Small Town Murder - #569 - A Stalker To Die For - Geraldine, Montana

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

This week, in Geraldine, Montana, a wild mystery unfolds when a young veterinarian is brutally murdered, and the suspects include girlfriends, ex girlfriends, and a girlfriend’s ex boyfriend, who has been stalking them for weeks. This man stops by in the middle of the night & calls constantly. But will the complete bungling of the crime scene by the police ruin the whole case??Along the way, we find out that you don't want to get caught in a snow storm, in the middle of Montana, that when someone breaks up with you, stalking them usually doesn't help, and that you should never throw out evidence, after you've cleaned it with Formula 409!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In the depths of an Atlanta forest, a clash between activists and authorities ends in tragedy. I'm Matthew Scherr, and on my new podcast, We Came to the Forest, we expose the hidden truths behind a shootout that left one activist dead and countless lives forever changed. Binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest ad-free on Wondery Plus. This week in Geraldine, Montana,

a mystery unfolds when a veterinarian is brutally murdered and the suspects include girlfriends, ex-girlfriends, girlfriends, ex-boyfriends, and others. But will the bungling of the crime scene make it impossible to solve? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Oh yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane, wild, crazy, murderous edition of Small Town Murder.

As you're used to, we have a crazy story for you today, a definite mystery. I mean, this is a, oh, it's a weird one here. We will get to that for sure. But definitely head over to shutupandgivemurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. If you, I'm telling you, if you're listening to this early, you might be able to still get to Pittsburgh on February 7th.

If not, Chicago, St. Louis, St. Louis is almost sold out. Chicago's getting there, that's in May. So get your tickets today for those. And all the ones at the end of the year are selling One very fast. I think Wow and sold out San Diego done San Diego is about sold out. Yeah Irvine You got to get your tickets there if you want to go there DC Philly Yeah, all that Seattle at the more

All those so get in there shut up and give me murder calm get your tickets right now Also get yourself some Patreon. Oh boy. I'm sure you've listened to all the crime in sports episodes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Because you don't have to like sports, you just have to like, I don't know, crime and humor. Fun.

So check that out. And you've listened to all your stupid opinions and you need more and Patreon will provide that this week. What you do is, patreon.com slash crime in sports. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get immediately hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard before, all right there, access to that,

and then you get new ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all, everybody, only $5. And this week, which you're gonna get for crime in sports, we are gonna talk about disasters. We've done industrial disasters, we've done hot air balloon disasters. We're going to do just a bunch of just disasters. Things happening, buildings exploding of crazy things, steel melting people, you name it. We're going to talk about it. Crazy stuff. Then for small town murder, this

is a weird one. We usually do a lot of like debunking. That's kind of a thing that we do of like, you know, dumb shit that people think. This week we are going to do an episode on psychics that actually succeeded in what they were trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. Psychics that found bodies and stuff like that. And I don't know.

The ones that were right. The ones that were right. We'll figure that out. So patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that. And you get a shout out at the end of the show too. Oh yeah. Jimmy will mispronounce your name all to hell but that's okay because he wants to get it right. It's the feeling is there. It's a promise.

That said it is disclaimer time. Oh yeah. This is a comedy show everybody. We're comedians. There also is murder that happens and you might say how do you mix comedy and true crime? easily first of all? Here's one thing we do is we don't make fun of the victims No, or the victims families why James because we're assholes, but but we're not scumbags. See how that works It's pretty easy to do there And we kind of think that the humor aspect of it kind of maybe disarms it a little bit So it's not so creepy and so weird and you know there's plenty of jokes to be made around stupid things it's not

the actual murder that's the funny part so if that sounds good to you wow do you have a good story ahead of you if you think true crime and comedy should never ever ever go together I don't know maybe the show isn't for you but maybe it is either way no complaining later that said I think it's time everybody let's all sit back What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs and let's all shout Let's do this everybody, okay, let's go on a trip shall we we are doing this we're going to Montana this week Oh, yeah to Geraldine, Montana

Geraldine told Geraldine Geraldine and this is in central, Montana. It's about an hour and ten minutes to Great Falls That's the closest this place is the middle of nowhere This is like you don't want to like have your car break down out in this area. You are Screwed really is sparse. It's really sparse. And it's about five hours and 10 minutes to Hot Springs, Montana, which was our last episode

long time ago too. It was 70 episodes ago, 80 episodes ago, episode 490 Hot Tub Horrors. Remember that, the guy in the hot tub with the other, that was a creepy one. Oh yeah, oh yeah. This is in Chateau County Chateau it's French looking area code it's got an EAU at the end of it so it's French

yeah it's hardcore French I assume French trappers did this I don't think the Shoshone speak that way yeah Chateau area code 406 here it was originally created just as a stop for on the Milwaukee Railroad that's the only reason why this is a place and Yeah, it was named for and this happens so often it was named for elm Almira Geraldine Rockefeller. Oh, yeah, who was the wife of William Rockefeller who was the director of the railroad? So they were trying to kiss his ass and they named it after his daughter who was the director of the railroad. So they were trying to kiss his ass

and they named it after his daughter. Kiss everybody's ass. This county, by the way, the entire county only has 5,800 people in it. Hell yeah. The whole county. So this is the middle of nowhere. The county seat is Fort Benton.

The county was established in 1865 as one of the original nine counties of Montana and it was named after Pierre Chateau jr. A fur trader see knew it I knew it was a fur trader who established a trading post that became Fort Benton Which was you know is the county seat here? So the Chateau County is the home to the Chippewa Cree tribe as well and on the Rocky Boy Indian reservation. Rocky Boy. This area contains part of the Lewis and Clark National Forest as well. Okay. So it is a very pretty area if you want if you

want to see land go on forever kind of a thing. So reviews of this town. It's about as much history as America's got to offer. It's got a lot here. Now reviews of this town. It's about as much history as America's got to offer. It's got a lot here. Now reviews of this town, there are zero reviews of this town because there are very few people in this town. But what I found is literally the only establishment reviewable in the area. Because there is no restaurants, there's no anything in this town. I found the Sundown Motel, which is a nearby Stanford, which is another barely populated place a little bit down the road look at this place

Fuck yeah, it is a one story expected to yeah one story in the middle of a field look at that I mean, there's nothing around it for miles and miles and miles That's it. Is that is it several cottages? No, no, no, it's there's I guess there's a couple of cabins out back or whatever But it's just a row of that single row of motel one-story deal there It is it's interesting by the way. Here's a picture of the interior of the room Okay, okay, that is Yeah It's like the county. It's like elk. I mean there. No, there's like elk printed on the bedspread.

That's nice. That's very nice. But yeah, it looks like a jacked up hunting cabin basically. Here are some reviews of this place because they're funny. Five out of five here from Kimberly. My husband and I were driving through Montana from Alaska to Iowa. That's a ride. That's a ride.

Yeah. Wow. That's a ride. That's a ride. Yeah. Wow. That takes a minute. My husband called and booked our room contactless check-in. That's nice. They have some technology at this. You would expect them to give you like a physical key. Right. Like one of those big skeleton key looking things. Yeah, with the room number hanging off it. They sent our room number and check-in code via text Our room was wonderful and cozy the bed and pillows were comfortable and made for a good night's sleep There was coffee and popcorn available. That's nice Microwave refrigerator refrigerator and coffee maker in the room We thoroughly enjoyed our stay and would without a doubt recommend this lovely little place to everyone

I wish there were more places like this along our journey. I wish more people had standards as low as hers. Yeah she's jacked about it. They gave me popcorn sold. That's all it takes. Being honest I've stayed in some pretty nice hotels. Never had popcorn offered. I never. I mean cookies if you stay like a double tree you get those cookies but that's it. Other than that this next next one, five stars, this is crazy. If you ever get caught in a snowstorm between Great Falls and Lewiston, Montana, you know, like we all find ourselves from time to time, Brian's Sundown Motel is the best. It meets all survival needs. That's good. Survival needs, you know, walls and

a ceiling. The the ceiling the low the low ceiling these people have Wow packaged in fantastic attitude and helpfulness they even brought me a care package of food that has lasted me three days seems above and beyond three days of food I just picture some old lady coming out with like here you go giving him like a picnic basket or so three days of three days That is I fucking insane incredible absolutely wild okay, Jessica here three stars Bit pricey for offseason we stopped here during a snowstorm and stayed for the night seems to be a common theme here The room was standard and we were only allowed to use one bed in the room for $5 more.

You were only allowed, I don't understand that. That's correct. Go in your room but only leave that other bed alone. If we have to use, if we have to make both beds tomorrow morning, we're charging. That is wild. So they got a response from the owner. Hello there, thank you for the review. There is new ownership here now and we can honestly say a charge for bed use is an odd

thing. Yeah, it is. We charge for the room, not what is being used inside of it, is what they say. That's good. But how'd you like the three days worth of groceries? Yeah, that's amazing. Oh. That's good. But how'd you like the three days worth of groceries? Yeah, that's amazing. Oh, that's amazing. John gives one star.

No accountability whatsoever from the manager. Plays super nice, but if something isn't working, it's your fault. No question. What'd you break? Your fault. And the owner replies, normally I don't reply to negative reviews, but when all the reviews you have given are negative and your name has never stayed at our motel, my guess this is a fake review or you have the wrong property. It would help everyone if you explained why it's a one star especially since you haven't

stayed with us before and we don't warrant one star reviews. But thank you for trying to hurt small businesses. And don't come for the first time. And I'm not going to make you three, I'll make you one day worth of food tops, not three. Finally, Marvin one star sucked. That's it. Just sucked. There's another review where this lady talks about how she got there and like late in the middle of the night and they had like given her room away and she was texting the manager from like outside the

door and the manager told her nothing more I can do please leave the property it's like there's nothing around here nowhere to go crazy people in this town can do there's no vacancy no bye and then you're just out into the Montana has plenty of vacancy that field is empty knock yourself out look out back if you can see through the snowstorm yeah people in this town population 202 wow and that's just in this area i mean if there's nobody here that's in like ranches that are spread out and farms and things like that there's no real town center or anything kind of awesome it's kind of cool if that's what you're looking for, you know, the middle of nowhere like that. There is 52% male, 48%

female because it's a lot of like ranching type work. Because it's hard. Median age here is 60. Good Christ. Getting old people, holy shit. How much ranching are you doing? It's dying. This ain't gonna last much longer. Man, those kids gotta want to take over It's about 48 percent of the people here are married 26 and a half percent are single with children, which is for a rural place like that. That's Normally not like that race in this town 99.1 percent white 0.9 percent Hispanic. That's it. Nothing else. Yeah, nothing else 86.3% religious. Is that

right? I guess while the snows are falling, you've got to pray to something. You know what I mean? Thank God nobody's here. This is wild. 59.6% are Catholic. Is that right? That's so strange. I mean there's only 202 people, so that could be like five families that are Catholic. That's a lot. Seems like, there's only 202 people, so that could be like five families that are Catholics. But that's a lot. Seems like a lot. Unemployment rate is low here, which there's no people. So yeah, who's looking for a goddamn job? And the median household income also very low here.

Rest of the country right now, the average is about $69,000. Here it is $32,083. That's fixed income, right? That is. So I mean, it has to be. It's gotta be a lot of social security, and3. That's fixed income. That is, I mean it has to be. It's gotta be a lot of social security and because the average age is 60, so that makes sense. Cost of living here, 100 being regular and average in the rest of the country is 78.6, which is not bad.

The housing is the low thing. Housing, median home cost here, $227,100. What? Not too bad, but what you get for that is not too great housing median home cost here $227,100. What? Not too bad, but what you get for that is not too great as we'll talk about in our coming up, if you've, in case we've convinced you, in our Geraldine Montana real estate report.

["The Daily Show Theme"] Average two bedroom rental here is $860. I don't know how many rentals there is in a town like this. It's very affordable. Yeah, somebody's bunkhouse or something. There's no apartment complexes or anything. Here's a trailer on the side of somebody's house. Maybe. Here's a four-bedroom, two-bath, 2,638 square foot.

There's no other way to put it, but it's a shack. It's a four bedroom, two bath, 2,638 square foot. There's no other way to put it, but it's a shack. It's a shit shack. You'd see this and go, oh God, and keep it. Even if you were on E and whatever, you'd be like, I'm taking my chances with the wilderness. I'm going to keep going. You would not stop here. See how these fumes treat me. Yeah.

There's absolutely no way you're not going to be murdered here. There's literally just a big tire sitting in the yard. Oh my. Plywood on the door. It's the interiors a piece of shit. It's really not a good house. 125,000 bucks for this house. I mean, you have to just basically knock it down

and rebuild it. No, no, small lot. Just that. Here is a three bedroom, two bath, 1900 square foot, no, 1902 square foot house. It's a basic house. It's just a little raised ranch. The listing lists it as situated in the outskirts of Geraldine, which is everything.

It offers single-level living and an expansive yard that showcases views of Square Butte Mountain. So there is that they also say While some finishing touches are needed to complete this. Oh It's got some problems here. There is a new flooring and fresh paint 165 grand for that though. Okay, so not too bad. It's fine Single level living if you need if you got if got a walker, this house is for you. Mobility problems? We got you. You got yourself. Not a problem here.

Here's a three-bedroom three-bath tee ball for each and every beehole. It's a two thousand twenty eight square foot. It is on 20 acres. Wow. Yeah, it's nice. They listed as having a beautiful yard that's landscaped with a nice shelter belt windbreak That's how windy it is. Yeah something to keep the wind from knocking you over and an amazing garden pond with goldfish. Oh Cool that property has a well for the house and yard and a cistern for drinking water See you're I don't So if Clint Eastwood rides up on a horse you got him covered for he can water his horse water his horses 574,000 bucks for that which is 20 acres. Yeah, it's a lot of acreage and that's not bad at all

But I mean you are in the middle of you got a sister. You got a sister. Yeah, I don't know either I it looks I feel I picture a big ladle in a small well. He's taken out and sip from it. I have no clue Things to do here. The Chateau County Fair. Sure. Found that. This is interesting. I'm looking for what they have here.

And they say they have carnivals and a carnival and adventure zone, bouncy houses, bumper boats, water slides, all this type of shit. But the main thing they're advertising in big letters with pictures is pig wrestling. Not shitting you. And this isn't, you know, you dress two pigs up in different costumes and give them entrance music and see who wins.

This is people wrestling pigs in the mud. And not nude girls or anything. This is people, not nude women. No tits are out This is crazy. There's just teenagers covered in mud wrestling people wrestling pigs It is Thursday August 15th, and it is $10 for adults and $5 for kids Do you want to watch this tickets are available for pre-purchase? You don't want to sell out not to get to pig ride Imagine if they got real wrestling up here. This place would be packed Watched a boy wrestle a pig last week. So there's two two big fellas going at it's gonna be something

God demolition derby also, I guess I hope the pigs aren't involved in that They're driving the cars Just animal abuse The old trail museum also is something else to do and you can learn about the many histories of the Rocky Mountain Front explore ancient trails dinosaur fossils and exhibits and also grizzly bears large elk waterfowl mal migrations and the unique geology of the Rocky Mountain front local meteor all meteorological phenomena as well as the

color and cultural history of Chateau Montana Teton County and the greater Rocky Mountain Front region. There's all sorts of trails and shit like that. Trail hiker, hunter, angler, scenic driver wanted to explore and learn more about beautiful public lands. They should come here. Find out is what they say here. You can, a local wanting to know more about the rich history of the area, a Montana dinosaur trail explorer. Apparently they have a Montana dinosaur trail, whereas they found a lot of fossils there. Fossils out there, yeah.

So you walk around and go, this is where dinosaurs were. Sure. That's cool. Footprints would prove it. Neat. So crime rate in this town, what we are interested in, you'd figure it would be non-existent because. How could it? There's not even like a town square where somebody vandalize your farm like what else can you do

Knock down your crops. Yeah, but one tagging and all of a sudden it's One person fucking spray paints their name on the side of a cow it's over It's all over one dude professing his love on This here is South Chicago. So Property crime here is only about a quarter under the national average So it's three-quarters of the national average which seems too high and then violent violent crime murder rape robbery And of course assault is I mean just below the national average really? Yeah, I don't know what they're doing here And I don't know how it's happening,

but they're doing something. Okay. And it's fucking weird. That said. Here we go. Let's talk about some murder here. Let's do it. Okay. Let's do this.

All right, let's go back in time a little bit to June of 1996. Sure. All right. So no cell phones yet. I mean, cell phones, if you wanted to have a giant thing. It's tough. It's tough going It's tough. This is pager time right here. This is everybody walking around with a pager and shit. That's great No social media on a pager. It's just oh

Fucking the number of a payphone with 9-1-1 after it. That's Or some fascinating numbers. Oh, yeah, you can spell out boobs and all sorts of stuff. It's fun for three. Yeah Oh, yeah, you can spell out boobs and all sorts of stuff. It's fun for three. Yeah So June of 1996, let's talk about dr. Brian rain our EIN Dr. Brian here. He is born in 1965 Yeah, he is the son of Robert and Shirley rain and he has a couple of sisters here Charlene and Teresa will come into everything later. He's born on Valentine's Day, 1965.

Romantic, yeah. He's Cupid himself here. He's born in Rocky Ford, Colorado, which I'm not sure where that Rocky Ford, do you know that one? No, never heard of it. You're a Colorado guy, and he lived there and in Sugar City, Colorado as well Sugar City Look on your face. They said Sugar City are like nope

404 fucking not found as I got out of you. How's the look on your face search and search it? No, that's got to be some Western slope rifle area shit. There's nothing over there No, it's it has to be. In 75 he moved to Scott City. Colorado? Where the fuck is this man living? It's wild, isn't it? Wow. And graduated from high school.

They have a school there apparently. In 1983 he attended Colby Community College in Kansas. Jesus. Colby Community College in Kansas Jesus Colby Community College in Kansas That's rough for two years and then Kansas State University for two years as well So he started out in Community College and you know worked his way out of me where all those cities are it's got to be all Their towns near the Kansas line. It's got it. It's probably over there Yeah, cuz those is it nobody gives a fuck about that area in Colorado. Once it gets flat, nobody cares anymore.

Once you pass the airport, it may as well be Kansas. Because nobody gives a shit. Once the mountains are over, they're like, you can have all of that. That's garbage land. We don't want that. Nothing east of Denver is even mountainy. No, that's what I mean.

It's all shit flat. The east line of Denver is already flat. We go do shows in Denver and we'll talk and say to people, where are you from? And they're like, oh, about an hour and a half to the southeast. And we're like, what's it like out there? They're like, oh, it's weird. It's terrible. The weather's awful and crazy storms come in and blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, oh shit, that sounds wild. It gets weird out there too. It does. So he then, after Kansas State University, he worked at the Sork Veterinary Clinic in Scott City. He's a vet, not like a human doctor. Animal doctor here. Maybe they use him to check those pigs after they're done wrestling. Yeah.

I'm sure they're fit for fighting. He could probably just check everybody, I think. It's fine. You know he knows so in 1994 he moved to Geraldine, Montana Where he and his sister Charlene owned and operated Prairie's Edge Veterinary Services, and they also have a Auxiliary office in Denton, Montana as well. Okay, yeah. So they have all this going on here. So at this point, not a bad life.

He's a 30-year-old veterinarian. Yeah. I feel like you're gonna do very well with the ladies if you're a 30-year-old veterinarian. I care for the puppies and, you know, oh man, that's a, this guy's gonna do well up here. But he goes to the middle of nowhere here and he ends up living in a he rents a pretty isolated trailer near Geraldine Which doesn't really fit in with the jet-setting lifestyle of the rest of them. I'm 30. I'm a vet I'm now he's like yeah come to my rural trailer, huh? Yeah, I mean he must be used to this rural life that must be he's a rural. Yeah

I mean he must be used to this rural life that must be he's a rural. Yeah through and through He rented a trailer house located on a property owned by Richard and Marlene Prostman Richard Prostman Yeah, dick prostate man. That's all I could say I saw that I first I misread it as prostate man And then I saw Richard and I'm like that is crazy. He's dick dick prostate man And the woman who the wife of this combo here, Marlene, helped Brian organize the clinic and get that set up and later became his office manager. Okay, okay. So people like him, obviously,

if he gets people to do that. He opened up, the business started to grow and then he opened up the satellite office in Denton, Montana. And yeah, things are unfolding for this guy. It's working. He's certainly getting it going, yeah. It's all working.

He's had some relationships, obviously. Like I said, he's got to be popular with the ladies here. One woman, Jodie Lee, she said that she had a close relationship with him all throughout 94 and 95. And the relationship became romantic in early 1996 Okay, okay She also said though that she suspected while they were together that he was dating another woman at this during this time

I don't know how suspected there's 200 people here go to the bar And if he shows up with her you there it is like yeah There's not it would be so hard to sneak around in a town of 200 people She's got suspicions though James. She's a very suspicious gal Wild their relationship started to deteriorate by May of 1996 and apparently they had a they planned a last-minute trip to Yellowstone and She said that Brian called her and canceled her at the canceled it at the last minute 1996 and apparently they had a they planned a last-minute trip to Yellowstone and She said that Brian called her and canceled her at the canceled it at the last minute Like when he was supposed to come pick her up. He's like now we can't we're not going never mind

So then she was like, yeah, there's got to be somebody else here. So she went on the trip without him. Oh Look at that. I don't need you to go to Yellowstone All right Look at that. I don't need you to go to Yellowstone Alright choice, but alright fuck it. Yeah, go went by herself and while on the way back to town from Yellowstone She stopped in Gardiner and was talking to somebody and got offered a job and decided to take it Wow, well, how weird is that? You got a figure though If you're if you go on a trip that you're supposed to take your other person on and they don't go and then something like that happens that changes your life, you gotta accept it.

You gotta accept it. Just on the weirdness of who would have thought I would stop for gas here or stop at this rest stop. That's just fate my friend. It's very weird and also you're stopping at a rest stop and someone offers you a job, has that ever happened to anybody out there in the world? so then she she said after that she heard that Brian was dating another woman and You know this was just like she takes the job and moves to Gardner and then starts hearing that he's like with another woman

He's like she's like okay. That's like, she's like, okay, that's what was going on there. I was right. That's right. So her sister, Jennifer, Lee's sister Jennifer, basically told everyone that she could tell that he was a womanizer. He's a womanizer this one. He had two girlfriends.

Or he's playing the field. He's a 30 year old vet. You kidding me? He's got a puppy under each fucking arm walking around. Chicks are flocking to him. He's got a big heart. He takes care of sick animals. Perhaps he's got such a big heart he just didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Also maybe she needed her parvo shot. We don't know. We have no idea what her needs are. A few miles from the glass spires of Midtown Atlanta lies the South River Forest.

In 2021 and 2022, the woods became a home to activists from all over the country, who gathered to stop the nearby construction of a massive new police training facility, nicknamed Cop City. At approximately nine o'clock this morning, as law enforcement was moving through various sectors of the property, an individual, without warning, shot a Georgia State Patrol trooper. This is We Came to the Forest, a story about resistance.

The abolitionist mission isn't done until every prison is empty and shut down. Love and fellowship. It was probably the happiest I've ever been in my life. And the lengths will go to protect the things we hold closest to our hearts. Follow We Came to the Forest on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of We Came to the Forest early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. In the 1980s, a rose swept the country.

Hey Mike, I really like this white Zinfandel. Well good, good. Now put it down, we're gonna try another one. White Zin became America's top-selling wine. But most don't know that this sweet drink has a sour history. What began in 1986 with counterfeit bottles. A big fraud, a

multi-million dollar fraud, sent investigators chasing one of the most powerful families in the business, the Lachartes. But the closer the feds got to them, the more dangerous things became. It's a story of deceit, threats, you touch my kids I will kill you. And murder. With a.22 caliber bullet to the head. What started with a scheme to mislabel wine spilled into a blood-soaked battle for succession. Welcome to Blood Vines. You can binge listen to Blood Vines exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. So this woman's sister who calls him a womanizer here said she got a call from a stranger, a man. They don't know each other personally, never met before. She never heard of this guy, but he called to try to track down contact information to discuss something with Brian. The thing he wanted to discuss with Brian was the fact that Brian, in his estimation, this man's, was fucking his girlfriend.

That's a big thing to sort out. That's, you gotta sort that out. So, didn't like that. So now this woman who's been calling him a womanizer is like, see, I told you, yeah, womanizer, that guy. So now this woman who's been calling him a womanizer is like see I told you yeah womanizer that guy So now these two are gossiping the sister of Brian's ex-girlfriend and the apparently current slash ex-boyfriend of his current girlfriend are now Gossiping about the girl. He's just fucking one of the yeah, who knows?

So this sister said that she told this guy that Brian dated at least three women in a short amount of time. He's a womanizer and she does not like how he treats women. Just dropping them willy nilly. He's not beating them up or doing anything. Single and shit. They're just single, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

This is just kind of the single life. She later said that she felt guilty for making those statements because she said, you know Because this is Montana and they're like, you know, she said quote the opinion was quote not mine to give Yeah, she's like, yeah. Hey, not for nothing is what she just said That's the Montana version of you know, none of my fucking business, but let me tell you I stuck my nose where it doesn't belong yeah So this lady in question that this man calling the sister complaining about is a lady named and wish men Yes, yes, it is if you if you switch your h If you move the h over to where you are it's the same letters. We can make wissman out of it

So that's pretty fucking funny. We can make Wisman out of it. Making it wish, yep. That's pretty fucking funny. It's you with a speech impediment. Well, it's what everybody fucking called me. I'm Jimmy Wisman. Yeah. My entire fucking childhood. It's better than, whoa, I don't even know how to say it.

How do you say it? What the hell is your last name? Yeah, I got Wishman, I got Weissman. I never, nobody ever says Wishman. My favorite mispronunciation was a gym teacher who did it for a year and a half and called me Patraglio for a year and a half. Year and a half. I'm like, not my name.

Thank you. Patraglio. Alright, I was just laughing shrug. I'm like, whatever. So my friends would be like hey Patraglio They're calling me that's fun now And Wishman she's born in 1974 so she's about nine years younger than Brian She her family owns a farm near Geraldine

So on the outskirts of Geraldine everything is outskirts of Geraldine because there is no real Geraldine so apparently sometime in 1996 here in May, they spent, Ann and Brian spent an evening together talking, and at the end of the night, after a night of just saying and spilling their guts to each other, they decided that they're gonna talk to each other again later in the week. And that's how this started. This talking is so good, I'll talk to you later. So this is the best talking we've had in a while. So they talked a lot about her

cat probably too, but still it's a good talk. So this all started, who's the guy she's with now that's calling to complain that she's having sex with Brian is a man named Thomas Jeresky. Jeresky, Jeresky, J-A-R-A-C-Z-E-S-K-I. Whoa. Jeresky, I'm going to say. Don't look at me. Jeresky, yeah, something.

Thomas. Jeresky. Let's go Thomas on him. Tommy J. Tommy J. Tommy J. Tommy J was born in 1973, so he's right around Ann's age, and they got together when Ann was just barely 18 years old, and he was 19 or whatever.

That's when they started hooking up in 1992. So this relationship has been going on a while before Brian comes into the picture here It's you know four years now his family the Tom the Thomas family will just say the direct Jurecki's Who they leased a farm in the Geraldine area so same thing he grew up on a farm in the area So did she and they both attended college in Bozeman And that's how they met each other and started dating or in Bozeman, and that's how they met each other and started dating, or they knew each other,

but that's how they started dating, was then. Now, he's got a brother named Randy, Jureski or whatever the fuck it is, and they lived in, they live on the farm, but in separate houses in the farm. There's separate buildings, tons of outbuildings, they live in two different ones, so they don't, you know, see each other's comings and goings exactly that'll come in handy

later so December 1995 after you know about three years of being together and and Thomas here moved into an apartment together in Great Falls an hour and ten minutes away or whatever but the problem is as soon as they move in together he really really steps up his jealousy a lot yeah Thomas starts getting real possessive of her and disapproved of any associations with other men basically no talking other guys and he didn't like it when she went out with her friends either you know controlling obviously I get the other men thing you know that could be when she went out with her friends either. Oh boy. You know, controlling. Obviously. I get the other men thing, you know,

that could be like, hey, who's that guy? Or, you know, go tell your wife you have a ton of women friends and they'll really be thrilled with you for that. So that's just asking questions, but going out with her friends, what do you mean a fucking, don't be an asshole like that.

Let her be out. Let her go out. She's just, if you don't let her go out or you make her feel weird about it, she's just gonna wanna fucking go out and and even more so you're not helping your situation Yeah, you're gonna force a dick down her throat. You better knock it off forcing dick guy. Don't do it So according to Anne Thomas had a pretty good temper on him and would punch a wall or throw things around when he was angry He's acting sounds great. Sounds like a lovely gentleman here. Yeah, I'm a chore

when he was angry exactly sounds great sounds like a lovely gentleman here immature as well as he doesn't apparently hit her but he does punch holes and walls and throw shit around which is not great either obviously that's pretty simple it's not the same thing it's on the road to it's certainly yeah yeah certainly coming it's on the road to here for sure you know what I mean yeah yeah everybody's everybody's had a spectacular event where they punched something. Yeah, kick a fucking door or some shit, but not all the time. This is a spectacle yourself. Yeah, your house is in Swiss cheese. If you've got Swiss cheese holes all over, you've got some anger issues, man. Yeah, absolutely.

If you go in and see lots of holes in the drywall you go boy bad things have happened here so June 2nd 1996 that's when all of this is going down because late May is when Thomas called the other lady's sister to complain about Dr. Brian fucking his girlfriend. So June 2nd 1996 This is after and and Brian have had their chat all night and they want to talk again That was earlier in the week. So Anne calls Brian rain and leaves a message for him leaves on the answering machine at the time and

So Brian returned the call. Yeah and left a message for her because she wasn't home problem is she lives with Thomas And this isn't cell phone days. This is an answering machine with a blinking light in the middle of the living room and whoever presses play is gonna hear it. With a tiny little tape in there. Tiny little tape and a little blinky light. Tiny little tape of evidence. Thomas got home before she did.

Shit. Like anybody would back in the day, walked up to the answering machine, hit the play button, and hears the voice of a guy saying, hey, Anne, can't wait to hang out again. And yeah, like, you know, all that shit. So he is fucking pissed. Which anybody would be a little pissed at that. That's not even, that's not out of the realm of normal for being pissed at.

Like I said, reverse that around and, you know, have your girlfriend or wife find that. It's not good. Sure, but that's not info for a wall puncher to hear. No, no, no. This is definitely, you're going to make somebody who does drywalls going to profit from this. Somebody's about to get another job. For sure. So, Thomas knew where Anne was, so he called her up and asked her, quote, what the hell's

going on? Yeah, why is this guy calling? What the fuck? So she said this guy Brian asked me out. So Thomas said that at that moment he said I knew right then she must have cheated on me. Oh, that was it. He jumped right to it.

Thomas called Brian now because he has his number because ninety six is caller id so he knows the number he calls brian here and leaves a message for him saying quote i don't know what your intentions are but they're gonna stop got your message got your message called my house too thanks for calling fuck here's my call so the next day and drove out to Great Falls to meet with Thomas and Thomas said listen Whatever happens happens. Whatever has been passed in the past. I am gonna change. I'm a changed man. Oh I am the one for you Just love me and don't go out with this other guy and everything's gonna be better The walls are gonna be my wall punching days are in my past walls will be pristine from now on Everything is gonna be better. The walls are gonna be. My wall punching days are in my past. Walls will be pristine from now on.

Everything is gonna be fine, I swear. So she said, he said, I don't wanna break up. I wanna make this work. So the next day, she broke up with him. She broke up with Thomas, not Brian. So this is a four and a half year relationship now. Yeah, so this is a four and a half year relationship now. Yeah done so

She immediately started hanging out with Brian and I mean to her credit. She broke up with the guy It's not like she was like oh, okay, and then you know let him on and all that she said no I like this guy broken up moving on that's that you guys are fucking 23 or whatever. Yeah, what are you talking? You know yeah, that's what happens So yeah, she breaks up with him now Thomas's sister Sandy three or whatever. Yeah. What are you talking about? Yeah. That's what happens. So, yeah, she breaks up with him. Now Thomas's sister, Sandy J., she was asked how Thomas was feeling after the breakup. And she said, he said he just keeps thinking it's a nightmare and he thought that they

had a good relationship. I don't know what happened. I thought everything was great. I thought everything was great thought everything was great He said he realized that he probably should have done more with Anne and that he would like to take her to Chicago to see Her family and all that good stuff and she also said he just kept saying he was gonna give her her space and maybe she'd come around Yeah, that's it. It's all you can do. He said I thought they had a good relationship By you know, I should have done the things she wanted to do. I wish I wish I had the chance I'd do it now I take her to see her family and do all that kind of thing. But so that that's a healthy reaction

Yeah, this is what I've done wrong. What have I done to cause this? Okay, this this a B and C and Okay, maybe she'll come around if not not, I don't know. Now, later on though, Sandy says, the sister Sandy says that she describes a conversation that Thomas had with his mother while Sandy was present. His mother's name is Dorothy, and this is about a week after he and Anne broke up here. And she says, and I quote, yeah, and after they, Anne and Tom had broke up, he had gone home, and I quote yeah and after they and and Tom had broke up

He had gone home and I just think within the first week of them breaking up and uh mom was cooking hamburgers for supper And tom just went to his bedroom and on his way back to the bedroom He asked mom if she had a minute that they could talk And and then he told her he just couldn't handle it and he said he felt like doing himself in And mom said oh no, don't do that, you know, and he was just crying really hard and by the end of the talk He was feeling a lot better He had no one to talk to about this Yeah, he internalized a lot of grief and didn't let it out

He needed to get a good cry out and had nobody that's what it was So he went to mom and did it. So that's, mom will always listen to you, so that's good. So Dorothy and the sister both said that Thomas was crying and very upset and that the mother told him and the sister too told him that he should probably maybe try to get professional help. Like, you really seem to be in a funk here. Yeah, maybe talk to somebody a couple times

Maybe they have some tricks of the tools for you to be able to get over this type of shit So he considers that and then obviously doesn't do anything. No, no, no, that's that's the healthy thing to do. We're not doing that I am gonna stew in my room and punch holes in the wall though so and Also talks about his breakup, the reaction here. She received a phone call and a letter from him shortly after they broke up. And here's a quote from her about those two things.

Quote, then he had wrote me a very long letter before, like a 25 page letter. What? And This is handwritten Wow That's a manuscript. That's a that's a novella at that point Yeah, you you could have a structure in an arc in a story in that shit You man, there's gotta be a lot of Shakespeare play shorter than that shit. Yeah It just keeps going Tom really sad. My mama says I should get it. Yeah, dr

Seuss taught many lessons in way less Jesus way less time than that. No shit She said this was right after we broke up and went on and on about one about on and on and on about our relationship and how he wanted us to get back together and Get married and have kids and do all this stuff Yeah and he was told me that I should save the letter and not do anything with it and I asked because he might need to make and I asked because he might need to make copies and he's

Cuz that kind of I it didn't make sense to me, and he goes, well, if I go to counseling, I'm, the counselor might need to have a copy of it and read it to see what's wrong with me or something like that. So this is like a, yeah, he's written a manifesto, essentially, and he's like, I might need to take this to a therapist, probably. He should have saved the letter

and just brought it to a therapist. Cut out the middle man here of her. Yeah, she doesn't need this at all So and I just said okay fine, whatever and I said well that that was the night That he was very upset and talking about killing himself and I just said well, maybe you should go talk to somebody now Maybe you need you know, you know maybe you need to go see a counselor right now. And because he'd talk and he'd be crying. And then I heard his dad knock on the door and he goes, yes, I'm on the telephone in a very normal voice. And then he'd start talking to me and he was crying and upset. So yeah, he cleared himself. No,

I'm good, dad. Great. Then back to her in a weepy which people do people Yeah, I mean he doesn't want dad to hear it Yeah, especially if you're like a Montana farmhand and your dad like you don't want him to fucking he's gonna come in here Beat the shit out of you. Probably. What are you doing? Get out there and shoe a horse or something Jesus Christ calling you names and shit. So God forbid so Thomas isn't taking this well at all Let's just be realistic here. He's not you names and shit, so God forbid. So Thomas isn't taking this well at all. Let's just be realistic here. He's not taking it well. No, he's, I mean.

He's done healthy things so far. Yeah. He tried to get it back. I mean, he's doing nothing outwardly that's going to hurt his reputation. He's just doing it for the family. He's just, yeah, he's just sad and telling people. Everyone's thinking he's just gonna kinda, it'll all work itself out.

He's a sad fuck right now. He'll punch himself out, yeah, and he's gonna be tired and then that's that. He'll meet somebody else. Soon as he finds some other chick, he's gonna be fine. He's gonna find a country song that's gonna speak to that heart and he's gonna play it 3,000 times and off he goes. And then find a girl with some nice boobs. That's what he's gonna speak to that heart and he's gonna play it 3,000 times and off he goes.

And then find a girl with some nice boobs. That's what he's gonna do. Who knows that song? So during the month, during this June month, he makes numerous phone calls to Anne, to her family. And when I say her family, I mean her mother, her brother, her father, sister, everybody. And her friends even.

All of this to try to reestablish a relationship. He's just, it's crazy. So here's a rundown of some of these here and kind of what Thomas is up to. June 4th, 1996, Thomas quits his job in Great Falls. So he is done done. Like he is, he's imploding this whole whole. Yeah. That's what it is. Everything reminds me of. He was living in Great Falls with her. So now he's going back home and he returns to the family farm in Geraldine. So the farm is seven to 10 miles by the way

from Brian Dr. Brian's trailer. It's in the area of there on June 4th 1996 Thomas called up a woman named Trish Trish Jude min who is a close friend of Anne's and He calls her up just to see if Anne has talked about their relationship with her. Oh No, she's way too busy talking about this new guy's dick boy. She is excited about it So wow about it. So, wow, Thomas believed that it was this woman Trish who introduced Anne to Dr. Brian. So he wants to kind of know shit. She, this woman said yes she got a call from Thomas who asked about their relationship. She later said Trish said I did know more about what was going on with Anne and Brian than I told Tom that I knew,

but I didn't want to create more of a problem than the words already was. I didn't think it was smart to do that. Yeah, especially you're not gonna get in the middle of it. You go, I don't know, oh shit, I don't know anything about it, yeah. No clue. So Thomas made a phone call to Heather Buck,

who was another close friend of Ann, who was living in the state of Washington at the time. He's calling long distance. He's paying for this. Exorbitant amounts of money at the time. So this lady, Heather Buck said that Thomas called her and asked numerous questions about Brian and Anne's relationship. She said she told Thomas that Brian had dated other girls around Geraldine and he had used them. Um, that's what she was, that's what Thomas is telling the friend. Like this guy's a womanizer. I talked to his, you know,

ex's sister and she said womanizer. She did. He dated all these girls around Geraldine and had used them. And it's not that he's jealous. See, he's just concerned that Dr. Brian is using jealous see he's just concerned that Dr.. Bryan is using and and he's very concerned for an as well-being Yes using her for sex which she is happy to take They're using each other she used me I used her she used me, but neither one cared. We were getting our share. We're working on their night moves.

Jimmy, what do you want from me? What am I supposed to do with that? That 60 Chevy's mad comfortable back there. That's what I mean. I feel like this is an appropriate environment for that song. They're certainly night moving. They're night moving like a motherfucker. So that's what happened.

This woman, Heather Buck, described the conversation as quite bizarre. And she said she could not understand why Tom was calling her since they weren't friends. Literally, that was the reason. Can you call her and talk some sense into her? She's being used. It's not like they all hung out as a group and you know, they all, she barely knew this guy was like, I don't fucking know you. I don't care. I heard you know her. If you could keep her from being used, I'd appreciate it. If you could completely dismiss your loyalty to a long time friend and transfer

it to a stranger, maybe do some stuff for me. Wow. So apparently after the phone call was over, they never spoke again. He didn't call back or bother, But Thomas also called Anne's sister, Marie, who lived in Illinois. Again, this is costing him money. And he just quit his job. The man doesn't have any money. He doesn't have long distance money.

He's got no LD funds at this point in time. None. So remember what a big deal a long distance call was? Pre cell phones and it was just all everything is included in everything. When my family, I mean we were living here in Arizona. My grandparents were living in Colorado. My mom would call them like once a month

and she'd be like, we gotta make it quick, but here goes Jimmy. Oh yeah. I'd be like, hi grandma, how are you? And then my mom would be. Hurry up, off, off, off. This is costing me money, it's your sister's turn. Dude, I told you about. Grandma's sister's turn. My grandmother with the 10-10-2-20, at 20 minutes when it would go to another dollar,

she would be like, oh, okay, I'm going to go now. She'd start getting panicky. I'd be like, oh, how are you, Jimmy? I'm doing all right. How tall are you now? I think 4'8". Great to talk to you. All right, bye.

She hangs up the phone. Well, I found out this is going on Jimmy's for eight the phone for too long so Jimmy 16 for eight for hey, I think I think he's not growing cuz mom doesn't have any money Seems pretty sad there oh God so yeah, she this is fucking hilarious. So he calls Marie. Marie said yes, she did receive a call from Thomas in June. This is about two weeks after the breakup.

Marie, the sister, said she was surprised by the call because again, not like they talked on their own all the time here. She said Thomas poured his heart out to her. Oh Jesus. Stop pouring your heart out to people. Oh, Jesus. Stop pouring your heart out to people. Oh, how it bears. Good God, he's like, this is crazy.

He's like a fucking John Cusack in a John Hughes movie. Like, this is wild. It's just so painful when you show how vulnerable you are. And then, not only does it not turn her on, it does the opposite. It does the opposite. She gets the ick and never wants to see you again. No and this lady, Anne's just gonna get calls from her friends and family going this guy is pathetic.

He just keeps calling and calling. That's not gonna help. Hey Anne, this guy called, yeah he called me too. Is he crying to you too? He sure was. He was. He told the sister that Brian is older and a womanizer. He's older than her and using her. Don't you know it? Taking advantage of her. Now she said, well, I don't know this guy very well, and neither does she.

And he said, well, I'm concerned for her welfare. And the sister indicated, Thomas told her he'd been in her house and read her diary since then oh Tommy why would you tell her sister that number one? I was like I know for a fact yeah I also broke into her house and read her private shit Yeah So Marie the sister said that Thomas told her that he had been by Brian's house late at

night and found her vehicle there. He's like, I know because Marie's like, you don't even know if they're seeing each other. You have no idea what's going on. He's like, I do too. I broke in. I read her fucking diary. Then I drive past his house at two in the morning and guess whose car's outside. Oh my God.

Now who's crazy? See, confessing it's not me. I'm not the crazy one. I'm the criminal. I'm a criminal. So according to Marie, Thomas told her that Rain and Wis- Wiseman, I'm just kidding. That Ann and Brian were sleeping.

I've said Wiseman way more in my life than Wishman, so it's gonna come out like that. We're sleeping together. He's like, they're sleeping together. Yeah, like adults? Who cares? This is not my concern, who my sister fucks. So Marie said that Thomas told her he tried everything

and he didn't know what else to do. Marie's like, I don't know, it's not me and I live in Illinois, I don't care. And you're scaring me with your crimes. Yeah, this is crazy, cause Thomas is still calling Anne. He called her on June 5th. And she told him she needed her space and asked him to leave her alone for a while

and that she wasn't going to change her mind overnight. She's buying time. That's what that is. Maybe in two weeks, he'll find somebody else and move on. So Ann told Thomas that their breakup, she said this isn't a sudden thing. This has nothing to do with Brian. This has been coming for a long time And these are just the events that pushed it over the cliff. That's all it is. So June 6th

1996 According to here Thomas and then Anne as well He called her in Geraldine where she was staying with her family and asked her to come to Great Falls for the weekend so they could spend some time together. Which the day before he tells she tells you leave me alone give me space I don't want to be with you I haven't wanted to be with you for a long time blah blah blah the next day he goes let's go away for the weekend what do you say? No she said she's not gonna do it not happening and That's that and he also called her on Friday, June 7th and said how about that weekend? And she said still no stupid. I will be

Knee deep and other been veterinary and penis by then I am NOT won't be there Yeah, so Saturday morning June 8th. He calls her again this is every day now he's calling her since they broke up and he calls her and Said that he was dying to see her. I'm dying to see you. I want to see you so bad So they talked on the phone for a couple hours apparently And he kept saying that I want to come see you I want to see her and see you and she said I don't want to see you it's too soon I told you to give me some space to call me every day. So he said all right all right you don't want to see me you want your space okay I'll give you I'll give you your space and then he showed up at her house.

So this is not working he showed up at the Wishman farm in Geraldine as Anne was getting ready to go to a dance in Geraldine. I assume of the square variety. I can only imagine. I can only imagine. I'm not sure. It wasn't like no diggity playing in the background. I doubt. Try to think it was out 96. It was either line or square. I'm sure of it. One of the two. Yeah, there you go. Oh, they were probably still achy breaky heartin' up there. It's about three years late, but shit takes a long time to get to Montana. I just think it gets there last.

That Billy Ray boy, handsome feller. So he shows up with a present for her, he said. I got a present for you. He said, let's go for a drive and have a drink. And she said, no. Let's do some drinkin' and drivin'. That's what he said, let's go for a drive and have a drink. And she said, no. Let's do some drinking and driving. That's what he said. Let's go. Let's go for a drive and then get a drink. So he told her, she said no. And he said, he wanted to go to, I want to go to town with you. Oh, okay. Okay. I want to go to town. So Ann said that Thomas had brought a bottle of liquor with him. And when she indicated finally that he realized she was not going to go for a drive with him, he just started

drinking right there at the house. Just in the yard. Start without you. So Anne asked him, could you please not drink here? Because I don't like, what are we doing? I'm trying to make you jealous. See? I got my lips on it. make you jealous say

Oh, look at that she likes it too And then he got upset and took off. Okay. All right, he left So then and called Trish Judeman her friend from before that he called who was bartending in Geraldine and Told her that Thomas was upset and he's drinking and if he comes to town He comes on into town you go ahead and let Brian know to look out for him These people need cell phones badly Yeah, I mean given messages through the bartender and I'd love to say that it's small town and specific It's not just 1996. Yeah, this Yeah, this is just what it is, man. You had to leave, you had to wonder where someone was,

know their number, try to find them, and if they're not there, leave a message to, hey, you know. And people would actually deliver them too, because it was an essential part of communication back then. So, June 15th, 1996, about a week goes by. Thomas encounters Anne in Geraldine, runs into her, I'm sure by pure accident obviously. So Thomas somehow I guess in person I don't know he's a little more persuasive he gets Anne to go for a ride in his truck

so they could talk. Just come for a ride. That's all I'm asking. Come for a ride. Eventually you got a cave just be like I'm asking. Come for a ride. Eventually you got a cave just be like, I'm going to have to sit him down and tell him no. He's not getting it. So maybe she thinks maybe if a once and for all if I can get it across to him, whatever. So she initially said no, but then figured that she'd go hang out with him, get it over with literally said I'll get it over with.

And then she thought maybe he'll leave me alone after that. Maybe if I give him this little bit he'll go okay fine so as they're driving around he then drives out of town toward the middle of nowhere and starts to really press on her to get back together she and he's accusing her of you're always just looking for somebody else to sleep with that's what he keeps saying to her you're always just looking so she got to sleep with that's what he keeps saying to her you're always just looking so she got angry and said take me the fuck back to Geraldine and he said no not gonna do it here so she tried to jump from the moving truck oh it was that bad it's that

best she's like I am in the fuck out of here take me back no take no, take me back, no. And she said, all right, fuck you. I'm jumping out of the truck. And it will not be, she won't be told what to do. She won't be tethered, no. No, she won't be. She's gonna do what she wants to do. In the 1980s, a rose swept the country. Hey Mike, I really like this white Zinfandel.

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From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace from law and crime this is the rise and fall of getting listen to the rise and fall of getting exclusively with one 3 plus. So he grabbed her and held her from jumping out and then gunned it went even faster don't do that you want to jump out it's going to hurt let me tell you some of the 70 it's going to be some. So he kept pressing her about getting back together and according to him she just would not give in at all. Just which is weird you're holding her hostage right

now while going 75 miles a fucking hour. Weird. If same conversations weren't gonna do it this isn't gonna do it. If can I buy you a drink won't do it. Right. Yeah, if you're gonna jump, you're gonna die is not the way to get it done. Somebody not accepting a free drink is a certain go fuck yourself. They are not interested. Just move on. So he eventually said, okay, fine, and turned around. He eventually, she was like a stone wall and he was like, well, this isn't working. So he turned around and went back to Geraldine

and dropped her off. She told everybody when she got back, she didn't feel safe the way he was acting. She didn't wanna be alone that night either because she thought he would come back. So she asked Brian if she could stay at his place that night. See what you did there, Thomas?

He drove her right into his arms. You might as well have inserted his penis into her. Like what you did there Thomas? You might as well have inserted his penis into her like it's that. Guide it. You might as well have said hold on guys I got this don't worry about it there you go. You should have. You brought the astroglide man. Like the third in a porn like it's. You brought baby oil to a ditty party. Knock it off. That's what happened, man. So June 16th, 1996, 1.30 in the morning. Now it's gonna get out of regular daytime hours here. Now it's criminal shit.

Crime time. Totally, Thomas is moving into night watchman hours here. He's got a different thing going on. It's crime o'clock. Crime o'clock here, 1.30. Totally Thomas is moving into night watchman hours here. He's got a different thing going on the clock Try the clock here 130 so Thomas Figured out that no one was home at the Wishman farm Nobody there and he went into her house and went into her bedroom And this isn't the apartment they shared or where this is her family's home. This is breaking and entering. This is burglary

Yeah, sure. It's her bedroom, but it's's her family It's her parents place. That's fucking weird. That's that's what I mean This is great and some farmer dad's not gonna pop out with a shotgun either is pretty pretty ballsy So this is when he searched around and found her diary again because he had read it when they were in the house together But now they're here. Let's see if she counted the fucking veins on his cock. Yeah. How good his dick is. I want to hear about it. And in this it's just her talking about how great Brian is. Ah! Not good.

God damn it. Oh man, in there she, he read that she had quote, met the man of her dreams, Brian. And it's not and not not only that she couldn't wait and wanted to spend the rest of her life with him he's like oh my god and she also wrote that she did not want anything to do with Thomas and also she didn't want Thomas to find out that she was so into Brian because she was afraid of what he might do to himself so I'm gonna write it all down Wow holy shit so that's at 1 30 a.m. by 3 22 a.m.

he's calling Brian's house and asking for her in the 322 a.m. Morning. Oh my God. So Brian told him that Anne wasn't there. So Thomas then called Anne's apartment, okay, the one in Great Falls, and she didn't answer the phone there either. So Thomas then said, well, I can't let this just fucking sit in the middle of the night, gets in his truck and drives to Brian's trailer to speak to Brian and ask him if and is there dude Stop doing all of this. He needs a friend is what he does not a mom

Yeah, not a sister not a brother. He needs a buddy. That's gonna go, bro What the fuck are you doing man? Yeah, fuck that shit No, hell no. I know this girl. She's got lots of friends. You don't need this. This is fun. Yo, bro You're crazy. You look crazy. You know that right? He needs more than one to say it though Believe him need four guys around you Just fucking pinballing you with insults. That's what you need Just fucking pinballing you with insults. That's what you need. Maybe some mockery, some derision. That way you go, okay fine. You had a friend like this, didn't you?

Oh, I'm that friend. No, I mean, you had a friend that did this. Driving to Oz. Oh yeah. Yes! Yes! I'm the guy, for some reason I'm the guy that everyone tells everything to. I don't know why. Since I was a small child they tell me all of their personal bullshit I've had friends of mine show up knocking at my door four o'clock in the morning with tears flying down their eyes I'm like what the fuck are you doing and they're

telling me all this shit about their girl I don't want to know this I have a friend that I was like the fourth call in in cuz everybody was like dude No, so you finally called me. It was like would you go over to her? I was like no not going He was well at least go over and get my click DVD. I was like an Adams your DVD Your click Well you there grab my copy of Spanglish too if you could. What are you talking about? At least you have Jack and Joe's who bro?

What are you doing? Oh my god. That's the craziest request ever. Go over there, fucking look around, grab my copy of 50 First Dates and fucking jet bro, come back. He literally told me I don't want her to watch it man. Grab my copy of 50 first dates and fucking jet. Oh come back He literally told me I don't want her to watch it man. Oh my god Like as soon as you walked out. She was like, haha. I got his click DVD. I sure she already threw that

She frisbee that shit across the parking lot of the apartment complex immediately I've that's the greatest fucking dumbest thing I've ever heard of my life Holy shit click DVD oh God so Click DVD. Click DVD. Oh God. So Thomas shows up looking for his click DVD at Brian's house. Doc's on the door, Brian tells him, she ain't here bro. And her car's not there either. So you kind of knew that to begin with.

Yeah, when you pulled up you didn't see her car, did you? So Thomas goes, okay, and then leaves. I hope that Brian was like, and fuck off, by the way. And don't come back. Don't come back here, Jesus Christ. So I will treat you like a horse with a broken leg and put you down. How's this thing, though?

What if he is a womanizer and that woman's not there, but another one is? Another chick's there. What the fuck, dude? Get out of here. You're fucking up my life. Cramping my style. I'm drying out over here, come on.

So at six a.m., this was at 3.30 in the morning, he's over at the house. Oh, fucking night. At six a.m., he calls Brian again. But this time, he doesn't say he's Thomas. He pretends to be Anne's brother Carl. Oh for heaven's sake. Carl Wishman. So Jesus Christ and he tells Brian I really need to speak with my sister. Uh-huh. If I'm Brian I'm like this is

too much trouble. I've been with this girl two weeks I can't even get a decent night's sleep. This is crazy. I'm dumping dumping this jig all I've done is had a long night talk with her and now yeah this guy Every three hours calling me fuck somebody else so And gets on the phone because she was there hiding So and gets on the phone and as soon as he hears the voice she knows it's not her brother. She knows it's Thomas So she said that immediately, basically she got on the phone and said hello, and Thomas immediately started with just a tirade

of calling her a tramp and a slut, and a whore and everything else. You tramp, slut, whore. Every loose woman word, what a piece of shit. So she hung up the phone, she hung up on him obviously. So obviously he called back, clearly, spoke to her again, told her that now she's not a tramp and a whore and a slut. Or maybe she is in his mind, but he only called her that

because he's worried about her. I don't want you to be those things. He said, yeah, he said, I called your house at the farm there and there wasn't any answers, so I went looking in town for you and I couldn't find you and I also read your journal and your diary so you know I didn't know what was going on here. I did my own welfare check didn't find you so I started reading maybe you wrote down where you're maybe. No shit. By the way that call to the Marie Gardner lady who was like yeah

I don't know that was a 34 minute phone call. These are not two-minute conversations it is a lot to get him off the phone That's the sister who lives in Chicago. So that's a long distance 34 minute call. He put out that's a woman That's concerned for daughter or sister safety because otherwise you just hang up on this fucking guy. I guess so Yeah, well back then if someone called you long distance It was so expensive that no matter what they had to say, you felt like you owed it to them to listen because they were paying for this. Literally, someone could be calling you names and you're like, this is costing them like

three bucks a minute. This isn't, you know. This is crazy. I'll just let him go. Let him go. He can't get off his chest if he's willing to pay this much for it. Oh man. So June 18th, 1996 now, Brian shows up for work at his clinic and gets out of his car

and he's ready to start another day of helping the animals out and he discovers that a large rock has been thrown through his front window of his clinic. So we kind of, we get that here. A lot of mystery behind that. Not a lot of mystery probably. Doubt it's kids. So June 21st, 1996, Anne and her brother now, Carl, actual Carl, not fake Carl on the phone, fake phone Carl, Anne and her brother and Carl's girlfriend were about

to drive to Geraldine at approximately 10.30 PM. So I guess Carl said that he and Anne were going to Geraldine and that Anne was in her vehicle and Carl was in his with his girlfriend. So they were in two separate cars. Now while this was going on, Carl said he noticed a vehicle with its lights on quote just sitting there and he said that this vehicle waited till we left the driveway. Now he says, Carl says he recognized it as Thomas and one of his dad's pickups. Now keep in mind he's in a separate car than Ann

so they're not talking about this, no cell phones. So Ann said that they were driving down their lane when she observed a vehicle approaching at a slow speed. She said she didn't recognize the vehicle and kept on driving to Geraldine. She thought of somebody lost or something but the Carl said no fuck that that was Thomas and one of his dad's pickup trucks. Just not his. So they get to the bar Carl and Ann and Carl's girlfriend. Carl said they went to a bar in Geraldine and while at the bar he noticed that Thomas was continuously driving up and down the street. In front of the bar, just driving back and forth.

Why? Either go in or go home. What are you driving back and forth for? Maybe you'll see them come out and act like you ran into them, I guess. I guess that's what it is, yeah. You can't go in, you're gonna cause a scene. Oh, it's gonna be a scene, yeah.

So, Carl said that when he left the bar, he saw Thomas drive by, so he followed Thomas. And they met up at an intersection where Carl got out of his car and told Thomas to fucking quit calling my sister and quit following her around, god damn it. Carl then asked Thomas, where are you going? And Thomas said that he's going home. And he said, good, fucking stay there, leave us alone. Did he go home? No.

Let's find out. Well, he did go home. Oh! But he didn't stay there. He just switched vehicles. Oh, for heaven's sake. So he's, just switched cars.

What the fuck, man, he's so exhausted. I was just gonna say, how exhausted are you right now, just hearing about it. He didn't even sleep last night. Imagine living through this. No no he hasn't slept in days I don't know what is I don't know when this man fucking sleeps. It's crazy So he went back switched vehicles then went back to Geraldine and waited outside the bar So Anne comes out and she said that she exited the bar with Brian

and Observed Thomas sitting on a bench in front of the bar. Dude, if I'm Brian, I'm hands up and I'm going, this is too much, guys. He's your problem, lady. We've been going out for two weeks. Like, it's not like, oh, like we're just dating. This is way too much drama for this shit here. And it's not her fault.

But still, if you're an outsider, you're like, I don't want any part of this shit. Also, you'd kind of feel like anything that happens to her is going to be your fault. You know what I mean? Yeah. At some point, you got to take some accountability, like calm the fuck down and let that situation go away before you start interfering in it. I don't want to be seen with you for a while. I mean, granted, granted, we should be, we should, we should have fucking some decorum and not treat people like this, obviously.

Well, obviously stalking would be as frowned upon in our society. In the event that people can't follow the fucking rules, maybe let them handle it first before you pour piss gas on this fire. Yeah, gas piss. That's not good. That's the worst kind of piss. So June 24th 1996 Carl tells Thomas again to stop bothering I'm sorry Anne tells Thomas stop bothering my family and friends because he continuously was

doing that. Carl the brother said that they received telephone calls where you know nobody would talk and they'd hang up, the hang up calls. Oh boy. Carl also said that if he answered the phone, they would get about two calls per night if he was the one answering the phone. But if Ann answered the phone, they would receive 10 calls that night of hangups.

Real sausage fest around. I just wanted to hear her voice. Yeah. What good is that? What good is that doing you? So just seeing if she's home, I guess, not hear her voice. Yeah. What good is that? What good is that doing you? So just seeing if she's home, I guess, not out with Brian. But when it's a sausage fest, I'm not calling. No, no.

We'll keep it out of that. July 2nd, 1996. A good month has gone by here. It's about 10.30 p.m. here, and Anne and her brother John, a different brother, are sitting on their porch watching a lightning storm in the distance which is nice a lot of distance to watch shit in there. Oh yeah he was coming from miles. Fuck yeah so the house lights were off they were just watching like that and they observed

lights approaching their farm on the country road yeah coming down or County Road sorry so Anne said she turned on some house lights and waited for the their farm on the country road. Yeah. Coming down, or county road, sorry. So Ann said she turned on some house lights and waited for the vehicle to drive in a yard. She suspected it was Thomas, so after a period of time she and her brother drove down their lane to look for the vehicle because it never popped up at the house. So she's like, where the fuck did it go? Now, Ann found, Ann said they found an ATV sitting in the middle of the road with its neutral lights on and nobody around.

It's running. A running ATV in the middle of the road with lights on. That didn't just fucking fall from the sky I doubt. Someone had to drive it there. That's interesting. Now her brother gets on the ATV and drives it to the house fuck it this is ours now we own this yes it's ours so Ann said that they then woke up her brother Carl who then drove around the area looking for anybody on foot yeah somebody

on foot Carl then returned to the house and called up Randy, who is Thomas' brother. Randy Jureski here and asked if Thomas and their ATV, or is Thomas and your ATV home by any chance? Is Thomas sitting there? Yeah. Yeah, so the, Anne said a short time later that Thomas answered the questions for them, because this guy said

I don't fucking know I don't live in the same thing with him so I don't know what to tell you here a short while later Thomas emerges covered in mud walking through their yard toward the house okay I don't know what he's been doing crawling around in the mud or what here. So Thomas said he was going to the farm quote, just hoping to catch a glimpse of her in the window. Whoa, man. Wow. Um, he apparently was apologetic at this point.

Didn't get nasty was apologetic and again talked about killing himself. He needs to talk to somebody. It's yeah, he's this is too much. You can't do this for a month. So Carl heard Thomas state that if he could not have Anne, he didn't want to live. If I can't have you, I don't want to live anymore. If I can't have you, I want nobody else. Yeah.

I don't want nobody, baby. So they moved on from night moves to fucking disco music. Perfect. We're going on through the years here. So, Anne indicated that they talked for some time and Carl offered to give Thomas a ride home because he felt bad for him. He was like, this guy's just a heap of a mess.

Tears going through the mud on his face, that's a mess. So embarrassing, yeah. Yeah, that's terrible. So, immediately after all this happened, Carl gets in the car to drive him home He and calls Brian up here and tells her what the hell happened It's Jesus Christ saw this ATV and then he you know emerges covered in mud like John Goodman and fucking raising Arizona. It was weird Tears made us made them made the mud look like

Look like makeup running. Made it look like Schwarzenegger in Platoon. Is it Platoon? No, it's... It's fucking Predator. Predator, that's it. Platoon. Platoon is Charlie Sheen, Oliver Stone movie.

It's a war movie. Tom Berenger and Willem Dafoe. Yeah. So, that's fucking funny. So, Brian told, then said that, listen, I can sympathize with you because at about 3 30 a.m. Thomas came to my house last night too, claiming his truck had broken down and I need to use the telephone. So you were just happened to be coincidentally driving past my house when your truck broke down again, okay.

Wow. The excuses he's making are just, it's just, it's stalking and he's giving shit excuses that are like, obvious that you're fucking stalking me. He's not a great stalker. He's being found all the time and then has bad excuses for it. Not a good stalker.

Fuck, so Brian told her that he let Thomas come in and use the telephone and he said he returned to bed. So he goes, yeah, use the phone, let yourself out and then went back to bed. Would you let this guy just unsupervised wander your house while you went and laid down in bed? Isn't he a drywall puncher? This guy's scary as shit. Yeah. I'm going to just make sure this weirdo is out of my house anyway. So at that point, Ann told him she was concerned for him, meaning Brian, and said, I don't know why Thomas would be on the road that passes your house

other than to drive by your house. Let's be honest here. My truck broke down while stalking. Can I use your phone? Yeah. And Brian is just not, he doesn't seem real street smart at all. Like he doesn't seem real or whatever, farm smart or any of that shit. He just seems kind of book smart and doesn't really get shit here.

I guess maybe that's why he deals with animals and not people. Maybe he's better with animals. Yeah, social cues aren't his thing. Animals don't speak English. So Ann told him, listen, you bet, do me a favor and keep a shotgun next to your bed just in case. Wow. So he's, Brian said that I'm not gonna do anything

to Thomas unless he did something to my clinic again. If he tries to fuck with my clinic again, then we'll talk about it, but otherwise, I'm gonna try to leave it alone and hope he just punches himself out. Okay, yeah. I bought him two sheets of drywall and I said, listen, go to town, buddy, and just stood him up out in the yard against the tree.

He can come between me and a girl, but the vet, the clinic's how I get more girls. Yeah, that's where all the girls are. It's a source of girls. So the weekend of July 6th and 7th here. All right. So post 4th of July 1996, Brian stayed at Anne's apartment in Great Falls And said they received calls on July 6th

Right before 11 p.m. And 1130 p.m. And then again on to at about 2 30 a.m. That morning They got calls. They didn't answer the calls believing they were from Thomas So Anne said that approximately 3 a.m. that morning, the phone rang again, and Brian finally said, you gotta answer it. We can't have peace. Tell him to fuck off at least. And maybe he won't call back,

but otherwise he's just gonna call all fucking night. It's too much. So Ann picked up the phone, and she said she could hear someone on the line, however no one's speaking. It's a hangup, it's one of those again. Now later on we find out Thomas' phone records show that calls were made from his residence She said she could hear someone on the line, however no one's speaking. It's a hang up. It's one of those again. Now later on we find out Thomas' phone records show that calls were made from his residence

to the apartment at 2.27 and 2.49 a.m. So July 8th, Ann receives a letter from Thomas where it's a completely different tone. Now it's all conciliatory. He's sorry for humiliating her Very sorry about that. My my actions have been unforgivable Very sorry, but he doesn't say so i'm gonna let you go and you live your life and whatever He says but I really do want to get back together and get married and have kids with you So that's why I did it and I can't help it because I want to marry you

July 9th 1996 and spends spends the night at Brian's trailer here and Anne said at 2 30 a.m. she saw headlights driving into the driveway. The vehicle then departed quickly though before she could like get a read on what vehicle it was. All she saw was the headlights. So Thomas would admit later and to anyone who would listen that he often would drive to Brian's residence in the early morning hours Just to see if Anne's car was there Trish now member Trish a friend She said that based on the actions of Thomas and her discussions with Thomas

She was very concerned for the safety of Anne and Brian very concerned She gave this statement, quote, I called Carl that night, and I told Carl's the brother, and told him that I was a little concerned because I thought that Tom wasn't acting rationally, that I was afraid for Anne being at Brian's house and not telling someone where she was.

As far as what I thought he would do, I have no idea. I mean, I don't know that he would do something, but I did feel very concerned, very concerned. I told Brian that same night. I called and Carl told me that Anne was at Brian's house and I called over there. Brian answers the phone and I told him to watch his back. I really felt that Tom was not handling it very good. Then I spoke with Anne and I told her the same thing I said no matter what time you come home whether you call me or you call Carl

Which she never did I said tell somebody that you're on the road if it's the middle of the night and you're by yourself Let someone know where you are Yeah, so now she is a lot more just to check in all over town to make sure she hasn't been kidnapped and thrown in a gulch So that's fun. July 12th now, Marlene Prostman, remember that's the landlord and one of the landlord, Dickie Prostate man's wife. She works at the vet clinic that Brian has here. She gets a call from Brian at about 4pm and he said he was coming home from Bozeman that evening.

He was in Bozeman for some reason. Marlene called receiving a call after Brian had called from a young man asking for Brian. Now she told the young man that called that she didn't know who the fuck it was that Brian is returning from Bozeman this evening. So you know, call back later or some shit, you know. By the way, guy calling, it was obviously Thomas. Obviously, yeah. So.

Fake Carl. Fake Carl, fake Carl. So, I love this, he's just fake Carl from now on. So Thomas and Randy, now the brothers here, the Jureski brothers, they said they worked until approximately 7.30 p.m. on July 12th, 1996. Then they returned to the farm near Geraldine where they lived. Randy did not stay at the farm that night though. Randy left the farm at about 8 30 and went to Stanford, which is where that

motel was when we did the review, and did not return home until about 4 30 a.m. Well, there's handing out popcorn like hotcakes over there. How do you go home? Popcorn and coffee are flowing. So Thomas was alone at the farm, at the family farm, in those early morning, late night hours here. Thomas said that he was there the whole night. He'll tell everybody, I was there all night, all night.

He did call Brian's residence at approximately 9 45 PM that night, but hung up when Brian answered the phone, obviously. Um, so, so she knows Brian's home. Now, Anne said that night she was at her apartment in great falls with her friend, Kelly Hines. And Kelly confirmed that she was with her at the apartment and Said at about 9 30 p.m. She received a hang-up call. So Thomas was doing his hang up 9 30 It's time for my hang ups call Brian call. Yeah, just just find out where everybody's at. Okay, good deal

I feel like she has like a little map with pin that he you know pins that he puts on it Absolutely like a police map in old-school one that like lights up You know, there she is and like she blinks as she moves So yeah, she made that She said she immediately called Thomas back because she thought it was him She's like, I'm not taking this shit called him back and got his answering machine Okay. Now Thomas here says he didn't make the phone call

later on, however phone records show that he made the phone call at 9.30 p.m. All right, and it was made from Randy's residence, by the way. He went over to his brother's house to do it. So Ann didn't believe that Brian was gonna return from the conference until the next day. He thought, she thought that Brian would be

in Bozeman the whole time. Again, just a simple text if we had cell phones. That evening Ann suggested that her friend, Heinz there, call Brian's residence so she could hear Brian's voice on his answering machine and hear how nice it was. You should call my boyfriend and just hear his voice. It's so nice, you're gonna love it. So that's how much she likes him. She just my boyfriend and just hear his voice. It's so nice. You're going to love it. So that's how much she likes him. She just wants her friend to hear his voice. His voice smells cute. Oh my God.

So she does. She places the call at about 10, 15 PM and Brian answers the phone. Oh, so Anne's like, Oh my God, you're there. Great. Yeah. So Anne said, Hey, have you been getting hang up phone calls? Because Ann said that, and then Brian said, yeah, I had quite a few at the clinic, and I just had one at my house here. So they spoke until about 10.40 PM when Brian said he had to go.

He said, I gotta go. And I guess according to Ann, she said goodbye, and he just hung up. He said, I have to go, and she was saying goodbye as he hung up, And she said that. He's never abruptly terminated a call like that ever. He always says, OK, goodbye. It's a new love.

They're going back and forth. Goodbye. No, you hang up. No, you hang up. Yeah. No, I love you. No, I love you. Yeah.

And he just instead, she's like, goodbye. And he was quick. That's it. All right. So during the phone call with Brian, uh, and told Brian she was interested in obtaining a temporary restraining order against Thomas for both of them. We should both get this. And, um, so yeah, that phone call ended abruptly ended abruptly. Now introduce Bill's

speva sec. He lived about a mile from Brian's trailer here. He said at about dusk that night on Friday July 12th he heard what he believed to be two shots fired. When asked if he had previously heard gunfire from a distance he said yes quite a few times and it as far as my recollection it was not a rifle it'd be more like a short pistol shot or you or more of a pop instead of a rap sound or whatever. These are hunters and ranchers and farmers. They know what guns sound like. They can hear and identify them.

Hunters and ranchers can identify them like a young kid in Baltimore. I was just going to say, or a kid in Baltimore. Yeah. Absa fucking lutely. It's crazy how that bridges the gap. Bridges everything, man. They know. So that was going on there.

This guy also said he recalled seeing an unidentified male driving a dark green ATV in the direction of Brian's trailer. Randy owns a black and fluorescent green ATV, and it's the same ATV that was at the house at that time. It's a stocky. The same one from July 2nd.

So by the way, when we say dusk, you're thinking, what time you thinking? Around 6 p.m. Nope, this is July way up north. Oh, so it's 3 p.m. Dusk begins, no, way late. Remember the summer here? Remember the 4th of July? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, summer. We had to's 3 p.m. Dusk begins. No way late Oh the summer here remember the fourth July we had to wait for my 30 This is the middle of July dusk didn't begin until approximately 10 o 1 p.m. Whoa and lasted

Between 33 and 48 minutes. It's not dark till 11 p.m. These people hate daylight savings That is wild Holy shit, they are saving the shit out of it so much to save and the winter though. It's dark at three o'clock So that's the problem So yeah, what is it 130 shit pitch black out there? So that's the time period after the phone calls and all that kind of thing period after the phone calls and all that kind of thing, Richard and Marlene, the landlords and friends of his, of Brian, said that Brian's trailer was always left open and that Brian didn't even have a key to the trailer.

Really? Didn't even have a key. Just, it's wide open. It's wide open all the time. That's how these people live up here. Anne also said when she went over to Brian's trailer on the on Friday, July 12th to mow his yard She went over to mow his lawn Hey, sweetheart. I'm out of town at a conference. My lawns a little shaggy

You want to grab the mower and come on over what what are we doing? I can't I can't just let it go for four days I'm gonna need somebody to come by Wow When she was there she said his trailer was open as well And she said this all the time she's been there was open as well, and she said all the time she's been there, his trailer's never been locked. And we know it's not locked because he doesn't have a key. He's not going to lock it. So Richard Prosman here, Dickie Prost Eight Man, said that on Friday, July 12th, he observed the lights, like we said, he observed lights on in Brian's trailer shortly after dark, Which is after 11 p.m., indicating that he was home.

Richard said that the lights had been off while Brian was in Bozeman, so he didn't leave him on the whole time. So he said that he and his wife left for Laurel, Montana between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m. the next morning, Saturday, July 13th, and they arrived home back from Laurel at about 6 p.m. and 9 a.m. the next morning, Saturday, July 13th, and they arrived home back from Laurel at about 6 p.m. that night on July 13th. That's a Saturday.

So at around 7 p.m. they left for Great Falls and spent the night with their daughter. That's a lot of driving around these people are doing. So then Richard said they returned to their home between 9.30 a.m. and 9.45 p.m. on Sunday, July 14th, and he called Brian and found the line was busy in his house, couldn't get ahold of him. Busy, which busy signal happened back then,

nothing you can do about it. So then Ann said that she and Brian had made tentative plans to see each other Saturday evening, July 13th. Ann called him at about 9 p.m. on July 13th and he never answered so our she was busy I'm sorry right so she kept calling until 1 a.m. over and over and over again and it was always busy so she's like what the fuck he's spinning a yarn tonight yeah this is why he must be really on one. So this is interesting. So apparently, the day of that week earlier,

Wednesday, July 10th, before Brian left for Bozeman, he had talked to Richard Prosman and Brian was asking him questions if he knew anything about Thomas and shit like that. So Prosman said that Brian told him that Thomas had come to his house one night at 3 a.m. and asked to use the phone because his vehicle was disabled or whatever.

And Prosman said that Brian told him he had never heard a vehicle enter or leave the area. So he doesn't know even where the vehicle was. So July 14th, 1996 is the Sunday, okay? Richard Prostman he can't get a hold of Brian so it's still still busy he's been on the phone for two days this guy's really chit-chatting. So 10 a.m. on this Sunday morning he goes over to Brian's trailer knocks on the door no answer but his car's there. So he just goes in. And right there on the kitchen floor, there is Brian, dead as fucking can be,

lying on his back here. He's lying on the floor on his back with his legs crossed near the ankle. And near his left hand is his, Brian's own.357 Magnum. Oh. Near his left hand there. So they immediately obviously called 911.

He's very dead. Dickie Prostate Man said, I just kinda panicked. He said, I may have checked for a pulse, I don't even know, but he didn't look alive. That kind of thing. He said, yeah, he checked his eyes and they were glassy. He said there was blood everywhere and he saw a gun near him.

So he was like, oh, I think I know what happened here. He said he didn't see any of the injuries from the shots at the time. So he said he drove the mile to his house and yelled for his wife to call 911, telling her that Brian shot himself. He's like, Brian shot himself, Brian shot himself, call 911.

So he and his wife drove back down to the trailer after she made the call they go Traips around the crime scene a little bit more She went inside and yelled quote. He didn't shoot himself. He's been in a fight something bad happened She went in and looked at everything like it Richard was just like holy shit didn't expect to see this and took off she went in knowing what she was gonna see and looking at it like a detective, like trying to figure it out. So the cops show up and this is when it really gets messy.

Okay. So the investigators arrive and they observe a handset to the telephone was under Brian's left hand. Off the hook. And he's got the gun in his right hand he wore a button-up outer shirt Brian did the outer shirt was unbuttoned exposing a t-shirt underneath t-shirt with a dress shirt over it the outer shirt was torn Brian suffered two gunshot wounds to his right arm yeah that's not a normal

suicide attempt right kicking his own ass and one to his right arm. Yeah. That's not a normal suicide attempt, right? Kicking his own ass. And one to his right anterior chest. Okay. Tore his own shirt, shot himself three times. Boom, boom, boom. I fuck it. Can't take it anymore. Yeah.

So the forensic pathologist determined that the later wound to the chest, which was near a contact wound, was the death shot there obviously They also noted an abrasion located in the mid forehead and a second abrasion and the bridge of his nose Okay, been in a fight. Yeah So they also noted his right eye was swollen and he had a contusion behind his right ear They take the gun in, the.357 Magnum by his hand is the gun that fired the bullets that killed him. Really? Yeah. So this is a weird crime scene. Now, back to the crime scene, investigators

reviewed the crime scene and based on the location of the bullet holes, the spatter and the droplets, which won't be there very long as we'll talk about, they concluded that Brian had gone out to the back steps of his trailer where he confronted his assailant. One of Brian's shoes was located near the back door and blood was also located on the sidewalk near the back door. They further concluded that a struggle ensued and that this whoever did this shot Brian twice in the right arm as Brian attempted to retreat to the trailer They believed that the the assailant grabbed his outer shirt ripping the shirt and then shot him in the chest

Brian then retreated to the kitchen and attempted to use the telephone and died in the kitchen while he's trying to probably call for help now telephone and died in the kitchen while he's trying to probably call for help. Try to get help, yeah. Now, okay, this is a crime scene that there's a lot of different parts to it. Yeah. And it's very important to keep all this shit pristine. There's going to be trace evidence here, all this type of shit. So what they do is, here's Douglas Williams, who's with the sheriff department at the time. He's the guy who's supposed to be in charge of this shit, but he's away at a conference, a training conference at the time. He's the guy who's supposed to be in charge of this shit, but he's away at a conference,

a training conference at the time. So there's other cops that are in charge that aren't normally in charge of this type of shit. And by the way, they haven't had a death like a murder, a suspicious death like this in 19 years in this town, in this area. Yeah, so most of the people on the police force didn't even see that one.

Have never seen a murder before or anything that's close to it. Now, this guy, Douglas Williams, who's supposed to be in charge here, he says that they have a quote, unwritten policy there with crimes. First of all, all crime scene policies need to be written.

So basically no policy at all. Or too much of a policy, one of the two, because we'll find out this is Not a policy well they have an unwritten policy regarding the cleanup of bloody scenes, okay and that is that Alright well basically what happens is I'll tell you in a second, the deputies in the local coroner spent a few hours just fucking trampling this crime scene in this kitchen. They take about a dozen photos, which isn't enough. Twelve.

Twelve. You could do that just with the blood spots outside. Never mind everything else, holes in the walls. And in the process, what they do is after they take the photos, they just start mopping the fucking scene up. They don't document shit, they don't swab for DNA, they don't dust for prints because the family started showing up and they didn't want the family. That's the unwritten rule is they didn't want... Don't let family see it.

Don't let family see a bloody crime scene. So they literally got a bottle of 409 and started destroying every piece of physical evidence in the house. Oh, that shit. Wow. That shit's good. It's great. You spray it on a scorpion and it dies. That's awesome.

I think that shit is the best. That shit you can smell when somebody's cleaned. Oh yeah, you know when the 409's been out. Holy shit. So not only that, the sheriff's deputy here, they cleaned up the blood under his body and everything, removed his body. This should have, they should have kept it exactly the way it was for two fucking days probably to process all this shit or at least for a few hours. There's several scenes at this house No shit. Here's the other thing the bloody there was bloody towels nearby and The phone that was between Brian's head and the wall They didn't want the family to see them

So they picked them up put them in a garbage bag and threw them out in the garbage just threw them out They just took evidence and threw it in a dumpster I'll get rid of that stuff. You can't see it. It's too bad. Holy shit Now one of the cops said all he did was quote clean up a small area of congealed blood with 409 cleaner because the coroner told him to The coroner is not even a fucking doctor Yeah, the coroner is not even a fucking doctor by the way. The coroner's not a crime scene investigator. No Medical examiner is a doctor a coroner can be any literally anybody it can be the pizza guy who got the job as coroner

He always takes the body that right they go. He's dead. That's what they do So oh my god So anyway, he said yeah The guy told me to and the later photos of the sick of the scene though suggests that it wasn't a little area. He cleaned up a fucking huge area of the whole room. Hi, Christ. This is crazy. So this is crucial evidence. Fucking gone. Gone. So they said, well, when would you clean up the crime scene? What's the unwritten policy? What the fuck? This makes no sense. And the cop said, there were certain times

we would clean it up. OK, great. There were certain times. That's what I'm saying. What are they? When it's most fucking detrimental to the investigation? One of the sacred hours that we clean up the crime scene. Well, we do it mornings, usually, if we get there.

Then, you know, got an egg sandwich in your stomach. It's nice So he went on to say though that in 98 or 2000 He doesn't remember what year though his stop his office stopped that practice and they've been you know Processing crime scenes correctly then using a crime scene cleaning service afterwards like a normal police department What rather than just going hey Bobby Go ahead and get that 409 from the bathroom under the sink. It's a mess in here. We don't want people to see this There's a scrub daddy under the sink you can go on great between the scrub daddy and the Swiffer I feel like we get this place in tip-top shape, right?

So they also find out that nothing was taken from the trailer, including valuables, jewelry, and two rifles as well as the.357. So interesting. Now they're saying they think he killed himself. The police are saying, looks like a suicide. Boy, did he hate himself. He really took it out on him to be honest. Wow.

These cops are fucking dumb Well, see you don't understand depression like we do around here when you're really mad at yourself. It's it's sad You really do you do a number on yourself? This is made besides the mayor coming in and trampling in that one episode This might be the worst crime scene i've ever heard in my entire life, literally. Even the 30s. Shines off multiple times. And really punched himself.

Fuck, man. Really, I mean, right in the arm, I want to feel it first. Punching himself, hitting himself, like fucking Ed Norton in Fight Club. So the undersheriff told Brian's grandparents and two other family members that Brian's death was a suicide even though he hadn't even been to the crime scene yet. Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories

and varied secrets from the darkest corners of history. From covert experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week, unredacted, declassified mysteries, we pull back the curtain on these hidden histories. 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II, not as prisoners, but as assets, to advance U.S. intelligence during the Cold War.

These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Redacted, declassified mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Redacted early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. Okay. So the grandmother said, you're full of it. My grandson would never kill himself.

I know him. He's not suicidal. He's not even sad. He's super happy. He's knee deep in Poon, man. What are you doing? He's that for Christ's sake. He gets to play with animals all day and then be knee deep in Poon. That's a great life he's living. I love to do that. Pet dogs all day. Jesus Christ. Now, John C. Brant said that he'd been a friend of Brian's for about 10 years, starting in Kansas. He said that he helped Brian move to Montana in June of 1994 and he said that indeed Brian did own a .357 caliber short-barreled nickel-plated revolver. Wow. He told the cops that Brian hated the gun, didn't like it at all, just hated it. Too loud,

too much. And he'd been trying to sell it or trade it for a long time and it's just been sitting there. So he said that Brian generally kept the gun in his bedroom, but it was possible the gun could have been left in plain sight in his house or vehicle as well. Anyway, yeah. Could be anywhere. They live on a farm in a trailer, who knows. So another one here, a guy named Rick Porter, Rick Porter's a customer of Brian's. He said they became friends after that.

He said that he had seen the hand-tooled leather gun case containing Brian's initials. He said that's what held the.357. So he had that and Brian had offered to sell it to him. He said, you want to buy it? And he said, no, I'm good right there. He said he last saw the gun though on the seat of Brian's car in December of 95. So the gun does move around. It's not just on a shelf up in the closet. So according to people that knew Brian well, they were not aware of anyone who was angry with Brian or would have any reason to kill him other

than Thomas. I mean, he's been saying the sky's been stalking him, but otherwise he's happy. So they look into the whereabouts of numerous friends and associates of Brian here, Thomas. I mean, he's been saying the sky's been stalking him, but otherwise he's happy. So they look into the whereabouts of numerous friends and associates of Brian here. Investigators determined that all of these people that are everybody, his sister, his family, Richard and Marlene Prostman, Larry and Laurie Hagenbach, who we'll talk about at the end of this in a while here, Anne Wishman, John Sebrint, Jodie Thorson, and Penny Porter all had alibis for the time period that Brian was killed. And all their alibis were corroborated.

They didn't do it. They were not able to locate a single witness who could confirm Thomas's whereabouts because, remember, they got home from work. His brother went out until four in the morning and he said he didn't go anywhere. Thomas did, but no I was devastated by the breakup. Yeah, absolutely. He said, I was quote, I was really hurt because it was almost like we were married, you know, going, went out four and a half years, and I was like, I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere.

I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere.

I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not He said I was quote I was really hurt because it was almost like we were married, you know Going went out four and a half years and living with each other for the last six months and you know Felt like we were married. He told investigators that he knew that she wasn't being straight up with him And quote because she had told me Brian wasn't the reason that she dumped me And quote because she had told me Brian wasn't the reason that she dumped me So he said that he knew over time that Brian was the big reason she dumped me During his interview. He also told investigators he was home alone on the evening of July 12th and

So he was asked why he didn't pick up a call from and at approximately 930, and he said, I may have been at Randy's residence, which is exactly where he was making those phone calls. So we know that for a fact. In talking to him, he makes these statements. He said he never went to the Rain house, the Rain residence on July 2nd, to seek assistance with his vehicle, even though he definitely did.

Yeah, he made phone calls from his house and everything. The last time he was present at Brian's trailer was on the morning of June 16th, 1996, a month ago, when he went to the back door and asked to see Wishman. That was the early morning. Do you know that 6 a.m. he shows up? He denied he'd ever been inside the trailer. He said he was unaware of and whereabouts that night that this all happened and that approximately 9pm the night of the murder he injured his back while working on his truck at the family farm because he had injuries and they were like, well,

how'd you hurt yourself? Fighting a veterinarian? And he was like, no, no, of course not. 68 Ford out back. God, no. Yeah. He said that he called Brian at approximately 945 July 12, 1996, but hung up when he answered the telephone and he just remained at his family farm until 8 a.m. with his back hurting. He said that's when he and Randy returned to the fields to work. Later that day, he said his back hurt so bad that he went to Great Falls and received treatment at a hospital. So fucked up.

So, um, so they were talking to everybody and the hospital and everything. They were able to determine that he did suffer an injury to his back that night. And he stated in an interview, he fell from his truck that evening and he received medical assistance for it. Medical records say that he was in the emergency room on July 13th 1996 according to the hospital records the diagnosis was a myofascial strain of LS spine So that's a condition it's chronic pain in the muscle. He strained his back. That's all you know yeah There was back out doctor said I need a backy atomy. Yeah, so he's a, that happens when you're fighting with people, apparently.

So he has the funeral. They have a funeral for Brian, obviously, and they had, you know, people were singing. I'm going to say this right now. Don't let anyone sing at my funeral, please. It just makes everyone uncomfortable. And it's not cool. Just don't do it. Like single people singing, like somebody walking up to a podium saying,

and now I'm gonna sing Amazing Grace? Yes, they had an organist and two different people. They sang Precious Lord, Take My Hand, In the Garden, and Amazing Grace, obviously. You gotta have the standard. Yeah. Can't have Christmas without jingle bells. What are we doing here?

So. Christmas to Mariah's thing. This is a Mariah thing. This is, Jesus Christ. So there's memorial set up to Brian, is the Brian A. Reign Memorial Fund in care of Q Banks of Geraldine will be distributed to the KSU Veterinarian Fund and the Livestock Judging Department.

What? I, I don't know, I only put this in here to go, what the fuck is that? Is that a class you take to livestock judge? I don't know man, but he really loved animals. You have to know all the standards. Yeah. To judge the shit, you have to know all the standards.

Sure. You have to know this animal should have this and they should have a bit of color here and this should be like that, so I guess. It is fascinating to see a dog judge pick a dog up by its tail and its face and then be like his hindquarters suck. Yeah you're out. It's a bad dog.

Piece of shit dog. This dog looks great. Wagging its tail looking happy and shit. Yeah it's a good dog. So July 18th 1996 two days later three days later, two days later, three days later, because Thomas went home, they bring him back in for a second interview. And this is, they're going to, you know, they're going to poke around a little more here. And he indicated the following.

He said, Thomas said he'd never been in or around the area of the shelter belt located near the rain trailer. Shelter belt is the wind thing we were talking about earlier. He had only been at the rain residence once when he went to the back door, never been inside. He said that again. After he made those declarations, they said, well, we have evidence that puts you right in the shelter belt.

So then he said, okay, I lied. Sorry. My bad. When confronted with facts, he just gives it up. You got me. Yeah. He said, yeah, I lied. Sorry. My bad. When confronted with facts, he just gives it up. You got me. Ah, yeah. He said, yeah, I lied. He goes, yeah, I lied when I previously said that I didn't do that. And he said, quote, okay, well, this is something that I didn't tell you guys the first time that I talked to you. Which, terrible right away. But it was something that you and Mike asked me about, is that, um, this is what the story was.

Is that my truck supposedly broke down supposedly. Yeah. And I went and asked to use Brian's phone. Do you recall that? He said, this is all hypothetical. You asked that he said, and I walked to Brian's through the shelter belt and I told him, I asked him if I could use the phone. So I, I was in the trailer. That's something I didn't tell you guys before. And I don't know why I didn't, but you know. So they were like, okay. He said, I only went there to see if she was there though.

That's all I wanted. He said, yes, my truck wasn't broken down. I did come through the shelter belt and I didn't actually make a telephone call. I just faked it. Yeah, did one of those. So he said he'd been there. They said that would there be any reason for any evidence

to be tracked down to him on a weapon or any components of a weapon? Anything, your fingerprints, blood, anything, DNA gonna be on any of these weapons. He's gonna connect you to weapons. And he said, I don't believe so. Of course, I was right at that table where the phone was at, so if there's something to do with that,

but I don't recall seeing a weapon when I was there. But I mean, as far as, if you're talking like maybe bullets or something like that, that could have been lying on the table, I might have had my hand on there. I might have just touched bullets that were hanging around, you know when I stopped for two minutes There might be ammo with my fingerprints on it Wow He said um, but no I I don't you know when I was there. I never did recall seeing one This is a terrible job. He's doing right now

So holy shit, so that is the 18th, January, July 18th, like we said, and he said, he denied calling her on the evening of July 12th, but he did admit that he called Brian at 945. But I didn't make the call right before that to Ann. That wasn't me. So fucking weird. So, phone records for Randy shows that on 9 45 someone called Anne's Great Falls residents from the telephone at Randy's house. He admitted that he was the only person at the farm from 8 30 to 9 30 a.m. He further admitted that he would call Brian quote just to annoy him on occasion by tapping on the phone with his fingers when he answered the phone just to annoy him.

He admitted that many of the phone calls were to see if Brian and Anne were together. That's why he was calling. Okay. So they're waiting for the lab to come back with shit. For what, I don't know. It's all destroyed and ruined and corrupted and everything else.

Coming back with nothing. Coming back with shit. But rumor and speculation in the town, imagine this small of a place. Down at the feed store, everyone is hanging around talking about nothing else. Oh you, you got it. Fucking period. This is the first local murder in 19 years. And wow, the county attorney said everybody is kind of on edge.

They'd like this case to be solved. They don't know whether the person's still out there running around. Yeah, they said they're conducting interviews, tracking down leads. They have 89 items submitted to the crime lab. And they said that might be the key evidence. Maybe that'll come back with something.

They said we do have suspects, but we need the physical evidence before we can walk into court. You destroyed the crime scene. What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, they said they're proceeding cautiously because of the intense local scrutiny they don't want to fuck it up Basically, they said that a lot of the early interviews where they were just getting alibis for people who knew him Became fuel for gossip people were so that guy had to talk to the cops He must have did it or that lady talked to the cops she must have did it

I think to him with a click. I think to him. Oh man who had the click? He said we noticed we'd be working on something and talking to someone and next morning the gossip mill had them arrested and convicted. Did you see they went to the police they arrested him for the murder meanwhile the guy's making fucking eggs in his. It's fine. So July 24th, 1996. Time has gone by now. DCI agents led a ground search of the vicinity surrounding the trailer. They're just doing this now. Oh no. A member of the search team found a gun case to Brian's 357 Magnum in the tall grass about 85 feet from the trailer. Okay, let's get his initials on it. They examined a shelter belt northwest of Reign's trailer and discovered that there

was an area in the shelter belt where it appeared someone had stood and trampled the grass in that area. Perfect. Yes, according to investigators, from that location in the shelter belt you can see the back door to Reign's trailer and not be seen It's the perfect hiding stalking spot Basically, they believe that the person who handled the gun case hit in the shelter belt walked to the rear door of the trailer Confronted him fought him shot him killed him walked away. There you go

Neighbors want it solved yesterday. Yeah. Yeah The some local residents have even accused neighbors of involvement in the murder like they're turning on each other. That's how crazy is it? I bet you did it. No, I bet you did it. That's what the mayor said. The mayor said that last night.

Yeah. The mayor said people are turning on each other. We got to solve this yesterday. He said the mayor went on to say people really close to Brian want this case solved. At the same time, it's disrupting a certain number of families. But members of Brian's family say they've been in close contact with the sheriff's office and are satisfied with the progress of the investigation. They said that the sister Charlene, who helped him out with the vet, said they'd been working

on this case day and night. They're going to do what they have to to get the crime solved. That's nice here. They said that the vet service will remain closed until they can find another vet to fill it in. So there we go. August 1996. Weeks have gone by. They finally searched Thomas's house. Now? Now they searched his house, you know, plenty of time. This is, we got tons of, he ain't getting any debtor, so it's fine. So they do this, they search it and they find a letter to Anne, the letter was written to Anne prior to July 12th, 1996, and the death.

This is what he writes to Anne, but I don't think he gave it to her. Quote, I really hope that Brian doesn't hurt you too bad, but maybe that's a lesson. You'll just have to go through I Sure haven't heard many good things about him Tammy told me that he goes through women left and right and has girlfriends in other towns I took talked to Jodie Thorson about him and she really hates his guts She called him a bastard and said that he cheated on her. She said that he's real good at manipulating younger women and that he uses people. Different people that I've talked to said that it won't last long between you two because he'll either get tired of you or cheat on you, whichever comes first. Then he said the first I knew you slept

with him was June 15th, but Jodie told me that Glenda had told her that you were seen leaving together June 8th Which was only four days after you dumped me and had slept with him So what what does any of this matter at this point? Yeah, I am real hurt that you dumped me But I'm even more hurt that you started seeing someone else right away and jumped right into bed with them Okay, so that is August of 1996 Rest of 96 goes by nothing. Oh all of

97 goes by oh no no progress They've fucked this crime scene up so bad. They have to figure this out April 4th 1998 they want to talk to him again. During this time he again denied making the call to Ann on July 12th and stated he did not know where Ann was that night. He did admit to calling Ann's telephone in the early morning hours of July 7th and July 11th. He stated that on those occasions he set his alarm clock to wake him after the bars close

so he could check in on them. He set an alarm for bar closing time. If you're setting your alarm, then you're sleeping just fine. This is a man. Just stay asleep, man. Yeah, stalking is a job for this guy. He sets his alarm, he's like, oh shit, I'm almost late. That's some serious homo, man. I gotta get there. Oof, I almost, I'm almost late. That's some serious FOMO man.

I got to punch in. This is crazy. Yeah. That's a crazy amount of FOMO. So wow. Um, he also conceded that he had driven by Brian's trailer on many occasions, other than those he acknowledged in previous interviews. He said that he'd use different vehicles, including the ATV in order to avoid suspicion by Brian and his neighbors and Anne. Many of those drive-by incidents occurred on weekends.

He also admitted on one occasion he drove into Raines driveway one early morning, then left. That means that seems to be the one that they were talking about, where a car pulled up and then it never came. During the April 4th, 1996 interview, he was again asked if he may have touched the weapon or a gun case. They said, and you said you may have touched some cartridges or something that was on the

table. And he said, yeah, that's where his phone was located was on the table. And the only light he had on in the house was his bedroom light. So it was dark So I said there's a possibility that just just leaning his hand on the table. He might have grabbed some some ammo You know that goes So they said is there any way that you could have sat your Your hand down on on a gun case or touched it or rubbed up against it, and he said well, yeah

Of course he said there's a possibility. Like I said, it was dark and I could have, you know, leaned up against the table while I was on the phone. So that's a possibility. And they said, you're under arrest. I think you're under arrest, sir. This is, I may have touched all the things that were at the crime scene with my fingerprints on them is not a good excuse.

You get real handsy with things. This is weird. You're real touchy feely. That's just how I am. Sensory, I have a problem. I need to touch. I treat the world like a children's book. Sometimes there's some velvet, I got to touch it.

So yeah, he's going to jail charged with murder and burglary. And this is one of the undersheriffs here, said, we were hit with a lot of gossip and rumors and knew early on we couldn't say anything. We knew it was going to be a complex case. We had a lot of folks to look at. Did you? I don't know, man.

If someone's stalking you, I feel like that's the one to clear first, a stalker. Feels like he just thought, we have to check everybody in town. 200 people, he could. And then when we run out of people, then we gotta start looking out of town. Yeah. Eventually we're gonna check the whole country.

We could be, he could be in Philly for all we know. Yeah, I don't know. They said that he was viewed as suspiciously early on, but he said, I wouldn't say he's always been a prime suspect. No? Then how fucking stupid are you people? Are you kidding me? I just described him stalking.

They said the defendant's relationship with Wishman was hardly ideal. He was possessive of her and disapproved of her associations with other men. On one occasion, the defendant threatened to kill other men that she might date. Okay, now family members of Brian's praised the investigators. I don't know how.

I've been like you dumb fucks are lucky you arrested somebody. You fucked up the crime scene. It's been a year, two years almost. You people are useless. Fuck you. I don't know why they're so grateful. You fucked everything up and you finally did the right thing. Sorry not really fucking doing that.

She said I know they've been working on this a long long time. That's the sister That's true. That's Brian's mother. Yeah, they said they chased a lot of leads and rumors I give them credit for being persistent and not giving up They wouldn't have had to if they wouldn't have cleaned the goddamn crime seat up. So wow So his parents live in Scott City, Kansas Their son moved to Geraldine then, and he said the sister was the partner in the business. They're talking about that.

Investigators kept close contact with the family as the months rolled by. Brian's mom said, they've been very good. They told us as much as they could, which was nothing. They acted like it was a big mystery rather than, listen, we know who did it, but we can't really arrest them now because we fucked some stuff up.

They didn't tell her that. She also said that she doesn't know why he was murdered. She said, I'm not sure we'll ever understand the why. It was just so senseless. The sheriff said he spent considerable amount of time with Thomas's family members after the arrests, many of whom are long time residents. And the sheriff said,

the Jureski family are just darn good folks. Are they? Yeah, besides that murderer one. Yeah, that one, yeah. I just hope people have some compassion for his family too. Whew. And Brian's mother said there's still a wait here, they have to wait a lot, they said we're thankful that there's been an arrest,

but happy? There's two families that have been destroyed by this the suspects and ours can't be happy They're being way too logical. They got it. They got to get some police work done Yeah, get in there and fucking do something here too much. I guess not logical They're putting too much human emotion into this they need to fucking yeah with some police work It's in a town of 200 people everything, know everybody, so everything is like a personal thing. Well, I don't want to offend Paul if I knew this. It doesn't fucking matter.

That's why it's hard to do shit in a small town. And everybody knows everybody. Then September 25th, 1998. This is what, five months after the arrest. Charges are dropped. What? Pardon? Okay. This is what five months after the arrest charges are dropped Pardon, okay Judge John Warner ruled that certain evidence obtained through the use of a bloodhound could not be used

That's the gun case with his fingerprints on it According to the prosecute to the press at the time the prosecution was unable to properly Document the dog's work on the case to the judge's satisfaction unable to properly document the dog's work on the case to the judge's satisfaction. So the following month, the prosecutors have to drop the charge. An assistant with the Montana Attorney General's Office here, Prosecution Service Bureau, said, I didn't feel we had a strong enough case. If I don't believe we can win a case, I'm ethically required to have it dismissed. It's Montana and you're not going to have

an expensive trial. They don't spend a lot on that kind of shit in the rural area. So that's going to be the county's whole court budget for the year. So you better make sure that that motherfucker is guilty. So that was 1998. Years go by. Sixteen years to be exact. Oh my god. Sixteen fucking years. Now in the meantime, Thomas has gotten married, had two sons with his wife and moved to South Dakota. Oh. Left the state.

Whole new life he's got. Left the state, whole new life. But in 2014, they re-arrest him. Okay. Because he wasn't acquitted, he just had the charges dropped. He was arrested at his home in South Dakota. His wife probably didn't even know this shit was going on. Yeah, he's not telling her.

He, they showed up at his house in South Dakota on April 30th, and that was that. This is the, one of the communications people for the Attorney General's office said several several years ago at the request of law and law enforcement our prosecution services bureau here at the Montana Department of Justice took another look at the case with the assistance of our division of criminal investigation. Our prosecutors reworked the case which included additional investigation and felt that sufficient evidence they had to refile charges.

So they do. 2015 it's trial time baby. This is a lot of 19 years after the crime and physical evidence hanging around. No it's all been either dismissed as not you know admissible or it's been cleaned up with 409. So the openings here, the prosecution for the Montana Attorney General's office made the opening statement and said that he was heartbroken following a breakup.

We've all been there. He said, yeah. He said that his girlfriend Anne started dating Brian while he was working there and she, whatever. They had been living together before the breakup and then she's moving in with this guy, painting the picture of the relationship that we just did for two hours.

So, you know, the prosecution characterized him as a jealous man who displayed the behavior of a stalker, quitting his job in Great Falls, moving back to his family's Geraldine farm and driving by Anne and Brian's residences and calling them both on multiple occasions. They told the jury that Thomas entered Anne's home in the middle of the night when she wasn't home and read her diary and read that Brian was the man of her dreams. You know what that did that set him off Oh, I'll send you into a fucking tizzy babe. You bet it you bet it will so the prosecutor also said Thomas told Carl

And his brother that he'd entered the residence that they all shared without them knowing and Further stated that he if he couldn't be with and he might as well kill himself They put that all out there And further stated that if he couldn't be with Anne, he might as well kill himself. They put that all out there. They also asserted that he called Brian's residence and hung up and did the same to her that night, which we know.

And they said, and now he knows they're not together. She's at her place, he's at his place. Perfect. So they said that Brian was speaking on the phone with Anne just before his death and that he abruptly ended the conversation, which would make sense because he said, I gotta go, he said, there's a person outside and he hung up.

And they said, that was the last anyone ever heard from Brian Rayne. The state gives no theory to how exactly he was shot three times in the upper arm, arm and chest, not in the opening. But the cops thought they figured it out because he had blood outside. Arm, arm, now, I don't know, I guess he stole the gun.

Someone must have stole the.357 from him. And that's all I can add. That's all he could do. So they give no theory. They say that this was not a suicide. It was not an accident. It was a murder where no evidence was left behind That's very funny

From the defense of going no evidence because of the incompetent Yeah, police force these people are you can't trust a word from these people great commercial for 409. It's terrific It will clean up your crime scene so the defense now will clean up your crime scene. So the defense now Jennifer Striano of the Montana Office of Public Defenders made the opening statement first explaining that the state will prove that her client was heartbroken. That's true. It's true. And also that he did some really stupid things. He did some dumb things and immature things, something that just a heartbroken person might do in desperation, but they're

not going to prove that he killed Brian, tell you that much. He said there's no evidence. They said the officers expect to testify, will try to explain away and excuse their treatment of the crime scene and even blame the decision to clean the blood on the coroner who was a mortician and not a trained law enforcement officer or even a doctor for Christ's sake. So they said, well, he wanted it cleaned up. Well, shut, who cares?

You're not the investigator. We'll clean it up and we're done investigating. A homicide detective, I realize there's no homicide detective here. This is like the- This is just deputies. Yeah, three guys that put their feet up on their desk and put their hat in front of their face when they want to take a nap in their office shit on their desk and put their hat in front of their face when they Want to take a nap in their office shit or in the truck or in the truck? That's what they do

They're not you know Detectives but a homicide detective or really every state law says the investigator in charge Owns the scene it is their scene if they don't want the coroner there They'll tell me go fuck off get the fuck out of my scene We'll call you when we need you the coroner doesn't get called till the detectives are done processing the scene Then the coroner comes in otherwise That's it man So they said that towels from Brian's home used to clean up the blood were placed in garbage bags along with the phone and discarded

used to clean up the blood were placed in garbage bags along with the phone and discarded. Where were they discarded? At the Chateau County under-sheriffs home. He took them home with him and threw them in his own garbage. Holy fuck this is just little league shit here man. So the defense noted that trace evidence that was salvaged including DNA fibers, fibers, and shoe impressions, didn't even match the client. The shit we have, it's all cop stuff. It's all their shoe prints and shit like that. There's a big thing about shoe prints. They also implored the jury to keep an open mind

about the time of death, saying her client did not have an alibi for Friday night, but he did have one for Saturday, so maybe Brian was killed on Saturday. The defense mentioned several other people who had alibis for Friday but not Saturday who should be considered suspects. You're going to take their word for time of death? It could have happened later. We don't know. And they also, the defense said, you will have the urge to want to solve this. That's

natural. But this case cannot be resolved. Prosecution gives their rebuttal saying the decision to clean the blood at the scene was an unwritten policy of the sheriff's office at the time. It's just fucking all up, ruin all evidence and throw it in the garbage. Wow. Especially unwritten that especially given that some initially classified his death as a suicide and family members were expected to arrive at any minute. That's why they cleaned it up. And they said that the town of Geraldine hadn't seen a homicide. This person says 17 years. I've read 19, either one. The state pointed out inconsistencies in Thomas's

statement to law enforcement officials and that he continued to pursue Anne after Brian's death. He was still trying to get with her. They mentioned several letters that he sent to Ann and that he used a vacuum cleaner salesman to get her new phone number What? Yes, he sent a vacuum cleaner salesman to her house to try and get her phone number Go sell her a Kirby and then bring the paperwork to me Fucking unbelievable. That is wild. They sent the Dyson guy in so The state said that Thomas told his new girlfriend that he was still in love with Anne and That a vet took her from him and that he wished that vet was dead and they were like she was like was he in Vietnam?

Yeah, he's like no you fucking dummy animals not a vet that way you stupid ass Corvette took your baby Jesus Christ She rode off with a man in a Corvette. Oh Jesus a soldier in a Corvette took your baby Jesus Christ off with she wrote off with a man in a Corvette oh Jesus a soldier in a Corvette okay I could see it say it I'm wet just thinking about a vet a vet ain't bad so he said he wished the vet was dead but he already was this was after he was dead and Thomas knew he was dead he was telling the girlfriend that They bring in the old under sheriff here to testify that he had been in training that day and regarding at the Montana Law Enforcement Academy

regarding coroner duties and homicide investigations. If only they took that earlier, that would have been great. They asked why they were, whether they were told cleaning the scene was not, was appropriate at trainings that he attended in 1988 1991 and 1993 did they tell you that was the appropriate thing to do and he said no Well, why the fuck did you do it? Stupid would be the fucking natural follow-up question here

They went on to ask whether cleaning a crime scene and throwing away evidence went against all the training He's received like ever and he said yes. Yeah, we never do that. Dude, how do you even deal with this if you're the jury? The defense established through this that the undersheriff should have had control of the scene at all times given his absence for training. Also that Williams also provided more information about the then coroner's training and how in 1996

the coroner was not affiliated with the sheriff's office. Some dude just came in and said, clean all this up, and they went, okay, and cleaned it up. During this trial, the witnesses, meaning the crime scene people, said that an 11 and 1 1⁄4 inch hair was found with the root still attached on Brian's left hand

That belongs to Anne Wishman. Oh, which she means she spends tons of time there So if you if you've ever been around a woman in the house, you'll get there long ago Where the fuck did that come from? It'll be in your boxers. It's everywhere How did that happen? all How did you get that in my asshole? How did that happen? They said although a vacuum search of the kitchen area where his body was found didn't discover any other hairs of hers, just one near his hand, or on his hand. Also the Montana Forensic Science Division said that they recently did a DNA analysis of Brian's underwear.

Everybody want that done to you? Have a DNA analysis of your underwear From the crime scene and found the DNA of an unidentified person who was not and wishman At a boy Yes, this the defense suggested that this could mean rain was having a relationship with someone and he and and may have had a Conflict over this that day. That's how this happened and killed him. Okay. It's all in They blame and they do based on one hair. Yeah based on one hair that there's tons of her hair in the house I'm sure then there's Larry Hagen Bush or book or buck Larry Hagen buck They were friends in Kansas

He and Brian and he had moved to Montana to work on his wife's partner's ranch. And when he was later visiting with Brian, he suggested that he move to Montana too, because there was an opening for a veterinarian in Fort Benton, and Brian ended up moving to Fort Benton and then to Geraldine, he took as his vice. So they put Larry on the witness stand and asked him about his activities in 1996

prior to Brian's death and he generally gave short answers to the questions they said. The defense also called two women who worked in a counseling office in Great Falls where Larry Hagenbach and his estranged wife went for a counseling session on Monday, July 15th, the day after Brian's body was found. The office manager there, Kathleen Foster, testified that Larry Hagenbach arrived at the office before his wife and acted like he was having a quote,

rough day. She said quote, he said the prior day he had come upon his friend who had been murdered. He wasn't at the crime scene. She then asked him questions and she said that Larry said that Rain had been shot Saturday night with his own gun. This is while everyone said it was suicide. So this is very interesting.

So Anne testifies. She's got to testify. Now her name is Anne Stone now though. She has a, yeah, she got rid of the Wishman. She said she didn't leave Thomas for Brian, she thought but he thought she did and called her a tramp she answered questions about the frequent phone calls at a time when a time when he pressured her into going for a drive and attempted to keep her in his truck when she wanted to leave and all that kind of shit as well as all the

stalking she testifies to everything she said that Thomas admitted to reading her journal and told her mother and sister that he was concerned about what he read as well as all the stalking. She testifies to everything. She said that Thomas admitted to reading her journal and told her mother and sister that he was concerned about what he read. I've been reading her private thoughts, and I'm concerned. I know what's going on in her personal life that, and between her ears,

and I'm very concerned about it. I'm concerned. She talked about her first or final phone call with Brian and that she was devastated by his death. Now, cross-examination though, the defense says, did you know your hair was found on his palm? And she said no. And they said, did you kill him? And she said no. Okay. Now there's also a shoe print. There's a shoe print that I'll read right from this, the testimony almost given to the jury Wednesday, almost given, regarding a shoe print resurfaced

in Chateau County as the defense in this case, deliberate homicide or deliberate homicide trial moved for the charge to be dismissed due to the misconduct on the state's part. The former division of criminal investigation agent, Joseph Uribe, mentioned a pattern he noticed in shoe prints left near Brian's trailer More than a week after he was found shot

This guy said that he drew the pattern in his notes and then matched the pattern on a later search He drew the pattern in his note. That's not how you do that He drew it. I'm real good that's not how you do that. He drew it. I'm a real good drawer though. And then said it matches his shoes. The defense objected and the issue was discussed outside the presence of the jury and the judge Greg Pinsky read instructions to the jury which stated that based on evidence and expert

testing not footwear impressions, based on the evidence based on evidence and expert testing, not footwear impressions, based on the evidence, based on evidence and expert testing, not footwear impressions were found at the scene or near the trailer matching any soles belonging to Thomas. They said that does all those drawn shit that doesn't count. Outside of the jury as well, the defense counsel requested to address the issue further. He said despite the instruction, the jury now has an impression that cannot be reversed and will adversely impact their trial strategy. The defense attorney says, he just lied, your honor,

to try and make a physical connection in this case between the footprint and my client. So the prosecutor said that the, just attributed this to this guy providing a longer answer than she anticipated regarding the chute print saying something She didn't expect him to say like I didn't tell him to say that Wow, the defense said that the state's intention with the line of questioning about the chute print She said the defense had no information about the ruined plaster casts of the prince

Mentioned on the stand or drawing he made in his notes of the patterns. Like we didn't even get anything on that. Apparently they made clas- plaster casts and fucked them all up. So then he just drew them from the picture. He just drew them. That looks about right. Water in the mix. You ever try to make paper mache? It ain't easy. Ever make one of them volcanoes in the fifth grade? Shit's hard. We said it said two cups and that was for half so we put six because we drew bad at math.

I thought that one, I thought the cup was one cup but turns out it's a two cup one so I messed it all up. It got four when it should have been two. It was like, you ever made rice and it's just crispy still? It's weird, right? We just kept putting water and it ended up too much. Too runny. So we just drew it.

Oh, that's so fucking funny. So yeah, they said that the defense proposed that the state intended to show the shoes to the jury along with this testimony. And yeah, they concluded that after a 19-year span between the crime and the trial, there's no reason the defense shouldn't be privy to all of the case information at this point.

And the judge said, quote, if the shoe, no pun intended, were on the other foot, you'd be outraged. Son of a bitch. Son of a bitch. No pun it really. You used that one. Really? Intended as fuck, stop it. Super intended, pun fucking on your nose man,

just right pow, the tip of it. So police interview, they played the police interview and in this they got to choice lines like Thomas saying, quote, I guess it was stupid for me to be doing this. Talking about several times when he was like, I drove by drove by I stalked I did that kind of shit here Which is really fucking funny here. He told the cops During this that they're played about driving to Brian's trailer to pick up and and bring her home after the street dance in June after

reading her diary Thomas said right then I knew she wasn't being straight with me. He said, I knew Brian was the reason she dumped me. And then that's what they're hearing. And then he told the investigators he confronted Brian about Anne when he drove over there in the middle of the night after reading the diary,

which makes him sound just crazy as can be. Makes him sound guilty is what it makes. Yeah, he explained all of the all of the phone calls He made to multiple people about like the her family and friends and all of that and he said He told Anne's mother that Anne drank alcohol and was promiscuous before they started dating when she was 17 She was a teenage strumpet also. Did you know that because that's what he's trying to say now He's he went on to say that Ann confronted him about that one July 2nd when he rode a four-wheeler to the farm and was caught hiding there.

He said that Ann told him she didn't trust him anymore and that he knew they'd never get back together. And he said that he never saw her after that. That was it. So the state introduced the letters and cards that he sent to Ann after Brian's death that has evidence to the contrary. He was still trying to get with her. They play the second interview in court and he admitted to tasking a door-to-door vacuum salesman to use his

company customer contact cards to get Ann's unlisted phone number after she moved following the death. Wow, that's scummy. Wow. He also told the cops that at about 9.45 p.m., the night the state says that Brian was killed, he said he called to apologize for his behavior. That's why he called, not to check on anybody. He said, but he chickened out and didn't say anything when Brian answered the phone. Now the cops told him in the interview they don't buy that as a reason there.

They expressed sympathy for his feelings about the breakup but then they say that they knew he wasn't telling them the whole story and yeah so also they share with him this is on the tape a theory about how the shooting might have occurred with a confrontation a scuffle the gun in the truck and was stolen. And the cop had told him, I don't believe you went over there to hurt anyone. Tom, you're the one who else would it be? There's 200 fucking people here and you're the only one stalking these people. So they said that Thomas then shared the rumors around town of his potential enemies and that

he knew people would suspect him as soon as he learned of the death. And they went on to tell him he'd be the cops went on to tell Thomas that he would be better off telling them upfront that he didn't shoot Brian on purpose. It's an accident. Tell us. Okay. They said it would look worse. Yeah.

Yeah. They gave him the little window. They said it would look worse when the evidence was collected on top of stalking you've admitted to stalking It's gonna look bad, and he said I have nothing to hide That's what they heard So the interview can also included a discussion of whether Thomas had ever been inside the trailer and all of that shit So they continue to play All of the interviews the investigators mentioned having some concerns

about his previous statements, and they specifically hone in on his lack of alibi, all of that shit. They said, do you have any idea how important that is to you? Because they said the defendant admitted to pretending to have car trouble in the middle of the night, and that Brian let him use the phone for assistance. And they said, do you have any idea

how important that is for you? That you were in the house, so your fingerprints might have been in there. And he said, I do now. Now I get it. I get it now. And they said that, look, we're not here to judge you, but we're here to help you.

Because that's always what people, that's what they're here to do. Cops love to help. And that confessing would actually help him down the road. They said, they told him prosecutors were chopping at the bit at that moment. They said, if you're,'re so he said if you're trying to get me to confess I won't because I didn't do it that's that then they told him this is what your trial is going to be like a parade of witnesses we're all going to say you're a scumbag and a stalker and

a crazy person and you know all of that kind of shit and then Thomas said Ken I've told you once I've told you twice I didn't do this Okay, he said later he wished he wouldn't have behaved the way he did after the breakup but can't take that back now Time of death is a big deal The defense attorneys are talking to people and that say Jim Arthur and Bill Meeks said they saw Brian eating a steak in the square Butte bar around 6.30 to 7.00 p.m. And then they brought in Dr. Carl Weigren, a forensic pathologist from Seattle who reexamined the evidence and offer his opinions.

And he said that studies have shown that it takes an average of around nine hours to fully digest a steak dinner. The autopsy showed at the time of his death, his stomach did not have steak in it takes an average of around nine hours to fully digest a steak dinner. The autopsy showed at the time of his death his stomach did not have steak in it but contained partially digested eggs and peppers. Interesting. The defense said that's important. That's medical evidence. And also those people could be mistaken that they saw him eating a steak is the other thing.

They could have just saw it. They could have mixed up. If you ask someone a month later, what was that guy eating in a, who the fuck do I know? I don't care. I got a life of my own. He's got eggs and peppers in him. So that's what he was eating. Yeah. So they said though, the defense said that's important. That's medical evidence. There's no way Brian was shot Friday night because there's no stake in his stomach. They also said that the photos taken of him when his body was found looked pretty normal without signs of decomposition or discoloration, but in the photos taken at the autopsy Monday

morning, significant decomposition had taken place, and they said the decomposition may have been rapid because of the shot through his stomach. Okay, now, closing arguments. Prosecutors said, I think it's very clear there's something unique about this case. It happened in 1996. It's 19 years old. We know when something like this happens, we never forget. We never forget the people that were taken from us.

They said, it's also unique because it happened in one of the least populated areas in the entire United States. They said, a trailer house 10 miles outside of Geraldine, which is a tiny town. They said, when you think about who took Brian from you, think about where this happened. This happened against a person who did not have enemies. He was a beloved vet who came to this community from Kansas and was well received.

He didn't seem to have enemies except one person. Nobody else had any motive or grudge against him. They said they spent a long time reviewing Thomas's behavior there and they said this was not normal breakup behavior. He would not allow her to simply break up and say no. They talked about his encounters with them, all the summation here as hang up calls and all that kind of shit. They said that Thomas called Rain's house at 945 that night hung up and all that kind

of shit then called in at 948 and hang up. They said so he knows where they are and then you know 1038 is the hang up of the phone when he's talking to an and then no one ever hears from him again he said there's no eyewitnesses no direct evidence such as hair or fingerprints at the crime scene still there's enough circumstantial evidence to convict him he said quote the defendant would like you to believe that there's only one way to prove a homicide. If an individual goes to a scene, takes minimal precautions, which seem rather easy to take, doesn't leave physical evidence at the scene and make sure that there are no eyewitnesses, you can kill anybody you want and get away with it.

That circumstantial evidence is not good evidence and that you cannot look at the whole picture that jurors throughout this state cannot look at all the facts collectively and make inferences of what happened. It can't be said, ladies and gentlemen that you say can simply wear gloves wear a hat destroy your clothes Make sure no one's around and kill someone so you get away with it all the evidence points to there's no doubt that mr Juresky killed Brian rain All there is to it. They said so we don't want officers to throw away phones But what does it mean in this case like that still isn't me saying the evidence the crime scene stuff who cares the shit doesn't matter They also said the time of death thing they said Thomas

Jurecki is the only person with the opportunity only person with the motive and the only person with the With the opportunity to take him out of this world. They said and he did it he committed this crime masterfully Not really you guys are just bumbling idiots to take him out of this world. They said, and he did it. He committed this crime masterfully. Not really, you guys are just bumbling idiots. It's a master. Fuck, the defense attorney said that she played a tape of Thomas talking to investigators years ago, saying, I did not go over there.

You won't find anything, I guarantee it. And she said, everything we heard the last weeks, after all of that and everything we've done, this case will remain unsolved. It's been 19 years and there's a reason it's been 19 years after all this. The only thing we have are more questions. The more we look the more questions arise. The reason we're here 19 years later is because of what happened on day one.

They she questioned law enforcement statements that they they thought it was a suicide and all that kind of shit here. They said you tell me why they asked for a bag of bloody towels and a phone and it was never retrieved and it was thrown in the garbage and it was ridiculous. They said you heard these officers try to justify what they did to the crime scene and yet they've really given no explanation. They yes they can't even admit, we cleaned up the whole area. We owe this county an explanation.

They owe Tom an explanation, and they owe you an explanation, and they refuse to give it. A guy got on the stand and said, I only cleaned up a little bit. And then they were like, no, the pictures show, you cleaned up a fucking lot of it. It's a lot of it.

Yeah. Not cool. They also said, yes, he did things that don't make sense. He did things that were incredibly stupid, but that doesn't make him a murderer. Jesus said, not at all. He's just a kid who was an idiot. Basically. They said that investigators talked to him and found he did not have an alibi while he

did have an alibi for Saturday morning and all that. She's the probably the defense attorney went on to say all of this is just a story. It makes no sense they use the word infer but you still need to infer based on rational quality evidence they said that during the trial the defense suggested that there are other people who might be considered suspects including primarily Larry Hagen Butch and Anne Wishman the defense said I can't tell you who did this I I have no obligation to, no legal duty to, and I simply can't. It's been too long. She said the prosecutors have to prove to you that it's unreasonable

to think that someone else may have done this. She said, quote, Larry Hagenbutch was the only person who knew Brian was shot with his own gun the day after he was found. The only way he could have known that is if he was the one using the gun. Or if he was friends with a cop or one of the medical people or it's a town of 200 people. I assume shit gets out. So they said we don't convict people because we need closure. We convict people because the lead investigator. We don't convict people because the lead investigator is retiring and needs this case resolved. We don't convict people so that we can close the book.

Now, the defense attorney, after all of this, makes a motion to dismiss the case due to lack of evidence. So the judge dismisses those motions. They asked for it on Friday, he took till Monday to think about it. He said he deliberated it over the weekend and he said I struggled with this decision. The judge says when the testimony and the evidence is viewed in isolation it is mostly weak and conflicting and insufficient to convict Mr. Jureski of deliberate homicide.

On the other hand when the totality of circumstantial evidence is brought into more specific light it supports the state's charge. So, yeah, he listed 12 areas of evidence, multiple calls, last person to speak with, with rain interior and exterior of the crime scene he was at in the days and weeks leading up to the murder told others he wanted the guy dead. You know, all the circumstantial evidence, the firearms said he could have touched the cartridges, ATVs. The judge said, I present these facts as the Montana Supreme Court requires me to in a

light most favorable to the prosecution. They said this evidence is very close call on whether to dismiss this case for insufficient evidence. I must be mindful of the Montana Supreme Court's stringent standard and view of the totality of evidence in a light most favorable to prosecution, I can't conclude that there is no evidence upon which a jury could base his verdict." Okay.

Jury goes out for deliberation. Oh boy. Eight hours of deliberation. That's not a lot. On this one. No, eight hours is kind of, you know, it's a murder case, so whatever, but that means it's not open and shut for them by any stretch here They come out here. He's at the table. They find him not guilty

Damn it not guilty. They said he laid his head on the table following the verdict and Yeah, afterwards as soon as they did it and the judge said, you know, he's to be released and as they did it and the judge said you know he's to be released and thanks for the jury and thanks for your service and all that the pretrial supervising officer came right over with a pair of fucking wire clippers and cut the monitoring device off his leg oh my god he is on home monitoring and his family and friends were in the whole half the courthouse cheered as they took it off this is like a Yeah, the defense attorney looked to the all the people and said you can all sleep now

Okay, I did this I am good They all took turns hugging him and all that kind of thing and then the co-counsel said all's well that ends Well as the whole group hugged literally had a group hug afterwards. Wow. A literal group hug. So 2016 Dateline comes in here and the preview montage that led into the show started out with a quote that this was a classic whodunit. No it wasn't at all a classic whodunit not even close. One of the comments on the Dateline Facebook page after the show aired was,

for such a small town there sure are enough suspects. No there aren't. No, it's just you couldn't, because of what they did they couldn't fucking use the fingerprint evidence at all, otherwise he would have been dead to rights. Him saying I might have touched it in the dark is a ridiculous thing to say.

Then Keith Morrison says, the plains of Montana are no stranger to sudden violent death. History is littered with it. He said a half hour down the highway from little Geraldine is a living remnant of America's old west, Fort Benton, Montana, still holding out against wind and weather and occasional outbursts of the worst humans can do to each other. Huh. So people have been talking about this obviously. Dateline didn't dwell on a lot of the shit here.

They really wanted to present it as a mystery. Big whodunit. They didn't dwell on the cleaning of the crime scene. They pointed it out quickly, but they didn't go like, holy shit, let's dive into that. When they asked Ken Thompson of the Montana Department of Criminal Investigation how the Sheriff's Department and the coroner could have thought

that the murder was a suicide, the guy said, I think you have to understand that the county had not had a homicide, and I think it was 19 years. I don't care if you've not had a homicide in 100 years. He's got fucking gunshot wounds to his arm. Just because- What are you talking about?

Just because we haven't had a murder in clock reset. What the fuck man? He then said Montana's a remote state. Someone's somewhere you'll drive eight hours to, someone drives eight hours to a crime scene to get to a crime scene. So it's not like a big city where you can roll in and everything's pristine.

And then Morrison's voiceover said, no, not even close. In fact, the deputies and local coroner spent just a few hours trumping around Brian's kitchen and had taken about a dozen photos and in the process had done things that couldn't be undone without swabbing for DNA or dusting for fingerprints. Episode aftermath, shitloads of people who comment on the episode on Facebook when Dateline puts it up expressed their incredulity, frustration, and anger at the way law enforcement handled the murder scene.

Comments included, I can't comprehend how this even, who trained these people, Barney Fife couldn't figure it out, how the police really bungled this, very sloppy. I would sue the police department for botching the crime scene. Nobody said anything about Keith Morrison's face, huh? Never, never. Old episodes, it's up, I'm sure.

Not one thing about maybe get him a drink of water. No, no, parched, parched. Looking at the Facebook comments on the episode suggest that the majority of the people who watched the show agreed with the not guilty verdict. Out of the first hundred of the hundreds of comments on the show, only eight people said they felt that he was guilty.

I think he's obviously guilty, but they fucked up the evidence to the point where it was really hard to convict him. But when someone's stalking like that, it's, I don't know. Yeah. Based on the evidence, I guess you got to say not guilty, but the guy's certainly a piece of shit, right? For sure. Stalker, at least. Some of the people who agreed with the not guilty verdict were convinced that he wasn't guilty while others said he's guilty, but there's not enough evidence.

That's kind of where I'm in, I think. Out of the first 100 people who commented, 23 people said they thought Larry Hagenbrook was guilty or might be guilty. Because he knew before anybody that it was with his own gun. But he had a solid alibi up till Saturday. Maybe he heard that he was shot twice in the fucking arm and was like, I mean, he clearly didn't do it on his own.

At 1038, when Brian hung up the phone, and that's when the confrontation happens, we think, and that's when the guy said he heard three gunshots, too, the neighbor, at that time, Larry has a fucking rock-solid alibi, whereas Thomas does not. So there's that, and Ann has a good one too, so it's not her either. They have to say it's fucking Saturday. So also nine people suggested that Ann was guilty.

Oh? Yeah. The Dateline episode did not suggest that Wishman was even a possible suspect, but that's what people inferred. Although the suggestion did come up during the trial as the defense attorneys brought it up. Wow. The judge says to Morrison here, this was an incredibly tough case to prove. It was a tough case to prove in 1998. It became an incredibly tough case to prove in 2015. And the episode ends, just like we're going to end our episode here, with a quote from the judge. Quote, I meant it when I told the jurors,

when they wanted to find out who did this, when they wanted to solve this crime, that literally, if they believe there's another world they can go to someday, look up Brian Wayne when you get there and ask him who killed him. Look him up, heaven has phone books. Ask the dead guy? Ask when you die.

Yeah. Look him up in the afterlife in the old white pages and ask him. Because that's the only way we're ever going to know who killed Brian Rain. And that is Geraldine Montana and a fucking mess of a story. Boy oh boy. We all think he did this right? Yeah. But but I mean, without a doubt, we know two facts. Keith Morrison needs to drink some more water. His skin is fucked. Hydrate, hydrate, sir. You look like a prehistoric river bed.

And then, 409 is amazing. That's all we know, for sure. That's the only facts we know. That's it. Wow, this shit is wild. So there you go, everybody. If you like that show Please please get on whatever app you're listening on give us five stars. It helps so fucking much

Make sure you say something it drives us up the charts and it's very good shit here Also follow on social media at small town murder on Instagram at small town pot on Facebook You definitely definitely want to go to shut up and give mecom, get your tickets for all the live shows here except for the couple that are already sold out. Some of them are selling out. It's crazy. Madison, I think it's sold out now. Just about, yeah.

I think I saw 100% now, it's sold out. Madison, Grand Rapids, see you later. Portland, sold out. San Diego. San Diego, like 898%. These are, that's half the shows almost. It's crazy, yeah. And then, so there's Seattle DC Philly

St. Louis, which is like really close to selling out as well and Chicago get your tickets right now Oh San Diego and Irvine to Irvine, California get in there. So get in there right now if you want to see the show We want everybody wants to come to come so don't get left out, please. It's a fun time. It's a comedy show You will leave hurting so shut up and give me murder.com. Here's some extra stuff for you. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get access to everything we have to offer on there. Hundreds of, as soon as you subscribe, hundreds of episodes you'll get that you've never seen

or heard before. And then you get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder and God damn it, you get hundreds of episodes you'll get that you've never seen or heard before and then you get new ones every other week one crime and sports one small town murder and god damn it you get all of it. You get it all. This week what we're going to do for you here is for crime and sports it is going to be disasters of all kinds industrial disasters crazy shit going on here just crazy disasters with you know nutty stuff then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about psychics that actually worked. That did their, that actually. They did it, they got it. By coincidence or psychic or whatever, we'll talk about it.

I figure we're always debunking things and saying that things are bullshit. So let's dive into this and people who actually did a good job. There you go, patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get that and a shitload more like we said and also what you're Gonna get right now is a goddamn shout out Jimmy Hit me with the names of the best fucking people in the world who would never ever ever stalk us and hang out in our

Wind-belt shelters hit me with them right now This is executive producer Gary Howard Elena Zemmell and Tyce Ty. And Tyskaiba, Tyskiba? Tyskiba. Thank you all so much for what you're doing. Tyskabia. You don't have to do it, and you do, and we appreciate it. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows,

Happy Hour in Pecos, Texas, Janice Hill, Scarlet Horbeast III, Nicholas Palmieri, Palmieri, Melissa Coffin, Coffin maybe, Church Meat, Jessica with no last name. Steve Dermaine, Dermaine. Juliana Morgenthaler. Rob Renner, Blackheart 2000. Angela Tatry, GKK. Santina Galvin, Marcy Smith, Michelle Kiggins, Christina Jinx, Michael Maglio, Maglio, Jesse Carlson, Carlson, the dude, no, just the dude, Lisa McChrystal.

Just that, one dude. There he is, Matt, Maddie, Maddie Pitosky, Pittaski, Josh Piper, Amanda Matthews, Darren Scott, Charlotte Dolan, Nicole Gray, Tanner Brusco, Susan Fisher, Natalie Contra, Bill2344, Aspen P, Amber with no last name, Holly Arnold, Katie with no last name, Ashley Dawn, John Donahue, John O Donahue, Kate Pat, Kay Pat, I don't know, Jenny Crosby, Amanda Haas, Haas, Haas, Jennifer Track, Stacey Guy, T-Ray Bergeron, Bergeron, Michelle Harris, Michael with no last name,

Angela Schmeiser, Gail with no last name, Olivia with no last name, Alex Herkamp, Robert Scafoni, Lizzie with no last name, Bethany Stevens, Joseph Nicholson, Kate and Chris from New Jersey, Ollie Oxenfree, Clinton Salisbury, Salisbury, Haley Lock Luke. Oh Luke. Salisbury twice?

Salisbury the first time. Ah. Thomas Waite, Sarah with no last name. Is that Waltie or Waite? It's Waite. Benjamin Madison, Matteson. Peter Gois, it goes in, oh it goes in you James, the Peter. The Peter, it goes in you James the Peter as Peter goes in

Yeah, as you were trying to figure it out on my eyes were getting wider like Jimmy Are you not what you're gonna keep trying to pronounce this? And then moose Alva Thompson Michael Dutch it's a Dutch name Sernadjuski de stack Alexandria Alexandria crooked to crooked to its Crooked to cro crooked wits crew key All right, Taylor Carson this is close. I'm gonna get Michael Frankle Finkel William Vorgias Vorgas Angie Angie weasel weasel ink wezzel ink

Jessica Anderson Jen Harris Maybe on Rick Calhoun Colin for sex Emily for, Danielle. Forsex, Colin, Colin Forsex. Colin Forsex, that's what he's doing, yep. Danielle Crumb. It does, Berto Calez. Berto Calez, Mukulele, Roy with no last name.

That's funny. Keana, Keena, Keana Price, Cat Proctor, Rian, with no last name, Ryan, Rian, Rian, Erica Brimhall, Kelly Wrights, Lauren Stites, Cher with no last name, Cheryl with no last name, Joy with no last name, Midnight with no last name, Thelma Borgensdorfer, Arlen, Thelma, you've got a fucked up last name, Arlen, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora,

Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, Dora, D You say, did you get Yana out of Lillian? You started out all, that was a journey. I got Lillian out of Yana.

That was a journey. Lolo Smirnoff. Lauren Loham, Teasha Deakins. Court with no last name. Stephanie Bean Kepler with no last name. Colt Kibbe Christine, like the car that killed people. Haley with no last name. Austin Bath, Peyton Rabideau. Hin Hine Time, Shane Shipley Haley with no last name. Austin Bath. Peyton Rabideau.

Hinn Hine Time. Shane Shipley. Tree with no last name. Craig with no last name. Also Craig King. Probably the same person with two of them now. Tassarath. Twice.

Tassarath Shazafoochie. Shozathel. Shozatheli. That's not right. Okay, sure. That's probably not even somebody's name. Mike would know last name. I don't believe him.

Nicole would know last name. Megan Johnston, Alan's mom, Carolyn would know, Carlin would know last name. DrewDog34, just my luck. Lori would know last name. Rhonda Morland, Dem Zero, Dem O. Andrew Knopf, Knopf, maybe it is Knopf. Knopf, Knopfle? That's possible.

Jacob, Jacob Walker, Antonia, Antonia Valais, Randy with no last name, The System, Melanie Lilis, Jordan Vollrath, Edith Serna. These are the most fucked up names ever. This is like all of Eastern Europe has fucking decided to. Anthony Festa, Cindyibald Freida Freida white Michelle Coppola Jenny showman Stephanie sing it okay seen it seen a conorath oh scenic conorath I don't I feel dirty I don't know what it is. I was gonna say, is that Dick Kizinya, part two?

John Randall, Armza, with no last name. Amanda Walsh, Edward Galligan. Veronica B. Kayla Lanyer, Cody Richardson, Emily Stewart, Aislinn Burgess, Joss B. Joss maybe, Heather Nelson, Kira would know last name, Christopher Banville, Tila, Taylor, Talia Christ, Joe Gladhill, it's probably Chris, Elise, Elise Bridges, Elise Bridges, Becky would know last name, JBW89, also J and J, JJ, the letters J and

J. Thank you all so much for everything you're doing. Thank you so much everybody from the bottom of our hearts. You people are goddamn fantastic. Thank you for all that you do for us all the goddamn time. We're gonna keep it coming week after week. If you wanna follow us on social media, head over to shutupandgivemurder.com, drop down menu will tell you everywhere you need to go,

want to go, and until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.