Small Town Murder - #476 - The Missing Psychic Gypsy - Estes Park, Colorado

Episode Date: March 22, 2024

This week, in Estes Park, Colorado, a frantic search is on, when a well known local Romani gypsy Psychic goes missing, leaving behind blood, spattered around her house, and a missing piece of bedroom carpet. Her husband is the main suspect, but he is nowhere to be found. Psychics everywhere chime in with their theories, until one of them comes remarkably close to the truth!Along the way, we find out that "The Shining" could probably happen to anyone, that apparently being a psychic is passed down through the generations, and that alleged psychic ability can't predict murder!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay, choo-choo. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on a really, really wild, weird show we have for you today. Great. We're going to dive into a whole other world today. It's really strange. Can't wait to present this. It's going to dive into a whole other world today. It's really strange. Can't wait to present this. It's going to be amazing. Before we get to that, quickly, shut up and give me murder.com. Tickets for live shows, Sacramento, April 5th, San Francisco, April 6th.

You are up first. Get your tickets. Still some tickets remaining. A lot of these shows are selling out very quickly, so get in there. That's crazy. One show, in case you can't make it to a regular live show, or you want more live show, anywhere in the world you are, 420, April the 20th, virtual live show, from us to your living room, just like a regular live show,

but you're at home with your own booze and your own weed and all that. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be so much fun. We can't wait. And it'll be available for two weeks after that, too, so you can watch times as you want if you can't make it to it that night you can get to it you know later on in the two weeks whatever you want to do there shut up and give me murder.com though is the spot for all of that patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all your bonus material oh yeah anybody five dollars a month or above a cup of coffee man what are we

talking about a mere cup of coffee instead of. What are we talking about? A mere cup of coffee. Instead of that, you get hundreds of back episodes that have never been available anywhere but Patreon. And new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and it's all yours. So this week, which we're going to talk about, for crime in sports, you really don't have to like sports to be interested in this. In-ring boxer deaths. Fantastic. People just beating to death in front of a crowd full of cheering people.

So you don't have to have any sports knowledge for that. And then for small-town murder, we're going to talk about the Mel Lyman cult, which was a cult from the 60s and it lasted for a long time. He was called the East Coast Charles Manson Mel Lyman. So you can imagine that's an interesting one. We'll get into all that, some good hippie stuff. Good stuff. Oh, what a sweetheart. We'll get into everything there.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. That said, I think it's time, everybody. Oh, boy, let's go. Let's all sit back, clear the lungs. I don't care what you're doing out there. What are you doing? Slicing deli meat at a subway? Take a handful of turkey and throw it right in that person's face.

And then you take a deep breath and arms to the sky and you shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Let's go on a trip, everybody. Feels good. Feels strong this week. I love it. Let's go on a trip.

Let's do this. We're going to Colorado here. Oh, yeah. Colorado. That's one week. I love it. Let's go on a trip. Let's do this. We're going to Colorado here. Oh, yeah. That's one of Jimmy's favorite places. He loves Colorado. It's beautiful there. It's hard not to like Colorado. This is Estes Park, Colorado. Estes Park? Did you say Estes?

I think I said Estes like Testes. Testes Park, Colorado. I wanted to say Estes Park, and I said Testes Park. I've heard it, and I knew it, and I said Testes Park, Colorado. I wanted to say Estes Park, and I said Testes Park. It's Estes Park, yeah. I've heard it, and I knew it, and I said Testes anyway. So Estes Park, Colorado. North Central Colorado. Pretty close to Wyoming, actually.

It is, yeah. You can get up there pretty quick. It's about an hour and a half from Denver, which is about the same distance that the airport is from Denver. Right. If you're coming in or out of Denver. It's very convenient. It's fucking crazy. It's very nice of you to put the airport is from denver if you're if you're coming in or out of denver it's very convenient crazy it's very nice of you to put the airport in nebraska for us to get yeah it's it's very nice that the uber ride costs the same as the plane and takes almost as long it's really

great oh now i have the second leg of my journey fucking hard i hope you don't have a layover somewhere oh you're screwed. It's about four hours to Walsenburg, which is our last Colorado episode, episode 423. The killer has something in his pants was the name of that one. My God, that's so far from here. It's way down there. It's all the way southern Colorado. Population here, 5,942.

So not a lot of people. Is that right? Under 6,000. Yeah. And the median household income and home price are way out of whack. Quickly, 5,942. So not a lot of people. Is that right? Under 6,000. And the median household income and home price are way out of whack. Quickly, we'll go over. Yeah. Median household income here, $56,166.

Wow. Which is less than the national average. Median home price, more than twice the national average, or about twice. Yeah, strap in. Mother fuck. $634,200. Brutal. Colorado. Brutal. Colorado. Brutal.

Calm down. Stop it. There's a lot of you to be that expensive. There's a lot of Colorado is what I'm getting at. That east side of the state, there is nothing. Yeah, you go from the airport to Denver, you go, seems like a lot of room out here. I don't know why everybody's so goddamn expensive in there.

Putting up 15-foot horses out here, for Christ's sake. Giant blue ones. That killed a man. It literally crushed a man to death. We were told that by a foreign Uber driver. Yeah, that killed somebody. He thought it was cursed, that guy, which was hilarious. So the land here was still being homesteaded as late as 1914 they were still

giving it away and whoever showed up you could just claim it so that's that's way late for that shit too so yeah um not bad and uh they had a lot of floods here that's the main issue quick we'll go over 1982 they suffered severe damage in july from a flooding caused by the failure of the Lawn Lake Dam. They said, quote, locally, and the report said, after years of disrepair and neglect. So it broke. That's Colorado. Oh, my God. The downtown area was extensively renovated after the flood.

That's how much it fucked everything up. And a river walk was added between Main Street and Elkhorn Avenue. So there we go. Then there was also a flood of 2013 as well oh here we go yeah both u.s highway 36 and u.s highway 34 the major routes into town were severely damaged so it was like you were in the shining at that point because that's where this hotel that hotel is here too right hundreds of residents were also isolated here by the destruction of sections of Fish Creek Road and all nine crossings across the Fish Creek. So the people were just trapped. Wow. Couldn't get out of their houses, couldn't get anything into their houses.

Just stuck to flood water. Yep. Oh, and then if that wasn't bad enough, damaged sewer lines dumped raw sewage down the creek and into the Big Thompson River as well. I remember that. That's pretty gross. Yeah, yeah. That's disgusting. No, fix your dams, everybody.

Reviews of this town. Let's find out a little bit about it. Four stars. Here's one. Estes Park is the quintessential small mountain town. Right. Some locals might refer to it as a hamlet. The town is small enough to get around on foot or bike.

might refer to it as a hamlet. The town is small enough to get around on foot or bike. People generally know each other, and it's often that one has to stop and wait in the street for an elk herd to cross. Yeah. Well, that's charming. I like elks. I like elk.

That's cool. They're vicious, though. Those things are mean. You've got to watch them from a distance, yeah. Estes Park is a tourist destination town and located at the foot of the Rocky Mountain National Park. Restaurants tend to be casual casual and retail is sparse. There's no denying the scenery is amazing as the town is located in a mountain valley.

Okay. Here is three stars. Current resident who rents and works year round. The town has a lot of beauty, but I can't pay the exorbitant rent with sunshine and rainbows. It's a little expensive tourism growth is prioritized without supporting the workers and families that keep this town running where is the workforce housing where is any all caps year-round affordable rental i need something the homeowners

here will rent to you in the winter and kick you out or ask for $4,000 a month in the summer. Right. Holy shit. Because the summertime here is fucking magical. It is incredible. Then there's an excerpt from a very long one-star review. I'm going to give you one sentence out of it that I find hilarious. Quote, it would be easier to go hiking in Fallujah. Would it?

Would it? Through the desert? That's not really easier. I don't think there's any. I don't think there are any IUDs. Is that what they are? IEDs. Yeah. Improvised explosive devices.

So things to do here. Number one, the Stanley Hotel is here. You know the Stanley Hotel because even if you've never seen The Shining, you've seen a meme, you've seen a picture. You know the hotel from The Shining. It's that big, scary, crazy, old ski resort building that Jack Nicholson tried to kill his whole family in. So that's what's going on here. That's what's there.

And you can look that up. There's tons of weird folklore and strange goings on and hauntings and everything else. You know what it is? It's just people go stir crazy in a little mountain town. That's what happens. And it's creepy and desolate and it's dark early in the winter and it's cold and the wind blows and people lose their fucking minds. Being in a valley, the sun has to get up, up, up to get over the mountain.

And then when it goes down, that mountain's there. So it goes down earlier too. You've only got a low window of sunshine enjoy it a little glimmer of it and then there's also frozen dead guy days which fuck is that if you listen to this as soon as it comes out on the early release it's this weekend it's this weekend yes it's right now grandpa we went over this in a small town festival patreon episode i that's why it sounds familiar grandpa Grandpa Brito is over 120 years old. For years, he was a resident of a tough shed in the hills above Nederland, Colorado, just 40 miles south of Estes Park, where he remained very, very, very cold.

These days, Grandpa is still frozen in a state of suspended animation awaiting the big thaw, the one that will bring him back to life. Okay. So they have a huge festival here uh they have a polar plunge where they say dress up in your craziest costume and take a frigid plunge into a frozen pond god there's also the coffin races right the legendary have you heard of this yeah we covered this on the right colorado there's a reason why they do it and i didn't even know it until recently a girl a girl's coffin was on earth james yeah yeah yeah on accident the earth just rejected her like a splinter yeah this one's no good yeah it's a bad one unbelievable uh coffin races are a teams of pallbearers race head to head through a course full of obstacles. Wow.

Okay. And then there's tons of bands playing here, including Float Like a Buffalo. That's a band. Okay. I like it. Let's see. The Dead Fish Orchestra. Okay.

Who else here? Future Joy. You don't get it now, but in the future. This is for later. Gary M. Hall and the Occupants, which I don't know. They're squatting somewhere, I believe. They're occupants.

That's it. You can't kick them out. That said, let's talk about a murder, everybody. We could talk about Frozen Dead guys days for a long time. Let's talk about a murder we're gonna get into a strange world here just a weird world uh let's talk about a woman first let's talk about kathy adams is her name yeah sounds very middle of the road whatever very normal kathy adams she's born in 1953 in 2010 when our the crux of our story takes place she's going to be 57 years old uh so psychic k

is her aka oh psychic k she goes by and kathy with a k kathy yeah yeah with a k um now psychic k k-a-y in the fort collins area is very well known she had this pink house that she did psychic readings out of and there she had ads in the paper all the time so everybody knew of like in fort collins people go who are you psychic k like that was be like the someone predicting something so it was like a joke psychic k is the uh what was that jamaican lady that wasn't jamaican cleo yeah miss cleo and fucking dion warwick was on there telling people right future give me a break since when did todd bridges have psychic powers really yeah so uh kathy because we'll talk about her and the man she meets are both from the same world here kathy is one of nine siblings in the Addams family.

And they are the Addams family because there's some interesting stuff going on here. Now, Kathy had been, she was married and had four children as well. So she's a psychic with four kids and an ex-husband. She's been working as a psychic for a long time. Her brother Gary said she's had psychic ability as a teenager she started

figuring it out and it's continued through her life he said quote it got stronger and stronger as she goes okay well the day she got married you should have seen that divorce coming right yeah this isn't going to work out never mind and by the way we will not do any should have seen anything coming jokes because every newspaper article let off so if every newspaper article if those writers thought of it that's beneath us and we can't that's our last one yeah but how are you as a psychic how can you ever get divorced like yeah you should have known yes anything that happens bad you should have known everything you should have the most charmed life. If you're on the side of the road and your car is like, you know, smoke's coming out of it and you're standing there waiting for AAA, fuck you.

I'm not coming to you. Why'd you leave the house? You knew that was going to happen. You knew that or you're, oh, you're a liar. That's what it is. Okay. It's all bullshit. I don't believe psychics generally.

Some people know some weird shit and you're like how the fuck do you know that but yeah the general like if you go somewhere sit down pay somebody to give you a psychic reading i generally think that's probably bullshit for the most part but there's certainly that i don't know yeah i'd certainly trade that power of knowing what's going to happen to you in your life for uh what the fuck is wrong with my car. Yeah, what happened here? So in 1990, she gets together with a guy. His name is John Marks Jr., of course. If you listen to crime and sports, you know that's a bad sign. He was born in 1962, so he's about nine years younger than her. Okay. He's 48 in 2010.

They're going to be together for 20 years and never get married, too. Really? But they keep calling him Common Law, and she uses his last name as like her business name. But in reality, her legal name, I think, is still Adams the whole time. Okay. So that's how that goes. To describe Marx here, he's 5'10", little chubbies, about 210, 220, kind of guy, black hair, brown eyes, and a criminal history that includes driving while ability impaired, drug possession, and a whole bunch of other shit like disorderly stuff. You know, general craziness.

Now, they're both Romani gypsies real unquote gypsies if you watch if you watch uh the you know any of those gypsy shows on tv this one of that one big fat wedding or whatever the fuck they are that's who they are they're okay those people um and also known as travelers if they're like of the english islands uh they're ireland or scotland those are travelers as we know because we know people that are travelers and uh yeah they're i knew some gypsies growing up that would that would buy and sell cars yeah yeah yeah they're yeah that's that's one of the things going on here now um they live in fort collins so they move there in about 2002 ish okay they live in fort collins she opens up a

psychic shop in fort collins at the pink you said at the pink house she works as there's a big sign that says psychic k it's located on harmony and timberline road and uh we'll talk about what happened there now it i found her an ad from the Internet for Psychic K. Oh, great. Psychic K is alternative medicine, astrologers, children's and family entertainment, clairvoyance. These are all the categories she's under. Hypnotherapy, party entertainment, party services, psychic arts and sciences, psychics and mediums, spiritualist company. And it has her phone number and all that sort of thing. 2024 East Harmony Road here.

Okay. Now, I found, like, her business stuff. She established her Psychic K business in 1999. She's listed as the owner. From a newspaper ad from the day, I found Psychic K renews loved ones. Does that mean she rises people from the dead or makes them love you again reanimating folks that's an odd promise renews loved ones solves all problems immediate results that's a lot to promise yeah i'll say beetlejuice ad i'll solve all your yeah that's exactly what

it is i'll solve all your problems i don't like that that. That is a lot. Chew on the dog. So then in 2004, I found in the newspaper that she became like a local – people use her as a reference because I found from the Fort Collins, Colorado, Owen, I found a person talking about the 2004 election, an op-ed about it. And she's talking about how you know she's trying to make predictions for november 2nd and she said i briefly considered consulting my daughter's magic eight ball but it's broken i predicted that would happen when we bought it psychic k was never home when i called she must have known i would try so hilarious she you can just reference psychic k in in Colorado in the newspaper. Everyone knows who you're talking about.

So that's how known she is in the area. She's operating here. She said she sees between 10 and 20 customers a month, which isn't even one a day. That's weird. Yeah. That doesn't seem like enough to have a physical like, you know, storefront. Yeah, that's that's all. That's a lot of money you've got to put out and rent.

And how much are you charging per reading charges between twenty five and one hundred and twenty five dollars a session? Oh, that's not enough to live. Doesn't seem like a living depending on the type of paper. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's got to be doing something. Maybe she's like doing, you know, Grubhub on the side or something. I don't know.

She's doing something because that's not enough money to live on. That's not enough money, no. A lot of her customers would drive from other areas of the state and even down from Wyoming to see her. Oh. Yeah, she's famous in the area. So she has problems at home with John Marks Jr., though. As you should. He's a dirtbag.

I'm just going to come out and say it. He's a scammy scumbag. Wait till you hear about his family and what scammers they all are, too. So her brother, Gary, this is Kathy's, Psychic K's brother, Gary. I guess Psychic Gary we'll call him. Psychic G. Psychic G. There was a lot of domestic violence, he said. She used to live here in Atlanta, and she was scared of him.

Because he lives in Atlanta, Gary, the brother. He said that Marks Jr. was always angry and frustrated, and jealousy was a big issue with him. Very jealous, too. When Kathy visited home for the holidays, she said Marks was forced to come around because he wouldn't let her go by herself. That's what the brother said. He'd have to come around because he wouldn't let her go by herself. That's what the brother said. He'd have to come too. He even said, quote, he'd get upset with her and say, there's too much love around your family and stuff like that.

Ew, what? He doesn't trust that she's not going to fuck her brother or something? Your family likes you and stuff. I like all these hugs. I bet you fuck your grandpa. You guys touch each other. I saw him give you a hug, and he asked, like, how you doing, and gave you a card. Fucking asshole.

What are you talking about? Cheeks on my cheek. That's gross. Gross. So 2005, the Pink House closes. Yeah. And it had a big, bright Psychic K sign and all of that. We'll talk about why, because there's an article in the newspaper about it.

Really? Psychic leaves Pink House on Harmony in rental dispute. And they're talking about the owners want to redevelop the site because I'll show you what it is. It's just a fucking pink house. Oh, yeah. And after this, it will become a huge multi-thing complex with a landscaper and exterminators and all sorts of offices.

Yeah. John Cougar would be pissed. Oh, they tore down a little pink raise pink houses around here sony mitchell not thrilled either it's a very large parking lot so it's all fucked up man yeah they should do a duet about it so they said quote perhaps psychic k should have seen it coming, is the first line. Okay. God damn it. From 20 years ago in the newspaper.

Rick Abramson of the Coloradoan. Thanks, Rick. Thanks, Rick. The psychic. Thanks, comic Rick. Rich, not even Rick. The psychic, who has run her business from the signature pink and white house at one of the most sought-after corners in Fort Collins, has left the house amid a dispute with her landlord.

The property on the corner of Harmony and Timberline Road stands alone among among dozens of national chain stores and restaurants. It's like a business district. And there's this old house that's been there forever. That's just that's just times are changing. And you got you got to keep up. That's all times are changing. You got to keep up. That's all it is. Marks ran her business out of her home for about three years, but recently moved to another house at 4308 North Garfield Avenue between Loveland and Fort Collins. And her husband, John Marks, also lived in the buildings.

Clifton Jones, the owner of the 1500 square foot house and its adjacent garage, posted an eviction notice on the property over the weekend because he said the Marks owe him about $10,000 in back rent. Oh, shit. Which is what we figured when we heard those prices. She probably owes about $10,000 in back rent. The Marks is releasing the building for about $1,500 a month. And the business didn't even, I mean. No. It's like eight months of back rent.

Yeah, it's not going to work. They said that the owner who lives in Austin, Texas, owned the property for the past seven years and said he was frustrated by the dilapidated state he was in when he recently came to check on it. And they were trash. They let it go to shit. Yeah. The yard is overgrown. The paint job fading. And trash is piled by the side of the house.

Well, the paint job's on you because you own the house. Yeah. It's a repaint. And the weeds is your issue, too. But you should probably mow your own lawn. I rented a house for a couple years and had the paint out of the yard mowed because I didn't have time. Yeah. And up there, yeah, you do have grass.

You're right. Yeah. And also the trash piled by the side of the house, that's not the owner's fault. You can't do that. Yeah. He said, quote, it's really a disgrace what they've done out there. Oh, a disgrace. A disgrace.

They promised me they'd take care of the place. John Marks said he and his wife moved a couple weeks before they were evicted because Jones, the owner, had failed to repair the roof or fix the plumbing. An agreement both parties apparently made before the Marx's started leasing the house. And John Marx, the husband, said, I must have tried over a dozen times to repair the roof myself, and he wouldn't repair the roof. So, yeah, they said they're going to knock it down and they're going to redevelop it into a 22,000 square foot property as an office space thing.

So that's what they're going to do. They're going to raise the buildings and just redevelop it all. They said it's a very good location. So if that's the only business she was doing and she's well-known and it's a great location, it's not a big psychic draw here, really. No. It doesn't seem like it's a real viable business, but whatever. John Marks said they'd rather come out this way.

It's more private and the parking is better. They're a new place. So he's like, we're happy to leave. So October of 2010 comes around. She doesn't have the pink house for five years. Yeah. Having lots of problems. Apparently she is planning to leave John finally.

It's over after 20 years of his assholery and the abusiveness and saying your family loves you too much and weird shit like that she's finally ready to fucking leave um but uh on october 11th 2010 john marks calls the sheriff's department and says that kathy locked me out of the house. She knew I was coming home that fucking damn it. I can't sneak up on her. I called the cops that she locked him out. And because she disappeared.

Okay. So I don't know why if it's his house, he wouldn't just break into his own house, which would be the. Yeah. Wouldn't you just figure out a way to break in or call a locksmith? Maybe he's dumb and he just has seen cops way to break in or call a locksmith maybe maybe he's dumb and he just has seen cops and how they can i don't really open a door fast yeah they come kick my door open please they're pretty good at it but it's weird to report that she had locked him out of the house and disappeared okay well what do you call tell your mom that tell your brother that

what are you telling me that for? Thanks. Have a nice day. Your common-law wife doesn't like you anymore and you can't get in your house? That's a you problem. Okay, bye. Did you run out of gas too? Anything else? Are you hungry? What else can we help you with?

Jesus Christ. So the next day, because apparently this is over a period of a few days when Kathy's sister was also trying to get a hold of her. So on October 12, 2010, Kathy's sister requests a welfare check from the sheriff's department. She hasn't heard from her sister in five days. She usually talks to her, and she can't get a hold of her at all. And this is in 2010, so cell phones and everything else. This isn't like, I don't know, maybe she's at the grocery store and I keep missing her type deal. Social media has really kicked off by now.

Big time, big time. So it's on the 2900 block of East Mulberry Street. Deputies arrive at the home. They knock on the door, check the rear of the house too. No answer inside. Seems quiet. So from the statement the police released to the media, they said, however, there were suspicious circumstances that allowed deputies to enter the home. Deputies found no one inside the home, but located evidence that prompted investigators to suspect foul play.

Now, what might that evidence be? Yeah. Foul play evidence. Well, the things they found are it's pretty obvious here uh mad foul it's this is yeah blood found in the drains that's foul that's pretty foul how often do you bleed out into your kitchen sink or bathroom sink probably not often if i've got enough blood that you can see it in the sink yeah start a search party because i'm probably dead somewhere i've run i've plumb run out somewhere and fell over i'm out of blood i'm probably dead somewhere i've run i've plum run out somewhere and fell over i'm out of blood i'm certainly leaking something yeah i understand that anybody who's paid

attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that i killed my wife hi my name is zach stewart pontier i'm one of the filmmakers behind the Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes,

you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Also, around the washing machine. Blood around the washing machine. Oh, boy. In the home here.

And a piece of carpet was missing, which is also terrible. When there's a big piece of carpet cut out. It's always bad. That never looks good. Yeah. Because I've never gone to a house that isn't a murder scene and seen a big chunk of carpet cut out of it. Yeah. A rectangle six, eight inches bigger than me is a bad rectangle.

What was that, about a six and a half foot long, about a four foot wide chunk of carpet you cut out? That's not, that's normal, right? That feels like a body could fit on that. Yeah. So, seems about body-ish. Like a stretcher. So they put out a thing saying, you know, we're looking for this woman because they can't find her. Her whole family's looking for her.

She's eight brothers and sisters and everybody else can't find her. So she's 5'3", 100 pounds. That's the description. She is tiny. Tiny, 5'3", 100 pounds, red hair, brown eyes. Adorable. Yeah, yeah, totally. And she might know you're coming, so be careful.

Yeah. Don't think about her. Not easy to spook her, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. So more evidence here. This is the evidence they they while they're thinking there's foul play besides the blood because sometimes people cut themselves who knows yeah well her niece also told police that she was talking to kathy on the phone when john she heard john in the background say i'm going to fucking kill you. What the fuck are you doing? Oh, boy.

Which, yeah, I'm going to fucking kill you is pretty straightforward. It's direct. I like the directness of it, honestly, if you're going to do something. But this is disturbing is what it is, actually. What the fuck are you doing? So she's hearing abuse in the background is what she's hearing. That was on October 8th. And that was the last time anyone in her family heard from her ah so it's a bad phrase that's not good the last you've heard is i'm going to fucking kill you what the fuck are you doing then she disappears and there's blood around the drain uh-oh that seems pretty foul

right yeah as it gets yeah yeah now her sister kathy's sister had bought her a plane ticket to atlanta for october 10th so she was supposed to she was leaving that's how much she was leaving she was leaving clear across the country yeah but she then delayed the departure for a week so she could help her grandson because she has kids and she's got a grandson she had to help her grandson out with something. So she said she would come like a week later. She told her family at that point she was done with her marriage and wanted to come back to Atlanta due to, quote, multiple instances of domestic violence. Right.

Oh, by the way, a clump, just a good-sized handful of John Marks' hair was found on the kitchen table in the home. His hair? His hair. Just like a little merkin sitting there. Like he was just... He's missing like a yarmulke-sized hair patch somewhere. Yeah, he's just got a chunk missing somewhere. Beautiful.

And there's that. They believe, looking at all this, they believe that violence occurred in the bedroom is where they believe. They don't know when anybody would have been killed or anything like that but they believe that some violence had started in the bedroom um and they said then it looked like somebody made a sloppy attempt to cover it up was how it works yeah a lot of times if you're not good at it the cover-up ends up ends up making it look way worse than it would have to begin with. When that's messy, that's not good. They found an 8 by 10 foot section of the carpet cut out of the bedroom floor. That's a tip off right there.

Half the room's carpet's gone. And there appeared to be blood spatter on the closet door. And the whole place smelled of bleach. It's like like holy shit of all those facts don't you just turn to him and go do you want to just get in the car with us i mean what are we doing is he in the car already we we already know man it's harder to find waldo than it is to fucking to figure out something very bad happened here. Both pages for a little while.

You go, maybe he's on this one. No, maybe this one. There he is. Right up the middle. He's by the hot dog stand on the beach. That's where he was. I kept looking by the water. That's the problem.

So this is a lot. Well, they don't put him right in the car because he's not there because he just disappeared. He took off. He called the sheriff's department and said, hey, I'm locked out. She's not here. And then left. Okay. And so the next day is when the welfare check happened.

And so no one knows where he is. So they're investigating. They're seeking him for questioning at this point. They are tracking his movements through a cell phone, too. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's 2010. And he doesn't know that.

No, and he's a dummy. So, after viewing surveillance video from the Longmont Area Hotel, investigators said Marks came into the hotel on October 13th at 1.30 a.m. wearing gloves. Jesus, man. Okay. Then left about nine hours later in a different vehicle leaving behind the vehicle he drove there with is there anything you could do dude to make it more to look worse yeah hold on let me put these gloves on there we go now i look really guilty dragging a body into the room

or something yeah that'd be the only thing anything carrying a rolled up carpet just like drag struggling to drag a rolled up carpet like taking a breather every once in a while and then putting it in a different car yeah he pulled up in a buick and then left in a different car left the buick behind yeah so also surveillance video it's so hard to do things nowadays you know yeah yeah uh surveillance video from the walmart super center in fort collins shows marks buying this buying tape and gloves here and surveillance video at the walmart shows him buying not only duct tape razor blades and gloves as well sir this is just couldn't get any worse where are you where's your

giant garbage bag sir if you come up at two in the morning with that you go sir are you looking for the giant garbage bags and possibly a chainsaw because we have all of these things for your body disposal i mean if you if you got a little bit of effort there's hacksaws there i mean i mean yeah i don't know what kind of shape you're in yeah maybe you want to put a little elbow grease into it we got you covered are you are you painting sir what do you please tell razor blades and knives please tell me you really need to shave and paint badly i really would like to know that are you trimming out are you trying to cover up the trim in the room is that what you're doing to are you painting is that? Is that what's happening? Is that it? So now the brother, Gary, says, we're just trying to find her. I hope to God she's alive.

Yeah. So it's not looking good for this, though. I feel terrible for this woman because she apparently put up with a lot of shit from this guy. No kidding. For decades. It was abused quite a bit and then was finally getting the fuck out. Like had a plane ticket, was ready to go and everything done. Yeah, done. And then this is so this is a scary thing here.

So while she's missing, there is a Web site here that Allison found that was Empathy Insights dot blogspot dot com. empathy insights dot blog spot.com. Okay. Blog spot. Yes. This is where somebody did a psychic reading to try to figure out where Kathy was because of Kathy's psychic abilities. This person thought that there would be, she'd be extra in tune to be able to find her.

Right. Okay. So they did all of this. They said, it's very important that readers of the blog understand this. Therefore, no one has to be very discerning when reading. Media news can put out stories that are not factual and are premeditated, but tarot can pick that up. So tarot can cut through all the bullshit is what they're saying. Yeah.

False reports, things like that. It's a deck of cards, James. It doesn't mean that tarot is wrong. It shows tarot can see what might be suggested. However, when writing, the tarot may be taken as a fact. So there's that here. They said it cannot be considered 100% accurate. Please note, tarot picks up past present and future vibrations

oh so i'm going to tell you they can get crossed and if it's wrong there's a lot of reasons why that's possible which seems like it'd be about as accurate if i said i think this is going to happen yeah you know i don't know when you have to qualify your reading it's bullshit well the fact that like seven chicks in high school did tarot card readings for me tells me that i don't think all of them brought a gift probably you know what i mean i think that's just a fun thing that some people like to do and it's fun and who cares it is fun you should like put your whole life on it that's the you're probably closer with one of those uh four-sided things that mash things you're gonna live in a mansion with julie and drive a pinto drive up why is there always a pinto always that that was you know you can't have it all jimmy that's why you never know i love when you had

you're married to a supermodel you live in a a mansion, and you drive a Chevy Chevette. Wow. How is that possible? Why don't I move into a smaller house and buy a car that runs? This is ridiculous. I'll bet she's leaving soon. Yeah, she's not going to drive in that fucking thing. So they said that they cannot guarantee 100% accuracy. I can provide glimpses and hope they may be of assistance.

So here it is. My first question is, what happened to Kathy? And she has a card. My first card for Kathy is an attempt to find out what happened might play out differently, but it's what I have asked. That sentence is crazy. What the fuck? Tarot has given to me the two of wands reversed.

I always think of threes as families, but here is the two or more people. And when that is upside down, something is remiss between them. The very first thing is the card is wands, which shows a great deal of energy when it's upright, but when reversed, this energy gets drained out. There's a total lack of impetus here or clarity in a venture. in a venture. The card shows her joining up with someone who should have had good business results where you put all your ideas together and you let them set sail and wait for the results. Your ship's to come, but here reversed, there's a terrible fear of deception likely in business or with property, definitely spelled wrong, sorry, ulterior motives and some kind of creative block of some sort. I feel a risk was taken here against someone's better judgment. Someone is not being realistic about the situation.

There's no cooperation in business at all. Okay. So just reading that back, this lady has linked up, this is still the reading, with someone in business, trusted them or felt she could. And then it probably dawned on her that this was not a good idea, perhaps a bad risk. Then realize that to realize to that she possibly has been deceived. I would definitely read the card that way. I would do this because the card is the two of wands and general meaning over business, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Tell us where she is. I think we have the picture here.

I see someone pretty confident in this card, but I also see someone else who's wanting to exploit that person who will oppose their visions. I'm guessing from the brief link that the guy pictured there might be the exploiter, meaning her husband. But we shall see. There may have even been three people involved here. However, let's just say one was pretty confident in their thoughts and ideas

and one was opposed by someone else. Okay. My next question is to establish where Kathy is. That's the important part, really. Right. Bear in mind it may be completely wrong, okay, but there are ships in the Three of Wands. So that could have something to do with the shipping, except the reversed card, they are in port.

I mention it, yet it may not be of any consequence in this manner. However, looking above, I'm seeing a slightly unpleasant card. This card tells us that it's all ruined, in quotes, which is either an intuitive message from Kathy or indeed could be exactly what it looks like on that card. The card is a man laying there with like a dozen swords in his fucking torso. Three of wands. I guess that's what she says.

I don't know. I don't know what the fuck that is. That's a shitload of wands. That's like a 12 of swords. It looks like. Yeah. So she says that if that, says that if that is a location, then one will expect to find Kathy near a coastline because there's water right next to the card. I have the back in this picture, and if it were health matters and not location, I would have thought that this person had back problems or some kind of accident to their back.

or some kind of accident to their back. Not sure that's exactly what I'm getting, but backstabbing is not far away from my thoughts, whether literally or figuratively, which could make sense with the business card flop that has already appeared. Sure, sure. Some people may know that the number 10 card is considered the aftermath, so it's the aftermath of an event where Kathy ends up,

at least I am feeling that's what I have. That's what that X is. That's the 10. Okay. It's a Roman numeral 10 up there. It also says, previous to this card is a very distressing scenario of Nine of Swords, is someone who is absolutely terribly worried, can't sleep, has had a lot of turmoil running through their head.

Nine of Swords shows a bedroom scene, but we are looking at the Ten of Swords. We are asking about location. So I see her in the bedroom, upset and distressed. Then we have this card where someone is clearly laying out near water. Okay. Okay. Now, by the way,

none of the, we found the blood and all that. None of that was released to the public yet. Oh, so she doesn't even know if there was a bedroom incident. No, that's that. I will give them that.

That was shit came out. Hard gave her that. Exactly. They didn't release that right away. a bedroom incident. No, I will give them that. That shit came out. A card gave her that. Exactly. They didn't release that right away because that would have been, you know, they just said they were looking for this husband to talk to them. There is a book to be found. It might be an itinerary book or accounts book or some kind of journal. Anything on paper that can be significant, so I will give that. Ten of Swords is direction.

For direction is east. It gives me spring and sunrise. Well, spring is not much use in autumn, is it? So we could consider spring as a part of the location name, worth considering. I'm getting the brain and nervous system here and possible problems in relation to that. A complete sensation of overkill, so a lot of force appears to be applied. There seems to be a divorce bankruptcy lost tears etc all general upset in this card i never liked this card very much and i'm sorry i'm sorry to see it because it will indicate that circumstances may be far from pleasant

yeah the indication this card never that's funny i don't like this one yeah the indications are that it is a man in the picture of ten of swords. Oh, this is ten of swords, not the three or whatever. But I can't decide the gender. Let me mention that this is not a death card. Many people assume it is. What I can say is it's not necessarily a death card, but it does show bottom line for everything because it shows everything is completely spoiled. So then they said, when will they be found?

Where will she be found?, when will they be found? Where will she be found? Or when will she be found? Three of wands was because that's the next card in the wands series. Oh, you're right, you're right. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So this card is like an eight. It looks like a bunch of sticks on it. Let's see, eight of sticks.

It looks like an eight of twigs. This card is a great speed, generally wands meaning weeks, but it could be any time beforehand and Kathy will be found. Note that there is countryside, hilly area, and house and stream all in that picture and that could be part of the landscape at the time. I'm not

sure if an aeroplane has some arrow, she says an aeroplane, has something to do with the situation but I'm going to mention that even though I can't place its significance. Kathy appeared to rely on the Knight of Pentacles, possibly with a money venture, believing that person would be stable and viable and someone she could perhaps trust. Okay.

The location of the ten bleeds into the Page of Swords. I have almost always seen this as a hill which can have an actual name. Railways come into it, sometimes not always and someone swinging a stick, that clearly suggests something predatory. Someone has spied here on someone

else. Lots of secrets and peculiar matters. Well, psychic would be spying technically wouldn't it? Being a psychic? You're spying like a motherfucker. I would coastline railway hill spring number 10 east direction possible container involved somewhere and something about the end of the year someone with problems breathing then she says phoenix or they say phoenix or peacocks and ultimately a bit of bad juju i will leave this as a brief synopsis and this is a brief overlook. I will come back and look again.

I think I will take a look at this case up to I think I will take a look at this case up to police knowledge at the current time, then see if I can improve location and see what might connect to what I have. OK. Interesting. Yes. So they talk about all of this they're talking she keeps talking about they keep talking about a hill and all this type of shit um they said i asked tara where kathy had been between october 7th and 14th and i got the chariot which means two things basically either she was in a car crash physically or symbolically, or the actual fact is she didn't go anywhere because her journey was postponed, meaning she was stationary. Ten days late!

A week later, out of that, wow. That would indicate not a lot of movement. Asking where Kathy was between the 14th and 22nd of October, I'm being given temperance reversed. This card's a complete lack of control, total imbalance, loss of patience, and a good lot of arguments going on between two people. The card previous to this is the lovers reversed. Their union stinks in this card, and there's a smell in the air, which is not nice.

It could be over alcohol because temperance has a wine cup in it. Okay. So they said drugs or alcohol could be a part of this or strange lust slash sexual matters. It's all there. It all arises in these cards. This is more than a domestic dispute as it takes into account every avenue of this couple's lives where one of them is dominant and the other one gets better in the situation. This person is basically saying, I don't think this is going to end well. Yeah, but they're also saying it's over either money, sex, or drugs and alcohol, which are

the most- Could be factors. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah, yeah. A drug- It's the ruiner of all relationships. No shit.

No shit. Or money. Jesus. So they're also asking about John, and they're trying to figure out where John is through all of this here. And they're talking about one of them is a cliff with water nearby.

The previous card is the fool. That shows someone also by a cliff with a dog biting their ankle. He has bags packed, so he intends on going somewhere. Music is part of the fool card. Maybe he has decided to face the music. What kind of music that is, I don't know. Is it his own sense of facing the music or a general sense of facing up to one situation? So they said, I could be

wrong, but cliffs can be hills. I would be more explicit with this, but the next card is something we can look at. So they're basically saying, look for cliffs and hills. This guy's on the run, which we knew anyway here. It's a weird situation. So it's a little while later where the car is found. Where's it at? It's at that hotel. Oh, that one.

That's how they figured out to get the footage. Once they found the car, then they looked for the footage and said, holy shit, he's got gloves on. He leaves in he leaves another car this is weird so they find it's their buick it's in a hotel parking lot they send in a cadaver sniffing dog which alerts on the trunk of the buick oh so this by the way john had bought this car a few weeks before Kathy disappeared. It's pretty new. In three weeks, either she was in it or the previous owner is transporting corpses. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, Religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people.

With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit

with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed, red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this

one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Yeah. The investigators also found inside the car gloves, garbage bags and cleaning supplies. John. Not good.

They traced it back to Walmart, got the surveillance footage and said, oh, there he is buying all this shit. All these things, yeah. October 23rd, 2008. It is 1108 AM when Laramere County Sheriff's Office deputies are called to an area of Highway 36 near the border of Boulder County on a report of something laying in a ravine off the road. Oh. Upon closer inspection, they determined it to be a body.

They couldn't tell. It was so decomposed they couldn't even tell gender at that point. Wow. So they said the body had, you know, just decomposed to a terrible state. And they said that there's,

you know, they don't know anything. They said no indication that this incident is related to any open cases at this time. Body was transported. Two days later,

they figure out it is Kathy Adams, this body. She's died of blunt force injuries. Wow. Which is, they said, actually like a crashing, a beating, that type of thing. She was found, she was dumped naked with injuries from head to toe. Really?

Including genitals and everything. Oh, no. She's been sexually assaulted and every other way possible. It's horrible. She was found duct taped up with the carpet around her. Oh, Jesus. Horrible. Fucking horrible.

She was wrapped also in drapes from the house. Curtains that matched from their house. From a fucking set of curtains she took one of the curtains and wrapped her in it matches the house uh blunt force trauma and strangulation both as the cause of death also said she suffered injuries to her like we said her genital area so her wedding ring was ripped off her finger they said also like ripped off her like her ripped her finger off basically by her wedding ring so that's that's symbolic isn't it that's yeah it's none of her other fingers that's rage yeah yeah give me my ring back it's fucking crazy and also um there was brain bleeding and

11 rib fractures before she was strangled to death wow fucking just a beating a horrible beating a wrapping up and just a dumping unceremoniously down a ravine that's fucking gross horrible gross so the reaction to this uh her sister debbie said this is terrible now it's real everyone thinks that they're exempt from the bad things in the world there's not a lot of good in some people. That's horrible. They must be fucking going. She was this close to being home. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. They felt like finally. A week, and she's in Atlanta starting a new life. If that's your sibling, you've been worried about them for a long time in this relationship, and she's finally doing it and finally going to be here, and that's just horrible. They still can't find John, though. He's still on the run. He's still on it and finally going to be here. And that's just horrible. They still can't find John, though.

He's still on the run. He's still on the fucking lam here and will be for about another week. Really? Yes. October 29, 2010, he's finally caught. And he is caught when he went to a Perkins with his parents. Why a Perkins? Why a Perkins?

You know what? I'd rather probably get arrested than eat the food there. So you know what? Good. Thanks. You guys are saving me. This was in Loveland near the Budweiser Events Center. Loveland?

Colorado. Yeah, yeah. So he was caught off guard i guess he had scratch marks all over his chest when he was arrested still has this is three weeks later almost yeah and he had 1700 in cash in his shoe in a shoe in his shoe in his shoe yeah that's an uncomfortable walk that's a lot yeah by the way the body was dumped in a mountain ravine, which is- No kidding. Exactly what that tarot shit said. So, yep, he had been staying in multiple hotels using cash and aliases.

They just tracked him by his cell phone to see where he was going all around. So they put him in court here. His bail is initially set at $ a hundred thousand dollars but then they up it to a million due to the severity of what he did yeah i would say so they said uh they also declined to change the bond amount noting that marx had taken steps to evade capture when they tried to get it lowered back down again they said no no he tried to escape it's not like he turned himself in right he's running on a straight cash system at the moment that's a man that doesn't want to go he doesn't want to face this.

And they said it was in the newspaper for fucking three weeks that we wanted to talk to him. He knew we wanted to talk to him. Anybody who ran into him said, hey, have you heard? They want to talk to you probably. So he definitely was doing that. Meanwhile, his attorney in court said he didn't go anywhere. Here he is. Still here in Loveland.

He was still around. I mean, he just didn't know where. he's still here in loveland he was still around i mean he just didn't know where so the second degree murder they're talking about that carries a sentence of 8 to 24 years in prison first degree murder carries life in prison or death so according to colorado law a person commits second degree murder if he or she knowingly causes the death of another person first degree murder requires proof that the person killed someone after deliberation and with the intent to cause so there you go now the defense this is the trial here holy shit his defense is that he's a gypsy and you don't understand oh that's his defense i don't think

that that it's a gypsy thing you wouldn't understand. I don't think that's recognized. I don't think it's good for a jury really probably. You don't want to take the Jeep approach to this. It's super weird. So the defense said, listen, you need to know the history of the Romani gypsy culture, which both of these people came from. They're both members of, and they said it's not unusual for members of this community to avoid

contact with authorities because they've had such a long history of persecution. She's bringing up Hitler, and like, you know, because they sent them to concentration camps, too. There's just a lot less of them, but they, so they're bringing up, like, because Hitler was mean to them, but in this country, they're just white people that nobody knows what the fuck they are

unless they tell them hey i'm a gypsy and then they just go oh like that tv show and that's the end of it no one cares yeah yeah that's strange okay um so you have big crazy weddings with ugly dresses sounds yeah heard you've never heard of a bunt cake so you guys wear frilly green puffy prom dresses to get married in all right you spray windex on everything okay that's greeks that's from my big greek wedding that i do remember same shit all right who do you care throw some italian shit in there too it works it's all the same don't worry about it so that's their that's their yeah defense quote they hide because they have a tradition of hiding they hide because they've been persecuted maybe they have but he killed the lady so that's different that's why he's doing it she said a cultural expert will testify as to the very

secretive community that refuses to assimilate explaining why community members tend not to cooperate with law enforcement. And they also said that they were raising her grandson when she disappeared, countering prosecutors assertion that she was trying to flee the marriage. Meanwhile, she said, I need to delay it a week. She had a plane ticket with her name on it because she had to do something with the grandson. That's the point. So the prosecution says, well, I don't know.

There's DNA evidence and, you know, logical evidence all over the house. with the grandson that's the point so the prosecution says well i don't know there's dna evidence and you know logical evidence all over the house here uh from a violent bloody scene at the home and also oh yeah we found shit under finger her fingernails that point to him scratches that you know he's got on his chest yeah so his defense is i ran and that's my culture okay but you murdered yeah you forgot about that part of the murder yeah they're saying just because he ran it doesn't mean he's guilty it's you know he's a gypsy that's why he ran that's what they're saying they're used to that that's that's the whole defense but the prosecution said evidence taken from her body will scream at

you yeah they said that um the the district attorney j Josh Lehman, described the elements as of a, quote, intimate beating and sexual assault by her husband. So they show all the evidence that we just talked about. The plane ticket, she's leaving him. You know, there's DNA, clump of hair, her blood, his shit under her fingernails. It doesn't seem real like a real stretch to deliberate here the closing arguments here the defense team argued there isn't enough evidence to show that marx was the one who killed her just isn't they said some dna samples weren't specific enough to indicate whether marx or maybe one of his male relatives could have left him. Oh.

So all the evidence points to him, but maybe just his brother came over, killed his wife for no reason. Him, but maybe his family, too. Because it's that side the DNA got. It's somebody from the, you know, a male member of this family. Well, guess what? She's married to a male member of that family who happens to have DNA under the fingernails of the victim and a clump of his hair on the fucking table. And then is running. And then ran away.

And used his own drapes to wrap his wife up. Fucking ridiculous. Ridiculous. So the attorney said that the case is complicated. It's really not. It's really not at all complicated. And it's normal for members of the gypsy community to hide and avoid police he also said that if a close relative had killed kathy that john would have definitely tried to

cover it up he wouldn't have helped the cops because he's you know he's a gypsy so after they hear the closing arguments um they were deliberating here this is a second degree murder and sexual assault he's being charged with but right before before it goes to jury, they add another charge. This is actually requested from the defense and the judge grants it. That's a charge of accessory to a crime that was added as an option just in case jurors decide that maybe he was covering up for somebody else. Maybe that male relative shit worked and they think a brother did it and he's just helping cover it up so maybe they'll just give him that so it's four men and eight women on the jury and uh the verdict comes in guilty of murder yeah and sexual assault absolutely yeah guilty as fuck here um yeah so during his sentences family members of k Kathy described him as sadistic and extreme.

Here, her brother Danny said, we can never recover. This man cannot be freed again to put anyone through what this family has been through. Now, two of his three sons were there, and they had a letter from his third son. And one of them said, Kathy Adams never said anything about John being violent toward her. That's what the family attorney said. Wow. Great. Yeah, because they keep it insular.

That's why. I mean, that was the whole reason she was leaving, because she said lots of physical violence. Lots of abuse. Yep. But they said she didn't tell me. Well, yeah, you're not in the family either, so that's why. why he they said would you like to say anything anything you'd like to say for yourself and he said yeah nope i'm good so the judge says okay my turn then you sir may fuck off uh 48 years which is the maximum possible for second degreedegree murder, and on the sexual assault, another eight years to life,

which is to be added consecutively to the murder. So he's got to do the murder time. Then we'll do the eight to life, and every eight years we'll talk about, well, eight years at least, and then after that we'll talk about letting you out. And he's like 50 and not in great shape. You're going to be 113. Yeah. You're going to die in prison at 67 probably, I'm going to give you, if you're lucky.

How about that? Meaning you probably got about seven years to go. You're almost there, big guy. So in 2014, they finally put up that office building where the little pink house was, by the way. Really? Finally, for Christ's sake. Yes, a Geico insurance has moved in there. Fantastic.

It's a 6,600-square-foot, two-story building. There's an exterminator in there and a landscaper. Your psychic is dead, but good news. A little corporate park you can save some insurance money jesus good news 10 on your auto insurance so it's been vacant since 2005 this guy just let the house deteriorate for another 10 years basically which is crazy now 2015 we're let's start talking about john's family because yeah full of scammers okay his son and his son's wife who are also psychics by the way john marks his son and his

wife scam a woman out of 37 000 allegedly here um they say a self-proclaimed fort collins psychic is accused of bilking 37 000 from a woman distraught over a breakup with her boyfriend. Oh, God. This is the son, Stephen Marks, and his wife, Gina. They were arrested, charged with Class 4 felony theft, and additional felony counts of identity theft and financial crimes have been lodged against the wife. theft and financial crimes have been lodged against the wife. Police say the couple convinced the woman to buy mystical crystals from them and to give them Target gift cards, which Gina Marks later spent on electronics and home goods.

The victim of the alleged theft first met Gina in August 2013 for a palm reading after breaking up with her boyfriend and questioning several aspects of her life. Marks at that time told the woman to burn orange candles before bed after six or seven nights she would dream about the person she was to be with. Wow. When the dream didn't happen, the woman met with Marks for a follow-up tarot card reading. I'm going to go deeper into this since she lied to me once.

Might as well give her more money. It's just George Clooney. It's all George Clo clooney dreams what's happening what's going on that's when gina and steven marks promised to work with the woman until she found her soulmate until you run out of money or find your soulmate whichever happens first the woman paid a hundred dollars hundred and twenty dollars for twice weekly meetings oh Oh, God, $240 a week? A week. She was instructed to text Gina Marks about her dreams and open a Bible to random pages and text Gina Marks the chapter and verse. The victim said she kept thinking of the number nine, to which Gina Marks said she needed $9,000 in an envelope, and the two exchanged throughout their meetings.

You're right. The number nine. It's $9,000. an envelope. And the two exchanged throughout their meetings. You're right. The number nine, it's 9,000. Oh, my God. The woman became, isn't that amazing? Nine, that means $9,000 you give me. As the woman started to have doubts about this whole thing and started to realize she was going broke, literally. She couldn't pay her bills. She asked for the $9,000 back.

It's at that point that Stephen got involved, John's son, and the couple convinced her to spend a combined $21,700 on gems that would prevent her ex-boyfriend from finding love on Match.com. Okay. If you're willing to spend $21,000 to keep your ex from finding someone on Match.com, you deserve whatever you get. Sorry. You deserve it. You're an idiot and a spiteful idiot. Fuck off. Yeah. Also, as a failure on Match, don't worry. He didn't find it. No, he missed it. It's not there anyway.

It's not there. Not love he didn't find anyway he found the clap probably but that's he found he found someone that's going to take half his shit in six years that's all right he found red bumpy shit on his dick is what he found so the woman also opened a credit card line at tar a credit line at target to purchase thousands of dollars gift cards which gina marks reportedly said she she would meditate over and return to her. I have to meditate over Target gift cards. That's the only way I can get a reading. You can have these back after I use them anyway.

Oh, yeah. Well, when the woman asked why she never received the cards, quote, Steve Marks said the gift cards were in a Bible and Gina Marks was working on them. Marks said the gift cards were in a Bible and Gina Marks was working on them. Later, Stephen Marks said the only way to ensure happiness was for the woman to spend $67,500 on, uh, on armor of God, which is a,

not a thing. It's not like a statue. It's nothing. It's a spiritual non-tangible item that consisted of a helmet, a breastplate and a sword. Oh my God. They gave her a, a play set and we'replate, and a sword. Oh, my God. They gave her a play set, and we're like, here you go, 67 grand. The cost of a Mercedes.

Here you are. The price of an Escalade. They told her if she didn't do it, her soulmate would forget about her and would, quote, meet a blonde sex addict who steven described as the spawn of satan in mortal form she sounds fantastic this is awesome hope i meet her one day oh about that time she saw reports of scams involving psychics and went to an investigator and then reported it to the police. They determined that the Target gift cards purchased by this woman were used to buy two iPads, an Xbox, a PlayStation 4, a Razor, clothes, a TV.

Food stamps benefit card rounded out a purchase not entirely covered by the gift cards. Unbelievable. And that card was confirmed to be issued to Gina Marks. That's how they had proof it was her. Unbelievable. a different one. Adam Marks, who's another kid of his, was arrested in 2012 and charged with stealing more than $20,000 to help heal a woman's negative aura. Unbelievable, man. Gina Marks pleaded guilty

in 2015 to a felony theft charge and was ordered to serve 90 days in jail and eight years of probation and $36,000 in restitution. Now that, I don't know what happened to the son, so all that's alleged, but that's what the newspaper alleged.

Now, Nancy Marks. I don't know who she is to her, to him. Maybe a sister, because she's 54. She's a suburban Denver psychic who in 2010 was accused of stealing thousands of dollars from clients by telling them money is evil. You have to give it to me. I'll take care of it.

No, no, no. She needed to know their credit card numbers to make sure there wasn't too many sixes in them because that would be evil. So tell me your credit card number and I'll tell you if it's an okay credit card number for you. If it's enough, if not six. Holy shit. They say one client lost $50,000 after giving Marxist credit card numbers when she said anything with the number 6 in it is bad and that she would draw out the bad

energy. Instead, she made large purchases at department stores. Drawing out the bad energy. Drawing it all out. That's not all. That's not all. Next up, Cousin Peaches. What? Peaches. Cousin Peaches. What?

Peaches. Cousin Peaches. Real name. Second, I don't know, second cousin that was arrested in California for scamming a person for $450,000. Her name is Peaches Marks, apparently. Yeah. Her sister, Anna Marks, took a poor soul for over $250,000 in New York State a few years

ago and fled to California. A warrant was issued a few years ago. She's still on the loose. Oh, my God. This family is fucking wild. They're not paving driveways like our traveler friends used to do or do painting and stuff. They're working their asses off in the sun. So then Adam, by the way, in 2016, his other son, other son adam marks is sentenced to six years in prison

shit after that's the twenty thousand dollar negative aura and uh meditate and deal with the huge angel protecting her yeah so that's what he was supposed to do um he pleaded guilty to one count of theft and all of that shit now 2020, 2020, John Marks Jr., our murderer here, appeals his claim or appeals his conviction, saying that his attorneys failed to properly advise him of a potential plea agreement. And they say, no, you can fuck off. They said, yeah, they said it was fine. They said there absolutely there was absolutely no formal offer made is what the prosecution said. Oh, got it. They're only obliged to bring a formal offer, not a possibility of an offer.

That's different. So they said that if we did receive an offer mid-trial, I think that's something we would have encouraged him to take. The lawyers are like, we think we would have went through with this embarrassment of a trial. I think we would have went with the closing argument of you don't get it, they're gypsies? No, we wouldn't have done that. And we were confident we were going to get you, and we did. Yeah, and we did. We didn't need to offer you anything.

Now, there are a couple other psychic Ks here, by the way. If you go to psychick.com, there is a psychic K that is listed in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. They do chakra balancing, tarot, and all that sort of thing. And then there's also a Psychic K on LinkedIn who's in the U.K., a Psychic K from the U.K., and that's her name on there. Psychic Kingdom. Psychic Kingdom. She's been aware of her essences since the age of 11

and has been performing these readings for many years with the help of her spirit guide, Martha, who's also her late great-grandmother. I give up. I'm out. Oh, my God. I'm out. That's Small Town Murder Express, everybody. That's Estes Park, Colorado.

They found her body in Estes Park, Colorado. That's why we did that there. It's a little bit of a cheat because it's a crazy story, but fuck it. You enjoyed it. What do you care? It's where it is. That's right.

So thank you for joining us for that. Definitely shut up and give me murder.com. April 20th virtual live show just like a regular live show in your house available for two weeks after that april 5th sacramento actually in sacramento yeah april 6th san francisco get your tickets right now they're going fast and uh it's gonna be great you're first on deck don't embarrass yourselves fuck, fuckers. Let's do this. Do that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports this week. In-ring Boxer Debts and, of course, the Mel Lyman cult, East Coast Charles Manson. Get in there and learn all about that. Follow us.

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