Small Town Murder - #533 - Mountain Massacre - McCarthy, Alaska

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

This week, in McCarthy, Alaska, a tiny, remote mountain town is nearly wiped out of existence, when one of the residents seems to snap, and tries to kill the whole town. In one wild morning, this killer methodically attacks person, after person, all while another resident tries to warn the others, and get a survivor on the only plane, out of town. And this was only the start of a larger plan. A crazy tale of brutality, and survival! Along the way, we find out that every remote mining village needs another nearby village for booze and brothels, that no one person can singlehandedly take down a major oil pipeline, and that sometimes scenes from movies, happen in real life!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. In the upcoming episode of Killer Psyche, we will be diving deep into the unfolding case of accused Gilgo Beach serial killer, Rex Heuerman. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Killer Psyche and more exhibit-seed true crime shows early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Kill List is a true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. Follow Kill List wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more Exhibit C true crime shows like Morbid early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

This week in McCarthy, Alaska, a tiny isolated town is nearly destroyed when a sudden massacre takes place and the crazed killer is possibly the last person anyone would have expected this from. Welcome to Small Town Murder. ["Small Town Murder Theme"] Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another wild crazy murder adventure here and small town murder

We have one of the smallest towns ever one of the craziest murders ever It's all mixed up in this weird one here. Alaska is nothing but weird like whenever we Whenever we do cases there, it is just weird, stacked on top of weird. Anybody who's not from there that's there is there because they're running from something. It's a very weird place. We'll talk.

It's a place that somehow exists and fucking shouldn't. It's like people live there and like, it's strange. This is, this town is remote. It's crazy. We'll get to it. First of all, shutupandgivemurder.com. Head over there, get your tickets for live shows. Kansas City, you're up next.

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Disclaimer, it's a comedy show. It is. We are comedians so we're gonna make jokes. We can't help that. That's definitely gonna happen. So expect that and expect murder as well Sure, you know, how does that work? Well very easily here. We don't cross the streams like Ghostbusters That's what you got to do here. No crossing the streams

We don't make fun of the victims or the victims family why because we're assholes. Yeah, but we're not scumbags That's pretty that's pretty relevant. I think it's good stuff here So if you think that that sounds good, you're gonna hear a wild story if you think true crime and comedy should never never ever Mix then I don't know why you're here to begin with first of all you read the description of the show But maybe maybe we're not what you think so give it a chance and if you don't like it no complaining later That's sad. Maybe maybe you don't know either. Maybe you don't know what you like. Who knows? Maybe we'll show you something new.

You never know. Maybe. That said, I think it's time, everybody. Yeah. Let's all sit back. Let's clear the lungs, everyone. And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody. Let's go on a trip. We's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip. We're going real far. We're going all the way to Alaska. And this is McCarthy, Alaska. Where's that? You've never heard of this because people don't even know it exists.

It's so remote. There's no way to get here except for a couple of very specific ways. Aery and Plains? Plains. There's a land, there's a bridge thing that you can walk. There's a road. You can walk it. There's a road too, but sometimes it's shitty, sometimes it's not. It's really sketchy here.

McCarthy, Alaska, it's in Southeastern Alaska over there. It's six and a half hours to drive to Anchorage from here. My God. And it's only like 200 something miles, so it's just, you have to drive to Anchorage from here. My God. And it's only like 200 something miles. So it's just, you have to drive through bad terrain, around mountains, all that kind of shit. Here, the last Alaska episode we did was Palmer, Alaska, which was episode 428.

So it's been more than a year since we've done Alaska here. That was the one with those barracks things, the military things, right? Weak motives and wilderness gangsters, the military things. Weak motives and wilderness gangsters that one was. This is area code 907, the zip code here is 99588. And the motto is, this place isn't really a place. That might as well be what it is because they don't have a motto because wait till you hear how few people they have. It's remarkable. I can't wait. Little bit of history. This is a cool historical

town in terms of what it was. It's this rugged kind of old timey thing here. The natives hunted on this area for a long time. It was a big native deal here. And they would collect copper nuggets from the creek and make shit out of that. So their permanent camp was on the Copper River at the village of Taral near Chitina, which is a town that's close by, where they fished for salmon. Now, copper was discovered between the Kennecott Glacier and McCarthy Creek. Kennecott's like the next, they're kind of twin towns there in McCarthy right next to each other. So this was in 1900 they discovered copper. So after which the Kennecott mind and Kennecott mining company and the company town of Kennecott were created. There was no towns here before this. They found copper and made a town just to get the

copper out. That was it. Now Kennecott and McCarthy were kind of sister towns for a reason because Alcoholic beverages and prostitution were forbidden in Kennecott. That was the company town So someone said well, let's just build a street in the town right next door here in McCarthy and make that fucking Deadwood You know what? I mean, Kimora that whatever we want amazing So yeah McCarthy grew as just basically an area to provide booze and women's for copper miners. That's all it was. It grew quickly into a major town actually. Had a gymnasium, a hospital, a school, a bar, and a brothel. Isn't it crazy what beer and pussy will get for you? Isn't that wild? I love that they were like, well, we'll

open up the school. The school and the brothel we'll put right next to each other. That'll be good. These kids need to learn some lessons when I tell you that much. So the Copper River and Northwestern Railway reached McCarthy in 1911. In 1938, copper deposits were gone by then, over. Wow. They sucked all the copper out and it's done. That was fast. So the town is basically abandoned after that.

The railroad discontinued service to the town. What's the point? There's nobody there. There's no copper there. Nope. So over there, they basically extracted about $200 million in ore from the mine over the course of there,

making it the richest concentration of copper ore in the world in this area. And they fucked it out in no time flat. Every drop of it out of the ground and said, done, left it behind. Oh my god, we're in so much trouble. Like a Kentucky holler, just like a holler where the mine's at a coal. Just, those people are fucked now. Oh my god.

So the population of McCarthy and Kennecott fell to basically nothing until about the 1970s. There was nobody here. There was like two mountain people up here, like trapping for fur and shit. And then it started to draw young people who were hippies basically. This is the end of the hippie era, who these people were looking for a naturalist lifestyle here. And then there was also people coming for the money involved in the Trans- or trans Alaska pipeline project because it's good money to build up there.

So in the 80s, this area was designated the Wrangle St. Elias National Park. And then it began to draw some adventurous people coming out to climb shit and walk through an untouched wilderness basically. Let's go see some shit. We're going to see a bear. Let's go see some shit. We're gonna see a bear. So they said there's always been at least one family living in the McCarthy area since 1953. There's always at least one family in the area, a whole area. It's crazy. So the old mine buildings, the artifacts and the history, that's why people come here for this shit. Only in the summer though. In the

winter we're talking negative 60 degrees in the way. Oh, I'm sure yeah, people just Extremely freezing fucking brutal cold you'll die out here The McCarthy and Kennecott area ranks as one of the United States most endangered landmarks by the National Trust for Historic places they did emergent emergency stabilization of some of the old buildings, but they need to do more Because it's just gonna fall because there's earthquakes here, too emergency stabilization of some of the old buildings, but they need to do more. It's all falling apart. Shit's just gonna fall, because there's earthquakes here too. So shit just falls apart.

That's right. It's part of the fucking ring of fire too. Yeah, it's crazy. So reviews of this town, there's no reviews of anywhere near this town, except there is reviews of the McCarthy Lodge and the Ma Johnson's Hotel, which are one place. The what?

Howard Johnson's Mom has a hotel? She's got Ma Johnson. Hey, Ma, you want to open some stuff up? I got it, sonny. Don't worry about it. I'll open it up. The Ma Joe, where Howard Johnson learned? That's it.

Since the McCarthy Lodge and the Ma Johnson's Hotel, they say the McCarthy Lodge Bistro is an authentic Alaskan fine dining establishment using local ingredients in extraordinary ways Enjoy wild caught Copper River red salmon local grown yak I'm not eating yak. I'm sorry. I draw the line. I guess I'm not eating any fucking yak man. That ain't happen. Yeah. Are you kidding me? We have that America That's like a joke where if like if there was like a Mongolian fucking fur trap would

be like eat your yak son and you'd be like oh god no one wants to do that and it's snow all around them. In like year one that movie with Jack Flag that joke would be in there. Yeah it's fucking awful. Who the hell is eating yak? And they also have they boast an extraordinary wine list as well, which you wouldn't expect. Yeah, but you gotta you gotta get that shit down. Here is a couple reviews of that. Here's five stars from Luke. Amazing hotel that is an absolute time castle capsule taking you back to the early 1900s. Not only in the feel of the hotel itself with period furniture, it's probably fucking the same furniture they've itself with period furniture, it's probably fucking the same furniture they've always had. But also the staff and friendliness you receive.

Step back in time with your stay in this hotel that is centrally located within a stone's throw of everything you need in McCarthy, which is like there's like a pizza place and this place and a pizza place and this place. Yeah, but how was the yak? Okay, people in this town, yeah, people in this town. In peak season now, summertime and all that, it tops out at about around 100. Wow.

In the winter, it's anywhere, and I've seen different sites have different things, anywhere from two from two people. Just a fuck session. To 22. That's... Okay. Anywhere from two to upwards of less than two dozen.

Yeah. It's fucking crazy. They had 28 people in 2010 and they've lost some people here. At this point in time, what I've seen from a census website is the best stats I can get on this place here is that, uh, there is 16 males, 16 males and 12 females right now. Four dudes that are sitting around. Like fuck man. Well, or there, maybe they've taken it upon themselves to say, or they're fucking each

other. What the hell? Listen, there's very few options. You know how prison is? This is worse. Okay? At least there's female guards in prison. We are in the middle of the forest, guys.

Let's all just take our dicks out and see what happens. What do you say? I know none of us are really into it. Someone's getting cornhole today is what I'm telling you. The median resident is about 48 years old, which is older than normal. Here I see religions. It's about 35% of the people here are religious. I think that, you know, it's not really... It's hard to find great stats on this. It looks like evangelical Protestant is the leader there in religions.

Interesting. Now, here is a thing called, they call it McCarthy compared to Alaska state average. OK, median household income significantly below state average, median house value significantly below state average, unemployment percentage significantly above state average. There's no jobs here.

Yeah, I guess everybody's, everybody's unemployed, huh? Let's see, median age significantly above the state average, foreign born population below the state average, renting percentage below the state average, length of stay since moving is significantly above state average, number of rooms per house. They're staying. They're staying. No, people come here to get the fuck away from everything and hole up. This isn't like, oh, it's pretty up there.

This is, I hate everyone and I need away now. I gotta be away from everyone. Before I fucking kill them all, I need to get out of here. The number of rooms per house is significantly below state average. House age is above state average. These are all old. People live in mining cabins from 1900. They just redo them and also a

number of college students significantly below state average where the fuck are they gonna go to school in a tree no Winnie the Pooh gonna teach a course in the fucking forest they cost of living here averages 100 here it's 104 okay because the hous's relatively cheap. This is, this website's all fucked up but I found it hilarious. Estimated median household income here. Negative $680,182.

I don't know how that's possible. They're in debt every year, half a million dollars, all right. But the median household income in 2000 was $17,188, which is not good at all. It's still not good. So that's less than half of what it was in the country then. And stuff to, like products there are very expensive

because it's hard to get things there, right? Fuck yeah, that's the thing. And there's not a lot of stores to buy them in either. So it's, you know, you kind of make your own way these people survive on their own and they have to have to stack food for the winter And then there's the only way to get any supplies in the winter Really is a plane that comes in once a week with the mail Housing units lacking complete plumbing facilities what 72.2 percent no no housing units lacking complete kitchen facilities same 72.2 percent no

that can't live like that bonkers but you know what though the estimated median home value here is negative seven hundred and six million two hundred eighty nine thousand three hundred seven dollars which I don't know how that's possible. They'll give you $7 million to take a house? But in 2000, it was $90,000. So it kind of seems like it goes about what it is. So if we've convinced you, you've had it with the world, you're done.

You are done. You're going to move to the middle of nowhere, never to be seen or heard from again. We have for you the McCarthy Alaska real estate report. Okay. There's one thing for sale within a hundred miles of this place, literally. And it's in Chitna or Chitina, Chitina or Chitina, whatever the fuck it is. C-H-I-T-I-N-A. And it's the closest place to here.

It's where the mail plane flies in from. This is a two-bedroom, zero bath, but there is a bathroom upstairs, I found out. 1,430 square foot. It's a fucking storefront. It's built in 1910. It's it's it's this I'll show you It's the spirit have a spirit mountain artwork store Yes with a little bit of livable up. That's what it is. And it's a it's a national historic site with upstairs living quarters

upgrades galore from 1978 through the present so a sweet avocado refrigerator in there. And a fucking dope golden rod countertops. Yeah, those are going to be nice. Upgrade, Upgrade's Glore. And there, the false front building with side stairs

to access living quarters. This is $225,000. Outside to go in the house. Yes. That's what it, well, you can see on the side, they have like a corrugated steel roof on the outside stairs. And that's how you get into your living quarters. You can't get to it through the store. So, okay. Things to do here. Well, uh, nature shit survival is really hard. Run from from bears I would say is probably an activity.

Figure out how to wake up tomorrow. Yeah, fucking look at the abandoned buildings though, that's the main thing. People go here just to look at abandoned shit. Really? Yep, they have an abandoned copper mining camp, that's kind of the whole camp, it's an abandoned copper mining camp. It's a national historic landmark district. And this is what they do. They come here. They say that the iconic view in Kennecott is the giant red mill building from the old Kennecott Copper Company, which stands 14 stories above the Kennecott Glacier. So that's a big building for there.

Just go to Jerome, Arizona. It's the same ship. It's much more accessible and it's the same thing. Little closer. They said, how do you get there? Getting to McCarthy is part of the experience, it says. Oh boy. The drive is approximately seven hours from Anchorage, eight from Fairbanks, and the final two hours are on the scenic, rugged McCarthy Road. This is a gravel road and many Alaska car rental companies don't allow their vehicles on non-paid roads.

Your insurance is out. No. Alaska 4x4 rentals and Alaska Overland are based in Anchorage, D.U. So you can get something specifically for this. At the end of the McCarthy Road is the footbridge into McCarthy. Cars aren't permitted in town, so you park your vehicle and walk across the footbridge. This is absurd. It's like going to Nogales, it's fucking ridiculous. Also there's the you can fly in the Copper Valley Air Service provides scheduled flights between Anchorage and McCarthy and Glenallen and McCarthy and there's that and also if this is a funny thing, see the locals, it says. Stare at people who came here to get away from you. Stare at them.

That sounds fun, right? Come here and look at a guy that hates your guts on sight. He looked at us. Oh, he really wants us to die in the forest. You could tell. I could see it. He wanted us to fall off the footbridge. He hopes that footbridge comes out from under us.

Fuck. It says, check out the Wrangle Mountain Center to observe local models of sustainable living practices. These are mountain people who shit in a bucket. They're acting like they got fucking giant organic greenhouses and shit. No. It's not impressive.

No, they eat yak and shit in buckets, these people. Your shit doesn't go bye bye. This is weird. You have to fucking throw it out. Practices and learn from those living on site. You can see the organic produce gardens and talk with the resident staff about Alaska's permaculture, almost called it Atlanta's permaculture. Local artists from around the state gather here to unplug in the rural environment while

building their individual craft. Families are invited to the music camp in mid June to hone their musical talents and learn from local musicians. It won't take long for you to discover that residents delight in sharing their unique skills and passions to those passing through. Yeah, that's why they moved here so they could deal with a bunch of tourists from fucking Seattle. So that said crime rate in this town. Oh my fucking property crime. Who got zero, not one big, big goose egg. There's 20 people here. We handle it in house. Bill cut that shit out. That's that's crime in this town. What the hell are you doing? We'll kill you and bury you in the forest. No one will find you for

years. I'll feed you to a fucking yeah. But you never know, violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, fucking zero. Zero? Zero, which just means last year they had no crime at all. Right. So, zero. But one year they did. One year, one year, and we're going to talk about that year right now.

Let's talk about a whole bunch of murder. Let's do this. Okay. Okay, now, got to set the, we've kind of set the tone of where we are, but to set it a little bit more. It's wild, man. A little bit more about the Wrangell Mountains that is kind of more specific here. This, like we said, this is a, it was established in December of 1980 as a national park and preserve. This area is roughly the size, the Wrangell St. Eli. This area is roughly the size,

the Wrangell St. Elias National Park is roughly the size of West Virginia. Oh, it's big. It's fucking huge. They have parks the size of states in Alaska. It's huge up there. It's six times the size of Yellowstone. Oh my.

That's a big fucking area. That's the biggest one in America, right don't know America, right? No idea It doesn't say mainland. I mean maybe it has to I would think Uh, they have four major mountain ranges that converge in the park and nine of the 16 tallest peaks in the u.s rising from within the park's boundaries Oh, this is like the most Like if you want to see nature in this type of shit, this is the, you're never going to get another place like this. This is the place to go.

Is this where Denali is? I don't have any fucking idea whatsoever. Unlike it's somewhere up there, I know, but I don't know exactly where it is. I know it's in Alaska, I just don't know where. Unlike the most national parks, the land along the McCarthy Road and along the road from McCarthy to Kennecott is a checkerboard of private and public lands. That's the other thing. It's all mixed together.

More than a million acres within the park's boundaries are still privately owned. It's a national park, but they, recognizing land rights of the people that lived there before that. The settlement's year-round residents are cut off from roads by a river bluff, and in summer, the only way to cross the river is to pull oneself across

in a cable car hand over hand. You look with the rope. That's how you get across otherwise you walk across it because it's frozen it's fucking crazy they said there's been a recent wave of outsiders first hippies who squatted in the dilapidated homes in town. Then the National Park Service made it a park so then not to tourists come. They said a lot of people would, you know, come here and that like they're from a anchorage, but they'll like dream of living this lifestyle. You know, they'll come out here like, yeah, I came to Alaska, but it wasn't far enough for me.

This is where it's at. I went to camp every day. Oh man, this is good. I want to never hear from another human for the rest of my life. One guy here said, so many of them don't adapt. They keep their city values and we don't see them around very long. But it's a good life when you live it over time. You learn to see things differently.

You learn patience is what you learn. What exactly is a city value? City value. I want things so I can go get it now. You know, anything since- The luxury of running water? Anything since, you know, like 3,000 years ago is a city value. If you'd like to go to the store and purchase something, those are city values.

Okay? City boy? Jesus. What do you want to turn a light on? What do you want to flush a toilet, you pussy? Light the candle, pussy. Yeah, Jesus Christ. They said in a winter only a handful of people remain.

Nancy Gilbert, who we'll talk about, they're her families in this story, said around here there are so few of us that we know each other by our boot tracks. No. She said, no. I'm serious. You walk out for water and you say, hey, so and so has been by the path. I don't want to know your Tim been by the path. I don't wanna know your Timberland fuckin' tracks. I don't, I don't wanna know anybody's shit.

Was that a fuckin' nine right there? Ted was over here. Wow, and then it said Bonnie Morris, who we'll hear a lot from in this episode. This episode, by the way, is a story of massacre and fuckin' survival. This is like, it's wild how the two emotions here. So this person said I always said it could be 60 below here but at least

there are no weirdos. You are the weirdo! You're sitting around going it's fine that it's 60 below out. That's fucking weirder than anything you could imagine. Whatever Charles Manson was doing all that this is weirder to me. To go yeah that's no problem. Nobody's diddling my my kid no I could walk to my girlfriends if I wanted by the light of the moon you won't have to worry about getting mugged but you'll have to worry about getting eaten by a grizzly bear or freeze frozen in your tracks as you walk and by the light of the moon don't act like you don't have a flashlight no light of the moon. Get out of here.

So by the, uh, the McCarthy Road, uh, begins where the pavement ends, just outside of Chitana, uh, 61 miles to the west. In 83, the road was covered with gravel and often scarred by washouts and washboard ruts. This place is... Back in 83. Yeah. Railroad ties and spikes occasionally resurfaced and shredded the tires of people driving on it though Wow, is it the if some water came through and washed it out like

Shit, so I guess floodwaters had washed out the bridge at the east end of the road were crossed to the Kennecott River into McCarthy and the local inhabitants registered State Department of Transportation efforts to build a footbridge to span the Kennecon, the river there. As a result, the only land route into McCarthy in 83, when our story is, was by means of the hand-powered tram, the cable that you go. That's the only way you could fucking get here.

Or fly, or fly in a little plane little plane So all the neighbors know each other obviously Clearly know their footprints. They know they know them. Yeah, they know exactly and there's only 20 people I mean you're gonna know everybody So let's talk about a guy who moved here and there's the people who've lived here for generations And then there's the people who moved here to get the fuck away from everything and that is Lewis D Hastings we'll talk about here and this is all taking place our story is gonna be in 1983 But we'll talk a little about him. He was born in Kansas Hastings, Leewood, Kansas in 1944 January 1st

1944 New Year's baby here his father who was a real asshole from what? Everybody says mother sisters everybody and a real difficult guy returned home at the end of World War two and When he got home at the end of World War two He was a completely different guy than when he went to World War two sure you know saw some shit Yeah, so when he got, he had come home on break, impregnated his wife, the kid's born, he gets home, now he's got a son, he quote, disapproved of his infant son. That's not good. I don't like him. That's a bad one. Look at him. I don't like him.

That's what it is? Shit in his pants all the time. You're a disgrace. Not a fan. Not my son. My son doesn't shit in his pants. I'll tell you that right now. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gabba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty, representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all.

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Thank God. From what everybody said. Everybody said Lou, everybody calls him Lou by the way, Lewis Hastings, everybody said his mother, his sister, everybody said he was a very shy child, and as a youth was, we're talking in the 50s, went to a psychiatrist. Hell yeah. Which, yeah, hell yeah, but back then.

He was super fucked up. Back then that was like, I mean, the extreme of holy shit, they tried to throw themselves out of a window. I guess maybe you talked to a psychiatrist. And he was treated for chronic depression in the 50s as a child, which, yeah, most people didn't take their kids to shrinks back then. That was a, in the 60s, that became more popular.

But in the 50s, it was like, no way. He's just a young, he's a young, he's not even a young man. He's a young child still. Yeah. And that means that that rejection of his father had to sting. So I've never liked him at all. A father always called him a piece of shit. So that can't help.

And then left. Yeah. Even if your father's just kind of uninterested, it feels terrible. Never mind fucking actively abusive and then leaving. Vocally, vocally reminding you how much they don't approve. It feels terrible. Never mind fucking actively abusive and then leaving. Vocally reminding you how much they don't approve. So he received counseling for two years as a teenager because he was depressed and his sister said that he started having trouble keeping himself organized, especially to do

schoolwork because his brain was doing all sorts of shit. They said though, as he got older though, he was very gentle, very gentle, very caring, animal lover, that kind of guy, protector of animals and shit. His sister blames the father for any of his problems as a teenager. She said, it's an older sister, so she was like, I remember him, he was a fucking monster, treated him terribly, it's awful. Her sister's name is Madeline and she says his constant belittling criticisms and patronizing attitude left all three of us children with a poor self-image, shy and unable to relate to other people easily. Yeah and it hurts. You have no steady ground to stand on. At home you're you know nobody likes you

there. How do you expect other people like you? Well home base is like that's where you're supposed to feel your most comfortable. Yeah. And that place is awkward and not what you need it to be. How do you get any confidence? Everywhere else sucks too. Yeah. Of anybody else liking you, you know?

So they said he seemed to improve with treatment, but he remained a somewhat shy and lonely child according to his sister. The doctor described him as a rebellious loner who suffered chronic depression and frequently entertained thoughts of suicide. Oh, this kid's going to get married so young. So depressed. Yeah, he's so depressed. He then became an environmentalist after that because he's into animals and shit. So that was kind of the next thing.

And he once volunteered to clean birds after an oil spill in California He came in and was one of those bird cleaner people after school. He'll go in the Air Force. I guess to try to Put himself into the world and get confidence a lot of people go into the military back then to get confidence That was the thing stability stability. They come out there they're in a uniform they have to stand up straight they have good posture people are impressed by them because they look like they have their shit together. A lot of people back then that was the straight and narrow. Yeah but it also gives you the opportunity to straighten your life out but gives you a path of to success or whatever. That's what it looks like but sometimes it backfires. Yeah well yeah back then though that was kind of like the kind of it was considered like a you'll come out all straightened out if you go in the military

Yeah, judges used to tell youthful offenders You can either go to jail or go in the army and they'd go with you know, that'll straighten you out So he ended up doing he's a really smart guy He's a computer programmer later on and he apparently held a top security clearance for a good portion of the three and a half years he was in the Air Force. Oh yeah. Because he was doing computer shit and later became a computer programmer and he worked as a computer programmer for Stanford University in the mid 70s.

So yeah in the mid 70s very few people are doing computer programming that was considered Crazy that's like a what's a launching a space shuttle. Yeah, nobody knew what the fuck anything about that was so It's very different. So he's considered a very cutting-edge kind of a smart guy People at work described him as an introverted person which makes sense from his background didn't talk much and was excessively worried about his personal safety. Was real paranoid about anything happening to him and he was, you know, oh, I'm gonna get in a car accident

or that's gonna hurt me or, yeah. He's like fucking monk from the TV show basically. Always with the accidents. Always, anything could happen anything They also said this is fucking great his co-workers also said that he had a very high opinion of his work Although they all thought his programming skills were pretty mediocre Yeah, so one thing I did one thing you'll get computer people. They are fucking pricks when it comes to shit like that They are all just well, you don't know what you're doing. Obviously I do

They're fucking I lost all respect for those fucks when I watched the movie hackers. I Definitely avoided that pile of shit. It's an Angelina Jolie movie where they all had rollerblades remember the yeah Fucking terrible fucking movie that was so yeah, he's a sucks at it, but he thinks he's hot shit. He's one of those, he's an uppity nerd is what he is. So June, 1979, he gets married and this is, he's 35 years old. So you know, this is about time to get this going here. He marries Madeline D Stovall, S-T-O-V-E-L, who is a librarian at Stanford University.

So a co-worker, that's good, and a smart woman, and she's... they seem to be a good couple of librarians, usually a little more introverted, you know, they're a little quiet, they can rock in... That's a couple of people that keep track of their glasses and... They can pull back into themselves those people you know Together nice book so during their honeymoon They stay at the Kennecott Lodge They want to go on their honeymoon to a remote Alaskan wilderness honeymoon

That's what they wanted so they while they're there on their honeymoon They decided we're quitting our jobs and moving here. That's it, I wanna fuck you with a belly full of yak every night. Done. I might have a yak fucking every night, yeah. I'm gonna. I'm gonna smell your yak. We're gonna have hot yak sex every single night.

Yak on yak fucking business is what we're gonna do out here. Put your yak inside me. Can't wait. Oh, by the way, there's their shit buckets over there. Romantic. So that's what they said. So in 1980, they're talking to Liz Galineski, who owned the Kennecott Lodge here. She was among the first people in McCarthy to meet Lou and his wife.

Lonnie, she goes by, by the way, as honey mooners that's where they stayed at the lodge in 79. She ran the lodge. They sent her a Christmas gift that year after they went home. You changed our lives. Not long afterward they wrote to her to tell her they were moving to Alaska. You did it. And the lodge owner said both of them were very bright.

They seem like bright smart people. Yeah they're both, they're nerds. What the fuck? Yeah, that's all. So they eventually moved to Alaska, but they don't move right to McCarthy, because that's a, how do you get your shit there even? You know, you got.

That's a tough haul. So instead they first move into a duplex in Anchorage, which is the same as living in a fucking apartment in Costa Mesa at that point. What's the difference? You know what I mean? It's a duplex. Where Lou operated a pretty unsuccessful and unremarkable computer service company.

He's one of the first like dot coms who's like, we're going to make websites. We're going to fucking kill it. We're going to make billions. And it didn't work out. He started them all and sat back and waited for people. That's it. And there wasn't a lot of computing going on in Alaska back then, apparently. So he didn't like the fact that Alaska, Anchorage in particular, was having an economic development and population growth. He didn't like that at all. And the reason why that's happening is because of the Trans-Atlanta, Trans-Alaska pipeline

to bring oil down. So he didn't like that at all. And he was trying to figure out a way to have it stopped. Oh, he's gonna get in the middle of it. He's gonna get in the middle of it. A psychiatrist said that he considered himself the savior of the Alaskan wilderness. Is that right?

This guy from Kansas is the savior of the Alaskan wilderness. Is that right? This guy from Kansas is the savior of the Alaskan wilderness. Okay. So he hates the pipeline and not happy about it. The pipeline brings shitloads of oil here. Yeah. Down to here. Did you know that the US is the number one oil producing country in the world?

Yes. But they always- Shitloads. They always say, oh, we gotta stop the pendants on this and that. We have the world. Yes. But they always. We got shitloads. They always say, oh, we gotta stop dependence on this and that. We have the most. We produce the most. We need more oil. We produce the most already.

What are we talking about? But we want everyone else to fuck theirs out so that we're the only ones with the oil. We're just gonna save ours in the fridge. We keep it in the fridge like some bomb pops that we might want later. Yeah. Let's eat your Oreos and then we'll eat mine last. Oh, shit. And then you have to pay a dollar per Oreo.

That's what it is. So, summer of 1982. This is when they lived there for a while. This is when he and his wife purchased an unoccupied house on the property of the old Kennecott Copper Mine. It's about five miles outside of McCarthy and it's an old copper miner's house. That's what it is. It's like one of the workers houses.

And he spends, or both of them spend the summer of 1982 repairing it. They fix the house, they install insulation, they fix the roof, all the shit you would need to survive there in a winter. So it appeared to the residents that Lou was working hard to succeed out here. One person said he went to an incredible amount of effort on that cabin. It really worked it out. He'll remain this in the fall of 82. He'll remain at the house while his wife goes back to Anchorage and lives in the duplex. So he goes back and forth to Anchorage often to see his wife

He's gonna stay out there this fall and winter and get this place going. He's gonna He's gonna be like the pioneers like I'm gonna live out here and see if it's possible And then you come next year if it is basically now She Lonnie is working with the state division of energy and power development at this point. So she has a job in Anchorage That's why she has to stay. So in 1983, his computer business is a disaster. His marriage is falling apart because she's in Anchorage most of the time and he's living in the fucking woods like a lunatic, so that's not helping much. And he's increasingly mad at the pipeline.

Hates it. Increasingly more pissed off about it, yeah. Because the pipeline's why our relationship sucks. Well, yeah, well obviously. When there's oil flowing beneath your feet, you can't communicate. That's usually how it works. I can't do it. I can hear it.

We gotta get out there. I can hear it. And your job is here, so now this is all the pipeline's fault. The pipeline cost eight billion dollars to build, by the way. Yeah, they're gonna stop it. Literally, it's an 800 mile fucking pipeline. So. Well, cost $8 billion to build, by the way. Yeah, that's a lot. Literally.

It's an 800-mile fucking pipeline. Oh, you don't like it? We'll kill the idea. Don't worry about it. It's now responsible for transporting 25% of total U.S. oil production. Don't worry. We'll shut it down. Shut it down.

Well, you know what? He's going to really make a case for it. You never know. Really? Maybe a convincing and passionate argument would get people to say we don't need energy at all or independence or money or anything else. According to one psychiatric report, quote, Hastings was disturbed by the population growth and influx of money into the state and determine that the best way to interrupt this was to

destroy the pipeline and thus cut off Alaska's wealth and consequent growth. So to keep this the forest, we have to kill this pipeline. We have to destroy it. That's what he was. So somehow, he decides he himself, he doesn't have an environmental group. There's not 100 people. He, one guy, is somehow going to destroy the transit Alaska

pipeline, which seems difficult. Probably, it doesn't seem like it's just sitting on top of the ground ready for you to fucking bash with a sledgehammer probably. You gotta be real good and strategic. I think you can do it. And then if you do destroy it, unless you destroy all 800 miles of it

or they're just gonna fix what you broke and get the oil going again, so what are you gonna do? Well, he bought a bunch of guns is what he did. Oh. He bought a bunch of guns and at least 2000 rounds of ammo, which honestly in the Alaskan wilderness doesn't seem excessive. Everybody's got that.

Yeah, it seems you could get, a whole family of bears could attack you or so you have no idea what's going on out there. Anything could happen. Fucking like prospector ghosts and like copper miner zombies could come out you never know he also built a silencer Yeah, which he yeah, no he built a silencer That's not the weird part. Okay weird part is he covered it in burr and beaver fur. Oh He had a beaver fur silencer. Why? You gotta make that motherfucker waterproof.

What the fuck is that about? Why would you want that? That's his going out silencer. I pictured him petting it while he's holding the gun. Like a fucking dog's head. That's your fall silencer right there. Wow. Beaver. And he started shooting at rabbits to get good at shooting. He also compiles a list of 200 of Alaska's political and civic leaders, including phone numbers and home addresses of the members of the Anchorage police department's crisis intervention response team. He's a little pissed off at them. What's going on? The neighbors like him though. Up here, that's considered folksy. You know?

Some wild information to be culling. Up here, this is considered just normal. Yo, what are you? Everybody up there wants to blow something up. What are you, Golden Gate Bridge, you? This guy over here? Oh, you want the Lincoln Tunnel you're gonna blow up. This guy's doing the pipeline.

We're all in this together. We're all crazy fucking oh my god anti-society lunatics so the neighbors like him the Liz who owns the Kennecott Lodge said if I'd have needed help with something I never would have hesitated to ask him for help good guy bring your beaver silencer let's get after it shoot some shit his neighbors describe I need a shipment of yak to come in, he can help me with it. His neighbors describe him as quiet and said he rarely took part in group events. Don't like that. And people, there they go, that's normal though. Some people here are here because they're not into people. So people let him be and nobody even worried about it. It never stood out as any. It's everybody up here.

It's such aberrant behavior to be up here that whatever weird shit you're doing, people just go, well, I mean, I'm sure I do weirder shit. That's what they all do. He just likes to keep it to himself. He don't want us to know. Well, that's exactly what Bonnie Morris said. Everyone lets everyone be themselves out here. If you want to come by for tea or just keep to yourself.

So, whichever you want to do is fine. Everybody minds their own fucking business out here is you want to come by for tea or just keep to yourself so whichever you want to do is fine everybody minds their own fucking business out here is the point so others mention that he had a Lou had a big passion for reading detective novels okay very much into that which is a terrible sign that's does he start fires to that's fucking the Bundy BTK special there is those fucking detectives magazines with the half naked woman who's being held against her will in some way on the cover that's that's every Kemper's favorite fucking thing every sex pervert murderer of the era of the 60s 70s and 80s all were like I loved those things I cut pictures out Holy shit So people under assume names I would think back then

so the Jim harrower who own whose owns great Kennecott land company owned the land under Hastings Cabin So he only owns the cabin not the land under the cabin. Okay, so it's basically a trailer park an Alaskan trailer park at that Yeah He describes That he had that blue had an ornate hand carved wooden plaque mounted on his cabin wall and it read Good luck you fucking goons.

Oh, okay. That's what it read, okay. This guy has an explanation. He said he read a lot of detective books and detectives in those books are referred to as goons. Is that right? So yes, he's in the 50s, yeah, these old 50s books. So he is saying, good luck you fucking goons

being with detectives. So later on, another person who wrote all of their thoughts down about Lou said, in the winter my exposure to Hastings was limited to mail days when most everyone got together. Mail day is Tuesday by the way. Everyone gathers on the airstrip and waits for the plane to come in with the mail. And I assume more yak sauce

because you got to have that. You can't have yak without the sauce. It's just not the same. You know what I mean? Somebody puts A1 on it. You think they look down on them? Yes. You got to have, you got to have yak sauce. It's called Y1. It's different. One Y. So this read, in the winter, in the, I was limited to mail days, most everyone got together, and at the home of Chris Richards, which is his closest neighbor, by the way, Lou's closest neighbor, where the three of us would play cards and talk.

My general impression from these meetings was that he was quiet and reserved, not going out of his way to socialize, and seemed to want to be left alone for the most part, which I would think would describe everybody out there. Talking about science and technology, the world situation, the future of Kennecott, I felt he was certainly intelligent and fairly knowledgeable on these topics, but disillusioned and down on society in general. He seemed not well prepared in skills or supplies to live out in the Kennecott area. Oh no.

Yeah, you got to know what you're doing out there. You're dead. And seemed a bit odd and it seemed a bit odd to come and go as he did to and from Anchorage. The fuck do you care where he goes? Seemed odd that he keeps leaving and coming back. Fuck you. He's got a wife out there, bro. Maybe he's trying to just go get some trim from his wife.

Yeah, quick fucking blowjob and get back in and down here. He said, in general, people are accepted in spite of any differences by the others in the McCarthy-Kennicott area, and live and let live attitude seems to prevail. So much of what I mentioned here did not seem unlike things that could be noticed in others living out here.

So saying, this is not unique to him. Everything I said about him, you could put it on Bill and Bob and fucking Betty and anybody else whose name starts with a B. And the gal that runs that fucking lot. Liz. So they said the lack of conversation maybe distanced him from a lot of his neighbors because one thing the neighbors all do is socialize out there. Because there's

no fucking TV. There's nothing. The only entertainment you have is to go talk to your neighbor maybe. So they gather and they talk a lot and he doesn't really participate in it that often. So they look at that as a little weird. So they said that longtime residents are really good storytellers there. You got to be able to... There's no TV.

You are the entertainment. So it's like campfire times, the 1800s and shit. You got to be able to tell a story, spin a little yarn. So they said that this is a practice skill around this area is to be able to tell a good story because that's all they have. They get together and what happened to you? Well, I was doing this and that and all that kind of shit. So they said that other than his lack of talking, nothing really stood out at all there with that about him. He's just kind of a quiet guy, just like a lot of other people. Is he strange though is the question.

And some people are this loy green who has lived in this area since the 1960s Considered his clothing strange What I don't know fucks. They wear I think you just wear whatever the fuck keeps you warm I don't even think the clothing matters man He recalls a conversation with Gary Green who was the local bush pilot Here by the way not not related to Lloyd Green. There's 22 people and people have the same fucking name. Of course they do.

And is it Lloyd, not Lloyd? Lloyd, just L-O-Y, Lloyd. So Lloyd and the pilot were standing on a McCarthy path, just a trail, when they saw Lou Hastings approaching. Lloyd said, you know that Lou, he's kind of strange to the other guy. So Gary, the pilot answered quote, well, so are you. We all are.

So what? Which is a fucking great answer. Well, you're a fucking weirdo too. What do you think? You're normal? You think you're better than anybody? We're standing in the middle of the fucking woods, hundreds of miles from civilization and you're going to be judging people on whether they're weird or not.

Apart from this local area, nobody else is called a bush pilot. Yeah. Oh shit, not since the fucking, you know, the 1910s. The only other place that a bush pilot exists is in Australia. In Australia or whatever that movie was with fucking Mel Gibson and Robert Downey Jr. where they were flying. I think that's what they were doing. Was it Air Dumbo?

No, it was the one. I think it was a Vietnam movie, but they were like playing a little play on it. I think that's what they were doing. Air Dumbo was it? No, it was the one. It was it was a Vietnam movie, but they were like flying a little plane. I don't fucking remember. It's from it's a shit movie. It doesn't matter. Right. So he said, we all are. So what? So he says that everyone hears his lawyer. Everyone hears a little strange in their way.

So, OK, here's just another strange guy and he's not doing anything. He's anti-social, but we're not tremendously social anyway And so we really don't make pay much attention. So lose strange. So what? Now Tony Zack who is a local resident here says he wasn't very friendly But then everybody here is running from the rest of the world all these people there's no red flags here You can't raise a red flag because this is a place to do any red flag is like, yeah, but I'm fucking weirder than that. I do weirder shit than that all the time.

There's no way around it. Any thought you have, then you walk past a mirror and go, well, fuck that thought. Well, look at me. Look at this guy. Look at my cheek beard. Haven't shaved it. It's about a half inch from my eye right now. I should probably shave that.

My eyeballs are almost hairy. Jesus. So here is Judy Miller, who also is around this area. She says, my very first impression of Lou was he was a walking computer, such an emotionless person. She said she encountered him at the Bush airstrip several weeks, you know, a year all the time. She said she replied vaguely when he asked the whereabouts of her cabin, which is difficult to find in the woods. She was like, I'm not telling this guy where

I live type of thing. He's like, so where you live, which is seemed to be a normal conversation there, but not with this guy. So Lester and Florence Hegeland, let's talk about them, the Hegelands. Mr. Hegeland, Lester, is 64. His wife Florence goes by Flo, she's 58. They're both from North Dakota. And they have a son and two daughters, and they've raised them.

A couple of the kids have moved to Minnesota. One of the kids lives in Wasilla. They have their grandparents. They're just living out here. They're doing it. They've been here for a long time. Their home here, I'll read from this article, the home of Flo and Lester Hegeland is tucked away in the woods just off the McCarthy airstrip. You get there by walking a mile up the road to Kennecott, turning right at the far end of the airstrip and backtracking nearly a half mile.

These people. A mile and a half in the middle of nowhere. Imagine if you started getting chest pains there. What, do you just die in the snow? Like, fuck it, I'm gonna die. Chest hurts, babe. See, see around. There's not a hospital for hours around here.

Yep. So they said, or by taking a shortcut. This is a quote, go up past Tony's Axe place and look for the red boot. Go right and look for the path. There's a red boot that's a landmark of this is where you turn at Tony's Axe house. That's where they... Find the footwear in the woods and you're almost there. That is crazy.

Well, hopefully before it snows, because after it snows you're never going to see it. So they said, finding Tony's Axe is no problem. It is in the legend of many colloquial maps. To find the cemetery, go up past Tony's Axe and look for the rock on the right. My God. Um, to find the old round house, go toward Kennecott. If you see Tony's Axe, you've gone too far. No, that's not directions man.

Wow, the faded rubber boot was upside down on a stick just off the road. They put a stick in the ground, stuck a boot on it and they were like there's a landmark. Start giving directions based on this shit. That's a fucking street sign now. So they said behind it was a path that zigzagged and up a long and steep slope. At the top, the trail vanished into a clearing surrounded by tall spruce and aspen trees. The old caterpillar trail led from clearing to the Hegeland's house. The Hegeland answered the door always by saying, it's open. They never, they know who it is. It's one of 20

people. So unless you got beef with somebody. That's a fascinating way. They genuinely tell people just come in. Come in, yeah. Because they know who it is. That's insane. They live on the airstrip and that's where people- Don't care.

That's where people- Oh, in the house they get the mail. No, the mail comes, but everybody waits for the plane rather than standing in the middle of the fucking airstrip with 80 fucking mile an hour winds. They go in this people's cabins for five minutes away for the plane rather than stand right that's what I'm saying airstrip with 80 fucking mile an hour winds They go in this people's cabins for five minutes away for the plane. Do it never did a sight unseen I would just come in the middle of nowhere. So I wouldn't do any of this shit Everything that happens we can go I wouldn't do that and I think it's

You wouldn't eat yak. None of the other ones would do any of this shit. You wouldn't shit in a bucket. We wouldn't fucking ride the cable tram into town. I wouldn't eat yak. I'm not doing any of this shit. They put up with every bit of this. They put up with all of it. Every bit.

And they love it. And they tell all of it. It's open. All the yaks come in. Everybody comes in. No one gives a shit. Come get your mail, Mr. Yak. of it. It's open. All the Yaks come in. Everybody comes in. No one gets a shit. Come get your mail Mr. Yak.

That's fucking great. This article says Lester Hagelin is 60. At the time it was written. He has a pinch of Copenhagen snuff under his lip. From time to time he leans to one side to find the spittoon beside his chair. Another people. This is like, another time, man. An actual spittoon on the ground he has. Not a couple. In the 80s. This is like in 79, this article is from. Mrs. Hegelin does most of the talking.

She's an energetic 55. She looks at the floor when she smiles. The Hegelins moved to McCarthy from Homer, which is also not like a well populated place. Is that Alaska? Yeah, yeah, up there in 1967 for peace and quiet, they say. from Homer, which is also not like a well populated place. Is that Alaska? Yeah, yeah, up there in 1967 for Peace and Quiet, they say. Which is, yeah, that's all that's up there,

is Peace and Quiet. They said, at first the couple settled down in a house in town. Flo spent her winter days painting, making jewelry, and tutoring the couple's children under the state correspondent school program, because there's no schools there. Yeah.

The courses arrived on the weekly mail plane. Waiting for your math test. Yeah. Comes in on the plane. Along with the correspondence art courses, Mrs. Hagelin followed to learn how to paint. Lester ran a trap line. This is something. We've never heard this as a profession. Like ran a trap line. This is something we've never

heard this as a profession. Like you could, if you wanted this to be your job, you couldn't have it be your job. He ran a trap line for Wolverines. Well, I didn't even know those were real. I just found out right now that's a real animal. Wolverines, wolves, fox and Link selling the furs commercially. He worked a diamond drill at a mining operation on Nicolai Creek and Lester said, we lived good we had some money. I wasn't too worried about it. You can't just have a cinch all your life. In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of a beloved wife and mother. But this tragic loss of life quickly turns

into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her, and she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the internet is the Kill List, a cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses and specific instructions for people's murders. This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger.

And it turns out, convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy. Follow Kill List on the Wandry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more Exhibit C True Crime shows like Morbid early and add free right now by joining Wandry+. Check out Exhibit C in the Wandry app for all your True Crime listening. In the upcoming episode of Killer Psyche, we will be diving deep into the unfolding case of accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuerman. Heuerman is awaiting trial for the murder of three women, with many more victims still

being linked to him. Now a recently released tell-all bail application goes into unusual details and lengths to keep him locked away, revealing shocking updates about the case. Listen as we take a closer look into the newly revealed evidence and charges, bringing new insight into what we already know about the case and what may have motivated him. Follow Killer Psyche on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to Killer Psyche and more Exhibit C true crime shows like Morbid and The Kill List early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Check out Exhibit C in the Wondery app for all your true crime listening. What happens when a hacker uncovers hundreds of murder plots targeting people all over the world? Each of them posted on a hitman for hire site on the dark web, with their photos, habits and intimate details all used against them. What happens when they learn that the threat is coming from the person closest to them?

Or what is the psychological profile of a father who would murder his own son and wife all to hide a drug addiction and years of embezzlement? How do we understand the actions of the most complex and twisted minds? From cases of serial killers, relationships turned dark, to manipulative scammers preying on the insecurities of regular people. Wondries Exhibit C is your partner in crime. Listen to the best of True Crime by following Exhibit C on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to hit True Crime shows like Kill List and Killer Psyche early and ad free

right now by joining Wondry+. You can't just have a cinch all your life. Everything can't be easy maybe? I don't know if that'll even work. Mrs. Hagelin said they found peace and quiet particularly in the wintertime when the air was just so still you went outside and it just rang Yeah, yeah Yeah, you hear shit crackling. Yeah, you hear crackling loud silence is the worst. I don't like it. It's fucking blaring up there. It must be. Geez, there's nothing other than the Wolverines to fucking... He's a real man. This guy's a real son of a bitch. Yeah, he's a man. Yeah. But then McCarthy began changing. The

road from Chitona was improved in the early 1970s and the state built the infamous bridge over the Kennecott River. Taurus poured in and more people bought property and homes. In Mrs. Hegelin's word, the essence left this place. The trap lines began yielding less and less. We're running out of Wolverines up here everybody. I'm still wearing last year's Wolverine trousers. Come on, Jesus Christ. I've got no Wolverines to sell people. Wolverines. Holy shit and the money grew tighter.

The Heglans began looking for other income. Hegeland became a real estate agent for a decedent of John E. Barrett, the original homesteader of McCarthy. The Heglans became notary publics and Mrs. Hegeland began marketing her artwork. Then they hooked it up. They got the plum job in this area. What'd they do? They got the post of the aviation weather observer for the National Oceanic Atmospheric

Administration. What is that? They're going to monitor shit, monitor weather. Weather station. Yeah. They're going to be the people there. They're it. Yep.

They said that 13 times a day, 365 days a year, the Hegelins read wind and weather instruments in their front yard and radio in their findings That's their job. This is what it is here and the government's gonna pay them Well, they got paid twelve hundred dollars a month in 1979 for that, which is pretty good. That's a living back there That's absolutely that's like up there. Forget it That's like around what like people like the average person's income in the states was back then for work You know for like a job up there. You don't need anything. Totally. Yeah, it's a steady income Not subject to the vagaries of wildlife migration. You don't have to worry about what the Wolverines are up to this season Yeah, they said the checks come in sure as winter and dependable income is as much of a luxury

in the bush as liquor and women once were in McCarthy. The Heglans now live in a house they built near the airstrip, a contemporary one-level frame structure that would be at home in any Anchorage middle-class subdivision and is the most modern in McCarthy. Say it, money. The long shelf on the front porch is the community post office, a service the Heglans provide for free. They just don't need a fee for that.

Every Tuesday, the couple sorts mail delivered by the mail plane, piling letters, catalogs, and magazines in piles labeled only by a piece of paper with a name. There's only 20 fucking who cares. Yeah. Let's not say piles. There can't be lots. Right. How much can there be? Right. A couple of magazines. I would be fucking subscribing to everything if I lived up there. Please send me

something. I can't take it. They just I don't like they get to touch everybody's shit and they're just people though. Yeah. They're not getting paid for it. I mean, well, they're the weather people. So they're great. We're trusting them with the weather. Trust the government people, so they're... Great point. We're trusting them with the weather. Trust me. That's the government people right there. Trust me with my Playboy subscription too. So they said, there's no post boxes. It's too much fuss with combinations and keys. Under the Hegeland system, if someone moves,

the name is simply thrown away. I don't need that piece of paper anymore. The lifestyle is one of very few diversions. The Heglans can pick up KCAM radio from Glen Allen and they have a Citizens Band radio, a fucking CB, to talk to who? There's nobody there. Who are you talking to? The Yaks? What are we talking about? We're of heaters out there to tell the Wolverines to come in. Yeah, come on in. Calling in the Wolverines. I love it. There's no television reception, no movie theater. No store of any kind and no church There isn't even a street corner or a park bench. The nearest neighbors are a mile away

So when Lester and flow want conversation they talk to eat they talk each other Over talk to each other over and over the years They have learned to clip their sentences to the essentials all All Lester has to hear is the subject of Flo's comment. He already knows her views about it. Yeah, there's not a... You've heard every story that person has, you know, every drop of what they think about everything. You'd just be like, will you shut the fuck up at some point, wouldn't you?

He says say less than he fucking means it. Oh my God. You'd be like... Say less. Just say less than he fucking means it. Oh my god. You'd be like. Say less, just say trash, I'll take it out. Your left nostril makes a sound when you breathe. I've got to pin down to the left. I know what that whistle means. Oh man.

That whistle means it's time for the shoes on. Lester stops thoughts mid-sentence, Flo completes them in her mind. When the conversation involves a third party, the Heglans do a verbal pas-a-do. Flo begins a sentence and hands it off to Lester to polish off. So they're like a 90s hip-hop group, like the Beastie Boys. They just go back and forth. Or they're the Sklar Brothers.

Or they work over an entire... That's impressive. It is impressive, yeah. Those motherfuckers. Work over an entire paragraph together, each one slipping in phrases as if on cue. Yeah, you'd have all of your shit bits. These are bits that you have now. That's it. The sentences roll along without missing a beat. Flow to Lester to flow on why they moved to Alaska. We moved to get away from the rat race and then to Leicester to get back to living with nature like

we did in our childhood in North Dakota and then back to flow. We're at home with it. And flow in Leicester and flow to Leicester and back and then to Leicester again on government intervention on national monuments. There was too much government intervention in farming so we just quit and they jump in. The other person sold out lock, stock and barrel, and then the other one jumps back in. Now we're living in a national monument. And the other one says, and we're ready to leave that too. I just wanted no structure whatsoever. Ready to leave that too. They said they've bought a home in Wrangel and they say

they will move when they sell the house and they get the weather job goes along with them. They say the people in Wrangle are easy going, they're not going to set the world on fire and they know it. They're losers and they're fine with it, it's fine. They're comfortable with mediocrity. See what you got to be is comfortable with failure, then you just settle on in. You look on inside yourself and go, you're a piece of shit and just Never gonna get any better huge piece of shit. So February

No, go ahead. Go ahead. What Wrangle is it is is it like Wrangler? Just Wrangle? Do well, it is. Oh Wrangel Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's not Wrangler, yeah. So February 28th, 1983, Chris Richards, we talked about him before, I think he's 29 at this point, he is Lew Hastings' closest neighbor, okay? He works summer construction and then collects unemployment and food stamps during the winter, as everybody here does

because if you don't have any money. So the only other person living near this area by the mines is Lou Hastings. So these are the only two people in this area, Lou and Chris. And Chris says, quote, "'I didn't really like the guy personally.'" Which is fucking brutal if he's the only guy

literally on the mountain with you. He said, but I was trying to get along with him because I figured I was stuck with him as a neighbor. Sure enough. Yeah, you'd have to try. So I mean, I talked to the fucking mailman and you know, he says crazy shit sometimes. So trying, I'm trying my best. They do that. Yeah. When Richards mentioned that several persons in McCarthy were on a skiing trip that day, Hastings seemed disappointed, Richard said, like nobody invited him. Like, aw, one of those. Yeah, Hastings played a board game with Chris here.

This is in Kennecott, which is a few miles north here. Hastings won, blew. During the course of the conversation, Richards mentioned that a couple of McCarthy's residents were away on a skiing trip. Like I said, he felt mad again. Richards also warned Hastings about cutting firewood from dead trees on land that had been subdivided recently and thus might be off limits to such activity.

Who's going to notice or care? There's nobody here. They said he seemed to, this is Richard said, he seemed to appreciate the fact that I was concerned about him at the time. He said, oh, thank you for letting me know. Now, the next day is March 1st. It's a Tuesday and it's mail day. So the Heglans, we talked about where their place is and who they are. They are where everybody congregates, shares news from the outside. They have tea and coffee and bullshit and gossip of everybody around. And one trooper, a state trooper said, see, Tuesday is mail plane day.

Some big day. They said, quote, you can have Easter and you can have Thanksgiving and you can have Christmas you can take them We got Tuesday. He said but it's not as important as Tuesday Everybody meets at the Hegelin's house to visit and get the mail mail plane day. I mean you live for that What happens if Christmas lands on mail? Oh fuck us. We're screwed They said it's correspondence. I check my box every day. They get mail once a week and made contact.

They just go to say hi because they're bored. These people are fucked. They can say they hate, they love, I don't like people, I like living out here, but then when they're out there, they just want to talk to people because that's what humans do. He checks the box every day knowing full well nothing showed up Yeah, I would kick this guy out of my house. Yeah, you show up on Tuesday's asshole That's it you're out

Yeah Wednesday Is it anybody but Frank okay Wednesday through Wednesday through Monday you answer it Racking your shotgun and then screaming, who the fuck is it? I just leave a little paper sign and it says, come in except Frank or whoever this guy is. See you Tuesday, asshole. Oh, he said, people in McCarthy still conversationally

refer to mail day as simply as mail, like it's a place or event. I'm going to mail, they say. Wow. Yeah, they still say, I'm going to mail they say. Wow. Yeah they still say I'm going to mail. Do you have anything going out that you want me to take? So this is the day March 1st 1983 8 30 a.m. the beginning of an exciting fucking mail day man. This is a huge day big time. Chris Richards is hanging out at his cabin and Lou Hastings shows up and

Richard was preparing his breakfast using no modern appliances. He's literally got a wood stove that's got a stove on it. He's one of those people. Hastings had been over the night before and you know they they were talking about all this shit and Richards here thought that Lou had come by to go down to mail Like maybe we'll go together. Maybe he wanted to see if we wanted to walk to mail together to mail and so Richard said well you want to come in for a cup of coffee I'm making myself a little breakfast and then we'll go go to mail right some Wolverine tree That's great with Wolverine chorizo with yak patties. You got to have the yak patties. They make it all the better.

Yak links. So Hastings had a big heavy backpack. He sets that down and they said he set it down and before entering he took a deep breath. Big deep breath, but he's a big guy too. So maybe he's just winded from the walk. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. Big backpack, all that. So, Richards, Chris Richards turns his back to the door and face the stove to continue preparing his breakfast. Then he began to turn his head to say something to Lou again, like, hey, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. As he reached for a cup of coffee, Chris does, Richards, he reaches for the cup of coffee, all of a sudden out of nowhere, Lou shoots him twice with a handgun. What? Shoots him, hit him in the neck, and grazed his head with a shot. Bang, bang. Oh, he's going for headshots, yeah, absolutely. So at this point, Chris said the first shot went through the lens of my glasses and on

in. To my head, by the way, on in means, which is really a light way to say that. And he said it scrambled inside the right part of his face. It's a 22 bullet, so it bounced around a little bit in there. He said that this unfolded very quietly because he's using the beaver coated silencer. He's got that out. And he said that the silencer, he said he kept firing at him.

So Chris said he felt like it was a scene in a silent movie because there's these shots coming but there's no gunshots. It's really weird. So he said it was strange as fuck. He said that he had no time to figure out what was happening. There was no like, hey, let's evaluate the situation. That didn't exist. No time to prepare.

So he said another bullet hit him in the back of the head and then a larger caliber bullet hit him in the, like grazed his arm. So he's got a rifle too. He's got a rifle and a handgun. So Richard said before he knew it, he was on the floor at Lou's feet and he said that you know he was listening to Lou he looked up at Lou and Lou said to him and I quote you should see yourself you're down on the ground you're already dead just stay down there and I'll make it easy for you. That's what he

tells him you should see yourself scrambling around like you're gonna get away from me this This is crazy. My word. Stay down, I'll make it nice and clean. I'll give you a shot to the head and get it over with. You're making it real uncomfortable to watch, man. So Richards was like, what the f- that woke him up to what was happening. Before that he was trying to figure it out.

He goes, oh this motherfucker's trying to kill me. I'm gonna fight for my life. So then he said that turned at first to surprise, then he was scared and then it was after this he said it was adrenaline filled rage once he said, I'll shoot you. So Richards, yeah, it was funny, he said, suddenly I was goddamn mad. That's what Richard said. He said, you talk about someone dying with their boots on. I almost died with one on and one off as we'll talk about here in a second so Richards then reaches up and grabs a knife off the kitchen counter and stabs Lou in the thigh with it okay this is a

scene man like every fucking horror movie all of this in a cabin that looks like it's from 1912 because it's got nothing no electricity modern appliances none of this shit wood burning stove It's fucking crazy. So he stabs him in the thigh and then runs out the door Richards does Hastings is there with his thigh wound so Chris Richards escapes into the waist deep snow by the way to March 1st up here wasting times Shot yeah four times. I think four times four times wearing only socks and one slipper a t-shirt and corduroy pants waist deep waist deep corduroy pants one shoe and a t-shirt

so yeah he scrambles three quarters of a mile up this in the snow This is a rugged son of a bitch this richard's man up a steep hill to a neighbor's unoccupied cabin During this by the way as he's running Lou is firing shots at him from his cabin as he's fleeing with the rifle He's taking aim and shooting at him. He nicked his arm with a shot, too And it's I think a223 he's got. So it's a decent rifle here. It's a good hunting rifle. Yeah. At the cabin, at the unoccupied cabin,

this guy knew that these people go for the winter, Richards found boots, a parka, and snowshoes. Nobody's there. To try to get it, make his escape here. So from there, he's bleeding, he stumbles about 1 10th of a mile southeast to another cabin that's there, he's bleeding, he stumbles about one-tenth of a mile southeast to another cabin that's there, the cabin of Tim and Amy Nash, who this cabin was situated on the trail connecting Kennecott to McCarthy.

Chris said he was expecting to be shot in the back as he ran down the trail from Kennecott, but he made it. So he makes it to Tim and Amy Nash's cabin. Tim is 38, Amy's 25. They'd been married in the continental states and moved up here. During Christmas of 82, Tim had a nearly he was building a log cabin and he returned to his log cabin here then. He was building it then. The Nash's had just gotten back from a trip to the East Coast where they were married

at Christmas time. They got back on Valentine's Day, it's March 1st. Now Tim had lived in McCarthy for seven years, worked construction in Glenallen, and then got a divorce, so he was living alone in a cabin that he was building as he was living in it with hand tools Nope, no power tools because there's no electricity. Imagine building a house with hand tools You see it on Instagram all the time and I don't believe any of them are doing it There's a lot of time-lapsing going on there. You betcha

I don't believe they show you this they show you that, and then it's all done. I think some electric shit did some work here and there. How many times did you fucking miss that screw and go, God damn it motherfucker, and all that shit? Yeah, give me a break. So he's been living alone in a desolate cabin, and then Amy showed up in 82, a 25 year old woman as a tourist showed up and he somehow charmed her into fucking staying here with him. Suckered. Wow. Um, one of the neighbors said the day

they came back was Valentine's day. Isn't that sweet? And then the neighbor wanted to be real sweet and real accommodating. So he said, quote, we brought them a quarter of a moose and a mincemeat pie with a heart carved in it. Isn't that nice? Mincemeat pie. Have a moose part and some mincemeat pie with a heart carved. How romantic. Got you a quarter moose. Whenever I think romance and a gift, I think, man,

bring me part of a moose or a yak or some sort of weird Alaskan mountain animal. A quarter of a moose and a mincemeat pie. A quarter of a moose is the funniest gift I've ever heard. It's the weirdest wedding present ever, isn't it? What did you get from them? Quarter moose? What?

They gave you a quarter moose? Gee, that's not bad. And if you think about it, the mincemeat pie had some thought behind it. It wasn't just a pie they had sitting around. They made a heart in it for them. Yeah. So what is mincemeat? A bunch of meats mixed together. Ew, that's so gross. It's pieces you've picked off of it's like a yak foot the meat off a yak foot mixed with like a Moose ear all an eighth of the moose that nobody eats Alaskan head cheese Alaskan haggis will call it. How about that? So back to the action yeah at the cabin the nashes are trying to help him

You know fix him his wounds He's bleeding all over the place. They're like, holy shit, and he's trying to tell them what happened. He's badly wounded Richards I mean he is wounded. He's got a bullet in his face for fuck's sake one of his neck and four Yeah, and so he said nobody could have done anything more for me. Richard said of the nashes they helped me out so much He said I feel particularly bad for them Hastings had already been by their cabin now when Richard's neared the house, he called for help he hadn't been able to lace his boots and Now and they said Tim was Richard said Tim was sure I had cut myself under the eye. I screamed god damn it I've been shot Lou shot me as soon as you see him start blasting he said

Start blast because this guy can't he goes. Oh, no you cut your eye and he goes fuck cut Cut my ass Lou shot me fucking shoot him if he comes up here. He's a psychopath start blasting Now Nash wanted Richards to relax. He's like, let's calm down He figured that Chris and Lou had gotten in a fight over something, right? What so he's like and up there you don't take sides or judge you just go. Hey, listen, that's between the two of you guys I don't want to take sides here So he said he thought you guys were fighting and that the incident was probably said it's probably over now

he said you guys were fighting now, it's over and Richard said but that wasn't the case. I told him, I'll calm down when you load all your guns. That's when I'll calm down. All your guns. One for each of us. The Nash's said that they had already seen Hastings heading toward McCarthy 20 minutes earlier,

heading toward town. Richards then said, we have to arm ourselves and go to the runway to warn the others because we don't know what his deal is. He just shot me for no reason. Maybe he'll shoot other people. So he said, they're going to be congregating for the mail plane. It's coming soon. We have to, you've been shot.

You need to go to the doctor. I'll tell them. Well, to get to the doctor, you have to go to the airstrip. Oh, you got to get on that fucking plane. So either way you have to go to the airstrip. Oh, you gotta get on that man. You gotta get on that fucking plane. So either way, we gotta go to the airstrip and bring the guns is what he's saying. Got any outgoing? Sure do, this shot man.

Sure. This guy here, got a bullet in his neck. Anything else we need to tell you about him? You're gonna have to put some stamps on his face to get in this plane. Sorry. Got one of them big envelopes? One of them one size, you know, one cost for whatever you put in it. Got one of them?

He's going to be heavy to ship. If it fits its ships. If it fits its ships. So the Nash's ride a snowmobile pulling Chris Richards injured ass in a sled behind them like a water skate. But I just got bouncing on the snow. Hang on. This is awesome. Okay.

So they're doing all this. At the north end of the strip, they meet Gary Green, who's the pilot we talked about before. He's the local pilot and guide who was cleaning snow off of one of his planes. That's who they see. Green said that he too saw Hastings about 20 minutes earlier heading toward the Hegeland's house. So the Nash's and the pilot Green decide that Tim Nash, they make a plan, Tim you go check on the Hegelands. Okay, make sure they're okay. Green, I'll warm, me Green, I'll warm up my plane

to fly this guy to Glen Allen to go to the hospital. Okay, it's about a 40 minute flight away. So holy shit. Here we go. About at the house, halfway up the airstrip, Nash was alerted he's going to the Hegeland's house when he sees blood and smells gun smoke. He's like, uh oh. So he's like, this is not good. When he shows up in the house, he opens the door and Hastings is in the house standing there with his gun in his hand and he shoots fucking Tim Nash in the leg. Wow. Turns and just blasts Tim Nash in the leg. So Nash is all fucked up. Now he's got shot

in the leg just now and he's going to try to take off with a leg wound now. So on the way by the way, because we heard of Hastings kind of took us a weird route there. So Hastings he had stopped at the Kennecott Lodge which is the area's only hotel. Remember Liz? Who he sent a Christmas gift to who owns this place? And he burned it to the fucking ground. What? Burned it to the fucking ground. It was closed for the winter. Nobody was there. He burned it to the ground, man. That's it. A fierce fire broke out. It's a log structure. Caught real quick. Done. So the Hegeland house, what's going on there? Okay. The Hegelands,

obviously, they do their weather shit and all that kind of stuff here. They are on official postmasters, all that. They also at their house, they had Maxine Edwards was hanging out waiting for the mail. She's 52. She crossed the frozen river to get some exercise to get here. Her husband Jim stayed home. She's lived here since 1953, Maxine Edwards, in the valley where her and her husband built their own house and raised two children through correspondence school. So they actually are... They did it. They didn't come after the kids got, you know, I could see the kids

are gone. Well, let's move up there or before you have kids. But they said, oh no, this is our family. You don't have to do this. Nope. Her friend, all of her friends called her Maxine the Diligent. She was a hardworking woman. They say she could operate a bulldozer in the day and then serve dinner on linen and crystal at night. She was Alaska and fancy all at once. She was quite the lady. Maxine walked to a house a hundred feet off the McCarthy airstrip and pulling a small plastic sled behind her and this is where they were all gathering. Also there was Bonnie Morris.

Remember we talked about her? Got some quotes earlier. She's lived here for about seven years. She arrived in her dog sled to drop off some mail. People are coming by dog sled, literally. She's got a, she's mushing. Dogs drove me here. Yeah.

Hold on, I gotta check my ride and see if it's done shitting yet. Wait, are you done? Can you get a DOI on one of those? You got to. I would assume so, although the dogs are really driving, honestly. I mean. They've been drinking. What if, yeah, that's another thing.

One of her dogs was in heat so she couldn't stay. So she left before Hastings got there. There might be a gangbang out there right now. It's crazy. They're all fucking. So yeah, I guess that was distracting because everybody's got dogs. That's why I did this.

So they have a, she's got some mail, she's dropping it off. She invited Maxine Edwards after she got the mail to come by for some cookies. I got some cookies I just made. Stop on by on the way home. And then Bonnie slid it home. Okay. Now Green, who was warming up his engine here, he taxied to the end of the runway to load Chris Richards and it was plane. It's at that point that Amy Nash noticed her husband running down the airstrip here with a fucking gunshot wound in his leg Yeah, right. So he's returns to the end of the runway and tells them what he had just seen

He said I just went to the head Hegelins I smelled heavy gun smoke saw blood all over the fucking walls in the house. It's like a butcher scene in there He said I think the Hegelins are probably dead And he said it looks like someone tried to clean up the blood in the kitchen. There was like white marks on the blood and shit like that. He said, while I was standing in the kitchen, I saw Hastings on the back porch

and Nash fired a shotgun blast that struck a door jam and Hastings returned fire and hit him in the leg. That's what happened. So, Richards flies out with Gary Green. Takes off. Uh-huh. To go to the hospital. They gotta get him to the hospital.

So Green and the Nashs decided that the, because the Nashs, they were like, should we get in too? And they all decided no, you remain here to warn others away from the airstrip so nobody shows up to get their mail and gets killed. Right. So, and then Green took off with Richards in the plane. As Green lifted off, he saw Tim and Amy Nash walking toward each other on the east side

of the runway. Now on his way to Glenallen, with Richards bleeding in the back of the plane, the pilot contacted the incoming mail plane that was scheduled to land at 11 and told the pilot not to land in McCarthy. He then radio-stationed the state police in Glenallen as well. that was scheduled to land at 11 and told the pilot not to land in McCarthy. Don't do it. He then radio stationed the state police and Glen Allen as well. So he radioed them. So he made contact with all of these people and he said, you know, call for help.

So Tim and Amy Nash, you know, are at the airstrip trying to keep the mail plane. They're there. They don't want the mail plane to land too. They're going to tell them, no, no, no, stay, stay, stay. And they have a shotgun. Meanwhile, while this is all going on, they're thinking, okay, we're gonna warn people, everything's fine. Hastings, Lou, is circling through the woods at the end of the runway where Tim and Amy Nash were standing to warn people off.

On foot. Yes. Hastings had backtracked toward the airstrip along a dog sled trail. The trail snaked through dense brush behind a large mound of plowed snow across the runway from the Nash's, so they couldn't see him.

It was a giant pile of snow. Hastings crawled atop the mound of snow, waited for Green to take off in the plane, and then fired 10 rounds at the Nash's who were about 250 yards away, which is a long shot. It's a long shot, yeah. Both of them fall. He hit them both.

He hit them both. He hit them both. He's been shooting rabbits, man. That's why he's been doing it. No shit. Hastings then walked to within 50 feet of their bodies and fired another two shots, one each to make sure. Yeah dead. So then, by the way, did that. Then he continued walked up to them close range and fired one into each of their heads as well. Dead. They were dead before

that, but it was over. Yeah. Then he drags their bodies to the snow bank opposite his sniping location and put pile snow on top of them. Just hires them there. So then he can wait and no one knows that he's there. No one knows what happened except the pilot. Harley King, let's introduce into this. Harley King is this man's real name by the way, which if you look up in a newspaper archive, Harley King, it just shows a lot of people selling Harley Kings. That's a bunch of road kings. It's all exactly what it is.

He's 61 years old here. And he's lived here since 1966. He and his wife, Joe, lived on a homestead 15 miles west of McCarthy, off McCarthy Road. Prior to his retirement, he was a commercial fisherman out of Cordova and a hunting guide as well. Real outdoorsy. Oh yeah, in the 1950s he hunted wolves in a predator control program alongside another guide Jay Hammond who later became governor of Alaska.

Wow. So shooting wolves is just a springboard to power in Alaska. Right up the governmental chain if you can hit a fucking wolf in the face. just a springboard to power in Alaska. Right up the governmental chain if you can hit a fucking wolf in the face. Holy shit. So Harley King, his wife is home but Harley King is out. He is giving a ride to Donna Byram. B-Y-R-A-M. This lady's tail. Holy shit. She's 32 years old. Harley King drove a snow machine. So now we're talking about,

we have had every possible form of snow. Now the snow machine that they're talking about is the big, loud one like the guy in The Shining has. Like a car? Like a big truck that's a snow thing that goes through. Like a plow? No, it's a big truck. It's a snow thing, through a plow that no it's a a big truck Yeah, it's a snow thing not a plow like I'm trying I'm mad at myself because I don't know how to explain it like a big

It's like a tank. It's like a snow. Have you seen the shining? No What? Okay, just look over your shoulder. I just I did I just looked over my shoulder at nobody I just I just I did I just looked over my shoulder at nobody. I just Here but us it's really Have you never seen the shining number one, I know the I know the fucking References on TBS constantly for our entire childhood years. I know, I never saw it. Well, he drives a giant snowcat, they call it.

Sorry. OK, a snowcat, yeah. That's kind of what it is. It's the thing that just got Jeremy Renner's leg. Yeah, it's like a fucking snow tank, essentially. Yeah, yeah, I know what those are. For deep, deep snow. Yeah, that's what he fucking snow tank, essentially. Yeah, I know what those are. For deep, deep snow. Yeah, that's what he's got, basically.

Okay. So he drove this snow machine 20 miles from Long Lake Tuesday morning to deliver Donna Byrom, who was planning to fly out with the mail. He's just given a ride to Donna. So, wow, Donna is riding on, she's got a snow, like a snowmobile, being towed behind Harley.

Like he's towing her in, because I don't know if it's too deep for the snowmobile in spots or some shit. So Donna Byram sees Lou Hastings walking over the snowbank on the west side of the airstrip, then saw blood in the snow on the east side. She wondered who's butchering animals on the runway. That's weird.

A weird place for it. That's crazy. That's your first thought. There's a herd animal out here. Someone's quartering up a moose right now. We gotta get in there and see what's going on. There's been one gifted. We got three quarters left.

Let's go and score some of this. So as they drew closer to the Nash's bodies, they started seeing the bodies here. Byram, who's standing on a sled that trailed the snow machine, was trying to yell to Harley but couldn't hear. He couldn't hear her over the fucking snow. Those are loud as shit. So as this is going, Hastings starts firing at them as they're coming in. Oh my god.

Yeah, he's still there. One bullet hits Donna in the upper right arm and Harley King guns the snow machine as it's being fucking rain bullets upon it. I mean, this guy is firing at the snow machine, he is fucking gunning it. He tries to get away, but he keeps glancing over his shoulder here. As he's glancing over his shoulder, he's basically looking back the whole time, he runs into a snow bank and he's thrown off of the snow machine, thrown out of it and breaks his leg. So now he's in the snow, totally prone with a broken leg and can't do shit.

61 year old man with a broken leg and can't do shit. 61 year old man with a broken leg. Donna Byrum runs up and tries to try to get him back onto the snow machine here, the snow cat, and they can see Hastings approaching as this is going on. He's walking toward them, like just in a pace, not even running. Walking calmly with a gun. Yeah, this is disturbing. So she's like frozen going holy shit he's coming he's coming we got to get out of here we got to get out of here.

Carly King told her I can't move save yourself. Get out of here. He said now look both of us don't need to die. Get out of here. Oh my god. That's a fucking man right there. No shit. He's out of here. Oh my god. That's a fucking man right there. No shit. He's, both of us don't need to die. I'd be like fucking try harder drag me. You got two legs man. Jesus Christ don't you fucking lift logs or chop wood if you live in the middle of fucking nowhere. How do you not, are you able to drag me you fucking loser? Come on. Jesus Christ. Those buns of steel videos did nothing for you. She's been winged too. He used to be like, ah, this is one leg. I'll be alright. I'll hop my ass out of here. So he said, no, go! Get the fuck out of here. So she ran away. She had no choice. She was

about to get killed. So she ran away toward the Hegeland's house. As she entered the Spruce Woods, she heard a shot. Yeah. As she entered the spruce woods, she heard a shot. Hastings walked up, Lou walked up real slow, really deliberately, walked up point blank range, shot Harley King in the head as he laid there in the snow. To be fair though, that's kind of how you expect a Harley King to go out. That's... If your name's Harley King... It's either that or jumping 13 school buses. Yeah, doing an evil Knievel stunt or some shit. Yeah. I tried to jump the Snake River and

it didn't work out. On a motorcycle that had bald tires, it wasn't going to make it, but I did it anyway. So Byrom got to the Heglans and she noticed that the door had been kicked in. So she didn't know what to do. She's like, oh shit, he could be in here. So she hid outside. The Hegelans had a greenhouse. She went outside to the back of the greenhouse and just basically hunkered down. Just sat there and waited to either be killed

or be saved, one of the two. She's gripping her arm. She's been shot, for Christ's sake. She said all she could hear was, lose boot steps on the porch and the wind. That's it. Just boom, boom, boom. Then, holy shit, this is pretty fucking interesting too, what he says here.

While he's doing this, he's telling them, he's saying quote, one dead, one not dead. He keeps saying that over and over. One dead, one not dead. In other words over and over one dead one not dead in other words I'm gonna kill you motherfucker find you I'm gonna find you that's this is terrifying Yeah, you can see the movie you can see her like looking through boards and seeing him with the gun in his footsteps No one dead one not dead. Yeah seeing the rubber sole of those work boots Yeah, as she's like like Bruce Willis and fucking die hard basically, like with an injury like laying there fucking waiting to be saved. Yeah, so she's doing that and that's all she could

hear. He then eventually just gave up on her. Really? And sped off on the snowmobile of the Nash's. So he flees across a frozen river and out of the west, the road west out of town. It's an old railroad that was torn up after the copper mine closed. Remember they shut that down. Hastings thought the police would be responding in a fixed wing aircraft. That's why he did this. This is his escape plan. He's like, they're not going to be able to see me. Instead though, he said, once I get away from the aircraft,

I'll be safe. But instead, they release helicopters to go after him. Oh. Which is completely different. They can go low, they can fucking search around. It's a very different thing. Very mobile things. Yes.

And they don't have to swoop, they can kind of slow. Oh yeah. They can hover. They can hover right over you. Yeah, they can just say, hey asshole, what the fuck? I'm gonna land on you, you dickhead. Yeah, we know who you are and where you are. Come out with your hands up.

They do that shit all the time. So they said that they're gonna look for Hastings here because they've heard all about it now. And they said that also they found out that the lodge has been burned to the ground. So they asked, there's a police officer that says, all I know is that it got burned to the ground Tuesday. I think there's an assumption

that it's related to the killings, and that's about as far as I can go at the moment. You think? There's never any other crime. Now today it's a crime spree from everywhere. That'd be a crazy coincidence if it just caught on fire on the day that there's a massacre. There's fucking 20 people here for Christ's sake. So no one was living there, no one was hurt inught on fire on the day that there's a massacre. There's fucking 20 people here, for Christ's sake.

So no one was living there, no one was hurt in the fire, by the way, because it was winter time. They then spot Hastings. From the air. From the air. They're coming in from Glen Allen, shortly before 2 p.m. So this has been almost a six hour

Harrowing day. Massacre this guy's been putting on as They're over him. He got off the snowmobile and waved Yeah, this is fucking great. He was armed with a rifle. They said they landed he's armed with a rifle He didn't resist at all. He was waving and they said what's your name? He said Chris Richards Okay, Chris Richards. Okay. Chris Richards. And they said, what's going on? And he said, there's this guy, Lou Hastings.

He went berserk and shot up McCarthy. What the fuck? Yeah. There's this great, gotta get him. He's somewhere. Go get him. That's what he's saying. The troopers though, they're here because Richards landed and told them about this.

They know who he is. So like, well, we know the guy, it's Chris Richards and it ain't you. And yeah. And also the description of him is very specific. He's a big guy with a crazy beard, red hair, bald, his big, he's a really specific description, this guy. So it's not like he's blending in. They're like, they've described him to a T. So they do that. They arrest Hastings here. He had a.223 caliber rifle and two 30 round clips of ammo on the snow machine with him. They then flew to McCarthy to search for survivors with him in the helicopter, by the the way they're searching and they said Hastings stated words to the effect of okay you got your man it's me we know

yeah we get it dipshit yeah we weren't we were not believing you at all so outside the greenhouse the police finally found Donna Byron Byron she's still there she's been there live yeah freezing for a long fucking time bleeding and freezing It's probably the best thing for was that the weather was what it was probably slowed her blood circulation I'm a big bleed to death slows the bleeding down. It helps a lot plus it's pretty freezing over for Christ's sake She had to get into the helicopter with Hayes things now to fly Yes, she had to oh My god, no choice unless you here's the deal with Hastings to fly. Yes, she had to. No choice.

Oh my God. No choice, unless you, here's the deal. We can leave you here and come back and swoop you later, or you can come to the hospital and we'll protect, we'll sit a cop between you two, how's that? We'll make it, if I can share a seat. Talk about an awkward conversation. We've never had a victim have to share the same space

with the murderer on a ride. Just holding your arms, staring at the whole, you son of a bitch. You fucking asshole. So she did that. Now, one of the people who knew him about his detective book said, he read a lot of detective books. The detectives are referred to as goons. I'm sure he figured they wouldn't be able to track him down." And they said if he had killed Chris Richards, he would have been able to get everyone in town and then head for Anchorage to work on his list.

Yeah, Chris is a hero. He's the one guy that stopped all this, they said, because he got out. They said they found a firearm silencer among his belongings as well as a computer printout of 200 persons in Anchorage, Alaska. He was going to try to kill 200 people? Well he had more plans than that as we'll talk about here. What? He had a gr- this is just the beginning of a grand plan. This was just to kill all these people to be able to get the plane to get out of town. That's all the reason he killed these people was to get the plane. He thought he was going to shut down the pipeline.

Check it out. Okay. Holy shit. So the police come back, they found the bodies of the head, the Heglans and Maxine Edwards. All three of them. Bonnie was lucky she took off early, man. They are all stacked on a bed in a bedroom in the back of the house, stacked up quote like cordwood, according the trooper he stacked the fucking bodies oh That is disturbing They spent found several spent cartridges in the kitchen and in the back porch areas a bloody Fur-covered silencer sat on the nightstand next to the bodies he left him he left that one so he had another silencer by the way He said there was a lot of that one of the cops said there was a lot of shooting that went on inside that house

There were a lot of bullets sprayed around it was a massacre He came in just massacring these people shooting them over and over and over again Harley King Was left in the snow until the troopers were able to load his in the snow until the troopers were able to load his frozen solid body onto the plane the next day. He sat out overnight in negative 50 degree temperatures, freezing solid. What else are you going to do with him? They had nothing else they could do. So they were like, well, he's cold here at least. So that's how Harley went out. That's really sad, man. Wow. The one guy said here, this is the one of the pilots, while gazing down

at Harley King's body which lay face down on the snowy ice strip under an orange body bag, a pilot shook his head sadly and said quote, that guy Hastings must have been had a warped mind. He must have read some bad books. Huh? That's what you get out of this? He must have read some bad books. Goddamn Fahrenheit 451's a nightmare, James. Holy shit. It's a massacre book. He's got yak scratch fever is the problem. I think that's just as likely.

Yeah, you read Animal Farm and then you do this shit. Yes, you do this shit. That's it. Fucking Orwell. Fucking yak scratch fever comes in and you're screwed. So Chris Richard said, I kept wondering why would you put a silencer on to kill the only other person in a ghost town? He was like, I didn't understand why he was shooting at me with a silencer. There's nobody around but your cabin.

That's the only other people here. You could have shot rounds as long as you wanted. No one would have heard you. Lloyd Green is very upset because six of his friends and neighbors are dead. He killed six people six six out of 22 at the time Unbelievable, it's almost a third of the whole fucking town. He killed That's goddamn more than a quarter of the town. He killed He heard about it the murders over his portable radio

And he says it wasn't necessarily a surprise, really. Come on, Loy. I'm never surprised, Loy, over here. I expect this every day. I always expect it. However, Hastings wasn't the one that I thought it probably was. I expected it, but not from him. He said nobody even thought he had a rifle in his house, he said.

Really? Because that's not what he was about. So they didn't even thought he had a rifle in his house, he said. Really? Because that's not what he was about. So they didn't even know he was armed at all. I guess one guy, Jim Miller, he left McCarthy a few weeks before the murders and he first heard about the murders on the radio too when he was driving to work. He said, it was, I kind of figured it might've happened. I don't know. If anybody was going to do it, I figured it figured it might have happened. I don't know. If anybody was gonna do it,

I figured it might have been Hastings, being a loner anyways. Now this guy thinks it was. This guy think. He said, but at first it was kind of a shock. I suspected three or four different people, but, and then he just trailed off. So Bonnie Morris.

He's in the top five out of 22. And I don't think Maxine's gonna go on a fucking spree. Probably not Amy Nash going on a spree. I don't see Donna going on a spree. Let's whittle this down a little more, guys. I got a feeling the top 15 are all men. They're all guys. I could probably put them in rank order of who you think would do it.

So Bonnie Morris, the one who was lucky as shit, she said she listened for the mail plane until midday when she heard on the Glen Allen KACM radio show on their midday Caribou clatters section. Caribou clatters. That's the news that's going on. They just announced that it wouldn't be coming that day. They announced that the mail plane's not coming to MacArthur. In case you're in MacArthur, the mail plane's not coming. Anyway, here's the Bee Gees. What the fuck?

Must have been posts of the guy taking off and telling them back there, don't come. So they said, well, let's tell radio clatters, carib radio clatters. Yeah caribou clatters So Bonnie went into the woods with her friend Malcolm to cut logs and later just cutting them ripping just ripping logs out shit shit massive luck Cutting logs babe Then she recalled hearing a few gunshots, but gunshots aren't unusual here in the woods. No. It happens all the time. It was only that evening they turned on the local radio news they learned of the killings, which are a half a mile from her cabin. So she heard the gunshots that were going on. Bonnie said, we thought they make flubs sometimes on the

radio, so we switched to the Anchorage station. Six people. That was just about everyone we could think of. About that time the helicopter came Circling overhead shining its beam down into the woods. We were huddled under the bed Finally the troopers found us we were the only light the only surviving couple in town Everybody else had one member of them killed. She said that they flubbed and Accidentally heard six people are dead in her town. That's a common mistake the radio makes. They said six people are dead here.

I switched to anchors. Let's see if they're telling the truth. Bullshit, right? It's one of the more of the world's things, ain't it? You're not going to get me on a Tuesday. Bonnie said, these people lying around here were not your average people. She said these are people who inspired the rest of us when we came here to build a sane and healthy life.

Nobody came in here and wiped out the pillars of one of the few self-sufficient communities in Alaska. A nobody. Another person, here's some other people here, other residents, one person said it would have never crossed anyone's mind that this kind of thing could happen here. This is Rick Kenyon. He said, I'm sure he didn't even know some of these people, meaning Lou didn't know these people. He said, I never saw anything that would have brought this, brought this on. He said he was decent, a decent enough human being, meaning Hastings. Seemed fine to me.

Now Chris here, later on from, this is a much later interview, he gives some perspective. He says, quote, this ain't Chicago. Really. Okay, calm down. No shit. He said, it's not New York, we're not anonymous. Even the neighbors I don't necessarily

get along with all the time, they're precious to me. This guy doesn't like many people. There's 22 people and he's like, I don't like most of them. I'll be honest with you. They're still precious. He said here it was a major devastating impact. If somebody killed 50% of New York or Chicago, Christ, they declare nuclear war over that. Yeah, because that would be 4 million people. That's why. Christ, they declare nuclear.

If 4 million people were murdered, we should probably look into that. Yeah, there's six They started a whole world war about it Wow Kind of apples and oranges chief. What do you think? Holy shit? He said I mean it would mean the end of the world and the equivalent happened here It wiped out our elders. Well most of them it wiped out half half the community, a community that now finds itself changing. So yeah, he said one guy here, Al Gagnon, he's gagging on something. You betcha. He is the owner of what will be a pizza place that will open up later here. And he says he spent 33 years in McCarthy. And this is one of the few remaining towns here. One of the few, he is one of the few remaining towns here.

One of the few, he's one of the few remaining town elders from 83. He said, I'm out here at the end of the trail because I'm an outlaw. He owns a pizza place. Jim Miller says, Al talks about everything, water, sewer, putting in electricity, because that's what Al wants,

because he's an outlaw, so he wants sewer. What outlaws want? A clean and efficient sewage system. That's what I want. Outlaws got to charge their phone. Miller says Al's always got 40 scams going at once. He says his latest idea is to drill for commercial water on his property in Kennecott. He plans to offer running water and a septic system to Kennecott. He plans to offer running water and a septic system to Kennecott's growing number of residents and businesses, including Richard's home and a site where Miller hopes to move his pizza place. Real outlaw drilling wells.

Real drilling wells to get people sewage. Miller and Gagnon haggle over what Gagnon will charge for the service. Miller half-jokingly threatens to throw an outhouse party. Miller's and Gagnon's properties abut. One corner of Miller's land falls within 200 foot radius of Gagnon's proposed well. He said legally you can't drill a well within 200 feet of an established outhouse. That's the joke. He said if Gagnon's price remains unreasonable, Miller will dig an outhouse and invite people over to establish it. Y'all come shit in my yard, would you? Establish it as in quotes. That's great. Miller and Agnon will amicably work out their differences. They always have. They say that Gagnon points

to McCarthy's natural boundaries and its weather as a natural means of security. They said the river in the summertime keeps you honest. Okay, I know what that means. The snow in the wintertime keeps you honest because you can be tracked. Oh, because in the snow everybody knows your boots. This is a country where there's no ifs or maybes. It's yes or no. There's no 911 and mom isn't here and tears don't do any good. You're on your own. By the way, let me dig you in that septic system here.

Yeah, this doesn't, that's why we love it. You die out here in a snow mound with yaks biting at your nutsack and that's how we like it. Nobody knows your name. Yeah, this is the opposite of cheers. You can just die and return to the earth and nobody knows. He said and then Richard said, no, we don't call 911, we call our neighbors.

Anybody starts shooting around here, we're going to take out the people we don't know first. Gee, don't be we don't know first. Gee don't be don't vacation here. He said we'll figure out what your problem is later. We will shoot first and ask questions later of people we don't know even though the only guy who massacred everybody was a guy who fucking lived here. No one from the outside has done anything. And perhaps we'll get the right guy. If you came in from the outside, you'd be terrified of these people.

Yeah. Even if you were a serial killer, you'd be like, these people are fucking frightening. They'll take your life with a whisper, James. With a fucking suppressor? Come on. Just imagine there's Wolverines around here. I'm getting out of here. You'll take my life and not even disturb a Wolverine family.

Fucking, hey. So Hastings is charged with six counts of first degree murder, one count of attempted murder in the first degree, and one count of first degree assault. So that's what he's got. Now, the investigation, they search everywhere in his house and they find, quote, large quantity of evidence collected from the home, which is mainly the shells that match the ones that the victims were shot with and all that kind of thing.

They had a team of seven state troopers and assistant district attorneys and an assistant district attorney were looking over everything and getting in there. This, by the way, as you might imagine, is all the town talks about after this. I mean, most of them. So they said the survivors devoted nearly every conversation

to the murders and at least indirectly about the murders. They said for weeks, people were basically sleepwalking. The blood stains were still soaked in the snow. You could see them. And they said meetings were held. They considered options of what to do. Do we keep telling everybody nobody can come in here? And one at one of these meetings, one person said, we can't trust anybody that comes in here anymore.

And another said, wait a minute, if we do that in a larger sense, lose the winner. Because that's what he wanted was for people to fuck off out of here. And this is so we're going to give him what he wants. Lloyd Green said, if we don't trust anybody, if everyone who comes in is a suspect, then we're putting out negative energy and we're creating a suspicious atmosphere. Yeah, this town is creepy. Everyone's staring at me and pointing guns at me

when I came to look at a fucking Wolverine. This is crazy. So he said that we can't expect to have people come here. Better if we open our arms now to everybody, but maybe have a little caution. Let's not look weirder than we already look, is what it is. We look weird to begin with, then somebody shoots,

a resident shoots most of the town, now we look super weird. And now we wanna shoot strangers. Yeah, now we're in some Twilight Zone shit here. So the prosecutor in a later interview describes Lou Hastings as a very bright guy a nerdy Academic whose wig is probably on a little too tight No, he's a bald guy no wig But he then says there are a lot of parallels to this guy and Ted Kaczynski

Later on this is after Ted Kaczynski. Later on, this is after the Ted Kaczynski thing. He said, if you really distill it down, Mr. Hastings thought he was going to be the savior of the Alaska wilderness. He said, if he had been paying attention, he would have seen the irony in killing a town where the residents know each other by their boot tracks, a town that existed without electricity, running water or telephones to protest what he perceived to be over-industrialization. There's no industrialization here. There's not even electricity here.

He said, the prosecutor said, in the name of Alaska, he destroyed part of Alaska and the Alaskan life. So, yes. So this was, when was, Kaczynski, wasn't that in the late 80s? That was in the 90s. They caught him in the 90s there. Yeah.ki? Wasn't that in the late 80s? That was not, 90s. They caught him in the 90s there. Yeah.

He's thinking he started in the late 80s and then they caught him in the 90s. So I remember it was like late 90s when they had his, they had that sketch was the joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is well before that. That was a later interview they said. They said, the irony is that he comes

from an overpopulated California, moves to the midst of such beauty, and then in order to protect the beauty, single-handedly wipes out a whole town. Yeah, because he's been to Anchorage and he's seen what the Industrial Revolution does to ... He doesn't like it. And he doesn't want that happening here. But it's not happening here.

It's not happening here. As evidence is, by the 30 years, 40 years later, it's still the same. We would have to have 7 billion people in America, just in America for people to have start moving into this area. We're out of space completely. Fucking Nebraska's all full. We took the corn down. Montana's fucking tit to tit.

There's people, uh, rim to rim at the canyon. It's full. It's full of people. They're stacked on top of each other miles high rim to rim at the canyon. It's full. It's full of people. They're stacked on top of each other, miles high. Rim to rim. So there's a bail hearing. The prosecutor wants to raise his bail to a million dollars. They say that he's a relative newcomer to the state. He's unemployed. He could flee if he's freed on bail. They also said that he needs to go in under a psychiatric evaluation here. But the judge decides to continue the bail at $300,000. That's his

bail here, which seems low for killing six people, I feel like. Yeah. A little bit. Woodcoburg again? That's what I'm saying. It's higher than that, isn't it? It seems like a, wow, six people? That's a lot of people.

That's a lot of people. That's a slaughter. That's what I'm saying. It's higher than that, isn't it? It seems like a, wow, six people? That's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. That's a slaughter. That's a massacre. That's a mass shit killing. That's crazy. It's a mass shooting, yes. So they said they're concerned also during this court hearing.

They were concerned about security because they thought one of these remaining 18 people or whatever would fucking try to kill him because they were pissed off, obviously. So it prompted them to move up the time of the hearing a trooper dispatcher had said earlier that Anchorage switchboard had been flooded with telephone calls from friends and relatives of McCarthy residents and They heard some threats against Hastings basically like hey better watch out and all this type of shit So they took a bunch of security precautions and nobody showed up. Nobody cared out and all this type of shit. So they took a bunch of security precautions and nobody showed up. Nobody cared. Nobody gets some fuck. No. So he's trying to say that they conducted an illegal search of his shit. There's no warrant, no nothing. And the judge rules

that the troopers who apprehended him would have been negligent not to have inspected his duffel bag and wallet, especially because he was lying about his identity when they knew it. They knew he was lying. They identity. And they knew it. They knew he was lying. They knew that he wasn't Chris Richards and they knew that he was the shooter. So they said that, you know, that's how it works. So the search was fair, they said.

Also denied by the judge. By the way, this judge hates him. The judge's name is Moody, Judge Ralph Moody. He hates this guy. Every ruling, no matter how reasonable of a request, it is anti-Hastings. Fuck, he hates him. It's wild. So the judge also denied a defense lawyer's motion to rule on the constitutionality of

an amended state law regarding insanity defenses. This lawyer was supposed to have told the court prior to yesterday's hearings whether he intends to plead Hastings was not guilty at the time of the murders because he was insane here. Now the public defender here told the court that he couldn't make such a filing because he feels the new law, because they just changed the law, we'll get into that, is unconstitutional. So he's like, I can't work within it. He's previously said the current statute allows defendants to be convicted even if they didn't understand at the time of the crime what they were

doing. This is the new insanity law that came later. Remember, if you're pre like 1980, if you were insane they'd look at you know whether you were crazy. Yeah. He's insane so we called him insane. Yeah. Now it's you don't only have to be insane, they could say you are the craziest person in the world, but he knew where he was and what planet he was on when he killed somebody. So now that's sane now, which is, that's crazy. So they said that he, yeah, they said that Moody,

the judge, said until the defense attorney submits his intention to enter an insanity plea, there's nothing before the court and no ruling that the new law would be forthcoming on the new law that would be forthcoming I can't rule on shit unless you submit something So the state legislature amended the law to give juries new options in dealing with insanity Please by adding a category of guilty, but mentally ill basically don't give a fuck How crazy you are is that that's what that means. Guilty but rather than not and.

Exactly. Yep. So the criminals convicted under that standard are subject to regular prison sentences but are also entitled to treatment for their illnesses before being transferred to prisons. I like that better. So that would be, yeah, you get treated for your mental illness, then they put you in a prison. But at the end, you're still going to prison. You in a prison But at the end you're still going to prison still going there Yeah, you're still going to prison which the point is if someone doesn't know what the fuck they're doing because they're madly crazy They don't belong in prison. They belong in a mental institution. Yeah, you're saying

We'll fix them, but you're not fixing severely paranoid schizophrenic people. You're not fixing them But eventually they're gonna just go throw them in a prison. So that's weird. The changes were made following murders in 82 in Anchorage of four teenagers who was found innocent by reason of insanity in a previous murder. So that's what happens. People get mad that one person got away with something so they change a law that made sense for a hundred years. It happens all the time. New York reaction just to go too hard for this one case. Yeah, yeah. If we had this, then this guy wouldn't get away.

But it's gonna fuck something up later, so let's just let it. That's the problem. This guy is a little wacky. So the judge, a judge here rules no interview and no insanity plea, and we'll talk about that. He refused, basically, he doesn't wanna talk to state psychiatrist Hastings. He wants to talk to defense psychiatrist but not state psychiatrist.

So the judge granted a request to postpone the trial and try to figure this out. The trial be delayed so a psychiatrist hired by the defense has time to complete his examination. Hastings has refused three times to talk to state psychiatrist. So the defense attorney assured the judge that he would cooperate now that he's received a report from the defense psychiatrist, Dr. Joe Satin of San Francisco. The defense attorney said that he did not want to expose Hastings to the state's doctors until he was sure an insanity defense would hold up during the trial. The judge said here, the next time he refuses, the insanity defense will be stricken. There will be no insanity defense. But a really crazy person might refuse. So then you're going to, that's the, he's too crazy to be examined. So we're not going to let him plead insanity. Like I get what the court has no other choice, but it's not logically logical.

We're all people, so I guess you got to have the same rules for everybody. But all people are not all the same people. You got to have different rules that can be applicable to each situation. Yeah. Fucking wild. So the judge rescinds an order requiring the public defender's agency to pay the district attorney's office $180, the bill for one of the doctors that he refused to talk to. So he's going to plead not guilty, just has to plead not guilty. Now will he have to pay for a lawyer? Because that's a big thing.

They indicated that he owns two vehicles and more than $10,000 worth of computer software and that his wife has a $40,000 in her retirement fund. So they got $56,000. So they said he does not, this is the judge said he does not fit the pattern of being an indigent, an indigent. The judge said if this man's got assets, the state should not be paying for an attorney. said, if this man's got assets, the state should not be paying for an attorney. So that's how that works. Now, Richards, Chris Richards, as he recovers, he continues to work summers on a road construction crew here, but not the next year because he's healing from his bullet wounds and basic terror, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah, I imagine those machines make loud noises, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah, I imagine those machines make loud noises.

You know, banging and clanging. Yeah, something slams on asphalt, you might fucking flash back a smidge. A little bit. They said now he's also heavy in debt because his injuries have prevented him from working. And he says he's still bitter over the shootings. Well, when you find out what's up with him,

you'll know why he's bitter. Permanent double vision. Oh boy. I would piss me off constantly rubbing my eyes and having that not work. A plastic eye socket because it was shattered by the bullet and glaucoma are among his physical injuries. He can't see. Yeah. His friends say he is all fucked up mentally. One is a hurt and guilt he says he feels for the Nash's because they helped him. It was his idea to go to the airstrip and they both died and he got away so he feels bad. He said I don't know if I'll ever

be able to work again. I really don't. I don't feel like Chris was real into working to begin with. First sentence out of Yeah. So first sentence out of his, I don't know if I'll ever be able to work. It's not like he's like, I'm an artist and I do this thing I love or whatever. He's a road construction guy. Damn it, I won't be able to shovel gravel anymore. Darn.

Just pretend like you're building two roads, Chris. If you see two, build two. Build two. I got two guns, one for each of you. So the town wants blood here. Yeah. Town wants fucking blood. Sally Gilbert, one of the residences, said there's been a lot of soul searching since

the murders about why they happened and no one seems to know. They said until he's convicted, there will be no peace. Lloyd Green said, Lou Hastings is the very personification of evil. He has forfeited his right to a life on the planet Earth. Well, he's made his mind up. I don't think he's going to be on the jury. I doubt I think he gets to be judge. Jesus Christ.

So the survivors now, imagine what that's all about. Jesus Christ. Yeah, there's a lot of people just all fucked up here. They're, Lloyd Green said, you can't put it out of your mind. Lesson flow came here the same year I did. He said that day, I didn't come down, that day I didn't come down for the mail. He didn't come for mail day, so he would have got shot too. And Gilbert said the same thing. The woman said it was a fluke. That was the only Tuesday all winter I didn't come for my mail. Is that right? Yep. She had some other shit going on so she couldn't go

So they the Liz who owned the lodge who that burned down said she hasn't been to McCarthy Back because she said her lodge hurt was her life her dream and her reason for being She said I very much feel like a victim. That was my life savings. There was no insurance. It's just gone. There's nobody's insuring you out there. You can't get insurance in the woods.

You can't? No, they won't insure you out there. Is that right? Oh, like earthquakes and everything else, no. Force fires. So they said avalanches. There's a million things that could happen. So she said she's been seeing a doctor

for health-related problems after what happened. She said initially, all I heard was six of my friends had been murdered. When you hear that even one person you've been close to is dead, it kind of knocks the wind out of you. She said, it's not it's I'm just not able to deal with it. Like a lot of people to cry and scream and get it out of my system. Everything I had is gone. And she says, you put you can't look back. You've got to look forward. And they said they need to welcome newcomers. Richards even said, I don't see anyone down at the tram throwing rocks at strangers. The tram is the cable thing that you have to play yourself in on. Now the Nash, the Nash cabin, they have a corner seal over the door and you know Jesus yeah looks like

someone yeah well it is now yeah because the parents one of their parents said that the mortgage hold told the mortgage holders that they're gonna come down from the state come up from the states to see for themselves about it and try to understand how this could happen and then they'll probably sell the place too so they said they told him we'll make the payments till we figure out what we're doing. So Lou is about to go to trial here and he's got a, there's not a lot he can really do at a trial. No, he doesn't have a lot of defense other than I'm bat shit crazy.

That's all he can say. So he pleads no contest. Really? He's hoping for some mercy on the sentencing and he pleads no contest really he's hoping for some mercy on the sentencing if he pleads no contest Unfortunately this for him this judge hates his fucking guts, so we'll find out how that works So they said the there was about a dozen or so spectators out there No special security precautions. They had a single uniformed state trooper. It's all security They said the trial was nearly an hour late to get started. The defense attorney renewed his request to declare the insanity police

statute unconstitutional. Hastings pleads no contest to all eight crimes after his attorney failed to have the new psychiatric defense statute overturned. So although the evidence seemed to have little doubt as to his guilt, the question is why the fuck did he do it? What the hell, man? And they don't know. And he won't say? No.

He's not telling anybody. He's not saying shit. What the fuck? So, the prosecutor nibbles around the edges, they say here, but at some point he had to get into specifics and when he starts to he's objected to by the public defender and then the prosecutor drops the matter of why because they don't know. So he said, how's he going to have him speculating on this shit?

We have no idea why. So they said, through it all the balding bushy bearded computer programmers sat quietly dressed in a tan sport coat and yellow sweater. He's going with the Menendez fucking wardrobe defense. He said nothing other than yes or no in response to questions from the judge. Now such a verdict of this entitles the guilty but crazy shit, entitles a convict to psychiatric care in prison but requires them to serve their entire sentences even if they are considered cured.

That's the difference. It used to be, you're crazy, they keep you till you're not crazy anymore. Now it's like, you're crazy and we're keeping you for 75 years anyway. So that's a lot. It's changed that way. There's no serve half of your sentence or whatever the fuck. No enjoy a good time day or none of that shit. No. No. Good behavior just means you get to do your time. whatever the fuck, no enjoy a good time day or none of that shit.

No. Good behavior just means you get to do your time. Well, no, back then, I mean, if you were found pre the 80s, if you were found insane, that meant you went to a mental institution and when the mental institution deemed you sane, you were released. Wow. You were released. There was no jail involved.

It was help. Don't like that. But now it is, we'll get you sane enough to was no jail involved it was don't like that help, but now it is Will get you sane enough to stay in jail for 75 years. So there's really no Reason that basically made the law completely irrelevant and they don't care crazy not crazy There's got to be something in between that is what I'm yeah, that's all so The they said that he plead no contest and they said the post-conviction hearing will be held to determine whether he's mentally ill.

The judge says it appears to be appropriate here. Yep. Hastings answered the questions. He did everything. They asked whether he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time and he said no. The prosecutor said it was not a negotiated plea. No promises had been made at all.

He's just pleading no contest. He said in light of the deliberate cruelty and sheer enormity of the crime, the state will ask for a sentence that will approach the upper limits of what's permissible. We're gonna ask for a lot of years here basically. We're trying real hard to get all of it. No shit. He describes how, you know, Hastings was a serious environmentalist, came to Anchorage from Palo Alto to escape the quote, taint of the big city, which could be stinky. You don't want to be in the taint of the city there. That is very funny that he said that before he knew what taint meant. That's awesome, isn't it? Instead, he was depressed by what he considered to be the degradation of

Alaska caused by progress in general and oil in particular. This is the prosecutor. The Trans Atlanta, or Atlanta, I keep saying it, Trans Alaska, because it's the transit, I don't know what it is, oil pipeline. That's what I'm going for exactly. Transatlantic became a focus for the defendant, an embodiment of a particular evil. He said at that point, that's when the defense interrupted and said that matter wouldn't be pursued further. The prosecutor said his plan was to kill as many people as possible in McCarthy. And then he was going to head to Anchorage, I suppose.

So they talked about the victims ranging from their 20s to their 60s. At least one suffered a gunshot wound to the back of the head at close range. That was Harley. They also said there's been an extensive effort to clean up the bullet-riddled cabin where the bodies were found and stacked in the bedroom so that when people arriving wouldn't see the bodies. That's why he was trying to clean the blood. He was trying to get everybody gathering in the house and then it's fish in a barrel,

is what he was trying to do. Wow. That's amazing. So that's what they're going to do. Wow. That's amazing. So that's what they're going to do. July 30th, 1984. So he's guilty, pleads no contest, but now we're going to find out about mental shit. Here are some editorials here. This is a something someone sent this to the Anchorage Daily, whatever the fuck newspaper. Why allow why allow killer a sanity hearing is the title of this. Well, yeah, I want to thank Superior Court judge Ralph Moody for sharing with the public the letters from the Lewis Hastings family. I

Understand that their shock and their pain must be they must be experiencing and I can also understand them fighting for Lewis Hastings life, but we must not forget that this man shot down and killed six people. A shy, non-violent person does not kill six people. He might have been a good kind man at one time, but he is not a good kind man now and he is a criminal. I know that's hard for a family to accept, but often the family is the last to see how a family member really is. My con- Ted Bundy's mom still says he's innocent while he was being executed. My conflict with this issue is why is there going to be a sanity hearing? Because we got to know.

We have laws. That's why there are many people in our country who have had hard childhoods filled with emotional and physical abuse, but they don't kill people. Okay, then say he's fine and send him to prison. What the fuck are we talking about? That's all we're doing is evaluating. We've all been given a base from which we develop our lives. We're responsible for the direction in which we go. If Lewis Hastings had a hard childhood, he had therapy available to him to work through those issues.

The article mentions counseling as a teenager. How about as an adult? Lewis Hastings made choices in his life that got him where he is today. By making certain choices, he's given up other choices, like his privacy. He took away the lives of six people. He took more than their privacy,

and yet he's reluctant to give up his own. Mr. Hastings doesn't want his mental health debated in public. We'll talk about this because he's saying, can we have closed door hearings on the mental health? He said they go on to say how can one be cured in quotes of killing six people, especially if he lost his sanity just on that day. How much of this sanity hearing, how much is this sanity hearing going to cost the people of Alaska after the hours of attention from psychiatrists, attorneys, court costs, etc. For what? Six people are still dead. I don't know, for justice. This is America. That's why. We don't just

take you out behind the courtroom and shoot you in the head. Because people used to raid the courthouse with bags on their heads and take the person and go do horrible things. We can't do that. We're civilized society, you fuck. We're trying to be civilized here. We're living in a society. Lewis Hastings is still guilty, and he's still going to be locked up for the rest of his life. Then what the fuck do you care then?

That's what I mean. Why are you so mad? November 29th, 1984, a letter to the editor again, murderers don't deserve rights, is the title of this one. Okay. Last week I read about Mr. Clemens, who while serving time for manslaughter was not only allowed to enter the land lottery, but was then let out of jail to stake his land.

This week I read about mass murderer Lewis Hastings who was allowed to receive his Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend Check. Okay Permanent Fund because they do so much oil shit there and basically to make up for the fact that they're destroying all this shit, that they're giving everyone a check. And it's somewhere now between a thousand and two thousand dollars per person per year. That's about what it is. So it's not a ton of money, but it's something. He gets some.

He gets some. So they said, what rights do prisoners have to participate in state functions while in prison? Do not officials in this state realize these two men have taken the lives of innocent people? As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Hastings' check and any other convicted murderer's check should be given to the families of their victims. Mr. Clemens should lose his land. He gave up his right to when he committed manslaughter. After all, the victims of these two men and men like them will never again receive a dividend check or be able to enter the state land lottery. I ask where is the justice in this?" And

again another person, mass murder forfeited his rights. He said he basically he recently said talking about Hastings recently filed suit in Superior Court over his possible transfer to federal prison. He states the system violates his rights. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he forfeit his rights when he pulled the trigger on six innocent people? No, that's when your rights are activated.

When you're in the back of a police car, that's where the rights are activated. They read them right to you. Me and you right now, we don't need any rights. No. We're sitting here, I'm good. No one's asking me shit, telling me shit. I don't need rights at all. I'm in my house, I'm fine. But that's when need any rights. No, we're sitting here. I'm good. No one's asking me shit, telling me shit. I don't need rights at all.

I'm in my house. I'm fine. But that's when you need rights. How dare him even to file the suit in the first place, let alone let the court entertain it. He's supposed to be properly chastened and just want to go fucking live in a hole and die. So they said, count your blessings, Mr. Hastings, that you didn't

commit these atrocities in the states of Texas, Florida or Georgia, to name a few. If that had been the case, you wouldn't have to worry about the system violating your rights. No, you'd be in 30 years of fucking appeals that would cost even more that you'd bitch about then. That's what you do. Why can't we just convict him and then turn his chair in the court into an electric chair? Why can't we just convict him and then turn his chair in the court into an electric chair? Why can't... Why can't we just use an ejection button and just shoot him out of the room? Right through the ceiling. Just make the defendant's chair as an electric chair.

And if you're found guilty, they throw the switch right there. That's what they want. The chair turns into a rocket and then we shoot him to the moon. There you go. Be comforted in knowing Alaska doesn't take advantage of capital punishment. Instead, you will be housed, fed, and pampered for the rest of your life at the expense

of the same type of law-abiding citizens you so viciously victimized. So the judge releases letters. The prosecutor and the defense attorney both said, please don't release these letters to the public. And he said, oh, I'll release them. Oh, they're going out. Oh, they're going out. Oh, they're going out.

He said, if I'm on the plane. This is a moody set. If people write me letters, they better expect them to be published. Is that right? Yes. So this is to, because his family, Hastings family, was writing letters of support.

So he published them so people would shame them for doing that. That's essentially what he did. He hates his guts. They said the exchange came Friday at a hearing people would shame them for doing that. That's essentially what he did. He hates his guts. They said the exchange came Friday at a hearing to determine whether Hastings will have a chance to try to prove he's mentally ill. Such a finding would enable him to spend at least the first part of his prison sentence

in a mental hospital. Okay, so his mother and one of his sisters wrote Moody supporting Hastings claim that he must have been insane at the time. They said he was a shy, gentle person who never showed any violent tendencies. Public Defender said questioned Moody's decision to release the letters. District Attorney echoed those concerns. He said the stories could have a disturbing effect on survivors closely following the case.

And also, the prosecutor suggested media access to such materials. Please be limited. They're not, by the way. But Moody said the letters were sent directly to him by certified mail and not part of the classified pre-sentencing information. These are mine now, I'm keeping them. These are addressed to me, man.

He said, if I make these letters available to you, how can I not make them available to the public? I don't know, because you're the lawyer's concern in this case and I don't have shit to do with it. Maybe that's why. He said that he'd been following that policy for 22 years as a judge. That's all there is to it. So they tell he's being evaluated. Why did he do this? Did he give it? Did he give any reason? Yeah, he's got a reason. He's got a reason. Apparently, after he killed everyone in town, he planned to sabotage the pipeline, okay.

The whole thing started with Chris Richards, but it all unraveled from the very first guy because he didn't die. And that's what fucked the whole thing up. He said it's supposed to start, he's supposed to kill Richards, then when the weekly mail plane landed, Hastings would kill anyone who showed up at the Hegelands house,

most of the residents. With all of them eliminated, he would hijack the mail plane, kill the pilot of course, hijack the mail plane, I guess he can fly now too. He then planned to land the plane near the pipeline at a pump station about 80 miles west of McCarthy and rig the plane to take off again with no one at the controls. How the fuck does that work? How are you gonna do that? I don't know. Don't you gotta do flaps and shit? At that point he would commandeer a fuel truck and ram the pipeline while shooting at it. This sounds like if an eight-year-old, if you asked an eight-year-old how do you destroy an oil pipeline this is what they would come up with. I don't

know you like drive a big truck at it while you shoot at it and stuff. You just got to get a snow plow and hit it. Yes, now he theorized the cold weather would, because you're an environmentalist but you want oil to spill all over everywhere. He said the winter weather would congeal the oil in the broken pipeline thus minimizing environmentally damaging spillage while disrupting the oil flow He said so there was more that way he thinks it just it just blows and oozes Yeah, it'll just slow it dude. It is under so much pressure man high pressure. No, it's not up

It's not your fucking bathroom. It's not a sewer line It's not your fucking bathroom sink. It's not a sewer line. No. It's not oozing. Jesus Christ. He doesn't even understand what it is. How's he so pissed? It's ridiculous.

The fuel truck in his mind would burst into flames, charring his body beyond recognition because he's going to kill himself in this. He thought of that, he thought that would be good because the entire town would be dead and his body would be unrecognizable so he could destroy the pipeline and commit suicide without revealing to his family that he had been a murderer that committed suicide. They would think that he died in the town. They thought he died in the town. That's why he burned the fun thing down because he wanted to, that was part of the plan. Oh boy. So and that would be at the hands of an unknown killer and everybody would feel bad for everybody, but the pipeline would be fucked up.

This is the dumbest computer scientist I've ever heard of. He's a dipshit, complete dipshit. So yes, he wants his competency hearing to be held in private. The judge on the other hand, Moody here, he rejected arguments by Hastings' attorney that the man who killed all these people has any rights to privacy. Court TV will be airing this right after OJ coverage tonight. How can a defendant say his interest is greater than the public's in a case like this? Also countering the defense motions was the prosecutor who said any right of privacy has

disappeared March 1st when he committed those killings. The legal issues involved in this deal caused the defense attorney to ask for a closed door session and proved frustrating to people. People are waiting for this and it's taking a long time and they want instant justice. He says to the layperson, all the victims know is their parents or grandchildren are gone. That's what the prosecutor says. Sentencing comes around. Before the hearing, Hastings smiled and laughed with his defense attorney. He was seen doing that. One McCarthy resident said, I never saw him smile the whole time he was in McCarthy. Is that right? Yep. He said if Moody finds him, the judge is up.

This is up to the judge now. If he finds him guilty but mentally ill, he'd remain in a mental hospital until he's considered cured and he would serve the remainder of his sentence in prison. Now the shrinks come in here. Psychiatrists come in and they say he hatched a bizarre suicide scheme to blow up a pipeline in an effort to make his death meaningful and spare his family the pain of knowing what he'd done. They diagnosed him with having a long-standing personality disorder which made him incapable

of appreciating the wrongfulness of his conduct. One guy said he welcomed the solitude. It became a place where he could think about things. He began to brood in a morbid way about various things. He said his crimes were planned as somehow a protest statement on the ongoing development and increasing number of people coming into the state. That's what the prosecution's guy said. He said he began to develop the idea that he would like to make his suicide meaningful in some way He said one thing he liked about Alaska was the lack of crowds and he didn't like that

The pipeline was causing more people to come here He said that one of the shrinks said that in developing his scheme He demonstrated the dichotomy that characterizes his personality he said he felt a separation between the way his thinking went on and the way his feelings went on. A psychiatrist for the defense also diagnosed him as having a major depression episode with psychotic features at the time of the slaying and described him as having a personality disorder common to, quote, many people walking the streets today who do not break the law. Okay, the state psychiatrist here, he says when I asked him how it would have affected him if people, his victims got down and begged,

he said he made sure that didn't happen. He hurried up and got it over with. Yeah. So he didn't know how he would react to that is why he doesn't know if maybe he would have stopped and said, oh shit, I'm sorry, because if you're not a killer like that, someone begging for their life is probably, you don't do this all the time. If you're not a cold piece of shit, you might fucking have some emotion. If you're Ted Bundy, that makes your dick hard.

If you're a normal person, you might go, oh, this isn't good, this kind of ruins the whole thing for me. Yeah, I thought they were gonna be like, fuck you, you asshole, and I was like, bang, bang, bang. And it would feel great. So however, Hastings does suffer from an inflated opinion of himself, remember that, from work, and is susceptible to grandiose schemes

with little chance of success, which is most people living in this area, I would think. This is a grandiose scheme. To move here is fucking crazy. It's a great thing. You're going to wakeose scheme to move here. It's fucking crazy. You're going to wake up tomorrow and survive this. It's crazy. Yeah, that's what I mean. They also said that the psychiatrist doubted Lew's claim that his plan was to end his own life in a tanker truck explosion. Hastings reportedly planned, obviously, the final stage of the crime as being that. Referring to a list,

Hastings had been carrying at the time of his capture, which included government officials, judges, police, and civic leaders. The psychiatrist said, it seems fairly unusual that a person who planned to be dead in a few days would go through the trouble of making out this sort of list. Right. True. The list, which included anchorage area names, was not admitted to the public court record and will be sealed in appeals as well.

No explanation was offered. I don't want to give anybody ideas. Hey, that guy is an asshole. He's right. He is a jerk. I don't know. He had a pretty good list going. No explanation was offered in court as to why Hastings compiled his computer printout

list. Some courtroom discussion had it referred to as a hit list. He had it on that old printer paper. He had to like pull the sides off of it. That's how he had it printed. A pink, yellow and a white one. He folded it back and forth three times and then fucking slowly took the preparations off.

Yeah. That is hilarious. Wow. I worked for a place in 2003 that still used a printer like that, by the way. Really? Yeah. It was fucking crazy. I was like, what are you people doing? A printer's $92. Get a fucking decent printer in here.

Holy shit. That thing just keeps going. It did. It's so loud. It took forever to be like, Jesus. Any documents you gave to people were like, when was this printed? 1986? What's happening right now?

How long have you guys been looking for me? Jesus. So Lou's family pleads for him. Yeah. Pleads for him. His sister and mother wrote to the judge as we know and then he released it to the public. This is his mother, Maude Marie Gunn is her name. Maude. Maude Gunn. That's a great name. Yeah. She said with all my heart, I believe Lewis's sanity completely left him on that horrible day. He said that he's never demonstrated any threatening or violent tendencies toward anyone. He's even he could be trusted. He held top secret security clearance during a stint in the air force. She said, I knew Lou to be a good, kind man, not a criminal. I think it's evident that he's a good, good boy, that he could.

I think it is evident that he could have committed these crimes. He could never have committed these crimes had he been sane at the time. His attorney here called it a crazy, irrational scheme that had no chance of succeeding and illustrated his mental illness. He's delusional if he thought that. Yeah. He urged the judge to resist public pressure and give Hastings hope and an incentive to live. He said, come on. He said he doesn't have any prior criminal record. You shot six people. I don't care if you shoplifted a Twix bar when

you were 14. The fuck out of here. I don't give a fuck if you've never gotten a ticket. Doesn't matter. And never before had demonstrated violent tendencies and said it's totally inconsistent with the way he lived his previous life and the way he would live the rest of it. Well yeah, because he'll be in prison. So the district attorney though said that it was ironic that Hastings moved to Alaska because of the wilderness then turned around and erased such a vital part of it. So yeah, he said in the name of protecting Alaska, he destroys part of Alaska. The defendant took the life of McCarthy in order to make a statement. The judge says,

being an environmentalist, he was going to get a message across. This guy doesn't like environmentalists. He says, he says shit about his environmentalism repeatedly in a scathing way. He says shit about his environmentalism repeatedly in a scathing way. It's crazy. He said he was going to get a message across. He chose the wrong manner in which to do it. He said, I think it could have been decided without psychiatrists at all. He wasn't listening to those people at all. He let them talk as he has to because that's the law and the way shit works.

I don't need any of you people. But he says right now that I didn't even pay attention to that. He said, I think it could have been decided without psychiatrists at all. The facts are so clear, so undisputed, you don't need any psychiatrists. Any decent lawyer, that is an appeal fucking bait dangling right there, boy.

He just said, I didn't fucking even pay attention. I'm not taking any of that into consideration. He said, no one with any common sense can say there's anything wrong with this man. Oh. Really, you can see that right through his skull. Common sense is what it is. He's the second biggest asshole in the story, this judge.

Yes. When asked by Moody if he had any comment, Hastings said that he didn't have any time to prepare any remarks. Okay. And the judge said, quote, I'm not buying it. No, he said, these are delay delaying tactics is what you're doing. I'm not buying it.

I think you're fucking fine. He said there's no question in my mind that he knew exactly what he was doing when he killed nearly one third of the town. He said, you shall never again walk a free man. He said he sentences him to, and I'll give you a total in a minute, the maximum sentence of 99 years each on six counts. Holy. And on the first degree murder, the max of 20 years on each of the two counts of that.

He ordered the sentences to be run consecutively. You, sir, may fuck off 634 years in prison. 634 years in prison he gave him. Next Christmas I'm going to come around and go, that's one. Put the hat on and a big bag Santa thing. There you go. 633 more of these to go. Now the reaction here at the town,

one of the neighbors said, quote, they all shared a love of the land. The one thing they all had in common was that they had all helped him, meaning Lou, at one time or another. Jesus. Now, where will he serve the sentence? He's resisting the efforts by Alaska prison officials to send him to a federal prison

to serve his time. He's appealing correction officers' decision to request federal placement with a suit he filed in Anchorage Superior Court. He claims in the suit that prison officials' inmate classification system is unfair. It's usual procedure to ship high-security long-term prisoners to outside facilities, meaning outside Alaska. The state has not received any notice of acceptance from federal officials, but we anticipate our request will be accepted here.

Hastings may be placed in the federal system, would come after this decision, obviously. And they said that we really don't have any facility that can deal effectively with Mr. Hastings, is what one of the Alaskan spokespeople said. They said she noted that the state's only maximum security facility capable of handling prisoners with long sentences is in Juneau. So she said, and it's quite crowded. I bet. They said also in his appeal, he's talking about the vaguely worded policies to classify him for prospective federal system placement that violated his rights to due process and

equal protection under the law. You know it. Also he says he never, he says he has received money from the following sources in the last 12 months. The permanent dividend check fund, $331. Prison work payments amounting to $180, $10 from his mother. And he says he has about $305 in his prison account. And he said the remaining funds from the account shown, from the income shown have been used for personal maintenance and hygiene.

I do not own any stocks, bonds, notes, automobiles, real estates, or other valuable properties. So he's sent away. Go on, goodbye. We'll find out. He's going to be sent to Leavenworth, Kansas. Golly, back home. Bye. Yeah.

So that's something, anyway. He's by his family. So Chris Richards says he carries a handgun around in his back pocket ever since the murders. He said the only time he didn't have it with him was when he slept. He says it wasn't like I was afraid for myself. It was more or less I owe this to my neighbors.

I can't lose any more of my friends and neighbors, even the ones I don't like. Defend the ones he hates. They're my neighbors. Excuse me, I don't need any other assholes coming around and shooting them. I think of Amor as a big tribe of people. Most of us live here because we love the place and we have that in common. Then they talk about the tram.

They talk about how the cables are sagging dangerously close to the river and were difficult to use. The hand cables? Yeah. So the locals began plans for a new tram because of this, because they feared the state would build an auto bridge instead. They built a bridge. And they said, if you could drive to McCarthy, it wouldn't be here.

None of us would be here, basically. So they said Hastings was invited to join in the planning of the tram project, but he refused. Loy said, you know, synchroses are welcome here, but Lou couldn't see that. He didn't fit in. He felt that, but it was his own projection he was seeing, not ours. For a while, everybody just sat around and talked about the murders until somebody would say they've got to talk about something else. And then we talk about it some more.

But the tram project was right there to slip into it gave everybody something to do. So they all did it. The people rebuilt it. They secured $90,000 in funding from the state. Oh my god. Residents cut logs for support towers and salvage unused cable from the mines. $90,000 is what that thing costs? Yeah, to build.

And that's what that building is themselves Like that's not even like equipment or power Contract, right? It's a guy with an axe out there. Yeah chopping fucking logs And they said yeah They said that after the killings this took on meaning and they said it's not like we are cutting down the old cable and putting Up signs that say go home. We don't want any of that influence anymore. It's just the opposite We're opening our arms to the world. Come here. We're not weird. Seriously. We got a new tram. Look at us. It's easier now. Come on.

So, yeah, they talk about that and then Chris sues Lou in 1985. Yeah. He sues Lou for $3 million. I don't know where he's supposed to get that from, but I'll sue him for a trillion, what's the matter? Fuck, in the suit filed, he seeks one million dollars in actual physical damages and two million impunitive damages. It alleges that Hastings acted willfully and maliciously

with single-minded purpose and intent in grievously wounding and atrociously injuring Richards and attempting to take his life. I disagree. 1985, he changed his mind. He wants to change his plea. Can we have a trial now? I don't like 634 years.

I got... That one ended bad. I'd like to plead contest. Is that possible? I'd like to contest the hell out of this. He's asking that he needs a jury to listen to his claims that toxic poisoning prompted him to murder these people. Nah, we're good.

You got it, you're all right. He says the former attorney failed to pursue the copper toxicity defense. Oh boy. A thorough investigation of this claim may have explained the defendant's criminal conduct as being the product of a psychosis, or at the very least, it may have nullified

the mental state necessary to prove first-degree murder. Oh, I hear it. Ugh. He also said his original- You know, you make pennies I sucked on as a kid? I'm fine. Yeah. The original attorney here mistakenly believed he was on one of Hastings' hit lists and therefore

was unable to defend Hastings wholeheartedly, he said. Is that right? Yeah, that's exactly what they said. They said, yeah, he didn't want to do it. Hastings claims laboratory tests after the murder showed he had high levels of copper in his body, because he lives on the copper mine is what they're saying. In the summer of 82, he inhaled fumes while applying preservatives to logs at his cabin. He also says that he'd bring the winter, that he'd bring the winter he had inhaled,

during the winter he inhaled a substantial amount of dust while scraping paint off the cabin windows So lead paint copper in the air and what else was it and and fumes for fucking? lacquer fumes Made me snap. Okay, sure He says that the district attorney says the doctor who found the traces of toxins in his system concluded they might be a sign of low blood sugar levels in his blood, but themselves do not seem sufficient to cause him to be unable to appreciate the nature and quality of his content. It's a little much.

You just need an orange juice, man. That's all it is. Then he refused to allow his attorney to participate in a court hearing. He planned to seek permission to withdraw his no contest please and he doesn't want his attorney there. Says, I don't want this guy here. Yeah. He said he asked the guy not to implement any decision on today's hearing until the

defense appeals Carl's, the judge's refusal to remove himself. So the other fight in the judge, this one, that one, it doesn't fucking matter. He's pretty fucked here. 1987, he appeals again, blaming the copper. He blames organic copper. Really? They say, my review of a large body of medical research indicates that exposure to intoxicants involved

can cause psychiatric effects sufficient to explain my bizarre thinking between 1982 and 1983. That's what he wrote. He said his thinking led him to design a plan apparently meant to protest the deals here, the pipelines, and he said that, yeah, so it's gotta be that. That's all it is.

Yeah, did his own research, he knows. Did his own research, he googled it, and imagine if this guy had YouTube. he would have killed everybody long before this This is he didn't even have crazy people know on fucking Twitter or on YouTube Like telling him what he wants to hear and he still fucking did it. He didn't even get confirmation bias Oh, it would have been so bad. Oh my god 1988 he's been serving his time in Leavenworth. Some prisoners are being returned to Alaska. They got Robert Hanson, the serial killer and rapist, they got him back.

They also got Joseph Contreras back here as well, but I guess the prisoners, he chose to stay in Leavenworth. He had a choice. April 1993, this happens at Harley King's house. Oh? A woman shoots and kills her husband after he beat her all day and threatened to kill her. Susan Berg walked 12 miles to her nearest neighbor who drove her another 27 miles to the nearest telephone. To call and say he's dead?

To report shooting her husband Ralph. Susan has not been charged. She was admitted to the hospital and released. The shooting happened Monday evening in a cabin on long Lake at mile 50 of the McCarthy road. The couple was caretaking a cabin belonging to Joe King. King. Remember that name Harley's kid who was out of state.

King's husband, Harley King was one of the six McCarthy residents killed in 1983 shoot. Yeah, joking. That's his wife Joe. Yeah, so This is so I'm leaving if I'm her okay about I'm done. I'm done with the shooting fuck that 1996 Hastings files another appeal seeking post-conviction relief seeking to withdraw his pleas still Saying that he had ineffective assistance of counsel. The judge says get the fuck out of here seeking post-conviction relief, seeking to withdraw his pleas still, saying that he had ineffective assistance of counsel. The judge says, get the fuck out of here. That's good. There's a four-course Yakameel waiting for you somewhere. 1998, the town's catching up here. Richard said, I've got nothing but total respect for them, meaning the Heglans. They're old timers, they were all here before I thought of coming here. They had been here, done that, had a successful

homestead and raised healthy kids. All I could say is good stuff about them. I mean, they were the original item as far as people living back here. They were the original pirates, even though they didn't consider themselves that. So they said that took a major chunk out of this place. It changed the way it will be, no doubt. And the mail is no longer the event it used to be. They said the townspeople now gather on the gravel airstrip outside of a small mail shack. Since the shack is simple wooden structure, about 10 by 10, they quickly sort the mail, then mill about on the airstrip.

And in summer, some head on down to McCarthy to congregate at Miller's Pizza Place. Ruined the day. Ruined it all. Mail day isn't even fun anymore. It's over. Damn it. Not even fun. No, it sucks.

It sucks. Lloyd Green says, I'm thinking, oh my God, I saw something in that, man. I definitely saw something, but I wrote it off as so what. And right then I said to myself, okay, if I ever see that in another person's eyes, I'm not going to stand idle, period. I'm not going to say, oh well, myself, okay, if I ever see that in another person's eyes, I'm not going to stand idle Period I'm not gonna say oh well blah blah blah. No, I'm gonna do something. I don't know what but something Let's say let's hope boy is a very good judge of character Just look in the eyes someone has an astigmatism and he's like I'm gonna shoot him in the fucking head

I don't like the way he's looking at me. It's a fucking vampire right there. Oh my god. Jesus a few years later a young a couple of young fundamentalist Christians had temporarily moved to McCarthy and were hoping to stay permanently. Loy Green engaged one of them in a religious debate and said quote, I saw the same look lip curl and I walked away. He said that he then told everybody else at the lodge who'd been helping these two guys, the religious guys get started. And then one guy said when he heard green story, he said, okay, those guys are out of here. No support, no land. Loy disagrees with him on religion, so he can't live here. His lip curl, we gotta get rid of him.

Get rid of that curl now. 2004, he appeals again and the court rejects it again. And he does get re-sentenced though, because... That's a crazy sentence. No, no, no, it's only for the attempted murders. What? That's a crazy sentence. No, no, no. It's only for the attempted murders.

What? So it's like 610 years now instead of 634 years. The judge should have dismissed the attempted murder counts because of the lengthy delays, what he said. They said, no, no, but you should get resentenced because there's different factors and that's what it is. So he's got 610 years now. Did they bring him into court to tell him that?

I think so. That's 610, goodbye. He had a lot of hope too. From what I understand, I don't know, that's the last we hear of him is 2004. If you look up everywhere, it never says that he died. So he might still be alive at 80 years old at this point in federal prison. That's unbelievable.

In the media, by the way, this was the worst mass shooting in the history of Alaska. Really? Yes, and the case and the way, this was the worst mass shooting in the history of Alaska Yes, and the case and the town were just showcased on Discovery Channel's Alaska ice-cold killers episode frozen terror So there you go everybody that is McCarthy, Alaska and some goddamn crazy shit if I do say so myself That's the funniest sentence I've ever heard. Fucking ridiculous. If you like that show, tell the world about it. Tell everyone you know to listen to the show. Post on social media. Follow the pages. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Murder Small on Twitter. Follow

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national championship. So that's fun. Uh, for small town murder, we are going to talk about Ted Bundy's 1976 psychological evaluation right before he was sent to Colorado where he escaped. Um, this is worse shit. Well, he escaped sent to Colorado where he escaped. This is worse shit. Well, he escaped twice in Colorado. This is the evaluation to see if he should be sent to prison or if he was quote a violent person. I think we figured that out.

We'll check all that out. Patreon.com slash crime and sports and you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful people who would never ever ever force us to eat a four course yak meal. This week's executive producers are American Light Fixture and Showering Company. My favorite.

John Candy will sell, Del, you can sell me anything. Jessica Boucher, happy birthday. They're lighter. Cole, what was it? The rings, they're lighter. William, sorry. Cole Sperlin built his own house listening to us. Good for you, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole,

Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole,

Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Cole, Thank you so much. You guys are terrific. We can't do this without you other producers this week are Janice Hill drew DeWard Liberty Medic Joe shy Steve. I think that's Joe Burroughs nickname actually I think something like that, but it is not a compliment, but it's fun. This is the guy named Joe that like Maybe he's a big bangles fan. We don't know. Thank you. Sorry. You have to live in Christian Mastan Amory a Ahart, Amory, Amory, Amory? Amory?

Amory, that's Amory. It's that with a Y, not an E. That's Amory. All right, Ahart, that's all I know. Deanna, oh Deann Price, that's what it is. Guy Campina, Campin-ha, Campin-ha? How do you do that? Campina?

Campina? Is it an H? I don't know. Yeah. Is it just Campina? Campina maybe? Campina. No, the H is way after the P. Oh, it's way over there.

Yeah. It's fucked up. I don't know. You're on your own asshole, not you. All right. Jasmine Gravelly. April with no last name. Dana with no last name. Genevieve with no last name. Dana with no last

name. Genevieve with no last name. Marcus M. Adele Zilber. Kristen Marks. Jason with no last name. Roxanne Slaughter. Damon Rice. Jenna McThena. Aidan Walters. Walters? Who says that? Meredith Smith. Lourdes with no last name, Cheryl with no last name, Kate Pankiewicz, Pankiewicz, Merrick with no last name, Russell Stroeshine, William Lowe, Sweethearts, Chelsea Lind, Brian Roach, Rebecca Johnson, Terry with no last name, Megan with no last name, Rebecca with no last name, Michael Kozlowski, Stacey Winstead. Christian with no last name. Lacey Compton, Katie Zallar, Heather Robertson, Robertson, Jess Vixen, Erin Corona, Kathy with no last name. Alan Albright, Michelle Sweatt, Scott Tillman, Tillman. Hey Scott, thank you. Adrian with no last name. Kara

with no last name. Peyton Mull, Sam Sides, Mora would know last name. Tara Haast-Etler, probably not related. Jude, hey Jude. Tara would know last name. Caitlin Clark, probably not that one, but it's the exact same spelling. I hope it's, all right. Travis Nunez, Josephine Barrett-Badge, Sandon Sandon would know last name. Kelly, no last name. Danny with no last name. Strabebe, Savannah Carrier, Carrier. Jamie Jones, Evan Mazen, Angela Perea. Jake and Rachel Lindemuth, Sally Tate. Shelly Blake, Mel with no last name.

Julie Kessler, Bethan, Bethan Saunders. Mark Nixon, a girl named Linda Lou didn't think it was a dude but a suca oh is that a thing is that a song give me three steps yeah a suca forest Beth Road Lisa Danielle Daniel Terry love not a stripper but possibly a porn star, Britt Foster, Amy Breckenridge, SD Fuller, Jimmy's Asshole Scuba Buddy, oh those scuba guys, they're such assholes, Alistair Essence, Essence Ray, Hollywood, no last name. Teresa Bartow, Rebecca Brady, Drew Harefield, Jana, Jana von Segerne, Seggum, RN, Segerne, Joanna, Joanna Kilburn, probably not related, Brian Nott, Mary Coleman,

Beach, Beach Norton, Graham Boyd, Jessica Pommerlo, Andrew Edwards, K and H. This show brought to you by the letters K and H. Tony Ridstrom, Daniel Mendez, Betsy Brickson, Tara Kent, Eric R. Bradley G. Anthony, we know last name. Richie B. Yell. What is it? B. Yell?

What am I doing? Richie B. Yellen, motherfucker. That's what it is. Richie B. Yellen. Adelaide Evans, Adam Crabb, Mackenzie Cizole, Cindy Kay, Allison DiOrlando, Thomas Pitterer-Pitterer-G. What the fuck is that? Michelle Dyer, Clayton Deaver, hey Michelle,

Clayton Deaver maybe, Lawrence Brennan, Carly Grimes, Caitlin Shuler, Claire would know last name, Jennifer Morris, Molly Condon, Charlotte Castillo, Kai with no last name, Joaquin Gomes, Crystal Winters, Georgina Thompson, Joanne D'Onofrio, hey, I hope you're related, Jessica Bates, Michelle Reich, oh boy, that's tough, John Gault,

Adobe Yoder, Maybe it's Frank's kid. Adobe, Gavserve, Jacob Tabo, Tabo fucking what? Tabosinski? Not going to work here. Tabo Tabo something Polish. Tabo Tabo Tabo going to work here. Grace M., Jill Cupper, Cooper, Claire Newell, Amanda Gray, Andrew Harris, and every goddamn patron. You guys are terrific. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody.

You sons of bitches, we love you so much for all that you do for us, honestly. Thank you for what you do and keep coming and hanging out with us. If you want to follow us on social media, head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Drop down menu is right there. Keep coming back and seeing us and until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye! If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

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