Small Town Murder - #568 - Preacher's Daughter & The Soul Stealer - Middlebury, Indiana

Episode Date: February 8, 2025

This week, in Middlebury, Indiana, a mother does not approve of her teen daughter's choice in boyfriends, causing tension & fighting in the home. It also leads to the mother's disappearance, but luckily there's some evidence that leads to a suspect, whoo spills the whole plan. It's a terrifyingly cold blooded plot, that ends in murder, but definitely didn't have to. Plus, one of the killers says he "just wanted to kill" in a letter to the judge!!Along the way, we find out that a band might be hard to hear over a tractor pull, that teen love is never worth throwing your entire future in the garbage, and that if someone really wants to kill, it's not very easy to stop them!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In the depths of an Atlanta forest, a clash between activists and authorities ends in tragedy. I'm Matthew Scherr, and on my new podcast, We Came to the Forest, we expose the hidden truths behind a shootout that left one activist dead and countless lives forever changed. Binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest ad-free on Wondery Plus. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo choo.

Oh yay indeed Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo, I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely wild edition of Small Town Murder Express. As you people know this is 10 pounds of murder in a 2 pound bag and we have a lot to jam in today. It's a crazy story with a real weird, kind of like a weird, like almost one of the characters is like a West Memphis 3 character almost. We'll talk all about it. But before we get to that, definitely head

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So, I mean, it's crazy. Seattle, Philly, DC at the end of the year, they're selling fast. If you want to go to these shows, get your tickets right now, make some plans and do that. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, if you've listened to our show and then you've listened to all of Small Town Murder, you listen to Crime in Sports, you listen to your stupid opinions as you should be doing, then there's still some more that you haven't heard and that is Patreon my goodness patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material and we are

talking immediately upon subscription anybody five dollars a month or above you get hundreds of episodes that you have never heard before immediately when you subscribe and then you get new ones every other week one crime in sports one small town murder and how much of that do they get all All of it, damn it. Every damn drop of it. This week is no exception. This week, for crime and sports, we're gonna get into something dirty here.

We're gonna talk about the Kobe Bryant rape fiasco from 2003, and then for small town murder, it is internet salad time again, where we're gonna give you a peek behind the curtain what we do before a show starts, which is basically look on the internet, see what's going on, and make fun of it, because that's what we do.

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Jimmy will mess your name all up while he wants to get it correct that said I think it's time everybody we got to Dive right in here. It's time to sit back. What do you say everybody? Yeah deep breaths arms to the sky. Let's all shout sure Give me Murder let's do this everybody Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it.

We're going to Indiana. That's a place. It's certainly a state and a place. People go, oh, yeah, Indiana. It does exist, yeah. There is stuff there, yeah. Middlebury, Indiana. Oh, the Middlebury.

The Middlebury, which I've never heard of before. It's in northern Indiana. It's about an hour and 20 minutes away from Fort Wayne, if you wanna go there for some reason. By the way, I had somebody tag me and was like, when are you guys coming to Fort Wayne? And I was like, probably not ever, I'll be honest with you. Drive to Chicago, I don't know what to tell you.

I've never been sitting around being like, you know, all the travel I've done in my life. I really want to check out Fort Wayne. I can't wait to get back to Fort Wayne. One place I've never been that I'm just bucket list, Fort Wayne. This is about two hours to Marion, Indiana, which is our last Indiana episode,

which was Beauty and the Beast. And that was a wild one, of course. Indiana, really, you guys bring it hard with weird murders, I'll say it. This week is no exception. This is in Elkhart County, and the population here, 3,446. So this is a small town. Under 5,000 is a real small town. Median household income here, $78,813,

which is above the national average. And the median home price here, which you wouldn't imagine, if I said middle of nowhere, hour and a half from Fort Wayne in Indiana, you'd be like, oh, the houses are free basically, right? They're probably, you know, 60 grand. $313,100 is the median home price here.

The audacity. I don't know what the draw is but whatever. The motto here is grown from tradition. I don't know what they're growing tomatoes, corn, I don't know what but something. 1832 a little bit of the history here. 1832 was when the first settlers came here and they were from Middlebury, Vermont. So they really came a long way. And they chose this area because the rolling hills reminded them of Vermont. Yeah. So why not just stay and fully we could just go to a place that's just like where we lived.

Why don't you just stay in Vermont? Just go to Vermont. Go to middle. Traveling for three months. You guys, do we go in a circle? I don't know. Let's let's go to an identical place and name it the same thing. Go to Middlebury. We've been traveling for three months, you guys. Did we go in a circle? I don't know. Let's just stay here. Let's go to an identical place and name it the same thing.

That'll be fine, right? Stupid. Really weird here. The first children born in Middlebury were in 1835. So for three years, nobody was, it was a chastened existence here in Middlebury. I guess we could fuck. Yeah, I guess so.

It's probably all guys at first. It's usually the settlers come in, and it's dudes at first here. Some of the first people here, there was a guy who came, a carpenter named Squire Lee, who came in 1839, and he lived to be 100 years old, allegedly.

Wow. Who knows if that's true or not. I don't know how great the birth records were in the 1730s or whatever. So we have no idea here. So they eventually got a railroad, which was helpful. And then they started to become like a manufacturing center as well.

They had a bunch of different manufacturing centers came in here. By 1839, there was only 12 families living here. So that's it. And then really never really grew that much. But then in 1841, the first Amish families came to the camp from Pennsylvania and settled around town. This is known as like an Amish area.

This is, watch out, it's super Amish around here is what people say. You never know. It was incorporated as a town in 1868. So reviews of this town, cause we've never been there, we don't know. Here's one. Five stars. Middlebury is the quintessential Norman Rockwell community. Which that says a lot. Yeah, middle America. Yeah, 1940s, whatever. It's safe, friendly and caring. The children play happily

outside on warm days. Families ride and stroll along the pumpkin vine bike trail. And being only an hour to an hour and a half from Chicago, you can easily do day trips to a major city on a whim without living with all the crime and filth. Yeah, right. Indianapolis, a drive. Apparently Chicago's only an hour. So it's commutable to Chicago if you want to take a drive.

So that's something I guess that would make a sense. It would make a sense. I just Hawaii said like that. That would make a sense Five stars Middlebury is a wonderful small town rich with Amish and Mennonite history Amish and English live work eat and socializeize together in all of our school functions, restaurants, and churches. They said Amish and English in like the 1700s when it was just English people here. Right.

We're not all English now. That's weird to say, the Amish and English. Finally, one star, the town I live in, only, the town I live in have only two parks that are seldomly used, have only. Two parks that are seldomly used. People generally go out to the nearby towns to find things to do and how to entertain themselves. Yeah. So there's that.

And then things to do here in this town, the Middlebury Summer Festival. It's a big deal here, boy. This is the 56th coming this year. Oh, shit! Been going on a long time, since 1949. Steeped in history. Gather your family to reconnect with old friends and make new ones while enjoying live bluegrass

and gospel music, delicious festival fare, artisan crafts, children's activities, and much more more they have the largest small town parade in our area That's what they claim The largest small town parade in our town. We don't know about the other I don't know yeah free entertainment and live music which we'll talk about in a moment here and the run is back With five exclamation points as I must have been a must have been really clamoring for that one. They couldn't do it. They've been just chomping at the bit for that shit.

And then a summer festival, three on three basketball tournament on Saturday as well. So you got that. Now, the bands here and different activities here, you have starving artist, which is a band. And I bet they are, too. Probably starving. I bet they are too probably starving They're not eaten by this Quite hungry money, that's for sure no especially from their coveted 12 p.m. Friday slot that they got I really feel like That was free. That's an opener. Yeah, it's 50 bucks for the whole band. All right. Yeah, that's one of those

Keith Miller will be there. Yeah, okay That's yeah, he's just gonna sing jet airplane over and over again Keith Miller will be there. Yeah. Okay. Steve Miller's little brother. Yeah, he's just gonna sing Jet Airplane over and over again. Buddy Pearson will be here. Yeah. Who sounds like a 50s comedian. Doesn't it?

The Buddy Pearson Show. Hey everybody. Or somebody that just covers like the big bopper. Yeah, it's a 50s guy. Marty Miles. They're just singular named people. It's a 50s guy Marty miles. There's just one singular named people It's a bunch of yeah, and it's a bunch of like names of Big boppers style. Yeah, but they're singing bluegrass and and yeah gospel

The barrel scrappers are gonna play after that, but they're gonna have to compete with the rail of the tractor pole Which is going on at the same time. That's lock good good luck assholes Jesus Christ there's also a fishing tournament which makes me think of funny farm every time you're just beating the shit out of it you're beating the piss out of him that's what it was you're not knocking them out you're just beating the piss out of a pancake and sausage breakfast we got the three on three thing cornhole tournament of course let's see and, yeah. Let's see, and free face painting, of course, with artist Linda Pieri. So there you go. That's what they got going on there.

Yeah. That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? I'd much rather. You don't want to talk about bluegrass gospel music anymore? Come on, Jimmy. Jesus Christ. Long caps out there. Be a sport. What are we doing here?

All right, let's go back in time a little bit. 20 years, 2005, we're gonna go back to. So, you know, pretty similar to today. Cell phone in your hand, not doing as much though. Just, you're real excited it's taking pictures at this point, jacked about that. I still remember T-Zones from T-Mobile, the most frustrating shit on the planet.

It was like, why even act like this is the internet? This is not the internet If you want to check your email you can do it in about an hour and a half. So there's that While you wait for it to load So this one 2005 let's start by talking about a lady here Barbara Jo Neff is her that's where she was born. Later on she'll be Kime, K-E-I-M. Wow. Kime or Keem, however you want to do it. I'm sure it's Kime. Kime. Barbara here,

she's 41 years old in 19, or in 2005, so she's born in 64. She's from this area, she's from Elkhart County, lived here her whole life. She has one brother and four sisters, so she's one of six kids. That's a lot. Wow. That's a lot. Real close with her sisters as well, as I would imagine. Five sisters would probably.

Five sisters. It's all girls? There's five sisters and one brother. Oh my. That kid is, oof. That poor bastard. Man, how many times has he been made over? And he's like, oh god.

Yeah. Everything he sees has he been made over? He's like, Oh God, everything he sees has a tint of pink to it. So where he looks pink is burned into his retinas. He could probably do makeup better than Trixie Mattel though. I bet this guy's, he's been, he's been made up quite a bit. Yeah. That guy knows the smoky eyelid for sure. So people always say about Barbara, she is a nurturer and a very nice caring woman, which makes sense

because she eventually goes into a career in nursing, which those two things kinda go hand in hand. You can't be like, I just hate people, but I wanna be a nurse. I hate taking care of them. I just hate being at their beck and call and helping them and shit, I just don't like it. So yeah, she ends up becoming a nurse

at the General Hospital in the maternity department in Elkhart County. So she's a maternity nurse, so that's, you know. That's tough. That's tough and it's nice because there's a lot of joy in that too. You know, people are happy. And it's quick turnover.

You got 48 hours, get the fuck out. Unless it's something complicated, most of the deliveries are probably joyous occasions. And probably even then the baby stays and mom gets the fuck out lives yeah yeah if everybody lives it's great what's my first daughter neonatal intensive care unit for a wife if it lives we will be. That's what it feels like. So 1986 she meets a man named Alex Stone. Now Alex Stone is a Methodist and in various articles they call him a Methodist preacher, pastor and priest, which I don't know what Methodists have, but he's the guy in the front telling you what Jesus did.

Let's just say that much. Well at least he's not a moil. I don't know. Yeah, and he's a moil also. So she meets him and they get married in late 1986. They are gonna have a young daughter in 1988 named Hannah. So Hannah Stone is her name, 1988. Yeah, we'll talk about her in a little bit here.

So 1991, she divorces Alex, the first husband, Alex Stone. Barbara and him get a divorce. A couple years later she's going to marry a man named Robert Keim. That's how she got the Keim. And they're going to have a son as well. In about the year 2000 they're going to have a little boy named Timothy. So yeah, they're going to, she's got the two kids from the separate marriages. And she's also very big into church, Barbara.

She likes to go to church. She's a very small town, Indiana. I mean, nurse, you know, she's very nice. She hasn't lived in Middlebury very long, which she's been around Elkhart County here. But everyone knows her as a nice person. Everyone thinks she's a sweetheart, basically, here. Everyone at the hospital loves her, thinks she's great. She's, you know, everybody wants to work with her. So 1996 is when she ends up marrying Robert, okay?

Now Hannah, the daughter, doesn't like Robert. No. No, absolutely not. They don't get along, apparently, a lot. Not sure why, but she's like eight years old at the time they get together. Wow, yep, that's why. But it's tough, yeah, so they don't get along and that causes a lot of strife in the household and things like that. Robert was a deputy sheriff with the Elkhart County Sheriff's Office and he apparently was very strict and stern. Very strict and stern with Hannah who was not used to that and if you start imposing that on an eight year old girl

who hasn't had that, it's gonna be some issues there. He's basically a town sitter. Yeah. That's no fun. You don't want the town sitter in your house. That is tough, man. Yeah. He tells adults what to do.

Yeah, he's always watching. He's punishing them when they're bad. Yeah, he's on the side of the Yeah, he's always watching them when they're bad. Yeah catches. Yeah He's on the side of the road. You're driving too fast Jesus come down punishes them fuck Jesus. So 2000 is when the little boy Timothy is born and Hannah loves her little brother, by the way She holds no acrimony toward the little brother for being like a product of a relationship she's not crazy about. But she would always tell her friends that Barbara loved her little brother more than she loved her.

So that was a thing she was known for saying all the time, oh, my mom only cares about my little brother and things like that. Which is just what you feel like when you are the kid from the previous family and now you're the fourth wheel in a new family. You know what I mean? When you are the child whose novelty wore off. Yeah, that's how you feel, whether it's true or not. I had it twice.

Both my parents wanted to get remarried and have kids, so I was like, oh, okay. So I always felt like I was never, even though they didn't try to make me feel like that or anything, but I never felt like I was a part of anybody's family. I always felt like I was my own entity, you know? You go back and forth. It's made more fucked up when like, your parents call each other to celebrate and people that they were even together.

Yeah. Remember when we got married and made that stupid fuckhead kid? Remember when we did that dumb shit? And they're both still married to the people they remarried, had real stable shit, and my brothers had real stable upbringings and all that, and mine is a fucking mess, and it's like, yeah, thanks guys. I never even thought about that.

That's a lot of fun. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. You wonder why I'm kind of leery of joining things. Your parents call each other to laugh that they used to be married. Isn't that weird? It's fucking true man, see Through the course of this show people have gotten to know me and Little weirdness a little peek behind the curtain every once in a while, and what created this might help, but I think...

That's certainly detrimental to your fucking development. Wasn't helpful, I'll tell you that much. That's why you become a comedian. You're like, look at me! I know you got a cute baby, but look over here, I'm funny! Christ, that's so funny. Give me a microphone so I can fucking make people listen to me. Ah, it's your weekend to have the reminder

that we used to be married. Hope he doesn't cramp your guys' style too much. Here, you gotta take it with you. Would you take James? We're trying to have a happy life. We're trying to have a happy life. We're trying to have a happy life. I was just gonna ask you the same thing. It's even sadder because it was little Jimmy.

Will you take little Jimmy? That's even sadder. Outside of the show, I'm Jimmy to everybody else. So that's what's fucked up too. Makes it sound sadder. Ah, fucking Jimmy. Me with my fucking ball cut. Nice. Perfect. looking like 77 Pete Rose unreal okay so I yeah that's what's going on here so Barbara would always

reassure Hannah she loved both of them equally and I believe Barbara too from what everybody says she didn't treat them poorly or anything like that but anyway before Hannah right before she gets to high school, Barbara and Robert decide to get a divorce. So they split up. So yeah, so now Barbara and Hannah end up moving into a small apartment in Middlebury, and then the son has its shared custody with the father. So he goes back and forth.

So we've got two failed marriages now. Two failed. Yeah, and Hannah's like, well, how do you like that little brother? Now? Now who's the intruder? Now you know how it feels. One of us lives here all the time. Yeah, Hannah's like, well, how do you like that little brother now? Now who's the intruder? One of us lives here all the time now a little bit about Hannah here people always call her the preacher's daughter That's a big thing preacher's daughter preacher's daughter because her dad's a preacher So that that has a lot of tentacles to it being a preacher's kid

That's sometimes positive and sometimes negative. So when she entered high school she was feeling rebellious we'll say. I'm sure. It's just you know the way it is it makes sense. She transferred to the high school in Middlebury and found a new group of friends and they're a little more of a kind of like an emo gothy group than she's used to that she used to hang out with but it's high school So yeah, that's fine people. Yeah, it's just the way they dress and what music they listen to it I mean, it's all you don't not like you have a weird lifestyle in high school So go home and eat dinner with your parents and then put black shirts on who gives a shit. It's just how you

Projecting how you feel that's all that's how you feel and we get it. That's it so she really gets tight with her new group of friends and that's kind of like her support system in terms of the way she thinks about it here. And basically there isn't a lot to do around Middlebury for a teenager. No, I can't imagine. So you just drive around the back roads

of Amish country is all you do, like as a teenager. And even like saying I'm from Middle, it sounds so lovely. It sounds very nice, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't sound like there would be a kid with all black clothing there and black lipstick. No, I would have certainly found a field to grow weed in here.

This would have been my teenage goal here. Just toss it out the window at the exact same spot every day. There we go. Go back and see. Keep going, see what's going on here. So they would drive around and you know play music and do all that kind of thing here. Now she has a complete jerk off of a boyfriend. Of course she does. This guy Spencer and that's with an S by the way. Spen S-E-R not C-E-R. Stop it. Oh yeah. Spence

someone is not good at spelling in his family. Spencer Anthony Krempitz, K-R-E-M-P-E-T-Z, Krempitz. God damn. That's a bad name. He's 18 in 2005, so he's a year older than Hannah. And apparently they met at a place called The Post, Hannah and Spencer, which is a youth center outside of Middlebury where local bands play. And they have like a little coffee shop kind of a thing

going on and kids hang out there, which sounds like the 50s. I mean, or any, it's basically the center spot that every fucking city has too. You know what I mean? We didn't have a little coffee spot where the teens heard the bands bop. No, if you wanted to go somewhere,

fucking New York City's an hour away, get in the fucking train and go see, you know, go see Metallica at Madison Square Garden, you pussy, what are you doing? No one wants to do this, but this person, I don't know, this sounds like the 50s though. We're gonna go down to a little coffee shop and hear the bands play.

Put your hoop skirt on, it's strange. But charming. There were just no bands playing, but it was where everybody congregated, you know what I mean, perhaps. Oh, you'd have like the places people hung out at. Yeah, yeah, totally, but like to have no bands playing but it was where everybody congregated. You know what I mean? Oh, you'd have like places people hung out at yeah Yeah, totally but like to have local bands playing that no it looks like one of those early 60s movies where everybody's bopping You know what I mean? Like?

No, no never so and yeah if they were it was in someone's garage So the way they met is Spencer met one of Hannah's girlfriends and offered her a cigarette, which is a nice come on. Want to smoke, baby? Yeah. And she said no. Square. What are you, a square?

No, no, that's what they called him. No, no, yeah, I know, it's a square, but I was thinking the 50s still. I was stuck in the 50s. I'm there with you. So she, the girlfriend said no. And Spencer said, why? We're all going to die at some point anyway. It doesn't matter.

Oh, Spencer. I have such 18-year-old, you know, angst, man. Angst energy, yeah. You're all going to die anyway. Now, Spencer's had not a great life either. We'll put it, I mean, this, things create an 18-year-old that acts like a jackass. Yeah. They're made, they're not just,

they don't sprout out of the ground. That sex is looking for attention though. That's what I mean. Oh yeah. I mean, he is just screaming, look at me, I'm interesting. Look at me, all his clothes, everything. He's got, he's a lot of,

he's got a lot of Damien Echols in him. Okay. As far as, and that's not an insult even to Damien Echols, cause that's like, as far as he wants to show I'm not like you Hicks in this little town and I am different. That's his thing, you know what I mean? And it's the same type of thing.

He's a smart kid that has shit grades. We all know those people, that's what I mean. There's a lot of those in every town. He was molested when he was five by an older kid. Jesus Christ. At least it wasn't like his grandfather or somebody in a position of trust, an older kid, but still, that'll fuck your whole shit up, obviously.

It'll ruin you, yeah. So he was in and out of an abusive household. He attended 13 schools. Which puts, that puts me to shame, so that sucks, 13 schools. He is smart, but he gets shit grades. He started drinking while still in elementary school. Yikes.

And by 11, he was smoking weed and doing acid as well. You should not be doing acid. You shouldn't be smoking weed or drinking either. Fifth grade doing acid? But you should definitely not be doing acid until your brain is fucking off. That'll make cartoons fun. Your concrete has to set a little bit before you start doing acid because that fucks with your brain.

It really does. That'll leave footprints in it. Yeah. So then from ages 14 to 16, he was doing heroin. This is terrible. This is not good. Then when he was 16, he gave up heroin, but he learned that the guy he always thought was his father wasn't his father.

Fantastic. Which is also, again, never good at all. That's- When does he start mutilating puppies? Gonna say, that's what they think set Ted Bundy off. Right, yeah. To this day, that's what everybody thinks set Ted Bundy off when he found out

that his, who he thought was his dad wasn't his dad. Yeah, so that age, around 16, that's when he left home and moved out and He moved in with friends and things like that. He got real into the whole death thing That was a real big thing much like Damien Echols. He was real into the whole death thing. He Stole this is funny. He stole bats from Halloween displays He stole bats from Halloween displays. Oh, the animal bat. Will wings, yeah, batty.

So that's not real dark. Let's be realistic here, just because he thought it was cool to hang bats around. But I mean, from Halloween displays are not exactly- What, are you a vampire? Yeah, if he was out like killing bats and like, you know, laminating them and hanging them from a ceiling, that would be weird. Yeah, when your bedroom just smells like rubber, that's no good. That's strange.

So he's real into like, you know, metal music, obviously, and anything about death. You know, I'm sure he's into like that weird Northern European death metal and shit like that. He spent the night in a mausoleum a couple times just to be creepy and tell people that here. He would walk around Middlebury in a black trench coat. Does this sound familiar? If you've listened to the West Memphis stuff, a lot of kids like this at this time too.

That's it. Yeah. And this was just to try to make people look at him. He was trying to cause a stir and that's it. He tried to make a statement by the way he walked and he tried to intimidate people and people mentioned people would always say that he had an evil look in his eye I don't know what that means other than I'm 18 and I want to be tough. So nobody else molests me You know psychologically that's what's behind that. You know, I mean keep your finger out of my ass. That's it. So August 3rd

2005 this is all kind of coming to a head where as you can imagine Barbara is not thrilled that Hannah has chosen this man as her boyfriend. It's a little disappointing, sure. Not liking him at all. A few miles from the glass spires of Midtown Atlanta lies the South River Forest. In 2021 and 2022, the woods became a home to activists from all over the country who gathered to stop the nearby construction of a massive new police training facility, nicknamed Cop City. At approximately nine o'clock this morning, as law enforcement was moving through various

sectors of the property, an individual without warning shot a Georgia State patrol trooper. This is We Came to the Forest, a story about resistance, The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty and shut down. love and fellowship, It was probably the happiest I've ever been in my life. and the lengths will go to protect the things we hold closest to our hearts. Follow We Came to the Forest on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest early and ad-free right now by joining

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You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. It's an ongoing battle and this day it happens where finally Barbara tells Hannah if you're not going to break up with Spencer you gotta get out. I can't have this here. It's too much disruption. I don't want him in my house blah blah blah So Hannah said fine. I'll leave oh

And so she and Spencer went to their friend's house Aaron McDonald Who's 17 years old to hang out and smoke weed and figure out what they're gonna do with their lives now This is the danger in giving your kid an ultimatum. That's the problem Yeah, especially at 17, because they feel like if they back down now, then they're not as grown up as they thought they were. Well, there's also the, I'm 17, so within at least 11 months, at maximum 11 months,

you can't tell me shit anyway. That's part of it too, I think. Which they think, yeah. And it's also like, you're not gonna, if you're gonna tell me what I can do and what I can't do, I'm gonna leave, but then you don't have really a plan for how you're gonna leave. You're just, you're 17. Right, no, no, no, no, no.

Of course not, yeah. So Aaron McDonald, their buddy here, he started, he has, predates Spencer in weed smoking. He started smoking weed at age six. Yeah, I mean. Which, I love weed. I'm a big weed guy. That is too early to start smoking weed six

Certainly an interesting choice. Wow He right. He's a regular presence in church and school though, and everyone thought he was a real nice kid Aaron he just he kind of hides his shit Behind everything here. Everyone says he's kind of a follower, you know, he's trying to be a part of something That's kind of his thing. He's got a good childhood and a good family though. I don't know how they weren't noticing that he was fucking high at age six, but I don't know. He might have went and stayed at an aunt's house and he had an older co- who the hell knows how that happened. So when he was in elementary school though, he starts to fall behind as

elementary school starts going and he basically wasn't bright enough to keep up in class. Which he might have been before he started smoking weed at age six though, who knows. Perhaps he killed the brain cells that needed. Fuck, he would come home from school and he'd be crying because the kids at school thought he was stupid and made fun of him for it. And he was pretty stupid. So he, and he, and he wanted to be accepted and he wanted friends and they were just like, you're a fucking dummy. So that's how it went. He came home crying because they found out.

Yeah. And then, so you end up with this group of other kind of misfits. That's how it's the misfit toys, you know, they go together. Yeah. Dum dum's hang out with dum dum's. That's it.'s the misfit toys, you know, they go together. Yeah, dumb dumbs hang out with dumb dumbs That's it. So this week by the way, Barbara's divorce just became final earlier that week So, I don't know if she was just laying down the law. I got divorced I don't want this kid in my house either fuck off meeting Spencer not Hannah, obviously so August 4th is going to be a busy day for Barbara August 4th to 4th 2005

she's supposed to spend the morning at the Elkhart General Hospital and is going to be a busy day for Barbara, August 4th, 2005. She's supposed to spend the morning at the Elkhart General Hospital and doing her job. The afternoon, she was going to go house hunting with a friend, and in the evening, she had plans to get together with her sisters. So it's a full day here. Problem is, she doesn't show up for any of that shit. Oh.

Including picking her son up also the next day, August 5th from her ex-husband. From the ex, you gotta do that. So yeah, no one has heard from her since 7.30 p.m. on August 3rd basically is what they figure out. She is described as five foot six inches, 150 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, and people at work report her missing.

Oh. Because she never doesn't show up, and then when they find out she hasn't shown up to anything else either, not like Barbara at all. And the cops are called, and the Middlebury police said that they're looking into it, and they weren't ruling anything out. They were investigating it as a missing person case.

And as a matter of fact, no one can find Hannah either. She's also missing Oh, no, so they're like, oh no mother and daughter have been disappeared here. This isn't good friends and family They took like right away that because it's a town of 3,500 people The press is all over it right away friends and family or the next day posting flyers It's you know, her friend said that you just feel helpless, what more can you do? We're exhausted from lack of sleep. That's like two days later. He said she doesn't miss appointments, she's a responsible person.

And yeah, so the investigation here on August 5th is, so that's the day after she goes missing. August 3rd she has a fight with Hannah, Hannah leaves. August 4th she has that's the day after she goes missing August 3rd. She has a fight with Hannah Hannah leaves August 4th She has a lot of plans and goes missing August 5th the police are investigating They're called to Barbara and Hannah's apartment to do a welfare check after one of Barbara's sisters called 9-1-1 To report that she didn't show up for work that day because work had called the sister to say hey You know where your sister is so police look around the apartment. They don't have a search warrant or anything, so they can't really search, but they do a look around, a welfare check, you know, see if

anybody's there. They find some cigarette butts in the living room, which they thought was odd because the sister said Barbara doesn't smoke and hates smoking and wouldn't let anyone smoke in her house. And smoking in the house of somebody that doesn't smoke, that's crazy. Oh, they're gonna... That's insane. No one does that. Out past about 1985, that's never happened.

Yeah, smoking in somebody's house? Back in the day, we all had that like old uncle who was like 70 who no matter whose house they were in, he was allowed to smoke because he was smoking. I had one of those. You just get him an ashtray. He's lighting up. So you might as well get him an ashtray So Police didn't know if maybe they were the cigarette butts belonged to Hannah or maybe some of her friends because no one's home at the Time so they don't know what's going on. They do see her wallet laying out on the table Barbara's wallet

Her ID is still in there, but her credit card is missing along with some cash. But there's some cash there still, which is interesting. So they said, that's odd. Why would you, yeah. But they ruled that there's suspicious activity because of the cigarette butts that definitely don't belong to the resident.

So they decide they're gonna really look into this you know, further here. So they put out an attempt to locate notice for Barbara and Hannah and they're missing. They called the hospitals and different police departments and everything else and now this is an apartment so there's people who live above and below Barbara as well and they said that several neighbors that lived above and below said that they heard scuffling The day before on August 4th and also heard yelling and screaming, but they just thought you know people were fighting Barbara's gonna Barbara none of my business. Yeah, so they weren't called that night

Nobody called the cops, but the detective said oh shit now. We've heard scuffling and screaming and they're missing and there's cigarette butts and something's not right here. So later that day, police get a call from Barbara's ex-husband, who is a cop, Robert, the one she just divorced. And obviously the divorce just went through last week, so they would love to have a chit-chat with this fucking guy. Oh, those guys are oftentimes not good. They oftentimes know how to hide things too. So he called to report that Barbara was supposed to pick up

the five year old and take care of him and she didn't show. So he said no we don't have even a bad relationship. Our divorce was amicable, you know it was a mutual split, everything is fine. We're still friends. So, he gave police her phone number, other contact info, relative, anybody he could give them basically and cooperated completely. They later interviewed her other ex-husband, Alex Stone, and he said he would file an official

missing persons report for his daughter, Hannah. That way they can get search warrants and really attack this thing here. So one of Barbara's neighbors says that they witnessed a couple people taking out the trash from Barbara's apartment on the night of the 4th, August 4th and loading some boxes into Barbara's red vehicle. The person was described as a female with dark hair and heavy set, which describes Hannah pretty well. And the man was described as a quote, thin dude. So cowboy hat, horse under him, you know. Thin dude. The person also reported

those two taking the red vehicle with them, which is Barbara and Hannah's car that they share. So police, once they hear that, they rush back to the apartment. When they get in the apartment, they find that the cigarette butts are gone now. What? Cigarette butts are gone, along with Barbara's wallet and her ID, all that shit that was on the table, and the keys to the car which were there to begin with also. Holy shit!

It's all gone. So somebody snuck in under the cops nose and cleaned this fucking place out. Wow. So this is starting to look very nefarious now. Yeah, no kidding. They found that the apartment had been cleaned and police are like, well this is obviously an attempt to get rid of some evidence here. Now it's an official kidnapping case, not just the missing persons.

So they are granted police are a subpoena for Barbara's phone and financial records. And that gives the pings of where the phone was and where it was used and everything like that. Apparently the phone was steady and normal activities up until the night of August 4th and then nothing after that time is found. The phone just stops. The police do find with the financial records that at 10pm on August 4th a sum of money was taken out of an ATM, $200 using Barbara's card. They said that Barbara, everybody said Barbara never took money out of ATMs at all. So that's strange.

No, never. They said that what they also found is that on August 5th, a check for $800 was written from her account to be used for vehicle repairs. Okay, the check was written to a name, not cash. The name they find it, Aaron McDonald. Remember him? He's our 17 year old friend who they went over

to smoke weed at his house. Sure, yeah. The one that's been smoked since he was six. The dummy, yeah. So apparently they had had previous contact with him in the past for minor incidents, so they knew where he lived and who he was and how to get a hold of him.

So they question him about the check and he claims and the disappearance of Hannah and Barbara and he says, I don't know anything about it. He said, I don't know. Me and my friend Nate did vehicle repairs on her car and Barbara's car. So that's what the money was for. And the cop was like, I don't think so. They go, you're not a fucking mechanic. First of all, you're a dummy 17 year old.

You don't know how shit works old you're not a mechanic and they said well let me get your friend Nate's contact information so they talked to Nate and he says I wasn't with McDonald then no I didn't know what the fuck he's talking about no that was a real dummy thing to do involve somebody that has no idea what you're talking about none but get a loop him in though Don't tell him ahead of time. So he said that he was nervous that if he tells what he knows, then he's going to get in trouble. Okay.

So Nate. Now you have to tell everything. Now it must be really good. Now I really want to know. So Nate's mom encouraged him to come forward here and come forward and say what you fucking know. So Nate said that McDonald told him to lie about the vehicle mechanic work and mentioned a crime involving Hannah and Spencer, the boyfriend. So at some point during this

investigation here now they have some information they have Aaron they get to Aaron they come sit Aaron down and within an hour they find Barbara. Oh. Oh yeah. They make an announcement. The chief investigator for the prosecutor's office said, a body has been found. Oh no. We have not made a positive identification.

We're withholding any other further information until positive identification is made. Persons of interest are being interviewed. Yeah, they already know. They know. So Aaron took the cops to her body. Ah. Here she is. Yeah.

So, then, this is now Saturday night of that week. At 3.40 a.m., they find at the Goshen Motel nearby, they find the red car, Barbara's car, parked in the parking lot of the motel. So the vehicle has a broken out window and there's also vomit on the side of the vehicle next to it. So that's interesting. So they surround everything, they talk to the people in the hotel and they're like,

by any chance is this person or this person or this person registered and lo and behold there is a Spencer Krepitz Krepitz Krepitz registered to one of the hotel rooms so they make entry into the room they kick the door down there's Hannah and Spencer in bed together all snuggled up there they are we need more towels oh, housekeeping is a motherfucker now. So they hold him at gunpoint, there's no resistance, they actually come, nobody says shit, they arrest Hannah. Some of Barbara's things were in the room as well, they were stolen from the house. So Aaron McDonald also arrested obviously here, he was, you know.

He knows too much. Yep. Apparently, he had a, his conscience got to him here And he had called his aunt on the night of August 6th and his aunt showed up and he was crying when she showed up And he explained that Spencer killed a lady and that he was with them when it happened. Oh boy, so the While he is sobbing and confessing to his aunt, the police show up and take him into custody. So they're like, we know you got something to tell us,

brother, you're a crying. What's up with the tears, bud? What's up with that? So yeah, they figure out, and then he takes them to the body. Now what the fuck happened? How did this happen? Why, and yeah, what's going on?

How, well obviously Barbara was abducted from her apartment here, clearly. They said it would appear that she was murdered in either the late hours of Thursday evening or early Friday morning Based upon the information that we have it was it would appear that she was murdered in the cornfield where she was found Victim of a gunshot wound to the back of the head Wow, okay so they said that apparently and we'll get into the details of it, but they bum rushed her and bound her wrists with tape and duct taped her eyes and mouth shut and everything too. What the fuck?

So they loaded her into the car, drove her toward the county line, and then they led her into a cornfield and shot her in the back of the fucking head. Wow. So they said the police announced statements from Spencer Krempitz and Aaron McDonald state that the idea to commit this act belonged to Hannah Stone. Is that right? Yeah. Hannah Stone, Spencer Krempitz and Aaron McDonald provided police with statements admitting guilt in this crime. They said whatever whatever reasons we determine will not be any reasons that anyone

of normal sensibilities can justify. Yeah, you're not gonna understand this. Because they were asked, why'd this happen? The press was asking, they're like, psh. You don't wanna know. You crazy? Yeah. You've been doing acid since you're 11?

If not, I don't think you can explain it. You can't relate. No, so here is the whole lowdown and what happened here. Okay. Wow. Apparently, Hannah and Spencer, You can't relate no so here is the whole lowdown and what happened here, okay? apparently Hannah and Spencer after the fight between Hannah and Barbara about you're not allowed to see Spencer anymore Hannah and Spencer came to Aaron's house to hang out and smoke some weed Now they said they wanted to rob and kill Hannah's mom. That was the plan

McDonald said she said that her and her mother didn't get along, Hannah's mom wouldn't let her and Spencer be together. So McDonald said at first he wasn't interested, but when they brought it up again, he was like, well apparently they really wanna do it, I should help. So he offers to borrow a gun from a friend of his. That's a step. That's a step.

That's a step, yeah, he just didn't have to do that at all. And then it would have been a lot easier. If you guys don't shut the fuck up about this, I'm gonna bring a gun and make you do it. Also, we're smoking weed. What are you, relax. The fuck is happening right now? You're killing this, man.

So they plan it out. Part of the plan was that Aaron would be able to get the gun and then they said that they'd give him $400 out part of the plan was that Aaron would be able to get the gun and Then they said that they'd give him four hundred dollars for For do for helping out and getting the gun and helping them do this So he is going to participate in a murder for four hundred dollars so apparently Barbara was alone and There was a knock at the door

Hannah was at the door okay a knock at the door. Hannah was at the door. Okay, by herself at the door. And apparently, Hannah said from outside, I need to pick up some clothes. You know, I'm not trying to bother you, I just need to pick up some clothes, I gotta get some stuff. Gonna live with my boyfriend.

So Barbara opened the door. And Hannah walked in and unfortunately, hiding in the stairwell right outside the door Was Spencer and Aaron both of them Spencer bum rushed in and tackled Barbara and started to choke her Aaron said she was screaming and Aaron showed her the gun and told her to be quiet So she said he then said that Spencer used duct tape to cover Barbara's eyes and mouth and to bind her hands. And after they bound Barbara, Aaron said that Hannah made noises like fake sniveling.

Like she's trying to be sad now. So yeah, so what they said is they figured if they acted like Hannah was also being held hostage and being attacked that Barbara would be more compliant. Like I'll hurt her if you're not cool type of thing. So that's what they tried to act like. That's why the fake sniveling. That's what that happened. So Spencer here pulls the tape off of her mouth and interrogates her Saying where's your ATM card and your pin number? What's your pin number all that kind of shit? so then

Spencer starts to drag Barbara outside to her car to her van But a neighbor came out so they take they run back inside with her now imagine if this isn't so horrifying it's hilarious if this was like three mob guys taking another mob guy and like a silly movie you'd be like oh that's funny they take him out oh no back in but it's not funny at all because this poor woman is bound and like oh help me help me and no one can help her snatch is supposed to be a movie of like it's showing a lot of terrible things, but it's a very funny movie. Exactly, well yeah, I mean.

There's a lot of people that die in this point. Goodfellas is fucking hilarious, The Sopranos is hilarious, and there's a lot of that shit. Yeah, it's hilarious. You know, in the right context, it's perfect here. So he goes back inside, and then had McDonald pull the van closer to the door,

so they could run out and throw her in there, basically. Because they had a van and then they come back and get her car as well. So Hannah agreed to stay in the apartment in case the neighbors heard any of that shit and called the cops. She could be there to be like, I don't know what you're talking about,

everything's cool, have a good one guys. So they do that. Now Spencer drives the van with McDonald in the back and they go to an ATM near the Concord mall where Aaron withdraws $200 from Barbara's account. So they do all of that they start driving again Aaron McDonald said that I don't know where I didn't know where we were. It felt like we drove for hours. Now during this, by the way, Aaron is fucking basically for whatever he says, terrorizing Barbara with saying shit to her holding the gun to her head. He's being an asshole. This is ridiculous.

At one point though, he's Aaron says that Spencer asked me for the gun. He got out and took Mrs. Kime out of the back seat. I got out and he was walking her into the cornfield, which is terrifying. Now when they got out in the middle of the field, what Spencer deemed far enough basically, he stops Barbara and he's got the gun holding it to the back of her head and he tells her to recite the Lord's Prayer. Which is just weird. She was not doing it well,

even though she's a church person, she's terrified and nothing is coming out really. So Aaron helps her finish it off. Let me help you with that. Oh boy. Helps her say the Lord's Prayer, then turns around and goes back to the van. Okay.

Spencer, when she finished, said, you're not gonna say amen? And so Barbara said amen, and he shot her in the back of the head. Wow. That's how that worked. Cold-blooded shit. Yep, Spencer said he was fascinated

by the way her body fell. Just you know, with nothing under it like that. So he got back to the van and Aaron said he had no remorse at all. You can tell that by his statement basically. Aaron said quote, he said he was going to have sex with Hannah in Mrs. Kym's bed. He was going to sleep in her bed. What the fuck. He's like, I'm going to sleep in her bed. What the fuck?

He's like, I'm gonna go bang her daughter in her bed now. That's his fucking plan. So obviously not a lot of remorse there. Even Gypsy Rose and her boyfriend got a hotel. Yeah, well no, they had some in the house too, but then they went to a hotel. Not in her bed though. I mean she was in it still, but.

Yeah, yeah. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week on redacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories. 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners but as assets to advance US intelligence during

the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories, they're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted, Declassified Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad-free right now on Wondery+. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul the man who redefined fame

fortune and the music industry. Did he built an empire and live the life most people only dream about everybody no no party like a did he party so yeah, but just as quickly as his empire rose it came crashing down. Today, I'm announcing the unsealing of a 3 count indictment charging Sean combs with racketeering conspiracy sex trafficking interstate transportation for prostitution

I was. I have robbed bottom I made no excuses. It's just so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. In the 1980s, a rose swept the country. Hey Mike, I really like this white Zinfandel. Well good, good. Now put it down, we're gonna try another one. White Zin became America's top-selling wine.

But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history. What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles… A big fraud. A multi-million dollar fraud. Sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business, the Lacharties. But the closer the feds got to them, the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit. At the time I was paranoid. Threats.

You touched my kids. I will kill you. And murder. With a.22 caliber bullet to the head. What started with a scheme to mislabel wine spilled into a blood-soaked battle for succession. Welcome to Blood Vines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. So Mccarran said that Spencer said it felt good to take someone's soul.

And he said, What the fuck? Yeah, he said Spencer was talking crazy and even roared like a lion. He was trying to show off that. Look how crazy I am. So they drove to a gas station and they both bought cigarettes. They stopped at another ATM,

but $200 limit on that one, babe, per day. Yeah, you gotta wait till tomorrow. Yep, couldn't get any more money. So they drove. Big spender. Big spender. So they drove to a house they could get drugs at, an Elkhart, and they bought some weed. And then they went to another gas station

to buy some rolling papers. Then they drove back to Barbara's apartment to meet up with Hannah. We got cigarettes, weed, and rolling papers, it's party time. We're flush. Flush. So Spencer and Aaron, they drive back to meet up with Hannah and Aaron said that they were going back so we could have sex in her bed and all that kind of shit.

Once they got to the apartment they got stoned and just chilled out and said that Hannah was giddy and excited. Hannah was in a happy mood and laughing and she said, this is Aaron's quote, she told Spencer, don't you know you've got blood on your face? And they were laughing about it. He's been doing this all day with blood on his face. With blood on his face. He's been going to stores and shit.

God. Didn't even go in the bathroom, wipe it off. with blood on his face. With blood on his face. He's been going to stores and shit. God damn it. Didn't even go in the bathroom, wipe it off. And at one point Hannah said, I love my mom's dead. Oh, Hannah. Wow. So then Aaron went home. The next morning Spencer and Hannah woke him up and asked if he wanted to go out.

He said no, so they went and did something. But Aaron said he wanted to do something He went back to that to Barbara's apartment and stole a check and wrote it for a check to himself for $800 and cashed it And that's how he's in this fucking mess So Yeah, now the cops are real happy with themselves over this They're impressed. Yeah, they Law enforcement personnel made something happen and made it happen quickly really from Friday to Sunday a lot of manpower went into this case

They're like man They have like a woman who's like oh Jesus. I can't move after you they're like, yeah, I gave it They gave it to her good. Yeah, there she is Yeah, yeah, that's right. And then they said another statement normal people We want to believe there's a reason or some rationale behind Why these things occur and it's hard to get caught up in that whatever reasons we determine won't be any reasons that anyone of now Any normal sensibility can justify so? The funeral they have a big giant funeral and you know, it's a it's a big deal here, obviously

The preacher made sure to say to follow Barbara's example and learn to extend love without judgment Matter who did this or what happens, you know be fucking you know She wants you to be all Christian about it, so you should now after his arrest Spencer Went back and forth here, and he wrote a letter that he tried to send to Hannah in jail, but it was intercepted of course. He said they were stupid to think they could get away with it and at the end he wrote what we did was senseless. And reckless.

And reckless. Dumb. Jesus. He also wrote a giant thing to the judge. Like a fucking book about why he did this and his thoughts and feelings and just, it's a diary basically and then he said here you go you guys have that I'm a disturbed individual yeah read about it he said at one point he said if you're going to get caught and go to jail or prison you might as well go for something big go big or go home really really

so he's gonna go big and go he's gonna go big and go to court is what he's going to do because he's in a lot of fucking trouble. He is the trigger person and he says it, admits it and Aaron says it too. And the fact that he did it really coldly, there's a lot of call for the people who want the death penalty for this kid. So in order to avoid any of that, he's going to plead guilty to murder. Yeah, he's gonna plead guilty. Now there's a pre-sentencing, a two week delay,

so his attorneys could present a detailed mental health evaluation here. And the sentencing, this is what the doctor said, the psychiatrist, Dr. Yoder testified that Krempitz was manipulative glorified his problems and was deceptive during testing. So not a good guy at all is what he said. All the victims come in as well all the victims Barbara's family you know her sister said our beloved sister aunt mother and friend is gone forever which is bad because the death

penalty was not an option we feel that life without parole is the only adequate sentence. They also said there's no words to describe the pain and grief they've caused many families, not just ours, and yeah, and then they talk about how little Timothy's not gonna have his mom and all this type of shit, and that's horrible. So the judge here has his writings,

has Spencer's writings. And Spencer requested that the judge read them in order to understand what was going on. That way, that's his like statement, is I'm gonna give you this whole manuscript and you can read it and that's my statement of why I shouldn't get life without parole. So the judge says that in this, manuscript and you can read it and that's my statement of why I shouldn't get life without parole.

So the judge says that in this Spencer focuses on his girlfriend and complains among other things that she was the central wrongdoer in the commission of this offense. He also said that she was getting in the way of my affairs Spencer said. What affairs do you have? You're an 18 year old jerk off. You have no affairs. And he also said, I just wanted to kill. The money was just a bonus.

What the fuck? He said he's been fascinated with robbery and murder for a long time. And he was into it. He described himself as a quote, young man who was trying to do his girlfriend's bidding Trying to make himself useful and probably trying to impress her that he could be counted on to do the tough things that she didn't want to do

So the judge said at times you let a very lonely existence you turn to drugs alcohol sexual activity Rebellion perhaps to cope you read a rather nomadic lifestyle you claimed few friends to cope. You read a rather nomadic lifestyle. You claimed few friends. You were somewhat desperate for attention. Hannah Stone clearly filled a void in your life. You missed your family. She became your family. Taking a life seemed to fascinate you. You wanted to see what it was like. You wanted to know what it was like. At one point the judge asked Spencer if he thought about backing out. And he said, but from your writings it says in your own words you did think About backing out but you quote fought it off the way you put it Thought out the thought off the urge to be a fucking decent human being. Yeah, you know, I thought about it for a while

But I was like now that's crazy. I considered it yeah, and Then the judge says talks about making her recite the prayer. Okay. And he said, you wanted to know, and this is what Spencer wrote in his thing. You wanted to know if God would deliver Barbara from evil. You didn't think he would, which no, um, they also note the contrary to Spencer's claim that he acted under the

domination of his girlfriend. The trial court recounted his statements where he said among other things this is nobody's fault but my own, nobody twisted my arm and I was only convinced that at the time it was the thing to do and also to think we thought we could get away with it so stupid. These are all quotes from his writing to the judge by the way. So he shouldn't have wrote that shit and then said something else in court because the judge is going to notice. So the judge says they're pretty good at picking up on that. Pick up on little things like that. It's kind of their job hypocrisy and lies. Now that shit they say you sir may fuck off life without parole

for young Spencer. 18 life without 18 in life, you got it. That's it right there. Threw it away. Fucking, he's like, I'm finally a Skid Row song. Yes, finally. Thank you Sebastian Bach for singing my anthem. Fucking A. So he's also sentenced to 65 years for conspiracy

to commit murder and criminal confinement as well. But that's on top of life without parole, so who gives a shit? He says he'll appeal here. Yeah, which I don't know how because he's, he admitted it, he does all of that. Hannah wants to change a venue, citing, quote, public hostility against the defendant,

intense publicity and public outrage over the offense. Well, it's weird that people get mad when you kill your mom for no reason. It's pretty wild. Who's a nice lady who didn't do anything to anybody. Real strange. She argued she can't get a fair trial in the county because her mother was married to a police officer

with the sheriff's department, even though they were divorced the week before. She said that's still gonna fuck her good. Anyway, they say, nah, you're good here, let's just stick around. So Hannah is going to have to plead guilty as well. I mean both of her co-conspirators are putting her right there, you know, there's no way. Murder, conspiracy, and criminal confinement here. The prosecuting attorney during sentencing said Timothy is is a five year old boy who has strong memories of his mother.

Tomorrow those memories will fade and he won't be able to think of the wonderful memories he had of his mother. Now Hannah here said that, quote, I was to knock at the door of the apartment and Mr. Krempitz was, and her voice is trailing off, they had to tell her to speak up a couple of times. He said, she said, and Spencer was going to, um, I don't know the word. He was going to get her. He taped her using duct tape. She said,

Aaron had the gun to threaten her to be quiet, to keep her from screaming. And she said, then Spencer tied her up or taped her up. And she said, from that point on, they, I don't know what order they were going to a bank or to the cornfield I don't know. That's what she said well the judge says there is something I know and that is you young lady may fuck off yeah okay 55 years in prison for the murder of the mother. Sure 30 years for conspiracy to commit murder and 15 years for criminal Confinement while armed with a deadly weapon to be run consecutively. Oh Jesus not concurrently 100 years for Hannah a

hundred years She will be eligible for parole in 2053 at the age of 65 So she's gonna go in Basically never living an adult life outside of prison She goes in at 17 and comes out a senior citizen think about that Unbelievable never like just I'm an adult 17 To 65 security for that she can't't, she's never paid in. I guess not, but I don't know, I don't know what the system, I don't know the rules of social security.

What do you do at that point? They gotta give her something. What does that mean? Back into society and you've got nothing? You can't do anything. I don't know how that goes. They also ruled in addition to 100 years, she's to have no contact with her five year old brother

as well. Oh. Yeah. Aaron also pleads guilty. Let's see, we kinda knew that was coming here. They really, the family really goes hard on him too, like the, which is understandable. It's the shit he said, man, it's crazy.

But I mean, Aaron is the reason why all these people got caught, you know what I mean? So you'd think they'd be a little bit easier on him, but I guess not. My god, he's so him, but I guess not Yeah, he's a fucking dummy so they said that I you know, they have to deal with the Their kids asking where's my aunt and her kids asking or her daughter son asking where the fuck you know where she is

The judge said or I'm sorry the family said prosecutor, Jesus, the whole community is in shock. I think we all are at what such young people had in their minds. It affects the whole community and puts a certain fear in everyone. They bring in Robert, the ex-husband here, and he says, Timothy will never have the mother that every child should have. Nobody could replace that. I just can't fathom why anybody would want to do such a heinous crime in our community. Our community needs to be safe from people like Mr. McDonald. He was easily manipulated into a scheme that could have been stopped.

He could have easily walked away. He went and got the gun. Aaron said, quote, is there anything to say for yourself? He said, quote, I had money on my mind. My mind on my money and my money on my mind is what he had. Yep. What? I just wanted to get my money so I could get more dope, cocaine and marijuana, he said.

He read a statement to the family and said to quote, find it in your hearts to forgive me for the senseless act I was involved in. I would do anything to bring her back. I'm not a murderer. I'm not a bad kid. He said I would do anything, including my, I would give anything, including my own life to turn back the clock. I'm not a bad person. I'm a kid who is at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people. If I hadn't walked out of that cornfield when I did, I would have been dead too, which I don't think so. I don't think at all Spencer

was going to kill him. No, their hero. You you brought the gun man. That's what I'm saying here Now the prosecutor said he was he was in the at the wrong place at the wrong time holding the gun is what the prosecutor bullshit They said also the judge says you could have called it all off. The reason you chose not to do so, greed. That's it. He said, it's hard for you, it's hard to see you as the victim. He said, all the families involved in the murder lost people, but the difference is your family can come visit you in a department of corrections and that's not the case with

their family. You ended up with $900. You were part of that conspiracy. You did it for financial gain. Life is not that cheap. You, sir, may fuck off 62 years in prison. 62, okay. I guess his max that he could have gotten was 65,

but the leading the police to the body is what took three years off. Got three for free. Wow, that's not a lot of credit for that, I don't think. Okay, now 2006, everybody's in prison. An item is on eBay, okay, an auction closes without a bid, but according to the Elkhart County Sheriff's Department, the seller was a teenager and it was county property

he was trying to sell. Okay, now they said that eBay is the one that closed the auction down because they didn't know about ownership an anonymous tip to the sheriff's department website led them to the auction page advertising Elkhart County jail pants worn by the cornfield killer Said I have Spencer's pants The cornfield killer and the preacher's daughter that's some couple so the police concluded the cornfield killer referred to Spencer Who was convicted obviously of that so police didn't have to work hard to find the person he listed his name and address in the fucking Listing it would have been a return address

Jesus Christ the teen noted he was unable to receive electronic payments So the winning bidder had to send a check or money order to this address with this name I don't have a bank account Wow It was a I guess the started at $30 the and the buy it now price was $500 Fucking ridiculous now they checked the records and they said that he had been in jail during the time Spencer was there, but they'd never stayed in the same ward and would not have had contact.

This guy just got an idea. I got pants, he's over there. They probably just stole them. Yeah, that's probably his and he said that, okay. They went to his house. He claimed he received the pants from the county work release center and didn't know he was supposed to return the pants

or pay for them. He goes, I just thought they were my pants. I figured I'd get some idiot to buy them he was supposed to return the pants or pay for him because I just thought they were my pants I figured I'd get him you know get some idiot to buy him he promised to return the clothes but then he didn't and they arrested him James on job nope James Wright is his name of 250 East Bristol Street he's 18 years old and a fucking dummy. That's amazing. That is fucking hilarious. Um, he, they, apparently the jury deliberated for 20 minutes

and that was that. He got, he got convicted of that. Now Spencer's going to appeal saying that his main appeal is that he shouldn't get life without parole because the robbery is separate from the murder. He says that this is amazing because it has to be wild. He says the robbery has been completed, had been completed in a sufficient amount of time

before the murder took place. So the act of murder is outside the course of robbery. Yeah, that's a great point. Like if you're a robber, you rob a bank and then two weeks later you go murder somebody is that robbery? What's the window well if you if you if you held what if you held one of the tellers hostage and then murdered them then? Yes, if there's someone separate now So they said we do not agree with the defendants narrow interpretation of the word while You were on the way to kill her, so you stopped.

That's in the same fucking thing, stupid. It was the same day. It was an hour later. It was in the same act. Yeah, if you ate, you were still full, man. Yeah. Fuck. There's also an intentional killing while lying in wait aggravator, the hiding and all

that kind of shit. They said also he said they didn't properly weigh his mitigating factors of his, you know, a lack of adult criminal convictions been molested and all that kind of shit. And also he has an impaired mental condition. And they said, well, his mental state at the time couldn't be determined. He wouldn't cooperate with psychiatrists. There's no evidence he's of an inferior intellect. As a matter of fact, he's actually smart. He's unhampered by debilitating mental conditions.

Seems fine. He's a dickhead, yeah. Yeah, that's it. I remember we said he was deceptive and glorified his problems and all that kind of shit. They said, keep on keeping on, dickhead, life without. Honestly. Hannah appeals as well.

She says about mitigating factors, saying she was only 18 and didn't have much of a criminal record, even though she was on probation for something small. It looks bad. It looks bad, yeah. The court also notes as an aggravating circumstance that she committed the offense

while under the influence of smoking marijuana, which I don't think really matters, but that's fine. So anyway, also that, because the judge had knows her father and had met her father at something in the conflict of interest all of these people know each other her father knows everybody in this courtroom because he's a cop so he knows lawyers and judges so they said that's a conflict of interest but they it turns out they said it's not a conflict of interest in the end. Aaron appeals as well.

I don't know what the hell he's talking about. His is just the sentence. He said it was too harsh because he improperly considered aggravating and mitigating factors because it did not fit the nature of the crime and his character. They said, you sound like a dickhead. Fuck you, get out of here.

You don't understand, I wanna go home. But I don't like this. I don't like what happened. I only Only got $900 this isn't worth it So that's what happens there January 18th 2015 Spencer kills himself in prison at age 28. He couldn't take it. The only way it's gonna go down You knew that was gonna happen. You knew it. You're not getting the attention you want and all that shit in prison. You'll just get the shit beat out of you for that crap. Nobody cares. And this sucks.

And this sucks. Yep. And so he is dead at prison in prison. July 23rd, 2020, Aaron McDonald dies in prison. Oh, my God. Yeah. His early 30s, like 32 years old. What happened to him? Was he beaten to death or? Don't know. No cause revealed here, we don't know.

So 23rd, 2020, it might have been COVID for Christ's sake. We have no idea. Could've been, yeah. It was all lockdowns and prisons at that point and there was all sorts of diseases fucking flying through that shit. So. That's just common anyway, but yeah.

Either way, he's dead too. What about her? Now Hannah, she's still alive and doing interviews. They're doing interviews about the preacher's daughter in prison and how she's in all these programs and how she's, you know, so much better now. I was influenced by two bad men. They're dead in prison. I need to get out.

Oh yeah. It says there's all these articles or she's in some documentary. In an interview with Investigation Discovery, she said she'd do anything to go back and change what happened. She says her father is her only visitor ever. Really? Only none of the family will talk to her. It comes around.

Wow. Her DOC number is 152679, and she is at the Indiana Women's Prison. And August 31, 2053 is her earliest release date. Barbara is buried at the Napanee, oh no, I'm sorry, the Prairie Street Cemetery in Elkhart. That is where she's buried. And that, everybody!

Wow. That girl may never have left Indiana, James. She may have never left ever. I don't think she ever got out of Indiana. That's it, just from the time. It's just wild that from 17 to 65, you would be like, well. That's a fascinating stretch. I was a minor, now I'm a senior citizen. Okay, I'm coming out. It's just wild that from 17 to 65 you would be like, well, that was a minor, now I'm a senior citizen.

Okay, I'm coming out. It's just so strange. 30s, 40s, 50s, and then half of your 60s. That's wild. That's crazy shit. So there you go, everybody. If you liked that show, please get on whatever app you're listening on.

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