Small Town Murder - #466 - No Remorse, Plenty Of Stupid - Fort Sumner, New Mexico

Episode Date: February 17, 2024

This week, in Fort Sumner, New Mexico, a tragic family is held together by the grandpa, but when he gets older, his granddaughter is there to take care of him... until he vanishes. She tells everyone that she took him to a nursing home, but can't remember which one. The horrible discovery of a corpse, in a tool box, sends police looking for answers, and what they find just raises more questions!!Along the way, we find out that New Mexico may be cursed, that your Grandpa probably isn't in the same retirement home as Sophia, from The Golden Girls, and that some families just have it rough!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo-choo!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. That's right. Thank you for joining us all aboard the murder train. Pulling away from the station here. Chugga-chugga, here we go. We have a wild of course episode there's a crazy murder with a bonus murder thrown in here it's a lot of weird stuff we'll get to that before we do though definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com get your tickets to live shows all the live shows are for sale for 2024 right now a couple of them are sold out already even one in november sold out so it moving so fast, and I can't thank you enough.

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That's a lot of show you get for the price of $5 a month, which honestly, $5 isn't much. It's a cup of coffee at this point. So let's do that. $5, you got a couple hundred bonus episodes immediately to binge on. And then new ones every other week. One Crime In Sports, one Small Town Murder, and you get all of it. You get it all. You get it all.

This week for Crime In Sports, we're going to talk about some gangster shit hell yeah we're going to talk about a gangster named paul sasso who in the mid 70s owned a world football league team so imagine a like organized crime guy running a professional sports team that's wild stuff i mean he's like a total street guy too it's hilarious it's a lot of fun for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about some real weird stuff. Natalia Grace and is she a 25-year-old psychopath or a

9-year-old disabled child? Which one is it? We'll find out. How does the father make tears pop from his eyes like that? We'll explore it all there this week on Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Also, you definitely want to Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Also, you definitely want to listen to our other shows, Crime in Sports, if you haven't listened to that. I don't know what you're –

What are you doing? What are you doing? What's your problem? What are you doing with your life? What's your deal? It doesn't matter. If you think we're funny, it's just us making fun of a guy for a couple hours. It's fun stuff, so check that out.

And then your stupid opinions, honestly. If you want to laugh, we're telling you right now. It's the funniest show you're going to find, so check that out every Monday morning. Both of those. That said, I think it's time, everyone, to sit back. What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs.

I don't care where you are right now. Let's say you're a barista. You're making somebody's coffee right now. Throw that hot coffee right in their face. Take the cinnamon. LeBron it in the air. LeBron it in the air. Climb up upon the counter and throw your hands to the sky and shout,

Shut up and give me murder. There we go. Let's go on a trip, everybody. LeBroning cinnamon is my favorite image right now. Yeah. And then cinnamon in the air. Hot coffee to the face. Someone's, ah, cinnamon in the air.

Nah. That's right. We're going all the way to New Mexico here. Oh, boy. Jimmy's, I think it's his least. What a nightmare. Top three least favorite states for Jimmy, I know. Probably number two. Number two. Might be one favorite states for Jimmy, I know. Probably number two.

Number two? Might be one. More than? I don't know. I've given their government about as much money as Texas in speeding tickets. In speeding tickets? Yeah, yeah. It's both of those places.

Both of those, yeah. I don't want to be in either. That's true. Well, we're going to Fort Sumner, New Mexico. It's over in Fort Sumner. Really? Yeah. Not Fort Sumter, like the Civil War's over in Fort Sumner. Really? Yeah. Not Fort Sumter, like the Civil War.

That's what it is. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. This is Fort Sumner. This is in eastern central New Mexico. No man's land, middle of nowhere out there. East of Albuquerque? Oh, yeah, about two and a half hours to Albuquerque. Oh, boy.

This is a small town, man. Six hours and ten minutes to silver city new mexico because that was all the way in the southwest part of the state our last episode in new mexico episode 403 three suspects and a moron which was hilarious i remember that one that was fun and a moron three population of this town 1364 so it is a small place in the middle of nowhere. Median income here, household income, is $35,556 a year, which is about half the national average. Not great.

And then median home price, though, meets that. It's also low, $134,600. Yeah, but what are you getting for that? You get a trailer in the middle of nowhere, because that's that's where everybody lives in here there's not a lot of it's it's one of those places when you're driving and you go people live people live here well there's a lake near here apparently oh so it's like a recreation area there too you want to go in the middle of nowhere new mexico and gather around a lake well here it is three- eyed fish out of it. It is. Yeah. No shit. After plenty of testing there. So it is named after the former New Mexico territory,

military governor, Edwin, uh, Jose Sumner, or Vozay Sumner. Um, and us Fort Sumner was a military fort charged with the internment of nearby Navajo and Mescalero,

a pop Apache people nearby. So that's what this was for, to intern the natives of the area. This was from 1863 to 1868. And the federal government closed the fort in 1868 and sold its buildings to a guy named Lucian Maxwell, who was just a guy who owned a shitload of land in New Mexico. And so in the latter 1870s, Maxwell's son, Pete, to a guy named Lucian Maxwell, who was just a guy who owned a shitload of land in New Mexico. And so in the latter 1870s,

Maxwell's son, Pete, became very good friends with Billy the Kid. I was just going to say that's like... This is the area he hung out in. Because he hung out West Texas and Eastern New Mexico, right in this area is the whole Billy the Kid thing. Yep, that's where they had... Too much heat. They knew tons of people with ranches, like this here that's what they would do uh so billy the kid is buried

in the old military cemetery in fort sumner is that right yes that's this town's claim to fame and draw is billy the kid's grave is here yeah and it was his safety that's what it is so let's find some reviews of this town we've never been there what the hell do we know about here i've seen young guns that's about it i have seen young guns it's emilio estevez around can i find him where's lou diamond phillips damon i want to talk to him stabbed lou diamond around where is he uh for your first review five stars this is a very small rural community quite peaceful and for the most part a very nice little town. I would like to see it grow a little. At least have one or two things for the kids to do.

No. Sorry. No. There's 1,300 people. What are they going to build for you? A Chuck E. Cheese? It's not going to happen. You got to pool your money and do it together.

I don't think that's going to happen. Three stars. Community is great. Treats one another like family very i love this you see this a lot in reviews they always misspell quiet very quite town see that a lot quite a town downside is there isn't much to do because it's the middle of nowhere so it's a trade-off one star finally higher cost of living than other areas that have more conveniences. Not really. $134,000 is your median home price. It's pretty cheap.

Too far away from shopping. Utilities are doubled to triple the amount in other towns. That might be possible because the farther out you are, the more expensive it is to get you electricity. It's just the way it is. That's life. Rural electricity is very expensive. And it's probably a private water company of some sort.

You're still paying for them to run the lines out there. You know what I mean? You're going to pay for that forever here. It gets better here. The water is brown slash rust color often. So add having to buy bottled water to your expenses. Moved here during the pandemic and during school year. School was a joke. What you from canada fucking joke man yeah that's a canadian thing that canadians love

to say something's a joke from your stupid opinions we found out and then when we noticed it then tons of canadians started commenting on it going you know what you're right i never noticed it but i always say that and so does everyone around me that's so weird we do say that a lot they also say things like uh smoked my elbow if you like hit your elbow smoked it good yeah canada and the south they'll say that those two places in the south you have to be careful someone will slap a sauce on it that's the problem we'll come at you with like a vinegar based sauce come here come here hold on a minute i gotta put slap some sauce on while it's still hot so things to do in this town the billy the kid museum and replica grave okay well his real one's there his tombstone was stolen years back and so now they have a right oh yeah of course it was it's something that you could take so people are gonna take i mean

make it so you can't that man uh they said that motherfucker in the ground this is how you could take so people are gonna take i mean make it so you can't that man they said that motherfucker in the ground this is how you could do that yeah bury it like a basketball hoop in your driveway yeah put a fucking u-band coffee can down there that's all anchor that bitch down so they said unless you're driving the shortest route between santa fe and roswell new mexico there's no reason you'd pass through fort Sumner. Basically, unless you're coming here on purpose, the town is miles away from anywhere else, which made it a great hideout for 19th century outlaw like Billy the Kid.

Today, it makes the drive to Fort Sumner's Billy the Kid Museum seem like a real adventure. There are no casual visitors. You have to want to be here. You got to want it. That's a great motto for the town. Fort Sumner, New be here. You gotta want it. That's a great motto for the town. Fort Sumner, New Mexico. You gotta want it. Like some 90s sports drink

or something, you know? You gotta want it. The museum has I guess he was shot dead. Billy the Kid was killed just south of town, too. So this is the area he was killed in. By the coward Pat Garrity. That's right.

That's right. They have an exhibit about Pancho Villa as well. They also have an old horse-drawn hearse that has nothing to do with anything. It's just what they used to have. And a stuffed eight-legged calf born on a nearby ranch in the 50s. You guys, that's not a good thing. No, but it's just stuff. They used to have the real one, but they said, quote,

kids would pick the nose and the ears, so we took it off display. Yeah, so that's pretty funny. They have a thing, a large replica. They have a tombstone where they have a Steel Billy's tombstone contest, and you have to run with this tombstone that you have to carry it's an 80 pound tombstone they'll keep doing that until somebody dislocates a a shoulder or fucking throws their back out and they get sued well you have to jump over barriers and all this shit it's like you're actually stealing the tombstone and uh the woman with american

gladiator shooting tennis. That would be amazing. That'd be a much better addition to this. A woman who finished seventh in the race said it's harder than I thought. Well, no shit. Yeah. Why would you think that would be easy? I have no idea.

Let's talk about a murder, though. That's what we should do. OK, here, let's do this. We're not going back in time too far here. OK, we're going back a very short amount of time, so let's discuss here. Let's talk about a guy first. Let's talk about A.J. Harden. Yeah.

H-A-R-D-E-N, A.J. Harden. He was born in Fort Sumner, New Mexico on April 2nd, 1938. Holy. Oh, yeah. His parents are Carl and Ola. He had a twin named C.J., so they have C.J. and A. Holy. Oh yeah. Uh, his parents are Carl and Ola. He had a twin named CJ. So they have CJ and AJ. Okay. Don't know what that's all about. KJ and BJ and BJ, PJ, PJ, RJ, JP. So he grew up in Fort Sumner. He went to school there. He, AJ worked in the logging industry in his early years in Alaska and Oregon. Is that right?

We're talking 50s, 60s, Alaska fucking lumbermen. That's rugged. Jesus, yeah. You got to be a hardcore man right there to be doing that shit. He knows a guy missing an arm. Oh, he knows eight guys missing arms. He's kind of jealous of him because he feels like a pussy for having two arms. A couple of one-handed chainsaw operators up there.

You two-armed pussy, come on over here and help out with your two arms. You can hold the limb at the same time. Watch this. He was also in the U.S. Navy as well. He was probably right after Korea before Vietnam. Yeah, that's a nice time. That's a good sweet spot. But there was also –

We always thought we were going to have nuclear war with the Russians at any minute. So it was also a stressful time for him. And Cuba too, right? Well, through Russia. Russia through Cuba. It was Russian missiles they brought down to Cuba. Okay. His twin died in 1960.

Oh, no. 22 years old. So CJ – no more CJ. They're dead. Jesus. He married a woman named Virginia Roberts in 1962, so 24 years old. This is the name of the town, Marriage Villa, California. Is that right?

Yeah, because it's a town you can get married in, apparently. I don't know what. I don't know if it was like for near a base or something. They had like a little wedding thing for all the soldiers to get married. A safe place where everybody could go. I don't know what it is. Back then, they all got married young, so I guess it would make sense. So they traveled across the country while AJ worked as a long-haul truck driver as well.

What were those trucks like? No idea. In the 60s? Hard to drive, I'm sure. I would say, me or you would get in it and go, I don't know how to move this fucking thing. What is that? How many clutches is that? What is going on?

Why are there four pedals? We'd be so confused if we got one of these trucks. Just grinding shit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're the ones that hop when you can't drive it right. Yeah. They're the ones that hop when you can't drive it right. Yeah. Not good.

He worked for Furs Trucking for many years while living in Fort Sumner. He owned and operated his own truck for many years as well. They lived along, too. They lived in Wellington, Texas for a long time while he was trucking. I think because it's a centralized location for trucking. It's probably pretty easy. It's probably close in that panhandle, isn't it? No, Wellington is near Dallas, I believe.

Oh, it's way over there. Yeah, it's over there in the eastern part of the state. And he also lived in Dixon, Missouri for a few years. And then they ended up moving back. The couple moves back to Fort Sumner. And, you know, they have a couple of kids and all this type of stuff here. They said even when they moved back to Fort Sumner and he stopped driving trucks, he never retired.

Instead, he and Virginia built a hamburger stand and set it up in Fort Sumner. How many hamburgers can you move in a day? I mean, I'm just— In a place that's removed like that. All I can imagine is if there's like a factory maybe or some place that a lot of people work get off at lunch yeah and if it's get a good lunch rush i'm just picturing the banana stand from arrested development though like he's in there there's always money in the hamburger stand just bored yeah hanging out so they did that for years and it worked out well actually

so they were fine they went to church uh the church on the hill, which seems to be where everybody goes in Fort Sumner. 2012. All right. Two of his kids die in 2012, in the same year. Oh, no. Which is very interesting. And there's a tradition. How old were they?

I'm not sure. I think about 20-ish is what okay what i can find here right around canceled jay's age right around there kale non yeah old uh canceled carnage jay there so they have a tradition in this family too where they seem to name daughters after mothers too okay he has a sister named ola which is his mother's name. Right. And they have, he's got a daughter named Candy, and then she'll have a daughter named Candy. So this goes on. So two of their kids die, Shane and Candy, both of their kids. I don't know if they were in the same car together or what the hell happened.

But now 2016 comes around, March 16th, 2016, AJ's wife virginia dies damn it yeah so now he's lost two kids a twin brother and a wife he has seen so much death so much death and i mean if he wasn't such a damn lumberjack i'm sure he'd be very sad but and in that job he's probably seen a shitload of that's what i mean and he was in the military and he's you know he's just surrounded by trucking back then truckers would fucking die a lot it was the roads were not the same as they are now i mean it's and the roads aren't terrific now in a lot of places but back then it was i mean christ almighty it was dangerous to be a trucker super fucking dangerous there's and the warning systems for like weather now are so much better they wouldn't know if a snowstorm was coming.

A tornado was coming through. That's it. You'd pull over. That would be your only option. So his daughter Candy that died in 2012, she had a drug problem for a long time. Oh, no. That was the issue. And he and his wife, until she died, were raising their children when they were kids.

Candy's kids. Raising Candy's kids before she died, were raising their children when they were kids. Candy's kids. Raising Candy's kids before she died even because she had a lot of drug problems. So it was to the point where they had to take her kids in even. So they had to take young Candy and she's got a brother as well. So they were there. Now, AJ is diagnosed with cancer in 2016. Hey, why not? Why not?

Let's throw that in there. The amount of tragedy this man has faced. Why the fuck not? Hey, your wife's dead and you're sad? I got some good news and bad news. Good news is you ain't going to have to face it much longer. Yeah, good news is. Bad news is this is bad.

So he's diagnosed with cancer in 2016. Do we know what kind? We don't know exactly what kind of cancer. Candy Jo Webb is his granddaughter. She's born about 1993. Now, by 2019, he's still alive, AJ, fighting his cancer. Candy Jo, she's been in a relationship for years with a guy named Sean Perkins. But by 2019 2019 they break up

and so she moves in with her grandfather to take care of him and she lives in the home she does the cooking and the cleaning and you know makes reminds him to take medication takes him to doctor's appointments all that kind of shit here and eventually Harden

AJ will will his house to to candy to Candy as well. I mean, number one, there's not a lot of family left. Who the fuck else? Yeah. And number two, you know, she's the one. She's earning it. Let's be honest here.

She's doing it, yeah. If you wipe somebody's ass, you get their house, I feel like. That's how it works, right? You definitely get something. Your name's in the will. You better get something here. I think an ass wiping is a house-worthy activity. I think so.

Yeah. To wipe your grandpa's ass? Yeah. Right. I'm sorry. You're not wrong. I'm just picturing myself trying to take care of my grandfather. You go, let's see that will, Grandpa.

I'm laughing at him a lot as I'm doing this. What's in it for me, Grandpa? Yeah. This is really fucked up, Jer Bear. Man. So Candy Joe's friend said, quote, she did mention his health and how it was declining. Candy didn't know how much longer she was going to have with him. So that's so sad. Now, 2020 pops up because this was 2019.

Now, 2020 comes around. Oh, boy. 2020 pops up because this was 2019. Now 2020 comes around and as if we remember 2020, people went inside and especially people who are 80 plus years old with cancer, right? Weren't going out mingling a whole lot because it wasn't really safe. So they were, um, they kind of stay inside.

AJ isn't really seen for a while, but a lot of old people aren't seen for a while. Everybody kind of lost track of people in 2020 yeah there was a lot of domestic murders in 2020 where people would have the body in their house for like six fucking months because just nobody had asked yeah nobody asked yeah just they're not doing what they normally do and no one expects them to be anywhere and yeah that's how it went so So people start asking about AJ. You know, how is he?

How's he doing? All that. Candy starts telling people that he's fine, but she had to put him in a home, in a retirement home, a nursing home type of deal. He's too sick for her to take care of him, and she put him in a home, and he doesn't want to be bothered, basically.

He wants to die with dignity in this home. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now, so that's how it is. People think, oh, AJ's not sad. He's in a home now. And, you know, that's just how it is.

Then October 15th, 2020 comes around. Okay. Now, this is the 1900 block of Shenandoah Drive in Fort Sumner. Shenandoah. Shenandoah. There's a guy named Chad Abeda, and he's lived at this address for about five months. And he had noticed back, there's a ditch. They have like a big area to dump shit in the back with a bunch of shit that people have dumped.

And there's a ditch in the back that has a bunch of shit. And there's a ditch in the back that has a bunch of shit. And he noticed back there there is a tool chest, like a big, you know, like a back of a pickup tool chest. Yeah. Like Dillsboro, Indiana. Yeah. Tool chest. Oh, yeah.

That episode. Goes in a truck bed. Those are great. Big old toolbox. And they're expensive, too. Oh, boy. Yeah. He sees that back there, makes a note of it because he said, it looks like it's in good condition, too. It might fit in my truck.

Yeah, it's sitting back here with a bunch of garbage. Somebody dumped it. So he didn't check it out at all. He just looked at it and went, look at that. And then a relative of his was over dumping some stuff, and a relative said, hey, what's up with that toolbox back there? That thing's in good shape. I'm actually looking for one of those.

You maybe want to sell it to me? It's like a Yoda. Hell, yeah. Whatever. So he goes, yeah, sure. I don't care.'s check it out i don't know you know if there's anything in it it might be gross or who knows so he pops it open and when he pops it open he was met with a incredibly foul odor the way he put it overwhelmingly foul oh no so um immediately they see a skull.

Yeah. So they decide, let's go ahead and call the cops on this one here. Yeah. And the police show up and they find inside the toolbox is a body. Damn it. A full body wrapped in blankets. Okay. But the head was sticking out of the top of the blanket. Oh, that's fucked up.

They saw skull is what they saw. Yeah. Oh, that's fucked up. They don't know if it's been here for some time, but it's definitely been dead for some time. There is duct tape here. Duct tape around the mouth and wrists of this body once they unfurl it from the blankets. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah. And they said at the time, they said there was black duct tape around his mouth and a leg and wrists. And they also said that they couldn't even figure out. It was so badly decomposed at first they couldn't even figure out, it was so badly decomposed,

at first they couldn't even figure out a gender on this body, no less anything else, an age, a fucking, any kind of identification. Then they couldn't, but the doctor noted there was facial hair and male clothing. And then when they took the clothes off, they found in a shirt pocket an appointment card, a doctor's appointment card detailing a July doctor's appointment for A.J. Harden. That's easy. There you go.

He's wearing old man clothes and has his doctor's fucking appointment card, has his reminder card, took it off his fridge and popped it in his front pocket there. Old man clothes with a mustache and a chemo doctor's appointment. Pretty easy to figure it out. He's wearing a lumberjackers flannel. Does that mean it's ring a bell at all? So they said, they go to the people, they go to that Chattabeta guy, and they're like, any ideas here? Do you see anybody fucking around in your backyard?

Do you see anybody fucking around in your backyard? And they said that they were renting the home with the trash pit, and they saw a white pickup haul a trailer to the pit a few weeks earlier. And they said the trailer was left behind with a flat tire. Really? There's been a trailer sitting out there with a flat tire. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

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you get your podcasts so they they were asking themselves the police said was this the trailer did somebody use this to dump the the body because people dump shit back there all the time it might have been just somebody dumping something they said from the minute we saw the trailer it just looked like anything else but at the the same time, it was still out of place for us. Just to leave a big trailer back there is, that's not garbage. Yeah, that's strange. Well, flat tire.

Done with it now. Throw it in the garbage. That doesn't equate bad trailer. Exactly. So the renters told police one of the people who knew about the trash pit and had used it before was Aaron Harden, who is A.J. Harden's grandson, Candy Jo Webb's brother. Okay. He'll come up a lot later.

So the owner of the property they get down to, and her name is Brenda Moyer, and they interview her. She tells police she rented the home to her son, Sean Perkins. Sean Perkins is Candy Jo Webb's ex-boyfriend. Exactly. Heir of the Perkins fortune. Heir of the Perkins pancake. Bread bowl family restaurant fortune. God, that place sucks.

You know it sucks because when i went there and they asked how was it and i went not very good and they just went she just kind of shrugged like yeah it's about right like they weren't like oh no they were just like yeah that's what we expect it's perkins i can't hear the name perkins and not think of that trash heap it's such a trash heap kendrick every person all of perkins all the i think of that place i go oh you poor bastard oh my god so many they tried to sell that restaurant as feasible to us they're still doing it it still exists there's a perkins five miles from me i don't know why people people go that's crazy why are you coming here exactly that's a documentary i want to make why are you

at perkins it's called and you just go around and ask people and i bet it would go from this documentary about pancakes and shit to like this dark place of like we'll follow somebody because they're sad and that's why they're there and it'll be like an episode of hoarders you can do a tiktok about it james a whole fucking page nope nope not doing that. Just take your phone to the entrance of that parking. That's it. Just watch the sadness. Why are you here?

Sadness cam, I call it. So she said that they lived there for a long time. They lived there for a couple years while they were dating, Candy Jo and Sean. Brenda Moyer said the ditch behind the area was always used for dumping large objects, but she had never seen a tool chest there. She said that Harden was Webb's grandfather, and it was her understanding that A.J. Harden was in a nursing home at this point. Right. So, yeah. So they're like, all right, this is interesting. We have a lot of things going on here. We think it's A.J. Harden. His granddaughter lived here. She has access to the yeah. So they're like, all right, this is interesting. Um, we have a lot of things going on here. We think it's AJ Harden.

His granddaughter lived here. She has access to the property. So does her brother, his grandson. So they're like, we obviously talk to, yeah, we obviously have to talk to candy because who knows? I mean, they say that that's him, but they keep that the time they don't know if it's him. Yeah.

She could load them in the car and take them to the nursing home and say, there he is right there. There he is. So they try to talk to her and figure it out. And they talk to Sean Perkins, and he says, quote, Candy texted me asking me if it would be a bad idea for AJ to go to a home. I told her that's between you and him. None of my fucking business if you want to wipe your grandfather's ass or not what the hell the hell are you asking me for it's not my it's not my pig not my farm it's between you and his asshole at this point i don't know so i texted

her one day asking her did you send aj to a home and she told me yes i did okay so they talked to candy joe and she says that the residents on shenandoah with the trash pit yes she did live there for nearly two years but she hasn't been on the property since june so it's been a while i don't know she told the cops that she took aj took grandpa to a nursing home in wellington texas where he used to live that's nice about six months ago and uh they said oh okay great well we just need to contact him and if he's alive then don't worry about it we'll clear it off they said which which uh home did you send him to and she said ah damn it what's the name of that place she said you know what i don't i'm gonna have to look it up i don't remember where i said what what's the name of the place i sent him going to have to look it up. I don't remember what the name of the place I sent him to.

Going to have to look it up. I'm not sure. They said, well, have you talked to your grandfather since he's been there? And she said, oh, yeah, I talked to him in September over the phone. So it's been in the last month. So they questioned her a little more about this. And she said, yeah, yeah, no, he's in hospice care there. By the way, I think Wellington is western Texas. I think you're right, by the way.

It's got to be. I'm picturing a map with Wellington on it, and I think it's over there. It's got to be near New Mexico. I believe it's there. I just think it is. I can see it on a map. It just popped in my head, this image of Wellington on a map. I think it's in the western part of Texas.

So she, again, she goes, yeah, I know he's there, but I don't remember exactly where. So the Jerry Hernandez, who is the New Mexico state police sergeant, he said, so the fact that she doesn't remember where she dropped him off, that's a big red flag, big red flag. Yeah. Yeah. I would say he's acting like he just had an epiphany and he came up with that. Yeah. It's like, that's weird, isn't it? Like, immediately you'd be like, wait a second. You took your grandfather to a place, which means you must have gone on the internet,

researched places. Yeah. You don't remember the name of it. You Googled it for the directions because you don't just know where that shit is. Then you dropped him off and you stood under a sign. Right. That said this on it. You looked for the sign as you drove down the road.

Yeah. You know where you sent your grandpa. Within the last six months, this happened. Yeah. I wouldn't forget that. Very early onset dementia she has. It's like in her 20s. That's dangerous.

That's very dangerous. That's dangerous. That's very dangerous. So she also tells police, Candy does, that she has a no trespass order against her brother Aaron, who she told the cops is nothing but trouble. Oh. Nothing but trouble. And the one police officer said she was worried about him taking advantage of AJ and maybe even her. She was very protective of AJ. He was that parental figure that she never really got okay all

right so october 19th 2020 comes around and they talked to perkins again the ex-boyfriend and he said yeah i moved away i don't even live near there i live in artesia there it's about you moved like a year ago i had a six-year relationship with candy and and I haven't been to the Shenandoah Drive residence since May. So, been a long time since I rock and rolled. I don't know what the fuck to tell you. I haven't been there. So, they said. Yeah, exactly.

So, when they asked who A.J. Harden was, Perkins said, oh, well, that's candy's grandfather. And he used to give candy money all the time. Yeah. He said that AJ apparently lived in a nursing home in Texas for the last few months, but he said that the way he understood it from candy was that he didn't want others to know where he was located. He wanted to be just left alone in this nursing home. Doesn't AJ,

AJ, because that's what people want. They want to go to a nursing home and not have any visitors or have any caring or love from any sort of family members or friends. During a time like that, one of the most dangerous places to be was locked up in a nursing home.

Oh, God, yeah. You could just spread it and kill all of them at once. Oh, boy. So that's what he's saying. So he's saying he wanted to be left alone. Now, October 20th, 2020, a New Mexico State Police investigator spoke with a DeBaca County Sheriff's lieutenant who noted that on a September 3rd call for service, he spoke with Aaron Harden, AJ's grandson. He said, I got call september 3rd aaron indicated he was concerned because he had not recently spoken to his grandfather and that candy wouldn't

tell him where his grandfather was so this is the brother that she said is nothing but trouble and got a trespass order against he this guy had called the cops two months ago and said i can't find grandpa basically um also aaron harden said that yes candy did file a no trespass order against me in august as well so they bring candy back in okay let's let's figure this out here you said you had to go check on they let her go for like days by the way to check to find the name of the retirement home. Did you find it yet? You'd be like, I'll take you back home. You go in and look around and tell us in five fucking minutes.

You should be able to figure it out quick. Here's the thing. Find the check that you wrote to them because they don't just care for people on spec. You don't even have a brochure sitting around? A little pamphlet, a little threefold? None of that. Shows a bocce ball court or some shit. Yeah. Show how they exercise it.

So a few days, they talk to Candy. It's a few days later. And they're like, so what up with the name of this facility? Yeah. And she said that one of her grandmother's sisters checked him out of the facility. So one of her great aunts checked grandpa out of the facility so one of her great aunts right checked her checked grandpa out of the facility maybe he's having like a hot affair with his dead wife sister yeah let's rub our cancers together who is she fucking casey anthony just making it up as she goes what is

this and they said well what is what is the name of the place? And she said, oh, I have that, though. Yeah, it is the Shady Oaks Retirement Estate. What? Okay, now, check it out. The cop says, immediately after hanging up with Candy, I looked up Shady Oaks. I could not find a Shady Oaks anywhere. So, again, it was another red flag for us yeah

your red flags are like giant hunks of evidence sitting in the middle of the room and they're like it's a bit of a red flag right no that is a fucking arrestable fucking piece of evidence is what that is shady oaks is like from a movie or something you know what it's from you know exactly what it's from because i knew it immediately the place in the golden girls that sophia did not want to be sent back to is called shady pines there it is that's exactly what it was i fucking because i was like wasn't sophia's shady pines looked it up yes it fucking was because that was what b arthur would always say ma you want to go back to shady pines and she And she'd be like, no, Dorothy, I don't. That was the threat.

I knew it was from something. Yep. And I saw the look on your face, and I'm like, oh, don't spoil it. That's so funny. It's fucking. She literally saw some Golden Girls reruns on Lifetime and was like, what's the name of that place? And then fucked it up. And then ruined the reference. And then ruined it. Either that or she was like, what's the name of that place? And then fucked it up. And then ruined the reference.

And then ruined. Either that or she was like, well, I can't. He might have watched the Golden Girls. I can't say Shady Pines. What's another tree? Oaks are good. And that sounds retirement home-ish. That's why on a sitcom they called it Shady Pines because it sounds like a retirement home.

Ah, so good. Wow. That is the worst. The worst lie ever is what that is that is terrible i hope when that when that detective looked up shady oaks retirement it came up dorothy yeah came up with a picture of sophia in her purse the stelgetti standing there and dorothy's threats finger at her ma you want to go back to Shady Pines ah it's so funny so he couldn't find any evidence of a Shady Oaks anywhere which I'm surprised nobody named their place Shady Oaks it sounds like it's a good name yeah it's almost like she

said there's got to be one named Shady Oaks right probably yeah and also a number for AJ provided by Candy indicated that it just rang. This number rang and then said the customer hasn't set up their voicemail yet. So there was no way to contact him. She's like, well, here's his number. You can call him. Right. No. the state social security office and learned that Harden's retirement address was at a lake house on Tamarack Lake or Tamarack Lane in Fort Sumner.

And the bank account originated from a bank in Wellington. So the state police officials on October 22nd, this is two days after she tells them it's shady oaks. Here's his number. Have a good one. Two days after she tells them it's Shady Oaks. Here's his number. Have a good one. Two days later, they want to talk to Candy Jo again, who then said she needed to contact her attorney first. And I'll call you back.

And then she never called them back or would never answer her phone again. She stopped. She stopped answering the phone. She just fucking ghosted him. So find me if that's that that's interesting where is she first of all check shady oaks she might be there otherwise the amount of misinformation she's given them though is terrible and then she stops talking to them it's so that is what an investigator would call a red flag a little bit of a red flag that investigator would find like a butcher knife covered to the hilt and blood sitting on a living

room table and be like bit of a red flag right what do you think with a corpse next to it and a bloody person standing there going i didn't stab him i don't know what happened it's a bit of a red flag you think what do you think a guy admitting it to him would be like a small red yeah he's like i'm gonna keep an open mind i hear i don't want to you don't want to get too locked into a story that's you don't get too locked into a theory of a case false confessions before and it bit me right in the ass so now it's i don't even call them confessions anymore i just call them uh i just call them self-inflicted red flags that's all it is self-red flags i say so the candy is saying like if you she was saying as part of her thing is my brother's

the one who's trouble so you should talk to him anyway because i just stuck him in shady pines and he's fine shady oaks whatever the fuck shady shady shady so police get in contact with aaron aaron the brother and he said that i thought grandpa died oh And he said that, I thought Grandpa died. Oh? Because he said he couldn't get a hold of him as of September 3rd. That's the only time they talked to him is when he called them. And they didn't even know AJ was missing. Now, when they finally contact Aaron after AJ has been missing, he says, I thought he had died peacefully.

That's what I heard. I thought he was dead. So, yeah, I don't understand it. So they were like, well, we hear that you and him had some trouble and all that shit. And Aaron said, quote, me and him were on good terms, the best of terms we've always been on. We've never had no problems. He never had no problems, goddammit. Yeah. God damn it.

Aaron believed that his sister took out a no trespass order against him because he discovered that Candy Joe had been writing checks from the account that Aaron shared with his grandfather. So Aaron figured it out. Aaron saw in the bank account and confronted her about it. She found a legal way to keep him away. And yeah, she got a no trespass order. So now he's not even allowed to call to say hey what's up with those checks so he said that he hadn't seen his grandfather since august and that you know that uh candy had filed the restraining order in early september so he does say i saw grandpa in august but then yeah since uh early september i haven't been allowed to contact them he said that he does own a tool chest like the one described by police.

Oh. Yeah. And they said, well, where is it? And he said, I left it at my grandfather's lake house a long time ago. And so they run right up to the Tamarack Lane lake house and couldn't find any tool chest there. No toolbox at all. No toolbox. So, like, that's a problem.

Next, they talked to Garrett Bean. B-E-E-N-E, Bean. Garrett Bean, double R, double T. State police go to talk to him, and they learn that Candy Jo had stayed with her boyfriend, Garrett Bean, her new boyfriend, for a while. So police talk to Garrett. boyfriend, Garrett Bean, her new boyfriend for a while. So police talked to Garrett. Bean tells them that when he asked Candy Jo where her grandfather was, she told him that grandpa passed. She just said he died in his sleep a few months earlier.

Okay. Yeah. She said that. Yeah. They said, oh, my God. Well, what did you do? And she said, I contacted the Fort Sumner Fire Department to come fucking get him. What else am I going to do?

Oh. So the investigators check that out they find no emergency service medical service record for that address at all okay here's the problem if you're gonna fucking lie yeah you can't lie about the most easily checkable things these are yeah records they have easy access to they barely have to make a phone call to get these records. Super fucking easy. And there's a tape of it. Yeah. Forget just paperwork showing that it was called.

They'll have your recording. It's 2020, for Christ's sake. Especially when you're reporting a fucking body. Yeah. It's all digital now. It'll even sound good. It'll be great. So you can really hear.

It's not like old times where it's all muffled. It's all digital now. It'll even sound good. It'll be great. So you can really hear. It's not like old times where it's all muffled. It's terrific. And you lie about that and lie about the name of a nursing home, which is extremely checkable. Yeah, business is paperwork for sure. She had four days to come up with the name of a retirement home and never pick one in four days. Just put it off think about that procrastination didn't just like go to the library and look something up so it wouldn't be on her phone or you know yeah making somebody disappear and then not having a solid

story about it when all stories conflict with each other that's a problem that is a huge problem not one story she has several tons of bad stories way too many garrett bean said when he found out that there was no emergency medical service record and all this stuff he said quote i realized this was a lot more serious than i could have imagined and i felt dumb at that point well no shit yeah yeah you're sleeping with a problem sir there. There's a huge problem here. So when they asked him, did you help Candy Jo dump a body? He said, fuck no. I didn't help her dump a body.

Are you crazy? No. And they said, well, all right, cool. We'll just give us a DNA present, a DNA sample, so we can clear you. Use a DNA present. A DNA present. Wrap it up. I was going to say, see if there's DNA present.

Yeah. Yeah. We will not accept it without a bow, sir. Sir. Sir. This is, what are you, just give me it in the bag you bought it in? No. You got to get, give me a box or something.

Box and a bow. This is happy birthday wrapping. My birthday's not for eight months. It's Christmas, kid. This is bullshit. So they said, said yeah just give a dna sample and then we clear you out of the way and he said i'd like a lawyer why so but he does meet he does he actually gets a lawyer and then meets with police like he wasn't

he didn't never call them back again he actually gets a lawyer and then comes back he has heard of people going to jail that didn't do a shit that's what i mean which is yeah there's no harm in getting a lawyer yeah it really costs a lot of money but okay it makes you quote look guilty but it also makes you look like you're not going to end up in fucking prison for nothing for fucking 40 years it makes you look quote unquote guilty yeah but it also uh makes the the police do their fucking job right i'd rather look guilty in my living room than an innocent in a prison and look innocent and from go you know have the innocence project trying to help me and shit and have podcasters like going we should really get this guy out i don't think he did it i'd much rather look guilty in my living room happy so

yeah she um wow she said that uh he said now he talks to them with the lawyer, and he said, okay, I talked to Candy since my last time I talked to you. So I talked to you, got on the horn with Candy here. Now she changed her story. Again. So now he's concerned that he's definitely been lied to now, so now he's ready to talk whatever he's got to the cops. he's definitely been lied to now so now he's ready to talk whatever he's got to the cops he says that okay when i talked to her she said she changed her story now she says it was a mercy

killing she had to do it for him oh he said that candy joe told him that aj asked her to kill him so please it's too i can't take it anymore it's i'm sad i got lonely i got i'm in pain so she gave him xanax and ambien until his heart stopped just kept pumping it in until his heart stopped i mean so if you fall asleep with the ambien that's probably not a horrible way to go yeah bean said he didn't believe her though yeah and he said he told her you just killed your grandfather because you wanted his fucking house, dude. You're sick. Yeah.

Because he had willed it to her. Right. So then Garrett Bean says, quote, she told me that he asked her to do it. She'd given him Xanax and Ambien and he passed in his sleep. And once he had a lawyer, he consented to the DNA test. He just wanted to see if that was a smart thing to do or if they were going to now frame him or say he didn't know. So the lawyer said, no, no, give the DNA and so you can clear yourself here. He provided a cell phone for evidence to show that there's no communications and no, I'm, you know, yeah. Oh yeah. Hold on a minute. I'll get the back brace so we can lift up

the toolbox and dump your grandfather easier. So the follow-up interviews with the people who live at the house where the body was found, Brenda Moyer and Abeda there, they said that Candy Joe recently hauled items to the ditch behind the Shenandoah residence and had requested permission from Brenda Moyer on August 23rd to use the ditch to dump trash. Oh. Yes. And here's another thing here. ditch to dump trash oh yes and the here's another thing here bean tells police garrett bean the boyfriend says he thinks he was talking to webb as she was disposing of grandpa's body that is fucked up yep he said it was mid-august a couple months before body was discovered he said that this is the reason now he doesn't know what they, but he said he talks about a trailer with a flat tire, which is a there. So they're like, he's telling

the fucking truth. This is what Bean said, quote, while she was disposing of trash, she had FaceTime me because the tire had blown out on the trailer. I told her to wait for me and I'll help you, but she was very adamant about just getting it done right then.

So she couldn't figure it out. So she just left the trailer and fucking went. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron

and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's

most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast Morbid follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts

you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts it's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band

called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Wow.

On FaceTime. Yeah. That is wild. Imagine mob guys FaceTiming people while they're dumping bodies. She's not good at this. So now Candy's wanted, obviously. Yeah. They want to talk to her.

They still haven't talked to her since she said, I'm getting a lawyer and I'll get right back to you. Okay. Still hasn't talked to her since then. Now there's an arrest warrant issued for her alleging first-degree murder, tampering with evidence, and fraud as well. Uh-oh. So this doesn't go on very long because she's not like a master criminal, obviously. She's pretty bad at this. In four days, she couldn't come up with the name of a retirement home that existed.

Just that existed. That's the only thing she had to do. Right, one that's there. A brick and mortar. In existence, yeah yeah then she could have went with oh no do they have him checked in under the wrong name or she could have drugged that out for a while but it not existing so she is very casey anthony they do find her where do you think they find her i'll give you one guess where'd she go texas No. One more. Arizona. Nope.

Florida, of course. Jacksonville, Florida. Where can I blend in, is what she said. She went to Jacksonville? Jacksonville. Where can I blend in? Ah, Florida. Where Casey Anthony runs wild and free.

Did she go get a job at Universal? So she's in Jacksonville just like like on vacation does she know people she's on the fucking lamb i don't know she probably took her grandfather's money and she's on the lamb there so and chose jacksonville jacksonville is where she picked that's what i mean she was like where will i blend in jacksonville wow so they arrest her and they're they have to extradite her, obviously. Police say Candy wanted this lake house. So that was the thing. They said after Mr. Harden died, she concealed him in a tool chest.

Webb drove to the tool chest. Or Webb drove the tool chest where she discarded the body. They sit her down and she fucking spills it. I mean, what are you going to do with this? Casey Anthony's still lying. So I don't know. You could do that. You can have the balls to make a documentary about how fucked over you are.

That's what you could do. It's so painful for me to live now. People look at me. Because you killed your baby, you fucking idiot. Yes. Of course they look at you like that. Driving around with your steering wheel in the shot that is the most horrific steering wheel I've ever seen in my life. Fuck me.

You're on story 15 now. I don't want to hear it anymore. She's like picking at the steering wheel or something. The thing is so gross. Everybody, yeah, she's picking at it. You know just on the floor there's a pile of foam stuff. Just flakes of steering wheel. So she says this, and I don't know if she says this just to get on the show, because she does get on the show.

But she says, not this show, you'll know what I'm talking about. Quote, I snapped after I saw him dead. Get out of here! She actually used the word. She's like, I really want to be on Oxygen. I just want to be on that show. I watch it all the time. It's my favorite.

That'll be, if I can, is this being recorded, everybody? Because they'll play this in the preview. It'll be awesome. It'll be in the trailer. It'll be in the trailer for it. I know it well. Of every episode. I'm going to get a 12-episode run.

Quote, I snapped after I saw him dead. That would 100% a murderer's voice that's it she said i really didn't mean to do it and i know it looks so malicious and just horrible he's my pawpaw lady i didn't want him to die was i relieved i won't lie. Yeah. She was taking care of him. And that's that is actually the only honest thing she's fucking said, because people don't want to admit it. But when they care for an elderly relative for years, they obviously don't want them to die. But deep down in a spot, they might not tell anyone. But they need to die. They're fucking relieved that for a multitude of reasons. Right.

They obviously weren't doing well. And this was also our whole life. There's that and we're just prolonging the inevitable. This is fucked up. It's a horrible thing. She said, quote, I'm sorry. It was an accident. Everything afterwards, that's fucked

up what I did. Yeah. You got that right. She said what? That's fucked up what I did. But it was an accident. That is so funny. What?

I don't know. Also, too, he's an 83-year-old guy with aggressive, I don't know, aggressive, but he's had cancer for the last three years. Would they have even done an autopsy to him if he died in his sleep or would they have said, is that cancer? Probably natural causes. I mean, honestly, she could have just called the fire department and said he died in his sleep and then went, oh, my God, he must have taken some pills. Yeah. I don't know anything about it. I mean, there's been – it's happened so many times that people with terminal diseases have taken overdoses of their own medication.

Yeah, that's what I mean, on purpose. Yeah, I don't know that they – how could they tell if it was on purpose own medication. That's what I mean. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know that they, how did they tell if it was on purpose or not? That's what I mean. How can they tell if she did it to him or if he did it to himself? And there'd be no evidence to do that. There'd be people that are suspicious, but again,

not guilty in your living room or this, or this shit or sitting in a detective's interrogation office saying everything I did, that was fucked up. What I did. She just, cause she put it off. That's all it was. She didn't want to, she just didn't want to deal with it for a while.

If she just dealt with it the first day. She's lazy. That's the problem. She's terrible. She's really lazy. He said his back was hurting him. I had a few Xanax and muscle relaxers and I gave them to him. But it wasn't't i didn't drug

him i didn't give him that many she said when she checked in on her grandfather after that he wasn't breathing so the cop says this quote when i asked candy why did she tape aj's mouth and wrists yeah why would you duct tape a poor old man who died by accident when he was trying to help her question and she told me because she didn't want man who died by accident when he was trying to help him? It's a dollar question. And she told me because she didn't want to look at his face when she was moving him. And taping his hands was just the easiest way to move him so his arms wouldn't flop all over the place. Yeah, that's a good point.

But she was also wrapped in a blanket. So where were his arms flopping around? What are you talking about? You packaged him like an Amazon return. Yeah, like a poorly put together amazon return so 2021 here her brother who is at this age 38 or at this point 38 aaron is arrested by the new mexico state police saying that him and a man named case Cortez, a 31-year-old, are arrested for homicide. Who'd they kill? Not of AJ, of somebody else.

What? Yes. On February 8, 2021, the Investigation Bureau was contacted to investigate the death of a man pronounced dead at Plain Regional Medical Center in Clovis. State police said during the investigation they learned that in the early morning hours of February 5, Cortez and Aaron Hardin went to Gutierrez's house in Fort Sumner. Michael Gutierrez is the victim here, age 26. He grew up in Fort Sumner. He went to school there, graduated high school there, went to junior college for a while. He started working in the oil fields, and he did monitoring of oil rigs.

That was his job. He worked for Madryn Oil Services, Cavalos Cajun Oil Services, and Closed Loop Services. And everybody called him Ocean, Michael, apparently. So here's what happened. Harden and Cortez confronted Gutierrez for allegedly stealing a shitload of methamphetamine from a friend of theirs why are you friends new mexico come to new mexico we kill our grandpas and steal meth from our friends that's right new mexico it's gotta be down to new mexico you gotta want it you gotta want new mexico You gotta want it. You gotta want it.

New Mexico, you gotta want it. So Harden and Cortez kidnapped Gutierrez, took him to the residence of their friend whom he allegedly stole the methamphetamine from, and while they were there, Cortez began attacking Gutierrez,

pistol-whipping him with a handgun. Oh my. Harden then grabbed a garden hose began attacking Gutierrez pistol whipping him with a handgun oh my Harden then grabbed a garden hose and started beating Gutierrez with that Gutierrez tried to defend himself so Harden tackled him to the ground then got up grabbed a

hammer and continued to beat Gutierrez with a fucking hammer about the head and face holy Gutierrez with a fucking hammer about the head and face. Holy. Gutierrez, somehow severely beaten, makes it back to his house somehow. Yikes. He then admits himself to a local hospital in Santa Rosa on February 7th, 2021. So that's two days later.

Yeah. He was treated for his injuries and released. But then Monday, his mother noticed his speech was slurred and his skin was pale. Yeah. He's having a stroke. So they took him back to the hospital and he was pronounced dead from his injuries within a couple of days. Internal bleeding or whatever. Yeah.

Fucking scrambled his eggs. I mean, that's horrible. So the police searched the home. They found a garden hose and multiple hammers, some with blood on them. They arrest Cortez and Harden, who both refused to speak with police and immediately asked for attorneys. That means they're hardened criminals. No pun intended. The guy who owned the home told police Gutierrez stole meth from him.

stole meth from him and then Harden and Cortez brought Gutierrez to the house where they tortured him and Harden, Aaron Harden considered in a way to figure out to get the meth back he considered severing one of the guy's toes as a What is his deal? Start cutting toes

off till we get to the point where you tell me where the meth is. Oh my This family's fucked up. Make more man Dude, yeah, that's what i mean get some disgusting things and put it in your disgusting whatever you do and make your shit barrel bathtub toilet whatever you're doing whatever you're doing man so an arrest warrant is issued for them obviously and they are arrested they're booked on murder in the second degree kidnapping conspiracy to commit kidnapping and an assault with intent to commit a violent felony.

Right. Lots of shit. They haven't gone to trial yet. 2022, back to Candy here. Yeah. She's like, oh, wow, cool. We're both in prison now. Excellent.

So she is considering a plea agreement. She is considering a plea agreement. The special prosecutor said the agreement calls for Webb to plead guilty of charges of second-degree murder, tampering with evidence, and fraud. If she agrees to the deal, she'll face a maximum sentence of 21 years in prison. So she ends up deciding to do it, and she does. She takes that deal because, honestly, what else are you going to get? That's a great deal for her. They don't need to make that deal with her.

They have her admitting everything. All sorts of evidence. She said everything I did was fucked up. Did it for money, which is bad. Oh, boy. So in arguing for the maximum sentence, the prosecutor alleged cruelty in the slaying of her grandfather and in the mishandling of his body by placing it and dumping it in a trash pit. That doesn't sound real nice to do to your beloved grandpa.

So, when your relatives die, let's say your grandparents die, because my grandmother died a couple years ago, we cared what happened to her body. We didn't say, I don't know, just throw it in a field somewhere. We took it and buried it, put it in a wall or whatever the fuck we did with it there

at the cemetery, put it in a fucking wall. And we had a thing and we all sat there and we talked about it. That's what you do with people you love. Yeah. Just because a person's dead doesn't mean that the vehicle they were in isn't valuable also. It's not a pet rabbit. You know what I mean? It's a fucking grandparent.

It's a fucking grandparent. So, I mean, anyway, they also said that the lying to everyone that knows him, lying to a family, lying to law enforcement showed a big lack of remorse. Also, her attempt to escape to Florida. She obviously didn't feel too fucking bad about it. And the lack of ability to describe exactly what happened, saying a few and not that many. What are you talking about some vague retirement homes from because i've taken a few muscle relaxers before guess who's talking still yeah a few didn't mean enough to stop your heart probably right no i took three of you that's a lot yeah so the her defense attorney though th Benavidez, he said that her conduct while in jail for the past year has shown how much she's trying to improve herself.

So we should really just push this whole thing aside. He said, quote, she's been in jail for a year and nine months. She's had a lot of time to think about what she did. She's been seeking help. She's had a lot of time to think about what she did. She's been seeking help. They said that while in jail, Webb has taken life skills and parenting classes to be able to be a better mother to her six-year-old daughter. She's got a kid.

Yeah, the kid wasn't around. I'm sure the kid's been put in a home or taken away or something. With her father. Hopefully with her father, yeah, or something. She even helped a fellow inmate who was having breathing difficulty. Oh, wow. Wow. Gave her a bunch of Xanax and sat on a pillow on her face. Dumped the body in the cafeteria.

That's how it worked. So they said while in jail, it has made her a, quote, changed woman. Oh, boy. She is good now. Let's just say that. Already a year. They said that, you know what? She's done, her improvement in the last year and nine months has been so rapid, you should just give her probation.

Okay. Probation you should give her. That is shooting your shot. Wow, that's ballsy. That is fucking balls. And that her year and nine months in jail should be sufficient time to be incarcerated. That's good, I think, right? Wow.

Tommy Harden, who is Webb's uncle, AJ's son, it's like Webb's dad's brother, Candy's dad's brother, told the court, quote, doing time is wasted time. But AJ was loved by his family, was having a difficult time due to age and cancer. But still, this is, you know, I'd like her to be put away. She, Candy Jo, reads a letter to the court that expresses remorse for her crimes and other things, too. Now, the prosecutor reads a letter to the court from Webb to her boyfriend. reads a letter to the court from Webb to her boyfriend at one point. We're talking about all this, where she describes herself as a, quote, psychopath, incapable of remorse, and indicated she was considering suicide as well.

Holy. Because she'll never be able to have any remorse, and that's bad. Yeah, it is bad. I found out I'm Ted Bundy. I don't like it. I need probation. And they're like, just put her on probation. She'll be good. She's got a kid.

Let her deal with the kid. We really want that kid to be around her a lot. You know what I mean? It's good for her. She admitted to psychopathy. That child's in danger. Wow. And having no remorse at all. Wow.

Incapable of remorse. The judge said that he considered three factors in passing down the sentence he's about to give. First, he said, was retribution and punishment. Sure. And he would go on by, he said he would go by existing legislation, taking into account the crime and the mistreatment of her grandfather's body. Second, he said, was deterrence. So the message the sentence would send to the community about the crime. You can't just kill grandpa so you can get his house a couple years earlier.

That's not okay. Just because someone's old doesn't mean their life isn't worth anything. Right. But sentencing also, that's the thing. Should sentencing go on the life that you took? Like if you kill a baby, that baby could add 90 years and you should get a lot of time. Whereas if you kill someone that's like 96, how much longer could they have possibly had should you get more time than they would have had i don't know it's a question for the ages but you're killing a vulnerable person

which makes you even scarier yeah so i don't know to take somebody's last couple of days weeks months years that's that seems way worse to me then well it's vulnerable too it's a person who's vulnerable that's why it's awful so he said third was rehabilitation he talks to candy joe and he says you have been working hard to become a better person i think you are remorseful i think you have shown you can be rehabilitated you ma'am may fuck off 18 years in prison so you can do it you can finish rehabilitating in there you show you can be rehabilitated we're gonna go ahead and put it to the test we're gonna give it a shot we're gonna give it a shot this is 15 years in prison for second degree murder plus three years for tampering with evidence and mishandling the body and three years of probation for fraud so that

will that will happen once she gets out so even even if she does 18 years, she still has three years of having to go see somebody and keep them in the mix. The maximum sentence was 21 years, but he wanted there to be a time when she has to go see somebody. Yeah. So he also gives her time credit served for 659 days spent in jail while this happened, while this proceeded through the court system. Just under two years? Just under two years. So that, everybody, is Fort Sumner, New Mexico, where this fucking family is disintegrated. I mean, this is a mess.

Everybody's dead. Everybody's dead or in jail for killing them. Yeah. And she was right about her brother. He is a fucking problem. It's the only thing that she told that's the truth. He murdered a man over meth. Think about how-

Over somebody else's meth. Someone else's meth. How'd you take this guy's meth? Let me beat you with a hammer? What are you, fucking insane? Wow. This is a fucked up family, man. And we don't even know how many pills she gave that man.

Yeah. Think about the people who were left, like the uncle. Yeah. His dad's dead. Everybody's fucking dead or has killed them. I feel terrible for these people. Anybody who's still alive in this family, especially if you're in that area, now everyone knows about it. There's only 1,300 people here.

New Mexico, you got to want it. You killed two people in two years just in this family. Jesus. That's nuts, so you got to want it. So there you go, everybody. That is Fort Sumner, New Mexico. Do you get it? Do you get it?

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