Small Town Murder - #490 - Hot Tub Horrors - Hot Springs, Montana

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

This week, in Hot Springs, Montana, a simple night of some cousins, getting together to drink, and enjoy the natural hot tubs turns into a horrific killing of one of the cousins, by another. This seemingly unprovoked, and brutal killing truly puzzles the whole family. Especially, since this murder has an even more unexpected, and brutal cherry on top. It's a very strange man, committing an even stranger murder!!Along the way, we find out that apparently Spanish baroque music is popular in the western mountains, that when someone, who isn't a doctor, tells you to "drop your swim trunks & turn around" you might be in a lot of trouble, and that a terrible murder is never just someone making a big deal out of nothing!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Looking for inspiration? Craving something new? When you visit Audible, there are endless ways to ignite your imagination. With over 750,000 titles, including bestsellers, there's a listen for every type of listener. Discover all the best in audiobooks, podcasts, and originals featuring authentic Canadian voices and celebrity talent like Brendan Fraser and Luke Kirby's latest sci-fi adventure, The Downloaded. A first listen is waiting for you when you start your free trial at audible.ca.

We've all turned to the internet to self-diagnose when some random ailment pops up in our lives. Even though our minds often go to a worst-case scenario when we experience these things, most times it's nothing to worry about. However, for an unlucky few, their weird symptoms are just the start of a terrifying medical mystery. Listen to Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, and Choo Choo. Oh, yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host

I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us all aboard the murder train pulling away from the station We got some wild stuff for you as usual as if you listen often you understand that the Express episodes We pack it in tight. It is ten pounds of lightning in a two pound bag. So we're gonna get to that very quickly. First off, shutupandgivememurder.com tickets for live shows May 31st. Durham, North Carolina, that is up next. Get your tickets right now.

You are on deck. Tickets are almost gone, so get them while they're still there. The next night Nashville sold out. So Durham, you're the one. Get those tickets and get them for the rest of the year because they are going fast. A few shows are sold out already that are way later on. Minneapolis, you can be our biggest show ever. Get your tickets from Minneapolis. Also, Austin, get your tickets. New York, get your tickets. All these places. Kansas City. Oklahoma City. Yeah, I got open.

Yeah. So do your tickets, get them now now shut up and give me murder calm and also there's a bunch of merch there so enjoy that and either you definitely want patreon patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material so much so much you might say what's crime in sports that's our other podcast you should be listening to by the way and you should also listen to your stupid opinions if you want to laugh hysterically for an hour because it's hilarious Patreon though patreon.com slash crime and sports anybody five dollars a month or above you get everything Whole huge back catalogue of bonus stuff that you've never heard before Hundreds of episodes and new ones every other week one crime and sports one small-town murder and you get all of it

You get it all you get it all this week what you're gonna get for crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get all of it. You get it all! You get it all this week, which you're going to get. For crime in sports, we're going to talk about, oh, it's another one of our famous theme park disaster episodes. These are so much fun and they're really crazy and they'll make you think twice about roller coasters. And for small town murder, we are going to talk about some of the craziest execution methods in history. People got real creative with that shit a long time ago.

So we'll find out what's the wildest things that people have thought up to do to other people. That is patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all that. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show where Jimmy will try to pronounce your name correctly and probably fail. But that's okay because he's trying hard. That said, I think it's time everybody. Yeah.

Let's get right into this. I think it's time to clear the lungs. What do you say everybody? And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

Okay. We are going somewhere very pretty this week. We are going to Hot Springs, Montana. Is it nice? Oh it's nice. It's in western Montana, all the way over by Idaho, in the mountains. It's in a valley and it's just all beautiful picturesque mountains around. Really?

I don't think I knew there was a hot springs up there. There is, apparently. We'll talk all about it, and we'll get into the actual hot springs, because some stuff happens there. This is in Northwestern Montana, near the Idaho border. It is about an hour and 20 to Missoula, Montana. That's the closest place.

About four hours to Manhattan, Montana, which was our last Montana episode, episode 4 twenty nine, a clean cut serial killer. And yeah, nice, nice upstanding young man that loved to kill lots of people. Yeah, this area code here is four oh six population here. Six hundred eighteen. So it's a very small little town. Like I said, it's all you've got to go around mountains to get to things. And yeah, median household income here

$19,659 How it's brutal I don't understand it it's difficult that there's a lot of older people here Yeah, I don't understand how I think grand for a household income. That's I mean a lot of Social Security But I mean still yes, I don't know median home $500 a year. Yeah a median home price is 224 thousand one hundred dollars, which is lower than the national average, but if you make 20 grand a year I don't know how you're gonna do that The motto here and it'll make sense when we explain it is this is weird limp in leap out

And that is oh yeah, it's it is, this is weird, limp in, leap out. And that is for the properties of the hot springs. Yes. So there are stories about how, and I'm sure they're apocryphal, but there's stories about how people came in in wheelchairs and left sprinting, running out of the place, cheering and running like they just won a race after they wheeled in with their legs completely limp and not moving for 20 years. Like there's stories about that.

One dip in the hot springs and they were fucking, they won a bronze at the Olympics that year. That's probably like, there's, I don't, I can't think of anything recently, but there's a lot of snake oil that's been sold over time. That's absolutely one of them, that Hot Springs will fix all kinds of ailments because they're everywhere and that was a very common thing. There's one in Arizona that JFK used to go

to. They're in the middle of nowhere too, so you've got to get people to want to go there. Yeah. So you need something to draw them here. So it was founded, this town was founded as the settlements of Pineville and Camus in the 1890s. It was incorporated in 1929. Previously it was known as both Camus and Camus Hot Springs for the Camus plant, or Camus plant, I don't know how you say that, that grows all over the place.

It's part of the asparagus family. This plant. Yeah, I don't know. The town itself started as Pineville and it was right next to Camus or Caymus there. The Hot Springs post office opened in 1913 and all the people went to Hot Springs and not Caymus or Camus. So that shrunk. But 1918 fire destroyed pretty much all of Main Street. Oh, as happens. If you're doing a small town murder drinking game, fire destroys the town is definitely one of the things. Like, that'll happen. That's a frayby though.

That's right in the middle. That's what's gonna happen. And then in 1931, it all burned down again. Yeah, they rebuilt it. And they were like, no, no, dry wood is still fine. It was, and it burned to the ground like no no dry wood is still fine. It was And it burned to the ground again Bricks people we see we've already we've already put fire on it Wow. Yeah, it's my now It's like a forest. It's all burnt down now the soils rich

The sawmill also burnt down and the hospital was closed at that point so That's not a good sign here the I guess after the hot springs mercantile burned to the ground later on in the 80s, 1980s, then cattle prices went down as well and logging was curtailed and everybody of the town just dropped like crazy. It was down to 400 people by 1990. Wow. Yeah. Review of this town. One review of this town because there's not a lot of people here. Four stars. I've lived in this town for most of my life and I would love to see the town cleaned up. There are so many wonderful people here but

the small size of our community makes the drug problems and poverty really stand out. And we'll find out too. This area, there's another town called Ronin that's like 20 minutes away where a lot of these, our participants are from, and Elmo in this area. A lot of these people have serious drug and alcohol problems around here. And I guess if you're making 19 grand a year in your household, that'll make you want to drink. You got to drink about that, right? Yeah. Things to do here, the Montana Baroque Festival. The what?

The Baroque Festival, because that's what you expect. From Europe to paradise. Oh, B-A-R-O-Q-E. Yeah, yeah, you expect Spanish music in the hills of Montana. I thought you were saying, we are Baroque. Baroque music festival. It's free. No Baroque. Make an instrument and try to play it, because we are Baroque music festival. It's free. No, make a, make an instrument and try to play it.

Cause we are baroque shoe box with some strings on it for a good time. You make when you're three. So, um, yeah, that that's what it is pretty much. It's three nights of classical music performed by renowned musicians that those people are probably like, what the hell are we watching? And it's weird because there's a lot of Native American people in the area, but the town is 90% white though.

Really? Yeah, so it's a strange, but there are like reservations around, so it's a strange area. Also, there is the 75th annual Homesteader Days, of course. Oh boy, yeah. It'seader Days, of course. Oh boy, yeah. It's like Frontier Days, same thing.

You got a car show, live music by the 406 band, and also The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Oh. Which was a great movie. Terrific movie. Not bad, yeah. Leoni, terrific, wonderful, but I don't know about the band. They just play that,

over and over again. Marconi songs. Also, the Skunk Alley, the one that happened. I think that was a different movie anyway that I'm whistling. I don't know if that, I think that may have been Sundance Kid. I was doing a different song than you were doing

Yeah, yeah, I'm doing Skunk Alley fun run they're doing yeah. Oh gotta have that. That's all stink afterwards It's well you're gonna stink anyway might as well call it out the kitty parade. I don't mean kitty like cats I mean kids just parade them all out. out. They're looking good them kids parading out there. A horseshoe tournament. A yellow rubber ducky race. Yeah. Okay. Cornhole tournament as that seems pretty pretty omnipresent. And then that Luther is the big loser. That's tough man. Yeah. And then finally something that sounds terrifyingly dangerous an open rodeo Does mean anybody can open? Oh do whatever you want? I think it's anybody can enter which sounds you should have to qualify in some way for that, right?

Does he make sure you're not gonna kill yourself? Otherwise just get tossed off So there are people that that were this. Here is Wade Wonderlick, guy who was driving through the area and saw the festival. We've stopped here once before when we came to Montana and had a good time. Him and his wife Angie were traveling and he said, they seem to have added a lot more than when we came here before and we were having such a good time, we set up the trailer and stayed the night. So, we were just passing through.

Yep and said damn it let's have a hoedown. So there you go. That said let's talk about some murder here. Here we go. Okay let's get into this. We don't have to go back too far here. 2013 this is going to take place in. Oh boy.

So relatively recently let's talk about a man, big guy guy his name is Melvin Mad Plum jr. Mad Plum? M-A-D-P-L-U-M-E. Mad Plume. Yeah but I think that's Mad Plum from what I've seen in all the coverage. Junior and he makes once you make sure that he knows you know it's junior and not senior. Yeah. And Mad Plum is not a nickname. No, no, no. Mad Plum is his nickname. He had no, that's his last name. He has a nickname here. He's 29 years old in 2013. His nickname. This is in the family. He's got a huge family and his nickname is Uncle Bug Bug. Uncle Bug Bug, because he has bugs, I think is the point as we get into him.

From what I found here, in 1991, he has like six brothers and sisters, Melvin, and we know they're poor because I found a court action here where they're talking about Melvin Senior having, can't pay his rent, and he's trying to that like he not get kicked out and there's a court thing It's saying he lost his job and has seven children to support Yikes, so that's what he's coming from Mad plum here. Okay, that's that's senior now in 2003 He has a problem with a family member here. Okay, or a friend, Melvin Jr. now. Melvin Jr., he

has a good friend of his and he rented his friend's Ford Ranger pickup for $20. For the day? I suppose, yeah. It's like a... For a time. Like an Uber without the driver. Just here's the car. Go ahead.

So there was no discussion of driving it, but it was understood that the truck was not insured. They didn't say where he was going with it. He just needed to do some stuff. He's renting out his non-insured truck, which is always a good thing to do. That is balls. That's ballsy. That's the most reckless thing I've ever heard of. Yeah. If you have a non-insured truck, you can't charge for that. No person could get a, you know, pulled over and get arrested for that, for Christ's sake. So the owner had to have the truck back by 7 a.m. the following morning. That was the rule.

He has to go to work, so you got to have the truck back. So Melvin, Uncle Bug Bug, takes the vehicle, and then he said he got word that his grandmother was very ill in the hospital in a town called Browning. So he said he tried to locate his friend to ask permission to keep it a little longer, but he couldn't get ahold of him, so he just went to Browning to see his grandma with this guy's uninsured truck that he needs at 7 a.m. I was expecting that. He's not getting it at 7 a.m.

Not getting it. So I guess he was trying to. He leaves the hospital as this is all his story that we don't know if it's actually what he did. And I don't think it's what he did because he's trying to get back by 7 a.m. and he's driving back after being up all night and he fell asleep at the wheel and crashed the pickup truck and destroyed it beyond all repair. Oh my God.

Totaled his uninsured truck. So his friend got $20 to have his truck destroyed with no recompense whatsoever from that shit. And he's not getting it back at 7am nor any other 7am. Nope. He's standing out front with like his lunch box. Like a thermos in it looking at his watch every couple minutes looking down the road and he hears a car. Is that?

Oh nope that's not it. Okay. And then they go. Maybe we'll just start eating this lunch. Yup. And Melvin hurt himself as well in the crash. He fucked it up pretty good. So for seven months, he kept promising he'd pay for the truck.

Seven months. Until finally, this guy filed charges on him. Yeah. This friend. And I guess it was like a joyriding statute based on a file report here. So he said he paid for the truck that he totaled and no criminal charges should have been filed. That's what he said. I paid $20. That's he was found guilty of violating these laws and the trial court found that the value of the wrecked

vehicle was $2,500 and sentencing was deferred provided he made restitution in that sum by August 11, 2004. They valued it at $2,500. So you know what, like a hundred rentals. It's a bad truck. A hundred rentals you can pay for. It's not a great truck. So that's who we're dealing with.

Melvin is not the most responsible guy in the world, and he's kind of a mess. So he does love the hot springs though in Hot Springs, Montana. Oh yes he does. In mid-May he goes to them to sit and relax. In mid-May 2013 here, we'll talk about here and we'll talk about the hot springs a little bit. Mad Plume and his friend Basu Anais go to his cousin's house. His cousin's name is JB and his cousin is 40 years old.

And he says, hey, would you drive us to Wild Horse, which is the Wild Horse Hot Springs, which is where you go to sit in the hot springs. And everybody's cousins here, by the way. We got three cousins, okay? Now the hot springs, by the way, was developed in 1913, the Wild Horse Hot Springs. A well driller hit 128 degree water. Wow. It went, holy shit. Yeah. So the place now, they say it has private plunges, but little else. Basically has hot tubs that are fed by the hot springs. So it's naturally hot water.

So it was originally known as the Camp Aqua Bath House. That's the wild horse hot springs. But the person who found it was Molly Bartlett in 1912. Just, there was- A gal did it. Well, she wasn't personally drilling, but she's a rich lady who was having people drill. A gal did it. Well she wasn't personally drilling but she was she's a rich lady who was having people drill but yeah she's drilling a well for drinking water and

There's a little little hot to drink really here You're gonna have to buy some ice. She was the daughter of Robert B Smith who was the third governor of Montana What's why I'm saying I don't think she's out digging many deep holes probably no She doesn't have a shovel. No I don't think she's out digging many deep holes probably no Never shovel no So she raised money for a project named the Montana warm water project for crippled children in 1941 to construct a polio treatment center for children named Camp Aqua And that's where this came from this place and then they built a public resort later and in the 80s It was funded by a Montana Renewable Energy Grant.

So that's what's going on. Changed its name to the Wild Horse Hot Springs in the early 1990s when the property changed owners and it shifted from public ownership to private ownership. Somebody bought it from the government here. So the hot springs are fed by the mother dragon geyser. And the mineral content of the water includes bicarbonate, calcium, carbonate, iron, manganese, and magnesium. That's some heavy ass water, man. That's heavy fucking water. Yeah. Also potassium, Silica, Sodium, Sulfate, and then others too. The mineral water goes from about 100 to 128 degrees.

It can't be very clear, right? That's fucking hot too. Apparently it is clear because yeah, it's from down there and the water is pure-ish. Really? It's not like dirty. It doesn't have like... All right. So Melvin here, Melvin Uncle Bug Bug, Mad Plume, and his cousin, who he's asking for

a ride, Melvin's 29, his cousin's 40. The Basu guy, the other cousin, he's a teenager. So we've got a varied, it's like 16, 29, and 40, and they're all hanging out. So Mad Plume explained that he and his teenage cousin have been drinking all day and Really we need a sober driver to take us to the hot springs. We're never gonna make it. We're shit-faced Yeah, which is actually probably a step up in responsibility. Yeah, at least I've destroyed cars when I was yeah That's what I mean. Oh, he was probably up drinking all night based on it. I'm sure no Melvin's an alcoholic So I think that's why he crashed

the truck probably. So this guy really didn't want to go but he said I guess I mean I'd rather have that than you guys fucking do that. Take my car. No it's Mad Plum's car. He shows up with his own car and just says it's like a half hour drive and he's like we can't get there man so will you just drive my car here? And he said alright fine. They all go outside They're farting around for a minute and then they end up taking off and mad plumes like I'll just drive He showed up for the express perp. That's how drunk he is begging for a ride He forgot why he was there to begin with which was to get this guy to drive. He ended up driving

So mad plume kind of really pressures JB here, the cousin, to the 40 year old to have two shots of whiskey. Come on, drink some whiskey. Come on, let's go. Come on, have shots. This is in the car on the way there. It's great whiskey. And they also began drinking beer on the way also. So everyone's drinking beer and whiskey in the car. They arrive at the Wild Horse, the Wild Horse Hot Springs. JB notices that no one's working at the front desk.

There's a front desk. And so yeah, it's like, yeah, you check in and you pay and you go and you have a certain amount of times for soak time and all that kind of shit. And there's, this place is still, we'll talk about it, but there's reviews. And 128 degrees, James, you shouldn't be in that for very long Well, no, it cools to about a hundred and eight once it gets into the into the plunges it says so it's under

Yeah, it's that's what a bath would be No way fuck. Yeah about your body. Are you serious? Your body temperature is 98. So anything lower than that It feels cold. So if it feels more Z is like a hundred and one and that shit's hot. Yeah No, that's that's a hundred and our hundred and four to a hundred and eight. It says here ghouls too So I mean that's hot, but I think that's why you're going there. It's a hot spring people go I suppose yeah, yeah It's not my thing, but it sounds hot. So there they get there. No one's working at the front desk JB said well

I didn't want to go inside because there's no buddy to check in with. We're just going to walk in. And Mad Plume here, Uncle Bug Bug says, he reserved a room. Don't worry about it. Let's go. So three of these drunken people had been to room four. And room four features a private plunge room and a sauna.

Oh, so it's got a room around it. Yes, they built it around what they've pumped it into. So the plunge room houses a sunken cement hot tub filled with water piped in from the hot springs. Awesome. It sounds pretty cool. And the tub is situated against two walls in the corner of a room. So it's in the corner.

Yeah. Okay. There's a high metal railing that wraps around the tubs, two open sides and down seven concrete steps into the tub. It's deep. So it's deep. Yeah, it's very, very fucking deep. So because of the railing,

the steps are the only way in and out of the tub because otherwise you're blocked by the railing. A short ledge along one wall is where the seating is. That's where you can sit over there. Okay. Now in the corner of the plunge room, opposite the tub, there's a metal door with a glass window that leads to a small sauna. So we all have the picture of this in our brains here. His room four will come up often. So JB here, he didn't want to go into the hot tub with Melvin and Basu here Because he's a diabetic who recently had two toes amputated on his foot

And he was self-conscious and also Worried about getting an infection from the hot water, right? Right that it's not chlorinated or anything like that So this is wild water. There could be bacteria in there. Yeah. So he said that he told Melvin that he didn't want to go because it was too early. He's like, it's too early to go in there. I don't want to go in there right now. I've got my thing.

Still got stitches. So Melvin kept saying, get in the water, get in the water and all that kind of thing. Melvin said, I'm a CNA because he used to work as a CNA, which is a healthcare person. Which is useless. Which is a guy, that's not useless. They do stuff. I mean, you want to clean sick people's bedpans because that's what they do. That's what they do. They don't fucking prescribe shit. No, I wouldn't go to them for medical advice. No. It's definitely a handy job to have.

Sure. In this situation, with a guy with a wound, he doesn't know shit. No. No shit about it. But he says, no, no, no, I'm a CNA. No problem. He said the hot water is good for your foot. So hot, strange water, possible back to good for your foot. Don't worry about it.

The warmer it is, the more it breeds, right? Yeah, that's generally how it works. Well, there's a there's a real like a like the golden zone, really, where like life really goes and it's that's right in the middle of it. Right in it. It needs to needs to boil to kill shit. You got to get up to like, yeah, like that's like where they keep like a hollandaise sauce. That's why I'd always get you sick. You know, it's right in

the sweet spot for bacteria to live yeah so they're in this hollandaise pool and uh yeah so he's telling him that and when he finally mad plume just insists you gotta come in here you gotta come in here so finally he says okay fine fuck me i'll come in here Jesus Christ. Then He mad plume begins pestering JB. Let me see your foot. Let me see your foot up close I want to see your foot. Let me take a fucking gander at that bad boy like and he's like no I don't want to show it to you because it's I don't know he's so embarrassing. I don't know. Yeah Let's get those bandages off. Let's really see the wound. Can you see bone? get those bandages off, let's really see the wound. Can you see bone? So finally, this JB is not, he's not real sturdy

in his convictions though, because he didn't wanna go and here he is, he didn't wanna drink and he's drinking. He didn't wanna be in the water. He's in the water. Here he's in the water. Now he doesn't wanna show this guy his foot and here he is saying, I guess here's my foot and lifting it up and letting him show.

So Mad Plum is very insistent yeah Melvin while he's doing this he rubs JB's inner thigh Okay Which JB interprets as interprets as a sexual advance and kind of jumps back a little and pushes them off him Is it number one? It's his cousin and number two, nobody here is like a gay man. Everybody here is purportedly likes women. So it's like, what's going on here? Jesus Christ, how drunk are you? You know what I mean? So at that point, Melvin turns to the teenager, the other cousin, Basu, and tells him to leave the room. Leave the room. This guy, you better hope that limp in leap out motto is fucking right because his toes are gonna burn.

This water makes toes go black. Yeah. You better starfish the shit out of this foot. Wow. Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one this foot. Wow. Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. She was a romance mystery writer who

happens to be married to a chef. But this story didn't end with a happily ever after. When I stepped into the kitchen, I could see that Chef Brophy was on the ground. And I heard somebody say, call 911. As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries. So when suspicion turned to Dan's wife, Nancy, we weren't that surprised.

The first person they look at would be the spouse. We understand that's usually the way they do it. But we began to wonder, had Nancy gotten so wrapped up in her own novels, There are murders in all of the books. that she was playing them out in real life? You can listen to Happily Never After, Dan and Nancy early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good you are a fan of the strange, dark and mysterious. And if that's the case, then I've got some good news. We just launched a brand new strange, dark and mysterious podcast called Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries. And as the name suggests, it's a show about medical mysteries, a genre that many fans have been asking us to dive into for years. And we finally decided to take the plunge and the show is awesome. In this free weekly show, we explore bizarre, unheard of diseases, strange medical mishaps, unexplainable deaths and everything in between. Each story is totally true and totally terrifying. Go

follow Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're a Prime member, you can listen early and ad free on Amazon music So he does basso is he leaves the kid takes off once he's gone Mad plume says to JB Totally apropos of nothing and they've known each other their whole lives and nothing like this has ever come up So it's not like like, you know, oh, Melvin's always trying to fuck everybody. Like this never came up before. So now Melvin is telling JB that you were leading me on. What's going on? JB is like, what the fuck are you talking about? You've been flirting with me all night? You've been flirting with me since 1987. Like what? So, okay. JB's like, you're out of your fucking mind, bro. Like you're you're out of your mind

No, we're none of what are you talking about? None of these things. I'm leaving now So he gets up and tries to leave but he's a combination of The fact that he's been drinking for three hours and the fact that it's really really fucking hot in there And the fact that he just had foot surgery Makes him all woozy on his feet. So he's not able to like really take off. He's just kind of stumbling around Mad plume here Melvin blocks the steps out of the hot tub and pushes JB back into the water multiple times Oh my god, which is terrifying if number one this guy's he's a pretty big guy Melvin Which is terrifying if number one this guy's he's a pretty big guy Melvin a and he's very drunk and also this guy doesn't Have like he's missing. He just had toes removed. So he's not at his most physically Viral yes, he's not fighting somebody off. He's not in a fucking championship boxing match shape

He's also 40 and yeah 40 and just had surgery is no good either. Not at all No, it's it's it's takes longer to recover. So right So 40 and 40 and just had surgery is no good either. Not at all. No, it takes longer to recover. So eventually after this back and forth, this happened like multiple times. He tries to get up, he pushes him back in the water. Mad Plume just comes right out and says it and says, turn around and drop your trunks. Oh God. Like we're at the doctor now. Like, I am a CNA remember. I'm going to do the rectal

examination. So his cousin said, why? Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious. Why? I think you need to say what he wants. Yeah. And Mad Plume said, you know what I mean. He just found out about this, huh? Yeah. That's so then he tries to get out a couple more times Yeah, and he said the second time he pushed him back in the water after the drop your trunks remark His cousin here JB said the second time I was getting kind of scared. He wanted to rape me He's like prison gay prison gay. Yeah, he gets jacked up and he wants to fucking dominate people has nothing to do with What hole they have, I don't think. You know what I mean?

Because otherwise, he's with women sometimes, and there's not a... Wow. He doesn't like, you know... And like I said, they've known him his whole life. This has never come up before. So... Yeah, this is...

If he's not gay, even if we're not finding... This is absolutely the worst way to find out your cousin has homosexual proclivities at all. Well,, I mean I guess there's no, yeah, unless, otherwise you wouldn't care at all. Right. Like you know what I'm saying, like even people who don't really like gay people will say like, long as they're not trying to fuck me, I don't care, you know what I mean? Like he's literally trying to fuck him so whether he's gay or not is not the concern. The concern me. I don't care. You know what I mean? Like he's literally trying to fuck him so whether he's gay or not is not the concern the concern is I don't want you to fuck me He wants to rape me. Yeah, that's that's exactly what it is there terrible way to find out

He wants to rape me. I think is the perfect way to put it so eventually JB pushes past him and says this is bomb getting the fuck out of here. Fuck you puts his shoes on and takes off Okay, so I'm getting the fuck out of here fuck you puts his shoes on and takes off okay so I'm getting the fuck out of here walks out of the room got out now he finds JB finds the other of the younger cousin Basu outside and tells him what happened he said this fucking guy was she told me to drop my fucking drawers and turn around like this is crazy he said don't be alone with him you know I just be careful but the problem is they have no there's

no cell service in this area at all so their phones are completely dead and they have no other they have no way to get out of here except for his car his car he's the one who drove them there so they're like fuck this is this is terrible worst we got to get in this car mad plume eventually comes out and offers to drive them home and they're like, we gotta take it, there's nothing else to, what else are we gonna do? Not only is he shit faced, I don't know what's scarier, the fact that he's been drinking whiskey all day or the fact that he just tried to have sex with me in the, forcible sex with

me in the fucking sauna. So he drove me all the way to the woods for this. Yeah, this is scary. So the ride began with Mad Plume speeding toward the highway. He was drifting from side to side across the dirt road, leading away from the wild horse, like doing one of those. Yeah, sliding it.

Once they got to the highway, instead of turning left toward JB's house, Mad Plume turned right toward Hot Springs, the town. So Mad Plume then sped past a cutoff road to Ronan, which got them where they wanted to go to. So JB started getting mad and said, pull over, god damn it, you fucking idiot. Pull over right fucking now.

I'm getting out of this god damn car. You're driving like an asshole, you're not going where we need to go. So Mad Plume stopped and JB gets out and starts walking. There's a convenience store a few miles down the road. He starts heading toward it. So About 20 minutes and Mad Plume just drove off So about 20 minutes later Mad Plume comes back again With yeah, I don't know if the younger cousin was like dude. He just had two toes removed. He can't walk

This is crazy. The guy's on eight toes out there. So he pulls up and he says, come on, get back in. I swear I'll drive you home. It's all fine. Everything's fine. He gets back in the car, starts driving crazy again all over the road, but eventually takes JB back to his house. He's had quite the harrowing experience. What a day.

What a fucking day that's been, right? Oh boy. So May 25th,th 2013 about two weeks later Bad Plume wants to go back to the hot springs again okay. Okay. He wants to go again he purchases two bottles of rum to for the day to go there and heads over to his cousin's mother's house so I guess that'd be his aunt's house, for a late breakfast this day. His cousin is Lawrence Kenmill, K-E-N-M-I-L-L-E.

His nickname, everybody calls him La. Like La, I guess. La, like Larry Lawrence. La, so a lot of Larry's. Because Larry's real hard. Yeah, it's hard to get that second fucking syllable out. Like Susie calls Larry David on fucking curb your enthusiasm. La.

So he's 27, Lawrence Kenmill here. He's married to a woman named Terry and has four kids. That's a lot for 27. It sure is. Yeah. A wife named Terry and four kids is a lot for a 27 year old. That's at least a 44 year old. It's also fascinating that all of these cousins and nobody has the same name. No, no, no. They're all, well, I got a lot of cousins with different names. It's a lot of,

I mean, it could be a lot of women that were married. I mean, a guy has a bunch of daughters, they are all gonna, all the cousins have the same names. They get married off, they make a bunch of cousins as well. Yeah, that's probably what happened. But I'll bet it's a bunch of cousins as well. That's probably what happened here. But I'll bet it's a lot of divorce too that did this. So I also hear Lawrence is part of the Elmo based Chief Cliff drum group and they said he's a great singer. Everybody says he's a real great singer. He sings for the drum group and all that kind of shit.

So at the time, Lawrence is staying at his mother's house where Melvin has come to eat breakfast. So Mad Plume talks to them, eats breakfast, goes around, farts around in the neighborhood, talks to people, there's friends and family that he knows in this neighborhood, he talks to everybody, and he and Lawrence at that time, Lawrence, another cousin named Eustah Aeneas, Eustah we'll call

him here, and his 16 year old, oh no, he's the 16 year old brother of the other guy. Okay, this is very confusing. So Mad Plume Lawrence, I have gone over this a hundred times today, I was still confused on the cousins because it's a family tree that I really could use a picture, a visual would help me out a lot here. Mad Plume, Lawrence, his cousin Eusta, there you go, Eusta is 16 by the way. And he's the younger brother of the other one that was up there with them last time. Exactly. He's the younger brother of that guy. So they all go to the wild horse again. They're going to the wild horse hot springs according to the employees

They showed up the three of them about three o'clock and already had been drinking rum Hammered hammered and mad plume has more rum with him. So of course he does the employees noticed that Lawrence Ken Mill was boisterous at first, but as the day went on, he became more shit-faced and more quiet. He's the type that the jibous takes him down. It doesn't make him go up. So that's it. He's 16, man. No, Lawrence is not 16. Oh, he's a 29-year-old. Yes. Yeah, Lawrence is 27. Eustah. Eustah is a 16-year-old. Eustah is a 16-year-old. But Lawrence is the one, yeah, he starts coming down and that sort of shit. So yeah, later in the afternoon,

an employee noticed that Lawrence's speech was slurred and he was leaning on walls for support you know when you ask people to leave an establishment when they're like that they're waiting for him to throw up on himself so they can ask him to leave they said that mad plume seemed normal didn't see that shit-faced. Mad Plume is an alcoholic too is the other thing. He's one of those guys, I think he's a functional alcoholic. I think he can be drinking and you don't notice.

So around 5 p.m. they make their way to room 4 again. Same room. Same room here. So Mad Plume and Lawrence put on swim trunks and get into the hot tub, but Eusta, maybe it's because he heard what happened to his brother. Yeah, he knows. He said he was feeling sick

and he's gonna wait in the lobby. Okay. I'm feeling like I don't feel like getting raped by my cousin, so I'm gonna wait in the lobby. Also feeling like I'm not, I'm not feeling like I wanna be asked to leave a room so that my other cousin can be Right by my other cousin that all this cousin raping is really too much for me

So over the course of the evening though used to made several trips back to room for to ask The two mad plume and Lawrence if they're ready to go yet because he's fucking bored He's just sitting in a lobby, and there's no cell phone service even so he can't even you know You can't even play it was a 2013 came and play Angry Birds like he's got nothing So the second time used to checked in on him He said Lawrence seemed barely awake and his eyes were closed and his head was down but above the water So he's just shit on the chest Had too much to drink.

Yeah, yeah. So used to was like, is he all right? And he had mad plumes like, he's fine. He's just shit faced. It's all good. And he said, we'll be done soon. You know, we'll see you in a minute. So, okay.

Back in the lobby, Eusta tells one of the employees of the wild horse about Lawrence's condition. Like, man, my cousin's fucked up in there. He's like passed out with his head down the employee said I'll check on him so then Eustah went looking for something to eat and he like if they have a machine a snack machine or something so he passed his room four along the way he glanced through the window and saw mad plum hunched over as if he was carrying

something but he didn't didn't concern him. He didn't enter the room to see what was going on. He just continued down the hall there. Yeah. So the final time he used to went back to the room, he saw Lawrence sitting naked next to Mad Plum in the hot tub. He said that he was naked. He saw.

Okay. He could tell. Yeah, he could tell. So he could see his dick bobbing above the water. I guess so Mad plum said no, we're all right. Everything's still fine. It's all good, but used to said I don't know I worried a little bit mainly because the water around Lawrence seemed to be tinted red a bit You know with blood a little bit of concern there Yeah You know with blood a little bit of concern there Yeah He also saw the glass in the door to the sauna was broken and Shards of glass on the floor appeared to have blood on them and be speckled with blood. Oh boy

Mad Mad plume just says Lawrence slipped and fell earlier, but he's fine. He's just he said he's just faking being asleep, too He's not even asleep. Actually we're talking and he's just being a dick. He said he's quote, quote, messing around and playing possum. Just playing possum. Just pretending to be passed out. What's the joke here? You know what I mean? So he said, yeah, there's no problem.

There's no problem. Now he said at that point, Mad Plume said, yeah, he's talking right now, he's talking to me. The kid didn't hear him talk, but he's like, all right, I guess if he's fine, he's fine. Then he went back to the lobby again, Eusta, and told one of the employees, have you checked on them? Yeah, you should really check on them.

Check on my cousin. And so he said, all right, fine. So Derek Smith is working at the Wild Horse, him and his father, Dave Smith. Derek goes and checks on Lawrence, enters the plunge room and asked if they needed anything. Okay, you guys need anything? You know, one of those. Derek noticed that Lawrence was in the corner of the hot tub leaning forward with his face in the water while Mad Plum sat next to him patting him

on the back. He said, his face is in the water. Yeah. And he said, no, we're good, we don't need anything. And Derek just went, okay, and left. Didn't say, is that guy okay? Wait 20 seconds to see if he comes up. How's that? Like after a while, he needs to breathe.

I mean, beat around the bush a little. You sure you don't need towels or like? Anything, yeah. I got coffee in there. I could bring some coffee I want some coffee, you know what I got a bottle of Captain Morgan under my fucking What do you think of that? You know something if you don't like that? I got bottled water though Yeah, people sit in this water and they need a water They want another water so at some point in the afternoon is dad Dave reported hearing glass breaking in the direction of room 4 as well as a noise that he described as the sounds of men roughhousing and laughing.

So one of the owners of the wild horse then walked by the room to see if the front window was broken in that room, but didn't go inside the room to see if glass was broken elsewhere. It was like, okay, this window's intact, fine. They didn't break anything. So then that was the first and the second time after they noticed blood on the broken glass, that's Derek goes back again here. And during that check-in, he said, he asked Mad Plume, or Mad Plume asked him if he would help pull Lawrence out of the tub. He's real fucked up. Can you help me pull him out? So Derek

said that the water in the tub was murky as if someone had vomited in it. That's what he said. It looked like that. So it had some shit in it there. Mad Plume pushed Lawrence to a spot where Derek and Eustace could reach over the tub's railing and help pull him out. As they were moving him, Mad Plume's grip slipped and Lawrence's face sank under the water, but he didn't like, he just limply went under the water. He didn't like, oh, pop up not being able to breathe or anything, which is weird. So after they moved Lawrence from the tub, Derek, the employee, notices bruising on Lawrence's shins. So Derek went back to the lobby to get his father.

Lawrence is laying unresponsive and blood began to pool under the back of his head as he's shins. So Derek went back to the lobby to get his father. Lawrence is laying unresponsive and blood began to pool under the back of his head as he's laying there. So now they're like, holy shit. So now Mad Plume used to Derek and Dave are trying to figure out what to do. They're sitting around looking at this person bleeding out on a floor going, what do we do? Is it not 911 at the front desk? No, well, they end up, at first, they decided to try to put him in Mad Plume's car to drive him to the hospital. So this is how much time is wasting.

They pick him up, they bring him outside. They try to put him in the car, but his legs are, his knees are already too stiff to bend. And he's too fucking tall to fit in the back seat unless he's bent up and he's lay down rigoring already He's rigoring so they pull him out of the car and then they call 9-1-1 They didn't call 9-1-1 ahead of time say we're on our way Nothing nothing and used to start at CPR on a man who's too stiff to move already. He's dead Yeah, so the ambulance arrives and takes him to the hospital where he arrives dead Yeah here in nearby Plains mad plume drives away with Eusta to quote follow the ambulance

He said but when they arrived in Plains mad plume drove past the hospital and into a wooded area Yeah drove past the hospital and into a wooded area. Yeah, I'm not going to the hospital. He drove into the woods and they said he sped up like as soon as he saw the hospital he gunned it past the hospital and into the woods instead. He said he was driving 90 miles an hour at one point. Very normal. When they passed a police officer who had another car pulled over on the side of the road. Mm-hmm.

Okay, so as they approach Thompson Falls, Eustace says, he literally says, I will grab the steering wheel and crash this fucking car if you don't turn it around. Yeah. Fucking, we're going back there. That's crazy, we gotta see if our cousin's dead. Like, this is nuts. So Mad Plume finally turns the car around,

but on the way back to Plains, the officer they passed earlier catches up to them, goes, oh, you're the assholes we saw? Perfect, thanks for turning around. Yeah, seemed to rip in a minute ago. Pulls them over and arrests Mad Plume for reckless driving. Yeah. So, they bring him in.

Not DUI? Well, that probably too, I'm sure. But I mean, it was the driving, you were going to jail anyway. Oh, you're drunk too, stupid. That would explain it. So, Lawrence arrives at the hospital, and he's pronounced dead when they get there, obviously.

So he is sent for an examination, post-mortem here. They find in the examination, upon examining Ken Meehl's body, the medical examiner noted that Lawrence had multiple contusions to both the front and back of his head, as well as abrasions on his face and nose. Also a large deep gash on his right arm extending from the elbow to the wrist and multiple bruises on the front of both shins. Okay, he said that the findings say that this wasn't consistent with a single fall. This is a lot of falls if it's a fall because it doesn't look like that they said there's blunt force injuries to the head abdomen and extremities and

Hyper inflated lungs fluid in the sinus and froth in the airways. So he drowned They said that he was drowned at the the finding is that he was drowned violently He wasn't it wasn't an accident somebody fucking drowned him is that he was drowned violently. He wasn't it wasn't an accident. Somebody fucking drowned him. Weird thing here. The also they find they they note anal dilation. Yep. rectal bruising and two internal lacerations consistent with being forcibly penetrated. Wow. As well. Okay. Do you hold him under while I mean, dude, we don't know here. So anything's possible. Anything's possible. This guy's clearly a little fuck. It's, you know, bonjour here. He's gone off the deep end. So bad man, bad guy. Um, so they already have Melvin in

jail. So they bring them in, have a chit chat with them here let's see what you got so he denied having any sexual interest in Lawrence at all he's that never happened he said because that's what they asked him at first you guys have any kind of like you know sexual relationship and he said oh god no you know we both like women he's married with four kids we talking about he also was surprised that his cousin was dead he said he was in, he didn't notice that. He never noticed. He said, quote, I'm completely in shock. That's what Mad Plume said to the cop.

I didn't know anything was wrong. I didn't know anything was wrong with him. Ah, you had to get him out, man. Blood pouring out, not breathing, someone doing CPR while an ambulance screeches up, had no idea anything was the matter. Yep, he said, I didn't know anything was wrong with him. And then he said, quote, the sad thing is I ain't going to be able to be at his services or anything.

No, you're not. That's what he said. That's the sad thing. I ain't going to be able to go to his services or anything because I'm in jail here for the stupid thing. I got arrested for reckless driving. Yeah, so I'm stuck here. Welcome to the small town of Chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran,

Shannouk is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondry+. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good you are a fan of the Strange, Dark and Mysterious. And if that's the case, then I've got some good news. We just launched a brand new Strange, Dark and Mysterious podcast called Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries.

And as the name suggests, it's a show about medical mysteries, a genre that many fans have been asking us to dive into for years. And we finally decided to take the plunge and the show is awesome. In this free weekly show, we explore bizarre, unheard of diseases, strange medical mishaps, unexplainable deaths, and everything in between. Each story is totally true and totally terrifying.

Go follow Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts and if you're a Prime member, you can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. So they said, well, what happened? How did he get in this condition? Because he was with you and you were the only person with him. And he said, quote, I honestly blacked out. He said, I don't remember everything. I'm very confused about what I remember. I don't even know what I remember.

That's how little I remember. Yeah. Some of the memories, I don't even know what I remember. That's how little I remember. Yeah Some of the memories I don't even know what they are. Yeah, one of the questions He said I don't know about that. I black out when I'm really drunk I'm one of those alcoholics who will drink till I black out and The scary part is a lot of times you can't even tell those fucking people are drunk Yeah, you can't even tell those fucking people are drunk. You can't even tell, they seem fine. And there was, I was watching on patrol and this lady had went before her turn,

she turned into a fucking ravine instead. She took that as the turn. And her car was like sitting up and she was this like 55 year old lady who lived right, I mean she lived 100 yards from where this fucking happened. And she's like, oh gosh, geez, that's terrible She kept saying oh geez. Oh my gosh. Oh, no, I thought I did this

She said I just I guess I wasn't paying attention I come here, you know gun this road a million times I was at the Home Depot and I went here turns out her blood alcohol was three or point three four five or some shit Which most people people will die with that much alcohol. Yeah, that's dangerous. You couldn't even tell, she was fucking drunk. They didn't, they only did the test because they were like, we have to because she crashed, so something must be wrong.

But they didn't even notice that she was drunk, she didn't smell of alcohol, nothing. But she'd been drinking all day. She's perfected it. Yeah, that's. She got drinks to have vodka for the no smell. Yep, that's an alcoholic, Just you can't even see it So I mean it was like fucking seven o'clock at night to like wherever it was

It was crazy. My uncle got one at two in the afternoon making a right hand turn. He just You know where it is. It's a 24 string cactus. You just didn't turn Hard enough and he fucking hit the car turning left. Oh god Yeah, and then he got out of the car and they and they they made the cops breathless They're like you don't smell that on him and then they breathless him and it was Oh god yeah. And then he got out of the car and they and they they made the cops breathalyze they're like you don't smell that on him and then they breathalyze him and it was oh yeah whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa Plume that your cousin has injuries indicating he'd been hit on the head not once, not twice, not three times, but four to five times. And not all at the same time either over a period of longer times. A wrap now? Some shit happening?

A wrap now? He said, I don't know where that came from, even though I was the only other person in the room. He said, well, the medical examiner found rectal bruising and lacerations on him. And Mad Plume's response was, quote, that surprises me. I didn't even know he was gay. I didn't see him stick anything up his ass. Weird.

Yeah, no idea. He said, I had nothing to do with that. So that's pretty fucking fine. I had nothing to do with that at all. He had total surprise. He goes, I don't know what you're talking about. He said he's never engaged in any type of quote, homosexual activity, he said,

but he couldn't remember whether he made a pass at a different male at the Hot Springs the weekend before. Because they said, well, your cousin says that you made a pass at him the weekend before. And he says, I don't remember that. That's crazy. He says, but I do black out when I get drunk. don't remember that. That's crazy. He says, but I because I do blackout when I get drunk. That's the thing. That's one thing. So they

asked him, well, would you consent to an oral swab for a DNA test? So we'll just get this over with quick. And he said that I feel like you're trying to railroad me. I'm not doing this anymore. I want a lawyer. That was that. End of the interview. You're all trying to railroad me. You want a DNA swab. So they charge him with deliberate homicide and sexual intercourse without consent, but later amended the charges to a single count of deliberate homicide under the felony murder rule with sexual intercourse without consent as the predicate offense. So wrapped up in one rather than two separate charges. It's kind of wrapped up in one different states, different laws. So before trial, he wants to have or his lawyers want to have excluded the evidence of the prior weekends cousin incident. Let's not talk about that one. Let's not do that. Generally,

prior bad acts are barred from being entered into a trial, but the state intends to use the evidence to show Mad Plum's motive, opportunity, intent, preparation and plan, all of which are uses specifically allowed by Rule 404, which is the law that allows it. That's how this is all done. Also, his MO. It's everything. I mean, if it's an exact replica of what he did here and shows he had a plan the weekend before that didn't work out, he refined it. That's what it looks like. So they allow all of this evidence in as evidence of proof of motive,

opportunity, intent, preparation and plan, all that shit, which is all the things that you need. So in the trial, by the way, Lawrence's family, which is also his family, but members of Clutter close to Lawrence, all wore the same shirt which had a smiling Lawrence on his graduation day from to Eagle River High School in Pablo more than nine years ago. And it says in loving memory and it says law below it. If you kill someone and the family all shows up to court wearing the same special T-shirt, you're fucked. You are so fucked.

You are so fucked. You're always going away forever when that happens. You see that, oh shit, they made T-shirts. Fuck me, they're marketing. They got a marketing campaign. I'm screwed, I got nothing. So his cousin testifies, the one where they tried to go after there. And he on cross examination, they say they get him on the fact that they

said that they never specifically asked you to have sex, right? He didn't say I'm going to fuck you. He didn't say we're going to have sex now. He didn't say any of that, right? He said, turn around and drop your trunks. Well, the guy said, quote, aside from the part where he told me to turn around and pull my pants down, no, he never touched my genitals. That's what he said. Aside from the demand for rape, he didn't. So in the closing arguments here, the prosecutor, the state asserts that the state really kind of plays on the sexual nature of the thing, which is gonna be funky later on. He said that the state asserted that wanting to hide

his sexual feelings toward both of his cousins, the one he went after first, and Lawrence, Mad Plume brought the other two along, Eusta and Basu, in the different times, to make the other two feel comfortable. Look, it's not just us. Look, there's children here. Yeah.

Now, Mad Plume says, his lawyers say that the state's reasoning was designed to elicit fears about homosexual men physically assaulting straight men. Mad Plume also, which isn't a big fear, by the way, for coming from two straight guys, how afraid of that are you very little very little afraid of that yeah unless i go to prison i'm very little afraid of that yeah otherwise i feel like i can hold my own fine if you're trying to fuck me you know what i mean so adult yeah yeah isn't it that's what i mean as a full-grown as a 40 something year old man with a beard but i can fend fend it off. Yeah. Hey, motherfucker, what's up? He said, when you start to listen to things, but yeah, he's trying to make it sound like the prosecution is saying like, this is a, you're walking down the street, everyone's

covering their butthole, everybody. You never know when it's going to happen. He said, when you start to listen to JB's story and you look at what happened to Lawrence in that room, there's really simple, logical deduction here that helps you conclude beyond a reasonable doubt what happened. Lawrence wasn't as lucky as JB. Yeah. Yeah, that's the way it is. Verdict comes in and they find him guilty of murder and deliberate murder under the

felony rule. So not good for him here. He could get the death penalty. He could get life without parole or life with you know So the separate charge of the sexual intercourse without consent was dropped like I said And it was wrapped up into the other one and that's what we have now So it's a felony it's a real bad felony murder at this point not aggravated murder. Yeah Sentencing comes around and both sides of the family are gonna speak

The ones who support Uncle Bug Bug there, Melvin, it is bonkers what they say in court, man. What are they going to say? It's crazy. So here's Lawrence's family. This is one of his cousins, I believe. This was a horrendous crime and a calculated crime that has devastated two families and you're entirely responsible for it. They say there are days I can't even get up, it hurts so much. That's Lawrence's mother says that. Describes what it's like to talk about the father's children have lost their father,

a wife lost a husband, I lost my kid. One of her granddaughters she said is having a hard time in school, this is one of his children, having a hard time in school, this is one of his children, having a hard time in school and quote, she's fighting, fighting every day because she doesn't understand where her dad is. She's hurting so bad she's torturing everybody. Lashing out. So we need him out because of it. No, no, no. They're saying you've done this motherfucker. This is Larry's kids are having a hard time. Another granddaughter has completely just shut down

She said she's trying to be an adult, but she's not she's just a little girl. Yeah, these kids can't handle this The other another grandmother of his kids his wife's mother Said that they don't understand it because all the kids around here his kids included love you You're always nice to them. They call you Uncle Bug Bug for fuck's sake. Like, you have a nickname. That's how much the kids like you. He said they don't understand

because you were their uncle. They love you and they're scared. You've destroyed my whole family, she said. That's the thing there. This guy comes over all the time. They know each other. It's crazy. It's not like he hadn't seen Lawrence in 10 years and then he showed up going, let's go to the hot tubs. Like, he's all comes over all the time they know each other hasn't like crazy it's not like he hadn't seen Lawrence in 10 years and then he showed

up going let's go to the hot tubs like he's all hanging out all the time he came over to eat breakfast because his mother made him breakfast so wow they said one of the kids got diagnosed with PTSD she said the hurt will go on for years and years here also says this is wow you took him to the hot springs you raped him you left him face down in the hot water and before that you beat him when I asked the undertaker he said Lawrence looked like he'd been in a car wreck you must have taken your anger for everybody out on that young man and said then after he was dead you satisfied your own selfish needs by raping him you hurt a lot of people and the only reason was to satisfy

your own perverted sexual desires. I hope they give you the longest sentence they have. All of it. So yeah, yeah, by the way, it was, I think it was post-mortem, the rape. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

So you're like, oh, God Jesus, he beat him up real bad. Yeah, I don't know if he thought he was unconscious or what, but yeah, so he like oh god Jesus he beat him up real bad. Yeah, I thought he was unconscious or what yeah, so He was definitely not conscious when it was going on They don't think good grief his widow gets on the stand Lawrence's widow and says she's no longer able to parent her children Because she's too scared of everything now. She said the world she said I can't hate you Melvin I'll never hate you, but I'm really confused. I lost myself, I lost my family, I lost my best friend.

I feel like I'm six feet under too. He's destroyed the whole family. And it's even worse, because it's not some stranger where you're like, well, yeah, that's the world. It's dangerous. Like, we fucking know you, and you've been cool always. Yeah. So when they asked, the judge asked the widow

what sentence, or the county attorney asked the widow, what sentence do you think would be appropriate? And she said, I just want him to be gone forever, just like Lawrence. That was the response. Now, Melvin's sister and mother come out, and they say some way different shit, pleading for him. Okay, his mother asked the judge to hand down a sentence

that would offer him the opportunity to get out of prison one day. And the sister, Regina, describes her brother as loyal, caring, loving, and giving, and the best uncle. Well, I think you can, if he has a mug that says world's greatest uncle, you can take that away now, I think. He can turn that in.

Yeah, I think that's not going to work. Then she says this, quote, he's never done anything toward anybody. I feel this whole thing is a big betrayal on me and my family. They pointing to Lawrence's family with their t-shirts on have never accepted us because we are black feet. That's all we've ever been to them. What is that? It's a tribe. Yeah. Blackfeet tribe. They're yeah native. They're from different tribes. I guess in this family it's an inner inner tribal family or whatever. So they're saying how dare you fucking yeah that's what it is. So he then she then says he meant a lot

to all of them Elmo people talking about Melvin here She's Melvin's mother comes on now and says a life sentence without parole would be too harsh for him She said he meant a lot to all them Elmo people now. They're making a little pebble into a big mountain He fucking raped and killed his cousin. What are you talking about? That's not a little pebble This is a fucking mountain lady. What are you talking about a's not a little pebble this is a fucking mountain lady what are you talking about a giant one this is a problem yeah this isn't like they got in a fight and he punched him in the mouth and they're trying to put him in jail for 20 years for assault that's a pebble made into a mountain this is a fee fucking he's dead he's dead and he may have raped him

probably raped him after he was dead it's crazy so your turn now they're making a little pebble into a big mountain. He's a human being. Like, we all make mistakes. This is a big one though. He treated them good, all of them. Now he's the worst person in the world? Yes! Once you rape and kill somebody, guess what?

Your status is greatly diminished. Ask O.J. what it's like when people think you're a murderer. His life wasn't the same as it was before that trial. I'll tell you that right now. He didn't even rape anybody that we know. He didn't even rape Ron Goldman when he was finished with him. That would have been even crazier. People would have really been like, fuck the fuck, OJ.

What kind of guy are you? Then she goes on to say, when this is over, who else are they going to pick on? Okay. Other murderers, hopefully. What are you talking about? And rapists, yeah. And rapists, that too. Wow.

Then her, wow, Jolene Madplum, another sister said that, oh no, Jolene's the mother, she went on to say that kind of, he's not that kind of person being a psycho. He said that Lawrence's family is quote, making a big show out of everything. You know, the murder trial for their dead son, making a big fucking deal out of it. A big show. And says they never looked at Melvin as a human being ever. And they all, wow, that's fucking wild. So meanwhile meanwhile Lawrence's family all comes up and says that this is bullshit What they all said they had taken him in after his parents kicked him out Their family has been nothing but nice to Lawrence the morning of the murder

He went over to eat breakfast and have Lawrence's mother make him breakfast So they didn't treat him like shit and it's bullshit. Like he's just a murderer and fuck him. So Prosecutor requests life without parole. That's his request to the judge He said his prospects for rehabilitation are minimal at best and you have a family that does not want to have to confront this defendant Again, he seems to enjoy trying to dominate and hurt other males. That's the perfect way to put it. There you go Yeah, yeah, it's clear that he accepts no responsibility. He's shown absolutely no remorse today, the same as he showed at his trial.

The defense says, come on, that's all you can say really. Come on. I mean. He's trying. He's trying. His defense attorney says, I think it's part of the court's many duties

to temper the anger or emotion that comes from anybody and the desire for retribution and the offer and offer the opportunity for someone to come back out and be part of our society. And she added that he set out strict instructions, by the way, for that the lawyer said, I gave strict instructions to Melvin on how to behave in court. So they said, if there's a sense he's not remorseful, put that on me. I told him to be stoic. Don't act like it hurts you. Melvin said, quote, I'm simply, I'll simply say my heart is as broken as the Ken Mills family. I doubt that. He says, I don't believe a life sentence is anywhere near reasonable. What do you think it should be then?

More? He is sentenced to use, may fuck off, life without parole. No parole and he has to pay $33,634.29 in public defender fees as well. Oh shit, really? Yeah, that was that. This is based on that for a couple years ago he got some tribal payments and so they that he for a couple years ago. He got some

Tribal payments and so they think he has an income. Oh Yeah, so he has if you have an income then or any money then you have to pay it back Yeah He appeals arguing that not only the fees number one the fees were were imposed on him Shouldn't be because he has no way to make the money back and also that they let in the prior act of the cousin the week before Shouldn't be because he has no way to make the money back and also that they let in the prior act of the cousin the week before Okay, and they say no, that's all fine. And even the the state's closing argument is That they said the court Supreme Court says the argument did did not insinuate that homosexual men are predisposed to sexually assaulting

Straight men rather they used it as a it was just as what he tried to do the week before. Just, he likes to fuck his cousins. Right. Homosexual men are not pro, don't tend to do that. But this guy does. This guy, whatever he is, does it. So now he's in prison now. His appeal is denied. So life without parole.

The Hot Springs, they found out the Hot Springs had been operating essentially unlicensed since about 2009. And in 2019, a woman is, she dies in the fucking, in one of the Hot Springs. So 2019 or 2020 that is. In 2019, there's a big article about how they're totally redoing the place. It's going to be wonderful. The owners are saying the pool in which Ken Mill died has been all sealed up. They said, yeah, they said it was all torn down and exposed the soakers to rolling hills

and nighttime canvases. Now they're like kind of outside, like intent sort of things. And yeah, so he says, we want to continue to provide the limp in leap out motto. That's something we want to continue an immersive healing experience. That's what he says. So he said, we really want to reach out to people who need a place like wild horse. 2020, a woman named Ann or Carrie Ann Allison, who was 39 years old from Polson, she apparently needed the hot springs, but she ends up being she's dead in the in one of the springs here. The autopsy they said that they don't know if it was

still like undetermined whether it was homicide or just a natural death. They arrested a guy, but he was right later released without charges. But what they did find out as the campground and pools have been conducting business in violation of the health of a health department order shutting them down for years. So yeah, not great. So the wild horse, it was sent a notice to immediately cease operations on September 16th, 2020 by the county health department because it was operating an unlicensed facility more than two years after ownership was first notified, it was out of compliance. The notice of violation indicated the facility has not been licensed by the state of Montana since 2009. Not good.

Yes, so they talk about this death, the other death, also the owner, Dennis David Larson, was arrested and charged with negligent arson after he set a wood pile on fire, allegedly that spread out of control and destroyed hundreds of feet of tire bale fence along with trailers and a vehicle on an adjacent property. Oh, somebody else's shit too? Somebody else's shit, yeah.

So they said they called and they said a man who answered the phone on the facility that year said the business was Not currently accepting reservations But should be up and running by the weekend the next day a recorded message said that the hort that it was closed for repairs And upgrades and try back in two weeks It's currently you can go there currently. It's on Google. There's a bunch of reviews for it We're gonna put on your stupid opinions. Oh, great. There you go, there's a lot of green weird slime going on and shit like that.

Yeah, it's gotta be. There you go, there's Hot Springs. Wow. By the way, look this up if you want, there's another murder I believe in this family because it's a mad plume from the same town, I think it's Melvin's cousin named Catherine with a C, mad plume.

She was murdered in 2005 in a horrible triple murder. That was fucking what is going on? I don't know what's going on up there, but that's another it was between these two cases And I'm like these people are related from the same fucking town. This is crazy. So anyway there you go. That's hot Springs, Montana Holy shit, if you like the show tell the world get on whatever app you're on, and just say whatever you want, we don't care. Tell us, do you prefer peanut butter and marshmallow or peanut butter and jelly? There you go, which one? Which one, you a fluffernutter or are we going jelly?

Where are we going with that? Doesn't matter. So do that also. Shutupandgivemurder.com. Tickets for live shows, baby, that's right. We are, May 31st is our next show in Durham North Carolina still a few tickets left for that Nashville the next night no tickets left for that. That bad boy has been sold out for a long time so get in there. Minnesota Minneapolis get your

tickets make you our biggest show ever. Austin OKC get those tickets get in there before they're sold out because a lot of them are sold out already So thank you shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of those patreon.com Crime and sports bonus material coming out your ass hundreds hundreds of episodes anybody who gets five who does five dollars a month or above a cup of coffee or tons of funny shit New episodes every other week including this week for crime and sports which you have access to also you're going to talk about theme park disasters we're going to do another one of those small-town murder craziest execution methods in history holy shit is that going to be fun patreon.com slash crime and sports

and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show where Jimmy will fuck your name all of us at no additional charge. So that's gonna be remarkable. Listen to our other two shows as well, Crime in Sports, which is exactly what it sounds like, but less sports than you'd think and more comedy than any of it. So check that out.

And Your Stupid Opinions, which is the funniest hour on the internet. I dare you to find a funnier hour podcast. It will kick your ass. Listen to that as well. And join us again next week. We cannot wait for this. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.