Small Town Murder - #427 - Fat Sam & Crazy Crystal - Lawrenceburg, Tennessee

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

This week, in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, an unlikely, but deadly situation unfolds, after an absolute bloodbath is discovered. There are many suspects, including a slew of local dirtbags, drug dealers, and even the mafia. But some dark secrets are discovered in a trailer's backyard that lead everything toward one troubled person, who happens to be the least likely suspect of all!Along the way, we find out that adults don't enter pageants around here, that just because you did 30 years in prison for a terrible crime, it doesn't automatically make you bloodthirsty, and that once you admit to putting a knife in a dead person's hand, and hiding the evidence, you don't have much of a chance in court!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, a complete bloodbath leads investigators to a trailer with some secrets in the backyard that show a whole different possibility of how a murder went down. back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Ha ha, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another crazy insane edition of small town murder we have a wild story for you today it's one where you're like who's gonna be the murderer who's gonna be the murdery you never know it's a crazy episode can't wait to get into that before we do very quickly are you listening to your stupid opinions right not you're

missing out and you're in the minority because a lot of people have been listening to your stupid opinions right not you're missing out and you're in the minority because a lot of people have been listening to your stupid opinions and it's been going very well so check it out it's out right now on all major platforms if you cannot find it by searching for it because new podcasts have a hard time being found search for one of our names wisman petrogallo wisman's probably easier to spell search for that and petrogallo and uh try to find it on your podcast app. Also, there's different groups that have all the links. It should pop up. You should be able to get it by now.

And also listen to Crime and Sports while you're at it because it's been nuts. We had Murder this week and everything else. So check all that out. You also certainly want to head to shutupandgivememurder. slash slash virtual live is where you go. That is where you get tickets for the virtual live show October the 26th. And that will be available for a week after that. It's our Halloween spectacular. So all over that Halloween week, you can watch it as many times as you want.

Save it for Halloween. Do anything you want. It's going to be so much fun. They're just like a regular live show. All the pictures, everything like that, except rather than being in a theater and parking and waiting online, you're in your own house or your car or wherever you want to be in your pajamas. Very comfortable.

Just your own booze. It's fun stuff. So check that out. Absolutely. While you're at ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com, make sure to get your tickets for Dallas December 2nd for a regular live show. It's the only one that has tickets left this year. Thank you for everything, for buying tickets. We appreciate it, everybody.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of your bonus material. Right. So much stuff. And it's only $5 a month. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get it all, baby. The whole back catalog of bonus stuff.

It's like 200 episodes to binge on. New ones every other week. New episodes. One crime and sports. One small town murder. This week, which you're going to get, fun stuff this week. For crime and sports, we're going to talk about Pros vs. Joes, which was the television show that just said, hey, you know that guy

that works next to you on the assembly line? What if he tried to tackle Ricky Williams as he ran at him? Or some other pro athlete who just retired and is 10 times more physically superior than this man and let's put it on television and that's what this is it's fun somebody yeah got paid to do that what if a hockey player shot pucks at him you think he could stop him probably not he's never been on skates before but there he is um for small town murder we're going to talk about the case of Sarah Boone, the alleged, because she has not gone to trial yet, suitcase killer.

The woman who zipped her boyfriend up in a suitcase. That is not alleged. She said she did that. The interrogation is the craziest thing I've ever seen. It's the most incompetent interrogation ever committed to tape. Both parties. Can't wait to tell you all about it. Both parties are phenomenal't wait to tell you all about it.

Both parties are phenomenal. It's amazing. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of that. So that said, disclaimer time. Oh, and you get a shout out at the end of the show. You bet. Of course. Jimmy will mispronounce your name

even though he wants to get it correct. But also, disclaimer time. It's a comedy show, everybody. It is. We're comedians. This is a comedy. But all the facts are real. That's the show, everybody. It is. We're comedians. This is a comedy. But all the facts are real. That's the thing.

There's nothing embellished for comedic effect, which is crazy because when you hear the stories, you'll go, that can't be true. It is. That's the crazy part. That's why we're talking about it. So that's how that works. We go out of our way not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes.

Yeah. But we're not scumbags. That's how that goes. So if that sounds good to you, crazy story, lots of wild stuff. If you think true crime and comedy and all that should never, ever go together, maybe we're not for you. Right. Who knows? But give it a shot and no complaining later because we told you.

That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. Clear the lungs. What do you say here? Let's all put our arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Okay. Let's do this, Jimmy. What do you say?

Let's go on a trip, everybody. Let's do it. We are going on down to Tennesseeennessee this week hey oh yeah gonna go to tennessee lawrenceburg tennessee know where that is no no exactly few do uh tennessee it is in southwestern tennessee and it's about an hour and 45 to nashville it's south of nashville and about three hours over to memphis if you wanted to go over there about an hour and 45 to Nashville. It's south of Nashville and about three hours over to Memphis. If you wanted to go over there, about two hours and 45 minutes to Monterey, Tennessee, which was our last Tennessee episode. Yeah.

Good fences, dead neighbors, which I'm still proud of that title. I thought that was a good title. This is in Lawrence County. So Lawrenceburg of Lawrence County. It makes sense. It's area code 931. And they have two mottos. And they're both pretty lame, and we've heard them on countless other cities. Is it a great place to live, James?

It's one marketing company goes around to every one of these towns and sells them the same bullshit package, and they buy it. It's crazy. It's the first one, for a weekend or a lifetime. How many times have we heard that? For a vacation or a lifetime. For this or a lifetime. Oh, my God. For a handjob or a lifetime. How many times have we heard that? For a vacation or a lifetime. For this or a lifetime. Oh, my God. For a handjob or a lifetime.

It always comes up. And the next one is where tradition meets progress. Yeah. What the fuck does that mean? If you're old, you won't be freaked out, but you also won't be dragged behind a truck, I think is what they're trying to say. I think that's the... It's dumb as fuck. I don't know.

Yeah, that's just... We want everyone to like it here. That's what they're saying. We'd like both. Yeah. Yeah, totally. History of this town. I guess they've recently started saying that Lawrenceburg, this area, is likely the site uh where spanish explorer uh hernando de soto who

yeah found the mississippi river as if nobody ever stumbled across that before they wintered here in 1540 and 1541 uh-huh yeah and i guess i'm sure you could hear that motherfucker from two states away what's that rushing loudly how did no one ever find this there's people like washing their clothes in it and shit we did find it like a thousand years ago um the chickasaw nation sold the area to the u.s government in 1816 so uh this i guess david davy crorockett was here. David Crockett, the original mayor, was moved here from East Tennessee around 1817, served as justice of the peace, colonel of the militia and a state representative. Really? Yep. He also established a powder mill on Shoal Creek, originally called the Sycamore River.

And it now is David David Crockett State Park. So all of that and all those raccoon hats that's big money in the crockett and then died at the alamo is that true is that well did he die at the alamo was he actually there i think he was there and died at the alamo i mean that would really be a better end of that story how great of an end of the story would that be i hope so at this point i hope that's what happened i want i want to google it but i don't know that i want to google it yeah i think you're right though i think you're right actually that's possible i think you're actually 100 correct okay after world war ii the murray ohio manufacturing company who produced bicycles and outdoor

equipment moved here and built a big factory and assembly plant and all that kind of thing so it's also the they call it the birthplace of southern gospel music oh boy and uh yeah that's what they always say the downtown area has a statue of davy crockett which is a replica of crockett's office and also has so now I know he was in the Alamo you were right one of the only two Mexican-American war monuments in the U.S. which would make sense if he died at the Alamo is that right absolutely so that makes a lot of sense now good call Jimmy how about it died at the Alamo yep I only I only remember it because I figured in my head I was like that hat would look that hat would look real stupid in wartime.

And he probably wore it. Yeah. I'll make you stand out. Tail falling over your face. That doesn't look right. So reviews of this town. There's a lot of negative reviews here. More one stars than five stars on the site.

So that says something for the place. It's usually more five stars or more, you know, better, middling and better. Here's five stars. Lawrenceburg is know, better middling and better. Here's five stars. Lawrenceburg is a beautiful place to live and grow. It is an, uh, it is amazing to grow up here as a child and continued to a good future here.

Tennessee is beautiful. Five stars. Okay. Next up three stars. All right. Three stars. Lawrenceburg has very encouraging schools and teacher. One of them.

One teacher. Apparently a teacher goes to these schools. All these schools. It's a busy motherfucker. And the next line, I think, cements it. Population has little to no education. Well, there's one teacher. What do you expect? This person is not a miracle worker here.

Yeah. Go around teaching everybody doing his best then this person says i will bring i will bring you're running for mayor here i will bring more training education and entertainment to the area personally this guy's gonna do it they are running for something something the families need more family friendly activity okay all right here's three stars again. Lawrenceburg is an average town in Tennessee. We have Walmart and hospital. They are terrific writers.

I love it. This one teacher really needs to work harder. Lawrenceburg is the used car capital of the world. Well, if that's not a draw. No, it's not. Wow. If you want to buy used, this is the place to come. There we go. And then one star here.

I hated growing up in Lawrenceburg. Sure, I had friends and some family that I wouldn't trade for the world, but this town offers no opportunities for anything better. There is almost nothing to do. The place is rampant with bigotry, and there's no intellectual or adventurous outlets. I'd like to see the people change and the town grow, but I can't get out of here fast enough.

Yeah, you want to go out of a small town in the south. You know, southern Tennessee is what you're looking for. You're almost northern Alabama, Fred. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you there. You're very close to the border. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. to tell you there. You're very close to the border. That's not good. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

That's kind of what you're looking for. So population 11,460 here, which is more than I expected, honestly. Way more female. It's a lot. Yeah. If this person's right, that's a whole lot. We're not saying everyone there is a bigot. I'm just saying.

I'm just going from your reviews, guys. That's it. Yeah. We've never been there. We don't know. Female population is way higher than the male population. It's almost 53% female. So that is extremely out of whack.

I don't understand that at all. I mean, yeah, good times if you're a guy, I guess. But it's less married people than normal, higher divorce rate than normal. Oh. Way more people that are single with children than normal as well here race in this town 87.1 white 6.1 black 1.4 asian 4.1 hispanic so there you go 62 and a half percent of the people here are religious though very religious and 31.6 of the population here is Baptist. As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South. They're everywhere.

0.0% Jewish. I didn't think I really had to tell you that, probably. In this county. State of Tennessee. Yeah, not known for its, you know. You have like Dollywood and stuff like that. Again, these aren't like, you know. I don't know.

It's just that this is known, as we've talked about, the Sopranos called it. This is Elvis country it's known as. And as Pauly Walnuts explains, anywhere where there are no Jews or Italians, that's what it is. So not an insult. It's just the fact. So Lawrence County here in this county, last election, 17.1% of the people voted Democratic, 81.9% Republican, 1% Independent. Yeah. So it's pretty on one side here. Unemployment rate here, 5%.

So a little over the national average. The national average is less than four right now. So that's a little bit high, but not too high. That's still in a good range. Median household income, not a great range here, though. Household income, $33,463 a year, which is like half the national average. 34% make less than $20,000. Oh, my.

Yeah, it's tough. There seems like tough times around here. Cost of living, 100 is regular average. Here it is 76. Housing is the low thing. Median home cost, $186,600. So if we've convinced you, damn it. Oh, boy. You're going here.

We have for you the Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $780 a month, which is well below the national average. I found there's a ton of land. Very few houses available. Lots of land available, though. Really? Here's 20 acres of basically field with some woods behind it there's a creek on the back side of the property 139 000 for that really so yeah that's kind of the average per acre cost it seems like here i found a three bedroom one bath 1024 square

feet on 0.3 acres three bath what? What? Three bed, one bath, 1,024 square feet. How do you fit it in there? Three small bedrooms. It is a run-down, filthy disaster. It looks like it has not been even, I'm not talking remodeled, looks like it hasn't had a rag taken to it

to just wipe it in about 40 fucking years on the inside. Not even a once-over. Not even a once over not even a once over nobody took a swiffer to this fucking thing nothing uh eighty seven thousand three hundred dollars for this thing yellow walls on the inside too like dirty yellow walls those used to be white yeah no no bright yellow like banana yellow but filthy those used to be white yeah i don't even know what you have to do in there. You need like uranium to leak or something to turn it that color.

But that's possible. I'm not saying it didn't happen. Three bedroom, two bath, 1,400 square feet. It is a nice, clean HGTV, you know, white cabinet redone recently. Nice, clean, single family home. $209,000. Wow. Not bad. Yeah yeah your average deal here's a three bedroom

two and a half bath 3,115 square feet it's a little room to stretch out a little over two and a half acres it's a nice quiet kind of two-story house with some columns in the front very well done inside nice wood floors real nice gonna, though, $469,900 for that thing. What a deal. Which, it's a little overpriced for where it is. You think? Maybe, but... Yeah.

In Phoenix, that's okay. Yeah, I'd be willing to lose $80,000 for two acres and 3,000 square feet of house. Yeah, that's not good for what it is there. No? That was way higher than any of the others i think somebody somebody put too much into the flipper somebody put too much into the renovation and now they're fucked and they need a lot of yeah oh boy do we overbuild oh no things to do here okay they have a few different things here christmas in the country, number one. Sure. Which is Christmas in the country. Christmas cookout in the country.

No, this is, and they have it the Sunday before Thanksgiving for some reason, which is not Christmas. I don't understand that at all. That's Thanksgiving in the country. Makes no sense. That's early Thanksgiving. The Crossroads of dixie antique tractor show oh there's um yeah hundreds of antique tractors farm equipment and music and food there's that uh we have the james d vaughn festival that features two nights of gospel

music quartets yeah wow that's like clockwork orange shit for me if you want to torture me put me in hold my eyes open and make me watch and listen to two straight nights of fucking gospel quartets i'll lose my mind then did you watch that whole movie i guess i can't i can't do it which one clockwork orange oh yeah yeah christ have you gotten through a long time ago i was a teenager i think i watched it i don't yeah i don't i don't know what's happening i can't do it really i love it it's kubrick it's weird i like the shots i like it i like it it's good shit really oh man i can't i've tried six times you just don't like it then yeah i don't like it if you try more than twice

and still don't like something you don't like it that's what i conclusion i've come to it's just real awkward uh i don't like the the rape it's all weird and oh it's just out super weird yeah it's dark it's supposed to be yeah some shocking shit that's the point that's what it is think about what it was like in 1970 fucking two or three or whatever when it came out people probably shit their pants back then. I would have. McGilligan's Island just went off the air for Christ's sake and they're showing that like wow. This is different. An island where people were

trapped for years and never fucked once. Yeah. And we're gonna watch this shit? Oh boy. Yeah. I don't think so. No hooking up going on. Next up the Middle Tennessee District Fair. Yep it's a week. District Fair. Middle Tennessee District Fair. Yep, it's a week. District Fair. Middle Tennessee District Fair, which doesn't sound fun.

It sounds like it was set up by a bank, doesn't it? Yeah. It's the Middle Tennessee District Fair. Yeah, it's not good. It said the week-long fair is the largest annual event in the county, featuring food shopping, livestock, crafts livestock crafts food exhibits and a midway with rides and games i'm sure those are very safe and not run by meth addicts and nightly events such as the fairest of the fair beauty pageants and demolition derbies which all go together

i want everything for dudes come look at hot chicks and fucking big trucks. That's it. The pageants, they have little and junior and miss one day, and then tiny tot and tiny miss another day. So it's all children's pageants. I have not heard a thing about adult women yet. No adult. No. Those are from tiny kids to bigger kids. From tiny kids to not quite seniors. That's the way it works.

And then headlining the whole thing here works and then headlining the whole thing here well headlining the whole thing will be the truck and tractor poll but you can purchase tickets for the headliner on friday night and it says the lawrenceburg rotary club is pleased to announce that cameron marlowe will be there to perform biggest fucking tennessee fair and they're very excited the fuck is cameron marlowe with a cameron with a k though so you're happy about that it is okay he wants to give a nod and a wink over here so crime rate in this town what we're interested in obviously here uh property crime is high really way higher than you might imagine it is more than double the national average

it's almost like it when people don't have enough money they uh fend for themselves they don't have enough money and there's one teacher servicing the entire county it's that's a problem possibly yeah jeez oh by the way i gotta go back to the middle tennessee fair for one second in addition to the cameron marlo concert and the truck and tractor poll and the children of all ages beauty contests what else there's also and this isn't a demolition derby by the way because that's a separate event there is a tough truck challenge what is that i don't know is it like those commercials where trucks run over bumps like there's like littleba-ba-ba-ba-bump. Yeah. And there's, like, little bits of water in them.

Yeah, they road tested this. We don't have to do this. Yeah, that's what it feels like. Is this just some car company using this as a way to test their vehicles? Is it mud bogging, maybe? I don't know. I have no idea. Also, the jump and run, and it says cars and wagons.

So, are they jumping cars and wagons now? I don't know. And then my favorite thing of all, of course, donkey basketball will be there as well. This is a hell of a week, I got to tell you. This is a hell of a Sunday to Saturday. I want to know what the fuck donkey basketball is. I have no idea, but there's shit everywhere. It's them playing like horse but

with an extra letter that's all it is oh is it game long it's gotta be right you spell donkey instead of horse i need i need a goalpost strapped to a donkey yeah and you gotta chase that donkey to dunk i pictured the donkey and there's shit everywhere and you're slipping in donkey shit and trying to throw a basketball it's covered in donkey shit i figured that i want that sounds i would certainly watch that that sounds what you can put that constantly moving you can put that on tv and i'll watch it because this is crazy but holy shit i had to go back to that a little bit and now violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the. The Mount Rushmore of crime. Again, almost double the national average. Oh my God.

This place is terrifying. It's got 11,000 people. There's no one around. What is happening here? What's wrong with you people? That's fucking frightening. It's very frightening. So let's talk about a murder.

What do you say? Let's do it. Let's do it. And this is a recent one too. This is not from 40 years ago up in the mountains. This is some recent shit. So this is almost current one, too. This is not from 40 years ago up in the mountains. This is some recent shit. So this is almost current day happenings here. Let's talk about a guy, first of all, here.

Let's talk about a guy. What an interesting fellow this one is. Okay. His name is Sam. That's his first name. Yeah. Sam John Passarella. Oh.

P-A-S-S-A-R-E-L-L-A. They got an eye tie. They got an eye tie, and he's from Brooklyn, actually. Oh, okay. He's from Brooklyn, so my paisan over here is from Brooklyn. Passarella, one, two, three, four, five. Hey, we have the same amount of letters in our last name. Look at that.

Terrific. Look at us. Oh, no, wait, he's got 10. You cocksucker, I have 11. Lucky son of a bitch. Lucky bastard. Yeah. He can fit that in way more places than I can fit mine.

He can tell you where to put yours. That's right. Hey, I'll tell you where to put that extra hole, buddy. I got a place for you. Why don't you just be Petra Gow, huh? Come on. What's wrong with you? You need two L's at the end of your name?

Come on. You need that I in there between the P and the E? You don't need that, do you? He's born in 1945. Oh. Sam. His name, and this is what everyone calls him except for later on. Other people will call him Uncle Tony, which has nothing to do with anything.

What? Don't worry about it. We'll get there. Everyone calls him Fat Sam. That's his name. Yes. I love that it he calls himself fat sam yeah he's and he's 5 7 315 pounds he's yeah that's fat sam that's fat sam i mean and he

got an italian guy from new york every one of his friends they're not like sensitive like oh don't be nice don't call sam don't tell him he's heavy set he's gonna feel bad about himself they're like oh fat sammy and he's like fat sam's over here he pats his belly and he's like line up some cavatelli for me over here fucking starving fat sam's in the house and girls like him because he doesn't care he's awesome self fat sam that's the kind of guy he is there was a mob boss named fat tony right oh tons of those yeah a bunch of fat tony's fat there been fat everything. A lot of the mob names, though, everyone calls him that but not to his face. Oh, God. That's a lot of the mob names.

Yeah, don't you dare say it to them. It's what everyone calls him. That's Uncle Tony. Tony Lazy Eye Consigliere over here. You don't call him that to his face, but to his back. Behind his back, he's fucking, you know, he's Wanderoff or something they call him. Wrong way or something like that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

So they don't call him that, but the FBI knows that's his name. And then when he gets busted, he goes, hey, everybody calls me Lazy Eye fucking Wanderoff. That's fucked up. That's worse than me being indicted for all these terrible charges. They call me wrong way? It's messed up. It's because of my eye isn't it it's because of my eye isn't it well you know you sons of bitches i'm squealing my mother told me you could barely see it how do you call me wrong way expect me to get busted and not say shit about all this damn it that's why mobsters flip

because they find out all the nicknames their friends call them like he called me what okay i'll tell you what he's been doing yeah he's been running that right out of his auto shop he has several bodies buried out on staten island in the in the bird preserve fucking wrong way how dare you son of a bitch so he's he's born in brooklyn like i said 1945 he is shipped away to tennessee here huh okay he is as you take a brooklyn kid in his early teens who's born in 1945 so basically take like a greece character right that's who he is yeah you know what i mean and then you go you're going to tennessee which is weird so he's sent to live with an uncle in lawrenceburg because he's a he gets in trouble a lot in brooklyn so they're like

we're gonna send you where there's no trouble to get into yeah there's nobody there. Run around in a field. Yeah. Enjoy. So he was known back then as Fat Sam, by the way. Okay. Even then. He turns, when he gets down there, he immediately gets some local recognition because he forms a band. Oh. He forms a band and he does like civic events and sock hops because it's the 50s and all that kind of shit. All the teen events. Kind of like in the beginning of la bomba where richie valens was doing before he got famous like yeah you know playing like a birthday party yeah or the end

of back to the future the end of back to the future yeah it's either the beginning or the end one of the two so he and he's got a lot of charisma and shit like that you know what i mean he's loud he's a brooklyn guy he's different than the people around and shit like that. You know what I mean? He's loud. He's a Brooklyn guy. He's different than the people around there, and that helps, too. Very different. Incredibly different. So, yeah. And that's what he does.

His friend, or I'm sorry, his cousin, Marty Passarella. Hey, my cousin Fat Sam, let me tell you about him. He said, Sam John had a charismatic sense to him. Sam John. Sam John. Sam John. OMG, what is this? Old Sam John had a charismatic sense to him. Sam John. Sam John. Sam John. OMG, what is this? Old Sam John.

He had the personality that just attracted people. But Sam John had a knack of always seeming to be in trouble. Is he trying to give him a hillbilly name? I don't know. That's what I mean. He's like he's intense. He was fat Sam and he moved to Tennessee, so we call him Sam John, Billy Sam John, Billy Sam John Joe. We called him Sammy in Brooklyn.

Now we've sent him to Tennessee and called him Sam John. The only thing I could think is because he's in his family, that's his cousin, there's probably another Sam who's older and they call him Big Sam and this one Sam this and he's Sam John because he's like a third Sam. Growing up in an Italian family where there's like four names. We only have four names, our whole ethnicity. So there's four names for women, four names for men. And then you got to make distinctions any other way you can. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's

most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, in high school, Fat Sam becomes the lead singer in a band that played a bunch of high school dances all around. Oh!

So, yeah, he's a lead singer, and I've seen pictures from back then, too. He's a big, round guy. No shit. In the middle, yeah, which he's got a, you too. He's a big, round guy. No shit. In the middle. Yeah, which he's got a, you know, there's a certain something to that. If you've got a big, fat guy who's got some charisma and some energy and all that, you can go somewhere. There's a lot of bands that did that that way.

Blues Traveler. That's what I mean. Blues Traveler. It's Chris Farley's whole career. Not a singer, but, you know, that's what it is. So he does that. After high school, he moves to Nashville to pursue his musical dreams. He's that close to Nashville.

If you're into music, I guess, you know, shit, go there. It's better than Lawrenceburg or whatever. Depending on what kind of music you want to play, man. Well, let's see what his band's all about. He moves there. He's looking for work as a backup musician. uh then he forms his own band called libido okay yeah so italian la bomba is that what that is yeah that's how horny you are so it's got sexual overtones. La, la, beato. La, la, beato. La, beato.

So he never makes it anywhere famous here. Have you ever heard of La, beato? Not once. I mean, I have, but it's in male enhancement commercials. Yeah, it's every five seconds of a football game. I give up. I give up. I can't do it anymore with NFL games because of the commercials.

I'm done. Every commercial is for fucking gambling or for your dick. I'm tired of hearing about how you're going to get rock hard and then bet on the fucking on the Broncos with the over. Like, I can't do it. I can't have it anymore. I'm so fucking sick of it. I'm tired of famous comedians telling me to gamble. I'm sick of it. And I don't mind gambling. I can't have it anymore. I'm so fucking sick of it. I'm tired of famous comedians telling me to gamble.

I'm sick of that. And I don't mind gambling. I gamble all you want. I don't give a fuck. I understand getting paid, too. I don't. But this is, come on, man. This is enough already.

When I look at it, I say, you know who I don't think has enough money? Kevin Hart. He's probably really struggling right now. That poor son of a bitch. I don't know how his kids are going to make it. I don't know. I'm sure they're starving, so he's got to do these commercials. That poor son of a bitch. I don't know how his kids are going to make it. I don't know. I'm sure they're starving, so he's got to do these commercials. It's like, come on, man.

I saw Jamie Foxx on one. I'm like, you have a fucking Oscar. What are you doing? You have Academy Awards, bro. Right. What the fuck are you doing? Kevin Hart got pulled from the Oscars to host, and now all of a sudden he's like, man, I gotta get every dime I can. That's the weirdest shit.

You have every dime. You have all the dimes. Stop. Remember when Blazing Saddles, when they said someone's gonna have to go back and get a shitload of dimes? They would get them from you, because you have all of them. That's what happens. You have all the dimes and none of the dignity now stop knock it off fuck man you're too talented for that stop so he doesn't get famous and he keeps

going back between lawrenceville or lawrenceburg lawrenceville now i want to call it that lawrence whatever it is nashville well it's nashville and lawrenceburg so that's why by 1980 though now he's like 35. He's been bouncing back and forth, kind of doing menial shit, doing a lot of illegal shit, actually. And by 1980, Sam, that Sam John is kind of with hanging out with the wrong crowd here. Yeah. This is a quote from a Tennessee Bureau of Investigation special agent later on. Tennessee FBI.

Yeah. They said, quote, he began the business of counterfeiting and buying and selling stolen property, selling drugs, and he portrayed himself as being connected to the mob or mafia in New York City. Oh, I'm sure it was so easy. I'm fat Sam Passarelli. You know who I'm with? That's all you'd have to say. Oh, shit. I don't know him. Oh, man. I believe it. I'm fat Sam Passarelli. You know who I'm with? That's all you'd have to say. Oh, shit. I don't know him.

Oh, man. He's probably. I believe it. I've seen them movies now. I saw The Godfather and Part 2, and I believe it. So he's bootlegging and selling drugs. Bootlegging, selling drugs, stolen price, fencing. He's basically a fence.

He'll buy counterfeit shit if he could find it. So also, he'll probably counterfeiting at that point in the early 80s, probably designer clothes. That's the thing he would counterfeit. Moving he could find it so also he'll probably counterfeiting like at that point in the early 80s probably designer clothes that's the thing he would counterfeit moving pirated shit if you do have any if you know anyone in new york city it's very easy to get that shit too because it's really everywhere so sell it in tennessee street for it yeah and things will go for more expensive down there as biggie said nicks went for 20s down south that's how it was so Expensive down there. As Biggie said, Nix went for 20s down south. That's how it was.

Figured out Nix went for 20s down south. That's what happened. So he has some 1982 is a big year for him here. There's a couple guys he hangs out with, James Howard Turner and Earl Carroll. And with him, with these couple guys, he purchased some fake silver from a Nashville businessman named Monty Hudson. Okay? So he bought trash. He bought trash. He got scammed by this Monty Hudson.

So I'll quote from the court document to tell you what happened next here. This is not the murder, by the way, that we're going to talk about today. Quote, When they learned that the silver was not genuine, they abducted Mr. Hudson and his wife at gunpoint from the parking lot of a Nashville motel. And the wife. And the wife. So right away we can tell who were, Fat Sam John is not a great guy here. He's dangerous.

He's a dangerous man. Mr. Turner forced Mrs. Hudson into his car and and Messers. What is Messers? OK. Oh, and Mr. Messers, Passarella and Carol took Mr. Hudson away in another car. Separate vehicles, even scarier. That's what I mean. Where are you taking my wife now, too? Yeah. So they take him the next day. They take them there. Mr. Turner released Mrs. Hudson the next day. OK. OK. Mr. Turner and Mr. Passarella. Those are the two criminals here. Fat Sam John and his buddy were indicted on two counts of kidnapping and their trials were severed because they killed Mr. Hudson. That's the thing here. Now, Carol accepted a sentence of two years for kidnapping in exchange for testimony against Fat Sam John, who was, he is convicted, Fat Sam John is, and receives a sentence of 70 years in prison. Jeez. You, sir, may certainly fuck off because prior

to the trial, they found the corpse finally, and the facts indicated that he was killed by Fat Sam John when they found him. They arrested everyone and tried them for kidnapping and well, right before the trials, they found the body. They were like, oh, let's tack murder onto that.

Now, one of the investigators said they could never actually pin the murder on Sam John. They did have enough evidence to convict him of the kidnapping of both Monty and Liz, and so Sam was sentenced to 20 years and then, I believe, 50 years to run consecutively. Uh-huh. Yeah.

So, yeah, from the court documents of James Howard Turner, because he went to trial and everything, they said that apparently Hudson sold bogus silver to at least one of these people. And also, I guess they had borrowed like $6,000 for this, too, to buy this bogus silver. So they were like in debt and now they had shit. So, yeah, I guess Sam John Passarella and Carol were accused of abducting Hudson and murdering him. And Hudson's body was discovered before the trial.

I'm sorry, after Passarella's trial. That's the problem. They banged him for 70 years before they even found the body. Holy. But before Turner's trial. And that was a result of information provided by Carol because he was with Sam John when this happened. And, yeah,er was charged with the murder and passerella was not though and he was not subsequently charged either but he does decades

in prison really yeah because they gave him the harshest sentence they could because they knew that this person was dead yeah they knew he killed him you know but they just didn't it wasn't able to do that. He serves 29 years and 7 months in prison. Wow, in his 30s. Does 30 years, yeah. And finally is paroled in 2013. Get out of here. Yep, 30 years does and gets paroled in 2013. Holy shit.

This is where our story takes place here after this. So a man was in prison for 30 years. Yes. This is who we're dealing with. For a bad, bad thing. A murderer who was in prison for 30 years before we even get to the murder. And now, welcome. And now here he is.

What does he look like today? Oh, I'll show you. I got a picture. Yeah, I'll show you. I got a picture. Yeah, I'll show you. This is why you got to go to live shows so you can see pictures of this stuff. And I'll post it on social media, obviously. But holy shit. So 29 years and seven months.

Obviously, you want to go right back to Lawrenceburg, Tennessee and settle on in. I mean, it's probably exactly the same. I'm sure nothing's changed. I'm sure your favorite little ice cream stands there. He's like, they still doing sock hops? No? Okay. Nothing's changed at all.

He moves to Lawrenceburg where he has family and immediately just delves right into the local music scene. Okay. He's like Tupac. He writes in prison. That's what he does. He's been writing. You give him a bit, man. He'll just write his way out of it he doesn't give a fuck as a bar owner if a man comes in and says i'd like to play a gig here you have any references sure do sell

block c everyone in my cell blocks that i was the best okay so you play thursday i'm not telling that man no that's like in vacation when the actress who plays jenna maroney when they say i and i french kiss and she says everybody french kisses and she says yeah but daddy says i'm the best at it that's the equivalent of that yeah i guess you're the best and i guess you're the best you i guess you're coming in the whole bar yeah come, well, come on in then, I suppose. Hard to argue with that, really. So can't be disproven. So I don't know.

So he's here. He joins. He has a band. Wow. They played the Oktoberfest in Loretto in 2014. Yeah. Like Texas? No, no. L-O-R-E-T-T-O.

Loreto. Oh. Not Loreto. Okay. It's the male Loreto Lynn. Yeah, it's Loreto. Loreto's Italian lover. Yeah.

Loreto. Sing to me from the window, Loreto. So his band name is, and this this i had to do a double take because i'm like i think this is already a fucking band and it certainly is his band's name is survivor yeah which is the eye of the tiger people right if you don't know and they have a big hit one of them anyway he there's no this isn't like like two members of Survivor that he joined. This is just five guys from Tennessee who call themselves Survivor. You got to remember, James, he's been in prison for 30 years.

He missed this. Yeah. He doesn't know. He doesn't know about the karate kid, right? No, it's Rocky III. He went in. Oh, Rocky, yeah. He went in when Eye of the Tiger was the biggest hit in the fucking world.

1983, Eye of the Tiger was like the number one song in the nation that year. What's the song from Karate Kid? Is that Survivor also? No, I think it's which one? Because there's a few. The one. Well, you got the cruel summer one. It's just like Bananarama or something.

Everybody does that one now. You're the best. But the other one. Yeah, that one. Yeaharama or something. Everybody does that one now. You're the best. But the other one. Yeah, that one. Yeah. Isn't that Survivor? I don't know. I don't think so.

Maybe not. You're the best. I don't know. And then part two had like Peter Cetera songs, I think, in part two of Karate Kid, right? Thank you for joining us on James and Jimmy's 80s Movie Corner. Where we do it from memory. Is that the one where he went to China or whatever? He went to Okinawa.

Yeah, he went to Okinawa. Went to Japan. And imitated a little drum thing. A little drum, yeah. To beat a man who's much bigger and more talented than him. Which obviously is very realistic. For the love of a woman. For the love of a woman.

Of an Okinawan. for the love of a woman for the love of a of a woman of an okanagan who who ripped off her traditional dress and had like a deaf leopard t-shirt on underneath it when she declared her love for ralph macchio i'm sure i don't remember oh yeah the whole crowd beat the local guy fucking strange strange guinea from new jersey please yeah Who is built like Bruce Lee and you're not meeting. Without the sinewiness. Bruce Lee was like ripped of Ralph Macchio's just like I don't know, I'm just a teenage kid.

Oh, the other guy. I mean, the bad guy looks exactly like they were like, give us a Bruce Lee. He was fighting Piston Honda, basically. So he's fighting from Mike Dyson's punch out. Like this asian guy who's gonna kick the shit out of him he's much bigger little ralph macho sure all right little ralph is down there in his tank top very upset and scared little ralph who was rejected from his city and made to live in

fucking somewhere else i think it was la i think so yeah something like that mom made a move from Philadelphia to LA or something like that yeah yeah oh man so Survivor obviously like we said certainly a band and he certainly knew it existed he's got a note by now right well he knew when he went in like I said it was the biggest hit in the world and he was into music so he was aware of eye of the tiger from the biggest movie of the year the biggest hit song of the year he knew it existed hulk hogan came out to it for christ's sake that was his fucking everyone knew it but let's say he missed it because he loved music so much he immerses himself in just his own james he's focused but when he gets out you've got the fucking internet he fucking knew that's the thing he had it in his head for 40 years

40 years of the time he's just singing it as he's that's what got him through 30 years like we're calling ourselves survivor okay those guys don't around ain't around no more don't worry about it they're all dead they're all dead i took care of it now uh let's enter an fbi agent here this is retired fbi agent richard nudson so dickie nudes over here really dickie nudes he says that he investigated a matter in the late 70s early 80s early 80s this is the murder it's 1983 it happened but he he investigated this and he said that uh this investigation led him to conclude that the victim uh in this case had been murdered in connection with this whole thing and he said that um in this case fat sam john's the aggravated kidnapping case he described this whole deal. And he said that,

um, he said that he learned through a prison informant while he was in prison, while fat Sam, John was in prison. This FBI agent learned that fat Sam had put out an open contract seeking to kill someone to kill either agent Nudson or one of the witnesses in the case. Really?

Yeah. Um, the agent said he one of the witnesses in the case. Really? Yeah. The agent said he had three small daughters at the time. So he said, obviously, this had an effect on me. He said that he believed that Fat Sam had the money and contacts to carry out the threat. So he's got a lot of dirt bags that would do this. He even considered moving his family to a different town to hide out, basically. Get an unlisted number and go underground. He said that he confronted Fat Sam during one of Sam's court appearances, telling him that, listen, I've just been doing my fucking job.

This is bullshit. And, quote, pull that contract back. He begged him. He said, you got to do that. This is bullshit. You know I'm doing my fucking job. Blah, blah, blah. You got to pull that contract back. He begged him. He said, you got to do that. This is bullshit. You know I'm doing my fucking job. Blah, blah, blah. You got to pull that contract back.

You don't see mobsters taking out FBI agents a lot of the times because that's the game. Crazy. Yeah. Well, that's the game. I do this. You try to stop me. If you beat me, that's the fucking game. So he caught you. That's the fucking, you know. Sorry know sorry forked down i don't know what to tell you also don't make

fbi agents disappear because uh they look for them right yeah they don't look for the truck driver that drove around these cigarettes this is that's a big deal that's the shit he said when he told him pull the contract back he said Fat Sam didn't reply to him. He, quote, just got red like he was either embarrassed or mad. Probably both. A little of both. So he got, oh, shit, Jesus, this is a court. And they got an FBI agent saying I'm trying to kill him.

Are they going to arrest me? Yeah. So according to this FBI agent, the Fat Sam's reputation in the community was as a, quote, extremely dangerous and violent man. And in his own personal opinion, he thought Sam was dangerous, threatening and menacing. So extremely dangerous, violent, threatening and menacing is how he's being described. What a guy. What a guy. So what is any dangerous, threatening, violent, menacing, maniac murderer do at this point?

What would any of them do? Write your ballad album. You move into senior housing, obviously. Oh, is that what he did? You move into a 60-plus community is what you do. 65-plus community is where he moves. Incredible. Senior housing.

Because, you know, no one will notice any crazy goings on in a senior housing community. They notice if one of your grandkids came to visit. They're like, he's out there dribbling a basketball, Sam. Call the cops. Henry, call the police. They don't do much dribbling. The only dribbling they do is after they pee. Yeah.

If there's any dribbling in here, I know it's is after they pee yeah if there's any dribbling in here i know it's and it's not peeing i know it's unauthorized so he moves into the crockett senior housing complex everything's named after davy crockett here by the way lord yep he would while he's living here he played with his band survivor at local functions and benefits uh he moves into this subsidized department complex it's for people over 65 he makes some friends in there he's a very uh he's a very friendly guy also he makes friends easily which is interesting he might be able just to learn eye of the tiger and then pretend to be who cares yeah nobody would give a shit a couple weeks ago the oakridge boys read a thing and we were like are they still alive there's like one person who was briefly

with the other guy that's all just a new bunch of guys who cares anymore just call yourself the oakridge boys sing elvira and we're all happy that's it so grow a beard and sing bobby so here is survivor i'll turn the monitor check that that out. Holy. There's obviously. Look at that. Let's see Fat Sam. Right here. Obviously. Look at this guy. You don't really have to have him pointed out, the one who is Fat Sam.

That guy's a little heavy too, but he's Fat Sam, obviously. Yeah, he sure is. He's got a fedora and some gloves on, some fingerless gloves. And arms bigger than my legs. Oh, yeah, yeah. Those are huge. His gloves and hat are from rocky one basically that's the rocky one collection he needs to be bouncing a rubber ball and he's got it so

or the or the andrew dice clay starter kit the andrew dice clay starter kit i don't see any cigarettes in his sleeve or anything like that so judging by the survivor and the eye of the tiger which was in rocky three i'm just saying he's got her and the fact that he's italian yeah you've ever seen eddie murphy raw italians have a weird rocky obsession we do he's got it he's got it i think maybe and uh it's weird so mid-april 2015 just like april 12th ish around there he plays a gig with his band it's from social media we found on uh in loretto at nana's pizzeria over at nana's over at nana's yeah that's sounds like an open mic but okay yeah i'm just gonna get the nana's sure it's a big deal remember doing ever do like an open mic at a pizza

place while business was going on yeah back in the day oh is that awful i think we've done it together it's the worst yeah it's bright lights there's people just walking in like i ordered the two large pepperoni and i got that and you're like telling a fucking joke it's it's miserable there is one that still happens that's outdoors uh and the the ordering is outdoors so you are in the middle of a joke and somebody's shouting no can i get a dr pepper oh hell no no in the bottle yeah in the bottle the mexican one if you if you i don't i'm sure this isn't anybody listening but if anyone listening is even considering taking a microphone outdoors in phoenix stop right now take that microphone bash yourself in the forehead with it until it breaks then

hang yourself with the fucking cord okay Okay? Because you're an asshole. Or take that broken end and jam it firmly right up your asshole. Directly up your asshole. And then hang yourself with the cord. Because if you're going to make comics stand outside when it's 114 and be like, I don't know why no audience shows up. I do. Because it's hot. It's miserable.

It's stupid. So people knew of his criminal history. They knew he'd been in prison. I mean, he just popped up after 30 years. So it's not like he's been, hey, where's that guy been for a long time? behavior he did his prison time now he's an old man he's in his late 60s he's in a retirement community he's playing with his band he's just trying to live his golden years and yeah you know do all that kind of thing they said he was actually became a beloved fixture of the community by now is that right crazy um he has a bunch of new friends too and he's got his bandmates he's got people in the senior center he's got a chick named crystal hey yeah crystal uh gregor uh g-r-e-g-o-i-r-e and grigois grigois gregor uh something she's born in 1980 hence the name crystal um is the perfect time to be named crystal and she's born in louisiana yeah she's from louise

probably is a french name though yep i think it is a French last name um she's known to have a pretty shitty childhood uh everybody says as a lot of people from Louisiana do yeah rough and shitty and uh her sister Misty McMasters that's her sister's name Crystal and Misty the two most 1980 and 1982 that every Crystal and misty and they have a sister named jennifer i'm sure also just to round out the there's a lot brandy and yeah absolutely it's just the 80s name these are all the these are the girls we went to school with every one of them yeah because there was four girls in all of our elementary school classes named Crystal, and those are just the ones not named Misty. Misty. Or Jennifer.

I forget that name. Misty. Yeah, I haven't heard that one in a while. That's a fun one. That is fun. After high school, she gets out of high school and immediately joins the police force. Is that right? Yes, joins the police force very briefly.

Oh. Like, she does her training, she's on the job, and then she's done very quickly. She drifts. Well, yeah, and I, well, this, it's a, you could go either way here. I think she quit. Probably because she was pregnant.

Oh. Because she drifts from job to job, and by the time she's 20 she has she's out of the police force and has three children man yeah she is she's an ex-cop with three kids at 20 which sounds like a 40 year old guy right sounds like mcnulty you know what i mean like he didn't even have to carry him though yeah yeah she had to actually spit him out. She had to put the work in. Jesus Christ. Oh, shit.

So just a mess. She's married, from what we understand, several times just in this time period when she's young. People around her said she had a string of failed marriages. Just one guy would go, she'd find somebody else, three, four, who knows. But, you know, this is all through her 20s here. So she's got these kids trying to make ends meet, trying to do all of this. After a bunch of failed marriages, Crystal decides that she's had enough of Louisiana. It's not doing anything for her.

So she moves to Tennessee to be near her sister. So she meets, she hangs out there to be by her sister. So she meets, uh, she hangs out there to be by her sister and she meets a man and they ended up getting engaged here in the 2010s. She meets a man named Jonathan Howell. So Jonathan Howell has a friend of his named fat Sam, John Passarella. Yeah. And that is how crystal meets fat Sam. Now crystals 35 fat, too, at this point in time. So, yeah, but they're hanging out. We're friends. They're friends.

Well, I'll tell you why. And when I tell you why, you'll go, oh, yeah, that's what makes everyone friends. That's it. They became friends quickly, I guess. Really, Crystal and Fat Sam became very close friends. She calls him Uncle Tony because he's an Italian guy from Brooklyn. So she just calls him Uncle Tony. It's fucking hilarious how racist that is.

And we all just go with it. You're allowed to make fun of Italians in any way. As much as you want. We have to just take it and go, well, that's fine. It's fucking hilarious. It's's incredible it really is incredible it's pretty fun isn't it isn't it great fucking amazing it's fucking hilarious i see it all take it see like memes and shit and i'm like anybody else even the dutch would be upset about this what the fuck i'm not even talking about a black person no fucking anybody would be with you guys like ah look at you you're a bunch of fools dance for me you spaghetti eating moron talk like mario what the fuck what is happening garlic bread

sucking son of a bitch holy shit hey it's uncle. All right. You can't do that with anybody else. That's what I mean. Fat Sam is enough. It's already Fat Sam. That's not enough for you? Yeah, that's Italian enough. Just call him Sammy. That's Italian enough.

Jesus. I have a friend named Sam. I haven't talked to him in years, but his name is Sam. He weighed 550 pounds. Guess what everyone called him? Fat Sammy. It's sweet uncle Fat Sam. And he'd go, hey, oh, and he'd give you a hug, a big fucking hug, and lift you off your feet.

I mean, the bull's name was Sammy. It's Italian enough. You can just call him Sammy. Nope. Uncle Tony. It's amazing. That's fucking amazing. So he, or she, Crystal says she met him through her boyfriend at the time

who was jonathan howell howell the reason why they all hung out is howell's a huge prescription pain pill addict oh and uh fat sam is a distributor of prescription pain pills so he's selling drugs out of the senior center and probably slinging at nana's pizzeria on the side after a survivoror gig. I don't know. Wow. Might be pinching him off other people's shit in the neighborhood? No, we have a hookup here.

We'll talk about how this all happened. Okay. But Jonathan Howell starts selling pills for Fat Sam for Uncle Tony so he can finance his habit. Okay. So basically the spread spread he just takes it you know working for free i'll give you 10 you sell eight and then he takes two rather than keeping the money for two so that's how it goes so crystal initially was helping howell sell pills they were in it together but over time she realized this howell's a real fuck up, which I mean, he's like a hardcore pill addict.

So, yeah, that'll they tend to be less than reliable. Tends to mitigate progress and any sort of productivity in life is kind of a baseline. That's very, very minimal. And people who are very addicted to prescription pills aren't known as the most reliable people in the world either for like meeting people on time and that sort of shit things you need to do to be a drug dealer yeah all their go get them is uh wasted on fucking go get them pills and then put them in my body right and then now i have even less motivation yeah fuck now i'm all i'm all set. So what do I need to go out for? So she said, fuck this, and cut Howell out and started selling them on her own.

Okay. Said, you're not responsible enough for this, and went to Fat Sam and said, I'm selling them now. So she sells pills for Fat Sam for about two years. So from mid-2013, like pretty much right when he gets out of prison, I mean, he starts immediately, which I mean, he has no money. I'm sure he's trying to get something going on here. That is the cycle. That's what it is. And he's 69, too.

It's not like he can, you know. Yeah. Very few skills that he can get into. Yeah. He's not like, well, I'll just. Arthritis is a hindrance for welding. I'll just go get a job on the assembly line. It's like, yeah.

And he's got health problems, too, we'll talk about. He walks with a walker. He's not the most desirable hire for you know manual labor or anything at this point and then that old murder conviction that's yeah that's gonna be the capper on top there they call you uncle tony i see great excellent we're not gonna hire you i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California,

Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence,

and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder

rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So she sold pills for a couple of years. She said during that time, she, at the time she was telling people that she and Fat Sam became very close and she grew to love him deeply. Although she tells everyone they were, quote, not intimate.

Okay. Not intimate here. Now, a little bit about the pill business. Okay. I guess the way this worked is he enlisted the aid, we're talking Fat Sam here, of a nurse practitioner and a pharmacist to obtain prescriptions and pills. Sure.

So she gets a nurse to steal shit from the doctor. They forge them, take them to this pharmacist who looks the other way and fills them. So that's the way it works here. And then he gets all the pills. So I guess he also had another minor pill supplier whose name was Daisy. And I guess he would supply some pills, but his main business, Daisy was a man, by the the way was to supply him with weed large amounts of weed too because he sold weed yeah daisy so daisy's the weed distributor

apparently allegedly and sells weed to fat sam and some pills when he's short from other sources got it so this is like his auxiliary guy is that a is that a day daisy is that a clever way of saying gotta go get some flour is that maybe that's possible that's it that's very impressive if that's true that would be i like that a lot or he just really likes tombstone i am a daisy i will do and he's like i ain't no dana daisy just thought that was fun yeah Yeah. So Daisy does this, and because of, you know, Crystal selling pills and all this type of shit, too, she would have tons of pills with her all the time, too. So everybody's got all these pills. There's weed, everything like that. She would, I guess, help him ensure that he got the right amount of pills before, you know, when he would buy a whole batch, she would help him count it out.

And then she would take possession of the pills before his parole officer made the monthly visit to the place. And then she'd bring them back. So when the parole officer comes in, it's all clean. And then she comes back with a duffel bag full of pills and weed and whatever the fuck else. Also doing all these favors. You owe me a lot, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, she's selling stuff for him and all that um now she said she had obviously heard that he just got out of prison he's not shy about being in prison because i mean when you meet someone and

you've been in prison for 30 years it's not like three years where you could just ignore those three years and talk about the three years before that like they just happened like it's 30 years right what are you supposed to say yeah it was pretty cool yeah we went to see trading places in the theater last week and then you're not going to say that because it's you have no reference of anything for 30 years you have to say where you are but covid bottled us all up for like a year and holy fuck man i felt like i missed out on everything yeah i knew fucking nothing and nothing happened at all nothing happened nothing happened nothing happened yeah that's funny so she um she hears she heard a story that he maybe have murdered somebody maybe maybe so

she had asked you know what's up with that And I guess she had told others that he proudly related how he had set up a man who was selling fake silver by purchasing $30,000 of the fake silver from him, which is not true. Not true. $6,000. And it wasn't even his money. It wasn't even his. is after the purchase he said that uh he called his quote gangster friends uh that he knows and announced that they were going to have to whack this guy okay so he's acting like he called the gambino family up and you know they all came over and you know and hacked the guy up and put him in the trunk of a car yeah so he said then he and his accomplished accomplices kidnapped the man and his pregnant wife at gunpoint

to show what a nice guy he is yeah stowed the wife in a in a storage shed for a day shot the husband in the head and buried the cadillac in which the murder occurred in one location and then the husband in another location and And that I believe, actually, because I know of a lot of places you can bury a car where I'm from because there's just people that do that. And they don't ask questions and you can just bury a car. It's mainly for insurance purposes, not usually. But I'm sure if you need to get rid of a car because it's full of fucking blood, they don't care either. So, yeah. So there you go.

They do that. She said that he told her that he let that they let the wife go without harming her because she was pregnant otherwise they were gonna kill her or something but you know they were hey you know hey look oh ho you know what am i gonna do she's pregnant you know i'm not a monster over here but also if we get caught and that that the the court the courts will go fucking ape shit on all of us. Yeah, they really hate it when you kill pregnant women. That's a bad...

You look like a real piece of shit. It's a pretty defenseless person with another defenseless person. Right. You know, like, depending on... It doesn't even matter. You just... You don't kill pregnant ladies. That's, you know, come on.

That's bottom-rung bullshit. That's a... I feel like we all... That all that's been like a thing for a long time like we kill all well we can't kill the pregnant woman i mean that's obviously not look at her what are we monsters she's shuffled over here she had a hard time getting out of the chair we're gonna kill this lady that's crazy so just seems wrong to just murder people anyway but um she uh she said that he told her that he was convicted of two counts of aggravated kidnapping and he was released after 29 years and seven months. So he was factual on that stuff. But, you know, just exaggerated the amount of money. Embellished a little.

Yeah. So now by 2015, Fat Sam is selling pills, selling weed. Crystal's working for him. He's got a lot going on. He's experiencing a bunch of health problems now, though. Because by the time you're in your late 60s, being over 300 pounds becomes a hindrance. Being fat Sam for 40 years is not easy.

It's hard on a lot of things, especially joints and organs. So after a little bit in the hospital, he returns to his home to recover with the help of Crystal and Crystal's children, too. She has teenage kids now, so they're helping out also. Okay. Helping doing whatever. So there's a physical therapist and the director of the rehabilitation at National Healthcare Corporation Lawrenceburg named Regina Hall.

So physical therapist. Lawrenceburg named Regina Hall. So physical therapist. There's she said that he had come in that fat Sam came in and was admitted to their facility on April 14th, 2015. So it was right after his gig at Nana's Pizzeria. I mean, it's probably a blowout pizza. Yeah. Are you just partying hard after that?

It's like Woodstock. It goes on for three days. That's a lot of Peronis. It's a lot, a lot. So that day he came in. This was following his hospitalization for pneumonia and an atrial fibrillation and was discharged on April 26th. So he's in there for 12 days. For a cardiac event. Wasn't released because he was better.

No. days for a cardiac event didn't wasn't released because he was better no was released when his insurance coverage limit for inpatient rehabilitation treatment ran out and he's like fuck it i'll continue at home he can't he can't stay can't afford it so they kick him out that's all oh my god at the time of his release he could uh he could with difficulty stand unassisted from a seated or lying position. So with difficulty, he could get up. Yeah. They're saying, yeah, kick him out. He could walk approximately 200 feet with the aid of his rolling walker. So leaning on something that's not walking on your own and walk down the

hall, not 200 feet, just down the hall with a straight cane using the hallway handrail for additional support. Stop it. So a walker is what that is. The man can't do it. Yeah. If you need both hands to lean on something, it's a walker. Whether it's in front of you, one rail, one cane, two little people, you put your heads

on each of them, it's a walker. It's all a walker. We're going to put this man and send him home? Send him home. He's fine. Okay. They said his balance, though, was very poor, and his movements were labored. So she recommended that they continue therapy on an outpatient basis.

So come on back here and limp your ass in here every week or so. And we'll do this. Hope your house isn't more than 200 feet away. Yeah, good luck waving adam and shit park close uh this hall regina hall testified later on that he would he returned to the health center on april 29th for an insurance required assessment and reevaluation yeah to make sure that you know they didn't have to pay anymore after receiving insurance approval for outpatient therapy he was scheduled for his first appointment on May 14th, but he called to cancel because he wasn't feeling well.

I can't come into the hospital because I'm sick. I'm too sick. That's what happens. It's true. Okay. Yeah. And then he failed to show up, and this is all so he can feel better. That's the problem.

Right. So he also failed to show for his next appointment on May 18th, but came in that afternoon after they called to check on him. He was like, okay, I'll come in. Yeah. So he wanted to participate in therapy that day, but he said he was feeling unwell and was unable to do so but he would try that's basically what he said so he came in his blood pressure was 168 over 82 at the time it's high and uh yeah he

said that he had been to the cardiologist the previous week and learned that his irregular heartbeat was causing his blood pressure to rise oh no so now when he's at the health center this regina hall said that he weighed over 300 pounds yeah and she said that she scored him as independent on his occupational therapy tests and had driven he had driven himself to the therapy appointment she said that um she knew he had a reputation for violence by the way she had heard about him before she said that she quote knew he had gone to prison because of murder oh yeah and uh she said she remembered it because the incident happened when she was a little girl and at the time at that time and so she's a whole fucking town it's everybody knew from back then uh she did call him charismatic and kind and said he attended church. So while he's at this physical therapy session here, May 18th, 2015, Ashley Waller, who's

a physical therapy assistant here at the NHC in Lawrenceburg, she said that Fat Sam came to the facility for outpatient therapy at 3 p.m. on May 18th after missing his 1 o'clock appointment. As he entered, he walked slowly while using a straight cane and holding on to the hallway railing. Upon his arrival in the gymnasium, he told her that he was feeling unwell and didn't think he would be able to do therapy but wanted to try. They took his blood pressure, like we said, and it was elevated. That's where we're going to get to that point. So she determined that it would be in his best interest, that it would not be in his best interest to attempt therapy because of his heart right he's gonna have a

fucking a heart attack doing a stair stepper yeah she said that it didn't appear he would be able to do anything strenuous and she said because he was unsteady on his feet she accompanied accompanied him back to the vehicle you know held his arm so in lieu of a handrail yeah now you go on get out of here and have your heart attack elsewhere. Go on, get out of here. Go do it in the road. Go plow into a school bus. You get behind the wheel of this car and have yourself a fucking cardiac event.

Have yourself a nice heart attack there, sweetie. There, Uncle Tony. Yeah. So May 19th, 2015. So this is the next night. Yeah. So May 19th, 2015. So this is the next night. Yeah. Okay.

The next day, Crystal's 16-year-old son at the time, Josh, he went to check on Fat Sam. Uncle Fat Sam. Yeah. Yeah. Because Fat Sam had promised to attend Crystal's daughter's eighth grade graduation ceremony that day and didn't show up. Oh. Crystal's daughter's eighth grade graduation ceremony that day and didn't show up. Oh, so I guess Crystal told her son, go check on Fat Sam. Make sure he's OK. Make sure he's not going to fall down somewhere and he can't get up some shit like that. So he walks in the house.

He said when he got in there, the front door was unlocked, which is odd for a guy who sells drugs and has a bunch of cash in the house. Usually people just wandering in. If you've ever known any drug dealers, they usually have a real thing for locks. They love it. There's a bolt and a thing and a chain. It's like they collect them.

Yeah, they really want to make sure it's secure back there. A lock is a drug dealer's Pokemon. Yeah, it's the truth. Well, they have just untraceable securities in there basically it's just cash and drugs just things that are worth money that you could never get back that you can't say we're stolen yeah get guns same shit so uh he goes in and he said that he walked in the door went inside and i'll let josh say from here he said i just came to my uncle tony's house and i opened the door this is on 9-1-1, by the way, the 9-1-1 call.

And I opened the door and he's laying on the bed. He's dead. There's blood everywhere. He's screaming. There's blood everywhere saying he's dead. Okay. So the they said it was Josh Brown. He made the call at 850 p.m. upon the discovery of the body.

They call at 8.50 p.m. upon the discovery of the body. The chief of the Lawrenceville Police Department is one of the first two officers to respond to the 911 call, which is a terrible sign for a department's police department. 911, this is the chief. This is the chief. That's a bad one. All right, I'll be on over. You shouldn't do that. You're dealing with a hopper situation at that point. And as we know from the first season of Stranger Things, that police force was not operating on all cylinders not a great police

force no so they couldn't figure much out so yeah they said that this guy the chief said when he shows up he found a semi-hysterical josh weeping outside and and fat sam in a worse condition inside. Yeah. So they took some crime scene photographs. Fat Sam is lying on his bed, on his back in a pool of blood. Okay. His walker is beside the bed, and a candle is burning on his nightstand. Huh. Okay, so he wants it nice and romantic to be murdered here. Yeah.

Josh said that he had known him, obviously. He calls him Uncle Tony. He knows him very well. But he wasn't even able to recognize him due to the damage that had been done to his face and head. Oh. Unrecognizable carnage in here. This is a harvest. This isn't a gunshot wound to the head.

This is a- I was just going to say, how high was his fucking blood pressure? Did it grenade out of his chest it just popped his fucking head no this is more bastard multiple weapons multiple injuries this is horrible we'll get all into this but it is gross so um uh he said that there were no windows in the adjoining bathroom and only one entrance and exit door from the apartment just as he notes all this stuff yeah detectivesives arrive, and they discover Passarella here,

lying on his bed, feet on the ground. So, lying with your feet on the ground, you know what I mean? That's weird. If you flop and you're like, ah, what a day. One of those. Or you're so drunk, you get the spins of the bed. The bed hits the back of your knees and you

fall over. Yeah. One of those. So they said large pool of blood under his head. An investigator comes in here and they say that there's a bathroom on the right side of the room, a nightstand on the side of the bed nearest the bathroom, and a chest of drawers on the opposite side of the bed, and a mirror dresser at the foot of the bed with a path between the dresser and the bed. So it gives you a

layout. Layout of the room. Yeah, absolutely. He's got a bunch of shit here. He's really built up some furniture in his two years out of prison. I wonder if he kept his shit in a storage unit or something for 30 years. I hope so. He's got more than I've got. That's a very impressive collection. That's a lot of furniture. I don't have all

that either. So he's dressed in pajama bottoms and white socks that's what he's wearing lying on his back across the bed feet at the floor toward the bathroom his head toward the chest of drawers there's a white shirt uh lying on his shoulder next to his face there so like a white shirt there. A bread knife, which appears to be in a bread knife, is a big, long serrated fucker. They're nasty. That's a good way to put it. Serrated fucker. They are fuckers. I hate those knives so much.

I've cut myself probably five times with a knife in the last 15 years. Every single fucking time was with a bread knife. They're terrifying dangerous knives it's the only knife in my kitchen that i look at it with fucking disdain you son of a bitch look at you you want to serrate my fingers off you cocksucker i know what you want you bet you cannot have a taste of me no red knife is thirsty for blood. It's a bloodthirsty motherfucker. It is. It's horrible. He's

got this horrible bloodthirsty murderous son of a bitch. It's in his hand though. Serrated fucker. It's in his hand. It's a sword for defense. He hasn't been stabbed or anything with this knife. He got the right one.

He's got the bread knife. If I wanted to defend myself, I would grab that bread knife in a second. Oh, yeah, motherfucker, this thing will cut you to the bone. Trust me. This motherfucker's bloodthirsty. Blood to one swipe, your head is off. Popping right off your head. Bloodthirsty.

Fuck. Fuck, I hate that knife. But I have to use it so much. You gotta use it. It's the only thing that cuts bread. You better not, you son of a bitch. It's the only thing that's long and serrated to cut bread. It's a mess.

Oh, man. So it's in his right hand, the knife, and his hand is on top of his stomach. So it's like, lean your hand on your stomach with a big bread knife there. They look around. They find his cell phone. That's good news. Bad news is they can't look into it at all

because they found it submerged in the toilet bowl. Oh, God damn it. So someone put it in the toilet bowl and they found a large knife, like a butcher knife, missing from his kitchen knife block. Oh, shit. Two knives missing. One's in his hand. One's nowhere to be found. Yeah. Okay. found a large knife like a butcher knife missing from his kitchen knife block oh shit two knives missing one's in his hand one's nowhere to be found yeah okay they find a bottle of bleach

left out on the countertop we'll talk about that as well in more detail um left out it's the only thing sitting on the countertop yeah which they go did someone try to clean up in here like what's going on this is making everybody suspicious even more. The police captain said the victim was known for carrying large amounts of cash and prescription medication, and there was no prescription medication or money located at the crime scene. So they were like, we're interested in that. Could have been a robbery. That's his way of saying might have been a robbery. Yeah.

You know, these drug people. Yeah. Who knows? So that's his way of saying that. So the injuries to him. Let's find out what happened to Fat Sam here, because this is who, man. Medical examiner determines that he'd been struck over 20 times in the head with what appeared to be a claw hammer. Oh, dear God.

That is fucking brutal. When it appears to be a claw hammer you know what end that means there's so much damage yeah because otherwise it just yeah it's just a hammer unless you gotta get some waffle print might be a finishing you never know but otherwise you're oh jesus that's brutal think about that it really is everybody 20 20 oh shit man One is horrible to think about. 20 is, wow, that is horrific. His skull is crushed. Well, yeah, multiple fractures to his skull, and part of his right ear was torn off as well. Yeah, those things.

The claw got it. It'll get you, yeah. Two deep lacerations in his neck had punctured his jugular vein. His throat was cut twice. Wow. As if it's not enough to bash a guy in the head 20 times with a claw hammer here. The backside of a claw hammer. Holy shit.

So the autopsy, the forensic pathologist who performed it said that he sustained at least 20 separate blunt force injuries to the head and torso, two sharp force injuries to his neck, and blunt force bruising on his chest and on his stomach

and bruising on his arms. Somebody's mad. Fuck. Part of the victim's right ear had been cut off or hit off. There were multiple fractures of the face and skull, including multiple broken bones on the skull on the right side on the top of his head, as well as multiple fractures of the bones around the eyes. My God.

And fractures of deep facial bones as well. So it's not even just on the surface. They said his neck had been cut in two places. Okay. One of the cuts injuring the victim's thyroid and creating a significant hole in the victim's jugular vein. Jesus Christ. Bleeding, bruising, and swelling had occurred in the victim's brain

no shit sure yeah they estimated it would have taken 10 to 15 minutes from the time the trauma began for the amount of swelling to occur in the brain that happened 15 minutes of beating this man of be of an intense beating um she said the swelling would have stopped at his death after his heart stopped pumping so that's yeah so he had to be alive through that whole fucking thing oh absolutely yeah they even said that uh he was still alive at the time that his throat was cut too jesus christ they said based on the appearance of the wound and the amount of blood they said it would take in a matter of a few minutes for him to bleed out or bleed to death from the cut in his jugular vein.

So skull. This is horrible. Skull. Toughest man alive. This is crazy stuff. Wow. And she also said this doctor, in her opinion, the blunt force trauma she observed to his body was consistent with having been caused by a weapon similar to a claw hammer um and yeah she has autopsy photographs including one showing a large hinge fracture of his skull that was only visible after she lifted the scalp

this is a this is a fucking blood vicious beating yeah vicious horrible just beating man this is rough so um items in the home that they look through it. They said no narcotics of any kind, no cash in the apartment. They said a kitchen chair was underneath the working ceiling light fixture. So it worked. In his bathroom. And his cell phone was in the toilet bowl. So the chair, somebody changed the light bulb out.

Yeah. And it's not him because he's not climbing on a fucking chair sure that's not happening you can't take a walker up a chair it doesn't work you can't walk 200 fucking feet man yeah he's not climbing a chair and not falling off he's got bad balance too so they said due to the length of the time the phone was submerged no data was recoverable from it shit uh in the kitchen they found the butcher block containing a set of white handle kitchen knives that matched the bread knife that was found in his right hand. In front of the knife was

a bottle of Mean Green. Yeah, the cleaner. The degreaser. That's the nasty degreaser cleaning shit. It is crazy shit, yeah. Oh, it stinks too. It smells so bad. And they think it smells good. They're convinced it smells nice. That's the worst smelling cleaner on the planet. It will clean out your sinuses, though.

Sure. The sinus problem, they'll be like, whoa, hey, I just burned every bit of membrane off my sinus canal and down to my lungs. I'd rather brush my teeth with Fabuloso than ever smell that shit ever again. It's so bad. So they said that contains bleach, and they said that everybody there, law enforcement officers who investigate crime scenes and have any training at all know that bleach destroys DNA. That's a problem. That's why people use it, because it works. Now, a friend says about him that he was, quote, about Fat Sam, he was an avid gardener, a popular singer, a great cook, and a notorious crime figure.

Okay. All right. That's one way to eulogize a guy. I found words for everything he does. Everything he does. So let's talk about the blood spatter a bit, because the blood spatter is a big part of this here. The investigator will say that although, by the way, this is investigator Goetz, and he said, although he's not a certified expert on this. Perfect. You can end your sentence right there. Yeah.

It's enough. We've heard plenty from you. And then go get a certified expert and have him do this. For sure do this. Because I don't want you looking over blood stuff and going, I have a pretty good idea about this kind of thing. What do you do? Well, my last name's Goats. That's what I do.

I like goats. Yeah. That's like your car breaks down. Guy pulls over and he goes, oh, let me take a look at it. You go, you know how to fix cars? And he goes, well, my daddy owned a Ford dealership. That doesn't mean you know how to fix cars. Keep driving, motherfucker.

Your dad had cars that you looked at. Get the fuck out of here. That's the equivalent of that. I'm a dentist. I'm car adjacent, you know. No, but I drive one. Fuck you. Get out of here.

I drive every day. Every damn day. I've been driving for a long time now. Now, he says, although he's not an expert, he has extensive training in homicide investigations, which mean you would know stuff after you do 50 homicide investigations you pick some shit up i would assume whatever your training is you learn from other officers too the problem is exactly if you're the guy saying it you need to be the guy who's the most professional at this so this involved the use of blood spatter and blood sling evidence is what he did training in a lot. He said he explained that blood splatter, blood spatter, as we've explained before, is when blood is cast from a body upon impact.

The blood sling is what occurs when blood is cast from an object to strike a victim. So hammer you pull the hammer back. It sprays up on the ceiling. Spatter back, sling forward. Other way. What? Sling back, spatter forward. Is that right? back it sprays up on the ceiling batter back sling forward other way what sling sling back spatter forward when you hit somebody the spatter the blood that comes out of them is spout oh got

it okay when you swing it back to hit him again that sling that goes up on the ceiling that cast off or cast off but they called it this in this in this course and in the court documents they call it that but i've always heard it as cast off too that's what i was here so um they said that uh this this thing here at this particular crime scene they said there was a lack of blood spatter or blood sling in the area around the chest of drawers in the bedroom window where his head was okay there should be a shitload of spatter from bashing someone's skull in and 20 fucking times there should be spatter and sling all over the place yeah this it should just be he should change his band name to spatter and sling at this point because it's going to be everywhere so but they said that instead um that they said

this indicated that the perpetrator must have been behind him when he hit him based on there there was no blood spatter on the bread knife also what which indicated that it must have been placed in his hand after his death because otherwise it would have to do that his blood spatter oh i don't know make it look like he was coming at him maybe who knows okay we'll talk about it so they go to talk to josh who found him to see if did you move anything just by accident? Did you trip over anything? Come here, hysterical child. Yeah, hysterical teenager.

Come here for a minute. So they do that. He said that Josh said he'd grown close with Fat Sam, and he was distraught when he spoke to them and everything like that. When Goat's there, the investigator, he exits the apartment. Crystal was outside standing beside a police car in which josh was sitting in yeah so they end up a couple days later they they go to do a formal interview they just do some basics did you see anything anything misplaced did you see anybody in the yard no no no okay we'll do a formal sit down with you in a couple days so they uh head over to uh to crystal's trailer

yeah so at the crystal chateau here um the agent says that he saw uh that he saw her uh that night obviously because he was saying they saw you the other night when you were there picking up your son and they said the next day he and two other law enforcement officers talked to her at her trailer home she shared with her boyfriend, Jonathan Howell. And they said at that time, one of the officers pointed out a trail of shoe prints leading from the trailer out into some deep mud in the backyard. Yeah. yard yeah so they said that um they said it was a lot of reddish clay mud substance all over the deck crystals deck and footprints leading up the hill uh into deep mud they said well you know why are we walking around in the mud and she said i was walking the dog so that's why okay i when i walk my dog i like to take him in the muddiest part possible

that's the last place i'm taking the last place is the mud you go over here there's no mud so i don't have to clean your feet off before we go inside so yeah he said that um she said yeah she walked the dog now josh said he and his mother that night of the killing had dinner with fat sam okay so yeah they talked that's what he said they talked to crystal she said yeah that's exactly He and his mother that night of the killing had dinner with fat Sam. Okay. So yeah, they talk. That's what he said. They talked to crystal.

She said, yeah, that's exactly what happened. We had dinner. She answers questions about Sam's habits and told the detective that she had not seen him since she ate with him on the 18th. That was the last time she saw him. Okay. She ate with him.

Meanwhile, though, she sent the kid over to see where he was. Yeah. Because he didn't show up for the graduation. Yeah. But she ate dinner with him. Couldn't she have asked him then?

Couldn't she do that? Yeah. That's what I mean. That doesn't make any sense. And a lot of this doesn't make any sense, as we'll talk about. Okay. Because it'll make sense in the end. Don't worry.

Okay. I'm not gonna just put out a mystery here so her fiance jonathan howell the fucking yeah not incompetent drug dealer yeah the most unreliable man on the planet who she fired by the way she fired who got fired from dealing pills she according to her anyway allegedly uh he confirmed her statements but the detectives here said they felt like there was just something off about the whole thing like it was just a real like i don't know we saw him then we didn't see him anymore and they weren't being forthcoming they didn't they hadn't brought enough that they sell pills for him or any of that shit yet too so

there is a lot that they're not telling him so based on this information because she said you might want to check on there's an envelope there that has some information that in in fat sam's apartment you might want to check on hold on what yeah that's what she tells the cops there's some information he's got a manila envelope that he's been looking over and i don't know what's in there but you might want to look in there because it might have something to do with something so that's what they do. Have you guys looked in the manila yet? And they hadn't they head back to his apartment where

they uncover a manila envelope containing Tennessee Bureau of Investigation discovery documents in the case of an individual who'd been arrested on drug charges and in these documents this man named fat sam is one of the people to whom he supplied drugs uh-oh so yeah so they go oh shit okay that's

somebody that sam might be upset with yeah snitching on him and and how does he have uh tennessee fbi shit that's the other thing he got that stuff, which if you have a connection, you can do that. According to the investigator, the documents here named Fat Sam as giving marijuana several pounds a week to this person. So basically being a middleman for this. And that he thought that he had determined who he thought he had determined who the snitch was. And he had determined who he thought he had determined who the snitch was and he had approached an individual and so uh crystal was telling them that sam was possibly killed over these these papers like maybe it was the guy that he was mad at maybe he confronted the guy and the guy

killed him yeah i mean sam's not that sturdy on his feet some guy could have snuck behind very easy yeah yeah he's easy to take out so they're like interesting interesting so what they do is they follow up on the lead and interview the quote-unquote snitch yeah but it doesn't go anywhere oh um yes in the discovery documents it included a signed statement of a david quote daisy dover oh yeah that's that's the guy um in which he stated he imported marijuana from mexico and sold 10 or 12 pounds of it per week to uh fat sam sam yeah 10 or 12 pounds a week fat sam is moving volume shit load of weed and pills that's a lot so crystal story here um they talked to her a little more because they keep talking to her because she's kind of over his house all the time and is the closest to him like that. She's a confidant.

Yeah. So the investigator concluded that Fat Sam had such a close relationship with Crystal and her son that her son Josh always referred to him as Uncle Tony all the time. My Uncle Tony, Uncle Tony. So he acknowledged that Josh had spent the entire weekend with him at his apartment helping him out. Josh had been there all weekend and that they had eaten with. They said, OK, must have been Fat Sam ate with Crystal and Josh the night he was killed. And then we don't know that we don't know anything else. There was no indications in the victim and which is fat Sam and Crystal's text messages that they had argued about anything that they were upset with each other. Nothing like that.

So Crystal, here's her story. The following day, they returned to her home and talked to her again. And the investigator said, I was under the impression that they weren't really telling us everything that they knew. So, yeah, they contact her again, and she says, You're right. I didn't tell you everything. You nailed it. You nailed it. Great job, police.

You know what? You guys, wow, you're like clairvoyant, you guys. Yeah. Super clairvoyant, and she said that, I didn't tell you everything, and I didn't tell you the whole story, but not because I don't want to tell you the whole story. I don't want you to get to the bottom of this. My fiance was there and I couldn't say shit in front of him. That's what the problem was.

Oh, he was there while we were talking. While we were talking. Yeah, we were all in my trailer. So she apparently, according to the prosecutor later, she tells them that she and Sam had a romantic relationship and that they loved one another oh which she had told other people too that she loved him and they loved each other but they didn't have sex okay so she i guess she's talking to them her fiance is at work and she told the investigator that she had a few things to tell them couldn't say it in front of her boyfriend she said that they loved each other and had been involved in a romantic relationship her and sam okay but this relationship only involved kissing and cuddling they had no sexual intercourse due to his impotence oh fat sam's he can't let me get

this straight this is a guy who has access to any prescription drugs he wants. In volume. But he didn't get himself a hard-on pill to fuck a 35-year-old? To fuck a woman half his age? Come on now. That guy... Yeah, that guy will get the shots and shoot it himself. He'll have a dresser drawer full of fucking pills that'll make

his cock hard if there's an opportunity for it. He can do other things. I don't know if his heart can handle it or not, but... I'm sure he'd love to go out that way that's i mean you're 69 it will go out that way who cares yeah so she said that not that you should die at 69 but i mean if your health is awful and you're gonna your heart's gonna explode any second anyway you go well i guess this is the best way i could think of it's a good run it's not bad she said that she went to his house whenever she and her fiance had an argument and that her fiance was very jealous of fat sam oh very jealous but she said they said do you think he could hurt fat sam and she said she did not believe

that her fiance would harm sam um and she said that I don't think he had the opportunity to do it either. So, you know, I don't think so. So she said that he meaning Fat Tony or Fat Sam, Fat Uncle Tony. Yeah. Fat Uncle Sam Tony. Doesn't matter. Fat Uncle Sam Tony was kind to her and her children and sometimes gave her money as well. Oh.

Just for the fuck of it. Yeah. She also said that since his release from prison, he's been doing dealing drugs and all that. She lays that out. They already knew that. But now she tells them they she they said that the investigator says later, Sam, since he had been out of the penitentiary, had created a small network of friends and new

acquaintances and actually had his own small little enterprise going where he was buying prescription drugs and reselling them, which we know. So during the same conversation, Crystal also tells the investigators about the discovery documents at the home again. She mentions them again. She's like, what about that guy? She also mentioned a man named Sean Tierney. Oh? Sean Tierney, who she says, i know that's his real name but everybody

calls him quote big new york what is this place big new york and she said he might have killed him also you want to look into him probably so she's yeah i guess new york is that that fucking storied for being dangerous like that right right? We're not getting gangsters and shit. I mean, yeah. You hear the words New York and kind of be Italian or Irish and people are scared. A little Irish or a little Italian. You go, oh, you know who I'm with? And they go, hey, oh, all right.

Never mind. All right, all right. Hey, yeah, leave him alone now. So they said they followed up on this lead and it went nowhere as they found this. Sean Tierney had been in North Carolina with his family at the time of the killings. So the killing. So he definitely wasn't the guy. So, wow.

Crystal then came to the Lawrenceburg Police Department on May 22nd to provide additional information. Little more. Yeah. And they look at her as a good source because she knows all the people he's involved with. No one else does. She said, how about there's a guy named Damien who she claimed that his phone, I guess this guy Damien used to use Fat Sam's phone to communicate with Sean Tierney. Okay. use fat sam's phone to communicate with sean tierney okay so they said that mr tierney had

threatened to kill uh fat sam via a text message on damien's phone however when they pursued that lead they found no threat on the phone in the records so her information sucks her information which in the drug world it's a lot of rumors. And this one told that one. And I heard that. I mean, there's no official record here. Intimidation is what rules that whole game. Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. That's the thing.

Now, months go by. Oh, my God. Like eight of them. You can't find who murdered a 300-pound man in eight months. No idea. Maybe that's because when the chief shows up first what are the odds so i feel like you guys might be outmatched it might be outgunned here so february 4th 2016 is the next time agent wesson who's the lead investigator at this point that's the next

time he talks to her wow may 22nd 2015 to febru 4th, 2016. Okay. He had eliminated all other possible any leads. They're all dead ends. Nobody did this that he could find. This is a cold case. So he's trying to track down Crystal to talk more to her, and he finds out that she's in jail in Giles County. That's where she is.

So he goes to Giles County, and she goes for for her courtroom appearance and he sits down next to her. Hey, Crystal. Hi. How's it going? He said, I got something else to do today, which I don't know why you showed up then. I got something else to do today, but I want to interview you at another time. I'm going to be back at another time to interview you. Whoa.

Which seems like a terrible strategy if you're suspicious of someone. Yeah, because that's going to make them have a story now that they can get straight i need to start thinking yeah i need you to really have a line of bullshit for me when i see you sometime in a few days start writing so that very evening this is just he he was out of leads and took it upon himself that crystal knows something i'm going going to talk to her. He goes there on spec says, I'm going to come back at another time. Then that evening by complete coincidence, allegedly here, um,

he receives a call from a Carl Rodden. Now, Carl Rodden is one letter away from raw dog, by the way, which I think is awesome. R a W D O N. Almost Carl raw dog, which would be a great name pretty good it's a good name for a porn actor so and he's furious that it's not that i know he calls

himself carl raw dog he just puts a he rounds out the bottom of the end and puts a little thing on the bottom of it he's like there we go raw dog friends to call him that call me raw dog please now he is the the trailer landlord for crystal he owns the trailer and he said that by the way he had been she had been kicked out she said that or uh carl says that um she had lived there at the time of the death but then she paid three hundred dollars per month on the trailer for three months made her last payment in April of 2015 and by May of 2015 she was gone after that no she was just left the trailer

and later on got arrested for drugs in another county so they talked to him and he said that yeah fat Sam was crazy about Crystal loved her super into her as someone twice her age would probably be into her you know super into her as someone twice her age would probably be into her you know how many other 35 year old women are paying attention to him and kissing him

and cuddling with him so apparently he says now i called you guys carl raw dog i called the cops because yesterday i was uh cleaning some stuff out of the trailer and doing some stuff around the yard, doing a little yard work. And in a chert pit. What the hell is that? C-H-E-R-T? Chert pit? I guess that's where you burn trash? Is that a burn trash pit?

I have no idea. Never heard of it. It's located behind this trailer. And he said, well, I dug this up. I saw something sticking out of the ground buried. And so I dug up this area here to find out what it was. And I found a plastic shopping bag with a bunch of stuff in it you guys might be interested in. What's in it? Well, some very interesting things.

In this are an Austin Peay University red bag is in this, okay, which is in Texas, as we know, because we did that Fly Williams Crime and Sports episode. A yellow and black claw hammer. Oh, shit. Partially wrapped in a black latex glove. Really? A black handle kitchen knife, a white handle kitchen knife, like the one in Sam's block. Right. A blackish gray lace throwover, so like kind of a shawl thing, you know, but a lacy one that women wear. A white I Heart New York t-shirt.

That old trope. That old one. A white and black leopard print shirt, a striped bath towel, and four empty pill bottles. Okay. Three of the pill bottles were prescriptions in Fat Sam's name. Uh-oh. Yep.

All of which had been filled on April 27, 2015. A 120-count bottle of 30-milligram oxycodone. Oh. That's a bunch. A 45-count bottle of 350 milligram somas those are the wrestlers favorites in the 90s there that's a big one too those are big and a 90 count bottle of 10 milligram diazepam as well so the fourth bottle did not have legible label on it but it appeared to have contained a non-prescription medication they said just something those three are just like a car accident uh oh christ right

there oh my god yeah you've broken your neck and your hips relax the muscles kill the pain and then uh fall asleep yeah fall the fuck asleep that's what that is yeah so they say the tbi special agent forensic scientist char Casalbono. How many Italians are down here? What's going on? Where did this guy come from? All the Italian people in all of Tennessee. This is where they all moved.

He's an expert in forensic biology. He said that, or she said it's a Charlie is the name. I guess not Charlie. Charlie. It might be Charlie. Charlie or Charlie. charlie charlie there it might be charlie charlie or charlie uh she obtained a limited inconclusive dna profile from the latex glove that was partially wrapped around the hammer she said dna degrades quickly from items that are exposed to the outdoor elements absolutely so another tbi

special forensic scientist dabney kirk is an expert in latent print analysis, and she said that she was unable to lift any identifiable print from any of the evidence submitted. So no physical evidence there, but it's all buried in her backyard, which is a terrible sign. It's not a good place for it to be. Also, if it's a chert pit, if that is a burn pit, you put metal items in a plastic bag and put it in it and it didn't burn? No, no. She buried it. It's buried under the thing.

It's in the mud, buried. Jesus Christ. This was buried and then recovered and they just saw there was a piece of plastic bag sticking out of the ground. They're like, what the hell is that? And it was buried under there. She thought that just goes away when it's out of sight, out of mind. I buried it. That's what the dog does.

Seems to work for him. So they go, we're going to go have a little chit chat with Crystal here while we got her in jail. So they return to Giles County. Now they got a lot to talk about. They didn't have as much to talk before. He was just going to go in and go. So tell me more. And she's, well, I don't have any more.

And he's going to go, I think you do. And she's going to go, no, I don't. Now they have something to talk about. So she heads right back. either he heads right back over she waives her rights and says sure i'll talk why not yeah i have nothing to hide yeah and she's gonna give about three different statements over the next 24 hours here is that right oh yeah yeah um so by the way she was in jail on a parole violation for a drug charge and on parole for, I think, a drug charge as well. Probably.

Yeah. So that's wild. So they found all this shit behind her house. Now, in her first statement, she says that she was in Fat Sam's bathroom when Shane Hughes, another person. Who the fuck is that? That's what I mean. Another person. Everybody's name is Shane or Sean that sells drugs in Tennessee apparently.

Shane Hughes came to the apartment to argue with Fat Sam about Sam's cutting him off from his pain pills. He's owed money and he cut him off. So she said that she heard them fighting and arguing and then she heard Sam John cry out. them fighting and arguing and then she heard sam john cry out when she came out of the bathroom she said i just watched him take his last breath he was taking his last breath you just put yourself at the crime scene there you go i watched the man take his last that's it okay well now we're gonna dig into that like your burn pit, you're in so much trouble. That's the thing. Criminals think, murder investigation subjects seem to think if I just admit to something that I know they think I don't want to admit to,

then they'll think they cracked me and then I can get away with it. But all they see is like, oh, I just opened the box a drop and now I got to bust it open the whole way. I just put you in a room with blood everywhere. I did it right now. And you not immediately calling 911. Right. To say what happened. So she said that, you know, she heard Psalm take his last breath.

She said that Shane Hughes buried the evidence in the pit to frame her. Oh. That's what Shane did because Shane knew that she was there. So rather than have her be able to tell on him, he'll bury the stuff in her yard. That way they'll think it's her. And if she tries to say it's him, then it's just her getting out of it. Well, here's the thing, babe. You just told me the things that I have are the murder weapons and you just put them in your hands not anybody else's so in your yard right and after you saw him take his last breath so really all you've done is said i've murdered a

man that's so she tells her whole story and agent wesson leans in and says, I don't believe that at all. Bullshit. I don't believe a fucking word you've just said. Try again. Next. I don't believe you. So she said, okay, okay, I'll tell you the truth then. You're right. You're right. I was lying.

That was bullshit. I'm sorry. You're right. You're absolutely right. But she said, this is the truth, though, okay? I was trying to protect somebody, and now I'll let it out because you guys are too smart for me, obviously. Listen, Aaron. She said, listen, that night my fiancé came with me, Howell.

He was with me to Fat Sam's house, and he got into an argument with Fat Sam and killed him. Not Sean? Not Sean. It was my fiance howell she said i tried to stop him i really did i was trying to stop him but i couldn't stop him he was like he was possessed so she said she cleaned the crime scene now she just told everybody now it's worse she cleaned the crime scene and went home with Howell, even though he just murdered a man where they buried the evidence,

including, um, her bloodstained. I heart New York t-shirt. Well, she was trying to stop him from bashing him. There's blood everywhere. She can help it.

Yeah. I cleaned, I got it everywhere. It's, it happens, man. So based on this statement, they go,

all right. And they go talk to Jonathan Howell. Let's talk to you. See what you have to say. And, um, they go, all right. And they go talk to Jonathan Howell. Let's talk to you. See what you have to say. And they confronted. He said, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. That is not true. I wasn't over there.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what you're saying, basically. Yeah. And they believe him. The detectives believe him. They think he's not lying. So they return again to her and Crystal and they go, hey, listen. We know where to find you still.

You're still in jail. So, yeah, we're just going to keep coming here. And they said, you know, we don't believe that that happened here with him, with your fiance. The one cop said Jonathan loved Crystal. He could not believe she was accusing him of this. He was like how would she say that what are you talking about so she even made a big handwritten statement and the detective showed him the statement is any of this true and shit he was like that's her fucking handwriting this is true why would she say that because at first she's like he's like she didn't say that. And then they're like, recognize those hearts over the eyes, chief?

You love that long, curly Y? You know that. You know who that is, don't you, sir? So Howell here, the fiance, he said that Crystal worked for Fat Tony selling pills or Fat Sam selling pills. He said this relationship made him uncomfortable. Sam selling pills. He said this relationship made him uncomfortable. He said the night of the 18th he stayed home while Crystal

and her kids had dinner with Fat Tony, or Fat Sam. Does he even sell pills? No. She sells the pills. Did he ever? He doesn't sell pills anymore. He did. He did it first. That's how they got together. That's how they met. He was selling pills for Fat Sam. I was just wondering if

that was just a ruse that she said to get him involved. You know what I mean? But he definitely was involved. Yeah, yeah. He was selling when they met. So Crystal, Howell said Crystal brought the kids home, then headed back to Fat Sam's place. She didn't come back until the early hours of the morning. And then she admitted to me that she actually

killed fat sam oh my so now not only that he flips on her now and goes i knew about it she got homer in the early hours and told me what happened yeah i can't believe she would say something like that i'm the accomplice not her yeah i'm i'm the after the fact what are we talking about here i'm the one that gets 10 to 15 not her got the fuck so well he didn't touch anything he just no she just told him about it he was like whoa that's crazy he didn't clean a crime scene dump any evidence he just didn't say shit so they go back and they go crystal yeah no we don't believe you at all. So what really happened? Tell us, Crystal. And she said, okay, fine.

Fine. You've backed me into a corner. I have no choice. I'll tell you what happened. I did kill him. But it was all self-defense. That's all it was. It was pure self, the most pure self-defense.

He's a killer. He's a murderer. He kidnapped a guy and He's a murderer. He kidnapped a guy and killed him. Jesus Christ. So that's what she's saying. She said that, man, she said that she admitted that she had alone killed him, but claimed self-defense. She said, and then she does a statement that we'll talk about here. She says that, that she didn't even want to sell drugs.

Oh, fat Sam coerced her into selling drugs under the threat of violence made her do it you sell drugs for me i'll beat the shit out of you lady or else you got three kids i'll hurt them all i'll hurt all of them when she attempted to quit on the night of may 18th that's what she said she went over there to say no more my conscience is eating me up, sir. I'm tired of selling 12 pounds a week and making all this money. I can't do it. She said she tried at that point when she tried to quit.

That's when he tried to make good on his threats and attack her and kill her. So she had to beat him with a hammer that she found lying next to his bed conveniently. And then she said, I just stabbed him twice in the neck to make sure he was dead. That's all. So this is her statement. He had that serrated fucker. It was serrated. It was fucking dude.

You know how many times I've cut myself on that? Jesus. I cut a bagel one time. Almost took my pinky finger off. They're dangerous. I smelled all the everything seasoning in the world i lost it i lost my mind he she said that night they picked up chinese food or he did fat sam picked up chinese food with which he he shared this with her and her son

at the apartment so josh was there he then told um told crystal to take Josh home because Fat Sam was about to transact a, quote, big drug deal. Oh, we got a big one to go. I got a big drug deal tonight, everybody. That's what drug dealers always say. Got a real whale tonight. Everybody, big drug deal coming through. The Yakuza's coming to Tennessee. Oh, it's going to be amazing.

The Yakuza, the Gambino family, everyone's going to be here. So he said, or she said in her statement, quote, when I arrived back at Sam's house after I dropped Josh off at home on the 18th of May, Sam asked me to go into the bedroom and help put away some laundry, which is normal things that she does. She helps him out around the house she said i went into the bedroom at approximately 10 30 p.m may 18th he followed behind me yeah okay he pushed me onto the floor and started yelling at me and waving a knife at me calling me a no good bitch whore okay You no good bitch fucking hooah. And said to stay on the floor like the dog that you are. Oh, she's a dog too. Yeah.

Yeah. And he sat on the bed while I was sitting on the floor crying. Yeah. She said that she got knocked on the floor from behind. That's how she fell down. He shoved her from behind because he's got such good balance and he's very sturdy. That's how she fell down. He shoved her from behind because he's got such good balance and he's very sturdy. She said when she tried to get up, that's when she said, when he said to her, bitch, you better stay on the ground like the dog you are.

Okay. Okay. She asked him, why are you doing this to me? Yeah. I always do. Why? And he accused her of trying to send him back to jail, trying to send me back to jail. He also threatened the lives of herself and her children as well, saying, quote, I got some wise guys coming to get you. Your kids are going to watch me kill you and then I'm going to kill them and throw your bodies in a hole and no one will ever find y'all.

Which right away, I know she's lying. Immediately. Liar! No Passarello has ever said the word y'all. Liar! Also, she's seen Casino because that's what she thinks. That's what she's painting. They're not putting your kids in a hole.

A bunch of wise guys. Tony Spilotro is going gonna come back from the dead to do this they're gonna come from brooklyn to south tennessee to do this and dig four holes and put four people in because some fat pill salesman needs them that's how it goes right that's how the mafia works yeah we're gonna whack a whole family. She said that he was wearing a white t-shirt and took it off and threw it at her. Saying, quote, I'm not going to get blood on that shirt, bitch. You're not worth it. Okay.

And that, also, that candle that's burning, see it? He said, you know why it's burning? Oh, he's got a burning saint. I'll say a prayer when you're past and when you're dead and gone. That's why. That's a prayer candle for you when you're dead. I was going to induct you into the family, but I decided not to.

I lit a candle like the Catholic Church in your honor. In your honor. That's what it is. Like I go to a mission to pray for the dead. He said that he knew I was double crossing him by messing with his suppliers meaning david daisy dover and taking business away from him you know yeah he also told me that he had two wise guys on their way to get me and whack my bitch ass these are exact quotes in the statement to quote whack my bitch ass and that jonathan howell was next okay what movie has she seen lots of them i feel like this is so dumb He proceeded to pick up his phone, indicating to me that the wise guys were being summoned.

I'm calling them right now. Hello, Big Vito, can you come down and kill people you've never met and have nothing to do with and have no impact on your living or money? Yeah, I know you don't know me, but I'm from Brooklyn from 50 years ago. Remember me? Okay. 50 years ago. Remember me? Okay.

So she said, as I was thinking that I was surely going to be killed, I started looking around on the floor where I was sitting and I saw a hammer laying under the bed.

I quickly picked up the hammer and just started swinging it. This is for her life. Wild, because the wise guys are coming. She said that he fell back

and gasped and yelped. All I could quote, all I could think was the wise guys were still coming. I would have. I want to do. I want to do the interrogation. I would have been laughing in her face. Why are you laughing? Because this is fucking ridiculous.

Tell me more. Is this a screenplay you're trying to put together? I want to watch this. Is this the, like, are you trying to do, like, a Breaking Bad spec to get a writing job somewhere else or something? What's happening here right now? I started grabbing the evidence and tried to collect everything as I rushed out the door, which is what you do when you're in fear for your life. You're like, let me bleach stuff and really really do that shit um wow uh the last portion of the statement was handwritten by the agent put initials in every lines initialed and signed by her so yeah quote i threw his phone in the

toilet before i left the knife in his hand was placed there by me oh it's self-defense but i put the knife there to make it look even more self-defensive you know what i'm saying yeah i gathered things up and put them into bags and took them with me i took wash rags towels hammer two knives and my clothes i buried that stuff behind my old house sick trailer by the way yeah um i threw my shoes behind hilltop market which is a grocery store so murder shoes are back there anybody they were covered in red clay i threw them there on the morning of the 19th of may no one helped me cover this up or help me in any way i did this alone problem is that doesn't i don't want to accuse anybody of anything but if this her story i don't know which one is true but according to josh the son he was

sent over there after to after to after that he was over there already eating chinese food with them but he said he was there to check on him because he didn't show up earlier in the day at a graduation, which then they ate Chinese food. So they could have dealt with it. Then he came back. The timeline does not work at all for any of this. So I don't know what's going on.

And I assume it's her lying the whole time, whatever, whatever lies would make that fucked up. It's probably her and not the kid, you know what I mean? I'm not trying to blame him for anything. Christ. He was 16 years old at the time and dealing with his mother's bullshit.

So she said, when I hit him with the hammer, he fell and dropped the knife in his hand. I picked up the small knife he had and stabbed him in the neck with it. I thought he was probably dead, but I wanted to make sure. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. By the way, she left out i bashed his head in 20 times right with the fucking claw hammer she said she swung it wildly it was hit him oh it was tactically smashing his fucking head he fell down and it was like phew got out of that one better stab him to make sure no she hit him in the head with a claw hammer until she was tired and then stabbed him. That's what that is. So, wow. She said, I left there and drove straight home. The next morning

I got the stuff out of the truck and buried it. I took some bleach and water on a cloth and washed out the back of the truck. She said, I told my fiance about it months later. Which she had said earlier. She told him he said she told him that night.

So it also included another handwritten notation in the margin signed by her that said one of the knives I used to dig a hole with. That's an odd digging implement. A knife. Who digs a fucking hole with a knife? With one of the knives from from her own walk that was her knife the black one that was buried was her knife yeah to dig the hole rather than using the murder weapon to do it right you know two birds you know what i mean she was like let me get one of my knives then threw that out because it'd be in contact with other stuff so

yeah and they said you know she's a cop so she knew about dna and stuff like that because she had trained as a cop. She did those classes and everything. She said one of the knives I used to dig a hole with the other came from Sam's. The black one is the one I stabbed the victim with. OK, the black one, the white one was from his house, though. Yeah, the white one in the block. So the agent here says that she told him during her previous statement, in which she blamed it on Mr. Howell, that she sent text messages to Sam's phone on the day after the killing in order to cover her involvement. Like, where are you? How come you're not? What's going on?

They said during the course of his investigation, he was able to confirm that she had sent the two text messages to the phone after the death. I just figured out the timeline here. The kid came back the next, that's the next day. The next morning. It's the next evening. Oh my God. He's been lying there for almost 24 hours when the kid comes in. Yeah.

They had dinner over there the night before. The kid said, oh, where's the graduation? And then that next day he came over. So that's how that works. Okay. Yeah. So a little more info here. They said that, you know, this is the thing that makes this unbelievable is that he was

unable to walk without assistance and his blood pressure was so bad he couldn't do physical therapy. Right. He's not sturdy on his feet. Right. He's not a physical threat to anybody like if she he's sitting on a bed and she's sitting on the floor she could just get up and walk down the hallway and walk out the front door he can't chase her he literally can't so i mean you

could just walk away there's no problems in doing that so that's why they said self-defense probably unlikely here on this one yeah um they believe a little different motive they said this is a prosecutor said quote she was trying to squeeze sam out of his drug business and take it over that's what she wanted i think that's what she maybe wanted possibly so crystal's sister misty mcmaster's again the most 80s name of all time yeah wow jesus uh said that sam made regular two hundred dollar payments to her, to Misty on her sister Crystal's behalf because she had loaned her sister money and Sam would pay it back for her. Oh, yeah. Was making her payments for her. OK.

She said on two occasions when she was dining out with with Crystal, Fat sam had sent crystal threatening text messages demanding that she come to his apartment immediately each time she said crystal got up and left the restaurant telling misty that she was frightened of fat sam misty also said that she was aware of fat sam's reputation for violence hearing that he had murdered somebody in the past, obviously. She also said that the threatening text messages consisted of his telling Crystal that he would come and hunt her down if she didn't come to him immediately. Which is what you say to people who sell your drugs for you

when they're late with your money, too. That's the other thing. I don't know. This is fantastic. I love the inconsisten that and the lack of the lack of knowledge of really drug sales and how drug salesmen behave exactly fantastic but if they're also in a relationship like she says is that a more of like a domestic fucking i'm gonna hunt you down if you don't come home or is it where's my money? Because those are two very separate things. So she said that she told the agent, the agent Wesson, that Crystal was on drugs at the time of the murder, but would not concede to having said that law enforcement should investigate her as a suspect because they said the sister said that you should look at my sister.

And she said, I never said that. So she said she did not know if Crystal and Fat Sam were involved in an intimate relationship. Didn't know. Crystal's daughter, who was graduating from the eighth grade at the time of the murder, said that she once heard Fat Sam sitting in his living room curse at Crystal, who was in the kitchen, and threatened to kill her with his pen. I don't know. It's an odd threat.

That's not a very threatening threat. She's seen Casino. That's all it is. I think she saw one movie. She knows nothing about how this works. I haven't heard a Goodfellas reference either. It's coming. It's all Casino.

I think it's just Casino. I think she saw one movie. I really stuck's Jessica. I think she saw one movie. She's not going to see it. I really stuck with her. On another occasion, when Fat Sam was driving, the young girl here, the young girl's friend, and Crystal, all of them to dinner. So Crystal, her daughter, her daughter's friend. They were all driving to dinner, and I guess Crystal and Sam began to argue about money and drugs. And he threatened to drive his car off the road and kill everybody. Okay.

So that's interesting. They also said that, according to this daughter, Sam had boasted to her on more than one occasion about having kidnapped and murdered someone and buried the vehicle used in the crime. Right. That's what you tell children. I'm a murderer. That'll make them comfortable while they sleep. Now sleep tight. The fuck is that about?

You don't. I'll get you. Holy shit. Yeah. You better better go to sleep right now. Jesus. Oh, my God. This.

She said that the pen threat occurred when she was in the seventh grade and the threat to drive the vehicle off the road occurred when she was in the eighth grade. She also said, though, that Fat Sam regularly gave Crystal gifts and also gave her children gifts and paid for the outings they went on for all the kids to do shit and all that. She said that Sam never physically struck or harmed in front of her or to her knowledge, Crystal or any of the children. He just threatened to kill her with a pen and drive a car off the road. Another friend, Shane Hughes. Let's find out about Shane Hughes, our guy. Would-be murderer, according to her.

The most Irish man in town. The most Irish man in town. He said that once he helped Fat Sam assemble a bed using the hammer. The hammer that was there. He said, though, he didn't recognize. He said it was a hammer. He doesn't know if it was that hammer there. He said that on at least two occasions, he had helped Fat Sam out with his pill count by providing him with some of his own oxycodone to make up for a shortfall.

Hey, I got orders that I can't fill here. So he said on at least four or five occasions he wired money via Western Union on Fat Sam's behalf to a woman in another state. Oh. Whom he later learned was the Tierney guy who they brought up, the other guy that she accused. It was his girlfriend so he said to his knowledge hughes said that uh fat sam and crystal were just friends although he thinks fat sam would have liked a more intimate relationship sure of course he would that would make more yeah obviously so hughes also said that Fat Sam frequently became angry with Crystal.

And about six months before he died, he heard Fat Sam make the comment, quote, if I get that bitch in the right place one of these days, I might just have to kill her. And he also also said that he was he at one point said that he had to keep Crystal on a short leash. Drug dealing is not relationship wise. Or if she gets in the right situation, I might have to kill it. That might be what he means. If she fucks up,

I might have to make this girl disappear. Let's say she gets arrested with a bunch of shit. Yeah. And so Hughes also said he was adamant that, um, that fat Sam never asked him to kill anyone and said that if you know if um if fat sam called him on the night of may 18th it was about a different matter not killing someone it was about whatever the fuck he said that yes sam was a blowhard is what he called him

and said that he didn't believe that crystal was in danger when sam made the comment about having to kill her one day he said that he learned after Fat Sam's death that Fat Sam had been dealing prescription pills, quote, to a pretty good level. He didn't know he was that into it, I guess. So February of 2016, this is a year after all that, or that's later on this month, I'm sorry, they announced that Crystal has been charged

with one count of first-degree murder, one count of aggravated assault, one count of tampering with evidence, and one count of theft. Oh. She took a knife out of the house. That's theft. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. There you go. So the trial comes up. 2017, this is. Is that theft good enough to up it to a capital murder? Just a knife? That's one count of murder in the first degree. I mean, that's, yeah, I guess so.

And the tampering, I don't know. Tennessee, too. We'll talk about it. There's legal stuff in here. So 2017, the trial, there's photos and evidence. They said four autopsy photos. There's a shitload more, but the court is going to allow a certain amount of photos in that aren't egregious. Yeah.

Four autopsy photos consist of two views of the cleaned up victim's head showing the wounds to his eyes and top of his head a view of the victim's cleaned torso so these are autopsy table photos these aren't crime scene photos and head showing the bruises and wounds to his arm and the top of his hand okay very medical yeah they're very medical pictures it's not it's not a sloppy fucking murder scene well you have to prove to the jury how the person was killed you can't just say their head was bashed and you have to go you see the pictures because if that's the way it works otherwise the jury doesn't know the only things they know are things there are put in evidence

and show to them an autopsy autopsy photos about as clinical and medical as you're going to get in a in a murder scene it's cold yeah you don't yeah you don't want it's very very sterile uh i mean granted it's a dead body you're looking at but at least it's not a fucking dead body exploded on a bed hey they could throw an instagram filter or two on it don't get me wrong you know what i mean you don't mind give her this gray tone on the skin we could do a little of that but other than than that, it's really not. Maybe a Clarendon? Come on, help me out. I love it.

I love it. So that's how this goes here. Wounds to his arms, top of his hands, and a very clinical appearing view with the scalp apparently pulled back but not visible of the indentation or caved in portion of the top of his skull they said although not pleasant none of them are unduly gruesome they're just ones you have to put in there and then there's other a few other ones from the crime scene but these are the the nasty ones so wesson that agent wesson who has been you know tracked her down in jail and didn't believe her bullshit he testifies during this he says that he did not uncover any evidence that crystal had previously threatened because they cross-examine him he

presents all the evidence we just told you and on cross-examination he said no i did not uncover any evidence that crystal had previously threatened him or that anything unusual had occurred in their relationship prior to the night of the killing so you didn't find like any threats or any I'm not talking to you anymore or any of that shit. He said no. He further acknowledged that Fat Sam had a reputation in the community for violence. That is true. So he said he was aware that he'd been sentenced to the federal penitentiary in 1982 for two counts of kidnapping and was on parole for those crimes at his time at the time of his death. So the investigator goats here, who's the guy who's not an expert on blood spatter yeah just an

expert on goats just a guy loves loves goats he said that um he acknowledged that he learned that fat tony had spent time in prison for aggravated kidnapping and was on parole at the time of his murder after the murder obviously he also learned that Crystal had been trained as a law enforcement officer. Oh. He conceded that his own law enforcement training would lead him to shoot at the center mass to eliminate the threat of an individual

who was advancing on him with a knife. Because they were like, if you had police training and someone was coming at you with a knife, what would you do? Right. And he goes, center mass, blah, blah, blah. She didn't have a gun, number one.

Right, right. But she focused fucking straight ahead. All head shots. And if you buck off a bunch of shots in a fucking retirement community, someone's going to call the cops. Yeah, good point. They're a fucking team. So they said to eliminate the threat, he said that he, on redirect examination,

testified that he could not envision any scenario in which his training would instruct him to attack someone from behind. Yeah. So another detective, investigator Michael Reeves of the Lawrenceburg Police Department, is a graduate of 80 hours of blood spatter training. Hey. There you go. That's a guy. You know what that is? That's a, what's that called?

That's an expert. That's an expert, including an advanced blood spatter class used crime scene photographs as he described in detail the blood spatter evidence at the scene, which included the lack of blood behind him where. Right. The person would have been. Yeah. Yeah. And the sling would have gone back there and all that. On cross examination, Reeves acknowledged that he had never been declared an expert witness in the area of blood spatter evidence.

He further acknowledged that he had no proof that the victim's pill bottles were taken from his apartment on the night of the killing. Because they said, do you know when those were taken? She could have had those for months. And he said, yeah, sure, you're right. But why would she bury them with murder weapons then? That doesn't make any sense. Why are they paired with the exact thing that we're looking for? Anything you put in a bag with murder weapons is now part of it.

That's just all there is to it. That's not part of the evidence of why this happened. There's blood on it. So, you know, another detective, Captain Brent Hunter. Jesus, he sounds like a cop. Captain Brent Hunter here. Jesus, he drinks black coffee. Oh, no sugar, no milk. What do I have?

What kind of a pussy do you think I am? I'm like, Jesus, sorry. How do I take it? It only goes one way. Just coffee. Yeah. Matter of fact, put some grounds in there, too. I like to chew it a little.

Leave a few for that last sip. Straight black, and give me about a teaspoon. Instead of sugar, put fucking grounds in there, too. I'll put that in my lip. There we go. Yeah, that's better. And he's just like Copenhagen, but smells better. So this guy is of the Lawrenceburg Police Department's Criminal Investigation Division.

He has extensive training in blood spatter evidence and testified at length with respect to the blood spatter evidence, including what led him to conclude that an attempt had been made to clean the space. Said based on the appearance of the wiped through blood stains, you know, when you got blood stains and one is a big wipe through it with when you turn aluminum on. That's not good. Yeah. He estimated that some of the blood had been on the floor for a minimum of 20 minutes before it was disturbed. Oh. Which is a very specific thing to say here.

On cross-examination, he did acknowledge that Crystal had not done a very good job of cleaning the scene. She was trying to go fast. Yeah. But he declined to give an opinion on whether that fact indicated that she was in a frightened or panic state or anything like that. Because they're trying to say maybe she was so frightened and panicked from being attacked that's what happened. He did acknowledge that Crystal would have to have passed within an arm's length of Fat Sam

in order to exit his bedroom. They bring in an autopsy doctor and the autopsy doctor she agreed it was possible for Fat Sam was holding a weapon in his hand at the time his jugular was cut she acknowledged that although she labeled the manner of death as homicide she's not into evidence she's into what the body tells her in a fucking lab you know what

i mean yeah she was unable to determine if the killing occurred in self-defense how the hell would i know not my job on redirect examination she testified that the blunt force trauma that the victim sustained was so severe that she was almost certain that he would have been rendered unconscious. So you could. Yeah, you didn't need 20 blows and you certainly didn't need to cut his throat is what she's saying. Eight or nine with a with a claw hammer. I'm shocked the man was still alive. But I guarantee you he was not alert. He wasn't taking swings at her or anything, probably.

Calling wise guys on the phone. Yeah, not calling her a bitch or a dog or telling her that her bitch ass is in trouble. Bitch whore dog ass, none of that stuff. So Crystal must testify. Yeah. If you claim self-defense, you've got to get up there and make that jury believe your ass, boy. So she testified that he was standing over her, Fat Sam was, with a knife. And at this time, that's what she's testifying.

She said that she started looking around for something to throw at him and spotted a hammer underneath the bed. to throw at him and spotted a hammer underneath the bed. When he turned to sit on the bed in order to call his wise guys, that's when she saw her opportunity, grabbed the hammer and flew across the bed and started hitting him. Okay. Which is different than she said. Now it's not just I grabbed it and started wildly swinging it. Now it's different. She stated that she remembered hitting him only two or three times, but realized from the evidence that she must have hit him many more times.

She's an assassin. Crazed. She said that her hammer flew out of her hands at one point. His knife slipped, and she grabbed it and stabbed him because he was still fighting. Oh. Which evidence does not bear that out at all. No, he's got the knife still. And she had no weapon because, you know, a hammer flew out of her hand.

Yeah. Afterward, she went to her vehicle, retrieved a bag and a pair of latex gloves that Jonathan Howell had left in the vehicle because he used them in his line of work. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. He was a proctologist. He returned to the apartment shoot i just see a built-up oncologist let's take a look in there all right he just forgets what he's doing halfway through

like you see anything back there oh my god i'm in your asshole you got any pills in there? Oh, my God, I'm in your asshole. You got any pills in here, buddy? Been looking around for a while. Nope, you're all clean. What do you mean? You didn't see any polyps? Oh, I was looking for pills. I was looking for oxycodone.

Shit. All right. Junkie proctologist. I love it. That's hilarious. That was the one that got us on a proctology kick. So she said she returned to the apartment, cleaned up, threw his phone in the toilet, planted a different type of knife in his hands, gathered the evidence, and went home. Next day, she's saying this in court on the stand.

Wow. Yeah. Next day, she buried the evidence in the pit. She explained her actions in concealing the evidence by saying she was panicked and frightened of going to jail for her role in the drug business, not for the murder. If you got into that and I have self-defense and you're going to find out all my drug activities, I'll be busted for that. She was also still frightened for the lives of herself and her children because to this day,'s still scared because of quote the wise guys fuck this is the story her lawyer went over with her and said presents this this is the best we got based on your dumb statements that you made wow your statement has to fit into the fact that you said you buried the stuff you said you cleaned up the crime scene

you made every mistake possible in an interrogation. And you did all this by yourself. This is not good. All by my lonesome. No one else to blame. On cross-examination, she claimed that the portion of her written statement about having stabbed him to be sure he was dead, which was not in her handwriting, was fabricated by Agent Wesson, even though her initials and signature were all around it. even though her initials and signature were all around it. She said the portion about the victim falling back onto the bed after she hit him with the hammer was not accurate and that what really occurred was that he started swinging at her

with his knife, cutting her hand. She acknowledged that she signed the statement but said she didn't read it before signing it. Is that right? So you're in a murder interrogation. You just say A, B, and C and assume they wrote it down accurately and don't even check it over and write it. Never mind a lawyer. I don't even need to read my confession that you wrote.

Look, I buy a car and they give me a piece of documentation and they sign here. I'm reading that. I'm reading all of it. And that has nothing to do with my freedom or my- Fucking for the rest of my life. Right. This is for five years. I'm going to read that. And that has nothing to do with my freedom or my... Fucking for the rest of my life. Right. This is for five years. I'm going to read that.

Blamed for a murder. Yeah. I'm going to pay fucking 282 instead of 267 instead because I didn't read the fine print. Because I'm a dipshit. She's going to go to jail forever. Yeah. So the... I meant per month, by the way, not a fucking Ferrari.

So court rulings here, following her testimony, the court ruled that Agent Knudsen could testify about Fat Sam's convictions, the length of his sentence, and his parole status, but could not get into the underlying facts of the crime. So he could get up and say, yes, he was dangerous. They put him in jail. He did 30 years, but not say that he killed anybody. But someone does 30 years. You assume they did something terrible you know what i mean yeah so the verdict in this case here interesting um she ends up entering by the way before this all started she entered a guilty plea on the count of aggravated assault she said that was true you got me okay you got me but it was self-defense on the other stuff, on the murder.

The original, okay. So during these deliberations, the jurors find her not guilty of one count of theft, not guilty on one count of felony murder, and guilty on one count of first-degree murder. Wow. Imagine if you're her and you get fucking not guilty, not guilty. You're like, I'm getting away with it. Fucking here's the worst one. Fuck you.

The real hard one sucks. No shit, man. So she also has found guilty of tampering as well, which is a three year sentence that's going to be added on to her other sentence. which is a three-year sentence that's going to be added on to her other sentence and speaking of sentencing oh boy you ma'am may fuck off an automatic life in prison oh automatic sentence on first degree murder doesn't matter at all plus three years for tampa yeah yeah so she is in deep shit let's just say that for her yeah it is she is fucked now on appeal she does appeal and this is very recent couple years ago she argues that the agent nudson his testimony about fat sam's violent act should have been admitted to corroborate you know exactly what happened say he's a murderer should have been

admitted to corroborate her claim that he was the first aggressor 30 years in prison you assume it i think you get that out of that, probably. It's probably not a lot of things that are nonviolent you do 30 years for. 30 fucking years for, yeah. Yeah, I mean, trafficking people do that kind of time. But still, if you're a trafficker, there's some violence usually involved in that. You know what I mean? Yeah, but he wasn't fencing. You're not on the street trying to sell for your family or anything.

It feels like he learned his lesson with that and wasn't fencing stolen goods anymore right he was just i don't think so you know what i mean just mass amounts of drugs right yeah just doing much worse just much worse that carries a much longer sentence but at least it got him out of the situation where he felt like he needed to go hurt people now he got himself into the drug trade where, you know, it's much safer. A lot less people get hurt. Obviously. You do that when you're ready to retire, really. You settle down, get in the drug business. That's what you do.

It's like being a Walmart greeter. It's just in your golden years. She argues that the agent's, Knudsen's testimony about his threats to the agent and the agent's belief that he had associates capable of carrying out that threat would have corroborated her testimony about the wise guys. So there you go. And so that's her claim. The state responded by saying that agent Knudsen's testimony about having heard that, um,

that he fat Sam had put out an open contract on his life was inadmissible hearsay because they didn't even know if it was true. They heard it from some guy from prison. How the fuck you can't admit that in a court? Not even from that guy. It's hearsay of a thing that you heard 30 years ago. Literally 30 fucking five years ago. It's kind of rough there.

So the state responds that Agent Knudsen's testimony about having heard that is inadmissible. And they said, the court says, we agree with the state that Agent Knutson heard about the victim's advertising for someone to kill the agent constituted inadmissible hearsay. Hearsay, obviously, hearsay is a statement other than one made by the declarant while testifying at trial. So there you go. It's pretty easy. As for whether the trial court properly executed or excluded the proffered testimony about prior violent acts, we note that both parties analyzed the issue pursuant to Tennessee Rule of Evidence 405.

That's a specific one. Under the methods of proving character, which provides that after evidence has been presented of a person's character trait by reputation or opinion testimony, inquiry may be allowed on cross-examination into relevant and specific instances of conduct if certain conditions are met. Okay, so, conclusion is, the evidence of the prior bad acts involving the kidnapping convictions was arguably relevant to support

Crystal's claim that he was the aggressor and that she acted in self-defense. Whether the probative value of the evidence was substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice however is a much closer question this is what appeals are whether or not the the jury would have found it enough yeah this is by the way this will be another couple minutes and then i have something that's going to make your fucking head explode after this so hang on for a minute here through the

legal stuff on one hand the prior bad acts involved kidnappings and a murder that was allegedly committed in retaliation for the victims having been wronged in a criminal enterprise which would tend to bolster crystal's claim that the victim attacked her because she believed she was cutting him out of the drug transactions on the other hand the victim's crimes were committed not just years but decades earlier and in a much different physical condition. That's coming from me, not the document. Given the great length of time since the events, we can find no abuse of discretion in the court's exclusion of the evidence on the basis that the probative value was substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice. Which, yeah, I mean, if it was fucking three years ago it's a different story yeah

but if he's a different guy than he was physically can't even move anymore right and even three years ago he was still not even in great shape to do but no to attack somebody with a knife is that's that's he he kidnapped a dude and his wife with friends mind you too he needed he needed help to manage that. Three fucking people did this. Yeah. And he was on the murder car. He was in the murder car where they took the people. So they said, even if we agreed with the defendant that the testimony about the specific bad acts of the victim should have been admitted,

we would have no hesitation in concluding that the proof against the defendant was so overwhelming that any error in excluding the testimony was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt. So even if we agreed with you, it still wouldn't be enough. They said the proof in this case was that the victim at the time of his death was a morbidly obese elderly man. Right. Experiencing heart problems who had just been released from a nursing facility and had to use a rolling walker or cane to ambulate. Yeah. You can walk away from him very slowly, probably, and get away. The proof also showed that the victim was struck from behind in the back of his head

and that the knife found in his hand was planted there by the defendant after his death. All those look terrible. Yeah, it does. Moreover, multiple witnesses, including the retired FBI agent, were allowed to testify the victim had been convicted of aggravated kidnapping, which involved a murder, and that he was on parole at the time of his death. Therefore, we conclude that the trial court properly excluded the agent's proposed testimony. Okay. Crime scene photos.

She said they admitted eight unfairly prejudicial crime scene and autopsy photos. Yeah, those eight were probably pretty ugly. Yeah, that's why I was detailing them for this reason. She argues that the medical examiner's testimony and autopsy report were more than adequate to describe the extent of the victims. Let's not get crazy here. We don't need to see it. We don't need to see it.

The words are enough. Oh, man. She also argues that the testimonial evidence provided by the officers who responded to the crime scene was also sufficient to describe to for the jury the location of the spatter, the body in the apartment layout without the admission of these gruesome, gruesome, tasteless crime scene photos. In a pretrial hearing, the court carefully reviewed a large number of crime scene and autopsy photographs before ruling each one's admissibility or not. That's what they did. They said, no, we find no abuse of discretion in the trial court's admission of the photographs. One of the four, four of the photographs of the crime scene show the victim's body lying across the bed with blood spatter on the bed and on a wall beside him. A closer view of the torso showing the cuts to the neck and the blood around the shoulder

and neck area. Another view of the body showing the lack of blood spatter in the area around the chest of drawers, which is what they're trying to prove. So you need that. And a view of a large pool of blood that formed beneath his body, meaning he wasn't trying to get up and go after. He was laying there bleeding out. And finally, she says that there's just a lack of evidence to sustain her conviction.

Yeah. Yeah. Me telling you all the details isn't enough she's saying i don't think that's enough evidence okay wow she said that proof failed to establish that she acted with premeditation when she killed him in support she cites among other things his imposing size his violent history and reputation for in community for violence. And the state's failure to show a motive for the crime, which you don't have to. Look, you didn't show me any videos or pictures of me stabbing and brutalizing this man. Therefore, I didn't do it.

I didn't do it. And the prosecution has to prove the who, where, and why. That's it. Who, where, and how, not why. Why isn't part of it. Why doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't. So anyway, they said that they why. Why isn't part of it. Why doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't. So anyway, they said that they are going to side with the state here on that one.

She first argues that the evidence supporting her claim that she acted in self-defense when she killed the victim in support, she relies primarily on her own testimony about his actions and threats, along with his violent criminal history and his quote-unquote gangster associates that may or may not be real. Yeah, they said that the self-defense statute provides that the use of force, including deadly force, may be justified when a person has a reasonable belief that there's imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

But they don't believe her, and she can go fuck herself. So they conclude the evidence was sufficient and all that kind of shit, and she can keep getting fucked and So they conclude the evidence was sufficient and all that kind of shit and she can keep getting fucked and keep on fucking and trucking over here. So she's currently incarcerated at the Deborah K. Johnson Rehabilitation Center,

which is a women's prison there. Now, here we go. Oh boy. This is from a Facebook page. What? Citizens of Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, April 27th. By the way, there's Amish people here, and it's a picture as Amish people are. Is that right?

There is Amish here. And it says, Crystal Grigore found guilty of first-degree murder. After hearing the testimony throughout the week, jurors returned a guilty verdict against 37-year-old Crystal in the death of Sam John Passarella. Passarella's badly beaten body was found inside his Crockett Senior Housing apartment on Old Florence Road on May 19, 2015. So, the comments on this. No fucking way. There are three comments. One is a Ricky Rodriguez says, that poor men barely can't walk.

Evidence was there. Okay. So they're apparently in agreement with this. Yeah, they're on that same side. But they don't speak very good English. That's right. They don't speak English well. Poor men.

But they agree with the verdict. He is a lot of man. So, yeah yeah he's that poor man next up i don't even know if i should give this person's name i don't think because it's i mean i can legally it's just idiot put it on social media so it's perfectly fucking public but at the same time wow it'd be very easy to look this person up and make call him an asshole so i'm not going to say it this person um i'll give the first name shannon here um said or holly shannon or one of these people i don't never mind who knows quote she didn't do it holly shannon she's innocent wow that's not the name by the

way luckily the justice system has failed their own people. She was an excellent officer for, what, a month? What? Y'all need to open the case back up. Free the innocent. For real. Y'all need to open the case back up. Free the innocent.

Okay. For real, y'all? She said that? Wow. With a y'all she said that wow with a question mark she said that no that this is periods okay these are statements babe this is then replied to by somebody else who says quote thank you for saying that oh so many people believe what they read i just laughed like seven different seven different because that's seven different kinds of dumb both those statements there's seven different kinds of seven different kinds of fuck you lady yeah you know what i read her confession that's what i read yeah i read her court documents, her confession, evidentiary findings, things like that.

And then the jury verdict. And then jury verdicts. And also her saying. All 12 people believe what they read. And I read her four fucking different stories that you wouldn't have if you didn't do anything. And all this shit. I'm just, wow. thank you for saying that exclamation point by the way thank you and uses the person's name so many people believe what they read these if all these people just stop with their reading

all these words mocking you bullshit Just go on what you hear. Just if someone says, hey, y'all, did you hear this and that? You go by that. That's all. No, I'm going by what I saw, sir. And I saw nothing. I didn't see nothing. So nothing happened.

I wasn't there. Who's to say anybody was? You know what I mean? I didn't see it. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. For every murderer out there, no matter how... We're going to get so much shit for this.

We are? The fuck are we going to get shit for? The illiterate are going to fucking be mad at us? Some moron is going to be mad that we talked about this. I'll give you a go fuck your mother first back. A preemptive fuck you. Preemptive go fuck your mother first. A preemptive fuck you. A preemptive go fuck your mother. Not fuck you, fuck your mother.

So if you come to us, you're getting a go fuck your mother again and then fuck her in the mouth and then pick another fucking hole and fuck her there because I don't care anymore. I'm not taking anybody's dumb shit. If you're too stupid to understand anything,

don't listen to the fucking show. Stop. It was appealed, all right? And it's over for you, so shut it. It's over. shut it's over your argument's dumb fucking idiots so there we go that everybody is uh lawrenceburg tennessee and a hell of a wild story that's a crazy story it's a real place with the craziest story i've ever heard it's fucking. What's even crazier, James, it happened less than 10 years ago. Less than 10 years ago.

This was unfolding. We were planning crime and sports while this was going on. We had already started this podcast by the time the trial was over. My daughter was almost in school. This is crazy. It's so soon and so recent.

She was in kindergarten this is ridiculous let me ask you this when we were say you know 10 minutes into the murder story did you think that he wasn't going to be the murderer or never thought he's going to be the murder victim i thought he was not going to learn his lesson no enter crystal you go oh no poor crystal i hope she's pregnant otherwise he's going to kill her. Poor Crystal and her Misty. And her Misty. Crystal, eat Christy and Misty. So there you go, everybody.

If you enjoyed that, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're on and counteract the dumb people by giving us five stars and saying something nice about the show. It really does help out a lot. You also certainly want to follow us on social media at small town murder on instagram at murder small on twitter at small town pod on facebook you definitely certainly want to head over to shut up and give me murder.com yeah right now and get all of the first of all merch and stuff like that but you're going to get tickets to live shows december 2nd dallas we have a live show there it's the only one left with tickets besides the virtual live show.

October the 26th. It's a Thursday night, and we're going to have a show be available for a week after that all through Thanksgiving. All through Halloween. You can watch as many times as you want. Save it up for Halloween. Do whatever you want. It's our spectacular. We're going to dress up in costumes.

We're going to have a wild story, and it'll be just like a show, except you're in your fucking pajama bottoms drinking free booze. Shrinking home booze. And you have your own toilet, which is always helpful. Oh, yeah. No line. That's wonderful. No line for the toilet. So get in there.

Get those tickets at smalltown. I'm sorry. Shutupandgivememurder.com slash virtual live is where you get those tickets. And get them right now. We can't wait. We're very jacked for that. You certainly definitely want Patreon. You want more stuff, bonus stuff.

We got it all. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus materials. Right. Have the whole back catalog. Anybody. Five dollars a month or above. What does five dollars get you? That doesn't even get you nothing. That's a Big now you know what i mean the actual sandwich though just this yeah

no fries or drink just the big so you can get a big mac once yeah or over 200 back episodes of bonus stuff to binge on and new stuff every other week including this week which we have for crime and sports which you'll have access to and you'll want to listen to because these are wild. We're going to talk about Pros vs. Joes, which was a television show where they put regular people who, for some reason, were delusional enough to think they could compete athletically with recently retired professional athletes and put that on television. And it's the craziest shit ever. Plenty of people got hurt.

It was awesome. So we'll check all that out. Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about a very interesting case that hasn't gone to trial yet, but there has an interrogation out there and the facts of the case are kind of pretty kind of cut and dry, it seems like. But the Sarah Boone, who's the alleged suitcase killer, she hasn't gone yet, it's all alleged, who zipped her boyfriend up in the suitcase, according to her own words, and then the police did the worst interrogation I've ever seen any police force do at any time. Yeah.

It seems like they were hitting the head with fucking claw hammers before they went in there. Is it because. Is it because. Responses are just as dumb. Daniel's great, great, great granddaughter. I think it is. Yeah. Yeah.

Still mad at the Crockett. David Crockett. So check all that out. That's patreon.com slash crimeinsports. And you'll get a shout out in just a second. But before the shout out, we also just want to say listen to your stupid opinions. Oh, it's so much fun. It's our new show and fuck do we love it. We really think it's awesome and we've had great feedback.

So we think you're going to love it too. We talk about dumb reviews of everything imaginable. Everything, everybody, every activity imaginable. Products from all over the internet. And it's really, really wild stuff. Check that out wherever you listen to podcasts. And also listen to Crime and Sports while you're at it. And that said, Jimmy!

Hit me with the name of the people who would never, ever, ever light a candle planning on preying on our ultimate demise. Hit me with those names right fucking now. This week's executive producers are Kyle Norwig, Diane Helmendoller, Helen McKenzie, Thomas Bollinger, and Laura Forgy.

Thank you all so much for being a part of this. Thank you, awesome people. Other producers this week are Steve Dipshitiate. He's a wrestling fan extraordinaire. Hey, alright. Good episode for you. He's a wrestling fan extraordinaire. Hey, all right. This is an episode for you. Haas Funk, the best funk. Peyton Meadows.

Hank's Donut World. I don't know what that is a reference to. Hank's Donut World is overboard. That is where in kayfabe we'll say we'll stick with the wrestling from Crime and Sports List this week. But that is where he told Ildehan they met. Oh, okay. Remember Hank's Donut World? Oh, Hank's Donut World.

He used to hang out there every night when you were in the Navy. I was in the Navy? I was in the Armed Forces. You've got to remember, you were in the Navy. You were in the Navy. Tiffany Gonzalez, happy birthday, Tiff. It's good to see your name. I love you so much.

See you. Janice Hill, Trey Volkenar, Harry Dangleberry, Biscuit Lacoste, Lacoste maybe, Pam Allen, Alex Esquivel, Skye Zambrana, Casey Bualos, Adam Paulchow, Harry Chazen, Chazen, Ray Brower, Brower maybe, Nidhi Sharma. Bryson Morris. Gina Marie. Cody Alcoyne. Jerkface Gremlin. Green Marie.

Green Mary Acres. I don't know if that's real. Is that a place? A place? It might be a cemetery. We don't know. Oh, maybe. Dana Berry.

Annie with no last name. Jacob. LDG. Krista Meyer. Cody Stoompejee. Stoompejasus, Stoompejaysus, Isa, Isa, Isa, Aliamama. All right. What the hell?

Aliamama. She said it. Isa said it. Oh, my God. M-L, the letters. M and L. Zoe Keller, Danielle Delp, I think, Amy Benz, Queefy Shorts. That's disgusting. Sabrina Rennie, Paige Hollander, Felicia Greider, MM.

The letters, both letters brought you this show. Gina Ann, Alfie. It's a regular Sesame Street today. Alfie Simchich, Kristen Baggett, Bagot, Bagot, Roe Jogan, Penny Trayshun. Oh, you son of a bitch. Stephanie Wood, Sam Stankiewicz, Cameron Carpenter, The Forest Goat, Jacob Vest, Melanie Brown, Clay Moore, Fat Little Gringo. All right, now we're having fun with it. Allison Bridges, Shannon Flaherty, Jamie Urquhart, David Palmer, Sean Howard, Bridget West, Katie Trich, Brandon Withrow, Kate Sander, Christopher Cooper, Steve with no last name, Bonnie Whitener, Ginta, or Ginta? Probably Ginta.

Sam Finn, Sammy Finn, Angel, and Nick Bedrosian. All right. Kristen Stone, Mike Danzer, Jane Malkinoff. I don'tian. All right. Kristen Stone. Mike Danzer. Jane Melkenoff. I don't know. All right. Aaron Anderson. Sounds dirty, but I'm not sure.

I'm going to go with probably the name. Cody Brannan. Gina Wolfenkuhler. Wolfkuhler. Wolf Kuhl. Wolf Kuhl. That's what it is, I think. Okay.

God damn it. David Benson. Darcy Ellis. Sarah Goins. Hey, Sarah. David Boyle. Arsenic think. Okay. God damn it. David Benson, Darcy Ellis, Sarah Goins. Hey, Sarah. David Boyle ate arsenic catnip. Oh, boy. Adrian R.

Jonathan, don't ever fucking do it. I'm not an advocate for hurting animals. All right. Jonathan. No, don't do that. It's bad. It's terrible. Ferreira.

Rachel Combs. Is there anybody out there going, hurt animals. Fuck them. Don't you do it. Hope not. You'll go to jail. Star Reim. Lemon Tree.

Christy Black. Kelsey with a K. Meredith Zolte. Max DeMau. DeMau. Keener with no last name. Grace Annabelle Oatway. Sean Gelsenays.

Gelsenays. Elena Johnson. Zeke Doody Tara Ketstever Ketstever Kirst CC Suzanne Sutton Olivia Crutcher

Tini Cristini Rebecca Connors Tyler Schwebel Zarin Walk Nicholas Dylan Ryan, Karen Schumacher, Laura Sue, William Fitch, Anna Marie Navarro-Perez. Is that one name? I really wandered through that one. I was like, what the hell just happened? That's a handle, Anna Marie.

Brittany Baumann, Mandy with no last name. Doug Brown. Patrick Pickett. Ryan Maynard. Maynard. Janet. Janet Neat. Dina. Dina Craiglow.

Carla Mead. Devin Shue. Cass with no last name. Honey Hudson. Caitlin. Callan. Kaelin. Kaelin with no last name.

Lisa Young. Amanda Raulacaitis. Raulacaitis. Shit. Sounds sounds that's not easy whitney with no last name ruth bohm ruth bohm blom hunter uh anthony smith mike kellogg got that kellogg's money young david car center car center all right becca mouse yeah he does he's a real sinner oh boy don't get in the car with that man uh kim Burton, Corey Allen, Melissa with no last name, Derpy D, Devin Rockett, Susan Joy, Aaron Williams, Michelle Ross, Kelly Kissick, Kat Cummings, Chris Harris, Michael Van Tassel, Katie Kerwood, Jason Edward Hensley, Alisa Ashley, Ashley Dandridge, Christian McCann, Tricia Brugman, Angela Thomas, Gemini Heather, Jason Fish, Adriana Tinginero, Tina Jero, Alana Maxwell. I got real Spanish on you.

Amy Broussard, Michael Horton, Ashley Stark, Liz Hoover, Antonio Madrigal, Jill Hood, Big Sexy74, because there's 73 others. I don't want you to get mixed up. Max Mark, Mark Proctor, Justine with no last name, Grisp with no last name, Brett Sawyer, Bubba Snotterly, Marie Blanche Gillette, Austin Davis, Tim Morgan, John Williams, Judy Bittner,

Mikey T. Jordan with no last name and every one of our god damn producers you're fantastic, thank you thank you everybody so much from the bottom of our hearts we appreciate the hell out of all of you, we really do thank you for what you do for us, honestly if you want to get a hold of us, very easy to do

just go to shutupandgivememurder.com there's links to follow everybody everywhere do that, keep coming back you turkey gobbling sons of bitches to do. Just go to shutupandgivememurder.com. There's links to follow everybody everywhere. Do that. Keep coming back, you turkey gobbling sons of bitches. We love the shit out of you. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.