Small Town Murder - #397 - Stunning Brutality, Shocking Stupidity - Dumfries, Virginia

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

This week, in Dumfries, Virginia, the disappearance of a young boy, from his neighborhood produces an underwhelming police response, and the loss of vital evidence that allows an obvious monster to continue to roam the streets. This results in him, unsurprising doing it again. But this time, it's much worse. He's had the time to arrange his sick fantasies, and plan out something truly awful. And he says there's more... Will he finally be held accountable??Along the way, we find out that reggae & wine probably go very well together, that some police departments didn't know that dogs can smell things, that real life monsters do exist!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Dumfries, Virginia, strange violent occurrences such as a person dressed like Rambo and terrorizing local youth send the area into panic, but two horrifying murders really seal the deal. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogalloallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us on another insane edition of small town murder and uh this one man another crazy one for you as usual we will get to all of that just a bad bad man we'll say today sometimes it's there's circumstances and you go, oh, I mean, I could see this developing and that's horrible. And then sometimes you go, what a terrible person. Just a complete

do-over on that guy. You know what I mean? One of those. So we'll get to that. Quickly, though, just want to say, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com today. Get your tickets. August the 12th, Chicago. We will be there. It'll be our biggest show ever if you come strong for us Chicago we are going

to do a Chicago only live show as well a live show that you will only see in Chicago this year and if you've never been to a small town murder live show by the way holy shit this isn't like a college lecture where we're talking about murders it's a comedy show it's a real party it's a comedy

show you're gonna you're gonna laugh till you hurt and that's the point of murders. It's a comedy show. It's a real party. It's a comedy show. You're going to laugh until you hurt, and that's the point of the show. It's a long, funny comedy show with pictures and all sorts of good stuff and jokes and murder and death and fun shit. So get on out there. August 12th. And also available for this year are Atlanta, Couple Left in D.C., Charlotte, Philly, and Dallas. And everything else is sold out. So thanks for buying those tickets. Shut up and give me murder.com.

Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you want to go to get your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get access to everything that we put out bonus wise. A couple hundred bonus episodes to binge on when you first start. And then new ones every other week. And you get access to it all this week which you're going to get first of all for crime and sports which you will of course get access to we're going to talk about players who like to pay for sex it's a common occurrence

and we're going to talk about some very embarrassing situations that players found themselves in over the years and they are pretty hilarious and then for small town murder we're going to talk finally we've been requested tons and, and I've done a whole lot of research on it. We're going to talk about Casey Anthony. Great. Let's do it. Let's get into that because it is insane. It's a real Mandela effect.

I swore we did it already. Yeah, it was Jodi Arias you were thinking about, too. You're like, I swear, brown hair, crazy stories, you know. So Casey Anthony, patreon.com slash crimeandsports, and you get a shout-out at the end of the show, where Jimmy will mispronounce your name terribly, he promises, even though he would love to get it correct. Yeah, I'd try really hard.

That's all right, though. And also, Your Stupid Opinions, our new show, it is coming. We promise you the show is ready. We're not trying to hold it from you or delay it or anything like that. It is business stuff that we have no control over is being done. It's contracts and ads and all that stuff, and it's all being hung up. It will be out, and then it will be coming every single week, we promise. So it will happen.

It's happening soon. We'll put it on social media, and you can follow us and do all of that thank you for doing i can't wait thank you for caring we're not mad at you for caring because a lot of people ask thank you yes be be excited about it be mad it's not out yet but yeah it's coming as soon as soon as we can get it out there disclaimer time this is a comedy show everybody we're comedians there is also horrible death and it's all real nothing is made up for comic effect that's the scary part is what we talk about is insane and a lot of it's ridiculously funny and true so that makes it even weirder uh what we don't do though because we don't find the murder part of it particularly funny obviously so we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or

the victims families why james because we're assholes assholes, but we're not scumbags. See how that works? Yeah, see, there's a line and a limit. So that's how that goes. We do our best, though. But for everybody who thinks that maybe true crime and comedy don't go together, maybe then it might not be for you. That's why we're saying this.

It's a warning. It's possible. But maybe you should give it a chance. I don't know if it's exactly what you think it is. But for the rest of you that want to hear an absolutely crazy story, hear some wild stuff. I think it's time to sit back, everyone. Clear the lungs. Arms to the sky, everyone out there.

And let's all shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We are going all the way to Virginia this week. And it is kind of our second in a short amount of time kind of in the D.C. area, drivable to Washington, D.C. Because we did one in Maryland recently.

It was like that, too. This is Dumfries, Virginia. D-U-M, fries, like French fries, Virginia. And it's in northern Virginia. It's about 40 minutes to Washington, D.C. So right there. It's 12 minutes, by the way, to Quantico and 20 minutes to the FBI Academy, which if you watch like Mindhunter and all that, that's where Holden is in the basement there. And 23 minutes away from Woodbridge, which is our last Virginia episode and actually comes up in this episode as well.

So, yeah, Woodbridge is all over this thing. That was the sugar daddy death caper, the last Virginia episode, a very crazy episode. This is in Prince William County. Yep. Here. The motto here, quote, Virginia's first chartered town. What does that mean? I mean, that just means they filed stuff, right?

Yeah, I guess. Which would make their other motto make sense. Quote, we like paperwork. So I guess that's what we like to fill forms out and shit. Yeah. Come on. So a guess that's what we like to fill forms out and shit. Yeah. Come on. So a little bit of history. Settlers started coming here as early as 1690 when a grist mill was put up on Quantico Creek.

Yeah. And then they put on. One of those is. Once you get a grist mill in there. It's all happening. We've talked about grist. It's something to do with grains and. It's when they grist it all together.

It's how you make food from plants, I guess. How do I take what's in the field and put it in your mouth? Well, you're going to need this thing in the middle. So they had a warehouse also. And then, you know, all sorts of stuff like that popping up here in the 1700s, early 1700s. The town of Dumfries was formerly established on 60 acres of land and was provided by a guy named John Graham. And he named the town since he provided the land. They let him name it.

Hey, you know, I'll buy you fly type of deal here. You get to name it now. And he named it Dumfries after where he was born, Dumfries, Scotland. So, again, people leaving a place and then loving it so much they name where they've gone after it rather than just staying there. Why'd you leave so much? Why'd you leave? So it became the second leading port in colonial America, receiving tobacco from all around. And the port actually rivaled New York, Philadelphia, and Boston.

So it's on the water. Dumbfries, yeah. Yeah. It's crazy it peaked inside this is a great line from the history section of their town here dumfries peaked in size and importance in 1763 oh that's a while ago everybody that is before we were officially a country over here so if you've peaked in size and importance a solid you know almost 300 years ago that's pretty that's a lot uh it was a thriving port for about 15 years and then it started to

crash after that the revolutionary war came which didn't help it at all you know things would be everybody was under kind of blockade and. What made them not be important anymore? Was it the existence of D.C.? The war, erosion that they didn't fix, and the shift in the main shipping commodity from tobacco to wheat and sugar. Tobacco was right there. Wheat and sugar was down south more. So that was the problem there. Wheaton Sugar was down south more.

So that was the problem there. Dumfries at one point in 1950 was combined with the town of Triangle, Virginia, to form Dumfries Triangle. But the two communities were separated again in the mid-50s. They said, we can make this work. And they said, no, we can't. We hyphenated and now it's over. I'm sorry. They divorced. They divorced and they left one small blonde child

that goes to private school. It's very sad. Mom drops him off. Dad picks him up. It's from school and he cries a lot. He's a little bit sad. That's how it goes here.

So reviews of this town. Here we go. Here's five stars. Perfect. It's five stars. What could be better? Okay. I love having so much variety town here we go here's five stars perfect it's five stars what could be better here okay i love having so much variety at so many grocery stores i didn't expect that right real real that was

real grocery shopping son of a bitch right there oh uh lydell aldi walmart j and j global costco Lidl, Aldi, Walmart, J&J, Global, Costco, Shoppers, Target, Wegmans, all may not be exactly in Dumfries but are close by. That sounds exhausting. Just named all the grocery stores. Here they are. You can get food at any of these places. This person shops at all of them. All of them. Also, Prince William County's education is superb.

You will learn how to be a well-rounded student in a challenging economy. Is that what they teach you? All right, kids. By the time they're 20 out of college, who the hell knows what the economy will be then. They teach you how to grocery shop at every location. Oh, they're going to teach you where everything is at Wegmans. The frozen food aisle is in the middle at Wegmans. Every inch of the corner for your shopping basket at Aldi's.

At Aldi's. And whereas J&J, the frozen stuff is all the way at one end. See, it's different. You have to know these things. Then it's, this is great. When walking down the aisle for graduation, you'll remember all your hard fought, long cherished memories. When working retail, you'll walk down aisles learning to appreciate the complex workings of commerce. Are they joking here? When walking down the aisle to get married in Dumfries, you'll appreciate what suburbia means

to you. Everywhere there's an aisle, this person loves them. Yeah, he loves grocery aisles and wedding aisles. Is this a joke? It's gotta be, right's it's almost a joke like but i think he's being serious that's sad he's almost version to satire it's strange uh four stars it's great most of the year okay terrific okay um all of it i guess all the grocery stores the uh the west side of the costco kind of gets a little bad in the fall

next is three stars and it is just gibberish of no you can't it's not even like another language it's not even it's not serbian or anything it's i don't know what the hell it is. It's N-J-V-L-S, capital D. Just somebody went crazy. And then in all capital letters after that, that's what I think. It's boring and expensive. There you go. Three stars. I moved here earlier this year, and I'm counting down the days until the end of my lease.

In addition to my apartment situation, see my review at the end, the commute is kind of rough. I drive to and from the Franconia-Springfield Metro Station, and traffic always comes to a stop at the Lorton, Aquacon, and Woodbridge exits. Always, without fail, day and night. And that's all separate sentences and all capital letters. Always, without fail, day and night. And that's all separate sentences and all capital letters. Always without fail day and night. What's happening at all three of those exits?

Because that's the on and off point clearly for everybody. You're going the same place everyone else is going. So what do you expect? Why are they going to the place I'm going? Thank God for E-ZPass. Yes, it gets expensive, but the preservation of my sanity is worth it. Dumfries itself is okay. I live next to the 234 commuter lot.

Oh, that sounds scenic and lovely. Wow, the commuter lot. It's where they park and then get on public transportation. So everything concerning my basic needs is within a 10-minute drive. Shoppers, Walmart, Aldi's, Food Lion, all right here. They're obsessed with grocery stores. Stay away from Briarwood Apartments. What's happening there?

Well, I selected this place because of all the positive reviews. Ha! Exclamation point. Don't believe them. Joke's on me. I'm the asshole. Lies. Fucking lies.

More like Liarwood. Liarwood Lies. Fucking lies. More like liar wood. Liar wood apartments. All lies. First, it's not quiet or clean. All capitals. So many screaming and littering children with three exclamation points. Okay. Screaming and littering.

They're littering everywhere. That's a child. Yeah. Second, cops are here regularly. I spotted them coming into my building three times in my first month. Third, the units are dilapidated. Let's lead with that and then messy children can follow from there. Okay.

Two stars. Here's the last one. When we first moved in, our neighbors did introduce themselves and did offer to help with moving in, which kind of them and then they didn't that's a that's yeah what's it where's it where's this going by the way that's a nightmare hi strangers yes please look at all my stuff please be nosy and can i touch your thing can i touch all your stuff person i'm going to be living next door to but don't know at all weird the neighborhood does have a high crime rate but the area we live in is less crime prone there was a time where my car keys wouldn't easily go into my car and assumed someone was trying to break in so i started parking my car near my house

why the hell wouldn't you do that to begin with i like to park a mile and a half away i like to get a nice walk going to be able to get to my car that's what i did it's good exercise for me my phone tells me constantly how lazy i am on my on my 30 minute commute so i like to park it a couple blocks away who doesn't park as close to their house as possible if they can get those extra 500 steps i've never heard of that i like to not have my car within my view my most expensive possession i like to not know where it is just have have it be open for whatever. Just to be. The only thing I own that values in the thousands of dollars. I want to put it away from me. Way far away. I don't want to see it. I don't want to look at it, I'll tell you.

There are times where some people seem suspicious. It makes it hard to go out after eight without anyone else there. There are cops monitoring the neighborhood, which makes me even more nervous to go out after eight without anyone else there there are cops monitoring the neighborhood which makes me even more nervous to go out well who are you scared of are you scared of criminals or cops pick one you can't be both i guess you can't sure yeah i mean the alternative is is much worse i i guess i don't know well people in this town population uh 5669. Okay. So small, small little place, smaller than I would expect it to be. 53% female, way more females.

Median age is low, 30.4. So it's, it's a, yeah, there's a lot of kids, a lot of people, all the kid demographics are high.

It's like double the zero to four year olds and almost double double 10 to 14 year olds is this families that yeah work outside of or live outside of somewhere they work 35 to 54 and uh zero to 14 those are the big demographics so that those are family no old people at all it's 0.0 85 and older this ain't where they go they put you on a on a raft and just push you out into the bay once you pay an 85th. Grandma's 84. She's getting the fuck out of here next year. Yeah, that's it. So, sorry, Grandma.

Your 85th birthday party's solemn. It's very solemn. Finish your cake, Grandma. Yeah, happy goodbye party. You hear the... I have a pump pumping up a big raft out in the yard. Grandma's like eating her cake with anxiety. Yeah, that's not the bounce house, Grandma.

Grandma, it's the law. I'm sorry. So family here, it's 49% married and 36% married with children. So it's a lot of married, married with children. Race of this town, pretty spread out actually. 24.2% white. 26.8% black. 4.4% Asian.

42.1% Hispanic. Wow. Yes. For suburban Virginia, you wouldn't say, I bet it's half Mexican and half this or half, you know. I don't know, people. It's probably mixed, not just Mexican people, obviously. It's a mix. Just Cuban.

That's what people would say. Town's half Mexican. So religion here, 38.3% of the people are religious. And again, it's a mixture. It's a mixture of all over the place. Some Catholics, some Baptists, a Pentecostal or two, all over the place here. Last election, Prince William County, 62.6% of the people voted Democratic, 35.6% voted Republican, and 1.7% Independent. Unemployment rate here is a little under the national average, but in the range of margin of error kind of a deal.

The median household income here, slightly over the national average. The median income here is $57,111 a year. A little bit over. Cost of living, though, is very high. $100,000 is average. Here it's $127,000. Home cost is the high one. Median home cost here buckle up 525

thousand five hundred dollars holy shit a bit on the pricey side it's it's drivable to dc that's the problem if anywhere suburban anywhere that is a commutable to a very expensive urban area it blows up in cost it's just the way it is. It's every single city in the country is like that. That home price is like, what is that, fucking four grand a month? More than that. I have no idea. Five, 25, five.

That's a lot. That's a lot of money. It's got to be almost five grand a month. But that's median, too. That's not even like, oh, for a big house, that's a three-bedroom, two-bath house that's 1,500 square feet is going to be $525,000, which is tough. Well, and if you need to be there, though, you've got to find a place to live. What are you going to do? Get after it.

We can help. We have for you the Dumfries, Virginia Real Estate Report. report the average two-bedroom rental here goes for about 1660 a month which is above the national average um here is a four-bedroom three-bath 1340 square foot townhouse four-bed three-bath huh yeah it's attached 1340,340 square foot. So it's the size of a house with four small bedrooms. That's really wedging those rooms in. Oh, definitely, definitely.

But it's a townhouse, so they're connected to somebody else. A lot of government employees live here. It's a place where you, you know, that sort of deal. This one here is from 1974. So a 1974 condo 324 900 bucks that doesn't sound good here's a four bedroom three bath detached house it is 2250 square feet

okay it's a decent little house i mean it's a nice house not even little 2250 is a good size house four bedroom three bath it's nice it really the property it's only on like a half acre but the property seems nice there seems to be a lot of woods around and stuff like that little pricey though 539 900 bucks that's a lot that's expensive and here's a four bedroom five bath a t-bowl for each and every b-hole yeah 3788 square feet it is brand new it's boring it looks like hgtv threw it up like a cat hair ball come put your come put your stamp on it yeah and it just has white cabinets and counters and gray slate gray everything and there it is that's what it looks like very boring 890 000 Very boring. $890,000 for that though. Oh my God.

So pricey. Boring but pricey. Things to do here. It's a couple of weird ones. The Dumfries Fall Festival. Okay. Which seems kind of boring. It seems like just you take the kids and walk around and after 15 minutes you go, what are

we doing here? Like, you know, it's one of those. Get your cider and let's get the fuck out of here yeah rides bounce house yeah you know it's a couple of shit rides a bounce house family things yeah vendors food pumpkin decorating face painting yeah balloon sculpturing martial arts demonstration oh didn't see that one coming did you that fits in what should we have like a you know a fall festival for the kids? I don't know, pumpkin carving and painting and paint their faces and stuff. Jimmy's been practicing his jujitsu.

Let's have a martial arts demonstration for the kids so they can strive for something. A canine demonstration. I don't know, is that like the law enforcement? I'm not sure. Is that Quantico canines? And a magic show after that. So I don't know what's going on. And I believe the concert will begin featuring True Soul is one of the bands.

Tony Craddock Jr. Got to have him, Tony Craddock Jr. Cold Front and Faces You Know. F-A-Y-C-E-Z. Letter U. No. Oh, my God. That sounds bad.

This is all so bad. I think they're headlining, too. Nobody's ever heard of any of those people. Faces you've never heard of. Next up, didn't know this was going on in suburban Virginia. The Virginia Reggae Wine Fest. Oh, is that right? That sounds fun. That's good shit. Wine virginia reggae wine fest oh is that right that sounds fun that's good

shit wine drunk with reggae music playing that's a good time no one's gonna be upset at that you'd be like yeah fuck yeah wine drunk with bob marley that sounds awesome yeah by the way bob marley obviously will not be there due to the fact that he's been dead for nearly half a century. So long, yeah. But I do have the posters hilarious. Is it live music? The lively event promises a day filled with fantastic music. Doesn't say whether it's live or not. Delicious food, great wine, and great company. You can't guarantee that.

I might hate everyone there. Here are the details. Okay. Let me slide over. Look at this shit. There it is. They've got Bob marley they have a picture of but looks like he's holding a glass of wine that's bigger than him by the way is the way

they've photoshopped this a waterfall of smoke falling out of his mouth is that what that is i believe so yes that's smoke this is ridiculous uh bob marley will certainly not be there but uh it says also maryland and virginia's top reggae bands and they show a picture of people performing so i assume there will be life all inspired by bob marley all inspired by bob marley like bob marley come here he won't be here but you'll like the rest of it you can bring in tents and umbrellas and chairs. You're allowed to do that. Strictly no outside alcohol, though. Oh. None.

You ought to comply with regulations. Kids under 12 are free. That's not bad. Bring the whole family to get drunk and dance to reggae. The kids have to learn that this is fun at some point. We're going to all Uber there because I can't drive my kids home after this. You sit them down and you go, listen, son, white people drink wine and dance to reggae. Okay?

Now get in this stranger's car with me. Come on. Let's go. Hop in. Daddy's getting shit tanked tonight. What the fuck is happening? Oh, I love it. Must be.

Bring the kids. Drive them down. Have a bunch of wine. Listen to Bob Marley and drunkenly swerve home with your kids. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're going to get hammered and you're going to have like three little birds playing on the way home while you fucking veer off into a telephone pole.

And I'm a doorstep. Pow. And your kid goes through the windshield because you forgot to strap him into the car seat because you're too tanked. You're like, strap yourself. You got this. You've seen me do it a ton of times just climb in uh this bottle all this bottle three little birds so the boots there will be

serving what they're calling the best jerk chicken oxtail and curry chicken around too which i'm into that let's get on with that shit i love jerk chicken so is oxtail good yes it is it's very good yeah yeah it's good oxtail's good shit it's. Let's get on with that shit. I love jerk chicken. Is oxtail good? Yes, it is. It's very good. Is it? Yeah, it's good. Oxtail's good shit. There's meat on it.

You eat it off of it. You never had that shit? You never ate peasant food, really? Nope. Anybody ever serve you chicken feet? Nope. Nope, yeah. You don't have a grandmother that grew up.

We didn't have the odd parts. We just had the regular parts. Yeah. You don't have a grandmother that grew up. We didn't have the odd parts. We just had the regular parts. Yeah. You don't have a grandmother that grew up in a war torn country hiding from Nazis and shit. You eat the feet because that's what you have. Like, you know, I had that. So don't miss this opportunity to celebrate the best of reggae and wine culture in the heart of Virginia. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, property crime about 20% high, a little bit high. Now, violent crime, which you would assume would be low because the FBI, Quantico is right there. You'd think that they would profile that up no problem and have it done. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is very low. It's only one- third of the national average.

So I feel like they're going, maybe I shouldn't kill someone with the FBI right here. They can probably hear it. They can. They'll know what's going on. So that said, let's certainly talk about some just awful murder. This is I'm going to tell everybody right up front here. Bad one. Like we had last week with Rhode Island and that guy.

That was a disturbing one. A lot of people were a little like, oh, Jesus, that was a tough one a couple weeks ago there. This one also very, very brutal shit here. This is tough stuff. So if you're very sensitive, just keep an eye on the skip forward button because there will'll be a lot of comedy in between don't skip the whole damn episode don't go crazy here but make sure you got the finger hovered over the 30 second skip so anyway michael carl george let's talk about him okay regular spellings michael carl with a c george all right so not george michael michael All right. So not George Michael. Michael George. Yeah. He's born in 1957. This man. He is from Hartwood, Virginia.

And that's where he grew up anyway. And he has a lot of not a lot's known about his early, early life. We know that his parents were divorced at some point. And that he's kind of spun out of control when his parents got divorced. He couldn't handle it. He lost his fucking mind. Now, he was he was a kid with his faculties when it happened though when it happened and this is early 60s this happened which small town early 60s divorce meant shame and scandal and the kids made fun of you and you were uh you know and they did too yeah you're the reason they

did it and all this stuff yep the. The kids made fun of him. And, you know, you got divorced parents. Like, that wasn't a cool thing back then at all. I mean, by the time we grew up, it was like people would be like, yeah, my parents. And I'd be like, they're still together? Wow. For real? What a dork.

Yeah. Wow. That's weird. What's that like? You fucking nerd. Yeah. Sitcoms were like, get the fuck out of here. What, did they love you or something? Yeah, come on.

These people wouldn't still be married. They've already had three children. What are they going to be married still for? It's over now. She sure puts up with a lot of his shit. Yeah, I don't think that's very realistic at all. I don't think. Why does Peg even stick around?

I don't get it, man. Yeah. Well, what else? What's Peg going to do? Yeah, I don't know. Peg refused to do refused to do anything anything yeah she had no agency she had to stick around she she's a little unrealistic but still there so michael carl george he's got some problems after his parents get divorced people start picking on him a little bit for it and for other things too he's a weird fucking kid let's be honest about it he's a

weird kid now we don't know which came first the chicken or the egg or the weird or the divorce we're not quite sure maybe he was so weird he got this he ruined his parents marriage we don't know it's possible it is possible the that happens strain sometimes that happens even with like a sick kid where it's nobody's fault nobody did anything wrong a kid A kid's sick. It's a lot of strain between the parents. They end up getting a divorce because they just fight a lot and you lose the spark or whatever. So welcome to the small town of Chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band

called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. His came out a little different way. early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. He, his came out a little different way.

Sometimes you figure maybe be cutting up at school. Maybe he puts a cherry bomb down the toilet, middle school, you know what I mean? Gets in trouble. No, no. He tortures animals.

That's what his thing is. What? Yeah. So it's a little beyond. Yeah. Yeah. Neighbors, pets and shit like that he was accused in his early early teens like 13 14 of killing pets belonging to neighbors jesus like if you did a

chart and a map of where the pets were missing it was like his house is in the middle and all the pets are missing around it yeah it's like arachnophobia where they're like, where is the epicenter of it all? Oh, shit. It's right there. So that's a problem. A woman named Ann Elizabeth Hoyt said that George, Michael George here, tortured and killed her rabbit and dog. Two different pets. Cats would disappear.

Dogs would disappear. And apparently he was just torturing animals and killing them. And that was obviously an issue. But in the early 70s, I don't think people knew exactly how big of a red flag that is. Yeah, it wasn't thought of like it is today. Oh, your kid starts torturing animals. You take that kid directly to a psychiatrist and pretty much leave him there for a while. I'll be out in the way.

Don't just leave him for good. Say, I'll be out there, but you have got to have some serious conversations. This is bad, bad stuff. There's obviously something. Don't come home until you don't want to do that again. Yeah, there's some deep-seated shit going on there when it comes to animal torture. That's a terrible sign for the future and future behavior. So he didn't do bad in school but didn't do great in school. to animal torture. That's a terrible sign for the future and future behavior.

So he didn't do bad in school but didn't do great in school. He went to Woodbridge High School there. It was Garfield High School in Woodbridge. He ranked 109 out of 555 students in the graduating class. So just kind of middle of the road, kind of a guy yep and that's kind of how everyone remembers him a woman named pan uh pam conlon who was the president of the senior class so a popular person president of the senior yeah i guess yeah there's all class president yeah all the time he was a prick so she's probably successful at this point and shit i assume

that's what i always assumed she has She's on a boat a lot. I didn't even know, not that I wanted to run for anything, obviously, but I wouldn't even know where to paperwork, where to get it, who to give it to. Where do I get the form to say I want to do that, and then who do I give it to, and then how do I do it? I wouldn't have known any of that, especially as a teenager. I was so not involved. I already forgot that there was a president yeah who knows yeah i just

see posters up i like wow people made those wow that seems that was made on like a computer holy shit like so-and-so for president holy shit that's wild i just want to go smoke weed in the parking lot this is crazy they're gonna stay after school and do school shit like on purpose. Right. Because you love. Can I smoke weed while I stay here? Is that possible? Volunteer. Wow. That's just for free.

Huh? Freezies. No extra credit. Nothing. Just doing it. He was a pretty quiet guy. Pam said. I remember him vaguely.

In other words, I don't know. I was popular and he wasn't. So I was present. He doesn't anywhere near it. Yeah. You know what I mean and he wasn't so yeah i was present he he doesn't anywhere near it yeah you know what i mean he wasn't an athlete or anything she says oh well why would you know him then completely dismiss him god forbid he wasn't an athlete i don't know the boy he's just a person i remember seeing but not someone whom i've ever socialized with yeah beneath me yeah class president all those girls at my school said would say about me too yeah yeah probably yeah i don't

know neither of us did anything that have any note to where they actually they would remember buying weed off of me i assume that would be the thing i remember i bought weed off of him because hot girls still smoke weed but But outside of that, no. Was that the guy who swallowed weed? No. Okay. Then I don't remember him at all. Totally.

Who would know? So he started, as he gets older, though, in his teen years here, not only is he doing the animal thing, he starts taking what people call a peculiar interest in young boys huh yeah peculiar for a teenager younger than him as a teenager like he's you know 15 16 younger than him oh kids you wouldn't want to hang around with unless it's a different school yeah unless he's either a pervert or a little slow you know what i'm saying one of the two so he doesn't seem to be a little slow based on where he graduated and everything so it seems like psychotic not good

and he was always everyone said always in the company of young men they called it just boys younger than him always if you'd see him outside of school he's 15 he's hanging out with a bunch of 11 year olds weird weird weird guy you know and some of that little brother no i don't think so and some of that's a personality of like i want to be in charge so sometimes they'll round up a crew of people younger than them that they can boss around that's not what he's doing though that's not doing that at my school so this school is very easy exactly that's a this isn't exactly what's going on here with him so he graduates from high school in 76 and he in 1978 he gets in trouble minor petty he shoplifted a calculator from radio shack

that's easy yeah he got caught shoplifting a calculator which a calculator in the 70s was still like like 150 that was a lot yeah and school requires it and my mom won't buy it, guess what's happening? I'm stealing it. I don't know what his reason for stealing it was, but he ends up serving 10 days. Oh, he's not in school. It's 1978.

He graduated two years ago. Right. So I don't know what it is, but he ends up serving 10 days in jail on a petty theft conviction for it. 10 days for that? Got 10 days in jail on a petty theft conviction for it. 10 days for that? Got 10 days for that for a calculator, which is interesting. That's pretty steep. So he gets out.

He's just kind of floating. He's interested in computers kind of because computers are just starting to be something you could be interested in. So he's got kind of a, you know, his interest has peaked a little bit here. So he's got kind of a, you know, his interest has peaked a little bit here. So he's floating around. On May 22, 1979, okay, there's a young boy named Larry Wayne Perry. And Larry's nine years old. Larry Perry. Larry Perry.

And his mother's name is Mary Perry, by the way. Get out. Yeah, Mary and Larry Perry. So Larry Wayne Perry is nine years old. His parents are divorced. mother's name is mary perry by the way get out yeah mary and larry perry so larry wayne perry is nine years old his parents are divorced um you know he's he's had a he's having a hard time too as a kid but he's he's fine nice kid his parents are divorced and he's not even living with either of his parents at this moment in time oh wow he's living with his maternal grandparents in a trailer in dumfries while you know while his parents settled a divorce and sorted out and that's what happens to a lot

if you're young parents especially and you break up then you got to figure out living arrangements and all that sort of stuff so it's probably a more stable environment growing up with the maternal grandparents here so he's at the trailer with his maternal grandparents and he eats dinner with them at home and he takes off outside at about 8 p.m really yeah which it's may 22nd 1979 so it's it's it's dusk by the way right it's getting dark and it is you're the kids nine and yeah you don't know i think after, it's getting dark and it is, you're the kids nine. And yeah, you don't know.

I think after supper, it's getting dark. It's okay. And inside time now there's gotta be a TV show you like or some shit or whatever, but it's not go out and play time. And probably on the East coast, he's probably still in school.

Yes. He might be out now, but yeah, I don't know about down in Virginia, but like in New York, the school doesn't get out for another two, three weeks. So you definitely be in school at this point. I don't know about down in virginia but like in new york the school doesn't get out for another two three weeks so you'd definitely be in school at this point i don't know where he's going i don't know where he's going but he's headed out i mean his grandparents this might be a thing he does every night after supper he goes and plays for a little while comes back but it seems a

little late for me um he goes to dumfries School. He's in the special education program there, but he has no physical or mental disabilities. But nowadays we'd say he has autism, but like a slight autism. Yeah, that would be the best way to put it than whatever. So they said that at that point he's in there, but he's you know not like i said you wouldn't know anything to talk to him or anything he's fine you know he's not doesn't have he might be behind because he's got a uh parents that are going through divorce too and there's that too i think you mix that with some slight autism and you you get a kid who just needs a little extra attention at school which is fine but there's nothing know, he doesn't have any physical disabilities or anything like that. So he runs around, he's playing, and they,

this is Old Stagecoach Road in Dumfries, by the way, where he's running around. And it's about a little after 7.30, 8 p.m., and they look around, like, oh, where the hell's Larry? Where is he out there? And they don't see him. Yeah. And his grandmother's name is Mary,

and his grandma's like, oh, we don't see him. Where is grandmother's name is mary mary and his grandma's like oh we don't see you know we don't see him where is he but not anything big deal he runs around a lot maybe he went in the woods with some other kid and they're playing around who knows that's what kids do they run around so then he doesn't come home for a while though and the grandparents go oh we should go out and look for him so they go out and have you seen little larry and larry him. So they go out, and have you seen little Larry? And Larry, Larry. And they can't find him. Where's Larry? The other kids said they haven't seen him. So where's Larry? It was his birthday the day before, too.

So, I mean, that's something. Probably just got a new bike for his birthday. He's out there riding it. A little extra jacked up, you know. Hell, yeah. When you're a kid, any of the time, like the whole month of your birthday, you have a real high going on. It's my month.

Yeah, he just ate leftover cake for dessert tonight. Absolutely. Supper, they said, do you want some leftover ice cream cake with the crunchies in it? And he said, it's got crunchies. Give me those crunchies. Yes, I do. So that's how that goes. His uncle now is around looking for him as well. And his uncle said he saw him earlier near a blue and white Ford Bronco.

He said, yeah, I saw it because they said, has anybody seen him? He said, oh, I saw him running around earlier. I drove by there and saw him. He was near a blue path of, you know, kind of an off-road road, you know, dirt road that leads to the power lines, which is a utility right-of-way between the I-95 and Route 234. Back east, power lines are a big deal. People go to hang out and party at power lines because it's a giant clearing in the woods is how they do it. There's a road that's there for the maintenance of those. Yeah. So you can get to a giant clearing in the middle of woods where no one can see you. So that's a very popular hangout place for teenagers of the East Coast power lines. Always a, you know, a popular spot. So they,

they're going to the power lines there and they see that's, it's often used as a place where little kids play too, because it's a big open space. So the family looks for him for a couple hours, and then finally they notify the police around 11.30 p.m. Oh, God. They can't find him still. So that's scary. Yeah, and now it's getting late. So this is, now he'd be tired by now.

What's going on? He's not just playing with, there's no other kids in the neighborhood out at 11.30 either. Now what's going on? He's not just playing with – there's no other kids in the neighborhood out at 1130 either. He's either at somebody's house playing and he lost track of time. Either way, he's in a lot of trouble when he gets home. Yeah, or he's already been in a lot of trouble that you have nothing to do with and it's not good. So the police, though, they call around 1130.

The police, though, do not do a search until the next afternoon. Huh. around 11 30 the police though do not do a search until the next afternoon huh back then in 1979 it was whether you were 9 or 40 if you disappeared they didn't look for you right away still what the fuck because they considered you possibly a runaway and they didn't want to waste police resources acting like you've been you know kidnapped whereas a nine-year-old i would say probably less of a chance of a runaway than if it was a 16-year-old or something. How about we get the cops out doing some roundabouts, and then if something emergent comes up, we'll peel off.

Nope. They said, keep an eye out for him. He's 4'8", 68 pounds, dark brown hair, brown eyes, has a scar on his left ear, a scar on his left cheek in the left side of his forehead he was wearing a pullover shirt possibly with a superman logo on it four foot eight sixty five pounds of vulnerability and we're gonna let that unbelievable he'll be fine till tomorrow i'm sure he comes home we'll give us a shout until then we'll look in the morning he could be out drinking and partying and getting women we don't know maybe eight 65 pounds ever heard of an all-night

poker game it's possible he's out there he's playing poker he could be up a couple hundred we don't know you know we don't know what he's doing kid you can't interrupt a kid with a hot hand no that's he could suppose he's shooting dice right now. Remember Randy on the wire? He got hot. You want to pull him out of that game? He learned. Wow. He learned statistics.

You take that away from that kid, he's going to get real mad at him. Yeah, I'm telling you. That's how it is. All they have is he was last seen running after a four-wheel drive vehicle going down a dirt road near the trailer there. That's it. So the next day, they said, well, now we'll investigate the possibility of maybe foul play. Good Lord.

We'll investigate. Once we're pretty sure something bad happened to him, then we'll look into it. But when we could prevent that, we're going to leave it. We're not going to bother. We're going to wait until this is a motherfucking challenge. Yeah is i mean yeah we could have just you know blocked off an area where it's an eight-year-old nine-year-old he couldn't have gone too far and then you know move in from there and all found him the night before but you know what let's give him a chance

to really make a run for it possibly or for terrible things to happen to him one of the two we feel more accomplished when we catch him after a couple days. Yep. Jesus Christ. It's a little more challenging that way. And, you know, to be quite honest, it's good for our egos. It just makes, as an investigator, you really need to have an ego boost once in a while.

Kind of know that you're on the right path with things. Yeah. Test us. So the police searched the woods behind the family's home, behind the trailer there. They get no clue at all. No clues. Can't find anything. They said now they're concentrating on determining whether foul play was involved in the disappearance or what.

If he hopped a freight car to Mexico, he's nine. If a nine-year-old is missing for more than a couple days there's foul play involved yeah he didn't start a new life somewhere else he moved to chicago and became a fucking carpet salesman no he's he's not missing he's he's missing something bad's happened what i'm i'm just perplexed by that that that's even a policy that they could have with a straight face that they say that makes sense right yeah someone wrote that down once and they all nodded along and said yeah so the police they're searching the woods no clues they assumed at that point in 1979 the prince william police they said assumed that just missing children either had run away because back then they still they even

though the 70s were just you know huge with crime and murder and everything they still had especially in a small town down south and not really a down south of virginia which is down south they had a the mindset of well no one's gonna steal a nine-year-old it's just not who does that you know what i mean it's a small town it's safe around here that happens in dc that happens in but a runaway is still not okay nine or they you know sometimes they just went to a friend's house and forgot to call their parents you know something like that which yes does happen but it would take minimum police work to find that out and make sure he's not been disappeared by somebody awful is not happening yeah let's just try you know what i'm saying let's just give it a shot

here so they said if there was no signs of foul play they just went along with well he must have just went to somebody's house that was said by a senior homicide investigator in the prince william county police department unbelievable that's what they said um there was an investigation senior homicide investigator in the Prince William County Police Department. Unbelievable. That's what they said. There was an investigation for at least 72 hours after the disappearance is reported. Now they're going all into it. Mary Perry, the grandmother, said a police officer visited the home and she says this about the visit. Quote, the only thing I got out of him is that you have to wait a certain amount of

time before making a search. I't that's wow for a child let's let's never wait and how many parents too would if they say my nine-year-old's missing and they go well we wait a certain amount of time how many parents would freak out and go are you my ass you're gonna wait a certain amount of time well you're gonna get the fuck out there right now or I'm going to fucking blow your house up. Like, what are we talking about here, Charlie? Charlie the cop, I know you. We went to high school together.

Worst case scenario, I'm mad at this kid for the next week. Best case scenario, I guess, is the word. You know what I mean? Worst case, you assholes look way worse for waiting three days to go look for my child. My mind is boggled by that. I don't know how any kids grew up and made it to maturity back in the day because you could just be kidnapped and taken away and they wouldn't even bother looking for you until you were floating in a ravine somewhere. Your kidnapper gets a three-day head start.

It's not bad. You get pretty far away how far can you get you get to australia that far jesus nowadays these cases are handles handled as abductions from the minute a child is reported missing they'd rather handle it like an abduction and find out that they're sitting playing xbox at somebody's house that one of their friends houses then not treat it that way. Hiding in the center of the shirt rack. Fucking. Find them in a dumpster behind the subway.

You know what I mean? So Mary Perry criticized police for moving too slowly through this whole thing. She criticized them the day after poor little Larry disappeared. She said that the family pressed the cops for quicker action. A friend of hers that had some connections actually called just what she called a, quote, Richmond official, someone in the state government. Richmond's the capital of Virginia. So someone in the state government who Perry, the grandmother, believes was a delegate or a senator or somebody like that, a state senator, to complain. Mary said, I think they waited too long before they started, and once they got going, they didn't stick with it.

Yeah. So they wait a while, and then once they do the search, they don't really do that that well either. They take a lot of breaks? They're just hanging out like, I don't know, this kid's who knows you know these kids these days they join the circus who cares they're sipping coffee probably went to hollywood trying to make it in the pictures you know what i mean what are they thinking fuck are they thinking so one officer who is involved in this investigation acknowledged there was a problem in the initial response to the case because all of the cops believed larry was just a runaway sick man they said was anything this is

the thing too yes he was in a different place because they said oh he lives with you guys and his parents are divorced he's probably trying to get to one of his parents that's what they do these kids that that was their thing we'll find him still right he's still out there is that good he's hitchhiking he'll make it to his mom's house don't worry about it he's not at his mom's he's not as his dad so he's somewhere between here and there let's find where that is well he'll make it there or come back one of the two it's fine so yeah they said though that they believed that happened once the investigation geared up he said though it was a thorough investigation after that though he disagrees with mary in that regard within a week though the police department's criminal investigations department takes over the case it

took almost a week wow to make this like hey maybe a crime occurred we should look into it rather than just you know larry larry well we can't find him you know he's he's playing nintendo or artari it's 1979 he's playing pong right now it's fine so they said that uh initially the investigators with the most homicide experience were involved in other cases too so they had like secondary guys involved in this as well. One of them here, an investigator who asked not to be identified. Please don't say my name. Don't say my name because especially this quote, we were stretched to the limit. We had a triple homicide we were investigating.

There were other cases that needed to be pursued. So they said basically we were busy. Yeah, but just plumb busy. That's what it is you know what got a lot of stuff going on i'm sorry your nine-year-old is missing and who knows what happened to him but we have a lot of other stuff going on right now we don't have confirmation super busy when he when he when he is then we'll have a fourth murder to look into. Okay. And how is the nine-year-old missing for a week, not a priority, and put that right up there with a triple murder? And how do you not ask for help, call the state in? I don't know. The FBI is right there.

Go ask them for help. We have a missing child. Want to fucking help us maybe? I don't know. Somebody. If you've got a triple murder and there's a child missing who's to say and you have nobody in custody for a triple fucking murder investigating somebody capable of killing three people and you've got a child missing perhaps he's with that fucking person

we don't know we have that's the problem is we have no idea maybe that triple homicide was a you know a guy who killed his whole family in his house and they need to do the investigation right to have everything in court whatever the case is there's a nine-year-old that's that should take some form of precedence of let's get help in here for this you know so michael carl george remember him our friend from the beginning there yeah our animal torturing asshole who likes young boys yeah yeah uh well he apparently was known to frequently drive to the power line cut behind the perry's home to go target shooting that was his spot back there to target shoot so he because he's seen there a lot is questioned within the first couple days looking for perry hey, have you seen this guy, this kid? Because basically not as a suspect, just as you go back there a lot, did you see this kid run by you when you were back there?

And he said, no, I don't know, shit, I don't know anything about that at first. I don't know anything. They said, well, they said you're blue and white Ford Bronco that you have. Someone said that you had seen, you know, he was seen near you. And, you know, what's up with that? And he went, that is weird. I don't know. Just gave a kind of kid.

Not really sure, but I don't know where the kid is. You know, should I? I'll help you find him if you want. I'll join the search and everything. I really want to help with all this. This sounds terrible. So the kid. So George was visited by police shortly before 1 a.m., by the way, when Larry had been missing for 29 hours.

Just when they were trying to find him, like you saw him, maybe, was he like, did he make a treehouse and he was going up to live in it? Did he tell you? Was he carrying a bindle? Anything. Awake at 1 a.m., huh? So, I don't know if he was awake, but they went and banged on his door. awake at 1 a.m huh so i don't know if he was awake but they went and banged on his door so george here michael george he just tells police that you know what i did i said i see kids all the time back there i don't remember which day he goes i did see this kid that you're talking about

larry uh he entered the power lines he goes i had just come in here with my bronco and he said though i left the area about 9 30. And when I left, I didn't say he wasn't around still. I don't know where he was. I didn't see him. He, I saw him around the area. He must've taken off.

I don't know. So yeah, just briefly talk to him. That's about it. And so they went, well, that's all right. Well,

we, they look at it as, okay, well, we know he was Michael that we know that, uh, uh, Larry was in the,

in the power line area around that time. That's the way they look at it, like trying to build a timeline for where he was seen. Okay. That's it. And so they talked to George again, Michael George again, and the next day, and he said the same thing. And they talked to him every few days just to say, you know, so was it this time or this time? And they never consider him a suspect or anything like that. They never get like a search warrant for his house.

They just talk to him real casually as a witness who saw him. Yeah, the last person that saw him so far. That's it. So they don't consider anything. So they're searching for him. This goes into weeks they can't find Larry. Weeks. And Michael George offers to participate in the searches

which a lot of the local people were doing it was a very common thing anybody who was a half decent person was like shit i'll join in we see this all the time when kids are missing hundreds of people walking around the woods shouting their name so how much pto they have good for them so much so much it's like looking for will in season one of stranger things we've seen that a lot just out there wandering around just wandering around i feel like in a small town if you if everyone's going to quote search for the boy i figure they you know they'll give you vacation days on that they'll pay you still right you might like look like a dick if you don't go yeah that's what'm saying. They might dock you for that shit. So they searching for Larry.

He's obviously, like I said, agrees to participate. He even drives around. They would go into like teams. He drove around Larry's grandfather, John. Oh, Mary's husband and his Bronco. So they drove around. Later on, the grandfather said that his car was spotless. The Bronco was just on the inside immaculate, he said.

He did say that he saw a gun in the front seat. And he said he generally felt uncomfortable being around Michael George. He didn't know why, but he was kind of uncomfortable. Just didn't have a good feeling. It was uneasy with him there. So they're searching and searching around. John Perry remembers that he saw the gun was holstered in the front seat. And he said he didn't say anything the whole time we rode around, John Perry says.

Whole time. I couldn't wait to get out of that car. Just creeped him out. Gave him the creeps, he said. So this is, you want to get your mind boggled jimmy this is we do small town murder and things happen where we go fuck me you know this the problem with this is a small town police department who doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground and this is one of the biggest errors possibly we've ever heard of here. This is incredible. So seven weeks later, seven fucking weeks later, all this time, almost 50 days later, police finally bring in a canine search unit.

Two months. Do you know why they didn't bring them in sooner? No. They had to wait for them to be born they had to train them quick the no it's worse than that not they didn't have any they had to train them the local police department was not aware that sniffer dogs existed they didn't know you could get a dog to search for a fucking missing person the police department 50 years ago the 50 it's fucking 43 years ago 44 years ago this happened

in almost exactly 20s they had dogs chasing people down in the 1800s they had them do that in prisons they had dogs bloodhounds would go search for prisoners in the woods. They did it with fucking slavery in the South. They had dogs. This is crazy. They didn't. I'm going to say it one more time. The police department wasn't aware that there were dogs that existed that could sniff and find a human being dead or alive weren't aware of it

do they know about guns yet wow my head exploded when i fucking read that i wanted to lose my mind y'all telling me there's a dog that could smell people well hold on now wait a second a particular person now i'm only looking for one boy now he could find a hundred boys that ain't the boy i'm looking for right so there's hundreds of dogs that could do it hundreds wow um alice stanley of the virginia search and rescue dog association she said quote obviously had the dogs been used earlier in the search, they would have been more effective. Clearly, yeah. Of the Virginia Dog Rescue Organization.

Yes. There's an organization that exists in your state, and you're unaware of any dogs existing. And it was this lady's dog who participated in this whole thing. This whole, they could have just looked it up in the phone book, asked around. None of the other thing. FBI is 20 minutes away. Make a phone call. Hey, local police department.

We think a kid might be missing or dead or some shit. Any tips? Any way to find people? Dogs, huh? Weird. Anything? Don't say. Ask around.

The yellow pages? All right. Wow. Dog stuff. And eventually they would have found it, right? Somebody? Unreal. My mind is blown.

That's one of the biggest errors we've ever heard of in a police department. Not that they didn't do it because they didn't know they existed. I've never heard of such buffoonery. No, they didn't believe in the science of it. No. Didn't know it was possible at all. Dogs thinking they're smart. Dogs ain't smarter than me.

In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener.

Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. I can't find him with my nose so I could hear.

Wow. I'm blown away by this. So the police finally, after several months, we're talking three, four months, they finally, they have no other leads. Nothing. There's no, everything's a dead end. The only lead they have is Michael George saw him in the woods by the power lines for a little while and then he didn't see him anymore. That is the last human being to have any months months they go by and they finally said okay so they start talking to michael george and they question him on hey you ever have any

girlfriends or anything like that yeah and he's like you know kind of standoffish about that any kind of uh this is weird casual conversation too so yeah you got girlfriend i'm married myself you got a girlfriend or anything like that no no because you know they're trying to keep it casual while gaining information you don't have any uh sexual problems or anything do you anything like that any issues any you know what let's talk about this is amazing how would a cop put this by somebody let's talk about you ever have any homosexual experiences? Was the way they put it. Ever be in camp like a month, really missing home? You ever seen a man naked? Ever seen a grown man naked?

They're basically asking him that. They're very casually trying to figure out what his deal is. And basically, I'm surprised someone didn't just burst in the room and go, do you like to fuck kids or what, you scumbag shit? You want to fuck little boys, do you? So they asked him about that. They ask around, and all of his friends and people who know him say, he's always a weird thing.

He's always in the company of young boys, if that means anything can help you guys out. So they're like, yeah, that's pretty much the info we're looking for that helps a lot yeah so finally in march of 1980 10 months later or nine months later they have no leads they ask michael george to take a polygraph they go just you're the only thing we have so we're going to basically keep talking to you every week unless you clear yourself, basically. Take a polygraph. So if you pass that, you're cleared and nobody has to worry about anything. We won't talk to you anymore.

I heard of a polygraph, but not a dog that sniffs. Not a dog that sniffs. Nothing. Yeah. You ever hear of, there's this new thing called TV. It's pretty good. There's shows that come on and people, girls dance around. You're going to love it.

Next you're going to tell me about a cat that digs. Oh that digs oh man forget about it cat that can hide its own poop i don't believe it for a minute so they get him in there and they have the department's most experienced investigators enter the case finally after nine months they're like we should start taking this seriously let's get our good cops on it now wow um so they they persuade him to take a test it comes back inconclusive which is useless basically so years go by next year or two not 20 years but the next year goes by not much is happening here 1981 there is a report that someone has seen larry oh there's a report of a larry sighting oh so they're getting very the grandparents are really you know excited and they're trying to track this down to see if maybe he was kidnapped and he's being held somewhere. What part of the description made them, he's still wearing the Superman shirt? I saw him getting a Superman shirt. Well, his picture's distributed widely, too.

I mean, it's on posters and everything like that. So the boy's grandmother, Mary, traveled to Bluefield, Virginia. Over a couple of months, she went a couple of times in search of him because she, quote, she felt a relative of the family may have him in that area. So there was somebody in particular that she thought might have taken him and brought him here and that's involved in their family. grandmother said that she showed his photograph to a gas station attendant who told her that he was pretty sure he had seen the boy in the area in the last couple months so at this point grandma still says she has hope alive that she's going to be found because she thinks he was taken by a relative and is being hidden away somewhere i don't know if this has something to do with the

parents getting a divorce or any of that shit so So finally they get, by the way, George to take multiple polygraphs over the time. Because they were like, oh, there's some new stuff and we need to ask you about. So we'll just do it via polygraph. It's a lot easier. Always inconclusive, though. This guy knows how to muddy the waters, I feel like. Or they don't know how to do a polygraph test or they're bad at it yeah that's the other thing who knows who they have administering this because they

always say a polygraph i didn't know you had to turn it on plus a polygraph is all about the questions you ask how you ask them it's as much about the questioner as the person attached to it you know so there's a lot that can really fuck up if you don't know what you're doing so this goes by they just they can't do anything so may of 1979 he's been gone since it's now 1982 oh my god michael george he's moved on i mean they've pretty much stopped talking to him by now it's 82 he graduated from a computer technical school great with a 98 point percent grade point average here 98 that's an 82 and he gets a job as a computer operator in oklahoma city okay so he leaves the area has a job yeah all good there august of 1982 though after all this he's living in oklahoma city you know living his best computer fix in

life that he can do the cops receive an anonymous tip that michael george was involved in larry perry's disappearance so that he is they put out a basically a to everybody that he knows they're like where is where is michael where is michael So he hears the cops want to talk to him, so he goes and talks to the cops. Oh. Yeah. So they talk to him and they go, listen, we got an anonymous tip. And we still to this day don't know who the anonymous tip came from, but it had some very accurate information in it. Oh.

So that means somebody has been sitting on this information for three years. Yeah. And that's for three years. Yeah. And that's the disturbing part. Yeah. It has to be some, there's some time that has passed. Cause he could have told somebody something a year ago or whatever, but somebody held this in for some amount of time.

Sure. So they finally sit him down and they go, look, we know you were with them. We know what happened. Someone told us what went on. So he said, all right, with him we know what happened someone told us what went on so he said all right i'll tell you what happened michael george said he goes i'll tell you the truth he said that i was driving out there by the power lines to go target shooting

and larry was following after me you know a little neighborhood kid and he said i'd seen him around a couple of times and you know nice kid or whatever he said so i was target shooting and i had shot some targets and i placed my gun it's a nine millimeter here or no this one's not he said i placed my gun on the hood of my bronco to get out some more targets from the back sure so he placed the gun on the hood he said he went around the back and popped the you know the trunk thing open there, the tailgate. And he said that he was back there. As he's back there, he heard a gunshot. Oh.

He said he went around and Larry had shot himself in the chest with his 9mm. Oh. He said, I don't know how he did it, but he must have got up there, got my gun, and he shot himself with it. So he's like, terrible story. Either the nine-year-old just couldn't take life's onerous tasks anymore, or he was fucking around with it. And when you're playing around with a gun, you go, let me point it at my chest and see what happens. I don't think that's what he did. You don't grab a stranger's weapon off their fucking hood either. I mean you're nine you might you're nine you might go oh a gun if you

who knows you know what i mean if you're dying you might have a weird thought to go oh a gun i'm gonna just look at it and pose with it or something i can see you like blowing half your head off or something if you were like trying to look cool or yeah blew your dick off from putting it down your pants or something but shot in the chest is a hard one to do that's hard so it's a nine millimeter automatic he said this is what happened and um yeah they said they questioned him a couple of times over a couple day period he stays with the police and he said that i swear though the boy fired the gun himself he said my back was turned i was in the back i don't know anything and they said so a young boy shoots himself he's wounded mortally on the ground and you just in front of you what did you do with him because we looked in that area we didn't see a boy with a gunshot

wound in his chest laying there we've never found him where the fuck did you what happened what happened then where is he now did coyotes take him away what's going on so he said well here's what happened again um i thought i was scared i'd get arrested for murder see is the problem i was you know i thought that no one will believe me that he shot himself even though he shot himself so he said i left the area scared i just got my car and took off he goes but then i came back later on that night he said and i took the body and dragged it deeper into the woods and i put it in a ravine and covered it with leaves and branches that's where he is that's where he is yep he said that's that so they give him

polygraphs again inconclusive again on this story. We don't know. Let's just stop giving him polygraphs. It's not going to work. Whatever you're asking isn't the right one. It's not the right questions. So obviously this is a serious issue. Do they believe him?

And now we've got some sort of a confession. Yeah, now we've got a lot of things we've got to chase down. We've got to find the boy first, you know what I mean? So that's what he says, though. I mean, it's a terrible story. It really is. Obviously a very bad story. They're looking around where he said that Michael would be, or where Larry would be, and he's not there as well.

Then finally, um, they said, this is one of the investigators. George has led us to the spot. He says he put the body on two separate occasions. The woods there are very dense. Animals could have carried any remains far from the site,

especially cause he's at 68 pounds. He's not a very big person. So the animals could have very easily taken him away. Uh, September 19th, 1982 bones are found. pounds he's not a very big person so the animals could have very easily taken him away uh september 19th 1982 bones are found oh god now listen to this this is crazy they said bones are discovered about a hundred yards from the place where he said he buried larry which seems pretty good here the new discovery they said hasn't eliminated him as a suspect because they're like, well, now he's telling the truth. Does that mean he gets to go free? No, he threw a nine-year-old

in a ravine. Absolutely not. So the medical examiner said he expects to complete the examination within a week. They said that obviously these bones being found right there are a pretty good sign. They said the bones were discovered during a search of the wooded area and which was where they was directed by him as well. They also said at this point, quote, there's been no arrests. They still haven't arrested him yet. We're looking at the case to see what, if anything, we can charge George with right now. We will continue to try to investigate his story, although no remains of the boy have been found. his story although no remains of the boy have been found um mary perry said that the report of bones being found right by the site said she left her family in shock and disbelief and they have mixed

emotions because they were hoping he was alive in virginia not you know decomposed in their woods they said to a certain degree we believe it and to a certain degree, we believe it, and to a certain degree, we don't, which is interesting. Ridiculous, yeah. Now, they never confirm whether these are his bones or not. That's the other thing. No, to this day, he is listed on missing cold case, never found files. Really? All over the place.

I'll get to the ones at the end. But, yeah, to this day, they're saying they never found him. But I don't know if those bones were another person's bones out there or if they were just somehow never able to match them up. I don't know. DNA-wise, I'm not sure. It's got to be DNA at this point, right? I would assume so. There would have to be.

So I don't know what's going on with that. But I never got a clarification on whether they were his bones or not. It seems unlikely that there would be another set of bones right by where he said, I put this kid. going on with that but i never got a clarification on whether they were his bones or not it seems unlikely that there would be another set of bones right by where he said i put this kid right and it had not been a particular kid right and that particular kid and it not be him especially because they could tell by the bones if it was a child or not they could certainly tell if they were four eight sixty eight pounds or a six foot two two hundred pound man that would be pretty fucking clear right from just from the skull you know so you don't need science for that don't need a lot of science just yeah naked eye

for that the county attorney says this this is uh paul ebert and he'll have lots of experience with michael george here he says quote in retrospect the police did a good job no they did a terrible job this was fucking botch after botch after botch this was terrible how do you how do you say that with a straight face because he has to work with them all the time yeah he's got a pension and shit yeah yeah he's got it plus he just has to work with these homicide detectives and all that kind of thing this is one of those cases with lots of leads absolutely not there were zero leads from day one they had he was seen with him that's where they saw him running he was seen with him last and that's where the trail ended there's no other fucking leads but that other than they had to check is he with his

mom is he with his dad is he with his aunt no well no more leads and years of looking for him yeah that's ridiculous two years after the boy's disappearance, we were still getting reports that he was in different parts of the country, which happens with all missing kids. Of course, yeah. They say that all the time. Oh, my God. They found Madeline McCann in different countries for the last fucking 10 years. The kid, oh, God, the first milk carton kid, the one from New York City, that kid that they finally solved it like in the last five years. They found some maintenance guy that did it or whatever. But that kid, that they finally solved it in the last five years. They found some maintenance guy that did it

or whatever. But that kid, it was the same thing. They were saying he was being spotted all over the world. It was ridiculous. Because just people had his face in their mind and that's how it went. So he said, after George was developed as a suspect, they worked the case.

So they did a great job even though they didn't um they were still getting reports i mean they were silly reports that we get with every missing person but i mean shit we had to that had to waste our time and then after he was developed three years after the murder which if okay let's say he killed a nine-year-old and buried him in the woods what's that guy capable of you think he's gonna never do that again and just you know larry did something terrible to him they had beef maybe and fucking settled it or what like terrible things are on the horizon in the last three years what could he have been doing here so he's finally indicted by a grand jury on charges of murder

abduction and failure to provide medical care to a minor. Without a body. Without a body. Now, here's the problem, though. Paul Ebert, the prosecutor who we talked about, he said that he believed he'd be unable to secure a conviction because no Prince William murder case had ever been successfully tried and got a guilty verdict with no body. No body, no crime. People say it all the time on this show with no body, no body, no crime.

People say it all the time on this show for a reason. Oh, buddy, no crime. They play that at the reggae festival, by the way, the reggae wine festival plays. No body,

no crime a lot. Fuck. So would you say how many, what? How, how say right before you said a number, uh a second ago i missed the number oh what number was that i don't even know you said so many somethings and then before god damn it i was so hung up on them not having the body uh now i've lost my train of thought that's well he's

got all these it's never happened before never been tried successfully without a body so not one not once so they're going to allow him to plead guilty here which honestly they don't really have a lot other than improper disposal of something yeah but why would you come why would you why would you plea at all that's what i mean because they what there's a kid involved so they know that the jury a jury might have a little they know that it's not good for either of them there's a lot of risk for everybody involved if the jury just wants to get this guy because they think he did something to a kid evidence be damned they will and the prosecutor

knows he could get off scot-free if he tries to go for too much so he is allowed to plead guilty to abduction and involuntary manslaughter, which is wild. And the Ebert here, the prosecutor said we had no body, no witnesses, and only his statement that a crime had occurred. His attorney started feeling like a jury was not likely to let them walk, but we didn't

really have enough evidence to get him convicted of murder. Manslaughter was the best we could do to get him off the streets. I don't even know that they've got enough evidence for that. They don't, and he knows it, so they're happy that he'll plead, because the prosecutors are like, this could be bad. I mean, he could get off scot-ott free and then what if we get yeah yeah then we get more evidence and then what he's you know or or we get him we try him he's not convicted he's deemed not guilty and then he goes off and does something worse exactly so at least get him

off the streets so wow he pleads guilty it's an agreement reached reached in February of, what is it, 1984. Wow. And the judge sentences him to, wow, you, sir, may fuck off five years on the manslaughter charge. Holy shit. Five years. And a 10-year suspended sentence for the abduction charge. Suspended. So he gets five total. He's five years five fucking years for killing a nine-year-old so at least though yeah callously

tossing a nine-year-old in a ravine let's say that they find everything deem it him they they can't try him for murder now right i don't know they already got him for involuntary manslaughter i think you only get one crack at that so unbelievable that is incredible so the other one is suspended so the prosecutor is quick to say to the press well if he screws up at all once he gets out then he'll go back to prison because he's got a suspended sentence that's all you can say that's if he kills anybody else then you know don't worry we'll get right back in there he said that he the the kid accidentally shot himself as we said in court while playing with his gun so he must have been playing with it playing cowboy or some shit and accidentally shot himself he thinks maybe he said he was twirling it around his finger doing one of

those maybe trying to be like a cowboy so george said he panicked and just dragged the body in the woods and didn't tell anybody about it for three years so couldn't find him and that's how that's how it was so five that is five years unbelievable and they said they had no body no witnesses their sole piece of evidence is the confession fuck what they're gonna do that's all the best they could do so he comes up for parole by the way immediately after the first year because back then it was like after 20 you could start getting parole hearings so he gets a parole hearing he's denied parole twice okay and then february 10th 1986 after doing two and a half years uh the yep they said despite attempts from state prison officials to keep him incarcerated

as long as they could he was released after serving two and a half years due to good behavior and time served awaiting trial they couldn't keep him anymore and that was now a man he had 20s that's killed a person he had time served in good time so they had to let him out after two and a half years and the chief probation and parole officer said they, quote, kept him as long as they could. That's what they said. We didn't want to let him go, but had to let him go. So he stays in Virginia. And this is crazy.

He gets a job working as a computer operator. I don't know how this is possible. At the Quantico Marine Base. A man convicted of manslaughter. How the fuck does the federal government hire this man? A branch of the fucking armed forces hire this guy. Are there so few computer programmers that they need one that bad? I don't care how many computer programmers there are we don't hire

the guy who killed a nine-year-old let's not have him maybe he's not the guy you know or you maybe he is but he can do it from prison i don't know we'll figure out a program or some shit but we can't have this guy working here the people that hire people at quantico believed his story that he's he had to tell them, yeah, that kid was playing with a gun. He shot himself. I didn't time for it. It was an accident.

They didn't ask him about it. I don't know. We know hooking him up to a lie detector won't help. It won't matter anyway. Yeah. It's pretty fucking wild. And during this time, people say of him that he's known as just a loner. He doesn't date.

Has very few friends goes about his business works on computers we're getting a picture right now aren't we we're all seeing this person it's a bad person it's a especially back then yeah a computer weirdo in the 80s was like whoa you are like this is well outside the bounds of normal society, what you're doing right now, just holing up in a room. Now it's normal, but then. So after all this, he gets out of prison. He tells everybody that he's become very religious. Oh.

He's become religious now. Real Jesus guy. No need to worry anymore. He's good. Good now. He's got this. He said he reads the Bible often, most of the the time every day usually at least for 15 to 20 minutes a day jesus so yeah i'm good he reads that a lot yeah jesus he's like yeah jesus i read that

guy's name all the time i hate this in my life yep so he worked there he's making 20 grand a year which isn't bad at the time mid 80s for money he's all right. He is described by his people at work as very meticulous and intelligent. Okay. Now, this is fucked up. Okay. Stafford County. Go over to there. He and authorities at this point here in the late 80s into 1990 are investigating a bunch of weird crimes. A series of abductions of teenage boys okay none of

whom were killed but all of whom were abducted and all claimed to be abducted by a quote Rambo like character yeah all these all these boys from different areas are all describing the same individual kidnapping them and the same things are done to these boys as well areas are all describing the same individual kidnapping them, and the same things are done to these boys as well, and we'll get into that. With a red bandana and a bandolier bullet to cross his chest. Camouflage shirt, black gloves, dressed like Rambo. Back then, if you're camouflaged and you have a headband on, you're Rambo. That's it.

Very easy costume. Very easy. So they said he was dressed in full camouflage gear this guy they all said a Rambo like person he's dressed like Rambo that's what all the kids said camouflage kidnapped these kids drug them into the woods where he would handcuff them around trees and torture them sexually with stun guns oh my and molest them and do bad things to them while torturing them with stun guns as well that's what that's that's what this rambo person is i don't make you hate sylvester stallone forever oh yeah you're never gonna go see rocky five later on after that you're done with him you're done with Sly after that shit. So you just hear Adrian and you want no part of it anymore.

So June 16th, 1990, there is a young man named Alexander Eugene Stanko. Fuck, I hate to screw up somebody's name. But obviously we screw up names a lot. But it's S-Z-T-A-N-K-O. Stanko? Stanko? Stanko? Might be Chanko. Stanko.

Yeah, I'm not sure. But Alexander here, he's 15 years old on June 16th, 1990. He's a student at Potomac High School. Just got done doing the ninth grade. School just ended. It's June 16th. He's real into riding dirt bikes. Hell yeah. Loves that. Likes to

bowl. Sings in the choir. Plays soccer. Likes to shoot pool. The family got a pool table as like a family Christmas gift this year. He's been obsessed with playing pool, which is totally fucking awesome. He lives in the city of Manassas, where they just moved.

That's where they just went they just moved there uh but they come back as they did live in woodbridge oh so they come back to woodbridge on saturday june 16th alex and his parents come over back to their old house to move out all the things they left behind they still had some you know odds and ends left behind in the house. So, they arrive here at the address in Woodbridge. Alex decides to he's going to go ride his dirt bike. They've taken the last spin through the old neighborhood.

Awesome. And this neighborhood has power lines that cross his parents' property and extend into a wooded area traversed by a bunch of trails and shit like that. It connects with the area in Dumfries.

It's all together there. See what I'm saying? How that works? It's on the other side, yep. So Gail, Alexander's mother, said he was very excited, Alexander, to enter the 10th grade, and he's usually not allowed to ride alone, but on this particular day's usually not allowed to ride alone, but on this particular day,

she allowed him to ride because some of his friends had taken off and he wanted to go catch up to his friends. So she said, okay, fine, go catch up to your friends. So Mr. and Mrs. Sanko, I hope, last saw Alex at about 2 p.m. when he rode into the woods, which is normal. Teenage boy on a dirt bike riding into the woods.

I've seen that. Normal day. Yep. Seen that a million times growing up. Very normal. Alex's father said, quote, maybe a half hour or an hour later, he heard two gunshots coming from the wooded area, which, again, is not uncommon as well. People target, shoot, people hunt, people do all sorts of shit.

So, again, not uncommon, not really drawing any attention, just said, oh, I heard a couple of gunshots. So he is doing that, driving his dirt bike. He doesn't come back though. Alexander never comes back at all. By that evening, his parents are very worried obviously. They're calling police. by that evening. His parents are very worried, obviously. They're calling police. Next day

at 10.45 a.m., the police are aware that he's missing, and they are looking for him, basically. They've been told he's disappeared by the woods, so there's cops kind of driving the perimeter of the woods, seeing if anybody's coming in and out of the trails,

asking them, have you seen this person? All that kind of shit, listening for dirt bikes that because on a dirt bike in the wood he could have fallen and hurting himself and be stuck in the woods with a fucking broken leg right now that's highly possible that's the price you pay when you go out by yourself on a dirt bike exactly when you ride alone you could be stuck out there somewhere so they don't know if he's hurt if he's in danger if there's foul play he's a teenager too he's hurt, if he's in danger, if there's foul play. He's a teenager, too. He could be anywhere, for Christ's sake. A teenager could run away, you know, especially if he moved to a new neighborhood.

Now he's hanging out with his old friends. He could say, I'm not going, man. I'm staying with you guys. Kid's got a dirt bike. He can do whatever he wants at this point. Yeah. That's what the kid in Terminator did. He had a dirt bike, and he ran everywhere with that thing.

You can fight a robot. You can drink Mad Dog 2020. You can smoke cigarettes. You can finger a chick. You can do anything when you got a dirt bike. That's the thing. All kinds of shit. When you're 15 with a dirt bike, man, sky's the limit.

You can be the best hitter in Little League and you're on the Bad News Bears. You can do anything. So that day, this is Corporal Joseph Dillon. He's out looking around for Alex. He observes a silver and blue Ford Bronco, remember that one, parked off to the side of Cardinal Drive, which is the street that Alex came from here, near the woods into which Alex had ridden. So, hey, let's talk to him. near the woods into which Alex had ridden. So, hey, let's talk to him.

So this Dylan, this Corporal Dylan, he sees the vehicle parked in the same location he saw it the day before, and now he sees it again, 3.30 p.m. the next day. So Dylan pulls in behind the vehicle and runs the tag. So check the registration, see who does it. He learns that the Bronco is registered to a man by the name of Michael Carl George. Yep. Okay. Now, he then observes what he calls in his report a, quote, camouflage-cl glad subject starts toward corporal dylan then turns and runs eastwardly along the shoulder a shoulder of cardinal drive and quickly dips into

the woods not suspicious at all totally not suspicious that who doesn't do that dressed in all camouflage totally normal normal, right? Then he said he went about 10 feet into the woods because he can see him still in the woods right there. It's not thick woods. You can see him. It's just the beginning of the woods. So Corporal Dillon says he runs about quickly deeper into the woods and turned and started walking, then turned and started walking back to Dylan's direction. Knelt down, then popped up, walked deeper into the woods,

then turned around and started walking toward the cop again. Okay. So what does that tell you? He did some shit. Ditching something, probably. Yeah. If it was like live PD, you go, where's your meth? Where'd you put it? So what does that tell you? He did some shit. Ditching something, probably. Yeah. If it was like live PD, you go, where's your meth?

Where'd you put it? Did you throw your meth away? Where'd you put the drugs? Where'd you put your meth in the swamp in Florida? Come on, tell us where it is. So that doesn't seem suspicious at all. Turned and walked toward him. He said this person was crouched as he was moving through the woods oh which is a again a strange way to move especially in camouflage he said it made it

made it appear to corporal dylan that he didn't want to be seen he's like i could see him the whole time but i don't think he knew i could see him and he acted like he was being real stealthy about that shit like sneaking back toward you me like i'm gonna see what he's up to in cat i'm no i'm invisible that's what it is i'm like the predator i'm invisible yep that's what a camouflage shirt i bought at walmart for 399 is an invisibility cloak where the police can never find me nobody can see me yeah he didn't want to be seen so he ends up obviously dylan gets out and he goes hey stupid get over here the fuck are you doing i can still see you i can smell you you're

15 feet away that shit only works over here come here yeah get the fuck over here so he said when he talks to this man he described the camouflage subject as, quote, shaking very badly and sweating profusely. Again, not suspicious at all. This is like this man couldn't be more suspicious. He identifies himself as Michael George. And he goes, well, what you doing here, Michael George? And he goes, I'm looking for a place to go turkey hunting. A question.

Yeah. Right. And they were like, really to the camouflaged out running away from cops that's how you turkey hunt weird with no weapons either that's an interesting way to turkey hunt he said to the cop quote i'm not trespassing am i well like he's gonna act like you're just i'm worried about getting trespassed i don't want that to. What's the most minimal thing I could be in trouble for right now? But still admit wrongdoing. Yeah, exactly.

That's that's what I'll find. I'm sure this cop's completely a complete moron. I'm sure he doesn't know anything. So he says, I'm not trespassing. And they are the two of them are at that moment in time standing directly under a no trespassing sign like three feet from their faces right there so the cop turns to it and says well according to this obviously you are yeah stupid you walk right by it you're standing next to it so then corporal dylan asks george whether he had been in the area the day before and corporal dylan said that george forcefully replied in the negative oh

absolutely not i did not ever be here yesterday never never i've never been in this place ever it's a nice place actually a nice area it's a good place for turkey hunting hopefully so you see any turkey around here so then uh when dylan said that, I saw your vehicle here the day before, I saw the same tag on it as I saw it today. Then George said, oh, yeah, yeah, I was here yesterday. Yeah. You meant that yesterday. Oh. You meant yesterday, yesterday.

Yesterday seems so far away. You know what I mean? My troubles always seem so far away. But I believe in yesterday, and I'm going to make it work. So, yeah, he does this. He says, oh, man. So the cop at that point calls for assistance. He goes, I got a real jackass here.

Somebody. This doesn't feel right. Somebody called. He goes, I'm going to go ahead and put you in cuffs for trespassing just to get that out of the way here. This is a start, and then we'll look into it after that. So another cop comes, transport george from the scene then dylan walks into the woods because he wants to see where this guy had been kneeling down and what he's doing here sees him goes to the spot where george had knelt down there corporal dylan finds a black pair of tennis shoes now camouflage Man was wearing shoes.

Right. So it's not like he came out barefoot and here's his shoes. He's got another pair. He's a black pair of tennis shoes. So he leaves the tennis shoes undisturbed, Corporal Dillon. There we go. He says, let's not fuck with this here. Let's do this correctly.

Didn't just pick them up. Anybody lose shoes? Anybody? Who's got cold feet? Who's got anybody walking barefoot up and down the road? So now they bring a bloodhound in because now they know they exist from 10 years ago. Remember those dogs? There's his dog.

Big droopy dog with ears. He'll just sniff out a boy. No problem. He'll find any boy. Dead or alive. Boyfinder, we call them. Boyfinding dogs. So he's brought in to and taken to

the shoes from that point the dog led the police from the shoes to michael george's bronco oh then quote right up through the woods where they find alex's body there oh his shoeless body by the way oh yes his shoeless and there is a differing reports on whether he was fully clothed or not or some reports have him shirtless and shoeless some say fully clothed just shoeless so not sure but definitely his shoes and definitely his body and yeah the dog so those dogs work pretty good don't they very very well yeah they're not bad yeah they went by the way it doesn't look good for michael george to have the dog go to his truck then to his body straight to his truck just connected everybody together there so yeah the cops are very, very interested in him. They find also at this point that, wow, they find on his pants, they find, or on his body, on young Alex's body, they find seminal fluid on his body. And also blood on Michael George's pants as well.

Also blood on Michael George's pants as well. The blood on the pants is consistent with Alex Stanko's blood, but not Michael George's blood. So it can only belong to him. And fibers on Alex's T-shirt were consistent with fibers on Michael George's jacket as well. Okay. And it gets worse for him even more. We'll talk about what happened to Michael here. Or what happened to poor Alex here.

He's been shot in the head as his cause of death. Shot in the head at close range, but it's way worse than that. It's way worse than that. At the time of George's arrest, he is carrying a sheath knife like Rambo. Big Rambo knife. Various keys, including a handcuff key. A topographical map bearing a hand-drawn X corresponding exactly to the spot where Alex's body is found. Uh-oh.

That's not good. Nope. And a hand-drawn O, which we'll talk about later what that ended up being. There's a hand-drawn O that corresponds perfectly to something else. Okay. Now, a search of his Bronco, which was at the scene, reveals a machete, a tear gas canister, and an electrical stun gun that's 50,000 volts. That's a lot. That's a big one.

That's a big one. Yes. So, they find Alex's body. Like I said, the shit they at first they wouldn't comment on any of the cause of death or anything like that. But they said they were going to do the autopsy and figured it out. very close, like extremely close to where young Larry Perry was killed 10 years earlier. Yeah, or more than 10 years ago. Same woods, though. It's within like a mile. Same area. Oh, boy.

Same area. Very, very close. Very, very close. So when also in his car was survival gear, hacksaws, maps, ropes, lights, shit like that. Like he was going to be Rambo. He thinks he's fucking Rambo. He does. So after questioning, they're going to go ahead and charge Michael George with murder here because he admits a lot of what happened here.

Because we've got a body. Yeah. His motorcycle, by the way, or his helmet, they said, was never found at the time. Neither were found at the time, the motorcycle nor the helmet that the kid rode into the woods on. But we'll find out what happened to those because it's very interesting. Now, what happened to poor Alex here? This part is where you want to probably go ahead and fast forward a couple minutes if you're sensitive to some things because this is a real rough one. Alex had suffered a single gunshot wound to the head from a nine millimeter automatic cause they said that would have caused immediate loss of consciousness and very quick death from

this gunshot so that's good but before that he was tortured quite a bit um There are abrasions of his penis which are consistent with being repeatedly burned with the stun gun. In the dick? He was shocking this kid's genitalia with a 50,000 volt stun gun over and over again. Wow. Over and over to the point of burning him severely. and over to the point of burning him severely um he was still alive when his penis injuries were inflicted and obviously would have been terribly painful this is while the reason why he couldn't do anything to fight it off alex is because he was handcuffed to a tree while this is going on handcuffed to a tree he also sexually assaults him. There's rape involved

from what we understand. He tortured him. He cut him with a machete on various parts of his body. Just sliced him up here and there. Beat him unmercifully and then repeatedly shocked his genitalia

with a stun gun. And sexually assaulted him and then shoots him in the head and then this took a while audacity to ask am i trespassing am i my trespass wow yeah this motherfucker is evil yeah evil and guess what this has this has grown this has progressed he now think about it rambo stun guns teenagers he's now killing them rather than letting them go because letting them go, there was a lot of reports of him. So this is terrible. This is bad. began to cry for help which made him pull out his beretta that he was carrying with him and shoot him once in the head killing him that's why god forbid you while you torture him for this took a long time man this took a long time and there was uh one gunshot that killed him one gun single gunshot to the head somebody said they heard two gunshots perhaps one was to try to

calm him down or shut him up possibly that's possible who knows yeah yeah that's that's a fact as well too or to stop him on the dirt bike maybe to stop him on the dirt bike well from what i understand that that's a a different thing here the dirt bike is out but and because the gunshots were together too they were close so who knows yeah he might have fired one up in the air, said shut the fuck up. And the kid didn't shut up. And then he shot him. I'm not sure.

Wow. So after collecting all of his stuff here because he brought all this shit with him to do this in the woods, George left the crime scene and just left Alex handcuffed to the tree. Or left him tied to the tree. He secured his wrist with the handcuffs and all that i think he tied him later on this is fucking gross uh yeah semen found on the boy's t-shirt and on george's clothing indicates obviously that he it belongs to michael george here so the motorcycle police couldn't find the motorcycle or the helmet now on the evening that alex disappeared coincidentally in a nearby place a group of young people were drinking beer and swimming

all right which is what you're supposed to be doing in the power lines not fucking molesting kids so they spotted a motorcycle and a helmet as they were leaving the woods in a jeep just these are yeah just sitting there in a heavily wooded area they said they were located quote up in the woods off the main path hidden from common observation one of the member of the group took the helmet put it in the jeep and another one got on the motorcycle and started it up and took off with it somebody just left these things in the woods yeah but so we can just take it now that guy's real close by and probably gonna be mad when he comes and finds out that we're fucking maybe these are teenage woods drinking woods

beer drinking swimming fucking scumbags they don't care yeah yeah they don't give a shit they take the motorcycle woo so they kept the motorcycle and helmet until monday morning when they learned from news reports that the motorcycle and helmet were involved in a young boy's in a 15 year old's murder and are being sought vigorously by the police. Oh, dear God. And they've probably fucked up evidence now that they put their hands all over and shit. Probably bent a handlebar or something's wrong with that bike. No shit. So thankfully, though, these kids do.

They're not total. I mean, stealing a motorcycle and drinking beer in the woods is way different than I don't care if some kid gets killed. But now they get their hands all over this shit. Yep. But three members of the group go to the police station and report everything that happened. They tell them we have the motorcycle if you want it. Our bad. Okay.

Thought it was a good finders keepers moment guess not so they take possession of the motorcycle and helmet which are identified as being you know belonging to alex stanko upon examining the spot where the group took them to saying they found the motorcycle they said that um they looked and saw the uh uh an indent indentation that lines up with a kickstand being put on a bike for a while. They said it impacted the ground. Also, that spot lines up perfectly with where the O is drawn on Michael George's map. Where the dirt bike was. That's where the dirt bike was.

Holy shit. Body X, dirt bike O. Exactly where it was. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. He couldn't be bike O. Exactly where it was. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. He couldn't be more fucked and guilty if he tried. So tests show that blood found on George's pants were consistent with Alex's blood but not his own. Fibers on the shirt matching on from George's jacket.

Lab examinations of substances taken from seminal substances from Alex's Alex's clothing and body showed the presence of seminal fluid on his T-shirt and thigh. Although the origin of the fluid could not be determined. A similar examination of pubic area swabs and stains from George's underpants. What? Yeah, because he was just putting his dick away. He's still dripping or whatever. Showed the presence of seminal fluid consistent with Mr. George and different from Alex. That is the thing about that. George's camouflage pants were stained with blood inconsistent with his blood but consistent with Alex's blood.

This is all looking very bad. Very, very bad um very very bad so no trace of the wallet that alex was carrying with two twenty dollar bills that his parents knew that he had because they gave to him right he put the bills in his wallet and he took off so that was never found his wallet and two twenty dollar bills are never found and that is a huge part of this case, by the way. So they end up finding the motorcycle and everything. Michael George, when they're interrogating, all he'll say, he cruised the power lines all the time in his Ford Bronco. And he said he frequently dressed in camouflage clothing. Perry, this is Larry Perry.

Yeah. Remember him? Yeah. She said, they said that, oh, no, this is somebody. Yeah. Oh, yeah. From before they had said they were Mary Perry. Yeah. Remember him? Yeah. She said they said that. Oh, no, this is somebody. Yeah. Oh, yeah. From before they had said they were Mary Perry. They were always kind of suspicious of him because they thought George, quote, was funny with because of the amount of time he spent with children. They said, I never saw him with any adults, but he was always with children a lot. And she said, why didn't anybody look into that after that why'd they let him and her husband had a very uneasy feeling being in his car that's the other thing

here no this was an aunt this was perry's aunt that said this type of thing but they all felt that way she said said that her whole family was concerned with this now george michael george tells the cops that he had he just says that he had oral sex with Alex, and then because Alex was screaming and yelling so much, he had to shoot him. Oh, my God. Yeah. I wonder why, while you were torturing him physically and molesting him, I wonder why he fucking was screaming for that.

Gee, who can imagine? June 20, 1990, they search his parents' home where he lives. This is his dad's house. They search for Michael George. They find a stun gun that they believe is the one used to torture not only him but many other teenagers that they seize here. They have that. They seize that from the vehicle. But according to this, they also find, let's see, they find the suspect's home, find a loaded pistol that they match up as the murder weapon to. Oh, shit.

Still had it in the house with them. So, ballistically, they match that up. Also, they seize photographs of young boys. We'll talk about that. Boxes of ammunition, safes containing undisclosed papers. And we'll talk about that. Boxes of ammunition, safes containing undisclosed papers, and we'll talk about some of them. They are disclosed.

$155 in cash and two gun clips. Okay. Right? Also a pair of handcuffs, and the key taken from George at the time of his arrest fit the handcuffs, which handcuff keys kind of are sort of ubiquitous.

Yeah. Also found in George's room was, like I said, rest fit the handcuffs, which handcuff keys kind of are sort of ubiquitous. Also found in George's room was, like I said, the 9mm that matches up and everything like that. They also found weapons in his footlocker. They found a computerized list of books, including manuals on guerrilla warfare, sniping, survival techniques, combat training, and weapons. He really wants to be Rambo. He's never been in the military of any kind. He's a computer nerd who diddles kids.

He's not a fucking, not a soldier. So photographs of more than 60 fully clothed boys were seized from George's home after he was arrested. They said that this is the fucked up part. Now you're going to say, oh, so what? He's cutting shit out of catalogs. Anybody could do that. No, no, no.

Most of these pictures were candid photographs that had obviously been taken without the knowledge of the children or their parents. He's spying. He's just going out and taking pictures of strange, hunting children. Yeah. Making a catalog for himself like a fucking menu interviews with some of the boys they found in the pictures

revealed that that most did not know who George was never met him before some of the photos appeared to be taken under the coverage of foliage so like he was hiding in the bushes dude this guy is a stereotypical like novelty pervert.

Oh, my God. What kind of a pervert literally hides in a bush with a camera taking pictures of little boys? This is like a comedy sketch. It's so ridiculous. It's fucking insane. Wow. So, yikes. Now, one woman here, a Penny Marie Presti, told the police that she had seen George try to take her nine-year-old son's photograph the previous fall when the child played in the backyard of their home near Quantico where George worked. When she walked outside, George quickly left, she said.

He was coming up trying to look. He's caught, yeah. He got caught. He said, oh, I'm not taking pictures of your kid. Don't worry about it. He's taking pictures of this tree it's gorgeous look at it from the inside though it's prettier you know what i mean this is pretty bush from the inside wow so he's indicted obviously for this and the the county attorney still paul ebert by the way is that right still the same guy oh we know him too from way too familiarly. Yeah, he's like, I don't know.

Did my best. Yeah. He said, I'm pleased we have a capital murder indictment now. Are you pleased? Now? Now, as opposed to before. He said, this office intends to press for the death penalty, which he's got to right his wrongs here because he let this happen. You've got to be thinking, fuck, maybe I could have put him away

forever. He's also charged with robbery and abduction with intent to defile. That sounds gross. Use of a firearm in the commission of a felony and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, mind you, as well.

They said that they're going to say that he was robbed before.'s why they're gonna go for the death penalty because he robbed the kid too right before he walks now he also says this is another thing george says yes i killed the kid yes the larry he still says larry perry was an accident that was an accident yeah i killed this kid though and i've killed a third person too by the way oh yeah and they the police and the prosecutors didn't disclose the name of the person he said he killed there and they said they're not contemplating a second murder charge against him at the moment because they don't know what's up with that you know his i killed a third person

bullshit they said they plan to introduce evidence, though, that George has admitted killing three people. We'll throw that in there. The lettuce. They said, we don't even know if that person exists. So we're not sure. We'll get into the details of that in a second, too. So they said that they're going to go to trial here, obviously, and for a a capital murder charge which isn't really good for him clearly i feel like he's not good at quantico the marine base cannot keep him on after this

so they filed this the documents say the prosecution plans to introduce evidence to show that george attempted to solicit a young man to allow the defendant to perform oral sodomy upon the young man. Yeah. They also depict George as a man with a history of cruelty to animals who maintained pictures of young boys in his room, photographed a young boy he did not know while he was playing, and wrote a story of a boy being pursued in the woods by someone or something. He writes stories of, like, terrified boys, and he's the monster. This guy's a fucking menace.

Yeah. And also they're investigating the rash of, quote, Rambo robberies and tortures that he was doing to stun-gunning kids and molesting them and handcuffing them to trees. Because they figure that can't be a coincidence. So they say they're definitely going for the death penalty here. Ebert says, quote, if he hadn't.

This is the prosecutor in case you're not on board with him being the prosecutor yet. Oh, Ebert here. He says if he hadn't been apprehended by good police work and good luck, he was well on his way to becoming a serial killer. If he isn't one already, he has done two murders and apparently has talked about others. Experience shows that the more these people kill, the easier it becomes. These are not the only two people he's killed. Sorry.

That's impossible. It's fucking impossible. And he starts to talk about that in jail, but not quite after, not until he tries to kill himself in there. Oh. Tries to slit his wrists in jail and slit his throat too june 26 1990 yes um the superintendent of county adult detention said that he slashed his throat on early on a sunday evening with a brazer blade broken from a plastic disposable razor same way

rhode island guy tried it he said then they had the exact same quote too quote there's no way the staff could have anticipated or stopped george from taking the action he did the disposable razors have been routinely issued to inmates as part of their personal grooming package it's almost like people might kill themselves with a razor it's weird and we can't ever predict that you gave them a fucking knife in prison. That is crazy. So then he's also charged with felony possession of a knife or tool by a prisoner, which carries a maximum term of five years as well. So, yeah, he tried to slit his throat shortly after this.

And he says he's innocent and tried to kill himself because he was upset about media reports that he tortured the boy. That's what he told the public after that. Now, he told fellow inmates some different shit, though. What did he tell them? Many of them. Two different former inmates that we'll talk about in particular said that George told them he had killed a boy that he abducted from a fast food restaurant,

a McDonald's to be particular, in Lake Ridge, and a youth he abducted from a convenience store in Louisa County, Virginia as well. Yes, he said the prosecutor said that the investigation shows that no boys have been reported missing from either area, but this disappearances may not have been noted if they had been runaways. So they could either be from another area. They didn't check anywhere else, just right in that town if they had been runaways. So they could either be from another area. They didn't check anywhere else, just right in that town if they disappeared. So they could be runaways from two counties over, number one.

They could be fucking, they could be just not reported missing because their families are a disaster and when their 15-year-old takes off, they just go, fuck it, so they don't call the police. Who knows? This is fucking insane. It's unbelievable that that's a fucking option, but yeah. their 15 year old takes off they just go fuck it so they don't call the police right who knows this is fucking insane that's unbelievable that's a fucking option but yeah wow um he also michael george told the other inmates that he killed andy sanko as well he said this is what he told roger

lee set uh settle who's his roommate here is is i guess his cellmate not really roommate it's his roommate jimmy they share a nice they share two-bedroom over on the west side. You eat my noodles. They had my name on them. You eat my noodles. We're going to have a fight. Either way, you're fighting, I guess. He said, quote, he said his first impression was to have sex with the boy.

Yes, George told Roger Settle that he had, quote, stopped Alex and got his attention, then grabbed him and dragged him off his bike back into the woods to have sex with him. Oh, boy. Jesus Christ. That's right. That's called kidnapping, rape, all sorts of shit. Intent to defile is a good way to put it. Yeah.

George also told Settle that he sodomized Alex, stunned the boy in his private part several times, then shot him in the head. So he told him all the info that nobody knew outside of the killer and the cops here. So he told him also that, man, he dragged him off the bike. He described that. He said that the bike and the helmet ended up where they were was about 20 to 25 feet from the trail through the woods. So he drug that into there too the ground between the trail and the location of the motorcycle was covered with a lot of thick foliage which bore evidence that a wheeled wheeled vehicle had traversed the area so there it was

five tenths of a mile from where the body was found she didn't take him very far a little over half a mile yeah yeah so george denies responsibility for the crime which is ridiculous and by the way spelt spent shell casings from the pistol recovered from his home conclusively established that was the murder weapon he saved his shell casings that's nice so there's all sorts of obviously evidence here they said that it was discovered that the prosecutors could only seek a death sentence if they could prove George had stolen something from him, though. That's the way the law was at this moment in time. So he's like, shit, he has to have stolen something.

Then they said, hey, what about that 40 bucks in his wallet? What about that? And they went, good enough. Perfect. You mix it with that. So they said, what about the kid? He said he picked up from a McDonald's in Woodbridge and then killed him within the last 10 years since he got out of prison? And they said, we'll deal with that later.

Fuck it. Who cares? Don't worry about it. Then they're looking into cold cases. There's a separate investigation now by authorities in Oklahoma City where he spent a bunch of years that they're saying that maybe he could have done anything there, too. These kids come from everywhere because the highway runs through there. So one of his defense attorneys, though, said he first heard of the alleged statements that he killed other people just now. He said, quote, the third victim comes as a complete surprise to me.

This is wild. Now, the trial comes up. OK, there's a couple of weird things. First of all, there's a juror named Temple Lee Derry. Everybody's middle name is Lee down here. He said when they asked him anything you have to say, he said, quote, this is while he's being questioned as a juror. I do have one thing to say. My son was a pallbearer for this young man that was killed. Holy shit. Okay, immediately killed okay immediately okay well then bye

yeah have a good one yeah but i didn't really know the young man or the family i don't feel that would affect me in making a decision really later he said initially i guess because my son did go to that funeral i felt that what if the guy did what they said he did? That was terrible. Then I got in here and he said that he pleaded innocent. So I felt at least I owe him the option of listening to what he has to say. You're not supposed to know any of that shit before you sit down in here. You're supposed to go, who's that?

I don't know. What's this about? That's a juror. I don't owe anybody anything except for honesty and some sort of verdict. This is, I've heard all about it and blah, blah, blah. I figured I'd give him a chance to speak his piece. That's not a juror. That's not how juries work.

You can't use that guy. But they use this guy, by the way. That's what's crazy. He said that he had not met the young man who died. So he said he didn't really discuss the case with his son and has formed no opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the accused. He goes, I know the kid was killed, but I don't know he did it. I don't know that. So he said he would consider voting for a sentence less than death as well.

He would consider that. Darry also said that while he had learned something about the case from television, he had no knowledge concerning the details. Finally, he said that despite the fact that his son was a pallbearer, he thought he could still be open-minded. In denying George's motion to exclude this man, which is crazy, the trial judge stated that he thought Derry had been very candid in the responses given, considering the tone of his voice and his speech and the pitch of his voice when he was answering.

He said, we give the deference to a trial court's decision whether to retain or exclude individual jurors because the trial court sees and hears the juror. They let him stay. He'll do. That is very interesting. I don't even know what to say about that. He wants his statement suppressed here. The one he made to Officer Dillon where he admitted being in the woods the previous day there.

He said that should be suppressed because I didn't get Miranda warnings yet. He said that was made during a custodial interrogation. He says that Officer Dillon, or Corporal Dillon, admitted in the hearing on the motion to dismiss that he had decided to make an arrest when the officer first approached George to question him. Okay, so he's saying that the officer knew he was going to arrest him, so he should have Mirandized him then rather than going, what the fuck are you doing here? He said the record does not support George's argument. Officers Dillon stated clearly that he did not decide to make an arrest until after the

completion of the conversation in which George made his admission concerning the previous day and after Dillon had walked back to his car and was running his information about the registration. Only then he said he would have restricted George's liberty at that point. So the trial court finds specifically George was not in custody at the time the statements in question were made and the evidence supports that. So this goes back and forth.

It's a very wavy line of when you need to mirandize and if the cop can prove that he wasn't planning on arresting you at that point then he doesn't really have to at that moment but you're supposed to when they're when you're going to ask a question about something that happened but he didn't really ask about the murder so it's a gray area and it works for for the cops here it's Evidence relating to the stun gun. Okay. Now, George argues that the trial court is going to improperly, it would be improper to admit this evidence, the use of a stun gun on the victim during this trial phase as opposed to the sentencing phase. He goes, if I get convicted, you can put it in the sentencing phase, say I'm a bad guy, but don't tell everybody during the trial about the stun gun.

They're really going to hate me there. He said it's irrelevant and prejudicial. That's what it is. Okay. The court said, no, the gun was found by police in your Bronco. The body bore injuries consistent with electrical burns from a stun gun. Expert testimony will show that the gun produces an arc of electricity that causes burns like this. Hence, the gun connected with George and the murder murder and for this reason you can go fuck yourself

he also wants evidence relating to a robbery suppressed this is very important he argues there is absolutely no evidence that a robbery ever occurred hence he maintains a trial court aired and refusing to strike the evidence with respect to robbery and capital murder in the commission of a robbery and instructing the jury on the elements of the robbery. So he's saying it shouldn't be a capital case because I didn't steal anything. There's no evidence of that. So it shouldn't be a death penalty case. Now, they said the state argued that the evidence supports that George had robbed his victim of his wallet, the two $20 bills there within, his shoes, his motorcycle, and his helmet. They said the circumstances combined with George's return to the general area of the crime the following day

permitted the jury to infer not only that George had taken the motorcycle and helmet from Alex by force and removed them from the scene of the taking, but also that George had planned to return at a subsequent time and remove the motorcycle from the woods for his own purposes. Okay. Yeah. George argues that there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever who put the motorcycle where it was found. Except for the circle on the map, man. Except you made an O, you dipshit.

He said, so far as the evidence shows, the victim himself might have put it there. What do I know? Now you're blaming Alex for it. They maintain, quote, it's pure speculation as to when, how, and why the bike was found 20 feet off the path. That's some balls right there. They said that there, the topographical map that they got from his person noted that the hand-drawn X corresponded to the body, hand-drawn O corresponding to the motorcycle. The markings obviously were made after the murder had occurred and the motorcycle and helmet had been removed from the trail to the point where they were later found. So shut the fuck up, they said basically with that.

Wow. They said they are of the opinion that they found the violence present in the grabbing continued as George took Alex into the woods, carried out his intention to have sex with him, and killed him. So, you know, they're like, basically, you're out of your fucking mind if you think that you're not getting away with this. A lot of trouble. Holy shit. Yeah, they said they conclude that you can have the capital case because the murder was so closely related in time, place, and casual connection to the robbery that the killing became part of the same enterprise. Yes. So this is all presented. They present his cellmates saying exactly what he did, all the physical evidence, obviously. The pictures, I'm sure, were terrible for these people to see.

He's cut up all over his body, bruised, burned, shot. Now the closing arguments come up. He doesn't have a lot to put up in defense either because he's pretty fucked here. He was found right by it. They found all the murder weapon on him. All he's got is, no, I didn't. That's it. Blood, bullets, it all connects him. Yeah, everything.

So during closing arguments, the prosecutor asked for the maximum punishment this is during the guilt phase too he's not only asking for guilt but also to fry him on the next phase he said for the three non-capital offenses being tried by the jury he then commented on the loss to the community and the victim's family occasioned by alex he says quote uh the prosecutors urged the jury to send a message that crimes against children will not be tolerated in the county. Quote, focus your attention on the person of the defendant right now.

This is good. He's a person who kills for profit, cruelty, and pain. He's a man who stalks and abducts. This isn't good. Jesus Christ. There are three groups that I would ask you to consider in deciding what is appropriate in this case and what George's punishment should be. The first group of people consist of Alex himself and the victims like him and really all of the children of this community.

There's been a loss which cannot be replaced. That is so obvious that it should not even have to be said. One less boy on the football field. One less boy to be coached, one less kid whose heartbeat is quickened by the sight of a pretty girl. There will be less laughter in the hallways of his school. There will be one less young man to grow to adulthood and follow in the footsteps and the example that his father has set for him. You have to consider that loss. It's not replaceable. I would ask you to consider a second group of people, the mother and father of this young man and all the parents in this. You have a mother and father who you saw

here during the course of this trial. You have to think about them. You should think about them in fixing punishment in these cases. A father who works his entire life to provide opportunities to his son, who watches him grow, develop in a way he would like him to a mother who goes down to the very shadow of death to give life to a new human being jesus that's a dramatic way to say gave birth to him fuck that's tough you made birth dark bro jesus gross enough we don't need you doing this fuck yeah he's all covered in goop and then you put that on it shit who watches him from afar with tenderness and kindness and who goes in despair when Michael George pulls the trigger? And finally, ladies and gentlemen, I would ask you to think about folks like yourselves and Mr. Ebert, who's this is the other prosecutors talking about Mr. Ebert and me and all the people in this court who have an obligation to protect the children of this community.

immunity now michael george moves for a mistrial on the ground that the argument was getting into the meritorious characteristics of the victim or the impact on the family and that's for sentencing not for not for guilt guilt phase the judge says shut the fuck up maybe learn a thing or two you cunt shitbag this is very inflammatory and is hurting my case. Child molesting murderer. Your Honor, the jury hasn't even gone out yet. I don't care. Fuck him. Lucky we didn't fucking have pitchforks and torches chasing you down. So the verdict comes down.

Five man or seven man, five woman jury, by the way, here. The jury finds him obviously guilty of every goddamn thing possible here. So during sentencing, George wants it to, wants to exclude the fact that he is a cruelty to animals and all that sort of shit. Yeah. He said that the Commonwealth's intention to proffer it and the time gap

involved and the emotional aspects of the alleged cruelty means they shouldn't say it. Because you have no proof I've tortured animals since the 70s. So how the fuck can you say I've done that? Huge time lap. And all that's going to do is inflame the jury. They're going to be mad at me for killing dogs 30 years ago, not for what I did now. They said no. He was given ample notice of the Commonwealth's intention to introduce the evidence into question and go fuck yourself.

Essentially, again, again, did that, too. I mean, yeah. Proof of that. Right. Yeah. They said the time gap of 20 years affected only the weight to be afforded to the evidence. Not its admissibility. Just weigh it, less probably. And while the evidence may have had emotional aspects, it's relevant to the determination of future dangerousness.

Yes. There you go. Indicating that the attorney general, as he terms it, a lifelong character flaw. A little more than that. It is essential in determining the probability of a defendant's future criminal conduct that the jury had before all possible relevant information about the individual defendant whose fate it must determine before he's sentenced his attorney says look he was devastated by his parents divorce when he was a child he was quote teased beat up and picked on in school which all affected him literally he's

kind of sad is what he said his parents got divorced he was picked on join the club of millions you cocksucker honest to christ and how many kids would be cuffed to trees right lash out at society in this fashion holy at other children? Right. So, wow. His defense attorney also argued that George was emotionally torn as a child and he's never healed. Okay. He said, quote, there really were two sides to Mr. George. One side that committed this heinous offense, but the other side that worked well in a controlled situation. He cooperated in jail. Sides would try to slit his throat. He'sated in jail. Besides when he tried to slit his throat.

He's also forced to. Here's the other thing. Quote, he's very polite. Oh, well, never mind. Oh, he's polite? He apologizes a lot when he tases your balls. I saw him call a woman ma'am, so we should probably let him go, I think.

Holy. He'll go, that hurt, son we should probably let him go, I think. Holy. He'll go, that hurt, son? I'm sorry. I sure do apologize. Wow. They said he's very polite. Well, that's terrific. Now, Paul Ebert steps up here, finally got the chance to slam dunk this motherfucker for good.

He says, no doubt he has a good side to him, but the bad side is the side that we as a society have to deal with. Fuck your good side, you asshole. And Ebert is pissed that he didn't get to do this before. Oh, absolutely. How would you not be? You know people are blaming him. Oh, you're back with him again now. Maybe if you all got him the first time.

I blame the police department way more than Ebert. They have to come to him with evidence. They came to him with a pile of shit and went, do we do good? He was like, no, you did terribly. You did awful. What am I supposed to do with this shit biscuit? You don't know dogs exist, you fucking morons. Who here has ever gone bird hunting?

What the fuck do the dogs do? You think they can only find birds, stupid? So he says that no doubt he has a good side. And then he says, this case, of all cases I've had, is the most heinous. This man is dangerous and society is better off without him. He killed at random and he killed young people. Yeah. So the jury deliberates less than 75 minutes.

Yay. On this, on a death penalty. That's a bad sign. The jury finds both future dangerous and vileness as well, and they sentence him, you, sir, may fuck off, death in the electric chair. Hey, in the chair. Eat all the dicks.

Holy. It'll end up being lethal injection in, like, the next chair hey in the chair eat all the dicks holy they'll it'll end up being uh lethal injection in like the next two years in virginia so the chair is off the table but at first that must have felt good to say electric chair with you cocksucker remember you electrocuted kids well shocked them electrocute murder but whatever yeah we're really gonna fucking stick it to you a little extra we're gonna put a little extra one on the balls there we're really going to fucking stick it to you. We're going to put a little extra one on the balls there for you, Chief. We're going to actually electrocute you. And this is one we've talked about it a million times. Neither of us are death penalty enthusiasts. Neither of us are protesting outside every single execution.

We fall somewhere in the middle of, I don't like this because they can't apply it fairly and they fuck up too often. But this is one of those cases where you have a guy who 1 million percent did this, 1 million percent killed another kid, who knows how many others, and will 1 billion percent fucking do this again. This is a guy I don't care. I'd love to put that sponge and cap square on his dick for sure. Yeah, absolutely. This is a guy we could strap him to a fucking rocket and shoot him into space and nobody would care. Fuck this guy.

Who cares? Let him explode in a fireworks extravaganza. Do that for the 4th of July. It'd be great. So fuck this guy. It's for lovers. It's for lovers. And look at how beautiful the fireworks are.

Come for our fireworks. Now, Alexander's mom said, we feel a great sense of relief after that, which at least there's something. And a defense attorney, Lon Farris, said, quote, the battle is not over. Oh, boy. And it's not, too. April 9th, 1993, he is going to get a little lucky here. The Virginia Supreme Court stays the execution of him here, according to that he did not request a lawyer for a second round of appeals after his direct appeal was turned down by the U.S. Supreme Court. And they say set aside his execution date because he didn't have a lawyer when he should have had a lawyer. George initially said he wanted to die, but then two weeks after the date was set, he

requested to file an appeal, and then he asked for a stay so he could have adequate time to prepare his case. So it's all on him. He delayed this. The stay request was turned down, but then approved by the Virginia Supreme Court. He had a lawyer, though, so why doesn't he have one now? It's a different lawyer for appeals than regular. A lot of times you have different specialties there.

So June of 1994, it's still going on. See, the whole thing's dragging on. The U.S. Supreme Court refuses to hear his appeal, finally. The court's action was taken without comment and they said you know no go back to that so now he's gonna he gets another execution date set right june 21st 1995 execution delayed again is scheduled for uh it was supposed to be in like a week but they they contend motions filed for a new hearing that prosecutors did not prove he killed the boy in the course of a robbery and an aspect of the crime that made it punishable by death. So they have to go over that.

Because we don't know where the $40 is? We don't know where the $40 is or the wallet. Literally, that's what this is all coming down to. Did he take $40? There's no way to prove he took $40. Right. There's no way to prove. But you know what else he took, though?

What was he standing next to? No, what else was he standing next to? His shoes. He robbed him of his shoes. Get him for the shoes. Take him for the shoes. Fuck it. He was had in him.

Fuck it. Take the shoes. I'm telling you. Who cares? Shoes off his feet? Good enough. Fuck it. October 12, 1995, a federal judge refuses to hear an appeal from George here.

He says that the U.S. District Court judge denies it. He's being held. It was on a similar type of thing of was the robbery a thing. So this one ends up going all the way to the Supreme Court. Wow. Because it's in the whether it was in the commission of a robbery or not. This is fucking crazy. He's supposed to be killed. This is 1997. court wow because it's in the whether it was in the commission of a robbery or not this is fucking crazy he's supposed to be killed this is 1997 he's supposed to be executed like the next

day yeah it goes to the supreme court uh lawyers said they did not plan to file a clemency petition with the governor governor george allen if this fails uh they said this execution would be the first in virginia this year and tie the state state of Florida for the second largest number of executions since the reimposition of the death penalty. That's something to brag about. That's something very nice to brag about. George's lawyers, in asking for a stay of execution from the Supreme Court, argued that, among other factors, there was insufficient evidence to prove that he had stolen the money or the motorcycle from Alex, which I don't really see that. Under Virginia law, prosecutors have to prove that George also robbed him for him to be put to death. The petition to the high court also said that the prosecutor delivering the closing arguments

in the guilt phase of the trial improperly appealed to the jury to consider the impact of Alex's death on his survivors, which you can't do in a guilt phase. Okay. So they said that, uh, the attorney also argued that the, uh, there was other comments that Ebert made.

Now the father of Alex Attila is his name, by the way. Yeah. Attila. Yeah. He said he's bitter that this execution is going to be by lethal injection. He wanted the electric chair. And he said he's angry that the inmate gets to say goodbye to his family, too.

Not only do I want to kill him, I want to put like a black bag over his head in the middle of the night and take him to like a field and just put a bullet in his head. Like, that's how I want it to be done. I want to tell him how alone he is. Yeah, I want him to think he's being taken to like a black ops site by the CIA or some shit. He says, quote, he will be able to have prayers said, and then he's going to have a very easy way of leaving this earth. Alex didn't have all that.

Yes, true. Yes, as a society, we can't handcuff him to a tree and stun gun his balls until he dies. That's the difference between murder and punishment. That's the idea. That's the idea. I get where he's coming from, but at the same time. 100% on board. I get it.

Yeah, believe me. If this guy, if Attila broke into the prison, dragged him out, handcuffed him to a tree, and stun gunned his balls until he died, I'd go, I get it, dude. I'd give him a pass on this. But this, by the way. With a society, we'd have to throw you in prison for that, Attila. Do you want that? We don't want that. We can't turn a blind eye to that.

That's crazy. That's premeditation. That's premeditation. This could be one of the quickest executions in a long, long time if this goes through, actually, because it's only been less than six years since the actual conviction. One of the reasons involves appeal case reforms in the state, they said. Under the reforms, appeals move faster because judges don't impose a time limit for the next step to be filed. The state reforms were implemented in July 95 and federal changes soon followed. They said they're not losing any amount of appeals. They're just having dates set into their appeals process.

So it doesn't take 10 to 12 years. It takes more like three to four years. Got it. There's still a lot of delays. It's just there's no big time delays you have to have now. have to have now so the supreme court votes on an execution of clemency seven to two to deny him clemency and tell him he's getting executed so seven to two and the two were for the robbery thing because they had never proven the wallet they said that's kind of not really but and also the prosecutor did make improper comments in the closing arguments but it's

not disputable i have the quote of what he said you're not allowed to say comments in the closing arguments but it's not disputable i have the quote of what he said you're not allowed to say that in the guilt phase but they said not enough to overturn because they'll say a lot of times they it has to be would this have changed the outcome and it wouldn't have changed the outcome at all it would have been fuck off so he should have just chased him with the shoes god damn damn it. Fuck the money. Or the shoes. Yeah, he had his shoes. Had his fucking shoes. So the lawyers for George do not file a clemency petition with Governor George Allen, and they are turned down by the Supreme Court. Though George did not request executive clemency from the governor, George Allen said he reviewed the case anyway and decided he had found no reason to intervene.

He said, quote, as a father, I'm particularly aware of and sensitive to the profound pain and loss suffered by the parents of the victim taken from them at such a young age and in such a brutal manner. Yeah. You, sir, may fuck off. You can keep going.

Yeah. February the 6th, 1997. Hey. Execution day. All right. Let's get it on. Fuck this guy. So Michael George's mother and father and three brothers are the last to visit him.

Wow. So he's got a bunch of brothers. Did they all kill kids or did they all fucking deal with the divorce and then go get a job later and shut the fuck up about it like an adult? Yeah, like you're supposed to. Like a goddamn adult human being last words here last words we'll get to and then we'll get to the best part though last words were quote i've prepared a written statement and given it to my pastor that's it he's heard it you suck we'll find out what that letter was actually though, though. Now, his last meal, Jimmy.

Yes. Last meal. What did he do? Did he stick it to us again? Listen, no, no, this isn't a basic, but this is a, what an asshole. This is his choice? This is his choice. A pizza with green peppers, onions, and extra cheese. What?

No meat. No meat on that. A slice of apple pie and-huh and a diet seven up a diet seven up who eat what what are you i didn't even know it was an option you're being executed post haste what are we talking about have some sugar what the fuck I don't care if you're a full-blown diabetic. Give me all of it. I don't care. Throw a Twix on top of that shit.

What do I care? He prefers diet. For his last earthly sip of something, he chose diet 7-Up. Green pepper onion breath? That's it? Tastes like lime juice somebody pissed in. Nobody wants diet 7-Up. That's disgusting.

That's a terrible meal. Why would he do that? That's one of the worst last meals we've ever had. Imagine having those flavors mixing in your mouth. Green peppers, onions, diet 7-Up. An apple pie. An apple pie. Oh, God.

All mixed together. What an asshole. He blew it. Yeah. I judge him from this whole episode on, obviously, his crimes, callousness to human beings, and what a piece of shit. But this is over the top. This is profound. His palate is way worse than mine.

Oh, it's terrible. When people go to the Supreme Court for a stay of execution, they should say, what do you plan on having for your last meal? And if they say that, they go, you know what? Fuck you. We're killing you. That's terrible. That's a terrible idea. You have no imagination.

Onions, green pepper, extra cheese, no meat, a slice of apple pie, a total veggie deal here, and a can and a diet 7-Up. Diet. Diet. What do you kill kids or something you monster yeah that's that sounds like that sounds like the lunch of a kid diddler doesn't i like it with just onions and peppers and i get a slice apple pie on the side and if i don't love diet seven up keeps the weight off my diet seven up kids don't like fat guys you know what i mean trying to keep this is trying to keep it hot for the afterlife yeah jesus keeping it tight for the afterlife baby that's his slogan he's got fucking t-shirts made up tight for the afterlife what a piece of shit so he's finally laid down at 9 18 p.m he is pronounced dead from lethal injection and uh good riddance fuckhead

don't care at all about this guy he wouldn't care for sure obvious how many other people did he kill jimmy how many other people did he kill no idea you don't go i'll take someone drag them into the woods handcuff them to a fucking tree, beat them, cut them with a machete, because I know what I'm into now, and I know the thing that gets me off, which is beating, cutting with a machete, stun gunning to the balls, all that shit progress, and then killing

them. He's done this a lot. A lot. This is disturbing. And we know he kidnapped tons of kids and took them into the woods and stun gunned them. Who knows how many he killed in different areas. Rambo, the Rambo rapes. Oh, God.

So reactions here. A delegate, I guess this is, for the state here witnessed the execution for Prince William County. He said, this is my first execution. It's a very sobering experience. It brings an end to a very tragic killing. Unfortunately, probably it will never bring closure to the grief the family of the young boy will have to go through. Well, no shit. Yeah.

Forever. So finally here, the letter that he wrote. Yeah. What do you say? He wrote a letter. It was delivered by his minister to Alex's parents. That's who he wrote the letter to his last statements to alex's parents it's a one-page letter delivered to gail and atilla and it recognized uh that they might not be able to grant his request uh but he wants forgiveness from them oh so the mother gail said if some if this is something that made it easier for him to accept his fate and allowed him to die with some sense of hope for that reason alone, it has some merit.

Now, the boy's father, though, Attila, as we know, he's not so easy to crack. Oh, no, no, no. He has no he doesn't play that shit. He's an angry foreign man, it sounds like. And he said the letter doesn't erase his anger at all. He doesn't care. He said, quote, I felt just like I did before. It doesn't help Alex at all. Absolutely.

Gail, though the mother said it appeared, George thought about what he wanted to say for a long time and was trying to express remorse. She didn't want the typewritten letter published out of respect for what she presumed were George's wishes. She said it's going to take some time to get everything in perspective. That's a very nice woman. It's a very nice person.

He must have said, I have nothing to say to anybody but you, or something to that effect in the letter. You know what I mean? It had to be an admission. Yeah. And it had to be an admission and a remorseful something that's what the parole board wants to hear yet exactly there isn't a parole board for this nope nope yeah at least he didn't say hey fuck you i did tortured your boy and i right because there's some killers do that right that albert fish letter horrific and yeah at least he actually right i don't know i

don't know what that is i don't know if that. I don't know if that's trying to get, you know, if you get a sudden burst of religion in you and you're trying to, you know, get right with the afterlife or some shit. I don't know. I'm not sure how that shit works. But there was an editorial about this, just a scathing editorial about he should have never been out in the fucking first place here. Well, obviously. Yeah, they said George was allowed. I'll give you a quote here from this. he should have never been out in the fucking first place here. Well, obviously. Yeah. They said George was allowed. I'll give you a quote here from this.

George was allowed to plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter and served just two and a half years of a five year sentence. This is from the Paducah son, by the way, even allowing for the apparent weakness of the case because of the lack of body, the penalty was absurdly light. It was within the,

it was the sentencing guidelines of involuntary manslaughter this is let me make myself sound this is what politicians do i'm going to say something that's obviously not reasonable but it gets an emotional reaction out of you even though logically it was impossible for this thing that i'm talking about to be done so they said yeah here's what i wish and the release of such a man on an unsuspecting public was inexcusable. Worse still, incidents of this sort are all too common. They happen all over the country, leaving anguished victims and anguished victims and the public at large to wonder why the state did not act decisively to prevent a criminal from repeating his crimes when it had them in hand. Virginia finally did in the case of Michael Carl George by applying the ultimate deterrent. The man's crimes may have provided that state a valuable lesson.

We hope Kentucky, noting its own set of failures, has learned something as well, because this is from Paducah. But there is nothing you can learn from that. You can learn how to investigate a fucking child's disappearance better. You can learn fucking dogs exist. Yeah. You can learn. You can learn that when you do poorly investigate and you don't have a body and you have shitty evidence.

No evidence whatsoever. When a guy goes in, fucking, you better have a better way of having sentencing guidelines because that guy's just getting right back out. You got to work harder, that's all. And the problem is under involuntary manslaughter a lot of times when they charge involuntary manslaughter it's tragic circumstances that are you feel just as bad for the person who killed the person as the person who died sometimes it's i killed my friend by accident by doing this

and it wasn't you know it wasn't trying to kill him obviously it was some you know irresponsibility or and he got bumped into those sentencing guidelines. That's it. That's all you can do. It's the way he was sentenced. It's the way he served the time, for Christ's sake. Gee, I don't know. Maybe if the cops investigated it properly from the very fucking beginning, they would have been able to figure it out and gather some goddamn evidence if three years didn't go by before they even fucking talked to the murderer.

Maybe that would have been, or even searched him. If you go looking at 11 p.m. when a nine-year-old is missing, maybe you find something. Maybe you stick with it that night and you stay out there. So it's Larry Perry, by the way, Larry Wayne Perry,

still listed as a cold case all over the place, says we know what happened. It's not a cold case. Maybe the body, we don't know what's up with the body, but we definitely know what happened to him. So it's weird that it's a cold case. Maybe the body. We don't know what's up with the body, but we definitely know what happened to him. So it's weird that it's a cold case still.

And they're saying he'd be this old today and all that. He's not alive. We know he's not alive. Use some taxpayer money and test those fucking bones. Test the bones. So I guess, I don't know if they did or not, but his missing person. His bones don't exist still. Jesus.

Yeah. Here he is on NAMUS.NI-U-S dot N-I-J dot O-J-P dot gov. This is a missing persons site here. He is number MP missing person 22997, Larry Wayne Perry. Awful. And obviously, it says his NCMEC number, whatever that means if people know about kidnappings and shit like that. 1-2-3-8-2-8-6. So if you come across his body, I guess tell somebody about it.

I don't know what action I can tell our listeners to take here. But that is Dumfries and Woodbridge, Virginia. And that's crazy, man. That's just fucking crazy. This guy. Is it serial killer? Is it three? Or is it two?

Three. It's three. It ought to be two. Well, he says he did three, and I think he did ten. Yeah, I think he did way more. I'm calling this cat a serial killer. He's got all the tropes. Dude, he handcuffed someone that's

he did like some crazy ted bundy shit to these people you know like but worse bundy would fucking would kill right in their place and then do it afterwards take them somewhere yeah this is like btk shit this is btk would have got off hard on this shit boy like him and btk together would have been all sparky big time. Those two would have been fucking feeding off each other. So there you go, everybody. If you like that story, well, it's a terrible story. That's a bad way to put it.

If you like the way we told that story, definitely get on whatever app you're listening on, from Apple Podcast to whatever, this one, that one, Audible, anything, up and down the line. Give us a review. Leave us five stars. It helps the show so much. We don't knowudible, anything, up and down the line, give us a review. Leave us five stars. It helps the show so much. We don't know why, but it shoots you up the charts a lot

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Shut up and give me murder.com. Blah, blah, blah. Okay. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is murder.com blah blah blah okay patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus material there is so much bonus material anybody five dollars or above not only only are you going to get the whole back catalog with like

200 bonus episodes to binge on every two weeks you get two new ones oh yeah one small town murder and one crime and sports and you and you get access to both of them. They're all yours. Anything we put out bonus wise. And this week is no different for crime and sports, which you're going to get. We're going to talk about players who have been caught paying for sex in embarrassing ways. There's so many of them.

And some of them are so ridiculous and funny how they try to get out of it. What the shit they say. No, you think you're not what you think. When they get caught, it's so funny. So we'll talk all about that. For Small Town Murder, it's Casey Anthony time. We're going to talk about her.

We're going to talk about her bullshit documentary that she made where she tried to say a bunch of shit. And we'll talk about the actual facts because I have a lot of them, and I've read several books and read all the court stuff and every document available. It doesn't look good for her. Wow, is she full of shit. It's amazing.

We'll get into all of that obviously here. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all that and you get a shout out. Oh, you bet. Jimmy's going to mispronounce your name

and you're going to get that shout out right fucking now. Right now. Jimmy, please hit me with the names of the most wonderful people in the world who never carry around 50 000 volt stun guns and looking for teenagers hit me with them right now this week's executive producers are liz minton thank you liz that was very nice of you to

say wendy mcgath justy justine mcneil and her cousin ray prosser happy birthday ray happy birthday della and brie uh and their murder birdbird tarot card tattoos wanted to say hello. Oh, I saw those. Awesome. Those are dope as shit. I saw those on social media. They did a great job. Wow, that was cool.

Single line. They look great. Other producers this week are Rabbi Shmulalovich's hamster, Rusty, Peyton Meadows. Oh, Rusty. Such a cute little guy. Andy Spankter. I'll bet he did. Sebastian, happy birthday did sebastian happy birthday

hey happy birthday i don't know if she uh the gal was saying it to you or if there's actually a sebastian in her life saying happy birth i don't know sebastian that was it all right it just makes me think of dope sick love that's the point of it yeah that was the point yeah douglas samaric uh c merrick maybe i know. Janice Hill, the Fallopian tube tickler. Fallopian. All right. Steve Schnell, hairy knob gobbler. All right.

That's fun, too. Also, Taylor, your wife Liz slept with Nelly, and she wanted you to know. But also, she has taken us to Small Town Murder Live in Chicago, so that's the other news. Good. Don't beat her at our show, please. Way which one of those news is most important to you? Martine Colomino, Carrie Blackburn, Trenton Graham, Amy Krim, John Rogers, Nicole Lazo, Lazo Laws, maybe Lazy, MJ McClung, F Schweizer, Rost Olson, Michael Podolsky.

Nope. Yes. Something Polish. Kyle Rau, Sidney Rataseski. Ratatouille. Sidney Ratatouille. You next to the Polack. All right, here we go. Moving on.

Alexa Tyson, Lorraine Silvani. Okay. to the pollock all right here we go moving on alexa tyson uh laureen lauren uh sylvaini okay uh lars chris uh krizelska krizelka god damn it why are they so hard jake brown that's easy uh jonathan manheim the steamroller uh he didn't say that i I did. The steamroller. Here he comes. Natara Joyner. That's his college nickname. The steamroller, buddy. Here he comes. Timothy. Jeffrey Bokufinski.

Boku. Bokufinski. Boku Boku. Appreciate you, Chief. Boku. Boku. Boku. Nicole Erickson. Betty Ann Bernard. appreciate it. Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo-

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Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo-

Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Boo- Michael Trujillo, Barbara Blaine, Danielle Trujanowicz, QW, Tamara R., Alicia, Alicia Peterson, Dee Dee Johnson, Rebecca Wright, Marcy Smith, Cassie with no last name, Travis Simpkins,

Strats Family, the whole goddamn family, the whole fam-damly, David Miller, King Creeper, 57, Belinda, Cullen Drace, Cullen Daris, Oh, boy. Brett Gregory. John with no last name. Brenda Void. Mike with no last name. Or is it MKE? I don't know. I may misspell that. Maybe he's from Milwaukee.

Possible. The whole town of Milwaukee. Hallie Johnson. No, that's Hallie Smith. Why did I say Johnson? Wow. Travis Stone. Shirley and Connor O'leary mary lang shiloh uh

bailey dalex rich what is that a name uh sophie banister john or maybe jan or maybe yawn so satirist trober troughbur uh benjamin that sounds good tay Tayesha, 33, Dallas Unknown, Chris with no last name, Chris Fletcher, Caddy Wagon, Angelina Hanson, Lahoma Prater, Rebecca Hargreaves, Emily Goodman, Don Sanborn-Lahone, Jessica Brucaleria brucola broke it off in my ass joshua is that what you're talking about jessica brucolieri for a show fucking no way in hell okay megan lowry barbara villa via lobos uh faith johnston jennifer stanger uh cindy Robbins, Maude, if you see, Kay Martin. Maybe Call, if you see, Kay? Maybe.

I'll keep an eye out. Oh, if you see, Kay. Got it? See? All right. That's a very Britney Spears reference, I think. Micah Barnes, Grilled Panda, Burt, new delivery menu. Christy with no last name.

Jo Lane. Jo Lane? Jo Lane. Campbell. Phil H last name. JoLane. JoLane? JoLane. Campbell. Phil Holt. It's two names. JoLane, but it's not JoLene. Do you see where the confusion is for me?

Ryan Christopher. Kristoff, or maybe Kirsten. Bury. Jamie West. Brock Byard. Byard Bayard. That's probably it. Desiree.

Desiree. Perks. Lucian Hunt. Dustin Williams. Tony with no last name. Michelle E. Bassley. Maybe that's probably Desiree Desiree perks Lucien Hunt Dustin Williams Tony would know last name Michelle E. Bassley maybe that's a Y I don't know if she's trying to do that Spanish wise Michelle and Bassley or is it Michelle Y Bassley last middle name Yvonne all right Ashley Everly Iyer Iyer Lee uh yep Shannon Miles. West Miller. Catherine Reinhart. John with no last name. Peter Carlson. Stephen Fawcett. Nicole Winkleseth. Cameron Schmidt. Bradley. Getchell. Oh, boy. Jim Brown. Probably not that one because he's dead. Katie Anderson. Hillary Patterson. Jordan Ebner. John Gould. Don't marry a woman named Jewel. Ashley Ripek Ripeach. Jewel Gould.

Jewel Gould. Like fucking wedding singer. Julia Gould. Julia Gould, yeah. Jordan Remboldt, Dana Ziegler, Johnny Norris, Norris. Meth Detective, Jordan with no last name. Rob with no last name. Morgan Leslie, Jamal Hill Hill. Matt Rosentitis.

That's when you're addicted to baseball pitching. Jamie Schnell. I feel like that sounds like. Joseph. Yalibis. Maritza. Irizaria. Irizari.

I'm real sorry. Corey Hodges. Adrienne Clayton. Timothy Barton. Olivia with no last name. Mahalia Smith. Eric with no last name. Richard Young. Rochelle Hoke, Christian Ordaz, Caitlin Moore, Sheila Morrison, Sloppy Elephant, Tanya with no last name, LXO Specht, Wayne Zonka, Sarah Grotemeyer. Yeah. Yes. Different spelling, but close. Yeah, same thing.

Elizabeth Burlington. Alex Smith. Probably could be, possibly. Maybe. Eric. Like ceiling. Erica Lacey. Ramsey Watkins.

Don Ryan. Jennifer with no last name. Reagan Bell. Bridger Joslin. Mark Anderson. Probably not. He's dead also. And all of our patrons. guys are amazing thank you so much

thank you everybody so much for everything that you do from the bottom of our hearts we appreciate the shit out of you we hope you love the bonus material and hope you just thank you for supporting the show we really do appreciate that everything you do for you make the show go and

happen so we are so grateful we everything you do for you make the show go and happen so we are so grateful we can't even tell you to you all thank you so much if you want to get a hold of us on social media either one of us or both of us very easy to do that shut up and give me murder.com links to everything yeah links to social media links to it all come find us keep come back and keep seeing us and until next everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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