Small Town Murder - #395 - Not Answering The Call Of Duty - Foster, Rhode Island

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

This week, in Foster, Rhode Island, a beef between some teens, and a local police officer kicks off a wild story that leads to multiple murders, prison, lawsuits, calls of small town corruption, and a huge outcry from horrified townspeople. The killings are so brutal that a bigger motive would seem to be in play, but that's not how it turns out. Instead, it looks to be a petty person, doing some very terrible murders! Will there be any justice, in the end? Along the way, we find out that Rhode Island used to be a lot different than it is, today, that a badge is not a license to perform your version of vigilante justice, and that under a car seems to be a phenomenal hiding place!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Foster, Rhode Island, some teenagers have a strange ongoing beef with a local police officer that ends in an unexpected bloodbath that leaves the whole area very freaked out. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another episode of Small Town Murder. Crazy as usual

and weird little small town stuff going on today, which is really what we have in the whole, the whole of the series. The catalog, yeah. Very quickly here,

top of the show, just want to say, Chicago, August the 12th, get down there. It's going to be our biggest show ever. Get your tickets live. It's going to be our biggest show ever. Get your tickets live.

It's going to be, we're going to do a special Chicago only live show. A one-off. No, we're not going to do it at any other venue at any other time this year. It's going to be a one-off show just for Chicago. So I don't care where you've seen it before. Get to Chicago and come see us. If you've been to other cities and you're like, I don't want to see the same show or whatever you'll see it there so come there shut up and give me murder dot com a lot of the other shows are sold out there are tickets left for dallas dc a couple

there philly atlanta charlotte so there are your options otherwise it is uh all sold out so thank you for buying those tickets you definitely also want want Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. You get all the bonus stuff there. A couple hundred bonus episodes to binge on there. Shit piles. Anybody. Shit piles. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get all of that.

And you get two new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder. And you get it all this week, which you're going to get for Crime and Sports. We're going to talk about in-ring boxing deaths. So, yes, what's a bad way to die? To be beaten to death in front of thousands of people would be my top of my list probably. Well, they've done everything they can to not make that happen.

They've hired personnel to make sure you don't. Happens anyway, though. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about a crazy documentary and the aftermath of it specifically we're going to talk about american hollow which was from like 1999 right they make the wild and wonderful whites of west virginia look like royalty they really do they are it's mudlick kentucky up in an abandoned holler they live and it's wild stuff and then murder springs from this later on that you can see happening in the documentary it's like you're going that guy's going to kill somebody and then he does so we'll talk all about that that is patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all that and you'll get a shout

out at the end of the show where jimmy will most certainly mispronounce your name even though he'd love to get it correct you also want to keep an eye out for your stupid opinions our new show is happening the show the show's done. We have it ready. It's all ready to go. We're just waiting on some business stuff that we have no control over. We just don't. We're waiting on paperwork and feeds and things that we have to go, okay, tell us when it's ready.

So we're waiting on it. We'll let you know as soon as it's ready, and we're going to put it out, and we cannot wait because the show's awesome, and we're excited for it. Your Stupid Opinions, get ready for it very soon. That said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show. It is. We're comedians. People will die in terrible ways, and there's going to be jokes as well.

But what we do about this to make it tasteful, for Christ's sake, we're not trying to be awful people here, is we go out of our way. We never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why is that? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a crazy-ass show. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, then this might not be a good pick for you.

But you've been warned. No complaining. You did this. You did this to yourself, damn this. You did this to yourself. You owe this to yourself. But for the rest of you that want to hear a wild story and some crazy stuff here, I think it's time, everyone, to sit back. Let's go. Let's all clear the lungs.

And let's all shout, Jimmy. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's go. Let's do this. We're going to Rhode Island this week. Oh, yeah.

Yes, up in tiny state, the tiniest state there is. I love it. It's so nice. It's a speck. Blink and you'll miss it, but it is pretty. You got a lot of rocky beaches. You got good Italian food there. It's a good place overall, Rhode Island. I don't mind it.

And this is Foster, Rhode Island. It is northern Rhode Island, very close to Connecticut, which I mean, everything is pretty close to Connecticut and Rhode Island. But specifically in relation to other things in Rhode Island, it's pretty damn close to Connecticut here. Tell me about how it got its name, because everything there is named Foster. Everything, I'm sure it's uh 32 minutes to providence so half hour to the capital there and then 46 minutes to barrington which was our last episode in rhode island which was smart people stupid murder and that was a fun one so i remember that this is in providence county okay in the main county area code 401 now originally

foster was settled a little history here in the 17th century by British colonists as a farming community. Is that right? Set aside for farming. In the year 1662, William Vaughn, Zachariah Rhodes, there's always a Zachariah mixed in back then. Sure. And everything that ever happened, there's a story.

It was like this guy, this guy, and Zachariah Thompson, you know, always. That's always what it is. And Robert Westcott purchased this land from the local Indian tribe as a large tract of land called West Quanaug, which not Quahog, family guy people, just Quanaug, which was bordering on Providence. Is it not Conaug? It might be. Yeah, I guess it would be called Quanaug. It might be Quanaug, right? Iog it might be called yeah i guess it would be called i call it konog yeah it'd be konog so it'd be like yeah like that uh the that purchase included nearly the whole southern half of the town of foster so that's kind of how this started first foster was just incorporated as a part of situate which is another town there uh and seven that's back in 1730 i mean

we're talking literally 300 years ago pretty much that was the you know formed the western part of that and it remained with that town until 1781 when it split off and made its own town and it was named for u.s senator theodore foster oh yeah is he from here? That would be really weird if he wasn't. He's from Texas. He's just... Indiana Senator Theodore Foster. We all just admire him so much from here in Rhode Island. I really like the guy.

I just watch him work. I go down to Washington. I see the guy. He really... He makes speeches. He's really voting. Jesus. That's some bitch is voting on bills, and I'm just...

You know what? Never misses a vote. We're naming this town Foster. We'll name it Teddy Foster if you got a problem with that. He's really voting. That's some bitches voting on bills, and I'm just, you know what? Never misses a vote. We're naming this town Foster. We'll name it Teddy Foster if you've got a problem with that. I'll make it even more specific. Tell it, you know. Don't mess with my love of T. Faust.

You know what I'm saying? In the 1920s, here's something you didn't expect to hear about when you're in a northern Rhode Island town. In the 1920s, clan was active in this area is that right yeah the ku klux klan was active here the largest clan rally ever held north of the mason dixon line that's not something you want not something not something you're bragging about we had the largest clan rally north of the mason dixon line um jesus not not exactly you don't want that on the sign coming in you know population this many the town of you know of dreams and then you know largest clan rally north of the mason dixon line it was held on old home day grounds in 1924 with 8,000 people there. Jesus. And a U.S. senator from Alabama, J. Thomas Heflin, was the main speaker, of course.

And apparently this was, for the whole first half of the 1900s, the first half of the 20th century, Foster had tons of racial issues like that. A lot of Klan activity and shit, but it doesn't seem to be that way now. No, yeah. They seem to weed that out. Yeah, a little bit here.

So reviews of this town. Let's find out what the people who live there and go there actually think of it. We don't know. We don't go here. How the fuck would I know? We have no idea. Reviews here. Here's one.

Five stars. Oh. All right. Beautiful is the first sentence. Beautiful. Like we said, Rhode Island, very pretty. It is very nice. Five-acre minimum zoning laws keep neighbors at bay.

All big, giant lots here. Really? But when you need them, they're there for you. Small town where most people know one another. People maintain their property. No litter. No crime. We'll talk about that.

Maybe there's no litter, no crime. Quiet, traditional New England town where people respect their country and their veterans. Active Boy Scout troop. That's not good. Okay. Old home days in July with a supper shed, 4-8 shows, tractor pulls, and a pie-eating contest. Very Americana. It's stand-by-me.

It's where the kid throws up in the pie eating contest and stand by me. This is where people want to raise their families the opposite of city life. Okay. This person really enjoys this whole deal here. Here's four stars. The properties around here are well taken care of. They all seem to have their unique differences with a good amount of land to match, keeping everyone fairly far from each other. That's awesome.

I love some space. I hate being on top of a neighbor like that. That's not great. Three stars. This is a little... I love when they start getting a little less enthusiastic here. Three stars. The food is not terrible. Okay, that's helpful. Is it a restaurant

or is it a town? None of the food. Although the potential of the quality rising seems slim, so it has no chance of improvement. Okay. It's not terrible, but it's certainly not going to improve. I get the notion from this area that things have been done this way for so long and show no sign of changing. 300 years, man it's they they make it they make it like that because that's how they like it there that's why if you it's not good enough that's fine but that's how they like it um three stars i really like the trash pickup

yeah i love having my trash picked up too it's great the towns around us don't have it but i love it okay yeah i i really enjoy not living in my own refuse. That's really fun for me. Not a fan of the trash burn pit out back. No, no. I enjoy you picking it up and taking it away, and I go, don't know where it's going, and I don't really care. And then I go back to my house. That's what I like.

Two stars. Oh, don't worry, James. It's going to end up in the Pacific Ocean. Oh, I'm sure. Someday I'll care, and it'll come back to bite me. But it's nice when you just see the truck taking away. You go, well, not my responsibility anymore. Right now, out of sight, out of mind.

There they go. Two stars. I currently live in a very secluded where. A secluded where? Oh, they forgot the word area, I feel like, in here. I currently live in a very secluded area where it is next to impossible to gather all needed items from the nearby stores. I think that's the sentence they were going for. If one wants to make a purchase, he or she must order it online or travel a minimum of 15 to 20 minutes to the nearest shopping center.

That's not 15 minutes. Isn't that bad? You just live outside of town. That's all. You're Isn't that bad? It's not. You just live. No, you just live outside of town. That's all. You're fine. You're good. Calm down. One star.

The town has more corruption than any other town in Rhode Island. Here we go. I will hear about some of it this week, too. They do not enforce town ordinances. Those bastards. Wow. I thought I bought my home in the country. My neighbor was allowed to install culverts in a gravel road. Bastards. Wow. I thought I bought my home in the country. My neighbor was allowed to install culverts in a gravel road.

Bastard. String him up. Let's go. Pitch forks and torches, everybody. There's a culvert. The man's affecting whether or not his property floods. This is bullshit. Bullshit.

I will not have it. What's he going to put in next? French drains? No, not on my watch. He doesn't maintain them and the road washes away every rainstorm. I now have water damage to

my property. I have asked the town to enforce their own ordinances, but Thrust won't. I don't know if that's a person, but Thrust won't because he's one of their friends. This is what this is. It's a small town. Everybody got their fingers in everybody else's pie.

One star. This is insane. This is the funniest one. One star. I hate snow. Well, you live in Rhode Island. New England at all. What I would suggest is moving to places with less snow jimmy when's the last time it snowed in phoenix uh it's been a minute it's been a minute

right because i mean yeah we're sitting in new york now but in phoenix you were just there was it was it snowing last week when you were there 15 20 years 20 years for what 15 minutes i think it snowed yeah Yeah. Go there. 11 seconds. He says, there is so much snow that I have been thinking of moving to California. Okay. Well, there you go. Well, be careful there, too, friend. Get down south and it'll snow less.

Perfect plan. Fuck off, then. Enjoy. Don't move to the Cascades. Let's stay out of the Sierra Nevadas, if you could. Yeah. People in this town, population 4,505. So it's a small town.

Oh, it's a little guy, yeah. Yeah. More males than females, which is not normal. And it's like almost 52% male, too. So that's not usual. And the median age is older, too. It's 48.7. Normally when it's older, you'll have more females.

So that's a little odd. 51% married. It's all kind of normal in the married stats, and it's kind of typical small-town USA. Race of this town, 94.7% white, 0.3% black, which is not surprising when you boast the largest Klan meeting north of the Mason-Dixon line in the history of the nation. That sounds very clan approved yeah 0.5 percent asian so not a lot of asian people either 0.9 percent hispanic so it's not a lot of it's pretty white you know it's rhode island uh religion in this town 54.4 percent religious and not going to shock you here 45.1 percent of the people here are Catholic. Catholics are, as we know, the Baptists of the North.

They are everywhere. And 1.2% Jewish. Holy. Finally, it's been so long. Hava Nagila. Hava Nagila. Hava Nagila. I don't know the words.

Hey, all right. We did it. I'm so happy. Let's see. Last election here, 60.5% of the people voted Democratic, 37.6% voted Republican, and 1.9% Independent. Unemployment rate here is slightly above the national average, but the median household income also a little bit higher.

Normally about $54,000 here. It's $80,720. Hell yeah. average but the median household income also a little bit higher normally about 54 000 here it's 80 720 so hell yeah pretty high uh cost you're gonna need it cost of living also high 100 is average here it's 132 in cost of living median home cost 447 800 a little high so if we've convinced you that you don't mind snow first of of all, that's number one in all. Or culverts, handmade culverts. We have for you the Foster, Rhode Island Real Estate Report. Okay, your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,460. Very high, right?

A little high. A little bit. A little high, but not as high as the home price is, actually. Here's a house, three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,200 square feet. And like we said, it's the five-acre rule they have here. So this is on 5.2 acres. All these houses are on a big property. There's no interior shots of this house, which is a little frightening, I'll be honest with you.

It's distressing for sure. The outside looks a bit abandoned, too. I'm not going to lie. This looks like somebody left it and, you know, you're going to, it's like a little Evil Dead-y. It's got a little Evil Dead vibe to it where there's definitely a Necronomicon in the basement. You should be careful. And there's a five-acre radius where your screams may die. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You could drive your car through the woods like ash and all that. It's all fine. $375,000 for this. That's not too bad. Not bad, because you're getting five acres. Yeah, that's a lot. It's not going to be cheap. Here's one six-bedroom, two-bath, 2,895 square feet.

So pretty big house, almost six acres, almost. It's built in 1800, and it looks like it's built in 1800. There's no interior shots, so that tells you a lot. And also, the roof doesn't look all that. It looks a little droopy. So there is like the roof doesn't look all that. It looks a little droopy. There's a wheelchair ramp that I certainly wouldn't put anybody that I cared about in a wheelchair up or down.

It's a little saggy. It looks like it would just collapse and this poor person would be dumped from their chair. It's not good. The house needs some updating, I would say, for the last 150 years. It's $380,000 for it, though. So it's good potential if it's not a complete disaster inside. Four-bedroom, four-bath, T-ball for each and every B-Hull. 3,168 square feet, six and a half acres. It's also built in 1800, but it's a little bit...

The inside is done like HGTV. Like they just flipped it and put the countertops and gray shit and all the newfangled crap, basically. All the new stuff. It's all there. All the pictures look superimposed, even though they're not. You know when they show you like, we're going to build this house, and they have pictures of what it will look like? It looks like that, but it's not. It's very strange. $625,000 for that house.

Not even a million dollars. Not even a million, but six and a half acres. It's move-in ready, but it's not. It's very strange. $625,000 for that house. Not even a million dollars. Not even a million, but six and a half acres. It's move-in ready, so there's that. It's pretty on the outside, too. It looks nice and scenic. Things to do here, not much, I'll be honest with you. Is that right? I mean, foster old home days, as we talked about.

There you go. Where they had the Klan rally on the grounds of this place. It's held every year during the last weekend in july it was started in 1904 by the old home association to raise funds to repair the town's buildings yeah uh the affair consisted of dinner served at tables that were wood put on like uh you know what are those things the horses the oh carriages no wagons oh no not an actual horse oh that you put wood on to saw it in the middle saw horses saw horses there you go jesus christ i said horses and saws i couldn't get those together um this is not my fault i'm not blaming you for this at all yeah i said horses and you went on the horse.

Oh, boy. I know some things on horses. Galloping down the horse trail there. I got this. Don't worry. Jimmy started neighing like crazy. I'm like, listen. He's like.

That's all I heard on the other end. This is a good boy. Give me an apple. Oh, he's a good boy. It's pet his head. So he had a clam bake. They had a clam bake, and they had all this shit going on there. They keep doing it anyway. The Vasa Day Swedish Festival.

I don't know what the fuck that's all about, but there's a flag ceremony, music and children's games, a sawdust pile. I don't know what that's all about. I bet you I know. They put stuff in it and send kids in it to find it. You betcha. There you go, kids. You gotta go sift through it. Inhale sawdust and joy.

Swedish meatball dinner as well. A lot of pickled stuff, pickled beets, pickled cucumbers, lingonberries. I don't know. Is that what the Swedes do? They pickle shit? Yeah, it's cold up there. You gotta pickle things for the winter. They last when you pickle them.

$2 gate fee for those not attending the dinner. Okay. Then finally, Flood Fest. Flood Fest. And I love how they're marketing here. Quote, we are wicked excited to bring Flood Fest back to the woods of Foster, Rhode Island. We're wicked excited. This is why I love New England, because they don't care that we make fun of them.

We're wicked excited. What do we care? We are. What do you want? We're wicked excited. You think that's a weird word to say? Have a dunk. Shut up.

Jesus Christ. For yet another year of amazing local music. This is a local music festival. Oh, boy. With musical backgrounds ranging from country, rock, blues, funk, and soul,

we've got you covered. All right. Except that it all sucks would probably be the only thing that they didn't do. You want to hear all of these genres eat shit together? Yeah.

Want them to all suck? You want to hear a metal band that was in someone's garage follow a fucking weak jazz quartet of four grandfathers? Let's do it come on down together here uh we can't wait to bring you another show jam-packed with music friends and summer fun uh at nine in the morning by the way this starts uh jabba walkie comes on that's the opening band

a single one or not not all of them oh no i'm Jabberwocky is the closer at 9 p.m. Oh. Is it just one? One Jabberwocky? It's a single one? But the walkie is like Milwaukee. Two E's? That's how they spell it.

Yeah, walkie. And it's Jabberwocky. Yeah. One word. It's one person? There's no Z? No, no, no. Just one.

Because there are Jabberwockies, and they dance. Yeah, yeah. one word it's one word it's one person there's no z no no no just one because they're because they're java walkies and they dance yeah yeah but i think what they're saying is their local one this is one guy that lives here yeah it's kind of like you're a member of the utah jazz you can't be a jazz on your own but together you can make jazz i suppose maybe that's what they're talking about i don't know i'm trying to figure it out myself it's a java walkie that does a java walkies thing yeah that's something some something to do with that well at 3 p.m james and the giants come on uh-huh so there's that tree nope i was gonna say they leave the peach tree behind can't take it on the road with them at 4 p.m tai chi funk squad comes out which that sounds like a nightmare uh five uh nick bossy and the northern roots

come on there um six o'clock rat ruckus comes on oh one t though i was hoping it was a rat cover band that would be great no this is fucking this is way worse this is gonna be a dude with a stand up bass and they're like trying to jam like fucking swing music that's what it sounds like. Well, what about 7 o'clock when Rumble Cats come on? I think that's what they're going to be doing. Feels like the same guys. And then 8 o'clock, Northeast traffic. And then 9 o'clock, closing it all out, the aforementioned Jabba Walkie. One.

One. One. One. And the tickets for this are $25 fucking dollars. How dare you? Twenty five. If you show up, they should thank you for coming. These are, I assume, bands that need their family members

to show up at gigs still. So how dare you charge $25 for this? That better come with food or something. Tickets will be mailed out two weeks before the event, too, to make it more inconvenient. There's no digital tickets. You want me to pay in advance for this shit? In advance. Mail me out the tickets, and then I have to not lose them.

So we're going to do all this stuff here. And then I'll feel like a piece of shit that just wasted $50 if I don't bring her with me. Well, if you show up, you'll still feel like you wasted $50. But at least you'll have done something that day. You know what I mean? One way or another, I'm going to feel like I wasted money. So crime rate in this town. Yeah.

But I did see a java walkie. One. Tickets also family friendly as well, they say here. So I guess there's not going to be live sex acts on stage between. I guess James and the Giants aren't James and a bunch of huge guys with big cocks. James and the Giant cocks. That are going to have a huge orgy on stage. So it's family friendly.

I was worried about that, too. When I saw that, I'm like, oh, man, it's going to be filthy in here, I bet. James is going to be glazed in front of the kids. It's going to gonna be wild man wild all dogs and pets must remain on a leash no matter what so there's that now crime rate in this town they did say in that review low crime let's find out property crime about half the national average so very low yeah very low and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is less than half the national average.

Very safe. Very safe town, kind of out in the middle by itself. And it really can't be changed that much because there's not a lot of towns that have only five-acre lots where there's tons of crime. Right. It's just a lot of walking to do that much crime. It's just not a lot of gathering places there's not a lot of room for this town to grow either to get more people there because you've got a five acre fucking curfew yeah on your building that's it so you're not if you're kind

of landlocked there and you're in a very small town in a very small in the smallest state in the smallest state ever it's yeah goddamn it's like Luxembourg over there. There's a lot of One Direction, for Christ's sake. Yeah, you're trapped in there. So that all said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say, Jimmy? Let's go. Yow-yow.

Okay, let's do this. Let's go back to about 1993, shall we? Okay, yeah. Let's just go like opening day 1993. Oh, yeah. Start there, beginning of 93. And let's talk about a couple of kids running around. Well, not kids, really, teenagers.

First off, Frank Sherman. He is 16, and his brother Charles Sherman III, who is his older brother, who is 17. So there are a couple of local guys. There are a couple of local guys, and from what I can gather here, there are a couple of nice guys, kind of fun-loving, kind, nice guys who don't really have any drive. Like the old people would say, you don't have any drive in life. Look at you. You're a bum. Teachers would say they don't apply themselves.

That's what they'd say. They don't apply themselves.'s what they'd say they don't apply themselves just kind of how they are you know what i mean didn't give a shit about school wasn't what they were into um in 93 or the beginning of that year charles was a 17 year old sophomore which is a bad sign oh yeah that's not great then yeah you don't want that and his brother frank is a 16-year-old freshman. Again, a little old for that. That's two years behind also. That's also two years behind. So obviously their school has not been a real driving force in either of their lives.

The two of them are going to be 20-year-old seniors walking. They're getting through it is what they're doing. They're the kids with beards as when they're a freshman. That's a little weird. They both ended up just dropping out of Pontagansett Regional High School. They just said, fuck it. What's the point? You can't be a few weeks shy of legally drinking beer being handled at a high school diploma.

You can't. When you're driving to school your first day as a freshman, that's weird. At high school, you have to realize, I'm behind. This isn't going to work. When am I going to? Driving to high school orientation isn't a good thing. Fucking beer cans going out the window as you pull in. REO speed wagon blaring out of it.

MGD cans flying left and right. Leaving freshman year day, your first day, and going to your job is weird. It's strange. It's not normal. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band

called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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They went there anyway. They dropped out and they ended up moving. They were living with their father for a while, but then their father died. So, yeah, Charles Sr. died. We'll talk about that. So they ended up instead, or actually he was Charles Jr.

This Charles III is this Charles. Yeah, so they ended up, he ended up dying, and they ended up moving in back with their mother. Their mom's name is Charlotte, and they lived with her, and they never enrolled in school at this new address again. They all moved to 188 Main Street in Burrillville, and they never re-enrolled in anything. So what they were into, it's not like they sat around the house with their thumbs up their asses.

They weren't like that. They were really into cars. The brothers are, I mean, as hardcore gearheads as you want to hear. All they want to do, any cars, race cars, this car, that, all they want to do is fix cars, put cars together, restore cars. And they're really good at it, too. That's the thing. There's money to be made. Oh, there's money to be made.

Yeah, if you have your own shop or something, you can do really well. And especially if you have a specialty, you can do something like that. So they were all about it, though. One of their teachers said, quote, that they both lived for taking engines apart and putting them back together. Loved it. Yeah, that's called meth. Well, yeah, but they put it together correctly with no extra parts. So that's what a meth guy would love to do.

But they're like, like fuck where did this pump go everybody knows that guy that that blows your mind with how fucking good they are and pulling that shit apart putting it back together and it runs better yep they just know what they're doing yeah some people can see things like that you know like beethoven could see a piano they could see that you know what i mean they understand timing and gears and gear ratio and all that shit. It's fascinating. It just fits them. So one of their teachers, Michael Chimora, let's hope he's not related to the other one here.

Old Chewy here says that Charles was the type of person, quote, who when you needed a car fixed, you would trust Charlie to do it and he wouldn't overcharge you. Oh. He was doing paid mechanical work for teachers. Well, why the fuck can't he pass school, for Christ's sake? That's because he's interested in that. Yeah. That's it. That's all he cares about.

He's not doing homework. He's going home working on cars. That's what he likes. Frank here, his brother, was, they said he was the more gregarious one out of the two. They were both real into cars and all that, but Charles was a little quieter. He kept his head under the hood, and Frank would tell you all about it. Yeah, while he was wrenching, though, too, at the same time.

And they said that, quote, you knew Frank was around. This is what Chimura, the teacher, said. You knew Frank was around while Chuck was more in the background. So they said that's how it was. Frank was also into carpentry and electronics courses at school too he was into anything mechanical or anything fixing building he's smart guy smart guy but cars are their number one love and that's what they are like a thousand percent all about

just cars and their father and it makes sense too when you care about their background their father died when he was 49 by the way what was he doing he died well he was a race car driver i was gonna say he was probably drag racing he raced the cars that the kids would build at the speed him and the kids would build cars and they'd race them at the different speedways in massachusetts and connecticut so that's pretty cool you know what i mean like They had a thing going on with their dad and then dad died, but they continue obviously to be into the cars and following in with that.

He didn't wreck a car they built, did he? No, not that we know of. Maybe. He might have. They got mad at him. And that's not what killed him? From what I understand, there was no foul play suspected here in the death. It wasn't like they were beaten to death with a wrench after.

Or no flaming top fuel dragster that exploded because a kid didn't plug the fuel line in right. Well, you know, that'll happen with an injector. And he just keeps wiping down a wrench with a rag and walks away. And you're like, what the fuck? That's terrifying. Did he just wipe fingerprints off that wrench? and walks away and you're like, what the fuck? That's terrifying. That's your dad. Did he just wipe fingerprints off that wrench? He goes, yeah, that'll happen with an injector.

Wipe, wipe, and just turns and walks. Cops with notebooks out going, we're suspicious of that, right? That's his son. That didn't seem right, right? So that's what they're into now they have a there's a guy named arthur wilson he owns a garage called wilson's garage oh good good very creative but also fitting fitting and uh they worked on their cars the boys the sherman boys in arthur wilson's garage okay that was his deal he and he would ar, Arthur Wilson was a friend of the dad and raced with the dad for many years.

They were all kind of in this little local racing circles. Give the boys a place. That's nice. Well, yeah. Mrs. Sherman, the mom, you know, their mom after dad died, would pay Arthur Wilson $500 a month. Oh, so it's not give the boys. It's make money off the boys.

It's rent, though, because they're renting out two garage bays for the kids to just be able to work on cars there all the time. So the mom said, look, all you guys want to do is work on cars, and you actually do it for money and stuff. What if I rent you two bays of this garage so you can just do car

shit all the time and you won't be jerking off, basically? And the mom said that it was, quote, just to keep them out of trouble. Just take that, do something productive and constructive with your time rather than doing nothing, which is good. She basically rented them an office to start a business out of is what she did. Right. Exactly. She gave them a brick and mortar to open their bullshit. She opened a little office in the back of another office is what they got so it's nice so they were really

really so into that one guy who owns a restaurant here a guy named buddy length he owns a restaurant in killingsley connecticut which is just over the state line yeah foster he said that they would come in these boys they're both about six foot tall 200 pounds big kids you know and they'd come in he said just permanent always had the grease stains on their hand that would never come off because it's they were always just under the hood you can use that hand wash oh yeah that smells like it smells so good oh i love oh i love the way that shit smells oh the super orange is my favorite one, but that white stuff is so gross, and it never gets the black. Man.

You have the cracks in your skin. Oh, no. I can't get out. You'll always have a black hand. Man, my dad had the, and it's like, yeah, in the garage up on the wall. My dad had that. With a little squeeze thing on it that dispenses it, but nobody ever used it. You always have the top open and you scoop your fingers in it.

And you scoop. So I remember he'd bust that thing open. I'd be like, oh, yeah. It smelled so fucking good. I'd want to get some shit on my hand so I could scoop it and then be like, yeah, go watch it. I love that. I like the smell of gasoline.

That's why. I always did. I always loved the smell of gasoline. The super orange smells like oranges. Yeah. And it's got like grit in it. And yeah, you barely have to use water with it. It just comes right off.

I want the gasoline shit. I want the gasoline stuff. Give me that stuff. I'd use the gritty stuff and then the lava bar and then my hands would be bright red. And then when the pink would go away, they'd still be black. They'd go, oh, look, that's better. Oh, no, there's all crack. And the crack of every wrinkle in my hand, every fucking line I have has grease in it.

Perfect. I about pulled all my skin off, all the skin except for the grease-stained part. Well, the grease is holding it to your body it's good it's helping so this guy says they'd come into the restaurant grease stained hands and sit down and eat like monsters which he didn't mind he's selling them food he said they would polish off this is awesome they would each polish uh each polish off 60 chicken wings and a pitcher of soda my god that's so many chicken that's some eating it would just take so long to eat that many chicken wings 60 i get so tired of dealing with the bones i'd be like i'm just can i just bite something it's just so exhausting five dozen

man that's that's a lot of wings yeah if i eat 20 i'm like that was a lot of wings three times that's a shitload and a pitcher of soda so that's that's how they got down though a dozen's not only exhausting but then it's like you've you've got it all over the place it's it's a mess everywhere you gotta clean up now you're already covered in grease what's the difference it's just another layer to put on there a tasty layer at least 120 bones j bones 120 bones can you imagine eating like that that's that's that's that's wild pitcher of soda the pitcher that's well i drink my soda by the pitcher that's all just put it right up to your mouth by that big handle and drink it out of it that's too much soda 84 ounces is that what that is what are you a giant like that's it's like two

quarts that's so much it's i don't even know how much a quart is, but to drink two of them seems like a lot with one meal, right? It's too many. It's too many. It's at least like a, where are we in the liters with quarts then? How about that? That's probably three liters. I'll bet it is. No, three?

It's got to be. Three is those big, remember the three liter bottles of soda they used to sell in grocery stores? No, they used to sell the three liters in grocery stores in like the 80s. I swear that's a picture. And it even had a fatter mouth on them like the cheap brands my grandmother used to buy them. And then she'd have the same sodas in her cabinet for like a year and a half that had been opened 12 times. They were the flattest things in the world. And that's what you'd have to drink.

That was good. 12 times. They were the flattest things in the world. That's what you'd have to drink. There's soda in the cabinet. Oh, in the hot cabinet that's been opened when I was here for Christmas. Thank you. Thanks, Grandma. It was opened in 91. This is terrific. Thank you. Yes, no, it's great orange soda now. It's wonderful. No fizz at all when you open the bottle. It says orange soda on the label. Yeah, that's what it was it was a shop right brand she used to buy a big three liters of shop right brand back in the day three liters three liters

because that was cheap you could get the shop right brand was like 79 cents for a three liter and it was terrible soda too it was awful it was gritty and nasty it wasn't good soda at all but it was worse when it was flat yeah yeah there's no costco business plan is sell it in bulk just unload the shit just sell a big giant vat of shit for no money they'll buy it so these uh these two boys as we talk about have you know they're they're good-natured kids no one's got any problems with them they keep to themselves all they do is kind of hard workers with the big appetite they have big appetite they eat they hang out they do car shit that's it january 9th 1993 okay charles is stopped by a police officer yeah in his car for some traffic for some traffic

infractions um here so uh he is stopped by a cop named robert g sabeta jr so he got a junior pulling over of the third oh boy lots of bad stuff could happen here um it's may 1969 when is when he's born robert sabeta jr so he's a young guy at this point i mean he's 20 24 not even 24 he's 23 so young kid pulling over another 17-year-old here. And Robert Sabetta, he graduated from the same high school those two dropped out of. He graduated in 87. He grew up on Cucumber Hill Road in Foster. And he had moved to Cranston, North Carolina.

Or North Carolina. Rhode Island. North Carolina. Why would North Carolina come out? Makes no sense whatsoever. Nowhere near has nothing to do with anything. I don't even know if there is a Cranston, North Carolina. It's not like it was Charlotte, Rhode Island. And I said, Charlotte, North Carolina, that would make sense. So the principal there, Richard C. Oswald said that Sabetta was a serious minded student, very friendly,

never in trouble. A lot of people describe him as kind of meek and quiet. That's a cop. Meek comes up a lot. A guy who is a cop. Yeah, meek in high school. Yes, some of them are like that. That's a lot of, it's like

a percentage of the, and cops know those guys too like oh that's the guy who's you're not gonna push me around anymore you're that guy yeah they know that guy i'm gonna pull my bully over and give him a big ticket that's what it is exactly now his dad is a was a cop too okay so he this is kind of a family thing so he's a second generation cop which is a big deal in the northeast a lot of a lot of that in Boston and New York. There's third and fourth generations of cops now. That's the whole thing.

So he, Robert, had worked for the police department for a couple of years before he got on as a patrolman too. So he's been with the force since like 89, since right after a year and a half after high school. First, he was a dispatcher and that's where they start him out i guess that makes sense so you understand how everything works yeah you know the lingo you know what you're listening to you know what you're being told and where you're told to go and what you're supposed to say what's happening before you get to see it that's probably for the best hear how the experienced officers say things and do things then he was here uh oh God, there's so much blood.

You don't want to see, oh, my God, there's so much blood. Yeah, yeah. Oh, if you go, ew, gross, and put the microphone down and go, I don't want to talk to him. He's talking about blood and things, and it's disgusting. It's probably not good for your future job prospects. You're definitely not going to be a homicide detective, we'll say. Hope you like this job because you're going to do this one forever.

For a long time. So he was a reserve officer and dispatcher from 88 to 89. Did all of that from 88 to 89 through 91 and then became a full-time officer in 91. So it's been about a year and a half since he's been on the force full-time

here and he's known here's a woman who manages the local extra mart, you know, with the X. You see those in Phoenix, the extra mart. It's like outside of a gas station. I think they, like AM, PM kind of a thing. She said that Sabetta used to come in at the end of his midnight shift to order a carton of autocrat coffee milk and a pastry. Coffee milk? A carton of autocrat coffee milk and a pastry. Coffee milk?

A carton of coffee milk? There's got to be a comma there, right? Coffee, milk, and a pastry? No, there wasn't. It's a carton of autocrat coffee milk and a pastry. That must be like... What the fuck is this? It's like half and half?

You don't just drink creamer, right? That's what I mean. Did he order half and half and just start drinking it with a pastry walking out the door? Like my cousin used to do. What are you, the dude? Didn't he drink it in the aisle too? I have a cousin that used to do it at his christening. It's fucking hilarious.

At his christening, he went around. Just drinking coffee creamer? It's at the Knights of Columbus in Beacon, New York, you know, and all that shit. And there's all these tables and everything. He went around to every single table. Every table had the whole, the bowl in the middle with all the half and half and all that and the sweet and low. He took every fucking creamer, every half and half, and downed them like shots. He was on like his sixth table before his mom caught him and was like what are you doing like

you're you're gonna get sick i can't imagine what his shits look like that night they probably he probably exploded or never she's still waiting to shit i'm not sure my daughter used to stick her canine through the the vanilla one at the table and then just suck on it suck at least that's one yeah he was going around like oh he was he was like it looked like he was an alcoholic that was like i need a drink and broke out of a fucking out of a facility and ransacked a closed bar and would just be like that's what he was doing he was tearing him up ransacked a hotel yeah that had all the rooms open and drank the mouthwash. All of it. I saw him at one point.

He went to one table. This is, I think he figured out a system toward the end before his mom caught him. The last two tables, he took them all out. I just watched the whole time because I thought it was hilarious. It's gross. He took all the tops off and lined them all up and then fucking shot them like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang in a row. Yeah. Like machine gun style.

Because at first he was doing one at a time. I guess he was like, this is inefficient. I need a better way. This is not quenching my thirst. Yeah, that's probably how his mom caught him, like doing eight consecutive fast shots. She was like, what is he doing? So I don't know what he's drinking, but that's weird.

So she said that, you know, I talk to him all the time. Seemed like a nice guy. He's a good guy. Everything's good. Just can't handle coffee. Can't handle, doesn't want any coffee. And is very lactose tolerant. He tolerates the shit out of some lactose, boy.

Man, his constitution for lactose is something that I aspire to. So anyway, they pull. Sabetta pulls Sherman over. Junior pulls the third over. It's for a minor motor vehicle infraction. He made a turn without a signal or some shit like that. And while he was doing that, he pulled him out of the car and searched him as well and confiscated a knife that charles was carrying as he said it was too big for charles to have this knife so he took the knife

away from him which christ i can't tell you how many times that happened as a kid that was normal he's a mechanic you kind of yeah like a knife is so important when you're working on things but we don't know if he had like a rambo knife on his side or something. You don't need a Bowie knife to fix a transmission. Yeah. I don't know if he had like a little knife like you'd have to open packages. A lot of guys we know carry a knife on them to prove, oh, I got

that. My father, I've never seen him. Oh, I got whips it right out. Some psychotic ocean fish descaling knife. Yeah. We'd have no idea. It's like, yeah, you're descaling deep water bone fish with this. What are we doing? Some giant bent blade knife.

Big anglers with fucking lights dangling off the top. Is that what you're using this for? So he confiscates the knife. So it's a cop confiscating a knife from a 17-year-old kid. Seems like not a huge deal, correct? If I was a kid, I'd go, ah, shit, he got the knife. Thank God he didn't find that weed I have hidden over here, though. That's what I'd take it as one of those if I was his age.

It's a little victory. Apparently, though, the kids took another route with this, and they were, for some reason, I don't know what the point of this was. I don't know what they're thinking here. But later that same night, there's a car drove by the police station with its lights off a few times. That's not suspicious. Drove back and forth. So that was, yeah, they looked at that as very suspicious. And so they didn't like that at all.

is very suspicious and so they didn't like that at all and the police chief said a car came by the police station turned its lights off then drove away and then came back uh the officers went to see if any cars were damaged and what they were doing there maybe they were out fucking with cars police cars slashing tires or something it's your lights off you don't want to be seen that's obvious that's uh yeah why don't you want to be seen and we'll go in front of the police station right probably a bad idea so sabetta he gets in his car sabetta jr here gets in his car and pulls the car over oh down he finds the car and pulls it over a little bit down the road and around a corner here now when he pulls the car over it's frank sherman in the car. Hey, just Charles brother. Yeah.

It's Charles brother. It's his little brother. It's his brother, Frank. So it's like, OK. And everybody knows everybody. So he knows he's his brother. And he's like, what the fuck are you doing driving by the police station? Is it because I pulled your brother over?

And, you know, there he thinks they were looking for revenge on him now. This is better, which seems fair. They don't know. Plausible. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's plausible, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, driving by, what was the plan? To go in and ask for the knife back or to try to steal it back,

Ocean's Eleven style, you know, break in through a vent? Or was it like, you know, maybe we'll vandalize one of their cars. That asshole took my knife. Fuck him. You know what I mean? I don't know what the plan is, to be honest with you, because they're teenagers and I don't, you know, remember the ideas we could come up with when you're 16 right yeah it's try following their

logic it's impossible good luck it doesn't make sense there's there's things that are there's a lot of switches being crossed and turned on and off at the same time and wires that are messed up they have no income yet somehow find themselves pregnant sometimes so best of luck keeping up with their logic. It's impossible. I had a friend who, when you turn the radio off, the headlights would pop up on his car. That's a teenager sometime. You're like, there's an electrical malfunction here somehow.

I turned the radio off, and the headlights popped up out of the car. Yeah, but that's how I know how to turn my headlights on. Exactly. But that's a teenage brain, because I remember having that brain. So Sabetta pulls the car over, and frank is taken out of the car and and sabetta's got another cop with him there's a you know a couple cops there and people can see this happening i guess some words are exchanged some sabetta's saying some shit to frank and frank isn't as conciliatory as uh as as the cop would like him to be yeah and some shit talking goes on back and forth and we don't know exactly what the exact words were to exchange back and forth but at some point Sabetta takes his flashlight out and bashes

Frank in the mouth with it and knocks his two front teeth out well you can't do that can't do that to a 16 year old especially can't do that to Can't do that to a 16-year-old, especially. Can't do that to anybody, but to a 16-year-old, I don't think that's department regulation. If someone gets mouthy, take your flashlight out and bash them in the mouth with it, I don't think is probably what they taught him at the academy. Unless he told you that he was just about to go rape your family as soon as you let these cops off. I was driving by because I was hoping your daughter would be out there so I could finger.

Would be the only way I could understand that maybe that would be. A flashlight to the teeth? That's aggressive. That's extreme. In the mouth? Not even a punch. He couldn't even. Something that certainly removes teeth.

Yeah. Yeah. The cops carry the big three D cell mag lights. Those are big, giant son of a It's a heavy son of a bitch. Yeah, they are a weapon. They're a second nightstick. So he apparently knocks out his two front teeth, too. I mean, this is like, that's a problem.

He's got to get that fixed. Now there's dental bills involved. And think about, too, if you get your front teeth knocked out, how fucked up your lip is and everything else. There's blood everywhere. Blood all over. So bad. Yeah, I mean, this is a mess in the street this is in the street like this isn't like you know in a back alley somewhere it's just people are seeing that so this leads to this was at night by the next morning there's a full-blown internal police investigation of sabetta and this incident because

as soon as frank sherman gets home his mom takes one look at him and goes, what the fuck happened to you? Yeah. Who jumped you? And he said, oh, I got pulled over and the cop did this to me. And the mother said, oh, hell no, and called the cops right away, called the police chief, got him on the phone. So immediately there's an internal investigation. And it leads to Sabetta being suspended without pay the next day or with pay, with pay the next day. So the very next day he's suspended with pay.

Get him off the street. The chief ordered that Sabetta turn in his service revolver and other equipment that he might have, you know, any police stuff that you can use. So Sabetta shows up at the police station with a holster and a belt, but no gun. Well, where's that at? They're like, yeah, the holster is really probably the least working thing we're concerned about. Honestly, this cow's dead. It's not a threat to anybody. It's like showing up with bullets like, well, yeah, but where do they go in now? Let's be honest here. So he shows up with no gun. So the chief chief could tell went to with Sabetta to his home to retrieve the gun.

And it was weird because Sabetta told him to, like, the guy was going to come in, and Sabetta told him, no, I don't want you to come in. I'll go get it for you. I don't know if he was just kind of pissed off at him because he was suspended. As well, Sabetta gets – he's super pissed off that they suspended him. He's angry about that. He's angry with the department. You don't want me in your house.

You're not in my house. Exactly. Yeah. I'm not good enough to be on the force because you want my gun. You can wait for it on the porch. So March of 1993, two months later, he's actually arraigned in superior court. Yeah. Sabetta is with orders to stay away.

They had restraining orders to stay away from Frank Sherman and any other witnesses leading up to the grand jury proceedings. And the chief said, though, he didn't seem angry. He wasn't angry or like, oh, those motherfuckers. He just seemed upset, he said. He seemed very frustrated. And I think it's embarrassing, too, because dad was a cop. Dad's a cop, and then you're a cop, and you're a fuck-up. And you're new. You're a new new cop and you're already fucking it up if you're presbolooski and you're embarrassing

everybody that's it's not good you know it's a wire reference for people out there so it's cops and alleyways yeah you're embarrassing valchek it's not going to work out so the chief said quote he knew he was in trouble and his job was on the line. Yeah. Absolutely. Two weeks later, he's indicted by a grand jury for assault with a dangerous weapon. That's bad. It's a felony. Yeah.

It's a felony charge. And he's suspended without pay now. Okay. Now it's really bad. So he's super fucking obviously not a happy camper right now. Sure. He's mad at everybody. And the kids are pissed off at him sure i don't know if charles is still mad at his knife about his knife but he's sure everyone sure is hell pissed off that this guy bashed frank's fucking teeth in

with a yeah with a goddamn flashlight that's uncalled for frank's missing the most important teeth he has yes yes he looks like unless you're great at hockey that's not a good look if you're great at hockey you can fuck supermodels with that look you're fine but that's the only time you can do that right as if you're like an eastern european guy who makes 14 million dollars a year scoring goals you pop a retainer out that has a tooth on it and it's a party trick it's everybody laughs you slurp spaghetti through it and everyone cracks up laughing all that money and all you lost was one tooth that's amazing and then you kiss your hot wife and yeah fucking skate off into the sunset so april 13th, 1993. All right.

Here we go. Frank and Charles, the brothers, are at Wilson's Garage, their normal place. We'll call it their place of business because that's what they're doing there. Call it their job. Their job, even though a lot of times they're just working on their own stuff. But still, this is where they work out of. And they have a couple of their cousins there as well. Everybody's – it's at nighttime.

Everybody's just hanging out, 9, 10 o'clock at night working on cars. The garage after hours is the coolest place to be. It's so fun. Because it feels bright because it's dark outside. Yeah. Lights are very bright in the garage. And you're doing something that isn't your job. This is like the fun thing that you

want to do. This is the project that you're like, watch us put this fucking blower on this fucking microwave. It's going to be crazy. Crickets and socket wrenches. Those noises together go well. It's so fun. So much beer happening. Cricket, cricket, cricket.

Yeah. Beer's just hanging out. They're just hanging out bullshitting. They're working on their cars. It's Wilson's Garage and Auto Sales. It's on Route 6 in Foster. And they have their cousins there. I don't know who.

They say they're their cousins, but I mean't know who. They say they're their cousins, but, I mean, who knows how close, if they're actually related. It could be a, you know, this is my fourth cousin eight times removed or whatever the fuck. But here are the cousins. Michael Clausen, he's 21 years old. He's there hanging out. Also, Daryl Drake, another cousin of theirs. He's 18 years old. Daryl is super into cars again.

He's cars, cars, cars, cars. He's currently, Daryl, enrolled in the adult education program in Cranston and is just about to receive his GED, high school equivalency diploma, if you're not from here. So there you go. He's an assistant manager. Oh, no, he's not. He's a stock boy. Sorry. He works at Bed Bath. Oh, no, he's not. He's a stock boy. Sorry. He works at Bed Bath & Beyond.

Well, not anymore, he doesn't. In Cranston. Not anymore. Oh, no, it just says the Bed & Bath store. So maybe that's not Bed Bath. They didn't get their Beyond yet at that point. They're still working on Beds & Bath. Yeah, they had their Bed & Bath.

And then they were like, somebody came in in like 96 and they were like guys i got an idea okay self-kitchen aid too we can sell overpriced shit for every room in the house bed bath and beyond yes people will pay that much for that and spatulas watch out and they'll pay 14 for a spatula that melts the second you put it in a pan. They will. At least for a little while anyway, and then we'll all spectacularly crumble. We'll put not dishwasher safe, real fucking small on it. Yeah.

So it comes out looking like a pretzel. People are going to love it. They'll come back and buy another one. And then we'll sell them loofahs that fall apart. We'll still, yeah, that's what we'll do. Overpriced comforters. Mwahaha.

So they said, here's an assistant manager from the Bed and Bath store in Cranston where Drake works as a stock boy, said, quote, he's an excellent worker and has never brought any problems to the job. Everyone knows he takes a lot of pride in his car, a Camaro. Oh.

Yeah, a Camaro. A Camaro. And they also have Jeremy Bullock over here, who's a cousin slash friend. He's 19 years old. He's, again, super into cars. These guys are all hardcore gearheads here. I mean, everybody in this family. He's a big guy, Jeremy.

6'4", 350. Holy. Big old boy, Jeremy is, yes. What's his truck look like? I want to know how many wings he can polish off. That's what I want. Talk to the restaurant guy in there. If he walks, if all three of them or this whole crew walks in, you go, do we have enough chicken?

You start freaking out because you could run out oh my god he's here oh no all right did you did you special honor is there enough jesus so he's 19 jeremy um and uh he was at he goes to the cranston regional vocational technical school yeah that's where he went to school and And the guy, the principal there said, even though he's that big, he's always a gentleman. For a guy his size, he's as gentle as a lamb. Uh-huh. Nice guy, gentle guy. His automotive teacher said that he's a very popular kid who spends most of his time, pretty

much all of it, working on engines. And he said he's a nice kid. Nice kid. I like him a lot. So there you go. He also graduated from high school last year high school this is extra shit this is just yeah yeah school yeah he's going to an extra mechanic school to get some certification to it helps to get jobs if you got to get transmission certified or whatever you can see certified yeah yeah they

have all those different jobs it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide

when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen

alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So, yeah, he lives in Foster there on Mount Hygieia Road, graduated from school.

Now, the garage, Wilson's, it's a white cinder block garage with two service bays two overhanging doors big garage doors and a detached office next door so not connected you know normally it's the garage and you walk through that little office yeah that they make you sit in watching maury while while they're fucking this is even worse they're like you stay here i'll be back then they close the door and it. They're like, you stay here, I'll be back. Then they close the door. And it's a pillbox and you just go, uh oh. They walk out. And you just sit there.

Hope they come back soon. So that's what this is like. So that night, they're all doing it. Now Charles Sherman, he is who had his knife taken, he's flipping through a magazine. He's seated in Clausen here, Michael clausen the 21 year old cousin michael clausen's 1984 mustang is there so one of the little fox bodies that is yeah one of

those little boys those were the five o's were nice but the other ones were not the regular ones were shit boxes you can make the hatchback they were you can make them a fucking sleeper. They were so light, you can make them fast as shit. They didn't come that way, though. They were shit boxes. Yeah, it's a garbage car. They were kind of an economy car at that point. Otherwise, they were garbage. It's jacked up on blocks in a service bay there, and Charles is sitting there flipping through a magazine sitting in the car. Yeah.

One of the seats. Now Michael Clausen said that he'd removed the engine and transmission from the Mustang and Clausen was under the car taking measurements so he could put the transmission back in. Okay. So that's what he was doing. He's got a new transmission. He's not got the factory one.

He's going to make this thing a fucking rocket ship. That's what they do, these guys. And they like building fast ones and take them to the tracks and they also help build cars for racers and stuff i mean this is what they're into their dad was into it so that's what they're doing uh michael clausen under the car he could see he said charles reading the magazine through a hole in the floor where the gear shift lever went. So, yeah, the shifter, it's a five-speed, and you can see, look right up through it there. So I guess Daryl Drake had been trying to fix the stereo in his Chevy Camaro and was standing behind his car in a different part of the bay, and Frank Sherman was at work on a stock car for somebody else, somebody else's stock car.

Yeah, he's working on a stock car on the other side of the bank. Yeah. So we got three different cars being worked on. One dude's reading a magazine. They're living, this is the life they want. This is, they're, couldn't be more fucking thrilled. There are definitely calendars of big-breasted women on this wall. Right next to that

big thing where you, oh, no, no, no. Very not HR-friendly. No, no, no, no. The office is detached, babe. Hang them up. Hang them up. This is like my cousins in Pennsylvania.

I went in their basement when I was like seven. I was like, whoa, that's what a vagina looks like. Wow. That was the real risque calendars that were dual calendars that had like actual pussy on them yeah whoa they just put up like hustler centerfolds on the wall that's what they'd put up just no in their basement downstairs where they had the pool table and shit so they'd be up all over the place and fucking they were crazy people and then i would go down there to seven-year-old and I was like, wow.

You're going to play some nine ball? Well, not really. Wow. I'm going to look at this wall now. Yeah. Like, well, he figured out I'm straight. That's cool. Anyway, at least I know what I am.

I don't care either way. Could have gone whatever, but that's getting me happy. You just tested it. I'd like to see more of that. happy so yeah he just tested it like to see more of that so uh he that's the scene that's going on here anyway three different cars a mustang a camaro and a stock car tits everywhere hey it's great yeah come look at this check this out what this dude did to a 47 ford you know and they're all going back and forth and everything. And then Clausen says around midnight, the Shermans, the Sherman boys bring their black lab dog to the garage to have a dog run around. God damn it.

This place. Oh, man. Beers in the fridge. You think any fridge beers? Yeah, for sure. Oh, absolutely. And there's a black. Is there a black dog?

Is there a black lab? It's a black lab. Yeah, because sure. Oh, absolutely. And there's a black, is there a black dog? Is there a black lab? It's a black lab. Yeah, because that little guy, grease doesn't show up on him. You could pet him. You're not going to get a yellow lab. He'd be covered in shit all the time. Just pet him. You pet him there.

His name's Chocolate also. Oh, yeah. Which is weird because he's a black lab, not a chocolate lab. There are chocolate labs. You should get one of those. Yeah. So this, and I name him black licorice i named never mind so i got a yellow lab named him licorice that's the one so chocolate starts

to bark continuously outside the garage anybody with dogs knows that could be something to worry about or it could be shut the fuck up and stop barking at nothing. I spent half of my day yelling at the dog for barking at the UPS guy, the fucking Amazon person. And every time a truck with squeaky brakes goes by, cause they think that's the Amazon truck pulling in and shut the fuck up. And I'm running around the house. You do that. So we all do that shit. So that's how it goes. And he says, quote, the dog started barking. This is Michael Clawson. Chuck said to Frank, go see what the dog's barking at.

I was beneath my car and I heard a sound. It was like firecrackers. I didn't know what it was. Then I heard feet scuffling in the dirt outside. So he's under a car. So he's in a weird position here. So then he heard, you know, he heard what he thinks is firecrackers. And then Sherman, Frank had gone out there and Michael Clawson said, though, quote, at

first I didn't pay much attention. Then I heard a gunshot inside the garage, and it was very loud. Oh, boy. So gunshot outside the garage, firecrackers. Gunshot in the garage. Holy shit, that's loud. And there's a lot of metal to bounce off of in there. Yeah, but if you drop a fucking screwdriver in there, it's loud.

It's loud. Yeah, echoey as shit. So Clausen said he heard Jeremy Bullock, the big guy, 64350 there, grunting, quote, like he was in pain, like something was hitting him. From beneath the car. He's under the fucking car. Right. He can see Bullock. He can see his friend Jeremy Bullock.

His feet pointed upward as if he had fallen backwards. He looked over at him and he just sees his bottom of his feet sticking sticking up he's like oh shit that's not good obviously he said that um uh as because he jeremy bullock was trying to get under his car apparently yeah and he said he watched clausen said he watched as bull as jeremy bullock tried to get under his car he heard someone say quote you're going to die and then he heard another gunshot. Oh, God. Which is not what you want to hear. From underneath his car,

all he can see is ankles. So you don't want to come out from under the car. This is terrifying. You want to run away, because if he sees you under the car, it's an easy way to shoot you. Right. But if you're,

fuck, if he doesn't see you, don't move. You're safe't move you're safe but at the same time you're just seeing shit go on with feet so that's got to be terrifying you don't know at any point this person could bend down look at you and stick the gun under there like that's terrifying it's like yeah you you may feel safe but you're also fucking trapped because you can't get out of there no this is this is how many countless horror movies have you seen where someone's hiding under the bed watching the feet and then you know somebody grabs their the back of their feet from the other side and pulls them up that's that's it's a it's a fucking horror movie terrifying scenario that we're all would be scared of so

from underneath his car he can see a person wearing a dark blue pair of pants that had a light blue stripe down the side. And he recognized the colors as those pants as like the foster police department's uniforms. Okay. The person was also wearing a pair of black, like army boots, basically combat boots, which all the cops wear. He said he couldn't see the assailant's face, though, because he's under the car.

He watched the person walk around to the passenger side of his car, which he's underneath, glossing it dead, and where Charles had been sitting originally before he went out to check on the dog. Then he heard two shots and a gasp from Charles as well. Oh, boy. So the next thing he saw were shell casings falling to the floor near the shooter's boots.

He just saw the whole, the whole fucking guns worth of shell casings go to the ground. Yeah. And that's when he heard. And then he waited a short while, he said, Clawson, uh,

under his car. Yeah. And then he crawled out to see what was going on. Um, so when he does, this was after he's the person he thought walked away, he see looks up and he sees that Charles Sherman has been shot in the face multiple times. Oh man. And when we tell you with what it's, that something at close range especially um clausen at this point runs out of the garage and as soon as he gets out of the garage he runs into jeremy bullock lying on

his back also shot up oh god so he's like holy fuck he runs out he's able to get into his car and drive home where he told his parents who immediately called the police yeah okay now at the time the way this went down at the time that frank went to investigate the dog's barking because charles is the one who told frank because he's the younger brother go fuck and see what the dog wants daryl drake had been sitting in the front seat of his own car working on his radio okay um there was loud bangs that were shaking the garage uh daryl drake will later say he saw a dark complected man but a white guy with a dark complexion not a black guy uh with short hair and glasses pointing a gun at him from a distance of about six or seven feet

it's terrifying yeah drake said he jumped out of the way and then heard another shot and then jumped across the console of the car and onto the floor. He fell out the passenger side door where he saw the body of Jeremy Bullock lying on the ground. Drake then saw a person who was wearing black boots headed toward the back of the garage. So Drake got up and ran out of the garage. He just takes off. mean this is you know run for your life fight or flight this is literal this is flight is what this is so as he's running though he hears more shots being fired in the garage yeah he then realizes he's shot really he's been shot he's been shot through his left side it's a through and through went in his left by his ribs and has come out on the right side on his left side yeah but came out the right came out his right side oh my all the way through the body all the way through and he realizes that he's having difficulty breathing uh-huh which would make sense if you probably have a collapsed lung from being shot in the fucking chest or in the rib cage he He said at that point he heard squealing tires. So it was like, okay.

And he saw a light colored Grand Marquis or Crown Victoria drive quickly past him with its headlights off. Doesn't seem suspicious or anything. The guy that probably did this? I would say. Daryl Drake then runs to the first house he sees which is smart and asks just bangs on the door he's full of fucking blood please help they've they've heard gunshots i mean jesus christ you hear that this is help me help me so the police car called they

come to the location drake is taken by ambulance to the hospital, obviously. And he is hospitalized and everything like that. So there's, you know, he's in there. He's in critical condition. They don't know if he's going to make it and all that kind of shit. So the Sergeant Samuel Mooney, who is a member of the Foster Police Department, he's on duty that night he responded to the call and said that another sergeant had already arrived there will william chapman and was waiting for additional police units to respond before searching the garage they don't know if they're still an assailant there they have no idea so a number of state police units also respond to the call this isn't normal around here so

no it gets kind of oh shit let's go check that out. So immediately they became suspicious of Robert Sabetta. They're like, these kids had beef with them, and everybody's saying they saw a police car with police pants and all that kind of shit. All the other cops had no beef with these kids, so they didn't know what was going on. So several municipal units come, including a bunch of surrounding towns and shit like that. They're told to be notified. Be on the lookout for a car, gray-colored, 90 or 91, Ford LTD, Crown Victoria, bearing Rhode Island vehicle registration number, license plate number 77712. That's what they have.

He has, this is fucking crazy. So Daryl Drake ends up surviving his wounds. Is that right? He survives it through and through to the chest. By the way, this is with a.357. Holy shit! Shot the one guy twice in the face with a.357, Jimmy. And he took a.357 through the fucking lung and survived and survived

ran away as a man that's how right how powerful is adrenaline yeah that you can run with that even though your lung has collapsed and everything else that's all adrenaline all fight or flight this is i'm dying or i'm running that's all is. Might as well have a lion chasing you. You know, that's like the most human thing ever. If you're shot with a.357, you're going to feel. I can't believe he didn't feel it. He didn't know until he got out of there. It's fucking insane. Jeremy Bullock is dead.

He's been killed, shot multiple times with a.357. And both the Sherman boys are dead. Frank and Charles have been killed. So Michael Clawson gets away unscathed because he was under the car. The assailant never saw him, never knew he was even fucking there. So he's the only one who gets away unscathed. And so, yeah, three dead, one injured, one witness. Witness defeat, though.

That's the problem. Right. And they're saying. And a.357 only holds, I think, I mean, you can get one that holds eight but this has got a six in this one this is a six wow we'll find out yeah so six and he emptied the shells and then was fucking reloading and shooting more think about that people with all of them my 12 yeah 12 times they were shot so he had to unload reload with this shit that's that's. That's some calculated shit. It's a lot of rounds, yeah.

So, Clausen said that, because they asked Clausen, do you know, oh, by the way, Drake ends up picking out Sabetta out of a lineup when they show him a six-pack of shots. So, that's not good. Then, they asked Clausen, do you know Robert Sabetta? And he said, yes, actually. I know the guy. Yeah. They asked Clausen, do you know Robert Sabetta? And he said, yes, actually, I know the guy. I've seen him at my stepfather's car auction. And he said that, yeah, I've seen him there. And they said, will you tell us a little bit about it?

And he kind of goes through his story again. Like I said, he said, I recognize the foster policeman's colors. He said, I never saw his face, but I heard his voice as he approached the Mustang and opened fire on Chucky. That's what they call Charles Chucky. So he said, I heard someone say, you're going to die. Then I heard another shot. I slid further under the car. I heard one shot. And then two seconds later, another shot. Chucky tried to move. I could feel the car shaking. Then I heard Chucky's last breath. Oh, God. That is fucking horrifying.

He said he watched the gunman's feet as he approached the passenger door and then heard a shot again. He said, I was terrified. I didn't want to look up. No shit. I wouldn't want to either. He said that he heard footsteps as the gunman left the garage. He said that Clawson, the dog came back in, running back and forth,

looking for somebody, anybody, because nobody's alive except for Clawson. And Drake has run away. So Clawson said he waited about a minute and a half after he heard the assailant walk away. Then he crawled out and saw everybody, saw two people on the ground. Yeah, it's two on the ground outside

bullock and his brother are bullock and frank and then charles was dead in the driver's seat of his car of michael clauston's car and he didn't know where drake was at that point he was just gone so he drove to his stepfather's house a mile up the road um and he like i said he never knew anything about drake at all um he said they asked him, have you ever heard his voice, Sabetta's voice before? Have you talked to him? He said, yes, talked to him. He's spoken to him on several occasions. But he doesn't know if the you're going to die was from him because he said he's never heard him raise his voice.

He's never heard him yell in anger. He's just heard him casually talk about a car. I've also never heard the man say you're gonna die you're gonna die yeah and if someone says you're gonna die angrily it's way different than so uh yeah what's uh what's the what he got in there you know what's under that hood it's a little bit of a different different deal so he said he could not say that it was definitely that so they also when they questioned daryl dra Drake about the whole thing when he's in the hospital, he gave the description of the car. He said it was the license plate 77712.

And the police sergeant said that officers in Foster have a tradition of including their badge numbers on their license plates. They get personalized plates with their badge numbers. Idiot. And his badge number was 712. Dumb dumb. It's him. I mean, it's his fucking personalized plate that goes to his car to his badge even. I mean, it's not good.

So the cops at the scene said there was two huge pools of blood by the garage's open front doors. They said where Frank and Bullock died. They said that a dozen and more than a dozen state and foster police officers were in the garage. They were wanting to make molds of footprints on the ground and shit like that. The one cops, or this is actually the owner, Wilson, said there's blood all over the place. It's a disaster. It all makes me sick. This poor bastard, Jesus Christ.

He's just renting his garage out. Now it's a murder scene. So they're looking for the car anyway. I mean, maybe someone stole Robert's car and came and did this. We don't know. And then killed some people that he could probably want dead. That he had beef with. Remember, this is a big deal

because there's a felony case against him that these kids are the witnesses for so absolutely yeah this is a huge deal this isn't just like oh i'm kind of mad at them because they got me in trouble this is i can go to prison and lose my job so they're looking for him 3 30 a.m uh here this is uh detective sergeant gerald a prendergast. He said that an officer observed him, Sabata, in his car driving in Cranston where he lived. And the Cranston police sergeant said that officers were told to be on the lookout for him, obviously. They sat in areas they thought he might drive by, and they followed him. They saw him, followed him on a street for a little more than a mile, and then once he turned off the street, they stopped him. It was right by his house.

They stopped him. They said he was taken into custody without incident. They knew the fucking guy. I mean, you know, he's arrested and arraigned for the murders and charged with assault with intent to commit murder on Drake, obviously. And so he's arrested here, advised of his rights, and told he's suspected of murder, and they try to get a statement from him, obviously. He refused to give them specific answers, though. All he would say is, quote, this is Sabetta's quote,

I'm in a lot of trouble. You don't understand the pressure I'm under. I just don't want to talk about it right now. We know all of this. Yes, we know you're in trouble because we all looked for you. We get the pressure you're under. Yeah, it's pretty big. It's pretty big. I don't want to talk

about it right now. So finally, Sabetta asked to be allowed to speak to the police chief, Cattell. Let me speak to the chief. Put the chief in here and I'll talk to him. So the Prendergrass said he saw Sabetta again after Sabetta talked to Cattell.

So they said, what did he say to you? And all Sabetta would say, he was shaking his head and he said, I really messed up, didn't I? And at that point, a judge came to police headquarters to arraign him, which I've never heard of before. I've never heard of a judge.

It's usually not mobile arraignments. They don't come to you. Usually you go to them. It's a judge for Christ's sake. They are fast-tracking it. This is some McDonald's justice. Yeah, they're like, get in the car. Listen, your honor.

Over $3 billion served. Put your robe on. Yeah. Have your wife put on a pot of coffee and get down here. Yeah. Jesus Christ. So they did that. Sometime after 5 a.m.

So this is between 3.30 and 5. They had him arraigned with a judge already there and everything. Holy shit. They said him and two other Pendergrast and two other police detectives visited Sabetta in the cell block, but they couldn't get a statement from him. They said all he would say is that he was in big trouble and it was unlikely that he would get to be a cop anymore. That's what he was upset about. Prendergast described him as, quote, sullen and weepy.

Sullen and weepy. So under questioning later on, Prendergast said that he did uh he had not tried to find out if someone other than sabetta had motive to kill the teenagers because they ask him in this investigation did you look at anybody else and he said no we looked at him yeah we had a suspect and we followed it and it turns out that was pretty good suspect that's all we got a license plate number happens to be his yeah in a murder investigation the thing that i think it's a tough one that people don't get a lot of times is you

think of a murder investigation you think okay here's what they must do they must gather every fact they have and then look through it and go well look at the and look at like the piles in each person's in front of each person's name they go oh there's way more of a pile of evidence in front of them that's who we're going to go after that's not what they do they look for whatever thread because you couldn't do it like that it'd be impossible to do it like that it would do investigations would take forever they look for whatever thread is loose and pull on it and if that's the wrong thread if it just pops out then they throw that thread aside and they look at the next thread and sometimes the first thread that's your thread that's your thread yeah you go with the most obvious thread you pull on it and sometimes fuck the whole the whole pillow comes apart you know what i mean you never know so they

they the estate trooper john layden had a conversation with sabetta in the rear seat of the police cruiser when he was where he was being held after his arrest this is the guy who advised him of his miranda rights from his miranda warning card after layton advised him of his rights he asked him sabetta if he understood them and sabetta said yeah i'm a cop yeah i fucking know those are yeah i've read that by the way this is a rule i'd like to see if you are a police officer and you're arrested for something no matter whether they read you your rights or not, you're not allowed to say later that they didn't read you your rights. We, as a police officer, when you leave your house in the morning, it's under the assumption that you know what your rights are since you have a fucking card in your pocket that you

by law have to read to someone every time you put handcuffs on them. Verbatim. Verbatim. We feel like you know it by now. Yeah. So you're the only, only cops. That'sim. We feel like you know it by now. Yeah. So you're the only only cops. That's it. You don't have to read them the rights.

You go. You have to go. You know your rights. Right. If they go. No I don't actually remind me. Then you have to read them. You know I got those down.

Could you read those to me. Fuck. I lost that card on my first day and I was too embarrassed to ask for another one. You know. So I just I haven't been doing it. I've just been going. Come on. We're going to jail now.

Off to jail we go. Hoping no one noticed, but shit. I haven't been doing it. Jesus Christ. So he made several statements then to Layden. At one point he said, wow, this is big. I must be in some trouble. What do you think? Yeah, man.

I mean. Shot four teenagers. What do you think? I think that's just going to go under the rug and rug or what? Then he nodded, Sabetta did, toward the northern part of the state, like that way, and said, what, another one up there? And the guy said, Layden said, where were you coming from? And Sabetta said that he was coming from Mr. Donuts, of course. God, he's a whole stereotype.

Had to get some coffee creamer. Had to get some creamer. He then said that he had his off-duty gun on the floor of the rear seat of his car. So Layden asked Sabetta if he had any police uniforms in his car and he said no and said he's on suspension for another thing in foster is what he told the guy so he didn't have any uniforms then sabetta told laden that he didn't want to talk any further because there were too many television cameras around by this point local news is tipped off to this the chief likes to talk in front of the camera as we'll find out the chief is on he's on a current affair by the weekend oh yeah he's got a current affair by the

weekend he's sitting there going well i mean he must have just snapped i guess it's so those were in the 90s that and the law and order those are the two most famous and well known noises of the 90s there so And the ticks from 60 Minutes. Oh, and the ticks. Yeah, that was for 40 years before that, though, too. So they told him all of that, and he said he would speak at the police barracks, but didn't want to talk with all the cameras around. So when they get there, Pendergrast, who's the sergeant, he speaks with him in a conference room along with Pendergrast's partner, Detective James Demers. Pendergrast reads him his warnings. He signs it, all that kind of shit. And then he said again, wow, this is big, ain't it? I'm in a lot of trouble.

You don't understand the pressure I'm under. He said this quote, you don't understand the pressure I'm under. The war is over. I don't really want to waste your time, but I don't want to talk about it right now. I understand you to waste your time but i don't want to talk about it right now i understand you're doing your job i don't want to talk about it right now you can understand that can't you the war is over is a weird one i don't get that you can understand you don't understand the pressure i'm under the war is over i don't really want to waste your time does it like just ended does that mean like the cows out of the barn or horses out of the barn or whatever it is like the clutch it's already gone yeah water's under the bridge like it's over with fuck it i guess i don't know so he asked if he could speak with the police with the chief of police and they do uh he does not

make any admission of guilt however um he does say to the chief quote i really fucked up didn't i yeah dog i mean you're in trouble and you fucked up. Why do you need confirmation of it? As soon as we read you those rights, you should have realized this is a problem. He spoke to his father then, Sabetta does, in the presence of Prendergast and Demers. During their conversation,

the father asked him whether he wanted an attorney and he said he doesn't want an attorney right this minute, Sabetta said. So after the father left, Prendergrast and Demers again asked him if he wanted to speak with, you want to speak with us now? And he responded, I need help. I don't know what that means. Is that a yes?

Is that a no? When they asked him if he wanted to tell them what happened, he said, I do, but I want to talk to my attorney first. You're like, well, we just asked you if you want an attorney and you said you don't. You're a confusing son of a bitch, aren't sabetta you're a fucking enigma you know that you're you're a little annoying i gotta be honest i'm really glad that we never got like partnered up in a patrol car because i think you would have annoyed the fuck out of me so i'm glad you do the murdering rather than investigating them yeah just it's it's it's a weird twist here.

So the cops leave him alone at that point. They say he asked for a lawyer. Fuck it. They have then let him make a phone call and was taken to a cell block. He consults with his attorney the next morning and is arraigned. Sometime after his arraignment, they go to his cell block again.

This is Prendergrass, Demers, and Layton all go to his cell block to advise him that he's going to be transported to the adult correctional institution. And he said at that point, what's going to happen? What's the procedure? Because he doesn't know. I usually just drop him off with you guys.

So they told him he's going to be transported by a member of the state police and that he'll be treated as any other prisoner. I think he was wondering, like, how does this work since I'm a cop? Then he said additional statements. He said that he was in big trouble again. And then he says, well, it doesn't look like I'll be a cop any longer as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's wow.

He also said, quote, there was always going to be someone out there just like him, just like the guy in Massachusetts a month or so ago. And so they interpreted that statement as referring to a man who was in the news as having shot and killed his girlfriend and estranged wife because they had talked about that. Apparently, they said he appeared emotionally upset at the time and asked for a few minutes to be alone before being taken to the institution there, and they granted him that. Now, guns, okay?

Detective Leroy Rose, he had a Glock in his car, did Sabetta, and another gun in his car as well. So the Glock here among the items seized on the floor were a loaded.40 cal Glock with a laser sight as well on there. A magazine clip containing 12 rounds and an Uncle Mike's holster. And from the inside, a brand, I assume. Yeah, it's the cheapest, shittiest ones. Yeah, well, he's a rookie. You know, he's got to build up his...

From inside the glove compartment, they seized a Glock.40 caliber loaded magazine with 12 rounds of ammo as well. And from the ashtray, they seized one round of.40 caliber ammunition. They... Neither a.357 nor combat boots were found in his car, though.

Huh. Everyone was shot with a.357. So, the town is fucking like, holy shit. Yeah. This does not happen here, A. And they all like the kids. Everyone said, oh, those are the nice kids that you can trust to fix your car and they won't gouge you. And then this guy's a cop.

So this is like in a town of 4,000, people's heads are exploding. Here's some reactions. Here's the Wilson car shop shop owner guy he said about the kids i loved them they helped me around the place for the last two years i'm really sick over this yeah uh their former principal this is sabetta's former principal said i'm having a really hard time visualizing this well you can visualize it check out the pools of blood. I'm not having a hard time at all, to be honest with you. Jesus Christ. Gloria Drake, who is Daryl Drake's grandmother, said they were a lot of fun.

They put sports cars together. They're just young kids. So, yeah. And she also said that Drake's mother, Drake's father, had died recently, too. So the mother lost her husband. Yeah. Town gossip is in here. Beatrice Law.

This is funny. She's at Kenny's Kitchen on Route 6, which is down the street. She's waiting for her order of eggs and potatoes, and they're just asking people in the diner, what do you think? And she said, this is the Providence Journal there. That's that newspaper. You get a lot of shit out of there. We got a lot for this show. She says, it just hits you when it's people you know.

You figure these things happen in the city. Yeah. Over medium. Oh, there we go. Nice and crispy. Yeah, crispy on those potatoes. Rob Edson, he finished his lunch finished his lunch at the countryside pizza. Oh, sure. That's excellent pizza.

He said, everybody knows everybody stuff like this doesn't happen. Can't say that anymore. It did happen. That's what he said. So he filled, he filled in what we would have said. Thanks. He said that the, he predicts that these killings will change people in foster. He said, quote, everybody's going to be more closed.

They're not going to open up. The less you get involved, the less trouble you get in. That can be translated to what now? Mind your fucking business. That's what he just said. I think people are going to start minding their business a little more now. Beatrice Law, another woman here, here she says i have grandchildren growing up i hate to think what it's going to be like in 10 years if it's that bad now

the whole town isn't falling apart this aren't a series of drug murders where cartels have moved in this is a very very specific specific wow that that beatrice jesus christ some context and perspective please this is why panic happens and crazy shit happens i can't imagine what it's going to be like in 10 years oh yeah this should happen every weekend now beatrice take your fucking meds and sit down holy shit wait for your fucking eggs and relax beatrice holy shit drinking switch to decaf you can't have decaf high octane this early in the morning Jesus Christ you don't vote do you is what I would say because maybe just the creamer for you yeah just you want some creamer milk is very good from what I hear so now the police chief could tell he decides to go right to the press with all this like

immediately um so it's it's fucking hilarious there's he talked about internal the internal investigation in the he talks about that to the newspaper the article reported the specific details of the assault on frank sherman that we told you about uh or i'm sorry charles sherman or frank is the one he hit sorry and stated that an internal investigation by the Foster Police Department had led to Sabetta's suspension with pay. In addition, he said, quote, that Sabetta, quote, knew he was in trouble and that his job was on the line. He also gave an interview to A Current Affair.

This is during the month of April. This is like two weeks, within two weeks of the crime. The interview aired, though, May 28th, but he gave the interview like a week after the crime. He says that, quote, there was a complaint that one of the officers

had assaulted a youth with a flashlight and the youth had lost a couple of teeth. Sabetta asked me, is this a felony? And I says, yes. A flashlight is a deadly weapon. It's assault with a deadly weapon. If you're convicted of a felony,

you could never be a police officer again. He needed to be a police officer. It was his whole life. And when he saw it was going away, he evidently cracked. Evidently. Evidently. Now this is before any trial.

This is not only a co-worker but the fucking chief of police of the investigating department just giving their whole games their game plan right there in the press not good um yeah he said it just bothered him because he couldn't have been a police officer i think he always wanted to be a police officer and it meant everything to him. When he was indicted for the alleged assault, I think it affected him greatly. He said that Sabetta's gun was confiscated when he was suspended, and the chief said, because they're like, did you take his gun?

Did he kill the kids with a service revolver? He says that he took, no, I took the guy's gun, and then said, quote, what can you do? I took away his service revolver that should be everything he said the judge issued a no contact order but you can't control an individual that's what he said shit happens is what he said i mean there's thousands of individuals you're controlling right now behind bars yeah Yep. You could have done that. Can't control him. Nope, nope. I took his gun away. What else do you want from me?

Tending an investigation. And I said, don't. Don't you go there no more. Now, Cattell also said he believed the shooting deaths were the first in Foster, first homicides in Foster since 1973. 20 years. Beatrice is ready to pack her grandkids up in the station wagon and run with her hair on fire because what's it going to be like in 10 years my god jesus christ 10 years from now holy shit what's gonna happen

right after this plate of potatoes and eggs i'm getting the fuck out of here yeah you heard 10 years she fucking ran away um but cattell said quote it's like the last frontier in rhode island we still have some dirt roads and horses and farming i never had any idea this was going to happen that's the last frontier you've just described small town murder my friend that's why do you do the show? Well, cause it's like the last frontier. We have some dirt roads and horses never had any idea.

This is going to happen. I find that interesting when people are safe and they, they're not. So Sabetta senior or Sabetta junior. No, he's senior. Cause Sabetta is a junior. Robert Sabetta senior,

Robert's father told reporters that his son quote was an excellent police officer and the police can back that statement sir he's more concerned he's on the job for less than two years before he took out a teenager's front teeth with his flashlight that's not a good officer number one and then killed them and then possibly murdered three holy fucking shit. He said that, quote, for my son's sake, I hope he's innocent. I hope to God he didn't do it. No shit. So then they talk about his night. Well, where was he?

What did he do? What did you do? Apparently he was in algebra class that night, Robert Sabetta. Really? That's where he was. Yeah, he's at the community college. Doing some math. Doing some shit.

Yeah, people said of one witness gene kula we cool kula wesky kula sapki i don't know how the fuck you say that something polish yeah um said that sabetta attended class from 6 30 to 9 30 on april 13th a three-hour class that sounds like a fucking nightmare jesus dude i have no this is see i could never do that. I don't have the, I need to be like, can I get up and run around for like 20 minutes? Attention span post dinner. Are you out of your fucking mind? No. Don't even talk to me about your day. I would have, my mind can drift for like an hour and a half. I'd be like, I have no idea what that person just said for an hour and a half. That could happen. I've watched whole movies where I don't know anything that happened. Cause I started thinking about something else in the beginning and completely drifted away

you could be yelling in my face and i'm like i can block it all out so and after dinner as each morsel is digested my attention span is less and less i'm dozing by now plus i'd be very stoned when i showed up so by 8 8 30 i'd start to be like, all right, well, I'm not going to eat anything or anything. I'm going to take a nap here. So the the that's what he was doing. She this woman testified she saw him around nine forty for the last time. She said he had been wearing jeans, sneakers and a sweatshirt. This was right before he drove over to there. So and was in his police uniform. This was right before he drove over to there and was in his police uniform.

She previously told the state that he was wearing a navy blue crew neck shirt, but then she changed it to sweatshirt. But she said it was definitely jeans and sneakers. So another woman here, Maria Vitti, she also said that she saw him in algebra class. That's what she saw him wearing too, jeans and sneakers. Now, they need the gun. They don't know where the fucking gun is. They need this murder weapon. They find other guns in his house, guns in his car,

but not the gun they're looking for here. So finally, Groton, Connecticut, there's a river there, and there's a fisherman just fishing, doing his thing, and while he does, he hooks a gun. He caught himself a Smith & Wesson. Caught himself a.357 Magnum revolver is what he caught himself right by the shore there. Hard to skin those. Yeah, I don't know if he was fishing for, like, sunnies or what right by the shore.

Those grew up real tough. You got a flash fry. Oh, he's a big one there. That's a long barrel now. I'm going to take him to the taxidermist, get him mounted. If it's a short barrel, I'd throw him back, but i ain't throwing back no long barrel he caught a gun that's a that's a six inch barrel on there boy that's gonna be good so it's the uh what are the fucking chances of what are the what are the goddamn chances that you pull up a murder weapon when you're going for a smallmouth bass probably Probably not very good, I would say.

He's dragging the bottom trying to catch those shit-eating fish. Yeah, catfish and shit. This is like right by the shore, too. It was on the banks, so he was on the banks. What? He just dropped it? Or did he throw it from the other side of the fucking river? I don't know.

Well, from the middle if you're going toward the bank. If it's a sharp drop-off, you get some bass that'll might congregate at the bottom of that i'm thinking log over there or something i'm thinking more of when he threw the gun in the water she better he just tossed it lightly he didn't care he's like well walk to the as long flopped it in as long as it went in water he was good he didn't do like that yeah he didn't like do like a you know like a one of those called discus where he like went around three times and fucking threw it out in the middle he didn't do one of those he was just like gross and threw it away and then go back to my car now thumb and his forefinger and

just open it up and he was like perfect out of here man took takes off so this person pulls up a 357 and calls he called the cops because he's like i don't know who the fuck would leave why would you leave a gun in the lake or a river for no reason he tried he had to have caught the trigger guard you know the ring yes that's what he caught what are the odds right way what are the odds of that that's a great fisherman you know what that takes way more talent than catching fish. I've gone out fishing for an afternoon and caught five, six fish. I've never caught a gun, so that's impressive.

I'm impressed. Yeah. I'd almost be happier. Did you catch anything? Holy shit, did I? Wait till you hear this. That's just a big fish story. I don't believe you.

Yeah, well, guess what? Look at the paper there. Would you have to turn it into the cops too so you can't prove it what was it used in a triple murder homicide or something so by the way when it's recovered not only is it recovered it also has six spent shells in the chamber oh my god yep they're still in there, bud. Wow. Yeah, very easy to match up if you have the shells, the gun, and the fucking bullets. Didn't even pull the shells. Nope. The first one he did, they all hit the floor. He left those behind. Left them at the scene.

But then this, he just threw them in there. So now he takes these with him so that they match perfect. Yep. So they're like, how can we say this is his gun, though? How can we put it in his hands that day? How can we say this is his gun, though? How can we put it in his hands that day? How can we do this? Well, a friend of his said that they used that very same gun to shoot target practice in Sabetta's backyard in Cranston. So the state police cut down a tree from his yard and got more than 130 bullets out of it.

Wow. 130 because he's been using the thing as a fucking target so they compared the bullets from the crime scene to the ones from the tree and they're identical and then they all and bingo bango they all match that gun and boom there we go um so by the way the one cop said quote we say the tree died of lead poisoning that's what he said that's his humor oh boy so robert hathaway who's a science guy here that's his official title science guy yeah there's only two bill nye and him the only ones that just go by science guy two graduates of the one school of science shit i believe is the right it's a prestigious school of science

shit come on sign up so this guy i don't know what his official title is i know he does science shit so that's what i'm saying he uh he said six bullets from the crime scene and the medical examiner's office were fired from the alleged murder weapon a ruger 357 magnum tested the bullets from the shooting scene the the bodies, and the victims, and they're all the same. Metal filings, though. Let's really make sure, because the gun had its serial number filed off, by the way. Of course it did, yeah.

So they were like, well, we can't say it's his gun registered to him. So they get an FBI metallurgist named William A. Tobin that compares the filings from the basement of Sabetta's home to the metal of the three. Yes, of course he left. Of course he couldn't even sweep this fucking idiot. He left the filings there. Guy doesn't even have a dustpan, this idiot. Un-fucking-believable where he had removed the serial number with a grinder or file,

took a sample from the barrel of the revolver and determined that they are similar deals there and acknowledged that he couldn't say for certain that the filings were from the murder weapon. But when you put the bullets in the tree and the bullets in the guys and his gun and the filings and all that, mix it all together in one big fucking cocktail, you got yourself a hell of a dirty martini, my friend. That's filthy. That's filthy. That's a gray goose too top shelf so he said um yeah he couldn't say for sure they said quote they could have come from a stainless steel knife tools or a frying pan couldn't they they ask him later on and the guy says well yes so they said so you can't tell us where they came from at all? And he said, not exactly, no. But shit, that sounds bad, doesn't it? They also talked to a gun shop owner.

Let's make it a little more. Let's put another nail in the coffin here. Robert Carney, who owns a Warwick gun shop, he said that in January 1993, Robert Sabetta left a.357 Magnum with him to sell but took the weapon back two days later. I'm going to need that on Sunday. Yep, January 20th he left it at the shop. Two days later, Sabetta phoned and asked him if it had been bought. The guy said, I told him that it had not been sold.

He came back later, picked up the firearm, and left with it. He said he couldn't tell whether the murder weapon was the same gun at all. He said, I can't tell. What the fuck do I know? They all look the same to me. I don't know. So more physical evidence here they're talking about at the time, or lack of here, at the time of the shooting, obviously,

Sabet is a student at Community College of Rhode Island and is taking math courses. So he had attended the classes from 6.30 to 9.30, like we said. He was wearing jeans, sneakers, and a sweatshirt, which, by the way, was the same thing he was wearing when he was arrested. So he was arrested wearing the same thing he was wearing at school. Okay, so they said that the police seized the clothes he was wearing and tested them for blood, and they found no blood at all. They also tested his hands. Yeah, they did one of those, and none was found.

Okay. Nothing found on his hands. That doesn't mean he wasn't wearing gloves. Nobody saw his hands. That's the thing. He could have dipped his hands in some of that Go-Jail on the way out. He could have gooped it up good on the way out. You never know. I don't know if that would – I don't know what – That's the thing. He could have dipped his hands in some of that Gojo on the way out. He could have gooped it up good on the way out. You never know.

I don't know if that would – I don't know what – this is the thing. I don't know what – how long it takes for gunshot residue to get off of your hand. I know it doesn't – it takes longer than a few hours, but I don't know what kind of cleaning you could do to get rid of it or if cleaning wouldn't get rid of it for a certain amount of time. I'm not sure of the science of that exactly. Not positive. So they said that none was found though. So they testified later on the crime scene and the evidence taken there.

They tested. They took seven fingerprints lifted from the crime scene. But none of them were ever sent off to the FBI for identification. Why not? Because I think they think if he had no gunshot residue on his hands, he was probably wearing gloves and none of those

fingerprints are going to match him. They're just going to match some other customer that that's going to put the investigation in another path. But they don't want it to be. That's just given the defense boogeyman to bring up at that point. So they also said that the tests on the clothes he was wearing had no evidence of bloodstains

or gunpowder at all. So they said no fibers on his clothing were found on the victim's clothing as well, and that tests for bloodstains or fiber samples were never performed on any of the five pairs of police trousers found at Sabetta's home. Oh. Okay. Now, so he's in jail. That was April 14th, the morning of the 14th they take

him in april 17th okay later three days later uh they find him in his cell he tried to kill himself by slashing his wrists and throat with a razor blade why would he do that because he's fucked like he said but he's uh he doesn't know all this other stuff huh he i think he does he's fucked, like you said. But he doesn't know all this other stuff, huh? I think he does. He knows he's fucked is what he knows. And they know he did it, and he can't be a cop now, and he's fucked. So he's taken by ambulance. He had to undergo emergency surgery.

He was in critical condition. They said two inmates returning from breakfast found him bleeding in his cell. He had opted to stay in his cell while others were taken to eat breakfast. I guess breakfast is optional, they said, in this jail. So you can just hang in your cell. He had opted to stay in his cell while others were taken to eat breakfast. I guess breakfast is optional, they said, in this jail. So you can just hang in your cell. And if you want to hang back and take a shit or something, you can. Or kill yourself. Or kill yourself.

Shit, jerk off, kill yourself. Private things is what we're talking about. Things you want privacy from. They said at about 8.30, he had been seen at about 8.10. Everybody said he was in good condition, seemed fine. And then by 8.30, he was found bleeding in his cell. They said that he was conscious when they found him, and he actively tried to fight off prison staff members who came to his aid. He was like, let me fucking die. He literally said, leave me the fuck alone.

Leave me here. So he did it with a single blade disposable razor yeah the uh prison official said there was no question it was self-inflicted they said the wounds were severe even though the razor which has a metal blade seated in a plastic casing had not been tampered with he somehow what he fucking you get there's a will there's a way man did it with a bick without opening it? He did it with a prison issue. Oh my God. The razors they give the prisoners, yeah, that are supposed to be pretty, you know, safe.

That is, you gotta be vicious to get through that. Yep, they said that you gotta really want it. Yeah. That's what I mean, you gotta want it. They said that all inmates are given disposable razors when they're admitted, along with a toothbrush, toothpaste, and soap. Yeah. He said that this is the only incident that he's ever heard of in which an inmate had attempted suicide with a prison-issue razor,

which I find hard to believe. Yeah, that seems like the first thing. The suicide rate in prison is astronomical. I can't imagine. They'd be like, I have this one thing they give me that's super sharp. I won't give it a shot with this first. The sharpest thing I have is, I don't know, a razor blade. Maybe I'll just use the bedsheets.

Yeah, fuck it. Maybe I'll hang myself with a bedsheet. So they also said that after the attempt, state police found five envelopes in his cell addressed to various close relations and friends of his. Apologies and goodbye letters. He wrote suicide notes and tried to kill himself. Enter Lori Ann Malloy. Let's talk about Lori. Let's talk about her.

Who's she? She's a fellow foster police officer. Graduated from the academy with Sabetta. She learned about the murders and Sabetta's involvement during her midnight to 8 a.m. shift because they picked them up during the shift. She told her sergeant about knowing Sabetta from having attended police academy with him. shift. She told her sergeant about knowing Sabetta from having attended police academy with him. Later that morning

her sergeant contacted her worried that because they hadn't picked Sabetta up that yet at that point that Sabetta might come to they were worried that Sabetta might come to one of one of their homes. So at Malloy's

suggestion this person arranged to spend the night at the house of her one of their homes. So at Malloy's suggestion, this person arranged to spend the night at the house of her friend, who was also a police officer. So they were kind of going on the buddy system here. So Malloy stopped by somebody's house after her shift. And when they talked about the Sabetta matter, they said that talking about the shoot, this person said talking about the shootings

upset them a lot and they didn't want to discuss them any further and all of that. So Malloy ends up being suspended in 1994, a year later, for withholding information about the killings. And she alleged that the chief of police in Warwick suspended her for not cooperating, but didn't suspend any of the male officers he had trouble with. So later on, she'll file a discrimination suit. But she says that the first time she said this, quote, this is about Sabetta. She was hanging out with him. She said he made a threat against one of the boys, but I'm not sure of his exact words. I want to handle this myself.

I'm not getting the support I need. Maybe I should kill him, is what Molloy said that Sabetta said. I should just handle this myself. I'm not getting the support I need. Maybe I should kill him, is what Molloy said that Sabetta said. I should just handle this myself. She said she didn't take the threat seriously. She just thought he was, you know, I should kill that little shit myself, talking bastard. One of those. She said she didn't take it seriously. She said he seemed upset about the matter and was, he was just venting, just off steam okay so she said that her and cranston or i'm sorry her sabetta maloy sabetta and another cranston patrol woman paula duffy they all graduated at the police academy at the same time they saw each other each other socially

on two occasions in february 93 before the murders right the. The first occasion, Malloy said that Sabetta showed her and Duffy a semi-automatic pistol with the laser sight, which is the Glock that we talked about. And so they talked about that. They also said that he that Malloy said Duffy, the other patrol, the patrol woman here. What's her name? Paula Duffy. This is crazy. Fired a handgun from sabetta's car what that's illegal as fuck yeah you have three cops going out hanging out

going woo shooting guns out the window of a car what the fuck is happening what what the fuck are you doing and they're shocked that this guy may or may not have murdered somebody. This was the woman Paula Duffy fired a handgun from Sabetta's car near Cranston High School West that night. Near the school. That's buck shots. I mean, I get that there's no kids in there, but still. She said, though, she couldn't really remember it that well because, quote, I had several drinks that night and I'm not really much of a drinker. So add in shit-faced cops i don't several often

i'm gonna shoot this gun out of the car i'm gonna shoot it out of the car window because it's nicer that way so malloy's not the one who shot the car who shot out of the car but it's funny that drunk cops were driving around shooting weapons out of the car that is disturbing to me for it i'm gonna fire this and let's see if we could beat it let's see i can for it i'm gonna fire this and let's see if we can beat it let's see i can do it i'm gonna hit something from if i could hit the moon from here and then she's bucking shots off so wow um then a week or two later the trio went out for pizza and they maloy said that sabetta complained about having been suspended from the police department while his superiors investigated the brutality complaint. And, you know, that was when he was talking about that's when he was like, oh, I should just kill him, kill this little bastard myself.

So the court orders mental evaluations for Frank since he or for Sabetta since he killed himself here. So I tried to kill himself. They're like, Robert Sabetta needs some little evaluation. Yeah, let's have a little talk. So they decide to await a fresh psychological evaluation before they decide where to send him because he immediately attempted suicide. Since then, he's been held in the forensic unit of the Institute of Mental Health.

And his lawyer argued that the Adult Correctional Institute could not provide adequate care for Sabetta. They said, allow a recess to provide the forensic unit at IMH to update their information so that the court can be satisfied. Another catastrophe doesn't happen. And the lawyers for the state said, quote, we do not believe he has a mental illness. No? Yeah. No. They believe he was just upset and tried to kill himself. He we do not believe he has a mental illness. No? Yeah. No. They believe he was just upset and tried to kill himself.

He's more of a – Just a normal guy. He's not mental institution kind of crazy. So December 20, like lock him up and he can't go to court kind of, you know. Right. December 20, 1993, he gets one break. The brutality charge against him is dropped. Well, yeah. We don't need that anymore.

No, well, they drop it not because of that, though. They drop it because they fucked up, as we'll talk about here. And there's also no witness. Not anymore. But a panel of police officers dismissed the internal disciplinary charges against him here because Police Chief Donald C Donald could tell speculation on the case on current affair. That's why they did it.

They said in may, he was interviewed on a current affair and they said the police chief speculated that Sabetta killed the three because Frank Sherman had filed a brutality complaint against him. And yeah, so the police panel dismisses the disciplinary charges saying these comments violated Sabetta's right under the law. And so, yeah, they said it rested on law enforcement officers' bill of rights.

Under the law, public discussion of disciplinary charges brought against a law enforcement officer is prohibited before a hearing is conducted or after a hearing is concluded if the officer is found innocent. These are very specific. Yeah. They called his comments egregious and a violation as well. They said that his lawyer as well here, Sabetta's lawyer, said that he is investigating the prospect of seeking back wages for Sabetta. Back wages. From when? From fucking January to May before he murdered a guy?

What are we talking about? They're going to pay him for the time he was planning a murder. Back wages. Unbelievable. I'd say, you know what? Since you killed a guy, let's call it a wash. What do you say? That's just union rules there.

That's that. I mean, boy, do I love a union. But that seems. That's a little much. There's a victim in this case, guys. That's three. There's three. Four.

Four, five. Three dead and one almost dead. I still count the dog as one. What about the guy under the car? Yeah, that's the fifth. He's fucking scarred for life, man. That guy, he'll never go under a bed. What about the people that got knocked on their door with a man with a lung.

An 18-year-old with a fucking 357 wound yeah so they said that if sabetta is convicted the police department can bring additional disciplinary charges against him as well more than murder he's convicted of murder i think we can call it let's just forget it let's not waste our time with the- Bullshit union penalties. With disciplinary hearings. So this law enforcement's Bill of Rights was introduced in 1976, by the way. And there we go. So June of 1994, the trial's going to happen here. So this is, yeah, this is, by the way, right when OJ happened.

It was June of 1994. Yeah, June 12, 1994. It was OJ- Is that the verdict? Yeah. No, right when OJ happened. It was June of 1994. Yeah, June 12, 1994. Was it the verdict? Yeah. No, that was OJ killing Nicole. Oh, that was the day it happened? Yeah, June 12, 1994. I know because it's my birthday.

Oh, yeah. I remember. I was like, oh, that's an interesting one. You did that on the night of your birthday. He did, yeah. Look at him. So he made it interesting anyway. I was at Blockbuster Video.

Renting a video game oj's final run is that the game you rented on the tvs and blockbuster they they had movies on i don't remember the movies but they also had a fucking police chase wow that's weird blockbuster doesn't switch off the new releases for shit they don't fucking care it's pretty interesting fuck man so june of 94 trial day before the trial opens the lawyers take the judge and the jury to the crime scene to look at it there to kind of get an idea of the space of the place and that sort of thing opening statements now the prosecutor says sabeta was a police officer whose career is in jeopardy and he's a man who had motive for killing these young men and wounding a fourth they said he said quote five young men are working on their cars around midnight

which is a dream that sounds great for anybody five minutes later three of them are dead and another is wounded seriously the evidence will prove ro Zabetta is the man who committed this unspeakable crime. His career as a police officer was in jeopardy. He said that you're going to hear from Michael Klaus and you're going to hear from Daryl Drake. And they said, quote, he got shot under his left arm about Daryl Drake. That bullet went right in through him

and came out the other side. Golly. Wow. The defense here, they say, prosecution's case is completely flawed. Okay. They said Sabetta here, Officer Sabetta, he's a clean living young man. Oh. Clean living.

He's a police officer who went to a college math class the evening that the murders occurred. You can't do math and then kill directly afterwards. I don't know. Sometimes math makes me want to. I was going to say, it makes me want to fucking kill somebody. He said that's what happened. They said he's so good he was taking extra math classes. He's not the kind of person who could commit three murders. One maybe, but not three.

He's taking math. He could get to three. Yeah, he said that people close to Sabetta and who know him knows that he doesn't drink excessively or take drugs. Again, not requirements for murder to drink excessively or take drugs. You can just be a murderer. That's all true. Yeah. So they all the Michael Clawson testifies. Drake testifies.

Everybody of relevance testifies. The FBIifies. Everybody of relevance testifies. The FBI guys. The evidence is all presented. The bullets matching. The shit in the tree. Their only defense is, wasn't me. Is that right? Their defense is, wasn't me.

The only reason why they're saying it's my client is because he had beef with these kids. And they're saying that's motive and they're resting their whole case on motive meanwhile the gun matches the gun in the river shot both his tree and those kids so the murderer shot your tree yeah how do you fucking who's that well if it's not who's been shooting your gun at that gun at your house then? Because that guy's a murderer, apparently. That man fired 120 rounds into your tree. You should be very well aware who did that. No fucking shit. So in the closings, the defense attorney said that the state police had conducted a sloppy, intellectually biased investigation.

Just focused on my client from the beginning and nobody else. They rushed to judgment and singled out Robert Sabetta for arrest. Well, that's what happens when you get a murder suspect and you arrest him. You single him out. That's the one person we want to arrest for this murder. That's police work. Can't arrest anybody else. They said that the defense said the investigators lifted the fingerprints, but they didn't bother to find out who they belonged to.

He said they neglected to have tests performed on other items of physical evidence. He also said the prosecutor's explanation of why the Utes were slain made no sense. The motive doesn't even make sense. You know, we don't need fingerprints. We have his gun. Yeah, we don't need a motive. A motive isn't part of, that's not part of a murder. You don't need to prove a motive.

They don't care. They just need to know the how and the why. That's how and the when. Right. Far too many times at the end of these things, they all say we still don't know why. Who cares? Why? Figure out why.

Doesn't matter. They said the prosecution alleging that his career as a police officer was in jeopardy because of the complaint there. He said, quote, This motive argument makes no sense. Why would anyone kill three people and severely wound a fourth over a job? That's why it's so egregious. Yeah. That's why we're here saying what a sick fuck. That's the whole point.

The attorney general here said that the defense attorney's attack on the investigation was nothing but a red herring and that the evidence proves that Sabetta's attack on the investigation was nothing but a red herring and that the evidence proves that Sabetta not only committed the crime but also thought he could get away with cold-blooded murder. They said that Daryl Drake saw the man and tried to kill him, and the gunman was Sabetta. They said there is every reason to believe what Drake said. True, he got the caliber of the gun wrong, and he said the weapon was black, but he has no interest in this case other than seeing the correct person as prosecuted.

He picks a bet out of a lineup. He just didn't pick the gun out of a lineup. I don't care about that. I'm not making eye contact with a gun. I can see a gun and that's enough. I saw your face and that's good. Plus, after the fucking muzzle flash too you might have not you know blinded they forget yeah so this goes to the jury and they

deliberate for four hours that's fast four hours and they find him guilty of triple murder and attempted murder holy all of it all of it so at sentencing everybody's there uh they have the victim impact statements jeremy's mother jeremy bullock's mother rosalinda rosalind she says uh she says devastation and abandonment and this is a betrayal to the you know a cop betraying the thing betraying the community she said that uh these she experienced terrible things after her son was murdered. She said, He made my husband's dick hard and want another pussy. That's what he wants.

Pushed him into the arms and the thighs of another. Pushed him into the welcoming thighs of another woman. It's not fair. And I don't mean to make fun of her. Her son died, but that's a weird thing to bring up and sentence. Why bring that up? Yeah. I get it because it's ruined our family, but you could just say it's ruined the relationship.

It's just weird to be like, he's fucking another chick now. So Michael Clausen, who's the survivor here, he said, quote, I hope he gets life three times, four times. They were three innocent kids. They never bothered anybody. They never hurt anybody. Yeah. No shit. So the prosecutor urges the maximum sentence.

He says, quote, justice cries for punishment with this crime. He was a police officer. He murdered a witness in a case against him. Yeah. Yeah. This is a that's a big deal. He said what he was trying to do was commit the perfect crime, killing all the witnesses. It was an absolute execution. This does not sound good. The defense attorney said, listen, just a single life sentence will do. Just one. That's enough. He said, well, we. Yeah. He said, quote, we shouldn't punish him simply because he was a policeman. He shouldn't get a punishment for each charge. I mean, three people.

We'll just say one. Who cares? I mean, come on. They were brothers. You know, I mean, three people. We'll just say one. Who cares? I mean, come on. They were brothers, you know? I mean, come on. Same last name. We shouldn't punish him simply because he was a policeman. This case is not as simple as the state would like to make it.

He, too, was a human being and a member of society. Not anymore. He just got convicted of murder, so he's technically not a member of society anymore. What a ballsy thing to say. He's being removed and put in a place where we keep people that are not belong in society or that aren't in society anymore. If you're in prison, you go,

you in society right now? They go, fuck no, I'm not in society right now. I'm in fucking prison. They're going to be in a society for sure. Yeah. Probably the Aryan one of the Aryan variety at that point.

So he said, carefully consider his life. He has very little left. Very little left. Oh, not very little life left. Very little in his life left. He said, quote, he has a few close members of his family who stand by his side. They don't understand. He's pathetic.

He's going to lose his job, you guys. Guys, he's getting fired guys this is crazy you know how hard it is to find another job right now he's gonna have to fill out he doesn't even have a resume he's fucked he's fucked he has no computer skills it's not gonna work out for this guy it's tough around here for him shit's hard man shit's hard out here. Shit's hard for all of us. So, yeah, that's how that all goes. He said very little left. The judge, what do you think the judge is going to have a lot of sympathy for him? Oh, man, no.

No way. Superior Court Judge Dominic Cresto. Yeah. He said that, wow. Yeah, he said, this is good. All he lived for was being a police officer. Who could possibly predict his behavior in the future if he couldn't be a police officer? He called them, quote, cold blooded methodical executions.

Then called them deliberate, systematic, cold blooded executions and said that he was, quote, beyond rehabilitation. Wow. That is not good. If the judge says that to you, I rehabilitation. Wow. That is not good if the judge says that to you. The judge said that. And then he said, you, sir, may fuck off three life terms consecutive. Holy. Yeah, that's, they were asking for. You get paroled on one, start the next, bitch.

Yeah, consecutive, plus 20 or attempted murder on drake too he'll be eligible for parole when he's 78 oh really which is 55 years from the crime because that would be what it is so 78 he'll be eligible for parole god now the mother of jeremy rosalyn she gave a statement afterwards um she said said she said that he's going to serve them because she was happy that the judge said that they were going to be consecutive not concurrent she said

she spoke to the judge before sentencing she had an in chambers meeting which I didn't know you could do that I thought you had to do the victim impact on the stand only she said she pled with him to treat her son's killer harshly wow um michael clausen's mother said sabetta didn't receive the punishment he deserved quote he murdered three boys and ruined the lives of their families what more

did he want i don't know and betty clausen also said, we have to go on here. She said he still lives. His mother can still visit him. My sister. And then she started crying and wandered off because her sister has a dead son. So Lorianne Malloy, remember her? Oh, yeah. Her discrimination suit here goes on. And during the investigation, they contacted her in June of 93. The Rhode Island State Police contacted Malloy in June of 93 to ask her some general questions about Sabetta. She didn't volunteer that he said that he should either have them killed or should kill people or all that shit.

She didn't tell them that, nor did she mention knowing that he owned other weapons at all. So this is interesting. After the murder trial began, the state police received an anonymous letter claiming that Warwick police dispatcher and Cranston police officer Laurie Ann Malloy possessed information relevant to the prosecution that led them to interview her. And that interview, she revealed her to meetings and his comments about people who he might want to kill. But the state police asked her to report to their barracks for a third interview that morning. During that session, she told the state police about her visit with Duffy after the triple homicide. Duffy's the cop who shot the gun out the window of his car that time. She's a party.

She's a party. I would say so. Shit face. Boom. Boom. Let's do it. Police pressed Malloy for additional information, but she denied having any. The state police called Chief Blanchard and told him that Malloy was refusing to cooperate with them and asked him to come down to their barracks to speak with her. So the chief came down to the barracks. He prepared a letter of suspension and drove there. And as he arrived, the chief met with several investigators who accused Malloy of conspiring with Duffy to withhold information about the murders. Oh.

Yeah. So the chief then met with Malloy and didn't ask her her side of the story, just told her to cooperate with the investigation. She said she told them all she knew. So the chief handed her a letter of suspension and told her she suspended with pay until the police state police concluded their investigation into her alleged conspiracy with Duffy. So the chief also barred her from participating in training activities and from entering the police headquarters building. Banned from the property. So she was on suspension for nine and a half weeks.

That's a long time. Long time. And a sex movie. she while suspended, she received her salary, but lost the opportunity to work overtime. She said, uh, to participate in training sessions and to work on special details, all which would have provided additional pay while suspended. She also said she suffered emotional distress and damage to her personal and

professional reputations as well. On several occasions during her suspension, she was required while testifying as a witness in connection with the arrests she had made before her suspension to explain in open court why she had been suspended. Yeah. Cops have to go testify. So on every one they go, aren't you suspended right now? What are you suspended for? Oh, withholding murder investigation stuff.

We believe her. Or do we believe my client who said he stopped completely at that stop sign? That's what we have now, which is easy. I mean, that's the thing. Once one little piece of dirt, that's why they cover shit up. A lot of times with either cops, with prosecutors, things like that, they cover shit up because, yeah, football players, but with this, it's one piece of dirt. It unravels everything they've ever done.

That's the thing. Ruin a cop's credibility, and what else do they have? If a crime lab fucks up once, they're ruined. Every time a defense lawyer's that comes up, they're going to say, oh, didn't you mess this up

that one time? And they're going to go, yeah, but things are better now. And it looks suspicious. So they said that the retired police chief, the jury ends up coming back here saying whether this is discrimination or not. The jury says that Chief Wesley Blanchard acted out of gender bias when he suspended Malloy.

They find in her favor. The jury said it was compensating Malloy for sexual sex discrimination and a violation of her 14th Amendment right of due process. Yeah. So they said that a that this is a federal jury decided that a police chief acted out of gender bias when he suspended her but took no action against two male officers being investigated

for an unrelated murder cover-up. I guess they were in the same boat as her, just in a different... Okay. With a different case, and they didn't get suspended, but she did. It was like an apples to apples comparison. So a U.S. district court jury awards $23,000 in compensatory damages to Laurie Ann Malloy on Thursday. She only asked for $5,000 in lost wages.

And they gave her $23,000, the difference for physical and emotional suffering. So, yeah, she she said i answered all their questions and i don't know what this game was they were trying to play with me she's like i don't know what they wanted from me i they wanted more information yeah and they're trying to justify their actions and behavior so they need to ask more questions that's all totally uh blanchard i guess did not suspend captain joseph a duquette he was accused of obstructing uh state police in a three-year murder investigation not suspended though nor did he suspend the suspend the target of that investigation warwick detective jeffrey

scott hornoff hornoff is awaiting trial in the killing of Victoria Cushman, who was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. What a guy. Great guy. Jesus Christ. They need some better cop testing in this area. Not suspended, but she was suspended for not saying enough. So they said that the judge had told this jury to accept as a matter of law that Blanchard, the chief, had violated Malloy's right to due process and all that kind of thing.

She said that he did not, the chief said he didn't charge Malloy or give her a hearing because he never intended the suspension as punishment. He suspended her with full pay while the state considered whether to charge her for not reporting that Sabetta had made several threats against the teenagers a few weeks before. State police didn't charge her with a crime related to this, though. So she said, I thought he was just blowing off steam, and that was that. So Sabetta appeals as well. Really?

One of the things he appeals is that he didn't understand the nature of the Miranda warnings. Oh, you son of a bitch. Yeah, he's a cop, his father's a cop. And he owns a television. And he's going to tell me he doesn't fucking understand Miranda warnings? Kiss my balls, you fucking douchebag. Are you kidding me? You seem kojak. Give me a fucking break.

It's 93. Law and order's been on for a couple years now. You know your fucking rights. So they said that his contention was that his oral statement to the police, I don't want to talk about it right now, constituted an unequivocal invocation of his right to remain silent. But they said that actually requires, at minimum, some statement that can be reasonably construed to be an expression of a desire for the assistance of an attorney. He didn't say, I don't want to talk about it right now. Give me my attorney.

He said, I want to talk about it right now. Give me my attorney. He said, I want to talk about it right now. So that might mean when I get a glass of water, then I want to talk about it. Or I'll talk about it in two minutes or five fucking hours or whenever. But it's not, I need a lawyer. He treated it like a goddamn wife would treat a dinner conversation. Lawyer is the magic word. That's the magic one. Attorney, I want. I want attorney.

If you say that, then you have a case. So they said that, yeah, if a suspect makes a statement that's equivocal or ambiguous in that a reasonable officer in light of the circumstances would have understood that the subject, a suspect, not subject, might be invoking the right to counsel. They said that they do not require the cessation of questioning. You don't have to stop unless they specifically say what the fuck they want. So they also say that, as he said, the words right now operated to qualify and limit his intent to remain silent only in the regard to that moment. That's exactly what I said. claims that the trial justice abused his discretion in refusing to permit a proposed expert witness for the defense to testify concerning the reliability of eyewitness identifications. They're going to bring a guy in to say eyewitness identifications are unreliable, which they are. But if a guy shooting you from six feet away, you might. Yeah.

You got within six feet of the guy. It seems like it'll stick in your mind. It's different, and they're not strangers either. If they all have seen each other before, it's kind of familiar people. You are good at eyewitnessing them. If it's strangers, you're bad at eyewitnessing. So they were saying how they wanted to have that a psychologist. They said many factors affect a witness's memory, recoll recollection and perception including stress or observation of a weapon.

That's true too. A lot of times when there's a weapon people cannot identify the person holding the weapon because they only look at the weapon. They don't even see the person. It's just like a blur with a fucking gun. That's all they see is the gun because that's what's dangerous because that's nature. Your eyes focus in on the most dangerous thing and that's the that's the threat to you you know i suppose that makes sense yeah if there was a lion you wouldn't look at his ass you'd look at his teeth you know what i'm saying it's one of

those things so it's a nice ass on that line so yeah so that's what they said there um anyway all that shit they said that drake's identification be unbelievable, unreliable because he was shot and under stress and there was a gun and all that kind of shit. So they're going to say he shot the guy. How could he possibly know who it is? Which is a weird defense. So they also said in the division and rendering his decision on the admissibility of evidence, the trial justice expressed some doubts about its reliability. decision on the admissibility of evidence, the trial justice expressed some doubts about its reliability. The trial justice ruled in another case that it still pertains and that to allow the testimony would serve to confuse the jury more than assist it. That's what the defense is saying.

So they said there is too great a danger in allowing testimony labeled expert if the requisite reliability is absent, especially where the subject matter is within the comprehension and knowledge of our jurors. They know whether he fucking saw the guy or not is what they said. Shut up. So his appeal is not going to work, apparently. So 1996. He's appealing again. No, no, no, no.

That was 95. 1996, the families of the dead and injured people all suing him. Good. It's a big lawsuit. Wrongful death, yeah. Yeah, wrongful death. They're not only suing him, they are suing two patrol women. They're suing Duffy and Malloy as well, and the cities of Foster, Cranston, and Warwick as well.

The police departments. The police departments yeah so they claimed uh total uh filed claims totaling 14 million dollars with the town of foster last week so well first before they sued they filed the claims like okay the town you owe us 14 million dollars now it's a town with 4 000 people in it they don't have 14 million dollars obviously yeah the town treasurer, Darlene Weiss, said the town is insured for liability up to $1 million

per claim. Any excess would be paid by the taxpayers. That's how that works. So the town took no action on the claims, so the families had to file it in court. So they seek wrongful death damages against, you know, Sabetta and the towns. So they filed a personal injury suit that includes Duffy.

It includes Malloy, the cities. The suit alleges that the town of Foster was, quote, grossly negligent in hiring and or retaining Sabetta and William Asfeld, who was on duty the night, January 9th, when Sabetta knocked Frank Sherman's teeth out. That's the guy who was with him. The suit also alleges that officers Duffy and Malloy there knew of Sabetta's anger toward Frank Sherman because of Sherman's brutality complaint, but failed to notify their departments, the state police, and the foster police, and said the threats of behavior there. So the suit declares defendant Sabetta expressed anger over his suspension and the complaint had been filed against him by Frank Sherman.

He indicated he might lose his job and blah, blah, blah. So this goes on. This is 1995 this is filed. 1999 it's still dragging on. Four years. If you want to get money from someone, it's a bitch.

Because it takes years and then they can appeal. And that takes even more years and you might not get shit. It's like if you go all sue for that. Good fucking luck. You'll be dead before you see a dime. Enjoy. It so doesn't work like that. Yeah.

So the civil suit apparently hinges on whether the town of Foster was negligent in hiring and retaining Sabetta as a member of the police force. The Foster police chief, Cattell, that idiot again here, I'm going to call him. He's kind of a jerk off. He went on Current Affair. Well, let me tell you something. Get the fuck out of here. Do your job. He testified that Sabetta always seemed like a meek, quiet sort of person.

That's what he said. He wasn't vindictive or, let's say, aggressive. Then I saw violence and I did something about it, is what he said. So he's like, I didn't see it until he killed three people and then tried to kill a fourth. And then I said, you son of a bitch, I'm on top of you, buddy. Once he'd committed a triple murder, did something about that's literally what the guy said so he answered questions about sabeta and the condition of the police department and uh cattell said that on his first day in foster the police department was a mess he found

four guns in an unlocked desk drawer when he walked in there what and the desk was just not the main desk but another like auxiliary desk in the chief's office four unlocked guns just sitting just sitting there he would say i he said i i would say it caused me some concern i felt better if they were locked up me myself i'm a different type of person than the former chief and that's the way i wanted them to be you know i'm a different type of person i'm responsible with firearms not a complete jerk off he might as well have said that guy was a jerk off is what he i mean nobody's gonna rob the police station and just grab guns all these guys are trustworthy around jesus christ he said yeah

they're all ready for fucking action he said when he suspended sabeta for assaulting sherman cattell said he called sabeta told him to bring his gun badges mace and handcuffs to the police station he said sabeta arrived with a garbage bag full of police gear but told cattell he forgot to bring his gun okay so cattell said i remember it was a sunday morning my day off so i followed him over to his house in cranston and i was going to go in and he said he didn't want me to so i waited outside and he brought the gun to me he said he didn't know that sabetta had a second police owned gun which is the 357 that that's a second police gun yep he used his second service revolver wow this is he did know about Sabetta's own firearm, which is a semi-automatic. That's the.40 cal.

He said that he also kept several police uniforms after his suspension. Witnesses said he was wearing police department trousers at the time of the murders, obviously. He said the only thing I could retrieve from him would be his service revolver issued by the town of Foster. When an officer retires or is suspended, you don't retrieve their uniforms. They are their own personal property. I guess you have to buy your uniforms. I wanted his gun. That's what I wanted. I wasn't interested in any uniforms.

So there's some heated exchanges here. He said in order to carry the weapon, he'd have to have written permission there. He said, though, Cattell emphasized that Sabetta was not authorized to have the.357, even though it was issued to him. He said you'd have to have granted written permission. He had to have qualified with that gun. Granted, he did in 1990, but he did not qualify in 92 and 93. It's state law. He had no right to have that gun. state law he had no right to have that gun so it's a gun he had qualified for taken home and they just never got it back from him when he lost his qualifications so an expert for the defense testified that the correct standards appropriately were appropriately applied and complied with the

hiring of robert sabetta and did not fall below those standards they said that uh the court heard from lori and malloy as well and she said that they said maybe she maybe he should kill frank sherman and she said it was said in a long stream of as i see it frustration he was upset over the incident he was venting with friends from the police academy i didn't take it seriously so there's all of that. The ruling comes in on this here. Yeah. The Superior Court finds that, number one, Robert Sabetta is liable. He's going to have to pay. But the town of Foster is not liable for anything here. Wow.

I don't know, man. A guy didn't qualify for a weapon and he had it for two years in his possession? A town-owned service revolver that he used for murder? Your responsibility to keep track of those weapons? I guess they would have said that, well, he could have killed him with a different gun then. But he didn't, though. He killed him with this gun. That's the problem.

He killed him with that gun because it doesn't trace back to him because he doesn't have any documentation that he owns it. Exactly. That's why he filed the serial numbers off and threw it in the goddamn fucking river. So, or dropped it gently and gingerly in the river, you should say. Placed it gently in the river. Ah, that's pretty. The fish will have a nice time swimming around that. order to pay the family, pay order Sabetta to pay the families of Frank and Charles Sherman and Jeremy Bullock more than $1 million in punitive and compensatory damages. But Sabetta has not a dime to his name and no assets,

whatever's in his commissary account is what he's got right now. So it's unlikely they'll ever receive a cent out of this. The families, Jeremy's mother, Rosalyn said, it's almost ridiculous that they awarded us that money sabetta doesn't have any money at all the town should be held accountable for its actions a small town needs to be held accountable for its missing guns yeah i gotta agree with that they gotta gotta keep track of that shit they said the department lost track of

the of the gun the jury's decision that held Foster was negligent in its hiring practices, but that the negligence did not cause Sabetta to commit the murders. They said you were negligent, but you couldn't predict that. The police chief, Cattell, said it was bittersweet. He said to Rosalyn, who is Bullock's mother, quote, I'm sorry, Roz, he said before. Yeah, sorry, Roz. Roz, because they all know each other. And short for the first name, not even the first name. Not even the first name.

And he said, quote, I know, this is Cattell, I know the families of the people involved. I feel deeply sorry for them. It's been seven years of living through this thing. I got lost between a rock and a hard place. My loyalty has to be with the town of Foster. I don't know. So Charlotte Sherman Fontaine, who's Frank and Charles' mother, was granted a total of $849,338 for her loss and the estates of her two sons.

And the Bullocks were awarded $600,000. Daryl Drake was granted $227,693. He'll never get it. He'll never get it. Michael Clawson was granted $153,060 for not being shot but for having the living shit

scared out of him. The guy that took the $357,000 to the fucking rib cage got a hundred grand more not even 75 grand more five thousand dollars jesus christ so the town solicitor said he believes the families will try to collect their damages through foster's insurance carrier because that's the he did find those liabilities against the town of foster but that's in their insurance range here. So they said, this is what this guy said,

quote, he was all but fired, but there was nothing else we could have done under the law officer's bill of rights. It seems contradictory to seek damages through the town, but that's the, the position the plaintiffs have taken all along after the word, the verdict they did.

They left together the families and they said that i'm just glad it's over and all that sort of shit now i find this interesting with this whole thing because they get them i don't understand what's they they sue the town the town gives them some money but not what they're asking for right and then they say they say Sabetta's responsible. But how is the town not responsible if they didn't collect a gun that they were supposed to collect? And then he used that gun. I don't understand that. They're just hitting it with that's the guy that used the gun. That's it.

That's it. I don't know. I don't get it. But I guess it's not for me to get. He didn't shoot him. He didn't. I'm not on the jury. Yeah.

So February 27, 2000. This is right after all this. Sabetta is in his protective custody cell because he's a cop, so can't be in regular gen pop here, at the adult correctional institutions on February 20, 2000. And investigators from the state police and the ACI Internal Affairs unit and the prison special investigation unit begins a probe when they found that correctional officers making rounds of the intake center found Sabetta lying unconscious on the floor at 430 a.m. Uh-oh. Cranston Fire Department rescue crew was summoned, but the medics were unable to revive him and he died. Holy shit.

What'd he do? They don't know. They don't know. He just died died they think it might be natural causes you know heart attack or stroke or something he's like 30 years old he's not even 31 yet he's 30 baby yeah they said that uh they took him for an autopsy and uh he's dead betty clausen who's michael's mother said it's never over in my mind never over for the people involved um i have to be careful what i say

because i'm so angry inside but that family lost a son now too it's a nice thing to say wow um the catel says my condolences go out to his family and his father i feel so bad for them but i can't say that for sabetta the hurt and the harm that everybody's gone through i can't say that for him what are the chances that if he doesn't go kill these kids, he still dies of all the stress that it causes him to not? Yeah. Can you? God damn it. That's so sad.

Yeah, and he tried to kill himself fucking less than 72 hours into this. So I feel like he's never done well with this shit. I feel like he's never done well with this shit. So the families talk afterwards. Rosalind Bullock says, I had a feeling that people wanted to forget about the whole thing. So when they saw us, because they're saying that they said they never felt supported by the community with their lawsuit. They always felt like the community didn't support them in it and they should have. Yeah, because somebody told the community, if we lose, then you're paying this, not us.

Absolutely. She said, yeah, I had a feeling that people wanted to forget about this whole thing. She says, so when they saw us, it was almost like they didn't know what to say to us and they wanted to forget about it all. And that hurt me quite deeply. They said that Sabetta's death brought back their feelings of bitterness about how they were treated. She says, Bullock, even seven years later, I'm still trying to get one foot in front of the other. I'm angry with Robert because he has had the power to shatter us twice.

It's like a VCR tape you keep hitting rewind on. This is, oh, this is Michael Clawson's stepfather. It's like a VCR tape and you keep hitting rewind. If there's a big article in the paper, you need to read the article, even though you already know every word. If someone, this is Michael's mother, if someone loses a child in an accident, it's acceptable. You don't just go, well, you know, que sera, sera. It's acceptable. I guess in the totality of your life, you can accept it.

Yeah, it's certainly easier to digest. Yeah. You put it on the back burner, she said. But these murders make it even harder because they're so shocking. She said, quote, it's like he was in a war. My son says it. It's with him every day. Every day he sees it and feels it and hears it.

So, yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. They said that the sense of community that she thought was there was lacking because she said her neighbors have hardly said a word. This is the mother. This is this mother. She said everybody was so worried about that bridge. There was a bridge, the Swamp Meadow covered bridge, and they said vandals burned it down in November of 93. And the residents were so upset they took up a collection for supplies and banded together to rebuild it wow okay so she said everybody was worried about that bridge after sabeta not even a nickel not even a dollar was

offered uh we didn't do anything wrong oh that's what she said not even a dollar was offered they cared about a bridge but they told us to go fuck ourselves. Wow. And they said, we didn't do anything wrong, the family. We were in our homes and our beds, and our kids were getting killed, and we had to go on the offensive. They should have run to us to see what we needed. So they said the families waited in vain for apologies, charity, and offerings of support, but they got ugots so instead they had to file a lawsuit and they said everything in the trial of the lawsuit dredged up all the details and hearing more about

the violence and bullock uh jeremy's mother said soon after the trial the civil trial she ran into a woman that she knew their sons played little league together her dead son and this woman's live son played little league together her dead son and this woman's live son played little league together the woman told bullock she was sorry about her son but glad she lost the lawsuit yeah thanks marge thanks marge appreciate it these people i didn't want to pay another couple dollars in taxes now y'all can fuck yourselves at that point people sat around their tables and were like that money money-grubbin' bitch. Yeah. She lost her kids, you guys. Money-grubbin'

dead son bitch. Oh my God. That is fucking wild. Residents feared that a large award for the families would spike their taxes, but the town's insurance carrier said they would have paid up to a million dollars, like we said, and because the lawyers advised them

not to speak about the case until it ended the families were unable to explain so they weren't able to like make a statement in the paper why take it out on that mom why don't you take it out of your fucking police chief yeah go run up to cattell and go and get that gun back the they said that uh this is the another the mom said you usually hear about communities rallying our community community wanted to forget. She said she doesn't blame them for their reactions. She said, I don't think it was ill will at all. They wanted to forget about it. It frightened them. And they said, well, why, the anniversary of it makes her feel terrible. She said, I don't hate Robert Sabetta. I never did. I hated what he did.

But to hate somebody or resent somebody is to keep them with you in their life. I miss Jeremy terribly. That's the hardest part. So they said actually Jeremy's mother said that she considered sending flowers to Sabetta's family, actually. Really? They felt bad. Yeah. They said they didn't because they didn't know where to send them, but he said if he had an address, he would have. And he said, quote, we have no animosity because we have nothing to have animosity against.

It's, how do you say it past tense? They said after hearing that Sabetta had died, the stepfather said that, quote, I said, what do you I guess the mother burst into tears, one of the dead boys. And the stepfather said, I said, what are you crying for? And she said, now his mother has lost a son, too. That's why she deserves the fucking money. She's got a God. Yes.

No shit. She said now his mother knows what it's like to lose a son. Now we want to see it and let it end. Let God rest his soul and have it be over. So quickly 2015 an author kind of a famous author here. Thomas Cobb is his name. Yeah. He wrote Crazy Heart which was the jeff bridges movie that he

won an oscar for in 2009 uh so he's uh actually he went to rhode island i guess he was teaching at rhode island college in 2010 yeah and uh he ended up writing a novel called darkness the color of snow and it begins with a traffic stop gone bad and a young cop you know beating somebody up uh something within the cop snaps and he walks into a garage where some of the young men from the traffic stop are working and he starts shooting i wonder what that's about yeah well he said it was that yeah he said um you know he wrote it you know on purpose he said quote i live in foster so i've been thinking about this for a long time. I didn't know any of the people directly involved in the crime, but when you live in Foster,

there's not much more than one degree of separation. I couldn't help but see the damage that was done. So he said that, yeah, he sets it not in New Hampshire. He sets it in, like, upstate New York or something. He said, I'm not a nonfiction writer. I'm a novelist. But,

you know, he said it's still, he's using a real event to, like Law and Order, ripped from the headlines. Ripped from the headlines. In his, it's a guy tries to arrest a young man during the traffic stop, but they struggle, and the young man stumbles into the road where he's hit and killed by a car. So the guy is suspended, and then it goes into murder, and that's how that works. So there you go. That is Foster, Rhode Island, and a fucked-up little story of town politics, too.

That's the thing with this one. It's a lot of town politics mixed up in this shit. Oh, they fucking vilified that mom. Is that the word? It sucks. Glad you lost. Sorry about your son, but glad you lost. There's a lot to say.

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Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus materials. Anybody $5 or above, you're going to get a huge back catalog of like 200 episodes to binge on and new episodes every other week one crime and sports one small town murder and you get it all my friends this week for crime and sports what you're going to get is in-ring boxing deaths one of the worst ways to die to be beaten to death while people cheer sounds terrible that sounds like an awful way to die so we'll talk all about that over the years. It happens way too often, by the way. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about a documentary that is wild stuff. But then it ends up causing, not causing, but there's more wild stuff after it. It's called American Hollow.

These people make it. It takes place in Mudlick, Kentucky. And they make the whites look like the royal family. They really do they are just fucking really really out there it's wild some of the stories are crazy and then from it you see this terrible guy in it that's obviously got problems and then he of course kills somebody well after the documentary we'll talk about that and we'll get some updates on some of the characters and where they've gone and who has no teeth left and all that kind of thing.

So, hint, it's most of them. So anyway, that is patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get all of that. And, goddammit, you get a shout-out. And when does that shout-out happen, Jimmy? Right goddamn now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never ever pull us over,

bash our teeth in with a flashlight, and then shoot us all while we're trying to work on our fucking sweet 84 Mustang. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Christine Lee Gomez, I believe. Yvonne Henson. Yvonne Henson. And Jordan Bennett.

Congrats on your new job, Jordan. Good for you. Hey, good for you, Jordan. Congrats. That's a big deal. Other producers this week are the new high school grad, Maureen. Careful, Maureen. The world is full of cunts.

The world is full of cunts. The world is full of cunts. Peyton Meadows, Chad Novak, Liz Vasquez. Happy birthday and retirement. Look at you. Oh, Liz, working it all out. Happy, happy. On the same day. Eva Dodson, legendary sports writer Peter Schmuck,

Gorilla Monsoon's comb-over, Shitta Perlman's brother, Myron Putts. Rose Bellinger is getting married. Congrats, Rose. Janice Hill, Alexandra Jones, Christopher Almodovar, that's right. Eddie Centeno's loving memory.

Wish you were here, Eddie. Jesus, that hurts so much to say out loud. I don't know. Sucks. Harry Strange, Rhiannon Montgomery, Nicole Frenette, Owen Schneider, Manly Hilburn, Kimberly Arthur, Heather Webb, Kristen Bayless, Taryn with no last name, Daniel Nash, Manly Hilburn, Kimberly Arthur, Heather Webb, Kristen Bayless, Taryn with no last name, Daniel

Nash, Robert Cunningham, BG, Amber Antonora, Jennifer Norgate, Brandon K, Ashley O'Boy. Ashley O'Boy. I don't like... It's her last name, Negro. That's her last name. I don't know what you want it for. N-A-G-R-O?

N-I. N-I-G-R-O. Yeah. Yeah, I thought you said A. Alright, we'll move along. It's her last name i don't know what you want and i uh and agro and i and i g r o yeah yeah i thought you said a all right that's the last fucking name what do you want i don't want to say it the color in other countries there's a vinnie del negro not allowed to fucking go anywhere say it don't want to retire from the spurs and go bury your head in the sand right off in the sunset in the sunset i didn't do it elizabeth no last name marco uh azardia azard yeah uh ben of benaventure uh bonaventure no last name kristin willis donnellan uh with no last name uh terry powers anakin 97 charlie with no last name stephanie atkinson fowler sel Selena Malier.

All right, Tim Foster. I'm sure it's one of those. Shane Vergen. Shira Scott. Probably not either. Stacey Haynes. Amy Dunhe. Wren Newport.

Gabrielle Amaya. Kendra Watson. Jason Attack. Attic, maybe. Blake Tice Taylor. Brian and Cindy Price. Jennifer Chapalais, Chapalais, Chapalais. McKenna Thompson, Shea Bemont, Bemont, that's probably what it is. Kalief Ogburns, yep, off, maybe off.

Linda Maldonado, that may be Maldonado. Susan Western, Jason Allen. Shane Stevens. Ryan P. Rosette with no last name. Chatter, you prick. Shutter, you prick. All right. You shutter. You shutter.

Kate Soros. Munica. Munica Pilling. Pilling. Monica, maybe. It's Munica. Latoya Wendelbo. Risa with no last name.

Kateri Kateri. Agnes. Tyrone Bowman. Jacob with no last name. Ricky Stout.ateri. Agnes. Tyrone Bowman. Jacob with no last name. Ricky Stout. Janelle Boyer. Eva Dodson. I said that.

Thank you, Eva. You've done it twice. Thank you. Both ways. Kyle Gager, maybe. Zach Russo. The Ledge with no last name. Alexis Smith.

Micah Bailey. Walter OGB. Garth Lester. Laster. Christopher Reese. Michaela Goodsell. Bryce. Bryce Payne. Abby with no last name, Aaron Painter, Michaela. Nope, that's Phil McCracken. You fill your own McCracken.

Scottish therapist. Is it? Who is it? It's an SNL sketch. It's Phil McCracken, Scottish therapist. There you go. There you go. Janeth Herrera.

Amy Listenik. Bill Compton. Cindy L. Allenhurst. Kiki Mora. Dan Watson. Connor Stewart. Bryce with no last name. Neil Gambino.

DeeDee Heritage. Andrew Kolb. Jay Stierwald. Tennille Benadigia. Boy, oh, boy. Angie Klein Hamilton. Boy, oh, boy, Adia. Heather Nelson Leonard. Heather Nelson Leonard.

Heather Nelson. Oh, boy. Heather Nelson Leonard. That's yellow, leather, blue. What was the yellow? You almost said leather. I heard it coming. It's very yellow, leather, red, yellow. All right.

Ron Mex, 07. I believe that's a reference to Ron Mexico. Matt with no last name. Steven Powell. Jacob Moylan. Yeah. Coulter last name. Steven Powell. Jacob Moylan. Yeah. Coulter Hanson. Stanley Pierre.

Hannah Britton. Jen McDougal. Heather Langston. Kayla Parr. Bethany Belts, I believe. Belts. Nathaniel Fuller. Raven DeBryan.

Raylan. Oh, Raven and Raylan. Raylan Cooley. Katie Clark. Dawn LeBecky. Tyler Dasta. Brett Cooper. Bradley with no last name. Raylan Cooley. Katie Clark. Dawn Lebecky. Tyler Dasta. Brett Cooper. Bradley with no last name.

Nets Javel. Nets Javel. I'm never going to get these. Atticus and Benji. You got this. Daniel Schaefer. Joseph Calvey. Caesar Salad.

James Petrelka. Nathan Diamond. Sondra Lacey. Julie Ianducci. Julie Ianducci. Julie Ianducci. Oh, Julie. Hey, yo. How yous doing?

Tiffany Robertson, Adela Mali, Tom with no last name, Scott Fennell, Fennell maybe, Robin Largo, Annabelle Leaf, Rhonda Benjamin, Robert Trajana, trahant isaac rumma rumma rumma y'all go vega you are in a bad hole right now you're it's all falling apart jesus christ ryan pods david kearney kearney that you're falling off fucking hubcaps rolling down the street saide arrozgo perfect julie pryor david would no last dave would no last name joe spino joyce ola sagana what the fuck mick le chunk lil chunk bates and michelle garrity probably pat garrity's daughter stacy would no last name matt would no last name katie would no last name. Katie with no last name. Marilyn Mejia, Ann Margo, Michael Evans,

Abby Cole, Michael Schank, Adam Shriver, Natasha Warren, Donna with no last name. Kendra Dillman, Jay with no last name. Heidi Goyette,

David Hopkins, Hawkins, Hawkins, Sam Grandy, Max Gard, Ty Everett, Wendy Lambert, Crystal Lamb, Shane Muir, Kate Parker, Amanda West, not Adam West, Ian Hesacker, Jessica Calixto, Becca Drews, Jazzy Q, Emily Mullins, Schmegma in your eye, gross, Cameron Garcia, Gabrielaela Santiago Giuliano with no last name Ross Rahas Pimplekari what pimple pimple Pimplekari uh Leslie Klein uh Dixon I Damie what I don't

know what it is Ida Mae uh how do you want me to say it that makes it funny Anthony Pike and all of our patrons you're amazing thank you thank you so much everybody for all that you do for us we hope you love the bonus stuff because we love fucking making it so keep it coming thanks for your loyalty and your everything just thanks for hanging with us we really do appreciate you being there for us and

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