Small Town Murder - #407 - Attempted Threesomes, Russian Brides & Time Travel - Alsea, Oregon

Episode Date: July 27, 2023

This week, in Alsea, Oregon, a man who seems to charm everyone he comes in contact with, finds love in Russia, and quickly moves to bring her to the US for marriage. What she doesn't know, is that he's already involved in a very strange relationship with a married woman, living with this woman, and her husband. This all leads to pressure building to end one of these relationships. One of them does end, in terrible, and violent way! But did the killer act alone?? And can he time travel?Along the way, we find out that you can't build a house on a straight incline, that apparently men don't have to be handsome for pretty women to like them, and that now matter how badly that you want to, you won't be able to time travel to fix your murder!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Alsea, Oregon, open relationships, love triangles, and a would-be Russian bride lead to a terrible murder and a

choice between possible suspects. back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us. Jimmy's a little under the weather today, but that's alright. I don't care. That's a cough all over me, Jimmy.

It's alright. You're alright. He's got a little bit of a cold. A little head cold. I gotta do something. I gotta change my life. You know what? This show today will be the start of a new life for you today because we have a wild show for everyone out there and just insane stuff before we get started though just want to say head over to shut up and give me murder.com august 12th chicago

it's not too late get your tickets right now they're going real fast good seats are going extremely fast and this is our biggest show ever, everybody. Be a part of it, and we're just so excited. Thank you, Chicago. You've already made it the biggest show ever with your ticket sales, and it's only going to hopefully go up from there. So get in there. It's going to be a Chicago only live show as well, so you can

only see it in Chicago. One city only Chicago this year. Get them in there. Also, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Philly. A couple of tickets left. If you want to go to Philly, do it right now because they're selling. I know it's in, like, November, but sorry. That's how it goes.

So thank you, everyone, for buying those tickets. Patreon.com slash crimeandsports is where you get all the bonus materials. I'm telling you, anything, anybody $5 a month or month or above a cup of coffee a mere cup of coffee you is you can either get a cup of coffee or a huge back catalog of like 200 bonus episodes to binge on and new ones every other week that is well worth it and this week is no different what you're going to get for crime and sports which of course you'll have access to we're going to talk about the 1919 black Sox scandal. This is the White Sox throwing the World Series. There's gangsters involved. It's a lot of fun, good stuff.

And it fits in our theme for the Patreon this week, which is the 1910s here. Because we're also going to talk about, for small-town murder, weird Titanic stories. Oh, boy. A lady threw her baby in the garbage and then walked onto a lifeboat. That's a crazy story. Tons of stuff like that. Survivor accounts and weird stuff and other sea mysteries as well. And other also giant boat disasters.

Why not? Great. Let's talk about it. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show as well. Jimmy will mispronounce your name. He'd love to get it right, but let's face it. Good luck.

Not going to happen probably, but he's face it good luck it's not gonna happen probably but he's gonna try damn it i can vouch for him there so thank you for doing that everybody and uh before the disclaimer also just want to say your stupid opinions is coming everything's been cleared up the show is done it's all ready so there's like a feed thing and artwork that's done so that's all coming and it's coming very soon. We'll put it out on social media there. Can't wait. We're at Small Town Murder on Instagram.

You can follow us there and find everything. So do that. Can't wait for that. That said, disclaimer, this is a comedy show. It is. We are comedians.

That is true. So obviously there's going to be jokes about some weird, uncomfortable things, but that doesn't mean that it has to be distasteful. You know what I mean? We go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims families why is that james because we're assholes

yeah but we're not scumbags you know that where you have it there you have it so i think we're gonna have a good time for everybody that wants to hear it but if you think true crime and comedy should never ever go together we might not be for you if you think any jokes and the jokes aren't what you think they are it's not like oh then he cut her head off oh hilarious i brought that that's not the jokes that's not where the jokes come in the jokes come in when someone says hmm i think i can get away with murder and here's how i'll do it that's crazy and worthy of being made fun of so yeah things of that nature so for everybody that wants to hear a crazy story and just have a good time, I think it's time, everyone, to sit back. Here we go.

Let's clear the lungs. Everyone here, arms to the sky, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Here we go. Yeah, let's do that.

We are going to Alsea, Oregon. this, Jimmy. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Here we go. Yeah, let's do that. We are going to Alsea, Oregon. Oh, yeah. A-L-S-E-A, Oregon. Oh. I thought for sure it would be Alsea or something just to mess with me, but I looked up videos of local people doing things and they all say Alsea. So I'm like, okay. It's Al's Ocean, Jim. It's what it is.

It's all Al's. That's it. We're just here to see it. Hey, it's Al's Ocean, Jim. It's what it is. It's all Al's. That's it. We're just here to see it. Hey, it's Al's World. We're just living in it. So this is kind of western Oregon in the central region here. It's not even on the ocean? Not even on the ocean, no.

It's got some distance to the ocean. About an hour and ten minutes to Eugene, Oregon. Almost two hours to Portland. And five hours and 54 minutes to our last Oregon episode, which is all the way in eastern Oregon in La Grande. That was the projection transfer theory, which was bonkers. Almost as bonkers as the thing

that our murderer this week is trying to figure out. So almost as crazy, not quite. Al needs to keep walking his fat ass because we're not anywhere near the sea. No. You've stopped way too early. This is like area where you look at the land and you're like, wow, it's beautiful. I mean, it's mountainous and forests and streams and rivers.

And like, you know, if you want to go like steelhead trout fishing or whatever, it doesn't get any better than this. But to live, it's difficult, it seems like. We'll talk about it here. It's in benton county area code 541 history of this is the original lc settlement first appeared on a it was alcea at first with an a at the end and it was a l s e y a so it was just put a put a y between the e and the a first appeared on a general land office survey map in the late 1850s, and that showed that a few people from the east had moved out there and taken out donation land claims in the area.

So the government set aside land to say, if anybody wants this, you can have it. All you have to do is come here and prove it. Yeah, so there's a post office, a post office established in 1871. They had kind of a small, it was just a small ranch and farm community. Sure. It's very isolated.

Where do you hear how few people there are here? I mean, this place is super isolated. It's kind of distant without the railroad. Nobody would ever been able to get here back in the day. Yeah. But after highways came in and then there was trucks so they could haul logs and then there was foresting going on in here and all that sort of thing. After World War II, we built tons of houses in this country, which you needed a lot of lumber.

And this is where lumber's from, everybody. Yeah, this is where the brawny man lives in a tree in Alie, I believe, with his flannel shirt and everything. Very Twin Peaks. Totally. Several small sawmills operated in the valley, and then pretty much all of them had closed down by the 70s. That's a problem here. So the town, though, continued to prosper in the 80s. They did heavy harvesting on the forest around here.

But then after a while, environmental restrictions, because they were just taking it down with reckless abandon. I mean, there was no like now you have to like replace what you do. There's certain rules to it, you know, so we have any forest left. And whatever you think of like environmental rules, if we didn't have those particular ones in place, we would have no trees. We'd be naked. We literally would have very bar ones in place, we would have no trees. We'd be naked. We literally would have no trees. It'd be very barren.

Yeah, nothing. So there was a lot of spotted owl and other threatened species in this area. So very much curbed the timber in the area here as well. So the ranger station closed in 1996. They had to move like 100 workers to another Forest Service office. And it's not, it's a tough, it seems like it's a tough to live. It's tough to live here. You have to live here. You have to go here wanting exactly what's here kind of thing.

Yeah, if the Forest Service is leaving, what the fuck are you supposed to do? Yeah, they don't even have that. You're on your own even in the forest. So here's some reviews. These are for Benton County because this town is too small to review when you find out the population in a minute here. So here's two reviews for the whole county. Four stars. Here we go.

I enjoy being close to small cities but outside of the limits of any. Farmers markets are abundant in spring and summer. A few hang on through autumn. in spring and summer. A few hang on through autumn. Utilities are almost monopolized in each category, which leaves little to no choice if one wants to receive that particular service. Well, that's every city in America.

What do you want? That is every place in America. So what's the electric company, is what people say when they get there. There might be two. Like Phoenix, there's two, but you don't really, most places you don't have a choice.

It's just whatever area you're in is either this or this. There's one. Right. There's one – most places you don't have a choice. It's just whatever area you're in is either this or this. There's one. Right. Yeah. There's one. It's just where you happen to live. That's what services you.

Right. That's it. Yeah, there's two companies, but, yeah, they just split up the territory. That's like saying there's two drug dealers, but one has one corner, one has the other. It doesn't matter. You know what I mean? That's what it is. Just split the territory up.

It's still there. So that's kind of how it works everywhere, person. One star here. Okay. I left Corvallis in November 2020. What happened to Benton County management? Question mark. I don't know.

What happened indeed? Have they left? That's what they say here. Have they left? Police department is ridiculous. Let's find out how. All police officers are about 22 and rude this is a 50 year old woman it absolutely is i have kids your age listen yeah you don't tell

me what to do you do not tell me i will never again expect anything from them they not give you your christmas present like what are you what are you expecting from them? I can see why you would need a gun shop to open, but right across the street from a school slash health and mental care building? Probably not great placement for that. You can't have a strip club

within a certain distance of a school. How about a gun shop too? Maybe put that in there. I'd rather have my kids around tits any day of the week than a guy who can literally buy the gun and then walk directly across the street and shoot my kid he doesn't even have to walk he can do it from the parking lot across the street from right there yeah from the counter that's real nice yeah that's what the fuck i don't like that we have a school slash mental health facility well you know some of the kids are a little messed up when you hear again when you hear about

the populations of these towns, you go, oh, that makes sense. You have to combine buildings because there's just not enough people to have it all in one. Everything's a Taco Bell Pizza Hut? Everything's a Taco Bell Pizza Hut slash Long John Silver slash etc. etc.

A&W, yeah, slash Wienerschnitzel. So, people in this town 82 82 82 100 8 2 people people like way way like yeah less than 5% of what will be at our Chicago show. That's crazy. That's five families, right? If they're Italian, it's two families. I don't know. I don't know about other people's families.

Oh, can't wait to hear the breakdown of this. Yeah, that's what's fun. I love the stats in these towns with less than 100 people because it's a crapshoot. It's way off. Okay. It's 54% male, which is way out of whack. It's usually slightly more female. Median age is 26 and a half.

Again, way out of whack. Here's the chart. There is 0 to 4-year-olds, 11%. 5 to 9-year-olds, 21%. 10 to 14-year 12 there's not many 15 to 20 year olds and there's zero 21 to 24 year olds at all you they get the fuck out when they're 21 yeah then it jumps up to 20 for 25 to 34 it's all whacked out this chart nobody over 85 you don't survive here in the it's all small families and young families.

It's what it seems to be. Yeah. I don't know why because we'll talk about it. It's expensive to be here. So I don't know. Really? It doesn't really make a lot of sense. 69% married.

It's usually 50-50. Less than 10% divorced. 64% married with children. So that's a lot of people. Race in this town, 94.8% white. So pretty white is the Oregon mountains, as you might expect. 0.0% black, 0.0% Asian, 3.8% Hispanic. So, and then 1.4, two or more.

So that's not a lot here. Religion in this town, 26.4%. And it's spread out pretty good with some other christians a couple of uh mormons the mormons out of 82 people they found it still they were like i think there's a a couple dozen people we haven't talked to over that hill let's get over there 82 people over there i'll bet you we can turn them all that's impressive impressive, I've got to say. That's some drive they have there. A couple of Methodists, a Pentecostal or two. Last election in Benton County, 67.9% of the people voted Democratic, 28.2% voted Republican, 4.0% voted Independent. So the economy here, the unemployment rate's actually lower than the national average somehow i guess

there's only 82 people and what like 40 of them are kids so they don't need jobs you got a few old people there's like 30 people that need jobs here and so easy to handle it should be there should be something i figure you could do for them median household income here too is right at the national average 55 000 change so really and change. Really? Somehow, yeah. I figured it would be either very rich or super poor, kind of one of the two. No, it's the middle. Right at average. Cost of living, where $100,000 is average, regular.

Here, it's $88,000, so not too far. Median home costs, though, a little bit high. Median home costs $413,800. Holy. A little bit on the high side. So if we've convinced you, you know what? You're tired of civilization. You've had it with the conveniences of the modern world.

It's a real pain in the ass. Yeah. You are ready to step back into some sort of, it's like the town Kurt Russell lives in an overboard, but without the water. Like if you're ready to step into that, we have for you the Al C. Oregon Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,130 a month. Right about average. Right about average. Here's, there's not much available, by the way, as you probably can imagine here.

This is in the town of Alsea, in the area, I should say, of Alsea here. This is all that's available. There is 20.6 acres of unimproved land, is what it says. Unimproved. So that means it's just forest and it's going to stay forest. They made a point to say unimproved. So that means what? No grading, no evening out, no smoothing.

This is just the way it's been made. Since the river cut it, that's how it is. From the maker. I'll just read the thing here to you. This is a unique property with approximately 1,000 feet of Alsea River frontage. It's very steep. Let's just say that. It is so god damn, it's insanely

steep. Like, you couldn't walk down this hillside to get to the river. So you're saying the property you own is up a fucking mountain? Not up a mountain, it is the side of a mountain. Of a steep mountain that goes to the riverfront. You'd buy this just for a place to fish. There'd be no way to

build anything on it, you'd be sideways. It's's ridiculous it's a straight vertical mountain it's wild so they say it's prime it's a prime fishery with summer steelhead coho salmon and spring and fall chinook salmon and cutthroat trout that sounds awesome but yeah wow it says that nothing's going to be built on this though 275 000 for a nice fishing spot, basically, is what you're getting. Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,196-square-foot house. Small little house. It's on two acres. The outside, it looks kind of like a militia has meetings there or something. Like a militia's VFW hall is what it looks like from the outside.

But inside, it's kind of cool. It's got like a greenhouse and a garden in the back, too. The inside's all wood. It's kind of cool. It's not bad. $475,000 for that, though. Oh, my God. Two acres, by the way, not like it's on 50 acres.

Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,400 square foot on 2.66 acres. It looks very similar to the other one from the outside. Just that must be the design that they, the builder, the builder built there, but it's, there's no inside shot. So we have no idea what the inside's like. It could be all wood. It could be nothing. It could have stripped to the, to the studs. We have no clue what's on the inside. Something better be in there though because it's $529,000. Wow. If you're going to charge that much, I feel like there better be pictures of the inside because the

inside better be pretty spectacular for that kind of money. It's not like you're on a shitload of acreage. Right. That better be a real nice house inside. There's nothing around it at all. Jesus, you are far from a McDonald's. It's not easy. And you've only got two and a half acres, too. So it's not like it's

not like you get to go for a walk. Yeah. Yeah. Things to do here. OK. The Benton County Fair and Rodeo. Of course, they have combined the rodeo with the fair now. So, yeah, you don't have to go to two separate places anymore because everyone was like, Jesus Christ, I need to go to both, obviously. So, yeah, they call it a green oasis, this fairgrounds in Corvallis, Oregon. This isn't even here. It's in Corvallis, where Oregon State is. And they have the county fair and rodeo. The fair and rodeo includes games, rides, animals, food, music, the rodeo, of course.

Of course. And all the family fun you'd expect from your local fair. Oh, you bet. All sorts of shit that'll clog your arteries. We're going to have fried things that don't belong fried. We're going to do it all. It's going to be wonderful. Blue Ribbon Pig and everything.

Oh, boy. It features three action-packed nights of rodeo with cowboys and cowgirls competing for prize money, buckles, and bragging rights. We're getting buckles, too. Money, buckles, and bragging rights. Bitches, that's right. Free admission to all rodeos with a fair admission. Sure. You've got a rodeo pass if you get in there. It says also kicking off the fair on August 2nd is the Larry Bell Memorial All Girls Rodeo.

All girls, but also remember this guy's dad. I was going to say, Larry Bell sounds like a hot lady. Hot lady cowgirl right there, Larry Bell. Hey, Larry, come over here and show me your tits you don't hear that often come on in watch these chicks tits bounce while they ride the stangs yeah but also remember larry's dead well that's what larry was into that's why that's what larry liked more than anything was watching tits bounce on horses on horseback so that's they put this together for him it's really a it's very kind his children are

his children are you know don't forget about larry don't forget larry please for the love of god don't forget larry watch as cowgirls compete in barrel racing bull a pole bending goat tying breakaway roping and team roping of course right yeah because one-on-one you can only you don't stand a chance against that fucking animal right but you know what's better than one pair of tits james you got it two pairs of tits team tits team larry called it team tit roping that's what larry called it a different it's it was it's a different event than it used to be under larry's watch we'll say that much never forget him Larry. Never forget him. Wow.

It says a county fair wouldn't be complete without competition pies, quilts, paintings, flowers, and vegetables. Well, fuck yeah. I'm going to judge a quilt, or I want my money back. If no one's judging grandma's fucking craftsmanship, I want my money back now. This is ridiculous.

I need to see how big a corn Larry Bell's kids grow now. How big a fucking cucumber does the Smith family grow this year? So families can enjoy some old-fashioned backyard gaming, checkers, giant chess, badminton, and more. All shit you can do at your house is what they're saying. Let the little ones play with the giant waffle blocks or toddler puzzles on the colorful mats and child picnic tables. Jesus Christ, this sounds, this doesn't sound great at all. Then this year, the backyard, that's what they call it in capital letters, will be joined by Puzzle Mania, brother. Oh.

Puzzle Mania, brother. It's coming to Benton County, Oregon. That's right. Including brain teasers, jigsaw puzzles, tangrams, and geometric puzzles for all ages, brother. Brain teasers. Brain teaser mania, brother. It's coming. Yeah.

You can go to that, or you can go to the Corvallis Celtic Festival, which they have now. This year is the first Corvallis celtic festival which is being held oh this weekend it looks like right now right right now get out there if you're listening to this early especially get the hell out there no cover charge uh-huh not bad no cover charge what what do you get for no cover charge well you get you get a concert at common fields featuring fionn Gaw and after them, the Nettles will be on. Oh. Yeah. And there's also going to be raffles and, quote, a roaring good time.

I believe that. That's terrific. It's a Celtic festival. You're going to see a fist fight also. Oh, you know that's going to happen. Yeah. And Friday, the 21st in the evening, brings the Gothard Sisters to the First United Methodist Church. Oh, my God.

Oh. Wow. It's like Sister Act, I think. Yeah. This is going to be amazing. You can purchase a festival button for a $10 donation. There's also a bagpipers parade. Yep.

Got to have a bagpipers parade. Then everything from harps and fiddles to bagpipes, flutes, whistles, and singing will be represented. Fucking one Irish will give you Irish. We will give you Irish. Absolutely. And then also more musical performances starting at 10 a.m. to noon at the Old World Deli, which sounds very Irish. The Irish are known for their delis more than anything, really, right? I don't know.

Their food is definitely some of the best in Europe, right? No, absolutely not. I fucking love their food. They have shepherd's pie. Yeah. And? Corned beef and cabbage. That's not Irish, actually.

It's American Irish. Yeah, they don't make that over there. They have shepherd's pie and a bunch of shit that they boiled because they have famines for a while. I don't know. Famine countries aren't known for their cuisine usually that's that's the thing every irish i guess it's irish pubs that i go to every time i i go there i love the food that i get there that's just you just love chain bar food that's all you just love you just love frozen fish fillets and like you know cisco fucking

the truck comes up and brings French fries. A very chrome trailer shows up and delivers all the shit I eat. Yeah, I think so. Definitely. It's awesome. The Cisco trailer pulls up. And coupons for discounted room rates at motels also. So you got that.

Now, crime rate, what we're interested in here in this town property crime exactly average exactly really like just at average so that makes sense i don't know how there's 82 people how the fuck is crime happening bob did it done bob's off the street now what there's no more criminals good we're done just because we know them doesn't mean they won't do it you know that's what it is i think they think. They got some brazen motherfuckers in this town. That's possible, yeah. Also, when you mix the gun shop and the mental health center within the, who knows what could happen. They're within walking distance of each other.

Yeah, shit right across. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the national average. Okay. So safe. I don't know how it wouldn't be. Again, I really don't. So that said, let's talk about some murder, shall we?

Let's do that. Let's do this. Let's talk about a young man first. A big young man, first of all. And not young like a teenager. Young in his 20s. Big stocky guy. His name is, he's born november 11th 1989 so a young guy in our story

which takes place in the 2010s here in his 30s yeah yeah well he's in his 20s for the story now he's in his 30s yeah his name is william chase hargrove he goes by will hargrove and by the way billy hargrove is max's older brother on Stranger Things. That's the character's name. Oh, yeah, you're right. Which is interesting. Yeah. Which is, when you keep that in mind through this episode, it's kind of funny. I don't know why.

Just trust me on this one, all right? Go with me here. He lives in Oregon. He lives in Albany, for the most part, around here, which is around Corvallis and that area. He's got a friend and a roommate or a former roommate of his because we'll talk about his living arrangement because it is wild boy this yeah will lives a wild style kind of life like you you you couldn't live his life no when you're listening to it when i was you know reading about it i'm like how good lord this sounds stressful this just sounds like so

much will jesus christ how do you keep it together? I'm not cut out for Will's life? I don't think you are. You'd enjoy it for a week, and then you'd go, I can't anymore with these people. I can't. It's too much. Anybody would, okay? So a guy named Jamie Klotz, with a K and a Z.

Klotz. Oh. Here. That's his former friend and roommate. It's a terrible name. It really is. Klotz. K's his former friend and roommate. It's a terrible name, it really is. Klotz. K-L-O-T-Z.

Jamie says, quote, he and I had things in common. Cars. He worked on cars. I work on cars. I'm more Harry Potter. He's more the Avengers kind of, you know, genre. But we could nerd out on things like that. I't like that at all i'm more

of a harry potter guy whereas he's more of an avengers guy so you know as far as as far as you know immature masculine personalities like i'm like this kind and he's like a child like this and so yeah he he jerks off into a white tube sock i jerk off into one with yellow rings around the top he jerks off to hentai and i like i like more american drawn fucking pornographic cartoons you know what i mean i like cheerleaders yeah these are guys that don't jerk off to live people that's what that is it is sketches and things like that so yeah he said he actually took me to see my first avengers movie oh you always remember who takes you to see your first avengers movie you always remember your first time you know what i'm saying it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast

morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy

tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. Part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wond and the wondery app or on apple podcasts jamie says quote he was a likable guy you know a jokester okay he just liked to laugh and have fun i enjoyed being around him just laughing arm and arm coming out of an avengers movie just up together hell yeah i pictured Naked Gun because I watched that with my son a couple weeks ago because he never saw Naked Gun before. And he's discovering spoof movies, which is phenomenal. So Mel Brooks is coming next. But I figured he likes baseball. So then I'm like, OK, we'll get him into like Young Frankenstein and stuff like that. But Naked Gun he was interested in.

I showed him the trailer and he was like, OK, all right. I can get on board yeah remind me of him and uh leslie nielsen and was it priscilla presley is that the person there yeah i mix them up so nice beaver them nice beaver them uh skipping out of the movie theater laughing hysterically and they pan up to platoon is playing at the thing just dying laughing coming out of it. That's what I picture them. Entire wrong reaction. So put together.

It's great. Yeah. So, yeah, they said that he worked, meaning Will, he worked as a bouncer at the Peacock Bar and Grill in Corvallis. And then he ends up getting a new job stepping up here as a, well quote-unquote mechanic at Lassen Chevrolet and Toyota in Albany. And I say quote-unquote. He does oil changes is what he does. Okay. He's the lube guy.

It's technically a mechanic, but they call him a oil change technician. Yeah. He's moving one bolt and a filter, James. Yeah. There's a drain and a pour. There's a lot going on. He might not be the pour guy. There might be another guy pouring it in. We don't know.

We don't know if he can hack the pour. That could go either way there. So he works there. In his free time, he would meet up with his friends at the Peacock Bar and Grill where he used to work. Sure. Nice drinks, yeah. Hang out there. One of his buddies here, Joseph Thompson, he says this.

We would play pool over there on Sunday nights and just basically ended up hanging out a lot, doing karaoke. I don't know how many times him and me would be sitting there playing pool, and he'd just have women walk up from the bar, just sit there and talk to him. He was very charismatic. He had the personality, the presence. So that's what his friend the guy that wishes he was him evidently yeah and by the way i will say this about will will is not like a you know what you consider a traditionally handsome guy he's not like a you know he's like a square jaw he's he's like a kind of fat guy. He's kind of a big fat guy, kind of average looking, shaved head, kind of goatee, just nothing real special.

You'd see a million of him walking around. Yeah, 2017, 15, 16, 17. Yeah. He looks like everybody else. Dad bod trend is certainly come and gone. Oh, it's beyond dad bod. He's a fat fuck. Yeah, I can say that because he's a guy. He's a fat fuck, this guy. Yeah, he's not dad bod. He's a fat fuck. Oh, he's, oh. Yeah, no, he's. Yeah, I could say that because he's a guy.

He's a fat fuck, this guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's not a dad bod at all. It's like I haven't seen my dick in a while. He's a 22-year-old heavy fuck. Yeah, not like super giant, but like definitely big old gut on him, and he's a heavy set guy. Yeah, let's be honest. If we were sitting around, we'd go, look at this fat fuck.

You know, that's how it fuck. That's how it is. That's how guys talk about guys. But chicks are evidently into this for him. He's got personality. Yeah, I don't know if he's... Once he gets up there singing that karaoke, boy, it gets to them. They've got to get off the seat just to let the barstool dry out, and then they go over there and talk to him, you know?

Got to fan the barstool. You've got to... Let that leather lighten a little bit. to go over there and talk to him you know gotta fan the bars you gotta whoo yeah let me let that let that leather lighten a little bit can i get like three four bar napkins please thank you the four by fours they gotta sit on these jesus you put the bar you don't even want you to put the bar napkins on top to soak it up like a oil spill in the garage got Got him. Got him. So he also has a best friend who his best friend was in the army. And his best friend says he and Will talked about military stuff because Will said he was in the Marines. And this guy says he's in the army.

So they talk about being in the service and, you know, and all that kind of thing. And I guess Will tells this guy that while he was in the marines he was stationed in russia for a while oh will was yeah they have marines at the embassy and shit there so st petersburg or whatever yeah and that explains why he's into everything russian he's super into russian stuff there's there's certain classifications of guys by the way guys that are into certain things that there's a certain personality type dudes that only like Asian chicks. There's a certain personality type in that guys who are way into Russian stuff. That's another very, very distinct personality type, like Steven Seagal kind of a you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, there's certain guys that like they like this type of woman and they've like it's very weird and that's all they like you'll see it on like 90 day fiance where these guys are like obsessed with i need to find a russian woman and they're just obsessed with it when they treat it as like a fetish when it's a weird thing that's just yeah it's a fetish it's all they like that's all they like but i mean yeah on the other hand too i don't know if they want to maybe they have a fetish for fat bald american guys who the hell knows you know i have no idea that exists i guarantee it does it has to absolutely does there's a fetish for everything it's yeah that's on seinfeld they said it back in the day jerry said women whatever abnormality abnormalities guys have there's a group of women that are into it because it was about pig men existing and he goes there'll be a group of women going oh i just love that curly little tail it drives me crazy

it doesn't matter women are very forgiving they're nice they're nice beings and they're and men are just yeah we're pretty yeah like i don't care what you look like let me see your feet what where did that come from yeah what is that about so he ends up talking to a young lady in Russia who's his age as well. They're both 26 at the time here. And she lives in Moscow. And she's known. She's real smart, this girl, too. This is online?

This is online. Anna Alexeivna Repkina. So Anna Repkina. R-E-P-K-I-N-A. Anna Rapkina. Yeah. That's a good name. She's a cute blonde chick, too.

Hell yeah, she is. She's, you know, when you picture, like, what's a Russian girl look like, you picture, like, you know, either a 90-year-old woman with, like, a goiter sticking out of her neck and eight babushkas on, or, like attractive young blonde, like one of the two. And that lady used to look like that. Yeah, that's maybe. We don't know. We go, oof, I hope not.

So she's very smart. She's very sharp, everybody says, real sharp, and speaks multiple languages, number one, and all that. Helps a lot. Loves cats. Super into traveling, like to travel around Europe and that sort of shit. She has a job over there. She works for Ikea over there, not at the store, but in like an office.

She's like an Ikea business center. She ships the swords and whatever the fuck it's called. The Nordgen. The Nordgen. I feel like she does like, um, paperwork and, okay. You know, that sort of shit.

Like maybe in, uh, finances and that sort of stuff. I feel like that's what it is from the vibe I get here. Maybe she obtains the rivets. We don't know. We have no idea. And she,

a lot of people, she's very well liked. She's a, she's a smart, outgoing, funny, attractive 26 year old-old woman. So, yeah, people are going to like her.

You know what I mean? She had been going out with a woman for – or with a woman, with a man for seven years. And since she was – she's 26. Since she was a baby. A teenage relationship. Yeah. And they just had broken up. So she was online talking to people, looking for something, looking for people as one does, as people do.

So she was half looking for love, half just looking for maybe people to hang out with. So she joined some Russian social networking site to meet people. And she found a 26-year-old man in Oregon named Will. That's who she found here so that's they hook up for each you know start talking he's super into everything russian she's russian yeah they start out that bill yeah that's that they start chatting it up uh a lot over facebook a lot of facebook talking here okay then they started video and you know skype or FaceTime or whatever, WhatsApp or whatever the fuck. A lot of WhatsApp-ing going on.

WhatsApp is the main. Snapchat, probably. Yeah, that's another. But WhatsApp is big for international stuff. Like all of the, if you watch 90 Day Fiance, they all communicate through WhatsApp with their people. Okay. That's the biggest one internationally. So they're talking and going back and forth, and they start to like each other.

You know what I mean? They're starting to video with each other every day. And they found out they have a lot in common. Music, number one. She was super into music and liked to go to concerts, and he liked music and concerts, and they'd have discussions about bands and that sort of shit. Everybody says she has a real good sense of humor. She's pretty funny.

They'd send memes back and forth. And then she, you know, everybody said that's how she kind of got along with people, this sense of humor. She's good like that. So, yeah, she's doing well for herself over there. Everybody says active social life.

And also, her and her older brother did historical reconstructions as a hobby of russianship i don't know what that means historical reconstructions of things i don't know if it's a model you're building of something or like whatever it is it's a hobby that she did you know with her brother too so that sounds wholesome whose hobby is diorama i don't know historical reef you know reproductions with her reconstructions with her brother seems wholesome anyway yeah unless they're fingering each other or something right while they're doing it i feel like it's

fascinating to be in like a michael's being like where are all the foam balls i'd like to make a solar system oh yeah what grade are you in oh i'm 40 when's your son's when's your son or daughter's project do oh i don't have kids this is just for my house i'm gonna hang it in the living room oh well yeah i don't know what else to buy for i went to ikea i couldn't find anything there they were all out of norgens so i'm here now so i'm gonna put up in my living room one of those spots donor, but, you know, all out. Oh, man. So Anna's mom is very against her daughter, like, talking to people from other continents. Why are you doing that? For what? For what reason?

Which sounds very much like something my grandmother would say. For what reason do you want to talk to them for? Why? She's going to ask for your bank account. What are you doing? Yeah. So she can get the green card. It's like, yeah, like, where, what are you?

You know what I mean? What are you talking about? How'd you get here? Yeah, how'd you get here? So she did all of that. Her mother said, quote, I thought she was rushing things a little bit. Thought she was rushing things. Boom.

So messages here. Yeah, she nailed it. Here's a, I love when we have actual messages that people send back and forth to each other because best it's the best because you never expect the dumb shit you say in a text message years ago to be read aloud by two idiots on a podcast you never expect that do you either of them wanted this no no one knew this was gonna happen someday this is impossible to say so it makes it really fucking wild they exchange thousands of messages obviously and will here's one they go back and forth on facebook will listen to how

much he's trying to get turn shit to a sexual manner it's hilarious okay this is such a dude talking to a chick being like yeah let's fucking yeah get dirty okay quote you are absolutely amazing okay next message we are going to have hold on one two three four we are going to have so with four o's much fun together yep okay she replies with a smiley face and then her next message is true with a half parentheses you know smiley face yeah true okay so then will says quote daydreaming yet uh-huh see that wow that's i hate to do this to people but next time you're texting in a in an amorous way you're going to be going jesus i hope this doesn't get read aloud on a podcast someday.

Anybody to read this aloud. I don't even want to read it aloud. I don't want to read it aloud. I'm going to delete this when we're done here. So Anna says, quote, yes, it's wonderful. And Will says, tell me, question mark. I want to read it. I want to read you saying some dirty shit about what you want to do to my fucking McDonald's greased fat American body. What do you want to do to it?

So Anna says this, and she's such, this is a very not what he wanted. He wanted like, well, I want you to take your dick and stick it in my, you know. I'm on my knees servicing you. Yeah, but more graphic. Yeah. She says, quote, difficult to imagine, but it should be very romantic and beautiful, which is the hard fucking break slam. Hard break slam for, he had his dick in his hand and she's like, he's like romantic and

that's not what I want to jerk it to, no. I want something dirty. Yeah. I want something dirty. Yeah. I want it dirty with no love. No emotion. Nothing. Just filthy. Look at me with your cold, dead Russian eyes and fucking tell me something.

Tell me. Tell me you want it. Say fuck me harder in Russian, however that goes. Oh, there's some weird shit with his Russian coming up here. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. So, oh, man. His response to should be very romantic and beautiful is, quote, this is so cheese dick, Will.

Snow-covered evergreens. Snow on the ground. A tent hidden slightly in the trees out of our clearing. A good-sized fire roaring in you and my arms. Eggplant emoji. Yeah, pow. And then i slapped the dick down on you boom so that's that's just a sample of their back and forth okay obviously both parties are yes into this it's not like him going oh i want to fuck you and she's like so you know what's

what's your house like and it's not like that it's very obvious that he's, like, leaning it in her. Ball's in her court. Like, I'll let you guide this. I'll be filthy if you want. I want to be filthy. Yeah, I'm open. I want to be disgusting. My dick is in my hand, like I said.

But I'll be a gentleman if that's what you need. I'll stop stroking if you'd like me to is what I'm getting at. I'll just hold it. But it's going to stay in my hand. That's one thing I can't help. It's going to Mormon soak in the palm of my hand. Yep, just holding on to it. So December of 2016, they decide that Anna's going to come to Oregon for a good chunk of December to spend the holidays with Will in Oregon and

see if it's the same once they meet up in real life. That's awesome. Which is a great idea because this, a lot of, if you watch again, I'm going to keep referring to 90 Day Fiance because with Sarah, we've watched so much of it that I know a lot about the process of how you come to the country and what kind of the K-1 visa and all that kind of shit. So you really get an in-depth deal on that. So a lot of these people don't do this.

They talk online, talk online, and then they're like, he's going to be here. And then they just show up and now they live together. And it's like, you've never met this person and now they live at your house? That's fucking bonkers. And now we're going to get married. Yeah, no visits. You see that a lot like there's very few visits especially over like covid and over and kind of after 2016 when they changed the immigration laws

too it was harder for them to come here so it was you know turned into a hard thing and and they're doing this with somebody from another country i wouldn't do that with you know i mean i wouldn't rush somebody here from from fucking new mexico, you wouldn't do it from Mesa. Never mind. Fucking Chandler. I wouldn't rush them to my house from fucking Scottsdale. No. That's crazy. Let's meet up here.

This is from another country. It happens all the time, too. So December of 2016 is when she's coming. She's going to do this and see how it goes. So she arrives inica and signs of trouble right from the start especially because she got her flights she's going to fly into portland obviously you know corvallis is probably a small little airport or something the problem is there are multiple portlands in this country and if you're not from this country you have no idea

of that no fucking way you just type in portland and then the first portland that comes up you go that's where i'm going port she flew to fucking maine she flew to portland maine amazing she flew to portland maine and then was stuck there because she had to get another flight and shit yeah there's she's just sitting in portland maine and she doesn't know anybody in portland maine it's not like she can go she can go hole up at someone's house for a while. Unreal. So she's stuck. Here's messages.

And Will's a fucking moron, too, by the way. Quote, here's Anna on a Facebook message to Will. Who knows you have two damn Portlands? Which is hilarious. Because a foreigner shouldn't know that. They shouldn't. I don't know how many. There could be 12 St. Petersburgs in Russia for all I fucking know. I don't know that much Russian geography to know that they shouldn't i don't know how many there could be 12 saint petersburg's in russia for all i fucking know i don't know that much russian geography to know that what asshole

gets the itinerary for her and doesn't say uh babe that says portland maine who doesn't know that well a guy that answers in his facebook message with quote, I didn't even know that. That's who. A fucking dummy. A dummy answers that. This idiot. I knew that was going to get you. He had no fucking clue. No idea.

It's fucking crazy. Honestly, I didn't even know when I lived here. I'm dumb as shit. And I live in one of the Portlands. No one else. You'd figure if anyone in this country should know there's two Portlands, it's anyone who lives anywhere near either of those Portlands. Because you'd say, oh, yeah, isn't the only Portland and blah, blah, blah. There's another on the other side of the country.

If you live in Miami, Ohio or Miami, Arizona, you go, yeah, there's another Miami. You know that, right? It's in Florida. It's pretty big. You talk about it. Yeah right? It's in Florida. It's pretty big. You talk about it. Yeah. Somebody would bring it up. Pretty popular.

It would come up. Just the mistakes and, you know, somebody mixed it up before. I don't understand it. So while all of this and she's trying to get a flight to Portland, Oregon from Portland, Maine, all this is going on. They're exchanging messages again. And Will says on Facebook, because she got her flight all straightened down she's gonna take off and he says quote that's where you belong baby in the clouds my angel oh god jesus will you cheese dick son of a bitch laying it on thick oh man it is so thick it's like a like you let a four-year-old make his own peanut butter sandwich and he just put half the jar on.

That poor girl flew five hours out of the way. For no reason. She passed Portland, Oregon going there. Would you come from the West if you're coming from Moscow? Or would you go to New York? You'd have to, right? Or would you come in that way? You'd have to go over Alaska, right?

Otherwise, you're going all the way over europe right russia's humongous if it's in if she's in western russia it would be quicker to go great point i don't know where the fuck is enormous and then yeah i don't know i've had any idea which way you'd fly either way she flew the wrong fucking way so she went too far either way too far in the wrong direction so you're my angel she says be ready i will cry oh oh that's sweet and yeah and he's he's like damn it how do i get this around to my dick though she's talking about emotions all the time and romance great it's good for a lube perfect yeah will then says when when i propose to you oh boy? Oh, boy. And she says, when I see you. Oh.

Okay. It could be, that could be confusing, though, if you're a heavyset guy. If a girl starts crying on site. Yeah. Is this good or bad? Fucking say it. We've been on video every day. What the fuck?

So she eventually gets to Portland, finally. And they're very happy to see each other and she's posting shit on social media the trips to the coast and will's car and you know all sorts of shit like that i'm in america look i'm in this place that's not home people do when they go on vacation so yep as the trip is coming to an end and we'll talk more about the trip but toward the end of the trip he decides that he is going to propose to her okay he's going to propose to her and um she's going back home after 10 days the holidays and everything and he gives her an engagement ring and says, I'd like you to marry me and go home, pack your shit up, and get your ass back here as soon as possible.

ASAP, you in Portland, Oregon this time. She accepts the proposal. She couldn't be happier. He's even better in real life than she had hoped for over online. For him, too, she's even better than he could have hoped for they can't wait they're gonna get married super jacked up about it okay so she goes back home she's all excited about the wedding talking to her friends she's talking about different styles of dresses and what she really wanted and can she make this dress and take this part off of it and

you know she's getting the bullshit yeah getting ready for a wedding uh there's a problem though that she has no idea about here what's this is this is idyllic it's storybook really i mean they meet online she comes over here it's beautiful they're gonna get married it's will is a wonderful wonderful man isn't he isn't he terrific seems seems to be doing great well you know who else thinks that he's a terrific guy is Who? There's a 33-year-old woman named Michelle Chavez. She also thinks that Will's pretty terrific because they're having a little bit of a thing here, as we'll talk about. Oh, boy. Kind of more than a little bit of a thing. Let's get into it.

Okay. Are they married? They're not married. Don't worry. But she is. This is where the story gets weird, Jimmy. Oh, that's just the first what the fuck wait till you hear more what the fucks after this oh boy this is gonna i'm gonna build you a what the

fuck mountain right now bake this what the fuck it is a huge fucking you gotta put the what the fuck meringue on top of it and really have the points that's important we'll enter it in the benton state fair let's do it i think we can win here because whoa if there's a if there is a category for fuck pies this is the one so michelle is living with her husband and two children okay in albany oregon but her husband is not this marriage is not working out okay he. He, she says, Michelle, quote, our relationship, meaning her and her husband's at that point in time really wasn't one. It was like roommates that just happened to be married, slept in the same bed. But that was about it. Didn't really talk.

Sounds like a line that dudes give ladies. Yeah. I sleep in the same bed, but, you know, we're just friends. Yeah. It's it turns out, out though that it's actually kind of true here um so she said she's just trapped in this loveless marriage he's an oregon state university professor her husband and she goes to him and says listen obviously we have two kids we have this marriage and everything like that but we're not like physical we're not you know we don't really have that kind of relationship so she talked to him and said well tell you what if

we'll stay in this marriage if i'm allowed to you know have affairs with men oh for to fill my emotional and physical voids in my life and then you know i'll come home and then we'll just pretend it didn't happen. Very mature. I suppose so. Is that mature? That's not mature. If you're trying to keep your financial stability and well-being intact, yeah, that's very mature. Band-Aid, rip it off. One motion. Get the fuck out of here.

You're not wrong, but a lot of people do this. Let the air leak out of the balloon slowly or just come on. What are we talking about? So she says. Just says stop on it. Stop on it, man. This is weird. Otherwise, it's just too weird. The whole thing.

It's just too weird. He she Michelle says that she told her husband, quote, I love you. But if you can't give this to me, I'll have to go find it somewhere else. So she gave him an ultimatum. Let me fuck guys or else i'm leaving you well the point is i have sexual needs because i'm a human being so we either have to have sex or i'm gonna go get it elsewhere or we just fucking dissolve this thing yeah why why number one why didn't he just plow his wife number one right there's the real answer

there's one thing if he wanted to be married to her why and he just fuck his wife and number two imagine this coming from the other side and go and listen not working out there's a couple of hot chicks in one of my classes at osu and i think um i don't know i think i think i'm catching a vibe is all i'm saying from these chicks so maybe here are your options yeah he'd be wearing his fucking forget about he'd be wearing his nutsack stretched out like a hat over his head like a bald cap on his way out the door with nothing else nothing else yeah oh boy okay stumbling out yeah so which and it would be understandable yeah yeah so she Yeah. Yeah. So she ends up, Michelle was working as a cab driver in 2015. Okay. 2015 cab driver.

Really? That is the tail end of cab driver here. It's almost over, dear. You see cab drivers now. No one who's been in the country for more than three weeks is a cab driver now. They don't, that's, you know, you're only doing that because you don't speak good enough English to be an Uber driver. They don't. That's. Yeah. You know, you're only doing that because you don't speak good enough English to be an Uber driver. That's it is nice to leave an airport and see zero cabs sitting. Yeah.

That's awesome. You still see a bunch of New York, but they're sitting there a while. They're waiting. Yeah, they're waiting for a long time. So this relationship is going on. And Michelle said it was kind of a slow time in the summer, and I was waiting at the bar, the Peacock Bar and Grill, for people to call or to go pick people up or for drunk people there to need rides or whatever, however it goes. So she was asked, what was your first impression of Will? And her answer, quote, God, he's short. Oh, you bitch. Will is quite short. Really? Yeah, Will is quite short that's the thing yeah will is quite short that's that's uh

everybody on site that's the very first thing everybody notices that yeah will is uh yeah quite short i think he's like five seven five six maybe i think he's five six actually i think he's a yeah pretty short little yeah it's it's little so it's noticeable to where she was like god he's short not just like you know i got to know him and then he's a little short, but that's fine. Like right away, it was like, holy shit, look at this sawed off motherfucker. Like it's a lot. Five, eight. I'm very lucky to be five.

Because in a crowd like five, eight passes because here's don't laugh yet. He thinks if he says that over and over, he'll actually be five, eight someday, which he's not. By the way, I'm five, eight'8 someday, which he's not, by the way. I'm 5'8 as well. I assure you he's not 5'8. The thing is, when you walk through a crowd at 5'8, there are women that are a little bit shorter than you by like an inch. Do you know what I mean? So like you blend in with people. At 5'6, you are below everyone.

I mean, there's a lot of girls that are taller than that but there's and there's a lot that are much shorter but yeah you know five five six doesn't blend average woman's five five you throw some heels on that yeah you're looking up you're in trouble five five yeah that's in a bar you're in trouble that's tough no that that dude that is tough no you're you're a fine height you're your isn't a problem. 5'8 is fine. And when I wear my lifts, it's not so bad. I don't wear lifts, I swear. I know. That's why it was so funny.

You caught me completely off guard with that. That was hilarious. So, wow. So here's Michelle. She likes Will also. God, he's short. And she said, yeah, that's what she thought. will also god he's short and uh she said yeah that's what she thought she said he's short yeah and then this is her quote yes that's what i thought god he's short yeah he is short that's her quote he's fucking short but if you're short and a little

pudgy you have to have some game and according to michelle quote he made you feel like you were the son when he talked to you huh he had a way of being able to look at me and i felt like i was actually seen i felt beautiful i felt like i was wanted there is that yeah he knows how to talk to a lady that's all it is he knows how to go you tell me about your day and you know what i mean if you're in some marriage where no one talks to you and no one cares and right makes you feel sexy or whatever the fuck it is easy yeah yeah so uh they at that point they start hooking up oh and you know that sort of thing yeah i felt beautiful i felt wanted they start hooking up now they're not you know they're they're fucking now they're not just friends oh boy michelle's husband his name is raleigh green this poor guy jesus he said yeah around 2014 their

marriage became passionless he said it was around the time their son was born a marriage became it just it all died out he said that they were essentially roommates so he said the same thing this wasn't michelle making up a story this was. And he said that she told him that, yeah, she wanted to seek sexual intimacy outside the marriage. He said he objected in his mind, but he didn't make his feelings about it too clear because he thought obviously she would just leave then. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit,

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Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

So he said he wasn't aware that his wife was having a relationship with Will until well after it was even over. And that's when Michelle told him about it. Early 2017 is when the husband finds out. Okay. Just keep that in mind when we husband finds out. Okay. Just keep that in mind when we go forward here. So Michelle, she talks about the relationship with Will and says, quote,

it wasn't a plan thing. It wasn't like it went off in my head and I was like, I'm going to have a relationship with him. It just progressed that way. Well, yeah. Also you're in an open marriage, so you have a hammer,

you're looking for nails. You know what I mean? Sorry, but that's life, you know? It's just what human nature. So you have a hammer. You're looking for nails. You know what I mean? Sorry, but that's life. You know? Yeah. It's just what human nature. If you have a hammer, you look for nails, period.

And she's goes with everything. Yeah. But no, no. She's also got a very small pool of men that are going to be willing to do this with her. That's the other thing. She's got a she's got a unfortunately, there's a lot of men who'd be like yeah throw one at you i don't care but you know there are you know there are you know what i mean she's attractive too she's not you know she's an attractive lady so it's not like she's i i think the trouble is going to be smaller just because there's a lot of there's a lot of people

that say that they're okay with this shit and then they're fucking not and then you've got a problem it's a little weird. Yeah. So now Jamie Klotz, back to Jamie, because he knows Will and Michelle. He's friends with both of them. Oh. He said he was willing to give her what she needed, affection and attention. Okay. So they became, you know, started hooking up. And there's an open relationship, like we said.

And, you know, everything like that so there i don't know if the husband what he's doing michelle's husband but it really doesn't matter but over 2016 this relationship grows to the point of here we go jimmy let's stack another another rock on will moves into their house wait yes yes she brought she brought her side dick into the house and moved him in in a spare bedroom they have two kids oh no they have two fucking kids that's what i mean this whole thing it's fine if it's like oh open a little once you have two kids and you're moving another guy into the house and then now it getting weird. Now it's like starting to... If once a week mom leaves the house and says she's going to... No one cares.

That's not anybody's business. Going to happy hour with her friends, the kids would never notice. But you bring this guy in, there's an extra man in the house. That's what I mean. Uncle Will is... I saw... Yeah, it's too much. You don't want your kids seeing weird stuff.

So that's what's going on here it's she he rents the spare bedroom in her house and her kids live there the husband lives there it's the whole deal according to Raleigh he didn't know that they were fucking still during while they were living there really yeah

he only paid rent quote sporadically as well so he didn't even have to, like, pay rent. He moved this into this guy's life. He moves into a rent-free situation to plow someone's wife who he doesn't have to, like, have a relationship really with because she's in a marriage over here, too. He's just going to, you know. What a crazy, weird life for this guy. Like, wow.

Holy. At 26, there's a lot of people who go, yeah, that's not bad. I'll give that a shot. That's all right. See how long that works out. You know. And in addition to that, Michelle sometimes helped him by paying his bills for him, too. How good is his dick?

He must really make you feel good. You know what I mean? He's amazing. Talk about making you feel like you're what i mean like amazing talk about making you feel like you're the son holy shit like this is this is another level of that she even gave him 500 toward the purchase of for the down payment on a used car and co-signed a car loan for him too how many shifts of cab cabbing is that 500 wow well her husband's a professor and so I don't know if they have a couple of bucks put aside or what, but

she said that they sometimes had sex at the house. Sometimes, but more often the way she put it, to spare her husband's feelings, you know. We sometimes fucked on his fucking couch in front of him, but sometimes I took

pity on him she said other times they'd go to motels quote that i paid for michelle says of course yeah that's wild she said that during the relationship okay their sexual relationship also an interesting one um she is the definitely the subservient one here she is the submissive and he is certainly quite dominant as she has to call him either master or sir while they're fucking oh boy and he calls her mishka the russian because he had to have some weird russian thing in there calls her a russian doll doll. Calls her a Russian, exactly. Wow.

And she's got to call him master. Master or sir. Whose choices were, this is fucking fascinating. Whose choices do you think it was? Yeah, they're his. It's his. This is his weird thing here. So she said that, you know, all he had to pay for was his own food,

unless he liked whatever they were having for dinner, and then he would move in, he would just eat with them. sit at the end of the table yeah that's the court wow that is crazy shit she said quote honestly pretty sweet deal for him yeah i would say it's not bad for anybody will then michelle takes it a step further by removing her wedding ring and giving it to will a la judd nelson in the breakfast club getting the time yeah molly ringwald but this means more because this wedding ring is a promise that she is going to leave her husband soon to be with him full time okay okay now meanwhile he is trolling russian dating sites picking up girls girls named Anna and then pouring them over there. It gets weirder. Want it to get weirder? It'll get weirder.

Think this story is already weird, Jimmy? No, this is just the graham cracker crust of it. This is the graham. You got it, boy. This is fucked up. So, okay. Now, she said that when she found out, because Will told her about Anna, because Anna was coming to visit and he lives there. So he had to tell Michelle about Anna coming. How did she take it? Well, this is what he told her. He didn't say, look, this has been fun and all,

but I found someone that's not married that I'm in a serious relationship with. My cousin's coming from Russia. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He took it. That would even be ballsy, but he took it to the next insanely ballsy level, this guy. Talk about charisma. He said, listen, this Anna girl, she's not here to replace you. She is coming as an, quote, addition to our relationship.

I'm adding her to the mix. So you know how we have a third situation here but he won't he won't participate i really want it so i got us one i got a third now i'll plow her and then she can like join us or whatever and we can just have like a you know this is like a little relationship where i fuck a russian girl and this other chick and you know i that's it they pay my bills and that's my life now and michelle all i gotta do is tell anna about it someday and michelle went sounds good get the fuck out of god she said great that sounds awesome cool we could use a third that's what she said also she just kind of got a taste of her own

medicine there she she can't say no no how could she say no? Well, she has given him a wedding ring to say that I'm going to leave my husband for you. Yeah. You know? He could offer that someday, too, later down the road. But instead, he decides that I'm going to add a third party to this. And she's like, fucking right on, brah. Dope. Wow.

Yeah. Gave you the little hang ten sign there. Yeah. How do you get this done? Well, you got to have game to do this, first of all. And this has to be the right person. So not only is she going to come over and be a third, but he says, can she stay at the house while she comes for this visit over Christmas and New Year's? And Michelle said, of course she can.

More than tell her to come on over. So there's no interaction between the three of them on this trip as far as that goes. Because, you know, this is the initial. Oh, we got to warm Anna up. We got to warm Anna up to this idea. So the two of them, meaning Anna and Will, once Anna gets here, they stay in Will's room throughout the visit. They just like hole up in there and don't really come out. She says that she only saw them once the whole time they were there really michelle only saw the two of them once and that was when

they bumped into her and her husband unexpectedly they were walking through the house wasn't even on purpose it wasn't an introduction nope so they said that yeah they were this is fucking crazy so the other thing is that will while this is is an open, quote unquote, open relationship and he can bring thirds in and stuff, he expected, he absolutely expected Michelle to be emotionally committed to him. Uh-huh. And she expected him to, you know, be emotionally committed to her and he can just just, you know, he's only going to he's only using other women for sex. That's just right. It's just their body. Yeah.

Yeah, that's fine. So and he would like play them off each other, too. He would tell them both he was in love with them and he would tell the other one that, you know, he told like he he told later on he'll tell Anna. He'll tell Michelle that Anna is kind of crazy. And then he'll tell Anna that Michelle is his, quote, crazy ex-girlfriend. You know, he'll go back and forth and all that kind of thing. Oh, one other weird thing that he did. Remember how he proposed to her?

Yeah. And gave her a ring? Yeah. What ring you think he gave her? No fucking way. He gave Anna Michelle's ring. ring he she gave him as a promise to leave her yeah oh my god gave so fuck shit to anna and said it was his grandmother's ring and it was very sentimental to him that's the other part that kills me this is my grandmother's

ring it's been in my family it's i've been waiting my whole life for the right girl to give this to he is the walking meme of the if men have anything it's the audacity he is it he is the one wild man the nerve of this fucking guy it's incredible and it's working that's the scary part that's the fucking thing this is working this shit is happening right now yeah wow so he so he's on why is he online dating when he's in a relationship that would be a good thing with michelle well jamie klotz has an answer for you what's he says jamie says i think that it had to do with jealousy michelle was going to leave her husband on her terms and it wasn't going fast enough if he could make her jealous then maybe it would speed things up which is why jamie thinks that he imported anna over christmas so to stay in the house so it'd be

like look at me i have a girl here that's yeah you better get off your shit and come on and hurry up meanwhile no that's not what's going on yeah and nobody tells anna about michelle by the way she has she doesn't know she's in a threesome now she has no idea that she's in a polygamous relationship no fucking clue in the world or throuple would be more accurate because that's what they're talking about more than us more than a sisterwife situation like you want to comment on how incredibly unhealthy it is to manipulate somebody like that but how do you because this whole fucking thing i wouldn't even know where to start to unravel it because how the fuck do you even i don't know how the hell you do it is a big mac meal biggie sized huge completely supersized old school yeah old school so you were going wendy's on me there

right now i did combine two different chains this is a uh a dave's old-fashioned um supersize give me the double whopper so anna knows nothing about that right michelle says says about the Anna visit, quote, they were in his room most of the time. On New Year's Eve, they were getting ready to go out. Will was like, oh, maybe I should introduce you guys. You know, since we're going to be a thruffle soon, maybe I should at least. Yeah. So you're going to be fighting over bathroom time and my dick.

Both of those. Yeah. And quote, and she shook my hand and said her name was Anna. I said it was nice to meet her. She said she introduced herself as Anna. She shook my hand. She shook my husband's hand. That was the only time I ever laid eyes on her.

Wow. Okay. So Anna goes back to Russia with a ring on her finger. And a plan. And a plan to return. Absolutely. So they keep talking about over this now they're they're talking about you know will is telling michelle that anna's going to come back sure and this is how we're gonna we'll incorporate her in our relationship this

way i'll call her this while we're having sex and i'll call you that and whatever i don't know whatever weird shit he was talking about at one one point, Michelle says, great, this is perfect. I'm going to leave my husband once Anna gets here, and the three of us and my two kids will all move in together. The professor's going to lose his kids too? He's going to lose his kids while his wife goes to a thruple fuck house. I don't know what's happening. Yeah.

So that's what she said. That's going to totally happen. It's going to be awesome. She said, I even have an apartment because my mother and sister are moving out of this apartment. It's going to be the perfect timing. We can all move right in. No problem. Hey, problem solved.

Done. He said, great. Sounds like a plan. Then while Anna was there, Michelle said she got, quote, a little nosy. Michelle did or Anna did? Michelle did. Michelle did. And checked the messages on Will's phone just to see what he was talking about.

There you go. Including she found one that was to Anna saying that Will wanted to marry anna so michelle's like hold on a minute here that wasn't part of the plan she's going to be our third i'm not your third that's not how this can only marry one yeah this is no no no i'm bottom i'm the highlander yeah bottom bitch here that's how this works yeah so that's pretty wild confronted with this, he said that he didn't mean it. I didn't mean it, but it was just it was too late. She said that he said that was before and I didn't mean it because then there was too late to call off this holiday visit with Anna. So I figured I'd just let it play out and, you know, make her think that everything was fine. You know, it's all good, though. It's all good. You know, make her think that everything was fine. You know, it's all good, though. It's all good.

So after Anna goes back to Russia, Michelle and Will continue their sexual relationship, obviously. Sure, as you do. But as one does. Then she found another message on his phone saying that Anna was coming back in March. Okay. Now he's got problems here. Okay. Now she's like, hold on, March, you said this. And there's, you know, you said you two are going to move together in this message.

But then I thought the three of us were going to move in together. What the fuck? And he's lying to everybody and starting to crack a little bit here. So except for Anna, nothing's cracked with her. She thinks she has a dream come true here. She's happy as can be. Poor Anna. Yeah, no shit.

come true here. She's happy as can be. Poor Anna. Yeah, no shit. So, Michelle, once she heard Anna was coming back, because Anna's supposed to be back on like March 1st or some shit, so... So soon. So soon. March 1st, 2017. Once Michelle hears that, she

says, quote, I was like, well, she's not staying here. She's not staying in my house. Right. I'm not going to pay for this. Not going to do that. So Will and Anna rent an apartment in Corvallis. Oh, don't worry about it. I got this handled. I'll rent an apartment.

No worries. I've been saving so much money living here. You know what? Thank you, because I don't even have to pay for food. It's awesome. It's great. Don't have to go out looking for women, because I got you right here. It's just wonderful.

So Will is working. Anna doesn't have a job job because I don't think you can get a job when you first move here. There has to be, you have to be here. There's all kinds of, yeah. Cause I know with the 90 day fiance thing, you have to wait for the 90 days to be up and you have to be married. And then there's a application to do the work visa and it can take like six months before you're allowed to get a job. Right. There has to be a number assigned to the wages that you're making so that you can pay taxes on it that's exactly as it takes a while to do that so she would spend a lot of she had time on her own because will's working and she's not so she joined the gym and you know great anna she's trying to incorporate herself into american life all american yeah she's doing it all man yeah she's got a dutch

brothers in her hand that's she's she's conquered it really she had a fucking one of those goddamn uh hydro flasks she's got oh yeah totally it's wild airfods for christ's sake oh absolutely you know it while she's working out totally yeah but will at this point is now. So you figure now he's moved on. He's, you know, he's in Corvallis with his girlfriend here with his fiance who's got a ring on. No, he's still he just splits nights. Sometimes he'll just not come home at night. That's because he's fucking Michelle. Wow.

And then he'll just come home the next day and just be like, hi, I'm home. And that's that. So he just went back and forth just back and forth at his own will of whatever no pun intended for his own free will here and Anna had no idea why he kept

disappearing and she said she would have to contact his friends to say have you seen Will have you seen Will is Will with you I can't find him I came here from russia for this shit i'm yeah i'm a long way from home there's text messages that say do you know where he is what's going on where is he going what is going on with his time which is a very russian way to say that it's a very not american way to say that yeah what is going on with his time country are you from are you an alien what's

going on it's not the right way to use english so anna but she knows more english than i know russian so good for her anna uh says is asking people do you know where will is and all this type of shit but he will is two different people i mean he's this guy and then he's the mr nice guy you are the sun you're my angel in the clouds that he wants you to believe in so um he also lied about a lot of other things he was never in the marines oh never never stationed in russia never been to russia because he's never been in the fucking armed forces and he's just a guy who hangs out in oregon what do you see see rocky and root for fucking drago yeah some people are obsessed with russian shit steven segal i mean look at him he's been obsessed with it for 50 40 years you know so weird thing yeah

never so he his one of his best friends is completely a false they're best friends because they talk about that and it's on a completely false pretense that's what i mean so he will even lie to a guy he'll even lie if it's not sex he'll just lie to be what people want he wants he needs to be what people want it's a fucking really creepy sociopath yeah yeah well yes he's mimicking he finds figures out what you want mimics it it's a weird some kind of path there so he uh wow it's wild so then michelle said quote about anna quote her and i friended each other on facebook and then i saw her then i saw her wearing my wedding ring on facebook you know because there's pictures on there shit so will had told anna that this was his

grandmothers and all that like i said and anna had no idea that this wasn't will's grandmother's fucking ring so she all the out of the blue on march 22nd anna gets a facebook message from michelle about quote sharing will yikes michelle says via facebook quote if we are going to continue to share him dot dot dot uh-huh so holy shit now anna at this point she knows of michelle as the crazy ex-girlfriend, quote unquote. So she says, get out of our lives. Oh, okay. Yeah. Why are you doing this? I have a fiance.

Leave us alone. What are you doing with your time? She then says, what are you doing with your time? This, and it's not worth it. Anna then says, quote, stop being a bitch. That's her Facebook quote, which I love. That's awesome in a Facebook message. And then Michelle says, I am happy to show you just how much of one I can be.

Oh. So now the girls are getting mouthy. Quit being a bitch. You ain't seen a bitch yet, motherfucker. Like, she's ready to throw down. So Michelle says she wasn't threatening her later on. I'm not threatening her. She says, quote, no, just being mouthy.

She said, I just meant that if you think I'm being threatening her she says quote no just being mouthy she said i just meant that if you think i'm being bitchy now like just watch that's her quote you wait and see you're wearing my wedding ring that's the fucking crazy part that's wild so three days after this confrontation yeah is the magical day it's wedding day time. It's Anna and Will. This was three days before. Before the wedding day, okay? Oh, my God. It's going to be beautiful, Jimmy, this wedding. I mean, you can't beat this wedding.

It's going to be out on the beach. It's a beach wedding. Will's friends are coming. He's got an officiant all ready to go, and they're all going to meet down on the beach, and they're going to get married. She's going to have a beautiful American beach wedding. Can't do that in Moscow. You know what I mean?

No, they can't. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, you'd be wearing a parka. So this is much better for her. Yeah. So they head to the coast this day. Anna brings her wedding dress all the way from Russia.

She brought this wedding dress. She carried it over whichever ocean you fly over that we're unsure of. She may have flown over a boat. Who knows? She carried it over here. She had a boat who knows she carried it over here she had a ring on that you know she was proposed to it's amazing will on the way says he needs to stop though at the walmart on the way there to do what to buy their wedding bands oh that's where i buy all my forever jewelry walmart walmart jewelry yeah i get you could buy

whatever but your wedding band you know go to go to fucking jared or something i don't know don't go to walmart find a fucking weisfield anything yes so he's gonna go in and take care of that okay and he he leaves anna sitting in the parking lot in her wedding dress. Which, what blushing bride wouldn't want to spend a good portion of her wedding day in a rural Oregon Walmart parking lot? That's not the dream for anybody. I don't know what is. Awaiting vans. Awaiting fucking poor quality wedding vans.

So, while he's in Walmartmart shopping for a ring unquote unquote he's on the phone with michelle at the same time uh-huh and he their discussion isn't you know why are you getting married right now and you know this is messed up and you hurt me and my husband blah blah blah it's him and her discussing whether or not he's going to be over to see her that night. He's getting married and he's like, yeah, I might be over to see you later.

I'm going to leave her at a hotel somewhere. How much fucking does this man need? Right. You're going to get Anna's going to give. You're probably getting laid tonight. You're going to have to leave and go bang this broad, too. What's wrong with you? Like, crazy.

I'm sorry, but Jesus Christ, this is too much for put your penis away, sir. So she was that's what they were doing. They said they asked Michelle later, did you have any clue while he was in Walmart that he was going to get married on the way there? And she said, not at all. No clue whatsoever. No idea. there and she said not at all no clue whatsoever no idea didn't tell her that at all like oh it's my wedding night but i still think i can get out there to see you all right so they get out to the beach beautiful i mean this is going to be imagine the sun's going to be setting behind him for the pictures it can't get more beautiful

that oregon mist in the air oh it's going gonna be amazing jimmy oh but there's one problem what's that the officiant doesn't show up oh no the guy performs supposed to perform the ceremony doesn't show up so he gets on a phone on the phone he's walking around talking on the phone and he hangs up the phone and he tells the witnesses, his friends, and Anna that the officiant's not going to be able to make it. Went through. Fell through. He got sick. He got sick.

He's very ill and he can't make it. And this sucks. He's very, very, very sorry about that. Yeah. He's very sorry. In actuality, he wasn't calling the officiant on the phone because he never booked any officiant. He didn't do anything. He just drove to the beach with his friends.

Nothing planned to do this. Nope. He actually walked away from them. And while he pretended to be very upset about an officiant being ill and his wedding day being delayed, he actually called a couple video game stores. To ask about a couple. To ask what games in stock. Like he was asking about games he wanted. Do you have this game?

What's the release date of this game? Shit like that. He literally called GameStop to see what was up with some video games. And then closed his phone, solemnly walked over to a chicken or wedding dress and said, the officiant can't make it. He's very ill. But good news is, Black Ops will be out on October 3rd. So it's fine.

Red Dead's coming in early. Yeah. What the fuck is happening oh boy that's crazy so he never he never arranged for an officiant he never even got a marriage license which would require both of them but anna's not from here she doesn't know that she thought you just go and you watch movies they say i do you say i do it's oh there you go you're married they never show that in one harry met Sally. They don't show any of that shit. They don't show you sitting in a state office for a fucking hour. And when they go number 43 and then you walk up there and go, that's us.

And then you fill out paperwork and then they stamp something and hand it to you and go mail that in when you're done. And then you walk out on the height of romance. They don't show you that part. Let's fuck. Let's fuck now so there's she doesn't even there isn't even any pictures of her in her wedding dress except one oh one picture of her in her wedding dress and it is their seat texting sitting in the passenger seat of his car on the

mcdonald's drive-thru surveillance camera because they stopped for McDonald's on the way back. That poor thing. That poor, you can actually see her in her wedding dress in the front seat. All puffy, it's just so sad to watch. The worst wedding photo ever. Oh, the worst. The fucking worst one ever. So a new date, they're going to get married again now?

Are they going to reset this up? Yeah, that's probably going to happen, right? Well, he told Michelle, not according to her. Michelle didn't think so. Michelle said, quote, he had made it apparent to me that she wasn't a good fit and that it wasn't going to work out. Oh. I guess, yeah. So she had said, okay, good.

Michelle did. She said, good, I'm going to leave my husband then, and me and you will just try it, just with the two of us. She said, I'm going to leave my husband. I'll even give you a date. And this is the date for you to have Anna gone, too. She's gone. I'm away from my husband. April 19, 2017.

Tax day. That's the day. That's the 15th. Sure. Same shit. Pay your taxes, and then we'll talk, and then we'll move in together. Well, that's why it's the 19th. They had to get taxes done first i mean you know get your taxes done me and these kids are moving in yep we're gonna move in to that apartment i told you about but without anna this

time but with my two kids so as the date grows clint he says absolutely fucking deal done april 19th as the date approaches anna still is still doesn't seem packed up to go anywhere, really. Seems to be just kind of living. Awfully comfortable in here. Pretty, because she just bought something. She bought furniture. She bought a house plant, for Christ's sake. You know how long cacti live?

Like a long time. She bought a turtle, dude. She's not leaving. Things are like 200. Come on. So she then realizes that and she said, what the fuck? Meanwhile, he is continuing to push her. When are you leaving your husband?

You're going to be out by the 19th. Are you leaving? What's up? And she's like, well, what's up with Anna? You're not. What's happening with that shit? So she gave him till the 19th to, quote, choose me or her. That's what she said.

Choose me or her. And he told her, quote, I will have this problem solved permanently by April 19th. Don't you worry. So Anna, though, she's talking about wedding dates to reschedule. Yeah. She's like, oh, what about this date? I don't know about that. You know, blah, blah, blah.

They asked Michelle, did you give him that? That was an ultimatum. And she said, at one point I did. Yes. I told him he had to pick one. I didn't want anything bad to happen to her. I just didn't want her here. Right.

And so, yeah. So they said, you did pressure him to choose? And Michelle said, I did. Yes. So, wow. This is the whole thing. You got to choose. It's all, I did. Yes. So, wow. This is the whole thing. You got to choose. It's all on.

So that's the date. You're going to be done with your marriage. Michelle says she was supposed to be gone or whatever. He was supposed to leave her. And they said there was a lot of pressure put on. Later on, we find out on Will from Michelle to get rid of Anna. A lot of back and forth. A lot of text messages where this is later on

the prosecutor will say, quote, one minute it's like clean out your stuff and get out. Don't have your shit in my house anymore. Michelle's texting Will.

And then the next minutes, I love you, I want to be together, but we can't do that if she's here. So it's very, they're both being manipulative. That's all there is to it.

So there's texts at one point and they said at one point there's texts between the two of you where you're pressuring him to choose, and at one point you told him to fix it. What did that mean? She said, by the way, this interview of hers from 48 Hours, they did a thing on this. So they did a good coverage on this story. Michelle said, in the general sense, fix it in the sense that you would take care of it, not take care of it like take somebody out. You know, like you would end the relationship that you'd be done. That's right.

And Will said, look, I tried to send Anna packing. I keep telling her, but she won't go. She won't go. And he's her sponsor here. So he can't kick her out unless she wants to go back to Russia because he's responsible for her. I'll get in trouble. Well, he's financially responsible for her. Like if something happens, he's the one.

If you're a sponsor of somebody like that and they're just over here. Yeah, you're financially responsible for them. They're like your kid at that point. They go crash a car into something. You got to fucking pay for it. Oh, shit. People can sue you for that. So that's how it works.

So Michelle said, God damn it. This chick won't ever get the hint. What the fuck? She keeps coming back. What's happening? So April 7, 2017, there's a chick named Stevie Ray. That's a woman. It just makes me think of the giant black guy from the Harlem Heat tag team with Booker T and WCW.

Yeah, I see the big black guy from wrestling, definitely. I see incredible guitarists. That's what I see. Totally see it. Like a 6'7", 300-pound black guy with huge muscles. Instead, it's some chick who hangs out in the bar in Oregon. She said that she knew Will from the Peacock, and she said that Michelle had given Will an ultimatum saying you got to choose.

And he had told Stevie Ray, Will did, that, quote, he didn't know what to do because he loved them both. Oh. This is a mess, dude. You're super involved and knee deep in one of them. One. Fuck. Both, it seems like somehow you can't be in love with one that has the all those other all that other baggage you just can't so much it's for if you were to

now i don't know about love and feelings and all that kind of shit but if you were to just take this from a scientific level and break it apart and go what's a better situation for will here you go will you got anna just marianna what are you doing she seems like a nice girl she likes you you like her what the fuck cut this other lady off with her weird open marriage and her kids and everything else it's too much for you too much he's knee deep in trying to be something he's not though too not just oh not just with either of them everywhere his whole life he's a marine he's this he's that he probably doesn't even like the avengers yeah hates chris fratt hates him so ray uh stevie ray said that on april 7th she called will because she was too shit-faced to drive home and she asked will for a ride home she called him

for a ride home he picked her up at at the bar and Anna was in the car. So Stevie Ray also noticed that there was a hard, long gun case in the car as well and some shotgun shells in the back seat. Okay. So she said that she had been introduced to Anna through Will and they had struck

up a friendship actually, Stevie and Anna. So Stevie Ray and Anna had been hanging out and ray said that anna would call her on the phone uh always from a number that showed up as a blocked id on her caller id because i don't know why but that's how she did and even invited stevie ray to attend her bachelorette party which would be on april 22nd so yeah she's making friends isn't that nice yeah uh april 9th here 2017 ryan butler who's a bouncer at the Peacock, said he hung out with Will sometimes and, you know, they socialized and shit. He said he had a that Will and Michelle on the night of April 9th in the bar had a heated argument in the middle of the bar.

Oh. to the point where Butler, the bouncer, who was friends with both of them, had to come over and ask them to fucking chill out because customers were starting to get very uncomfortable and wanting to leave because they were causing a commotion in the middle of the bar. So they're arguing. Then on April 15, 2017, four days till the old ultimatum deadline here, Michelle was supposed to have dinner at will's apartment i don't know how the fuck that happens because anna's there too but

we'll figure that out about eight o'clock p.m though will tells michelle that she can't come over actually because when he made this date with her he had kicked anna out and she left but now she's back okay so i'm sorry about that but i'll take care of it don't worry she'll be gone by the 19th four days okay so then they have a big heated text argument over that how dare you you said she's gone blah blah blah honey you're my son and my moon and my fucking stars and i love you and you're fucking bubble yeah oh jesus get in the clouds you're my angel so they they by the way michelle and will during the relationship exchanged more than 13 000 texts my god a lot they said constant checking in every morning to make sure that he's woken up on time for

work she would wake him up with text messages wow yes uh it said it didn't seem like there was an hour in the day where they weren't in communication with each other. Then it's April 16th, Easter Sunday. Okay. According to Michelle, Will told her that Anna was leaving April 15th, the Saturday, and that he would be packing his things up and would be at the Albany house by midnight that night. Okay. Because remember, she was supposed to come over for dinner, and Anna's back, but I'll get her the fuck out of here, and I'll be over by midnight in your house with your husband.

Right. So, Jesus Christ, he never showed up. Okay. He doesn't show up. So, Michelle drives by the house early Sunday morning, and his car was still parked outside and so she assumed that he's in there with anna right so he says then that day quote i will have this permanently fixed by 1800 hours tomorrow you know because he's a marine and all some military time yeah

yeah you know he's a marine and all by 6 p.m by 6 p.m i will have this permanently fixed that's what he tells her then okay don't you worry about it so yeah he'll have it all handled on easter sunday by six o'clock michelle continued even after that to text and call will who eventually turned his phone off it's enough me alone. Yeah, that's what it was. So all these hours pass with no reply. Michelle hopes that Anna's getting kicked out of the house here. But by 2.06 a.m. when she drove by and Anna's car, or he's still there and the car's there, she leaves a voicemail and says, quote, I guess you made your choice.

Okay. That's Michelle's voicemail to Will. Then at 3.10 a.m., she leaves another voicemail saying, quote, I'll let you be. Why? I just want to know why. I'll let you be, but I just want to know why. Those are two very different emotions you just said there. Does she call back and say, I thought I heard the phone ring? I think, yeah, I just went to the bathroom.

I thought I heard it ring like half a time and hang up and I didn't know. Yeah. So the next morning here, Michelle, Easter Sunday, heads to her mother's house for Easter. Jamie Klotz is there as well for some reason. Don't know why. Nowhere to go on Easter. Jamie said, quote, she said she spent the night ugly crying over Will and Anna. night ugly crying over will and anna and even though i knew that the probable what the probable answer was going to be i still asked her like why and she looks at me and goes why do you think

and i said because of will she said yeah so yeah so she ends up uh going to i guess her sister's house was where the family was gathering for dinner there. She eats dinner, Michelle does, and begins drinking heavily over the course of the day. Oh, yeah. Just fucking tears in her eyes, makeup running down from yesterday, pounding the bottle while Aunt Kathy looks on and goes, Are you okay, sweetheart? We haven't seen you in a while. You can't even walk. Wow, sweetheart. Oh, my goodness, darling.

So back at the apartment here will has another problem his car insurance is about to be canceled they've been sending him notices and if he doesn't have it paid by that night on midnight they're going to cancel his insurance so he calls him and he says i know it lapses but he said, OK, can you guys hold off until the 21st so I can get you paid? And Progressive Insurance says, unfortunately, once it's pending cancellation for nonpayment, we don't have the ability to move dates at all. And this one. Yeah. So it'll be it'll be in effect canceled effectively at midnight tonight. So he's like, fuck, OK. So Will michelle at about 4 30 p.m on easter and that michelle says quote uh this is what he said quote that he had been out on the coast and that he was on his way back and he almost hit a deer and he ran off the road and had a flat tire

and needed help and she said he sounded shaky and sad and said he needed help changing a flat tire what kind of a marine needs help changing a flat tire give me a break and what marine calls ladies to fix his shit yeah come on drunk ladies mind you so she agreed to drive out there and meet him even though she's been drinking all day and she said partly because quote i wanted to yell at him i gotta get some shit, quote, I wanted to yell at him. I got to get some shit off my chest. I wanted to yell at him in person. That's fucking awesome.

I got something to say. So she leaves Easter dinner. Yeah. Bounces out of there. And he's waiting for her at a local convenience store. Just kind of hanging out. On the video at the convenience store, you can see him go to the cooler. He gets a Pepsi. He goes and gets a candy bar.

And he gets a pack of cigarettes. Okay. So a little pick-me-up package here. Yeah. About an hour later, Michelle arrives. And she parks on the side of the store. She gets out of her Prius. And she says, quote, I asked him, what happened?

Where have you been? And she says, quote, I asked him, what happened? Where have you been? And he told me that he after we had talked that to after we had talked, they had gotten into an argument. And he said horrible, mean things to her and that she had turned around and taken her suitcases and walked out. OK, so Anna was gone. So he said he needed to go for a drive and to the coast because it was an an emotional thing and then here he is so he figured he was gone for good so michelle said that cool well you know michelle says that they got we'll get into my car and i'll drive you home and you know whatever

so michelle says quote we drove for a little bit we pulled off and we were talking for a few and then honestly we ended up having sex in the front seat. Wow. Make up sex in the front seat. She says, holy shit. After that, she goes back to the family's Easter celebration and he goes on his way. He called her. She left Easter dinner to show up,

fuck him in a car and then leave. He is risen. Wow. That is rising like a motherfucker. Holy shit. That is rising like a motherfucker. Holy shit. That is, that's the story we should be telling people every year. That's a much more fucking amazing one. Like, I know it happened.

It's on, we have, you know, GPS and shit. So we can prove it in a court of law. So they went their separate ways. And she ends up, she, her Jamie Klotz will say, hey, Jamie Klotz. Jamie Klotz will say, she came back. She was in a good mood. She was smiling. She was, you know, she was happy.

She looked a total 180 from what she looked like in the morning. She looked like she had just been fucked. It was crazy. It's weird. Someone just fucked the sad out of her. So now Will heads home, but he has to make a few stops, though. First he stops at an ATM where he makes a $200 withdrawal from Anna's bank account. Oh.

Then he talks to some employees at the gas station who he knows, and he told one of them that his girlfriend just left him, and he was crying, and she was hugging him. Okay. He's very sad. Then he went to a second ATM, a Chase Bank, and withdraws $600 of Anna's money. Oh, so now he's got $800. $800 here.

So he just took that. That's about $9,930. Then he drives to another bank and deposits $160 of that cash into his bank account. Okay. Okay. Then next thing, calls up Progressive Insurance. You're not going to believe this, guys. I got the cash.

He says, y'all should, this is the exact quote, y'all should have a card on file for me and I need to make a payment, please. And then once it was done, everything's fine. Yep, all taken care of. He said, thank you very much, ma'am. That was that. 160? 160. Then he goes to the

bar, obviously. Gotta go to the bar. So several people there said that he seemed like he'd been going through a tough time emotionally. Lately, they've been talking to him and he's had two women he's been trying to choose between. Several other people said, you know, they talked to him, because all the bar people later on, they talked to him, and they said, yeah, he talks to us about everything, about his girls, about his wife, his job.

He has a big interest in guns, you know, being a military man and all. So he's a gun thing. One person said that he had gone shooting with Will on several occasions in the Alsea area, including at least one time when he had fired a shotgun out there. Another time they talk about how they were they were this person said that she knew him from the Peacock where they're both regulars. She doesn't even work there. And she said they talked frequently about his relationships. And he said, quote quote this is making me a little bit crazy is what he used to always say so this night though april 16th from 10 30 about 10 30 11 o'clock this customer said she saw him very intoxicated at the peacock so he was drinking she said as they were smoking outside the bar

he will asked her if they could talk and then let her a short distance away from the entrance. OK, we'll have a private chat. She said, quote, he broke down crying. All right. Quote, he was calling himself a piece of shit and a terrible person. I gave him a hug and he cried on my shoulder. I comforted him as best I could. After about 10 or 15 minutes,

he pulled himself together, stood up and walked away. Holy shit. Other people at the bar said he was kind of distraught, had tears in his eyes when he showed up at the bar. He showed up crying at the bar. Talking about I'm a piece of shit. I'm a piece of shit. Another guy piece of shit um another guy i'll bet

that's commonplace i'm a terrible person yeah i'm a piece of shit such a terrible person it's will's turn tonight yeah oh look it's will tonight oh man you win five bucks. Okay, we got a pool. Like squares like the Super Bowl pool. So he's going to cry before 11 p.m. Okay, and it's Will. Wow, you win. Eric Padrobski said he also saw Will that night. He said he knew both Will and Michelle from his job at the gas station and convenience store in Corvallis, where both Will and Michelle were regulars, he said that he came in so often, Will did,

that he frequently, that Eric came to know even his preferred brand of cigarettes and soda. He likes Pepsi, by the way, and he smokes American Spirit Blacks. Oh, really? That's what he's smoking out there. The Blacks, huh? The Blacks, yeah, that's what he's into. That's a gross one. That's what he's smoking out there. The blacks, huh?

The blacks, yeah. That's what he's into. That's a gross one. That night, everybody said he didn't appear to be doing that well. Padrobsky said he came out of the store looking kind of somber, and I asked him what was wrong. He gave me a long hug and said he loved me. What's wrong? Oh, Jesus, bro.

Wow. he loved me what's wrong okay jesus bro wow so april 17th monday morning day after easter a uh we'll talk about this here there is a caretaker for a large property yeah on near these logging areas these logging roads that happened to be out walking his dog that day in the woods. And he comes across a horribly horrible scene. He comes across what he believes is the body of a young lady, but with the back of her head completely kind of blown off. What the shit? Not looking good here. So he freaks out out obviously calls the cops the police department here the lieutenant says the caller was walking on this road on a day and in a time and place that he really should have

never been which i don't know what that means makes it sound like it's his fault right monday morning walking his dog i mean what's wrong here so we were very very lucky to find this body if it would have been you know any time, we might never have found her. So they don't release anything to the public. They just say there's a person we found, a young woman. They don't release the name of it, but they find Anna out here in the woods here. So the prosecutor will say this is outside of Corvallis, quite a ways out in the Alsea area and up a remote logging road.

So you'd have to know this is here. Right. Which is, we'll get into that. They said her body was discovered by the caretaker. They said Anna was discarded in this landing with other trash, is what they said. They just thrown away. So one of the prosecutors said, both prosecutors come to the scene.

They call the prosecutors to the scene so they can see the scene and what it is. One of them says he and I, meaning the other prosecutor, were both on the scene to take a look for ourselves. That's so important in a prosecutor's role that you understand the scene, not just from photos, but having been there. And the other

prosecutor said, not too many people are going to be up in this area. So frankly, the fact that the body was discovered as quickly as it was, was pretty extraordinary. Sure. She could have been up there for five years before somebody found her. And they happened to find her like 12 hours after she died, which is remarkable. She is found shotgun blast to the back of the head, just discarded. has found shotgun blast to the back of the head just discarded um they said around her was fast food bags cigarette packs candy wrappers all sorts of shit like that yeah and they said at one point quote uh we didn't know what was evidence and what's not because that could either be a huge

evidence in the case or it could be just trash that gets right maybe wind blows things to this little spot who the fuck knows and then they get caught in the grass we have no idea or somebody backed up their pickup truck with the bed open and then he left her there then he left her there we have no idea so what's will doing during this time crying well he's trying to find anna too oh is he apparently he's he's sending anna text messages over and over. Where are you? What the fuck? Why won't you talk to me? I know I kicked you out and you left, but you should at least let me know where you are. And at one point, he said, just let me know you're safe, is the last one he sent to her.

So then it gets even weirder somehow. Think it can't get more strange? Will then goes home and starts down quite a strange rabbit hole here. He starts researching time travel. What? He starts researching how to time travel. Literally. Backward or forward?

Go back in time to, quote, fix something. Oh, Will. Okay. This man really does love Guardians of the Galaxy. He has lost his fucking mind. He said, this is the detective Chris Dale says, he's researching time travel. He's saved screenshots of web pages

that show you how to do a particular spell to travel back in time. Oh, he's mixing Guardians of the Galaxy and Harry Potter together. And Harry Potter together. to do a particular spell to travel back in time oh he's mixing guardians of the galaxy and harry potter together and harry potter together and fucking crazy internet corner conspiracy lunacy at the same time what the fuck will they said and we also see communication through whatsapp in which he's trying to ask for help from just people on whatsapp of how to travel back in time have any of you uh anybody here on a delorean please anybody here know a scientist with white spiky hair

i'll settle for a long-haired dog named einstein a witch's brew something i don't care i'll get you eye of newt whatever you need he said that he needs to go back in time. He said that he wanted to correct a horrible mistake that his best friend made. Oh. Okay. Now, Christopher Dale, the guy who found all this shit. Oh, God. Digital forensics is his specialty.

He said that also in examination of Will's phone that they found messages between Will and the two women and obviously Anna and Michelle. And they also said that Hargrove had messaged a different person on WhatsApp even a day after this asking more information about time travel. Quote, I need to learn about time travel. I need to correct a horrible mistake. This is amazing. Find the information wow i'm desperate no we say the dismount is the funny this is what i mean this is it this is what we do here so then another message what's better james a couple of people putting somebody in a barrel and then filling it with concrete and then realizing, oh, my God, it's too heavy. That's too heavy.

That's pretty fun. Or murder and then, holy shit, how do I travel back in time? Well, it would be funny if the people who filled the thing with concrete actually said, how do I travel back in time to take this concrete out? That would have been even better. That would have been the double stupid. How do I travel back before we added the water oh man yeah just then when it's still powder i'm good i can make it work he had another message yeah he had another message who said that he needed to fix something with the the women he wrote women instead of women who should be my wife and said

that if you could help him he'd be he doesn't have any money to pay you if you know time travel but he does offer you his soul oh so he'll he knows you can he's heard you can sell your soul to the devil maybe you can just sell your soul to some dude on WhatsApp who knows how to time travel. I don't know what kind of contract gets drawn up there, but something, right? What the fuck is going on? What's happening right now? Where's soul visa? I got to get the numbers again. Do you have your soul American Express?

Because we need to get the number off of that. Do you have your master soul? So he's going to pay with his soul. Cap it soul one. Cap it soul one. That's the best. Holy shit. What's in your wallet?

This is unbelievable. This is unbelievable. This is crazy. So then he sends another message to somebody else. Quote, April 16th, my best friend made a mistake. I want to go back and stop the situation from arising. Yeah. Another message said that he desired to go back to, because now someone said, maybe I can help you. What are you trying to do here?

What are you trying to accomplish? He said that he'd really, really love it if possible to go back to April 16th about 1130 a.m. and just stay home and stop the whole thing from playing out like it did. He said that he was just desperate to do this. Anyone that could possibly help him. Then there's more messages they find where he said that he told a friend that he was spending money he shouldn't be spending on things like cigars. And that was to distract himself from a chest pain he was having. on things like cigars, and that was to distract himself from a chest pain he was having.

His friend responded by, and this isn't right either, not saying you should go to the doctor or even, this is my doctor's number, he's good at this, he offered him some blood pressure medication. You don't know if that's the problem. You're not a doctor. You can't just take blood pressure medication that doesn't belong to you and you don't know if you have an issue with're not a doctor you can't just take blood pressure medication that doesn't belong to you and you don't know if you have an issue with that maybe you need some blood thinners what the fuck is that about holy balls this is terrible going on up here internet diagnosing this is worse than web md isn't it yes you're right

blood pressure medication diagnosing and fucking treating yeah what's the one thing if you're like i've just been freaking out i'm having panic attacks i have all this stress because this is all going i'm in the middle of moving and my fucking mother just died and all this and someone goes let me give you a xanax dude you need to chill out that would be one thing like okay fine yeah i'll take it tonight and i'll get some sleep yeah this is you want some blood pressure medication no you could pass out if that's not your medication blood pressure medication either lowers or or raises it i imagine it could do either i'm sure who knows which what if you gave me the opposite you dumb yeah what if pressure isn't the issue here? That's the problem.

He said, quote, nothing physically wrong, unfortunately. That's what Will responded with. Like, it's not a physical problem. It's anxiety. I mean, it's physical if you mean that you need somebody to be animated and they're not. That's a physical problem. That's the physical part. So what does he do now?

No one will help him time travel. It's been two days. He can't figure it out. So that's a physical problem. That's the physical part. So what does he do now? No one will help him time travel. It's been two days. He can't figure it out. So that's a problem. He's got all these issues now. He doesn't want the blood pressure medication. What will calm him down? Well, he goes to Walmart to shop for Star Wars Lego sets.

Get. And buys candy and cigarettes, too. Of course he does. Can I get a Pepsipsi snickers and some american spirit blacks to go with this fucking star wars lego sets so you get see i need an at-at right now bad like what the fuck is happening um so now wednesday april 19th investigators are they're looking through all the garbage looking for Anna's body looking through all this shit and they find trash found next to her body in that is a KFC

Kentucky Fried Chicken receipt from three days earlier from the 16th which would be they don't know if this is when she was disappeared but she's thinking it was they had to find her within that time period so they said it was from three days earlier with a time stamp that was very important so they said this is the lieutenant there was no name on the receipts kentucky fried chicken it's not like they're gonna put your fucking name on it like you ordered a car it's you ordered a fucking three-piece meal relax they know there's shame in this they don't want to yeah this isn't like starbucks you don't write that down.

This is like an impotence clinic or something. Like, we're going to do this in the 40s, you know? Don't shout that I have herpes. Jesus. Yeah, come on. Jesus. So they said, quote, KFC told us that there was actually a car that pulled up on Friday, and there was two purchases made from the car.

Oh. So they had to put their KFC order on separate. Can we have that on separate? Are you kidding me? No, I would have said one car. Pull your fucking money and figure it out. It's Kentucky Fried Chicken. Jesus Christ. What a scumbag.

They said there was one made with a debit card that came back to a Kevin Thomas, which is Will's friend, very good friend, and another purchase that was made with cash they said they only had one name to work with so they went to kevin thomas's house in corvallis so they said we're trying to put some pieces together for our case some garbage was found we think that may be something you bought last week from kfc he says okay like what So they said, do you know about that? And he said, I mean, yeah, me and my brother go to KFC.

And the cop says, go to KFC? And he says, yeah, go to KFC on Fridays. And they said, well, what's your brother's name, Kevin? And he said, Will Hargrove. It's not his real brother. They call each other brothers. That's his military friend. Oh.

Brother. Yeah. So they talked to Kevin here at the sheriff's office where he offers a couple other things. He said, you know, they said, well, what's your interactions been with Will lately? And he said, you know, we're usual KFC. We hang out, we talk, we do that. He borrowed a shotgun from me a couple weeks ago. Remember when Stevie Ray saw a long gun case with shotgun shells in the back seat? That was after he had borrowed this. He goes, he asked, you know, he borrowed a shotgun, and they said, did he say why he wanted to borrow it? And Kevin said, just that he was going to go up and do some shooting in the woods and just kind of blow off some steam.

So they said, well, when did he give it back? And he said, he never give it back and he said he hasn't got it he never gave it back to me i'm waiting still he never hasn't done that so they said okay so they go right to michelle's house where will is staying yeah and they knock on the door and will answers it yeah hi how are you hello yeah so they interview will 4 p.m at michelle's house i'd love to know where the husband is right now i'd love to know where raleigh is sitting inside like in a fucking recliner with his legs crossed just shaking his head going whore screaming once in a while this is your fault yeah screaming open

marriage huh open marriage need some love huh huh? Emotional support. Your ass. So, Lieutenant says, we're here following up on a case that we're working and your name comes, we come across your name and we want to talk to you. Will says, okay. Yeah. So, they introduce themselves and they start by bullshitting about, yeah, you used to work at the Peacock. You're a bouncer. Now you work at Lassen Chevrolet and Toyota. Okay, that's good. Rapport building is what they're doing. That's what that's called. So they're doing that.

They're asking them about, what about your whereabouts of this weekend? Where were you? They didn't say, we found a dead body with half a head missing. What's up with that? They just said, what you doing this weekend? Blah, blah, blah. He said, well, Friday, me and Kevin Thomas went to Kc for the regular

weekly fried chicken dinner yeah band of brothers just band of brothers through the drive-thru that's how we do it you know by the beaches of normandy and they eat kfc together kfc they storm the drive-thru of kfc every friday he said that he spent saturday playing video games with the thomas guy his brother there and then spent the evening riding around with Michelle as she picked up fares in her taxi. Oh. Then on Sunday, he said that he and Michelle drove out to Allsea together in his Nissan Xterra and got it on the backseat. Yeah. Now, he had told them, she had told them front seat, but this is backseat.

This is backseat, yeah. He had told those she had told them front seat. But this is backseat. Backseat. Yeah. He says backseat. Now, he, by the way, lied here telling them that he and Michelle drove up together on Easter Sunday when they met there. Obviously, he said, yeah, drove to L.C., stopped at the little market there, picked up a pack of cigarettes and drove back. That was my day, man. Just chilling. man just chilling there and they so the lieutenant said did you dump some trash when you were there by any chance and he said hmm yeah you know what i did i did he said on the side of the building on the side of the general store i threw some garbage away yep he said but yeah that trash i just left it on the on the side there yeah it could have been a kfc receipt i don't know but i left it on the side of the building so i don't know anything they said you want to do us a favor come down to the sheriff's office for a minute we can talk to you down there a little more room not not have raleigh staring laser beams into the side of your head because that's been getting uncomfortable and then these kids saying why is mommy's special friend in trouble yeah yeah why

is uncle special friend in trouble why is uncle master in trouble why do you call him that i don't know we just hear mommy yelling at that from the room with the door closed we thought that was his name uncle master yeah so while he said sure of course i'll come down to the sheriff's office while he's getting let me just grab a couple of things while he's getting ready to leave he texts michelle and just says quote picked you up at your mom's, drove to Alcee General Store and drove back. Uh-oh. Here's my story.

We're sticking to this, right? He doesn't think they know, like, phone stuff. Like, is he fucking, he doesn't know Portland is also in Maine. He has no idea that the cops in 2017, this isn't 98 where they're like, they can pull my cell phone records. This is 2017. Right. I can just delete it and it goes away. Oh, yeah.

What the fuck? So at the police station, this is ridiculous. At the police station, the detectives continue to ask about the garbage. He says that he continued to say he left it at the store. He doesn't know what you're talking about. Eventually, one of the detectives tells him that the garbage was not found where he said he left it. Yeah. And he said, I had nothing to do with it then because that's where I left it.

That's Will's response. So then they go to Anna and they go, what do you know about Anna? What do you know about her? Yeah. Anything? And he says, quote, almost nothing. Almost? Almost nothing.

They said, well, how'd you guys meet? And he said, I met her in downtown Corvallis. Oh, you didn't. His name is on federal paperwork. Does he not think that cops investigate dead people at all? He thinks whatever he says, they're just going to go, oh, okay, and jot that down. Because that's what chicks believe. Chicks believe him and they fuck him.

But cops actually check up on the shit you say. Unlike some lady you met on the internet who might not know that they need to check up on you, cops will go, okay, they take everything you say and they go check it to make sure it's true. Run it against records. And they know for a fact that they didn't meet in downtown Corvallis

because she is not from here. Very much not so. She would not have been there ever. But they get him a little further the cop just goes just walking around you met her and he said yeah yeah yeah just walking around he said yeah he played down the relationship was act like it was no big deal he said quote we went on like two dates and decided um well i told her it wasn't going to be anything more than that and that i was happy to keep hanging out with her but that's all it

was going to be like it wasn't going to be a more than that and that I was happy to keep hanging out with her but that's all it was going to be like it wasn't going to be a serious relation I'll plow her everything but it's not a serious relationship he even called her psychotic at one point wow she just got a little psychotic on me and you know I don't want to do that it's called Russian it's still Russian on me you know you know it goes

they said okay how long ago was that and he said uh last time I saw her was middle of March, is what he said. Wow. I haven't seen her since middle of March. Meanwhile, they tried to get text messages and wedding dresses and all this type of shit. Idiot. The lieutenant goes, middle of March, huh?

And he goes, yeah, we cut it off because she decided to put on Facebook that we were engaged. You know, in case you go back on Facebook and see that she says she's engaged to me, that's why. The only thing he thinks they might check is Facebook. Not phone records, not immigration status, WhatsApp, none of that stuff. Just Facebook. That's all they have access to, cops. Why is there a dead immigrant in the woods? I don't know, man question haven't seen her in about six weeks you know what good question

if you guys figure it out let me know because i'm curious thank you i'll be going now so the the detective said she posted that and he said yeah and the detective said after two dates because he said he only went out twice and he go and he said, yeah. And the detective said, after two dates? Because he said he only went out twice. And Will goes, oh, yeah. Oh, shit, yeah. I said, fuck, I fucked that one up. Wow, yeah, I guess she would be psychotic if she was. When are you going to marry me after two dates?

Yeah, that would be considered pretty psychotic. Otherwise, it's reasonable. If you brought her here after giving her a ring and told her i'm gonna marry you so you can be a citizen and all this shit that's maybe a little more reasonable oh yeah so then oh yeah and then he says quote and it brought hell down upon me uh-huh now he's turning to a cowboy all of a sudden it brought hell down upon me so i don't know why he turned out showed up and everything it's crazy fucking wild so they detective said from who and he said from michelle and michelle's family so they asked him about the shotgun he borrowed and uh he said he borrowed the gun to clean it

for him not to go shooting he just wanted to clean it for his friend because he's that kind of guy get any guns around here i suspect he's filthy it's's filthy i'll clean your gun for it then he said they said well have you returned it and he goes i returned it weeks ago meanwhile they didn't know that before talking to him they had talked to his friend and they know this is a lie they have no idea he's so dumb he just goes into like he's thinking i'll talk to him before they talk to him and i'll tell him he's wow is he trying to plug holes like quickly here he's a lucky sailboat at this moment oh man he so they said that he found uh they said okay well during a search we found a uh a gun in your exterra what's up with that yeah and uh yeah they said that and they said so will you know he's holding the shotgun and he goes, so your trash was found where somebody was killed.

Will said, I'm sorry, what? I don't know what you're talking about here. And the guy goes, okay, that's what we're talking about here. Like someone's dead. I'm holding a gun we found in your car and your trash was found by the pile. By the body. By the body. In a pile.

Next to the body is what I meant to say. Not that the body's a pile. So that's a pile. By the body. By the body, and in a pile, in a pile, next to the body is what I meant to say. Not that the body's a pile. So, that's a pile of body right there. So, this is fucking wild.

So, he says, that's what we're talking about here. And Will said, you guys are looking at me for this? Yeah. And the detective said, your trash,

like my partner said, was found there. Your stuff was found at the scene where somebody died. And the other detective said, yeah. And Will said, I don't know because that's not where I left it. I mean. He's stuck in a loop of like, oh, my God, I can't get out of this. It's not where I left it, bro.

I don't know. So then the detective says, okay, talking to you, there's a lot of inconsistencies with your story about what happened. Will interrupts him and says, no offense, guys, you've been really kind, and I like you, and I don't mind that, you know, but the moment that you say somebody was killed out there and then no i just no just no if you guys are looking at me for this i want a lawyer okay so they say okay william hargrove need you to stand up put your hands behind your back because you're under arrest for murder shithead and fucking arrest they literally say that in arrest not shithead but the rest of it we'll get you a lawyer don't worry about it you're gonna sell yeah yeah's where you're going to call him from is fucking in here. So

you're going to do it with fucking fingerprint ink on your hands. You know how you get that one phone call? Call that guy. Call that guy. So they also interview Michelle and she said that yeah she met Will at an LC in her own vehicle on Sunday that's whatever. She said that also

she gave him the ultimatum about getting rid of Anna. So they're like the ultimatum about getting rid of anna they're like why would he want to get rid of her and she's like might be because i told her to told him to maybe because i accidentally told him to murder somebody yeah her stories don't match up either by the way this is a problem yeah after she's arrested michelle's brought in for questioning about what she was doing easter sunday she said, can you tell me what this is about? And the police here say that Will had texted her to say that they'd driven out to Elsie together. And the detective said, and he picked you up at your mom's house at that time? And she said he did, which is a lie.

She's lying for him. And they said, okay. And then she admitted it and said, well, that's a little bit of a lie. She admits it. A lot of it. A a little bit of a lie. She admits it. A lot of it. A lot of it of a lie. He called me. He was going to pick me up, and then he didn't.

And so she said, honestly, I wasn't thinking. I don't have a good answer for why I lied, is what she said later. So they said, I want you to know right now that Will's under arrest for murder. And she says, okay, okay. Well, that's good. Not me. Just him. Just him. for murder and she says okay okay well that's good not me just him just him she said they said she didn't seem at all surprised when they told her he'd just been arrested for killing anna

she's literally her it's on video she went okay okay like yeah wow like we'll just gotten a little fender bender but he's okay oh okay okay good Like, that's what it was. Cause she knows apparently, or according to what they think anyway, allegedly. So, um, the officer said, how are you not extremely upset right now? Yeah. And she said, I, I, I was just about to be, yeah, I was, I was getting there. It takes me a minute. And the Lieutenant said to know the person that you were romantically involved with and she cuts him off and said i am very upset right now now i'm mad

yeah i am very upset right now again she says that twice which when people say things twice that means they're lying in an interrogation when they repeat themselves it usually means they're lying i don't i don't understand how that can be a person that I have spent the last year and a half with. She said later on that she was numb and it didn't make sense. Now, evidence he's lying. Okay. He tells her two dates. They have a fucking lease with their names on it together that they signed.

They live together. And they find that. This is all evidence they need for court, you know. and they find that this is all evidence they need for court you know so they also find visa documents belonging that were found not only in his vehicle there but also

a video of Hargrove setting up a cell phone for her at a T-Mobile store that he was buying for her as a matter of fact as well his friend Kevin's shotgun like we said had been removed from the vehicle Will's fingerprints are on the shotgun, which is no surprise. He said he borrowed it.

Michelle's DNA is nowhere on the shotgun. That's important later. Her fingerprints are not on the gun either. So they pieced together all this shit. They track video camera surveillance, his drive, cell phone tower pins, all this type of shit, GPS. And they said, quote, cell phone tower,

pins, all this type of shit, GPS. And they said, quote, we see that Will's car that's distinct for various reasons, traveling along a certain path. And it gave us a location as well as timeframes.

The GPS tracking gave them that Will's phone pinging from the murder site from 435 to 448 that afternoon. Oh, that's not a good, that's bad. Um, 435 to 448 that afternoon. Uh-oh. That's not a good, that's bad. They said that the reason it pinged is because they believed that he had called Michelle at that point. And Michelle was at her mother's house doing that. They said, we don't have any forensic data or information that was left at the crime scene to suggest that Michelle was at the scene that day there. But they also said, you know, that surveillance video of him shopping in the store getting cigarettes in a candy bar you know the convenience store waiting for michelle they said

toward the top of his bald head you can appear see what appears to be smaller black dots oh and they think it's possibly blood spatter the prosecutor says we can't tell you if it was blood we can't tell you what it was but we can can tell you it was there before he met Michelle. Subsequent photo comparison afterwards shows that these spots weren't moles. They were gone. So it was either mud or blood. So then the truck, they said photos of the Xterra show that it was splattered with mud on the outside, littered with empty energy drink cans, soda bottles, and other items on the inside. One detective said it was pretty dirty inside, or I guess I should say cluttered.

They found the gun, the case containing a Model 88 Mossberg Maverick shotgun, as well as a number of spent and unspent shotgun shells. So there's that. They also found a purchase agreement for the SUV signed by Will and co-signed by Michelle, by the way, as well as a wallet containing Will's driver's license, bank card, Social Security card, a pair of Walmart receipts, $68 in cash, his passport, two credit cards in the name of Anna Repkina, and a bank receipt, some Russian currency, a pack of cigarettes that appeared to have Russian writing on it, and a picture of a man and a woman with what appeared to be Russian writing on the back. You know, Anna shit. Yep. Anna shit. So miscellaneous things that they also found in the vehicle are.

Oh, my God. A cell phone, a machete, a tarp, some parachute cord, a utility shovel. These are all things you might have in a sport utility vehicle. Yeah. Possibly. Also, some things you might not have in your sport utility murder kit. A pair of Star Wars pajamas that he just bought. What?

And a Star Wars Lego kit. what and a star wars lego kit he he went then and bought star wars lego kits and star wars fucking jammy jams post-mortar what would make me feel better jammy jams and to put together i want a giant r2d2 i want to go back you know listen when i go back in time i might i might it might get fucked up and I might be 12. I need to bring 12-year-old things. What if I go back too far? Holy shit. They also collected a progressive insurance snapshot vehicle data recorder, which had been disconnected, and some hair and fiber evidence.

Several stains were found inside the vehicle. None tested positive for blood i bet there was other stains in there because they were fucking in that car so yeah one more thing they found here uh was a uh was the receipt from their wedding day a receipt from mcdonald's in newport oregon dated november 25th of 2017 that was anna's wedding day that gross it was the one that should have happened but didn didn't happen. And his mom, that's how they got the snapshot of her in the wedding dress. That's it.

It was at the McDonald's drive through and his mom. This is how she finds out about it. She said she thought her daughter was rushing into things. She didn't want her to go. She said she thought to suspect things were off after her daughter moved, because whenever her mom would try to probe deeper into how her life was going, Anna would say her phone was dying and end the call. Oh.

Low battery. So she also said she realized something was wrong because Anna stopped replying to messages on that Sunday. And she realized so she started searching for information online and saw one of her daughter's friends had posted an article about a guy in oregon being arrested for murdering a russian woman an unnamed at this point russian woman that's why they waited because they had to talk to the next of kin which was the mother and they couldn't they didn't know how to fucking even find her so they said with the help of a family member who spoke english she called the corvallis police department and learned it was her daughter, and then they released the name to the public. That's how she found out, though.

She hunted them down by stumbling on a Russian girl dead and thinking, that could be my daughter. That's so fucked. Could be her. In Oregon, that's where, how many Russian girls there are, who knows? So they indict Will. In July of 2018, it takes them to indict him, which is crazy. That's wild. They indict him on murder charges

also charges of stealing identification documents two misdemeanor counts of second degree theft identity theft and the misdemeanor theft is 805 dollars and 50 cents in cash because those fees count too right oh yeah they do i think those are fucking free you're getting those atm fees hammered into the sentence. That might put you over whatever the cap is. It could kick you over somewhere, right? It might raise your fucking sentence based on those fees. Oh, shit.

He pleads not guilty, held without bail. Okay. So his defense is that Michelle did it. Really? And that he's very upset that Michelle did it, as a matter of fact. He's upset. did it. Really? And that he's very upset that Michelle did it, as a matter of fact. He's upset.

Because they said, and his defense says accurately, that in Michelle's first interview, she told police that they had driven out together, but later they admitted they went separately. She said she was initially confused in police questioning and didn't know what was going on or didn't fully understand the seriousness of the situation.

She also denied that she was lying for Will, saying she had no idea what his message even meant. Oh. Okay. The defense is going to make a big motion to suppress a whole bunch of shit. They said that anything he said during the interrogation,

they believe he's not properly advised of his Miranda warnings at the appropriate time during his interrogation. So none of that should be used. And law enforcement officials conducted improper searches, man. Improper. Oh? Yeah.

They said that, oh boy, it shows the police accessed his phone without a warrant, but they don't make clear what the evidence is that they didn't have a warrant. They also argue that an affidavit filed by a detective does not establish sufficient probable cause for initial search warrants in this case. That's a tough one when they found shit, though. That's a hard one. So it states that since probable cause was not established for the search, they are unconstitutional and all search warrants based on the evidence gathered through those initial searches are

also invalid and unconstitutional. And every drop of evidence you have against my client belongs right here in this waste basket because that's what it is. Garbage. Okay. And what did the judge say? They said the motion argues search warrants in the case were so broad, blah, blah, blah, the judge says, get the fuck out of here.

Are you kidding me? It's in. We got a receipt nailing's it we got a receipt nailing him to the to the scene that's probable cause isn't it i would hope so but no i've got a dead body there he knows her he's her fucking guardian more or less i don't know i'm not sure here i'm not positive i don't think so search somebody's phone with that information i would imagine so they're yeah i would imagine if someone's dead in a mysterious way and you were with them at any time that day they probably should search your phone i would think you know so they said if a commercial if the person committed

a crime why should we be looking back at how law enforcement got to the arrest the problem is that we don't carefully review and challenge law enforcement activity and then everyone's rights are eroded that's true but in this case this isn't the fucking hill to die on you're in the wrong place the guy has star wars pajamas yeah this i mean he's got jammies man so the trial comes around yeah and uh they said that you know just like on the failed wedding night they said that they left in the apartment and they never returned they see the prosecutor says he goes into detail about all the evidence that points to him including a dutch brothers cup oh my god they really got a dutch she was american holy shit a fad never

for some reason putting that in here i didn't notice that a fast marley yeah a fast food receipt and other garbage found at the crime scene. Cell phone tower pings. Murder weapon with his fingerprint on it that's inside of his car and nobody else's. Dark spots on his head on the video. There's a lot, I would say, here. Unspent shell. Several articles of clothing with blood on them as well.

Oh, that's another thing. That's good. Yeah. So they said as time passed, their theory is that financial pressures of supporting his double life with Michelle and Anna began to take a toll on his income as an oil change technician. They said that Michelle had financially supported him by giving him a room free to rent in her house and co-signing on his loan and continued to pressure him to end his relationship. They said by mid-April, Will was worried about his car getting repossessed, worried about his car insurance, worried about all this. He shows slides, the prosecutor shows slides of text messages, conversations.

On April 15th, they argued about deadlines, Michelle and Will, of deadlines of when they're going to be out of their relationships. Michelle was supposed to end her marriage to her husband, and Hargrove was supposed to end her marriage to her husband, and Hargrove was supposed to, quote, get rid of Repkina. Also showed business security photos, all the shit we just explained. They said it states contention that the evidence is conclusive that he committed the crime. Defense attorney says, no, no, no, no. The cops were fixated on my client and Michelle was jealous of Anna.

So she had a lot of motivation to do this. She said the evidence will show that Will and Anna were in a romantic relationship and that all his communications were with Michelle were an attempt to placate her. He said, quote, that Will had, quote, nothing but love for Repkina. That's the way that is okay yeah they argued that michelle was the one drinking at a family event and then drove off in a you know all drunk to over here well that's where she killed anna is what the defense says they said that michelle told will that he has family that she has family connections to the gypsy jokers biker gang and that that could be used to intimidate him into being silent about her killing Anna. Okay.

Yeah. So the defense also said that Will had Anna's permission to use her money. So that's bullshit. They said he took it out of the bank because he was planning to use it to flee the area to get away from Michelle. Oh, he's going to save her to flee the area to get away from Michelle. Oh, he's going to save her. That's what it was. Yeah. To get away from her because she's so crazy.

He said that- Gypsy gypsums. Well, the gypsy jokers, all of that shit. He said that his client could run when he was confronted by police, but he didn't. He said his client was interviewed and under stress, stress. He made a bad decision to lie. Yeah. He said, quote, he lied badly.

But Michelle Chavez also lied badly. That's right. They said also they found this is interesting. They stay made statements in which a friend alludes to a code for killing someone. They said and then the defense attorney attorney said you're going to find that she's hiding something about michelle and he says be curious and be skeptical when you hear the evidence against my client so anyway yeah they talk about the search of the car that's part of it all the evidence and we found fucking shells we found shovels we found pajamas we found a 187 russian shit yeah we just found a

whole exterra full of it now michelle here they said that you know they took michelle up to the location and had a conversation with anna and his contention is this is what the defense says because he won't testify well the defense says that they all went up to this location to have a conversation and that Michelle took the gun from him and shot Anna with it. Problem. Go on. Huge. They said a few pieces of evidence here. They said Michelle mysteriously ended up in possession of Anna's phone. Michelle ended up with Anna's phone. OK, Michelle just blamed Will on it.

Michelle said, quote, I didn't realize it was hers. He had given it to me, I guess, the night before he got arrested. So they said Michelle's own cell phone record showed that a month before Anna's body was found, Michelle visited that exact spot on the logging road. She knew where it fucking was. Michelle claims that's only because Will brought her there. But she could have been. But the defense says maybe she was scouting a location for this murder. Or maybe that's where Will goes to do shit, to do dirt, to fuck, to kill. Maybe Will was scouting an area and just happened to have her along, oblivious. Or she's in on it with him. Yeah.

That's the other thing. This doesn't have to be all one or all the other. Right. He could have fucked up, called her and said, holy shit, I fucked up really bad. Good news, bad news. Good news is Anna's out of the picture. I need your help. Need your help.

And then that's why they took the garbage and threw it out. I mean, that's very possible. I'm not saying that's what happened because I allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, but that's very possible here. So that's interesting. Michelle on the stand. She has now moved to watertown new york by the way the fuck out of here yeah as far away as she can besides portland maine so yeah they said the defense says that will loved anna and that he was starting a life with her and that

you're the one with the reasons to kill and she said i had no reason to want her dead no reason to kill her she said i do get how it looks but her being dead is nothing I ever wanted. I just wanted her to go home. They said, did you ever tell Will to kill Anna? And she said, no. They said, did you kill Anna? Did you kill anybody? Did you ever threaten her? Were you at the scene of the crime? Did you handle the shotgun? Did your father

belong to an outlaw biker gang that you used to intimidate Will? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, now, on cross-examination, though, it's a little bit different. She says jealousy was part of her feelings about the situation,

but she and Will had never agreed to be exclusive to one another. That's a lie. Oh, yeah. She said that she has been in multi-polyamorous relationships, but was angry that Will was lying about the relationship he had with Anna. She said, quote, Will knew when he met when I met him that

I'm not into monogamy in this message. I tell him my entire issue is that he's not being honest with me. He's talking about one of the she's talking about one of the text messages. Another time, though, they bring out. A conversation, a text that she had with one of her other lovers here, one of her other boyfriends. She made comments about building a snowman. And they asked her about that. What's that mean? She said it's a phrase is an old family joke that alludes to killing someone and hiding the body in a snowman somewhere in Montana where it will never thaw. You know, when your grandmother jokes about that all the time.

Remember that? Growing up a lot. Bonneville the snowman. Yeah. Everybody says that. Yeah. Totally. My grandmother might have actually said shit like that, but maybe.

But she's nuts. Yeah. So they said that Michelle said that during the questioning here that she had a morbid sense of humor. It's just a dog, which I mean, what we're doing. We get it. So, you know what, Michelle, you're the last person that better complain about this fucking podcast. Miss, I got a dark sense of humor.

I'll say a fucking word. Keep your fucking you keep your whore lip shut. I'm just kidding. That's a total joke. Just joking. So he says that she said that we make those jokes on a weekly basis as a way to deal with stress. I get that. They also said, okay, what about this one quote from, quote, building a snowman?

It was talked about in a text on April 11th, just five days before Anna was killed. And it said, quote, this was her text. If she's not gone by Thursdayursday i'm building a snowman that doesn't sound good that's a hell of a joke yeah i'd and then so the the defense attorney said that means you were talking about killing anna and she said yes but it was a joke mr flynn so then he well then he quoted another one he He scrolled down. He goes, well, what about this? When you said, quote, if I ever had to build a snowman, would you hate me? She asked one of her other people.

She was fucking that the same day. Yeah. Yeah. This was oh, this was that night. This was the Easter night after they think the murder happened. So she said that the message wasn't about Anna and that the full exchange they were talking about building two snowmen because she was annoyed with her husband who had been cranky at her about their sick children. I mean, I can't even go out and fuck strangers because he wants me to stick around and take care of sick kids and shit.

Ridiculous. When you make me explain the joke, it's not so funny. I get it. Yeah, I get it. It's less funny. Mr. Michael Richards had a hard time going back in time to rehash those jokes. I get it. No shit.

This sucks. So she said also she was annoyed at Will, who was mopey that night. So they said, well, didn't he text you after he'd been first interviewed by the police to tell you that you know you should draw i picked you up and all that and she said she didn't tell police she possessed anna's phone and accessed anna's facebook account on it she said at first i didn't know as i didn't know i don't know he just handed me a phone and i just had a phone she's looking at her fucking she was on her facebook yeah of a dead woman. And they said that she said, well, she was having phone troubles in the days before,

and Will had given her a phone to use for its GPS to help her navigate as she drove her cab, obviously. I just needed ways. You don't understand. That's it. She said as she looked at her phone, she realized it had been logged into Anna's Facebook account. So she said she looked at Anna's messages, translated some from Russian using Google Translate. Wow. And realized that Will had been saying negative things about Michelle here, about herself, to Anna. She said that she called him and yelled at him about giving her a phone that Anna had used as well as the things he'd been saying about her on top of it.

You're going to give me a phone full of messages about shitty things about me about me she said she initially told the police that she had given the phone back to will but now thinks she must have thrown it away because she doesn't know if she gave it to will so you knew it was her phone then you don't know what you did with it even though by then you knew she was a dead murdered person okay i don't believe any of this shit so then the defense attorney asked her why it took so long to tell the police she had the phone and she said she didn't tell them because she didn't tell them until september that she had the phone at any point oh my god yeah she said that the phone was large so she thought it was a tablet, and she never knew it was actually Anna's phone. A tablet.

She said, he gave me this phone because my phone was fucked up. So I took this phone, but I didn't know it was Anna's phone, even though she was logged into her Facebook in it. And I didn't know it was a phone, even though I asked for a fucking phone, and he handed me this. Didn't know. It was a Samsung, so I'm not used to that. Holy balls. The green bubbles were annoying, too. Yeah, that was annoying.

She said that she hadn't put all the pieces together until September when she told the cop. Took her six months. How dumb are all these people? They're all idiots. Fuck. All of you put on your Star Wars pajamas and fuck off. I swear to God. She said, I did not talk about the phone.

It was one detail in a myriad of things. Sure. Next, Will's brother testifies there, Kevin. He says, quote, he was my best friend. I called him a brother. Yeah. Said they worked together and this guy became friends with Michelle as well. And they became this guy became friends with Michelle as well. And that woman, they basically said that he describes two conversations in which Will said that he was struggling to choose between the two ladies. And also he had conversations with Michelle where she expressed frustration with the situation.

They're talking about other things. He keeps saying that he's struggling to remember details. This Thomas guy said it's a long time. And he said, quote, my memory's always been fairly poor. So that doesn't help much. So they ask him about his memory of eating dinner with Hargrove at the KFC days before she was killed, making him describe where he left the garbage from that meal in Hargrove's vehicle. The garbage was later obviously found by Anna. The receipt had his name on it, blah, blah, blah.

He told the jury that Will had borrowed a gun from him, saying he wanted to go shooting. So he goes through all that. They said, hey, what about the Gypsy Jokers motorcycle gang? Did Will ever mention that? And he said, yes. He said that Will said that Michelle had a family member in the gang, but that he wasn't around at the time of Anna's death. So he also remembers that he saw Michelle pick Will up from the peacock on the night the prosecutors think that he was killed, that Anna was killed because. He spent that night with Michelle.

Oh, Easter, Easter Sunday night with Michelle. He ended up meeting back up. He went to the Peacock, like we said, and then they met back up. Banged her in the car, went and cried his eyes out, and then went back and banged her again. Yeah, exactly. So the cross-examination also, they ask about her state of mind, about maybe Michelle's state of mind. Does this guy know anything about that and thomas said that his that michelle's feeling about the situation with har grove was multi-faceted but he definitely heard from michelle that jealousy was a big part of it

so stevie ray here they she says that will had never said anything bad about anna that comes out to her and said that uh one of the times though that that she had talked to Anna on the phone, quote, she said Will had been drinking a lot and that he had gotten violent with Anna. Anna told her this, which, I mean, drunk and violent for a Russian guy is considered pretty standard. But in Oregon, it's a little less. So in the Gypsy Jokers, what about them? Well, Michelle's mom comes out. And the Gypsy Jokers, what about them?

Well, Michelle's mom comes out. She testifies and says that, you know, she found out about all this over Christmas of 2015. She was encouraging her daughter to concentrate on her marriage, break up with this fucking idiot and all this type of shit. And they said, hey, Michelle threatened that will that is that her stepfather's connection with the Gypsy Jokers gang would make her would make him not tell on her for killing this young lady she said her husband who she separated from um is a member of a disabled veterans motorcycle club but she's not aware of them having any kind of name and definitely they're not the gypsy jokers they're not they're not they're just old guys who ride Harleys to try to forget about the shit they've been through. It's fucking wild. It's fucking wild.

Yeah, the DAV. That's so funny. She said that his motorcycle club is a social group that does toy drives and rides to support members of the armed forces. She added that he works in information technology and has to have a regular background checks because he works on security projects and he also has bad knees and cataracts so he's not a he's not like a mr biker gang gonna beat you up with a fucking whip you with it's gonna chain whip you in a parking lot he's an it guy who's got bad knees and eyes veteran that can't see nor run yeah it's fucking ridiculous so they said also what about your daughter's behavior on the day anna was killed and she said that her daughter left the family

gathering for about an hour came back she seemed sad before leaving and when she came back she seemed much happier yeah jamie Klotz says the same thing. Klotz was also asked about messages that were exchanged with Michelle one night. I think Jamie Klotz is a man, is a woman. Oh, really? I thought Jamie Klotz

was a guy. Now I think Jamie Klotz is a woman. I didn't know because I never saw Jamie Klotz. It could go either way here. It doesn't matter either way. Jamie Klotz said that they exchanged messages I never saw Jamie Klotz. So it could go either way here. It doesn't matter either way. So, yeah, Jamie Klotz said that they exchanged messages, and Michelle had asked Klotz if she would hate her if she had to build a snowman. That's what it was. So Klotz said that the line is a joke in the Chavez family, and she knew about that. So she also showed the messages to the police in September as well,

and they said, why didn't you bring the messages sooner to the police? And she said of all her, that all of her devices were seized by police and search warrants. Uh, they served after the arrest. She said she thought police already had the messages cause they had a fucking fake took her phone. She said she didn't realize police did not have the messages until a

subsequent meeting with them. And they told her another time they find George Clark Corvallis resident. He said he became friends with them. He's an older guy. Became friends with Hargrove a few years ago, and they'd go shooting in the woods sometimes outside of Alsea. He said one of those occasions, Michelle came along. Oh?

And this guy said, we all took turns using Wills 45. Michelle handled it well from what I could see. She's not a good shot, but she's not a bad shot. They said after two or three weeks, this guy, that after Will was arrested, after a couple weeks, Michelle came to his house alone. And she said she drove up and parked and came up and said, are we still friends? And a little later in the conversation, Michelle made a statement that she didn't know how to shoot when this guy you know how to shoot you're not a bad

shot yeah so she was like laying and thing well i don't even know how to shoot right he's like yeah you do what are you talking about and he said the statement just came out of the blue and seemed very yeah they weren't talking about their skill levels of shooting they're talking about something she goes man i really am terrible i can't shoot at all. Wow. Like she was like, what? What the fuck are you talking about? I was talking about pasta. Yeah.

And then she said that he said later on, a few weeks later, he talked to her again and she made the same. She said the same thing. She made sure to slip into the conversation that she can't shoot at all. His wife, Rose, said she overheard both conversations and she heard Michelle tell her husband that she didn't know how to handle a gun. She said that Michelle had come to the house alone a third time, but her and her husband were out on the way to a doctor's appointment and

didn't have time to talk. So, yeah. Um, they said that, um, that they could bring Stevie Ray up again. And they say that it's because she is convicted of theft,

I guess. Oh, at one point. Um, yeah, there was a problem there. So they were trying to discredit her testimony or trying to get it on the record.

So say she wasn't trying to lie. Defense rests, closing arguments. Okay. Oh boy. The prosecutor addresses the court for almost three hours. What? Summing up everything we just told you that we don't have to go over again because it's all the evidence we just told you.

And but the prosecution basically has to just convince the jury that it's Will and Will alone. Right. Not Michelle. Don't think it's Michelle. Think it's Will. So he said, quote, that there has been testimony from Michelle. She went on the witness stand and he said, quote, What did Michelle Chavez say to you? I never killed Anna and I feel horrible, horrible about what happened to her.

You might not like Michelle Chavez. You might not like her lifestyle. You might not like her choices. But that doesn't help. That doesn't place her at the scene. That doesn't place her hand on the trigger. All the evidence points to the defendant. Right.

The defense says, when considering the state's evidence in this case, I don't want you to necessarily consider the quantity of evidence. You know, because that makes us look terrible. There's a fuckload of it. Don't look at the pile, the giant mountain of evidence. Look at the quality of the evidence. He says, the state has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. All you have to do to find my client not guilty is find a reasonable alternative. He switched words.

He said reasonable doubt, set that up, and said reasonable alternative, which isn't the same thing. Nope. But he set that up. He said that they focused on Will from the beginning. They never considered the possibility that anyone else did it or helped. They said law enforcement is supposed to explore every possible angle of the case. Well, we've talked about that many times. That's not how murders work.

No, they don't have to. They go, whatever. They follow the evidence. They grab it and they follow that until there's a dead end and then they go to something else. And if it feels like that dead end is plausible enough to be the answer, that's what they run with. If the dead end is the husband and the dead wife and you go, where were you? And he goes, I was at the gym playing basketball with 12 other guys. That's a dead end.

Now you go to the next person. He's the first. You know, that's what you do. He said the question becomes, did the state do its due diligence in investigating Ms. Chavez? My contention is that it did not. Now, physical evidence, he's going to say, approves his case. And this is interesting, actually. Showing photos of the body of the murder scene and citing forensic evidence, he argues that the fatal shot was shot fired from a downward angle while the victim was standing.

Oh, he said that my client is what? Too short. Fucking short to do that. While Chavez is several inches taller than both of them. Okay. They said even if Hargrove did shoot her, the state failed to prove that he killed her intentionally and not by accident or through negligence. Maybe they were just farting around in the woods with shotguns and he blew the back of her head off. Who knows?

with shotguns and he blew the back of her head off. Who knows? He also questioned the validity of the evidence, saying that the cell phone tracking reports placed both of their phones at the general area of the crime scene, meaning Michelle and Will, at the afternoon of the murder and cited a disclaimer from the carrier saying location information

is not 100% accurate, which is true. The video also, they said that appears to show dark spots on his head, blood spatter. It's grainy. It's unclear. You can't say that's blood spatter from here, which, again, true. Hard to do. He called the evidence of blood and genetic material on his clothes inconclusive because the testing came back inconclusive because he probably washed it first.

And questioned why didn't investigators submit any of Michelle's clothing to be tested for DNA evidence? It would have been useful information to have, but the state chose not to do it. He said, that's right. He also said that his client's fingerprint was on the shotgun, but that didn't prove he used it to kill Anna, only that he handled it, and he called the juror's attention to a fingerprint on one of the spent shotgun shells found in the Xterra.

That's Michelle's fingerprint. Oh. Yes, which it could have rolled in a seat, and she could have picked it up and thrown it in the back, but still. They were in that car after's fingerprint. Oh. Yes. Which it could have rolled in a seat and she could have picked it up and thrown it in the back. But still. They were in that car after it happened. She probably pushed one out of the way

while blowing him. Who knows. They said that's the connection between Ms. Chavez and the crime scene. Or he shot her and she picked up the fucking shell. Maybe. Yeah.

Because they found no shell at the scene. Oh. You can never tell which one but that's the problem the problem yeah they said why isn't the state following up on that they said michelle may have been submissive in their sex life but she was the one who controlled most aspects of their relationship they painted will as a weak and indecisive man who couldn't choose even between two women like a pussy so he said is there any plausible explanation other than that she's trying to cover for herself

i submit to you the answer is no he says common sense and reason say the the rebuttal from the prosecution is common sense and reason say he killed her not chavez now verdict comes in guilty of murder yeah will is yeah two counts of identity theft two counts of second degree theft as well all right sentencing yeah sentencing they said that uh the their separate acts is what the prosecutor said the murder and all the other thing they said he formed a separate intent he had opportunity to pause and reflect they say he deserves the maximum sentence that the law allows and it was a sweet caring innocent person she said he lured her to the united states isolated her in a vulnerable position and then took her money after he killed her so he could buy jammy jams and video games and legos like a fucking nine-year-old and a bar tab

and a bar tab and michelle michelle even talks during this and she said no one deserves what he did to her and said that she feels terrible and blah blah blah. She had her life isn't the same. She had to move to fucking New York to get away from this. And she said because of him I'll never get my life back. Her her brother and his brother gave a statement from the court from Russia. And it just simply says quote the murder doesn't deserve any words from us. Not bad. They handle shit different over there.

Yeah. You, sir. We'd love to put some rice in his underwear. Yeah, that's what we're very interested in. You, sir, may fuck off life in prison with the possibility of parole in 25 years. Wow. I don't think he's that old. And also an additional 454 days in prison for the other instances. And that's kind of his time served already, though.

That's great. He will be subject to post-prison supervision for life if paroled as well. Oh, boy. prison supervision for life if paroled as well oh boy the aftermath michelle says she's living under the scrutiny of people in town wondering if she killed somebody uh she's asked how bad did it get for you she said bad enough and they said bad and she said bad but it's pretty bad it's pretty bad jamie said she had an incident when which she couldn't take the stress anymore and almost and almost didn't get the police there in time. I wonder if she was threatening to kill herself or something.

Yeah. So they said that in June – and then she says in June 2008 she tried to kill herself. She said, I tried to die. I'm still here. It didn't work. Jamie, stop. Yeah. So the prosecutor said, I think you have to remember Anna as the sweet, loving, caring person who put herself out there to be loved because Anna was loved.

She was loved alive and she was loved after. And then her ashes were flown back to Russia, by the way. That's good. Fully good here. Wills filed an appeal. I don't know if that's going to work out for him, though. He seems pretty fucked. There he is. He's in jail. He's in prison. prison that is ouchy oregon and a wild ass story wow james that what the fuck pot you weren't kidding uh no time travel and everything else mixed in here nobody bakes it like jimmy p unbelievable that's fucking wild shit there so i don't even know what to say about that that's we don't every week it gets weirder that's all i have to say every fucking episode so if you enjoy that, enjoy this weirdness. Tell the world about it.

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Gets you not only the whole back catalog of a couple hundred bonus episodes, but that new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. What do you get access to, Jimmy? Everything. Every goddamn fucking drop of it. That's right. Every stupid, crazy thing we talk about. And this week is no different.

For crime and sports, you're going to get, we're going to go back to the 1910s here, the teens, and have a theme. First, we're going to talk about the 1919 Chicago Black Sox. They threw the World Series. There was gangsters involved. There's a John Cusack movie. It's very interesting. Ray Liotta's in it.

There's a lot of stuff going on. We'll talk all about that. Jones' brother got work over this. Come on, man. And then for small-town murder, we're going to talk about some crazy shit that's not small towns or even really murder. But we're going to talk about weird Titanic stories. There's some weird shit that you don't know about that just wasn't in the movie or any of that it's in deep in their testimonies of survivors though a lady just threw her baby away and then got on a lifeboat like nothing happened so check that out and we'll also talk about a few

other mysteries of the sea a couple of big boat crashes as well so that's patreon.com slash crime and sports and you get a shout out you bet and you get that shout out jimmy right goddamn now hit me with those fucking names like a shotgun to the skull right this instant jimmy this week's executive producers are michael or maybe mikhail or maybe mccall white that person thank you fabulous person. Willis Tanya, or maybe it's Tanya Willis. Give them to us both ways. As well as Kyle Norweg. Really, really hammering at home, Kyle. Thank you.

Other producers this week are Mother Jefferson and her lover, Mr. Bentley, Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Melissa Meadows, Jax with no last name, Martin Corpse, or maybe Cor, I'm not sure, Austin Peterson, Sydney Kaye, Douglas Brophy, Rachel Smith, Jennifer Farrell, Pharrell maybe, Pamela Hall, Elliot Fenton, Crackatola, I think, Brian Ashley, Evan Folsom, Becca Burke, Dwayne Doerr, Doerr maybe, Sigil, Sigil, Sigil, Samantha Gillen, I would know, wait, that is the last name. Jessica Mabry, Donnie Powell, Matt Ridd, I think Laura Rouse. Emily Miller, Brian would know last name.

Clayton DeShong, Shane would know last name. Andrew Reed, Chelsea Cozart, Highland Abe, Adelaide Voss, Nicholas Morgan, Colby Pantalonian. Pantalonis. All right. Pantaleonis. Pantaleonis. Pantaleoni.

Oh, boy. Pantaleoni. Oh, boy. Pantaleoni. That's it. Joey Pants. Yes, it's Colby Pants. Mike Donald. Christy Martell. Derek Shelnut.

Shelnut. Scott Combs. Vincent Gigante. Glorification. Vinny the Chin. Yeah, that's Vinny. Glorifica. Glorifica.

Dee Cameron. Doshia Leah. Doshia Leah. Okay. Jessica O Cameron Doshia Leah Jessica O Nadia Malik Megan Fata Malin Oscarson

Summit PDR Laura Rabelais Rabelais Alright, Rabal it up. Mitchell Cadret, Mike Hoyt, Tony Chambers, Greg Prowse, Kelly Meyer, LJ with no last name, Clint Broad Borges, Don Mattesoni, Mattesoni, all right, Mattesoni. It's a Mattesoni. There it is.

Emerald Seeley, Donna Sutton. Benjamin Williams. Nina. Degield. Degield. Hanson. Garney. What? Holmes.

Charles Davis. Chris. I'm lost. I am not. Chris Wooding. Laura Hill. Jeffrey Sensing. John Gilpatrick.

Peggy Downing. Shara Spiller. Jessica Turner. Angie C. Marquesa. Washington. Chanel Henry. Chanel Henry. Chanel. Chanel, Samantha Connelly, Julie Koloboski, Ali Katt, Braden with no last name, Charles with no last name, Angie Wheatley, Jamie Witkowski, Joan with no last name, Danielle Yost, Maya Hammett. Tara Love. Dia Coffelt.

Coffelt. Sarah Jane Mueller. What is this? Naina. Naina Johnson. Kim with no last name. Ryan Opatril. Opatril.

Steven. Steven D. Ethan F. Kira Apple. Dylan with no last name. Jessica Pritchard. jesse davis cynthia labonte uh devin clark keith with no last name jennifer sukup salkup uh i think it's sukup ariel mcfly matt phillipus okay uh jesse greenwell alley with no last name, Powell, Powell, Klinger, Shauna Arnold, Jeremiah Spiller, Doc McDoodle, Jimmy Witt, Mia, Mia Frederick, Stephanie Kendrick, Stephanie Kendrick. I know her. Aida Blackhawk, Blackhawk.

All right. Ninja with no last name. Prism, Prism, Dakar, Dakar, Dr. Anderson, Noah Schumacher, Melanie Carter, Manuel Correa, Nora Pudo, Heather with no last name, Timothy Ronaldo, Kayla Richardson, Colleen Taute-Lagrice, Chelsea Rowland, Chris Santos, Ariana Buss, Brittany with no last name, Marino with no last name. Paul Hopkins. Dean Burns. Tony Gio. Kate Swinn. Michelle Lindroth. Casey Neverdosky. Yep.

Costantinos Pappas. Kathy Arendt. Kathy Arendt, I think. Your new stepdaddy. He signed up also. Corey Valerie. Emma Peek. Zach Wiley. Eric Lindgren. Canna Crump, Nick Rosenberger,

Callie Rhodes Outlaw, Robin Rousseau, Brianna Collins, Brittany Crisal, Shanna Brianne, Sean with no last name, Sheila Galladay, Al the Fifth, Angie Palmer, RV, no last name, an RV. An RV, James, just a Winnebago. Just a big old RV, that's nice. A big holiday man. That's awfully nice. George Banfield, Leslie Kazanwaddle, Carlin Osborne, Mrs. Coe, Nicolette Martino, Joshua, no last name, Justin Banks, Elizabeth Strader, Emma Beckett, Don Nelson, Andrew Briggs, Cole Younger, and Rimkus, oh boy,

Deborah Adler, Ryan Ramadan, Sheila Garcia, Kool-Aid, Michael Varadian, Renee Callahan, Michael Varadian, Renee Callahan, Joey Fairchild, Jody Fairchild, God damn it, Tiff Nogg, Greg4840, Patrick Holloway, Heidi Brown, Cole Lake, Jonathan Parker, Gary Friedman, Gary, there you are, Samuel Butcher, Daniel Hansman, Charlotte T, Scott Dennis, Justin Pepper, Pepper, Pepperado, Nagham, Nagham, Dabble. Okay. Nagham, Dabble. Corey Williams, Molly Hood, Kristen Cianfici, Cianfici, Casey Roeder, Jess Hui, Hui, Hui. That's what it is. Kylie Go, Goff maybe. Perhaps it's Goff.

Darren Darrow. Darren Darrow. Donna Violette? Violette. William Hawkins. Cassie Strauss. Gabby with no last name. Zoe Belford.

Anthony Helmrichs. Keith with no last name. Cody Chapin. Beverly Ellis. God damn it. David Allen. Christy Harris. Jesse Jones.

And all of our patrons. You're amazing. Thank you, everybody, Jesse Jones, and all of our patrons. You're amazing. Thank you, everybody, so much from the bottom of our hearts. We cannot thank you. We can't thank you enough, honestly. Thank you for all that you do for us. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me a murder.com. Links to all that shit.

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