Small Town Murder - #565 - The Fugitive Temptress - Princeton, West Virginia

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

This week, in Princeton, West Virginia, a brutal murder takes place, in a rural backyard, spreading blood & brain matter all over the victim's horrified wife. It looks like an attempted robbery, until detectives do some digging, and find that it's actually a pretty crazy conspiracy, involving sex & greed. When one of the main suspects disappears, the whole thing is becomes a national story, as everyone searches for "The Fugitive Temptress"!! Plus, a special bonus murder!!Along the way, we find out that your town shouldn't consider Applebee's to be "night life", that sometimes people must be attracted to things in people that NO ONE else sees, and that if you're going to plan a murder, you should pick a better crew than a drug addict, and a "first degree dirtbag"!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, in Princeton, West Virginia, a brutal murder in a rural backyard at first seems like a robbery but soon develops into a horrifying conspiracy that is both cruel and completely idiotic. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo.

I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another absolutely crazy episode of Small Town Murder. All I have to say is two words, West Virginia. That's where we are this week. You know it's crazy, we'll put it that way. There we go.

We'll get to that. First of all, very quickly, shutupandgivemeurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows this year. February 7th, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. You are up on deck. Get in there. The next night in Columbus, sold out already. So no tickets for that

Thank you Columbus for selling that out. You guys are great. So thank you for that Also, I think there's about 20 tickets left to Portland in November. So it's 99% sold out I saw so you might want to get in there and also Philly DC Seattle all is at the end of the year selling real fast Madison's almost sold out already. That was so it's crazy. So thank you so much everybody for doing that. Shut up and give me murder.com.

Get your tickets today for all the 2025 live shows. Also get yourself Patreon. Do yourself a favor. Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material five dollars a month or above you get everything hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before new ones every other week one crime in sports one small-town murder and you get all of it low low price and this week is no different this week for crime and sports we

are going to talk a little bit about Kobe Bryant's problems back in Colorado. Yeah, we're gonna talk about Kobe's Colorado problems from 2005 or whatever it was. We'll get into that. We'll read the whole, the deposition, and we'll try to figure out what went on there basically because it's a big cloudy thing that everybody, nobody really knows what happened,

so we'll read and find out what actually happened. Then for Small Town Murder, back by popular demand we're going to do another internet salad here okay which means anything that's going on on the internet the day we record except politics yeah everybody we did it around the election with it when all the news is politics we're gonna say here's all the news that isn't politics and we're gonna have a great time with it it's gonna be a lot of fun patreon.com slash crime and sports and you get a shout out at the end of the show So there you go, Jimmy will mispronounce your name even though he'd love to get it. Correct. So that's how that goes

disclaimer time Number one, we're comedians. This is a comedy show, but the murders are insanely real. That's the thing There's nothing is embellished for comic effect or no silliness like that. These are absolutely meticulously researched murder stories that are insanely factual that we make jokes on. That's what happens. But you say, how the hell do you do that?

Well, number one, we think it makes it a little more digestible. I don't know. The somberness of a lot of these, it makes me very uncomfortable And it's hard to listen to stories like that a little joke here and there But when it's appropriate see what you don't do is you don't make fun of the victims or the victims families Why James because we're assholes yes, but but we're not scumbags see how that works

It's great the way it works, and the show works wonderfully We think you'll love it if you don't love it Then I don't know maybe true crime and comedy doesn't ever go together for you. But for the rest of people who really want to hear a crazy story about this, we got a wild one for you here. I think it's time everybody to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs, shall we here?

Let's go arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We have to. We have to.

We're going to Princeton, West Virginia this week. Yeah. Princeton, like the Ivy League. Is that where the college is? That is Princeton, New Jersey. Yeah. Absolutely. Princeton.

And then you get to West Virginia and go, wow, this isn't what I expected, especially where this is. This is like rural Southern West Virginia. It's about an hour 40 to Roanoke, Virginia. So it's down by the Virginia border. It's about 55 minutes to sky gusty West Virginia, which was our last West Virginia episode, the trust game, which was a bad game. Oh, that was terrible. Terrible, terrible game, you know, on any part of that.

And it's really close to Parisburg, Virginia, which we did about a month ago for the Appalachian Trail Killer guy. So it is this is a real interesting area around here. It's in Mercer County, area code 304. And the motto here is it is the quote heart of Mercer County. Is it? I guess. I don't know what that means.

There's a lot of the heart. Yeah, a lot of hard of and a lot of live, work and play bullshit. They like to throw in there a little bit of history of this town. Not too much, but a little bit in southern West Virginia, late 19th century. So late 1800s coal mining and transportation became a big deal here. That was a... So you had the railroads and they were in with the coal mines because you needed to

get the coal out of there somehow. So a lot of the region's coal was sent northwest to the Great Lakes or over to Baltimore and the coal piers in Baltimore or to the world's greatest ice-free port of Hampton Roads in East, Virginia. That's what they say It's low ice free. I guess not gonna freeze ice over for some reason Princeton's location was east of the coal fields and most of the coal mining and railroad Railroad activity was somewhere else at first But then it became a thing that ended up being with Princeton. Princeton got real tied up in the railroad, the Virginia Railroad, it was just called the VGN.

But the problem is basically, a mountain that's filled with coal doesn't last forever. So once that's depleted, then you just got the the companies leave and then that's that and they leave behind depleted mines and things like that and the same thing happens with the railroads that are no longer needed either for the coal so by 2006 here the VGN Prince it that's the Virginia Railroad Princeton shops facilities were demolished there and these were like really old Buildings to that kind of gave the town some character Some charm so the residents were really upset about this that they all got torn down

So they built a replica of the VGN's two-story Princeton passenger station and offices They just but there's no they just built it So people and they said it's the largest effort in the entire state. This is a state that is dying from opioid epidemic and it has the lowest income in the country, the lowest housing price. Everything here is depressed and low and they're like, what if we spent a bunch of money to build a replica of a building that made people smile? Like what the hell are you talking about?

What about all the new one do? It'll make us smile. That's terrific. As I was telling you about a star high school player, a football player who wanted to play for the Mountaineers, I think he may have went to them, went and played for the Mountaineers for like one season, either got hurt or failed out. And then the last scene of the documentary is him plucking coal off the side of a mountain to warm his chest.

To warm his house, like in American Hollow, like on the ground going in the mountain to pick it, yeah. Oh my God, that's so sad. That's fucking horrible that people live like that. But they got enough money to build replica. Yep. I don't think a lot of people realize that there's people living a Charlie Buck lifestyle in it's really fucked right now

I don't think they realize that this second right this fucking minute There are people that technologically cannot listen to what we're doing right? Yes, literally No matter how much they want to they'd have to go to a McDonald's to do it have to go to McDonald's to do it. Shocking. They don't even have the actual machine to go to McDonald's to get on the Wi-Fi to listen to it. They can't even do it. Technically they could if they really wanted to.

But they got the replica train station. That is wild. So reviews of this town, they got that though. That's very important. Reviews of this town, four stars here is the first one depends on who you ask I suppose How about we're asking you you're the one leaving the review? Okay? That's the thing When if someone brings your food and you eat it and they go, how is your lunch and you go depends on who you ask? Who the fuck else am I asking you ate the sandwich? Tell me whether it's good or not

Who the fuck else am I asking? You ate the sandwich, tell me whether it was good or not. You're here, fucker. It's okay, kind of quiet, and used to be low crime, but the past couple years it has spiked due to the high drug activity that's taken over the whole county that Princeton is in. And that's pretty much all of West Virginia at this point. Mostly property crimes or theft.

Well, we'll see about that later. We have the stats here. So, depends on which part of Princeton you live, but the more rural areas in Mercer County outside of Princeton, in my opinion, are better choices on where to live if you're going to move here. That's where our story takes place. Go more rural?

Yes, outside of this tiny town we'll talk about is not very big. Okay. The job market in Princeton, to me, are much to be desired, as there are way more banks, fast foodfood restaurants and used car lots than anything else Leaving not a lot of choice unless you're fine with these types of jobs. So that's every small town limited employment That's what you get three stars crime is everywhere

Yeah, whether wherever you go you are going to have crime. There's crime here. You just don't hear of it that often go you are going to have crime. There's crime here you just don't hear of it that often. Okay so it's not affecting you that's good. I think that mainly the problem is neighbors disrespecting neighbors. Really? That doesn't sound like crime that just sounds like people are dicks. That sounds awful. I know I've had to call the cops a few times at where I live just because of the neighbors. Either they're being too loud or simply being rude. You call the cops because your neighbors are rude? We can't do that. You are, you can't be building fucking replica train stations

and wasting resources because your people, you gotta think for a minute where you live and this is valuable resources here. Hello 911, yeah, Bill didn't say good morning. Yeah. It's a high crime area, but rudeness is really what we should worry about. Wow. But I've come to realize that no matter where you go, you're going to have problems. Yeah, you just described everywhere. One star, I love this. One star, there is no nightlife in Princeton. The Applebee's in town is open until 11. That's the nightlife, the Applebee's. And that's the closest thing to nightlife in Princeton the Applebee's in town is open until 11

That's the nightlife the Applebee's and that's the closest thing to nightlife that this town gets The bars here are dives and so full of crime any decent person will be too scared to go in them Really wild and wonderful whites of West Virginia picture those bars Shirtless slot players and pill snorting off the back of a dirty toilet. Hello, nine one one. There's a barbecue next door. Is it too loud? No, they didn't invite me.

They didn't invite me. And it's it smells good, too. They got ribs down. Not rude. I smell I smell groundhog cooking. All right. One star lived here for 20 years. The Princeton and surrounding areas have to become terrible have to become terrible Okay, I think have become terrible and they put two in there for some reason the roads around here are extremely dangerous with no police presence

There's all kinds of trash and debris everywhere. I'm giving it a one-star town It used to be a nice place to live, but no more. There's very little activity for children. It's pretty much right disgusting of a place. The crime rate is at no punctuation at all here. This is awesome. The crime rate is high with a bunch of drug overdoses. People are stealing items all the time. It really looks bad on the state for people

visiting the area. There definitely needs to be more police on patrol. People are just doing as they please, five exclamation points, that's the first punctuation you've come to. At one time, this town used to be very nice, I apologize to people visiting our area. Wow, apologies.

Five exclamations after that, apologies. Population of this town, 5885, so less than 6,000. It's a small area, it really is. 51% male, which is not normal. It's usually a few, a little extra female, but more male. But you get anywhere where there's coal jobs and stuff, you're gonna have a couple more males. Median age is about five years higher than the normal,

it's 43 here. Family here, it's less than the 50-50 are married. More people that are single with children. It's kind of a, yeah, less of a, seems like usually a small town like this has like, you know, high like quote unquote family numbers. And this doesn't. So that's interesting. Race in this town, 85.4% white, 6.6% black,.4% Asian, 3.8% Hispanic. And let's see here, the unemployment rate here is 7%, which is a good site higher than the rest of the country where it's hovering in the fours here,

which is not uncommon for West Virginia because those jobs go away. Yeah. Median household income here though, is only $39,569 a year. Oh boy. Which is about $30,000 less than the national average. That's not good. And the cost of living though, $100 is regular average. Here it is $71. That's a lower. Housing here though is the lowest one of all of everything. The median home cost here is $140,800. Median. Still too high. It seems

high, yeah, for not making any money, but if we've convinced you, you know what? I'm going to West Virginia. If you have just John Denver just bouncing around in your head over and over and you need it. We have for you the Princeton West Virginia real estate report. Average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $730 a month which is $500 less than the national average. Yeah very low. Here is a three-bedroom one-, one bath, 1000 square foot house. All of the pictures are like from a distance and from the outside. So that tells you a lot. No interior shots whatsoever. It is listed at $15,000. But, oh my God, 15,000. But the listing says disregard listing price. Property will be sold at auction.

Property will be sold at public auction ending Monday February 17th at 6pm and you do online bids only. You can pick that house up for less than like a 10 year old Toyota Corolla. Enjoy. Here is a four bedroom four bath, T-ball for each and every B-hole right here. 2296 square feet. It's a cool old house actually this is. It's very old, really nice. It has, the listing says it has the old home charm but with all the essential updates. They have all the original wood pocket doors entering the living room spaces and shit. Those doors that go into the walls. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

When they come out, a lot of people got rid of those back in the day, and they're kind of popular now because they're an old school feature. They still have, there's a lot of cool old features in this house, it's really nice. 295,000 bucks for that. Okay. It's a big house. 2300 square feet. Not bad. And then this house is goddamn awesome. Six bed, five bath, 6600 square feet. Enormous. Holy shit. It's beautiful on one and a half acres. It's just a cool

house. It's obviously haunted. Now that's a separate's a separate issue if you can live with the hauntings fine Ghosts with black lung yeah But the the it has a lot of it's like kind of farty like rooms will have like old-timey wallpaper in them and stuff But all the original moldings around the ceilings are all there though There's a fucking library in this with a wall.'s completely bookshelf. All books. It's so cool. It's just a cool ass house. The listing says quote, it's your turn to own the queen of Princeton, West Virginia. So this house is known as the queen of West Princeton, West Virginia.

It's the apple of the eye. If you would like to be the queen of Princeton, West Virginia, we have for you this house, 485,000 bucks. The best house in the entire county, 485,000 bucks. 6,000 square feet. 6,600 square feet, it's beautiful too. I'm telling you, if it was anywhere else, I'd be like, that's under,

fucking let's talk about this. Is there any acreage with that, or is it, even if either of them is one acre? One and a half. One and a half acres. That's amazing. Big old, nice property, it's fucking great. It's, I mean, this is a half acres? That's amazing big old nice property. It's fucking great It's I mean, this is a great property. It's the Queen damn it things to do

Celebrate Princeton festival. That's what it's called. Oh, yeah This is just a shitload of performances by different people and we'll get into all of them in the coveted 10 a.m To 11 a.m. Slot, which all the musicians love It is strings of green green with an e. It must be a guy named green in the coveted 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. slot, which all the musicians love. It is Strings of Green, green with an E. It must be a guy named Green. Yeah, I assume, or a lady named Green, I don't know. Then the 11 o'clock slot,

you got the Fluidity Performance Troop. I don't know what the hell they do. At 11.30, Into the Fog will perform. Hell yeah. Okay, interesting. 1.30, Appal will perform. Oh, yeah. Okay interesting 130 Appalachian soul man Aristotle Jones it says will be there Appalachian soul man Aristotle named after a Greek philosopher. That's Wow 330 James Hart and old soul reunion will be. And then other ones that'll just be popping up

throughout the day, Lily Comer, big fan of Lily Comer. James Hart, H-A-R-T. Yeah, sure. Okay, Brett's brother. Miles Moenique. With an E. It's Moenique with a U instead of an O.

Emma Shirey. Monique with a U instead of an O. Emma Shirey and finally of course, John Bolt will be there, you gotta have John Bolt. Is it with an E? No, no E on that one. Just a bolt in a fucking, a bolt in a piece of metal. I don't know, a single one of these people. Never heard. I'm thrilled about it to be honest.

Fucking crazy, I don't think there's, yeah these are locals I would thrilled about it, to be honest. Fucking crazy, I don't think there's, yeah, these are locals, I would imagine, from the area here. Also, all day Ferris wheel, waterslides, vendors, and other activities. That's great here. And they also have the Culture Fest World Music and Arts Festival in Princeton, West Virginia.

They also have that, so I don't know what you wanna do with that. And there's also, they have a workshop and healing arts section to that, which is a lot of yoga in the town square and things of that nature. So get on in there and do it. And all.

The entertainment in this area is bleak, but if Applebee's is all you've got at night, this is probably fucking amazing. It's something, you know what I mean? It's this or Applebee's is all you've got at night, this is probably fucking amazing. It's it's something you know what I mean? It's this or Applebee's Jesus Christ or or shirtless guys playing slots like yeah, I guess they play karaoke and fucking Trivia night of it. You have Monday through Friday Cranking they otherwise there's nothing else to do crime rate in this town town, what we are interested in here, property crime almost double the

national average. Oh my God. That's a lot. You guys really should stop building. And they're all criminals. Should stop building fancy railroad stations you don't need. Use that for the jail. Jesus Christ.

Or the drug rehab centers or something And then violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the Mount Rushmore of crime is about 50% higher than the national average There's less than 6,000 people here This should be a leave your doors open kind of town and it is not at all Leave your doors if you leave your doors open kind of town and it is not at all Leave your doors off you leave your doors open. You will wake up take your bed stolen out from under you. It sounds like You'll wake up on the floor with your comforter and your pillow and your little sleep cap on go. What the hell happened? Those criminals are good Jesus I didn't even hear So that said let's talk about some murder here because this is deep weird shit.

All right, let's talk about a lady first. Mary Naomi Lewis, okay? She's born in 1943. Mary Naomi, she goes by Naomi. Everyone calls her Naomi. The Mary she's not interested in at all. Naomi's kind of a cooler name. It is, yeah.

Mary is, especially if you 1943 ever half the girls were named Mary, so it's like yeah, but Mary's that like most important one in it's important religion Yeah, but like big one Naomi sounds yeah, she's like blonde She's cool name. She's like blonde and curvy and sexy to everybody says like she's like five one But as a rack on her everyone talks about like literally literally, a guy described her as having a great, quote, a great rack. That's why I said that, is later on. So, that's the reason why it was put like that. Love that.

Yeah, shapely and attractive, the newspaper described her as here. That's not Mary. No, that's a Naomi right there. She looked in the mirror and said, oh, I'm fucking Naomi, this is crazy. This ass is too smokin' to be Mary here. No, that's a Naomi right there. She looked in the mirror and said, oh, I'm fucking Naomi. This is crazy.

This ass is too smoking to be Mary here. So in 1972, she meets a man. Now she seems to come from a half decent background. Her father owns a business, I know, and has employees and stuff like that. So she's not from you know some this isn't the wild and wonderful lights of West Virginia okay put it that way she's pretty classy and later on we'll talk about another classy guy but first we'll talk about a guy who's not classy at all in 1972 she meets John Corp Rue jr. Corp Rue see our

CW Corp Rue Okay, John Elmer jr. Yeah, I'm calling him John Elmer for the rest of the episode because Elmer's that's a good name. He's born in 1932. So he's about 11 years older than her He is described as quote balding middle-aged and not particularly handsome. Wow what a, sounds like a great catch. Wow. Ouch. Great catch there. And she finds him apparently irresistible.

Really? Absolutely. She is working as his secretary. This guy. Which is weird because the fact when we hear about his life, the fact that he has a secretary at any point in his life is insane to me. Mind blowing. It's good to be a man in 1972, I guess. I don't know, that's all it is because he's got nothing to offer, this guy.

But he does have the fact that they've been continuously and enthusiastically in a sexual relationship since 1972 when she was his secretary at a frozen food business. Wow. Yeah. So that's how they met. And these Vandy camps got me worked up and fish. Nothing turns me on like fish sticks. That's the thing. It's all it is, man, I'm telling you. Those oh boy whatever potatoes there, the frozen, they drive me crazy. Yeah. Get me going.

Really though, the frozen food section, you walk down, everything looks pretty good. I gotta stay out of the frozen food section, man. Just, I mean, T messence all the way through it I got him I gotta move on there's very few things in there though that when they're done when you made them They're all shit. They're all shit Except for like a red barren frozen pizza comes out wonderful outside of that All the pizza things are fine pizza rolls great

Yeah, everything the pizza things are fine. Pizza rolls great. Yeah. Yeah, yeah everything else piles of shit All those fries the tater tots all that stuff garbage comes out like garbage unless you air fry it just right garbage. Yeah So he's also a diabetic And has all sorts of physical problems that he, really hot, right? Hot. God, he's just throwing dick at his secretary. And she's loving it. And he puts all this on his military service.

They said he injured himself in military service, and I don't know if he was in Korea. He was born in 32, so Korea would line up perfectly for him to be in any kind of combat situation. And I guess now he's on disability after the frozen food business. He ends up being, so he's a balding middle-aged diabetic who's not particularly handsome

and is living on disability. Ouch. A catch, a real, that's a catch right there. How's he doing it? I don't know. Apparently Naomi, as over the next few years That's a catch right there. How's he doing it? I don't know. Um, apparently Naomi As over the next few years that we'll talk about here when she meets a man She just keeps the relationship going with with john elmer here and would you play the guitar?

Dude this guy amazing. I don't know if he must be really funny or something. I don't know what the fucking deal is but She gives him all sorts of money everything from money to get his driveway paved to to buy a boat this man has a boat I don't know about in concrete she's buying fucking floating vehicles this is crazy now John Elmer's a high school graduate who did attend technical school and he has to take medication daily for a nervous condition that he's been treated for at the VA hospital. So he also says he has to inject insulin daily, because he's a diabetic as well.

Yeah. The only thing that solves his problems is eating pussy. That's... Makes him feel so much better. So he's a baldingding middle-aged nervous conditioned man Who's not particularly handsome and living on disability? I'm adding up the stats Wow and basically they would beat up regularly for sex on Various points along route 460 whatever motel sometimes in the car. That's because

Couple years after they start hooking up, she gets married. Really? And just never stops having sex with John Elmer. She just ignores the fact that she's married. Nice, right? This is good. She's married to David Cloud.

Cloud, just like a cloud in the sky. Some people call him Dave, but most people call him DB for some reason. Uh huh. Like Cooper. Yeah, that's a middle initial is B. So DB they call him. So DB Cloud. He's born in 1926. So almost, he's 17 years older than her. And he's a real wealthy guy. Does real well for himself. That's, she found stability with this guy.

Being an actual royal is never about finding your happy ending, but the worst part is, if they step out of line or fall in love with the wrong person, it changes the course of history. I'm Arisha Skidmore Williams. And I'm Brooke Siffrin. We've been telling the stories of the rich and famous on the hit, wonder show, Even the Rich, and talking about the latest celebrity news on Rich and Daily. We're going all over the world

on our new show, Even the Royals. We'll be diving headfirst into the lives of the world's kings, queens, and all the wannabes in their orbit throughout history. Think succession meets the crown meets real life. We're going to pull back the gilded curtain and show how royal status might be bright and shiny, but it comes at the expense of, well, everything else, like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head. Follow Even The Royals on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to Even The Royals early and ad free right now by joining Wondery+. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. right now by joining Wondery+. and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. He's the vice president and general manager of Carter Machinery Company, which is a Salem based company that has offices in West Virginia and like a headquarter I guess in Roanoke

that he goes to sometimes too. And basically, Naomi marries DB for a couple of months. She puts the John Elmer relationship on the back burner and then just fires it right back up again like she's never got married and continues along with it. She's in that old joke of find a find a woman that has a bunch of money and find a woman that that fucks great and never under any circumstances let them meet. Let them meet. Yeah.

Yeah. That's I think That's what she's doing. She figured it out, yeah. Wow. She figured it out. She would often, she's in the local newspaper all the time, photographed at social events or, she's like one of the queens of Princeton. I mean, she ends up owning a beauty parlor here.

She's got her own shop, she's a business owner, her husband's wealthy, they live in a nice house. They do much better than most of the people around here, so they're kind of like local royalty, these people, is the way it works. She is a member of the Downtown Merchants Association and all that shit. Very kind of stable.

Exemplary, yeah. Yeah, they're just, I don't know how to put it, but they're civic leaders too leaders to all that kind of shit She's also Operates the Merle Norman cosmetics franchise in the area. So she got herself a cosmetics franchise as well She operates that and she's also active in a lot of social events and things like that Everybody knows her from around here. I even found a newspaper article with her playing in some golf tournament It says they'll be 96 women golfers teeing off in the sixth annual Finn Castle women's golf championship

tournament this morning on the Finn Castle course and They were playing 36 holes Two rounds that's a lot. Yeah and they're playing 36 holes. Two rounds. That's a lot, yeah. So that's how that's going, but she's in the group here. So I mean, I think that's one of the 1978, 79. So I mean, I really think this is like a social thing, obviously.

That's 96 richest women in town are gonna go there. Yeah, late 70s, early 80s, the only people that played golf were very, the very wealthy. Yeah, I mean, yeah, nowadays you have people that are regular guys that go out and pay way too much money to do something they'll never get good at because they can't afford to get good at. You have to be rich to get good at golf. That's the problem.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have to. It's the most frustrating fucking thing on the planet, too. It's crazy. It's like hockey or something. Like you have to have ice time to be good at hockey. So it's one of those things. You need the ice, you need the course.

You can't just practice at home. So that's the setup here, okay? That's everybody, she's got a great life with DB. They do all sorts of shit on the surface and that everybody sees and she's in the newspaper and all that And then she goes and bangs the ugly middle-aged balding diabetic Nervous issues who lives on disability room off of route 80 or whatever the fuck And gives her it gives him like an envelope full of cash to get his roof fixed

You know what I mean? Like the gender roles are usually swapped here. Yeah, this is really weird. So January 26th 1980 we're gonna start with okay just before midnight as the Rolling Stones once said here the This okay, they're out they go to a party. It's a dinner party This is this is what rich people do have you ever gone to a dinner party at the Sahara club? No, you could have stopped at dinner party. I went and ate at someone's house a couple of times. Wouldn't call it a dinner party, but no,

I'd say I went to a Superbowl party. Yeah. They went to a dinner party at the Sahara club in blue field, which is about 12 miles from where they live. And they have a great night, such a great night, and when they get home just before midnight, he's still, he is still holding a glass of booze from the event. He brought a glass home with him.

He said, I'm brought a roadie. He pocketed it, man. Not even like a little bottle a full glass fucking rock think tank Yeah, I stinking around in there as they go over bumps and shit So they're returning from this I assume You know a little intoxicated the two of them It's obviously dark in the yard, which is weird because they have floodlights that usually are motion-censored Okay, so they're like why the fuck aren't the lights coming on this is stupid

So they go around to the back door, which I guess is how they usually enter Yeah, everybody's got a different way they get in their house. Yeah, some people front door some people It's a side door. They just go through the fucking garage. They never open their door. That's the other thing Yeah, no my mother and stepfather, I don't think they open their door for like 12 years. Like it was all garage access. They gotta pop it and it's just dust falls around. Oh, it's wild, yeah.

It just disintegrates in your hand. So they're just about, he's got a glass in one hand, his keys in the other, and he's just about to put the key in the lock to open up the door, when out of nowhere, a masked man, according to Naomi, a masked man toting a 12 gauge shotgun jumps out from the shadows. Oh boy.

And demands money from Dave. Give me all your money. Weird place for a robbery. Weird place to get stuck up in your backyard. It's not even like in town. This is like rural outside of town. So unexpected before Dave can do anything. He stand there with a scotch in one hand and a goddamn, he's got a single malt in one hand and a house key in the other. He's standing there there this guy from point-blank range just blasts him in the face with the 12 gauge. Oh My god taking a lot of his head with it as you can imagine. Yeah, that's that's brutal

I mean right in the face from from you know from me to you from right now. I mean four feet away. That's fucking insane, okay I guess this was just a obviously loud there is Spatter and brain matter and skull all over the fucking house all over Naomi who was right next to him when this happened this man after that Shoots him and then just runs out takes off through the takes off runs into the front. Got no money. Didn't rob him ever, that's the thing. So that's really weird.

Later on they'll find out he's got $150 in his pocket. Which in 1980, $150 cash, that's a good amount of money. Didn't take anything though. And very strange. Give me all your money, boom, fuck it, I'm running. Real weird. It's not like Dave went for the gun or said fuck you and like through the drink Adam or anything like that He just turned like huh?

You know you're buzzed. He's been at a cocktail party still got a drink. What's going on now boom? That's all it was now This is obviously insane cause of death is Massive head loss basically yeah, I mean yeah I mean, yeah, half your head's missing. Do I need to go into any more autopsy details? I mean, it's, yeah, it's horrifying. The ice man said his head disappeared. Yeah. That's kind of what it is.

That's kind of what it is here, yeah. A good portion of his head is all over the side of the house now, and all over the lawn. So at this moment, obviously, Naomi calls 911. She's left unscathed, minus some extra viscera covering her. She calls 911, cops, ambulance, everybody gets there. It's a crazy scene. The whole neighborhood is cordoned off, everything like that.

Now when they canvas for witnesses, witnesses say they find multiple different witnesses, not just from the same household, that say they saw two men cruising in this neighborhood multiple times that night that don't live there. Just driving around. Driving around. But the same guys in the same car, multiple times cruising around the neighborhood. So they're like, that might be a place to start, obviously, because they didn't belong here. And they weren't stopping at anyone's house or anything like that. So the cops right away are a little bit suspicious of this whole

situation. One, why would they, why would he, why would someone try to rob somebody then shoot them and then not take the money and leave a living witness standing right next to them and not take her money either didn't even grab her purse on the way out you know what I mean nothing it's odd it's odd robbery as a motive is a bizarre choice here yeah but also you might get a crackhead who got nervous and fucking pulled the trigger when he didn't mean to and that's oh shit and ran away and that happens to us I would make you panic if you didn't mean to hurt anybody yeah said, oh shit, and ran away, and that happens too. So. Yeah, I would make you panic

if you didn't mean to hurt anybody. Yeah, holy shit, yeah. Oh shit, I shot Marvin in the face. It'd be a Pulp Fiction moment, you know? Yeah. You weren't driving something like a lunatic. Yeah. You hit a bump.

I didn't hit no goddamn bump. So yeah, from the beginning, they said it just didn't make any sense. This is one of the county district attorneys said, it just didn't fit any sense. This is one of the county district attorneys said it just didn't fit the mold. Why would he be sitting in their backyard waiting for them to come home not knowing when they'd come home or who would be with them or not knowing what they were carrying? He could have gotten, could come in home with his brand new gun he just got from him. You know what I mean?

He won in a raffle at the dinner party and he's, you have no idea. Or he could have been coming home with his his friend Who's the chief of police or you you know it wouldn't make any sense at all or they might have got home at three in the Morning this guy gonna take a nap back there wait just being a West Virginian that probably carries a fucking sidearm You know you never know that's the other thing who the hell knows here So they said Naomi though definitely appeared genuinely traumatized after this. They said, which anybody should be, unless they're a really sick fuck,

they would be traumatized by wearing a lot of their husband's brain matter on their fucking clothes. They said she had never seen this type of thing before. And yeah, she was described as grief stricken. People said she was hysterical at times. And everybody said it was, you know, very normal distress because right away you look at the spouse. If you're at all suspicious of the whole thing, you look at the spouse first and look at her

reaction and if she's going, oh boy, that sucks. And shrugging her shoulders. You're like, that's crazy. You want to see some tears, some horror. I was trying to pick the head up and put Humpty back together again, Jackie O. Something, give me something here. So yeah, they said that it was obviously horrible, so her family and friends rallied around her

and things like that. They asked where she was standing and she said standing right beside him. So I mean, while she was sobbing and everything else So following this they have the report of two men in a car Driving around and that's pretty much all they have They got nothing else. I mean, it's a shotgun shotgun pellets. So there's no way to trace anything there You just have a dead guy and a woman who says I don don't know, it was dark, I had a mask on,

asked for money, shot him and ran away. I have no fucking idea. So that we're at an impasse. 1982? Is that what it is? It's 1980, January 1980. There's no physical evidence is going to be scarce. You better see the motherfucker do it if you want anybody to get in trouble.

So this leads to a nine month investigation, which I mean, and David cloud has adult children. This is his second marriage, obviously. He married a younger, attractive woman the second time here and had some kids from the first marriage. So all of his kids are like, what the fuck here? You know what I mean? How can you not solve this in nine months? They put up a reward and everything like that So they said the investigators they pieced together Other things here. They got a piece together these two David's life DB's life Yeah, and Naomi's life because that's the wife piece it all together and they started noticing that the marital Circumstances weren't exactly like she was saying and everything everything wasn't what it looked like from the outside, which is the most upstanding couple in town and

Everything's you know, hunky-dory and they find out except for the fact that she's been banging this other guy for years so there's that and They find out about it. Absolutely dig in at somebody's shit enough You're gonna find out who they're having sex with and they also said $150 or my remained in his wallet, which was in his pocket not a robbery, so they said that was weird and And they said the fact that she was completely unscathed Yeah, is odd also who kills one person not two so after a while they keep going over everything all of Dave's all of DB's office shit just anyone he could have encountered that could have

pissed him be he could have pissed off or Someone would have thought he had a lot of something that they could steal or something like that. So they found John Elmer's name written on his daily calendar in his office. Really? So John Corprew written down on there. So basically they were going through his calendar, talking to every single person in his Rolodex in his calendar. Yeah. Anybody who not Amy, I can't hurt. So they got an appointment with him at some point.

It's just written on his calendar. So they didn't know, they're like, did they meet or was this just, did he just write it down because there was paper right there? Or is he suspecting? So investigating John Elmer, they figure out that John and Naomi have been having an affair here and they find out that there's been marital problems between Naomi and DB that nobody knew about

except for those two, and that's gotten to the point where DB had begun his own investigation into his wife's activities. Oh shit. Especially her telephone calls. He had phone records pulled and he was investigating. So police learn that John Elmer Corprew's telephone and utilities were in Naomi's name, but not Naomi Cloud, Naomi Lewis. She put it in her maiden name. That's why they didn't find it at first.

She's paying his water bill and shit? She's paying his fucking electric bill, dude. Unbelievable. phone company revealed records revealed that John and Naomi had been in touch very frequently between September of 89 and the day of the murder, January 26, 1980. Corp Rue had made 10 calls to Naomi during that timeframe. She called him 41 times, including 26 calls in January and four times on the day of the murder.

Okay. That's not good. No, that looks bad. That looks bad. Even if you had nothing to do with anything, it just looks bad. Four times. You've been busy all night. Day. What the fuck? That is weird. That's absolutely weird. And they also figured out that as a result of David's death, Naomi receives not only some property that they had together, but also between 90 and $100,000 in insurance money.

Okay, that's a lot. Which is probably a half million dollars nowadays. So now they're like, okay, we have all of this. We have a weird setting and a weird murder that happened, and we have all of these things, but these are all just like parts floating by themselves. Yeah, the pieces everywhere not connected to each other. Exactly. There's a lot of pieces and a lot of dots not connected here.

Someone needs to take a big crayon on that Denny's menu and make a fucking... Start drawing the star. Make the moons over Miami breakfast, you know? So make the Eiffel Tower, please So they're they're gonna put all this case together and they come up with a guy Through a tip and we'll find out about this but they make an arrest actually in the case They find a guy who we've never heard of to this point His name is George Ballard Guthrie II. So, Junior.

Another Junior. George. I mean, Second could skip a generation, but he's still named after somebody. George Ballard Guthrie II. Yeah, the Second. He's born 1951, so he's the youngest of this lot of fuckin' luminaries that we've been discussing here.

Fascinating folks. He's described as a quote, chronic misfit and self-described drug addict who lives in Roanoke Virginia. So that's who we're dealing with here. A piece of shit here. So anyway they hear that they need to talk to Guthrie so they go to Virginia the West Virginia officers and accompanied by Virginia officers as well they search for Guthrie and find him about 9.25 PM one night at a garage where he was doing body work on a car.

So the Virginia officers arrest him because it's Virginia and drove him some distance away to their headquarters in Salem, Virginia. Now here's the thing, rather than taking him to the local Roanoke magistrate for whom they had gotten the fugitive warrant for to get him, the magistrate was on call and they were aware that they would return to present Guthrie, but the West Virginia trooper requested, hey, can we make a detour so I can question him before we go actually take him to the magistrate

to do the proper legal things that we have to do because you have to bring him there and then before you can take him to Virginia that guy has to say okay, he has to wave extradition, it's a whole thing. So instead here Guthrie was read his Miranda rights in the police car and then once again at police headquarters. The trip to the police station took approximately 20 minutes and they arrived at about 9.45 p.m. at the police station. Guthrie was taken into a small office and they said he appeared normal at the time. Now all of his friends and family who'd been around him said he definitely wasn't normal that day. He was visibly intoxicated, couldn't stand up properly,

had red and droopy eyes and was very shaky. Wow. Doing great is what that says. Yeah. Please work on my fenders is what that says. Go ahead and bang that den out for me. That man was just doing body work in that condition? He was doing body work, yeah.

So the Virginia, Virginia. Wavy fender. Yeah, I would say so.'s gonna go. It's perfect Look at it Laser strike Wow the Virginia policeman who was there he left to get supplies to Fingerprint and process got three because apparently they didn't have fingerprinting supplies at the police station So the Virginia the West Virginia officer began questioning him.

He signed a written waiver and confessed by 1040. Wow. Confessed that he was the trigger man in this whole thing. How'd we get to him? We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Okay.

Now, that's what's going on here. He says, yes, it's me. I did it by 1040. That's over with, and he's taken before the magistrate in Roanoke, which they were supposed to do first. Okay. Now, his older brother, Guthrie's older brother, had driven from Roanoke to Salem Police Headquarters

at the same time that Guthrie went. He demanded to see his brothers, but they said that they would not interrupt the interrogation. You're not his attorney, and he's not demanding it. So no. So the brother was unable to speak to him until later on. So he was like, shit. Now that same night, John Elmer is arrested in Virginia as well, but he's taken directly to a magistrate without being questioned. So here is the allegation. They claim here that Naomi got her boyfriend,

John Elmer, to hire this guy, Guthrie, to kill DB. Oh. Okay, and they think it's for 2,500 bucks because that's what Guthrie said he got it for. 2,500, well it's West Virginia which like I said, very low prices now. And 1980, that's a pretty. 1980 in West Virginia, you could buy a house for that there.

I'm not even fucking kidding you. You could probably buy a $2,500 house considering there's a $10,000 house available right now. Yeah. This is fucking 45 years ago. So you could probably get a house there. Now they also arrest Naomi here. They said, yeah, we've got to arrest him here.

So they end up with, they do that, they go to arrest her. They say she received between 90 and $100,000 and she got all the benefits for this. So they indict her, but she never spends the benefits for this. So they indict her but she never spends a night in jail. Okay. Right when they indict her they give her a bail of $50,000 which she immediately puts a property of hers up for. A building she owns, an apartment building she owns in Princeton. And away she goes. So they let her leave.

She doesn't have to stay in jail, which is wild. If you're, this is a, this is a, A man's dead. It's a murder conspiracy. And they're like, well, I mean, 50 grand is fine, right? A man's missing a head. Wow. Go on.

That's fucking wild. So she then moves to Huntington, West, Virginia and Gets a job selling cars at a car dealership Yeah, she's a good salesman by the way from what I've heard salesperson And she moves in with another man now a new boyfriend Bernie Stanley who used to work for her father who she's known for years, and we don't have any idea She might have been having a relationship with this whole time as well. Oh boy, oh boy.

Yeah, Bernie, we can't get him to say shit. So Bernie. Yeah. What about Elmer? John Elmer's in jail, sitting there. He doesn't have bail money. He's in trouble too. Okay.

He's in jail. They arrested John Elmer. Yeah, they took him right to the magistrate. Remember, they didn't take the side track. But this guy, I mean, she went immediately into moving in with this guy in Huntington. So I feel like this has been going on for quite a while, obviously.

He's aware of something. Yeah, and she is, God knows how much other shit she's been getting into. So at the pre-trial stuff for Guthrie, his pre-trial stuff comes up first, a full suppression hearing is heard now. Because he wants his confession suppressed.

It's April 1981. His counsel moves to suppress his inculpatory statement because it was made after a delay in presentment to a magistrate and they also said it wasn't voluntarily given because Guthrie was too intoxicated to knowingly waive his rights. Trial court ruled the confession admissible. Yes. So they said that the delay was not unreasonable or so lengthy that it justified the exclusion of the confession.

It was like two hours from the time they got to the police station to the time that he saw the magistrates. They go, that two hours isn't long enough to make it whatever. So he found that Guthrie had been under the influence of speed and beer, but was not so severely intoxicated that he was without capacity to know what he was doing when he confessed.

They're like, listen, what person roaming around Virginia at night, West Virginia at 930 at night, isn't under the influence of some speed or beer? Yeah, we picked him up from work. He's fine. Yeah, he's obviously shithammered. So then they get John Elmer Corprew in there. Yeah. So Guthrie is now clammed up. Once the confession tossed, he wants to say he's being framed. So they get Corprew and Cor and corporate just absolutely spills his fucking guts Like he has been wanting to go to a therapist for 20 years and finally got to Yeah, let me tell you about my dad

Yeah staring at the ghost of whoever he murdered for the last 20 years every night when he goes to sleep I gotta tell I mean this goes to go away. The sweetheart deal he gets, he did the right fucking thing here. So he said that the husband's death came up in a conversation in late summer 1979. It's about a six month thing that we built up to. He says, quote, we were seeing each other, calling each other on the telephone and going to various motels and staying a while there, having dinner and things like that. And things.

Okay. Just having an affair basically. He said the first time that the murder was mentioned was in a quote motel in Blacksburg. She said that she would like to get somebody to kill her husband. And I said, well, it startled me at first. And I said, you had better forget that. That's a serious thing. Like, listen, we're in motels and you're paving my driveway and everything. But you know, murder, come on.

That's crazy. I got a pretty easy life right now. I'm without effort or money. This is great. That's too serious of a relationship. We're booty calls. That's it. Well no, they said that they were going to get married they talked about. Her and John Elmer. Oh my god. So he said it was not too long after that, a week or 10 days at a motel, I believe it was in Rich Creek, Virginia. She said she needed to find somebody to really get rid of him. This time she really meant it.

She asked me if I would help her, and then he told her he would quote, ask around, which sounds like I'll stall for a while while you still buy me shit and pay my phone bill. And fuck me and hopefully you'll forget about this. Cause that's- Same response you give a friend that's like, I'm moving. Can you help me find somebody to sublet my apartment? Yeah, Yeah, I'll see what's going on. I'll put it on Facebook or something. I don't know

so He also John Elmer said they talked several times on the phone and she asked me each time had I contacted anybody This was she was not giving up. Yeah, like this wasn't going away Contacted anybody this was she was not giving up. Yeah, like this wasn't going away So I told her I had checked around about some pills that could cause him to have a heart attack or something And we met and talked about that This is not the original plan a shotgun murder in the backyard the original plan is maybe I get a hold of some drugs Yeah, yeah that we can you know, whatever so she John Elmer says though Naomi feared what they would find in an autopsy And said what if they find it though? They're gonna blame it on they're blaming on me. That's crazy. So

She said no good pills bad not gonna happen Okay, they're not gonna find a shotgun blast to the head in an autopsy No, no, but a masked man in the dark is a ghost. I guess they thought Yeah, who's bought fucking cyanide in the past. Yeah. And who has access to his food and shit like that. Yeah. So he says I was very much involved with her and she, I guess, she used her body to influence me on that. He says, she used her body. Yeah. Oh, that's fucking hilarious.

She was buying me this and buying me that. She just said that we would go to Hawaii and places like that. Man, the gender roles are real reversed here. It's wild. She also promised to marry him. She promised she would get him pregnant too. I swear. I'll do this the rest of my life.

He said that D.B. Cloud worked occasionally in Roanoke and after he contacted Guthrie in November and discussed a price of $2,500 with a $500 bonus too they said. Maybe a bonus if you get it done here and you know signing bonus you got to have that. Yeah. All murder, good murderers need a signing bonus. Otherwise they'll sign with somebody else. That's what happens. So they considered killing Cloud in Roanoke, but Corprew said that Guthrie didn't like that idea.

So John Elmer Corprew said that on the day of the murder, he and Naomi had several conversations. Quote, she had called and she said she thought tonight would be a good night to do it because they were going to dinner At some nightclub in Bluefield He said they talked about how the murder would be done. It was decided that it would occur outside the Princeton home Which that's the other thing is then they changed their mind at one point and decide to do it inside That's the other thing because then they changed their mind at one point and decide to do it inside He said quote. She said she would leave the keys under the milk box. They still had a milk box Wow, she said probably the best way to do it would be to unscrew the floodlights and wait for them to come home And then he could commit the crime there and for him to go into the house and ransack the house and wait upstairs

for them basically. Go in, ransack, I'll break off from him once we get in the house, you shoot him and take the fuck off. That's how it works. Or you get your boy to shoot him. And that unscrew the lights part is real fucking- Biabolical? Yeah, yeah.

But it's incriminating as fuck because they were out. They were definitely out. The lights were gone and one of them was broken, as we'll talk about. They found one of the floodlights smashed and broken. UFO lands in Suffolk and that's official, said the News of the World. But what really happened across two nights in December 1980 when US servicemen saw mysterious lights in the forest near RAF Woodbridge and claimed to have had a close encounter with an actual craft? in the forest near RAF Woodbridge, and claim to have had a close encounter with an actual craft. Encounters, a new podcast available exclusively on Wondery+, takes a deep dive into one of the

most famous and still unresolved UFO encounters to ever take place in the UK. Featuring shocking testimony from first-hand witnesses, hosts, journalist, podcaster and UFO researcher Andy McGillin, that's me, and producer Elle Scott take us back to the nights in question and examine all of the evidence and conflicting theories about what was encountered in the middle of a snowy Suffolk forest 40 years ago. Are we alone? Encounters is a podcast which is going to find out. Listen to Encounters exclusively in ad-free on Wondry+.

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from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. OK, so Naomi called him again about 7.30 p.m. to tell him they were leaving the house to go to the dinner party. So you know, you got a few hours here. He said that Naomi contacted him before they went to the party, so that was then, and that he said he took Guthrie to Princeton to wait for them to return to their home with, you

know, with a shotgun and everything. He said that he'd been to the house on several occasions and had no problems finding the house. He said, quote, It was getting a little after 11 then. So I let him out at the gate at the back of the house. He took the gun and he went in the yard. I drove off approximately a block and a half, two blocks down to the next corner to the main drag.

He said it was not too long, approximately 20 minutes to 12 or something like that, that I saw Naomi and Dave turn in on College Avenue where they lived. It was not too many minutes that went by that George came back to get in the car and I had the door locked and he could not get in. Finally, I unlocked the door and he got in and we drove off like it was nothing going on It was Saturday night. There was a lot of traffic and we just got back in the traffic and came back to Roanoke He said he never heard the gunshot. There's some details that we'll get into that he left out there. Yeah He said he never heard the gunshot

He then said that they went to Roanoke, they went to a bar and he gave Guthrie forty dollars. Gas money. Forty dollars he gave him. So John Elmer said the next morning a relative of Naomi's called him and told him quote a Prowler shot Dave and killed him and they were in tears and then Naomi got on the phone and she was in tears I asked where David was and she said they had taken him to Charleston for an autopsy and

He quotes Naomi is saying quote you ought to send some flowers and maybe come up He's because he said that they had known DB because DB had loaned him money two or three times And his wife on top of it. You better acknowledge this thing. Fuck. John Elmer said he didn't go to the funeral, but he went to the house and he sent flowers. So he did like the friend thing. He said he had occasional contact with Naomi after the shooting.

He said she told him she waited five minutes before she called the police after the shooting. And said that she even reached down and felt for a pulse and she couldn't find any what the fuck Yeah, dude, that's cold. She sat there with him for five minutes. Yeah Wow, he said then Naomi delivered $3,000 in cash inside two children's hardback books Oh Golden books and they fucking this is ridiculous She hollowed out an Olivia for this that's what she did

Unbelievable this is fucking wild And she said that was about two weeks after he said that was about two weeks later And he said that was for the killing of her husband Yeah, so he spills it now There's some other bumbling that goes on here by the way that we'll talk about that happened Which is hilarious because Guthrie being fucking, a drug addict and a mess, could barely pull this off, as we'll talk about. He's a goddamn disaster.

It's a wonder he didn't shoot himself, it really is. The fact that this came off is like a miracle, it's wild. So John Elmer is offered a plea deal, and he takes it. Really? For saying all that shit. Now the prosecuting attorney during his plea arrangement hearing

calls him quote, a dirt bag in the first degree, which is fucking hilarious. Objectively, that's hilarious. A dirt bag in the first degree. I would've died, if I was in the jury, I would've went, I would've died, if I was in the jury, I would've went pfft, I would've died laughing. I am changing my Instagram bio. Dirtbag in the first fucking degree.

Everybody should, that's great. That's amazing, yeah. That's awesome, first degree dirtbag. They said his meticulously detailed sworn deposition, you know, throws everybody under the bus. Yeah. So they said that he embraced the role of a jilted sap who'd been cynically manipulated all along cuz that's what he says I was just some poor guy and she was using me for years for this

She's my secretary but My secretary my secretary the plea bargain deal reduces John Elmer's accessory to murder charge to voluntary manslaughter, which is nowhere near accessory to murder, by the way, in the line-up of felons. Wow. That's insane. He portrayed himself as a victim who'd been beguiled to act on Naomi's behalf as he's basically the lust made me do this yeah and the judge beguiled so the and the judge actually

was like been there buddy like swear to God this judge you know it's not a female judge because he's like the judge totally buys everything he fucking says like man I get it a fine ass woman make you do crazy things oh boy I'll tell you what I got a story for you I'll wait till after here I'm gonna come and meet you before you take him off to jail to bring him to my chambers we're gonna have a chitchat because we got a lot in common let me just say that right now. I got a story for you, bub. Wow. He said he's only human. That's what he said. That's what John Elmer said. I'm only human. This is what he said. This is, they asked him what he got to say for yourself. He said, quote, she used

her body. I was under, I guess her spell. She just came to me with her body and her promises. I ran this pirate ship aground because of that siren. Oh my god. This is wild. Unbelievable. She used her body. When asked by the prosecution if his regular meetings with Naomi usually resulted in sex, they said that his response conveyed more nostalgia than remorse he sat there he's like oh let me tell you about this one time boy she got some lingerie and she came out of the bathroom all sexy and I never came that much in my life I didn't know it was physically possible it was wild I had to we needed a mop afterwards I had

to go down to the office and talk about it. I could have filled a two-liter bottle. Wow. So he said, yeah, oh, most definitely. He said it was, you know, obviously. He was like thinking, oh, man, taking deep breaths. So he also says that Naomi was the mastermind of the murder plot against her husband, and it was Naomi who wanted him dead and said that the middle man who claimed he'd been, you know,

I'm the middle man. I've been emotionally manipulated. I believe that she would eventually marry me and, you know, I was just doing what she wanted. She said it was her that prompted me to research chemical agents that might induce David Cloud to have a heart attack, which was one of the plot that was abandoned. He said it was Naomi who settled on the ruse of an armed robbery gone wrong and Naomi who

told him she waited five minutes before calling the cops so she could check the pulse. It was also Naomi that suggested that John, who'd known DB well enough to borrow money from him, send flowers and show condolences. It was all her idea. known DB well enough to borrow money from him, send flowers and show condolences. It was all her idea. It was also Naomi that provided him with $3,000 cash payment for Guthrie. And by the way, he didn't even give him the whole $3,000. What?

He fucking pocketed $500. He kept a subcontractor charge good. Yeah. And Naomi thought the whole $3,000 was going to Guthrie and Guthrie always said he was thought he was getting 2500 so That's pretty fucking special Wow Yeah, so um he said all I did was purchase the ammunition get the gun Load it for him give it to him and drive him there

Which is pretty much everything This guy just pulled the trigger. You did everything else. Like everything, even the planning. He said he sent Guthrie out to deactivate the home's outdoor floodlights and locate a set of keys. And listen to this, Corporal is not a moron either, this guy. He said that Guthrie couldn't manage to deactivate one of the floodlights, couldn't get them all off. So, and he said he didn't manage to deactivate one of the floodlights couldn't get them all off So and he said he didn't want to go inside the house because there was dogs barking inside and he was afraid of dogs. So He's like Jesus fucking Christ man

Why did I pick the wrong guy? Carpers gotta be saying I picked this jerk I have to basically pull the trigger for him. Yeah, actually he can't even he can't even unscrew all the floodlights. That's what a dipshit he is. How many murderers does it take to unscrew a light bulb? Yeah, how many Polish murderers does it take to unscrew one light bulb? No, so Guthrie then returned to the vehicle saying I didn't get the I didn't get the the floodlights out and he's like well you needed to that's the point so corporal said take my cane and go smash it. My cane? He's got a cane. So this is a ridiculous comedy of errors right here I mean imagine this this is a silly movie is what this is where you get back I couldn't smash them all you fucking idiot take my cane then. So he goes on he said corporal after he did he goes in

there and he smashes the cane with the smash is the last floodlight with the cane then corporal said well Let's get the fuck out of here now in case somebody heard that shit glass break and everything else and calls the cops So they drove around the neighborhood until it was evident that no cops were coming That's why they kept being seen driving around the neighborhood because they were just like yeah They just drove around for like a half hour just to see what happened. They weren't chasing shit. They were waiting for the cops to arrive for the noise they just made. That's right.

So then they returned to the scene and he said, go on. Now go on, get, do your thing. So wow. It's wild by the way that after this guy, okay, if I have hired a murderer, and it's all on me, I'm responsible for the murder. Okay, I gotta get him ready, I gotta tell him the plan. Naomi doesn't know Guthrie, so I gotta tell him the plan, I gotta get him a gun, I gotta get him shells,

I gotta, all this shit. And this guy can't execute part fucking A of the plan. Unscrew the floodlights. I'm calling this off with this guy. I'm'm gonna never mind. This is crazy. Fuck this shit Give him 500 bucks and send him on his way. This is ridiculous. What are you doing? Yeah, like honestly, but he said nope, let's plow through this here He said that he cruised Princeton on a circuit or circuitous route that would bring him back to the spot where he'd pick him Up to flee the scene. He said he never heard the shot. He said when Guthrie got in the car

Guthrie said is it done and Guthrie said he'll know he'll never drink another drink Okay, that's what he told him. So Two weeks later. He gave the guy 2,500 bucks pocketed 500 for himself He said that neither Guthrie nor Naomi was a knew that he was pocketing the money on his own. So yeah, that's how it goes. That's he he's uh, that's what he has to say here. His sworn statement here. They said that probably the thing that they came up with too is they were like if this is true Naomi was probably genuinely taken aback by the fact that this happened way before

she thought it was going to happen. She didn't think she'd have brain on her. She was shocked. Yeah. She didn't think she thought they'd go in the house. She'd go over here. He'd go over there, get shot and that would be that. But instead she said it was, I guess he said that she must've been surprised because the plan as far as she knew was Separate him and he'd be upstairs waiting for him. So as long as she stayed out of upstairs, she'd be fine Interesting, um, and they said so you planned on marrying Naomi and he said yes, I did So the judge then questions him a bit too And you know, he said your statements indicate that you helped plan,

cooperated, schemed, counseled, aided, abetted, all of this shit. These fucking people. In the offense, do you understand that? And he said, yes, sir, I do. And he said he was dressed, he was even dressed in a suit, which is nice. You wouldn't expect that from these guys.

I wouldn't expect either of these people to have suits on. I expect them to come in like fucking torn up overalls or something like this is ridiculous. No shirt on. The shirt is part of these pants. Well yeah this counts as a shirt. Covers my nipples don't it? As long as these away. That's it. So the judge continued, it is not clear from the indictment whether you were present, but I take it from the wording of the indictment that you were not. And he says that he quote, in the same town, in town, but not at the exact scene, is what he says. So the judge pointed out that according to state law, a person who helps plan, scheme, counsel,

all this shit. The crime is as guilty as if the plans go forward as if he were present. Yeah. There you go. When pro for the facts, which made him guilty, he told the judge I aided her. I provided transportation for him to West Virginia. The defense attorney elaborated on the night of the shooting that he provided the transportation and they said, did you know and understand that George Guthrie was there for the purpose of murdering David McLeod he's like fuck yes I did the pussy was on my mind of course I did I was thinking of other things so the sentencing because he pleads guilty to voluntary manslaughter he is sentenced to

wait this is he got the gun drove him there planned it exe basically did everything you sir may fuck off one to five years in prison And he's He's released after eight months get out of here eight months in prison. He does for murdering, basically, essentially. This is a fucking planned, executed, and did everything but pull the trigger. Eight months. Well, that's why crime's so high around here. They don't punish anybody for it.

That's wild. Eight months? Are you kidding me? Holy shit, that judge really had sympathy. I get that they, that's what I mean. The judge was like, I hear you, buddy. Like I guess they really want to nail her and they really want to nail the trigger man I suppose so they're giving this guy a huge break

Like rather than saying okay rather than first-degree murder the second-degree murder 20 years something like that They go all the way voluntary manslaughter. You'll be out by Christmas. That's crazy Conspiracy you were part of this Christmas that's crazy conspiracy you were part of this a hundred percent how do you not get at least 30% of their of their sentence I mean so then the state makes an agreement with Guthrie as well oh a plea agreement here but the trial court the judge refuses to accept the plea agreement that he makes with the prosecutor so this guy thought he was good and the judge is like, fuck no, he's the shooter. I can't do that.

Hell no. Nope. And the judge has the right to not accept plea agreements. That's part of it. So he's going to trial, Guthrie. And he is going to be presenting evidence of insanity. That's what he's going to present. That's his swing now?

It's insanity and they should have thrown out the confession those are his two big deals here now the Insanity defense this is one of the jurors by the way this is a the vaudev of the juror in the beginning of What the fuck they think about insanity because when insanity is on the table You got to ask a whole bunch of separate set of questions like when the death penalty is going So they said in general do you believe that psychiatrists and psychologists can help people? Okay, and the juror says no Going so they said in general do you believe that psychiatrists and psychologists can help people? Okay, and the juror says no oh

Alrighty Do you know any psychiatrists or psychologists? No I was gonna say it probably said yeah my ex-wife But no they said you say you don't in general think they can help people is that based on prior experience or just a feeling And he said it's just general feelings I'm just ignorant. That's all I said I'm just an ignorant shitkicker. That's all that's what he might as well as said I Get in clings from shit. I see on TV and then make judgments based not on reality in fact, you know how most do You never heard the term Psychologists. Yeah, that's why.

If you can say it with a sarcastic tone, I don't believe it. I ain't believing it. I heard it said sarcastic one too many times. So he said, do you think people who work in the mental health profession, such as psychiatrists and psychologists, might be weird or seem to be weird? He said the answer is, like I said, I don't know any of them, but from what I've read, that's a stretch, and from what I see on television, there you go, it looks to me like they have got as much problems as the people they talk to and it is two bothered people and

it is two bothered people getting together and talking over problems. So you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. No, you don't understand. Psychology is when you go talk to somebody with your same problems and y'all can misery. Yeah, just talk about it. No. Idiot.

He saw a movie where there was a psychiatrist and that's what happened. And he said, well, that's what that is. And then moving on, they said, is someone who is emotionally ill considered sick? And then he said, yes then he said yes right okay they said can they help the way they are the answer is well I believe they could if they really had someone in the family someone close to them to get them into a routine I believe in work myself and I think if you work hard and concentrate and keep your mind off things that

bother you and do something else and see if that would help Next right everybody Hey everybody out there. This is a message from James and Jimmy you got some mental issues some problems You know you need help don't seek help just work harder That'll help you one make your bed every morning Breakfast what's this fucking routine you're talking about? He means if, basically if you work so hard that you don't, you're too tired to think about shit

and that you're so depressed. Yeah, if you don't have time to have problems, you ain't got problems. You ain't got no problems. Wow, okay. This guy's great, that's who I want on my jury. How about you? I mean, they better just send this fucker home, right?

He's really open to different ideas and you know open to a lot here They said what's your opinion of someone claiming to be disabled on psychological or psychiatric grounds? I guess first of all, I ought to ask you. Do you think someone can be disabled for psychiatric or psychological reasons? He said not really. Oh Okay, you've never met anyone Paranoid schizophrenia or anything apparently they said is it possible to experience psychological pain, and he said I suppose so How fucking perfect is it in this person's life apparently everything's fine with this guy? He just saw a movie once and psychiatrists are assholes

They said we thank you after the jury left this juror, left the court's chambers, Guthrie's counsel moved to strike her because she indicated she had a prejudice against psychiatrists and that they couldn't, she couldn't accept any of their opinions. And the court said, nope, she's good. Oh my God. But she's on the jury.

Oh my God, that person can't. Yep, they're on the jury. In my god. That person can't. Yep, they're on the jury. In an insanity plea, you can't have that woman. Can't have a woman who doesn't believe that insanity exists? Right. At all? And that there are people that can help treat that. Yeah, it's maybe one thing if she said, yeah, I think a lot of people use that as an excuse, criminally or something. That's fine. I'm with you. We can talk about that, but to say there's nobody who's not fine is fucking insane. So for his insanity evidence here,

he presents lay and expert testimony. So just friends of his that say, yeah, he's a fucking cuckoo. And then also experts here who have degrees that say it too. They say not only does he have organic brain damage anyway, smashed his head or something, but a long history of drug and alcohol abuse, blackouts from substance abuse and had drug abuse mental disorders. They found he is in with the within the normal range of intelligence, which is shocking, honestly.

His experts were subjected to cross-examination, and they tried to equivocate the shit to a jury, basically, here. The state called one psychiatrist who answered two questions about Guthrie's mental state with simple yes and no answers. He did not explain why or how he reached his conclusions that Guthrie had been capable of understanding and waiving his rights And that Guthrie was not suffering from a defect or disease that made him incapable of understanding

What he was doing or conforming his behavior to the law. They didn't ask him to explain or expand on it. They just said Yes, sir. Yeah questions. Yeah, is he capable of understanding or waiving his rights? Yes Is he suffering from a disease that makes him incapable of understanding? No, that was it. Thank you. No further questions. So then thanks for being here, doc. Thanks a lot, doc. And then there's a woman just with her arms crossed shaking her head in the jury. Liar. Fucking liar. What are your problems? Wow. He just needs to work harder. Yeah. Now, John Elmer's got to earn his eight months in jail here by testifying, and he testifies during the three-day trial that he helped plot the killing in hopes of marrying Naomi, exactly what we said.

Guthrie claimed that he rejected John Elmer's attempt to hire him as a hitman and instead was framed. He said, this guy came to me. His lawyer said, yeah, John Elmer came to him and he refused. He said, I'm not doing that. But then once they did it without him, they said, well, let's just say it was him since we talked about it. Now. Yeah, we got that here. He goes on. They ask, they ask John Elmer about his relationship with Naomi and you know, he said it started before the marriage and continued until just a few months

after her husband's death He said quote. I guess I was just I was under I guess you'd call it her spell She just came on to me with her body and he loved saying that he said that it's both trials Then he said with her body and her promises then he said I was like a spider in a web. She was the spider and I was in the web and I couldn't get out. I'm sorry this happened. I don't know if it means anything to anybody but I'm sorry. I'm just a little butterfly.

I'm just a little tiny little aphid just stuck up in here. She wraps her her beautiful smooth silk around me, my dick gets hard and I can't help anything that happens. I'm just a little silk worm trying to turn the silk web. Little old silk worm here. Now the verdict comes in and they find Guthrie guilty of first degree murder murder. Yeah, okay Sentencing here we go. This is crazy you sir may fuck off Life in prison, but there's a big but yeah with the eligibility of for parole Do you know how long until he's eligible for parole? Oh my god 50 years 10 years. Oh That's it.

Wow. First degree murder, it could be out in 10. I am in West Virginia, I'm surprised they didn't say, you sir may fuck off to a woodchipper. Well fucking throw you down a coal mine, throw you down an abandoned mine shaft or something. We're gonna throw you into a woodchipper that shoots your viscera into an abandoned mine shaft. And then we're gonna have one of our shit local bands play underneath the the rain of a viscera and while it's happening we're all gonna dance to it's raining men. That's what's gonna happen.

While the juror that doesn't like psychotherapy pisses the remainder of you off the wall. Jesus Christ. So yeah that is ten years. Yeah. Wow. So now the two guys are taken care of. We got him and we got this one. Now the point of that is to now put her up for trial. Right. She's getting into so much trouble. Okay so remember though she's being held up. She was out on that $50,000 bond She put property up for and moved to Huntington to sell cars at a Chevy dealership Like let me show you the new

Let me show you let me show you the new citation. It's wonderful. I'm trying to think of shit cars were out Citation for a car. No, is it the worst time we've ever had for cars. Even Corvette sucked. Come see the Beretta. Yeah, the Beretta was later I think. I'm going citation man. I don't know what would have been out in 1980 for Chevy's cars. I think it's a citation. There would have been three of them. Monte Carlo I think probably was out. There have been a bunch of them. She was slinging them though. So during this here, so she is being called, her case is being called here. It's 9.43 a.m. and the state calls the state,

or they call the state of West Virginia against Mary Naomi Cloud. The state said the state is ready, but then they approach the bench saying the defendant's not here. No? She's not here right now. Yeah. She's busy showing the worst Camaro ever.

She's busy showing a fucking 130 horsepower fucking Z28 right now. That's exactly what she's busy doing. So they said that the defendant hasn't appeared yet. The judge says the trial date, I guess the defense is asking for a continuance. And the judge says the trial date was set six weeks ago. And he said, let's do the usual procedure when a defendant fails to report for trial. And the clerk called Naomi's name three times,

saying, Mary Naomi Cloud, report to court. When she did not appear, the bailiff is ordered to search the courthouse for her. Wow. And he was out of the courtroom for several minutes before he returned and announced, quote, she is not in the courthouse. We knew that.

We knew that, thank you. Bench warrant, yeah? So yeah, well, that's the thing that's going on. At that point, the judge orders a bond, considers the bond forfeited, and it tells the state to issue a bench warrant for arrest of her. Immediately, yeah. Yeah, this is May of 1982, and he said a warrant

will be issued, and yeah. There were unconfirmed rumors circulating around the courtroom that Naomi had written her parents a note or a letter. However, the contents of that was never revealed to the media or it's not in the court records either, but there was a big kerfuffle going on around there saying that.

Does that mean they now own the property she put up? Well, let's talk about it. No, that would be, yeah, she forfeited the property, but she's a little slicker than that, as we'll find out. A spokesman for the Huntington Police Department's Detectives Bureau told the newspaper that he was contacted last week by her friend, Bernie Stanley, the guy she's with,

Stanley's employer concerning a missing car but he said no warrant had been obtained by the company and the officer indicated that Stanley had been an employee there for about six years now she's gone they go to her house they can't find her no one knows where the fuck she is she's she disappeared so did Bernie he's gone too Oh Bernie They're ghosts like the fuck out. So oh boy Yeah, they put wanted posters up with a $5,000 reward. I mean, she's like Billy the Kid now. Yeah, so That's fucking wild apparently you did it. She wrapped actual fugitive. Wait till you hear her nickname. It's great All the newspapers use it. It's fantastic

She basically rounded up all her liquid assets and took the fuck off Actual fugitive. Wait till you hear her nickname. It's great. All the newspapers use it. It's fantastic She basically rounded up all her liquid assets and took the fuck off Wow with a younger call in the newspaper who what's described as a younger handsome male companion Bernie D Stanley So the prosecution believed that she probably took off well in advance of her court date, but they couldn't do anything about it because The court will do nothing until she's officially a no-show They're not gonna say oh well She can't arrest her for we think she might not show up if you let her out on bail weeks

Yeah, I'd start that's possibly yeah They said she'd not never spent a minute in jail yet for this by the way They said she'd never spent a minute in jail yet for this, by the way. Oh my gosh, she got processed and sent home. Yep. She didn't even forfeit the property bond she had to put up to secure her bail, and we'll find out why here. Wow. They said, yeah, the prosecutor said that this was anticipated, but they couldn't take

any official action until the judge opened the court at the assigned time, and it was officially recorded that she hadn't shown up. So apparently what she did is she sold the building she put up for bail before she left town. She's got the money for it already. She's got the money and they don't have the property because it belongs to someone else now. So they're just fucked, holding their dicks in their hand, going, maybe we should have made it higher. Maybe we should have put a lien on that property before. Maybe, something like that. So the judge orders the forfeit of the $50,000 bond issues,

the bench warrant does all that. They said there's no indication of where she might have gone from any of the prosecution or defense witnesses at the courthouse, but all persons involved in the case appeared to assume that she probably fled the state and possibly the country. Oh my god. She's got some money it's 1980-82 at this point it's not like you know you can go anywhere you want. So they said the prosecuting attorney told the newspaper immediately following the brief session

of court that he and his staff will pursue this case quote to the limit and make every effort possible to have cloud caught and returned to Fayette County to stand trial for the murder. We will spend every tax dollar we have. Every tax dollar. We will put aside the fancy old oldie new railroad station that'll make y'all happy. We'll put it aside for 25 years Spent all this money Murdering bad woman bad. So all over the country now. There is articles everywhere She's on the front page all over the place really whole country say known as the quote the fugitive temptress

Which is absolutely the name of this episode The Fugitive Temptress, which is absolutely the name of this episode. Unbelievable. The Fugitive Temptress, which is fucking hilarious. They describe her as 5'1.5", 105 pounds, and they put her social security number in the newspaper. What? 428828259. It's in the newspaper.

Anybody can find it. I'll say it too. Fuck it. You can't do that nowadays, can you? No. Jesus Christ, can you? No! Jesus Christ, are you kidding me? A thousand people would steal her identity in 12 seconds. I mean, they pretty much called her Murder Horse, why not?

Pretty much, yeah, Temptress Fugitive. Hey, murder skank, come over here a minute. We call her the Slut of Death. Nah, that's no good. What about Fugitive Temptress? Yeah, that's better, right? Slut of death is crazy to put on a headlight. Can't put that that's offensive Jesus Wow, so there's no warrants pending for her boyfriend somehow I thought I would think aiding and abetting a fugitive something like that. Nope

Yeah, and it seems like if you catch him, you'll probably catch her, right? That's the thing. He's described as a white male, six two, tall, weighing about 240 pounds with dark hair, about 40 years old, they said. Probably dumb. Probably dumb as fuck. Wet dick, that's for sure.

Bright pink, raw dick. Raw dick, that we know about. So at the same time she sold that building, she also sold her downtown cosmetics business to her sister Sylvia as well. Wow. No one, yeah, the state didn't know she was doing this, but she was liquidating and getting as much cash as she could fucking gather. In July 18, 1981, she sold the building she put

up for her bond to her brother and his wife, aided by her lawyer, John Frazier, who since that happened had been appointed a circuit judge. Now, oh my Frazier was accused in a lawsuit filed by the family of cloud of helping cloud sell the bill helping Naomi sell the building when both knew it was being used for bond Frazier dropped out of the cloud case after being appointed a judge and declined to discuss his former client I don't want to talk about the shady shit I did before now I'm upstanding family members and other Princeton residents who knew Naomi also refused to discuss the case.

They said that Dave's will, DB's will is still in probate. And they said a lot will depend on the outcome of the trial because if she's found not guilty, she's going to get a whole shitload more than she would have if she isn't. Wow. She has apparently has a really high powered lawyer after that. Haddad is his last name nationally known lawyer from Louisville he told the newspaper that he was surprised at Naomi's decision to attempt to evade trial quote because she's been very

strong throughout the time we've been working on all of this she's full of shit too they said are you gonna keep working with her now since she took off and made you look like kind of an asshole You know when you beg on your face, man Yeah, when you'd say you beg for bail for a client you're kind of vouching for him You know what I mean? You say I trust them and he said oh, yes, I won't bail out on her now Why do they do that? I won't bail out on her. She got bailed out. Why do they always? Have people telling themselves people everyone does it so why do we do it? It's gotta be psychological, right?

Oh, it has to be. That's in your mind already, so you're just gonna say it? Yeah, like I said, it's like when we go on something that we, we're on live TV on the news in Chicago that time, and it's six a.m. and neither of us have slept, and they're like, don't curse,

and we're like, oh shit. Oh, god damn it, that's all I'm gonna do now. I am gonna go, how you doing? James fucking Petragallo here, good to meet you. Like, oh shit, I can't say that. Jimmy Westman, fuck it's early. Fuck it's early, right? You fuckers look good this morning, how's it going? I just can't help it at that point.

What fucking time did you guys wake up? This is ridiculous. Jesus Christ balls, this is early. I'd suck a cock to go back to sleep. Fuck, right, wouldn't you? Come on. Back in the studio, huh? So Stephen Cloud, who is DB's son,

said that he suspected his stepmother wouldn't stick around for her trial, but he remains hopeful that she'll be recaptured. I would think eventually, yeah. He said, I certainly hope so, but I don't know. I think she'll end up paying in the end. And the prosecutor gives a, this is a really, this'll make you feel better if you're a family member

and you really want her caught. He says that he's pretty confident that Naomi will be found, quote, one of these days. She's gotta run out of money somehow. Dude, look harder. What are you talking about one of these days? They said the task of tracking down Naomi is just hard to do. They can't find her.

They said where? And there would be newspapers all over the place that would just have, where's Naomi articles every once in a while? Where is she? What's going on here? And that will also, her, DB Cloud's kids clouds kids basically they call the cops in the prosecutor's office every week. Really?

Where's Naomi? You find her yet? What's going on? You got any leads? I'd like every fucking week, which is what you kind of seems like you have to do this apparently. I can't believe it. So they said they failed to find her despite pursuing clues in many states and countries.

They're pursuing clues everywhere. So the authorities say in an effort to defraud the state, she sold the property that she claimed was her bond. The prosecutor announced that his office investigation had revealed that an apartment house in Princeton was the property used for the bond. And in September of 1980, she sold that to her brother, sold her business to her sister, and he said that he would take legal action to have the property turned back over to the state to meet the bond requirements.

In the civil action, they said the deed between Mary Naomi Cloud and E. Howard Hill and Betty Hill be set aside on the grounds the property was subjected to the bond and that the couple had condition reason to believe that the property was subject to bond. It's hard though, because they just go, we didn't know. It's all through already. Like, I don't know how you. That's crazy. It's a done deal.

They said that they're asking that the property be forfeited to the state of West Virginia and sold at public auction, along with that shitty house from the real estate report. So 1984 Guthrie has an appeal. She's still gone by the way two years later. 84 he maintains his confession should have been suppressed because he was not promptly presented to a magistrate and I was hammered hammered but instead was taken to police headquarters and interrogated he was arrested at 925 p.m. and taken before a magistrate at 1145 so 220 that's how long that is his thesis is that the officers had probable cause to arrest the warrant founded on the

indictment so that the pre-presentment interrogation was unnecessary and the only reason he was not presented was to get him to confess. That's what he's saying in these filings. Now Virginia's arrest and presentment statute and also is similar to West Virginia's, provide that the persons arrested under warrant shall be taken before a magistrate, quote, without unnecessary delay. Which sounds like take you right there, unless the car breaks down. Yeah.

Okay. Without, yeah. Unnecessary delay doesn't mean we feel like interrogating him. Necessary to me means the car broke down, there's a blizzard outside, aliens are invading, someone's getting their dicks sucked by Naomi, something like that. There's a parade, whatever. Whatever it is.

Guthrie could have easily been presented to a magistrate, this is his filing, advised of his rights, informed of the charges, and his state of intoxication could have been assessed at that point. Now the state says that we are not to apply our prompt presentment statute extraterritorially and Virginia applying her own law would admit this confession. Okay, so now you're talking about which state's law are we gonna go with?

Jurisdiction, yeah, what the fuck? They said there is authority for the government's position but they said, the court says they disagree, this is not a question of extraterritorial application of our prompt presentment rule We must decide decide whether a confession elicited under the facts in this case is admissible in our criminal courts Guthrie's not being tried in Virginia for his crime. He's being tried here. So he also says the insanity thing He said he offered an evidence. He was insane He argues that the state failed to rebut the evidence sufficiently because all they got

was a yes and a no from their psychologist and the jury said good enough for me. So they said that there exists in the trial of an accused a presumption of sanity. However, should the accused offer evidence that he was insane, the presumption of sanity disappears and the burden is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt That the defendant was saying at the time of the offense a lot of states. That's the opposite like Florida It's your burden to show you're crazy. Not theirs to show you're saying that's a totally different thing, which is a big difference actually Yeah, that's a lot of burden. Yeah, it's a lot So when the issue that's why no one ever gets off on. When the issue of sanity has been fully developed at trial and it conclusively appears that

the defendant was not criminally responsible at the time the crime was committed, the trial judge may in instance, and instances must direct the verdict in favor of the defendant. Meaning before it even goes to the, they must throw that jury, the jury verdict out and do a directed, a directed verdict because they didn't take the facts into consideration. So they said that, um, in this case, the conflicting evidence induced at trial forecloses the possibility that the evidence was conclusive of insanity, even if the appellate alleges that his psychiatric experts were superior to the state psychiatric expert. Defendant's position is that he produced

sufficient evidence of insanity to repeal the original presumption of sanity and that the state's submission of two curt unexplained answers by its expert was equal to no rebuttal at all and therefore as a matter of law, he must be found insane. They also question whether the trial court erred in refusing to strike that juror

who indicated that she didn't think that people were mental illness was real. That wacky bitch. That yeah, that was fucking wild. Now the decision here, the West Virginia police they said worked hard to find work together and the Virginia police worked together to arrest Guthrie. Virginia's only involvement was for fugitive warrant predicated on a crime committed in West Virginia. At all times during the arrest, questioning, processing and presentment, the Virginia officers

were accompanied by our West Virginia authorities. Finally, the evidence is clear that Guthrie's delay was prompted by our officers and untimely interrogation was conducted by them. Okay, now intoxication. Was Guthrie unable to give a voluntary confession? The trial court found that he had ingested speed and beer, but that he was capable of waiving his rights.

The troopers all testified he appeared normal, while his family and friends said the opposite. The trial judge heard the testimony and was in the best position to evaluate the credibility of the witnesses. So they that's basically They said we're hands are off of this one that the insanity the judge had the you know are the that thing the The intoxication the judge would know best so that's not on us The juror they said we cannot conclude That this juror was unable to render a verdict solely on the evidence and the court's charge. Therefore, the trial court did not err by refusing to strike her for cause, which is

crazy. Then they say the confession, West Virginia officers may not avoid our state's rules about prompt presentment of arrestees and admissibility of confessions when they cross our borders to apprehend a fugitive criminal suspect the chant Tangential involvement of Virginia police in the arrest process and Guthrie's case did not obviate the requirement that our officers follow our laws We conclude Guthrie's confession was inadmissible Reversed and remanded. Oh boy new trial new trial. Absolutely So November 1984 they knew Oh boy, new trial? New trial, absolutely. So November 1984 they do a new

trial here. And in the opening statements the prosecutor says the first degree murder case cries out for justice. It was a contract killing here in this county for no reason other than gain by Mrs. Cloud, gain by corporate and gain by Guthrie. It was a senseless, brutal killing. Defense says that his client had no part in the killing and that his, his confession is not admissible here by the way. So they, yeah, they got to prove that he was there. Which could love they all. They have, Corprews, you know, they have John Elmer, but that's uncorroborated. He said, he said, he said. He said he said.

Yeah. Usually from a co-defendant or a co-criminal, you have to have corroboration for their shit where it's not. So they said, you know, it's this guy who talked about getting rid of David Cloud in various ways and all this. Not my guy. Right. They said, Corporal is the one that he should be sitting right here.

So the defense attorney says that he intended,, contends that his client had no part in the killing and that Corprew is the culprit. He said Naomi Cloud and Corprew had been lovers who schemed to get rid of David Cloud, you know, including, ways including poison before the shooting. So they said that Guthrie, whose first degree murder trial ended today, goes pretty quick, he claims that he rejected the offer again and that he's being framed. Same thing as the first time. In closing arguments, they said that the prosecutor said that he plea bargain with Corp Rue because he's the sole link in the events involving the killing.

He said, I wish I was up here in front of you trying him too. Believe me. Yeah. Scumbag. But, gotta do what you gotta do. So the defense lawyer said there are two guilty people, Naomi and Corprew. And George Guthrie is not the third. No, he's the second. Second. Yeah. Vertic comes in. He is found guilty of first degree murder again again with mercy though again okay which leads him to be sentenced to use her again may fuck off life in prison with eligibility of parole in 10 years that's with mercy that's a lot of mercy that's the most mercy I've ever heard 10 years you shot a guy point blank in the face with a shotgun on purpose for monetary gain. That is like the most clear cut first degree murder you're going to prison forever. Shit, I've ever heard in my life.

Cold-blooded too. Cold-blooded as fuck. That's cold, dude. Dark, yeah. To sit there, to break a light. He sat there and waited with plenty of opportunity to go, what am I doing? The fuck is wrong with me? Nevermind, even when they came in,

he could have just said nevermind and stayed behind a bush and not alerted them to his presence and taken off. There's so many ways to get out of this. You have bodywork to do. Well, you know what, sometimes you gotta fix that citation. It's off on blocks. 1985, okay, Naomi's still missing. Uh-oh. Sometimes you gotta fix that citation. It's up on blocks. 1985.

Okay, Naomi's still missing. Three years now it's been since she took off. A $20,000 reward is being offered for information leading to her arrest. This reward is offered by Cloud's stepchildren. One of them here talks about it and says that the reward is, they just hope that she's found. They'll give any amount of money they can to get her back here to be fucking put away, which they shouldn't have to put the reward up, I don't think.

Again, maybe if you had one less fucking fancy replica building of an old railroad station, you could put up a goddamn fucking reward for murder fugitives who have fled your state Who you go? Hope we find her someday, but we like the main street of yesteryear and we'd love to just replicate Oh man makes people so much happier. So that's 85 86 gone 87. Oh my god all sorts of rewards pot and every once in a while. There's articles around. Hey, where's this Naomi lady? Yeah, just what about the murdering trollop? Oh man, so April 23rd

1988 Kennewick, Washington state State the other side of the country other side of the country near the Oregon border. I believe as a matter of fact here Authorities get a tip in West Virginia that she is living in Kennewick Washington. So a former state trooper travels to Washington with state police sergeant Charles Blizzard just like the Blizzard that's fucking awesome for the arrest I will arrest you like a Blizzard you won't even see it. They receive a tip on where cloud

could be found. The information likely they said if they find her that's going to they should be good for this reward that's been put up. So the investigator said he basically went to Kennewick and flashed pictures from wanted posters to people all around the town. And they said, Oh yeah, we know that lady, that's her. We know her, so they staked her house out. They arrived about 7.30 p.m. and no one was home, so they said that Bernie Stanley arrived at about 8 p.m. by himself.

He walks in the house, so they wait. They're like, fuck, maybe they broke up. Maybe, we don't know what happened. Then about 11, 20 p.m., here comes Naomi. There she is, yep. Struttin' on up the driveway. She goes in the house, they wait. For some reason, they don't arrest her outside.

They wait till she goes in the house, and then I guess to coordinate a raid or whatever, but they don't even raid. They just knock on the front door. And Bernie is talking to the cops. While Bernie's talking to the cops, she tries to run out the front door and Bernie is talking to the cops while Bernie's talking to the cops She tries to run out the back door and take off And rocked right into police yeah better than better than a guy with a shotgun so true. Yeah, but they gave her a better chance She gave her husband running like somebody after

Chris Hanson says have a seat Yeah, where do you think you're going lady? There's cops out there running like somebody after Chris Hansen says, have a seat. Yeah. Where do you think you're going, lady? There's cops out there. I picture like Lorraine Bracco and Goodfellas like cutting up bags of coke and dumping them in the toilet, like shit like that, freaking out. So the police, the guy who arrested her said, she looked totally shocked. She was very upset.

She didn't say a word to me after we arrested her. Just gave me the dirty look she used to give me before. The dirty, she's giving dirty looks. This shit's beneath me looks. Yeah, you can't fuck your way out of this one, lady. I don't give a shit about your tits right now. So they said that Stanley and Cloud apparently have been living in this home since July of the previous year of 87.

So they've been here for a while. Cloud was working and had a Washington's driver's license under the name Carol Donna Johnson. By the way, you know what everyone called her? What? Donna. She went by her middle name still, even on her driver's license. See the little things people give away? She didn't need to do that.

No, she could have been Donna Carol. That's what I mean. She made her fucking name up. It doesn't matter. They said that the cop said it was obvious she tried to disguise her appearance in a license picture, but when we arrested her, she looked the same. Anybody would have known her. Same hair, same makeup. The only thing is she gained a little weight in the hips. That is hilarious. She still puts makeup on from eight fucking years ago and she's a little fat we'll just say right now. A little outside the realm of what you know. Got a little doughy in the hind end you know what I'm saying. Wow. But she looked just like she did last time I saw her. During the six years on her own, where she been? What's she been doing? It's shocking. Okay. She was alleged to have had a number of aliases on credit cards and other documents belonging to her. I don't know how she does all this, but back then it was probably a lot easier.

Yeah. You just write a name in. You could also like fake documents. Yes. Your license was paper for Christ's sake. No shit. Yeah. They said that she went by She went by Bonnie Naomi bright Mary Naomi bright Bonnie Naomi Hancock Mary Naomi Hill Carol Donna Johnson Mary Naomi Lewis, which is her fucking maiden name, which is pretty stupid Mary Hill Stanley Which is her boyfriend's last name and? Carol Donna Marie Marie is a last name. Yeah Okay in one of her fucking lives one of her fucking identities She worked as a sales rep for a water softening firm and her sales in the company ranked third nationally

Oh my god, she was living her life, dude. They weren't hot So I mean they weren't hiding like, you know, God looking out the window. She's fucking selling things to people. Fixing your hard water for Christ's sake. This is the third best person of it in the whole nation. So during her extradition it became evident she'd become quite popular in her new area because when they go to extradite her and get her on the plane Yeah, 20 to 30 people show up to see her off the whole town shows up because they're so sad Enjoy the flight. Holy shit. Yeah, they said that she was out They act like she was a celebrity like and it wasn't like who it's to gawk at her. They had signs

showing support for her They had signs declaring their love and support for Donna, the cop said. Donna doesn't even exist, you guys. She doesn't even fucking exist. He said they acted like she was a movie star or something. They said there was 11 different people carrying signs and expressing their fucking support. They waved and hugged goodbye to her. And one said, we believe, or the sign said said we believe in you we love you Donna

said one of the signs another said another just said be positive which is a really okay being extradited for murder there's not a lot of positive going on be positive here even with everything here they said that she seemed relaxed as she waited with her boyfriend Bernie who's gonna board the plane with her and go back even though he's not under arrest at all. Cloud was dressed in a yellow sweater and slacks she was accompanied by two law officers from West Virginia but was not handcuffed. They didn't even handcuff her. What is going on?

They let her hang out at the airport, talk to her friends, hug people, dude. She's in custody. For murder. For fucking murder. And they let her get on the plane with her boyfriend, they put her in first class too? What the fuck is happening? Make sure to get her the headphones

so the movie isn't a waste. It's a private jet, James, this is crazy. No, it's a United Express flight. Oh really? A United Express flight to Seattle, where they fucking then get a flight. Put her on a big flight, yeah. Yeah, to probably some other city to where they fucking then get a flight. Yeah.

So probably some other city to where they have to drive 12 hours to fucking West Virginia. So non handcuffed. Wow. Um, one of her friends, Cindy Fenwick of, of Idaho who identified herself as a friend of Donna, Naomi, whoever the fuck said quote. She's innocent This is total Wow, this is totally out of character for her this lady drove two hours to say goodbye at the airport This lady said she's that good of a friend to me. You don't even know her. She's not even

Wow, she's a very nice person. She was special to everyone she has been in contact with. And this lady said, these people at the airport have only known her a couple months. That's how much she touches people. We've heard how she touches people. Apparently, she's the best at it. Yeah, she's a good toucher. Wow, so this lady said she met Naomi through business dealings in Denver, Colorado, but she wouldn't say what type of business she was in.

She said that she lived with Cloud and Stanley in Denver for a short time. Oh boy. She said, and they took others in who are having hard times too. You think lay low, lay low, which is how they get caught because there was a tip saying she lived here. She wasn't making friends with everybody, no one would have spent any tips in. So they said that, wow, that's fucking wild.

Yeah, they said some people here declined to comment. One man at the airport went so far as to hide an insignia on his cap with tape and paper. So no, I guess it's probably where he worked or something. She, Stanley declined to talk to reporters as well as well, and he's not charged, but he has had a seat booked on the same flight with her. They boarded the plane together with one officer in front and one behind. Before she got on the plane, she turned away with her friends like,

yep. Standing on the airport's outside observation deck with their signs. Once the plane flew off, an unidentified boy said, she's gone. There she goes into the clouds. Oh man. She's a figment of our imagination. There she goes. Just a damn legend in this town. It's the hero that caught Meadows said, Bernie rode on the plane all the way out here on the same flight

He made every change we did and got off the plane when we did in Roanoke He met some of Naomi's family when we went home with them Wow, can they do that still just like put a fugitive on your plane with you and I tell the whole fucking crew I don't know I beats the shit out of me. I assume so. You would hope they're handcuffed if they're murderers, but you know. It seems like if they handcuff you to the fucking chair. Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to handcuff you to the toilet back here. Stanley's not arrested. The only West Virginia charges, auto theft that were placed against him when, remember when they disappeared, were dropped years ago for lack of anything So yeah They said they couldn't arrest Stanley for harboring a fugitive because the arrest was not in West Virginia Where if it was in West Virginia, then he's harboring if it's somewhere else. That's not harboring That's wild. They said Meadows said Stanley made no attempt to evade authorities during the arrest

He just talked to her the cop said this is kind of a hard trip for her. Yeah. It's time to go. He said him and his fellow officer were trying to make her as comfortable as possible. Why? Why? Make her uncomfortable.

No. Can you get her something to drink? Absolutely not. You don't get to recline your seat this whole trip. No, you sit up straight. We get headphones and watch the movie, you fucking watch it in silence, the whole thing. No peanuts, nothing. We're locking your chair.

Yeah. Bullshit. So, back in West Virginia here, they get back there and they get off the plane about 11 pm on a Saturday night to be met by a shitload of news media and cameras and several members of Naomi's family who hadn't seen her in six years they said here. The cop said there was a lot of tears and it was very emotional. It was really emotional scene when they first saw her. I don't think they had seen her since she left.

He said that he anticipated news media coverage about this, but he said he didn't expect the mob of cameramen and reporters who greeted them. He said, we went straight through the terminal to the car, but they followed us and some of the members of the family got upset. There was a problem when one of her family members grabbed at a camera. This is just turning into a shit show. He said they allowed cloud a few minutes with her elderly mother while at the airport. She is taken directly to a magistrate here to plead not guilty here at her hearing. Stanley, like we said, not arrested, doing nothing. He was using the name of Robert D. Johnson.

Yeah, I mean, if you're not doing anything illegal, why are you using a different name? That's the thing. yeah. She was formally charged as a fugitive during a court hearing. They set her bail bond at $100,000 this time and she doesn't have that now. They said they asked that, a prosecution asked could she be held without bond until there's a formal hearing on evidence, and they said that she fucking fled last time. They said, we found her clear across the country using an assumed name with identification on her showing she used several aliases,

and we have a judgment on her for 50,000 already. So, you know, can we maybe keep her here? Now the arrest came as a result of a telephone call to the cop, he said. He declined to release the the cop, he said. He declined to release the name, but he said that someone I had talked to knew that I knew and trusted. He said the first call by the informant was made to the prosecuting attorney's office

on Monday, April 18th when he was in Roanoke. He said there had been no indication that any information on the cloud case was forthcoming and that he was surprised because it's been six years but I forgot about it by now the informant asked the receptionist to speak with Meadows about the cloud case and when told he was out of town the guy said that he would another call would be made later the informant called back at 915 a.m. and they told Meadows that he wanted the information it could be revealed about where they were living. That's what the guy said.

This is what it's about. And they said the informant was reluctant at first, Meadows said, and indicated the information would be revealed in a week. I'll tell you in a week, is what the person said. So the cop said, we talked for about 45 minutes or an hour. I didn't want to take a chance of waiting a week and I finally got the information. He said in the informant, it was somebody I know and it was the first time we had ever gotten

a street address in a town. That was the reason why I was convinced it was a good tip, because they had an actual address. So he and Blizzard were unable to make the trip until Thursday because they had to get airline tickets and the services of federal marshals to accompany them for The arrest a lot of arranging to do Yeah, that's a lot and they said yeah the informant will probably get the reward so they indicated

Their defense indicates that they want the case resolved as promptly as possible. Let's get it going Now you want to get it done. Where were you six years ago when we wanted to get this done? They said they asked for a date to be set soon because he will need a minimum of 60 days to locate witnesses in the eight year old case. They said a number of key witnesses are from out of state necessitating sending out of state subpoenas. We had a difficult time finding one witness for the last trial and he's the owner of the shotgun used. Yeah. They said that the past six years we've spent our time looking for her and have not kept up with the witnesses.

It will take the state a minimum of 30 days to crank everything back up again. This is collecting dust on a shelf. We put this away. Guthrie's already, he's almost on fucking parole already. The other guy, Corpuz, lived three lives since then. Oh, Jesus. He's already he's almost on fucking parole already. The other guy's corpus lived three lives since then Fucking a man so the detective's reaction here is this is Meadows said quote Well, she finally spent a night in jail. I waited a long time for this Yeah, he said you don't know the nights. I've laid awake trying to find out where she was

It's been a long time and it's a relief He said we're relieved that we, and one of the kids of DB's kids said, we are relieved they finally found her. We always knew they would because we knew they never gave up on the case. He said that because he kept badgering them. Not badgering, doing the right thing.

He showed up with coffee and donuts and was like, let's get to work, always. Let's fucking do it, let's crank it up, guys. What are we doing, where are we going today? And they're like, huh, what's that now? Good morning. Now, one of her attorneys tells the court that a plea deal would be in her best interest

because she fears a first degree murder conviction based solely on Corp Rue's testimony. So the state agrees to a plea deal with her. Yeah? For second degree murder. Oh. Okay. They made the plea to the judge.

They said in a low voice she made the plea, barely audible to spectators, including about ten of her family members and friends and the victims, three children and brother. Her lawyer then asked for probation. She's been on the lam. From a second degree murder. There's no probation for that. What are you talking about? She liquidated all assets and ran and what? From a murder charge.

This is crazy. So the plea bargaining was arranged by her lawyers. She still had the same lawyer. He didn't back out on her. Christ, he was still six years later. Frank Haddad is his name, Louisville. And yeah, she never takes the witness stand to have to tell her part. They do not make her aliquot shit. She just has to plead guilty. Sentencing comes around. You ma'am may fuck off five to 18 years. What is going on in West Virginia? What the fuck?

She was gone for six. She could get out in five? That's crazy. That's fucking crazy. This is why your crime is so high. There's no penalty for fucking up. I assume they've changed the sentencing laws. They have to, right?

They have to. Her attorneys asked that she be considered for probation after a background report's given to the court. And they were like, I don't fucking think so. DB's daughter said, quote, it's my birthday and this is one of the best birthday presents I've ever had, that's Sharon Cloud. She said that we've waited a long time,

it's been a long eight years. Holy shit, they said it was great to finally hear her say guilty. There is son, DB's son, who came all the way from Texas at a moment's notice, said it's been a long time and naturally we would have preferred it and it would have been nice to see her get first degree, but it was good to see her finally admit her guilt.

She can compose a plea any way she wants to. We all know she's guilty. So yeah, they said we're glad it is where it is and has finally come. I don't know whether it's right or not, but who cares? And Sharon, the daughter said the worst of it is it will never be over. Right? No. So 1989 assets left from this are being sought. Now they're trying to get assets. Authorities tried to seize the building she put up and that was gone. They said the $90,000 in insurance money also that's fucking God knows where. So they said they plan to investigate to determine how much money she has. They said we're going

to find out if she has other assets and see if she has money in somebody else's name. We have a judgment against her for $50,000 plus $50 in costs and 10% interest every year since May 1982. But as far as I know, she doesn't have any assets to collect. So there's that. They said she expects the victim's children to pursue the money that she received after her husband's death, but she said, I don't think that she has much money now.

Third best water softener salesman in the country has no money? Got fucking who gots. Wow. Which is surprising, right? Yeah. There's no money in water softeners. Who knew? Yeah, if you're thinking about going into

the water softener sales game. Evidently there's no money in it. You maybe should not. You could be the third best and still be broke. Still be fucking poor as shit apparently. You'd be a pauper. So yeah, this is um, trying to find this.. She I believe she I don't know if this is her or not. I found an obituary for For someone who fits her name But I don't know if it's her or not though. It's hard to tell so I'm not positive about that Yeah, that's a that's a tough one. So who knows well, but she's definitely everyone's out of prison No one served too long a time for this

Is the age right? Not quite yes, but it's I don't know if it's her though. It's one of those things I can't be positive of it to say yes, she's dead or yes. She's not or here's her Instagram. I don't know Because the one has an Instagram, so I'm not sure Yeah now like we've done before in West Virginia because it's a wild style kind of place here, wanted to tell that first story and then tell a shorter story at the end here, that is, because that was, you know, West Virginia, but that was, I mean, yeah, there was some fuckery and panhandlery going on here, but it was also like rich people and all this

type of thing. So I feel like some people might go, oh man, I didn't get like a real West Virginia groundhog for breakfast pan all this type of thing. So I feel like some people might go, oh man, I didn't get like a real West Virginia groundhog for breakfast panhandle kind of thing here. You need more? So I got another case for you here that we'll run through real quick here from 1956. Yeah?

Mingo County, 1956. Mingo County, West Virginia. Yeah, known as bloody mingo County Not good here. This is Delorme. It's in Delorme, West Virginia DL our DEL ORME Delorme or Delorme one of the two Okay, this is in the middle of the afternoon by the way, we'll cut to this. 1956, October 19th, 1956, 4.30 in the afternoon, between 4 and 4.30, at what is called a beer

tavern known as Don's Place. Sounds great. OK. Now, it's operated by Noah Ferrell, who is the stepfather of the wife of the defendant. All right. Stepfather of his father-in-law. All right. So one story building in which the tavern is operated locally about 25 feet from the edge of a road. It's West Virginia route number 49 and fronts on that highway. The open space between the

highway and the building extends along and beyond the front of the building for several feet in each direction At the front entrance is a large single door Which when open swings inside the building and the bottom of the door is several inches above the level of the area between the building and the highway Okay, so it sits up. It's on a step base. It's elevated so you know floods don't come in when it rains Okay, so it sits up. It's on a step base. It's elevated so you know floods don't come in when it rains So we got it's a big highway big parking lot type space in the beginning here Outside the building and directly in front of the door is one concrete step of normal height

Above the ground at the top of the step And the top above the ground and the top of the step is a few inches below the level of the door of the building and the bottom of the door. That's really okay. There's a step. It's a step going into a door that has another small step. That's all it is. Like most houses do, a little step up. Inside the building is a large room

which are several booths on one side, a service counter and a bar on the opposite side of the booths. You know, a bar. Yeah, a very small dive shit bar. Yeah, in the middle of fucking Mingo County, West Virginia. It's... It stinks in here. Wow, so the early afternoon, like we said,

between four and 4.30 on this date in 1956, Clyde Fields, enter Clyde Fields. He is age 40 to 45 he's set at. Somewhere around there. We don't know, we don't keep good records around these parts. And it's 1956 so he was born in you know 1910 or 1915. So they said he's about 5'10 about 155 pounds, not a big guy. He limped noticeably because he has an artificial leg, which will do that to you here. Not great artificial legs in the mid-50s in West Virginia. You can't imagine.

Dude, a friend of mine has one now. They're not that great now. No, but they're shitload better than this. Can't imagine. This was just wood strapped to your body. That's all that shit was. Yeah, wood with leather straps. Phew, fucking brutal, man. Yeah, that's hard for dragging it around with you difficult

So now this guy Clyde fields is hanging out with Luther Daniels. Mm-hmm. Who's a 19 year old man So 45 and 19 illegal shouldn't be hanging out at 4 o'clock 18 It's 18 back then. It didn't switch to 21 until the 80s. Yeah, and even then, he's got a tolerance. It's West Virginia. He had a tolerance long before then. Yeah, and I'm thinking West Virginia back then

is probably like going to Mexico where they're like, yeah, ID, that's cute, yeah. It's adorable. Sure, that's fun. So yeah, he's 19. They sat together, visiting, drinking beer and moonshine whiskey At two other taverns in the neighborhood of Don's place before they came to Don's place Between three and four o'clock for the purpose of doing what drinking more beer

What day of the week is this this? I don't know what day of the week it is But is the middle of the fucking afternoon is the third bark we've been to at 4 p.m. Wow, they've been drinking for a while. Yeah 1940 no jobs between them. Okay They had no money. Yeah, which is where you go to bars to drink. Oh my god, um This is crazy. Um, and so The one the the the guy who ends up the stepson of the owner here, um, talks about, um, I got lost. Okay. Yeah. Stepson of the owner here of Don's

place, a Noah feral stepson here. He decides he's going to step in. He's a haze or what the fuck is his haze? I gotta find his last name here It's confusing because it's from an old document. So I'm trying to like piece it together here So anyway this guy They had no money and the guy and the stepson who helps his stepdad operate the tavern wouldn't give them beer on credit No, I haven't starting up don't start in a tab Oh and waiting for you to come back to pay it. No, absolutely not. Yeah, Luther Daniels asked for it They said no then Clyde Fields asked for it. He said my letting you have beer either neither of you not happening

they said both of them were intoxicated and Trouble occurs between Daniels who's the 19 year old Luther Daniels a 19 year old can't hold his moonshine shocking Wow Crazy, right? So they're intoxicated and Daniels start some trouble with a customer named Artemis mounts Artemis Artemis mounts. Oh boy. Yeah, mounts what? So during the altercation between them, Fields, the 19 year, or no,

yeah, Fields is Clyde Fields, the other guy. Yeah, 45 year old. He steps up during all this and invites anyone here who wants to fight me, step the fuck up and fight me right now. He gives an open invitation to the whole bar to fight me step the fuck up and fight me right now He gives an open invitation to the whole bar to fight him taking all comers right now How drunk are you when you'll go I'll fight any fucking son of a bitch in this fucking bar right now That's a lot of me. Yeah. Yeah liquid courage and

Then people are armed in these like now you can't be armed in there That's a felony in the first place Either way, even if they're not armed, it's the middle of fucking West Virginia somewhere. Someone's gonna go. I'll take you up on that. Sure I have a drink yet. Let's go. Let's do it. I just got I just got off work Fuck YouTube and up to Says came out of a coal mine for Christ's sake. Oh look your ass. I'm pissed off and thirsty Let's go anyone who wants to engage in a fight with him to do so so That's fucking amazing. So they tell him you both have to leave the fucking building. Yeah, all right So fields Clyde the older guy

He says sure leaves the room but remained outside in the open space in front of the entrance Yeah, Daniels refuses to leave and tells the tells the owner and his stepson that if he left You're gonna if you want me to leave you're gonna have to put me out of the fucking building to do it pal Throw me out. You're gonna have to throw me out. That's how this is gonna work here So a fight ensues sure between the stepson and Daniel's yeah, so we're a little younger He's ready, you know more in his age range here During which the stepson of the owner hits Daniel's three or four times with a wooden nightstick You say you want to get put out?

I'll fucking put you out. Brought a weapon. Yeah. One of the blows striking his head and ear. Daniels was knocked to the floor and while on the floor, he and the stepson here struggled to get a nightstick. Yeah. To fight over the nightstick.

So the stepson's on top of Daniels and while both of them are on the floor, the stepson bashes Daniels in the head with a 32 caliber revolver which he drew from his pocket. After being struck with the revolver, Daniels says, alright I've had enough. Literally. I'll leave. He is quoted as saying, I've had enough. Booze or beating, which one? Both ways. Both, I've had enough of everything.

So the fight between them ended and Daniels either rose to his feet or was helped up to the floor by the stepson here and walked out without assistance and that was that. So he opens the door to the front entrance where the stepson pushed him through the doorways and I get the fuck out of here now When he's pushed out the Daniels bashes into fields who was standing in front of the building there near the entrance and both of them Fell down. Oh shit. This is so drunk that imagine that you shove one drunk into another drunk and they both fall down.

He hit a drunk with another drunk drunk and croquet. Now we're playing. This is hilarious. Yeah. Drunk and lawn sports. In the corner pocket. I got, I'm going to use the, uh, use the, the 19 year old cue ball. We'll put the 40 year old in the corner pocket there. 19 into the 45 both on the ground. Both on the ground. Boom. Ah look at me.

I called it. Holy shit. So they both fell down. Daniels gets up and leaves the scene. But while walking away He hears a gunshot And he turns around and he saw fields and he saw him put his hand to his stomach and fall to the ground Oh Fields did the 40 something year old now after fields was knocked down Daniels was pushed against him

He I guess he had a rose or either stood up on the ground in the front of the door or approached the door and attempted To enter the building but before he could get inside the building the stepson who stood inside the rear door fired Inside the building near the door fired one shot from the revolver and that's what struck fields in the region of his chest It passed entirely through his body through and through Severing a main artery. Uh-oh. And he dies pretty goddamn quick, he bleeds out there. Sure. So, yeah, the testimony from internal hemorrhages,

the testimony of witnesses produced by the state was to the effect that Fields didn't even participate in the fight between Daniels and the staff. He left voluntarily and was just waiting for his friend outside So they said they're charged him with murder. They're charging the the guy with murdering him. Yeah. Yeah He fucking shot him while he was outside not doing anything. Yeah Yeah, they said that fields made no threats and committed no hostile act against the defendant All he did was ask for beer. They said no you guys got to leave and he left

Yeah, yeah, so you didn't do anything. They said that while the defendant webbing he did was ask for beer. They said, no, you guys got to leave. And he left. Yeah. So he didn't do anything. They said that while the defendant, I mean, this was after a fight, obviously. Yeah, 10. But then he left. Emotions are high, for sure. Emotions are high. He did offer to fight anybody in the place.

Yeah. But then he left. It was over. Right. The threat was over. This is why you can't have weapons with guns. Or with booze. With booze.

This is the point. They said that he made no hostile act against the bar owner or anything so that while The defendant here was the stepson was near the door with the revolver in his hand Field swore at him and told the stepson that he was not scared of you or nothing You got and go ahead and shoot son that he was not scared of you or nothing you got and go ahead and shoot and he said all right pow and shot him you can't do that you can't do that you can't go well he asked for it that's not okay he said to he said it's all right

so each of the five witnesses produced in behalf of the state who were on or near the tavern and observed fields testified that he did not see a knife in his possession before or when the shooting occurred. After Fields was shot he did not go on to he didn't go to his assistance but told someone nearby to take care of Fields then went from the door toward the rear of the room. The stepson. The stepson shot him and then was like someone helped him. Yeah, yeah by Six witnesses including the bar owner and her and the stepson and everybody testified on his behalf The there's him there's no affairal who is the stepfather?

Jesse feral I guess that's the mother and of the defendant and one other witness testified to the effect that on other occasions before the shooting occurred There had been trouble between fields and the defendant and on each account each occasion fields made threats to kill him And that fields has made several similar threats outside the presence of the defendant which were communicated to him Before he shot fields that day. They said he would tell other people I'm gonna kill that son of a bitch. So, other than the testimony of some of the witnesses that Fields was attempting to attack the defendant and to enter the building for that purpose with a knife or some instrument,

when the defendant shot him, there's no evidence that Fields was armed with any weapon ever attempted to execute any threat made by him to injure or kill the defendant He's just a drunk who was standing outside talking shit mouth and off. Yeah, they had to say he started coming toward the door with a knife That's why I shot him. That's just what they had to say You know what I mean? If you could just shoot mouthy drunks, holy fuck. Holy Jesus Christ in this country Oh, I was a bouncer for a long time. I would have a body count of 300 fucking people on me like not even night every fucking night oh this lippy bitch and this fucking big

jacked up douchebag and this all these forget about this isn't dress code I'm fine I'm coming I'm fine that's what you guys. What do you mean? No athletic shorts. Let me talk to the manager. Let me talk to him. I can't wear a hat in here. Bullshit. Oh, that. Let me talk to the manager. Who do you think sent me here to throw you out? Stupid. He made the rules. I'm enforcing right now.

Yeah, I don't fucking care. He said, get that guy out of here. We go, all right, time to go. We're fucking out. Your pants say Adidas on them, man. No, you can't be in here. That was a sports party. You can wear anything you want.

Still though. This isn't a fucking crunch fitness, sir. It's mainly just drunk guys groping girls you have to throw them out for it. What I said she had pretty hair you said I'd like to taste your cunt get out. Well you had both hands on her ass one on each cheek. Oh my god oh shit so everybody also on the defense side testifies to the effect that fields was in the room in the fight between Daniels and the stepson began or while it was in progress and that he threw a beer bottle at the defendant Which either grazed or struck him still you can't shoot him 20 minutes later for that

Yeah, you can't beer bottle anymore if he's throwing shitloads of a mat Yeah, maybe you're allowed to shoot him then but if he had like a Huge supply if he's got an armful of them and just chucking maybe then Not later So they said that fields while standing in the door during the fight called Daniels to give the defendant a good one So yeah, give it to him good you son of a bitch Which again isn't a shooting worthy. And also yelled to the defendant, I will kill you when this is over.

Uh-oh. That is, that when the defendant was standing near the door holding the revolver, Fields, with a knife or some other instrument in his hand, was standing with one foot on top of the step in front of the door. See what they described all that to you here? Yeah.

In front of the door, and the other foot. He's on his way in. and the other foot in the doorway. They said that the defendant told Fields not to come in the place again and that he would shoot him if he did. That Fields told the defendant that the defendant would not shoot him and that he didn't have enough guts to shoot him. You ain't got the guts. Yeah, what are you thinking? And that he called him a quote a vile name. Okay. And that the defendant then shot Fields as he was attempting to enter the doorway.

When the defendant was asked why he shot Fields, he replied, I was scared. He was aimed to kill me. Okay. And when asked why he did not run from Fields, he answered quote quote, I had no place to run except run and run in where my family was. Because I got a gun. I'm not. Yeah, I'm shit. Running from shit. And I'm not going to take him. He's going to go and stab my mom now, I guess he's trying to say. So he also testified that when Fields attempted to enter the doorway before he fired the shot, that he had one hand on the door frame and struck at the def- He said that the- that he- uh, Fields had one hand on the door frame and that Fields

struck at me with a knife, which he had in his other hand. Nobody else saw this knife except for him and his father. Right. None of the other people in the bar. Um, so Noah Farrell, the father, testified to the effect that while Fields was at the door, he had some kind of instrument in his hand, but the witness could not say it was a knife. Eddie Dodson, who was in his automobile at a filling station near the tavern where he went with his wife and two children for the purpose of getting gas, produced in behalf

of the defendant. He testified that when he came to the filling station, he saw two men, one near the filling station, the other standing in the front entrance of the tavern. He said he heard cursing and loud talk and that one of the men was trying to get in the door and had one hand on one side of the door and that he was gouging at something in there with something. That's very descriptive. Gouging at something in there with something.

With something. Wow. That the witness then heard the shot but did not see who fired it and that the man at the door was shot he jumped backward turned around and sank to the ground and That the witness then left the station in his automobile and didn't immediately make any report of the events to which he seen He watched a guy be shot to death and was like back in the car kids. Let's go and just took off Yeah, that's awesome. Wow just took off. That's awesome. Wow. The defendant and some of the witnesses who testified on behalf of the state as well as some of the witnesses who testified on behalf of the defense

made and gave signed written statements concerning the matter in which the shooting occurred and what took place in the tavern before the shooting to a member of the Department of Public Safety who investigated the shooting shortly after it occurred. Don't say homicide detectives or anything. And these statements in some particulars differ from the testimony given at trial by each witness who signed a signed statement. Can't do that. During the argument of the case to the jury, attorneys representing the state commented

upon the failure of the defendant to produce the knife at trial in support of their contention that fields one shot didn't have a knife. They're like, where's the fucking knife then? If you shot him, he went down. I wouldn't, yeah. Where it go? There should be a knife right there. Yeah.

They said upon substantially the foregoing evidence, the jury found the defendant guilty of murder in the second degree. Okay. guilty of murder in the second degree. And they rejected the contention that he was shot in self-defense. And yeah, he's gonna get 20 years for that. So he got 20 years. You, sir, may fuck off. He got 20 years in prison for a bar fight shooting. I just love a bar fight where someone goes,

I'll find anybody in this fucking place. Something about that really cracks me up and really makes me happy. So he- It's fascinating that that is what West Virginia did to this man and this lady hired a man to murder. Yes. And got five to 18.

Sent him to the tavern. And this is like a legitimate, I don't know, sorta legitimate kind of, it's not a conspiracy murder friar, which is, Jesus. So on appeal here, they allege that after he was convicted of murder in the second degree, he learned that the knife possessed by Fields at the time of the shooting had been discovered in the possession of Julius Estep

of Roseanne, Virginia, and that Estep and Condi Stanley of Mohawk, West Virginia were eyewitnesses and knew that the knife possessed by Fields was removed from the place on the ground where it had fallen after Fields was shot. That he didn't know Estep or Stanley and that they were present at the scene of the shooting until after the trial had ended and that he could not have discovered or learned of these new facts concerning the removal of the knife and the presence of these two men before or during the trial. So basically new evidence is what he's saying here.

So the statements in the affidavits of Julius Estepp and Condi Stanley dated February 8, 1957 are to the effect that on the day of the murder they were residents of Virginia and that S step was then employed by Knox Creek coal company and when they made their affidavit Stanley was hired by the Herbert coal company they said about 430 in the afternoon while traveling through West Virginia to their home in Virginia they stopped at Delorme on the side of West Virginia route 49 opposite a tavern which they intended to visit to get beer. At that time they noticed some trouble at the tavern that they saw a man standing just outside the front door of the tavern and then another man saw him lunge out

the door fall against the first man knock him to the ground. The man who had lunged out the door walked rapidly away from the front of the tavern toward the town of Delorme and that the man who had been knocked down to his feet pulled a knife from a pocket in his pants. He then raved and cursed waving the knife in his right hand, moved toward the door of the tavern and at the time another man appeared in the door of the tavern holding a pistol in his right hand and told the man with the knife not to come back in the tavern. That the man with the knife advanced to the steps of the tavern, grasped the door with his left hand, many, everybody seems to get that part, and had one foot on the door sill and thrust forward with the knife, and that the man who held

the gun backed away. That at the time there was a shot and the man with the knife staggered backwards from the doorstep to the road for a short distance, placed his left hand near his chest and stomach, slumped to the ground, and that as he fell, the knife in his right hand slipped from his fingers and dropped to the ground. After the man fell to the ground, another man, who Estepp knew as Fonzo Blankenship, F-O-N-Z-O, F-O-N-S-O, Fonzo. Okay, Blankenship ran from the door of the tavern to the man on the ground and

leaned over him and that the man on the ground asked for water. And the people who ran, people are witnesses here who ran across the road from the automobile to the place where the wounded man lay on the ground near the edge of the highway. They thought he was intoxicated and not seriously or mortally wounded. They thought he was farting around. Estep saw the knife on the ground about a foot and a half to two feet to the right of the man and almost opposite his waist. The knife was open and the blade was exposed. Estep picked up the knife closed it's a fuck are you stupid? Touched it. He picked it up closed it and put it in his own pocket

Nice knife you got there Wow, he said at the time many people came in the front of the tavern and other people in the tavern came outside They said they did not know the man who had been shot or the man who shot him. They just stole knives They said when people congregated in the front of the tavern at the affiance became Apprehensive that there will be further shooting and fighting and for that reason they hurried back to the automobile and continued out of there But on the way they looked at the knife and talked about the shooting Hey, I just stole a major piece of evidence from a murder trial a major piece of evidence from a murder trial. Look at this, isn't this nice?

Wow. I picked it up at a murder scene. And that Estep took the knife to his home, showed it to his wife, and put it in a jar on top of the refrigerator in his dining room. Yeah. And yeah, he said the Afians were not in the neighborhood of DeLorme after that day

and did not know that the man who had been shot had died or that the defendant had been tried and convicted of murder until they were informed of those facts by somebody else in February of 1957. That's when they did these affidavits saying that. Yeah, here and the judge though in this, I mean the early appeals court, pretty good piece of found evidence, some idiot saying I stole the thing.

They say we don't believe that We don't know no evidence. He was even there or had a knife Affirmed keep on keeping on Wow and they send him back. So Wow Justice in that one. But yeah, first one is a little sketchy We heard about a knife heard tell and we don't see it. So, can't, I guess that's it. Can't see it right now. Yeah, that's it.

We need proof. Didn't see it the first time, and I don't know, this fella here saying he's got it. That's on a jar in his kitchen, that ain't gonna cut it. So there you go everybody, that's West Virginia. Just wanted to squeeze in a little crazy day at the bar at the end there, cause that is just some wild. Virginia's an odd-y-ass place, man.

West Virginia, I mean, it's every time. It's different. It's different, man. The rules don't apply to them. No, it is just different, dude. It's a whole, it's like this weird little pocket, like we've, like a little, like, like D-something zone.

You're right. The desaturation zone zone where they're like listen We need coal from here. Yeah, y'all do whatever you want to each other or whatever the fuck's going on Just as long as the coal gets on the rail cars. We're all right. That's how it used to be there. It's crazy I don't know what's going on. They're still recovering from that basically so There you go. That is West Virginia Hope you liked that show. If you did, you can tell the world about it

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we're gonna talk about the Kobe Bryant Colorado incident here. Yeah. I don't know what else to call it because we'll decide what we think about it We have depositions and we have the court case and we're gonna decide Based on what everybody says what we think and who the hell knows because that kind of got pushed under the Under the rug there then for small-town murder. It is time again for Internet salad

Which is where we're gonna go around just whatever's online, whatever the stories are the day, we're gonna talk about them, we're gonna fuck around on the internet and just just find stories and it's a comedy show. We're just gonna, it's to loosen everybody up between, anytime, anytime that we see that it's just political stuff going on, and in either direction, none of that shit matters, just constant political stuff, whether you're happy with what's happening or shit pissed off about something either way it's just a lot of stress and it's a lot so we're gonna we're gonna tell you what's out there what's going on without have you having to see 50 political stories because there will be no politics in

this whatsoever this will be just shit that doesn't matter. Yes, exactly. The first 20 minutes we're on the fucking microphones, this is what we do. This is what we're bullshitting about before we hit the record button. This is so you can find it and hang out with us and be just like before an episode. So I would suggest listening to that, then listening to a regular episode. It's just like you're here. Why not? So that's patreon.com slash crime and sports. You also get a shout out, which we'll get to the shout outs in a second, but I do want to say head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Tickets for live shows are available. And I'll tell you what, Pittsburgh, February 7th, you are the first show.

Please buy the tickets because all the other shows are selling so much better than you honestly Columbus is sold out the next night. It's been sold out for a week in November Portland is 99% sold out Seattle's close Washington Philly those are Getting sold out running out the door We just announced Madison like three days ago. It is gone. about. Almost done, yeah. It's getting sold out. Very few left.

Pittsburgh has more than a few left. Get your goddamn tickets, Pittsburgh. Get in there and come see us. Because we love it there, and we like the crowds in Pittsburgh. That's why we go there. When our agents go, let's go here, we go Pittsburgh. And they go, really? And we go, yes, we like it there.

They go, all right, if you like it. And then they book us. So don't make jerks out of us is what we're saying. You're making us look dumb. So get in there, shutupandgivememurder.com is where you get all that shit and more. And also follow on social media at Small Town Murder on Instagram, Small Town Pod on Facebook. That said, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the people

who would never ever ever have a huge murder conspiracy against us and then Disappear for six years and not even face the music Jimmy hit me with that list right goddamn now This was executive producer Gary Howard Tyler Holmes Matthew Britt Vanessa Thompson second place in the fantasy league Wow cottage Classic Docs, I don't I'm not sure what that is. I imagine if you google it, you'll find out Jake Adranya, probably it's a GNA. I don't know a dranya a dragnet. It's a dranya, right? Yeah, probably yeah gangsters moving silent. It's like lasagna like lasagna jeez Meadows other producers this week Peyton Meadows Beth other producers this week. Peyton Meadows, Beth Bowie, Happy Hour in Midland, Texas. Back home, I think.

Janice Hill, Elizabeth Cracknell, Stacy Clement, Brea, Brea Weeks, D Money, that a kid. Ellen Torque, Torque, T-O-R-K-E, that's Torque, right? Maybe it's Torquey, who knows? Ryan Marlink, Kerry Keller, Demonte, Marley, Jamie Gates, Tyler would know last name, Todd Labister, Joe Patterson, Nicole G., Chris H., Stephanie Robertson, Biscuits in the Bathroom, Tori Merrill,

David, well just stay in there because that's the safest place. David Demas, Streets Rider, Michael D., Maria Sherman, Morgan Prine, Rvz, Chad Roberts, Amy Bates, Maureen McLaughlin, June Morris, Coopy, would know the last name, Dennis Verhoeven, Nathan Lippert, Matthew would know the last name, Rick Matthews, Jay would know the last name, Moosh McKenzie, LT, the letters L and T, probably not that one. Marian Hawk, Rebecca Crutchfield, Douglas McClurkin, Lily Fortenbaugh, Leanne Hill, Susan Fletcher-Alexis, we'll know her last

name, Gabrielle Godoy, Nick James, Nick James, not and, Amy Oliver, Merr, Burns, god damn it, Nicole Williams, Josephine Lancaster, Len so Len to tassin II to tasking it's that's a long one right there is a G GNY who the fuck knows these silent remains are killing us people Miranda Presnel Aaron Tara Trey Trey horn Harry Trotter probably not sky Davis Skye Davis, Benjamin Patanode, Patanade. Rebecca Ramey, Terry Stanley, Betty Warren, Leslie Dixon, Linda Morris, Jacqueline D., Amanda Walkup, Denise Carter, Ella Koepke,

Angela Robinson, Karen with no last name, Natalie Lewis, Oscar Walters, A.L., the letters A and L, the whole state of Alabama, James. Or just a guy named Al. Possibly, maybe it's AI, I don't know. Alan Iverson's here for us, good. That's cool, thanks, Alan. Alexandra Shea, JC, JC Chavez, Parker Brown.

Getting all the groups behind us today. Aaron Walker, bone-eating snot flower, I don't know. That's one of the bone thugs, guys. The bone thug is behind us today. Aaron Walker, bone eating snot flower. I don't know. That's one of the bone thugs guys. The bone thugs is behind us too. See, look at that. We're doing great. Yeah. Fleshing, busy, and bone eating snot flower.

Yeah, that's the guy. He's one of the deep boys. Yeah, that's why you don't know his name, because he doesn't have a lot of parts, but when they're in there, you notice him. You know what I mean? He gets a lot of ideas. He's the guy. All right, Forest Bear, probably not.

There's no way somebody named their kid Forest when their last name is Bear, right? I really hope so. That'd be amazing. Brooks Crandall, Megan with no last name, D Lowe, Dan W, Joe Smart, Coy Cresta, BBT. Yeah, right, I don't know what that means. Patrick Rogers, Alyssa Lyebilled, Just Monika. She doesn't. Patrick Rogers, Alyssa, Lye Bild.

Just Monica, she doesn't have a nickname, not Mo, not Mon, not Monie, it's just Monica. No last name either. Forrest Wonderly James, I don't know if you, name your kid Forrest if your last name's Wonderly. Madeline Dixon, Britt would know last name, Eliza would know last name, Sydney James, Stephanie Hooligan,

I think that is, that's not her last name. I think Apple corrected that. It's a Hooligan. Kayla Vinson. Doug would know last name. Katie Lee. Chris would know last name. Thomas Cross. Jessica Anderson. Justin Shoemaker. Kyle C. Sky Deceit.

Callie Slaughter. James Kidd. Philip Anderson. Mary V. Jen Mack, Shelby LeBurvay, LeBeveray, Darryl with no last name, Trish, it might be LeBov, LeBerve, LeBarv, Trish with no last name, April Horn, Mary Kathleen, Vittoria, Marchese, Tonya Santos, Jason with no last name, Kaitlyn Batties, Battles, what is that, Batgees, I think it's Battles, Davisa Santos, Jason with no last name, Kaitlyn Batties, Battles, what is that? Bat-gees, I think it's Battles. Davis, W, Jason Docnois, Kara M, Andre Gross, Kevin with no last name, Sean LaMontagna,

LaMontagne, Scott, Scott Michalski, what? Michalski, I don't know, Michalski. Thomas Dunn, Tom Scott, Rebelle, Rebel, Rebel Marie, Leah Barber, Dominic Anaya, Erin Stewart, yep, Crystal Goodridge, Athenia, awesome, Mary Jivaden, Jivadayan, Trisha Hall, Jennifer Brock, nope, that's just Bach, Sarah, what is that, Kershchik, Kershchik?

No fucking way, Jared Grimm Bill Geeteman Ryan Flickinger Flickinger Daniel Davidson Chally would know last name Ron key would know last name Larry Denman Jane Hamlin Jenny Leanne Tracy Baldwin Matt Turner Jamie cuttin cuttin Cox, David and Melinda Brianna, Freeman, Nichelle Butthead, Fletcher, Chris Reagan, Sophia Weeks, Sophie Weeks, Stephanie Leopold, Krista with no last name, Leslie Harper, Stephanie Osterlund, Christie Stevens, Heidi Shingleton, Tiivan Yoni, fuck if I know, Emily, Emily, Amal, I'm a male riffle rifle riffle Jordan

Grant gamble Julie Myers Liz Chandler Deandra do heart Sherry Weston amber would know last name Beth would know last name Cody We'll chai labrita labrita ro ha lubra Wow Amanda Kay Darrell Abbott and all of our patrons you guys are the fucking best Thank you so much everybody from the bottom of our hearts We cannot thank you enough for all that you do for us. Just we just really really appreciate you Thanks for everything and especially your money on patreon that just You keep the show at a place where we always can do what we want to do Yeah, because make it viable because that's we don't yeah home nobody. That's the, we're beholden to you guys.

So that's what's great about this show and what we love about the show and we hope that's what you love about it too. So keep hanging out with us. You want to follow us on social media, shutupandgivemeurder.com, drop down menu, take anywhere you want to go in the small town murder, your stupid opinions, crime and sports world. That said, until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. That said, until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus

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