Small Town Murder - #59 - A Picturesque Murder House in Raymond, Washington

Episode Date: February 28, 2018

This week, we look at the old logging town of Raymond, Washington, where a seemingly sweet couple lived in a post card environment, complete with red farmhouse, and white picket fence, where they even let people in need stay with them. Life was perfect... Until people started disappearing. Along the way, we find out about the best small town parade going, how much abuse an adult will take from another adult, and how many people can die right under their nose before some small town police will look into it. Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!! Please subscribe, rate, and review! Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts! Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder! For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.com Check out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media! Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpod Instagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurder Twitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, before we get started with the show, we have a big announcement for you guys. The Shut Up and Give Me Murder Tour is coming to you. Small Town Murder live shows.

These are live podcasts just like you like to listen to, like we do from the studio, but live with you there. Right in front of you. Right in front of you. Going to be so much fun here. April 5th, Los Angeles, California. April 7th, San Diego, California. April 7th, San Diego, California. April 14th, San Francisco, California.

April 15th, Sacramento, California. April 20th, 420 in Portland, Oregon. Oh, boy. That's going to be insane. April 22nd, Seattle, Washington. April 26th, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. April 27th, Chicago, Illinois. Yes.

And wrapping it up with April the 28th in New York City. Oh, baby. We're so wrapping it up with April the 28th in New York City. Oh, baby. We're so excited. We can't wait. Get all your tickets and all the information over at shutupandgivememurder.com slash live. Tickets will go on sale February the 16th for all these shows. Also, don't forget March 25th in Phoenix at Stand Up Live. Yes.

All the links are in the show description. Come out. Tell us to shut up and give you murder. This week, we look at the picturesque town of Raymond, Washington, where a little red farmhouse holds some very deep, dark secrets. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Boy, we are excited to be back in the studio, back off the road. First and foremost, thank you, Boston. Thank you, Detroit. Holy shit. We had a great time. We had so much fun meeting all of you guys, first of all, and interacting with everybody.

That shit is so crazy. And it's so much fun. The shows were so fun. Everybody had a great time, including us. Yeah. Minus the luggage incident and other things. If you are planning on coming to an upcoming live show, first of all, we recommend

next show is in Phoenix, March 25th. Get your tickets to that. We recommend wearing some gear to those live shows. You can do that by going to crimeinsports.threadless.com and get all of your Crime in Sports and Small Town Murder t-shirts and hats. Not hats.

We don't have those yet. Everything you can fucking want. Everything you can imagine. Besides hats. They don't have any hats. So sorry about that. But everything else you can get there. Please do that. If you have not done it yet, please get on iTunes and give us a review.

Honestly, guys, we say it all the time. iTunes has a funky algorithm. It's true. It's not our fault. No. We don't say, hey, you know, let's try to get as many reviews as we can. Like for us, who cares? Who gives a fuck? It really not our fault. No. We don't say, hey, you know, let's try to get as many reviews as we can. Like, for us, who cares? Who gives a fuck?

It really helps on the business end. So if you want to help the show out, you can do that very easily by going to iTunes. Give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. Tell us what the weather's like today. That's it. We'll find it interesting. That's it.

You can do that. If you want to be an even bigger help. You can. A superstar of epic proportions. A producer, as a matter of fact, like we're going to talk about later on in great detail. You can do that by going over to patreon.com slash crimeinsports. That's the one. Or you can go over to PayPal.

You can make a one-time donation using our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com. There you go. You want to follow the show at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook. Find us there. All that good stuff. Before we get to the show, though, we have to do the disclaimer, obviously. Right. We've had some, there's been some kerfuffle over the disclaimer, the location of the disclaimer.

Tell you what, you're lucky you're fucking getting a disclaimer, number one. We give a disclaimer so people don't complain, think that it's just straight up like an investigation discovery thing. There's comedy in here. It's true. That's the disclaimer. The disclaimer isn't, oh, my God, this is horrible. Watch out. The disclaimer is, guess what?

This is a comedy podcast. All the stories are true. It is. 100% true. This is nonfiction, the whole deal. But never mind that stuff. Like we say, it's not true. This is nonfiction. Correct. The whole deal. But never mind that stuff. Like we say, it's not that bad. It's just that if you think that true crime and comedy never go together, then this isn't for you.

It really isn't. It's true. We're all getting on this roller coaster. Here's the sign. Last chance to turn around. Why don't you go down and watch and we'll come off all happy and laughing and saying what a great time we had. And you can be like, oh, I guess that did look fun. We do all of this.

We make sure we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. It's not what we're about. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's true. That's the fact of the matter. And with that out of the way, I think it's time, guys. I think it's time. I know what you're shouting out there.

Just shut up and give me murder. And we are ready to do just that. All right. Let's dive into this. This show was originally supposed to be a bonus episode show. We recorded two shows in Boston. We recorded Crime and Sports that was supposed to come out on Tuesday. Last Tuesday, this would be this week.

We recorded three shows in Boston. We recorded three shows, but two to release. And then we were going to release this story because it's so goddamn good as a bonus episode. And then we found out that we were recorded quite poorly. They did not mic the audience and really basically anything else. It sounded bad. It sounded like we were in a hallway and it was like eight people on the other side, end of the room, that were mildly interested. It was a very, very weird recording.

So we could not do that. That Boston show, mildly interested is a horrible way to describe that crowd. One of the best live crowds I've ever been in front of. They really, really were. Hot as a $2 pistol down south. So that's what it was, basically. And it just didn't come across on the recording. And we just didn't want to put out something that wasn't good quality.

And some people are truck drivers. They have loud jobs. They wouldn't have been able to hear it. The sound quality wasn't that good. And we didn't want to put that out. So we're going to put this story out. Don't worry. It's still the same format if you're going, oh, but now Jimmy knows the story. No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. Jimmy

had a lot of whiskey in Boston. Boston is a drinky, drinky city. And they're very generous with their alcohol in Boston. And Jimmy, if we did the first show of the day, you'd probably know a bunch of it. A good amount. It would be mixed in with other stuff. If you started the

story, I could probably hit some points. But the second and third show of the day, this is all as new to him as it is to you, so don't worry, folks. I'll be as surprised as you guys will. You really, really will. So that said... Whiskey gives me the memory of a goldfish.

It's pathetic. It's true. It's embarrassing. It really is true. Like he didn't remember things that happened earlier in the day. So this is no, it's been a week too. This is out of his system like nobody's been. He pissed this out with the whiskey.

Gone. Any trace of the story. It's too bad. So let's go on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? When the bag's packed? Yes. We're coming from Massachusetts. Yeah. We were all's too bad. So let's go on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? When the bag's packed? Yes. We're coming from Massachusetts.

Yeah. We were all the way over. So cold. Massachusetts, it's cold. We're going on it. It snowed. It snowed. It was amazing.

In Boston, it snowed on us when I was up at 5 o'clock in the morning. Waiting on luggage. Still. Oh, boy. Oh, man. Wow. God damn it, American Airlines. You son of a bitches, boy.

Yes. Please do not fly American Airlines. They are a horrible, horrible group of, I believe, this is alleged, but I believe the entire executive hierarchy are all convicted child molesters. Allegedly. I don't know that's true. That's not true. I heard that. That's just something I heard.

Right? You heard that, too? I heard that when you were screaming it walking through a terminal. Yeah. That's what not true. I heard that. That's just something I heard. Right? You heard that too? I heard that when you were screaming it walking through a terminal. Yeah, I can believe. Yeah. That's what I heard. I heard it from other people. So that's right.

I've never seen a man so angry at an airport. Oh, how I didn't get arrested is a mystery. So let's go to Raymond, Washington. All right. We're flying another airline besides American to get there. We'll fly Spirit. Right fucking there. I will crawl there across broken glass before I fly on a goddamn American flight.

I'll take a 72 Pinto with a gas leak before I'll fucking fly American. So we're going to Raymond, Washington. All right. All the way out west. Beautiful country out here. Yeah. It's gorgeous, man. This is in the west coast of the state.

All the way on the west. Mountains and trees and shit? Mountains and trees and streams and lakes and inlets and ocean. Pacific Northwest. Beautiful, man. This is great. It basically looks like you could just reach in and grab a salmon right out of a picture. Just grab out of a postcard.

I love salmon. Fresh salmon right out of a postcard. It's two hours to Seattle, two and a half hours to Portland. So kind of in the middle of nowhere, basically, is where we're at here. It's a little closer to Tacoma than it is to Seattle. But, I mean, who cares, really? If you're close to Tacoma, is that something you're going to brag about? Well, we're close to Tacoma.

Well, fucking whoop-dee-doo for you, then. That's terrific. Hooray for Tacoma. We go to Tacoma for the county fair. Well, then, how about that? High society. It's in Pacific County. It's on the ocean.

Fair enough. I'll give you that one. It's on a stupidly named county at least. You have the Pacific Ocean. Zip code 98577. Area code 360. Be careful of phone calls from there, and you'll find out why from the story. Very dangerous.

It's about four and a half square miles. about a half mile that's on water, so about four miles. They have several mottos in this town. They cannot decide on a motto. They just can't. What is that? They cannot decide. Now, it's funny because as we've known and we've talked about a couple times, we found out how these towns get their mottos. It's through marketing companies who are just bilking.

Probably never even been to that town. No, not at all. They literally get like, this is the town. And they look over a brochure and they just come up with four or five slogans a week for different towns. Like a hired comic coming to roast you. Yes, exactly. Like, tell me about Bill from HR. So he's a shit golfer, okay? And they're writing that down.

He cheats on his wife? Fucking amazing. He wears bad pants, very ugly, okay, that's good. You hear he... Well, you heard he had a tiny dick from... He doesn't flush, huh? Alright, that's good. He leaves floaters, good job, alright? And they go out there. They don't know Bill from HR, but they're gonna roast Bill from HR. You bet, you bet. Same thing

with the slogan maker. Same exact thing. Let's see what a few of them they have. First of all, this is an old school one, and this is fine. This didn't take a marketing company. This was somebody who just said this on their front porch, I feel like. Quote, the Empire City of Willapa Harbor. No.

That's a little wordy. It sounds Star Wars. Empire City of Wallapa Harbor. No. That's a little wordy. I mean, it sounds Star Wars. Empire City. There's a lot of, yeah, it's an empire. It sounds very Star Wars. What's the word I'm looking for? Inspired. That's the word.

This isn't really a city. There's a lot of things wrong with that. So we're going to dismiss that one. Right. Okay. The second one is, quote, the city that does things. Oh, boy. That came from a marketing company. You know it did. The city that does, what are they like? They go outside and do, the city that does things. Oh, boy. That came from a marketing company.

You know it did. The city that does, what are they like? They go outside and do, the city that does things. They go on bikes and shit. They do things. They do things. You know, there's a forest. There's all these things.

There's things that they do. Yeah, the city that does things. Someone got paid for that. Yeah. Somebody paid their mortgage with that shit. And their new motto for Raymond Washington, and God, I wish I was making this up. You know, sometimes I make up a motto. Yeah. This, I wish I was making this up. You know, sometimes I make up a motto. This I wish I was making this up.

This is real. This is on their website. Quote, everybody loves Raymond. Washington, that is. Oh, yeah. You bastard. You son of a bitch. How dare you?

How dare you? That's ridiculous. Oh, that is infuriating. That is the most infuriating motto we've ever had. Not a single one of the people on that show have been to this town. You don't get to do this. No, everybody at Oh, that is infuriating. That is the most infuriating motto we've ever had. Not a single one of the people on that show have been to this town. You don't get to do this. Everybody at Washington, that is. And it's in parentheses and everything.

They're like, hey, in case you didn't know. In case you didn't know. Wink, wink. That's a parenthetical wink is what that is. Oh, we dick so much. Assholes. God damn it. I'm so mad right now.

I've only known one dude named raymond in my entire life i think yeah i think one dude i think that's true rays i think back home mode ray yeah yeah yeah you're right ray yeah rayman i guess yeah raymond yeah yeah yeah ray that are italian it's a common name for guys with greasy hair it is very oh yeah yeah it comes with it yeah it comes with that i knew one guy i knew ray when i was a kid that was like an old man that was very tough, knuckles busted, his hands were always gnarled, and his hair was caught. I've never seen him with a hairdo. It's all just greased back. It's an odd thing. It's actually a state law back in New York, I know. If you buy a pizza restaurant, it actually comes with a man named Ray. I don't understand it.

Actually, he worked. He's just there. You come in, you open the door, you know, the lock you got from the real estate, you open it up, and there's a guy standing in the middle of the floor with a shoulder struggle who are you i'm right i'm fucking right how you doing you're like oh we got yeah this is i work here i come with the restaurant i don't know i've been here since i was a baby i grew up in that back room pal i don't know i make pies that's what i do i mix flour for a lot raymond is just like such a horrible name. It's just. It is a horrible name.

It's a shit name. It's a terrible name. It's a shit name. It just, it reeks of corduroy pants to me. It's terrible. Raymond with an L.L. Bean catalog under his arm. He doesn't even like the online shopping. He likes to feel the pages.

He likes to really send in the order. He feels like he can get the depth of whether that vest is exactly what he's looking for. And it's the thin cord. It's not those fat ones. You don't get stylish ones. No. It's like pinstripe. Keep it straight.

This is something you can wear to a company function. You can wear it on the weekend. It's very functional. Golf course or birthday party. You never know what you're getting into. You got it. History of this town. Prior to Europeans coming, obviously tribes lived there, Native Americans.

It wasn't just an open forest with no one there. There was the bunch of shit I'm going to mispronounce. There was the Chinook, the lower Chahalas, and seasonally the Quahiloka they were like the original snowbirds seasonally they were there they'd be like the fish are drying up I don't know about this

they're the lost tribe of Jewish Native Americans they'd be like I don't know let's schlep it over there then we go down to Oregon I go down to California when it gets cold. It's very cold up here in the forest. I don't want to do it. The spray from the water, it's too much.

Jewish brown guys with feathers in their hair. That's it. I don't know about this. I'm going down to San Diego. I can't do this shit. I just picture Mel Brooks in blazing saddles. They're talking on us. That's what I just pictured when he...

Mel Brooks. I don't know. We go over here. We go over there. What do we do? That's what I just pictured when he Mel Brooks. I don't know. We go over here, we go over there. What do we do? That's amazing. The white people who came in obviously brought tons of diseases and completely just, they had no immunity to these diseases. They were bringing diseases. They were

sailors. They weren't even just from Europe. They were bringing in South American diseases. Wherever they could find and have sex with the native women, they would pick those diseases up and bring them to other people, hand them right over. 1,700 SARS, they're bringing that shit. That's what it was, yeah. A malaria epidemic, big malaria epidemic in the 1830s brought in by sailors, completely pretty much wiped out the Kuala Lumpur tribe, destroyed them completely.

They were gone. They were there. They were like, hey, we shouldn't have been here for this season. I told you. I told you it was cold out. I told you we go to Portland from now on. You said no. I said so much better.

A Jew from New York. You're Jewish. I feel so shitty saying Jew accent. You probably should. There's a good reason for that, I think. I think there's a good reason for that. Jesus Christ. So they wipe out most of the tribes, but wiped out that one pretty much completely.

They killed all those white people who were like, yeah, we got this. This is good now. That's the first thing. We've conquered this with typhoid. First it's typhoid, and then we have guns after that. So there's no treaty at that point. If you watch Deadwood, the HBO show Deadwood, there's a lot to do with treaties with the local tribes and the government and the U.S. And it's a it's a lot.

So you have to have treaties. Otherwise, your claims aren't because you could go in, claim land, build a thing. But if there's no treaty and then the U.S. decides to give that land back to the natives, then you just built them a house. You just built a house and you have to leave. So that's a nice gift, though. That is nice. That's a nice gift, though. That is nice. You're improving the land. Right.

Wood, lumber, and drywall in exchange for fucking wood sticks and leather fucking wrap. We bring smallpox and construction knowledge. That's what we bring. So, you know, whoever's not dead has a nice house for you. Enjoy the blankets and the house. Enjoy that there. So, yeah, they started claiming up all the land, the white people, and the Indians had to move away from the rivers, too, because that's where all the white people were. And they're like, great, now what are we going to do?

Now what? Perfect. So there's tribes being moved into reservations. And then some, they don't have to go, though. Some of the people are just moving into like kind of integrating into the neighborhoods type of deal, neighborhoods as much as you had a neighborhood in the 18, 1700s. to the neighborhoods. They put the L on neighborhoods as much as you had a neighborhood in the 18, 1700s. Now, in the late 1800s, 1889 to be specific, there was a promise that the Northern Pacific Railroad was going to come through nearby, which is just downstream from them.

And that was just people blew up. They were like, oh, shit, the railroad's coming. After just a promise of it. The promise of it. Once they heard railroad's coming, everyone started buying up land on speculation. Because it's like if the railroad second they put that first spike down, this land shoots up through the roof.

So you have your speculators. They're going to do that. How many of that times did that happen where people thought... Oh, it's got to be crazy. I think that's the plot of Blazing Saddles, as a matter of fact. Those are the railroad comes through. It's also the plot of Trading Places. It's the whole just speculation of anything.

Of anything, yeah, yeah. But specifically railroad land speculation is the exact thought of Blazing Saddles. Well, that and racism. Right. There's a lot there. And parody of trying to hide the N-word in bell tolls. Exactly. God, it's a great movie.

That is a great – if you're younger, watch Blazing Saddles. Yeah, if you're under 30 and you've never seen that, you're an idiot. You're robbing yourself of something fucking amazing. You need to see this movie. You need to see that and Young Frankenstein, for that matter. Anything that Mel Brooks put together... But specifically those two movies, To Me or The Greatest, and those came out in the same year. It's crazy, right?

You can't get one good movie in 10 years now. This guy put out two literal comedic masterpiece legendary fucking movies same year same year six months apart unbelievable like oh so a group of people formed uh the raymond land and development company in 1903 uh because where there is anything there's going to be douchebags who want to profit off of it absolutely uh so the raymond after that then it started shit started becoming official became officially incorporated into a town in 1907. Raymond was named after L.V. Raymond, who was the first postmaster in Raymond. Oh, there's your guy.

At least he was not a bewig douchebag. So that's good. They named it after a non-bewig douchebag. Just a guy. The postman's your hero. That's it. Not even the postman. Not even the guy.

Postmaster. Just the postmaster. He just oversaw everything. Not even the guy who actually brought the shit to your house. He just sits at a desk all day. The guy that tells people how to sort my mail. We should really. That's our man.

That's our guy. We should really. Everything should be named after him, I really feel like. He's the boss? Fuck yeah, that's him. That's the guy. Now, the business section of this town was built. There was tidelands that this was built on.

So it's all marshy, watery land. So they built the whole town on stilts five or six feet above the tideland. So they had all of these crisscrossing elevated sidewalks and streets. That's wild. It's all above the ground. They had 2,900 feet of elevated wooden sidewalks

in the town, which is so weird. It's so bizarre. And it sounds dangerous back then, too. Shit wasn't constructed well back then. You were falling right through. Right, it's not up to OSHA code. It's not so weird. It's so bizarre. And it sounds dangerous back then, too. Yeah, I mean- Shit wasn't constructed well back then. You were falling right through. Right, it's not up to OSHA code. There's no- It's not lacquered.

No. It's just raw wood. They just put wood on. They're like, that's good. And people just started- Walk on it, Timmy. Started walking in salty, moist weather. It's rotting beneath your feet.

You're going to jam wood into marshland and soak it and expect that shit not to eventually crumble. It's apparently so. Now, by 1913, it had 6,000 people here, which is more than they have now, as we'll talk about in a second here. Here's some bullshit here that I don't like. They claim this town, Raymond, claims that Nirvana played their first gig there in 1987. How many shithole towns in the Northwest claim that Nirvana played their first gig here? That's how you get anybody to your dumpy bar in a crappy southwestern town. You know, Nirvana played their first gig?

Really? Wow. Seems random enough, sure. And by the way, their first gig gig they were fucking terrible so i'm sure they were awful yeah no shit they didn't go up there and play smells like teen spirit no played some garbage shit they played off bleach probably if they had whatever they had they didn't even play that oh man this bleach is great but that's fine i'm sure they played something while kurt just mumbled into a microphone talking about how he wants to fucking it's probably just loud right

punk back then it was probably just all sorry i'm I'm going to do the Nirvana thing there. So, town nowadays, since weed was legalized in Washington in 2012, it's basically a weed town. There's logging and fishing and that sort of thing. The logging industry has gone down, which they do it differently now. The timber industry. But weed, they've taken weed and they've run with it. They love weed.

There's tons of weed stores. There's grow operations. They make weed-infused things. There's factories for that. You can get a weed job there. Those are the jobs, pretty much. Here's my thing about weed. I'm fine with it. I'm completely fine with anybody smoking it and enjoying it and getting high and having

a great time. Do that. That's fine. Stop claiming that it's medicine. Stop that. Knock it off. No. No, not well. I've never seen... You ever had cancer, Jimmy? I don't know. Listen. You ever had chemo and not been able to eat? I don't know. I've known people that have and they... So it gives you the munchies. Yeah. But right.

Exactly. But that's not medicine. That is medicine. Alright. My point is this. That's the definition of it. I've never seen somebody standing on a street corner spinning a fucking street sign saying, Pepto-Bismol over here. You know what I mean? I don't know.

They're not that excited about it. I guess Pepto's just not as much fun as that medicine. It's not as much fun. Pepto makes you, eh, a little bit. I mean, it helps for a lot of things, honestly. If it helps you focus on things, fine. I don't care if anybody does it. I don't give a shit.

I don't even care. You can smoke I don't give a shit. No, I don't care. You can smoke it and drive because you're fucking fine. I had a girlfriend in high school. Her mom got breast cancer. Her mom was a complete dork. She was a librarian from Minnesota. I swear to God, they drank milk with dinner. They were the most mild people ever.

And her mom got cancer. And she got chemo and she couldn't eat. She literally could not fucking keep food down. She couldn't eat. She couldn't eat. She's like throwing up because of it? She couldn't. If she took two bites, and she couldn't eat. She literally could not fucking keep food down. She couldn't eat. She couldn't eat. And she asked. She was like throwing up because of it? She couldn't.

If she took two bites, she'd throw it up. Jesus. She couldn't eat. So she was withering away because she couldn't eat. Right. And she asked if we would get her weed because her doctor said that's because they gave her other medications. It didn't work.

She didn't have any appetite. And so she'd never smoked weed before. So we got her a little bong and we got her some weed. Yeah. And she started fucking eating again. And that was literally, I mean, she saved her life. And she was just spent all her time in the kids section of the library, though. Just very amused by the bright colors, which was very strange.

That's my point. She had a great time eating, too. That's what it is. I'm sure she did. Which, why not? Shit. Why, if you can take fucking Oxycontin and have a great time while your back feels better, what's the goddamn difference?

But I don't see anybody spinning a street sign for fucking Oxy either. No, they would if they could, though. They're not, it's not that exciting. They're too down in their couch, like, I don't know, man, about this Oxy. Stop with the Rastafarian colors in the painting of the mural on the side of the weed doctor place. I get it. You're excited that you can sell weed.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I have no sympathy from drunks, so sorry. You can drink all you want in any fucking city you want. Half the world is designed for you to throw up and piss in the fucking street and start fights and be assholes. You're going to go, don't spit a sign? So I can sit in my house and fucking eat a pizza? Eat shit, drinkers.

Fuck you. How's that? All right. People in this town. Population. 2,815. Now? Now.

Wow. Which is at 6,100 years ago. My Christ. It's down 3% since 1990. It's basically been declining since the 20s. Okay. Since the 1920s. Median age here is a little older, 42.6, about five years older than the norm.

They couldn't get over that whole fucking industrial slump. The Great Depression just ruined this forever. Just wiped it out. They're like, never again. No, gone. Now, married population's a little lower than normal, and you get that a lot with these logging towns and things like that. It's kind of guys go up there to make a living a lot of times.

But the male and female population, it's actually more women there. So I don't know if the weed industry draws the women. I'm not sure how this works here. A few less people that are never married. More widows because it's an older population that kind of stays. So there's more about double the widow population of normal. More divorced people. Race of this town, not as white as you'd think.

You'd think very white here, but 68% white. Fascinating. 62 is the norm, so 1.03% black. Don't think that they're filling in the blanks with black people, because that's not happening. No. Asians, 9.09%, which is the most Asian town we've ever covered. Right? I don't think we've had that.

That's a lot. That's a shitload of Asians. Yeah, almost 10%. That's bananas. Not bad. Good for you guys. 17.23% Hispanic. Okay.

Because no offense, but there is harvesting to be done. There you go. So they're good at that. Yeah. And it's not a matter of they want it. That's a skill that they'll have and go, I'm good at this and then I'll travel to where my skill is needed and that's where it's needed. Mexico cultivated that.

They started this whole thing. And if you, yeah. You yeah you fucking legalize it you're gonna have guys that know their shit and they know their shit and you want to hire that guy to make your weed the best exactly 29 religious so we're well below the 50 norm there uh because they can get high that's it they're like what do we need religion for god i'm stone this is better uh shit 12 somebody give me a street sign we 12 putting that rasta hat 12.87 catholic uh because there's mexicans so you're gonna get catholics there obviously uh let's see here democrat more democrats here than republicans and politically here 54 democrat 42 republican which is actually wow less out of whack than I thought it would be for a very weed-happy town. Unemployment rate's a little bit higher because of those logging and fishing jobs have gone.

They're trying to make up for them with the weed jobs. Median household income here is about $34,844, which is $20,000 less than the national average, which is not terrific at all. That's definitely something to worry about. The jobs here, a lot of manufacturing jobs, and that's in weed and weed-related products. Making ropes. Making ropes, making weed things. Health care, too, because there's some old people, so you're going to get always more health care in that time here. Cost of living.

Yes. Now, 100 being par average. Here is 93. Real close. Real close. Real close. Health care is a little high, things like that. Housing. 20 grand less a year.

20 grand less a year. My Christ. Housing is a little as low, though. Yeah. Housing is a 67 out of 100. Yeah. Now, median home cost here is $124,000, which is 185 is the average. Yeah.

So, not too bad. It's affordable. Sure. If you had some money and just wanted to get stoned and hang out in the Northwest, not a So not too bad. It's affordable. If you had some money and just wanted to get stoned and hang out in the Northwest, not a bad place to go. I got to say right there. So you can get a cheap house. That's great. And if you want to get a cheap house and we've convinced you to get a cheap house,

we have for you the Raymond Washington Real Estate Report. All right. My favorite. I love it, man. On the average, a two-bedroom apartment in Raymond, Washington goes for about $852, which is $300 below the average nationally. Yeah, I guess it is. Not too shabby. Four-bedroom, one-bath home.

Looks like it fell apart. Looks like it burned down two weeks ago. But if you can put it back together, 1,372 square feet, $49,900. Jesus. Definitely looks like an abandoned grow house, though. It needs help. Needs a lot of help. We have a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,300-square-foot home.

That's good. On 1.5 acres. Yeah. Brick. It's very nice for $149,900. That's not awful. Not bad at all. And then we have a beautiful house.

This is like a sprawling estate. This is really nice. Three bedroom, four bath, 3,100 square feet. My Christ. For $409,900. So if you pee, that's too much. It's too much. If you saw the interior, it needs some work on the inside.

It really does. Jesus. You're going to have to put some new kitchen in there. Some kitchen stuff. No good. Things to do. We have the Northwest Carriage Museum. Oh boy. Which from the pictures looks like literally

big plastic figurines of horses and carriages that you can look at. Looks terrible. Go look at fake. It's not even a real horse. Oh no, no, no. If you've got carriages there that a horse is dragging around,

I'd love to see that. They're excited about it, too, here. Also here, on TripAdvisor, the number seven thing to do in this town is the Dr. O.R. Nevitt Memorial Swimming Pool. Oh, boy. And here's a review of that swimming pool we have for you here. Quote, our family visited this public swimming pool on a hot Sunday afternoon. The above-ground pool was the perfect spot to cool off with no crowds. Number seven thing to do in this town.

The public pool is above ground. The public is swimming a coffee cup of other people's children's urine. That's the number seven best thing to do. My Christ. Wow. And also the Willapa Festival Parade, which I found pictures. And in this is like the 4-h club and all this and then there's a truck going by on the side of the truck it says kenny rocks and there's a guy you

remember this picture there's a guy with a crown on the burger king sitting in a recliner in the back of his truck making the devil horns with his hands that's kenny and he apparently rocks i don't know he rocks the fuck out of that town. Crime rate. Yeah. Property crimes right at average. Violent crimes about 20% higher than the average, which is, for a small town, I don't know.

When they're all stoned, what are you so violent about? What's there to be violent about? Guys, relax. Now let's talk about some people in this town, shall we? And this is a twisted tale of some crazy shit here, guys. This is one of the wilder ones. This week and then the case for next week, oh, my God, I've been sitting on this. It is the white trashiest case in the history. Fuck yes.

They actually, I'll give you just a preview of next week's episode. They claim white trash as a defense in court. Holy shit. Swear to God. Wait till you see this. Wow. Literally say in the court documents they don't understand the white trash court. Holy shit. Swear to God. Wait till you see this. Wow. Literally say in the court documents they don't understand the white trash culture.

Holy shit. Swear to God. Multiple murders, mind you. That's awesome. But let's get to this one because this one's just as nuts. It's white trash, too. This is super white trash.

Of course it is. They just don't claim it as a defense. First, let's talk about Kathy Loreno. By all accounts, Kathy is a wonderful person. Everybody likes Kathy Loreno in this town. Everywhere. She's known as helpful. She's known as a free spirit who's

very cheerful. She doesn't get in other people's shit. She minds her own business. Non-confrontational. They say she's just always smiling. She's like me. She's like you, except she's happy on the inside. You're full of shit you're full of shit that's the funny part i project happiness and then i'm just smoldering we're the same person i just refuse to fucking pretend that's the only difference between us

whereas you're more pleasant to deal with because you'll put on an accent. You're full of shit. You'll put a front on and be like, hey, I'm happy, whereas I'm like, fuck it. Fuck it, I'm angry, right? Yeah. Fuck it, man. I'm going to let American Airlines know. Oh, I'm going to let them know. You bet your ass.

But not this Kathy. Yeah. Kathy's nice and happy. Everyone looks at her as like, oh, she's the type of person that you immediately know she's happy and kind of brightens up a room because you know she's not seething with any sort of internal rage like we are. So she grew up in Simi Valley, California. But when she was 19, her mother and her, her mother's name is Kay, they moved to Pacific

County, Washington after her stepfather was killed in a car crash, which is rough. The bad part about it is for Kathy, also her father worked in the movie business. He was a grip, I think, of some kind or more, some kind of like set guy. Tech guy. And he died in an accident on the set of a show while filming a TV show. That's not great at all. So she's had a rough go of it with the father figures here. People dropping dead. At one point when she moves up there

to Washington, she gets a job as a manager of what everybody calls a national hairdressing chain. Which I assume is a Supercuts or what are national? Fucking Famous Sam's. Famous Sam's? Don't they make wings? I don't know what it is.

Famous Pete's, Famous Sal's, Famous Ray's. Fantastic Sam's. Fantastic. Famous? Yeah, you're right. I don't know what it is. It's famous. Peets, famous sows. Famous rays. Fantastic sams. Fantastic. That's the one. Famous rays. You get a slice and some off the side. Hey, I'm here.

You need a cut or a slice? What are you here for? I got it all. That's one thing we're good at. I brought my clippers and a pizza. That's my two grandfathers. I couldn't be more of a fucking stereotype. My grandfather's one owned a pizza place and one was a barber.

Jeez. Can you get any more stereotypical than that? I swear to Christ. And one of them saved a princess from a Koopa monster. Wow. So it's very, we're very Italian. Very Italian. That's hysterical. So she's working at a national hairdressing chain as we all dream to do.

National one. National. Oof. A manager. Syndicated fucking Oof. As a manager. Syndicated fucking haircuts. That's right. Syndicated haircuts. I love it.

That sounds fucking terrible. This cut you get in Jacksonville, same cut you're going to get in Pierre, South Dakota. Sorry. You're getting it there. We bowl cut the shit out of this country. We all train the same, baby. Same cut. No difference.

That's unbelievable. Apparently, Kathy's not very good at this job. They want her to do a hard, you know how like when you get a haircut or you take your kids to get a haircut on one of these chains and they have all the shit up front, detanglers and conditioners. Fucking products. That's how they make their money. Really? It's not on make their money. Really?

It's not in the haircuts. Really? Because they cut the hair, and then the person gets a cut. Then they upsell you the fucking gel. And then they try to sell you the gel, and that's where they make their money, because that's all profit, because it's garbage. Right. And they just sell it for $20.

Yeah. So they do that, and apparently as the manager, your sales of that sort of thing tell them how much worth you have as a manager. And she is apparently terrible at it. Kathy refuses to sell that shit. She's not good at sales. She's a nice person. If someone doesn't want the conditioner, she's like, well, I understand.

That's fine. And they're like, no, you have to make them want the conditioner. And Kathy's too nice for that. And I like Kathy for this, God damn it. Don't try to sell me that bullshit. That's right. And the kid's going, I think I need it. She said I need it.

You're fine. Your head is fine. I'm going to suave at home. Get the fuck sell me bullshit. That's right. And the kid's going, I think I need it. She said I need it. You're fine. Your head is fine. I've got suave at home. Get the fuck in the car. Shut up and get in the car. I got suave at home. Right. It's $2.

Do you understand that? You have V05. Get the fuck in the car. I'll get you the strawberry one smelling one. It's fine. Just shut up and get in the car. You're a kid. Fuck your hair. Yeah.

Who cares? So she loses her job. And at the same time, she loses her home. She loses her car. This is all tied up in her being fired. So she moves in with her mother, her grandmother. Her siblings live up there. She has brothers up there.

She starts just working as a hairdresser in South Bend, which is nearby to Raymond. Jeff Loray knows her brother. He says that she always felt like an outsider in Willapa Harbor, which is the whole area. It's a small town. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody's from here, and it's, you know, like we saw, people leave. They don't come. So people are from here. They all know each other. They all went to high school

together, and she didn't. She moved here, too, at 19, which is when minus two dads in that point in her life, too. It's like she doesn't really want to relate to people, but she wants people to include her, too. Yeah. And when you're 19, it's hard to move somewhere when you're 19, because that's that's the age where everybody is established in the groups that they're in. And then you're coming in and you don't have a group because you didn't go to school there.

So that has to be very hard to do as a person. You know, if you're looking for some sort of camaraderie. I moved out here at that age, but I didn't care. I didn't know anybody. Plus, I mean, I was happy to not have to talk to people. It was great. Fuck it. It's like, thank God.

Had enough of that shit. All those years of friends were really getting, it was grating on me. All that opening up and talking and shit. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Closeness and I can't deal with it. Remembering birthdays and fuck. Yeah, this is much easier to not have any friends.

It's way easier. So, yeah, she's having problems, basically, just trying to find her way in this whole thing. She also goes as Kathy Thomas sometimes, which is her mother's maiden name. And go by one name if you want to make friends. You know Kathy? Kathy who? Loreno. I don't know her.

I know Kathy Thomas, but I don't know who that is. They both know you. Same person. You're not helping your cause. You've got two people talking about you, and they don't realize they're talking about the same person. Yeah, not helping at all. If you want to know people, Kathy does get a job at a hair salon. And this here.

Now, we hear names. I love these small town names. We were just in Sedona, and there was like a hair hut or some shit. It was like this little terrible building. And Sarah goes, who would go in there to get their hair cut? It looks depressing. It looks like a hair hut or some shit and it was like this little terrible building and Sarah goes who would go in there to get their hair cut that looks looks depressing it looks like they like a little kidnapping chamber and that's what it is here this is called

Bobby's Beauty Bar Bobby B-O-B-B-I-E obviously Bobby's Beauty Bar in South Bend you want that alliteration big time in there you gotta trust a lady you don't want some dude named Bobby going get your hair, you fat pig. Hey, get over here.

What's wrong with your fucking head? Who cut your hair last? It wasn't me. I'll tell you that much. I wouldn't fuck you with that haircut. You're all fucking lopsided. What do you think? I did this.

No, none of my people did. You must have been at the famous Fantastic Rays over there because I know he cuts hair like shit, but he makes a fine pie. He does. His pizza's delicious. It's just syndicated haircut pizza pies. They're fucking delicious. And it's just syndicated haircut pizza pies. They're fucking great.

Syndicated haircut pizza pies. That sounds gross. That sounds like there's hair in the pizza, and you're like, I think it's good. Hold on. Is this stuffed crust? What's this stuffed with? It tastes good, but I'm just finding hair. It's so dry.

It's so dry. So 1989, she's working at Bobby's Beauty Bar, you know, living the dream. Shit, yeah. Killing it. You're living the dream when you're working at Bobby's Beauty Bar. Wrecking life. You're just destroying shit, man. It's your oyster.

The world is your oyster. Christ. Now, she meets a salon customer named Michelle Notek. They become friends. This town, apparently, it's easy to be friends with people. People actually talk to each other. I guess when you're forced to see the same goddamn people over and over again, you eventually talk to them. Eventually you become friends.

You break down and talk to them, and you're like, shit. Hasn't worked with me and neighbors or anything like that, but apparently if you're in a professional environment, that's the way it goes. Kathy at the time was having some problems. Her mother's kind of over, we'll call it over protective, over invasive, overbearing. Yeah. Just a little too enmeshed, we'll call it, over enmeshed in Kathy's life. Kathy is dating a guy that her mother doesn't like. So her mother's complaining about that, complaining about that for months. And then she starts hanging out with – Kathy starts hanging out with Michelle Notek. Kathy's how old?

Like 30 years old now? Yeah, she's literally 30 years old. She is not 12. But Kathy can be bossed around a little bit and we'll find that out that her mother's overbearing and kind of had too many opinions on her shit. And she allows that to happen. She allows people to kind of push her around a little bit and uh it's just her personality and uh so now when she becomes when kathy becomes friends with michelle no tech also from the hair salon her mother starts telling her she doesn't like michelle and she wants her to

stay away from michelle also and this was just a nice person that she met she liked michelle kathy did so she's like why am i going to stay away from her? Because you say that. No. Eventually, this all this fighting with her mother and her mother's overbearingness and telling her what to do causes Kathy to leave home. Oh, boy. She takes off. She moves in at first with her friend Carolyn Barnum.

Yeah. But then after a while there, she she she had a deal with with Barnum to babysit her kids for for basically room and board. You stay here. You watch my kids every once in a while. Be happy to stay. It's like a Cato Kaelin arrangement. Same shit.

Oh, the worst. Yeah. You watch the kids, and you can stay here. And if I cut my wife's head off, maybe you heard a noise. Maybe you didn't. We'll talk about it. One of those. We'll see what happens.

You're on my side, fucker. You're on my side, right? That's right. Okay. So anyway, after a while, though, she ends up, Michelle is pregnant, and she ends up inviting Kathy to live with her.

She says, why don't you move in to my house with me? Help me out while I'm pregnant. They have like a little farm. It's a little farmhouse. Not a lot of animals and things like that, but it's like a farm type thing, and they have, you know, that's a bigger house, and there's upkeep and things like that, and she's like a farm type thing and they have, you know, that's a bigger house and there's upkeep and things like that. And she already has two little kids.

Yeah. So she asked Kathy, can you help me out with the kids and my pregnancy and all that sort of thing. So Kathy moves in. Okay. Now, Carolyn Barnum said at this point, things got weird with Kathy a little bit. She said, quote, the closer she became friends with Michelle, the further she drifted away from her other friends.

Okay. She kind of just hung out with Michelle and became a part of her family and stayed at that house and becomes over enmeshed with their situation. She doesn't know how to be herself, be a person, separate. Yes. It's that family life, too. They were all adults. When you have a bunch of adults living together in the same house, no, the brothers, the mother, the grandmother, her, they're all living in the same house.

It's an over enmeshed family. And I feel like that's what she's used to. And now people are going to say, it's beautiful when families live together. No, it's not. It's not. Tell that to Charles Manson. Yes, exactly. Manson had a family.

I don't know. What is that from? It's a family. Manson had a family. It's an 80s movie. I can't remember what it was. Manson. Great.

But it's true, though. That's what it is. She needs to – I feel like she needs to be involved in a family, and that's what she's used to. She's used to this over-and-mesh situation. And I'm sorry. Adults, go find your own goddamn house at some point. Yeah. It's better for you.

You've got to figure – you've just got to be a person and be yourself. And you're going to get along so much better. You've got to be your own person. Right. You're going to get along so much better with your family if you don't live with them. Square footage is the key to life. It's such a key. However many square feet you are away from someone else is how long you have to be friends with them

or family with them before you want to murder them. That's hilarious. Space closes in. You need space. That's what I mean. Maybe you have to move across the country. Maybe 2,000 miles will eat up like a fuse waiting to catch up to you. Seeing those millionaire lawyers that have giant houses and never see their wife and they keep it together. Keep that marriage for 30 years.

There's a reason for that. It's because they don't see her, God damn it. That square footage is great. So if it's your brothers and your mother and your grandmother, it's even worse. You're all laying on top of each other. Somebody's going to snap. And no one's having sex with anybody either, at least in that situation. There's a sexual outlet and a component to it.

There's nothing. There's nothing. So Michelle's pregnant. Kathy moves in. She's helping out around the house. Michelle is married also. She's married to David Notek. He's a Raymond High School graduate. Of course. He's a

local boy, graduated high school in 1971. This is 89. This is all occurring. Kathy moves into their house and all that sort of thing. So he graduated in 71, like we said here. He has an interesting background too. He graduates, and he passes the test to become a priest. Okay, which isn't... There's a test. You have to know stuff. I can't be a priest. People come in and ask me questions, and I'm like,

I don't know anything about Jesus or the Lord or anything. What would the Bible say about this? It beats the shit out of me. I don't know. You should look that up. Is there an index in this thing? Hold on one second. Adultery, adultery. It says it's on a lot of pages. It beats the shit out of me. I don't know. You should look that up. I want to check the glossary. Is there an index in this thing? Hold on one second. Adultery, adultery. It says it's on a lot of pages.

It says you shouldn't do it. Yeah, it says no. I don't know what that is, I think. I can't find the part where it says being gay is bad, though. I think they made that part up, so fuck it and throw the thing aside. I don't know what to tell you. That's awesome. Like, it's not in here. Your fucking test is just like a Boy Scout's, like, can you tie these knots?

I feel like that's what it is. Yeah. They're like, name eight apostles. You're like, fuck, damn it. I had seven of them down with that eight. Shit. How many is there again? Damn it.

So I can just not have a few of them then, right? Is there ringer questions? Yeah, yeah. Is there the easy test for the dummies, though? Yeah, you think so. Just knowing Judas and just knowing, what's this picture? That's the last sub, really. Is it just really is it just really mom's name is mary something simple fucking winner jesus's dad's name is trick question trick question you're not a priest right sorry no little boys for you

he's uh he passes the test to become a priest but he doesn't join the whatever that is. The cloth. The cloth. The brotherhood. It's not the convent. It's the fucking, I don't know. Is that it? It's seminary school, isn't it?

I don't fucking know. The root word of that is like semen for a priest. No, I'm sorry. It's so creepy. That's terrible. I just thought of that. I'm like, ew. Rectory sounds a lot like a rectum.

Yeah. Do you live in the seminary or the rectory, buddy? Which one? Every time I'm in the rectory, I just want to be in the seminary. It's a weird thing. It just makes me long for the seminary. I hang in the rectory with seminary on my face. That's how it works.

That's how it works. So rather than be a priest, he says, I think I'll go to Vietnam instead, which is a big difference. Do I want to be a priest or go to Vietnam? I haven't decided. So he joins the Navy. He spends five years in the Navy. But in the Navy, he learns trade anyway. He learns he's a heavy construction guy.

So that's interesting, heavy construction. I didn't realize that they did that in the Navy. Yeah, they do underwater shit. They build, because like if you build a bridge or structures or that sort of thing. I don't know if they do have welders and shit, so I guess that makes sense. Yeah, I guess so. They must build things for themselves. I don't know. They all build shit except for the Marines, right? I don't, I, the Marines

break shit. They don't build anything. No, they break shit down. That's no offense to Marines. They'll tell you we don't build anything. We don't build shit. We break shit. So anyway, so he goes in the Navy and he learns the heavy construction trade, does a few years in Vietnam. Great. So, you know, he has a kind of a 1971 graduated from high school American.

Yeah. That's about as an American story as you can get kind of a regular small town thing. And so he's there. He meets, he met Michelle in Long Beach, which is near here. He meets her in 1977. She had just been divorced from her first husband back in Pennsylvania. And she came out here, tried to make a fresh start for herself, which is, you know, I guess what you do. She has two young daughters. So David's married to Michelle. They're happy, I guess.

I don't know. He meets her and I guess as happy as people can be. Yeah. I don't know. Whatever. He also worked for the Weyhauser Mill for a while, which is a lumber mill. Yeah. Owned by, I guess, a German man.

I'm not sure. Weyhauser. There's a lot of H's and E's and U's in there. So I'm going to assume it's a German-owned mill. So it's run very efficiently. Friends describe him as a nice guy. Everybody likes David. They say he's a pleasant guy.

He's got a good sense of humor. Just a good guy to have around. Everybody likes him. Fun on the construction site. One of those guys. He gets along with everybody. He was in the Army. He was in the Navy.

Practical joke from time to time. Yeah, he's a good guy. He's a construction worker. He's a guy. David's a good shit to go get a beer with after work. Hey, David, come on. We're going to get a beer. Let's go.

Come on. We're going to eat them pickled eggs off the counter. He tried zip ties around my driveline on my truck the other day. Made all kinds of noise. It was so funny. It's funny. Been the lockers, you know, because we had the one set we had to have our protective gear on. What he did is he cut up the inseam of my pants.

I put it on. They fell apart. It's hilarious. The guy's a jokester. He's a jokester. You know how that goes. He filled my gloves with Vaseline and shit. It's hilarious.

We all have a good time. We have fun. We have fun. You know how it is. Right. So he works. He's a construction worker. He works for Island Construction.

Okay. He's out of town all the time. Yeah. They have a lot of out-of-town jobs. It's a small town. He works for Island Construction. He's out of town all the time. They have a lot of out-of-town jobs. It's a small town. There's not a lot going on there. He has to go out of town and do jobs. So he's out of town a lot of times all week. And he'll be home on the weekends, which is probably why she needs help.

She needs people around the house with the kids and all that sort of thing. So she's got Kathy there to help out. At this time, her daughter Megan lives there with them. It's her two daughters from a previous relationship, Kathy, David, and also Michelle's cousin Shane, who is 19 years old and moves into the home with them in the early 90s. Shane's a boy. He's 19 at the time, and he's got some problems. Shane, he's a nice kid, but he's got some issues, some problems. But Kathy is part of their household.

There's tons of pictures of them together, arms around each other. Close proximity. Whole deal, yeah. And you can tell there's one of her helping her out, Kathy helping Michelle out of a chair and that sort of thing. They're smiling. And they look like, hey, this is my best friend who didn't help me is what it looks like from the pictures, which seems fine. Seems like a happy family.

She's the full-time nanny. She's their Alice from the Brady Bunch kind of thing. So they treat Alice like, oh, Alice, you know what I mean? I feel like they treat Alice like that. Although Alice had her own room downstairs. Yeah. The Brady's had a nice setup. That's an interesting point.

I don't even think I ever put that to shame. She had the mother-in-law suite down there all on her own. She lives in the house? Oh, yeah. She's a live-in maid nanny. That's amazing. Well, it was because Mike Brady's wife died, and so he hired Alice. Alice came with Mike Brady.

And then he just kept her around. Carol moved in. Carol's got it made in the fucking shade. Carol moved in and she's like, I don't like that Alice lady living in my fucking house. And he said, sorry, sweetheart. She stays. Alice knows where the bodies are buried.

She knows just how I like it, if you know what I mean. You don't worry about what Alice does. She's so lucky that Carol. Carol, yeah, Carol Brady moved in. Carol fucking Brady was crushing life. She did. She moved in. Nice architect, nice household.

Did she have a job? No, but she did charity work. A lot of charity. She was doing charity options She did. She moved in. Nice architect. Did she have a job? No, but she did charity work. A lot of charity. She was doing charity auctions all the time. She's giving away the shit. Yeah. There was a lot of charity auctions, I believe, where elephants were involved. Because she didn't have to cook and make the pork chops and applesauce.

No, she had Alice. Alice was great. So they're a happy family from what it looks like. They live in as picturesque an environment as you could possibly imagine. They live in a, it's a bright red two-story farmhouse. Yeah. On four acres of land. In a small town down a road all by itself.

Yeah. A little country road that leads to it. White picket fence all around it, Jimmy. Sure, perfect. Mailbox had faces and pink hearts on it. There are faces on it. Smiley faces. Big, you know, like hand-painted smiley faces. There are faces on it. Smiley faces. Big, you know, like hand-painted smiley faces.

This is a happy place. Happy place. Kids live here. Amazing. This is any town USA happiness right here. This is crushing life. They had six dogs. Jesus.

I guess if you have four acres, who cares at that point? I love dogs. Six dogs. They had cats, rabbits, birds. Jesus, that's too much. All sorts of shit running around. I guess dogs. Six dogs. They had cats, rabbits, birds. That's too much. All sorts of shit running around. I guess it's a farm, that sort of thing. It's four acres, so you can have a lot of animals here.

Now, David, like I said, everybody remembers him as like this kind of cool guy who was nice and funny and had a good sense of humor and was confident, you know, was just this guy you could count on. A guy named John McVeigh, who went to high school with David, said that he described him in high school as, quote, handsome, cool, and a popular guy who was nice to everyone and who everyone liked. So he's just a popular, happy guy. Small town, popular guy. He goes cruising with the top down on the weekends, back and forth down the main street looking for some ass.

That's what he does. Running on down to the Daisy Jays. Oh, you know it, man. That's how it's going. Now, McVeigh, though, he starts talking about some cracks in the facade here of how things might not be so perfect between David and Michelle. Got it. For instance, he says that since he married, that was how he described David before, cool,

popular, funny, confident. Right. After he's been married to Michelle a while, McVeigh describes him as a, quote, nervous wreck. Oh, boy. He said, quote, Dave looked like he was always looking over his shoulder. He looked paranoid. We thought he was just stressed. That's weird.

Which would make sense. He's got a job where he goes out of town a lot. He's got a wife at home. He was pregnant on and off a couple of kids. That's a far cry from the happy, popular kid in high school, though. That is. It's a far cry. But you never know.

People's stress levels are different. People change. People change. Exactly. And with kids, you don't know what the complications are. Circumstances. We don't know how stressful his job is. Traveling back and forth.

All that can be stressful. We don't know if he's visiting hookers. We don't know what he's doing. We don't know what his stress relief is. We really don't. We don't know if he could be killing hookers in the Tacoma area. We have no idea. It happened.

It's very possible. All over Washington. There's a lot of dead prostitutes in Washington is all we're going to say. You bet. And we don't know if David's responsible for any of them. And I'll tell you what. Spoiler alert. This episode does not cover any dead prostitutes.

So we're not going to accuse David of that. Fantastic. David is not an innocent guy, as we'll get into it all. But prostitutes, no. No. So you could see they just thought he was stressed. And his friends were like, ah, poor guy's having a tough run of it. You know, he's just a stressed out guy right now.

But they'll be fine. Now, on the other hand, his wife, Michelle, people don't like her very much. She's got a reputation around town that we'll talk about in a minute here. We'll talk about her in a second here. Also living there is Shane Watson, who I told you was Michelle's nephew. Right. He's 19 years old at the time he moves in with them in like about early 94. He's a nice kid.

Everybody says he's a nice kid. Nobody has a bad word to say about him. He's kind of a little slow, we'll say. He's a little kid. Nobody has a bad word to say about him. He's kind of a little slow, we'll say. He's a little touched, old David. His favorite activity is chopping wood with David. That's his favorite activity. That's not a fast time at all. No.

That's some shit when you're nine. You'd be like, I really like to chop wood with David. Then you'd be like, I want to play Nintendo. This sucks if you're in the 80s. This fun is sweaty. This is hard. Yeah, I don't want to do this anymore. 19, his favorite activity is chopping wood with his uncle. Jesus i don't want to do this anymore but 19 his favorite activity is chopping wood with his uncle you gotta find this guy a girl yeah let's just say that or something a guy so you need something introduce him to his own dick you know what weed leave

this town if there's ever a kid who needs to who needs to take up being a stoner i'm gonna say it's shame somebody introduced him to a science winner yeah. He needs a bong real bad. He'll just be like, China chopping wood with David. Screw that shit, man. Screw that shit. He enjoys this, though. This is his activity. He lived with his grandfather at that point, and his

grandfather got sick and it was just kind of hard for him to get around. So they allowed Shane to move in with David and Michelle. At that point his grandmother said, Shane's grandmother, and this is very sad, said quote, he had finally found the friend

he had always wanted. Oh, sweet Pete. Which is his 40-something year old uncle. At 19. Who he chops wood with. Good Christ. His dreams came true. He found a middle age man to chop wood with like so a middle-aged riddled with fucking anxiety all sorts of problems looking over his shoulder like a like a scared chihuahua this is perfect this is gonna be good while he's chopping wood yeah this

is my best friend oh my god uh shane's parents had gone through a bad ugly divorce yeah that's how shane ended up with his grandparents uh he grew up in Tacoma, but now he's moving to this little town, little farmhouse. They're thinking this is the answer to all of our prayers. He's going to go move in with a nice family, nice farmhouse, and chop wood till the end of time. Terrific. This is so much better than his family life at that point. Early 1994, like I said, Michelle's got a reputation.

And we'll talk about how that reputation was gained here. One of these incidents here. At that point. Early 1994, like I said, Michelle's got a reputation. Yeah. And we'll talk about how that reputation was gained here. Okay. One of these incidents here. Early 1994, Kathy Loreno is out at the mall job hunting. Yeah. Right away, terrible sign. Yeah.

Bad red flag. Yeah. She's going for like, she wants to be an assistant manager at Mrs. Fields. Yeah. She's really interested to know what's in an orange Julius. It's not good. You should see her pretzel folding ability. It's amazing. She really wants one of those central phone

case kiosks is what she's looking for. If I could sell bedazzled kiosks, my dream would be bedazzled phone cases from a kiosk. Not even any brick and mortar. Just right up the middle where everybody's walking. That's where you want to be. Because on the store, you're off to the side. You've got to get them inside for that shit. They've got to come through the door. Kios no, no. Just right up the middle where everybody's walking. That's where you want to be. See? Because on the store, you're off to the side. You've got to get them inside for that shit.

They've got to come through the door. Kiosk, man, you've got the whole aisle to play. Just grab a shirt. You play it right. You play it left. You go back and forth. You know, you try. They kind of juke them out.

Excuse me, miss. Yeah, hey, how you doing? Oh, this side, that side. See, your phone's naked. See, your phone's naked. Hey, look at that phone. You can check everybody as you go by. You can kind of herd them into the shop.

Oh, fuck. Hey, you can start on the other side of the aisle. Hey, everybody, how you doing? And just walk them toward the kiosk. You see this case over here. Your phone would look great with that on there. I think. You could start at the bathroom and walk them right to your store.

That's right. But then again, she couldn't hard sell conditioner. So she's not going to be able to sell phone cases. But she's trying. She's at the mall, Kathy is, with her friend Carolyn from before, that she lived with before. They're at the mall job hunting, and they run into Michelle out of nowhere. Really? Which seems weird, but small town.

People run into each other. They run into Michelle. Michelle seems angry from what Carolyn says. Kathy goes into the bathroom in the mall. Michelle follows her into the bathroom in the mall, which that's weird right away. But I don't know. Women go to the bathroom together.

I have no idea. Maybe they had to talk about something, whatever. But they're in there for a half hour. Jesus. Arguing. That's too long. Loudly. Off that tile.

You know that shit was like, this is a speaker out to the rest of the mall. Every time the door opened, it was like, I can't believe you. And then it closed again. Well, what about this? Every time. You opened, it was like, I can't believe you. And then it closed again. Well, what about this? Every time. You know that shit happens.

I just see the scene from Cable Guy. Yeah. When he's just fighting the dude. Yeah. That's what's going on here. She's putting her face on the hair dryer. Under the sink. Splashing powder on her face and water. Somebody's coming out with blue shit all over the shirt from the toilet.

So this goes on for a half hour before Kathy emerges from the bathroom, kind of hanging her head and looking, as Carolyn put it, quote, visibly shaken. She lost the argument. Apparently she lost the argument. Things didn't go well. And she got the swirly. She's got the blue all over. All over. That's how go well and she got the swirly. Yeah. So I got the blue all over. That's how you could tell she lost. So Kathy then tells Carolyn meekly, quote, I'm going

home with Michelle. Yeah. So she they argue for a half hour. She comes out of a public bathroom visibly shaken and says, I'm going home with this person who argued with me in a public bathroom for a half hour. That's bananas. It's very weird. OK, what's even weirder is and Carolyn's worried about her, and she should be worried about her because that is the last time she ever sees Kathy. Wow. Ever. Never sees Kathy again.

Wow. Last thing she saw of her was, I'm going home with Michelle and wandering away. Now, this is why people are starting to get now a little suspicious of Michelle, that she's kind of a bad person. Yeah. She is known around town, not so affectionately, as Crazy Shelly. Perfect. So she's Crazy Shelly.

I mean, that's what the people in town call her. There was a guy on my street when I was a kid named Crazy Dave who would kick the grass out of the cracks in the sidewalk and then yell at it, telling him, telling the grass, I told you not to grow here. Yeah. And that's the same nickname that this woman has. That's crazy show. That's crazy show.

Yeah. We had a guy like that. We had Crazy Hawkeye. He looked like Alan Alda, circa MASH era, and he wore an army jacket. Perfect. He wore one of the green, not the camouflage ones, like the green MASH era army jacket. With the name on it. And he was shit-faced drunk, and he would always tell you how he was in the army.

So we were like, okay, crazy Hawkeye. We know Hawkeye. He was crazy Hawkeye. And he knew his name was Crazy Hawkeye. And we were like, you look like Hawkeye, but you're crazy. And he accepted that. We told him that, and he goes, all right, you got a point. Sometimes crazy knows they're crazy.

Shelly is not one of those people. Green jacket over a flower dress. Yeah. So she's not one of those people. People say over a flower dress. Yeah. So she's not one of those people. People say she can come across as very caring, but it's all an act. They say she's very manipulative. And people said that she plays mind games, quote, mind games with everyone. When I hear that, I think whoever says the word mind games is crazy. That's what I think about it. That's like saying,'s like saying the government's sending microwaves into my brain and it's extracting my thoughts. I have so much Reynolds wrap at home.

That's what I mean. Yeah, I have a making a tinfoil hat. It's going to be great, but it's not done yet. So I got to be careful what I think right now. I still got a couple more layers to put on it. Yeah, mind games thinks, oh, they play mind games, huh? Everyone knows that crazy person who's like, I hate my job. They play mind games with me.

And you're like, oh, they do, huh? Do they? Okay, then. Sure. Everybody knows that person. Her mind games, though, I found out she actually did play mind games. Yeah. And this is a good way to put it.

Not really mind games. It's more just child abuse, really, if you think about it. Euphemisms, I guess. Tomato, if you think about it. You can, you know, it's euphemisms, I guess. Tomato, tomato. Tomato, tomato. She would take parts of her kids' homework out of their folders while they were sleeping. Okay. Okay, they'd have their homework done.

Let's say they had five pages of homework. She'd yank two of them out, put it back in the folder, walk away. Yeah. And then let them go to school and find out, where the fuck is the rest of my homework? I did my homework. I know I did it. Why is the middle part missing? Why would I do the beginning and the end?

Obviously, there's a middle. Or she would just steal their homework altogether. And they thought they did it. They go into school. Everybody get their homework out. Sure, no problem. I don't have mine. And then they get in trouble at school.

School would call them liars. Kids would get home and say, you know I did my homework. I did it at the table. I had my homework done. And then Michelle would yell at them and call them liars and call. Kids would get home and say, you know, I did my homework. I did it at the table. I had my homework done. And then Michelle would yell at them and call them liars and call them stupid. Boy, oh boy. So she would cause the problem just so she could be mad at them for it. That's not a mind game, though.

That's just fucking straight up abuse. It's just abusive parenting. That's terrible. But I guess if you're going to call, if anything is a mind game, I guess you could stretch that into a mind game. That's as close to it as it gets, for sure. Yeah. If someone's doing that to you, then you go, all right you could stretch that into a mind game. That's as close to it as it gets, for sure. Yeah, if someone's doing that to you, then you go, all right, I guess that's a mind game. But that's just abusive, and it doesn't stop there for Michelle with her kids either.

That's kind of the nicest she is to her kids. She locked her daughter Megan in closets and would only give her old food to eat. Stale food, old food, nothing fresh. That's illegal. Yeah, for a couple days at a time you can't do that uh and give her old food and that's that's actually uh you would want that you'd that's preferable yeah to what else she would do oh my god she would wake them up in the middle of the night which right away if you're a parent your children are sleeping and you're waking them up you're crazy i'm sorry you're a lunatic you don't like silence yeah you're right away i

think you have a problem because i anyone who goes near those kids room like you're out of your fucking mind they're sleeping stop got them to sleep leave them alone don't wake them up jesus christ you're ruining it yeah it's like it's like growing a flower and that's super pretty then kicking it like hot like crazy dave and i told you not to grow there. Why? That's so counterproductive. You planted this. I don't understand it. So what she would do is this crazy person would wake these kids up in the middle of the night, drag them out of bed, take them outside, make them crawl around in the mud. No.

Because they had made messes in the house earlier in the evening that she had to clean. Now it's going to make it worse. Now they're going to track mud in, in addition to whatever else they did. Now, if there was no mud, if it was dry and it's Washington, so most of the time there's mud. But sometimes. Sometimes there's not. She would say, no problem.

And get the hose out. And make it. And spray them and spray the ground. So there's mud and tell them to crawl and call them pigs. Wow. And even in the winter, she would do this. It could be 40 degrees outside. She's spraying the kids down with hoses, telling them to crawl in the mud in the middle of the night.

And they're calling them pigs. Yeah. You know how kids are when you wake them up. They don't know where they are. She's dragging them outside and making them do this in their pajamas. She doesn't even let them put coats on or anything. She would beat the kids. Of course.

Of course, obviously. She would beat the kids so severely that they would have to wear long sleeves to school. And in gym class, they couldn't wear shorts because they had bruises all over their legs. God damn it. Stuff like that. She also beat Kathy. Of course. Who is a little meek.

Yeah. And we found out is kind of. Timid. Yeah. She can be overwhelmed. Yeah. She can be by force of force of personality. She can be kind of kowtowed a little bit.

And also she just pretty much beat kowtowed a little bit. And also, she just pretty much beat anyone she could get her hands on. Good Christ. She liked to beat everyone in the house. This was her domain, this house. She is a monster. She's a monster. And don't get me wrong. This isn't just about her.

David will find out he's a monster as well. The whole thing. And it's funny because we get a lot of emails, and you'll know this. We get a lot of emails from women'll know this. We get a lot of emails from women because we have most of our listeners are women. It's great. We love you. We love you. And it seems like half of them are lesbians. They're not half lesbians. Lesbians love us as we know. So anyway, women always say, why do you do like one out of six of these are women? We kill the shit out of people just as much as what the hell?

You don't kill as much as guys. No, you don't. Trust me. I know the facts and the stats. You don't. But it's true. There's a lot of women murderers. So we're trying to do some with women involved.

This is kind of a we'll find out in a couple thing. We'll get into this. But we're trying to switch it up and accommodate you. Trying to appease you. Trying to appease a little bit here with this. So anyway, she's doing all these horrible things. She's beating Kathy. She's beating the kids.

She's making them go outside. Shirley Notek, who is Dave's mother, said that before he met Michelle, he was dumped by another woman that he was very much in love with. Oh, boy. So he had his heart broken and then met Michelle and kind of settled down quickly with Michelle. That old chess man. Yeah, that whole thing. But at the time, too, Michelle was considered very pretty back then. And he's a weird-looking guy.

He looks like Diamond Dallas Page, this guy. A little squirrely. Yeah. Imagine Diamond Dallas Page if he was poor. A normal guy. The yoga guy now, you'dly. Yeah. Imagine Diamond Dallas Page if he was poor. A normal guy. The yoga guy now you'd say. If he didn't have bleach in his hair and

weird jewelry on and shit. Stupid necklaces and making a diamond cutter sign like a jackass the whole fucking time with his stupid yoga. Yeah. So she said he was dumped by another woman. His mother said quote he was on the rebound. He was sad and Michelle was friendly.

You know how it goes. Yeah. He met a nice girl who made him forget about his problems. Of course. That's what men do. They look for another woman to replace whatever they've lost, and that's what they do. She says that her son was so unhappy that he would volunteer to stay away as much as possible. Really?

Week at a time construction jobs and that sort of thing. That was his vice. He did that on purpose. Jesus. Like, no, no, I can do it. I'll cover that. Yeah. I'm out.

Where are we? How long? Six days? Nope. Got it. I'll be there. I'm going to be gone a whole long time. No per diem, I'll take it.

It's fine. It's fine. I'll sleep in my truck. Right. No big deal. His mother said of him, quote, he stayed because of the girls. He's a loyal man. So she's saying stayed because of the daughters here. Now, Diana Watson is Michelle Notek's stepmother, also Shane Watson's grandmother. She said that Michelle was prone to wild lies and, quote, angry outbursts. She would tell crazy

stories. And this is the most, out of everything, this to me says the most crazy when someone does this particular thing here. This woman, her stepmother said, quote, she told everyone in the family that she had cancer and David went right along with it. It didn't matter what Shelley would lie about. He'd stick up for her. Asshole.

Only you have to be a special kind of sick person to tell everyone you have cancer when you don't have cancer. That's awful. That is the worst thing you could do, trying to get sympathy out of everybody. It's like the fucking karma in that. It's disgusting. Holy shit, I hope you get cancer now. If you're doing anything like that, you're just a complete cocksucker.

You're terrible. And he would go along with it. He knew she didn't have cancer. That's just as bad. Yeah, she's got cancer. I mean, I don't care. He can say that he's afraid of her or whatever, but at some point, no, you're not. You're not a child.

You're a grown man that can go, listen, lady, fuck you. I'm not fucking – she doesn't have cancer, okay? And if you try to fuck with me later, I'm going to knock you out. Nobody punch each other. But, you know, if she tries to kill him or something, I mean, in the middle of the night or some shit, like, leave me alone. You don't have cancer. Stop hitting the kids. Stop it.

And I'm sorry. If you drag my kids out of bed in the middle of the night and beat them and take them outside and make them crawl around in the mud, I might punch you. I don't care what fucking gender you are. For sure. That's messed up. I'm sorry. I'll go to the dirt.

For sure. That hasn't crossed. That situation's never come up yet. Thank goodness. That might be the exception to don't hit a woman. I'm not sure. Might be. I'm not sure. Might be.

I'm not positive. Drowning the kids or just hurting them. Something like that. Anything like that. So, yeah, totally crazy. Another woman, a woman named Tracy Flynn, who lives in Raymond, said Michelle and she had gotten in a fender bender with Michelle and called Michelle extremely persistent and said that she stalked her, said that Michelle stalked her. This was a minor fender bender. I guess Michelle wanted this Flynn woman to pay for the repairs, even though the police couldn't determine fault and there wasn't much to repair anyway. Michelle would follow her.

Oh, my God. Show up at her job. No. And this woman said that at her mother's house even. Oh, my Christ. This woman said literally, I'd look in my rearview mirror and Michelle was always there. She's just there. Just crazy eyes.

That's crazy Shelly. That's crazy Shelly. No wonder why you get that reputation. That is nuts. Yeah, it's insanity. Insanity. So they continue. This abuse continues of Kathy Loreno.

Yeah. This is the bad shit, by the way. This abuse. It's terrible fucking things what they're doing to this woman. And now imagine her in the mall getting drug into a bathroom and argued with and then coming out meekly saying I'm going home with Michelle.

You wonder what would cause a grown woman to be that broken down? Let's find out exactly. This is horrible. This is the abuse. This is what David and Michelle were doing to Kathy. And I don't care if it wasn't David's idea. He did this shit too.

They would hit and slap her, including numerous blows to the head. They would drag her across the ground, pull her hair. They poisoned her. Oh, my God. Forced her to submit to bizarre, quote, treatments such as bleaching and salting to clean her wounds and ingesting salt and prescription medications that were not okay for her, forced her to live and work outdoors in harsh weather conditions while minimally clothed or naked until she became hypothermic.

My Christ. They would make her stay out there until she got hypothermia, then they'd take her in. This is while they were starving her, and as punishment, they would force her stay out there until she got hypothermia. Then they'd take her in. This is while they were starving her. And as punishment, they would force her to immerse herself in cold water or mud. This is torture is what they're doing. That is disgusting. They're torturing this woman systematically. How crazy is it that – I hate even using the word crazy.

But how do you get – how do you – right. How do you get to be able – how do you get so far – Crazy is what crazy does, man. This is crazy. How do you get to a point where Crazy is what crazy does, man. How do you get to a point where somebody that you will just allow this to happen to you? This is so shitty. Not only that, they got to the point where this was normal for David and Michelle, where Michelle's like,

alright, we're going to go beat her and put her in the water again. He's like, alright. That's normal for them. Like, oh, we're going to go grab a bottle of wine and sit by the fire. Can we do the mud thing again tonight? It's routine. What the fuck? It's fucking routine.

Unbelievable. It's routine to the point where this is how abuse happens, though. This is what people abuse when they do the Stanford prison experiment. They saw what people do with it. After a while, when it becomes habit and you think it's okay and you think that it's fine, people are monsters. They really are. And this is obviously not regular people who are put in a weird situation to become monsters.

This is obviously just a monster all on her own. It has nothing to do with medical or anything. She's crazy. As a result of all of this, Kathy loses 100 pounds. And she was a heavy set woman before that. But now she is skin and bones. That's awful. She's very short, Kathy.

And she lost 100 pounds. Fuck. She also, her teeth fell, and she lost 100 pounds. Fuck. She also, her teeth fell out. Her hair fell out. Oh, my God. She looks like she's sick. She looks like she's dying. She looks like she's being beaten every day.

She looks like she's being starved and beaten and poisoned and forced to treat wounds with bleach and sleep outside. Her teeth fell out. Teeth and hair fell out. Oh, my God. Also, mentally, she declined as well as physically. Her brain wasn't working Teeth and hair fell out. Oh my God. Also mentally she declined as well as physically. Her brain wasn't working as well. I can imagine. But toward 1993

she couldn't walk or talk. Oh boy. One side of her face had drooped and her vision was significantly decreased. Jesus. Like she might have had a stroke from all of this abuse and went totally untreated. And she was constantly covered in vomit. Jesus Christ.

She's just walking around drooping, unable to speak, bald, no teeth, 100 pounds less, covered in vomit. Fuck. This poor fucking woman. This is horrible. 1992 comes around. In 1992, this is before all of this, late 92, Shane is living there. Like we said, Shane Watts and the nephew, he starts documenting this abuse. Oh, boy.

He starts taking photos of Kathy of all this abuse secretly behind their back, documenting all this. Problem is Michelle finds the pictures. What do you think happens to Shane? Jesus. He's going to disappear. Shane is severely beaten yeah severely severely beaten and uh two weeks later nobody can find shane oh no he disappears off the face of the earth two weeks later after that after he finds she finds that he had uh documentation of uh of the abuse

of kathy he was gonna tell he was probably gonna at least he had proof yeah uh now his grandfather who still loves him his grandfather keeps trying to reach him. Yeah. They're all looking for him. They're friends, relatives. Shane was a well-liked kid. People liked Shane. He was a nice kid.

The grandfather likes him. Everybody did. They keep asking, hey, where's Shane? And when they ask about Shane, she says that either he moved in with some girl that he met. He found some chick. He found some chick. They moved in, man, hot and heavy. Got him some strange.

Or multiple different occasions, Michelle told relatives that he was, quote, fishing in Alaska. So he's just off on a big, he's catching halibut the size of his torso. Don't bother him. He's super happy. His favorite thing two weeks ago was chopping wood. Nope, now it's. And now it's fucking fishing excursions. Now it's...

Not just like going down to the creek and pulling trout. Now it's fishing trips and poontang. That's all he's after now. He's fucking switched it up. He's really grown up in the last two weeks. Switched it up. We're real proud of him. That's right, man.

Jesus Christ, man. What the fuck? He loves fish so much. So much. No idea the level of fish love. He's looking for poon and fish. That's all he cares about. It's tough.

Unbelievable. Oh, man. So spring of 1994. Yeah. Kathy's family is looking for her. The slow kid. The slow kid. Two weeks ago.

So slow. He came out of his shell, man. We really cracked him open up here. He was like Urkel when they put nice clothes on him. Two weeks ago. So slow. He came out of his shell, man. We really cracked him open up here. He was like Urkel when they put nice clothes on him. Turned into, he was like, yeah, baby, how you doing? Chopping wood? No, no, baby, that's the old Shane.

New Shane don't chop wood. Fishing and pussy, that's me. That's all me. New Shane gets pussy down by the river while he's trout fishing. That's right. That's what new Shane does. Yeah, honey. Honey, why don't you come with me? I got a little stank on this thing and then I

use this as bait. We're going to go fish and smell that. The halibut can. Yeah. Got a real deep voice. He said, come on, baby. We're going fishing now. Very, very white. Yeah, he turned like black and smooth and cool. He said, baby,

we're going fishing now. I'm going to show you how to get the mud cat. Oh, yeah. Put on some Curtis Mayfield in the background. It's all smooth. He's like, what the fuck? What's happening? Awesome.

So people would come over for Shane. He's off fishing. He's off with that girlfriend again. Where do they live? I don't know. I don't know. Who knows? They're wild, crazy kids.

So Kathy's family can't reach her at all either. They try in spring of 1994. They go to her house. They talk to her. Michelle claims that Kathy moved to California with her truck driver boyfriend. All right. Gone. Truck driver. You know how that goes.

You know how that goes. Sorry. Now, so what happens is they can't find her, so her mother just reports her missing. It's fine. I can't find her. She hasn't checked in with me at all. Never heard of a truck driver. Never.

Don't know how that works. So she puts ads in the Willapa Harbor Herald, the paper there with a picture of Kathy asking for anybody's help. They report her to the police missing, the whole deal. Her brother, Jeffrey, says, quote, We knew something was suspicious. Kathy hadn't called. She hadn't been around. So the family is very suspicious. They they the family saying that Michelle did something.

Michelle and David did something to our daughter. And the cops are like, I don't know what to tell you. They go to the house. Yeah, she's in her mid 30s. All they can do is go to the house. They talk to Michelle. Michelle says she left a couple years ago. She moved away with her long-haul

trucker boyfriend, and she literally showed the cops a picture of Kathy with a man standing in front of a semi-truck. This is her. This is a man. It's a semi-truck. Story checks out. As far as if you're the cops, you go, all right, what else can you do?

Do some police work and find that guy. I guess, but there's no signs of foul play. At this point, she's a woman in her mid-thirties with an over-invasive family that moved away and didn't want to talk to them anymore. Got a point. What the fuck? And Michelle's saying no, she's fine. She found some guy and she's happy she moved away. Her family's a pain

in the ass. As far as the cops are concerned, it's cut and dry. It's cut and dry. She's moved away. Her family's a pain in the ass. As far as the cops are concerned, it's cut and dry. She's an adult. Let her be. That's what they said. Maybe they don't want to see. She said the cops told her mother, maybe she doesn't want to see you anymore. Have you ever thought of that? She's allowed to do that. Maybe you're an asshole. Have you ever thought of that? Maybe you made her do

shit she didn't want to do and told her she couldn't hang out with people. They can't do much to the family, except they hire a private investigator at the time. And the private investigator concludes that Kathy's probably dead. And they considered Michelle the only real suspect, Michelle and David. There's no other place. The private investigator's pretty good.

She seems better than the police. The police were like, eh. They just shrugged their shoulders. Got me. I've only met one private investigator in my entire life that made me uh and and he made me fucking hate that whole that whole idea they're weird people they're weird people i know i know i used to serve i used to be a process server i know a lot of private investigators so weird very strange people it's an odd it's an odd breed it's guys that can't fucking listen to a boss tell them what to do it's so they're just gonna go do whatever they

want it's dudes that love to sit in their car. That's what it is. Every private investigator, their car stinks like crotch and corn chips. It's the worst fucking thing. Like, do you live in here? Right. Do you ever leave here? I mean, at least for 15 hours a day, they do. Fucking disgusting, man.

So now, Michelle, while this goes on, Kathy's just missing. Yeah. They don't know. Shane, nobody's seen Shane. Time goes on. 1995 and in 1998, Michelle is arrested for driving under the influence. At the time, she pleaded guilty in the first case. And the other case, she completed the conditions of a deferred prosecution.

And other than that, she has no known criminal history. So they're not looking at her as like, oh, well, she's obviously. Yeah, she's no known criminal history. Really? So they're not looking at her as like, oh, well, she's obviously. Yeah, she's clearly fucking up everywhere else. She just looks like some lady who lives in a farmhouse and has some kids, and these people are crazy. They take in these wayward people. They disappear. They're shady, wayward, shifty people. Right.

And then the families go, I don't know where they went. And then obviously these nice people, it's not their fault. Right. Not their problem. We can't put them under the microscope. Yeah. They're just being nice. That's all. Some interesting things here. In 2000,

April 2000, Michelle gets a job as a she's employed by the Olympic Area Agency on Aging. She's a case aide. What she does, this is for vulnerable adults receiving publicly funded services. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, this is

what she wants. People who can't defend themselves around her. Her duties were to provide information and referrals for clients seeking help, but she occasionally visited clients at their home. Oh, my God. It ends up the agency terminates Michelle's employment in June 2001. This is a little more than a year later. She says by, quote, mutual agreement, they say by due to, quote, mutual agreement, they say by

due to, quote, consistently poor performance and for being unreliable and inconsistent. And she agreed. And she said, I agree, mutual. We both feel that I'm consistently poor and I'm very unreliable and I'm consistent for shit. But they don't say that

she is violent or out of the ordinary. She's just kind of a fuck-up at her job. She's not really, she's a slacker. She's not a good employee. They said they don't say that she is violent or out of the ordinary. She's just kind of a fuck up at her job. She's not really, she's a slacker. She's not a good employee. They said they don't believe that anyone who came in contact with her was in jeopardy or anything like that. Okay. She was just kind of a shit employee. Got it. Now, at the same time she's terminated,

right around that time they fire her, they get another person moving into the house here. Oh boy. This is a man named Woody. Okay. Woody. This is Ronald man named Woody. Okay. Woody. This is Ronald Woodworth, and they call him Woody. Yeah. He is an older guy. Yeah.

He's in his mid-50s at the time. Okay. He's a little guy, 5'6", but real thin. Yeah. And kind of not real stout. He's a thin kind of a- Easy to push around. Easy to push around, older guy. Yeah.

Starting to have a little mental issues with this guy. It's very odd. He's one of these guys that's super smart. He grew up in California. He was in the Vietnam War. He went to UC Berkeley. So he's a very smart guy. He went to Berkeley. He's an expert in Egyptology, which we had an issue with when we did this the

first time because you said, what the hell is that? And I said, the study of egypt and you said that's too obvious there's no way that's what it is that was your answer i never thought that's what it was that's too obvious no i mean they they do say egypt and then in there but it can't be just study of egypt right why would we do that no it is the study of Egypt. I don't know why we care. He cares a lot. He does. He's got a friend, a friend of his says that he was a good, smart guy, very

smart. He quit his civilian job with the, he had a civilian job with the Air Force. Yeah. And he moved to Willapa Harbor when his parents got older and he brought them there to kind of take care of them. Nice guy. His friend said, quote, he was no dummy. There was nothing stupid about that man at all. Yeah. He moved up there. Like he said, he's taking care of his mother Nice guy. His friend said, quote, he was no dummy. There was nothing stupid about that man at all. He moved up there. Like he said, he's taking

care of his mother. At this point, his wife leaves him during this time, and he went through some issues. He moves up here. A lot of life changes. Moves up, out of his deal. Wife leaves him. He starts to get a little bit wacky. They said he grew

erratic. His hygiene started getting bad. People just figured he was becoming mentally ill. And that seems like it was mentally ill. He could probably for sure chalk it up to that. Yeah. He didn't have any money because he kept getting fired from jobs. He couldn't keep jobs because he was too erratic. He got arrested for trying to pass bad checks.

In 1999, he was evicted forcibly from a mobile home. Oh, no. He got forcibly booted out of a trailer. That's some rock bottom shit. Rock bottom. He moves in with his mother at that point. So he's in his 50s and he loses his trailer and moves in with his mother. Not just loses it.

They walked him out. Yeah. They said, get all your things, sir. He had a pile of his shit sitting outside the house like Dookie from The Wire. The fucking sheriff's office knocked on the door and said, you are no longer allowed to be here. You are not good enough for this trailer.

Go to your mom's house. Shit. That is terrible. He worked as a proofreader for the local paper for a while. People liked him a lot there. He was in the Lions Club before that, did a lot of volunteer work. He can read hieroglyphics, which is where Egyptology comes in. But you have to be pretty smart to be able to learn how to read hieroglyphics, I feel like.

Or just bored and not get it. You have to really focus. It's the level of focus and concentration you have to have on some shit that means nothing in your life. It's not like, oh, if I get this, I'll get more money or I'll get a tangible thing I can think of. Or I'll save the planet or some shit. He just wanted to know this information. What were they trying to say? Super weird.

It's ridiculous. He wore kind of costume jewelry with huge gemstones in them. He was a character. This is a small town character type of guy. He like we said, he had the check fraud problems for a minute there. In 2001, four different people applied for anti-harassment protection orders against him. Four. Four different people.

One of them was his ex-wife who had a domestic violence issue against him. But police could never find him to serve him papers. They thought that he – they were told from several different sources that he moved to Thurston County. So they just gave up trying to serve him. They were just like, well, Woody's gone. Fuck it. And they threw the papers on a shelf and they assumed he wasn't in the county anymore. He didn't live there.

So they were just like, well. Now, other things he did that was a little weird. One neighbor said he liked to hide in ditches and jump out didn't live there. So they were just like, well, no other things he did that was a little weird. One neighbor said he liked to hide in ditches and jump out to frighten people. Just, that's a game.

That's a game for him. They're going to come now. I got him. All right, then I win. You lose. What do you do after that? You scare them.

They go, ah, and you go, ah, and then you just stand there and they go, all right, then,

and you walk back. All right. What's the next step? Ah, you got me. You got me. And then he just goes, gotcha. And they go, ah. And then you just stand there and they go, all right, then. And you walk back. All right. What's the next step? Ah, you got me. You got me. And then he just goes, got you. And they go, yep. All right.

And everybody moves along. What would you do? I got to hide again. Yeah. What if you complimented him on it? Would he stop? Nice job. He'd be like, damn, that's a good one.

I didn't even see it. He'd be like, finally. That's the only reason I do this. That's what I've been waiting for. I've been doing this for six weeks, every fucking day, waiting for one person to copy my technique. Finally. Fine. Now I'll stop.

Okay? These all thought I was crazy, but I just wanted, I needed a little recognition. I just wanted fucking positive reinforcement. I just needed recognition, man. That's all it is. So they thought he was gone. One of his neighbors said, quote, he was living a different lifestyle than the folks around here. No shit.

I guess so here. But the no-techs become friends with him. He becomes, he starts to- You're our kind of guy. You're our kind of fella. Come on in. He jumped out of a ditch and scared them. They're like, you want a place to stay?

You know what? You're border material. Come on in. You like kids? You ever played in the mud in the midnight hour? You will. Don't worry. Come on in. You like kids? You ever played in the mud in the midnight hour? You will. Don't worry. Come on in.

So they began spending a lot of time together. He began spending a lot of time at the house when David's away. He'll do a lot of chores and things like that around the house. He even helped her take care of her elderly parents. So he's a nice guy. His mother, Woody's mother, who was like 90 at the time, said, quote, their friendship just blossomed. They got along like brother and sister, him and Michelle, Woody and Michelle. So he moves in with them in 2002.

This was also his mother had to get a—this was right after his mother got a restraining order against him, and he had to move out of the house. He has nowhere else to go. Yeah, his mother said, quote, he was stalking me, watching me, watching every move I made. go yeah his mother said quote he was stalking me watching me watching every move i made so yeah he uh he the reason why he was pissed at her because he wasn't she wasn't taking good enough care of his two cats oh for fuck's sake he sent her angry profanity laced letters about it you fucking bitch with my cats i mean horrible things it was crazy you're in your 50s dude take care of your own cats and yeah right but the mother here blamed Michelle for this. Of course.

Blamed Michelle, said she wasn't like this before. Now, what he did, he began harassing staffers at the Olympic Area Agency on Aging. Really? Where she used to work. He would pop out and yell at them and do like pop out of a ditch. Yeah, and scare them. He would talk about saying, quote, heads will roll. Wow.

He would say, Mount Vesuvius will blow. He was like being some really biblical about this shit. That's hilarious. He made references to the devil, hell, and retribution at the Olympic Area Agency for the Aging. Bunch of people making $12 an hour trying to file paperwork to keep old people from dying in their houses. A bunch of people that don't get Mount Vesuvius jokes. He's like, heads will roll. And they're like, huh?

What? I'm on my – I have a half hour for lunch. If it's going to roll, can we do it after five? Because I only get a half hour. If I get the sandwich, I got to like eat it on the way back. I don't even have time to like sit at my desk and eat it. So this is – I got to punch in with an actual clock. It goes clang when I punch.

That's how depressing this is. You son of a bitch. So he's harassing them, uh, the whole deal. Uh, now also at this point he's living in the house and, uh, the kids start to see abuse of him. They're abusing Woody also, this old guy, they're abusing him. Uh, he started to decline mentally, mentally and physically. A lot of people said that this is what the kids said that they would do to him, which is terrible. His feet were plunged into boiling water until the skin came off. What? Can you fucking imagine the cruelty you have to do?

He was made to jump in bare feet from a height onto hard gravel. They'd make him jump off a second story with bare feet onto the gravel. Forced him to work in the yard barefoot wearing only a bathrobe and a hat. Why'd they give him a hat? That's what I want to think. I feel like that was negotiated. They were like, you're getting a bathrobe and that's it.

And he's like, can I at least have a hat? And they're like, fine, here. He wanted shoes. They wouldn't give him shoes. So he took a hat. He's like, fuck it. I'll wear the hat. That's terrible. I've got no skin on my feet.

Can I at least keep the skin on my head? Jesus Christ. What the fuck? David would beat and punch Woody in the face and mouth. So, I mean, this is fucking terrible, man. Yeah. So, I mean, this is this is fucking terrible, man. 2001 people, the family, Kathy's family are back on it again trying to find Kathy. But they haven't seen her in years, years. They check with all these relatives, everything like that. People are the detective. They got a private detective again asking around about her.

They inquire with another detective and he says this, this is a police detective, he says, quote, he's working on the case, but he was swamped. He said they were tied up in a big trial right now, so it was tough to do. His brother, or Kathy's brother, Jeff, said, quote, they didn't do nothing. They just put her case on the back burner. She is, they're not happy about that, obviously. So now there's another guy that she starts hanging out with, Michelle, an 81-year-old man named Mac. So now they got Mac and Woody.

Okay. These are Disney characters that have little dolls. This is James Mac McClintock. Okay. Who's 81 years old. Jimmy, he's a Pearl Harbor veteran. Fuck. He's a veteran of Pearl Harbor.

He's a legit hero. He was bombed by the Jap of fucking knees, this man. Do you understand that? Literally bombed into being awake by Japanese. How many people in this country have been bombed by the Japanese on American soil? I think there's no more left, matter of fact. Not a lot of people. Well, he's one of them, this guy.

He's 81 at the time. Ben Affleck played him in a movie once. This is crazy. He's a retired merchant crewman. He's a at the time. Ben Affleck played him in a movie once. This is crazy. He's a retired merchant crewman. He's a widower. People love him. Very popular guy. His name's Mac. He's a cool old guy. He has the best fucking stories ever. He does. And he's like,

he's this guy. You'll know when I talk about him. You'll know who he is. He had to put his wife in a nursing home. And so he lived alone ever since. He has a black Labrador named Sissy. He's in a Labrador named Sissy that he walks all. He's in a cart and he takes Sissy out on walks. Everybody knows him and Sissy. She's a sweet black lab.

Mac loved the dog so much that he said he wanted Sissy buried next to him. Oh, Jesus. That's how much he's got with this dog. Loves the dog. Well, that's all he's got left. Yeah. It's his favorite thing. Now he's got the dog.

In the few years leading up to this, he had a bunch of strokes and a bunch of heart problems so he could only get around in a motorized cart. He often fell out of his motorized cart and needed medical aid. In a three to four year period, he called for medical aid 70 times. Wow!

Never seriously injured, but he called for help 70 times. 70 times. 70, which is a, but he called for help 70 times. 70 times. 70, which is a fucking shitload. In four years. Four years. That's a lot. That's so much. I feel like he's just bored and lonely.

That's once a month. That's like him just calling, being like, I want to go out tonight. Can one of you guys give me a ride? I better be. Yeah, I fell out of the chair again. I can't get up. I've fallen and I can't get up. Right.

Can you take me to Dairy Queen? Yeah. Meanwhile, he's just clicking through the channels. He's bored. He's like, let's see whose baby this is. He's waiting for the red and blue lights to show up in the curtains so that he can jump out of the chair and be like, pick me up. Oh, help me.

I'm in here. I'm in here. Right. So September of 2001, Mac hired Michelle to care for him. Yeah. Because that's the perfect person. When you think care, you think Michelle, no tech. Neighbors would have hurt.

This is what I don't understand. Neighbors heard Michelle screaming at him abusively several times. Yeah. Screaming at the top of her lungs at him from around the house. Awful. And no one does anything. Nothing. They're like, oh, yeah, let Mac get abused and yelled at by the lady who's working for

him. Now, Mac writes a will. Yeah. He leaves his estate to his dog, Sissy. Okay. It's about $150,000 house. Yeah. And also leaves $5,000 in a trust to care for the dog.

Yeah. And leaves all of that to Michelle. Okay. Leaves Michelle the dog and the $5,000. And he listed her as a friend. Mack willed Michelle ownership of his estate to take place when the dog dies. Oh, boy. So as soon as the dog drops dead, Michelle's going to get $150,000 property.

Or the five grand runs out and that dog can't eat anymore. Either one. Yeah. When that dog's dead, she's getting a fucking house by hook or by crook here. February 9th, 2002, Mac falls in his home. Luckily, Michelle's there. Hey, what a convenient thing. She calls 911. The police chief,

there's police there, police said that Mac, they try to help him, he dies at the scene. Oh, fuck. He dies in his home. That's a hard fall. It's a hard fall. They said he lived long enough to talk to deputies and he didn't say anything bad happened to him at all. And then Sissy just tossed herself downstairs.

That's it. Well, we'll find out. Okay. The death certificate here lists the cause of death as acute subdural hematoma, blunt impact to the head. Oh, my God. Which whenever you watch like the first 48 or something and somebody kills a toddler and they have blunt impact to the head and they go, well, he fell off the couch.

And they're like, yeah, that doesn't cause blunt fucking impact to the head. He fell out of a chair, blunt impact to the head. And they go, well, he fell off the couch. And they're like, yeah, that doesn't cause blunt fucking impact to the head. He fell out of a chair, blunt impact to the head, which seems shady. At that point, the medical examiner ruled the manner of death undetermined. And the doctor referred the death to the Pacific County coroner, who happens to also be the county's prosecuting attorney, which is hilarious. That's some small-town shit. He's got a lot of shit to do. Yeah, that's some small-town shit right now. Hold on, I've got to do this autopsy.

Yeah, wait a second. Jesus, what the fuck? Christ, man. That's exactly what it is, too. He's got so much going on. That's too much. He's like a taxidermist on the side. He's got all sorts of shit happening.

Christ almighty. Well, we're the drive-thru. Pull forward and he's doing an autopsy. Hold on. I'm giving an estimate on somebody's deck to repair. I've got to repair that. I've got a lot of shit going on here. What do you need, a set of white walls? You're going to have to wait online. I've got those in the back. Let me write up this insurance policy for you, too.

Good lord, man. I'm a man of many parts. He's got a lot going on, this guy. That's some small-town shit. Michelle takes the lead in handling the arrangements for Mac's death, all the funerals and all that. Six months later, so this is February 2002, by August 2002, Michelle reports that Sissy has died. Of course she has. The dog.

Of course. She's a dogger, right? God damn it, you bitch. She's like, is six months long enough? Fuck it, yeah. It's an old dog. She's she has. The dog. Big shocker, right? God damn it, you bitch. She's like, it's six months long enough? Fuck it, yeah. It's an old dog. The dog clearly died of a broken heart. She couldn't live without Mac.

It died. I don't know what to tell you. So now she is given the $140,000 house at this point. Now, David, after this time, Mac dies. David begins using Mac's social security number. Really? Which is slightly shady. That's weird.

Apparently, David and Michelle had several social security numbers that they were using. Michelle temporarily has Woody move into Mac's house to fix it up so she could sell it. Sure. She's like, go do my slave labor because I'm going to make a bunch of money off this dead guy and his dog that I killed, too. I'm going to do all this shit here. off this dead guy and his dog that I killed, too. Right. I'm going to do all this shit here.

So at this point, a friend of Mac is begging, all of his friends and relatives are begging the sheriff to look into this. They're like, please investigate this guy's death. He fell 70 fucking times and never had blunt, farce trauma that killed him. And this one time that he's near her, by the way. Yeah, that she's there. The one time that he's near her and he falls, he's dead. He's dead. So that's more dead people. that she's there. The one time that he's near her and he falls, he's dead. He's dead. So that's more dead people.

July 20th, 2003, Woody is last seen alive. Oh, my God. Woody's gone now. I don't know. Now, according to David. Did he finish the deck? Well, he did finish the deck. Yes, that's the thing.

He finished all of his. He did a lot of remodel work. He had to put in a nice backsplash. That was the thing. Michelle said, I cannot sell this bucket place without a backsplash. I want blue and white, small tiles. On tile throughout. God damn it, get to work. We're going to do that. Subway tiles in the shower. Michelle said, I cannot sell this fucking place without a backsplash. I want blue and white, small tiles. Tile throughout. God damn it, get to work.

We're going to do that. Subway tiles in the shower. Don't fuck with me. And then gone. And then he disappeared. Now, David says after a while that this was on July 22nd that Michelle called David at work out of town and said that Woody killed himself. Oh, no.

Said, Woody's dead. He killed himself. So what does David do, obviously? He's going to leave the job. He says, call the police and get the medical examiner, get them to take the body. I would do this on the up and up, right? That's what he did. David says, I'll be right there to bury the body in the yard.

Jesus, what? He comes home, buries the body in the fucking yard. He buried Woody in the backyard. He buries Woody. Jesus. So now, Woody disappearing all of a sudden gets everybody. That's enough. Now people have had enough. They like Woody. all of a sudden gets everybody. That's enough. Now people have had enough.

They like Woody. Woody's a character. Woody's known. And they're like, all right, now this is bullshit. Right. What the fuck happened? Right. People start coming forward.

One person disappears. I mean, I get it. Two, maybe three and four. We're pushing it now. Let's have a chat. I'll talk about this. What the fuck's wrong with this town? Well, you know who finally comes forward to take a chat?

The daughter. Really? The 16-year-old daughter. Okay. She walks in the police. Of the no-techs? Yeah. The 16-year-old no-tech daughter walks into a police station in July of 2003.

After this, the police said she looked petrified. Yeah. This fucking police in this town suck, first of all. They're dipshits for sure. And we'll talk about who they are. Okay. And it's just, you're going to go, what? Seriously. This is why elect qualified people for shit.

People who did something outside of the town. So you're proud of them and you're impressed. Wow. That's what it is. She comes in to the station. Police say she's petrified. She says that she knows what happened to Kathy Lorena and she's ready to talk about it. So police are interested in that, obviously.

She starts spilling the beans. She tells them about the abuse of her, the abuse of the other kids, the abuse of everybody that her mother came in contact with and her father. Police don't believe her. What the hell? This is a pretty far-fetched story. And this girl, mind you, the whole time she's going to that police station is terrified of this. Terrified. She's terrified of this response. And you know's going to that police station is terrified of this. Terrified. Can you imagine?

She's terrified of this response. And you know why this is even more terrifying? Do you know why they don't believe her? Because they know Michelle. Oh, boy. They know Michelle. I'm sure you do. The one detective said that he had even, their daughters were in the same class together,

and he had just recently taken one of his daughters to the farmhouse for a birthday party. I don't care. Everything seemed fine, seemed happy. This is nuts, is what they're saying. Well, I mean, that's the way it's going to look when they're hiding something. Yeah. It's crazy. I don't care how well you think you know them.

There are serial killers everywhere that people knew and loved, and they still fucking did horrible things. Awful things. Yeah. How many people are like, it couldn't have been. Oh my God. Then they find a head somewhere. They're like, holy shit, it was.

BCK had kids and a wife. They didn't know about anything. They had no idea. Nothing. So yeah, you think those girls, Ted Bundy, Lord, do you think? They had no idea. They thought he was a great guy. Yeah, he was adorable.

What a nice guy. He was so handsome with the cast. So the other daughter ends up coming in. Yeah. Now both the daughters are giving identical statements. Now the police are like, okay, this might be true. They start gathering other facts. Yeah, he hasn't been seen since this date.

All these dates are lining up. Holy shit, these kids are telling the truth. So what they do is they go to the house, to the farmhouse on August 8, 2003, and they arrest David first. Michelle's not home. They arrest Michelle at Mac's house that she inherited. She goes without incident. She's very angry. But she's angry.

I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, she's seething. Oh, you know she's pissed off. She is furious. But she's still, she's doing it anyway. She has to act like, I don't know what's happened, and this is not me. And she has to act real fucking, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, you know, like guilty people act when they're busted for something.

Now, they search the house. They take all of, they search everything. They take all the animals in. And what they find when they take the animals is, guess what? Sissy's still alive. What? Sissy's there. What the fuck? Yay. Sissy's not dead. At the guess what? Sissy's still alive. What? Sissy's there. What the fuck?

Yay. Sissy's not dead. At the farmhouse? That's where Sissy is. Sissy's at the farmhouse. She was living there. She faked Sissy's death. Oh, my God.

She said Sissy died. Of course. She was like six months as long. Because that's how you get a house. But of all this, she killed all these people, but couldn't kill a fucking dog. She couldn't bring herself to kill Sissy. But she could kill old men, and nice people, and nephew, sissy but she could kill old men yeah nice people and nephew relatives of hers she can kill guys that are her relatives and also have fucking

developmental issues no problem but not a dog not a dog so anyway that's good to know anyway sissy's that's a that's a that's a yay moment for everybody out there they're all positive they're all happy breath of relief so they take sissy They're all happy. That's a breath of relief. So they take Sissy and they take five other dogs and a bunch of four kittens, a rabbit, a bird. They take them all out. David ends up consenting to them taking possession of the animals because there's a chain of custody thing there. They also find, when they search the investigators, they find several items belonging to the victims. When they search the investigators, they find several items belonging to the victims.

They find at Mac's home, they find several items that appear to be stained with blood, a bloody pair of slippers and quote possible decomposition evidence. So lots of bad stuff going on there. They get David in the box here. They sit David down. He seems like the type of guy you could fool with the Xerox machine. Like shit. All right.

I did it all. Lie. Damn it. I did everything. It, all right, I did it all. Lie. Damn it. I did everything. It's all me. Swear to God. At first, he claims that Kathy died choking on her own vomit, which was possible because they're poisoning her constantly. She's got bleach in her belly.

Yeah. He said he attempted CPR unsuccessfully, and she died. He didn't want to take her to the hospital though because she had injuries on her because of Michelle. So he admits to that. Eventually he says, okay, fine. She died because we tortured her for years. For fucking

years. So now what ends up happening is they killed her. David makes Shane help him bury or burn her body. Okay. They burn her body in the backyard and they spread her ashes out on a beach somewhere. Sure.

Okay. He, David concocted this story about Kathy running away with the new boyfriend. These pieces of shit sat down and quizzed their kids to make sure their kids had the correct story in case they were asked, where did Aunt Kathy go? That's right, with her scumbag trucker boyfriend on a long haul. That's terrific. You're damn right she's gone with Butch. That's right.

She's gone with him. They're going to have lot lizards all up in there. She's having threesomes with lot lizards as we speak. It's totally gross. You bet your ass. Right. So they even wrote letters to Kathy's family pretending to be Kathy. Oh, my God.

So they would believe she's still alive. That's awful. That's how fucking deep they got into this, which shows they definitely knew what they were doing. Yeah. Now, they said that two weeks after this, Michelle found out Shane was documenting the injuries. As we found out, David says that they were upset with Shane and that they were afraid that Shane would tell on it, basically. He said – now, first he says – this is his first explanation of what happened to Shane. He says that Shane was out in the pole building, which is like a shed.

He's out in the shed with a.22 caliber rifle, and David said that Shane is not allowed to handle firearms because he's a little fucking slow. He's not allowed to handle firearms. They only give him the fucking axe. That's the most dangerous thing we give him. They give him a BB gun, and one of the ones you can't even pump up. You can only do one pump, and it doesn't hurt that bad.

It's one of those. It's safe. And they go, yeah, sure, you're killing things too. Yeah, okay. So he said, David said that he had an angry physical altercation with Shane about the gun, and he tried to take the gun away from Shane when it accidentally

fired and hit Shane in the neck that's a very common very common fucking story so yeah they didn't believe him at all so he sat there for a minute and then he said okay fine they said they were scared that he would quote go into a bar and spill all of the information about Kathy Loreno

so he took him out in the shed stood three feet from him and shot him in the face wow on purpose uh straight up do it just to fucking shut him up uh so you mean there's no fishing in poontang no fishing no poontang god damn it he's not running around the mountainside just you know with one finger and a halibut and one in a hot young honey. Nothing like that. That's not happening. Instead, he's dead and buried at this point. And Dave says that he regrets killing Shane.

Of course. Never said he regrets killing anybody else. Nobody else. Just Shane. Just Shane. Now, Michelle's arrested. She claimed that David drove Woody to Olympia, Washington, where Woody caught a bus to San Diego. He said that's what happened to Woody.

Seems like 50-year-old guy behavior. Yeah, that's what he does. And so David tells the cops, yeah, that's one of the stories we rehearsed ahead of time. He said, there's also this one, this one, and this one, so she'll probably say those too, which she did. So he just laid out, these are all the stories she's going to tell you that are all bullshit. Turns out David buried Woody's body in the backyard. That's what happened to Woody.

Yeah, he said that the daughters before the arrests even told the police that Woody's clothes were still out in the pole building. They made David show police where they buried Woody and they exhumed a body from that spot that turns out to be Woody. So they end up finding the Woody. Woody. Anyway, they get a little closure. that turns out to be Woody.

So they end up finding the Woody anyway. They get a little closure. Now, what fucking morons, what complete idiots wouldn't even, wouldn't investigate this, let all these people die in this house without even noticing? Clearly this police department. Well, let's see who it is.

John Didion is the police chief here. God damn it. Who was a NFL football player. All right. He played for the New Orleans Saints. He's an offensive lineman for the New Orleans Saints in the 1970s. What an asshole. Decided after that that he wanted to take a nice easy path

in a small town police department here. So he runs for county sheriff and wins. Wow. Because people know who he is. Because he had a helmet. Yeah, because he said, I protected Archie Manning and I'll protect you too. That's what he did. Because he had a helmet. Yeah, because he said, I protected Archie Manning and I'll protect you too. That's what he did. I'll sign anything you want.

Yeah, and normally he's in charge of 14 deputies for the whole county. So it's a small force. It's just mainly some kids are drinking at the bowling alley and some guy pissed on the side of a building. Their whole police force, including the chief, is 15 people. 15 people, yeah. It's the chief and 14 deputies. That's the whole thing. Ridiculous.

Yeah, so this whole thing here, he says, Didion says, quote, it's a case where we have to rise to the occasion. We're doing our best to investigate it professionally and thoroughly, and we're doing that. Jesus. No, you're not. You're fucking this up for years. Yeah. He said he was not aware of any attempts by anybody to get the authorities to look into Mac's death. Really?

Meanwhile, they called every day. He had no idea. No clue. I had no idea. Apparently nobody said, hut, hut, hike, and he had no idea to start. He's like, oh, we're starting now? Oh, shit. Already?

Okay, we have to investigate. Fuck. We didn't even call a play. Nothing, man. So they don't end up charging anything on Mac's death because they say that they were there. They spoke to him for a moment before he died, and he didn't mention anything. So must be fine. Not that she's standing right there, and he's scared of her.

That couldn't have been. Terrified of her. Terrified and thought, maybe I'm going to live. And if I do, she's going to fuck me up worse. So stupid. They don't even look into that. The police said this asshole says, quote, if he was victimized, I doubt he would have kept it to himself.

Okay. All right. Never scared. No one's ever scared. They've got two daughters in the house and a younger one, too. And especially in a basically domestic violence situation. There's never fear involved that keeps people quiet, right? Four people are dead and none of them said a word to anybody because they're terrified.

It's unbelievable, man. None of them said a word to anybody because they're terrified. It's unbelievable, man. So they end up forming a task force with county representatives from other areas. Kings County Medical Examiner helps with special expertise of decomposed remains. Even the state attorney general's office offered help. And the police chief now appeals even for federal help. It's like, I fucked up bad. We better solve this one tomorrow.

This needs to happen now. Hit the speed in here. Yeah. So they said tips have been flooding in from local residents for years about all this, and it's finally starting to come together. Kathy's brother is pissed. He goes, tips have been flooding in? We've been giving them tips for years, and they haven't done a damn thing.

We've had closure since 95. We've all known she's dead. We're talking about 2002 now? Yeah. What the fuck? 2003. Jesus. Police have known she was dead for years and did nothing about it.

No shit. Quote, I don't understand why the police wouldn't just look in the backyard. Those other guys might be alive today if police had just done something. It's true. It's just sad. American heroes. Good job, assholes. Way to go, sir.

This guy just, well, I'm retired. I'm going to go sit. He thought he wanted to go be Andy Griffith, I think. He was like, sir. This guy just, well, I'm retired. I'm going to go sit. He thought he wanted to go be Andy Griffith, I think. He was like, I'll just go. I don't need a gun. I'll just go and whistle and go fishing with my son in the afternoon. I've seen how it works in those small towns. The drunks come in and lock themselves in.

That's how it works. It's going to be nice. It'll be fine. I'll get admiration. People will like me. They'll respect me. Now, the biggest witnesses in this case is the daughters. The daughters are

the big ones. There's a 14-year-old daughter and two adult daughters who were, they were living with the couple. Also, the third daughter, the third baby was a daughter also. Yeah, they had all daughters, all daughters. Now, they, this is, when this all happens, these, the kids are taken out and put with relatives also. So, this is kind of tough on them here. They said they had, these witnesses had, quote, firsthand knowledge of the property, residence this is kind of tough on them here. They said they had, these witnesses had, quote, firsthand knowledge of the property, residence, and lifestyle of David and Michelle Notek. I would say so. It's her kids.

David's mother attended the first court hearing about the whole thing. She said she insists that Michelle made her son commit the crimes. Bullshit. No. I'm sure she, it was her idea. Yeah. But you don't have to fucking do it. You don't have to do anything.

No. These two are 50-50 responsible. I'm sorry. Culpability both. bullshit no i'm sure she it was her idea yeah but you don't have to fucking do it so no this is a these two are 50 50 responsible i'm sorry culpability both that's it man they said that uh he was a beaten down man with a worried expression on his face in court uh he agreed to relinquish the court the animals is what i was talking about earlier they continued to search through the house for for everything they were just taking up all the yard they had buckets of dirt all through the house for everything. They were just taking up all the yard. They had buckets of dirt all through the yard, all through everything. They basically had just buckets of dirt lined up forever. They were sifting, looking for remains of any kind, a tooth, a bone fragment, something at all.

David says that he burned Kathy's – Kathy and Shane were burned, and they spread their ashes along a beach. Asshole. That's what he claims. And they can never find the bodies, and he tells them where the other ones are. So it's probably true. August 11th when they appear in court, they're shackled. David is just sad.

He doesn't say much. He's very in a fog. Michelle is pissed. Yeah. She's angry. She's upset. She's shackled. She shakes her head.

She exhales loudly. As the judge says that he believes witnesses would fear for their safety as she was released, she loudly shifted and went through her nose, like pissed. Like, hey, honey, if you're trying to, and I don't mean that in a sexist way, just listen, fucker. If you're trying to tell a judge you're not dangerous, meanwhile, you're literally making physical things that are frightening the judge. He's not going to give you bail at that point.

You're trying to intimidate people. Through breathing. Well, shackled. You're like, I will still intimidate them. That's crazy. Unbelievable. Now, August 13th, David pleads not innocent to first-degree murder, rendering criminal assistance an unlawful disposal of human remains.

Michelle is charged with two counts of first-degree murder. They are jailed on $4 million bail. Whoa. $4 million bail each. So that's a good one here. Not too bad. They want to sever the cases. So obviously all the evidence can't be pooled.

And the court denies their motion to sever. Really? Because they say the state may end up using David as a witness against her, and they want to keep them together. So yeah, witnesses, including the daughters and others, say that No-Tech abused Kathy, they abused Woody, the whole deal. They charge her with the killing of Shane because he found out, all of this sort of thing.

Now, they reschedule David's arraignment for a little bit later. He waives his right to a speedy arraignment and declined to enter a plea on the first-degree murder. They let him have a delay. The prosecutor claims there's no plea agreement in place, but we're delaying it until after we deal with her. Sure. Just in case we decide to come up with a plea agreement. But there's no plea agreement. There's but we're delaying it until after we deal with her. Sure. Just in case we decide to come up with a plea agreement. But there's no plea agreement. There's nothing right now.

We swear it's good. They say that David might just, they say he just wants to come clean and get it off his chest. This is just purely. It's weird. It's really. He's just a good guy. He's just a good guy, man.

They could also face additional charges as they're not sure how many victims there are who the fuck knows this is just what they know about right uh 14th of august 2003 uh bail is raised from four million to five million each like they were going to get four million so they were like let's do this but they said that they're strong flight risks obviously because they're up on murder charges michelle again pleads innocent to two counts of first-degree murder. They also tack on in the files and the charges that she showed, quote, extreme indifference to human life, which is an aggravating factor, which is not terrific here. Pacific prosecutors here, they want from her blood, hair, fingernail samples from both

of them to determine whether they poisoned two people who died at their home. They want all of this. Meanwhile, the defense attorney wants the judge replaced. Really? He's saying the judge is prejudiced. They said that he was a lawyer for Michelle in a 1998 guardianship case involving Shane Watson. What does that have anything to do with it? Nothing at all.

Nothing at all. It wasn't like she taught to tell him about a big criminal enterprise that she had. They literally talked about, I think Shane would do well in my home. Okay, they went to court. That's it. They deny that. They say, eat dicks. Sorry about that.

Prosecutors say, quote, the facts of this investigation so far indicate that some or all of the victims in this case were chronically abused. And furthermore, investigators have reasonable cause to suspect that the victims herein may have been administered some kind of poisonous compounds or medications that caused the victims to be in a seriously compromised, weakened state of health, which is true here. They noticed David also said that they also said that David was having health problems before his arrest. His employer noted that he had his performance had drastically deteriorated during the six months before he's arrested. So I don't know if she's poisoning him or what the fuck's going on or if this is just getting to him.

I mean, if there's one person that knows everything you've done. Yeah, no, it's true. Who knows here? one person that knows everything you've done. Yeah, no, it's true. Who knows here? Now, August 22nd, 2003, the prosecutor officially downgrades charges to second-degree murder or first-degree manslaughter.

In exchange for that, Michelle agrees to give hair, blood, and fingernail and handwriting samples to the prosecution. Because at first she said you can have the hair and nail and blood, but I'm not giving you handwriting samples. Because you can tell she's the one that wrote the letters.

David did everything else. I'll give you that shit, but I'm not writing a goddamn word for you at that point. So this is all in exchange for that. So they obtain a warrant to analyze the clothing she was wearing when she was booked into jail and all that sort of thing here. Michelle's attorneys are pissed off because they're saying we haven't had access to the home to make our case, to look at evidence. The doors were locked.

He had to peek through the windows and dodge FBI agents using radar equipment to search the soil because they're looking for, you know. Anything. Anything. He says, quote, there were items strewn about the house. Obviously, it was in disarray. We were unable to do anything because we have no evidence list from the state. We don't know what was taken out. The FBI showed up and started doing things behind the house that we weren't privy to. So he said there was no evidence log.

The whole thing was a fucking mess, is what their lawyer's saying. But guess what? He admitted to killing people. Now, the town people are freaked out by this whole shit. The pretty little farm house, they didn't expect this. A guy named Bob Lund, who works at the gas station, said, quote, stuff like this doesn't happen around here. Not much goes on here. Not much at all. So he said nothing, including this, happens here. This especially.

Another guy. In the town that does things. Yeah, we do things, damn it. Another guy praised the sheriff's efforts. Really? He said, quote, I think the sheriff is handling this real good. Go Saints. There you go.

Go Saints. He's a 72 year old man wow oh my god here uh now diana watson who's a relative of shane's was saying that the family thought it would be better for him to be in a family environment yeah may feel super bad about the whole thing uh but diana watson uh her stepmother says that uh although she loves her stepdaughter, Michelle, she does think that both the no-techs should get the death penalty. She wishes it. She said, quote, in my opinion, they both bought a one-way ticket to hell.

I like it. So not too shabby here. Go Saints. Yeah, go Saints. Woo-hoo. Larry Williams, a guy who knew David as a kid, he said that David's a Vietnam veteran and wouldn't be mixed up with something like this. Apparently, if you're in a war, you won't kill anyone else, apparently.

You're done killing forever. He said that, I've known David Notek for years. This is great. This is the former mayor, Leon Lett. Oh, boy. I've known David Notek. It's not Leon Lett. Not Leon Lett, the cowboy.

Every official in this town is an ex-NFL player. Every single one. It's all NFL players. That would be amazing. Jack Lambert's the head of sanitation. It's all 70s players. This guy says, quote, I've known David Notek forever. He applied for a garbage truck driving job with the city of Raymond when I was mayor.

But Jim Brown wouldn't hire him. No, no. Jim Brown said no. We're sorry. We apologize mayor. But Jim Brown wouldn't hire him. No, no. Jim Brown said no. We're sorry. We apologize. But Terry Bradshaw wouldn't bring him on board. Couldn't do it. Had a HR, Roger Staubach said no.

He said no. What do you want? We can't do anything about it. Fucking not a thing. This town is fucking ridiculous. It is ridiculous. He says that David blended right in. In fact, I'm surprised they're still around in the area.

I haven't seen him in years. He was the last guy I would think of for something like this. Kind of a regular Joe. And he kills people also here. Regular Joe Theismann. Regular Joe Theismann. Who, by the way, is running the Department of Education, in case you were wondering. If you need to enroll your kids in school, you go sit in front of him, and he does that.

He'll take care of you good. Fucking incredible. This is so fun. So fucking crazy, man. Jesus Christ. On a fence post near the house, somebody leaves a yellow flower with a note in loving memory of Shane from your friends and family. Love John Madden. Love John Madden. Love, John Madden.

Love, Boomer Esiason. This is so much fun. Heart, Tony Dorsett. Okay, perfect. We'll miss you, Fred Belitnikoff. That's so beautiful. That's great. That's so beautiful.

That's great. And if you die, County Coroner Jim Plunkett will take care of you. It's perfect. These are all 70s football players. In case you don't know who we're talking about, we're making lots of 70s. Let's watch NFL films. It's so good. So June 18th, 2004, Michelle Notek appears in Pacific County Superior Court and pleads guilty to second degree murder and first degree manslaughter. It is an Alford plea.

Really? Which as we know or may not know if you're out there, an Alford plea is when you say, I know you have enough evidence to convict me, so I'm pleading guilty, but I'm not saying I did shit. You don't have to allocute. You don't have to say what you did. Some prosecutors will allow it and some won't allow it. Think West Memphis story. Exactly. They did it at the end. But that was at the end when it was like, you know you don't have shit, but I know I

don't have any evidence to get out of it. Right. So we're both going to fucking pretend like this was on the up and up. That's maybe the worst Alfred plea ever. That's the worst one. That pissed me off. It's just like a Hail Mary. I wanted those kids to be like, fuck no, I'm not saying I did that.

No, I'll go to court again. I'll go to court every day. Yeah, you get me a new trial and prove the fuck that I did that again. They're wasting away in there. When it's not 1993. It's brutal. Yeah, I get why they did it. You just get out.

Yeah. So she gets out of it. She does the Alford plea. Yeah. And then now they had to ensure that she knew what she was doing. Yeah. They said that she completed 14 years of school. She could read and write, quote, very well.

She discussed things over with her attorneys for a few hours. She knew the sentencing range for manslaughter was between 78 and 102 months with a maximum term of life. She knew everything. They literally go over every point. You know this? Have you been briefed of this? You have to know because this is a complicated point. So they have to make sure this person who didn't go to law school might understand this plea.

Right. So August 19th, 2004 is sentencing here. There is a Supreme Court decision right before the sentencing that limits the sentencing range and makes it lower for this sort of thing. So this decision will affect her sentence probably in an advantageous way for her. This is how lucky this fucking lady is. Yeah. The judge, right before he gives her her sentence, reminds her that if it wasn't for the Supreme Court decision, that he would have imposed a sentence above the standard range.

Wow. He said, if I was allowed to, I would. He said, quote, I also know finally that Michelle should be very thankful to the U.S. Supreme Court and the 5-4 decision in Blakely v. Washington because this would not be the same sentence that I would hand down but for that decision. You are lucky.

You, ma'am, may fuck off. Sentences her to the top end of the standard range on each conviction. It is 164 months on count one, 102 months on count two to run consecutively for 266 months what is that so that's a shitload of time that's 24 ish she didn't raise any questions at the time nothing about the the alfred plea nothing

everything was fine here she didn't think it was going this way she thought no she thought fuck now august 26 2004 he pleads david pleads separately, guilty to murder in the second degree, unlawful disposal of human remains, and rendering criminal assistance in the first degree. He's sentenced to 179 months in prison. So he gets a pretty- It's a little lighter, but it's still steep. It's still a good-

Yeah, it's a good one now. Still a bit of time. Now, April 2005, Michelle moves to withdraw her Alford plea. Really? She now says that she hadn't been correctly informed. She didn't understand what she was doing. Now she's pleading, babe in the woods, I don't know anything. My lawyer talked me into it.

She appeals here for, she said that the maximum sentence was wrong. She said, the problem is, too, with this. She pleaded to a higher sentence. So she expected a higher sentence. They gave her a lower sentence. And now she's appealing based on that. That's not good. Yeah, she's treating it just like it happened the opposite way, because legally it's sort of the same thing.

Right. Which is amazing. The judge should just hit her on the head with the gavel and go, you got less, fuckhead. You know how much fucking time I wanted to give you, you asshole? Jesus Christ. So there's that. She also, she's arguing community. When she is finally released, the terms of her release for five years, she'll be in a

halfway house for three years. She's arguing that in the appeal. What the fuck? Saying she wasn't aware of that. It's ridiculous. She's pleading that her Alford plea was involuntary. She was misinformed. So she also says that her lawyer sucked in effective assistance of counsel.

She's also saying that the facts don't line up to what she pleaded guilty with, which they 100 percent do. The whole deal. They're the trial counsel's broad performance. And in addition to ineffective assistance on the actual advising her, then he didn't know what he was doing in court either. Judicial misconduct. Yep. Said that the trial court engaged in judicial misconduct for failing to call a recess or inquire whether she needed to speak with an attorney when she appeared, quote, upset or under duress. No. So ignoring that and letting her enter an Alford plea does not equal to her to actually

admitting guilt because she was all upset and she was all verklempt. She was under duress. And they let her do this. Yeah. She says she also received unsatisfactory treatment in jail. They wouldn't give her mental health in there. She said that they intentionally lost an exculpatory letter that would have gotten her completely out of trouble. But she doesn't tell you what was in the letter.

She said the police had it and they lost it. And that was the key to my innocence. The decision is everything's affirmed. You can eat dicks, lady. Get back to doing time. She is told officially by the state of Washington to eat dicks. It's a big stamp with just a dick on it. Boom.

Shout out. Eat dicks, lady. So Michelle. Preferably head first. There you go. That's probably for the best. I love it. So Michelle is at the Washington Correction Center for Women at this point.

Yeah. Ninety six. Oh, one. Butch, it's just road and northwest and Gig Harbor, Washington. If you want to write her and say hello. Sounds. Yeah, it does. David is in the Monroe Correction Center in Washington there.

And we don't know where anybody's buried because two of the people are scattered. Right. And they found the other bones and's buried because two of the people were scattered and they found the other bones and they ended up cremating Woody and Mac. I'm not sure what happened to Mac. They didn't say. I think his family, his family took over at least and got the body or did something, even though she arranged a funeral. And that is Raymond Washington.

And that is a crazy ass farmhouse full of disaster. What a fucking mess that was. Terrible. What a mess. What a disaster. If was. Terrible. What a mess. What a disaster. If you like that story, wow, it's a fun story. Because then if you like that story, you know what? You're normal.

You should like that story. It's a crazy story. You're our kind of people. Go ahead and give us five stars on iTunes. That helps us out more than you can fucking imagine. Yeah, that's true. It really, really does. iTunes is big for us.

Please do that. Five stars. Funky algorithm. Not our fault. You want to be a superstar, you can go on patreon.com slash crimeandsports. And holy shit, do people do it. Wow. Thank you so much for that.

And you can make a donation or a one-time donation over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. We have a list of people over here that could just knock a horse out. It's true. So definitely you're going to want to stick around for that. And I just want to bitch about a couple of things first and foremost. And I'm not going to bitch about luggage because that happens to anybody. But seriously, go fuck yourself, American Airlines, on the other hand.

Seriously. Honestly. Dude. Okay. Let me tell you what happened to us. Detroit. We fly into Detroit. Okay.

No goddamn sleep. No. At all. Working all goddamn night. That's fine. We work. We fly into Detroit. Okay. No goddamn sleep. No. At all. Working all goddamn night. That's fine. We work. We work all day. Me and Dan and we all put together the show.

We do the standup show. We do a time suck show. It's phenomenal. We get done at one o'clock in the morning. We meet everybody. We go to a diner. We eat some shit food real quick. And we go to the Detroit airport at 2.30 in the goddamn morning.

So you can imagine what is the worst place you want to be randomly, Detroit airport, 2.30 in the morning. That's true. Worst place in time. Not the best thing ever. We are the first bag checked. Number one. Number one. Number one.

By a person. Yeah. Taking it. Because it's the first thing. At 3 o'clock in the morning, it opens. And he fucks it up. James puts a tag on the handle and it says to Philly. And the man

looks at James' ticket and sees that tag and goes, rookie mistake, wrong area. You can't put it there. And then sends it to the wrong fucking city. And then prints out something to Phoenix. That's your rookie mistake, sir. That's a mistake. So I got to get to Boston at 9.30 in the morning.

You know when I got my luggage? 11 fucking 30 at night. Right. I had to work on the three shows we had the next day, so I got to sit in my fucking hotel room and wait for a bag when I could have been working all day. Oh, couldn't sleep then either because the bag could show up at any time. If it does, I need it and I got to get working. So I sit there all day and night. I stay up all fucking night.

That's why I was posting pictures of snow at 5 o'clock in the morning because I was still goddamn awake. So I was waiting for my fucking underwear to come because I hadn't changed my socks in two goddamn fucking days. So that was annoying. But Boston was fun. Boston was a lot of fun. What's less fun is when you're doing these shows. Okay. Now, first of all, there's some annoying people out there.

There is. We love all you guys that tweeted us. And anybody who has the passion to tweet at us about anything, even if you're complaining, it's pretty cool. We're happy that you would take the time to put our ad in there and come at us. On the other hand, if you make a suggestion and I say, hey, not just no. Thanks for the input. No, thanks.

Don't fucking argue with me about it. Back off. Back off. Because guess what? You're making me want to do it that way even more, number one. Number two, you make something. I don't know. Where's your fucking unbelievable podcast, sir?

You build something for two goddamn years and break your ass and break your balls and have no fucking money or health insurance or anything else for two fucking years. You do that. And then somebody tell you, hey, by the way, I think you should move some things around in there. You can really shuffle. You can really shuffle. You can really shuffle that someplace else. How about this?

How about go? Shut up. You like the hour and a half of murder that you get? Well, there you go. That's the part. Deal with that. Don't bother about the rest of it if you don't want to. Who cares about the first five minutes?

That's our time. The rest of it, we are 100% dedicated to you guys. So that's annoying. And it's funny because when you do this sort of thing, you expect people like – there's always people that are annoying. But you expect to have a team on your side. And the people that are involved with you. That's on your side and they know the ins and outs and they love you and they give a shit and they treat you like you matter. Right.

Right? That's what happens. And we have a team. We have myself. We have Jimmy. Right. Right? That's what happens. And we have a team. We have myself, we have Jimmy, we have Sarah, my wife, who also manages us, because we also have our agent Max Alexander up there in Canada who sets up our tours for us

and does a whole lot of shit for us. And he's fucking meaner than me, so if you mess with us, I yell at you first and then he's going to yell at you afterwards. He's got neck tattoos. Watch out, motherfucker. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, an aggressive Canadian you don't want to mess with. That's a rare breed and they'll come after you. There's only like seven of them.

Yeah. And there's another, there's also other aspects of people who should know the show and have our backs, but fucking don't. Right. And it's insane. And you might notice this week, as you notice, you look at your Small Town Murder logo here. If you're listening on Small Town Murder, you're listening to Crime and Sports and hearing this rant, you should be listening to Small Town Murder also. You might notice the little Podcast One logo on it now.

That's because we switched networks with Small Town Murder over to Podcast One on Thursday. You know why you didn't notice that? Because fucking nobody did because they didn't fucking do anything. That's why you didn't notice that. Because they didn't tell anybody. Did you see anything about that? No. Did you hear anything about it anywhere?

I heard something. I heard that we do a show every Wednesday. Yes, they tweeted that we do a show every Wednesday. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys. Yeah. Just for frustration. I don't care if they're listening right now because you know what?

You should be fucking embarrassed about this. You fucked up. You did. You should fuck up anymore. Maybe be more prepared for fucking phone calls with us if you don't want to hear bullshit. Sorry. We get on the goddamn phone the day before the show's going to premiere on their network when they're supposed to be doing a big six

week rollout and we get asked, so is it is this like a true show or is it fiction? You could hear my fucking head explode. Jimmy, you were on another extension. Could you hear my head explode over the phone? How could you not know that i said what the fuck are we talking about what's happening why are we on the phone with you losing my goddamn mind

and so the it's just amazing that you have to give people fucking money who know nothing about what the fuck you're doing and guess what don't care no you know why because we're not celebrities that's why because i'm jimmy wisman you're James Pedrigal. No one gives a shit about us. It doesn't matter how popular the show is or our listeners. You guys care. But if we're not celebrities, certain people don't fucking care about us. So that's where we're at. That's why we're frustrated because we get super pissed off and we work and work and work

and then give people half of our fucking money and they don't even know who we are. We fly over this country trying to get to the people that make this show work and then we get back home to be asked, so what's your show like? What do you fucking mean what's it about? By the people who should know more than anybody because guess what? They have to sell the show to people. And they're not the only fucking network out there and everybody else seems to know who we are within that range, but they don't because we're fucking nobody.

So that's that. That's podcasting. So have fun. Make a podcast. Have it be nobody. So that's that. That's podcasting. So have fun. Make a podcast. Have it be successful. And that's the other thing, too. I heard somebody, when they were bitching about the placement of something in the show, they were like, well, if celebrities want to do it, I'm not a fucking celebrity. I'm not either. I have never gotten

recognized. I've never gotten a free fucking meal. I don't have health insurance. There is zero advantage in the celebrity wing. I wake up and go to a fucking day job. That's what I'm saying. If I don't have health insurance. There is zero advantage in this celebrity wing. I wouldn't go to a fucking day job. That's what I'm saying. If I don't have health insurance, I don't have to take shit like celebrities. If I have a fucking house overlooking the beach, then you can give me shit and I'll go, I don't care.

My life's great. Guess what? My life ain't that fucking great yet to take shit from you. So suck my dick. How's that? That's the truth. Enjoy. There you go.

That's the show. So suck my dick. How's that? That's the truth. Enjoy. There you go. That's the show. Thank you, guys. Jimmy, hit us with those shout outs of good people who don't piss us off. First of all, this week in Boston was fucking incredible and I can't thank you guys enough. Adam Sheehy came through with so many favors and so many incredible things for us. Thank you.

He really made just those shows fucking phenomenal. He took pictures. He helped us out with other things. He went to the store. He did. It was like the guy was the best, man. He just did everything we needed him to do and more. A great person.

Thank you, Adam, so much. Thanks for hanging with us, brother. And his wife, too. It was really cool. Thank you. A friend. Friend. That's his wife.

She told me, no, not girlfriend, not wife, friend. That's my friend. This lady brought, they were very nice people. They came together. Yeah. They were opposite sex of each other, but they may just be platonic.

Hey, that's cool. And Adam's got a cool car. He does. She should fuck him because he's got a great car. Nice. And a cool job. And a cool job. Whatever.

I'm not going to give too many insights into that guy's life. We have a lot of shout outs. He's fantastic. He's great. Thank you, Adam, for everything. Christiane Castaldi, Maria Montague, Chandra Banton. She's in Texas. She's fucking.

These three. Maria Montague has been listening for a long time, and then she just got her tax return and just chipped us off this ridiculous. It was so sweet. Thank you. Thank you, three, for being the executive producers this week, as well as Sarah Gilbo.

You guys do so much for us that we just can't do without you guys. So thank you very, very, very, very much. Thank you so much. Lisa Williams, Michelle Jolly in Australia.

Thank you, Michelle. Janet Holmes, she donated twice this week. It may have been once a week, and I just haven't done this in two weeks. So thank you, Janet. Yeah, we've been sorry about that. It's been a brutal couple weeks.

We couldn't do it live. Right, exactly. If we did, you wouldn't have heard it anyway. Right. Thanks, Kyle. If you were at that show, you'd know what that means. Fucking Kyle. God damn it, Kyle.

Janet Holmes, that was it. Jessica Rothwell, Abby Kulhanek, Robert Wibble, W-I-B-L-E. Wibble? Weibel? Shit. I went with Weibel. I don't know. It might be Weibel.

Weibel? I could see that. It's better than Weibel. Robert Weibel. Yeah. Garrett Eder, Cynthia Mackey, Chastity Altman, Jesse Hartman, Aaron Brown, Misty Keene, Kasten Johnson, or Kasten Johnson. God damn it. I never remember. I think it's Kasten. Yeah,y Keene, Kasten Johnson, or Kasten Johnson?

God damn it. I never remember. I think it's Kasten. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kasten Johnson, Chelsea Hanson, Amanda Parker, Sarah Gilbo, of course. She donated three fucking times this week. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah.

Elizabeth Britton, Ashley Curry. Thank you very, very much. Elizabeth Britton, Ashley Curry. Thank you so much. Michelle Coyne, The Color Chick. Thank you very much. Thank you. I don't know what The Color Chick is. I imagine she does hair somewhere. Google The Color Chick and take care of her.

Susan Manning, Jacqueline Howard, Dana Grayson, of course. He came through. It was great to fucking meet you. Yeah, man. Great to meet you in Boston. Thank you so much. We got to meet a few of the Linda Cross that we got to meet. Bunch of our friends that we The Egan sisters. She's terrific. And Hannah Camerson. Thank you for driving so far to Detroit.

From fucking Oklahoma. Thank you for coming to see us again. Tasha Camerson, thank you for driving so far to Detroit. She drove from fucking Oklahoma. Thank you for coming to see us again. Unbelievable. Thank you. Tasha McCoy, Seth Anderson, Tammy Curtis, Julie Skinner, thank you very much. Megan Rickson, Emily Irvin, Julian Basarge. Julian? Jillian Basarge.

God damn it. There you go. Caitlin Kennedy, Tyler Scott, William Melanson. I think that's the guy in Boston. Yeah, yeah. He's very confront William Melanson. I think that's the guy in Boston. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very confrontational on Facebook when you shit on his Patriots. Yeah, yeah. What are you going to do?

What are you going to do? Maybe win the Super Bowl next year. Yeah, yeah. Ewa Tarowska, Brent Anktil. A-N-C-T-I-L. Anktil? Anktil. I'll bet it's Anktil.

A-N-C-T-I-L. Anktil? Anktil. I'll bet it's Anktil. A-N-C-T-I-L. Anktil? Anktil. I think it's Anktil. Yeah. I don't know. Katrina. Sorry, Brent.

Katrina Anhofer or Anhofer. Michael Worman. Yeah, Michael Worman. Tiffany Robertson came to the Detroit show. She was the one that bought the tickets. It was a mix-up between shows. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we accommodated her

and made sure she got in to see both shows. Definitely. Thanks for coming. Then she donated money so we could buy drinks in Boston. That was so cool. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Tiffany. It was great to meet you. Kate Watson, Lori Murphy, Kathleen Thill continues to support and sent me so many birthday gifts. That's so cool, yeah.

Thank you, Kathleen, for everything. We'll see you March 25th at Stand Up Live. Definitely. And thank you, Heather Jean, too, for Detroit. She gave us cookies. She brought us cookies.

She brought hugs, a book, and then she sent fucking hats. And T-shirts. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. To Detroit. We really appreciate that. Thank you. Autumn Allen.

I think I said that. No, I didn't. Autumn Allen times two. She donated twice this week. Yeah, get her. Twice. Peter Blyme or Bleem. Shannon Feltus. That's weird. Feltus? I don't know. twice this week. Get her twice. Peter Blyme or Bleeam. Shannon Feltus.

That's weird. Feltus? Feltus. That's brutal. It's legitimately spelled Feltus. If you were in her seventh grade class, you'd never live that down. I would have ruined that poor girl. I'm so sorry, Shannon.

I would have been a dick to you. Grace Soto. Downward Dog Pet Services. Some hippie pet services. Yoga pet services. Do they make your dog do yoga? Is that what it is? My dog wouldn't do yoga.

No, my dog would shit on your leg. Monge in the UK, he donated again. Thanks, Monge. He's terrific. Amy Keys, Mariah Montague, of course, she donated on Patreon, and she donated over on PayPal, so thank you, Mariah. Maria, Jesus. Kimberly Watson, Ashley Boxler, she donated twice.

Crocheted My Little Heart Out. I don't know what that is, but Google it and take care of them. Lori Carter. James Cook constantly donates. I think he's in England. Thank you so much. I think that's where he is. Thank you, James.

I appreciate the hell out of that. David Bunnell. Gene Mena. James Aselta. Stephen Mack. No, Mace. Damn it. I'm sorry, Stephen.

You've donated before. I've seen your name before, and I just ruined it. I've never called you Mack no, Mace. Damn it, I'm sorry, Stephen. You've donated before. I've seen your name before and I just ruined it. I've never called you Mack. Stephen Mace. Tracy Totcher. Totcher. Shit. Totcher and Feltus.

Totcher and Feltus. That's a good legal phrase. It's like some kids. Totcher, Feltus, and feel up. That's hilarious. Marika Sand, Patricia Scharr. Patricia Scharr. Patricia. Nobody's ever said that before, ever. up yeah we're gonna have a that's hilarious marika sand uh patricia char uh patricia char patricia nobody's ever said that before ever patricia char sorry uh amy keller she's donated before thank you amy uh paul roust or roost roost roost it's paul roost he's the one that makes all

those all those memes on facebook he's fucking amazing at it. Appreciate that. Kyle Airy, Lindsay Sikora, Elizabeth Tebow, Ryan Greave, Tara Jenkins, Deborah Burrell. Thank you so much, Deborah. That was a nice one. Definitely. Thank you. Timothy Jenkins, Toby Arnott, Jake Labier. Labier. No.

The law firm of Labier felt us. Come on. Jesus Christ. It's too much. Is that for real? I think it is. Jake Labier. Come on. Jesus Christ. It's too much. Is that for real? I think it is. Jake Labier. It may be Labier. It's probably Labier. It's probably Labier.

Let's go. It could be Labier. I think he's trying to make it sound like Labia as much as he can. Chander Banton. Thank you. Shandell Healy. Sam Sullivan. Dolce Thompson.

Raquel McDonald. Lisa Pashuris. Pashuros, Pashuros, I don't know, Kathy Schmedecki, fucker, Katie Schmedecki, damn it, Joshua Cobb, Mitchell Bowler, Derek Hillenburg, Don O'Connor, Michelle Reinholdt, I want that to be related to Judge so bad, Pierce DeCorey. Tanya R. Pinion. Tanya R. Pinion. Yes. Pinion.

Fuck. Travis Saunders. Brad Welch. Amanda Berry. Oh, is that the chick that was kidnapped in Ohio? Wasn't that Amanda Berry? I'm not sure. I don't know for sure.

Hopefully she's a fan of the show. It appears so. Good deal. Daniel Ebersole. Eric Rau. Manda Johnson. Katie Turow. Unity Bowling. Marissa. Christine. Iole, Eric Rau, Manda Johnson, Katie Turow, Unity Bowling, Marissa, Christine, I don't know,

Marissa didn't have a last name, Christine Peterson, Michael Bate, Mike Bate, Kyle Marler, yeah, Kyle Marler, Amy Heilers, Cody Spence, Orla Buckley, Laura Verner, Matthew Morris, Christine Gentine, Gentine, shit.

That's a tough one. G-E-N-T-I-N, that's T-I-N-E. That's Gentine. Gentine. Shit. That's a tough one. G-E-N-T-I-N. That's T-I-N-E. That's Gentine, right? Probably Gentine. Right. Megan Walker, Brooke Fabian, who exchanged shirts with me in Boston, by the way. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Which is a hilarious story that I'm not going to tell right now. But thank you, Brooke. I really appreciate it. That's cool. And especially the story. That's fucking hysterical. Dusty Paddock, Brandon Miller, Sarah McCullough, Shanna Walter, Dan Rogers, Leslie Kidd, Tim Sprague, Lily Frank, Bobby Vint, Tyler Cameron, Lee Brown, Eric Strebing.

Strebing. Eric Strebing. Sound drunk saying that one. Yeah. Eric Strebing. Seth Anderson. Gygax fan? I don't know what that is. What's a Gygax? Is that a band or something? Beats the shit out of me, Gygaxfan. I don't know what that is.

What's a Gygax? Is that a band or something? Beats the shit out of me. Gygaxfan or Gygax. I don't know. Chris Coles, Kerry Clark, Vince Nistico, Tim Ameren, Alicia with no last name, Adam Jones, Scott Sewell, Why Is Mom Weird? I don't know what that is, but Google that shit.

That's cool. Potster Podcast. Thank you, guys. Alicia Sebastian Rhodes. Kelsey Hebert. She sent me a nice gift today, too. Thank you, Kelsey. Kelsey Brinkerhoff.

Tina Patterson. No, Tina Peterson. Jacob Mayhew. Athena Hippias. Cammie Rock. Dakota Clever. Susan DeGua... Ah, Jesus.

I was cruising. DeGuaia? Almost, Jimmy. Susan DeGuaia. I don't know. I thought we were getting through the rest of that list. Ah, Jesus. I was cruising. Deguia. Almost, Jimmy. Susan Deguia. I don't know. I thought we were getting through the rest of that list. Alicia Ferris. Sarah Webb.

Kathy Witcher. Yeah, that's Witcher for sure. Amanda McAllister. Saisha Sandoz. And Andrea LeCount. Wow, that could have tripped me up. Yeah, I could have been bad. I could have been a real asshole.

Kim Kinney. I could have been doing some editing on that. Brittany with no last name. Kelsey. No, no. Yeah, Kelsey Murphy. Katie L. I don't know if L is the last name.

Melanie Wilmington. Joe Brown. Shelly Warners. Carrie Winters. Maria Montague, again. Laura Kopp. She's over on Snapchat. She's fantastic.

Thank you so much, Laura. Travis Tim. Teresa Steernagel. Steernagel. That's fantastic. Thank you so much, Laura. Travis Tim, Teresa Steernagel. Steernagel. That's pretty. That's simple. Close enough. Sean Wickham, Kevin Lee Maness.

Yes. Chris Garver, Buck with no last name. Jordana McGuire, Ryan Glasheen, Cameron Santo, Michael Tele-fucking-what? No. Michael Tele-fucking-what? Michael Trekarica. Thatwhat? Michael Trekarica. That's it. Trekarica.

He sent snail mail to us. Oh, yeah. Thank you. With cash in it. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, from Brooklyn. Thank you, man. Zachary Brinkerhoff-Sesenia.

What? You don't need this hyphen. Just pick a name. No, just Brinkerhoff, right? Yeah, that's enough. Because I can do that one. That's plenty. That one's fucked up.

Or the other one, but not both. Sesenia is brutal. It fucks you over with the Brinkerhoff. How do you get Brinkerhoff and then hyphen Cecenia? Stop that. Somebody liked it ethnic. Right. I can appreciate that.

Jenny Holcomb, Lindsay Hardy, Hunter Kretzinger, Melissa Milan, Landon Griffin, Elizabeth Kelly, Clarice Edgerton, and Amy LeBlanc, Nicholas Jacob, Melanie, Melanie Stewart Bouchard. That's it. No, it's not Bouchard. That is Bouchard. Jesus. Kat, with no last name. I think that's Kat in New York.

Kat, yeah. Lisa Schneer, Kev the Quantum Kevins, Monica Coy, Alina Farika, Alina Farika, Liam Dealey, Alina Farika, Liam Dealey, Shauna Brazelton, Alana Bush, Shalana Surrett. Fucking, how did I get all those together? Man. That's a lot of essence. That's a good one. Melissa Reischick, Angie King, Suckafree Podcast, Danny Chestnut, Stacey Deriso. She sent me an apron.

She's terrific. Thank you, Stacey. Susan Olgis is over in, I think, Ohio. I think that's where it is. Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, it's the fucking Midwest somewhere. Yeah, goddammit.

She's a paramedic. She's terrific. She's awesome, though. Thank you, Susan. Ward Palmer, Robert Williams, Angela Bruno. Yes. Cassa De Salinas, Susan Summerall, GG Creations, Frankie Westhoff, Michael Militz, Bettany Moran, Amber Mackey, Trent Becker, Cassie Craven, Heather Smith, Daniel Van Slaun, Nathan Nolte,

and Mama Al Davis. Thank you all. Thank you. So fucking much for making that last week, these last two weeks, stellar, incredible. I can't tell you guys how fun it is to meet you. Honestly. Especially after you guys support us like you do. That was the best part of it.

Because fucking nobody else does. That was the best part of it. Yeah, thank you guys. Honestly, when people who literally make half the fucking money that comes into us don't give a shit enough to even know what our show is the fuck about because we're not famous. It's really nice when you people come up to us like you're excited to see us. Hyperventilating. Telling us you love us. Telling us you like us

and that you enjoy us and that you, I don't know, know whether the show is fiction or not. Shit like that. It makes us feel great. So if you want to follow a guy like Jimmy, how might you do that, Jimmy? Find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Find me, follow along, play along. Let me know

how your life's going. I really appreciate being involved with you guys, so thank you. And I'm at JimmyP is funny. You can hit me up. Please don't hit me up with ideas. Hit me up with ideas for like, hey, I have a murder, or hey, I have this. Don't say, hey, I think you should structure your show differently, because guess what?

Fuck you. I've been doing this a long time, and I don't sleep for this. So unless you do that, hey, I think you should structure your show differently. Because guess what? Fuck you. I've been doing this a long time. And I don't sleep for this. So unless you do that, too, you really have no ownership in this. And I don't care what you think. Even though I appreciate you listening and taking the time to tweet. But don't bother. I'm just not into it. So do that.

At Jimmy P is funny. Copy and paste my last name from the show description. Do all of that, guys. And we're going to keep coming back and back and back. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Holiday tips and fun facts from Kristen and Paul at Total Wine & More. We'll be right back. As you check off that gift list, we'd love to share our always low prices and ridiculous selection at Total Wine & More.

Eight Bay Area locations, now open in Daly City across from Ceramonte Center on Gellert Boulevard near Bed Bath & Beyond. Shop online at TotalWine.com. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.