Small Town Murder - #590 - Murdering As A Family - Jonesboro, Arkansas

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

This week, in Jonesboro, Arkansas, when someone is brutally murdered, in their own kitchen, a huge mystery unfolds. It seems like there are plenty of people who wanted this person dead, including the man's own father. But when a tip is called in to detectives, the terrible plot becomes clear. It turns out to the a cold, calculated plot that involves a conspiracy, with 4 people in on the murder plans!!Along the way, we find out that the potential for tornados in this town are way scarier than any murder, that when you're kicking people out of their homes, some of them may have murder to kill you, and that no matter how many people want to kill you, you need to be the most careful about those closest to you!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo choo. Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissmann. Thank you folks so much for joining us today all aboard the murder train pulling away from

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that's going on in Arizona where she's representing herself. Oh boy. And oh boy, is that a party? Let me tell you mistakes. I have watched every second of that trial So we got some real fun stuff We'll show you why it's a bad idea to represent yourself. Don't do that They say anyone who represents themselves has a fool for a client and she didn't go to school for she proves that rule Let me tell you something. That'll be a lot of fun patreon.com Slash crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. That said,

I think it's time, Jimmy, let's sit back. What do you say everybody? Clear the lungs, arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Let's do this. Hey, let's go on a trip. Yeah, shall we? Let's do it. We are going to Arkansas this week. Oh boy. Are we we know it's going to be something crazy when it's in Arkansas. It always is. You guys have some creative murders down there. Let me tell you in weirdos. Yeah, this is in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Yeah, just kind of a little bit of a bigger town, but not a big city by any stretch

of the imagination. If you've ever seen any of the West Memphis three stuff or any of the West Memphis Three stuff or any of that stuff, not a real big place. This is in northeast Arkansas, about an hour, hour and five to Memphis, which is right there, about two hours the other direction to Little Rock, it's kind of in the middle, and an hour and 20

to Horseshoe Lake, Arkansas, which was our last Arkansas episode, Kill and Let Live, which is the one where someone had their family member killed then they they they ended up taking the murderer in when they got out of jail and then the murderer killed them too again so it's like you know come on population here seventy seven thousand five twenty and it's bigger than it was at the time median household income here is low normally it's bigger than it was at the time. Median household income here is low. Normally it's about 69,000 bucks here. It's 48,901.

Why is it growing? It's lower, yeah. What's going on? It's cheaper than Memphis maybe is what it is. Median home price here, 197,900 bucks, which is under 200 grand. You'll see that a lot. Yeah, it's real low.

Motto, people, pride, progress. You bet. Yeah, I don't know. I was gonna say, there's a couple words, that there's people there probably. Yeah, and then other parts. I know there's people. History of this town here, after the US acquired Arkansas

as part of the Louisiana Purchase, yeah, that's when American settlers started making their way around Jonesboro, started out with hunting and trapping and trading with the local tribes and all that kind of thing. Permanent settlement was established here in 1859 when the county was was established. Craighead County there. Craighead. Yeah. Head of Craig.

Just the first courthouse was destroyed by a fire in 1869 This is the history should just be called Old-timey fires. That's what we should let's go to the old-timey fire section and tornadoes I've got old-timey fire too for second semester. It's gonna be good. Yeah, it's a 2.0. Yeah, that's good. You gotta have that have that. It's an employee, I think it's a prerequisite. I think so, yeah. You have to have that to graduate. A store across the street from the court was rented. They just said, we'll take your store

and use that as the courthouse. As the courthouse, yeah. Just sit up by the cash register there, the judge. That was destroyed by a fire seven years later, so that didn't work out either. Paper or plastic for your warrant. So then another building was constructed on the same site right of the second fire Uh-huh, and then two years later it burned. Yeah, are we sensing a pattern here the stop building with wood a

Major fire that destroyed most of Jones dad downtown Jonesboro So then they they constructed another courthouse that lasted till 1934 when they just built an underwire. No no no 1968 F4 struck Jonesboro destroying 164 homes. If it's not on fire it's being blown into the fucking Mississippi. Maybe if it's on fire and then it's blown while it's on fire it'll spread. At least put the fire out. Yeah, 34 people died God fire Jesus It struck at 10 o'clock at night people go to bed sleepy ones may 27th 1973 and f4 struck drones borough Killing three injuring 289 60 million dollars in damage in 1973 dollars So that's like what 80 billion today or something knows

Then a large destructive f3 tornado struck them in 22. Are you sensing a pattern? I hate how funny this is. And it's so religious there. Do you take a hint that God does not want you there? They don't. How do you literally trying to blow you away from the area does not want you. I guess it pushes you to the other way where you're like, please, Jesus, stop.

I guess I don't know. This caused severe damage to the mall at Turtle Creek. Yeah. So the mall's all fucked up. The chess king is full of garbage reviews of this town because we've never been there. We've driven by it. Well, I can't now. I'm scared to death. Tarnate. I guess I'm going to check the weather constantly. Jonesboro. Here's five stars of a a review Jonesboro is a very personal town. I don't know what that means It is it is a big town, but the town is small enough to make very personal

Connections a lot has changed since kovat 19 and the tornado came through The tornado they're doing now there are many changes that took place, but it has helped us to not take Jonesboro for granted. Okay, we're too serious, like it's about to go away. It says he's going to continue to support the town as it's rebuilding slowly but surely from this tornado that destroyed the mall. The tornado. The tornado.

Three stars here. This is a long one, so I'm just going to read one line of it that's important. A lot of it is just boring. Tornadoes will be a constant threat to this area for the majority of the year, so if that scares you, you might reconsider moving here. It's all tornadoes. If it doesn't scare you, what the fuck have you been through? What are you doing?

Yeah. Two stars. We're a military family. We had to move here since my husband became a recruiter. We've seen many other places places and let me tell you, for being such a small place, there's more shootings per year than El Paso with half a million population.

That's half a million, more than five times as many people. Other than that, we can't wait to get out of this mosquito hell and get stationed wherever, as long as it's not here. To anywhere else. Alaska, great. I'll buy a park a bucket one star finally mosquito hell one star I've never been to a worst town in my entire life crack heads are everywhere I've seen

villages in Serbia that look better than this trash hole I've been to 16 countries and lived on three different continents and Jonesboro is one of the most ugliest, most disgusting places I've ever seen. I will never go back there for any reason ever. Rather than being war torn Serbia. Jesus Christ. And by the way, because we had a couple of people in Wyoming get mad at us.

These aren't our reviews. We didn't say it, man. We're just reading other people's. It's on the internet, you can see it. We threw a five star in in Wyoming get mad at us. These aren't our reviews. We didn't say it, man. We're just reading other people's shit. It's on the internet, you can see it. We threw a five star in there, we're gotta have balance. I don't know. Things to do here, Local Fest. That's literally what's called Local Fest.

Come see the locals. They're gonna, it says they're gonna showcase artists, artisans, businesses, comedians, musicians, and so much more. Oh, those poor comedians in that one. Poor comics. Oh, boy. Oh, can you imagine?

In between two bands with like a magic guy walking around with kids in the crowd. What a fucking nightmare. But they have a lot of music here. I'll read them off. Lucas Tyler, Zach Childers. You know these people? Yeah.

Oh, you do? No. Okay. Zach Childers sounds like me that's a that's just a country singer like Tyler Childers he's terrific but I don't know this Tyler's act the same thing yeah if I ever hear a country song from now on I'm gonna go it's Zach Childers I know that and everyone will go yeah probably it sounds right James Carville not James Carville James Carville different guy

and if somebody called you I'll tell you something. Just be like, no, no, no, I'm talking about who wrote the song, the original Zack. It's Zack Childers, you know. You think this is Luke Bryan, but Zack wrote this. Zack knows what's up. Joe Bateman, that's Jason, Jason and fucking, his brother.

Zayden G., who's an Elvis tribute artist. That's one person? One person, Elvis tribute artist, striding the blast. Okay, okay. J-Ray. Not Ray J? Not Ray J, that's what I was gonna say, J-Ray. He did that.

He had made a sex tape with a different Kardashian. No blow jobs from anybody, it's J-Ray. J-Ray. Aaron Walters, Nathan Younger, the last monarchs of fall. Just Jeff. Is that what it's J Ray J Ray Aaron Walters Nathan Younger the last monarchs of fall just Jeff Just Jeff. Hi, I'm Jeff electric voodoo explosion Welcome to local fest everybody. I'm just Welcome to local fest. Here's Jeff. Just yeah, I'm just Jeff play some songs Jack chill Zach Childers wrote me this one, I think you'll like it.

That said, let's talk about some murder everybody. What do you say that we have this down down? This does not sound great. No. All right, first let's talk about a man, Mark Despain. Or Despain, I guess it is. Probably Despain, yeah. D-E-S-P-A.

D-E, D-E-Spain. Despain. Of Spain. Yeah. D S P a D D E Spain, right? The Spain of Spain. Yeah. Um, the Spain he is born April 16th, 1977. Parents names are Jack and Tana Tana T a N a T Tana. Right. I'm going with it's probably Tana. I guess Ted. It's Arkansas. It's Tana. Tana. There's the word, the sound, uh, doesn't really exist much. And their mom tried to give her the name Tanya

But she said it real guy in there or an eye or something Darrell kicking she said Tana Tana just Ta there's an end and something in there. I don't know put it in I can't feel my toes And it's wonderful Never felt that I kind of like I like it. Grew up in Jonesboro. He's a 1995 graduate of Nettleton High School. He was a member of the football team. He was a big football star there and stuff.

So kind of small town Arkansas kind of guy. Now he meets a young woman when he's 19. He meets an 18 year old named Michelle Kelly at the time. And she is 18 already has a daughter from a previous relationship. Atta girl. So she's coming into this with a child. Through and through Arkansas.

Busy. When they met, she's 18, he's 19, and she's a pretty young lady. And when he met her, she was sitting on top of a car that's my gal which is on the roof dude yeah and for think about when Mark is born 1977 so he came up watching like white snake videos if you see a chick on a car that's just hot it doesn't matter if she's hot it doesn't matter if it's a 70 fucking 7 Nova it doesn't matter. It's hot

Although license to drive did take all of the mystique of that being sexy out of it kind of she was dancing on the roof In her high heels just tearing the mother fucker He still wanted a fucker though, didn't he Destroying my grandfather's car and I still want to have sex with you. Why cuz you're on top of a car I don't know what it is circles in there with your heels But to be sitting up there forget about it. So they start going out before long. She's pregnant again Oh, she's fertile this one. Yeah, you gotta be careful on this. You're leaving it in there. Oh, yeah, this is a not She's making babies. Yeah, this is a, this is not into, which is weird too, because at the time, we're talking mid-90s.

I mean, it's not like anyone, everyone knew about condoms by then. Yeah, yeah. They were pretty, it's constant. Yes, oh it was. If you was watching MTV, every other commercial was for safe sex and shit. It was, for lack of a better term,

rammed down your throat. We all knew so much. There were jokes in movies,. They were every that's everything So that is at that point and and in Jonesboro Yeah, if you got a girl pregnant you better marry about to have a baby and get married the last guy didn't take that to To heart but this guy does marks. I guess a decent man's a good fella. Yeah, so they basically had a shotgun wedding Yeah, the mark and his parents here, now her parents are divorced. Her mom and her dad, Kathy and Carl, there.

So everybody was there and everything like that. Mark's parents bought them a trailer to live in and Mark started working for the family real estate business. So they're not poor people, this family at all. So they can help them out a little bit, which helps. They get married, this is 1996, they get married and all that. Mark, by the way, happy to help raise the daughter

from the previous relationship, doesn't care, so we're all one family here. So they end up having two sons. Oh boy. These two here, the one that was from the beginning of the marriage and they have another one a couple years later. Now after a few years, Mark and his family

start having business problems. Sure. Meaning not that the business is going bad, but they are fighting about the business. Oh? Yeah, he worked for a number of years with his parents, but had a big argument with them, so he leaves to start his own.

Yeah. He wanted a bigger slice of the money. He's gonna compete. He's gonna, well I think he's going into something slightly different too. But he wanted a bigger slice of cash and Jack said no, his dad and that was that. The mom here said the fight really began

between Michelle and Jack, not Mark and Jack. But Mark stood up for his wife and that put pressure between him and his dad. Yep, she said, you're screwing my husband over and he said, who the hell are you? Would you say anything? And she said, that's my wife. That's who it is. The lady that wants a foundation under the house.

That's who I am. You know the argument. Yeah. The lady who'd like to be on a fucking concrete slab. So I guess that was a big deal. And the mom said that when Michelle said something, then the dad just flipped out, flipped off the handle and really had a, a freak out about the whole thing. So he said, okay, I'm starting my own real estate appraisal and investment business with his wife.

He said, yeah, Michelle. Um, so dad, Jack was like, good, fucking fine with me. Do your own thing. Um, now Jack later said my wife and I both wanted to be separated from Mark and Michelle as far as the business was concerned. They were tired of it there. So Mark does his own thing, Michelle helps out. She's like the bookkeeper and does paperwork

and all that kind of shit. Apparently Mark had some balls, everybody said. He bought some trailer park that everybody was like, that's a huge piece of shit. What are you guys? What are you the hell you doing and he ended up flipping it making about a hundred thousand in profit? So people are like, okay, he's a shit what well look at they knows what he's doing So he figured out how to do that and how to flip things and that's what he was doing So he starts making a shitload of money. Starts doing really, really well. They move out of the trailer.

They move into an absolutely beautiful, nice, big four bedroom home with a big swimming pool. Whole deal. I mean, American dream shit there. They go from the trailer to a big, not only a foundation, a basement. You can go underground. Got a hole underground for when that F3 comes through and then another one to swim in

Got many holes my friend got many bought me a couple of holes today smart man He figured out you can sell shit and still make money off it. Yeah, Walmart's done it for fucking 50 years I have to find underpriced. Yeah under undervalued assets. You can flip them It's like people do on eBay or whatever It was a kind of yeah They do that with everything people have they go out to thrift stores and just buy crap sure I can make two dollars on that Three dollars on that all of a sudden. I got five dollars Yeah, look at that so they ended up through they're working very hard Michelle and mark and apparently you know the material things are

Plenty we're buying them. They're flowing. The kids get anything they want. They're swimming in the pool and you know, all that kind of shit. They go on multiple vacations a year and they're not going to like, you know, hot springs. They're going to Jamaica and Cancun and shit like that. Several times a year.

Yeah, real vacations with islands and people that, you know, don't want you there and shit like that. Yeah. For a couple weeks a year, each time. Yeah, like a week here, week there, it's a lot. So there's an incident that happens, known as the incident to these people. It's the tornado.

No, no, no, this is the pre-tornado. Yeah, this is a tornado that goes through their life. Apparently, Mark and Michelle found topless photos of Michelle's teenage daughter. Nope. Okay. On Grandpa Jack's cell phone. What the fuck? That's the accusation.

So, yeah, that was a big deal. Michelle would later say he just immediately stood up for Brooke and stood up for me. Brooke is the daughter. The deal did not end. Right. He just immediately stood up for Brooke and stood up for me Brooke is this daughter so the Tana ends up Bertana whatever Tana ends up leaving Jack over this really yes She leaves Jack ends up that she ends up coming back to him

Because it was learned later on it was found out that Apparently Brooke had borrowed Jack's phone and the pictures were selfies She took them herself took them herself on his phone. You know, they're you didn't realize that she didn't remember no no Apparently she had taken the photographs of herself and was sending them to a boy From grandpa's phone. What the fuck she'd have her own phone That's how she was sending them away. So then they blamed Jack Yeah, and but I guess it came out that she said I was sending a boy Yeah, ended up coming out. So also she probably had some guilt and I was like now grandpas broke up the family

Like yeah now Christmas is you're not even related to these people by the way, and you've already so And that's that's a just a messy situation a teenage girl I mean who the hell knows what was going on. So they said there was never any charges filed in that case. And now Tana ended up going back to Jack and saying it looked like a cruel plan cooked up by Michelle to try to, so that would mean that Michelle went to her teenage daughter and said,

listen, first of all, get your tits out. Number one, got a friend. Second of all, these are any boys that you'd like to see those. Well, here's what you're going to do. Use this, which would be maybe the worst parenting move I've ever heard of possibly. I'd be close. It's a, but what this also sounds like to me is they already don't like her. That's part of that is very very oh, yeah, and boy is it They don't put it past her to do that. That's how that's how low crazy they think of her So yeah

And then Tana later on said we found out later that Michelle had just decided to put Brooke up to doing that so that it would draw a wedge between us and the family That is a that's a big accusation. It would make more sense if the kid was just trying to do it if she did it from one of her parents' phones, she thought they might find it and figure Grandpa Jack doesn't know shit about phones. Yeah, I've never seen this. That's kind of, that's kind of Occam's razor anyway.

Probably just deleted the messages and didn't even think about the camera, the phone, the pictures still staying in there. Yeah, who knows? Teenagers, their brains aren't formed all the way, so this is what happens. They're not good at this. Mostly forgot to delete them. So we don't put them in charge of anything.

Because they'll forget things. They can't even be in charge of their own goddamn lives. No, no, not at all. So apparently the father and son, though, never spoke to each other again after that. Jack's done with them. Yeah, and he's done with Jack, because he thinks, yeah, so it's a big deal.

So either way, Michelle is telling him that this is what happened and who knows. So Michelle here by the 2000, the late aughts here 08 09 10, she's working at a local bank in addition to helping Mark with his business. Yeah. And you go why is he, why is she working? Yeah. If they're doing so well. Because they're not. Because they're not, because it's real estate. Yeah. Oh, that's not. 2009, 2010, 2011. Banking is not a good time to be in either.

No, well, if you're a teller, I guess, it's fine, I wouldn't want to be investing in anything. No. But for the real estate business, that's tough times. Yeah, not easy. So now, Tana said originally about Michelle before the whole Brooke debacle, I liked her and as their children began to come along,

I thought she was a good wife and a good mother. And that was before. But she said, he always worked hard whereas Michelle spent money hard. That's what Tana said. But Mark, he liked being able to provide. I work hard so I can have a nice time. It feels good to buy your family shit. But Mark, he liked them to spend, he liked being able to provide. Yeah. That's a- I work hard so they can have a nice time.

It feels good to buy your family shit. It does, it feels good to be able to provide things. So Tana said she liked to buy things for the kids and it was always extravagance, including vacations at resorts. She said sometimes three and four times a year to Cancun or Jamaica. Every three months?

That's too much. That's a lot. That's a lot. I don't know who the hell you think you are vacationing like that. That's great. That's just arrogant, isn't it? Every 90 days you're in another country?

That's like, you may as well just live there and that's what she wants to do. She wants to be an expat and live somewhere opulent. She just wants to go to exotic, they both do, they want to go to exotic tracations. The two of them, they want to take the kids. Tana said the more money that Mark made, the more things she wanted.

She liked to associate with people who had money. She liked to rub elbows with big wigs. Why? She was into it, I don't know. Those people are dicks. Made her feel important. It's the last thing I want to do, but some people like to be like, ooh, I'm in with the important people, It made her feel important. Those people are dicks. It's the last thing I wanna do. But some people like to be like,

ooh, I'm in with the important people, who they deem important. So the problem is, there's around 2010 and all that, 2011, money troubles are coming up big. Apparently he went to Michelle's mother to borrow some money to get gifts for them and stuff because it didn't have any money and She said he was kind of embarrassed to have to come to get money because usually it has a lot of money But he needed to buy Michelle a birthday present

So it was it was bad stuff a lot of Mark's rental properties were You know upside down and value the banks are closing in on shit tenants are being forced out of the homes Oh, I can't afford to pay the rent. So it's a lot. So he's kicking a lot of people out, pissing off a lot of people, by the way, as you can imagine. Yeah, the guy who's booting everyone out

is not a popular guy. So that's a lot. Now, Wednesday, August 24th, 2011. All right, here's Michelle's day. Went to work at the bank. She ended up going out to lunch with Mark that day and then coming back to the bank by like 1.30 and then at 2.30 she takes off telling the people

at the bank she had to go home that afternoon to pick up some bills that needed to be paid. She's off early then. She's taking off early. Well, whether she's off early or not, she's going home. She's going. So she got home, she said off early or not, she's going home. She's going. So she got home, she said there's no lights on

in the house at all. Yeah, 2.30 in the afternoon, and what lights are you leaving on when you go? So she said the house was completely ransacked. They were just torn apart. All the drawers were open. All their shit was thrown on the floor. There was like clothes in the bathtub. It was very weird thing broken glass everywhere she said all throughout

the house crunching glass as she walked around a jewelry box had been opened in the bedroom and shit strewn about so she walks all through the house then she gets to the kitchen and on the kitchen floor is Mark oh very dead yeah and very bloody oh two gunshot wounds oh no not looking good at all and Michelle said The kitchen floor is Mark. Oh. Very dead. Yeah. And very bloody. Oh? Two gunshot wounds. Oh no. Not looking good at all. And Michelle said she shook his leg and said,

Mark, and he didn't respond, you know, because he's got holes in his head. All right. And then she freaked out. So that's what she said. She said that, quote, and he was laying on the floor and there was blood coming all out from behind him and I shook his leg and said his name

and I looked around and there was stuff on the floor everywhere and I got scared. And I put it together, this is not good. This is bad, I should leave. So she ran outside and called 911. She told the 911 operator, she doesn't know if there's someone in the house and she's afraid for her own safety.

So they told her stay out of the fucking house, obviously. So she calls 911 and does all of that. Then she goes and bangs on a neighbor's house to try to get into their house, nobody answered. So she called her mother, Kathy, and then Kathy came to be with her. And then basically everybody ends up in the yard pretty soon. Mom, mom, did you see my race?

Oh, of course I did, darling. Look, you did your best. You tried. The thing is, it's not about winning. It's about taking part. Next year you might do better. But I did win, Mom! You did?

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obviously looks like a burglary that went bad some maybe a maybe somebody can't pay their rent perhaps you know so there's one gunshot wound to the left side of his chest and one in his head both shots from close range. Shotgun? No, no. Just gunshot? Handgun, yeah, pistol. So they said there appeared to be one gunshot wound to the left side of his chest through his shirt and a second bullet wound in his head.

That was the kill shot. It was inflicted from very close range after he'd fallen to the floor. Oh, from the first shot. Yeah, so he went down and they came over, finished him off. He said that the detective said, I refer to it as an execution style

almost directly between his eyes. Is that how you refer to it? A lot of people refer to it like that. I came up with this term. It's coined a real nice one. Listen, it's called. I think it's kind of clever. I think people are gonna pick up on it.

I don't know. I like to say. I like to say this. It's fun to say. But directly between the eyes. So that means he was probably still alive and had to right see it. Yeah, which is pretty Fucked up hold. Yeah, so they said not mark Not only went all the way to the kitchen, but they noticed that on the kitchen table There is ice cream sitting there melting and his cell phone right next to the ice cream

I have some ice cream about to have some ice cream. About to have some ice cream. So, which is funny because that, not funny, but if you follow the OJ case really closely, Nicole Brown Simpson had some Haagen-Dazs melting in there when this all has happened. So it just made me think of that. So they said, they looked all around

and the cops said that the weird thing is that like, TVs, computers, all that stuff, not touched. All left alone. All that's left alone. High ticket item shit is all left alone. Very easy to move, less traceable. Yeah, that's what I mean. So they look at that and they're like,

huh, that's interesting. The fact that his keys, cell phone, and ice cream are right on the counter, and the fact that he and his wife went out and got an ice cream and he brought that home says that they think that it's probably he walked in, got ambushed and was totally off guard. Just put his shit down like a normal thing and somebody was there and popped out. So they're looking at the burglary and Detective Vic Brooks said, when I first walked in, I noticed there were some papers that appeared to be knocked on the ground

And there were some broken glass and stuff like that on the floor So they said that you know the jewelry case was toppled over like somebody was looking for something but as they look at the items that have been left behind like the computers and TVs and all that thing and It's just a weird thing too, and it's very personal the in the forehead type thing. It's just a weird thing too. And it's very personal, the forehead type thing. It's real strange. So then they said they believed that it wasn't a burglarie and instead a planned attack because somebody attacked him before he even got the ice cream put away.

So they got him right then. Probably if it was a burglar, they might hide for a little while or something. They're not gonna be like, soon as this guy walks in, I'm gonna shoot him. That's a lot. So they believe the person was already inside the house when he got home.

Had to be. And it looked like whoever entered the home that day was not there to steal, but to kill. So what do you do? And the kill had, nothing was broken or anything but before, they did it after. Yeah, probably, or might have broken it up beforehand. But probably after, you wouldn't want him to notice it.

So police go around and question all the neighbors on the street and they are informed of two separate sightings that they thought were odd in the neighborhood. Yeah. One is a black guy. Okay. I don't know if that's that or if it's just a black guy. They said they had never seen this particular black guy on the street before that day. So they also, they also saw a blue Mercedes

that appeared to be circling the neighborhood. Separate things, black guy walking, Mercedes circling. So they were trying to figure that out. So they go, okay, that's something to put on the shelf for later. It's just somebody that was seen in the neighborhood. So they try to establish, does he have any enemies? So many. And they're told by a shitload of people fuck yeah I hate that guy. Fuck that guy. Like he's got a lot of enemies a lot of people told them that he was a ruthless ambitious businessman who kicks people out of his places and I mean he's just he's a ambitious guy it's he's a businessman. It's a tough way to be but it's the only way to be. Doesn't make any

fucking friends though. It's when you're dead on the floor people go. I didn't like him either. That's not great I mean a lot of people probably so the day of them of this whole thing They don't they only speak to Michelle briefly at the crime scene just to say you know you came in what time and to do all Of that, but the detective said you're speaking with an individual who's just lost her husband at that time. She was upset So I waited until the following day to conduct a formal interview with her But they do a lot of other shit putting together before that so They retrace mark steps because he wasn't supposed to be home at that time at that day Oh, it's not a time when he always comes home. It's not like you could watch him and far find a pattern

This was an aberrant thing so they could could surprise somebody. So that or they're thinking either that he surprised somebody who thought he would be gone or this would be a person who knows, planned it, it knows exactly where he is even when he's not supposed to be somewhere, they know. So that would be someone very close to him. So one or the other, either it's either somebody incredibly far or somebody incredibly close. Incredibly close, yeah. Can't be in between. Either real diabolical or just terrible luck for a burglar.

One of the two. On him, obviously more. So Michelle told police that she met him for lunch that day. They went to a place close to the bank where she worked. She said she was back in her office by 1 30 and then left at 2 30 again to get some bills. And that's when she found Mark. And that is all corroborated by security camera footage and all that kind of thing so Does anyone hate mark they asked her who hates who really hates mark not just oh

We got an argument with some guy at the gas station who hates him and her answer is his father True, that's 1a is the father so So she said, I mean, I hate to think his dad would do anything like that because it's, it's his son, but he is just very, very cold hearted, meaning the father. She said that Jack's just a cold hearted guy. She told them there'd been some trouble due to an incident that happened between a 13 year old brook. Oh Jesus at the time Wow, yeah, awkward 13. That's yeah, that's crazy who found him. You know, I mean do he find? Yeah I don't know. I'd be horrified at the wife find him. Fuck. That's That's a lot. So

now Michelle's father they talked to him, because Michelle's father works for Mark as a rent collector. So they talked to him, and do you know anybody that would, you know the business people, do you know anyone that would hate him? And he said, this is Carl Kelly, the dad, Carl Dwayne Kelly, he said that, Jack, that's the guy,

it's Jack, he said, I've heard him threaten him in the past. And he said, yeah, if I was gonna point a finger at anybody, if that's what you're asking, I pointed at Jack. That's what he said. He said, he's told Mark he's the devil himself, his self. He's the devil's advocate, which is not the devil. It's a totally different person. He's told him that more than once. And he believes that, Oh, Carl Dwayne, Carl Dwayne Carl Dwayne

He said Jack told mark. I will ruin you and your family. I've heard him say that yeah Well, that means you motherfucker. You're part of it. Yeah, he said I went deer hunting with him and everything else He treated me real well talking about mark. He said mark was nice to me and He said yeah, Michelle said the same thing. He's got a really good relationship with my family just not his own family so they said you know they keep looking around and then everybody they talked to multiple people five six people said the same thing they said yeah Mark told me that if anything ever happens to me look at my dad he's the one who did it dad did it so they're like hmm all right he calls me Keanu Reeves.

It's so weird, such a strange thing. So, detectives talk to Jack, obviously. They're gonna interrogate Jack, and Jack says we fell out over money and business shit and all that kind of thing, and that's what it was, and due to Michelle, always. And Jack told police they should look into Michelle's movements the day his son was killed killed because he believed that she's involved in some way

Like some deflection. Yeah pointing fingers at each other Yeah He told police that his son returned home that day to get a bow for hunting and Michelle would have been the only person who? Knew he was home. So there you go Now he also said quote he was he was hard-nosed my son He was not a very good people person as long as he could get that dollar out of you He'd turn around and crap on you and walk away. You know, that's the way he was good kid. Nice guy. Well raised him well Me and his mother raised him right. We're very off the old piece of shit

Turned off the old piece of shit. So, turn off the old log. Here, turn off the old log, my friend. The detectives are taking aback that this is, his son was killed that day. And he's saying this, they're like, Jesus, dude. They said you would do it, and you're kinda telling us. Nobody likes my son, including me. That you would do it.

And then he tries to, Jack then says, I think Carl was in on it. Oh, CD. Yeah, meaning the father-in-law there. And my suspicion is that, you know, he did finally piss off Carl enough that he actually done something like that. That's, once again, I'm not trying to point the finger.

That's just a concern. That's what Jack says. I'm not trying to point any fingers at somebody that just gave you their name I'm just saying a guy probably murdered someone not accusing him of nothing though you know I'm saying if you're looking for a murderer I'd investigate Carl Dwayne I'm saying and I don't want to point fingers that's exactly what he said you tell you know not trying to play the finger Wow. So Jack tells the detectives that Mark was constantly rude to Carl.

He said, I have seen him personally how he had just treated him like a dog. He said, Carl's told me that he's going to kill me personally, but he's also told my son that, you know. Then why does he still work for him? That's the thing. Why would Mark have him? We heard that about you. Jack claims also an angry Carl even waved a gun around one time.

He said quote and said, I'll just kill your ass right now and had the gun pointed right at me. Oh. And he also blames Michelle. He said I know how he treated her pretty much like he treated his father-in-law. Does she have anything to do with it? That's another slight suspicion of mine. Not trying to point any fingers.

Now, not trying to say nothing about that. I'm just giving you exact names and facts. That's all it is there. Not pointing any fingers. But I know investigator. So they look into the incident, by the way. Jack told police that Brooke had been sexting her boyfriend and Jack found the photos and threatened to tell her parents, but she told them instead and said that Jack had taken the photos

We're on the phone. What the fuck look and that's that's when that started. She tried to minimize to get out of trouble I realized that she was maximizing. Yeah, and also that there's selfies too. Yeah. So that didn't work either. And it's so much worse. So when all that came out, it ended up, that Tana ended up moving back. And Jack said, at that point, he said he was just

fucking, you know, his life was a mess. He said, I could have opened up my own whiskey store. I think there's that much whiskey. Oh, that he was drinking? Drinking. I drank too much and typically I don much whiskey. Oh, that he was drinking. Drinking. I drank too much and typically I don't drink. Well, that was just to kill the pain because everybody assumed that you're abusing your own granddaughter. Oh my God. That's horrifying. Poor Jack. So they said, did this maybe drive Jack to take some revenge against these people

now? It's a pretty, yeah, pretty easy jump. Jack said no, he wanted to reconcile with Mark. I'd rather drink and take it out on me. Yeah. He Jack said no he wanted to reconcile with mark I'd rather drink and take it out on me Yeah, he said I want to reconcile with mark and also Jack said when that whole afternoon I was miles away at my own house and the alibi is checked out and People you know they're gonna check that out But other family members came down to the police station and said don't be fooled by Jack's tears he's a violent guy and he's angry. What is going on? Yeah so that's a lot. That's that's that's a whole lot. So police check out his alibi and it turns out he was where he says he was

his alibi checked out he was fixing his roof at home which is the best thing to be fixing when you need to be seen because everyone in the neighborhood sees you you're on top Yeah, you're standing on your house. Yeah, making all kinds of noise your neighbors hate you about it. Yeah, yeah That's the most you know He was roofing because I was trying to take a fucking nap and just cut tap tap tap tap I was trying to watch Wapner and fucking taking this whole thing judge Judy didn't like it either So he also said I didn't feel anything as being fake from him. He appeared to be a broken man at the time,

the detective said also about Jack. So now they have to widen their investigation because Jack himself didn't do it. He was on the roof. Maybe he hired somebody, but he himself wasn't there. And if you were going to have somebody murdered, you'd probably go on your roof and start hammering that day. It's a great plan.

Yeah, that's like when people would go to a store to be seen on the surveillance footage and walking around. So it's very weird. So Jack, they said he just lost his son. So the detective said he was convinced that Jack's grief was genuine. He said, from all the interviews and everything that I've done over the years, it was very obvious that Mr. DeSpain was representing and showing true sadness.

He was being honest. So he's the first one to be cleared as a suspect. Right. When they verify all everything where he was. So then they turn their attention to Michelle, because they have to interview her anyway, and they find out from asking around that they weren't exactly such a perfect couple after all number one

There are two insurance policies on Mark each one of them for five hundred thousand dollars. So there's a million dollars here on one guy They didn't she didn't say that at first then They said that they found out that not only that, Michelle has been having an affair with somebody from the bank. What? Yes, for quite a long time.

By the way, a 24-year-old guy from the bank. Wow. Yeah, she's like 34. So she's going out and getting some live copy. Wow. So not only was she having an affair with him, she also paid his rent and bought him groceries and anything else his car insurance all she was paying for this guy He's doing great. He's got a gumara on the side over here. She's got this is like a mob guy with his second wife here

This is that young man cracked the Da Vinci code. Wow. Yes. Yeah, I guess so. I think once I mean start coming up dead I'm running away from the situation. Oh shit. You don't want the married one, you just want an older lady to take care of you. That sounds great. Wow. So the detective said,

Michelle told me that she was having an affair with a coworker, a young man, I believe he was 24 at the time. Oh my God. Mark did not know about this. Oh. So they said that, the detective said, she was paying his rent.

She paid for him to move, bought him groceries. And Michelle said that the detective said she was paying his rent. She paid for him to move bottom groceries. And Michelle said in her interview here, I gave that guy, that young guy a lot of money. So they also found out that Michelle, they thought she was swindling money from the real estate business as well too. Yeah. She's got bills. Yeah. And Tana said they were in a tremendous amount of debt. I'm talking over two million dollars Oh my god a lot of debt and the detective said looking at the books and everything it appeared They were living well beyond their means they were just spending money like they were still making it Wow before the you know the market fell apart

So they said that this was causing a lot of friction at home And then the detective said I believe that mark had finally become a little bit suspicious as to the events as they were happening Michelle told the cops that mark did not know about the affair, but the cops wonder if that's true or not or did he find out? so They asked him they asked her did mark ever ask you for a divorce recently or anything like that And they said Michelle did mark ask you for a divorce recently? And she said, he didn't ask me for a divorce. What did he ask you for? What is that? Yeah, that's I mean, if someone says that I go, what am I?

Where? Where? What lines am I reading between here? Because that's not no bullshit. Are you trying to pull? So the detective obviously got the same shit and he said, well, what did he tell you? Yeah. And she said that he didn't know if we would stay married after the kids were grown Okay, which is I mean that's we're growing apart. I'm filing papers. Yeah, that's I don't want to ruin the kids lives I don't want to have anything. Let's just keep it together till they graduate, and then we'll just go our separate ways

Have adult kids with divorced parents Once they're good well once they're gone they're adults, and that's not our yeah not our fault anymore That's all. Have adult kids with divorced parents. They have them all the time. That's all, they won't care. Once they're gone, they're adults, and that's not our fault anymore. Listen, you grew up without psychological damage. Now, you deal with it. Go have your own children. Therapist is that way, enjoy.

You can pay for it too now, because you're an adult. Yeah, because you got your own insurance. But you get your own kids, you can make your own fucking traditions. You don't need to come to mom and dad's house. So she said that he hadn't, but he also told her that he couldn't see the future.

So they also discover here, they find out about all the debt and everything like that. P.S. that's like the worst thing you could say to somebody. You know, we're not gonna, yeah. That's like, yeah. What are we gonna do, sit here and stare at each other for the next 10 years until they go? It's so bad.

So she, though, ended up getting a million dollars in life insurance out of this Yeah, so the but the police don't have any evidence against her or anything else surveillance footage from the bank where she worked confirmed exactly What she said she was at the bank when this happened Michelle met her father Carl at the bank right around the time They think the murder was happening and Michelle, the surveillance footage confirms that. So that's, you know, I mean, what do you do? Also what does that do for her? A million dollars puts her still a million in debt?

Well, if he's dead, there's probably some of it that's white. Yeah, it's probably a lot of it's the business. Oh, the business is in debt. That's not that's not. Yeah, that's why you LLC yourself. So yeah. That's not yeah, that's why you LLC yourself. So So Michelle's neighbor here Said that I thought it was odd that she was standing calmly in the middle of the lawn after her husband was shot They said that she was just talking on her phone. Yeah, they said she didn't appear to be grieving at all

It wasn't like she was like, you know running around asking for help and all that kind of thing Mark's sister said I think what bothered me the most was how clean she was. Like her hair was still perfect, her nails were still perfect. What would you, and they said, well what would you have expected in an interview? And she said, oh well as brutal as it sounds,

I don't know, some blood underneath her fingernails or something like that where she tried to get down to try to help him. You know, grab him and see if he's okay. Not just. She kicked his foot. shake a pant leg, shake a fucking Docker, fucking leg real quick. And it looks like you have a headache. Oh no. And then run away. Yeah. All right.

Then an anonymous tip comes in. Here we go. Okay. Yeah. Someone who has nothing to do with any of these people called up and said that they know a guy who has been bragging around that. He's the guy who killed mark. Oh Okay, so they're like, okay Who the fuck is that? So the guy they say did this is Terrence Odell Barker known on the street as Quelo Really? Quelo. Yeah, old Quelo close. No, so they bring an old quelo for questioning here and He denies being involved in Mark's death. Yeah, and he said I suppose quote I supposed to been shot a motherfucker. I didn't shoot no motherfucker

So if you didn't shoot no motherfucker, you know, that's whatever so the police go well we have So if you didn't shoot no motherfucker, you know, that's whatever. So the police go, well, we have evidence against you because when we, we got your picture and showed it to all the neighbors and you're the black guy, they said was walking around the neighborhood and you don't live anywhere fucking near there. You don't have any reason to be there. So what's up with that? And they said, as a matter of fact, your cell phone records also, the towers say that you

were right by his house. You were there. You don't know this guy so why are there yeah they said also that you were seen in a blue Mercedes right before the bright just before Mark was shot so they presented the evidence to him and he said okay I shot him oh my god I did I did it he just spills it all supposed to been but I did it. I did it. He just spills it all. That's the post of Ben, but I ain't done it. I guess I've done it. Well we got this. Yeah, I did it. I shot him motherfucker. You got me. You got me. So he said that he promised to shoot Mark for somewhere between seven and ten thousand dollars, but never got a dime of it. From who?

That's the thing here. Now, who the fuck is driving this car? Because he's walking. Johnny Hubbard is his name. Johnny Hubbard. Old Johnny Hubbard. Police found the driver. And there he is. And Johnny Hubbard would say, yeah, Terrence Barker there. Quelo's the guy who did it.

Hubbard said, quote, he said he shot him in the side, then shot him in the face. Jesus. Exactly what happened. So they said everything lined up with the evidence as it showed. Everybody's admitting it. So they said everything lined up with the evidence as it showed. Yeah. Everybody's admitting it. So they go, that's the thing. How the fuck do you know, Mark? Right. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets

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moment that could change the country forever. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Finally maybe this would be rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system. Listen to law and crimes Luigi exclusively on one degreeondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and

most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctors' offices. Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries, and each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors. So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, In the early hours of December 4, 2024, or on Spotify or Apple podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

This assailant starts firing at him. And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. It was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi,

exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. So they discovered that Johnny Hubbard knew Mark because he was one of his tenants. Yeah. One of his tenants. Johnny told police, Johnny Hubbard,

that Carl Kelly, Michelle's father, tenants. Yeah. One of his tenants, Johnny told police Johnny Hubbard that Carl Kelly, Michelle's father approached him about killing Mark. He came to collect his rent and was like, how'd you like to have free rent for a minute? I can't pay. Well, well behind a wash it. Here we go. Do this. You drive this. So they discovered that Hubbard was one of the tenants and that Kelly, Carl Kelly had approached him about it and the detective said, if you don't do what he tells you, you'll be on the street, is that what he threatened?

And Johnny said, yeah, that's what he said. They said, we're gonna kick you out of your shithole apartment. So Terrence became involved when Johnny asked him if he wanted to make some money. This all started with Johnny Hubbard. I need your help. Yeah, so then they went to a church parking lot

to meet Carl and discuss shooting Mark, the two of them. So Terrence said he would do it. Yeah. He said he had no idea who Mark was and never seen him before in his fucking life. I don't care. Didn't care. Seven to ten grand. So according to Terrence, Carl gave them the gun that was used to kill Mark. Yeah.

He showed him Mark's house and told him where to wait inside in the house. But according to Terrence though, wasn't just Carl. He said that Michelle was giving her father instructions. He said the wife was given the father instructions of where the guy was going to be. And it was a shit going to me. Father, daughter, father, tenant. Then they find texts here the detective said Terrence Barker statement is that Carl Kelly provided him with a firearm in order to do that with but they think Michelle's the one calling the shots

they said that Michelle our Terrence Barker he stated to me that she was giving play-by-play to her dad she sent him multiple text messages including one sent the day of the murder at 820 a.m. from Michelle to dad quote has to be today can't live like this awful this morning. What is her problem? And he, Carl said okay can you get him to lunch? Fine. Don't well you should probably leave then. Well okay let's murder him is the answer. I'm re-shingling but that was Jack. Fuck that was Jack yeah. Jack's got to go. He's lucky he was re-shingling that. So the phone records indicate that

Michelle and Carl sent several text messages to each other on the day of the murder, the majority of which were deleted the same day. Yeah. Bad sign. Phone records show that Mark didn't want to meet Michelle for lunch. He was saying I'm busy. She insisted they went out for lunch, then insisted they go for ice cream after lunch too and extend the whole thing. That's why you got ice cream. Yeah. They're not at the house yet. Let's go get cold stuff. We got, oh no, no, no, come here. I really want ice cream. Come on. I need apple pie, ala moat.

Wow. So the record showed that while they were in the ice cream place, she was in constant text with her father, touch with her father via text messages. The record showed that while they were in the ice cream place, she was in constant touch with her father via text messages. That's a fucking psychotic woman. She's eating her sundae going, oh, this is my dad. And giving him... Oh my god. That is cold.

Colder than ice cream. Yeah. Colder than cold stone. You're about to die today. Hold on. Yeah, we'll take mix-ins. We could mix up a cold stone on her body. She's so cold. That's body. She's so cold cold cold

So Michelle's mom is not surprised by the way Michelle's mom and and Carl have been divorced and she said I knew what Carl was capable of that's why I divorced him He had explosive temper. She said that he would never hit her because he didn't want to leave a mark He she said quote he would hold a gun to my head, hold a gun to your head. That doesn't leave marks. No marks, but scares the shit out of you. So basic plot police think that Michelle asked Mark to meet her for lunch that day, allowing Carl the opportunity to get to Terrence and get him, you know, going inside the house, setting him all up and waiting.

A text found on Michelle's phone was initially supposed to be deleted by her but was later used by the police to fuck her. She forgot to delete a couple of texts. Michelle pretended to be shocked when she found Mark dead. Obviously that's part of the whole plot, but you know, we don't know. We know the real story. She's a bad woman. So the investigators discovered Carl had been talking to other people and told them that Mark had been physically abusing Michelle and he was tired of it. So they said that they found that no abuse ever happened though when they looked at it. Of course not. So that was a lie. So that's kind of one of those. The investigation uncovers the also a total of a million dollars. So the detective said it was greed. It was money.

And Tana said it's always about the money with Michelle. Oh my word. So what does Michelle have to say for herself when presented with all this? Bad, bad bitch. Got some splain into Michelle. She initially denied everything. Of course. And then she said, okay, you're right about my dad, but I wasn't involved. Maybe my dad did it. Yup. She said my father was involved.

That's how it works. But I didn't know that until after Mark was dead. I just found out. Yeah. So this is, you know, it wasn't me. News, yeah. So they went, well, you know, what are you talking about? The detective said, I have the man that shot your husband, the one that killed him in jail

right now. She said, you know for sure that shot your husband, the one that killed him in jail right now. She said, you know for sure? Yeah, we know. Yeah. And the detective said, yes ma'am, he's in jail, okay? And then they said, at this point, I'll also be arresting your father. That's when she said, my father? What'd he do?

What do you mean? Yeah. And the detective said, quote, yes ma'am, your father will be arrested for murder. I have all the information, all the evidence I need. And Michelle said, not Mark's father. It wasn't the guy I thought. But I said you should arrest him. The detective said, no, ma'am, your father.

Carl Kelly's responsible for setting this up partly to have your husband killed. So then she turns on her father and says, and they ask her basically, were you gonna split the life insurance with your father and all that? So she turns on it, on the father hard here. The detective said, the implications are,

and everything else that's been gathered on this is that money's supposed to have been coming from you. He's greedy and lazy, what would he get out of this? Meaning your father. So you're getting all the money, your father's lazy. What are you gonna do? And Michelle said he would think that I would take care of him and Then she said that she doesn't I quote I don't want to talk about this again And he said I know you don't and then she said I want an attorney so they go sure

He can talk to you in jail because you're under arrest The judge sets a million dollar bond for her. That's funny. And they said it's because she, with all that cash, she could flee. So, you know, now she can give all that cash away if she wants to flee. So Terrence here, okay, Terrence Barker,

yeah, in court, they take him to court and he agrees to testify against anybody and everybody that they need them to gives up all the details of everything. He doesn't mind. He didn't even get paid yet. He never got a dime for this. He killed a stranger in his own home. Nothing. Yeah, nothing. Absolutely. They couldn't even find shit that was missing from the house. Right. Like he just ransacked it. So that means an honest murderer, he could've stole shit too, but he didn't. So he is going to plead guilty to first degree murder here

and he is told, you sir, may fuck off 35 years in prison for you. Not bad, this is the parole up pretty quick though. Now Johnny Hubbard is going to plead guilty to hindering apprehension and the revocation of probation from a prior drug drug charge Now he is sentenced to use sir may also fuck off 18 years in prison Plus another 20 years. Oh for violation of probation on the drug conviction and they'll be running consecutively 38 years So 38 years he just because he sold some weed a few years ago fucking not good

Whoops now Papa Carl now. Yeah, he's in court. He is also gonna plead guilty. They have all the I mean It's just text messages. Yeah, they can just read the murder plot. He's gonna go to the Yeah, and everybody except for Lori Vallow, when you have text messages that show how guilty you are, they fucking plead guilty. Except she goes, no, that doesn't mean that. That's not what that means. No, I just said he was a zombie.

In context. So he pleads guilty to first degree murder. During sentencing, Jack and Tana are going to speak to him a little bit here. Tana says, how could you, Carl? God damn it Carl Dwayne I love when they talk directly to them not just like a like a speech like this has hurt my family you son of a bitch Carl Carl why are you such an asshole?

Something about that directness of the of right to his face. It's your fucking problem. Damn it Carl of right to his face. Carl, it's your fucking problem. God damn it, Carl. After all Mark had done, you just snuffed out his life without a thought of anything but the smell of money you thought was coming. Wow. Yep, she said that you, my son has bought you,

bought you your family home and paid for vacations for you. He did all this stuff for you and this is what you do. His money has put me in a house? Yes, they helped put him in a house here. So she said, this is how you repaid his love for his family, you've been nothing but the sorryest low life scum, grandstanding blowhard bully from the start. Fuck yeah, Tana. Lay it down.

Scum. The sorryest low life scumum grandstanding blowhard bully dude that is like grandstand Mike drop Holy shit, that's awesome. That's she could be a rapper. He's a worthless piece of shit, isn't he? Yeah He is it girl sucks. She told him so. And he raised a terrible daughter, too. They're just bad people, Harry. Grandstanding piece of shit bully. God is amazing.

That's sorry, low life scum, grandstanding blowhard. That's a lot to... It is. For a regular person who's like flustered and under the gun, that's a lot to come up with. And she wrote it succinctly, but it's not hacky. It's not from anywhere else. She put blowhard. Who gets called a blowhard? gets called blowhard bully grandstand grandstand. That's great

She got it was like the scenes from do the right thing when they're all Yellow going racial slurs on each other. That's what that's seen it picked him specific specific his fuck Lay down the law Tana. So Jack also said the same thing called him a quote Piece of scum Lower than anything I've encountered or heard of on earth. It was acke until he was like, you know what? There's not even a word for it. I never heard of you in Antarctica Under the first ice layer. I've heard her tell Down there. There's a certain four celled shit eater.

It's a, it's a, it's a four celled creature that lives under there and literally shits and eats its own shit. And then re does it over and over again. You sir, are lower than the excrement pace of the shit that's been going back and forth around in there for 12 billion years Well, you 12 billion year old shit recycled shit That's all you are just over and over. You're a shit turd is what you are. That's right You've been in and out of this being a hundred two hundred times

So Thank you, your honor. Thank you. Thank you meant to say that So thank you your honor. Thank you. I got to say that They'll let him say it. They let him say anything on there So they said that when his son's money ran began running out that he's Carl received thought that he wasn't gonna get his money anymore Was it gonna get taken care of so Jack said I was pissed at you from the beginning. Yeah, this is in court. Yeah Listen piece of scum. I'm pissed at you. Hello shit turn Wow Carl hear me now. Yeah Shit crap turd if I could take your life and bring my son back. I would as they say in your stupid opinions

If I could give you zero stars Carl, I would So Carl says this yeah, what I didn't know what I was doing If I could give you zero stars Carl, I would. So Carl says this quote, I didn't know what I was doing. I'm very sorry for what I had done. Oh, Carl. And then he says, I wish it never happened. What a spineless coward. Well he is a blowhard, he's a sorry grandstanding blowhard bully scumbag, piece of scum, shit

turd, amoeba excrement. grandstanding low hard bully scumbag piece of scum shit turn Amoeba excrement Whatever the fuck you want to call it so The then they they said this is the judge here and said we are this is the prosecutor saying we have not entered into any Of these pleas without the consent of Mark's parents We've been able to obtain guilty pleas from three of the four defendants. Mark's parents have been in full agreement with it, our negotiations. She's fighting it. She's the last one. Yeah. Well, they got all three of them and all three of them are agreed to testify against her. Yeah. So now they're putting the pressure

on her to plea because it's like we have everybody that's going to say that you started this and you're the one with the money. Your shit-terred dad's ready to say you're an asshole. Yeah. Sorry. You know, you turned on him, he's turning on you now. And they say that, quote, we will now focus our sights on the final defendant, which sounds like pretty aggressive. And he is sentenced to, you sir, may fuck off, 35 years in prison.

Not bad. Again. They say here, this is the, oh no, this is, okay, yeah, this is the prosecutor again, with Kelly's guilty plea in sentencing, and thanks to the good work detective Vic Brooks in the Jonesboro Police Department, the state is one step closer in obtaining justice for Mark and his parents.

Today's proceedings will allow us to focus our time and resources on the Michelle Despain case. There we go. Oh boy. So, Michelle pleads guilty. Yeah. Yeah. That's what are you gonna do? She pleads guilty to a lesser charge of a hindering apprehension What not conspiracy to commit murder? Yeah

Hindering apprehension not even insurance. Yeah Hindering app. Yeah, there's not even a Hint or inclination that the murders involved. That's crazy According to the plea agreement the state said they agreed to the arrangement due to uncertainties faced at pretrial motion hearing so Evidence they needed wasn't being allowed in Oh the probably the fact that she was a Had to be because that's the only reason I would be allowed in yeah, that's the first Yeah, there's no reason I'll only thing

With that what are you gonna fight with that? That's conspiracy as fuck. Totally fucked. So yeah, they said potential risks to evidence admissibility during trial, the state's unavoidable reliance upon uncertain testimony from previously convicted defendants and the burden of providing unanimous proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

She could say anything about those three guys. And they could come up and change their minds about it, who knows? So they said she entered the negotiated plea, pleads guilty to three counts of hindering apprehension and prosecution of capital murder, and that means she would not face a capital murder charge herself.

As part of the agreement, she waives her right to appeal, which she doesn't really need to, because we'll find out here. She's got nothing. So Mark's parents said they were afraid that if she went on trial, there was a chance she may be found not guilty, and they wanted her to serve something.

So Mark's mom said, I felt Michelle was the ramrod of it. I think Carl and Hubbard and Barker were just taking orders. I just know that in my heart. She said that the detective Vic Brooks never gave up he told me he would get her and the day they arrested her was the best day of my life they sentence her you ma'am may fuck off 30 years in prison but

whoa okay that's in 2014 heavy but she got the lightest sentence of the group yeah which is crazy 30 years on that charge is that's intense that but That is she's up for she that's 2014 September 2019 is her first parole hearing after five years and they let her out. No way fucking let her out No, way years five years. That's a bad woman out. Oh boy Residents of Arkansas. Be fucking aware.

Somebody's in danger right now. She did five fucking, I guess six if you count jail. And under the cover of COVID, they released her. September before that. September 2019. Right. The fucking tornado didn't even hit yet. No.

The big one didn't even come through. Maybe it took her. From what I understand, she's still didn't even come through. Maybe it took her. From what I understand, she's still around. Wow. Yep. She's I looked her up. She's kicking around right now. I won't give her a location or anything like that because I don't want anybody to bother and try to attack her. Be careful. She's dangerous. This is great. It's a dangerous woman. You need a chick named Michelle. Don't. Dangerous. Don't don't don't. Yeah, that's, that's bad. So that is terrifying five years. She got for that. That's She orchestrated she's having an affair. Yeah, the 24 year old the age doesn't matter

She's having an affair with 24 year old fucking st. Louis shit bezeling money from the family business to do this I'll go shit. Yeah kills has her husband killed has Manipulates her dad her father into hiring people to kill her husband for money Yeah, and she gets five years for that. Whoo That is and she's out. There's people sitting on death row for that. Yeah, that's I just want people to understand that That's a dead-ass serious that is in style again, and she did ears and she went to it Wow amazing now is in five years. And she did it. And she pled to it. Wow. Ooh wee. Amazing.

Now, beware of her, but don't beware of the other Michelle DeSpain's. Oh. Because there's a few of them that are actually well known. Well, maybe just beware of all of them. It's not them. Just in case. Well, this one, I don't think you have to worry about.

Michelle DeSpain Hoager, she's an Argentinian-American luge athlete who competed for Argentina in the 2006 Winter Olympics. I think she's probably good. And if you can't catch her anyway, she'll luge away from you. You'll never find her. Just support her. Buy her a shirt or whatever.

And then a Michelle Despain who has a book here on Amazon called The Late Bloomer's Almanac, Cultivating Mind, Body and Soul Throughout the Year. All year long. Yes, and I know this isn't this Michelle, because the book came out in 2014 when she was in prison. So yeah, I don't think she was doing that. It's $29.99. Jesus Christ.

Seems like you must be a late bloomer if you're willing to pay 30 bucks for your fucking paperback. That's it with that shit. So there you go. Oh my God. There's Jonesboro, Arkansas. Stay the fuck out of Arkansas. Jesus. If not tornadoes, killer women and their fathers. Why isn't that in the review? If tornadoes don't scare you, maybe killer women do. And

their fathers. Watch out for that. Killer families. It's not even, yeah, the whole thing. So cause I mean, she wouldn't have done it if she didn't have somebody willing to do it. Yeah. Cause she couldn't do it I don't think she could do it And I don't think she would have known where to go to get somebody or I don't know what the father does So I figured out I blame Carl a lot here. So there you go. There's If you like this show or anything about it Please get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars because it really helps drive the show up the charts

So thank you for doing that also Shut up and give me murder.com tickets for live shows. The 4 20 virtual live show takes place Saturday, April 19th. If you're listening to this and it's already passed, you go, oh, well that's no good for me. Yes it is. If it's within two weeks of that, you can still order it. You can get it. You can still watch it a hundred times, do whatever you want with it and get tickets for the Chicago Illinois Riviera show that is gonna be May 17th st. Louis is sold out the night before so don't let st. Louis beat you guys let's do you want to be second to st. Louis no and anything

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I mean, just a whole other stream to binge and it's crazy, so there's so much there. Then you get new ones every other week too. New crime in sports and new small town murder. Every other week you get that, so four a month and you get it all. So this week, which you're gonna get for Crime and Sports, we're gonna dip our toes back into the fraternity

hazing waters and hear some other shit. Last time Ben Franklin was involved in a man being burned to death alive. So, he soaked him in brandy like a cigar. It's hospitality, dude, this is a lot of shit going on. And then for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about the current ongoing, by the time this comes out publicly, we'll be over with,

because they're already doing jury instructions. But the Lori Vallow Daybell trial, of which I've seen every second, the fun part, she's representing herself, and it is wild. The fun part may be that we get closure in that episode about it. That'll be so much fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be all closure. And then she's got another trial starting, though, for the attempted murder of somebody else. The two of us might have some rage-filled rants. Oh, it's gonna be fun. Oh, I've seen, I have had an ass full of Lori. I've watched her for six hours a day, dude. We sit there, I'm working, every day I'm watching Lori.

I know her so well. I know it all, man. I can't wait. You've been watching it too. I know her enough to hate her. Oh my god, it's gonna be amazing. So check that out and that is Patreon.com slash crime in sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well too.

Jimmy will fuck your name all up. That said, thank you so much for joining us. If you wanna follow us on social media, you can do that very easily. Shut up and givememurder.com. Drop down menus, take you everywhere you wanna go that has to do with our shows. Thank you so much for hanging out with us

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