Small Town Murder - #552 - Too Many Dead Neighbors - Kerby, Oregon

Episode Date: December 14, 2024

This week, in Kerby, Oregon, a feud between neighbors boils over, when one of the neighbors ends the whole thing, by killing the other man. This is ruled self defense, so the man gets some new neighbors, who he doesn't like much better. Dogs barking, cats using a garden as a litterbox, giant lights, beamed into bedrooms, a property line dispute, chopped down trees, a junk pile, and a makeshift "fence from hell" cause murder to be the only solution. Who will survive the neighbor war??Along the way, we find out that you can actually eat acorns, that it's very strange when no one can tell who's right, when people are arguing, and that kill one neighbor, shame on you, kill two neighbors...New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This holiday season, give your loved ones only the best from L.L. Bean. For 80 years, L.L. Bean has been making their Scotch plaid flannel shirts the same way, better than everyone else's. Their Scotch plaid is brushed on each side to create a smooth and cozy feel. And at just $79, this long-lasting plaid is a perfect way to stay comfy all winter long. Give only the best gifts from L.L. Bean at Oakville Place, Georgian Mollenberry, and CF shops at Don Mills. Redacted, Declassified Mysteries is a new podcast hosted by me, Luke Lamanna.

Each week I dive into the hidden truths behind the world's most powerful institutions. From covert government experiments to bizarre assassination attempts. Follow redacted on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Wonderful Music"]

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay choo choo. Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder Express.

10 pounds of murder in a 2 pound bag, all aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station. Here we go. Before we get started, just want to let you know, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Not only can you get, if you're listening before these happen, tickets to the Boston and New York live shows. Tarrytown, by the way, is being filmed, so we're going to use it for a bunch bunch of different stuff so get your voice heard. They're pretty close to sold out so you pretty get what I mean I don't know if you're literally like to hurry. Get in there

also because we're gonna be announcing very soon here like next week we're gonna be announcing the 2025 tour dates and they're gonna go on sale so be there so you can get your good tickets, because people complain, I'm two days late and I'm in the balcony, so please, we're happy, thank you for buying them, so thank you, we're real excited, we're gonna go to a bunch of places we didn't get to this year.

Shutupandgivemurder.com, also, Patreon.com, you want that, Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you get all of your bonus material, anybody five dollars a month or above you are gonna get everything whole back catalog full of backup back stuff You've never heard before and new ones every other week one crime in sports one small-town murder And you're gonna go why is it patreon.com slash crime in sports? That's our other show that you should listen to by the way Your stupid opinions for that matter this week which you're gonna get for Patreon,

is for Crime and Sports, we're gonna talk about this gross English football, soccer, sexual abuse scandal. It's pretty gross. It's, think Penn State with a British accent. Penn State with T, think that. That's what we're going for there. Then for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about this cult baby murder trial.

Not really gonna talk about the trial. We're mainly going to talk about these people's insanity of their lifestyle. Polygamy and drinking pee and it's real weird stuff man. We're going to talk all about all sorts of strange medical beliefs they have. It's real weird. We'll talk all about that and more. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. That said, I think it's time everybody. Let's do this. I think it's time to clear the lungs. What do you say here?

Let's all arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? All right. We have to. We are going to Oregon this everybody. Let's go on a trip shall we? Alright. We have to. We are going to Oregon this week.

Out to Oregon which is very nice and I think Portland is on our touring schedule next year again which we love Portland so that'll be fun. But we're not going to Portland for this episode. We're going to Kirby Oregon. Kirby with an E. Like the Nintendo guy. A K-E-R like Derby with a K. So Kirby, Oregon, southwest,

like extreme southwestern Oregon, near the California border. Coastal ship. Coastal, not quite to the coast. It's inland, it's very close to Cave Junction, which we did an episode there. That was the pollinator, remember that guy? Oh yeah, yeah. The pollinator here, that's Cave Junction. It's real close to that like their post office

I believe is cave junction technically. Oh here So this is about four and a half hours to Portland if you had take a straight shot up along the ocean It is eight hours to Ontario, Oregon, which is our last Oregon episode It's literally like as far away as two places could be in the state of Oregon. Eight hours across Oregon? Because one is, Ontario is at the extreme northeast and this is the extreme southwest. So it's just this long, long trip.

That was episode 503, My Dead Mother Told Me To, which was obviously crazy, you can tell by the title. This is in Josephine County, which we've never heard before as a county. Wyatt's wife. Population, and I don't know if this is seasonal or how this works, but it's anywhere from 201 to 628, somewhere in there. Either way, real goddamn small. It's a census designated place. It's not a big place at all and doesn't have a lot of municipal things

happening. It's kind of like that sort of thing. Median household income here, way lower than the national average. It's 69,000 in the rest of the country here. 37,219. What's happening? Median home cost is 330,900 bucks. So how do those two things? It's got to be retirees, yeah? Some retirees, some people who kind of go out here to do their own thing kind of a thing. It's a lot of this is do your own thing territory.

This is a place you go when you're tired of people essentially. And the which is kind of coincidental and ironic because that's the problem today. What we have is people with other people that they tried to get away from. A little bit of history here It's often listed in tourist guides as a ghost town Even though there's people here sure because of the number of historic buildings left from back in the day from the 1800s They're just there Kirby came in existence in the 1850s. It was named for James Kirby and

The there was a gold mining. That's why they were here. Originally. It was named for James Kirby and there was a gold mining, that's where they were here originally. It was Northern California. It was James? Yeah, it was Northern California. They went up and... Who's Mr. Kirby? Do we know?

James, James Kirby. No, he's just a guy who was here. Oh, okay. Yeah, just a guy hanging out. He had a business here, I guess, and came here early. Important to the area. Important to the area here. The original county seat was a place...

They wanted it to be the county seat, basically. Of course county seat was a place, they wanted it to be the county seat basically. Of course they did. That's what they were doing because as we know you've got to have those records. That's the most important thing on the planet. Yeah to have the records in your town. Who knew? We had no idea. The original county seat was a place called Sailor Diggings. Okay. Which they eventually renamed Waldo, somehow a less attractive name than Sailor Diggings. One of the polling places was listed as Kirby's Ranch when they were doing this, voting for this. So I guess James Kirby and Samuel Hicks were partners

in a general mercantile and supply business. Hell yeah. They were running a hardware business. They were like. I know a couple of guys like that. Seth and Saul and Deadwood basically, basically. Then they called the town Kirbyville for the county seat race and it was selected as the county seat in 1857. They win the drawing. Not anymore. Then they changed it from Kirbyville

to Napoleon because the county was Josephine and they wanted Napoleon as the town. Josephine, Napoleon. Okay. The new name was a stupid name and obviously not popular being that you're thousands of miles from France. It's probably not going to be that popular. He's kind of a dick. Yeah, he's kind of a dick.

So they changed it back in the next legislative session here. They called it Kirbyville. They called that years and then finally they just called it Kirby after a while they gave up that's it and then they lost the county seat to Grants Pass so there you go that's how this went so this really hasn't gone well yeah they started out with high hopes and it just all went downhill from there shit did not work out reviews of this town there's only one review of this town that I could find because there's nobody here. I was shocked there was one review. It's five stars but yet it doesn't seem like five stars when you read it. It's weird. Lived here my

whole life is the first sentence. That says a lot. It's sketchy during the day and creeptastic during the night. Oh, both of those. Five stars. Yeah, five stars. It's not even nice during the day. Creepy. It never gets better than sketchy? That's fucking scary as shit. Sketchy.

Anywhere from sketchy to creeptastic. Anywhere in that narrow window is what we're talking about. Creeptastic kind of sounds like dangerous but fun. Yeah, like, oh, look at them go. Like crackheads are having sword fights in the street. But good ones are like they're trained. On guard and they start going at each other.

They're having sword fights but they're only using that roll inside the wrapping paper. That's it. But they put like capes on and shit. They really really get into it. He's the wrapping paper for the cape. Obviously, yeah. So they said there are many lovely bridges under which to pump drugs into your veins. That's nice.

And the friendly convenience store owners know that most of Kirby can't just drive into Cave Junction to get cheap groceries so they price accordingly. It's ok. It's crack heads and gougers now we're talking about. And there's gougers because people can't afford a car because they've pumped all their money into their veins. Into their veins, yeah obviously. We've got a bus stop right in the middle of town, which is convenient.

And you might even meet a homeless person or tweaker while waiting for said bus. Pretty Riverview. That's great. Five stars. How is that five? They said one thing positive. Pretty Riverview. The last sentence, everything else negative.

You might get a great Riverview as you stare at it and get a great story from a horrible human being. As you watch a man pump $12 worth of meth into his veins. Things to do here, the Acorn Festival. Okay. Oh boy. Now what do you think happens at the Acorn Festival? I imagine there are chipmunks and...

That's that one. Exactly. Chipmunks sing. That is, dude, I'm laughing because that is exactly what I pictured. I thought this shit was going to be based around squirrels for some reason. I don't know why. Alvin and the chipmunks sing. Squirrels and turkeys and chipmunks and shit like that.

It's not though. It's a family-friendly kid friendly festival Obviously, no the acorn festival. That's where all the tits are out. Everybody just gets horny going on there balls out everybody acorn festival time It says fun and educational event celebrating acorns Okay, learn how to process acorn Into what into what? They make acorn into what into what they make acorn butter I maybe I don't know Mike Woods is all fucking giant acorns I've never thought to process them I just go the turkeys are gonna love these right yeah red oak well any

oak but I have red oaks in my yard and I we'll like gather them up and put them on the food pile for the deer and shit and they eat them and I don't know I never thought to process them. Taste traditional acorn mush cooked in a basket. Mush? What? Okay, could you have any less attractive way to say something as we're making acorn mush in a basket.

In a basket's not the thing I wanna eat out of either. Acorn mush in a basket? It's just the takeaway size of a trough Yeah, I'm disgusted by this a scarecrow Scarecrow contest couldn't say that for some reason with a hundred dollar prize Oh, you're gonna probably put more than a hundred bucks into the Materials to make them then there's an acorn feast and more I materials to make them. Then there's an acorn feast and more. I didn't know that you could roast. I don't know. Deep fry. What do you do? A basket weaver named Lena Heard will cook acorn mush in a basket. I assume she weaved

herself. That's all I can imagine here. That's it. And then there's also the Kirbyville Museum, which I read a review of it and they said it's basically a house with some old shit in it and it costs $6. That's really not worth it. There's a saw blade and yeah. There's that. it and they said it's basically a house with some old shit in it and it costs $6. It's really not worth it. There's a saw blade and yeah. There's that. Yeah, they said it looked pretty neat, but they said $6 per adult,

but they were nice to them anyway, very friendly. So that's good to know. That said, let's talk about some murder everybody, shall we? Let's do it, yeah. All right, let's talk about a man first here. Donald Lee Easley, E-A-S-L-E-Y, Easley. He's born in 1949. He is, he was in Vietnam, Vietnam vet.

He did two tours, as a matter of fact. Went back? Went back, yeah. Oh boy. He's disabled at this point. Technically, I mean, I think he gets, you know. Sure, yeah. It seems

like everybody in this neighborhood is disabled, like not disabled, like they can't do anything disabled like that's their job is getting. They get a check. They get a check. So and I mean, I don't know if that's from war things or other things, because everybody's also an ex truck driver here, which is another. Everybody's an ex-soldier slash truck driver in this town. A lot of truck drivers are disabled by way of sitting on their fucking ass. It happens. No, it's true. They get all sorts of cardiovascular problems and clots and shit.

Deep vein thrombosis and shit. You will be thrombosed to the max. Forget about your thrombosis. You have no idea. All kinds of horrible shit. So Donald's an Army veteran, two tours, disabled. He's a little guy too, 5'5", 130 pounds, little guy. Wow.

Little tiny guy here. Come, we'll start about 2009-ish. He's living with his elderly mother. I believe her name is Clarice. Their father, her father's been dead for years years and so he takes care of his mother here. So you know 2009 that would make him in that area 60 so she's got to be in her 80s law, but nothing major, well, until 2009. One is I found, this is crazy, I don't know what this means, violation of basic rule he was arrested for. The golden rule?

Was he not nice to somebody? Like what is that about? Basic rule. He didn't puff, puff, give like he was fucking bogarted. Lost his manners, yeah. I don't know what happened, but that was in 1999 He had the loss of manners so it took him took him 50 years But he'll manners went out the fucking window here. Let that door drop on somebody behind him I don't know then he was arrested for violating maximum weight limits

That's that has to be five five. That's it. That has to be trucking, right? I would imagine. Yeah, that happened. It didn't weigh, something like that. 2001. Then in 2004, again, violating maximum weight limits. And then he was in trouble for failure. What is this?

Failure to carry PUC permit. PUC regulates transportation industries such as taxis limousines charter services and more. They also license trucking. I think it's trucking. So I think he was another trucking thing. Then he has some speeding problems a little bit in like 2007, but that's no big deal. So the guy hasn't been like any kind of menace to society. No, he's just bending the rules so that he can make his cash. Which I mean every trucker if you looked at their... Oh, god, their log can't be perfect, right?

Well, if you're driving constantly there's got to be some infractions. There just has to be. You can't get away scot-free forever. You drove a few minutes over your fucking 15 or whatever it is they tell you you can drive. Something, yeah. So he's living here with his mom, and his mom said he's terrific, the best guy you could have, he takes care of her, takes care of the house, takes care of everything.

In his 60s, go for it. In and around, yeah, he's doing just fine, and I mean, he's gotta be healthier than her, I would think, so he's. Yeah, but 60 and still managing that shit, that sounds terrible. I don't wanna be doing that, but yeah, a lot of yard work he's doing, like a lot.

Yeah. Way too much. 60's doing my own shit is going to be hard enough, and doing somebody else's too, that's a lot. He lives with his mother, so he's just doing his. OK. He lives there too, so he's doing all the. It's only one house.

He doesn't have to go to his mom's house and cut her lawn too, that would suck. Jesus, yeah. That would suck. So everybody in the neighborhood says he's kind of the neighborhood watchdog. Like he keeps an eye on shit. You know, if there was some weirdo there, he'll tell everybody there's some weird guy over here. He'll call the cops all the time on bullshit. Which is annoying. Wait till you hear how many times he called the cops in a five year period.

You're going to be, I'm surprised they didn't come to his house and take his phone away like that's how many fucking times like give me that and smash it on the ground no just abusing it you stop that that is not okay so 2009 here he's got a next-door neighbor right next door the houses are not that far away named Kenneth Vaughan Now basically they're fighting over a three or four foot area of property This is mine. No, it's mine. No, it's mine. That's in between their houses of offenses erected at some point later that we'll talk about Because this this property line is an issue. Okay, apparently Oh wow. Because this property line is an issue.

Apparently, now Clarice here, Donald's mom, says that Kenneth the neighbor stopped taking his medications and he was crazy. That's what she says. Other neighbors didn't really say that. Half the neighborhood thinks Donald's an asshole and half of them think he's a good guy. There is no consensus as to whether Donald's a problem or his neighbor's a problem. Everybody's like, well, I don't know,

that guy's kind of an asshole. Yeah, but that Ken, it's a good guy. And they all kind of go back and forth, which is odd. So there's no clear good guy, bad guy scenario here. It's just two neighbors that fight all the time. Their relationship as the town divided. It is. The whole street's divided. Apparently some people think that Donald is jealous of Kenneth for some reason.

So he's just jealous. I don't know if he's got a nicer truck or I don't know what he's got that's- Doesn't have to take care of his mom. I don't know. They live next door to each other. So how much better can anyone else be than anybody else who lives next door to them? Generally, everybody's neighbors are about similar.

Generally, even. Yeah. Yeah, you might go, oh man, that's a nice car he just got, I like that, but you're not like, I will kill that motherfucker. Fucking guy's got shutters instead of blinds, this is bullshit. Look at him. Look at him with his fucking wooden shutters. Like he's... what are those? Plantation shutters the guy's putting up. Jesus Christ. Why do we have... why do we have blinds, babe? This is bullshit. Look at him. God, look how poor we look. God damn it.

So anyway, in 2009 in November, there is a, apparently, an argument that they have in the side yard that escalates to the point where we're not sure who draws first. Oh. But we're dealing with two armed men. Gunfire. Having a gunfight in the yard.

And, but only Donald gets a shot off, so it's put the other guy had a gun on him okay and had it out and everything yeah so Donald ends up or Donald ends up shooting Kenneth Vaughn and killing him oh no kills him shoots him to death one shot separate shots we're not sure I'm not sure the amount of shots here because this didn't get a ton of play because Donald ends up saying, well, he had a gun too with self-defense. And in the end, it goes through the courts and everything like that.

And the grand jury, they bring him to a grand jury to see if Donald's going to be charged. And the grand jury says that he acted in self-defense. So we move along. Well, we move along when he shot his 60-year-old neighbor. God damn. Self-defense moving on, OK? OK. So now the house is empty next door,

which he was probably thrilled with. Yeah, because she can't take care of herself, yeah. Well, no, no. I mean, he stays with his mom. Oh, OK. Kenneth Vaughan's house is empty because he's dead. Oh, Kenneth got shot. OK.

Yeah, Kenneth is dead. So he's fucking dead and he's gone. So Donald's living there with his mom. Oh, okay. Kenneth Vaughn's house is empty. He's dead. Okay. Kenneth is dead. So he's fucking dead and he's gone. So Donald's living there with his mom and then new neighbors move in. God damn it. Yeah, they're going to move in eventually. Yeah, I suppose. But that realtor better tell them the guy that's selling this. Don't. That's the thing. They don't know for a while why that house is vacant. Is that right?

They have no idea that, yeah, your new neighbor killed your old resident here. So be careful. The estate that you're buying this from is an estate because the guy's dead. Maybe don't worry about that three or four feet of property over here. We've settled that beef. Yeah, that beef was settled with gunfire. So this is Laron, L-A-R-O-N, Laron he pronounces it, Laron Justin Estes, or E-S-T-E-S. He's 59 years old and he's got a common law wife, I guess you could call it here.

Her name is Barbara Hicks and they say they're married but they're not technically married. They've been together forever now Laran is also an army veteran. Oh, that should be great. Also an army veteran He is a former he's a trucker and he's a former industrial welder He's done hard shit war trucking Industrial welding. Yeah, this guy has lived a life, and at this point, he is also disabled, technically. He has disabilities as well.

Well, he fucking should be. Yeah, he's done way more work. In any five-year period of his life, he's done more work than either of us have ever done with our hands, like, you know. Combined. Combined, combined. Yeah, obviously combined.

This guy's laying down thick industrial beads of weld. That's crazy Impressive shit eight eight hours a day or more or more. Yeah So yeah, Laren said he's a he's a trucker also as we'll find out and that so you would think They would get along and he and Donald at first they do get along pals. Oh, they get along number one They're both in the army. They're around the same age. They did the same things. So they start getting along.

Like, I mean, the wife here, Barbara, she makes strawberry jam from scratch and gives it to all the neighbors. And, you know, everybody thinks they're nice people. And they hang out. He hangs out, socializes with Donald over there between the properties. Yeah, they have a good old fucking time here. Now, he has some, some criminal record as

well here. We'll talk about Laren. We'll start in 2011 and go backwards. 2011 possession of more than an ounce of marijuana. I mean, that's Oregon. That's Oregon. You're in the middle of the fucking nowhere in Oregon. Who gives a shit? You should, unless you have like a, even if you have a garbage bag over your back. I wouldn't give a fuck if you have a speedboat packed with it. Go ahead, knock yourself out, but I guess over an ounce you're not allowed to have was the thing, the way it worked.

Then in 2011, right before that, this was the same day, I think he got pulled over is the problem. Operating a vehicle without driving privileges. So just no license, just out driving around. That is not allowed. Nope. July 2011, operating a vehicle without driving privileges. 2009, failure to obey traffic control device, so blowing a red light is what that is.

Then in 2008, operating a vehicle without driving privileges, again, he just doesn't have a license and drives, he doesn't give a shit. Then 2006, criminal driving while suspended. So I think they revoked it and he just kept driving from the sounds of everything. In 2004, assault in the fourth degree, it and he just kept driving yeah from the sounds of everything in 2004 assault

in the fourth degree not sure the details of it are there I didn't know there was four that seems like a lot it's a lot of degrees so way down the line that's like what is that I was just gonna say spit did he flick a booger at him maybe I don't know what he did kick the salt did he I fuck somebody kick dirt on him like a manager Who's upset with a call at home plate? You know like I have no idea that got a gander somebody's titties something that's weird assault in the fourth degree 2003 in April driving under the influence of intoxicants 2001 speeding then we'd see I think when he was in his trucker

phase 2000 exceeding maximum speed for trucks. So I think that would be... Oh yeah, there's a rule there. There's a trucker there driving uninsured in 1999, 1992 failure to use seat belts, whatever the fuck that, 87 DWS misdemeanor, I don't know what the hell that driving while... driving while suspended? Maybe misdemeanor. I don't know what the hell that driving while... Driving while suspended? Maybe misdemeanor. I don't know. 87.

Shit-faced. Driving while shit-faced. Is that bigger than an influence? Yeah, what's worse, influenced or shit-faced? So that's, you know, these guys have both had their dumb, nothing big obviously. There's nothing in there that would give you a lot of Infractions a lot of traffic a lot of just kind of flouting of I don't give a shit about Conventional shit or whatever I'm gonna move to the middle of nowhere in a town with 200 people in it

And live here and do whatever fuck it I'm not dealing with it anymore because he lived in cave junction before he moved here Cave junctions a little bit bigger of a town not too much. Now okay now the problem is once they start having beef Donald and Kenneth or I'm sorry Donald and Laryn it's over the same three to four feet of property. It's over the same three to four feet of property. Oh, god damn it. It's over the same. Apparently, whoever the fuck shows the person who buys Laren and Kennett's house what their property is, they say it's in one place, and Donald insists that it's in a different place.

I mean, you can solve this with a survey. With a surveyor? Yeah, I don't think anyone's doing that. It's more fun to just argue. Is it? No, that's what I mean. These people are nuts. Yeah. No, they're all assholes. Everybody here. Donald doesn't give a fuck now. He thinks he's right because he went to court about it and they justified him. Yeah, they let him go.

Apparently, okay, Donald put up these security lights and this is before Kenneth moved in. Donald put up these security lights and this is before Kenneth moved in. These, it was like a prison yard basically. The whole house had crazy, huge lights on it. The big square ones? The big fucking spotlights everywhere. So it was for his mom. His mom was very paranoid about people coming to the house and whatever so she wanted to be able to see the entire yard at night.

So they basically put these lights in so it was like daylight at their house at night. Now one of these lights would go right into Lauren's bedroom, Lauren and Barbara's bedroom, and they couldn't fucking sleep basically. They tried to put up like plastic over their windows, but it was just getting blasted by these floodlights every night so

apparently they asked You know Donald could he please maybe point them in a different direction like yeah do me a solid I get the security but one of them is going right in our window. So can we please not have that? I don't give a fuck just that one. Yeah, and apparently that didn't happen So Larin went over and just unplugged the lights one night Which he couldn't that's I can't take it anymore. You laid there and you went I can't not sleep like this anymore And you went out one, duh That probably felt so good to do

Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds There are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science, to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week, on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories. 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets, to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated

accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow redacted, declassified mysteries with me, Luke Lamanna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad-free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science, to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about.

Each week, on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories. 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking.

Follow redacted, declassified mysteries with me, Luke Lamanna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. I'm surprised he didn't shoot them out. So I was gonna say, wouldn't a BB gun have solved this? That's totally well he don't worry. He has a BB gun and he'll use it later for other other purposes now. So then this is again the same thing as Kenneth.

Donald has his supporters in the neighborhood and Lauren has his supporters in the neighborhood. Is that who the fuck would support Donald on this? Even after Donald shot a guy half the people like back and i've got a deserve so the people who are pro donald are still pro donald all the people that were pro kenneth of now move their loyalty over to larry and and that was his work so she's fucked up uh... larry and and barbara they were just so annoyed they considered why don't we just move

yeah about they looked into things and they had just moved into their house and they bought it and it wasn't financially they couldn't do it they would lose their asses so you know it's just Donald never thought of moving once he was staying there he's not moving shit so the apparently Barbara says that and tells a lot of people this at the time and writes in a journal to and everything else that apparently Donald regularly would walk the property line back and forth like a century or some shit like like a like a rifle over his shoulder I picture like he's guarding something watchman yeah a century is a fucking, absolutely. So they would, and he would be yelling, cursing, and threatening to kill all the neighbors. I'll kill all these fucking people because what she said, he'd be yelling because they

would not be his friends. Oh my God. So he is really taken being left out wrong. You didn't invite him over for your barbecue. This is how, this is how he chooses to express that dismay is to walk back and forth. Oregon must be full of people like him because we have a friend in Oregon, you and I, who dealt with this exact same thing minus the stalking and such. There were lemon lights

right at his fucking house. I would lose my shit. People who live in rural areas sometimes move to the rural areas like this. Like real, I would lose my shit It's so dude people who live in rural areas sometimes move to the rural areas like this like real I'm not talking to I'm talking a 200 person town in the middle of nowhere They do this to get away from people but they buy a house still near other houses and then but they don't I was the lights in their window. It's like you you're doing what you fucking hate Yes, you're being you moved here to be antisocial and now you're gonna be actually. That other antisocial thing.

Yeah, totally. Now, Donald calls the cops constantly too. So he walks back and forth on the property line, yelling, screaming, cursing that no one wants to be his friend. And then he calls the cops. Throughout about a five year period here, couple years with Kenneth and then coming up here

with Lauren or Larren, Donald called the sheriff's department over 200 times. 200 times. That's several a month, man. Think about that. That's so many. I swear to God, if I was a fucking sheriff, I would come to his fucking house and say listen unless somebody is dying you do not call me or

I'm gonna come here and beat the shit out of you every time. That's almost once a week man. Think 200 times that's ridiculous man that's that's an asshole I'm sorry. When you're calling the cops and saying hey it's me again. Yeah. It's fucked up. When they, when you say, say hello and they go Donald, that's a problem. They know you. Yeah. You can't. You can't.

And they're taking the phone away going, it's that fucking Donald again. Jesus Christ. Hey Donald, how's it going? Oh, your neighbor's doing something. Big shocker. Okay. Can't believe it. So Donald even told the cops that I hope I don't have to kill this guy

About Larry said I don't have to kill him like I did with Kenneth. I hope that doesn't happen I hope he doesn't push it to that point. He doesn't make me he told the cops that so That's kind of a foreshadow that you don't really want to give the cops. I Hope I don't have to commit a fucking horrible felony So I hope I don't have to commit a fucking horrible felony. So 2013 is what I like to call the year of escalation here. This is when it really 2012. You got some lights unplugged. People call them the cops marching up and down the property or property line.

2013 is when the Gatlin is thrown down and it is like, listen, what happened? Larry isn't taking all those several events Laren isn't taking, oh, there's several events. Laren isn't taking Donald's shit, Donald ain't taking Laren's shit anymore. So apparently, one thing that pretty much all the neighbors agreed on is Laren, they didn't like his junk pile. Okay. He is redoing a lot of the house, Laren and his wife.

Okay, yeah. He's doing a lot, so he's pulling crap out and pulling junk out and doing stuff like that He's digging a koi pond like how much room does this guy have? apparently a good amount a good amount of land here, so He he's doing all this and he's while you're in a remodel you have shit Yeah, a lot of people will have a dumpster brought to their house to throw all the shit in, so their house doesn't look like the fucking Beverly Hillbillies. Or back behind the fence on the side.

Somewhere like that. Is it full of fucking vanities and old tile? He just has a massive junk pile in the yard. Wow. It's just a massive junk pile that just grows by the fucking day. And the neighbors are not thrilled about that. Like we have to look at Larins shit junk pile. Yeah. So that annoys everybody and Donald especially. Good God. Oh my. You're always right next door. You're smirching him for sure at that point now Laran at some point also there's an apple tree

That is I guess somewhere near the property line. We don't we're not sure exactly where the tree falls on Property if a tree falls and a disputed property property line does anyone hear it? You know what I mean? Does it make a sound? Makes an argument makes an argument so apparently what I mean does it make a sound it makes an argument it makes an argument so apparently Laren cut the apple tree down for no apparent reason it wasn't dad or you know it's just he just cut it down didn't want it is it on his property we don't know that's the thing it's kind of straddling so we're not sure he cut it down the mom here Donald's mom super pissed said it made nice apples why'd he cut it down so they had a huge argument over that you cut down my apple tree. No, it's my apple tree. No, it's my apple tree

Bop up up up up. Okay Apparently Donald would use his leaf blower at odd hours of the night Two in the morning you just go out with his leaf blower and the only reason to do that is to piss off your neighbors That's it. this is the worst yard you can tell on the planet it's the loudest thing ever it's impossible to sleep through yeah have you ever seen AP bio with Glenn Howardton okay when he's fighting with his neighbor Christopher Lloyd and he's Glenn's Howard and they're trying to Mack on this girl in there and you know put a movie

on and they're gonna get going and then Christopher Lloyd's just in the front leaning against his car with his fucking alarm in his hand just turning it on and off all the time. He goes just testing out my alarm because they're in a big dispute and that's what this reminds me of. It's just being petty. Pissing match yeah. Yeah doing shit on purpose to piss the other person off. That's what this reminds me of. It's just being petty. Pissing match, yeah. Yeah. Doing shit on purpose to piss the other person off.

Now, Larin has dogs that bark all the time. Second worst sound on the planet. Well, yeah, the reason is when you hear what kind of, they're Chihuahuas too. Chihuahua barks. No. They're so rapid. Not only that, Lauren and Barbara, to get some extra income, because they're on disabilities, Social Security, that sort of thing, they decided to start breeding and raising and

selling chihuahuas for some extra income. So there's points where there's 30 chihuahuas over there. Oh, Jesus God. Imagine that cacophony of 30 chihuahuas barking. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Slingshot and Drano meatballs can't be acquired fast enough. Oh, my God, no shit. So anyway, piss is obviously Donald off a lot.

Yeah, there's gotta be a conversation happening. Well, they also have pet problems We'll talk about so what they do they didn't have the proper permits to be breeding chihuahuas Of course not now when Donald calls the cops on them and the people come out they find that they are in perfectly good conditions They're not being bred in bad conditions They probably could have got a permit if they like they're they're doing everything by the book They just don't have a permit for them. So the animals aren't being abused or anything. But still, they're they don't have you have to have a permit to breed

fucking chihuahuas. Yeah. So there's that. So now, you know, Donald's like, haha, yeah, I got him in trouble. Right. Now, Lauren doesn't like cats. Donald's mom has somewhere in the neighborhood of between 20 and 30 cats, of course. Yeah. Nobody's normal in this neighborhood. That's the point. Okay. So she's got 30 cats.

Now that's being abused, right? It's too many cats. I would say for anybody. Yeah. You shouldn't anyway. I would say, I mean, you can gather as many as you want. You can gather as many as you can hold out a can of tuna for as long as you want probably. They have that many down at the Humane Society so you can do it.

You're allowed. So apparently only a couple of them are outdoor cats. And oh god only a couple of them. So that's imagine the litter boxes in there hopefully hopefully the litter boxes now what Laran would say the cops the cops the cats keep coming it would be really funny if it was the cops for what I'm gonna say the cops keep coming onto my property and shitting in my vegetable cart it would be very different than the

cats come over and shit my vegetable garden Yeah, I just pictured a guy in full uniform pants down squat and like somebody Yeah, like holding it up by the belt that's what I figured So that's so Lauren and Barbara would complain that they have so many cats they get into the garden and then Donald and his mother would say that's not true these cats don't go on your property meanwhile their outdoor cats they go over the fuck they want there's no they

don't know of a property line. Cat shit in my vegetable garden your cats are coming in my vegetable garden. That's happening. No other way it's happening and he sees them too they see them wandering around their yard and shit like that and Yeah, so they would do that they get into the garden all the time So this there's no legal thing here. So that just escalates the argument Laran at one point put up a giant Plastic like black plastic barrier. Yeah to block the light coming from the security lights. Cause unplugging it wasn't a permanent solution apparently.

Yeah, cause that just got plugged back in I guess. So he puts up like 20 foot high black plastic, like a giant fucking wall between the two houses of black plastic so they can see that. Yeah. So then Donald installed another light that shined around that to get onto the property Yeah, just to be a dick So Donald would start he'd go out. He had a diesel truck. That was very loud Yeah, he'd go out in the middle of the night and just start it up and leave it running for an hour Just an hour. Yeah, well he leaf blows probably you know like Yeah. Well, he leaf blows probably, you know, like, damn it.

So they're obviously trying to piss each other off, especially Donald is definitely trying to piss Larin off. I don't know if Lauren's trying to piss Donald off or just retaliating when things get done. That's we're trying to save his own sanity by blocking him out. And that's what I mean. And that's the dispute in the neighborhood is whose fault this is. And you know, when there's two grown men involved here This is grumpy old men taken to a fucking extreme

Yeah, I mean, you know those two were just put a fish in the car and they joke around and hey asshole And hey shithead and you know and break up the ice on his roof So when he knocks or slams the door, yeah, it all falls down. Yeah, the hose up there, right? Yeah Yeah, that's all yeah,, just sprayed the hose up there. They were doing like 12-year-old pranks. These people are trying to make each other's lives miserable. Someone then shot out Donald's lights. And he suspected Laren did it.

No shit. Good guess. Good guess. The guy who unplugged them and put plastic up to hide from them. He probably lost it one night, couldn't take it anymore. So Donald calls the sheriff on Laren again and Laren says, I'm going to shoot out the lights. Prove it.

Yeah. There's no way to prove it. So that's that. I mean, it's his word against his word. Who knows? It could have been anybody. A lot of people pissed off at him and those stupid lights. These are Donald had 13 security lights aimed at Larins windows at one point.

All just aimed at he was just going on Amazon fucking buying. Oh, that one's strong. How many watts is that? Holy shit. How many lumens? Let's get it. Wow. Look at that.

I could land a plane with that fucking thing. Awesome. That fucking thing awesome. So apparently someone, don't know who, wounded two of Donald's mom's cats with a pellet gun. Not killed them, but wounded them with a pellet gun. So obviously they blame Laren for that because. And that's a dick move. You don't shoot people's animals with a pellet gun. It's not their fault.

They're cats, they're gonna go where they go. If they're let outside, they're going to go wherever they go. And especially if there's nice soft dirt to shit in, that's where they're going to go shit. There's no other way of avoiding that. You ever had a sandbox in your backyard? It's just full of cat shit. Full of cat shit.

Cats from everywhere will find it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They'll sniff it out. I remember in elementary school, it was like, that was before anybody went in the sandbox, you better fuckin' sift that shit first and throw the cat shit out of it, because it's gonna be in there.

Wherever there are little drag marks and a mound, there's shit beneath it. For sure shit. I think in elementary school, there was like a little shovel by it, like a little plastic shovel to like, get cat shit out of it. I think it was.

I think they learned to like, one of those like, rake things, like a sand set, like a of it. I think it was. I think they learned it like one of those rake things, like a sand set, like a beach set. Like a beach set that comes in a bucket, basically. It was like one of those next to it, so you could fucking get the shit out of it. Yeah, pull the shit out before you go down the slide and land in a mountain of cat shit.

Just a giant mountain of cat shit. So yeah, you don't do that. You go after the people, not the animals for doing that. Laren denies harming animals because he loves animals. He goes, I'm an animal lover. I wouldn't shoot fucking animals. I wouldn't shoot cats. I got so many chihuahuas.

Look at all the chihuahuas I got here. Now who knows, too. If they were letting the cats wander around the neighborhood, maybe the cats, maybe they were shitting in somebody else's idea. I feel like none of the neighbors here are super Friendly or whatever. Maybe they might be friendly, but I feel like all of them are going to be standoffish when pushed, you know Possibly. Yeah what it feels like here Um, so yeah, the animal control is called again about larin not having licensing to breed dogs

Donald contacted the media and animal control to try to like, the local media to try to shame Larin, apparently. Animal control took some of the dogs and Larin was fined for ordinance violations and he couldn't breed dogs anymore because now they were watching him. And he's got too many on his property at once. There's probably a law for dogs, but not for cats. I don't know.

There's gotta be a law for cats too. Gotta be. I suppose, but I guess they don't bark so I don't know. There's gotta be a law for cats too. Gotta be. I suppose, but I guess they don't bark so you don't know they're there. Yeah. If you walked into a house with- But when it's feed time, it's so loud. Holy shit.

If you walked into a house with 20 cats, besides the smell, you'd probably see four cats. Yeah. The rest of them would be hiding in places looking at you. You might see four cats and 12 sets of eyes. Yes. So anyway, yeah, he gets fine, Laren. Apparently at one point there was some kind of argument and Donald's mom was outside and she was over on the other property and arguing so Laren sprayed her with a hose. Which is the equivalent of spraying a water bottle at a cat to me.

You like cats so much? Here you go, I'll treat you like one. He hit her with the hose. So Donald came over, threatened to kill Laren for that. Okay. Spray my mom with a hose. Donald would talk shit about Laren every fucking where he could to everybody he could. He called not only the sheriff's department, animal control, he called every government

agency he could get to try to get him in trouble. He called the newspapers, the fucking televisions to everybody. He called the EPA about a polluted well on Larins property he called the EPA for Christ's sake I wouldn't even know how to get their number I mean I guess you probably Google it but is there a branch in every state I don't know he said hello EPA my neighbor's got a polluted well yeah okay and then at one point I guess someone removed a property stake from Larins land Obviously probably Donald here. Yeah, by the way the polluted well

the reason why it's still polluted is apparently the way it works is Larin would need to use Donald's property to get the shit out of the well because it's the shit in the well But Donald won't let Laren use his property So he won't let him use it, but then he'll call the cops on him and say it's polluted. So it's important Someone removed a property stake. So a surveyor had to come out to redo it. Yeah, and while the surveyors out there He goes man. He goes. Yeah your neighbor. That's some kind of some kind of something there huh and he goes oh yeah that guy's a pain in the ass he goes well hopefully you don't end up like the last guy and larren went huh they didn't tell nobody told him this is how he found out nobody none of the

neighbors none of the fucking real estate ain't nobody said hey last guy who lived here at beef with him he shot to death no one said that did Larry's Larry was like what the fuck are you kidding at beef with him, he shot to death. No one said that to Larry. So Larry was like, what the fuck? Are you kidding me? He goes, oh, yeah, he shot this Kenneth Vaughn fucking shot him to death, man. He goes, but he said they claim self-defense and all that. So Larry was a little scared. A little puzzled, a little put off.

He didn't realize. Then, right after that, he receives a letter, Larry does, from the VA hospital, the Veterans Administration Hospital. Yeah. It is from a psychiatrist at the local Veterans Administration Hospital. Uh-huh. Now, you ever gotten a letter from a psychiatrist at the VA before? I haven't.

No. A cold letter from a psychiatrist is, that's weird. Yeah. This isn't someone he's seeing or anything like that. This psychiatrist is sending Larry a letter cautioning him that, hey, there's a guy named Donald who apparently is your neighbor. Basically when he talks to me, Donald, because Donald goes there for therapy, he just threatens to kill you the whole time.

That's all it is. It's just, I'm going to kill that son of a bitch for an hour. So you should probably, he just- 15 minutes of him just, hey, motherfucking you. That's it. No, no, no. Threatening to kill him, not just motherfucking him. Talking about ways he's going to kill him.

Should I blow up his house? Should I shoot him? Should I do all like, so yeah, so much so that a psychiatrist actually has to go outside of the confidentiality to warn somebody about it. Now I don't know if the proper thing is to warn the actual person or if you're supposed to go to the authorities with that, but I'm not a doctor, so I don't know.

Yeah, when you're gonna harm others like that, I mean, if you're threatening, I think it's authorities. I don't think it's the person. Yeah, I don't think you're supposed to send an unsolicited letter to the person. Yeah. Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes. Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story. One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror. So when we look in the mirror, the

only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast The Real History of Dracula. We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker rated ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science and religion, and how even today we remain in thrall to his strange creatures of the night. You can binge all episodes of The Real History of Dracula exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery+, The Wondria, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either until I came

face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained.

Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,, Amazon Music or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. In the Pacific Ocean, halfway between Peru and New Zealand, lies a tiny volcanic island. It's a little known British territory called Pitcairn and it harbored a deep dark scandal. There wouldn't be a girl on Pitcairn once they reach the age of 10 that would still emerge. It just happens to all of us. I'm journalist Luke Jones and for almost two years I've been investigating a shocking story that has left deep scars on generations of women and girls from Pitcairn. When there's nobody watching, nobody going to report it,

people will get away with what they can get away with. In the Pitcairn Trials, I'll be uncovering a story of abuse and the fight for justice that has brought a unique, lonely Pacific Island to the brink of extinction. Listen to the Pitink of extinction. Listen to the Pitcairn Trials exclusively on Wondering Plus. Join Wondering Plus in the Wondering app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Hey, just to warn you, and this guy, the psychiatrist though advised him

to contact the police immediately to try to get a restraining order, because he said, this guy, it's escalating. No, that's your job. So I mean, he told you, they're gonna believe you. He said, but I would try to get, well he said, I would try to get a restraining order against him, he said,

because he goes, this guy, it's escalating how much he's talking about you. So just to let you know, you know, you got issues here, yeah. So, Lauren goes to the court to try to get a restraining order with this letter going, I got a letter from a fucking shrink saying, you know, this, blah, blah, blah.

The judge wouldn't allow the letter from the VA into evidence. HIPAA, is that why? Due to rules of evidence, I guess. I don't know what those rules were. And psychiatrists couldn't be at the hearing. They couldn't make it there. So the restraining order was denied.

Wow. So yeah, he can't get a restraining order. Okay. So what he does instead is, Larin gets a big giant piece of plywood and fucking writes the word murderer on it with an arrow pointing to fucking Donald's house. And he's got it on his own property He puts it like on his house with a fucking arrow pointing over there murder that way So I don't know maybe that'll keep him from murdering me

He so it seems like kind of angering the hive I would think but okay certainly pissing on it Donald extremely pissed about the sign real mad about He doesn't want to be called a murderer. Yeah, he reached out to the media again and asked for help. Hey, will you, you know, shame this guy? They're like, but didn't you kill your neighbor that lived there? Yeah, aren't you technically a murderer? I mean you're a killer at least. I mean murder's a legal term. Yeah. That's not really a, that's not a technical term, but you killed him for sure. How about killer?

Why don't we make a- Yeah, because murder is like a charge, right? Yes murder description. Yeah, exactly Murders a legal definition. Whereas a killing is just you fucking person was alive and now they're not anymore You fucked that up. So your actions. Yeah, those are your actions. Then there's the fence from hell as they called it Okay, no man's land out there some fucking barbed wire. That's it? No man's land out there? Some fucking barbed wire? It seems like no one knows who put this fence up by the way. One side says the other side put it up, one side says the other side put it up back and forth. They had to have contributed to it both.

I think they're building it from both sides. I really believe that that's what's going on. It's like the Berlin Wall. There's different shit going on both sides of this shit. It consists of, in addition to mainly black plastic, but to hold the black plastic altogether is pallets, chicken wire, barbed wire, whatever shit they can find to make a barrier, basically. A bunch of shit that if you crawled across it you'd get cut up. Exactly.

Now, Laren says Donald built it and it's on his property. So he tells them move that fucking fence onto your property and Donald said no, not doing it. It's your fence. So Laren started to fear for his life like because he got that letter He's starting to get freaked out August 30th 2013 Local police still haven't taken any action. They just come out there and they go these two idiots again

Cut it out assholes. And then they go back they get back in their car a physical altercation breaks out here apparently They get one argument and Lauren this is according to documents here, grabbed Donald by the hair, punched him in the face and kicked him in the head in the sides. He beat the shit out of him is what that is. What he did is win. He grabbed him, punched him, knocked him down, then stomped him.

That's what he did. Kicked the piss out of the guy. Apparently, this caused pretty good injuries to Donald here, taking an ass-whupping, and made him fear for his life, he said, Donald. He was terrified now. Yeah, he lost the fight. He made his matches when he did.

For sure. When you're 5'5", a buck 30, you should probably not be starting physical altercations with people. With industrial welders. Maybe not. So. Doncations with people. With industrial welders. Maybe not. Don't fight union members. Yeah, no. And he's like, Laren's like a fucking hippie too. He like smokes weed and he's digging a Koi pond.

Like he's not, I don't think this is normal behavior here. So an attorney told Donald to get a restraining order and they were basically, they ended up getting a restraining order. they were basically they got they ended up getting a restraining order. Donald did against Laren because they were successful using the elderly laws because he was like, he was like 64 and Laren was 59. So he wasn't that old yet. So I think he's a year younger than him.

I think it's this would be 60 in 2000. He'd be like 63 at this point. Yeah, he's a year younger than him So that makes it that makes him three years younger than oh is he okay? But there it's on one guys on one side of 60 and one guys on the other side of 60 which makes it Meanwhile one was a sophomore while the other was a senior. What are we talking about? They both went to Vietnam. They're the same. Yeah. They fucking ate in the same cafeteria. This is crazy. This is a fair fight. We's legal. Yeah. We's legal.

So, anyway, this, he gets a restraining order and now it's even worse now. So, Laren wanted one, couldn't get one, Donald got one against him. And, like we said, the neighbors here are like, Jesus Christ, you know, this is nuts. Like the whole thing is crazy. And they're starting to just blame Donald because they're like, okay, well, this is two guys in a row. And it's the same. There's one common thing here.

The common denominator is one asshole. One asshole. So Donald started carrying a gun whenever he was outside of his house on the property so he wouldn't get beat up again, he said. There was different times where both of them were pointing guns at each other from over the fences, making threats at each other. September 7th, 2013. The fence is the issue. The fence from hell. On this day, I guess Donald said that he's working on the fence on his side of the fence, working on it, while on a

ladder installing more barbed wire. Okay now his by the way, is in the house, even though she'll back up his story 100% later, she's in the house. Barbara, Lauren's wife here, says that Lauren had taken his truck over to the fence and was in the bed of his truck making repairs to his side of the fence. So they're both doing shit over there. He's using his truck as a ladder. Apparently at a nowhere Barbara was outside, she heard a gunshot and it was Donald firing at Larin as Larin was running away in the opposite direction. Oh my God. Yes, apparently he was trying to take, Larin was trying to tape over holes in the plastic

and whatever. Now Donald claimed that Lauren was trespassing and called the police. Then he shot him three times while he was running away. He shot Lauren three times in the back by the way from a decent distance. He claims that the reason he did this is because Laurenin he was just repairing the fence and out of nowhere Like this is ridiculous. This is like like like a fucking horror movie all of a sudden of The whole burst through the plastic and larin came through the plastic to kill him. He just sure he was so he's like Oh my god, my only recourse is to pull my gun so he's My only recourse is to pull my gun. Kool-Aid made the defense.

Yup. He said he took his gun and he shot. He said he fired two shots in self-defense. Meanwhile, he shot three times, by the way. So he definitely didn't fire twice. Barbara said that Laren was attempting to abide by the restraining order. She said he was happy about the restraining order

because that kept Donald away from him. It's effectively the same thing as us getting one. It just kept us apart. So he said that he fell down. He was reaching over. He fell into the fence from the bed of the pickup truck. She said he fell into the fence. He didn't go through the fence. He just fell into it. And that apparently set Donald off. She said she had just walked away to get something from the garage and she said Larren was running away when she was watching him run away while three shots were fired and the third shot struck him good, I guess. I think he got shot twice though.

Yeah, Donald fired his weapon, hit him in the back, and Larren bled out and died on the property. Oh my God! Right there. Yep, on the property. Two neighbors? Yeah, two! And from the same fucking house Donald's killed. Oh my God. So now Barbara Hicks, Larren's wife, saw the shooting and told investigators, there was

no fight, there was no anything. He fell into the fence and then Donald threatened him and Larin tried to run away and Donald shot him in the back There's really no yeah, you can't do anything about that a shot in the back is hard to defend. You know what I mean? Yeah, you can't there's no Yeah, no defense for that. So he had donnelless talk to the cops obviously and he told the investigators He was putting barbed wire along the fence when an intoxicated Larin lunged through the plastic and grabbed his shorts Like tried to take him back to like poltergeist through the TV and pull him into the other side here So I guess easily said at that point Donald said I dropped my hammer and grabbed the pistol

I was wearing in a holster and I just fired toward him. I just didn't even think about it. He said, if I didn't have a pistol, I'd be beat up, maybe dead on his side of the fence. Oh, he's going to drag him over there. He's going to drag me over and kill me over there. You know what I mean? That's what he has to do. So this is from Detective Brian Scott, who's working this case.

He said, Mr. Easley's explanation for shooting Mr. Estes is that he was defending himself after Mr. Estes grabbed him and attempted to jerk him over the fence. Okay. Wow. Ms. Hicks, that's Barbara, states that there was no altercation between Mr. Easley and her boyfriend prior to the shooting and that Mr. Easley stuck his hand through a hole in the fence and shot Mr. Estes in the back as he was attempting to get away from the property line. Wow.

That is wild. The next day after the shooting, Barbara files for a stalking protective order against Donald and she's granted it. Okay, he already killed my husband, so maybe now I get it. So now they're thinking, do we arrest him or not? He's not immediately arrested Donald. Is that right? This shit goes on for like a month

where they're trying to figure out what to do. Investigators said they needed to look at the situation and I don't know, he's shot in the back. Yeah, there's no, that's open and closed case. Period. And it's not even on your property where you could do some kind of castle doctrine, stand your ground, all that.

He's on another property fleeing from you. There's not a lot of legal legs to stand on here for him. So they said because he's shot in the back, that means that Larin was running away from him, not toward him. His self-defense is really, it's hard to beat someone up as you're running from them it's not good yeah so he is arrested yeah he is charged with murder with a firearm and unlawful use of a weapon with a firearm so here's another strange

stat okay this is crazy Barbara this is the fourth husband that's died. She's a quadruple widow. What are the odds of a guy with shooting, shooting the second neighbor who also happens to be the fourth dead husband of somebody. What are the odds of that? Like how often does that ever happen in this world? I think you ever meet a woman and date her after three husbands are dead and then you move in to a house and the guy Next door shot the guy that used to live Fuck out of that relationship It's not even it's not her fault she's just bad luck you're a jinx fuck off. I don't want to be around you what? Wow, she said I'm lost

I'm lost without I love him and I miss him very much as her statement. Maybe I'll find somebody else. That is crazy So the investigators state from the beginning that the Vaughn shooting the first one Kenneth Vaughn shooting four years earlier, had not influenced the investigation at all. Although, how would it not? You gotta take that into account. It's too big a coincidence otherwise, you know? He's held on no bail here, he's denied bail. Barbara said that the weight, she's got some little breath there,

sigh of relief that he's not gonna he's not going to be next door while this is going on. She said, I'm very grateful to know he's not going to be released, that we can all rest easy. And yeah, she said that everybody for the week before he's arrested, she said that her and other neighbors she talked to feared for their lives too. So yeah, yeah, she said that she'll at least she'll feel safe. She said it's in God's hands It's in the justice system right now and he'll pay for what he's done

So yeah, she supported she came to the all the court shit here now Estes mother and brother would also come there and you know watch everything they said this is her his mother. This is You know watch everything they said this is her his mother. This is Lauren's mother there's a four-letter word that describes Lauren What is that? L-O-V-E Yeah, when someone says that you go what? Which one shit no shit So the trial comes up basically and they're trying to a lot of it kind of

Centers around the fence from hell like a lot of this beef did before trial Donald moved for an order to instruct the state to refrain Absolutely for making any reference whatsoever about his involvement in a prior altercation with his previously shot neighbor Don't bring up my prior here, which resulted in the death. He argued that any evidence referring to that incident would be inadmissible because the evidence is too unreliable to meet the threshold for admissibility. Well, did you shoot him and is he dead? Pretty reliable.

Is he still here? Yeah, that the evidence is not relevant and therefore not admissible. I don't think there's any evidence on earth that could be more relevant than this. And he did the exact same fucking thing, that the evidence is improper character evidence and admissible under basically only if he takes a stand and makes character an issue, then it's admissible. That's a character issue, not a prior is what he's saying. All right.

And the prejudicial effect of the evidence outweighing its probative value to the jury. In other words, you don't let them know I shot another guy. Right. Obviously. So the state responded that although the evidence that he shot Kenneth was not independently relevant, it was made relevant by the evidence

that the defendant stated on a number of different occasions to a number of different people that Lahren was at risk of beating the same fate as Vaughn. Hope I don't have to shoot him like the last one. That makes it relevant. The state said that without knowing what happened to Vaughn, the jury would not recognize the defendant's statements as threats to kill Estes. So you have to let him in. The state argued that the evidence of the threat spoke to his state of mind and therefore

were admissible, the court ruled that the evidence was relevant for the limited reasons articulated by the state to explain what the defendant meant when he told people what happened to Vaughn might happen to Estes. There are going to be a bunch of witnesses come up and say that same thing is going to happen to that guy. They don't know what that means. And further, that the evidence that the defendant had made those threats was relevant to show his state of mind and negate his claim of self-defense. Donald also moves that trial to introduce a range of evidence of Lahren's character and his propensity for violence and aggression to show that Donald had a reasonable belief

that he needed to shoot Estes to defend himself. The evidence consisted primarily of testimony from eight witnesses regarding Estes' reputation for violence and aggression and the witnesses' opinion of Estes' violent and aggressive behavior as well as some evidence regarding specific circumstances of violent and aggressive conduct. The court admitted some of the evidence but ruled that Donald had failed to establish an adequate foundation to allow for the admission of most of the testimony regarding Estes's reputation

and other people's opinions of his character. They exclude an audio recording, the trial judge, of a conversation involving Donald, a neighbor of his, and two unidentified persons in which one person stated she believed that Larren had fired a shotgun into the air and another person said that he saw Larren with a pistol. Okay. The court reasoned that absent testimony from the defendant about what he was thinking at the time of the shooting, it would be speculative to infer that the instances of estus's conduct

discussed on the tape bore on his belief. So basically, if you want to put that in, you better get on the stand and tell them that that's what you thought. We're not just going to put a tape in and let you not testify, but let you basically testify from an audio recording. Not going to do that, the judge said. So they also ruled that the neighbor could not testify regarding specific instances of conduct by Estes. They apparently would have testified that she observed him possess and use a gun. Okay. Also excluding testimony from another witness that said that Lauren had once tried to poke her with a pitchfork He's just a little devil. That's all Okay, so that's so you know sometimes you got to kill a guy sometimes you got kill a guy

Prosecutor said Estes backed his truck up to the fence to make some repairs or standing in the bed of his truck Estes realized easily had a gun, he started running, and he said Mr. Estes was shot in the back while retreating at a distance. The defense would argue that when calling 911, Barbara didn't mention that Laren fell into the fence then. Oh? They also, she was too worried about can you get an ambulance here so my husband doesn't die. They also pointed out she had apparently stated that she heard easily yell out, not, not Larren. Probably don't shoot me. Yeah.

Put your gun away. They admit evidence that Donald shot his neighbor prior, shot Vaughn. Like we said to, for a state of mind. Barbara corroborated the evidence that Donald intentionally killed Larin. She testified that Donald started shooting at Larin through the fence dividing the neighbors properties after he slipped at the fence. So verdict comes up. This could go, I mean, you get some rural Oregon people, they might go, I mean, shit, they beat the shit out of them last month. Who knows? Anything could happen well they should have everybody should

leave everybody alone they find him yeah guilty of murder yeah you can't do that shoot a man in the back can't do in the back that's if he shot him in the front he could have said anything you wanted can't he's feasible yeah if he's 30 feet away with a gunshot wound in his back you did that's not self-defense ever you took the gun out that got him away from you. That's it. End of story. It worked.

You don't have to use it every time. So during sentencing, he makes a rambling statement here. He apologized to the family, he said. Not Barbara though. No? Nope. She can fuck off. Not Barbara, and he repeatedly proclaimed his innocence awesome He stood there, and he just rambled and rambled blamed everybody else

This guy's an asshole this one and Barbara's a twat and my mom's got cats all this shit here He accused Barbara of lying and with basically He accused Barbara of lying and with basically while he is asking for mercy he is just talking shit about the victim and his and his victim's wife. Yeah. There are pieces of shit and all this stuff and everything. I'm so sorry. The judge said, well number one you're blaming everybody here but yourself.

Taking zero responsibility. No responsibility and to that I say you, may fuck off life in prison with parole. No parole for 25 years. He's 65. So I don't think so. 90. Yeah, I don't think so. You might get out as you're dying in your eighties with that, you know, whatever they do now, geriatric consideration. He's also ordered to pay over $4,000 in restitution to Barbara as well. Oh.

Which you know that pissed him off a lot. That's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. He appeals in 2018, basically, it's all bullshit. He's saying they should have let in that. He's a reputation and opinion of character evidence. They should have not let his in and they should have let more of Laren's in,

is what he's saying. That audio recording that was excluded, saying they said that should have been in there. And also the specific instances of conduct. Basically, he wanted to bring in, anytime Laren ever told someone to fuck off in traffic. He wanted to bring that person in and say, see how bad of a guy he is?

That really isn't relevant here. So his appeal is denied. He is currently residing at the Two Rivers Correctional Institution. Near Two Rivers. Which sounds lovely, but I'm sure it's not. Two Rivers, oh, they come together? This is nice

He is in there for a long fucking time obviously like we said he is started a sentence in September 2014 so 25 years from then we're talking 2039. He'll be dead. That's that yeah that everybody is Kirby, Oregon What a fucking wild shit that is. Holy Christ, neighbors, just chill. Everybody chill. Get along with each other. Ignore them. Get along, man.

Yeah, just try to go. I mean, the lights, I get it though. It just escalates. Anyway, if you like that story, if you like any of our stories, get on whatever app you're listening on. Give us five stars. Say something nice.

Tell everyone. Get on social media. Tell your friends tell your neighbors when they're yelling at you go you should listen to small town murder cocksucker maybe we won't fight anymore maybe you'll understand why this is a bad idea for us to fight so do that hang out with us shut up and give me murder.com tickets for live shows terrytown couple left boston couple left. New tour being announced very soon within this week. When you're listening to this, it might already be up.

So check that out. New cities coming there. Patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of your bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month, you get all hundreds of back episodes you've never heard. New ones every other week. This week, one crime and sports, one Swallow Town murder.

You get it all. Crime and sports, we are gonna you get it all crime and sports We are gonna talk about some disgusting English soccer sex scandal. It's just gross pedophiles and weirdos and Fucking creepy people then oh my and then for small town murder We're gonna talk about the cult baby murder trial people which is polygamy and pee drinking and all sorts of weird shit going on There and fucking cult culling teenage girls from bus stations. Weird stuff. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. Follow us. You get a shout out at the end of the regular show too.

Keep hanging out with us. You want to follow us on social media. It's all at shutupandgivemurder.com. Drop down. Menus abound. Keep coming back and seeing us. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last

fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen,C's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts.