Small Town Murder - #52 - Meth, Marriage & Murder in Webster Springs, West Virginia

Episode Date: January 10, 2018

This week, we peel away the layers of Webster Springs, West Virginia, where alcohol, affairs, and meth put pressure on a marriage until it finally explodes... But that's just the beginning! It's a wild one! Along the way, we find out what Burgoo is, if meth sweat can eat the varnish off of wood, and exactly how many times you can shoot someone in the face & still blame the doctor for not saving them!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the rugged town of Webster Springs, West Virginia, where a couple's relationship fell apart slowly, then ended in a flash. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody.

Welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. Yes. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week. Once again, we're excited as usual. A couple things

quickly before we start here. If you want any kind of small town murder or crime and sports merchandise, the only place to go is Crime and Sports. One place. Crimeandsports.threadless.com. That's everything there. We want to give you a quick reminder of the live shows here. We'll buzz through them real quick. Boston, February the 18th. Yes. 1 p.m. show is the only small town murder that still has tickets left. The 7 p.m. is sold out.

4 p.m. Crime and sports still has tickets to come see that. That's a crazy fun show. Detroit two days earlier, February 16th with Dan Cummins at 7 o'clock doing stand-up. We'll both be doing that. That's at themagicbag.com. Absolutely. And then after that, the late show will be a hybrid podcast of Small Town Murder and Time Sucks.

So that's going to be a ton of fun. And, of course, Phoenix, Arizona, March 25th. That's stand-up live. Come out. See that show. It's going to be awesome. Get your tickets early for that one because this is our hometown and there's a lot of people coming that we know and things like that.

So they're going to hog a few of these tickets. That one's StandUpLive.com and then select the window for Phoenix. Don't select the window for Alabama. You won't get shit. LaughBoston.com. LaughBoston.com. There we go. And that out of the way, thank you guys for your iTunes reviews this week.

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tremendously. Some folks are even more amazing than that. They are. They're incredible. Some of these folks that we'll be talking about later, our producers, our executive producers, they have gone to patreon.com slash crimeinsports and done an amazing thing by giving us a donation.

And we appreciate that more than you could know. And if you'd like to make a one-time donation, that's also completely fine. And we love it. And we're more thankful for it than you can imagine. You could do that over at PayPal using our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com. That's the one. That is the one. Also, one last thing. I think it's

two weeks now coming out or maybe a week from now. Keep an eye out for it. P.S. I hate this movie. Podcast with myself, my wife, Sarah Hunt. She's very funny. I think I'm okay funny wise. You do okay. You try real hard, James. We make fun of bad romantic

comedies. We did a bunch of episodes and then we had to stop for a while and we're going to reconstitute it. It's a lot of fun. I rant and rave like a lunatic because I hate everything involved with them. Listen to it because James is one of my favorite comics. It's fun. And so that out of the way though, we have to say it. We have to do it.

Yes. We're at the point of the disclaimer. We have to do it. Guys, everyone, this is a comedy podcast. It is. I understand that there's murder involved. It's to do it. Guys, everyone, this is a comedy podcast. It is. It is. I understand. There's murder involved. It's small town murder. Right.

The facts are real. The research is real. We don't make stuff up for jokes or to be silly or anything like that. None of that happens. But we are comedians. We're going to make jokes. We make jokes at the expense of towns. Yes.

Because all towns are funny. They're hysterical. The best cities in the world have really stupid, funny things about them that you could laugh at. So it doesn't matter. Bumbling police forces, murderers, they're fine to make fun of. They killed people for Christ's sake. Let's make fun of these people.

What we don't do is we try and we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or of the victims' families. They've been through enough. They've been through enough. That's our whole thing because as we've said many times, we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. We're not. They've been through enough. They've been through enough. That's our whole thing because, as we've said many times, we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. We're not. That's all it is.

But there are some people that think that true crime and comedy have no place ever in the same realm. And you have your right to your opinion. And you know what? This is not the show for you. Have a good one. Adios. See you later.

Happy trails. Adios. Happy trails for the rest of you. I know. See you later. Happy trails. Adios. Happy trails for the rest of you. I know what you're saying. Yes. What are they saying, Jimmy? They're saying, shut up and give me murder.

That's right, my friend. Shut up and give you murder. And that's exactly what we're going to do right now with the crazy case. Let's go on a trip. All right. What do you say here? I'd love to. We were in Oregon last week.

It was nice. Beach town? Yeah, it was a beautiful beach town. Cool, misty. Windy. Kids laying in ditches places. Oh yeah, it was terrible. Terrible crime that happened, but still. I get a message from somebody about Job Corps who said her mom works for Job Corps

and then she goes, yeah, yeah, they're all scumbags. Yeah, we nailed Job Corps. We've both known people and we know what it's all about. I'm quite aware that most people in Job Corps are fucking lunatics. That's all it is, man. Last-ditch effort to raise a family. Let's leave Oregon. Yes, please.

What do you say? We're going to leave Oregon. We're going to head east, head back east. We're going to go all the way to West Virginia. Fantastic. Oh, West Virginia. I'll tell you right now. There's going to be so many Johnny Knoxville references.

There's going to be so many wild, wonderful whites of West Virginia references is what there's going to be. West Virginia, we apologize if you're there. We think of you as the whites are the entire state, by the way. If you haven't seen that documentary, I don't know what the hell you're doing. But that's the whole state, we figured. Just a bunch of people running around trying to get prescription drugs off of each other, we feel like, and possibly meth. For any fucking favor at all. I'll scratch your back and you'll give me a tab.

In between coal mining shifts. West Virginia, don't know if that's true. We're not saying it. That's your stereotype. That's just when the kid shakes the bottle of pills and he's like, that's the Boone County mating call. That's the whole state. Just so you know.

That's what we're thinking of you. Boone County. We're going to Webster Springs, West Virginia. Okay. Sort of, actually. All right. There's other... They can't decide on a fucking name of this town, these goddamn people.

So you know what? Stereotypes are all true. We just proved them. Sober people can come up with names of towns and stick to them. These people, it just changes with the wind and the years. We'll get into it. Webster Springs is not the official name of the town, by the way. Really?

Still? Still. Oh, no, no, no. They still can't decide. We'll talk about it. It's a mess. 2018, can't decide. Oh, they still don't know.

There's some things on the official, like letterhead and the post office is a different thing. It's a mess. 2018, can't decide. Oh, they still don't know. There's some things on the official, like letterhead and the post office is a different thing. It's ridiculous. There's somebody just being a complete dick, and he's like, fuck it, I refuse. That's how contrary people are in West Virginia. They're like, I ain't calling it that. It's the name of the town. You can't just make up what to call it. You know what I mean?

That's how contrary people are. Fuck you, I won't do it. Yeah, the government ain't telling me what to call it you know what i mean that's how contrary people are fuck you i won't do it yeah government ain't telling me what to call my town what i'm a republican i vote for small government i can say whatever i want or it's the opposite it doesn't matter it's not a republican democrat it's just a contrary thing that's all it is it's just a contrary thing and That's all it is. It's just a contrary thing. And it's like, I will not be told what to call my... It's like, we have to classify things with a name. This is what I mean. Things have to have a name. Oh, by the way, Oregon, or Washington, actually, the town in Washington, the Puyallup or whatever

the fuck it is, you guys have taken over the biggest asshole title from the Lionel Lakes people. I don't give a fuck how you people pronounce your fucking name. I don't care. I don't care. The murder didn't take place there, number one, so I really didn't care. Number two, I don't give a shit. By the time I'm getting all these tweets,

I don't, that case is so far out of my fucking mind, I am knee deep in another murder, this one, and I don't care about that one, so you're wasting your tweets. I'm just telling you. Thank you for the whatever. Wasting your tweets.

You're wasting your tweets. You're wasting your messages. I get ha-ha's and that. No, it's not funny. We don't care. Shut up. Ha-ha. God damn it.

Fuckers. If anybody from West Virginia says a goddamn word, fuck you, decide on a fucking town name before you come after me. Make a dentist appointment before you tweet us. Sorry for all the constant F words on the top of the show. We really went, I don't normally, we don't try not to go that hard to scare people away, but it had to be done that time. Here we go. This one here, it's in central West Virginia. Actually, not the panhandle.

Although it's the pan, I assure you there is so much panhandle behavior here. It's not even funny. It might as well be the tip of the handle. It's about two hours to Charleston. So West Virginia, is it actually west of Virginia? It's kind of north of Virginia. Okay, so it's like the panhandle of Virginia. I guess, yes.

Yes, put them before they broke up. Yeah, this is Virginia's panhandle. Virginia's just like, we're all a pan now. Just leaves a handle, make it its own state. Virginia has several panhandles, which is disturbing. This is two hours to Charleston, which is the capital of West Virginia, which still only has 51,000 people. Charleston. I was going to say, West Virginia seems like it's a small state.

It's a small state full of small towns and smaller cities. Is it the next smallest next to? No, no, no, it's not. Never mind. I was going to say. Population-wise, you mean? Rhode Island size. Oh, no, no.

It's a good size state. It's got plenty of land. I know that Delaware is much smaller, so I already know that. It's mountainous, West Virginia, too. There's a lot of mountains, so that kind of takes away from the- It makes sense. It's in Webster County, because obviously you can't name something different than the county. Of course.

Zip code 26288, area code 304, 0.47 square miles, so a little small town here. The website, town website, is for shit. It looks like it was made in 2000, 1999. Did you say under a half a square mile? Yeah, under a half a square mile in the actual town. Like I said, the website literally looks like it's from 1999. It's really weird. It's for sure a GoDaddy.

Yeah, it's not even a GoDaddy. It's whatever was before GoDaddy. It's like, you know, hi, mommy. Or I don't know what other. Hi, grandDaddy. It's whatever was before GoDaddy. It's like, you know, Hi, Mommy. Or I don't know what other. Hi, Granddaddy. It's Please Stay Mommy. That's what it is. It's Stop Granddaddy.

That's what it is. It's Don't Leave Daddy. Yeah. Please Don't Leave. Don't touch me there, Daddy. That's the name of the old one. The old post in sight. Don't touch me there, Daddy.

Then they gave up and said fuck it go daddy I don't care do what you gotta do but the county has a slogan though damn it the county had a slogan it's not really a great slogan it's not promising too much mountains of adventure which could mean anything I mean it sounds like

the tagline for a fucking roller coaster yeah it does mountains of adventure come down six. Mountains of adventure. Come down. Six Flags. Mountains of adventure. It's a new Six Flags attraction. I like it.

No, this is, it's weird. That could be anything. That could be, you know, incest in the woods. That could be shaking the pill bottle. That could be Bigfoot. We have no fucking idea what's in these mountains. Snake hunting and squirrel fishing. Who knows?

Did I say squirrel fishing? I think you said squirrel fisting. I said squirrel fishing, but whatever. Very difficult to assist a squirrel. Squirrel baiting? I don't know. Oh, boy. That sounds worse.

That sounds worse. Is that while you're fisting the squirrel? Jesus. You got to bait the squirrel while you fist him. Squirrel's getting taken around the world, man. That squirrel's getting taken on mountains of adventure. It's got a smile on its face. That's mountains of adventure right there. Maybe that's what the on its face. That's Mountains of Adventure right there.

Maybe that's what the slogan is describing. That's all it's about. That's just fucking squirrel orgies. Go on. The history, this town's officially named Addison. Addison is the official name of the town. That's what this town is really called. But everyone calls it Webster Springs because there are assholes here. I swear to God.

You got to make it sound nice because Texas has an Addison and it's fucking horrible. Oh, there's tons of Addisons. Yeah. It's named for a guy named Addison McLaughlin. At least they didn't name it after another state's Addison. His land was the original layout of the whole area. So they just named it after that. They named the town's, okay, it's been officially Addison.

The town's post office, though, decided to call themselves the Webster Springs Post Office since 1902. OK. So the town letterhead and the post office are different things. Awful. It's ridiculous. Also, but that's not the other one. That's not – There's another name?

It was originally known as Elklick. OK. And then Forklick. Uh-klick and then Addison officially. Those are the three official names. And then Addison and then they just said, we like Webster Springs better. And they just started calling it Webster Springs. When did they start with the Webster Springs? This is the timeline of this is the interesting thing.

Webster Springs, they started calling it in 1861. Okay. Unofficially. So they all were calling it Webster Springs, and then in 1892 they said, let's name it Addison, even though we all fucking call it Webster Springs. Everyone said, alright, and then they did that and no one can agree on shit. They have no idea. This is a bunch of old people that hate change. Yes. It's all Jack Nicholson

from, what is it, As Good As It Gets? As Good As It Gets, yeah. When you're doing research for this, you have to look up everything for both towns to see where some people put it under this town, some people put the information under this town. What a nightmare. It's a mess. It didn't matter.

When they first started calling it Webster Springs, there wasn't many people calling it Webster Springs because they only had five residents in the entire town in 1868. Five. Five. Five people. In 1868. They literally had five people.

They had James Woodsall and his family. You can name the whole town. Pat Duffy, George Wolverton, and Martin Lowe. Jesus. That was the town. What the fuck? It grew super slowly. The roads were shit going there because it's West Virginia, so it was very hard to get there. The place actually became somewhere that people were attracted to in the late 1800s, early

1900s, because they had a ton of salt sulfur water wells that people thought were good for your health. It's awful. The whole town must smell horrible. It's disgusting. It's a horrible smelling town where no one can agree on what the fuck they're even calling it. It's truly the most horrible thing.

It's hell on earth. It really sounds like it here. They had four springs total there. They had the Addison McLaughlin well. They had other wells here, but Addison McLaughlin, obviously, so you've got to name it after him. They had the Elk River, the old Fort Lick Spring.

Yeah. Everything gets a name from fucking one of the town names. That's what it is. That's all it is. They just said, we'll name from fucking one of the town names. That's what it is. That's all it is. And they just said, we'll name a little bit of this town from every one of these names here. Everything gets a sprinkle. People thought that these wells had medicinal qualities.

Of course. And could cure everything from psoriasis, eczema, acne, arthritis, skin conditions to internal injuries. It didn't matter. Just sit here and stink. Sit here and get the stink on and it's fine. Oh, that's the worst. It sounds disgusting. Yeah.

Everything smells like hard-boiled eggs. I'm serious. No, it's horrible. It's the worst fucking. Sulfur's the worst smell. You don't want that. No one wants that. You don't want that in your house.

Now, in 1897. I just assumed that they had running water. Sorry. Oh, Jimmy. What are you thinking? How could I do that? Why would you assume they had running water. Sorry. Oh, Jimmy. What are you thinking? How could I do that? Why would you assume they had running water?

There's a bucket somewhere. Everyone's got a shit bucket. Webster Springs, West Virginia. Bring your shit bucket. We'll give you a slogan, you fuckers. Bring your shit bucket. There's your slogan. And help us pick a fucking name that we can all agree on. No doubt.

How about they just all pick a new one? How's that? There's not that many people here to disagree on a town name. This is what I mean. We have to agree on something, everybody. Pick a name that we can all agree on. The problem is there's just not enough people to get lost in the mix. You know what I mean?

There's so few people you can hate each person individually. That's true. But the thing is that drives me nuts with this, with the name thing. I can't get it. Because you have to agree on something. Where does it end? Are there people just like going out, looking at their

street name going, hmm, I don't know. Johnson Street? I don't think so. I just cross it out and then people are putting that on their address and you're going, nope, that's not the... What are we doing? We can't do this. It's anarchy. It's goddamn anarchy.

This town needs the purge to be real. That's what this whole town needs. I'd like to be czar of this town for like two weeks. I'll straighten this whole shit out. 1897 here, a Senator Johnson Newland Camden built a 265-room big Victorian hotel. Huge hotel. It had the Sulphur Springs there, too. He had Russian and Turkish baths and the whole deal.

Nice. It was the fanciest thing going. It was the pride of Webster Springs. On July 20th, 1925, it burnt to the ground. I knew it. Burnt to the ground, completely destroyed. Flames could be seen for miles away. Wow.

The sky was nuts. So, yeah. Unbelievable. Pretty amazing here. The one thing that they had and it's all gone. Yeah. Population grew slowly. It peaks in 1950.

That's the peak of this place's population with 1,300 people. Nowadays, 733 people. That's not awful. And they've been losing steadily since the 50s, basically. People move in, they take a great job offer, and they move in, they're like, this place smells like shit. You smell it? When does that stop?

Never. Where'd you move? I don't even know where I fucking moved. I don't know. The town has three names. Elklick? I don't have any idea what I'm doing here. It's shit smell.

That's what it is. So population 733. Median age, much older here. Usually 37 is the average in Webster Springs slash Addison slash elk lick slash fucking goat balls. It's 48.4. Jesus. So very much older.

Exactly 50-50 female male population. So pretty much right on the money there. Everything else is pretty close. Married populations right along the same lines as usual. Everything's single. The only thing that's a little bit more, there's a few more widowed people and a few more divorced people than normal. Which isn't, the widow thing just kind of makes the age make sense. Yes. A little bit more than that.

As far as race and religion and all that goes, it's a pretty white town. Yeah. West Virginia here. Ninety seven point four four percent white. OK. That is white. That's pretty white. Zero point zero zero percent black.

Zero point zero zero percent Asian. You wouldn't expect that. Not one Asian. Not one. None. There's like two and a half billion Asians in the world. Asian. You wouldn't expect that. Not one Asian? Not one. None? I don't know. There's like two and a half billion Asians in the world. They don't have fucking one of

them. And it's Northeast America. That's where they come to. Not one black guy? No. You don't have a black guy in your hometown? I see them not having blacks. One? No. I see them not... One black dude. The word tolerant comes to play. Yeah, but one black dude? No.

One guy. Fuck no. One lady. Not there. I can't imagine. It's just none. No black people at all. It's so weird.

1.32% Hispanic. They don't realize how valuable they are. That's all. I guess not. The African American population in America, we need you to do everything that you do times 10. You're amazing. They're amazing people. All I need them to do right now is move to this town and pick a fucking name.

Just name it. I don't care what else you do. Name the town. Guys, move in and name it. Oh, Jesus. I'm sorry, black people. I apologize to give you this responsibility and put it on you. We've gone through enough. I get it. Name this fucking town because these people can't decide. And apparently 700 white people can't decide on a goddamn name.

So we need help is what we're saying. 1.32% Hispanic. Here's an odd thing. I would think in a town like this, to me, I think religious. Shit, no. 21% religious here. 50% is the usual. So they are just white and then some Hispanic people.

That's it. Like two Hispanic people. That's it. And that's it. Wow. That's the only thing. There's two or more races. This is awesome.

It is just, it's weird is what it is. And none of them are religious, too. Yeah. Like, shit, there ain't no God in the coal mine. None. That's it right there. No God in the mines, boy. Wiped out 64 people two years ago.

Forget that. Jesus wouldn't do that. Jesus wouldn't do that. There ain't no God down here, boy. I've been in 64 people two years ago. Forget that. Jesus wouldn't do that. Jesus wouldn't do that. Ain't no God down here, boy. I've been in the minds. Trust me. There ain't no God. There's a devil.

I shook his hand, but there ain't no minds. I tickled his tank, but I didn't do nothing else. There ain't no God, let me tell you. So people don't really talk like that in West Virginia. Close enough. It's a little redneck-y, though. If you watch the Wonderful Whites there, they embrace it. They embrace the southerness, even though they're pretty much in the north.

They still embrace their southerness as much as they can. Of the people who are there that are religious, it's 0.82% Catholic, about 3% Mormon, which is, I wouldn't expect that. That far away from Utah? It does get cold there. We know that. If there's snow. They'll be hiding.

They'll be standing there. Shh, stay still. They'll notice we're here. When in Rome is a statement, but it's just like when in snow. When in snow, stand still. You become Mormon. Yeah. 0.0%, Jewish, 0.0% Muslim, obviously.

There isn't even a black guy. There's not going to be any Muslim people or Jews or anything like that. It's so weird, man. 34% of the people are Democrats, about 62% Republican here. The economy here, unemployment rate higher than the average by about 3%, 3.5%. Maybe the black people just figured out that sulfur probably makes you whiter. You know what I mean? It just dries you the fuck out.

And they're like, I'm going through way too much lotion living here. I'm getting the fuck out of this town. This town's stankin'. Fuck this. Stank-ass white people live in this fucking town. Stank-ass white people. And they're making me turn white. I'm getting the fuck out.

Hey, black people, if the only white, white town you've ever been to, if you live in that area, is this area, we don't smell like that, all of us. We apologize. That's just that town. That's not how white this area? We don't smell like that, all of us. We apologize. That's just that town. That's not how white people smell. I don't know. Unbelievable. So, yeah, it's about almost 9% unemployment rate, which is about 5% in the national.

So it's a bit high there. Median household income here is about half the national average, about $26,000, which is way low. The jobs here, there's normally like the mining jobs, it's 0.61% normally. Here it's almost 5% are mining jobs. So you're going to get a lot of that, manufacturing, that sort of thing. Not a lot of white-collar jobs in the area. A lot of health care and social assistance because they're old. They're old and poor, too. That's the other thing.

Old and poor, you're going to get health care and social assistance. And public administration is a big one there. Cost of living, we say 100 is average par. Here it's 81. Some of the things like health care are very high. They're above 100. A couple of them are above 100. Housing, 31.

Wow. 30. Please move here. Your house stinks like eggs. My Christ. We don't know what to address your envelope to your house. We're damn near free. Shit, come on in here. Average home cost here, $58,000. Holy shit. Yeah. Trucks are more expensive

than that. No doubt. My truck's worth more than my house. If your truck is worth more than your house, you're fucking doing it wrong. Right. You're doing it wrong. Life is backward. You're fucking up. You're just doing it wrong, man. Yeah, but about 25% of the houses are between

$40,000 and $60,000. So that tells you a lot right there. It's cheap. And if we've convinced you somehow I don't know what's wrong with you. To move to the sulfur-addled pill-addicted li lily-white... In need of a name town. Town of God knows what, Addison slash Webster Springs slash Elk Twat, whatever you want to call it.

We've convinced you to move there. We have for you the Addison slash Webster Springs, West Virginia real estate report. Okay, we have a two, the average two bedroom apartment here is about 582 bucks a month. Jesus. Just pretty cheap. Yeah. I found a two bedroom, one bath house, 650 square feet. It looks like the, like we've said many times, it was a child from Willy Wonka who was sleeping with his entire family.

He is from here. 650 square feet. Three bedrooms. Or two bedrooms. And they put two bedrooms in that shit somehow. You got a lot of balls. You got a lot of balls putting. That's like a Manhattan apartment.

That's a fucking studio apartment. That is so small. That's like a Manhattan apartment. Instead, you're in the hills smelling sulfur, so not as good. But $49,900 for this little slice of heaven right here. Slice of something. Slice of something. Slice of sulfur.

I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,600-square-foot house here for $140,000. And this one is a little more upscale and a dun up on the inside. Finally, if you say, I am a rugged outdoorsman, I'm a frontiersman, damn it. You're buying this whole fucking town? I'm going to pitch a tent. What? I'm just going to pitch a tent outside. That's the most expensive house.

We have a... The most expensive house was $140,000. Yeah, they had one that was a little more, but I was like, you got to be fucking kidding me. We're not saying that. So I found an 8,276 foot square foot lot. Just vacant land, 7,500 bucks.

Jesus Christ. Move on in, pitch a tent. Things to do. I can put that on a credit card. I'll take this land. Master card. Yes, here. There you go.

That's fucking hysterical. That town in town it's just a like a house lot of grass and trees you can't put a water line up to a property here for 7500 no no you can't do anything for 7500 7500. $7,500. It's all yours. So there you go, everybody. That is so fucking funny to me. This is the place to be. That's unbelievable. I can't believe that's a deal. I'm the skeptical guy that when I show up to buy that, I'd be like, there's an extra

zero missing somewhere, right? There's people buried in there, right? Here's a bunch of bodies. When I go to dig the house up, it's going to beian burial right i have to like fresh ones there's still skin on things to do in this town 75 it's fucking ridiculous that's ridiculous it's so dumb things to do in this town, May 24th through May 27th. Don't miss the big Webster County Woodchopping Festival. Oh, boy. Oh, baby.

Each Memorial Day weekend, the Southern U.S. World Championship Woodchopper title is won at the annual Woodchopping Festival. Somebody loses a disc in their back. Oh, I'm sure. Choppers come from as near as the scenic mountains of Webster County and as far away as Australia and New Zealand to come compete to the wood chopping festival. People get on a plane for that shit. Wow, that's a long ride, too. And also, October 6th, don't miss the burgoo cook-off. The what?

From 10 a.m. to 4 a.m. Burgoo? Burgoo. Like the beginning of burger, burg, and then oo at the end of it. No. Which I don't like. I don't want that cook-off. Want to know what that is?

I don't. Oh, I'm going to tell you, Jimmy. Burgoo, I assume this is a local delicacy. Burgoo is a highly seasoned stew made of any combination of foul game, other meats, and vegetables. It's shit. Whatever you find dead outside, scoop it up and stuff it in the fucking pot. That's burgoo, apparently. Wow.

It's a fucking, it's a roadkill cook-off. What the fuck is that? Rickets and scurvy. Say that name again. Burgoo. Burgoo. B-U-R-G-O-O cook-off. That's disgusting.

It sounds gross. No. You can win $500, though, so scrape the raccoons up off the double yellow and let's get going, baby. Entry fee's only $10. Wow. Oh, man. You got to pay to get into this shit. Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's not free, baby. Come on, now. Crime rate here. Property crime. It's about a third higher than the average. So that makes sense. They need to steal your pets to put in their burgo, I guess. I don't know what they're doing.

Violent crime. Fucking burgo. Burgo. That's sense. They need to steal your pets to put in their burgo, I guess. I don't know what they're doing. Violent crime. Fucking burgo. Burgo. That's terrible. Violent crime. That's disgusting. I've never heard of that before. I mean, there was a guy at a Jack in the Box restaurant here.

I still think about it. I can't believe Jack in the Box shook the story ever. There was a guy that fucking, it's so gross. He hacked into a burger for a cop and the cop found it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you remember that story? That's a burgoo to me. That's a burgoo.

No, there's a festival built around this. I can't believe Jack in the Box ever shook that story. That's disgusting. With a grand prize and everything. Yeah, and you got to pay to get in. Jesus. Violent crime here. Murder, rape, robbery, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of horrible things you could do to people uh it's a little more than a third higher than the national average so they're they're doing some crime here in this town uh which kind of makes sense honestly because anywhere you go in these towns where it's uh a poorer town a lot of times a little higher crime rate especially property crime and stuff like that desperate they're desperate. They're desperate. They're desperate. And there are, let's talk about some desperate people, shall we? There's some desperate people that we need to get into. A couple, a couple named Julia and Michael Serbaugh.

Okay. They're a married couple. Yeah. Living in Webster Springs, West Virginia. It's brutal. Brutal. Yeah. They're smelling the sulfur.

They don't like it. They don't like burgoo. Right. Actually, Julia is a top-tier burgoo chef. Oh, really? Yes, she studied. I imagine around that time. She studied at the Culinary Institute.

The town finally smells a little better. I would think. Like, I'll bet burgoo smells better than sulfur. Oh, yeah. Maybe that's why. They need to cook something strong to overcome. It's like rubbing shit under your nose. Exactly.

Yeah. To overcome the smell of the sulfur. I'm making burgoo. I know it smells like eggs. I heard you. the smell of the sulfur. I'm making burger. I know it smells like eggs. I heard you. Reginald, I heard you, God damn it. I'm making it. I put roadkill in and I know it smells strong.

I get it. That's how it started. It's where the ladies there beg for a dirty Sanchez just to make themselves smell a little bit better. Please, God, I need it because I can smell nothing but sulfur. Now, they're married, Julie and Michael. Michael is a science teacher at Webster County High School. So he's teaching science. Nice couple, small town.

You know, your typical deal here. Problem is, as we go into later on here, you know, they're married for a few years. They have a couple of kids, younger kids. So, you know, they're just a normal couple. I mean, typical small town couple is what it sounds like. Married, two kids, a few years. They have a couple of kids, younger kids. So they're just a normal couple. I mean, typical small town couple is what it sounds like. Married, two kids, a whole deal. Working hard. He's a teacher.

He's a science teacher. Yeah. It's always the fun guy, too. You know what I mean? The science teachers were always cool. Yeah, science teachers were cool. History teachers were cool sometimes if they were interested in what they were teaching because they could really get into it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, math teachers were never fun, usually. Yeah, yeah. My science teacher was, he failed me. And then I had to go to another class. Let's not say he failed, I think you failed, Jimmy. I failed me. You failed yourself, Jimmy.

He gave me the F that sent me to the next class. That's what happened. That's nice, that was good of him. But he used to go play golf, and he used to watch people get angry and break clubs, and then he would take the club, like the shaft of the club. And then he had like a fucking rack of them in the class. And we'd be dead fucking silent taking a test with all our heads down.

And he had a big Samsonite briefcase. And he would take one of the clubs out and like rub it on his hand to make sure nobody was looking. If they see him, he'd put it back. Like if somebody smiled or something while he was rubbing. Whatever. And then he would just fucking, yeah, and slam it on the briefcase. Oh, just to be a character. Make the most horrible noise ever and scare the shit out of him.

Just to be a character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to break up the monotony and the tension, I guess. I don't know. Interesting. Just to ease the fucking- Just to break your concentration. Yeah, to keep me from thinking about magma and molten rock and fucking earth science.

Oh, Jesus Christ. What the fuck just happened? Okay, where was I now? Four minutes left, everybody. What the fuck just happened? Okay, where was I now? Four minutes left, everybody. What the fuck is wrong? What kind of sadistic lunatic is this guy? Mr. Hunter, he was amazing. I miss him.

You crazy bastard. I wish I was still in high school just to high five him and tell him he was amazing. Just to high five him. Even though he failed me, he was amazing. Well, that's a good attitude. I failed me. You failed you, Jimmy. He simply wrote a letter on a page.

That's all he did. He just reported my failure to somebody else. You failed me, Jimmy. He simply wrote a letter on a page. That's all he did. He just reported my failure to somebody else. You did all the other work. Yeah, exactly. This is like getting mad at a reporter for telling you a bad story. He asked me about, we were about to take the final, which even if I got all the answers right on the final, I was still going to fail. Like that's how bad I was failing. It didn't matter at this point.

on the final, I was still going to fail. Like, that's how bad I was failing. It didn't matter at this point. He asked me the day before the final. He gave me the most come-to-Jesus talk ever. He goes, Wisman, after class. And I was like, all right, cool. So the bell rings.

Everybody files out. I wait, and I go to his desk, and he goes, I just want to ask you, what the fuck do you think happens after high school? And I was like, what are you talking about? I don't know what you mean. He's like, you have to go out into the world after this. Just telling you. He knew then that I was a dipshit. You were going to be a disaster.

He's like, you're a fucking disaster. You're never going to amount to shit. I fear you're going to handle life as well as this class. Understand? I feel like. He knew more about me than my own psychiatrist just by watching me fuck off yeah so i feel like this is a this is foreshadowing for later i really do i feel like you're gonna fail your life final that's what i'm getting he said to me what the fuck do you think

happened he used the f word and i was giggling my balls off and i didn't even take it to heart until i was out of high school and i was like that guy was fucking right i balls off, and I didn't even take it to heart until I was out of high school. And I was like, that guy was fucking right. I'm a dummy. I didn't realize that. I've done nothing right. I've fucked everything up here. Maybe if I had paid attention, I'd know why we have a North and South Carolina.

Oh, my God. That's awesome, man. Yeah, science teachers are always weird. They're the best. Yeah, they are usually cool. They're always the coolest guy. They always have some sort of wacky, like, they're into, I don't know. They're just quirky and cool.

Exactly, yeah. They want to find that weird thing that, why does this work? Yeah, they want to show you, like, watch, I can make this thing fly. Right, right. See why that is? It's one of those. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, Leesa Mattresses.

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He found another teacher to get involved with. Oh, my man. He likes biology. So, yeah, I'm not sure what she was teaching, but Janet Morton was teaching at the school also. This is in July of 2008. They begin an affair, Michael and Janet Morton. So now Morton is an interesting gal because, I mean, from the outside, you're like, okay, this is a small-town married couple. And then he's a teacher, and he's going to have a little small-town affair with a married woman.

And they're going to, you know. That old chestnut. Yeah, and it's got kind of a, you know, and it's got kind of a, you know, you picture it's kind of sweet almost, you know what I mean, or something like that. Or even worse, either that or you picture like Matthew Broderick in Election, that sort of thing, which is kind of sad instead. But Janet's a different kind of lady, let's just say.

Does she have a dick? Well, not quite. Okay. But she does freely admit to snorting meth at least four to five times a week for three to four years. So she's a fucking party. That's what he likes. She likes meth a lot. Yeah.

She's real into meth, this Janet Morton. She likes meth. And Michael starts to dig on the meth, too. Oh, no. He's like, all right, yeah the meth too. Oh no. He's like alright yeah. No. Well yeah he's got he's a science teacher maybe he knows how to make it. You've got a point. It is West Virginia too. I mean I'm sure there is

not it wouldn't be the lone meth lap going on in the state is what we're getting at. Science and chemistry go hand in hand. Exactly. Exactly. This guy could be the hero of a town over here. So she's pretty much she admits she's addicted to a town over here. So she's pretty much, she admits she's addicted to meth at this point. So she's addicted to meth and has been

addicted to meth for, you know, three to four years when she gets together with Michael and just kind of takes him into her orbit. You know, I figure like it's a Tasmanian devil and something gets sucked into the thing or a vortex. A Heathcliff fight, you know, in the cartoon. They roll and like a car gets put in.

Her hand comes up. It's just a big cloud and shit. Yeah, shit going on. It's one of those, I figure. That's her life. Anybody who's very much a meth addict, that's how I figure their whole life is. Just a turbulent cloud with a hand and a shoe. And different directions where a hand and a shoe shouldn't be.

And it'll suck whatever goes by. If there's any of the garbage can, it's getting sucked right into the mix. Another person, it's getting sucked right into the mix. That's how I figure people's brains are because that's how meth looks to me. Yeah. Like, it's just a panic. It's nuts. With an exclamation point above it, a question mark, a hashtag, pound sign, whatever the

fuck that is. And he doesn't see this as a red flag. What? He's looking and he's like, all right, well, he meets her. He works with her and all that. And he's like, I'm going to start an affair with that meth addict teacher. Yeah, that this as a red flag. What? He's looking and he's like, all right. Well, he meets her. He works with her and all that. And he's like, I'm going to start an affair with that meth addict teacher. Yeah, that seems like a good idea. I really like her tits.

But does she do meth? I don't know if maybe he thought she was like fun or if that was like if he was like somebody who like needed to. It's exciting. Get out of the monotony. It's possible. She was a crazy one. And not only that, she's doing meth and all that. He might have been like, OK, well, this is exciting, I guess.

I don't know. He's not happy with his life. Look how little she gives a fuck. She does meth. Yeah. How hot is that? Maybe that's what it is. I don't...

Imagine being in that place. I don't get that. Because when I see that dirt cloud going by with arms and shit sticking out, I'm just like, ooh, I'm taking three steps back. I'm not getting involved in that. I'm walking away. Yeah, I'm not. Some people are so attracted to chaos, though. They are. It's just like, I'm taking three steps back. I'm not getting involved in that. I'm walking away. Yeah, I'm not. Some people are so attracted to chaos, though. They are. It's just they can't help it.

It's true. It's from their childhood, whatever. It's psychological. They are attracted to chaos and they need it. And I feel like he's one of these guys where he's like a small town school teacher with two kids in a night. I feel like he's like, no, this is too easy. Too predictable. Oh, good. There's a cloud going by.

I'm going to jump on it and see what those arms are attached to in there. They keep popping out. I want to see that. That's amazing, though. I can't believe somebody would just fucking throw away just normal, easy life for just turbulence like that. Yeah, no, that's it there. Now, she said, Janet would say, like, they get together, and she says while they're together, he only snorted. This is what she says, which is not true, that he only snorted meth one time with her. She said that he may have smoked pot around her three or four times, but she said he didn't, quote, abuse cannabis around her.

Don't use the words abuse and cannabis in the same sentence if you're smoking meth. Fuck you. Don't. Just don't. Don't say that. You're doing, shut up with the meth, okay? And by the way, when you say abuse cannabis, you whistle both S's because you're missing T. Yeah, so let's just don't say it.

Stop doing it. Keep that shit to yourself. He also said that once in a while he would, well, this is amazing, he would, quote, finish her lines to help her with her addiction problem. What? Like, let me clean that up for you, honey, so then there's not more for you to do. That's ridiculous. You did, you know, nine-tenths of a gram, but I'm going to get that extra little bit there to help you. I'm going to help you.

We're going to slowly wean you off little bits of the line at a time. I'm going to drink those three beers out of your 12-pack while you drink the other night. To help you with your addiction. You know what that is? That's a drinking partner. That's who that is.

He just doesn't drink as much as you. You know what you do? You do meth together. Right. You're just a little more into it than him. That's it. It takes more to fuck you up than it takes to fuck him up. That's it.

If we hung out and drank a 12-pack and you drank nine and I had three, I'm not helping you. No, you're my drinking buddy. I'm your drinking buddy. You're just more of a drunk than I am. That's it. Period. That's it. You guys are doing meth together like it's a party. She just happens to be more into it. You guys are doing meth together. Like it's a party.

She just happens to be in more anyway. You guys are partying together. You just party harder. That's it. He just finishes her lines. He can stay up that. She's up all night. He's smoking a little weed.

He's going to nod off at 1130. She's like, shit, no. He's staying up to fuck you before he goes back to his wife. She's like, no, we're going to fuck. We're going to take the TV apart. We're going to walk to the next town. We're going to fuck you before he goes back to his wife. She's like, no, we're going to fuck. We're going to take the TV apart. We're going to walk to the next town. We're going to walk back. We got plans tonight, man.

I got a lot of plans. We'll try to put the TV back together, but we know that's not going to work. We'll have extra parts. It won't work. That's all right, though. We'll see what's in there, though, because I've always wondered what's in there. And I know they're hiding something. We'll take the TV.

I know they're hiding something. We'll take the TV. I know they're hiding something inside that TV. We're going to find the secret to the real town name in there. Buried deep inside the TV. Somebody put the best recipe for burgoo inside that fang yo. Open that shit up. I want that burgoo recipe.

What am I supposed to use? It says foul but that could be any. Varmint? Can I use varmint? Does that count? Does that mean we use the water so it smells foul? Open that shit up.

We need to know. For goo. Holy Christ. Oh, man, this is amazing. So March 8th, 2009. Things are getting hot and heavy. He's still married to Julia, obviously. She doesn't really know that this is happening, but he's having an affair with a meth-addicted fellow teacher.

Very fun stuff here. Good times for Michael Serbaugh. On March 8th, 2009, they're driving. Janet is driving her car. It's on Rockhouse Road. It's in the area of the Mano Gehala National Forest, which is still a better name than anything they've come up with. Now, Michael is a passenger in her

car. They arrive at his car. Apparently, he had his car parked in the forest and she was driving him back to his car. That was the meet-up spot. I have no idea. Maybe they were going there to fuck because it's an affair. It's an illicit affair. Whatever. Maybe they're going there to have sex and then they're going off It's an illicit affair. You know, whatever. Maybe they're going

there to have sex and then they're going off to smoke some meth and they're going to come back. I don't know what they're doing. But snort some meth anyway. They parked their cars apart so they could walk from one car to the other and then drive back. Well, she drove him up here because his car was just there by itself and she drove him to the car

from a completely separate location and when they arrived there, the National Forest Service, there was officers from the National Forest Service by his car. They end up searching his car, and they found quite a few things. They find marijuana, drug paraphernalia, but not like a – they found a weed pipe, but they also found like meth shit, residue and that sort of thing. Brillo pads and shit? Yeah, I think a pipe with residue and then a weed pipe, but they also found meth shit, residue, and that sort of thing. Brillo pads and shit? Yeah, I think a pipe with residue and then a weed pipe also. So he ended up pleading guilty to that charge of getting a citation for it and ended up pleading guilty for it. Now he's got to tell the wife why he was with that woman.

Yeah, now he's got to tell the wife. Well, not really, because it's just at his car, but why was your car in the forest? Why was your car in the forest? Packed with fucking drugs. She knows he smokes weed, I'm sure. He's you know it's your wife he does that around the house that's yeah he's not he's smoking weed but but yeah the what's up with the meth pipe right why were you out there right who knows what she's she's gonna have questions who were you with is number one though yeah you come home arrested your wife's got questions i'm sorry there's just

who are you with is going to be the first thing. It's not going to be, oh, you know, Bill from the math department. No, Bill wasn't out there in the forest with you. What's happening? That sounds like meth-addicted woman behavior there to hang out with you in the forest. May 22, 2009, it gets worse for him. This is just he's kind of falling apart, this guy. Think about just a together guy. He's got his wife, and he's a science teacher in a small town

and he's banging his golf club on the desk to distract the kids. He's calling Jimmy a fuck up. And now he's hanging out with this woman and they're doing meth and things are starting to slowly unravel for him. May 22nd, 2009 he's at school

and they have the police are at school just walking around with the dogs and stuff. And what they end up finding, they get a dog hit. The dog gets a hit on Michael's car in the parking lot. Jesus, at school? While they're walking around at school. What the fuck? While they're walking around with the dogs.

So, yeah, they end up searching the car. Meanwhile, this school, this town has fucking. The police are on top of shit here. They've got some money because they've got dogs and shit. This is crazy. It's the county, I think, here. It's the county. It's the county sheriff.

And this, I mean, West Virginia is absolutely choking with drugs. So it's one of those things where like. So they know they've got a drug problem. Drug dogs are, yeah. West Virginia is like the fucking ground zero of prescription drug issues and meth and everything else. Gotcha. I get it. They're going to say, we're not that bad. Yes, you are. You're terrible meth and everything else. I get it. They're going to say, we're not that bad. Yes, you are.

You're terrible. You're terrible. I get it. Other states are terrible, too. You're saying, we're not Arkansas. You are Arkansas. I'm sorry. You're both terrible.

And we're terrible here, too. Yeah. Ever been to Kingman? It's terrible. It's just meth shed after meth shed. Yeah, it's awful. Trust me. We're not looking down.

We're just telling you the facts. You look at historical famous people, you will not find a shit one of them from Kingman, Arizona. No, no. Because those people, they just know their lot in life. And it's a meth shed and no teeth. That's it. They know it.

There's a trailer waiting for me. Oh, God. It's depressing up there. Sorry. There are some parts of northern Arizona that are beautiful. Unbelievable. There are some parts that are the most are beautiful. Unbelievable. The most depressing from Sedona to Kingman. You can't get any

more different places on the spot. And as you go there, you feel the economical decline. Oh, yeah. Just looking at the houses nearby, you just go, it's getting worse. You just get sad as you drive and you go, people live here. But meanwhile, the scenery is

fucking incredible. Oh, yeah, yeah. But meanwhile, the scenery is fucking incredible. Oh, yeah, yeah, it is. There's nothing more beautiful. If you wiped out those trailer parks and those Carl's Jr. restaurants, it'd be terrific. It'd look so nice. It would look so great. The red dirt and red rocks, it's gorgeous.

So here he's having problems. He wishes he was in Kingman at this point because things are not great for him. They search the car, and they find 14 grams of weed, so a half ounce. Find a half ounce of weed, a bunch of different prescription drugs of various types, which is, that's just given to you in West Virginia. That's just par for the course. You get a birth certificate and a bunch of prescription drugs. That's what you get.

And also loaded.22 caliber pistol. Oh, that's not good. Also, which you probably shouldn't bring to school. No. And a shitload of knives in his car or whatever. That's West Virginia. Who knows? He was just-

He was throwing those at the tree at the fucking recess for the kids. That was in case there was a Sasquatch running back to his car. He was not expecting to find the Forest Service guys. He was expecting possibly a Sasquatch, and he was going to take him down with his.22 and his knife. So he's arrested for possession of a controlled substance and marijuana, and they end up—they do not charge him for the gun for some reason. I don't know if it's registered or legal or whatever, but they don't charge him for it.

I don't think it was supposed to be—I think it was supposed to be unloaded in his car. That was probably the loophole, but they said, fuck it, he's got pills and everything else, so why not? This shit's bad enough. the loophole, but they said, fuck it, he's got pills and everything else, so why not? This shit's bad enough. Yeah, so he's placed out, he's bonded out, and he's going to have to go to trial September 16th, 2009 on this whole thing. I mean, that's such a dumb law. It is.

What's the point of having a weapon if it has to be unloaded? It's stupid, yeah. Oh, he's got a loaded weapon. It fucking better be. Well, yeah. Well, still, if someone's pointing a gun at you and it was unloaded, I'd have it be unloaded than loaded that's the thing yeah you can be you can make a more okay there's two sides to this one you can more easily protect yourself two you can also make a more rash decision getting bullets and putting them in a gun is like should i really do this

click maybe not okay never mind to figure it out grabbing the gun you motherfucker that's really fast and this isn't the only thing that's been going on with him it's not like everything else Maybe not. Okay, never mind. You've got a lot of time to figure it out. Grabbing the gun. You motherfucker. That's really fast. And this isn't the only thing that's been going on with him. It's not like everything else is fine. He's, you know, Johnny Upstanding. And then at night they're like, he got arrested for drugs and meth? What the hell's going on? Not Michael.

Right. It's not like that at all. People are really starting to notice his downfall here. His erratic behavior because he's doing fucking meth tons of meth just tons of it i miss a neighbor ann wilson uh the uh hopefully not the lady from heart let's hope she hasn't fallen to uh oh my god i didn't even think about that to living in webster springs west virginia next to these fucking dildos here thank you love heart heart's great so uh, chicks rock, man. Jesus. So, Ann Wilson here testifies in a beautiful, beautiful singing voice.

She testifies that things went into a tailspin for Julia and Michael's marriage in the whole, just since he started dating Janet, basically. Since he's been introduced to meth. Since summer of 2008, he's been acting funny. He's like, since he's been banging another teacher and doing meth, basically. Since he's been introduced to meth. Since summer of 2008, he's been acting funny. It's like, since he's been banging another teacher and doing meth, yeah, that'll make you do funny. That'll do it. She said that the marriage had started to fall apart between those two. She also said that Michael, during this time, would have horrible mood swings around neighbors that people would notice. And that his language degenerated to, quote, verbal cussing.

Well, how the fuck else do you do it? Yeah. I guess it pulled up a sign. Fuck. Finger gestures, fucking spell it out in sign language. Of course it's verbal cursing. He's going to be swearing a bit because he's fucking going through withdrawals. Yeah, so apparently he's just gone from being an articulate guy

to being a guy who just got home from withdrawals. Yeah. So apparently he's just gone from being like an articulate guy to being a guy who like just got home from the army. Fantastic. I like it. And his grandmother's like, what the hell is he talking about? That's basically what it is here. She said, quote, you never know. This is Ann Wilson.

Quote, you never know, knew from one moment to the next what kind of mood he was in. She said he had a temper. He used foul language of the small sons. He would yell at them using abusive language. By her description, I'm on meth. Yeah, you're on a ton of meth. There's more things to this. But yeah, she said that his temper was terrible and he was very volatile and that he verbally abused Julia also. She described his temper as explosive. That's the best adjective she could deliver on that one, explosive. So that makes sense here. Other people started noticing some things.

One time, now Ann Wilson's involved in this. She saw this and also a neighbor named Gary Weir. They describe a really strange thing here. I guess. What a terrible name. Gary Weir. Yeah. Sounds like a dude that fucks with his socks on. It's a jerky voice guy.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's a jerky voice. Sounds like a dude that fucks with his socks on with a push broom mustache. Oh, yeah. I hate it. I feel terrible to judge him. Does he keep his suspenders too? Yeah. Just like clips them to the loose skin above his ass. Clips them to his boxers and just goes out the hole in the front.

I feel like it's more efficient that way. It's more efficient that way. loose skin above his ass. He clips into his boxers and just goes out the hole in the front, I feel like. It's more efficient that way. It's more efficient that way. Ah, what a terrible fucking view I just got. Clips into his boxers. And goes out the hole in the front. With black socks.

My Christ. Black socks with terrible elastic. It's falling down. They're not even like- Just one of them. The other one stays up well. Because he only gets black socks because they all match, but sometimes he gets the one that he hasn't worn very much, but he gets the other one that he's overworn every goddamn time.

Yeah. Oh, boy. Okay. Poor Gary Weir. Poor Gary Weir here. This poor guy. He's just a nice guy who was a longtime friend of Michael and went boating with him down the Elk River one day here.

I just saw him. You know you saw him. I saw him standing on the front of the boat with one sock up, one sock down. With one foot up like Washington Gruss in the Delaware. I saw him going, king of the world. He's king of the world.

Is he Washington or DiCaprio? With his dick out the front of his boxers. Yeah, that's the king of the world. That's going to be DiCaprio, not George Washington. For sure. I never thought of George Washington with his dick sticking out of his boxers so uh oh my god they go out they go drinking yeah uh they go well they're going boating down the elk river there and apparently michael's been drinking a lot michael's been putting him away sure as you know he's not

doing mess you do on a boat as you do on a boat especially if you're jonesing for some meth so you're like I'll have another beer sure so Weir said that basically he was trying to see if he was okay to drive once they got back in West Virginia it's a little skewed I think as far as are you okay to drive

I'm sure it's a lot further than where I see it he's walking he's good he said his name I'm sure it's a lot further than where I see it. He's walking. Right. He's good. He's good. He said his name. He said, Weir said that Michael appeared to be, quote, fine, which is, you know, he fell down once or twice, but he knew where the general direction of his car. He put the keys in. Yeah.

He said during the half hour journey, when they went back to Webster Springs, his driving got terrible, apparently. Michael started, because I guess they took his car. Michael started driving poorly, had a hard time keeping the car on the road. It's called drunk. Yeah, exactly. Well, I guess he was fine at first, and then he started getting bad as they were driving, which is super weird here.

Or maybe he just drank a few beers really fast before they left. Or he took some pills, because he likes prescription pills. Oh, that's a good point, too. Chased him with a couple of beers, and now he's trying to stay on the road, wandering back and forth. Takes a minute for that shit to take effect. Yeah. His speech was slurred, apparently, at this point, too. It's like, whoa, he appeared fine.

We got in the car. Now he's slurring and going off the road. Now, all of a sudden, he's Tiger Woods. Yeah. What is going on? What's going on here? So is there a Hooters waitress in the trunk, or what's happening here? So they arrive at Michael's residence, the two of them here.

Apparently, he staggered. What ends up happening is Michael staggers to the wrong house. Wow. He staggers over to the Wilson residence. He's at the wrong house, basically. Ann Wilson sees him, says his eyes were really glassy. He didn't look right. So they're like, you're at our house, whatever.

So he then says, OK. Michael says, all right. Gives Ann Wilson a big hug and gives her husband a big hug and thank them for, quote, being so good to his sons and then wanders back away. OK. So he's you just come outside. Your neighbor comes up all fucked up slur. And he's like, I hate you.

Oh, you're so soft. And he says, thank you for being so nice to my sons and then he just wanders away you're like what the fuck just happened there you go inside and go can you believe that shit just happened what is going they're like whoa i mean a small town too everyone heard about this by the next and they don't see that very often like i've got a neighbor that drinks pretty heavy and he says some funny shit from time to time like this could happen at my house i could see that very often. Like, I've got a neighbor that drinks pretty heavy and he says some funny shit from time to time. Like, this could happen at my house. I could see that happen.

By the way, after he hugged them, he started to walk away. He began, quote, sobbing uncontrollably, which has nothing to do with anything. Then pissed in their front yard. Yeah, probably. Then pissed on their tree. And they're like, I think he's crying. Should we talk to him? Oh, he's peeing now.

I don't think so. He's peeing on the tree. Don they're like, I think he's crying. Should we talk to him? Oh, he's peeing now. I don't think so. He's peeing on the tree. Don't say shit to him. Stop. He's got one black sock on. Stop. He's king of the world. Damn it.

It's all right. When he leaves, go spray that shit down. Yeah, just spray it down. It's all right. So his friend Gary Weir, this poor, long-suffering Gary Weir here, another time they were at a poker game. Michael, Gary Weir. He went and hung out with him again. Oh, this is – yeah, they're neighbors.

They're friends. That's – you live in a – Oh, my God. There's no one else around. I don't know. There's 700 people around. You hang out alone then if that's your friend. Yeah, I'm hanging out with that guy.

Jesus. All right, go on. They had set plans to poker game. Yeah. They have set nights here, Jimmy. There's other guys there. He's like, maybe he won't make a fool of himself. Maybe he'll, all right, go on. They had set plans to poker game. They have set nights here, Jimmy. There's other guys there. He's like, maybe he won't make a fool of himself. Maybe he'll be all right.

So apparently the game is in progress. They're all playing. There's a news report on TV of a big drug bust in Webster County. Okay. And Michael became irate about this and started flipping out saying, it's wrong to arrest these people. They're only hurting themselves. You know, what the fuck?

This is bullshit. And a few of the other guys, because, I mean, that's almost you're you're you're you're treading close into politics at this point to where not a fun poker game conversation where everybody's going to freak out. By the way, other countries, as we've noticed this by talking to a Canadian the other day, other countries, most you guys can talk about politics and just say some stuff and you go, oh, wow, that's interesting. And you talk back and forth and that's the end of it.

That doesn't happen here. The second, it's not even, you don't even have to disagree much. The second you say like, I don't like that stop sign down on Main Street, fuck you. No. It'll make fucking everything crazy if we take it down. You know what the blacks are going to do then? They're going to run rampant over everything. And then someone's going, whoa, what are you talking about?

And the next thing you know, it's involving Trump and this one and that one. And it's Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton. And you're like, what the? They're talking about email servers. What happened? I just said I think that we should have free-flowing traffic on Main Street. This is batshit. And then somebody just goes, Benghazi!

And a door slams. And then everybody's like, what the fuck? That's America. Oh, beautiful, spacious skies, everyone. So that's who we're talking about. We can't discuss this for five seconds without it turning into a fracas. But the thing about, like, comedy is very much like politics, that like everything's funny until it happens to you.

You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Like once somebody's offended by something, all bets are off. Shit's going to go crazy. Yeah. So you have to be offended by nothing. It's much better. You have to just be like, who gives a fuck?

Who cares? So other people start arguing with him, saying that the children weren't safe with the drugs around us. Children! Right. Not safe with the drugs. That's a red flag, by the way, for all your buddies just going, when you say stuff like that, like they're only hurting themselves. It's like, what drug are you on right now, bro?

Because you just told us, basically. It's definitely the meth. Apparently it was normal. Weir says it was normal for Michael to, like, discuss shit with people. Okay. But not to become, he became insanely angry and started stomping around the house. He became so negative that the card game broke up from it. What the fuck?

They were all like, well, I'm going home. I've had about enough of this asshole. Wow. You really got to fuck up to break up a poker game. You really got to be a dick. I mean, if you freak out over that shit, I could see a poker game just being like, let's just call it a night, guys. It's about 10.30. I'm going to get home now.

Anne's across the street. She's waiting for me. So this is like this is not normal behavior for him though. That's what I mean. This is not like well Michael again. This is just since 2008 that this has happened and we're in 2009. Another neighbor

Deb White old Deb. She said she was very concerned about he had dramatic changes in his personality over the course of a year that was concerning to her. She actually contacted this woman, contacted the Women's Aid in Crisis Center to figure out, to try to help Julia just figure out what kind of services this center had to help Julia out. But is that just out of the blue?

Just on spec she did that. That's crazy. I think he's being a – I'm going to call the women aiding crisis. I'm going to just give Julia a list of options. What if Julia likes this shit? What if this shit turns her on? Well, yeah, maybe – if he's not abusing her, maybe she just likes assholes. You're allowed to –

What if she likes when he insults her? You're allowed to be with someone who's an asshole like that's allowed that's fine physical abuse there's something that's drawing you to that and it's not good for you and we need to help you or even mental abuse but if he's just kind of a dick that's you know some people like people are kind of a dick i'm kind of a guy because nobody's gonna come try to rape me because who knows what this fucking guy's capable he's gonna be yelling about drug bustss and Sasquatch and give me my knives back. It's insane.

Yeah, she said, but she said she had seen, she said she had seen, quote, domestic abuse in the Surbaugh residence, but didn't give any specific instances of like, I saw him punch her. But I mean, who knows? I mean, whatever it is. This kind of behavior, I kind of expect him to be probably beaten on his wife a little. Yeah. She said all she saw of him was that he was losing his temper all the time.

He would slam things. He would drink excessively. And he would yell and scream and curse at Julia, which none of these things are terrific at all. I mean, that's- It's the house I grew up in, but none of it's great. I was going to say, it's not out of the ordinary, but it's... If everyone...

We're not going to say, because, I mean, we don't know if he's abusing her or not at that point. We have no idea. We know that he's yelling at her. That's the only thing. Right. And he's on meth and he's an asshole, so this is what's going to happen. He would accuse her of things that weren't true. You know, affairs and that sort of thing. As people who are on meth and having affairs

probably do. You mean he's getting a little paranoid? Yeah, he's paranoid and everything else. And he smokes weed too and paranoia is a fucking problem with that stuff. It's kind of how you feel when you... Not usually. Some people. I'll say that. Put it this way. I'm going to give you this. If you're a calm person who's not normally full of anxiety

and you smoke weed, you're more likely to be paranoid okay if you're a real anxiety ridden person if you're high strung and you smoke weed less likely to be paranoid it's very strange that that would be i'm incredibly anxious all riddled with anxiety yeah when i smoke weed heightens it i hate it i enjoy smoking like i like to get, but I don't like to get stoned. You know what I mean? Like, when I'm fucking stoned, that wave of anxiety that comes over me, I can't take it. I can't do it. I'll fucking two, three hits, I'm good.

I'm great. But fucking sitting down and smoking? You haven't been able to partake in years anyway. So long, but whatever. I'm fine. Yeah. So, yeah. This guy, this is not weed behavior here.

He would accuse her of things that weren't true, become mean and angry, would scream at her, would yell at the neighbors. Like that's that's meth behavior. That's drinking and meth right there. He also yelled at this Deb White's son, Clark, one time. So, you know, that's that's he's starting to unravel a little bit. She also said that his physical appearance seemed different. He would sweat all the time. He lost a ton of weight.

This is just typical meth here. One time, James. He did meth once. Once. Boy, I just finished your lines a little bit because he's trying to help her. Right. She's too addicted, Jimmy. Also, he would have tremors and shake a lot. Pop marks all over his fucking face.

Which is also pills, too, if he's shaky, that sort of thing. Also, that he would. She said, and this is this sounds like bullshit. This sounds like this is just one of those things. She says this sounds like she's just a nosy. Yeah, I don't like to talk bad about it. Let me tell you what I'm about to talk about.

I'm about to talk so much shit about this guy here. She said that he always sat in a certain seat at the dining room table during the poker games. The poker games were apparently a big neighborhood thing here. She said in these months of 2009, after he's been with Janet for a while, the sweat from his body from leaning against it, quote, this is so stupid, quote, ate the varnish off the table. Now, I don't care how much meth you're doing. Right. I think that's in your head. Yeah.

He could have anybody just sitting on a rock. He's sweating acid. He's sweating varnish-eating acid. Like, come on. Oh, Christ. You over, come on, Deb. Yeah. Deb.

Come on, Deb. That's something she heard once from somebody. When you do meth, it makes your sweat turn into acid. So she's like, y'all heard? The chemicals come out of your pores and they eat the varnish off the table. That's why I can't have those people in your house. The word varnish, it's such a hillbilly term.

They just eat your varnish right off the table. Yeah, it was like they got a raw piece of wood and just slapped some varnish on it. And they went, that's a table now whoo uh so she also says that she went over to their house the serba's house at right after he had been arrested at school for the drugs here and she observed michael yelling at julia when julia mentioned that hey everyone knows you got arrested in town because there's 700 people here and you're a science teacher at the goddamn high school and you had fucking pills and drugs in your car.

You know, so she says that he gets mad, takes exception to that. How dare you? Deb apparently got herself in the mix of the argument because that's what you want to do when your meth-addled neighbors are arguing over his drug bust. You want to get right in the middle of it and go, now, everyone calm down. Deb said she took Julie aside and said that, you know, she said, look, everyone's talking about it. Then brought up an online site called Topics.

Do you know what this is? Oh, this bitch. It's like local people talk shit about each other. It's a sewing circle online. Right. It's an online dickhead sewing circle. Here, it's next door. Yeah.

It's a different thing. There's one here. It's the same shit. And I found all this shit on Topics, too. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, this is great. So we're not going to go over the whole deal, but she said, you know, that was, that Deb

ends up showing him the Topics discretion thread. He's like, bullshit. She's like, look. I got an iPad in my pocket. We're all talking about it. What are we doing? Because this is 2009. I mean, it's, you know, she's got an iPhone or whatever. She's like, look, I got an iPad in my pocket. We're all talking about it. What are we doing? Because this is 2009. I mean, it's you know, she's got an iPhone or whatever. She's like, it's right here. He gets super pissed off. Yeah. Super pissed off in a rage about it. Screaming that he's not on drugs. How fucking dare you? This is a drug behavior,

sir. What he ends up doing like a week later is he just walks up to Deb's house and walks up to her with paper and shoves a paper in her hand. And it's a toxicology report on him saying, see, I'm not on drugs. Like, I don't know. Wow. Pulled that out of his ass, I guess. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our sponsor, Blue Apron. As you may or may not know, Blue Apron is the leading meal kit delivery service in the entire United States.

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So check out this week's menu and get your $30 off with free shipping at blueapron.com. Blue Apron, a better way to cook. And now, back to the show. August 4th, 2009, he seeks counseling. Janet Morton goes with him to see a psychologist named Mike Morello. They go and he's getting counseling for substance abuse. Now, they're very happy

with themselves for doing this. They're proud of themselves, Jimmy. So, you know, maybe they'll get a meal. Let's be proud of themselves. No. What they do... How did he celebrate? To, quote, reward themselves for their progress and their recovery, they got a motel room and got a half gallon of vodka.

Half gallon of vodka. Oh, Christ. Oh, we're going to get so fucking sober, I'm going to drink this whole thing of vodka. This is awesome. I love being sober. Isn't it fun being sober? So much fun. I like my sober with orange juice.

I mix it together. It's really good that way. That's my sober. I like my sober with orange juice. I mix it together. It's really good that way. That's my sober. I like my sober with tonic. What the fuck? That's their celebration, so that's great. He's a complete dipshit.

August 5th, 2009. What a complete moron. This is his string of, this is August 4th, is this. Woo, I'm in rehab. Let's get some vodka. I love to celebrate. Not like a one last hurrah before we do this.

He's doing it. Literally, they were so excited with the progress of the recovery that they needed to get wrecked, which is the, I guess if you're a person who likes who likes to get fucked up, that's the only way you know how to celebrate anything. It's like it's I know people like that. Actually, we're not going to do meth. We're going to just drink a gallon of vodka, just drink till we're blacked out. And then we won't want meth.

Right. Because we're blacked out. We'll be too drunk to do meth. Too much. Too drunk to care. August 5th, 2009. Michael is forced to resign his employment as a teacher because he got busted with drugs on school property. This is August 5th.

This is the next day. Wow. So he's got a good vodka hangover to go in and do this. He smells like shit. Yeah. Worse than a sulfur shower. Oh, God. Like fucking vodka sweats and sex and cheap motel.

Oh, man. Vodka sweats and sex. And meth sex. You know? Vodka sweats and cheap motel sex. That's what it is. Cheap motel meth sex. Oh, Christ.

You need more into that. Oh, good Christ. That is awful. Dirty sheet sex. Fuck. Man. Now, the next day, he has to go clean out his shit from the school. Oh, no.

He has to clean out his classroom, all of his personal possessions. They fired him and were like, go home and sleep this hangover off. Come back, take a shower, drink some coffee, and get your shit tomorrow. And Julia helps him do it. Oh, fuck. She keeps her job. She's in the room with him. No, Julia's the wife. Julia's helping him. Oh, Julia's the wife.'s in the room with him no julia is the wife julia's

oh julia's the wife julia's helping him clean out his classroom right she's like you fucking you know she's cleaning his stuff out going i i smell i smell it she said that at some point of the day you fucking you fucking just shook her head fucking asshole but at the same time i don't think she knows about the day before with the half gallon of vodka but she probably i assure you she knows about going to the psychologist two days before and being quote in recovery yeah so she's probably thinking you know oh man you really she's like helping him like sweep up the glass shards of his life right now going oh it's okay yeah now you're in recovery so it's going to be better he was very loud and upset while he was doing it the whole time slamming drawers and slamming drawers bitches and bang he's blaming everybody else she's blaming him well once the

evening comes around and they get back home he thought about it for a while and you know like we said he needs someone to blame he decides it's all julia's fault everything that's gone wrong is all julia's fault uh she he said she set him up for his two arrests wow that was a clear setup by you obviously because clearly you're going to want to pay lawyer fees and court costs and everything because we're married it's the same goddamn money clearly you'd like you'd like to destroy our lives i feel and you're going to do that using me as a conduit for it, I guess. What an asshole. But with meth people, they're very paranoid, and the number one thing that they're paranoid about is that people that are close to them are trying to harm them. Sure.

Their family is trying to harm them, not somebody else. Right. It's a famous thing they always say. I heard this one dude that did a shitload of drugs, and he always said, with coke, you're thinking, you're like, oh, are the cops going to get me? Right. And you're, like, looking out the window. With meth, you're worried, like, your wife's going to kill you.

Yeah. Like, that's what you're worried about. You lock yourself in the bathroom. Yeah. You're worried that, like, people that are close to you are after you. It's a weird fucking thing. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't get it because I hate stimulants of all kinds. But that's, apparently, yeah. He also accused her. And we were like, I hope somebody fucking gets me. I don't care. Whatever, dude. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine.

It's fine. I hope they wait until after The Godfather. We're good. We're good. I have frozen pizza in the oven. Yeah. So I have two French bread pizzas in there. You guys can wait until that shit's done.

It's going to be 23 minutes. I like it a little crispy, so we're going a couple extra minutes. And then once I scrape all the burnt up gum from the top of my mouth, once my gums are melted, we'll get on going to jail. You guys can get me. That's right. So he accused her of trying to turn their two sons against him. Jesus.

Both of them. Yeah. You've had me arrested. You're trying to turn my sons against me, the whole deal. Now, there's conflicting reports that he possibly grabbed her arm and left bruises, but it's not confirmed here. He also became violent and would throw things and everything else. Julius says that he never hit her or never hurt her.

He said physically, never physically abused her like that, as far as hitting or actually hurting. What he decides this night, though, is you've ruined my life. Yeah. You've made me lose my job. You've had me arrested. You've made my kids hate me. We're getting a divorce. Yeah.

I want a divorce. Meth guy wants a divorce. I'm going to leave you, and I'm going to move in and be with Janet. Oh, no. I'm moving in with her. Only she gets my message. Is he breaking the news to her now? He's breaking the news now.

Okay. After he got all the shit out of the school, and they had a big fight, and he blamed her for everything. He's now telling her that he cheated on her. I'm not cheating. I'm leaving you for someone else. Right. We're done.

It's over. Which means, for sure, I cheated on you. Well, yeah. Why would you leave? I have a whim that me and this person might get along. She's going to be into it. Yeah. We might be into each other, but I'm not sure.

I'll leave you and find out. I'm going to show up on her doorstep and be like, I left my wife. No, no. You have that carpet laid out nice and smooth and all stapled down before you're leaving anybody. I guarantee you that is something that's never happened. That somebody left their wife, knocked on somebody's door and was like, hey, I'm here for you now. I left my wife.

Yeah, you know what? I know we've had nothing going on, but I sensed a vibe. What would tell you that? I caught a vibe. I feel like we were vibing. That look, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Unbelievable. The kids, luckily, are spending the night at a neighbor's house with friends.

But I guarantee you that has happened before. Oh, yeah. I guarantee you it's happened probably a thousand times to some woman that, I don't know, just was living her life. Yeah. And then some dude just shows up and is like, I left my wife for you. Well, what the fuck are we supposed to do now, idiot? I don't know you. All those talks we have and she's like, what are you talking about?

What the fuck are you talking about? I have no clue who you are. No clue. You work three cubicles down. I know nothing about you. We've never even had lunch together. I don't know you. He's like,? I have no clue who you are. No clue. You work three cubicles down. I know nothing about you. We've never even had lunch together. I don't know you. He's like, but I'm in love with you.

What the fuck? So the kids, the two boys are at a neighbor's house that night. They're spending the night at the neighbor's house, which is good. At least they're not hearing this awful fight, which is helpful. So they're over there. The morning of August 6, 2009. Morning begins with Julia calling 911. Uh-oh.

Okay. We'll find out why she called 911. In total, in the next little while here, there's going to be four total times she's going to talk to 911 dispatchers. What the fuck? In a minute here. Or someone on one of her friends here. She calls the first call to 911. P up the phone, calls 911, says, hi, Michael is trying to shoot himself.

Okay. And then hangs up the phone. Okay. Doesn't stay on the line. That's it. Just goes, Mike's shooting himself. Click. That's it.

Done. So you're the 911 operator. You're like, okay. Well, I don't know what the hell that was. Where the fuck did that come from? Right. So they call you back, obviously. Because that's what 911 does when you say someone's trying to shoot each other.

Because they have caller ID and shit. That's all. You know, they call you right back. She answers the phone. Yellow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, just like, how's it going?

Pete's taxidermy. She's just like, fucking whatever. Yellow. Just real relaxed. Right. And they're like, yeah, you called us and someone was trying to shoot themselves. And he goes, she went, yeah, Mike shot himself and then hangs up the phone. Okay.

So he did. She's saying at this point he shot himself. Okay. So she's like, okay. 911, oddly enough, is even more intrigued now. Weird. From trying to shoot himself to had shot himself. Right.

More intrigued. Right. They want more details. They got questions. They'd like a detail or two. Sure. even more intrigued now from trying to shoot himself who has shot himself more intrigued once they want more details questions they'd like a detailer to just mike shot himself isn't a lot of information to go off of so they'd like they call back again uh she answers again yes like we've already talked uh she said look michael shot himself i already told you that click and hangs up the phone she She doesn't get how 911 works. What the hell is she doing? You have to stay on the phone and tell them what's going on. So they call her back and they're like,

listen, asshole, we need to talk to you. But she doesn't answer. Julia. Ann Wilson. Ann Wilson answers the phone. Julia's like, I can't even talk to this guy. I told him he shot him. I don't know what more information they need. What do they want from me? What more do you want? He shot himself. That means shut up. He's shot now. Or not. We don't him. I told him he shot him. I don't know what more information they need. What do they want from me? What more do you want? He shot himself.

That means shut up. He's shot now. Or not. We don't care. I wanted you to know. Right. So Ann answers the phone. Ann Wilson. Now she's playing telephone between the 911 people and this lady.

She's saying that she's relaying her Julia story of how this happened to the 911 dispatcher. She's saying that Michael was trying to shoot Julia, and the gun accidentally discharged and struck him. Okay. Okay. Then, after that, she said that he intentionally shot himself in the head. Okay. He was shot three times in the face.

Jesus Christ. So it accidentally discharged and struck him three times in the face. I will say. That's pretty good. If that's true, that's some meth addict behavior. That's what a meth addict will do. But accidentally discharged and struck him three times in the face. That's pretty good.

I want more information. Yeah. Now, at this point, by the way, he's not dead. Three shots in the face. He is able to walk around and talk. He thinks he's fine. He walks out of the home. The neighbor helps him outside.

He goes and stands out in the front yard bleeding from the face with three gunshot wounds. What kind of gun? I think it's a.22. Oh, it's a.22 pistol. It's a.22. The emergency medical personnel show up. They show up. He says, my wife shot me.

He's going, what the fuck, man? This is crazy. He's telling the wife shot me. He's outside, but he's concerned with regular things. He goes and he's like, hey, can you guys go inside for me? Because that crazy one's in there. She's got a gun and everything. Why don't you go in and grab?

I need my cell phones. I got two phones. My glasses I'm going to need. My wallet. And can you grab me my chew too? My Christ. Smokeless tobacco. He wants all this.

He wants his chew. And also there's a plastic bag with some shit in it. Just grab all that stuff for me if you would. And they're like, okay. They bring it out to him. He's considered medically stable at the scene. My God. Three shots in the face.

Dan Moran is the paramedic, this guy's name. He says that he arrived there, and the guy, he said that when he arrived, this was after the initial guys arrived, Michael's sitting in a lawn chair in the front lawn with several gunshot wounds to the face, bleeding and blood everywhere. He's alert. He knows who he is. He said he knew what day it was. He was fine. He's that Indian from The Quick and the everywhere. He's alert. He knows who he is. He said he knew what day it was. He was fine. He's that Indian from The Quick and the Dead.

Jesus Christ. The paramedics said, quote, while he appeared worried, he was relatively calm. I'd say worried is a good thing. Are these gunshots bad? They feel like they're right in my face. They're right in my face? Did one miss me?

Did it graze me? It's a flesh wound. He's calm. They question him about trying to shoot himself because they're like, hey, your wife said you tried to attempt suicide. And he replied that he didn't shoot himself. Quote, she did. That's what he kept saying.

He kept saying it like pointing inside. She did. She did. At this point, he's stable. He's got good blood pressure, a good pulse rate, appropriate level of consciousness, they call it. He's fine. He's a medical marvel. He tripped and hit his knee.

So meth will protect you from gunshots to the face. Everyone, do meth. Fuck it. Unbelievable. I wonder why the Nazis were doing it so much. They're like, they can shoot us right in the face and we don't even know it. It's fine. I wonder why the Nazis were doing it so much.

They're like, they can shoot us right in the face and we don't even know it. It's fine. A Corporal Loffridge of the West Virginia State Police Department, he comes in and helps with the investigation here. He overhears Michael say, just to quote no one in particular, that, quote, the bitch shot me. He kept saying it over and over. That bitch shot me. Like he was surprised. She fucking fucking shot me. He kept saying that. That was his phrase over and over. The bitch shot me. Like he was surprised. She fucking, fucking shot me.

He kept saying, that was his phrase over and over. The bitch shot me. That bitch shot me. What the fuck, man? And I don't think that has anything to do with gender. That's to do with when someone shoots you, you go, you're a bitch.

You just shot me in the face. That bitch. That's asshole behavior. Unbelievable. So yeah, he's asking for, you know, he's asking for his dip and all that sort of thing, and he's just going to have a normal thing. Detective or Deputy Van Dever comes in. Van Der Veer.

Van Der Veer, thank you. No, it's not. It's Van Dever. Van Dev... Van Dev... Fuck. Deputy Van Devender is his name. Devender. Van, why are you trying to make it harder?

Van Devender. Van Devender. Okay. There's an E, there's a D in there. There's an extra D. He comes in and he hears, he asks, you know, what's going on? And the guy's sitting in the lawn chair and he says, my wife shot me. At this point, the cops arrive and he's talking on his cell phone.

Unbelievable. He's hanging out on the phone. He's got three gunshots in the face. None of the bullets penetrated his skull, but they all got in his sinus cavity area and all that. It's not pleasant. No. He's sitting there.

He's on the phone. Who's he on the phone with? He's on the phone with Janet. They have a weekend trip planned. What the fuck? They're going. They're supposed to go fishing and camping later on in the day and he's saying

my wife shot me so I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it. I don't know what's going on here. He said he literally said to her I think I'm going to be a little late for the trip. I'm going to be a little late. Got shot in the face three times but I'll pick you up. He said he told her I'll see you in a

little while though. I'll be there. Jesus. She's like alright. Michael got shot in the face I guess but i'll pick you up right he said he told her i'll see you in a little while though i'll be there jesus so she's like all right michael got shot in the face i guess like no problem he's just gonna picture him he thinks he's going camping sitting there on a fishing pole with three big gunshot wounds what the fuck the hell is wrong with you man so i feel i mean he's on meth that's what's wrong with him uh he's transported to webster uh memorial hospital county memorial hospital he's treated by a nurse here a nurse wolverton uh she said that he was That's what's wrong with him. He's transported to Webster Memorial Hospital, County Memorial Hospital. He's treated by a nurse here, a nurse Wolverton. She said that he was that he explains what happened in his mind here. He said he was asleep in his own bed and he felt like someone had hit him in the head with a baseball bat.

Yeah. And he said that's what it felt like. And that's that was the gunshot here. She shot him while he was in bed. Sure. He said he wanted while he was in bed. Sure. He said he wanted to go fishing and camping, and he was like, am I going to die or am I okay because I got a fishing and camping trip to get to? He was telling them, like, you know, what's going on here.

They got some meth squish to get up there. Yeah. She said that the nurse told him that he was probably not going to die. She said, I don't think you're going to die. You're walking around and talking when you arrived at the ER. A physician's assistant said that, you know, he asked him, are you sure you didn't do this to yourself? And he said, quote, I'm not crazy. I didn't do this.

That bitch shot me. That's his exact. God damn it. Why won't anyone listen to me? Nobody believes me. He also spoke to another physician, said the same thing. It felt like he got hit in the face with a baseball bat. The deputy with the horrible V last name here gets a recorded statement from him for the

whole thing. And he says, she shot me. That's what he's saying. The bitch shot me. The bitch shot me repeatedly. He's being prepared to be flown by helicopter to a larger hospital. He's in like a rural hospital here. He's got three in his fucking face, you guys.

Yeah. He's in like a rural hospital here. He's got three in his fucking face, you guys. Yeah. He's still talking. The deputy in his notes just kept saying on four to five different occasions, he said that his wife shot him, mostly referring to her as, quote, that bitch. That's in his notes. That's in his fucking notes. So, yeah, he takes. I love it.

This is great. So that's the official word. It felt like somebody hit me beside the head with a baseball bat. The whole deal. He said that he saw her with the gun and he felt he got hit in the head with a baseball bat, saw her with the gun, and then he took the gun from her. After that, the police said that during his formal statement, he appeared to be upset and mad and physically tired from being shot in the face. Yeah, that makes sense here. And upset physically tired from being shot in the face. Yeah, that makes sense here. And upset and mad from being shot in the fucking face.

Yeah, absolutely, man. So he's going to be transferred to Ruby Memorial Hospital Trauma Center. So he's in the hospital being ready to be flown when he goes into cardiac arrest. Wow. Goes into cardiac arrest. He's taken to Stonewall Jackson Hospital. That's hilarious that they have a Civil War Confederate general hospital name. In Lewis County, where he is pronounced dead.

Oh, Jesus. He dies. Wow. Four and a half hours after being shot, Michael's dead. He's going to be super late. Listen, Janet, she's still waiting. I picture her sitting outside with a fishing pole, sitting on the front step with like a camping backpack and a fishing pole.

Like, when's he coming? Like a little kid waiting for his dad, like an arrested development. Yeah. The brown vest with the lures attached to it. Yeah, exactly. He's waiting for Jeffrey Tambor to come in and arrest him and go, sorry, pal. With like some hot chick in the car behind him. Look, I have a lot of work to do.

The medical examiner says it's a result of an air embolism caused by the gunshot wounds. That is the official cause of death. Two bullets entered and exited through the side of his face. Another bullet entered the side of his head, fracturing the lateral wall of the maxillary sinus. Okay. And the zygomatic arch. Okay. Which I know you have a constant problem with your zygomatic arch.

You're always complaining. I'm like, Jimmy, I'm tired of hearing about it. Bullet fragments were lodged inside the area of his sinus cavity, but none of the bullets penetrated the cranium and went to the brain. Two of the bullets were fired from a distance of greater than 18 inches, while the shot that got into his sinus cavity was at near contact range. So that seems like that's the one on the bed.

Comes up, shoots him. He gets up. She shoots him twice more and then he gets and takes the gun. What the fuck are you doing? You're shooting me. Can you imagine being that person and got the gun taken away though? How are you walking? I just shot you three times. I shot you right in the face right in the face

that'll that'll lead to calling the fucking police talking about i just get here this shit is out of control this has gone bad now ab this is before he was dead she says her story is that uh her husband she said that michael tried to shoot her. She said they were lying in bed together, that there was a struggle and the gun accidentally went off and struck him in the face. Jesus. That's a bad story because he just got shot three times. But if that is in fact the story, that's crazy. Definitely.

That it would go off three times like that, right in the face. That's wild. That's why she didn't give the police any answers on 9-1-1. She's like, I don't know. I don't know how to explain this. Just get here. Michael's been shot. We have more questions.

Listen, I just shot him three times in the fucking face and he's walking. I have zero answers for anything. You have questions? I have questions. I have way more questions than you. You ever shot a guy three times in the face and had him come at you upset about it? That's questions. We both have questions.

I got so many fucking questions. So many. Physics don't make sense right now. Yeah. Later on, she ends up changing her story, saying that he tried to shoot her while they were in bed, and she got the gun away from him and fired two shots at him in self-defense as he approached her in a threatening manner, which sounds highly unlikely. fence as he approached her in a threatening manner, which sounds highly unlikely.

She says the third gunshot was when he took the gun back from her and shot himself. So she shot him twice. He got mad, took the gun, and then shot himself is what he's saying, which is very odd here. Now, a neighbor heard the shootings here, didn't hear any talking, screaming, sounds of a struggle, nothing like that. So it wasn't like a big, she shot him while he was in bed, sleeping. Another neighbor testified they heard a gunshot, a groan, a gunshot, a groan, and then after a little hesitation, another gunshot. These are neighbors.

You can hear groans from your neighbor's house. I just saw that Austin Powers moment where he goes, you shot me. You've goddamn shot me. Then they shoot him again. He goes, you've shot me again. Yeah, you shot me you've goddamn shot me then they shoot him again he goes you've shot me again yeah he shot me again so it's like yeah it's seriously like that monty python the one-legged fucking swordsman it's like it's just a flesh wound he keeps getting up yeah losing arms and appendages it's just a flesh wound now this this whole thing this got just a flesh wound. Now, this whole thing has got just a flesh wound to the face. Right.

A fucking groan, a shot, a groan, a shot. Those were her stories before he died. Jesus. After he died, she has a different story. Really? Now he dies. Now it's serious. Yeah.

She says that she tells the police officer, quote, I just want you to know I didn't do it because he was going to leave me. I did it because he was taking my kids. Okay. Which makes sense, but that's probably not the best. You still don't get to do that. No, and you probably shouldn't tell a cop about that. She said she knew about the affair.

She knew he planned to leave for a trip with his girlfriend. She knew that they were going to leave. He was leaving to move in with Janet. She knew all they were going to leave. He was leaving to move in with Janet. She knew all of this. She said that she was terrified that her husband would get unsupervised visitation with the kids. She said that the night before he threatened her and said for the first time ever that he and his girlfriend would take the kids away from her, the whole thing. So she's saying that she didn't want him to have custody or even any kind of unsupervised visitation because he's a drug addict and he's been unstable and the whole deal. On August 11,

2009, Julia makes a three and a half hour statement. Oh boy. After receiving Miranda warning and all that. On August 12th, she goes to the police herself and tries to explain her motivation. She admits that she shot him. She said, you know, I just said that to the 911 operator just to, you know, get off the phone or whatever. She says, I'd like to give a recorded statement. This is after she's given two previous bullshit statements that we talked about here. She said that she needed an attorney on three separate occasions during the statement. But then she'd say, I need an attorney.

And then they would go, OK. And then they'd ask her something. And then she'd keep talking. Jesus. Which is a gray area. But technically, you have to force the issue of the attorney. You know what I mean at that point? But also, some judges will go, hey, you know, she asked for it.

She asked, right. It's tough. But for the most part, people go, shouldn't I have an attorney? And they go, what do you need an attorney for? Right. You think, let's just clear this up right now. Well, let me ask you this. Before we get into all that attorney stuff, what about this and this?

And then you're down the road and the thing. And that's how they do it. Now, they tell her that his Michael's death had been had been ruled a homicide by the medical examiner. So that's that's an issue here. She said they said, you know, let's we want to try to give you a chance to help yourself by being honest and forthright, which is if you've ever seen any police show. That's what I do. Help me help you help yourself here. I can't I can't go to bat for you if you're not doing this.

She has made a second request for counsel saying, quote, I need to talk to a lawyer. And then deputy the deputy tried to end the interview. OK, she said he said, all right, well, then we'll stop right now. She said, no, wait, wait a minute. lawyer, and then the deputy tried to end the interview. He said, all right, well, then we'll stop right now. She said, no, wait a minute. This is all in the recording. She said, no, no, you hold on a second. He said, I'm going to stop the tape recorder, and she said, please don't do that, and voluntarily kept talking.

Jesus. Then about two minutes later, she made another request for counsel. It's like, make your fucking mind up what you want. You got to stop. Do you want a lawyer or not here? Now, while she's doing this, she ends her statement because she stops it because while she's making a statement, a trooper, a state trooper comes in with a warrant for her arrest for murder.

So she said, oh, I'm done talking now. Now that I'm actually under arrest here. Because before that, she kept asking, am I going to be under arrest? And they were like, we don't know. It depends on what happened. What are you talking about? Tell you what. You tell us what happened, and we'll tell you if it's bad or not.

That's a bit of a gamble. So she's taken to be arraigned by a magistrate, which the judge is not available right away. So she had to wait in the company of two police officers. Neither officer questioned her at that time, but she continued to make statements. Yeah. She just kept uttering whatever. She's trying to get out of it, and she's trying to explain herself and the whole deal. They're not, they even find, the court even finds they're not eliciting any statements from her.

They're not asking her any questions. They're just sitting there, and she's like, let me tell you one more thing. She's talking, whatever. January of 2010, she. I didn't buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. She's talking whatever. January of 2010. She is charged. Julia is with first degree murder for her husband here. Pre pre-trial right away. She's trying to get the statements that he made saying the bitch shot me suppressed.

She wants that suppressed because he's not available because I want that shit. We want that in right in court we want that in the in the documents here uh because i know it they were in the documents so uh yeah so she said that uh he's yeah the argument is that he can't be cross-examined so how can his statements that they're testimonial in nature so they those testimonial statements have to be cross-examined dying fucking decree there's the dying declaration thing where if he knows he's dying and he makes a dying declaration then that's in but he didn't have any idea he was dying they told him he was fine everyone said he was fine right he thought he was going fishing yeah he thought he was going

fishing he was giving recorded statements but the fact that he gave a recorded he thought he was going i'm going i got my trout lures all set i got my trout. I'm set up. I got all my flies on my hat. You're looking amazing. But yeah, the circuit court finds that the statements are admissible in court. Sure. They're called excited utterances is how they do it. And they were made within a short time frame after he received his injuries. But he was still laboring under the stress of the events.

They were like, yeah, he was fucked up enough to think he was messed up to where these are considered excited utterances. But in all this, they end up letting in those statements. She tries to get everything she said after she was served the warrant. She tries to get that tossed out, too. But there's no evidence that they didn't ask her anything. They're just sitting there and she's talking. It's like, we told you you have the right to remain silent.

That doesn't mean you must remain silent. You can if you want, but if you want to incriminate yourself, knock yourself out. Your call. Go crazy. We get it. The circuit court finds that she knowingly and intelligently waived her right to counsel after she already asserted she wanted it. Then she said she didn't.

They found that she had above average intelligence. She understood what she was permitted, that she was permitted to have an attorney present if she so chose. She was read her Miranda rights prior to every statement she made also. So they were like, you you're an intelligent person who understands how the world works. You're aware of what we told you as well. Yeah, they they they even found that the it was funny, funny too because the court's like the officers tried to help. They tried to stop the interview and you said, no, please wait. I have more shit I want to incriminate myself about.

Unbelievable. So that's your fault. They tried to help you in detriment to their own job. That's how bad they are at their job. They're so bad at their job that they tried to stop you from admitting to murder and you made it so easy because you're so bad at your job of being a murderer that you helped them find you more. It's unbelievable. Yeah. The other evidence is that they introduce her good character as a big deal, that she has good character.

She's never been arrested before. She's never had any trouble with the law. She's considered an upstanding citizen, the whole deal. They introduced that because she's going to testify on her own behalf, so then she could say what a great person she is. And the state, you know, there's nothing they can object to for that. The state even said there was no disagreement, that

she has a good reputation, she's peaceful, nonviolent, a good mother, and in the past has been a supportive wife to her husband. Even the state says, great, that's fine. She also shot him in the face three goddamn times. That's real. Meth or not, you got to let the guy leave.

He's trying to leave. You let him leave. Yeah, I think we're all on the same page and in agreement that he sucks. He's a piece of shit. Yeah, yeah. He's terrible. Yeah, he's caused all this. He ruined her life. And that's terrible.

Right. And then she needed to go, you're packing your shit. Good. Right. Have a good one. Bye. See you later. I'm not in imminent danger or harm.

Don't even care if you have a good one. Yeah. Whatever. Do what you got to do here. So they also, the state introduces a financial motivation saying that he gets, she now gets his retirement benefits and insurance policy. Okay. So there's money involved here.

He can either leave and take the kids and be a nut or I can get money. So she argued self-defense and good character. The medical examiner talks about the air embolisms. The medical examiner referred to the air embolism as, quote, bullets of air going into the apparently, you know, in the heart. So that's what he's talking about here. They're going to challenge that also, saying that. So that's what he's talking about here. They're going to challenge that also, saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about, which is interesting, the medical examiner.

They put their own pathologist up to defense, saying that his death was a result of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. He says that the death couldn't have been an air embolism. Most people shoot themselves in the face three times. That's normal. That's the normal suicide thing. I know sometimes they get two shots up. Three shots to the face is a bit excessive. Even two is crazy.

And it's not like he was just dead and they went, what happened here? He's outside going, she shot me. Can you believe this shit? That fucking lady shot me in there. It's nuts, man. That bitch shot me. Bitch shot me. I can't believe this shit that fucking lady shot me in there it's nuts man bitch shot me bitch shot me i can't believe this here uh now the the last statement too that really screwed her was the the statement julia made that was about an uh an hour and a half long on august 12th there she uh julia's team seeks to have a hardened instruction given to the jury. This would allow in evidence of alleged abuse and threats on her life to be considered on the whole thing.

But the state says that this type of instruction is not relevant because there hasn't even been any evidence presented by her that he abused her. So it's like you can't just say it at the end. Oh, by the way, self-defense because she abused – when? When did he abuse her? She doesn't even say that. You didn't even call the cops the end. Oh, by the way, self-defense because she abused. When? When did he abuse her? She doesn't even say that. You didn't even call the cops. We don't know that. So, yeah, the court found that it wasn't warranted because the facts were different than the present case.

So, you know, that's how it is here. Now, she testifies. Julia gets up there and testifies. You bet your ass she does. She gets up there. She acknowledged she made many different statements. does. She gets up there. She acknowledged she made many different statements. She said she first told the authorities that her husband committed suicide because, quote, I could not tell my boys that I shot their daddy twice, even if it was in self-defense. Really? I think you could. Yeah.

She said that while they had a number of good years together, the relationship began to deteriorate in 2008 when he began abusing alcohol and having an affair and doing meth. Also, you can add into that, but she doesn't say that. She says that the problems escalated when he began an adulterous relationship, that whole thing with a meth-addicted fellow teacher, as she put it. Now, Janet gets on the stand and says that the whole relationship started out with Michael supporting her as she tried to break her addiction to drugs. But then it soon turned into romance. And like we said, what does meth do?

It's a big dirt pile of arms and legs. And if you're standing near it, you're getting sucked right in like a fucking tornado. And that's what he was. He was like, what's that coming down the street? Oh, shit. Clouds and things coming. I'm in the tub. I'm in it now.

Asshole over elbows. Oh, shit. Exactly, man. things coming i'm in the town over elbows oh shit exactly man she admits uh julie admits on the stand that she was aware of the relationship and uh so does janet she says yeah she was she thought julia was aware of the whole thing uh she talks about the argument the night before uh this was after they spent the whole day cleaning out her classroom his classroom at the high school she says they're home alone and she says uh uh she walked away and went into the bed and left her in the living room when they were arguing that night. She said early the next morning, she woke

up, made coffee and went into the bedroom that her husband was in because I guess she needed something from the dresser. She said that Michael was awake and sitting on the edge of the bed and crying. She said that she and Michael crawled into bed together and you know, she put her head on his chest type of thing. They were holding each other in bed like that. She says that they were like that for about 30 seconds when out of nowhere

Michael just leaned up, you know, jetted up, leaned over and got a gun. She said that he pointed the gun at her and put it to her face and said, quote, bitch, you're not going to destroy me. You're not going to destroy Janet. She said that he pointed the gun at her and put it to her face and said, quote, bitch, you're not going to destroy me. You're not going to destroy Janet. She said that she froze and that he cocked the gun. And as he cocked the gun, she said, bitch, you're not going to you're going to stop setting me up, is what she said.

She said it was what he said. Exactly. Now, she says at the time that all she could think was that she was going to die and no one would be there to take care of their children and just some meth addict would be there. She said she swung her hand toward the gun, causing him to become off balance. And then he fell toward the top of the bed and the gun fell from his hand. Okay. Very unlikely scenario. Yeah.

She's unbelievable. She's diehard is what she is. This is incredible. She's much better than Jackie Chan. Oh, so good. Kar unlikely scenario. Yeah. She's unbelievable. Amazing. She's diehard is what she is. This is incredible. She's much better than Jackie Chan. Oh, so good. Karate chopped the gun out of his hand, Jimmy. This is incredible. Incredible.

She hit the gun so hard that he lost balance and fell forward. Fell forward and lost the gun. Right. He just threw it. But yeah, she said she then grabbed the gun and slipped backward off the bed and ended up in the corner of the bedroom. Okay. She said that he started coming toward her in a rage at this point now. And she's blown away that her Krav Maga worked.

Oh, she's like, shit. Wow, that guy was right. That was worth $100 a week. So she said she then fired a gun. She said she fired a shot toward him, not at him, but just like a warning shot. And that ended up in a closet somewhere. But didn't matter to him. He kept coming.

Michael was on her. So she said she fired a second shot, which hit him in the cheek. She said then Michael grabbed her and got the gun out of her hand while stating, quote, you're not going to get me for this, bitch. And then she said as they were struggling, the gun went off again. And she didn't see where the bullet landed. But she did say Michael

was bleeding from the face and requested that she go get a doctor. She then says that he left the room, went into the bathroom, keeping the gun with him. And they said the gun, they later found the gun in the bedroom. Now they cross examine her

because this is insane. And she's, they were asking questions and we're not taking anything away from abused people right but this type of shit takes away from abused people it does that actually that this is a real problem they get hit all the time and don't they they don't know how to get out of it because they're just they're just stuck it's so they feel they're stuck and some people who actually are in fear of their lives right like we get that but she's not she wasn't she's not she wasn't in her life was fucked up yeah but you

know what a lot of people's lives are fucked up and you don't get to shoot people over it just because the person messed your life right you know so because he's an asshole and does fucking drugs yeah he's a piece of shit he is he's a terrible human being you leave him and you move on you get out of victims in this story are two little boys. That's who the victims are. Yeah, now their dad's gone and we'll find out what happens to their mom here. Hopefully Janet's there. Let's hope not.

So she said that in the cross-examination that he was a loud and physically violent person, but never to her. Never physically violent to her. She said there was no domestic violence. Never physically violent to her. She said there was no domestic violence. I guess he had a first wife that accused him of a physical violence. Had detailed episodes. And she even denied that.

She even said, I didn't even think that was true because he wasn't like that. She stated that she was, quote, not trying to make Mike out as a physically violent person that harmed me. She just said that at that moment in time, that's what she felt about it. So this doesn't look great for her. The jury does not take long. On May 20, 2010, they return a verdict of guilty of first-degree murder. They recommend no mercy for her and made a specific finding that a firearm was used in the commission of the incident, which is how they can get an aggravator to get no parole.

She is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of the incident, which is how they can get an aggravator to get no parole. Right. She is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And on top of that, ordered to pay all costs and court-appointed attorney fees. What? Holy shit. So while you're in there making 12 cents a day for doing whatever, moving rocks to over there, it's going to be a while before you get this paid off. My God. She obviously appeals quickly uh appeals on the

grounds that they didn't give that hardened instruction about good character and that they did not suppress her statement to the police when she was asking for a lawyer and then talking for no reason the statements that that uh he was making uh the the court relied upon apparently an ex called an exception called a quote uh catch-all exception to the hearsay rule that says it's basically – it's so hard to explain all this shit. They just basically say that it's an excited utterance. There's no need to – they even say in the documents, quote, there's no need to delve further into the residual hearsay exception.

They're like, this is even boring for court. Fuck it. Moving on. They said it's not a reversible error on that one. Her third statement to law enforcement, they say that there's no error in the circuit court's decision

to not suppress it because she kept doing it herself. Nothing was elicited from her at that point. Next is the jury instructions, the failure to give a good character instruction. The circuit court found that the first court found that the facts elicited at trial didn't support giving that instruction. And that she now, Julia, asserts that the failure to give this instruction about her good character warrants a reversal of the of the whole decision.

At this point, she's saying that little bit, them saying, hey, by the way, she's a good person, that would have been the difference between this and that. Yeah. What they wanted said to the jury was, quote, Julia Serbaugh has introduced evidence of her good character. Good character is a circumstance to be considered by the jury with all other facts and circumstances in the case on the question of guilt or innocence of Julia Serbaugh and can alone give rise to reasonable doubt of her guilt on your part.

But if you believe Julia Serbaugh is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, her good character cannot be taken into consideration to mitigate, justify, or excuse the commission of a crime. So that's what they wanted it to be said. But that's really the whole time they said she had good character. In the beginning, they allowed her to put in good character, whatever. Now, what they say here is that the facts surrounding the refusal to instruct on good character are identical to another case that we won't get into. But I'm not going to get into precedent cases here. This isn't a law show.

This isn't a law show. So they said that the petitioner, which is her because it's an appeal, requested an instruction deficient in some respect on a point vital to her defense that was not covered in the general charge to the jury, which is supported by uncontroverted evidence. Under the limited circumstances of this case, it was error not to give a proper good character instruction there was no guidance to the jury via specific instruction or by general charge on how to interpret the evidence of good character therefore the instructional error is sufficient enough to warrant a reversal of the conviction and remand for a new trial upon retrial uh she is entitled to an instruction of good character if such evidence is introduced. She got a new fucking trial. Because they didn't say, by the way, she's a good person.

They didn't say, by the way, she's not a piece of shit. Take that for what you will. Wow. Even though earlier in the thing they'd said, she's not a piece of shit. Take that for what you will. But right then. So she is, she's still in jail, but she does not have, it's a vacated murder conviction now. It's still vacated right now. No, no. We're talking.

OK. OK. February 14th, 2014. February 2014. OK. New trial. OK. They're not going to let her go on this whole thing here.

They have a new trial, again, saying she committed intentional premeditated murder. Right. The defense, again, says that she fired two gunshots in self-defense and that the husband self-inflicted the third one. She asserts medical negligence was the cause for her husband's death this time. She's saying, you can't charge me because the gunshot wounds weren't the cause of death. I shot him, but their negligent care is what killed him. He would have lived if they took care of him.

That's unbelievable. The balls. The balls it takes to put that. He went to Stonewall Jackson. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine? I set it on fire, but no one put it out. That's the problem.

If you would have put the building out, it wouldn't have burned to the ground. Just because I set it on fire, that's not arson, technically. It could have been stopped. Wow. Holy shit. That's unbelievable. Yeah, so this is a 12-day trial somehow with this bullshit uh the jury finds her guilty of first degree murder here of course they're like you are full of shit

what a story what kind of how do you they find her the balls to just blame a doctor for not saving him it's it's wild we're not fixing up her injuries yeah Yeah. How do you not? What the fuck? So she files another appeal after that. Yeah. It's a motion for a post-trial motion for new trial or judgment of acquittal. The court denies it in July 2014. Based on the fact she's full of shit. Yeah. Based on the fact that she's completely full of shit.

Right. In 2016, she has another appeal. Jesus. This is mainly based on the medical examiner's opinion. She's saying she's trying to say his opinion isn't reliable. Sweet Pete, she's a dickhead.

She's a total asshole. Now, this guy did have, they went over his Dr. Mohamed, or Mahmoud, I'm sorry, Dr. Mahmoud. My Andrew Jackson moment. I assume it's Mahmoud. Dr. Mahmood, my Andrew Jackson moment. I assume it's Muhammad. Dr. Mahmood here, he apparently had, they went into like his, when he like tried, like the tests for the state, whatever. And they're like, well, he failed this test once and he failed trying to say he didn't

know what the fuck he was talking about. But the fact that he's the state medical examiner, when they do- That should negate all of it. Who gives a fuck? And when you put a witness in as an expert witness, you can challenge that. Sure. And if your attorney doesn't challenge that or if it's found that he's an expert or she's an expert, they're an expert. Whatever they says on that, that's how it is now.

So you can't then say they don't know what they're talking about. That's what they're trying to say here. Not only I have someone who has a different opinion, which is better, they're saying he just doesn't know how to examine medical shit. It's West Virginia. That's true. I mean, you're going to have... He just assumes most of

them are being... They were crushed in a coal mine or overdosed on a prescription medication. Anything else, they're a little... Statistically, there has to be a worse doctor in the world. And if that's true, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many doctors. There's got to be one that's the worst. And tomorrow, somebody has an appointment with that guy. Yeah, that's the truth.

This guy might be the worst medical examiner. He's still a fucking medical examiner. That's Jerry Seinfeld. Is it Seinfeld? You've got to see my guy. He's the worst. Right. Everybody's, he's the best. He's the best. You've got to see my guy. He's the worst. He's the best.

He's the best. You've got to see my guy. He's the worst. He's the worst. It's just awful. So then the final one is, like I said, the fact that the causation of death is in the appeal here. She says that the state failed to prove that the gunshots caused her husband's death. She contends his wounds were not fatal.

husband's death. She contends his wounds were not fatal. The death was instead the proximate result of an intervening cause, specifically the allegedly negligent medical care. They're fatal. They just take a while. They took a little while. Yeah. It's still fatal.

They caused one thing. So the court here says that she fails to prove that the criminal agency is now responsible for his murder. So, yeah. I shot him. But those fucking doctors. You can't even shoot your husband and rely on people to do their goddamn jobs and save his life. I only shot him three times. Small caliber.

It's not like I took a.357 and sprayed his brains all over the wall. I'm not asking for that. I'm not stupid. I know. I'm not asking for that. I'm not stupid. I know what I'm talking about. Wow. If he died as a result of the wound, it's a fatal fucking wound. Yeah, that's it. That's the way it is.

So the court says, in this case, even if there was medical negligence in the treating of Michael Serbaugh's gunshot wound, the evidence does not support a finding that medical negligence was a, quote, new and independent force which broke the casual connection between the original act and the injury. That's the thing. If I stab you in the arm and you wander away and you're bleeding, obviously you could eventually bleed to death or something like that. But if then someone comes up and stabs you in the heart, they killed you. That's what this law is for.

It's to say it's literally a homicide. David Simon from The Wire, The Wire creator, that book. They talk about that where a guy actually got off because the jury doubted that they didn't know if a second guy shot him or not. So that was the thing. It's like, not this. This isn't what they're talking about. Doctors trying to do their jobs.

It has to be an intentional act of whatever. George Washington died of a fatal case of pneumonia. It just took for fucking ever. Yes, absolutely. So they found, please, obviously, shooting him was the main problem here. That's what did it. It was the main issue. Also, they say that bed sheets were destroyed by the state, destruction of evidence.

They were stored in an evidence locker. And once the trial was concluded in 2010, they were destroyed, the evidence here, the sheets, which didn't matter anyway. Her attorneys didn't even examine the sheets. And now she's trying to add that as they destroyed evidence that could have exonerated me. And they're like, how would the sheets have exonerated you? A. And B. You didn't even look at it when you had the chance. Now all of a sudden it's the biggest piece of evidence in the world. Right.

Bullshit. Bullshit. So they said, you, ma'am, may fuck off once again. And she is sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the second time. She is shit out of luck here. She's over there fucking off now. It's over. She's fucking off the appeals courts.

They keep her convictions on this one. They say you are ridiculous. You got lucky on that jury instruction. But I don't think that you can say that the doctors killed him because they couldn't save him. Now, like we said, anybody,'re any domestic abuse that sort of thing we're not saying it's okay no and we're not doing anything like that we're not saying we're not we're not downplaying anybody's demand we don't feel like this lady was abused because she said she wasn't right she said he never touched me didn't have everybody said it except for that fucking nosy and yeah she. She even said, except for her.

Nosy Deb. It was Deb. She even said he was a nice guy until a year ago when he started doing bad. Like we said, he's a piece of shit and he should have, she should have absolutely divorced him. Right. Took the kids away from him. Walked away.

A court child. If they find that he's on meth, they don't let him have the kids. He's going to have to do drug tests and all that sort of thing. But I, it's, I feel so bad when people are scared. She wasn't scared. No. She wasn't scared. She just, this was easier, I feel like.

And she probably got mad. She was pissed. And people get jealous and people get angry, too. And who knows what happens. Can you imagine how shitty you would feel if you've got your life together? Fuck yeah, man. Oh, I see where she's coming from. Don't get me wrong.

This guy's on meth and he's got a girlfriend too? What the fuck? Running around and he's going away that night with her and she's like, you're going away with your meth girlfriend and you're telling me you're going to take my kids away from me? And I'm a loser? Jesus. I can see that.

Believe me. But you know what? When he's out of town, take your fucking kids, go to your mom's house, whatever you got to do. And find a dude with money that's hot as shit. Or go make your own money. Go now pursue what you want to do with your life. Do whatever you got to do.

Be successful and happy and get a dude that's hot as shit that makes that guy lose his fucking mind. That's Webster Springs slash Addison slash Elk Lick slash Fork Twat slash whatever West Virginia. That is the case of the Surbos and their disastrous unfolding marriage. That's a real small town murder of this nice couple whose marriage unravels. That is a gooey one. It just happens, man. I thought it was a crazy story. And West Virginia is a crazy state, so we do a crazy story.

So that's that. We're getting low on states, and we're going to do more international ones. People have asked us to. We're not going to do them constantly, but we're going to try to at least make one out of ten international. We'll do all over Europe. We'll do UK. We'll do whatever we find cool shit.

I mean, it's not like we're trying to. We got one more episode for a year anniversary. That's fucking amazing. That's it, man. This is our 52nd show. So this is one year worth of shows. They were released a week from now that this was released. And thank you guys so much for a year of support and taking it from, we just recorded this

show going, I don't know if anyone will listen to that. We'll see. We'll see. To what the fuck. People like it. We're selling out live shows and you guys are the most incredibly supportive people on earth. It's incredible.

And we're going to talk about the best of these people, our producers here in one second. Once again, quick reminder, crimeandsports.threadless.com for all of your crime and sports and small town murder merchandise needs. You betcha. Wear them to a live show. Bring it. Wear them to Detroit, February 16th for the stand-up show with Dan Cummins or the hybrid podcast later on that night. At the Magic Bag Theater. It looks amazing.

At the Magic Bag in Ferndale. Yeah. Or maybe you want to be in Boston at Laugh Boston on February the 18th where you can see us three times. Yes. Maybe you want to be in Boston at Laugh Boston on February the 18th where you can see us three times. One o'clock, small town murder, which still has tickets left. A 4 p.m. crime and sports, which also still has tickets left. And a damn sold out, packed, done and done. No more tickets left.

7 p.m. show. Can't wait. And finally, March 25th in Phoenix, Arizona at Stand Up Live. Get those seats quickly. And today, please, everybody, iTunes reviews. Like we said, five stars would be wonderful. Doesn't matter what you say. Don't give a fuck. It's so helpful on the business end.

And it takes 30 seconds and it helps us out immensely. So please do that. And if you want to do more, if you want to be like these people we're going to talk about in a second, a goddamn hero, you can do that at patreon.com slash crime in sports where you can make a donation or you can go to paypal using our email address crime in sports at gmail.com yes if you want to get a hold of the show that's easy too twitter at murder small facebook.com slash small town pod or crime and sports at gmail.com right tell us jim. Who are the people? Who are the superstars? We got past all the shit that we don't.

Now let's get to the important part. The people have been amazing to us this week. The supporters. The people that actually listen and give a shit. Thank you so, so much, you guys. You guys have been fucking incredible. Thank you guys so, so much. Executive producers continue to be Jess Landgren and Christiane Costaldi.

Because they're amazing. You two are fantastic. And then this week, Mary Hemphill came through with an enormous. Oh, God, thank you. Thank you. Mary, thank you. Really. So, so, so much. You guys are amazing.

It means the world to us. And we can't do this without you, so thank you. Thank you. Esther Wright. Eric Pennywell got creative and donated. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that. With a message.

The message was, shut up and give me murder. And he donated via, it was basically the letters of the alphabet was how it turned out. The message was be sure to drink your Ovaltine. Right. That's what I think it was. Thank you, Eric, for being creative and having fun with it. Yeah, that was cool. Thank you.

Stacy Huffaker constantly – Yeah, that's really nice of her. Thank you, Stacy. Thank you so much, Stacy. I'm still trying to figure out if there's a – If there's a message buried in that shit too. If there's a message. I tried to figure out is that like a currency – I tried to figure out, is that a currency?

Is it a percentage for how much of my day you guys ruined? I don't know what it is, but I love it anyway. I'm having fun thinking about it. Thank you, Stacy. Travis Hess, Will Taffet, Julia Schuster, Madison Grout, Dirty Girls Cleaning LLC. I'm not sure what that is. Google Dirty Girls Cleaning.. I'm not sure what that is. Google Dirty Girls Cleaning and see if- Or maybe not at work, though.

Maybe wait until you get home. Just in case. Do it on your phone. Yeah. It could just be Naked Girls Cleaning on video. I hope it is. I really do. It's awesome.

Jimmy would go crazy. Shit, yeah. Kristen Sassano, Kelly Schulte, Nicole DeHart Robb, Mary Hemphill again. That was where I wrote it, but then I wrote it up at the top as well. Thank you. Thank you, Mary. James Cook. Just about every damn week that guy comes through.

Thank you so much, James. It's amazing. William Sherwood, Brinley Richeson, Naima Shea, Nick Goodall. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. That was a nice one also. Jerry Hutton, Elizabeth White, Heather Shelley, Ann Nitsch, Andrew DuPois, or DuPois? DuPois?

There's no O. It's not DuPois. I tried so hard to pronounce. It's DuPuis or DuPuis. DuPuis. It's interesting is what it is. DuPois. Candice McFarlane, Kapow Designs. That's Kat Powers.

Oh, that's Kat. Hey, Kat. Go find Kapow Designs and buy some shit from her. Kat's cool, man. She's fantastic. Help her out. She's got a new boyfriend. She sends me messages about this fucking guy. So good for you, Kat. Go find Kapow Designs and buy some shit from her. Kat's cool, man. She's fantastic. Help her out. She's got a new boyfriend. She sends me messages about this fucking guy.

So good for you, Kat. Yeah, be nice to Kat. Yeah, he's a nice guy. Guy with Kat. You like her. Oh, Jesus. Every time I go to breathe, I breathe in fucking ouch. Katie Heisel, she's the one that makes the mask.

Oh, the mask. Yeah, she's awesome. The girls in, Joe and her girlfriend, I forget her, God damn it. In Portland. Jeffrey is her last name.

Why am I forgetting her fucking first name? No. Karen? I'm not sure. Why am I blanking on it now? I don't know why I'm blanking it too. Sorry, it's on the spot.

Joe and Carrie. Carrie. I hear something with a K. Yeah. So Joe and Carrie are hosting, it's happening this weekend, a listening party for last week's episode in Oregon. That's great.

And they're inviting all their friends. That's so cool. So Katie, no, not Katie. Yeah, Katie's going. And they're coming to Phoenix for the live show on March 25th at the Santa Blanca. So Katie's going to that party. Whatever. It doesn't matter.

That's cool. I'm going to be snapping with them tomorrow. It'll be fun. Lucas Bergeron Pousey or Dowsey? No, it's a P. Pousey. Pousey. Lucas Bergeron, thank you. Thank you.

I'm not going to worry about that last one. It's a motherfucker. Ricky Fitzpatrick, wow, thank you. That was an amazing donation as well. I appreciate you. Barbara Johnson, Elizabeth Freeman. Michelle Jolly is somebody in Australia. Oh, yeah, she's cool.

She tends to come around pretty frequently too. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Mark Barn yeah, she's cool. She tends to come around pretty frequently, too. She throws us, yeah, thank you so much. Mark Barnett, Madeline Robinson, Liberty Sisin, S-Y-S-I-N. That's a fucking nightmare of a last name to pronounce. Wow, yeah. Sci-Sign? That can't be a real last name. It looks like a company.

Yeah. I don't know. It sounds like a stock. Oh, I'm going to get to one that's- It sounds like a stock. Right. Right, exactly. It looks like a name on the side of a truck trailer.

Let me check the NASDAQ and see if it's going up. We're going to get to one in a minute that is completely an obvious joke, I think. We'll see. Madeline Robinson, I already said that. Shane Raley, Luis Reyes, Rick Paul, Gresham Fenton, Dave LeCount. I almost said LeCount. I almost did it. It's not LeCount. I almost said LeCunt. I almost did it. It's not LeCunt.

I'm so sorry, Tate. You wanted it bad. FedEx podcast guy. He sent a donation saying that this is part of his overtime for Christmas. Wow. So thanks, man. Thank you. He didn't give a name.

We appreciate that so much. Just FedEx podcast guy. I'll take it. That's so cool. Rhiannon Garrett, Joshua Fields. He's the one that sent the posters for the Method. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Josh.

Awesome, thank you. Rachel Sutton, Ben Hubert, Wout Van Holy Motherfuck, Wout Van Nettercastle. Nettercastle. Nettercastle. It's got a whole word in there. Yeah, it does. It's easy, so that's an easy one. I don't know.

That was a tough one for me. Joe Roth, Amber Lacey, Trent Pearson, Nicole Chastain, Sean Brandt, Tana Flowered. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Tana. Or Tana. Yeah, thank you. It might be Tana. I'm a fucking asshole.

Yeah, that's tough. Alanna Maller, Desiree Kissling, Nick Lawson, Susie Manon, Edward Cruz, Travis Tim, Tyler Burgert. Burgert. Bur-bur- Burgoo? Fuck. No, it's not Burgoo. Good. That's better. That's probably good. That would be horrific. Travis Tim, Tyler Burgert, Sharon Cullen, Nate Huesling, Molly Kuhls, the Real Booze podcast. Go take a listen to that thing. It's about they drink beer or drink whatever alcohol is in the fucking movie they're watching.

So go listen to that. That's cool. Judy Martin in Ontario is an almost 80-year-old lady that listens to this shit. How fucking bananas is that? Is she the ex-wrestler? I don't know. You know what? If you are the ex-wrestler Judy Martin from the WWF in the 80s, that would be awesome.

Natalie Meyer, Laura Murr. She's fantastic as well. Thank you, Laura. Sean Baker, Emily Cupid, Karen Silva, Heather Fowler, Rachel. No, it's Raphael. Sorry, Raphael. That's an asshole thing to do to somebody. Yeah, big time.

Raphael Gaetan, Sarah Kaizen, Amanda Wiley, Sean Hoxie or Hoxie or Hokie. Is that an X? Fuck. Is that an X? What is that? I don't know. Joblin Agterish. Joblin Agterish. Joblin Agterish.

That's a tough one as well. Wow, I would say. Mad Feline. I'm sure that's a joke. Stephanie Cadwell. Billy Garmer. Sarah Schlesinger. Chris Thresher.

Dan Zielkowski. Stephanie Zlosler. Zlosler. Zlosler. Fuck, I'm so sorry, Steph. That's a tough one. Austin Hardy. Lauren Levan. Genesisazler? Swazler. Fuck, I'm so sorry, Steph. That's a tough one. Austin Hardy. Lauren Levan.

Genesis Vasquez. Here it is. Sandy Handjob. Thank you so much, Sandy. Sandy Handjob sent some money. Kelly Ruiz. Ann Nitsch. I already said her name.

Thanks again, Ann. She donated both through PayPal and then also. Oh, that's close. Thank you, Ann. Thank you. Morgan St. Clair, Jonathan Elton, Wesley McRae, and his wife of 10 years who they just

celebrated their 10-year anniversary. You guys this week was fucking incredible. I appreciate the interaction, but the support is unbelievable. And we truly, 100%, cannot do this without you. No, it makes this show work and happen and makes us.

And the thing is, too, you guys have no idea. We are the guiltiest people. Truly. When you guys donate to us, I sit there and I'm like, oh, God, I have to do so much better. It puts so much pressure on us to just go balls out with the show and really just make the show as good as we can possibly make it. That's true. Because otherwise it'd be like, fuck these people. It's easy to go, it's a fucking free show.

Fuck you. But it's not a free show. It's not. Because it is a free show. You don't have to pay anything. But a lot of people, they donate so much to us and they give us stuff and they help us and they send us things that we're on. You know what I mean? You've purchased it.

Yeah. So it's not free. It is what it is, man. You guys just have made it worthwhile. It's an even exchange. Thank you. It really is. And thank you from the bottom of our hearts because it means the world to us, honestly. Thank you, guys.

What if one of these people who we love so much wanted to get a hold of a fellow like you? How would they do that? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. I appreciate the interaction and seeing and hearing from you guys. So thank you very much. Appreciate it. Definitely. I'm at JimmyPIsFunny.

You can find me there or copy and paste my last name if you want to do Facebook or whatever. There's an I in there, so don't try to spell it on your own. It's a mess. Do that. Get a hold of us. We really do enjoy talking to you guys and hearing from you guys and hearing your opinions. Just keep your town pronunciations to yourself stored snugly up your own asses.

That said, thank you folks so much. Until next week, guys, it's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, guys, I just want to tell you real quick. Web support is brought to you by WebAndWriter.com. If you're looking to build a website, go over to WebAndWriter.com. They build websites that look great on all screens, graphics, logos, engaging content. Go over to webandwriter.com or go over to facebook.com slash webandwriter.

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to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This motherfucker lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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