Small Town Murder - #469 - A Quantity Of Horror - Big Lake Township, Minnesota

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

This week, in Big Lake Township, Minnesota, the horrible & gruesome discovery of a murder leads police in circles, with the case quickly going cold. There is plenty of DNA, but it doesn't match any of the suspects. After almost 10 years, a witness comes forward with the smallest of tips, that leads to a local Cub Scout leader, with an interesting past, and a very strange story, that doesn't quite add up. Will scientific findings put the whole case in jeopardy?Along the way, we find out that it would be hard to run while carrying potatoes, that "a quantity" is the grossest way to describe an amount of a bodily fluid, and that its hard to fight science... until the scientist is wrong!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Big Lake Township, Minnesota, many people are suspects when a woman is brutalized in her own home, but it takes an unlikely tip to solve this entire mess after 10 long years welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us on an absolutely insane show this week. As usual, we have mayhem lined up for you and jokes to go with it.

So it's wild stuff. Let's get after it. Quickly, before we get to that, shutupandgivememurder.com. What's that? It's where you go for everything, Jimmy. The merch, everything from coffee mugs to skateboards and especially tickets to live shows.

Oh, yeah. First up, tickets are on sale right now. They went on sale February 22nd for the virtual live show. Right. 420 virtual live show. Can't wait for that. Crazy story. Plus weird smoking apparatus that I will whip out and scare the shit out of

jimmy with and make him smoke out of and we'll have a costumes it's going to be a lot of fun so do that add tickets for the rest of the year's regular live shows too they're going fast couple are sold out already so get them right now minnesota minneapolis if you sell this out it will be our biggest live show ever so we get asked all the time what's the biggest live show you ever did we will be able to say minnesota minneapolis so come in and beat chicago because right now they're our current winner so do that and it'll be a lot of fun we can't wait also just all of them they're getting they're getting sold quick shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of that stuff. You'll also want Patreon.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all the bonus material. Tons of stuff there. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get a whole big back catalog. A couple hundred episodes to binge on. New ones every other week. This week is no different, which you're going to get this week for Crime and Sports, which you'll have access to. You're going to get personal ads. It has nothing to do with sports.

It's a lot of fun, so you'll love it. We talk about people used to, before apps and such, people used to just put an ad in the newspaper and say, please like me. I'm this. I hope you're that. And it's hilarious, some of these ads. We can't wait to get to it from over the years.

And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about a very odd story, the story of the Collier brothers. I don't know if you've ever heard of them or not, but they are these strange brothers, very large brothers, who basically hold themselves up inside a Manhattan brownstone for decades, including one of them was dead in there.

What? And when they finally had to take them out, they had to take walls out to remove them, and it was just a maze of newspapers. It was nuts what was going on inside this place. So we'll talk all about that. The Collier Brothers. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show, too. You bet. Jimmy's going to mess up your name. Sure. He absolutely will. Don't think he won't. It's my gift to you. That's our gift to you is to get your name

all screwed up so do that and uh that said i think it's time for the disclaimer well i certainly want that oh by the way listen to your stupid opinions in crime and sports our other two shows are goddamn hilarious so uh disclaimer we're comedians for sure we can't help it this is a comedy show uh but at the same time the comedy does not mean that the story isn't real the story is unfortunately as real as it could possibly be nothing is embellished for comedic effect or any bullshit like that we don't do any of that stuff here and we didn't we know what else we don't do we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's family why is that because we're assholes yeah but but we're not scumbags that's how that goes so if that

sounds good to you you're gonna hear a wild story and some funny stuff if you think that true crime and comedy should never ever go together i don't know maybe turn it off or listen and be pleasantly surprised either way no bitching later that said i think it's time everybody to sit back let me say let's all clear the lungs i don't care what you clear the lungs. I don't care what you're doing out there. I don't care what you're doing. You're dipping French fries for McDonald's. I want you to take the fry basket out, fling them all over the kitchen, arms to the sky, and let's all shout, Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody. What do you say? Let's go on a trip. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do this, everybody. What do you say? Let's go on a trip. Yeah, let's do that. Let's do it. We are going to Minnesota, everyone. Okay. We will be in September doing a live show.

Right. And hopefully it will be our biggest live show of all time. It's a beautiful new venue. It's nice. We can't wait. This is Big Lake Township, Minnesota. So when you say township, do people not say that part? Well, they do because it's specific because there's also a big lake, which is six minutes away.

So rather than just be one town and pick something, they have two separate towns right next to each other. Big Lake and Big Lake Township, which you can't tell me that no confusion comes from that with people i mean point of that that's ridiculous and it's supposed to be nice up there in minnesota make some compromises and join together here's the thing here's the thing about minnesotans they are thrilled to know where it is do you know what i mean like if you're if you're in if you're in the know of where something is they're really proud of that they're happy yeah if i say meet me at joe's and it's in big lake and there's one of you know which one i mean they do i'll see you there yeah maybe who knows otherwise you mean

township and you left that off and that's that you you'll know and we're gonna be two ships you know you know yeah god damn minnesota god damn it 50 minutes to minneapolis yeah so right there about 40 minutes to crystal which was our last episode, which was the bloodiest present under the tree. I remember that was a pretty gross one there. The Christmas tree. That was a wild thing to discover in your living room. This is in

Sherbourne County, area code 763. Motto, and they do have a little motto here, a place to grow. It is. Plenty of room out here, so feel free. Get as big as you want, is what they're telling a little motto here. Yeah. A place to grow. It is. Plenty of room out here. So feel free. Get as big as you want is what they're telling you. Yeah.

Get as big. You could be seven foot five out here. Plenty of room for you. We'll build you a big barn with high clearance. Don't sweat it. History of this place. It was organized in 1858, this town. Okay.

Been around a while here. Now, the area delineated by Big Lake Township was first settled in 1848, and it was called Humboldt. And they decided to... Oh, leave the county. Yeah, and they decided to fuck it up and be confusing, I'm sure, later on. Thanks, guys. Well, two villages pop up. One is Orono, an Elk River village.

And then they decided to... They had, in 1867, a county vote to move the county seat from Humboldt to Elk River. We know, I'm sure there was bloodshed over that because every time a county seat moves, forget, you're moving our records, we're going to shoot at your carriage as you ride away. So that was designated as Lower Town in the vote to distinguish it from Morono. They also, in 1867, the village of Humboldt changed its name from Humboldt to Big Lake.

Yeah. Now, there's also a Big Lake township that that ended up being, but then there's also a Big Lake. And they're six minutes apart. So, completely pointless is what we're getting at.

What the fuck, guys? I don't know what they're doing. Reviews of this town. Here we go. Let's find out what other people think because we've never been there. How are we supposed to know? Never been.

Never been. Have no way of knowing. Here's five stars. Extremely safe neighborhood and caring residents. Is that right? Safe and caring. Big Lake was recently named

one of the safest cities in the state of Minnesota. Local law enforcement is on top of everything and work very well with forming relationships with the community. Properties in Big Lake Township are typically very secluded and private. Schools in the area are subpar, nothing too special. A little spread out. So it's a lot of land out here. Not a lot going on.

Four stars. Big Lake Township is really nice and quiet. You can easily connect with people here in this area. If you would like to just get some coffee, just go to Ember's Coffee or even go on our or even to our wonderful quick trip. Oh, they've got a QT there. No, quick with a K. Those are the Midwest. Oh, it's that one. So go to quick trip oh they've got a qt there no quick with a k those are the midwest oh it's that one so go to quick trip you can if you want coffee like and you want to just sit down and have a nice gas station there's embers but i mean you can always go to the to our wonderful gas station

there's that too go to the place of the sticky floor yeah do that that's the best coffee it's mocha's the special today or or just you know own a mr coffee and press start make it at home because it's the same shit you're getting a quick trip it's just coffee four stars there are police around every corner in this town that sounds great no i don't like that get the fuck out of here what are you looking at every corner go away what do you want once in a while have them pop up i don't need them every corner what is that about i guess that means there's zero crime here the cops are on every corner if there is any crime the cops are really terrible at it because the

worst they're on everywhere and they're good at responding well yeah because they're five feet away right half a block away at most at most why you call? He's right there. Just go out. Hello. Just go tell him. You'll feel very safe all through this town. That's a guarantee. Oh. This person personally guaranteed this. Well, you're going to have to track down old four star here and find out what the fuck happened.

You're going to give me my money back? Yeah, that's a guarantee from me. Ted from the quick trip. I'm telling you right now uh three stars need new places to open up we only have two real restaurants need some five guys or panera or something to come in imagine being so desperate for five for five just five. I really am craving Panera. I need it right here. I'd take a two guys for Christ's sake. I just need a cheeseburger around here. Three, four guys.

However many guys want to come here is fine with me. Some tomato soup and a baguette. Anybody? Anything? Nothing? Just a car. Give me a truck. Is there a taco truck in this town?

Five guys or Panera. Oh, boy. Then three stars. The schools in this area need work. That's the whole review. Oh. So rural, not a lot of restaurants, mediocre schools is what I'm getting from the reviews. Yeah, got it.

Okay. People in this town, 7,886. That's a small place. It's gone up a lot recently. It's up 10, really. We'll talk about it. Yeah, when our crime happened, there was not nearly as many people here. The male, female, few more females than males, but kind of above average amount, too, like more than the spacing usually is.

Median age is a couple years older than the national average, nothing crazy. 66% married here, though. That's high. It's usually 50-50 in the rest of the country very low divorce rate 4.2 are divorced here which is way below the average so this is you move here and you stay married god damn it like yeah there's not even a five guy so if you take that shit serious if you get divorced it's going to be real hard to find somebody else so you just stick together there's nowhere to go nowhere to find anybody i haven't even heard a divorce uh single with children only 3.8 which is i think the lowest i've ever seen in our entire

history of the show didn't even i can't even fathom how small that is. That's nobody. They don't get divorced. They stick together. Race of this town, 96.9% white. So small town in Minnesota. What do you want there? 0.1% black, 1.2% Asian, 0.6% Hispanic. White. Really?

White. Yeah. Yeah. This is very much, this whole thing is like the the like the the cast of coach which was set in minnesota it's very very white yeah this is uh interesting so religion in this town lower than the national average 50 50s national average this is a 39 religious and uh lutheran wins the day here the most lutherans that's two weeks in a row where lutheranship has taken the fucking prize but it's also in the north like that that's where it's at

where they are yeah where they are up there and a few catholics around too uh what there aren't any 0.0 is jewish people not at all nothing happened in there uh in sherbourne County, last election, 32.5% of the people voted Democrat, 65.1% Republican, 2.4% Independent. Median household income here. Okay. National average is $69,021. Here it is $119,111 a year. Fucking throttling the country. They're doing very well here. What are they doing? Very well. And the cost of living is pretty close to average, too. That's the thing.

The only thing that's a little high is housing. Median home cost here, $448,300. Are they just exporting ice? What are they? Well, you're only outside an hour to Minneapolis. So you're successful in Minneapolis. You have a big house out here on a lake. I guess, yeah.

Yeah, that's what I assume. Yeah, you have to be successful to buy a big property out here. I mean, $448,000, if you're making $119,000 a year, you can probably swing that, I guess. So maybe you can swing it. And if you can, go ahead and try it, because we have for you the Big Lake Township, Minnesota Real Estate Report. I said go ahead and try it like it was a challenge.

Like, go ahead and try it, bitch. You want to move to this motherfucker? I do challenge you it's fucking cold this is chilly your average two-bedroom rental here 1290 a month which is a little bit above the national average but not crazy uh these are all listings from big lake not big lake township because there's couldn't find anything from there so big lake here here's two bedroom two baths so t-ball for each and every B-Hole, which is nice. But it's only 1,056 square feet. So your B-Holes are going to be pretty close to each other anyway.

So it really doesn't matter. They're almost touching. It's very green, which is strange. It's not bad inside. It's hardwood floors and stuff like that. It looks pretty clean, pretty nice. You can move right in and you don't have to do anything. Kitchen's a little outdated, but not terrible.

$240,000 for that, though. My Christ. That is high for what you're getting, too. It's a small lot. It's not a lot of land or anything. Next up, four-bedroom, four-bath. That's T-Bowl for all you b-holes there. Yeah.

3,466 square feet. Oh. Spread out room, 4.84 acres, too. Fucking yeah. Yeah, it's nice. It's a big log too. Fucking yeah. It's nice. It's a big log cabin looking joint. It's nice. It's set well back from the road. The driveway's set back and up a hill to

this place. There is a sign. I don't know if this comes with it or not. You have to ask the agent, but on the porch there's a sign that says porch in case you were confused. In case you get lost. In case you weren't sure exactly where you were in the house. I don't know. You can ask.

I'm sure they'll throw it in for a couple extra bucks. Maybe that's what they're doing is unloading Alzheimer's Grandpa's house. They just labeled every room. Where are we? God damn it, Grandpa. I know you can't remember, but you can still read, right? Shit. $510,000 for that, though.

Oh, wow. It'll cost you. Then we have five-bedroom, four-bath, 3,390 square feet, 20.22 acres. Shit. It's a big, gray, newish-looking house. I don't know. Just boring. Just a big, kind of boring, new, big house.

But the land is, I guess, the draw here. Fuck yeah, it is. $675,000 for that, though. But 20 acres. That's 20 acres of land. That sounds amazing. Yeah, you can't get anything close to that in Phoenix. You couldn't even get that 3,300 square foot house on a fucking tiny lot in Phoenix.

Jesus. No, no, no, no, no, no. So that is actually not terrible. That's impressive. That's impressive. Things to do here. Oh, boy. Right away, you got the Big Lake Spud Run.

Oh, running for taters. Now, are you running for... I was just going to ask. This brings to mind what exactly... Are you running for potatoes? The first person to get somewhere gets more... Are you running with potatoes? The person that carries 40 pounds of potatoes the farthest wins?

Are you running from potatoes? Are you running... That's what farthest wins are you running from potatoes are you running that's what i mean are you running from potatoes or the potatoes the things running maybe you got to dress up like a big potato i don't know i mean this is very confusing i need american gladiators to shoot them from potato cannons that would be great at people dressed like potatoes fuck yeah yes. In a potato sack. In a big potato costume with just their arms and legs sticking out, you know,

like the big drink on Reno 911. Because that's funny when you hit one of those. They fall down. They can't get up. That's fun. Like a mascot. Yeah, this is the Big Lake Spud Run is organized by a separate group of,

they say, quote, a separate group of dedicated individuals and is not affiliated with the Big Lake Spud Run is organized by a separate group of, they say, quote, a separate group of dedicated individuals and is not affiliated with the Big Lake Spud Fest. Don't you dare lump us in there with those fucking perverts. Because what they do to potatoes, I don't even want to tell you. This came along after the Spud Fest. This was, I'm sure. Well, listen, we're not with them. Or the other way around.

They're like, listen. They're trying to sue us, we're not with them. Or the other way around. They're like, listen, there's new... They're trying to sue us, and we're just not. Or they're mad that these new spud people have come along, and they're like, listen, trying to ride our coattails. We're the original. All new potatoes over here. Yeah. They say all the money they raised for this event,

I don't even know what goes on. I guess you run. It's a run. I don't know how you pay for that. I don't know. What do you buy? Proud to um this group and wish them a great turnout that's all it says they're gonna dedicate the money back at the big lake spud fest you meet at a pub at 8 a.m you have breakfast and then it's kickstand they have

the spud run motorcycle run to kickstands kickstands up at 10 30 30 per rider and 30 per passenger for you to 60 for one bike if you've got to so you can to what to what so you can ride it and then they give that money back to so you can ride on the pavement that you already paid taxes for and they have the balls to say includes free breakfast no No, you paid $60 for that breakfast. What are you talking about? You paid $60 for an $8 breakfast is what you did. Don't say free. Say includes.

What is this benefiting? Don't say free. The lake. Oh, we're going to throw the money in the lake. Yeah, it likes it. The lake is an entity. When you throw the money in, you hear it go, mmm, and it likes it.

It'll give you good jet skiing weather after that. It's a very... Did you know anything? It likes it. That's how it works. Next up, Wild West Days, which is in Zimmerman, which is 10 minutes away. They said, in the fall of 1970,

a small group of Zimmerman residents decided to create a fundraising community group with the expressed purpose of providing community aid ranging from projects like helping local volunteer fire department to providing help for families in need. They're all another. We're helping. We're helping. Their ultimate goal was to purchase a piece of land and erect a community building on it. Yeah. We're such children the word erect didn't need to be you can't say that you could have said put up you could have

said and bill either i mean there's a whole construct established there's so many words erect is just you chose hard dick words you chose to add a dick in there um so yeah this is what they do and uh they have all sorts of things they say they have an old-fashioned street dance they have main street closed down bands play continuously from 1 p.m to 1 a.m so oh my god local bands for 12 straight hours 12 fucking hours that sounds horrifying um absolutely horrifying they also said how starved are they for entertainment no shit they had a baking contest a pie eating contest okay and um they said a beard contest for the nicest looking beard not the longest they said that's just in case fucking relative

well yeah and also um they said uh it was judged by pretty ladies is the way they put it when they have beard guns, which is hilarious. Nope, not pretty enough. Very relative. Hilarious. They had a demolition derby as well. Okay. A poster contest, obviously. A Buffalo Bill and Calamity Jane lookalike contest.

What? I don't know how you – that that's all in the clothes i feel like nobody really yeah that's not in the does anybody really know what buffalo bill looked like with their cameras that there weren't any cameras they had the old they have old pictures but they're not you can't tell no one's no one's like oh i know that one it's not like abe lincoln or something yeah you can't pick that motherfucker out of a lineup. No, that's what I mean. It's the best Old West outfit is what they should say. Best hat and scarf look. What do you got?

Put it together. Best most realistic holsters. So they have that. They have a horse show, a shooting contest and gallery with fastest draw and sharp shooting. Real men, real guns. I don't like that at all.'s getting shot over that yeah there's a there's gonna be an accident how fast how fast can you grab and fire this gun somebody's gonna shoot that motherfucker into the ground someone's gonna lose and get mad i think and shoot the guy next to him or there's that fuck you todd powell just shoot this guy um they also used to have a citizens auction and

bizarre quote held on roy's front lawn so you gotta know where roy was and you can go there minnesota you gotta know where roy's front lawn is and also they had uh what was this? Oh, yes. An event called Too Fat to Polka. I like that. So that's fun, too. Yeah. Some of the bands here very quickly. To go over the bands, we have live music. On the Rocks is playing on Friday night.

Fantastic. It's a drinking band right there. Yeah. We do a drinking band. Live music 6 to 10 on Saturday. They don't even say who it is. So it's not even on the Rocks. You're all here just to drink anyway that's it you don't care and then uh yeah looks like they won't tell us any other any other uh bands that are playing here crime rate

in this town property crime is about half the national average oh so pretty safe and it's all spread out i don't know what the hell they could be doing to each other here. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about a quarter of the national average. So safe. These people have so much money, and they don't care about anything. They don't even get divorced here. Never mind hurting each other. They're just looking forward to next year with On the Rocks.

That's all you can do. That said, let's talk about some awful, awful murder. Jesus, this was absolutely brutal here. Okay, let's talk about a lady first. All right, let's talk about a woman named Linda Elizabeth Halverson. Now, Linda, she's born June 16, 1952. And she's from this area. She's from the area you know um she's from like the minneapolis suburbs area yeah um

she meets a guy named charles jensen in kindergarten really in kindergarten they they meet and you know you go to kindergarten with people and they know each other all through school and they start hanging out they're the the same age. They went to kindergarten together, obviously. They first got together, though, and were in a relationship when they were both at a relative's, one of their relative's cabins near Spicer when they were about 12. And then they just stayed together. Okay. Not both of their relatives' places. I would hope not. Both relatives' places.

That's not good. They're not related that I know of. Okay. Not both of their relatives' plays. I would hope not. Both relatives' plays, that's not good. They're not related that I know of. Okay, all right. Yeah, no, they seem to be of separate gene pools, to say the least of them anyway. Linda Elizabeth Halverson. That is a fascinating name. I don't think I've ever met anybody that has an L in all three of their names, and then her L keeps moving one position further in each name. Yeah, one, two, three, Halverson. That is wild. That's interesting. And then her L keeps moving one position further in each name. Yeah.

One, two, three. Halverson. Yeah. That is wild. That's interesting. So they're hooked up from 12. Okay. That's the truth, right?

Charlie and Triple L hooked up from 12, and they stay together. And when they're, I guess, about 19, April 4th, 1971, they get married. Holy. Since they were 12. That's the seventh grade. Known each other since they were five. Five. I mean, you meet people and later on, whatever, I've known her all through school.

But to be in a relationship with someone since the seventh grade, all through junior high, all through high school, that's insane. You remember those couples? All through junior high, all through high school. That's insane. You remember those couples? My grandfather met my grandmother freshman year of high school, and he said, I'm going to marry her. And he did. What was that, 1947? That's the last time I've ever heard that.

That's what I mean. That's what I mean. That's a long fucking time ago. 1958, I think. But that's insane to go. That's nuts. Remember in high school when we were in high school, those couples that were together all through high school? It's like, wow, that is crazy.

Those people that are together for years and then you find out they broke up right after high school. I knew three of them that stayed together through high school, got married, and then by the time they were drinking age, it was over. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. What the hell do you have in common? Yeah. If you're the same when you're 21 that you are when you're 12, then that's an issue. There's problems there. You need to fucking

grow up or something. So, they get married, though, and they're together. 1974-ish, they have a son named Andrew. So they have a son together. By 1979, things are rocky for Charles and Linda, though. It's not going well. And the main reason, and this is what Charlie says, too.

So this isn't just Linda going, this is what happened. It's bitter people from a divorce. Usually, if there's a divorce and one person's talking shit and she's like, man, he's going, well, she did. But I don't really believe either of them. Yeah. But when one of them's like, oh, I fucked up bad. Here's what I did. I believe that usually.

Here's the thing. Yeah. Here's some shit I did wrong that would probably cause this. That's what Charlie says. Charlie says that he couldn't let go of the drinking and partying of his youth he couldn't quit couldn't quit which i mean charlie charlie's a guy when he finds something he likes he sticks to it finds a girl when he's 12 sticks to it sticks to it booze at 14 i like it sticking with it not gonna retire quit yeah charlie's motto is i will not grow that's his motto no growth no advancement that's a promise that's that's a promise so they end up

getting a divorce in 1979 over this and that actually happens it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine

and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been

investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Now she's going to get married again. She's going to get remarried and ends up divorced pretty quickly, as we'll find out, because she there's there's some issues.

She says there's some abuse issues and stuff like that. The second one. Well, the second I'm sorry, the second one, she marries a guy named Robert Beard. Yeah, they have a child named Joey together. Now, their issue is Linda said Robert had been abusive from the start and she wanted to get away from him pretty quickly after Joey was born. Joey has some issues. At six weeks old, Joey has a stroke that causes some permanent disabilities on Joey. Yeah, he's got issues.

We'll just put it that way. Yeah, he's not quite all there. So that's tough. That's going to be tough on a marriage anyway. And then if you throw an abuse on top of it, then that's not going to last long here. So she moves away from him, takes Joey, and moves away. All right.

Then she gets married again in 1986, Linda does. Sure. She finds a guy named John Silman, and they move to California. Are they taking Joey? Yes, they take Joey with them. She always takes Joey with her wherever she goes. And Sillman ends up adopting him when they get married too. Terrific.

So that's nice. She's trying to move on and all of that. Robert Beard, the first husband, actually relinquishes his parental rights. Really? So he can be adopted by the new husband in exchange for forfeiting any child support for him. That's nice. Which is a big deal because Joey's got a lifetime of medical problems that are going to be expensive.

So to extricate himself from those bills is a big deal if he's not going to see his son and all that kind of shit, whatever. If he's not planning to be a great father for that that's what i mean and it's a big deal for the other guy is to adopt a kid like that because now you're responsible for him like that so that's taking on that responsibility big deal much bigger than just being a father oh absolutely yeah it's being a father and then and then and then you know and then more right and so many more things it's a lot it's a lot so they this relationship only lasts a couple of years though this marriage they get married in 86 by 88 ish it's over okay so these are two very short-lived marriages that she

is in now so it's it's kind of tough now throughout all of this here, because of their son Andy, Charlie and Linda have stayed friends. They were never vicious, brutal enemies or anything like that. They just, I mean, when people get married very young like that, they have a better chance of being friends later. Is that right? Yeah, like my parents, they were together in high school and they got married young. And then, you know, they were friends always. Yeah, that's a great point. Because they were always like, I mean, Jesus, what were we thinking?

Obviously it wasn't going to end well. We got married when we were too young and we, you know, duh. Had I married bed puddle and broke up with her, I'd probably not be mad at her. That's what I mean, yeah. But I got married way later and boy, do I not like that woman. No, yeah, that's way worse yeah yeah yeah but you know if you met her in the 10th grade you'd probably have less acrimony there yeah i'd have understanding for why she doesn't like me and she'd probably have understanding why i don't like her

based on the the person we've grown into over the last fucking yeah way too many form formidable you and if it was bed puddle think about how many mattresses you'd have gone through. Oh, Christ. I would have needed Casper to sponsor us this entire time. I was going to say, when we first started, we had all those mattresses. Please, can I get a new one? Whenever I'd get one, I'd have to ship it to your house.

I got another mattress. Send them to Jimmy's. Send all my mattresses to Jimmy's house. Remember when we had all those mattresses? At one point, we each had like four brand new mattresses at our houses,. Remember when we had all those mattresses? At one point, we each had like four brand new mattresses at our houses. And we were like, I don't know what to do with these mattresses. I was giving, I gave the last mattress away like last year to somebody. Because I was like, I don't need all these fucking mattresses. Need a queen?

Got you covered. Don't move. We're like, what? My kids are like, I'll strip your bed. Why? No, I don't want another mattress. Yes, another new mattress. We try a bunch of them.

This one's not bad. I like the last one better. This one's different. Try it. Every six months, they come at us with a new mattress sponsor. Without even asking us, just mattresses would show up in our houses. And we're like, okay, well, I guess I got a mattress to deal with now. Calling my mom.

Mom, you want another mattress? Oh, man, I guess I got a mattress to deal with now. Calling my mom. Mom, you want another mattress? Oh, man, I was really trying to get those mattresses away. So they weren't bad. I'm not saying that. No, they're great mattresses. But how many can you have in your house? Yeah. Unless I'm going to put it across my kitchen table and eat off of it.

I don't really have much use for more mattresses. I mostly accidentally sleep on my couch. So I've only slept on that mattress like seven times. That's the problem. So mattresses aside, they're all – everybody's kind of – they still stay friends and everything like that. And she is back in this area, and so is he. So is Charlie. So Charlie and Linda, in about 1989, they rekindle their romance.

Yes. They get back together. Charlie. So Charlie and Linda, in about 1989, they rekindle their romance. What? Yes. They get back together. After all, they've been divorced for 10 years. Yeah, but what about Joey? Joey, he's there too. Yeah, but I mean, now he's got to relinquish his rights too. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that guy got divorced. It's a mess. Yeah. Jesus Christ. This Joey has gotten relinquished a couple of times now.

He's the most relinquished boy in the Midwest. I'll say that much. So they do all this. They rekindle themselves. And Charlie has been sober now. He works construction. He's been sober for a few years and turned his life around. And he's a more responsible guy who doesn't go out drinking every night. More more of a family ready to be a family man here so yeah linda said told

everybody that he was the man that she first fell in love with or the boy she first fell in love he's the prepubescent child that i first fell in love with now. That's much better. You can't say that when someone you got together with is 12. Be in need of a babysitter boy that I fell in love with first. That kid. You know him. The kid who was failing science class I fell in love with first. The kid who didn't know his ABCs, for Christ's sake.

No shit. So in 1990, Linda's pregnant again oh my linda and charlie are gonna have their second her third yeah how old is joey uh joey is at that time i look like seven okay yeah yeah six six or seven something like that so fucking hell. Yeah. At least they're spaced. That's good. That's helpful. But she had one with the other guy, too. No, no.

She had Joey with the first guy and she did not have a child with the third husband. No children from that marriage. All right. So they get married again on April 4th, 1991, the 20-year anniversary of their first marriage. They get married again. She waddles down the aisle. She's seven months pregnant, and they get married for a second time. Happy anniversary, Mazel Tov to you.

At least you won't forget what day we got married. Never. It's always April 4th. Never be confusing ever. Never. A couple months later they have a daughter named lisa so now they have uh joey and lisa here uh by this time andy has moved out and does his thing because he's 18 19 so he's not living with them at this point he's

doing his own business here so uh and linda's nine's nine year old son, Joey's living with them at that point. Got it. So here that that's the crew, Lisa, Joey, Charlie, Linda. Yeah.

And they're all in the, in the same house here. And, uh, Charlie's a carpenter. Like I said, Andrew lives half hour away ish, something like that. Okay.

So it's very nice. They've been, they've been doing well since they got remarried. Linda has been working at home uh quote at a at the home for the retarded at elk river fantastic so that's where she's working and um in 1991 1991 yeah so the she's helping out down there and uh she's also a licensed dental hygienist that was her work before this and plan to uh plan to return to work and do both, work with the kids and do the dental hygienist. Clean up some teeth.

In the fall because the kid's young. So she's trying to kind of get it together. It's hard when you first have a baby. You want a few months buffer zone there. Holy, that's the hardest. That's difficult. So February 24th 1992 they have the baby here um who is six eight months old something like that and uh you know they're going about their business it's morning time charlie wakes up at 5 30 a.m uh eats some breakfast says he changed the baby's diaper he's grabbed some cereal ate

some breakfast um said he went in kissed linda goodbye and um she told him that uh she was going to stay home all day today she wasn't going out she said because normally she's a big runner she goes out running for miles and miles, but she's huge into physical fitness, and she's doing it extra because she's trying to lose weight after her pregnancy too. Sure, yeah. Because, you know, also she's like almost 40. Oh, boy. Yeah, the later you have kids, the harder it is to get rid of that

just because the harder it is to lose weight the older you are. That shit just sticks around, man. The way it is. But she's been running every day and running a lot,'s she had shin splints the last couple days pretty bad so she's she was going to stay home today she said and rest her legs they're sore she didn't want to like you know didn't want to give a chance it just going to take a rest day here so charlie said last thing i did before i left the house was i gave linda a kiss and i said see you tonight yep so he said then then he left. He went to work

and was doing construction. And he called his wife three times that morning, he said, and got no answer every time and left messages on the answering machine. Where are you? I'll call you back a little while. I got a break. Taking a break. Where are you? He said, I was perplexed. Something had changed from the time I was talking to Linda that morning. She said she just wanted to be with Lisa and have the day at home. So now he's thinking, I guess maybe she got up and realized her legs felt pretty good. Maybe she's going out for a run, you know, whatever. I don't know. So, uh, but she never, he never hears back from her and she, she never answers his calls over the course of the day. So he just does his job, keeps working. Yeah. He gets off work about a little after 4 p.m., a little before 4.

He's home by 4.15. Wow. Yeah. That's quick. That's quick. I mean, he left the house at, I want to say, 6.30 in the morning. So he's been good. It's a long day. Yeah. You're off at 4 and you're home at 4.15.

That's awesome. Yeah, I think he was 20 minutes away, something like that. So it was in Maplewood, which I know is a suburb of Minneapolis, too. So it couldn't have been too far. So he returns home, long day of carpentry, which is hard work. Fuck yeah, it is. So he gets there and he can't find Linda anywhere. Doesn't see her.

So he does hear Lisa crying, the baby. The baby's there. So he looks in a, Lisa's in a playpen and wearing the same pajamas she had on that morning and clearly has a dirty diaper, you know, like pee down the legs and soak through. A kid can't pee in a diaper all day long. It's eventually won't hold it anymore. They get so big. Yeah, and it won't hold it anymore. It'll give, I'm sure.

So it's like when you put a kid in a pool, you know, just it'll eventually over-soak. It's crazy the stuff that's in those gets gelatinous. It gets so big. So huge, yeah. You're like, oh, God. It's crazy. Oh, look at this kid. Pick a kid up huge, yeah. You're like, oh, God. Oh, look at this kid. Pick a kid up in the morning, and you're like, oh, Jesus.

So when they first wake up, Jesus, you had some peeing going on last night. Look at that thing on you, Beyonce. My goodness. Puffy. So he says, well, that's weird. And Joey, who had went to school that day and returned home from school about an hour earlier, was just sitting at the dining room table. Waiting. Just sitting there. that day and returned home from school about an hour earlier was just sitting at the dining room table waiting, just sitting there.

Charlie asked Joey where his mother was and he said he didn't know. Yeah. I don't know. Been here about an hour. This kid's crying. I'm just sitting here. So that's what's going on. So Charlie's like, what the fuck is happening right now?

This is not like Linda, any of this. So he calls her name. He gets no answer. He looks into the bedroom and sees that there's no sheets on the mattress. The sheets have been stripped off the mattress. It's like someone's doing laundry. That's what you do.

So he sees that, but that's all he sees. He goes, okay, maybe she's doing laundry. So he goes in, picks Lisa up because she's crying, the baby, and starts looking around the house for her, calling her Linda, Linda. He goes downstairs into the basement because he figures she's probably washing sheets. That's why there's no sheets on the bed. She's not down there, though, and the washer's not going. So he's like, all right. Are the sheets down there?

No. There's no sheets in the washer either. So he's like. Is there a new Casper mattress on the front step? There's like eight boxes of different mattresses. There's like a Casper and a fucking Lisa and whatever. I don't remember the brands. We had a lot of them.

Purple? I don't know. You're asking me? We got a bunch of them. Whole lot of mattresses. Anybody needs a mattress? No, we finally got rid of them now. So no sheets to be found so he

then takes the baby and he goes back upstairs looks around asked joey you sure you didn't see your mom he's like i haven't seen her since i've been home you know no i don't know where she is so he goes back into the bedroom at that point and looks a little closer he just looked into the bedroom saw the sheets um he takes lisa back to the playpen and He just looked into the bedroom, saw the sheets. He takes Lisa back to the playpen. And then he walks into the bedroom. And he sees Linda on the floor on the other side of the bed. She's on the floor. She has no clothes on.

Oh, no. She has a comforter over her. Oh. But the comforter is, you couldn't take the comforter off of her because it is pinned to her chest by a large knife protruding oh boy through the night through the through the comfort through the blanket yes like you pin a note to a door that's yeah but it's the comforter is jesus knife is a it's a 10 inch knife that's to the hilt with the chest. Through the, wow. Horrible. So Charlie said, quote, she was cold.

He said, I had the instinct to pull the knife out. Oh, don't do that. Don't do that, Charlie. Don't touch the goddamn thing, man. You get the fuck out of there. He said, I did touch the knife. Yeah. That's his story.

And I said, no, let it go. And I walked out of the knife. Yeah. That's his story. And I said, no, let it go. And I walked out of the room. That's the last I saw of it, unquote. That's what he said. He said she was dead. She had been dead for some time. So that's his story. He walked in and they're like, oh, fingerprints are yours on the knife.

And he's like, well, I touched it. Yeah. That was my instinct to grab it. Yeah. So he notifies the police who arrive at the scene pretty quick. yours on the knife and he's like well i touched it yeah that was my instinct to grab it yeah so he notifies the police who arrive at the scene pretty quick they're like oh this is a barn burner in a small town you know you betcha see that very often so they get there and they find basically not a lot of physical evidence all around which is weird because there's it's obviously there's

been a struggle yeah there should be a lot contained inside a blanket. Yeah, something. There's got to be blood. There's got to be hair. There's got to be something out of this whole thing. So they don't find a lot, though. They are looking for the sheets, and they cannot find the sheets and will never find the sheets ever.

They are gone. Sheets are gone, fucking completely gone. And so are Linda's clothes she was wearing as they are gone sheets are gone fucking completely gone and so are linda's linda's clothes she was wearing as well are gone and never to be recovered as well okay that's interesting no fingerprints discovered in the home or of sufficient value to yield an identification even charlie's knife when he grabbed the knife not good enough there's no yeah they don't have an identification even on that they only he said i touched the knife not good enough there's no yeah they don't have an identification even on that they only he said i touched the knife to let them know yeah because he probably thought my fingerprints will be on it now so he had to tell them i touched the fucking knife what did

they do that for or he's lying one of the two is what the police think i mean because husband comes home finds all this i don't know what happened knife in her chest oh i touched it though i didn't mean to of course of course that sounds suspicious right away here so that's something month old is never gonna talk no and joey was at school joey was at school and joey is also not gonna talk limited reliability on this kind of issue so not not uh testifiable yeah yeah you're not gonna put a nine-year-old with problems and health issues like that on the stand and and that's not going to happen. So they get canine units to look around the area trying to find any other evidence. They're trying to find the sheets, the clothes, another weapon, anything really, a shoe, whatever you can find.

So they ask Charlie what the fuck happened here because now they're really talking to Charlie. Hey, Charlie, you're so far the only adult in the house is you we don't think Joey did it so he says that he returned at 4.15 from work found her down on the floor I don't know that's his whole story don't know almost pulled the knife out

there's no signs of forced entry into the house and there's no burglarizing that happened nothing's been taken nothing's the only thing taken is her life her clothes the sheets and her life that's what's been taken fascinating and they left behind they traded that for a knife apparently they oftentimes they'll do that yeah that's an even trade-off you trade off bullets sometimes for it it's how it works sometimes you leave those behind yeah yeah so

this is not great they have no and like i said they have a baby yeah and a and a child with with developmental issues and mental handicaps so i don't know how you what are you gonna do what do you do at this point so um family members say they don't know if Joey saw his mother's body before Charlie got home either. They're not sure. He said no, but then later on when they asked him, they said he did see it. And then later on after that, he said he didn't see it. So Joey is unreliable at best when it comes to that. Yeah, right.

He's just, you're going to not get accurate information. Who knows? Yeah, they said he's flipping back're gonna get not get accurate information who knows yeah yeah they said he's flipping back and forth is what the police said so what the fuck i guess autopsy let's see what we get out of this because now they have all of this they have zero physical evidence they don't have the sheets they don't have the clothes which are things they would want for hairs and fibers and you know physical evidence forensic evidence like that nothing so it's rough so they take the autopsy they find linda's been through quite a lot in this autopsy they find i believe it she's been a beaten unmercifully right beaten um she has been raped in any way possible oh no yes any any imaginable way she has been she's been violated here yeah

um she was strangled and then and this is the fucked up part she stabbed at least 11 times in the chest with a 10 inch knife but they were very specific in the autopsy to say these were slow stab wounds slow slow entry oh my not stabbing these are pushing and enjoying what you're doing what the fuck this is a sick whoever did this is this is like ted bundy sick weird fucking crazy shit here. There will be many more. This is very disturbing, what's going on here. So they don't know what to do with that. They said that the cause of death was determined to be strangulation, and the stab wounds may be part pre- and part post-mortem. Shit.

So this person, even after death, might have just been enjoying himself so much sick sick sick that he did that and now pinning the comforter to her with a knife in the end and leaving the knife in there like that is also something to look at if you were profiling well it's also they covered her up with the covered it up. So he's showing that. And packaged. It's almost like mailing it. You know what I mean? You got to tape it up.

You got to tape up the box. It's definitely on display. It was definitely. He could have taken the knife with him. She was long dead. He didn't have to leave the knife in her chest. He left the knife in her chest to make sure to pin the comforter to her. That's the only reason to do it.

Wow. It wasn't broken off in her or anything like that so fascinating it's very fascinating here uh the knife used in the attack was a steak knife taken from the knife block on the kitchen counter didn't even bring it didn't even bring it this lazy fuck didn't even bring his own knife so what is that or who knows maybe they're there so i mean so that's the problem too is how many times do we hear people getting killed with their own knife block knives how many times hide your knife block it's just too easy of an idea the handles are sticking right up the grab wherever you put your guns put the knife block in there yeah so you need i need to chop an onion can you

can i have to open the safe, baby? I need to chop. I'll get it. I'm not telling anybody the code. Here you go. Here's your there you go. I'll need that back when you're done. So that is disturbing. Now, the only evidence they find of any value is this is a very disgusting phrase that I'm going to read verbatim from an autopsy report so I am less grossed out. Quote, a quantity of semen was recovered from the body. A quantity. That's at least a handful and it's grossing me out, right? That's a tablespoon, right? That's at least a handful.

You could throw it against the wall. It's too much. They may as well have just said a gob, right? A goob and gob and clump of jizz. A dollop? I mean, a bit? Yeah. And you should have called it jizz, because just to make it as gross.

A quantity? A quantity is the grossest way they could put it, right? Yeah, yeah. Literally. They could have said... A measurement? They could have said a balls full of jizz. Just as much as a sack load.

A sack load. Not as gross as quantity of semen recovered from the body. Yeah. And it was determined that she'd been killed in the course of the rape as well. So. This is disgusting. This is just just you can't come to a worse end than this yeah no this is at some point though it with that description at some point that person was having sex with the corpse yeah yeah that's fucked up man yeah during it so that's that's actually a thing that some people are into of course yeah they like that because

there's certain contractions and things of that nature that take place so that's what they like it's fucking gross process of dying they can feel it i've read i have read read shit about wow psychologists that talk to murderers oh my god that's so gross that's what they say the attraction to that is oh yeah i've actually heard a man in an interview just saying it's i can't even get into it it's the process of it happening are you saying why how why it's so great this nope nope disgusting fucking disgusting how oh yeah as an interviewer how do you not throw up on that man's lap? Well, you're a medical professional, I think, is the thing, is why. And detectives have had these.

It's gross, man. It's really fucking gross. This is a very disturbed person who would come into someone's house. I was going to say break in, but there's no forced entry. So we don't know how this person got in. And that's an issue that we're talking about. To come into this person's house with a baby present, mind you, there's a baby

in the house. When you hear a baby, doesn't that make you like, I don't know, doesn't it make your dick less hard right there? Unless it's your own, and at that point you're like, come on, just stay hard for a few seconds. Just shut the fuck up for 30 seconds, baby. Shut the fuck up. but if it's someone yeah

with a baby and go in and brutal i beat this poor woman in her own fucking room do what we said he did and then leave quantities of semen and fucking stab her all these times slowly putting the knife in the fucking because you're into that shit and you're probably seeing the pain you're causing and enjoying it also which which is, this is a very disturbed person. Yeah, he's got, they better catch him 10 minutes ago. And then says, oh, let me grab the clothes and the sheets and get the fuck out of here. Which, that's, I mean, obviously that's something with like reliving, right? Or like trophies?

Well, it's either trophies. Because it's certainly not to control the situation because you just left everything about you there already. But this is 1990. Or 1991, mind you. Unaware. So they don't know the extent of DNA. DNA was brand new at that point. Yeah.

In the mid-'80s, they started using it. DNA was brand new at that point. In the mid-'80s, they started using it. But your average schmuck, unless they read a lot about crime news, didn't know jack dick about DNA. But they know about fingerprints. They know about hair. They know about things like that. So they take the clothes.

They take that shit. And maybe they bled on something if they were stabbing like that. Who knows? So they take all of that. What are the odds this is the first time this person's done this? Zero, right? This is very. You can't.

You can't. No. That can't be number one. To then, like I said, to take the evidence and everything, that just shows that this person, I feel like, has done this before and left something behind that they didn't want to leave behind. And then they realize now to get it. Yeah. behind that they didn't want to leave behind and then they realize now to get it yeah even if it if it is number one this he's really incredibly dangerous person because this is like right on par with that btk shit and his first one it's just as gross it's a fantasy that he's worked up for a long time it's grosser yes grosser and the knife going in slowly like that right that's

a fantasy you've worked up for a long time you didn't just think of that on the fly no this is what you've been wanting to do yep or you've done it before and said it wasn't as fun to do it fast maybe be fun to do it slow and really be gross about it and i don't know it's fucking horrible though this is tying a bag around a child's head and then setting a chair nearby to watch they don't think that they don't think he did that now actually but it would have been horrible yeah the idea of that is fucked up fucking horrifying and not saying he wouldn't do that no he would have done that and loved it because the things he did were absolutely yeah exactly they just said no that kid just died in there i don't know yeah fuck all right so they say that they uh that they think she was killed somewhere between 8 and 10 a.m.

They said maybe there, 7.30 and 9.30 might be a more accurate window, they said. So, yeah, this is, there was our Sherbourne County Road 15 is where the house is, by the way. About four miles north of U.S. Highway 10. And, yeah, this is fucking, wow. They said now right away they think that she may have known the killer because there's no forced entry. Yeah. She either may have known him or this is also a suburban kind of rural,

friendly Minnesota people. Yeah. Come yeah come on somebody knocking on the door my tire's flat can i use your phone yeah it's 1990 that sort of thing and that's tell me about jehovah's witness no intention of signing up or joining or whatever but come on in and come on in yeah i got lemonade well my great-grandmother was murdered there was no forced entry because the woman who later admitted to it and pled guilty, she said she had a problem and could I please come in and use your phone. That's how she got in. So there's no forced entry there either.

That doesn't mean that she was like a friend or invited in. Right. You're telling me your grandma didn't do enormous amounts of meth with that woman? I don't believe it. They sat down. Well, that was the first. Then what happened is she gave her some money and she was supposed to get more meth bring her bring her the meth back now my great-grandmother she's gonna fuck you over if you give her the meth money up front obviously she had smoked it all up already by the time they got back

by the time she got back and this woman was not having it that's what happened the piper gotta pay the piper 84 Gotta pay the piper. 84-year-olds will take your meth money and smoke it all up. You know how that goes. Now we're at the bottom of this story. And no one better get mad at me for making fun and talking and making jokes about my own relative's murder.

You can go fuck yourself. Shut up about that. I can do that all i want that shows that's why we do this that helps us it's dark and that's what we do that's what we need to survive hearing about quantities of semen i can't apologize that's so gross imagine if this was a serious show and there was no way to blow off steam after hearing quantities of semen and we just had to keep going on with that for the whole show that's fucking disturbing yeah i don't know how bill curtis does it i really don't i don't know he takes he's got to take breaks go outside smoke a couple of cigarettes

we don't have that luxury we do this in one shot boom in and out in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

Dominic Dunn's probably just pausing. I gotta say what what happened here what why is there any way that's the that's the script is quantities of semen you want me to say that into me to be this is a string of coincidences that would even lead to her being alone with the child that morning because normally she goes running normally this happens normally that happens and different things had to happen so they think that whoever did this must have known the family's routine very well and had an eye on them or something

someone very close to them here uh they said that it's it's a plausible theory that even a killer could have been it could have either been someone very close to them or someone that was hiding in the woods nearby waiting that's the worst thought that's the worst it's also probably not true because right you what are you just gonna sit outside everybody's house in the woods and then you know exactly who's in there well you'd still have to know the family and their routines and who's around and you know what if oh he left i can go in there now and now her you know fucking middleweight boxer champion brother is home instead and he's in there and he just woke up he's like home i hear on vacation and he beats

the living shit out of you how's that gonna work or the incredibly in shape man she met at the gym that she's fucking around yeah behind her husband's back and he happens to know ty bow or something pummels you with a barbell he takes everywhere with him. He likes to do curls at red lights. You know, just gets it going. Just happens to have that tied to his belt loop. Yeah. One of those. He always keeps it with him.

Like some people have a water bottle. That's what his version is. It's a Stanley. So they say it's definitely not robbery, which also makes you think that it's got to be someone close to them because the only thing that was taken were the sheets and the clothes. Even jewelry that was right there and on her body was left behind. Yeah, it's rare that it's just the murder. And that's also someone who goes, can't get caught with that. Yeah.

So that's why I mean I don't feel like this is a person's first. I feel like this is they've figured out how to do this. is a person's first i feel like this is they've figured out how to do this you know yeah um the the medical examiner also said that semen inside of her was deposited close to the time of her death because her body contained extremely high levels of an enzyme found in a male's ejaculation. See, this is why we need jokes. That doesn't dissipate. He said that enzyme degrades over time, but the degradation ceases once the recipient is dead. So they can kind of tell a little bit there.

Yeah, I guess that's what it would be. It bakes it out. So right away, they have nowhere to go on. They don't know what to do. Charlie immediately moves out of the house. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be there. I wouldn't want to be there, too. He said, quote, it's just too tough to go through that bedroom.

Yeah. He said, it's too hard to take. And he said, we're sad and we're sorry and we miss her. We get angry when we think about somebody coming in and doing it i said or i go through a thousand different scenarios during every day of what happened now her sister who who is at this time she started out sandy halverson now she's going to be sandy swanson and we'll watch her names change repeatedly over the course of the story she'll go back to how she'll like get married, get divorced,

get remarried like three, four times over the course of the show. It's fucking wild. Yeah. Incredible. She's got all sorts of names, Sandy, but I mean,

that just happens. This is over a long period of time. So it's not, it's not odd or anything. It's not every year. It's just, it's just fun to see her evolution. It's just funny. Every time we check in with her,

I'm like, Oh, that's her sister, Sandy. Okay. Because she's got a different last name now. She's Sandy Swanson at this point. And she said, we don't know anything and we want everything done yesterday. My brothers can't even talk. And my dad, he's 80. I don't know

if he's going to make it through. He told me an 80 year old man does not bury a 39 year old daughter. My dad can't stop crying. Yeah. So an 80-old man in 1990, that's a tough man. He went through the Depression, possibly World War II. He was born in 1911, for God's sake. You broke him down, man. That's horrible. That's just sad. Nothing's sadder than watching old people cry.

Yeah. Isn't that sad? I fucking hate it, man. It's the saddest thing in the world because you're like, you know there's nothing you can tell them to make them feel better no they might just be crying about the fact that they're 85 that sucks you know how are you gonna make them feel better about that they just might be crying because it's tuesday you don't know i'm gonna die soon no you're not no shit that's a lie. I can't tell you no. Fuck, yeah. Every fear you have is legitimate.

How's that? Want a beer? You're so old that if something was wrong with you, you're beyond the doctors even really doing that much to solve it. So that's how old you are. Have a beer. Trust me. Trust me. Get it.

You're beyond the point of a doctor saying, oh, this is sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just go, well. It's a good run. Try to keep them comfortable. Like an old dog you don't want to put to sleep. Yeah, every time you see a doctor, it's just, I don't know, he's had a pretty good run. Pretty good run.

You're going to have to take him out on a wagon to piss, but other than that. Yeah, every time the doctor says we should all be so lucky, I don't know what that means. Yeah, that's not good oh man so uh they after a week of of investigation they say the cops that have no they have dozens of phone calls and tons of tips but they have few real clues and no suspects they got they're just sitting there holding a quantity of jizz and a fucking comforter. That's all they have to go on a mound. Yeah. And a mound and a couple measurement.

How about a say? How about give us how much it is? Yeah. That I need to know. Point three one ounces of semen. OK. How many milliliters? That's fine.

I can deal with that more than a quantity because that could be any amount. Oh, God, that could be so much. Yeah, I'm picturing it coming out of a can like Ready Whip, just everywhere. It could be like a soft serve cone full. A Cool Whip tub full of it. That's a quantity. That's a quantity. It's like 13 ounces, but it's a lot.

I'm going to go have a quantity of Cool Whip when we're done with the show. I'm going to say that from now on. I don't know that i'm eating anything white after this show i'm gonna we're eating cool whip jimmy don't worry about it cool whip and salsa i'm feeding you cool whip that's what we're having just don't shake it at me oh no no i'm gonna say open up and i'm gonna spray it from above that's what i'm gonna do hopefully make it get down on your knees to receive it like communion communion so So, who do they have suspects?

No. I'd love to know. They have some people. First of all, their initial investigation here is mainly focused on Charles, number one. Yeah, yeah. Charlie, A, touched the knife. B, he's a husband. He's the husband.

He knows she's going to be alone that day. He knows the routine. He wouldn't have to break into the fucking house. Right. But the problem is why would you take sheets and clothes if you're the husband? And where the fuck are they? And where the fuck are they? And why would you get rid of them?

No matter what, your cares and everything are all over the house. You live there. So what are you going to – I don't want anyone to know I was in my bedroom. Like that doesn't make any sense. It wouldn't be questionable for those items to be in the home. Yeah of yours could be there I mean there's a lot so it doesn't make sense why the husband would do that other than to throw off the scent maybe that's all they could think and they're also looking at Andrew the son as well oh where the fuck is he because he's he lives a half hour away maybe he did something so they interview residents of the neighborhood to

determine if anybody observed anything unusual. Now, this is where nosy small town neighbors come in handy. You know, I saw a car. And they, the police are now saying somewhere between 730 and 1130 a.m. possibly because of information provided by a woman who told investigators she saw a white man with shaggy hair and a beard leave the Jensen property at about 11 30 that morning okay that's not that seems interesting seems like somebody you'd want to talk to um they described the man as a short, unkempt man about 40 years old who drove a 1970s model copper-colored pickup truck with not a lot of chrome on it, no real chrome trim, and a flat bumper that was painted silver. So a very specific vehicle description. Seems like.

Yeah, that's certainly a truck. Anybody sees that truck, it'd be easy to pick out of a lineup. And the man, too, shaggy hair, scraggly beard, skinny 40, short, unkempt. Boy, she got a solid look at this guy and his truck. That's just staring out the blinds is what that is. No, Chrome, she knew so much about it. She's like, where's the trim on it? Now, the 74 model, that came with trim around the mirrors, right? Okay. Yeah, that sounds like a, that came with trim around the mirrors right okay yeah that sounds

like a that's probably a chevy that no the chevy's got the badges it's probably that ford he customized it rear nah rear lights look like a dodge bumper rear lights look like a dodge am i crazy you can you see in this chevy's got that rounded on the edges. It's not that. So, yeah, they said that, you know, there's that. So they definitely love to talk to that guy because he was a stranger at the crime scene during the window of murder. So the sheriff, the Sherbourne County Sheriff Dick Witchen. It's old Dick Witchen. Is that right? Gonna witch you with my dick.

Dick Witchen. It's going out. Dick, to witch you with my dick. Dick Witchen. Dick Witchen. It's going out. Dick, I think that's how you'd say it. W, it might be Witson. W-I-S, W-I-T-S-C-H-E-N. Witchen. That is Witchen. It's Witchen, right?

I tried to find every other way to say it. That's as Witchen as it gets, man. That's Bitchin' and Witchen right there. So Sheriff Dick Witchen. Like Ditch Witch? Like he is a Dick Witchin'. He'll put a spell on you with his dick, is what that sounds like. You Dick Witchin' some bitch.

That's someone who like got your wife to. They have witchin' sticks that you can find shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Divining rods? That's what he's doing with his dick. He can find out the flow. Hold on. Bring in Dick Witchin'. He's so good at it, they made him sheriff. His he's doing with his dick. He can find out the flow. Hold on. Bring in Dick Witchen.

He's so good at it, they made him sheriff. His dick's a divine in Rod. He finds water and murderers. That's what he finds. So they said that investigators have received dozens of calls and people who say they know someone who looks like the scraggly guy. But the sheriff said, quote, not too many. Check out. They get a tip a week into this.

There's a man saying he's a federal agent, told Minneapolis police he knew of the suspect's whereabouts on a federal level. So somebody that was on the federal radar. And he knows this tip turns out to be a hoax. And that man's arrested for this, for filing a false report. He posed as a federal agent. You can't do that. He said, hey, I got it under control. Federal agent, I know where he is. We'll take care of it.

Lock that motherfucker up for so long. He absolutely got locked up. So Dick Witchin said, so far we're still hashing everything out. We're just doing the old gumshoe and the old, by the way, not old, the old gumshoe and trying to find out where and what and how and what for. He really said what for?

What for. He said we're trying to find out where and what and how and what for instead of a motive. He calls it the what for. Hey, do we know the motive on this case? What's that now? The motive. Oh, you mean the what for? Yeah we know the motive on this case what's that now the motive oh you mean the what for yeah i don't know yet he's the sheriff of the county mind you whole county oh what for whole county when anything happens he's the guy in charge of everyone this man okay find the what oh dick witching uh figuring out the what

for the what for oh boy so the witness gave us got a sketch of this person yeah no one in the area recognized the sketch of the mysterious scraggly man unkempt sure but several people did report seeing the pickup truck around town that morning and then not after that. But no one knew who it belonged to. Other people have seen the copper truck. That truck around, yeah, because it stands out, like we said. So people are like, I remember seeing that truck when they read the description of that. But they don't recognize the guy because they didn't really see him.

They just saw the truck. Yeah. So they're saying maybe this is a guy who drove through and then he's gone now. Because it's only that day people remembered seeing him so the detectives bring the sketch all around the area to see if it's maybe somebody from an outlying place it's widely publicized but no one can ever identify the guy you know no one ever identifies him so now they start thinking that detectives believe that the killer is from outside the community. Now they're thinking this isn't somebody, this isn't a neighbor or the drifter in the weird truck that lives on the edge of town or her husband or her son. This has to be someone from outside the community because how could this beautiful, lovely little community make a murderer?

That doesn't happen out here. Right. This is a man from fucking green bay and that is that's goddamn minneapolis jesus the streets there are not safe for human inhabitation fucking saint paul i'm telling you that's that's how they think though and we've seen this a lot where they think it's can't be someone from inside it's got to be somebody from the city yeah That's almost a joke. It's almost a cliche in like a murder type movie or a multi-part thing.

It's like, well, that's the cliche is it can't be somebody from here. And so they start looking at Linda's life to see who the fuck she might have known and where and how this could happen. First of all, there's Charlie. Let's get through Charlie here. Police say Charlie left home about 6.20 for work a.m. The work was in Maplewood. Joey left for school about an hour later. So we know she was alive during that point.

That's why 7.30 is kind of the cutoff. Her sister says about, as I said, how was their marriage? They were divorced and then remarried. So obviously they had problems before, had these problems pop back up again. Right. Is it an ongoing issue? Yeah. Charlie likes to do his drinking, we hear.

So maybe Charlie got back into drinking and maybe she didn't like it and they have a daughter and there's a lot of pressure. What time of year is it? Is this ice fishing time? This is, no, no. This is, when did I say this was? April. Yeah, it's April. No, no, no, no. This is. That's when they got married shit god damn it now i'll find it he's in school so it's got to be

during the fall school time september was it uh april 4th no that's when they got me february 24th it's freezing fucking ice fishing time ice fishing time so he's tying him on that's who knows what he's doing out there he's out sitting in his little shack with fucking Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon. You never know. The lake keeping him cold. The Green Hornet. He bet. So that's how they say.

So they asked the sister, because if anyone knows any marital problems, it's going to be Linda's sister. That's who they talked to. So Sandy, the sister, said, quote, they were so so happy he worshipped the ground she walked on linda could do no wrong by him wow she said the saturday before the murder happened i was out at the house and we were sitting around talking about old boyfriends and first loves and she said to me charlie's the only guy i ever loved is that, yeah, she's painting an idyllic picture here of this childhood love. Yeah. So she says, they asked, well, what do you think?

And the sister said she believes that the killer knew her sister was home with her infant daughter and that all that this was was to intend harm. She said this, quote, it's a hate killing. It's not random. Somebody had some grudge against somebody. I don't believe there are many random murders. There's some motive for it, like revenge. So she's like, this is, and the way it happened, this is too gnarly to be random. But hate, like, okay.

It's got to be revenge. So now our theories are drifter, revenge. Hate crime. Hate crime. Hate killing. Yeah. But other family members say they don't know. And even Hershey says, I can't think of anybody to have a motive or a what for in local parlance.

Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse Sheriff Dick there. Sheriff Witchin. Sheriff Dick Wichen. They say that Linda was not expecting any visitors that day and they said that, they asked Sandy, what do you

think? Anybody you would think? And she said one suspect could be her ex-husband who she got divorced from like a year ago. I'd look at him. But Dick Wichen said that federal authorities interviewed him in California, hopefully real ones this time,

not some guy faking it of being a federal authority, interviewed the ex in California where he lives, and they dismissed him as a suspect for right this minute. Okay. Now, one theory is that maybe the killer stopped by the house to inquire about a truck that Charlie parked at the end of his driveway to try to sell. So they have a car for sale.

So that's a stranger magnet that you have there. Sure does. Yeah. That's fishing. Yeah. And a reason for people to stop. So now you've got the description of that unkempt guy. Now you've got a truck there.

Maybe he just stopped to write down the phone number of the truck. Yeah. Maybe he's looking at the truck. Or maybe he came all the way up to the door and got no answer because somebody was dead. That's the other thing.

So he just walked away. So Charlie Jensen, they said, what do you think? And he said, I don't know, quote, maybe somebody just got out

of jail or something. Maybe they saw that thing, came up here to the house and saw the house and saw the opportunity and struck fuck i hate the maybes but that's a very suspicious thing this i'm like sure yeah just maybe i don't know somebody out of jail so yeah the mystery man like we said bearded white male small build 40 years old unkempt pickup truck the person who saw that guy was a postal carrier who delivered mail

in this area. They had the whole rural route out here. It's a big route. She said she saw it. Her name's Gloria Thompson. She gave the description to the police and she said that she was about 10 feet away from him as she drove

past the home. So she got a real good look at him. He was right there. That's the description that they got the sketch from. Then after a while, Gloria Thompson looked at her own description and sketch and said, that's not what I remember now. Now I remember I'm looking differently. So they pulled the sketch out of the media and they said, never mind. Fuck the sketch. Forget the sketch. That obviously means nothing. So they pulled the sketch out of the media and they said, never mind. Fuck the sketch. Forget the sketch.

That obviously means nothing. So let's look at her ex here. This is Robert Beard. He is the father of Joey. That is her second husband, Robert Beard. So they will say that Beard, here's his factors of how he could be a suspect. He resembled the sketch of the man that the postal carrier claimed to have seen in the driveway that morning. Uh-oh.

Yes. Beard had called the Jensen home about two weeks before the murder and was upset about his visitation schedule with his son. Okay. These are things. Okay. These are things. Charlie Jensen said the man, this guy, Robert Beard, could be violent and was the only person he could think of who could or would hurt Linda. Huh.

Is Robert. Beard's former girlfriend, this man's former girlfriend, said that he repeatedly told her that he had killed Linda Jensen. What? And threatened her by saying if she ever, quote, messed up on him, he'd do the same to me. That's certainly a way to control. That's, yeah, I killed her and I'll kill you too is something. That's. Better not mess up on me. Don't mess up on me.

That's the quote she used too. So that must be exactly what he said. That's the quote she used, too. So that must be exactly what he said. And apparently, he had told his ex-girlfriend that he stabbed Linda in the abdomen, told her what the wound looked like. He didn't say, I killed her. He goes, I stabbed her in the abdomen. Here's what it looked like. A little triangle.

And also that Linda had been raped and that there was semen left in her body and it wasn't his and that there was a baby in the room at the time of the murder that's a lot of a lot of details but also i got questions there's a whole lot going on whose did he leave behind did he do that part did he bring a friend just bring a pocket full of jizz yeah just a spoonful is Mary Poppins singing about it now. Rage against the machine song with a pocket full of jizz. With a pocket full of jizz. Just a spoonful of semen makes the medicine go down. You know the song, Jim.

Pocket full of jizz. so full of jizz pocket full of jizz oh that's gross so he that's what she said that he told her that basically here's all the details of the crime that the police haven't released these are all facts uh they didn't release that she had been raped for a long time. Really? That was something they held back. They kept saying every article it would say police will not say whether she was sexually assaulted or not. Wow, does he say a lot of things?

Yeah, he said a lot, according to her. So now there's another suspect that they want to look at is a guy named Richard Christie, another dick. Really? Richard Christie. He's a man that Linda had met at the gym where she works out. Okay. Okay. He also was identified as resembling the postal carrier sketch.

He was considered an early suspect by police. An acquaintance told police that a third person, so this is like double hearsay, but a third person told him in a series of conversations many incriminating things that this man had done. Alright? And said. The acquaintance said that

he had been, that this man had been at a home on what he believed, when he believed to be the day of Linda Jensen's murder, and the second suspect, because I guess there's somebody else here, this guy had arrived with blood on his hands and jacket. And that the suspect and another man later left with towels and garbage bags with the apparent goal of cleaning up a crime scene. So they're saying two dudes went over and they were bloody and disposing of things and

taking cleaning products back to a crime scene now another woman stated that this this gym guy had visited her home and told her that he had been at the jensen house the morning of the murder waiting in a truck while an accomplice went in to rob the house. Who's that now? That's the guy she goes to the gym with. Yeah. So he said that I was outside while this guy went in to rob the fucking house. Why is he saying all this?

But then there was no robbery. So that's the problem. This guy go in and go, I know I'm going to just rape and kill him. I'm just here for the worst. They also talked to Kent Richard Jones. Another Richard. This guy go in and go, I know I'm going to just rape and kill him. I'm just here for I'm just here for the worst. They also talk to Kent Richard Jones. Is this another Richard? Every this full of dicks this episode.

So much. I wish we could call it Dick and Jizz. The Dick and Jizz murder, because that's all it is. Kent Richard Jones is 27. He lives about a half mile away within the that postal carriers postal route. She delivers to the jensen's and to him um he was briefly interviewed at his residence but he never mentioned that he knew linda or or her family and he also said that he hadn't seen any suspicious activity on the day of the murder because they were just asking every neighbor did you see any trucks did you see this you see that

and he was like didn't see shit um he's a cub scout leader by the way this guy attaboy um yeah um so he's interviewed in 1992 right when or right after this is going on when they're really canvassing and the other thing is his wife said well we were here together all day he was with me that day so okay we were all home at the same time so there you go he also says he didn't know Linda Jensen. He does say that she came to his house one time to discuss a scouting organization for her sons a few years ago. Because he's in the Cub Scout shit. So there's some stuff with that. He said he spent the whole day, February 24, 1992, at home with his wife.

He was unemployed at the time and receiving disability payments from a back injury. His wife didn't have a steady job either. She did, like, odd jobs and was taking college courses at the time. So he made a telephone call from his home at 10.16 a.m. that day to the choir master of the Land of Lakes Boys Choir. Uh-huh. Land of Lakes. Land of Lakes. So they're just covered in butter, these kids.

Yeah. Put them with the spud run, people, and you got something good. Salted. Salted up. So, yeah, is there a salt fucking – is there a salt group too that gets together? So he said that Jones said he was calling to ask about upcoming fundraisers to an organization to which his son belonged. Charlie Jensen said he didn't really know Jones. So Charlie said he met Jones once at a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby competition in the spring of 1991. Pinewood Derby competition in the spring of 1991

and then another time when Jones came to the house to drop off some papers for Joey for Cub Scouts. So he's their Cub Scout guy. That's all he is, but he lives nearby so they were talking to him. Now Beard, the one husband,

the first husband, when he was interviewed, he lied repeatedly about calling, he lied repeatedly about calling. He lied about repeatedly calling Linda in the days before her murder. He said he didn't call her. And they're like, well, we know you called her. We have fucking phone records, stupid. And you've got a son with her, so there's perfect reason to call her.

Well, because everybody said he was mad. And he's like, I wasn't mad. I didn't even talk to her. admit to being okay yeah no he also denied threatening her at at all and he said that i don't even have a vehicle so i couldn't have murdered her i don't have a car okay well so i've never stopped some people i was gonna say a lot of people don't have a car you could steal a car you could borrow a You could – tons of ways to get transportation. Buses exist, yeah. All over the place.

It's rural, so you'd need a car. But still, she's not on a bus route or anything. But still, it's ridiculous. Now, the other husband, the California husband, Silman, they flew out. Detectives fly out to interview him. But he is quickly cleared due to having an alibi. but he is quickly cleared due to having an alibi. He was literally in front of a class teaching while the murder was taking place.

Dozens of witnesses. Or that day. So he taught that day. He couldn't have got from Minnesota to California between 5 a.m. California time and 9 o'clock when he was teaching. It's just not possible. Do you own a plane? Yeah. Do you own a jet and your own private airstrip that lands in your house and at her house?

Yeah. That's so they said, well, still, though, if he didn't do it himself, he might have hired someone to do it. OK, so they subpoena his bank records. Nothing in his bank records that show any evidence of a murder for hire. No weird transactions. Nothing. Nothing in his bank records that show any evidence of a murder for hire, no weird transactions, nothing. Both ex-husbands were asked to submit a DNA sample, and they did.

Okay. Now, the quantity of semen found at the crime scene here yielded a DNA profile. Oh, that's great. That's the part about having a quantity is you can get a lot. Test many times. By having a quantity, as you can get a lot. Test many times. This was compared against samples from approximately 80 suspects that they have rounded up and a national DNA database, which at the time was in its infancy, obviously. Eleven people.

There's 12 guys. One of them is Ted Bundy, who they killed three years ago. It's not going great. No match found in any of these, by the way. Wow. Investigators review over 1,000 other possible leads, but they have no DNA match on any of these people. Because right away, the thing they ask people is, if you don't have an alibi, give us some DNA. We can clear you like that or not.

And everybody that they've gotten a sample from, it's cleared them of it. Wow. Yeah. Everybody that they've gotten a sample from, it's cleared them of it. Wow. Yeah. They said the DNA sampling has allowed them to rule out a lot of potential suspects, narrowing the pool, which is good. Family members, who are always first in unsolved homicides, have been able to clear themselves.

Charlie is cleared. Okay. Not his semen there. Wow. Andrew cleared. All cleared. So they're clear. No, it wasn't the husband um which is you charlie was suspicious to me here you know what i mean yeah but wasn't him also they said he never had left work for in for an hour or anything like that that never happened over the course of the

day he ate lunch at the site just it's not possible um so they said more than a dozen men submitted blood samples is what Sheriff Wichen said. And while submitting a sample is not required by law, a lot of them said they'd rather have, they'd rather just do that and get it over with. Sure. Plus then they stop interviewing your friends and family and go into your job and ask about you.

That part's got to suck. Yeah. They go, we can do this whole investigation on you or you can just fucking give us a sample of your dna and we can get to get it over with in two days so they have nothing and the case goes cold what nothing they all they have is a quantity of semen that's it a quantity of semen and a dead mother and a dead mother of three. Oh, my God. And a crying baby with a soiled diaper. This is fucking horrible.

So a year goes by. A year and some change. We get to 93. That's the hardest year that Charlie's ever done. Yeah. Can you imagine that shit? Oh, my God. And people are, even though he's cleared himself, the whispers are still, there's always going to be whispers.

All of that shit. All the rumors. Brand new baby. Yes. A child that has issues. Yeah. This is fucked up. You're raising all of that shit. All the rumors. Brand new baby. Yeah. A child that has issues. Yeah. This is fucked up. You're raising all of this.

Joey ends up going to live with his father in California, by the way. Bob? Robert? The Silman guy. Oh, Silman. Right. He goes out there and comes and gets him back. So he ends up moving out there.

Yeah. So that's nice. I mean, nice for Joey because that's what he wanted to do and whatever. That's helpful for Joey. That's helpful for Selman. That's helpful for Charlie. That's helpful for a lot of people. Get Joey out of the environment of his mother's ultimate brutal demise here.

Yeah. So the sister, Sandy Swanson, she says, I've got a hole in me until this person is found, which is not a good use of words considering how your sister was murdered. Why do they always do that? I think it's subconscious. They can't help it. It's a Freud thing, right? I think it's a Freudian thing because they do it every fucking time. They always say the worst possible thing.

Yeah, somebody that's strangled. I'm just gasping for air here. Don't say that. I'm gasping for air here. What? Don't say that. Oh, I'm gasping for fucking, yeah, I'm gasping for air. I'm grasping at straws. Don't do that. No. So she said, I can't accept it until the man is caught and put away.

Fair enough. I could understand that. She said, if the killer is found, she just wants to spend an hour with him. Not the way you'd imagine. No. Not the way me or you would want to spend an hour with them which would not at sherry's in parump no this would be just not beating him till you were too tired to yeah not for four grand an hour that's a your stupid opinions reference there we did sherry's brothel in Pahrump, Nevada. Pahrump, Nevada. It was part of our romantic Valentine's Day special. Go back and listen.

It's a nice getaway, I'm told. Hilarious. So she said, quote, I wouldn't touch him. To do that would be to lower myself to his level. But I would tell him how he's hurt us and the number of victims that this has caused. She just wants to yell at him. She wants to wife him for an hour. She wants to lecture him.

Yeah. She's going to just fucking wife Carmela She wants to wife him for an hour. She wants to lecture him. Yeah. She's going to just fucking wife Carmela Soprano him for an hour. Oh, shit. Yep. All that. That's more torture than pummeling. Absolutely. Please just hit me.

Jesus. Yep. Yeah. Which, I mean, I get it, too. I mean, she would have the right to do that. She said that also Sandy talking to the press said her sister put up a fight here. There was a big fight before this happened.

Linda was in shape. She worked out. She ran. She fucking went to the gym. She was strong and she was a fighter. She was spunky. So they said she definitely fought based on her injuries. She definitely fought. So Sandy said she thinks that the killer might still have scars from this struggle somewhere

or definitely probably had some scratches and some marks that were probably needed to be explained in the weeks after the crime. So that's what she's looking at here. Charlie said, they said, Charlie, who could have done this? He said, many people knew my wife casually, which doesn't sound great, but it's nice. I guess she's a nice person. Yeah. Minnesota nice. He said she ran regularly.

She exercised at Monticello Health Club. She worked at home for the developmentally disabled and took part in a church group. So that's really what she did. So she knew a lot of people, but I don't know. Charlie said the police need the community's help. You can't be afraid to come forward just because it's a murder at any time or any time might give them the lead to zero in on this person. So Charlie, like I said, never lived in that house again. He took off. First, he moved into an apartment and then he moved into the other side of a condo from Sandy, from his sister-in-law.

Oh, the duplex. I guess the duplex there, I guess, to help with the baby and all that sort of thing. And that's really what it is because he needs babysitters when he's going to work and all that kind of shit. So it's difficult. They said they approached this very differently, though. Sandy and Charlie are very different here. Sandy used to be married to a Minneapolis homicide detective. Oh.

So that's why she had all those theories. Remember, she's like, I think it's this. I think it's this. This is what happened. I think it's. She's familiar with this shit. She's familiar. They said she's an intense person who seems to have memorized the smallest details of the investigation and crime.

Wow. Like a homicide detective. They said she's always talking about the clues and the leads in her mind and discusses the investigation at least weekly with the sheriff's department. So you're going to have a weekly where the fuck any progress here from Sandy. She brings a manila envelope and lays it all out. Well, she knows what the procedures are, too. So they can't just say to her, well, we're doing this.

And she'll go, no, no, no. Where's did you do? Where's form 404 on the fucking on the lady? She knows everything. She knows how they're how it works. She knows what the reports they have to fill out everything. Yeah. Well, at the same time, she's doing all of these very practical things.

She's also in contact with psychics all the time. She does weekly check-ins with them, too. And sometimes she and her new husband check out leads from the psychics

on their own. They don't even pass them along to the police department. They just do a little investigating on their own. Well, because the police are going to laugh at her. Yeah, they're probably... But after a year, what are you going to do? I'll take swings at anything. just do a little investigating on their own well because the police are gonna laugh at her yeah

they're probably but i mean after a year what are you gonna do i'll take swings at anything that's i mean well yeah if i'm if i'm still waiting for this after a year i'm going you better look into anything i fucking tell you because yeah you getting leads i haven't heard you guys come up with shit in a long time so fuck it so they said charlie's a little more low key. He calls the investigators less often, only when a specific question arises and all that sort of thing here. Now, Joey moved to California with Linda's husband, ex-husband John Silman. Charlie thought it was the best move for the child. He has special needs. special needs and um you know but for sandy she says the disruption was just another one of the countless you know wounds inflicted by this killer yeah yeah horrible now we don't even we're not even

all together charlie said he's trying to move on with his life at this point yeah he said you have to get into the stream of life again we're trying to create that new life that new world without linda we miss her a lot but we have to keep going so yeah he said he still you know sees her family all the time for babysitting so a year later they talked to sheriff dick witch in here yeah he says he still thinks that it'll ultimately be solved really he said quote i know it's solvable he's he's now yeah i don't doubt it's solvable too because you have a bunch of dna i doubt you can solve it as the problem that's the problem i've that's what i've come up with i feel like that dna might be soiled by him pouring chicken blood on it and stirring it with a toothpick i feel like every once in a while he just takes it and

like swirls it around in the sun and looks at it and sees if he can see little faces on the sperm. Maybe that'll help him. He pours alphabet soup in it and sees if it'll spell out the name. Keeps it on his desk is what he does just in case it speaks to him at some point. So, yeah, I don't believe he's the guy who's going to find it. He has more than 36 years of experience. believe he's the guy who's going to find it he has more than 36 years of experience but i just don't i just don't i'm not getting the vibe off of him like he's a vibrant law enforcement officer who's like you know yeah he's not exactly like chris maloney and fucking svu or anything right

he's not even ice cute gun drawn no i feel like he's just sauntering into places, more like Andy Griffith from Ohio. 36 years ago? Yeah, he's like Barnaby Jones, for Christ's sake. He's got to be, yeah. So he said, what we need is that one break that'll bring it all about. Well, no shit. Thanks, you fucking genius. He said, a killer can't simply put the killing behind him so cleanly. He suspects the person will eventually speak of the crime, maybe even only cryptically, maybe in a bar to a girlfriend.

Or maybe he'll fucking do it again. Maybe he'll do it again. Hey, same jizz. One or the other. You fucking I don't like Sheriff Dick here so much. So the neighbors feel unsafe at this point. Because this is an unsolved murder an hour later. Here's from an article.

And I like the way they describe the area. Drive along County Road 15. And one learns a lot about Sherburn County. As you travel north from U.S. Highway 10, the open flat land gives way to hilly areas. Big subdivision tracks give way to homes that are nestled on 10 acre lots and well hidden from the road by large stands of trees that sounds nice right beautiful yeah um so they said this is uh many of the people who move here are in search of the quiet life free from big city worries like crime and safety. Yeah, that's one of the residents here.

Elaine said, quote, It made us all a lot more nervous. It's not it's just like not what it was now talking about after the murder. The pastor here, Monty Meyer, who's pastor of the Lord of Glory Lutheran Church, said many members of the congregation bring up the murder all the time during weekly Bible study sessions that look at family issues. And he said, people will ask, how can this happen in Big Lake or Elk River? It's spooky. Spooky?

Spooky. Spooky is how you describe a child's Halloween party. It's going to be spooky. Yeah, on the invitation it says that. Yeah, spooky with like, you know, black cats and fucking... Orange wiggle letters. Yeah, orange wiggle letters or the black cat's tail

spells out spooky. So the house has now been sold and taken over by somebody else. They said that people actually... This was a don't lock your door community and now they lock their doors. So this was it. Sure. This ruined the don't lock

the door for a whole community. Destroyed it. Yep. The neighbors formed a neighborhood watch group after the death. Wow. Not a lot to watch for, but there they are. One neighbor said that all of these events have happened in the last few years, fucking up the whole area.

She said there's been the murder, number one. She said last fall, a Circle Pines man died in a plane crash a few miles away. Two summers ago, a fugitive ransacked a nearby home before being caught by police. And about 10 years ago, a family witnessed a man die in their front yard after a car crash. She's trying to say it's like the Bermuda Triangle here. Just planes, cars, murders, jizz. Avoid the area.

A woman stabbed, rolled up like a taquito, and then toothpicked, closed, is not the same. Not rolled up, just over. Oh, it was just rolled over her. Yeah, just put over her, not rolled. Okay, all right. But even still, that is not the same as a plane crash.

No, or a car accident. A single-engine Cessna. That's his problem. Or a fucking escaped fugitive who rummaged for food and cash in somebody's house. None of these are the same thing. A man drunkenly got in a car accident hit his head and scrambled his eggs so bad he died i mean that's it's not the same and she said given those events the killing struck her as sad but not too far out of character for

the area none of those things were intentional murders none of them accidents some dipshit in a crop duster what are you kidding what me? This is what happens around here, James. Yes. How many hunting accidents? You're going to put that on it, too? I mean, Jesus. Just the kind of thing that happens around here. Par for the course around these parts. A mother of three is slaughtered.

Everywhere you go, quantities of jizz and car accidents. You know how it is. Slaughtered women. It's just a cursed area. It's the Minnesota Triangle. You've got to watch out for it. Three lakes around this area form a vicious triangle. They're all Sausalese.

Yeah, all of them. 1995, a reward has come forward now. They've put a reward out. First, it was $5,000 for information leading to the arrest, which seems honestly a little chintzy. It's insulting is what it is. It is. It increases, though, to $25,000. That money comes from the State Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. They said there is no suspects in the case at this point in 1995, so years later, who would have had the opportunity, motive,

and no alibi. They don't know. They said, quote, you never know. Somebody can come forward. They went on TV to say they upped the reward because they said, quote, friendships can end, people change, and maybe somebody has some information. Oh, I love that. Yeah.

Somebody might have told somebody they were close to. You know, relationships end, and then someone can come forward and go, he told me something terrible. So they said they wouldn't say how many suspects they were. But, you know, that's what happened. Now, in 1996, Linda and Sandy, their father dies in 1996. The 80 year old. So he died in 85. And then the next year, their mother dies, too. Golly, that's a broken heart. That's terrible. They died never getting any closure on this. Just it's horrible. So February 1999, we get to. Yeah. And the cold case unit reviews old statements and interview suspects again for any new clues or leads or anything like that

nothing still yeah then the next year 2000 a citizen just a regular old person a woman comes forward with information on the murder oh yes she says that a man who she was having an affair with here in the early 90s, a guy named Kent Richard Jones, the Cub Scout leader, became angry and defensive when she asked him about Linda Jensen's murder. He got all weird about it. I guess they had an affair in 1989, and then later on they were talking. They discussed the case in 1992, and he was being very defensive, she said. Jones had told this person that he knew Linda Jensen and that she used to jog past his house all the time and that he used to talk to her all the time.

Oh. He used to talk to her all the time. Oh. Okay. So now, after this, they go to him and they say, hey, they heard. They say this. This is not true. They say, hey, we have to talk to you again because we just got information.

We heard you were having an affair with Linda in 1991, you know, before this happened. And they know that he wasn't. They know that the witness never said he was. The witness just said she knew him. So they just wanted to see what he would say to that. So Jones later on will say the investigator was making accusations and wouldn't explain where they were coming from he doesn't have to jones said um that he wasn't having an affair with jensen um he said that he did have affairs and he took considerable care to keep the two affairs he was having away from his wife he just said quote he was young and very stupid and didn't realize how good he had it at home, but he didn't kill this lady.

So he denies knowing her still, but he says, no, no, I met her once when she came over about a scouting opportunity for her son. But now he's not saying that he talked to her all the time with the jogging, which is what he told this lady. So they said, would you please submit a DNA sample? Yeah. And he said, I don't want to do that. No. No thanks. I've heard of that stuff.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm going to keep all my quantity of jizz to myself. Thank you. Yeah. And they said, okay, well, we'll get a court order to do it then if you won't. And he said, okay, fine. So they do. They get a fucking court order.

They get his DNA. And holy shit, it's a fucking match. Yahtzee. Yahtzee. It's Kent Richard Jones here. Oh, boy. This guy who is a Cub Scout, literally her son's Cub Scout leader. Pine Box Derby guy.

Yeah. Pine Wood fucking Derby. Pine Wood, not Pine Box. Pine Box. That would be, I want to see a coffin derby. You know what? If you have an event, a local event, we will sponsor a coffin derby. I don't know what that would cost, probably a lot, but don't make them too expensive.

No, not ones that they'll be like. Oh, not all of them? Just one? Oh, the small town murder coffin. Yeah. No, we'll have to sponsor the whole event. And you have to make coffins out of pine like kids would make soapbox derbies. You don't go buy a fucking $6,000 casket and then we'll pay for it.

I'll bet we could go on Facebook Marketplace and buy a goddamn coffin. Yeah, or just some lumber. We'll buy the lumber and you guys put them together. But we want to sponsor a coffin race. A coffin, James, of of 65 dollars there we go done there's one we win we win we're gonna have 10 contestants all racing coffins we're gonna win we got this so that's the thing everybody coffin race is it downhill or do we do we put a motor in it no no downhill let's go just just just flat right no no motors just no that's gonna be

expensive we're talking about brakes right yeah've got to put brakes, right? How are we going to do brakes? You just have those strings. The same way they do soapbox ones in the 50s. Like a shovel underneath? Yeah, you pull the thing. That you lift up and drag? Yeah, you pull the thing and it stops the...

It scrapes on the wheels. One of those. We're not responsible legally for any injuries or anything that happens. There will be waivers. We're not providing these coffins. You're going to get them. We're just going to be waivers and you will buy your own safety equipment. Absolutely.

You're going to have more safety equipment than Dale Earnhardt Jr. Yes. It's going to have our name all over it, but we will hold zero responsibility for anything that happens. Did fucking Goodwrench pay for when a senior died? I don't think so. I doubt it. Yeah, I don't think so i doubt it yeah i don't think so so he is a he's a car salesman that's what he's doing he's an auto guy kent richard jones they

arrest him at his workplace go pick him up at a car dealership in big lake in inver grove heights okay he's arrested at the car dealership there. He is married with four children at this point and a Cub Scout guy. So they look into his past a little bit. He has a 1995 conviction for domestic abuse. Uh-oh. And a 1996 conviction for insurance fraud. Okay. There was a shed that burned down and he said that there was all sorts of stuff in it that

they later found that he didn't say was in it. So, yeah. They say, though, they did not charge him with the arson of the shed. So that's nice. Okay. Yeah. So since the murder, he has moved three or four times but lived mostly in the Becker and Big Lake areas. So in the general vicinity here.

Hasn't left. Nope. So they're reviewing all this shit and they said well why did you keep going back to him and one of the investigators said some of the comments he made just didn't jibe with what we were looking for just just a little off there was a little off here um they said they didn't seek because everyone said why didn't you get a dna sample from him i don't know 10 fucking years ago years ago nine years ago and he said well because his wife gave him an alibi so he wasn't one of the people who was anybody with an alibi was on one list of crossed off and anybody

who wasn't would then get a dna sample and that would cross them off and so what if what if some sheets and and some clothes started that fire in that shed that there you go. I mean, it was like six years later, but still, he held it for six years. We don't know. So they said when they did ask him, he refused, and he was one of only three or four suspects who refused when asked to voluntarily submit a sample.

So then a judge signed a search warrant, and that's how they got it. So the testing the sample revealed his DNA DNA batch pretty perfectly and he's arrested. So Charlie said, quote, and this is talking about Bruce's with a cop he talked to, said a long time ago, Bruce promised he'd call one day with the answer to this case. And that happened Tuesday at three o'clock. A big burden has been lifted from our shoulders. He said he remembers Jones as a neighbor who's just a normal guy. Didn't know him well, but knew him from community functions.

Sure. And he said, this is something I would have never attached to him. He was never suspicious of him at all. That was never... Never had a clue. Never on the radar. Wow. His excuse... Because he's going to have... You think he's just going to go, oh, I did it now? Oh, no.

What? He's going to say, I didn't do it, but I'll tell you why my semen was there. It's disgusting. Yeah, he's a terrible person. So he said, I'm wondering how he could go all these years holding this in, living a normal life while we're trying to solve this. Next now, Sandy, the sister, who's now Sandy Halverson. So apparently that Swanson didn't work out here. Okay, must be a dick yeah he's a dick fuck swanson here so sandy or or she didn't like the alliteration i don't

want to be sandy swanson i'm just not into it so she uh talked about her sister and um she said i never knew what a burden i was carrying until it fell off of me she said the last time i saw my dark-haired beauty of a sister, it was two days before her death. She was sitting on the family's couch, hair pulled back, laughing about how happy she was with her life and how great everything has worked out. Two days later, that man took her away. The world has lost something with Linda's murder.

Now, his story is, okay. He says, look, all right, now that I'm under arrest, his lawyers have a new story. It is that, yes, he knew Linda Jensen, and they had a brief affair. That was the point here. He said the semen that was found there had been, Jesus, quantity and deposited

are two things I don't like with semen. The semen had been deposited there when the two had intercourse the day before the murder. Okay. So, poor Charlie. This is fucked up. So, Charlie, now they're running her through the mud now,

saying that this was some affair she was having, and Charlie is devastated by this, as we'll talk to. But him and the sister, their way of saying bullshit is fucking hilarious. They're hilarious. It's really awesome. So, the state convenes a grand jury which indicts him for first degree murder committed during the course of criminal

sexual conduct. Not good. An excavator here, a guy named Russell Pittman, he's a neighbor, he said the gruesomeness was quite shocking. It was a sex crime and a tragic murder and it seemed like that was way above what a small town like this would run into. It was a sex crime and a tragic murder, and it seemed like that was way above

what a small town like this would run into. I was shocked. Deb Craft, who works as a waitress at the Lake Cafe, old Deb from the cafe. We all can see Deb. That's an angry woman. We can see Deb, and yeah, she's got a real one of those real clipped Minnesota accents. Really here.

She says, this is the biggest case I can remember here. This one just touched a touched a nerve because it felt like how could this happen out here in the country in Big Lake? No way. Maybe it happens everywhere, Deb. Yeah. We have four hundred and sixty nine examples of very small towns where it happens everywhere, Deb. Yeah. We have 469 examples of it. Very small towns where it happened. Yeah.

It happens all the time. Basically the same thing, Deb. It's all the same. People are the same. It's just quantities of them. Yeah. If you get a small town, you get 10 shitty people. There'll be one murder.

I'm just using round numbers. If you get a city and then there's 100 shitty people. There's 100 people. 10 of them will happen because there's 100 now. It's just no matter what it is. It's deposits in quantity. It's all per capita. Per capita, babe. Per capita.

He's awaiting trial, Jones. While he's awaiting trial, his cellmate goes to police telling them that Jones confessed everything to him in extremely exquisite detail. Just very to the T of what he did. Is he trying to scare people? What's he trying to do? I don't know if he's trying to scare people, if he likes to talk to people. He's a Cub Scout leader who's in fucking, I don't know, you know, maybe. So trial comes around. So trial comes around.

Opening statements, the prosecutor talked about the brutality of the attack and how Linda Jensen struggled for her life as her infant daughter sat in a playpen nearby. Shit that juries hate to hear. Not a fan. Nobody likes to hear that. He spoke of the cuts and bruises that she sustained trying to fight off her attacker and how she was choked, sexually assaulted, and stabbed slowly and repeatedly with a 10-inch knife taken from her own kitchen. Right. You say all of that, that jury's like, we better have a real good fucking excuse for this, because wow, I want to murder this guy. They just neck snap and look at him and go, defend that.

There's people hissing. There's like a paper ball comes from the back of the room hits him in the head people don't like him i realize the burden's on them but they just proved some shit and i rebut it yeah they have dna so what do you got yeah now the defense their whole thing is the attorneys argue that the semen only establishes that yes yes, they had had sex, but not that he killed her. No proof of that. Yeah. Yeah.

But. Jones's attorney told jurors that investigators never found fingerprints, palm prints, shoe prints, hair fibers, or tire tracks linking Jones or one of his vehicles to the crime scene. So I don't know what you're thinking. Now, he does say he was there fucking her, though. So. Right. You know what I'm saying? They didn't find it now he does say he was there fucking her though so right you know what i'm saying they didn't find it but we know it was there because we know you were there to be there yeah even by your story his house right yeah even by your no no because he'll say he snuck out so even by your story you were there the day before right and they didn't

find that stuff so it's obviously possible for you to be there and not find that stuff because either you were there to fuck her or you were there to kill her one of the two but then they've got a professional and uh somebody that's an expert mind you that knows that a specific protein or or whatever frothy shit don't worry oh boy no he's a problem that guy's a god we'll talk about him but that's that not in this. Not right now. He had something specific, son of a bitch. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's ruining it. Not enough quantity, maybe.

I don't know. So, yeah, he said none of that stuff. They also talk about a gray pubic hair found in Jensen's pubic area that was never tested or identified. Oh. Also, they said material found under her fingernails was not linked to Jones. Hmm. Which is very strange because there was a big fight. Yeah.

So that's odd. They also say the statement by a postal carrier points to another potential suspect. The carrier said she saw a man with a gray beard walk down the driveway to get into his truck and had red streaks on his hands. walked down the driveway to get into his truck and had red streaks on his hands and um but the defense attorney here says that that carrier will testify that the man that she saw was not jones he doesn't fit it at all so jones testifies he's gotta there's you have to explain this otherwise it's just you left a fucking quantity of semen in somebody who died so you're going to the fucking you're going to jail he admitted to a bunch of shit that probably he wouldn't like to admit to in court yeah um as far as his life is

goes he said he had two affairs in the late 1980s and early 1990s he said both of which he hid from his wife he said that he withheld information and lied to police investigating linda's murder because yeah because you because he lived nearby and he said that he didn't want his wife to fucking find out that he was banging her. So that's, hey, come on. He told jurors that he didn't rape or kill Linda in her home, and they said, well, then why all the lies? Why'd you lie?

And he said, the fact is I didn't want to bring forth the fact that I had an affair with the woman the day before and she ends up dead the next day. It frightened me. Okay. Okay. He testified that he admitted that he knew Linda Jensen and that they had an affair. He said that they had sex the day before. He said he had a five-month affair with her from October 91 until the day before her death, and that's what happened.

He said that they had sex three times in that period, from October to February. Each time at his home, he said on the third occasion, he said he always wore a condom there. But he said on the third occasion, the condom he was wearing broke. So that's why there was semen there yeah he said that this was the last time he saw linda alive and he said that the next day she was killed now charlie though has said her husband said that he and his wife were together all day february 23rd oh no time. No time for them to hook up. Yeah, he said that Jones is lying. He said he spent the whole day there.

Now, Jones, on the other hand, had said that he spent the whole day of February 24th at home with his wife the day of the murder. He said, I was out the night before, but I was home that day. He said he was unemployed. Like we said, she was unemployed, so they were all at home. He said he made a phone call to the choir guy.

That was that. So then they ask, this is great, the prosecutor asks Jones on the stand, he goes, let me ask you a question here. Uh-oh. Jones is about 5'7", about 250 pounds. He's a fucking sloppy shit. He just looks like a sloppy fuck. You know what I mean?

And she is not. She's very attractive and in shape, Linda. So the prosecutor asks how a fitness fanatic such as Jensen, who is more than 10 years older than you. And all of this. How was she attracted to a 5'7", 250-pound fucking guy at the time? How is that possible? And he answered, I don't know, but I guess she was. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. So they straight out, the defense attorney straight out asked him, did you kill Linda Jensen? And he took a deep breath and he said, absolutely not.

I was at home. Absolutely not is what OJ said. So Kent's wife testifies. All right. She tells the jurors her husband was at home with her that morning when Linda was raped and killed. That's that. I was home. The topic of their sexual relations were brought up.

Jones's wife told the court that she did not think she should be required to answer the question. Talking about their personal sex life between the Joneses here. So she said, I don't think so. Which is fucking amazing, honestly. Can you do that? No, as we'll find out. Well, it's interesting. So she said, my husband was at home with me.

I know that because I know that because of our structured routine at that time. She said that she was enrolled in community college and attended classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but was home on her with her husband on the other days of the week. And that was a Monday morning when the murder happened. She also said that she did not notice any cuts, bruises, or scratches on her husband's face or arms or bloody clothing that belonged to him or missing clothing that belonged to him. She also said she did not know of any affair and, in fact, didn't know that her husband said that he had one with Jensen

and with a woman before he met Jensen until court when she heard him testify it. Oh, shit. She said, I am deeply hurt and I'm shocked. The whole entire thing sickens me. But she says he was home with me. He didn't kill her. So they said, would you you were convicted with your husband in of insurance fraud in 1998. So you're a liar.

You know, like you've been adjudicated a liar remember when you were a liar you're still one so they said would you be still a liar providing a false alibi for your husband and she said absolutely not who else said that him he said i absolutely, and OJ. I am here to tell what I know to be the truth, and that my husband was home on February 24th, 1992. Now, what about the mystery man? Yeah. The guy who was thin and scraggly with red streaks on his hands.

And had a sick truck. He had a cool, cool fucking weird flat bumper debadged pretty badass little truck yeah um she said i just kind of shrunk back uh i just felt something was wrong he was acting funny and strange this guy so they said could you have been looking at could this man have been looking at the pickup truck that they had for sale and she said i guess so yeah I don't know so there's that so basically it's DNA and against all

without DNA they have it who gots nothing not a fucking thing so that's really all that proves is that he was having sex with her at some point it doesn't prove everything but if he can't prove he had an affair with her when if it's just his word on it then it's like why are you having sex with her?

And then within that time range, she's been beaten and everything else. So the verdict, seven women, five men on the jury. They deliberate for nearly 14 hours over two days. Wow. So they are as, you know, they're not sure. And the verdict comes in and he is found guilty. Yeah. Of first degree murder here.

Sure. When the verdict was read, Deborah, who is Kent's wife, Jones's wife, and one of their teenage daughters broke into tears. And Deborah, his wife, who just found out he was having affairs that he testified to in court, said, quote, we love you, Kent. And he said, it'll it'll be all right. It'll be all right. Will it? Will it? Sentencing comes around here.

Let's see how it's how all right it's going to be for him. The judge says it's not going to be all right because you may fuck off life in prison. It's not all right. Not all right. With parole, though. With parole. You can't get parole. So Sandy Halverson now, again, the sister,

she said she's happy, thrilled. She said, when I heard guilty, I got peace because we got justice for Linda. He said they saw through his lies. He tried to drag Linda through the mud and dirty her with himself and he couldn't do it yeah he she then said quote my boogeyman now has a name the monster in my dreams now has a face jesus so that's the therapeutic though anyway charlie jensen said this the husband quote no way in hell that my beautiful wife would look at a slob like that.

May he rot in hell. Attaboy. Yeah. My wife would not lower herself to fuck that guy. You would never get a consensual lay from my wife, you son of a bitch. One of her qualities, picky about the penis. That's one of the qualities there. Very penile. For any flaw that she may. That's one of the qualities there. Very penile.

For any flaw that she may have had, one of them was not the gratuitous fuck of ugly people. She was a discerning connoisseur of penis that would not, not that she was looking for penis, but she, you know, she wasn't going for bad penises. Like someone who's into wine. It doesn't mean they're drunk, but they like wine. She likes an opus. Leave me alone. Yeah. Fuck off. I want a full body. She likes the best ones. Like someone who's into wine. It doesn't mean they're drunk, but they like the wine. She likes an opus. Leave me alone. Yeah, fuck off. I want a full body.

She's like, it's game is penis. Yeah. So they said, quote, or he said, there's one person missing from my family today, and no matter what the jury decided, Linda will not be outside waiting for me and my two sons and my daughter. Never ever will there be any forgiveness by anyone in my family, which I like to hear. Yeah, I think I get that people, you know, that's a religious thing for forgiveness and all that. But do you?

You're just saying that you don't forgive them. I super hate you forever. Fucking hate you. Be honest. If they put this guy in front of you and said, here's a chain so you can cut his head off right now and no one will care we'll just kick his fucking corpse into the canal and forget it ever happened 95 of percent of people go fuck yeah make sure it's full of gas and crank that bitch up i'm in high octane let's let's fucking go let's do it i want the rpms to hum for at least seven seconds because that's all I'll need.

That's it. Fuck that shit. Yeah. Who wouldn't want that? Their wife was brutalized like this. Jesus. So an attorney is retained by Deborah Jones. Okay.

For him. And this guy says there's always a strong desire to avenge a death as tragic as this. But in this case, I think they've got the wrong individual. Is that right? Oh, yeah. So 2004, he appeals. Okay, this is when it gets hairy. Yeah.

One of the things he appeals on, and this is one of those things that people, nobody knows how this actually works, the legalities of it, marital privilege. Oh, for when you're married, you don't have to testify against somebody. Yes. Now, Jones argues that he has satisfied the first prong of the plain error test because the district court committed an error when it directed Debra, his wife, to answer the prosecutor's question in violation of the marital privilege statute. But all they wanted to know is if they fuck, right? Or what kind of fucks with it which is private you can call that a private thing inside of a marriage that does not have something to do with a crime but this is the thing you have to object when that comes up okay

you have to say this is a privileged thing but the failure to object to his wife testifying against him at trial at all you have to object to the whole thing you have to say i don't want my wife to testify against me constituted a waiver of marital privilege you have to say ahead of time when they say we're going to call your wife you have to go no marital privilege and then then you can fight it out okay but once they're once they are subpoenaed and you haven't said shit now marital privilege is waived and she is a regular witness just like everybody else that has to answer all questions brought before her so that's how it goes it's people think that you can marry people don't have to testify that's an old sitcom you know trope it's one of those things so okay yeah so a lawyer can probably pull that shit as like uh to see if they'll object if they

don't object we get to hear this. You get to do whatever you want. Yeah. They said generally a failure to object by the non-testifying spouse constitutes a waiver of the marital privilege. We have set the marital privilege waiver threshold at a level that allows the fact find sound policy of protecting the marital relationship without erecting, again, erecting artificial barriers to the ascertainment of truth. Yeah. statements made on the record by defense counsel that the defendant did not object to his wife's testimony based on defense counsel's mistaken belief that under the special circumstances of the case, the defendant did not have a marital privilege. The defendant's failure to object did not constitute a waiver of marital privilege. And that's what he's going on. He's going on, well, it was a big mistake. So they said Jones argues that his failure to

object at trial did not constitute a waiver of his marital privilege. And they said, unlike that other case, there's not anything in the record to suggest that Jones or his attorney believed that Jones could not exercise his marital privilege to prevent his wife's testimony, nor does Jones make such a claim on appeal. So they said the special circumstances involved in the other case that has the decision that he's going off of none of that exists in this case they said we conclude jones waived his marital privilege when he failed to object to his wife testifying at trial fuck off um so yes now evidence also they the court here the judge they say used the wrong standard to decide whether jurors could hear evidence that two other men might have murdered her. Oh. His attorneys wanted to tell jurors that two other suspects might have killed her. The judge, Alan Pendleton, used the incorrect standard for determining whether they could hear about that. They said the inability of Jones to address the exclusion of the evidence about the

other suspects in the context of the correct legal standard seriously affected the fairness and integrity of his trial. Accordingly, you know, we have to do this. So the Minnesota Supreme Court agrees with that. Oh, they agree with that. And they overturn his conviction. Conviction, not sentence. Well, conviction leads to the sentence so if your convictions overturn your sentence is thrown out no my point is sometimes they'll just overturn the

sentence yes exactly for resentencing this is a whole new trial this is the trial not the sentencing oh this is about the trial here so uh that they wanted the jurors should be able to hear evidence that someone other than jones might have killed her That's what it is. So, new trial. Fucking hell. Fucking hell. September 2004 this drags on to. It's been 12 years. He wants new attorneys.

We got your jizz, man. That's what I mean. We have a quantity of your jizz. Right. It's a lot. It's a fucking, I got a handful of it. The whole thing. Yeah, all of it.

Pocket full of jizz. It's a lot. You heard them handful of it. The whole thing. Yeah, all of it. Pocket full of jizz. It's a lot. You heard them sing about it. So he accuses, he wants new lawyers now, though. Okay. He accuses his lawyers of forcing him to lie when he testified at his first trial, which is a big accusation. A, that's not good. Yeah, that's bad.

Also bad for you, sir. You get disbarred for that. Yeah, that's bad for you. Also bad for you, sir. You just said you committed perjury. Yeah, well, forced to by his lawyers. He's asked the court to allow him to fire these public defenders and get new counsel. Meanwhile, a motion is filed in court by an attorney who says he now represents Jones. So they said, we're just getting this guy, even though the court hasn't approved it yet. So that's how this goes here. Jack Graham

is his name, and he doesn't specify which testimony he gave was false and forced to be false. He just says, I lied at some point. Yeah, the motion accuses the attorneys of pressuring Jones to lie to avoid having his wife prosecuted for perjury and having their children taken away.

She testified that she was home all day and that her husband never left the house that day. They said that Jones was pressured to lie and they write or the state would prosecute his wife and take their children from her and put them in foster care. I cannot imagine how the accused as a husband and father could resist such pressure under those circumstances. That's what they wrote in the motion here. The there the attorney who's being accused of this said we while we are familiar with the allegations made by Mr. Jones concerning his representation by this office, we cannot comment on those those allegations. They said they've represented Mr.

Jones in an ethical, professional, and zealous manner, and we welcome any inquiry as to the conduct and performance of this office. So bring it, bitches. We didn't do shit wrong. Absolutely. January 2005, Jones and his new attorney

unsuccessfully try to get Judge Alan Pendleton removed from the case. What? You come at the king, you best not miss. Have the judge removed? You come at a judge saying he's not on the up and up and didn't treat me on the level, and you don't get him off the case,

now you've got to look at that guy every fucking day, and he's not on your side. Judge Alan Pendleton. Oh, boy. Sounds like a serious man. Sure in the fuck, yeah. Yeah, a grim-faced guy. And the fuck. Yeah. Yeah. A grim faced guy. So before the second trial, they said the Supreme Court decision doesn't mean jurors at the second

trial automatically will hear evidence about other suspects. That's going to be pretrial litigation. Yeah, that's up to your lawyers. But the litigation should go properly. So the state public defender here who handles one of the guys handling the appeal or women handling the appeal said, I'd be pretty confident that they can't keep evidence out about other suspects entirely. The court was saying that some of the evidence certainly would be admissible and some of the other testimony that wasn't let in would be admissible also. They said that DNA from other possible suspects didn't match the DNA found at the crime scene. That's the prosecutor said.

So they're like, why should he be allowed to bring those up? And he's saying, well, because I said that I had an affair with her. That's why. And that's none of this matches. So they the court ruled that DNA evidence can be used at the second trial as he was trying to get the DNA thrown out. Wow. Which good luck with that. You gave. So, was trying to get the DNA thrown out. Wow. Which, good luck with that. You gave him.

So, yeah, that's not going to work. No. The DNA thrown out. January 2006, the judge rules that jurors at the trial can hear evidence that points to another suspect. So they do do that in pretrial litigation here. They're talking a lot about the search warrant used to get Jones' DNA sample. That's how they're trying to get they're not trying to get the DNA they found

at the crime scene thrown out. They're trying to get the DNA sample they got from him thrown out. Which he still got that DNA though. If that was bad, let's get another warrant properly. You know what? DNA is quick now. You can just run it through

while we all wait why don't you just hand me that cup you've got and we'll take care of the rest let's just do that so um they bring up uh also they don't want to have the defense doesn't want his ex-girlfriend to be able to testify that he told her or he got all weird about the murder they're like that's not evidence that's just you know that that's just he got all weird about the murder. They're like, that's not evidence. That's just, you know, that. That's just he got weird. So they say the facts underlying the warrant present a close call to whether there was a sufficient showing of probable cause. We're wary of a warrant based solely on the testimony of an ex-girlfriend

about a conversation that occurred eight years earlier. Even though the court determined that Hennon's testimony was bolstered by independent police interviews and jones's own behavior but they're still going to let it in so they also have a new witness here this is fucking great the defense promises a bombshell witness here literally like they're but like nancy grace yeah she's talking bombshell bombshell tonight at the end of the testimony here a witness named terry drahoda here he's the guy who's gonna clear jones's name yeah on the stand this drahoda guy said the mafia was hounding me oh that's how he starts out the mafia was up my ass and he um yeah um he said that he blamed others with tricking him

with false stories claims and all these documents then while being questioned he told the courtroom the who had killed who had killed linda here and he said is kent jones is what i heard oh which is the defense's witness oh no he changes his mind here the prosecutors went high five they were like high five each other great can you say that one more time this is great um so uh she said that uh by the way sandy the sister here she said the trial has been dramatic her last name is rolling now now she's sandy rolling she said she's not upset that her parents aren't alive to see this she said not for the trial not for the circus no that would fucking they die again that's brutal kill him all over again so september 2006 jones's new lawyer asked to be removed from the case

citing a conflict with jones about how he would be paid. Oh, he thought the state was going to pay him. Yeah, no one's paying him. So another lawyer from Oklahoma, Mike Johnston, is allowed to take over the defense. He's got a new story. Papa got a brand new bag here. He said he gives his new story in two 15-minute phone interviews with a newspaper. Oh.

He said, okay, I lied when I told jurors at my murder trial that I had sex with her the day before she was killed. That was a lie. My lawyers told me that's what I had to say. The thing is, I had sex with her at 8.30 in the morning that day. Oh. Yeah. He said from 8.30 to 9 he was at the house. So now I'm at the crime scene.

No, I'm at the crime scene when it happened. In the window of the time it happened. Perfectly. That's where he's putting himself. Idiot. This is what he's saying to the press. This is better. Yeah, this is better.

He said that's why the jizz lines up and all that. He said he snuck out of his house without his wife knowing and was at the house over there for about 30 minutes. He said, Linda was alive and well when he left. He said that his wife, Debbie never knew that he left the house. He said she was busy with other things. I did slip out and was back and she was really none the wiser.

What? Yep. He also says that he saw a pickup truck driving past the Jensen house as he was leaving the driveway. Okay. Yeah, he's going to put that guy. He says it slammed on its brakes as he approached the roadway, and I just drove off hurriedly. I took off, didn't want any part of it here. So then he drove to the Land of Lakes Boys Choir building to meet another member of that organization.

When the person wasn't there, he went home, and then he got to the Land of Lakes Boys Choir building to meet another member of that organization. When the person wasn't there, he went home. And then he got called that person later. Said he wasn't gone for more than 30 minutes. He said it was not a long period of time that I was there. So you figure, like I said, I think it would have been fair to say between 8.30 and 9. He says, this actually hurts my chance of freedom. I if anything it hindered this whole investigation i would have thought that the truth should have come forward from the very beginning so he's out of his fucking mind he's an idiot yeah he said they said well what the fuck this

is going to harm your case and he said that he's scared to death about what happened now but quote there's a time when a man just has to tell the truth and that time is not not right now but maybe someday we'll see he said if the truth won't be heard and the truth won't be seen i was hurt anyway i know what i know and i didn't do this okay that's right so second trial sandy rolling about the trial she said i had said years ago before he was caught that the sheriff fbi and police stopped looking even if they stopped looking i won't i've been told i'm obsessed i've lost friends over it but i want to see justice for linda she's my sister i'm the older sister i should have protected her she's lost friends yeah because this is all she talks about, all she does.

And they're like, I don't know. We're drinking and talking about our kids. I don't know what I'm talking here. My kid's turning six today. Can you shut the fuck up? But it's understandable. No. Believe me.

I know. No, I wouldn't either. One I was telling you before, a relative of mine, not my great grandmother, another one who was murdered and it's unsolved. That's all the wife talked about for 30 fucking years was that. That's it. Everything. Everything. She was crying all the time.

It was 30 years later. Yeah, there's no closure. When there's closure, then they shut up. Until then, it's yammering. And that's human behavior. Because we need closure. We need it. Yeah, for our own sanity.

It helps. So her sister Sandy said, sister Sandy said, she sells seashells by the seashore, I believe is what she said. Dr. Seuss says it. What's forgotten is that Linda is the victim and the innocent person in this. She's been pushed away. They're trying to ruin her reputation and sully her name. Yeah, I would say. Charlie testifies again.

And they said that the truth of the fact is I was at work and I hadn't left during that day. He told jurors, told him the thing, exactly what happened. Left here, got back here. Alibi holds. He was at work the whole time. He denied that there was any problems with his second marriage to Linda. He said it was great. He said he knew he was a suspect early on, but he also told jurors that he voluntarily gave investigators the clothes he was wearing, DNA sample, and anything else they asked for.

And he's happy to do it. And his alibi was solid. So, yeah. Andy also came on the stand, the son and his ex-wife. They both testified that Linda and Charlie were a happy couple who were excited about being married and excited about their newborn daughter. They were newlyweds and they were jacked about it. The DNA, obviously, pointing to Jones, they said the chance that this DNA would match someone other than Kent. By the way, DNA is much better now than it was back in the day.

Yeah, it's data specific. They said it's about 1 in 500 billion. They told the OJ jury 1 in 75,000. At least that's plausible because that DNA wasn't great. There's at least 12 people that match it in fucking L.A. County. Yeah, this is like less than 90 times the Earth's population is chance of this. It's a lot.

A whole lot. So they talk about all of that. They said it's definitely him. They talked about other tests done on samples, including the gray pubic hair and the fingernail clippings. The FBI testing on the pubic hair ruled out Jones

and several other people as sources, and test results indicated that Linda herself or a maternal relative couldn't be ruled out as the sources of the pubic hair. Could have been a family member. Could have been one of hers, they said. There's that. Yeah, could have been one of hers.

So they also said the fingernail clippings indicated Linda was the source of the material under her nails, So it was her own stuff. More testimony said about the tests they do and all that. They said no fingerprints, no blood was found in the residence belonging to Jones. In closing, the prosecutor, whose name is clump with two P's gross K L U M P P clump vial.

That is wow. That's how youP. Klump. Vile. That is, wow. That's how you would spell Klump if it's something that came out of your body. It's Klump. Klump. He said Jones was a habitual liar who killed Linda after going to her house thinking he could charm his way into her bed. He probably knocked on the door. Something about Cub Scouts.

She would open it open it about the truck never know who knows he attacked her after she likely refused his advances then removed a bed sheet and her clothes to destroy the evidence but he left behind one piece of evidence he couldn't take his dna in the semen inside linda so they talk about um they said, during the few years after the DNA match, Jones has given as many of 11 versions of how well he knew Jensen, what he did with her, how he did. It's been 11 different stories he has. 11 and went through them. Consistent, they said, in the most recent versions has been Jones' contention that he and Jensen had an affair that included three sexual trysts, the last of those on the day that she was killed. They said then clumped. This is amazing.

Talk about, first of all, you're sitting there about to go away for murder, but on top of that, he shows a picture of Linda, 39-year-old given birth eight months before, working out, ready to run a marathon, in shape, beautiful,

bright. Then he picked up a picture of Jones and said, unemployed, overweight, receiving disability payments for a back injury and in an unsatisfying relationship with his wife. And he looks to the pictures, looks back and forth, and he says, quote, eHarmony wouldn't match the defendant, Linda Jensen. Does this look like a couple to you when he puts them together? And the jury, like you could probably see them shaking their heads. Body shamed the shit out of a man in public, in open court. In open court.

Look at her and look at him. Would she fuck him? Never. And they're like, she would never fuck him. Never. Thank you. Done. we rest our case ladies on the jury would any of you fuck this man any of you nope i rest my case unemployed

accepting checks for a back injury and look at him and look at him he's not even his wife likes him he's got kids running all over the place oh Oh, man. They said, common sense tells us the real truth doesn't change. What hasn't changed is the defendant's willingness to say whatever is necessary to avoid being held accountable for the murder and rape of Linda Jensen. The defense here, they tell the jurors that Jones immediately after his arrest gave a defense investigator a version of events that's almost identical to the one he told the jurors at this trial. Sherry's had 14 different stories between then and now, but disregard. They said that the attorneys who represented Jones at his first trial did him a disservice by not allowing him to tell the full story. Then he then, the lawyer has the balls to point his finger in court

to the real killer is right here in this court charlie jensen oh the real killer yep they said saying that jensen's alibi for the day uh his wife was killed has holes all over it it's like swiss cheese okay they said charlie like jones was large enough and strong enough to have killed his wife during what was what was everyone acknowledged as a fierce struggle. And the guy says, you don't do any service to Linda Jensen's memory by convicting the wrong man. He's the man right there. I hope Charlie rolled his eyes at him in open court. Yeah, no shit.

I hope he gets acquitted so I can beat the shit out of him in the parking lot. That'd be great yeah um so the verdict comes in less than three hours of deliberation this right yeah i think that and that closing fucking ruined it for him i really do no matter what uh they find him guilty again of first degree murder obviously sentencing comes around and judge again, not happy with him. You, sir, may fuck off life in prison again with parole. Oh, now state law at the time Jensen was killed, called for a life sentence that allowed for the chance of parole after 30 years. OK, Jones, who's 43 at that point, had spent the last six years in custody and will get credit for that time. point had spent the last six years in custody and will get credit for that time so he'll be eligible for parole in about 24 years after this trial oh jesus when he's 67 uh-huh what year is that still pretty young today 2030 i want to say okay all right which is a little bit of time here

um so the sister again here um this is sandy said, I made a promise to her in her coffin until my dying breath. I would do whatever it took to bring that person who killed her to justice. She said, I was out at her grave on Friday and told her it was really close to the end. Please let this be the end. She's not happy with the sentence, though. The family's not happy. They don't want the they don't want the parole ever. No. One of the family members said, quote quote we need the death penalty for guys like this

the way the defense attacked linda and charlie it was overwhelming it was very very hard to contain yourself there's a guy who we knew linda wouldn't even take a second look at again let's stick it his appearance is just taking blow after blow. This smoking hot fucking chick would not touch that fat. He smells like French onion chips, too. Like French onion sun chips. It's a very specific smell. Right in the gut. Over and over again.

Over and over. To hear him talk about an affair and a threesome, because he said he had a threesome with her and somebody else at one point, too. Another woman? Another woman. Another woman. Oh, please. Because they can't resist this guy. They're like, ooh, daddy, show us your SSI checks.

Ooh, show us your disability. Oh, yeah. Show us your prescription bottles, Jacob Boris. Yeah. Awesome. Sweet. So 2008, he appeals again under pretty of similar circumstances as the first time and this time conviction is up fucking hell take that keep going 2009 comes around this was after the

trial and everything yeah finally after all of this remember the woman who came forward in 1992 yeah the tip that led to them getting his dna all this. She finally gets credit for this and is getting money for it. As for the tip. For the tip. Finally. To the conviction. Yeah. After all of these fucking years,

this is happening here. The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension presented Angela Hennin with an $18,000 check for providing information about conversations she had with Kent. She provided this was in 2000. She provided it here. That led to the DNA. And when the state Supreme Court upheld his conviction, that's when she finally got paid. OK.

They waited until he was convicted twice. And so imagine her like, what the fuck? I did my part well on the the conviction in the first place because there was a an automatic i imagine an appeal filed right away that's probably why they didn't send her a check but she probably yeah on on conviction day she's probably like fucking i'm buying a boat the day the dna match they should have cut her a check yeah because if. Because she's not in charge of the prosecution. Suppose the

prosecutor's a fuck up and he can't put a case together. That's not her fault. Did it say lead to an arrest or lead to conviction? Okay. The conviction. One of those fine print. Quickly with this 2012, the Innocence Project

was involved in this. Really? really yes because he's trying to he's trying to say that the dna was a you know they didn't take it right and all this type of shit and search warrant against him and blah blah blah blah but in 2012 the innocence project drops him completely then drops any case that he had um he said if we had found dna from else, that would have been interesting and we could have done an upload to the national database. But from our perspective, there's nothing else left to test. We don't see there's anything further we can do. He's not real sympathetic. No, it's the thing is and they they're looking for DNA of other people that they could put in the mix.

There's no evidence they can present. That could be anything. But he did this. So the director of the Minnesota organization said that about half the DNA testing arranged by these organizations fails to clear the inmate who plead pled for help. So about half the time they're saying, please help me. And it turns out that's just securing their conviction, basically. So they said sometimes it confirms their guilt.

Sometimes the tests are inconclusive and sometimes there isn't enough evidence to test yeah and a lot of those are like guys that are convicted and serving life or they're on death row yeah and there's some dna that's not been tested and they're just like praying that that shit loops somebody else in yeah fuck it just enough and get started on the water there was a month yeah sometimes they actually clear people who yeah there's a cop that that raped children for christ's sake and he was screaming about oh yeah innocence project they did the dna and they're like it confirmed this guy's a fucking asshole yeah he's just wasting time he's like please let it be someone else yeah like i didn't even return his calls after it came back confirming it tell me somebody tripped and dropped their jizz on the scene please so 2023 comes around oh my god questions

about the medical examiner at the time are now leading to questions on this prosecutors and judges continue to dissect the forensic work and testimony of former Ramsey County medical examiner Dr. Michael McGee. Questions are being raised about all high-profile murder cases, especially. Oh, my goodness. Now, the investigators here, Fox 9 investigators, learned that Minnesota's attorney general conviction review unit is reviewing the Jones case. As a condition of that review, the parties have agreed not to discuss the case publicly. Dr. McGee testified at both trials that during the Jensen autopsy, an acid phosphatate test showed the presence of semen. Based on the intensity of the purple color indicating a positive test, Dr. McGee testified that Jensen died during a violent struggle during the

hours of 8 a.m. and 10 a.m. February 24th. The narrow time frame for the killing was crucial, obviously, because it left a lot of people out except for our guy here. But they said Dr. McGee's particular use and interpretation of the acid-phosphatate test is at odds with best practices in forensic science according to forensic experts and recent court rulings uh-oh the executive director for the center for integrity and forensic science sciences kate judson said it's terrible that's not not enough quote to justify that long of an intro she said it's terrible it's terrible god damn it come on kate

i had to fuck your goddamn title is seven words long for fuck's sake and you say it's terrible? It's terrible. God damn it. Come on, Kate. I had to... Kate! Your goddamn title is seven words long, for fuck's sake, and you say it's terrible? Are you going to hit us with, it's terrible? Three syllables. You asshole. Bullshit. You're a dick. Four, but yes, it's bad. Yeah.

So they said the Judson also said, but not in a quote, so it makes it no fun. The acid phosphatate is considered only a presumptive indicator for the presence of semen. That needs to be confirmed by other tests, like P30, which indicates the presence of prostate-specific antigen, or DNA, testing. The acid phosphatate

test reacts to an enzyme found in semen, but that same enzyme is also found in vaginal secretions, and is produced by a body's decomposition as well oh oh yeah this isn't good that's what i said oh i said that too i was like oh no results same protein or whatever the fuck the thing that they found happens when the body decomposes too yes yes so it could become stronger and even show up more. Yeah, but it still doesn't make his fucking DNA show up. Right.

But if the guy doing the test wasn't doing the test right, all that is gone now. Right. That's how it works, as we found out in another case. That one case in New York where the guy was basically in upstate New York there by Albany where he was fucking everything up. And that one kid got convicted of killing his parents who didn't. So Marty, party Marty. Right, Marty the party. Yeah.

So they said results from an acid phosphatase test are also not considered sufficiently reliable or precise for establishing a time frame. This Judson said that's not something that should be done. Many laboratories have rules against doing that, but unfortunately, it's not as rare as it should be. They said it wasn't the last time Dr. McGee used the acid phosphatase test to determine the nature and time frame of a killing. In September 2021, what is called a scorching 232 page ruling. Judge Yikes, 232 pages of scorching. Judge Ralph R. Erickson of the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals dissected Dr. McGee's testimony, calling it unreliable, misleading and inaccurate. Judge Erickson ordered new sentencing for Rodriguez on that last case.

But after this, now the floodgates are open based on mistakes ramsey county attorney john shoy has ordered an independent review of 71 cases where dr mcgee may have provided critical testimony and also ongoing reviews of anywhere he testified on by the great north innocentnocent Project and the Minnesota Attorney General's Conviction Review Unit. What the fuck, man? They're going through this whole list. They call him one guy who got convicted of the murder of his infant daughter.

The judge said Dr. McGee gave false and incorrect testimony, saying the case was forensically compromised. That's fucked up when you have doctor in front of the name. The jury trusts everything you say. Yeah. And they said that these people are all released from prison. The Judson lady said that should be a red flag for folks because we're not talking about everybody making mistakes.

Everybody makes mistakes. We're talking about an error that actually drove a prosecution. Can't do that. So they said, obviously, it's a serious concern. And they had paid him over, by the way, over the years, 700 contract for 2020 in his contract with the county. Paid him $787,000 for his services, plus three assistants and a flat $100.50 fee for each autopsy. Sick. They also paid for his medical malpractice insurance the county paid

for that is fucking why they were gonna be sued anyway so they may as well pay for it yeah so this is obviously a fucking mess yeah shit's gonna come up in this for years yeah this guy uh by the way here's our boy here jimmy kent richard jones yeah great looking guy he's he's got the he's got the fat roll on the back of his bald head does he have does he have hair back there too doesn't look like it looks like he shaved that's a fat roll that's a fat roll wow looks like a little bit of hair half a package of hot dogs back yeah about half an inch hanging too that's that's that's a little bit he's currently incarcerated at Stillwater in the system there. Yeah, his offender number is 200540, in case you want to keep up on him.

And poor Linda is buried at the Fort Snelling National Cemetery in Minneapolis. Are they questioning his conviction still, though? They haven't gotten that far. That was 2023. So there's still unraveling cases to see which cases his testimony was wrong. And it's not great, though. It's not great. But the thing with this one is that the old boy went to work at 630 or 7.

The kid went to school at 8. That kid says mom was still alive. Obviously, he's questionable reliability. But mom's dead by the time the husband comes home. He definitely didn't do it. This guy's DNA is inside that woman. That's the problem. It doesn't matter what time. I don't give a fuck

about time frame. Do you? What if the DNA is thrown out? Now what do you have? If they throw the DNA out entirely? Let's say there's a new trial and you've got to go to a new trial without being able to use any DNA evidence. You just have a lady said that he was weird about it in 1992. That's literally your only thing. Can they get the DNA thrown out just by him saying that the timeline is this?

It's still DNA from somewhere else. You know what I mean? But if he used false scientific practices to get to it then it's all it's all garbage fruit of the poison tree i believe they call the whole thing the whole yeah that's the whole measurement that's the legal term when like a bad search warrant or something will one thing is messed up and you get all this anything that's from it they call fruit of the poisonous tree because you just it's all fucked anything that fell from that tree is poison and ruined and fucked so and it's shit so there you go oh boy then who knows what's going to come out of that so that is big lake township minnesota lovely very weird lovely

place very weird case yeah if you liked it tell the world get on whatever app you're listening on you can rate and review on all of them please do that give us five stars say something nice tell us what your favorite flavor of jelly for a peanut butter jelly sandwiches you like grape you like strawberry you like something weird some fig shit or something let us know peaches i don't know get in there let us know and uh do that please also shut up and shutupandgivememurder.com. Merchandise. Live shows.

All the live shows for 2024 are on sale. Two of them are sold out already. Unbelievable. Get your tickets. April 5th, Sacramento. April 6th, San Francisco. You're up first. Tickets available for that.

Also, Minnesota in September, if you sell this out, will be our biggest show of all time. We're jacked for that. So please do that. Help make this the biggest show of all time. We're jacked for that. So please do that. Help make this the biggest show of all time for us. That'd be really cool. Get your tickets then. Also, Boston and New York, that's in December, so you might be putting it off. It's unbelievable.

We're going very fast. Get your tickets now for those, just to let you know. So thanks to everyone who's done that. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime and sports, where you get all of your bonus material, anybody $5 a month or above. You get the whole back catalog. You get new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder.

You get it all, baby. This week, what you're going to get for Crime and Sports, we're going to talk about, oh, man, old newspaper personal ads. Yeah. What did you do in 1992 when you couldn't find love? You make a paper airplane out of it and send it out the window you call the local newspaper give them your stats and then sit and wait and hope somebody mails you a letter that's what you did wait by that mailbox yeah we are going to read some of these personal ads and they are awesome we've done it before and we

love it and then for a small town murder we're going to talk about the Collier brothers. These were a pair of kind of shut-in people in New York City who were just hoarding in this house, in this brownstone, and people complained about it. And eventually they found out one of them was dead, and they had to cut out a wall and pull it. It's a crazy story. They had mazes of newspapers. It's nuts. Terrific. Crazy shit. We'll talk all about it.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you're going to get a shout out, which is going to happen in a second. But definitely, before we get to that, listen to our other two podcasts. We're leveling with you. Listen to them. Give them a try. You're going to like it. More people listen to this show than any of the other two shows.

Obviously, this is the most popular. And we would like you to give those a shot. Crime and Sports is really good we get it if you don't like sports the word sports in the title and hearing some stats might drive you off but trust us we keep lots of comedy landmines in there for you it's a lot of comedy and a lot of crime and then your stupid opinions literally there's no reason it's not what a party we all read reviews some we all it. So these are hilarious reviews that we make fucking ten times funnier. It's the goddamn funniest show there is.

So listen to it right now. Come give it a run. That said, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful people who cannot wait to listen to your stupid opinions on crime and sports and would never leave quantities of semen anywhere. Jimmy, hit me with them right now. This week's executive producer is Sharon Jones. Happy birthday, Sharon. Happy birthday.

Kyle Norwig, I believe, is over in England. He's going to watch the virtual show where you can buy tickets February 22nd. Virtual shows. Yeah. And Cody Garcetta at MugsAndMore.shop. Evidently, he's giving 30% off to people with promo code turkeys. Our turkeys get 30% off of mugs and more at mugsandmore.shop. Terrific.

Big ad. All right. Wow. Other producers this week are great. Hope he put in more than the five on that one. He sure did. He stretched his fucking five otherwise. You son of a bitch cody that's a very cheap way to go get advertising it's genius on your part cody gachetta that's why we did it

other producers this week peyton meadows diana in ma, Janice Hill, Trey Volkanar, Stephanie Addis, Dalton Johnson, 31, Maura with no last name, Merica Izor, Alyssa Marica. All right. Allison Enos, Brooke Andress? Jesus. Serena? That's a fascinating way to spell Serena. S-A-R-I-N-A-H? That's got to be Serena, right?

Yeah, I've seen it, but not with the H. That's new. That is interesting. All right, Becky Smith, Wendell Whitmore, Samantha Brown, Nikki Holler, Adina Smith, Catherine Lowe, Kaylee Moore, Hannah Rebecca, Samantha Breach, Rock Langston, Sherry Cooper, Courtney Belenji, Kenneth Dialoos, Justin with no last name. Samuel Winau. The Kim Reaper. Emon with no last name. Eamon, maybe?

E.J. Hanson. Michael Hilton. Anthony Yasso. Marky Wynn. T.S. Irish II. Leo with no last name. Michael Sweetman II. Enrique Bush.

Megan with no last name. Cryptid Zef. Ingrid Carey. Molly Bojera. Kiana Butler Clint Salisbury Drew Dessen Maggie Byers

Amaryllis May Casey Ryan Armando Martinez Matt N. John Ramirez Marty DeLellis Allie Darling Susan Alonge Aaron Pittman, Jelen, Jelen, Jelen, Jelen, Jelen.

What is that? Jelen? Is it Jelen? Just Jelen. Is it Jelen? Janelle Jackie, Lenata, Lenata Larson, Emma with no last name, Anne Marie Watson, Leanne Stavrakis, Stavrakis, Stavrakas. I don't know. Stavrakos. Stavrakis. Stavrakos. I don't know. Stavrakos.

Stavrakos. Yeah. Is it a Greek name? Yes. Yeah. Larissa Yarmulich. Add that to the list. Italians.

Eastern Europeans. We'll add the Greeks to the list of names Jimmy can't pronounce. If he wasn't on fucking Full House, I wouldn't know how to say his name. Kathleen Reeves. Jess Bromley, Andrew Payton, Brad Webbs, Carrie would know last name, JD would know last name, Tina Fabby, Zach would know last name, Amelia Bennett, Sheena DeStefano, Kimberly Kuhn, Alyssa Atchison, Jason Runick, Lori Moore, Rylan Sisk, Valerie Reed, Annette Mora, Lisa Hensley, Joseph Kucinich, Mary Friesen, Koda King, Jason Marin, Joey with no last name, Julie Armstrong, Musty with no last name, Stephanie Scutagazza, Salem, Sulem, Sulem Lopez, Andrea Baker, to scootagaza salem uh sulam sulam lopez andrea andrea baker uh syphia at uh psy fyi i don't know what that is bryce with no last name lauren mcdermott geroid geroid discount mugs

sorry talked over that last name you want to to say that again? And more, Jay. And more. Sorry. Couldn't help it. Geroito, Connor, Leah, Goltz, Oh, Belatio, Belatio? Boletito. Johnny Felatio. Connie Cunnilingus. We got all sorts of people. We're just making shit up now.

Blowjob Barnes. Boletito? What is that? Belatio Barnes. Jennifer Blum. Julie Devitt. Go forth. Gina Everett, Delilah Jenkins, Harold Jewison. Jewison? All right.

John Rose, Alec would know that's his name, Rachel Eckhoff, Donald J. Plant, Alyssa Hernandez, Joel Val, Laura Colbrook, Gregory Bradshaw, Grand Mimi, Faith Krizzle, Mary Bailey, Amanda Lambert-Alloway, Helen Thiel, Peter M. Janey, Gresham, Stasia, with no last name, Emily Garr, Pat Walter, Anna Santini, Josh Rokusek, Josh Warner, Scott Warner, that's what it is, Elizabeth West, All right. Josh Warner. Scott Warner. That's what it is.

Elizabeth West. Robin Hallmunt. Ashley Rowe. Jason Kuhn. Frantic and Frowsy. Alexi. Oh, those are probably dogs or something, right? Alexi with no last name.

Nana with no last name. Jessica Parker, but not that one. Emmy Manisik. Maransik. Sean Lankes. Payne with no last name. Rachel DeVoe, Caitlin Barber, Vicki Wilkerson, Coffee Shakes, Celia, Celia, Dena Poe, Tyler Barton, Lydia Y.E. with no last name. Just this show brought to you by the letter E. Salisbury, Thomas Stonestreet, Moss Shuttner, Ryan Luchmi-Persad, Ross Tomlinson, Scott Brady, Trisha Mitzel, Teresa Moore, that's a name, Dana Santos, Paige with no last name, James Nilsen,

Cadence Blackledge, Scott Erickson, Jamie Barnes, Brian with no last name. Daniel Rios. Kristen Burden. Zachariah. Zachariah Croach. All right. Colton Hug. Brandy Slaughter. Alicia Noltner. Swim, everybody. Aaron Teets. Megan Crozier.

Celeste Duport. Jump. Sarah Morris. That's going over. DB with no last name. Kevin with no last name. Kelly with no last name. Bunny with no last name. G-Ma with no last name.. DB with no last name. Kevin with no last name. Kelly with no last name. Bunny with no last name.

G-Ma with no last name. Aiden with no last name. We're almost out of lifeboats. Jordan Dietrich, Chelsea Tanner, Josh Weintraub, Nicole Gray, Dr. Jizz Cummington. We're all going down with the ship. TJ Williams, Julia Bulick, Head 100, CHO cho snap i don't know what any of that means sam r simone that's the name of this ship it'll be on the side of it at the bottom simone stratton brennan sharp a lack alexandra zoft zoft yeah no it's not all like those fucking

remember those zots those candies fuck those were rad with the fizz inside i hope alexandra's got that money mark connor uh todd mavray less uh elizabeth fight timothy rogers amina ziggler leon spinks his massive hog i imagine it was blanche when he talked about it lady was afraid of it oh that's right susan anderson la carl blom uh johnny helmers amanda Wheeler, Wendy Vanderberg, Brighton Hayes, and fucking every one of our patrons. You're amazing. Thank you, folks, so much for all that you do for us. You're fucking unbelievable. Any of you want to follow us on social media, real easy to do.

Just go to shutupandgivememurder.com, drop down menu. You can follow us. You can hang out with us. Keep doing it. Keep coming back. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye.

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