Small Town Murder - #543 - Baby Faced Killer - Menoken, North Dakota

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

This week, in Menoken, North Dakota, a brutal & bloody scene awaits detectives, when they find several people slaughtered, in their own home, but the biggest surprise is who the killer turns out to be, and the wild nationwide manhunt that follows. The two very unlikely fugitives are captured in a crazy scene, but will their explanation for the murders raises eyebrows, and has some doubting the story!!Along the way, we find out that people can make anything out of an apple, that you can't judge innocence by how innocent someone looks, and that some people will still be in love with you, no matter what you do!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Redacted Declassified Mysteries is a new podcast hosted by me, Luke Lamanna. Each week I dive into the hidden truths behind the world's most powerful institutions. From covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts, follow Redacted on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Monoccan, North Dakota, a brutal and bloody scene awaits detectives when they

find several people slaughtered in their own home, but the biggest surprise is who the killer turns out to be and the wild nationwide manhunt that follows. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. And we're going to North Dakota today. We haven't done that many North Dakota episodes. So when you get some of these states we haven't done a lot, say Alaska, North Dakota, you know they're bonkers because that's why we're doing it so otherwise there's just not enough people to have enough murders but we'll get to all of that head over to shut up and give me murder calm get your tickets for

live shows Austin Texas you are up next it's almost sold out but there's still a few tickets left get in there right now Phoenix is sold out the next night Boston's almost sold out in New York we released our last tickets I don't know if they're sold or not yet. So pretty close. Get on in there and get those. Also get your tickets. You can still get them if it's before November 13th. You can still get them for the virtual live show that we did on October 30th. It's a wild case, hilarious story. Everything's crazy. And our costumes, I got to say, are phenomenal. So, it's so much fun. Get your tickets right now and get in there. You can watch it as many times as you

want. Pretend like it's happening live. You don't know the difference. Who cares? Get in there. Shutupandgivemurder.com. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all your bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month or above, it's that cup of coffee. Literally, a mere cup of coffee. You can either have a cup of coffee that might not even be that good or hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder, and you get all of it. I think that's a better bargain for five bucks. That said, this week what we have for crime and sports. We're gonna talk about

Pedestrianism it's called. Yeah, it was the most popular sport in the 1800s Wow and it filled with scandal and fighting and It's insane, dude. It's wild. We'll talk all about it. It was like crazy times in the 1800s Wait, then for small-town murder. We're gonna talk about the documentary Then for small town murder we're going to talk about the documentary the devil on trial Which is about the first person who's tried to use demonic possession as a defense in court and also we'll talk about other Exorcism type things and all that and kind of a history of that and how that goes there that is patreon.com Crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show by the speaking of shows, you should listen to our other two shows as well, Crime in Sports and Small Time, or not, this is Small Time Murder,

and Your Stupid Opinions. There you go. Listen to that. So that's a disclaimer time. Here we go. Hey everybody, it's a comedy show. It is. We're comedians.

We are. Now, that's not, that doesn't say that the cases aren't real. That's the sad part is everything in here is as real as possibly can be. Incredibly be. We try to do better research than you know Dateline and be funny so we're trying it's tough to do but we think we can pull it off here we've been doing it for 500 something episodes so we think we can do it so if you think that true crime and comedy should never go together I mean you might not be for us but listen what we do here is we don't

make fun of the victims or the victims family. Why James? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. See how that goes? See that's, it's real easy here. So if you think you're going to, that's all right with you. You're ready for a crazy story. We got one for you. I think it's time that we all sit back, clear the lungs, arms to the sky. Let's all shout. that we all sit back, clear the lungs, arms to the sky, let's all shout! Shut up and give me murder! Let's do this everybody.

Hey! Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. Let's do it. We are going to North Dakota, which most, that's not said a lot in this world. Come on everybody, we're going to North Dakota. Don't hear that often. This is Monocan, North Dakota.

I heard a farmer, I watched a guy talk about farming for like 12 minutes on a video before he finally said the word Monocan, because I'm like, and he had like a hardcore North Dakota accent. This guy had like corn stalks growing out of him. So he's he was like a sentient corn stalk basically. So I believe the man here. This is in central North Dakota kind of right in the middle. It's about 20 minutes to Bismarck on the old I-94 I believe. It's about an hour and 50 minutes to Valley City, North Dakota. Our last episode, which this is episode 543 right now, that was episode 467. So it's

been a while. And that was abnormal acts of brutality, that one was called. And it was abnormal. When shit happens up here, it really goes down. Let's just say that. This is in Burleigh County, B-U-R-L-E-I-G-H County. Yeah, yeah, Burleigh didn't expect that, did you? That's why I spelled it. That hits you out of nowhere, doesn't it? Yeah, the town, the town Nehmer loves a vanilla latte. Loves it. This is area code 701. History of this town started out,

wasn't Monoccan to begin with. No? No, no, started out different, with tons of different names. In 1873, it had its first name, which was 17th Siding. No, no, no started out different with tons of different names in 1873 it had its first name which was 17th siding What is that's the name of that's what they named the town 17th 17th and spelled out to not the letter not the numbers 17th siding like on your house siding

Okay, it was soon renamed, because they realized that was the worst name for any place that anyone's ever come up with, so they went, let's rename this. So they named Blaine, B-L-A-I-N-E, for James G. Blaine, obviously for David Blaine, they knew it was gonna happen. And then he disappeared. James G. Blaine, a US Senator from Maine.

That makes sense, let's name- Blaine from Maine US senator from Maine. That makes sense. Let's name Blaine from Maine? Get out of here. Our town on the plains after Blaine from Maine. What do you say? What do you say? It rains mostly on the plains. Exactly. So then they were like, no, that's stupid. People are really the rhyming and everyone's making fun of us. So the post office opened in 1880 and the town was renamed Clark's Farm after C.J. Clark who was a local farmer. So then finally, the town finally renamed Monocan in 1883 which is an Indian name. So the Northern Pacific Railroad didn't like the name. They were like, goddamn Indian names. So they changed the name of the station.

Oh? So the station is in Monoccan, but it's not called Monoccan, it's called Burleigh. Clark's Farm? Burleigh station, after the county. So the siding on the station still carries the name to this day. Hilarious. Which is crazy. It is, let's see here, it's in the, it's kind of southeast of Bismarck, this test, like I said, 20 minutes outside

of Bismarck, that'll play a role in what we got going on here. Also the Monocan Indian Village site, known as the Monocan site here, is an archaeological site, and it is a, it's that of a fortified village occupied in? 1300 in that era around then and is important to the prehistory of this whole area here It's one of the only sites that predate sites that are more clearly associated with the Indians of the area the Hidatsa the Mandan And the Erykara Erykara Erykara. Yeah, that's how you say it. It was declared a National Historic Landmark in 1964. So there's that. Now reviews of this town.

How do they love it? No reviews of this town proper because when I tell you how many people are in it, you're gonna go, oh, well, that makes sense. But these are for the county, so same shit, here we go. Five stars. So on campus, if you're a student or just someone looking for a job,

there's a pretty good chance you'll be able to get one. Well, that's positive. That's positive. We all want that. The job area complete in the city is pretty good. The job area complete in the city is pretty good. I don't know what that sentence means. I guess I mean, compete, competition? I have no idea what that means. I mean, if you just walk down the street, you'll see a sign saying that job is looking for someone to hire.

Would you like job? We have job, fill out application. We live in a state where the oil boom is happening, so if you're into the welding and other stuff like that, you'll get a job for sure. Sure? So there's all the fracking and all that shit up there too four stars. Yes. I plan on living here for a while It's a really good community to be in That's it. Whole review. I plan on being here if you want a job come get one come get one

I like being here and then four stars. I like the four seasons in our area Of course summer could be longer and winter shorter Well, you could also not live in North Dakota as part of that The word north is right there in there. You should have figured it out like nobody thinks North Dakota's warm No, I would hope not if they do they don't really know how maps and things work Yeah climates and then finally three stars. There are a variety of restaurants going from a steakhouse to Mexican restaurants. Oh, they must be spectacular the Mexican The Mexican food in central, North Dakota must be nah just fucking wonderful that bison asada The Mexican food in New York sucks, so I am assuming it's gonna be really bad there, you know what I mean?

The Mexican food in New York sucks, so I am assuming it's going to be really bad there. You know what I mean? And to Chinese restaurants, which again, I'm sure. They spelled Chinese C-H-I-N-E-A-S by the way. Chinese. I know of two bars that people like going to, and they said they're pretty good. They have good music. A lot of people go so you can meet someone new and the drinks are good. You know, a bar where there's people.

You'll get fucked up and then you can go get Shania's food at night. It's wild. Yeah. That's terrific. Yeah. You can get a fucking buffalo assada later on. It's going to be great. I wouldn't know if there really is It's big out there yeah, I Wouldn't know if there really is favorites in restaurants every restaurant. We went to it's been packed I just don't think there's a lot of stuff there. Yeah people in this town 72 Not lot of stuff there. Yeah. People in this town, 72. No, not 770 to or 172. 7200. 72. 72. 72 people. You could throw a rock from your house and hit more than 72 people with it. Like just around your house. Um, let's see.'s see there is more females than males but

again 72 people the stats are amazing. Skewed the median age here is 47.8 judging by the math of the age groups there is one 18 to 20 year old person in this town one sad lonely bored 19 year old sitting there going, god damn it. This is so boring. Jesus, family here, 57% married, very low divorce rate. It's 6.6%, which is like crazy insanely low. No kidding. But a lot of this is farming.

So it's like, we can't get a divorce because we have crops to take in so it doesn't matter if we don't like each other Yeah, who's gonna feed the hogs you do the sorghum and I'll do the fucking corn. How about that? We're gonna Separate that way. Yeah, that's that's a separation in North Dakota, by the way legal separation. It's just you do different farm work It's about only four point three people four.3% of people are single with children. 4.3%. Yeah, so this is a... That's less than 4.3 people. This is a different deal, man. Race in this town, 96.3% white and 3.8% two or more races. That's it.

Okay. 0.0% and everything else. Religion, a lot of that though, 66.1% religious, which is well above the national average. And surprisingly, the most of them here are Catholic, actually, which is Catholics and Lutherans, like really fighting it out for the top spot. Fascinating.

Yep. Unemployment rate is low, 4%, which is about the same as the rest of the country at this point. Median household income here is high though. Rest of the country, it's about 69%. Here it is $86,250 a year. So much better. Wow, Jesus.

Yeah, they're doing great. Cost of living here, $100 is regular average. Here it is $95.2. Housing is a 71 out of 100, so. That's it is 95.2. Housing is a 71 out of 100, so. That's terrific too. Not bad. So if we've convinced you, damn it. You've had it with action and good Mexican food

and things of that nature. Yeah. You gotta try the Chinese of North Dakota. The Chinese food that has like chicken and pork in it and you've wanted to go to more experimental fricking free range plains animals. We have for you the Monocan North Dakota real estate report. The average two bedroom rental here, which I don't know if that exists in Monocan.

They can't, right? They're not going to be an apartment building.'d be more than 70 tooth of people in it it'd be right there. It's a two-bedroom single standalone home. Yeah it's a $910 for that. Now here there's only one house that's in Monocan proper but there's a couple of like in the outskirts. Yeah here is a four-bedroom two This is not there. It's technically Bismarck where this is, but it's kind of out by itself. 2496 square foot house built in 1918. It's a nice little house. The outside looks a little dingy, like it might could use like a fresh up

on the paint, maybe or something like that. But the inside looks way nicer than the outside. They put all their money keeping the inside nice. And that's that's good, though. It's nice. I like an old car that's been the interiors been fixed up but the outside looks like shit so I'm into this. That's the weirdest thing ever by the way. I've never seen that before. I've seen houses like that but cars people start with the body usually and then the last thing they do

is I'll put these new seats in because otherwise It's like a thing people do now where they like never soup up the inside put a new motor in it. Yeah They have a classic car the last thing I would deal with my interiors all original as a matter of fact It's like they're they're putting all new shit in these things and then leaving the outside a rust bucket Okay, that's a waste of money. It's a fascinating choice. That's making it for you, not everyone else is what it is. Why not both? When I walk up to my car and it's not a shitty rust bucket, I feel good about it at that

point. This house, $239,000 for this house. This is the only one in Monoccan coming up here. Four bedroom, four bath, T-ball for each and every B-hole. Holy shit. 2400 square feet on 1.62 acres. It is just an average house. You can it's a little bigger than your average house, but nothing special here. There's an above ground pool that looks like it's about to collapse.

So there's that doesn't look wonderful. It's on 1.62 acres, $495,000 for that. That is insane. Pricy, yeah. And then here's a six-bedroom, six-bath, 8,603 square feet, huge monster house, 2.15 acres, built in 1953, enormous circular driveway. It is, they say it was built by the renowned Harold Schaeffer. Oh, I love his work.

Yes, Schaeffer and Schaeffer. Oh, we all know Schaeffer. I like his beer. I like his houses. They're all great. The property combines historical charm with classic luxury, making it a true masterpiece. The bar has like old carved really cool wood in it. It's really nice.

$2.6 million though. A little pricey. I mean, it's 8,000 square feet. It's 8,000 square feet, but you're also in North Dakota. So you know what I mean? It couldn't be anything over a million. Nope, absolutely not. You would move there, unless you really want to farm,

you'd move there because it's cheap. Yeah. I would imagine I would imagine those is not cheap. That's not cheap. No things to do here The Apple fest whoo-hoo. We got an Apple fest going on here seems to be popular. They got a bake sale tours of historic Buck Stop Junction Well, then yeah, we've all wanted to go to buck stop Junction our whole lives Yeah, buck stop Junction a silent auction food galore fermented orchard beer wine gardens Fermented orchard beer what the fuck is that apple beer? Fermented apple cider that fucking hard cider. I think that's like a hard cider. Hey rides. Yeah sure

I don't know why that's fun, but people seem to like hay rides. I don't know. I'm not even allergic to hay, and it fucks me up. It's weird. I just, I'm not a, I don't, this is not a barn. I don't want to be hanging out around hay very often, usually. It's a fascinating choice. Some people like hay, why not, I guess.

And then live music. Oh, baby. Oh, here we go. In a town of 78 people. We're gonna have live music. 74, how many is it? 72. 72 people.

Oh, someone just died, 71. What are we gonna do? RIP fucking Fred, he's gone. So this music starts at 10 a.m., by the way. Of course it does. When all the bands are at their best, at 10 a.m. when musicians do their best work. There's a lot of tea being made. Wow 10 o'clock a.m. backstage pass will be there.

That's the band? That's the band. Then at 11.15 double barrel will be there. Hell yeah. Playing a 35 minute set. From 12 to 1 to be determined. Or no it's not. It's TDB. It's not even to be determined. no it's not it's TDB it's not even to be

determined so it might be a band called TDB TDB TDB to determined to be to determined to be yes one to 230 that 60s band yeah which one we don't know doesn't matter 230 double barrel in demand. 230 Double Barrel will be back on stage for another half hour. They split their set into two, which is always a little long quality. And then from three to five, this is, this is, you know, two hours now, the biggest set of the day. Yeah. Church of Cash with Kat Perkins. Church of Cash with Kat Perkins will be there. Terrific. Kat Perkins.

Great. Kat Perkins will be there. Thank fuck for that. I needed that. I imagine that's going to be some funk, yeah? Beats the shit out of me. Then they have, at the church, they have a whole different entertainment lineup. They have brassy entertainment from 10 to 12, I assume Brass Instruments. Sure.

Peyton Lilly will be there at 12, 15, and then the Legacy Jazz Choirs will be there. There's also Kitty Yoko will be performing. Like a child Yoko Ono? Kitty Yoko, Kitty Ko is basically what it is, and it's Chris Kitko is the guy who does that. Sure, sure. Children's Music and entertainment.

Then at two o'clock at the hotel, Miss Sparkles will be there. No Miss Sparkles. We go, all right, that sounds good. No, Miss Sparkles does children's story time and book reading. So not what we're looking for. There's also a mac and cheese fest if you can't stand that many apples. That's fantastic. Is there a Miss Sparkles that'll sit on my lap while I eat mac and cheese? I mean she'll tell you a children's story. She's gonna read you Little Miss Muffet while she does it but yeah I'd like to see your tough it darlin'. Now Mac and Cheese Fest, the vendors brought the big cheese is what it says. The big cheese. New and improved vendors for Mac and Cheese Fest presented by Dakota Community Bank and Trust. None of that shit mac and cheese we had last year.

From Wells Fargo. The best way to try them all is to purchase the VIP Mac Daddy Ticket. MAC Daddy. With the most mac and cheese. Oh my god, it says, please be aware that our cheese paradise may not be a haven for the gluten-free or lactose intolerant. Keep your eyes peeled on the official menu for any vendors offering gluten-free or dairy-free options. Just don't eat mac and cheese if you're gluten and dairy-free. All it is is a pile of gluten and dairy.

Just pick something else. It's the worst two things to eat if you have those allergies. The absolute worst thing you could fucking get. They also said they'll have dishes including meaty delights such as bacon, brisket, and more. Oh. So you're going to have that here. Pork belly gouda mac someone is offering, which is gouda and cheddar mac with candied

pork belly, toasted sesame, and fresh chives. That's good. There's going to, the golden noodle for the best mac and cheese and a people's choice award for the mac and cheese also for, you know, someone who got screwed out of the golden noodle, obviously. Gotta have the golden noodle. And selected as the Lil Mac Judge's golden noodle

is one utterly amazing treats and eats. They're advertising that. It's the fucking stupidest sentence you've ever said. Dude, there's all puns. It's just all mac and cheese puns, cow puns. Deep fried cheese curd, a mini corn dog and mac and cheese bite. Cheese Utter 2.0, they call it.

Hensley's Tasty Truck, they have also, which will have Flamin' Hot Piggy Mac. Eww, is that? Oh no! Oh, you know what that is? White Cheddar Mac and Cheese, which I love by the way. I love a White Cheddar Mac and Cheese with caramelized onions, braised pork, Flamin' Hot Cheetos Dust.

Yeah, ruin it with garbage please. Take your nice meal you've prepared. Put some flammable dust on top put some industrial garbage on it. Thanks Though the fucking insulation from an attic on there and then put roasted poblano lime crema on top all this fancy ingredients to put flaming hot cheeto dust on it god damn it we're not a serious people and Also getting getting sauce to barbecue and catering this is just a guy who loves to barbecue and wanted to share with others.

Dustin loves working out of the food truck and his menu item is not yo mama's mac and cheese. Not yo mama's. Yeah, we're getting sauce. Getting sauce. A blend of six different cheeses, seasonings, and the perfect noodles and smokey bacon to finish it off You will know about this mac and cheese and definitely you'll know it definitely did not come from a box

I'm sure not generally doesn't come with flaming hot cheeto dust on it either. So Crime rate in this town what we're interested in here Property crime less than one-third the national average. So that's terrific crime less than one third the national average. So that's terrific. Very low and then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one quarter of the national average. So yeah, but I mean, it's farms. You'd have to walk all the way to someone else's farm to commit a crime.

It's a lot. The fact that they're not doing it is terrific. It's 72 really kind folks. Well, not even 72 because there's some people that are still criminals. Some's 72 really kind folks. Well, not even 72, because there's some people that are still criminals. Some people aren't so kind. That said, let's talk about some murder that happened in this town. I can tell you about someone who's not. Neugebauer. So that's a lot. When I saw that I said oh boy is that Neugebauer? Neugebauer is how you say it. Now we'll talk about Ronald

first of all here and we will start out with he's born in about what, 1948 here. So he is 44 years old, come 1992 when we're going to talk about the family in 91, 92 here. So he was born and raised on the farm he lives in as an adult. Three generations were brought up on this farm. So I mean, and basically when someone grows up, they just put a trailer somewhere on the farm. On the property. Yeah. So there's multiple trailers of people that live and then his parents live in the house.

And then when they die, the kid moves into the house and we start the cycle over. Somebody else gets a new trailer. New trailer time, baby. So Ron grows up here, he works the land around the buildings that his family and other families in the area owned. He's a farmer, and he also serves on the local school board as well. Is that right? An elected member of the local school board as well.

Very nice. So he's known in town, people know. I mean, if you've been here for three generations and there's 72 people, everyone knows you. You know what I mean? You've met everybody, you've met their parents, it's crazy. So he meets a young lady here at some point because she grows up just around him in the farm, like on the farm area.

She is Maureen Sherman is who he meets. She's about four years younger than he is, but she's the daughter of Ivan and Gladys Sherman and they live on a farm right up the street. So this is all a couple of local farm kids getting together. She becomes Maureen Nugabauer, which is you have to really love someone. Sherman is very easy. You know. Very, very easy here. I'll take that name. I'll take it. Go ahead. So she is works as a secretary at the University of Mary in Bismarck. Okay, which I've never heard of that college, but sure, it's a small college. So that's they have

a family here. They've been having kids. They have a 16 year old daughter. So they started having kids in the 70s, you know, 76 she would have been born in. Now in 1991 92. Michelle is her name, the 16 year old, the oldest kid. She's a junior at Century High School, where she's a member of the prep choir. Sure. So there you go. She's doing great. Then they have another they have a son who was born the next year. They really piled them up. His name is Michael middle name David. Michael is 15 years old. He's a sophomore at Bismarck High School. I don't know why they go to different high schools, but they do. And then they have Ryan who's three years younger than Michael. He is 12 years old in 91 92 and he's a seventh grader at Monocan grade school. So okay, that's the family three kids family adorable family

Yeah, they live on the bowers the new go powers. They live on the family homestead They live they're like the kids the you know, Ronald's parents live right next door You know on the property they the family parents live right next door on the property. The family lives in a trailer though on the property. So you got five people in a trailer which is tough going right there. But it's not just like a regular trailer. It looks like there's parts stuck onto it or something like they put additions on. Double wide and customized.

Like there's additions put on it which I've never seen before. Additions on a trailer but that's what it looks like. Maybe Exhibit got a hold of it and there's a fish tank and a popcorn machine. Fucking some 15s in there somewhere pumping the base out. 15s underneath the toilet. Yo man put 15s behind your vanity mirror son. Wake your ass up in the morning you know what I'm saying? Thanks, Exhibit. Pop-out machine. Appreciate that. You remember how you had a bathtub? Shit's a fish tank now, what's up?

Oh, thanks, Exhibit. Appreciate it. You know how you got aspirations of being a dog groomer? I put a dog grooming station right in your mom's room. I mean, we talked about grooming dogs, but we didn't like, we don't have a business plan. We all gonna groom now.

You know what I'm saying? Set up. Make it worth it dog. Okay, thanks exhibit. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little known British territory called Pitcairn and it harboured a deep, dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reached the age of 10 that would still emerge.

It just happens to all of them. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it, people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific Island

to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. In November 1991, media tycoon Robert Maxwell mysteriously vanished from his luxury yacht in the Canary Islands. But it wasn't just his body that would come to the surface in the days that followed. It soon emerged that Robert's business was on the brink of collapse and behind his facade of wealth and success was a litany of bad investments, mounting debt, and multi-million dollar fraud. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show Business Movers. We tell the true

stories of business leaders who risked it all, the critical moments that defined their journey, and the ideas that transformed the way we live our lives. In our latest series, a young refugee fleeing the Nazis arrives in Britain determined to make something of his life. Taking the name Robert Maxwell, he builds a publishing and newspaper empire that spans the globe. But ambition eventually curdles into desperation, and Robert's determination to succeed turns into a willingness to do anything to get ahead.

Follow Business Movers wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondry app. Thanks for doing all of this now. Thanks. I mean, you went out of your way, it feels like. Thanks for, yo, your trailer wasn't, it wasn't mobile, now this shit's mobile. I put 20s on that

motherfucker you took our okay well now it's now it looks like a trailer thanks welded a cab and put a v10 in this motherfucker thanks exhibit there's a gumball machine in the oven that's my whole house right ain't that that's right you never thought of that shit did? Careful when you heat that shit up, dog. Exhibit things to that shit, son. Come fuck my shit, I think that's a good one. So the neighbors here, Jay Opdahl, and Ronald works his land, by the way, as a farmer here,

Jay said they're very nice people, the nicest neighbors you could have. Sure. Said Ryan, the 12 year old, is the nicest kid I've ever known, happy personality, always happy, loves baseball and basketball. The whole family went scuba diving down south last year. Down, what's down south? South Dakota? Kansas. We went on down to Kansas for their famous, the fucking scuba diving scene they have down there in Nebraska.

Everybody knows about that. So his wife, now this is the guy's wife said, but they're very private, this family too. They're also private. Keep to themselves. And the guy said, yeah, but he said, once you get to know them, there's not anything they wouldn't do for you.

They're great kids. They're great people and the kids are nice. Everybody's good. So they said everybody said Michael's a good kid The middle child the 15 year old They said that his one grandmother said he helped his family bring in the crops and even worked another job at a vegetable truck on a vegetable truck farm south of Monocan his grandma this is Maureen's mother, said he's always been a good kid. We used to set down, we used to set down when his parents would take a vacation and talk about anything, not sit down, set down. He was just a little man. I never had to call him to go to school. He

got up and took care of the cattle, ate breakfast and went to school. He was very responsible, just a super kid. So Michael, great kid. Wow. That's a long day before you even get to school, man. Sure enough, got up and took care of the cattle. That's I'm done for the day. After you, after you sat down and talked to grandma for a bit. I'm not going to do math after that. I've already done some work. Now there are some ripples of possible abuse in this family. Ronald apparently has a super bad temper. Iron fist.

Well a temper because he'll even have Maureen will take off for a while and get her own apartment here in 1991. Yeah, like his temper is a lot. Michael had a thin white scar on his hand and he was saying that the skin was split open between two of his fingers. He said he and his siblings were hiding under the table because their father was angry

that the dishes hadn't been done. Oh boy. One time. And his father threw a glass on the floor and it shattered and one of the pieces went into his hand. Because the gay were hiding under the table, which turned out to be not a good place to hide. So. Yeah, generally. Michael will have a girlfriend that he tells a lot of this abuse to. And even she said that Michael's father even scared her and threatened her before and shit and did more than that as we'll talk about. She said

the father abused Michael often, Ronald did, threatened her, the girlfriend, with a hammer. Threatened a 16 year old, threatened a sophomore with a hammer. Which is crazy. Then at one point, and she said it was on purpose too, Ronald ran her dog over, killed it. Fucking ran it down in the street apparently on purpose, killed it, then made Michael clean it up. That's fucked up. That's kinda fucked up. Now this girlfriend says she even tried

to report this to the authorities that Michael was being abused. Her boyfriend was being abused by his father, but she said that no one would help ever. Yeah, she said she went out of her way to report the abuse, but nothing happened. And the father found out and then threatened her more. So she was like, well, I'm done with that. What's he so mad about? A lot. She said at one point, his dad was standing there with a hammer saying, I will kill you if you have anything to do with my family.

And so that's crazy. To a child, to a 16 year old girl is a little odd. Just for being involved with the family? Yes, because they didn't like her So you rather than you know, tell your son to stay away from her you threaten a girl with a hammer Threaten somebody's daughter with a hammer. That certainly will solve the problem. Wow. Nope didn't do anything actually because teenage kids You could threaten him with a hammer. They don't care. They're still gonna do what they're gonna do You have to convince them that they don't want to do that or else they're gonna do it

gonna do what they're gonna do, you have to convince them that they don't want to do that or else they're gonna do it. So yeah, she said he actually ran my dog over and made Mike clean it up. This was after the hammer incident. So Jackie convinced that served as girlfriend's name, by the way, Jackie, and we'll talk about her in a minute here. She convinced Michael to get help at a Bismarck domestic abuse shelter. She said your dad is threatening you with how, like this is crazy. You gotta, you gotta get help.

So they ended up calling Ronald up when he was there. Oh, they called Ronald up, I guess, to say, you know, what's up? And they basically said, this is from Jackie. She said, quote, they called his dad and said, we understand you're abusing your son, which made it worse. And then it was a domino effect. Spark plugs being taken out, wheels off of his car. Because then when he got home, Michael, somehow, by the way,

in North Dakota, there's different laws because of the farm thing. I think you can get a driver's license at a younger age. A lot of farm states have that. Yeah, you don't need to be 16. Some of them you could be 14. I think in Idaho, you can be 14 if it's like a farm license. In Arizona, you don't need to be 16 some of them you could be 14 or I think it's Idaho You can be 14 if you it's like a farm license in Arizona You can get a younger license if you are a farm worker. I know that's not it's not a driver's license

It's a farm, but you can drive. Yeah, you can still drive They just give you one earlier because you have to do it for a farm shit. Wow, so prove it I don't know. I apparently you've got to show up at least a bale of hay under your arm, right like something So dirty knees and elbows. Yeah dragging a bison behind you go I'm gonna sell this to the Chienese restaurant there, but I I gotta get my license first I guess I got a drive to them. You're gonna drive there. So he had a 72 Monte Carlo, which is a fucking dope ass ride Yeah, and I guess they started taking the car away and including taking the spark plugs out taking the wheels off of it

so She said all the all trying to get him helped. It was caused more abuse, which wasn't great Now Michael, otherwise no pretty normal kid. Everybody says here He's an outdoor enthusiast as I think everyone in this area was, especially pre-internet. It's either that or stare at the wall. It probably had, you know. What are you gonna do? Yeah.

It's a farm in the middle of nowhere. He went hunting a lot with his friend from school, a kid named Don Peterson. People said it was not unusual to see Michael carrying a rifle around going down to Apple Creek and, you know, going to trap and hunt and all that kind of shit, which is extremely normal for a rural area like this. He did play football in school too in ninth grade. Not this year, but the year before, ninth grade at Simmel Junior High School in Bismarck, he played. And a family acquaintance said that she'd heard from, I believe, Maureen that the family, the Nuga Bowers,

were having a hard time, quote, with the boy, meaning Michael, not Ryan, because he'd gotten into the wrong crowd at school, is the way they described it. And they described his girlfriend as kind of the- The wrong crowd. The wrong crowd, which is, his girlfriend is Jackie Hybe, H-I-E-B, Hybe. It's probably not Hebe, I would think is his girlfriend is Jackie Hybe.

H I E B Hybe. It's probably not he, but I would think we'll go with Hybe. I was going to say the opposite. Yeah, that's no good. I got two options here. The alternative sucks. Hi, Jackie Hybe thought about this long and hard all night. It's Jackie Hybe. 16 years old.

She is. She's a junior. So you're older than him. 16 years old she is, she's a junior, so a year older than him. Now, Michael apparently wanted to sell his 72 Monte Carlo, and that was a gift he got when he got his driver's license, and that was a part of it too. He goes, fine, if you're not going to let me have it, let me sell it, and they wouldn't let him sell it. So there's all of that.

That car's only 20 years old. Not even, this was like 91, this was half. Yeah. That's like giving your kid a 90, or a 2004 Honda right now. A 2005 Corolla is what you gave your kid. You're like, here's your piece of, yeah. That's amazing. Cause yeah, in the early, early 90s,

those classic cars were considered old cars at that point. They weren't quite classic cars yet. You know what I mean? They were still, there were some that were, I mean, old Chevelles and the Cudas and shit like that. Sure, sure. I mean, that was muscle cars. Yeah. But like I was dazed and confused the movie. I was reading about that and Richard Linklater, the director, was saying how all the cars they use in that movie and they're

all hot shit early seventies muscle cars. They have the fucking the judge there, the badass cars. They were all for sale to be bought. So when they when they got them, the judge model there, the purple one, $6000 he bought that for six in 1993 when they filmed the movie $6000. So that car was worth nothing. And that thing was in mint fucking condition too. And it was $6,000 fucking dollars back then. Whereas now that's a $200,000 car. Well, yeah, you can probably, I mean you can. 150, definitely.

Easy buck 50 for that thing. Yeah, it's crazy. That's crazy. I don't get into the expensive classic cars. No, no, no, no. I got Mike. I mean there was a Camaro and a, that Chevelle, that was all primer. You'd probably get that for two grand today.

Probably not though. That's the thing. They're all expensive. No, that's still a $15,000 car. It's crazy. At least. And if it's a real SS, you're looking at 30 grand for these things. Oh, it's at least.

It's unbelievable. At the very least. So by Nate late, or not Nate, late 1991, family is between all this shit with Michael. There's also problems with Maureen and Ronald as well. Ronald seems to be a big source of issue here. Maureen borrowed $2,500 from her parents, not to buy a classic car, but instead to get an apartment in Bismarck in late 91. She had gone and rented an apartment closer to her job and the rumor and everybody said was she moved out because of Ronald's temper. That was the thing that made her move out. Now she spent about half the money, she ended up moving back into the home at some point, so

there's a reconciliation. She spent about half the money getting an apartment and all that kind of thing and kept the rest of it on her person or in cash so she didn't have to declare it. She didn't want to put it in the bank because she didn't want to declare it as income, which she could have just anything under 10,000 as a gift. So she could have just done that. I think that was the same. Back then it was probably more. Who knows? I think that was the same back then probably more Who knows I think it's been the same for decades to 10,000 thing. I'm pretty sure so So she had this and apparently money was very tight for them The her mother Maureen's mother said the family didn't have much money So this was a lot of money to them to have that in there sure

So the move was not only so Maureen could be closer to her job at the University of Mary and she took Michelle with her, the daughter, so she could attend Century High School. So that's why they went to different schools, the son and the daughter, because they lived in different places. And the whole family though was back living together though by Christmas of 1991. That was fast. Yeah, so late 91 this all happened within a couple months by Christmas everybody's reunited which sounds sweet that sounds great. Yeah it's certainly family time so that's wonderful yeah that's nice and that's what

you'd want if your family's getting falling apart you'd want hey we're all back together again by Christmas. Reconciliation for Christmas. It's beautiful. I'll be home for Christmas. All that shit. You can hear it playing. It's fucking enough already. So good for them. Now by January, shit's a disaster again. Already?

Already, yeah. Within a month, things are not going well again. And it's a lot to do with Ronald and Michael fighting. Yeah. There's only so much peace the newborn king can bring, James. That's the only thing, yeah. It's very true, you know what I mean? You can sing Ave Marie all you want, but it's not gonna,

it's not gonna help if fucking Santa Claus isn't coming to town, you know what I mean? Sometimes Santa Claus is drunk and pissed. Sometimes he's pissed and he runs over your grandma. You never know. Reindeer. With a reindeer. So Michael in mid-January 92 attempts to run away.

He and Jackie try to run away together. Oh shit. Yeah. Where do they go? Not far. That's the problem.. They had like fucking I think we're alone now in a loop in their head. Yeah, we're gonna do this. We're gonna really do it So they probably just had to watch Romeo and Juliet in English class and they were like they got ideas from it

They didn't see it as a cautionary tale. That's like 10th grade. They not wake you watch that shit, right? Do you watch the end of that? I didn't watch the end of that. That's all right, let's go. Yeah, fuck, I don't know. I was absent that day. They broke it up over three days of class, I don't know. Didn't see the last part. I just heard forbidden love run away together. Let's do it.

It looked like things were gonna turn out well for them. Most movies like this, I feel like they're gonna end up together. You know what I mean? I foresee a lot of kissing. A lot of kissing that's gonna have a happy ending. So apparently the Nugebauer family was alerted to this fact when Michael didn't come home

one night and was absent from school the next day. That'll do it. It's a good sign. So Maureen asked her daughter, Michael's older sister, and her friend, an 18-year- old, a senior in school, a boy, last name of Wilson, to help find him. Will you go out and find your brother basically? So with a bunch of, it's not hard in a town of 72 people to find someone. You just ask a few people.

Have you seen him? Yeah, he's over there. They literally asked around, figured out where he was he and Jackie were at Prairie Public bingo He was playing what 15 year old runs away to play bingo first of all. That's the weirdest shit I've ever sounds like genius to me then No, cuz they found him. Yeah, it's not like he can hide there just cuz somebody saw him But if they said where do you think he is the last thing they're gonna say is check bingo I think there's only like five things to check though So it's like they get to bingo eventually you gotta get the fuck out of here if you're gonna run away

It's probably just laughs. He's sitting there. They won't notice me among all of the 90 year olds Shit, he's got a big fat marker in his hand So he tried to take off from them, but this Wilson guy grabbed him and tackled him and held him against the pavement until police arrived. Oh my God. Like he's a fucking criminal. Yeah. Which is crazy. Now they said that they thought maybe he was headed. They were headed south for Texas where Jackie's father lived. That's all they could think.

Maybe that's the only possibility. So they try to straighten out their son. They transfer him to a very different school here. It's the one where his sister goes to, Century. But they said he threw a fit, didn't want to be there. So his parents relented and let him go back to Bismarck High School. And things get better for about a week. Yeah. That punches them again.

Well the problem is they get better because Michael just locks himself in his bedroom for a while and won't talk to anybody. When they drag his ass home he just won't come out of his room. He just locks himself in his room. He was grounded from using his car here and all of that and they said the car was a big deal. The grandmother said he had that car too early. That's one thing. Too early? They got it. They gave him too nice a car too early. It's too much too soon. He couldn't handle it. You know what I mean? Things got a 400 in it. It's gotta be like, it's got it. Is it the who knows? I don't know what the fuck they would put in Monte Carlo It might be the same motor that goes in the Pontiac

Same fucking body basically different lights. It's got a Camaro motor. Yeah, you never know who the GM It's all the same shit. They just yeah, it was just put in different places, but Now we're gonna call it this. OK, it's the same car. What are you talking about? So Gladys Sherman, who is grandma to the kids and Maureen's mom, she characterized Michael as a good kid. He helped bring in the crops, like we said. She said he was always good.

We used to sit down and talk and all that kind of thing. And she just said, he's just such a nice kid. I don't understand what all the troubles about here. So around January 20th or so 22nd ish somewhere around there Michael Spends time with a police youth counselor at the request of his father His father was attempting to control his son's behavior So he was basically sending him to talk to people who might be able to crack through the shell of Michael is what they were trying to do. So talks to him doesn't seem to help much though as we'll talk about here. So then Sunday January 26 1992 comes up here.

Michael goes over to his dad's parents house who live in the in the main farmhouse there and his grandmother is home and goes I think his grandfather's parents' house, who live in the main farmhouse there, and his grandmother is home, and goes, I think his grandfather's dead, so it's just the grandmother's home at this point. And this is, like I said, Sunday night, January 26th, or Sunday afternoon. He takes a rifle and some ammunition from her attic. Oh.

He told her he's gonna go shoot some birds. So that's normal for him guns. I guess it's not what she doesn't even know but it's normal For him to shoot birds and shoot hunt and stuff like that So now the next morning Monday morning, right? There's some Michael goes over to his parents, to the grandparents house here. Hilda Nugabauer, by the way, this is grandma. Hilda Nugabauer, Hilda Nugabauer, hot. A lot of porn stars call themselves Hilda Nugabauer.

Just makes you, doesn't it just stiffen you right up, Jimmy? Rock hard right now. Too messent. Hilda, Hilda. Hilda Nugabauer. So, he went to this house next door in the morning and got another gun. A 35 caliber Remington automatic rifle. She describes as belonging to Michael's great grandfather.

Wow. That's an old rifle. Old rifle, yeah. And he didn't say anything. He just came in, grabbed the rifle, and then left. She saw him get in the family car, which is an 81 Pontiac. And fucking take off. So that's what she saw. Now where does he go?

Well, he went to school. He went to Bismarck High School. Not to go to school. He went to Bismarck High School. Not to go to school, though. No? He went there to pick up his girlfriend. Jackie. Yup.

But he's seen about 7 a.m., Monday morning, in the Bismarck High School breakfast commons area where he talked with a few students and showed around a wad of money as well. Why not? Apparently, he had a wad of cash. And so he's carrying this with him. He picks up Jackie there, while he's there, that's what he was doing, was waiting for Jackie. He went to her locker and said, let's go.

And she was like, all right, shit, school hasn't started yet, I guess fuck it, right? Sure. So he's driving a 1981 Pontiac with license plate BMR 116 and Jackie, when she leaves here, is seen wearing a ski jacket with blue and red and yellow squares, faded blue jeans, white high-top sneakers, and Michael's wearing a black jacket with fluorescent green stripes. Okay. 940 comes around.

This is a couple hours after he's at the school. And the Burleigh County Sheriff's Department is called at 940. Several units are dispatched to this farm. It's a cattle and grain farm they live on, by the way. Love it. They go and they find Hilda there. She's fine, doing fine.

Yeah, yeah. But they've been called to the address. Now her son, this is one of Ronald's brothers, Merle Sherman, or I'm sorry, that's the other mother, sorry. That's her son. They live there too. Yeah, they live near here too, so it's weird. Merle was the one that called authorities because Hilda

had called Murl, they're not related in-laws, but still had called Murl and said that something's wrong because Ryan hadn't gone to school today. What's going on? So yeah, so Murl came over to the house, drove over there to the farm and went up to the trailer to see what was going on and the doors locked and no one's answering but she hasn't seen the family come out she's only seen Michael leave so she's like there's definitely people home Ryan didn't go to school yeah so yeah and he said that this is what Merle said Hilda said she heard noises and that's all we got out of her she's just so worked up. She went bananas like I did Okay now

They talked to her and she said well last night. I heard quote several gunshots and the sound of screaming Coming from the trailer. Yes Now she called the trailer and Michael had answered the phone. This was at like late at night the trailer and Michael had answered the phone. This was like late at night, 11 o'clock at night. Michael answered the phone and she said he sounded nervous and he told her that he had to shoot a dog, is why. A wild dog got like in the property and that's he had to shoot a dog and his sister was screaming

because you know, whatever. There's a dog and it was trying to bite people and you know, it was a whole deal. So she said she looked out of her bathroom window. She saw someone walk from the trailer to the 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix that belonged to Michael's mother. OK. So Michael took off. That's about 1130 at night. He took off. And then by the morning, he's back again, saying he's going to go, saying,

grabbing that other rifle and just taking off without saying anything. Going to school and going to school exactly So the police need to look in this trailer obviously But they don't have to go too far because when they go around back of the trailer to check the back door of the trailer They find Maureen right there She is face down in the snow covered in blood. Oh outside face down in the snow a throw rug by the way when, outside. Face down in the snow, a throw rug, by the way, when they open the back door, there's a throw rug

on top of bloodstained carpet near the door. So a rug has been placed over this bloodstain. And it's fresh bloodstains, like they're not old bloodstains. Brand new. Brand new. So they obviously are very careful going into this house because they don't know what the fuck is in this house. Now they found a dead woman outside.

She's got gunshot wounds in her. Sure. So they find more bodies in here. They find the entire family, Ronald, Ryan, and Michelle, all in the house, all shot at least twice with a lever action rifle. Talk about eight, what was that, eight rounds? Well, they said about 11 rounds had been fired off

in the house, 10 rounds are spoken for when they do it and each body has two each in them, so. And grandma heard all that and then was like, yeah, dog. A dog. Yeah, we would do that. I mean, she is 81, so I mean, she might be not all that and then was like yeah dog a dog yeah I mean she is 81 so I mean she might be not all that with it or whatever but still screaming I mean come

on but I mean she called and they she said oh you had to shoot a dog sorry about that grandma didn't mean to fucking wake you guys up or whatever so you know she was like okay so this is this is a lot they said that apparently Ronald was shot in the in the neck back and thigh so he was shot three times Yeah accounts for the extra bullets Michelle was shot twice in the back apparently while kneeling over her father So Ronald was shot first Michelle went over to help her dad and was shot twice in the back.

That's fucking Bruce. He's a 16 year old girl. Like why are you shooting her in the back twice? And they Maureen, they said it looked like she was her body was moved by the way. And Ryan was also found in his room shot as well twice. Now on all the phones were ripped off the wall and unplugged is the other thing in the house. Yes. After that, which probably he didn't realize that till grandma called and went, oh shit, rip these fucking phones out of here. So it's wild. So the the autopsy shows that Michelle lived after being shot and then she was shot again outside the home

So she's she's all in out. She was trying to get out and he went out But it's unclear they said whether she's leaving or arriving, but we know she was leaving trying to get out Yeah, because she did it was she just slept all night at home She was shot once in the body and once in the back of the head outside. Mm-hmm Wow, mr. New bauer about bauer was shot Nuka bauer was shot in the back of the head and so was Ryan twice in the back of the head for a 12 year old That's brutal 11 shells recovered The bullets were found in the bodies or in the mobile homes interior. So he only missed once

the bullets were found in the bodies or in the mobile homes interior so he only missed once or twice probably out of that that's it's probably not so hard with a rifle indoors in a trailer there's not a lot of room to spread out plus I mean he shoots birds he's a good shot probably you know what I mean so they discover this and this is about 10 a.m. on January 27th so they said the bodies were moved from where they were shot. Some of them were shot at point-blank range. At least the second shot was point-blank. Put them down, walked over, finished them off. Like, you know, like a mob hit. Like fucking Chris and Snoop taught Mike to do on the fucking wire.

You know what I'm saying? That is brutal. All had multiple wounds. Missing from the house is the family car, the Pontiac, a 35 caliber Remington automatic rifle from Ronald's collection, and $1,200 from Maureen's purse in cash. $1,200. $1,200, which is a lot of cash to be flashing around a breakfast commons area at a high school. Yes, it is now officers also found in Michael's room letters from Jackie to Michael that revealed an ongoing plan to Leave the state with cash in a car Bonnie-and-clive natural killers were going now on $1,200 1200 we but when you're when you're fucking 15

$1,200 seems like the world because you could live on that for a week. So you'd think that's forever. There's no future when you're 15. Yeah, that'll get us to Sunday. Dude, 15 is the age of present. That's what it is, dude. There is no future. Yeah.

I mean, fuck. One of the neighbors who, when the cop showed up, was quote, loading silage. What is that? Putting shit in a silo maybe, I have no idea, with his son said that quote we didn't hear anything. They're close by neighbor they didn't hear shit. Now they said the weapon used in the murders is believed to be a high powered 32 caliber rifle that's missing from Ronald's extensive gun collection. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gabba was born into legal royalty.

Her specialty, representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals. However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marcia Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defense attorney, I've seen some crazy cases and this one belongs right at the top of the list.

She was addicted to the game she had created. She just didn't know how to stop. Now through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informants Lawyer X exclusively on Wondry+. Join Wondry+, in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C, True Crime shows, early and ad-free right now. In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered more exhibit C, True Crime shows early and ad free right now.

In a quiet suburb, a community is shattered by the death of a beloved wife and mother. But this tragic loss of life quickly turns into something even darker. Her husband had tried to hire a hitman on the dark web to kill her. And she wasn't the only target. Because buried in the depths of the internet is The Kill List, a cache of chilling documents containing names, photos, addresses and specific instructions for people's murders. This podcast is the true story of how I ended up in a race against time to warn those who lives were in danger.

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for all your true crime listening. From the award winning masters of audio horror. I see a face right up against the window. See you in the Wanderer app for all your true crime listening. comes the return of Dark Sanctum. Look. What is that coming under the door? It's blood. Oh, my God! Seven original chilling tales inspired by the Twilight Zone and Tales from the Crypt. Get back in your car.

Lizzie, it's okay. I'm here now. Josh, get in your car! Oh! Oh! Oh! here now. Josh get in your car. Starring Bethany Joy Lenz, Clive Stanton and Michael O'Neil. Welcome to the Dark Sanctum. Listen to Dark Sanctum season two exclusively on Wondry Plus. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple, or Spotify. Because he's been collecting guns and hand me down. Guns are like kind of heirlooms to these people too. They hunt their farm people.

Yeah. It's a common thing. Yeah. So they say, Michael, they're definitely looking for him here because he's not among the bodies. He is five foot eight inches tall, 130 pounds, a little tiny skinny shit. No kidding. I mean, that's a tiny little 15 year old. He has blue eyes, blonde hair, thought to be driving the 81 Pontiac Grand Prix two-door.

The state's attorney is already involved and said her office is pursuing several leads searching across the state and that an APB was put out over several states and she said I don't know where he is or who he may or may not be with. Now grandma definitely says he's armed because he came over and got the 35 caliber rifle that used to belong to you know great grandpa there. She said that that Michael has not contacted the family but she speculates they said do you know anywhere they could possibly be going right and grandma says that he and his girlfriend are probably headed south for Texas where

her father Orville lives, lives down there. He said, I know they are. He always talked about going to someplace like Cancun. That's Mexico. That's me. He saw like spring break on MTV and was like, all right, I'm gonna live there forever and just wait till Pauly Shore shows up every fucking year. Pauly Shore and Dan Cortez make their appearance,

I'll be here. Yeah. Oh, what's her name, what's her name? Daisy Fuentes pops up. And downtown Judy Brown. Julie? Yeah, Julie. Judy, right?

Julie Brown? Julie, Julie, yeah. Downtown Julie Brown. Yeah downtown Julie Brown And if he ever had a lot of money, he was going to live there because he took a lot of money $1,200 is not enough to relocate to another country. No for two people She said I don't know what happened at home because they were getting along good He wanted to get away and I don't know why something happened something like that. He was a good kid. He was smart good in school They said you know any idea why he might have slaughtered his whole family and she's got me

T-tops Grand Prix is pretty fucking rad 81 Grand Prix is not a good car. No, that's a bad car. This is an ugly car Why didn't he take the fucking why didn't he take the Monte Carlo? He'd have to put the wheels back on it. Oh, that's right. Get it off the cinder blocks. It's a lot going on. Now, they're warning, by the way, the state's attorney Patricia Burke is warning that he's very dangerous and to look out for him. Yeah. She said, there's every indication that this individual is very dangerous and may not hesitate

to kill again. There are aspects of the autopsy and physical evidence that indicate that we're not dealing with the average flash-in-the-pan murder. This is a cold and calculated act." She said he was familiar with the back roads and could elude a nationwide police search that law enforcement were doing at this point. She warned the public to not approach Nugebauer but immediately go to police. She described him as armed and dangerous. They said, do you think he's dangerous? And she said, if you've possibly

killed four people, what's one more? When you've probably killed four people. Possibly. They also think Jackie might be a hostage, is what they're saying. You might have taken her as a hostage rather than a, you know, partner in crime Bonnie and Clyde situation. So they said that she they said that she had called apparently the day after because they're looking the next day she called a friend of hers saying she just learned about the killings and was scared to death. Oh boy. She said she didn't know about it. Her mother said I'm sorry this is a friend of her mother, said Jackie called a girlfriend Tuesday and said they were in Bismarck.

She couldn't talk and she was scared to death and that she had to hang up. That's all they knew. Now we don't know if that's just a plant. She called someone to say we're in Bismarck when we're not in Bismarck, just so they look for them in Bismarck, or if she's really in Bismarck and scared.

We have no idea. No fucking idea. So they said, again, the prosecutor said, we're dealing with a young man who we allege has murdered four members of his family. So anything's possible here. They said Jackie does not face charges, so she needs, there's no evidence that she did any of the murdering.

So they just want to talk, they just want to get her back. They said they found letters from them going back and forth and so they had an ongoing plan to obtain money and take a vehicle and leave the state. Right. So they're given two different things. She's a hostage and a victim, but at the same time, they have plenty of proof that they've been planning

something along these lines. Maybe without the murder, there's no mention of killing anyone to get the money. Sure. It's just get money. Now in a Wisconsin motel room, Jackie says she didn't know about the murders till they reached a motel room in Wisconsin.

Oh, is that right? Which is the opposite direction of Bismarck, so that makes me think she called her friend to plan a false lead. Okay. And she said that he told her he pinned her to the bed and she said am I and I'm next and he said yes he was gonna kill her too. So that's where they're at on the run. Okay. Now a school friend of his here said that quote he was angry but he never

made any threats. He never said anything violent or about doing anything like shooting or anything like that. So this is his hunting buddy Don Peterson said, he never led me to suspect he was unhappy at home. He'd share other things, but he didn't say he didn't say anything about this. No, I talked to him yesterday around 2pm. That would be the Sunday that he actually did the killings that night. And everything was fine. He didn't sound agitated and one of the neighbors the Salters is the name of

Farmers named named the Salters really is a ironic Nothing will grow everybody. So Having a tough season tough season damn it. They live about a quarter mile south of the Nuga Bauer family. They said, but we weren't really close to Ron, though real close to his folks. They're good people. I know that. So that means these people are 80 that they talk to. So there are sightings of him though. Yeah. Sightings of both of them at a Kmart store in Billings, Montana, about 4pm the Wednesday after the murders. Getting a sandwich puppy. Getting, obviously.

Got to go get those old, remember those old sandwiches they had? Those cellophane wrapped fucking sandwiches. No, no snack bar. Oh yeah. Fucking Kmart. That's some trash shit, but I love that sandwich man. That was awesome. That sandwich was so good. They used to have the snack bar and then the jewelry counter and the line of people for

the snack bar would wrap around the jewelry counter. That poor bastard working at the jewelry counter had nobody buying it. These people can't buy cheap shit jewelry. Come on. They'd have that like in the back, like the little cafe thing, but then they'd have like a fuck, the slushy stand would be like in the middle of the store with like popcorn and slushies and shit that was they really had a go at it. 80s Kmart was the shit.

That was right next to the fitting rooms. Steel underwear. Steel everything. So then somebody reported them heading west on Interstate 90. Montana law enforcement agencies also had unconfirmed reports that he was seen in Billings at a thrift store trying to cash and also trying to cash a check at a gas station near the interstate. But then the Great Falls, Montana

Tribune reported that that a boy and a girl matching their descriptions were seen Tuesday after Tuesday afternoon in a Great Falls thrift store and their behavior was described as guarded. Oh I don't know what that even means so suspicious. I guess guarded not wanting to talk to you I probably I mean I probably seem guarded to a lot of places where I don't want to talk to you, probably. I mean, I probably seem guarded too in a lot of places where I don't wanna talk to the people. So one of the cops here, the sheriff, said, we did, through the night, receive about four other calls

at the 911 center about possible sightings, and again, those calls were checked out and again, were unfounded. So they said it's not unusual or undesirable to get reports. So please, if you think you see him call up It doesn't it doesn't derail the whole investigation to send one guy out to a fucking gas station ask a question So go ahead and do it. They said we have there have been unverified sightings, but there's really no substance that we can verify Now there's a memorial service for his family. Obviously, I would assume the whole town would show up

Probably 72 people you should probably be able to draw. I would assume the whole town would show up. Probably, there's only 72 people. You should probably be able to draw that, I would hope. You know? I just said draw that, like their comics. Jesus Christ. But true. If you can't draw that in death. What are you drawing?

What are you drawing at your funeral? That's not the right terminology, I don't think. Is it not? For us, it is, because we're asshole comedians. But for the rest of the people, they're going draw. That's how we talk. So they said tons of people showed up, dozens of schoolmates from the children.

They held these services in Bismarck because I don't know where there is to hold them in fucking Monoccan. They had four closed caskets. Jesus, that's a lot of caskets man and photographs and all that kind of thing they had a handwritten note the note from the child from this kid to a classmate to Ryan describes Ryan as a good friend and said the two hardest things to do will be to go on and to say

goodbye the note gives Ryan a sports medal. It's attached to the note because they had apparently played on the same sports team and Ryan had lost his medal from the team. So this guy was giving him his medal to be buried with. So now the families are trying to get the teens to turn themselves in because it's days are going by. It's like the end of the week now. I'm like where could the fuck these two kids be? $1,200 is gonna run out quick. Yeah, they're driving a car that we know the license plate of like how are we not finding these fucking people? They're driving a shit car that we know it's gonna break down. Yes, and he looks like a kid He doesn't look like a 20. He looks like hey, why is that child driving that car? He's 5'8 130 pounds blonde Mullet like a motherfucker

by the way mullet not long hair short on top shaved on sides fucking mullet poppin joe dirt style he is hardcore so anyway the family publishes a letter to them it's an appeal from both families from jackie's family and from the Nuga Bauer clan here To gave it to the Associated Press to distribute and it says quote Please stop whatever happened in your home in Monac and whatever you've done. Please stop now. Don't make it any worse Don't bring any more tragedy into the lives of people who love you No one knows what terrible pressures you may have been under, but your life is not over. Jackie's life is not over. Things change with time. People change. We want to help and we can. Don't try to drive home. For yours and everyone else's safety, stop

now and talk to a police officer. Call any of us or this newspaper. Please, Michael." And then it said, the Nuga Bauer family, Ivan and Gladys Sherman, Eileen Heinle and Larry Heinle, who are Jackie's mother and stepfather. So they said that they start to get affidavits from people now. They're trying to figure out, piece together what happened. So they have different affidavits of people talking about the family. And they said that they had, a few different people said that Michael had quote previously commented to individuals that he should kill

his father and or his family. What the fuck Mike? So February 8th, 1992, it's been a while. It sure has. The 27th he took off. He made it stretch man. That is wild. They are at the Rhodes Motel,

R O A R H O A D S Rhodes Motel in Sarasota, Florida. Wow. Let's go there. They got all the way down there. Now they received the FBI received in information that they might be in central Florida somewhere. So they have police forces looking for their might be in central Florida somewhere. So they have police forces looking for their car specifically in central Florida. They give like all the police forces in central Florida get an alert to look for this car. So they get a few tips that they're that they were headed east and possibly headed to Florida. So Robert Smith, who's a Sarasota police sergeant, not the guy

who from the band, different guy, he spotted, Robert Smith, he spotted a 1981 white Pontiac with North Dakota license plates, which probably sticks out like a sore thumb in fucking Sarasota, Florida. Really, North Dakota plates sticks out no matter where you are. Even in North Dakota you're like, wow there's other people here, holy shit, thought I was alone. You got one too? I was wondering why my license plate said three on it. Must have been somebody else here. Look at you with a six, holy shit, there's more of us. Wow, thank you. So together This police sergeant spots the car at a mo at the Rhodes Motel at about 1 30 a.m Okay, middle of the night. So after police spotted the call of the car they called the

Manager of the motel this guy's my favorite person in this whole story. His last name is Roddow sock Rada sock us. Okay, R. O D O U S S a K is my favorite person in this whole story. His last name is Radousakis, okay? R-O-D-O-U-S-S-A-K-I-S. Two S's? Two, it's Greek, obviously. We had trouble with a Greek name earlier this week, with crime and sports, we're gonna. So, they called him and they said,

look, there's a car outside, do you see that car? He said yes, they said, can you give us the description of the people who? Yeah, so basically that's something they register and he said yes the people in the car registered so they said okay gave them the descriptions to blonde kids The SWAT team is sent at this ball. Oh shit now this motel manager who I fucking love because he's just hilarious He's so like this is none of my business, I'm just an observer, like he's watching it on TV and it's hilarious, okay? He said he met Jackie the day before, Rodosakis, late Friday afternoon when she came into the

motel's office and they were in the Pontiac before that. This guy said that Jackie's hair was wet and she was shivering even though it was over 70 degrees outside. She told him, the manager, that she and her little brother, who have been traveling together from North Dakota, had been at the beach earlier that day so they were just wet and cold. Freezing. Freezing. Had been at the beach earlier that day so they were just wet and cold freezing freezing So it's the Gulf Coast in Central Florida here and the motel is about seven miles from the ocean So it's inland a little bit here. So this guy Manny Rotosakis here. He said that she signed for the room

She said that Nuga Bauer the other the blonde kid was her brother She used a correct address filling out the registration card. Really? And but didn't use her correct name. She signed her name. I'll find Deb Prisdy. P R I S T E, which is probably somebody from school or something. Deb. Deb. I am Deb. Yeah, it's the room was $32 and 75 cents and she paid for it with a $50 bill. And she told him that they wanted a double bed. Wow. Which is fun as shit. She said, quote, he's my brother. We sleep together all the time.

Which he goes fucking North Dakota and he's shaking his head. God damn weirdoes up there. So he said he believed her because they looked alike. They're both blonde. I mean, it's just, you would look at them. Yeah, they could be brother and sister. Why not? And because she said it and she said it you don't know those fucking people and he told he said that he normally asked for identification from young people trying to check in. But he thought she was about 19 or 20 and she gave me cash. Yeah. And he said, I feel kind of strange because nine out of ten people, I'll check

their IDs, but she just seems so wholesome. Her and her little brother were on the road together and, you know, just trying to help the kids out. She said, yeah, he signed it. She signed the form there. He said, she was a sweet kid. I gave her one of the better rooms because I liked her right away. Her and her brother.

He said, they just looked like two normal kids. I had no reason to doubt anything they said. Wow. Which is why you ask for IDs to begin with because you never know. After checking in, Michael and Jackie went swimming at the outdoor pool. Oh, that's nice.

That's nice, they're gonna get that all in there. He said, this is the manager, said they played around in the water just like kids. They look like just a couple of blonde kids from the Midwest. They later asked him where they should go to eat around here and they returned to the motel shortly afterward.

They ended up getting McDonald's because a receipt found later was for two hamburgers and a cheeseburger. They found a McDonald's bag, two empty Coca-Cola cans, and an empty pack of Marlboro lights are also in there. Oh, they're smoking too. Of course they are smoking. He's got a mullet, Jimmy. The Marlboro lights come with that

haircut. When they shave up those sides, they give you a pack of Marlboro lights and send you on your way. That's how it works. Get on out there and do something. Holy shit. So he said that he saw Nugaabauer come out of the room at about 930 p.m. to get some ice and he said and that's the last I saw of him he did a walking tour of the motel a half hour later and the room was dark he figured they went to sleep he said that this manager said he's he's dealt seen death and dealt with it a lot while he served in Vietnam for multiple tours.

Oh my god. He said, but kids? For Christ's sake, blonde, blue eyed, beautiful kids? It freaked me out. It just doesn't make any sense. The world is on its axis, man. This is off its axis. It's all fucked up.

Yeah, I can see some Vietnamese children, but no. Blonde hair, blue eyes, they're just wholesome. It's one thing to burn down a village, but these kids are blonde. I don't get it fuck So the raid comes up here the SWAT team shows up and the manager said they said the boy may or may not have been Involved in a murder and that's all they told me Now this guy was woken up when the police called and wanting to see the room registration for this and this guy was at another location. He had to arrive to the motel.

The motel consists of three separate buildings and police evacuated six people from the building where Jackie and Michael were staying. That building has eight rooms. The police also block off all the streets around it. They make a big deal out of this. And the manager puts it this way. This is amazing. In the meantime, a big truck pulls up and all these ninja guys get out. Fucking ninja guys are in this guy is awesome. Yeah. I want to hear him describe everything. Ninja guys that said SWAT on their chest. They were the

SWAT ninja guys get out throwing stars at the door. I was like, hey. Flash bangs and stars and smoke. Oh man. But they're wearing hoods carrying their fucking rifles and laser sights and all that kind of shit. This guy estimated there was 30 police officers heading up to the room. Oh, they weren't kidding. SWAT team officers hide behind bushes, position themselves all around the door to the room. FBI agents surround the motel from the other sides. They have an ambulance parked nearby in case there's a shootout So they discuss how they're gonna do this and this is the fucking funniest part There's 30 plus armed like federal fucking and state people here

Including like the SWAT team like a tactical assault team. Yeah, and they're like, what do we do? They said well, we maybe we'll try to break down the door or maybe we'll Maybe we'll do this because by the way, these rooms are so wonderful. They don't even have a phone in the room There's no phone Okay, so they said here's maybe we'll do this Maybe we'll fucking throw a rock through the window and throw a cell phone into the room and we can talk to them that way. Then finally someone said, why don't we just knock and see what happens?

Good idea. Let's just try that. Take a chance. Let's just knock you. They might just open the door and let us in. We might just might be doing all this for nothing. Throw a rock through the window, throw a cell phone in. What if they don't have any, what if that scares the shit out of them?

That's what I mean. Like I said, they would, yeah, call. I don't know what the fuck. And I think that's what somebody said goes. And then also if you kick down a door, if someone has a gun, that's the time to use it when someone kicks your fucking door in. You know, it's that's that's when you would be reaching for it. So they're probably it's like on the wire again the wire reference, but when they go to bust

Fucking Avon at the one point when he's at like his kind of home like his base with all the guns when they were ready For war and the guys got a battering ram and McMillan. He's like whoa. Whoa. They're warring with a drug crew You batter the fucking door and they're gonna open fire on us all. Why don't we try knocking? They knocked and open the door and that was that much easier So anyway, they knock on the door. They said they knocked on the door They the police saw the curtains move inside, but no one answered the door They tried to peek out of the curtains like maybe it's nothing So the police go to the door and they knock and they this the manager heard Jackie yell

What's going on? We didn't do anything and they knock and the manager heard Jackie yell, what's going on? We didn't do anything. What do you want? And they're the whole time, they're saying Michael, Nuga Bauer, get out here, we know you're in there, all that kind of shit. So the manager of the motel said

they knew the kid had a gun, they didn't know whether he was gonna come out shooting. He said, I heard a boom and then Nuga Bauer, we know you're in there, come out. That's what Jackie said, she heard a boom and then Nugabauer, we know you're in there, come out. That's what Jackie said she heard from inside. The manager said, the girl was yelling, what do you want? What's going on? And police were at that point, while this is going on in the front door, the FBI agents

out back noticed someone trying to jump out of the back window of the place. Who's that? It's Michael trying to escape. And the manager said he heard them, quote, yell at him. Don't even think about it because he had his gun on him, too. So he dropped the gun. I suppose or no, he didn't drop the gun because he didn't have a gun. We find out. Oh, OK. At that point, the motel room's door came open and Michael walked back in

through the motel room, walked out the front door. Police took him to the ground, handcuffed him. The manager said, the girl was yelling, don't hurt him. What have we done? That kind of thing. I feel sorry for her. I believed her. This guy's just a sucker.

We know for a fact now. And he's still like, I believe her. I don't know what it is. I still believe her. I think he just liked her. I think he thought she was a piece of ass or something I don't know what it was or reminded her maybe he's an older guy or reminded him of his daughter I don't fucking know but the manager said that by the way the kids were taken away in separate vehicles the manager said he found a receipt in the

room for a deck of playing cards they bought Friday night and he said I just can't imagine if I'd done murder on my family. Like I'm playing cards, this is crazy. But he said the police though, he was very impressed with the whole operation, he said. This guy just ate popcorn watching this, just getting his Kmart IC. You did it, this is wild.

So he said that they, he said they were quote, very efficient and very nice to Nuka Bauger and Jackie once they were captured. So they were quote very efficient and very nice tanooka bauger and jackie once they were captured So they were very professional police searched the room Um, and the couple's clothes were taken as well as one of the bedsheets A police spokesman said no weapons were found in the room Okay. All right. The car was impounded obviously, um, they're gonna search the car Looking for a 22 caliber handgun, 32 caliber rifle, a 31 caliber rifle, and a 12 gauge shotgun, which are all missing from

the house. They said they also seek documents, including travel, indicating travel routes, motel receipts, restaurant receipts, ammunition, clothing, and many items belonging to the murder victims. The search did not find any of that stuff, by the way. No? Nothing. Where the hell is it? They did find an envelope with the name Michelle written on it. They also found a broken scissor handle, a Wisconsin road map, and a tan lock box containing jewelry belonging to his mother and sister.

So, he took that to sell along the way here, so Michael is going to be taken to a juvenile facility here for now He's not made any statements to police right away. He's arrested with a federal warrant for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution for murder Jackie on the other hand is at the YMCA shelter in Sarasota. They send her to oh Her mother Eileen said that Jackie was homesick and wanted to come home soon. This woman, her mom said, but we know she's okay. And she said that she, Jackie said she was healthy and you know, everything was fine. So Jackie legally was classified as a runaway, not a fucking fugitive from the law. So she's classified as a runaway

and is being held on that basis. There's no criminal charges pending against Jackie. She's considered a witness at this point. At this point. Now, Jackie's mom said she expects her daughter to be home late Monday, this is like a Saturday they're talking about this, but didn't know how she would be returned. And she said, the mother said it's more than likely that her daughter didn't know anything about these murders, obviously. Yeah. She said friends and family know that she would not have gotten in that car with Nuga Bauer if she had known. She had nothing along. She was it was just a normal day for Jackie that was not planned. And he did he just showed up at school was like, let's go. Let's for Jackie. That was not planned. And he just showed up at school and was like, let's go. Let's get out. Let's get out. Now, Larry,

who is Jackie's stepfather, told the Tampa Tribune that Jackie had stayed overnight with a friend the Sunday night the murders took place. He said that she had been at the friend's home all night and that he's confident that she had no role in the killings. So and then this is Michael's grandmother told the same paper that her grandson always wanted to go to the Cayman Islands in the Caribbean and that he went where he said he was going to go and considering that his capture was in Florida, quote, he was just one step away. That's a pretty big step, though. Entering a foreign country is a much different. He thought he was going to get there with 1200. Sure, you might get there, but then

what? Then what are you going to do? You're 15. You look like a child. So, wow, that is fucking insanity. Hilda, by the way, here is living with a family in Bismarck and will get an apartment this month. She wants off the farm What does I want to be there where her you know, son was? And his family were killed next door. She was the last person to see Michael obviously his other grandmother told the Bismarck Tribune that Michael had been intrigued by Cancun as well and She said I don't know. we don't know why this happened.

He was a real good kid, a smart boy who worked hard on the farm. That's what hurt me. He's only 15. This is such a terrible waste. Now Jackie said, when they talked to Jackie, she said his dad was abusing his brother fighting all day. Because they're like, why did he do this? Because he's not talking at this moment. So they said,

did he tell you why? Jackie said, I tried calling ring, ring, ring at that moment. I knew something wasn't right. So she tried calling Michael apparently. And nobody answered. She said he wasn't thinking. He didn't realize what he was doing. Anything moving he was not thinking. He snapped. He just shot whatever was moving. The phones had been ripped off the wall and Jackie said she had no idea what had happened. She said the first night I didn't sleep at all. I didn't sleep all night. I could feel it. You know, something was going on. They said what if you had gone there? You know, what if you, they said said she said what if she had gone to the farm and intervene because she knew something was wrong and they asked her what if you had gone there and she said I probably wouldn't be here right now probably would kill me too. So she says she says the look in his eyes I will never forget it there was nothing there when he said let's go. Let's get out of here Just was like real weird here. So

that day Here apparently the day following the murders We'll talk about that Michael drove around in his mother's car because the murders happened at 1130 at night. Oh He came back early morning to get the rifle get the money and take off He drove around his mother's car all in his mother's car all night from midnight on just all night till the morning. Wow. That's when he went to Bismarck and he went and found Jackie. He said, he walked up to my locker and said, we're running away. And I said, okay,

didn't take much to prompt her here. I was, she said, I was never scared of him. So she just got in the car. She said I knew something had happened. He was beat up. A typical night, always chaos. So she just figured his dad beat him up again. She didn't even ask what's wrong with your eye or anything like that. She thought they were running away and she said once they got to a motel room, it changed in Wisconsin. She said we got up to the hotel and he is frantic and he said he killed his family and he threw me on the bed and got on top of me And I asked am I next and he said you read my mind She said in fact after he killed his family he went to my house because he was going to kill me too

Is that right? But then by 7 a.m. He changed his mind and said no I need somebody to run away with come with me But he was gonna go why would he kill Jackie because his dad beats him up that doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever But I guess he was just wiping out everybody he knew he didn't even think to kill grandma though Or he's just just Josh and you know yes So or maybe he's trying to scare her so she doesn't try to call the cops possibly or run away Yeah, she said after everything that happened. It was all such a whirlwind I was thrown into the psych ward for months then a group home and then foster care

Oh Jackie ended up. She said she's gonna try to move on from the whole thing She said though, but there were a couple times where I contemplated taking my life I felt like I had this icky secret the abuse all the time knowing the truth of what happened and wishing I could have fixed it I had a lot of blame on myself a lot of different emotions every day that I battled not a day I don't wake up every every day that I battled not a day I don't wake up and think about the family listen you're you're 16, there's only so much you can do. You can't stop that from happening. You can try to tell the correct people, which is what you did, and then you have to hope that the adults take over responsibly and do the thing you need them to do because you're 16. You don't have any recourse in this. So

that's fucking horrible. She doesn't need to feel guilty for that though. That's not her fault at all. She tried. She's the only fucking one who tried right? She's the only person in this whole story You shouldn't feel guilty about that anyway so Why what the fuck happened? Apparently Michael had an argument with his father that night about chores And Michael tried to leave and his father wouldn't

let him leave. So he said he got a gun from his grandmother's house and shot his father in the living room. That's how it went. Wouldn't let him leave. Well, he said, quote, I was tired of it. He was just tired of it all. He said the argument with his father was about whether Michael was doing his work around the house and on the farm. And he just didn't want to deal with his dad anymore because he knew it was going to escalate to abuse. He said that he does not remember shooting his mother, sister, or brother. He said, I remember the first shot with my dad.

That was on purpose. I fucking meant that shit. I don't remember anything else. I don't even remember the other two shots into my dad. Never mind everybody else. He said that he was deathly afraid from getting another beating from his father. And he said after that first shot, two shots into my dad, nevermind everybody else. He said that he was deathly afraid from getting another beating from his father,

and he said after that first shot, his memory is like if you're blackout drunk basically. It's just a flash here, a flash there, but nothing of the killing. Stills. Yep. So it ended apparently, yeah, it was a fight. His grandmother's house was only 50 yards away,

so he walked 50 yards, got the rifle, rifle got the ammunition came back to the mobile home And was in the living room when his father came out of the bedroom. I guess Ronald asked him said what the hell is going on because he was in the living room with a rifle and that's when he shot his father and The prosecutor said basically he indicated it was a snap thing It took 10 minutes or so just to go get the gun though. So, they're like, it's not a snap thing if you had to go get the gun 50 yards there, 50 yards back. It's time to cool off is what she's saying basically.

So, because they're already, you know, trying to get the charges up. So, Ryan and Michelle were in their bedrooms at the time. Michelle was killed in the hallway to the master bedroom. Ryan was killed in his own bedroom where he was cowering and hiding. Hiding. Gunshots. Yeah, because he heard the noise. Yeah. Maureen had been outside and was killed outside too. So, fuck man. I guess he then got the

other gun from his grandmother's house, got some of his personal belongings from his room. When he came home with the gun from his grandmother's house to shoot everybody, first he went to his room to get some shit, so he was planning on, he was gonna leave right then, he had that. That's what his father said, he said, what the hell's going on here? And his father said, if you got a gun,

I'm gonna get one too, is what he said. He said, that's why he shot him. We're gonna draw down. He said, I just wanted out, I couldn're gonna draw down. He said I just wanted out, I couldn't get out, he turned and I shot. He said his father fell straight down, just right to the ground. He said and everything was quote, like looking into a tunnel instantly. He said that his sister appeared and he shot her almost on reflex. So that he remembers. It was like a reflex. He just was like, boom, oh shit, you're here too.

His mother grabbed him and he said the gun went off again. When his mother grabbed him, he chased his mother outside and shot her, then came back in the house. Then he reloaded the gun and shot his brother twice. So he had time to stop and reload. He did not have to shoot his brother at all He could have just taken the fuck off

Everybody knows you did it bro like your brother. It's not like you're killing the witnesses leave your 12 year old brother alone He has nothing to do with this. I mean that way we'll get you the death penalty right there That's pretty pretty meditated as it gets it's fucking in Har they is reloaded man, so he then packed some clothes and left in his mother's car and That's fucking wild. So the family does not want Michael to get the inherit his father's estate No, he can't and because they're saying at this point he's in line to do that So he's the only one left. So they said they are using the 1978 Josephson family murder in hazen, Hazen, North Dakota as legal precedent

to have Michael barred from the family's inheritance. In that case, which sounds familiar, I don't know if we covered this or not, Russell and Robin Josephson were shot to death in their beds by their 13 year old adoptive son, Michael. I think we did do this. Michael also? Michael, again, he served, that was just the most common name in the 70s though. It was very common. He served two years at the state industrial school after being adjudicated as a delinquent in the shootings. They tried him as a juvenile. Two years later, the North Dakota Supreme Court ruled that the younger Josephson had committed a felony and was not entitled to an inheritance from his parents' estate. So they start the same thing here. The probate action was started naming Bob Nugentbauer of Monackin, who's one of Ronald's

brothers, as his personal representatives. And in the petition to the court, they're asking to be named personal representative. This guy is. Nugentbauer says he has reason to believe Michael Nugentbauer may not be entitled to inherit anything from the decedents. So, um, the one lawyer says that if he's found guilty of the killings, he should be disinherited just as the Josephson boy was. State probate laws say anyone who has feloniously caused the death of another may not share in any inheritance.

Which makes all the sense in the world. That way you can't kill someone for money. Right, exactly. I mean, you'd be sitting in prison, but you'd still have the best commissary going. You know, like, that's crazy. In the Josephson case, an attorney for Michael said that because he had not been,

since he had been adjudicated in juvenile court, he had not technically been convicted of a felony. And the Supreme Court disagrees with that. So that's what they're trying to fight. Meanwhile, the prosecutor doesn't know if anyone will collect the $2,000 cash reward for the tip that led to Michael's capture. There are, let's give it to that fellow down there at the, there's, let's just give it to Manny, the hotel manager, just cause he's fun. He's fun. Yeah. But he killed four people. Uh huh. Then possibly they didn't know. They thought then possibly kidnapped a 16 year old girl is holding her hostage around the country.

And they went, what, two grand? Do you think is enough? Probably just two grand. Let's not go crazy. We started with 150 bucks and nobody said nothing, so we upped it to two grand, I don't know, we'll see what happens. Like that's not really all hands on deck with two grand. The prosecutor said, I'm not aware of anyone putting in a claim for it. Now, the big question is will he be tried as? An adult.

Or a kid. And those are extremely different outcomes. Yeah. Extremely different. Yeah. I am always of the opinion personally, a 15 year olds, a 15 year old. Yeah. Somebody there's a reason we don't let them vote or drive unless you're in a farm or fucking, you know, buy tobacco or gamble or join the army or work or do anything that requires any sort of decision making or maturity because they don't have it yet. Yeah.

They're basically a bag of hormones with a hard dick at this point. So it's a different thing. They can't be in the workplace. They are an HR nightmare. No, it's amazing though. If you went on a job interview and said you were 15, they're like, well we can't hire you, you're a child, then you went outside and murdered everybody

and come back in and go, I'm an adult now, according to the state. So like, I get that we, especially in the 90s, that shit wasn't plain at all, because that was like, these kids are the worst thing ever and they were talking about super predator children who were walking around at 12 who had drug empires and were murdering everybody.

There was so much fucking media just scaring on that. Everybody thought about it. They didn't treat them. Here's an editorial in the local newspaper. Did Michael Nugebauer really kill his entire family, as the first line? If this teenage boy's defense attorneys convince the North Dakota Supreme Court to leave the question in the hands of the juvenile authorities, the public will never know the answer. Such a decision for closure wouldn't be good for Michael Nugabauer, who wouldn't have a chance

to confront his accusers in a public fashion, and it wouldn't be good for the community which felt the wounds of this tragedy for months afterwards. The issue is whether Nugebauer should be tried in open adult court. These considerations on teenage crime happen all the time, but Nugebauer's is no common case. He was 15 at the time of the January 26th murder of his parents, his brother, his sister at their Monocan farm home. The murders and Nugabauer subsequent escape to Florida were national news. Presuming he was to plead innocent, he would have a courtroom trial in which anybody could walk in and watch. The proceedings would be public information every day.

If his case is tried in juvenile court, the proceedings in record are closed to the public under North Dakota law. Okay, but that's who cares. in juvenile court, the proceedings and record are closed to the public under North Dakota law." Okay, but that's, who cares? That's... After reviewing the results of the psychiatric evaluation at the state hospital in Jamestown, South Central District Judge Dennis Schneider on April 16th is talking about whether he will stand trial as an adult. But defense attorneys Rodney Felder and William Schmidt appealed to the judge saying that he would probably be rehabilitated through juvenile programs. You can't, don't throw them away at us, what they're saying. The briefs contain references to how well Nugabauer has behaved during his few months of incarceration at the state industrial

school in Mandan and that the defense attorneys argued that he had been volunteering for extra chores. And it says in the article goes on to say, now that ought to comfort us all. And used as other supporting quote evidence, some statements from juvenile authorities who saw potential for his quote rehabilitation. As they're written, the appeals briefs assume guilt.

They concentrate almost exclusively on the fitness of the state to mete out counseling, but they don't offer evidence that he didn't commit the crime. Yet investigations after the murder alleged a family crisis. Marital problems, some hotheadedness, disputes over Michael's relationship with his girlfriend. In fact, the appeal brief contains ominous reference to allegations of recent unruly behavior about the boy made by his father just days before the murders. So it's not about the father's been abusing him. He's been abusing the family and the father. So they're saying a bad kid. Just

a bad seed, man. Yeah, it bubbled over. How can anyone, how can anybody know what really happened that night? Why should anyone automatically presume Michael Nugabauer coldly killed his entire family? Was anyone else involved? And do we presume from the tone of the appeals brief he told juvenile authorities that he committed the crime? More questions come to mind. If Michael Nugabauer did in fact kill his family and he stays at, under the state, under juvenile authority,

can the community comfortably sleep at night after his release in two to four years? Are they secure enough to prevent his escape or to prevent violence by him or against him? And is, quote, peer group rehabilitation rather than punishment by criminal incarceration appropriate for someone accused of committing a multiple murder. Juvenile authorities are trained to straighten out wayward kids, and we've no doubt they would try their best. But the argument for adult court is that the checks and balances of public scrutiny help ensure justice is served and understood by the community at large, not just by a few

specialists entrusted with that power. The dramatic case of Michael Nugebauer is too big for the juvenile system. We shouldn't wring our hands over whether he belongs in adult prison until we answer the central question, in adult court, with the whole world watching, did Michael Nugabauer kill his family? Even though he says, absolutely I did, yeah.

Yeah, he did it, yeah. But that's of interesting, they're saying he should be tried in adult court, not for us, we want to punish him But for him but for the the freedom of open court Yeah, not because we want to try a 15 year old as an adult. That's crazy So they said if the teenage boys defense attorneys convince the North Dakota Supreme Court to leave the question in the hands of the juvenile Authorities the public will never know the answer such a decision for closure wouldn't be good for him. So yeah, big deal.

Anyway, is there going to be a trial or what's going on here? Well, we got to know. Prosecutors are saying that it doesn't matter if he remembered what he had done, claiming that he told several versions of what happened that night to different people So whether he did it doesn't matter fact as he did it. So that's all they're saying now He's going to plead guilty for his dad's murder by the way the judge rules It is adult court not juvenile court. Is that right? He's an adult at 15 Yeah, so head on out to the titty bar Mike. You got this Apparently you're allowed in This is magically we can adju and I'm not obviously I don't want teenage killers to get away with shit

I'm just yeah, it's weird that we can just adjudicate someone older than they are. That's just crazy I adjudicate your brain be more developed than it actually is as a weird fucking thing It's too severe of a crime. So I have that's what it is. Read it with what it deserves Yes, like you have to be an adult to come up with that or some shit which is not mutually exclusive. Yeah, you can't just change facts in the case to make it fit. In that case, if somebody rapes somebody, well then just charge them with murder too and that way we can kill them. Yeah, that's what I mean. What are we talking about? It's just change and shit. Yeah.

You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years.

I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Did you know that after World War II, the U.S. government quietly brought former Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology?

Or that in the 1950s, the U.S. Army conducted a secret experiment by releasing bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public. These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not. They're well-documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades. I'm Luke Lamanna, a Marine Corps recon vet, and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown. It's what led me to start my new podcast, Redacted Declassified Mysteries. In it, I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye-opening events

like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power tried to keep buried. Follow Redacted Declassified Mysteries with me, Luke Lamanna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad-free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Wow, so he's gonna plead guilty for the murder of his father in adult court. There's been, I guess the prosecutor said the change of plea came as a result of negotiations between her office and his attorneys.

The negotiations have been ongoing for months, she said as well. It's been a long time, which is weird. So she said just after lunch, the defense attorney called her office and said that Newgebauer was interested in, quote, one of the previous offers. Remember that? Yeah. Remember that shit we talked about a few days ago? He's in one of those. Which one? Well, I don't know. Let me go through my notes and figure it out.

And that's weird. He's in one of those. Which one? Well, I don't know. Let me go through my notes and figure it out. That's weird. So Burke, who's the assistant state's attorney, met with the defense attorneys and then the defense attorneys talked to Neugebauer again and then the three of them called the judge to the office, said, you know, we'd like to meet in your office. The judge was in a trial, so they left a message

asking him to call the prosecutor's office on his next break hollowing it up busy Hit me up So they do the judge call returns the call and he told them to come upstairs to an empty courtroom right away He recessed the other trial for 45 minutes to take care of this real quick We have 45 come on. You got let's fucking wrap this bitch up right here. Holy. So the prosecutor said that the three remaining murder charges are stayed until an evaluation of Nuga Bauer

at the state hospital, because he's saying he doesn't remember those officially. So that's how that goes. She said she doesn't expect to, she does not expect to dismiss those charges and that there would be, and that there would be no trial, but would not say how she expects them to be disposed of.

She doesn't know how long the evaluation will take. So she's apparently saying there's a plea deal on the table for those as well. So they're not gonna be dismissed, but she doesn't expect to go to trial on the charges. Right. She said the facts are not an issue It's a given that the murders occurred and that he did them and there's no question. He intended to kill his father There's still a question about his intent and the state of mind on the other victims

She said and that's why the evaluation will be done Interesting. He said he's already taken of other evaluations at the state hospital Interesting. He said he's already taken other evaluations at the state hospital, but the prosecutor said those were for other specific reasons unrelated to this new evaluation that will center on his intent and lack of memory of the other three deaths. Now he may serve the first year or more of his sentence at the state industrial school, which is a juvenile facility. That'll be worked out between the officials, but then he'll be in

adult prison after that. That's how this works. So he was scheduled to go on trial for four Class AA murders. Wow, you did a AA murder there. Class AA. Class AA. Jesus. North Dakota, you got some funny shit happening. Call that shit Major League murders, if at least. Sounds like AA a murders like they're not that important. Weak ass double a. Double a ass murders. That's the most severe crime in North Dakota. So the maximum penalty for class AA murder is

life in prison, which would make you uneligible for parole for 30 years. But you could shave off good time. Sure. It was interesting. Five days per month good time, he could be eligible for parole in 24 years. So he could shave off six years of that shit. So that's what- Fast. 20% of your time basically you can shave off. So asked if she knew why Michael and his lawyer

decided to plead guilty instead of go to trial, she said that you'll have to ask them. Perhaps it was he felt it was time or that he could be found guilty or he's not just coming or he's just coming to grips with what he's done. So he ends up taking an Alfred plea for the rest of these. Yes, they give him an Alfred plea for the rest of this shit. And if you don't know what that is we've talked about it before but that is where you plead essentially that it's not a guilty plea But it's a plea that says that the defendant believes that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict them So they will plea to this even though so there's no Allocution right and not not claiming guilt not claiming guilt and then he doesn't have to do an allocution here because he says he can't remember

That's how that works. They're getting him on his dad for 30 years, but he's gonna serve an adult and he's getting Unbelievable. So now they're gonna do that for deal. He's getting six years per well, we'll see here He said he was pleading guilty to avoid the possibility of four consecutive life sentences, because that's what he could have gotten. That's what the deal is for. That would be terrible. To put it all into one, basically. So that was one of the possibilities. So they said that he was asked if he was persisting. The judge asked him if he was persisting in his

earlier declaration that he had no memory of the other three shootings, and he said yes. The judge then asked him if he was sure that he could be convicted, and he said no, I'm not. Which is why you take an Alfred plea. So the judge says you're not satisfied, and Michael shook his head, no. So the boy and the judge then discussed whether he could get a fair trial with Michael shaking his head that he doesn discussed whether he could get a fair trial with Michael

shaking his head that he doesn't believe he could get a fair trial, not in North Dakota where everyone's heard about this. It's the biggest thing that's happened. There's 72 people. One of them hasn't even heard. It's the biggest thing that's happened since they found a new strain of corn. Like it's wild shit since the fucking wheat fields have been plowed. So, Neugebauer and his attorney conferred, and then the attorney told the judge there was a very strong possibility that the jury would convict his client.

That's what we're going on. He's like, listen, dude, I get what we're doing here, Michael, but it's legal shit. You just have to say that it's... It's gonna get you, man. Yeah. So the judge asked for the factual basis of the case, and the prosecutors described their evidence.

After the description, the judge turned to Michael and asked if he believed the state had a strong case against him and Michael said yes. So then he pleads guilty using an Alfred Flea. Alfred Flea. An Alfred Flea. An Alfred Flea. You know, that's if Flea gets in trouble for killing somebody and doesn't want to fucking go to prison forever.

We'll do an Alfred flee. The judge then says, basically told him you could spend your time in prison continuing to blame others, or you could decide to make something of yourself even behind bars. He said, you're super young. Even if you did 30 years, you're gonna be in your 40s when you get out.

You have a lot of time left in this world. That is unbelievable. You're gonna spend, that's weird, man. So he said that other prisoners sentenced to life have done useful things even though they're imprisoned, but if he does not make something of himself in prison, he's not likely to be paroled. He's like, if you wanna get,

so he's giving him advice. The judge said he was referring to the fact that Nuga Bauer would be eligible to seek parole after 25 to 30 years, if you count good time. He said if you persist in an attitude that none of this is your fault, you may very well spend your entire life in prison. Then he said, I guess the other thing that concerns me, I've never seen one ounce of remorse.

That's something. No, he said that's something you better think about until that remorse sets in. You're going to have a tough time you young man May fuck off Four life sentences concurrent. Oh shit, so he gets life for each one of them, but to run concurrently But still for life so he got life for all of me just didn't get consecutive life, which is why I planned now Now the prosecutor here Is pissed off at Michael for saying he doesn't remember

the other three murders. All pissed off. Yeah. Said that this was the subject of the third psychological evaluation at a state hospital and the prosecutor said the doctor came to the conclusion that he had been deceptive. I find it real difficult to believe. He said it's not like and then they asked him Hey, you let this guy plea and now he's getting off with this easy sentence

Yeah, and he's like he said quote. It's not like he's walking on out the other Walking out on the other three. He said he's got life with parole. I mean, it's a life sentence He said it's pretty good sentence. I don't know what you're talking about I got someone to plea while saving the taxpayers Yeah, hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like what do you want? And we gave a teenager the opportunity to change his ways Yeah, you want to pay a shitload of money to get him in jail for a few extra years just to say yeah It's like you most of the people saying that will be dead by the time even gets out of jail Shut the fuck up and mind your business. How's that? So Michael's aunt here, Helen, she said after the court hearing that she believed that he

should have gone to trial. How would you go to trial? They're not going to believe that he didn't remember. And even if he didn't remember, they're still going to say he's guilty and did it. Yeah. I mean, there's no way to do that. She believes he was motivated Motivated by and this is when a lot of shit comes out here. This is far from over

She believes that the murders were motivated by physical and sexual abuse. He suffered over the years Yes, this aunt waged a months-long campaign to be allowed to visit Michael in the Burleigh County Detention Center She said she's hoping he gets counseling in prison. She said he's got to figure out how to take responsibility for the killings and still realize the abuse wasn't his fault. Those are two separate, big, huge, giant things that people spend their whole lives trying to work one of those out, you know what I mean? Honestly.

Yeah, and that sex abuse thing is real fucked. That's what I mean. It takes a whole life to realize that's not your fault sometimes to never mind you killed four people, too So she said that he has shown remorse to him to her and cried about the deaths of his brother and mother in particular Sister and father can go fuck themselves with brother and mother awful Sherman and her husband she's murals wife's wife by the way, the guy who you know went over there to call the cops here, she said they still want to help

him too. She said what judge, what the judge said about him doing something with his life, we're gonna support him and try to give him the moral support we can. Okay now he's sent to prison now. And this was in early 1994. He does an interview later on. Well, it's not really an interview. It's kind of, as the judge ruled, he wasn't allowed to do any interviews for a while. So he had like, he wrote letters. This is pieced together from letters he wrote, correspondence with people.

He says this, quote, I was abused physically and sexually for years, and I just never said anything about it to anybody He said it was the abuse that drove him to kill his father his father's physical abuse was horrible and his sister's sexual abuse Okay So the interesting part is the sister who authorities charged with? with crimes for incidents outside the nuga-bauer family, so So the interesting part is the sister who authorities charged with with crimes for incidents outside the Nugebauer family.

So sister did something. I don't know what's going on here because from what I understand the high school she went to as a high school for bad kids also. Yeah. So I'm not sure what's going on. But he says that his father beat him up and his sister sexually abused him also. Wow. But he says that his father beat him up and his sister sexually abused him also That's what's going on here, which means that someone was sexually abusing her. Yeah, like, you know Girl children don't come up with that shit on their own. You have that stuff. Yeah So that's what you say sure Is that for sure we don't that's what he says. I can't I have no idea I'm trying to speak a little the dead here't... That's what he says. I can't, I have no idea. I'm trying to speak a little of the dead here, but that's what he says.

And apparently there were charges for crimes. We don't know what crimes, but outside of the family. So I'm not sure if she did something to somebody else or what. We don't know. Michael said, after that, anyway, it would have been better if I had been killed. I wouldn't have to go through all the shit I went through in the last two or three years a lot easier. I think yeah Today the prison won't allow interviews with him, but he sent this to Jackie by the way Jackie still around she still whoa What the fuck? Oh, we'll see Jackie is right or fucking die for a little while anyway Yeah, even though she has a kid here and some point Fuck no no

This is what he wrote quote I hate what I did and how it hurt so many people I think what my family missed out on in life because I took it away I think of what my family missed out on in life because I took it away. I put the oven there. He forgot it I am the one responsible and me alone I picked up the gun to help me get away from the hell I was going through and living in I did not intend to kill anyone if I saw how things ended I would have never done it Really interesting. Yeah, so if you thought about this the consequences, you know, it's weird. It's almost like

Like 15 year olds don't think shit through. Yeah, like they don't understand consequences So yeah, it's it's almost like they don't understand long-term Consequences because they're children. It's almost like they should be older before they're adults Maybe they don't understand how long life really is. Yes, they don't when I was 15 I never thought holy shit 60 70. I never even thought about shit. I thought I'd be long dead by now. Never mind. You know, even more. I just thought, I mean, you live forever, so, you know what I mean?

Or, yeah. I saw George Burns on TV. I'm gonna live that long? Fuck, that's so far away. I'll either be dead by 23 or be 112, one or the other. There's no in between, is what you think when you're a teenager. I'll either be dead like in a James Dean fiery car accident or something. Some cool way.

Or be Burgess Meredith. Or, yeah. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. You can do that. One or the other. Wanna take a ride on my Filoni? I love when he says, well if he craps out two dimes

and a nickel, that's when you know you got problems. Because he ate a quarter of the baby if he craps out two dimes and a nickel, that's when you know you got problems. Because he ate a quarter of the baby if he craps out two dimes and a nickel. And for lunch, I have a bacon sandwich. And I usually drink my dinner. For breakfast, I have a big pile of bacon. But he's flirting with the old lady and the bloopers. It's the greatest thing. That's so great.

That's so funny. Why'd you cut that out guys? In the movie, it's so that's hilarious If you've not seen grumpy old men if you're younger or something like I don't want to watch a 30 year old movie about old men Yes, you fucking do it's hilarious old men is the better one because they're both great. He does Despicable I I'm sure Old Man is the better one because he does despicable things. I can't tell you the difference between except one is Sophia Loren and one is Andy Dickinson. The second one is Sophia. I know that but like all the jokes, can't tell you which one is which one.

It's like the same movie, which is good. The sequels were like equally good, both movies. They just went together. It's just terrific. The Old Man basically threatening to rape an older lady an older lady Well, he's like hunched over and shaken What do you say so Jackie says this quote Mike is responsible for pulling the trigger

But it's a domino effect if he would have been taken out of that home when he should have been his dad got help I know they would have been alive and this is what this is what I live with every single day of my life yeah what shit what more could you do but call the people and get it like you get what more could a 16 year old do you couldn't go there. The father threatened you with a hammer and ran over your dog just for hanging out with the guy. Like, it's not like you could've went over there and said, come on, Michael,

I'm taking you away from all this. He made Mike clean up Benji on the road. You can't do this. That's fucked, man. You couldn't have done anything. So the prosecutor, through all this, writes a letter to the newspaper. It's not good enough that he got a life sentence. The prosecutor also doesn't want anyone

to feel bad for him as well. So it's public. Public shame and humiliation. Which again, shouldn't have shot your mother, shouldn't have shot your brother, definitely shouldn't have shot your sister, and probably shouldn't even have shot your father. Just don't shoot people.

There's other explanations for this. But if what he said is true, I get the father thing. Yes, for sure. And I even get the sister thing if his sister was sexually abusing him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not, I don't, I'm not condoning it, but I understand it.

But the brother and the mother, no fucking. No reason. Because if he did that, he could have said I was protecting them. I was protecting him from my sister and and and my mom from my father But when you kill everybody then you're just a piece of shit who killed everybody and you're killing a little boy That's cowering in his room. That's it's what I mean who probably worships you by the way as an older brother Yeah, yeah, three years younger older brother probably worships his ass

Follows him around does all the shit he does fucking pathetic so his ass. Follows him around, does all the shit he does. Fucking pathetic. So prosecutor writes a letter here and she said as the person who prosecuted the case, I would like to clear up misconceptions. Oh, and then has like Sarah Boone bullet points like when Sarah Boone writes the judge about everything. There's apparently misinformation and rumor that Michael Newgabower was the victim of child abuse by his father in some way. Extensive investigation came up with not one bit of evidence that such is the case. By the way, put that in there that they're saying this now because they changed their tune big time about this shit later on.

There are no official records that Michael Nugabauer or anyone else ever reported any sort of abuse. Friends and relatives that were talked to told law or anyone else ever reported any sort of abuse. Friends and relatives that were talked to told law enforcement they'd never seen any indication of any form of abuse. By the way, they were very private people too. And usually abusive families are very private for that reason. Right. They don't want people knowing what's going on inside the house. In addition, Nugabauer was evaluated on at least four occasions by psychiatrists or psychologists. His lawyers in our office agreed that nothing he said in those evaluations would be used

against him. He did not mention any instances of abuse. There appears to be a misconception as to what sentence was imposed and what the practical result of the sentence is. Nugebauer was sentenced to life imprisonment on four counts of murder. These sentences will run concurrently or together. Nugebauer will be eligible for parole once he's served 30 years minus any accrued good time. This means he'll be eligible for parole in 23 to 25 years if he's been able to amass all available good time. Being eligible for parole does not

mean he's going to be released, but rather that his status will be reviewed for the first time. The parole board will consider all pertinent information regarding him, including the circumstances of the offense, his conduct and progress while in prison, and the input of family members." The prosecutor told the judge. The prosecutor and the judge, I'm sorry. Finally, the writer criticized the plea bargain in this case. From the standpoint of the prosecution, there were several compelling reasons to enter into the agreement. The first is that there's never any guarantee of a guilty verdict when a case is presented

to a jury, regardless of how strong the case is. One only need to recall the Bobbitt and Menendez cases to see that a seemingly airtight case may not result in a favorable verdict. Second is the cost involved. While the cost of prosecution is never determinative of our office's decisions, it certainly must be a consideration especially given the tremendous costs already incurred in this case. Because all that shit, it all gets charged to North Dakota. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the stuff that happened. You gotta pay for it. They said thirdly, there's no guarantee that Judge Glazer would have imposed consecutive sentences had we gone to trial and gotten four guilty verdicts. He might have given them the exact same, we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and he got the exact same fucking deal. And now he's going to appeal it 30 times too, because he can. Which will cost us more. Which will cost us more hundreds of thousands of dollars that you fucking people don't

want to pay. So, and you'll complain about later, even though this is what you want. Frustrating. So he said, as stated above, the parole board must, in 30 years or so, find that Nuga Bauer is suitable to return to society. If not, he will remain in prison for the rest of his life. This will not, of course, bring back the four victims, but it's the best we can do. This is all we've got. That's fair. That's fair.

1997. There is an interview with Michael Michael and guess who's there? Who's Jackie? She's still there. This is five fucking years later. She's still aside. Yeah sitting by a side not in prison. She's free. The article here says three times a week Jackie Hybe Hybe walks through the maze of steel barred prison hallways to the visiting room there for two hours she and Michael Nugabauer think of places they have been and the places they would rather be. Florida.

Florida, Cancun, Cayman Islands. They didn't make it to either of them. Iowa, fucking, Nevada, anywhere else but here. Nugabauer speaks first. His eyes never leave Jackie's as they sit together. We're just good friends, he says, who... And then her words overtake him. I'm still in love with him with all my heart, she says over the noise, but it's kind of hard now.

Makes it a bit difficult for her. This kid must be a fucking stud when he was 15. She's still on him. Yeah, did they fuck? Fuck, yeah, they slept in the same bed in the motel. Yes. He was 15. She's still she's still on him. Yeah, did they man fuck Fuck yeah, they slept in the same bed in a motel. Yes, right Yeah, after you butcher your family and go on the run you are fucking like mad probably the best sex I'll ever have in his

He got all three exact that's you we've seen from gypsy rose after a murder It's all three every time pretty a murder, it's all three. Every time. Pretty much all three. Pretty much all three. Jesus. Nick Goedajohn, fucking interrogation. If you really just want to be baffled and laugh and watch. Saddened. Truly saddened. Saddened, baffled, and also hilarious at the same time. It's really weird. Saddened by a kid that got taken advantage of. So weird. So while Nugabauer faced murder charges, Jackie was labeled a runaway. She was hustled from psychiatric ward in Bismarck

to a group home in Fargo to her father's home in Texas. Finally, she returned to Bismarck and to Nugabauer. She said, I've tried to go on with my life, but in a way, our lives stopped back then. In a way? In a way, his life is definitely stopped, for sure. Hard breaks, dear. Hard stop right there, full stop.

He stood on him on the freeway. Yours was paused for a while here. Then she says running away with Michael was probably one of the biggest things that's ever happened in my life. I would assume the fucking very biggest at this point, right? What else have you done? You are 22 at this point? 21 at this point, yeah. No. His aunt says, this is Michael's aunt, they've been through

so much together. I feel like they, I think they feel bonded. I know that Mike doesn't think he's in love with her anymore, but there's still something between them. It's a trauma bond. Yeah. And they're fucked up kids. They were both fucked up kids were fucked up kids together. Then the article goes on to say that they asked Jackie had she gone with him of her own free will, she even know what he was suspected of doing. She insists now that she knew nothing about the killings when she agreed to run away. Like we said, it wasn't until they stopped at the motel room the first night that he told her he'd killed his father. She said, I didn't believe him. How are you supposed to react? Like, yeah, right.

And Michael said, I don't blame her. That's kind of a shock to hear. So I didn't blame her for being like, yeah, bullshit. You didn't kill your father. So she said she never thought about turning him in ever. Never even considered it. Never. Never even thought about it. Nope, she said we were in it together from then on. She's badass. Fuck man.

He says he still doesn't remember killing his mother, sister, or brother. He says, quote, I hope I never remember. He said, I remember the first shot and that's about it. Okay. Okay, now the prosecutor here, Patricia Burke, says horse shit, she doesn't buy a fucking word of it. He remembers every bit of it.

He remembers it, he fucking remembers it, that's one thing, don't say you don't remember it, dude. Say I did it because I shouldn't have done fucking A and B but I meant fucking C and D. And it was super fucked up watching my brother die. I was just gonna say, be a man, but he was 15, so nevermind. Be a child, be a stand-up child.

Stand up, man. So she says she notes that Nugabauer told several different versions after his arrest, including one in which he said he killed his father because his father had killed the rest of the family. He told several stories. One of the one was, I came in and dad had killed everybody and I had to shoot him. I had to put him down.

I was just packing at the moment. Yeah. But then they were like, how did you get the gun away from him to shoot him with the same gun he shot everybody else with? How would you do that? And he was like, um, fuck. Okay. Nevermind.

Back to one. Back to one, everybody. That's fucking crazy. She also says Michael Nugebauer can deal with what he did the way he sees fit. If he wants to say he doesn't remember, that's fine with me. All I know is he killed four people. And she also says that she could never substantiate, even three years after we just talked about it before, from 94, couldn't substantiate the claims of abuse she said let's assume

he was abused which I don't believe he was but let's assume it anyway why would he kill his little brother he murdered four people and then he went and played on the beach in Florida I think he deserves to be where he's at that's hard to argue yeah that's a hard to. Did he go to the beach? I remember they came to the hotel from the beach. Oh God, that's right. From Sarasota. They're eating cheeseburgers and frolicking and fucking. They played in the pool for Christ's sake. I bet they had a floaty going on. They're tickling each other. Fuck yes. The warden here Tim Schultze said that Nuga Bauer, and this isn't going to last long, but said he's been a model prisoner. Although recently he was disciplined for threatening a woman prisoner. I don't

know why they were together, but an offense that Michael describes as a mere misunderstanding. He's like, I was just a misunderstanding. They say he spends most of his time working out and he said that he is not asking Jackie to wait for him by the way. No? He said I wouldn't. Just turn around her own free will? He said I wouldn't want anyone to put their life on hold for me. Well she's got a kid so I don't know how much on hold she's getting.

It's not real. Yeah she's getting a regular dick. She might not be married to anybody but she's definitely fucking moving on with her life here. Yeah. on with her life here. So by 1999, Michael is in, he's in lockdown when they go to talk to him here. And they said that he created a hiding space in his cell by removing door paneling. I don't know what the advantages of that are but they suspect that he created the space to hide tools he planned to use for an escape a

storage area not for him to hide and The warden said he's an individual with nothing to lose and he's proven that time and time again Oh shit, it's got nothing to lose what she kind of does but you know 2000 yeah, yeah Now he's in deep shit again. He's in the hole now when they go talk to him for a they say in this newspaper article, the rash of recent escape attempts has blown away statistics and baffled Department of Corrections officials. Yeah. In the last five years, only four people have walked away from the two minimum security facilities at

the maximum security state penitentiary, only one inmate, convicted murderer Michael Nugebauer, was charged with trying to escape during the same time period. Nugebauer and four others may face new escape charges after they allegedly stole a bolt cutter earlier this month and another earlier this year in another apparent attempt to break out of prison. Oh my god. Has been trying to break out of prison constantly apparently like is he doing that from 99 on? He just got like I don't know if he gave up and just said fuck it I gotta get out of here, but he's trying to break out of prison which what are you gonna live a new life? So they said that he was transferred and the plans are to do,

the other federal people were transferred and Nugabauer, they're gonna transfer him too. So now from now on, he's gonna get transferred to prisons all over the country. He's an escape risk. So they keep putting him in all these like high security prisons. The ones that he can't get comfortable in

so he can't, yeah. Yeah, and also federal facilities that are more secure. They said he is classified as a high escape risk and moved to maximum security lockdown. Inmates in maximum security have the least amount of privileges because they're the highest potential for problems, the prison guy said. He will remain there until he's likely transferred

out of state and likely in two or three months. One guy said, I would easily say it was more than justified the move to maximum security because of the potential of escape that he presents. He said, this is not the first time we've investigated Michael Nugabauer for escape. Apparently here. So would they go and talk to him? And that's, that's where he is. He's like in the full maximum shit here. And he says he has a few visitors, hardly anybody comes and sees him anymore. And he's unable to speak with those who do come in the normal visiting room because he's being punished for this suspected escape attempt here, or escape plot. So they said

in that room inmates don't wear handcuffs and there's couches to sit on. It's like a decent place to visit people. This is through the glass, you know, pick up the phone and talk through the glass shit here. They said though, since he is being punished he can't go anywhere without handcuffs now either. He's got to be cuffed the whole time. The punishment known as the hole to him and other inmates, this article says, obviously we know the hole, a few months, a few months when he is confined to his cell all day. Every 15 days he gets to spend some time out of his cell. Every 15 days he gets to come out of his cell.

It's not 23 and 1. It's 15 days and he earns an hour. Yes, it's 30 and 2 is what it is, meaning days. So that's wild. Otherwise he gets out once a day to take a 15 minute shower. That's it. No exercise, nothing. He tries to sleep as much as he can, he says, which what else would you do? He says he's innocent, at least to the escape plot. So look, I didn't do that. Yeah. He said, and if it weren't for my reputation, people wouldn't think that, you know what I mean? And the newspaper said that if it weren't for my reputation people wouldn't think that you know what I mean

and the newspaper said that If you didn't know who he was his smooth voice and piercing eyes could probably convince anybody that he's telling the truth, too They said inmate number one six seven three Oh hardly seems like the Monocan teenager who pleaded guilty to killing his family shooting his father mother sister and brother in their farmhouse in who pleaded guilty to killing his family, shooting his father, mother, sister, and brother in their farmhouse in 1992. But today, more than 10 years after his sentencing, Nugabauer is not denying what happened that day. The details of that winter day in 1992 are still details only in his mind, or only his mind knows and sometimes won't reveal. Not even to him, he says. He knows what happened, and however the chain of events played out,

it left his family dead in the farmhouse where they were found Nugabal remembers shooting his father after an argument they had over his household chores Which is what he told a judge during sentencing although he recalls more today than he did a decade ago He still can't give a chronology of what happened that day. He still finds the whole thing hard to believe Really? He said quote. It's still hard for me to think that I even did it. I mean, how could I? The fuck was I thinking? I mean, you did it.

He said, fuck was I thinking, man? Which I would hope that a lot of murderers think that when they're a person. Yeah. What the fuck was I thinking? Why did I do that? What the fuck is wrong with me? What the hell am I doing here? He says that he knows what he did, but he's unable to tell it to anyone back then

He says he did not tell anyone at the time what had happened. He said I pretty much know I did it I remember it happened with him first my father So I know it had to have happened with the rest of them what else could have happened Someone else came in and took the gun and shot them. He said, what happened is something he thinks of every day. He said, I take responsibility for it, all of it. He says, you aren't going to put it out of your mind, not ever. It's not just something you forget about.

You think about it every day, but you try not to. So he says that he doesn't understand, he said he knows he hated his father as a result of the abuse, but he doesn't know what he did with everybody else. He's not quite sure what he was doing. I can't fathom that. Yeah, he said that, he said you want to use that as an excuse. It is an excuse, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't lay it all on that.

So I'm not trying to blame anything. He says it's so much different when you're a kid. You feel like you have no way out Which at 15 you sure but you feel and that's the thing we talked about so many fucking times like Columbine for instance. Yeah, those kids were seniors Right. They were a month from graduating in a month and a half They would have never, ever thought of it ever again. Have to see any of those fucking people ever again.

They could have sat around, drawn pictures on their faces at the air book and remember that asshole while they went to their fucking jobs. Yeah. That made, that made no sense to me. None. Cause there was a way out.

Wait a month and you're out. Not even, it was April 20th. Yeah, it was a month. It was four weeks. Yeah. Literally four weeks shy of graduating. Crazy. Fucking crazy. When you're 15 and it's your parents, it might be different. You know what I mean? I could see that feeling like there's no way out of this trailer in this small town with a, where am I going to go? 72 people. Picture the globe. Picture your little dot on the globe. Where how do you get out of that if you're 15? Murder isn't the answer obviously but you know he said it's so much different though he said I really don't feel

like I've grown up at all at times. He said I feel like life stopped 13 years ago and this has all been a bad dream. It's only been 13 years, dude. That's it, man. They said, but he's a convicted killer now, and instead of fishing, he's inside of his cell, a six-foot-wide room with no window, no carpet, no comfort. His bed is made of metal, his mattress thin. Before he goes to sleep, he folds his pillow over twice and tries to put his memories out of his mind. He concentrates instead on what the backs of his eyelids look like.

It's never totally dark in his room. In prison there are nightlights in each cell. It's never totally quiet because people talk all night or as Nugebauer writes, they yell just to be heard. Is that right? Oh, people scream and yell all night in fucking prison. It's a thing. Oh my god.

They want to disrupt shit. People are, people in prison, a lot of them aren't good with like societal shit like, hey, don't do that, you disturb others. They want to disturb people. That's the point. Oh, dude. To get a good night's sleep would be nuts. Fuck, man. And then you wonder why, yeah, you wonder why people get stabbed. Maybe everyone that got stabbed is just keeping people up too late. And why people are smuggling in sedatives.

Exactly. Look man, I can't sleep in here. At least they can drug me through the shit. Fuck. But he said, I try to see nothing but the backs of my eyelids. If I think about the things I want or used to, it might, it makes for a long night. Yeah. He tries to think about the outside. Prosecutors say they were never able to substantiate the claims of abuse. He says they never fucking tried to substantiate

the claims of abuse. That's why. He said, I'm not normally a violent person. I'm not a cold-hearted person. I get upset. I've been upset many times. I have feelings just like everyone else. You can't only show your emotions,

but that doesn't mean you don't have them. The prosecutor who prosecuted, and Patricia Burke, says she has no regrets about what happened, the prosecution, she says, I certainly have regrets that four people were brutally murdered and that their families suffered horribly, but I don't have any regrets about prosecuting Michael Neugebauer.

She then said, I think he got off fairly easy. Is that right? That's 10 years after she was in the paper going, hey, we fucking pinned his ass to the wall. Now it's easy. His aunt, Helen, remember the one who's been supporting him? She says she thinks Michael was treated unfairly by prosecutors, law enforcement, and the media

who failed to see him as a human being. Instead, he was treated and continues to be treated like an animal. I will say if you, they definitely didn't say he might be a troubled kid. It was like kid on the loose, he'll kill you all. Watch out, he's bloodthirsty. Which it would look like that after you shot four people.

She said they say it's a good justice system. They say it's the best in the world and that we should be happy with that because that's all we have but it just isn't good enough Now Michael talks about how he learned how to shave in prison. Yeah, he's a blonde kid. He probably didn't shave till he was 18 He's like fully blonde shit. He probably didn't shave till he was 25. He's like, let me get that little mustache He got his GED in prison He was like, let me get that little mustache that got on off me.

He got his GED in prison. He started reading recreationally in prison. He likes mystery novels, or his jam. I guess that would maybe take you away from the, I would think you'd want, because I don't like fiction, but if I was in prison, I might like fiction. Maybe. I might like to be taken away from here

and go into my imagination rather than reality, which is what I normally like to be taken away from here and go into my imagination rather than reality, which is what I normally like. He's learned to like the St. Louis Cardinals since he came to prison, that's nice. Hey Cardinals, you got a new fan, isn't that what you're proud of? Oh, that guy who killed four people likes us now, terrific. He said he watches his team on TV during baseball season.

He also learned how to bake pies and cakes in the bakery. Isn't that nice? What? I don't know why he's a pastry chef now, but that's what's happening. He's developed large biceps since working out is the only way to spend one of the only ways to spend time here. He's also learned in prison that he will never have a normal life, even if he gets out. He'll be eligible for parole in 2023 unless he's convicted of perpetrating the escape plot.

Oh, right. Yeah. He said, you can't be looking down the road thinking about when you might get out. It's nice to think about, but it eats you up inside if you keep thinking about it. Yeah. One day at a time is how to do that. That's the only way to do it. Like a drug addict.

Yup. No, it's like a drug addict. What do they say? Yeah. only do two days in this motherfucker. They you come in They you walk out. That's the prisoner mantra. So everything else you just got to like separate your body from it I guess he says he misses his family dearly and Says that thinking about them eats him up inside He said there's days when he wonders why he keeps on living, but he says he gets hope again in the end. He said, I don't really know. Sometimes if it's worth it, but I want it to be worth it. Really? Yeah. So they decide no escape charges

for him or the four other inmates that tried to escape, even though they were trying to escape. The, uh, what is this, the prison guy here, the state's attorney said there wasn't even remotely enough evidence to prove that these people were plotting to escape, even though it was obvious they were plotting to escape. There's no evidence to prove. They need like, yeah, they need evidence. It was initially determined that five inmates helped move the bolt cutter from the shop in the prison's Rough Rider Industries located outside the main confinement area. Three days after the tool's disappearance, it was found in the food service area where Nugabauer worked. So you can't prove that he told them to put it there, but he told them to put it.

He's a guy who was always trying to escape. So I mean, you know, we get an idea. They said there was insufficient evidence to prove who took the bulk cutter, how it ended up in the food service area, who helped move it there, or what it was to be used for. Probably not preparing lunch, I would assume. No. The bolt cutter. He met with prison officials Wednesday at the Burleigh County. Stop meat around here. Yeah, I'm going to... This fucking Jesus Christ, these fucking ends of skirt they send

us. Good Lord. Gotta cut these things with blood. God dang. For Christ's sake. This chicken is tough. Man, this soy meat is tough. That's mainly what they use there. Among those at the meeting was Pat Branson, deputy state prison warden. Prison officials in the state's attorney's office mutually agreed not to pursue charges because the extra prison time wouldn't justify the cost of prosecution. Said we're going to have these big trials that we're going to have to have to try to get these guys two extra years. Like they all have. Yeah. They all have life life sentences. Makes no sense. Yeah. They said that conspiracy to escape from prison charges are class C felonies that

carry a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Okay. Yeah. Not worth it. No. So Michael 2016 here, he's been in several states because he keeps being returned for escapist attempts before in 2016 he's finally returned to the penitentiary in Bismarck. So he's finally home here. They moved him back to Bismarck eventually back to Bismarck by 2016 2017 there's a new law Okay, the 2017 statute states a court may reduce a sentence for someone convicted as an adult for a crime committed as a juvenile If they have served at least 20 years for the offense Oh

Basically 20s enough if you're did this shit when you were young. Yeah, which I mean, yeah That's if you're in prison for longer than you've been alive Good point. I kind of get it So they filed his lawyers filed a motion for sentence reduction and determined that that they said, please they want the court to determine that the defendant is not a danger to anyone's safety so he can be eligible for this. 2019, a statement to the court while this is all going on,

cause it takes years to then get an appeal on this. He wrote, I don't make my abuse an excuse for what happened, but it's the reason why it happened. I was a child trying to get out of a terrible situation. I didn't know the right way to get there. I just wanted out. That's what he was writing, because he had to write that in a letter to a judge.

2020, he files a motion for sentence reduction hearing, which was denied. Even though the letter of the law includes him in that perfectly. They didn't want to hear it. Nope. He appealed to the state Supreme Court, arguing the lower court was wrong to deny his motion without a hearing. They didn't even give him a fucking hearing. They just denied it. Not here. Not listening to your shit.

So 2022 is when he's finally heard on this shit. Really? Yeah, it's fucking wild, man. So in a brief file with the court opposing Nuga Bauer's request for a sentence reduction, the Burleigh County State's attorney wrote, The state does not dispute that Nuga Bauer was a victim of abuse as a child at the hands of his father and sister. We don't dispute it? For fucking 30 years, you have called him a fucking liar about that. Yeah.

And now you go, well, we get that that happened, but still. Well. You don't get to play it both ways, man. What the shit? I mean, I'm not saying that, like I said, I'm not saying that that's an excuse to kill a fucking whole family, but when you say you deny that he was abused forever and you wonder why he's fucking stewing in his own juices and trying to escape. Whatever.

Anyway, so at the father of sister, while the state recognizes such abuse can and does have an effect on the mental well-being of children, you think so? Nugebauer's reaction to that abuse was disproportional to a disturbing degree. Absolutely right. I agree with that. The brief continued, therefore, while the fact of Nuga Bauer's history of abuse would weigh in favor of a sentence reduction, because that gives him a reason why he did this shit, the weight is negated in this matter by the gross disproportionality of Nuga

Bauer's actions in response to that abuse. Okay. Michael at a motion hearing spoke to the court of the circumstances of his home before the crime, verbal, physical, sexual abuse at the hands of his father and sister. He said, usually I would end up on the ground and my dad would be the one kicking or hitting. And then he said his anger was taken out on my mom after that. And I heard the audio of this. he's crying horribly. He's like really, really digging deep and doing that shit.

So it probably happened. He said it was never meant to go, why would you tell your girlfriend that your father and sister were abusing you unless your father and sister were abusing you? You wanna look cool to your girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. And even, that's not a cool thing like yeah, man

My my sister comes in and sits on my face in the night like when I was eight like that's not My dad comes around beats the shit out of me for no reason. That's not shit. That's cool It doesn't impress a bragging. Yeah, exactly. You wouldn't be bragging about that to a girlfriend So I feel like that's probably true if he told her might He said it was never meant to go over and kill anybody. It was meant to be my protection. I never thought it through. So he said he had tunnel vision after he shot his father without knowing what he was doing and he says he didn't plan any of this. That's important, the planning. A psychologist here,

Dr. Shannon Weiss said it's more instinctual motions at that point than rational thought. A psychologist expert witness for the defense testified this and said that at age 15, a person is not fully developed and there's a lack of personality red flags in Nugebauer presently. He's not displaying anything red flags as far as that he's going to do it again. The state's attorney then asked if Nugabauer actually suffered from PTSD or dissociation in 1992.

And the psychologist said, I can't emphatically say yes, you know, because it's 30 years ago. She said, I guess it would be based on his self-report. So I can't Glean how he felt 30 years ago now, but he's reporting that that's how he felt And he's saying you won't do it again because the people that he wants to hurt are already gone Yeah, unless anybody, you know does that shit again to him which probably won't happen when he's 45 year old ex-convict I doubt so the state's expert psychologist doesn't says that he doesn't even have PTSD The state's expert psychologist doesn't he says that he doesn't even have PTSD

Which how if you got abused by two members of your family Which the state agrees with now and then shot them all you'd have PTSD unless you were a fucking Psychopath you'd have to be Ted Bundy level psychopath to not have PTSD from that certainly certainly Yeah, you gotta be a nice A hardcore fucking psychopath path for that shit. So Judge Bobby Wheeler raised questions of how mental development of a 15 year old differs from adults. Apparently never been around a 15 year old before. She asked both parties to make arguments on whether Nuga Bauer should have his sentence reduced at a later date.

His aunt, Helen, still got his back, by the way. Dude, this Helen lady is a down bitch, man. Like, if you're Michael, this is the only person who's stuck with you this whole time, is Helen. And she's not even related to him by blood. Yeah. She is, her former husband was his uncle. His mom's brother.

And that dude died. She's still hanging out. She's still hanging out. She said here that Nuga Bauer has a good heart and says she did feel a judge should grant him a sentence reduction, although she acknowledged that not all of his relatives may feel the same way. Helen said that she kept in communication with Nuga Bauer over his decades-long incarceration and speaks with him by phone on a weekly basis.

Jesus Christ, what a nice lady. She described him as a smart, hardworking guy and says that she has forgiven him for the crimes he committed. She said you can forgive the person without forgiving the sin. Now, while she does not believe, that's some Christian shit to say though. if you're going to be a Christian, act like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, you can't be like all about vengeance and then be like, but Jesus is my, no, look, I've never saw vengeance once in there. Not once. He never talks about it. Rarely comes

up with him. A lot of forgiveness though. That comes up a lot. For sure. For sure. So she does believe that he should be granted a sentence reduction although she has concerns about him adjusting to life outside of prison because he's been in there. Yeah, his whole life. He has no idea how to be an adult on the outside. She said his whole life's been in there. She said that he would face challenges upon release and hopes there would be resources available for him on the outside, such as job assistance, should a judge grant this.

His attorney also submitted a brief to the court saying Michael has served sufficient incarceration to both punish and rehabilitate him. Whichever one you want, he's got it. The brief requests his sentence to be reduced to time served with a period of supervised release of about five, for at least five years. So let him out, have him come to a parole office, serve three times a fucking week, put a bracelet on him, do whatever you want,

put an anklet on him, have him go to the parole officer. Let him out of prison. It's gonna be weird when he hacksaws through his front door every day. He's trying to get out. He hacksaws out his bedroom window, bolt cuts it out to fucking climb out. People are like, what is wrong with you?

Why does he keep breaking his steering column in his own car? Keeps doing it. 2023, this appeal, the decision comes down, the North Dakota Supreme Court rejects the sentence reduction request by Newgar Bauer. They said that he requested it based on the 2017 law and the high court says since he was sentenced in 1994, the law became active in 2017, he would have to wait till 2037 to request a sentence reduction. Because the 20 years then that they say you served has to be after the law came into play.

It's not a retroactive law like most laws are. So that is ridiculous. That is fucking asinine. I'm sorry. So they said that by ruling this ruling agrees with the state court with the state's court here that or district court that originally did this and he's fucked. So now and because of his problems, I'm not sure about good time or anything like that. From what I understand,

he is eligible for parole in 2027. Okay. So it was originally 2023. But if he got all his good time, but I think tons of escape attempts work as good time. And a lot of states have done away with good time too. So that might also be part of it also. They might have done away with it where it would have ended when it ended and that would have been that. So 2027, he might get parole. So that, that is Monokan, North Dakota, Monokan, Monokan, Monokan, North Dakota.

And holy shit, what a wild fucking story that is. My God. I mean. Buy him a bunch of hacksaws for getting in and out of his house. He's about to be out, man. He's like, you're going to get him some keys? He's like, I just got to ring a hacksaw. He's got a ring of little hacksaws he uses.

It's fine. He's up for parole at that time or he's definitely getting out? 2027. No, he's up for parole at that time or he's definitely getting out? 2027, no he's up for parole. Oh, who knows? I can't imagine him not letting him out. Gotta let him out, right? Since he's been there since he was 15. Yeah.

Yeah, 15 and 92, so that would be 35 years, he'd be 50. Fuck it, wow. To say to a person, you're the same guy at 50 that you were at 15 is kind of crazy. You know what I mean? That's nuts. I don't remember a lot of what happened when I was 15. Even if he did remember it, that shit's going to be fading by the time he's 50.

Like dude, I don't even remember banging my girlfriend afterwards. I don't remember any of this shit. It's wild. Yeah. So anyway, that is Menachem, North Dakota. What a place. And one fucking wild hell of a goddamn farm story. Imagine how big of a story this was in a town of 70 people.

Forget it. All those people. Holy shit. Anybody that's still alive 35 years later remembers every second of it. Was there anything else talked about down at the feed store? Never. No way. For the next five years probably.

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That's it, yeah. That's it. You can still get tickets though for the virtual live show that we did on October 30th. It'll be available I think till November 13th or something you can get that you can watch it 20 times do whatever you want Just like a regular live show you want to see a live show can't get to one or you want to see more live shows It is the same setup the table the screen us pictures story jokes costumes Costumes, I was you said that and I was digging in my head for where and when we had cartoons I was I was gonna go. Yeah, and I'm like we do

Cartoons you fucking hi, Jimmy. I'm the one who smoked a joint before the show I'm the one who smoked a joint before the show, not you. They fucking kind of... We did car costumes and they're amazing. So check those out. Shut up and give me murder.com. As a matter of fact also, you certainly want to do Patreon or actually follow us on social media first, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, Small Town Pod on Facebook. Check us out there and follow us and hang out with us and get all the updates for everything.

And then as well as that, you certainly want Patreon. Oh yeah. You like the show, you'll love Patreon. I'm telling you right now, patreon.com slash crime in sports, not crime and sports, not crime on sports, crime in sports. And it's Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N, patreon.com slash crime in sports. That is the place We'll get you you're gonna be so happy when you do this anybody five dollars a month or above you get Hundreds of episodes of that catalog shit not not episodes that were ever public. These are all bonus episodes

Stuff that no one's ever heard before unless you're a patreon person Then we do two new ones every other week one crime in sports one small-town murder and you just get it all Which is everything we got here for this week. Yeah, we watch that for crime and sports We're gonna talk about pedestrianism, which was one of the most popular sports that existed in the 1800s I can't wait to hear it We'll talk about what it is, but there's fighting and drugs and fucking it's insane how these people did this shit We'll talk about I love the old-timey stuff for sports then for small-town murder, we're gonna talk about in general exorcisms and specifically the the devil on trial documentary which is about using

Satanic possession or demonic possession to be more exact as a alibi for murder, which is wild Or you know an excuse for a crime. So we'll talk all about that. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people who would never ever, ever, ever, ever either molest us, abuse us, or kill us and our entire families. Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producer are Gary Howard, Angie Williams, Simone Stratton, Janice Hill, Faith Steveson maybe? Probably Steveson. Steveson? No, it's Steveson, right?

I don't know. Philip Baird. I don't know. Papa Georgeopolis. I'm not sure. Georgeopolis. Georgeopolis. Georgeopolis. Don't ask me And also immortal masks for helping out tremendously

Me a mask and for the virtual live show notice you guys are the fucking best. Thank you. It was great It worked out directly other producers this week are Liz Vasquez Peyton Meadows Ali Ali be knits She knits James Ali be nip motherfucker. That's what she does. Ali B. Knit, motherfucker. That's right, and also Tiffany Gonzalez. You guys are so good to us. Thank you so much. Amazing. Harrison Evans, Mark Ty, Lauren Go-downs. Oh, Lauren.

Lauren Go-downs. Ryan Guns, Goons, maybe. Popular lady. She's a great gal. Yeah, everybody loves her. Very popular. Big fan. Kolo with no last name.

Zero Stars. Clay Gowin. Shannon Marie McGovern. Emily with no last name. Ashley Burch. Melissa Personius. Jacqueline Nurkowitz. Dalton Sutton.

Mimi Mo. Maria Shone. Allison with no last name. Luke Arthur Ahern. Steve, nope, that's Steph, Monroe, Noah Hoffman, Courtney Penn, Kelsey Murphy, Kelly Bauer, Barb Erwin, Madison Miller, Kyle Crocker, Layla Peterson, Nick Myers, Sean Stiber, Cheryl Odorizzi, Aaron would know last name, Sarah Bennett, Jacob Dockery, Brett Gregory, Tobin Edmonds M Willard yep M

just a letter M that's their first name Willard yeah JP Edwards Roxana Rodriguez Abigail Cook Erica would know last name dad would know last name that may be a typo Tracy Farrion Jodie Collette, M with no last name, Cover Block, Stephanie Spivey, oh, Keely I think, A, K-I-E-L-E, is that Keely? Or Kylie? Kylie I think. Maybe Keely, I don't know. Vicki Waters, I keep, as many times I say it,

over and over and over again, it's still gonna be wrong. Wreith666, Sumrad Dame, S. Lee R. Lolo with no last name. Sheena Bridges, Cole with no last name. Shakira Hendricks, Joel with no last name. Lauren Hunt might be my, I don't know, I think I know her. Gina with no last name. Shannon with no last name. Amy Bullock, Crystal with no last name.

Heidi Farrell, Brenda Morrison, Linda P., Tiffany Sloan, Nunya Business, James Zach with no last name, James Murdock, Selena Marjicin, Marjikin, Selena, thank you, Sapphire McIntosh, Nancy Rusk, Brandi Devere, Eric Colvard, Shonda with no last name, Tom Christos, Richard Booth, YLP, Christian Hill, Jennifer Tevitan, Riffman, Destiny Morris, Free! Just a whole bunch of Es.

Bobby Presimore, Kate Bashford, Bash Forward, Money Mad Wright, Shelby Russo, Katie wouldn't know last name, Tabitha Dobrosky, Chris Wilmes, Wilmes. Nathan Garland, Jeff P., Jimmy D., Will Langdon, Brittany, Brittany Bureski, Kimberly Morrison, Andrew R., Brooke Burge, I think, Jennifer Starr, Andrea Oregel, Mary Gibbs, Crystal Terry, Kerry Joe Motto, Sylvia C., Janelle Stevens, fascinating way of spelling Janelle, Sophia, Sophia, J-O-N-E-L. Wow.

That's Janel, right? Or Johnnel. It's gotta be. It's gotta be Janel. Janel? Johnnel? Johnnel? I don't know, I've never heard of that as a name,

but I don't fucking know. That's a terrible name. Thank you for your money, Johnnel, but you, please have people call you Janel because that Johnnel. It doesn't matter what the gender is. It doesn't matter. Janel is what you got to go by. You're going by Janel, Holmes. I'm sorry. What's happening? Kelsey Weston, Brie would know last name. Presley would know last name. Victoria Manny, Deanna Snyder, Mike Dustman, Stephanie, holy what, Lejunece?

Lejunece? L-A-G-L-A-J-E-U-N-E-S-S-E. What is that? Lejunece, right? I don't know. Maybe it's Portuguese, because we don't. La-wen-e-ce. We can't figure it out.

Oh, it's probably sexy. Julie Gere, Gary Prokop, Anna Ramirez, Tom with no last name, Veronica Johnson, I wanna say we can't figure it out. Oh, it's probably sexy Julie gear Gary pro cop And a Ramirez Tom with no last name Veronica Johnson the letter N. Jess Jenkins Andrew Hesh Isabelle Young worth Joanne Carlin Jenny Nicholas Katherine Harburg Abby Abby Bessoni Stephanie Wells Webby with no last name name, I wonder if that's not the rapper, oh fuck, Tony Arrington, Jennifer Thompson, Sarah Trimazzo, Tracy McDonald, Elizabeth McManus,

B.R. Kelly, Nancy would know last name, Katie Holly, or Hale, Steven, Stephen Cooley, Hannah Juergens, Tammy Stetson, Kenji Johnson, Kathy Garcia, Barbara Johnson, Cami and Alan, Sam Struthers, Adrian Jensen, both of them. Cami and Alan? I've heard of getting Cami on your side, and I've heard when you get Alan on your side,

but not both of them. Great, Pete. Jesus. Dom McCoy, Andrea Johnson, Kim Sansone, Alicia Kromer, Agenda, Glenda. Hey. Glenda. There's an L.

Jackie Ayers, Sherry wouldn't know her last name, Sierra Smith, oh you, all right. Thomas Goer, Americanized Canadian, all right, good for you, Jodster or Joadster, Elizabeth Edwards, Donna Schenkel, Fannie McPhee, Madison Orr, Susan Grochner, Claire N, Gary Prokop, I said that, Danielle Trailer, Craig, did he get two? He must have.

Hey, either way. Craig McAvana, you're an angel. We love you, Gary. Thank you so much. You're the best. Gary Prokop. Suzanne Grokner, I think I said that. Yeah.

Craig McAvana, Mackenzie Bell, Catherine Matamoros, TJ Anderson, Jessica Wagner, or maybe just Wagner, Kelsey Gibbs- Maybe she's a composer, we don't know. Maybe she's Hitler's favorite composer, we're not sure. She's a contractor for fucking the Kremlin. Daniel Childs, Chrissy Chuchra, shit and sucre? CZ, UCHRA,H-R-A, what? Shura?

I see a CZ and I'm immediately gone. Shura, I don't know what to do. Martha would know last name, Jason Mullen, Sarah Moffat. Jules would know last name, Sue Ann. Cronenbold, Travis would know last name, Nalph T, Anna Ross, Emily Palmer, Allison Hertzler, Chelsea Gonzalez, Steven Grant, it's just Steve Grant.

I don't know why I got so formal with it. I probably was Steve. Stephen Grant. Sierra Cruz, Megan with no last name, Ryan with no last name, Michelle Cozaglio, Savannah Harris, Heather Murray, Heather Irvine also. She has two Heathers back to back. Brian Alexander, Hannah with no last name, Waller be a be Waller Amber Green from Israel, thank you Amber Erica dis our diss way disc Erica. You're the best

Samuel harsh barger foe show Jackson Whitney Stephanie. Oh boy scac sclack schlack Sheaketano she akatano Princess D Sydney Yeager Tara are on a Sclack, schlack, she-ack-a-ton-o, she-ack-a-ton-o? Princess D, Sydney Yeager, Tara R, An-a-an-a, Angelique Toonley Robinson, Jada Powell Thompson, Elizabeth Jones, Andrew Nolah, same. That's Jada Powell Smith to you, Jimmy. It, it, sorry.

I like to keep her name out of my mouth. Yeah, yeah, that's the point. Faith Nolan, Stacey Saloas, Salo-ah, Salo-ah. Gerardo would know last name. Brennan Miller and Oliver Gaye-Transy. Rico Suave himself? Hold on. You skipped over very quickly that Rico Suave

is giving us money. Thank you, Rico. Sorry. Great. Wrap up. Sweetheart. But you guys are the best. And we can't do this without you. The list grows every week, and you exhaust me, and I appreciate it.

Thank you, everybody, so much for what you do for us and what you've done for us and what you will continue to do for us if you feel like it. Thank you for everything. We appreciate the fuck out of everything you do. You want to follow us on social media. Shutupandgivemurder.com has a drop down menu with links to all that shit. Keep coming back every week and until next week everybody,

it's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London, blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes. Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story. One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century,

but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror. So when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, The Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker rated ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science and religion, and how even today we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night. You can binge all episodes of The Real History of Dracula exclusively with Wondery

Plus. Join Wondery Plus and the Wondria, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.