Small Town Murder - #405 - The Horny Teacher's Lounge - Upper Merion Township, Pennsylvania

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

This week, in Upper Merion Township, Pennsylvania, a twisted tree of relationships, among a group of suburban high school teachers spins completely out of control, when a meek, married woman is romanced by a fellow teacher, who is seemingly irresistible to all the ladies. This causes a series of actions that leads to an absolutely gruesome murder, that was allegedly predicted in a dream. A real mess ensues, as detectives try to sort out the tangled mess left behind!!Along the way, we find out that this town is incredibly old, that teachers get very horny, and that it looks suspicious when you accurately predict a murder that financially benefits you!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Upper Merion Township, Pennsylvania, a twisted tree of relationships, including lovers, liars, and killers, inhabit a suburban school's teaching core, leading to as many as five gruesome murders.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Ha ha, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy episode of Small Town Murder. Man, is this one twisted and weird and wild and 70s and just, it's all sorts of big old bushes. Let's just say that. This episode is the episode of puffy pubes. A lot of Velcro.

A lot of Velcro. We will get into get into it but first just want to say thanks for all that you do for us number one yeah and also head over to shut up and give me murder.com oh boy your tickets for live shows especially chicago august the 12th tickets are going fast it's going to be right now as it is it's our biggest show ever yeah be a part of it it's going to be by the way chicago only live, so it's a show you can only see in Chicago. Get out there. August the 12th. We cannot wait. And then a lot of the dates are sold out for the rest of the year. The only ones left with tickets, because DC just sold out, so Philly, Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas. Those are your options. And they're moving fast, so

Philly's almost sold out, I think. So get your tickets right now for all of that and uh get in there and come out and see us shut up and give me murder.com you certainly want to get patreon if you want bonus episodes because our bonus we don't sit around for five minutes it's an they're hour-long funny really good episodes it's like a whole other series we have going on over there so So patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get all of that. All you need, $5 a month or above, gets you a cup of coffee, will get you all the bonus stuff.

First of all, you'll have a whole big back catalog of bonus episodes to binge on, couple hundred of those, and new ones every other week. Best value in podcasting. This week what you're going to get for Crime and Sports, which you'll have access to, of course, we're going to talk about the 1919 Black Sox scandal.

So World Series throwing and mafia and all sorts of dirty stuff. It's going to be a lot of fun. Most dirty is how little they were getting paid back then, leaving themselves wide open to this. And then for small town murder, we're going to do something very fun based on some interesting goings on lately we're going to talk about weird stories from the titanic which is some survivor stories some weird stories some lady threw a baby in a garbage can it's really weird there's some strange stories from this man when you get into the survivor's tales that some stuff that was certainly not in the movie and a couple other sea mysteries we'll get into as well I hope she did that after the iceberg

hit. No no no she did that like right after in the middle of dinner she was just tired just tired of it right when she got on the bus this is inconvenient that is patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that and more get in there and

do that and also keep an in there and do that. And also keep an eye out for your stupid opinions. We finally got it. Oh, yeah. And it's coming very soon. I don't know the exact which week next week or the week after or whatever, but it's coming very soon. We can't wait. Your stupid opinions.

Keep an eye out on social media. We'll let you know all about that. But now we must do the disclaimer. Yeah. This is a comedy show. We're comediansians but that doesn't mean anything that we're saying is made up for any kind of comedic effect you don't need to that's the scary and sad part is you really don't need to make up anything because the stories are so insane and this one is no different and if you think you know you think maybe oh how do you make

jokes around murder very easily It's a very crazy. What you do is you don't. There's nothing funny about actual the killings, but everything around it is insane. I think everything else. I think I'll kill someone and then get away with it. That's a crazy thought to have. Yeah, that's that's worthy of being made fun of. So we're going to talk about all of that stuff.

What we don't do, though, we go out of our way not to do. We don't make fun of the victims or the victims families. why james because we're assholes yeah but but we're not scumbags that's how that works if you think that sounds good awesome if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together pads should never cross i don't know that's a boring life but hey you know what to each his own have a good one it was a bad first date didn't work out but for the rest of you that want to hear a wild crazy insane story i think it's time everyone to sit back clear the lungs arms to the sky and let's all shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jim. What do you say?

Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. Let's do it. We're going to Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah, baby. Back to Pennsylvania. There are very few states that are so different in different parts of the state. Right.

Eastern Pennsylvania is way different than Western Pennsylvania. You have Philly, which is like a big northeastern city, then you have like the amish who are like two hours away for it's so there's countries in europe that don't have this much drastic shift it's such a shift yeah it's huge so it's a lot there's a big state this is upper marion township uh pennsylvania which you might sound familiar to you if you're a basketball fan, because I think Kobe Bryant was a lower Marion Township guy. There you go. Yeah. I do see all those letters prominently displayed across the entire front of his jersey. It's a long one.

That's a lot of words. That's why you still see that jersey in places that sell retro jerseys. You'll say, what the hell is that?'s kobe brian is that it's a high school in southeastern pennsylvania because that's where we are here it's kind of i think it's on the other side of philly because our last episode this is about 50 minutes to philly and about 55 minutes to falzington which was our last pennsylvania episode which was over like on the New Jersey border. And this is over kind of more toward more into Pennsylvania. The last episode was episode 360 meat or I'm sorry, meth, meat, money and murder, which was one of my finer titles, I must say.

This is in Montgomery County, area code 610 and 484. So it can't be held to one area code. This town, you get to A little bit of history here. The incorporation of this town dates to 1713. Yeah, when there were townships. Old school, yeah. When the King of Prussia Inn. What?

The inn called the King of Prussia. There's a town called King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. That's near there. So they've got an inn. Yeah, also the Bird in Hand Inn in Gulf Mills and later the Swedes Ford Inn here. The reason why they incorporated was because they were required at this point to pay six shillings to the Pennsylvania legislature for licenses. They still had shillings. Shillings.

That's how far back we are. 1713. 50 years plus before even American Revolution. So this is, George Washington isn't even born yet. This is fucking. No kidding. This is crazy stuff, man. Yeah.

So the King of Prussia Inn was built in 1719, and I believe the structure is still there, if I'm not mistaken. Wow. It was named in honor of Frederick the Great and became known during the Revolutionary War as a center of food and drink for people around here. And an alternate story says the inn was first called Berry's Tavern and got its name to lure in Prussian mercenaries who were like big spenders, apparently. Fucking Prussians. I don't even know where the fuck that is. Germany. That's Germany pre-1900-ish. Prussia?

Prussia. Yeah, Germany is Prussia. So if you know anything about Prussian, that's German. It was the old borders of Germany and all that shit. So reviews of this town. Okay, here we go. I love the reviews. Here we are here.

Five stars. There is no place like Upper Marion. Terrific. Not only are the schools exceptional, and we'll talk about one of them at least today, but the people who make up the community truly care about each other. Okay. That's nice. The residents of Upper Marion are willing to do anything to help out their neighbors.

Anything? Anything. let's put that to the test why don't we let's see exactly what you're willing to do to help out your neighbors i'm surprised this is like you know there's an 80 year old lady and a couple of guys shovel her driveway i feel like that's what this is but right it's not anything really i can't my sperm counts too low will you please bang my wife? Yeah, please. You know. Or at least. I want a baby so bad. Yeah.

It's like the Mr. Show sketch. What did I miss now? I can only do it unless somebody's watching. And then this one was. So they have a couple over and they're like, hey, you know, we're trying to have a baby. And Bob Odenkirk's like, of course you can have my sperm. And they're like, no, no, no. We don't want your sperm.

We can only have sex if people are watching will you watch us have sex it's funny as shit why are they such geniuses it's fucking genius man it comes up constantly on this show too it always yeah it's only on it's only up for four seasons and everything can tie back to a Mr. Show sketch somehow that's so weird those two men god damn it i love them uh so here's uh no place like upper marion okay now four stars here we go traffic is rough and the area is being built up quickly but the housing slash family living is wonderful they still manage to get that small town feeling though this is far from a small town area okay Okay. Okay. Three stars. Providing better public transportation options, such as increasing the number of bus routes or expanding the train system, residents can have better access to jobs, education, and other essential services. Yeah.

Everything's right there now. All they care about is they need to have more public transportation options, period. No other interests. Here we go. Two stars. Okay. Now is the way they start out now i love when they start a review now now they're doing the old bill cosby now now we have the good parts and the bad parts i'm gonna list all the bad parts that's how he starts out is that what he says i swear to god i'm gonna list all the bad parts in order's how he starts out. Is that what he says? I swear to God, I'm going to list all the bad parts in order.

Bill Cosby could have said this. Now, as you start to doze off, those are the last words you hear. So, one, Swedesburg. Two,

Kings Manor. Three, Valley Forge Homes. Okay. Four, Brandywine Village. These sound like neighborhoods, not like towns. You're right.

These sound like gated communities. Yeah, it's like I don't like the people that live in those houses. Five, Sweetland slash Hughes Park. Six, Sweetbriar. Seven, Bridgeport. Okay, so with zero reasons, this is just the bad part. I don't understand it. That just the bad part i i don't understand it i yeah just that's the bad okay i was born and raised in sweetbriar king of prussia upper marion which is the area around 6 11

6 11 the fuck are you talking about until i move yeah until around i think i don't know what they're talking about until i moved to malvern when i was 15 my mom and dad said the crime was too rampant and it isn't safe. Well, that doesn't mean it's true because your mom and dad told you that when you were a kid. Just because they said. My mom said a six-foot-tall bunny brought me chocolate once a year, too. Yeah, my mom lied her ass off. We all do. We all lie to our kids constantly.

Yeah. People sold drugs around 6-11. What is 6-11? I don't know what that is, but he's obsessed with it. I thought he meant between ages 6 and 11. Yeah, but he just says around 6-11. My mom said the schools were bad. Whatever school you ended up in, that's your sentence?

The academics were good, but the safety was bad, and the teachers are embarrassing. They're embarrassing. The kids are bad influences, too. She wanted me to get a better education. When I lived in Sweetbriar, I've seen a couple of my friends die. Jesus. What the fuck? They were just dirt bike accidents, but still, man, shit's hard.

You watched it? I wanted to get out of Sweetbriarar but my parents couldn't afford a house where the district was good until she found malvern i hope the kids who are in sweetbriar live a good life sweetbriar is one of the worst neighborhoods of town i don't know what to make of that that's real local all that shit is real local but yeah i don't know what's up with that shit sweetbriar is his number six in his list of bad. So, terrible stuff. Here's one star. Much more succinct.

This guy could have really got to the point. One star. One star. I hate it. Period. Then, they get into a whole sentence of capital letters here. It's just so, three O's, suspicious. And the schools I heard have a bunch of drama.

I'm hearing, and a guy told me once, once and my mom said a lot of that going on real sus around here yeah that's exactly right there's a good amount of crime there's litter and a bunch of traffic not litter and traffic there's this is not a one-star review no you don't live on farm. There's going to be litter and traffic somewhere. People of this town, 33,153 people currently reside here. So it's a pretty good-sized suburb, yeah, on the top end of what we do here. There's a few more females and males. It's pretty basically average. Median age, a little bit higher, 40.7.

Everything is pretty close except married is 57%. It's a little above the national average, that sort of thing. But it's a lot of kind of married children. The prices are high, so you kind of have to have a two-income area here. Two high-income area. Mom's a lawyer. Dad's a doctor. We live in Upper Marion.

It's one of those. There's a dentist in the family. Totally. Race of this town, 70% white, 4.8% black, 18.5% Asian, which is. Is that right? I haven't heard that in any place we've ever done or even talked about. That's very high for any American town. Not that that's bad. I mean, you can have as many Asians as you like.

It's just a fact. Yeah. It's just odd. It's not. I didn, you can have as many Asians as you like. It's just a fact. Yeah. It's just odd. It's not. I didn't put them in different places at all. I'm not putting a quota. Don't worry. It's not any shit like that.

3.8% Hispanic here. So it's usually flipped between Asian and Hispanic. Religion in this town, 64.3% religious in a northeastern affluent town. Oh, boy. Who do you think those are? They are the Catholics. Ash Wednesdayastern affluent town. Oh, boy. Who do you think those are? They are the Catholics. Ash Wednesday is ugly around here. Oh, man.

38.5% Catholic. Catholics are, as we know, the Baptists of the north. 4.3% Jewish. Hey! Oh, my God. Hava Nagila. Hava Nagila. Hava Nagila.

I don't know the words. Hey! All right. It's been so long since we've got to sing that. I'm so happy. Montgomery County, where this is located, in the last election, 62.4% of the people voted Democratic, 36.2% voted Republican, and 1.4% Independent. So Upper Merion's unemployment rate's pretty low,

because, I mean, you're driving distance to Philly. It's right there. You got no reason not to have a job. It's right there. There's jobs there. Median household income here, though, is $80,068. Hell yeah. Which is a lot higher than the $54,000 average.

Great. Cost of living here,000 being average, regular. Here it's $113,000. That's much better than I thought. I was going to say $113,000 point something, but it's not. It's just $113,000. $113,000 isn't that bad, but the problem is everything else is affordable but

the housing. What is it? Median home cost here, $451,700. A little pricey, but I mean that's Phoenix now,700. So a little pricey. But, I mean, that's Phoenix now. You know what I mean? Yeah. Everywhere in Arizona is out of fucking control. Oh, yeah. Wait till you hear the Express this week.

It's in Flagstaff. And wait till you hear what that's all about. God, I already know. It's crazy stuff. I've tried to get there. It's impossible. It's so hard. We convinced you, possibly, to get there. It's impossible. It's so hard. We convinced you possibly to come here.

We have for you the Upper Merion Township, Pennsylvania real estate report. All right. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for, it's a little bit high, $1,470, which is high, but not like the housing. Here we go. Here's a four-bedroom, two-bath, 2,448-square-foot place here. That's big. Yeah, it seems to be a pretty normal-sized lot, you know, nothing huge. One room looks to have AstroTurf in it.

I don't know what that's about. Someone was doing a putting thing. Indoor, outdoor. Yeah, it says indoor. We can use it. I'm not sure, but otherwise it looks, it's clean. Inside, the outside looks like the inside and the inside looks like the outside.

The porch looks like it's indoors and the living room looks like it's a porch. It's so weird. That's the best way to describe it. Like the stone and the wood used is like they use the outside shit on the inside and the inside shit on the outside. It's very, very strange. Otherwise it's clean and meh it's just it's all right but it's 499 000 for that's our base model for a whole lot of meh yeah that's our that's our stick with no ac right there so here's a five-bath tea bowl for each and every b-hole. One for the neighbors.

3,145 square foot, so very good-sized house on 1.15 acres. Fantastic. A little bit of room, a little elbow room. Little weird house. It's strange. It's built in 1953, and Allison had a good point here. She said she thought it was once a little ranch and they kept building parts onto it. And that's what it looks like. They Frankensteined this house that's now 3,100,

you know, almost 3,200 square feet. It's real boring. It's just this raised ranch that they kept building stuff on. It's nothing special. $1,195,000 for this house, though. 1.1. It's not even shit. 1.2 basically. Oh my god. $1,195,000 for this house, though. 1.1. It's not even shit.

1.2, basically. Oh, my God. $1,195,000. So it's a little expensive for what it is here. Then we have a six-bedroom, five-bath, 5,954-square-foot house. Wow. That's a big house. Yeah.

2.49 acres, so some room. Built in 1920. It's pretty badass, I gotta say. It's got stone. The outside's all like the stone front. It's probably not just glued onto the outside because it was built in 1920. It's probably actually stone. Looks really good.

Really looks like a rich old couple lives there. The decorative touches are like, oh, you guys are 90 and have done well for yourselves. That's nice. You've been doing this since the 50s. Yeah. If this is the house you want to get old and die in, though, it's not bad. Here it is, though. $2,500,000.

It's going to cost you for that kind of security. So that's a little pricey around here. How do you? I don't know. That's a lot of money. I don't understand how people manage that fucking mortgage. That's a lot of money. That's crazy.

You've got to have a bunch. That's like you have money. That's crazy. You've got to have a bunch. That's like you have to have a pretty good. You've got to have 20, right? You're not like, okay, you know what? We'll put 10% down. And you can't be doing that, right? With that kind of money, you've got to be doing like. But if you have a bunch of money and you have a $2.5 million house,

how much percentage-wise are you supposed to have wrapped up in your house to have that kind of house? Do you know what I mean? I have no idea. And is that idea and is that a good thing because it's fucking taxes and all that shit is that a good thing though because it'll appreciate with time rather than your money which cash will develop we know nothing about money because we've never had any so neither of us know shit about how to do it water all the fucking things that come along i don't know how people i don't know how people do that i don't know how people survive but what i do know is when they figure out how to pay their mortgage and they need to get out of their heads and do something, we have things to do for them. Maybe this will take their mind off their excessively high mortgage. What have they got?

We have the Fall Fun Festival. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fall in the East. Fuck. Yeah, all the festivals are in October, too. November, it's, yeah, all the festivals are, like, in October, too. November, it's all, come watch the leaves change. It's beautiful shit here.

Food here is the hot apple cider and hot chocolate, obviously. Whiskey. A bunch of food trucks, although there will be whiskey. It's Pennsylvania. Food trucks, Petrucci's ice cream with fall-inspired creations. Susie Jo donuts will be for sale. There'll be a make-your-own s'more station. What?

Gotta have that. That's impressive. That seems like open flames, probably dangerous. James, I've seen a new thing. People take croissants, cut them open, toast them, put marshmallow and chocolate in there. I do not abide that at all. Oh, God, I want it so bad. That's not a s'more, though.

No, it's not. No. That's just me being fat. Yeah, that's a different thing. A croissant's great, marshmallow's great, and chocolate's great. Actually, I'd rather have that because I don't like graham crackers, so I'd rather have that. I fucking hate graham crackers.

Right. But it's not a s'more. It's not going to taste anything like a s'more. It won't be crunchy at all. It's just going to be a fat man sandwich. It's a fat sandwich is what it is. And I want it so bad. Yeah.

It's called the fat kid special. Can I have one husky pants and two drinks, please? That's it. That's it. Farm fun is the next category. You got hay wagon rides. Okay. Okay.

No, thank you. Wow, that sounds great. All the kids sniffling and itching afterwards. A corn maze. That's nice. You get stuck in that. A lot of rats and shit pop out of that, too, so watch out in there. Every corn maze I ever hear, it's always like, oh, it's full of rats in there.

Watch out. It's all it is. Farm photo booths. why would you want a booth but you're on the farm wouldn't you want the pictures to be of the farm farm photo so is the booth does it have like corn stalks and maybe a scarecrow in there which makes no sense because you are on a fucking farm you could have you could have that at the mall you don't yeah maybe the back is just open maybe it's a big window behind you. I don't know what it is here.

There's a hill slide. That seems real technologically advanced. There's a hill. Go on, slide on it now. Okay. Do you just like sit down on a burlap sack or do you have like a- You got to bring your own hefty bag and you just go down like that on it. Bring your own potato sack.

That's how some of us used to uh sled when we were kids and didn't have sleds you get garbage bags and do it that's how that's how poor kids sled by the way well desert kids just sat on the trash can and flipped it over the ones with the wheels on the sides yeah the ones you set out yeah we'd sit on those and we'd drag them up the top of the sweetwater hill and then sit them down on their backs and then just grind a fucking hole in them. That's fucking awesome. And then put them back in somebody's house. Very hot, though.

Sounds hot. Yeah. There will be pumpkins for sale. That's helpful. A trackless train ride, which would make it probably not a train anymore, I think, at that point. I think the point of a train is it's on tracks. I think that's one of the qualities of a train. I don't have a dictionary handy, but I'm just going to go out on a limb.

Much more fun train ride, though, if you can actually make it go places. That'd be good. Apple Slingshot. That sounds fun. I'd love to shoot apples or something. Someone's losing an eye or a head or an arm or something over that. Their sight, at least. There will be fire pits and

inflatable obstacle courses. You already have the corn maze. You don't need that. There's also wheelbarrow racing, not barrow wheelbarrow barrel racing. I don't know what a wheelbarrow is if that's a different thing or if it's just a typo. Yeah. I feel like a dummy wrote this. That's

probably it. Pumpkin tic-tac-toe. You can visit the live farm animals. There they are there. Hey guys, knock knock. All of this while you listen to music from You can visit the live farm animals. There they are there. Hey, guys. Knock, knock. All of this while you listen to music from the, quote, idle woodsmen. Oh, boy. Those guys.

The Hedgehog Grill will be there. A s'mores kit sale. They'll have tavern games. Flashlight corn maze, as if it's not terrifying enough to have it. Do it in the dark? Do it in the dark. Oh, my God. And then the next day music from the

ken batista band yeah yeah that's what you got there oh and the idol woodsman will be back on sunday in case you for an encore performance crime rate there's shit while i'm running from rats in the dark the flashlight which fucking way and how do I get out of here? Help! I found more rats! Oh, God, they're chasing us. I think it's a rat king. I'm not sure. Crime rate in this town. Property crime is high.

High property crime here. Yeah, it's high by at least a third. Litter, traffic, too high. Violent crime, though. Murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime. Less than half the national average. Super safe in terms of getting out.

In terms of real shit going on. But some kids might fuck with your car or vandalism. Or leave it unlocked at night. Yeah, stuff like that. I mean, that goes on. So, anyway, that said, let's talk about some insane fucking story here. Just an insane murder. Let's do do this all right uh let's go back in time our story's going to take place in the 1970s and it's a very 70s tale like oh boy

if i told you the tale and said guess what decade it happened and you go it's the 70s right there right like late 70s yeah totally big time absolutely uh So let's talk about Susan Gallagher. We'll start with here. Now, Susan Gallagher shall later be Susan Reinhart later on when she gets married. So what she starts out as Susan Gallagher. She's born September 1st, 1942, and she's born in Ridge, not New Jersey. She's from, it's a small town in northwestern Pennsylvania. So other side of the state. Oh, over there, yeah. Completely up near, I guess, Buffalo, out that way. So her parents are William and Jane. They were a newspaper. Her dad was in the newspaper business, and her mom was a school teacher.

Okay. So she grew up in a nice, kind of studious household. Yeah. Those are people that went to college and studied and preach importance. English language means a lot to them. Exactly. Importance of education, that sort of thing. Susan here, everybody just called her Sue, but she wanted to be a teacher as well, following her mom's footsteps.

So she went to college and got a degree in english and at college she met her future husband kenneth reiner okay uh r-e-i-n-e-r-t by the way oh reinert yeah yeah you want to say reinhardt that's why i kept wanting to spell it but no it's reinert so he was enlisted at the air in the Air Force at the time as well. So they started dating as undergrads here. This is the 60s, too. So this is kind of Vietnam's heating up and all that kind of shit here. So Sue gets her bachelor's degree, and then she ends up with a master's degree in English from Penn State in 1966.

Awesome. And Jerry Sandusky did not touch her. So she made out terrific, screaming out of there, just doing a good job here. Susan and Kenneth would get married. Sue and Ken in 1965. So this is right after she graduated college and before she

got her master's. So they started moving after school ended. They were moving all around because he is in the air force so he's getting shifted here and sent there they went to ended up first in sacramento california so as far away as you could be then they ended up living in rome new york which we know all about that yeah we know why it's rome and their statues even though that was georgia but they ended up in rome new york for a while then they ended up up in Puerto Rico for a while, too.

Oh, left the continental. So all over this time, yeah, during these times, they're bouncing all around, and they're having kids as well. So, yeah, they ended up coming back to the Philadelphia region and settling as a family again in 1971. But she stayed home for a while. She taught English at college in Puerto Rico. And then once the kids started being born,

she came back to the state, to, you know, the Northeast, and stayed home, basically, here. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that

if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime,

part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the wayback machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So they have one kid in 1968, a daughter named Karen. And in 1969, a son named Michael comes along. Okay.

So that's what they have here. So nice little family forming out of these two. And Kenan's going to end up leaving the Air Force here after a while. Here in 1971, he's going to be up leaving the air force here uh after a while here 1971 he's going to be done with the air force okay and they're going to kind of settle down sort of here in pennsylvania in pennsylvania yeah they're going to settle in pennsylvania now listen to how they just there's an article the philadelphia inquirer article it's pretty old article but they the way they describe people is wild the way people used to be described what do you mean like if it's in physical terms it's just so blunt and funny it's like a description for a casting call that you'd send out like you know what i mean it's

very blunt look this is what we need we need three fat guys one bald two with hairy backs get your ass that's what we're looking for and a homely woman and a homely woman with a you know who's at least three bills we need one of those like that's that's how it is it says quote susan reiner was not an ugly woman okay now if the description of you physically is not an ugly person right away that means that's not a complimentary no it's not it's person right away that means that's not a complimentary no it's not it's not at all that means you know i mean they're not hot but you know that's what they're saying here uh quote matronly and demure with dark rimmed glasses

and a sometimes squeaky voice she was a devoted parent who took her kids to little league games swimming gymnastics and art lessons. That's how she's described in this article here. I've banged worse. That's what they said. Yeah. I mean, I've had worse. Don't get me wrong.

Don't get me wrong. Closing time's coming. Lights are starting to come up. You go, hey, you know, you grab what you can get. But, you know, she ain't bad. Not that I got it on my damn self, but look, here she is. That's what I mean. It's silly, too.

The way they describe her is like the secretary in Ghostbusters, like the original Ghostbusters. That's the way they're describing her. What was her name? I can't fucking remember now. Janine? Janine! Yes, Janine. Good job.

Nailed it. Potts? I think you're right. I think it's Potts. I think you're right. Miss Potts. Is that Miss Potts? I think that's... Was it Janine Potts, or is her real right. Miss Potts. Is that Miss Potts? I think that's.

Was it Janine Potts or is her real last name is Potts? Oh, you know what? Now I'm. I think her real last name is Potts. I think you might be. I don't know. Or Janine. I'm not sure.

It might be Janine Potts. That might be her real name. I don't know. Here's what I'll tell you. She's she's hot. I like her a lot. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. lot yeah well yeah yeah yeah all those roles they take and make some very attractive women like we'll put some glasses on her right now she's gross oh now i want to fuck her more yeah can't so i mean that's glasses aren't that could be that's sexy too what are you talking about gonna make that and be like, oh, now she's ugly now. Oh, okay. So stupid. What are you talking about?

Now she's a dork. Okay, sure. Oh, sure. This isn't the fucking sixth grade. Right. We're talking about, you know, hard dicks here. We're talking about genitals, you motherfucker. We're talking about hard dicks.

We're talking about, we both went exactly to that, which is hilarious. Annie Potts, nailed it. Annie. Thank you. Bingo. All right, there we go so ken leaves the military in 1971 susan decides to return to work and she ends up being offered a teaching position at upper marion it's in upper marion is at the school here so she's a good

teacher she starts in 71 and continues there the The faculty likes her. The students like her. She's into filmmaking, which is cool at the time. This is 1971. She's into filmmaking. So that's cool. That's really early. And, yeah, if a student was interested in, like, audiovisual shit or anything, she'd be the teacher you go talk to.

Like, go talk to Mrs. Reiner. She'll straighten you out and help you out. She's an English teacher. It's Upper Merion High School, and she's doing great here. So enter one of her fellow teachers here, all right? William Sidney Bradfield Jr. Yeah. Okay, this guy, Bill, as he's going to go by everybody here.

Now, Bill, Bill's born 1933, so he's about nine years older than Sue here. His parents are obviously Bradfield Senior, and his mom's name is Nora. His father's a mid-level business executive, and they would go from Colorado to the Philadelphia area for business. His father moved there. And that's where Bill grows up. In 1955, he graduated from college with a degree in philosophy. Wow. Interesting.

That ends up, where do you end up doing? Teaching high school, I think, with that. It's an argumentative motherfucker. That's what that is. Yes. Philosophy is, if you could do that your whole time in college and not go, what the fuck am I doing with my life? At some point, you have a lot of patience. Why am I doing this? This isn't going to get me anywhere like this is you go for philosophy.

If your family has like, you know, 700 million dollars for you and a trust fund and everything. And you're like, I'm just trying to figure out the world and the butterflies and my own existence and what the yes then you go for philosophy but if you're like come from a middle class background and you're gonna have a mortgage someday fucking that's not very useful no at that point not very useful so he goes there he goes to postgraduate schools a bunch of different ones for some reason. I don't know why he bounced around so much, but he went to Villanova, St. John's, Westchester State College. He ends up with a master's degree in English, though, in 1964 and started working the next year at Upper Marion High School. So he's been there a while.

there a while he's already had by the time he meets uh beats sue when she pops in here he's already had two failed marriages bill and they both he has three sons out of those two failed marriages he has told everybody that he is not getting serious with any one woman anymore no more marriages none of that shit i'm not cut out for it apparently failed twice imagine it philosophically let me let's talk about yes i was banging that chick in the motel room but philosophically let's talk about why maybe you know what i mean let's talk about what in the universe brought me to that what is sex what is it should be like let's talk philosophically about how all of your luggage is in the front yard how about that let me talk about how let's not pack shit is out there fuck out have a good one peace what is fire it's hot go find your shit it's hot and it's all over your

clothes get out in the front yard sit all over all your work clothes. Enjoy. What an asshole. It's all over your silk ties, motherfucker. Gone. Over there by the elm tree in the front yard. So he tells everybody, including the teachers, that like, he's done, man. I'm done with all this shit. Instead, it's weird what he does, though. He just has, not like he has like one night stands or he's like hey listen sweetheart this is getting a little too serious for me you know we've been seeing each other a month and that's a little

too much i'm backing out he just has several long-term relationships with several different women at the same time rather than yeah i'm not a it's not long-term relationships he's so much he's so much not in favor of it's just having one with one person that seems to be the drag for him so he just carries on several without their knowledge you know what i mean just does it that way much easier that way i feel like he may have been the problem in those marriages no you don't know jimmy judgmental no yeah no? Yeah, he feels very Jerry Westman is what he feels. Yeah, well, not in LA. No, he's looking to marry.

He'd have married all of them. That's the difference. He'd have married every one of those women. That's the whole thing. Unbelievable. I want that reality show, Jimmy. I want it so bad. We need to make it happen.

It would be so fun. All of them in a big house. I want it so bad. We need to make it happen. It would be so fun. All of them in a big house. I want it more than anything. It's the best. So that's what they're doing. He's having all these long-term relationships. A former co-worker of his, this is fucking funny, talked about how she taught alongside him before, quote,

growing close to him. She said she'd been charmed by Bradfield into having an affair, even though she was married and all this type of shit. That's the other thing, too. He likes having affairs with married women because they're not going to want to marry him. They're already fucking married. That's the other thing. It's like he could walk away from that and there's not a goddamn word they're going to say about it.

So there are even more arms length away from him she said quote he was one of the brightest people i ever met i now think there's something perverse about him in terms of wanting to attract women who were vulnerable and innocent he was involved with three or four other women at the same time he was seeing me but he presented them as inconsequential like yeah no i'm banging those chicks but don't worry about them we're at dinner now now we're at the outback now let's make the most of it sweetheart yeah wow apparently he's a very smart guy and that's the problem is he's smart and he thinks he's even smarter than he is because he thinks he can puppet master everybody and just keep him on strings here he's doing it so he's yeah whether he thinks it or not he's validating himself by actually doing it absolutely i say he's charming he's got a very good conversational

he's a good bullshitter he's all that stuff that's what he is he's full of shit he's a exactly he's a philosophy major if we were at a college back then he'd be sitting under a tree playing a fucking acoustic guitar is what he'd be doing talking about you know this this is a song about nichi and you'd be like i am gonna fucking murder you where's john belushi when we need it i'm gonna beat you to death with that guitar. Yes, exactly. Oh, yeah, that's what he did, right? He just broke the guitar in the hallway. He bashed it against the wall. But I want a mix between him and honky-tonk man Jeff Jarrett, you know, guitar-smashing wrestlers at the same time.

Bashing heads in the courtyard. Work him over. Yeah. He was described as having a hypnotic effect on women. Wow. And he was a teacher at a school. Is he a hot guy? Not really, I don't think.

And they described him as a, quote, Svengali type. So, yeah, it seems to be, you know. None of these cult leaders are ever hot guys. No, it's charm. How do they do it? Because women are forgiving. That's why. Yeah, they are.

You make them laugh, they'll fuck you.'s pretty weird you know what i mean like you you can get in personality wise whereas guys we're just as easy it's just like the old eddie murphy joke about cater to his ego that's all it takes for us and we're like oh oh oh fucker sure why not like we're nobody has a basement we all just pretend we do you know so he's described later on here. One of his friends said, quote, he was an articulate, seemingly scholarly person.

Sue appreciated, highly educated, cultured, well-spoken people like her family. And he was more like that than anyone she ever knew. She believed he had a value system similar to her own, an interest in knowledge, teaching beauty, all that stuff. A predator. Yes, exactly. Full of shit is what it is.

Looking to get what he wants, and that is clearly sex. Totally here. totally here now according to all of sue's friends here she became involved with bill pretty quickly um within a couple years of her being on starting the job while she's still married to ken the whole deal he is known as ruggedly handsome let's let's take a listen to how they describe him okay quote he was a ruggedly handsome muscular man with intense blue eyes who sported a full mustache and beard bradfield was considered one of the most inspiring teachers at the school this person's taken by him too i was gonna say they didn't say he's not ugly no like they were they're into this guy they're like cock cock like a fire hose, like a veiny fire hose, this thing.

Full mustache and beard. Isn't that a beard? In the early 70s. Yeah, otherwise. Who has a beard with no mustache? Amish people who live an hour away. So that's actually an important distinction. You got to say that.

You got to say that. Like he's not Hezekiah from the farm here. He's got the mustache too. His is a 70s mustache. that yeah you gotta say that like he's not hezekiah from the farm here he's fucking he's got the mustache too his is a 70s mustache yeah he's got pussy juice in it you know what i mean that's the difference just the mustache shine it's dried in it yeah that's that's the difference you know so they said that he taught his subjects with enthusiasm he was very enthusiastic starts out as an english teacher and all that sort of shit and then he added latin classes and shit like that that he was teaching and he would eventually be elected president of the upper marion teachers union

wow charisma guys got charisma you know if he was if he grew up like a senator's kid, he might be president. You know, right. That's the type of guy. So he's he enjoys. Everybody says he's very affectionate physically. He's hugged people and all that stuff, which I hate from a teacher. Don't touch. Stop hugging people. I don't need the teacher to be a hugger. Stop hugging those kids.

I'm sorry. There's a there's a teacher, a gym teacher who ended up being fired and possibly brought up on charges when I was a kid who used to who used to touch kids all the time. He got fired for giving, quote, birthday spankings. I think we talked about this before in gym class. He'd play. Yeah, that was very nice. And one for good luck. Nothing like a summer birthday. Yeah. and this is the fucking 80s this

wasn't the 40s or something this was the 80s man like when i was little in elementary school when this was going on so wow it was it was weird so he though he likes all that he talks about people too he'll tell all his friends about all the chicks he's banging and everything like that good lord oh yeah yeah he's he's real into it but he also the thing that he tells his friends why he's so successful with the women why do women all fuck me because i give them the impression that sex isn't all i'm interested in that's why i make them exactly what he's doing yes he knows what to do to get laid is what he's doing. Here's another teacher named Sue Myers, another Sue here. She taught English as well.

She lived with him, by the way. She is his roommate slash concubine sort of girlfriend. She thinks they're together, but they're not, and he bangs other people. I give him the idea that sex isn't all I'm interested in. Yeah, that's how it works. And she said, quote, I never felt he was out for a sexual fix. Well, you're you're guess what, honey? You couldn't be more wrong. And the gag is he is.

He is. The only reason I have sex with five women at the same time is for a sexual fix. Otherwise, you just find the one you like the best and hang out with them. That would be the emotional connection. That's called a relationship. It's a weird thing that some people have been trying out lately. It's strange. So he seemed, she said, he seemed interested in women as people, in their ideas, in their values, in their beliefs.

Yes, because you have to talk to them about something before you have sex. And the thing that will make you most likely to talk to them to have sex with you is if you talk about them and all the things they might like and all the things that you're interested in. What else are you going to talk about? You know, in sales, they tell you to create a need and then fulfill that need yeah that's what he's doing he's doing that yeah he uh he also tended to go after women who were considered not very attractive and i think that's an interesting psychological feature because he likes to be worshipped he likes to be the he likes the women to look at him with google eyes like oh i never thought i'd fuck a handsome guy like this.

I never thought a handsome guy like this would want to fuck me. He likes that. Also, it's very easy to say the things that they want to hear because not a lot of people have said to him before. And as a philosophy major and an English major, the man knows words that most guys don't. He got words. He got all them 10 cent words there he described my pussy ways i never heard i never heard it described like that before i'm telling you i mean usually they just say you know wet and stanky but he said other things that are much much more complimentary

so yeah she said quote uh one of his friends said, quote, Bill Bradford could smell insecurity and loneliness the way a pig smells truffles. Jesus. There you go. That's the psychology of this man right here. Who the hell said that? They didn't want to be quoted, but somebody, one of his friends said that, by the way. So this is what we're talking about. You know the guy.

You see the guy he's handsome he's predatory he likes the women to worship him plus the women who think that he's more attractive than them right might be more likely to look the other way and not quite call him on fucking other people as well yeah and they might be incredibly flattered that a man yeah it looks better than that's what than them. That's what it is. Yeah. That's what I mean. You get a hot chick.

She's not taking anything from you because she's got a line of people who want to bang her, too. So she's like, what are you doing, asshole? Fuck you. Why are you being such a jerk to me? I'll leave. That's it. So the affair begins here with Susan. Sue, Reinhardt, and Bill begin an affair.

And she liked him pretty quickly there. And it's a very secret affair. Had to be kept secret because, A, she's married, and, B, he's got, like, four other girlfriends, including his live-in girlfriend who also teaches English right alongside Sue. And, C, we all work together. Yeah, that's the other problem. All of them. They teach. Well, yeah, because she teaches english with right right the sues are next to each other same goddamn department the same teacher's lounge yeah they're smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee in the same room

they already got a glimpse into the teacher's lunch what are they doing what the fuck wow they look really sad in there what's happening fox smokes that looks great in there so that's what they're doing here and you know it's so it's also a secret because he bill didn't want to he said that he thought maybe they'd lose their jobs if the school knew that the two teachers were living together out of wedlock is what he told that's what he told sue myers who he's living with so he's got he's like this has to be a big secret don't tell anyone because of school then he's banging her going well you can't tell anybody because i'm also it's ridiculous now bill he denies he denies a romance obviously anybody with any with sue reiner no he says quote i was never in love with Susan Reiner, he says.

That's what he said. He said, quote, I never intended to marry her, and I was never her lover. I wanted to be her friend and help her. And they said, so you didn't have an affair with her? And he said, no, she's much too mousy and pitiful of a woman to be attractive to me. No. Which means you fucked her bro i've never i've never known we've known a lot of guys and i've never known a guy when they say when you go

are you banging that chick when they go no she's fucking ugly that means she he fucked her that's period when the reason he's not fucking is because she's not hot enough for me. Bullshit. On period. Period. Just from knowing. And that's just knowing men. If you know men, if you're a guy sitting out there right now, you're nodding your head going, yep, that's exactly. If it's straight on her appearance, we know you fucked her.

And you just don't want us to know. She's way too mousy and pitiful for me to fuck yeah okay what is pitiful she's too pitiful she's not pitiful she's a pitiful looking she's not ugly either that's i mean she's not an ugly woman she's a woman with like a master's degree an intelligent person who has a job and all like there's nothing pitiful about his fuck that's i mean so he's the you know that's not true when a guy says that basically so just from experience with men being having penises being a guy having penises for over 80 combined years between us we've talked to a lot of guys who fucked a lot of girls who they weren't proud of quote unquote and that's what they say when they're trying to deny it so and we know it happened that's right when their bar is so much higher than what they're used to getting yeah

that's exactly jesus man so 1974 sue and ken here susan reiner and ken i'll call her sue i'll call her susan susan reiner and i'll call the girl sue myers i'll call her I'll call her Susan, Susan Reiner, and I'll call Sue Myers. I'll call Sue. OK, just so we're not confused. I don't have to use names. So Susan and Ken decide to separate in 1974. Oh, they decide to separate for a while. See how it works out.

They never end up getting back together. It's a permanent separation. Their divorce is finalized two years later in 76. But it's an amicable split. Everybody's Ken's not met. Ken seems like a real normal guy, by the way. Real nice guy. He's not mad at her.

She's they're just saying that didn't work out. That's that's tough. Nobody owed career military man. Yeah. And they're not fighting over alimony and child support. And they're not doing any of that. They're just it's an amicable split. Their kids go back and forth, you know, visitation.

And you go for the weekend with your dad and all that kind of thing. She also stays very close to his family as well. Because, I mean, they've known each other since they were kids. Yeah, it's amicable. So who cares? It's fine. Exactly. So she still calls her ex-mother-in-law and talks on the phone with her for a while about whatever.

And they're just friends. So she's very well liked, by the way. Everybody likes Susan. That's the way it is. Her staff's very well-liked, by the way. Everybody likes Susan. That's the way it is. Her staff members, the kids really like her, the students. She is, they often tease her. She's got a squeaky voice, everybody says. Everybody says squeaky voice.

I like that. Yeah, and they say it has a tendency to crack when she'd get, like, flustered or excited. They would, like, crack. i love it yeah so they would make fun of her and they said that she would laugh along with it she thought it was funny too so she was cool you know she wasn't like you guys are assholes and i'll be in the teacher's lounge doing a fucking line off the desk none of that shit yeah so it became part of what the kids talked about too yeah the squeaky voice lady-voiced lady, she's cool.

You know, shit like that. People liked her. She gets along well. Neighbors recall her being, they said she kind of kept to herself. They said she was a, one described her as a, quote, quiet, passive-type person. You know what I mean? We've got a real picture of that asshole, of Bill.

We've got a real picture of that asshole of bill we got a real picture of her too with a opposite to track the glasses the back then the thick rimmed glasses and the mousy quote mousy described by people and quiet passive i think it's brought up a lot yeah high voice they said she likes reading and going to plays and watching movies and stuff she's into that she was also active in parents without partners which a group, and was always chauffeuring her kids back and forth from gymnastics to baseball games to this to that. Nightmare. Just like Sue. One of the parents without partners was, I guess it was for divorced or single parents. And she would become a big part of the chapter here. And she would train people throughout Pennsylvania and had to moderate group meetings. Wow. And she would go to events all over the state to set stuff up and show people what to do.

Very mature. Yeah. A member of Parents Without Partners described her as, quote, somewhat avant garde, but very reserved. She was a very petite private person. Somewhat avant garde. I think she's just into artsy

stuff is what they're thinking about. If you go to western Pennsylvania to talk about the farmlands and you're talking about poetry, they think that's avant garde. You know what I mean? I feel like that's probably what it is and and being a single parent yeah exactly i think it's that sort of thing so enter another school person here he's the principal let's find out who's who's running this whole fucking who's running this nude beach yeah who we got here it's j jay jc smith can't get more of a jay smith yeah sounds like an alias for christ's sake doesn't it fuck he's born in 1928

so he's a little bit older than the rest of the crew, but he's all involved in this whole shit, too. So he had very kind of normal upbringing and everything like that. But he's known as a man of, quote, this is funny. They describe him as, quote, a man of many quirks. Uh-oh. Okay. Always wore black suits all the time. So, I mean, that's fine.

Johnny Cash. Richard Lewis did that. I mean, there's plenty of, you know. Kenny Powers is a big fan of it. Yeah. Always wearing the black suits. Got to express your rage. Yeah. Express it. Look at this. Look at how I'm feeling right now. I wonder if his ties were black, too, like Reservoir Dog style or like an Asian businessman. Like one of the two. I'm not sure sure they said that they were often ill-fitting suits like he'd come in with like a sport coat that was two sizes too big and like pants that

were small and they were like what the fuck is why do you dress like that and the secretary asked him and he said believe it or not I buy all my suits at the Salvation Army I was just gonna say it sounds to me like a man who doesn't get him fitted he just buys whatever he finds shit not even off the rack he doesn't just go to like fucking macy's or something or you know men's warehouse he goes to the salvation army and they go behind the canteens we have suits he's like okay cool the surplus army boots over there yeah where's your haberdashery? Oh, it's behind. This is a man who doesn't even know his own size. He just buys something that he likes the color of.

Black. Picks it up and goes, that's about a human size, right? And puts it on and it's four bucks. Sounds good. Black, I'll take it. It's black. Real weird. He's a tall guy.

He's described as, quote, a tall man with thinning hair and hooded eyes what does that mean not quite as handsome as the other guy who was rugged and the other guy was fucking grizzly adams they described he's like this guy's just this guy with the baggy eyelids they're discovering theyoda, they're describing now. They just described Abe Vigoda. Younger people, look up Abe Vigoda. And it's a tall man with thinning hair

and hooded eyes. You go, oh yeah, that's exactly what he described. Younger people, it was the man with dementia in Good Burger. There you go.

And also the man with dementia in Look Who's Talking. Yeah. And by the way, I'm talking, some of our listeners are going to go, Good Burger?

What the fuck is that? Because they're younger than that. So Good Burger? What the fuck is that? Because they're younger than that. So Good Burger is too young of a fucker. I don't even know. They don't have tall men with thinning hair and hooded eyes in movies anymore. There's no references to give you past the year 2000. I'm sorry.

Abe Vigoda. Look him up. And Abe Vigoda doesn't even sound like a name that's literally two words you guys it's like if you stub your toe you go abe pagoda god damn it that hurts abe pagoda i swear to ab, I'm going to beat your ass. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee

Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one

and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen

alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So he was in the Army Reserves.

He was a colonel in the Army Reserves, which is high. Colonel's high. Next is general in terms of that. Yeah, it's colonel's high next is general in terms of that yeah it's colonel then general and he was uh he was wanting to make general always but never did he also he had a phd in education from temple university which is in philly there so he um he's an interesting guy too students and teachers they say he's got a real interesting sense of humor. Everything's joking all the time, which is fine.

But sometimes in a school, it's not that appropriate because the kids don't get your jokes. And then it just sounds like you're a weirdo. And the school is dead serious. We're learning here. Yeah, they said, too, he got rid of a lot of rules for the kids and the teachers. And discipline became a problem after he was like throughout the course of the 70s like the school kind of got a little bit of kind of fell apart a little bit around here yeah no more suspension you know what if you guys your kids you want to fight in this school you go out front and you do it like men you put your fists up i'll i'll referee

the thing but just it's fine they said he he would do like the, you know, the announcements in the beginning of the day over the PA system there. And he would joke and do like all these joke monologues kind of. He would do one where he said, here's one that he actually did. Quote, this is your principal speaking. He said, there's a new regulation for gym clothes. You may wear yellow bottoms and blue tops or you may wear blue bottoms and yellow tops. I trust that this will please authoritarians in the faculty and not displease the libertarians. But I have one caveat.

In the winter, it shall be the duty of each and every student to be encased in warm underwear. That's a joke? That's just, yeah, that's the way he would talk and, like, say shit. That's his joke. Encased in warm underwear that's a joke that's just yeah that's the way he would talk and then like say shit that's his joke encased in warm underwear don't talk about the kids underwear please yeah never never mention this don't bring it up don't even leave it alone to wear it don't tell him not to wear it just leave it alone don't talk about yeah yeah don't go you got underwear on because that's weird too keep it outside the pants when you're talking to children, please. In all discussions.

I don't care what's going on in their pants. That's not my business. So now Jay's home life. Let's talk about Jay Smith's home life because it is fucking fun here. He's got a wife here. Stefanina is her name. Really? Yeah.

Stefanina, apparently. Never heard that one ever. I don't know that one either. I would just call it Steph, I guess we'll go with here. Yeah. So Steph worked in the dry cleaners and let's describe her. Quote, worked in a dry cleaners and was given to white boots, form fitting clothes and teased hair. She had a shapely figure and a wrinkled hook-nosed

face she called everyone hun and had a folksy manner that contrasted sharply even humorously with her husband's sophisticated aura what does that mean they just described the truck stock waitress is what they just described not gonna get you huh yeah but she'll bang you yeah i fun i mean shapely and fucking you know white boots and fitting clothes and teased hair 70s yeah you know they what they described as a 70s butterface i guess yeah definitely wrinkly hook nose that's yeah wrinkly hook nosed face they have an oldest daughter named daughter named Stephanie here who was grown up and married. She's also a heroin addict and so is her husband. That's not great.

Obviously, Jay and Stephanina are a little upset about this whole deal here. Now, in the mid 1970s, Stephanina gets diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer. Fuck. stephanina gets diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer fuck she'll end up dying of cancer later on in august of 1979 which is very interesting timing for our story was keep that date in mind fast oh absolutely it's the 70s too so they didn't treatments weren't quite the same as they have now dry cleaning chemical got her or something who the fuck that's what i mean back then those chemicals could have been horrible for you i'm sure they weren't good so she began keeping a diary during this time because she's in and out of hospitals and she's kind of bored otherwise so she keeps a diary

and in it she'd make note of jay's strange behavior which she said really started to get fucking weird during this time he began to to, according to her, participate in group sex and swinging groups, which she wasn't into. Wasn't into it. Okay. But he's into it. Oh, I'm sure he's very into it. Yeah, I was going to say.

Which, if you want to swing and your wife doesn't, that means you're either getting a divorce, hiding a lot of shit, or putting that in the back of your mind because you can't really do that. wife doesn't that means you're either getting a divorce hiding a lot of shit or you know putting that in the back of your mind because you can't really do that she said she wasn't into it and she said that this seemed to immediately escalate into more crazy behavior as soon as he got cancer as soon as yeah as soon as she got he was always weird and like into weird shit but this was like oh now that she's in and out of hospitals and not like home every night and all that now he's really out there swinging he doesn't now that she's not feeling so hot yeah i mean jesus christ her hook nosed ass over here so in september of 77

their stephanie and her husband eddie here they're the hunsbergers are their names, Stephanie and Eddie Hunsberger. They had moved to the Philadelphia area. They decided to return home to live with Jay and his wife here, Stephanie. Okay. Yeah. They moved in to their house in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania that fall in 77. And this is right in the middle of cancer and all this type of thing. So obviously tensions are high. Two heroin addicts, two junkies are going to move in while mom of cancer and all this type of thing. So obviously tensions are high. Two heroin addicts, two junkies are going to move in while mom has cancer.

This is great. This is going to go over very well. Edward and Eddie here and Stephanie, the son and son-in-law, they both had, like I said, a pretty crippling heroin addiction and obviously they didn't have steady jobs, because it's hard when you're a junkie to have a steady job. Stephanie is known by law enforcement in Philly to be in the sex work trade.

Oh, boy. Here to be working the streets. And Eddie is on active probation for an armed robbery he had carried out two years earlier. Great guy. So obviously they're just a fucking mess and they're moving back in because they have nowhere else to go. Right. It's not to help take care of Ma.

No. It's because, sorry Ma, we got nowhere else to go. It's just end of the road. Yeah, absolutely. So 1978, they've lived there a few months. And they suddenly, out of nowhere, just disappeared, Stephanie and Eddie. They cut off contact with everybody they knew, no warning, no nothing. They leave all of their belongings behind, all of their stuff, including clothing, luggage, toothbrushes, toiletries, everything, and poof, into thin air.

They're gone one night. Well, sometimes you can't tell people when you're going to rehab because they may, you know what I mean? Yeah. We had our own intervention. We're going to go get clean. We'll find out. Let's find out where they are. So more into Jay's escalating weird shit here.

Okay. Some of the deals, the stuff with his marriage is all his sexual shit. That's the problem. He would subscribe to Swinger magazines, both straight and gay Swinger magazines, too. So his wife is like, what's going on here? Right. Who aren't you fucking? Never mind.

Who are you? Who's excluded from this large circle here? Yeah. A lot of rumors about him banging all sorts of people. But he would only admit to his wife to one extramarital affair even though there was plenty here and that was with the married female principal of an elementary school whom in letters to her that his wife found he addressed woman hey love woman oh god jesus christ so man who's who's learning that's a pretty whack-ass nickname love woman that is very 70s temptress you know i mean you're a love woman and i'm

fucking you know it's ridiculous so she leaves his wife leaves him for a little while but then comes back here she's got cancer she comes back it's easier so smith also has at least that we know of at the very least an interest in bestiality so there's that also he had many pornographic books on the subject of bestiality books books and magazines of people fucking animals oh my god and he said at one point someone on the upper merion staff complained about him and the way the school was being run and he said quote you don't need this job anyway you live on a farm don't you you should raise dogs men can never sexually satisfy men can never sexually satisfy a woman if animals can help the blind they can be surrogate sex

partners what the fuck he told a subordinate at work that you get like a i don't know how fast you get sued you'd get fired in the school district would owe this woman two million dollars if you said that now but you ever heard of a seeing eye dog i'd really like to get a sucking dick oh my god you should get a lick and twat dog they're real nice oh my god that he said that at work they can help the blind they can help us with other things, too. Like fucking you. What do you need this job for? You don't need money. Just go home and be fucked by dogs all the time.

That's what he said. That doesn't require money. Wow. What the fuck is happening? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. The principal said that. The principal of the school said that.

Holy shit. this is the guy he also hates kids by the way oh perfect not a fan which is a great quality for a teacher maybe that's what i mean that's the only reason why at least he's probably not having sex with them is because he doesn't like them he doesn't want to be around them so he's not attracted to them he's attracted everything else yes anything anything else on two or four legs. So he said that he got mad because sometimes when Susan Reinhardt was teaching a late class, she would leave Karen and Michael, the kids, her kids, in the principal's office until she got done. Smith did not like this at all.

Jay Smith. Pissed off. How dare you have children in a school, number i can't tug these mags it's jesus christ he told his secretary quote i don't like teachers bringing their damn kids around school we're not here to babysit maybe the most ironic thing that's ever been said by a human being ever. I don't know what you're talking about. What is this, a big building where people bring kids and drop them off and then go do things? This is crazy. Is that what's going on here?

Next thing you know, they're going to want us to give them books and stuff and tell them things. This is insane. You're literally getting checks to hang on to kids all day. Keep them there. Wow. Jesus Christ. And apparently these kids are known as well-behaved, unusually well-behaved, polite, mature kids. Military children kids.

Military children and school teacher children. They're real good. The secretary said, you'd have to like those kids. Not them, they're so well-behaved. They're not running around tearing shit up, screaming. And he said, quote, I don't like any kids. Perfect. Thank God you're here.

Wow. What a fucking, what's happening in this whole entire situation here? This is very strange what a weird career choice anyway so yeah susan and ken march 76 they get divorced and uh august 27th 1977 okay it's a saturday there is a sears store in saint david's, Pennsylvania. Now, again, younger people, Sears used to be a store. You know how in the rundown mall there's that, on the end, there's that

Sears appliance thing that you see in your shitty town? That used to be a whole store with everything. I mean everything. You know that place where only your grandparents go to get their tires rotated? Yeah, you're like, where are we?

You used to buy jeans there. Defunct Walmart. It used to be good. Now, this store used to be a big department store, and the cashier at the Ticketron counter, again. The what? Ticketron. Pre-Ticketmaster Ticketron. Oh, yeah. This is where you used to have to go. Again, the what? Ticketron. Pre-Ticketmaster Ticketron.

Oh, yeah. This is where you used to have to go. If you wanted tickets to something, you couldn't just get on your phone and get it. And then they're like, oh, my God, they're digitally delivering it to me. Okay, Apple Wallet, done. No. You had to physically. You had to stand in a motherfucking line. Not even go to a store that was just that.

You had to walk through the clothing department and the tools and the sporting goods and all that shit to get to one desk in the back right before the bathrooms and the drinking fountain to go can i have tickets to jethro tull that's what you had to do back then and they physically put them up and hand them to you you had to walk past the craftsman display to say i'd like two tickets to black sabbath please right now it's fucking crazy yeah so yes uh now that's how it went now a courier would show up at the end of the day to collect the money yeah and drop it at the bank it's a brink situation where a guy walks in picks up the receipts and everything and does the deposit you know small business you do that yourself right i remember my grandfather was barbershop every day he'd have the zipper up the receipts and everything and does the deposit. Small business, you do that yourself.

I remember my grandfather was a barber shop every day. He'd have the zipper fucking bag, the zip bag with the lock on it. Yeah, he'd take that to the bank. Or to, not the bank, to the wall in his fucking bedroom. To the drywall. Yeah, not the bank. Are we kidding? So she said, quote, there was a large deposit slip for a large amount in checks, and there was another for $34,073 in cash.

Okay. Crushing Ticketron is. This young woman who, behind the counter, brought the bags as well as the Brinks log book for the courier to sign. The courier signed the name Carl S. Williams, received the bag of checks and money. the bag of checks and money five minutes later she's with a customer and a brinks courier walks up and said i'm here for the day's deposits it's the real reno 911 situation oh damn it he raped his little sister to death jim so he said she said but you were already here. And he said, no, not at all. And she said that it started to dawn on her of what happened here. So on another Saturday in a different Sears store, one at the Nashamini, I'm sure that's not Nashamini.

I'm sure that's not how it's said, mall, near, Jesus, Ben Salem. Another thing happened. This iscember 17th 1977 a clerk turned a courier's id card over to the assistant head cashier and he took the id card to the office to compare it to a list of couriers and the name on the card checked out because that's what they had to do now it checked out albert j wharton. Then she compared the signature on the card to that of Wharton's signature that he signed to take the thing and they were completely different.

Oh. So she went to this guy, the uniformed courier, and said, did you bring our money? We ordered coins and $1 bills to carry us over for a few days. Yeah. And he said, we had very heavy demand today had to put it on another truck okay so they're like oh okay which never happens if

you ask them to bring me coins they're not gonna go sorry brinks is out of coins right now we're out of money it's not how that works so she didn't want him to know anything was awry here so she said yeah just a few minutes she said and went back to her office and then she made us an address over the public address system in sears and it was in a code that she hoped this guy wouldn't understand she said 800 800 call for operator 39 is what she said and this guy for for some reason, he freaked out at that, and he started walking toward her office. And somebody else said, you can't go in there.

And he knocked a clerk down and burst into the office and said, I want my card. He screamed it. And the person in there, then he said, I don't have to take this type of treatment. I'll just go back downstairs and send somebody else up, but I want my card. And he grabbed the card out of somebody's hand and took off down the store escalator and fled and was gone. Okay.

Now, February of 1978 here, we'll talk a little bit more about Stephanie and Eddie, Jay's kids, okay? They had went to the home of Eddie's parents, pete and dorothy and it was eddie's would visit his parents all the time but several weeks later they hadn't heard anything from him so they contacted smith here who said jay and jay said yeah no i saw him recently it's all good they're fine he said yeah they were they said they were going to go out to California because Pennsylvania had a warrant out for Eddie's arrest. So they said they were taken off to California. So Eddie's mom checked with the cops and there was no warrant out for Eddie's arrest, which is shocking, frankly, honestly, for everyone's surprise. Really? Wow.

She later was talking to Stefanina, this is Eddie's mom, talked to Jay's wife, and said, oh my God, I hope Jay didn't do them in. That's what Stefanina said. Yeah. And Dorothy, the mom, was like, what? What are you talking about? But she figured she's on painkillers and medication. She's got cancer. Maybe she's just, she could be delirious. That's what she literally thought.

You told me that he fucks golden retrievers too. So I don't know. Well, he'd love to. We don't know if he does or not, but he definitely is, thinks it's a good idea to. Yeah. So there was, Jay ends up leaving the institution here, leaving Upper Marion for a different job, for a district job. Okay.

Great. He goes there. Then he ends up being kind of shit-canned from that as well. Yeah. And we'll talk about why. It was August 19th, 1978. They're in Tredy Frinn Township. It's called the Gateway Shopping Center.

There's a couple out there, a young couple eating some pizza. They're sitting on a curb when they notice a brown Ford Granada stopping next to a Chevrolet van. A tall guy with hooded eyes got out of the Ford and looked through the window of the van. The young man and young woman were just looking at each other like, what's this guy doing here? So for some reason, they went to a pay phone and called the police.

That is way too – I get that this is probably a good thing, but that's way too nosy. If you're sitting there and you see a guy looking in a car and you're calling the cops, you have got to mind your own fucking business. That's early in the crime. If a crime is even going to occur you you've seen nothing that that equates to a crime yet well yeah once he busts the window or something then then call the cops but otherwise maybe it's his wife's van right the keys inside and he's looking to make sure the keys are in there before he starts looking for a rock maybe he's interested in buying it and he just wants to see if it's a four-speed or an automatic that's the other thing maybe the van's for sale and

someone told him it'll be in this parking lot go look at it you know i don't fucking know what the hell's going on drive gotta see you know why you don't know that why it's not your fucking business eat your pizza and shut the fuck up the guy ask you what's on that then shut up and shut up your answer is pepperoni or nothing so within a few minutes of this, two police officers show up. It's a sergeant and a lieutenant. And they spot the described vehicle there. And they describe the car. They see the car driving.

And they said the driver was steering recklessly, so they pulled him over. And they were on the way there. They said, can I see your driver's license? And the guy said, it's in the car. So he pulled him over here and he got pulled over and got out of the car is what happened in the parking lot. He said, it's in the car. Now, at that point, the lieutenant sees a gun. Oh.

And he says, drop it. Seeing the Ruger in his hand, it now so the car he then says oh my goodness and drops the gun the perpetrator here they said the lieutenant said it was especially scary because he said quote i couldn't even fire after the first command i was carrying a hot load in my gun what got a hot's got a hot load. Big old hot load. What does that mean? It means he's got live rounds and fucking, you know, one in the chamber type of deal. But a hot load is a real weird way to put that.

Had a hot load in my gun and my sergeant was right behind me. That sounds like the start of a very pornographic scene. He said, oh, it gets worse it gets so worse quote i was scared i'd blast through him and blow away my partner that is i was afraid my hot load would blow my partner away after blasting all over this strange guy split him right in two. So the guy they arrested is Jay Smith. Yeah. It is him. Why is he doing all this weird shit?

Well, that's the thing. They said a variety of items were found in his car, including four loaded handguns. Wow. And that's not including the ones he had on him, on his person. A hood mask, a bolt cutter, and a syringe filled with a tranquilizer what this is a fucking kidnap kit is what he's got this is insane uh but he said i can explain everything obviously yeah he said listen i need the guns to scare some people who've been harassing me okay i think one gun will do it you don't even have you don't have four arms how the fuck do you carry six guns at once that's ridiculous and he said now the syringe

that's not mine but i got a junkie son-in-law i bet it's his i bet he left it in here that goddamn junkie son-in-law of mine okay that's what he said many other items of interest were in there at his home especially uh one is three pounds of weed they find in his house. How did he go so wrong? Dude, this is wild, man. This man used to be a principal. This was while he was working for the school still. He got fired because of this.

Right. This is how he gets fired. He got a promotion. He got a promotion. He was higher up than the principal here. fired he got a promotion he got a promotion he was higher up than the principal here so they find uh that they find a bunch of illegal pills you know drugs and quaaludes and shit like that yeah four gallons of nitric acid which they determined had been stolen from the school office equipment that had been reported missing from the upper marion school district

he stole office equipment from his fucking shit. He also had badges and uniforms like those worn by Brink security guards and stolen Army ID cards. Also, several silencers for the guns. Uh-oh, that's illegal. All these are illegal. And they said, this is amazing, quote, Smith also hoarded pornography

hoarded it no one else is yeah i just picture him like you know a big pile he's got his arms out just scooping more in going no it's all mine no one can touch it yeah i'm hoarding this with a heavy preference for bestiality okay i. I mean, of all the, it's certainly, now it's the thing, now it's escalated on the list of things to be worried about. If it's just pornography, middle of the road. Hey, whatever. But top of the list when it's bestiality. Especially if his wife's got cancer and she's sick and he's probably not having any sex. Right.

So, I mean, yeah, if he's got to whack it, he's got to whack it. That's fine. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, silencers, then bestialityity is that i think the things to be concerned with here fuck that dog or i'll shoot you and no one will hear it that's what i see happening there so weird and i gotta tranquilize it so it won't bite you hold on yeah that's it oh now the tranquilizer is even scarier this whole thing is disgusting i'm not

like anyone so fuck a german shepherd and they're a little feisty. Oh, they're real feisty. So as you might imagine, the media goes bonkers with this. He works for the school district, and he's upper Marian principal, and he's found with all his bestiality and silencers and stolen IDs. It's a real party for the press here. It's a real party for the press here. It's around this time, 1978, in October, that Susan Reinert, her mother, dies here. It was two months after this happened, after he's arrested. Susan's mother dies. Her mother dies October 27th, 78.

She leaves Susan some inheritance, though. She leaves her $30,000 in cash okay which is not bad for 1978 yeah a wedding ring worth fifteen thousand dollars god damn that's a big fucking ring fuck that is fifteen thousand in 1978 yeah so that's gotta be a rock it's gotta be encrusted right wow i mean it's a huge rock that's like like Paul Wall's mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Crystal clear rock. And some property valued at $200,000 at the time. I mean, I hate to. So.

If you're going to lose your mom, pretty solid payday on it. Almost quarter of a million dollar deal here. They said the mother. Yeah, took care of her. Yeah. So now she's divorced. Susan is. So now she's got a little financial security here, which is helping her a little bit.

It's about the same time, back to Bill Bradford Jr. here. Bill awoke suddenly from the night, from a vivid, terrifying dream. Yeah. Okay, full color, just, I mean, pow, popping. Rock hard cock about it. Cock, I mean, it's always rock hard but he said that he had a dream about an event that seemed trivial at the time it occurred but okay no he said quote he ran into jay smith in ocean city maryland okay he said yeah he did and he's

in the dream in the dream well no he said he had the dream. Well, no, he said he had ran into, it's a long time. He said he had a dream, but also he said that he had run into Jay Smith in Ocean City, Maryland, not in the dream in real life. And that, he said, was the same Saturday that they said he robbed the first Sears store. Oh. So he's going to be his alibi. Oh. So he's going to be his alibi. But Bradfield here, Bill, tells his friend Vince Valitis, who lives in the same apartment complex as him and also teaches, that he knew something ominous about Smith.

Oh. Okay. He says that the dream will make sense in a minute when I explain how this wraps around. He told Vince. So Bill tells Vince he's a hitman for the mafia oh he does have four guns and silencers and hoods and id cards and shit so i mean i mean honestly yeah it's i mean honestly that's fuck i mean if someone if you said someone's a hitman for the mafia and i went yeah bullshit and then i searched their car and i had all that shit in there i go i mean he might be fuck i don't know now i'm not sure and this is the 70s too it sounds you know unrealistic now but in the 70s it was

still kind of unfettered you can there was a lot of hitmen for the mafia it certainly existed in yeah public eye too it was right up front so this vince guy said he wasn't sure what to make of that he said he told him bill that is the nuttiest thing I've ever heard. But he said that Bill was convinced. He said, not only that, listen to what my dream said. My dream said that this Jay, not only is he a mafia hitman, he's planning to kill Susan Reinhart. Oh. He's planning to kill. Vince said, how do you know?

And so he says that, quote quote this is what he told vince bradfield said he says she knows too much about his trash okay okay um then the guy said what trash by the way this is from a book called echoes in the darkness which we'll talk about later also because the guy not really uh above board reporting here. So the guy said, what trash? And Bill said, the trash at school. You know, the rumors about the disappearance of his daughter and Eddie Huddensberger. Vince, he's been, well, I think he's been chopped. I think he's chopped up some bodies and put them in the trash cans around school.

Around school. At the school. This guy knows where the bodies are. You bring a body in and you leave with office equipment. That's what you do with work. So Vince said, he said, that's insane. What are you talking about? Get the fuck out of here. So then Bill

said, it is. You think it's really that insane? He said, what do you think he was doing with that nitric acid he stole from the school? And how about those homemade silencers the police found? You know Dr. Smith well enough, don't you? You named him the Prince of Darkness. Because that's what the guy had called him, the Prince of Darkness.

I think because he wears black suits all the time. Yeah, that makes sense. Also. So Vince said he makes things up, Bill. Jay Smith always tries to shock everybody. He's just one of those guys that needs to be bigger than he is. Yeah. And then Bill says he's been having an affair with her, Vince.

He told me all about it. Okay. So that's what he says. He says now Susan's been having an affair with Jay, too, she says. Also. Okay. Also. And then Bill says, we can't go to the police, Vince. You have to swear to keep this a secret

what i don't know that he's planning on killing her because i dreamt it that's what would i tell the police so this vince says we can't he says we've got to go to the police vince said and bill said we have no proof right which is totally true not one shred of proof they'd laugh at us they wouldn't believe us and then we'd be in grave danger and Vince said who the fuck is we I'm just you just involved me in this I don't know shit about shit here

and Bill said the man's diabolical he'd come for us he'd come for us in the night in the night he'd come for our parents or his mafia friends would. He'd be relentless. Okay. Wow.

He'd be relentless. So then Bill tells Sue Myers, the woman he's living with and kind of together with, tells her about it as well. Says that, look, Jay Smith, the former former principal wants to kill susan i know about this sue sue myers was jealous because at we know this because at one point sue myers physically attacked susan ryan oh over the jealousy of your fucking my man type of deal so there was a attempted cat fight there so for her she's like i don't really care if he kills her or not that's literally what she was like whatever don't really give a shit so then bill also warns sue myers that she must not go to the police about jay smith's terrible

awful you know plans and she was like i don't fucking care if it happens or not so why would i go to the police nothing's happening nothing has happened and i don't care if it does so right don't have to worry about me enter a guy named chris pappas p-a-p-p-a-s yeah he's a substitute teacher who was also told by bill that you know dr j smith has a secret mafia hitman career he wants to kill susan or he and you know he wants so it's a big mess for today why are you telling me this i guess he's there all the time subbing all around i'm here like i'll be in two districts over tomorrow i don't know which so he also tells this chris pappas that he's in a moral dilemma i don't know what to do about this he He said this Jay Smith's a dangerous criminal.

He's a dangerous criminal, but I also know that he did not commit the Sears robbery as well because I saw him in Ocean City, Maryland. So I know he didn't do it. He said, what should I do? Should I keep quiet and just let him go to prison for these robberies? That way he won't hurt anybody else. Or should I give him the alibi so that, you know, justice comes out on top?

What should I do here? So the guy he's talking to, Pappas, said that you have a moral obligation to tell the truth at trial regardless of what type of person Smith was. That's your moral obligation. of what type of person Smith was. That's your moral obligation. So as it comes closer to the trial, Bill keeps telling all of his friends that he just felt terrible about this whole thing and he fears the harm that this Jay Smith's

going to do to Susan, but also he doesn't want the guy to be convicted of a crime he didn't commit, so his brain is being torn in so many different directions. So heavy. heavy yeah it's it's very very silly here he never by the way said why um because he had told all the teachers don't you can't go to the local police because jay smith knows all the cops and they'll ignore you okay they'll just ignore you so he never did say though why that since jay smith has so many friends on the police force they would be you know falsely charging him with crimes that he didn't do right yeah he's so

yeah he's so connected so bill says there's only one thing he can do here he's gonna have to be used go he's gonna get called to court he's not gonna perjure himself he's gonna have to be the alibi witness for jay in court but in order to do this he's got to be susan's protector now he's got to protect her at all costs he says he said yeah according to all this he had he said i'm going to do that he would drive her he told his friends that he drives her but you know to his her house and back uh would follow jay smith's car to prevent him from going and hurting anybody you know i stalk him i just follow him to make sure to see where he's going here he needed to protect susan yeah really really batman in this up yeah no shit so 1978

susan applies for an exchange teaching position in eng on the Fulbright-Hayes program. Awesome. In December of 78, she also attempts to buy life insurance from the USAA company for $500,000, which is a lot. Naming as her beneficiary, obviously her two kids, right? No, William Bradfield Jr. is the beneficiary obviously her two kids right no william bradfield jr is the beneficiary okay now this from again from that book they said quote the insurance company denied her application on the grounds that such a large policy would over insure her life yeah listen sweetheart you ain't worth half a million i don't know who you've been talking to or nothing. You'd be worth more dead, and that's dangerous.

That's dangerous. It's not good for you. So that policy doesn't go through, but there's other ones here. Susan and Bill then get engaged. What is going on? Yes. Now, Susan told all of her friends, or not all of them, but a couple of close friends, in March of 79, that Bill finally asked her to marry him after all these years.

She said that she had given him her mother's $15,000 wedding ring to have it reset. And also that Bill had gotten her an investment in a, quote, high-yielding certificate that will secure her kids college educations for the future so everything is going wonderfully just wonderfully so he she actually thought the investment was so good she tried to bring in her brother pat and she said she's going to invest 25 000 in a certificate that offers 12 interest that's incredible that is is either illegal or soon to be illegal. One of the two, because that doesn't work. And her brother was like, yeah, no, that sounds crazy. That doesn't sound right.

So Susan starts making withdrawals here in February, goes to the King of Prussia Continental Bank and says she'd like to withdraw $25,000 from her $30,000 bank account. Now, bankers are, they say that huge cash withdrawals. They go get the manager to make sure this person's not being scammed or being forced or something like that, because that's just odd that someone would say, give me most of my money in cash right now. It's weird. So this teller tells the bank manager who comes out, and she said, it's a legitimate investment.

You know, this is crazy. And he said, in a legitimate investment, there's no purpose served by handing over cash. You don't need this in cash. You can get a cashier's check or, you know, whatever other negotiator, wire transfer to the correct thing, not a cash. You don't need this in cash. You can get a cashier's check or whatever other wire transfer to the correct thing. Not a cash. You don't need to have cash. She said, it's my money. I'm not a child.

I want cash. Okay. He said, why not accept a cashier's check? It's every bit as negotiable as cash. You can walk in and cash it. But if you lose it, you can also, you know, it's easier. Stop payment on it. Yeah. So no i want cash he said how about a wire transfer that's quick to be done in a second he said this money could be moved from our bank to the credit of the person of of his bank you

know what i mean of your person and his bank we could do this very easily she told him cash asshole basically in a polite way she said this investment i have to do it's going to make me a very high rate of return and told him 12 and i want my cash he then said quote i've i've haven't heard of anyone offering more than nine percent ever yeah like that's crazy so he said if it was higher than that then you know i don't know he says yeah he said i'll give you 1500 cash right now if you want there's a law permitting banks to refuse cash if they felt the customer is being victimized that way they can't sue the bank later for letting them do that and it's a big it's a thing too i know people who work at banks and that happens all the time. Elderly people, they'll stop these shit a lot because some ne'er-do-well niece or some shit trying to rob them blind.

So if it was for higher than that, so, you know, that's how it goes. So she took the $1,500, then began pulling her money out of the bank in increments of five000 until she got to $25,000 because that doesn't raise any flags. So that's what she did. Now at this time, Bradfield buys a boat. Oh? And Susan changes her will. Okay? Yeah.

Bradfield tells some friends of his about some $25,000 he'd saved up over the years. Oh, this motherfucker. Yep. It was going toward buying a boat, said he's been saving this money he said that he was afraid that uh that banks might all go under so he wanted he got he keeps all his money in cash i gotta banks are gonna go under i'm gonna keep all my money in a boat so i well no i kept it all in cash over the years and now i'm gonna put it in this boat you know because because i'm a sound investment guy totally i buy boats absolutely so he wanted his friend chris to rent a safety deposit box for him that would include you know that he could get his shit on there and all that. March 3rd, 1979 was the day that Smith, J. Smith, is convicted of attempted theft of the Sears store.

We'll talk about the trial for two seconds here. And also this is the day that Susan Reinhart purchased $250,000 in life insurance. It had a $200,000 accidental death rider. And that clause includes murder, by the way. Oh, boy. Yes. It's beneficiary, William Bradford Jr. Now, on the next day, though, she changed her will there because that's how that went.

The next day, her children and her brother were no longer beneficiaries at all because she had William, her brother, and her children were her beneficiaries. brother were no longer beneficiaries at all because she had William, her brother and her children were her beneficiaries. The next day she went back and got rid of her kids and brother as beneficiaries and only William was the beneficiary. So. Interesting. Now, Bradfield testifies in the in the trial for Smith. He testified, said that he had an alibi.

The jury does not believe him, apparently, though, because they do convict him. They do convict Smith., even though Bill testified. So he, though, Smith, is freed on bail pending appeals. Oh. Which is wild because he was doing, like, armed robberies. It's not like he was interested. The man was armed to the teeth. Let's let him out.

Wow. Then in June, Susan buys two more life insurance policies, one for $150,000 and one for $100,000, together with what she inherited from her mother. Now, if she's dead, she's worth $1.1 million. My God. And life insurance, property, and cash. So that's pretty interesting. That's a lot.

Yes. property and cash so that's pretty interesting that's a lot um yes at one point later on the cops would say that woman's stupidity was a crime that's how they say about it because that was because it's pretty obvious what's going on but she's in love with the guy yeah yeah she's in love with him she found him charming like everybody else and you know that's how it goes and who knows how he talked her into that. You know what I'm saying? We have no fucking idea. He's charming. He might have said, you know, well, we got to get married.

If we're going to get married, you know, we got to have everything together and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What about your kids? It's fucking great. Meanwhile, he shares a bank account with the other Sue, by the way, with Sue Myers. They've shared a bank account since 74. They're broke. He never has any fucking money but somehow he saved up 25 000 the exact amount that she got yeah ridiculous so then he says that listen i think your life is in danger bill tells susan i think your life is in

danger and um he doesn't say from who though he just says just says, I think it's in danger. And, you know, she said that that trip to England, that might be especially dangerous. Who knows? You know, that's the thing. And, you know, I don't know. It's rough. So maybe you shouldn't go. Now, obviously, the kids are over here, too. Like we talked about, they're 11 and 10 at this point.

Karen's a little blonde kid. Happy-go-lucky little blonde kid, and you got little Michael here, and he's an athletic kid who plays baseball and likes creative writing. Okay. Very fucking nice here. So 1979, Bill, here during this whole thing, the summer of 79, Bill plans to go to Santa Fe, New Mexico.

New Mexico. Yep. thing the summer of 79 bill plans to go to santa fe new mexico yep he said he planned to go to spend the summer of 79 taking courses at saint john's college in santa fe new mexico he said though before he went there though he wanted to have a nice relaxing beach vacation you know because new mexico is hell so before i head over there yeah there's not a not a beach to be found no so yeah he said that he needed a vacation because all of this protecting susan from jay has been wearing them out yeah it's constant it's like they sound like every time he turns around jay's like got a you know fucking ninja outfit on trying to

get in her window or something he has to come over and shut it and lock it and be like jesus christ it never stops so fucking stupid he also said that uh smith was going to prison for this the sears robberies and he thought that um you know he was planning he he thought that Smith was planning on killing Susan before jail. You know, he had to go to jail and he couldn't get to her anymore. Right. So he said this is Will or Bill. He said if he murders her and I'm around, I could be a suspect because of that silly will. Yeah.

So I got to stop him from killing her or else they'll blame me. Maybe I can't do that. Not I don't want her to die. That's interesting. stop him from killing her or else they'll blame me maybe i can't do that not i don't want her to die that's uh interesting so she he said he needs to have people around him that weekend he wants to hang out so he gets a few people pappas and the vince guy too and some other person they all come along and they go to the shore yeah right they go to the beach earlier that day. Wendy is another person he knows, went to their safe deposit box and made and withdrew all the money in it that he had in there. OK, so June 22nd, 1979. This is where it all comes together here. There's a reason for this. Vince, his friend, Bill's friend, is having dinner with Sue Myers, the live-in sort of girlfriend, at the apartment she shares with Bill. Bill's son Martin and Martin's girlfriend are also there, but Bill hadn't shown up yet.

After dinner, they went down to Vince's place to watch a movie. It's the same complex. As time goes on here, Sue Myers decides that Bill isn't going to show up for their trip to the Cape after all. They're going to Cape May. So she goes back home and goes to bed. About 11.15, Bill comes around knocking on Vince's door. He said, where's Sue?

And Vince said, she went to fucking bed. So they talk for a little while here and then he turns to, Bill turns to Vince and says, let's get some gas for the car let's get packed and let's go let's go now okay it was midnight the move's out it's midnight yeah so he then drives to pappas's house to pick him up as well the substitute teacher and so it's brad it's bill sue myers vince and Pappas. That's where they're going. Pappas takes over driving on the way to the shore.

Bill said he's so worried about Susan. He said, I'm afraid this is it. He said, I'm just afraid. He said, I'm afraid this is the weekend that Dr. Smith could kill Susan Reiner. He said, I tried to protect her. I followed him toward her house. I circled the house 14 times. I lost him in the hailstorm because there's a hailstorm that night to lose someone in a hailstorm. I don't know how much or what size of hail would have to be coming down, but it would have to be fucking bowling balls. Driving reckless through that shit for you. Holy shit.

So Vince said, you don't know that to him and and bill said you know or vince said you don't know that he's going to do her any are any harm and bill leaned back and said quote it's in god's hands now let's get to the beach some shit that i made up is in god's hands so about 5 a.m they get to the heirloom apartments in Cape May, New Jersey. They said both the rooms they ordered were locked and one was occupied. So that's not good. What? Yeah, that's not good here.

So the owner of the heirloom shows up two hours later at 7 a.m. And she was, oh, shit, I'm sorry about that. Put them all in the rooms and all that sort of thing. Put Bill and Myers in one room, the two guys in the other. So the whole time, this whole weekend, Bill is talking and complaining and he says, tells them at one point, quote, I want you to pray for Susan Reiner.

You should. Dude, we're trying to have Mai Tais. Shut the fuck up about Susan. Later that night, they all went to a theater and they said bill was real weird about saving all their ticket stubs you know with dates and times on them and stuff so on sunday morning bill tells vince that they needed to attend mass okay he said we've got to pray for susan yeah and he lit a candle on her behalf and he said this is to keep evil from her it's cool his live-in girlfriend is there he's saying all this shit about another

well yeah she's gonna get killed you know how that goes so before leaving the heirloom apartments that monday bill paid their bill with a check that had four names on it his own and that of the friends that were with him which is very weird what how the fuck do you write a check this is for all of our rooms i i guess i don't know yeah it's four names on he also asked for a written receipt and told the hotel proprietor that she must include friday on the receipt as well yeah make sure you have friday on there too like i'm collecting paperwork here yeah so when they got home bill and sue myers first thing he told sue was that he had to get on the phone to jay smith's attorney after the call he said quote well jay smith was sentenced to jail

because this monday when they came home was the day that Jay Smith is sentenced. And he said, Susan Reinhardt is out of harm's way. Phew. Did it. Oh, man. Literally matrixed bullets. Totally did it. Yeah. He said, it's great.

It's all good. So Vince now was preparing for the trip to St. John's College in Santa Fe when Bill came in and said, I just called Dr. Smith's lawyer. They sentenced him to prison. Thank God he's in jail. He said he started weeping. Oh, he was crying about it. Vince said he sat into a chair and started weeping

and he slowly said, I saved that woman's life. I'm a hero. Yeah. Then they went to Pappas' house and he did the whole thing over again. Cried, said he saved her life. Holy shit. So then, now let's talk about it from Vince's point of view quick because he heard all this shit here.

He said he remembered during that weekend Bill smashing his fist against the back of a car and saying, this is the weekend that Susan Reinhardt would die. I followed him around 14 times and all that. And so he said, you know, he didn't take it seriously. Obviously, they were supposed to have left for the shore right after dinner on Friday at seven o'clock and return on Monday. But they said he didn't come by till after 11 and, you know, an hour and a half after the other people got there.

And this is, by the way, an hour and a half after the last time Susan was seen. Oh. And we'll talk about that. So Vince said, have you been with Smith? And Bill seemed withdrawn, and they said, well, what are you talking about? And they said, come on. It was a weird thing because they were asking him if he had been that night. Were with jay smith and he was like no i don't know what are you talking about so then he was real in a real hurry to go though after everything so they said that um

they liked they went to the weekend he said it was very nice he said at one point bill told him you know vince i think you're the best friend I've ever had. Okay. He said, but after a while, he was running around collecting receipts, and he said, we're going to need everyone to prove that we were in New Jersey if Susan Reiner is killed this weekend. What the fuck is happening to it? Yeah, he talks about being, you know, fucking going to church and all this. He said, Bill said he wanted to go back to church, and he said, quote, Vince, a storm is coming.

My life will never be the same again. Okay. He said, thinking back on it, Vince said, yeah, it was really weird. He said as they drove back from the shore, Bill had unexpectedly turned into an apartment complex and stopped the car out of nowhere. He said he just walked over to a large green dumpster

and lifted up a layer of trash from the dumpster and buried a brown envelope in there. We all do that. All of us touch garbage when we throw it in a dumpster first, right? On a road trip? They said as soon as they got home, Bill ran upstairs to his apartment saying he had to call Smith's lawyer. A few minutes later, he came in and hugged Vince and said, I did it. I did it. did it he said thank god it's over smith's in jail i saved that fucking woman's life he said wow now sue june 22nd 1979

that friday her we'll go a little karasawa here and give you the the fragmented pieces of this friday a neighbor saw susan reinert and her kids hurry to her car about 15 minutes after this neighbor heard the phone ring in her home in susan's home how fucking closely are you paying attention to this lady when you hear her phone ring and then watch her her and her kids leave that's crazy look at the clock yeah it's real weird throughout the day michael her son had been with ken who worked as a senior personnel officer for fidelity bank in another suburb of philly here that night they had went to a father-son softball game together yeah wow this is a great dad yeah yeah but susan had shown up to pick Michael up early, which they had to stop.

They had to pull out of the game because the kid had to leave here. So around 830 here, Michael would call his dad at home and apologize for having to leave the softball game early. Sorry, dad. So sometime that evening, Susan calls her former in-laws, the Reinerts, Florence and John, and she's like I said, they always talk. While talking to them, she asked, she said, do you think I have this much gas in the car? Do you think that's enough to drive to Allentown, Pennsylvania and back? It's about an hour or so north. So this was during the gas crisis, so she didn't want to stop and get gas. It's expensive.

This was during the gas crisis, so she didn't want to stop and get gas. It's expensive. She said she had close to a full tank, and they thought she had more than enough to drive to Allentown that weekend, then drop the kids off at their grandparents early the next week. She had to go to one of her Parents Without Partners conferences in Allentown. She was signed up to do a workshop, and she registered her two kids for some events that weekend and they were all set and ready to leave early Saturday morning and return later in the weekend. But they said instead

Friday evening around 9 o'clock in the middle of a huge hailstorm you got Susan and her two kids are outside in the driveway and the kids are picking up hailstones and playing with them and shit. So they said that was around then. Then they said about an hour and a half later,

the neighbor said they heard the ignition from Susan's car or an orange-red Plymouth Horizon, they said, which had a very distinct sound when you started it. Probably had a loose belt or something. Yeah. Of course, you had some hot cherry bomb exhaust on that bastard. Yeah. yeah so then some hot cherry bomb exhaust on that bastard yeah they said a few minutes later they noticed that the that her car was missing from her driveway

and so they said okay well she probably left her home with her two kids and who knows where she's going whatever but they they were like wow she's going out in this hailstorm i hope she's all right right monday june 25, the end of that weekend. That's the day that Jay Smith goes to jail and all that sort of shit here. A caller calls who will not identify themselves, calls 911 and said, look, I'm in this hotel parking lot and that's the host in motel. And it's about 530 a.m. here. And and there's a sick woman in the motel parking lot. Oh. And then hangs up the phone.

Sick woman, and they said like a weird Spanish-type accent, they said. So they said that was the call. So the police come here to this motel, which is near Harrisburg. Police come here to this motel, which is near Harrisburg. I think it's Swatara Township, I think is the exact location of it, here. And when they get there, they see the car that the person was calling about. It's an orange-red Plymouth Horizon in the parking lot. The hatchback is open.

Oh. Okay? When the police walk up to the car, see susan's very dead nude body in the back of her car in the back in the hatchback whoa yeah wide open hatchback yeah so they called in case the cops showed up and didn't investigate they had to leave it open for him you know so they said that the um you know this came they looked after this call came in by the way the police will later accidentally destroy the 911 tape which would be very good evidence that they don't have now. So it's at this point that evening that she's discovered now Bill and Chris Pappas take a flight to Santa Fe that weekend. Yeah.

That night. Yeah. Yeah. So now, initially, too, the police don't reveal any specific details about her death. And we'll talk about what happened to that. They said that her remains were identified by Ken. Ken had to identify the remains. And I guess better than making her parents do it for Christ's sake. So the thing that they are not that they don't see, though, are the two kids. Are there two kids? Yeah, what the fuck? Where are they? She left with two kids, and now she's here, and they don't know where the two kids are.

So they're like, okay. So the police spend the next several hours just trying to find the kids. They said, you know, hopefully they got left, because they don't know. Maybe Susan dropped them off with a babysitter or a friend, or she knows a million people. So who the fuck knows here? We don't know. They could be sitting in there playing fucking Connect 4. We have no idea. But they checked in with all of her usual babysitters, friends, family members.

None of them had seen the children that weekend at all. And they don't know where the hell the kids are. So they don't know. State Trooper John Holtz from the Harrisburg barracks will later say, quote, We're hoping that the children will be at a friend's house. We doubt it very much, but we're hoping for it. Jesus, that's quite the quote to put in the fucking public pretty sure they're splattered somewhere but we're hoping

for a babysitter god what the fuck sir they were unsure the cops as to why the vehicle had been driven here it's a hundred miles away from her home you know her and her kids had been planning on staying in allentown which is 90 miles the opposite direction. That's where she had a hotel reservation earlier and all that. Investigators checked with the motel staff and discovered that neither Sue nor her children had stayed at this motel that they found her out that weekend, and nobody from the area

recognized anybody. So Susan or the kids. The clerk at the host inn first noticed the car in the parking lot a few hours before the police came, but were unsure. they didn't know when it pulled up. So investigators said that her body may have been sitting in the parking lot for the better part of the previous day, with the killer likely disposing of it on Sunday, of the car and the body. A trooper later said a cop said, quote, no one we talked to can yet give us a reason why susan was in harrisburg they have no fucking idea so the autopsies performed here okay first of all it's brutal

number one absolutely fucking brutal but let's get to some physical evidence first they found half a dozen small red fibers that were invisible to the naked eye found in her hair. Oh. Carpet-ish fibers, okay? A couple of blue fibers were found, and a white substance around her mouth and in her hair was a material that probably came from adhesive tape. Oh.

First they thought she had dried semen on her, and then they found out it was tape. The coroner though really really fuck something up good here we'll talk about why the coroner fuck something up good but um the coroner is the the autopsies performed by the dauphin county coroner dr william bush who is not a forensic pathologist but an internist which makes a big difference in this type of thing here so her body is it's bad um she he describes the cause of death as asphyxiation here um let's talk about it he she's been beaten severely brutally all over her body massive bruises and scratches all over her body what the fuck

all over including a what they call a deep black eye um they said that she was stripped naked at some point and bound with chains at some point at some point she had chains on her naked ankles wrists and other things too they said that she may have been dragged a small distance with that chain as well. With the chain. With like a fucking tree. Yeah. They said she was definitely not immediately killed. The medical estimates place her death 24 to 36 hours after the initial beating. Oh, fuck, man.

Tortured for a day and a half is what that is. And who knows what happened during that time too because we still can't find her kids at this point and um yeah they said who knows what what kind of shit she went through over this i think she was sexually assaulted as well yeah it's fucking horrifying so this doctor determines cause of death to be strangulation or suffocation. Either way, asphyxia. And they said that she was either bound beforehand, likely with a chain. They said they didn't know about sexual assault, but they said that cuts and bruises all over her body indicated she'd been beaten before killed and then placed in the wheel well of her own vehicle

back there over there they said while strangulation was deemed the most likely cause of death he could not rule out suffocation due to finding that the tape had been placed over her mouth before death doctor theorized this might have been played a part in her murder like depriving her of necessary oxygen and it would you know eventually cause death here they said that susan had been deceased for approximately 24 hours when her body was found in the host in parking lot so sometime between friday night and saturday night yeah you know saturday sunday morning this happened they said this was at least uh 27 hours after she'd driven away from her home with her two children. So the thing is, months later, Susan's cremated here, but they take tissue samples from her and stuff, physical evidence shit.

Months later, they test her blood and tissue samples and find out, no, it's not strangulation is the cause of death. It's actually a massive lethal dose of morphine was given to her before death the doctor missed the they found the pictures later at the time the doctor missed the injection site completely where was it didn't fucking i don't know didn't notice it here didn't see it they said there was enough morphine in her body to kill her 10 times over wow obviously an intentional overdose and Susan didn't do drugs or anything like that.

So, yeah. They said, though, her two children, they said they can't find her. They also can find no trace of several of Susan's belongings, including her clothes, her purse, her glasses,

which she wore every fucking day. Inside the car, they could only find random things, most of which weren't relevant. They found an umbrella, a matchbook cover from a motel in Gettysburg where she stayed the year before for a conference, fast food wrappers, an empty Coke bottle, part of a blanket, a towel, and a blue comb, which bore the name 79th Army Reserve Command, Norristown, Pennsylvania. Who do we know that's an Army reservist? Reservist? Who is a colonel in the Army Reserves? Oh, Jay.

Jay is a colonel in the Army Reserves. So they said, though, the most intriguing thing they found also, a big rubber dildo was found underneath the front seat like in the springs. They said they did not believe that this dildo belonged to Sue because their fingerprints weren't on it at all. And they think it was probably placed there by the killer to confuse in some way, shape, or form. I'll throw a dildo in there. They'll never figure this out. So they don't really have. They have fibers, a partial fingerprint, and that's it, and a dildo.

And a comb. And a comb. Yeah. So they later find out that comb is given out as a recruiting tool. So there's thousands of them out there too. So the reaction here, one of the neighbors said, quote, she was the last one you'd think this would happen to. She was so cautious. She was so careful about who she's with.

She's been with Bill for years now. She said that's the way it was. Another person neighbor said, I can't imagine the killer was someone she didn't know. Her children were her social life. She didn't go out to bars. She called them a freak scene. The bars, not her kids. So the morning.

Jay called her kids jay called her kids absolutely so the morning of the body being found jay smith was arriving to court to be sentenced he was 20 minutes late to court oh jay the judge sentences him to you sir may fuck off two to five years okay okay now the next day yeah a friend of susan's a woman named sharon, called Bill up all the way in New Mexico, found him out there, and said, do you know what she was doing in Harrisburg or where she was planning on going that week? And he said, I have no idea. And she said, you were supposed to go to England with her this summer. That's what I heard. And Bill said, no, not at all.

Susan was pursuing me and trying to persuade me to go to England, but I told her I wasn't interested. So the friend was like, okay. So then she asked, do you know where the kids are? Did you talk to her and did she say where she dropped the kids off?

And he said, quote, the children? Oh yes, the children. How old were the children? That's not the question. What? And the word. Oh, yes, the children. How old were the children? That's not the question. What? And the word were shouldn't be in there either. No. That's another problem.

That's a real issue, that tense thing. So this Sharon Lee said, I didn't like that response at all. So, yeah, that's not good. Awful. And also, if you're the beneficiary of somebody's fucking everything, wouldn't you know the distance that he's putting? Like she was pursuing me. Yeah, like I don't even know those. I don't really care that much about her. I was really just a friend.

Couldn't pick those kids out of a lineup there. So Ken Reinhardt is a big suspect right away. Yeah. The ex-husband. He's an ex-husband i have this the police sergeants there they said they observed his reaction carefully they said he appeared normally distraught like you'd expect and later when he was answering questions he was he was asked answering their questions and he was saying who's taking care

of the kids yeah that's ken brought up the kids the officer officer said, what kids? What the fuck are you talking about? They didn't even know there was kids involved. And he said, my fucking kids. Where are they? Where are they? That's important here. So the father and the officers then, everyone's trying to find out where the fuck they are. So there's a big memorial here, by the way, for her.

Big giant memorial. All the kids come from the school and it's a it's a big deal here so during this there's conversations and everything vince ends up vince the other teacher he goes to church after this because he has to confide confide in someone yeah he said that he was driving and it was a heavy thunderstorm and he had to get there and he told the priest something very terrible has happened father i must talk to you and he said it concerns the susan reinert murder and the priest was like okay i love gossip come on in let's see let's go so he gets in there and he starts telling him all about bill and he says he was my closest friend and he tried for months to keep dr smith from killing susan but the effort you know he couldn't do it and bill warned me i can't go to

the police because he said smith's a madman and he's killed so many people and he said smith has mafia ties he'd have my parents killed i don't know what to do yeah please father so the father has to be like what are you out of your fucking mind so he says he told him you've done nothing wrong son it's probably best not to go to the police because everything you know is hearsay What are you, out of your fucking mind? He says he told him, you've done nothing wrong, son. It's probably best not to go to the police because everything you know is hearsay. Try instead to get Bill Bradfield to go to the police. That's what he said. Okay, now, as soon as he got home, Vince calls New Mexico to talk to Bill. He said, I've talked to a priest, Bill.

to talk to Bill. And he said, he said, um, I've talked to a priest, Bill. He said, the priest told me it's important for you to go directly to the police and tell them everything,

you know, about Jay Smith. Right. And Bill, then after a long pause says, maybe it wasn't Smith. What? So he said,

what are you talking about? Then he says, quote, there's someone else who might've done it. A black man named Alex that Susan dated. He said, listen, Vince, I think these lines are being tapped. Thanks for your call. I'll be talking to the police as soon as they submit their questions.

What a call. Yeah, this is crazy. So Vince is now reading all this shit in the paper and he's freaking out here. So he talks to the FBI. Yeah. He talks to the FBI and tells them everything he knows, which really isn't much. It's really just a bunch of. It's a guy that went on a car ride.

But it's somewhat. OK, now they know. OK, Susan was fucking Bill and then this one was here and then we're worried about Jay. And at least there's there's something to go on here. But, yeah, he says that, least there's there's something to go on here but yeah he says that you know he's talking to them they talk to him out on a porch he calls them over he doesn't

want to talk to the state police though because he said that Bill said that the state police is all corrupt and they're gonna you know they're friends with Jay and it's all scary and you know all this type of shit here it's it's very fucking wild but he said that quote bill bradford told me dr smith was a hitman for the mafia and he was threatening people including

susan and susan knew too much about him in the trash that dr smith was chopping up dead bodies and putting parts of them into trash cans around the high school and they're like what the fuck are you talking about so he's like this is crazy so he goes all there and he said i asked him and he's did you said they said vince did you ever ask bill about any personal relationship he might have with susan reinert and he said yeah i asked him well no i didn't exactly ask him but at one point bill said susan myers thought he was having an affair with susan reinert and he said that was so ridiculous because he'd never been involved with her. Yeah, you just add people to your life insurance

and make them your sole beneficiaries on spec. Just because I care so much for you. Fucking ridiculous. Yeah. Vince said around April 79, Bill and I went to see a film, The Deer Hunter. Oh, really? And that night Bill told me that he was upset because Sue Reiner Around April 79, Bill and I went to see a film, The Deer Hunter. Oh, really? And that night, Bill told me that he was upset because Sue Reinert wanted to make him beneficiary of her will and guardian of her children.

He also said he had a copy of it. He was very distressed and annoyed that she was doing this. How dare she? So, the investigation now. They figure out that Susan had been scheduled to present at a workshop at the Parents Without Partners conference in Allentown, but had been a no-show for the event, causing concern because she'd been a big part of it. She also made arrangements for Karen and Michael to attend children's programs at the conference, but they did not show up either. Additionally, the cops had not checked the motel Sue had reserved weeks prior, which was not the Hostin in Harrisburg where she was found, but was actually the George Washington Motor Lodge near Allentown is where she was supposed to be. As investigators learned, though, Sue had attempted to cancel her plans that weekend, spoke to the woman organizing the conference, and attempted to find a replacement to moderate her workshop. She's spoken to the woman over the phone Wednesday of the week before telling

her that she had an appointment scheduled for Friday evening that might cause her to be delayed. So the investigators also learned she called the motel that she had a reservation for telling them she had to cancel. So she said that the call had come, you know, was a, it was a sudden thing basically.

So they began reaching out to people who knew Sue, the cops do, Susan, her close friends, family members, coworkers, babysitters. None of them had thought anything out of the ordinary happened the week before. Susan wasn't acting funny. Nothing. They said everybody's got an alibi that might want to hurt her, including Bill Bradfield. He's been at the beach with several other people. Police go to her home, Susan's home in Ardmore. They discover it appears to be untouched.

Doors are locked. Nothing seems out of place. Doesn't appear like anything's been broken or stolen. The kids' bedrooms, they even found clothes laid out on the bed in neat piles right next to the suitcases. Ready to go. Ready to go. Ready to go. Sue had been packing their belongings that weekend, and that's how this happened here.

So they visited Ken, the ex-husband, obviously, and Ken said he'd seen both the kids and Sue Friday, having participated in a father-son softball game with Michael. The investigators quickly eliminate Ken as a suspect. He has no financial or personal motive to harm either Sue or the children. None. Everything's fine. He's happy. Everybody's happy. He had a good relationship

with everybody. No worries. He also remarried the last couple years and his new wife had just given birth to another son six months ago. He's been home with the baby and, you know, it's fine. Susan's other family members and friends, including her older brother, Patrick, they were all questioned by the police. They didn't have any helpful information over the next several weeks.

This drags on. Oh, my God. Investigators look at everything. They check everybody out. At one point, they told the newspaper, quote, There are many things we're checking into and trying to tie together. There's nothing right now that we can put our finger on, but we're very optimistic about it. I hope we can find the children alive. I don't know in what condition we'll find them in.

I even hate to think about what could be. We already know what happened to the mother. She's dead. It's been weeks. It's been so long. It's not great here. So a lawyer in Philly here, by the way, on behalf of Ken and her brother, would file a thing in court to hold up the processing of any will that might have been left behind to make sure that this doesn't go to somebody else. So then it comes to light that Bill is the beneficiary. Yeah.

And she described him in her legal filings as, quote, future husband. So now they're like, all right, let's go to Bill. Bill says, I got an alibi. I got Vincent Valatias. I got Susan Myers. They're both English teachers. Look at all these receipts. Look at this.

You want to see the movie we went to? Here it is. Deer Hunter. Pow. They said Susan also lived with Bradfield. Susan Myers. Sue Myers. They obviously had attempted to keep it a secret, but not quite.

They talked to Susan Myers because they're like, we heard that you two didn't get along. We heard that you attacked her physically a couple years ago in the teacher's lounge, by the way. Oh, my God. If only the door was cracked on that one oh the two teachers are going at it holy shit throwing freeze-dried coffee at each other oh i want to see it how much would you pay in high school to see two english teachers go at it to know which one hates the others because they don't tell you anything oh god oh my goodness man so they they talked to bill they talked to everybody jay smith by the way like we said he surrendered to authorities that day when they found the day

they found susan he's sentenced to two to five years in jail which uh you know he'll receives he'll he'll receive he's actually going to be out on bail till he till it all goes through or whatever he's got time to do some shit, a couple of weeks or something. They said, though, that people were speculating, obviously, that Bill must have done this. He's the one who benefits from this. Had to be him. OK. Didn't make sense, though.

They said, though, the investigators said that his personal they talked about they talked about Jay a lot, talking about him, and they said the blue comb found in Sue's car bore the insignia of the 79th Army Reserve Command, the same one that Smith had served as a colonel in. That's not good. That's not good at all. Once they caught on to this, that Smith's already in prison, so he's easy to interview. Just go to prison and find him. By August of 79 here, by the way, Stefanina dies right after he goes to prison and find him by august by august of 79 here uh by the way stefanina dies uh-huh right after he goes to prison there they said that uh which i am suspicious about by the way yeah he went to they went to i'd like to know if she was dead before he went to prison because otherwise

he has a lot of shit and injections and if she's almost dead from cancer anyway who's to say he wasn't like let me put her down before I go. Or if he was like taking care of her and then just abandoned her in that house and she needed her medication, she just died. We don't know. We have no fucking idea. So more than a dozen FBI agents are going to contribute to all this. They had a joint task force with Pennsylvania state troopers and other local officials, all sorts of probing the relationships between this one and that one. And the media is going crazy. The media is talking about, is it a cult?

Is it they think it's an occult thing? Is it this? Is it that? Like they're going running fucking wild with it because no one's been arrested. So they can just say, who knows? It could be anything they said one in the philadelphia bulletin in august there was a report that susan had fallen prey to devil worshippers whom she may have been familiar with quote it says quote intellectual professionals not necessarily the types of individuals you would think of as fanatical sex perverts they did not balk at using animals for sex exhibitions and encounters because jay had the

magazines here september 79 members of the task force combed through the apartment that bill lives in bill and susan meyers there this includes the woods behind the complex where they do that because an anonymous caller told the police that the bodies of Susan's two children had been buried behind the apartment complex. So according to the media here, the caller had described the kids as being buried in a shallow grave between the apartment complex and a landmark a mile into the woods. Somewhere in there. Somewhere here and a mile that way. And a mile into the woods. So finally, though, after an exhaust exhaustive search they couldn't find anything yeah so a grand jury gets convened oh god how

to evaluate whether or not to proceed with the case that they're building subpoenas are sent out and all this type of shit uh it's it's interesting here. So the will, again, they're fighting over the will, obviously. They're saying that in court that Bill has been deceiving Susan over an extended period of time. So they're talking about a financial motive. They said he scammed her and all this type of shit. They said when they looked through all her shit, they ended up finding, obviously, money missing from her bank account uh which had been given to bill and then also stock and bond certificates that when they looked at what the fuck they were they were just homemade shit that bill made they're nothing they just yeah so

the missing 25 000 it's it's pretty fucking it's pretty wild wild here. Now, he, on the other hand, Bill, says that they weren't planning on getting married. I didn't even know I was a beneficiary. We weren't even romantically involved. We were just a friend. She was a friend. She's very troubled. I tried to tell her, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, she said that Mrs. Reinhardt rarely did, this is what he said, Mrs. Reinhardt rarely did as I suggested she should do. She dated people who I thought she ought not to date, and she went places she should not go. So anyone could have killed her. What about the fake stocks and bonds, though? That's fucking wire fraud, isn't it, or something? Well, he testified he never gave her anything, and she never gave him anything, never gave him a dime.

Never gave her anything. And she never gave him anything. Never gave him a dime. He said that he knew very little of Susan's money management, but implied that he didn't know of her having any money. He said, quote, she always seemed to me to have very limited means. They said, well, why would she name you the beneficiary of a million dollar estate? He said, beats me. Weird, right?

That's it. I'll take it. Jesus Christ. So they're trying to get a warrant to search Jay Smith's home, his old home, in May of 1980. So multiple news outlets are beginning to report what investigators found. And they compared fibers on Susan's body to fibers taken from a carpet in Smith's home. fibers on Susan's body to fibers taken from a carpet in Smith's home. Through the test, investigators discovered that the fibers match, making a link between the two.

Uh-oh. Now, over the next several months, it's very weird here. Investigators are probing Jay Smith's connections to both Susan Reinhardt and Bill Bradfield as well here. So they discover the disappearance of smith's daughter and son-in-law again remember them yeah stephanie and eddie they're gone so like what the fuck's up with that and they discover that he's been cashing their welfare checks and disappeared that you can't do that he's been fraudulently doing that that's not great and they asked him well where's your fucking daughter? And he said, quote, Stephanie is alive.

I'm not at liberty to say more than that. Oh, okay. Wait, what about Eddie? Don't worry about him. They didn't ask me about him. Yeah. The investigator later on said, quote, you can't get a fix on the guy. This guy has a variety of lives and skins.

Almost everybody you talk to has a different picture of him. Some people say he's crazy and mean. Some people say he's like an erudite sophisticated guy some people say he's like this it's but they all say he's got baggy eyes that hooded hooded eyes february 20th 81 cops show up at bill's home in downington pennsylvania they arrest him on two counts of theft and a single count of conspiracy, alleging on their warrant that Bradfield kept the $25,000 given to him, which she only had also been charged as a co-conspirator. She's 20 years old at the time and attending university in California. And she says that they were romantically together after her high school graduation. Oh, Jesus.

Even the kids aren't off limits to this guy. How does he do it? Wow. So the next Monday, February 23, 81, Bill is freed on bail, had been set to 25 000 by the way uh they will be like a boat's worth of bail so the civil suit filed by susan's brother and uh ken came to a resolution it was announced that 36 000 would be allocated from susan's unresolved estates to pay further investigations into the whereabouts of the children. This is for to investigate. The funds would also be used to contest the rest of Susan's will to prevent Bill from collecting any money.

Whose choice was that? What? To spend that money? Him. Oh, Bill's choice. Oh, no, this is to spend the money on investigation of the children. Yeah. That was the ex-husband and her brother were fighting to get those funds released to be able to look for the kids.

So he is convicted of stealing $25,000. He definitely did that. He's allowed to go home, though, while he's awaiting sentencing, obviously. They do want his bail to be raised and all this type of shit. They think he might leave the country and, you know, all that kind of thing. His maximum sentence, though, is seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine. 1982, January, they bring in another grand jury about the murder here. Jay Smith, by the way, is serving his time in prison. So they can just question him whenever they want. They can call him, subpoena him and they just bring him right over. So in addition to questioning him about the involvement in the Reiner case, they question they're eager to chat with him about where is your fucking daughter and son in law?

obviously here. So he said that they were just disappeared. Who the hell knows? But they have no clue. Now, the cops have a theory that they think Jay Smith might have been the trigger man for Bill. Yeah, because she was alive for half most most of the weekend. And he was definitely with other people. He couldn't have physically done it himself. He couldn't. That's what they're thinking. He could have got Bill couldn't. Right. Exactly. Bill couldn't have physically killed her himself, though. He couldn't have had her for a day and a half. So each time he appeared in court, they would ask him all these questions. Sometimes he'd cooperate. Sometimes he wouldn't.

Throughout 1982, now three years later, things are quiet. December of 82, they get a tip telling them that the bodies of Karen and Michael, the kids, are in the trunk of a Lincoln Continental, which has been driven into a deep quarry in Chester County, Pennsylvania. What is this? Jimmy Hoffa? For Christ's sake. Are they under the fucking giant stadium? I don't know if this is whoever did it doing this or this is just assholes trying to have fun but they searched the quarry and revealed several submerged vehicles including a vehicle matching the description but none of them had any bodies inside so second

grand jury's and panel like i said and members of the grand jury were talking about taking this thing to the next level april 6th 83. Bill Bradfield is taken into custody by Pennsylvania State Troopers. He had been released from prison for his theft and he's now charged with three counts of murder. They charge him with and conspiracy

to commit murder to with a person or persons unknown. So there's an unnamed co-conspirator kidnapping conspiracy to commit kidnapping and obstruction of the administration of the law. Okay. Now, this is based on a lot of very circumstantial shit here, we'll say. So according to this whole deal here, one of the linchpins that inspired them to pursue the charges was a confession from one of the fellow inmates. A 23-year-old named Proctor Noel had been incarcerated with Bill Bradfield, and he claimed that during a chess match with Bradfield, he said that Bradfield confessed to the murders, claiming he'd been present when Susan and her two children were killed.

He described a convict with two children of his own. Noel is a convict with two children of his own. Noel is a convict with two children of his own. So he said he would come forward and he said he has no personal, you know, motivation other than to do the right thing and all that kind of shit. So they said, they said that Bradfield indicated to Noel at that time that if he hadn't needed money, nothing would have happened to Susan. Bradfield told Noel the whole plan of the

crime was for Susan and it was only to involve Susan, but that something had gone wrong. He said that none of the plan was meant for the children. Bradfield indicated to Noel that it was a shame the children had to suffer by mistake and also told them that when they were killed, he had been present

as well. That's not great. So obviously not. But we don't know where he was in June. He only had two hours to do this from the last time. It's a very small window. So unless he drove away in the middle of the night to meet them out there four hours away, it doesn't make any sense. This guy might just be lying here so they

said that also they found out bill had been carrying on numerous affairs with other women including a former student who would become his accomplice and all that kind of shit it gets to be a lot so they said there are no witnesses who can verify bradfield's whereabouts until 11 30 p.m june 22nd 79 so they're thinking maybe he met with susan and the kids because he's trusted and brought them to jay yeah that's possible maybe so that's a that's a one of the theories here there's no real physical evidence so they're looking for a connection between bradfield and jay smith jay smith's activities on the night in question. They question him about it.

They say, Jay Smith, where were you here and there? He tells them, perfectly cooperative, nothing checks out that he said. They couldn't prove where he was at all, but he definitely wasn't with the people who he said he was with. That's the thing. So that's not good at all, at all. And a letter Smith wrote to his wife the day he was incarcerated. He said that he emphasized that she must clean their car thoroughly and throw out their downstairs rug. Jay wrote that? Okay. Jay wrote that to his wife. To cancer ridden.

Who's going to die in a week. Right. Yeah. Hey, I need going to die in a week. Right. Yeah. Hey, I need you to do some spring cleaning. Yeah. So Christopher Pappas again here. He believed that because Bill was his teacher and his wrestling coach and he thought he was his good friend. And now he's a he's a teacher, too.

And he's real excited here. He said he had remained silent. But now he kind of tells everything he knows. He says, quote, oh boy. He says that we were in the attic of Bill's apartment when he told me that the money was in the trunk of the red Cadillac, which was his father's car, the 25,000. I convinced him that the money should be removed, so Bill and I went down and searched for the money,

which was hidden in plain white envelopes and in a briefcase and also in a gym bag. It took us a good while until we found all the money, which I counted, $5,000 in the gym bag, $10,000 in a briefcase, and the rest in two white envelopes. There were six packets. It was mostly $100 bills. Some of it still had bank wrappers on it. He told me that the bank would not let him take the money out in cash in one lump sum, so he had to make several small withdrawals of $5,000 at a time. So they're doing all of that. He said that he would only take cash. My guy, Bradfield, told me, Pappas said that he'd saved the money throughout the years

and that also he sold some property, took the money out of the bank to buy a boat because he didn't trust banks yeah which is um pretty fucking interesting they said on the night of september um oh this is that's when they get him too that's right so they get they think they got vince kind of you know on their side here um he said that bill they ended up finding um something here they said the the fbi goes to visit pappas and he said pappas said bill must have come to my house and dumped out the acid and filled it with water i had it under my boat waiting for you to come and get it but it was amber and now it's clear he told me he was going to dump it the night after the orphans court hearing was over he asked me to stand by him he said brad. He told me he was going to dump it the night after the orphans court hearing was over. He asked me to stand by him. He said Bradfield also told me that Smith would cut up bodies,

pour acid on them and wrap them in out of town newspapers, then tinfoil and put them in trash cans. The thick kind. He always used cardboard or newspaper on the floor to soak up the victim's blood so no stains would come through. And he said that Smith had two guns when he approached a victim, a large one in his right hand and a.22 caliber with a silencer in it in his left. He told me that Smith felt that a.22 caliber was best for assassinations because it made less noise and the bullet traveled slower. Bill explained that he had entered into a teacher-pupil agreement with Smith in order to learn his techniques and gain his confidence.

He would often practice techniques that Smith told him about. One time he put chains on my wrists and told me that you could suspend the victim with the chains to cause pain. Oh, my God. That's what he said Jay told him. Bradfield also said Smith was planning to beat and torture Reiner before he killed her. So, yeah, it's fucking bad here. Then Pappas goes in and comes out with a paper bag. He takes out two small locks that match these locks in photographs they were looking for, a ski mask, two boxes of.30 caliber ammunition, and a listening device.

And he said, you hook this up to a telephone, a telephone. He said, Bill wanted to use this to record Smith's conversations in case he had to prove at a later date that Smith was a nut. So yeah, he said it's, it's keeps going on here. He also goes on to say that,

uh, Bill said that, um, he had a truth drug and he would take, uh, he would talk, take an eyedropper with acid and drop some in the victim's arm. And if the victim would talk, he would wipe it off with a damp rag. He had like ways of making people talk.

Holy Jesus Christ. So Susan Myers, she talks about how broke they were as well, said, yeah, we were broke and, you know, he didn't have any fucking money. He would have definitely not had twenty five thousand dollars. They said he opened up an art store in the mall at one point and lost eighty five to one hundred thousand dollars in it overnight. Overnight. Yeah. Because no one buys art at the mall. No. So she said not good art anyway.

So he said that he you know, the store was lost and all that. It was at this time he began to tell me that Jay Smith was a nut and Susan Reinhart was going to die and he couldn't stop it. So all these people. He also, Susan Myers handed over several love letters she found. These love letters were not from Susan Reinhart, but from a student there wendy ziggler saying dearest love yeah i love you madly passionately eternally and infinitely i miss you so terribly i sometimes think that if i can't feel your hands running through my hair or have you pull me into your arms and kiss me i shall scream let's see in some more says 1879 i tell myself I will not be ruled by my passion, but that's that it's silly to think that I am not strong enough to get through college without you.

But I'm lying. I need you to be with me. I don't see how I can survive these days, let alone years. I am meant to be a mother. I am ordered to you as a wife. And so what I feel is proper. And I thank God I feel this way. Wow. Wow. Then then she said dearest darling wonderful marvelous william next letter you don't know how your phone call made my whole day think how nice it will be when we wake up and the first thing we touch is each other and she goes on to that then she says your wife wendelin Yes. So Bill's trial for murder here. He gets a public defender. And, I mean, they're presenting a lot of circumstantial evidence.

He testifies, too. Bill does testify. Oh, yeah. He takes the sand. And, you know, they said, why didn't you go to the police when you found out Jay Smith was going to kill her? And he said that we talked about what we should do, but we didn't know what to believe. And, you know, he said we were prisoners in our own fear. That's it. Yeah, that's how it works.

She said that he said that there was a piece of paper. There was apparently a piece of paper that Bradfield, they show Bradfield with various disjointed phrases, including Lord killed kids, taped her. And he's, they said, what's this note we found. And he said a note that I made at Mr. Curran's, my attorneys concerning various things I had heard from Vince heard from Chris or that John Curran had, had told me he heard we, uh, we would go over them and Curran would say, this is a concern uh lord killed kids taped her and the theory was that the authorities were that that was what they were working on so i was

just writing down the details of what happened i just have to know because you guys told me yeah they said did you know who killed her and he said i absolutely don't i have no idea i didn't kill her i don't know anything so obviously so then the cross-examination they say if you're so interested in protecting her why'd you walk away in the time period described as the critical ones when this man would kill what you know why'd you go away on christmas thanksgiving memorial day and he said well i couldn't park in front of susan reiner's house the whole holiday weekend without simply moving in duh i got things to do i got a boat man i got up you got a boat it's pretty fun you're gonna fucking sit outside some broad's house so during the closing they say basically life insurance

policy dead body yeah this guy i mean come on he had to have something to do with it quibono motherfuckers you know what i'm saying he denies that they were even together and meanwhile he's getting thousands of dollars verdict guilty wow an hour and 25 minutes it took them and the jury said wasn't even that hard yeah there was almost no dissent among any of them there at all we all got boats and we want the fuck out of here yeah the only time they got in an argument was when one jury member likened him to charles man, while another compared him to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And they argued about which one he was more like. No, he's a piece of shit like this. No!

That's all we argued about. And by the way, we voted seven to five that he's more like Charles Manson. I don't know if that's a legal distinction, but you should know what we were talking about in there. I don't know if that's a legal distinction, but you should know what we were talking about in there. So, yeah, in February 85, he is sentenced to, you sir may fuck off, three consecutive life sentences. Wow. One, two, three for the kids too. I'm impressed.

You saw them and found them. Yeah, three life sentences. Now, 1987, there's a miniseries involved in here, and it's based on Joseph Wambaugh's book that we talked about, and we'll get into that for one second. It's 87, called Echoes in the Darkness. It's a two-parter, four-hour movie, starring Stockard Channing as Susan. Yeah. Peter Coyote as William.

Robert Loja as Jay Smith. Whatay smith hey talks like this too hey get over here you son of a bitching kid what are you doing in the hallways peter boyle is one of the cops and so is gary cole who is the boss in fucking office space. Oh, really? He's, I'm going to need you to. Really? That's him.

So these are the people. Hey, Peter, what's up? What's happening? And even Treat Williams, who just died, didn't he? Really? Yeah, he did. There you go. Treat Williams is in a tip. Poor bastard.

That happened in 87. Now, throughout the 80s, Jay Smith is applying for parole on his convictions of, you know, armed robberies and shit like that. But the grand jury keeps popping up and, you know, Bill Bradfield keeps blaming him. So Smith is called to meet with investigators and he is asked to provide samples of his handwriting. Reporters, they theorize that this may have something to do with documents or some shit like that. theorize that this may have something to do with documents or some shit like that. But on June 25th, 1985, six years to the day of when her body

was found, Pennsylvania State Police arrest Jay Smith and charge him with three counts of first-degree murder. Uh-oh. He's already in jail, but they arrest him again. So he said, I had nothing to do with the murders of Susan Reinhardt and her two children. Now again, jailhouse

confessions here. A fellow inmate said that Smith said, again, jailhouse confessions here. A fellow inmate said that Smith said, quote, I killed that bitch. And then confessed a similar involvement in the crime to a different prisoner who doesn't even know this other prisoner on the other side of the prison. So they said you pair it together with circumstantial evidence and that he had the opportunity to do this.

And it seems like you know an identical circumstantial case that we presented against bill so they put him on trial more than 90 witnesses are called 110 pieces of evidence the trial by the way throughout the trial joseph wambaugh was president is that right observed everything the writer there he had already made the book by the way and was hoping to get a mini-series at this point and so six hours of deliberation here over two days they find him guilty as well oh shit and they sentence him to, you, sir, may fuck off death in the electric chair. Oh, my God. Are you kidding? No.

They said he's the unnamed co-conspirator and he's a natural fit and that's that. You guys, we don't even have. We don't have shit. We don't have anything. Now, we have a couple of microscopic carpet fibers. This is amazing. That's not much. microscopic carpet fibers this is not much now the problem is jay womba or joseph wombaugh this they found out that fuck man um by the way they call even joseph wombaugh in his book describes

smith as being a goat-eyed sociopath which is a lot this is fucking crazy they found out they're gonna end up granting him a new trial sm, because they found out that he had paid the investigators. Apparently, a January 29th, 1981 letter from Joseph Wambaugh, who wrote Echoes in the Darkness, shows he offered Holtz, who was one of the cops, $50,000 for information before there were any arrests. Wambaugh? What are you doing? I need fucking, yeah, he said, P.S. Since I would start the legwork immediately, we should be very careful about being seen together for the sake of your

job. As far as witnesses would know, I received all my information from news stories and anonymous tips. You dick. That's what he did. That's not good at all, I would say. Also, they find out that they find evidence in one of the cops houses here. It was just in the in the fucking.

Yes. In a sealed evidence bag with fingerprint lifters and marked with FBI lab identification numbers. They found the comb that was in the evidence was not the same comb that was presented at trial. They found the comb that was in the evidence was not the same comb that was presented at trial. The comb police used to link Smith to the crime was labeled as a trial exhibit, and the comb in the evidence bag is not. Furthermore, they said the comb presented at trial should be sealed with other evidence and at the attorney general, not here. So it's a little bit interesting. The box also contained 23 numbered and dated notebooks prepared by the Holtz, one of the cops with the exception of number 13. They claim number 13 notebook covers a time period when Holtz was dealing with

jailhouse informant, Raymond Martre, who testified Smith killed the three. They say that they had long challenged whether there was a deal with this inmate to testify. They allege in the petition that the cop wrote in another notebook that this prisoner quoted smith as saying he did not kill reinard okay now this is getting a little bit weird here they said normally exculpatory evidence comes from the commonwealth this is the first time it came from a junk man on the way to the incinerator

because they pulled it out of some cop's attic while he moved or like died or some shit so the court then revisits the case obviously and uh they find out that holtz had been paid fifty thousand dollars by the author of this book and it's that's a big fucking thing there uh because they found the you know the money trail as that goes the supreme court ruling also cast aspersions on the prosecutor in the tape, Richard Guida, who had since resigned in disgrace after being incarcerated for cocaine distribution. During his trial, he admitted cocaine using cocaine while pursuing charges against Smith and his prior conduct was called into question. So they bring Smith in. So they bring Smith in. This carries out through 1992 when they find out that not only had the prosecution failed to try their case with integrity, utilizing testimony that was hearsay, but it actually withheld evidence from the trial that might have helped him. Number one, they withheld evidence that they believe that all the friends were down at the beach and they said that, quote, they found sand between the toes of Susan's fucking feet in the car.

What? They found sand when they did the autopsy. So finding sand at least gives reasonable doubt as to what the fuck is going on with Jay, at least. It makes Bill more guilty. Yeah. That's a way he could have had her. But it makes Jay way less guilty. So he ends up being let out of prison on grounds of prosecutorial misconduct. This son of a bitch.

Jay gets out. Yep. And finally, by the way, 1996, they've been fighting over the money forever in the will. 1996, they've been fighting over the money forever in the will. Finally, money's taken out of a bank account controlled by Bill Bradfield and his long-term love interest, Joanne Aitken, in 1996. Oh, my God. From 1983 there. Smith alleged that Wambaugh not only defamed him but conspired with law enforcement to frame him for three murders he was originally convicted of, calling him a goat-eyed sociopath.

So that lawsuit is gone in 1998, but then there's a lawsuit against Wambaugh, and Smith would end up trying to live his life in obscurity here. 1998, William Bradford Jr. dies in prison at 64. Yep, heart attack in prison. They found him unresponsive in his cell. Yeah. So there's that. Now, in his possession, though,

they found a photograph, which was found alongside some coded writings and other items, seemed to have been developed in 1986, years after his conviction, and appears to have been set in a wooded area. The photograph is centered around a very distinct-looking stone,

which may be a marker or not a marker. They don't know. They said you can see trees in the background, leaves on the ground surrounding the stone, which they believe could be the burial spot for Karen and Michael. Since their bodies haven't been found, it was theorized this could be a picture of a grave site, but he never explains it and he dies.

That would be the sickest shit on the planet. Yeah. He went to prison for murder and then kept a photograph of where he put them. That's disgusting. Wouldn't surprise me. Jay Smith gets married in 2002. What? He worked as a personal care home administrator, and then he retired.

He managed an adult daycare center. administrator and then he retired he managed a an adult daycare center he also wrote his own book entitled joseph wambaugh and the jay smith case uh in the jay smith case he wrote in january 2009 he said i wanted to make sure that if anybody ever studied wambaugh in the future they would find out what he wanted to do to me yeah so there's all of that like a chihuahua fuck me like a chihuahua like a fucking bag he paid a service eighteen hundred dollars to publish his book self-published shit yo it's a self-published yeah he didn't have a thing here um so they said that one student wrote a review and said that they attended upper mary Marion high school while he was principal and can attest to his Bihar bizarre, unsettling off putting presentation.

He said, he's a weird guy, but he said that Bradfield had a charismatic attraction to many students who I knew and considered intelligent and well-grounded and they still liked him. So it's one of those things. May 12th, 2009, Jay Smith dies of a heart problem.

You're months after his book is released. Perhaps it's just riddled with guilt and his heart just exploded. A Pennsylvania state trooper said, to wrap this up, I would certainly say there's a possibility of a third person out there, a probability. What? 2020, as of 2020, there was this article and they said they still don't know what the fuck happened. The kids have been missing for 40 years. Obviously, they've been killed and never found. One of the policemen said it's one of those cases that people just don't forget about.

The efforts made to find those kids was second to none and they were just never found. Hope springs eternal foreclosure for the family, but I just don't know whether they'll ever be found. What about Stephanie and Eddie? Did they ever find them? Never found Stephanie and Eddie. No trace of them. Fucking gone off the face of the earth. Never turned up again.

Those two fucks murdered people that they didn't want around. That's what they did. Exactly. That's exactly what happened. They had to. It has to be. There's no other solution. By the way, everybody can look into this.

It has to be. There's no other solution. By the way, everybody can look into this. There is so many trails of breadcrumbs, and you have no idea how hard this was to make this into a concise narrative because there's so much shit everywhere and evidence. It's over a 40-year period, for Christ's sake. It's all over the place. If you like that episode, you'll like anything that we do.

What a story, James. What a story. Get over to whatever app you're listening on i don't know just give us five stars it helps a lot write something nice about us it helps drive us up the charts help your boys out yeah shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all the bonus or no that's where you get tickets to live shows sorry chicago august asses in there chicago let's do this it's going to be our biggest show ever. Be a part of it. A Chicago-only live show. Shut up and give me murder.com.

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All of it. That's right, goddammit. This week is no different. What we have for you for crime and sports, we're going to talk about 1919 Black Sox, big scandal through the World Series, Mafia, lots of fun shit. And then we're going to talk about, for small town murder, some weird stories from the Titanic. Right. From survivors and some weird shit. A lady threw a baby in a garbage can.

We'll talk all about it. Tons of weird shit. And other sea mysteries we'll throw in there. A couple as well. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Before we do that, follow us on social media. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram and threads, I think, there.

And at Murder Small on Twitter. And at Small Town Pod on Facebook. We, I think, there. At Murder Small on Twitter and at Small Town Pod on Facebook. We're all over the place. That said, Jimmy, hit me with the list of the most wonderful people who would never, ever hold us hostage for days, beat us, and then inject us with a lethal dose of morphine. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Jordan Bennett. See you

in Denver, Jordan. See you there. Henri Rolfheimer McDougal, welcome to the shit show, little buddy. Well, thank you. Oh, wow. Congrats. Yeah. Congratulations.

Vanara Boone, I believe. I don't know. Maybe. Rad Barnert. Also, thank you all so much for being a part of this. Thank you. You're terrific. You're awesome.

Other producers this week are Gary Friedman. He'd like to start a fund to help edit Steve Williams' book or just correct poll to poll. There's a lot of typos. Yeah, there's some typos. And it's a good book otherwise, too. Also, Rabbi Shmulevich's pet spider, Mel, Edith Bunker, and Reverend Fletcher, who never got to consummate their friendship. It's Felcher, actually. Oh, yeah.

Apple doesn't like the word Felcher. would rather call him fletcher i think also because archie used to get it wrong oh really go i don't give a i don't care what his name is because he never went to church maybe archie's uh brain uh has the same same software as apple yeah he just never goes to church so they don't Same software as Apple. Yeah, he just never goes to church, so they don't. It was one of those. That's very reverent. Corporal Carl Kirshner and his to-do list longer than Toe Nash's dong, evidently. Oh, wow.

That's long. That's a big one. Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, and Eaton Regulars. Thank you guys all. Thank you. For being a part of this. Fucking rock. We also have Jessica Johnson, Molly Huff, Catherine Wickhage, I think, MK, Ultra, obviously,

Susan Kachina, Kachini, Kekchini. It's delicious noodles is what it is. Don Wildenstein, Danish, with no last name, Andrew McClure, Mac Barrera, Hunter Stanley, Gary Trabuco, Trabuco, Trabuco. Hey, Trabuco, get the fuck over here. What are you doing? Ripley Fellman, Matt with no last name, Michael Kaczynski, Lance Chaffee, Chaffee maybe, Beige

Angel, all those Beige Angels. All those Beige Babies. Ryan O'Connor, Benjamin Milbourne, Tauchia Blake, Tucha Blake, what is this? Bicious. Christina McLeod, Isaiah Hoffman, Margaret R., Peter Dunham, April Yulchafer. This is going to be long because there's so many. Corey Jassa Bruder, Nene Akpan, Bob C., Tassie Calvert, Aaron Brads, Kendo Slice, Tiffany Alston, Michael Davis, Eaton Beaver. All right. Daylon with no last name. Melissa Amon, Scott O'Brien, Amy Wood, Bill Rose, Dan Myers, Leanne Noralis, Lauren Richardson.

Richardson. It's the second time I've done that in my life. Richardson. I've got to stop that one. Adam Manuel, Tara C., all on accident. Ansley. Ainsley? Ansley.

Camille Collar with no last name. Wait, that is her last name. Josh Koch, or Coach maybe. Jason with no last name. Jenny, your co-host. Lance Vargas. Amber Deering. Amy Shanks.

Christopher Centurani. Yep. Caroline H. You got it. Carolyn, maybe. Michael Ashford. Damian Tony Jr. Alexandra Savory.

Victoria the Geeky Sandbox. Gabriel. Gabriela. Gabriela. Gabriela. Ah, Davila. Gabriela. Gabriela. Gabriela. Ah, Davila. Gabriela Richardson. Ferrarra.

We all know her, Richardson. John Hardy. Emily Scheider. Ooh, that's German for shit, isn't it? Bethany with no last name. Emily. Amy. Amy Deal.

Dustin is a jerk. Sam Toohey. Megan Dewberry. Amelie. Amelie. Amelie. Amelia. Jesus Christ. Amelia Kelly.

Wow. Impressive. I'm going to die. All right. Vanessa Martin. LD Care of Big Larry. Cheryl Shockey. Dylan Northrup.

Travis Davis. Katie Overturf. Ben Martin. Jennifer Provan, Ali Nanini, Danny Horton, Karen Stearns, Carrie Bucci, Samuel Bartek, Peter Kastania, Angelique Kigalar, Wilka Wilson, Julie Topin, yes castagna uh angelique kegel are oh boy wilka wilka wilson uh julie tupin topin maybe uh even oh boy even evocative evocative shane baby mona lisa vito uh tori rosenfeld kristin is what quick quad oh boy kristin is quadriplegious James, I don't know if you know that. Yeah. So dirty. Alex Castile, Tracy Lito, Seam Hang, Seam Hang. Taylor with no last name. Larry Bird's mustache. Courtney Yeager, Leslie Esquivel.

It's a terrible mustache. Blonde mustaches just don't work. Sorry. Mateus. So, Spurlash. Jessica Olin. Zachary Denniston. Abby Gualetto.

Gualotto. Gwilet. Oh, no. Jonathan Everett. Dylan Purcell. Jake Underwood. Sean Blevins. Lynn Lipford.

Paula Bradley. Kevin the Chihuahua. Jillian Georges. Gorgeous, Diane Booth, John Martin, Sig Sauer 229, Paul F., probably not Tompkins though, Julian Porbadink, Melissa, Mrs. Crum in Utah, Kayla maybe, Ross, Ashley Moore. Tracy with no last name. Matt Berry. Jackson Schmidt.

Megan Orchikowski. Brandon Viljigvijic. Diane with no last name. I'm not sure about that. No. David O. I'm not vetting shit on it. Bo with no last name.

Audrey Murphy. Paul Farrow. Mark with no last name. Michelle McKee. Miles with no last name. Magna Mobley, John Colley, Marion Strout-Orso, Aidan Snyder, Corey Jarrett,

Matthew DiRisio, Clarissa Martinez, Samuel Higgins, Brie Bullard, Katie Clark, Steve Stanford, Jordan Amy, Kevin Gray, Tina Esquibel, Jessica Allman, Miranda Williamson, Jeremy Armand, Stephen

McCarty, Anthony Fenn, Leslie with no last name, Maggie with no last name, Madden, Madden, Madden, Hillmeyer, Hillier, that one broke me, Stephanie Clark clark alex foster garrett garrett rudderforth uh devin dahlgren brandon philbrick david roman kara sam marissa high car dale with no last name malika nope clark what clark lock alf caitlin randell's preston with no last name kurt what is this van hook jordan addison alex ropes justin rockhold oh boy calvin little jessica smirga leo's jessica smirma dahlia yeah demario with no last name jill vise francesca mccutchen jack with no last name aaron schlack emilu porter candace with no last name toby brown kev with no last name. Alexis Brooks. Danny Shelton. Rebecca Underwood.

Chris M. Tannis-Sneddow. Melissa Incaravi? What? Incarvalia. Linda Odom. Oldham. Lorraine Murray. Haley Muir.

Zach. Nope. Susie. Betcher. Mark Griffin. That's your ass, Susie. Maddie Janot. Rebecca McIntyre, Robert Marinel, Cynthia Palmer, Aaron Kustuch, Mary Ambigola, Abimbola, Merodio, Bola. Am. Bim. Season. Uch is in there. Ab. M. Bola. Mero. Dayo.

John Spalding. Katani Ferrari. Audra Wajdi. What? Nikki Baker. RJ with no last name. Jackson Beasley. Gavis Holst.

Gavin Holzingdon. Jason Smizer. Flugan. What? Smitzer. Flugan. Yes. Awesome. Is that a real, Jason Smitzerflugen. What? Smitzerflugen? Yes. Awesome.

Is that a real word? Smitzerflugen? I fucking hope so. That's awesome. I ordered that once from a Wienerschnitzel. Can I get a Smitzerflugen? It was pretty good. Adele Martins, Jenna Running, Scott Slager, Mikkel Jeter, Chrissy McKinney, James Stapleton, Donald Monk, Deanna Johnson, Sarah Deasy, and Desiree Quezada, and obviously all of our patrons.

You guys are amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, so much from the bottom of our hearts. If you want to follow us, very easy to do that. Shut up and give me murder.com. The list is there. All the links. Follow us.

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