Small Town Murder - #537 - The Ballad Of Bambi - Nixonville, South Carolina

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

This week, in Nixonville, South Carolina, when a nice couple are found, horribly murdered, in their nice home, everyone thinks it must be the serial killer, who was on the loose, in the area. Until they find out it wasn't him. Attention is then turned to the couple's troubled, adult daughter & her criminal boyfriend, who live in a tent, on the couple's property. There's a conviction & all seems right... until blood from the scene matches up to a stranger! Who did it???Along the way, we find out that a multi day chili festival sounds like a dangerous idea, that no matter how guilty someone seems, you still need evidence, and that some names just seemed doomed to be a murderer!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. In the upcoming episode of Killer Psyche, we will be diving deep into the unfolding case of accused Gilgo Beach serial killer, Rex Heuerman. Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to Killer Psyche and more exhibit C true crime shows early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. From Wondery comes a new series about a lawyer who broke all the rules. Need to launder some money? Broker a deal with a drug cartel?

Take out a witness? Paul can do it. I'm your host Brandon Jinx Jenkins. Follow Criminal Attorney on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow criminal attorney on the wonder yet or wherever you get your podcast. This week in Nixonville, South Carolina, when a brutal double killing happens inside of a nice home to nice people, everyone thinks it's a local serial killer, but then they eventually find the real killers. At least that's what they think.

Welcome to small Town Murder. Yay! Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, insane downhill adventure

that we know as Small Town Murder. We have a really wild story for you today. Don't turn it off if you think the story's done because there is a twist coming that is a punch right in the face. It's wild stuff today. We'll get into that. First of all, though, head over to Shutupandgivememurder.com get your tickets for the virtual live show Can't wait October the 30th be there. We will be there. You can be you don't have to be there You can be there where you are now wherever you are at home On the roof and your front yard wherever you want to watch it anywhere with an internet connection

You can get this show just like a regular live show except in your living room and we will be wearing costumes because it's Halloween. It's available for two weeks after it too so you can purchase it later, you can purchase it early and then watch it 20 times, you can do whatever you want with it. You got it for two weeks. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material anybody five dollars a month or above a mere cup of coffee that's it a cup of coffee

will get you hundreds of back bonus episodes and new ones every other week one crime in sports one small town murder and you get them all telling her that this week what you're going to get for crime and sports we're going to talk about that Vince McMahon documentary yeah and especially some some especially crazy things that happen in that documentary. Specific things that are just blowing my mind still. I can't get them out of my head. Then for small town murder, we are going to do part two of Ted Bundy's psychological assessment from 1976 because one, one part wasn't enough.

He's still, he's still got a lot of pictures to go through and those pictures were the most interesting thing in the world, hearing his picture interpretations, crazy stuff, patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that. Now, disclaimer time, it's a comedy show everybody. We are comedians, murder is gonna happen. It's right there in the title. So if we didn't give you murder,

you'd be really upset listening to the show. What am I listening to? Yeah. But the thing is you say, how do you make murder and comedy go together? Real easily. You just don't be a dick about it. And it comes out real easy. That's all. There's nothing funny about an actual murder, but the stuff around it is so crazy that it's kind of funny sometimes when a murderer says, I think I can get away with this if I just do A, B, and C. No, no, you're dumb. You're too dumb to get away with it. So that's what I'm talking about right there.

What we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do, we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. See how that works? Super simple.

You just don't be a dick and it's super easy. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say here? And let's all shout Let's do this everybody, okay, let's go on a trip shall we let's go we are going to South Carolina Okay, we're going to Nixonville, South Carolina. Where is that? It's in like kind of Eastern South Carolina down by Myrtle Beach there. Oh yeah. It is not exactly a town in itself. It's a it's an area. It's one of those things. It's an area. It's Nixonville, but the stats for it are from other places. It's very complicated. So it is about 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach,

so it's right there. Two hours and 15 minutes to Somerville, which was our last South Carolina episode, which was Murder Moves In, which that was crazy. That was when the two women met in rehab and then the one moved in and it turned into a mess here. Now it's in Horry County, R-O-H-H-Y, like Robert Horry, the famous NBA sixth man. R-O-H-H-Y like Robert Horry, the famous NBA sixth man.

R-O-H-H-Y. Yeah, I'm sorry, R-O-H-H-Y. H-O-R-R-Y. I went dyslexic on everybody for a minute there. Sorry about that. Yeah, that was fascinating. Wow, area code is 843. The motto here, much like the Raiders,

committed to excellence is there. You bet they are. Yes, they are. Hopefully this town turns out better than the Raiders have for the last 40 years or so. So it hasn't been great. Little bit of history of this town here, a little bit. It was originally, it's very isolated.

There's rivers and swamps all around it and then the ocean on the far East side of it. So it's essentially surrounded by water. So back in the day when there wasn't bridges and things like that, basically these people had to survive in here on their own. You know what I mean? It was it.

So no outside world help. And they actually used to call the county the independent republic of Ori. Like the people used to call it that. I love that. It's like an island? No, it's in the middle of some swampland, but there's so much shit around it.

Swamps and rivers and water basically. So the county is named after the revolutionary war hero, Peter Ory, who was born here in 1743. And they put a big bronze statue up of him in 2012. Because you could have put a statue up of anybody. No one knows what that guy looks like. You know what Peter Ory looks like from 1743? No, I'm adding a little bit off of Robert Ory.

That's it, Robert Ory with a powdered wig on. That's what I picture at this point. So, shooting threes, shooting clutch threes in a conference championship game. So, they put up this big thing, this big bronze statue here. It's got a stone base. It cost the town $16,200 to do this, which I assume is probably pricey for a small town. I guess everything else there was already done.

It's all perfect. What do we do? The population has increased more than fourfold since 1970. So it's going up a lot because Myrtle Beach got more popular. South Carolina as a state got more popular. It's become a real destination for like retired people and second home people. You know what I mean? Because it's in the middle of nowhere and it's quiet. You can drive 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach. It's a lot of resorts and stuff there. Famous people from here, only one, Vanna White is from Horry County. Is that right?

Yeah, that little accent that comes through, that's where it's from. From time to time, yeah. So reviews of this town, by the way, remember when she tried to act? That was funny. Just turn the letters. It didn't work Yeah, you got you're the top of your game there Acting not so much. Just do it. It's job security that jobs not going anywhere for 40 fucking years No, it's a she had it forever. Yeah, it's not exactly like Whitney Houston be back, you know

Like we're choosing like a giant hit. It was better for her. Rock out those letters and enjoy your house. Count your money. You're doing great. I'll trade jobs with you in a heartbeat. For sure. Who wouldn't touch them? She doesn't even have to turn them anymore. She touches them now for Christ's sake. She was in video games.

She was in everything. So reviews of this town. Here's five stars. I really like my community. I have been here all my life. The only downside is it takes people time to get used to outsiders. Any town where they refer to other people as outsiders, I'm a little worried. It's a little worrisome, you know? Outsiders.

What are you talking about? I also hate the amount of shooting that goes on. Because it's secluded, people shoot. It's very close to the beach, which is a plus. It's very close to the beach. Let a few rounds on. Let a few. I was going to say, you wear your swim trunks and your tactical vest outside when you go

out there. Here's four stars. I've lived in Hree County for several years and it's been an overall good experience since I've lived here. Oree County has many good public schools and also has very affordable housing developments and as well as amazing tourist attractions. Oh, they went with the and also and as well together. And and as well. Three stars. Horry's County's main attraction is Myrtle Beach. The nightlife is good. The beach is beautiful.

There is plenty to do. Amusement parks, bounce houses, roller rinks and bowling alleys, golfing to one's desire. What if you don't want to do any of those things though? What if you're not 12? What if you're not 12 or 75? What about if you're anywhere in between there? Do it anyway. There are shows like the Alabama Theater and Medieval Times Dinner Theater and many more. That's what's the art and culture scene around there? Well, we got a Medieval Times. Oh, okay. That says a lot.

However, these things are so expensive to use. The Medieval Times cost $36.95 per performing children 12 and under. So apparently $36.95 for children 12 and under? That seems a bit steep. It's a business though, and we don't get to decide what the business charges. No. Yeah. I don't charges. No. Yeah. I don't think. No.

We have to do that for your stupid opinions, by the way. Medieval times in this area and figure out this deal. Find out what's happening there. The cost of attractions in Horry County makes it difficult for families to enjoy with reasonable expectations. Okay. And here is three stars. I've lived in Hie County for 18 years,

and it's a great community, but all things have their drawbacks. Horrible traffic in the summer. Gee, by the beach, it's shocking. Can you imagine? Yeah. Like you go, I expected the beach to be quiet in the summer, no one comes here.

What a drag. Too many home developments, and government positions are held by friends, which if you've seen- Get yourself a good old boy system. If you've seen the Murdoch murders, any stuff on there, absolutely, that's how shit works there.

It's who you know and who's your friend. That's how people get jobs in Horry County. Say in a job interview, one person has a four-year degree and a great amount of experience, and the other person is your friend with no degree and no experience. We get it, we get what you're saying. Nepotism.

I don't know if you know how nepotism works, Jim, so let me illustrate. Say you're in a job interview. And they go on, they push it across the finish line and say, in Horry County, the friend would be hired. We, I think so. That's surprising. I expected the guy with the degree to get it. I don't know.

And then it says- They took the time to explain how nepotism works. Not just that it exists, but how it works. The nuts and bolts of it, really. Got to break down the nuts and bolts of this shit, man. It's the greatest thing ever. That is incredible. Holy shit. And then in all caps, completely unfair. Yeah. Yeah.

This person did not get the county job they were looking for. Two stars, we've always loved Myrtle Beach, but Horry County is letting the hoodlums take over the grandstand. Not the hoodlums in the grandstand. With their loud jacked up trucks racing their engines all night long and blowing their air horns. It's a shame And I can't even do anything about it because their dad's best friends with the cops That's and see what happens is in a job interview. It's his county commissioner. I don't know if you know this but in this town Since his father knows the guy

God Jesus Christ. One star here. Ory County is a good old boy county. There you go. Crime ridden, nothing but bars and strip joints, no family oriented at all. No, no family oriented at all. That's not what good old boy means. No, not at all. That's not what good old Wayne's looking at. Not at all.

If you want to party, I guess you might like it, but still I would not recommend it. If you want to party, I guess, oh, if you want to go to strip clubs and bars. Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's a tourist summer beach destination. I have lived many places all over the country. Husband was military and South Carolina, more specifically, Horry County, is the one state I have not, in all caps, not one good thing I can say, I can think of to say about it. Okay.

She, nobody ever told her if you can't think anything nice to say. You did say there are strip clubs. There are strip clubs, that's not bad. Population in this little area, from best I could tell, because a lot of these population estimates were like including other towns and Myrtle Beach and it's like, okay. But the best I can tell there's about almost 1200 people in this area, 1167. So it's more rural, few more females and males. Median age here is a little bit higher because of you're going to get some retirees here. So it's almost 48 years old. It's about 10 years past the national average.

The married rate's a little bit lower. Divorce rate's a little bit lower. So people just aren't getting married. So that's good for them. They figured out what they're going to do with themselves. Only 6% of the people here are single parents, which is beneath the thing, which I think old people and families are not going to get a lot are single parents, which is beneath the thing, which I think old people and families,

you're not gonna get a lot of single parents there. I have here the percentage of households with and without children, I found here. 75% of households are without children here. No children, 75% of the households, not bad. What a dream. That's why there's strip clubs and bars everywhere. Nobody has kids, they have time for this shit. Yeah. Race of this town, about 85% white, 6.6% Hispanic, 3.7% black, 4.2% Asian. So it's spread around a little

bit here. Median household income is just above the national average, $73,997. So, not bad. The median home prices here too are low. Yeah, the regular average home price, median home price is $318,879. Here it's $229,925. Not bad. So not bad, higher income, lower housing cost. It's not bad.

So some people might be like, well, how do I get here? I want to live at the beach. I don't live 20 minutes from the beach. Well, for you folks, we have for you the Nixonville, South Carolina real estate report. Found here, there's a four bedroom, five baths. So T-bowl for all your bee holes here. Not bad.

2225 square feet. Four bedroom, 2200 square feet. That's nice. Family house. It's a weird looking house. The windows are really small, which is, it's just real strange. And it is inside. You got to completely redo the inside like it has no kitchen

Like there's a room where a kitchen could be housed but there is nothing in it that would resemble a kitchen or giveaway that it what kitchen once lived here and It's just a weird place. It's very outdated. There's fucked up carpet in all the rooms It's like all half torn up and dirty and gut job here. It's a mess. 195,000 bucks for that though. Worth it. Not bad. Yeah. It's not bad at all. It's a great price for that house. Um, here is a four bedroom, three bath, 2,390 square foot house. Um, this is a nice house. It's like that other house except finished. It's done.

Done and everything's nice inside. Um too bad at all. It says it's set on nearly a half acre and it says the listing says it's priced in all caps far below market value offering tremendous potential for the savvy buyer willing to invest in some updates. Okay. I guess up some updates that aren't cosmetic tells me there's like wiring problems or plumbing issues or something like that you're gonna have to do a roof that's fucked up and then finally four bedroom for bath how much was that oh I'm sorry that is uh 265 thousand dollars okay so not terrible Neat the average here and then a four bedroom for bath t-bowl for each and every b-hole 4592 square feet big house on 1.43 acres.

The house itself is pretty hideous from the outside. It looks like, you know how all the like apartment complexes have like buildings, different ones. It looks like a building from an East Coast apartment complex. Oh, like it houses like it houses like eight apartment units in it. That's what it looks like. It's really ugly. No charm, no charm. There's 34 pictures and not one of the inside. So what the hell does that tell you? 3434 nothing from the inside. All

didn't even break the threshold. People don't care about what's inside. What are you looking at? And it's an ugly house, so it's 34 different angles of an ugly house. $890,000 for that though. Yeah, fucked. No, thank you. Hideous. No way. Nope. Things to do here, there's a few.

First of all, the world famous Blue Crab Festival, which sounds delicious. I love a blue crab. That is good shit. So this happens on the historic Little River waterfront Yeah, and it's one of the largest festivals held along the Grand Strand every year Maybe that's what the guy was trying to say Grand Strand. Yeah, the hoodlums were taking over Yeah, what started as a small gathering along the banks of the Intercoastal Waterway is now a premier festival That's projected to draw over 50,000 attendees to the area in May

Shit the festival features live music. God damn. Shit. The festival features live music that's so good we won't tell you about any of it. 50,000 people are coming to see shit you're not going to tell us what it is? They're not even going to hire Nelly and he plays everything. Ludacris isn't going to be here. He's at every county fair there is for Christ's sake. 50,000 people. There's a kids zone, 200 arts, crafts and specialty

food and business vendors. Also you can enjoy amazing local seafood from one of the restaurants and they have a soft shell crab sandwich that they're pushing as their thing, which sounds goddamn delicious. I'll eat that all the time. So that takes place. It's like a weekend event today weekend event also the I nor I nor a nor a Ynor a nor I nor I don't know Harvest hoedown Hell, let's head to the hoedown Jimmy. Let's do this actual hoedown. That's there. It's advertised They said we invite you to the most exciting festival that is organized on the third Saturday in every September exciting festival that is organized on the third Saturday in every September. Which is a terrible sentence that says, of all the festivals organized on the third Saturday

in September, this is the best. By far. At the festivals you can participate in various events including arts and crafts, a parade, and of course, quote, entertainment. Doesn't say what it is. It might be a ventriloquist, it might be Smash Mouth, we have no idea. a parade and of course quote entertainment. Doesn't say what it is. Might be a ventriloquist, might be Smash Mouth, we have no idea. Something will take your attention.

Don't worry. Something will do this here. And then finally the beach and chili fest. Okay, I like both of those things. But I don't want them together. No? I don't want beach at the chile, I don't want chili at the beach at all. I don't mind.

I just don't want, I don't want sand in the chill. I don't want chili at the beach at all. I don't mind I don't want I don't sand in my chili. Also, it's hot. Wait hot hot chili in the heat I mean, it's at the beach So I assume so it will feature two full days of entertainment of sandy chili that you're gonna eat Two days of chili two days of chili imagine those-potties after two days of chili. It's gonna be. That's insane. Oh, it's gonna be apocalyptic in there. Including a car show, live music, family fun,

chili tastings, and special guests. And they talk about it's the world's best chili, hundreds of flavors and recipes. It's the, they have there the 57th annual World Championship Cook-Off presented by Bush's Beans. Oh, Bush is the sponsor of this. Oh yeah. It's the centerpiece of the beach and chili fest.

That's fascinating that a bean company is sponsoring it and there is probably an overwhelming amount of people that do not want beans in it. I think they have their own opinion on it and it's probably pro chili bean, I would say. I prefer a chili without beans personally, but if they're in there, I'll eat that too. I don't give a shit I don't care. I don't give a shit really the spice is what matters and That's good. If it's a chili dog on a hot dog get those fucking beans out of there though that right that I want No part of no beans on a hot dog. That's just they fall off and shit. It's awkward. Yeah I want no part of no beans on a hot dog. That's just they fall off and shit. It's awkward Yeah

So there they said there's close to 300 professional chili teams Teams teams 300 of them that will battle it out for the coveted title and their share of a $75,000 prize purse Chili pays man Shit, they'll also have a chance attendees will have a chance to influence the competition by voting for the People's Choice winner as well. And the festival wraps up Sunday with what's called a spirited Battle of the Bands competition featuring local school bands.

No. Wrong. You're going to hear 1800souza songs over and over again. Are there 300 different flavors of chili? I don't think there is. I don't think so. I think it's gonna be that one tastes a little different than that one. That one tastes exactly like about 60% of these.

You couldn't taste 300 chilies and by the by 130 you would have no idea which one is the which. You wouldn't even know anymore. and by 130 you would have no idea which one is which. You wouldn't even know anymore. Your mouth would be so screwed here. So the winning band could receive up to $2,000. So that's nice. Just make some chili. You make more money.

That's what I mean. Get those kids into chili making. Get them going when it's young here. And happy hour is where attendees get a free chili dog between 4.30 and 5.30 p.m. Fuck yeah, I'll take that. But they start out, they have a DJ and music performances, the Kind Keepers Dog Fashion Show, gotta have that. Star performer Stilt Walker will be there.

Some guy walking on stilts. A chili award ceremony, obviously. Myrtle Beach Pelican splash whatever the fuck that is The battle of the bands is from 12 to 2 and then there's a car show and then finally a band will be playing Miracle Max and the pet monsters Yep, I don't know what that is. Okay Crime rate in this town here what we're interested in. They don't have the normal crime rates in here, but I found some other shit here. They have an A grade of crime on this one website that means the rate of assault is much lower than the US average city. Nixonville is in the 91st percentile for safety, meaning 9% of cities are safer and 91% of

cities are more dangerous. Wow. Incred incredibly safe. Yeah, the rate of assault here very low. It's 1.297 per 1,000 residents and it's very safe here. You have a very low chance of all of these crimes. The A grade means that the rate of murder is much lower than the U.S. average city. Nixonville is in the 86th percentile for safety, meaning 86 percent of cities are more murdery than them. So there you go, that's the murder, rape, robbery, and assault in that rush form.

I blame the chili, bud. You get chili involved and it's very inviting. When your butthole's burning, boy, anything can happen. Let's put it that way. You've eaten 300 different kinds of chili. Something in there's got some spices that don't agree with you. Two sword to fight. Two sword to fight.

Two sword to fight. So that said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say here? Okay, let's start out with some people, shall we? All right, let's talk about Gloria Diane Mills. That's her name. She'll be Gloria Diane Parker later on, but for now she's Mills.

She's born in 1950. Her first name's Gloria, but she goes by Diane, which is her middle name, but her friends and close family call her Sugar. Oh, I was going to say GD. Sugar. GD Mills, god damn it. Sugar. Hey Sugar. She's born in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Two parents, James and Shirley. She has two brothers and three sisters, so, Jesus, four girls and two boys. That's a hell of a house. That's a tough going there.

Now Diane is going to get married pretty young. She's going to get married when she's about 20 years old to a guy named David Livingston. Now they're going to have one child together, a daughter named Bambi. Now they're gonna have one child together, a daughter named Bambi. That is her real name. Her name is Bambi. They called her that. Bambi Livingston.

Later on she'll be Bambi Bennett, double B. Is that right? Oh yeah, she's Bambi Bennett for the rest of the time, but for now she's Livingston. She's born in 1971. Now somewhere in the 70s, Diane and David get a divorce. Okay. Okay, they get a divorce here in the late 70s, like early 80s, and they're still working

their divorce out when Diane meets a new man at church. Oh yeah, she's big in the Tilly Swamp Baptist Church. The what? The Tilly Swamp Baptist Church. I got an idea everybody, don't put the word swamp in the name of anything you'd like people to go to. How's that? Nope.

Not exactly. The Tilly Swamp. Tilly's might be the greatest church in the world, but it sounds like it's literally you have to like wade through a swamp to get there, which doesn't sound attractive to me. And a ghillie suit is that thing that you put on to simulate being in the swamp in it. I don't know. This is Tilly, T-I-L-L-Y, like stairway to stardom lady. Sounds too close.

Sounds a little close. Yeah. The Tilly Swamp Baptist Church, where she meets a man named Charlie Parker. Yes, Charlie Parker is his name. Charles Edward Parker here. He's born same year as her, 1950. He is born in Conway, which is very nearby here. We've done an episode about Conway before, actually, back in the day.

Yeah, it's pretty, pretty close to Nixonville. Like a lot of the statistical things will include Conway and Myrtle Beach and Nixonville altogether. So it's all, it's in Horry County. And so he's lived in this general area his entire life. And he likes to hunt and fish and do outdoor stuff. And you know, How does Charles feel about being a stepdad? That's well, we'll find out about all that here. He's a member of the member a member and a past master of the Ori Masonic Lodge. Oh yeah. So he's in a little society there. And he's also a member of the Tilly Swamp Baptist

Church, deeply religious guy and very, very, very into the religious congregation. And any event that goes on at the church, he is front and center boy right there, Mr. Religious. And so is she too. The two of them together are very, very devout, we'll say. And from what everybody says, they're devout in the right way where they just treat everybody really nice. They're really nice to everybody

and they can't wait to help people. So that's very nice. Now he also owns, Charlie owns and operates Mirror Tech, which is a business that he has, and makes pretty good money off of that. What do they do? I don't know. I assume shit with mirrors or something.

Generally think businesses in the South are right on the nose. They literally have like a Inatech or some shit where you don't know what the fuck they make. No, they're gonna tell you what they're doing here. So yeah, mirror tech and the way they do it too, like he has a house and the business is sort of on his property. It's about 150 yards from the house. So he's got a bunch of employees that work in there. So he walks to work every day, obviously just across the yard and they do well. I mean, he's doing great. We'll talk about her. She'll be working at a school

doing her thing. Now they get married here and they have a son named Charlie Parker Jr. So we'll have that. Now everybody likes them. He's a good stepdad by the way. Doesn't mind Bambi at all. Everything's fine for now that is. Booster Juice is, by the way. Doesn't mind Bambi at all. Everything's fine. For now, that is. Booster Juice is bringing back the classics. Celebrating 25 years of Canada's favorite smoothies with the return of the Orcicle, the original, and the marathon. Download the Booster Rewards app today.

In November, 1991, media tycoon Robert Maxwell mysteriously vanished from his luxury yacht in the Canary Islands. But it wasn't just his body that would come to the surface in the days that followed. It soon emerged that Robert's business was on the brink of collapse, and behind his facade of wealth and success was a litany of bad investments, mounting debt, and multi-million dollar fraud. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show Business Movers.

We tell the true stories of business leaders who risked it all, the critical moments that define their journey, and the ideas that transform the way we live our lives. In our latest series, a young refugee fleeing the Nazis arrives in Britain determined to make something of his life. Taking the name Robert Maxwell, he builds a publishing and newspaper empire that spans the globe. But ambition eventually curdles into desperation, and Robert's determination to succeed turns into a willingness to do anything to get ahead. Follow Business Movers wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondry app. And everybody here loves them. They are the type of people that they say all the towns people say

they command respect from people because they're exemplary, upstanding people that have no skeletons in their closets or any shit. The people is what they are. They could be judgy because they're good basically, but they don't judge. They're nice people. Now, 1983, remember Diane's first husband, uh, David Livingston, he dies in 1983. Oh no. Dies at a very young age yeah absolutely now Bambi at this point is 12 years old and her father's dead it's you know that's not good for a 12 year old but she inherits about a hundred acres and a

house from her dad at 12 years old which is... See you around, Ma. I own no property at 12 whatsoever. Nothing. I got a place to be. See you around. Wild. Because not only had her father died, David's father died as well. So Bambi's grandpa died. So all of their... The grandfather died and went to David and then David died right after that and it all went to Bambi. So she's getting all of that. Diane at this point is working as a school secretary with the Horry County School District and her main hobbies are yard sales and antiquing. Okay. And crafty shit. She likes crafty stuff. Yeah. That's the ladies safe version of gold panning. Yes, it is. Yeah.

Yeah, yard sales. Sometimes you'll walk into an antique shop and be like, don't say shit, but that thing's $9.95. I can sell that for $30. Yeah, I can sell it on eBay. No, that is kind of what it is. It's either that or like a casino type of deal. Yeah.

Like a penny slot. But you gotta purchase it and go home and then start looking, researching it to find out what you really made on this. You have to know ahead of time here. So during the 1980s, now Bambi's dad is dead so all she's got is her mom and her stepdad at this point. And 100 acres. And 100 acres to spread out.

Mom, I'm going to my acreage, fuck you. And there's a house there too, it's not even like she'd have to pitch a tent. I'm going to my acreage, fuck you. And there's a house there too. It's not even like she's at the Pitchett tent. I'm going to my property. I got a house. I have my own trash to take out on my property. So Diane and Bambi are pretty close though over the 80s, as you'd expect here.

Tuesday Bibi, who is one of Bambi's cousins, Tuesday Bibi is her name. Tuesday's her first name? Her first name is Tuesday. Tuesday Beebe. Wow. I've seen Wednesday, like Adam's. I've never seen anyone named Tuesday before.

Actually, I think I have. No, I've never heard of it. I think I have one other person I've heard of Tuesday. So she was the maid of honor at Bambi's first wedding. Okay. Bambi will have plenty of weddings, don't you worry. Is that right? Oh yeah, Bambi is a bit of a mess here.

She likes to get married. Bambi's a bit of a bumbler when it comes to the vows. So they, she's the, like I said, maid of honor at the first wedding and she said that Bambi and her mother were almost inseparable at that point. She said about the mom, she wouldn't leave her side, the whole family are very well respected, she said. So, very nice. 1990 comes around and Bambi's going through a divorce.

I believe this is her second husband possibly, maybe her first, not sure. So, she at this point, going through a divorce and owning 100 acres in a house is a problem because she doesn't want this guy to get any of her inheritance. Right? Her shit. Yeah. Her shit. So rather than having to sell it or something, she's trying to keep the land away from her husband. So Bambi deeds the property, including the house, to her mother in 1990. Brilliant.

And by the way, this is where the family's gonna live, in this house on this acreage. Really? Oh yeah, yeah, that's where they're gonna live, set up their business. Hey Bambi, we're gonna use your shit. Which is, that's a weird dynamic, that's a weird power dynamic between parent and child,

if the child owns the home. If the child's net worth is more than their parents? Yeah, that's just, that has to be real weird. It's my house, god damn it, I'll do what I want. You're 13, don't talk to me like that. Well, you don't talk to me like that in my own house. I'll call the constable and have you removed. Yeah, that's fucking crazy.

So she's going to do that. Bennett here, Bambi said later on that Diane persuaded her to deed the property before she divorced her husband. Bennett said she agreed, Bambi does, but thinking it would keep her husband from claiming half the property in the divorce. So Bambi also said her mother refused to return the property to her when asked because after the divorce was fine she said okay feed the property back to me and she said well can't really do that right now. What'd she do?

She said why can't you do that right now? She mortgaged it. Got some mortgage on it right now. You bastard! You mortgaged my my inheritance. Thank you What the fuck? So she also said her mother sold a few acres of different parcels of acreage of the property as well without her knowledge She wasn't real happy about that and Yeah, county records show that Diane had sold several parcels of the property since 1990 So whenever she needs a little money, she'll sell off a parcel property since 1990. So whenever she needs a little money, she'll sell off a parcel. It started out as 100 acres, it's now about 67 acres. So she sold off a third of the shit off and there's an outstanding mortgage on that 67 acres. So now there's less land and

it's not really yours anymore. Good news, bad news. Shit. Yeah. Less land to pay taxes on, good news, bad news. You also gotta pay homeowners insurance. There's also a mortgage now. Now Bambi, after the 90s, she will have been married three times and has four children. Two from one marriage, two from another.

And one of the marriages produced nobody. So seems like in the around the turn of the century here, 1999, 2000, she seems to only have about two kids living with her. That was her sons that were born in 91 and 93 after she got remarried. So young fellows. Yeah, young kids here. Diane at one point in 1999 tried to get Bambi's kids from her. What? Yes, she went to court to try to get the kids from her daughter, her grandkids. So she sought custody of the two grandsons, not the other two kids, from her daughter here. Not the other two kids from her daughter here and

Yeah, this was and her by the way Bambi's third husband who's the father of these daughter of the grandsons His name is Charlie also How's he doing? He's actually not so great. He's not so great either here the family court though allowed Bambi to keep her children To take children away from a mother especially especially if you're not the father, is very difficult. They have to really be abusive, they have to have no food. Like it has to be- Yeah, you got to make a really strong case of neglect to be able to get them. Oh God, like they're in danger. So in court documents, Diane said the boys lived with her at the time and she cared for

them for three years before she sought custody. So she said for her it's just a matter of they're with me anyway I need to be able to do things and have power. They're with me I'd like the tax benefits. The tax benefits not only that but also I think the doctor rights and all of those things I mean there's just decisions that you have to be have custody to make even if you want to travel with them or something You know what I mean stuff like that. So she said in an affidavit. I am very concerned for the safety of my grandsons That's not good

She said I consulted an attorney about getting legal custody of my grandsons because I was afraid that Bambi's behavior was becoming more erratic Yeah, she said that she had to quit her job at Conway Middle School to take care of the children full time as well. So she's like, I'm doing this, I should also get custody. And then in a separate affidavit filed by Charlie Parker Sr., Bambi's stepdad, he said that Bambi had a serious drug problem

and that he and his wife had tried to get Bambi help and she's been admitted to two drug programs in the past and they don't take. How about that? So she's erratic, she's unstable, and she's on drugs and we can't get her to stop, so we'd like to take care of the kids. Which is actually, yeah, I would think so,

yeah, probably. That would be the only thing that would be, or heroin, I mean, one of those. It has to be one of the big so. Yeah, probably. That would be the only thing that would be heroin. I mean, one of those. It has to be one of the big ones. Yeah. Yeah, so she's, I mean, this, it sounds like the grandparents give a shit about the kids. Sure do, yeah.

And want to take care of them and make sure that they're okay. A lot of grandparents would be like, I don't know, that's her fucking problem. We're living our golden years, leave me alone. But they're not into that at all. He said in the affidavit that when Bambi used drugs, her behavior becomes very erratic.

She screams and curses with no thought that the children are right there and hearing everything that comes out of her mouth. Okay. Again, the drugs are a thing, but you're allowed to curse around your kids. That's not a... Yeah, you don't get to tell freedom of speech and stuff.

Well, I mean, yeah, they're your kids. Outside of hitting them or molesting them, you could pretty much do whatever you want with them, as long as you feed them and give them a house to live in. I think it's fine. And some places encourage that hitting part. Yeah. Yeah. So in her response, Bambi says that she's not hooked on prescription drugs, as her mother

said. Oh. So her mom said she's been hooked on painkillers, I guess. She said, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia syndrome in 1994, and I'm only on prescription medications that are doctor prescribed. What does it mean that you're not whacked out on painkillers all the time, though?

I mean, most painkillers are doctor prescribed. A lot of pill addicts say that. These are prescribed. You're taking a shitload of them. Yeah, but of pill addicts say that. Yes. Prescribed. You're taking a shitload of them. Yeah, but the doctor said I can. Said I can. I did go to seven different doctors

to get a bunch of different prescriptions. But they all said I should take these. They all told me to take two. So I listened to all of them. I took 14. So she denied the children live with her mother for three years. She said her mother offered to help her with the boys because she was alone at the time and they moved freely between her home and her mother's home.

The boys did anyway. Bambi said that because her mother was helping her, she had the child support checks sent directly to her mother as a thanks for helping me with my children, not because they were living with her. my children not because they were living with her. So she helped so much that you'd send the child support checks directly to her. That sounds like more than just... That sounds like a shitload of help there, I would say. So Bennett here accused her mother of only caring about her sons, meaning Bambi's sons, but not about Bambi's daughters. Don't give a shit about them, only the boys.

Aren't they on their own? Who, the? The girls, the daughters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She doesn't have to, I mean she gives a shit about them but she doesn't, she's not focused on them because these boys need help. I think, but she's saying that like the girls are in the same boat but she gives a shit

about the boys. So that's all there is here. So that's that's fucking like a paycheck or some shit. I guess that's what she said. I don't know what she's saying. Either way. I don't know what how that would matter in court whether she cares more about the sons and that doesn't make any sense at all. She's trying to care for him. So somehow through all of this Bambi and Diane keep kind of coming back to each other though You know they fought in court multiple times But they end up always kind of when Bambi is down on her locker she comes back and needs to live with them for a while

They are always okay with it. So And that's that's that's part of it. So yeah, I mean you have to help I guess and especially them That's what families do for each other generally, I guess. And if you're going to be Mr. fucking Christian, then back it up. Yeah. You know, fucking 10-tier flock motherfucker. What do you want? Yeah, I don't know what to tell you.

So 2005 here, Bambi is still married to Charlie Bennett, even though they haven't been together for years. Okay. It's been like five, six years, but they're still technically married. So we go to Alabama. Yup, that's tough. So that's her third husband, Charlie, like we said. And she though has moved on from Charlie and has a new boyfriend she lives with.

And this name is a name we've heard before. It came up in our shout outs and it also is a very popular murderer name for some reason. Several murderers have this name. Richard Gagnon. Is that right? G-A-G-N-O-N. Dickie Gagnon. Yep. Gagnonma dick. That's that's what we got here. Okay, dickie gags here 1973 he's born. He's two years younger than Bambi and they've been dating for about two years now She loves it anytime you want to push that paperwork through on the divorce would probably be great But probably pull that trigger pretty quick here, but no Yeah, they've been dating their relationship started after he got a job working for her parents at mirror tech Oh, I say me yeah

You meet a girl who lives on the property of your job. That's pretty easy This town really is into the nepotism. Oh, yeah to including pussy Now if you work here, one of the perks is you do get to fuck my daughter. See, if there's a job interview, you gotta fuck the boss's daughter. You gotta fuck the boss's daughter. You do a good job, she'll date you and you get the job. You're hired. That's how it works.

Otherwise, she's gonna find somebody else to hire. Otherwise, she's probably gonna fuck her dad's friend. Yeah. So at this point now, he ends up kind of moving in with them So we have Charlie and Diane the parents we have Bambi and Dickie gags, right and Two of her kids at some point the boys. Yes, not the girls. No, no, the boys are gone now Now we have the girls by the way now We have the girls back the boys are now with her husband from her second marriage in Texas.

Holy! And her daughters are here with Charlie and Diane and whatever. She gets to shit about the daughters now. I guess the Sokosti area, I can't remember how you say that, we did an episode about it, but that area is where Charlie Bennett, the ex-band lives or soon-to-be ex-husband lives That's where the daughters are so sons are in Texas daughters live with their father close by Essentially now have Bambi or Dickie gags ever been in trouble Yes, let's find out well actually Bennett has no criminal right? Somehow Bambi Bennett's managed to float through life,

having some questionable decisions and- Functioning pill addict. Not getting arrested at least. She's not driving, she's doing whatever. So that's in South Carolina where she's born and raised. Dickie Gags though, he's got several convictions from other places we'll talk about here Petty larceny in 1991. Okay. I think he was 17 at the time too. So I mean I'll give him that

He went to Florida at some point here He was charged with driving under the influence in Florida in 1994, but that's just how you get hammered That's just how you get Florida citizenship though. Yeah, they don't let you do either you are Absolutely, I feel like you can't get on the voting roll or anything like you can't like You know get on any of the local things without at least one blow in this yeah Few more drinks you're you're a little low son. That's So the breathalyers in the cars there, they only start if you blow a.07. You gotta blow a.07. That's how they know that you're comfortable driving.

So they want you to... So yeah, he drove under the influence in 94. Then he's charged with, and this is a lot more serious, in 1999 in Pennsylvania. So that's going, by the way, all over the fucking place, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and in 1999, he is arrested and charged and convicted of aggravated assault on a police officer in 1999. Aggravated.

That's a charge right there. Yeah. That is big time, and he is sentenced in that case to, you sir, may fuck off, two to four years in prison. Wow. So apparently though, that was in 99, he's out by 2003 because that's when they're, he needs Bambi and they start hooking up.

So that's the history of them. Now Bambi and Dicky gags, by 2005, there's been problems with the parents that we'll talk about. Sure. So they said, fuck this, we're not living in this house with you people. Yeah. Bambi and Dicky Gags, and the kids when they come over, live in a tent in the woods.

Oh my God. A tent in the woods. That's the option. That's the option. They are homeless people on their own property, essentially. So a tent. They live in a fucking tent. That says a lot right there.

In the woods. So Bambi lives in the woods. That's pretty fun. And there's problems here. One guy, George Carrick, he works for the Parkers at Mirror Tech. He said that Dick and Dickie Gags and Bambi lived with the Parkers at Mirror Tech. He said that Dick and, Dicky Gags and Bambi lived with the Parkers but were kicked out of the house and living in the tent behind the home

for a couple months here. So they have, they only visit the house to shower and eat when the parents are away. So like if they go somewhere, they come in and shower and get some food and then scurry back out into the woods. We're leaving. Clean yourselves up. Clean your back. So make it fast. I'm surprised they don't just like hang a hose from a hook outside and they're like, there you go. There's your shower. Like that's what it seems like is going on here. So apparently this carrot

guy, the employee said that Charlie Parker senior and Bambi Bennett had spats back and forth sometimes, most of the time over the acreage. This I should own this part and you should own that. This is mine. This is yours. It's been 15 years and they're still fighting about land, which is interesting here. They have, there's troubles also obviously with child custody fights. That'll leave

a little acrimony in your relationship. And so, you know, it's all that kind of thing. January of 2005, Dickie Gagnon is fired from his job at MirrorTech. By her father. By her father. So to fire a man who lives literally at the fucking office. Who lives in the woods outside the office. Lives in the woods outside the office who is dating your stepdaughter. You gotta be a real fuck up.

He's certainly fucked up. Nepotism wouldn't even help this guy. I mean, good lord. Good old Murtaugh style fucking, nepotism won't even help him. That is wild. So now April 2005, the entire region is on pins and needles on edge because there's a guy named Steven Stanko

on the loose. I believe we've talked about Steven Stanko before. He is the subject of a nationwide manhunt and is being sought for a sexual assault and a killing in Muriel's inlet in and a killing in Conway So double murder rapists by very close by yeah ones right here and ones on the other side of it So that's right there He is charged with the murder of in the deaths of Laura Ling and Henry Lee Turner and with the rape and assault

In an attack on a 15 year old girl before he slit her throat Good guy. He attacked and raped a 15 year assault and an attack on a 15-year-old girl before he slit her throat. Good guy. He attacked and raped a 15-year-old and slit her throat. He's a very, very dangerous person out here. Absolutely, yeah. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. He's like the Night Stalker. He's like Richard Ramirez.

He'll kill a couple, he'll kill a 15-year-old. If an 80-year-old is there, he'll kill her. He doesn't care. They weren't even related. No, no, this was separate incidents. One was in Conway one was in another town. So they were in different goddamn towns, so that's everybody is like doors locked Information on the news coming up did they catch this guy yet? Because everybody's terrified keeping any if you have a teenage girl, she is locked up in the house crazy time so April 12th 2005 it's about 7 a.m. and man

Charlie Parker must go to work early because by 7 a.m. he's so late that his employees are coming to the house to look for him. 7 a.m. 7 a.m. he's so late that they're coming over. What the fuck time does he get there? So he comes to the house. It's George Carrick, the employee, and Charlie Parker Jr. who works there as well. They go to the house. They walk across the yard, basically, to the house there. And they are trying to figure out what's going on.

So Carrick said that they went into into the house and right away they looked down the hallway and then the entrance to the bedroom. Carrick said he saw Diane Parker on the floor at the entrance to the bedroom and Charlie Parker was on the bathroom floor when they went to check closer to the mother to see if she would to Diane to see if she was alive or okay. They saw Charlie in the bathroom laying on the floor and there's blood everywhere. They have holes in them. It's not great. It's disturbing.

So Carrick says, quote, little Charlie was going nuts with his dad. So I told him to get out. It was too late. Yeah. His boy found him. He said he was trying to like revive him and it was not. It wasn't. We were well beyond the point of reviving.

So he said, it's too late, man. You're just, you're just, you know, don't come in here anymore. Go outside. So he called 911 on his cell when they went outside. As they're leaving, they noted broken glass in the door from the kitchen leading into the kitchen from outside. The cold glass door is shattered. So Carrick though, the employee said, at the time I assume Charlie, meaning old man Charlie,

must have locked himself out and had to break the window to get in at some point. So he was like, oh, that must be what happened here. But it's not. So they call. Tyler Canes comes. He shows up. The Horry County police officer, which sounds like a South Carolina police officer.

Tyler Canes. He was called to the home at 853 AM. Or at least that's when he got there. So that's a lot of time to go by. He secured this crime scene, waited for investigators. Now they found Diane, like we said, shot in the entryway to the bedroom, to the master bedroom. Charlie Parker, senior in a nearby bathroom.

Diane was shot twice in the chest, once in the left arm. Gunshots. And left there. Yes. She also had a fractured collarbone and bruises all over her, by the way. So she got beat to shit probably show me where it is show me where it is is what the cops are thinking and she maybe wouldn't and so he shot her or whatever however it worked. She's found lying on her back there

Charles Parker Sr. shot twice in the abdomen and once in the face. So somebody really gets the job done. They do three shots for each person. He was found in the face. So somebody really gets the job done. They do three shots for each person. He was found in the bathroom. There were eight gunshots total fired inside the home based on the nine millimeter shell casings and bullet holes found. So eight shots, six of them connected, which is a pretty good ratio here. Police find no cash inside the home and no evidence that the Parkers fired any guns back at the intruder. Seems to be all from the same nine millimeter.

All the shells, all the casings on the ground are all from the same gun. We're taking rounds, we're not returning fire. Not returning fire, yeah. This seems like an early morning surprise here. They also, they figure that the broken glass is how the intruders came in the house because it shattered. There is a keepsake box on a dresser inside the master bedroom that was clearly rummaged through. And also there were papers inside a woman's

boot found on the bed as well. So they were originally inside a boot and the boots nearby and the papers are spread out on the bed as well. So maybe like somebody was going looking for cash and they said maybe they hide them in their boots. Oh, there's something and pulled it out and it was paper and they were like, oh, fuck this and threw it down.

Something like that. Police find though Diane's purse and Charlie's wallet on the bed with this paperwork. Yeah. So sitting right there, which is odd. They're both 54 years old, both dead. They say they're trying to figure it out sometime between 830, between the evening of April 11th and 730 AM the next morning.

They were killed. They're not trying to figure that out. So now, Carrick, the employee for MirrorTech said he spoke briefly with Bambi Bennett when she and Dicky Gags arrived a few hours later, he said. And Carrick said he was trying to console Bambi telling her that her mom did not suffer. So she didn't suffer. She was killed right away. It was very quick probably and whatever. So the killings immediately, it's stanko. Everybody's nuts. Yeah. Everybody goes, holy shit. He's I mean, block it down even harder. He's here now. Absolutely. I

mean, fear right radiates throughout this community immediately. They, he got another one here. And so that was crazy. But that same day of April 12th, where the bodies are found, Stanko is found in Georgia. Oh. And evidence says that he probably wasn't in South Carolina earlier today.

Okay. So they don't think it's him, which is a problem because they were really like we got it. It's this guy fuck him And then they found him like he's pretty far away. He could have got there though, but then they found Some evidence that he wasn't and they're like well shit that doesn't work. So now Sometime before the funeral now, this is between them the deaths of Charlie and Diane and their funerals Bambi makes attempts to sell about a hundred acres of property at this point. They're not even in the ground

yet. But she, I guess everything goes to her, she had inherited it, deeded it to her mother, and he said I guess she contacted a real estate broker indicating an interest in selling the property quickly. I want to right now. So also, Dickie gags here called his mother after the murders to ask her advice of who do you think you probably know more about this than me, mom? Who do you think is going to get control of the property now that they're dead. Bambi will have control, right? Like he's working it out like that. And then the funny thing is, Bambi, they asked Bambi about it. Bambi said, well, she only called the real estate agent

to share news about the deaths. She wasn't trying to sell anything. Meanwhile, the real estate agent was like, she wanna sell 100 acres quick. I tell a lot of people, all about my business. Everybody. So Bambi ends up getting all of it, everything. Really?

Yep. Jennifer Parker, who is Diane's sister-in-law, said that Bambi received all the property owned by her mother and stepfather after their deaths. I don't know why none of that went to- Junior doesn't get shit. Didn't get ugots, which is crazy, right? It's all Bambi.

She said that Bambi received about a total of about $700,000 from a trust fund as well in addition to the property. Bambi got paid. You're rich. Bambi got paid. Now she's got 100 acres, a house, a business, and $700,000. She's doing great. I mean, you can retire there, right? That's done.

Shit, let the business do its thing. And that's that. So Jennifer Parker there, the sister-in-law of Diane said Bambi got it all. And Parker, I guess, was in control. Jennifer Parker was in control of the estate up until this point. They had her manage shit. So then they said, she said she had to give it all over to Bambi. Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes. Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story. One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror. So when we look in the mirror, the

only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, The Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker rated ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science and religion, and how even today we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night. You can binge all episodes of the real history of Dracula exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus and the Wondria, Apple podcasts or Spotify. What happens when a hacker uncovers hundreds of murder plots targeting people all over the world? Each of them posted on a hitman for hire site on the dark web with their photos,

habits and intimate details all used against them. What happens when they learn that the threat is coming from the person closest to them? Or what is the psychological profile of a father who would murder his own son and wife all to hide a drug addiction and years of embezzlement? How do we understand the actions of the most complex and twisted minds? From cases of serial killers, relationships turned dark, to manipulative scammers preying on the insecurities of regular people. Wondry's Exhibit C is your partner in crime.

Listen to the best of True Crime by following Exhibit C on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to hit True Crime shows like Kill List and Killer Psyche early and ad free right now by joining Wondry+. Hotshot Australian attorney Nicola Gabba was born into legal royalty, her specialty representing ad free right now by joining groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created.

She just didn't know how to stop. Now through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informants Lawyer X exclusively on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify and listen to more Exhibit C, True Crime shows early and ad free right now. So Jennifer also says that there was a lot of anger between Bambi and her parents prior to the deaths. Oh.

Because the cops are talking to everybody and she says, I mean Bambi and her mom were fighting for the last 15 years essentially so. And she got everything? And she gets everything. So the police interview several people who place Bambi and Richard at the Parkers' home the night before the bodies were found. Several people said they went to the house the night before and they don't, they might have been killed the night before.

So they said that it's very interesting. They said forensic evidence was found at the Parker's home that would provide reason to believe that they, Bambi and Richard, were present at the time the Parkers were shot as well. Oh. Then they find four fresh blood droplets collected from the home where the murders occurred. From these droplets here, they send that off to develop a DNA profile. The profile doesn't match either of the victims or Dickie Gagnon. But they are able to determine this particular blood, all four of these drops belong to one

person. So they enter the profile of the unknown individual into the database in case it comes up. She'll be a hit. So people say here that Richard was mad at the Parkers. That's what all the cops are getting from everybody. Gagnon is mad. Gagnon is pissed off here. Yes. One of the people here said that Dick was asked to leave the Parkers home a few weeks before they were killed and go live in the woods and Jennifer Parker, the sister-in-law, said I think they were killed and go live in the woods. And Jennifer Parker, the sister-in-law said,

I think they were afraid of him. And they did say, Jennifer Parker did say that Gagnon doesn't receive anything from the estate, which I don't know why he would. Who will shit to their daughter's boyfriend? Some dipshit. Some dipshit. We just fired. Who just got out of prison and we fired, yeah.

So one guy employed by Coastal Glass named James Moore, he said that Richard Gagnon was quote, real angry at the Parkers because of ongoing issues involving land and child custody. Now, Mirror Tech was a subcontractor for Coastal Glass at the time. It's definitely glass. And this guy said about Dickie Gagnon, he was just real shaky he was really really angry so this is in the weeks leading up yeah it's none of his business none of this shit matters you're not married to anybody here you're not married here you have no say or title or claim to any of this shit

you lucky kids know and apparently unless they let you live here you live in a fucking tent that's the best you can provide for yourself. So Jesus Christ He said at one point here Eric sides of Coastal glass said that dick Gagnon told him and other co-workers details of the murders of the parkers Including details of how they were shot and how nothing was missing from the home This is in the last couple days following the shooting. So the employee said, I don't know why he told me. I wish he would have. I wish he wouldn't have.

Yeah, don't tell me any of this. So Richard said he learned that he only told them because he learned the details of the crime scene from a pair from George and Charlie Parker Jr. who found the bodies. Oh. He said, I heard from them. They were in there and they told me, you know, I told these people. I don't know. I don't know anything more than anyone else.

Just tell me what my girlfriend's family said. Yeah, absolutely. Now gunshot residue. They test everybody for gunshot residue. They find none on Dickie Gagnon's hands. None on Bambi's hands. They do find gunshot residue on Charlie Parker Jr.'s hands. Yes, but he has no motive for this because he gets nothing, so it makes no sense. Well, CP2s get no interest in this. No interest in this. So after all of this here,

after all of their going around, they can't get past the fact that, and we'll talk about, there's another reason here, they find a spot of blood on the bottom of one of Dick Gagnon's shoes that matches Charlie Parker's scene on the sole of his ship. So they are very suspicious from that They don't like that Richard has been telling people about the crime scene. They think that's odd They think that Bambi has all the motivation in the world here because she gets everything and doesn't have to live in a fucking tent anymore so About a week after the murders

Bambi and Richard are gonna be arrested for murder. Oh Yes, which it seems real after the murders, Bambi and Richard are gonna be arrested for murder. Oh. Yes. Which it seems real, like they don't have enough at this point to me. No, that's, just cause you've got somebody's blood, I mean, granted, I don't, I spend a lot of time with you and I like you a lot, but I don't think I have any of your blood on me.

Probably not on your shoes, I doubt it. No, I don't think I got any of your blood anywhere near me. No, nowhere near you. So that's, I mean, I mean, if you lived with someone, you'd have more blood. Well, you know, that might be your fault because you're hoarding it all. You keep it all locked away. I'm hardly ever letting any of it. So I mean, what do we want really?

Keeping it all stuffed in my body like a little bitch. So yeah, they're both arrested. They're booked into the detention center. And there we go. So now the charges, it's about two weeks after the murder, they're gonna charge them with murder and burglary as well for breaking the glass and going in. They really believe this.

Oh yeah, they released the arrest warrants and first degree burglary, two counts each of murder, and let's do this shit. So, now the reactions, people are shocked by this. This is the perfect family. Diane Parker of Georgetown, who is the sister-in-law of Diane Parker of Nixonville, said the hardest part is that it is a family member.

It's heartbreaking. We keep hoping that this isn't true, meaning that Bambi didn't kill her mother. Be one thing, a serial killer broke in and killed everybody. We can understand that. Yeah, that seems more plausible. It seems more plausible than a chick named Bambi did it. You know what I mean?

So Diane said she had not seen, this Diane had said she'd not seen Bambi for years before hearing about the arrest. But she said she knew from other people that Bambi had become distant with the family. Now a neighbor here, Bill Haynes, he lives up the road and knew Diane Parker for 30 years, said that the arrest will bring some closure in a time of fear here because of the stanko thing everybody's been shitting their pants, you know, on baited breath and everything else.

So she, this guy said, I thought maybe a murderer was on the loose out here. I don't like sleeping with a gun under my bed, but I think a lot of people were. Two people were murdered. Yeah, there was a murderer. There's a murderer there. I thought maybe a murderer was on.

Yeah, someone is a murderer. That we know for sure. Jesus Christ. So then they're still talking about though the blood that they found the four droplets don't match either Richard or Bambi or Charlie Parker Jr. Oh boy. So we have one with blood on his shoe, one with a motive and and then the other guy with gunshot residue, but the blood on the ground matches no three of these people. Four drops, missing everybody. This is, dude, if you're a cop, wouldn't you be really confused here?

I'd be mad because you can't, this ain't slam dunk for anything. No, one has motive, one has this, one has that, but none of it goes together. So it makes no sense. So the blood here, the testimony they find in a hearing here, the sled, which is the state law enforcement division agent, indicated blood found on a pair of sneakers at Gagnon's home, because they had moved to Myrtle Beach right after this, matched that of Charles Parker Sr. And a DNA expert said that the blood was found on the sole of the shoe.

Now they asked Dick, how'd you get his blood on your shoes? He said he got the blood on his shoes when he went to close the blinds to keep Bambi from seeing the blood on the floor in the bathroom where Charlie Parker Sr. was found. Oh, I was wearing these that day that I was in the house. I went in the house to get Bambi's keys in her cell phone He said sirs a cell phone that was in there

So she he said I went in there and I closed the blinds and there was blood everywhere He said quote I tried to step around it as best I could But apparently not good enough That's his story though. I went in there later on that day. What do you want? It's not a bad story I mean, it's plausible. So they're in jail here for six months. Okay. Wow.

Well, awaiting trial and they can't make bond and there is no bond. It's a no bond situation. So they do want to bond though. And there's a judge who's expecting to consider bond for the second time here. Bambi and Richard have been jailed nearly six months and so they say, hey, either move on with this or let us out, basically. So one of Bambi's relatives pleads to the judge for the bond to be rejected and says he and other family members would fear for their lives if Bambi's put out on the street.

She's going to come after us. So the prosecutors also said possible motives on Bennett's part included conflict over all this shit and you get to inherit everything. So Bennett's lawyers said child custody was not an issue between Bennett and her mother anymore. That was over. Yeah, the hatchet would sort it out. Yeah, so let them out on bond. the judge rejects bonds for both of them Here he cited Bambi's relatives fears and the fact that the prosecutors are awaiting additional test results on forensic evidence in the killings And so, you know until it's all sorted out you're staying in jail

Charlie Parker here jr. He said that's all we wanted was to keep them in jail. Okay. Well, why do you have gunshot residue on your hands, too? I mean, maybe you're out... Yeah, what guns are you firing? Were you out shooting that morning or something? Like that's... Who knows?

Weird. So, and by the way, I did that review, we did the review about the shooting in the beginning to see, to show you that... We shoot shots all the time. ...gunshots are common in this area so nobody really even notices them. So they said the they spell out the whole crime the prosecutors do. Then Tim Johnson who is Bambi's uncle and the family's the chosen family spokesperson. I'm going to tell my family right now. There's ever a tragedy that we have to speak to the media about.

I'm not your spokesperson. Pick somebody else. Those fuckers are trying to make me do it. I know it. Well, you're used to talking on shit. You know how to do that. No, I'm not family spokesperson, not doing it. I don't want to put our shit out there. Not speaking for you people. Not happening. So he said that pleaded with the judge to reject the bond saying, saying quote if she could kill her mother she will kill anyone. It's a great point. That's a good point. That's a real good point and Johnson said he and other family members would fear for

their safety which I mean I don't blame them. The bond is denied. Bambi's lawyer afterwards said I'm appalled. Eventually she will get Bond. Based on what? A lot of times, two counts of first degree murder, you usually don't get Bond. It's tough to get out of there on one count of first degree murder. They won't even let Puff Daddy out for Christ's sake on Bond. You know what I mean? I know he did bad shit, but there's not two dead people out of it.

That we know of. There are two dead people. I mean, there's Biggie and Tupac, but we're not sure if that's him or not. So Dickie Gagnon's lawyer said, I think the judge erred on the side of caution for all parties. Yeah, he does say he thinks that Dick will be exonerated

when all the evidence is available. That's what's gonna happen. The prosecutor said he was very happy the bonds were denied, and he considers both Bennett and Gagnon Both flight risks as well because they have really nothing to lose here He said there is real genuine fear and concern in that family about what might happen to them if she is released. I Mean that you think she's gonna get out like like a drooling Maniac like I'm gonna go kill my whole family now

Yeah, maybe but if you were got out on bond for murder, that would probably not be the best course of action to go kill more people. Yeah, especially if you're claiming innocent. If you're saying not guilty, and then you're gonna go out and murder a bunch of people, I think they're gonna get you on all of them. And they've already told a judge that they're afraid she'll murder them. So she's the only suspect at that point.

She's in deep shit. Like if you're her and you're out on bond, you want to like hire a bodyguard for these people, make sure nothing happens to them because otherwise they're going to blame you. So after about a month after the DNA or the bond is denied, they let Barb Bambi out of jail. They drop the charges against her. Really? They just drop them. They say there's a lack of DNA evidence

and the only evidence they have is that she's with Dick. But they don't have any physical evidence on her and they don't show enough cause to hold her. So they have to drop the charges. Judge said basically either drop the fucking charges or we're gonna do a low bond and whatever, but you don't have evidence. They kept telling the judge we're waiting

on physical evidence results, hold them, hold them. When they came in and there was nothing linking Bambi to it, they said, I mean, what are we doing here? Yeah, we need to let her go. So the prosecutor, Greg Hembree, drops the charges. He said the decision was hinged on a substance found on one of Bennett's boots that after testing did not produce a DNA sample.

So they said they thought they had blood on her boots, but no, they couldn't extract any DNA from it. They might have been blood, but they couldn't get anything out of it. Like it had been cleaned and they found it. So the prosecutor said he can reinstate the charges when more evidence materializes. So don't worry Bambi, you hang on here. Now Dickie Gags is gonna go to trial here on this.

He says he's innocent. He claims 100% innocence. He says, you fucking people are crazy. Sure, I have blood on my shoe. Sure, my girlfriend has all the motivation in the world and I'm assault police officers and I'm kind of a scumbag and I live in the woods. It doesn't make me a murderer. No, no, that makes me a murderer, pal. So in a pre-trial hearing, the defense lawyers for

Dickie Gagnon asked that items taken from Gagnon's home and his vehicle not be allowed at trial. He's trying to get evidence thrown out. So they describe him as clean shaven shackled and wearing a brown jumpsuit. Very fashionable. So during the hearing, a detective of the Horry County Police Department testifies that a co-worker of Gagnon's told him that harm should be done to the Parkers. That's what Gagnon said. Really? Harm should be done because they were interfering in Bambi's child custody and property issues. This guy also testifies. By the way, this detective's name is Livingston. That's why I didn't

say it because that would just be confusing. Not related at all. Not related to David or Bambi or any of these people. It's just they all have the same name for some reason. So Livingston testified, dammit, this cop testifies, there's quite a bit of blood found in the home, including the hallway's bedroom and bathroom. The defense attorney said search warrants obtained by police to Serge Gagnon's home and vehicle were vague and obtained information and things they obtained were not

in the police reports so they said the one guy told a man said a man told police that a white vehicle was driving around the park or home the night of the killings which is what he drives Gagnon yeah that's why that was why they got to search the vehicle is because of that and he drives a but later on because he drives a Chevy blazer a white Chevy blazer G, but later on, because he drives a Chevy Blazer, a white Chevy Blazer, Gagnon. Later on in the interview though, the man changed his mind and said, no, no, it was a van, not a Chevy Blazer. I'm pretty sure thinking about it now, I think it was a van. So we have a white vehicle. That's not a car, but van or Blazer is a white enclosed vehicle that can hold extra shit,

that can hold extra people and shit. All of this information will be allowed at trial. The judge was so they're allowing all of it in and he's shit. He's been in jail since it fucking happened here. So it's been a while. Now the trial comes up Bambi will not testify. Not because she refuses because the prosecutors decided early on not to call her to the stand because she had different versions of different stories Quote-unquote the prosecutor said So because this is amazing There's no evidence against her and she has no consistent story. So not only can they not charge her

They're not gonna even make her testify because no because that's not good. That's bad for them. She just like dumbed her way out of this somehow. Like that's good for her. While good for you, Bambi. Yeah, nice, nice work. In the openings here, the prosecutor said that Gagnon's knowledge of the crime scene was far superior to law enforcement and led police to believe he was involved. And they also that's what led them to believe that.

And the prosecutor also said that Richard made threatening statements to coworkers about the park, about the Parkers. He was so angry, he was shaking thing. And also the prosecutor says that Dick and Bambi's poor and deplorable living conditions. That's why they did this. So they could kill them to gain their estate, which is really Bambi's anyway. So the defense said, listen, my guy here, Dickie Gags. All right. I get his name's funny. We all laughed at it when we saw it telling you. He called

me. I said, get the fuck out of here. That's not your real name. It took a while to convince me. You know what I mean? He said, sure. He's a loudmouth braggart that nobody liked I mean sure he's a comp. I don't even like him. He's an asshole this fucking guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody likes him It's what he said. He's sure he's a loudmouth than an asshole that nobody liked but that doesn't mean he killed his girlfriend's mother and stepfather Makes a good point. He said that um, you know, it's crazy. He said there's been a rush to judgment here. He said the blood found at the scene doesn't match my clients or his girlfriend. So what the fuck?

He's the defense attorney said no one knows who know whose it is. And Richard is on trial because of his mouth because he ran his mouth at work, basically. So now Gagnon's own mother testifies against him. That's crazy. That's wild. You get your mom to testify against me? Against you? I don't know.

My mom goes to church now. If I fuck up, I got a feeling I'm going to have to see her on the stand. My mother would lie fucking with a smile on her face on the stand for me. He was at home. Yeah. Here's what I made him for food. She'd say the fuck out of here. I could have killed someone on her front lawn and she'd be like he was inside the whole time. That's funny. So she testifies here. Ava Mae Offerman is her name. She said that her son called her about 5.30 p.m. on April 12th, the day of the murders,

to tell her that Diane and Charles Parker Sr. were killed, but nothing was stolen from their home. She said, quote, I thought it was in very poor taste. It angered me. I hung up. I don't know why that would be in poor taste. The fact that he's talking about the things like possessions, materials that didn't happen. I guess like it's more important, but nothing was stolen. They're dead. Don't worry. Nobody stole nothing. Yeah. I don't know what's going on. She also said that Richard asked her in April 2005 who was in charge and she said she believed that meant to be who was in charge of the

Parker's estate, which included a lot of money and land. Now during cross-examination, Offerman told the defense attorney her son could have meant who was in charge of the funeral arrangements. And she also testified that to her, Richard did not own a gun. And I believe he's a felon, so he probably isn't allowed to own a gun at this point. He's not allowed to, right. Yeah, he punched a police officer that takes you out of the running for a gun. So she said, quote, he's a hothead, but give him 15 seconds and he knows what's right from wrong.

15 seconds. He'll get all pissed off, but you let him cool down, he'll be fine. As long as he counts, shit. Yeah, as long as he actually takes 15 seconds. Now, testimony about the blood is that they found blood on his shoe, and there you go. The cross-examination on the blood guy, they asked this guy if he was aware

that Richard Gagnon had returned to the Parker's home to retrieve clothing in the days after the deaths. And the blood guy said, why would I know that? They give me a sample and I test it. I have no idea what the fuck anybody's doing before that. It also revealed that none of the blood found in the Parker's home matched Richard's. This guy also testified that fingerprints found

at the crime scene were not compared to Richard's because he used to live at the home and there was a couple of days before, and he was there a couple of days before the shootings at the latest So we expect to find fingerprints of him on there Yeah, he's been in the house and they don't run any of the prints too because they have foreign blood already Already they have blood they can't explain. What if there's prints they can't explain too. Then what happens? Oh Nightmare, yeah, then you're fucked so they don't even bother testing at all. They go. I'm sure they're in there, but that's fine Now a cellmate testifies

okay from the J Ruben long detention center and This guy testifies his name is Robert Lee Mullins He says that Richard originally denied killing the Parkers when he first got to jail. Mullins said, he told me he didn't do it. I believed him at first. It changed later on. This guy testifies that Richard told him

things about the shootings and crime scene that only the killer would know. So this guy wrote a letter to alert the prosecutors about this. Mullins said he pressed Richard on the slayings, and Richard later said, quote, well, I did it. I went into a rage. So he said, I just went into a rage and I did it.

Well, you wanna know the truth, I did it. Mullins said that Gagnon was concerned about gunpowder residue on his hands, and asked, because this was before the test came back, and asked, do you think it can go through gloves? So he's saying he had gloves on during this. He also said a window was broken to make it look like a burglary.

He said, yeah, we broke this window in the beginning in the kitchen there, glass door to make it look like a burglary. And you know, do you think gunpowder residue can go through fucking gloves? This is his thing. That's a big fat no. That's probably not, I would say, yeah. Those are some shit gloves if you, if they do. Those are not going to keep your hands warm at all. So now Richard testifies on his own behalf.

He spends two hours on the witness stand one day explaining his actions. He rebutted the testimony from other witnesses that he was angry with the Parkers about land and child custody bullshit. They asked him, what about crime scene info that you know that only the killer could have known? He said that he was discombobulated upon, that's the word he used too, discombobulated upon learning of the Parkers deaths. He said it was such a mind blowing situation going on, which isn't an answer to why do

you know everything about the crime scene? What do you think he meant when he said discombobulated? He didn't mean that, right? Well, yeah. Did he? He said it's such a mind blowing situation. It's kind of like getting the wind knocked out of you. My concern was Bambi

So he said he does mean that he said I don't know how I knew all the intimate crime scene details I was too confused to know where I got it from basically Yeah, as well as to discombobulated to understand somebody told me I guess I they must have yeah who knows Then they said what about the shoes and he said he reentered the Parker's home on the evening of April 12th, which it should have still been locked down. I don't even know if it would be released by then. Think, right? To get Diane Parker's car keys and cellular phone for Bambi. She wanted her mom's stuff.

He said that he stepped in blood on the floor, which was later found on his shoes. He said that he went to the bathroom to put the blinds down. Like we said, he testifies to that though. Now he's under oath It's different. So He said yeah Bambi who was in the courtroom during most of his testimony left before he was done We know she might have to go pick the kids up or something. We have no idea

Sure. No, she's been a lot of things. She's been overwhelmed. She discombobulated. She's all discombobulated The discombobulation of dickie Gagnon, this episode should be called. So now Richard testifies that Bambi never told him to kill these people either. He said, well, did Bambi tell you? No. He told a deputy that he loved and was devoted to Bambi, but that she, quote, wasn't very popular with her family at the time of her death of the deaths. Richard also testifies that when he asked his mother who's in charge he was referring to funeral arrangements not who is in charge of the estate as well.

Then after all this they ask him a very direct fucking question. Did you kill these fucking people or not? He said, I didn't kill anybody. Which is a, that's, you know, language wise, that's the right way to say it. Because if you're innocent, you want to get that info out as quick as possible. I didn't kill anybody. And not only did I not kill them, I didn't kill anybody. Anybody.

I was watching that Ted Bundy documentary, the one where it's like a multi-parter but they're talking about his recordings in jail and all that and There's one point where he gets to Colorado when before he escapes from Colorado the second time and He is they're interviewing him about all of these murders and they're saying You know, they're saying you kidnapped this girl and they're saying you killed people here, you're being charged in Colorado, they're also talking about Washington and they're like, is any of this true? And he goes on about a three paragraph rant without saying, I didn't kill anybody.

He's like, well, I mean, that's a vague question. It's a very large question. All those people, I mean, I don't even know what I'm being accused of at this point, but no, I mean, I am an innocent man of the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He never says I didn't fucking kill it. Holy shit. Get me out of here. I escaped because they're saying I killed all these people and I didn't. And it's terrifying because I didn't fucking kill him. And they say they didn't. Doesn't say any of that. So then Gagnon looks to the jury and says, I just want you to know I didn't do this.

I was an arrogant person. I was foolish. I said a lot of ugly things. I've never disrespected Diane and Charlie. And they said, what about your cellmate? And he said, I didn't say any of that to that guy. And I don't know shit about it. Making it up.

So the closing arguments, the prosecutor here said that you know He had information far superior to that of law enforcement. It's child custody He said that Bambi and and he had nothing and Diane and Charlie had everything so everything Defense attorney Bill Grammer told the jury. Please look through the smoke and around the mirrors He told the jury that the prosecution didn't deliver details of an extensive investigation that were promised during opening arguments. He said the puzzle piece doesn't fit. OK, then you must have quit, right?

That's how it works. Don't think you must quit. So the jurors deliberate for about seven hours. So they're talking about it and they find him guilty on everything Is that right guilty of everything blood on the shoe told people they deserved it. That's good enough apparently No gun. They have no murder weapon. Nothing like that. Yeah, so sentencing comes around and Diane sister gets up there and she says she was just like my heart she said I couldn't do anything without her. And the defense attorney says, please be okay to my guy here. We think this is a verdict

based on passion, not based on evidence. Like the jury is upset that two upstanding nice people were murdered and they want to blame somebody and this guy is the guy. They're putting this guy out there. So they're blaming him, but he's not the right guy. Now Richard says to the judge this. Now, number one thing the judge wants is accept responsibility, show remorse. That's what they're looking for. Sure.

He says, I maintain my innocence. Uh-oh. He said, I don't understand a lot of what went on here. In trial? What are you talking about? We did a... He's discombobulated about trial procedures now? When is this guy not confused is what I'd like to know.

We gave you your constitutional right. What the fuck? Does he have brain damage or something? Have you ever seen an episode of Law and Order? What the fuck are you talking about? I can't, anybody nowadays, no no one can say I don't know what the hell goes on in a trial we've all seen it in every TV show we've all seen it so he says I don't understand a lot of what went on here what went on here

I'm at a loss I don't understand okay he doesn't understand a lot and then he says there's a there's a killer still out there oh is there yeah he pulls he doesn't OJ there So the judge says well that may be but you sir may fuck off life in prison without parole How about it life without and the prosecutor afterwards said that the investigation is not over Because blood was found at the scene that didn't match anyone connected to the family So they said there's still another defendant. We're looking for Richard's defense lawyers say yeah, we think that's the guy who did it is what you're we're doing here When you find that person you're gonna release my guy and

Money in the lawsuit. Oh, it's gonna be fucking big time at this but it's gonna be crazy. He's gonna be Fucking all sorts of dough here. So, 2007 now, this is right after that, the Charlotte Observer does a big giant article on Bambi. Big old article on Bambi, and it says, In the time since her parents were fatally shot, Bennett says she's seen her reputation suffer. You know, because she was accused of murder and all. Right. And her boyfriend was convicted of it. Her son's taken away from her and her health beginning to fade, but that she's ready to fight the scrutiny that has engulfed her for two years. She said, I was portrayed as a

monster to the public. It's sad that innocent until proven guilty. That's the saying, but it's not that way. People condemned me and tried to convict me from day one. Yeah. And it gets probably worse once your boyfriend is convicted. With no motive whatsoever, you know? So she said the charges, once they were dropped, she's trying to return to some normalcy in her life. She said that she picks her two daughters up from school The charges, once they were dropped, she's trying to return to some normalcy in her life.

She said that she picks her two daughters up from school and clears weeds up each weekend from her parents' grave sites. She goes and hangs out there. She said, how many weeds grow from week to week in this grave site? Probably two. Yeah, two. A little plink, plink. A fucking dandelion or something.

A couple of springs. She says she suffers mentally and physically though a lot She says she hasn't spoken to either one of her school age or high school age sons for more than a year and a half As well since she was arrested her sons won't talk wow Now I don't know if that is because their father says your mom is might be a murderer, and I'm not letting you talk to her Maybe She said there are things that were taken from me that I can never get back. Yeah, six months. She said, I've lost two years. Police and prosecutors were doing their job. It's their job to thoroughly investigate

anyone. That was their job and I would expect nothing less. But you know, she says me on the other hand, I didn't do anything. She compared then, she likened her case to that of the Duke lacrosse team. Oh, is that right? We did a bonus episode on this. Bring you up to speed quick if you don't know. The Duke lacrosse team one night had a big party at a frat house and they hired a few young ladies

to dance for them and be strippers. And the whole thing got really out of control with them fighting with them, and there was racial slurs thrown around. And at the end of the night, the ladies ended up leaving, and everybody was, everybody was none the better for this experience. The guys were pissed, they were pissed.

Much the worst, matter of fact, yeah. And then one of them said that they raped her. They basically, essentially gang raped her and held her down in the bathroom and had a very intricate story where people were arrested for it and shit like that and then it came out that none of it was true. She lied about everything. Not about the fighting out there, but lied about anything sexual assault wise was all

made up. Several years later she knifed somebody to death. And then she ended up killing somebody too. So she was a little tad bit unstable, but that's who she's comparing herself to. They go on in the article to say the burden of proof is what played a role in the length of her legal battle. That's what the prosecutor said. Prosecutor says this, quote, I think it's important to understand that there are two legal standards. Law enforcement is looking at probable cause for an arrest. Our standard to offer proof beyond a reasonable doubt in court. That's the highest standard of the law.

He goes on to basically say, if law enforcement, if it's 51%, they think you did it, you're getting arrested. But we have to be much more sure than that to take it to court, as that. So if you look to, a lot of that is the way statistics work for crime reporting. If a police department makes an arrest for a case, it's technically the murder is cleared now. Oh.

So all of them have the boards with red names or open cases, black names or closed cases. That changes a red name to a black name if you make an arrest. You release the guy the next day, that name is still black. It doesn't go back to red. Okay. So arrests are great for police statistics.

They can say we have a 70% homicide solve rate, even if they let half of those people go that they arrested in a day They could claim better stats that way So that's a little because we arrested somebody because you arrested somebody so technically two two names were cleared on this you know so Anyway Bennett though she still denies any role in the murders She wouldn't discuss details of the events surrounding the incident, but she says she was at her Myrtle Beach home on the night her parents were killed and didn't know about their deaths until after she took Richard to work the next day or that day and

the bodies were found. She said, how can I wake up and find out about my mommy and daddy like everybody else and yet I go to jail for six months? How old is she? 34. My mommy and daddy, that's a southern thing by the way. Which it's less creepy when women do it. Is it? Yeah, when I see a guy who's got a beard like you talking about my daddy, I'm like listen dude, give me a fucking break bro.

I don't like the, I just don't like the daddy. I don't like the daddy, I don't like either of them because the mommy implies I can't take care of myself. Yeah, it implies you need your butt to be scrubbed by somebody. Yeah. Your ass is going to droop on it. I would enjoy it, but I don't need it. It's not necessary, really. So yeah, she said, and they talked to Dick Gagnon here and he said, I tried to help her

and her parents get along. He's like, I didn't kill anybody, I just tried to help everybody get along. Next thing you know, we already fucking am here. So Bennett's lawyer says that she has passed two polygraph tests performed by an outside agency as well. So he's saying, stop accusing her of shit. She didn't do it, she passed polygraphs,

which they're independent ones. Just like a police one, you can pretty much, you know, polygraph tests can come out how you want it to come out. So, depending on how you phrase the questions. But yeah, she said that she regained guardianship over her two girls, but lost custody of her two boys, and she now suffers three ulcers

and undergoes regular counseling as well. Her mental and physical state have been deteriorating, she said. She said she's considered moving from the Grand Strand, where she has lived her entire life because of the scrutiny she has faced. She said, I don't want to be here anymore. This is not my home anymore. You learn who cares about you and who doesn't. It's sad that it's that way, but I will not leave until I get my sons back. I will not give up on that. Because after the apparently after

the killings, her sons were taken to Texas by their father. But the boy's father has since moved to Pennsylvania and left the two boys with Charlie Parker Jr. So now they're with neither of their parents. They're just with their uncle here. So that's interesting. They're half uncle. So she says that she hasn't spoken to either of the boys since October 2005 when she was released from jail. She wants custody and worries that members of the Parker family with whom she hasn't

been close to for some time have turned the boys against her. So by now they're saying what a piece of shit I am, which is a fair thing. I mean, yeah, your boyfriend's convicted of this and you're free. So he wouldn't just do that. He didn't get anything. Yeah. All the whole family thinks the same thing. They all think that they did this shit together. Bambi got lucky and didn't have any evidence against her and he didn't turn on her and that's just the way it is.

So she says that family has never accepted me, meaning stepdad's part of the family, which I mean they met her when she was a teenager so that'd be hard too. So 2018, she is trying to get the babies back is what she's doing. I need my babies. So they need their mommy.

So boys have not been living with her forever and she's trying to get them back, trying to rebuild shit here. Her son's father, Alexander Young, appeared in court to ask to be removed from consideration for custody. He doesn't want it. Okay. Can you believe that shit? Imagine going to court and going, take me off the list of people that want these kids because I don't. Wow. They said that it'll likely be several months before hearing is scheduled. They said they're in the discovery process. The bench trial could be six months away. The boys who are at this point, 15 and 17, it's going to be a moot point pretty soon if you don't make a decision soon.

Especially one of them. I mean, the other one's got a couple more years but one of them's almost done. The one's going to be married with three kids by the time they decide where the fuck he has to live. He's going to be like, I already have a house with my wife. This is crazy. I've got a mortgage. I've got a mortgage right now. So that's how that's going on. And 2009 comes around now. Okay, 2009 and there's a little oh shit moment here. A DNA match comes in on the four blood drops and it has led to police to a second suspect in more than a four year fucking ordeal this is.

The DNA belongs to a 24-year-old man. Who's he? Named Bruce Antoine Hill. What'd he do? Well, they found out that his DNA matches because he's currently, at this moment in time when this is going on, serving a sentence at the Northeast Correctional Complex

in Mountain City, Tennessee here. He's serving a sentence for a home invasion in Tennessee. That sounds familiar here. Not only that, in that incident he's charged with assault and battery with intent to kill, armed robbery, and first-degree burglary. Now they are also investigating a home invasion at 301 Sun Colony Boulevard in Longs where on October 17, 2006, they found a rubber glove and extracted DNA from it and that is also matched to Bruce Antoine Hill.

What is going on? Let's see, they notified, the state notified Horry County detectives that the DNA from that homicide and DNA from the home invasion wore a match and then they had they took his DNA sample when he was jailed matched it up and then matched it up to the Parker's murder as well. So they're going to charge him with two counts of murder and one count of first degree burglary because there's a blood match.

I mean, right. Why the fuck you bleeding dude? You know, like what the hell bleeding somebody else's house? Yeah, I've never been in there. My blood is in very few houses. It really is. Especially strangers. you bleeding dude you know like what the hell. You're bleeding somebody else's house. Yeah I've never been in their house. My blood is in very few houses. It really is. Especially strangers.

Really in your house. Yeah strangers. There's very few strangers with my blood in their house. Now he has convictions in South Carolina that include common law robbery which I have no idea what that is. Common law robbery. Stealing shit from your live-in girlfriend that you've been together a long time. I don't know stay in this house too long

Unmarried hubbery and you steal from it. Then he stepped it up to strong-arm robbery. Okay. Yeah with threats drug possession Also domestic violence two different counts of that a first offense criminal domestic violence and a second offense criminal domestic violence. So he's a he's a charmer this one boy. He's only 24. He's already done all this. And he's 10 years younger than Richard. Let's show like how does he know Richard? What's up with that? So he is from Tabor or Tabor Tabor City, North Carolina. And he's in the middle of serving a seven-year prison sentence after he pleaded guilty to robbery and conspiracy to commit aggravated

robbery. So they're saying how he will be tried once the sentence there is up. He'll be tried in South Carolina. Big question, how are this guy and Richard connected? How do they know each other? That's the big deal. Now, at this point, the prosecutors refuse to describe any association between Richard and Hill before the crime, but they say that Hill's charges will have no effect on Richard's

conviction. They say, we're saving all that for court. The prosecutor said Hill's charges and trial won't impact shit. They asked Hill, okay, how do you know this guy? Would you do how that happened? And Hill said, I don't fucking know that guy. Never seen him. And they said, the first, he said,

the first time I saw that guy is when you showed me his picture, I don't fucking know that guy. Don't know him from Adam, never met him before. Don't know him. So they're like, that's impossible. Two people don't kill someone together who don't know each other, basically. Good point.

So in Hill's trial here, later on, they're gonna talk about that he was, the way he got caught was, or before he got pulled over at one point in Myrtle Beach in April of 2005, okay, which is when this all happened. He's in the area. He got pulled over at a traffic stop on Ocean Boulevard along with a man in the car named Khalil Moore Moore who is later identified as a former employee of Charlie Parker's Mirror Tech business.

Oh. So that's the connection they have is this guy knows both of those guys. Right. So that's that's their connection here. In the Pacific Ocean halfway between Peru and New Zealand lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little-known British territory called Pitcairn, and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still have urgent. It just happens to all of them. I'm journalist Luke Jones, and for almost two years, I've been investigating a shocking story

that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+.

Join Wondery+, in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of a beloved wife and mother. But this tragic loss of life quickly turns into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her. And she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the internet is the Kill List, a cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses and specific instructions for people's murders.

This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger. And it turns out, convincing a total stranger someone wants them dead is not easy. Follow Kill List on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Kill List and more Exhibit C Truecrime shows like Morbid early and ad free right now by joining Wondry+. Check out Exhibit C in the Wondry app for all your Truecrime listening. They said that Moore is the only known person to link Bruce Hill to Richard Gagnon. So that's their trying to work on all that for core.

Now 2011 Hill is ordered to supply more DNA samples. They want more because they just need more area to test. Yeah, it'll certainly fix things up if we've got a lot of it. When you test stuff it goes away. So you have to, yeah. We need a supply. They have to put like liquids and different like shit in it. So these samples will be compared to these other blood samples

to make sure it's him. The judge said, ruled that they could take more blood, said there's more than sufficient probable cause. Hill's attorney, Ron Hazard, that's what you want your attorney's name to be. Guy named Hazard. Guy named Hazard as in dukes of, objected to the samples being collected because samples

already had been provided and apparently the paperwork regarding those samples was lost so they needed more samples. Oh, okay. Like, you fuckers, you can't even keep shit in a filing cabinet, you're not going to stick my client again and they said, oh yeah we are, we're going to definitely stick them. Just give us more of your blood. We're going to take a whole bunch. The defense attorney said they have not met the standards necessary and the judge said yes, they fucking have go ahead

Stick them up. So the trial comes around the jury and this includes alternates 12 men and two women There are 12 women and two men. Sorry Including the two alternates was selected one of the women was dismissed after she after she told the judge She knew about the case and so they replaced her with an alternate. Prosecution in the openings here. Okay. Prosecutor said, it's clear it is two murders. It's clear it was burglary. The only thing left is who did these things. That young man over there is the one who did these ghastly deeds. Sure did. Ghastly.

Yeah. That sounds fucking downright demonic. He's doing- Dastardly, yeah. Ghastly is like, you know, oh my God, he like removed all their organs and hung them from the ceiling or something. So the defense here, he said that this guy doesn't know this couple and never went to their house.

Couldn't have been him. Don't know how his blood's there, but but you know he told the jurors during opening statements that nothing of value was taken from the home even though there were valuable items in the home and he's like my guy's a burglar he knows how to steal. He takes shit. He will take shit. He told the jurors that nothing of value is taken and evidence is expected to show he said I'm going to show you that Hill has never been to this home didn't know the Parkers, and the papers were rummaged through inside the house as if someone was looking for paperwork,

which why would a stranger look for paperwork? Also good point. Strangers look for cash and jewels. But I thought possibly someone went in the boot looking for cash because people might keep cash in their boots, you know what I mean? Just a thought, I don't know. Well, it's a common thing for people to put money in their shoe in the closet. That's what I mean? Just a thought, I don't know. Well, it's a common thing for people

to put money in their shoe in the closet. That's what I mean, so they might've thought. It's been done for years and years and years. And like a tall boot might be harder to get in there, so who knows? Now, the defense attorney said, the truth is always consistent in every respect. It's my hope that you have the courage

to follow that oath no matter where the information leads you, because the truth is always consistent. It's my hope that you have the courage to follow that oath no matter where the information leads you because the truth is always consistent. Yes. So don't be dishonest please is what he's telling you. The truth doesn't lie. He said and he also says that the prosecutor offered him a deal with a sentence recommendation of 35 years in prison even, not even life without parole. Okay. And he said, my guy took a deal in another case,

he'll take deals. He says, but not if he didn't do anything. He said, he has always and still to this day, rejects their offer. Okay. Rejects it. So the trial's gonna focus on the blood drops obviously. That's really the only information they have.

No one saw him there. One of the police officers said, the blood that was here was out of place and it occurred in the same time frame as when these people were shot. The defense does not present any witnesses or evidence to the jury. They go, I don't think they made their case. Which is a thing a lot of defense people will do this sometimes as like a statement like well they didn't make their case I don't even have to present one. Yeah yeah. My case will be closing arguments basically. Take my coat off and flex and walk out of here. I just do you think that's like there's a

certain psychological thing to it where you'd go, yeah, I mean, well, if he's going to depend at all on that, then, you know, sure, I'm sure it's fine, you know, but something about that also, psychologically, if you're a juror and you saw one person or one side for a week, present all this stuff and put witnesses up and question them and show evidence and introduced exhibits and all this shit. And the other side goes, I'm good. I don't know, nothing. Doesn't that seem like? It seems it's overly confident

and it's very short-sighted. As a juror, I'm going, really? That makes you weigh the evidence a little more, but as like a, if I was the defendant, I'd be like,? Yeah, that makes you weigh the evidence a little more but as like a if I was the defendant I'd be like say something motherfucker Yeah, do something for somebody. He's sitting that back. They're going we're gonna show that they didn't even make their case They didn't fucking present their case I just think that's a if there's you can't do that if there's blood evidence on your if there's DNA Yeah, you better say you better talk you better fucking explain that you better bring an expert up there to say how that could be messed up.

You better do something. If it's all circumstantial, you can go all they proved was that my client knew these people or whatever, but they didn't prove he killed him. That's another story. But this is different. So in the clothing or in the closings here, the prosecutor said there's no question, no doubt it was Bruce Hill's blood in that house. Bruce Hill was in that house at the time the Parkers were burglarized and killed.

He wasn't the focus of the investigation at the time. We know we have a guy. We didn't know who he is. And that's why he kept or that's why they kept running the blood sample in the national database. He told the jurors it was unclear what caused Hill to bleed inside the Parkers home because we didn't see him for four years. So it's not like we could see wounds on him. But he said he was in a vehicle stop later on. And that's when the

man who works for the Parkers was in there. So they said it is Bruce Hill's blood that ties tries out the truth. It is the bodies of Charlie and Diane Parker that cries out for justice. So there you go. The defense Said hey Don't jump to conclusions. Come on Just based on DNA don't jump to conclusions here He said that you know about the case because the 11th hour connection of a former worker to this Richard Gagnon guy This is crazy. What are we talking about here?

He said no one else mentions him. There's no documentation, but suddenly he's a close personal friend of the family. Okay. He didn't come up till now. They're saying now that's the end right there. But it's very logical that maybe that guy said, hey, these people, I know their house because I

worked there and that their house is on the same property as the fucking business so I've seen they have nice shit in their house we should pass the house on my way to my job yes that's what I mean so that would make sense that he would might tell Hill that look if you're looking for a good place to rob I know of a place it's rural it's know, all this shit. So that's how that's how that goes. Um, he also, the, the, uh, defense attorney tells the jurors at the blood samples taken from the Parker's home were not put into Ori County police evidence until seven days after the slayings. So he's saying that there's a chain of custody problem, much

like in the OJ trial, they made a very big deal of the fact that Van Adder brought OJ's shoes home with him for the night and then brought them to the station the next day. So seven days is a very long time to enter blood into the heavens. The problem is it doesn't, no matter what, even if it sits out in the sun if a fox licks it it doesn't turn

Yeah, someone else's blood into your blood. That's the difference though So but it does look like it maybe is a sloppy investigation And it what it also looks like is he could have taken that and gotten somebody else gotten his blood You know, you know what I mean? Yeah. If there's blood, so if there's a sample of his somewhere, if it's not at the police station and entered in, he could have been somewhere searching for it. That's totally. And this guy makes a great point though. He says, look, they fucked up on the paperwork. We had to give them more samples. Then before that, he said it took seven days for them to enter the scene samples into

the database he says these samples were incorrectly cataloged as being from the scene because this is blood from somewhere else from another crime scene and they said that they have it mixed up it's not my guy was not there this is fucking crazy he also said to remember a medical examiner's testimony that no hair from an African American person was found on the Parkers during the autopsy because Bruce Hill is black yeah and he's got long dreads and shit oh so they're like they didn't find any black guy hairs fuck yeah it's being ripped out of your head I would assume so and he said that the look at he he then pointed to his client and said, look at him.

He's got long dreadlocks halfway down his back. He said he probably hasn't had a haircut since childhood, which is a funny line. He said, look at him. I must take forever to grow that with them curly little hairs y'all got. Look at how those things kink together like a sheep that ain't had been shorn in a while. Jesus, look at it.

You can just tell. He said, I don't know about you, he said, but I'm going to have a handful of hair if I'm fighting for my life. Because he said Diane had bruises. Bruises all over. Like she's been beaten. Why wouldn't she? Because he said these dreads go all the way down, halfway down his back, they're swinging all around.

You would grab on to one of those. You'd at least have a dreadlock in your hand when the cops found you. But he said that I'm fighting for my life. He said nothing like that found here. What's up with that? So this goes to the jury, and two hours of deliberation go by,

and he is found guilty of two counts of murder and first degree burglary. Wow. Now, I find it, to me, the weird part is, to have both these guys convicted of the same crime and have literally never. Get tied together, man. You've never put them in a room together.

Yeah, right. Other than this room. Which is like, people who don't know each other generally don't commit enormous grand scale crimes together. They don't crime together. Yeah. And they don't murder together because they don't know each other and they don't know to trust each other.

Yeah, the guy, what was it? Who's going to say that once he's done killing them, he's not going to turn and kill you too? And there's that too. You don't know this person. It's not like it's your buddy or some shit. So the sentencing comes in, you, sir, may fuck off life without parole again. So they got two, life without parole, then 30 years in prison for the burglary charge

as well. Okay. And those sentences run concurrently. So life without, essentially. Now the prosecutor said this during his closing argument, and this is something he said later on too, the truth is a very stubborn thing. It is a good thing the truth is a stubborn thing because sometimes it takes time for the truth. In this case, it took four years for the truth to break out of its shell He said that

He thanked all the DNA people He said this case would not have been solved without the DNA technology and the national database and all that He said it's rewarding to get the second part of the car Parker case Concluded both of those responsible have been held accountable So a lot of people go does this mean the other guy's innocent? No. That's the main question in town. They're like, what's going on?

And the prosecutor said, no, no, no, no. Au contraire, the opposite. He said this conviction makes the case against Richard stronger because he had told a jail cellmate that another person was with him at the time of the murders and that that person left Blood in the house. Yeah Peace out deuces bitches. I'm out see around guys. I win. He said if anything it supports the conviction. Oh Richard Gagnon's lawyers have a different view of it though They say we we need a new trial here, motherfuckers,

if that's gonna be a part of this shit. He's asking for a new trial based on evidence linked to another man also convicted. His attorneys say there was too little physical evidence and prosecutors relied on the testimony of jailhouse snitches, which we found out are very unreliable on this show. Yeah, it depends on what they need.

That's the thing. They always get something for testifying. So if you're in jail and you wanna get your shit lowered and you just hear somebody talking or you wanna make some shit up, you have no motivation not to. Yeah, jailer, I need somebody to talk to because that guy just said some shit that can help me.

Yeah, other than not wanting to be thought of as a snitch, but if you're looking to get out of jail, you don't give a fuck what those people think about you in there. So they said that, obviously the blood was a big deal, but they said it was from the keys, what the fuck? Then 2013 comes around. Okay. Robert Bob Dudek here, Richard's

appellate attorney, files a post-conviction motion here for a new trial, presenting a former inmate and preacher at the Murrell's Inlet Community Church named Robert Troy Taylor. Now Robert Troy Taylor is a link between Richard Gagnon and the guy who the cellmate who testified against him. He's the guy in the middle of that knows both of them here. This Taylor, Robert Troy Taylor, claimed that he met Mullins, the testifying cellmate, in the prison chapel of the Evans Correctional Institution and that Mullins told him that he had fabricated his testimony in Richard's hearing. Oh.

Taylor and Richard were in a Bible study group in prison in 2012 and frequently played cards together. This is the guy who just came forward now and Richard. During one such card session, Richard recounted how the guy that testified against him, his testimony played the whole role in his conviction. I mean, without that, all they have is a spot of blood on a shoe that's easily explained. And so Taylor said he was able to piece together what happened and, you know, from that. So it turns out here, Taylor, who, by the way way is also serving a life sentence in South Carolina, life without.

So yeah, at least he's got no motivations, maybe a better food or something. He said he was in the same jail as Mullins and that Mullins told him at least four times between 2006 and 2007 that he lied and that Richard was wrongfully imprisoned because of it. And he felt bad. That's why he was telling this guy. He was like, felt repentant. And he said he wanted to come forward.

Taylor, this guy who comes forward, said he wanted to come forward with this info sooner because it's 2013. He was told this in 2007, but he didn't want to be labeled a snitch, he said. Okay. He didn't want to be labeled a snitch. So that's a big deal.

Taylor said that he had put the whole thing out of his mind. Is he, he didn't know Richard at the time when Mullins was telling him that he made this whole thing up and sent a guy to prison. So this Richard was just this fictional, not fictional, but theoretical guy. Right. I don't know this fucking guy. What do I care? Then he said he put the story completely out of his mind until 2012 when he met Richard at the Lee Correctional Institute and talked to him and figured out that this is the guy that this guy was fucking talking about.

Based on what Richard was telling him, I'm in jail because this guy testified against me. I didn't say any of that shit, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, Mullins? Oh, fuck, that's the guy. Uh-oh. So he said after a while, Taylor said he couldn't stand to see an innocent man stay in prison if he could do something about it.

His conscience finally got to him. You don't belong here. I do, but I can't have you doing what I'm doing. I did bad shit to be here. Yeah, I deserve this shit. So William Grammer, Gagnon's attorney, also said in a statement that he and other defense lawyers would have handled the cases very differently had they known about this new evidence. Like, this would have helped out a lot.

They ruled, a judge rules that Taylor's testimony, meaning this new guy, is new evidence and meets the criteria for a new trial. Oh. He said that's huge evidence. If that was known about in the appeal, then this would have been a totally different appeal. His first appeal would have been completely different if we knew about this shit. So they said that actually meets the everything.

He said Mr. Taylor's testimony was discovered after trial and could not have been discovered before trial in the exercise of due diligence because of the dates that Taylor was imprisoned with Mullins and Gagnon. So, yeah, it was impossible. He couldn't have been there for trial because he didn't even know Richard yet. So the court finds the testimony to be material because it squarely attacks the credibility of a major piece of evidence in the case's state or the state's case used against Richard. And because it's the only testimony of this type existing, it's not merely cumulative and impeaching. So he will get a new trial. Judge Steven John gives him a new trial here. They give credit to Gagnon's appellant attorney. They're like, man, nice

job there. One of the attorneys said Bob Dudek, who represented Mr. Gagnon in the Court of Appeals, did in my opinion a brilliant job of bringing evidence to light that did not come out in trial. And it was the type of evidence that made it clear that he was not the one that committed the crime. Now the prosecutor said here that the standard for police to arrest someone is lower than that. And the jury should have, if he's innocent, the jury would find it. He's basically saying, these are the, we have these fail safes in our system of the police can arrest you, but then the jury,

the prosecutor needs more evidence to take you to court, and the jury needs even more than that to convict you. So it should be fine. He says his office isn't going to do anything that isn't on the up and up and doesn't plan to, never will jerk people around just to jerk them around. We don't put people in prison just to put them in prison, he says.

So Bambi says she hopes this hearing will bring out the truth about who killed her parents. She thought Richard did this the whole time. Right. Even though he still might, we don't know. So Bambi said it was like a nightmare. It's like you're dreaming and you're going, please let me wake up. I just couldn't believe it was happening. Something was really wrong.

There are no words. It was horrible. So the convictions here in 2013, the uh, so new trial is granted and the conviction is going to be vacated as well. Okay. Now February conviction is going to be vacated as well. Okay. Now February 2013, Richard with a retrial pending, is they're gonna try him again, they said. Yeah. He, they say that he can be released on $50,000 bond, they tell him.

Okay, pending a trial. Yes, so they asked that the prosecutors and Gagnon's appeals attorney here, I guess they want him to, they agree on a person or law enforcement agency that Gagnon will check in with. So the prosecutor says if he makes bail, we got to figure out some way for him to check in. How are we going to keep track of him? He said, I want someone to lay eyes on him.

That's my concern. I don't want him to just disappear. So yeah, when questioned here, they said that the case wouldn't be called for at least eight months and it would be about three months before he would decide if the case would move forward for the prosecution. So it's going to be a while here. They said that the judge told the prosecutor she wanted an update in April if Gagnon will be retried and, and when, if he is, and if Gagnon has not posted bond at that time, she will reduce his bail to a personal

recognizance bond. Like, you don't start the retrial, we're not going to keep this guy locked up if you don't have anything, basically, which is nice. So the defense attorney had submitted two affidavits from people who offered to house Gagnon and help him obtain, obtain employment if he's released on bond. Those people who live in a beach town in Horry County and Pennsylvania, but they're not identified during the hearing. The DUDEC, the appeals attorney, said, I've done this for 23 years. Richard Gagnon is one of only two clients I thought were truly innocent. Is that right? Wow, that says a lot about your, so.

Yeah, you got a lot of faith in the, in the, a lot of people. Wow. So basically, your job for all this time has been to try to get people out of jail who you thought were guilty. Yeah. That's a shit job. That sucks. And putting a lot of faith in the people that put that person there.

Yes, absolutely. The whole judicial system. That's fucking crazy though to be like. Truly, yeah. Two. Two. So you couldn't do that job if you only defended people you thought were innocent because there'd be two in 23

years. He'd have two clients. He'd make more money just working at Dairy Queen until then. Every 12 years you have one guy that's innocent. That's nuts. That's crazy, man. But this lawyer said that he's been jailed for eight years. He said, I really think that's a travesty of justice.

Gagnon told the judge that he could adjust to being outside of prison again, if given the opportunity. He said, in eight years, I've had no write-ups. I've had no issues where I had to be restrained. My mind is sound. I'm just ready to please go home. Please get me the fuck out of here, this sucks.

Diane's sister though, Carolyn Chapman, who testified against him at the sentencing hearing, said that told the judge she's concerned that if released on bail, Richard's going to flee. She said, I know with everything in me, he's guilty. Um, and then her brother, Diane ladies brother said that it would be difficult for authorities to keep track of Gagnon if he's allowed to go all the way to Pennsylvania. He said, we just think he should stay here at the beach until the new trials starts, which sounds lovely.

It does, yeah. That sounds like you don't hate him at all. Sounds like you really like him. Yeah. Imagine if someone said to you, you got this bad thing coming up. I really just think he should stay at the beach until that happens. I'd really just, I'd love you to just stay at the beach till all the stressful shit flows over. So 2014 Hill, Antoine Bruce Hill here, he is going to appeal his conviction. And part of it is did the circuit court error when it

prohibited any mention of the prior conviction of Richard Gagnon because none of that shit was allowed. These cases were tried totally separately on totally different like theories of the crime basically so you couldn't try these people together. So the he wasn't allowed to mention that another person has been convicted, which seems like a big point for the defense. Well, you think my client did it, but you all have already convicted a person my client's never met before. So how does that work? They think somebody did this alone, and they've already done that. They've already convicted the man.

He's serving life without. I'll show you the court docs where they talk about him being alone the whole time when he's in there What the fuck so the they say the appellant contends that the circuit court erred in holding that evidence of Gagnon's Convictions was irrelevant appellant argues that he should have been allowed to present Testimony or evidence regarding Gagnon's involvement in and conviction of the same crimes He contends that he was prejudiced because he was denied the opportunity to show the state's inability to connect him to Gagnon. The appeals court says they disagree.

They said the admission of evidence is within the discretion of the trial court and will not be reversed absent a prejudicial abuse of discretion. So unless they let evidence in on purpose just to fuck him, you can't do it. It was all a judge's sound decision at the time. They said the appellant misconstrued the circuit court's ruling and as a result failed to present any evidence of Gagnon's third party guilt. Appellant misconstrued the circuit court's ruling and as a result failed to present any evidence of Gagnon's third party guilt. Consequently, he's unable to show prejudice from the court's suppression of Gagnon's convictions,

is what he says. The ruling regarding the immiscibility of the conviction was, I will allow you to examine the witnesses about whether somebody else is present, there's somebody else involved in the matter, what the evidence shows, but I will not allow you to bring up that some other person has been convicted,

because that would, in the court's estimation Lessen the jury's obligation and lessen in their minds their responsibility to treat this matter separately Basically, he's saying that you know if if they hear another person's been convicted then they're gonna go well I mean someone's in jail for it if it's not a slam dunk fuck it this guy can go someone's serving time anyway Yeah, but I mean if another person convicted you gotta say they were both there then. That's the thing to me if I'm the judge I mean I get it's the legalities of it of you can show that A and B are both guilty even though A and B weren't in the same room if you try A and B separately and that's somehow legally standing, which it shouldn't be. You should have to show

logic, you know? There's no logic in that decision whatsoever. Doesn't make any sense. So they said the court's ruling permitted evidence that Gagnon had been involved in the crimes, but not that he had been convicted of the crime. So they could have said there was another guy with blood on his shoe. A guy who I don't know had blood on his shoe, but he can't say that he's been trying to convicted already, right? But he but I guess they said that he didn't Didn't do they didn't they said the court didn't prevent the appellant from presenting the evidence that gag non committed the crimes or Evidence that both law enforcement and the solicitor had investigated and arrested and tried Gagnon. You just couldn't say convicted.

They're saying that their legal team misconstrued the ruling to mean that you can't mention him at all and they didn't. Oh, so it's their fault, not ours. Yeah, he's saying it's your defense attorney that fucked this up, not us here. So that was 2013. 2014, Bruce Hill appeals his sentence again, but he is denied again on this count. So it's tough. So April 23rd, 2015, Richard's charges are finally dropped. Really? Finally.

His case is dismissed April 23, 2015, though it can be presented before a judge anytime in the future under a new docketing system in place. The prosecutor said he decided to dismiss the charges with the option to file them again on Richard. He said, I dismissed it without prejudice and we can always bring it back if we need to. I met with the victim's family and they understand. We promised them we will keep working on it. We will always, we can always recharge if need be. From our standpoint, it's a bookkeeping thing. We can always recharge. Who gives a shit?

Yeah. Under a new docketing system, he said, old cases can be taken before a judge who can dismiss them. If that that happens the cases are dead But Richardson says his move prevents that so he's blocking him from having it dismissed by a judge He said if more evidence comes to light the charges against him can be restored here And that'll happen and they said they can bring back charges against Bambi if they want So Richardson explained that when the case is older it can be brought before a judge to review and the judge can dismiss it But he wasn't comfortable with the evidence at the moment to retry Richard and he's trying to find more evidence they they

They said quote the prosecutor said he's worked with us meaning gag non and his attorney. He's met with us several times We've tried to get to the bottom of it. I'm not comfortable with the evidence to retry him It's no fault of the defense or the state." He met with him several times that he keeps denying it. And they're like, well, if you're just going to keep denying it, then we can't work on anything. He then said, certain stuff has got to come through. I don't like when a prosecutor uses the word stuff when talking about life without parole. Why does it all say shit to me in that? Certain shit has got to come through.

I trust that more than stuff. No word sounds more like an 11-year-old is saying it than stuff. I don't know why. Certain stuff has to come through. Legally speaking, stuff. From a statutory standpoint, stuff. Stuff. Legally speaking, stuff. From a statutory standpoint, stuff. Yeah. Has got to come through.

We don't control the timing of it. So I don't think it's a misrepresentation that it's going to take it off the stove. We'll keep an eye on it. This metaphorical pot that's boiling. But it won't be on any of the burners right now. Yeah, he's got a whole metaphorical stove popping off now he's I'll put it to a simmer for a bit now put it on a warmer he said I've got my files we're not doing away with any of the evidence or anything like that so under the current situation neither

man can get his charges expunged or have his file destroyed and the prosecutor said, we wouldn't agree to anything like that. So they said the charges to be clear have not been expunged, but Richard is a free man with no requirement to report to a bail bondsman or anything like that. He can do whatever he wants because technically he's free. So they say he maintains a real low profile. And Richard's lawyer said his words to me were, I feel blessed. And maybe it's that simple for him. Richard in prison found religion and got into it big

time. All good for him. And so he could use it. This guy is, he needs it. You know what I mean? And yeah, so he said he's doing much better. He goes to church and all this shit and please leave him alone basically. 2017, Bruce Hill appeals again. He asks for a new attorney in his application. That's what he wants. But they said, get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, your attorney's an idiot, but there's a lot of dumb attorneys. Your blood's on the floor, fuck off. Yeah, your blood's at the house, man. I don't know what to tell you about that shit. He is presently or was in the late 2010s incarcerated at Broad River Correctional Institution in Columbia, South Carolina. Now 2021, as per a report, Richard had settled in on the Carolina coast and he got married and has children of his own now.

Oh boy. Richard fucking got out and started a family. Wow. Reason to keep him out of trouble. Holy shit, now Bambi, okay, Bambi's on Instagram, everybody. Yeah. And she thinks that, she definitely thinks that she can communicate with ghosts.

Oh boy. Yeah. Bambi's a ghost whisperer is what she is. Bambi's a party. Oh yeah. On her Instagram it says her name and then says, wife, mama, nana, paranormal investigator. She's a nana. A nana.

Which I mean, Christ, she had kids and yeah, the the kids are in her 30s, so that makes sense. In the 50s? She was born in 71. 71. You know, she's 53 years old at this point. Makes sense. How old? 53, if it's 71?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, 53. So yeah, she has 934 followers, though, so not a ton of people are buying her shit. She's doing all right. She has almost as many posts as followers. Okay. 891 posts 934 followers. That's not great. Oh

That's a lot now Diane is And both she and Charlie are buried at the Hillcrest Cemetery in Conway there. I think they're buried together They are I've seen their stone buried together. Now here's the part I'm glad we have time for because I wanted to get to this. The other Richard Gagnon's that are murderers. This is crazy. There's like multiple guys.

If your name is Richard Gagnon, you might kill somebody. Murder's gonna be, it's gonna touch your life. I don't know, it's because everybody picked on you? I guess. Your entire life? How do you have Dick and I don't know, it's because everybody picked on you? I guess. Your entire life? How does someone, how do you have Dick and Gag in your name and have no one pick on you? Like it's gonna happen.

Yeah, it's impossible to sidestep that. Now there's a guy in Vermont, a murderer up there, who I thought we talked about him. That's how the Gag-non name popped into my head. I think we talked about the Vermont guy. He killed people at a co-op thing Anyway, there's another guy in Texas named Richard Gagnon Who in November of 2013 as all of this shit was going on and bubbling if you search Richard Gagnon

It pops up everywhere for murder all different murders in November of 2013 He killed Brent writer with a 12 a 12 gauge shotgun to the chest. My Christ! In the affidavit, Gagnon claimed that he shot this guy to protect himself and his mother. He's like in his early 20s. He said when the guy started walking toward him, he closed his eyes and pulled the trigger. However, the sheriff's office obtained the arrest warrant said that Gagnon did not see this guy ever hit his mother, only heard it from the bedroom.

What difference does it make? The beating's a beating. I don't care if I have to see it or not. It's a witness, right? The affidavit stated that the woman didn't have any visible injuries other than a small abrasion under her right eye. You know, an injury. He only punched her once in the face.

She didn't have any injuries except for that injury. To her eye. It's a dumb thing to say. You could say she had one injury. In addition, the affidavit stated that Ryder lived at the residence and there was no previous history of Ryder assaulting this guy's mother. Conversely, there is a history of this guy, Gagnon, assaulting his mother. There's been multiple police interactions for him assaulting his mother,

not this guy assaulting his mother. Oh my God. So in the opening statement in court, the prosecutor told the jury that this Bret Meider, writer guy moved in with Gagnon's mother after Gagnon's father died. He said at some point, Deborah Gagnon told this writer guy that she did not want him doing drugs while her son Richard was at the house.

Just don't smoke crack in the living room while my son's here please. The prosecutor told the jurors that an argument resulted and Richard Gagnon claimed he saw this man hit his mother and that's when Richard shot the guy. Martin the prosecutor continued and said that Gagnon's story changed each time he talked with a different detective. He would completely have a new story to tell. Oh, I'll try this one out on you. He said when Detective Ricky Childress got on the scene, Gagnon said he went in the room

to tell Ryder to stop and his Mom said shoot so I shot He continued and said in a third statement Gagnon said there was an argument and it was an accident and then in a fourth statement Gagnon once again changed his statement to something else. Yeah, whichever one benefits me best. That's what happened What do you guys think you've heard all four? What do you guys think is best for me? What who which one was most believable to you guys think you've heard all four? What do you guys think is best for me? I have to say it's the best draft. What? Who? Which one was most believable to you guys? Let's put it that way. He told the jury that they will see evidence that shows Gagnon shot rider at close range through the upper chest with a 12 gauge.

He said it's important to make sure the story lines up with the physical evidence. I don't think the statements made by Richard Gagnon are true. The defense attorney said that just because Richard Gagnon had done some bad stuff in the past doesn't mean he committed a crime in this particular instance. But prior bad acts are literally how they... That's kind of part of it, yeah. Kind of part of it. His defense attorney claimed it was self-defense.

He said he knew Ryder was a bad guy. He knew Ryder was dangerous, on drugs, and that day he was on drugs. Add all that together and you have a bad situation. He was in defense of his mother. Sure. One detective here said that he first met Richard Gagnon when he was brought in for a burglary charge in August of 2013.

Separate, totally separate thing. Yeah. This cop said, he asked me if I could help him. I said I could help. I said I could if he could help us on some cases. So this guy said that he knew Richard Gagnon didn't like Ryder when he moved in. The cop said he was concerned. When this guy was around, all his mom did was drink and get drunk. He didn't like that. He thought he might be on parole and was not checking in with his officer. So he was saying that

writer it's your mom's business if she wants to drink with this guy though. You're an adult move out of the house. So they said that it took time for Richard Gagnon to get a full ID on him. He said that he couldn't not get him until he knew for sure that he had a warrant. The cop said meaning meaning the guy. I guess Richard was finally able to get a pay stub. The cop said he ran that stuff and was able to confirm it was him and I told Richard that we would get him. So Richard told the cop this guy's on parole doing drugs at my fucking house.

And the cop said, cool, we'll arrest him. We'll come get him. Okay He said that he told the cops that he told Richard Gagnon that when writer came home for lunch For him and his mom to make an excuse to leave the house So they would not be there when detectives showed up to kick the door down and get him because they'd have to they'd have to Put them on the ground, too So this cop said Gagnon texted me that him him and his mom That his mom and Ryder were arguing.

At the time, we had a call for a felony theft, so I had to go there. While on scene, meaning another place, while on scene, I got a call from Gagnon, but I couldn't understand him. A few minutes later, we got a radio call about a shooting in the Indian Springs area, and that's when I put the two and two together.

So there was a cop that was gonna come to the house and take this guy out and cops that day. Unless this guy was literally trying to murder his mother there's no reason to shoot him really. What is up with this name? It's this fucking name. This cop said that Richard Gagnon told him his mom was scared because Ryder claimed to have ties to the Aryan Brotherhood and that she was scared he would get someone to hurt them for turning him in. Well, now you can't go to prison. Unless you're in prison, don't worry about it.

Yeah. Well, I don't know. You just killed an AB. You don't want to be a part of that in prison. No. You don't want to... Oh, boy. That's the only place where those guys have fucking power is prison.

Yeah, but if you shot one you're gonna go to prison You're in a lot of shit No, absolutely But he's saying that it's weird that he said he would get someone for to hurt him where from prison or when he gets out And then he goes back. That's what it have to be. So They said that the lawyer asked the cop if it was true that he told Richard Gagnon that Ryder would be in jail by the next day and he would be gone for good. And the cop said, yes, I absolutely told him that.

I'll make sure he never comes back there again. What the fuck? So the cop agreed that the plan did evolve over time for how they were gonna get him. Then the cop recalled the phone call and told Brown, the lawyer, that he was not sure that Richard Gagnon's's what the call was about because the call was distorted. Deborah Gagnon had told the judge that her son began using drugs mainly after his father

died from cancer. She said she recalled meeting Ryder, the dead guy, in August of 2013, and she said they took a trip to Houston and met some friends. Deborah said, it seems suspicious, but when I got back to Livingston, I found out we went to Houston to a bar for a drug buy. He took her for like an interstate drug buy, but didn't let her know that that's what they were doing. Deborah said she was strongly against drugs and felt ashamed that she had done drugs with

Ryder one time. I felt ashamed that I... One time. I brought shame upon myself. Oh, I brought shame upon my home. That one time. One time. Really?

Once you did it? Debra also said that after Ryder was kicked out of where he was staying, she allowed him to come stay with her She said it was myself him my brother and my son living there Interesting crew Deborah said she believed Richard Gagnon just wanted her to be happy and that she didn't know if there was any reason For her son to not like Ryder So she's saying not like he beat me all the time and my son had had it Deborah said that the beginning she was happy. She also said Richard and Ryder were good to each other.

She said the things we did together as a group was go swimming, but things with them were drug use. Ryder started seeking a relationship with Richard because he knew Richard would be able to get him drugs. So Deborah told the court that Richard was interested, this is the best line, told the court that Richard was interested in meth and synthetic marijuana. Interested in it. It's got a passing fancy, a hobby.

Tell me everything you know about these. Interested in it is very funny. You're interested in like, you know, 18th century art or fishing or something like that. It's a weird thing to be interested in. Yeah. Or the evolution of the C10 because I want to buy one. Yeah. Whatever the fuck it is.

So Debra said that the relationship between her son and Ryder turned sour once Ryder started using drugs on a regular basis. So they asked Debra about the purchase of a shotgun and she said I bought it sometime in October so she bought the shotgun. She said she could it was a 12 gauge but she doesn't remember if it was a pump. She said BJ, that's Ryder, the victim, talked me into buying the gun. He said our home was at risk of the Aryan Brotherhood and we could be shot up at any time. We're gonna need a 12-gauge so he

Basically forced her to buy his murder weapon. Yeah that he's killed with Jesus Deborah said she bought the gun in her name with her money because Richard wasn't supposed to have a gun because he was on Deferred adjudication. Oh my god Jesus Christ. Deborah continued that she never saw Richard with the gun in an argument, and that, yeah, that asked Deborah to go through November 6th in her head, the murder day.

She said, I went to work early that day. I left early because I was sick. Richard called me and told me Ryder had a blue warrant and was considered armed and dangerous. He asked me not to come home. She said she got home anyway at about 3pm that day. She didn't listen. She said that when she got home, Ryder was in the driveway with his boss from work.

And Deborah said, when I got out of the car, he tried to argue with me. I said I was sick and needed to lay down. I went inside and he followed me. He started to argue with me in the bedroom and he threw an ashtray at me. Threw an ashtray at me, which is a lot. Is that where the eye injury came from? I probably, I don't know, it shouldn't say it hit her, but I must have. He threw an ashtray at me. He eventually settled down and I took a shower. She said that her other son came over to get a table and after he left the argument continued.

She said he came outside and started yelling at me and said he was angry the relationship was over. He kept getting more and more angry and picked up a radio to hit me, but he didn't. He'll just pick up anything and use it as a weapon. A radio is a terrible weapon, but he's gonna use it. Anything that's hard near me is very plastic, metal, I don't care. Hitting her with a fucking computer mouse over and over again After but he didn't hit me after he put it down I took it and went inside with it to put it up He came inside and got in my face like nose to nose. He gets really close to my face and starts talking ugly

He started talking about my dead husband and how would I feel having my brother executed in my bed? What I told him that he has to go. He's threatening to kill her family. No more talking or arguing was going to change that and that he had to go immediately. Debra said he got angry and started kicking boxes of stuff across the room. I stood up and said he wasn't going to intimidate him or me. I told him I was going to call the cops. Then I thought twice and said I'm just going to leave. He grabbed my hand and started hitting me with his other

hand. Everything happened really fast. I don't know which hand I don't know what he had in his hand. She said she couldn't remember whether he was hitting her with an open hand an open hand or a fist. She said next I could hear my son say stop hitting my mom. He yelled it loudly. And that she she told the court here that she probably left that out of her statement to begin with because she was shocked and traumatized. But now she's saying something that's very helpful to her son in a murder beef. She never said that happened before, but at trial she's like, stop, he just wanted the guy to stop hitting his mom.

So anyway, he's convicted of that killing. So he's not self-defense, because he definitely did it. And he's had all sorts of other problems. So that's what I'm saying. And now he's in trouble with DAB in prison, probably. I wouldn't imagine he couldn't be. Yeah, he probably is. So nothing else, just for a stupid name. So there you go, everybody.

That is the tale of two Richard Gagnons. Had to squeeze that in at the end, because that fucker was haunting me So there you go everybody, that is the tale of two Richard Gagnons. Had to squeeze that in at the end because that fucker was haunting me every time I was looking shit up about the other Gagnon. I'm like, which one is this? Because it's 2013, things are all happening at once. Our exonerated Richard Gagnon, by the way, they're talking about, I don't know if it ever got resolved, but they were talking about how he would be compensated

from the state because he was held, because he wants to basically sue for wrongful conviction. For sure, yeah. They were saying we could refile the charges at any time. That's to hold off from him being able to sue. Yeah, so at the end of it all, it was just a random guy that killed people, huh? Random guy?

He was attached by the business, but it's still a random guy that just did a random thing. Random guy, never knew anybody, never knew them. All he probably heard was from that one guy, and they never charged the other guy too, so I don't even know if this is true, but they probably heard from that one guy, I work at this place, they have shit in their house, they make good money, I bet they have stuff to steal.

That's all. Oh, yeah. And in the end, it have stuff to steal. That's all oh and In the end, it's only one guy. It's Bruce Antoine Hill I feel bad for Bambi honestly in the end of all this because ladies life is fucked dude sure Her fucking mom and her stepdad died and she got blamed for it A lot of people think she was still involved in it Even though gag not even has been cleared a lot of people still blame her for this shit And now she thinks she can talk to ghosts and it's driven her so fucking crazy that she's trying to talk to ghosts on Instagram That's right. That's how far

Bennett and now it's something else too. She's got a different What the fuck is I'll find it but it's Bennett something else now. So go looking just leave her alone Oh, no, don't do that. Leave her alone. She's she's been through enough But you know, like I said her level of you know wacky if I talked to ghosts fine great Yeah, you know what what you've been through if that makes you feel better Terrific you've been through a lot and Richard too Turns out he might be a dick and everything back in the day But I don't think he had anything to fucking do with this.

He didn't have shit to do with it. He's just some poor bastard who went to jail for ten fucking years for nothing. A long time, yeah. That is shitty, dude. That's so bad. That's so fucked. So there you go, everyone. A major plot twist to this story. And, uh, God, some of these articles, too, are just... just vicious. Yeah. To Richard and Bambi, like these horrible people and she's an ungrateful twat. And like, it was like, oh my God, people were fucking livid.

So if you like that story, you should tell everyone about it. You can do that very easily. First of all, tell people you know. Yeah. Tell your friends, post on social media, do shit like that, that's a good way to do it. And if you still wanna help us out even more, head over to wherever you're listening, whatever app you're listening on this.

There's pretty much points to, you can review for all of them. Give us five stars, say something nice about the show. Let's say you've listened for 500 episodes. That's a lot of time, and we've put in thousands of hours of research and everything else for it Take 30 seconds drop a fuck and these guys are funny and five stars. That would be terrific Really would help us out a lot. Honestly, so it's a good thing to do do that

Also, you can follow us on social media. We are at small town murder on Instagram We are at murder small on Twitter and at small town pod on Facebook Find us there and get Small Town Pod on Facebook. Find us there and get all the updates on everything. You definitely want to go to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com, my friends. I will tell you that. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. You'll get all the merchandise that you should possibly want, enough merchandise to choke

an elephant and tickets for live shows, live shows throughout the rest of the year. Here we have Austin and Phoenix. Phoenix has been sold out since the first day they went on sale. Thank you Phoenix for that Austin is there any tickets left in Austin? Do you remember? Yeah, I think there's a few left in there So Austin get your tickets for that and then our last two shows of the year after that will be in New York and Boston and there's still a few tickets left for those so get your tickets now and also get your tickets for most of all October the 30th. It's a virtual live show baby. And if you've never been to a virtual live show, if you've never attended one, first of all you attended at your home. So that's nice. But if you've never been to one, it is exactly

like a live show. We have the tables set up. We have the screen with the pictures. It's the exact same experience you're going gonna get at a live show, except we're gonna be wearing costumes, which is interesting and fun, and they're really funny too, it's a duo of course. And then the other difference is, you don't have to go anywhere. You can sit in your damn house,

and it's available for two weeks afterwards too. So you can buy it, watch it that night, you can watch it 10 more times, you can go, I don't feel like watching it till next week and you can watch it then you can do any time anything You want with it for two weeks? So get that shut up and give me murder calm Patreon you want to get as well. Oh, yeah, we throw down hard on patreon If you fucking like the shows, you're gonna love patreon It is anybody five dollars a month or above you are gonna get first of all

Immediately hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before. So that'll give you some shit to listen to. And then, there's people who say, I run out of stuff. I run out of stuff. Well, there you go. The whole new thing. And then you get new ones every other week.

One crime and sports, one small town murder. We give it all to you, baby. You enjoy it. Take it in good health. So this week, what you're gonna get for crime and sports, we are gonna talk about Vince McMahon documentary. Almost forgot there. You enjoy it. Take it in good health. So this week, what you're gonna get for crime and sports, we are gonna talk about Vince McMahon documentary. Almost forgot there.

The Vince McMahon documentary we're gonna talk about. And there's some very specific things in there. Won't be a lot about wrestling at all. Don't worry if you're not a sports fan. Be a lot about. The accusations and shit. Fucking Vince and how he is not good at denying things. We'll put it that way.

He's terrible at it. Just the worst. So check that out then for Small Town Murder, part two of Ted Bundy's 1976 psychological assessment to find out if he's a violent person. Is he? Gee, who knows? We don't know yet.

How's it gonna come out, guys? I wonder. But there's some more of the pictures and shit. Let's see what Ted thinks of a bunny rabbit skipping through a field. Let's see what dark spin he can put on that shit. So check all of that out and more at patreon.com slash crime in sports.

And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right God damn now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful fucking people in the world who get awesome Patreon content every other week. Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producer, Jordan Bennett and Gary Howard. Thank you both so much.

Hey, thank you, Jordan and Gary. We appreciate you guys. You guys are the best. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janis Hill, Cody Leversey, Steven Fitzsimmons. I think it's just Steve Fitzsimmons. P-I-A-P-T-K. I'm not sure what that stands for. I'm sure it's an acronym for something.

Kelsey Insaner. Oh. Right? It's got to be Insaner. I'm Insan what that stands for. I'm sure it's an acronym for something. Kelsey Insaner. Oh, it's got to be Insaner. I'm Insaner than you. Kelsey is Insaner. No, I'm Insaner. I don't believe you. She got a birth certificate for it. Crystal Metch-Holtz, Courtney Hoffman, Lena, Lena, Lena, maybe Mills, Jeff Adamski, Adamski, Paula Reynolds, Linda, would know last name, Lacey Wells, Brandon Lyons, Amanda Labreck, yeah, William would know last name, Eric Olson, Ada Sapko, Steven Perl, Aaron Jensen, Britt would know last name, Renee would know last name, Elizabeth Aquino, Kat would know last name, Richard Gagnon, I don't know, Gag-on-on.

Gwendolin. That name always fucks me up. It's fucked, it's so brutal. As comedians, we just wanna say Gag-on-on, and that's not how we're. And his name is Richard. It's probably not his real name. God, it's Dick Gagnon.

I'm sure it's not that. Gwendolin Chambers, Chelsea Headley, Headley, Lauren Thorpe, Brian Stoneburner, Rachel Kibbe, Donna St Chelsea Headley, Headley, Lauren Thorpe, Brian Stoneburner, Rachel Kibbe, Donna Strayley, Strayley, Strayley, Strayley, Veronica Mendoza, Amber with no last name, Boobray, Megan, Megan Icarino, Icarino. Icarumba? Icarumba.

Mary with no last name, Linda DuPois, DuPois, Lauren. Lauren with no last name, Amanda with no last name, Jamie Thomas probably, it might be Tomes, Alexandra Awada, Bethany Marantos, Courtney Acevedo, Sphinx with no last name, Russell Moore, Aluvion, MN, I think that's Minnesota. Jacob Berlin, Carrie with no last name. Dorothy Phillips. Michelle Jarvis.

Ash F. Artzy. Blue Eyes. Jeffrey Scott DeGroote. Matthew Howard. Sarah Saunders. Lucky Olsen. Toby would know last name. Kristen Larson.

Leah G. Sean Coltrane. Abby Shalaby. Shabalobo. Shabal not going to work here anymore. Shabal not going to Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo.

Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo.

Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo.

Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Shobolobo. Lam, Laura Moore, Pamela Marsh, Danielle Corcoran, Michelle Wilson, Leslie would know last name, Tasha Arthur, Anthony Nielsen, Kerry Mullins, Ann Fenster Mocker, Laurie Scheldstad, Riley Filner, Aaron Thornton, Bad Taste, I know that one, Joe Perry, Don D. Joe Perry, Aerosmith guitarist. Joe Perry's giving us money now. Jill Perry, his wife or daughter possibly. His wife, thank fuck. Yeah, good. Earl's daughter, Jenny Scheib. Give me some of that Janey's got a gun money. Let's go.

I'll go crazy. Constance Ellen, Carmen Rusnak. Rue snack Rue Snack, Josh Chastain, Lauren Davies, Ashley Gereau, Grox perhaps, it's probably Gereau, Sophia Smith, Janelle R., Douglas Heckert, Clara Alley perhaps, Drew McCarson perhaps, Big Jer, Hey Sue Spirada, Erica with no last name, Susan Walker, Archana Arachna, Renee Dominguez, Rachel with no last name, Tyler Espinoza, Michael Watts, Dennis Falk, Dane Thompson, Stephanie Tools, Lyra Smith, Cassandra Kaufman Rapini, Katie Rustman, Roostman, Taylor with no last name, Leia, this person's real name is Leia, likely named after the Princess. Somebody had a fan. Right? Someone's dad was at the theater in 78. Mr. Seth Shaken, Saf Shaken, Saf Shakanen, or Bishop. One of those two people loves Princess Leia. Tyler Baxey, Megan Bell, Namowski, Hot Vapor, Melanie McGarva, Kevin Ives, Adam Smiley,

Jeffrey Pope, Amanda Kunkel, Kunkel probably, Vanessa Shado, Shadow perhaps, Kayla Sasser, Kara Anne Jeff, Fullmetal, Lack15, Metal Lack. I don't know what we're doing there. I don't know what the whole point of that is. I don't know where we are right now. Perhaps, all right, Julie Putney, Heather White? Wine, oh, Heather Wine, Christina Sanfilippo. No name, oh, no name, no first or last name at all, James.

Not even first. Kelly would know last name though, Liss would know last name. Mandy Amendinger, Amendinger. Ammendinger. Amanda Armand. Armendinger. That's it. Elvira Erwin. Ryan Mantle. Hanzo Beefton. Probably not. Kevin Hozier. Like the singer that we used to know them. Taylor Christensen. Chelsea Slack. Brandon would know last name, Joseph Jarrell, Christopher Mountcastle, Andrea Ranka, Jarvis Rinkle, okay, Addison Teague, you, that's who it is,

Kevin Colfer, Ramona Algerian, you Algerian, Jessica, you, Steven Clark, or Cook rather, you, Erica Ponellaa Jesse Bruner and crystal She's not a stripper. Although there's nothing wrong with that. Thank you all So much and all of our patrons you guys are the best. Thank you so much everybody you magnificent wonderful sons of bitches We love you so much. Thank you Jordan Bennett and Simon's anniversary there. They've been married for 20 years That's what you want. to say. Happy anniversary. I'm a piece of shit. Sorry about that, Jordan.

Happy anniversary, you two. Happy anniversary. They come from different continents and they're still together and they love it. They're a fun couple. We like them a lot. So happy, happy, happy to Simon and Jordan. There you go. Thank you so much, everybody.

If you want to follow us, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Drop down menus. We'll lead you anywhere you need to be. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.