Small Town Murder - #417 - No Body, No Crime... Except For That Head - Hazelton, Idaho

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

This week, in Hazelton, Idaho, after a marital break up everything seems fine, with both parties, moving on, an progressing in their lives. But one person is absolutely holding a grudge, and a small thing sets them off. Next thing you know, theres blood on the walls, and someone is missing. The investigation quickly uncovers an awful, dastardly plot that includes a very unlikely helper, and left someone without a head!!Along the way, we find out that magic shows are always terrible, that you never know what horrible things someone is planning, and that where there's a will to remove a head, there's a way to remove a head!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Hazleton, Idaho, an unstable person flies into a murderous rage after hearing what they consider to be bad news and recruits a very unlikely accomplice in an absolutely brutal killing.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder. We promise you this is no exception. It is crazy stuff. Before we get started, just want to say we are going to have a Halloween virtual live show again this year.

Can't wait. Tickets go on sale September 1st. September 1. September 1. You can get those at shut up and give me murder.com slash virtual live september 1st get your tickets for the virtual live show it'll be halloween week you know it'll be available it'll be a great time those are so much fun everybody loves them and we're we love them too so we can't wait i look like an asshole oh it's gonna be good and your stupid opinions will be coming out publicly everywhere, anywhere that podcasts are available. Our new show, September the 18th.

So keep an eye out for that. We cannot wait and we'll be pumping it and get more excited as the time comes. But we're very excited for that. Otherwise, do head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. not only to get your tickets to the virtual live show, but also get your tickets to September the 8th in Atlanta, September the 9th in Charlotte, and December the 2nd in Dallas as well. Let's go. Because those are the ones that have tickets left.

Everything else, I think Philly might have like a couple. I don't even know if they're together. So if you want to go to Philly, do it right this minute. I'm not sure if there's any left there. So check that out. Everything else is sold out. Thank you for doing that. We've been having a great time seeing everybody on the road.

Good stuff here. Shut up and give me murder.com. If you want more show, we can do that for you, too. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material. Oh, there's so much. Anybody. Five dollars a month or above. That's a cup of coffee.

Yeah. One cup of coffee. You can get instead of a cup of coffee, an entire back catalog of a couple hundred bonus episodes to binge and new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. This week is no different. But we have for you this week for crime and sports, which you, of course, will get. We're going to talk about the history of celebrity boxing. Oh, God.

Celebrity and foxy boxing and all these weird things where people who aren't boxers get in a ring and box. It's been happening forever. Oh, it's so much fun. We're going to talk about what idiots decide to punch each other on television and how bad your career has to fall down before you decide to do that. We'll get a ladder going. And then for small town murder, we're going to have a very funny, weird episode. Trust me on this one. We are going to talk about victorian household dangers so dangers late 1800s mainly

bathroom explosions you it was very likely for you to die while exploding in your bathroom in the late 1800s so we're going to talk all about it the har everything had strychnine in it it's awesome we'll talk all about Victorian household dangers. That is patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that. And you get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy, you'll mispronounce your name. He wants to get it correct, but it just slips by him. He really wants to do that.

That said, I think it's time for the disclaimer here. This is a comedy show. We are comedians. There will be terrible murder and there's going to be jokes thing is they don't have to go at the same time there's nothing funny about and then the head was removed from the body well that's not funny what's funny is someone thinking if i take the head off the body then i'll get away with this that's kind of funny stupid thoughts like that or a bumbling police force that lets a murderer go for a decade or something like that

we make fun of all this stuff but what we don't do yeah but we go out of our way not to do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims families why is that that's because we're assholes yeah but we're not scumbags and that's how that works you have it that sounds good to you we have a lot of wild show for you here and got hundreds more for you to catch up on. If not, if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever go together, maybe we're not for you. Maybe this just isn't the kind of show you'll like. But if you do listen, you might like it. And if not, no complaining later because we warned you.

There you go. That said, I think it's time, everybody. It's time to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs, everyone, and arms to the sky. And let's all clear the lungs everyone in arms to the sky and let's all shout shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy let's go on a trip let's do it all right we are going all the way to idaho all right this week going up to Idaho. Here we go. We're going to Hazleton, Idaho. Where's that? Hazleton, southern Idaho.

In the Twin Falls region. Around there. So, yeah, southern. It's 25 minutes outside of Twin Falls. Okay. I don't know where Twin Falls is. It's down south. It's kind of over near Idaho Falls, right?

Is it east or west? Potato country. Potato country here. I think it's west because it's two hours and four minutes to Boise. So it would be over. About seven and a half hours to Moscow, Idaho, which was our last Idaho episode. Insane in the brain. You got to check that one out.

And this is in Jerome County, area code 208. And we'll give you the motto for Twin Falls since it's kind of a part of Twin Falls. And that's, quote, people serving people. Are they? What? Blowjobs. Serving, as I say, blowjobs, legal documents, hamburgers. What are we talking about?

What are we getting served with here? I'm worried. Only one of those three things. A hamburger is good too, I guess. You know what? Just serve me with whatever. If it's the one out of three times I'm getting sued, I'll take it. Whatever.

Fine. It's worth it for the hamburger and the blowjob, I suppose. That's a solid Sunday right there. This is not a bad Sunday. wilson uh butte cave near twin falls in 1959 that revealed evidence of human activity including arrowheads that rank among the oldest dated artifacts on the entire continent of north america okay so we found caves and some native americans used to live there shocker yes but it's the oldest artifacts that in north america yeah i think that's the deal here. The first permanent settlement in the area was a stage stop in 1864 at Rock Creek is where it was, which is near the present day towns. Rock Creek, everybody. We all know Rock Creek. Big trout the size of a agricultural operations here in the Snake River Canyon. But they don't have any way of really irrigating or then getting the stuff that they grow out of there because there's no infrastructure.

So they kind of. So it just dies on the vine? They pick it and they go, I don't know where to take it. You could come here and get it, I guess, if you want. They're like, there's no fucking roads. How am I supposed to get there? So that's what happened. And then they built a big irrigation canal system for the area in 1900.

So you had to eat it for 10 years, and then here it comes. 1974, Twin Falls became the center of the national eye when Evel Knievel attempted to jump the Snake River Canyon. That's where it is. On his motorcycle. I had a feeling. Watched by millions. This was a huge deal in 1974. Oh, my God.

This is what made him for everybody. This was the biggest deal. He had action figures after this. Didn't even do it. Couldn't even make it. But still, they tried. That's what's amazing. I've never seen anyone become a bigger star from failure than Evel Knievel.

He never pulls anything off. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen that man make it. No, that's the point. He tried, and he's still alive. That makes him a hero. I think it was his son that jumped Caesars, and I don't think he made it. I think he crashed, too.

That's the Knievel way. You just jump things and fall, and then everyone loves you. And then go to the hospital. Yep. There was high winds, and also his parachute deployed prematurely, which doesn't help either. And then go to the hospital. less than two miles west of Shoshone Falls, and it's still visible. So anybody out there wants to take a shot at it, you've still got it. There you go.

At least the foundation. Give it a look-see. Next up, reviews of this town. The first review I'm going to do is for Hazleton. The rest will be for Twin Falls because it's all kind of the same thing. Five stars for Hazleton. All right. Hazleton is a great little community to live in.

What else would you do there just to hang out in drink great place to look at uh it is definitely a farming community with many opportunities if you're interested in agriculture the schools in hazelton are very little and offer wonderful one-to-one time with teachers they offer also offer a wide variety of sports for children who are interested that's good they don't force the children who aren't interested in sports. Play football. I know. I like computers.

I said play football. Put this fucking helmet on and run into that fat kid. Go. It's a tiny school, but you also don't get interaction with the teacher? You do. It's a very little school, and they offer wonderful one-to-one time with teachers. Oh, I thought you said very little one-to-one. No, no. It's a very little school, and they offer wonderful one-to-one time with teachers. Oh, I thought you said very little one-to-one. No, no, it's a very little school.

Although job opportunities are limited to agricultural, there are many available. As long as you want to work on a farm. As long as you're good at farming. Everything from farms to farms. Farms to ranches, everything in there. Everything from growing to maintaining. That's it. Here's five stars.

The people in Twin Falls are so kind and willing to help you around the town it's a tight community who likes to help one another when things get rough how rough are things getting all the time we gotta keep helping each other what do you have like constant hurricane katrina's over there or what like what's going on sometimes it's a bad crop i guess so uh four stars twin falls is a a larger town for Idaho that has a pretty landscape and is great for people who love the outdoors. With having a cannon on the edge of town, there are many beautiful hikes to go on. A cannon? I think they mean canyon.

Probably a canyon, yeah. With there also being a river in the cannon. Wow, they just think it's called cannon. There's two more times they say canon in this they should have spent more one-on-one time with the teacher yeah i don't think they grew up in these small schools with all this one-on-one time it gives a beautiful look over the many waterfalls and places to go boating having its own bridge over the canon makes it it's has its advantages too with the per the Perrine Bridge being only man-made structure in the U.S. that you can base jump off of.

It is perfect for thrill seekers. I don't think that's an accurate statistic. You can base jump off anything. Can't you? Yeah, and what other bridge? I guess they're just saying that's the only one that you're allowed to do it, but fuck, there's bridges all over the place that are man-made that you can jump off of. There's no fucking nature bridges, not a lot of them i guess this one is like they're you're they're saying you're allowed to i'm encouraged go ahead jump off our bridges

go ahead two stars the people in this area are as bleak as the landscape here we go there we go that's my guy oh boy when you, boy. When you think of Idaho, you think of mountains and crisp, clean air, but southern Idaho is a barren range with only sagebrush as far as the eye can see. The people are undereducated and lack morality. Dumb and mean is what they just said. Dumb and loose.

Dumb, loose, and mean. Winters are too cold and summers are too hot. There are much nicer places to live. Okay, and finally. Dumb, loose, and mean. Winters are too cold and summers are too hot. There are much nicer places to live. Okay, and finally. Solid, succinct. Phew, man, they hate that place. One star. Hate the place and the people.

One star. Yeah, they hate the place because of the people, it seems like. Right, yeah. They could live with the sagebrush if the people weren't dicks. One star. Twin Falls is a terrible place to live. I moved here about three years ago. What the fuck?

And something is absolutely no help. I don't know what the fuck that means. If you are in an emergency. Oh, the TFP, Twin Falls Police Department, is absolutely no help if you're in an emergency. Jobs here pay very low. Neighborhoods are very dirty. Definitely a case with low-class people. Turkeys. All turkeys. Low-class turkeys they all are everyone we remember this oh who wrote this that lady jesus uh here people here are very rude and crime rate

is getting terrible i plan on moving back to my hometown in around eight months wanted to tell me where their hometown is jesus but not here apparently not idaho people in this town 951 in hazleton tiny place few more females and males median age is about normal more married people than normal it's 57 married which is a lot race in this town uh 37 white here uh 0.2 percent asian 0.0 percent black yeah 1.7 percent native american 53.9 percent hispanic wow and seven percent hawaiian pacific islander is that right which makes no i know in utah there's a lot of pacific islanders there's a big community there but i didn't know rural idaho had a big bleed over the border a bit. I guess so. And 54 percent Hispanic, I guess farming is the is the key to that.

But you don't think southern Idaho and you go, oh, yeah, all Mexican. Yeah. Right. It's not what you think at all. Six hours from fucking Canada. And it's all all Mexicans crammed between Salt Lake City and Canada. I picture nothing but Mexican people as far as the eye can see. Over half of the people.

It's a lot. It's weird, too, because they're fighting it out. Religion in this town, 62.6% religious, very religious. And you'd think Mormons are very high around this area. 22.6% Mormon it is, so that's very high. But then Catholics are even higher because it's all Mexican people. So it's 30.6% Mormon it is, so that's very high. But then Catholics are even higher because it's all Mexican people. So it's 30.6% Catholic. So they're going to have, this is like, you're going to have Irish holy wars going on here.

They're going to be killing each other in the street. That's too much. Now, the Catholics aren't much for recruiting, though. No, they just. Not in this country. Yeah. If you already have food, they're not going to try. You're doing fine. You're doing fine.

You're doing fine. 0.0% Jewish, though. It's like, we're going to stay out of this whole thing. In Jerome County, last election, 24.1% voted Democratic, 73.1% Republican, 2.7% Independent. They have a low, actually, rate here there are if you want to work on a farm there are plenty of jobs get a job yeah they're always hiring hell yeah problem is the median household income here is very low thirty one thousand seven hundred fifty dollars a year that is we'll give you a job but i didn't say you could feed your family yeah you're gonna

everyone's gonna even the kids are gonna need. That's the problem. That's like twenty five thousand dollars less than the national average. That's way low. And the cost of living here is also low. But the median home cost, if you make 30 grand, doesn't sound very good here. Median home costs three hundred thirty thousand eight hundred dollars. What? Yeah. If you're making 30 grand a year, I don't know how that works exactly. Yeah, that math ain't mathin'. That's crazy. No. And from what I found, though, I think that's because a lot of the properties are large acreage properties. Sure, you got some room.

That drag the median home price up as far as the home worth is caught because there's a big property that'll be worth a million dollars. But the houses that are for sale are not that expensive because they're, well, we'll talk about them. Here we go. As a matter of fact, if we've convinced you, damn it, potato country is for you. We have for you the Hazleton, Idaho real estate report. All right. Your average two bedroom rental here, 16, or I rental here, $1,060. Okay. That's well below, a couple hundred below the national average. Here's the first house, and I'm going to show you a picture of it, only because it's indescribable otherwise.

It is a 4,740 square foot studio, quote unquote. One room? Meaning there's one room. I don't even know what the fuck to call it. Well, I'll just show it to you because that's the only way to do it. Check this out, Jimmy. Oh my God. It's a big falling down house. It's the house that Jenny was molested in.

It's the house that Jenny was molested in and then the house that the Texas Chainsawaw massacre family took her to afterwards that's what that's who lives there's even been rocks through the windows all the windows are broken it hasn't been painted since what 1920 since yeah first since the kaiser went down in the first world war was the last time this fucking thing was painted i think it's insane it's there's like a tub thing outside with a faucet. This house looks like, want to live in 1868? Come on over. It's crazy, this house. It looks like it belongs in a museum. It does.

Can you believe it's still standing? It looks like a strong wind will take this thing to the ground. Ripley's Believe It or Not. $140,000 for that. How much land? I think it's like three acres. It's got to be. I think that's what it is, like 3.3, if I remember correctly.

That's not so bad. Obviously, you light that on fire. Oh, you got to knock that. You don't even have to knock it to the ground. Just go, kids, go kick the house down, would you? And just boom, boom. Yeah, just let the kids kick it down. They'll have fun.

Make it like a pinata. Put candy in it. Whoever knocks down a wall first get some mini snickers okay uh two bedroom one bath 984 square feet it's a small little house yeah um it has been completely hgtv'd oh as far as it's nice grays and whites and yeah untreated wood around everything's decorative trim and all that kind of thing. It's that sort of house. 900 square feet?

That's an afternoon. You can do that one easy. That's what I mean. Tiny place, and it's not even on an acre. It's a small plot of land. $254,000 for that. You're out of your fucking mind. A little pricey.

A little pricey. To live in what? To live in just a tiny house that's it next up three bedroom two bath 1389 square feet so kind of yeah intro to intro family house here it looks it's just your basic kind of raised ranch sitting in the middle of something nothing special about it whatsoever nothing exciting about it 280 000 bucks for it though not a big lot of land it's expensive up there man i don't understand how i mean a shack that's gonna fall down if the kid kicks it is 140 grand so i don't know what's going on

up there that's wild things to do here in this town what do we do once we're here we go to the twin falls county fair okay yeah yeah which is strange because twin falls isn't the county it's in this town. Tell me. What do we do once we're here? We go to the Twin Falls County Fair. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is strange because Twin Falls isn't the county. It's Jerome County. Right. So it makes very little sense why it would be called the Twin Falls County Fair when it should be a town.

What's going on? I don't know. I'm a little confused, but that's okay. Let's go through some stuff on the schedule here. First of all, I've got to sign up early, 8 a.m., on the first day for the mutton busting. Got to sign up early for that. I was going to guess mutton busting.

God damn it. You got to have mutton busting there, obviously. Right away. Also, the junior rodeo entries open up at that time, too. So you got to sign up early or you're going to get a bad slot. That's not good. Then they have what they call Cowboys and Angels, which I believe are... Guys and gals. Guys and gals guys and gals i don't know what

dance what is this no this is riding horses oh so i guess the ladies who ride horses are angels not cow what if i want to be an angel do i have to cut this thing off you do i'm sorry otherwise no angel for you we can get you some rings though you look You look very pretty. Also, the Lucky Charms. I don't know what that is. Some sort of riding group, I believe. Okay. Next up, they got the Foothill Lads and Lasses. Children? Are they dancing?

I don't think so. This is all horse stuff, by the way. It's a lot of horse stuff. Yeah. Then there's the Freckle farms petting zoo which sounds gross i don't know why freckle freckle farm sounds weird a lot of gingers that you rub it's yeah come on pet the gingers everybody come up look at him look at him there look at him no can't have him in the sun too long now so you better get your pets in we got to put them away quick

while you're doing all this by the way you'll you'll be treated to Jeff Martin and his strolling magic. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. I do an up close walking magic. There's nothing that is worse than having a stranger walk up to you unexpected and start doing magic at you. At you is what they're doing and not for you. For you is something you want. That's for you.

I did this for you. At me is I didn't ask for this and you still won't stop and that's every fucking walking magic show and now you put my watch inside that locked box and where's the key what's happening why do people watch back please can i my wife gave it to me and then she died of cancer so i'd like to really have it back please i love when david blaine belongs to my grandfather and puts your watch inside a locked jewelry store it's not even open i can't go get that you son of a bitch jesus christ still whoever plans events stop booking strolling magic people no one's amused by that there everyone spends the whole time trying to avoid that guy.

There he is with a deck of cards in his hand. Leave me alone. Every time I'm an asshole. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. Then Jeff Martin's going to do his first magic show after he's done strolling. Then after he's done, he's going to do a 45-minute set, by the way. Oh, boy.

Tight 45. Then danger magic comes on. Oh? Danger magic with a K. Oh, magic. You know it's dangerous because it's with a K. Danger Magic. Is that going to be like the amazing Jonathan where he runs a fucking kitchen knife through his arm?

Let's hope so. Sprays blood all over the place. And let's hope he's not very good at it. Let's just say that. Let's hope he put the wrong arm in whoops um then kale moon will play a show oh there's your country boy oh yeah kale with a c not the oh god kale with a c kale moon over here uh then the commissioner's pie contest oh we're all gonna judge pies after that. Oh, we're not eating? Okay.

No, we're going to have Kale Moon, then we're going to have pie, and then Jeff Martin's going to come on and do more magic. He's got a second show lined up here, so it's a busy day for him. It's all entertainment today. Then he's going to go fucking peruse for some snatch afterwards. That's what he does. He goes, oh, all the ladies love my magic show. And he goes through the crowd, and then nobody likes him.

I'm going to make my penis disappear. Come on. What do you think, sweetheart? 11 o'clock is the antique tractor pull at 11 a.m. Antique one. Be careful. Don't put too much weight on it. Shit, it broke again.

Fuck. That's just a bunch of people fixing tractors all day. It's only rated for 5,000. Be careful. Be careful. The chocolate extravaganza contest is after that. Okay. I don't know if that's chocolate. contractors all day it's only rated for five thousand be careful be careful the chocolate extravaganza contest is after that okay i don't know if that's chocolate making or chocolate eating i'm not sure but bring chocolate bring your own chocolate then the monster truck insanity

tour will be here oh god it's insane it's insane monster truck insanity Tour followed by the ABGA Registered Goat Show. You can't beat this. Bring a tent, stay here all weekend is all I'm going to say, man. Do you want to enter some fudge next year that we use THC butter in? Yes, I'd like to get half of Idaho stoned. Yes, because it's not legal at all there.

That'll be perfect. That'll be a lot of fun. There's a commercial boar goat show boar goat i don't know what that is oh that's a crossbreed james that's a it sounds dangerous that's something you want to watch i don't want milk from that thing a model railroad display next event the chicks and chaps event chicks all Chaps. So I don't know if that's chickens and something or if that is like women wearing leather pants. I'm not sure.

I'm hoping it's women with assless pants on. That sounds much better. That sounds wonderful. I don't want to see a rooster's ass. Yeah. Then finally, closing it all out, Michael Mesmer. You know what he does, Jimmy?

He's a country artist. No, he is not. Michael Mesmer is America's award-winning comedic hypnotist. I would rather smash my balls in a car door repeatedly than watch a fucking comedic hypnotist. Yeah. I worked with one of those guys one time and he was terrible and everyone was making fun of him including me and it was the greatest fuck because he sucked he didn't do anything um garbage so also the lost in lava cowboy gathering is a separate event lost in lava

lost in not just n lost n in Lava Cowboy Gathering. An annual celebration of the ranching and rural west. Through poetry, music, and stories, ranch people express the beauty and challenges of a life deeply connected to the earth and its bounty. Most ranchers I know are big into poetry. I'm telling you, cowboy poetry is so popular. I know. I'm seeing this uh also performing there dave stamey cowboys and indians magazine which is a thing that exists cowboys and indians magazine called him the charlie russell of western music i don't know what i don't know and western horseman magazine declared his vaquero song to be one of the greatest Westerns of all time.

Wow, Western Horseman, huh? He's been a cowboy, a mule packer, a dude wrangler, which sounds like a guy who gets chicks for ladies of the night. Yeah, it sounds like a pimp. And is now one of the most popular Western entertainers today. There he is. Now, crime rate, what we're interested in here, is pretty low, actually. Property crime is about one quarter under the national average really low and then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime is about one-third

less under the national average so it's safe in this town let's say but it wasn't safe for everybody no as we'll find out here i really want to see some of these terrible acts for some reason. I want to see the I want to I want to heckle the comedic hypnotist so bad. I love that a guy is touting his right up in Western Horseman Western Cowboys and Indians magazine. My grandfather was written up in Western Horseman for Christ's sake. That's fucking awesome. Well, he's been voted six-time entertainer of the year, six-time male performer of the year,

and five-time songwriter of the year by the Western Music Association. Oh, I wanted to be Western Horseman. I don't know what that is. That's what I was looking for. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. or on Apple Podcasts. He said that he finds that he prefers, he, quote, he prefers performing to, quote, being stomped by angry horses. What the fuck are you talking about? Because otherwise, that's my only choice in the world. I'm a cowboy, see?

I either perform or I let these horses stomp on me. It's either I sing you a song from the bottom of this here cracked heart, either that or I let a bunch of horses stomp my me it's either i'll sing you a song from the bottom of this here cracked heart either that or i let a bunch of horses stomp my face to death those are my only options i'm picking a song for you that said let's talk about some murder what do you say jimmy let's get on with that murder time all right let's let's do it. Western Horseman. Western Horseman magazine. It's my goal to be written up. I want this show to be talked about in Cowboys and Indians Monthly.

That's all I want. That's my only goal from now on. I don't care about anything else, any other accolades we can get, live shows, selling out, all this stuff. That's all great. What's up with Cowboys and Indians Monthly? That's where I want to be.

And Western Horseman, if you want to write write it up we would be legacy write-ups because my relative was written up there i assure you none of my relatives have been in western horseman if there was like eastern barber shop then yes they that's what eastern pizza place it's a different magazine but not western horseman now let's do this let's talk about a murder let's talk about a guy first of all here let's start out with a man his name is milo ross milo like milo ross regular spelling so letters gets his name done done and done wow that's amazing that's three less than my last name you asshole asshole. Lucky son of a bitch. Yeah. He's a Mormon, Milo.

Everybody calls him very, I've heard this from several people, said, quote, he's just a big, tall, good-looking dude. Oh. Everybody called him that. He's a big, tall, strapping cat. And he is a big, tall, handsome guy. Yeah. Good for you, Milo. Westerny looking, you know. Looks like a big head, big, strong-looking head. All looking you know looks like a big got like a

big head big strong looking head all right it's like a young powers booth is what he looks like the guy from fucking deadwood there yeah who runs the bella union yeah it's what he's that's what he's doing so he um he's a big tall good looking In 1961, he's about 20 years old, and he gets married. Okay. So he gets married to a woman named Vicky. And they end up, they're together for 19 years here, it looks like. I don't know that they had any children, though, in this 19 years. And by 1980, they get divorced. They're all wrapped up by 1980.

So, yeah, they were married for a while. Vicki ends up going on to get married to another man and I believe have children as well. Good for you. Yeah, Vicki ends up with another life and so does he. Right away, he meets people. One thing about Milo, when something's over, something else, he'll start it right up. Listen, one door closes, James. He is jumping out a window

put it that way door closed right through the glass through the through the plate glass so uh yeah he's always meeting someone right away and no difference here he meets a woman pretty much right away after they get divorced some of the relationships might overlap a little bit here he introduced or he's introduced to a woman named sandra jonas okay j-o-n-a-s jonas like the brothers yeah so they're introduced by uh he works for a trial like a construction and trucking company yeah called i believe circle a is the name of it and he ends up this woman that he that works as a dispatcher is leaving so this woman who is his dispatcher says i know a lady who'd be good for this job you give her the job and milo said sure looking for somebody else so they bring in sandra sandra comes in and uh you know she takes the job as a dispatcher and then they get together milo's her boss and they start hooking up a little

bit here so in 1980 that was considered the way you meet your spouse whereas now it's considered a crime you'll meet him at work yeah now it's considered a crime back then it was like whoever's around you because if it's not a crime it's certainly an hr fucking nightmare yeah well i mean now you have other options that's why back then you didn't know anybody else there's no fucking internet yeah and you whoever's around you is who you meet you're literally spending 40 hours a week minimum here yeah yeah you don't have time to meet anybody else and if you do you're going to have one night stands in fucking bars where yeah that's the chances of having something awful happen are way too high

at least you might have something in common with someone you work with here obviously so one thing right out of the gate we both work here now you spend 40 hours a week at work and 27 of those hours on your phone so you couldn't even meet anybody at work anyway so it's a moot point now but back then that's how people met people and people. And they start getting along right away. Sandra is a little bit younger than him. She's born in 1954. So he was already married when she was seven. Yeah.

So there was that. But now Milo is Mormon, grew up Mormon. And as he's an adult, he kind of goes in and out of Mormonism. You know what i mean he likes to drink and hang out too that's the thing so that kind of doesn't really go with that so they tend to frown on it yeah he tends to do one or the other either he's in a mormon phase or he's in a party and drinking phase one of those you mormon right now well right now i like fishing you mormon right now yeah let me get a double scotch and soda. Does that answer your question? Exactly. Maybe tomorrow.

Maybe tomorrow. You never know. It is Sunday. So now Sandra, though, left the church. She was also a Mormon, but left the church when she became an adult. Didn't want anything else to do with it. She was in the army for a few years, actually. And this is when she gets out of the army, moves up here, and that's when they meet and, you know, are introduced and she works for him.

Light that fire. So this is like late 1980 that she gets the job there as the dispatcher and they start hanging out. May 1st, 1981, they get married. What? It is fast. Milo moves fast with this marriage shit. fast milo moves fast with this marriage shit he from what i understand and what comes out later when he's in mormon phases he doesn't believe in premarital sex yeah so what he does is meets a woman and then immediately proposes to them so they can have sex in the next couple of months

rather than you know wait a while which is you know we get to the courthouse as soon as possible because i have been rock hard for months but yes six months they've is you know we get to the courthouse as soon as possible because i have been rock hard for months but yes six months they've known each other we have to get married because otherwise this i'm gonna explode i my balls are gonna they're gonna burst i'm about to burst that's right so they get married in elko nevada where everybody's dream wedding is doesn't everybody picture that right everybody out there picturing your dream wedding don't you picture it in elko nevada i mean if they are coming from idaho if they're getting married in elko just go to vegas it's right there jesus christ could not

wait you pull up the 74 vega with a dirt cloud behind you and you go ah beautiful elko we're finally here ah yes he really was about to bust he could not wait to be he's like here it is we'll just stop an elko man it's cool so they get married and um once they do they have two kids yeah we'll talk about and sandra is in charge of the house. Yeah. Period. She works doing stuff, but the law, she is the law at the house. That's sure.

And part of her, uh, law in the house is she now isn't just not Mormon anymore. She now hates religion. Oh, hates it. Wow. Like talks mad shit about it.

And whenever it comes up, it'll be a 20 minute tirade about religion so they know like don't even bring it up around the house because mom's gonna flip her shit and go nuts it's yeah it's one of those i like that yeah she's just got a i like anyone who freaks out about anything so it's pretty fun so she hates this she hates mormonism because that's the only religion she is talking about that's the only one part of yeah the only one she knows about so she's saying she hates the part of, yeah. The only one she knows about. So she's saying she hates the Mormon church and hates them and hates them and hates them. So they have two kids, Paul and Andra.

Andra, A-N-D-R-A. I've heard it pronounced Andra and Andrae. I don't know. Literally by two different people in a conversation with each other have pronounced it differently. And no one corrected the other one. So I don't think they know either. It's weird. So Paul is the older one and Andra is a couple years younger.

Yeah. Two years apart, I think they are. So now around eight or nine, Paul became interested in Mormonism because he knew that his family was you know like culturally mormon you know at that time they were as mormon as i am catholic whereas you know our family once went to church 40 years ago yeah so i guess i'm catholic like one of those i think that's how they did it with mormonism here and her the mother freaked out i guess he was going to like friends houses and they were mormon too and so he went to church with a friend and then he was going to, like, friends' houses, and they were Mormon, too. And so he went to church with a friend, and then he was like, oh, I like that.

That was fun. And they had, like, kid shit for him to do, and he thought that was cool. That's the thing about churches. They aim at the children to make them have a great time. And if they're having a good time. Yeah, it's the same thing as tobacco companies back in the day. You got to get them young. You hook them young.

Because once they're an adult, smoking or religion start to sound like less good ideas the older you get yeah if you didn't know anything about them yeah if you're 48 and someone hands you a cigarette you go fuck what that's weird yeah if you're 48 and someone goes let me tell you a story okay now check it out see what you see before you none of it's what it really appears to be actually they'd go huh if they'd never heard anything about it before but i mean if you grow up in it then you can whatever so he um his mother didn't like it paul said of his mother about religion quote it was all witchery to her oh even mormonism was witchery anything was witchery yeah so she like believed in god and that sort of thing but didn't like the religions themselves because she thought they were all witchery. She said, quote, it was he said it was made up to try to make people feel good about the terribleness and the awkwardness of life is what Paul said.

That's what she said. That's what mom said. So that's that's her opinion on it. And she tells him that. And as a kid who's in a religion, he's like, oh, well, I kind of thought it was cool. But okay, I guess not. I like coloring. Yeah.

So Milo, though, he supports his son in doing this if he wants to be religious. But mom freaked out and Milo stopped going to church when he was eight or nine. But then once he's 12 or 13, he gets back into it again. And now he's got 13. You start to get a brain of your own a little bit and he wants to go and milo supported him so milo and paul would sneak off to church together they had to sneak church they'd hide it they'd that creep off isn't that wild who's ever heard of that before sneaking church sneak salvation don't tell mom it's fucking hilarious

so they're sneaking off to churches and that was like that caused huge fights because obviously sander's gonna find out yeah no we're just gonna go to mcdonald's dressed in our best clothes that's all yeah we're just going down fishing that is the thing about about parenting too is that if if you fundamentally have different opinions about anything it's very difficult to to find common ground for the child one if one person's very passionate the other person has to either agree or not give a shit at all those are the two things yeah milo actually disagrees so it's not working or you find a way to like be to get yourself a pass on something in the future yeah that's another option so this was one of the first big blow-ups that

milo and sandra are going to have as a couple and uh yeah hiding church now 1990 comes around by the way during all this uh milo's first wife vicky who you know they got divorced 10 years ago has a catastrophic house fire is what the quote unquote what the fireman called it kind of meaning completely everything's gone just a pile of ashes people died in the house oh she lost people vicky was the only survivor of the fire which was horrible she crawled out of a ash heap and fucking you know burnt up and shit so tragic okay just keep that in the back of your head so 1993 comes around and milo decides that he's going to file for divorce from sandra enough yeah he's had about enough of this shit and they they're fighting a lot. We're just too different. Well, it's not just that.

There's other stuff here because what happens is they used to like to drink together a lot. But then when Milo gets back into the church, he stops drinking, but she doesn't. So when two people drink a lot together, they tend to get along. Or they might fight when they're drunk, but they tend to get along better. When one stops drinking, then the relationship is at an impasse now you can't have that it it is so fascinating how fast your significant other becomes annoying when they're drunk and you're sober and you're both drunk together you're like it doesn't seem annoying to me you're having fun yeah but then when you're sober and you see you're like oh my god now i see what everybody's talking about

yeah and especially if you're like all into going to church and all that you're like, oh, my God, now I see what everybody's talking about. Yeah. And especially if you're, like, all into going to church and all that, and you're, like, anti-alcohol. You're not just like, I'm going to stop at three. You're not having any. And she's having a bottle. She's having all of them. It's a lot. Yeah, she said that, or I'm sorry, he said, Milo said that in November of 1993,

Sandra came home shit-faced drunk, threatened the children. Oh, Sandra. Like physically, and then beat him on the chest too. Like just fucking lost it. Came in the house and lost it on everybody. She's being a dick. That's when he files for divorce, yeah. So that's what it is.

He's not drinking and he's going back to church. And she starts drinking more because now she's upset because now they're having marital problems, too. So she's yeah, she's I'm drinking for two. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Are you with child? No, no, no. My husband stopped drinking. So would you like one, honey?

No, I'll drink his job while I already poured it. See, that's it to have it. Once you got to drink, you can't put it back. You can't put it back. A psychiatrist later will say that Jonas struggles with, this is Sandra, interpersonal relationships, drinks excessively, does not trust law enforcement or others easily, has an unhealthy inability to let go of her father's death, often carries a weapon, has been known to shoot neighbors' animals, and has made threats to people of physical bodily harm. She scares the shit out of me. She's terrifying. And she's been in the army.

She knows how to use this gun. She's scary. She's a scary woman. She has daddy issues, and she's capable. That's so scary. Yeah. And drunk and armed. She kills neighborhood pets all the time, apparently. This is like a normal thing for her.

Not to come in her yard. Daddy, she's uncapable. Oh, boy. She goes out looking for pets, apparently. She's mad. Literally, like, that's what happens. So she has a history of threatening to kill people close to her, Sandra, including her mother. Okay.

You know, obviously, we all threaten to kill our moms, don't we? Her son, which is very normal. Her ex-husband as well. Okay. You know, obviously, we all threaten to kill our moms, don't we? Her son, which is very normal. Her ex-husband as well. Oh. I mean, think about that. We still think about him. We've got kids. And his ex-husband's former wife as well.

So the wife before her. The wife before her. Husband got married, got divorced, married her. They got divorced. She still hates his wife before that. Wow. It's like twice removed by that point. Couldn't have anything less to do with her life at the moment.

There are two divorces between her and that woman. Like his and theirs. They had two pregnancies for Christ's sake. Yeah, it's all sorts of fun. Two divorces and several marriages in between her and that woman. Still threatens to kill her. Wow. Not just as mad at her, wants her dead.

She's very angry, and she lets things fester a lot. She'll sit, and with something, if something happens and she's mad about it, she'll sit there and fester about it for a while, and then it will just be like, well, got to do something about that. I have to kill everybody. What the hell is that? And she'll rage and scream. I don't know what's up with her.

I think alcohol is a lot of the problem. She's definitely. I mean, it's exacerbating the issue, but she's leaning on it to make herself feel better, meanwhile making the issues worse. What the fuck is the root, though? At this point, it doesn't matter, because when you're drinking that much, the root's really irrelevant, because you're. It's too deep now.

It's too deep. That's what I mean. The root's irrelevant. It's just covered. It's too deep that's what i mean the roots are relevant it's just covered it's all covered up it doesn't matter we gotta take layers off before you can even get to the root it's also broken the clay sewer pipe and it's chasing the pipe too so now you're never gonna catch it it is a fucking mess so they other people who knew her describe her as being a quote very mean individual she's known as ornery which is how you describe like a bull yeah a mean individual sums up all of this she's a very mean individual her ex-husband also describes her as a very violent person okay um is that her ex-husband said that sandra threatened his life on more than one occasion, often killed their pets when she got mad, and would wander onto properties to kill other pets and then bury them in her pet cemetery across the street.

She made a pet cemetery where she kills her own pets and other people's pets that she finds and then buries them in the cemetery. This is something she does for control. This is a weird control thing. If she's a man, though, this is terrifying. Oh, boy, oh, boy. If she's a man, there'd be 12 bodies in her wake already. This is disturbing shit. I mean, this is like Gacy type shit.

She'd be a long-haul trucker and there'd be bodies across this country wow so oh man burying them in a pet so what kind of control thing is that though she gets mad wants to kill somebody and instead goes out kills an animal buries it in her pet cemetery and then she controls it because it's in her cemetery and then what like every time you see that person you just point out in your yard like that angry monkey from uh family and he comes out of the closet i don't know no this isn't when she's mad she doesn't kill that person's pet oh she gets mad and just kills an animal because she's mad any animal yeah her animals other people's animals and then buries them because she could just kill them yeah and

leave them there but then she buries them which is like a control thing too now you're mine okay i've killed you now that i can look out there and see yeah you know she could be at the person on the left of her house and go over to the person on the right kill their animal yeah put it in the put in the pet cemetery yeah be like there and then the point at the guy on the other side again just in her own mind then she's like okay did that what now now that'll show you i mean i don't know that's her way of not killing people she is so dangerous that's a dangerous person someone who especially someone who kills animals like that but then also made a fucking cemetery for them on top of that makes it even more dangerous like i'm gonna do this all

the time i really gotta right i gotta i gotta flatten some land out and, you know, make sure the grass is mowed over here. Yeah, I got to grade it up nice. This is wild. Then you need a spreadsheet so that you don't break ground on a fucking dog's carcass. That's, hey, who knows what's out there. Oh, my God. She also has a prior criminal record, Sandra, as well. Of course she does.

Yeah, because you can't do all that and not run afoul of the cops at some point. She has convictions, not just arrests, convictions for misdemeanor injury to a child. That's not good. Driving under the influence with a firearm in the vehicle. Can't do that. Can't do either of those things together. That's not great. And then interfering with an arrest as well because she got mad at some cop for doing something else.

Let him go. That's what happened. So it's a lot. She also, the interfering with the arrest was she admitted that she ends up being charged with damaging a police officer's patrol car after she kicked the radio. Yeah. She tried to kick the radio out of the patrol car because she didn't want to hear it. So don't talk about my warrants. Kick, kick, kick.

She is a party right now. Oh, boy. Wow. Holy crap. 20 years ago, I would be begging for her phone number. Oh, yeah. No, she sounds like a yeah and then you'd be in therapy still talking about her yeah and how she killed your dog this

is the kind of chick i chased this woman is a problem yeah that's i was never i know always sanity is very fucking sexy to me it really is it always has been to me at one point i've always no boy do i love it now my family's all fucking crazy women and i said no no no going the opposite way like to have a conversation when i need a a very calm non-ethnic woman thank you no italian women i've never even gone out with an italian woman for that very reason just nope i've been there before no offense italian women love you all like sisters and that's how i like to keep you sisters and aunts because we'll kill each other that's the problem i don't want to scream my order at you we're all screaming and it's too much screaming it's just it gets too loud so it doesn't work yeah i know these things but yeah this is the type of woman who would a lot of young men would be attracted to.

And I'm saying that half tongue-in-cheek because if someone's, like, exciting, I would have been into them, too, as a young person. It's the excitement of, whoa, they're nuts. Cool. Right. I bet they fuck like a wild person. Right. That's the old trope, the old joke. But it's true.

The lifestyle is exciting from wake up to go to bed no matter what it is it's when i say exciting that's not always positive yeah it doesn't always mean good it really doesn't evil knievel's jump was probably exciting you know what i mean every time he jumped super exciting super exciting but terrible for his body you know he's broken in every way possible, man. Yeah. So it's a lot. She's got a lot going on here. In court documents filed by an attorney representing her, she said she wanted a divorce on the grounds that Milo had been physically and mentally abusive during the marriage. So that's what she says.

Yeah, she says it's him. The kids have a different. The kids say it's her. But she says it's him. But she have a different. The kids say it's her, but she says it's him. But she's also threatened to kill the kids. Right. It's kind of tough. Maybe the kids might be on dad's side, even if it's not correct.

Dad might have knocked her around. We don't know. She's drunk with a pistolero. Yeah, in her car, for Christ's sake. What's that, officer? I got two guns, one for each of you. Drop kick the radio fuck me so may of 1994 the divorce case is dismissed oh this is a marriage that can be saved obviously jimmy if anything could be said

it's dismissed because of lack of timely action from the involved party so they filed but then they didn't follow up so the couple told it's told their attorneys because basically they got a notice that if they don't do anything that's going. So the couple told their attorneys, because basically they got a notice that if they don't do anything, that it's going to expire. And they told their attorneys to allow the divorce to be dismissed as they plan to attempt to stay together.

Wow. They're going to try to stay together. They're going to make this work, Jimmy. They're going to make it work, everyone. It's happening. Do you want to make it work with the chick who threatens to kill your children and has a pet cemetery across the street? I'm not making it work with the chick who threatens to kill your children and has a pet

cemetery across the street i'm not making it work with that woman james the the alternative is is being hated for the rest of your life and worrying fighting with her for the either way you're fighting with her for the rest of your life yeah because you have kids together you're gonna see this woman all the time the second the sperm penetrated that egg you were in for a lifetime of trouble trouble you were in a lot of trouble with this with this lady sounds like the first guy sidestepped all that and uh doesn't have to deal with it although they i don't know because he threatened she threatened to kill him she threatened to kill his ex-wife right so i think if you're ever in her orbit you better

watch out it's it's rough so but maybe i don't know maybe that's just threats once they're not together you shouldn't do anything yeah so andrew ross here this the daughter we'll talk about her yeah she's 17 years old at this point here in the in the late 90s and uh her mother is always one friend said her mother called her she called the mother the dark specter hanging over andrew's life all the time that's what all like a bunch of her friends said she's like a dark cloud hanging over yeah she's like something hanging off her neck an albatross a specter like all these terrible words that you don't you definitely if you're a mother you don't want to be called yeah to your children um they said sandra always wore mirrored sunglasses like cop sunglasses exaggerated highway patrol sunglasses and you

know would do all of that uh they said that her father was a good father who did his best for the kids but they the friends said you had to do it like around sandra because sandra was an opposing force to everything he did anything nice he could say i was taking the kids for ice cream and she would have some shit fit to throw about it and get angry so the friends were a little bit leery um they said that sandra tried to quote this is funny um my they said that they tried to be both a mother and a daughter um is what uh what andrew was trying to be because she kind of had to mother her mother because her mother was a mess and be the daughter at the same time and they said that Sandra tried to be a mother

and a daughter at the same time too she tried to be in charge of everything but then she kind of had a weird father figure thing with Milo as well something happened with her dad her dad died when she was younger and now she likes an older guy who's she treats like a father so it's a father who she's very angry at i assume for dying and can yell yell at him to his face

yeah not that we're neither of us are psychiatrists but i mean i think that's pretty simple you know not that either of us have the most fucking uh brady bunch leave it to beaver relationship with our dad that's the other thing so but this is kind of a you know put a quarter in the machine turn it and a bubble gum comes out with this fucking on it it's pretty simple to put together it's one plus one here on this one so they all said that though that ross that milo did what was best for andrew and paul all the time all the friends said that that's what he seemed like like friends said i was jealous of her dad what a great dad he was so um they said that milo tried to avoid or i'm sorry andrew would try to avoid what she saw as sandra's bad qualities to try to

just kind of ignore them because as a teenager you don't really have any other choice yeah it's your mom you can't like lay down the law with your mom and be like, listen, mom, we got to talk about your personality traits and what you need to change. You got responsibilities now. Yeah. Do that shit when you're 40 or something, but don't do it when you live in the house. Yeah. So one of her friends said, I'm sorry, this is one of her teachers, the woman who taught her equestrian stuff, said she didn't want to be like her mother. She fought that a lot, being like her mother she fought that a lot

uh being like her mother this is sherry little she's the woman who helped andrew better her equestrian skills and hone her chances at the rodeo queen contest oh she wants to be that huh she wanted to be the rodeo queen so she said she did not want to be like her mother this sherry little said she knew right away that andra had some problems when she met her. But she wanted to help the kid because she knew that she had a hard home life. So she said that she was helping Andra. Little was helping Andra try to be rodeo queen. And at the same time, Andra would work at her dairy where the Littles had a dairy.

And so she would help out in exchange for lessons. That's how they pay back. Andrew participated in the rodeo for a few years and then was active in the Idaho Horse Show Association. Sure. The IHSA. We all know that. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed

red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+,

religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership

to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee

Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, andbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to

go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So they grew very close. She grew close to her horse coach, I guess, as you would. I mean, if that's the only other person in your life and you don't have parents that you're really bonded with, it's pretty easy to attach to an adult. Yeah. She's bonded with her dad, but apparently, apparently you know this is a woman who doesn't threaten to kill her so right she's wants to bond with her a little bit um yeah this sherry little said i

really love andy she's a great kid um she said for a while during her sophomore year andra she was getting into fights all the time oh which is just straight. She's like a blonde girl, too. It's like fist fist fist fighting with people. She was even transferred out of school for a week. Oh, she went to Valley High School for a week and then went back to her other school. So I don't know how that worked. That's a strange thing. They said that she saw Andra fighting through her family problems the whole time. Other teachers saw this as well. Minico or Minico or however you say that high school there, the technology building. Andra is good with woodworking.

She does woodshop. Really? And she's really good at it. Yeah. I guess she's making an oak coffee table. Sick. Jesus Christ. I did wood shop.

We made like a fucking candle holder thing, and it was really not that hard. This sounds way harder than what we had to do. Yeah. This is like advanced woodworking here. There wasn't really. Maybe there was too many injuries or something, but it looked like I was never in wood shop. But from the passing by, the things that they were allowed to use seemed like you couldn't build much with them. Oh, no.

We had dangerous tools. Did you? You had bandsaws and shit? Oh, bandsaws, lathes. Really? We were sitting there with a chisel on a lathe. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah.

No, we were doing all that bandsaws, table saws. Big sanders? Our fucking woodshop teacher had three fingers left. I mean, literally. Shit was dangerous. We were fucking. It was crazy. big sanders our fucking woodshot teach woodshop teacher had three fingers left i mean literally like it was shit was dangerous we were fucking it was crazy but then we we were also didn't have any money so you couldn't have a lot of wood so you were gonna be like you're making a candlestick you get each get a piece of wood that's like a foot long and three inches wide and you got to make something out of that we don't have all this wood for you our woodshop teacher also was the

automotive teacher and i think he funneled all the money from both classes into the electric car because our electric car was like fucking state fast it was faster than it won everything no woodshop though at all but so i think he just took maybe he pawned all the fucking tools maybe that's possible and built this fucking porsche i remember metal shop being kind of terrifying because there's so many things are like if you do that everything will explode if you do that things will explode you're like you're letting i remember one time our shop teacher 16 year olds touch this shit i don't know if he smelled it or heard it the right way but some kid who had the oxyacetylene shit and wasn't doing it right and my shop teacher hurtled three of those desk chairs connected hurtled them

and went over and shut them off he almost blew the whole goddamn wing off the building you asshole i'll never forget that he screamed at the kid you almost blew the whole wing off the building you asshole and we just died laughing compressed gas is just open yeah it's like well why are you giving us this and you're over here with a flint a flint roller who do you think takes this class delinquents yeah we're we did this so we don't have to learn about napoleon bonaparte all of us are delinquents in this class they stuck us here every one of us are high right now well they yeah they stuck us here so we wouldn't disrupt a regular class that's why we're here

do you understand that we're just we're disrupting your fucking life now sir and you're giving us oxyacetylene tanks the fuck is wrong with you welcome to dangerous minds michelle fiverr yeah suck dummy no wonder why you have three fingers christ so the year before this andra made a beautiful uh oak silverware storage cabinet. Oh. A cabinet. The teacher was blown away. She was like... With hinges and shit. She was so good at woodworking that they were helping her

make this coffee table as well. They had the school's cooperative program with the College of Southern Idaho, and they said that Andra would probably have six to nine college credits coming out of school here from this stuff that she's doing. Right out of the gate. Right out of the gate.

When she's into something, she's into something. They said she had a bit of an attitude when she first came to the high school as a sophomore. She was getting in fights and all that. But then she matured. The teacher said her junior year, after she got settled in, she was just a different person. But then they said this year something was bothering this kid andra and um yeah it's it's it's very weird by the way she works she has a big a 1984 uh ford pickup that she works on all the time too she drives around

yeah andrew's a badass she's not messing around big boxy ones oh yeah the big square jobs there and it's a big like has square jobs there and it's a big like has big tires on it it's a big you know off-roading type thing three-quarter time god damn it take that thing down the dirt road it's fine so they said this year the teacher said she seemed a little more distracted from staying on task and they thought that you know it was an obvious reason why she had family problems the shop teacher said quote she's basically a good person that just probably needs a mother to say i love you a little bit jesus that's the saddest thing i've ever heard so fucking sad yeah so otherwise she'll just

build coffee tables till the end of time she really fucking arm was she's gonna you know what if she doesn't tell her we could probably get some beautiful furniture out of this kid i think we can do it she's don't tell her, we could probably get some beautiful furniture out of this kid. I think we can do it. She's really channeling. Maybe she'll stock a whole furniture store. She's obviously channeling. So we can sell this stuff, like pretend it's Amish people made it. It'll make a lot of money.

They sell that for a lot. So 1997, the divorce is back on again between Milo and Sandra. Okay. It's back on. They've been married for 16 and sandra okay it's back on they've been married for you know 16 years now and it's it's enough already so it's not amicable at all sandra she moves out of the house this is the thing he stays in the house with the kids okay and the kids go to visit her from time to time okay all right That's kind of how it works. Sandra gets a job doing road construction while living in a borrowed trailer. She's so bad.

That's they said to, she lost a bunch of weight. She was feeling good about herself. Yeah. She's like, this is my trailer. I'm that's right. Yeah. You know, she's swinging a fucking whatever the hell. I don't know.

Doing jackhammer work during the day. She's a badass. Yeah. She's swinging a fucking whatever the hell. I don't know. Doing jackhammer work during the day. She's a badass. Yeah. She's not. They just give her the break them rocks apart. And she's just smashing big rocks with a sledgehammer. Busting them up. She's smashing rocks with other rocks.

Give me a bigger rock. This rock's for pussies. What do you think I am? In the Navy? Give me a bigger rock. She's an army gal. So doing road construction, living in a borrowed trailer. In other words, life is her oyster at this moment in time.

You betcha. For her, she's pretty happy, though. This time, right around now, Milo meets another lady. Okay. In the middle of the divorce he does how does he's charming he just falls into it he's he's nice he's kind he's tall and handsome and and like of a like kind of a distinguished older rugged you know okay it's like a guy in his early 50s it's kind of rugged salt and pepper hair you know like he's a handsome guy for you know people he's a big guy

too they like that he's a big kind of cowboy looking guy even though he's a handsome guy for you know people he's a big guy too they like that he's a big kind of cowboy looking guy even though he's not a cowboy dude if mid 40s to late 50s tall muscly like rugged guy yeah rugged guy if he's single he's gonna slay he's gonna slay with the divorce with the divorcee crowd oh god he's gonna slay with the i have to be home to take my kids to school in the morning crowd gonna slay with them my 13 year old just went to bed i'll be exactly that's it yeah they all have teenage kids yeah these are all 40 but he meets uh uh mayda marie ring who is now mayda marie jones she born Ring, and then she gets married later. She gets married a couple times, but ends up keeping the Jones,

because I think that's an easy name to have. Yeah, much easier. I'm keeping that. So now his soon-to-be ex-wife is Sandra Jonas, and now this woman is Maida Jones. Oh, God, just one letter off. Yeah, try putting a fucking episode together like that. A little confusing. one letter off yeah try putting a fucking episode together like that a little confusing so maida is born uh 1952 so she's two years older than sandra um she was working as a waitress at

the and i heard this and i was like oh man what's this place like the hip-hop cafe what is that it's not what you think it is at all it's not at all like pictures of tupac on the wall it's more it's not even that it's just called i think there's like a rabbit thing on the sign i think it's more like that like it's got a rabbit thing yeah yeah like it's in the middle of nowhere it's a cafe it's rabbits and frogs and shit the jumps that's it rabbits frogs grasshoppers you get it it used to be called ribbit ribbit Bitch, but then they changed it. Now it's Hip Hop Cafe. So she was a waitress at the time, Maida was, and Milo was working for the trucking company still, and he was stopping by and eating.

And he ends up talking to her, and they're both nice people, and they chit chat. She's from American Falls, Idaho. She was born in 52. American Falls? American Falls. There's so was born in 52. American Falls. There's so many falls. So many falls. There's a falls for every season there.

So her parents are George and Martha. She grew up in the Lake Channel area of American Falls on a farm. She grew up on a farm, like an idyllic childhood farm life. Graduated from American Falls High School in 1970. She married a man named Lavelle Rupp in 1971. Okay. And had two children, Alan and David. Then she got divorced and married again to Larry Jones.

And she was like, there's the name I want. There he is. She started with Ring, then went to Rupp, and then ends up with Jones. She's like, I want five letters tops. I'm not fucking with this stuff i'm really not is ring like the doorbell no it's with an e it's fringe maybe ring either one all right it's ring with an e so ringy ringy who knows but either way he is she's definitely she wants a fucking short name she's going with jones made of jones which sounds kind of cool actually it's not bad mayda jones sounds like a 70s movie star like boxy brown and mayda jones are gonna star in yeah feels like a character that uh quentin tarantino would put in a movie

yeah big afro pulls a gun out of her tight leather suit that sort of thing except she's very blonde and doesn't look like that at all yeah everyone here is very blonde this is all mormons involved here so sometimes cowboy names sound uh sound not cowboy yeah lavelle that that sounds you know i mean yeah cropper lavelle yeah that's a fucking cowboy name that's also a cowboy name yeah you hear trey cowboy name that's true well yeah it shouldn't be anybody's name really though let's be realistic here no one should be named trey yeah right nobody should be named trey if that's what your name is maybe call yourself this is the time reinvent yourself yeah you haven't liked that name ever have you if that's your name go buy your real name because

it's not your name and if somebody named you trey go yell at your parents go who came up with my fucking name who did this to me yeah this name sucks all three of our listeners named trey are quickly unsubscribing we just lost three listeners i know there's three of them trey's when you put three together i know that's why i them there's three when you put three together it's got to do it all in threes yeah they can't get each other out in threes that's it three trays goodbye so uh she marries larry jones they later divorce as well they have two children megan and charles so she has four kids altogether here by the nineties. Some of them are grown.

They're in their twenties. Some of them here. So this is Milo. What a great guy here. When he, when he likes a woman, the way he gets them is to say, how'd you like to be a dispatcher at a trucking and construction company?

Cause this is a second. He gives her a job as the dispatcher at circle a construction that's what he does to sit next to sandra or did she quit no no sandra's doing road construction living in a borrowed trailer that's all over with she's gone we need us we need a dispatcher she's gonna move into her seat now yeah so mayda is excited because this is a better job with the salary and everything and she is working overnights as the dispatcher. Jesus. For trucking, for their trucking side of the business.

It's construction and trucking, apparently. So she's doing that. She does have, like I said, four kids. One of her family members said, as a mother, she's a very caring mother to her children. Her kids were always involved in sports in high school and she never missed a game. She always had two or three different jobs trying to make the best for her kids and family. So this was an opportunity for her to not have to have three jobs. Right.

And working overnight gave her an opportunity to make it to all the kids games because all the kids were into sports and they were all doing stuff. And it gave her time to do that as well because she worked at night. Now her kid to job ratio is so much better. It's so much better. So she's excited, and at the same time, her and Milo become friends and become closer and closer and can't help but notice that they're two nice single people just mingling out here. And, you know, hey, what are we going to do about it?

So what will we do may of 19 man that's what are you gonna do god trey called him trey milo trey ross it's his full name no it's not but we could call him milo so may of 1998 um miloo enters in what's called a whirlwind romance with Jones here, with Maeda. Maeda needs a place to stay. She is having her home redone. She has a house, but she's having a bunch of the kitchens getting redone and something else. There's some damage in the basement from something. She's having some stuff done, so she needs a place to stay.

And Milo says, wouldn't you know it? Half my bed's open. I got a beautiful house. No, actually. Oh. That's how on the level Milo is, actually. He actually doesn't say, I won't have premarital sex. Come here.

Come on. Come on. He actually sets her up in a spare room in the basement. Wow. With a bed. And now, And a spare room in the basement. Wow. With a bed. So now Andra also lives in the basement. So there's two rooms in the basement. Meta lives in one of the rooms in a bed and Andra lives in another room there.

So they did not share a bed before marriage. Impressive. Didn't want to share a bed. Practice is what he preaches. Imagine having that in your house. It's like, okay, that's all fun and games, but we're both horny and we're in the house together. What are we talking about here? As soon as the kids leave, it's naked time.

Yeah, we're definitely getting naked here. We're at least doing something fucking to make this happen. We will rub ourselves and stare at each other. We'll have James Marsden jump on the bed. It's fine. If you haven't seen Jury Duty, you should definitely watch that. Not the Pauly Shore movie, the new series. Oh, God.

It's hilarious. So confusing. And you'll understand that reference and laugh. Smaller jumps. Smaller jumps, James. No, bigger jumps. Maida here, she is always helping people. That's the other thing.

Not only is she working overnights as a dispatcher, working the graveyard shift, the graveyard shift. She's also taking care of her kids. She's helping Milo with stuff around the house. She's got her house getting reconstructed. She's also one of the first advocates for victims of domestic violence and rape in Power County as well. Unbelievable. Yes, and rape. She's like, you know what not just domestic violence i'm tired of the punching but the second that it goes even further i'll help you too let's get a big umbrella and put it on top of this bad boy

why don't right up until they murder you i'll take care of you i'll help you and then she's also a member of the power county Domestic Violence Support Group as well. Wow. She also served as an EMT as well. What? An emergency medical technician for the Power County Ambulance Service because they don't have a lot of EMTs because it's a rural area. And also was employed at Circle A Construction as a dispatcher. Wow.

She has got a lot going on. And it's all positive. There's not a lot of threats to people's lives not a lot of alcoholism just kind of doing positive things for people in the community and and uh right being nice to her family and stuff like that so good for her good for her and she's also a devout mormon by the way as well of course yeah yeah so they're into milo likes that they go to church together paul is actually getting ready to go on a mission to England for two years. Two years? That's how long they do those?

The missions are two years, yeah. My God. It's a long fucking time. They want you away from your family and everything, I guess, and whatever. So two years in England, so they're all getting ready for him to leave, and they're going to have a big celebration for him. leave and like they're having like they're gonna have a big celebration for him i guess the church when you leave to go on a mission all the kids that are going on a mission go to the church and they they have like a party for them and all the kids make a speech and you know about them leaving and all that crap and everybody you know tells them they're gonna miss them and all that shit

and then the family has a big celebration and they leave so that's how it works. October 23rd, 1998. She's been in the bed in the house down in the basement for like five months now. Milo can't take it anymore. Balls a-throbbing. What did he say? We head on down to the courthouse. He goes on and, well, no, he just goes and buys a nice engagement ring at a store, buys a ring, and gets and proposes to Maida on October 23, 1998. She's thrilled to accept.

Wow. She tells her whole family. She's on cloud nine. She couldn't be happier. She loves Milo. She's never been so happy. She can't wait to get married. So thrilled, super thrilled. Then that lasts for about two days.

Okay. Two days later, October 25, 1998, Maida is preparing food for a big going away party for Paul. Yeah. Apparently what's going to happen is she's preparing food. Paul's at church with Milo. She's going to get all this food started, then meet them at church in time to see Paul's speech and all that. Then they're all going to come back to the house, have a big feast. Put him on a plane, send him to-

Yep. He's leaving in a couple days or whatever. So that's the plan here. So it's a Sunday morning. Everybody left for church. Milo, or I'm sorry, Maida tells Milo and Paul, go ahead. She'll meet them there. She's got a few things to chop and she's got to put a roast in the oven and it should be

ready right when we get back. Going to roast fucking perfect timing here wow so they go yeah sounds great they leave for church and she never shows up at church oh they're like damn that roast must have been a beast like what's up with that yeah it's a big fucking roast so they get back to the house and she's not at the house oh Oh. And they're like, what the fuck? And when they walk into the house, because this is like, you know, six o'clock, five hours go by. Right. They walk in and the house, nobody's there. She's not there.

And they said, what? There's a roast in the oven, okay? Oh. But there's an overwhelming smell of cleaning solutions that they smell. Oh. Paul and Milo. And they're like, what the fuck is this? God, it reeks of cleaning solution and burnt roast paul and milo and they're like what the fuck is god it reeks of cleaning solution and burnt roast like what is that so they notice the oven's on the

roast is in there burnt to a crisp it's horrible yeah which is not made it doesn't burn a roast like she ain't burning your roast not messing around so they're like that's weird what the hell happened so they're, this is very strange. Paul said the roast was in the oven still and it had been completely burnt to a crisp, which was not like Maida. My dad said something's just not right. So they sit there and they wait for a few hours. They try to they can't find her. This is pre cell phones here. So, you know, 98, this is, they're just sitting around trying to wait for her.

And she doesn't come home. So they go, well, we'll wait. She has to work graveyard. So once 11 o'clock comes and she has to be at work, we'll call there. She's never not shown up at work. We'll know where she is then. Yeah, something must have happened maybe with her family or something and she couldn't get to a phone. So then we'll know once she gets to work.

So then they call work a few minutes after 11. She never shows up for work either no maid at work so no maid at work roast burnt they start getting up and kind of looking around the house it's at that point where they see what appears to be a bullet hole in the wall oh in the wall milo and paul so they go let's go ahead and call the sheriff's department what do you say this is uh she's missing didn't show up at work bullet hole in the wall i think maybe we're outside of our realm of expertise now so they do they call the jerome county sheriff's department to report her missing and uh detective chatterton is the one there we'll talk about him later because he's got an interesting he's got an interesting arc later on after the story here chatterton chatterton does Chatterton does, yeah. He's an interesting cat. So this is what he says.

He says, quote, when called to the house at about 12.01 a.m. Monday to investigate the disappearance, detectives found a blood smear on the back steps. Oh. They found droplets and a smear going down the back steps, not the front, the back, and a large reddish stain on the dining room carpet, which isn't good.

The stain was still wet and smelled like pine-scented cleaner. Okay, yeah. So it had been shampooed. Red pine salt. Red pine salt like 10 minutes ago. Yeah. saw like 10 minutes ago yeah also uh they find in the wall they dig in and find a very damaged 22 slug in that bullet hole in the wall and what appeared to be blood spatter found on a wood stove on the other side of the room oh it's a little bit of spatter over there now in that

in the uh wall by the way where the bullet was the wall, kind of where the bullet would go through, they also found a hair there as well. There was a hair on the bullet, and it went through. So they said what appeared to be blood and human hair were also found in one of the beds. Oh, I'm sorry, in the bed in the rear bumper of the pickup truck in the house later on as well. We'll talk about that but that didn't come to later so the sheriff here or the uh deputy uh jerome county sheriff's lieutenant he said the feeling almost from the beginning was this is not a missing persons case we were almost immediately convinced we were looking for a body yeah it feels like it i see big blood stains

cleaned up bullet holes and walls with hair, blood spatter. Hair's all over the place. Jesus. Fucking blood going out the back door. There's a problem. So the detectives talked to, obviously, Paul and Milo. They're the ones there. So they talked to them.

The detectives said Paul was kind of quiet. He was kind of quiet. But Milo, he said he was, quote, appropriately concerned appropriately concerned confused and lost a bit by the situation sure he was like what the fuck what's what like a normal person would be like what's going on what can we do you know what's up with this shit they said that maida right away is not a runaway type of person sometimes people just take off and someone sure who has all these responsibilities that she seems to enjoy fulfilling and is literally in the middle of one. She's in the middle of cooking a roast. People don't put a roast in, chop up a bunch of vegetables, do that, put some tinfoil over it, get the oven preheated, put it in and then be like, fuck this family and fucking leave.

That's not normal. I'm going to Wyoming. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm going to be a cowgirl on the ranch in Wyoming. It's not normal i'm going to wyoming yeah i'm going to be a cowgirl on the ranch in wyoming it's not normal so milo and paul they said are there anything of value missing from the house can you guys do us a favor walk around the house and look for if anything of value is missing from here so they said they couldn't find anything of value missing but they point out some very odd things about the house uh milo says there was about five or six newspapers on the dining room table that are gone now.

Newspapers? Old newspapers, five or six. You know how everybody will stack something on the dining room table? Yeah. It's newspapers for them. You know what I mean? And, you know, the newspaper thing is it's when you've the all the ad shopping, all the fucking coupons are clipped. You just stick it there.

Maybe we'll read this later. Yeah. Everybody had a pile of old newspapers when new people used to get newspapers. He said those are gone. Also, there was a throw rug under the dining room table on top of that carpet. That's gone, too. No throw rug. Six newspapers gone.

carpet that's gone too no throw rug six newspapers gone okay also they when they went down in the basement to see if anything was taken of value out of maida's room yeah they noticed nothing's gone there's no valuables gone the only thing that's missing is her entire bed and bed frame are missing frame and everything not just the mattress not just the bedding everything's gone there was no there's no bed there now. Somebody took apart a frame. A frame. Didn't steal rings or earrings or jewelry or any of that shit. Just took a bed frame and six old newspapers and a throw rug. That's all that's missing in the whole house.

Which is a very, very odd haul for a. Very strange. For a burglar, if that's the case. Yeah, it's an odd caper, to say the least. I need the sports section from Friday. Get that for me. I need a tiny throw rug that I could use as a shawl for my little dog. And you know what?

I could use a new bed. I'm breaking in. Business section, two days ago. You know what, shit? I'm looking for a job right now. If I could find one, I. I'm breaking in. Business section two days ago. You know what, shit? I'm looking for a job right now. If I could find one, I don't have to do this. Looking for a job and a 76 duster. That's what I'm doing.

You got one? I'll check the classifieds. I got six days worth. Andra's also in the house when they're there. She's in her room in the basement. And she said she's been sick all night. She's had an upset stomach and hasn't been. She's been kind of in and out of sleeping and just hasn't been feeling well all night.

Now it's like one something in the morning by this point. And the cops are like, that's weird because if you were a 17 year old kid sitting down there and you hear all this activity going on upstairs at one o'clock in the morning you know like cops here and people walking around the house and your brother and father coming down to look for missing valuables you might go what up with that you know what i mean like what's happening but she just stayed in bed and a few minutes at least some point tonight there was a gunshot that happened because that bullet hole wasn't there when we left yeah that's what i mean maybe that so the detective here uh this is chatterton he says i met with milo ross and his son paul and i was told in the house was also his daughter she was 16 or 17 years old at that time her name was andra and she was sick in bed that immediately seemed odd to me for the reasons i just explained he said normally a kid that's 16 17 would be like what the fuck's going on up here so um they said no valuables other than those that we said

so they decide to they want to there's obviously they think there's a crime that's happened here so they want to lock this down as a crime scene they don't have a crime a mobile crime lab so they need to get the state mobile crime lab to come in because they don't have a lot of murders around here. So they say, we got to lock down the house and guys pack an overnight bag and we're moving you to a motel for the night.

So grab your toothbrushes and grab all that shit. As they're all preparing to leave, now Andra comes upstairs because she has to leave. They said that Andra refused to make eye contact with the detectives

and her face was, quote, as white as a sheet is what one detective said. They said that Angela refused to make eye contact with the detectives. And her face was, quote, as white as a sheet, is what one detective said. Which, if she's sick, that also makes sense. You look pale. Now, to leave, to go to the hotel, she grabbed her keys and wanted to drive her pickup truck. Oh. And the detective said, no, no, no, it's at the house. We can't let anything from the house leave, only your toothbrushes and stuff like that. Otherwise, it's all part of the crime scene.

She kept insisting on taking the truck. I want my car. I want to take my truck. I got my music in there, this and that. She had all these excuses. Not allowed, sweetheart. Not allowed to do it. So the police give them a ride to the motel.

They leave everything at the house here. So the next day, crime scene investigators are there at seven o'clock in the morning. That's when they retrieve a small caliber, very damaged bullet from the inside of the dining room wall. Also is when they look at Andrew's truck outside and Chatterton said it looked like blood had run out of the bed of the truck and was dried on the back bumper. Oh, that's not good no and it looked like the back had been washed out recently as well they said oh like it had been cleaned so they were like oh we're the one cop said very happy i didn't release this truck from the crime scene because yeah there's blood on it that's not good even if it's animal blood how crazy is it

that she didn't even notice that there's blood running yeah fucking back that's weird i mean people that are hunting all the time they're you see some weird shit there there's if you drive remember us driving through some of these states where there'd be these cars that are covered in blood with fucking deer on top of them and you're like oh my god it's so weird it looks crazy it was just your car's covered in blood wash your car off it's covered in blood so it's at that point where they're like this is really weird they're like why would there be blood in her car she has no what's going on it's at that point the police get a phone call oh okay they're searching the house and the other everybody's in a motel they get a phone call and it's from someone they did not expect to hear from it's from sandra

jonas's mother colleen oh okay she called police because she had talked to milo and milo had told her what had happened and if you need to get a hold of the kids were in this motel and blah blah blah colleen became immediately concerned and she said she feared that her daughter might have had something to do with Jones disappearing. Oh, yeah. She's this is from the sheriff captain here. Quote, Colleen had said that her daughter was could be very ornery and that she could be very mean when drinking and that she had a bad alcohol problem. Yeah. Well, Colleen blamed says she went into gossiping now colleen said there her whole

marriage fell apart because of her drinking she said her marriage cps took her baby that's why she's cps she her she's crying her and uh she also said that sandra's still very much in love with her ex-husband and has been drinking more heavily because she's very upset. So Chatterton said, quote, Colleen said that Sandra had never accepted the divorce. In her mind, her and Milo, although they weren't legally married, were still together. Never going to. You can't leave me. In her mind.

That's it. No, we're hitched there. Yeah. I don't know if you knew that or not. Do you remember that till death part? Well, I mean it. I fucking that's it. No, we're hitched there. Yeah. I don't know if you knew that or not. Do you remember that till death part? Well. I mean it. I fucking, I meant it.

I don't care if you did or not. So apparently this is the day, by the way, this is the day that this all happened was the day that Sandra found out about the engagement from two days ago. She just heard about it, had flown off the fucking handle and told colleen all about it her mom and went batshit over it colleen said this sent sandra in a rage over the edge uh she said she's not only is she pissed she's also armed she said too so she said quote sandra had been seen with a 22 caliber pistol on sunday afternoon and she had even made a comment to her mother, I believe it was, that, quote, I should kill that Maeda while holding a gun. And then the lady disappears that day. And her mom, she's not even gone for 24 hours, and her mom is already blowing up her spot, being like, I'm afraid.

Yeah, because she really hates this lady she really likes her husband like not only given just the basics like a lead also given a motive right and really laying the case out for them i did find some shell casings case y'all are interested i could drop them all off at the police station so they search a trailer that they believe sandra is thought to be living and in there they find a Ruger 22 caliber semi-automatic pistol. Uh-oh. Yup. They said that that's obviously, that fits the description of the weapon that everybody

saw her with that day. Yup. Was a 22 pistol. And it's at this point too that they also find out from mom that, yeah, you should search her house. And while you're at it, she did. When she moved into this trailer, she put a lot of stuff in a storage unit. So you might want to check that out, too. Here's the address for the storage unit, in case you all want to know.

Just giving them everything. Oh, God. I got a hair sample from a hairbrush in my house that, in case you all need some DNA, I can bring that to you. It's like, just hire the mom. Coll is a detective i'm sorry yeah so they go to the storage unit and it's sandra rents it um they searched it's it's uh insulation and rental storage in burley is what they search here and the cop said going in this is sheriff billy crystal by the well by the way sheriff billy chrisley brought he brought the herd in and now he's a sheriff in idaho perfect sheriff billy crystal there's a better name coming up jimmy wait till you hear it oh i can't wait

i'm saving time because we're gonna need some time to bat it around like a bat like a cattle bat around like a ball of yarn. We're going to be knocking this thing back and forth for a while. Well, we'll beat it like a dead bird anyway. We'll beat it to death. So this Billy Crystal said, quote, they expected to find a body in there going in. They're fully expecting that's where the body is in the storage unit. They don't find a body in there.

What do they find? They do find the missing bed taken apart. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Whole bed frame mattress. She put that in storage? In her storage unit. Wow.

And a shitload of cleaning supplies, a bunch of them with smeared blood residue. You know, like if your gloved hand was bloody and you grabbed the cleaning supply and then put it down and then left blood on the cleaning supply. You picked up the Lysol bottle. Yeah. You cleaned everything with the Lysol bottle but didn't clean the Lysol bottle. That's the problem. Or your hand. So that's what they find in there.

Alright. Not great. They also find blood-stained rags. Yeah. That's not good. A bloody shoe print just outside the door. Any other evidence a trail of m&ms leading to her fucking to her front door like what are we talking about just leave the body in there that's what i mean why not what's the difference so they said okay we we're gonna hold off on sandra because we don't have a lot of ideas and evidence we need to build a full case on her

they need to build an arrestable case yeah i mean we have a bed that used to be in that house this morning but they don't know how it got there yet so they'd like to do some interviewing and they think that sandra's going to be a tough nut to crack okay she's not the type where you're going to bring her in there and make her feel guilty and she'll go you're right i did it i'm sorry so they need to have evidence she needs to be pinned in a corner before they think she's gonna crack basically so they're like let's bring andrea in she was in the house she said she was sick she's white as a ghost she doesn't look very like she's telling the truth let's find out if she might know more than we think she has blood

yeah her truck is covered in blood that she wants to drive so they said that the cops said they knew that the Ross's Milo Paul and Andra were staying with a friend of theirs of you know family friends uh at a house near their church okay they had taken them in because obviously they didn't want to stay at their house right now and it's a crime scene so the cops said they calculated to show up they said it was right about 10 30 p.m because they figured right before that everybody about an hour half hour before that everyone will have said their prayers and did all that stuff and everybody will be thinking very nice and calm and contemplative and all that kind of stuff that's when we that's when we swoop in and and break up the piece of this fucking joint so their false

sense of security uh ready to go to bed exactly that's your pjs on feeling all fucking nice warm warm glass of milk next to you yeah so they show up at 10 30 and they go in and they're going to interview andrew in the house they want to interview her right there just to make it like it seem real casual and comfortable so they talk to andrew and they go look andrew we have some evidence and it's her and milo are in the room because she's a minor so milo's her father he's standing in the room and she and they said listen you know we'd like to talk to you there's just been some stuff that's come to our attention that we feel like maybe you know something that we need

to tell you yeah and she looked at her father and said can you please leave the room oh dad get out i got some and so milo said i guess if you want me to and are you comfortable and she said no i want to talk to them and i can't do it in front of you got to leave the room so dad leaves the room they're left with andrea here 17 years old and she takes a deep breath and this is how she starts okay this is a hell of you know they talk about burying the lead a lot andrew should be a journalist because she certainly doesn't bury the lead anyway this is a quote from chatterton quote she proceeded to tell me quote one thing that you gotta know before we, the head's not with the body. Oh, Jesus.

Everyone went, what? That's not what we expected. Yeah. We were looking for, I heard a gunshot at six o'clock. Not the head's not with the body. That's not what we expected to come out of your little blonde head. What the fuck? Wow.

So they said, okay, you want to elaborate on that a little bit and go and go and andrew said well um i didn't know what was going on but she was with her mother that day beforehand that she started out at mom's house and she said that mom told her sandra asked her to that's why she's Andra. Sandra and Andra. I just got it as soon as you said that. Me too. Sandy and Andy.

We both looked up at the same time at each other and said, oh my God, she named her kid Sandy. It's mom without the S. Oh my God. That is disturbing. So anyway, Sandy asked Andy, would you come and help me get a bed that's still at your father's house? It's my bed, but I need you to help me. Just help me take the parts, take it apart. It'll go quicker if we both do it.

We'll get it in there. She said her mom really wanted this bed. She wanted to take this bed. Why? So Maida didn't have one. We're taking this bed because she's not going to sleep in my house yep that was my bed that was in my house and she's not going to i'll just take the bed then what's she going to do she can't sleep in the bed then no all she's doing is making her then go sleep

in the bed with milo because that's right she's not going to sleep on the floor right yeah but i got the bed left that's fine so she said that they arrived. Andra, Andra and Sandra arrived at the house when dad and Paul had already left for church and it was just made a Jones and she was cooking. So she said that immediately Sandra got into a big screaming match with Maida. I mean, it was like fire from the beginning. Open the door.

You fucking bitch in my fucking house and you dare you. I'm taking that fucking bed cause it's mine and milo i mean just going on a tirade so a lot of people have heard this tirade before so then she tells she turns to andrea here sandra does she turns to andrea and says go wait in the basement till i'm done go fucking start taking the bed apart and wait down there for me i I'm going to fucking argue up here. So Andrew said, okay, she goes down to the basement and starts taking the bed apart. I guess that's just, you know, she's listening to mom at this point. So she said that she heard a voice and a loud thump in an adjacent bedroom room.

Okay. Then she heard what sounded like someone wearing heavy shoes or boots moving quickly up the stairs. By the way, Sandra's got her steel toed work boots on today. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So she hears up. You know how if anybody in East Coast basement or anybody with a basement, you know how basement stairs sound. You can hear him.

So she hears this and she's just here, you know, thump and then poof, poof, poof, poof, poof. So Andrew's like, what the fuck is going on? Wrench, wrench, wrench. Like, I'm not interested in this. So Andrew said she began shaking with fear at that point. She was very scared and she called out for her mother. And at that point, she heard the sound of a gunshot come from upstairs. Oh, yeah. So she was like, oh, fuck. So sound of a gunshot come from upstairs. Oh. Yeah. So she was like, oh, fuck.

So she waited. Her mother never answered her. And there was a gunshot. So she waited a few minutes go by. She sits down there just in the quiet waiting. And then after a few minutes, there's a second gunshot. What? And she's like, what the fuck here? Yeah, it's pretty interesting what she did what she'll end up telling andrea that she did sandra was she shot mayda uh in her left cheek

with the slug exiting near her left ear and she was also shot in the back of the head with powder burns on her so it was fucking up against her execution style right up like a mob hit so anyway uh andrea comes upstairs and sees made his dead body on the floor wrapped in the dining room throw rug wow we know what happened to the rug yeah andrea said her mother told her i shot her under the eye and had to shoot her in the back of the head so sandra then got her daughter involved and says you got to help me clean this up she goes it's a hell of a mess to clean up you got to help me because otherwise we won't get it all cleaned up by the time dad and

your brother come home right so andrew said she was nauseated while cleaning up blood all over the house but she said she was kind of in shock and she didn't know what, she just didn't know what was going on. That makes sense. I could see that. I could see that for this girl. Because this girl, she doesn't, she likes Maida.

She likes her. She was excited it was going to be her new stepmom. So this is very weird. She's always looking for a mother figure. Now she's got a very nice lady who's very willing to play the part. Making a roast. Making a roast, exactly. Not running around around coming home drunk and yelling at people it's a little bit different she said she was in shock she said i had no feelings no anger no hate

no fear and uh she said that sandra appeared at the same time expressionless as well everybody they were just fucking blank faced doing this. Anatomic, just doing weird shit. Doing real weird shit. Cleaning up brain off the floor. So her mother then instructed her, tells Andra to go fix the basement telephone, which she said Sandra said she broke because Maida tried to pick it up and use it. And that was the sound of the thump that she heard was her kicking the phone off the wall and attacking her. And that's why there was a hole in the wall right there as well by the phone.

So, wow. They then take the body, rolled up in the throw rug, take it out the back stairs. That's why there's blood drops down the back stairs. And put it into Andra's 1984 orange and tan Ford pickup truck. My truck? My truck. She's got a pickup.

Oh, my God. So Andra said she helped her mother load up the body and the bed frame parts into the pickup truck. Like, we're moving now. Yeah. And then Andra drove. Sandra made Andra drive. They drive to a nearby canal. It's about a mile, mile and a half away.

Where, this is fucking crazy. Okay, this is where it really gets wild. As if it wasn't wild enough already, it gets really wild. So she then tells Andra, stay in the car. Yeah, you don't want to watch this. I got to take care of something. Gets out of the car. Andra you don't want to watch this. I got to take care of something. Gets out of the car. Sandra watches her through the mirrors the whole time.

She's got to see what kind of a monster her mother is here. So she watches her pull the body out of the bed of the pickup truck on the ground. Yeah. Watches her strip Maida's body of all her clothing. Yeah. Then she watches Sandra pull out a hunting knife and saw off Maida's head with a hunting knife. Oh, boy.

She cut her head off with a five-inch hunting knife. Oh, five. Five-inch blade. A thick, sturdy one, not a little pocket knife, but a fixed, like a... Five-inch. She sawed her fucking head off with a five-inch blade. A thick, sturdy one, not a little pocket knife, but a fixed, like a... Five inches. She sawed her fucking head off with a five inch blade. That's a tiny knife.

Do you know how much work that takes? Oh, God, Jesus. And how gross that is and how horrifying that is to do to a human being? It's one thing if you got a big machete and did it one chop or something. That'd be gross still. But she had to hold her by the hair and just fucking saw this shit oh i'm sorry to be graphic about it but holy christ i mean think about what the you have to do everybody saw those isis videos that was like a 12 inch blade this is yeah that sort of

shit yeah it was made for head chopping that blade this is not a head cutting blade this is made for like a fish head chopping knife yeah maybe cut the guts out of a fish and had a point at the end like that like a yeah um so she watches her do that she then wow um this is from chatterton a quote from the detective her mother threw the head into the canal picked it up by the hair and just tossed it into the canal oh my god then dragged the rest of the body out to the canal as well and just pushed that in the water rolled it into the water yeah and when mom came back she told andrew a quote don't worry nobody will ever to be able to identify her if they do find her i put the head and the body in at the same time in the same place. Nobody will ever find both. No one will find those together.

Then she said, Mom, how could you do this? Yeah. And Sandra said, quote, it's no harder than killing cats. Oh, Ma. Oh, well, that makes it better then. That's not normal either. Again, not normal. Killing cats isn't normal.

That shouldn't be easy for you either. No harder than killing cats. Step on it, sweetheart. Letilling cats isn't normal. That shouldn't be easy for you either. No harder than killing cats. Step on it, sweetheart. Let's get out of here. Didn't give a fuck, she said. So they find this information out from Andrea, like we said, at the house. Then they have to walk out of the room with Andrea and walk up to Milo and go, we got a lot to tell you, Milo. And they do.

walk up to Milo and go, we got a lot to tell you, Milo. And they do. They have to say, Andrew just told us that your wife murdered your fiance and cut her head off with a hunting knife. We're going to go check the canal for her head now. Have a good one. That's literally what they have to say. You and Paul hang tight. We're going to go look for your fiance's head.

Be back soon. Unreal. BRB going to go on a head hunt right now. Might be in the canal so they take andrea out they drive her it's only a mile away they drive her out to the canal and she says this is the spot i backed up to um and she's they said she said her mother threw the head it looked like it went out about this far whatever so she shows the spot. They have the water to the canal, to the dam shut off, so it drains.

They drain the canal for about eight hours overnight here, all night. Then at about seven o'clock in the morning, they get divers out there and start looking when the water's lower. And they find the head soon because Andrea knew where her mom threw it. And Chatterton explains, quote, the human head doesn't float if it's severed from the body.

Thanks, Chatterton. Thanks. He's a real fucking grim chatty over here. You don't have to give us that piece. Just say we found it rather quickly. That's all we have to say. Well, no, he goes on to graphically explain how they find the head, which only our fucking listeners would be interested in, and us. So the human head doesn't float if it's severed from the body.

It weighs roughly eight pounds, and when you fling it out into the water, it's going to reach the apex of your throw, hit the water, and sink. So they're like trying to get a trajectory on it they're like a trajectory of this it lands here it's gonna boom it's gonna immediately sink so that's where it is he said and that's literally right where we found the head wow right where they calculate so it's probably there within three feet of there that's exactly where it was but they don't see the rest of the body no can't find that it floats it takes till two o'clock in the afternoon until they find her torso and some of her clothes and personal items too in separate spots because she just threw everything in the canal about a mile and a half away and it floated down they find her body. Her bra was found on a rock. They found stuff like that.

The autopsy reveals that she did, in fact, die from two gunshot wounds to the head, just like Sandra told her. One came out and one, I think, was in. They believe that she had been shot sometime between 1 p.m. Sunday around there. That's the ballpark here 20 29 79 east uh 110 i'm sorry 29 79 east 10 10 south is the street i don't know that's a weird address man that's idaho though i guess it's just i guess it's haz. It's Southeast of just Southeast of Hazleton, just barely inside the Jerome County line. They said they concluded the body was then placed in the vehicle,

moved to the canal. So they take Andra from the canal to the sheriff's department to arrest her. Obviously they have to arrest her. They charge her with accessory to murder. Um, but they figure then Sandra's a different kind of cat. Andra's a, she's a crying teenager she you can arrest her if they go bum rush andrew in the middle of the night and knock on her fucking door they're she's gonna know why they're there yeah she's not gonna be like can i help you

officers they're afraid yeah she's crazy enough is it about the murder they're afraid she's crazy enough to come out shooting because she threatens to kill all these people. She's obviously not in her fucking. She kills animals. Anyone who can take a woman and just grab their head and saw it off for 10 minutes with a hunting knife is capable of fucking anything. Anything. So they're scared of her. So they decide that they are going to wait until she leaves for work the next morning and get her coming out of the house.

Oh. So she won't suspect it. So she comes out of her house on a Tuesday morning, and they jump all over her and arrest her. They bring her in. They bring her in, and what does she have on her at the time? The gun. Number one.

They found the gun in the search of the other thing. Okay. Number? They found the.22. Does she have that fucking blade in her pocket? They found a fixed blade, five-inch bladed hunting knife. Oh, my God. Exactly what Andra described her using.

She has it in her fucking pocket. They described it as a big, sturdy knife. Nothing small. You could take a head off with it. Solid handle. In the other pocket, while they're taking stuff out, something falls out of her pocket, hits the floor. What is it? Rolls off.

They pick it up. It is fucking Maida's engagement ring. What? In her pocket. She kept it? Only the top of it. The band part had been cut off. She snipped the band part off. She cut off its head too. She just took the gems? it the band part had been cut off she snipped the band part off she cut off

the gems the whole like top part it had the gems with the other stuff around it just like snipped the band so the band just the top part so that's what she has on her by the way milo has a receipt for the ring brought it back to the shop it's the same ring it's milo's so she has the fucking decapitation weapon and the victim's ring in her pocket right she was taking that around with her in her pocket she put that in a shelf somewhere no she's like it's with me all the time and not even the ring it's the just the fucking crown of it yep take that so wow. So they hold Sandra without bond. Because they're like, she's fucking dangerous here. This, obviously people freak out.

They arrest Andra as well. So now, like, the public is just like they arrested a mother and a daughter. They don't know if the daughter's just as in on it. Maybe the daughter did it. The mother helped out. There's everyone's, the rumors are rampant as far as everything goes. Yeah, it's wild andra decides at this point this is wild um talk about mothers calling the cops on their

daughters daughters accepting plea deals to testify against their mothers these people are not italian i know that much this is so the but they andrea agrees to plead guilty to a charge of being an accessory to murder in connection with this whole thing okay because she drove the truck she helped out with the body she did all that she also threw away two spent 22 caliber shell casings believed to have those are the murder casings there and uh they also said she was charged with concealing evidence because of that but they're willing to drop that charge in exchange for a plea on the other one and her testimony so they said quote this is what her defense attorney said she's going to be scarred for life she'll never forget what she's seen

no kidding no kidding she doesn't seem she's not heartless she's not one of these people who's like let's chop off her head so for just a regular kid who's a nice kid and trying to make her way in the world and her mom's kind of an asshole to her and everything this is brutal she just asked why did you do that absolutely so she's gonna do that um her lawyer said quote they want first degree and the only person who can affect it effectively give it to them is her yeah they want sandra first degree and they're only getting it if andrew testifies um she the lawyer also says she's not doing it to save her hide this was a tough decision for her she's doing it to do the right thing yeah and there's no reason for her to throw her whole life away because her mom did something that she had nothing to do with. Mom's fucked either way.

She's fucked. She's done. So during a hearing, this is a preliminary hearing, to make sure she'll testify here, she, by the way, Sandra, keeps wearing her mirrored sunglasses in the courtroom. In the courtroom? All through the fucking court proceedings.

Wow. When you get a dumber thing to do, you're trying to make a connection with the jury with the judge with all these people she's like nope i'm a fucking mirror i'm a brick wall yeah no emotion wow that is amazing to me so uh yeah she's got the mirrored sunglasses on so andrew said that her mother um in court had told the line about she told her that it was no harder than killing cats gross and she said that they said sandra jonas at that point hung her head and wept her daughter just fucking that'll blue yeah just sold her up the river

in every way shape and form so uh they're gonna have a trial for her, but then they're saying the death penalty is on the table for you there, darling. And so Sandra agrees to plead. First she pleaded innocent to first degree, but she changes her plea to guilty in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table. As long as you don't do what I just did. Please don't saw my head off for ten minutes. So her lawyer said basically you have you're fucked you have no chance here they can do whatever they want they have all the evidence witness you're done you had a ring in your pocket you're you're fucked and she had to she now faces at least 10 years in prison or a maximum of life without okay life without parole so 10 years the

minimum there's the maximum depending on what kind of murder well yeah it's depending on what kind of murder it was i think this is as bad as it gets right there's no way that's a 10 year no no no i think once you saw someone's head off you're going for extra time at that point yeah yeah i mean it feels like every stroke should be a couple should be another decade. That's what I mean. You get two people next to me and they're both murderers. But one of them literally took a knife and sawed the woman's head off. I'm terrified of what they're capable of.

Terrified. It's anything. Yeah. They got the blood all over them. Oh, it's sprayed in their mouth. They tasted it. They bathed in it. Yeah.

They wiped their eyes because there's blood in it. That's crazy. that they felt the temperature of it oh my god oh my that's fucking wild so they said that the lawyer will ask the county judge who is presiding to issue this is the uh district attorney says they want life without parole yeah the district attorney also says i was looking forward to going to trial with this one i guess this is best for everyone i was gonna be so much fun i had everything i was gonna totally win that shit i wanted to say so many bad things about her fuck i wanted to feel like my cousin vinnie at the end of a trial you know he's like one yay we're all happy now yeah jerry callow you know it's great so uh her attorney sand' attorney, would not comment on the sentencing that he would like to request at this time.

Here, he doesn't think so. They are going to do a mitigation hearing, obviously, to see what the deal is. The lawyer says this is when the state will put on testimony about all the bad things my client's done and when we will put on testimony about all the good things she has done. We've just told you a whole story. Have we to many good things nothing no it's all not one terrifying thing so far here so she is being by the way do you remember that fire back in 1990 yeah yeah they're looking at that real hard now yeah the because she's mad at her husband's ex-wife ex-wives yes she threatened to kill her ex-hus husband's ex-wife. Ex-wives. Yes. She threatened to kill her ex-husband's ex-wife.

Never mind her current husband's ex-wife. Is she like a like a succubus that sucks everybody's bad energy and then just delivers it outwardly? Yes. Is she mad at the ex for the current husband? Yes. She's mad because that person was ever with her husband. that's that's my husband so why yours yeah it's she's got it that's a lot of problems here you have ever gotten hard for anybody else luckily we have a psychologist that's going to try to explain her in a little while a psychologist a psychologist with the worst name in the history

of medicine it's amazing so she's being held for sentencing, obviously, with no bail because of Jesus Christ. So they said she's basically the whole thing hinges, whether she's ever going to get parole or not, hinges on whether the court will take into account what this doctor says. That's all it is. account what this doctor says that's all it is uh during the sentencing uh jones made his brother niece son daughter-in-law all spoke there saying how wonderful they're all crying and saying how wonderful made it is the whole gallery was crying right and she's sitting there going oh no this is bad i killed a nice person yeah everybody in this room loved that person damn it why couldn't have i killed like a kid diddler or something nobody would be doing this right now there'd be nobody here uh made his brother rudy rudy ring by the way rudy ring he spoke of the horror that the family faced on the

day they learned that she disappeared and then say that the tragedy had not ended um then and say it won't end if sandra's ever be be able to get out of prison. It'll just be screwed. He said, quote, I plead with you, your honor, to give a sentence of nothing less than life in prison without a possibility of parole for this murder. Please allow our grief and rage to end. So his daughter, Wendy, spoke on her own behalf and then read a statement from Maida's sister, Judy, who was followed up by made a son david who spoke mostly about his relationship with his mother and how it's all gone and again asked for life without

parole uh then her daughter-in-law jennifer uh said that they said that she's ever made everybody cry telling the judge of finding her young son lying under her baby daughter's crib a short time ago i asked him what he was doing under there, and he told me it was his coffin because he had shot himself. And she said, you did that to my son. You took away a six-year-old's grandmother. Freaked the kid out. They showed all sorts of pictures of them all together,

and she said she's never going to do any of this stuff ever again. I mean everything. I mean, everything. She said, how do I tell my daughter someday what happened to her grandma? Why does she not have a grandma? Then she faces Sandra and said, I see you in my dreams. I see what you did to her. Screams at her. Then she asked the judge, please put her in prison for the rest of her mortal life and allow us to start remembering Maida Marie's life and forget her brutal death.

Yeah. So, I mean, heart-wrenching. Heart-wrenching, obviously. They bring in the shrink for the defense. Before we get there, do you give that person that just did all the, do you give them the credit of I see you in my nightmares? Or do you just say, after this, we forget about you, you piece of shit. You know what I mean? Well, it depends on what you're going for.

If you're going to feel like you're tough or like you have put up your skin, then that's fine. But if you want them to be put in jail forever, you have to go on the stand and be vulnerable and say, this is what you've done to me. Please put her away forever. That part would suck it does suck it does you have to go up there and say that but that's how they make you do it so they know that this i don't know why it matters whether the person this is what i don't get about these whether she's a wonderful grandmother who everybody sobs over and was wonderful or was just some piece of shit guy who ate dinty more out of a can and sat there and it doesn't matter you shot her and took her fucking head off it doesn't that's that yeah

and then fucking shot put it in the in into the river and then and then sailboated the rest of her down the creek that's crazy anybody that does that at all i feel like we can yeah we don't need to know who it's hurting or whatever you don't need to know who's having nightmares i don't need to know who sees it in the in every fucking shadow but i don't need to hear about the cloud formations yeah it doesn't matter it should just be awful so the doctor testifying yeah dr worst is his name not worst like liver worst it's w's W-O-R-S-T. Worst. Why would you do it? You want to know what his first name is, Jimmy?

The? Better. It's better than that. All right. Dr. Richard Worst. Dr. Dick Worst. Dr. Dick Worst is his name. He's got the worst dick.

Give me a Dick Worst sandwich. He's got the worst dick is he eat me i'm gonna give me a dick worst sandwich he's the worst he's got the worst dick ever he's the worst doctor dr dick the worst in elementary school it was worst dick yeah worst dick yeah he's got the worst in the phone book back in the day he'd be worst comma dick dr dick w worst oh god jesus that is the worst fucking name ever and Dick. Dr. Dick W. Worst. Oh, God. Jesus. That is the worst fucking name ever. And he's this like round-headed, bald old guy. It looks like he's got a terrible dick.

Looks terrible. Looks like his dick sucks, man. So he specializes in psychiatry. He's one of only, at the time, 566 certified forensic psychiatrists in the United States at the time. Really? He calls Sandra Jonas a, quote, she has borderline personality. It's a borderline thing. Um, steak.

Uh, he says that, uh, she fits the criteria of borderline personality disorder, a mental disorder that's extremely difficult to diagnose and work with because it's very complex and it is, it's, it's a hard one to deal with. They said that he does say borderline personalities have very low homicide rates, but high suicide rates. They usually kill themselves before they kill others. Is that, um, is what he says. I don't. He's I'm not a I'm not a one of the five hundred sixty six certified forensic psychiatrist. So I don't know if that's true.

But another point is she certainly killed somebody and she's still alive. So there you go. He said his in his opinion, he's convinced that Sandra under the right programs, care and medication is rehabilitative. We can fix it. We can fix this. He told the court that the version of the incident surrounding the murder that she related to him as he met with her for the evaluation following her arrest. The story differed greatly from the scenario constructed by the testimony of Andra. OK. Andra, who assisted her in his testimony dr worst established that sandra struggles with interpersonal relationships

drinks excessively again doesn't trust law enforcement or others unhealthy inability to get rid of her father's let go of her father's death often carries a weapon but noon to known to shoot neighbors' animals, and made prior threats to everyone around her. Dangerous. Yes. Dangerous person is what he said, but totally fixable is what he said. I can correct all of it.

I'll fix it all. He said that Sandra has a, quote, pervasive, longstanding pattern of difficulties in interpersonal relationships. He said she dwells on incidents of rejection, loss, or victimization. Because of such fears, people become impulsive, self-defeating, and will sabotage relationships with those they love the most. He said she has a history of significant loss that goes with borderlines. To a large degree, she's never gotten over that.

He said he maintained the loss of her father, with whom she was very close, had a tremendous influence on her need to provide herself with a father figure, which she had done with Milo. He said this, he plugged it right in. He said, I think Milo in some ways did represent her father. Yeah, that makes sense um and she said he said because of the borderline personality's ability to dissociate feelings that's how she was able to cut a person's head off and not have a problem with it because she's defending her own because i guess so in her mind yeah this is justified in her mind it's like being at war it's the same thing. Justified. You're taking my father. Yeah, exactly. So don't take my daddy. Like, oh, hey, calm down.

They are. Worst also says Jonas doesn't remember, according to her, doesn't remember feeling or thinking anything immediately after the crime and that any self-reflection on her feelings is, quote, more like speculation than actual memory. No, because her daughter said that it's no worse than killing a cat. Yeah, she got in and went, no big deal. They'll never find her. Even if they do, they won't be able to identify her. No harder than killing cats. Let's go through the Dairy Queen now.

What do you say? He's wrong. It's wild. So according to Wurst, Jonas told him that both Jonas, both Sandra and Maida went for the gun that was lying on the table. Why would she take her gun out and put it on the table? You keep it. If you're in an argument with someone, you keep the upper hand, especially her.

She's in the army. She knows not to put her gun down. And she loves control. That's the other thing. That's why she had the gun. She said the gun went off and she heard Jones' fault. Went off just, you know, while they were struggling for it. She thinks she stooped down to take a look at Jones when she put her hands on her knees and then the gun fired a second bullet.

Oh, it just went off twice? It went off. How hot was it in there? A while. Well, what's going on there? Just taking a look-see over. She also said that that one went into her neck which is it's back of the head and cheek so we know that's not true the prosecuting attorney

contended that nowhere in the video testimony with andrea uh did she admit to did she admit her mother told her the shooting was accidental she's never said that she said it was easier than killing cats right so uh she had andrea had maintained that her mother said she did it because why'd you do it at that exact moment though? I know it was easy. Why quote, because she pissed her off. The same thing with Arkansas last year.

That's last week. If a girl killed her father, same exact thing. He pissed me off. Just piss me off. You can't do that. That's not a good enough idea or a good enough reason. So, Andra had told Detective Chatterton that her mother told her after the incident, then she fired the second shot.

She did that because Maida was making sounds. That's why she told her. So, why'd you shoot her twice? She said, oh, she wasn't fucking dead yet. She was loud. She was still struggling. I like quiet. I like quiet.

I don't like all that gurgling yeah uh they said no clothing or jewelry was found on made his naked torso when it was retrieved from the canal jones uh they said that sandra couldn't touch her couldn't bring herself to touch the body according to the psychiatrist that's what he that's what she told him and had to pull jonas by her clothing which resulted in inadvertently pulling her clothing off. She said, I didn't strip her. I pulled her down to the canal by her clothes, and they all just fell off while I was doing that. You know how clothes are.

She had them on real loose-like, so they were just – she shed like a snake. Did I mention they're all tearaway? She strips in the evening, so she has all tearaway clothes. They pull right off of her. Well, her daughter watched her not only strip her nude, but then saw her head off her nude body. So she's full of shit here. The prosecutor asked the doctor here if it didn't make sense to distance oneself from the body by pushing it into the river. And he said it would be much easier to roll or kick a body

into the river than to try to pull it by the clothes right yeah um so the doctor went on to say because milo ross served as a father figure sandra reacted to uh that and that's what happened he said she could be rehabilitated over time as long as milo was out of the picture right because she's always going to have this obsession with him. But she'll find someone else to be obsessed with. That's the thing. It doesn't matter. She would threaten to kill the ex-husband and his ex-wife.

She's got kids with Milo, so he's never out of the picture. And she may or may not have burned a woman's fucking house down and killed people. We don't know. I don't know. The cops are still like, we don't have any evidence because they didn't do a full investigation at the time, but we're terrified of that.

Like, that seems right up her alley. Far too easy. Yeah. They also asked the doctor if he thought that Sandra would be at risk to hurt someone again if she had a gun. And Worst replied, I don't think so. Let's give her five guns. Fuck it. What do you want, an AR, sweetheart?

Let's get you something big. How much is he paid to say this shit holy shit he said quote i was impressed with the fact that she carried a gun for 20 years and hadn't used it well yeah that's great terrific um wow worse said that gradual treatment of jonas's drinking problem and mental disorders would rehabilitate jonas and that the process would have to be done very carefully he said we wouldn't let her out until we saw her compliance with treatment and her response. Uh, worse said, although we admitted we don't get absolute assurance, she'll never touch alcohol again. Exactly. How do we ever know? Right. Then he laid down the

hammer though, cause he's under oath. So he says says this it was brought out during testimony that while she was doing these evaluations with him she said about her son paul this is gross that she would rather see her son with a bullet in his head than have him serve a two-year mission for that church she she would kill that boy she'd rather him be dead than do that. Which means, who knows? That's the other thing, though, is that's not for you to decide. Yep. That's his life. They're asking for parole possibilities.

Prosecution's asking for no parole. So the judge is going to weigh in, and let's find out what he says. He's got a little bit of a speech, so this will be good. I love a good you, ma'am, here. So Sandra Jones has been presented to this court as a woman with a borderline personality disorder. The essential feature of borderline personality disorder is a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affect marked by an impulsivity that

begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts. Probation, in my opinion, is not an option. I'm nervous about parole. In other words, you can't just let her go, and I'm even nervous about parole. It is clear as a matter of sentencing policy in Idaho that the primary consideration is the good order and protection of society, and all other factors must be subservient to that end. I think she is presently dangerous.

I think she needs treatment. I think her personality type functions best in a structured environment like the army. You know what I mean? This is a homicide. It carries the second greatest punishment the law allows, which is life in prison. A lesser sentence would depreciate the seriousness of the defendant's crime, is what's said. Her punishment must fit the crime. Imprisonment is needed to deter her from doing this again she has killed an individual in my opinion with little or no provocation none zero mayda never even talked

to her right no provocation i feel that the slap on the wrist for the murder might encourage homicides well yeah if you don't you can't just go well it's fine to kill people you were a little upset and you were drinking jesus yeah i understand totally we're gonna light on this since it's the first first offense how often are people angry and drunk imagine if they were just allowed to kill people because of those factors there'd be nobody left it'd be fucking could be bedlam out there so he said you never know how many lives are saved because punishments are harsh the punishment for such serious crimes need to be equally serious. I find little or at least no provocation for the life-ending projectile shot from the gun of Sandra Jones.

I do not find that Ms. Jones' conduct induced or facilitated the commission of this crime. She didn't bring it on herself. or facilitated the commission of this crime. She didn't bring it on herself. She wasn't going out fucking in front of a Hell's Angel bar going, you fucking pussies, giving them double fingers, kicking their line of motorcycles over or anything. She wasn't asking for shit.

So although she's expressed statements that she is sorry and wished this would have never happened, she also expressed statements that Maida Jones pissed her off and that somehow killing her in some way compares to killing cats. Coming back to Haunter. She needs significant time for such treatment. And even then, her rehabilitation is not assured. We are told that even if she makes significant gains in the state penitentiary, upon her release, alcohol abuse can interfere and even destroy those gains. Oh, yeah.

On her release, alcohol abuse can interfere and even destroy those gains. Oh, yeah. We are also told that a person with borderline personality disorders resists alcohol abuse therapy. Is this a gamble that I'm willing to take on behalf of society? No. Hell no. You, ma'am, may fuck off life in prison without the possibility of parole for 25 years. So at least 25 in prison.

Okay. At least 25. 25 guaranteed. 25 guaranteed. Then she's up for, she can get parole after that. So at least a hard 25. Yeah. Okay. Andra, her sentencing.

Oh, God. She accepts a plea deal, like we said. She pleads guilty as a juvenile to accessory to murder. They let her plead as a juvenile, which is a huge deal as well. Huge deal. That means it'll be sealed and all that shit. It won't count against her. But she also, they're trying to get her out, basically.

They don't want her to be in jail. Don't have a certain time, yeah. She got sentenced to some jail time time but they're trying to fight it she's out on bail while they're fighting it here and attorneys and the judge hashed out the details of this agreement here um her father is in court with her milo standing next to her holding her hand and he tells the judge that he and his family are willing to do whatever it takes to keep andra out of prison basically on track out of trouble i'll of trouble. I'll sit with her in class and then drive her home if I have to.

I'll do anything I have to do. So she is standing there. She's crying. The prosecutors said they're willing to accept a 180-day sentence, but with all but 30 days suspended. So just a month and credit for time served as well. Oh, that's nice nice so they sentence her

um she is now this will allow a psychologist basically they move her to a full security section of the juvenile detention center to do a two-week assessment from a psychologist before they officially do the do the whole thing just to make sure that she will be uh ready to move back with her family and go to school and be OK with that. Her friends, they talked to a bunch of her friends. The newspaper does. And they said her one friend said on the they still have on the technology building is all the unfinished pieces of her coffee table. They saved it for.

Wow. They said it's her senior project and it's left over and they want her to come back and do it. Her class all warped. It's going to be all fucked up now. It's going to be all fucked out. So, yeah, they tell one teacher said, quote, I would take her back in class in a heartbeat. That's her woodshop teacher.

He says he thinks 99% of the students at every high school are good kids who will one day grow up to be good adults, and he thought that Ross Andra was was definitely one of those 99 of good kids they said the principal dan rogers said we never took her off the school roll we kept her registered and we would welcome her back anytime she's done she's gonna be a 19th year senior yeah he said she's got she's got some good friends here they said she said uh when he heard how quickly she could be released, she was, he said he was surprised,

but happy to have her back. And the shop teacher said, quote, she has a coffee table to finish. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,

yeah. So they decide that, uh, out of all this, she's going to plead guilty. She's going to get time served. Wow. And she's released on super bought a supervised probation.

So she gets to go back and have a life. It's not her fault. No. Sometimes people get their kids involved, and the kid's like, hey, let's cut her head off or something. But this poor kid didn't know what she was doing. Sounds like she was screaming,

let's not do this the whole time. Yeah. Absolutely. The fucked up part is when they interview Paul, Paul said, you don't know our mother, and you don't know how she is. I would have done it too, he said.

Oh, wow. He said, I don't blame my sister because if I was in that situation, I would have done the same thing. I would have fucking listened to my mother because I would have been terrified she would shoot me otherwise.

Because who knows what mom will do to me? She just said that she'd rather see me dead than on a mission in England. And she's threatened to kill everyone in the family before. And she just killed this lady. And she just killed this this what she got to lose one two bodies in the canal fuck it so one year after the murder milo ross speaks finally he had been quiet this whole time um this is wild you're not going to believe some of this shit it's it's less than a year later he's living in the house still what with his new wife what he somehow found and married a woman while taking his kid to court yeah going to

do all this shit try how the fuck did he have time to find court and get engaged to and marry a woman in this time period? How did he do this? You don't understand. This man detaches better than anybody I've ever heard of. As soon as their relationship is on the rocks, he is finding another one, boy. That's incredible. Good for him. That man has won at therapy.

Whatever he's doing, he's thriving. Hey, good for him. He didn't do anything to cause Maida to be killed, so he's just trying to find somebody to move on with. He heals like a starfish. Jesus. Fucking Milo, man. Wow. Guy is a pimp.

So he's a bad motherfucker. Yeah. So he said that he still lives in the house, and so does Andra. What? Yep, she lives there, too. He said, quote, I wasn wasn't gonna run away from it so he wasn't gonna run away from the place that this happened at you could buy a new house though just sell that house get everyone there's a difference between running away and not particularly wanting to be where your loved one lost their life you want to walk by the

fucking wall where the bullet hole was every time and be like, that's where the bullet that went through my wife's head and took her brains out went into my wall. I don't want to see that every fucking time. Although the Arbud Wire gunshot hole is still there. That's true. But that's nobody's mother, I guess. The kids don't have to look through it. Somebody's father. But they don't work at the building.

They don't live in the building. Fucking crazy. So he said, yeah, he wasn't gonna run away he remarried he remarried by the way like very quickly yeah like extremely quickly he was married that was in october he was married by the summer wow he was married like within eight months that's a man that hates dry dick hates it he he that's what i mean he's got to get it and get married so he can get fucking he is a horny mormon this thing's gotta get wet and sticky it has to take it he's willing to marry you that's the thing he's not trying to scam anybody he'll put a ring on your finger don't you worry about that somebody else might cut it off but i'll put it on on your finger. Don't you worry about that. Somebody else might cut it off, but I'll put it on there. Wow.

He says that his daughter has completed probation now, and she still suffers mentally and physically, though, from the whole thing. Yeah. And he says when he prays, he keeps Maeda in his prayers. He said, I know there is no reason you can ask why. What happened? What happened? All I can do is go on. Is ask why. What happened? What happened? All I can do is go on.

Is that a haiku? Sounds like a haiku. I think it's a haiku. That man hates a dry deck. So it's after this where Sandra changes her mind. Maybe I don't want to plead guilty. Oh? Maybe I changed my mind.

Pleading guilty seems like an awful- Take it to trial? She said, I'm going to withdraw my guilty plea, okay? Let's do that. And the judge said said you can't do that you're already sentenced you're dumb ass you're done this is she sat in prison going well this sucks can i try to get out no decided to do a different thing here so she does all of that she wants a reduced sentence also oh it really sucks in there. Now she wants a reduced sentence. She's like, 25 is too long. It should be like 10 or 15.

So she's in jail less than two years and she's already trying to get a reduced sentence. Hilarious. Her public defender, Marilyn Paul, said that she's made good use of her time since being incarcerated. Oh, well, let's let her out then. I'm sure she's great. They told the judge here that Jonas has completed an initial computer course and got an A in it. Oh, that's great. She'd like to pursue a drafting career.

Terrific. You got about 23 more years to work on that, and then you can really be good at it by the time you get out. I want to get out of here and be an architect. You'll be great at it by the time you get out. It said she's currently taking several classes and getting good grades in all of them. Well, that's great. If she was 12, we'd be really excited. Keep going. You'll have a 25 year degree in it by the time you get out.

Wow, you're going to have like eight degrees. That's a lot. You can get a bunch in there. The public defender also said that with all the testing and sessions with psychologists that Sandra went through for sentencing, it'd be much easier now to monitor her emotional and mental problems with the right medications and regular doctor visits. It's better to monitor her the way she is.

We can look right through the bars and see where she is. Let's give her another shot. You know what? I want to roll the dice on this one. Let's roll the dice on that. I have a good feeling about this. I have a feeling even though she's threatened everyone that's ever been near her, including her mother and children, I feel like she's going to clean it right up. I've got a good feeling about this.

So the prosecutor steps in with some sanity and says, quote, this case involved murder and mutilation of a helpless victim. Even worse, she involved her teenage daughter. Right. The effect this case has had on Metta Marie Jones' family and friends is like the effect you'd get by throwing a rock into a pond. The violence has such a rippling effect on the family, a lifelong effect. This is one of the most heinous murders we've ever seen. I certainly ask the court not to alter sentence in any way, shape, or form. Why are we even talking about this?

This is ridiculous. And the judge says, yeah, that's a much better argument. Great point. She got an A in her drafting class. is ridiculous and the judge says yeah that is a that's a much better argument great point she got an a in her drafting class she cut a person's head off we can keep an eye on her through the bars oh so then she's being sued by milo for restitution for fucking up his house and killing his fiancee for real he requested over twelve thousand five hundred dollars in restitution yeah and the oh but according to her lawyer the only amount of restitution that should be owed to milo is 271.94 for materials used for repairs to the home where the crime occurred they patched

up the drywall fix the phone so that's all you need okay whoa uh they said there's no specific documentation introduced for the other claims and aside from physical repairs from to the house ross is not a victim they say they killed his fiancee in his house and made his teenage daughter fucking clean it up he's not a victim not a victim at all nope he'll be fine wow that's wild. Ross had asked for restitution to cover medical bills incurred by Andra Ross, daughter's medical bills, and following the incident. And for $2,000, it cost him to attain an attorney to represent him and his son, Paul, when Shirley's attorney wanted to talk to them. He had to have an attorney, too. Paul, the son, or no, this is, I'm sorry, that's also the last name of her lawyer, Paul. Paul said that Ross initiated the claims for treatment for his daughter and the attorney's bill,

and he said, we don't believe Ross is entitled to recover that amount. She also said the daughter, Andrew Ross, is not a victim. In fact, she was charged in the murder. She's an accomplice, not a victim. Yeah, that's wild. Over $1,000 in medical bills incurred by Jerome County while Jonas Sandra was in custody should not be included in the restitution, they said also, and that Jerome County is not a victim in this matter, and there are civil avenues for the county to pursue its claims. The county is also requesting repayment of over $50,000 in defense fees. Wow. Lawyers are such000 in defense fees. Wow. Lawyers are such dicks, man.

Wow. That's the county that's doing that. The lawyer, Paul, said it's also inappropriate to include these in restitution. The prosecutor said there are several claims that Milo Ross could have included for his request, including engagement ring, which he bought for Jones just days before she was murdered that she stole and broke. Could have put that in there. And they said that Ross was too humble to ask for that, though. He's doing you a solid by only asking for 12.

Just cough it up. Fucking give him his money. He also said that Sandra is still racking up defense costs and none of them are included in that restitution amount. Quote, she's getting a good deal no matter how you look at it is what the prosecutor said that's fucking hilarious he said if there's anything should happen today the court should increase the restitution to milo ross he's a victim the crime happened in his house to his fiancee yeah that's a fucking victim here so they said the final defense bill uh it comes out in the end her restitution she has to pay for her defense, will probably be paid off by the State Association of Counties.

In the end, it will be less than $100 that Sandra has to pay herself. Wow. Less than $100. The association is in charge of the Idaho Capital Crimes Defense Program, a pool of money set up to help counties cover the cost of defending suspects facing the death penalty. Because if you're going to have those, you have to have a way for them to. You have to be able to. Totally.

So they said the board is charged with overseeing the defense fund, and they're going to approve this payment. So there you go. 2005, Paul, the son Paul. How's he doing? I mean, this is. His mother's. Well, now 2005, he's getting married Paul. How's he doing? I mean, this is his mother's. Well, now, 2005, he's getting married.

Big announcement in the paper. He's got a pretty wife here. He married a woman named Amanda. They're announcing their engagement. They're very excited. Ross graduated from high school, went to England for the mission, then received a bachelor's degree in law and constitutional studies from USU. He works for Senator Smith of Oregon in Washington, D.C., and intends to earn a jurist doctorate from the University of Virginia Law School.

Wow. They're going to live in D.C. where he will work while she attends school in Baltimore. Then they're going to move to Charlottesville, hopefully. Oh, Christ. It's not March anywhere. So they said they're going to do that where he's going to attend law school. Kid's going to be a lawyer.

He is now, a days, a bankruptcy and criminal attorney. Look at that. There's a LinkedIn forum here. It says founding lawyer. I'll give you his stats because he went through some shit. Founding lawyer Paul N.J. Ross has dedicated his legal career to helping individuals throughout southern Idaho find effective debt relief through Chapter 7, 11, 12, and 13 bankruptcies. He gained bankruptcy law experience in Oklahoma where he practiced under limited license while attending law school.

Since that time, he's been admitted to the Idaho State Bar and the Utah State Bar. He practices in Idaho and Utah State Courts. He's doing fucking great. He's a founding partner? Is that what he is? Something, yeah. Somebody here. He's got that.

He's a member of the American Bankruptcy Institute, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, and involved in various community organizations, including the Boy Scouts of America. Doing great. They're all in there. So December 2017, Sandra files a petition to vacate her conviction. Let's just start over. I feel like we've been.

Let's start over. This is ridiculous. She does. She actually says she says that she wants to vacate the conviction and sentence. It's entered in an underlying criminal matter for the return of certain property. OK. The court treated the petition as a petition for post-conviction relief and notified the petitioner that she failed to meet the requirements of Idaho because the matter was not being treated as an action in post-conviction relief, but rather a separate civil claim against the state of Idaho. action in post-conviction relief, but rather a separate civil claim against the state of Idaho. She was not entitled to appointment

of counsel, was required to pay filing fees, which she had not done, and properly served the state, which she also hasn't done. She's trying to sue the state for the restitution thing in a civil way, in civil court. She can't, you can only get a lawyer for criminal proceedings

on this. You can't. She'd have to pay for her own lawyer. You can't get a free lawyer to sue on this you can't have to yeah you can't get yeah you can't get a free lawyer to sue people right especially not the fucking state and she has to pay the filing fee she has to pay to have a person serve which is i used to do they gotta pay a process server someone has to put gas in their car and drive to someone's house and hand them a fucking piece of paper and all that so for those reasons the district court denied her motion for appointment of counsel denied default and dismissed her petition and told her to keep fucking keep on fucking on. Miss, get out of here.

Paul, by the way, there's a thing online where Paul visited his would be stepmother's grave. And he's a good kid. This Paul and Andrew, they both seem like I don't know about her now, but Paul seems like a real nice kid. He said, I recently took a about her now, but Paul seems like a real nice kid. He said, I recently took a trip to American falls for work. After I completed the appointment, I stopped at the American fall cemetery to pay my respects. Mater was born 2nd of July,

1952 in American falls power, Idaho, and died 25th, October, 1998, uh, near Kasota, Jerome,

Idaho, 17 years ago today, my mother, Sandy Jonas, took the life of Maida Marie Rigg Rupp Jones. That day obviously changed Maida's life, but it also changed the lives of everyone else even distantly linked. I dare not say how different life would be

if mom had not taken those actions. I frankly have no idea how life would be. I can only imagine. Some would likely be very welcome. Others likely not. I am not the judge in the eternal scheme. I'm not God, is what he said there. I do not know the outcome. All I know is that events come in life that rock us to the core. This was one such occasion for many people. The ripples likely flow throughout eternity, positive and negative. That's ballsy. What a nice guy to go there yeah my mother's did this and it was

wrong and you know i wish she wouldn't have um so then she appeals her dismissal of her post now she's got post-conviction shit as well yeah and um she argues that the state was required to specifically identify each of her claims and give reasons why each should be summarily dismissed in her last appeal. And they said, no, we did plenty for you. Listen, yeah, they said that we consider Jonas's

argument that she raised genuine issues of material fact, that she received ineffective assistance of counsel, and that her guilty plea was involuntary. What she's saying here is that she got blindsided by her attorney who just showed up and was shoving life sentence without parole in her face saying, you got to do it or you're going to get the death penalty. And she didn't know what to do.

And therefore, he's assisted ineffective assistance of counsel. Well, he told her the facts. And, you know, not for nothing, but that's true you know what i mean yeah you you gotta take something because you're gonna die you did this you got a witness it sounds bad she's gonna get up on the stand and describe watching you saw a woman's head off and she is your daughter yes and then this other lady is a nice lady with everyone in town's gonna say what a great lady she is what do you think think they're going to do to you? You have no chance.

Fucking no chance at all. So they said that the defendant was convicted upon a guilty plea to satisfy the prejudiced element. The claimant must show that there's a reasonable probability that but for counsel's errors, he or she would not have pled guilty and would have instead insisted on going to trial. So they said that didn't happen at all. This court long adhered to the proposition that tactical or strategic decisions of the trial counsel will not be second-guessed on appeal unless those decisions are based on inadequate preparation, ignorance of relevant law, or other shortcomings capable of objective evaluation. In other words, if a lawyer makes a decision that doesn't pan out, that's a strategy, you can't say they're ineffective for that.

Only if they didn't know, they forgot to file something, they didn't know what to file, they filed the wrong thing, they argued against the law, something that didn't work out but you can't just say that you know i didn't like the strategy they took because you could have got them to do a different strategy otherwise it's your case you could have you can ask the judge yeah to make them do what you want them to do literally otherwise judge doesn't want a lawyer getting fired midstream so if you tell the judge they're not doing what i want they'll take you in chambers and say, you got to listen to your client. That's what happens. So she is currently incarcerated at the Idaho's Pocatello Women's Correctional Center. She is 66 years old. What?

And you know when she'll be eligible for parole, Jimmy? 20 next year. November of this year. Oh, my God. About three months from now. About three months from now. I bet she does. She did 25. She did 25 hard. She's going to go in there saying she loves Jesus

and wants to do drafting and they're going to fucking let her out. She's 66 and they're going to let her go. She's going to come in there cross-stitching something. Like doing some knitting or something. I'm just a grandma. I wouldn't put anything past her. I'll definitely keep an eye on this. I wouldn't put – I'll definitely keep an eye on her.

She could be later on – That's a dangerous woman. She's dangerous. Now, the detective, by the way, Chatterton. Remember I said I'd bring him back up? I still want to know if she killed fucking Vicky's family, too. That'd be great to know. I'd love to know that.

The cops said they'd love to know, too. This police detective files claims against the sheriff's department, the sheriff's department, the county, all these people here. I guess. Yeah. Daniel Chatterton is seeking $823,730. And what he contends are lost wages, benefits, promotions, and other damages. What does that mean? What'd they do?

What's that? Like 40 years of being a cop or something? That's a long time. Why do they hate you? According to state law law a county or other agency has 90 days to either approve or deny a claim uh they said chatterton's tort claim names as defendants jerome county sheriff jim weaver the jerome county commission and its members as well as jerome city council and its members and also named the jerome city manager and all everyone in jerome it claims based on the contention that

in 2000 um johnson in 2000 who was the one of those people in their county commissioner i think here um that made an unfounded allegation against chatterton and that weaver and others named and promoted named promoted and investigated that allegation until July of this year. Chatterton was an investigator, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, they're basically saying he got hung up on some shit. They said that messages for Weaver. Chatterton was a Twins Falls police officer in 92 when Roland Galvin of Twins Falls accused Chatterton of using excessive force while arresting him. But a jury later cleared Chatterton of any wrongdoing,

citing harassment and isolation by his superiors and others at the department. In the wake of that case, he later sued the department in the city of Twin Falls. It was settled for $35,000. He went to work for the Jerome County Sheriff's Department in 93. That was where he was working when this case happened and was involved in some high-profile cases.

They name off Metta Marie here. And so he's trying to recover some lost money. And that, everybody, is Hazleton, Idaho. My God. What a crazy fucking story. What the fuck? Yeah, that woman. Wow.

I mean, that's one of those 66 or not. That's the most dangerous woman on the planet. She's dangerous. There's a lot of people that we talk about where we're like, I don't care if they're 80. I don't want this person out. And she's one of them where I feel like she's good right where she is. They're usually men. They are most of the time.

Yeah, they're always men that are in that situation. She's as dangerous as any dude with horns and dermal piercings and elephant ears she is a dangerous man I'd like to hear from the turkey from the turkey gallery out there what you guys think gobble this shit up a little bit and tell us what's up because I am scared shitless

of this woman you don't get women who like that's like the snapping of like a she holds a grudge that's not even snapping for years that's what i mean she held a grudge for years she threatened to kill her ex-husband's ex-wife right after they were divorced and everyone was divorced that's wild she's a dangerous someone else for sure yeah that is terrifying so jesus christ if you have any ideas about this or

you just like the show and you want to do something good for us, do something. Do this. It's free. It's easy. Takes 30 seconds. You sign into your app and you do it. Give us a review. Leave a review. Whatever app you're listening on. Audible, Apple Podcast, this one, that one. Leave five stars. Even just say, gobble, gobble, turkeys here. Just leave a weird

turkey call. That'd be great. Just let us know that the turkeys are out there and do that. It helps drive the show up the charts. helps immensely so thank you when you do that it really does also you certainly want to head over to shut up and give me murder.com for several reasons first of all tickets to regular live shows september 8th in atlanta september 9th in charlotte we got a show in philly with a couple tickets left i believe in october and then we are in dallas on december 2nd some tickets left there everything else is in October. And then we are in Dallas on December 2nd. Some tickets left there. Everything else is sold out.

So get in and get your tickets right now. Those are available right now. And September 1st, tickets for the Halloween virtual live show are coming. We're so excited. We did one last year, and it was a huge – everyone loved it because we put costumes on, and we're going to do a crazy Halloween-type story. So come party with us again. It'll be available for that whole week tickets go on sale september 1st yeah so get them they're coming out very soon here you just go to shut up and give me murder.com slash virtual live

and you can find it on there and we're very excited for that we can't wait and another exciting announcement yeah your stupid opinions will be public to everyone and able to listen to. It's coming out September 18th. Can't wait. Monday morning. We can't wait. We're going to do it every Monday morning. We're very excited to put it out.

Your stupid opinions where we're going to talk about reviews of everything place person you can imagine. It's about goddamn time. And listen to crazy people rant just into a fucking vacuum and no one cares. Ranting into a void. No one gives a shit. Fantastic. So do that. You also certainly want to be a Patreon member. That's big time.

Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of your bonus episodes and you go what the hell's crime in sports? That's our other podcast that you should also be listening to. We started that before we even started Small Town Murder and it's crazy. You don't have to like sports. You just have to

like comedy and check it out. So check out Crime in Sports. It's about idiot criminal athletes. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you get all the bonus materials, whole big back catalog to listen to. It's five bucks a month. Anybody five bucks a month or above, you can get a cup of coffee or tons of shit to listen to you gets five bucks a month anybody five bucks a month or above you can get a cup of coffee or tons of shit to listen to i'm talking 200 plus bonus episodes

to catch up on and binge on only available on patreon and then new ones every other week we keep coming with these and this week is no different what you're going to get is for crime and sports which you'll have access to we're going to talk about famous people who like to do celebrity boxing for some reason and celebrity fights. And well, with the whole thing with the two, you know, the fucking two social media. I'm going to mention their names. Fucking what I say back and forth. Who started all this shit? So we'll talk about some history, some dumbness and some idiocy.

And maybe we'll dip a little into like foxy boxing and that weird shit too. Put chicks in bikinis and big giant boxing gloves in there and beat each other up. That's weird too. People that don't fight fighting. And then for small town murder, a very weird one, but trust me, one you want to hear. Victorian household dangers. Great. These are late 1800s things that would kill you in your own house,

including everything that you owned had strychnine in it that you're supposed to ingest. Not only that, but there was a major problem with tons of people exploding in their bathrooms. Literally explosive Victorian bathrooms. We're going to talk about you think you have diarrhea. Wait till you hear about these bathrooms. Let me tell you, that's explosive. We'll talk about all that and more. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Follow us on social media as well. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram and threads at Murder Small on Twitter at Small Town Pod on Facebook. So get in there. Follow us all over the place. Get your updates. Keep that coming. And definitely get ready for your shout outs because Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people who would never hold a grudge long after we were all divorced and remarried again. Hit me with those names right fucking now. This week's executive producers are Lily Cussins, Brianna Vandemark, Kyle Norweg,

thanks Kyle, Jewel Sherrington, congratulations on being engaged Jewel, Lisa knew. Oh, look at you. Lisa knew she'd marry that fucker.

That's what she said. Lisa said it. Congrats. She called it. Good for you Lisa. Mario DiCic that fucker. That's what she said. Lisa said it. Well, congrats. She called it. Good for you, Lisa. Mario DiCiccio, Susanna Platt. She said that about 14 other guys first, though. Lisa don't know shit.

Don't tell him. Brad Sewell, happy birthday, Brad. Good for you. Happy birthday. Other producers this week are Ogie Oglethorpe and Clarence Scrimming of Buffalo Swamp Town. Some slap shot shit. She eats pussy. She eats pussy.

You feel shame and then you get free. Sorry, go ahead. Thomas Smith, Peyton Meadows, Amanda Bouchenshine, Bouchenhane, Bouchenshine. Rabbi Shmuelovich and his new tricycle, Norman Bunce, Mutt and Jeff. Is that a cartoon, right?

Is that all? Yeah. I remember that one. Mikey in Connecticut. Mikey, good for you, buddy. Mikey! Stick with it. Ian Elliott, Dale Crawford, Josh Grande.

Grande, yep. Big old Josh. Josh, Jeff, Jeff Padgett, Elvira S., Chris DeWaters, Candace Ewert-Braden, Braden Phillips, Rosemary Goler, I don't know, Danielle Shepard, Holy T, Hello T-Rex, Hello T-Rex, all right. Braden with no last name, Michael Andronauts, Andronowitz, Andronowitz, all right. Sharon Sherrod, Sherrod Allen, Glenn Walters, Dr. Joshua C. Poole, Joanne Kent, Alice C., Chris Watney, Ashley, Ashley Palmer, Brandy with no last name, Laura Lason, Zach Tate, Kevin Rosenberger, Moisty McMoistface, Charlene Palmer, Dr. Vader, Laura Black, Jackson Maddox, Jacob Barnes, Heather Montague. Yep. Yeah.

What was the other one? Montague's and what? Plagues? What were they? I don't know. All right. It's from fucking Shakespeare, isn't it? Montague?

Montague and Capulets. Capulets. Capulets. Preston Redden, Jennifer Randall, Joshua Fields, Josh Shackelford, Jess with no last name, Haley Wilson, Jason Gully, Shanna with no last name, Tamika Pendergraft, Dalton Stanky, Stonky, Stonky, all right. Astros, 1722 Jennifer Johnson, Emmett Hortath Alicia Mason Brandon Lung, Lung maybe? Tatum, Tatum Thompson

Rachel, oh boy Bianucci, Bianucci Bianucci! Leslie Bianucci! It feels like the song that, what's this fuck saying? You know what I'm talking about?

David Cross. Oh, yeah. Feels like a word. I'm gonna eat. I'm gonna eat. Be a noochie. Be a noochie. Be a noochie.

Be a noochie. Leslie Dorn. Adam. Christ. God damn it. Adam Kane. Brenda Brockway. Kate with no last name.

Fran Dingle. Heidi Gager. Daisy G. John Fisher. Carson with no last name. Don Garrison, Sia Kenyon, Shanna Wright, Josh Green, Jason Green, God damn it, Claire McMahon, Brian, Brian Papa Grubb, Grubb, Grubb, Jenna Lemke, I was on a roll, Christina Marrera, Lindy Devante, Quentin McElroy, nope, that's Elmer. Oh, it's Quentin Elmore, Kay Reynolds, Rivas, John Monack, Trent Johnston, James Lowe, Amy Keim, Jessica Willows, Tristan Donovan, Catherine Stain, Kelsey Simmons, Megan Thompson, Victoria McKenzie, Logan Rash, Jennifer Tessier, Jeremy McDonald, Garrett. Oh, fuck.

Kemlaus. There's no way. Fuck. Sorry, Garrett. Lori Hill. Melanie. David DeCant. Amanda Grace.

No, he can. David DeCant. He absolutely can. You certainly can can i believe in you david kristin rummery uh becca yeah yeah yeah man's uh yeemans yeah man uh katie katie meyer dagger uh carla dawson kristin castro mary almquist dixon cunts are you proud of yourself you dirty fuck uh daniel carlson, Shakey, Shacky, Shake probably. Degousey, that's probably

a fucking typo, I apologize. Jessica Wright, Matthew Lindley, nobody's named Shake, right? Maybe there is. Brandon Legassi, Legassi, Legassi. Big Ben, never touched those women. You're out of your fucking mind where there's smoke, there's fire. Mike with no last name, Nisha G,

Daniel 23, Perry Johnson. Amelia Kelly. Rachel Mark. Felicia. Dave's sister from another mother. Liam Curtis Moore. Madison Consolato. It's gotta be Consolato. The death of Jimmy. It's fucking ridiculous.

Lisbit. Lisbit? Nice. Lisbit? Nice. Maybe a little bit.isten uh canara jay man's uh cassidy rondell maul maul maul mooly oh can't say that mitchell definitely mr mitchell mrs mitchell i don't know ah well i want to die m-o-u-l-i what is that i get it i get it i get why you said it i know you showed it but i'm like oh no sue saddlemeyer all right jack with no last name colleen with no last name hope a stacy turner delphor mallory mallory delphor with no last name taylor howard marcus gines gines gines uh nicole Howard, Marcus Gines, Nicole Slocan, I think so, Cam Anderson, Carrie Anderson, Tessa Rodriguez,

Drake, the only one. Nope, there's several of you. Sarah Terry, Allie Ann, Dennis Quinn, Gretchen Stahl, Xavier Reed, Kristen Christina, Lam, Shelly Radecki, Robert Nelson, Elias, Elias Nipples. What? All right. Kyle O'Rourke, Nathan Thompson, Cassandra Lee, SCRBMK11. No way except for spelling it.

Lindsey Carr, Crystal Munoz, Topher Fisher, Thomas Crisp, Kayleen, Kayleen G, Ed Carrick, Brenda Davey, Dan Jeter, Michelle with no last name, Catherine with no last name, Tommy, nope, that's Tanya, Gulling, Alexis Stinson, Amy Kimbrough, Sean O'Leary, Cynthia Kramer, Stephen Watts, Emma with no last name, Jennifer Buell, Waylon with no last name, Maslin Mueller, Matthew McDonald, Cassandra with no last name, Joshua Wayne Warren, Sarah Taylor, Maddie Lee, Joe Smith, Rebecca Nicole, Charlotte Lindsay, Emily with no last name, William Smalley, Tara Claghorn, Jeff Niffer, Alexandra Chico, Space Mouse, Mara Fields, Luke Bozovsky, Mike Powell, Tessa Reza, Reza, Reza, Reza, no fucking way. Reza Kamal, Reza, oh, I'm not saying that.

You want to say it again, Joe? Not doing it. Good God. The bait is there. The trap is set. Carissa Rowell, I think, Maureen Marshall, Tyler Hartwig. How are there two and one? Raquel with no last name. Scott? Rock Rock Hill with no last name.

Scott Houts. Brady would no last name. Bonnie Gadiant. Barb Wiley. Tim Varela. Heather Raja. Rabbit Chow. Rabbit Chow.

Steer 86. Regina Gar. Ellen McCormick. Terry Hunter. Aaron Berthold. Berthold. Sarah George. Patrick Pickett

Victoria with no last name, McCash with no last name Tracy Bartkowski Jamie with no last name, Kristen Emerson Aaron Johnson, Kevin Demeter Amy D with no last name just the letter D, Lynn Stadler Samantha with no last name, Jessica Richards Matthew Anderson

Jackie Butler and every fucking patron of this show. You're incredible. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. From the bottom of our hearts, we goddamn appreciate what you do for us every day. And we just can't thank you enough. So thank you for hanging with us.

Thank you for listening to the bonus stuff. Thanks for telling your friends about it. And we appreciate this shit out of you. I'll tell you that right now. You want to follow us on social media. Real easy to do that. Just head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Hit the menu.

There's links to follow us on whatever, and you can follow us and keep finding us and keep coming back. And until next week, you turkeys, it's been our pleasure. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey

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