Small Town Murder - #409 - Cousins, Lovers & Killers - Summerfield, North Carolina

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

This week, in Summerfield, North Carolina, a very unlikely couple, decide to take on their families, and everyone else they feel has wronged them, with horrifying, murderous results. Why are they an unlikely couple? Because they're first cousins, from a very prominent high society family. They turn out to have more in common than blood, because they're both liars, and maybe more than a little insane. Together, they are responsible for 9 deaths!!Along the way, we find out that we have no idea what ladderball is, that it's never a good idea to hook up with your first cousin, and that Vitamin C may not cure polio!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Summerfield, North Carolina, a very unlikely couple, both of them gigantic liars, decide to take on everyone they know with deadly and insanely murderous results. Welcome to Small Town Murder. hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name

is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us on another insane edition of small town murder and today oh man is this a just a crazy holy shit this it incorporates all of our elements in one it's wild this is just a good week here for for craziness before we get to that though definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com what's there you may ask well first all, merch and stuff like that. But tickets to live shows, more important. Get there August 12th, Chicago. It is our biggest show ever, and we're so excited.

We can't wait to get there. We're putting together a Chicago-only live show that you're only going to see in Chicago. So come on out. Still some tickets left. So get out there and have a ball. Have the biggest small-town murder party that's ever happened in Chicago, because that's exactly what it is, August 12th.

And then tickets left for just a few dates. They're mostly sold out. But Dallas, Charlotte, Atlanta, some tickets left there. Few left in Philly but not many. So get in there and get your tickets right now. Shut up and give me murder.com. You also definitely want Patreon in your life. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of the bonus materials and holy shit are there plenty plenty plentiful anybody five dollars a month or above just a cup of coffee really you're gonna get not only the whole back catalog immediately of a couple hundred bonus episodes it is bountiful bountiful but it's a bountiful binge everyone yeah but then you get new ones every other week, which is also great. This week, no different, which you're going to get for crime and sports, which, of course, you have access to. We're going to talk about it's part two of theme park disasters.

We had to do it because the first one was just so much crazy fun. So we were like, we have to do that again ASAP. So we're doing that then for small town murder, one that we've been asked to do a lot, actually. The Stanford prison experiment, which if you don't know what that was, early 70s, Stanford, the university. They took a group of students and did a little psychological experiment. Half of you are guards. Half of you are prisoners. Let's see how that works out.

And, oh, man, was it wild. So we'll talk about all that. That's patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that. And you also get a shout out at the end of the show where Jimmy's going to mispronounce your name. It's going to be probably brutal, but he means well. So get in there.

He really is. Sorry about that. We, we do appreciate it. And also your stupid opinions. We'll give you a date here in a minute because they're going to do a little bit of marketing for it and everything. It's finally all squared away.

We're so excited. We can't wait. We're going to talk about everybody's stupid reviews from the internet of just about and then we're talking everything it's yeah the first episode there's wow there's some some products even that you gotta hear about holy shit yeah it's not just places and things so we can't wait quickly before we get to the show disclaimer yeah this is a comedy show we're comedians people are gonna die and this week lots of them, and a lot of people are going to die this week, and we're going to make jokes. But here's the thing that we do here. What makes it okay is we don't make jokes at the expense of the victims or the victims' families.

Why, James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. See how that works? Yeah. Very simple. It's so easy. It's a good rule of life to live by. Be an asshole, but don't be a scumbag, and you're going to be all right.

So that's what we're doing here. Anybody who doesn't think true crime and comedy ever have any reason to be in the same planet, on the same planet, in the same sphere at all, then I don't know. You might not like the show. I don't know what to tell you. You might, though. Either way, we warn you, so no bitching later. That's how this works.

So that said, for everyone else who wants to hear, I mean, just a wild ass story, just crazy, crazy, crazy. I think it's time. What do you say, everyone? To sit back. Let's all clear the lungs, arms to the sky to make it rain. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, Jimmy. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are going all the way to North Carolina this week. We've been out west for a few weeks there, Oregon last week. We're going to be there physically very soon. We are. We're going to be in Salt Lake City here. Raleigh. Oh, Raleigh.

No, we're not in Raleigh this year. We're in Charlotte. Is it Charlotte? We're in Charlotte is where we are here. I was closer there. So this is Summerfield, North Carolina. And a lot of this is a story that people are from Reidsville. But the actual thing that happened was in Summerfield. So we went with Summerfield. But it could have been Reidsville because that's where kind of this whole tale kind of sprung from. This is in central North Carolina. It's about, it's less than a half hour outside Greensboro. I guess it would be like a suburb of Greensboro. It's about an hour and a half to Raleigh, about, you know, about a half hour to High Point,

which was our last North Carolina episode. Birds of a Violent Feather. That was a fun one. It was another murder bird show. So many birds this is in gulliford county area codes got a couple of them three six six or three three six and seven four three motto here is a it's when you're talking about small towns in north carolina you got to be a little careful with these mottos respectful of the past focused on the future are you it's like listen that's like we're trying to satisfy everybody

okay like you know i'm sorry i get that you like to reenact the confederacy on weekends sometimes so we're respectful of this and also focused on the future of you know hopefully not everyone you know we're we're looking for a middle ground is what they're talking about here you know so history of this town. It was Summerfield and it traces back to 1769. Jesus. Which is old school here. Charles Bruce, old Chucky Bruce here, bought 640 acres in what's now Summerfield.

And during the Revolutionary War, because that was pre-Revolutionary War, his home was the birthplace of a group of patriots known as the Friends of Liberty. So a lot of, yeah, a group of revolutionary kind of a unit came from here. During the Revolution, Charles Bruce acted as a recruiting officer and assisted the American army in the fight against the British locally. Yeah. So the community that developed here was called bruce's crossroads until 1812 and they changed it to summerfield because they were like you know that guy was great and all but i mean it's been a while i haven't seen him in a while actually it

was an evangelist named john summerfield who preached in a revival in the area and then settled here and they were like he's just the best, that John Summerfield. Let's name our town after him. Brewstown or some shit? Nope. Jesus. John Summerfield. Lucky it wasn't John Summerfield's evangelist, you know, Wonder Town or some crazy, you know, like the PTL thing

when they did the theme parks. Just turned it into some kind of Bible theme park or some shit. My God. Like PTL, because that was in North Carolina too, the PTL. Was it? Yeah, their whole thing, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. I read a book. We'll do a bonus episode on them.

So in the early years, it's all agriculture here, as a lot of these rural places are. They grew corn, tobacco. They had some cattle and all sorts of shit like that. But then there was stores and businesses started popping up because people who were farmers needed to buy stuff. And then once there's stores and businesses, then people can work there, and then people who aren't farmers can live there, and then that's how towns form.

Now it's a city. Now it's a town. So reviews of this town. Let's find out what people think of Summerfield. They really seem to like it. That's one thing. Here's five stars. Okay.

Summerfield is an amazing town. And being next to Greensboro, you get the peace of a small town when you return home, but the energy and life of a suburban city nearby. That's a good way to put Greensboro, suburban city. It's a city, but it's not like Tucson. You know what I mean? It's not a metropolis, but it is a city. There are amazing parks and lakes nearby.

So if you're an outdoor person, there's a lot of opportunities to fish and hike and jog everyone here is inclusive and nice in addition there are amazing schools in summerfield northwest middle and high school in summerfield are in summerfield and so is northern middle and high school great we don't go well oh that those names ring out across the country oh you're kidding northern middle school the school is there holy shit i it's what's the why did they name it after somebody what's the location just that's northern western uh here's four stars summerfield is a beautiful place to live especially because it is right next to a bigger city greensboro there are many festivals events and great places to eat there are also lots of activities, particularly for youth. There are plenty of parks, gyms, churches, and classes

to push people out of their comfort zones. Rock climbing and dance classes are just a few. Okay. Jesus, all right there, fucking concierge of Somerville. I would love to watch you doing some rock climbing or some dancing. I'll climb a rock. I don't care. I like climbing shit, but I'm not going to. I'm going to put you into a rock climbing class. I don't mind rock climbing or some or some dancing um i'll climb a rock i don't care like climbing shit but

i'm not gonna put you into a rock climbing class i don't mind rock climb i like to climb shit i'm pretty good yeah but it's not it's not gonna be i want to watch that too it's not gonna be like a a rock in in the in the in the wilderness it's a fucking wall with those little grips i want to stupid i don't want to do that. That's just stupid. I mean, it's fun if that's what you like, but I'd go, I don't want to climb that right now. That's dumb. Well, what's the point?

I get to the top of, what, the ceiling, and then I come down again? I mean, at least if you get to the top of a rock, there's a view. You're going there for something. Pull up that false ceiling, climb in, and go steal a jewel somewhere. That's all I can think to do at that point.

That's why I like to play sports, but I can't exercise because there's no... Where am I going? Yeah, there's no goal. No. You can't score a touchdown with push-ups. That's what I'm saying. Like Kenny Powers.

I ain't trying to be the best at fucking exercising. It's one of those, man. Here's three stars. Okay uh i would live here again i would recommend this area for others schools are mediocre but if you live in the right place the school is okay so you gotta live in a nice neighborhood is what they're telling you have some money yeah otherwise you're getting a shit education just like everywhere else i was gonna say i think that review can pretty much go for anywhere if you have money it's okay you'll be all right you're gonna know your abc's early you'll figure it out you're probably in a nice part of town things are all right they're popping uh here's three stars oh participation in sports is imperative in my

community with the majority of school funding going towards sports. My high school can get money. So this is a student, I feel like. My high school can get money to build a new football stadium, but it cannot fund the orchestra classes to get them out of the trailers and into a classroom. There's nothing worse than classical music coming from a trailer. It's just too, it doesn't go together. Oh, yeah, there is. Incongruous.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Granted, it is great to see a community so united over one activity. School spirit is always highest whenever there's a football game, and my school's student section is always bursting with pride. But it is disheartening to see the inequality in funding among various activities at my school. Regardless of this difference, moving to Summerfield was the best thing for my family. Back in New Jersey, my community was,

wow, that's a talk about culture shock. Holy shit. This guy hasn't, he hasn't had a decent sandwich in months. He's back in New Jersey. My community was experiencing constant, experiencing constant robberies,

making my family fearful for going into, into our own house. Wow. Because there might be people in there. But ever since our move, our fear has significantly lessened because of the caring environment that my family and I now live in. Well, yeah, no one's going to rob your house here. There's nobody here.

And speaking of that, this is how many people are here. People, population, 11,026 people live in this place. It's a good-sized size town but it's not it's not yeah it's out it's a suburb of a suburban city so it's a suburb of a small city it's a nice little town um male female few more females than male it's about average there median age is higher than normal oh it's 49.3 it's usually like 38 So that is really high. All the older people, 68% married here. Oh, this is, yeah, you move out here to wrap it up. Yeah. So your kids can run around on a lawn. That's what this is. Um, it's a lot of people married with children race in this town. 91.9% white. Oh, that's pretty white for a North Carolina like town that's outside of a city, not too far outside of a city here. Two point three percent black, one point three percent Asian and three point four percent Hispanics. It's a white town religion in this town.

Forty nine point six percent religious. So right about the 50 50. And as you might imagine here the highest percent highest concentration is of the baptists obviously as we know baptists are the catholics of the south as we we know here last election uh gulliford county said which is where this is or gulford not gulliford goy gulliford g-u-i-l? Goyle, like how Popeye says girl? Yeah. Guilford?

Oh, it's Guilford, like guilty probably. Yeah. Guilford County. Sorry, North Carolina people. 60.8% of the people voted for the Democrats, 37.7% voted Republican, and 1.4% voted Independent. 1.4%, that is. Unemployment rate here is about normal average. The median household income here is certainly not average.

It's about twice the national average, almost. $102,713 is the median household income. They're killing it. You move here when you have money. That's what this is. This is a, you have to. Median home cost here tells you that right away. You're not coming here if you're struggling because median home cost $420,600 here.

That is rough. So if we've talked you into it, damn it, you're going to come to Summerfield. And I don't know what you're going to do here, but you're going to enjoy a nice suburban something. We have for you the Summerfield, North Carolina Real Estate Report. All right. Your average two-bedroom rental here seems like the way to go with how high the housing is. $1,100, which is cheap, actually. Cheaper than the national average. Here is a, it's on 1.55 acres, so a good-sized lot here. Three-bedroom, two-bath. I don't know what to do to talk about this. It's a dump.

Let's just be real. There's some chicken coops out back that look like the chickens have long escaped from them because they're not. Yeah, I don't even know what the hell's going on. They ate each other. Yeah, it looks like it's a farm that is too small to be a farm. Like, someone said, let's start a farm, and then they went, oh shit, we have less than two acres here. All we can afford is an acre and a half. That'll be enough.

That's not going to be good. It seems like a lot. In one of the ceilings in the house, there is newspaper stuck into the ceiling. Yeah. For some reason. I suppose for insulation of some kind in a hole in the ceiling. It's old.

Not good. $250,000 for this, though. Three-bedroom, two-bath. Nothing here has square footage, by the way. North Carolina, we've gone through this before. They don't advertise square footage, so you have to kind of look at it and go, I don't know, it's a big house or it's a small house. They buy the acres, not the house.

It's weird. Here's a three-bedroom, four-bath. It's fine. I mean, it's a small house they they buy the acres not the house it's weird here's a three bedroom four bath it's fine i mean it's okay it's got a nice porch outside yeah so the weird thing is going up the stairs there is it's all normal and then going up the stairs is just this mural of like a stream and like outdoors oh but it looks goofy man it's not a good mural it's not good it looks like they let their kid do it. It's not great. Their kid, they're like, he has some talent. We let him draw things.

Draw some trees and shit. Not wonderful. $589,900 for this house, though. And it's on less than an acre, too. So it's not even a big property. And here is a four-bedroom, six-bath T-bowl for each and every b-hole on one acre of land. It's a four-bedroom, six-bath tea bowl for each and every b-hole on one acre of land. It's a big house. It looks like it has a shitload of bedrooms when you go through the whole thing.

It looks like one room has guitars hanging on the wall. I don't know if this person made some money in the music industry or what's going on here. One bathroom, though, has a porcelain bust of a horse just sitting there. So there's that. You can have that. It's a big house. No idea on the square footage. $1,725,000 for that, though.

Almost two. Almost $2 million for this house, which I would say hell fucking no on that one. I don't think so. Things to do here. Founders Day. What is that? Founders Day, which is like town, they do this all the time. In Funny Farm, that's the event they went to where Chevy Chase hooked the guy.

That's at Founders Day. All those small towns do this a lot here. It's a two-day celebration that honors the original founders of Bruce's Crossroads, as well as a second set of founders who worked to incorporate the town in 1996. What? We're going to celebrate them, too. They did paperwork in the 90s, Jimmy. 200 years later, they were like, oh, we're not.

Yeah, we should probably do something here. Someone had to download a form and fill it out. I mean, really, that was a... 200 years. They had to get on AOL. They had to wait. It was kind of a pain in the ass. So it kicks off, the evening festivities kick off with the local high school band. Shit, yeah.

Who doesn't want to watch that? Get those kids out of their trailers. Brr, brr, brr. That's all it is every time. Yeah. Over and over again off timings on the cymbals and shit and you're like jesus christ local high school band a vocal concert they don't say by who i assume by a singing concert chorus people carnival rides that i'm sure a singing concert of course people carnival rides

that i'm sure are very safe yeah extra safe carnival rides and no one running them a smoking crack at all i'm sure you can have a nice a nice soundtrack to your death yeah it's gonna be great help it hurts so bad oh Oh, God. Humanity. Oh, God, why is my arm all the way over there? There's so much blood. Help us, God. Save us from this. How long, oh, Lord, how long?

There's also inflatables. Great. A rock wall. They're obsessed with rock climbing here. And food trucks, of course. And then there's going to be live music, carnival rides. There's going to be a pony. Oh, a pony.

It says ride along a pony. I don't know if that means next to a pony. Stand next to the pony. Ride along a pony doesn't sound like you're riding on a pony. I don't know if that means next to a pony. Stand next to the pony. Ride along a pony doesn't sound like you're riding on a pony, does it? No. I don't know. Take in the live music. Stop by the face painter and balloon artist. Please do.

Who doesn't want that? Be drawn by a caricaturist. Come on. Don't you want to know what you'd look like on a skateboard? Everyone does with a giant head. I'm going to look at one thing about you and accentuate the fuck out of it. You're going to have either a giant nose or giant tits. Here we go.

Here we go. Also, try your hand at a new game in the mobile video game trailer. Oh, God. That sounds like fucking, you know. Is that the only way we can get teenage boys out of the fucking house now? Uncle Touchy's game trailer is what that sounds like. I don't like that at all. Come on in, fellas.

No, no. Is it kind of dark in here? Yeah, it's for the games. Come on in. Oh, we're playing a game, all right. Have a drink. I'm trying to get these cuffs off. Why is this can already open?

I opened it for you. Don't worry about it. Oh, boy. Why is this can open already? I don't like this at all. Gross. This sun kiss tastes funny. You got to chug it, son.

No, drink it all at once. It's hot out there. You're going to rehydrate yourself. Boy, come on. Now, there you go. That's better. Now, put these all at once. It's hot out there. You're going to rehydrate yourself, boy. Come on. Now, there you go. That's better. Now, put these cups on.

Now, sit in this chair. I thought we were going to play some Call of Duty or shit. Oh, this is going to be a Call to Duty. Don't you worry. There's going to be Grand Theft something in here. Tell you what. Not going to be auto, though. It's going to be Grand Theft.

Your childhood. It's going to be a lot of red, a lot of redemption hang on that's right if you don't shut up someone's gonna be dead oh i don't like that at all this sounds like not good or touch the sky in the ferris wheel no i'm not riding your temporarily constructed Ferris wheel that you just put up. And also there's a variety of food trucks, carnival rides. They have, oh, you can purchase a one-day wristband and get unlimited rides. Oh. Well, then there's a parade. Holy shit.

Sign up for the parade here. Mainstage Entertainment is, this year, Greensboro Performing Arts will open up the founders day with their performances on friday night then the northern guilford jazz band and repertory company will be on there this is not this isn't good at all this is very very bad and finally cornhole and ladder ball what is ladder i have no idea the open field screams outdoor lawn games. The live music rides. I know what it is. There's two balls that are connected by a rope, and you try to throw them and get it to certain rungs on the ladder. I've seen it. I know what it is.

You've got to be an athlete for that, I see. It's a lot of beer drinking is what it is. That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. It's a beer drinking kind of party. Okay, now I get it. Crime rate in this town. What we're interested in here.

What kind of thing is going on here? Property crime. Right about average. Oh. So, I mean, I don't know. That's a. Yeah. All right.

That's everyone saying I'm safe and wonderful. It's so expensive. Why? Just as bad as everywhere else. I was going to say. Jersey, you should be worried, too. Violent crime. Murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. Mount Rushmore of crime, the all-stars there, is about one-quarter low.

So it's about one-quarter under the national average. Three-quarters of it. Three-quarters of it, though, which, I mean, shit, if I'm paying $420 for a house on the average, I want— I want it safer than that. Yeah, I want little murder rate, and I don't want— The only murders I want to see are if someone's coming to rob me. I want to see them get murdered in the street first before that and go, yeah, that's all

working out there. That's the only time I want to see it. That said, let's talk about, I'm going to say a murder, but some murder because it's way more than a murder. This is a lot of stuff here happening. Let's get into this, Jimmy. Okay. With some one hell of a deep wild story

and this is a type of story that could be a seven part episode you could do a whole series on just this one case so it's one of those where you could tell it as long or as short as as possible so hopefully we picked a good length for this and a good get all the main points out so let's talk about a woman first here yeah all right suzy sharp newsome let's talk about a woman first here. All right. Susie Sharp Newsome. Let's talk about. Okay. And she'll later be Lynch as well.

So add that into there. Sharp Newsome Lynch. Sharp Newsome Lynch. That's a lot. She's born in 1945. My God. And born in Reidsville and here. And she's raised in Winston-Salem. Everybody calls her Susie Q.

Yeah. And that's what everybody calls her, because that was a song back then. Big popular song. So that's it. You're Susie Q now. And then it was a little cake also. Thank you, Creedence. That's it.

Yeah, and that damn little cake as well. Oh, it's the most delicious cake that Hostess ever made. Who makes those? Hostess? It was Hostess, right? Yeah, I think so. Was it Little Debbie? I think it's Hostess. Oh, man. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, it's the most delicious cake that Hostess ever made. Who makes those? Hostess? Hostess makes those. Was it Little Debbie? I think it's Hostess.

Oh, man. Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea now. I think it's Hostess because you see it more. Yeah. Little Debbie's are less available. They're so fucking good. Which ones are they?

What do they have in them? The Sousa Q is just a big fucking sandwich of chocolate cake and then that white weird shit. Oh, so it's a devil dog in a sandwich instead of a hot dog. Fucking fatter. Hamburger version of a devil dog. Yeah, it's so fat. It's so big. Interesting.

That sounds pretty good. Devil's food cake type of deal? Yeah, and it comes two to a pack. Okay. You know what? I think it's just chocolate. It's not devil's food. Devil's food is a little different than chocolate.

It is. It's a little more. It's a little lighter like that okay all right but suzy q is just dark fucking chocolate without shit loads of that white shit in the middle it could go with less of the white filling a little less of the cream okay well suzy q is uh she is pretty and smart and yeah treated like a princess and i think she thinks she's a princess after all as well, as we'll find out. She has like a weird obsession with the royal family, the British royal family. And she really she's real weird.

Yeah, we'll get into her, though. She is named after her aunt, whose name is Susie Sharp. And she is a North Carolina judge who was the country entire United, is first elected female chief justice of a state Supreme Court. Wow. So she's a big deal. The Susie Sharp is her aunt. And the family is, you know, they're smart. Everybody goes to college.

They're that type of family. You know, there's no, like, are you going to go to college? It's which college are you going to? Right, right. You know, unlike my family, which was like, yeah, my family's at college. How are you going to do that? What's wrong with you? You're going to you know unlike my family which was like yeah my family's like college how are you gonna do that what's wrong with you you're going to college yeah finish high school that's seems like it's enough of a hassle for you yeah this is not an option son yes if i said i'm going to college they'd be like what for you're You're just going to go look at it?

You're doing some HVAC there? Some work on a college? Why are you going? Are you working on the college? Somebody sweaty? Oh, no, you're going to be sitting in the college for what? Why would you do that? What?

They're going to kick you out, you know, if you're not in. Oh, you're going to enroll in everything? Wow. They're not going to let you do that. No. You'd have to like get grades to show up for high school first. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So Susie's mother Florence is the Justice's sister. So that's her aunt. It's her mom's sister. So she's very spoiled. Susie. Everybody says

growing up super spoiled and she had temper tantrums that were like insane apparently where she would like freak out and they would have to like physically take her sit her down and pour cold water on her like laurie petty and a league of their own when she's mad about getting taken out of that game and tom hanks has to dump her in the shower and turn the water on that and she goes ah that's that's cool off yeah that's what they are that's what they have to do to her

to a child so wow wow that is pour water on her to pour water on which back then i want it now back then that is preferable to beating the shit out of her which is in the 50s that's what you do to a child 1954 if a kid's acting up you beat that kid until they're silent is what they used to do. So pouring water on them seems like a real humanitarian thing to do here. As long as it's cold and not the opposite. Yeah, yeah. As long as it's not scalding her. So Susie's smart and she's outgoing and she's pretty and she's rich.

Not rich, but has money. She's doing fine. Yeah, she's pretty and she's rich or not rich but has money and she's doing fine yeah she's doing fine she always knew how to like charm her way into getting what she wanted oh she figured out at a young age that if you're you're pretty and speak well and act a certain way that you can pretty much get whatever you want in the world and she figured that out so good for her it takes people a while um usually doesn't make them the world. And she figured that out. So good for her. It takes people a while. Usually it doesn't make them the best personality when they figure that out. They're certainly never funny after that. They're funny for me to laugh at.

Funny to laugh at, but they're definitely not. They're not making anyone laugh, those people. They're not crafting jokes. No, you craft jokes when you're hopeless. You don't craft jokes when you can talk anyone into anything. That's not why you do it. Right. Yeah.

So she always did it too, and she would, like I said, she'd have these tantrums when that didn't work and freak out and all that shit. She grew up basically, her family is like, they're like a throwback of another time, another era. They're like a, the old South aristocracy type of deal. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's what they are.

Like they, like the guy, it seems like her dad would have one of those like Kentucky fried chicken bow ties on with the, it's a bow tie. It's got long things hanging down to bizarre fucking one of those. It's very old school, you know,

kind of the very formal type of thing. It's very old school, you know, kind of very formal type of thing, like like almost Victorian Southern type of the way they are. Southern drawl. Yeah. Stuff like that. Her childhood here. She went to school, obviously, and she went to church and she went to, of course, the Forsyth Country Club for big gatherings as well. I mean, who among us didn't gather at the country club as a child? At the Forsyth. At the Forsyth. She took piano lessons, and her mother and her grandmother would teach her how to comport herself and hand movements, and this is how you'd be graceful and all this.

If you watch The Crown and how this like like if you watch the crown and how they're like trying to train Princess Diana like that's how they like trained her they like you know when you walk you want to be more graceful like this who does that yeah she a lot of her all of her nieces and nephews and everybody

too will call her Susu all the time later on so they also took her aunts and her grandmothers to buy her presents and take her to the railroad depot to see the trains, which I guess in the 50s was an activity. The kids would want to do. In junior high, this is when she became fascinated with the royal family, the British royal family. Just, I mean mean all about it she's her on her walls she had they were covered in pictures from magazines of the royal family it's all she cared about and she wanted to be like that really but american yeah which is really weird every year on the queen's

birthday she would dress up like like she's going to a fucking ball. Really? To go to school. Why you dress up? It's the queen's birthday, stupid, obviously. Because in North Carolina, everybody celebrates the queen of England's birthday. Charlotte was named after one of the queens, right? Yeah, it's a queen's city.

They're called the queen's city, yeah. after one of the queens right yeah it's a queen city they call it the queen city yeah yeah i guess did they just kind of revere revere revere uh royalty because of why would they we started a whole country to tell them to go fuck themselves well yeah there's a lot of people here that are really into royal family and royal shit and it's there always has been i mean it's even since because i think it started with fucking king edward the whole, you know, renouncing the throne to fucking be with a woman and the whole romantic thing that became like this romantic, you know, chivalrous thing. And then people kind of got real into the royal family for some reason. I'm sure they were before, but I know that was a big deal. Until I hear about Eddie Murphy.

Oh, forget it. Yeah, they're going to they're going to go crazy. They go nuts. So she does all of this for some reason. It's an affect, basically. It's a weird affect of I'm like royalty like them, even though she really isn't. You know, your aunt's a judge and you guys have some money and all, but you're still some chick from North Carolina. So, you know, what are you thinking here so she she would continue this all the way through high

school and there was classmates of hers that would make fun of her behind her back about oh the fucking princess over here everybody called her the princess that was like the big thing oh she thinks she's the princess over here so she would carry herself as well like she would act like she was a member of the royal family yeah chin up in the air and you know boy real you know you know graceful and all that shit and sure it's kind of weird in reedsville north carolina in the 50s you know what i'm saying it's kind of weird outside of fucking england yeah it's a little strange a little bit odd here outside of victorian times in america yeah so she goes to force foresight or forsyth high whichever it is north forsyth

everything's gonna have a direction here of course yeah she is an honor student as well she's very smart she gets super into history and she takes part in a lot of school activities but doesn't really hang out with people which is strange so she knows all these people she has friends from the activities and things like that but there's no like oh we're going to suzy's for a slumber party this weekend like that shit doesn't happen we go home it's very weird yeah it's strange even the debutante balls come around oh which they still i think they still do those some places in the south but I don't know what the fuck it means. They used to do them everywhere. Yeah.

And then it really got whittled down to a very specific part of the country where this happens for the most part now, these debutante balls. Is it just like another prom? It's a prom that your family, basically your family throws a big giant prom for their teenage daughters to, quote, introduce them into society. Like, if you want to start trying to marry my daughter, now's the time to do it because now she's, yeah. There's grass on the field, everybody. Like, it's fucking one of those deals. An announcement about it. Yes.

And it's a big thing and you get all dressed up and there's a ball and, you know, it's really weird, honestly. It's fucking weird. So she thought it was awful and would not do it and thought it was beneath her. She thought it was a, quote, gaudy practice of the nouveau rich, rich, whatever. Gaudy new money bullshit. I'm in the royal family, so we don't participate in things like that that's what i mean she thinks she's above it all just just a weird way to be man we'll have the party at my coronation yes you know we'll do that then and everyone will be

there it'll be wonderful and you can just line the streets and wait for me it It'll be great. That's when people know. So she graduates in 1964 from high school, and she goes to Queens College in Charlotte. Very appropriate for her. Perfect. She said she liked it. She had gone to see her aunt in Charlotte, and she had gone there, so she thought she would like it there,

but she ended up missing her home, and so after her sophomore year, she leaves and enrolls in wake forest university oh where's that so that's still it's around raleigh okay there it's kind of outside of raleigh wake forest because it's in the it's in where nc state and duke and ncr wake forest is like a little further away but it's in that region so if the college has a name like that i'll never know where it is wake forest is not named after a city or anything right yeah who the hell knows where that is

muggsy vogues went there he's my favorite player i still didn't know where the fucking was tim duncan went there too oh did he yeah he did he did and there is actually a wake forest basketball connection here as well oh so when she goes to wake forest she is guys like her yeah she's smart she comes for money she's pretty um she's also a fraternity sweetheart what is that i think those a group of girls that they would get that would like escort fraternity guys and have parties with them and shit like that yeah it was like a a club in in college back then i'm pretty sure i've heard about this before so she meets a man that she likes though okay he's on the basketball team oh he's on the wake forest basketball team well before tim

duncan and muggsy bogues are there um guy's name is tom lynch and he's blonde and he's got some he's from a good family as well wealthy family from louisville kentucky he's blonde and he's got some he's from a good family as well wealthy family from louisville kentucky he's from and uh he is two years younger than suzy and but suzy likes him so he's like oh wow this sophisticated she's practically royalty here this broad she likes me holy shit so he is into her his mom though is not quite as into her which that's the thing if you come from these prominent families these parents are very judgmental of who you're going to bring into this prominent family and they tend to be picky and they didn't like her uh dolores blood pool exactly we don't want her to show up at the country club on easter you know like no it's not happening for brunch no not

not going to be this year so So the mother is Dolores Lynch. Doesn't like her at Susie even in the slightest. As this relationship between Tom and Susie progresses, Dolores, just all she says is, don't propose to her, Tom. Whatever you do, for the love of God, don't propose to this girl. It's a nightmare.

She's a terrible person. You don't want to propose to it's a nightmare she's a terrible person you don't want to propose to her so he obviously proposes to her clearly i mean come on oh i love her mother so it's happening it's happening yeah that's this is going on here you're gonna do it so on the wedding day june 6th 1970 suzy and dolores get in a giant fight over I think Dolores' dress is what they got in a fight over. Susie didn't like it and Dolores told her to fucking eat dicks and then Susie got angry and it was a real kerfuffle

here. I love it. So imagine you're Tom that day. It's like oh Jesus Christ. I didn't want to do all this spectacle I wasn't really caring about anyway and now my wife's complaining about my mother and my mother's complaining about my wife. Great. Perfect.

I am 10 years into marriage and I haven't even walked down the aisle yet. Perfect. God damn it. So they don't even go on a honeymoon, though, because Tom had been accepted in the dental school at the University of Kentucky in Lexington. Oh, he's going to be a dentist. He's going to be a dentist. So they move right down there to move into school and start getting settled in and everything. And he took a summer job with the Kentucky Department of Health and had to leave to go work right away.

So his mother found an apartment for them about three miles from the campus. Mom, Dolores, fucking put furniture in it and everything. And they showed up to a fully ready-to-go apartment. Fantastic. Which is amazing. Imagine that. Imagine your parents doing that for you, just walking in.

Oh, Mom, I like your choice of couches. Like, holy shit, just bought furniture. I bet there was plates and silverware and everything. I bet there was food in the fridge. You bet. I bet there was food, like a big roast waiting to be made. Yeah. And there was some things I probably shouldn't eat, maybe some Suzy Q's in the fridge. You bet. I bet there was food, like a big roast waiting to be made.

And there was some things I probably shouldn't eat. Maybe some Susie Q's in the cupboard. There's a Susie Q or two up there. She knows what the treats he likes are. Got you those Froot Loops you like so much, honey. Captain Crunch is up there. You love them. You love them.

So Tom and Susie, Tom moves in and Susie gets there a week later. She finds a job at Spindletop Research Company. Oh, what do they do? I don't know. They research spindletops, apparently. I have no clue what the hell that is. But they're a research company. She went to college.

She has a degree and everything, which in the 60s, you could get a job. You get a good job if you have a college degree in the 60s, period. Now it's, you know, not everybody's got it. Remember when we were in high school and they were like, eventually you're never going to get a job unless you have a college degree. Now it's like they don't even care about that. Yeah. Now it's like that's that's true. And even if you have one, you probably still won't get any kind of job that you want.

Not the one you want. Yeah. Because you can get them online now. So once that happened, it became a little less of a whatever i mean i don't have any degree so i'm not sniping trust me neither of us we're both morons so you don't want that fascinating that i can buy a plunger or a college degree all online all online same shit or be a or i can officiate your wedding i can be a a minister. Same thing. Probably all in one website. I'd get my dog to be a service dog. Oh, absolutely.

We can take him on a plane. That shaky little thing from back in the day. That little fucker. So Tom starts his classes in the fall, and his parents are paying for school, and Tom and Susie, though, they live on Susie's salary because she makes good money. So he's going to school. She's paying the bills.

They're happy, but they're also not being able to spend much time together. He's very busy with school, and she's busy working. She's got to work, right? Yeah, and he studied into the night, too. Apparently, I'm sure dentistry isn't easy. So much like pimping, dentistry is not easy. I believe that was Ice-T's second thing. And he was like, nobody's catching on to that one.

Let's just go with pimping. It's hard out here for a dentist. It's hard out here for a DDS. So he also started playing on an intramural basketball team and took up running and tag football as well. So he's keeping himself very busy. Why does he hate her so much? With the full college experience. His whole day is booked.

Done. Never going to see Susie. Never. I got to have my college experience, sweetheart. I got to run right now. Man, maybe that's why you don't get married before college. Or before you're done with college. So, let's introduce another guy into this whole mess here.

Let's introduce Frederick Klenner Jr. K-L-E-N-N-E-R. Klenner. Fritz, he goes by. Fritz Klenner Jr. Let's do this. He's born July 1952. So he's about seven years younger than Susie. And his mother, Annie Hill Sharp Klenner, is the sister of Florence Newsome, Susie's mother, and Judge Susie Sharp.

So he is her first cousin. Yeah, their moms are sisters. So there you go. As you'd say, Amaz's sisters. So his father is a doctor also. His father is Dr. Frederick Klenner Sr. Jesus. He's a very well-known doctor, still to this day very well-known from back then,

because he's a very controversial doctor. He graduated Duke University's medical doctor. He is a, he graduated Duke university's medical school, which is a good one from what I understand and gather. He believed that large doses, this is in the forties and thirties large, like I'm talking large, not like,

um, you know, uh, two glasses of orange juice, but large doses of vitamin C. Like if a full, let's say, let's just go off. If a full day's vitamin C like that your body should take or whatever your daily allowances, let's just say 10 just to use a round number of, I don't even know, 10, whatever, 10 vitamin C units.

He wants to give you like 400,000 vitamin C units at once. Oh my God. He wants to give you like 400,000 vitamin C units at once. Oh, my God. So if you do that, he said, you can cure multiple sclerosis and polio. Oh, sir. He claimed that he had 60 polio patients and none of them were paralyzed and he cured them all with vitamin C. Hyper C doses. Hyper C doses, which I don't know if that's true or not because we're not doctors and we're not going to debate the efficacy of fucking giant vitamin C doses.

But I do know when I ate tons of those vitamin C that were little tablets that were delicious. They were little oranges and they were just delicious. I ate like, I don't know, 80 of those. I had a lot of problems for a few days in my system. Didn't work out well for me. We used to have the flat raspberry wafers and they're delicious and you just suck on them you know what i mean you don't even have to chew you can if you want but it's so much more fun to make that thing form to the roof of your mouth oh yeah you want to form it and play with it a little bit

no this i told you ten of those in a day and you will blast liquid shit all over your bathroom my friend's dad i don't know why he had like a five gallon container of them it was like a five gallon container of vitamin c tablets that tasted like sweet tarts of course we were 12 of course we were gonna eat them all of them they taste like sweet tarts we were getting them by the handful and just sitting there popping them in our mouths while we were watching tv like they were fucking it was wild man so i know i shit for three days straight yeah it's not good terrible my system was liquefied it was not good he says though that he some of his patients swear by his treatments and say they saved his life.

A lot of the medical establishment call him a quack because that's crazy. That's not medicine. Yeah, that's that's different. Now, there are currently. So I looked him up to see if like, you know, what's the with history as our hindsight here in the rear view history being hindsight being 2020. Yeah. What's the deal? And I found a place. I don't know how reputable this place is. It might be.

It might not be. Again, I'm not going to libel a fucking clinic here, but it's a McDonough Medical Center in Missouri. They have a treatment based on his work today, right now, from the 40s. He used very high doses, 20 to 50 grams. 50 grams is equivalent to a half bottle of C-Max 1000. Grams. Grams. That's a lot.

Of vitamin C intravenously in patients with viral infections. They do that now. Yeah. So they said in polio, back in the day it was all polio. He said, they say, quote, to his honor, we appropriately name our high dose vitamin C bottles the Klenner bottle. Currently, we use the Klenner bottles in many viral conditions, including but not limited to Epstein-Barr virus, which causes mononucleosis and has been implicated in chronic fatigue syndrome, hepatitis A, and to a lesser extent, hepatitis B and C. Yeah, because that will fucking kill you. Your liver will fall out if you have hepatitis C.

You can't just give someone vitamin C and say they're fine at that. If they have Epstein-Barr, you can say, you feel a little better now? Because, yeah, vitamin C will give you a boost of energy and shit like that, too. So I'm sure you do. And like I said, I'm not a doctor, but if I have hepatitis C and someone says, I'm going to give you some orange juice, a lot of it, I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves. Hepatitis C is not treated. Hepatitis are not treated by the vitamin of the same name.

No. Got some vitamin C? Jesus. Hepatitis A? Have some milk. That's fine. Hepatitis D? Shit.

Well, the milk ain't going to work then because there ain't no D. Never mind. It's A and D? Shit. Well, the milk ain't going to work then because there ain't no D. Never mind. It's A and D. Wow. It says in influenza, our COPD, which is emphysema patients, come in at first sniffle and take in a Klenner bottle and take in a Klenner bottle. West Nile virus has also been helped with this treatment. help with this treatment. The late Hugh Riordan MD of the Garvey Center in Wichita, Kansas wrote a paper

on this, which he successfully used very high doses of vitamin C intravenously in patients with renal cancer. Jesus Christ. Okay. I don't know about that. Now, like I said, we're not going to... And back then, there was

no polio vaccine yet so a bunch of vitamin c it's as good as anything else they had nothing else for it the other side of the coin is like if if you've tried everything else and it's exhaustive and none of it's worked fucking give it a shot yeah i don't know you don't be steve jobs and just eat cashews because you have cancer and then you're gonna win because you're gonna fucking die you're gonna drop dead yeah you can't just go well i'm super smart and rich, so what I do should work. No. Cashews will do it.

No, they won't. iPod, good idea. Cashews for cancer, not as good. Bad idea. Bad idea. Can't just find a nut that sounds similar to your disease. You can't do it. Close to the same amount of letters.

It's very nice. or to your disease. You can't do it. Close to the same amount of letters. It's very nice. Now, he also, the father, was an interesting fella here because this is from an account of one of his patients back in the day, and he's known for this too. It's just someone specific that he, well, he had a room full of,

like I said, ancient, like old furniture. The room was, the waiting room, all this old furniture and unusual, like old furniture the room was the waiting room all this old furniture and unusual like old medical instruments he had everywhere almost like a little medical museum type of deal that's scary he would have um well

uh he I don't know how else to put this he vigorously defended Hitler okay don't worry he's a little man he kept saying he's misunderstood to anyone who would listen i think we got him i think we we had a we got the gist thank you so this is patience yeah he'd be like well i mean hitler wasn't wrong about all you know i was right

about a lot of things imagine your doctor says that while he's examining you like no can we stop doing this now um so he later on he always had like um and he kept it up always his vote for george wallace poster even though he doesn't live in alabama and um yeah all sorts of stuff like that so you know that kind of guy the local hospital where he delivered babies too uh was like a segregated hospital as well this is a weird type of thing. But this was in like the 40s, so there's a lot of segregation down there. So he is just a weird guy when it comes to that kind of stuff, which is you go, okay, well, that's the 40s and that's how it is.

But then when the guy's defending Hitler, you're like, okay, hold on a minute. It's enough, sir. Wait a second here. So Fritz always right by his father's side. Always right by his father's side. Young Fritz is right behind him. You know. Always right by his father's side. Young Fritz is right behind him. You know, in the office he's there. He goes on hunting trips with him.

He's everywhere. And the doctor would, I mean, the dad would go just dote all over his son as well. I mean. Is Fritz going to school for this too? Well, this is when he's little. He'd dote on him. But then anything Fritz did wrong was, oh, no, that is not happening. You do right, you get a pat on the back.

You do wrong, you are done. Nobody likes you. Yeah, we're mad at you now. So Fritz was expected to get straight A's, obey his parents, and essentially never get in trouble, fuck up, be a kid, screw around. He's basically, be a doctor when you're 11 is what we need from you we need you to doogie hauser yeah we need doogie hauser as our child otherwise we're not going to be good so when fritz would fail to do something the doctor would stop paying attention to him as a punishment oh my wouldn't take him places with him and stuff like

that like you're not good enough to be around me now because you've got to be. Worst in the silent treatment. It's completely ignored. It's horrible here. Yeah, there's also a lot of big apocalyptic streak running through the family as well. What? A lot of apocalypse talk. Doomsdayers?

Doomsday, the end times, shit like that coming. Doomsday, the end times, shit like that coming. He had, his father had, didn't have integrated waiting rooms until 1980. 1980, I don't even know if that's legal. Right. In 1979, he had a room for one group and another for the white people. Yeah, which is interesting. Also, constantly railing against communists, which was actually normal for back then.

There was a lot of people who were Russia and they were, oh, you know, that was kind of normal. Had a product called Pet Milk. What was that? Dad did. Targeted, they used these advertisements. He delivered a set of quads of black children, four babies from one lady, and the family didn't have a lot of money this wasn't like a you know nowadays with we had all these treatments and then a bunch of eggs got fertilized this was just some poor lady got four kids in her belly so this is a lady with no means to take care of herself her eggs split twice absolutely Absolutely. That's terrifying.

If you're poor. Oh, God. If you're poor and you're pregnant, you're like, oh, no. But we'll make it. We got love and we'll do all that shit. And then you hear four. You're like, hold on a minute now. What?

How do you make a noose? Does anybody know? How do you wrap that? So pet milk here. They used these four because the babies were born prematurely and they ended up living and becoming normal and everything and actually living good lives normal well not didn't have health problems they weren't right yeah one wasn't like missing half their spine or something they were three and more children oftentimes are born premature because there's just not enough

fucking room there's not enough room yeah and a And a lot of times one of them will die sometimes, stuff like that. But all four of them live. Wow. And so the pet milk company here, he signs an endorsement deal. Basically, he signs a deal for the Fultz children. So they're in ads for this pet milk. Like, oh, look, even if you have premature four babies, you give them this, they'll be fine. They'll grow up just fine. So it's some some shit i don't know what the formula is it's some

like a baby formula it's a formula yeah they call it pet milk here okay it's not actually pet pets milk yeah it's not like the milk of a german shepherd no no no it's not like it's not crow milker from always sunny or anything like that. Nothing like that at all. So they said that the mother, though, didn't get any money, but he got a shitload of money. The mother got, the Pet Milk reported to pay all medical bills associated with their birth, hire an in-home nurse, provide the girls with their own farmland, provide a house for the family and $350 a month for their care. That's what they got out of it.

So it's just pretty, it's still not bad. Now, Fritz on the other hand, he graduates from Reidsville High and attends the University of Mississippi in Oxford. It's Ole Miss, this is. And Christ, 52? No, he wasn't there for that. He was too young.

Christ, was he there for all of that shit at Ole Miss? Yeah, no. For the thing. For the only thing that's ever happened at Ole Miss that we'd know to go the thing. Yeah, Jadavian Clowney's sack and that. That and when Eli Manning fucking wrote his letter of intent to go there. Those are the two things that happened there. That's all you got. That's all you got.

So he goes down there and he just says, home after four years and goes yep that's over graduated yeah um his father said well show me your diploma and he said well okay fine you got me i didn't graduate but it's only because and this is the only fucking reason why god damn it that the my enemies in the German department, you know how the Germans are, Dad. My enemies? My enemies in the German department. He has enemies in the German department somehow, are conspiring to keep him from finishing his degree.

They've built a wall between him and his degree, Jimmy. A virtual, the Germans have built a wall my degree is a real berlin these days real berlin and they're keeping me on the other side of it okay so then he uh said that he said i'll straighten it out dad don't worry and then he comes back and he goes straighten it all out oh i those germans will not be a problem again i'll tell you that much all straightened out everything good and he said i'm a graduate now and then he never did didn't straighten anything out he just didn't graduate because he didn't do the classes and didn't have good grades and he just fucked around at old mess for four years and then just pretended to graduate yeah he was an old

mess he's an old mess at old miss so i love it it's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast Morbid we're your hosts I'm Alina Urquhart and I'm Ash Kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people

with a touch of humor I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app

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Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Now, his dad's like, oh good, which medical school are you going to? Oh God, now he's got to keep this lie going. Now he's got to either graduate from a real college and enroll in medical school, or else pretend to enroll in medical school, which is very hard to do. And he does that. He pretends to enroll at Duke University, which is very hard to do. And he does that. He pretends to enroll at Duke University Medical School, where his dad went.

His dad's alma mater. His father beaming with pride. My son is following my footsteps in my alma mater to go be a doctor. And he's going to be giving people so much vitamin C. Yes. In addition to this, by the way, Fritz has a fascination, more than a fascination, I would say an obsession, let's call it, with guns and weapons and survivalism. And this is before, like, the modern times, kind of after 9-11, survivalism kind of had a real reboot. This is in the 70s and 80s he's doing this which is you know kind of a interesting thing here uh he also very much big admirer of hitler loves hitler as well and again

will defend hitler to his last breath about how he's a misunderstood guy misunderstood so you guys don't get it you just don't get him he didn't have time to finish what he was doing that's all it was it's like a painting you can't look at it halfway through and go oh this painting sucks that's not a hitler argument you can't make that argument for hitler it's just not doesn't work at the beginning of the program bob ross's shit is bad yeah does it look like a mountain in a stream? No. Doesn't look like shit.

Give it a minute. It'll be nice. You come in, he's just got balls of things sitting somewhere. No snow on top of them or anything, obviously. He's the devil at everything. So he's also a survivalist. He stocks up on weapons, ammo, and food as well. Canned food and military rations to the last years and years

and they're very cool though they really are yeah they're pretty rad he should probably worry about either getting a job or actually going to college at this point or stop pretending that's all fine if you have you know a life and a job and everything you can you can buy mres and look at them and go i'm gonna fantasize about surviving in the woods one of these days i'm gonna have to eat those but this guy's got other shit to worry about here yeah uh he would also head out into the woods for long periods of time just disappear no one knew where he was what he was doing you just go in there camping just to see what he's up to so back to suzyie. Back to old Susie Q over here. She's with Tom.

They're in Lexington, like we said, in Kentucky. He's going to the university. And between everything, they don't see each other a lot at all. And they don't see, lucky for her, Susie's happy, but they don't see Tom's mom, Dolores, either. They see her once in four years, even though she's 85 miles away really an hour and a half away but they see her once every only in four years so that is because of Susie because Susie hates Dolores really hates her hates her won't pretend doesn't hide doesn't say oh no yeah your mom and then make an excuse she's just like i'm not going to see that bitch fuck you not happening fucking dress no bullshit here so she and tom ended up moving to uh beaufort south carolina beaufort uh beaufort beaufort whatever it is is it beaufort it's beaufort okay it's with a t

beaufort oh beaufort it might be beaufort that's what i think it's why i said it like that i don't know that's like when i try to collect connect correct you on names when they're written in front of you and i don't see how they're written i don't know i don't know either so i neither of us have a clue you could be right i have no idea the south too that things change that's the other thing i don't know yeah and they act like how do you not know that oh sorry i don't know who fucking gives a shit i was reading and stuff i didn't i didn't realize I had to know the local thing to do it. I'm sorry.

So Tom joins the Navy Reserve at that moment in time, which is an interesting thing to do in the waning years of the Vietnam War. Here, it's an odd move. I mean, if you can see it ending, it's a pretty solid move. If you don't have a it's a pretty solid move it's a yeah if you don't have a fucking clue like anybody else it's a bad move it's an interesting move uh their son is born in 1974 john so they have a son named john delores travels from kentucky to see her grandchild and suzy says that's fine and all i I get that you're going to come here. Number one, ain't staying with me. You can get a fucking hotel.

Oh, boy. You can get a hotel. And if you want to see the baby, quote, call for an appointment. We'll see if we can pencil you in from your hotel room. You can come over here and check the baby out for an hour and fucking get the hell out of my house. Call the receptionist for a viewing. and fucking get the hell out of my house. Call the receptionist for reviewing.

This is how you treat your grandfather if he was in prison for molesting children for 20 years. You're staying in a hotel. You make an appointment. We'll show you the baby through the window, and that's it. That's how you get to see the baby. You can call on FaceTime. That's so weird. They have another child in March of 1976.

Jim is his name. Dolores doesn't in March of 1976. Jim is his name. Dolores doesn't see him the whole first year of his life. Really? Yes. She doesn't know what brand newborn Jim looks like? Nope. Not at all. No little baby scratches or nothing on her face.

Wow. It's rough. So a few months after Jim's birth, that is crazy. Can you imagine that? Not letting your mom see. Susie says you're a bitch, Mom. I'm sorry. Not much I can do.

What do you want from me? Maybe you shouldn't have been such a bitch. I mean, shit, I don't know, man. You must have done something to her. Don't look at me, pal. I got to live with her. It's one of those. I don't live with you, Mom.

Yeah. I got to live with her. It's one of those. I don't live with you, Ma. Yeah. I got to live with this one. So they end up a few months after Jim is born. Tom sets up a dental practice in a new place and they move. Where do they move, you say? Guess where they move. Would it be the name of this town? Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Get the fuck out of here. Where else would you go? The name of this town? Albuquerque, New Mexico. Get the fuck out of here. Where else would you go? That's the most random. Like, he picked it out of a hat. He blindfolded himself and played pin the tail on the miserable life, and it landed in Albuquerque, and that's where the pin went. It's a good way to do it, yeah. Wow.

They get there. Susie hates Albuquerque. Oh, Susie. High five, babe. I get there. Susie hates Albuquerque. Oh, Susie. High five, babe. I get it. She thinks she's royalty and she shows up in like 1977 Albuquerque. Opened the door and started coughing from the dust. Jesus.

Close it. Close it. It's on my tonsils. She's stuck at home with the two babies and Tom is building a dental practice from the ground up, so he's working long hours. I mean, he goes into the morning, he works until 8 o'clock at night on patients, and he's working at least 12 hours a day. Got to have a dumb shit radio jingle. Susie hates it, though. She says to people it's too informal. Yeah.

Too informal. She says to people it's too informal. Yeah. Too informal. Too many what she says, what she calls rough-looking people. Yeah. Including, which she doesn't like at all, Mexicans and Indians out here. People are just ugly.

They're rough-looking. They're also Mexican sometimes, and I don't care for any of it, is what what she said i don't like how hard it is and how brown it is yeah you moved to a place called new mexico that was taken was 100 native american a couple hundred years ago so you're kind of going to expect this but no not her uh she does not like it the babies take up a lot of her time at least so at least she's busy anyway six months after they arrive in albuque, they buy a house at 3121 La Mancha Drive. And it's a stucco frame, one of those New Mexico-looking houses, the Pueblo deals. Three bedrooms, a fireplace, and the den. They're going to move in and settle, and oh, it's just going to be great.

Just great. But she is just pining for her former life. She tells everybody that will listen about how prominent and wealthy her family is back in North Carolina and how this is just a temporary trash stop in my coronations next month. But we live here now. She's telling people this at the Circle K. I got a lot of decorations for my home that are made of glass elsewhere it's elsewhere is what it is the silver needs to be polished so often i just left it back where it is you know it's obviously but she's telling everybody like just so you know

this is beneath me fucking hate dream catchers just so you know hate them turquoise not a fan hate the color i want nothing silver turquoise or with feathers fuck off all of you all these zigzag designs i hate it i hate it a lot it's too much keep your cow heads out of here so she said the locals had a lack of culture and fashion sense also just Just didn't know how to dress these people. This is their culture. Didn't know how to dress? Nothing, these people. Dirty, dirty Mexicans.

That's all she thought. Lack of culture. Lack of culture. Chilis are their culture. I don't mean the restaurant. I mean green chilis. That's their culture. So embrace that and there you go. That what you get maybe look for some aliens other

than that there's not a lot going on in new mexico chilies and roadside fireworks get into it get into it that are illegal in arizona the good ones they're illegal 500 feet away yeah you have to light them right there right there or just take them we'll look the other way so this is the 70s and i love this so much she loves calling people turkeys that's her favorite this turkey over here yeah which is really funny because i was just thinking about if you watch any movie from the 70s the word turkey will come up a few times it's a lot yeah it's a lot everybody turkey jive turkey this turkey he's a turkey that one oh that she's a turkey all this turkey shit i've never seen a word disappear as quickly as turkey because like cool people start saying

cool like a hundred years ago and they still say could you get a 12 year old and show them something like that's cool it's still fucking cool is okay turkey though and you know and they and they they have their time and then they come back like they come back like dig it like dig i love the word dig i love it so much turkey though has been left yeah in the 90s there was a resurgence of 60s 70s terminology and culture and dig came back in a bunch of that. Turkey has stayed below the surface. Stayed gone. So everybody out there in small town murder world, there's hundreds of thousands of us. If we all start saying turkey enough, it'll spread. It'll spread.

We're bringing turkey back. As a matter of fact, people always have their names for their listeners, which there's a reason why we've gone years and 400 episodes without naming you because we think it's insulting to name your listeners something that's so dumb hate it when people fucking do that if you like being a name that's cool whatever whatever you know what we are we're the turkeys that's what we are small town murder turkeys small town turkeys that's us babe we're the turkeys from now on. We're bringing it back. Turkey time, baby.

Yeah. You're a bunch of turkeys. You're a bunch of turkeys. How's it going out there, turkeys? That's what I'm going to say from now on. Hello, turkeys. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, turkeys.

That's what we do to each other. That's what we do when we see each other and we do we do with our fingers like this like peck at each other that's our that's that's our fist push yeah it's the high five like the like what the nwo used to do like their little too sweet thing but they're turkey pecks that's us what up peck peck bitches That's us. What up, peck peck bitches? That's us, man. Holy shit. It had to happen organically. We couldn't just name you. That's mean. Fucking turkeys? Bunch of jive turkeys. Let's do this.

Got a murder for you, turkeys. And the birds? It makes sense, Jake. That's what I mean. Thank you. Murder birds. Now we add turkeys into the mix. We haven't had murder turkeys yet. So that's us, the murder turkeys.

They're coming. I believe it. Oh, man. So she loved calling everybody a turkey. And also she liked calling people lower class. Okay. Not low class. Or low lives.

Yeah. Well, low class would mean just they're low class. Well, you could be low class, too, to call someone low class. That's like saying you can be ugly and go, that guy's ugly. You know what I mean? Ugly's ugly. But lower class means lower than what? Below me. Me.

Exactly. You named it. Lower than me. They said that's her favorite phrase. Lower class and turkeys, she loves to say. What is that? Okay. She said everyone in Albuquerque was lower class, and 99% of the people were nothing but turkeys,

is what she said in Albuquerque. Nothing but turkeys. I don't besmirch the people about New Mexico. That place just fucking sucks. It's in the ground. There's a vibe. I don't know. It's not your fault.

There's something in the water, in the air, something that's like a force with the rocks that's making up like a vibe. I don't know. It's not your fault. There's something in the water, in the air, something that's like a force with the rocks that's making up like a vortex. You can't help it. We understand. You just put turquoise on. It grows great chilies. Terrific. Terrific food.

She said she hated that no one around here bought designer clothes. Okay. And she said anyone who doesn't is just a lower class turkey so buy some clothes they said what about tom so she told her friend tom's a turkey too oh nothing but a turkey tom the turkey turkey jive tom turkey fucking root canal give him bitch and i don't like him all right she wanted to go to the opera but he wouldn't take her is there an opera in albuquerque i was gonna say you know what the opera wasn't gonna be that good in albuquerque anyway so you don't want that opera no it's a bad opera she also uh loved the classics

like classics books and things like that but he had no comprehension of them just couldn't sit and read the classics with her and discuss the classics of literature. He's not a dumb guy. He graduated from fucking medical school. He's obviously not dumb. That's just not where his interests lie. She should have maybe found someone with interests more similar maybe. Yeah, but she hasn't done much.

You know what I mean? No, no, no. But she's at least she's not a turkey. There is that. Are you calling me a turkey calling me a turkey she complained that he would just put on boots and go out fishing and hunting and camping and doing outdoor shit and she hated all that she said she wanted fancy things she wanted to go to a fancy dinner and out to a show and you know like an opera and things like that. He can Albuquerque.

She can't. That's the thing. She doesn't like it at all. He bought a Toyota Land Cruiser so he could drive around in the desert. And she wouldn't get in it at all. That thing is beneath me. It's a lower class turkey mobile and I will not be a part of it. That is the nicest Toyota on the planet, ma'am.

That's sorry. garbage he's trash lower class turkey mobile not having a cruiser not land cruiser not having it um she he he started training for marathons and would run in marathons she said that people who would run for miles are crazy and i will not take the kids to watch him. That's ridiculous. She wouldn't take him. Beginning of it. I will agree with that as well. But take the kids to wave at their dad as they run by. Hand him a cup of water.

Who cares? It's fun. She said that she hated how much Tom loves sports. She met him. He was on the fucking Wake Forest basketball team. She knew he was a jock. This is not. What did she expect?

This jock to also be in just enmeshed in the classics as well? That's not how it works. You find a basketball player, they'll probably like to go fishing more than they like reading classic novels. That's just literature. They'll probably be doing exercisable shit for the rest of their lives or at least up until they're 50. They're an athlete. Yeah. Whatever.

So she said, though, quote, athletes are nothing but a bunch of sweaty, overrated turkeys. Babe, you blew one. Turkeys, Jimmy. Wow. She's been impregnated by turkey seed twice. Full of turkey jizz. So there is also a lot of evidence that she beat the shit out of the kids as well. Oh?

One time, Jim had to be hospitalized for two days. Oh, Jim. A neighbor said they considered reporting Susie to the local cops, but then didn't. Gee, thanks. Well, that's good. Good job, then. We thought about it. One day, the neighbor who she talked to, one of the few neighbors she would talk to a lot,

saw marks on John's face, the boy and said hey what happened to you and he said i fell down and suzy chimed in and said he didn't fall down i slapped him which is usually not how this works suzy's got this backwards i feel like i fell and hit a doorknob no she didn't i'm her husband i beat the shit out of her i beat the shit out of her so behind my back or on top of my head where would you like my hands um so the neighbor said my god you must have slapped him hard and suzy said i did i knocked him across the room oh my god that's too much so the neighbor said do we tell tom do we tell the authorities they said, let's not get involved. Let's not meddle. Let's mind our own business, which normally I'm in favor of.

But here I feel like this is different. I mean, this is your business. She made it your business. She told you. You have to be a part of this now. Yeah. If she was hiding it, you could at least, you know, oh, maybe I don't know. But she's like, I beat the shit out of that kid.

Fuck him. Turkey. Little turkey. Fuck him. Turkey. A little turkey. Mind our own business. So the spring of 79, Tom gets a call saying that Jim is at the hospital, and he arrived to find Susie making a scene at the hospital and demanding that Jim is going to come home right now. And the doctors are insisting he needs to stay for some observations.

We have to keep him. Jim had facial bruises and a concussion. Oh, no. So they said, we're going to observe him. He's got a concussion. The doctor said the injuries were consistent with child abuse, and they were considering notifying the authorities. What?

How about make the call and then let the authorities figure out if it's child abuse or not? You know what I mean? Like, what the fuck man wow so suzy said jim had been hurt when john pulled him uh pulled him while he was sleeping off a bed at child care and pulled him onto the floor and he was sleeping so he smashed his face on the floor and that's what happened tom said okay i guess that's what happened wow jim was in the hospital for two days oh god how high was this bed kids fall out of bed all the time right they're not concussed for two days that's ridiculous what kind of floor is beneath this bed floors that punch back you fall and hit you holy shit is this a top bunk on a concrete floor? I think it has to be like a prison environment is what the kids are in here,

like a sing-sing type of... Steel bunks? Yeah. Fuck. So one of their friends went to see the kid and he thought the injuries were incompatible with a fall. He said they looked like the kid got punched in the face. That's what it looked like to him.

So Tom and Susie, their tension, the marriage is just worse and worse and worse. They're fighting constantly. Finally, July 79. It's only been a few years, but Susie has had enough.

She is done with Albuquerque and she takes the boys and goes to North Carolina back home. She says to spend time with her dying grandfather, but it's really to get the fuck out of Albuquerque. Okay. She never comes back to Albuquerque. She says she'll be back, but she's done. She's in Greensboro, and she's much happier here. They end up having a separation agreement that Tom signs, which gives her full custody of the children who are four and three now when this is going on. Susie, you'd think she'd be happy.

She's around her friends, her family, the designer clothes, no turkeys. There's no Mexicans and Indians and turkeys. No Mexicans, minimal amount of turkeys. It's fine. She says, nope, I'm getting out of here. I'm moving somewhere. I'll give you a guess where she moves jimmy uh santa fe new mexico china what

she left the country more than a billion turkeys to be mad at over there it's perfect not just left the country she moved to china in the fucking late 70s. Guaranteed. That's one thing. Very few Native Americans you're going to run into in China, I assume. So she took the boys there, too. Wow. To teach English, which is what all Americans, when they go to China, do. Right. So she has some help finding a childcare center and an apartment not far from the mandarin center which is where she works it's a working class neighborhood in yon ho city and the apartment is 80 a month there

oh two bed yeah two bedrooms um oddly enough one of which she made in with study wait what i don't know he had two kids staying with you yeah it's weird study i don't know. He had two kids staying with you? Yeah. It's weird. Do they sleep and study? I don't know. And it's like a shared apartment, too. Like, the bedrooms are yours, but then there's common areas, like the kitchen, living room, and bathrooms that she has to share with the landlady and her family as well. That's why it's $80 a month.

That's why it's $80 a month. Yeah. So, Susie, you'd think she'd be excited, but she doesn't like it. She doesn't like China. She said it's a tiny apartment. It's very crowded. There's cockroaches all over the apartment. Very dirty. Yeah, doesn't like that. She had trouble finding her way

around, you know, in China. Because it's China. They had terrible, and still do now, but awful heavy air pollution back then that she said there's filth in the streets and it's just disgusting here. I will not have it. It's going to get worse. Another thing she didn't like, the table manners are terrible in this country, she told people.

When they suck the noodles and shit? Awful table manners. They're hygienic. They're not clean enough for me. She doesn't like it. She didn't want to be, she put toilet paper in the plumbing instead of the tray, like flush it down the toilet instead of the trash can.

And they would tell her you can't do that. And she would yell at them and tell her that you're disgusting. I'm not putting it in the garbage can. Yeah. Wow. She said she wrote her aunt quote, this place is a wonderful, this place is, this place is wonderful for germs and not so wonderful for people.

That's what she wrote in a letter. She's teaching English in the morning, catching a bus to the Chinese classes in the afternoon, then going back to pick up the boys at the daycare center and would shop and have to come home and cook. And there's not a lot. She's very busy. Too much going on. She hates it. Doesn't like it. Doesn't want to share homes with chinese people at all

not into it so when she and her son uh they decide to come home and they return in june of 1980 they spent six months in china and everybody said that she was she looked thin and demoralized and like shit when she got back just like she's just been through it, man. Her mother insisted you need to see a doctor to just get you back on your feet. I know just the guy. Yeah. You got to go see. It's your uncle, Dr. Fred Klenner. Okay.

Senior, the vitamin C guy. Yeah. Get a bunch of that in you. Yes. So they ended up, she goes to see Dr. Klenner and who is there but his fritz duke medical school alleged son fritz who was her first cousin now they're seven years apart and boy and girl and if you have a family and you have cousins of a different gender that are like more than two years apart from you you're not real close to them you know what i mean you didn't know you

hang out with them as kids or anything like that there wasn't a lot yeah even though their first cousins they'd see each other at thanksgiving but we had different posters on our wall different things completely yeah you're you're 14 you're going out to try to sneak you know a smoke you took out of your aunt's fucking purse and this kid's like behind you trying to play with toys so it's not it doesn't work out so So but at this point now, by 1980, they're both adults. He's a he's a Duke medical student and all of that. So he's up to her standards of people to consort with anyway. So he, by the way, too, he's still telling everyone, oh, yeah, he's doing great in school and everything like that. He told his father that he was taking part in important blood research at school. That was one of the things he was into at school.

So Fred would take blood samples from his patients, then send them to Fritz for, quote, analysis. What? Yeah, because he thought his son was doing all this crazy blood stuff, experimental shit at a medical school. But wouldn't you send it to the school rather than to his fucking house? Hand off to fritz he's in the office take this to school with you son okay he just has a bag of blood he comes in and goes to his imaginary school with so fritz uh fritz had two different apartments by the way he had an apartment in reedsville and then one in durham

where duke is so he stayed monday through to attend class or, quote, perform rounds at the hospital. He's not in medical school. No, he's not. He's performing rounds. Other days he worked with his father in Reidsville all the time wearing a white lab coat, carrying a clipboard, acting like a doctor. Oh, my God. They all called him young Dr. Klenner. Yeah.

His friends, though, like knew what he was doing. oh my god they all called him young dr klenner yeah um his friends though like knew what he was doing some of his friends they called him dr crazy much better name what's up dr crazy what the fuck's wrong with you dude not only this he carried around a medical bag with him and would give people quote stress pills what are those are who knows xanax i don't know what those are. Who knows? Xanax? I don't know. Do they make you stressed out or do they try to take it away?

I would say Valiums probably. I mean, anybody can go, you look a little stressed. Here's a pill. And you seem like a doctor if it's a Valium. You know, yeah, I'm calmer now. Take these pills. You're about to see a 30-foot spider. It'll stress you the fuck out.

Rough after that. You're going to need need this also would offer various injections to people sir you're not a happening you're not a doctor you cannot be injecting things into people's bloodstreams and of course he would push the vitamin c um the vitamin c treatment which he would prescribe to people he would write prescriptions here you go is a prescription for vitamin C. Go get it from my dad there. At the same time, too, he's becoming very friendly with the owners of a gun shop in Hillsborough.

Hangs out with them all the time. He's always hanging out at the gun shop when he's not making his rounds or, you know, doing his doctor's things. He told them a lot of stories about he at that time he rescued his father from certain death and another story he talks about how um he was a green beret and fought in vietnam yeah you know behind enemy lines in vietnam he tells like green beret i was in vietnam stories love those guys which is a good way to know that he wasn't a green beret and right now because if he was to know he wasn't a green beret at all and you asked him about it he got i don't want to talk about that right he probably saw some terrible things that he doesn't want to talk about most of the time any guy was like i was a nom this one time we were back that's full of shit

you're full of shit probably or an alcoholic who's just on a on a bender one of the two because anybody that's done it has seen a friend, a really good friend vaporized, and that's not easy to deal with. You're probably going to go, I don't want to talk about that right now. Let's talk about something else. Maybe talk about that and we'll fight. Yeah. But that's the other thing he confided in.

Only the people closest to him, though, is that he does a lot of stuff that you guys don't know about. There's a reason why I can't be in medical school all the time and I can't do all the things that people want. And that's because I hope I can trust you guys out there. Hope I can trust you, turkeys. He is doing dangerous, dangerous undercover work with the CIA on the side. So my God, between all of these things that he's a doctor he's a cia agent he's behind enemy lines he's got a lot going on obviously i told you i'd have to kill you yeah you got to have to kill you so now the cousins once they reconnect suzy

and fritz here they reconnect and they began hanging out together now now they know each other start hanging out eventually start spending pretty much all their time together. People are like, families like, that's weird. I guess they reconnected. That's nice. He spent most of the nights at her apartment. He would take the boys camping, which I thought that wasn't allowed. That's lower class activities there.

And told them to call him Papa. No, don't call me that. No, your uncle. You are an uncle, pretty much. Or a cousin, really. It's like second cousin now. But you call the older generation of your cousins uncle, your kids do. That's what my kids do.

That's how it works. So, yeah. Family and friends basically pretended not to notice that these two are in a relationship now. She's they're fucking each other. Wow. They're in a actual we're a couple relationship. They are not fourth cousins. And this one married this one 40 years ago.

They saw each other. Right. They're cousins. Right. Moms are sisters. Cousins. that is get a gift from your mom at christmas cousins hardcore yes way too close that is extreme that's the one where like you anything above anything beyond that they make kind of a we joke about inbreeding and shit

but anything beyond the first cousin it kind of really doesn't do very much bad it can but it's first cousin you're playing with fire you're playing with fire your boy are you in a lot of states it's illegal for first cousins to get married in a lot of because that'll make one-eyed children and that's fucking frightening poor kids that's that's true now i don't know the funny thing is i don't know which states they would be because on one hand you know states where it probably happens a lot but then on the other hand you have to make a law based on it happening constantly. So you think it would be other places.

So I don't know. Who knows? Or they see where it happens and they're like, we're not doing that shit. Yeah. So January 1983, Suszy takes her stuff this is for a while here she was living at her parents house and they were like why is fritz always sleeping on our couch when we wake up in the morning he's here all the time so finally she has a big fight with her parents and storms off and she's done with them doesn't want to talk to her parents anymore because she's tired of them they're

turkeys and lower class. Goodbye. So her divorce is final around this time. She received a $15,500 settlement from Tom and $475 a month here. That's pretty steep. Oh, no, I'm sorry. That's what she gets, but that's her rent. That's why. It's $475 a month, utilities included.

That's why it's $475 a month. Utilities included. She rents a two bedroom apartment at Friendly Hills Apartments in Guilford College, which is a town, I guess. Her parents didn't even know where she was when she moved out. She didn't say like, I'm moving in here. Here's my new address. Forward my shit. Nothing.

Just disappeared. I'm going. Yeah. So Fritz here. So now Fritz is there all the time. Fritz becomes in his mind. He's becoming her protector. He says he convinces her that, look, you need me to protect you because Tom, your husband, ex-husband. Now he's going to kidnap those boys that turkey. Oh, he's gonna. So Susie said, you know what? You're probably right. So then she started limiting the boys contact with Tom, with their father because of this. She often refused to let them talk to Tom when he called from Albuquerque once a week. When when they did speak to their dad, Fritz recorded the calls.

Oh, that's weird. That is ultra weird. Any gifts, Christmas birthdays that Tom or Tom's mother, Dolores, would send the kids, she would throw them out without even opening it. She'd just throw them away, which is just a waste of money at that point. That's just stupid. Even anything baked goods from Dolores, she'd throw out. She threw them out, though, not because fuck Dolores, because, quote, they might have poison in them. That's a good point.

Yeah. Only because you would think to poison children. Right. Dolores probably wouldn't. That's the thing. Grandma's never poisoned children. Probably not. You can take that to the bank.

Not theirs. Never heard of it. Maybe somebody else's kids, but not their grandkids. Not their own. Never heard of it. Not their grandkids. No. So Tom barely sees them ever the visitation agreement allows him a few holiday visits

and a few weeks in the summer but that's it and suzy does not allow him any more access than is required by the whole deal here so the boys visit albuquerque here they go to see him in one of the summer trips that they that she has to let them go. A little bit about them here. John is 10. The brother is 9 at that point. Everybody says they keep to themselves. They're small for their age.

They keep to themselves. They're always in the company of their dogs, which is fine. Kids like dogs. They never had any friends over at their apartment or anything like that. Never had any socializing outside of school, never went to the apartment pool. In North Carolina, yeah. They said they had to go inside very early at night in the evenings and all that kind of thing. They said they're quiet, smart.

They like to read. Sometimes, though, they would pick fights with other kids, and sometimes they were a little wise asses. They would wear army fatigues and camouflage type of shit all the time and they like the ugly like camping and stuff so that was their camping gear and shit they're a little bit interesting here some of the residents of the apartment complex and teachers where they were in school said they were well liked but not everybody liked them type of thing one student who was 14 a young a young girl, said, quote, the only time they came out was when they walked their dogs. They didn't say anything. They just kept to themselves. They

always stuck real close together. It was just those two little boys. When you saw one, you saw the other. And then another person from the apartment complex, a kid, 14, said they didn't have many friends. Nobody really got along with them them i never really talked to them that much well they're also you're also older than both of them too right yeah neighbors that were classmates and the same age as 11 and 9 one said quote he was quiet he just walked the dogs and played a bit on saturday sometimes he was mean he could be nice which absolutely sounds like an 11 year old describing something yeah that's you know that sounds like my 11-year-old describing someone. Yeah, that sounds like my 11-year-old. That's exactly how they describe it, yeah.

Sometimes mean, sometimes they're nice, they play outside. So once when one of the neighbors asked her inside the apartment here, they said that they wouldn't – it's a real weird thing. Like they weren't allowed to come in. One of the kids said, can I come into your apartment? And the kids were like, no, I'm not allowed to have anybody over. So it's very weird. His teacher, Jim's teacher in third grade, said he was an A student.

Quote, he's very talented. And, you know, he said he expresses himself and he learns from books well. And she said he's a well-liked young man. The other one, John, she said was the teacher said is an honor student. He's very quiet, very conscientious, loves sports, loves to play outdoors, gets along well with his classmates. They like telling their classmates about going to Disneyland and China and places like that.

Yeah. They said that if the boys were sick, Susie would call to find out about Miss Schoolwork and stuff like that, things that decent parents do. Yeah. It's interesting here. So they, I guess they had, it's interesting. They get to Albuquerque here.

When they get there, Tom, and now he's got a new wife, Tom remarried to a woman named Kathy. And they said they were horrified looking at these kids. They were thin and sickly looking. Their teeth hadn't been brushed in months. They said their nails were long. They looked like they were kept in a cave, basically. They both had with them large bags of vitamins that they were told their dad they had to take.

Mom said, we have to take all these vitamins. So Tom eventually convinces them, your mom's not going to take all these vitamins so tom eventually convinces them your mom's not gonna know and throws the fucking vitamins we'll tell her you took them all yeah how about we'll give you food and just you know footstones vitamins and you'll probably be fine so while they're um in new mexico they keep bringing up uncle fritz uncle fritz uncle fritz and they're like oh yeah fritz is living with us and he takes us camping and hunting so tom was like really and they makes you call them call him papa as well that's weird yeah and uh but he doesn't know that he and suzy are carrying on a relationship because he's like that can't be because they're first cousins they're not fucking they would never do that yeah he's

just probably just she's like oh will you be like a male influence in the kids lives since tom lives 3 000 miles away it'd be lower class to be fucking. Fucking turkeys, man. So after the summer, they send the boys back to North Carolina, and Tom decides he's going to take legal action to kind of get more visitation here, though. Yeah. So while the boys are away, okay, back in North Carolina, Fritz is hanging out with a woman he's having an affair on Susie with.

So, yeah, Fritz is having an affair. He lies to everybody. He's just a liar. He's having an affair, and he's telling the woman he's having an affair with about Susie and her boys. So there's this other chick I'm fucking. She's kind of my cousin, and I live with her, but, you know, it's weird, right? Okay, first cousin, fine. He said that he was having to look after them. fuck and she's kind of my cousin and i live with her but you know it's weird right she okay first cousin fine um he said that he was having to look after them he said look the only reason i'm doing

that is because i have to look after them because you know suzy's parents threw her out and threw her and her kids out of the house and you know they won't help them at all meanwhile she left the house right um he said he didn't like for the boys to be with their father because, and this is, I hate to tell you this, but again, this is very confidential here, but you know my CIA work, so I can tell you this. I don't like the kids being with their father because their father uses them as a front for hauling drugs into the country from Mexico. I know, being in the CIA, I know a border guard who told me all about it. He uses his kids as drug mules all summer, just all summer, back and forth. Who would buy this shit? This lady.

She's buying every drop of it. She's like, wow, oh my goodness, you're such a good guy. Yeah. I got to go back to Susie's apartment now. You're such a good guy. Yeah. I got to go back to Susie's apartment now. So Tom visits North Carolina, and he comes to visit the boys.

And the court order allows him to visit the boys in North Carolina anytime he wants, as long as he gives two weeks written notice. All right. So he gets an apartment instead of a hotel room, so the boys have room to go around. I totally get that. I do the same thing. And he rents one at guest quarters it's called not realizing it's the same apartment complex that suzy lives in had no idea no clue no clue not a clue um wow tom said he wanted to see the boys and you know all this sort of thing he wanted to he wanted the boys to see his parents and And, you know, he was trying to do that, basically, trying to get people to get everybody on board with what he's doing and everything like that here.

So now Susie here went to speak to her brother, Rob. She's got a brother named Rob, and she goes to speak with him and has a long talk. She told him that Tom has mob connections. Mob connections now. He's a has mob connections. Mob connections now. He's a dentist from Kentucky. Mob connections. Who lives in Albuquerque, who's losing drugs.

Lives in Albuquerque. Through the border, obviously. And that, you know, that's horrible. She told him that she knows this because Fritz is in the CIA and has access to this kind of information. You know what I mean? Obviously.

So Rob said, have you told the authorities about this? And she said, I told Kentucky officers, the FBI, and federal drug officers. They won't do anything. Meanwhile, she never told anyone anything about this. I'm sure she knows it's bullshit. She said, though, I'm afraid I'm going to be killed, though. And then she whips out a.25 caliber Browning pistol she carries in her purse. She just carries a.25 all day long.

Yeah. Because I might be killed. Who knows? I'm going to be killed. You never know. Well, obviously, since my ex-husband's in the mafia, anything's possible. Rob asked about the relationship with Fritz. And she said she just visited often to make sure that she or he just would come by to make sure she and the boys were OK.

She said she felt safer with him around and the boys like to go camping with them and positive male role model, that sort of thing. So she said her and the boys have been seeing a psychiatrist and the boys are planning to keep seeing them as well. So Rob said he couldn't believe Tom was involved in criminal activities. I know this guy. He's a fucking square as square gets. That's nuts.

He's a marathon running dentist who played college basketball. He's not fucking square as square gets. That's nuts. He's a marathon-running dentist who played college basketball. He's not a fucking, this is just weird. Yeah. So he called their father and said, Susie's behaving weird. She seems like kind of whacked out, and her family's concerned, but they don't know what to do because she won't even talk to them. So they're like, what do we do here? Who knows? So May of 1984, Dr. Fred Klenner dies, the father, Fritz's dad.

Captain Vitamin C. Captain C there. Not enough vitamin C to save him, apparently. I think he was like 90, but still. You'd think that if he took enough vitamin C, he'd live forever. Yeah, why not? So Fritz was sobbing in the waiting room as his father died telling everyone that he had about his unsuccessful attempt to save his father's life and

oh my god this is terrible okay just terrible june 24th 1984 this is dolores here this is tom's mom right okay so as tom starts to try to get more visitation through the courts suzy starts getting really weird um she doesn't want tom and kathy his new wife to spend any time with them especially if they're visiting dolores because then the kids are going to see dolores too that's everyone's going to be talking bad about me dolores has a big house on a four acre lot here. Everything so you know she's has a big house. They come and visit sometimes.

Well on July 24th 1984 Dolores has she has a friend from church who said oh my God Dolores didn't show up for our church lady lunch that we go on here. So the friend drives over to Dolores's house to say what the

fuck's wrong with you. Right. You mean a turkey or what here. So. She gets out of her car looks go on here so the friend drives over to dolores's house to say what the fuck's wrong with you right you being a turkey or what here so she gets out of her car looks down and dolores is dead in her driveway oh my shot dead in her driveway okay so then the for some reason she calls the cops right away the cops come search through the house they They find Tom's sister, Dolores' daughter, Janie Lynch, also shot dead in one of the bedrooms. Oh, no. Yeah. They said this happened days earlier.

Oh, no. It's July, Jimmy. Gross. Yeah. You get shot and left in the driveway for three days in July in North Carolina. Oh, God. The bugs. It's not good, man.

It's not good. They said it several days earlier. There's no cartridge casings or fingerprints that they find. They said there's little in the way of clues to pursue, and they don't know what the fuck to do. They do want to question Tom because he's the guy who stands to inherit the estate now that both his mother and sister are gone. So the fact that the sister's dead, too, makes them suspect Tom. So much more important.

So much more, yeah. So on July 24, 1984, John and Jim were with Tom and Kathy in Albuquerque. So the boys were out there for the summer. He was about to take them back to North Carolina, see Dolores for a while, and then bring them home. That was Tom's plan. So he receives the news. His mother and his sister have been brutally killed, shot multiple times, close range with a high-powered pistol. Wow.

They said Kentucky police told him on the phone it looked like a professional hit. Wow. Interesting. Okay. So they said that there was some stuff, you know, no valuables taken, that sort of shit. Yeah. Then on the night of the 24th here, the day the bodies are found, two different calls are made to the Oldham County Police Department in Kentucky. First one, 10.06 p.m.

And it says, quote, this is Mrs. Lynch. This is Susie talking. She still hasn't dropped the Lynch yet. She said, I'm calling from out of state. I'm trying to find some information on Dolores is Mrs. Lynch. This is Susie talking. She still hasn't dropped the Lynch yet. She said, I'm calling from out of state. I'm trying to find some information on Dolores and Janie Lynch. Do you have any information on what might have happened to them in the last few days? Which is just weird. So they said, okay, what's your name?

Susie Lynch, L-Y-N-C-H. I was given information through the family that they have been murdered, and I want to find someone who could give me confirmation. So they said, okay, hold on. Then they came back and said, yes, that is true. That did happen. And she said, it is, Susie said. For real? Both of them?

For real. For realsies? Like, totally? So the dispatcher says, yes, ma'am, I'm sorry. Could I have your phone number? I'll have an officer call you back. And she says, God, yes, please. I'd appreciate. Could I have your phone number? I'll have an officer call you back. And she says, God, yes, please. I'd appreciate it.

Gives her phone number, gives her address. And she says, my name is Susie Lynch, even though she said it 12 times. And they said it happened today. And she lets out a heavy breath and says, OK, thank you very much. An hour and a half later here, the dispatcher switched to the call another number, I guess to, there was other conversations so this one wasn't automatically recording apparently. Apparently she got, like this call got transferred to an officer.

So the lieutenant here said that there's two reasons for these calls. He thinks it's to get information on what the police knew and what they were thinking about the murders and, you know, because Susie wanted to find out what was going on. And the fact that she asked what happened to them in the last few days. Yeah, that's weird.

That information wasn't the family knew they were shot in the home. They didn't know they were there for three days or four days. Oh, no one knew that except the cops and the medical examiners and people like that. So they're like the last few days. Why would you say that? So that immediately sparked some suspicion in the police. Tom was the one who called Susie to tell her of the murders, and he only knew the bodies had been found

and had no idea of anything about it. Nothing, no details. So eventually they're looking at Tom as a suspect, but he's eliminated because he's thousands of miles away and makes a fine living and doesn't really need the inheritance. So the detectives had nowhere to go. One detective asked the advice of an experienced investigator, and the investigator told him, quote, that family has a dark cloud and it's somewhere. Find the dark cloud and you found your killer. There it is.

Gee, thanks a lot. When I find the killer, then I have my killer. it is gee thanks a lot when i find the killer then i have my killer somewhere in that family there's a killer when you find your killer you got yourself a killer buddy once you find the murderer you'll have the guy responsible for this jesus christ that's wild man so investigators are trying to find what's going on tom gets a condolence note from florence newsome who is suzy's mom his former mother-in-law and he uses this as a chance to explain what he's trying to do in court he's not trying to fuck anybody over and he wants a good relationship he said all he wanted was a normal healthy relationship with his boys he said quote i believe in order for children of divorce to come out of

the experience as well as possible it's vital for them to have a strong relationship with their father as well as their mother. Yeah. Nothing to debate there. So Florence wrote back. Yes, we agree. It's very important that the boys have a strong and good relationship with their father. We hope you and Susie can have good communication so the boys will not play one parent against the other. Yeah.

Susie can have good communication so the boys will not play one parent against the other. So then at this point Tom and Kathy begin regularly talking to Florence and Susie's father Bob who would then send pictures to him and describe visits with the kids

and do all that shit because they get to see the kids at this point anyway. So the Newsomes said that this pissed Suszy off royally who now thought my parents are conspiring with tom to take the kids from me it's a conspiracy and she's got cia fucking dr crazy over here and we're going yes it is a conspiracy you're right it's all a conspiracy and i know because i'm in the cia for fuck's sake so yeah i've seen the ridiculous she told her relatives you gotta got to stop talking to Tom.

He's a bad guy. He's trying to take my kids and he has mob connections. And that's why his mother and sister were killed gangland style. Oh, my God. Duh. Duh. And she said, and I know this is true because Fritz told me and he's in the CIA. That's literally what she told her parents.

Okay. Let's enter a guy named Ian Perkins into this. Young guy, 21 year old. told me and he's in the CIA. That's literally what she told her parents. Okay. Let's enter a guy named Ian Perkins into this young guy, 21 year old. He grew up around Fritz in the same neighborhood, wealthy neighborhood. Yeah. So he's a wealthy family.

He has a philosophy student at Washington and Lee university in Lexington, Virginia. That's where he, at this point in time. Philosophy, yeah. Philosophy. But he comes from a prominent family in Reidsville and all that kind of shit. He said he knew Fritz all his life,

looked up to him, because he's younger than Fritz. They shared, quote, they shared a love of America, a hatred of communists, and a fascination with guns. Yeah. A couple of great guys.

Yeah, he told Fritz that he wanted a career in government intelligence is what he was doing after college. I don't know if philosophy is the best way to get there, but fine. It's interesting. It's a fascinating choice of a step. Go on. That's odd. So in the spring of 85, Fritz tells Ian Perkins about his work with the CIA.

Yeah. And he says, listen, you want to be a part of this whole argument. This is how it happens. You get somebody like me, an agent, that's going to recruit you in and we need your help right now, Ian Perkins. We need your help with a covert mission. It's to kill foreign drug traffickers.

It's important to this country are you a patriot i am okay well you know what this is what i need you to do here he said this is a tryout yeah you want to be in the big time oh this is a mission yeah so i'm going to evaluate your performance and determine whether you're worthy of other missions or not so that's how this is going to work here and perkinskins said, sounds awesome, man, because that's how you get recruited. Someone has to bring you into the CIA. So Fritz said the weekend of May 17th to 19th, 1985. This is going to go down.

So 11 p.m. Saturday, May 18th here, Perkins drops Fritz off in a neighborhood in Winston-Salem. Okay. Just after midnight, Fritz meets up with Perkins. Okay. He had gone off into the darkness, and now he's back in the car with Perkins, and he said he completed his mission. Did it. Completed the mission.

Done. Drove away. Okay. Article in the newspaper from a couple days later says, quote, a Greensboro businessman, his wife and mother were killed Saturday night by one or more intruders who apparently planned to rob the mother's home. Oh, my God. Yes. Breaking the silence he has maintained since the Newsom family members were found dead. Somebody called a press conference.

The D.A. called a press conference to announce the details of the murder investigation. The bodies of Robert W. Newsom Jr., 65. That is Susie's dad. Susie's dad. Her dad. Florence Newsom, 66. Susie's mother. And Hattie Newsom, Robert's 85-year-old mother and Susie's grandma.

Oh, my God. Albert's 85-year-old mother and Susie's grandma were all found dead in the mother's home just outside the limits of the Old Town community. They said they'd been shot and one of the victims was also stabbed, and we'll get into that here. Florence and Bob had been visiting Hattie, Bob's mother, there in Winston, and they had not returned home as expected. So their son Rob, Susie's brother, called Grandma's house to check up on them. No one answered the phone. He called a neighbor and said, would you mind just going and checking on Grandma? Make sure she hasn't fallen and she can't get up. You know what I mean?

That's when that commercial was on. Then they would have had a good laugh. Yeah, yeah, Paul. Yeah, that's right. Okay, yeah. I'll call you back. I'll bring her a clapper. It's going to be hilarious.

So their son, they went over to check. Bob and Florence's car was in the driveway as well as Hattie. So it looked like everyone was home. As the neighbor approached, he could see through the glass in the back door. He could see the glass in the back door that it was shattered and the door into the living room was open. Neighbor

looked inside. He could hear the TV on but couldn't hear any other sounds. He looked a little further into the house. I'm already gone. I'm already gone. I'm not that curious. Everything's fine right now. Go. Everything's good. I'm going to call the cops and have them do this, because that's their job, not mine. He continued a little further, and that's when he finds Hattie and Florence lying on the living room floor, dead. Shit.

on the living room floor dead. Shit. All three had been sitting in the living room watching television when killer or killers shattered the back door and came into the living room. Just burst through the glass and came in like the Terminator. Wow.

Hattie was shot three times. An 85-year-old lady. Three times. And fell from her chair onto the floor. Bob had run from the room but was shot in the foyer by the front door. He was shot by the front door. Florence's death was brutal.

She wasn't shot. She was stabbed multiple times in her neck and upper body. Oh, God. Yeah, they took their time with this. Stabbed in the neck. Oh, she was also shot twice as well and had her throat cut.

That's it. Yeah, that's the one there. That's where the hate is. Her left ring finger was cut, wedding ring was bent, and her diamond engagement ring was gone. Other valuables, though, are left out in the open, but the contents of Bob's briefcase are also missing. There's a three-inch stab wound into

Florence's neck that severed her windpipe. Shit. Shit. Yup. They said each suffered at least two fatal wounds is what they said. They said the deaths occurred sometime Saturday night. The entire house was ransacked, but they didn't really find much missing. There was just shit knocked over and you know how we've gone through this before.

Quote ransacked. They said some unknown items had been placed in a circular pattern on the floor and burned. The fire was set about three or four feet from Robert Newsom's body, which was discovered by the front door, which is very, very strange. They said they don't know why the fire started. They've recovered no weapons. They don't know what to do. Susie was told about the murders, and everybody said she didn't have much of a reaction at all.

She just talked about how one of her dogs had run away and that's what she needed to concentrate on right now. Yeah, your parents and your grandma's dead. Yeah. They said there's no, the cops said there's been no simple focus made on a particular individual or suspect. They didn't know whether one or more people committed the crime and it's hard to determine whether these people knew their intruder

because they broke in through the back door. It wasn't like they let them in, so who who knows they said hopefully the physical evidence will help but we don't fucking know at this point yeah they said we have not established a connection to the other murders of tom's parents they were like hey this is a married couple that got divorced and all their parents have been murdered in the last two years that's weird and they said we could be coincidence yeah yeah it could be coincidence they said no connection that we found so far they said but any connection to that murder is high on the priority list yeah they want to make a connection here obviously so this is fucking obviously horrible here so they said maybe robbery is a motive we don't know they said a key on a key chain was discovered in the lock of the rear storm door at the newsoms but they

didn't know who owned the keys interesting who had a key to grandma's house probably a bunch of people um he also said that 14 investigators from the department have been working on the case and that they would contact anyone who had contact with the family in the recent past as part of their investigation. And the guy said, I would rather be able to tell you something specific than make guesses. And they said, have your family members been ruled out as suspects? And he said, it wouldn't be fair to make any comment on that. So the thing is, the State Bureau of Investigation was told four years ago that Fritz was a, quote, dangerous psychopath. People came with information about Fritz. Okay.

They said he's practicing. This was an associate of his called the State Bureau of Investigation and said, there's this guy, Fritz Klinner. He's practicing medicine without a fucking license. He didn't even go to medical school yeah and all this shit so uh they had also heard multiple times that he said the cia work and all this stuff he'll quote never be taken alive he tells everybody they'll never no one will ever take me alive no no no a guy who uh named doug birch who's an auto mechanic in raleigh also a member of a survivalist group with Ken with Klenner. In informal, there's no like, you know, sign up sheets or anything.

He also he told the State Bureau of Investigation in 1981 that Klenner was posing as a doctor treating patients and even dispensing the prescription drugs. So he said that he started to get suspicious after a family member that Klenner had, quote, treated became sick, you know, because he's not a doctor. So, you know, the guy said that he and other members of the survivalist group, all of whom had begun to question Klenner's mental stability, they said they looked into it and found out that klenner never attended duke wasn't a licensed physician these things aren't hard to find no you can find you know you call the state and ask is this a licensed doctor they'll tell you they all got numbers and shit that attribute oh yeah yeah so birch said he went to the state bureau of investigation agent mike kelly gave him a bag full drugs, syringes and other paraphernalia that Klenner had dispensed and provided him

and also other people that Klenner had treated. He said he told these people that Klenner worked in his father's clinic and also was the nephew of a retired state Supreme Court Chief Justice. He is, so that's fine. They also, so they questioned

Birch said the FBI agents, not FBI, SBI, questioned him about Klenner. And he told them Klenner would likely have automatic military weapons and explosives and he would come out shooting and never be taken alive. And explosives. And explosives. Even for your dispensing drugs without a license, he'll come out shooting for that. You're dispensing drugs without a license. He'll come out shooting for that. So they said that the SBI rules forbid him from commenting on the matter, this one guy, agent here.

They said they did have a file on Klenner, but they couldn't discuss it. That's all they would say. It's four years ago this happened. He's been doing this since then. This is fucking insane. I guess he worked at the clinic until his father died and then obviously he couldn't do it anymore so let's talk about by the way suzy's apartment quick yeah it's a little weird here um her apartment is rigged with booby traps why uh outfitted with military gear including tear gas set up on a front door trigger uh to tear gas people who try to come in.

She keeps loaded.22 caliber rifles in her kids room as well and then has all sorts of military gear, has a tear gas canister and strobe light for when people come in the house. Also in her house, night scope, long range microphones,

knives, gun cases, assault rifles, ammunition boxes, loaded weapons in the kid's room, all this type of shit. That's what's going on. So Ian Perkins now, let's go back to him. Remember him, 21, he's trying out. Is he in the CIA? Let's find out. Who knows? May 30th, 1985, Winston-Salem police detectives questioned him about the Newsom's, the Newsom killing. Where were you chief? And, uh,

they, they questioned him because they had questioned Fritz because Fritz knows these people. Obviously they're, they're related to him. They're his aunts and uncles and fucking grandma. It's his grandma. He used Perkins as an alibi when the police questioned, I was hanging out with this guy,

Ian Perkins. So otherwise the cops would have no idea to talk to Ian Perkins. No clue. when the police questioned, I was hanging out with this guy Ian Perkins. So otherwise the cops would have no idea to talk to Ian Perkins. No clue. He said, yeah, that's how it happened. This was the plan. They had a plan together, him and Ian and Fritz, about what they were going to say if ever they were asked. They were camping together

in the Virginia mountains that weekend. Easy. A little camping's the alibi. We're camping. No one sees us. It's quiet. You can ask the deer. That's all. So he said, Ian Perkins says that. We were camping and, you know, camping in the mountains.

They start pressing him on details. He snaps and just confesses to everything. Would you burn? I'd just start the fire. All right. What'd you bring? Hot dogs? Sandwiches? Lunch all right what'd you bring hot dogs sandwiches lunch meat what'd you bring shit damn it were you gonna catch fish when you got there what fuck so he you didn't by the way you've just failed your cia test it's over for you i think it's over for you when it comes to government intelligence so he said that he wasn't supposed to tell anyone but here's what happened he didn't say it like oh my god now i'm in trouble he said

it like okay i wasn't supposed to tell anyone because this is kind of above your guys's rank and pay grade here just being police officers but i know a covert cia officer here named fred klenner and um you know fritz klenner and Fritz Klenner. And I was helping him on a secret covert mission. It's a CIA thing. So really, you guys probably want to let me go and just forget this ever happened type of deal. You know what I mean?

So they say, it's a mission. And they said, well, you know what? I think you can let us in on it. Humor us. What was the mission? And he said, well, May 18th, I drove Fritz to Winston-Salem to complete a mission. They said, what was the mission? He said well may 18th i drove fritz to winston to winston salem to complete a mission they said what was the mission he said to kill communists oh that's right he said they were raiding an american arsenal these communists were not fritz and any and obviously these communists

have been raiding an american arsenal and smuggling the drugs to south america and trading them for large quantities of drugs, which they then sold at profit. And, and, and if that's not enough, the KGB is also involved. That's right, the Russian KGB. Softly complicated. That's what's going on here. That's what I was doing.

And they said, okay, well, where did you go? Where'd you drop them off? And he showed them, and they go, huh, that's interesting. That's a half mile from where these three people were murdered. know that where you dropped him off from so the cops as interested in they are as they are in this they go wow um we got to tell you something there and uh you're one of the dumbest people we've ever met number one that was easy uh number two fritz number one is not doctor. And he's not in the CIA. Neither. He is just a guy.

They said he is a suspect in the homicides of the Newsoms, though. And also, he may have killed Tom Lynch's mother and sister in 1984 as well. So what you did was help a guy kill three innocent senior citizens. That's what you did. Good, right? Just a guy named Fritz. Just a guy named Fritz. That's what you did. Good, right? Just a guy named Fritz. Just a guy named Fritz. That's all.

Just some dickhead named Fritz. So Perkins said he was horrified by knowing this. He honestly, truly believed he was helping the government kill communists. He's a 21-year-old kid that was swept up in a bunch of patriotic fervor and got taken for a ride here. That's embarrassing. He said he's decided he would wear a wire and get a confession from Fritz. Whatever you want.

Whatever you got to do. I couldn't feel worse. And I feel bad for the guy, honestly, because his heart was in the right place. You know what I mean? He's just an idiot, obviously. He's a gullible moron. Gullible moron. And also, this isn't a stranger.

It's someone he grew up with his whole life, so he trusts what he says. He's from a prominent family and all this shit. All of these upper crust gated community fucktards all trust each other. That's just what it is. It takes a code to get in your door too? Oh boy. We must get along then. So you must be honest. So he meets

with Fritz on June 1st and June 2nd, 1985. Both times he said the police were questioning him about the Newsom's death and both times he asked Fritz if you have anything to do. Do you have anything? Did you have something to do with that? Fritz just stuck to the to do. Do you have anything? Did you have something to do with that? Right. Fritz just stuck to the CIA thing.

Nope, just doing covert CIA work, just taking out some communists. He gave Perkins several pills from his medicine bag to help him stay calm under interrogation in case they talk to him again. Also, pop these before you go in there. Okay. Jesus. So Oldham County, Kentucky police sergeant here said that Lynch, Tom Lynch, stood to inherit all the money, so they were kind of,

they felt like they were trying to... Yeah, just chase the Tom. Yeah. There was people trying to push the investigation toward Tom, and they're like, no, stupid, this. June 3rd, 1985.

Okay. 11 a.m. Let's just start getting into times. This is one of the craziest days we'll ever talk about in small-town murder history 1985. Okay. 11 a.m. Let's just start getting into times. This is one of the craziest days we'll ever talk about in small-town murder history here. Okay. June 3rd, 1985. Susie calls her managerial economics professor at the University of North Carolina, Greensboro. She's taking classes.

Yeah. To reschedule a test she's supposed to take that night at the university. She said that there was just a bunch of stuff going on, and so the professor said she wanted to come in today and take the test and see how well she was doing. She didn't make an appointment, but she asked if I'd be in my office the same as last time she came to see me. I told her I would.

She said she'd come by. So now during this, the police this day have decided to arrest fritz really for the murders yes because they learned that he possibly is planning on leaving the area so they want to go ahead and grab him before that they were trying to put evidence together but they're like it's you know it's d-day here we got to do this shit so now lynch suzy here suzy decides she packs up all her uh school papers because she's got to do this test and she's got to study and shit, all into the Chevy Blazer that Fritz is driving. It's a black Chevy Blazer. Right.

And she says that she's going to study for the test that night and she'll return, you know, she'll study that for the test and return to Greensboro Tuesday morning to take the test. She was rescheduling. So then she called around Monday to ask about the postponing. He said, yeah, no problem. She said, I'll be there tomorrow. She said she'd been to see him several times since the summer school class began, and she talked to him a lot about the strain our family members were under since her parents and grandmother were murdered.

So the teacher was going easy on her with the test. Like, you need to reschedule. That's fine. The teacher said she said that, and this isn't really any attempt at quoting her directly, the way things are going, given what's going on, I don't even think I'm going to get there for class tonight, is what she said.

So 1 p.m., Perkins is meeting with Fritz. Ian Perkins is meeting with Fritz, wearing a wire. This is the third time. Perkins gets in the passenger seat of the Blazer outside of a Zayre's discount department store. Remember Zayre's? Z-A-Y-R-E. Zayre's? I remember that.

It's an 80s store. And outside of this store, he was very scared that Fritz would see this wire and kill him. Fritz, though, instead, he said, look, man, these cops are sweating me, man. Ian's telling Fritz, these cops are sweating me. I don't know what the fuck to do, dude. Like, what do I do here? You know, I know this is a government thing. How do I do it?

So Fritz said, and this is recorded, quote, I'll write a paper saying you were not knowingly involved, that you believed you were on a covert mission for the government. That's what he tells him. I'll write you a hall pass for murder of three people. I'll write you a prescription for get out of jail free for not going to prison. Then he said, I've got things to do. I won't see you again. In other words, I have to disappear into the darkness being a covert CIA agent that I do

here. You know, so I'll write the report on Monday. And then Perkins said well what about you are they going to get you what if the communists get you or all these people and he said don't worry this is what fritz said don't worry they're not going to get me and if they get me i'll take a cyanide pill oh i'll go out like a nazi trust me i've been studying i'm sure is what he's thinking yeah i'll just go out like fucking like garing. So Susie Lynch's brother, by the way, Robert said he bought a rifle after he suspected Fritz had killed his parents and grandmother. And so he thought maybe he's going to come after me, too. So he bought a rifle.

And on this day here, by the way, he will later on be assistant Guilford Guilford County public defender as well, Newsom, the son here. He said that he couldn't just attack Fritz, so he had to wait and hopefully not be killed by him. He said, quote, but we weren't thinking about prosecution at the time, at least I wasn't. I was concerned with keeping on breathing. He wasn't concerned with the cops catching Fritz. He didn't want to be killed yeah yeah so he said that after the these killings he was approached by a national organization lobbying for gun control laws and they wanted to use his story to bolster yeah you know their argument he said not wishing to be a hypocrite i turned them down

pointing out that the murders would have still taken place at every if every handgun in america had been confiscated 100 years ago because they were old people in a living room. You could have gone over and broke all their necks if you wanted to. You need guns for it. Yeah. He said he told the Greensboro News and Record, I've I've I've had gotten convinced that the police were never going to be able to pin it on Fritz. I grew more and more convinced that he intended to kill all of my sister's family. more convinced that he intended to kill all of my sister's family.

And he said, in fact, I was just about to call him and invite him over to blast him. This is what Newsome says. This is Susie's brother. Yeah. That's how frightened I'd become of him. He would cruise by the house.

He said, I saw him drive by the house. I was going to call him over. So yeah, no, come on over and then fucking shoot him in the driveway. Yeah. Catch him that way. So yeah,

there, there it's wild shit. So he said that he knows Newsome said, over and then fucking shoot him in the driveway yeah catch him that way so yeah they're they're it's wild shit so he said that he knows newsome said he suspected fritz all along he's a gun nut he hangs around army navy surplus stores and all this type of shit and you know he's just into that newsome said he already had a loaded shotgun in his house but decided a 44 magnum carbine would be the more suitable in case he had to shoot Klenner from a distance. Holy shit. A.44 mag. Carbine?

Semi-automatic.44 mag. Do you mount that to the top of a tank? Where the fuck does that come from? I guess you can do that with two hands, but hang the fuck on. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. Semi-automatic 44 max jesus that's carbide that's crazy just wow it's a rifle at least it's a rifle it's but it's shooting out big-ass bullets holy shit it's certainly barking fuck man so he said as he examined the rifle deciding whether

or not to buy it or not he said a fierce thunderstorm began and someone in the store who had been listening to a police scanner was talking about a wild police chase. And he said, I had this feeling it was wild, is what he said. This is that's the brother. What was he hearing about? Well, a caravan of unmarked police cars followed Fritz from Zares. Oh, this is the day they're going to get Fritz. They want to pull him over and arrest him here. They had to get the last conversation with Ian Perkins on tape.

They got that. They watched him arrive at Susie's apartment at about 2 p.m. Meanwhile, they have an arrest warrant for him and all this type of shit. They're all just waiting to get a good spot to arrest him. So there's tons of them to cops are everywhere. I mean, there's like every cop in the state is unmarked and all around. They're not giving him an out. No, they have to keep an eye on.

They don't want to lose him. So they they did all this. So there there's also detectives from the Kentucky State Police in town to question him about the lynch. There's everybody here. So North Carolina Bureau of Investigation, they have helicopters, planes going over. Wow. Everything. So the Greensboro

Department also sent a detective as a liaison. They just didn't have, they just needed a uniform Greensboro officer to stand by during the arrest. That was what they were waiting for. I don't know why. So one of the squad leader of all these people who was near the Greensboro Coliseum on Lee Road said he's on his way.

He said he knew no details, only that he would be helping other law enforcement officers approach a felony suspect. We're doing a felony stop and we all hands on deck here. The guy might be dangerous. Come on over. It happens all the time. So Tommy Dennis, this is the sergeant, Sergeant Tommy Dennis, who is going over here, he went down toward Friendly Avenue where Susie's apartment were. This is as detectives were at the apartment. They watch Fritz and Susie load the blazer with what looks like camping supplies. They also have the kids and a dog in the back seat. Susie in the passenger seat, Fritz driving, kids, dog, back seat.

Easy. So as they're driving, they're trying to catch him, obviously. They're waiting for him to get kind of on an open space where there's nowhere to go. Sure. Side of an open road. So what's he going to do, run into a field at that point? That's that's what they want they don't want to run into the apartment complex and lose him or something like that so they're doing this they fritz approaches the stretch of friendly road or street or whatever it is friendly avenue that intersects with new garden and college roads

a greensboro detective pulled in front of the blazer this is it this is the time other officers fucking materialize, like Henry Hill pulling out of his driveway in Goodfellas. Like, where the fuck did that come from? They're everywhere, right? And they wave for Fritz to stop. An SBI agent holds up his badge for Fritz to see it.

Fritz pulls the blazer to the curb, drives around the police car, and keeps going. So he just went over the curb and away. Doesn't look suspicious at all. So the traffic kept going. Sergeant Dennis and his squad car approached

the Blazer from the west. He flipped on the blue lights. He didn't know the specifics of shit. He just know we're trying to pull this Blazer over and he's not stopping. So he tried to make a U-turn to get behind the blazer. All out of nowhere, two unmarked cars, one from the SBI, another a Mustang driven by a county sheriff's deputy, made U-turns behind Dennis as well. So the Mustang passes Dennis to get Fritz.

That's his job, be the fast car. So Dennis swerves and skids into the blazer, hitting the driver's side door. Okay. So he's 10 feet away from Fritz at this point, in the car, because they've touched each other. Dennis looks up and sees in the window, after he taps the door, he looks up to the driver's side window and sees a 9mm submachine gun pointed at him. Oh, shit. It's an Uzi, like a fucking 80s drug dealer movie Uzi, fucking with the big clip hanging out.

Big mag hanging out and then the hammer at the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the thing that pulls back against that nobody ever uses. Yeah. One of those, the brace thing, yeah. So he looks up and sees that, and Fritz has a huge smile on his face and an uzi pointed at the cop and he to kill a cop busts five shots into the squad car really two of them hit sergeant dennis one in the chest the second grazed his belt buckle uh-oh now his wife he thought she

was a real pain in the ass sergeant dennis because she wouldn't let him leave without his bulletproof vest on every day and he was like i'm fine god she wouldn't let him leave without his bulletproof vest on every day. And he was like, I'm fine. God, she's an asshole. And it saved his life. The impact of the bullets, though, shredded the flesh on his chest and shoulder, cut him all up, which is fine. But he's in a lot of pain, but he's not shot. Fritz continues just to fire the Uzi out the window, just spraying back and forth at any

cops all around him. Some of the officers are now shooting back yeah and so they have to shoot back because he's shooting at them but there's also two kids in the car right everything else this is fucking insane this is wild as they're doing this there's people on the road still too that are ducking in their cars and fucking he's ducking cops are ducking and shooting guns out the window. This has turned into a crazy full-speed shootout at full speed. This is insane. People on the sides of the road are just diving on the ground because there's all these cops.

What a scene to watch. I mean, the shootout and a car chase at the same time. This is like a crazy action movie. So one of the Kentucky detectives got hit in the arm from the uzi and he fell down finally fritz appears to be boxed in by all the cars they box him in but he manages to weasel his way through two of them and bust out and escape in the car again damn it so he pulls the blazer onto new garden road followed again by shitloads of cops now if you watch like on patrol live pd cops you see when there's a big chase every cop is in on it and people go this way

and turn around and come back they're just trying to get away and that's kind of what he's doing apparently the blazer is creeping along new garden then turns onto battleground avenue and into summerfield slowing down several times to open fire on the officers behind him. He has to slow down so he doesn't crash while he's doing it. So he does that. He then turns on the North Carolina 150 on that road. Residents can hear all around the tat-tat-tat-tat-tat of machine gun fire as he stops the car. Okay?

He stops the car. They hear machine gun fire. Then people hear some clicks. They hear clicking as the cops approach because he stops the car. He stops it near Bronco Lane. Cops come up around it, surround it. They're about to get out and try to get cover and shit like that. They hear some clicking and then out of nowhere, boom, the blazer explodes.

In a fucking, i mean an explosion not a little one a boom fucking the blazer is gone explosion with babies in it gone um one of the captain alan gentry who's one of the officers who was watching this he said quote i'm looking at the blazer and all of a sudden there was a loud explosion and it was almost as if the blazer disappeared. Wow. Gone. They said debris was coming down, raining for shit everywhere, papers and things, million pieces, smoke all over the place.

Oh, God. Part of this is pieces of the syllabus and several handouts from the class that Susie was in, was in there, all over the shoulder of the road. Now, okay, a radio call from one of the police officers marked it, it's 3.07 p.m. this happened. Officers, they don't want to approach because they fear there might be other bombs. Right.

Well, there's one bomb. Maybe there's more. Most of them said they've never seen anything more gruesome than this before. I can't imagine. Especially Susie is the most gruesome of all of them. Susie is in a culvert. She's been blown completely out of a culvert. Her lower body is completely destroyed, gone, basically, mangled, destroyed. The bomb was under her seat.

So she got the brunt of it. Her body's mangled. Pieces of the seat are deeply embedded in her corpse, too, in her upper body. I mean, she's just pieces of a person. The boys were upright in the remains of the back seat, still, back there. They find out the blast didn't kill the boys. Oh, no. The blast isn't what killed them. They were

dead when this went off. What? They were dead. The bomb, by the way, only caused minor wounds to them because it was mainly in the front seat. They found out that the two boys only received superficial injuries from the bomb blast, and instead they each

died from single gunshot wounds to the head at close range they were oh my god he shot him each of them before they were shot were given lethal doses of cyanide as well which would have killed them if they didn't die from the gunshot wounds he really loves nazis this is what gerbils did to his kids yeah that's what they did cyanide and you shoot this is i think it was just cyanide. But the gunshots are extra. He said, these kids are going to die like Hitler, damn it. This is fucking crazy.

So, yeah. They didn't find out until days later when they were doing tests that, holy shit. By the way, they think their mother shot them in the head. Not even Fritz did it. Because it was with a different gun and they think the mother did it. So, because they said the clicking of it. She knew she was going to die and she didn't want them to go to their father. Yeah, that's what it was.

They were going, she gave them cyanide during the police chase and shot them. Sick. And then said, sick, this is sick, sick. So, the one person still alive is Fritz. No fucking way. He's alive. A detective finds him thrown from the vehicle still breathing

oh boy fritz is moving his mouth the detective leans down close and says dude just say tell us what the fuck happened tell us what instead he just gurgles and dies you get a couple gurgles and he's dead they get nothing out of him unbelievable it's fucking horrific man it's absolutely horrific um yeah and it's a that's a wild scene the picture of the scene is like holy shit it's insane for what well for him over multiple murder charges he's gonna go to prison for five murders but she didn't have to be involved in any of this none of this she got convinced by him how good of a bullshitter is this guy? So good.

Convinced his daddy was going to medical school. Yeah, it's fucking great. Yeah, how do you do that when his dad would bring up medical stuff? Yeah. Didn't he not know what the hell he was talking about sometimes? I don't know how you do that. Yeah. So now faculty members, they said that she's been taking business classes since 1980 on and off they all said the suzy lynch in the paper when they talk about suzy lynch and

all her background and everything they said that's not the suzy lynch that we know she was very quiet but one of the more attentive students we've ever had she appeared to be greatly concerned about her kids she talked about how she snatched the newspapers trying to keep reports of what happened to their grandparents away from them she talked about how they snatched the newspapers, trying to keep reports of what happened to their grandparents away from them. She talked about how they snuck the children into church for the funeral and kept them away from the grave sites to keep them from being photographed. And the teacher said, that seemed a little obsessive to me, but I didn't know at the time how affluent these people were. They're very wealthy. these people were. They're very wealthy. Then the teacher says, I used to be in your business, a reporter. And after five years of interviewing and seven as a teacher, I think I have a pretty good sense for people. She either fooled me completely or the things in the paper are wrong. A, sir. It's A. She was as nice a person as I could have run into in this business. Cool, calm, and collected. I still can't get over how this woman sat there,

extra calm and collected, and said these things. Of course, you can never tell about some people. Some, that's just the way they are. Others, it's a defense mechanism, and still others are dissembling. The whole thing about her and him and what happened reminds me of the Patty Hearst story. Except

Patty Hearst was originally kidnapped. She was never kidnapped, and I don't know if she fucked her cousin at all just fucking my cousin as far as i know we should find that out did pat google that everybody did patty hearst fuck her cousin i'd love to see what the results are that poor bastard is just trying to not make himself be such a rube. Oh, my God. Yeah.

So they said, well, what was the motives of all this? Like, why did they do this? Any of this shit, basically. And the sheriff said, quote, was it their blood relationship? Was it the child custody case? There's a multitude of potentials. Only God knows because everybody's gone. Oh, my God knows.

Everybody. The next day, June 4th, police search Fritz's house and find a lot of shit. Really? Tons of guns, explosives, prescription drugs, over 15 guns, which a lot of people have that, 30,000 rounds of ammunition. That's a lot. Grenades. Illegal military equipment and a couple of claymores.

What? You can't. You can't have claymores. No. You can't have grenades. You can't have that in your apartment. That's fucking crazy. You can't have explosives at all in your fucking apartment.

No. Can't keep claymores in there that's wild so they also found a case and a half of dynamite that was stored behind his house as well and they were assumed that the missing half case of dynamite dynamite was probably the explosion in the car in fritz's office they found evidence that showed he had tons of Hitler stuff and Klan shit. He was a big admirer of the Ku Klux Klan as well. The Klan and Hitler, he had all sorts of memorabilia of the Klan and shit. And Hitler, not in an I-like-history way. You can be interested in Nazi memorabilia in two ways, in an I-like-history way and an I and they're very different museum way or yeah he's a little misunderstood one of those two ways so they

said that they didn't know they have no exact thing here they said that they believed that he had the means and motive to commit the murders of the three of her three family members. And it was finally proven it can only be proven with a ballistics report. They have Perkins, you know, saying that he dropped him off. And then there's a ballistic report that linked a bullet, which was found at the scene of these killings with a gun that Klenner and Susie sold to a North Carolina gun dealer. So, yeah, it's them. Yeah, that's that. to a North Carolina gun dealer. Uh-oh.

So it's them. Yeah, that's that. So they said that at his house, quote, they found a, oh, this is her house, they found a small living room that resembled a military supply dump, a kitchen filled with junk food and boys' beds that had filled canteens and knives on cartridge belts draped from the bedpost.

Wow. They had like a Rambo setup center. Robert Newsome here, the brother again, Rob, he brought the press in and he said, don't worry, nothing's going to blow. That's at least what the police say. They said the group used the front door to enter. Police had broken out a window when they came to the apartment because the door was booby trapped with a tear gas canister. The window was boarded up when the press came in and Newsom said, that distinctive smell

you're getting is B-complex vitamins. So many vitamins she had. No vitamins left there anymore, but they said five large cardboard boxes full found throughout the apartment. So there you go. Maybe if you take your vitamins, you go crazy. Yeah, maybe that too many vitamins will drive you nuts. Too much vitamin C.

Her house, five handguns, two semi-automatic rifles, two shotguns is what they find there. Yeah. They said the shells for a.22 rifle littered the carpet at the foot of the bed, and two targets with small holes most near the bullseye were pasted on a closet door. She was shooting 22 rounds off in her fucking apartment for target practice. Indoors. Indoors with her kids in the house. In a bookcase were all sorts

of shit. They had everything from the Bible to Robinson Crusoe to all that kind of shit. The windows of her room next to her son's were covered with a camouflage blanket. They had a big bed, a double bed. They said it looked like it hadn't been used in a long time. Sleeping bags were all over the floor.

Nearby maps of the Soviet Union. Like they're going to go invade there. And they said they had a world map on one wall and a crucifix hung over the dresser. On the floor, more military supplies, a machete, a knife, combat survival kits,

military first aid kit, a book on emergency war surgery. What? And an arms special forces medical handbook. Wow. This place was a nightmare from the windows to the wall. Holy shit. All in between.

Fuck. All in between. Ball in between balls included so perkins here what happened to ian perkins they said that you know they they honestly believe that they think he's just an idiot who fell for all this shit they really believe that shit um they ends up he ends up he's being charged with an accessory after the fact to a felony which is punishable by up to 10 years in prison here they say he's you know college student he's not that terrible of a guy and all this kind of shit the da actually said i personally believe he thought klenner was a cia agent i think it would be important to hear the evidence in court to show why it's believable poor bastard

yeah but also they said you don't have a right to do it no matter who committed the murder in other words you can't just go dropping people off for murders. So they're happy it'll put an end to the whole thing. He ends up serving you, sir. They fuck off. He serves four months in prison for being an accessory after the fact and was offered leniency because he risked his life three different times talking to Klenner. So what the fuck happened here? What the fuck happened here what this is a fuck yeah

uh well the dia later on the district attorney testified later on in a civil suit saying that he heard that they kept saying that they heard two everyone said they heard two strange noises just before the blast that killed them basically one, Deputy Thacker here, said he received a new sheriff's issue 9mm Beretta pistol sometime after the explosion and recognized the sound it made to be the same clack clack he heard before the vehicle exploded. He said, that's what it was. It was 9mm Beretta shots in those kids' heads. Clack, clack. One shot, two shot. Wow.

Right before. Like, I'm going to blow this shit up bang bang boom that's how it went what the fuck that's wild man um sergeant tommy dennis by the way he's the guy who came in to help out and got shot with an uzi this poor bastard jesus christ luckily his wife's a pain in the ass so he's fine luckily yeah he was wearing the vest he said he's had frequent nightmares for a couple of months while his wife told him i told you so repeatedly that was the nightmare just her whispering i told you so i told you so in his ear while he slept all night from the other side of the bed um he said frequent nightmares his wife said that she said that he would wave his hands in the air while he slept as if he was knocking something to the ground. Soon after the force, he he quit the job. He quit the job soon after this. He quit the force at his family's insistence. And yeah, he said that Fritz looked him right in the eye and smiled before he shot him. And that just freaked him out. It just made him fuck his whole mind up here.

him and that just freaked him out it just made him fuck his whole mind up here he said that he stayed in the protective services after he left the police force and he's a supervisor security at the uh guilford county courthouse so he's still in the thing he's just not out on the street here so he's got some scars but he's okay he says he doesn't relish his role as a survivor he says if you if you keep it in you it's actually actually worse. You got to get it out. But then he doesn't like to talk about it. So they do say at this point

in the newspaper, it says, case on Oldham murders closed. It says, a grand jury found that Frederick Fritz Klenner and his cousin Susie Newsome were responsible

for the murders of two Oldham County women closing a case that had stymied the police for more than 13 months. The ballistics test linked a bullet found, like we said, to a gun they sold at a gun to a gun dealer. And they said they, you know, that's basically they it on the books.

That's a closed murder as you know, being committed by people who are deceased. Right. So it's it goes up in the board in black, though. So the cops are happy. It's all checked off. It's all checked off. It's all checked off. Tom Lynch here, he sues for part of the estate. Really?

He shouldn't have to sue, right? He says that he should get a share of the family estate estimated to be half a million dollars because his late ex-wife helped kill the children. So her family shouldn't get shit. He should get it. Right. So they're trying to figure out if Susie fired the gun is a big deal here. That's a big deal.

One guy, an expert in gunshot residue, said there's no way you can know what may have happened. You would not be able to make any reasonable conclusions as to how the residue got there or how it was transferred. He did say that Susie had very high concentrations of gunshot residue on her hands when she died. But he can't say for sure that means she fired the gun. Could have just been fired from close. Perhaps that came from the dynamite that exploded under her asshole. Yeah, I think this is a different thing, though, the residue on this. Different gunpowder?

The gunshot residue is different, yeah. It comes out different on your hand because it's spread. Yeah, it probably has a formation that happens exactly form of a fucking gun yeah but she definitely they think she did and she definitely didn't definitely not you know what i mean you don't know so all of this they said this is nine people died in this whole mess yeah cousin fucking led to nine deaths unbelievable wow um yeah they also said that tom they wanted to prove that suzy had a role in the debts of her car move toward the center of the vehicle right before hearing the automatic gunfire sorry the semi-automatic sorry the questions about

the testimony from this he they said that mrs lynch by the way earlier witnesses said that mrs lynch was suzy was proficient in the use of a nine millimeter handgun too they've shot with her so yeah they went to her apartment like i said they found all that crazy shit they said both the weapons in the kids bedrooms were loaded too by the way yeah of course fuck man so that's weird during this they show pictures and both tom and both people in this court case both sides it was too much for both of them to see. Really? Neither of them wanted to see him.

Yeah. They excused themselves from the room as they described the three-inch stab wound to Florence Newsom's neck that severed her windpipe. And then they showed pictures of Susie as well, which were really graphic. Really graphic here. So Ian Perkins here. Poor bastard. Yeah. He tells here. So Ian Perkins here. Poor bastard. Yeah. He tells his tale in court.

Very casual. He's like, yeah, the guy talked me in, said he was a CIA agent. He said, I was aiding my country. You know how that goes. And drove him down there. He told me that he had to kill three people. He told me that he did not get the information he needed, so he had to kill everyone. Okay.

Didn't get it. That's what it was. He said that Klenner's mood was jovial after the murder, and Perkins said that he described the victims. They said, well, who'd you kill? This is what Perkins said to Klenner. And Fritz said, quote, welfare types who don't have to work, who spend all day in the gym. They're a lot harder to kill when they're that beefy. Couldn't be more opposite. Rich old people who don't have to work, who spend all day in the gym. They're a lot harder to kill when they're that beefy. Couldn't be more opposite.

Rich old people who don't move. So they said that, yeah, he gets up and does that. Robert Newsom says, I don't think that we'll see life in quite the same way that we did before about everything. He said, what we've lost is an awful lot to lose. At this point, I can't foresee a time what we've lost is an awful lot to lose at this point i can't foresee a time and we'll be free of all of this apparently they came to some kind of settlement and agreement here right that's all i could find now 1988 newsome who is then a lawyer like we said he's a assistant whatever the fuck he co-wrote a book called Deadly Kin, telling his version of the events.

Then it gets a little more complicated for poor Robert. In 1995, he had turned to like he was drinking a lot, and everybody thought he was going to be a drunk and have all these problems. But he became a community figure and went back to his law practice and joined the public defender staff and everything like that that he even ran unsuccessfully for a state legislative seat then in 1992 he was stripped of his law license after he forged a date on a legal document the document was appealing a client's case that was supposed to have been filed before a certain date but he forgot and tried to cover up a mistake around the same time his marriage broke up yeah he made a bunch of bad investments and lost his inheritance that he got from his grandmother he says that all of this must have stemmed from guilt he said some of the things

i i said and did before the winston-salem killings probably precipitated the murders he said that once he learned his parents planned to testify for tom lynch in their custody thing he told suzy who told fritz who that's what happened he said for years and years i felt like a murderer they call that survivor's guilt it made no rational sense but i think the philosopher as the philosopher pascal once said the heart has reasons that does not that does not know i think i kind of mentally and spiritually fell apart. Not kind of. I fell apart in a big way. He was unemployed for a while.

Then he found a nine-to-five job. He got an apartment and a wife. He still got three kids from the first marriage that are okay. Used to be a wealthy man, and now he's not anymore. But he says he's never been more satisfied at all. He says he feels great. He said now he's doing nursing. What?

I guess he works nights and weekends as an orderly, not a nurse, in a nursing home. He empties bedpans and does anything else he can. Oh, God. All because he feels bad for telling his sister that her parents were going to testify against her in a a custody hearing this is because i never had to change grandma's bedpan because i killed her so this is that's what he thinks yeah he said quote they would be the age of most of my patients meaning the people who were his family who was murdered um so that's what he's doing he's totally trying to help the people that he feels like he killed which is terrible he said i enjoy i work 50 hours a week and i enjoy every minute of it.

And he said he likes to go back. He went back to school, and they said, what about your law license? And he said, that's a subject I don't think about and deal with. Why should I? In my entire life, practicing law never made me happy. I was ready for absolutely everything in my life to change. So he said that he subconsciously, deliberately blew all of his money, he thinks. He said, I felt horribly guilty about having it because

it was for a murder he felt that he you know whatever so oof man in one book here or in his book Deadly Kin it's a true story of mass family murder here one of the chapters dealt with the influence of paramilitary groups in America

and his cousin Fritz, this was in 95 he was talking and he said his cousin Fritz was a lot like Timothy McVeigh. They had a lot of similar attributes basically. They were the same. Same grievances and anger. Yeah, same exact shit.

They act the same. They do the same thing here. He does say though, there's no evidence my sister harmed anybody. He's going to go down with that ship. Okay. He's going to go down with that ship. As an auction, oh, then that's the other thing. He said, quote, life takes funny terms.

Then he says, funny is not the right word. No, it's not. Peculiar is maybe a better word. What I learned is that no matter what you think will happen, something else will. That's the truth 2003 there's an auction here um this auction auctions off more than a hundred items that were found in fritz klenner's house yeah we're talking including a black cult cobra 22 caliber pistol boy scout membership card a ninja suit Of course he has a ninja suit.

A walking stick, a leather purse recovered from the blazer in which they died. Oh, my God. Yep. The pistol and walking – pistol, $1,800 for the pistol, $105 for the walking stick, $70 for the purse. How much for the Claymores? I don't know how they probably kept those. I don't know if they could sell them. So, yeah, obviously.

So they said that they're, yeah, this is all there. They sold all this shit. I guess it's like crime memorabilia. Gross. More than 150 people were there to bid on the items. They said that, quote, it's not, this is the auctioneer. It's not that these are crazy people who want to come and buy this stuff. This is history. People are buying a piece of history.

Okay. The one guy who bought it all, he bought the whole lot of it. He said, I'm hoping to double my money. He paid $200 for four of Klenner's childhood toys, one guy did, including a Dick Tracy air rifle and a small toy rocket launcher. That's cool. Also, that's pretty cool shit for a kid. A leather belt with a knife hidden in the buckle sold for $40.

Elementary school essay written by Klenner titled A Pause That Did Not Refresh brought $50. $20 for the ninja suit. $100 for his Confederate battle flag. $500 for a knife. Membership card circa 1967 to the Boy Scouts, signed by Klenner, 45 bucks. Not bad. So, yeah.

Now, 30 years later, talk about the whole deal, Tom Lynch again. 20 years later? 20 years later of that. 30 of the murder. It happened in 85. So, 30 of the murder. Tom Lynch said that he had to make a go of with his life, basically. Yeah, he said that he's married for a third time now.

He's got another kid. He said he's getting active and good health and all that sort of shit. He hasn't played a pickup game in a long time because he blew his ACL out playing basketball. He's trying. He said, though, I'm still bitter about the way things happen. My sons shouldn't have been killed. game in a long time because he blew his acl out playing basketball he's trying he said though uh i'm still bitter about the way things happen my son my sons shouldn't have been killed yeah i would say that's a pretty good way to put it he said i'm as upset about it as anything i didn't know if that's oh no this is yeah they said that they believe that they took advantage of a delay

in the proceedings to enter a permanent order that gave lynch less visitation than he required and he said he was very mad about he's still talking about visitation it's it's dude we're done with that shit man it's it's pointless ian perkins at in 2015 is 51 years old husband and father of two boys graduate of unc greensboro honorably discharged from the National Guard. He's got a good home in Guilford County. And he says that he says, quote, that he's more than the sum total of his failings. He said most of the time, I'm a little surprised I made it through more or less whole is what he said. He said, but that I'd be twice as good. Oh, yeah. He said that he spent the decade after his release earning his degree in philosophy, completing his National Guard service, feeling that I had to be twice as good as anybody

else. His supervisors in the National Guard could have kicked him out because of his conviction, but they didn't. He said they went to bat for me and found a way to avoid an automatic discharge. I'll never forget. I've never forgotten that. And it forms the core of my life I've tried to build around. He said that he's solid with his family. He said, I can't imagine how hard it would have been for my parents and sister or how you'd handle this. I shudder to think of it. And he said, Susie's two boys and the Newsomes didn't deserve to die, and neither did any of Fritz's other victims. But there I was, not dead and not in prison for years.

He felt terrible. So he got married in 2001, has adopted his wife's two-year-old son, and he asked for a pardon in 2005, hoping it would ease the process of adopting a child for both of them, but it never, I guess it didn't work. The then governor never responded to it. So he never adopted that second kid,

but they did have their own child in 2006, and they said, you know, here they are, basically in the media. Oh, he said, here we go. It's not an easy thing to love with the fact that I helped Fritz kill three people. It seems like a lifetime ago, but the universe gave me a chance and I've done my best to be worthy of that chance. be worthy of that chance so another book here the crimes were a subject of jerry bledsoe's book bitter bitter blood as well as the 1994 made for tv movie baby yeah god the 90s were king for that shit in the best of families marriage pride and madness starring harry hamlin as fritz really uh kelly mcgillis as Susie with her hair dyed black. It's Top Gun. That's Top Gun lady from the 80s. And Keith Carradine as Tom.

Who's that? You'd know him if you saw him. It's not David's kid, right? No, I think he's one of the Carradines, but you'd know him if you saw him. Whenever they reran it after that, it's known as Bitter Blood. So if you see a movie called Bitter Blood from 94 or whatever, it's this movie. It should be called Albuquerque Will Break you albuquerque will break your soul they are also called the subject of a seasonal haunted house what listen to this shit nightmare on scales street housed in fucking dr klenner's former downtown clinic what why is that the place? Want to see where a murderer pretended to be a doctor?

It's fucking crazy. Want to see his Hitler memorabilia? It's crazy shit. Either way, that is Summerfield, North Carolina. And one fucking hell of a crazy weird goddamn story. What a place. Holy shit, you crazy turkeys. I tell you what.

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That's patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the list of people who would never, ever, ever, ever, ever kill our whole families and blow us up. This week's executive producers are Wanda Lovejoy and her 50th birthday. Happy birthday, Wanda. Happy birthday. Christian Aguilar's birthday, too. I think he's 27.

I can't remember. I didn't write it. Berta's sick. Get well. The Denver show's coming up for you write it. Happy birthday. Berta's sick. Get well. The Denver show's coming up for you. You better be there, Berta, or we're there. Absolutely. If you've already

heard this yet. If you hear this later. If you don't listen early. Right. Larry Butterfest is getting married, James. Congrats, Larry. Good for you. That's awesome. Good for you. He's a good dude. He is. William Inskeep in San Diego and his disabled friends he hangs with. Disabled vets he hangs with.

Why did I say friends? Not just his- They might be friends. Not just his pals. My friends are all in wheelchairs because that's how I roll. Get it? Ha. That's just who I like to be with.

What joke did I say? Yeah. Jesus Christ. All right, go ahead. Thanks, Will. Kyle Norweg, Shelby Merlin, Gerald Adams, Mrs. Radret, I believe, and Lucy the Truck Dog. Thank you guys so much for everything. Other producers this week are WWF jobber Steve Shitstain King.

What? I don't know. Nice. Steve King. He's a shitstain, evidently. Do you know who he is? I don't know. Peyton Meadows, Captain Frank Ferrio, OJ TV, Dennis Mello.

Who's Dennis Mello? Was that the guy from what? That's the wire. Yeah. The wire, yeah. Captain Frank Ferrio? I don't know him. He's the OJ guy.

Oh, yeah. Mello is the guy who was with Colvin doing Hamsterdam. He's the actual Jay Lansman. Oh, got it. The guy who plays the fat sergeant. His actual person. Okay. There you go. Also, Chico's Bell Bonds. Chelsea. No, Kelsey. Oh, of course. The guy who plays the fat sergeant, his actual person is Jeff. Okay, there you go.

Also, Chico's Bell Bonds. Chelsea, no, Kelsey. Oh, of course. Kelsey Clark, clearing her debt. Thank you, Kelsey. That's very nice. Janice Hill, David Benincoso, Andy Pruitt, Drew with no last name, Anthony Bustos, James Smith-Williams, Aaron Ross, Lindsay Gutierrez,

Tim Watcher, BMF210, Mary Lou Lopez, Tyon Butcher, Ashley Baum, Dan Merritt, Sonia Lewis, Anna Hodgkin, Dahlia, Galiendez, Galendez, Galendez, Tom Menifrin, Melanfin, Melanif, Allie May, Catherine Schneider, Amelia Carr, Megan Denyer, Chuck the Sniffer, Eric Zimmer, Raymond, Mattis Jr., Kelsey with no last name, Briley Skanks, Shanks. Sorry, Briley. Carissa. Carissa Herzberg. Christine. Bergersen. Bergersen. Bergersen-Smith.

Christine with no last name. Christine, lucky he didn't call you cocksucker, Christine. It starts with a C. They're so close. He's all messed up. Christine. Brina. Brina Crothers.

Alexa. Alexa S. Jamie B. Brick. Glenna Doyle, Tbit61, Claire C., Pamela Watrous Fitness, Ben Streeter, Lauren McCarthy, Chris Heil. That's a terrible last name. Ryan Rolfs. Shit. Michaela Hendricks, TimeGuiasdon. Okay.

Laura, Lauraiazdon. Okay. Laura Employ. Employ. Cecilia Watson. Anthony with no last name. Mallory Morrison. Christine Mahoney. Blair Parker. Dakota with no last name.

PacificChick63. Lily. His hand's on his forehead right now, which means he's in great peril and just a real anxiety. You have no idea. If you see the hand going on his forehead, he's really in a t anxiety. You have no idea. Do you see the handgun? Lily's Jericho. Kobe Booth maybe? I don't know.

Cynthia Rizzo or Rizza Chitudillo Hunter Van Valkenburg. Something Italian. I don't think he was even Italian. I don't know what that is. Rizzuto. Alright. I'm not even going to try again. William Hogg.

Deanna Deacon. CJ, I think. Iandino Sereni. Carmen Hackworth. Sheila Boulot. Todd Marocco. Sarah Sloan. Tim A.

Scott Hunter. Kitty Sherry. Hayden Parrish. Bruce the Weak Sauce, Madison Folsom, Christy Martin, A Little Taste of Peter. That's disgusting. Emmanuel, Emmanuel Belgard, Wesley Gregorisi. That's a Family Guy reference. Oh, is it? A Little Taste of Peter.

Oh, all right. That's a Family Guy reference. There it is. Emmanuel Belgard. I think I said that. Wesley Gregorisi. Cynthia Wolfe, Jake Durance, all right. That's a family guy reference. There it is. Emmanuel Belgard. I think I said that. Wesley Gregoris. Cynthia Wolfe. Jake Durancy.

Kevin Jensen. Ty McMinney. McMinney. McMinney. McMinney. McMinney. Eric Esquizavastigard. Oh.

Marcella Fletcher. Shaza H. Lindia. Lydia Langford. Matthew Dodds. Jalissa Williams, Dakota Morgan, Betsy Garcia, Kyle Rudy, Amasine, I think, Amasine, Keith Zamorin, Ryan with no last name, Tyler Anders, Melissa Markowski, Wicked Witch of the Whorehouse? Of the Warehouse. Oh, that's probably more. That's another one.

It's a reference from something. Jonathan Stout. Should I work at a warehouse? Boxan. Not a whorehouse, as you put it. Diana Merlino. Garden Wyckoff. Gardone.

Gardone Wyckoff. Kimberly Ward. Senior Meth Falcon. Josh Peters, Derek Brocks, Bella Kropachacher, David Dillard, Stephen Albinski, Cynthia Brubaker, Saul Attude, Mariah Thompson, Dickie James, Gwendolyn Steele-Longo, Rory Jr., Craig Bertridge, Betridge, Jeanette Maganana, Diana Foti, Andrew Nauf, Jessica Spangler, Sinister Cindy, Janice Wostenberg, Blake Allen, Mabel with no last name, Jim Anderson, Erica, Kenny, Kara Wallen, Nicole Ford, Thompson, Thomas shit, Tyson, Runkle, uh, Sarah and elk act just EK, uh, Brett, uh, girl, which Chris sharp, Carly Pearson, Joshua Murphy, Brandon Kirk, night, Nioma, Nioma, Louise Wallace, uh, Adam Hudson, Legzi Arison, Melissa Bailota, Kajorge29, Marissa Rivers, Lisa Liu, Melissa Whetstone, Emily Eichstead Mendelsohn, Dahlia Arriaga, Krista Willoughby, Glacovelli, Lena Ikula, Adam Booker, Nicholas Stewart, Stephanie Porth, Annie Bailey, Devin Kendall, Abby with no last name, Chris Emile, Jaws with no last name, Chris Powell, Jessica Dieters, Mitch and Jetty, Mitch and Letty, Lynn Miller, Teal1991, 1991, Mark Woods, Crystal with no last name,

Pierre Norman, Hannah Wright, Roz McKee, JoJo Blonde, Norma, oh boy, Bayers, Jessica DePriest, Chelsea with no last name, Austin R., Jeffrey Still, Debbie Burns, Matthew Ricciardi, Richard Chardy, Holly Black, that's it, Elena Swanson. Timothy Ridgway. Ryan Locke. Lockie, maybe. Jessica. Lussier. Magalaine.

Magaline? Magaline D. Michelle Smith. Kate O. Julie Laughter. I think. Maybe Loder. Ben B.

Jan Summers. Jalen Creighton. Kevin Newman. Burnt. Burnt. Burnt Everson. Johnny Grafeo. Nancy Parker. Miss Miyagi.

We never hear about her. She's around. Where the hell is she? She died. She did die. That's right. Rebecca Trongard, Christina with no last name, Macy Stockwell, Audrey Tiller. Mr. Miyagi's got some new pussy. Sorry. It's very weird.

Audrey Tiller. Leonel with no last name. Chase Stanley. Mitch with no last name. Jamie Frost. Erin Flores. She's turned into a cabinetmaker. Michelle Aerosmith.

Make them cabinetmakers. Not that Aerosmith. All right. Tanya Edwards. Corey James. Lauren Estrada. Audrey Forrest. BC with no last name.

Shana Atkinson. Jill Helmy, Alison Grouch, Couch, Alison Couch, Amy Graham, Denise, Denise Anderson, and all of our patrons. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so much. Thank you, thank you. We cannot thank you enough, and we do appreciate it. Keep an ear out for your stupid opinions.

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