Small Town Murder - #410 - The Longest Night - Green River, Wyoming

Episode Date: August 4, 2023

This week, in Green River, Wyoming, a wild night comes from a love triangle gone crazy! When two men seem to be in love with the same woman, they argue, then decide to be friends. This causes an insane scene to unfold, where all three participants end up in the same house, but only two come out alive! It's a brutal murder that can only be described as "not unexpected"!Along the way, we find out that we don't really want shrimp from Wyoming, that being drinking buddies with the other guy who is seeing your girlfriend might lead to uncomfortable situations, and that if someone tells you they're going to kill you, maybe you should believe them.Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, for joining us so much all aboard the murder train. You bunch of turkeys. You'll get that if you listen to the Wednesday episode. Fucking turkeys. Yeah, turkeys, man. Thank you so much for joining us. We have a wild episode in front of us today. And before we get to that, very quickly, shut up and give me murder dot com. Get your tickets to live shows. Yeah, they're everywhere. But most of them are sold out. Chicago is not August 12th. Get your tickets. Still some tickets left. It's our biggest show ever. Most people join the biggest small town murder party that we've ever had that's ever existed. It's going to be so much fun. August 12th. And then there is tickets left for Dallas, Charlotte, Atlanta, Philly.

A couple tickets left, but just about sold out there as well, like everywhere else. So thank you for doing that. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com Patreon.com slash CrimeInSports is where you get all the bonus materials. Anybody a cup of coffee, $5 a month or above, you get access

to all the bonus stuff. There's a couple hundred episodes of bonus stuff to binge and new ones every other week. They keep piling up. They're wonderful. And for this week, what you're going to get is for crime and sports, which you have access to, of course, we're going to talk about part two of theme park disasters. Wow, those were crazy. And now we're in more of the modern times, so we're going to start to see wild roller coaster accidents and stuff

like that. It's crazy. Yeah, now there's like, now they want to go faster and faster. Yeah, yeah. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about something that's been very much requested, the Stanford Prison Experiment, which was early 70s, the university there in Stanford. They took some students in a psychology experiment

and said, half of you are guards and half of you were prisoners let's see how that works out and wow did it have some crazy results and the way they administered who it was weird so we'll talk all about that patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that stuff and of course one listen to crime and sports if you're not listening to crime and sports give it a shot don't have to like sports there's a lot of stupidity and crime and mainly just a lot of jokes from us so if you like our humor that's a good place to get it and you also want to listen to your stupid opinions which is coming out finally soon here finally gave us the clearance to do this and we're very happy and excited so we can't wait that said i think it's time to get into the story before

before we get too far going or gone here so i think it's time to get into the story before before we get too far going or gone here so i think it's time for everyone out there including us right here to sit back let's all sit back everyone clear the lungs you want to make it nice and clear arms to the sky and let's all shout let's do this jimmy what do you say hey let's go on a trip shall we yeah we are going somewhere we don't go very often because there's not a lot of people there and not a lot of murder there but we found some no we are going to wyoming as a matter of fact all the way out there this is green river wyoming so this week fucking credence clearwater has gotten a lot of time in our heads because we had suzy q in the first story on wednesday and then or thursday

and then today we have green river which is another credence clearwater song so great band green river thanks john fogarty what happened here was actually green river's the main town then there's a little tiny tiny tiny town on the edge of green river with like a couple of stores and a little neighborhood called jamestown jamestown two separate words and that's where this actually happened but green river is the town that jamestown is within so we'll talk about that here so this is in western wyoming all the way out west there it's about four hours to cheyenne okay that across the state driving over there so if it snows you're gonna get stuck

somewhere for three months like the shining and about two and a half hours to pavilion wyoming which was our last wyoming episode gerald and alice which was a wild one i remember that they were interesting couple this is in Sweetwater County. Population here in this town, 11,887. So it's a good-sized little town for Wyoming, actually. That's a lot. Because one of the stories I was looking at was in Casper, and that has less than 60,000 people, and it's the second biggest city in the state. So there's not a lot of people here. Median household income here is pretty high, $73,225 in this town. And it's in the middle of nowhere.

I mean, there's nothing around this shit. How are they doing it? I don't know. Median home price is low, actually, $243,800. Not bad. So high income, low cost of living, that's a combination people like usually. Seems like a good reason to be in Wyoming. Yeah, not a lot of places can say that.

They have both of those things. So this town of the site of Green River, it was in Dakota territory at first. Yeah. And originally platted by the Union Pacific Railroad. So this is not, this wasn't natural. This is the railroad came through here. Everything in Wyoming is that, I think. That's all it is.

1867, I think. That's all it is. 1867 that was. The territory was created in 1868 of Wyoming, and the town was incorporated a month later, but under the laws of the previous territory of Dakota, since they hadn't written laws yet for Wyoming incorporation. So they had to reincorporate in 1891

under the new laws to make it so they were actually a town. Because for 20 years, they basically argued over whether they were really a town or not. So it's pretty ridiculous. November 16th, 1931, and this is pretty cool. The town of Green River passed the Green River Ordinance, which prohibited door-to-door salesmen. I love it. No knocking on people's, no fucking soliciting all over the place.

I hope that counts for Mormons too. The welcome sign says no soliciting. No soliciting. And other towns started adopting this after a while, towns here and there, but they were the first ones to do it that we know of anyway. So reviews of this town. Let's find out what people who live there or have been there say about this shit because we know nothing. What do we know? Okay. Five stars we know? Okay.

Five stars. Here we go. Green River is a great little city to raise a family in. Lots of activities programs slash programs for kids. Lots of high-paying jobs available and the price of houses isn't too bad. Yeah. All right. The bluffs surrounding the city and the river make it a beautiful place to live.

Endless opportunities for someone who likes to recreate. Recreate outside? Oh, recreate. Recreate. Recreate outside, like recreate. Very safe community. Awesome rec center that is ran by the city. Okay, but it's outside. Go outside.

It gets cold there, as we'll find out. Here is three stars. The crime rate here is relatively low. DUIs are pretty frequent, but police usually do a good job of catching drunk drivers. There's a lot of DUIs. It means they're catching a lot of drunks. That's just this area of the country. If you're behind the wheel after, I don't know, 10.30 p.m.

You're shit-faced. Pretty good chances. You're pretty shit. Especially out there. There's nothing out there. No. What are you going to hit? A buffalo?

That's it. Literally outside of a bison, there's nothing to hit. There just isn't. Guardrail, buffalo, mountain. That's it. That's all. You're pretty much on your own. So two stars here.

This is good. The town of Green River is not full of excitement and encouragement. A large number of soon-to-be adults will spend their entire life in this town and not attempt to go anywhere else oh my god that's that's grim jesus karen's calm down did grim karen write that i don't see a name on the review is that the high school commencement speech fuck man yeah all the kids leave slowly out of their chairs just leave their hats on the ground of your miserable fucking lives in this shitty dump of a fucking town like jesus calm down uh things to do here all right the river festival it's on the river so let's have a

river goddamn festival here let's do it uh the river Festival starts off at 4 p.m. on the third Friday of August. So it's really going to really write that down. Open-ended. Music, beer vendors, shrimp boil, food trucks, and once it gets dark, fireworks in all capital letters. Did someone say shrimp? Yes, I did. That's what this says, by the way. Gross.

Arcadian shrimp boil is a fan favorite. What about shrimp or Cajun, says Wyoming. Neither of those things make me think of Wyoming. One of the furthest states from an ocean. I would say get me a steak up there, right? How are you getting shrimp that's fresh? What the fuck fuck and then making occasion style okay you will have the option to purchase a five o'clock dinner ticket or a six

o'clock dinner ticket prices are twenty dollars for canoe approximately five what is that five pounds of shrimp plus tomato or potatoes corn sausage and soda or water thirty dollars for the boat oh that's a half pound of shrimp because then the boat is a pound of shrimp plus all those things fifty five dollars for our two boat which is our date night special it says just off a double boat oh we will also be selling tickets for a spaghetti dinner served by the knights of columbus as a fundraiser if you want to go down there that sounds really great here you know there's a couple of you got like four catholics so you know they know how to do that that's all right

the fun begins here saturday morning with our run with the horses marathon oh boy it's a trail marathon and you pass wild horses as you run and it, many runners get beautiful photos with wild horses up close. That's scary. Jesus, that's, yeah, are they going to kick you? They bite, too. Oh, yeah, they bite. There's a duck race, a river festival car and bike show. Holy shit. Then it says, cast your votes for your favorite fish during the flaunt your fish competition.

Get out here and flaunt it. Local people and businesses compete for the best decorated fish in town, not the biggest fish caught. You get a fish and you, I don't know, dress it up like a lady. I don't know what you do with it. You fajazzle it? You fajazzle the fish. Then there is the totally separate event.

This is not even in Green River. It's actually a place called Pinedale, but it's called the Green River Rendezvous. So I had to look it up and I laughed my ass off because it says it's guaranteed fun for the whole family as you relive the original Green River Rendezvous of the 1800s with a live historical reenactment that's been in a Pinedale tradition since 1936. Our rodeo grounds come alive with bearded buckskin trappers and mountain men of long ago as they gallop, holler, fight, boast, and trade in barter goods. You won't want to miss this rowdy event that takes place against the backdrop of the beautiful Wind River Mountains. Holy shit. You got to wrestle before you exchange furs for goods? It's like a show, I guess. It's a show. You watch these guys pretend.

I don't know. It's like fucking medieval times for trappers. That's what it sounds like, right? Like some kind of, like a show. Like you're going to see, like, remember Rawhide would do the gunfight in the street? Like one of those in Arizona back in the day. I feel like it's like that. This section roots for the raccoon trapper.

Yeah, you got all different ones with their different hats on. I'm rooting for the goddamn tall guy. Look at him. He just punched that coon skin right off his head. I'm rooting for the gold panner. Oh, man. Come on, prospector. Let's talk about a murder, shall we, Jimmy?

Let's do it. uh let's talk about a murder shall we jimmy and as a special surprise for everyone we have a uh small town murder peace theater 3000 one reading for you today that we're gonna go over that is wonderful okay let's go back to 2002 everybody oh not too far back yeah yeah it's 20 years we have phones we have texting but there's barely a camera and there's no social media. Very easy. Okay. Let's talk about a guy here, Robert Leroy Seiler. Okay.

Robert Leroy Seiler. Now, in 2002, he's been friends with a guy named Craig Cunningham since about 1999. They've been buddies. They met somewhere drinking beer, as we'll talk about. They both love to drink beer. That's how that goes. Been good friends with them since 1999. Now Cunningham is just a raging alcoholic during this time, of his own admission. Just an absolute raving alcoholic. He's such a raving alcoholic. He has

13 prior convictions in utah for driving while under the influence not arrests convictions third fucking teen of them how many times did he get away dude think about that 13 we know a guy who's been to prison twice and he doesn't have 13 he's got seven right seven i think lucky seven but 13 holy shit this guy's never driven sober he just just drives no way he's driven sober he did he uh they've he did prison time for it like in the 90s before people did a lot of prison time before they took it serious yeah he said that um you know he's just a heavy drinker and he said also his friend here robert he's also a heavy drinker and he has a quote bad drinking problem they both do that's why they hang out

together because they drink like animals and by the way this story was all we almost did a different story i have another story completely done we'll have to do it as a bonus or something but it was another wyoming story where these men were drinking all day long and they were drinking vodka then i guess drinking it wasn't good enough so they began i shit you not in this other story not this one to inject vodka into their veins with hypodermic needles they were shooting up vodka in the story popping vodka. There wasn't quite enough for a whole episode on it, but that was almost like, I have to just tell people about this.

It says in the court documents, after they all intravenously shot vodka into their veins, I'm like, holy shit. Skin popping popov. Wow, that is horrible fucking shit. So these two are alcoholics. Let's put a woman into the mix, shall we? Okay.

Let's throw a lady into here. Cheryl Ann Watson Ward is her name. Cheryl Ann Watson, and then she's recently been married again to somebody else here. She's been married a couple of times. She has four daughters, and she's married but not with her husband at this point in time okay yeah so in 2002 she's 41 years old yeah four kids four daughters married but the husband lives in utah they've been separated at least for a while here uh she's married to a guy named arlen ward but they've been for six years but they've been split apart um cheryl is also a member of the Eagles Fraternal Order No. 2350.

I don't know what the fuck that is, a social club of some kind? There's an Eagles? Eagles Fraternal Order. The Elks? She likes the outdoors a lot, by the way, it says here. She's always outdoors. She likes to horseback ride and shit like that, which I think a lot of people in Wyoming probably enjoy those activities.

Probably 100% of them. If you don't love doing shit like that, you probably shouldn of people in Wyoming probably enjoy those activities. Probably 100% of them. If you don't love doing shit like that, you probably shouldn't live in Wyoming. You should probably go somewhere else where you could be inside better. Every day. Every damn day. Weak internet signal. It's tough there. So June of 2002 now, or up until for about a year and a year and a half now, Robert and Cheryl have been in a relationship together.

If you can call it that it's on and off tumultuous. They fight. The cops come. She moves out. She's back in two days. They're fighting again. They're the type of couple from everything I can gather. They're the type of couple that get in an argument.

He hits her. She some one of the neighbors calls the cops, the cops come over, then both of them fight with the cop. That's the kind of couple we're talking about here. Wow. Yeah. That's what's going on with these two. That's fun. It's terrible, though, because nothing ever gets accomplished and they keep acting out violence upon each other. That's the issue.

And the neighbor has to deal with this bullshit once a week. They have to go, Jesus, they're at it again. We've got to call the cops. So this is an on-and-off, tumultuous relationship. Like we said, we'll talk about that there's a court battle that's about to happen where he's been arrested multiple times on battery charges involving Cheryl, and he's got a trial coming up and he's all pissed off about that and she doesn't want to participate in the trial either because she's they're back together

so it's the whole thing's a mess by June of 2002 they're oh my god she had moved out of Robert's house yeah okay but they're still seeing each other on and off you know but she moved out of the house at this point she starts seeing craig cunningham as well oh robert's friend craig she starts seeing him too cheryl does so like okay now craig is good friends with robert he knows that cheryl and you know robert have had a relationship and he knows he knows what's going on he's been around he sees everything so he said still though he couldn't help it couldn't help it gets in a relationship with her in about june of 2002 a sexual relationship obviously they're not just like hanging out doing a book club yeah they're uh what did you think of little women well let me

tell you so he's cunningham said on and off it continued until finally August 13th, 2002, Cheryl moves back in with Robert. Leaves Craig, moves in with Robert, and she's got at least one kid that I know of, if not more, that lives with her that goes with her everywhere she goes here, too. So I know from being a kid that got moved around a lot, that is a horribly hectic and stressful situation. So feel for that kid right away. So August 13th, 2002, Cheryl moves back in with Robert. This is the next week is the trial for the battery of this. And he's been convicted on battery charges involving her twice before. Twice.

This is the third trial he's going to go through is there no law that the cops can like enforce of like we don't want to be here again there should be can't be together if i see you together arresting both of you there should be a restraining order that one person can get on another and then there should be a restraining order that society can put on your couple as To save the cops time of dealing with something. All of us, tax money. You're not allowed to be together. They could be somewhere else.

Yeah, because someday someone's going to kill someone, and then we've got to deal with that too. So save your family, the taxpayers. Let's save everyone a whole lot of trouble. You two together, you both get arrested, both of you. Is it thrice battery convictions that's the thing? Is it three? Is it three?

Is it three? Do we have to wait that long even? I guess. I don't know. One probably. Three actual strikes and you're out? Holy, this is a fucking mess, man. This whole thing, obviously setting the table for this is a disaster is what it is.

So August the 16th, 2002, we have alcoholics that are fucking each other's you know significant others and all this that's a mess so august 16 2002 sometime after 4 p.m uh cunningham craig he goes out he has his unemployment check in hand here yeah he's got a pocket full of dough he's ready to burn babe so. He is, yeah. So he goes, cashes his check, and buys a bunch of beer, as one does when you're unemployed and your only money is coming from unemployment. Perfect use of those sons. Spend it on beer. That'll get you a job.

I think they should only be used for beer, to be honest with you. Only allowed to be used for, not rent or anything, just beer. They should only be used for beer, to be honest with you. Only allowed to be used for not rent or anything, just beer. So Cunningham sees Robert Leroy Siler at a local bar along the way. And so just sees him there. Cunningham goes back to his house about 8.30. He stopped at the bar because he went out to buy beer, but he had to drink at a bar before he went and bought beer.

He had to pregame at a bar. buy beer but he had to drink at a bar before he went and bought beer he had to pre-game at a bar so then he gets home uh about 8 30 p.m cunningham does and he drank a few more beers and then at about somewhere between 9 30 and 10 30 when you've had this many beers at times get a little wishy washy sometime around that time robert seiler shows up at cunningham's house and they just hung out at a bar for a couple hours by the way talking and everything's fine seiler now shows up knocks on the door cunningham comes outside and now robert wants to confront craig about what's going on with cheryl now we want to now it's on now it's on. He's had a couple more beers. Now we're both thinking more clearly.

Yes, now that we're both on the level. Now that we've both had enough to stop the shakes, let's talk about this. DTs are, you know. We got enough booze in our blood to make each other bleeders. It's good stuff. So he's going to

confront Craig about his relationship with Cheryl. He says, are you having a fucking, you fucking my woman? You fucking Cheryl? And Craig says, yes, I am. He admits it. He says he admits that they've been having sex. And it's true. More patterns, I should tell you.

Then they argue back and forth for a while, yelling. People hear them. They're arguing. Both of them expressing their love for cheryl well i love her well i love her too damn it well shit she's my wife doesn't matter you hit her that's why you don't love her i'll take her now yeah but i found her first they're going back and forth arguing she's not even here for this to they're going to decide on their own what she wants so they're both doing this a neighbor hears this overheard this entire thing said be somewhere around 9 30 9 15 they're

arguing they said that robert seiler seemed very angry and was yelling and then but at some point you can only argue for so long yeah so eventually you gotta calm down at some point, you can only argue for so long. Yeah. Eventually, you've got to calm down. At some point, they calmed down, and the yelling became normal talking back and forth. Okay. Okay. At some point now, during all this, it's still contentious, but they're not screaming at each other anymore. You get tired, you know? Yeah.

At some point during this, Robert pulls out a bone-handled knife with a six-inch blade. Oh, my. This is a serious knife, okay? He takes the knife, walks by Cunningham. Cunningham's like, uh-oh, this isn't good. And obviously this seems like we're going to have our murder right now. But instead, Robert places the knife in the back of his pickup truck and instead comes back from around the back of the truck with two beers and hands one to Cunningham. I was going to knife your ass, but now I'm going to have a beer with you.

Fuck it. Let's commiserate instead. We have a similar problem. Yeah. You know? Don't you hate when she drags her teeth? I mean, it's. Me too. So that's me, too.

So that's what they do. They sit there, they calm down and they just sit and have a beer like fucking coolest cucumbers outside. No problem. Just hurry. Lucky charms. The slurping. I can't get over it. The slurping. Don't use that much milk if you ain't going to use it.

Just quit slurping it all up. Jesus Christ, Almighty. Fucking A. So Cunningham says that at this point, Robert said, you know what we're going to do right now? I got an idea. We're brothers, right? Yeah, we are. Fuck it.

We're brothers right now. You know, I mean, blood, Eskimo, however you want to put it, but we're brothers. We're blood but lat brothers what we're gonna do right here now is we're gonna go over to that bitch's house and we're gonna confront her that you've been fucking both of us and we're not happy about it we're tired of this we're tired of this shit so this is kind of funny because normally this is what two women would do they team up and then they end up going yelling at the guy to get like we've seen that and heard of that and they make movies that have that in it all the time you rarely see the two guys go let's go tell that

bitch the guys will fight with each other whereas you know these two are like nah she's wronged us both let's go talk to her welcome to the small town of chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister

than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your crimes. You should tune into our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

So they go there to her house. When Robert enters the house, I don't know if he has a key or what, but they just come in. She's in the bathroom fixing her hair at this point in time. She's about to go out to the bar. It's like 11 o'clock. She's going to the bar. She's fixing her hair.

Robert goes into the bathroom to talk to her. Cunningham stays in the living room. She doesn't have any idea Cunningham's in the living room, okay? So Robert tells her, I found out you've been fucking Craig. You fucking Craig? Yeah, you are. I know it. She denied it. Oh. She said, I you've been fucking craig you fucking craig yeah you are i know it she denied it oh she said i haven't been fucking craig i don't know what you're talking about he said bullshit matter he's in the fucking living room i'll go get him right now and he'll tell you

he's been fucking you because we've been talking about it so they got together he then brings in the mystery witness here oh the secret witness and yeah he said yep that's how it works there um it's you know there you go you don't believe he said he said you don't believe me that the way he said it was hilarious you don't believe me ask him ask craig and then brought craig in and she was like oh shit we've been comparing breath they smell the same they smell the same and it's you that's the common denominator so at this point yeah um this is all happening here at this point now robert and cheryl proceed to argue for about five more minutes until robert says no more i'm done arguing and as a matter of fact i'm through with you i'm done it's over with we're through i'm through i've had enough how many throughs have

they had by the way you think these things i'm through goodbye i'm taking my friend craig and we're leaving now yeah so now he and craig robert and craig leave her house between 10 and 11 p.m. Wow. And Robert drives Cunningham to a local bar where they had a couple of drinks, a few drinks, according to everybody there. Then Robert drove Cunningham to the Rage Bar, which seems an appropriate place for these two to end up, a bar called Rage. It doesn't sound like a straight bar, to be honest with you. Robert's like, we're going to

rage damn it i'm angry and he gets there he's like everybody here seems real happy i don't this isn't what i expected a lot more smiles than i expected a little little lighter in the loafers than i thought for all this rage so about an hour later they left Rage because apparently Robert had his head down on the bar. Yeah. As drunks do. Don't have to sleep in. When they've had enough. And the bartender told Cunningham, get him the fuck out of here.

You can't be sleeping on the bar. That's not okay. I mean, you know, buy a drink at least. I hate that rule, though. I do like it. No sleeping at the bar? No one that's a bad vibe for everyone i do like a good 10 minute nap or so in a in a fucking bench like a stool i feel like you have to be awake to be here isn't a lot to ask people eyes open i mean we're all like it's not a lot

a booth that's the word a booth i'd love to take a nap hey i'm a nap guy trust me i'm into it but i see their point too you know what i'm saying just seems awesome oh man so cunningham nudges robert and says let's go man let's go brother we're leaving the bar and he's he gets up robert's able to walk out to the bar and get to the vehicle under his own power now craig says that he was in no shape to drive and neither was robert so craig decided he was slightly less drunk he was awake anyway he was conscious at the bar that's how you decide who drives in wyoming yeah so who wasn't just thrown out for passing out on the bar i guess it's me bartender took me as a responsible one so fuck it bartender told me to get him the fuck

out of here exactly yeah you're fine so cunningham he drives robert car, and he said that he couldn't start the vehicle. I'm sure it's some shitbox of some kind. Robert's able to tell him how to properly start it. You got to do this and push that down and give it one pump on the breath washer. You know how it goes. Oh, don't do that. That won't work. So he drives back to Robert's house there.

He said they left the Rage Bar at 12 or 1230, but he said it might have been later. They're not sure. Somewhere in there because, you know, they're both shit-faced. Yeah, they're there an hour. Give me a break. So at Robert's house, Robert says, you can stay the night if you want. I mean, shit, you know, it's late and you've been drinking. So if you want, you can sleep on the couch.

I'll take you home in the morning. You can climb in my tent if you want. Climb on in with me, big guy. So, no, he even went, Robert went in and got him a blanket and a pillow even and gave it to him. So there you go, a little bed wrap for you for the night. So Craig goes to sleep there. Well, not yet. They first, of course, drink a couple of beers more, obviously, because, you know, they're not drunk enough.

So they have a couple more beers. And one went to sleep on the couch i guess he went to sleep you know craig did there and robert fell asleep on another couch just sitting there after all the beers he passed out on the couch there so meanwhile cheryl called her friend joanne richards who by the way had been drinking since noon that day. Hell yeah. This is about midnight. She'd been drinking for a solid 12 hours. God damn.

Not Cheryl, Joanne, the friend. Yeah. And she called several times from Robert's residence when she was there, because she'll go back later on, to see richards could pick her up but richards couldn't because she'd been drinking since noon right so then um also robert must have been awake at 2 a.m because he called joanne richards at 2 a.m and he asked whether richards had picked cheryl up and uh said that you know did you pick cheryl up and said, I'm with Craig right now. We've been drinking beer and we're here. So I don't know. Yeah. Richards also said that based on her prior interactions with Robert, he didn't sound as if he was intoxicated on the phone.

But then again, she's been drinking for 14 hours. Her judgment on anything might be a bit skewed. She seemed more sober than me. Isn't a lot to go with on this point i think everybody probably sounds more sober than a 14 hour drunk that's what i mean they go wow everybody sounds so together like if you've been drinking poof and so clear man everybody's just a scholar over here shit y'all sound like the royal family this is crazy i had no idea i was drinking with the queen of england gee this is wild geez okay there duke of duke of sandwich very nice with the duke of earl i really want one of them sandwiches

um so anyway about two o'clock in the morning in walk cheryl oh into the residence here okay her her daughter by the way, is asleep here. At least one of her daughters is asleep in this residence. At Siler's house? At Siler's house. Because, yeah, they live there still. She moved back in three days ago, even though he said he was done with her before. So that's how that goes.

Now, she ends up leaving with some acquaintances between 4.30 and 5 a.m. She's still going out at 4.30 in the morning. She's actively doing shit. That's wild, first of all. She did her hair at midnight, James. Yeah. This is a wild style life all these people are living, man. I can't.

I'm tired listening to it. And they're not 23. All these people are 40. This is ridiculous. Get your shit together. Maybe I should get my shit together. Maybe you should get your shit together. That's true. Maybe we're doing it wrong. I don't know. That's a good point, Jimmy. You're right. So these acquaintances tried to drop her off very soon afterwards. She went out for like a half hour.

I don't know why the hell she went out, but they tried to drop her off at two different residences, but no one was home. Nobody would take her. No one will take her in. I don't know. No one was home. So she said, well, take me to Robertson because that's where I live. So that's where all my shit is. Might as well stay there.

So there we go. Now she is dropped off at about between 5 and 530 in the morning at the sila residence now craig is awoken at about five thirty in the morning by cheryl straddling him on top of him straddling him kissing him oh god that's how he wakes up yeah he said he you know he's been drinking quite a bit but he at this point he's more hungover because he's been sleeping for three and a half hours. So he's just like, what the fuck's going on? He's like stirring at the same time Robert wakes up in the couch across the room. Oh, no.

Oh, yeah. He wakes up, sees what's happening. He just wakes up to seeing Cheryl straddle and Cunningham making out. And he says, quote, just what the fuck is going on here? That's exactly how he, just what the fuck is going on here? The way this guy talks is awesome for the rest of the episode.

Great question, Rob. Just what the fuck is going on here? Her response, what would your response be if you were her? I was waking him up to send him home. Well, that's a good one, actually. That's not's not bad if he's drunk enough he might fall for it her response was oh go fuck yourself you see how this relationship has worked now for years right now it all makes sense i can see how this this gets into a fight.

This is, yeah, this is Ronnie Dobbs. You know, he might as well sing the song. You're brutalizing me. You might as well be singing it right now. It's fucking ridiculous. What the fuck's going on right here? Just what the fuck's going on here? Oh, go fuck yourself.

5.30 in the morning. Fair enough. Good morning.'s a wyoming good morning wow that's a wyoming hello howdy do so he gets up and starts just walking back and forth in a rampage just stalking back and forth pissed off you son of a bitch and goddamn bastards doing this but bullshit god damn it then he tells her get the fuck out you get out right now and she says no i don't wanna she says she's not leaving yeah he says get the fuck out for three minutes he berates her to get out of his goddamn get out of my goddamn house you no good goddamn boy you son of a bitch get the fuck out right now i don't want it you get out right now you get out right now. I don't want it. You get out right now. You get out right now.

No, I ain't leaving. This goes on for three minutes. Wow. Cunningham, while this is going on, he quietly gets up from the couch. I don't know what happened. He walks over to a chair next to the dining room table and starts putting his boots on. He's about ready to get the fuck out of here now. I'm going to get the fuck out of here.

While this is happening robert and cheryl continue to fight and argue at some point they stopped arguing i guess or continued to argue but she ended up grabbing a chair also and sitting in a separate chair at the dining room table with cunningham okay okay now at that somewhere it's around the time she sat down, Robert ran outside for a minute. Then he burst back in the door, okay? Ran outside to his truck and burst back in. Uh-oh. What is he grabbing in his truck?

He's grabbing the bone-handled six-inch blade is what he's grabbing right now. Oh, God. He walks back in and without saying a fucking word, in a normal, just calm walk, like normal shit, walks in straight towards Cheryl. He had the knife on his side and he showed Cheryl the knife. And he says, I'm going to do it. And she says, no, you won't. And I said, watch. That's what he said later on.

He said, I'm going to stab you. And she said, no, you're not. Go fuck yourself. And he said, watch. That's what he said later on. He said, I'm going to stab you. And she said, no, you're not. Go fuck yourself. And he said, you watch. And this went back and forth five times. You won't do it. Yeah, I'm going to stab you. No, you won't.

You ain't going to stab shit. Yes, I will. I'm going to stab. No, you're not. And then he finally, quote, reached over with his left hand, grabbed her, bent her back a little bit in the chair and stabbed her overhand, quote, right square in the chest. Oh, God. Grabbed her by the hair, pulled her back and plunged this fucking knife into her chest. Uh-huh. Okay.

Cunningham said, what the fuck did you just do? Yeah. What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? Dude. Dude. I'm still too drunk for this.

This is crazy. And he responded, Robert did, quote, I just killed this fucking bitch, and if you don't believe me, check her pulse. Okay. He likes to prove things. He does. Proof matters. Proof. I'll show you proof right now.

If you don't believe me, ask him. If you don't believe me, check your pulse. This is his second don't believe me of the night that he's done here. He then rinsed some of the blood off. Not all of it. Just a general, just a little rinsing of the blood. Yeah. Just to keep it from staining.

Just threw the knife in the kitchen sink. You know, rinsed it off a little, threw it in the kitchen sink. Then he went over and made sure she was dead. Didn't check her pulse, made sure she was dead. Then he told Cunningham, turned to him and said, quote, you're the one that caused it because you've been having an affair with her. Oh, it's my fault. That's right.

And Cunningham said, well, what the fuck? He goes, are you going to kill me too? What's going on? And he said, no, I'm not going to kill you because I want you to see just what the fuck you've done to my life oh my god huh what are you talking about i mean so okay sounds good illegal so peace yeah i'm giving him the old salute going all right well yeah i'll keep an eye on that then. Goodbye. I'm going to watch what happens to your life. Goodbye. See you. So then he said, so Cunningham, then Robert said, you want a ride home? He then offers him a ride home.

He's really hot and cold, this Robert. And Cunningham said, quote, I'm out of here, and just took off. I'll walk it. I got it. I'm leaving, man. This is crazy. Got to get my steps in. You know, shit, I didn't have a lot of exercise yesterday i really didn't i looked i looked at my phone i said wow i thought

i walked more than that and i said i'm gonna walk me a little bit so then um robert is left alone with cheryl's dead body here and a kid and a kid by the way at some point in the night the kid had come out and wrote woke robert up for some reason and they had talked and then the kid went to bed so the kid is just sleeping through all this so he then takes her and drags her outside leaving drag obvious drag marks and blood trails and everything like that and carries her to his pickup truck but he couldn't lift her into the pickup he couldn't he couldn't get her up there then he heard sirens because cunningham had left and gone to a neighbor's house and called 9-1-1 yeah for sure he's not a complete and utter lunatic so he called 9-1-1 that's at 5 55 the 9-1-1 call came in and and now Robert said he heard cop cars coming, so he, quote, just walked off.

Not even in his truck, just left, just walked away. Just dropped the body and walked off. Took off, man. Police arrive. Officer Jason Love gets there and pops out and immediately discovers Cheryl's body in between two vehicles in the driveway. He observed drag marks from the house through the house. I mean, it doesn't take a genius. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out what happened here.

There's a smattering of blood, I imagine. No shit. When he got there, Cheryl is still alive. Really? They rush her to the hospital, but she's pronounced dead at the hospital a little while later. So she made it about, I think about six there oh 648 she made it till almost an hour of before she finally died at the hospital but yeah and maybe if they got help a little earlier you know who knows so the officer spoke with cunningham at 6 12 or 6 30 with craig and he said he didn't see any signs that craig

was intoxicated at that time either now 6 10 or 610 or 6.15 a.m., Robert calls his friend Mark Lackument and said, can you give me a ride? I could really use a ride. Lackument said he found him about 6.45 or 6.50, at which time Robert told him, quote, might be going down this time. Might be going down this time. Might be going down this time. I've been in trouble before, but this time's for real. And he said that he believed that Cheryl had been stabbed or killed. That's what he said. She stabbed or killed or something.

They're like, okay. So they go back to this guy's house. And according to this Mark Lackumant guy, Robert didn't show any signs of intoxication at the time. And now Joanne Richards also received a telephone call from him at about 7 a.m. Cheryl's friend. Right. Robert calls from Lackumant's house and she gets the call. Then he called her back again between 730 and 745.

And Richard, he said, I killed Cheryl. That's what he called to tell her and so she said in the second call how you know how did you kill her and he said i stabbed her in the heart so then he called his father about 9 a.m and said that i killed that cheryl girl remember her yeah well she is dead now and i killed her stabbed her in the heart yeah then cops get there they somehow figure out that he's at Lackeyman's house. They get there. They find him hiding under a garage, hiding under a car in the garage.

Never find me here. And they arrest him. They said they smelled alcohol. He stated he'd been drinking the previous evening. And they observed dried blood all over his hands as well. They found the knife with the blood on it in his kitchen sink. And, you know, obviously this is pretty kind of cut and dry here. Pretty, pretty open and closed here. Now at the station, his hands are bagged. They put paper bags over his hands

there at the station like they do to preserve the evidence at the time of the interview here. And he also, he initialed his Miranda rights form at 1040. And after he'd been read them, there's a handwritten notation on the form, which was initialed by him that states he was informed of his rights prior to giving the statement, but signed the form after the paper bags were removed from his hands. It's a special legal thing here. So at 750 in the morning, his blood alcohol level was now. Think about this. They stopped drinking around two something right he took a nap 0.15 and 0.20 that's at 750 in the morning impressive yeah that's which is which is or 950 would have to be because he came that's when they got him yeah 950 so that's

a lot that's way later that's a lot so he was he was not questioned right away because the chief thought he might be too intoxicated. So at the time of questioning, slight odor of alcohol was detected. The chief said that he answered questions intelligently and his speech was not slurred. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1

and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious

crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital

to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. He did not appear to be intoxicated there.

He didn't stagger, stumble, or fall. He didn't walk with assistance. He walked without assistance. And that was because later on when they questioned him, they said that they wouldn't have questioned him if he had been significantly intoxicated. The guy who interviewed him, Detective John Elliott, said the tone of the interview is perhaps reflected best by this quote. OK, Robert, would you like to tell me your side of the story? What happened? It is apparent from the transcript of this interview here that he was responsive and gave coherent, detailed answers.

I don't know if coherence is the right word, but their detail. And that said, I think it's time for me and you to dip into a little small town murder piece 3000. Fantastic. It's a short little thing. It's only up to two pages. It's very short, but I would like you to interrogate me, Jimmy. Oh, terrific. You're going to be Detective John Elliott, which sounds pretty cool.

Yeah. Well, yeah. And we will start right at the top. Okay. And you have it ready? I think so, yeah. You're good. It looks like it.

I didn't know if you had your – I saw you had paper in your hand, but I'm like, is it in the right order? Okay. You start. Detective Elliot. So the argument was still in full bloom and going strong. Yes, it was. He cut him off.

So then what happened? I don't know if I dare to say. Okay. What did the guy with you do he says well no i ain't i ain't gonna okay so do you want to end this conversation or yeah until i talk to an attorney okay i mean if they want to if if they want to give me one if not i don't give a shit all right it's up to you if you want to give me one, if not, I don't give a shit. All right.

It's up to you if you want to talk to us, but if you want to talk to an attorney, we need to conclude this conversation right now. You know what I mean? I'm not going to try and bail out of this. I'm guilty. I know it. Okay. Do you want to stop the conversation now is that what is is what i'm asking because i can't ask you any questions okay what do you want to do well in fact i'll tell you piss on it i don't give a shit i got nothing to lose

see you don't want an attorney at this time? Nah, piss on it. And have you been drinking all night? Nope. Okay, had you been sleeping any prior to this happening? In fact, yeah, I have. I slept about two hours. Okay, were you at the time intoxicated? Did you feel like you were intoxicated? Had you been drinking that much?

No. So there he goes. That's the ridiculousness. By the way, piss on it. Piss on it. That is the most redneck way to throw something away. Just be like, oh, piss on it. Never mind.

Fuck it. But you say that with like, oh, damn it. I forgot my, damn, that other six pack. And now, oh'll piss on it. Never mind. Fuck it. But you say that with like, oh, damn it. I forgot my damn that other six pack. And now I'll piss on it. They got beer at the party. Never mind. It's all right. That's piss on it.

Yeah. Your life. Do you want to go ahead and confess to murder? I'll piss on it. Might as well throw my whole life away. Fuck it. That's not the appropriate. It's not piss on it.

Not the appropriate setting for piss on it. I would say at that point, that is amazing. Oh, piss on it. Multiple piss on it. I don't give a shit. That is fucking amazing. So he goes on to say that,

yes, the art, the night did start out with him wanting to fuck up cunningham shit but he said quote we ended up talking and becoming friends until cheryl showed up then shit happened damn good guy right there she's the bitch she's the bitch she did this that's what he said he said she started hugging and kissing on cunningham as to his words and that he repeatedly told her to leave but she wouldn't leave he said i told her over and over again to leave and she wouldn't leave and they said well you know what what did you did you warn her he said yeah i said i was gonna stab you and don't fuck with me

he's quote i said i was gonna stab her and don't fuck with me i says you're fucking with the wrong person she kept fucking she kept fucking with the wrong person she kept fucking she kept fucking with the wrong that's what he keeps saying he's like if she kept doing it they said did you add did you stab her out of a fit of anger or did you know the circumstances that you'd be in because of it and he said no i knew it was gonna happen so just gave you an out just gave you a a manslaughter charge fit of anger yeah crime of passion sir did you wake up freak out not before you knew it you were plunging a knife into her or no no i planned it really i brought the knife it took a minute to pull i had to think about it and i decided i'll kill her then go to prison probably that's what I did you didn't con did you contemplate what

were you you're gonna do when you went out and got the weapon out of a truck and then came back premeditatedly thinking about what you would be doing oh Jesus Christ yeah that's right that's about right yeah um hold on let me read the first degree murder statute to you did you knowingly willingly wantonly bubble yeah that's about right just what they said right there perfect and then they even say now did cunningham participate with you and he said no he didn't do shit he just sat there just nothing so he didn't try to pin anything on him you know that's it i'll take the rap autopsy reveals the cause of death is obviously a stab wound to the chest. Forensic pathologists estimated that she died, that she could have died within two to five minutes of the stab wound, but they kept her alive at the hospital.

They resuscitated her and kept her going. The wound path proceeded front to back and slightly downward, and the weapon used to inflict the wound perforated the right ventricle and right atrium of the victim's heart. She was fucked. There was no way to fix that. Right into the heart. Jesus. Perforated her pulmonary artery and cut her coronary artery in half. There's no way she would have survived that.

It was over. She should have been dead in five minutes. That's wild. According to the forensic pathologist, a significant amount of force was required to inflict a wound of this nature. Obviously, to get through a person's breastbone and everything else. Her blood alcohol level was.284. Incredible. These people are professionals.

And she was, I mean, walking around, talking shit, doing things. She didn't feel it. These people are really, really all drunks. I mean, that's what it is. DNA testing, and not to fucking bash a victim or whatever, but she's shit-faced. It's just a fact. DNA testing,

because that doesn't mean she deserved to die, but whatever. They confirm that the dried blood on his right hand and the blood on the knife retrieved from the sink and the blood at the residence are all Cheryl's blood, obviously.

Robert's charged with first-degree murder. Wow. Now, his lawyer says he was too drunk to confess. Okay. Obviously. They said, that's ridiculous. She said that the cops smelled a strong odor, and the victim's daughter testified that she was awakened, that she woke him up at 5 o'clock in the morning, which is right before Cheryl

came back. Right before she woke up, yeah. And she smelled a strong odor of alcohol and said that Robert was, quote, passed out. The daughter woke him up and said, where's mom? And he said that she was sleeping, even though she wasn't even home. She wasn't there, yeah. He just woke up and said, she's sleeping. And then the kid went back to sleep.

So the officer also talks about that he and another officer arrested him and handcuffed him, put hands behind his back, and he walked 150 to 200 feet to a patrol vehicle. They detected a slight odor of alcohol, which I feel like he always smells like alcohol, but said he walked without difficulty and did not stumble or stagger. He made a few statements on the way to the detention center, and they said he was logical. He didn't slur his speech. They said that he was, they asked him for basic information. Height, weight, address, phone number, birthday, social security, occupation. His father's address, phone number.

And he provided everything without confusion, without hesitation. Knew all that stuff. Somebody that can handle this. Right. He's a fucking alcoholic. Right. Just because his blood alcohol level's high doesn't mean he's drunk. His baseline is probably.12, for Christ's sake.

Yeah, that's after like three days of detox. I'm just walking around. That's his church day. So they said he didn't have any no-balance deficiencies, nothing like that. They said they performed a pat-down on him, and they asked him screening questions, no signs of any kind that he was under the influence. They said he seemed fine to us. They started interviewing him in the squad room.

And they said that by that time they had spoken to neighbors and such who said that he'd been drinking. They'd saw him drinking some the previous evening. The detective said he examined his eyes, listened to his speech and observed him walk and said he concluded that he was not intoxicated. And so he should he could go ahead and interview him. Now, picking a jury. This is fucking wild. This is fucking funny. So picking a jury, they say this is a quote from the from the prosecutor or from the defense attorney. I'm sorry. OK, so consequently, when you look at the case from an overall perspective, understanding that in this case, we're not denying that our client actually killed the victim at all. We're not denying that at all. But in this particular case, the defense really revolves around what degree of guilt it is in this particular case based upon the amount of alcohol use that my client had that particular night.

case based upon the amount of alcohol use that my client had that particular night. That's our case. So the juror says, quote, oh, no, no, this is the lawyer again. So based upon that, as you sit here now, you know that he's not guilty. He's presumed to be innocent. And as we sit here now, he's not guilty. So consequently, when you sit here, can you put that aside and judge this case fairly and impartially? Okay.

So then he says, first off, can I see a raise of hands from the prospective jurors as we sit here today before taking any evidence in? How many people think that Robert's guilty as he sits here today? How many people think he's innocent? People think he's innocent. So a prospective juror then fucking talks to Robert, actually, and says, your attorney there, the guy in the pencil tie, said this morning that there's no doubt that your client killed a woman. I didn't get that out of a newspaper or hear it on the radio. I heard it from him. I didn't know shit beforehand. I had no knowledge.

You're the dipshit that told us he's guilty, not the TV or whatever. Beforehand, I had no knowledge. You're the dipshit that told us he's guilty, not the TV or whatever. So his counsel says you will not hear from the defense that he did not stab the victim. What you'll hear is there's varying degrees when taking a human life. So so he says the lawyer says, so I guess my point is, as we sit here today, no evidence has been put on as to the elements of first degree homicide, which are more than just stabbing someone. So based on that, wouldn't it be a fact, does anybody disagree, that he's innocent until they prove him guilty? Great. Opening statement.

He says this, defense counsel, no, I'm not going to stand up at this point or any point in the trial, nor will my co-counsel, and look each of you in the eye and tell you that Robert did not stab Cheryl. Not going to tell you that his actions did not stab cheryl not going to tell you that his actions did not take the life of another human being the evidence is overwhelming that his actions did take a life he took a hunting knife and stabbed cheryl there was a witness to the stabbing yeah he's not good at being a defense lawyer and then he robert fled and then he confessed to the

police that yes he did stab cheryl the reason we're not here to decide if he's guilty of the stabbing. He did stab her, by the way. He just wants to. By the way, when you think of stabbing, you think of Robert. He's Mr. Stabby Pants, Mr. USA here. He said the reason we're here is that the state and prosecutor have charged the appellant with first degree homicide. He's saying it's not first degree homicide. He's saying it's not first degree homicide.

In his closing argument, he said, quote, it's important to note at the outset that in my opening statement, I told you that I would not stand up and look each and every one of you in the eye. And I was not going to tell you that he did not stab her. So right at the outset, we told you what this case was about. The heat of passion. That's what it's about. It's what's our stories about our movie. He says our movie is what our story is about our movie. We're our movie. It's what our story is about our movie. We're no fluff.

We're talking about a love triangle. Oh, are you pitching a script or what are you doing here? We're talking about a limited amount of durational time here. When you apply the facts of our movie of the manslaughter case with the law, you come out with one conclusion and that's that Robert is guilty. Yes, but he's guilty of a crime of passion heat of passion he's guilty of manslaughter thank you okay so the jury needs about three hours before they find him guilty of first degree murder so you can't do that

it's not that was a bad defense yeah just don They repeat. Like, the more I say he stabbed her, the more they're going to get, like, desensitized to it, I think is what it was. I honestly think that's what it was. Because you could try to dance around it, or he could be like, stabbed her, stabbed her, stabbed her, stabbed her right in the heart. And then after a while, after a week, you go, all right, yeah, he stabbed her. Great. Who cares? You know what I mean? That's what he's hoping for here.

So he could get the death penalty or life in prison. Either one is on the table here during sentencing first of all he wants a new attorney for sentencing i kind of don't blame him i'll be honest with you i kind of don't blame him but um his counsel and this is the uh this is what it stated in the form for this to try to get the new attorney his counsel sent him the opening statement and he disagreed with that he was was going to print up two more, two different ones supposed to show me then. He didn't show me the copies of them prior to trial. Then we go to trial and he comes up with this. Robert is guilty of this, you know, guilty of killing Cheryl and tells the jury not to accept, uh, not to accept his statement. And then it's

just hearsay. He says, I do not remember what happened the evening of this incident or the morning. And I've, I've tried to tell both of my attorneys that from the very start. I asked for help to try and find out what did happen because I have no recollection of what went on. And he said the counsel responded that the counsel was stuck because there's an attorney client privilege. And anything I say would go against what you say. And it's going to be detrimental to him. Then he says, quote, I've taken this abuse for eight months. That's what the attorney says. Attorney says, I've taken this abuse for eight months. That's what the attorney says.

Attorney says, I've taken this abuse for eight months. I poured my heart and soul into that trial, and everything was great after my closing statement, and now things have changed. Now he hates me. During the sentencing, victim impact here. One of her daughters, one of Cheryl's daughters, said that it was hard to put into words how the death of her mother's affected her. She said that her this Siler abused her mother so often that it became an endless cycle. And she said, I've always been scared Robert would take her life. Her son in law married to this daughter said that Cheryl tried to leave him several times, but she loved him and she always went back to him.

Hugh Siler, who's Robert's father father said that his son has a severe drinking problem no shit yeah and uh he's talked to him several times about it he said quote i'd like to see him get married to someone who doesn't drink and lead a decent life i don't want to see him go to prison well we're past that i mean you should you should have found him a nice church girl then because we're way past i'd like to see happen to his fucking life here. He plunged a knife into a woman's chest. It's over for him. Jesus Christ.

Laura, who is Robert's sister, said she believed her brother never got over the 1991 death of their mother. And that's when he began to act out was then. He blamed it on the death of the mother when he was a full-grown adult so at sentencing seiler was frustrated he said he was frustrated by the court process and felt he'd been treated unfairly and he says he says this out loud that he doesn't even remember the death and he believes it was actually the fault of the sheriff's department the more he thinks about it oh they did it they did it. They did it.

God damn it. Bastards. They all look alike with the same clothes on. I can't trust them. So after this outburst, he says this. Then he starts yelling and screaming, yelling at his attorney. You cocksucker this and all this shit. So he is dragged out of the court by deputies for using profanity during the sentencing hearing.

And as he's being taken away, right. You know how the doors are closed and you can hear someone that's gone. The last thing you hear is, I swear this is hilarious, quote, I don't want to be here. And then the doors close. I'm sure you don't. Sure you don't as part of the sentencing he is ordered to pay 4,614 dollars in funeral and gravestone expenses to Cheryl's family and ordered to pay 2,500 dollars in public defender fees and you sir may fuck off life in prison for you there you go you get life um he tries to appeal we'll go through this real quick uh he tries to appeal he says that

ineffective assistance of counsel number one and uh he says that he only met with his attorney one time before the trial really the attorney said i'm not required to meet with him on a daily basis weekly basis he's never made any requests to meet with me i've met with co-counsel many many times about the case and been in contact with it. Basically, I've done jury instructions on this case. I've done an investigation, directed investigators, and just because I haven't met with him doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Then he goes on to say, if the court relieves us, meaning him and his co-counsel, we'll just have to get new counsel and they're going to have exactly the same kind of problems with Robert that we've had because obviously Robert wants to go in a different direction than his confession, what the evidence indicates, and wants to go in a different direction.

We've done our best. Yeah. He wants to make his evidence and his confession not exist, and they do. So we really can't do anything like that. Sorry, man. He said, we're doing everything we possibly can for Robert. We're investigating this case, doing all this, and we're simply not doing what he wants us to do. But that's a problem that's going to exist with anyone. So through all the appeals process, they reject his appeals. The Supreme Court of the

state notes the overwhelming evidence against him, including multiple confessions to the crime, not only to the cops, but to friends, co-workers, family, her friends. He might as well have taken an ad out. Yeah, can I use the phone? Let me get that one phone call. I'm going to call the Times, and I'm going to put a personal ad out there with all this information in it. That's essentially what he did. He told everyone he's ever fucking met, by the way, you remember Cheryl?

Ah, done, killed her. Single male looking for companionship because i stabbed a woman in the heart right in the heart that's his that's his dating profile she is buried she's originally from michigan cheryl was she is buried though at uh at the link in lincoln county at the viola labarge cemetery in wyoming so lincoln county wyoming so she stayed out there. And her kids are out there. She probably wants to be buried so her kids can go see her, I would hope. Robert checked on him, still in prison.

So that's good. It's never getting out. It's been 20 years. Yeah, you never know, though. You never know if some weird appeal came out that flew under the radar and I didn't see it and there's a technicality and whatever. But no, Robert's still in prison, still awaiting whatever to never get out. So I have to say, piss on it is the least effective way to waive your right to counsel, I would say.

Right? Least effective defense as well. It shows you're not a serious person. Yeah. If they ask you a serious question you go ah piss on it like piss on it you don't want to hear like a pilot or like somebody like that say i'll piss on it piss on what let's fix it what's happening yeah oh ladies and gentlemen this is your captain speaking uh the the the right uh landing gear won't go up so So, you know what? Piss on it. We're going to go up.

Piss on it, bringing her down. Buckle up, bitches. And then just fucking beep. It goes off like that. No, piss on it. Let's not piss on it. Piss on it. We're going to give it a go.

Piss on it. Let's give it a shot. Woo! And then the fucking intercom turns off. If you hear your pilot say woo before the intercom turns up you're in deep shit you're about to piss on it as you're about to hear piss on it he at least told his co-pilot piss on him so that is green river wyoming and that is one hell of a weird goddamn tale of some very very drunk people having a wild night and sucks for cheryl i mean yeah everyone's an alcoholic here

but that doesn't matter it doesn't mean you should be stabbed in the chest because you're an alcoholic. She has four kids and shit. That really sucks. You're entitled to sleep with who you want. I mean, yeah. Her husband, though, is like, no more alimony. He's the only one that was happy, probably, but I hope he wasn't happy if he was a complete

asshole. Hopefully, though, if you like that story, tell everyone about it. Tell the world about it. Not only do you need to tell all your friends and post on social media that you like the show, because that helps spread the show more than anything does. You can advertise. You could spend millions of dollars advertising, and it doesn't mean shit compared to someone going to their friend and going, you know, that show's pretty funny. Really? That's all it takes. So thank you for doing that.

That show's pretty funny. Really? That's all it takes. So thank you for doing that. Also, you can help out the show for free. And another way, an easy way, is get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars and say something nice about the show. Say, just a bunch of turkeys over here. That's all.

Gobble, gobble, bitches. That's all. Turkeys. Doesn't matter. Tell us your favorite way to serve turkey. We don't care. Get in there. Leave the review.

It does help a lot. Also, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Live shows the whole rest of the year. August the 12th, Chicago. That's the biggest one we've ever had. So you want to be a part of the biggest small-town murder party ever? That's where it goes down. August 12th, Chicago. Get your tickets.

Shutupandgivememurder.com. Get in there. Still some left. And also, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotteotte and a few left in philly later on in the year otherwise everything else is sold out thank you for doing that everybody we do appreciate the shit out of that follow us on social media we are at small town murder on instagram at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook find us there find us everywhere follow us do all that shit uh you definitely want Patreon. I know that. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports, which, by the way, Crime in Sports is our other podcast.

If you haven't listened to it, you should listen to it. There's a lot of wild shit on there. If you want to cherry pick some murders at first and then get your feet wet and get into it, plenty of that. There's like 360-something episodes. So get in there and get after Crime in Sports as well. 360 something episodes. So get in there and get after crime and sports as well. But it's patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get bonus materials.

Anybody $5 or above, you not only get the entire back catalog, a couple hundred episodes, new ones every other week too. And one crime and sports, one small town murder, and you're going to get access to it all. And they bleed over there. You don't know the difference. It's fine. So for crime and sports, we're going to talk about it's just good stuff we're going to talk about theme park disasters part two part two we're going to get into more modern times and for small town murder the stanford prison experiment which was crazy shit 1970s stanford psychology they said they

got a bunch of students and said half of you are prison guards, half of you are prisoners. Let's see how they treat each other. And it's fucking bonkers psychologically how that went down. So get in there, patreon.com slash crimeandsports, and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well. Or Jimmy will fuck your name all up for you. You betcha. You know, as a favor. Absolutely.

That's what he likes to do. That's how he gets down with some shit. So do that. Keep coming back and seeing us. And also, you know, come to a live show. they are a lot of fun listen to the regular show listen to crime and sports and listen to your stupid opinions which is coming very soon here they finally gave us the clearance you'll see it because we're going to pump it a little bit on social media and they said they're going to advertise it i don't know we'll see what happens your stupid opinions we're

very excited to make fun of people's dumb reviews of everything and under the fucking sun. You want to follow us online? Very easy to do that on social media. You just head over to Shut Up and Give Me Murder. Drop down menu. Links to all that shit. Follow us. Do it.

Keep hanging out with us. We'll see you back on the regular show and maybe Crime and Swords if you come around. Either way, thank you so much. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members. You can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.