Small Town Murder - #439 - Did The Dog Do It? - Dillsboro, Indiana

Episode Date: November 16, 2023

This week, in Dillsboro, Indiana, when a very tough, but gentle man is allegedly murdered... by his dog, police are suspicious of the story. Detectives are even more suspicious, when they find a coffin sized box, on the property, that the man's wife won't let police search. The question is, was he a nice, gentle man, who was brutally murdered, or did he push her to the brink with his "constant nudity"?Along the way, we find out that it's difficult to cross breed a frog with a golden retriever, that if you handle alligators with your bare hands, you're pretty tough, and that you can't just blame everything on your dog!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Dillsboro, Indiana, when a man is allegedly murdered by his normally sweet dog, detectives piece together a much darker plot. back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy edition of Small Town Murder. And we will not disappoint you today because this is wild stuff. We're going to Indiana. Very fun. Before we get started, just want to say thanks to everybody for everything that you've done for us. One live show left this year.

Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get those tickets. Dallas, December the 2nd. So get in there before they're all gone and come see us. That'll be a lot of fun. Thanks to everyone who's come out to shows this year. Boston was amazing recently and virtual live show was great. And you guys are awesome. Thank you so much for hanging out with us.

So do that. And new tour dates for 2024 will be up soon, actually. They're going to be out pretty soon, hopefully within the next month. So we're excited to start making your plans. Very exciting. Good stuff. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, absolutely a cup of coffee will get you instead of a cup of coffee, which is gone in, you know, what, 20 minutes.

Instead, you'll get a couple hundred back episodes of bonus stuff to binge on and then new ones every other week. It's the best bargain going. And what we'll have this week for you is for Crime and Sports, which you'll have access to. That bonus will be about Donnie Moore, which is one of the more tragic things you'll ever see a guy have a bad whenever somebody has something bad happen to them in sports like they you know miss a clutch free throw shot at the end or something you go god what's that going to do to them in their life normally you know just it's going to break them down what must that be like normally they're fine that's what ends up happening they're fine this guy not fine just i mean it's a complete collapse of his entire life from then on it's insane and then for small town

murder we're going to talk about the menendez brothers it's uh they're going to get there they're due finally so we'll talk about them that's patreon.com slash crime in sports and that's the name of our other podcast crime in sports which you should be listening to if you're not because we're doing some murdery stuff over there. Check it out. It's going well. We got a bona fide serial killer right now we're doing a multi-partner on. So check him out.

And also, Your Stupid Opinions. You certainly want to hear your stupid opinions. Oh, man, is it funny. Definitely check that out. Add it to your Monday morning routine. So do that and keep hanging out with us. Quick disclaimer, it's a comedy show, everybody. We're comedians.

This is going to be a terrible murder story, obviously. Awful stuff's going to happen, but jokes are also going to happen. What we do, though, this is the thing, what we do here, we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes. Yeah, but?

But we're not scumbags. That's how that goes. Now you have it. There you go. So if you think that true crime and comedy never, ever go together, we might not be for you. This might not be for you. But it might be. That's the thing. You might be looking at it the wrong way.

Give it a shot and see, but no complaining later. That said, I think it's time, that said i think it's time everybody i think it's time to clear the lungs what do you say let's all let's all clear the lungs let's get ready arms to the sky and let's all shout shut up and give me murder let's do this what do you say everybody okay let's go on a trip let's do it we are going to indiana here we go now indiana this is an episode we've done as a live show in several cities this year this is the dillsborough indiana episode and uh so it's a crazy story anyone that we pick for a live show it has to have a visual aspect to it. It's got to be crazy. This is no different.

Always, always. We're going to Dillsboro, Indiana. Oh, boy. It's in southeastern Indiana. Is that right? Right on the border there of trying to escape Indiana, really. Is it Indiana's Dillsboro? It's the Dillsboro.

Well, the Dillsboro is the Dillsboro. See, you've got your pucker brush. It sounds like a nickname for your asshole. Well, yeah, you've got your pucker brush around it, and then that leads to your Dillsboro. That's how it works, in case anybody was wondering about that. This is about an hour and a half to Indianapolis. So if you want to go someplace just you know, a little more, just as dull, really, but, you know. Yeah.

More industrious. More industrial, industrial anyway. 45 minutes to Cincinnati over there, so, you know, pretty close to the airport. And then four hours and 20 minutes to Trail Creek, Indiana, which is our last Indiana episode, which was Dismembering Grandma, which is one of my favorite titles. Trail Creek, Dismembering Grandma. What a great title. So this is in Dearborn County, area code 812 for Dearborn County. Little bit of history quickly on Dearborn here,

or on Dillsboro and then Dearborn County. Dillsboro was laid out in 1830. It was named for a guy named James D dill who we'll talk about him he was a general in the war of 1812 uh and all this type of shit now dill uh he's so prominent that you can't even find a painting of him from back in the day like there's no you cannot big fans we don't know that he's no one even like just made an image to go he existed so yeah he's no nothing there can't find him anything like that but uh he's a local resident and uh the dillsborough post office was established in 1837 and they spelled it dills right now it's d-i-l-l-s-b-r-o-r-b-o-r-o dillsborough it used to be o-u-L-L-S-B-R-O-R-O. B-O-R-O. Dillsboro.

It used to be O-U-G-H. Until 1893. And they were like, this is just extra letters. We don't have to write. Why are we doing this? I heard that about Marlboros. Marlboros used to be like that, too. Yeah, pointless.

What are we doing here? Yeah, pointless. So Dearborn County here was named after a Revolutionary War and War of 1812 general named Henry Dearborn. He was an American military officer and a politician. And in the Revolutionary War, he served under Benedict Arnold. So that's not good. That's quite the distinction for you there. Yeah.

My boss turned out to be a real dickhead in the last one. The War of 1812. Just because I... Look, they're very proud of the two guys that were a part of it. What was the war for? It was Britain to, you know, fucking tea and crumpet boogaloo there we were having. It was more anger. They're back for more. You know, here we go.

The anger's still there. This Sunday at the Cobo Hall! The Redcoats are back for more! Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! Is that what it was? We had to kick the Brits' ass again? Yeah, there was other, not exactly the same beefs, but they

were involved and there was a bunch of other people. It's a little complicated for right now but you know yeah i'm sorry let's not make it a history lesson but i got it more our speed let's talk about some reviews of this town oh yeah what's going on here there's only one review of the town because it's a small town as we'll find out so there's not a lot of reviews but i found something else there that we'll talk about. Don't worry. So here is the review. Three stars for Dillsboro. Being a small community, we have two part-time police officers.

That's their police force. That's right. Two part-time officers. We just ignore crime a lot of the day, pretty much. That leaves the shift open. Unless these are two part-time officers working 12-hour shifts every day. Well, then they wouldn't be part-time. They'd be full-time.

They've got to be working under 40 hours. That's all their time. So they're either working three 12s apiece and one day is just fucking, you know. Nothing day? Yeah. Live and let live. Yeah. Or, we don't know.

Yeah. Or they're working like, you know, every everyday four-hour shifts and they give half the day or two-thirds of the day to the night. I don't know what happens. One way or another, some crime is not being documented. I would say not. It has to be. They do an excellent job in keeping our town safe and crime low. So apparently they're doing a great job, this person.

But there's very few people here. That's, I think, more attributed to there being not a lot of people around. So we are very fortunate to have a very safe community. Again, you know, if it's just there's nobody around, who's going to do anything to anybody? It's difficult. So because there's not a lot of reviews, I'm like, well, we can't really get the fabric of this town from that. You know what I mean? Yeah, how do you gather it?

Yeah, so let's go to a business here and figure out what's going on. Let's say we had to go to Dillsboro. Our car breaks down on the way from the Cincinnati airport to Indianapolis. What are we supposed to do now? We're going to have to stay somewhere. So I found us a place to stay at the Hillcrest Motel here. So let's find out a little bit about what they have to say here.

Here's a guy named David who gives it one star. Okay, well that's not good. Alright, well, quote, it was the worst place I have ever stayed and I do a lot of traveling for my job. The worst. The worst. By far. Let's find out why maybe he's

exaggerating you know maybe he's hyperbolic that's all he's just likes to throw shit out there room is nasty looks like they never changed the sheets or blankets and then this is my favorite thing of any review we've ever done of anything he tries to say definitely and instead says defiantly have bed bugs which i think is more accurate really that's fantastic defiantly is more accurate probably you know they refuse to be cleanly around they will not get rid of these bed bugs defiantly listen they're all paid up for a month so you're not they're not leaving the bedbugs were here they paid in advance we can't kick them out so he says and when you try to tell them about it they get mad and tell you they're going to call the police on you throw them out that'll be inhumane what's the crime what i'd love to

know what the crime would be if the police showed up reporting vermin i don't know is that a crime forcing people to thieve services i don't know in this town buddy we take the bugs and we hold them close to our bosom okay that's how we do it we nurture them we're protected around these parts yeah those are endangered bed bugs is that what's happening here oh wow it's a very rare species of the indiana bed bug very rare they bite a lot they're really rare they really bite they got molars friend they bite the shit out of you like seriously they go back for seconds um so yes they call the police on you. But I think they need to do that to the people that are working on their cars and other stuff in the parking lot at 3 a.m.

At 3 a.m. There's people like, I see people bench pressing and like fucking wrenching and shit like it's a prison yard. Those people are stealing your catalytic converter. They're not servicing your AC. No, no. Wow. These mechanics are terrible. Everybody's car sounds like shit.

Best damn service ever, though. They do it while you sleep. It's not bad. I would never recommend ever staying there. Never and ever, one word apart. Nice. Never recommend ever staying there to anyone never ever anyone i would rather sleep in my car that's nice

at least manager would not come in whenever they please unannounced and tell you at 8 a.m it's time for you to go. Get out! Out now. Check out till I don't want to hear it. Out. Let's go. The bed bugs said they're tired of you. Wake up.

Wake up. Get out! Yeah, I think it's more like, you go now! I think they scream, as we'll find out here. This guy I love, two stars. This guy takes it on himself. It's his bad. Quote, you should look harder for another place to stay.

I needed to plan better and have a wider search area. This was a last-minute choice. This is all what he says. It's all on me. Slightly better than sleeping on the side of the road. The one guy said he'd rather sleep in his car this guy said slightly better no car just sleeping yeah just in a sleeping bag on the highway as cars go by at 65 miles an hour i didn't even mention a sleeping bag no yeah just curled up cars flying by him

yeah holy pulling up a piece of indiana sleeping on it. Oh, my God. And then finally, here's Cody with one star. Would rate zero stars. Okay. The owners are rude and snoop through your room when you're gone. That's not good. You have to pay 50 cents for each scoop of ice. Oh, that's steep.

That's a high ice price. That seems like a lot. Yeah, when ice melts, you're paying 50 cents for like half a cup of water. That's really not good. For nothing, yeah. Really nothing.

They say checkout time is 11, but kick you out at 9.30. Oh, you got an extra hour and a half. The other guy didn't even get that. You slept in, Mike. It was 8 a.m. That's a pretty good day they gave you late checkout that's nice of them

no free coffee like they say roach infested rooms why do you want the coffee don't drink coffee from there filter through roach carcasses anything you're putting in your mouth that's from there. Oh, man. An owner is a cheapskate. Very rude. If you have a problem at night, he says, quote, no come in office. And owner is a straight perv. Caught him peeping in my bathroom. That's a big complaint.

Start with that. That's the first one. First sentence. First sentence. The very first sentence first sentence rude yeah an understatement man he's friendly obviously but he's a pervert also is the problem should be caught owner peeping in my bathroom and other stuff sucks too that should be that's fine yeah he's certainly out of order on severity of of complaint wow avoid this place at all cost you you've been warned don't say you wasn't everybody don't you say you wasn't everybody don't you say you wasn't because you was i don't want to hear nothing about this man saw your dick too no oh my god don't say you wasn't don't say you wasn't

bed bugs roaches perverts uh 8 a.m checkout this 50 cent scoops of ice. This place is a dream. People in this town, 1,423. So 1,423, not a lot of people. It's shocking that there's a necessity for a hotel at all. I think it's just a pass-through. It's not, you know. Just in case somebody's too sleepy to keep driving. I think that's what it is. Yeah, it's not a tourist destination or anything.

Male, females, about even. A couple more males and females, which is kind of flip-flop from the norm median age a little bit low it's 33 uh family here more married families than other places a little more chill people are single with children race of this town 98.1 white 1% black, and 0.6% Hispanic. So it's a small town. It's just a tiny town. There's not a lot of people here. Religion in this town, 40.7% are religious, and it's spread around pretty good, honestly. There's a few Catholics, some Lutherans, a Baptist or two, maybe a Methodist here and there.

Sprinkle in. 0.0% Jewish, though. That's not happening around these parts. Dearborn County here in this county, last election, 21.5% voted Democrat, 76.9% Republican, 1.6% Independent. Unemployment rate here is about average. Median household income, though though is below average here by a good shot median household income here is thirty nine thousand one hundred twenty dollars a year which is a good sight lower than the rest of the country cost of living though 100 is regular

average here it's 86 and the housing is the low thing. Median home cost here, $172,600, which is low. Wonderful. For the rest of the country. So maybe you want to be here. Maybe you want to be close to the Covington, Kentucky airport. Well, we have for you, in case you do, the Dillsboro, Indiana real estate report. Indiana real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here goes for $879.

And I looked up the apartment complex because there is one apartment kind of complex and they're like kind of brand new and nice looking decent. So it might be the deal here. I found a three bedroom, one bath, 1190 square feet. It's on a 1.32 acres. So it might be the deal here. I found a three bedroom, one bath, 1190 square feet. It's on a 1.32 acres. So it sounds decent, but it's literally falling apart. It looks like if you go inside, it's going to be dangerous.

It's like the roof could fall in at any time. Defiantly have termites. Defiantly has termites. The house isn't isn't all one like it's not all even like if you put a level on it it would be all fucked up like it looks like it goes in a little wonky like it broke in one area you know what i mean it's not good it's a problem here uh but it is on 1.3 acres of there's some woods behind you. Fifty nine thousand nine hundred bucks for that. So, well, that's affordable. Yeah. Knock that house to the ground and build a new one here. Here is a two bedroom, one bath, 768 square feet.

So it's this little house. The attractive thing about it is it's on Sesame Street. So that's nice. If you'd like your address to be on Sesame Street, you have that. But it's not that great of a house. It's kind of dingy inside. Hasn't been touched, looks like, since about 1975. It's, you know, it's old and not great. $109,000 for it, though. Oh.

So, I mean, that's cheap anyway if you want to redo something. You can be a homeowner, yeah? Next up, three-bedroom, three-bath, T-bowl for each and every B-hole. 4,176 square feet, so a big old house here. A lot of house. And only three bedrooms? That's a giant house. It's a lot of house.

24.79 acres, so a lot of land, too. Oh, my. A good chunk of land. Oh my. Yeah. A good chunk of Indiana. It's a big log cabin and everything in it is wood. The inside, there is no, the countertops are the only surface that aren't wood in this entire house.

Everything, the walls, the ceiling, everything is cedar. It's like a, it looks like a fucking hamster cage in there. Good God. It must reek.

Like, you could just piss anywhere in there and it would be fine. You wouldn't even notice it, like a hamster cage. It's weird. That's a lot of splinters. There's, like, bear pelts everywhere on the wall. It's a weird place. Oh, no. There's a pond and an above-ground pool for all.

It's a very strange place. This is a trash place. It's so strange. $699,000 for all it's very strange place but it is it's so strange 699 000 bucks for all that though holy shit yeah that's in phoenix that would be about 12 million dollars i think for that kind of land 20 acres oh my god forget it that's 30 million dollars 25 just about yeah that's that's 699 things to do maybe the dumbest thing to do we've ever seen ever. The mystery elephant. Oh, boy. Okay?

It's a giant concrete elephant that's sitting on a trailer. It's been towed there. It sits in a field surrounded by a chain link fence that's rusted. And people come and stare at it. And they go, wow, what is it? You can't believe it stare at it and they go wow i can't believe it how'd it get here i can't believe it i can't believe how'd it get here number one it was someone towed it here it's not like it's from times it's on a trailer wheels it's on a fucking trailer so it's been since cars that they are looking like, oh, man, it's been maybe the Mayans put it here.

It's like the pyramids. It's not. People look at it. If you do a Google search, though, you can easily find out what it is. The woman, I guess, who's the daughter of the guy who owned it, posted a big thing about it. Her father owned some kind of business where he put it outside, like a car dealership or something. It's a giant fucking concrete elephant. So you go, oh, come down where the elephant is. You can't miss us. That kind of business where he put it outside like a car dealership or something so it would stay it's a giant fucking concrete elephant so you go oh come down where the elephant is you can't miss us that kind of shit you know sure so he then he little car dealership gimmick

thing yeah yeah then he closed his business down which is fucking whatever so he took it home and put it in his yard yeah it's gotta go got to go somewhere. And his wife said, get that fucking thing out of my front yard. Are you kidding me? It's the size of the house. Get it out of my front yard. It's that big. It's not that big, but it's like a fucking small elephant.

It's an elephant. It's huge. It's a fucking elephant. It's a goddamn small elephant. It's like a Dumbo-sized elephant compared to the other elephants, how Dumbo was. There's a reason the saying is elephant in the room

because it's so big, everybody notices it.'s right there we all see it this is an elephant in the field so it turns out the father then had to bring it here he owned land that's above a decommissioned missile base or some kind of military thing where the guy stores a shitload of classic cars underground so underground classic cars and then he just put the elephant there because he had nowhere else to put it. And people come and stare at it like it's some mystical. It's going to tell them something about their life. It's hilarious. Can you believe it?

I can't believe it. Look at it. Look at it. You know, there's like a Camaro underneath it. Something amazing is down there. Yeah. Of all sorts of cool. 67 fucking, you know, 71 Kudas down there yeah of all sorts of cool 67 fucking you know 71

kudas down there it's just not not happening so and then quickly there's also the dillsborough homecoming festival which features not only a badass frog jumping contest that we'll talk about tons of like cover bands and they have wrestling there. The Professional Wrestling Alliance is there. And also a prince and princess, a king and queen, a senior king and queen, and an outstanding citizen award, which is funny. I don't know what that person did. It does say, though, for the frog jumping contest, it says all critters must be pure frog no frog slash dogs frog slash rabbit combos it says so i don't know if you were planning if you were planning on genetically splicing together two animals that don't go together and entering them in a contest

you're not allowed just to let you know we're on to you already yeah we got you it's there so uh crime rate in this town here what we're interested in here the property crime slightly above average so not as safe maybe if you got more than two part-time police officers you'll be able to quell that possibly but maybe add one oh god if i was a 14 year old kid i'd be running wild in that town when there's no they're all off duty. Ha ha. I saw the one having a barbecue. It's time. All the cops are into something, man.

Let's go. Oh, man. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is slightly low. So slightly below average. But how are you going to be killing people when there's 1,400 people here? Because nobody's here to stop you. ain't nobody here to stop me that said let's talk about some murder all right oh boy oh boy all right let's let's start out talking about let's talk about a man

yeah and uh when i say a man i don't mean like me or you i mean yeah a real man you know he's doing it yeah i mean we're technically men but we're not we're not like genetically i got i got one of those we're not like you know we're not like guys you know like if you gave us a pile of wood and a and a big and a few boxes of nails and said make a shelter we'd go oh oh i don't know about that we just lean the wood against each other themselves and make a teepee basically and sit in it we wouldn't even two by fours and nails uh no yeah i don't think i can do that we're gonna need a lot more more people too do you know anybody who knows how to do this sort of thing because neither of us do that would help too too. So this guy, though, different kind of cat. He's one of his friends called him a kind, affable, hardworking man. Yeah.

That's what he's called here. His name's Raymond Green. Now, Raymond Green, born in 1950, he did everything in his life is like tough, like all tough stuff. Oh. He's a cowboy. He breaks bareback stuff. He bareback breaks Broncos. He'll just hop on a fucking wild horse and make it his own in like a minute.

Like shit like that. He does things like that. He served two tours in Vietnam in the Airborne Division. Jesus. Yeah. He's in the Army Airborne Division. And he said, I'm going back for more. I didn't get quite my fill.

I need another one. You don't treat Vietnam like Splash Mountain. No, one more time. One is good. Mind short, everybody. Get back on. Why you got a fast pass for Vietnam, man? What are you doing?

Jesus Christ, he's going back. His brother said, quote, I called him Freebird. Yeah, all right. so his nickname is free bird he loved to be on the ranch around the animals that's his that's his favorite thing to do well or dropping out of a plane one of the two airplanes yeah and rice paddies he's crazy his friend dave who really really likes him a lot his friend dave i think his friend he'll maybe a little crush on him possibly something like that but in like a you know what i mean like a not in a yeah you know i want to i want to stick it in his dillsborough kind of way but just like

yeah just more like i admire his dillsborough exactly looks up to his dillsborough yeah man his pucker brush is trimmed all nice this looks looks so good. Looking good. So Dave said, quote, when you shook his hand, you knew you were shaking a man's hand. Oh. That's right. He said he was very powerful, very strong. That's Raven. Yeah. You knew you were.

Now, has anyone ever said that about you or me? No. Not to single you out. Either one of us. Man, when you shook Jimmy and James' hand, you knew you were shaking a man's hand very powerful very strong say they're warm like their circulation yeah hey soft you guys don't do much do you he's i think he's alive i think that's what he is oh he was pretty warm yeah that, that's good. I felt some resistance. There was something.

There was a little up and down coming from his side. General apprehension. Yeah. Maybe discomfort. He went with me like when you're doing a Ouija board. You know, everybody just kind of goes with it. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit,

but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So another friend of his, Bob Stevens, has another tale of Ray's insane fucking just toughness. He says he remembers a time when there was a 12-foot alligator that they needed to deal with on their property at the ranch. It just showed up on the ranch? It just showed up. This is not in Texas. This is later on in Florida, obviously. I don't know about how many.

Because he's living in San Antonio. I don't know how many alligators are in the San Antonio area, but not as many as Florida. I think they number in the few. Very few, probably, alligators. Just a guy named Alligator. That's what they have. Some guy who runs a custom car rim shop whose name is Alligator. I'll bet all of the gators there are on people's motorcycles.

Yeah. Just like leather with the seat or their jacket. Boots, belts. There's people in San Antonio that went to Florida and bought a souvenir. Exactly. Well, this was a 12-foot alligator, and Bob Stevens' friend said, quote, we contacted Animal Control. They should be able to deal with a big alligator, right, you think? They'll handle it, yeah.

They have equipment. They have the traps for them, you know, that they put them in. Sure, yeah. He said they set up traps, and this gator was so big it would just break all the traps. It broke them. So the things that are made to catch this alligator and the people who are experts in handling them, they have no ideas. They're out of ideas. They put their hands up.

Hands up. I don't know. We threw the sink at it and it threw it back. It just said, fuck off. And it kept doing what it was. It gave us the finger, this alligator, which is weird. We didn't expect that. He said, quote, Ray trapped it himself with his bare hands and put it in the barn.

He just grabbed it. Wow. 12-foot gator breaking fucking traps made for it. And Ray went, you sumbitch, and just went over there and grabbed it. Picked it up. May I? Picked it up and put it in the barn and then told it to sit and it did probably how dare the crocodile hunter call himself that when

this guy did it like this yeah just threw it in there now you stay right there and it was like sorry like shake and it was like okay i got I got it right. I understand. A little hoof up. Sorry I gave that guy the finger. That wasn't right. I apologize. That doesn't mean to me. That's right. You sit in here and you think about what you've done. And then he goes out back to his business.

I'm shocked that his idea was, I'll grab some electric tape or whatever the fuck he did. Because you got to tape the mouth shut, right? He just grabbed the mouth. He grabbed it on both sides you gotta tape the mouth shut right he just grabbed the mouth he grabbed it on both sides he held the mouth and dragged him to the bar that's what i mean this guy is like would you even consider that as an option no i'd just be like i can shoot it right guys i mean you you guys are the professionals and he's breaking everything you've got so i would move before i would attempt that i would pack up my shit and leave it so the alligator took over the property i can't can i put like a stick of tnt in a fried chicken and throw it at it can i do that is that possible hopefully it'll eat it and

then it blows up if my only option is bare hand it or not i'm i'm not doing that there's gotta be a weapon that can do this yeah i'm not gonna just walk over and go come here you son bitch and grab it around the mouth and drag it to a barn me and now it's in a barn what do you do with it then now you have a barn alligator what if you need to get in there barn gators are the worst ones that's what barn gate i was gonna say i hear barn gators are a major problem in uh the florida panhandle i hear aroundallahassee area. They have a real problem with barn gators. It's a big deal. They just live in there.

You get a whole family of them living in a corner, and they'll just take over that son of a bitch. And if it's 12 feet, he doesn't know if this thing's a male or a female. What if it's got eggs in there that he just threw in the barn, and now it's going to lay eggs in your barn? Now you've got more barn gators. Now you've got a family of barn gators. And they're going to grow up thinking that's their home.

That's the problem. You can't get them out of there. They're going to come out of there calling you mama. They're worse than termites once they get into the barn wood. That's what I'm told, yeah. They just burrow themselves right in there. You see one, there's 10,000 of them. You know there's a whole bunch more gators where you see one.

They're hiding under everything. Yeah. So his wife, he's got a wife here uh her name is maggie and they have known each other since he was 11 and she was six that's not when they got married thankfully but they've known each other so forever they've known each other they've always gotten along uh they have a daughter named tracy and they seem to have quite the idyllic little family. I mean, just they lived, as Tracy says, that her father had a special way with all kinds of animals, which we've demonstrated clearly already. I've heard that he does.

They grew up on a 200-acre San Antonio ranch, Tracy said she grew up on. 200 acres. Yep. She said, quote, my dad was a real cowboy he began his career riding bulls and bareback broncos began it began his career she said he always wore his cowboy hat and boots never went anywhere without them so yeah we got a pretty good picture of this guy i mean hell yeah he's the type of guy that he's not just wearing a hat and some boots because he thinks it's a fashionable thing guy that he's not just wearing a hat and some

boots because he thinks it's a fashionable thing to do he's yeah i've been counting all the things he's afraid of james and i've gotten to zero it doesn't seem to be much giant gators don't register the vietcong don't seem to be a problem he seems to be pretty heights the viet Cong flying through the air. Jumping out of a plane. That's no problem. And then an alligator with your bare hands also, which seems terrifying. Nope, he's fine. A bareback bronco. Just a wild horse.

Those are dangerous. They'll kick the shit out of you. They'll bite you and everything else. Nope. He's got that too. He's tough. He turns into a very good horse trainer and horse breeder. Sure.

Because he can just tell them what to do, and they do it, I think. Right. Because you walk over there and trot, and they're like, sorry. I don't have any horses that don't make babies around here because I tell them. I tell them. And they do it. Make babies. I mean, I do play a little like Luther Vandross in the background, though.

I mean, I'm not a monster. You know what I'm saying? Nobody's a machine just going there pumping away. I play a little something to set the mood, but then I mean, I'm not a monster. You know what I'm saying? Nobody's a machine just going there pumping away. I play a little something to set the mood, but then I go, y'all, too, get to it. That's what I mean. Let's do this. Find her hot and make me more horses. Make me more.

And he did. His daughter, Tracy, said he did. We had like 70-something horses, she said. Jesus. This guy is good at what he does. Everything, that's the other thing, too. Everything he touches, he's good at. Like, he's good at things.

He puts his mind to things, and he does them. He's a really stand-up dude. So his friend Dave said exactly that. He said he's a real straight shooter, which, there you go. And also, Ray and Maggie get along along terrifically they have a uh you know their daughter tracy's very happy everybody's happy it's idyllic um yeah they have a client named danielle uh danny she goes by she starts coming around in 2001 she was uh born in 1972 so she's you know 20 years ish younger than these two than maggie and ray but she's a

horse person and ray at this time is yeah you know like the head of a head of a human body of a horse you can't say horse person without me seeing it whenever i hear whenever i hear it i think of fucking h john benjamin's book when he's talking about going away to 4-H camp. And he said, horse people, though, don't mince words. This is my favorite line that anybody's ever said, and it's in that book. It's so fucking funny. Horse people, though, don't mince words. Yeah.

Great tits, four legs, long tail. Yeah, the tits of a human woman, but the rest of it. The head and tits of a human woman with the body of a horse. So Ray is doing farrier work as well as his training and breeding, which is, if you don't know, a blacksmith who shoes and trims hooves of horses. Right. He'll take your horse. Yeah, he'll throw some fucking New Jordans on him and get him ready to go. Hell Right. He'll take your horse. He's a horse mechanic. Yeah. He'll throw some fucking new Jordans on him

and get him ready to go. Hell yeah. He makes them. Got them dunks for you and he just puts them on him. Nice, nice. Yeah. So they met through that.

That's how Danielle, Danny, starts coming around and she brings her horses there to be shooed and he would trim and shoo her horses and she's a long longtime client of theirs.

She comes for a couple years. She's known as a very skilled horsewoman. And she first hired Ray back in 1996 to start training her horses to do stuff. Yeah. They call her. Everybody says she's very disciplined. Danny Green, she spends a lot of her time her energy her money on horses she's all about horses dawn dusk to dawn horses actually dawn to dusk that'd be weird if she just did shit

at night that's so god damn it i'm so glad we don't do that anymore it's dark out i'm going out for the horses now horses are very confused trying to sleep. So that's what she does. Now, May 27, 2002, tragedy occurs here. Oh. Maggie, Maggie Green, Ray's wife, dies on May 27, 2002, which is horrible. It's a horrible thing. And not the murder, by the way. This is not our murder.

This is, I mean, normally it would sound like we got this guy, then a lady comes around. Now the wife is dead, but no, nothing like that at all. Actually, wow, she was driving on the I-40, the Interstate 40, and a barge slammed into the bridge that the 40 had, plunging a dozen cars 75 feet into the water this is why man this is why i hate bridges oh boy and killing all the frightening killing everyone who went into the water and she was one of them yes good god in a horribly tragic way yeah that's what you hate oh i would hate bridges forever no shit every one of them lloyd bow jeff nash everybody

all the bridges nash bridges that shit too god damn it fuck you don johnson that's the one with don johnson right i think that show was supposed to be i don't know yeah is that don johnson or chuck norris who's in that show uh chuck is texas walker oh okay okay yeah walker texas okay yeah all the other ones nash bridges is don johnson and cheech isn't it yes yes oh my god jesus christ that is not good it's a bad show. Yeah, alright. So, yeah, lump them in with the rest of the Bridges. Fuck all the Bridges!

That's not good. And I guess Ray was devastated by Maggie being killed. Yeah. I mean, they've been together forever. Dude, that would ruin you. Yeah. And they're very happy, too. They weren't like, you know, he wasn't like, dodged a bullet on that one. No. Now I ain't got a killer for the insurance.

It wasn't like that or anything. He was very sad here. He said, Tracy said he just kept saying, I miss my rose. I miss my rose. He said he just wasn't the same guy after that. He just was very depressed. But as a bright side, obviously this isn't going to bring somebody back, but he does receive about a million dollars from his wife's estate

and in a settlement from the bridge collapse. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I assume whoever operated that. Yeah, whoever's operating that barge had to know their barge is taller than the bridge, and that's their fault. You know, the bridge didn't get lower overnight probably. There's got to probably be some sort of app that tells them which route to take and how high your your rig is and because trucks have it you know what i mean truckers have

them they're tom tom yeah even pre-tom tom i'm believing that there would be like you can't go under this bridge this bridge this bridge if you're going on this waterway you can't because this height doesn't isn't allowed on there's maybe the water was too high regulations maybe the water was raised that's possible i'm not sure yeah i mean i think you got to have pretty good clearance though i don't think you can be like yeah you should be able to make it i think you should be good i don't think they'll let you do that some guy up in a crow's nest like yeah we're good i think i think we're good i mean the water's a little high but you might scrape her but i don't think it's gonna be a real big problem i don't think anyone's letting that go probably you probably have to get a good

clearance on that the thing i would think probably okay you're probably good i think yeah you're all right oh man so ray's sitting around he's depressed he's upset his love of his life is gone and yeah feel for the guy that's awful you know and that's at this point too he's in his he's like you know 53 years old shit and he's lost his wife they were they were planning on you know living their golden years together here and having a nice retirement and living their lives together and now that's all dashed so what do you do uh about two months goes by and then danny starts coming around danny danny just starts yeah the horse lady she starts coming around hey everybody yeah what's going on around here i mean but two months is a respectable amount

of time to wait that's decent i. I think so. Two months? What are you supposed to do? Two months? I don't know. You wait any longer, someone else is going to swoop in there. This is a desirable point here. You know what I mean? He's got land.

He's got money. But I mean, for him, you got to grieve. That's a long time to be with somebody, and then them not be there in the morning is fucked up. Yeah. I'm not saying two months, you fucking kick the door in and start blowing them, but, you know, maybe you start, hey, you know, maybe you want to go get some lunch sometime and just try to socialize with them and see if at least, I don't know. Yeah.

Something like they'll grab a pizza. I don't know. Something. It's, it seems like a, it's borderline probably, but. It's certainly early, but who's to say? Yeah. I'm not going to judge. I mean, who knows?

Adults. Yeah, maybe he said. What he had been up to. Maybe he invited her to start coming around, too. We don't know. That's the other thing. So she starts spending more time around the ranch when she drops a horse off, and she'll hang out for a couple hours, and they'll talk and hang out. And then they start socializing, too.

They're hanging out. There's pictures of them hanging out, drinking beers together, and being people say some tea but well booze is good yeah being people because it's around this exact time that the marriage that she is getting a divorce from her husband so oh she's got a tough gig going too yeah her marriage is falling apart his wife is dead these two are kind of leaning on each other and both of them he's very affectionate yeah and he's a yeah and and he's into horses she's into horses they they have the same interests they're it's a decent match i mean you know it's decent so uh this is all going on now tracy she doesn't really like danny and for good reason as we'll find out here from for tracy bob stevens said ray didn't chase her there's a lot

of people are like oh and then he must be chasing her because you know she's 20 years younger and all that uh bob stevens says ray didn't chase her she came into ray's life and you know said the things that ray wanted to hear and then that blossomed into a relationship that's this guy's point of view is you know but that's because he's friends with you know he's friends with ray so he's gonna think that so uh but i mean friends with Ray. So he's going to take that. So, but I mean, they were good companionship for each other. They hung out. They genuinely enjoyed each other's company.

What do you want from people? Yeah. And when, when, when, when somebody fills a need that you've got, you know what I mean? Like there's a void somewhere in your life when that person, there's a lot of people that I know that I'm like, why do you hang out? Not even date or married to. Why do you hang out with that guy? And they're just like, I don't know, he seems to be fine. He's there.

Yeah, he fixes something that he needs, and that's fine. How many friends do you have that if you could clear the decks of amnesia, none of those people remember you're your friends, and you could weed out different ones. You wouldn't have all of your friends that way. It just people who have kind of you fall into relationships with people and you end up the next thing you know you have to talk to them once in a while right we show up at the same restaurant uh once a week or whatever the fuck yeah whatever bullshit you've decided to make a relationship out of so um and this this seemed to help him move on from losing his wife and kind of brought him out of his funk also, which I mean, yeah, some some lady will do that for you.

And she's attractive, too. She's you know, she's attractive. She's in shape. She's always riding horses. She's like athletic and stuff. So, you know, he's he's into her, you know, younger lady. May of 2004. Out of nowhere, Tracy says, quote quote they took a vacation and came back married

yikes so they went off and eloped out of nowhere oh my no one expected it tracy said i was happy that he was happy i mean that was good he seemed happy but not happy with danny at all not at all well there's listen to this shit tracy said quote she would come out wearing my mother's cowboy hats and her nice cowboy boots and some of my mom's jewelry oh that's fucked up you can't fucking do that you can't do that and and cowgirl shit is so specific like you get initials embroidered i'm sure of it yeah they're like wrestling boots she probably had mg down the side of them. You know what I mean?

Like, they're very personalized. Yeah, the cowboy stuff is pretty personal. Said nature boy on the fucking television. Yeah, he said it's pretty wild. Also, a large gold championship belt my mother had for some reason. I didn't realize. I didn't know she had that. In the shape of a bolo tie?

That was weird. Very strange. So, yeah, she has good reason to be upset. If I was Tracy, I'd be upset, too. That's my mother's stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's her mother, for Christ's sake. So, now, Dani, what makes her tick is she has a goal.

She's a very goal-oriented person. She finds something she wants and she gets it. You know, that's how she does it. Okay, yeah. Which, I mean, that's how you got to kind of be sometimes. Hell yeah. Her goal is the strangest goal I've heard. And I bet, I'm going to go ahead and go out on a limb here.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of people that are listening to this right now, I bet no more than possibly one person listening will be able to relate to this. Maybe. Maybe one. Relate to it? I mean, have the same goal as her maybe one and i and i even doubt that honestly i doubt the one if you are the one please hit us up on social media and tell us because i will be shocked but she is trying to get into the olympics oh okay a lot of people trying to get in the olympics but not in what she's going

for not in you know the backstroke or like a uneven parallel whatever the fuck's not even curling no dressage yeah which is if you don't know dressage is you ever seen that really weird shit where horses are dancing for some reason you're like what the fuck there's music playing they like put like one paw one hoof up in the air like three times then come down and go up and like kick in the air and come down and then do like a little jump and they do like this weird prancing and shit

it's the weirdest thing that super rich ladies do it's evidently don't watch the Olympics very much I don't know if this is on like if they air this at prime prime time horse dancing but that's what it is it's making horses dance it's not the I don't know if this is on, like if they air this in prime time. Horse dancing. But that's what it is. It's making horses dance.

Isn't that the lead in to Michael Phelps swimming? I think so. We got the horse dance and then the dolphin swim after that. Remember that thing in Phoenix that there was a billboard for? Oh, Cavalier or some shit like that? That's like what it is. It's horses doing like dances and shit. Like they prance weird, then they put their paws up and

pause. Is that shit? Their paws. I think their paws. And their claws. Yeah, that's like when they do go around and the figure skaters do like ice shows. That's I think dressage people. I think they put their horses in that probably, I would imagine. What else do you do with a fucking horse that dances? You can't

race it. Paws and claws, boys. Paws and claws. and claws yeah you can't have kids right you can't just have it hanging around it's always doing weird dances and shit no one's gonna know what to do with that horse it's all fucked up now i mean like when you do something over and over and over again sometimes out of the day like you'll find yourself just doing that you know what i mean like golfers like guys that golf sometimes they'll just be standing there and they fucking drive right there in the fucking grocery store yeah they're just like balanced this way yeah if you were a baseball player you'd probably be constantly trying to make sure your back elbow is yeah does the horse just out there in the in the corral by itself just start doing that shit i think you have to turn abba on for it to really

to get the most out of it you turn on the ab and it really starts grooving it starts doing do they do it to like a specific song it's the mamma mia soundtrack i believe there was no dressage before that came out that was the thing and once that came out the whole industry blew up once abba are you sure they didn't do it to like the who's pinball wizard or some shit i'm sure there could be a separate sect i'm not sure i'm not an expert in this at all there could be a like a a tommy that really puts together the the whole situation i'm not gonna say there isn't what a stupid fucking thing that is i can't believe it exists imagine the time and money you have to have to be able to go

i'm gonna make this fucking horse dance imagine the what a weird thought that is i have so much extra time and money you You know what I'd like to see? A horse dance to ABBA. That's what's going to happen. Don't make this motherfucker dance like Chris Brown. That is dominating nature right there. That is not natural at all. Yeah, we've got to be over.

You know what I mean? The end is nigh. If we're making horses fucking dance and they get medals for it and shit like yeah not only it's not just a thing that happens there it's it's organized and you you win a medal and then you have to pay taxes on that metal like it's that dead ass serious but then you can do fucking chevalier or whatever that shit's called. Caglavalli? I don't know. Caglavivier. Caliente?

I'm not sure. Oh, my God. Caliente. So that's what she wants. Wow. She's so focused. She even wants to move to the place where you go for dressage. Is it?

Is it? There is one place that you really go for dressage. I can never guess. You don't know where to go for wow that's weird i would think that it exists yeah i guess the place you go for dressage is palm beach county florida that's where all the dressage is happening obviously the capital of assholes yeah where they decided fucking we'll make horses dance. So they moved down there to Florida using the million-dollar settlement from the death of Maggie Green. So, I mean, they have money now.

They bought a house. They bought a horse property. Hell, yeah. They're going to raise horses and do horse stuff, and then she's going to make them dance, and that's what they're doing here. So this neighborhood, they bought the horse stuff, and then she's going to make them dance, and that's what they're doing here. So this neighborhood, they bought the horse property, and it's a horse neighborhood, which I didn't know existed.

But there's 22 miles of horse trails that don't intersect with any roads. How the fuck do you do that? I don't know. You'd really have to get a piece of paper out and a pencil and really work on that one pretty hard, I think. It's like that kid's menu meal. Like a Denny's maze. Yeah.

Yeah. And try to figure it out. That's crazy. Yeah, like a Denny's placemat maze. That's what you're doing there. Wow. How does that work? 22 miles.

22 miles. So they purchase real estate worth around a million dollars in this equestrian community. And Green's going to train her horses. And that's what they do for a living, and then she also does dressage. So she basically is up at 5 a.m. Ray built her a workout room. She gets up at 5 a.m. She works out, trains, gets outside, does all-day horse trainings

until it's dark outside. She's training horses. Is she doing this for other people's horses too or just yes that's their business too so she has other people's horses and then she's training hers and dressage at the same time and she's just all day all night that's all she cares about his horses so um the only thing they really do for fun is they found a little outlet yeah ray and danny called the cowboy action shooting club yeah which is a bunch of people who dress up like they're in tombstone oh boy it's all period attire they hold regular meetings

it's period attire cowboy stuff and they participate in shooting competitions using replica firearms from the old west so it's all they all dress up like 1880s and they all give themselves a cowboy nickname and they have these these targets up and they do these quick shooting competitions that's what they do it's for speed and accuracy that's the the whole thing yeah it's it's what a waste of time you def well i, she's making horses dance, so you have to have the time. She has the time. Let's be honest. She is burning all kinds of finite shit around here.

That's what I mean. She doesn't give a shit. So they give each other nicknames, or they have their own nicknames. They give themselves nicknames. She goes by... This is basic, but it's kind of hard not to do, I guess, if you're... She's not a comedian or anything. She goes by Danny Oakley, like Annie Oakley.

Yeah, of course. Makes sense. Ray doesn't even give it that much. He's like, well, I like in Tombstone that Doc Holliday seemed fun, so he just calls himself Doc R. Green. Yeah. I'm also Ray Green, though. I ain't trying to.

He's not taking this very seriously. I don't put airs on for nobody. I'm also Ray Green. though. I ain't trying to. He's not taking this very seriously. I don't put airs on for nobody. I'm also Ray Green. I'm a basic guy. And if you lead me to your alligator, I will train him. So they have friends named Jerry and Karen, and they say that Danny was a real natural in the shooting club. And within a very short amount of time, she became the top shooter at the club. Oh, she's the winner. she's excessively competitive too she's very competitive very type a very i'm gonna be the

best which i mean hey good for you so um yeah she's out there shooting her friend karen said at the time i was the top shooter of the club and she just soared right by me. Soared. Soared. I mean, on wings of fucking. So much better than me. Yeah, so much better. And her husband said she really wanted to win. That's that's Jerry. So she won numerous competitions.

She's much better at it than Ray. Really? Because Ray, though, is the thing. And everybody said rating care about winning. It wasn't his thing. He was there to have a good time. Period. Yeah. I mean, he liked to socialize right we're hanging out yeah he liked to socialize he liked dressing up and playing with uh old timey guns he thought that was fun and you

know yeah i'm sure there was like a 19th fucking hole also afterwards or they had a bunch of beers while they're dressed up in cowboy gear that That's probably part of it, I assume. Why wouldn't you? And if you're all together somewhere afterwards, that leads to questions. And then people are like, oh, look at you guys. This is so cute. And now there's conversations happening. There's friends and everybody's having a good time.

These are the 50s. Yeah, there's a lot of socializing in this club. It's as much to hang out and be a social part of it as it is for the competition. So 2008, though, things start going a bit awry for them on the financial side because, if you remember in 2008, the economy collapsed. And specifically, the real estate economy really, really took a shit, which is bad for people who are heavily invested in a horse property and have a second mortgage on it. Yeah. Those houses dropped in value first. Yes, absolutely.

And Bob Stevens, one of his friends that talked about the alligator, he said it was just devastating for Ray. The horsing market fell apart. Never mind the housing market. The horsing market was a problem. I didn't know that was a market the fucking horsing market was a problem i didn't know that was a market the horsing market if you think the horsing market's shit wait till you find out about the houses yeah jesus christ you're gonna be living on a horse so you better be able to buy one you're gonna see everybody's got a house and those shits ain't worth nothing right now

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So yeah, if you're having problems with your house, your horsing isn't what you're thinking about. Oh, forget it, yeah. Apparently people didn't have money for horses and the whole horsing and dressage industry fell apart. Oh no. There's no time and money now to be dancing horses around that's not that's that's for good times with all these what am i gonna do with all these hoof boots

these hook the all these hoof uh taps that i put on them my horse's tap dance but this is a lot of blue suede tap shoes for horses making a horse dance is some serious last days of rome shit though you know what i mean that's like it doesn't get more last days of rome than hey that amazing majestic beautiful animal we ride it we use it for work we do all that what if we made it dance for our pleasure that's that is not yeah just because it's entertaining to me if this all falls apart you guys be proud of us we we got to horse dancing we got to horse dancing yeah we got all the way there that's amazing that's something that's some kind of society you know what yeah i'm not even embarrassed anymore for our society in general because we had horses dancing we really built it up pretty good. We had bears in the fucking circus riding bicycles.

We've done great. We had toilets that flush and horses that dance. To me, those are two big human accomplishments we should be very proud of. Pugo babay, guys. It's amazing. You poop and you press a handle and it goes away. And then clean water fills its place and horses dance you can shit while a horse is dancing and then flush it away that's how great modern technology is

let it all blow up who gives a shit jesus so bob said they were using their second mortgage to pay for their first mortgage and it was just a disaster so they struggled to keep up with their bills basically they still attended cowboy action shooting club matches. You need some outlet for your aggression, I guess. But they would try to make money now off the livestock. Their friend Karen said the chickens would lay eggs and she would bring eggs for everybody and people would buy the eggs to try to help them out. And, you know, they're like selling livestock that they normally didn't do just to try to make spin the plates until things. Hopefully the ship gets righted. They do get a little bit of, you know, some help here.

They get hired by their neighborhood, the horse neighborhood, to become the landscapers, to take care of all the common areas in the horse neighborhood. There's a lot of land. Yeah, I assume that's pretty decent money for all that 22 miles of horse trails. You'd have to keep that trimmed so things don't grow into the trail and stuff. How does that not exist for dirt bikes or some shit like like that a neighborhood of just 22 miles they do horse trails they do remember we had that that was one of the things to do in a recent episode remember they had that really one of the thing you just show up and they had shit loads of shit loads of trails to ride around in and then you camped that was part of the oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah side by sides and shit that's right yeah it was

for you could dirt bikes and four-wheelers, whatever you want. I'm talking about a neighborhood where you just go in your house and then rip that shit out back and go through the neighborhood. Probably because if you've got 100 adults that care about dirt bikes, half of them would be stabbed to death in the first 30 fucking minutes that that place was open. There would be Red Bull and blood running in the streets if that happened. Couldn't have that. Monster energy drinks. Are you kidding me? The streets will run green with monster.

Yeah. Monster and the blood of your enemies. Are you joking? That's why. You're right. It would be mayhem not just a disaster dust there would be so many fights people would be jumping their houses and then punching a guy when they land it would be a disaster dude that's what i mean everybody's just dabbing each other noise the streets. Just the noise alone, people would kill each other. Three o'clock in the morning, there'd be...

God damn it! People would be losing their minds. Losing their fucking minds, man. So Ray is mowing the shit here, mowing the property. Their homeowners association hired them, and then he's also doing work for individual neighbors, yard work work for them they're landscaping in case they want extra money dave his friend said uh he had the contract to take care of the right-of-ways mow the grass take care of the ditches they asked karen if because karen was friends with danny they said

did you get any sense that danny kind of maybe thought it was a step down cutting the grass you know doing this humbling yeah karen said she didn't think so she said that she didn't think that danny was like that at all that didn't seem like the way she was she seemed pretty down to earth she wasn't materialistic or status driven so it seemed to be fine now tracy doesn't think so though tracy said she believes the only reason reason why Danny wanted to marry her father was for his money. She said that Tracy at the time didn't know that her father didn't have any more money and that he was doing all of this. What did they pay for this house? Almost a million dollars in the million range.

And it's worth probably half of that now. So at the time and not now, but then the problem is Tracy didn't know all this because Tracy can't get a hold of her father at all. Really? Because they Danny and Danny and Ray share a cell phone. Yeah. And Danny blocked Tracy's number in the cell phone. So when Tracy would call, she couldn't get a hold of ray that's not good at all and then when move yeah when ray would finally talk to tracy he would say how come you never

call me i miss you where have you been what's going on jesus and she's like well i can't tracy said i got this message saying this phone is no longer taking calls from this number she blocked my emails and letters tracy also sent him a certified letter a certified mail christmas card with pictures of her children his grandchildren and it came back denied oh no yeah and she's like that's not my father doing that i don't think tracy called it very cruel she said it really broke my heart not to have my father in my life anymore. But she thought that Danny was trying to keep all the money to herself. She didn't want Ray giving Tracy any money. She said, to lose my mother the way I did and now being separated from my father, it was very heartbreaking.

That's an excellent point. That's terrible. Yeah, I feel horrible for this girl. That's awful. That's sad. So they end up having to sell the house in a short sale. Oh, that'll fuck your life for a long time oh yeah which a lot of people did back then i did that yeah that's that's a very common thing

nope uh so they were struggling struggling and at the same time around this exact same time danny finds out that both of her parents have terminal cancer at the same time oh shit yeah so everything is kind of imploding here it's a it's a real titan submersible submersible of a situation going on here there's problems yeah so um yeah they both had cancer uh karen her friend said i think she felt that it was her place to go up and take care of her parents. And besides, there's no place in Florida for them anymore because they don't have a home anymore. So Danny ends up moving in with her parents to basically take care of them as they die. She goes all the way to Indiana to do that. Dillsboro, Indiana, to be exact.

Oh, hey. Hey, look at that. Look where we came back to. To see them off, more or less? Yep, to take care of them and help them through their hard times here. So that's what she does. At one point, Dave said, quote, Ray had asked a couple of his friends to come over and help them load some of the big items out of their house and into a moving van. He had misplaced the box that had his personal items in it.

So Ray misplaced his stuff and he asked where it was he asked danny have you seen my box and uh she said i got a fucking box for you let me tell you something no she said uh dave said and she went off on him berating him belittling him in front of everybody i made this comment to my friend and this comment haunts me to this day he said it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't kill him one day that's what he said yeah so she just was like kind of nasty to him about a box i don't that's not doesn't seem murderous to me but stupid dumb i'll kill you in your sleep you fucking mor moron. I mean, what else? Yeah. So she ends up moving to her parents' house there.

Raymond stays in Florida for a while. Really? He basically sleeps on his friend's couch and he still does all the landscaping work, even though he doesn't live there anymore. Can't quit your job. He just sleeps on a friend's couch and dave said that ray would just send his paychecks to danny directly in indiana wow well he has a contract so he's got to do it for a certain amount of time that's the thing he's got to do it i mean i'm sure he could just move and they'd find someone else to mow the lawn it's not like you know but still um dave said i I've literally seen him live off cold cereal.

He would make a meal out of bread and water if he had to because he had no money to live. He just gave it all to her. So he's down there. Yeah, just down there on the couch and doing all that. During this, though, one nice thing. This guy who he's staying with ends up getting Ray like a burner phone, basically, a cell phone. So Tracy is able to get a hold of her father now. Very nice.

Yeah, they get to reconnect. Tracy said, we finally got to talk almost every day. We were finally able to have a relationship again. So that's nice. Then Bob Stevens does something very nice and gives Ray a plane ticket to Texas to go see his daughter and his grandkids. Wow. What a guy. Yeah, he gets to do that.

It just sucks that a guy like Ray who's, you know, worked pretty fucking hard his entire life and, you know, jumped out of a goddamn airplane and, you know. All right. He's done a lot. And this poor guy has to sleep on a couch and depend on the goddamn the charity of his of his friends to for him to be able to see his grandkids that just sucks you know it's a shit i mean welcome to 2008 there was a yeah yeah people that just sucks in general you know overall that's so shitty yeah that's what our yeah that would happen so um bob stevens said i gave him the trip on his birthday and he flew out there and had a great time with his daughter

and his granddaughter it was the first time he visited them for the first time in 8 years so yeah and Danny was not happy about that by the way that he went to see Tracy not thrilled at all not thrilled about his birthday gift

I don't know how you what would be your thing to say to get mad how dare you see your grandchildren like that's a weird yeah i don't get what you're mad at he didn't spend any money he didn't do it make any sense in a controlling shitty relationship it's probably something like you use that time to go there when you could have come to see me that kind i guess but he didn't give me a ticket to come see you he gave me a ticket to go there it was free to see my grandkids it's i just i don't know what her argument could be to be upset like what do you i'm mad at you because yeah i'm drawing a blank of why you're there and not here or yeah you could be working or yeah you could be working more like

that's the only thing i can imagine so i don't know what's up with that so danny is in indiana and while she's in indiana she rather than connecting with somebody from her past she connects with somebody from the cowboy action shooting club instead okay and starts talking online every day emails and calls and all that sort of thing to a guy named george mann who is one of the members of the shooting club. And this is anything in 2012, any way you could communicate, they were communicating. So that's what they're doing. You want to know his shooting club nickname here, George Mann?

It is Angus McNasty. Angus McNasty. Yeah. Angus McNasty is his name. So there's that. Anyway, you got that. McNasty. Angus McNasty. Oh, God damn it.

He's going to do you from behind wearing a cowboy hat and spurs still. That's what that sounds like. Is he trying to make it sound like a dirty butthole is that what he's trying it feels like he's right yeah i think he's trying to sound like he's like you know yeah he's the dirty cowboy i'll get it in your stink star whether you like it or not yeah right in your dillsborough i think it's one of those right on in there yeah so they exchange hundreds of emails and yeah you fucking name it man emails spend hours on the phone and they're just talking and talking and talking i mean they've known each other for years from the shooting club and everything but when they they hadn't talked

you know individually until she went to ind. And that was when this all started. George is married, too, by the way. Oh, attaboy, George. He's not even single. Hundreds of emails? Hundreds of emails, which they stack up quick if you're talking to somebody. Like if you're talking back and forth. Yeah, a reply could just be one yes.

That's what I mean. They could be doing that sort of thing, like an email. I don't know why you'd communicate like that when you could just do text messages or instant messages or a million fucking apps and this that yeah anything so george said one day out of the blue i get an email we ended up calling and we just kind of clicked off which sounds dirty yeah yeah it does sounds like you need to clean up after you've clicked off i feel like why is that is is that is his hook with being mcnasty he makes everything sound disgusting everything sounds sexual even as even as arby's otter it's just sexual anyway anything you leave a little hole

in that and fill it just fill it with with roast beef with meat can i get a beef and cheddar but like make it drip make it drippy so they're clicking off that's nice they communicate pretty much every day multiple times a day most of the time yeah later on somebody said, it wasn't X-rated explicit. It was sexually suggestive. And for proof, I have a little excerpt of one of their conversations. This is why it's very risky to ever send anybody back and forth stuff like this, because when you're doing it, nobody's dead. Nothing's happened. Everything's fine. And then a couple of years later, somebody's dead and two dickheads are on a podcast reading your exact words and making fun of you for it so be careful you don't know murder is going to touch your life and when it does uh it they could be looking back dozens of

years you never know yeah just be careful who you correspond with and how is all I'm getting at. So this is between George and Danny. Okay. Here we go. This is, this is Danny. Oh, she, she starts it.

Quote, curled up by a fire under a blanket with nothing on underneath the blanket, sipping hot chocolate. Can you top that? That's her, that's, that's her, her message. Yeah, I can top that.'s what that's that's her her message okay yeah i can tell

what a weird filthy around here what a weird thing to email too yeah email just seems like business it seems very weird to just like did she hit a little signature at the bottom yeah that's what i mean sent from my fucking blah blah blah sent blah. Set for my Android. Danny, horse woman with her phone number. Yeah. And a picture of her with a horse. He responded with, he's not very good at this, Angus McNasty. No. He responded with, quote, nothing can top that.

Wish I were there. Which is not what she wanted you to say. No. You are going to get an out of office reply for that. Yes. Yeah. You're getting definitely you're getting gone for labor day weekend tuesday that's what you're getting nothing dirty your name is mcnasty wish i were there that's not to which she said anyway gonna gonna watch a show now

see you later, I guess. That's what she said, I think, to that, because you're not giving me what I need. Law and order's on. Got to go. So old Angus McNasty said, you know, because they were like, aren't you a married man? And he said, well, you have to understand attractive women. I tend to be a little more flirtatious than I should be. You know, we're Like most straight men are.

Yeah, that's the problem. You like boobs? Unbelievable. I got this weakness for things that make my pee-pee hard. It's strange. Yeah, dummy. What are you, four? That's what I'm saying.

Obviously. Yeah, it makes me want to touch it. Oh, just diddle on it so they never had any physical relationship he says though at all um he hadn't even seen her since you know she moved to indiana they're just yeah doing all that shit he said quote i flirt i think it's cute cute angus mcnasty is cute i think it's flirty vibes cute cute cutesy cute like a puppy i flirt i think it's cute i think it's funny it means nothing um and also um his wife and him he are divorcing later on too as a result of this yeah because because flirty is not cute. It doesn't mean nothing.

It means, given the opportunity, I'd show you my dick. Quote, wish I were there. Where you're nude and under a blanket. How's that? Yeah, if his wife read that, she'd go, why? Yeah, gee, what you gonna do? Why do you wish that? Yeah, huh? huh what's that you guys gonna play canasta what's going on here didn't think so you want to put marshmallows in that hot chocolate is that what you want to do you're gonna turn that checkerboard over and figure out

what the fuck othello is, do it. Knock it out. Go crazy. That's what you were doing. There's not a wife on the planet that wouldn't ask, why? Yeah. Gee, what you going to do when you get there? Nothing under it. What are you going to do?

Fair question. Very fair question. Oh, my God. So in 2013, both of Danny's parents die pretty close together. Yeah. So one than the other. Raymond's going to move from Florida to Indiana to be with her now. Oh. He was waiting on her parents to die for some reason.

So I don't know what's up with that. Yeah. waiting on her parents to die for some reason. So I don't know what's up with that. Danny is about to get some land inheriting here. I could have said that way better. She's about to inherit some land. Danny's about to get some land inheriting to her here. Jesus Christ. I don't know English. You're about to inherit it.

Wish hour there. That's about as good as Angus did. I just did, yeah. I'm a moron. If what you're going to do is anything you did with me, you're going to finger around for five seconds, then you're going to come really fast, and then you're going to fall asleep. How about this? Pray tell.

What are we doing? this pray tell what are we doing so he moves up there and she her parents own 300 acres on a mountain oh and that's where like the farmhouse was these properties and there's three kids so each kid gets 100 acres that's how this works not bad and so the farmhouse on it though well the way they their 100 acres there's a big giant farmhouse that's falling apart. It needs to be renovated. The ceilings, if it's not safe to inhabit. So they're living in a rusty single wide in the yard. Oh, God.

Yeah. Rusty single wide trailer in the yard. That's where they're staying while they figure out how to get the house done. So that's what they do. 100 acre property. The driveway is like a big, long driveway with a gate across it because animals don't get out and shit. It's a big property here.

Tracy said, quote, she was in control, meaning Danny, anytime she's around my father. So moving back to be with her, I felt I was never going to hear from him again. That's tough. She wanted to run this property as a horse farm you know because i mean that's what she knows she knows horses so ray there's no money in that right away because they're starting it out so it's not like they can both make a living off a horse farm so ray has to get a job and he gets his commercial driver's license and starts working as a trucker jesus yeah it's like i need something else to wrestle how about a big rig unbelievable yeah gators ain't big enough i need thousands of pounds behind me 12 feet what am i pussy i don't

think so give me i need something with with air brakes that can fail i need something terrifying got anything like that? Oh, a truck. Okay. Yeah, Ray is just tough. I'll handle that. So he's offered a job, and when you're a trucker, apparently, you get life insurance because, you know, there's a good chance you're going to die out there doing that. Yeah.

So it happens. Yeah. Fuck yeah. It happens. So he gets life insurance and he gets a quote from his company and then he goes and gets his own quotes to see if it's better. And he contacted select quote insurance to compare prices. And he talks to a guy named Raymond Kwong. K-W-O-N-G.

Kwong. Yeah. So Raymond Kwong, the insurance agent. I'm saying Kwong because there's both Raymonds and they're both Rays. I don't want to be confusing. So Ray and we're going to go with Ray and Kwong here. They're the team. Yeah.

Kwong asked Ray if he would mind if Kwong sent him a complimentary quote for your wife as well. He's trying to upsell. That's all he's doing. Yeah, I'll sell you more. What do you want? One policy is cheaper policies cheaper than two fuck let's do it um so he said sure yeah quong said he would provide quotes for policies ranging from a hundred thousand to half a million dollars okay raymond also said hey you know i'd like to get an insurance policy for my daughter tracy to provide some security for her children in case anything should happen to her which is a really responsible and kind thing to do sweet thing yeah so uh Ray says though

he doesn't want Danny to know about the policy for Tracy because Danny would be angry about that that he's spending money on that so he said he asked Kwong whatever you do do not send any documents to my house with Tracy's name on them because it'll really put me in a world of shit so he said no problem and the package came and obviously had tracy's shit right in there immediately sent it right to his house thanks quong yeah so it's sent to the home uh danny herself she didn't even trust ray at that point she took it upon herself to call quong and say is ray trying to purchase a policy on tracy and quong put two and two together and went oh he didn't want me to send that there and i did i fucked up pretty bad i better try to

help this is that ration of shit you didn't want to get i'm catching it oh i got he said you don't want to know what she's gonna to say. Now I get to find out. Okay. Excellent. I'm about to find out what she's got to say. He figured it out and he said, no, not to my knowledge. I just thought, you know, he might want a quote. And so I worked one up for him because, hey, why not?

You know, I'm trying to, I'm slinging quotes here. So I found her social and her address and her name. Yeah, you know how it goes. Yeah. Worked it up that's but that was his excuse like i was just trying to sell another policy that's all so danny then uh she is all freaked out and she calls angus mcnasty yeah and tells him and a bunch of other people too that she is very worried and suspicious that ray is going to try to obtain a large insurance policy on her life, which she does not want. She said, I'm young and healthy.

I don't need a big insurance policy. So, you know, I don't know what he's trying to do. Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, it's just Quang trying to sell another policy. That's all. I mean, it's not. Ray wasn't like, I need five million on my wife right now. It wasn't anything like that.

Ray Kay's got some kids. He's trying to put them through college. That's all. That's all. He's an insurance guy. Yeah, you want fries with that? It's the fucking insurance version of can I supersize that for you or whatever the shit. So January 2014, Ray and Danny get divorced.

Oh. But not because they're having problems for financial reasons because they learned that if they weren't married ray would get a shitload more money in social security benefits stemming from his wife's death really he's leaving tons of money on the table being married so they get divorced so he can collect more money it's just to help uh they figured it out i guess probably an accountant probably told him when he did his taxes they So they get divorced so he can collect more money. It's just to help. Who knew that? They figured it out. I guess probably an accountant probably told them when he did his taxes.

They probably said, you know that you're completely getting way less money than you could be. You're pissing away $800 a month. Yeah. So they end up doing a – they're still living in the trailer together. They have a normal relationship. But, you know, just that. relationship but uh you know just that so may 26th 2004 or may 27th 2014 i apologize here um danielle says that ray is dead oh yeah that ray is dead um not only well not only dead but murdered as well been murdered yep that's what she says here. She knows. Yep.

She said she contacts family and friends to tell them of Ray's demise. Calls, hey, sorry to tell you, Ray's dead. Yeah, he's dead. He's been murdered. He's been killed. And they were like, who could have killed Ray? Everybody liked Ray. You know, what's going on?

And she said, I know, I know. You know who killed him, though? You know who killed him? Our 60-pound adopted German shepherd named jazzy what if uh dude the pictures of this fucking dog you saw the pictures of this dog it is a sweet looking dog absolutely a sweetheart looking dog it's like snuggled up with them and they're like in his face and plus their face is next to it yeah not only that i get that a dog can snap sometimes but this is a guy who can take a 12 foot alligator and put it in a barn yeah he's been to vietnam twice i'm not scared i'm not scared of a dog a 60 pound dog killing him seems like wow what that dog must have been what is it on did you give it like PCP or something yeah

yeah steroids and PCP and it said go to work little guy so yeah that's what she said she calls up his work which is the role or rule or whatever however you say that roehl trucking company and reported herself as I'm Danielle. And, um, you know, uh, Ray has died as a result of a fatal accident over the weekend. Yeah.

And then she pretty much just hung up. Wow. Click. I gotta go. Yeah. They're like, I guess we need somebody to do that other route to El Paso. Cause I don't think Ray is.

Yeah. She just called him in dead, so I don't think he's coming in today. No, probably not Monday either, she said. I don't think it's. I don't know about the rest of the week. I'm not sure. Then she called back the same day. Yeah.

She called back a little later. Yeah, Danielle again. How you doing? Yeah. Yeah, I remember ray's dead yeah you know that and everything well let me figure i'd fill you in on some details you know she said that he'd been killed by her rescued german shepherd it attacked ray's throat and ripped it out right before her very eyes wow she watched the whole thing happen my god wow what a

vicious animal vicious dangerous animal i'd have questions did you put it that did you shoot the dog yeah what happened did you put it in the barn did you teach it to dance what'd you do maybe she should teach it to dance that could help maybe you know there could be like a yeah maybe that's what she needs like i've seen those movies where kids are having problems and then some fucking white lady comes in and teaches them all how to fucking dance. Fixes everything. Everything's fine after that. They seem to be going to college and everything's good.

So maybe if you do that, it'll work. So suspicions here. Ray's family is suspicious, especially. They're like, a dog killed him. That doesn't make any sense. Especially doesn't make any sense to Ray 84 year old mother this poor woman she's 84 she's gonna deal with this uh betty is her name of course 84 year old betty she said she called the sheriff's department and said this this is from the recording quote i need to get some

information on my son my daughter-in-law called me this morning and said that he was killed yesterday by a German shepherd dog. The dog jumped up and grabbed his throat. Then she said, Said the dog killed my son yesterday, a German shepherd dog. Why would she call me with such a story if it didn't happen? I mean, yeah, that's some far-fetched shit. Exactly. Those are all

fucking great questions betty who who would make up some crazy shit like that that's not a good story to make up and then the police are like we haven't heard this story at all this is wow weird this is strange think think someone would have notified us of this she's called nobody but the family and the job that's pretty much it yeah just he's dead i mean who else can you call i guess you gotta call the cops yeah cops you know the ambulance the morgue was somebody i don't know so tracy said my grandmother had called me at work and told me that danielle had said the dog killed him tracy said animals like him how can a dog kill him?

This didn't make any sense to her. She's like, this guy can make a wild horse fucking do what he wants it to do in 10 minutes. A dog's going to kill him? Give me a break here. Sure. So May 28th, so the next morning of 2014, two Ohio County Sheriff's Department deputies go to her home to do a welfare check on Raymond. This is the Ohio County Sheriff's Department. Yeah, it's Ohio.

Oh, Ohio County. Ohio County, yeah. They head here to the home to do a welfare check on Raymond. Sure, yeah, yeah. Let's do a welfare check. What do you say? Because they've heard from Betty that apparently he's been murdered. right she danny never called the cops right the cops don't have any notification about murder except for from family yeah saying they got notification about murder

so when they get there no ray no jazzy anywhere and danny's just going about her day she's fucking with horses she's like you know heads trimming yeah just having a normal day around the property so they said uh her her sister was there her niece was there they're just sitting around talking and the cops came and said yeah we're doing a welfare check we you know like to get a hold of your husband ray so we can just make sure he's okay and she said oh he's not home oh they said okay well where is he we'd like to get a hold of him she said well he's out on he's doing his job as a truck driver he's out trucking right now so he'll be back in a few days he's over the road and they're like okay that's it and she just went about feeding her horses engaging her sister in conversation like yeah have a good one yeah no

he's gone now bye just like ignoring not here right now they're like okay so they turn around though and they look in the driveway and there's a fucking giant 18 wheeler sitting in the driveway yeah and they're like isn't that his truck and she's like yeah and they're like well how the hell is he on the road if that's his truck and she's like i don't know maybe he borrowed somebody else's beats me i guess he's got lots of them i guess he's got he got more and just and just completely like goes about her business like nothing happened. Those things are half a million dollars. Yeah.

They're like, okay, she called the job, called the mom, said a dog killed him. Now the cops show up and he's out on the road trucking, but his truck's here. Something's not adding up somewhere. It's not jiving. Yeah. No, and they didn't know, too. They started thinking that betty is 84 years old is she senile did she's did she lose her did she imagine this or something and call up so

they don't even know but they do know that there's a big truck on the property so they are suspicious of everything here so the officers have his cell phone pinged because this is you know the 2010s you can do that they're like we'll find out exactly where this is, you know, the 2010s. You can do that. They're like, we'll find out exactly where he is if he's over the road and we'll get a hold of him. So they ping his cell phone. It comes back to being on that property. Oh, on his home property there. So they're like, OK.

So they return a couple hours later with the knowledge that his phone, at least, is on the property. And they say, look, we have evidence that says he's here. His phone is pinging to the property. We can't find him. There's rumors that he's been murdered and killed and all this type of shit. So we'd really like to look around for him. And she said, absolutely. She's sitting on a lawn chair out in front, I guess.

And she said, you can rip the trailer apart chair out in front i guess and she said you can you can rip the trailer apart go ahead look in the farmhouse there's a hundred acres it's big but i mean it's at all yeah you can have at it you can search high low up my ass in my fucking shower wherever you want to be except there is one place i would say you're not allowed to search. And that is, you see about 30 feet away that giant metal box that's like one of those big toolboxes that sits in the back of a truck? You know, a big pickup truck there? The big ones. That box sitting there, you can't look inside there. Everywhere else we can?

That giant coffin-sized metal box, not allowed to go in there but anywhere else on the property everywhere else is fine anything look through my underwear drawer no problem out of that box just right there why that one uh well she said i can't let you do that because that's ray's stuff in that box and i can't give you permission to search through Ray's stuff. Obviously, it's not mine. Clearly. So they said, okay, that's not suspicious or anything. Not at all. So that seems fair. So they go to the box and I'll show you the picture here.

You can see it. The box is sitting there. There's two latches on the box where the lid comes down. One latch, as you can see see here is padlocked and the other one's open so the padlocked side is down and the unlocked side has about you know an inch of open space where the yeah it's sticking up and there is flies covering this box and pouring in and out of it at all times flies fucking flies Flies. Fucking flies. Don't look there? Don't look in there, whatever you do.

That's Ray's stuff, so I can't let you look. Anywhere else except that fly-covered coffin-sized box about a fucking 30 feet from the house. Don't look in there. Whatever's in there. Ray's stuff is spolt. We should probably open it. Yeah, I mean, maybe, but who knows?

So they go, all right um sure um the detective said she said it was ray's box and couldn't give consent for anyone to look at it it had a padlock on it but it wasn't completely closed on the end and there were flies like we said and they could also smell what smelled like decomposing flesh coming from the box so they go okay well we're gonna call in and ask for a search warrant so they get a search warrant for the box because she said nope not letting you search she sat there in a lawn chair just hanging out like drinking the fucking iced tea just hanging not even giving a shit so they come back they pop the box open and on top are carpet scraps and rags and all sorts of stuff, cleaning supplies and things. A lot of them have a lot of blood on them, by the way.

Then they pick all that up and they find Ray's body in there, crammed, smushed into a fucking metal box, a toolbox for a truck. She's smushed in there. metal box, a toolbox for a truck. She's smushed in there. And on top of him, by the way, is a.38 pistol with 10 spent shells in it, in a Ziploc bag. So whoever killed him was very neat in packaging up all the evidence for the cops already. She might as well, like, wrote a fucking date and time on it and sealed it for him. Her idea was that's,

I'm going to tell them it's Ray's stuff and they have to get his permission. And then they can't find Ray. So they'll never get it. Genius. Genius. Hey, we don't know if she's guilty or not. Who knows?

Yeah, but yeah, exactly. This is crazy. Not looking good. No. She's told multiple stories that all were untrue. Yeah, but why start with the, there's a gun in there.

Why start with a dog ripped, what is happening? There's a dog ripped out in there. This is just a box of evidence. It's the body, the murder murder weapon the cleaning supplies yeah it's like if the cops loaded up a box let's get everything of evidentiary value from the trailer they put that's what they did she just did it all for them yeah they can just take it right to the prosecutor's office and they can just start labeling it exhibit a exhibit b because it's fucking all there so they find her uh they find him and she's just they return to danny and go you were done with their search now

yeah and the the detective is asked when you told her we found him how did she react right she should be like what oh my god The detective said she really had no reaction. She was like, okay. I thought he was on the road, but I guess not. I mean, what's the other reaction to have, though? Like, oh, my God, he was in with his own stuff? I mean, well, if you're going to try to say you didn't do it, you really should. I don't know.

Or you go, that's right, because I put him there because that bastard you know what i mean there's yeah okay isn't the reaction though no that's not it no that's not it whatever she didn't think that through i don't think so they go well since we did find him and you were like 30 feet away and saying we shouldn't look in the box we assume you might have some answers so you know you know, what maybe happened here? Now she changes her story again. There's no dog. There's no any of that stuff. Now she's...

Throat's intact. Yes, he's got 10 bullets in him, though. That's the problem. Oh, dear Lord. He's got five in his torso and five in his head is the issue. 10 shots. 10 shots he's been. And we'll get to his autopsy in a second here.

But they said now her story changes and she said she was forced to shoot Ray in self-defense. Oh. That's what happened. Yeah. The detective said she began to explain that there were instances of abuse that this had begun in Florida and wound up here.

And they said she kind of quickly glossed over the actual shooting of Ray and went right to why she had to do it. Which, whenever that happens in an interrogation, that's usually a bad sign when people do that because they'll tell you about the shooting and what happened because you're asking rather than trying to justify it.

You know what I mean? Even if there is a justification, people will, they won't start with that. That's not what they do. That's not what innocent people do. So they record an interview with her on the property and she said – and we'll get to that. She said that Ray has been physically abusive for years, tried to force sex on her several times in the days leading up to the shooting. They also recover – she has two different cell phones 38 handgun which were by

the way also in the uh in the box both in there yeah 38 caliber handgun ziploc bag containing the ammunition and spent and spent shell casings and everything else um so she shot him like we said five times in the torso then five times in the head with a.38. She said this was in fear of her life. She said she did this. She shot him five times in the torso with a.38, walked clear across the trailer, passed the front door to the other side of the trailer, far side of the trailer, emptied the gun, reloaded it, then walked back across the trailer, passed the front door again into the bedroom,

and shot him five times in the head in self-defense. And he never left the bedroom. Self-defense is like you got no way out, right? Yeah. You're cornered. You're pinned in a corner. You got to lash out. Yeah.

You shoot five, and then you bolt for the door. Yeah. You do what you're trained to do in your cowboy quick-action shooting shit, and then you fucking take off. Get out the door yeah you know you do your what you're trained to do in your cowboy quick action shooting shit and pop up and then you fucking take off get out the door and run yeah you get away from it you don't go reload and come back if you have time to do that she had time to eat a bowl of apple jacks like she could have done anything she wanted to so she did all that she placed the empty cartridges in a plastic sandwich bag placed placed the gun in a small bag, dragged Raymond's body out of the trailer, put it in a large metal storage box that had belonged

to Raymond. Then she removed the sheets and blankets and cut out portions of the carpet where Raymond's body had stained it. This is what Gacy did. This is like crazy. Cut out portions of the carpet? The carpet where he bled to death on it. portions of the carpet the carpet where he bled to death on it she packed the carpet pieces sheets blankets her sweatshirt cleaning supplies everything into garbage bags placed them into

the box with ray's body then locked the box with one fucking padlock yeah used farm equipment to move the box 30 feet from the trailer start up the tractor start up the trackved it 30 feet from the trailer and went, that ought to do it. We'll never find him there. Man, you're afraid for your life. You do some wild shit. It's crazy. It's insane how quickly that happens. By the way, she did all of this.

I don't know if you noticed the date or not, but she did all of this on the 12th anniversary of Maggie's death. Oh, is that right? Yep. Yep. Keep that in mind. And we're we're going to talk about that at the end a little bit and just talk about whether that could be i don't know if he was sad and that pissed her off or i don't know what's going on about it that is fascinating that is extra and that's a

fact that we did not do for the live shows at all there's a lot of facts that we the live shows have to be quicker and you know there's whatever there's a crowd involved facts that we, the live shows have to be quicker and, you know, there's whatever, there's a crowd involved. So we can't give the entire everything. So it's kind of, you know, when we do it. They died on the same day. Same fucking day. 12 years apart. Yeah.

Wow. 12 years. The deputy coroner for the Hamilton County Coroner's Office, who performed the autopsy, testified that Raymond was shot five times in the head with four bullets entering the back of the head and one entering the left temple. None of those five bullets exited Raymond's head because her guns, all of them are the cowboy quick shooting kind. They're a slower shot. They don't have a lower velocity slug. So they don't go through and through. They get stuck in you, which is bad.

That's not good. You'd rather have it come out. So they also said that, yeah, entered the back of the head. One left temple. Five. None of them left. They also said most of the time the gunshot wound to the head would make someone instantly unresponsive. They also recovered five bullets from the torso.

He'd been shot twice in the back with the trajectory moving from back to front and downward. Downward's important, by the way. Yeah, I mean, she's elevated. Something. So the three bullets entered the left side of his torso, one of those having first passed through his left arm. So you think about how that's going. OK. They opined here, the medical examiner opined that the gunshot wounds to the torso would not have been instantaneously fatal. And although the time of survivability would vary from person to person, generally a person would survive a matter of minutes and speech and movement could be possible.

That's important later. They said they were not able to determine in what order the 10 shots occurred. Generally, a person would survive a matter of minutes, and speech and movement could be possible. That's important later. They said they were not able to determine in what order the 10 shots occurred. He ultimately died from multiple injuries to the brain, lungs, diaphragm, and other organs. I mean, 10 shots with 38 all over you. Just tore him apart. Shredded him. Swiss cheesed his fucking insides, basically. Yeah, no shit.

Swiss cheesed his fucking insides. Yeah. So during this, they they're going to ask her, give an audio recorded statement. Obviously here she admitted she shot Raymond, but she said it was self-defense. Right. She says, quote, he walked around naked, slept naked, walked around naked all the time. Just naked, naked, naked. OK, he's pulling me to him. Walked around naked all the time. Just naked, naked, naked. Okay. He's pulling me to him.

He's like, quote, let's go lay down. That's what he says. He's trying to force himself on me. I don't want this, but I don't know what to do. She said that every time she would refuse him, Ray would retaliate. She said he'd come up behind me and put his arm around my neck and he was squeezing me incredibly hard. I couldn't breathe. She said that she liked to sleep on the living room couch alone and that led to confrontation as well.

She said, quote, he came in and he laid right on top of me. He had his forearm pressed against my neck, pushing on me. And I was like, what are you doing? Kind of gasping for air. And he's like, I just wanted to hug you. Yeah. Quote,

you don't hug people with your arm in their throat like that. She says. That's true. Yeah. She's got a point there. She's saying something truthful at the moment. Totally. So she told police that on the day this happened,

she woke up around 6 a.m. And she had to use the bathroom in the master bedroom and Ray was sleeping. So she said she was going to sneak in there, tiptoe in, use the bathroom and try to sneak out, but not wake him up, basically, because obviously he'll jump up with his dick out and attack her. Yeah, he'll try to hug her wrong. Yeah, we're going to lay down. So she said she went to do that as she was walking into the bathroom, just at 6 a.m. with sleep in your eyes as you're just trying. You know, that 6 a.m. pee is not a real alert when that's going on.

Only thing you're concerned of is the pain in your kidneys. Oh, God, make it stop. She said that as she went in, she did notice that he had a locked, cocked, and ready-to-fire revolver on the nightstand between the bed and the bathroom. Did you notice that? She did a quick inventory. No, I assume it's not. The lights aren't on in there probably if it's 6 a.m. and he's sleeping. Curtains are drawn.

You're really examining. It's not a quick tiptoe. The only inventory I'm concerned with is the uh probably 18 ounces of urine that i need to get rid of right now can i get the lid up yes good i'm in i can do this if not i'm pissing in the tub so uh locked and ready to go okay let me note that as i pee so she said she peed and then she left the bathroom and as she tried to sneak out, she bumped into Raymond and he was standing there. Oh, there he is. Ready to go.

And she's bumped into him and he just looked at her and said, I'm going to kill you. You need to die. Yeah. Out of nowhere. She said that she was in fear for her life. Yeah. I mean, the legal definition of I was in fear for my life. Yeah.

I mean, the legal definition of I was in fear for my life. She said as she turned her body, Raymond fell onto the bed because the back of his legs were leaning against the bed. So if you lean with the back of your knees against the bed, a toddler could push you and you'll fall onto the bed. So she said I could easily knock him down. So she knocked him down. He fell onto the bed but then lunged toward her. Yeah. It's at that time, she said.

The springs will push you back. Yeah, she bounced right back up again. It's at that. You've seen like wrestling, the ropes. Yeah. It's one of those things. You bounce right off them. She said at that point, she grabbed the revolver and without thinking, just buried five into him, just like cowboy action style.

Wow. Five in the torso. So smoke in the air and everything. She said that didn't stop Ray. Really? Oh, no. He was still alive and moving. He was trying to move around.

So out of fear, she ran all the way to the other side of the trailer, passed the front door, emptied the gun, reloaded it, ran past the front door again, returned to Ray, and found him seated at the foot of the bed. Oh, now he's pissed. So again, instead of leaving, she said that she could see some blood on his left side, but she said that he again told her, you need to die, I'm going to kill you. I said this the first time, he didn't listen, so.

Think I'm kidding. Think I'm bullshitting, I'm not. And you. I've said this the first time. He didn't listen. So I think I'm getting, I think I'm bullshit and I'm not. And lunge toward her. So then she shot him five more times in the head. She had to, I had no choice. Yeah. And he slid to the floor and she's such a good shot that even a moving target

coming at her in a dark room, she can just not miss a five, all five right in the head, five in the back. And then the back of the head is pretty impressive too. She got him to come around. Yeah. To have someone lunge toward you and be able to somehow matrix around him and shoot him five times in the back of the head is pretty impressive athleticism.

She does make a horse dance, so she can do anything, really. She got some of those reframed Roger Rabbit bullets. Yeah, she did. Come on back. They spun around. I think that's one of the JFK bullets is involved in this thing here. Talk about magic. Jesus Christ.

So, yeah, that's what she said. He finally slid to the floor. Yeah. And so they said, okay, all right. So later on that day, they bring her back to the house, and they said, would you do us a favor? It's just real hard to get a sense of time and space here. So what if we just video you? You just reenact this for us and show us exactly what happened.

These video reenactments, by the way, are really helpful investigative tools if people will do them, if they're willing to do it. Because they haven't worked it all out spatially you know what i mean so yeah when they start doing it hypothetical inside their head yes and make it believable via words but we've got to actually make it happen show how it happened oh that doesn't if i fall he's not going to fall that way then how would i shoot him here none of it works out yeah to watch a person try to conform their story to this as it happens on the fly it's amazing anytime you get any videos you get to see of that try to watch them because it's really funny to watch people fall apart so she said again you know she tried to do this and so

she said quote so i'm tiptoeing this is her in the video demonstration so i picture so i'm tipped i picture her like a dressage horse prancing tiptoeing i'm being really quiet and ray gets up from the bed and he says i'm gonna kill you you need to die you know his catchphrase he had a t-shirt that said it and you sometimes he would just point to it but yeah a lot of times when he was naked walking around he had to say it no t-shirt no t-shirt. him on the bed like this and she said well he fell more on his right side actually totally on his right side which didn't make any sense to the way he was leaning which is why the detective went down the way he did which is not the way you'd go down she said his legs were up and as i as i fell on him my hand i don't know if you can see my hand was like this and motioning with her hand like it

was a gun there's a great shot. We've showed it in the live show of the detective sitting there on the edge of the bed pretending to be Ray and Danielle standing there pointing her fingers at him like a gun. It's fucking never. But if you're ever accused of anything, never do this because that screenshot in court will make you look so fucking guilty. It's not even funny. Even if you didn't do it. Yeah. Pointing a finger gun at a cop on a vet not good so she said that and at that moment she said she shot him five times took the bullets to the torso she said i don't even remember pulling the trigger

i don't remember pointing i don't remember hearing gunshots she said but the struggle continued she said as she she said that yeah she's he started to come after her, told her several times, I'm going to kill you, you need to die, like we said. So she doesn't remember. Later on, she remembered seeing blood on the back of his head. She said he started sliding down the bed. His legs were here on the side of the bed facing the wall. The detective says sitting and um she says yes and then i got really scared because he said i'm gonna kill you and he's

whispering yeah i'm gonna kill you you need to die she said that's when she ran out to the back bedroom and got five more bullets she said and i loaded the gun and i said what do i do this is her exact quote on the video and i loaded the gun and i said what do do I do? This is her exact quote on the video. And I loaded the gun and I said, what do I do? I'm scared to death. I'm in fear for my life. Yeah. I'm the exact legal definition of self-defense. I should probably kill him.

Wow. That's what she said in the video. She said he started to kind of crouch over and lean toward me when she got back to the room, I guess. So I put my hand out and he started to get up a little bit. But I don't remember pulling the trigger or hearing the gun. But I do remember hearing him going down. She said he collapsed to the bedroom floor dead after she shot him five more times in the head. Jesus.

Yeah. So this looks terrible based on everything she said. Real bad. Nothing lines up correctly. No. So the cops say, on everything she said. Real bad. Nothing lines up correctly. So the cops say, wow, we really got something here. Her lawyer disagrees, though. Really? Yeah, her lawyer, Delmar Weldon.

This guy, you got to have some serious balls old Delmar here to be saying some of the shit Delmar has to say in open court, man. I mean, it's got to be like Del. Yeah. He said, quote, she reenacted every step of that morning in the location where it occurred to the detectives. That is incredibly compelling evidence that she was telling the truth. Oh. Because she did a bad reenactment, you know. Yeah.

The volcano that exploded on those early morning hours, That's what led to Raymond attacking Danielle. And that's what forced Danielle to use lethal force to protect herself. Oh. Yeah. She also had sent a series of texts to her friend in Florida over the course of the weekend of the murder. On the day of the murder, she also told Angus McNasty that raymond was irate irate because she because she had been packing his things and told him to leave and because she sounded afraid angus suggested she contacted the police but she said no she refused to yeah wouldn't do it so i mean i don't know. Let's get back to sexting.

Yeah, let's get back to that. Oh, can you top that? So, yeah, so the medical examiner watched the video, the reenactment video, to see if the wounds line up and just see if everything there. The medical examiner was asked whether her version, quote, would be consistent with the injuries and entrance wounds that they saw, and she said that Green's scenario was, quote, not consistent with any of the injuries of the body. Matter of fact, it's fucking ridiculous. It was very silly.

The state, actually, based on the tracks of the bullets and everything else, and also based on the fact that they found the fucking bedspread out there full of bullet holes. The bedspread has a bunch of bullet holes in them, like close range bullet holes with burn marks around

them and shit. So their theory is that she shot him while he was sleeping in bed. Jesus Christ. They think she just came in and put five in his torso while he was sleeping and then he tried to get up like just out of a like a human reaction to try to stumble and then she went back, came in and emptied five in his torso while he was sleeping and then he tried to get up like just out of a like a human reaction to try to stumble and then she went back came in and emptied five in his head oh my god while he was like struggling gurgling and trying to breathe yep because several bullets

passed through both the sheet and comforter oh for christ's sake now she'll say once they say that she'll say well when he got up he had it wrapped around him oh because you know cowboys who are in a murderous rage they get a little chilly though they wrap the blanket around them when they get up to kill hey i'm gonna kill you you need to die as soon as i get a little warmer because it's is it chilly in here let's turn the heat up a bit if they haven't had their range coffee and bacon yeah they got a little it's a brisk chill yeah it's and late may too is known as a very chilly time always very cold in late may yeah so that's not great and also the detectives and the all the district attorney bring in a crime scene investigator

and talk to talk about blood spatter they testify that the he this guy testifies he observed expirated blood on the leg of a tv stand along the lower wall areas, which is not consistent to where she said he was. Expirated blood, by the way, is blood that comes out when there's an injury and it comes out of your mouth or throat. So it's blood you cough up. Forced out, yeah. Yeah, it mixes with saliva and little bubbles form on it. Like when it hits a surface, it'll be a little tiny blood and saliva bubble, which doesn't hold as a bubble. And the bubble pops.

And when it hits the surface, when it pops, it leaves little tiny blood rings. Little tiny rings with little tiny, tiny stuff around it because picture a little tiny bubble pop yeah yeah yeah that little pop so that's what you can see so that's how you can tell fucking rad it's fucking wild that's how you can tell it's not spatter that came out but actually expirated from the mouth which means their his mouth must have been somewhere in that region to get it there right and he was breathing at that point. And he was still breathing at that point. Exactly. So that says how that goes. So they said based on where he saw the blood, Raymond would have had to been lying down and coughing blood out.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is not what she says at all. She said he's sitting on the bed saying, I'm going to kill you. You need to die. Saying, I'm going to kill you. You need to die. So they also testified that some of the droplets found in the bedroom indicated that they were blood in flight, meaning it traveled a distance in a downward position.

Now, they argue that this guy who says the blood spatter stuff isn't qualified as a blood spatter expert. And, you know, he shouldn't be allowed to even testify. That's what they say. Just convincing the shit out of me. They said that he seems to know some stuff. I don't know if he just watched a few episodes of Dexter or what, but he knows something. It's pretty impressive. He said, although Sergeant Weigel, that's the blood spatter guy, through his work experience and blood spatter training, may have been qualified. This is what her lawyer said.

May have been qualified to collect and catalog evidence at the scene. a lawyer said may have been qualified to collect and catalog evidence at the scene. He was not qualified to interpret or attach meaning to the blood droplets found at the scene and to testify to those opinions at trial. Really? I mean, if you, if it's expirated,

it's expirated. And you know, I mean, they're just saying he shouldn't be allowed to say that. So, I mean, that's a fine argument. Uh,

the other, so the prosecutor goes, even if we gave you that, what about, what about this? What about this? And they find her internet searches. Oh, we'll give you the blood spatter shit. And they have the screenshots of her internet searches where she's in like in like a you know like a reddit type situation but

for like outdoor people and it says if you shot someone in the head with a 38 would they die instantly uh-huh would it be lights out and then she also did another search and asked people like you know would how many shots would it take to kill someone with a 38 like could i kill them pretty easy or how that would be well i mean based on like three days before the shooting yeah based on her uh field experience i'm gonna go with 10 shots and no it'll take a while it'll take a bit here yeah so uh not only that she also that weekend researched and read articles about how Gabrielle Giffords, the Arizona congresswoman who was shot in the face in that fucking parking lot in Tucson there, how she survived her injuries. Then in late April and again on the day of the shooting, she conducted Internet searches to learn how to change the bank into which social security benefits are deposited was there search about gab did gabby giffords

get shot terribly or is she an amazing human being yeah yeah jesus christ is she super human no shit so yeah oh my god uh yeah she's definitely arrested, obviously, here, we'll say, and taken in and all this type of thing. The daughter, Tracy Abbott, here, this is Ray's daughter, said, My heart was in pieces, and I just prayed that he didn't suffer. And I think she was probably, he seemed to suffer a little bit here. It sounds like it was a while, yeah. Her intended defense in court, because all that's pre-trial stuff do we let in the blood spatter evidence do we let in that her intended defense is a notice of affirmative

defense is asserting that she intended to pursue the defense of insanity at one point really she intended to pursue evidence that she acted in self-defense including evidence of domestic violence under the effects of the battery statute, often called the battered woman syndrome. So she's saying it was temporary insanity from being a battered woman, is what she said. Yeah. He beat me crazy and I murdered him. Now I'm good. Yep.

She said that Ray had abused her and that when she learned that he was trying to obtain a life insurance policy on her, she feared for her life and thought he planned to kill her. And then on the night in question, Raymond attacked her and she shot him in self-defense. That's what she said. That's her whole defense.

And the bottom base of this is going to be dueling doctors here. She's got Dr. Carla Fisher, who's a research psychologist, a law professor, and a domestic violence consultant. And Dr. Fisher talks to Danny here and talks to her about PTSD and has her do the self-reporting evaluation thing.

You know what I mean? So they said that she evaluated her by using the ABOC and the DSM 56 symptom inventory for PTSD. That's very technical shit for psychology, but if you know, if you're into that shit, you'll know what we're talking about. She opined that green suffered from PTSD resulting from years of abuse and that this history of abuse and PTSD caused her to have anxiety about her safety and the days leading up to the murder. She also stated that Danielle's PTSD symptoms resulted both from the past domestic violence

and from the trauma of killing Raymond. She said that Green entered a traumatized state when she encountered Raymond attacking her that night, and the doctor determined that after the shooting, Danny still believed that Ray posed a threat to her, which is why she padlocked the metal box and placed it 30 feet from the home because she was sure that he could rise from the box and get her again yeah she's swinging for the fucking fences man that's why she put her gun and ammo in with them with it too oh yeah to make sure so he remembers what i did yeah yeah because that's what i would do when he wakes up i want that he remembers what I did to him. Yeah. Because that's what I would do if I was a pregnant. When he wakes up, I want him to see what I did, and I'll do it again.

No shit. That's why. I mean, I'll maybe put all the evidence in there also. Yeah. Jesus Christ. The doctor concluded that Green did not plan on killing Raymond because those who plan to kill have rehearsed the event in their mind such that they are not traumatized by the killing itself. So there's that. So the judge is going to decide whether she can use that as a defense. The state brings in their doctor, Dr. Edward Connor. Yeah, he talks about he's a licensed psychologist. He notes the difference between psychology used in epidemiological psychology

as compared to clinical psychology and forensic psychology. He states that PTSD is a mental illness and that in Indiana, one must be a licensed psychologist to make a diagnosis of PTSD, which that other doctor isn't. He also testified that Dr. Fisher did not follow recognized protocols that would consider reliability and validity scales or use a psychometric-based assessment in order to assess if the person is malingering or embellishing. And that's a big deal. Whether it's just a self-reported thing or they have ones that it's very specific to see if you're lying about it. It all worked in there. And she said he said that the other doctor didn't do that.

So and also he's saying that doctor isn't even qualified to say what she just said. That's the other thing. The trial court finds that Dr. Fisher, the first doctor, is not licensed as a clinical or counseling psychologist, nor has she received training as a clinical or forensic psychologist. This doctor is a teacher, teaches as an adjunct professor, and independently offers what she characterizes not as a business or firm or practice, but as, quote, domestic violence consulting services. That's what she does.

I didn't even know that was a thing. I didn't know that was a thing either. So her, uh, yeah, her testimony was that she learned to diagnose PTSD from graduate students who are performing a study of the prevalence of PTSD in the community. She testified that she only diagnoses abuse victims who suffer from PTSD and would not feel comfortable diagnosing any other mental illness or PTSD

resulting from other causes. So she said, this is my area of expertise, is what she said. Very specific, yeah. She said in her deposition, I don't diagnose for the purpose of treatment like a clinical or counseling psychologist would do. I diagnose from a research epidemiological perspective, which means from a research perspective. Which means it doesn't have to be accurate.

Right. I'm doing this. I only do this in a way that helps people get away with murder. Well, that's just kind of saying I'm just fucking around. I don't do this professionally. I just dabble. You know, I treat this like people in Florida treat shooting clubs. That's how I treat this. Yeah, that's's all you walked in and saw like an easel and some paints are you a painter not professionally i just i mean i dabble you know having some fun yeah so she this doctor explained that in some cases she does not diagnose but provide self-reporting measures to provide a sort of self-assessment

self-assess ptsd is a self-assessment? Yeah. When specifically asked about whether she diagnoses someone for PTSD or rather only assesses them to see if they have symptoms, she said, quote, well, it's kind of the same thing. Well, not medically it's not. A diagnosis is very specific medically. The assessment is you go symptom by symptom and determine whether or not they have that symptom. And if and then there's a rubric essentially that says if you have enough symptoms in each category, that means you have the disorder. So to assess is sort of to diagnose at the same time.

My fucking head hurts. Yeah. She does acknowledge that her domestic violence evaluation is not a clinical psychologist evaluation. So, yeah, they go through all this. And after taking the matter under advisement, the trial court entered a written order granting the state's motion that she can't use this as a defense. PTSD. Yeah, we can't have this woman in here. Because that's her best.

Right. That's her best right and you could allow you could allow her but she's gonna get fucking trampled in court and that's gonna be terrible it'll be worse for yeah it's gonna look worse so they found that dr fisher had extensive experience as a research psychologist but that she had no experience or expertise as a clinical psychologist or forensic psychologist um yeah she said that every all the the way she diagnosed or assessed her was not done according to standards recognized by the scientific community and that the evaluation did not contain reliability measures and did not test for malingering, which would assess whether she was embellishing

or exaggerating. So they bring in witnesses here. One is three witnesses, Angus McNasty, the mail lady, and Danny's brother, Todd. Those are the three witnesses. Uh-oh. That's not good. Okay. Yeah, Todd, Todd Stanky is his name.

Yeah? Todd Stanky, he testified that Danny had shared that on one occasion he didn't see it. But Danny had told him about this years ago that on one occasion Ray Green had grabbed Danny's shirt and pushed her toward the wall. Yeah. Years ago at some point she said. OK. Another which you shouldn't do. I'm not saying that's okay i'm just saying

was a goat eating it i mean i i you know there's a lot of reasons for this you don't know but either way she told him that so she just i mean if your sister tells you someone's knocking around you believe her you know i'm gonna have a problem with that yeah definitely so another witness frank conway testified that he saw saw Raymond express anger one time. Okay. Not to Danny in a completely unrelated situation and actually in a way to defend Danny, as we'll talk about. Also, the Florida mail carrier testified that on two occasions she saw what Green thought maybe would have been a black eye on Danny's face. Yeah.

One time she had a splint on her finger too oh and she said what's wrong because she had an arm in her arm and a sling too once and danny told her that she fell off of horses you know you know because i'm teaching them to dance so i fall off once in a while not like that doesn't make sense she wasn't using that as like a i fell on the doorknob hit me thing no no no no that's what that's what that's what the mailman thinks the mail lady so there's also a guy who says that one time ray came over and demanded money for this guy owed danny money for work she did so ray came over to fucking collect it. And this guy said Ray was a big guy and I felt threatened by him. It was scary.

He came over and collected money for you owe my fucking wife money. That's when you get scary. How about that check? Yeah. Handed the fuck over. So there was also a lot of witnesses against the domestic violence claims, which you don't know what goes on in people's bedrooms at night and shit like that. You have no idea. But they brought in person after person who said that Ray was a gentle person, never saw any signs of abuse.

You know, his wife's family, his dead wife's family said that she never said he abused her and he was a gentle guy and treated her like gold for 40 years and all that sort of thing. You know, everything like that here. So she's going to appeal the decision that she can't use battered woman syndrome here. There's an appeal during the thing here. And they said the court affirmed its ruling, excluding Dr. Fisher's testimony, as to her proposed opinions and conclusions relating to a possible defense under battered wife syndrome. So that's how that goes. So during the trial here, finally, they get to the trial.

It's a two-week trial, by the way. Wow. Yes. They do have the Sergeant Weigel, the blood spatter guy. He testifies over repeated objections to his qualifications. testifies over repeated objections to his qualifications. You know, because they objected to her psychologist qualifications, and they're bringing in a blood spatter guy. So when elicited, had he been a crime scene investigator, Weigel said he'd been a crime

scene investigator for 10 years. He has experience processing crime scenes. He dealt with blood spatter. And in 2013, he received the required two weeks, which is 80 hours of training on blood spatter evidence. But as of the trial, has not taken the test to be certified. Oh, he's done all the qualifications. He just has to, yeah, just got to do the pop quiz. But he's not qualified.

He's not going to take the test. Good point. Yeah. The state asserted that it's not trying to have him testify as an expert, but rather as a skilled witness, which is a real. That's the difference between diagnosing and assessing. Oh, they're doing the exact same thing the defense did there. No, he's not professional. He's got some.

He's been doing it. He knows stuff. I wouldn't call him an expert. No. He's pretty good at it. He's skilled. Yeah. That's wild.

So he acknowledged to Sergeant Weigel that he was not yet qualified as an expert and testified that the Indiana State Police had two blood spatter experts on staff and they said that after he had viewed the scene of Raymond's shootings that the Dean

Marks, who's one of the State Police blood spatter experts said that he agreed with weigel's original findings so he said do you think it's this and the blood spatter expert said yes i do i agree oh so that's how it goes so they argued about that next up is the blankets they they bring in the sheet and comforter and say you know what up with that holes in that shit everywhere um the prosecutor said there were three bullet holes and this one actually went in there and out here it showed he was sleeping at the time fuck because none of them came out of him yeah they said that's

significant because she's claiming self-defense which is absolutely right they said it wouldn't be uncommon for something her lawyer said it wouldn't be uncommon for something. Her lawyer said it wouldn't be uncommon for someone to get out of bed and have a blanket around them. If they were in a murderous rage, it would. That would be uncommon. Sure would. Yeah. It would be weird. Because you have your hands together in front of you.

It's not an aggressive position. It's very. Clutching a blanket to your chest like an old lady. Yeah. How are you going to fight? I mean, you use your hands in a fight. That's what I mean. The prosecutor said, I think think that'd be highly unusual he's about to attack her he's lunging toward her wrapped in a heavy blanket right and um that's the her lawyer says that's

what happened um yep they also said how is it self-defense if you're cutting out carpet pieces putting a body in a box and trying to destroy and hide evidence. And then if she did kill him in self-defense, why didn't she immediately grab the phone and call fucking 911 and go, my husband tried to kill me and I killed her. She never called them ever. Never. Her lawyer said to second guess the things that happen in a moment like that, this life or death moment. It's unfair to say. Why wouldn't you do this?

Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you do that? She believed he could come back and get her, even after he was obviously dead. So she gave him an unloaded pistol. Unloaded pistol. So I think it was on Dateline or something. They said, so like some horror movie, he'd rise from the dead and come after her. And her lawyer said she was living in a horror movie. You get it.

You get it. You know. So glad you're here i wish you were one of the fucking jurors that'd be great angus mcnasty testifies oh boy that's great they got he's divorced by now by the way or in the middle of a divorce i believe while he's testifying he's reading text messages yeah no shit they asked they asked him did you know that the divorce between ray and danny was coming the financial reason divorce he said i knew that was coming yes she saw that as a way to get away from ray eventually she wanted a new life without ray so yes um george said though that

she he didn't like kill she didn't kill her husband to be with him that's not right you know that's that's crazy um then they asked george later on while she google searched what happens when you shoot a guy in the head with a 38 that doesn't look good yeah george said quote she's on a remote property you're a mile from the nearest person no one's gonna hear you scream so we talked about self-defense she was doing research on things that we had discussed oh he is saying bad things this is not helpful at all yeah research on things we discussed like you know you should keep a gun what is it should i keep a 38 in my house will that kill someone if i shoot them with it that's not how you do it you're pretty sure it would work i would think we premeditated this yeah it's just making it worse.

He said she sounded terrified at the time. Then he said, I told her to call the police. And do you know what she said to you should call the police? She said, I can't. I'm on the phone with you. The line's busy. Well, I'll hang up. No, no, that's okay.

Well, I'll hang up. No, no, that's okay. And then after the death, by the way, she told George, she didn't tell George he attacked me. She didn't tell Angus McNasty he attacked me. I had to shoot him. She told Angus the dog story. Wow. If she had told him that, that would have been a bolster to her case.

But she lied to him even. So, yeah. Wow. he also said that their relationship was deteriorating danny and ray but danny just needed help with her horses so yeah um that is a lot danielle had told angus mcnasty that ray didn't like not having any money and blamed her for that and felt she owed him after they moved to Florida and used up all of his money. Jesus. I guess that he would get more angry and she would get more scared is what she said. George said they had an argument in Florida and he grabbed her and threw her against the wall.

I think she truly feared Ray. But like I said, other friends said that is ridiculous. Never saw her with bruises, black eyes, never anything. She was out every day amongst people. Nobody ever saw her with anything. The defense says this, quote, saying the dog killed him, saying he's at work when clearly he's not. Having him in a box feet away from their home. These actions were so ridiculous.

Yeah. They're not the evidence of trying to hide the crime. These actions were so ridiculous. Yeah. They're not the evidence of trying to hide the crime. They're evidence of trauma. The balls, you have to say, to come out with that in a fucking court of law. Whole sweet. Swing, bada, bada. Wow. Oh, my God. Then in closing, he says, all of us have the right to use deadly force, not to retreat.

He said, and how she understood the anger and rage that was in Ray Green, you know, that's how she understood it. The defense asked the jury to look at her actions afterwards and ask if they make any sense. The body was put in a silver-colored box left 38 feet from the trailer. 38. 38 the trailer. 38. 38, exactly. When police came, she gave them permission to search all the property except for the box. Then he asked the jury if those actions made any sense. Does that make sense?

He said, does it make sense that this 49-year-old woman would be seduced by this 49-year-old and that she would tell him what to do does that make sense that she would do all of this put his body right there and not conceal him and not do anything quote why would she do that then she calls the victim's family and his work and tells them a lie a crazy story about a dog killing him that's what caused everybody including the police to stop listening to her when she tried to talk about the the. But still, she didn't leave. And a few days later, she tells the truth, talking to officers voluntarily, and then they charged her. She stays there. She stayed on the property. It doesn't make sense. She doesn't try to take it to a sinkhole. She doesn't bury the body. That doesn't make sense. Nor does calling her employer.

She doesn't bury the body. That doesn't make sense. Nor does calling her employer. You have to ask yourself if that's something someone who planned this would do. Would she be so piss poor at murder if she planned it? Really? It's like he's rattling off all the things she does and looking her square in the face and going, why did you do that? Yes.

He took all of the evidence of the prosecution and said yes she did all that stuff the only way you do that is if you were traumatized otherwise it makes no sense or just terrible at murder and didn't think for a second that anybody would suspect you that's what it seems like more to me and wants to make my life a living fucking hell yeah that's it and she probably figured his family wasn't around in indiana so they weren't gonna come looking for him she had a few days to figure it out get rid of this box and then just say he disappeared i don't know what happened to him weird wow so the verdict comes in eight hours of deliberation on this bad boy by the way um five men seven women on the jury and they decide she is guilty of murder.

Oh, boy. Yeah? Oh, yes. Guilty, guilty, guilty. Yeah. The prosecutor said that he choked out his last breath as his lungs filled with blood. Jesus. It's clear that this was planned because she was looking into how to defend herself, how to kill someone weeks before, talking about the searches.

Tracy said he was a very loving father and grandfather. He was a jokester, loved to tell jokes. He was not a monster. He was not a volcano. He was very loving, and everybody was his friend. And Betty, mom, says he was always a happy kid. Fell in love with horses early in his life. She said, I shut my eyes and I see him in that box.

It's no way for any man to go. So when they go to sentencing here, she can get anywhere from 45 to 65 years. Oh. Which is pretty good range, too, when it comes to getting out. So there's aggravating and mitigating the aggravating factors are it was cold-blooded yeah um pretty fucking heinous nasty tried to hide evidence all that sort of thing the mitigating factors are amazing her mitigating evidence is that she has no criminal history which the judge said the judge said her first criminal offense is murder.

So that really doesn't wash too well with me. I don't really care about it. It feels like the whole event was very heinous McNasty. It's not good at all. Yeah, this is definitely a McNasty event. The worst thing you can do to a person. Fucking awful. So the trial court found that the claim that she was a

victim of domestic abuse was not credible and they did not consider that as a mitigator as well they weren't allowed to consider that so the judge comes in you ma'am may fuck off 60 years in prison so not the max but pretty close to it it It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. So the reactions, the prosecutor said justice was served. She said Raymond Green was a loving son, father, grandfather and soldier who served his country during the Vietnam War. Raymond Green and his family received justice today. Her Delmar Weldon, the lawyer, said, quote, I believe the jury got it wrong.

It's still swinging. Yep. I believe Danielle Green is innocent. And they asked one of Danny's friends, a woman who goes by Carol in the 48 Hours or Dateline thing, and they said, do you think justice was served? And she said, by him being killed, yes. By her being in prison, no. And Tracy said, the nicest man that would do anything for anyone suffered execution style she is a monster yeah by the way where's

jazzy yeah can't can't leave this jazzy hanging loose here they never found jazzy which is good news in my opinion that's good news because if she killed jazzy jazzy'd be in that fucking box with ray and everything else too think about it if she could fit and they searched the entire property they searched everything they never found the fucking dog so the way i think it happened yeah is she probably let the dog run off and it's a farm area so this dog probably went to the next farm and we're just gonna have a fantasy that jazzy went to the next farm and they went what an adorable puppy and they took jazzy in and jazzy sat on a farm and ran through the fields until it inevitably had hip problems because it's a german shepherd and then it laid there and looked at the fields and loved life

and uh jazzy still She's still laying there today. Laying there today because, yeah, Jazzy's only about like 12 years old or something. Jazzy's surviving and just loving the fall breeze at the moment. So that's Jazzy. Now in prison, they said that since her arrest, she's been a model prisoner. The jail staff said that one lady lady bonnie schreiner leads a weekly bible study course and says that green attended every session dedicating her life to the lord while she was there and tutoring other prisoners as well what a gal so quickly with this appeal she appeals on the grounds of uh the court she argues the trial court erred when it determined that Dr. Fisher, her psychologist, was not a qualified expert.

Yeah, they said that Dr. Fisher testified twice in Indiana on state of mind and PTSD symptoms and how those symptoms impacted behavior. And so she should be able to volunteer, be able to testify for that. They found, though, that she's not licensed in anything, so that's a problem. And she said, I don't diagnose for the purpose of treatment like a clinical or counseling psychologist would do. I do it for more of a just kind of curiosity. You know, hobby. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing.

So they said, yeah, she can't present trauma stuff like that. Also, they bring up that the blood spatter guy was not qualified. Also, the position of the body. of the blood droplets on the lower part of the wall coupled with the expirated blood on the floor to which they testified seemed to show that Raymond had been lying down and rolled onto the floor when he died. So they said that this doesn't line up with her stuff so if they can get rid of him out of there and strike that then all of that's gone. Then she can win here. So

they said that the sergeant went outside of his bounds when he testified but he said he didn't testify that raymond was in bed and rolled onto the floor he testified that raymond put expirated blood right here that's it right that's all i don't know how he got there or why or whatever but at some point he coughed up blood and there's the fucking right there it is and it's nowhere near where she said it would be that's the problem as she said this this and this and they go well then why is he laying over here if you said he's on the other side of the room sitting up that doesn't fucking make any sense so green never alleged that raymond or green did not allege that raymond was never on the floor after he was shot and considerable forensic evidence showed that he was.

Furthermore, she states in her brief that as Raymond slid to the bed, he kept whispering that she needed to die as he was being dying himself. I'm going to kill you. Also, too long of a sentence. Oh, 65 is too or 60 is too much. Too much here. I'll read this from the court document turning to her character green lied to friends family and police after raymond's death concerning his whereabouts claiming uh among other things that their dog had killed raymond then after the police had located

the body she admitted to police that she had shot and killed raymond but provided a version that raymond was out of bed threatening to shoot her when the trial court found that not to be consistent with forensic evidence. So they said conclusive forensic evidence shows that the victim was in bed under a sheet and comforter when he was shot. That is the forensic done. No other reasonable explanation exists

since all shots remained in the victim's body and shots were determined to have passed through the sheet and comforter prior to striking the body. Green at no time exhibited remorse as she spoke to police and others. She has not shown that her character warrants revision of her sentence. We do not find her 60 year sentence inappropriate. Now, they said that they didn't consider her mitigating evidence that she was a victim of domestic abuse. And they said, well, we went through that. Sorry.

Then there was a juror issue, apparently a juror. One of the jurors here. Well, they said that the defense attorney sought a motion to investigate what he said was an apparent non-unanimous verdict by the juror. He based the allegations on a conversation one of the jurors had with a court staff member. So like triple hearsay, claiming the juror spoke of conditions that caused a non-unanimous verdict. Quote, the juror related there was yelling, there was screaming, there was duress. Now, the prosecutor said that the statements were inaccurate and what the yelling was about was about the juror. Quote, she didn't like the accommodations and she didn't like how long the trial was.

The juror complained the jury room was too small jurors didn't have enough breaks and the jurors didn't receive enough meals that's what the problem was not to rest about the case or anything she's hungry so that is denied on the appeal they're not getting that shit because the gal wanted pretzels because she wanted more snacks more snacks and you know what we should have netflix we should have netflix in the jury room right like we should be able to kick it so uh betty she said quote that's what i was praying for she took a very nice man out of this world and then told stories about him. And so she will remain in prison here until Jesus, who knows when she's up for parole, I think in like 40 years or something.

So at least till 2050 ish, she's going to be in there. She killed a man on his widow. On the anniversary. Unbelievable. I can't help but think maybe that had something to do with it like he brought it up he was sad or there was something and she couldn't there had to be something to do with that it just fucking had to be it's too much of a coincidence or she's just fucking evil and

was like i'm gonna line it up right on that same day really give tracy the what for like that's fucked up man certainly j so now that now Tracy if there's any silver lining to that at least Tracy only has to grieve one day one day it's not spread over the course of the year and it's not around the holidays which helps but still that's fucking brutal man so there you go everybody that is Dillsboro Indiana and if you had come to a live show this year one of some of the live shows we didn't play it at all the live shows you would have seen all the pictures that we were talking about here and you'd see the box and you would have seen danny you'd have seen jazzy you'd see ray i don't have a picture of ray wrestling an alligator but i showed you close to that yeah and

uh so that's why we say live shows are awesome because you can see everything so we hope you enjoyed that if you did tell the world about it get on whatever app you're listening on give us five stars fuck does it help i don't know why but it certainly does help so get on there and do that also listen to our other shows because that really helps us too crime and sports listen to we're doing an mma fighter right now named cedric marks it's a couple parter and this guy's like a straight serial killer so check him out super bad man very disturbing shit coming up so listen to that and also your stupid opinions oh yeah funnier than we could have possibly hoped for we knew it was gonna be good yeah but jesus christ is it good and uh people have just we've

gotten the best feedback about it so listen to your stupid opinions if you need a laugh on a monday morning it's every monday morning check that out listen shut up and give me murder.com is where you get tickets to the last live show of the year december the 2nd in dallas that's it so get in there there's only a few tickets left so get them right now big theater it's gonna be great yeah gonna be a fucking blast and we're leaving it all on the field because that's our last show of the year we're going home for the holidays after that so that's it'll all be out there and next month we should have uh possibly they'll be definitely announced and possibly on sale the 2024 dates so we're cooking guys not a lot of them so you got to get those tickets fast when they come out so check that out shut up and give me murder.com is where you do all of that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

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Top that. And then new ones every other week this week we're going to talk about a very tragic story you know when somebody you see a guy like strike out in the last strike of the world series and he walks off all sad or like a guy's in a mrs nick anderson missing those fucking yeah free throws back in the day and shit like that and you go man that's got to affect their personal life yeah and then it really doesn't you know what i mean fine career donnie moore wow exactly he fell apart and his whole life shattered it like a like a pane of glass after his big screw up on a big stage and then for it's

going to be a crazy story then for the small town murder show we're going to talk about the menendez brothers oh boy we dressed up as them now we got to talk about them so we'll get into that and also we have next couple weeks we have love after lock up coming up we're going to another prisoner dating game popping off pretty soon so all sorts of fun bonus stuff on the horizon personal ads you name it theme park disaster oh great at all so check all that out patreon.com slash crime and sports in addition to that, you're going to get a shout out where Jimmy will mispronounce your name, like we're going to do in just a second. But quickly

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jimmy hit me with the names of the people who would never ever ever murder their spouse and blame it on their sweet sweet adopted dog hit me with them now this week's executive producers are jordan bennett kyle norweg and jenniferchol. Thank you guys so much for doing what you do. We can't do it without you. And Simon becomes a citizen this week, I think Wednesday. I almost said of Canadia. Of Canadia, yes.

Canadian and Canada, yes. Other producers this week are Lisa G., Steve Schnell, Florida Evans, Dave Goldfarb, Jasmine Pretzel. Happy birthday, Jasmine. I don't think it's Pretzel. Oh, it's Pratzel. There it is. Do Pretzel.

No, she's our little Pretzel. It's all good. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, our Pretzel. Jasmine, you're a big sourdough this year. Oh, we love it. Peyton Meadows, Pussy Kicker from way back. What was that from?

Way back. That is, was that your stupid opinions, I think? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think it is. Pussy Kicker from way back. Was that your stupid opinions, I think? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think it is. Let's see. Can't confirm. All right. The Fratelli brothers, Janice Hill, Scarlett Horbis, and Estevez Jones, dressed to impress at a wedding. Sharon Jones and the Tartarian Empire.

What are they? What is that? I don't know. Something from Star Wars beats the shit out of me. One of those new Star Wars. Something we need to know all about. Some Mandalorian shit. I'm not sure.

Erica Bispochi and Seth Lacey. Betty Lichter. Nah. Maybe. Stephanie Johnson. Rukus Gomez. Angie with no last name. Kristen Sorrell. Nikki with no last name. Tyler Weingart. Christy Weigel. Buster Willems.

Willems. Hey, is that... No. Is that the cops in... Is that Willems? What was his name? Willems? It's Willems, Hey, is that? No. Is that the cops in the cop from? Is that Willems? What was his name? Is that Willems? It's Willems, isn't it? The cop from fucking The Simpsons. Isn't it Willems? Wiggum. Wiggum.

There it is. Elaine Miller-Bond, Laura Culp, Dominique Dow, I think. Joey Beers, Elizabeth Contreras-Valise, Joshua Willard. Garrett Wright. Cammy with no last name. Sharif Williamson.

Slade Hutcherson. Frank Morales. Amy Hintz. Jason Steele. Alexander Hopkins. Caleb Moulin. Nick the Nose. Robin Francis.

Hey, Robin. Jeff Hilton. Yeah, Hilton. Siobhan Mann. Lily with no last name. Turkey Rosanna. Cheryl Fee. Oh, boy, Kalinda, Kalinda Kinnaird, Hannah Jackson, Ian, Ian Blackburn.

Who would go by Ian? Whoever. English people. All right. Colleen Murphy, Leah with no last name, Thomas Deaton, Drew Strait, Suzanne Bassett, Lisa Kaminsky, Chris Drain, Jen B., Meg M., Kate with no last name, Ronnie Best, Valerie E., Gina Musselwhite, Crystal with no last name, Melanie M., Sarah Hanselik, Mike Huff, Jonathan Gilmore, Jerry Muller, Joshua Scranton, Catherine Nelson, Fetis, Fetis, Feets with no last name.

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I don't remember fucking his shit. I never liked it. Oh, there was above the law. And under siege money. Give me the under siege money. Against the siege, under your mom. Under your mom, I think, was his later work. Sandy with no last name.

Levi Reed, Deborah Peterson, Tiberius Grandchamp, Trey Patrick. Under siege on your mom. Those are the two things. Under siege on your mom. Sorry. And now it's high blood pressure and cholesterol and can't get on a horse i'm definitely not on top of a horse i'm under it all the time always i think that was the thing he got on the on horseback in new orleans and couldn't get down

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Kay. Mia Helene Bjorn. Chris Schmidt. Ox Baker's Eyebrows. Eric Borowitz. Erica Borowitz. Lisa Joseph. She donated twice. I imagine she's got a patron for somebody else. Thank you so much. B Method. Austin with no last name. Chuck Green. Bruce Currier. Robert Dobalina. James Richardson. Candace Walters. Daryl N. King. Holly McDonald. Kristen Grachalala, Amanda Narberg, Andrew Pearson, Todd Wall, Dennis with no last name, Ry with no last name, Patrick McHugh, Jason Tanoulis, Jennifer Simon, Louise Morrissey, Jared Stacey, John Spotswood, Brian Lally,

Ant Mann, Brandon Young, Roscoe in Australia, Steamed Rabbit, Chris Reese, Benjamin Weitzel, Weitzelini, Weitzelini, Weltsine, Hayley Haney, Hayley Haney, Hadgney. All right. Ariel B., Mike Juberger. That's not nice. Nick Wersba. It do be froggy. Vicky Welling. Audrey Barnes. Joanna. Noah

Juski. Noah Nagana. Laura Carafell. Abby DeShazo. Lindsay Anderson. Jason with no last name. Katajessa. Katajessa. Katajessa. Katajessa. I can't read thatesa. Katajesa. Katajesa. Katajesa. Katajesa. Katajesa. I can't read that shit.

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H. Schmidt. Taylor Anderson. Samantha the Eagle. No, it's just Samantha Eagle. Lorenda Richter. Samantha the Eagle. She really wants a nickname

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