Small Town Murder - #424 - The Bloodiest Present Under The Tree - Crystal, Minnesota

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

This week, in Crystal, Minnesota, an alcoholic couple seem to stumble through each day, before drinking so much, that they pass out at night. This caused some obvious problems, but it all comes to a head, one day, a week before Christmas. A drunken day, turns into a bloody evening, including blood on the Christmas tree, and a dead person, seemingly left as a present. Is there more to this than meets the eye?Along the way, we find out that Minnesota likes to hire local musicians, that the holiday season can be stressful for anyone, and that you shouldn't drink rum, beer, Schnapps, and tequila before noon!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah! Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wisman and i'm fast on the draw thank you so much yeah you jumped on i love it no you're excited you're excited i'm sick we're day drinking this is we don't care who cares this is fun stuff so let's get into this we have a wild episode for you today as you might imagine all aboard the murder train as we pull away from the station here wild stuff just have to tell you definitely head over to shut up and

give me murder.com virtual live oh tickets to the virtual live show october the 26th it'll be available for a week after that as well. You can watch it as many times as you want all through Halloween. We're going to have costumes on, do a creepy Halloween show. We cannot wait for it. So if you've ever heard a virtual live show or seen one, I should say, just like a regular live show, but in your living room or your back porch or on your roof or wherever you want to listen to it. Wherever you do it. In your bed.

In your bathroom. I don't care. In your bed. In your bathroom. I don't care. Yeah, take a dump and watch us. Who cares? Do it up and hang out with us. We cannot wait. And also, while you're at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com, pick up tickets for the live show,

the regular live show, Dallas, December the 2nd. That is the only one left with tickets. Everything else is sold out. We can't wait to see you, Philly, Washington, and Boston. We're excited for our Northeastern swing here. Should be great. That's going to be a lot of fun. Check sold out. We can't wait to see you, Philly, Washington, and Boston. We're excited for our Northeastern swing here. It should be great. That's going to be a lot of fun. Check that out.

You definitely want to listen to our new show, our new podcast, which if you're listening when this comes out regularly, it's out now. Your Stupid Opinions. Go ahead. Subscribe. Check it out. Go get it. We're going to make fun of all things reviews from the internet, which is so much fun because it's way more about the person doing the reviewing than the actual thing they're reviewing. We all know that stuff.

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back catalog, over 200 episodes of back stuff you can listen to, bonus stuff only available there for $5. You've got to be kidding me. And then two new episodes every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. This week is no different. What you're going to get this week for crime and sports,

we're going to talk about Operation Slapshot, which was a big gambling scandal in the NHL in the 2000s. And then we're also going to talk about the movie Slapshot. What a show. Neither of us had seen it somehow in our whole lives, so we're going to add it to our list of favorite sports movies and talk a lot about it. The dressing guy.

It's ridiculous. And you feel shame. How did we not see that? It's so funny. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going that it's so funny and then for small town murder we're going to talk about fire festival and fire festival 2 which is coming up and all this it's a lot of behind the scenes stuff the financials what went on how much did billy mcfarland piss away on private jets and everything else we'll talk why do you guys do this oh my

goodness patreon.com slash crime and sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. That said, what do you say we get right into this? Let's do it. Let's have a time. Let's do it. I think it's all time to sit back, everybody. Clear the old lungs and put your beer down if you're anything like us right now. And let's arms to the sky.

Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Okay. Let's do this, Jimmy. That feels better. That feels good. Cleared it all out. Let's go on a trip.

What do you say? Okay. That clears everything. I'm telling you. Shut up and give me murder. We'll clear the soul for the day. Let's go on a trip. We're going to Minnesota.

Oh, I love it. I love it. We enjoyed our time in Minneapolis very much, as we always do. And we even were there. The weather was crazy. We had golf ball hail pelting our hotel room windows. I was like, oh, my God, this is terrifying. It was great.

We loved it. The crowd there is always the best. We just love those people. So this here is right outside of Minneapolis, actually. And I know our last episode was right outside of Minneapolis. We like to move around the state, but tough shit. This is what we got. This is better.

I found this is the most interesting case I found this time. So this is in Crystal, Minnesota, with a C. Crystal with a C. Not like an 80s child who was named Crystal. Like the meth. Yeah. Yeah, like the meth. This is southeastern minnesota

obviously it's 15 minutes to minneapolis so it's right outside minneapolis 25 minutes to andover which is our last minnesota episode which was bones in the bonfire jesus it was a creepy one my god i remember that one and uh this is sure how many are there we don't know where they're still counting this is in hennepin county population of this town 23 143 so yeah even though it's a pretty close to minneapolis in the you know tight suburban area it's still a pretty small place and everybody says it's got a real small town feel median household income here way higher than the national average about 20 000 higher 77 117 i don't they are doing it up there they are like christ they're making money median home median home cost is pretty average 292 600 so that's amazing not bad for if you're making good money why not a little bit of history of this town the first settler of

crystal lake township and yes this is around a lake called Crystal Lake which if you're a horror movie enthusiast you're already terrified of that's not good a guy named John Ware Dow came he arrived on March 26th and was the first guy there I guess to settle and then another

the next day another guy came John C. Bohannon he had to be pissed when he showed up. There's already a John here? I'm not even the only John, everybody. There's two people who are both John. This is ridiculous. This isn't fair.

And then later on in the year, so they were there for months, just the two of them hanging out. Yeah. You know there was something going on. They at least jerked each other off or something in a tent just to stay warm maybe yeah or he showed him the the most moist tree to fuck yeah like oh you got to see this one this is my best sheep and he introduced him then a lady named mrs rhoda bean came that was the next people that came like in the winter so later on i don't know why you'd show up in minnesota in the winter maybe wait it that came like in the winter so later on i don't know why you'd show up in minnesota in the winter maybe wait it out show up in the spring like the other people didn't

plan well wrote didn't know in 1860 though the government authorized the organization of crystal lake township and this is right when minneapolis is thriving too so at that point they're they're separate places minneapolis wasn't incorporated until66. So this is all around the same time it's popping off. This didn't just like, they didn't run out of room in Minneapolis and make it out of town. This was a separate thing of its own. It's a race. It's a race. Here's some reviews of this town because what do we know?

So that's what we do. We check out what other people think. Five stars is the first one. Crystal is a quiet area. It feels like you're tucked away get only 15 minutes from downtown oh so i mean that's not bad here's another five stars i really like crystal i've lived here since i was three and it is very safe most people are friendly and it's easy to start conversation with most people there is a lot of good places to get food which is really nice and

there is a target which i love there's always there's always a target honestly there's a target so everything's fine your arena is also named after them so i bet there's a shitload of targets a lot of targets yeah they probably got it pretty well covered up there three stars it depends on exactly where you live in Crystal. Oh. Now we're getting the dirt here. Okay. Like many cities, there's always the good and the bad part. Overall, the experience is great for the home value. So not that bad, not that bad. Here's three stars. Not the best or the worst.

Oh. Okay. That's three stars. That's a perfect rating then. Police are slow to respond. It can take them 20 minutes to show up how often are you calling at all how often are you calling them though where you're like yeah they're up to 20 minutes now last month they were here a lot sooner right it can take them that long but

they're also earlier you know how long it takes the cops to get here in my area no i have no fucking idea because i've never called them. So how often are you calling the cops? Yeah. Why do you need them? Yeah, well, why are you needing them so much? Maybe this is about you. Again, the reviews are more about the reviewer. Here's two stars.

There is not really any attractions in my area that I live in. You're 15 minutes from Minneapolis, my friend. Yeah, just drive. It's right there from downtown. There's so much great shit there. You can see us when we're in town touring. Come on. There you go. Here's two stars. A child just went missing in our neighborhood and an Amber Alert

was not issued. Why? What the fuck? I do not feel police are doing enough to find him. Police are slow to respond in an emergency. Is he still missing missing i don't know this was in 2015 so i'm worried about this kid now he's either missing or he could be in college by now this is eight years ago or he moved and he's in the nfl now that's what he is

uh things to do in this town crystal frolics yeah i don't know if they're saying crystal frolics or if this is like the frolicking of crystal i'm not sure how this is supposed to be done but it features thousands of visitors entertainment inflatables food trucks beverages and more of course festival yeah obviously yeah here are your musical performers yeah abba k a b h a space oh k a musician and Yeah. Abba K. Mm-hmm. A-B-H-A space K. A musician and composer based in Minneapolis. Enough said. You got a local.

That's good. Alicia Thao, T-H-A-O, raised in Tulsa, based in St. Paul, versatile performer, well-versed in various genres. Local gal. Local gal. Ashley DuBose, renowned for her hit single intoxicated okay i don't know that's true she was on season five of the voice and there's that so that's where she's from i'm out dorber wulu is a local hip-hop artist and student advisor. And an essay.

Do they rap like fucking academic advice? They rap about the University of Minnesota. They rap about not having a hot plate in your dorm. There's a lot of shit like that. Like, I want to make sure. They rap about never knowing Kevin Garnett. I never met Stefan Marbury when he was here, and I'm disappointed about it.

I hung out with J.R. Ryder, and this is why things are going bad. I never met Stefan Marbury when he was here and I'm disappointed about it. I hung out with J.R. Ryder and this is why things are going bad. I do this. Between sets though, DJ Soul 2 Dots, a Midwest born and bred artist will take you on a musical journey. So there's that. And then in addition to this, there is a search for the

crystal ball. There's a treasure hunt. Okay. Sound sounded like fire festival but uh there is it does it exist and on their way i don't know you the winner will receive 500 worth of gift cards from local businesses they have the prize they have the first clue but it's like a poem that's 80 lines long and i'm not going to read it now because who cares about that so go see go to crystal frolics and that said let's talk about a murder what are you saying i really wanted to move here until i heard about how they have fun yeah this is fun this is how they frolic jimmy god damn it this is how they frolic so uh search

for the crystal ball you must wear your pin while you search for it, though, for some fucking reason. I don't know why that's important. To let everybody know that you're involved. I'm involved. Some weirdo digging in a trash can. Following through others. You've paid the $5 or whatever it is to search for it. So that said, let's talk about a murder.

Okay. Let's start out with a man here. Let's talk about a man. His name is Paul Arthur Wilson. Okay. Let's start out with a man here. Let's talk about a man. His name is Paul Arthur Wilson. Okay. Very simple. All regular spellings, very simple. He is born April 20th, which is the same birthday as Hitler.

That's not good. 1967. Okay. So he's either like a real fun guy, likes to blow some blunts here and then, or he's Hitler, which is a real big range in between there. Hitler didn't seem like a real fun weed likes to blow some blunts here and then or he's hitler which is a real big range in between there hitler didn't seem like a real fun weed smoking kind of guy you know what i mean just didn't feel didn't feel fun at all no no if you've heard our nazis on drugs episode he's a meth guy he loves it so i never heard of that guy having a good time no he's a he's an upper guy upper people aren't fun no just not they're just not. They're scary sometimes.

They need that to be fun. And then when they're that, they're not being fun. They tend to have weird ideas, as we know. Bad ideas. Bad, bad ideas. Now, Wilson, Paul here, he said that he had his first drink when he was 14 and drank until he passed out. He loved it so much, his first time drinking, he just drank until he passed out he loved it so much he drank his first time drinking he just drank till he passed out which probably took four to five beers but still that's that's a really

wild choice that's as soon as the first drop hit his lips he said yes this is for me and from that on from day one day one which is rare that's that's a that's a rarity here even people don't get into coke that hard you know it takes a couple of times or like yeah i do a line i do that then you know a week from then you're up all night going i need more more coke but it takes a while first day i did coke i sold my car yeah that's what that is that's what that is exactly whereas booze he just passed out. So he was a huge into alcohol, obviously, as a teenager, also drugs, too. You know, he's a teenager in the early 70s and early 80s. So that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So he's most often on the weekends, obviously, because when you're in school, it's hard to be really shit faced in class. That's hard. They notice usually. Kids aren't supposed to just fall down for no reason. So when they see that, they tend to ask questions. The man drinks until he passes out.

You can't do that in third period. I was going to say, especially in high school, because you have to move from your seat after 40 minutes. They're going to notice you're not in biology and you've taken math class three times today. They notice that. So he meets a woman in 1986 so he meets a young woman just like him obviously he's a young man but a young woman marianne

hagford h-a-g-f-r-o-d hagford uh she's born july 26 1965 so she's a couple years older than him but they're in the same ballpark they're both young he's at the time in 86 what's he 19 she's a couple of years older than him, but they're in the same ballpark. They're both young. He's at the time in 86. What's he 19? She's like 21, 22. So, you know, young people, they meet at a job. They worked at together at the Scoville press. I think it's a small newspaper. Yeah.

They both worked there. And apparently she was just as much into drinking as he was. He found a kindred spirit in this which when you find that significant special other and they have just as much of a substance problem as you do that's not good it feels great i'm sure because then you don't feel like a piece of shit because every other relationship you've had you felt like a you know a monster and now you're like no right i'm normal this is normal to drink till you pass out every night okay right but not good there are substances you can well

there's a substance you can do that at the same pace it's fine as you can tell from me and sarah it's the only one you can witness us we do. Alcoholics tend to have alcoholic fights. That's the problem. That's ugly. And also, they're not even, like, again, sturdy on their feet. So it gets dangerous. Oh, that's not good at all. It's bad.

But I guess they get involved in a relationship pretty quick. But I guess everybody says she seems to have her shit together. Like, she'll drink at night until she passes out. But then in the morning, she's fresh as a daisy at work on time. You know what I mean? How about that? Yeah. So it's called a functioning alcoholic is what that is.

Sometimes we do terrific, but other times we may fall apart. We may fall apart. She was born in Hennepin, Minnesota. Her father's name is Richard Earl Hagford. So Dick Hagford is a rough name. Jesus Christ, as if the last name wasn't brutal enough. Yeah, Hagford sounds like a tough guy, and now you're

Dick Hagford. He sounds like Dick Hagford will punch you right in the mouth. That's the thing, though. And her mother's name is Doris. So, Doris and Dick, her parents. Jesus. And she is one of six kids, the way oh my four brothers and a sister so that's an interesting household to grow up in it's a lot of kids it's very uh

forget it and if they're older i mean the daughters that's what ends up happening is the daughters end up having to do everything the boys are doing because they're forced to. So May of 1986, Paul, I guess he figured out he wasn't doing well, and he decides he's going to check himself into rehab. Oh. He said that. Yeah. He said, and it's because of an incident. Something happened, and he said, well, that's not good.

I need help. And he went. So this is good. These are good things. I guess he and Marianne went to the Apple River in Wisconsin on a camping trip. Yeah. Is what he said. And he was, from that, he said he had, quote, stupid, embarrassing behavior during the trip. Oh, no.

What he called stupid and embarrassing. Which a blackout drunk drunk imagine what they think yeah you know it's a their version of of stupid and embarrassing is wade like i've said something that's slightly wrong and i'll beat myself up about it for seven eight years where a drunk could like literally pee on your leg and not even be like what are you mad about like 15 minutes later did he rent a motorhome and piss in it you know i mean yeah piss in the bed and that's embarrassing you had to like run a child over with your car to be like that was stupid and about jesus christ there's gotta be there's

gotta be human waste or death or injury involved for it to be something that you're embarrassed about yeah that's it yeah publicly having shit all over you right or or you hurt a child the only thing that other that can do that vomit on a kid so he checks in he stays for about 10 days in rehab that's a long one which that's and back then too now you know people stay for 30 days three months they stay but 10 days back then was considered you should be all fixed up by now you know right in the 80s that was like oh that's a dedicated that's a dedicated chance of of recovery it is 10 days it's it's better than uh yeah the dt's have stopped you know that's helpful you've certainly gone through them that's for sure yeah shit has stopped you're at least detoxed

so he gets out and within three, he is shit-faced again. Really? Yeah, 10 days of sobriety. It was just to heal up the liver a little bit. We've known. Yeah. You know who I'm talking about. He went to the doctor, our friend, and they told him, if you don't stop drinking, and he was like 33, you are going to die.

Your liver is going to fall out. So he stopped for like a week and was like, yeah you are gonna die your liver's gonna fall out so he stopped for like a week and was like well that'll be good and he said like you gotta stop every once in a while just to let it heal up for a minute and then you can get right back into it i was like whoa it regenerates you see holy shit you don't get a whole new liver after a week no problem you'll be after a week it's like brand new it's like a baby new liver after a week. No problem. After a week, it's like brand new. It's like a baby's liver. It's pink and ready for action.

Like there's a polishing shrimp in there fixing it up right now? No. Yeah, that's all it is. It's just one of those little algae eaters that's sucking on the walls of it. It's fine now. It's all fixed up. So when he gets out, they get shit- shit faced together and they move in together that summer okay so they move in they're ready to make a go of this thing they've known each other for three months and they've been shit faced every

day of it and ready to make a go of it so in 90 days they've been together 80 because tanny was in rehab he was in rehab and she was like drink and go when is he going to be home boy do i miss him damn it so they start dating obviously they move in together by august of 86 i mean all they're doing they're drinking constantly the two that's all they do august of 86 paul wilson gets his third drunk driving conviction how old is he 19 third three three you're not even old enough to drink right legally and you have three already what the fuck that's wild he's required to attend alcoholics anonymous meetings for a week that's part of his sentence a week a week 10 days you know it's quick

it's why we're doing those areas wow and i guess marianne came with him and she went too oh he's like well if you're going maybe it's good for me too i mean you know who knows he would later say quote invariably when we left a meeting we'd stop at a liquor store to buy booze invariably every goddamn time every time um yep so they end up they're doing so they both have jobs though they keep their jobs they keep the steady employment. And they buy a house together in 88 somehow. I don't know how they're saving any money. I don't know how their life gets to the point where they can even, you've got to fill out a lot of paperwork to buy a house.

It's a real, it's not easy. You've really got to want it. You've got to be sober for most of that. Functioning is like a very hard, it's a soft word for what they're doing. They're genuinely participating in the American dream in life for people that are booze hounds. He's 21. He just bought a house. This is crazy.

You know, I didn't have a house till much later. So they were they're drinking. They would just drink till they passed out every night, every night, pretty much. Marianne eventually loses her job. Yeah. Because of not showing up because she passes out. There's only so much coffee, man. Yeah, when you show up and you go, you are just rougher every day.

Folgers ain't doing it. No, you smell like the floor of an Old West saloon right now. This is awful. So she ended up moving out in May of 88 of their house that they just bought somehow um and basically that's how they would do it they would for the next few years they live in this house together until one moves out for a month or two and then comes back and one will leave and come back and the other will leave and come back and that's what they do god the 80s the 80s because they're also they're always fighting because they're both so drunk they don't even remember

what happened the next day sure that's the other thing that happens so so easy to to forgive and forget when forget already happened yeah when i don't even know what happened that's and he said they drank constantly be quote because we were breathing is the way he put it paul because we were breathing he said we and the bottle were our own best friends. I got a feeling they're not drinking beer either. This is like real hard drinking. The bottle stopping at a liquor store. Right.

This is booze they're drinking. Sharing a fifth. Wait till you hear what the hell he puts. It's anything they can get a hold of. It's not like, well, I drink vodka or I drink bourbon. No, you'll have, you know, I'll drink some gin. I bourbon really it's no you'll have you know i'll drink some gin i'll have some brandy i'll have some oh my god you got there some of the some of that great sounds good cooking sherry great i'll drink it we drink wet that's what we drink

we drink anything that gets us drunk and is wet so we and the bottle were our own best friends so the two of them they didn't socialize that much. They would just drink together. That's all they did. It was their life. They were like crackheads but drunks. It was crazy. Oh, my God. It's crazy. Yeah. So their relationship, a bunch of people said Hagford, Marianne, has frequent bruises and black eyes.

And she told people that Paul hit her sometimes when they were drunk. And he denied ever hitting her, though, or wanting to hurt her or anything like that. He does say that, in his opinion, she abused him on many occasions physically. So they're both hitting each other and saying that they're not abusing each other and hitting each other. In one case, he claimed that she picked up a loaded gun and threatened to blow his head off unless unless why what's the guess unless you go down on me what is it go now you stop fucking you know tina or you do this no unless he gave her a cigarette a cigarette or murder or i'll kill you a cigarette or cold-blooded premeditated murder in this living room steel jacket in your brain sir

that is happening something else that's what he claims i don't know if that's true or not he said they they both had unexplained bumps and bruises because when they were drinking they would fall off the furniture or down the stairs all the time because they were so drunk they would fall down how if you're a drunk when when is upstairs downstairs even an option when yeah let's get a home get a nice raised ranch and we'll all be comfortable i don't think we should really single level is all we're here yeah i don't even want a basement just a hard hard how often are we going in the attic? Fucking never. Not at all, because I can't climb those steps. They're steep.

Wow. Holy shit. He said, quote, sometimes just going from the couch to the kitchen to get another drink could be a real ordeal. Holy. This is the level. I think we've established the level of alcoholism that they have here. They share a house in the 2900 block of Veracruz Avenue North in Crystal. In case anybody lives around there,

they can go check that out. In August 1992, they have a domestic dispute here where police are called to the home in the afternoon. They're already well over the rainbow by then and it's like two. It's all a lighthearted nightmare

on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor i just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. According to the records, Mary Ann told police she argued with Wilson and he knocked her down and she hit her eye on the table. So they said, did he punch you in the face?

She goes, not exactly. He did knock me down with an eye got a black eye on the table. So they said, did he punch you in the face? She goes, not exactly. He did knock me down, but then I got a black eye on the table. So it's a little column A, little column B. It's domestic violence, and I also actually got a black eye from hitting something from tripping. He threw me at the table kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. The table was caught here.

He threw the table at me, which would probably be, who knows, even worse. The table was caught here. He threw the table at me, which would probably be, who knows, even worse. He said to police that he struck Marianne, but that she came at him first, which is not an excuse. By the way, she's 5'1", 115 pounds. Oh, yeah. She's as tiny as can be, doesn't eat food. Probably doesn't take a lot to get her hamdogged.

That's what I mean. Oh, boy. He said she came at him first and struck him on the shoulder with an object. Okay. Hit him with a weapon is what he said. He pleads guilty to a misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct, which definitely seems like a pled way down. That's very kind.

In September of 92 and is sentenced to 10 days in the workhouse. Alright. In the workhouse? What is this? The what is this the 20s what the fuck are we talking about here he made a license plate the salt mines what are we doing and uh the sentence was stayed for one year though so i guess he doesn't have to do it for a year i don't get that now people want them to break up no one in their lives thinks they're a good couple obviously we're 30 40 years beyond it i want

them to break up right right now and it's this happened a long time ago family and friends tried to break them up because of their drinking and together they drank more if they were broken up they drank less separately when he got them together it was a it was a mess so one friend said that he never saw a relative said he never saw Marianne sober after May of 1993. Every time he saw her, she was fucking hammered. So December 19th, 1993, she's been solidly drunk for eight months. He's been drunk for, I don't know, six, seven years or so since rehab. And this morning, December the 19th, Paul wakes up at 6 a.m.

Okay. Which tells me that he probably passed out early from drinking all day the day before. Yeah. When you hear his schedule, you'll understand why he maybe wakes up early. At 6 a.m., he begins drinking. He is a... My God. People are eating grape nuts, and he's fucking drinking.

Put some vodka in my grape nuts. Somebody said, I'll eat the special K today. And he went to booze. He's like, well, I'll just grab a bottle. So begins drinking. By 11 a.m. He is hammered, by the way, by 11. Oh, yeah.

He calls his mother and tells him that he and Marianne are going to buy a Christmas tree today. Okay. They're very festive, so they're going to buy a tree. The Virgin Mary's exploding. She's about to give birth. We need a tree around here. And then I'm going to put her up on the top like an angel. The Virgin Mary's a fat bitch.

We need a tree. We need a tree. Fuck her. She told me to stop drinking. I said, Mary, you don't tell me what to do. Yeah. Very drunk. So Wilson here tells his mother they're going to buy a tree.

Then during this 10 minute conversation, his mother detected that he'd obviously been drinking and that his voice was not clear and he sounded drunk on the phone now for an alcoholic to sound drunk they got to be really drunk yeah six seven drinks you'd never notice it on this guy he's got to be shit hammered so just before noon wilson and paul and marianne drive to a christmas tree lot they're both hammered he's got four fucking duis already he's looking for jesus we're gonna buy a tree now and they're just going up there okay they chose the particular lot because there's tons of lots with christmas trees they're all over the place on december 19th they want to get rid of those things. So they chose the lot they chose because they knew that it was right next door to the VFW and they could go get a drink at the VFW while they were there. They can't not drink while they're picking out a Christmas tree.

This is crazy shit. I cannot encourage you enough. If that is a thing you think of, get fucking help tomorrow. Get a lot of help. It's next door. So the two of them entered the VFW at noon, right after they got a tree, stayed for about an hour and a half. During that time, Paul had two shots of tequila and Marianne had a beer. Okay, so she's going light today.

They're just passing time. They're like, well, we have to drink. I'm getting shaky. It's been an hour. So we drove to the lot. It's going light today. They're just passing time. They're like, well, we have to drink. I'm getting shaky. It's been an hour. So we drove to the lot. It's been a while. That's wild. So sometime during the time they're at the bar, there's some sort of problem between the two of them, obviously.

So apparently from what witnesses said around here, Wilson says they didn't have an argument, Paul says, but Marianne left the bar before she did. So if they drove there together and she took off first, there's some sort of beef, obviously. There's a disagreement. Unless she got so drunk she forgot she was with him. That's also possible. Well, the two things they like sounds like are beer and cigarettes, and things that VFW halls have are beer and fucking cigarettes.

Tons of it. It's just a smoke cloud with alcohol in there. Boy. So apparently, though, people in there said that Mary Ann became mad at Paul when he made a remark about another woman at the bar. Look at the ass on this one. Look at the titties here. And she was like, I'm leaving.

That's a vet's wife. Calm down. Yeah. That man died in vietnam and you're looking at her tits this isn't fair so she left without him and she later tried to go back to get him but he had already left to walk home which is best probably no shit so by two o'clock in the afternoon paul had returned home he's home already. And Marianne is out looking for him while he's home. He returns

home and again calls his parents. He just talked to them. I bet he forgot he talked to them the first time. This time he talked to his dad, who was watching the halftime, watching the football game. It was at halftime for the Vikings and Packers that day.

So, as they did every week, Paul and his dad discussed the Packer game, or the Viking game, because it's Minnesota here. This game, by the way, I looked it up, the Vikings ended up winning 21-17 this game. Yes, Quadri Ishmael caught a six-yard pass from Jim McMahon, who was quarterbacking at that time. Sterling Sharp caught a touchdown from Brett Favre. Yeah. Chris pass from Jim McMahon, who was quarterbacking at that time. Sterling Sharp caught a touchdown from

Brett Favre. Chris Carter from Jim McMahon. Chris Carter from Jim McMahon. That's pretty fucking awesome. 21-17. Anyway, that's the final score. Great game. Mark Clayton caught a pass from... These are all 80s, 90s names. That's cool.

Also, Wilson told his father that he and Marianne were having a really hard time cutting off the end of the christmas tree you know the bottom you got to cut it so you can put it in the water and all that shit he said we can't off of it yeah fucking do it he's all pissed off because they're drunk you know how hard it is to operate a saw when you're hammered yeah and he's not easy he's probably got a butter knife out there yeah or one of those shit hand saws it's oh jesus oh man oh those are a nightmare oh my god so during all this um i guess wilson's father determined that you were trying to cut it off with a finishing

saw and it wasn't a good saw to do it with you need a better saw to find a blade yeah exactly it's a little tiny one so during this five minute conversation his father said that paul was quote thick-tongued because he'd been drinking yeah sounded drunk yeah slurring so at 230 or 240 he calls his parents again he just talked to them 205 boy yeah he hung up with his dad he calls a house man dude you you're a drunk who owns a house what are you doing you don't yeah so his mother answers the phone this time and he screams into the phone as soon as she answers mama mama which he's a grown man who calls his mother mama which is interesting mama mama come quick. Mary's dead. Oh, he screams into the phone and hangs up. That was,

Hmm. Okay. She was fine. 35 minutes ago. Yeah. So they apparently jump into their car and drive over to the house. They live close by and they find Paul standing near the garage. They talked to him for a few minutes.

And then his father entered the home to call the police, because, you know, there's a dead person. That's usually the procedure. Talks to him. When he enters the home, he finds Mary Ann's body on the living room floor. Oh, no. Out, displayed out there. So a few minutes later, mom enters the house, too, and inadvertently, as she's walking,

she kicks a handgun that was on the living room floor okay which is not good uh she was worried that the gun would go off you know you don't just leave guns laying around on the living room floor to be kicked so she picked the gun up and placed it on the couch for safekeeping very responsible very responsible i'm gonna honey i'm gonna put your gun over here okay that's better i going to put my hands all over it. I'm going to go ahead and get my fingerprints on this gun while there's a dead woman lying on the floor. That'd be good. Okay, okay.

Can I touch the bullets too? Thanks, sweetie. Okay. Check the body. Wow. So at 2.47 p.m., the Crystal Police are dispatched to the home. Here they come. They're coming.

The officers who entered the home find Marianne's body face up in the living room and determine she's obviously dead. Yeah. Clearly. So they said the officers noted that the home is in a state of disarray. It's like two shit-faced hammered people live here. It's weird. Yeah. It's probably not just happened.

It's probably been like this a while. Oh, yeah. They found numerous alcohol bottles on the floor, empties over here. There's bottles of booze just rolling around the floor. It looks like there was a struggle. It looked like this three days ago. This is normal for us. But it's like a pirate ship with shit everywhere.

That's all it is. We got an empty rum barrel over here guys you want to take prints on this the christmas tree is lying on its side in the living room this is quite the scene this is so see and there are saw marks on the fucking on the trunk where they tried to cut it and blood all over the base of the Christmas tree. This is a bloody Christmas tree. Oh, Christmas tree. Oh, Christmas tree. Your base is full of DNA.

What the fuck is happening in this place? It's so funny. Imagine walking into the scene as a cop. The officers find, at this point, the saw has blood all over it as well. They find a shell casing on the floor near the tree as well. Oh, no. That is not what Santa left for the kids, I don't think. They noted a glass picture frame hanging near the living room couch had been shattered, leaving broken shards of glass all over the couch.

couch had been shattered, leaving broken shards of glass all over the couch. Also, they found the gun that Wilson's mother placed on the couch and a significant amount of blood on the floor. They said the largest pool of blood was roughly 18 inches in diameter and was under the base of the tree. Wow. Two or three feet from her. A second, smaller pool of blood had collected under her body. So to them, it's obvious she's been moved to finish bleeding where she is now.

So based on an initial review of the scene, investigators determined that Marianne was likely shot in the back of the head at very, very close range, like muzzle touching her fucking head execution mafia style. What the fuck, man? Back of the head as she kneeled over the end of the Christmas tree. Like she's going to saw it. Yeah, she's trying to saw it or trying to get it into the thing, into the stand or whatever. And he just came up or someone came up and base of the skull just executed her. I mean, it's an execution is what that is. There's no doubt about it. Then they also suspect, like we said, the body's been moved from its original position near the tree.

So they conduct an autopsy the following day and they confirm that she died of a single gunshot wound to the back of the head, likely inflicted from behind and kneeling when she's in a kneeling position. Based on the blood found inside the gun barrel. That's how close it was. There's blood in inside the gun barrel that's how close it was there's blood in the fucking gun barrel blood got inside after while force was pushing out of the other way still got in at a rate of like three miles per second yeah wow so that's that's a lot. That's how close it was. There is also an imprint of the muzzle on her head. This is contact. This isn't even from two inches.

This is right against your fucking head. The medical examiner also said the gun found at the scene had been fired while pressed against the back of her head as well. So it's obvious. Blood alcohol levels on everybody before we get into what paul says here let's do that mary ann's is a 0.29 which is i don't know that i've ever been that drunk that yeah that's if you got so drunk if i pumped that much into you you wouldn't be able to walk to take a piss go lay down yeah paul's bac 0.34 that's a dangerous human being if that's dead rock star level yeah that's fucking like you know john bonham we're all very sad that he died but that's a lot of fucking booze to have

your system i mean he probably shouldn't have sat down on that bottle and did a headstand that's a lot of alcohol that's a shitload of alcohol that That's crazy. Oh, my God. Even four hours later, it's still.31. So, I mean, he is sauced at this moment. So, back to the scene. Other officers review the crime scene. Sergeant Hardy of the Crystal Police approaches Wilson and his parents here. Yeah. Because they haven't really talked to him yet.

They've noticed the body. They're trying to catalog. After determining, yes, Paul Wilson is the one that lives here. Mary Ann's his girlfriend. She lived here. And that they were the only people home prior to the arrival of the parents. And Mary Ann was already dead on the floor. They go ahead and arrest Paul at that point.

Well, you said no one else was here. She didn't shoot herself in the back of the fucking head. Why do those people always get surprised when they're arrested? When they're like else was here i swear to god i didn't do it sir the next thing you know they're can i can i pee because i have to pee in this there's nowhere to pee in this car oh jesus so they met him they read him as miranda writes they put him in the squad car the sergeant hardy gets in the front seat of the car and asks him preliminary questions, name, date of birth, address, and all of that. According to Sergeant Hardy, Wilson stated he understood his rights and agreed to answer questions. So Sergeant Hardy said, this is the exchange that went down.

He said, do you wish to talk to me at this time? And the guy, Paul, said yes. He said, so he asked him some questions. He said, quote, I asked him what happened that day, and he told me that he and the decedent, Mary Hagford, had been drinking all day. He stated that they had gotten angry at each other over smashing some Christmas ornaments. Okay, so one person smashed them, and the other one was angry. Yeah, or they got mad at each other, and then they both smashed Christmas ornaments. We don't know.

I asked him what happened to Mary, and he said he didn't want to talk about mary just then not yet i asked him if he owned a handgun and he said yes he did he owned a browning i asked him what's the caliber of the handgun and he told me he didn't recall oh that's pretty drunk um he told me that he called his parents and told them to come to the residence and told them what happened when he called them on the phone. And that's what the cop said. After this, I quit questioning him. Why? It seems like he's starting to start poking. So according to the sergeant, he interpreted Wilson's statement that he did not want to talk about Mary just to mean just then to mean that Wilson was willing to talk about subjects other than Mary. And he also indicated that he he could smell the alcohol on his breath.

But Wilson appeared to be responsive to the questions and did not have difficulty with his balance or speech. Unbelievable. Point three, four. That's a man who's used to it. That's an alcoholic, man. The entire conversation was like six minutes. So not exactly an intense interrogation here. Didn't exactly put him under the hot lights, you know?

Six minutes. Yeah. At 3.37 p.m., he transported Wilson to the Robbinsdale Police Department where they met the lieutenant. At 4 o'clock, two officers began to interview him. the lieutenant at four o'clock, two officers began to interview him. And, uh, he said,

because Sergeant Hardy indicated he had earlier read Wilson as Miranda writes, the lieutenant did not do it again, which he should have, by the way, that's, you know, just in case it was a take an extra 10 minutes,

but the man's, the man's blood alcohol level alone, remind him every 15. How about we do that? You know, you have the right to remain silent. Okay, good.

Go on. Continue. Just want to let you know. Just so you know. Just give him a little reminder. Maybe he'll tie a ribbon around his finger just so he knows. Oh, yeah. Miranda.

Around his wrist. Anything. It says Miranda on it. So the lieutenant conducted the interview and wrote down both the questions and the answers. They did not tape record this interview either. They just wrote it down. Don't like that. This is the 90s. There's tape record this interview either. They just wrote it down. Don't like that. This is the 90s.

There's tape recorders available. Oh, yeah. 1942. I'm taping over all kinds of stuff all day when a new song comes out. Yeah. Totally. You're making a mixtape here. So during the interview, Wilson indicated that they'd been drinking schnapps, beer,

and rum that day. Ew. And that's not even counting the fact that he had tequila at the VFW, too. Schnapps beer, rum, and tequila? Do those things go together in your stomach? No, that's not fun. Holy hell. He doesn't drink for fun anymore.

No, it's just whatever he can get. Imagine the shits that man has after that. Good lord. They've got to be vicious. There's blood. He can't sit. He's like, is that a chunk of my pancreas in there? Holy shit.

This is getting scary. I need to stop. He recounted that he was sleeping on the living room couch when Hagford came out of the bedroom screaming at him. So sometime after he talked to his dad about the Vikings game and 35 minutes later when he'd committed a murder, he fell asleep, nodded off for a bit. Then Mary's had enough.

She came out screaming at him. He said, although Mary did not have a weapon, she was threatening him and struck him on the feet. It's an odd place to try to abuse someone. She's drunk, too. She probably just slapped him on his foot there, which is not a big deal. Wilson further stated that as Mary approached,

he reached for a gun he kept under the couch cushion. Jesus, man. When you're that shit-faced, you really want to have a gun accessible at all times just to be able to pull right out and use if you need it. If you drink like that, you should never be around weapons. You certainly shouldn't have one quick-draw style. Jesus Christ. He said he shot Hagford one time as she was standing near the bedroom door facing him, which is impossible because she shot point blank at the back of the head.

He said he kept an ammunition clip loaded. He said he did not think around what was in the chamber at the time. Okay. Again, this is why you don't handle open firearms when you're this shit-faced. According to Paul, after Mary fell, he moved her to check on her condition.

So he said, yeah, he pulled her away from the tree to check on her there. So that's funny. The lieutenant said he didn't tape record the interview

because, quote, he felt it would be intimidating. It's a fucking interrogation room and his girlfriend's dead. The tape recorder is not the end all be all.

If you've been in the midst of a dead body and now you're talking to the cops, if you're not intimidated, there's something wrong with you. You should probably be intimidated here. So near the end of the interview, the lieutenant asked Wilson if he'd be willing to give his statement taped. He'd be willing to tape it. But Wilson responded, I wouldn't mind doing it, but not right now. You have to understand I just killed the woman I love. Now he's sad. So during the end of the interview, they had him sketch the crime scene where he said he was.

Yeah, that must have been awesome. I wish I could see that. And signed a form consenting to the search of his home. see that and signed a form consenting to the search of his home okay so the lieutenant said that although wilson had bloodshot eyes smelled of booze and stated he'd been drinking six since 6 a.m he did not appear to have difficulty with the task before him right so wow both the lieutenant and the sergeant also said that wilson was responsive spoke clearly and seemed to think and understand the questions before answering so both officers later said wilson requested two bathroom breaks during the hour and a half interview and he did not

appear to have difficulty with motor coordination as he walked that man is a fucking hero he's taken to the hospital later on and his blood alcohol level at 6 10 was 0.31. So, which is well after he stopped drinking. At 640, after visiting the crime scene, the lieutenant interviewed Wilson again with the sergeant again present. Prior to this interview, they warned him of his Miranda rights. And again, he said he understood his rights. He takes notes. Second interview is 30 to 40 minutes. They questioned him about several inconsistencies between his statements and the crime scene.

Like, you know, you said you shot her in the front and the back of her head is where the hole is. So that's a problem. They said both officers testified that his demeanor was similar to that of the first one, competent to engage in conversation. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later,

what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Bye-bye. a community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing

secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. And although they would have liked to have tape recorded the second interview, he didn't do so because he assumed Wilson would refuse as he had done

in an earlier interview. Well, you need that, though. That's the proof of what he said. So you got to get better at selling that. That's what a cop does. A cop's fucking job in a murder interrogation is to convince this person to talk to them yeah so you want or get the fucking legislation to pass a law that he doesn't have to agree just fucking if he's on the rooms or just if you're on the

premises of a police station you should probably assume that anything you say is being recorded well yeah exactly but a cop has to be able to sell it and go listen this is for your safety i'm not just doing benefit you never know what we could say we could say you said you killed 10 people you set the chicago fire for christ's sake we have you could say anything this protects you to have it recorded he's drunk you can't talk a drunk into something are you fucking kidding me holy shit what the hell kind of lame cop are you douchebags talk women out of their panties when they've had one drink shit this guy's shit hammered shit hammered and it'll give you a vulnerable state and and admit to killing jfk let's go off i'm sure

and rfk all of them god damn it every kennedy he was the guy that made ted kennedy swerve off the road and kill that chick too let's close some goddamn do it the lieutenant at his notes said his notes of the interviews he said he typed them and confirmed the accuracy with you know of the type report with wilson then threw away his notes unbelievable jesus christ like they've never been involved in a murder before these fucking people you know, of the typed report with Wilson, then threw away his notes. Unbelievable. Jesus Christ. It's like they've never been involved in a murder before, these fucking people. It's like they hate their job.

It's like, it's bad at it. It's bad at it, period. So the nine millimeter pistol was recovered near the couch. Like we said, he kept it under the cushion there. Theory of the crime states theory is that he murdered her between an argument or during an argument regarding the Christmas tree. We've all argued over Christmas trees. Boy, oh boy.

But not to this extent. According to the state's experts, the evidence at the crime scene suggested she was kneeling. They dragged her. Muzzle mark on the back of the head. In support of the theory, they're going to have witnesses who testify to the position of the body. The pattern of the blood spatter marks suggested she was kneeling with her head bent slightly forward and to the left when she was shot and fell forward with her head down. One expert indicated that Hagford had been standing, as Wilson indicated in his interview,

but blood from the gunshot wound would have created a blood spatter pattern on the wall if she was standing. Right. If she was kneeling, it would have gone down, and that's what happened here. That's how they figured that out, by the way. The state also presented expert testimony later on, indicating that after a significant amount of blood had drained, her body was turned over and pulled backwards by the arms away from the tree. They said that it was such of great volume, the blood around the tree, that it had saturated the carpet and flooring and dripped through to the basement. That's a lot of blood.

That's a shitload of blood. They also emphasized that when police arrived, her body was several feet away from that pool of blood. They called a pathologist who said that his blood alcohol level was 0.34, which is fucking crazy. And this guy said that even at 0.34, an alcoholic could still carry out volitional acts and could plan conduct. Yep.

So we've seen it. An expert further testified that the occurrence of a blackout or memory failure due to intoxication was not relevant to the issue of whether an intoxicated person could formulate a plan. Sure. Just because they don't remember it afterwards doesn't matter. So at first they set his bail at $500,000. Then they lower it to $350,000. Based on what. Then they lower it to $350,000. Based on what?

Then they lower it to $200,000. Based on what? Based on him asking for it. Wow. So, yeah, they said her brother, this is Marianne's brother Bob, said that he was shocked to discover that the bail keeps getting reduced. He said, my jaw dropped to the floor. How can this keep happening? They seem to want to let this guy out to walk the streets.

Minnesota nice is real. Yeah, you know what? He seems okay. Well, he makes bail at $200,000. Of course he does. He's got parents that want to help him. On December 23rd also, so it's for the holidays, the brother said, we were attending the funeral of my sister

and he was already walking the streets. He spent a total of four days in jail. Unbelievable. That is horrible. Here's what the judge says about it. Why did he do this? He said that the that he weighed the severity of the crime and the information that Wilson, who's a lifelong Minnesota residence, has a full time job, is not likely to flee or be dangerous if released, although if he gets behind the wheel of a car, he is.

They said his criminal history showed a disorderly conduct charge in 92 and drunk driving citations. He said, if I were a parent or family member of the victim, I would certainly feel there were grounds to be upset. But I'm the judge here, and I have a certain obligation. I still believe, given the information I had had available that i made the right decision also the resources resources that they probably required with him being in jail as an alcoholic that functions like that the dt yeah just to monitor him through the withdrawals yeah get him the fuck out of here. He's still shaking. We dropped it to 350. So he's still here. Let's see.

How about two? He's still he's still shaking, man. So the prosecutor said, this is one of the most brutal murder cases I've come across. I thought the $350,000 bail was appropriate to keep him in jail until the disposition of the case. The lieutenant who interviewed him said, we were confused, befuddled and agitated. Nobody consulted us. Nobody notified us. yeah that was they're gonna do that well your part of it is over now you've arrested him that's your job now now you testify period you don't have say in that

stuff with you on everything yeah they didn't ask us okay well yeah you know you have other shit you're doing now so yeah where are your notes how about that before we talk about what we've done wrong let's talk about your notes and your lack of tapes so he's back in jail very quickly though because they redo the charges basically he's indicted on two counts of first degree murder and one count of assault and that gets the bail higher and he gets thrown back in jail okay so the prosecutors figured out a way to do it. At trial, Paul testifies. He doesn't. Oh, yeah. He's got to.

Yeah, but his story doesn't match, and that's not good. He's got to be believable to the jury. Otherwise, he's fucked because his story is, I shot her. Right. There's not a lot to work with there. That's what the state says, too. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's a tough one.

No shit. work with there that's what the state says too yeah it's tough yeah it's a tough one no shit so more than three hours of testimony he described a horrible downward spiral in which he and marianne found themselves and couldn't or didn't want to change it they were just drinking and fighting under questioning he said that he doesn't recall shooting her because he blacked out from drinking but he said he didn't think he would do such a thing well you did based on what your very first time you did yeah well he said he does say he conceded that he probably shot her he doesn't remember but he probably did because no one else was there he testified he didn't intend to harm or kill her he testified he'd been drinking heavily and had no memory of any events from friday evening to sunday morning of that weekend. Wow.

He lost a whole weekend. Everybody's blacked out for the weekend. Wow. He is just drinking all weekend long. All week. Yeah, that's from the time he got off work. He didn't recall any events from the time he left the VFW at 1.30 on Sunday until he heard an explosion and saw

Hagford on the floor of their home. He said he remembered kneeling next to her, seeing blood on her face, and later standing in the garage, but doesn't remember calling his parents or speaking to the police. He says he recalls being questioned at the police department, but he doesn't recall the content of those discussions

and doesn't remember speaking to either the sergeant or the lieutenant, who are the two people who talked to him. He said, quote, he remembers being outside the driveway. And he said, quote, the next thing I remember is hearing an explosion, seeing Mary on the floor. And I don't remember anything else. He said, over the months, I've tried not to dwell on it. Knowing Mary was dead and I was somewhat responsible. Somewhat responsible.

Wow. Is hard to cope with gee he did say though that he has not had a drink since since that day that and that god has played a very important role in his life since then now he's okay no matter what happens no matter what action or activity i'm doing, if somebody dies in the in the. I'll stop doing that. I'll never do it again. Oh, that's wrong. Yes. I fuck that up.

I shit and somebody died. I'm buying. I'm going to sew it shut. I'm going to wear a bag because that's never happening again. Oh, my God. Cross examination here, though. He denied here that he he said that he denied the reason that he called 9-1-1 four times by the way Mary had called 9-1-1 because they bring up four different incidents. There were those 9-1-1 calls for Mary over the years.

He said that it was not to stop his violent behavior from escalating and he repeatedly denied ever hitting her. He said he doesn't remember being angry with her the day of the death either. Doesn't remember it at all. In their closing arguments, the jury here, to the jury, the defense counsel, they said that they agreed. Both sides agreed he shot and killed her. They agreed his blood alcohol level was 0.34, three and a half times the legal limit at that point. Now it's more like almost five times the legal limit at this point. They said, though, they disagreed about whether he was too drunk to form the intent to kill her prosecution said called him a cold-blooded

assassination is what he did noting that she was shot in the back of the head at close range and uh his lawyer said he was shit-faced are you kidding me he's not capable of deliberate conduct look at his blood alcohol what if you drank that much you drink schnapps rum beer and tequila by fucking two in the afternoon you'd be sleeping right yeah come on um but the prosecutor also said that she's 5'1 and 119 pounds and not likely to have been the aggressor he's 5'11 175 we both know that doesn't mean anything though i've had little girls attack me like little women i think girls because yeah i met when i was like in school i had a chick attack me that was fucking five one is that what happened those little gals too because they know you're not gonna hit them back they're feisty as fuck until

snooki happens and then you know until that happens yeah oh wow i shouldn't do that anymore so not that anyone should hit anybody, I'm just saying, that was a stranger. That wasn't her boyfriend either, luckily. Exactly. They didn't go home together, I would hope, at the end of the night. So the only victim in this case is Mary Hagford,

the prosecutor says. Verdict comes around, the jury finds him. Now they can do premeditated murder, first degree, they can do manslaughter, all sorts first degree. They can do manslaughter. All sorts of stuff. They find him guilty of, you know he's going to be guilty of something, premeditated first degree murder. It's got to be.

It has to be. The jurors rejected four other murder and manslaughter charges that did not require premeditation and they found him not guilty of first degree murder while committing domestic abuse oh they said he wasn't beating her and then killed her he just that was the abuse was he killed her so yeah it's got to be because she is she's shot in the back of the

head with it pressed against her head he threw that bullet at her like he jabbed the gun at her while he pulled the trigger and he did it because he was mad at her but if he was beating her she wouldn't she wouldn't be on the on her knees before the christmas tree yeah exactly right she would be praising the tree probably not yeah trying to saw off the bottom so before sentencing they asked for a new trial really they said his blood alcohol level was so high he obviously wasn't capable of waiving his rights when he agreed to talk to the police so everything he said should be not taken which even then he'd still be convicted because he's the only fucking person there and he doesn't have a story of anyone else that was there and she's shot in the back of the fucking head man no shit they argued there was not enough

evidence to support a first degree verdict and that wilson was prejudiced by having to defend himself on manslaughter and murder charges at the same time. It's called a lesser charge. And that happens constantly. They are. The prosecution argued that Wilson made an intelligent and knowing waiver of his Miranda rights and his attorneys were free to present any evidence they wanted to that, you know, of coercion or whatever. But I haven't seen any. So the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that this was not a this was a murder and not a manslaughter case, the prosecutor said. So during sentencing, the family has their statements that they get to make, obviously, here.

One of them, Paul does not want to hear the family statements. He asked the judge if he could leave the courtroom while the statements are being read against him. Dude. Now, technically, you're allowed to leave courtrooms if you, but the judge said, no, you got to sit here and listen to this. That's ballsy. Which is great. I love it. That's great.

They said, nope. They opposed his request, saying it was important for family members to speak directly to him, which is fair. Say it to your face. Now it's not about him anymore. Now it's about them. So in the end, the judge required Wilson to remain in the court. And you got to look at him, too. You really got to look up and look in their eyes.

And Doris, the mom, just asked, quote, Paul, why did you kill her? Fair question. Bob, her brother, read off a list of the family members who were affected by the killing and told Wilson his actions could not be excused by his alcoholism. He said, I went down that road of alcohol and drugs, but I changed because I wanted to. It can be done. Whether or not you get life imprisonment or you've got life and Mary got nothing, I feel real bad about that. Minnesota does not have the death penalty.

So they said, by the way, this what the days where they were doing this was mary's uh 29th birthday of course it was it's her birthday so uh yeah her brother-in-law said that his parents could no longer bail your parents can't bail you out of trouble he said you're finally getting what you deserve even though it isn't enough for any of us this is someone i think whose parents have really yeah i think they coddled him and really made him think he could get away with it. He made three phone calls to his parents in the same day. Yeah, mom. But he calls his mom mama at 20-something.

I mean, maybe other people do. I don't know. What do you call your mom? Mom? Yeah. I go with ma. Or ma. I was going to say, ma is, well, Italians do it.

Ma. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a joke, as a matter of fact. They go, hey, Ma, all the time. Yo, Ma. Yeah, there's Ma and Pa in our tradition. Never Mama.

No? Never. No. Never. Maybe when I was two, but I don't know. So sister-in-law Sharon said that Wilson abused Mary physically and mentally during most of the eight years of the relationship and that she made excuses for him and blamed himself for her behavior.

After the killing, she said, Wilson tried to rob her of her character by claiming she was the abuser. Quote, no one who knew her would believe that. And her brother said, the whole ordeal has changed me and I feel I will always harbor some bitterness. One thing I've learned and would tell everyone

is if you suspect any type of abuse or if you have been abused, talk to someone and do something before it's too late. Very good advice. Paul reads his statement. Oh, what's he say? He said he loved Mary and didn't intend to hurt her. He said, not a day goes by that I don't think of Mary.

He said that he didn't deserve forgiveness, but he hoped the family members could find a way to forgive him. And he also said he knew that he would see Mary someday and that they would have a better life together than they had on earth what the fuck are you talking about that is a terrible is he shit-faced again how much schnapps did they give him before he said that pruno because didn't mean from the start you didn didn't mean to intend. Fuck you. You shot a woman in the back of the head. No shit. So the judge here, after hearing the statements, he says, you may fuck off life in prison. Yeah.

With the possibility of parole after 30 years. So a hard 30 and then possibly parole. He's only like fucking Christ christ he's not even 30 years old yet so that's crazy so the reaction her father uh old dick hargood said he was pleased we know it won't bring mary back but we hope there's a message in this yeah hagford yeah what i say hargood hargood hargood hagford hargood you areier. Jesus. We know it won't bring Mary back. We hope there's a message in this, and we all have to be responsible and accountable for our behavior. In his appeal, super quick here, he says they didn't Mirandize him.

He didn't have the capacity to agree to that. Said he was too drunk to talk. He didn't give an intelligent knowing waiver of his Fifth Amendment rights. And therefore, it shouldn't it should have gotten all of the statements thrown out and we should get rid of this. And, you know, also juror misconduct. He says the foreman failed to answer the jury questionnaire form truthfully by withholding information regarding his religious background. regarding his religious background. I don't have to do anything. Wilson said that the juror approached Wilson's attorney following the return of the jury verdict

and expressed concern that this juror was an ordained Baptist minister and may have held traditional Baptist religious views impacting his ability to remain unbiased. I got a feeling there's more than one of those in 12 in Minnesota. As I say, what about the other 11? Right. They said the trial court concluded that even assuming the juror was an ordained Baptist minister and assuming traditionalist Baptist views are opposed to drinking, the court wasn't convinced that the juror lied or that these factors affected the jury at all. Yeah.

So affirmed. Get fucked. Today, he is currently incarcerated at the MCF Lionel Lakes. Oh, that's where he's at now serving life. His caseworker, by the way, is Zdenek Korinic here. I'll give you his offender ID number. This is Paul's offender ID number 178103. And I say this because he is up for parole in a couple months, like in a few months.

That was 93. 30 years would be December of this year. He's been in jail since. Do you think he gets out? He's got to, right? He's going to get out. Absolutely. He's going to say that he's changed now because now he's super religious.

He's going to say he is religious. He was an alcoholic. His whole life was a disaster. He won't get out the first time because they never murder they'll keep you but probably three years from now he'll get out two three years from now he'll do it every year we gotta keep an eye what if he gets out in december that could happen everybody keep your eyes out because he's gonna come in all gray and be like you know i was such a kid at the time and now this i was 25 drunk end of a bar stool uh drunk as shit one day and he's

gonna drive and hurt somebody oh god this is this is gonna be like sunny the wrestler he's gonna kill somebody's grandpa yeah definitely we've made the prediction so there you go everybody that is minnesota enjoy that is crystal minnesota hope you like that if you did get on whatever app you're listening on tell the world about it give. Give us five stars. It helps immensely. It does. Drive us up the charts. So please do that. Say something nice about us. Doesn't matter which app it is. It's all good. Do that. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com.

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