Small Town Murder - #505 - Murder Mansion Mystery - Libertyville, Illinois

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

This week, in Libertyville, Illinois, the perfect family has the perfect house, in the perfect neighborhood. This all comes crashing down, one stormy night, when two horrific murders take place. It becomes a huge mystery, because family members won't let the teenage children talk to police. Was it the stoner son, who wouldn't join the army, like his dad wanted him to? The seemingly perfect, horse riding daughter? The youngest son, who has been in trouble his whole life? Along the way, we find out that Burlington Coat Factory is an awful place, and we all go there, that seeing someone toss something off a bridge during a night time thunderstorm might be the creepiest thing, ever, and that once in a while, time will loosen a murderer's defenses!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. This week in Libertyville, Illinois, the perfect family in the perfect house in the perfect neighborhood until one bloody night tears it all apart and earns the house the nickname of Murder Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane episode of Small Tom Murder. This one is no different. The twists and turns. It's a good

mystery today which I love. Property with a nickname. I love a mystery. I love a nickname for a property. All the kids are like, oh, that's Murder Mansion. Don't do that. Don't go near there. No, no, avoid that on Halloween. That's awesome. That's spooky and I love it. So let's get into it in a second here.

Before we do though, head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. First of all, get your merch, all sorts of merch there. Get your tickets to live shows. Oh my goodness, we cannot wait. September 20th is the next one in Minneapolis Yeah, it's at the Absolutely too nice for us State Theater. It's beautiful

Come on in and watch us foul it up with dick jokes because it's gonna be great Yeah, we can't wait if you sell it out. It will be our biggest show ever You'll beat Chicago and take the title of biggest small town murder live show ever. The next night we're in Milwaukee at the Pabst, which is also one of the most beautiful venues too. It's amazing and get those. There's only a couple tickets left there, so get them, a few tickets.

Grab those and then also Oklahoma City. We opened up more seats for Kansas City. Get in there, Austin, Texas. Boston, there's still some tickets left and then a few left in New York too, so get those. And yeah, shutupandgivemurder.com. Now, if you get that, all that's not enough. You have your tickets, you're listening to this show,

you're listening to Small Town Murder Express, you're listening to Crime in Sports, you're listening to Your Stupid Opinions, and you're like, I still need more of these morons. Well, we got you covered. We have for you Patreon, patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material. We got a couple of good ones for you this week in honor of the 4th of July and what

will a day that will surely be filled with fireworks accidents. We're going to talk about fireworks accidents throughout history. They're fun too. Because that's like explosive and there's like marching band music playing so it makes it extra ridiculous for some reason. For Small Town Murder we're going to talk about the real Tombstone. You like the movie Tombstone, you like Doc Holliday and Wyatt Earp and the Cowboys and all that stuff. We're going to tell you the real story and some of the stuff that the movie kind of, you know, made a little more cinematic and less real, you know what I mean? So we'll get into all that.

Patreon.com slash crime in sports. Do that and you get a shout out at the end of the show too, where Jimmy will mispronounce your name. So I mean, you get a lot here for the, for the $5 a month, anybody $5 a month or above. You can get a cup of coffee or all that we just told you about hundreds of episodes So do that that's that disclaimer time. Oh, yeah, this is a comedy show everybody It's also also a horrible murder show at the same time, but we're gonna find some jokes in there somewhere Yeah, and it's never during the murder. It's never like oh my god. It's hilarious to hear about dismemberment

That's not usually where that goes. It's more about, you know, hey, this guy thinks he can get away with murder and he's not real smart. That's good. Or, you know, why didn't this police department notice that this guy came in, it's like they said, well, we saw blood on his shoes, but we didn't think anything of it. So we let him go for five years

and he killed eight more people. Stuff like that. There's a lot of stuff to make jokes about, but what we don't do, we never do, we don't make fun of the victim or the victim's family because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. There you have it. That's how that works. So if that sounds good to you, oh boy, you're going to hear a wild story. You think that true crime and comedy should never, ever, never go together. I don't know. Maybe we're not

for you, but maybe we are. How about give it a shot? And then we just, if you don't like it, we part ways. No complaining later though, how about that? That said, I think it's time everybody, let's all sit back, what do you say? Let's all clear the lungs, arms to the sky, let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody, what do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's go. and give me murder.

Let's do this everybody. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's go. Let's hop in the car, Jimmy. We are on the move and we are headed to Illinois. Yeah. Let's go to Illinois. We're going to Libertyville, Illinois.

Where's that? Which doesn't that sound like a quintessential small American town, Libertyville? Yeah, sounds very nice. It sounds like there's a... Lots of flags lining Main Street. Right on the sides of the parade as it goes by, it really feels like...

Yeah, they have permanent flag poles on the lights. Oh, absolutely. So you can put flags up there anytime. They always got flags. Different flags for different occasions too. It's anything, a Christmas flag for the Christmas parade. There's flags, yeah. There's flags, yeah. It's in Northern northern Illinois it's the kind of far out Chicago

burbs. The exurbs they call them not the suburbs the ones beyond the suburbs second layer there. It's about an hour from Chicago an hour hour and change depending on traffic about 35 minutes to Arlington Heights Illinois which was actually our last episode which was kind of also in this area. But that's I know we were people want Southern Illinois too. And we'll get I promise you the next one will be Southern Illinois. But this is gonna be near Rockford then yeah, this is it's kind of northwest of Chicago. Okay. Oh, up there. Yeah, it's on the way to to Wisconsin, where back in the day all the kids would go to drink because Wisconsin had an 18 was there.

Drinking age in Illinois was 21. So. Surprised they still don't. Yeah, a lot of people drove, a lot of people drove through this town. Well in Wisconsin you can drink underage in a bar if you're with your parents. You can drink?

Yes, you can go to Wisconsin with your 14 year old and order them a beer and it's fine. What? That's legal. No. I look it up, that's absolutely legal. We're gonna have so many Wisconsin people go, oh Christ, I've been drinking in a bar

with my parents since I was 13. That's unbelievable. That's literally legal. No. I don't know how drunk they're allowed to get, you can serve them. So yeah, the last one Arlington Heights was, a Russian doll of murders was the name

of that one. It's kind of what we got here too. This is in Lake County area code 847. They have a motto in this town. Oh boy. By endurance we conquer. Oh, that's so so. We'll just intimidate. We'll just hang or not. It's almost like we'll just keep hanging around. You can. Yeah, they won't leave. We will not stop. We won't go away. We'll just stand here forever. You can't make us stop. You can beat us, but we'll eventually win. We'll get there. A little bit of history of this town,

kind of modern Libertyville history is in the 1830s is where people started settling here. A guy named George Varden came in and hung out with his family. At that point the town was called Varden's Grove, which is basically just that guy's yard. So and then in 1836 during the Independence Day celebration, where people I'm sure were injured with fireworks, like our Patreon episode, there will be blood Residents voted to rename the town Independence Grove. They were overcome with the spirit of the holiday. So.

This town was born on the 4th of July. It was. Mail service from Chicago to Milwaukee was established in 1836, and that meant that people here said, let's get a post office. So, you know, on the way up there, they can grab our shit too.

Drop it off, pick up, of. So they got their first one and it was registered under the name Libertyville on that day because an Independence Grove post office already existed in Illinois so they didn't check they just said Independence Grove yeah they didn't think about let's check and see if there's another one yeah nobody did that. So was a shit. So they became Libertyville without any kind of vote or anything like that. So they also had Burlington was the name of it

for a little while as well. Really? Yes, which is interesting. The coat factory was real embarrassing though we had to change it. They're like, oh, Jesus Christ. That place is just, have you seen it in there? It's a zoo, I can't it in there? It's a zoo.

I can't deal with it. It's just coats everywhere. It's a mess and everything's brand new, but it feels secondhand. It's strange. Cheap housewares that don't really work, shit like that. I don't want a knockoff nose hair trimmer right now. Can I say that with two coats in my fucking closet from there? Oh, I'll go right in there.

I don't care. I'll absolutely buy a big coat there. As I'll go there first is just to see. If I can get something there for half the price, I'm doing it. That's the thing. I'm cheap as shit. If I can't then I gotta go buy like normal clothes. But if I can get a Burlington I will. I'll get that.

It is fun to go in there and just laugh at myself that I can't believe I'm doing this again. Yeah. I'm doing this again. Yeah, I'm in a warehouse staring at racks of coats. It reminds me of like in a mob movie when they have like when they hijacked a truck and they have it all on racks in a warehouse. That's what it feels like. Like, oh, this is all hijacked off the truck. Or just still in the trailer.

That's what it feels like. Yeah, it's so weird. Such a weird place. So in the late 1800s, this place expanded rapidly once the railroad came through from Chicago to Milwaukee. So now you can go to either place and then it got big after that. And the village was finally incorporated in 1882. Now reviews of this town. Let's find out what other people think because let's do it. This is kind of an affluent area too, as we'll find out.

Oh yeah, no, this is like, this is nice out here. These people have, there's some dough out here. Really hear the income, median household income is wild. So here's five stars, quote, it's a very great town. It's a very great town. Okay. There are awesome restaurants downtown and everything is close together. I would assume it would be. It's a very great town. Yeah, OK. OK. There are awesome restaurants downtown, and everything is close together.

I would assume it would be. It's a small town. The communities are connected, and there are many things to do. The town is also close to other towns where things are, where there are more things. And so it's a very good place to be. Sounds like a seven-year-old wrote that, doesn't it?

Just got a real wide vocabulary that child. But like they start out with it's a very great town and at the last sentence it's a very good place to be. So it's a very good place to be. They learn sandwich your ideas and they did it. There was also a very famous, I just did it, but I don't know whether it was Shakespeare or Twain or somebody that is incredibly smart that said, anybody that uses, anybody that uses very before

their descriptive word is a fucking dummy. I mean, that's not their words. If you're a writer, yeah. Yeah, they said that's an ignorant person. Yeah, you can, there's ways to modify your word to mean that, so you don't need to use very. There are much better words than very. Yeah.

Sometimes it can be funny though. Yeah, yeah. Because it's a very has the rhythm of it. It's a cadence, yeah, it's just two syllables and it's fast, yeah. It's hard, it's fast, yeah, so in a comedic sense you can go, I was very something and it makes it much funnier.

Or extra, or superff Extra, yeah. So three stars, it's a nice community that is very safe but there's nothing to do. That's what happens. Trevor Burrus The other guy said that there's all kinds of stuff to do. David Scharff Just teeming with shit to do downtown. The price to rent a storefront is so high that they go out of business within months. It's a high rent district.

The town could be more things to do. That sentence doesn't work at all. I was like, is that me reading it wrong? No, no, that's how it said. Yeah, well, it's taking effect in the middle of the review. Yeah. Nope, it's the children who are wrong, as Principal Skinner would say. I guess it's mostly a lot of old people that live there Okay, which is sort of accurate yet. It's it's accurate

Here's two stars as I said before like we've all hung out with this person As I've always said yeah as I've said before that we don't know about the people aren't very good Aren't very good and then before in quotes, me first area. Okay. Okay. I don't know what. Was it entitled I guess? I guess so.

I don't know what he wants from people, but it's pretty funny that he says, as I said before I just love, oh. I've said it a lot. Just never put it on the internet. And then two stars. There aren't many attractions in this area This is nice though since there is little traffic or noise Love yet if you wanted to be quiet and in the middle of nowhere Then you're not gonna have a lot of like malls to go to or anything. That's the thing that works

Yeah, I do put up with a lot of traffic where I live because tons of shit around there. There's tons of shit Yeah, there's not there's really not shit, yeah. There's really not. It's fucking embarrassing how many people there are with the lack of shit to do. There's nothing here. Why are we doing this? There's nothing to do. It's just strip malls.

It's just like a chain pizza place and hungry hounds and shit. I'm driving 15, 20 minutes to get to a mall and it's literally five minutes away. Oh yeah. That's just traffic. It's just gonna get so much worse too. Oh, it's not five minutes away. Oh yeah, that's tragic. It's just gonna get so much worse too. Oh, it's not gonna get any better I don't think.

In the heat too, it's even worse. So population of this town, 20,616. So a good sized town, but not a giant town here. Females outnumber males by a good amount here. It's almost 53% female because there's some older people. Median age is 42. It's kind of just, there's a lot of kids from families, but there's also a lot of older people.

Husbands die first. Yeah. Yeah, so there you go. And you end up with more females. So married population here, well above the national average. It's almost 63% married here. Holy.

And out of that, 62% are currently married. So they're just getting married, staying married. Too much money in a divorce here. We. And out of that 62% are currently married. So they're just getting married staying married. Too much money in a divorce here. We can't do it. Can't do it. That's all there is. Now the unemployment rate is regular. Median household income here. Hold on to your ass everybody. Oh boy. 153,674. That's median. Doing it. That's fucking median household income. Wow. I don't know if we've, that's definitely in the high end of anybody, any town we've ever covered, I think. That's, yeah. That's up there. Cost of living though, 100 being regular, average

across the nation. Here it's 97. That is marvelous. That's great, but the problem is the main cost is housing. Median home cost here, $481,600. Holy shit. Yeah, this is like a real nice area that you're going to pay for is what this is. So we have for you the Libertyville, Illinois real estate report. Real Estate Report. The average two bedroom rental here is about $1,720 which is well above the national average.

Expensive. Alright, I found here's your bargain home. This is the cheapest home in the cheapest structure in Libertyville. Three bedroom, one bath, 1,080 square feet. It's a little house. It's very clean, very, you know, nice, very, very HGTV inside. You know, everything's brand new, white quartz countertops, all that kind of shit. Just reduced in price by $11,000. $339,000 bucks for that though. That's a tiny house for $339,000.

There's not much of a yard. It's a very small lot. That better be five acres, man. That is, nope. That is not five acres at all. That's what I mean. It's pricey. Here's a four-bedroom two-bath, 2,088 square feet on a quarter acre, which isn't very big.

That's not big at all. That's pretty small. Decent inside, but also some like old shit that needs to be updated, not? It's not all perfect inside. Nice fireplace that looks like it's old and pretty cool. 465,000 bucks for that. Jesus. And then finally, this is the most expensive house available in Libertyville. So we have the lowest and the highest. This is a four-bedroom, five-bath. Teeba-ho for each and every beehole, baby.

And a spare for the highest. This is a four bedroom, five bath, Teeba-Holfe reach in every B-Hole baby. And a spare for the neighbors. 5,252 square feet. It's a big house. It's a honkin' house on 0.26 acres mind you. Oh, that's all house. It's all house. It's yeah, not a lot. It's inside is fucking amazing. It's amazing. It's like how I would dream I want a house. It's like This huge long fireplace. That's really cool high ceilings all straight lines like fucking modern cool Really nice not a huge backyard. I will say no house not even a quarter acre But the neighborhood's like a very exclusive upscale. I mean, yeah, beautiful. It's like Brentwood over here.

2,675,000 bucks for that. You barely have a yard, man. That is nowhere to park. That's rough, dude. That's a rough one there. Things to do in Libertyville. Let's find out. The Libertyville Days Festival, of course, is the thing to do in Libertyville. Let's find out the Libertyville Days Festival, of course

It's the thing to do it is a yearly fundraising event to support the Libertyville Civic Center Foundation It's it's just more money to take from off of people to take. Oh, yeah to sir Well, they do like all sorts of like shit over the course of the year with you know Kids things and you know activities and all that kind of shit. So they fund it once a year with this. And some activities, first of all, on the Thursday, they're gonna kick it off with the Miss Libertyville pageants. Yeah, let's judge some women. You got Little Miss, we'll judge some children.

Sure, yeah. Ages six to eight. Junior Miss, ages 11 to 13. You really wanna stick them on stage during that awkward period and judge their looks that's good for them That won't cause any eating disorders later. Yeah, no bulimia coming from that and then the miss category Which is ages 16 to 21, which is not real fair at all And also weird a 16 year old like with a 21 year old you're like this is fucked up

She knows how to like pop her tits and stuff. I don't even know, like, you know. I just learned how to drive. Yeah, I got a lot going on. Yeah, she's fucking, I'm asking her to buy me some Boone's Farm. This is wrong. On the Friday, they have a children's party,

ages eight and under, games and activities, and a child fingerprinting and ID party. Let's get your kids. Whoo-hoo! Fingerprint those kids. Yeah! Now that's a party. You can take the ink and draw something with it. They give you a piece of paper after. I understand why. Yeah, yeah. It's just funny. This is fucking weird. This is the time this comes. Then there is a demonstration by the Tricochi University of Beauty Culture, where they're going to show you Minnie Manny's hair braiding and temporary tattoos. Followed up by a fireman's rib cook-off contest.

Oh. Bunch of guys in mustaches making ribs. That's what that's going to be. And then flirting with your wife. Yeah, that your wife wants to bang. Oh bunch of guys in mustaches making ribs. That's what that's gonna be Yeah, your wife wants to bang yay Then there's Todd Downing will be performing in the park Okay, and the Joey a capiato band. Oh Joey a get over here. What do you got going on?

Then the main stage though. Oh our other bands that those are the that's just the warm-up acts right let's get with the May we have guys II GA ZZE no I don't know it's reggae that's all okay yeah okay followed by uncle pigeon will be there follows gassy which is that stuff is that stuff. And it says in the description of them, Northern Illinois' fastest rising stars. I've known Uncle Pigeon. He's going to play the weed cloud. Yeah, I prefer Aunt Possum, but I'll take it. It's fine Next up Sneezy will be there. All right Talk with them. It doesn't say the whole then there's gonna be a just a parade of dwarfs after that There he is Libertyville's kings of jam we'll be back at it again They're local and they play fish. It sounds like oh

the Tim Gleason band. They say quote, this extremely popular country pop sensation. Sensation. Sensation, fastest rising star. They're really throwing around the words here. Did Mr. Gleason write this? I think this is from theirs, yeah. We'll get you dancing in the streets.

Oh boy. So I looked him up He looks like jr. From Reno 911 is exactly what he looks like and he was performing in American flag overalls Overalls that were in America with no shirt on underneath it Picture jr. From Reno 911 playing that yeah next up. Maybe my favorite band name ever melon cougar wonder what he plays. And it doesn't say he's a John Cougar Mellencamp tribute guy either. It's just called Mellenkugger and we just expect you to play like... He just plays ACDC only.

That's it. I figure just Jack and Diane a little off, you know what I mean? Mellenkugger. Mellenkugger. Could be better. Next up... Cougar's Melvins. That's it. I figure just Jack and Diane like a little off, you know what I mean? Like. Mellon Cougar. Mellon Cougar. Next up. Cougar's Melons. Cougar's Melons would be nice. Ivy Ford, who was just called the Queen of Blues.

Oh. The Queen of Blues. Who is the king? Is it baby king? She's like a 30 year old white lady, Queen of Blues. That's amazing. She knows all about it. All about it. The Rock white lady, queen of blues. That's amazing. She knows all about it. All about it.

The Rock City Seven, they do covers. The Expo 76 doesn't say what they do. Not a fucking, not a recognizable one amongst them? I don't know, let's find out with the big closer here. The Pino Farina Band. What? Pino Farina Band. What? Pino Farina. Oh boy.

Known for their showmanship, high energy performances and tender intimate songs. All of those, huh? That makes, yeah, they do all that stuff. They're poison. Let's get into the crime rate. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here. Property crime is about half the national average,

as it should be if you're paying that much money for a house and everybody's rich here. Violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the Mount Rushmore of crimes is about one third of the national average very low. Not a lot happening here. That said let's talk about a murder here. Some murder we'll talk about. Okay, let's start out. We're going to jump right in the fire here. No, June 5th, 1980 at 830 a.m. All right. So it's the morning. You can hear the bugs bunny morning music there. That's how uncultured we are. It's a classical piece of music. And to us, it's Bugs Bunny morning music. God, we're morons. So this is at 2057 North Milwaukee Avenue in Libertyville. It is a 13 room beautiful home.

Oh, it's a house, huh? It's a big home, real big. 13 rooms on seven and a half acres. Hell yeah Now I've read you all those two million something dollars for point two six acres and all that kind of shit seven and a half Acres these people have to check his ill over this thing. Yes. There's a long story It's well, you'll know by the end of it. You won't have to check Zillow because Trust me. It's on seven and a half acres they have a they have like horse stables there too yeah it's really nice it's in the Bull Creek subdivision in case anybody's wondering if they're from there now their family

is awakened at least 16 year old Robin is awakened by the phone at 830 a.m. okay she pops up she's a young lady years old. She is the daughter of the family. Her brother Billy, who's 15 years old, is in the next room. Now there's some debate as to who fields this phone call, but most people say it's Robin. So we're going to say it's Robin here because it makes the whole thing makes more sense anyway, if it's Robin. So I believe it probably was Robin. Somebody misheard it and it got out there and that's what happens. So she's woken up by the phone.

Now her father, Bruce, her name is by the way, Robin Rouse, that's the family name, R-O-U-S-E, Rouse. Her father's name is Bruce Rouse, which if you say it a certain way, he could be Bruce Rouse, which if you say it a certain way, he could be Bruce Rouse, which is a tough name. So Robin here gets a phone call and it's gas station employees. And we've all been awoken by gas station employees. The gas station is calling at 8.30?

There's a reason. Her father owns several gas stations. Oh, got it, yeah. And he's a real hands-on guy and one gas station opens at 5.30 a.m., or 5 a.m., and he's usually there by 5.30 to do the stuff with the safe and all that. And it's 8.30, and he hasn't shown up yet. So they're like, where the fuck is Bruce, man? What's going on? So Robin stumbles out of bed and goes looking for her parents.

And she is looking for her parents in the bedroom. She looks into the bedroom and Sees a horror scene. There's no blood Everywhere, I mean everywhere. Yeah, that's all she sees because she can't see her parents as we'll talk about why in a second here so she Loses it screams runs, gets her brother Billy. Billy, Billy, holy shit. There's blood everywhere, oh my God,

we gotta call the cops. She's hysterical, Billy calls the cops and says, I think something happened to my parents, my sister's freaking out, and they can hear her screaming in the background and all that kind of shit. So Billy, while they're waiting for the cops, runs outside out of the back door into the little

guest house cottage in the backyard. They got a little Cato Cailin, a little Cato Cailin house back there. Very nice. And back there is 20 year old brother, Kurt, who's living back there. Oh, he's having the time of his life. He kind of is too. He loves Kurt like Kurt's a big weed guy. He's in a band.

He's a big weed guy, likes to have a few beers. He stays in the half address behind the house. He's staying out behind the house. He's living the life of, he's in a band. He's a big weed guy, likes to have a few beers. And he stays in the half address behind the house. He's staying out behind the house. He's living the life of Cato Kaelin. He's just living quite the life here. So he's asleep back there, obviously. He's not going to get up to at least 12 31, I would say. So Billy goes in, wakes him up, and Kurt said later on, quote, I think he said mom and dad

are dead. I looked behind them and there was a police officer with a gun aimed at my head. It was like waking up into a nightmare. The cops showed up and they were clear in the fucking premises. Looking for, if there could be an intruder, there could be somebody hiding,

there could be anything. So more injured people. Guns at the kids? So they came in. Well, it's just a guy in the back. They't know it's this kid it's a 20 and if you looked at him he looks like it's only 1980 but he looks like he just joined Soundgarden is the best way to put it he's got long hair he's got like just the like a big goatee that like yeah that no big like go teeth oh like big

and full like he's in a band and he looks like and he looks like he's in a grunge band from the 90s. He was kicked out of Alice and Shane's for being too crazy. Too much of a drunk for them even. You know what I mean? Divorced beheaded died. Divorced beheaded survived. We know the six wives of Henry VIII as pawns in his hunt for a son, but their lives were

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including American Scandal, Legacy, and Black History for Real. When the matriarch of a prominent Princeton family is found stabbed to death in her locked basement, investigators look from a serial attacker to her family, to Princeton University students. One hot-blooded investigator sees a conspiracy. Is he way off base or does privilege let you get away with murder? You can listen to In the Shadow

of Princeton exclusively and ad-free with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple podcasts. Yeah. So that's what he looks like. And the police go in and they find Bruce and Darlene as well the parents of these three kids There's Kurt is the oldest Robin 16 and then Billy is 15 and Bruce is 44 Darlene is 38 Oh, they're so young the power. They're very young. Yeah, they got married young and had just started having kids when she was Born own several gas stations good Good for you, sir. I mean, he's got like a $3 million net worth in 1980, which is pretty damn good, I would say. The police find them in the bedroom.

They are covered with a red, white, and blue sheet. So a big sheet they're covered with. And they were like, oh, this isn't going to be good when we pull this back probably And by the way when they cover somebody gets covered up. It's in a place. That's not like to actually hide them It's usually some sort of guilt or remorse or some shit like that like they feel bad So they don't want to look at it basically so they take the sheet back and

Wow, it's like a horror movie. I mean, Bruce's lower jaw has been completely shot off. It's gone. Wow! Gone, and the top of Darlene's head is completely missing. Wow. The whole top of her head, like she got, opened it up to take something out.

Yeah. Missing, just blown to pieces. To cat. And there is blood everywhere. Opened it up to take something out. Yeah missing just blown to pieces to camp and There is blood everywhere. There's also a lot of wounds on Bruce's chest as well That don't look like gunshot wounds. So they're like what the hell is that cuz the the other two are clear Kind of point-blank shotgun blasts like that's the only thing that's gonna blow a jaw off and take the top of someone's head completely off They're fucking off their body So there's a trail of blood

That leads upstairs and stops at the landing as well The there's blood fucking every I mean imagine the scene in the bedroom It's blood walls bed floor ceiling like someone exploded in there So they find police find Robin in a state of hysteria. She's losing her shit, you know, 16 year old girl. She's barely in the Miss competition in the pageant. Right, she barely qualifies. Barely qualifying for this.

They said though that both Billy and Kurt seemed unusually calm here. And I don't know if that's like, you wake up up to this you'd be kind of in a state of shock Maybe like what the fuck is happening. Yeah, am I really awake? Yeah, but if you panic But you know that your big brother is there and who knows he's I don't know he's he's in a band He's 20 chill manage himself. Yeah, I mean if you've got him there Maybe you're calm too because at least I've got this guy here Yeah, also you're trying when you're 15 you have a 20 year old brother

No matter what the situation it's habit to try to not look like a pussy in front of your big brother You know what I mean look like I look like you're you can hang out with him and be grown up You know and also the other side of the coin as the 20 year old brother You don't look like a pussy in front of your younger brother. Exactly sister plus He smoked so much weed the night before probably too he was like what's up now? Like whoa hold on. I'm still very chill. I'm just I'm laid back at the moment here.

In the newspaper they call Kurt an unemployed musician which is a kind of a you know we get it yeah you said musician you know what I mean? So they told the sheriff investigator Kurt Prosiewicz that they heard nothing, they didn't hear anything during the night. Really? Said did you hear gunshots? And they said no, not at all. Not even two giant shotgun blasts?

Yeah, they said no, we slept, everybody said they slept through everything. They don't know. Wow. They said robbery doesn't look like a motive because Darlene was still wearing five rings and expensive ones too, diamonds and things like that. And Bruce's wallet was sitting on his dresser with $300 in it. So if anyone's doing a robbery, grabbing rings and a wallet off a dresser would be the things you would steal at least.

So they said maybe it was a robbery gone wrong because it looked like the bedroom had been ransacked a bit. And they asked the children and everybody else that, do you lock your doors? And they said, usually no, we don't want our doors. This is a very safe area. And they're kind of, where they are is kind of by themselves.

There's not a lot of houses around. It's, you know, they don't even think about it. Kurt said, I don't know that anyone in the family actually carried a key. That's because one of the doors will be open type of thing. He said it was that kind of feeling in Libertyville that you could just leave your doors open and no one was going to wander in your house. Wow. Yeah, what a fucking life these people are living.

Truly. I mean, I've been in a lot of places and every time I'll lock that somebody's coming Click that's the first thing I'm doing lock. Yeah, like somebody saw me go in the door They're gonna follow to see what's in there Yeah, they're waiting or they've been waiting like for me to arrive so they can murder me one of the two They're hanging out in a bush anywhere. No, they're just waiting or they're gonna sneak in and hide there until I go to sleep and then Murder me That's a that's a big one. I have another somebody wants in here. Someone wants to fuck in here

So the fire chief who showed up said quote I've been on thousands of calls and many of them have been brutal, but none quite as brutal as this one Yeah, how do you they're fighting parts of heads everywhere? If you've seen two people minus half of their head, get out of that job, man. That's a crazy job, dude. I would think that would be the big thing. If you're a cop, there's a lot of shit

you have to deal with, obviously. That's a shit job. Whatever. But the first time you get called to some kind of scene where there's just a decomp, like someone who's been in a house for 30 days and all that kind of and all that you got to actually go in there and look at that shit that's I don't want to do this again no I'd be like well that's enough of that shit it's gonna happen again and again and again for 25 years last I'm doing that shit man so let's

talk a little bit about these people and find out who they are. Bruce here, the 44-year-old patriarch of the family, he comes from gas station people. Oh, the whole family's been doing this. The whole family. Yeah, Bruce was born in 1936. His father owned a successful gas station in Mundelein, which is another suburb around here. One of the first ones for Christ's sake. Back then, this was a big deal.

Gas stations were new, sort of. He opened it in the 20s. In the 30s, yeah. In the 20s if you opened it. Cars haven't been around that long. No, no. And a lot of them ran on kerosene and shit. Ran on whatever you put in it.

Yeah. Whatever was flammable nearby. Oh shit, booze, moonshine. So Bruce got his first job pumping gas in a family-owned business. Gee, wonder how he got that. That must have been hard to fight through the pile of applicants for that one.

Yeah. But he wanted to be on his own. He opened his first gas station before he was 21. Atta boy. Not bad. This is with family money, too, and that sort of thing. But still, he opened it. Still gotta do it, yeah.

It's one thing to, cause like, it's one thing to get money to open something, but then you actually also have to run it. Right, the capitol's the hard part to come across, but then you have to actually now do the job. Yeah, so a lot of people who get handed the money can't do the job after that. Right, a lot of people fail

even when they have dad's money. This guy, he'll work 20 hours a day a lot of people who get handed the money can't do the job after that. A lot of people fail even when they have dad's money. This guy, he'll work 20 hours a day a lot of days. He is a very hardworking guy that is not resting on his family money, which is nice to see. He also, this is when he's in the mid-50s when air conditioning was far from a standard thing in cars. It was like a special order in a car. He decided to set up a facility in the corner of his garage strictly for installing air conditioning and adding them at a boy. Yeah, he thought that was going to be the big wave of the future and it absolutely was because people, you know, wanted them so bad.

So people all throughout Chicago would bring their cars to him. He had like a huge monopoly on it for a while. He made $80,000 in his first year. This is in 1955. Oh boy. So that's like making over a million dollars in today's money. That's a lot of money. So his family has been in this area forever by the way. His family's been here since 1880. They got here, which is right around the time they got like they were actually like incorporated and it became a real town right so his grandfather was the mayor of the town yeah they're a very prominent family here his father had the gas station had some property Bruce took that and what his father had and then built on it he bought more gas stations.

Bruce invested in property and a ton of real estate holdings. And also interest in, this is how he, this guy saw the future, man, between the air conditioning and in the early 70s, he invested in cable television companies. What? He said, that's gonna be a big deal. He fucking knew it.

He fucking knew it. And think about, in 1980, when this all happened, it was about to blow it. And think about it's a in 1980 when this all happened, it was about to blow up. He was about to make a fortune off of that shit. And also like shops for auto maintenance and things there. He's not the kind of guy who really hangs out at the country club or anything like that very often. Either. No, he, he goes to work in overalls and comes home with grease all over him. That's him. He works hands on.

He'll go back and work on a car if he feels like it. That's what he does. So he works, everyone calls him a workaholic, like by far. He's never home they say. He's always at work. He works at least 16 hours a day if not more. That's how you get $3 million in the bank. That's the thing.

Yeah, he had to work that hard. So one resident who knew him since high school called him a bit rough around the edges, not really polished. Okay. He's not one of those guys. I've seen a lot in the mirror that looks like me, man. Are you? Except for that money part.

Except for the, and working 16 hours a day and being covered in... me, man. Except for that money part. Except for the, and working 16 hours a day and being covered in, I'm seeing nothing here that sounds like you. Absolutely nothing. I would ask, if I owned it, and if I had the capital and something that I loved that I could go do. You're late to this. What are you talking about?

This guy's at work at 5.30 in the morning. When I worked, I was fucking working. I was doing. Hung out with30 in the morning when I worked I was fucking working I was doing hung out with you when you would blow off your job to sit in my fucking living room for two hours and play Madden football and talk about comedy with me. You are not a hard worker. You are a fucking You're a hard worker if you want to like like fix your jet ski, but outside of that you are a fucking terrible employee like fix your jet ski, but outside of that, you are a fucking terrible employee. And so am I. I'm an awful employee.

I'm a bad employee, I'm a hard worker. That's a good point. Yeah. So I'm saying if I owned it and I loved it, I'd fucking do it 20 hours a day, absolutely. That's fucking funny. That sounds great. We do this in a state of law.

But doing it for somebody else, I'm a bad employee. Yeah, that's the thing, yeah. That's amazing. I was gonna say, because we're both bad employees. Yeah, that's the thing, yeah. He's a, that's amazing. I was gonna say, cause we're both bad employees. Yeah, employee! But we work our asses off on this, you know what I mean? Working for ourselves, we work hard. There's a lot to do.

I've always been an awful employee though, good God. Oh boy, I won't do it for anybody else. You don't want me working for you. You don't want me working for you. For a salary, fuck that. But for like, doing it on my own. I'll work hard Yeah for a for possibly no return whatsoever. I'll throw everything into it We've done that that's a week that's a gambling my whole life on it fucking all in

Guaranteed money if I just do what this guy asked me to know that fuck you can't be bothered. Sorry No, fuck you can't be bothered. Sorry. Don't tell me what to do Other people though about Bruce said he was a dedicated community worker and always generous to those who were in trouble Somebody needed anything he'd help him out Now when he I don't know what's good. He's got to be like 23 when he meets her which is very strange. He meets Darlene Stenland will be his wife He's six years older than her right and she's still in high school when they meet Which means that or 60s? This is in the 50s. I guess that was especially if you were successful, right?

Christ if you were Jerry Lee Lewis, she could be 14 and your cousin and nobody gave a fuck. So yeah you can fly to you fly to Germany and and take a sergeant's daughter if you're Elvis Presley. Yeah, totally. And they're like, yeah, there you go. Head on back to Graceland in good health. But Darlene here. Yeah, I guess back in the 50s that was he's a successful young guy.

He's a catch in this town. Yeah, I mean, so I guess nobody really cared at that point a little creepy now Don't be trolling around the high schools when you're 23, please. Would she have been she been 16 17? I guess 17 here if he's 22. She's 16 something like that back then that was considered fine She probably popped into the gas station and saw him in his overalls and that rag in his back pocket. Look at you. Top it off. You betcha.

They got married as soon as she graduated from high school in 59 and she'll have kids. I mean, boom, Kurt is there in 1960, right there. Right away. He is trying to work up a chain of gas stations. That's what he's doing. So he's opening new ones, he's building them up and this is 5.30 in the morning, he comes home at 10.30 at night most of the time. Good Christ. Crazy schedule, yeah. And at first, the first year or so, she would

work at the stations with him. Really? She'd come, yeah, so they could be together because that was their honeymoon was, you know, going to work at the gas station. There was no No honeymoon it's a standard stations Now yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think they turned into Chevron so they have kids they have Kurt 1960 They have Robin in 1963 and they have William Billy, he goes by in 1964. Now by the time the 70s come around here, he owns a bunch of gas stations, has all these real estate holdings, he's a partner in a cable television station

and an investor in other companies that are cable companies. He had interests in a concrete ready mix firm and used a car, and a used car business also, and he had about $3 million in personal fortune or they did as a group here. He's like a mobster but like a legit one. But totally legit. I'm a legitimate businessman and he totally is.

Paying taxes and shit. He's got a ready mix. God damn. No, this guy is hustling man but he would still work at least 16 hours a day a lot of times at the nearest station to his home in Libertyville. That's where he was there all the time. So, in 1974 is when they buy their new house,

and this is like their big, we've arrived thing. This is it, yeah. This is a mansion. It's a 13 room mansion on seven and a half acres. It's beautiful, 2057 North Milwaukee Avenue, like we said. He had a swimming pool put we said. He had a swimming pool put in or they had a swimming pool put in the first year they were there. Really? And then the next year they covered it up. So made it into a, into a building so they

could use it year round indoors. You know, yeah, you know, it's, it's tough in the winter. Sometimes I want to swim. You know, that's rich. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, you're like this weather, it's cold and that makes me not be able to swim. You know, that's rich. Yeah, indoor pools, yeah. You're like, this weather, it's cold, and that makes me not be able to swim. Let's build a house for our pool. Let's make it warm. Wow, that is a rich person solution to shit. Then they added stables for horses.

These are for Robin's two horses, because Robin has two horses. Oh, that's nice. He literally bought his daughter a pony and then said how about Let's do it again. Yeah What an idyllic life for these fucking shit. I'm jealous as shit of these kids or pools and horses fuck man indoor cool pools horses an expensive game room With like all the new like they had arcade games back right like when they were brand new they had him in this room

Like this fucking place is crazy as a kid. You can ask for a better thing They said though the interior they said it lacked any decorating flair and the general feeling was more cluttered than anything else Okay, yeah, he doesn't care because he's never home. Yeah, he's like a gas station Yeah, he's leaving overalls everywhere and brake pads and shit. And I think too, like if you're, if you don't, because I don't think she comes from a lot of money, Darlene,

so if you're not like from money, I don't know if, getting money doesn't automatically make you know how to like, what expensive shit to buy that looks nice. So maybe they're just happy with whatever, you know, they don't care and and he likely As the guy that's working fucking 12 15 hours a day. He's coming home. He doesn't care. He doesn't give a shit No, they say he goes home. He goes right to sleep most of the time. This isn't the gas station. I don't care What's here doesn't matter? What's here? Yeah? I know my bays are clean, but outside of that. I don't know

So Darley he cleans everything in the house of gasoline that I don't know so Darley he cleans everything in the house of gasoline like this isn't how we do it here Bruce stop spraying the horse with that we have pledge here we don't use gasoline he's just wiping down the horses leg look rag soaked in gasoline like it's a wrench so Darlene and this is from a newspaper I'll describe how they describe her Darlene, and this is from a newspaper, I'll describe how they describe her. Darlene Rouse, 38, a short, dark-haired, slightly chubby woman. That's how they describe her.

Had an active social schedule and it does too. She's got all sorts of shit going on here. People said she was obsessed with bridge, playing bridge. The card game? The card, she's only 38, not 68. Yeah, that sounds like my husband died and now I just play bridge every day with all of my friends. Yeah. I smoke Benson and hedges and play bridge. It's wonderful.

Pinnacles next. Yeah. She's obsessed with that and she's in a bunch of different bridge clubs and she bowls every day at 4 p.m. Every day. That's the most Midwestern thing I've ever heard. A rich woman bowls every day at 4 p.m. There's no other place in the country where a rich woman bowls at 4 o'clock every day except for Milwaukee and Chicago and that general region. A rich club at noon bowling at 4.

Bowling at 4. That's awesome. So she did that. She would meet with about a dozen friends at Miss Alice's restaurant on Main Street and have coffee and bullshit with the girls and that was after bowling. And then she'd come home. Husband was never home, didn't matter. So there you go. She is doing so much stuff though with all of this shit. It's a lot. They spoil the hell out of the kids too. I mean, really spoil them.

The girls got two horses, James. I think that's pretty obvious. And she only asked for one, as we'll talk about here. Really? Yeah. They said that Bruce was always spending extra money on his kids, giving them what they wanted, getting them out of trouble with his money and things like that too.

Yeah, this is all. Gross. There's some problems in the family. They look perfect from the outside. Two boys and a girl and the house and the businesses, but kind of different here. One investigator said everybody kind of went their own way in their own direction.

The father was a workaholic, the mother had outside interests, bridge and clubs and things like that. Oh, she's having the life. She's the winner. Oh yeah, she's having a great time. And the kids went their own direction too. So they did their own thing.

Another guy says the whole family didn't get along together. There was trouble among everyone. The parents didn't get along, the kids didn't get along. Really? was trouble among everyone. The parents didn't get along, the kids didn't get along. Really? Everybody's fighting with each other, but there's like this veneer of wealth,

and they can all kind of use the money and the size of the house to kind of stay away from each other. Okay, yeah. And ignore their problems. Sure. You know, you can just buy your way. Oh, he's being a pain in the ass, let's send him to a camp.

Here's the money he needs, just get him the fuck out of here. Yeah, get Robin another horse. That's great. She'll go do that. So one friend said they were not exactly your all-American family. They said it wasn't because Bruce and Darlene didn't try. They said, one friend said,

I think they tried too hard to make it perfect. Yeah, they came up in the 50s and they had this idea of what the perfect American family was and that's what they were trying to be and material shit and giving your kids everything was part of that. Let's talk about a bit of the kids here and see what their deal is. Now Billy, he's the youngest, Billy a neighbor said later on he was bad news from nursery school. Hell, I'm bad news. Bad to the bone.

She's just going to start singing George Thorogood lyrics. On the day he was born. The nurses, they all gathered round. They all gathered round. She called him in this I've never heard these words put together before quote a gross delinquent. Gross one. Gross at least she didn't say very. Yeah that would change it. That would change it. A gross delinquent always in trouble of one kind or another even as a little kid. He's only 15. He's already always been into shit. Ruined.

He's ruined. He's all been into shit. Since nursery school. Yeah. You can't even read yet. He's a spolt baby, huh? Yeah. And I'm going to blame parents for that.

If your kid is 17 and a shithead, the world has affected him also by that point or him or her so you know That might not be your fault, but if the kids four in a shithead you've had Literal physical control over that kid its entire life. That's your fault zero outside Influence so far. This is all you Anything anything it does you can literally pick it up and move it to someplace else to where they can't do that Yeah, you've had full control So when he was in the fourth grade Billy he

Freaked the teacher out he brought his old he brought in a bunch of animal feet into class Okay, duck feet like possum feet raccoon feet, just feet of shit that was in the woods. Just the feet. He's picking up the woods, not making the feet. He's not like taking them off of things. He told teachers his brother Kurt caught them in traps around Butler Lake. They were like, well, where'd you get all the feet, Billy?

Where's the rest of the animals, John? He's nine, so they're like, this is weird. Hey, where's the rest of the duck? Hey, ducks have bills. Did you see that lying around anywhere? Where's this duck that swims in a circle? So near the end of sixth grade, Billy was accused of setting off a false fire alarm, which

is what every school has the one asshole kid who sets off the fire alarm. He's what every school has the one asshole kid who sets off the fire alarm. He's accused of that. That's what I mean. We know those. We know. And he was sent to the principal's office for this. And his father was pissed. His father was so mad that he wanted to teach him a lesson because he's been bad since nursery school. So he said, I'm going to nip this right now. Not quite in the bud, but yeah, somewhere. He comes to the school, the father shows up

to the principal's office with a policeman with him. Oh. Yeah, he shows up with a cop, and somebody said Billy was absolutely terrified, white as a ghost. He's like, oh shit. He thought he was getting arrested. They took him to the police station.

Oh, they did fake arrest him. Yeah, they fake arrested him. It's funny cops still do that. You'll still see a fake arrest on on patrol once in a while. The kid will won't, you know, mother can't control him. They'll go up to the mother and they'll go I'm gonna take him put in my car for a minute. So he'll go cuff the kid. That's it. Sorry, you're going in. Head on the top of the head and the kid goes in there and he's sobbing and he goes and gets up later yeah because the kids 12 yeah so they said they took him to the police station and he became absolutely hysterical screaming and crying and he shit his pants uncontrollably in the police station he lost his mind so much he screamed and cried and shit himself

That's how they fingerprinted him We're gonna use that now boy How as a parent? What do you do with that is? I mean at some point you've got a stop, right? And you take... do you go so hard on this kid that you make him shit his pants? That's what I mean, but they just took him to the police station. Nobody beat him or like, you know, anything like that. They just said, well, this is what happens and he lost his fucking shit. Like you can't take me. Yeah, I was shitting my twice.

Lost it. My god. He had a fucking... he had a shit fit He really lost his mind here And I mean it's sad thinking of a you know, 11 year old kid doing that but it's like what the fuck bro I mean, yeah have some decorum here and as a parent logistically. What do you do? How are you gonna get him home? There's at least at least, you know, your kids not that much of a badass, you gonna get him home? I don't know. Yeah, there's that. But you got, there's at least, at least you know, your kid's not that much of a bad ass. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not like throw me in a fucking cell. See if I can.

Yeah. I'll run that fucking place in two days. I don't care. I like bread and water. Let's go. Go fuck yourself. Yeah. He's shit in his pants. So I think the father said, maybe I scared him. Maybe this is scared straight. Yeah. Or, or this just fucking ruined this child. Or gave him a poop fetish. We'll find out. Who knows. So finally he said his sister had told him to do it and they took him home. But I guess it had a huge impact on him. He was humiliated that he shit his pants and he was all upset and he blamed it on his sister who by all stretch of anything. Robin did this?

We don't think Robin told him to do it. But she might've, she's only a year older. So that's close, kids fuck with each other when they're real close. Billy gets a little worse here. At one point he felt ignored by his father because he was working so much which makes sense So he said quote I wanted his attention. So I set his bed on fire. Oh my god, that'll do it

I'll get my attention. Was he in it? No, okay No, but when he came home to go right to sleep, yeah, his bed was so he couldn't do that We're gonna have a problem. Yeah, and then he had to deal with him You know what I mean? It's like Anthony Michael Hall in the Breakfast Club now. They have to deal with me. It's one of those That was beds burned. Yeah, so Kurt said that he thought Billy's problems were rooted in an undiagnosed learning disorder He's frustrated Kurt said I think Billy had some learning disabilities Maybe some dyslexia and also he was one of the kids who smoked cigarettes and got in trouble

That's not a learning disability. He just We were those kids too and Yeah, it wasn't because we had we didn't read well it was because yeah, they have nicotine in them Yeah, boys that got hold of you, it got a hold of you. It gets a hold of you. I am sucking on a lozenge right now so that I don't do that. Exactly, no shit. He also, Billy in school doesn't do very well,

not a real good student. It was determined that he, they found this out when he was about 12, that he didn't know how to read yet. He's been going, he's been faking it, he's been getting by, he's been going to good schools too. So it's not like it was, you know, hey, there's 45 kids in the classroom, it's, you know, West side of Baltimore or something. These kids are getting their little asses kissed and he still, he didn't figure out

how to read. And so we don't know if that's a learning disability, dyslexia, whatever it is. So his father put him in a correctional school. And I also would be asking for those checks back. Yeah. You know what I mean? Hey, well he was going to public school. Oh, okay.

He was going to public school. Now he's gotta go to a different one, and Libertyville High School actually pays for it to get him out of there. Wow. They even pick up the tuition but Billy along with some other kids here vandalized not one but three different schools in the village. Billy. Well he was there. His father had to then pay the $250 monthly tuition. The school wouldn't do it anymore so that's how that went. So that's what he was doing

then he was in this correctional school. Apparently though, he went, this is in 1979, Billy and some others, when they were vandalizing all sorts of shit, they really fucked up a principal's office. That was one thing. So he's got it in for principals. And then after he got caught and in trouble,

he withdrew a substantial amount of money from his bank account because rich 15 year olds have bank accounts with money in them. Imagine imagine having a bank account with money in it when you were 15. How quickly would you spend all of that on weed? It would be gone very fast on a lot of different dumb shit. All sorts of shit. Yeah. Hey, I'm Michelle Beatle. And I'm Peter Rosenberg.

Hey, Peter, tell the people about our new podcast. Right. It's called Over the Top. And we cover the biggest topics in sports and pop culture using Royal Rumble rules. That means we'll start with two stories, toss one out on its ass and dive into the other stories with ruthless aggression. Oh, but it never stops because every 90 seconds after that... Oh God, whose music is that? Another story comes down to the ring.

Rinse and repeat until we arrive at the one most important thing on planet Earth that week. Follow Over The Top on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Over The Top ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus. For the record, this is not a wrestling podcast. No, no, but it is inspired by wrestling. Isn't everything inspired by wrestling, Beatle? Fair point.

He took a bunch of money out of his bank account and ran away to Florida. He got to Florida? He got to Florida. He's 14 years old. He got to Florida. Holy shit. And he stayed for two weeks. He just kicked it. Had like a fucking, let me have a honeymoon with myself.

You know, I went to the beach. I watched the sunrise in the morning. It was excellent. Yeah. That is certainly a foreign idea to me of how that was even possible. That's a bad, imagine that I'm going to run away to Florida and just hang out. That's the kind of money he had. He could live off it for two weeks is incredible. So that's Billy. Okay. The 15 year old. Now let's talk about Kurt. Kurt started out as exactly what his father wanted. I mean, he was, he played football

on the, you know, Lake Forest Academy football team. He was runner up in the state of Illinois in the 167 pound wrestling class in high school, second in the state at his weight class. That's impressive. Yeah. So they were very proud of him. Very proud of him. He graduates from high school and this is all through high school great grades to sport athlete Yep, everybody looks up to him and then he just does nothing after high school. He has no ambition whatsoever None He and his parents fought all the time because they wanted him to go in the army because he had no other prospects He didn't want to go to college,

he didn't want to do anything. So like, you gotta do something, join the fucking army, at least you'll be somewhere for a couple years and you can figure out what you want to do. Eventually though, they just said, okay, to stop arguing, rather than moving to the army, we'll just move you into the guest house for now

and we can stop arguing. It's closer than the army. That's a bad transition because that just gives him an out. Exactly. Well, then they said, this is a friend said or a neighbor that knows them. People say the parents wanted Kurt to go into the army. He had a couple of jobs and but didn't stay long. I guess he was just sitting around not doing anything except smoking pot and drinking. That sounds great. That's really, to be 20 for a day, 20 in your own little cottage with money to smoke pot

and drink without working. I want one weekend like that now. I would kill for that weekend. I told my son that he's going to college when he graduates and he said he wants to take a year off. I think this is what he has in mind. This is exactly what he has in mind. He's gonna be Kurt back there.

Watch out if he tries to join a band. Does he play any instruments? Not yet. Okay, well he'll pick it up, I'm sure. Kurt never holds a steady job. He occasionally worked at one of his father's gas stations. He didn't like that either, didn't want to do it. He's very lazy, Kurt, which is so weird because in high school he wasn't lazy at all.

He's always at a sports practice, he's always studying for something and now it's just, I don't feel like doing nothing no more. Just that's that. Tough times create tough people, you know what I mean? Exactly. And soft, like easy shit makes soft, easy kids. Absolutely, but then again, their dad had ambition without having it hard. He came up wealthy too and his grandfather was the mayor and all that kind of thing, but he had ambition. It's just either have ambition or you don't. Sometimes it takes a couple generations,

I think. It skips a generation sometimes, it really does. So the parents thought if he joins the army, because his father had been been in the Bruce had been in the army for a couple years. So he said look if you join right after World War two so he got it was a perfect timing pre Korea post World War two. Nice nice little soft spot. So he said he thought it would straighten him out like it would straighten him out. He goes straighten me out will straighten you out. He said stop hanging out because basically what he does, Kurt likes to go to the park, Cook Park, that's by the way where they have the festival

we talked about, and just likes to smoke weed, sitting on a bench and drink out of a paper bag. Fucking sick day. That's what he likes to do, sounds great, right? Yeah. I love it. At one point he agreed to join the army, but it was because his parents offered him a bribe.

They say it was cash up front, they were gonna pay him to join the army. They were gonna give him a signing bonus. A signing, yeah. And $500 for each month he served. They'll pay him on top of what he makes in the army. Oh, fucking, yeah. I'm going for the recruiter, yeah.

There's no wars going on at that point or anything. Fuck it, why not? Let's do it. Kurt then changed his mind, and his parents were super on at that point or anything. Fuck it, why not? Let's do it. Kurt then changed his mind, and his parents were super pissed at that shit. They were not thrilled at all. That's when he moved into the coach house behind the main quarters of the house.

That's when he went out to the guest house. It got too, shit got too hot. A friend said, when they found out he had changed his mind, they became absolutely incensed. It had gotten to the point where parent and child couldn't stand one another and they became completely alienated So yeah And also by the way Billy when he's going to Florida Billy also smokes we drinks sure does fucking you know? Hallucinogens and shit like that whatever he wants wants. Whatever he wants, yeah, the life of a rich kid. Both boys fought with their parents, neither of them

really respected authority and all that kind of thing. Billy would fight with Darlene a lot because she's the only one home. And when he's fighting with his mom, if the father happened to be there, he'd just go, come on Billy, cut it out, and then he'd go sit back down. wouldn't like he's too tired he's just like come on Billy Jesus yeah he doesn't want to deal with it when he's home so

they said that Darlene would threaten to hit Billy with something she'd pick up like a statue and say I'm gonna crush your skull with this like how do I get something I'm gonna beat this into your head and he would taunt her. Do it. And say quote go ahead tell dad he won't do anything about it. He's not gonna do anything. You see they never do. So then there's Robin.

Robin is described by a close friend as the apple of her father's eye. Daddy's girl. Daddy's girl and everybody said by the way that Billy was of her father's eye. Daddy's girl. Daddy's girl. And everybody said, by the way, that Billy was Darlene's favorite. Really? Billy was mom's favorite even though she was- She was the young baby, yeah.

Threatening to crush his skull. He's the baby, the baby boy too. She never crushed his skull, you know what I mean? Never crushed his skull, that's true. She loves him. This person said about Robin that Bruce would do anything for her. When she wanted a horse, he bought her two.

See what I mean? She only wanted one. Then he built stables for her and bought her saddles. When she turned 16, he bought her a new car. So he's just like spoiling the shit out of her. And she's also very respectful. She does very well in school. Yeah, she's kind of doing quote her part Whatever that would be for this

She her father loved everything she did Never disappointed in her She appeared to get along with her parents very well as you would if they were buying you building you horse stables You better fucking be nice to them But her and Kurt didn't get along Okay, she fought with Kurt a lot. Yeah, four years apart. One time I guess when she was, I don't know, he was 17 and she was 13 or something. He took her out with his friends and got her drunk and she got sick and all that and she was mad at him and people say maybe that's what

it was about. Which is when you're 13 all you want is your older sibling to take you out and get you drunk. That sounds awesome when you're 13. Especially nowadays that wouldn't fly, but in 1980 that was all you wanted. You know? It's fucking awesome. So Bruce and Darlene though, they say that the family, they had their troubles too. People talked about how Darlene walked in

to her coffee club one day, Alice is there, and was showing pictures that showed bruises on her and saying, Bruce did this to me. Really? So I don't know how he was home long enough to kick her ass, but he apparently was. Maybe he does it in his sleep. He's a violent man when he snores. Maybe, that's a thing.

There are people that strike out in their sleep and people wake up bruised. And June 4th, 1980, this is the day before where we started here, Bruce and Darlene go golfing with a friend that day. They take a day off. A guy named John Feeney, who was a family acquaintance and went with them here. That

day and other times before, this guy said Darlene said she was afraid of Kurt. Really? Afraid of him. Yeah, this guy said that the parents were going to change the locks and exclude him from the house. Oh, kicking him out. The guy said, in other words, get rid of himhmm And I guess Kurt knew that so that was a an issue in the house that was not to have to figure it the fuck out Yes, so now June 5th 1980. Let's do this here. Um This this day I'm the opening should be June 6th, by the way is the morning of the 6th

But this is June 5th here Kurt Here he fought. He fights with Darlene that day fights with mom 6th by the way was the morning of the 6th but this is June 5th here. Kurt here he fights with Darlene that day, fights with mom. Really? The day of the 5th. Yeah. Both there was about the army again. And they look at this act here because what we'll find out they say Kurt's a pretty big strong kid. You know he's not a huge kid but he's strong and athletic so. He's young. And he's young. I mean, and he's young. Bruce went to work and took Billy with him to help him install a spray painting booth for cars. So Billy went with him to help him work. Yeah.

Then at the end of the day, he went, Billy went home and Bruce went to a rotary club meeting, you know, because God forbid you're home. Yeah. So Billy went home and drank went to a rotary club meeting, you know, because God forbid you're home. So Billy went home and drank and smoked hash. It was pretty good. Pretty good day, pretty good after work activity. He's living like a much older man, I'll say at 15. I built a paint booth. Weed's not gonna do it.

No, I got a hash and booze. That's all I can do. 100%, I need all the, right away I need to be stoned. Weed's not gonna do it. No, I got a hash and booze. That's all I can do. 100%. I need all the, all, right away I need to be stoned. I don't wanna get, I wanna skip high. No, I wanna go right to, right to fuck, and I'll be fucked up anyway, cause I'm gonna have a half a bottle

of Thunderbird beforehand, so. I'm gonna crossfade the shit out of this. Oh, I bet he has good booze too, this little shit head. Oh, you bet. Yeah, he's got a nice Glenlivet. He's got like something good He's not drinking fucking mad dog 2020. He's got probably got a nice beer and and some and some Hard whiskey, I'll bet that's what he drinks. Probably got a backer there. Yeah now 1030 p.m. Is when Bruce gets home and

That's about normal for him when he usually comes home Starts he's there at 5.30 and works till then. That night, like I said, he was working with Billy, went to the Rotary Club meeting and all that. Billy said he curled up in front of the television in the rec room and he said he dozed off because he was, you know, smoking hash and drinking. You work all day, come home, smoke hash and drink booze, you will doze off quickly. Yeah.

You're going to miss Carson. Absolutely. Billy said he woke up in the living room and then stumbled into his bedroom on the second floor and went to bed. His sister was sleeping already in the room next door to him. Now apparently Darlene, mom here, came home from a bridge party at about 11. These people are living a wild life, man. They are staying up late.

Yeah, and she, I guess, went to bed too, is what it looks like. And Kurt had been out with a girl that night, you know, because he's Kurt. And he's like, I didn't grow my hair this long for nothing. And he had come home, but he didn't go in the house. He went right back to his guest house and went in there and was hanging out, went to sleep. Darlene, like we said, was out for dinner and playing bridge with friends and all that kind of thing. Now, by the way, lately Darlene had been threatening

to send Billy to military school because she'd been noticing that he smells like booze all the time. Now everybody's in bed apparently and whoever did this enters the master bedroom on the north side of the house. And by the way, the casete is all the way at the south side of the house and the master bedroom's all the way at the north side.

And while the parents were sleeping, Darlene was the first to get it, was shot point blank between the eyes with a 16 gauge shotgun. My word. Between the eyes and took the top of her head clean off. Which is fucking horrible. One shot, that's all that was there now She died immediately they said yeah, it took half a brain away. Yeah, no that hasn't have half her brain Apparently this noise is a shotgun blast woke Bruce up right next to your head. Yeah, what the fuck he popped up apparently and

Was like what's going on and then the killer turned to him with the shotgun and shot him in the face too. But didn't hit him up high, hit him in the jaw. Hit nothing vital, just took his jaw off his head. Took his jaw and half his face off his head, but didn't kill him. Oh no. Didn't hit any organs, didn't hit brain,

didn't hit brain stem, nothing like that. Just the bottom face. So he's just this horrible, writhing, bloody mess. So this must have freaked whoever did this out that a shotgun blast to the face didn't kill him. So the guy, whoever did this just turned the gun around and started beating him with the butt of the gun. Yeah, because it's only got two rounds in it.

That's, yeah, reloaded. So beating him with the butt of the gun. Yeah, because it's only got two rounds in it. That's yes. And reload it. So beating him with the butt of the gun. Yeah. And that didn't work. So he then stabbed him repeatedly, or they then stabbed him repeatedly in the chest until Bruce finally died.

Boy. Total of six stab wounds, deep stab wounds to the chest. Somebody is covered in blood. That's right, I'm talking this place, now that I've told you what happened, imagine the fucking blood in this fucking place. Oh man. From the shotguns, from the beating, the spatter from the stabbing in the heart, he was stabbed in the heart, blood gushing everywhere.

And his face is like wild. If you've been, if you, anybody punched in the mouth, like that's a lot of blood. The mouth is completely open at this point Yeah, that's way more blood. It's so much fucking blood. It's just pouring. He's got no jaw Then his chest it's horrifying. So then 830 in the morning Apparently whoever did this slipped away or whatever 830 in the morning Robbins woken up by the phone goes goes in there, finds them with the sheet over him. So somebody made sure to put a sheet on them, finds them, wakes up Billy, they

call the cops and here we are where we started. The Lake County coroner, who by the way, later on will be the sheriff, which is fun. Yeah. Robert Mickey Babcock's Mickey Babcock. The coroner ran for sheriff? Yep. And they elected him. And they elected him. And they elected him, absolutely. Knows nothing about law. All right.

Who knows what he knows about? Well, the sheriff's in any elected position of sheriff. You don't have to know shit about anything. No? It's just whoever will vote for you. I guess, yeah, it's just, and that's, you're dealing mostly with money then, huh? Just budget and shit? Yeah, for the most part.

Unless there's a huge murder of a prominent citizen then you kind of have to be involved. So Mickey Babcock's the coroner is one of the first people on the scene and he saw that Bruce had been shot in the lower jaw and been beaten about the head and stabbed six times in the heart and he said it looks like Darlene one shot between the eyes. The sheriff, Lake County Sheriff Thomas Brown. He's got to show up for this Yeah, he said whoever did this was a person with a lot of hatred. No shit. That's a really great insight. Thank you You think sir? He said he pressed the shotgun right against her head and pulled the trigger. Oh This is a contact wound. This isn't pulled the trigger. This is a contact wound.

This isn't even close range. This is a fucking half inch away, kaboom, holy shit. Now there's gonna be different estimates in the time of death. The day after this happens, when it's in the newspaper, they're estimating the time of death at between two and three a.m., which by the way, to this day,

with 45 more years of science, they still do three-hour windows, not even an hour. So that's crazy. Then later on in the next couple days, that number will go away and it will be 1230 a.m., will be the time of death. Not 1232 something else, just 1230, which is again... again my estimation and I'm pretty good at this already because obviously Yeah, you have between 11 and 8 30 a.m. That's the window. That's you know We know it happened. She got home at 11 and they found her at 8 30. That's what with with no science. We can come up with that Bingo, we should run for sheriff. There we go. Got it

so they said the only other person in the house besides Robin was Billy and Bingo. We should run for sheriff. There we go. Got it. So they said the only other person in the house besides Robin was Billy and his bedroom was directly above his parents and then Robin's was next door to it and he said I fell asleep watching television, I went to bed and I didn't hear shit. Right above it. Right above it. Yeah, 10 feet away. Heard nothing.

How many, we've heard so many stories of gunshots in the night that people do not fucking here And there are I can't believe it happens. It's shocking, but it happens all the fucking time all the time Look at the Amityville story that whole thing. It was fucking gunshots that's got to be some sort of some sort of psychological thing that your body blocks it out because it knows its danger and Won't allow you like it's a protection danger and won't allow you, like it's a protection thing? It's gotta be. Or you heard it, but it's one of those things that's gone by the time you wake up.

So it might make you go, oh, and then you go, what was it? You look around, everything's quiet, and then you go back to sleep. You might not even remember that happened. I'm thinking. There's also the point of like people sleep through their crazy loud snoring Yeah, and alarms. I see for alarms all the time. I mean that's meant to wake you up But I mean gun a shotgun blast shot glass is a boom. I mean, that's so fucking deep, man It might actually be easier to wake up from like a 22 because it would be a higher pitch

Yeah, it's a pop rather than maybe the boom might be Yeah because it would be a higher pitch. Yeah, to pop rather than a boom. Maybe the boom might be almost soothing. Soothing? Yeah, exactly. It rocks you to, hopps little baby. Kaboom, there he is. He's down, we'll put him down now. Yeah.

When the bell breaks. So Kurt, that's fucking amazing. Kurt was in the back, they said, at the time when they found him. And it's kind of a common knowledge throughout the neighborhood that Kurt is kind of banished from the house for being a ne'er-do-well who won't join the army. So the police immediately were curious about a few things. Number one, how is it that the two children who were in the house immediately above the

bedroom didn't hear gunshot blasts, shotgun blasts. They said also if the murders were committed by an intruder, why didn't the family dog bark? It's a black lab. Why wouldn't the family dog have barked if it was an intruder and awakened the children? Either way, something should have woke the kids up. And also, why were all the guns in the house missing? Not a single gun is left? No,

they found out he had about six guns and they're all gone. Nothing else is taken, none of the money, the jewelry, nothing like that, just the guns. So they're like, huh, that is very fucking interesting. Whoever did this is well armed now. Now they're well armed and they think it probably was his own gun that did this to him too. So now Robin, they talked to her, she'd been out at a school dance that night and she came home and arrived home probably just before this went down, they said, a few little while before and she said she saw or heard nothing that night. So that's interesting. Then at one point while the police are

there, now they've called their family members, family members are on the way to to assist the kids here. Before the family members get there, Robin told a deputy that one of her brothers did this. Really? Yes, but didn't say which one. Now that's one story is that she didn't say which one, okay? But she told the cops that. Now Kurt, when he's interviewed, told the same story as Robin, that he found the bodies when they came out and got her, and the cops were there. Billy said he didn't hear anything either.

Now by the way, this is a very brilliant police officer here who said this, quote, whoever did it wanted them dead, very dead. Really? He was aiming for faces and shit. He took a pause and then said, very dead. Not just a little bit. Not just a little dead. You know what? You're right very is a dumb word This guy used it is the only reason why? Holy shit so

They go through like we said not a robbery whatever by the next day like we said also 1230 a.m. Is the time of death not between 2 and 3 a.m Now they go outside and find the cars, Bruce's car's exterior is covered in blood. There's blood all over it. Really? And when they go in and when they turn the car on, the windshield wipers are in full blast on mode.

They're cranked on, nobody turned them off, which is crazy because if you live in a cold environment, you know turn the fucking windshield wipers off before the car because otherwise if it freezes and they come on, you'll burn your motor out and that costs a lot of money. That's if you grew up poor in the Northeast, you know that. Never do that.

So the windshield wipers are going like crazy and they're like interesting, very, very interesting. The windshield wipers are going like crazy because when Bruce came home last night, it was not raining. Bruce would never have had them on, especially not that hot. Wouldn't have had them on.

There was a massive thunderstorm that night, and that's why they think maybe the thunderclaps are why the kids didn't hear stuff. But that didn't break out till 3 a.m. They looked at the radar stuff. It didn't happen till 3 a.m. over Libertyville the radar stuff. It didn't happen till 3 a.m. over Libertyville. So this car had to be driven after 3 a.m. Otherwise there's no reason for the windshield wipers

to be on full blast. So that's interesting. Now the crazy part is they're talking to the kids and Robin says that they really wanna talk more to Robin. Right as that's happening, family members show up, grab the kids, tell them to shut the fuck fuck up don't say a word to these cops and they have lawyers on the phone with all the kids yeah they have lawyer the kids have lawyers and are being taken over this is a wealthy family you can't push the kids

around because the relatives will take them so family comes in tells them to fucking dummy up and get some lawyers and they because they said well at least let us let us give them a polygraph test. And they said, fuck no. No. Not happening. They've been through enough, basically. You're not going to interrogate them.

The Billy's lawyer that they get is Louis G. Garippo, who was the judge on the John Wayne Gacy murder trial. Is that right? Yes. He's the judge that sentenced Gacy. He is Billy's lawyer. He's defending a child. Yes, against no charges, by the way.

Yeah, it's nothing. Yeah, for pooping in his pants and doing a fire alarm. So after this, they say that they take Billy and he's living with a family member and is in school, is what he would say the next day. Now, for Robin, they get Dan Webb, who's the former head of the Illinois Department of Law Enforcement. They know some wealthy or some very powerful people in law.

Yeah, they have money. And this lawyer said, I feel it inappropriate to discuss any family matters because of the age and circumstances of Robin. And they get a lawyer named Jim Bartucci for Kurt who just says, quote, I can't say anything. I got nothing for you. I'm Italian, I don't say nothing, I'm sorry. I can't tell you, it's a secret, I don't know. Yeah, I can't tell you none about Kurt.

Tell you later. So what about Robin's statement here? That's the big one. Yeah, that one of my brothers did this. Why would she say that? One of the cops says that she said which brother did it too. Oh. A few of the cops said she wouldn't say which brother

before we got a brother out of her. The family came. One of the cops said she said Kurt killed her parents. My brother Kurt did it, she said. So they're like, okay, that's interesting. We'd love to talk to him, but he's lawyered up now. We can't talk to him. Basically, once somebody's lawyered up,

you can either arrest them or shut the fuck up. Those are your options. Talking to them isn't an option anymore. So they said that she felt her brother had committed the murders, and that's what it was. So one of the Lake County coroner Babcox reported that she referred to Kurt. So the current coroner, future sheriff reported that she referred to Kurt. So the current coroner, future sheriff

says that she said Kurt. I bet my career on it. Bet my career. I'll fucking run for office on it. It's gonna be my campaign slogan. She said Kurt. Everybody knows what you mean. Now a theory advanced is that the thunderclaps could have obscured the sounds of the shotgun. But the they're saying but they're the you know the time of death is set now at 1230 a.m. storm didn't start till three so how the fuck does that work. One of the investigators here when asked about that he said that would be amazing luck huh like in a sarcastic way.

So and he said he thinks it happened one or two hours before the storm broke so not possible anyway so right now the three kids are the Prime suspects all three of them. Yeah, all three of them. Absolutely in the brief statements They say they hadn't really heard anything about it and nothing about thunderstorms or anything like that. So Reaction here. This is a friend of Kurt's that said, quote, this was like the worst crime we ever had in Libertyville. Yeah. Was it like that?

Bra. Yeah. This was like awful, man. This was like real bad. This is like very bad. He said, I'll never forget my best friend calling me the next morning telling me what happened and I thought, oh my God, what the hell did Kurt and Billy do? Everybody felt that. Really? These are both ne'er-do-well fuck-ups.

Two days after the murders, okay, this is June 7th, 8th, right in that time period, Kurt calls the sheriff's office. Oh. Not to say he'd like to make a statement or help out with the investigation anyway, to ask whether, hey, I know you guys have everything in custody, can I have my mom's 73 Cadillac back? Because I'd like to drive that.

I think it's fucking badass. It's pretty mint, it's huge and... It's very long and plushy. I'm gonna fuck a chick in the back of it, that's what I'm saying. It's like riding on a pillow. Yeah, and on top of that he said, and if I could have that, could I also get an increase

in my allowance as well from the money I get from people? And is it possible I can go to California for a while? Maybe to move there. What do you think? A lake of rays, a sick car, and a vacation. So he's a murder suspect asking, may I have the means to flee? And then can I flee, actually, and go to a state that's 1,500 miles away? Will you give me the money and the wheels to get there, please?

And they said, you can't do any of those things. You're a murder suspect at this point. So the money, who gets the money? What's their wills all about? So they left the entire $3 million estate to the three kids to split even. Not to Robin's horses. In their will. All of them to Robin's horses and a very special gas station employee that Bruce took a shine

to. The best painter this side of the Mississippi. Best damn pumper they got over there. He's been with them since the beginning. So the Wills placed the estate in a trust with Lake Forest Bank to be divided equally between the children when they reached 21, which none of them have yet. Oh no! They were also the sole beneficiaries of $900,000 in life insurance of their parents as well.

Now that's why they had to call. He wanted to get a raise from the trust of the bank because the bank controls everything. So he was trying to get that from the bank, but he was trying to get the Cadillac and permission to go to California from the police. Now, right after- Look at that caddy with that big 400 in it.

I need it, it's so, the two-tone paint, it's hot. So cushy leather seats. So Robin and Billy, the kids are all gonna go their separate ways here. Within a few days, Robin and Billy are each gonna be in psychiatric hospitals. Really? Yes, they're sent there.

Each of them spend two months in a psychiatric facility. Robin and Billy. Then went to live with relatives around. Kurt moved in with a friend in another town, but at that point he's still seen around Libertyville all the time and shit like that. He's just hanging out though. Didn't have to go to a hospital or anything.

They said that, yeah, they admitted Billy to the River Edge Hospital in Forest Park two weeks after the murders. The one doctor who saw him first said he had become extremely withdrawn, very agitated, speaking in a paranoid way, speaking in discontinuous speech, staring off into space and not manageable at the relative's home. No. He's all fucking PTSD'd out, sounds like. So that's not good.

This is going to ruin the tour. This is going to ruin the tour. What tour? We talked about this, by the way. That guy knew who Justin Timberlake was. If you know cops, cops will especially say they don't know who you are. You could be Jack Nicholson.

They go, I don't know, never saw anything you've been in. What was the last thing you were in? Never heard of you. It could be the most famous person you could think of, and they would say they never heard of you. First successful movie, was it? I don't know. Because if they say they heard of you,

now they have to do you a favor. Because now they're going to try to ask for one. So that guy's full of shit. We looked it up, Timberlake's done how many Super Bowls? All that guy's alive. He's been at more Super Bowl halftime shows. And just recently, he was at one. Just recently, and maybe the most famous one

where he exposed a woman's tit on TV. That guy knows. He's got it. He knows what's up. Even if that cop's 26, that thing happened 15 years ago, it was everything. You were at your parents' house and you saw Genentex and knocked it off. Your mom covered your eyes up. Now an insurance company which held policies on the house hired a security firm to guard

the vacant house. Oh, they have armed guards? Yeah. Yeah, vacant house. Oh, armed guards, yeah. Yeah, they have literally guards, security guards. On the morning of Tuesday, June 24th, one of the guards was patrolling the yard and was clubbed unconscious by someone who snuck up behind him. What?

He woke up an hour later with a headache and a fucking lump on his head. And yeah, he did like Omar, like where's my man? He's sleeping an hour later with a headache and a fucking lump on his head. And yeah, he did like Omar, like where's my man? He's sleeping. He did one of those. Yeah. And so they don't know what's going on. Did somebody came, come back to get evidence or something to clean the place out? But at that point, um, we believe that Robin and Billy are in the hospital. Yeah. So who knows here.

Anyway, the cops are suspicious about this because they heard about all these family troubles from everybody, but the same neighbors that are telling the cops about family troubles are also saying that's not that abnormal. Every family's like that. Yeah, yeah. One neighbor said they weren't all so different. Come out here, a lot of people around here are like that.

Just because they live in a nice house And stay married doesn't mean everyone doesn't hate each other basically so They're looking for evidence divers They get to search all the creeks the ponds near the family home because they don't have a murder They're looking for a gun and a knife to the murder weapon all right looking for any evidence. They could find Evidence of cleaning up blood stuff from someone who was covered in blood maybe. They searched several gravel pits near there and the nearby De Plaine River, or Death Plains I think they actually

call it. Interesting. And Des Moines and them should fight to the death to figure out how that works. One of you has to burn your town down. Whoever wins gets to burn the other person's down down. That's how it works, yeah. They're trying to come up with the guns, missing guns, murder weapons, anything. They're looking into the victim's backgrounds,

trying to establish a motive outside of the kids possibly. Could it be somebody else that did this? Why, basically. He runs gas, unless you're mad at him for something that happened at a gas station, you're not gonna be mad at him. and she hangs out with ladies and plays bridge right some unical stores Got a beef with him over two cents cheaper gas. Yeah, this motherfucker lowering the price He's selling diesel over there that motherfucker

So July 21st 1980 they do a coroner's grand jury inquiry And this is kind of a pre, this is they sit everybody down and get all the evidence on the table and put people under oath and make them testify about, get their statements on the record. So now, yeah, there's a trial later on, now your statements locked in and if you disagree, they charge you with perjury. So it's one of those. So this is the inquiry here. They bring all three of the children,

Billy, Kurt, and Robin, to talk about this. All three invoke their Fifth Amendment right. All three take the fifth, which if they have lawyers, they're gonna tell them to do that. And they refused everything there. They wouldn't do anything to say a word. So a few months go by and there's still no progress. Nothing. The Lake County Sheriff here again, brilliant,

said quote, it was a hate killing as opposed to one of those love killings that they have so often. It was a hate killing. Crumb of passion. The deputy fire chief here said, we don't see anything immediate. We have a couple of avenues we're pursuing. But they said the investigation is stalled. Why the, oh, he's the first deputy chief, not the fire chief. I apologize.

I was going to say, why the fire chief's involved in a homicide investigation? I have no fucking idea. An area of blame around, right? Where's the game working? Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't burned. Nobody was burned to death. So they said that they're not, there's multiple questions here.

Obviously, the kids not hearing shit. The investigators say that they can't prove anything at this point. And when they don't say, I invoke my fifth amendment right, when they have to say the like that whole on the grounds that it may incriminate myself. That part, like, in an investigation about your two murdered parents, you might incriminate yourself? What the fuck? You might incriminate yourself.

Yeah. That looks so bad. Anytime anybody takes the fifth, it looks bad, but the judge gives special jury instructions that somebody taking the fifth is their constitutional right and you can't hold it against them for doing it. So that hopefully helps. But it against them for doing it. So that hopefully helps.

But it's still in their brains. Yeah. The jury still goes back there and goes, I'd have just said some shit if I didn't do it. So people say, but legally it's the best thing to do, I guess. They will not deny the police, by the way, that the investigation and the focus of the investigation is on the kids. They said, because at this point, they were the only ones there. And one of the reporters asked the cop,

something about them being asleep, and he said, if they were asleep. But a savage murder like that, where two people are shot, and then a man is stabbed because the shot didn't do it, and the people that are capable of doing that are gonna leave three children that possibly could have witnessed it, you know what I mean?

They don't know that those kids didn't see anything. No, well unless it's like, you know, Bruce owes somebody shitloads of money and they came in just to do the job. Even then, none of it, doesn't make a lot of sense here. And then if you owe the shitload of money, now you're not gonna get that money. No, and if it was like maybe Darlene's got a boyfriend and why would he shoot her in the face then that doesn't make any sense

So there's a lot of a lot of things here October 1980 though. They get a small break in this case there is a surveyor out in out in the river here and They find some shit in the river here and they find some shit in the river. They find in about three feet of water, about 30 feet from shore, they find some bags, some plastic bags. That's a good throw. Yeah, sheriff's welts from a bridge up above, that's why.

Okay, yeah. Yeah, sheriff's deputies, they all come out there, they have 10 different divers going and they use magnets and shovels and all this shit. They found about a half a dozen unfired shotgun shells, clothing, a woman's watch, a purse, which they know is Darlene's, number one, because it has her initials on it, and number two, it has her driver's license inside of it. That'll do it. And also costume jewelry that had her initials on it as well. The guy who found

the wallet said that's what I saw. That's what I saw the name Darlene Rouse. And he said he knew obviously that he found the deal here. They also find a 16 gauge shotgun and two spent shotgun shells. Yep. That's something. The said that they will, they end up finding more guns as well too. There's all the missing guns from the house are there in addition to this shotgun, which they think may be the murder weapon, but they're never able to conclusively, scientifically, ballistically link it to the murders. That's why Omar favored them. So they said in one of the few developments here, this is in the Des Plaines River, that's

where they found it here. They said that farther downstream from the guns were the two plastic bags with Darlene's purse and jewelry and all that kind of crap in it. So they said that this is insane. One of the relatives said, I know one thing, whoever did it was vicious and calculating. They may have even committed the perfect crime. So far they have. Nobody knows. So the sheriff turns the weapons over to the lab for analysis and they find they don't find what what happens to what one of the weapons belongs to Billy though. It's actually Billy's gun. But it might be

kept with his dad's stuff. So probably they don't know all the other items Including the shotgun that they thought were the murder weapon everything has been completely wiped clean of fingerprints. Oh There's not a fingerprint on any one of these guns anywhere So that's that's interesting that shows they've definitely been wiped on purpose. That's somebody did that shit on purpose I got yeah, I never wiped one of mine Right why would you it's yeah, I never wiped one of mine. Never. Right? It's mine. Why would you?

It's, yeah, you don't mind your fingerprints being on there. You're not planning on murdering anyone with it. Right. So the site where they found, where they found everything was about four miles from the home, by the way, and about 900 feet from a bridge over the river at Illinois Highway 60. Someone threw it off the bridge and it floated down a little bit and got caught in a rock or something. That's where it's there. Now, they uncover a witness at this point.

Once they make this public, a witness steps forward, saying they saw Bruce Rouse's car on the bridge the night of the murders. Oh boy. They said someone got out. By the way, this isn't like a fucking thunderstorm. Yeah. Someone, imagine like looking up at a bridge and seeing a man get out with the wind blowing his hair and rain pouring down lightning Lightning lighting up the sky as he stands up there like a madman with bags throwing them off forever

Holy shit, that's fucking spooky and amazing. That's a horror movie. That is a horror movie. And they saw them toss something into the water and the bags went downstream, and that's where they were found by the surveying team. Now this connects to the windshield wiper theory. Right, because they were on. Yeah, that Bruce had no need to have them on when he drove home, but the killer might have had them on

while driving through the rain four miles to throw guns into a fucking river. By the way, the knife has never been found. The killer might have had them on while driving through the rain four miles to throw guns into a fucking river By the way, the knife has never been found The knife is not with everything can't find they searched every like I said magnets this that everything trying to find the knife never Found it. It's in there Somewhere it's got to be right and they never are able to Figure out who was the person on all they saw was like the outline of a person. That's it, that's all they saw.

So the police keep telling the papers too that children are suspects but we can't talk to them. Children are suspects but we can't talk to them. And they said they're not actively pursuing any other suspects. And basically they're saying until one of the kids decides to fucking talk, there's nothing we can do. Because we have no physical evidence

and they won't say shit. So, you know, whatever. November of 1980, this is in the Muncie Evening News. This is a very over dramatic newspaper account of how the house is sitting right now. It's hilarious and I had to put this in here. Okay, the twisted narrow two story Rouse house now seems to be a new made haunted house.

No one answers the doorbell. They're all fucking dead, what do you want? No one answers the doorbell. Nobody's in there. Nobody's home, stupid. Who do you want to answer? Oh, that's what I mean. I'd be terrified of someone. Who the fuck are you and why are you here? Why are you here?

But anyone who cares to gain a fair knowledge of its interior simply by walking around it and looking through the picture windows, there's a newspaper lying on the floor beside the dining room table as if someone had brushed against it and neglected to pick it up. Probably did. Next to the newspaper is a chain necklace apparently abandoned. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace.

It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace.

It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. It's a chain necklace. dining room table, as if someone had brushed against it and neglected to pick it up. Next to the newspaper is a chain necklace, apparently abandoned. Some of the lights still burn over the slick, modernistic furniture. No one has been there, it appears, for a long time. Yeah, about, since what, June 5th-ish or 6th-ish? Maybe none of the Rouses will be back. The house is paneled in grey with a spacious lawn

in front and a timbered ravine close by. About 10 to 20 feet behind the house is a barn-like structure. Everywhere else says it's 100 yards behind the house, and this person says 10 to 20 feet. That's close as shit for a place on seven acres. That seems like you'd put it 100 yards away. Where Kurtz has lived since he started arguing with his parents about joining the army. It seems like you'd put it 100 yards away, where Kurtz has lived since he started arguing with his parents about joining the Army. Now, Billy ends up in Florida by the next year.

He loves Florida, and that's where he's gonna run away to. And cops are trying to keep track of where everybody is, and he ends up in Florida, because they're gonna get some money that we're gonna talk about in a second. October 1981, the house has been sold, and now it's about to be resold. A guy here that bought it, Mark DeFleur, he bought the 14 room, 7.2 acre home less than a year after the murders took place, but a few months later he's already selling it here.

He purchased the home in late spring and he bought the home so his 13 year old daughter could have a horse. He heard, yeah. Wow. Spoiled motherfucker. Also on the estates are stables and heated and closed swimming pool, sauna, coach house. This guy said that we never moved into the house though

and he has to sell it because quote, my daughter rebelled. Oh Sure, I don't know Don't she doesn't like horses anymore or doesn't want to be in a murder house. I'm not sure which one He said I need this place like a hole in the head. Do you have to say that here? Why why would he do really of all things to say? Come on, man why does everybody everybody I think it's like I don't know if it's like subconscious whatever your subconscious

is saying just avoid saying that you have to say it like if before we go on like a live news thing and they go no cursing and we gosh that's all we're gonna say is fuck now all these int intrusive thoughts. Like a hole in the head, sir. Like a hole in the head. You fucking idiot. I shouldn't have bought it. I don't have a brain. I feel like half my brains are missing today.

It's weird. My daughter now, it's like a knife in the heart. It's just like a knife right to the heart. You know what I mean? Like six of them actually. Like just repeatedly being stabbed in the heart. By the like a knife right to the heart you know what I mean like six of them actually like just repeatedly being stabbed in the heart. By the way my head's pounding like I've been clubbed over the head with a shotgun you got any Advil on you? That's why I'm wondering that's why I put this in here because I'm like this is

ridiculous. He said it was strictly a business deal I bought a piece of property at what I thought was a good price and I thought we'd move there, but I changed my mind. So they listed the house and that's how it's going to go. Now, okay, December, 1981. The kids are going to get insurance money. It's coming. Yep.

The three children of the couple here will receive nearly $250,000 each. Oh my. In 81. In an out of court settlement with an insurance company that initially refused to pay because they said that they're possible murder suspects. Yeah, there was a murder. Now a year and a half has gone by,

and the judge says, okay, well, there is no case, and you know, you gotta pay money out at some point. You've got a contract to fulfill. Yeah this is the American United Insurance Company and this was in federal court. The insurance company had refused to pay off the $900,000 and there's that. Now, January 15th, 1982 is when they actually

get their money I guess, because that's when the settlement happens here now the house Okay at first it was you know guarded and cordoned off with police tape Then it was sold when they realized there's no more evidence. They're gonna get out of the house The new owners ended up buying it and like we said They're gonna sell it again and we found out who they sell it to apparently they sold it to guys in the Chicago mafia Yes, and we know that because they opened a gambling casino in the house they opened a casino They had two cocktail lounges in it and ballet parking. They made it into like a fancy fucking

Nightclub is what they did in the middle of a neighborhood because it was out in the middle of nowhere by itself Seven eight. Yes, let's fucking build the Copa it had blackjack and craps tables And it was a big fucking business. Yeah, it boomed Then in May of 82 a bookmaker named Robert Plummer was strangled and beaten to death in the stairway of the house Oh, no Yes was strangled and beaten to death in the stairway of the house. Oh no. Yes, his body was found a week later in the trunk of his wife's car parked at the Holiday Inn. Holy shit.

Mob figures Rocco, Ernest and Felice, and a Salvatore De Laurentiis who ran the casino are gonna be charged with the murder, and they end up being acquitted. How? Of the murder. Oh my God. Because there's no, and convicted of racketeering. with the murder and they end up being acquitted of the murder. How? Oh my god.

Because there's no proof, but a convicted of racketeering. This is when everybody in the area starts calling it Murder Mansion. Now it's just Murder Mansion because within two years there's been three people murdered in this fucking house. A completely unrelated one of them. Totally, but it's now a cursed house at this point. Obviously the mob has been affected by the curse Yeah, it's they would have never turned violent if it wasn't for that curse

The guy who just William Jehada describes the killing actually he's a mob bookmaker who turned informant and He said I heard a rhythmical Metallic staccato sound it lasted perhaps three seconds. He said the last words he heard Plummer yell were, oh my God, what was that? And then he was beaten to death. He said that he and Plummer arrived at 10 a.m. at the mansion in separate cars. And he said at that point, Infelice was wearing a pair of golfing gloves, which isn't normal. Infelice usually only wear one. He's got a pair of a pair of, hey, what are you going to do here? Why you got the right one on, bud?

What's going on? The other guy, Jehota, the performance said that in Felice instructed him to take plumber inside of the mansion to lure him upstairs and then keep on walking. Don't look back. Yeah. So this Jehota guy said he said no he said he didn't want to get too close to the smell of blood but this guy said ah you'll be fine you won't be a part of it don't worry about it. Very little blood. So this

Jehovah guy said I was about halfway up the stairs and that's when I heard a loud bang similar to a door slamming I was about to turn around and I heard Bob exclaim oh my god what was that I saw a flash of light and Plummer pinned to the wall. A man had him pinned. But he never says which man, that's why they get, he's three feet away and he says, I don't know which one, I don't know what happened. It was this man, man.

And they get away with the murder like that. So yeah, that's a big fucking deal. Anyway, November 1982, there's a new sheriff in town. Literally. Is this the coroner? Literally, Mickey Babcock has been elected sheriff of the town saying that his number one thing to do is to look into this murder case and figure out who did it.

Okay, priority one. That's that, priority one. They have a new approach as time goes by. They're like, okay, Robin was willing to talk at the scene before people came and told her not to. So what if we, it's been some time has passed, what if we do a little end around with Robin and see if we can get her to testify before the grand jury

under a grant of immunity and see if she'll fucking do it. See if she'll tell us something, if she has immunity to this. Zero punishment for anything if you just solve this for us. She could literally say, I did it, I did all of it. And they'd have to go, okay, well, I guess, have a good day, and let her go.

Yep, she could absolutely do that. So they said, she seems like a nice kid, and from everything they've heard from everybody, they said, it's gonna be a matter of time before her conscience is gonna eat her alive, and she's gonna fucking come forward and tell us. And this is late 82 into 83, and they said, this is the way we're gonna do it.

We're gonna slowly work on Rob, and over the course of 93 here, and hopefully maybe by next year, we can get her in here. 83, you mean? 83 yes I mean 83 so they're gonna do that but August 31st 1983 Robin is driving in Racine, Wisconsin when her car smashes into a utility pole and she's killed. Oh no! Dead as a fucking doornail. The family's cursed, fuck the house. This

house has long tentacles or this shit is fucking cursed. She hit a pole in Racine? Another vehicle had swerved into her lane and she swerved to avoid hitting him head on and pow in a pole. And that was that. So she is pronounced dead at the scene. Wow. That's that for her. So now they're like, fuck, now what? What are we gonna do now? Well, now Kurt moves away.

Kurt takes his inheritance, or his insurance money, and he moves to Northern California, gets married, and purchases a plot of land outside San Francisco. Smart move. That's his, yeah, I mean, for business-wise, yeah, it's gonna be good later on. He lives in a trailer on 75 acres he bought.

I can't tell if that's awesome. No, that's not awesome. No, that's not, right? No, that's just a lonely, yeah, that's living like a hobo, not even a hillbilly. Right, that's just a lonely. Yeah. Yeah, that's living like a like a like a hillbill like a hobo not even a hillbilly That's that's not good. That's living like Charles Manson depending on the quality of no, it sucks. It sucks Yeah, yeah, it's not good 75 acres to yourself great. It's cool. Yeah

Trailer in the middle of a nice house. Great. Go. Let's let's attach a house to the ground here and let's work on that Yeah, let's attach a house to the ground here and let's work on that. Yeah, let's take some footers. Shit, so Billy ended up drifting down to Key West, Florida, where he became known as a big spender at the bars because he has this inheritance to piss away. Billy, this isn't going to last forever. Nope, he attracts a group of ne'er-do-well scumbags who hang out with him, spend his money, drink his booze.

Shit. All that sort of shit. In October of 1984, Halloween night of 1984, Billy's playing chess. Okay. With a man. Okay, now chess normally isn't a game, like I've seen guys in the park

in New York City playing chess. Nobody ever gets mad and yells and screams nobody says a word usually they don't say shit when somebody wins they kind of nod to each other and that guy gets up another guy sits down it's not a real boisterous game yeah Billy gets in an argument during a chess game you touched it you got gotta move it motherfucker. You took your finger off it, it stays! It stays! That rookie's my meat baby! So, he is in an, not over a poker game, this isn't the old west during a chess game, and

he fucking stabs a man. Over a chess match. Yeah, he's 20 years old, he stabbed Scott Gilliam, 26 year old stabbed him in the abdomen during a dispute over a check This is the world's first chest stabbing ever that's ever happened Yeah, they said that Gilliam suffered permanent injury and disfigurement when he was slashed with a three-inch blade They said that our position is that this case they because they called the Lake County people in Illinois and they were like, hey, isn't this the guy with the dead parents?

And they said, case is still open. If he says anything, let us know. Rouse in a taped interview, Billy admits stabbing the guy and said he acted in self-defense because the guy tried to attack him with a pool cue. Where are they playing chess? What, they brought a pool cue to a chess match? Where are they playing chess in a dive bar?

What the fuck is going on in this place? That's a wild choice. Holy fucking shit, man. Apparently, yeah, Rouse was arrested at his hotel where he went back to, and that's fucking insane. They ask the cops in Illinois, does this make you think he's more guilty now or anything? And they said, I'm not sure that this sheds any light

on our homicide up here. Yeah, who knows what he's done over the last five years. Has he been getting shit faced in Florida and turned himself into a stabber now? We don't know. We don't know. And also this is at a bar with a pool cue. I mean, this isn't your parents cold blooded in a bed.

That would be, that's different. So he is sentenced to, you sir may fuck off, 60 days in jail and fined a thousand dollars for this. What? It is, in Florida, you know, it's stabbing someone in a bar is considered a minor, I think it's a misdemeanor down there, right? He had a pool cue, that drops it down to self-defense At least a little malice a little bit 1988 coroner slash sheriff Babcock's here. He's no longer sheriff or coroner Oh, he's actually about to drop dead and he does an interview and says quote This is about the whole you know, Bruce and Darl Darlene murder yeah the cops really screwed this one up he said they should have

separated the three kids right away before they got the chance to get together now the big-time lawyers have moved in there's three million dollars here and everybody wants a piece of it this thing could drag on for years which makes sense June of 1990 comes around, 10 year anniversary. Wow. And the newspapers all do a 10 year anniversary thing and Lake County authorities regard the case as dormant at this point.

That's the same way to say cold. Yeah, they said no investigators assigned to it and unless the leads come up, they really don't have anything more to do. It's hibernating's you know it's resting. We rest it. They said the homicide is in the forefront of our minds but nothing's changed to give us anything new to go on. Tough shit. 1990 the sheriff's race comes around here. Oh boy. And politics gets involved. One guy does a news conference in front of the house. What?

That's what he's doing. He does it in front of the house and says, Today, this house represents the focal point of the failure of law enforcement in this community, the flagrant openness of organized crime, and as reported by the FBI, how some officials are doing the bidding of the law offenders. Meaning- Did you all get off my lawn? I'm trying to have a party. Yeah, where are those people inside going?

What the hell's going on out there? What are you doing? Get off my lawn. It's my daughter's third birthday. People are going to be here soon. Fuck off. Get the hell out of here. So yeah, they're talking about how

the FBI made deals with mobsters to try to convict other mobsters in that particular house. But he's saying this house is just as it all a murder they can't solve. Scourge of this society. Mobsters doing shit right under their noses.

Now, Billy's got a new life in Florida down. Oh, he's out of jail now. Oh, yeah, he's only didn't do much time. He's fine. He got a Florida driver's license. He married a woman named Frances Dobbins after she got divorced from her first husband. He helds down a construction job for a while. Yeah. And at age 21, he bought a white ranch home at 1122 Petronia Street for $100,000. Wow. Yeah, he spends 100 grand and he's got a new house.

He's lying. So he's ready to go here. Yeah, he's got that. In addition to that, neighbors said he spent at least $75,000 more adding to the house. Oh. He installed a glassed-in Jacuzzi room. That's a 21-year-old thing touzzi room And also I need indoor water stuff yeah used to it I

Wanted to koozie where the where the skaters can't bite me skaters can't buy me I could put the air conditioning on the time Then outdoor deck a second floor also he put on the house Then outdoor deck a second floor also he put on the house Okay Connected by a wooden spiral staircase wrapped around a tree trunk this fucking guy went The hubris on this guy jungle book. What are the fuck are you doing? I need a real live tree house the whole time though. He drinks like a monster really Trinks like a lot monster always fighting with his wife here. They have a kid, then another kid,

and then she kicks him out in 1991. Kicked him out, so. Kicked him out, done. Out of his own house. Out of his own house, yeah. Has to bought his parents weird money there. So he was behind on property taxes and unable to repay liens on his home.

So they were forced to sell the house in late 1991 for $120,000, which is only 20 more than they paid for it. They lost a lot. Yeah, they lost a bunch. Yeah, the guy who bought it, his name is Perk Larson. Perk, P-E-R-K, Perk. By the way, Billy had a son named Billy Jr., of course. What?

Now Billy Jr. Yeah, I guess they also said Billy was violent and with his wife. One night he threatened Francis with a gun as well. That's not good. So they're going to separate and all that. Now when when perk Larson bought the house He he said the house When he got there, he said it looked like a war zone. Yeah, he said an engine block sat in the back That's that's the trash Obviously when you just need engine blocks hanging from the tree sitting on the patio

And two of the glass walls to the jacuzzi room were smashed. Yeah, that's sounds like a Billy right there. Enclosed it just to break it. All right. Just to break it. At the closing, when Billy showed up to collect his share of the money, his wife served him with divorce papers. As if that wasn't a low enough day. Perk Larson said, I was walking out when I saw him in a chair with a piece of paper in his hands. I don't know if it was the divorce summons or the check, but he looked like his best puppy dog had died. Holy shit. Three weeks after the divorce was completed in March 1992. he married again, oh his wife married again,

I'm sorry. His wife married again, so she had that going for a while. She was, yeah, she had somebody lined up. Yup, and moved away with the children to North Florida and left them there. Oh no. Probably Jacksonville. Now, I'm sure, some Tallahassee. 1995, they reopened the case.

Okay. The police up there reopen it. Okay, so they're like, where is everybody? They find out Kurt is in California. Billy has blown through all of his money, $300,000, he's gone through all of it. He is at this moment living on what is called in the newspaper a derelict boat. Oh no. He's living on a shitty houseboat that is un-sea-worthy. Just barely floats. It's probably on the ground. No, it's floating.

It's in the water, but it can't go anywhere. It can't go anywhere. Yeah, it's like the Captain Ron ship before they fixed it up. It's not gonna work, but worse, it's a shithole. Wow. I mean, all fucked up. It's anchored in Key West, and they even fly fly a skull and crossbones flag from it, of course

too, because they are trash. So at that point, he's living with people. They're like crashing there, a bunch of scumbags that he drinks with. All he does every day is drink Bush Light, they said, by the way, beer. Just drinks Bush Light beer all day long. Now there's a, in May of 95, there's a bank robbery in Florida. What the fuck do we care about that, right? Well, it's right around that time,

a Chicago television reporter had just finished reading about the Rouse case in a book written by Chicago Tribune reporters called Getting Away With Murder. In 91, that was written, because it's more than 10 years later. So a TV reporter called the sergeant and asked for an update. The sergeant Chuck Fagan said that he happened to have the Rouse file open on his desk when the call came in.

Oh. Because they had just reopened it, unbeknownst to everybody else. He said that he'd been reviewing it as a matter of routine, looking for new angles. And he had some time, he'd look at that and see if he could figure anything out. He was asked if the case was closed and he said, by no means, absolutely not. He said he's carried a photo of William with him for 15 years. Really?

Yes. So the reporter calling prompted this Chuck Fagan to call the Key West Police Department to let him know of their suspicions about Billy and say, if you guys ever come up with anything on him, please let us know. So they go, as a matter of fact, we got him right here right now. He's sitting here. He's fucking sitting here, which is wild. They said the police in Illinois said based on the review, which began wild. They said, the police in Illinois said, based on the review, which began in June of this year, a strong suspect emerged, William Rouse.

So at the time of the investigation here, he was in custody in Key West on a concealed weapons charge during a bank robbery. Oh, yeah, so members of the task force flew in to question him here. He's arrested on a charge of concealing a handgun used in a September 13th robbery of Barnett Bank of Key West.

The person charged with $4,500 is all they got out of it, by the way. That guy's name is Johnny Prescott, who lives on the boat with Billy. He's Billy's boat mate. And two other men also are charged who also live on the derelict boat. We have four guys that are splitting $4,500 on the risk of robbing a bank, wow.

Robbing a fucking bank. Then, I'm sorry, this was a couple weeks after they had robbed it before, because on September 1st they robbed it also and got $5,000, same branch. Yeah, idiots. So according to the cops here, Rouse and Prescott were arrested after the second holdup.

Prescott was nabbed as he was shaving off his beard, they caught him, to disguise himself, that's hilarious. And Rouse was picked up for concealing in shallow ocean water a handgun that was used by Prescott. Police said he admitted his part in the holdup, Billy did, and said quote, all I got was beer and vodka out of it. He didn't even get any fucking money. Oh Jesus. He's an actual alcoholic.

Yup. So there we go. Now Billy has had had this is not his first run in with the law since he's had problems with his wife. No. In the last year in 94 he was arrested on a drunk and driving act during a drunk and driving accident. So he plowed into somebody from 1992 to 1995 he basically was Ronnie Dobbs the David Cross character. Yes. They know everything that he does. They catch him all the time. He slammed his, he had a 72 Dodge, which was probably sweet as fuck. No, a car. Oh, they don't say what it was, but it's a some 72 Dodge. Could be anything. So he slammed his 72 Dodge into the chrome wall of a checkers restaurant, got out and ran

away, which is very a Ronnie Dobbs thing to do there. Just, I'm gone now, y'all can't catch me. And he just keeps running. Then also they picked him up on multiple charges of disorderly conduct, disorderly intoxication, selling marijuana, failure to appear in court, dealing stolen property, resisting arrest. The basic Florida resume is what he's got here. The basic derelict boat resume. The average Florida taxpayer.

Sorry, Florida. We're fucking around. This is where he said the comedy comes in with roasting. This is what you get. He even lost the part-time construction jobs he had. And, um, wow. Uh, he, in the days before he was arrested, he was shuttling between a morning job, picking up trash from a wind Dixie parking lot. Uh, and his, and then he, he would do that. He would do his daily trash pick up atinn-Dixie parking lot.

And then he would do that. He would do his daily trash pick up at the Winn-Dixie. Then he would pick up his beer for the day at Walmart. And then he would go back to his boat and drink beer and fall asleep in what the newspaper described as, quote, a filthy sleeping bag on the roach-infested plywood floor of a derelict houseboat. Oh my god. That's good writing right there.

You stacked that shit up like a pyramid. Filthy sleeping bag. Yep. They said he spent his days just drinking cases of bush beer on the front porch of this deal of this houseboat. Then he'd go to Red's Bar, which according to the newspaper is quote grungy by Key West standards, even by Key West standards. They said it's a hard rock home of $1.50 bush draughts

and frayed unshaven panhandlers. And they don't mean people from the panhandle, they mean people begging for money. They get money. This is where the homeless people drink. Wow, to get a dollar fifty to go have a bush. Yup. They said on the houseboat he fell in with a group of people who planned the bank robbery

which happened at 9 a.m. on September 1st when an armed man entered a Barnett bank branch, handed a gym bag to the teller and told her to fill it. He walked out a minute later with $5,000 in cash and bicycled away. Again, you know you're trash if you're going to rob a bank on a fucking bicycle. Your getaway car is a bike. Jesus Christ. That's sad shit. Fuck.

And police think Rouse's role was to ditch the weapon used in the robbery, which you'd go, wow, I'm surprised they can afford guns. Well, not so fast. It was a pellet gun. Nah, it wasn't a gun. It wasn't even a gun. The police suspected Rouse and his boatmates immediately because they're like, they're the biggest scumbags in the area.

I'm sure it was them. And one of them rented a water scooter along a nearby waterway about the time of the robbery. Like a jet ski? Yeah, so they could ditch the bike, hop in there and make an escape. All of them usually were scrounging up money for a half pint of vodka or a six pack of beer, and instead that night they were running up $100 takeout liquor tabs that day at Walmart. We want it all.

They're just gathering up everything they can. Usually they're at the fucking patio of a shithole, but right now they're Ubering booze to their house. They're doing door dash booze, fucking food and pick up some booze while you're on the way. Why you guys got such a windfall of cash? Yep, little strange. So then at 9 a.m. on September 13th,

the same robber walked up to the same teller at the same bank and got $4,900 because they ran out of fucking money. That's all it is. They ran out of money and they're like, well, I guess we'll, not let's rob a different bank in a different area. That bank worked, let's do that again.

So Detective Bill Larkin picked up Rouse outside of the Walgreens where they were buying booze. His buddies, including a man identified as the robber, were inside the store. He was hanging out outside finishing a cigarette and they came up and they were like, you a dipshit? Yeah, dipshit hands me on your back. Nice bike. Nice bike, dummy. So according to the cops down there, they said they were contacted by the Lake County authorities in Illinois and he said they were looking into the case again.

I knew he was in town. I was steps behind him and couldn't catch him. All of a sudden there he is popping up on this case. Oh, that's the guy I was looking for. Perfect. So at the request of the Illinois detectives, they interrogate Rouse in Key West about his parents slaying after his arrest here, which, oh my God, can you imagine if you're the guys up there working the case, you wouldn't go, you guys just handle it. You'd want to fucking interrogate him, not these people. You've been waiting to talk to this kid for 15 fucking years. Yeah, but look, I'm afraid of flying.

Wow. Yeah, I'm just lazy. I don't want to be down there. I like to fly. I'm drunk. So they said Rouse told how his parents were found dead in their bed but said he didn't know anything about who was responsible. He told them as a matter of fact, quote, I'd like to find out who killed them myself.

And they said what happened all your money by the way and he said I blew it. Yeah I was a kid. Shouldn't have given me that much money yeah it's bad. So will he give up any info we don't know. One of the investigators from Illinois said Billy hasn't given up too much in the past although he was highly suspected it's unlikely he'll give up much now. Now the cops from Illinois head down there. Yeah. They walk into the room with him and he says, quote, I expected you guys a long time ago. Hey there you are. Hey there you are, pals. When they met with

him he said that and then they, he said, quote, if I didn't want to talk to you I would have told you, I would quote, if I didn't want to talk to you, I would have told you, I would have, if I didn't want to talk to you, I would have told you, and I would have told you to get lost, and I would have got a lawyer like I did the first time. That's what he said. So they said their first goal was to obtain hair and blood samples from him, which I don't know

how that would be relevant because he lives in the house. But I guess just to establish cooperation or something. Because if it matches from the crime scene, that would mean nothing. Nothing at all. At all to any of that shit because he lived there. So he agreed. They were shocked.

They didn't expect that at all. They were like, okay. So they talked to him a little bit more and he said, yeah, I think about my parents' killings every day. He says, but I have a hard time remembering that night, real clear, you know what I mean? And they said, do you think about him every day?

Really, you think about the murder every day? And he says, yeah. Then there's a pause and he says, I think I really might have done it. Oh? And they're like, oh! You think you might have? You think you might have done it, all right.

Because they said the only other person who might have been able to correct the case possibly was Robin, because Kurt wasn't talking to anybody. And they said, holy shit. So they said, you wouldn't want to maybe undergo hypnosis or take a polygraph test or anything like that. And he said, all right, fuck it, yeah. I'll give it a shot.

Yeah. They put a videootape they video record this in 37 minutes he tells everybody exactly what happens less than an hour less 37 fucking minutes this is that's incredible yeah he said he was fed up with his mother's nagging he said whenever something went wrong he was always the guy to blame. Always my fault. Always my fault. They never blamed Robin for shit.

They said with me, they'd take my credit cards away. They never took her credit cards away. She'd spend more than they told her she was allowed to and she never got in trouble. So it's, why does Robin get to do it? Robin, Robin, Robin. And Billy said the night of his parents' murder, he got in a fight with his mother. Yeah. He said, I came home drunk and 15 came home hammered, pulled the car into the garage, you know, for the last time. And they argued about whether he was drunk.

And she said, quote, Yeah, don't worry about it. You're going to be shipped out to military school. I'm just over it you fucking moron that's what mom said to her I said to him and he said he got pissed off he went in the rec room and ate some mushrooms some you know yeah psilocybin mushrooms not just some button caps there that he was just some portobello's. He was working on it. Yeah, it was some baby bellas. Yeah. No, he goes in there, eats mushrooms, and said he's very angry.

And the more he sat there, the angrier he got. And he felt he had to just get rid of his mother. I've done mushrooms a bunch of times. Never got angry? Two hours into it, I couldn't even remember what the hell I was angry about beforehand. Because now I'm on mushrooms and it's awesome So then he drank some whiskey we were right I knew that before we didn't want to say anything and ate some of the mushrooms and said he quote

Simply decided I was gonna get rid of my mom wash down mushrooms with whiskey with whiskey I'm never doing that if that's that's a bad idea. That's a bad idea He said he went into the closet where his father kept his guns pull it pulled out the 16 gauge semi-automatic Shotgun and loaded it up He said he had envisioned stabbing his mother to death, but he wanted it would take too long He doesn't know how easy that would be that sounds complicated so he said this might be more instantaneous one shot put it right against her head and Shooter so he said that he be more instantaneous one shot put it right against her head and shoot her

So he said that he went toward his parents bedroom He paused outside for about 10 minutes He said he stood out there with the shotgun for about 10 minutes thinking about what he was about to do and If he should do it. He said then he opened the door. He went in they were both sleeping He said he quote took the 16, put it up to her head, and the trigger went off. No it didn't. Nope, you pulled it, that's not how that works. Talk about distancing language, holy fuck man.

So he did that, he said he didn't intend to kill his father. That was never the plan. The plan was kill mom. That was it. How mushroomed up was he? He thought dad was gonna sleep through that? Yeah, he said then Bruce woke up and he went, oh fuck, I'm standing here with a shotgun,

my mom's got half a head and my father's looking at me, I better shoot him too. So he said he turned the shotgun real quick, he said that his father quote, sat up real quick, looked at me, and the trigger went off again. No it didn't. Wow, this gun has great timing.

It only goes off when you're pointed right at someone's face it knows to go off. Wow he said that when he blew his father's lower jaw off and it didn't kill him he panicked at that point and started beating his head father on the head with the butt of the shotgun. He said I didn't want him in fucking misery so I grabbed the fucking knife and I stabbed him until he quit moving. Grabbed what knife? That means you brought a knife too. He brought it with him.

Yeah, because he thought about stabbing her at first, then he got the shotgun, so there was all that stuff. They said that, yeah, he said he couldn't bear the sight of his father writhing in pain, so that's why he was bludgeoning him, and then when that didn't work either, he had to go to the kitchen and grab a knife, and then he stabbed him six times. And he grabbed the rest of his father's guns along with the knife. He said he jumped into his father's car

Windshield wipers on high Drove onto a bridge over the Des Plaines River 15 he doesn't even have a fucking license yet 15 years years old. 15 and he operates like a fucking gangster. No shit. This is what like, you know, Chris and Snoop would do in Newire if Marlowe told him to kill people. They'd dump all the guns and... And he did this at 15 high on mushrooms and a bunch of whiskey. How the fuck?

And hash, don't mind. Yeah, right. He smoked too. Yep, he said he threw the items into the water just like that person saw and he said, my brother and sister had nothing to don't mind. Yeah, right, he smoked too. Yup, he said he threw the items into the water, just like that person saw, and he said, my brother and sister had nothing to do with this. Wow. Not a fucking thing, they didn't know about it, they didn't know anything. When he asked whether he was sorry if his parents were dead, he said, yes and no. That's fucking cold.

I'm surprised, at least he didn't shit his pants in here though. So he's come a long way He's certainly grown quite a bit Little bit. Yeah, he said that he was glad that he didn't have to deal with them anymore But he expressed regret because quote the whole thing really fucked my sister up and then she hit a pole man You ruined her life. She hit a pole and fucking died. So yeah, they have this all on videotape. Wow. And then he said, I asked him what he did with all the money and he said, I blew it.

Yeah. And they said, drinking? And he said, yeah. Amongst other things, yeah. Amongst whatever, just being a shithead. Just living in Florida, just doing my thing. Yeah, 300 grand doesn't go very far when you're 15, 16 years old.

No, he got it when he was 21, I think. That's when he moved down there. Two years, it was all gone. All gone, man. And that was much more money than that is now. So this is horrible. This is all in video tapes. He said it wasn't, he's doing this of his own free will.

The thing was, he was there one night, then they let him go, and then they brought him back again This was like the third day. They had talked to him So his lawyer is gonna have some fun with that as you can imagine a friend of his from Florida here Well, he's from California but lives in Florida now He they describe him as Alex Schmidt a Californian with a full body tattoo and a pierced tongue. This is 1995 So that was considered that's a peak. Yeah, considered the peak of freakdom this guy was at that point. And a fucking thing in his tongue.

Oh my god, Jesus, he loves oral sex. Chris Rock says he'll suck my dick. Oh my god. He says quote, I always knew he was a freak but but I never thought he was a killer about Billy a freak He said he was really really quiet. That's another friend He always acted like he was broke as the rest of us and by the end he was The first he flaunted his money then after the divorce and everything he didn't flaunt it anymore I didn't have it and then there was that now

Florida is gonna drop their charges having to do with the gun the bank robberies too so he's allowed to be extradited because I guess they have a rule where at that point where if you can't extradite someone if he's under there whatever so they have to drop it so he could do that. The next week he goes before a judge with a public defender and he's got long hair and a big goatee and all that kind of shit. He is first taken to when they take him back to Illinois, he's taken to the children's court because this happened when he was 15. Oh yeah. So the children's judge has to assign this case to adult court or they do it in children's court. But he's this 30 year old dirtbag who's

lived on a boat drinking bush for all this time and he's got long hair and a big goatee and he's standing in children's court which is just hilarious. Little fire truck. Oh my god. So his attorney opposed the transfer saying juvenile court would be able to offer psychological treatment and lengthy probation and they said yeah that's why we're trying him as an adult so we can put him in prison. We're going to try him as an adult? we're trying him as an adult so we can put him in prison. We're gonna try him as an adult

They're trying him as an adult. Yeah, do you think that's what he should be done? I don't know He was 15. He was a fucked up 15 year old. I don't think I don't think you can try that stuff That's tough, but the judge decided that he will be tried as an adult. Oh my god He said it's in the best interest of the defendant and the public that the transfer occur. I think the public, maybe not the defendant. 1996 is the trial in adult court and the prosecution's opening, they say that the prosecutor says that William didn't have a very terrible life. As a 15 year old, he had everything he could wanted, comfortable lifestyle.

They said that wasn't good enough for this defendant. Okay. Yeah, they said that Bruce and Darlene were trying to live the American dream and he had to screw it all up. This little shit had, well shit all over it if you knew him actually, shit all over it. So the defense attorneys argued that,

they tried to argue first of all that the confession tape not be admitted, but it is admitted. So now they have to argue why it's not useful. And they say that he could not withstand three days of straight interrogation, even though he went into sleep. They didn't keep him for 72 hours in the box. They said they kept bringing him in there, kept bringing him in there.

He said that Billy was coerced and wasn't in a fully rational frame of mind when he gave the interview. And basically the only evidence is this confession. Without that, it's over. So the defense attorney tells the jurors in opening statements that Billy loved his parents and he didn't kill them. He said what he saw in those few moments in that bedroom sent a shockwave through his life that he's never recovered from.

He's a scumbag because of this. He didn't do this because he's a scumbag, it's the other way around. That's what they're saying. They said, well, he was, as a result of this, he was never able to make anything out of his life, and they said he lived penniless on a makeshift raft and drinking himself to death.

Okay. Yeah. They said that he even went on to say getting a confession out of him wasn't difficult. They said he was putty in the hands of these detectives because he suffers from PTSD. Of what? His own volition? Yeah, well, it's still bothering him. That's why his life has turned out like this.

This is all a symptom of PTSD his whole fucked up life Okay Can be explained away and he the defense then said the real killer should be sitting in this courtroom the real killer Kurt oh, they're saying Kurt did it Billy's brother. They're saying Kurt did it They said Kurt was the one who had a bad relationship with his parents they were the ones who were kicking him out of the house and locking him out and trying to kick him out to the army and cutting him off his money and all that kind of thing. It's all Kurt, not Billy. Billy, sure, he got yelled at like any other teenager, but

I mean, who cares? So they bring an investigator on the original investigator and he comes out and he says that he you know just finding out the facts about the family he said that Billy had told them that if he wanted to buy some clothing he'd be given a credit card then he'd have to return it in a short period of time with the receipts right and that made him upset can you imagine at 15 if your parents gave you a credit card to buy something yeah and number one and then said just bring the receipt no problem I wasn't Imagine at 15 if your parents gave you a credit card to buy something. Yeah. Number one.

And then said just bring me the receipt. No prob- I wasn't allowed to get anything. They weren't going to buy it for me. Never mind have fucking take my credit card and buy it and just show me the receipt. He said Robin though was allowed to use the credit card as long as she wanted. Okay. And showed the favoritism and that's what Billy was upset. She's not pulling fire alarms and shitting her pants, man.

That's the problem. Well, he says that she made him do it. Oh. Now cross-examination, they point out that Rouse worked with his father and he went go hunting with him and he was close with him. And they said Billy didn't tell you his parents showered him with material possessions. And they said that William had a horse. They bought Billy a horse at one point. What kid has a fucking horse and gets a credit card?

So the evidence, they bring in all these bags. They had a telephone, a phone book, a reading lamp, a picture from the master bedroom. Basically everything from the master bedroom that had blood on it, they brought it in to show the jury. Look, see, that's covered in blood. You could bring one item in and go covered in blood. I got more. Picture of the room covered in blood. They said they found Darlene Rouse's credit card on the seat of her black Cadillac and an empty shotgun box found on the second floor rec room of the Rouse home, second floor rec room where Billy said he was hanging out. I don't know why they didn't bring that up earlier. They bring in an aunt here for the defense.

This is Jill Elanuski. And she said she's never witnessed any outbursts of violence between William and his parents. She said, Billy was my sister's favorite. So yeah, it's mom's sister here. And also she became, Billy lived with her for years after he got out of the mental institution. Lived with this aunt.

The state calls another aunt, Donna Stenland, and she said that she had been sitting in court throughout the proceedings. She testified about a phone call she got from her nephew a few days before the trial, where he inquired whether she would be attending the proceedings, she testified about a phone call she got from her nephew a few days before the trial where he inquired whether she would be attending the proceedings. When she asked him how things were going, he brought up Kurt. She said, quote, he said, we're going to nail Kurt to the wall. And when she questioned him further, she said he responded, who else could have done it?

Had to be Kurt yeah gotta get Kurt on the stand the prosecution does otherwise the specter of him is gonna hang yeah so they call him really ask him straight out you kill your parents and see if they believe him or not so he gets there he comes in and by the way they haven't seen each other in ten years the brothers oh no only talked like twice over the last ten years Kurt comes in and by the way, they haven't seen each other in 10 years, the brothers only talked like twice over the last 10 years. Kurt comes in and puts his hand on his brother's shoulder and like squeezes his shoulder and like, nice to see you. He takes the witness stand. He is, yeah, he said that it's been damaged him a lot. This suggestion that he

is the killer and a lot of people I thought I knew a thing or two. That's all it was. He said, it's a normal, normal teenage stuff that he had with his parents. Nothing that he would murder them over. He said, but also he might've helped the defense a little bit when he talked about Billy's relationship with his parents.

He said, he didn't hate my mom, and no, he didn't hate my parents. He said, I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I don't hate them. I don't hate them. He said, but also he might have helped the defense a little bit when he talked about Billy's relationship with his parents. He said he didn't hate my mom and no, he didn't hate my dad. Kurt does an interview outside a court where he said he wished he wasn't here and he said

he didn't do anything. He said, I'm tired of being falsely accused and having a shadow of doubt hanging over me all the time. I have nothing to do with the murder. I don't know who did it Yeah, he said I just feel sorry for my brother regardless of what he did guilty not guilty I just feel sorry for him. It ruined his life. It ruined mine ruined my sisters our relatives all of us We just lost so much

He said I loved my parents and they loved me I had just turned 20 and thought I knew a thing or two. So he had some problems, but nothing like that people have made it out to me. They got an argument over the army. That's all it was. It wasn't I'll kill you. Closing arguments here.

OK. The prosecution said that he was a brooding, just angry kid who was just sick of his mother's nagging because he wouldn't stop using drugs. And so he heartlessly killed his parents. They said, assistant state attorney said he's cunning. When he was 15 he was cunning. You're not cunning when you're on whiskey and mushrooms at 15.

The word cunning will never enter into that. No. And as an adult, he's anything but cunning. Did you hear they robbed a bank? He is a fuck up from day one. No. And as an adult, he's anything but cunning. Did you hear they robbed a bank? He is a fuck up from day one. Yeah, he is. He smoked weed, ate mushrooms, and washed all that shit down with whiskey.

That's not a genius plan. He's not cunning at all. He's a fuck up. No, not at all. The prosecutor goes on to say, the defense has been popular, the defense that has been popular in the last 10 months is, well cops are dirty this is during the oj trial time so he said so they say in this case the cops are dirty and they noted that the lake county sheriff's lieutenant charles fagan chuck

fagan who elicited the confession from rouse had picked up an 18 year old rouse for having a beer in his hand then let him go when he was called to another incident. So it's like it's not like they have it in for Billy. He had let him go. They said if Fagan was such a bum, why didn't Fagan squeeze a confession out of him in 83 with the beer? He said the reason is because he's honorable and he came into this court to answer questions truthfully. Okay. Psychiatrist here, they talked about a psychiatrist that testified for the defense and said he had PTSD, but he said could, the prosecution said could it be that the defendant was depressed because he killed his parents, maybe that's why. The defense drew a picture of just a typical teen in the 70s man, just like, you know, nothing like that, nothing, no violence. He said, this is crazy. He said he confessed only because he was trying

to get the police off his back. So the defense even played portions of the videotape for jurors, pausing the tape every few seconds to point out inconsistencies in his statements, and saying, see, now that didn't actually happen. That's wrong, what he said. Also suggested to jurors that the evidence could link Kurt to the crimes. And, you know, saying, see, now that didn't actually happen. That's wrong, what he said. Also suggested to jurors that the evidence could link Kurt to the crimes.

He said, I don't care if you believe Kurt did it or not. The question here is, is there reasonable doubt that Billy Rouse committed this crime? We'll find out. Eight women and four men are on the jury. Two weeks of a trial. They start deliberations on a Friday night. And again, they don't send them home to do they just say you're gonna deliberate all night Really? Yeah, this happened a couple weeks ago to in a case. They deliberated for the next eight hours and They watched the confession tape three times. Oh good Lord

By 2 40 a.m. They said they had a verdict. Really? They're going to wake him up for this? I don't like when you tell jurors, I know you've been here all day, but go in that room and don't come out until you got a fucking answer, is not how you do this. That's not fair to anybody. Wake a man up to learn his fucking fate? That's wild. They do.

And it comes in and they find him guilty of murder. Oh my. So sentencing comes around and the defense is just begging for leniency here. He said, you know, the Ralph's home was a place poisoned by infidelity, domestic violence and substance abuse. He said that it was the environment that a young emotionally disturbed son withered, turning to alcohol by age seven, and finally murdering his parents while intoxicated at 15. Okay. He hasn't killed anybody since, mind you.

He did stab a guy, but that's fine. He survived. So they judge, then, has a different thing. The judge sits Billy down or stands Billy up and said, quote, they gave you life and brought you into this world They gave you every opportunity for a future You did the most hatefully shocking thing when you took that shotgun and at close range Shot your mother who brought you into this world and then shot your father

You not only took their lives, but you took your own you sir May fuck off two consecutive 40 year sentences. 80 years. Get the fuck out of here. 80 years they gave him. Then, I know what we're going to say, what you're going to say in a second, but let me finish it that way you'll have more ammo for this. This will add to your fire here. She said she was disgusted that she wasn't able to sentence him to life without parole. She said, she said, quote, that is the injustice that I now have to live with. The judge is a victim. The judge said that. She said it was the maximum under the law. That's why. And yes, this is to a child child you'd send a child to 80 years yeah a

fucked up child if they caught him when he was 15 there's no way they'd give him that they wouldn't get this that's that's the thing that bothers me is he still it's just happened when he was 15 just cuz you're looking at a 31 man yeah just cuz you've turned into bath salt face eating guy. You can't do that. We've had murderers on this show get way less time than that. Way less time and it was killing an adult killing another adult. Right, this is a child killed his parents and he didn't even want to kill his dad.

No, I don't like it at all. Don't get me wrong. It's terrible and horrible. And it definitely should get a shitload of time in jail. I don't think he should walk by any stretch of the imagination. But to me, I think if you give him is maybe worse than most of them too, though.

Yeah, it's horrible. It's fucking horrible. I mean, if you give him 40, if you give him the 40, 240s concurrent, I'm okay with that. Yeah. Because the girl in Arkansas that killed her father, the fucking Don't Anger the Princess that episode.

That chick is out. She got out way early. She got out when she was like in her 20s. But I mean, she got like that much time and then got paroled. So I mean, that's kind of fair for a teenager killing their parents in cold blood. And then that woman that stabbed her mom, and she's out. She's out too. So the reason is that he was spared a more severe punishment because stiffer laws for

juvenile crimes were literally enacted the week after the murders. Oh, shit. Having nothing to do with the murders. They were just in the wheels or in motion and that happened a week after. So they couldn't sentence them under those guidelines when they were saying, you know, fucking put kids in jail forever. That was the eighties and nineties. Yeah, literally.

Yeah. If a kid's a drug dealer, murder him. Like that's what they would say. So they said, and because of the modern truth and sentencing laws can't be applied to a 1980 case. So they can't say 40 means 40 so in this case he could be paroled in 39 years including time already served and credit for good time so he could get out when he's 70 maybe okay 2002 the house burns down really it is somebody it's. Yep, somebody, it's a cursed house,

somebody bought it, purchased by a new family, they were at a town when the fire started in the laundry room and burned to the fucking ground. Ah, didn't clean out those fucking lint traps. Well, I don't know who was doing laundry, but they said they also ruled out arson on it, so. An accidental thing, firefighters extinguished the blaze in time to leave a shell of the home behind,

which then became a spot for transients to live and drink and hang out. So the next year it was demolished completely. Like a derelict boat. Like a derelict boat. Now here's what's suspicious. The homeowner said he was planning on knocking it down, building a new house anyway.

Which, gee, if it burns down, then it's all paid for too, weird, right? Then I don't have to put the bill on that. Not making any accusations, but I am Italian, and that sounds pretty familiar. So 2015 Investigation Discovery makes a documentary on this whole deal here, and they said they were met with,

producers were met with some resistance by the board of trustees and the mayor of Libertyville. Really? Yes, the guy said, you're talking about taking pictures of our signage, which to us will read, Welcome to Libertyville, the place where we have murderers and mafia run gambling houses. No you don't, it's gone. It's gone, it was 40 years ago. You fucking weirdo He said to make sure that the mayor said to the person make sure that you say the term Unincorporated Libertyville because it's right outside because it is outside the town proper. Yeah, it's not an uncorporate. Yeah, it's not like on Main Street

He said I just want to make sure it's made clear these events happened in unincorporated Libertyville Reality TV isn't always real and it tends to dramatize a place or situation. We were recently named one of the top 20 safest towns in Illinois. We like being perceived that way. Look at our new splash pad. I don't fuck my shit up.

Look at that. See, isn't that nice? Now, Billy is at the Pontiac Correctional Facility. And he is, his projected parole date, his first possible parole date is going to be February 24th 2027 okay, so I don't know what happened, but it's that's what ends up being well I guess from 90 yeah, and then his projected discharge date would be

That's his projected parole date his discharge date from custody would be 2 24 2030 Jesus So there's that yeah, I don't know you got something knocked off of there or what but uh, there's that and 2015 people are started really looking at this case a lot They fucked that kid man They fucked him. Yeah There's somebody who has on crime libraryibrary.org and I found a comment on, I look for comments all the time and this person says, if anyone has any information on this issue, I really

need you to contact me. I'm a master level student specializing in forensic psychology. No, this is not forensic science like you see on TV shows. I'm not a CSI professional. I study criminal behaviors, all my degrees thus far in psychology I have reason to believe that Billy Rouse is innocent in all capital letters. Okay, please if anyone has any information Please call my cell phone and then gives out her cell phone number, which I won't give out on this show This is not a scam or a reason to put a virus on your anything

I've been researching this case for some time now. I've been threatened to stop my research. Okay. Okay. Nobody's saying, no he's threatened, just stop. You're a dummy. He admitted it, he did it. I think he did it, I think he did it.

Whether he got fucked in the, you know, execution and the whole thing, no pun intended, but yeah. So 2015, an episode of Investigation Discovery Hell House series series they did 2014 an episode of blood relatives on Investigation discovery and an episode in 2008 of Dominic Dunn's power privilege and justice that guy called the case man poor bastard My goodness, so there there's Libertyville everybody Huh fucking case, huh? They've Jesus Christ. They really took it's wild man a child. Yeah, I'd like to see what everybody out there thinks

What are your opinions on this too? Yeah, definitely hit us up and far be it from me to defend a murderer Yeah, well we know I mean, yeah, we're idiots as we've established many times over the course of this fucking episode So there you go. If you like that episode, tell everyone about it. Get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars. It helps so much. I don't know why, but it really, really does. Tell us what your favorite condiments are.

That'd be great. That's perfect. So you can do that. That'll help us out a lot. Follow us on social media as well, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Small Town Pot on Facebook, at Murder Small on Twitter. Also check the website, shutupandgivemurder.com. This is all, by the way,

after you've listened to Crime and Sports and Your Stupid Opinions, our other two podcasts, which you should be listening to. But definitely head to shutupandgivemurder.com, get your merch, get your tickets to live shows. September 20th, Minneapolis, the State Theater, big beautiful theater. It's gonna be our biggest show ever if you sell it out guys you'll beat Chicago and we can say Minneapolis fucking rules so do that next night in Milwaukee only a few seats left for that on the 21st also Oklahoma City Kansas City Austin Boston New York get your tickets right now do it up patreon.com slash crime and sports. That's all the bonus material.

Yeah. Anybody $5 a month or above a mere cup of coffee. You can either have that or you can get hundreds of back episodes immediately that you've never heard before of bonus stuff and new stuff every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. You get it all. All of it. All of it. This week, which you're going to get in honor of the 4th of July for crime and sports, we're going of it, god damn. All of it. This week, which you're gonna get, in honor of the Fourth of July for Crime and Sports, we're gonna talk about fireworks accidents. There's a lot. And we'll talk about our own personal fireworks accidents

because we both had them. I'll tell you a bad one. Tell you a bad one, Jimmy's got a good one. Then, for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about the real tombstone. Old West shit, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, how shit really went down, different from the movie, and even if you've never seen the movie,

it's just a cool old West story We're gonna tell about murder and you know dirty guys hunt each other fun stuff So here signing his own wife's prostitution papers. That's wild. Yes. That's good shit, man So yeah do that patreon.com Slash crime in sports and you get a shout out at the when is it right now fuck right? in sports and you get a shout out at the, when is it? Oh, fuck, right goddamn now. Jimmy, hit me with the name of the people who are so wonderful, would never kill us in our sleep.

I'd like to hear them right fucking now. This week's executive producer is our Frannie Hitschke. God damn it, I never get her name right. Well, thank you. I adore her. So, Frannie in Australia, she's terrific. And she's doing murals down there now. She's painting, she loves art. She's terrific. And she's doing murals down there now. She's painting.

She loves art. Fran Australia, baby. Thank you. Fran Australia. It's key. Liz Vasquez, Jolita Renee Cecilia Gross King. Yeah, she's terrific. Yeah.

Madison Rae Hall, Netta, Netty, Netay, Netay Marie. Net, like, I don't know. N-E-T-T-E? What is that? Is that net? Netta? Netta. How do you pronounce V-E-T-T-E, James?

Vette. Right. So it's net. I think it's net. Like, a net's probably short for a net. Oh, or nanette? Who knows? Nanette is something, but with a net on it.

Other producers this week, James R. Payton Meadows, Gary Howard, Jill Jolita, Renee Cecilia Gross King, Janice Hill, she's wonderful too, Zach Bowles, Zach thank you so much, Lori White, Angel Ledford, Bailey Ashley, Eric Garver, Lori White, Sharon Peters, Steve Galuski, Amanda Sheridan, AJ Jaqui, Zach Nowicki, Elizabeth Munson. Munson, Mike Yost, Angel with no last name, Joe Sandoval, Emerald LeDoux, Alyssa Madden, Lauren Taylor, Joseph Jurglenis. Jurglenis, jiggle it a little.

Carolyn Cuckerts. Cuckerts? I think it's, I think it's Cuckerts. Oh, sorry, I misheard you. I wasn I heard you. It's she's heard it. Francine Bootscher, Bocher, Boucher, Kendra with no last name. Jeremy Trish, Lucas May, Ty Damon the second, Rebecca Broussard, Jodie Olsen, Ping Yu the cat, Kelly L, India Allen. To you.

There's a guy on Tik Tok that has his cat read things and then he just says meow and then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow.

And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. And then he just says meow. the cat. Kelly L. India Allen. To you.

There's a guy on TikTok that has his cat read things and then he just says me out and it's I die laughing. It's the dumbest shit on the planet. Darren with no last name. Corey Burton. It's incredibly stupid. Be more six. Haley with no last name. Megan Bortner, Bill Woodson, Scott C., Amanda Chamont,

Erin with no last name, Sarah Hickson, Sia Thebia, Court with no last name, Nicole Gabarik, Justin Jones, George Plant, Dayton with no last name, Jennifer Cavan, Kevin, Donnell Elliott, Anna Baxter-Singh, Melissa Clark, Darren Brand, Jules Anderson, Jordan Hadley, Lisa Rezone, Dawn with no neck, I guess. Divas apologies about your neck, Dawn. Nancy with no last name, Erin Wurlodchik, Angel Sonoran, Saronin, Carl Height, Erin were Lorda Chick? Lorda Dar-chick.

Wow. Angel Sonoran. Saronan. Saronan. Carl Height. Aaron Hammond, maybe? Craig Nicholas. Gail would know last name.

LD would know last name. Sarah Sherwood. Megan Aiken. Kelter Varaget. Mike Sackett. Brandy Zweter. Tarney Tuggle-Gradilis? What?

Tuggle, that's the last name. Joshua Wilson, Eleanor Winfield, Amanda Keenan, Marie Evans, Lily Myers, Matthew Bowers, Andrew Palmer, Natasha Dan, Carl Brum has two of them, James. He got two patrons, one for somebody else. Thank you, Carl. You're amazing. Fuck yeah. Turns one for somebody else. Thank you, Carl. You're amazing. Julie Olivier, John Stenstrom, Sierra Sturgell, Jessica Lopez, Mariah Kasner, Denise Taylor, Matthias Wander, Matthias, what do you do? Fiona Oller, valued customer. Maddie Tappa, Joseph with no last name, Joe with no last name, Tiffany Kamejo, Davy Frankiewicz,

Damien with no last name, Judy Oyenart, Shelley with no last name, Jennifer Bach, J and N, the two letters J and N. Stacey with no last name, Anne Hunt, Melissa Kanuczak, Lauren Oh boy, Konichiwa, Konisic, Konutski, I don't know. Lauren Brown, Elena Marquez, Rochelle Taylor, Joel Crawford. I like how I try to help you and I don't have the names in front of me but I'm like trying to sound them out with you. I don't even know what letters are on the paper. I have no clue. Well just say these so that I don't have to.

Jake Giles, Peyton Herzner, Vinsuki, Owen Mitchell, Adriana Tiffany, oh boy, Soravia, wow, Sorlavia. JT Kinder, Ashley Haley, Amanda Rosen, Kirk Ryan, Jason Nezeth, Sarah Whited, Whitehead, Paldo Fett, Stacey with no last name, Kerry Kinghorn, Taylor Amason, Jennifer Graham, Katherine Hammerle, Max Cox, that's easy, Anita McCauley, Jordan Deal, Nick Cohan, Cohen maybe, Jordan Peterson, probably not that one, Christopher Ford and all of our patrons, you're terrific. Thank you everybody so much.

Thank you for what you do for us, for all that you do for us. You never stop. Thank you. We appreciate the shit out of each and every one of you. Thank you so much. And if you want to find us on social media, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. There's drop down menus that have all that shit. Keep following us, keep hanging out with us. And until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus

in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.