Small Town Murder - #414 - Don't Anger The Princess - Bryant, Arkansas

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

This week, in Bryant, Arkansas, a perfect little family isn't so perfect, when their teenage daughter begins to disobey, do drugs, and not listen to her parents. This causes major problems, and drama within the family, causing divorce, and untold stress. This young lady then decides that she's tired of anybody trying to tell her what to do, and takes calculated, and awful steps to accomplish her goal! Along the way, we find out that Arkansas is cat nip for tornados, that adult court means adult sentencing, and that crying comes with tears!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us all aboard the murder train, you turkeys. We're pulling away from the station. Gobble, gobble indeed. Let's do this. Chugga-chugga, gobble, gobble. Let's get it on. So we have a crazy story for you today.

A wild story. And somebody, I don't know why, but this person made me very angry. And I've just been so annoyed with this person all day putting this together. So we will get to that very quickly first, though. Shut up and give me murder.com. September 8th, Atlanta. September 9th, Chicago. Or not Chicago, Charlotte, another CH city there.

Those are your next dates that we're going to. Tickets available for those two dates and not much else for the rest of the year. We have a few left in Dallas in December and then a couple left in Philly, and that is it. Everything else is sold out. Thank you for being awesome. Shutupandgivememurder.com is where you get those tickets. Come out and join us. It's going to be a big party.

We are jacked and excited for all of it. You definitely want to also head over to patrion.com slash crime and sports, where we have bonus episodes, tons of stuff, all kinds of bonus episodes, anybody $5 a month or above. It's a cup of coffee. Come on.

And just the price of a cup of coffee, you're going to get a couple hundred back episodes to binge on right away of bonus episodes that are available nowhere else. And then, of course, you're going to get two new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. This week is no different. This week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about Carl Malone and what the hell was up with him.

Why did he impregnate teenage girls? Why was that not considered a bigger deal as he went on with his career? Tell us, Carl. Why didn't that get brought up every time? Carl Malone, who impregnated a 13-year-old, why wasn't that brought up every time he came to the free throw line? We'll talk about that. The quarter was tough, but how was the third trimester? Yeah, how was that?

And then for small-town murder, two of the craziest murders I've ever come across. This is kind of you look at thousands of murders, and every once in a while you have one that stands out. And maybe it's not quite in the right kind of town. Maybe it's in a, you know, maybe it's just the whole case doesn't work. But the murder is so crazy that you take it and you put it aside for something. And this is that day. We're going to put two of these craziest murders ever together and talk about them just because they're so they're weird. So let's do this.

That's Patreon dot com slash crime and sports there. And you'll get a shout out at the end of the regular show. That said, I think it's time to get right into this because we have a lot of show here. Oh, your stupid opinions. Next week. Next week, we will have a date for you on this one. It's going to be in September. An actual date that we know it's happening because we've been told it's okay and they're going to advertise it.

It's happening. So we are jacked. Can't wait for that. That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say here and hear a wild story? And arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this. What do you say here, Jimmy? Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. Earlier in the week, we were in Massachusetts. We've been in North Dakota, California. Let's head down south and go to Arkansas. That's everybody's reaction to it.

Bryant, Arkansas. Bryant. Bryant. Bryant, Arkansas. arkansas that's everybody's reaction to it okay bryant arkansas bryant bryant arkansas it is kobe like kobe exactly big country central arkansas yeah central arkansas about 20 minutes outside of little rocks this is a little rock suburb here yeah about two hours and 15 minutes to van buren arkansas which was our last Arkansas episode. Judging Mother. That one was why I remember that. That was disturbing. Six months ago or so. This is in Saline County, and the population here is

20,299. So, not a big place here at all. It's been growing a lot lately. It was half of that 10 years ago. So, 20 years ago. The median household income here is all. It's been growing a lot lately. It was half of that 10 years ago, so 20 years ago. The median household income here is high. This is like if you want to get away from the city and have a bigger house and stuff. Yeah. Median household income here, $76,965. It's a little bit higher. Median home price, $216,100. And we'll talk right now. It's a pretty hopping suburb.

Our story took place in 2003. It was a lot more rural back then. So we'll talk about it. A little bit of history here. European settlers established themselves on the Hurricane Creek in the early 19th century. Yeah. Now, listen to this shit. This is the local legend that I don't believe for a heart.

Not for a second. OK. Holds that these people were traveling to Texas when they came upon the flooded creek and were unable to cross for a few days need to go all the way to Texas. This will do. Yeah. Now, what were they going to Texas for? Probably something, right? I can't imagine they were just like, well, never mind my land thing or my brother's got me a job in a mine or something. None of that shit. I'm staying here.

This Rio's just as grand. Let's stay here. Screw it. It's River Creek. Same shit. So there was a skirmish in the area during the Civil War that amounted to nothing. A couple people, I think two people were killed.

A few were injured and no ground was given either way. Rail service in the 1870s finally got the place cooking a little bit because it's a railroad now. Then it was hit by economic struggles in the early 1900s, early 20th century.

And they continued when the Depression hit. Then they got even worse. So they weren't doing well. It wasn't the roaring 20s here. It was still they had a depression for like 40 years. These people. This is this is a tough, hardscrabble area. Then World War Two saw.

Then that comes up. But that actually helped the place. World War II saw development here help the place develop as demand for the area's bauxite grew. B-A-U-X-I-T.

Bauxite. Oh, so it's some sort of mineral. It's a mineral, yeah. It's a sedimentary rock with relatively high aluminum content. Oh. so it's some sort of mineral. It's a mineral, yeah. It's a sedimentary rock with relatively high aluminum content. Oh. And it's the world's main source of aluminum and gallium. Is that right? Yes. So during World War II, they found

bauxite deposits near Bryant. It became vital to the war effort, so then people moved here. Yeah. And between 1940 and 1950, the population increased from 173 to 387. My God, boom. It's a booming place, 387. Reviews of this place.

Let's get a few reviews in. Okay. Sure. Five stars. Brian is a small suburb outside of Little Rock and right after Benton, Arkansas. It is a very nice and safe neighborhood area with everything you really need all right there. It is filled with good people and wonderful jobs. I've never heard that before.

Filled with good people and wonderful jobs. No assholes or shit jobs. Not a McDonald's in town, huh? No McDonald's there. All right. Well, there is a McDonald's. It's just it's only the good jobs. It's wonderful to work there.

Just all managers. Three stars is this one. Most of the time, natural disasters are not an issue. I would hope not. First of all, I would hope not. Then they say, but tornadoes and thunderstorms occur occasionally. Yeah. What else?

What do you want? Earthquakes? What else? Yeah. Arkansas is covered in tornadoes. It's always tornadoes. Tornadoes actually kind of spur some action in our story today. So that's interesting here.

Three stars. The restaurant selection is nice in this area. But when it comes to a nightlife, the area is lacking. Yeah, it's a fucking suburb of Little Rock. What do you expect? What do you want here? The happening shit's elsewhere. Wow.

Two stars. This is funny. Quote, I personally feel trapped here. This is, we start to get some real despondency. While the high school is fun, I find myself having nothing to do with friends. This is a high school kid writing this. We have to travel to Little Rock

for any restaurants or activity besides going to the park or each other's house. Luckily, it's only 20 minutes away, you whiny asshole. It's 20 minutes. Fucking drive there, then. That's a long bike ride, Jay. Jesus Christ. The people are rude and stereotypical. My middle and elementary school experience were rough, and the teachers have scarred me.

Oh. Scarred me. Oh. Scarred him. Wow. Or her. I don't know. We do not have enough money to eat healthy, nor does this town have the accessibility for it. Okay. I don't know.

It's a kid complaining. And then finally, two stars. This is my favorite one. Two stars. The foundation is all off. That's it. That's the whole review foundation of what your house the town uh your family city hall what are we talking about here the society

what what are we here structurally this place is fucked that is awesome i found that hilarious the foundation is all off like you're supposed to know what that means. Okay. Things to do here. Bryant Fall Fest. Okay. It doesn't sound that great. It says the day's activities.

The fall in the south? Fall in the south. Come on down. Is that a thing? I guess. I mean, there's a fall in the south, I suppose. The day's activities will include food trucks, booth vendors, kids land, car show, 5K, a youth fishing derby. And this year's newest addition, monster trucks.

Hell yeah. We're going to bring them all in. And then it says, quote, all in one day. Oh, all in one day. We're doing it all in one day. One day, baby. Wrap it up. Fishing derbies for kids 15 and under.

You can do that. What's a fishing derby? See how many fish you catch or the biggest fish you catch. Or do you go crash your boat into another kid? I think, yeah, you try to do that. Hope a fish falls out somehow. Try to knock a kid off a boat. It's fishing for fucking, yeah, I've seen those before.

There's also. Fucking go in his hand. There's face painting, bouncy houses, games, train rides, a petting zoo, and more. The Chamber is very excited to bring monster trucks to the 31st Annual Fall Fest. Come watch cars get crushed by a war eagle at 11 and 1130. Then you can take a ride in a monster truck. That's right. You can ride Wheels of Freedom for only $10.

For $10, we'll try not to murk your child. Yeah, we'll do that. We'll stick them in there. And then also there's Wings Over Bryant, which is Arkansas' only air show. That's what it says. It's a public event. The whole state? Whole state, apparently, here.

Yeah. Nearly 25,000 people showed up the first year, and they're expecting another deal here. They're watching Aftershock jet truck versus Pitts Raptor in a race. A jet truck? It's a jet. I don't know. No, they put a jet engine on these vehicles, James. It'll burn your fucking eyes out and your nose when it goes down the track.

Is it drag racing? This is an air show and your nose when it goes down the track is it drag racing this is an air show so i think it's in the air i don't know what that means a jet truck i don't know what a pitts raptor is either so i don't know i'm a that's a plane i don't know but a jet truck doesn't matter let's talk about some murder who cares let's move on wings on a monster truck all right we gotta go back in time here, about 20 years. Okay. 2003. Yeah. All right.

2003. Let's talk about a couple here. James Craig Williams and his wife Gwen. All right. 2003, we'll go around that time. We'll kind of back up from there. But they get married at a younger age. They have one child.

One child amongst them. She's a little girl named Amy Williams, born in 1987. And from all accounts, like James is a mom's attentive, takes care of the kid. James is a good dad, involved, kind, not an abusive lunatic, doesn't like beat mom in the living room or any of this kind of shit. Decent guy. Seems to be a decent household to raise a child in. Everything seems fine, right? We're all good.

Amy's happy. Amy's happy. March 1st, 1997 comes along, though. She's nine years old at this point. She was born in 87 and hasn't had a birthday. So she's nine years old at this point she's born in 87 and hasn't had a birthday so she's nine years old at this point march 1st 1997 16 tornadoes were spawned in arkansas that day oh god yeah killing 25 people wow so they said no uh weather episode since then has resulted in as many uh local fatalities as

this really yeah yeah that's better than one tornado. The deadliest one before that was in 1952. They had 111 deaths. But we also built things a little differently then. The foundations were way off. Way off, way off. So there were three tornadoes during the event rated F4, which is fucking strong.

This happened between 2 p.m. and 7 p.m. here, they said. And they said there were equally as many tornadoes rated as high. And the Etna Denning Tornado of 2011 and the Mayflower Velonia Tornado of 2014 were the three F4 tornadoes during this 21-year span. So every once in a while. It doesn't happen very often. It seems like often enough to not live there, though, right? They got three in a day. That's too many. Yeah.

And then in a decade, in 20 years, they had a bunch of F4s. That's too many F4s. Too many, yeah. So Amy remembers this tornado at nine years old. Really? The girl. I'll bet you, yeah. She said it came on so fast, just like out of nowhere.

It's a fucking tornado. That's what they do. Right. And she said her and her mom went to lay in the bathtub, and her father, James, went to look out the front door. Oh, James, don't do that. He said, I don't know. I guess he's crazy is what she says later on,

which is really annoying that she said that later on when you hear the whole story. Okay. Then she said he came running in and like jumped in and laid across them in the bathtub, like on top of them and inside the bathtub, like hovering over them and also being inside the bathtub she said she remembers looking up from being in the tub laying there and seeing

the roof come off of the house and fly away gone and she'll later say that the the whole house was destroyed except for the bathroom, parts of the bathroom, and she said that is how she knows that there's divine intervention because of that. Meanwhile, where do they tell you to go during a tornado? The fucking bathroom. The fucking bathroom because it's the most structurally sound room in the house. It's got tile, pipes, porcelain things, heavy things. The bathtub is, the house is built around the tub.

It's built around it. It's literally built into the tub. It's solid. That's why they tell you to go in there. Yeah. So there's a reason why you don't hang out in the bedroom and get blown away by your tornado. You go in the bathroom.

So that's just, you know. A lot of loose shit everywhere else in the house. Yeah. She can thank 111 people who were sucked up in 1952 and they went, wow, we should probably go in the bathroom, huh? Fuck., we should probably go in the bathroom. People who tried to hide under the table. But she's giving Jesus the W. What do you want? She's giving it up.

She's giving it up to the big guy. That's all. It's fine. You can think whatever happens for whatever reason you want. Have fun. So whole house is destroyed, though. So they're completely, their house is gone. Unless they want to live in a bathroom with no roof, it's fucked. There's not a lot of privacy. No, that was when they lived in Little Rock, actually.

So they end up moving to Bryant there because their house is destroyed. So they move out to Bryant. And she said at first, you know, the first couple years her parents tried to keep her in the private school that she was in in Little Rock. But the commute and everything else was just too much with work and, you know, drop her off hard. Yeah. It gets really hard.

So they ended up taking her out of the private, of the public school or the private school and putting her just in public school and Brian. Yeah. And she said she was just so sheltered. She was in private school her whole life and had no idea it was going on. She's like 13 at this point. Yeah. You know what I mean? So to get a rude awakening about what yes really like and that's

what she said it was a whole other world private school and public school like it was a totally different thing she'd been so sheltered she said on one of her first public school days she'd been talking to a girl on the bus for a couple of days whatever and she said that they got off the bus and the girl asked her if she wanted to come over to her house and smoke a joint yeah yeah you know it's 2001 or whatever she's like yeah come over my house let's burn one let's go amy didn't know what she was talking about she didn't know what that was she said what's that i don't know what you thought what you're talking about she didn't know what a joint was because she had no access to it.

Her parents are super religious, too. It's not like they're sitting around watching Cheech and Chong or fucking Dazed and Confused or something. You know what I mean? They're watching Pat Robertson and shit or whatever and nice kids programming and stuff like that. So she has no idea about pop culture or drug culture or anything. So she says, I don't know what that is and the girl said we'll fucking come over and fucking hang out then well you better come find out we come find out so amy said well this girl seemed fine she seemed like put together fine

everything seemed fine so whatever she's doing it can't hurt i guess so why not i'll go over and hang out and plus i'm in public school now i'd like to have some friends sure so if this girl wants to hang out with me and she lives close to me and we should hang out so she said she started smoking weed at 13 or 14 later on she says this very matter-of-factly like this is how it happens to everybody and it's you know a foregone conclusion which is annoying she said you know how it is the weed gets boring so you start taking pills and you start doing this and that. Nope. At 15, she's saying that's what happens.

No. I've been happy with just weed for decades now. You know how it works. Yeah. Some people move on to other stuff. Some people are like trying to climb a ladder, and that's who she is. But it's not boring. The weed's not boring.

You just want more. You just want to feel different you want a different feeling right yeah you want a different high and fucked up you that's exactly what it is so she said yeah 13 14 she starts smoking weed she says you know you start taking pills you get out of control you know how it goes that's normal so she said she um you know took to the change of schools by partying and doing drugs. That's how she did it. That's how she tried to fit in.

She said at that point she started stealing money, too, from her parents and from a couple bucks here and there to party, to get beer. You know how teenagers are. Yeah. Started skipping school to hang out and smoke weed and drink beer and fucking bullshit. She's burning out, babe. Yeah. She's being a chick that I would have went out with in the fucking she's burning out babe she's yeah she's being she's being a chick that i would have went out with in the 10th grade that's who she's being

on turn up tune out so you know that's who she's being yeah so so much so that her parents i guess her parents realize what's going on after after a while after a year or two. And in January of 2002, she is sent to the Baptist Recovery Teen Center. Oh, they really figured it out. For two weeks. They sent her to religious rehab? Religious rehab. Any rehab we're going to talk about is a religious-based rehab that we're doing here.

All of it, yeah. It's all church-based and church-sponsored or whatever. So she's in the facility for two weeks. And then they let her out, and they're like, well, she's all good now. She should be fine. I mean, shit. All fixed up.

We gave her some Jesus. Less pills, more Jesus, and here she is. Enjoy. So she gets out. Super weird. It didn't fix her. Strange. It didn't take? it didn't solve everything

it was strange just two weeks in a rehab didn't solve everything weird right two weeks reading bible verses and she still wants coke strange so she stole her parents car at one point oh she steals her parents car while they're they go to sleep she grabs the keys and takes off to go hang out with friends obviously obviously. She's not going to just do it to... I just figured I'd drop my dry cleaning off overnight. Had some errands to run. Had some movies to return. It's 2003. I had to stop at

Blockbuster. You know how it is. So she hung out with friends and smoked a joint with her friends. She claims she had no idea that it was laced with dust. Oh boy. Now, if you've ever smoked a dusted joint you know it is because you go why does this weed taste like magic marker you get it in the first the first instant it touches your lips you taste it and you know that this is what

it is it's fucking magic you can taste it it's clearly magic marker it takes over everything is there a teacher in here running a lesson why yeah, what is that? Am I dusted or is a teacher writing something down? Or is that a dry erase? What do we got going on here? So she says it was dusted. She said she had no idea what happened. Doesn't remember.

Basically, halfway through the joint on, she has no idea what happened. Wow. None. No clue. She ends up, as she put it she woke up this is a hell of a way to wake up she's 16 years old she wakes up 30 miles away from her house from where she started in a kmart parking lot covered in her own piss soaked in her own piss kmart parking lot 30 miles away in the car that's how she wakes up if you don't wake up and go man that's some good shit wow yeah i either have to never do anything

again or do that every day one of the two only that that is quite the reaction that's time traveling babe that's blacking out so yeah that's crazy so she that's how she said so she said she didn't remember getting there driving there don't know how she got there but she was in the car and clothes on or not clothes on covered in her own piss soaking piss so pissed she doesn't know that's her own piss though well yeah i guess not could be someone could have pissed on her crotch but she is There's no one else there. She drove herself, said, I'm going home, and instead was like, I'll go sleep it off probably in her, you know, fucked up mind. I'll go sleep it off in the parking lot.

Oh, look, Kmart. There we go. And there she goes. She pisses all over herself, or she might have pissed all over herself when she was high and said, fuck it, I'll just go to sleep. It'll dry. You know how we are when you're wasted. Who knows? Or a homeless guy who just said, I'll look a toilet and pissed on her.

I'll look a toilet. i'll look a toilet i better open that locked car and piss on a teenager that's normal so she gets home yeah covered in piss oh with her parents car oh not good she said her parents were waiting for her in the living room i'm sure obviously very upset here if you think your dad stands at the front door and waits for a tornado, you should see when you steal his car. So all of this bullshit is causing a lot of tension between her parents. That's the thing. They start fighting and all this. Blaming each other.

It's just tension. So who knows? So her parents tell her that they're going to go to the courts with her because they can't deal they're going to tell the courts they you know you need to do something with her basically i don't know i didn't know that was an option i didn't need i didn't know you could just say my kids are real a real fuck up do we can you what do we do here can you take her and do something like i don't know that's your problem problem. You're the judge, I guess. I don't know.

That's not just me that thought that was weird, too. No, no. What you do is call the police for her stealing the car and press charges. Then a judge will look at her. You don't just take her to a judge and be like, sir. They don't do that, though. No. No.

sir. They don't do that, though. No. No. In October 2002, they file an F.I., all capital letters, an F.I.N.S. petition alleging that she was out of control, habitually disobedient, truant, smoked marijuana, and displayed anger toward her parents.

She filled out a court document and said, our 16-year-old's kind of a pain-in-the-ass teenager. Can you do something about it? They filled out a court document and said, our 16-year-old's kind of a pain in the ass teenager. Can you do something about it? They filled out a court paperwork that said, we're shit parents. Can you help? You just described me at 16.

And you, habitually disobedient, truant, check, check, smoke marijuana, absolutely displayed anger toward her parents. Yeah, the time is right, sure. I mean, it's everybody that listens to Twisted Sister. What do you want? And the court, imagine the judge getting that and going, oh my God, there's a teenager. She smoked marijuana and was angry at her parents. Everybody, all hands on deck for this one. The judge read it and went, maybe she'll be a judge one day.

I did it. What were you like when you were a teenager, mom and dad? You know what I mean? How dare you? This is, she had just finished her sophomore year at Bryant High School during this. Yeah. And she said in court, I don't come from a family of addicts, abuse, or any type of trauma really.

And she'll repeat that for years, you know, and nothing like that. Yeah. Anything. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine

and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, andbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing this mother lied like a liar like a liar and if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid

follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and add free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts so because of and the court actually takes action this finn's petition must be a thing you can fill out i've never heard of it before i always just thought if i have a kid i have to deal with her or him i gotta deal with that's my problem you drop it at a fire to fire you either those are your options fire station or live with it right like you can't just go to the corner punch yourself in the face and keep going i don't know what else you can do but apparently they figured it out so evidently it's's. Because of truancy and behavioral problems here, she's admitted to the Pinnacle Point Behavioral Hospital in Little Rock.

I think it is Pinnacle Point. She is in here for six months, which for a 15-year-old kid, that's a lifetime. Six months is like almost an entire school year. Remember how long a school year was? Holy shit. That's a lot of your life. Yeah. When you check into freshman year and you go four years of this, that seems like forever.

Fucking ever. God knows it's forever. So this, though, six months for a 15-year-old is a long time. So a Dr. Gary Hogan brother uh describes or not describes or prescribes yeah terry's brother gary that's what i said you know my brother gary brother my brother gary brother he'll take care of your 15 year old if she's kind of a cut up you know you walk around she'd be like boys will come in and drop her off too late at night and stuff you take her to my brother gary hogan brother and he does all sorts of stuff.

He'll put her on a workout program, brother. That's a corrector. Terry's brother, Gary. So six months, he prescribes pro Prozac for her as a, and sleeping pills and stuff like that.

I don't know. I'm not a doctor, but I'm not either, but she's not depressed. She's having a great time. She's depressed. Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't a doctor. I'm not either, but she's not depressed. She's having a great fucking time. It doesn't seem like she's depressed. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't seem like.

But maybe in there, she was displaying depression because she wasn't doing what she felt like doing. It was in the fucking pinnacle behavioral hospital. I'd be depressed if you stuck me in there, too, probably. Perhaps you're smoking weed and having a great time. Then you put somebody in some shit like this. They might become a little despondent. Yeah. So she said during that, they went on a group tour to a McPherson prison, to the prison there.

Oh, Scared Straight. Into the women's program. And she said there was all these ladies doing the whole scared straight thing with them. And, you know, I'll be fucking sticking my fist up your ass and all that kind of shit. You know what I mean?

Oh God. Yeah. All that kind of shit. So, um, she says though that that didn't do anything because she never thought of herself as a, you know,

going to be a fucking prisoner. So it was like, yeah, that's great for them. I'm a, I'm a blonde girl whose parents are together and everything's fine like that's ridiculous so she says that the the hospital she hates it because they immediately medicate the kids that's what they do she said they immediately medicate them and that's all they do for them and they medicate them so after the second

time um here this is the second time she's been a rehab total at the Pinnacle Place. She returns home. She's got her Prozac and she's supposed to receive outpatient treatment through the Arkansas Psychiatric whatever, which is ongoing, and she's supposed to do all of that. She's supposed to take her medicine. She's supposed to go see her therapist and talk about her medicine if it's

working and all of her other issues. Because she seems to have issues, no matter what. For sure. I don't know if medication's the answer, but issues are issues. Somebody needs to talk about them at the very least. So she continues, though, to do whatever she wants outside of that. She does drugs. She fucks up. She's bad.

She comes home late. She yells at her parents and, you know, comes home with, like, you can smell the roach in her pocket. Yeah. You smell a half-burned joint already and just not giving a shit. Is this all weed ashes in here? It's just like a burnt weed.

It's like burnt. It's kind of like a peanut buttery smell when it's burnt. You know what I mean? Yeah. A little burnt. Something. So she argues with her mom a lot.

And Gwen, her mom, said that shared behavior would include yelling, slamming doors, swearing, not coming home at curfew, being argumentative, and being angry. These are, again, that's teenage stuff. You yell, slam doors, swearing, not coming home at curfew, being argumentative. These are all the things that people do because they can't handle the fucking hormones that their body is creating. Yeah, but she said she also had been in fights at school. Oh. And she's getting in trouble at school now, getting in fights at school all the time.

I don't know what her fucking deal is, but she is definitely, when she isn't truant, she's getting in fights apparently. You remember the girl that fucking fought all the time. Oh, yeah, yeah yeah that girl man but that girl had didn't have this home life which is weird that girl you'd look at and go yeah she's got problems i know the trailer she lives in and i know all that now she is going to move into a trailer now by the way really yes a rural trailer but it's not like a scumbag trailer it's just a rural trailer here um i guess mom can't take it anymore she says she can't control this her the strife between the two parents after this have caused the parents to

break up and move into separate residences oh wow so when she comes home from the hospital the parents are separate yeah and she moves in with mom and then mom says i can't handle you anymore you're not listening to me at all you're doing all the shit that you you know you went into the hospital for uh you're going to live with your father oh boy you're living with your dad now that's what's going to go on here bye okay so your behavior has caused your father and i to have a rift where we can't even get along yeah now i can't get along with you you go get get along with him. You go too, and it'll just be me. I've ridden myself of both of you. That's it.

All of my problems gone now. Wow. Talk about what did the one lady call it on a couple hundred episodes ago? Juvenile encumbrance, I think the one lady called her kids. I think that's what it is. She is, yeah. Yep. She moves in with her dad in a rural trailer, and she says that her dad had an easier time controlling her. Mom says so, too.

Just dad has just an easier time. She always says she's like daddy's little girl, so she doesn't want to disappoint her dad too much. So she gives her dad a little more leeway and treats her mom like, let's teenage girls fight with their moms a lot. That's normal. It's just the thing. I mean, it's not even just teenage. It's you generally what I've seen in my experience. I don't know if it's everybody, but the you bond with the opposite sex parent.

So if you're the boys, yeah, it's a weird tend to follow mom. You're the girl. You tend to follow dad. It's a weird thing. So July 30th, 2003. Yeah. So this is summer vacation for her. She's off school.

James, dad, he gets up, he goes to work. Okay. She, Amy, wakes up about 1230, 1245 in the afternoon. Yeah. She's living the life right now. That's great. Fantastic. Shortly thereafter, she spoke on the phone with her dad here.

And then she said she was laying on the couch he's at work she's laying on the couch just chilling doing your teenager july 30th thing and she said she quote saw a blackness in the hallway i saw a blackness forming in the hallway an evil presence it was yeah like the shadow monster like stranger things yeah and even i see in the trailer yeah this is she's she's ahead of her time this girl so it's just accumulated it's a key it's just mass amassing right now an evil presence in the hallway she feels it right she can tell okay so she said as she's laying there with this evil presence forming and this blackness forming in the hallway, she formed a plan to kill her father. If he came home upset, quote, because she said this later, because I knew I wasn't going to take that.

I'm not going to take any of his shit. Yeah. So she said as soon as she woke up, felt a weird feeling that day and then the evil blackness you know forming in the hallway and she's not going to take it again twisted sister she's not gonna take it and she said that a strange thought entered her mind and that was she could just her thought was just quote kill your dad yeah yeah you know we've all had that thought right just kill your dad so okay that thought she said that her father never hit her never like you know did terrible things to her and molest her didn't do anything to her he'd yell at her from time to time

and constantly told her she was bad because she was using drugs and not coming home on time and skipping school you know Which is being a parent. Yeah. Like a dad would do. Hey, you're skipping school to do drugs and fuck around and steal my car. That's bad. Stop doing that. Knock that shit off.

That's a parent. If he didn't do that, I'd go, what a shit fucking parent he is. What an asshole. Yeah. So around 1.30 p.m., she took an hour to formulate this whole thing she takes a deer rifle from her father's closet he's at work still she loads it she puts earmuffs on for hearing protection and everything and she goes out back and fires off around in the backyard just to see what kind of kick it has and she can control it and give it a test yeah later though she says she

got her dad's gun and practiced shooting all day she said oh so i don't know originally it says one round but then later on she says she kept doing it i'm not sure if you're doing it all day dad's gonna notice that that many rounds are gone yeah he's gonna notice or unless he's got like boxes upon boxes if he's like an avid deer hunter or something. I don't know. He scares the shit out of me. Yeah, that's a lot. But I don't know if he's maybe, we're on sale and he's hunting seasons coming up.

I have no idea what you do in rural Arkansas. Yeah. They had a big sale over there at the, whatever the shit. It was buy one, get 75 free. I was amazing. You should see it, man. We all had trunks full of shit so she gets her dad's done does a gun does all that then afterwards when she's all done

she takes the earmuffs off she reloads the rifle and puts it back in the closet like it like like it never happened loaded rifle in the closet okay Okay. So, yeah, loads it up. It's in there. So dad comes home from work. As he does, gets a drink, makes some small talk here. They just, you know, how was your day? She said, good. I was okay.

How was your day? She got a drink. He got a drink, I mean. And then at that point, she said, quote, it was like something else was in control of my life that day. she said quote it was like something else was in control of my life that day you're gonna see a pattern of never fucking being responsible for shit with this passing the buck already to an evil presence to not be there's no one else here sweetheart it's just you babe that's it so fucking figure it out you know what i'm saying she um, it felt like someone else was in control of my life. She said at that point he's sitting in a chair watching television.

She went in and got the loaded rifle and the earmuffs and put them in her bedroom. Okay. All right. She then asked her father, would you come here for a minute? He came down. He asked her if she asked him to look that way so she he would turn his back to her yeah facing the bedroom wall yeah what's over there so he turns his back to her bedroom door which she's seeing him through the bedroom door there he does he turns around at that point she puts the earmuffs

on grabs the rifle which she already haded, and shoots him in the fucking back. Coward shit. Yes. Shoots him in the back. He falls down. Yeah. Okay. She said later on, quote, when I saw him fall, something inside me shifted.

That's what she said later on. But it didn't shift that much because she also says she panicked, and rather than calling 911, she came over and shot him again. Chambered another. Made fucking sure he was dead. Oh, my God. Execution style on the fucking ground. Then, again, doesn't try to help him, doesn't call 911. She grabs his keys and wallet and takes off.

Okay, now we've got robbery. This is, yeah, now you're making it really bad for yourself. This is what death penalty cases are, is this right here. You know what I mean? She said, quote, so I get and run in my dad's truck. I realize the gas is almost empty, so I have to get gas. Well, you brought a wallet. Yeah, so she's going to fill up gas.

As she's going to get gas, she passes her mother on the road. Oh, my God. Her mother knows she's not supposed to be driving her father's truck. Yeah. And what the fuck is she doing out here? So her mother fucking pulls a U-turn. Puts a U-turn and follows her. So they pull over to the side to talk to each other there.

And she told her mom, I need to get the cops because someone broke in and hurt dad. She acted like she got the truck and took off to go get help for her father. So thank God I ran into you on the road. That's what she's trying to get across here. So they go to the cops. And the cops come to the house. So you got to come to the house. They come to the house.

And at this point, she just starts making shit up for the cops. Like what? Well, just that other people did it. You know, I came in and he was I heard a gunshot. I don't know what happened. Meanwhile, he's in front of her bedroom door. Yeah, right. You know what I mean?

If they do the fucking test on her hand, they're going to see she's just fired a rifle. It's terrible. Not well planned she'll later on say you know you watch dateline and you know to cover up you do stuff that's what she said later on like we're talking like 20 years later on i watch dateline and i i don't know to cover up i know not to do that i said yeah fuck if i do that they're gonna find that and this and that and i'm really fucked so they're gonna catch me i'm not smart enough for this nope she saw it as oh i have to cover stuff up like those people on dateline which by the way the end of dateline is the person gets arrested and fucking sentenced it's never a successful dismount on dateline otherwise it

wouldn't be a dateline it would be an unsolved mystery it'd be a Dateline. It would be an unsolved mystery. It would be a different fucking show. It would be Robert Stack, bitch. Yeah, it would be a different show. Jesus Christ. So she said, but I had the gun right there. She left the gun laying right there in her room. She said, and there was no rationale to what I did. I left the gun right there. Then she says, there was no sneakiness to what I did.

It was like someone stepped into my life, committed this crime, then stepped out. Or. Or. You're a selfish asshole. One of the two. A heinous teenager killed her father without any forethought or afterthought. Yeah, because she's a fucking asshole. So it was like someone stepped into my life, committed this crime, then stepped out.

She says this now. Wow. Not then as an excuse. Now she says this. And we'll talk about it. Keep in mind all the things that when I say she says this now, they're all evil spirit, darkness gathering, all this horse shit, right? They're all evil spirit, darkness gathering, all this horse shit, right? So she lies to the cops, and eventually they bring her into the station,

and they talk to her because she's the only one that was there. So they know she did it, so they're trying to get her to admit it. Eventually she admits that she did it, and they say, why'd you do it? Oh, boy. Why'd you do it? Her reason for the cops, quote, he pissed me off. Unreal. He pissed me off unreal he pissed me off he said how many times you pissed off your kids you think fuck i hope a lot because they need it because they pissed me off plenty so we're fucking tied i hope anyway yeah so oh wow quite a few right so he pissed me off later on though she says you, and they took me into the interrogation room.

This is now, she says, they took me into the interrogation room. And, you know, that was my stupid teenage response. He pissed me off, even though he didn't piss me off because he didn't even do anything. We just had small talk. But I said, he pissed me off. And then that went into the record. They wrote that down. And that went into the court.

And that's been the label for my entire life now since then is he pissed me off just because I said it that one day. Yes, you said it on a fucking record on a murder confession. That's in stone at that point. It's on your gravestone, stupid. Wow. So she said, and I remember walking up behind him and shooting him. And I remember watching him fall. And I thought in

that moment i realized what i just did yeah i guess so um by the way on the way to her mother she stopped at harvest foods and took 150 out of his fucking bank account from the atm there so there's also that shoot that's more than gas money also, isn't it? It sure is. Yeah. Oh, back then? Oh, there's no way that truck holds $150,000 in gas. You don't need $150,000 to put a fucking half a tank in there. $1.19 a gallon back then? Yeah. Meanwhile, her father is found face down in a huge pool of blood in his fucking own home here.

What the fuck? Where did she think? What did she think was going to happen after that? I can't imagine. That's what I mean. An evil spirit took her over. Okay. She blames and her defense blames and her whole crux of everything is it was the Prozac.

Oh, yeah. That did it. Even though she exhibited the exact same behavior before and after Prozac. And we don't even know for sure that she was taking the Prozac. Right. But she blames Prozac. We're not sure. Maybe.

I don't know. She's probably taken one before. She said her behavior changed dramatically on the Prozac. She said they put me on Prozac. Now, they put her on Prozac in the unit there at some point in that six months. But she says two weeks after, because this is two weeks after she got out of the unit there. She said two weeks after, I shot my dad in a moment of rage. So she's like, it had to be the Prozac.

Positive effect. Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of people that do claim that Prozac causes a lot of irrational behavior when you're off of it. I tend to believe that medicine like that probably can it's a can yeah sure you can fuck with your brain chemical with your balance that's absolutely but you have to take fucking responsibility for your own actions you still know what murder is for sure that's the thing it's it's a still no it's not right there's a scale of yes you feel like this you feel like that you feel like that. You might have ideations to want to do that, but you can't fucking do it. Right.

You know what I mean? That's not. Valium has a side effect of suicidal tendencies. And if you are a suicidal person and you don't tell that doctor, you're probably about to feel that. And it's not good. You better hope you don't tell that doctor you're probably about to feel that and it's not it's no good you better hope you don't do it you fucked yeah so they try her they arrest her obviously and the big question is kiddie court or adult court yeah 16 yeah so the defense contended that she's not violent. Yeah. Even though there's a guy with two holes in him that would disagree. She is very capable of rehabilitation.

Therefore, the case should be transferred to juvenile court. OK, so the judge says he's going to rule on it later. Her mother, Gwen, Amy's mother, Gwen, testifies on her behalf, saying that Amy was best friends with her father. saying that Amy was best friends with her father, but because of truancy and behavioral problems, she had been admitted to the hospital, and she got Prozac, and she said, quote, her daughter was just not herself after her father's death.

She was hysterical and looked stargazy. She just shot her father. She better look weird. Yeah. Also, not only did she do that, if she's going to blame the Prozac for that, then she took off in the truck and then lied to mom to cover it up. At that point, it's not a Prozac thing. She didn't break down and go, oh, my God, I couldn't control myself. She tried to cover it up, and that's what I mean.

And later on, oh, man, I just hate that. All the evil spirit got a hold of me. It was just something in me. There was a darkness forming. There was a serpent. These are all things, by the way, that if you tell a certain audience they'll eat it up and and believe that shit and then do anything you you fucking and then we'll talk about that in a minute there's some places where those audiences thrive it's what i mean so like arkansas is one of them yeah

yeah so they tried to make an attempt to move with the The prosecutor may charge a juvenile. This is the law. Prosecutor may charge a juvenile in either the juvenile or criminal division of circuit court when a case involves a juvenile at least 16 years old who engages in conduct that, if committed by an adult, would be a felony. So then it's up to the prosecutor. And they said they must consider the following factors, seriousness of the alleged offense and whether the protection of society requires prosecution in the criminal division, whether the alleged offense was committed in an aggressive, violent, premeditated or willful manner. Sure. Check, check, check and check. I would say on that one, whether the offense was against a person or property with greater weight being given to offenses against person, especially if personal injury resulted. Check.

Culpability of the juvenile, including the level of planning and participation in the offense. Well, she's the only one, and she practiced. So check, check. She's the only target shot in the backyard. Fuck, just to make sure. The previous history of the juvenile, including whether the juvenile had been adjudicated a juvenile offender, and if so, whether the offenses were against personal property or any other

previous history of antisocial behavior or patterns of physical violence. She doesn't fall under that one, but that's fine. Sophistication or maturity of the juvenile as determined by the consideration of the juvenile's home environment, emotional attitude, pattern of living, or desire to be treated as an adult. If they're like living in their own apartment fucking and having a job at the mill when they're 16, they're a fucking adult is what they're saying there. Whether there are facilities or programs available to the judge of the juvenile division of the

circuit court that are likely to rehabilitate the juvenile before the expiration of the juvenile's 21st birthday. Whether the juvenile acted alone or was part of a group in the commission of the offense, written reports and other materials relating to the juvenile's mental, physical, educational, social history, and any other factors deemed relevant by a judge. So that's how they decide. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more.

Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2005, she pleads innocent. She pleads not guilty to the charges in adult court. Wow. Charge her as an adult here.

Then she decides to accept a plea deal in adult court. She pleads not guilty before any court, and then they decide it's in criminal court. She went, I'm going to go ahead and plead guilty now. Okay. So in court during the plea, they said she's crying on her mother's shoulder as she pleaded no contest to shooting her father they asked if she pleaded no contest to the murder and theft of property charges and she uttered a barely audible yes sir with her arms tightly wrapped around her mother is what the paper said. Her mom literally dodged two

bullets. Yeah, two. Holy shit. You know what I mean? If she had her there, this could have been her. Oh, probably would have been, I would imagine. I would assume it probably would have taken less time. She was pissed off at her mother all the time. She actually liked her dad when she did this. So, sentencing

comes around here. Since she pled, there's minimums and maximums and all that kind of shit. She gets you, young lady, may fuck off 60 years total. OK. 40 for the murder, which is the maximum. Gave her the maximum. And 20 on the theft, which is also the maximum. This judge did not like her at all.

Wasn't buying her bullshit. Not a bit of it. Not buying her fucking an evil spirit came over me or shit. So 2005, there's an appeal where the appeal is that she should have been tried in youth court. She's appealing all the way back to that. Okay. So they said, considering the factors in relation to the evidence presented in this case, we observe that capital murder is a most serious offense. An appellant does not argue otherwise.

Appellant also does not dispute that the crime was committed in an aggressive, violent, premeditated and willful manner. Check, check, check, check, check. It has been held that a juvenile may be tried as an adult based solely on the serious and violent nature of the offense. The offense committed in this case was against a person, resulted in death. Thus, this factor weighs against transfer to juvenile court. Additionally, there was evidence forcefully demonstrating that appellant planned the attack and that she was the only participant. She argues that history weighs in her favor, noting she had not been previously adjudicated

as a juvenile delinquent. She contends the evidence showed only her prior need for treatment for drugs and emotional instability, but not a history of antisocial behavior and incidences of physical violence. True. Carol Childs, who worked for the Saline Juvenile Court, testified that the services that Amy received did not appear to have worked. You think? There's a dead guy.

Yeah. Didn't take, let's just say certainly. Wow. We do. I don't think we needed her testimony. That's pretty pointless. Scott Tanner, who coordinates the ombudsman ombudsman division that monitors the Division of Youth Services, did not know of one female who had murdered her father and who had been successfully rehabilitated. I don't know. That seems like a weird stat. I don't know. Where do they keep that one? That's what I mean. I don't know about that stat. It seems anecdotal. But he said that he doesn't know of one. Like, I haven't heard of one. Well, let's check the records maybe. Let's see. He did testify that he could not assure the court that services would be able to rehabilitate her and uh there's that she also argues though

amy that consideration of her unstable home environment her parents got a divorce a year before and still got along get out of here get the fuck out of here which she had uh and history of emotional instability for which she had been prescribed Prozac way heavily in her favor. She also asserts that the trial court did not give proper attention to reports relating to her mental, physical, educational and emotional history. However, in its written findings, the court stated that there was minimal evidence offered in regard to the level of her sophistication and maturity and that it had thoroughly reviewed the reports and admitted its evidence. So they said, get fucked back to adult prison. and maturity and that it had thoroughly reviewed the reports and admitted into evidence so they said get fucked back to adult prison with you treat it like she treats her pants while on a dust late lace joint and just piss all over this piss all over that shit bullshit i'll piss on it

that was last week right piss on it i'll admit to murder shit fuck it piss. Piss on it. My life's fucked. Yeah. So, okay. She's in prison now. Uh-huh. All right. And she says later on, quote, I've grown up in here. You know, I came to prison when I was just 16, so I had a lot of obstacles in just that. Well, yeah, it's hard for a 16-year-old in adult prison. So, she, I guess there's a, she's in the newspaper a lot for things as far as, like,

programs and stuff. There's a college program. The state law requires inmates who do not have high school diplomas or GEDs to earn them while in prison. So access to higher education has been more difficult. So there's some kind of program. The Second Chance Pell Program gives inmates chances to do college because in the 90s basically we went through and said these guys are sitting around watching tv going to college fuck that take it all away and then they said okay and then the recidivism rate went through a fucking roof

because they had nothing to do when they were out and they went well that was stupid just to make just because it makes a good TV commercial for a fucking politician. I won't spend one red cent of your tax dollars making prisoners comfortable. Well, great. Good. Then they'll get out and stab me in the face. Appreciate it. I won't spend one red cent helping them make a better life for themselves when they get out so they don't stab your fucking children walking down the street with their lunch money it was the 1994 congress the congress who came in and said we're gonna fuck you'll hate us

god they're like they were like let's be assholes they put a ban on a congressional ban on students in federal and state prisons from being eligible for any grants so that was a law actually federal funds that do not have to be repaid are typically reserved for low-income families. Since then, inmates have relied on limited institutional scholarships or their own families to pay the bill or charity. And most of them don't fucking have it. No. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in there. So inmates who are now otherwise eligible for federal financial aid, including having high school diplomas or GEDs and who are eligible

for release, especially within the next five years, could get the grants now. So if you're life without, fuck yourself. But if you're going to get out, we have to do something with you. The federal government set aside $30 million for an experimental program. And using these funds won't take away from some poor kid who's not in prison. So they go through and they say the United States leads the obviously leads the world in incarceration. And by percentage, you know, they said Arkansas Department of Corrections, what their research shows. This is a shorter college president, Jerome Green. He says the research shows, Arkansas State Department of Corrections research, that for every year of college that a post-incarcerated person has, the recidivism rate goes down about 20 percent.

So that by the time if they reach a master's level, it's basically nobody with a master's degree goes back to jail type of thing. So that's what they're saying. Now, she's in jail and she does a dog program. She's in this dog training program. She and 13 other inmates are matched with dogs that will, quote, potentially change their lives or at least their lives in prison. So they come to their – these poor dogs have to be in jail. By the way, she's at the McPherson unit, the same place she toured with her scared straight group. Is that right? Absolutely.

at the McPherson unit, the same place she toured with her Scared Straight group. Absolutely. She explains, quote, it's kind of emotional because, like I said, it's been 18 years since I've been around an animal, and so it's almost like a reminder that I'm capable of loving again. It's like a breath of fresh air.

I have something that I can love and just love on. It's just very, very therapeutic. She loves it. She said that when COVID hit, it took a toll on a lot. But at that point, that's when the program came in. It was right after COVID. She said, I think the timing is perfect. You think about the year we just came through with COVID.

And we've been separated from our families. And we haven't been able to contact them like we did. So this was just the light at the end of the tunnel that things are getting back to normal and that there is better days ahead. Okay. 2019, there's a Facebook post. July 25th, 2019. And Amy Williams, it's from her,

Amy Williams, number 708690, by the way, quote, I was incarcerated at the age of 16. I'm currently 32 years old. I'm no longer that lost teenager whom I was before with an undeveloped ability to rationalize. I have spent the last 16 years in prison rehabilitating myself. One of my most recent achievements is in four months I will have a degree in theology. Oh, great. Oh, terrific.

Granted a second chance in society, I'm positive that I will be a successful contributor. I do not fall under the recent act that was passed for juveniles given life, life without parole sentences. However, the term of years I am currently serving greatly exceeds what now consists of life for juveniles. What about us? Oh, what about us? So you have to see the comments comments 95 comments of you're the greatest person in the world get the fuck out oh i'll just read a few amy is a very genuine person why she was incarcerated matters however why she did what she did matters too okay for no

fucking reason that's the point if her dad molested her i'd say great fuck that guy nothing happened point in case you can't always go by a person's criminal record. Two wrongs don't make a right. Okay? Here's another one. Free Amy Williams. She's a source of so much light in the darkest place. She's one of the people who has helped me out of my own darkness and deserves to have a chance at life out here.

No. She's very much into Jesus-y stuff, too, in there. Amy is a wonderful person. I feel since everyone else got out, she should, too should too who's everyone everyone who killed their father in 2003 what are we talking about she's the only one that killed that guy what are we talking about she was only a child when this happened free you amy oh boy um tia william i won't give the people's names she is an angel i know i spent a lot of time with Amy. She's a precious girl and deserves another chance. She has allowed a lot of freedom and given a lot of jobs, given only to the most trusted inmates.

Amy, I'm jumping up and down and acting, and I can't see the rest. My wife and I have been involved with prison ministries for over 20 years, and Amy is the most rehabilitative person we've ever known. rehabilitative person we've ever known. She needs to be released immediately so she can become the woman that we know she can become contributing to the rest of society. So there she was. She's in that one. 2022, Jimmy. Oh, boy.

The governor has given his notice of intent to commute the sentence of Amy Williams, who was convicted in Saline County in 2005. She has this whole big church network helping her write letters and all this shit. Commute it from a total of 72 or 720 months to serve the Arkansas Department

of Corrections to 278 months and three days, making her last out time October 3rd, 2026 oh that would be time done and completely done there's no law enforcement objections to the application um then she gets released because she's only got three years left now they parole her yeah she's released so she gets put out she's out on the street. This was in 2023. She got released. Just now.

Just now. She spent 19 years there. She says finding faith and getting a degree. She said she got out. She said, quote, that's been the hardest thing for me. People are always like, Amy, you're out of prison. How great is that? And it is.

It's a huge miracle. But there's a piece of my life I'll never get back because he's not out here. No, because you took him. Yeah. She's got a baby on the way right now. What? Oh, she's knocked up. Oh, yeah.

She's naming her baby Addie James after her father. How dare you kill your father, the name your kid after him. Act like, oh, dad would love that. Dad would fucking probably hope beat you to death with your own baby at this point. Because you're a dick. Oh my God, she's going to, what the fuck? She has the balls to say she knows her father would be excited. I'm sure he'd be excited if you didn't kill him.

If you didn't kill him. She's speaking to as many groups as possible, trying to really talk to the teens a lot. Don't kill him if you didn't kill him she's speaking to as many groups as possible trying to really talk to the teens a lot don't kill your dad don't kill your dad that's all you need to say and walk away didn't work for you right she said you're not really solving the problem until that place in them that's broken is dealt with so it's emotional because i want them to know it doesn't look like you're going to make it, but you can. So if you remember that there's nobody that's not worth saving. You didn't have anything broken. You were, you're just a fucking dickhead teenager.

During an interview I saw of her on the news, that was a fluff piece about, you know, kids that went in as teenagers and got let out now and are doing good things. She sits there and she talks about her fucking dad and shooting him and cries and she zero tears not one not a fucking hint of moisture in those fucking eyes not a hint not a hint maybe she's dehydrated today yes maybe she hasn't had anything to drink crying is two things either there's tears watery and you don't have to have tears streaming down your face watery eyes either there's tears or it's fake that's it there's no in between crying is a physical thing that comes with tears right that's it it comes with tears period it does

you can't cry without tears it's fucking impossible it's not physically fucking possible as your tear ducts have been removed so whenever you see that that means someone is a fucking sociopath too because they're going to pretend to cry in front of you now trying to get an emotion going for you to realize that they she's trying to sell that she's a human being and she's fucking not that's's what I mean. She goes on. I listen to her on this podcast. It's a religious podcast called The Bethel Podcast. And she's on episode, season two, episode 10. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

MyBethel.net. And it's Amy Williams' story of redemption is the name of the episode. No, there's no redemption. Hear the story of- I murdered a man and named my child after him murder man who had nothing oh just tried to help me here's a story of how amy williams uh of amy williams who went to prison for the murder of her father when she was just 16 years old her story is a testimony of the redemptive power of jesus she found her fucking audience and her audience is literally all that dark spirit shit something like someone popped into my life and left all of that is on that podcast because she's sitting

there and that audience is eating that shit up yeah they're eating it oh yeah the devil took her over and all that shit and meanwhile come on man we all know better than that so i'm i'm not one of these people that's like oh kids put them away forever and do all that shit but some people genuinely are remorseful some people genuinely i don't feel she has remorse for no she's found a way yeah in my opinion i don't know feels like she found a way to justify it and to and to wash it away and now she's going to try to start over and she may she may never she may never commit another crime no i bet she knows right she probably won't but that's just that she knows that the punishment is really fucking severe yeah i think she's that and i

think she's that scarily in control at this point and i think now she's really learned how to manipulate the press the church people other people the media all these fucking people she's learned how to manipulate prison people she's even more manipulative now she's imagine being her child yeah i'm just i'm fucking blown away by this honestly i this this one i i don't like she when people are scumbags they're unrepentant scumbags yeah fuck you unrepentant scumbag when people are honestly repentant and they really feel terrible they're remorseful you kind of have to feel bad for them because maybe they go, fuck, maybe they literally can't sleep at night. And sure, they don't deserve to be able to sleep at night.

But at the same time, as a human being, you feel for that. All she did the whole time was fucking blame other things. Blame drugs. Blame Prozac. She blamed fucking an evil spirit, a darkness gathering in the hallway, just a random spirit that entered her life and then left. All this bullshit other than I was a fucking asshole. The scenario in which the man was murdered, she went and got a gun. She got earmuffs.

She tried the gun in the backyard that day. Then she calls him down the hallway to turn around. What is she, fucking Sammy the Bol Gravano? This is fucking crazy. That's a hit, man. That's what I'm saying. So there you go, everybody. That is Brian Arkansas and one crazy-ass story.

One crazy-ass bitch. Keep an eye on your kids. That's all. Keep a left-hook look at it. And teenagers, don't kill your parents. No. There's always a better way. Run away if you have to, but don't kill your parents.

Look, if you're a teenager and you're upset with the way your life is going, don't kill your parents. No. There's always a better way. Run away if you have to, but don't kill your parents. Look, if you're a teenager and you're upset with the way your life is going, don't worry. You're almost done with them. It's almost over. School will be over before you know it. It all ends very quickly. Seems like it's a long time, but it's not. And then you'll be on your own, and it'll get so much worse. Everything will be fine.

For a long time, and then hopefully, maybe by the time you're like 38, you can scratch out a small piece of just some kind of little happiness once in a while. You get a joint on a Sunday. That's life. Yeah. That's life, everybody. You get a beer. Yep. That's that.

Everybody goes to bed and you have 28 minutes alone. And then you'll wake up late because you had a beer in that 28 minutes and your boss will give you shit in that 20 minutes you should listen to small town murder and then get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars and say something nice about us because it helps drive us up the charts it's super free you turkeys get on give a gobble gobble get on there and gobble gobble upbble. Get on there and gobble gobble up. That's what you do. Just put gobble gobble. Let's see how many gobble gobbles we can get because that's fucking hilarious to me.

So thanks for doing that. If you've done that already, get on there. If you haven't, please do that. Follow us on social media. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook. You can also head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. September 8th, Atlanta. September 9th.com. Get your tickets for live shows. September 8th, Atlanta. September 9th, Charlotte.

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bring you two new episodes. One Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder. And this week is no different. This week for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about Carl Malone. Yeah. How such a beloved guy, beloved by everybody too. People in Utah, everybody.

How did no one know he was impregnating a teenage girl and doing all that where did that how did that slip under the fucking radar why did his career exist that's let's talk yeah how does he not a in jail or be ostracized from the league i don't know but we'll talk about that and then two for small town murder we're going to talk about two of the craziest murder stories ever. Just two stories that I have found that I had to put aside that never fit into a box as far as couldn't get a whole episode out of them. Out of one because it's not enough or whatever. But the actual highlights of these two are so fucking bonkers. We're going to combine them into one crazy ass story and it's going to be fun.

So we'll combine those two murders. We'll not tell one story. We'll tell separate stories. But in one story, we'll merge them together. That'd be cool put the people we'll mix it oh he killed her now shit okay that'd be confusing so that's patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you do that if you want to follow us on social media very easy to do that as well you just get on shut up and give me murder.com links to it all right there. Come see us at live shows. Your stupid opinions is coming in September.

We finally have a date that we can announce next week and we're very fucking excited and it's going to be that date period. That's it. That'll be the release date. They're going to advertise for it and everything. So get in there and get excited about your stupid opinions. We are. So thank you so much for listening. Everybody do not kill your parents.

And if you do, don't blame an an evil spirit just say you were a fucking asshole take the responsibility they'll let you out eventually but don't kill your parents absolutely not so that said everybody until next week you turkeys it's been our pleasure bye Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

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