Small Town Murder - #431 - My Daddybrother Did It - Clayton, Georgia

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

This week, in Clayton, Georgia, a family with a violent criminal history seems to explode over some very unconventional relationships, jealously, and custody battles. This results in one of the strangest marriages, that causes much drama within the family. One day, it explodes in a frenzy of violence, and some of the most ridiculous escape attempts, ever, super casual police work, and a family destroyed!Along the way, we find out that having the longest beard in Georgia can earn you a prize, that a 64 ounce ketchup bottle is a strange weapon, and you should never be someone's "Daddybrother"!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Clayton, Georgia, a family with a long, violent criminal history seems to explode over an unlikely marriage, jealousy, and the strangest family tree around. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us on another crazy edition. And this is, wow, this is Phillips, Oklahoma-level wild stuff going on here today.

Oh, I can't wait to do that. Dirty. Oh, it's weird, man. This is just a lot. Generations of bad stuff going down here. Terrific. We'll talk all about it. But before we get to that, first couple things we've got to clean up on the top.

Number one, definitely listen to Your Stupid Opinions, our new podcast that we are just, God, we're in love with it right now. It's so much fun, and we're having a blast, and people seem to be enjoying it. So check it out wherever you listen to podcasts, Your Stupid Opinions, where we make fun of people's dumb reviews from the Internet. It's beautiful. So it makes us feel so good in addition to that definitely get tickets for october the 26th virtual live show coming to you shut up and give me murder.com slash virtual live anywhere in the world come out just like a regular live show we have the same table set up the screen the pictures the story except it's a halloween show so we're going to be in costume elaborate yeah and we have stuff going on it's going to be a halloween themed episode all of that's available for a week after the 26th as well you can watch as many times you want do whatever you want with it

yeah in that week and do it in your own booze wearing pajama bottoms. So enjoy that. We cannot wait. Get your tickets now. Also, your tickets are still available for December the 2nd in Dallas. So get those. Everything else sold out. I think it's just Boston left. Boston and Dallas.

So thank you for being cool, everybody, and getting your tickets there. And this has been the most fun. You guys have been fantastic all year. Thank you for being in all these shows. It was great. Honestly. Philly was just terrific. Yeah. And D we had a blast so thank you so much for all that you do for us out there with these live shows again and patreon.com

slash crime in sports and that's the name of our other podcast that you should be listening to because it's there's just as disgusting things going on over there. Trust us. So check that out. But Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of your bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you are going to get access to everything that we put out bonus-wise. There's a couple hundred episodes, bonus episodes you're going to get to binge on, and then new ones every other week for the price of a cup of coffee. really can't beat it this week what you're getting for crime and sports which you'll have access to we're going to talk about bs high which was bishop sycamore high there's a documentary on them and it's incredible a fake high school made for some coach to try to make

people think he was smart i assume that's all it was ego driven shit and got kids you know injured and made fun of for being on this terrible team and it was just a sad sad state of affairs then for small town murder we're going to talk about something crazy joey buttafuoco and amy fisher and i'm sure i don't know if you haven't heard of joey buttafuoco and amy fisher congrats on being young yeah that's one thing his name is joey buttafuco so that'll be fun he wore giant zuba pants and had an affair with a teenager so guess what it's gonna be wild patreon.com body shop was he in a body shop owner yeah yeah patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all that and a shout out at the end of the show as well where jimmy will mispronounce your

name you bet even though he'd love to get it correct. That said, disclaimer time. All right. This is a comedy show. It is. We're comedians. Yeah, we are. So there's going to be jokes here, and people are going to die.

Both of those things are going to happen. But this is the way you do it here. What we do is we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why, James? Because we're assholes. Yeah, but, but we're not scumbags. And there you go. And that's how true crime and comedy can exist on the same plane and not be a completely crazy mess where people are like,

oh, my God, yeah, the head rolled away. That's hilarious. Don't be a monster. That's not what we're about here. There's plenty of dumb stuff to make fun of, and that's what we'll make fun of. And for everybody that wants to do that, we're about to have a crazy time, and you're going to hear a wild show. You don't think true crime and comedy still shouldn't go together?

Maybe we're not for you. Who knows? Either way, no bitching later. For the rest of us, I think it's time to sit back, everybody, clear the lungs, and let's all shout shut up and give me murder let's do this what do you say let's go on a trip everybody all right going on down to georgia today oh boy it is georgia time and we're going this is sometimes we're in like the suburbs and places like that. Oh, no, no, not this week. Not this week.

We are going to northeastern Georgia in the hills. This is some hill stuff here, some mountain people. There's never been a Georgia story that I was comfortable with. No, no, Georgia, a lot of the murder stories in Georgia mirror the West Virginia ones for some reason. Those are just the ones we find. That's the other thing. Every state has their West Virginia murders. But these, they seem to pop up more often in some states.

It's really fascinating. And it's a lot. This northern Georgia seems to be a hotbed for weird stuff going on. So this is Clayton, Georgia. And Clayton is in northeast Georgia, about an hour 45 from Atlanta here. So that means that an hour 45 and then once you get to Atlanta, another hour 45 to wherever you're going in Atlanta. So there's that.

Five hours and 15 minutes to Savannah, Georgia. And almost two hours to Vinings, Georgia, which was our last Georgia episode. A perverted mind, that was. And we're going to look at that after this and go, oh, God, I mean, that was just perverted. What were we thinking? That's not perverted. That was casual. That was casual because this shit's weird, what goes on here.

So the family tree here, I just at one point i had to read something six times and it made my head hurt and i was like because i was like i need to take this apart for the people so they can understand it because if i don't understand it i don't know how to tell you how to understand it so wow uh this is in rabin county i think that's how you say it it might be rob robin rabun who the hell knows R-A-B-U-N. County. So that could be said 45 different ways. Sure.

Yeah. Area code 706 here. Now, it was originally Claytonsville. We just shortened it. You see a lot of that. They dropped a lot of Vills and Bergs. And tons. Yeah.

Yeah. Tons. Yeah. That happened, too. Yeah, and tons. Yeah, yeah. Tons, yeah, that happened too. It founded in 1821 as the seat of the county, and then in 1823 it was incorporated, renamed Clayton.

Let's drop the phil. What are we doing here? Clayton's phil. It was named after a prominent man from the area who was a lawyer and a congressman and a judge, Judge Augustine S. Clayton. Augustine? Augustine. That's not a name. It is now. Augustine.

It seemed like it was supposed to be like Augustine, but they just were like, make it Augustine. It'll be different. That's not a name at all. No, it's not. I've never heard that name ever. That is made up. And not even from back then, because you hear a lot of old-timey names. You're like, yeah, nobody's named Jedediah that much anymore.

But Augustine? I've never heard that one before. Only one person ever. Augustine S. Clayton. He's an original. The prototype. He served in both the Georgia House of Representatives and the Georgia Senate before being elected as a U.S. representative and serving two terms. Oh, he's a big deal.

He's a big deal here. So enough to get a town named after him. It's so interesting how many people back then were a big deal to everybody, and they're fucking nobody today. There are six people that signed the Declaration of Independence buried in one cemetery. The only one that fucking matters is Benjamin Franklin. The other ones, you've never heard of. Everybody else is like, who is that?

I don't even know who that is. Who the fuck? Why do we care? Never heard of that guy. So in 1824, 67 acres were purchased for $150, which is a pretty good deal. How many acres? 67 for $150. That's incredible. That's a pretty good deal. How many acres? 67 for $150. That's incredible.

That's a great smoking deal. But 1824, $150 was like a three-year salary, I think, back then. So they laid out a site for a courthouse and streets and, you know, Main Street they laid out here. In 1936, Clayton has a distinction in Georgia because they recorded 30 inches of snowfall there, which is the highest annual total for anywhere in georgia at any time ever so and and they got one they got it all in once they got i guess so yeah of snowfall night i think that's for the year actually oh now part of old yeller the disney movie that they don't show that to kids in school anymore and i think

that's probably for the best this is a fucking heartbreaking yeah they showed it to us though remember that yeah why did they show us that i don't know what was the educational value of showing us this bad movie about shooting sometimes you gotta murder your own dog i don't know yeah it's like listen kids i know everything seems fluffy and cotton balls and everything's nice and glittery and pink and careberry around here in the 80s but you know what sometimes you got to shoot your fucking dog sit down and watch it and that's a it's a fake it's not real so why do they have why did they write it that way i don't know you could have written that so much nicer why do you have to shoot the fucking dog that's what disney movies used to be bambi's mother's dead there was always a death that had to be always sadness to overcome where the fuck is Nemo's mom let's uh what maybe we find her before we find that little

fish well in an old Disney movie they would have showed you Nemo's mom being killed before his eyes that's that would have been the difference and then Nemo would have to overcome that as well you know frozen they murdered two people on a fucking ship. Oh, yeah. There's tons of murder. There's always people dead. In kids' movies. So, yeah, this was shot, a lot of it was shot here in 1957. And also the movie Grizzly, which is a very famous B-movie, Grizzly. It's about this kind of bear that's like part Bigfoot. They made a riff tracks of it, which is, it's on, I think it's on Prime or Tubi,

one of those you can find. on prime or to be one of those you can find it's gotta be on youtube yeah i maybe a lot of those are they take them down pretty quick so but yeah it's very funny riff tracks by the way so i've seen this movie and it's fucking terrible i mean it's a it's a disaster it was filmed on location in the 70s here with residents cast and supporting roles they just went around residents yeah in the town were in the movie so you'd have a guy you'd cut to a guy and he's just a guy in overalls and he'd be like i think i saw the thing over there like you know because that's his acting ridiculous yeah uh production was uh they're like thanksgiving 1975 and it became the most financially successful

independent motion picture ever at the time it was released because there was no overhead in may of 76 it also took off too they actually it had a weird life for some reason as a b movie i don't know why and it held that record for more than two years until halloween unseated it in 78 halloween was an independent movie yeah that was john carpenter did everything he did the music really sets he did the direction the camera where he did everything john carpenter that movie that was i gotta get more into cinema i think because i know fucking nothing like that it was very independent it was low budget fuck oh yeah it was i mean no one knew who the hell jamie lee

curtis was it was wow really low budget uh famous people here this will give you an idea of what we're dealing with uh billy redden who is the actor who played the banjo player in deliverance that that guy hold on is from here the guy that played dueling banjo yes in deliverance the guy you look at and go jesus what the fuck happened to that guy did he get eaten by the grizzly that's he's from here yes that guy oh billy look at him he was in a movie reviews of this town here we go people like it most people like it here that are from here really i don't think a lot of outsiders come through here as much though too but there's also a lot of like outdoorsy stuff to do here so if you're an outdoors person this is a kind of a place for you

five a lot of towns in the southwest that are like that it's a piece of shit but there's so much to do yeah people love it and maybe this is nice we don't fuck we've never been there we have no idea i don't know so here we go five stars come visit this wonderful gorgeous hallmark town exclamation point it's hallmark yeah amazing it a Hallmark town, which means it's a weird disconnected main street with fake snow. It's got a fucking veneer of old timey. That's not good. A lot of cookies for sale. Yikes.

Too many cupcakes. A lot of homemade shit. Yeah. Amazing maintained views. I think they mean mountain. I'm going to go ahead and assume. Yeah, amazing maintained views. I think they mean mountain.

I'm going to go ahead and assume. Hiking, White River rafting, biking, amazing farm-to-table restaurants. Okay. They just went to somebody's house that had a farm. Yeah, that sounds a lot like Denver. Yeah, that's Denver. If they said, a lot of people wearing burlap, I'd go, is this Denver? What's happening?

Lots of dispensaries around. Yeah, that's Denver. That's Denver. Four stars. Clayton is a great town. It's surrounded by the Blue Ridge Mountains. Lots of outdoor activities to do, from hiking on Black Rock Mountain to kayaking on the Chattooga River. Chattooga.

Okay. Chattooga. There are plenty of great places to eat as well. He said plenty are great places. So I had to, I had to reconstitute myself there for a second. Here's another review here. This one is from a different site and it has, it didn't,

they didn't, they chose not to give stars. So we don't know, but we can tell by what they say. It's the title is an interesting, it's interesting to live in Rabun County. Okay. We have lived full time in the County for 12 years and part-time for 31 years.

It is an absolutely beautiful county, but it's governed by the locals and it's hard to break in. Okay. I mean, everywhere is governed by the locals. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't know if he's thinking it's like a boss hog situation. Yeah. You know what I mean. But I don't know if he's thinking it's like a boss hog situation. Yeah. You know what I mean? He's trying to be part of the city council or something, and they won't let him?

I always worried about them Duke boys. Too much time spent on that. Some people want to preserve the mountains and protect the environment, and others see it as an opportunity to build more houses. more houses. I appreciate the builders who want to make money, but there are opportunists who take advantage of the system, fill the county commissioners with their relatives, and change the county laws to suit their needs. Okay, that makes sense now. A town of nepotism. Weird. Yeah, a small town that's nepotism. Yeah, really strange. It never happened before. The lake areas pay the price for the county government neglect, and if you to move here be advised be advised that you need to be interested in the county government because your taxes are the price you pay for this county and its beauty and its

problems okay so mixed bag all right yeah population of this town 2157 tiny it's small very small uh over 52 female way more female median age is a little bit higher than normal it's about 44 and it's a strange mix the old people it's a dominant in this town really dominant the 75 to 84 is twice as many as usual and three times as many 85 and over people here jesus yeah very strange here and no nobody from 35 to 54 all those people move that's like way under yeah then how the fuck do they expect this town to stick around much longer i don't know it's just old people wanting to keep it all i have no idea but there's a lot of older people here i mean there's more younger people but that's a lot of older people here. I mean, there's more younger people, but that's a lot of old people that are going to dominate the culture of the town here. So family in this place here, as we'll talk about, 27.

It's less married people than normal. More twice as many divorced people as normal. 28% are single with children, which is three times the normal rate as well. So a lot going on here. Race of this town, 74.3 of this town 74.3 white 3.3 black 0.0 asian and 19.3 hispanic so yeah religion this is might be our highest ever 50 50 is the norm 82.9 religious here 82.9 religion 83 participate yes that is holy shit i think that's the highest we've ever had that's dangerous that's yeah i don't think yeah i think the

at notre dame there's less people going to church probably even here 41 of the people here are baptist as we know my baptists are the catholics of the south as we know here holy shit 0.0 jewish 8.9 eastern faith is that right like buddhist that sort of thing but there's 0.0% Asians, which is interesting. Huh. Don't get it. That's some like, I don't know, white people in sarongs or something? I guess so. Or maybe there's like a commune here or something. I have no idea. I'm very interested in what that is.

Some yoga religion that has like a big compound? I'm not sure. The big compound? I'm not sure. In this county, last election, 20.7% of the people voted Democratic, 78.1% voted Republican, 1.2% voted Independent. Unemployment rate here is a little bit lower than the national average, but it's all pretty low at this point. So it's all good. Median household income here, though, is also low.

That is $46,875 dollars a year yikes and uh the cost of living is pretty close to normal normal's 100 here it's 88 and the median home costs 339 300 what yeah if you make 46 grand a year that's how you're gonna do that i don't know how you even consider to start to pay for a house on that. Yeah, that's tough. I don't know. So if we've convinced you, damn it, that you need to be here, we have, maybe you're looking for a place to retire, we have for you the Clayton, Georgia Real Estate Report.

Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $400 less than the national average. It's $870, which is not bad. Here's a, I don't even know how many bedrooms because it doesn't say. Three, I think, about. Three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,220 square feet. It's got to be three, too. It's got to be. 4.3 acres, so it220 square feet. It's gotta be 4.3 acres. It's a big land. It's

just kind of an outdated house. It just needs a lot. It needs a sprucing. So you'd expect to maybe get a break on the price. Hopefully not quite. $399,000 for that. $400,000. And it's a big, long, dirt driveway with big tire ruts.

Oh. Like, if you had a car, I don't know, you might bottom out at some points in this. It's a tractor road. Yeah, look, it's a truck. You need a big truck that's, like, raised to be here. So, because it snows here, too. Right. So, you're in the mountains.

Here's a two-bedroom, two-bath on 1.19 acres. Okay. It's right on this creek or some shit here. Creek or some shit. I don't know what it is. It was some murky water that it sits like. Jimmy, I can't explain this to you. It looks like a hillbilly shack, like a two-story hillbilly shack. It's on stilts, but the stilts look like they just

chopped down like a young tree and stuck a piece of it there they're not like manufactured stilts yeah and the house it looks like the house imagine a two-story version of the house from the beginning of the pirates of the caribbean ride and that's what this house is but really inside it's all fancy it's weird is it like is it built to be like a veneer of rustic on the outside rustic it looks like a veneer it looks like it's falling apart this is falling down tell that old hillbilly with the beard down to his knees that he needs to run you know that's lived in the same house he can't run he has a monet hanging on the wall of this place. It's the weirdest shit ever. It's so strange.

$499,000 for this. Very strange. That's got to be a rustic appearance. Yeah. It meant to look like that. It has to be. It looks like a pioneering hillbilly fur trapper built it, and then a yuppie couple came in and was like, what if we just did all the cabinets in white?

You know what I mean? Who wants dilapidated veneer? Dilapidated chic. You never heard that? That's the new thing now. I want an honest real estate agent like. Slum chic. Well, this one right here has a creek or some shit.

Some shit. It looks weird, but let's go inside. HGTV on the inside, guys. It's the best. All right. Here's a four-bedroom, five-bath, T-Ball for each and every B-Hall here. There you go. 4,628 square feet, big house.

Giant. 1.14 acres. It looks like one of the Pioneer Woman's houses. It's really boring. It's very boring. It's no hillbilly shack. We'll put it that way. $1,795,000 for this thing. One acre.

1.14 acre. That's ridiculous. That's crazy. I don't know what's going on with the real estate market here, but it's out of control. It doesn't make any sense. Is it people from Atlanta? Is this where they go for the weekend so they bought up all the real estate? That's all I could imagine.

I don't know. Things to do, the Georgia Mountain Storytelling Festival. Storytelling Festival. It's the 10th annual. Offers storytelling and musical performances. That sounds good here. And it says, we're thrilled to be at the ridges resort at lake chatoogie i think that's what it is um and it says if you can't attend oh here are the people

okay here's the tellers you ready for this the tellers len cabral will be there um nester gomez will be there i think he plays second base for the mets Mets. So maybe he's got a story to tell. Michael Reno Harrell will be there. I don't know if Reno is his nickname because he spent a lot of time in Reno. Megan Hicks and Ann Rutherford, Jimmy. So I know you weren't going to get your ticket, but I knew. Tag team? I knew once I mentioned that Megan Hicks and Ann Rutherford would be there,

that's when you would be like. I won't see Hicks without Rutherford. You're ready. Put your phone down. Get the tickets after we're done here, okay? Please, Jimmy, we're working. We can't. Fine.

Yeah, Anne Rutherford will be there for you when we're done, all right? Is Anne Rutherford, is that a woman that I should know? No. No? These are mountain Georgia storytellers. She's like, oh, yeah, the lady from that basket shop on Main Street. You know, who knows? What kind of story do these people have to tell?

Lots of them, apparently. There's a bunch of people. They're having a whole festival. Got to buy a ticket to know. The Foxfire Mountaineer Festival. Oh. Again, live music, children's games, Foxfire demonstrations. I don't know what that means.

There's also the longest beard contest. Hey, I'm about four months into it. There's folk artisans, Foxfire. I don't know what this Foxfire demonstrators. Children's heritage classes. I don't know what that's about. So here is the crime rate in this town what we're interested in here property crime is about one-third over the oh over the

national average real georgia average over the national average and violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the amount rushmore of crime is about 25 below the national average. So more stealing than killing going on here. Interesting. Very interesting. That said, let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do it. Okay, it's more than one murder, but there's a lot going on here. Money bodies fall in this story.

So let's talk about this. First of all, I have to give credit to a story that i that had a lot of information on here that was very difficult to find so i got to give them credit uh mary shalloop or shall shall hoop uh here in the story is cover story murder and mayhem in raymond county okay okay so i like this it's in the beginning of her story. She says, quote, it all began in the mountains of North Georgia, which is supposed to be ominous. And to me, it is. That sounds like, oh, what's happening now? Let's talk about a guy first off here.

OK, Joseph Roger Hayes. Now, he will set off a trend in this story by every single man in this story goes by their middle name. Every single human being that is. Yeah. It goes by their middle name. All of them. I don't understand it. I don't know if that's a North Georgia thing or what, but he's Joseph Roger Hayes.

No one ever calls him Joseph or Joe or Joey. He's Roger. Period. So Roger Hayes here. Born in 1940. Roger Hayes, no one ever calls him Joseph or Joe or Joey. He's Roger. Huh. Period. So, Roger Hayes here. Born in 1940, Roger Hayes. His parents are Columbus and Carrie Wittner Hayes. First name Columbus. Columbus Hayes is his dad's name.

Holy shit. We've got Augustine and Columbus. Augustine. Augustine. Augustine. And Columbus now, so far, as first names we've come to. I'm already like, what's happening up here? What's going on in the mountains, everybody?

So there's all of that. He's born in Franklin County and spent most of his time in this area, though, and also in Stevens County. He's a truck driver and a member of the Baptist Church, of course. All right. He's from down there, but he's a truck driver is his profession. He'll end up having just a slew of kids from all sorts of different people. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's got all sorts of kids.

And later on, he's got a bunch of brothers and sisters, too, from what I'm finding here. And he's got at least three daughters that we know of, I believe seems to be from three different women. What I can what I can gather. And he's also married. This is official marriages and divorces. God, there's a lot of gray area in the story as far as when someone's officially married when they're divorced if they married somebody else when that happened yeah you know i get it sometimes look hey paperwork's a bitch yeah yeah right and it

takes the fucking heat out of the moment sometimes to be like let's what do you say we get married fuck now i'm limp now now i gotta fuck my wife jesus i think that's his problem that's not near as hot next time you're fucking oh your wife imagine it's a one-night stand and see if it see if it happens faster that's just that's a and tell her to imagine it too yeah hey imagine i'm handsome imagine imagine i'm you think i'm handsome as shit because you're drunk yeah imagine you really want to do this hey baby imagine you really want to do this okay okay imagine this is great to you yeah imagine you're jacked for this it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm

ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Rather than I just came in and went, I don't know, we got like 15 minutes. Probably throw one in. Kids are asleep. Kids are asleep. Standing there, your dick hanging. Just wearing a pair of socks with your dick dangling. Oh, how could you not be excited for this?

So he's also, he has a brother here. Roger does, whose name is Arthur, who I assume that's not his first name. Yeah, it's gotta be his middle, right?

Yeah. Now at some point here, Roger is quote unquote married to a woman named Faye. This is a long troubled just mess of a relationship her and fay him and fay fay hayes no no well eventually i guess she'll go by fay hayes i thought you meant that was her maiden name i was like wow i don't think so the hayes on hayes marriage here it's not we're not that this isn't that hillbilly of a story all right it's pretty close though it's pretty close when you hear who married who in this you're gonna go get the fuck out of here with that shit wow this is a just like this is like a weird very strange porn movie this movie this whole entire episode so he's married to fay and i think this is a thing who he has kids with

like i said very nebulous you can really kind of whatever it's a little opaque so he he has daughters i believe with other women and then with fay i'm positive that he has one kid okay and that's dale okay yes you think his first name's dale no his name roger dale hayes so his first name he gave him his middle name for his first name yeah hit him with the dale hayes we'll call him dale hayes and we call him dale that way he's not roger see how this works maybe that's why you go by your middle name because they name you whatever your dad's first name is and then a different middle name so so it's not confusing they make your first name your dad's middle name so that way you're not but it's not confusing well that way they're not calling you they could have just named you the dad's middle name so you

wouldn't call him that but that would be come on jimmy see your head hurts already wait till i tell you who married who and who's who's father and stepfather and all this shit now we did all the naming so it's not confusing yeah it's i mean so it's not confusing is why they do this that's crazy holy shit because i'm pretty goddamn confused i'll be honest with you so roger dale here yeah going by dale to not confuse him with roger right dale the son born in 1967 all right 27 so yeah dad's 27 we don't know how old fay is dad likes younger women as we find out oh boy as young as he can get him not in an illegal way but he's always got somebody you know 15 years younger than him that he's hooked up with at all times.

He's a man of the world, Jim. He's an over-the-road trucker. He's seen some things. He's been to Tennessee. He's been to Ohio. He's been around. Paid his dues. He's a worldly man, yeah.

So he said, now Dale does not recall the Hayes home happily he says at all no oh no no and let's find out why okay because i'm gonna guess raj likes to drink oh my does raj not only does raj like to drink but he also likes to do other shit this is the first thing he does okay may 1976 it's nighttime yeah roger walks into their trailer obviously um this is 15 miles south of here uh in a town called tokoa t-o-c-c-o-a tocoa wow tacoa i don't know some somebody tried to spell taco and then fucked it all up what if we had a coco taco what would we call that a choco taco no no that's not right a tocoa that's much better. Fantastic. What a fucking mess.

So that's how that goes. He, okay, comes into the trailer and finds his wife, Faye, in bed with another man. Don't tell me. A man named George Hunt, who I'm sure has had a different name. first name is fred his first name is fred fred george hunt we go by george so he at that point finds him there so you think okay this is not going to go well you know it's the divorce yeah this is a oh this is much more than a divorce he's going to divorce someone from their life here jimmy and this is not the murder either that we're going to divorce somebody from their life here, Jimmy. And this is not the murder either that we're going to talk about. He's going to divorce somebody from breathing?

Yeah. Oh, this is just like an extra murder. This is a bonus murder here. Yeah, he takes, Roger does, his.22 revolver and shoots George Hunt in the head and kills him. Wow. Yeah, just shoots him. Kills the shit out of this guy right there in the trailer. Okay.

So Faye fucking took off as this is going on. She's like, oh, shit. He's got a gun and he's pissed. Yeah. He shoots at her and hits Faye as she's running away, too. Doesn't kill her, though, but hits her with a bullet. Jesus. So, he comes in the trailer and cleans house here.

Yes, he does. Okay. First of all, that's a crazy scene. Yeah. Right away. He came in the trailer. Oh, shit. He's some dude getting out of bed with his balls dangling down and he's shooting a gun at him.

Wife's running out. He's got a body to deal with now. Now he's got a body and now he shoots his wife as she's fleeing naked from the house the house from the trailer through the park it's quite the scene let's just say here that's the beginning of their relationship here pretty much still we'll talk about okay because it somehow continues after this she came back he's not done with her and she's not done with him somehow after that oh i'd say we've both wronged each other it's time to call it a day i feel like i've seen you kill a man. Yeah, you cheated on me.

I attempted murdered you. You know how it goes. You know, let's not parse what's worse and what's better. You know, let's just say. She's definitely aware of what he's capable of at this point, which is disturbing. That's the scary part. So, Jesus Christ. is disturbing that's the scary part so yeah jesus christ so october of 1976 a jury convicts roger hayes of voluntary manslaughter they choose that over murder here really yep because he the guy was

fucking his wife and so that he had a real heat of the moment, lost my mind in the heat of the moment that I walked in. I see a guy in there and my wife and I lost my shit and shot her and shot him and went crazy. Passion can drive you crazy. manslaughter here um now he also says that the attorneys the prosecutor says that hunt wasn't even there to to have sex with faye but it was instead there to sell faye a car okay which from what roger said though in the state they were in their negotiations had taken a turn for for the fun i don't know they're taking a definite definite different turn then that's what that's what george told his wife he was doing yeah that's yeah i'm gonna go sell this car he came back up she didn't want it she declined there's stains on the seat now maybe that's why so the judge sentences roger to two years in prison for this two years murdering

one man and and then shooting his wife wow two years he got for that which is incredible that's a very light sentence i would say for that feels uh yeah it's super light you can get out on on good behavior too right well that's the thing he is released after 11 months in prison so he does less than a year and they let him out unbelievable on fucking didn't even miss two memorial days that's crazy i'll be out for the super bowl next year no problem go cowboys or whoever the hell is. Incredible. It's crazy. So and also eight years of probation. OK.

Yeah. He certainly doesn't act like a man who is on probation when he gets out. No, no, no, no. As we'll talk about here. OK. Roger spends a year in Florida after he gets out of prison because, you know, he's like, I'm already I'm a felon. I might as well.

You know what I mean? We'll go to Florida, I guess. Blend in. So. Yeah, that's, I mean, you will. Yeah. In the 70s too, Florida was like Alaska where people like if they needed to start over and have like a new life, they like Florida was like this, you know, I can go there and no

one knows. Weird. It still is. It still is. But it's still like Alaska still still like that now but down there it was you can fuck up in florida and still stay in florida and start over yeah i watched on patrol over the weekend and the reruns of it and it was there was one man who was just hanging out in a dumpster and then they cut to another guy who was asleep on his back in a church

parking lot. And they woke him up and they said, what you doing here, pal? And he goes, I was just looking for booze in the bushes. And they were like, why would there be booze in the bushes?

He said, sometimes booze in bushes. Welcome to Florida. And he's all drunk. And they said, well, you can't sleep on the parking lot of the church here. Yeah. And he goes, all right. And he gets all drunk. And they said, well, you can't sleep on the parking lot of the church here. Yeah.

And he goes, all right. And he gets up and goes to walk away. And there's just shit all down the back of it, as you can see. And the cop goes, you got something on the back of your pants there? And he said, I know. I know. And he did the duck shit walk all out of the parking lot and made a left at the fucking corner and walked down the street just with shit all streaming down his ass he just walked away and he knew and he just he did

the shit walk i don't know how far he has to walk but i was like never mind the cops camera crew follow that guy now let's just we found the guy to follow yeah i want a documentary on how he ended up here right now and then i want tomorrow's story and the next day. Yeah. I'm sure every day it's fucking crazy. I want the Truman Show with this guy. He's shit-faced. He won't even notice the camera crew.

You won't even be looking for it. You don't have to fake a sky and all that shit. Just give him a couple of drinks. He seems very happy. He thinks the birds are cameras anyway. Yeah. they're all taking pictures of me but they can't see through shit so if you shit your pants it blocks out their radar jams it also also the cameras don't pick me up when i don't fucking care that's the other

thing you shit your pants then you don't. You lay down in a church parking lot because they ain't allowed to take pictures there. It's the law. It's bird law. Wow. Fucking Florida. Florida. So he spends time in Florida. Then after a year there, so he's been gone two years.

Yeah. Prison, Florida, you know. And then he comes back and takes him back with open arms oh my god they're ready to start over they're ready to try again isn't this heartwarming so far because if these two kids can't make it what chance do any of us have any of us any of us because if you can't come back from shooting your wife in a trailer while she allegedly fucked a guy or bought a car from him, one or the other. Right.

You know, what more can you do? But this is the kind of immature relationship that the last two years are going to be weighing on his mind because she didn't go to prison. No. She didn't go off to Florida. She stayed local. So he's going to be worrying, who'd you fuck these last two years? You didn't just stay celibate you fucked billy didn't you right i always seen you eyeballing billy when we went

to the bar that's exactly you know that's gonna happen those relationships are the worst it's fucking it's a nightmare and they've been together for over a decade now oh my god i mean dale is their kid he's born in 67 so it's been is not like a, that's a lot of baggage. This is a lot. Imagine what's going on in this relationship. So now Dale, young Dale says pretty much as soon as this parents got back together, you know, Roger just went right into being completely abusive to everybody around here. Um, he tried to choke.

Um, apparently they they they did this and while roger was fighting with fay apparently dale tried to when he was 12 tried to choke his father he tried to choke big roge yeah so it's like a choke chain going on here like he's choking fay and then dale's choking roger and then a sister who was there at some point, one of the other kids that Roger spit out here of his dick, fucking pulled Dale off of Roger. And let dad choke ma. I suppose so. Yeah. So that's how that went.

He says he remembers several incidents between his father and his mother. Here are the standouts. Here's the highlights of his young life here um he says he remembers his father throwing hot coffee in his mother's face at one point really more than once just right in her face when what the fuck when there was a problem um i've seen that as a weapon from a from a 7-eleven clerk when somebody's got a gun exactly you see like somebody in a diner's like put all your wallets in the bag and somebody and you run away remember in kingpin that was the plot they had to fool

the lady was hot coffee in the face so this is not something you do to obviously your wife a spouse yeah right this is crazy he remembers that before he had a driver's license dale well before when he was you know 12 13 it was his job to drive his drunken father around town wow he'd be like come on get the keys dale and he'd take him from to a bar and he'd sit outside in the car and roger'd go in and drink more and come out and he'd be like on to the titty bar and fucking dale would have to drive him like a little chauffeur with no license i mean that's the part that i don't like uh if i i kind of i i'm kind of envious of the genius of making your child would you call it more what's more irresponsible let's play that game to drive around shit-faced or to have your 13 year old who has no training or is not licensed

to drive a vehicle drive you around while you get shit-faced which is more irresponsible i mean at least at least the one behind the wheel is sober, although he can't reach the pedal. He's having a hard time with pedal reaching. Not a lot of experience. The clutch shifting is precarious. But in a small town, it's not like he's on freeway traffic, too. I mean, maybe it's not that dangerous. I'm going to say this is the more responsible thing to do.

Yes, you're putting your child at risk. But I want to see the kid sitting on phone books while his shit-faced father sits next to him out the window it's all right officer i told him it was okay and you know let's don't worry about it he's a good driver well i want to be there when he told when they get pulled over inevitably hitting a tree and the and he tells the officer which would you rather sir yeah i would have hit many trees by now there's only one we just skinned it trees people which which would you rather i would have hit the nuns at this point all you can do is take at him if it was me you'd

be arresting me i see boom and he said his mother pretty much always had a black eye of some kind there's always a black eye happening he's hitting her oh all the time yeah he's choking her throwing coffee in her face hitting her with uh giving her a black eye some of the implements he beat her with because you know he got bored using his fists after a while yeah and slapping her um dale would later say quote this man was a monster not a daddy he and here's a quote from him he beat my mother with a hunt's 64 ounce ketchup bottle now 64 yeah i don't mean to laugh obviously this is terrible and then you know it's nobody should be beating their spouse with anything no less yeah condiments but for the fact a 64 ounce ketchup bottle who the fuck what is that about i didn't even know you got them that big they're on the bottom shelf that's the bottom shelf

it's like i'm those are the ones you go i'm not spending 12 on ketchup and you don't buy it even though it's like four years worth of ketchup you're like that's too expensive for ketchup right yeah and by the way here's another thing hunts no there is one ketchup and it's heinz let's be honest every time hunts can do a lot of stuff with tomatoes but ketchup is not one of them i'm sorry that's hunts is bad ketchup you're buying 64 ounces of weird not consistent strange, strange, lumpy ketchup. No. If it was good, they'd have enough money to sponsor a football team stadium, which Heinz does.

Yeah. And that's the thing. And Hunts makes a ton of other products. Yeah. Their ketchup cannot carry. That ain't it. No. So that he.

Wow. A 64 ounce ketchup bottle, which I didn't know they made them that big. And now that's got to hurt. Oh, absolutely. It's a big thump. It's like that's heavy. I wonder if he's like it won't leave a mark like a phone book that he was thinking like, you know, like an old school cop beating his fucking interrogation. So I think the biggest I've seen is 24.

I think I've got a 24. I see 64. James, that's more've got a 24. 64, James. That's huge. 64 is a lot. That's more than a Big Gulp worth of ketchup. Yeah, that's the biggest one. That's your big boy right there, as Seinfeld would say. 64 is the biggest one that a gas station, I think, can legally sell here.

I don't think you're allowed to sell more than that, really, probably. You can't sell like a 140-ounce ketchup bottle. They'd be like, here's a 144. Like, you can't have a gross of ketchup bottle they'd be like here's a 144 like you can't have a gross of ketchup we can't let you have that it is gross it's literally it's gross too much and apparently it's a weapon so wow you should put a warning label on that uh don't beat your wife with this it'll hurt beat mom with that that's not over that's not And he beat mom with that. That's not over. That's not all he beat her with. Oh? So he has beat my mother with, and he's going to list the implements now, a 64-ounce ketchup bottle with Coke bottles. And those are the glass Coke bottles from back in the day.

Thick gauge. Yeah, we're not talking a 20-ouncer because you could beat the shit out of someone with an empty 20-ounce Coke bottle. It won't hurt them at all. You've never seen anybody break a Coke bottle to fight with? No, they're too thick. Because that- They'll just shatter everywhere. You'd have no effort left to fight if you've got to try to break that. Yeah.

Hang on a minute. Hit me like 12 times. Those are thick. And then you'd just be like, well, fuck, I'm just going to beat him with this. This thing's sturdy. Yeah, and then you'd just be like, well, fuck, I'm just going to beat him with this. This thing's sturdy. Jesus, never mind. If you were going to fight somebody and break a Coke bottle, yeah, you're better off just hitting him with it. Just hit him with the blunt object.

It's a fucking hammer. Jesus. So he hit his wife with it. This isn't like a guy in a bar fight. He hit his wife. Right. Quote, frying pans. Okay, that's a.

I mean, I've seen that before that before yeah i've heard of that usually the other way usually it's the woman beating a guy with a frying pan right in all like the cartoons you've seen yeah this is an abusive lunatic doing it or or an old lady trying to get the cat out of the house yeah exactly young exactly. Go on, now get. Yeah. So now she's been beaten up, shot. Shot. She's been shot by this man. Yeah. Shot.

Beaten with a fucking ketchup bottle, Coke bottles, frying pans. Quote, he stomped her until her lungs collapsed at one point. Stomped her body until she had a collapsed lung feet with his feet this man's a fucking monster obviously why why is he if you if you're in a point where you can a you can shoot her but be like you're to a point where you're you're stomping her you don't even care about this no no you're just no love in this. You just own them now. Right. That's what he's doing.

Jesus Christ. She's out of line and he's correcting. This is post. He's a sick fuck, this guy. This is post-Florida. This is post-Florida. Yeah. He came back.

Everything's going to be flowers and candy. And instead it's ketchup bottles and frying pans. It's a different story. He went to the beach and came back worse. Came back angry florida did this to him everybody yeah this is what happens don't go to florida that's what happens so he said he's chased me this is dale he's chased me with shotguns his son now yeah which is another level of crazy people abuse their spouses that's horrible yeah your kids are a whole different

thing they never chose to be there they you know they didn't ever say i do they fucking were born and there they are they have no choice it's even worse to me um he's chased me with shotguns he's chased me with one and has pulled handguns on me a couple of times a couple of times and he has dragged me behind the car behind the car dragged dragged me behind the car like you have to be like on his back and he was like you can lose all kinds of limbs and that's absolutely attempted murder. Absolutely. Dragging somebody behind a car. A hundred percent. You don't do that to your kids.

Well, maybe you do. That's like mild, I guess, compared to being chased with shotguns and having handguns pulled on them. Well, it's more barbaric. It's shit ISIS does. Like, that's how they execute people. It's fucking bonkers. Yeah, it's shit that, you know, I mean, they probably got it from him. There's plenty of truck draggings that have gone on in this region.

And he decides my son is a candidate for it, which is absolutely fucking horrific. So he said, though, he just wished his dad would be better all the time. Yeah. I just wish he wouldn't be such a bad asshole you know that's it so he didn't hate his dad he didn't just didn't understand what the fuck was wrong with him and why he was beating everybody is yeah he's obviously a terrible guy so yeah um he said at one point too he remembers that his father he has a heart he said he's horrified by the memory of his father holding a shotgun under his own chin, Roger holding it to himself, and threatening to blow his brains out in front of his family. Jesus.

So this kid has seen some shit in his life. He's seen all of the shit. Like, you can't even imagine. These are just his highlights. Right. This isn't even just the everyday craziness so just imagine the amount of shit that's built up in this guy's head wow he said he always feared his father's suicide and he also feared that someone might murder his father also because

his father's crazy and does crazy shit and makes enemies obviously this isn't a guy who then goes out in the world and he's an upstanding normal guy no he's he's chasing his kids around in public with shotguns like this is dragging them your neighbors can see you drag your child behind a car you don't do that shit and then show up to h and r block you don't do that that's what i mean he's he's a this isn't like behind closed doors and nobody knows about it and she said she fell and hit a doorknob. This is constant. Everybody knows.

He also says, Dale, that when he was in his early teens, which is he's been driving him around drunk and thwarting suicide attempts and talking his dad down from shooting him and stuff. He said his father then also started sexually abusing him as well sexually abusing him the kid yes his son dale oh that's his claim here too in the 80s and this was this would be like 1980 yeah early early 80s so jesus yeah he said uh dale said this went on for some time and i was very scared to say anything. Is he saying like dad was deriving pleasure from this or it was just like beating his balls to like. No, no. There's physical abuse of him beating him up and threatening him with guns and stuff. And then there was now we're going to go into the back room and I'm going to make up. Oh, boy.

Disgusting sexual things too so jesus that's what he's claiming um he said that uh quote i was a child i couldn't talk to my mom i was afraid she would suffer a beating because what's he gonna do tell his mom and then his mom yells at his dad and then then he beats the shit out of her and then then we're back to one now. Like, she's gotten the shit beaten out of her and I'm still getting molested and nobody's helped anybody here. Yeah. No one ever thought to go to the cops ever

or go to, that never came up. Never. Go to the cops. Like, for anybody, a neighbor, a family member. Can't tell me nobody in anybody's family knew what was going on here. Somebody knew something. Everybody's got to know everything.

That's what I mean. It's not, I mean, I get that Faye is scared and Dale is scared, but someone around had to. This feels pretty open. I spy some shit here. I mean, what the fuck? Just him going around town. Just the fact that he's making his kid drive while he's drunk, you'd think someone would call social services and be like, I don't think this is good parenting. That's generally, if it's that bad and it's open with that yeah it's there's worse things happening

and that's a horrible thing to not because he's gonna tell his mom it's not gonna help so he said i was only a kid and i did not know what to do fair enough so um by 1980, Faye, uh, wow. Um, Faye has a different, uh, uh, approach to this whole thing. Yeah. He said in, in 1980, my mother tried to kill him at the unemployment office here in Takoa with a 12 gauge shotgun at the, with a With an audience. At the unemployment office. With a federal audience, right? At the bar.

Or is that just state audience? I don't know which that would be, but Jesus, either way. It's an audience. Yeah, there's government employees sitting there. Yeah. That's crazy. What the shit? Other people.

I mean, it's bad enough you have to go to the unemployment office unemployment office. We got to be in the middle of this, too. Imagine being one of the other people there. Are you fucking kidding me? Jesus, leave me alone. God, take your shit back to the trailer. I'm just trying to get my check. I don't want him to have to clean his brains while cutting me a check. Oh, shit.

Dale said I had unloaded my mother's gun several times. She kept reloading it and he would unload it. Wow. Only to find out that she had another shell. So he said he thought he had unloaded the shotgun, but apparently she had another shell. She threw one in there. She had one in there. He said, I jumped between him and the gun and saved his life.

So he human shielded his father from being shot by his mother at the unemployment office with her reserve shell with her reserve shell yeah this is the one she kept in her back pocket with her back pocket shell that means they always have a shotgun in the truck because otherwise he would be like why is there a shotgun in the truck well this is a 71 ford ltd actually that he's driving in an ltd in a car in a car there's always a shotgun laid across the back just laid across the back seat you never you don't never know when you gonna need it oh my god where are we going to the unemployment office load the gun let's go that 12 gauge in the back seat we're gonna need that probably i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media will have to come to the conclusion that i killed my wife hi my name is zach stewart pontier i'm one

of the filmmakers behind the jinx and i'm excited to bring you the official jinx podcast we'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California,

Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal.

Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts oh my god so she said he said i jumped between him and the gun and saved his life she blew a hole in the back of his 71 ford ltd oh my. She shot at the car as he peeled away. She shot the car. Wow.

As he tried to drive away after the sun had shielded him, then she shot the fucking car as he drove away. I just see the trunk popping up after this. This is... That white vinyl roof falling apart. This movie is crazy, first of all.

It is, yeah. If this is is going on you're like holy shit this is harrowing she discharged a 12 gauge shotgun in the parking lot of the unemployment office unbelievable as he drove away in fear as the sun after the sun shielded him

human shielded him unbelievable everyone in town had to have seen this right everybody's looking out the window going oh shit it's happening now yeah wow so that is some shit right there um he said she was tired of going through all the torture and wanted it to be over well that'll do it yeah i mean there's there's there's another way wow Wow. So, yeah. So now through the 80s, eventually, Faye and Roger split up. Okay. This eventually, you know, peters out without anyone being killed somehow, which is absolutely remarkable, to be honest with you.

It's 100% luck. It's not doing any of their doing. How many times will someone shoot at someone and miss in this household? Right. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. This is just pure luck. So Roger, he's going to move on.

He's going to meet somebody else, of course, obviously. Faye, though, very lucky, kind of gets herself out of the story at this point. Good for Faye. Good for you, Faye. You are so lucky. So of gets herself out of the story at this point. Good for Faye. Good for you, Faye. You are so lucky. So Roger meets someone else. He moves on here. Problem is, the woman he meets this year in 1989, he pretty much has the same relationship with because there's a warrant issued for his arrest.

The warrant issued for his arrest that alleges he punched the woman in the head, threw her to the ground, then grabbed her by the by the hair and banged her head against a wall repeatedly saying, I love you. Basically, Ralphie from The Sopranos with that. Yeah, that's what he did to her. Pretty much. Yeah. Wow. Deputies charged him with simple battery. Very simple.

That's not simple. I'm sorry. No. That's complicated battery. There's got to be a different charge for that. I would say one hit is simple. Yeah. Once you go into throwing on the ground, punching, slamming someone's head, now this is a complicated battery. Multiple accounts of assault in a fight that's

aggravated battery it's multi-layered assault to me yes i think the fight was over once you hit her and threw her to the quote-unquote fight which is not a fight but whatever the abuse was over but he said no no no not done yet that's that's battery if it's not just assault or simple assault is what they call battery simple battery and uh it doesn't matter what they call it because the district attorney dismisses the case about six months later anyway so it doesn't matter they dismissed i don't know no proof which may meant she probably didn't want to testify anymore or didn't wasn't into the helping the prosecution at that point you don't have any witnesses. You have a police report and her going, nope, that didn't happen. And then that's what you get.

At least I wasn't shot. How many times have we seen that on Crime and Sports where afterwards, no, that didn't happen at all. You didn't – look, this is a picture of you with your face swollen. I don't know what happened there. That's a weird picture. Yeah. So he gets – he's unpunished and all that kind of thing.

Yeah. So he's unpunished and all that kind of thing. Dale, though, by this time, by the mid-'80s, he's an angry guy. He's a cauldron. He certainly should be. As you may expect. Yeah. He grew up hard. This is a shit way to grow up.

This is tough. He's watched his father beat multiple partners, and then also that same father molested him. Molested him, beat him, threatened to kill him, dragged him behind a truck. He saved his father's life on several occasions. And yeah, it's a lot. So he said that the problem is, though, he starts to just turn into a little version of his father. Fuck. Because that's what happens.

When people grow up like this, they either are the opposite of that or that. That's how it works. You're either taught this is how it is or taught that this is not how it is. One or the other, and you're going to do one or the other, and that's how it works here. But you've definitely seen a blueprint

for how to act like this is the problem. A lot of people don't even think to act like this. They wouldn't even think of it. They have to be shown this is a possibility. Doesn't occur. So, and he said that, you know, he just started to be like him. By 1986, Dale is in and out of jail all the time. Yeah.

Which is just like he's barely an adult. But in and out of jail. A lot of car thieving. A lot of car stealing really he likes to steal him some cars dale does oh yeah i get it i get the rush and back then though cars were so easy to steal yeah and then they love he loved it he just loved it and they were a lot easier now too no gps on them no yeah right now that you don't even have a key you gotta press the button but you have to have the key fob thing exactly it's a pain in the dick i don't know i wouldn't even know

where to begin with those a screwdriver isn't going to help much now whereas back then it's you're in the fuck that could get you that could get you in business just that's the master key in a lot of ways your investment in a stolen car business was a screwdriver dad's top drawer and his toolbox is a lot of cars one of those long flat heads you're set that'll open a lot of them that'll do it so he ends up in prison uh here he goes in on january 3rd 1986 and he is let out on januaryst, 1987. Okay. Does a year. So, I mean, that's decent for Carth even. That's a lot of, not the first time probably.

Right. You got to stack a few to get a year. That's what I'm saying. So, by 87, he gets in trouble for theft, burglary, all sorts of shit. Leaving cars out of it, just going right in the house. Yeah, thieving, burglaring, this, that, just stealing whatever he wants. There's a lot here going on. He's in the middle of a five-year sentence. He's sentenced to five years in prison.

That's how much. Yeah. Because, I mean, he had just gotten out earlier that year of prison. Yeah. And he's doing the same shit again. But he's escalating and going into the house now, which is so much more dangerous. Oh, God, yeah. If he finds a gun and he's in a position where he feels desperate, somebody's dying.

Someone's dying. He's dying. You go into someone's house, things definitely can go off the rails. You're up in the ante for sure. That's a lot. Now, he's going to actually stay in jail for over four years now. He's going to do four years. He's going to do four out of the five.

He doesn't get out until November 5th, 1991. Jesus. But he'll get himself out a couple of times in the meantime. Stop it. Oh, no, no. You can't hold on to Dale. He's a slippery sort of cuss here. He moves around, Dale.

He likes to move. Yeah, you can't hold him down here. So the county sheriff, Don Page, recalls Dale broke loose while he was on work to tell the first time. He stole a white pickup truck and took off. How did he get a screwdriver? Yeah, where did the get a screwdriver? Yeah. Where did the screwdriver come from? He's on work detail.

That's all I need. Stole a white pickup, takes off, and they're so casual, the sheriffs, they go, we captured him within a few weeks. Few weeks? Weeks. He was gone. Weeks. No biggie.

A prison fucking issue pickup truck. They couldn't find him for weeks. Weeks. Weeks. He was gone. Weeks. No biggie. Driving a prison fucking issue pickup truck. They couldn't find him for weeks. How the fuck are they going to catch him if he gets any sort of anything that doesn't look prison issue? Yeah, that doesn't say prison on the side of it. Jesus Christ. Anything that doesn't say prison farm on the tailgate. How are they gonna catch him oh my god so he's out for a few weeks yeah they don't act like that was a big deal they

were like i mean you know it happens we got him a few weeks the sheriff don page said that when he arrived on the scene to arrest dale because they got a tip on where he was he said he arrived to arrest him and dale said quote go ahead and shoot me. I don't blame you if you do. Oh, my God. He wasn't armed or anything. It wasn't like, you know, suicide by cop. He was just begging for it.

Come on. Give it to me. I'm probably due. I'm due for it. Oh, Jesus. So they bring him back. You think he'd go, okay, well, that was stupid. You know.

I've learned my lesson. Yeah. He just said, I did learn my lesson, but that's to escape better next time. Yeah, that's just better. Yeah, you got to do better. So less than a month later, they bring him back to prison. And less than a month later, he noticed that the room where deputies were holding him while something was they were doing something right it was unlocked so he just got while the

deputies were in like the next area getting some paperwork or something he just got up opened the door and fucking took off just ran away ran away didn't even need a screwdriver this time. Go on. We don't call that an escape. That's just a walk away, right? They let him go. Yeah. That's almost a release. That's on them. Yeah.

That's almost a parole almost there. Just a casual parole is what that is. So the sheriff says, well, we'll get this son of a bitch. Immediately releases the bloodhounds. Really? Releases the hounds first near the jail and then hours later near the hospital, anywhere where he might have gone. Turns out, by the way, he was hiding in the bushes watching all this happen. the bushes watching all this happen rather than run away he stood by close so they would do exactly what they did and now overrun him and then he could take off there he just hid behind the front

door yeah he walked out came over here and hid in the bushes these bloodhounds are terrible at their jobs by the way that's the worst bloodhounds ever they went their jobs, by the way. That's the worst bloodhounds ever. They went outside. It's literally the trail was 10 feet long and they instead ended up, you know, on the other side of the parking lot and everything else. So he Dale, once he gets recaptured, he'll end up, you know, this isn't like he doesn't go free forever. Now, he told the sheriff he was hiding in the bushes the whole damn time. He said he saw the bloodhounds and the sheriff's boots passing by back and forth and then take off. Well, he's not here. And they left.

He said he was three feet from them. Right. Just in the jiggle in his ass. Yeah. Trying to hold in giggles so he doesn't get caught. So the bushes don't shake. Jesus. Unreal.

The sheriff said, quote, he was real slick. No, you are not. That's the thing. He hid in a bush outside the fucking door. That ain't slick at all. That's a Three Stooges move. You're all terrible at your job. That's what this is.

He was real slick just going and hiding right where we should find him easy. He knew we'd never think of that. Unbelievable. What the fuck? So Dale took off from the bushes. Once they left to look for him more, he just walked away. And then he made it to the base of the Appalachian Trail, which starts down there. Where's the start of that?

Is that in Tennessee? No, no, it's in Georgia. It's in northern Georgia there. Yeah, yeah. It's in northern Georgia, and it goes all the way. It goes past my house. Yeah, I was going to say And it goes all the way. It goes past my house. Yeah. I was going to say it goes past fucking Pennsylvania. We could go there when we're done and we'll fucking be there.

I don't want to see it. Oh, no, no. It's pretty up here. Up there it's fine. Oh, it's gorgeous up here. Yeah. It's a nice area. It's all like.

Pennsylvania's. Hikers. Yeah. Pennsylvania's just full of women with hairy armpits. It's so cool. No, up here in New York, you'll just get offered a lot of joints. Like, hey, you know, it's just people who want to go in york you'll just get offered a lot of joints like hey you know it's just people who want to go in the woods and smoke pot let's go for a walk yeah let's

go for it might be dark out maybe tomorrow but we'll go we'll go yeah so he said that um he made it to the base of the appalachian trail where he steals a red honda okay of course you know he's got to do his thing hope it was that prelude with the four-wheel steering those are badass those are fucking great those were fucking cool when i was a teenager i wanted one of those so bad i liked them a lot they were real expensive yeah they were nine grand yeah i had like a 10 year old osmobile i wasn't getting one of those things i wasn't happy i had a girlfriend that uh made a left out of a parking lot that had the median in the middle lane. And she tore the fucking undercarriage.

Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. It was like six foot concrete. Tatum and Greenway is where she hit it. Oh, my God. Tore the whole undercarriage out of that thing. Four wheel steering no more. Yeah. The passenger seat screaming there's there's a median there's me and then we blasted it that must have sounded horrible she started crying i was like i can't be here i gotta go

i think i'd cry if i did that too probably, probably. Just sitting there. I think she was crying because she was super stoned, obviously. And she had to call her dad. He had to come over there and talk to her. Well, she's super high with the whole undercarriage of her car in the street. Jesus Christ. Great car that was trashed. Oh, my God. What a fucking mess.

So maybe that's what he stole. It was red. That's all we do know. It's red. Hers was red, too. Same thing. Oh, there we go. Maybe it was hers.

So he stole that. Then he found in the Honda, he found a checkbook in the glove compartment. Let's write some checks. He takes the checkbook and buys a red Chevelle. He buys another car. A Chevelle, a cooler car. Yeah. This one's not stolen, too, so this is better.

This one he owns. He owns this, yeah, with this red Honda's checkbook. He wrote a check with somebody else's name on it for a car and then got the title. Has to put his name on this now. Yeah, I'm sure he just said. So there's a paper trail. There has to be. He's wearing a prison outfit.

I feel like you didn't go to the most reputable dealership. Great point. Somebody's got a commission. A shackle with a chain dangling off it as he came up to buy it. People had to know that something was up. He drugged the whole ball there. He's got the ball and the chain. He's carrying it with him.

Checkbook in one hand, ball in the other. He's like, I got you a check mister i like this red chevelle maybe i could take it for a test drive so he buys the red chevelle doesn't trade in the honda though as you might imagine he just set that on fire oh just burned it burned up burned up the red honda So he's now driving a red Chevelle that he technically owns. It's his. At the base of the Appalachian Trail. Okay. Three months go by.

He escaped for three months. They are not good at catching people here. No. In this area, I will say, because this is awful. Yeah. Three months he escapes for. He's just around and granted there's no really uh danger to society he's not like a murderer or anything

like that or a child molester he's just an asshole but he's certainly a reckless son of a bitch yeah he's stealing he'll steal your car set it on fire buy a buy a chevelle with your checkbook he's not a good guy to have around but luckily he hasn't murdered anybody that person's his biggest victim at this moment he torched their car and bought another car on them on their account that's fucked up it's like he knew the person like he had an inform or something that's really messed up man he paid cash for a car with your cash that's fucking foul man foul so that's great so three months goes by yeah and the sheriff they're just pretty much like well he'll turn up eventually like they'd stopped actively looking for him they don't know he's just like there's an active deal for him if you see this guy you

know bring him on in yeah yeah but he crimes a lot he's got a crime at some point. I mean, he's criming all over the place. Crimin' everywhere. How do you not crime? He crimes more than a crimer should crime, every crime. So he gets a call from a guy, the sheriff does, and this man said, there's a feller I know y'all are looking for. I believe I know where he is. Oh.

They go, well, how do you know? He goes, well, I gave him a ride. Oh. They go, well, how do you know? He goes, well, I gave him a ride. Oh. They go, a ride? He said, yeah, I picked him up on the side of the road. He crashed his motorcycle. He has a motorcycle? Yes.

Now he's got a motorcycle. That's what I mean. Another vehicle. Now he's got a motorcycle that he's obviously not very good at riding. The man's got multiple forms of transportation. This is why he doesn't get caught. He's always changing changing it up so they're not even looking for a motorcycle the sheriff's like motorcycle damn it i didn't even think of that shit so he crashed the motorcycle and this guy said so then i drove him he said can you drive me to my father's trailer so i believe at least know where your father's

trailer is here's the address i think it where your father's trailer is here's the address i think it's his father's house go here so the cops went there and um the deputy goes to the trailer yeah and gets up on the porch and hears someone snoring inside perfect so he called the sheriff on his radio the sheriff came they burst the door, and there was Dale asleep on the couch. He opened his eyes to the sheriff and deputy standing over him going, Dale? Morning. Morning. We found you, which is amazing.

Was that Roger's place? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he was at Roger's place. He was hanging out in Roger's trailer. So after all this. Yeah, he was at Roger's place. He was hanging out in Roger's trailer. So after all this. Yeah, that's still a safe place. Still goes back there. So this time he went to a different jail because they said, obviously, that jail can't hold you.

So we'll put you in a different jail. Ain't breaking out of this one finally. There you go. Dale locked the door behind him. And then a month later, he escapes again. Incredible. Three escapes under his belt three escapes that's why he did four years on a five year sentence because he escaped three fucking times he was captured within a few days there after that though he was you know captured then spends the next three years basically on lockdown, just fucking lockdown. He has charges of escape, auto theft, arson, forgery, you know, all that stuff.

All of them. He is found guilty as well here. And in October 1990, he is sentenced to, you sir may fuck off, another four years in prison. to you sir may fuck off another four years in prison but but he gets credit somehow even though he hadn't committed the crimes yet he gets credit for time served that he was in there for the first crimes he got four years and then he got four more years but they put those four years they said well you did four years you did four years already. You did four. You just got done doing four. That, I don't think they did it on purpose. I think somebody saw four and four matched him up and was like, let him go.

Paperwork. Oh, shit, he's been here for four years. Four equals four. Bye. Bye later. Have a good one, y'all. Don't steal any cars. I mean, I think you have to add on extra time because he escaped.

He did that in the commission of doing that time. Therefore, you tack it on. That time has nothing to do with this other time. He wouldn't have done those crimes and gotten more time if he hadn't just fucking escaped. I don't even know what to say about that. But he is let go in November 1991. Unbelievable. They let him go. That tells me they don't even know what to say about that, but he is let go in November 1991. Unbelievable. They let him go.

That tells me they don't want him. No, he's a pain in the ass. Yeah. He keeps escaping. Yeah. You got to keep a constant eye on him or else he'll escape. I mean, most of the people in there, even if the door was left open, they'd go, you left the door open because they don't want another charge. They're like, I'm just going to wait this out.

Roger's like, I'll steal five cars, set one on fire, buy a Chevelle, get a motorcycle, and I'll be. They have a point there. Those four years, he wouldn't have done the crimes that got him those four years had they locked the door. Had they locked the fucking door. Maybe they said, you know what? Some of this is on us. We deserve that yeah the first two escapes that's the yeah that was on you but this one this is our bad this is us yeah we just left

a door open on the first one so that's not the second one that's not great so back to roger okay roger by now has a new wife yeah not the woman he punched and beat against the wall she's gone they're all gone he met a completely different woman now named desiree okay she goes by desi okay yeah they had by now have a little girl named erica already oh boy it's born about 1990 ish here that's a 50 year old man that's a 50-year-old man. That's a 50-year-old man. Yes, absolutely, at this point. 50-year-old man who has a little girl now.

Brand new father. Brand new father. Of course. Yeah. So the problem is the relationship, the marriage, is not going very well with Desi. I can't imagine. Weird, right? Yeah.

Here's his attorney, Richard Tunkel tunkel dick tunkel this is old dicky tunkel said quote when uh we start when roger hayes comes into my office he comes to see me for a divorce yeah so he wants a divorce now tunkel said he's only known roger hay the last couple years, but he sounds nothing like the man who's been described all the way up to this point, according to his attorney. He said by now, he said he's a man who's found God. Real. Changed his ways. Not the same guy. They said that he's a doting father and loves his little girl Erica and spends all his time reading her bedtime stories and no drunken escapades and no beatings, no shotguns, no ketchup bottles. He doesn't even like ketchup anymore.

Late bloomer, this guy. He's got all mustard. Yeah. He needed to wait until he was in his mid-50s to not be a complete menace to society. Perfect. So now he said that right after Dale gets out of prison, he moves in with Roger, Desi, and their kid Erica here. Okay. So you got Dale, Roger, Desiree, and a baby, essentially.

This is a strange household. Near 30-year-old old man is that how old at this point he is 24 would be dale 24 years old and we got a real wow weird multi-generational this is like modern family but yeah you know north georgia style yeah some trailer style yeah Yeah. You know, North Georgia style. Yeah. Trailer style. Yeah. It's different. So after he's been there a while, this is a quote from Dickie Tunkel here, the lawyer. After he, meaning Dale, has been there for a while, Roger starts noticing what looks like Desi and Dale getting together. What? His wife and his son. what looks like Desi and Dale getting together. What? His wife and his son.

Oh, boy. Quote, he's getting suspicious about how they're acting. All right. So no proof. He doesn't. But he's just. But also, this guy's a very suspicious guy. And he's.

Sure. Yeah. Imagine the reasons in his mind quote unquote reasons he gives for beating or the shit out of his family perceived slights his his his paranoia is deep he's been runs real deep and jesus and the god that he's found is trying to talk him out of it but he is he's he's in it to win it. He's trying hard. So he said that he's getting suspicious about how they're acting. But, you know, like we said, could be his paranoia. Well, Dickie Tunkel says no. Quote, so he comes home one day and Desi and Dale have taken off with Erica.

Oh, they've left. They left, took the baby, and fucking moved out. Gone. He's going to her his his daughter sister apparently yeah that's that's what we're gonna get to now so okay this is at he's a fucking ex-con who torches cars and steals shit and he's known for being able to escape from jail he's also known around town as a guy who can down multiple fifths of vodka and still be able to stand and function fifth fifth of vodka and still be like he's known for it like oh man yeah you

can't you can't drink him under the table buddy he can still walk away after three fifths of fucking belvedere the man belvedere he's drinking five fifths. That's one. That's one vodka. That's a whole. He drank a whole vodka, that man. We call that man whole vodka. Why? Because he drinks five fifths. Five fifths. We call him whole number. Wow. What the

fuck? So that's a good couple, I think, here. So this is like 95, this is like 96-ish. So Eric is like six years old wow um it's fucking very interesting um he says here by the way i'll just give you from a court document here okay later on roger hayes and his ex- Desi, were involved in a custody dispute over their seven-year-old daughter, Erica Marie Hayes. Roger had custody of Erica, and she lived with him and his then-wife, who we'll talk about in a minute here, Kathy Rosemary Hayes, in a mobile home. At that time, Desi was married to Dale Hayes, who was Roger's son, making Dale Erica's stepfather and half-brother.

That is a daddy-brother. This is my daddy-brother? This is my brother-daddy? Oh, my God. I just... This is my brother-daddy. Listen... Have we had a brother daddy before is this a have we hit a hillbilly first for small town

murder because that doesn't happen often that's too much did it take 431 episodes to get a fucking brother daddy before that happened did i ever tell you my dad's ex ex-wife's kid uh married her sister's kid her sister's ex-husband and what the fuck does that mean is that a niece daddy what's going on my dad's ex-wife had two daughters one of them married a man divorced him then the other daughter married him uh and stayed with him uh but both both daughters had children with them and their kids to his face call him call him uncle daddy oh my god my head hurts uncle daddy hurts and this is not in northern georgia that is in that is in arizona yeah it does not surprise me either after living there for 23 years there's a few uncle daddies going on now.

It's gross, you guys. Stop it. I feel like brother daddy's even weirder. No? It is. It's weird. It's so much closer. That's too deep.

It's so creepy and weird. If you're in the pool of incest, you're just walking deeper and deeper to the diving section your brother daddy you're like hold on i gotta put my chin up so it doesn't go okay it's as much as i can go brother daddy your mouth's in the water and you're just like yeah like and you're breathing out heavy you're breathing out heavy to push the water away so that you can breathe in it's a mess brother daddy brother daddy too close huh so this is from that article by the way i like how she put this stories like haze's do seem to emerge from the recesses of decency uh the back of the backwoods but something about the way haze explains himself is thoughtful he's articulate yeah okay great yeah um wow so roger the dad's

going through the divorce and he has temporary custody of erica he's got erica he's got erica he meets a woman named kathy van hook at this point yeah kathy van hook is 16 years younger than him yeah and they maybe is maybe his fifth or sixth quote-unquote wife who knows yeah i don't know how many ketchup bottles he's gone through but a few that's a lot so the dickie tunkel the lawyer says he married kathy within a year jesus he he is a quick to latch on smooth, I would see them all the time. They had a real nice, clean house, and Erica was doing great in school. Okay. All right?

And it was just like a little happy family thing. He was really into this church thing in Christianity. This whole church thing. Tunkle doesn't sound religious. No. He's into this whole church thing. I don't know. Christianity, maybe?

Newfangled church. Ever hear – hold on. Let me read it off the paper. Christianity. You ever hear of that? No, me neither. See, I'd have never heard of it. Weird.

And the lawyer said, I've never really picked up on that before. Like he wasn't into religion. Yeah. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Yeah. He said he'd see them together around town, sitting together and quote, nuzzling like lovebirds. Well, yeah.

If you're if you're in your 50s and you got somebody in their 30s into you, you're going to nuzzle the shit out of her. I'll nuzzle you up, girl. So not only that, they're newlyweds and they've only been together for a little over a year. So, I mean, they're still new. It's still new, new, new. He said, apparently, they were doing great, and I was gratified. The child was in a good home. Daddy loved his little girl and took care of her and was married to a very good woman.

So it seems like Roger apparently has turned it all around here he's it's late but better late than never i suppose but he's done so much horrible shit so much bad he's killed people truly yeah he's molested his kids beat his wife with a ketchup bottle and a frying pan shot a guy to death shot his wife he's ruined lives he's a terrible man being being fine when you're too tired to fucking be a dick anymore doesn't make up for it on the course to redemption jesus christ he's just got a knee injury and a sore knee and stuff it's hard to get out and do all that there's more to relax and now that's all there's a dead man now dale says it wasn't like that at all he wasn't all he wasn't

all happy and flowers at this point like the lawyer says dale said no dale said his father would harass him and desi and would take pictures of them which makes sense because if there's something that looks like unsafe for the kid they're in the middle of a custody battle right so for him to take pictures of you know if they have like a big jagged piece of metal sitting out in the front yard or some shit like that you know you go hey look at that can't have the kid playing with that right stuff like that makes sense but this makes less sense for that okay you can't spin this for rogers doing something nice dale also accused him of quote firing a gun in their front yard and then peeling out and spinning out in the dirt in their driveway oh my yeah so according to him it's more than just court documentation

he's harassing them and he's mad which i would assume he would be mad i mean that's the first understandable emotion that rogers had this entire episode is this, to be upset by this. You know what I'm saying? So he, Dale says, no, no, no, no, no. This is nothing like that. He claims, even though this isn't true, because in reality, you know, Roger came home and they left with the kid. But he says that, no, no, I didn't even meet her till after she separated from my father, which is not true because he moved into the house while they were together and she was there. He's a saint.

I'm saying it. I'm saying it. He never, by the way, mentions and like he doesn't bring up that he lived with them at all, which is on record as being a thing. them at all which is on record as being a thing he says he offered desi his stepmother just being a nice guy and his half sister erica a place to stay until they could find somewhere better to go you know i'm a great guy is the thing guy yeah and and i just she slipped and fell and i scooped her and it was romantic. It's too much. You ever seen in the movies, you know, they're having a snowball fight, then they fall down

giggling and one's in each other's arms. You just go, well, I guess we're just going to, you know, we're so close. You might as well just put it in there. Be my mommy lover. Okay. And then we just do it. You know, it's happened to everybody. We've all seen it.

Be my mommy wife. Yeah. Will you be my mommy wife? That's the proposal, I'm sure. So gross. What the fuck is happening? But he said, you know what? Before she could find decent shelter, an affair started.

Yeah. So he says he was just sitting around going oh no not my poor little half-sister who i've just met and my fourth stepmother that i've had in my life that whatever they need a place to stay that wasn't that's all it was a pure innocence here pure innocence that's amazing it's not necessarily i mean porn, this is the homepage every day. This is half of porn. Stepmom is a thing, for sure. He's taken it to another level. There's no category for marrying your stepmom and being a father to your little sister.

That's not a category. That's not a fantasy that anybody has, I don't think. Not at all. It's technically not incestuuously illegal but it's certainly fucking weird it's absolutely strange behavior we'll say so i know a girl who fucked her her sister's husband's son and it's a it's a step-nephew that's yeah still gross still gross Still gross. Still gross. This is, you know. You can't do it. You just can't.

He's shouting out, oh, mama, I'm going to cum. And he means it. That's not good. When you're in the middle of sex, you should be able to think of a, the way you met this person is nobody would question this. If I told somebody, I just fucked this person, where'd you meet her? From here. Oh, you guys don't know each other. That's great.

But if you, I fucked my sister's husband's son? Yeah. You did what? What's that now? You know that's wrong. Where'd you meet her? While she was marrying my daddy. That's how we met.

At the wedding. Where did I meet her when I went to visit my pa? While I stood next, while I was marrying my daddy that's how we met at the wedding where did i meet her when i went to visit my pa well i stood next while i was daddy's best man he said this here's my wife and i said is that right is it now he then said quote desi and i never had a stepson stepmother relationship yes you did according to porn hub you had the most stepmother steps on a relationship this is the quintessential one he said if we would have then i could see where it would look perverted no but now i'm just fucking my you know i'm fucking my mommy wife and i'm being brother daddy to my little sister. There ain't nothing weird about that.

When you've got multiple ways that you can describe somebody. Yeah. In your relation. It's a problem. They should be related to you once. Right. Just once. They got one title.

One title. One title. Once you add more on to that. Okay. Now we got another. This is a whole issue here. Boyfriend, step-nephew. No.

No. Mother. How's Erica going to go to school and what's she going to say? Who's that picking me up today? Oh, my step-daddy brother. Oh, they're both here? Nope. No.

Mostly he's my half-brother, but also kind of my dad. Also, he plows my mom. They got married in October 97. Yeah yeah and she and that boy are not step that's half that's much that unzip the dna they both have one half matches half matches not good they get full-on married so now she has married a man and his son which is oh my god desi your decisions are and the two guys she married too neither of them are great guys so right what is up with her decision making her bits are terrible wow her her radar is definitely jammed here so that's october 1997 and at the during that time too too, a judge granted Roger and Kathy full custody of Erica.

Yeah, because mom's decision-making is super questionable. Yeah, he basically got Roger and Kathy up there, and he goes, y'all related in any way? And they said, nope. And he goes, well, it's way less weird than what's going on over at mom's house. You win. Take her. Take the girl. Oh, my God.

This is fucking insane. See why we're doing this episode? The murders are even crazier. Where do we get these kids? Hasn't even happened yet. Hasn't even happened. We've had murder plenty. There has.

Violence and everything, but murder hasn't happened yet. So the judge allows desi only supervised visitation with erica okay and dale is not allowed to be in the presence of the child according to this judge how did his dad make him out to be the piece of shit that's i'm telling you right he doesn't even have any victims. He figured it out. Figured it out. But, yeah, I guess Dale at this point is like, he's an ex-con.

He's this, he's that. Well, so are you. Right. What did you go to jail for? Fucking manslaughter? At least he just stole a condo and set it on fire. Just keep your checkbook away from him. set it on fire just keep your checkbook away from him um dickie tunkel said the judge based his decision partly on evidence that dale and desi were caught this is the reason why driving

i can't make the jimmy okay it's bad enough he he married his sounds i swear to god this is real first of all before i say this because people are gonna go okay he married his stepmother his daddy brother this is not real once i say this they were caught driving 100 miles an hour on the wrong side of the highway driving what the wrong way 100 miles an hour on the highway with erica in the back seat no fucking way what the fuck is going on not just a hundred with the kid in the car the wrong fucking direction on a one-way highway more endangerment has never been done it's impossible to endanger a child more than that this is the russian roulette of driving is what that is yeah that's fucking crazy why were they doing that dale i mean why is anybody doing anything in this story that would be a whole other holy shit we'd need to both become psychology it would take 10 years of schooling for either of us to figure this

out we're both too dumb for this at three in the morning like was it was it just a no traffic time or what that's even worse because then why the hell is the kid right why is the kid even awake the whole thing's a mess oh my god excuse for what's happening here this is crazy they said that as well as dale's criminal history that kept desi away from custody of Erica. Wow. So now she's, this is crazy. So now the custody order was just a temporary one until the dust settles. Dale said this devastated Desi, devastated her. She was just brutally sad. Well, she's got to be devastated because she chose this path.

She chose him, and he's the only reason she can't have her kid yeah i'm sure without him she she wins who do you think was driving 100 miles an hour off the wrong side of the drive you think it was her i bet it was him something tells me he's like that's all right but every every strike against her that's sending that it's all him yeah it's all him that's what i mean he was the one driving the car but it doesn't matter at that point if they're all in it together he told her to hang in there and he said he told her that the judge would see the truth sooner or later yes and take this kid away from all of you and put it in social services that's what the judge should do if i yeah this is all a mess nobody gets this child i'm sorry holy shit hang in there it's not a fucking

it's not an appendix her life is in shambles just hang in there um but dale is not doing so well himself yeah december 9th 1997 it all comes to a head here okay dale starts the day out by drinking yeah five fifths almost yeah a bottle of wine yeah four beers and he's like this is for amateurs fuck this he then drinks three bottles of vodka three fifths of vodka he's had a hole that's yeah Four beers and a bottle of wine, that's equivalent of a fifth. I would assume so. The alcohol content's different. Shot by shot, but not shot to a glass. Volume is

certainly more. Yeah, because it's glass of wine to shot of vodka, so that would be an ounce of vodka. So it's only four shots. Yeah, a shot is an ounce. It's a lot. Four glasses of wine, four beers, and then three bottles of vodka. Jesus. At what point do you fall down and not get back up?

Yeah, that's a lot. Like, you know, I couldn't drink that much physically. No. I couldn't get it in me. The amount alone, how does your stomach stretch to accommodate? It's insane. He's hanging out drinking with his nephew. This is Dale's nephew and roger's grandson so i assume it's one of roger's daughter's kids gotta be i think okay yeah so this is david

andrew parson know what he goes by drew drew exactly does. That's what he goes by. No male in this story goes by their first name. I was going to go with Andy, but no, it's Drew. Drew. So Drew, by the way, at this time, again, making it a wonderful environment for a little girl, is living with, he's 16 years old. Yeah. He's 16 years old, and he's living with Dale and Desi in what is described as a, quote, dilapidated trailer on U.S. Highway 76. His address is U.S. Highway 76. U.S. Highway 76. Dilapidated trailer.

U.S. Highway 76. You'll find it. Don't worry. You can send postcards with that address. Oh, my God. So he he's 16 and he's hanging out that night because he lives there they're hanging out dale and drew are hanging out drinking vodka that night drew's drinking vodka too good lord um then dale and drew played what is described as a knife-throwing game. This man has had three bottles of vodka, and he's throwing knives.

Let's get a little girl in here. You know who should live here? A seven-year-old. I miss my daughter so bad. Jesus Christ. Which is worse? I just want social services to take this kid. There is not a good household around three bottles of vodka no matter it's a game or not they're throwing knives

and he's doing this with with an intent and purpose to win like what the fuck is the game that's crazy so dale they're they're doing this in the living room by the way yeah a knife throwing game it's a dilapidated trailer there's not a lot there that matters if it gets stabbed doesn't Dale, they're doing this in the living room, by the way. Yeah. A knife-throwing game indoors. It's a dilapidated trailer. There's not a lot there that matters if it gets stabbed. Doesn't matter. Puncture it. Who cares?

Dale takes a break because he needs to throw up. Doesn't go to the bathroom. He just walks out on the porch and throws up off the end of the front porch, which is all class. God. That's all class right there. You want everyone to witness your puke. Class. Then he came inside wiping his mouth,

and he said that, quote, I got to go hurt somebody and hurt them bad. Now? Now, after he's thrown up. Jesus. The throwing up gave him a revelation of he needs to go hurt somebody and hurt him bad wow so they took highway 76 which stretches from the south carolina border and by sec and bisects from clayton there yeah and i brought the 16 year old with them come on

with me buddy let's go what is. What is this? The fucking town? Yeah, that's we're going. I got to hurt people. You can't ask our win. What car we drive? Is that what they did? You're less drunk than me. Who's lawnmower?

We drive. You're less drunk than me. Who's tractor? We steal. What the shit? Who's red Honda? We going to steal. So they get in here, Dale and Drew, riding in Dale's blue Ford Probe.

He's got a Probe. He's got a Probe, which wasn't bad back in the 90s. It's a Bob Glidden car, babe. That's a damn fine car. I had a friend that had one of those. It was fucking cool. I was jealous. They're fast.

It's way nicer than my car. They looked fast. Yeah, they were pointy and sleek looking. Had that stretch wing. Yeah. car yeah they looked fast they look yeah they were pointy and like sleek looking had that like stretch wing yeah yeah had that like testarossa grooves in the wing they were badass those were it slanted forward like this and then it did 45 real fucking quick it was 138 horsepower well never mind nice car nice looking car you got there. Real smooth. So they're driving the probe.

They drove through the town and arrived at Rogers Place on Leatherwood Lane. Yeah. Okay. Now, I guess there's a steep short road that leads to Rogers Gravel Driveway, of course. short road that leads to rogers gravel driveway of course they parked the probe between a tin roofed barn and a uh a two coop farm building i never want to live anywhere with both of those things on it park between the tin roof and the and the two. That sounds horrifying. It sounds like someone's going to have a brother daddy. It's what it sounds like.

It sounds like it's dark during the day there. That's possible. That's, wow. So, during the day. This was at 5 a.m. They've been drinking all night. This is when they show up. Oh, my God. Okay. day this was at 5 a.m they've been drinking all night this is when they show oh my god okay now

what happens from here drew ends up giving three different versions so we'll give you the one that will give you kind of the most evidence and where he might be lying okay um okay wow um he says drew says that dale had two knives when he heads up his father's driveway. Yeah, he's seen Tim Stone. Yeah, they parked there. He has two knives. They're heading up the gravel driveway. Parsons ran after him here.

Parsons to Dale, Drew. He said he tried to keep Dale from going inside. Please, Dale, it ain't worth it. Right. Dale, though, yanked open the trailer's front door oh boy i'm going in at this point erica who lives here the seven-year-old is awoken by the commotion in the mobile home fantastic a door being pulled open in the trailer is going to rock the whole trailer you're gonna hear it throughout so drew would later say quote and then

little erica come running out her room come running out yeah and i run in and grabbed her and i told her to go back to her room okay okay so he kind of stood by erica's room's door and told her to stay in there yeah okay that's what happened he doesn't know that he just admitted to kidnapping but that's a that's a problem that's telling telling someone yeah in the commission of a crime telling someone where to be is kidnapping that you can't do any of that yeah you gotta let people go where they want or else it's it's a problem so he says drew says he then heard roger say from the next bedroom because you can hear everything that goes on in the trailer he said quote son i forgive you for what you're doing

i forgive you for it he remembers kathy the wife saying dear lord jesus help us screaming out yeah dale then told his father that he's going to die. He said he's going to kill him. He tells Dale, he tells Roger, I'm going to kill you. And he asked him, quote, do you want to be cut or shot? That's what he remembers him saying. Dale asked his dad, gives him a choice. So Erica, during this this she heard her father or he she heard roger reading

bible verses at this time yeah i guess while dale paces around and and he was also screaming to call the police somebody call the police he's yelling she and this is like a rural trailer too there's no one around this isn't like in a park. This is on its own stretch of land. He's talking to the occupants. Yeah. Anybody there that can do it. Yeah. She then heard Dale ask Roger whether he, quote, wanted to die with a pistol or be chopped up.

Oh, boy. Okay. And then asked Kathy whether she wanted to live or die. Erica's hearing this at 7. Through the trailer wall at 5 in the morning. Dad's going to die. You're going to die. It's just how you want to have it done to you.

But Kathy, do you want to live or die, he says. So Kathy said that she wanted to live to raise Erica. So yeah, want to live to raise Erica. That's so, yeah, I want to live to raise Erica. When Dale responded that, you said the wrong thing. Yeah, of course. Why would you say that? That's the worst thing you could say. I'm obviously here for her.

Yes, I'd like to live to go far away from here and never see any of you ever again is the best way to say it. She said, I i'm gonna take the daughter from you that you're gonna kill people for right now over yeah i'm gonna do that so then drew said he thought he heard dale quote john 316 uh-huh but he ended it with because stone cold said so which was very weird unexpected it was 1997 he might have ended it with that he said talk about your john 316 how about dale 316 says i just stabbed my daddy oh jesus holy shit uh which she heard or Drew heard him say, for God loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. And then he killed his father, apparently, here.

So he starts attacking his father with a knife. Oh, my God. Well, he has two knives, so he's attacking with two knives yeah he kills his father roger sustains 23 stab wounds jesus god absolutely just savaged him horrific 23 horrific hard anger a lifetime of anger sore butthole 23 is a different kind of 23 including a wound to the scalp right stabbed him in the head a stab wound through the ear yeah into his head cutting wounds across the back and left side of the neck as well like slashing at his throat defensive wounds to the hands a large slash in the front of the neck.

He cut his throat. He stabbed him 20 times and then cut his throat as well. Because he said, which had transected the left carotid artery and jugular vein. And that was enough. That's it. Yeah. Stab, stab, stab, cut his throat. Oh, Kathy's there too.

Yep. And she just said the wrong thing. The wrong thing, quote thing quote unquote oh boy she sustains 18 stab wounds kathy does 18 it's just as angry at her what she just got there including bruising to the forehead from being hit he was beating this woman she never even raped you man that's what she has She just came around. She probably doesn't even know that happened. I doubt Roger sat her down and went, now, I shot my wife.

I killed a man. I raped my son. I did this. I doubt he went through his litany of horrible things he's ever done. It's true, though. Once you go through a legal process with people, you tend to just resent the shit out of them. Like before I started going through legal shit with my ex-wife,

I never hated her more. You did. You really did. Like today, I miserably loathe her now. It's because I've been through so much legal shit. It there's a lot it's

brutal man it changes your opinion of people yeah yeah think about lawsuits between people who are business together companies they want to fucking they all hated they're i can't i'm so glad we don't have to do with any with that no that's really helpful. No therapy, no legal shit. It's real goddamn easy. We go 50-50. This is fun, right? Yeah, it is cool. And then we do this shit. You smile, I smile.

Let's go home. Yeah, isn't this fantastic? Isn't this so much better than a real job? Yes, it is. Excellent. That's because we both had real jobs. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of them.

And been through enough. Nobody should be successful prior to being 40 years old you should have to be 40 to be successful even if you're making it they keep it like an escrow for you so you turn 40 you don't get it until till you know how hard this fucking world is you could like it sucks right isn't everything shit okay now have it a little easier okay you needed to know how bad it was though so you can be paranoid delusion yeah you need you need to know what it's like to to sweat uh the first of the month oh yeah oh jesus it's all gonna come out it's not good

shit i have nothing left oh god i have nothing it's been there plenty. So 18 stab wounds bruising to the forehead, a stab wound in the cheek, stabbed her in the face. Oh, come on, man. Two stab wounds to the chin, a defensive stab wound to the arm. Her neck had been fatally slashed and stabbed on the front and side, severing her windpipe, her right carotid artery and jugular vein. After she felt all of that. Oh, God damn it, man. That's just, yeah. Oh, Jesus, man.

You think he would try to dispatch of her quickly because that's not where the anger is. Yeah, because she's nothing to him, and all she is is somebody that stands in the way of him and his child. But because she said that, he took it out on her. Yeah, apparently he saw them as one unit one one person to be destroyed yeah so it's at this point uh once they leave and everything erica will end up in the uh custody of the county department of family and children services they will not give her back to the mom here after all this so and she has the the state is now saddling saddled and and shouldering uh so much therapy for this kid she is gonna be so fucked up for so long seven i mean that's just

man that's the the beginning of everything that's your brain is just starting to absorb the world her brain is still silly putty and a spongy silly putty that you can shape into anything and it's with an echo of terrible for of you said the wrong thing you said the wrong thing my god so they said the police will later on say the front door of the trailer was forced open and they entered the mobile home now dale later on will say he doesn't remember any of this. The last thing he recalled was, quote, puking on the porch in his own trailer. Oh, boy. After that, it's all good there.

Puking is the trigger. That's the trigger here. He also said that he will later on say, because right now he hasn't been caught or anything, but later on he'll say that he remembered his father making the sound that dying people make. Yeah. And that, yeah. And that Kathy's blood got on him when he quote, got down on her to try to pump air into her. Why are you pumping air? And you just slit her throat.

That's not a, I i'm not gonna save her now that's crazy um it's nuts that he knows what dead people sound like that's frightening yeah that's the other thing that sound that dead people make when they're dying i was like who knows that he doesn't know death rattle he because he's never seen that written he knows what they sound like because he's seen what heard what they sound like he's heard it yeah that's what i'm saying look christ he was in the fucking house when when his father shot that guy i mean he's heard it before so wow um he also said later on that he was pretty sure erica must have heard him yell because he quote flipped out when he saw all the blood now this is he does all this hacking and cutting and everything like that as he's standing there out of breath knives in hand covered in blood at 5 50 a.m the alarm

clock goes off in the bedroom imagine how high he jumped when that happened i do it in hotel rooms when i'm awake before and i'm starting to pack and everything then my alarm goes off oh my god yeah imagine you just murdered someone you're covered in blood the quiet that comes after a murder must be very silent and then just jesus christ start stabbing it oh fuck man Jesus Christ. Start stabbing it. Oh, fuck, man. Sonny Bono song.

Yeah. I got you, babe. Starting over and over again. It's going to be cold out there. It's going to be a cold one out there. So by then they're dead, Kathy and Roger. Now, afterwards, the dismount, let's see what he does oh boy dale then throws the 16 year old drew the keys to the probe and says take my car and quote take erica to her mama okay now you're kidnapping again this is very much kidnapping now that's two counts yeah you're

taking her to someone who she's not's two counts yeah you're taking her to someone who she's not supposed to be around you're not supposed to be you're also weren't supposed to kill people so i guess the in the triage of crime this is way down the list if we're counting uh drew as another person he's kidnapping again making drew go somewhere but yeah drew's an accomplice he's in this he's in it to win it, Drew. He's part of this. He's helping. He's earning. Yeah, he's earning. He's an earner. So the sun's starting to come up.

So in a little bit, they know it's going to come up. So he told Drew to move fast. Let's go. Someone's going to discover these bodies pretty soon. The alarm just went off. So he's supposed to be somewhere. So we got to get out of here. He's definitely supposed to be. Someone's expecting to be somewhere. Exactly. So we got to get out of here. He's definitely supposed to be.

Someone's expecting him. Yeah. Dale takes off. His first stop is at his mother's house. Yeah. His own mother's house now. Okay. Fay, which is a few miles down the road from his own house on Highway 76.

Okay. He was crying when he showed up. Covered in blood. Blood and tears. Yeah, and drunk. And drunk, very drunk. And he told his mother that Roger had driven him crazy and made his life a living hell. That's true.

And Faye's like, oh, I mean, join the club, sweetheart. Yeah. I mean, Jesus. He tried to kill me several times. Ain't we all been there? I still got a scar from a ketchup bottle, you know? So then he said. To this day, I eat Heinz just because I won't touch that hunts.

I won't go near that hunts. Boy, I still got an imprint of the label on me, and I don't want it anymore. He said that, oh, and the other thing, I think I killed Roger and Kathy. Yeah, you've got more blood on you than inside you. What is happening? Well, she said, yeah, he had blood in his hair, on his gloves, and he was driving Roger's car. So he's like, I figured something was amiss. Covered in blood driving your father's car didn't seem like probably I thought something was wrong.

I thought something was wrong. So after he left, Dale takes off. So Faye picks up the phone and calls ahead to Dale's trailer here. Yeah. Where Parson answers the phone. Drew. Okay. He answers the phone back at the ranch there.

And Drew said, quote, Grandma, because this is his grandma as well right grandma said the state of mind he's in he'd kill every one of us and wouldn't think twice about it so get the fuck out of there basically yeah run yeah skedaddle away so dale stopped at his trailer for a minute and talks to drew and then they take off heading towards South Carolina on 76. He took Drew with him. Well, Drew followed him in the probe. Okay. While he drives Roger's Monte Carlo. Now he got a caravan.

Yeah. Now we got a caravan. Yeah. Just before the bridge over the Chatooga River, Dale threw a bloody knife into the woods at that point. So he's looking for that. Then he and Drew drove to South Carolina and then back to Georgia for some reason. Okay. Just to get some driving time in.

Alone time. Really clear ahead. Yeah, you know how that is. Also, with a stolen car, you want to be seen with it as much as possible. Yeah, two separate vehicles. Let's go riding. Wow. So Dale ends up taking the Monte Carlo, Rogers Monte Carlo, down a bloody road, a muddy road.

Down a muddy road, they get out of the car, he goes into the back, they pull out a five-gallon thing of gas, douse the Monte Carlo in gas, and light it on fire. Everybody's just got gas in their trunk. Everyone's got gas in their trunk, and his solution to getting rid of a car is just burn it always. He could have just left it. He could have driven it back to their house, left it there, had dude take him in the probe, and that would have been that.

Instead, no. So they then took the probe back toward Clayton, stopping at a friend's trailer just south of town. This is the time to socialize? Yeah. I'm getting rid of a car. I just torched my murdered father's car. I got to go see Tommy. I kidnapped my sister daughter. I got a lot of a car. I just torched my murdered father's car. I gotta go see Tommy. I kidnapped my sister daughter.

I got a lot going on here. I'm gonna stop and hang out. The friend was a woman named Tamara By. B-Y-E. That was close. Tamara? Yeah, Tamara. Tamara By.

Tamara agreed to drive them back to Dale's place so Dale could check to see if Desi and Erica were still there. And if quote, the law was after him and drew, they're going to be. Yeah. Eventually I would say so. So on the way there, Dale said, hold on, pull over. Wait, wait, before we get there, pull over. And then he climbed into the trunk.

I'll climb in the trunk in case the law is there. That way they won't see me. They'll never look in the trunk. They'll never look in the trunk. So he rides the rest of the way in the trunk, this fucking idiot. So they pull into the driveway of the trailer. Yeah. And Drew runs inside and discovers that Desi and Erica had left.

Okay. Okay. Now, while they're sitting in the driveway, deputies pull up next to the car in the driveway. Hi. Talks to them. Now, he's still in the trunk. Yeah. But they talk to them, and then they walk up on the porch, and Drew has no idea they're there. Drew walks out of the front porch and walks into the path of two deputies who are standing there.

Hi, Drew. Awesome. Want to go ahead and put your hands behind your back there? Yeah. Yeah. They told Drew, you need to come with us to the sheriff's office. And they ordered Tamara by to follow that. Follow us in your car.

Okay. Which is a very strange police procedure I've never heard before. follow us in your car okay which is a very strange police procedure i've never heard before follow us in your car what the hell is that is she not is she not part of the investigation what are they are they going to question her they don't know if she's driving one of the participants i would say at that point i'm curious you know at gunpoint like are they gonna are they gonna hold a shotgun on her while she drives off one of them's gonna hang out the window pointing it back at her

keep driving so they said do that so Dale's still in the probe he's still in the trunk of the probe this is this could be the worst way he dies imagine hearing the cop radio's going

on you're gonna come with us and he's like oh shit damn it he's in the trunk just giggling at the same time he's lucky he's in the trunk or else they would have fucking coughed up already so by the way why didn't they say we're going to the sheriff's office we'll follow you we'll follow you yeah that way you'll be in between the two cars maybe and also we have a tow truck on its way for that no you follow us there which they don't know if there's evidence in there that's terrible police work like yeah yeah she could be wiping down the interior while she's riding sneezing on things who knows spraying bleach all over in there yes stop contaminating our evidence at this point instead y'all drive that

behind us so yeah she parked in the sheriff's lot and investigators brought her and drew into jail into the or not into jail into the station for interrogation and questioning yeah they take drew to juvenile jail because he's 16 because he's 16 this is over the course of multiple hours by the way jimmy wow they take him to jail they release tamra because they just found she was just said oh the kid came to my house and i gave him a ride he just said can you give me a ride to here i said sure i gave him a ride all right she leaves gets in the probe takes off with dale still in the trunk the whole fucking time he was in the trunk in the police station parking lot for hours while they were in there interrogating oh he's got blood all over him holy show he's

covered in blood back there just in the back of the trunk he's got a piss so bad yeah oh he's pissed all over something in the gasoline container well yeah he's pissed where the where the spare tire goes there's a puddle times yeah there's a puddle beneath the that spare tire is floating holy shit so she gets in the car drives away and takes him away from the police station wow so they find out from drew kind of what happened the police arrive at the crime scene they find blood stains by the front right by the front door. Oh, God. And they also find that the phone lines to the trailer had been cut. Oh, no. They cut the phone lines before they went in there.

Can't call police. Can't call 911. Yep. They went down to the bedroom and found both victims here, Roger and Kathy, in the bedroom. They said the whole bedroom was covered in blood. It was a horror scene. Yeah, you can't do what they did with that. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I don't know if they- 41 stab wounds altogether, including throat cuttings. Two slashings. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. What do we got, seven pints of blood in us? Eight or something like that? It's not a lot, right?

They're all over the fucking room. Maybe nine? All of them are there. Maybe nine, ten? What do we got, three, four gallons in there? I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea either.

I'm not making fun. I don't know either. Yeah. You can only give one and you can only do that every six months or something. So you got to have enough in there. Nine seems like a lot. You're not giving like a third of your blood away probably. 10% seems like enough.

10% seems fair. Yeah. That seems high too. Yeah. It's a it's a cut you know what i mean yeah but i give an agent or a man yeah enough for me to survive and for you to wet your beak if you'd have lunch but if you cut the phone lines to anything in the commission of a crime that should be an aggravator because that tells me you're up to no good and you don't want the police there. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly.

You already know what you're doing is bad. Premeditated. Yes. Like a motherfucker. Absolutely. I don't want you to be able to call for help. That's not – I didn't go there to have a chat with them. Right.

That's worse than taking somebody's like in an argument of domestic violence taking their phone from them yeah i feel like cutting the phone lines to a building is that way in yeah that's what btk did that's right everybody in fucking wichita for like five years right go in their house single women would go in their house and pick up the phone first to make sure they had a dial tone because they all knew that if it's cut remember the run one of the btk situations a woman came home and her line was dead she called the cops they had brought in the crime scene people shut down her whole fucking neighborhood and it turns out that they had been working the next block on phone lines and just cut it by accident it was just a phone phone company issue but i mean it took a lot of manpower to figure that out.

So they also find atop Roger's chest. He's laying there. And this was placed afterwards, they figure, because it's not as bloody. A pocket knife is across his chest. And a silver cross is placed on his chest as well. Oh. So there's some weird religious guilt thing. I'm going to read you a Bible verse and kill you and put a cross on you i don't get it later in the in the morning the police find the monte carlo abandoned and burned in the woods um near takoa again takoa as we said i don't know

right um so they're like where the fuck's dale yeah we know. Right. So they're like, where the fuck's Dale? Yeah, we should probably find him. So they're looking for him. They said, you know, he's in his 30s. Kind of, you know, love to have a chit chat with this guy. The sheriff's department dispatcher said the sheriff was signing warrants on a suspect in the case. And, you know, it's Dale. So they said, quote, Roger Dale Hayes is Mr mr hayes's son kathy is a stepmother they're looking for him i don't know at this point what the motive was was whether it

was domestic or not uh but they said that you know they do have a kid and there's teens that they've also taken in and yeah they didn't want to release any details at first because they wanted to keep that for to see if people are telling the truth when they confess to things. So the bodies are removed from the home and sent to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for autopsies in Atlanta. And they said they were, you know, they have forensic processing equipment and all that kind of shit. forensic processing equipment and all that kind of shit. The they said the home sits about two and a half miles from outside of Clayton on Leatherwood Lane, which runs off Georgia 76 West. So if you want to look up where that is, everybody, you can see exactly where that is.

So the coroner said that, quote, the killing was rare for these parts of Georgia. OK, not the murder itself, but the parts of Georgia. Okay. Not the murder itself, but the actual, the way it happened. He said, we don't have this type of case very much. We have our share of violence, but not like this. We just hit people with ketchup bottles. Shoot at your wife's boyfriend. You know how it goes.

Wing a woman from time to time, but also kill her new suitor yeah yeah so they said he was last seen driving a 1990 ford probe with a georgia dealer's tag so that's how it's going he is still being sought they're calling it a custody a child custody dispute as the motive now what what they think, involving, quote, unusual family relationships, I would say. Yeah. They said there's a death of a man and his wife in their secluded mobile home in the mountains. So they're looking for him.

At this moment, they said the daughter's been placed in custody of the county and they've arrested a 16 year old boy. And they said there's been a custody battle between them for a while. We also think there's been a history, a long term animosity that goes way back farther than that. OK, so now Drew here, like we said, they have him in custody. They sent him to juvenile. he'll he'll get charged but he's gonna talk a lot as well yeah because he's 16 once he's in jail he broke down and told the deputies that he was in the trunk the whole time they were like when when you were questioning us he was in the trunk of the probe and and they're like, motherfucker. Yeah. So the deputies then go to Tamara Bai's house to look for him because that's who she was with.

She was in the car, yeah. But Dale was there and saw them coming. He was so paranoid. He's always looking out the window. He saw them coming and broke ass out through the back and escaped through the woods. They again brought in the bloodhounds. They couldn't find him again. Couldn't pick up his scent.

They're not good bloodhounds. Whatever he smells like, bloodhounds don't like it. They just don't even smell it. Can't pick it up. So, yeah, they couldn't catch his scent. That's fucking crazy. He took off through the woods. So they're like, God damn it.

The next day, the sheriff and a GBI agent showed up at Dale's mother's house, Faye's house. Okay. She had left the night before to stay in a hotel because things were crazy. Yeah. When they got there, they found him in his mother's house. Oh? He was in a guest room hiding behind a bed between the bed and the wall. Genius. They found him just like how do you

get in there he's a good hider he's really he's he's he's real slick as the sheriff said he's good at escaping and hiding places i'll tell you that much right he's better than bin laden jesus christ really good so he was cowering in the guest bedroom between not even in like a one of the normal no guest bedroom they find him there between in one of the normal bedrooms. No. Guest bedroom. They find him there. Between the headboard and the wall. That's it. Yeah.

That's where he was. Wow. Crammed in there. They said, well, what happened that night? And he said that, I got drunk and I don't remember what happened, but I'm also not sad that Roger's dead at the same time. Oh, boy. That's not a good statement.

Not sad my dad's dead. Yeah. Don't know if I did it. So, let's go over the same time. Oh, boy. That's not a good statement. Not sad my dad's dead. Yeah. Don't know if I did it. So, let's go over the evidence again. Burned out Monte Carlo by the roadside. Also, a black handled knife found on the roadside at the exact location and description of the knife that Drew Parsons told them to look. The DNA of both victims on that knife.

Oh, boy. The knife lying on Roger's body was also analyzed and found to contain the victim's DNA. Obviously, it's on top of him. They also said that there's another guy in this mix as well. Sagner is his name.

And he said he was drinking with Dale and Drew earlier in the evening before all this took place that night, the murders. They took turns playing with knives, throwing them to see if they would stick in the wall. That's the game. Yeah, this is the house that they didn't want a seven-year-old to live in, and I see why. That's the game.

They did this till five in the morning. Jesus. And yeah, they said Drew drove Sagner and drew or i'm sorry dale drove sagner and drew to the victim's mobile home and told them they were going to kill two people by cutting their throats because someone owed him money okay okay now sagner said he saw dale cut the line to the telephone line to the mobile home. He's just as culpable right now. Yeah, he didn't run away. So apparently he saw Hayes and Parsons holding knives as they stood outside the mobile.

He just stayed in the car. He was there the whole time. He just stayed in the car. Oh, my God. He said that while they went inside, he got back in the car. And nobody disputes that. So he wasn't in there. And then when he returned, when the two of them returned, he said Dale was bloody.

He he then says Dale brought a little girl to the car and respond. And Sagner asked Dale, did you do it? And he said yes. And he had a seven-year-old with him. Then he said Dale threatened to kill him if he told anybody. But he later told his father. And then his father encouraged him to call the police and tell them about it. So there was a third person in the mix this whole time that didn't come forward for a while.

And he only came forward probably because Drew told the cops about him. Drew told the cops he was there. What the fuck, man? So he said, yes, I wasn't. They don't charge that guy, though. Somehow. What? I don't know how.

Because he wasn't inside. I don't understand it. That guy's a piece of shit, too. Dude, everyone here is a scumbag. Everyone in this story, anyway. Not here in this town in the story. So while he's in jail now, Dale, he's transferred to the Stevens County Jail from Habersham County Jail because of discipline problems. Dale's a problem in jail. Is he?

Weird, right? They said he was a model prisoner until he was transferred to this one jail. Then he had a ton of discipline problems, and now he's going to another jail. So he's going to be tried for murder times two, and the death penalty is on the table for him. Wow. Yes, they're definitely looking at the death penalty they want for him. Sure. So time goes by.

We get to 2001. So this is three and a half years after the murder. February 10th, 2001. It's one month before his death penalty trial will begin. Okay. Okay. Dale Hayes escapes from the Stevens County Jail. Oh, my God.

Yep. The jailers last saw him at 9 p.m. He said he was sick, and the guards took him to the shower, because that's where you go when you're sick. Take a shower? Take a shower. So then several guards heard a commotion in the rear of the jail and went to investigate, And upon their return to the shower, he's just gone. Oh, boy. If he was slippery before, now he's got soap and water on him.

Now he's soaped up, boy. He's covered in dial and ready to slip right through a fence. He disappeared. Yeah. They're like checking the floor and the ceiling. Like, what? Did he, you know, escape through a secret passage? Is he hiding in the ground?

Yeah. Where is he? inside the that showerhead he can get real small so they believed well they believe they found out for sure that what he did was he stole a 1991 white chevy pickup truck upon his escape oh god from the jail property here the day after his escape his escape. Oh, God, yes. From the jail property here. The day after his escape, he's seen in Montgomery, Alabama. That seems far away. Real far. I guess someone sometime during his stay at the county jail told Dale that workers at the Tugalo Construction Company, who work on the jail, left their trucks unlocked with the keys inside on

the weekends the work trucks they just they're not going to get stolen from a jail they're fenced in yeah that's what they figure instead because the company too was within walking distance so it was easier than taking them back to the lot so right but the the fences aren't up to keep people out man what are you talking about exactly they can't keep people in out anywhere so dale once he heard that he started making a plan for an escape around this time desi files for divorce already from him yeah and these proceedings she says are only to help her get to have better chance of getting custody of erica she can't be married to a guy who is up for murdering two

people in front of her that's probably bad so and the two people that they're in a custodial conflict with exactly exactly so what they find is they go into dale's room room his fucking cell cell's room they go into his suite they sent him to his room to To your room, Dale. And on his bunk bed, they find a 36-page letter that he wrote. 36 pages? 36. We're obviously not going to read 36 pages of a letter, but I'll read you some highlights. Oh, boy. You know it's going to be good when it's addressed to the citizens of the United States of America.

Oh, that's what it's addressed to. That's a manifesto, my friend. That's what that's called. That's everything. He said, I've had a really hard slash rough life. My childhood was a nightmare in itself. Well, you may be wondering, why are you telling me this? Are you guilty?

That's what I want to know. OK, we will get to that part. Oh, dear God. That's a shot at your mom, then. Yeah, what are you doing, man? Jesus, at least my whore of a mother told me that you may be thinking at this point oh my god he killed his own dad well to me it's like this it's not so much as bad as it it's not so much that it's as bad as it sounds that's what he says he's a terrible writer i feel a peace within my heart knowing that he will never put another what he put me through. Put, I guess, through. He just forgot that word.

What he put me through. That he'll never put another woman through the emotional and physical abuse that my mom suffered and many other women he also done that way. Yeah. Done that way yeah done that way it's almost like if you uh work hard and put your children through good education they don't end up murdering you and then writing fucking letters with terrible english in them yeah he said i've made plenty of wrong choices and had to pay for them i learned how to steal cars about all kinds of things that only made my life worse with the choices i made it's like this i always tried to put my past behind me to have a life of my own but roger hayes never stopped pushing me right up to the week before this happened.

He blames his dad for everything. Blames him. Left a letter that said, yes, I did this, obviously. It's all his fault. Have a good one, everybody, because I'm gone and you'll never see me again. So the manhunt begins, obviously. He's on America's Most Wanted. He's a very dangerous man. I mean, he's a double murderer who's up for a death penalty trial

here. His first crime was stealing cars, and then it got way worse. It's just everything in between. Everything. So they said he's considered dangerous, but they don't know whether he's armed. They say that the sheriffs called him, quote, very unpredictable.

I would say. They said it's not out of the realm of possibility that he would end up back here. Even if he was seen in Alabama, he might circle back. He's probably trying to fool us. He's hiding in the bushes. Did anyone check the bushes? Has anyone looked at the bushes right in front of the jail? Anybody looked under the warden's bed, that's probably where he is because who would look there?

Maybe in his trunk. Who knows? So he said the victims were notified. Victims' families were notified of the escape, and the department has made arrangements for their safety. They said the FBI is also involved in the search now. Yeah, of course. They said they're going to keep looking. They're trying to find any kind of lead.

There you go. Oh, Parsons, by the way, was convicted of kidnapping. Drew was exactly what it was. Yeah. Kidnapping. Um, so they said they see him in Alabama. They said that it was confirmed that he escaped there and he was seen Northwest of Montgomery about 2 PM the day after the escape.

Wow. He hauled ass. He drove then so he ends up driving the tugalo construction company pickup truck from the jail to montgomery alabama where a friend of his lived okay then he heads north to chicago what he's gonna drive to chicago a murderer made it from georgia to alabama to fucking illinois to illinois okay driving this truck by the way still the stolen tug of war construction truck it's got a fucking it's got a sign on the side of it literally but you know what that those those are the most inconspicuous even when they're white with the tools. Right. Nobody gives a fuck about those trucks.

A cop pulls him over in Illinois. Really? He is pulled over in a stolen truck. Yeah. Obviously, his name is going to come back for wanted for double murder. The cop pulls him over, asks for his license and registration as he is about to say something the cop gets a call on his radio and says never mind you go on your way be safe out there i there's a robbery he's called away to an active robbery it's your lucky day are you kidding me holy shit is this guy lucky

i've never had that i've been pulled over so many times. It's crazy. You see it once in a while on TV and you're like, oh, you lucky son of a bitch. So, the company truck is believed to be the vehicle used. It is found in a small town outside of Chicago called Batavia. That's where they find it. They find the truck abandoned

in a restaurant parking lot where witnesses said it had been sitting since February 15th. This is on February 20th. Okay, said it had been sitting since february 15th this is on february 20th okay so it's been there a fucking week yeah and he's been gone for 10 days so far wow so the keys are still in the ignition and everything he's probably hoping someone else would steal it yeah it's out of his hands now well it's probably just out of gas that too the he was featured on america's most wanted that week, and they got a dozen calls after the show aired, but none of them led to his arrest, obviously, here. So, holy shit.

He escaped from the jail. Here he is. The sightings of the truck were reported all over the place now. Batavia is 25,000 people, 45 minutes west of Chicago. minutes west of chicago the police believe he became acquainted with some people at a local bar using the name david lamar williams and was taken to a bus station later in the week they were all impressed with his amount of vodka in wow yeah shit even for the midwest you drink a lot wow um the release said the truck had been pulled over earlier. Like we said, that's fucking amazing. So the authorities asked for help in finding him.

Please help us. Yeah. He's escaped from jail. He's five 11 weighs 160 pounds, blue eyes, light brown hair, tattoos on both arms considered dangerous. And, um, the truck had Tugalo and a lot of fun and probably with vodka on his breath. Yeah. The Tugalo construction company truck had it that printed on both doors, by the way.

Not even just one. Both sides. Wow. So, Monday, February 19th, the Detective Support Division Fugitive Warrant Section of the Los Angeles Police Department, California. LAPD. Receives a request from the Rabun County Sheriff's Office to locate and arrest Roger Dale Hayes because they think he is in California. He made it to L.A.

So, well, we don't know that yet. At about midnight, right at the cusp here, detectives establish surveillance on the Frontier Hotel, which is in Skid Row, 111 West 5th Street in Los Angeles. Yikes. Not a good area. Yeah. Based on the information made from investigations, at 7.20, detectives with the assistance of Central Patrol officers take Hayes into custody without incident. They got him in L.A. They got him in L.A., yep. He had met a group of religious people in Batavia, actually.

Really? And told them about his crimes and his abusive father. He told them about it. Said, my father was abusive, I killed him, I'm on the run. So the group offered to help him turn himself into the police and promised to stand by him throughout the trial or travel with him as he fled. So we got your back. Whichever you want. Yeah.

Instead, he ditched them and took a bus to L.A. alone. Fuck you, people. He planned to blend in with homeless people on Skid Row was his plan. It's not hard to do. Go to L.A. No one looks at these people at all. And, yeah. But the fact that he said it was real violent.

He's from the fucking woods. He's not used to this. This is hardcore. This is real. This is some urban shit right here. So he said the homeless people the violence he said people lived in dumpsters and lived on the ground and it bothered him so he found a guy and made a deal with him to share his hotel room for seven dollars seven bucks seven dollar hotel

share here he moved into another room the next day and and then the day after that, the LAPD knocked on his door. Two days. Two days. He was there for two days. Yep. Found in California, arrested without incident. Wow. Appear in court.

The sheriff said, he's definitely coming back to Georgia. Well, no shit. He said it was great. He told the sheriff that he knew all along he'd be caught in return, not going to get away forever. It's not like I have $5 million cash or anything. He said he only wanted to have a taste of freedom just to enjoy freedom one last time. Just wanted to have one last run at it. Enjoy freedom in a city where they fight over chicken bones.

Are you kidding me? Wow. I'd rather be in jail. Chicken bones and fucking streaming deals. Same people will fight over both of those. You'll get stabbed with a filed down chicken bone over a streaming deal. Spots at the comedy store and chicken bones. The same people will fight over that.

Yes, they will. One after the other. He's returned from Georgia here to here uh to georgia they brought him back on a commercial flight he uh the sheriff was handcuffed to him in the back row of the plane which is awesome i always want to be on that plane yeah i never get that either yep the sheriff said he said the opportunity to escape presented himself so he took it wow he's real matter of fact about it. He sure is. He's still scheduled for trial.

You know, it's coming up here. And they said, why not? Pre-trial, his attorneys waived their client's right to a jury trial, opting for a judge to oversee it. Balls. Balls. But that's one of the worst it is, the less you want a jury to have a part of it. Yeah. Because they get shocked.

You want a guy that's seen this a lot. Yeah, you want a guy that's seen this a lot. You want someone who's not shocked by the violence. But you also can't fool the judge. True, yeah. That's the other thing. Twelve people are going to be shocked by one throat slit. This is two. This is two.

They're also going to be shocked by daddy sisters and all that shit too. Oh, the incest. Jesus. It's a lot. So this is Judge Ernest H. Woods III. He's going to hear the case. They said it's an unusual move for this type of thing. Defense attorneys obviously would rather dance before a jury

because you can snow them rather than a judge. They said, though, Dale's lawyers are concerned that there are not in existence 12 impartial jurors in this county. The county's only 14,000 people. Yeah. They all have heard of this. Yeah. They've been following it in the paper for a month.

That should be encouragement not to do something mad shocking. In a small town. No shit. You know what I mean? Yes. No shit. So the judge puts a gag order on everybody dickie tunkel here no or the the uh attorney for the dad said when you have a big murder in a small town i don't know if you're

able to pick a fair jury i think it will be difficult because so many people have heard about it read about it it was several years ago but i don't know it seems kind of unforgettable you think yeah we're talking about it now holy shit so um they said that uh um dale said wrote this by the way quote i feel like going in there and telling the da to sit down and shut up to listen to what i've got to say and by the time i'm through i'll probably convict myself yeah don't do that don't talk bad about me i'll do enough to myself he said i don't tell the da to shut up they're gonna hang you absolutely because he wants to be his own attorney are you kidding me and the da is trying to say he can't because obviously that's bad for the appeals process yeah he says though i want to tell him to shut up and just let me fuck it up and i'll convict myself in in evidence don't

show your fucking manifesto you're you're gonna go to jail dude no shit um god damn it he says i know i'll fight much harder and longer than anyone else would fight for me okay and he said quote if i could give my life this very second and bring Kathy back to life, I would. Said he felt bad about that. Not his father, though. He's not sorry at all his father's dead, but he said he wished he could not have killed Kathy.

That was wrong. Which is smart. By the way, they have a challenge to the death penalty thing here. I guess there's a change from electric chair to lethal injection. And there's a big kerfluffle over here where if anybody gets sentenced

before this kicks in in May 1st, are they going to get lethal injection or are they going to get electrocuted? So there's a fight over how they're going to kill him if they get to kill him. So there's that. It's a mess. So he does that. the trial comes up here and like i said death penalty on the table star witnesses drew obviously yeah yeah drew said

that he said he had to go hurt somebody and hurt them bad so they asked quote and did he say who he was going to hurt and drew said no sir they said did he say where he was going to go no sir he just went along with it drew did so at trial he testified they'd been drinking with chet sagner and hayes threatened drew so he went with him and and sagner in desi's blue ford probe to the mobile home they left sagner in the car he you He, you know, does the whole thing, covered in blood, told Erica to stay in the room, which he already had been convicted of and everything like that. He is found, but the judge takes 45 minutes during closing arguments,

after closing arguments, to decide his fate. And in 45 minutes, he finds him guilty as balls, I believe is the official term. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, So, two counts. He's also found guilty of one count of kidnapping, two counts of theft, and a count of burglary as well. Oh, my. So, they said the judge is here with all the charges combined.

He is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off life without parole really plus 41 years on top of that just in case you yeah plus another 41 life without life without and then stay here long has anybody ever gotten paroled with life without i don't think that's that's the definition of it is no. Plus 41. And we'll guarantee. You know what? We'd like to keep you a while longer. Just take a look at your bones. Yeah.

He's also sentenced to a consecutive 12 months in prison for theft by taking property of $500 or less. Okay. It's 20 years in prison for burglary to be served concurrently with the 12 months with the 12 month sentence 20 years in prison for kidnapping to be served consecutively with the burglary and 20 years in prison for theft by taking a motor vehicle which will be served consecutively to the sentence

of kidnapping so it's a fucking mess he also faces additional jail time for his escape and his cross continental jaunt to end up seeing the home of Richard Ramirez. So he appeals on the child hearsay statute. Oh, because the child heard it.

Yeah. He's unreliable. Unreliable. That little shit. They never remember anything. He's even though I remember everything from my childhood. I remember everything traumatic from my childhood. I remember nothing.

Dale remembers everything. Yeah. And he knows. Yeah. Yeah. So the Dale contends that the trial court committed reversible error by permitting Erica Hayes to testify because she had not seen and therefore not witnessed the events to which she testified. She heard them through a fucking wall. There's only three people there.

Who else could it have been? They said a statement made by a child under the age of 14 describing any act of sexual contact or physical abuse performed with or on the child by another or performed with or on another in the presence of the child is inadmissible evidence by the testimony of the person or persons who made if the child is available to testify in the proceedings and the court finds that the circumstances of the statement provide sufficient indicia of reliability. said Erica Hayes was a witness to the crimes through her sense of hearing rather than sight. Moreover, they said the child herself rather than a third party testified at trial. And they said, so it's not a hearsay of this is what the child told me, because sometimes they do that with very small children. They'll have a counselor say this is what they told me, or they do it in chambers a lot of the times now. They said that dale's convictions were

based on erica's testimony okay it can hardly be said that it was only her testimony anyway yeah even with that even if she would have killed if he would have killed her drew would have still told on him right he's a witness to everything it's so funny yeah uh they said also they erred in refusing to hold a hearing on the reliability and credibility of Erica's statements because it was like four years later. But she seemed to remember it pretty goddamn well. her what to say about her review of prior statements and interviews and about certain differences in her testimony and Drew's testimony. Things that they said, things like that. The court says affirmed.

Let's get the fuck out of here with that shit. So from what I can tell, I found him in the Georgia system here. He is in the Macon State Prison right now. He's in Macon. Macon, serving life without here. And if you look him up, you'll have a hard time. Make sure you're getting the right murdering Roger Dale Hayes because there is another one from Oklahoma

who I believe they're still trying to figure out if they've executed him or not. I'm not sure if they've executed him or not. He's been on death row since 1982 because he uh he murdered a nine-year-old girl and sexually mutilated her oh my god when he was 22 sexual mutilation and murder of a nine-year-old girl he's a fourth grade dropout with a mental age of 11 according to the court psychiatrist sweet jesus yes and he was out there raping and destroying

and murdering a small child and uh he was found guilty of of killing carrie kendall who was sexually mutilated found dead and all this type of shit so you're gonna look at that a lot um that's gonna come up an awful lot the convictions there but apparently don't name your kid roger dale hayes because bad shit will occur if you do so holy fuck man holy ballsack that everybody is clayton georgia what the devil certainly was hanging out in georgia there that is a wild one so holy shit if you like that story you're a sick fuck but you're also our kind of sick fuck so tell the world make sure to send out a signal to all the other sick fucks yeah by giving us a five stars on whatever app you're listening on also telling your friends post on social media spread the show it really really we can't tell you how much it helps

it's been great the last few months share button yeah that just means the world thank you so much for doing that it'll hook someone else's interest so thank you for doing that head to shut up and give me murder.com tickets for live shows december 2nd dallas but the virtual live show i'm so excited october 26th the halloween spectacular right we're gonna have costumes we're gonna have a creepy story it's's available not only on October 26th where you can all watch live, but it's available a whole week after that. You can buy it. You can watch it. You can watch it again. This is great.

A regular live show, pictures, us at the table making jokes, the whole thing, except wherever you want to be. No bathroom line, free booze, food, pajama pants. Get it on. So it's going to be, yeah, that's the other thing. One ticket buys you as many people as you want can watch it. We don't care. Have your own family over. I don't give a shit. And then watch it by yourself again later and have some fun with us.

But do it up. Yes. Enjoy it for real once they leave. That is shutupandgivememurder.com slash virtual live is where you get those tickets. And we're excited for that. where you get those tickets and uh we're excited for that so please get your tickets for that in addition definitely listen to your stupid opinions on a new podcast yeah where we talk about just dumb reviews from the internet and fuck is it fun it's a party we we hurt from laughing at the end of it so we we hope you hurt from laughing too

wherever you listen to podcasts also listen to crime and sports you definitely want patreon yeah patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all the bonus materials and there's tons of it you are going to get everything anybody five dollars a month or above a cup of coffee come on everybody a cup of coffee one cup of coffee or 200 plus bonus episodes to immediately binge on. And then two new ones every other week. You can't beat it. One crime in sports, one small town murder this week for crime and sports, which you'll get.

We're going to talk about Bishop Sycamore High, better known as BS High for good reason because it didn't really exist. The story is crazy. It's a very dangerous man putting a football program together for his own glorification. It's very weird, and the guy's scary. You might hear him on this show. We might hear of him on this show. Who knows? And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about something very crazy.

Joey Buttafuoco and Amy Fisher. Small Town in New York City. Long Island. It's in Long Island. Is it Long Island? It was a small town. Yeah, it was. What is that town?

That was awesome small town shit. Absolutely. If there was a murder, we would qualify. What would you call that town? What is it called? Is it Massapequa? No. I don't remember which one.

Was it Massapequa? It might have been. I don't remember. There's a ton of those towns on Long Island. We'll discuss it. We'll discuss all of that and more. And if you don't know who that is, his name is Joey Buttafuoco and he was banging a teenager. Is that enough info for you?

It should be. It's pretty awful. It's pretty amazing. Check that out. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. Also follow us on social media. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram, smalltownpod on Facebook, at Murder Small on Twitter. All that shit.

Keep following us. Keep catching up. And right now, though, I need to hear something nice. Oh, boy. I need to hear something great. I need to hear the names of the most wonderful people in the world who keep supporting us and are the best. Jimmy, hit me with them right now like a knife to the throat. This week's executive producers are Robin Heyer,

Kyle Norig, and his friends in D.C. They came to see the show in D.C. Carla White on her ranch. Thank you very much, Carla. Diana, I don't think I got a last name with that one. Larry Butterfast is getting married, James. Thanks for marrying our friend. Nice shit. Appreciate it, Carrie.

You're a good gal. It's going to be Carrie Butterfast. Larry and Carrie Butterfast? Larry and Carrie Butterfest? Get out of here. Larry and Carrie Butterfest. That's adorable. They rhyme. Unbelievable. Other producers this week are Sharon Jones, The Chic, not the Iron One, the other one.

A better one, I'm told. Detroit. Yeah. Peyton Meadows, Don Bagwell, Robin Kennard. My mom's fighting it as well, Robin. Hang in there. thinking of you. Eric Rodriguez, thanks. I got two Dos Equis at the airport.

You paid for a third of one because those fucking things. Airports, man, it's like. A little pricey on the Dos Equis. The booze, it's crazy. Janice Hill, Dewey Strange, Chelsea Morgan, Sarah Surge, Jacob Harshman, Joshua Filicicira, Bruce Howden, Denise Gwen, she's an author, Amanda Spellman, Cheyenne with no last name, Colleen with no last name, Julie, or Jewel, Jewel Morlag, Morlag, Jen with no last name, Michael Andrew Ulrich II, Krish Prashad Prasad, Josh Perry, Haley with no last name. Michael Andrew Ulrich II. Prashad Prasad. Josh Perry. Haley would know last name. Ben LaValle.

Jolene Arnold. Carl would know last name. Juliana Budaluku. Budaluku. Budaluko. Lucho, isn't he? Two Cs. Yeah.

Vids would know last name. Robin would know last name. Scott Fenley. Susan Makestad. Jessica Mumford and her sons. Brooke Kale. Carrie Stewart. Dara would no last name robin with no last name scott fenley susan susan makestad jessica mumford and her sons brooke kale carrie stewart dara with no last name jennifer low uh chris parton benjamin benjamin magee chelsea chelsea yeah benjamin i have another daughter i'm naming her benjamin it's a good name it's a good. I just invented a douche name for a girl.

Benjolin. That's adorable. Chelsea Renaud. Christy Smith. Lee with no last name. Elias Arion. Without the O. Arion.

Kevin Kenna. Chris with no last name. Brian with no last name. Jay Schwalbach. Schwalbach. Schwalbach Smith. Morgan Hancock. Matt Shenneman.

Dina Ward. Derek McFadden. Kelly Flores. Taewon. Taewon. Taewon. Alyssa Padilla. Ashley Atwood.

Cody Monk. Tiffany Freeland. Michaela Cecil. Cindy Chavera. Jeremy Payne. Jabur. Jabur Gill, Rachel Taylor, Amanda Niest,

Niesty maybe, Lisey Peel, Kara Crowley, Heather Brough, Danzema with no last name, Tressa with no last name, Evelyn Bradfield, Grace Oberhocker, Nicholas Loudon, Christy with no last name, Andrew Grange, Amy Johnson, Trick Riley.

Sepp Freck. Star Lord. All right. Jen Odd with no last name. Oh, that is her last name. Philip Watkins. Sky Quinn. Cunning Lindquist, James.

That is two different words claiming that is the first and the last name. That's not true. That's some word play. Megan Onyon. Taylor Moore. Shannon Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. Mussel. the first and the last name that's not true that's some word Megan on yawn Taylor Moore Shannon muscle muscle is Howard uh muscle muscle us Howard Jenna Jenna Pryle Praeli Jason Owens Omar Omari Omari Robin Pointer L Nickel Lost Packet Crystal Jones KJ Nick and Sarah Ludlow Jacob Browder Kill. Killian with no last name. Joel Chop, 54.

Why do they call him Bullet Dodger? Oh, because he dodges bullets, Tony. No, wait. Avi? Avi. Because he dodges bullets, Avi. Taco Papadopoulos. Tyson Johnson.

Matt with no last name. That's it. Yasmura. Yasmura. Yasmura. Bayonetta, 1807. Chris Sluss. Dakota Hess. Joseph Adams.

Ken Pfister. Kelsey. Kelsey with no last name. L. This show is brought to you by the letter L. Danielle Ziegler. B. White of the 52s. Davina Smith.

Ash Labiak. Kristen Taylor. Cornzilla. Eric Scanlon. Aaron Scanlon, Christopher Logan, Jamie Lennox, Adam Fox, Talisa Ermscher, Ali M., William Calloway, Danielle Kinghorn, Roseanne Dajnowski, Alexandra Plukas, Elise Anderson, Molly Burke, Destiny Plemons, Trash Panda Coot, Cassie Floyd, Elizabeth Bugman, Tirsa, Tirsa like a teardrop tattoo, Julie Mack, Crystal Powell, Katie Ives, Lynn McKinlay, Luanda Dunphy, Anna Benedikova, Malden. Logan Butcher. Jordan Chase. Jordan Chase.

Katie Wagner. Sam Richardson. Scott Hunt. Bill Saldowski. Evan Peace. Desmond Jones. Jessica Laura. Aram.

Aram Banania. Banania. Banania. Yeah. Chris with no last name. Kay Overbade. Rebecca Bellflower. Tim Ostertag. Latatia with no last name. Kay Overbade, Rebecca Bellflower. Tim Ostertag.

Latasha with no last name. Becky Copps. You knew him. You were friends with him, too. Susan Plorty, last responder. Sylvia Muller, Lisa Valentine, Courtney Morgan, Nilly Mittens, Adam Phillip, Ash Tone, Nakatikatea Tewari. Sounds like somewhere in Maine. Going up there for the weekend.

Lake Nacotecatea. Meltelechea. That's another one. Devin Donahue, Megan Tholen, Josh Custer, Nick Almond, Cynthia Shaw, Jeannie Kimbrell, Gavin Hart, Perry DeGualis. That's not right. Mauricio Castellazzo. That's not right.

Jay Satterfield, Sparrow427, Colton Carr, Kristen McCune, Aaron Wallen, Amanda Ratch, Brittany Jacobson, Erica Disque, Austin McWord, Michelle O'an, Joshan, Jockin, O'Meara, I don't know, Ben Mason. Where the hell are you right now? Lost you. Fucking dying. Tanya, Tanya Solomon, Michael, Chestnut, Cameron with no last name, Ty Shuler, Ale and Rome, Silky or Silk Dixon, I don't know, Blitzgrub, Thomason, Thomasonia Padezi, Juliana Lima DeSauza, Charlotte Burgesson, Burgess, just Burgess,

and all of our patrons. You guys are terrific. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so much. You goddamn awesome bastards. We hope that you're enjoying the Patreon stuff. Especially the FBI uploading criminal profiles via jizz skin samples blood saliva all they do that and then while listening to us in this giant office that's incredible

we have the gobliness turkeys in the world and we love you turkeys we really do all so much you crazy bastards we fucking love you and thanks for coming to the live shows and being so enthusiastic about it and it's just awesome. So thank you so much. If you want to find us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com is right there. All the links are there. Keep coming back and seeing us. And until next week,

everybody, it's been our pleasure. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.