Small Town Murder - #44 - A Morning Time Slaughter in Kenton, Delaware

Episode Date: November 15, 2017

This week, we look at the minuscule town of Kenton, Delaware, where a prison escape leads a heartless killer to unnecessary brutality, violence, and havoc that ends up all the way at the Supreme Court. Does this person escape their fate? Along the way, we find out that you don't want to speed in Kenton, that hot wiring cars must not be that hard, and how being a gang member can get you out of the death penalty!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Travel around the country. We don't care. Treat us like the Grateful Dead. Come see us, guys, please. Now let's get this show going. This week, we check out the minuscule town of Kenton, Delaware, where four escaped convicts wreaked havoc that reached all the way to the Supreme Court. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Bullseye again, my friend. So happy to be here. So happy. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Westman. Thank you folks so much for joining us. We're so excited for more murder. It sounds crazy to say, but it's true.

It's true. We get excited to come here and give you guys murder on a weekly basis. We enjoy it so, so much. I would like to thank everybody this week for their amazing outpouring of iTunes reviews. And your support has been amazing. And we really, really hope that you extend that support to our live show in Chicago on December the 14th. Please, two live shows.

Well, one Small Town Murder and one of our other podcasts, Crime and Sports. One night. Please, get your tickets. Sell those. Sell that place out and show them that you want to see live podcasts that you enjoy. Come to town. And not just live podcasts, but fucking our podcasts. Yes, that too.

Well, I'm trying to maybe if I encompass, if I pull everybody we can into our orbit. Fuck everybody else. Into our orbit. Maybe, maybe they will, you know, they'll help us too. I just want to see snow, man. That'll be nice, too. We'll see some snow. But thank you guys, like we said, for your iTunes reviews.

That's the lifeblood of a podcast, like we said. So iTunes, their funky algorithm, the way the charts work, those are weighted heavily. People like when you say funky algorithm. Funky algorithm. Well, it's true. It's what they have. I don't know. No one can figure that shit out.

People love it. No one can figure it out. but we know that that's something. So the reviews. So please, if you could, give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. It's really not for our ego. Just tell us whatever you want. Honestly. I'm into it. Like we've said before, and I enjoy it. Tell us your favorite cloud formation.

That's good to see on iTunes. That's fine. We'll be like, that's a pretty one. We like that too. Nobody will understand what the fuck it means. No one will know. Inside joke, it's fine. It doesn't matter. It really just helps on the business end. If you want to do more, like this amazing list of producers that we have at the end

of the show that is just a group of fantastic people that we love. An amazing amount of people that I can't pronounce their names. Oh, they'll butcher them horribly. Butcher them horribly. You can go to patreon.com slash crimeinsports. That's the one. That's our other podcast, so that's why it's called that, and we started that first. All that money goes to

us, so don't worry about that. If you want to do a one-time donation, you can do that also over at PayPal using our email address, which is crimeinsports at gmail.com. You can follow us on social media at Murdersmall on Twitter, facebook.com slash smalltownpod. If you want to check out there, there's links to the live shows that we have.

Also, a stand-up show in Detroit with Dan Cummins. And on February 18th, again, two live shows in Boston, Massachusetts at Laugh Boston. So get your tickets for that. The one in Detroit is at the Magic Bag, which looks like a bitchin' venue. That's going to be fun for stand-up and hopefully a podcast. It's like a rock and roll venue. Those tickets sell well. We'll see, though.

That doesn't matter. We have business to attend to. Jimmy Wisman. Boy, do we have business to attend to today. We have murder on our plates. All right. And it's a plate full of murder, boy. It's overflowing.

Yeah. It's one of those, it's hot. So when you carry it, it's like soup. Well, that lead-in was pretty fucking, that was a teaser. It's aflowing. It's one of those, it's hot. So when you carry it, it's like soup. Well, that lead-in was pretty fucking, that was a teaser. It's a crazy episode. It's a bunch of not good people. Let's just put it that way. Before we get to that, though, we do have to hit the disclaimer.

Have to do that. I have to tell you, it's a comedy podcast. What we say, the stories are real. Everything's real. The research is real. We promise you that. Everything is real. But we're going to make jokes. We're stand-up comics. We're going stories are real. Everything's real. The research is real. We promise you that. Everything is real. But we're going to make jokes.

We're stand up. We're stand up comics. We're going to make jokes. We do assure you and we promise that we never make jokes at the expense of the victims or the victims families. We say it over and over again. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. We don't do that. It's not.

We don't do horror. We have to say this just to inoculate ourselves against people going, I don't like that there was jokes in that podcast. I don't like that it was comedy. Well, guess what? It's comedy. So if you think that true crime and comedy never belong together, this probably isn't for you. If you want to hear something very serious or you want to hear he chopped her head off slowly. You want to hear it like that?

Fine dateline. Go ahead. That's fine. That's your problem. Knock yourself out. But that's not. Keith Morrison does an amazing job at narrating that horrible shit. But he's not funny. But he's not funny at all.

And we're going to horrify you and make you laugh. He's funny for the wrong reasons. Exactly. He's funny because his face looks like an old man's nutsack. That too. That too. But we're going to make you laugh and also we're going to shut up and give you murder here.

That's what we'll do. So let's do that here. Let's head on a trip, Jimmy. We were in Nebraska. We were out in the prairie there. It was a little bleak. Damn near Wyoming. Damn near Wyoming.

There's some pretty mountains, and people sent us lots of pretty mountains. That's fine. It's pretty from a distance on a picture. Like I said, when you're standing there, you're like, holy shit, what is there here? There's nothing. It's just landscape. I'm in a postcard. This is not good. There's somebody with one of those leather straps rubbing a knife up and down somewhere. You don't know where he is. He's in the hills. He's up in that plateau.

You don't see shit, and it's very, very scary. I agree with that, but we're going to head east this week, Jimmy. Head out east. We're going to head out almost to the Atlantic Ocean, all the way out there. We're going to Delaware. We're going to Kenton, Delaware, to be more specific. Delaware is a very tiny state on the East Coast. If you're about halfway, be it north and south, halfway down. Is it a weird-shaped state that looks kind of like a boot? It's kind of like a boot.

Yeah, you could say it like that. Like a boot if you broke your foot. Like a thick boot on the bottom with a thinner ankle on top. I would say, yeah, it's one of those. It's a broken foot boot. So if you're not from the States, that's where Delaware is because it's not like you would look at a map of the U.S. and go, let me point to Delaware because you wouldn't be able to see. You'd have to zoom in a little bit. You go, okay, over there next to Maryland.

I get it. All right. There it is. So this particular town in tiny, tiny Delaware is in the northwest part of the state. Okay. So it's over there. It's kind of like in the mid-ankle, I would say, a little up toward the – Up there near the knob?

The knob of the ankle? A little higher than that. Oh, okay. A little higher than that, where a teenage girl would get her first tattoo. Okay. You know what I mean? Somewhere in that region, I would say. That's something like –

There's a little dolphin in there. Somewhere right in there. Yeah, a dolphin, a rainbow,. That's something like... There's a little dolphin in there. Yeah, a dolphin, a rainbow, a butterfly or something. This town is marked with a rainbow with two clouds. That's right. You found it, Jimmy. That's perfect. It's like it's happy and it's Care Bears.

So it's something that a girl who just turned 18 might get if she was a little immature. And she still wanted to wear tall socks to hide it from Dad. Yeah, exactly. A little immature but had an ID and could get a tattoo. And she cried through all 17 minutes of getting it. Probably, probably. But now she's very thrilled with it. Oh, she's thrilled.

Now she's showing it off like a bastard. This particular town is 20 minutes outside of Dover, which is the capital. Capital, right, right. Nothing is more than too far outside of anything in this town. It's just in this state. It's just a small state. Everything's close. It doesn't take very long to drive across the state.

So it's there. This is 15 minutes from Mary Dell, Maryland. Oh, shit. Where we were a few episodes ago. And by the way, with that one, let's update real quick that Miss Barbara Ann Peterson died. Unfortunately, she died four days after release of that podcast. So I'm just thrilled that we were able to tell her story before she left. That was cool.

That was so kick-ass. What weird timing that was. That's very strange. She died of cancer. It's such a terribly sad thing. I feel like I killed her. I chose it and killed her. You probably did.

Damn it. That's out of my conscience now. Perfect. That's great. Now that I got that going on, 15 minutes to Mary Dell anyway. But rest in peace, Barbara. We'll miss you. Ah, Barbara, you poor lady.

Yeah, Barbara had it rough, man. She took some, but- One of the few murderers we were kind of like, oh. Yeah. Like, she killed him, but I mean, good God. Jesus, who wouldn't have? She was so fucked up, she thought- She had problems.

She thought her husband was gay. Oh, she thought that's- See, now we say that. She was so fucked up. She thought. She had problems. She thought her husband was gay. Oh, she thought that's. You see, now we say that. It's such a mess. It sounds horrible. You have to hear the whole thing. It's not a matter of. Yeah.

You have to listen to it. Go back and listen to Shit Dick and Mary Dell. Mary Dell, Maryland. I don't remember what episode it was, but check it out. It's there. It was more than that. It was released September 9th or 12th. It was like two months out. It's there. It was more than that. It was released September 9th or 12th. It was like two months ago.

Yeah. Yeah. It was like eight ago. It was a while ago. It's back there. This is in Kent County. Okay. So it's Kenton in Kent County.

Oh. So that's weird because last week we had Scotts Bluff and Scotts Bluff County. This week we have- They're really- They're not creative with the names here. They've ran out of shit? We done run out of shit. Sorry.

We came over from England and we had Kenton. That was just name everything. I don't know. Kent, part of Kent, something of Kent. Kentington, something. Just fucking Kent it up. Do it. Please.

There's a guy named Kent that was fucking great. We were very impressed with him. He had a wig and was very English. We're going to name everything after him. Zip code 19955. Area code 302. Watch out for those Delaware area codes here. It's a tiny town, extremely tiny.

It is.19 square miles. Is that even a town? It's a town, because there's nothing around it. Jesus. There's little tiny towns. All of these are like a grouping of little tiny towns. This is like four buildings. That's kind of what it is.

And then some houses right there and little outskirts. And so it was tough to find things for the real estate report. Oh, I'm sure. Let me tell you. And it's so small. We found a fucking murder there. Oh, you know, we did. We will find if someone died there.

God damn it. We'll sniff that shit out. At the hands of another. No slogan. OK. No town slogan. It's just too small for a slogan. But that's the slogan. Better than a slogan, we have a message from the mayor.

Oh. Okay. A personal message. He's just this nice looking older guy. Doesn't look like a politician at all. He's the mayor of, we'll tell you how small he is. He's probably not a politician. He's not.

It's just the most political guy in town. He's just some guy that lived there and was getting a haircut at the barbershop. Listen to Rush Limbaugh once. People were like, we need a mayor. He's like, he's halfway through his haircut. He's like, I'll do it. He wanders out halfway through. I'd like to be mayor. Just vote for Bob. Who cares? It's actually Howard Coleman.

Vote for Bob and his nice haircut. He'll get it finished. He promises. My campaign, first thing I will do as mayor is finish my haircut and not be an embarrassment to the people of Kenton. So the message from the mayor is, quote, I encourage you to take a close look at our town if you are relocating to our area. I am proud to say we continue to work together and enjoy the benefits of a small town.

Please feel free to join us at any of our community events you will find posted on our website. We'll talk about those later. Post it on our website. We'll talk about those later. I am proud to be your mayor, and I would encourage you to let me know if there's any way myself and town council could be of any assistance to you. Our town hall is not open for public office hours because it's too tiny. So feel free to contact me directly via email if you want to do that. Email me if you need me. He's the only mayor in this entire country that can just take an email.

He could, too, with the amount of people. It is mayorofkentonatcomcast.net. There you go. So he just had like a regular, like a house internet subscription. An email that goes to the next guy also. He doesn't have a.gov email address at all. Is it a.com? It's a.net.

Oh, Jesus. .net. Comcast.net, was that it? Comcast, yeah. So he's got the cable company email. That's what I mean. It's just like your house. That's depressing.

He's like, I'll just put it on my house bill at home. I'll just add an extra line, and that's fine. It's Sincerely Mayor Howard Coleman, who sounds like a hell of a nice guy. They should put that shit right under Welcome to fucking, what is the town name again? Kenton. Welcome to Kenton, and then all of those words. All of that. Just a big sign, a little, you You got to pull over to stop and see.

It's the whole thing. That's awful. So the history of this town here, it's a crossroads. They say that everywhere on the town website, everything. And you can see it. It's just where roads cross. So they put a town up. They were like, oh, fuck it.

We need to have, might as well put like a store here or something. It's a crossroads. It's literally two roads crossing. It is. Route 42 and Route 300. That's it. That's how two roads crossing. It is. It is Route 42 and Route 300. That's it. That's how you divide it up and that's Kenton is right there. It was first laid out in 1796.

So again, an old town. We're going back to these East Coast towns are always very old. By a guy named Philip Lewis. He's a guy who started to acquire property in the area in about 1790. The community was first known as Grog Town, which I'm glad they changed the name because that's terrible. Then Lewis Crossroads

because everybody's got to try to name the shit after themselves. We've seen that in every town we've gone. Whoever's there, they're like, let's just name it after me. What do you say? I'm the guy. No ego here. You know, 1806 they said, no, we're going with Kenton. You guys, I can see it like out of the corner. Nah, Lewis, you calm down. Chill out, Lewis.

Relax, okay? We're going with, yeah, that guy in England of the corner. Nah, Lewis, you calm down. Look. Chill out, Lewis. Relax, okay? We're going with, yeah, that guy in England with the wig, we're going with him. Did you hear what he was screaming in the fucking pub last night? We can't name this place after him. You're a jerk-off. Let's just say that, and we're not doing this with you. Sorry about that. Very boring shit here.

Very boring. It's all drab. So boring, there's Amish. Oh, shit. There's Amish nearby. That's how boring it is. People just sitting there staring at a wall at night. People with no electricity. It's home to an Amish. There's Amish nearby. That's how boring it is. People just sitting there staring at a wall at night. People with no electricity. It's home to an Amish community.

It's just west of Dover, which isn't far from here. It's about 1,200 to 1,500 people in the Amish community, which is insane. Every September the Amish Country Bike Tour is one of the largest cycling events in Delaware. So get on that. No, thank you. Imagine if you're

Amish and you're sitting there and there's just a bunch of dick bags driving through on bicycles from the suburbs. Here they come again. You think they're attacking probably. You don't know. They're like, oh, they have their conveyances out. You don't even think of cars. They're attacking us on our own grounds. Oh, no. They're taking over. They're taking our own methods against us. Motorless vehicles. No. They start throwing butter at us. We're done. This town is small, and this is just hilarious, and I have to share it with you.

There's this guy. He's from the town of Hartley. His name is Richard T. Kepfer, and he is fucking hilarious, this guy. He was recently got a ticket. This is July 15th, 2017. So recently he got a ticket in this town and just declared it a speed trap and started making, you know, FOIA requests, a federal, you know, the Information Act requests to get their information. What information did he want? He wanted to know how many tickets have been delivered in that area? Yeah, it turns out that he says, and he found in these documents, that more than $131,000 in traffic tickets were collected in 2016 in this town.

Oh, Jesus. That seems very, very excessive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 200 and something people can't afford to pay all that. That's a lot. No, this is people because it's a crossroad. Yeah, they're getting people going through it. It's a speed trap.

Bastards. If you live in Arizona, you know, heal a bend. That's what this is on the way to San Diego. It's the same thing here. There was a company there. It was called Ruse Foods that was there, and it was shuttered in 2014 by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. There's something wrong with it.

So they had to generate money another way. Let's just ticket these fuckers driving through. That's all it was. I guess they paid all the taxes. I don't know, but the town has hardly any revenue now because we'll find out how many people are there. People, population, 265. Very tiny, tiny town.

I mean, it's the same as it was in 1890 pretty much. It's easy to know everybody. Absolutely. You would. That's why you can email the mayor. It's just fine. Median age here, excessively young. And in these small towns, it skews so quickly.

I mean, if three people die and they have five births in a week, it throws the whole median age out of everywhere. Median age, though, is 24.5, which is super young. 37.4 is the national average, as we know. So that is very, very young. 37.4 is the national average, as we know. So that is very, very young. Again, you have out-of-whack stats like the male-female population. Male is almost 55% here, which usually it's females almost about 51%. Right.

So, you know, that sort of thing. There's only 72 households in this town. Out of 265 people. How many? 3.36 people per household, which is almost a full person more than the average. So there's more people crammed in. A couple parents and a kid on average. Yeah.

So it's a weird thing. And I think there's possibly some college people that live here too from around. I don't know because it's inexpensive. We'll find out. I'm not sure about that, though. That's just a guess. Married population is a little lower than usual, which with the younger age, you'd expect that. You know, that sort of thing.

That's normal. Never married is about normal, though. Widowed is normal. Divorced is a little higher than normal. But, I mean, stats, honestly, for a small town are pretty on par with everything else, except for single with children is 33.3%. Is that high? A third. Yeah, that's about more than twice is 33.3%. Is that high? A third. Yeah, that's more than twice the average.

Okay. So that's high for that. Other than that, it's pretty average. The race of this town, white, 68.60% white, which is not that much higher. It's about 63% normal. So that's normal. 2.89% black. Okay.

They've got a few black people in this tiny, tiny town, which honestly I wouldn't even expect. 0.0% Asian, obviously. There's not going to be any Asian people here at all. No, it's too small. They said, sorry, we don't have any. We got no need for you. We need at least 300 people before we start allowing Asians in. I feel like that's what they said. Sorry, guys. Jesus Christ. They're still worried about them attacking. It's still 1941 right there. Exactly. They're like, I don't know.

I don't trust you. But we're from China. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Don't care. I see those eyes. I see it. I know.

I know. You're all derivatives. I get it. Like Archie Bunker said, I'm not doing it. You're all derivatives. That's what he said. That's a long line. That's a great line.

It's a racist rant from Archie Bunker in 1973 that was funny about how ignorant it was. People now would be like, yeah, that's true. We've gone way backwards over here. We are for sure traveling backwards fast. Oh, fast. Quickly, quickly. Hispanic in this town, 25.21%. That's fascinating.

Which is high. It's about 17% on the average. So that's a lot higher. That's super interesting. And it was the same exact thing in Mary Dell, Maryland, if you remember. They had a huge population of Hispanic. Was it Guatemalan? I think it was Guatemalan that were there.

So it was that sort of thing. So I think it's only 15 minutes away, I'm sure. That's the reason there. Guatemalans were the toilet cleaners? Was that what I said? Yeah, I believe that's what it says in here. Andrew Jackson moment of the week. Right off the $20 bill in interior buds, everybody.

What an asshole I am. Excellent moment of the week. Right off the $20 bill and interior buds, everybody. What an asshole I am. 33.56% of the people are religious here, which is lower than the 50% average. About 10.69, almost 11% Catholic, which is about what you'd expect there. I don't know. Catholics, the Baptists of the Mid-Atlantic region, apparently, I guess. 0.11% Jewish, which is like literally three people.

That's a family. It sure is. And 0.20% Muslim. So that's like another family, maybe two families, two small families. We'll see. That's interesting. Not a lot there. Pretty kind of homogeneous when it comes to that sort of thing.

52% of the people here are registered Democrats, about 46% Republican in this town as far as the voting goes. Economy, the unemployment rate is right on par with the national average, about around 5%. Household income here, it's about $39,000, almost $40,000, which is about $14,000 below the national average of almost $54,000. The jobs here, it's weird because in a town like this, you don't have the full spectrum of jobs because there's just not enough people to do all those jobs. You could name 265

jobs. Not all these people are going to be employed. There's children, there's elderly, that sort of thing. So there's a lot of construction. Construction makes up way more than normal. I'll bet there is 265 jobs there, and there's probably not a duplicate of jobs there.

There's probably not two firemen. There's like a construction. There's probably a crew. There's one construction guy. There's a company. He's got two guys that he hires, those two Hispanic guys that are from the town. And they do different things. One guy's the paver, one guy's the digger.

That's it right there. That's it. Like normally it's about 6% construction. Here it's 28%. So that tells you manufacturing, it's higher. So it's kind of a blue-collar-y area. There isn't a whole lot in the way of white-collar-type jobs right in this little town, which it's a tiny town. There's not going to be any major financial firms or anything like that.

We talk about cost of living here. It's about $95 is the cost of living over, as we say, $100 being par. Housing, though, $69. So everything else is high. Groceries are high. Still 69 out of 100 is still a brutal. For that, yeah. That's steep.

That's a big helping of your paycheck going to your house. Median home cost is $129,000, which is about 186 nationally on average. Now, we have convinced you that you need to go to Kenton, Delaware, and you need to get there. Then we have for you the Kenton, Delaware Real Estate Report. That's so good. Let's get to it. All right. Let's see here.

We have a two-bedroom apartment on the average here. It's about $960, which is pretty much almost the national average. It's about $1,030, so pretty close. Not a lot of houses here, honestly, but I did find a few. Let's see here. I have a property. It's at 234 Ruse Lane, which is the name of that food company. So it's probably by an abandoned food warehouse, which is why it's been on this website for 663 days.

Holy shit. It's already been auctioned and not bought and things like that. It's damn near two years. That's right. It's listed for $196,831. Could not get any stats on it, though. It's a weird foreclosure. Bank-owned.

You can't get any stats just like they can't get a buyer. Exactly. It's bank-owned, and they're going to keep it for a while. I found one. This one's sale-pending, but keep an eye on it, folks. You never know. It could drop out, escrow, things like that. It's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,600-square-foot beauty up on High Street for $199,000.

Very nice, economical. And we have a three-bedroom, three-bath, 2,495-square-foot house, 46 East Commerce Street. It's a beauty here. $239,900, which for what it is, it's not that bad. That's not a terrible price. Things to do. You can get tickets for speeding and being on your cell phone. Just lots of tickets.

You can pay tickets. You can take your time submitting for information about tickets. You can do that for information. You can fight the town about tickets. You can email the mayor, Harold Coleman, and complain to him about tickets. At cox.net or whatever the shit. Comcast.net. We have a 4th of July parade every year.

It starts at about 10 a.m. One thing I found on the town website said it was posted in 2015, but it says it's a 2014 event that's still on their website. What? I don't understand. They posted it a year late and they still have it up. You know it's just Harold Coleman's not good on the way. He's the guy posting shit.

He posted it like a delayed post and like a scheduled post for a specific day and just didn't put the right year. He's texting with like his college-age daughter saying, how do I put text up on the website again? How do I do that? Can I put a picture? Oh, my God. Can you call GoDaddy for me because I can't do this. So what they have on that site is the annual shop with a cop initiative. No information of what that is.

Just apparently you go shopping with a cop in between him giving people tickets. Is that a cop getting kids school clothes? Or is that like you spending your money and buying the cop his gear? Literally that is the only goddamn thing it is. Just shop with a cop. I don't know if it's just go grocery shopping with him. He gets his stuff, you get your stuff, and then you say part ways. Nice to see you.

Nice to see you, Bob. Don't give me a ticket. Oh, God. Also, the annual Kenton Car Show, of course. You've got to have that, obviously. Door prizes, all sorts of... And you'll show off. Tony's Sausage House is going to be there.

Oh! Giving away door prizes. Giving away fucking sausages. I'm not kidding. There's Tony's Sausage House is going to be there. Oh. Giving away Dorp Rises. Giving away fucking sausages. I'm not kidding. There's Tony's Sausage House is giving away Dorp Rises. The best car, best in show, wins a 12-pack or wins a string of sausages. Wins a bulk of wieners. That's what you get.

Here's your wiener box. Enjoy. Congratulations on your Mustang. Here you go. There's Kraut on that. I hope you like it. I really like your GTO. Enjoy this shit.

Yeah, but don't eat it in the car that's messy now crime rate in this town we are concerned about is again weird because they basically had like i looked at different years they basically had zero crime reported in 2015 okay it's just like no crime amazing so the the rate is like if they had one thing happen one year it's really hard to say yeah but uh for whatever year this is that these stats are from, which is not 2015, obviously, it's about 25% above average for property crime and

murder, rape, robbery, assault, violent crime is the same 25%. So I bet that was the same incident or something like that. It's that sort of thing. That's hard to be dependent on in such a small town. It's a safe, little, nice small town where you can go shopping with a cop if he's not giving you a ticket. With nobody there.

With nobody there. You either have a great story about a cop by shopping with him or you fucking hate him. Constantly giving you tickets because you've lost your license due to back fees. Let's talk about some people that came to Kenton that weren't so nice. And I don't think they went shopping with a cop, although we wish they would have at some point here. Let's go back to December 1st, 1986. Pages of the calendar flipping by. We're flying back in time here.

Lightning flashing. 86, Back to the Future was a big hit last year. It's from 86? It's crazy. 86 we are. December 1st, 86. Hulk Hogan is ruling the world at this moment in time. Michael Jordan is just coming into his own.

Michael Jackson's still black. Oh, he's black. He's moonwalking. There's not even jokes about him molesting kids. No, nothing. No one even suspects it at all. They're just blown away by his fucking soldier uniform with those tassels on his shoulders. Eddie Murphy's making jokes about how slick he is being able to go to a white woman, Brooke Shields, at the Grammys and get away with that shit.

And that's awesome. And he's how Michael's fucking Brooke Shields. That was the joke then, not Michael's fucking Brooke Shields kid, which would have been the joke five years later. Michael's banging Brooke Shields' brother. Yeah, who's way younger. Right. He's like nine. They had him really late in life, parents.

Right. He's like nine. They had him really late in life, parents. So December 1st, 1986, between midnight and 2.30 a.m. I feel like they should have a better window on this time. Midnight and 2.30 a.m. So we got a two and a half hour window. Two and a half hour window. Four prisoners escape from the Delaware Correctional Center near Smyrna. Okay.

Smyrna. Is it with a Y? I think it's Smyrna. I'm I'm Smyrna. Smyrna. Is with a Y? I think it's Smyrna. That's what I'm... I'm going with Smyrna. I think that's true. It looks like Smyrna.

So if it's not, you guys are saying it wrong. Fuck you. Don't correct me. Anyway. That one time I corrected you, though, and said Llewellyn. It was nowhere near that. This looks like Smyrna, but you never know what these towns... There may be a silent M.

Eldorado look like Eldorado. Eldorado look like Eldorado. We've had this before. You never know. We get it. It's Lionel Lakes. Iowa wasn't Iowa. So, you know what? I'm sorry. I'm not doing this with these town names. You're doing it wrong. It's Smyrna, and I'm saying it like that.

So, four inmates escape. I feel like they should have a closer, tighter window on when four dangerous inmates escape, because... Tighter window on when you checked on them, then you found them missing. Well. What the fuck? Especially this group.

These guys aren't like, oh, he stole a car. And this guy, this is Richard M. Irwin, who's a 26-year-old convicted second-degree murderer. Irwin? Irwin is his last name. Mark A. McCoy, a 25-year-old convicted first-degree murderer. What the fuck? Raising the stakes. And Larry D. Nave, who's a 22-year-old convicted rapist, robber, burglar, and other string of charges.

What the fuck? A string of fuckery throughout the land that he proposed. So far, we're three for three. Three for three. And also a guy named David F. Dawson, who might be the biggest fuck-up of the group, minus the fact that he hasn't had a first degree murder conviction yet. But Dawson started being jailed in 1968 at the age of 11. Oh, boy.

So that is not, I'm sorry, 1966 at the age of 11 for burglary at 11. At 11. He's breaking into places at 11. Okay. First of all, if you catch an 11-year-old stealing, if an 11-year-old gets caught stealing, especially in the mid-60s, unless it's really aggressive or they stole something super expensive or they constantly have been, this is a kid that's been stealing every day from the place, you just call their parents and send them home. Like for a kid to be jailed for stealing shit at 11, you have to have no family and nobody to stick up for you and be, like, aggressively burglaring everything. Not just that, too. It's got to be, like, they knew that this path has been accelerating, and now it's come to this.

And they know the next step is, like, somebody's home and somebody gets hurt or somebody gets raped or somebody dies. Like, that's what's going to happen next. Because 11, I mean, that's not his. He didn't go in and steal a candy bar and they threw him in the pokey. That did not happen here, I don't think. He was committed to something called the Ferris School at age 13, which is not great. It's not the Ferris wheel. No, this is a juvenile detention center called the Ferris.

It sounds fun. It sounds great. I'm going to go to the Ferris School. Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Great movie. Ferris wheel. Ferris wheel called the Ferris. It sounds fun. It sounds great. I'm going to go to the Ferris School. Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Great movie. The Ferris Wheel. Ferris Wheel. Everything Ferris is great.

Anna Ferris is gorgeous. This is so much better than my school. She is Ferris, not Ferris, by the way. Whatever. Close enough. This sounds so much better than my school. It's named after some stuffy old senator or some bullshit like that. So he goes to the Ferris School.

Not as fun as he would have hoped. This is the first of five trips to that school. Jesus. He keeps this guy will mess up repeatedly and doubles down on it. The Ferris School will continue to not fix it. Oh, they don't fix anything at all. If anything, judging by the results, made it much, much worse. Much, much worse.

Yeah. Before he was even an adult, before he's even 18 he is charged with three escapes and two attempted escapes okay from all of these juvenile facilities okay so this is a kid this is a lifetime institutionalized person yeah and it's sad because we don't know what happened pre-age 11 that got him to the point of being a burglar at 11. Good point. I mean, that's a guy you you don't. There's not a kid out there who has parents that raise him or a good parent or somebody that raises them, keeps an eye on him, you know, watches out for them, cares about a fun thing, helps them with their homework, does shit like that.

And then the kid goes out and burglarizes to the point of jail at 11 years old. That's never fucking happened. That's never. You just don't. You don't just go off the rails in short circuit and just. At 11. There's no bad influence at 11. When they're 14, you could be the best parent in the world and you never know what's going on outside the house.

You know, it's less likely. But that generally happens because they get jacked up on drugs somewhere and now they've got to go get drugs. 11, how are you burglarizing things? Your parents should know where you are 24 hours a fucking day. So that means no one was watching you is what that means. So whatever.

So that's very sad. But it gets it gets worse here. He is just the whole process. He's not good with, you know, staying out of jail and doing the things he needs to do. So in 86, the man is 31 years old now. About that. And he's been in prison for so many years. He's been in prison a lot.

Back and forth throughout his life, constantly there. As an adult, he has 14 felony convictions. Sweet Pete. As an adult, pre-1986. At 31 years old. At 31 years old. He has how many? 14.

14. Those are adult felony convictions. That is not counting. That's after 18. That's not counting the five trips to the Ferris School, which didn't count getting jailed for burglary at 11, which didn't count. I mean, who knows what else he's getting into. I don't have 14 of anything, and I'm 36. That's what I mean, man.

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Wow. And when you look at this guy, he is the squirreliest, scummiest looking son of a bitch in the world. That's my favorite descriptive word of a convict. You try not to judge people based on appearance. You do. And especially with this. You can't. Because I mean we're talking about murder. So if you're going to call somebody a cold-blooded murder and say horrible things about them, make fun of them for an hour and 45 minutes

you can't just do it based on looks. This guy you can do it just based on looks. He has one of those goatees. You know those goatees that doesn't go from chin to chin. It's just in the middle, thin? One of those. What?

Like a strip? Like a strip in his chin, but it's long and scummy looking. Oh, no. And long, ratty, black hair. He looks like a blues guitarist? No, he looks like a roadie for a shitty blues band that goes out and runs out beforehand and goes, check, check, the mic's mic, one, two, the syllabus. He does that shit.

And then that's who he is, it's all gray and then he goes back and rapes a 15 year old who's in the front who wanted to go get backstage to see fog hat i feel like that's what happened here that's what happened here i feel like that's why does that one i have no idea where fog hat came from i've i don't know when i've ever thought of fog hat but that's a wow early 80s band that sounds terrible that he could be a all right if he was a grody for somebody good it would have taken them down fuck fog hat you know what i mean i don't want to take down van halen or something that's not fair to them take down poor bob seeger that's not right so uh yeah so this guy's a complete piece of shit yes uh there's a pre-trial thing in 77

uh he's he's being held in a pre-trial facility to like this has happened a ton of times and he escaped from that this is how many times we've heard that like four or five times i think that was the bundy escape was a pre-trial thing you got a guy that you suspect did something horrific yeah and you have lighter security on him there than when he's in jail? Courts aren't as secure as maximum security prisons. Yeah, good point. So if people work there and they go there for other things that aren't to be sent to the electric chair, so that helps. They're there because they didn't pay their child support.

Yeah, that happens. On furlough in 1983, for some reason, somebody would let this guy out on a one-day furlough and he was gone for four months. Took off. Was eventually recaptured. Brought back and it's like oh you again. I mean at that point why are you shocked that this guy's escaping at all? All you do is escape. You gotta lock him in a

tighter box here. Yeah for sure. And always have somebody watch him. How about that? I would say so. So these four all escape from between 1230 and between midnight and 230 in the morning on December 1st, 1986. You have McCoy, Irwin, and Knave. The first three we described.

Rapist, murder, first degree, second degree, all these guys. They steal a car and they drive north. Now, Dawson, he steals another car by himself. He is quite the prolific car thief as Dawson, too. He's a complete scumbag.

He's the type of guy that knows how to hotwire cars. Well, in 86, it was really easy to steal a car. It's so easy. If you were a criminal, how many people do you know can hotwire a car? I don't know. I can. You can hotwire? Well, you like cars and shit, though. Regular people don't walk around hotwiring cars.

You've put a car together before. Most people haven't. I don't know shit, though. Regular people. Yeah, I don't know many people that can. Don't walk around hot wiring cars. You've put a car together before. Most people haven't. I don't know shit about cars. That Chevy pickup truck has a spot in the column that if you just break that plastic piece off, you don't even have to put a key. You just push a lever down and it starts the fucking truck up. Yeah, I remember that for like five years in a row was the most stolen car in the Chevy Silverado or some shit like that.

Yeah, the Chevy, the Ford, and then the Honda Civic is just as easy. It's so simple. It's all right there on the column. That's your advice from the week of Small Town Murder. If you're going to steal, make sure it's a Chevy, a Ford, or a Honda Civic. Right there on the column. Everybody get that. All right.

There's a little lever right underneath the column. Our Small Town Murder public service announcement of the week. This is how you steal a car. Later on, we're going to tell you how to get out of a capital punishment jury selection. Oh, Christ. So that's good in case you ever get caught up in that. You're trapped on a jury. I'll tell you exactly how to get out of that.

This is all you have to say later on. So Dawson steals another car. He heads south. The other three jackasses head north. So we have just fuckery spreading north and south throughout Delaware. These poor people of Delaware. It's spreading fast. So the northbound gang here, these three idiots, McCoy, Irwin, and Knave, they steal a 65 Mustang.

So they're like, let's steal something. At least it's kind of cool. It's stolen from the northern part of the town of Smear, know where the prison is, at approximately 6.15 a.m. So they were gone a while before they actually stole the damn thing. They discover, the police end up discovering it later on, parked on the northbound shoulder of Route 13, which is about a mile and a half south of Fieldsboro. Dawson will later say, Dawson says they're all together, okay?

This is not the facts, but Dawson's later going to say they're all together at this point. And he says that they were driving north and their car broke down, the 65 Mustang, which they tend to do. And he said that they all decided to backtrack and go south because the car was headed north and that's where police would think they were going. Thrown off, going south. So in reality, these three kept going north on their own, and Dawson headed south on his

own. He was never with these three. But that's his story, and we'll find out why that's important that he says that they're all together all the time. Off of this vehicle, the 65 Mustang, the police recover a latent fingerprint, which was identified as belonging to McCoy, and also an address book belonging to Knave. You escape from fucking prison, steal a car, and you're leaving your address. How many possessions do you have?

You left with how many things? What, your address book and nothing else? And nothing. You're fucking prison. And apparently tools to hotwire shit. That's crazy, too. And tools to hotwire shit and your address book. You have like two items, and you forget one of them in the stolen car you leave behind.

It's not like you got a purse. This is why they were in prison in the first place. Yeah. If he had a purse, he might have remembered the goddamn purse you leave behind. It's not like he got a purse. This is why they were in prison in the first place. Yeah. If he had a purse, he might have remembered the goddamn purse at that point. Jesus Christ. Let's introduce a guy named Wilbert into the story. Wilbert. Wilbert.

With a T. With a T. Okay. W-I-L-B-E-R-T. Oh, boy. Wilbert. That is brutal. Wilbert's not a bad guy. No.

Or Wilbert's just an unfortunately named gentleman who operates the Fieldsboro service station. Yes. The gas station there. Yeah. Wilbert here at the gas station. You know he's got a name tag that says Wilbert. You know, stitched right into his shirt there. Yeah.

It's one of those garage shirts with the plate. It's like a patch. Yeah. Like Navin Johnson in The Jerk. Like Steve Martin. Navin right there. He hates these cans. He hates these cans. He hates these cans.

Subway. Now, this service station is located at the intersection of Route 13 and Noxon Town Road. This guy, Dill, well, not Dill, we're calling him Wilbert. Right. Wilbert gets to work at- He likes to be called Dill? No, I just wasn't going to call him by his last name because it's short. Oh, okay, what's his last name, Dill?

Dill. Oh, Wilbert Dill? Wilbert Dill is a terrible name. It sounds so bad. It's so hillbilly backwoods. Wilbert Dill here. Wilbert Dill. You can't say that, Wilbert Dill.

You have to say Wilbert Dill. Wilbert Dill. Yeah, that's true. That's how it comes out. You're right. It just falls right out of your mouth like that. That's brutal. I have to say it to myself.

That's tough. Poor Wilbert arrives for his terrible job at 5.45 a.m. That's the other thing. Wilbert D Wilbert arrives for his terrible job at 5.45 a.m. That's the other thing. Wilbert Dill, who works at a gas station at 5.45 a.m., I feel for this guy. But you know what? That's the much better shift at a gas station than the overnight, obviously. But that midday shift is fucked. It's always homeless people.

At least you can get some reading done in the overnight shift. This poor bastard has to deal with, I don't know, 200 people getting their coffee or whatever. It's going to be annoying. Coffee and cigarettes and all that sort of thing. So anyway, he sees three men standing by the station's bathrooms. Not four men, three men. He says that from the station's office there, he watched them attempt to enter vehicles which were parked at another business that was nearby.

So these guys are like checking doors. Just three guys wandering a parking lot trying to get into cars. Suspicious. You know what I mean? Obviously. Orange jumpsuits and shit. Well, he said they were. Dill says all three men were wearing similar blue clothing.

So they're wearing prison outfits. Prison gear. All the same shit. And they're pretty close to a prison. That seems, you know. Wilbert's never seen a prisoner before i feel like wilbert doesn't seem like he's seen a lot just anything only things you can see from the service station office window that's what he's seen i've seen that drive by one time that was pretty crazy that all he's ever seen yeah hey ever dilbert you ever watch that show no no i only see what goes on

outside the service station has never seen the wire i guarantee it no he's never seen the wild omar who yeah what man i know a man named omar the man does have to have a code i do agree with omar when it comes to that but i don't know nothing else about him so a woman named kathy uh kathy spence who is kn sister. I'm sure that reference was amazing right now. It was good. It really is. It's lost on you. It's lost on you. It's got to have a code. That's beginning to be my favorite thing every month is when HBO tells me that I need to

watch that goddamn show. You really fucking should at some point, goddammit. I should get a recompense. You know how many people we've made watch the live? Not that they need it, but I mean, Jesus, it's a lot. We've made a lot of people watch The Wire. Hundreds of thousands of people listen to this.

A lot of people watch The Goddamn Wire. They're revisiting The Wire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Checking it back out, getting the references. Boning up on their... I forgot, I'm Team Barksdale. That's right. Fuck Marlowe. Yeah. Fuck Marlowe. Yeah, no, I'm Team Barksdale. I don't like Stringer Bell, but God damn it.

God damn it. That Slim Charles is a team player. He's a team player. He'd be good in the clubhouse. If I have a sports team, I want Slim Charles on my team. Slim Charles will get rebounds. Slim Charles will dive into the first row. God damn it.

He's like Black Kurt Rambis. Oh, for fuck's sake. Metaphor basketball. Okay, let's keep going here. There's so much, so many layers to that. I knew that just by sitting here. There's a lot going on there. And I probably would have been dying.

That would have been our Xerox moment of this show. You would have loved it so much. I blew it. Oh, man. So they call up Nave's sister, Kathy Spence. They call her in the early morning hours from the pay phone outside of this gas station here. She says that she, you know, after that, she goes to the Fieldsboro station to give them clothes. Obviously, they have blue prison uniforms.

She brings them clothes to wear and then drives them away. Okay. She was with, according to her, was with Nave, Irwin, and McCoy all the way until 7 p.m. that evening. They rode around the back roads of the Newcastle area, and she said she never once saw Dawson. She said Dawson was not with them. There was three of them, and she never saw the guy. She knew they escaped with a fourth guy, but he went one way, they went the other. They never thought about it, okay?

So let's find out where Dawson might be. Now, heading south at the same time, well, this is all going on, heading north, sometime before 7.15 a.m. that morning, a 1979 Oldsmobile Starfire was stolen. Fuck, yeah. That is a shitbox right there, man. You know that thing rattles. You know it's huge, too. I don't even know what that car looks like. I've never seen one before.

I'm going to Google it, though. That's one of those cars that probably had like a three-year production window, and then they were like, this is terrible, and no one's buying it. We've sold 30 of these in three years. An Oldsmobile Starfire? Starfire. It's one of those where you shut the engine off, and then it taps and rattles and runs for like another 12 minutes, and you're like, I think something's wrong with the car.

I think it's got gremlins. What the fuck's going on? I'm sure this car rattles, but I'll tell you what, if it ain't one of the most amazing looking cars I've ever seen, it is fucking kick ass. It's a huge boat, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a 79 Oldsmobile.

It kind of looks almost like a- Calm down though. It's a big Oldsmobile from 79, so it's probably like a four cylinder. It probably had 108 horsepower and it was terrible. It would have been a straight six or some shit like that. Just a shit box. Okay, enough car talk here. It was a 79?

79 Starfire. Okay, so the one that I'm looking at is like a 60-something. Okay, yeah, way different. I know it got bigger and much uglier. And shittier. Yeah. So this car was stolen on the southern side of the town of Smyrna. So one stolen from the north side, one stolen from the south side.

They later found that on County Road 139 outside of Kenton. Now we come to Kenton. Kenton is just southwest of Smyrna, so it's pretty close to the prison. This car. Oh, James. Oh, James. It got real ugly. I'm sure.

It's horrific. It's horrible. It's not, no, it's not even big. It's a little shit box. It looks like a Chevette. Oh, they tried to make, oh, it's one of those. It's a compact one. It's ugly as fuck. Oh, those cars sucked. Yeah, It's a little shit box. It looks like a Chevette. Oh, they tried to make it. Oh, it's one of those. It's a compact one. It's ugly as fuck.

Oh, those cars sucked. Yeah, it's a piece of shit. It definitely ran for 15 minutes after you turned it off. Go on. So this car was seen between 6 and 6.30 a.m. on December 1st in the area. Now, this morning, early that morning, there's a couple named Frank and Dorothy Sini. Their home is burglarized. It is just located on County Road 168, about two miles southwest of Kenton, which is right about where the Oldsmobile Starfire was found.

Very much in the vicinity of their walking distance, we'll say here. in the vicinity of their walking distance, we'll say here. Mr. Sini says that he left work at about 5.30 a.m., and then Mrs. Sini left their home at 6.30 a.m., and when they came back about 3.30 p.m., Mrs. Sini noticed that items had been stolen from her house. They searched. They found that a men's size 48 black motorcycle jacket, like a leather jacket, bomber jacket, was missing,

several pocket watches, and a bunch of containers of, like, loose change, like a can of change, shit like that was taken. Also in the area is the home of Richard and Madeline Kisner. It's about a half mile from the Sini residence that was burglarized, okay? You'd have to have very few jackets to notice one stolen. I suppose, but if it's, like, your big leather jacket, you'd be like, what happened to that big leather jacket that I had? You know what I mean? I don't know that I would notice a fucking jacket gone.

I've got so many jackets. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have that many jackets. I'm assuming that they don't have a lot. That's my point. I would notice if you stole my leather jacket. I'd be like, where's my fucking leather jacket? There's not a lot of stuff in this house.

Probably not. Probably not. But either way way they notice the jacket they notice the pocket watches i don't know why they have four or five pocket watches but they have i want that life though to have to like walk through my house and be like that's gone that's gone that's gone there's so much shit in my fucking house position honestly i want it i don't think it is i want it simple life i'd like to have things to not notice that are missing, honestly. I'm done with this clutter. There's so much shit. I'm done with this clutter, damn it. Richard Kisner, he leaves for work at 7.30 a.m. that morning on December 1st.

He's got a 16-year-old son, Brian. He leaves for school just before Kisner leaves for work. Kisner, he leaves for work. When he leaves, his wife, his, Madeline, she's still home. Her car, an 86 Chrysler LeBaron is in the driveway there. And also a Ford pickup truck that was in the driveway. That's I guess they're, you know, they're let's take some shit to the dump. You gotta haul some shit.

You gotta go to Home Depot and get a shitload of plants this weekend. So we're doing that sort of thing. Can't put that in a fucking LeBaron. No, not at all. So Richard and Brian, the husband and the son here they're both gone uh madeline is 44 years old at the time her husband's the same age son 16 years old okay uh so they're there mrs kisner's still home uh madeline usually gets to her job at about 8 30 a.m uh she never reports for work oh no uh her friend and her co and a co-worker, Alice Holman, she says that she called Madeline repeatedly,

repeatedly about 8.45. That's how prompt she usually is. By 8.45, they were like blowing her phone up, like, what the hell is going on here? Then she called her again a bunch of times at 9 and then waited until about 1.15 and called again and again and again. She also phoned at about 3.40 p.m. and Brian answered. Brian said that his mother was sleeping and she thought she was sick. She's in her room and she's sleeping. He said he arrived home from school. He doesn't tell her this, but

he arrives home from school about between 3.30 and 3.40. So he just walked in the door and he's like, oh, she's in the bed sleeping. You know, I don't know. She must be sick or something. She's laying down. Yeah, I don't know. I just got home. I'm not going to wake her up and say, you know, this lady's on the phone here. It's not important. Whatever. So he said right away he came in to change his clothes after school. So that's why he said he walked. He walked past the parents room.

He saw his mother lying on the bed. She's wearing a red house coat, which she usually wears. It's her normal house coat. She said it appears she was asleep. He assumed she was. You didn't say house coat. They said it appears she was asleep. He assumed she was- You say house coat. They mean robe? Well, no.

House coat's a different thing than a robe. House coat, I don't know if that's an East Coast thing. I think so. Like an old ethnic women wear. I have no fucking idea what that is. My grandmother wore shit loads of house coats, man. Fuck yeah. House coat, like a mother.

She got home. House coat time. What the hell? Is it just a house coat? It's like a dress. It's like a dress. It's like a frumpy dress that you wear around the house. That's like, I guess, comfortable.

Nothing underneath? Like pajamas. I assume she had underwear on. I never checked. I never said. But I mean like you don't have like an outfit out underneath it. Hey grandma, what do you got under that house coat? What do you got? That house coat's looking pretty good. Hey, what do you got there? Is that what you're supposed to, just that?

You're not supposed to wear like a shirt and pants underneath? I mean, some people do, but not the old ladies. They have slippers, house coat. That's the standard. Slippers, giant panties, house coat. Old Italian lady. Some of them wear pantyhose with the house coat, which is hilarious, too. Old Jewish ladies, old Italian ladies.

That's what they do back there. I'm Googling what a house coat is now. I can't. That's funny that you don't know what a house coat is. Anybody I'm Googling what a house coat is now. I can't. That's funny that you don't know what a house coat is. Anybody who doesn't know what a house coat is, check out a house coat here. Oh, sweet Christ, that's a house coat? Yeah, it's like a little, like I said. My grandma wore those all the time.

That's what I mean. Yeah, that's what every grandmother wore. It's what they wear. Yeah, it's definitely weird socks, big fat panties, and that shit. Slippers. Slippers, yeah. So Brian thinks his mother's sick, just doesn shit. Slippers. Slippers. So Brian thinks his mother's sick and doesn't talk to her because she's sick. He says that after he got that phone call from the co-worker, from Holman, he went from the kitchen to the doorway of his parents' room.

And he called out to his mother, but she didn't say anything back. So he was just kind of standing there for a minute. And then he noticed that it looked like there was blood around his mother's head. So then he went into his room. He ran into his room. He's 16 years old. You know, whatever.

He saw blood, his mother with a bloody head. He ran into his room, got a knife, and called the police. He then ran outside, locked himself in the Ford pickup truck and waited for the cops. Which honestly is kind of a smart move. That's a neat little panic room in there.

You know what I mean? It's not too bad. And those old trucks, if there's anything near you that can stop a bullet best, it's probably that truck. And if anybody's trying to bash out the window, your neighbors will probably notice that. That's not going to go unnoticed. It's not going to be easy either. No, you screaming while somebody bashes out your window. I think the neighbors might peek out the window.

I think old Wilbert's going to see that through somebody bashes out your window. I think the neighbors might peek out the window. I think old Wilbert's going to see that through the service station window, possibly. I'm not sure. I'm not sure at all. So the police arrive. They go into the house, obviously. Brian says go in the house. Looks like my mother's got blood around her head.

They find Madeline. She is lying on the bed. She's in the red house coat, like we said. She has a nylon stocking around her neck. Oh, Jesus. And her hands have been bound behind her back with shoelaces. Oh, fuck. She's been gagged with a sock that was placed over her mouth and knotted behind her head. Okay.

And she had lacerations and cuts and stab wounds all over her from her forehead to her chest. It was 14 stab wounds in all. Jesus. Chest, neck, head, mostly in the chest, but a couple to the head and neck also. So just a brutal scene. Yeah. Brutal scene. And the kid's lucky he didn't see the front part of her.

Yeah. He saw her, you know, he saw her back. So, I mean, honestly, because I could have, no one wants to see their mother like that, especially not at 16. That's a, that'll fuck you up good. You end up like Dawson here. You know what I mean? No doubt.

You end up escaping mental institutions. So 5.30 p.m., Richard Kisner arrives home. The police are conducting their investigation. They're all in the house. He was asked to go inside and see if anything had been stolen from the house because they're trying to find motive or all of that. He says that the keys to the Chrysler LeBaron are missing and so is the car. So that's an obvious one. Well, gee, the car's not here.

I also noticed that they kept some cash on top of like the bedroom chest of drawers. People keep them, 50 bucks in the house or whatever. So that was missing. $200, $300, some shit like that. Yeah, just some extra, you know, whatever rainy day cash you keep up there. Christmas, whatever. Whatever comes up or whatever. You need cash for something quick.

There it is. There it is. So he said he couldn't remember whether his wife's purse was missing, but he did say that she always kept several $2 bills in her wallet. I know a lot of people that do. It's a weird little thing. I do, too. It's weird. So she kept several.

We have them. We fucking – it's so embarrassing. Whatever. I'm going to say it. We have a bunch of them in the closet that we have, the wife and I, have brushed like a thin glaze of like glitter glue on them. Yeah. And we give them as fucking tooth fairy money.

Okay, well, that's cool. Why is that embarrassing? You're giving it to children. That's embarrassing as shit that I'm macrame-ing fairy money. Okay, well, that's cool. Why is that embarrassing? You're giving it to children. That's embarrassing as shit that I'm macrame-ing fucking money. I thought you were going to say something way stupider than that. All right, well...

That's a nice, cute thing that you do for your kids to make them excited. I'm lying to... I use it to lie to my child. That's what I do. You're telling them that there's a tooth fairy

coming into the house to leave them money for their teeth. I'm continuing it. And I put it under their pillows and then I do it for Easter too. I guess the tooth fairy coming into the house to leave them money for their teeth. I'm continuing it. And I put it under their pillows, and then I do it for Easter, too. I guess the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny hang out and exchange currency. Yeah, they're super creepy, those two.

I'm sure they do. Yeah, exchange currency for favors, let's just say. It's not pretty. No one wants to be there for that. And their hands make it all glossy with glitter and shit. Gross. It's creepy. So, uh... Make it all glossy with glitter and shit. Gross. It's creepy. So. Just going to take a quick break from the show, everybody, to tell you a little more about thegreatcoursesplus.com.

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That's thegreatcoursesplus.com slash STM. And now back to the show. back to the show that night on december the 1st 86 at the zoo bar in milford delaware and this is a real classy establishment here a woman named patty elizabeth dennis uh patty dennis uh she says she met a man uh that uh fits dawson's description she She encountered him. He introduced himself. Jesus Christ, oh my. This is a, walk away, ladies. If a guy in a bar says this to you, just go, thanks, nice to meet you.

We're going to go now, and then leave, please. And ask to be escorted out so nobody jumps on you. He, not that you can't handle yourself, but this guy, you should probably have. He's an escaped fucking. Get five or six people to walk out with you, not just one person. It's creepy as shit. He introduces himself as Abaddon and told her that the name means, quote, one of Satan's disciples.

Holy shit. So that's his line. Yeah. That's his come on line. That's the type of bar this is. What up, girl? Yeah, my name means one of Satan's disciples. Holy shit.

She was at the bar with her roommate, Geraldine Ryan. There's a guy named Dennis and a guy named Ryan who they talked to. And he's an acquaintance of theirs, Abaddon here. And now Abaddon, they're all hanging out. And after a little while, they go over to the hideaway bar. And they say that Abaddon here, Abaddon was wearing a leather jacket that was way too big for him. Oh, like a size 48. Like a 48 for a squirrely little dude that is a roadie for Foghat.

You know what I mean? So they leave the hideaway. They go back to the zoo bar. At this point, Mr. Leather Jacket here, Abaddon, is asked to leave the bar because he's being an asshole, obviously. Sure. Because he's just that asshole. Because he's a bad dude. Do I need to say that it's Dawson?

It's definitely Dawson here. So, I mean, he's got the jacket, squirrely-looking asshole. So about 9.25 p.m., a Sergeant Keith Hudson of the Milford Police Department notices a person matching Dawson's description leaving the zoo bar. Hey, look, squirrely asshole in a giant jacket. He says that he saw the guy was about 5'10", weighed about 175 pounds, long hair, beard, black leather jacket, same type of hat that he, everything is, it matches. It's the guy. He says that he observed this guy leaving the bar because he's, you know, got to scope him out and call it in or whatever.

And the guy turned left at a street corner and disappeared. You know this guy. Dawson saw the cop and was like, I'm fucking hiding in somebody's shed or some shit like that. He's not going to walk down the street like nothing happened. Sergeant Hudson and another officer pursued him, never found him, though. They couldn't find him. What they did find nearby, though, right by the zoo bar in a parking lot, was Madeline Kisner's 1986 Chrysler LeBaron.

Oh, shit. That's a bad deal here. Inside the LeBaron, they recover a Herr's corn chip bag. He's eating corn chips. He gets out and he goes right to corn chips. Herr's? Like H-E-R-R-R-P-O-S-T-O-P-E-S. Yeah, it's an East Coast, Midwest brand.

Corn chips. So his breath stunk as shit. I mean, I'm sure he didn't bring a toothbrush out of prison. He's hitting on girls with corn chip breath. He's hitting on girls with corn chip beer and murder breath. That's real. I'm saying he's one of Satan's disciples. I'm a badden.

This is, wow. Yeah, you mean your breath is, sir. Jesus. Jesus Christ. They also, a cellophane wrapper from a cigarette, a pack of cigarettes was in the car. So he's one of those guys that takes the whole thing apart. Well, Dawson's fingerprints was found on all of this shit. Also, they found a postcard in the car.

And on the postcard, there's some writing, and it's signed Abaddon. Really? Yes, it is. It's signed Abaddon. That's how it's signed. He didn't even sign a real name. Nope, he signed. That's what he goes by.

That's fine. That's what he goes by. That's him. About an hour later, about 10.30 p.m., a trooper, Douglas Hudson, of the Delaware State Police, responds to a call of an accident. The accident involved a blue Ford LTD, which was driven into a ditch. Those things are monster cars. Oh, it's a beast. Yeah, it's a big cop car. Yeah, but they've got giant-ass motors. Oh, they're fast as shit.

Those things are ridiculous. They're fast as hell, yeah. It had extensive damage to the front quarter panel and the grill and the window and all that sort of thing, obviously. Now, they do some work on this. And in the middle of the night, they discover that that Ford LTD was stolen from a location in the vicinity of the Zubar. Okay. So Dawson, this is his next vehicle. He ditched the LeBaron, grabbed an LTD. Yeah, he grabbed that, which was smart. If you're going to drive around a dead woman's car, you might not want to do that. Okay. So Dawson, this is his next vehicle. He ditched the LeBaron, grabbed an LTD.

Yeah, he grabbed that, which was smart. If you're going to drive around a dead woman's car, you might not want to do that. Also, a hat similar or exactly like the one that Sergeant Hudson had seen Dawson wearing outside the bar was found inside the vehicle. Okay. The trail of breadcrumbs these fucking morons leave behind, I swear to God. Thank God they do or else nobody would ever get caught for anything. Nobody would ever get caught for shit. He's just a dipshit.

They would never have a goddamn drop of evidence if these people weren't just complete morons. So what they do is Trooper Hudson here starts a house-to-house search in that little area right around there for Dawson. What they end up doing here at about 525 a.m., so

this is, you know, 28 hours after they escaped or so, they find Dawson hiding on the floor of a Cadillac, which was parked about three-tenths of a mile from the accident scene of the last one. He's all bloody. He's got his heads cut up. He's essentially given up.

Well, yeah. He got in an accident. He's all fucked up. He's got blood all over him, all over his hands. And he just, he hid in the Cadillac. He was trying to sleep. He probably hasn't slept since they left the jail, too. And he's bleeding. It's the other thing. He's bleeding.

It's cold. He's like that Tsarnaev that tried to hide out in that boat while he was bleeding. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. But it's not working out for him here. So they take him, obviously. They grab him up, as you would him obviously. They grab him up as you would imagine here. They search him. He's wearing the jacket that's been stolen from the Sini's. Inside

they find four pocket watches that have been reported stolen by the Sini's. Also the currency a bunch of you know some change and shit and at least one two dollar bill. Also he's got in his possession. Hey that's a coincidence. Is it glitter all over? No it's not from your house so that's good. You're safe. Also, he's got in his possession. Hey, that's a coincidence. Is it glitter all over? No, it's not from your house.

So that's good. You're safe. Also, a cotton sock, which visually was the exact match to the pair of the sock that was used to gag Madeline Kaiser. Kisner, yes. He's an idiot. He was taken from his pocket. So he's like, let me get

all my incriminating evidence, all my murder tools. Put it all in this tools. Put it all in this jacket. Put it all in this jacket. And that's the thing you're going to find out, too. That's why he took the jacket. To hold all the shit. He makes the dumbest statement of all time later on, trying to explain this shit away. And then he says, I only stole the jacket

because it had pockets and zippers. I could put stuff in. Like, my murder tools that I could then be caught with. Once you crash and you're hiding out on the ground in the car, you got to say, they're looking for me. I don't have a good hiding spot at all. I'm in the floor of a car here. They're looking for all this shit that's on my person.

Maybe I should ditch this shit in case I get caught. Maybe that's a good idea. Nope, keeps it all on him. Nope, just keep it. I need these pocket watches and this sock. What do you need with one sock, dummy? Leaving the house at the end of the month. I just need one sock. All I need is this sock. And these pocket watches and this sock. What do you need with one sock, dummy? He's the jerk leaving the house at the end of the month. Yeah, I just need one sock.

All I need is this sock. And these pocket watches. All I need is these four pockets. All I need is this $2 bill. And this can of change. That's all I need. And I need something to hold this. So I need this jacket.

That's what this fucking moron does. Oh, this guy's an idiot. And this paddle ball. What the fuck are you doing jesus so you say so what a postcard signed a badden and uh you know he said that to that girl his name was a badden well when they tell you so maybe that could be she could be full of shit or who knows uh no they arrest him uh photographs taking of a giant tattoo across his stomach that says i'll give you one guess he A baton. A baton on his stomach. He got his nickname tattooed on his belly. Bet your ass he did.

And he's telling everybody. We'll find out why he has nicknames like this and everything. He's a member of a club, we'll say. Sure. Later on here. A terrible club. Yes, exactly. The autopsy is done.

It's Dr. Judith Tobin of the State Medical Examiner's Office. They do the autopsy. She says that Madeline had 12 stab wounds to the chest, a stab wound to the head, one that they can't tell if it was a stab or a cut or what it was to the neck, and attempted strangulation wounds to the neck, too. Tried to strangle her first. That's the thing, Jimmy. Tried to strangle her, realized, shit, it's hard to strangle people.

That's not easy. That takes a lot of work. Especially with a nylon thing, you really got to pull it tight. It's not like a piano wire or rope. She's fighting back. This isn't what I had in mind. Fuck, this has escalated beyond what I can control. And so I better stab the living shit out of her.

So that's what he does. This asshole stabs her up. She, the hemorrhage, there's a hemorrhage inside of her heart that ends up, you know, resulting from more than one of the stab wounds that causes her death. This poor woman here. Now, December 22nd, 86, they still haven't caught those other guys, by the way. Murderer, rapist, murderer. They're all out on the lam here.

They catch them in Arizona. Really? They got all the way across the fucking country. All the way to Arizona. Wow. They were caught. They had pistols, two pistols and a derringer. My God. And a bunch of knives when they were caught. They were hiding in a creek bed just

north of Interstate 15. I don't know. It's northwestern Arizona. Okay. Up near Williams. That's where it's at. It's up there near Williams. I know exactly where it is. They were taken to a command post up there.

They were positively ID'd through their tons of tattoos and scars and pictures. Where the hell were they going? Across the country. On back roads. Were they going to try to make it to fucking California? You got to stay off the interstate. Yeah, but are you going? Probably. Where are you going? California? California? Because they were Were they going to try to make it to fucking California? You got to stay off the interstate. Yeah, but are you going? Probably.

Where are you going? California? Or fucking, because they were way up there. As far away as you can get. But if you were escaping, you wouldn't go on the 40. You'd go on those back roads. You'd find a map and you'd go, I guess this connects through here. Fuck it, let's go.

Somehow we're getting there. Plus, then there's towns you could rob people along the way. And they're all the way. Yeah. It's a little bit easier here. These knives were not sent to Delaware until April of 87 because Arizona kept them just for

evidentiary purposes here. Nave and McCoy and Irwin all had a trial in 88 and then the state disposed of the knives, which Dawson is going to make a big deal out of later, the knives that they had because they were just knives that they had on them from there. The public defender's office wanted to examine the knives, but they had already been sold

at auction or destroyed. So who the hell knows where they are. But the physical and circumstantial evidence of witnesses and physical evidence gathered show that there's not one shred of evidence that Nave, McCoy or Irwin were ever in the Kisner's house. Never in the Kisner's house. So it's not possible really that any of these knives were the murder weapon, because that's what they're going to say later on.

You're going to buy something at auction that was a police evidence thing? I can't imagine buying that. They do that shit. I want nothing to do with that. I don't know if they don't tell you if this killed a family of four, or if they just go, here's a knife. The shotgun from In Cold Blood? I don't want that gun.

You don't know if it was just seized from a drug dealer's house or used to butcher a child. You have no fucking idea which one. I can't believe people are buying that shit. It's crazy, man. Now, here is Dawson's version of the events. Would you like to know what this idiot says? Kind of. Yeah.

So this is his version of events. I'll buzz through it as quick as I can, but it's so stupid. You have to know it in full, okay? He says they escaped. They stole a car by hot wiring it. It broke down, like I said. He said the other prisoners, the other three, went to make a phone call at the pay phone. That's how he's trying to reconcile why Wilbert didn't see him over there.

He said at that time, I went looking for another car to steal. So that's why they didn't see me here. He said, Larry Knave made the phone call, called his sister. He says his sister, Kathy, refused to pick them up. It's very important that she didn't pick them up because if she picked them up, then she didn't see him and they weren't together. So he has to say the whole time she's lying even though she is putting herself in the middle of a crime by saying that she picked up. She's incriminating the fuck out of herself. Yeah, she's saying,ating the fuck out of herself.

Yeah, she's saying, I just help these criminals escape. I'm aiding and abetting fugitives. And she's not going to lie just to put this guy in to get herself in trouble, too. So stupid of him saying that. Like I said, he said that we all decided it was best to backtrack here. So he said they stole another car, had the keys in it. They ditched the car on a back road and went on foot. They said while they were resting in the woods behind a couple houses, he decided to go see if he could get into the houses.

He said he stole about five pocket watches and coins and a black leather jacket. He said the only reason I took the jacket was because it had pockets and zippers. If we had to run, I wouldn't lose any of the items I had taken. And I was the only one to wear it. It wasn't wearing a prison coat. We ended up in another wooded area beside one in the house he said the kid has a car and a pickup truck

at the house he said he figured since he was wearing the jacket you know the non prison jacket and a leather hat so he looked like I don't know like the guy from fucking ACDC had a leather hat on and the singer guy. He was a leather hat well he wore a leather fucking hat like a 50's cab driver or some horse shit like that.

My dad rocks those, and I try to tell him to knock that shit off. It looks dumb. That is rough, man. With that bushy hair sticking out the backs and the sides. It's ridiculous. He said he was going to go to the house, knock on the doors. No one answered, so he started to look for a way into the house. He got to the back of the house.

He said there's a lady in the house standing in the kitchen. He asked her if he could into the house. He got to the back of the house. He said, there's a lady in the house standing in the kitchen. He asked her if he could use the phone. He said she opened the door, the sliding glass door, just enough to hand the phone to him. No one's opening their sliding glass door for this scumbag. Never. Never. Maybe she's really nice. I don't know.

Like I said, I've told you about my great grandmother. She opened the door for that person. So you never know. And she was 80 something. So whatever. She said, I tried to call an old, he said, I tried to call an old girlfriend, but I couldn't get an answer. Hey, escaped from prison, got my leather hat on. You up for a date?

What the fuck kind of call is that? Hey, it's Abaddon. Good morning. Hey, Abaddon here. So he said he handed the phone back and forced the sliding glass door open with his right hand and ran inside the house and grabbed the lady by the hair. He's admitting to this. He said, I told her who I was and that I wasn't going to harm her. I just wanted to get the keys to her car and some money.

She asked where the others were. I don't know how she would know there was others. How would she say that? Unless there was a report already. She might have heard it right when she woke up on the radio that there was a prison escape right nearby. That would be big news in a small town, I assume. He said, I told her they were outside in the woods.

She led the way to the bedroom and gave me a glass half full of coins. I told her I would have to tie her hands so we could get away and wait until she felt that we were far away before she called the cops. I was like, so I'm going to tie you up. And even if you get out, wait a minute. He said he tied her hands. She sat on the edge of the bed and asked what town he was in. She told him Kenton. He said he asked her a few more questions.

She looked very scared, and she looked very scared because she was looking toward the bedroom door, and he said he turned around, and there were the other three guys with just rage and murder in their eyes. Just vengeance. Absolutely, man. One of them, they were asking, did you find out where we are? Did you find out what town we're in? Someone wanted to know. He said someone wanted to know what to do with the lady. And I told them that she was tied up pretty good and to leave her alone. Finally, we decided I would go fill up the car with gas while they tied her feet to the bed. I'll go do that. You take 10 seconds to do that. I'm going to go 10 minutes down the road.

seconds to do that. I'm going to go 10 minutes down the road. They said they were afraid that if they went to the gas station, someone might recognize them and call the police. Like Wilbert. Yeah, like Wilbert. So only Dawson's going to go. He said he knew of the town. He'd been around there. He was afraid somebody would recognize him or the car, because it's her car, small town. If you knew of the town, why didn't you know you were there?

Well, once he found out, he's like, so maybe people might recognize me. So he said, I decided to go somewhere else. So there was a lot of time for them back at the house. He said, I went down to a town called Camden. I got back to the house and they weren't there anymore. The other three had left. No car, nothing. They're just gone.

Now it's just me in this giant coat full of shit. And he said, I found the dead. There's a lady dead on her bed. Oh, my God. Said she'd been stabbed. There was blood everywhere. Her bathrobe was pulled open. One of her breasts was showing.

He said, so the bottom of her bathrobe was pulled up and One of her breasts was showing. He said, so the bottom of her bathrobe was pulled up and she wasn't wearing any underwear. Jesus. He said, so I pulled her bathrobe down to cover what was showing because, you know, he wants to be respectful. Obviously, a bad is a very respectful young man to cover that tit. Oh, you got it. He said he walked by beside the bed and looked down at her. He said, my legs gave out. And I began I began crying when I looked at her and I told her, I'm really sorry, lady. And then he said, my legs gave out. And I began crying when I looked at her. And I told her, I'm really sorry, lady. And then he said, I should have never left her with them. Just this poor guy.

He was trying to be a shepherd. They were real animals. Trying to be a shepherd. But these three over here, these fucking guys. He said he went walking down the road. Went to see. He couldn't find the guys. He said that he just needed to get something to drink to figure out what to do and just get his head together, he said, because he kept seeing

that lady lying there the way he found her over and over again. He said, this is amazing. All the plans I had for escaping were no longer in my head. I had given a handwritten statement of what happened. And in that statement, I mentioned an attempt of rape on this lady. He said, the reason I gave that statement was because the way that I had found her with her bathrobe pulled up, I felt the others had raped her. But I had pulled the bathrobe down and didn't attempt to rape her, and I wanted to check to see if she'd been raped. I wanted them to check to see if she'd been raped. I think they're going to check that when they find her if she's dead like that. In his statement, did he say that he tried to rape her?

No, he said that one of them tried to rape her. And he thinks that because he found the bathrobe like that. He's trying to say that like she could have been raped for all I know. I wasn't there. It was just his way of doing that. He says, quote, if I knew she had, if I knew she had, they would find out I wasn't the one who raped her, but one or two or three of the others. That's what happened on December 1st, 1986. I pray for help every day, and I thank you so much for listening to my story.

You can get fucked, mister, because that's your story. Now let's get to the real story, back to exactly what happened, where he is indicted on January 5th, 1987, on 15 counts related to that December 1st day. Yeah, he pleads guilty to two of the counts. He pleads guilty to burglary and burglary in the first degree for the robbery of Frank and Dorothy Sini's shit because he

has no way to... You can't say you didn't do that. He's wearing the jacket. He's got all his shit. He had to say that. Plus, he was building the narrative that he was just going in looking for money instead. Right. I went there.

I didn't kill them. No one killed those two. Right. I went in the house. If I didn't kill them, then I clearly wouldn't. Why would I kill someone here? Yeah, that's what he's trying to do. This is also four counts of murder in the first degree, six counts of possession of

a deadly weapon during the commission of a felony, robbery in the first degree, burglary in the second degree, and possession of a deadly weapon by a prohibited person. Oh, Jesus. You know what those all add up to? Life. Capital fucking murder. They are going for the death penalty on this one. This is particularly bad.

And this is the type of guy where I think they look at and they go, yeah, there's not a lot of sympathy for this guy here. There's not a wiggle room, that's for sure. No need for this guy. He's one where you don't need him anymore. I think that's what they're looking at. You got out of prison unlawfully, first of all, and then committed this kind of stuff. This is insane.

We don't need you. Not at all. So his counsel files a pretrial motion for change of venue. He says extensive prejudicial pretrial publicity precluded anyone in the area in Kent County from being impartial. Obviously, can't do that at all. What they end up doing is they look at the articles, the articles that have been actually in the area and see what people might have been reading. Because this is 1986, 1987. You didn't have the Internet.

You had whatever newspaper came into your town, your local news. And then whatever was on national news. And this isn't going to make national news. It's not even going to make state level news. And national news was low back then, too. It wasn't. No, you had your nightly news, ABC, CBS, NBC, nightly news. CNN hadn't started yet.

No, Fox had just started, but not their insane news department. Not in the capacity that they're in now. They didn't have Fox News. It was just they played Married with Children and shit and reruns of things back then. That's all. Fucking The Simpsons. And The Simpsons and Tracy Ullman, actually, which had The Simpsons anyway. So he's that's your history overseas. That's your history, everybody of American news consumption in the 1980s. So what they said is they looked at the

news journal and the Delaware State News. They're the two major papers of general circulation in the county. They looked over the accounts and what they found was there was largely informational things. They said someone was murdered. There was not a lot of this guy did it, and he's a piece of shit. There was no profiles of this guy as like how horrible he is. This body was found. They said this person's a suspect, but this body was found.

The car was missing. The son came home, found her, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that sort of thing. So that motion was denied, and they keep doing it, too. Over the course of the trial, he keeps, over the course of the jury selection process, the defense keeps motioning for change of venue and is repeatedly denied. Good. Now, they have a motion pretrial that his defense, Dawson's defense counsel, learns that he is a member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

Not good. In jail. Not good. In jail. Not good at all. Okay, hence his name and hence swastika tattoos fucking all over him. Oh, for fuck's sake. Covered in swastikas, covered in all the just regular Aryan Brotherhood prison tat shit. Yeah, I mean, he's a accoutrement away of this fucking shit. He's more than initiated.

Yeah. He's involved. He has the name of his, he has the Aryan Brotherhood tattooed on him, which is a thing. Above and below is, he has a bunch of symbols. So, tons of swastikas, like I said, too. Bunch of them here. And also, he found out in his records that while he was in prison, he painted a giant swastika on his prison wall also. Just to let everybody know that these tattoos,

in case I'm not here so you guys can see me, check that out. Just see my wall. In case I'm in the shower, swastika, just so you know, Nazi thing going on here. That's who lives here, just in case you're wondering. So what he would do is... That's his one old buzzard and one cute chick live here, that sign that people put up in front of their house. That's the one right there for him. So the council's trying to get all of this testimony, anything regarding his membership to the Aryan Brotherhood thrown out is what they're trying to do. Anything, the Abaddon thing, the whole deal, they want that shit all thrown out. They keep making all these rulings. They cite a million different things that we could get into here. What they end up doing is they say, we're not throwing it out, but they're going to

ask prospective jurors if that would make them, you know, preclude them from being impartial. So they ask each juror, quote, in this case, there may be evidence relating to membership in an organization called the Aryan Brotherhood, a white supremacist group. Would this affect your ability to serve as a fair and impartial juror in this case? So they asked him that. Fuck yes. They tried to get his counsel indicated that he would like to have blacks, quote, blacks and Jews sitting on the jury, saying that sociologists have determined that these people

are the most compassionate and understanding and therefore would be inclined to acquit him or at least not give him the death penalty. Probably not. Yeah. He said most of these people would sociologically are percentage wise or against the imposition of the death penalty. So now they're looking for blacks and Jews. And what he's trying to do is he's trying to get the prosecution to use challenges to strike blacks and Jews because they don't want blacks and Jews on the jury. That's what he's trying to do.

It doesn't quite work here. By the way, how to get out of a capital jury. You don't want to serve on a death penalty jury? I don't blame you. I don't blame you. That's a lot of responsibility. All you have to do here is when they're, it says they're sworn in and whatever, and they ask if he's formed or expressed any opinion in regard to

the guilt or innocence of the person at the bar if the answer to this question is in the affirmative he shall be disqualified to sit on this case how about that right there go i think he's guilty that's all you have to say he did it i think he did it no i don't like his shirt i think he did it his eyes look squirrely to me i just in my mind he did it like sorry i'm not i don't know how what's going to change my mind about that i'm just just a hardheaded person. I'm an idiot, but I don't have to sit on a jury for the next four fucking weeks. So I win. So, yeah, that's how you do that. I got out of one by saying that while they were I got called for jury duty. It wasn't death. It wasn't capital shit.

It was just a dude that stole a car and he was clearly a meth head. And they were interviewing the jury. And I just did not want to be there for the next three days. And I saw that the arresting officer looked fairly young. And I asked how old he was and what high school he went to. And I told them that I probably know him. And they let me off. Fair enough. That's good enough.

They asked me, will that sway your opinion? I said, I don't know. I don't know how I know him, but I know him. And eventually when I figure out how I know him, that may change what I believe with this guy. That's pretty slick, actually. You never know. And I got out of it. Events could unfold is all I'm telling you.

I don't know that fucking guy. Of course not. He looks very familiar to me. I'm sorry. He just looks very familiar. I have no fucking idea who that guy is. He fucked my sister. I don't like him.

Fuck him. No. You're out. You're done. I don't like him. No, you're out. You're done. In the opening statement of the trial, the defense attorney here, he says that they do not.

They will not dispute the fact that that Dawson was in the Kisner residence, that he stole money from Kisner and that he bound her hands with shoestrings and stole her car. We're not going to dispute that. That's not in question. But he left and those others came in and did that shit, man. There's a statement that he gives to the police that they hear. In his statement, he just says that Madeline Kisner was alive in the residence with McCoy, Nave, and Irwin. When he left. When he left.

And that was that. That's what he says there. They introduce, obviously, the evidence of the earlier burglary into the whole thing. He's just sticking with it wasn't me. It wasn't me. Yeah. And they have to keep saying that, like, under the rules of evidence here, they're admitting the other burglaries to establish a pattern.

You know, the Sini's house. They're saying, well, yeah, he went from that house to that house. This is how he does things. This is his MO. And the defense was trying to say, well, no, no, you're saying that that's trying to shade them toward that he's a murderer. That doesn't make him a bad guy or a murderer just because he stole from another house. So they're really trying to get technical with this here. Scientific evidence introduced in the trial here, and this is the 80s, so this isn't DNA or anything like that.

They didn't have that back then. They had a retired FBI special agent, Andrew Padillac. He testifies about fiber comparisons he conducted in the evidence items like the sock, the cotton sock found in his pocket used to make the gag. He determined that the socks matched in all microscopic and optical properties as well as in color composition and construction. Same fucking socks, the other pair. He also said that Padillac found red fibers on both the black motorcycle jacket and the black T-shirt that Dawson was wearing. And they match in everything to the fibers of her robe, which is bad. But he's saying, I was in the house.

What are you talking about they also found some blood people came on the stand and found that the blood found on his clothing technical term the blood people that they found here yes they brought in the blood I like that you were just going to try to just let that slide it's fucking blood people do you want to know

serologist that's what it's called do you want to know that what would you have said if I said serologist came in I want you to know serologist? That's what it's called. Do you want to know that? What would you have said if I said serologist came in? I want you to say serologist and I'm going to say what are they? Exactly. Thank you. I honestly saw that word, went to say it, and I said I'm just going to have to explain it's blood people. I just skipped it and said

blood people. Well, this took a lot more time. That was the split second that went through my head he does not gonna know what a serologist is because i didn't fucking know what it was either and i read this shit all the time so uh they determined that blood found on dawson's uh clothing contained genetic markers which were consistent with his uh his own blood uh that were inconsistent with

his own blood but were consistent with madeline kisner's blood and that's what they did then they just found blood you found markers that would say it wouldn't exclude her. But you can't narrow it down. It definitely excludes him. You throw in all of this evidence and now he's got blood on his jacket. He didn't say anything about her bleeding before he left. That's a good point.

So I mean how was she bleeding? He's saying that I got there and I helped her and maybe I got blood on that way. I covered her vagina, remember? Remember? I covered it all up. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our sponsors, ProFlowers. ProFlowers.com. Do you know someone who is obsessed with fall things?

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And now back to the show. The defense in the opening said, quote, there will be evidence that and the defendant does not dispute the fact that he tied Madeline Kisner's hands with her shoestrings and that there will be evidence that the defendant does not dispute the fact that he stole Madeline Kisner's hands with her shoestrings and that there will be evidence that the defendant does not dispute the fact that he stole Madeline Kisner's car that day. But ladies and gentlemen, the fact that David Dawson might be an escapee, the fact that David Dawson might be a thief doesn't automatically mean, ladies and gentlemen, that he is a murderer. And that sounds bad, doesn't it? I love lawyers. That's what he said.

Like, I mean, obviously he's not a murderer. That lawyer is an asshole. Oh, total asshole. He might be you motherfucker he's he's escaped that's a fact it's the fact that he might what a dickhole way to way to fucking unreal man uh the defense presents uh three witnesses during the guilt innocence phase of the trial that have nothing to do with really anything yeah there he they bring in wilbert to say, I only saw three of them. They bring in anybody that they also try. He tried to say that he tried to say that that his that the knave sister that picked them up.

Yeah, it was was lying. Also, he wanted a perjury charge brought up on her because she said that she was there but didn't see him. And he said she never showed up at all. It's bullshit. He wanted perjury. He wanted perjury. He wanted perjury. He was literally, the lawyer had to make statements going,

she needs to be brought up on perjury charges because she made a statement that was slightly different a year ago than she made now in terms of timeline, not in terms of I didn't go or I went or I saw him or I didn't. That wasn't any of it. So this case is overwhelming. We gave you all of the evidence kind of from the trial in the beginning, but pretty overwhelming.

Verdict finds him pretty quickly guilty of all, every count charged. They said, you got anything else? By the way, this is on June 24th, 1988. Dawson never testified. Of course not. He's not going to look good up there at all. No. With his squirrely ass beard, chin pubes hanging back fucking soul patch god damn it so uh he's found guilty on all charges

like we said obviously i love this too by the way what the prosecutors say in his clothing in his closing just this quick thing he says quote what this is about the abaddon nickname what purpose could there be in calling himself the Angel of the Bottomless Pit? Because they said that's the actual Webster's definition of it. They brought in a guy to testify. I know who Abaddon is. I know exactly what that creature looks like. Go on. Yeah, he said calling himself the Angel of the Bottomless Pit, Abaddon, other than to tell people you better watch out for me.

I am bad. I'm horrible. I'm a horrible person. Yes. He said this is not a passing phase, not a fad. It's, you know, he has marred his body with the tattoo. That is not. It's on him forever.

Once you have multiple swastika tattoos, you're locked into that shit for a while. So penalty phase, no, not a fad. That's like stitching those fucking zebra print pants in the 80s to your legs. That's stuck. That's what you're wearing now. That's you forever. Take that, Bret stuck. That's what you're wearing now. That's you forever. Take that, Brent Michaels.

That's all you. So penalty phase here. This is life or death they're choosing here. Life imprisonment or lethal injection. Aggravators for this. They have to find an aggravator to the murder. Murder was committed by a person who escaped from prison. That's one. Murder was committed while the defendant was engaged in the commission of a burglary or robbery.

That's two. And murder was committed while the defendant was engaged in the commission of a burglary or robbery. That's two. And murder was committed just for gain. So those are three. So the state contended her murder was in keeping with the incorrigible nature of Dawson's character. I love they called him incorrigible. That's so minimal. That sounds like a kid who won't eat their dinner. He won't eat his vegetables.

He's being very incorrigible. Or a horny woman that just won't stop making sexual innuendo. Why a woman that won't make it? I don't know. I don't know why that ain't a word. I don't know why I said horny woman. How many horny women who won't stop making sexual innuendo have you ever run into? Well, it's cute when a woman does it.

That's why it's incorrigible. When a man does it, he's a fucking monster. Well, incorrigible, that means bad. It's a playful bad, though. It's not fucking. It is. He's incorrigible. It's playful.

It's not fucking murder. It's somebody that tickles. But tickles you in bad spots. That's right. That's right. Yes. It's a kid. Yeah.

Or a horny woman. Or a horny woman. I was just going to say, or a horny woman kid. Either one, maybe. There you go. That's perfect for that. Or a horny young lady. Or a horny young lady.

Because if the dude does it, he's a piece of shit. Who just got a tattoo just up high on her ankle of a cloud and some rainbows. Couldn't let that one pass here. Ah, Christ. Oh, man. The state also presented evidence of his extensive criminal history, his repeated convictions, his repeated escapes. So you can't even put him in prison.

He's not safe there. He'll escape and then kill more people, as he just did there. Yeah, he did. He let you know. Yeah. They said the name Abaddon was like his career of crime character characteristic of the persona that's like chosen by him like that was his that's his character basically yeah uh they also then they connect it to it they said it's relevant because it's a it talks about his

character speaks to his character that name and it also identifies him because he introduced himself and there's evidence with the postcard that connects him to that car and all that. So, like, it's obviously him. He has a tattoo on his stomach. On his fucking stomach. He introduces people to them as him. They had expert testimony about the whole thing. It's tattooed in red ink, too, by the way.

Really? Oh, you know what it is? That's because all they could get was a red pen in prison. Yeah, that's fucking aggressive, man. That's super aggressive. They do that in prison, tattooing the whites of their eyes that color. Jesus Christ. They do them red or blue, depending on which fucking gang they're in.

It's bananas. That seems really comfortable. That's ridiculous. They had the woman from the bar talk about how he introduced himself as a badden and said that he was very proud. He said he was one of Satan's disciples. The whole deal, man. The whole deal, man. If Tupac robbed gun stores or anything and screamed out Thug Life and West Coast Death Row Records, you'd know who fucking did it.

You'd know who did it. Exactly. That's the thing here. He's got it tattooed on his fucking stomach. You got it. It's him. That's our guy. That's our guy right there.

He's signing shit. He's leaving things behind. He left a trail of shit. It's literally like a murder mystery. Right. This is like a murder mystery where the writers were like, well, we have to leave clues. Like, otherwise or not, we'll leave the pocket watch in the thing over here. We'll leave a postcard signed to Baden. He introduced himself to Baden.

Tattoo. Fucking connected. This is Agatha Christie all day. That's what this is. He left every bit of evidence where you'd watch a show and go, who's that stupid to leave the postcard behind? You have two possessions. You leave your address book in the thing, dummy. So, yeah.

So he argues, the defense argues in the penalty phase, that the evidence about the Aryan brotherhood and the name of Baden are relevant to his character only to use as evidence against him that violates his – they basically said it's only relevant to violate his right of free speech and association. He says that – they also say that by improperly injecting race and religion into the trial, his constitutional right to due process is violated. He said – and also they present two family members as witnesses at the penalty hearing to say he's been a fucking disaster his whole life and he's had it hard. This ain't the first one. And my parents ran away and blah, blah, blah, and Dad beat him and the whole deal. So penalty verdict.

There's a two-day penalty hearing on June 28, 1988. There's a jury of eight men and four women. They take an hour and a half to unanimously recommend the death sentence. That's just filling out paperwork. Let's kill this son of a bitch yesterday. Moving on. What do you guys want for lunch? Oh, yeah, we should fill that

paperwork out. Our sandwich is going to be here soon. I think that's what happened here. Jimmy John's on its way. Freaky fast delivery. Let's go, guys. I want to get in and out of here in an hour and a half. So yeah, they recommend the death penalty and all the counts. The whole deal. He's sentenced to death

by lethal injection by the judge two days or a month later. So he takes the jury's recommendation. Automatic appeal. Automatic appeals coming up. Also, too, he's going to be incarcerated for a total of 100 years with the other convictions, which doesn't matter here. You're not getting out. You're not getting out. He files a motion for a new trial or at least a new penalty hearing, files a motion to delay his sentencing.

They were all denied and he gets sentenced. Obviously, automatic appeal, timely notice of appeal, and the execution has stayed for the appeal because they set execution dates for like within a year. Really? And then you have automatic appeals that are just pushing back automatically. Now, March 1990, direct appeal.

He says that his conviction should be reversed because he was denied a fair trial and penalty hearing. They bring up a lot about the white supremacy and the Abaddon thing. They said that the state presented evidence relating to the theft of two vehicles, and they didn't have clear and convincing evidence to connect Dawson with either of the crimes. Your shit's in there. Your fingerprints are all over the fucking. Your stuff, all over your hers corn chip bag. And your cigarette wrapper. He's leaving shit everywhere.

Postcards. It's ridiculous. And the other one. The postcard was in the other car. Right. Trails in every car. Just to make sure, Agatha Christie. Jesus Christ, man.

He said that the state presented irrelevant and prejudicial evidence of his commission of the burglary at the Sini residence, which not at all irrelevant. It's very relevant into what he's doing. The main thing is the white supremacy thing. He said he's in a new trial. He deserves one because of that. They shouldn't have done that. The penalty hearing thing.

So they should get a new trial because of the evidence and then a new penalty, at least because of this Abaddon thing. This is bullshit. The decision is, quote, we have reviewed each of Dawson's contentions. We find no reversible error. Therefore, the judgments of the Superior Court, which resulted in Dawson's convictions and sentences, including the imposition

of the death sentences, are affirmed. You, sir, may fuck off. For sure. Right to the death penalty. Right to the table. But 1992, he has an appeal that goes all the way to the Supreme Court. This is discussed by the Supreme Court

of the United goddamn States. The last court. The third branch of government talks about this idiot. Because it's the last one. Matter of fact, it ends up finding it's a landmark decision, Dawson v. Delaware. As a matter of fact, he becomes

a big famous asshole out of this. In an 8-1 decision, the court finds, Dawson v. Delaware. No way. As a matter of fact, he becomes a big famous asshole out of this. In an eight to one decision, the court finds for Dawson in this. Yes. It's, like I said, now known as Dawson v. Delaware. They say that the Supreme Court ruled that a person's right of association and due process as granted under the First Amendment and 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution cannot be infringed upon in such as an association has no bearing on the case at hand. So they can't say you're a member of the Aryan Brotherhood.

Therefore, we're going to put that again. We're going to use that against your character. Yeah. You can't hold that against your character. We can't use that to damage you. Yeah. So that's kind of fucked up. It's a little fucked up.

Basically, the Rehnquist said, quote, one is left feeling it was the chief justice before he died here. One is left feeling with the feeling that the Aryan Brotherhood evidence was employed simply because the jury would find these beliefs morally reprehensible. OK. Yeah. They'd want to kill him worse, I'm sure. But he's got he's he's a part of it. Yeah. They say any racist beliefs the group might hold were not tied in any way to the murder because Dawson's victim was white, as is Dawson.

The evidence only proved only the group and Dawson's abstract beliefs, not that the group had committed or endorsed any unlawful or violent acts. What they're saying is if you had killed somebody for the gang, then it was relevant at that point. But since you didn't, it's not relevant. I think it's relevant to character at the end. Absolutely. I think if anybody who puts a bunch of swastikas on themselves unapologetically, I'm not even

saying that. That just says I've you don't know a lot of people with a bunch of swastikas on them. They're like good dudes that you want to go hang out with. A lot. You know what I mean? You know none. Any. You know zero.

It's very, very rare. None. I was tattooed by a man with those and I was terrified for an hour and a half. Of course you were. It's frightening. Yes. When I i was in high school i used to sell drugs to guys like that yeah exactly scary fucking guys they were bikers that owned a tattoo shop that no one ever got tattoos after them i'm like this is not a business what you're running here this is called a front and a way to launder money clubhouse and a way that you guys can stash your pilfered goods. The thing is, they're not good people.

No. And bad people kill people. It should be admissible. I don't care what the race of the person that was murdered is. No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to me. That tells me that that person that is a member of that organization. And that goes for anything else. If you're in the Bloods, I think that should be brought up in your trial.

Yeah, for sure. This guy's a lifelong gang member. He's got blood tattoos all over him. He's kind of into that lifestyle. Any fucking thing. Anything like that, I think, is relevant. He's a member of this because the people that are also members of that accept him as one of theirs. And not for the actual trial.

No. Just for the penalty phase. And it has to be on top of everything else. They had aggravators and I think he's a real asshole too, i'm gonna fucking kill him that's the way we should do it aggravator plus asshole equals dead right yeah so uh april 2nd it doesn't uh this doesn't uh vacate his as actual conviction just a sentence just a sentence so they have to re-sentence or they overturn it all april 2nd, 1993, there's resentencing. For resentencing, big shocker, sentenced to death again.

So twice now. We don't care that you remember that. You're going to die anyway. You're dying. That's right. Jesus Christ. His 95 appeal is based on ineffective assistance of counsel. The lawyers had to put in big affidavits saying everything they did.

And based on a whole bunch of other horseshit that we've already uh we've already talked about the decision there was after careful consideration of the evidence presented the expanded record and the arguments of counsel i conclude that dawson's motion is devoid of merit and that he is not entitled to any form of post-conviction relief from his convictions or the sentences of death which have been imposed eat shit asshole, asshole. Fuck off again. Deal with it. Yeah.

See, this is a guy. I don't like this guy. He's an asshole. He's awful. Break into some poor woman's house and steal her and kill her while she's trying to fucking get ready for work. She's already tied up. That's ridiculous.

She's not a threat to you. Anybody who comes into your home like that, that's the worst thing you can do. It's as violating as you can do. It's in your home and they're coming into your home. It's your safe place. In the morning. Right. your home and they're coming into your home in the morning. So who attacks someone in the morning? What a piece of shit. Kill someone while they're sleeping like a gentleman.

So small town murder tip number five for the day. Kill people while they're sleeping like a gentleman. Be a gentleman. Come on. April 17, 2001, he has a commutation hearing in front of the parole board. Please don't kill me. Please don't kill me because he's supposed to be dead in a week here. What he does, it's an unsuccessful meeting.

So what he does is he just decides to admit everything to the parole board right there. A few days before he's supposed to be put to death, he says he killed her. He made everything up. The other guys weren't there. We know. It was all him. Stabbed her in the fucking head and the chest. Stabbed her up.

Thanks for telling us. No shit, asshole. We knew. Yeah, thanks. We got that got that matter of fact we got that so much you were going to be dead in a week and we didn't care either way whether you told legally dead so uh yeah so this was after 14 years of uh appeals and denials finally leads to april 26 2001 is execution day yeah holy shit batting down the hatches get the kids some. It's shop with a cop day, baby. April 26, 2001. Hilarious.

Now, prior to 1986, the method of execution was hanging in Delaware. Unbelievable. They used to just hang you. A guy named Bill Bailey was the last inmate hanged in Delaware. That was in 1996. Was he botched? No, no. He died, I guess.

I like hearing about the botched ones. I don't know why that makes me so happy. I want a botched. Next time someone's ever hanging in the mix, I'll find some botched hangings for you guys. Don't worry. I'll put that in here. This one went on without a hitch, though. The last one that happened in 96.

That's because this guy was convicted pre-86. Prior to that hanging, the last one was in 1946 96, that's because this guy was convicted pre-86. Prior to that hanging, the last one was in 1946. Jesus, it took them 50 years to get another. It took them 50 years to hang another one here. What they did is in June 86, the Delaware General Assembly enacted legislation that required lethal injection to be the method of execution. They also at that point put a law into effect that mandates executions be carried out between the hours of 12.01 a.m. and 3 a.m. Okay.

I guess so that's the – The murder hours. Yeah, the murder hours. I guess that's so that's the least public is going to see. Yeah, everybody else is asleep. I feel like that shit's got to be on the 5 o'clock news if you're going to do it. Fuck yes. Not on the 5 o'clock news.

I don't want kids seeing it. Prime time. It's got to be like, hey, come on down and watch if you want. At least 9 o'clock. Not for that guy. Just so you can feel like shit if you don't agree with it. You can get that feeling, oh, we just killed that guy. And then you can decide whether that's okay or wrong.

Otherwise, it's just like the people that got the legality of it in their favor are just like doing it undercover. That's not cool. No, that's what it feels like. And that's why that's our problem with the whole thing. Yeah, we want the crowd to go, never mind, we'll kill this asshole. No, we liked Madeline. She was a nice lady and he killed her for no reason. And brutally, too.

Fucking dick. He's a 16-year-old boy with no mom now. No, that's the thing. It's terrible, right? And also the executioner is a volunteer who remains anonymous. So you'll never find out. I don't know about that either. Just the guy who actually presses the button here. I don't know about that that i don't like that at all no he should have to say yeah i'm

phil and i'm gonna kill this fucking guy that's i'm sorry you have to do that i believe in the death penalty i believe this man's guilty and i will fully push this plunger exactly because he deserves it yeah why why we said that about the firing squad guys like i don't like that at all so he ends up spending his last hours sleeping, eating, reading, writing letters. He talks to the corrections staff. He has a couple of family and like one friend that comes in. He doesn't have much family. There's so much suspense right now.

And a spiritual advisor and attorney, Jimmy, you're going to be so disappointed. Really? Let me give you. No. Let me read you a Delaware statute. Let me read you a Delaware statute. All inmates sentenced to the death penalty are served the same meals as the general population three times each day

5 a.m 1 11 a.m and 4 30 p.m uh sorry about that way to ruin it delaware i'm sorry delaware i read that i'm like jimmy's gonna be so fucking sad i was hoping that he was going with the with the like a uh a hunger strike or whatever. Because those guys are dicks. I read about one guy in Texas. I was reading about last meals for this and what other states. Texas got rid of the giving last meals now. Really?

They only do the regular meals. Whatever everybody else eats. Because one guy ordered like 15 things. He ordered like a triple meat bacon cheeseburger and a shitload of fajitas and three pizzas and one bad apple. He ordered all and then didn't eat a fucking drop of it. What a dick. Fuck you guys. What an asshole. He ruined it for everybody there.

Anyway. If he ate it all, would they keep it? They would, right? I don't know. That just pissed them off. Like that ungrateful son of a bitch. Never mind he killed three people, but that ungrateful bastard, how dare he not eat our pecan pie. Fuck, man. Also, the Department, how dare he not eat our pecan pie? So, fuck, man. Also, the Department of Corrections does not allow members of the public to serve as witnesses to the execution.

Really? Victim's families can't be there or anything like that, only state officials. You're doing it wrong, Delaware. I'm saying. Dawson was pronounced dead by lethal injection at 12.05 a.m. at the Delaware Correctional Facility, and Madeline was only 44, so he made it two more years than her. He got 46 out of it, and she only got 44, so he owes for those two years. Madeline Kisner is buried at the Odd Fellows Cemetery in Camden, Delaware, nearby there. Wow.

Sweet Pete. That's fucking heartbreaking, isn't it? That poor lady. I feel bad for her and her family. I really do. Wow. That's fucking heartbreaking, isn't it? That poor lady. I feel bad for her and her family.

I really do. You know, these cases always make me upset because he sat and gamed the system for so fucking long after he did this. These make me crazy because of the in the home aspect. Like, sometimes when people are killed, you're like, well, they're out and about. And, you know, things happen when you're out and about. Or that, you know, who knows if you're hanging out down by the reservoir, somebody might come and kill you.

She was in her house, man. She's in her house getting ready for work. or who knows if you're hanging out down by the reservoir, somebody might come and kill you. She was in her house, man. She's in her house getting ready for work. I mean, in a town of 200 people, she's in her house. In a house coat. I mean, if you said, what are the odds of someone breaking in and killing you, she would have been like, there's 200 people in this town. I'm in a house coat.

No one's killing me. I'm fine. Forget everything else. It's just, what are the odds of you dying tonight? I'm in a housecoat. Are you nuts? I'm talking about it. Totally fine here. Jimmy just found out what one is. That's how safe these things are. Do you find it as sexy as an apron

or no? Absolutely not. I'm happy to hear that because that would have been a terribly unsexy thing. I seriously would have taken you right from here to a psychiatrist's office. The thing about an apron... He wants to fuck my grandma. The thing about an apron to me is that it shows and accentuates the hip area, which I fucking love. Because it tightens right around that and it cinches it.

It's amazing. You watched the Brady Bunch. You weren't into Marsha. You were into Alice. Fucking Alice, man. Just checking on that. So if you like that story, wow. If you fucking look at her from the neck down,

Alice is great. My God. And ankles up. Those shoes are terrible. No, she's not great. I'm sorry. That's why she's banging Sam the Butcher, who also is not great. Her head is what got her Sam. No.

No. Alice is built like a truck driver. She really is. Fuck yes. I don't like her. Her ass has been sitting Alice is built like a truck driver. She really is. Fuck yes. I like her. Her ass has been sitting in a seat for long hauls. And that apron cinches up around it. Long hauls, too. Not this short shit, either.

Not back and forth. She's like a 30-year- Gas deliveries across town. 30-year long haul sleeper cab. Six states at a time. Sleeper cab type of deal. Just pull over in a rest stop and do it up. If you like that story, please, please get on iTunes and give us five stars.

That would be so much appreciated. Or you can go to Patreon, both, not or, and you can go to patreon.com slash crimeinsports. You can make a donation there. Or over at PayPal using our email address, which is crimeinsports at gmail.com. There are over at PayPal using our email address, which is crime and sports at Gmail dot com. You can follow us at murder small on Twitter, Facebook dot com slash small town pod. We have a long list of producers before that. Just want to hit you up live shows one more time today.

Chicago, Illinois at Lincoln. Coming to you. We're coming to you. December 14th. L.H. dash s.t. dot com is where you get your tickets there. February the 16th we will be in Detroit. That is a stand-up comedy show, not a podcast. As of now. As of right

now, that's the two of us and the spectacular Dan Cummins of the Hilarious Time Suck podcast. He'll be the headliner. And if that show sells really well in the next few weeks, there will be a late show that night that will be a podcast. It will be, call show that night that will be a podcast. Yes. It will be call it small town murder with a time suck twist.

Yeah. Basically. And of course, Dan Cummins being your goddamn right. Joining us for that. And so that will be I can't tell you how good of a show that'll be. It's going to be insane. Collaborating with Dan will be fun in the writing process. We're going to have a blast.

So I hope you guys give us a chance to do that. Also, and if you can't make it to Detroit that weekend, how about Sunday of that very same weekend, February the 18th? Get to Boston. We will be at Laugh Boston doing both podcasts, just like Chicago. Early show is Crime and Sports. Late show is Small Town Murder. Get your tickets for that. And you better hurry.

You better hurry. Seriously. I can't believe how fast that one's selling. Yeah, the Boston one's selling really, really fast. Do that. It's just like this. We're going to have a blast where you can see all the crazy shit that we're talking about and doing and our crazy articulations. And also, I put some visuals into it.

We'll get some pictures. You can see what we're looking at, and you can laugh at people. We'll laugh at some blood people. Today, you could have laughed at his stupid goatee and hair. I could have shown it to you and go, look at this squirrely asshole. Look at this asshole. You want to punch him in the dick? Don't you want it so bad?

So come out. Show the world that you want to see podcasts live and buy some tickets for that, especially Chicago. That one's coming up really, really soon. It's like six weeks away. I know. It's crazy. It's crazy.

It's very soon. So all that stuff out of the way. Jimmy, why don't you hit us with the list of producers, the most fantastic goddamn people that we've ever met in our lives that we haven't actually met. I say six weeks. It's actually four weeks. It's four weeks, man. It's four weeks away.

You guys get those tickets now. You guys, thank you so much. This week was incredible. Chrissy Ann Costaldi and Jess Landren, again, like every goddamn week. They're the best. Thank you. With your murder payments. Thank you, guys.

You guys are sweethearts. Thank you. Thank you so much. Chris Edgecomb, Sidney Words. No, Woods. Why would I say Words? Whose last name is Words? There's not a person on Earth.

Maybe, but more likely Woods. Yeah, it's Sidney Woods. Sherry Bullock, Michael Friend, Marina Ayala. Like Tony Ayala. There you go. That's how I knew how to pronounce that. From Crime and Sports episode 26, maybe 25. I think 25.

I can't remember. That sounds right. Right. Scott Countryman, he's a chef, and he sends me all kinds of snaps of his knives and shit. He's a bit of a lunatic, but he's great. All right. Nicholas Lamb-Yorski. Don't stab anybody with them, please.

No, please don't, Scott. Just stab the fish only. Gavin Marsh, Eden's Edibles. I don't know what that is, but they're a company, Eden's Edibles. So patronize. Candy? I hope. Wouldn't that be great? I don't know what that is, but they're a company, Eden's Edibles. So patronize. Weed? Candy? I hope. Wouldn't that be great?

I don't know. Send us weed. It's probably just food. We'll take food. Yeah, I'm in. Brett Barker, Heather Rylander. I'm happy to have food. Yeah.

And if you do weed and food, that's good, too. Great. James loves that. Sure. Who doesn't? Clarence C. Brenchley, Angelo Flota. It's F-L-O-T-T-A. Thatrenchley. Angela Flota. Flota. It's F-L-O-T-T-A. That's Flota.

Flota. Flota. Jane Richards. Renee Hurley. Lipman Media. I don't know what that is, but I hope they make it. Check out Lipman Media. Look them up because they're nice to us.

And if they need anything in terms of- Help them out. Buy shit from them. Buy some shit from those people. Adriana Garcia. Jason Brown. I think that's Brown. I'm a terrible writer. Rory Tullock. Rory Tullock. Yeah. Tullock or Tull people. Adriana Garcia. Jason Brown. I think that's Brown. I'm a terrible writer.

Rory Tullock. Rory Tullock. Tullock or Tullock. Something like that. I love that guy. He's an English guy, right? Yeah, yeah. I think he's Scottish.

Scottish. I think that's true. Yeah, I was going to say Scottish. But he sent something for PayPal, and then he went and fucking went over to Patreon, too. I saw that. I was like, this Rory, thank you, man. There was a couple of people who did that this week. Yeah, you guys.

Kimberly Blevins. Shit, guys. It's insane. The support this week is ridiculousory. Thank you, man. There was a couple of people who did that this week. Yeah, you guys. Kimberly Blevins. Shit, guys. It's insane. The support this week is ridiculous. We appreciate it so much. I can't tell you how much we just, every dime is just, God damn it. Seriously. We're blown away by it.

Kimberly Blevins, Paul Kinsella, Juan Cruz, Miranda Whittinghill. Whittinghill. Yeah, I think so. There's two T's, so that's Whitting. Yeah, Whittinghill, yeah. Darlene James, Hannah Ettinger sent some dough, too. Oh, Hannah, thank you, Hannah. Some British money.

Definitely. Dana Grayson signed up to... The guy's a fucking hero. There's your Delaware episode, Dana. There you go, you fucker. There you go. Thanks, Dana. Now it's going to get filled in on the map and you can't even see it.

Good luck. Helen Deacon. Ryan Bauer. I think it's Bauer. That's not a V. It's not a B. All right. It's Bauer.

We'll go with Bauer. Zach Klend's Bauer. That's not a V. It's not a B. All right. It's Bauer. We'll go with Bauer. Zach Klendestinst. Klendestinst. Klendestine? What's his name? Klendinst. Okay. It's got to be Klendinst because it's not Kleindinst, right?

You're asking me. No, I'm not asking you. You have the paper. Oh, boy. Jackie Burrows Anderson. Holly Hoffman. Luis Santos. Or Luis Santos.

That's it. It's Luis. That's a dude. Sarah Pignotti. She donated before Luis Santos, or Luis Santos. That's it. It's Luis. That's a dude. Sarah Pignotti. She donated before. Yeah, yeah. Luis. What did I say?

Luis? Luis. That's the white boy way to say it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we're going Luis, like Guzman. Luis Santos. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Mike Lipinski, Stephen Dean, Noah Wooten, Wesley Swims, Katie Martins, Lou Brooks.

She's over in England. She's terrific, too. Thank you. Roy Tullock Brooks. She's over in England. She's terrific, too. Thank you. Roy Tullock again. That's why I wrote him twice. Adriana Garcia. I think I wrote her twice, too. Or Adriana Garcia.

I'm not sure. Alicia Stevens, Stephen Amison. Amison? Pamela? Pamela. Did I really just say that? What? What?

All right, that's just fucking sad at that point. It's funny a lot. That's just sad. That's just the point where I want to get you a tutor now. I see the word and I know how to pronounce it. It's because her last name is Ornelas. So you want to try to fucking give it some ethnicity to it. Pamela Ornelas.

Pamela. Not Pamela. No, we'll go with Pamela. Didn't fucking Borat do that to Pamela Anderson's name? Something like that, yeah. I think he called her Pamela. But he spoke with an accent that was very heavy. He's a phony accent.

You're from Colorado. It's not the same. Sorry, Pam. Matt McLean, Philip, Big P, Little Ass Pass. What the fuck? I saw that. I was like, what the hell? Jesus, Philip. That's cool. Don't make me talk about your little ass. Hey, give us...

Put your big P. Good for you. Your dick is huge and we love it. Thank you. Anne-Marie Hoyt, Taylor Ray Foster, Sally or Sally Earls. I think it's Sally Earls. S-A-L-I? Yeah, Sally. Why not? Nicholas Strasburg. And the last page.

We're almost done. We can do this. Kristen Reibold, Karen Feely, Jamie Singh, Annie Stock, Jen Vogel, Jessica Sharp, Kim Kaminsky. Kaminsky. It's just Kaminsky, like the stadium, like the field. Park. Right, right. Park. That's right.

What am I doing? Maggie Kolkoska. Jim Shaughnessy. Melissa Cole. Megan Stoneburner. That's a badass last name. That's a cool one, yeah. Not Jess.

It's Joseph. Intelligent. Tillegent? Tilligent. That's all the possibilities, except for a hard G. Chris Bennett, Kyle Knapp, Alexis DeVries. Brad Koch or Coach? It's got to be Coach. K-O-C-H.

It's not Koch. Yeah, it might be Koch. It might be Koch. We'll go with Koch. Good for you, Brad. Koch. It might be Koch. It might be Koch.

Koch. K-O-C-H is Koch. The Koch boy. I don't know. Yeah. Well, yeah. They're just trying to sound less Jewish. Right. That's true.

We can't sound like Jews. Donate. They'll hate us. They'll hate us. That's how Jews sound. That's so great. No, they're not Jews. They're not Jews.

Oh, okay. Is that what it is? Yeah. The opposite? That's how the opposite of Jews talk. The opposite Jews? Yeah. If you're not Jewish, then you...

I've never met a Jewish person with that accent. It might exist, but I don't know any. Kendall Passmore, Danielle Longamore, Katie Conlon, Gregory Gerolat. Gerolat. Gerolat. Gerolat. No, it's L-A-T. There's no U.

It's got to be Gerolat. Oh, there's no T. Oh, fuck, man. That messed me right up. Kathleen... No, Cynthia. What? At least it's a messed me right up. Kathleen. No, Cynthia. What? At least it's a different name.

Cynthia Mixer. Kevin Whaley. Chanel Whitney, again. Sam... We should call her Synthia. Right. Sam Pulley. Emily Jobe.

Aaron Tanner. And Samantha Law. You guys, this week was fucking bananas. Thank you. The amount of people that are pouring their resources into this is fucking incredible. Thank you guys so much. And we can't do it without you. No, we can't.

It keeps us going, guys. You'll never find two dudes that give a shit more. Thank you guys. That are more appreciative for every drop of everything. The show's been growing so much and it's because of you guys

and your support and spreading the word. The more of you are out there and then you spread the word and it spreads further and it's just awesome. It's unbelievable. Thank you guys so much.

We'll keep doing this as long as you'll keep you'll keep spreading the word for us we'll keep this up so much and what if someone of these fine amazing people wanted to get a hold of a fellow like you Jimmy you can find me at WismanSucks W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks on Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat and this week you guys were

fucking incredible and the few of you that came out last night to the comedy club I'm at the Tempe Improv it doesn't matter at this point it doesn't matter at all to you guys because you can't come out now it's too late And the few of you that came out last night to the comedy club, I'm at the Tempe Improv. What mattered at this point? It doesn't matter at all to you guys because you can't come out now. It's too late. You missed it.

But the people that came out, thank you guys so much. It's fucking incredible to see you guys. Yeah. And don't go there unless they're paying us more than an opener's rate anyway. Don't fucking give them money for that. If we go there and we're getting a cut, then fucking pay them. Otherwise, tell them to keep Bruce Bruce to themselves. Anyway, so you can reach me at Jimmy P is funny.

And you could do that or try to spell my last name if you really want to get adventurous. There's an I in there. Try to find it. It's always fun. It's a good time, guys. It's like an Easter egg hunt for the eye. But guys, besides that, we're so excited. We can't wait to come back next week.

Every single damn week. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.