Small Town Murder - #593 - Jerry Springer Show Murder - Sarasota, Florida

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

This week, in Sarasota, Florida, a love triangle explodes into a savagely horrible murder, after the trio end up on The Jerry Springer Show. These complicated relationships resulted in many days in court, and much police interaction. But it all finally comes to a head, when their episode of Jerry Springer airs, causing one of the lovers to get so angry, that the only way to fix it, is cold blooded murder!!Along the way, we find out that south Florida is circus country, that World War II could have been avoided with different footwear, and that the way to solve your relationship problems, is NOT going on The Jerry Springer Show!!New episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. This week in Sarasota, Florida, a visit to the Jerry Springer show causes a love triangle to spin out of control, ending up in a brutal murder and fingers pointed in many directions. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh yay indeed Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo.

I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today. We have a crazy episode for you. I don't even think I need to say that anymore. I'll just stop saying that. If you're tuning in, it's crazy. Trust us, otherwise.

If you don't know, hang tight, you'll find out. You'll find out. It's wild stuff. We'll get to that, though. Before we do, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows right now. You need to do that. If you're still, if you're listening to this early

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right now and come see us out there that's shut up andurder.com also all the merch you could want on there. That said also listen to our other two shows Crime in Sports. We just finished up a 10 part Evil Can Evil series that you should listen to. You don't have to like sports at all you just have to like stories about crazy people. And also listen to your stupid opinions where we hear people's dumb opinions from all over the internet when they're reviews of products and places and everything like that. Then get yourself Patreon. Oh yeah.

Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get immediately upon subscription, hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before to binge on. then you get new ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder, and how much of that do they get, Jimmy? Every damn bit.

Every last second of it, that's right. This week what we're gonna do for crime and sports, we're gonna talk about some college coach sex scandals because they are horny, those college coaches, man. I'll tell you what, they're super horny and it doesn't matter if it's players or other people or faculty, they're into it. And then for Small Town Murder,

we're gonna delve into the last meals of some death row inmates. We did this before years ago. We did some of the famous ones. We're gonna dive into some of the less famous ones this week and I said dive and delve. I mixed them together. We're delving into it.

We're delving. Diving and delving. We. We're delving into it. We're delving. Diving and delving. We're diving and delving into that. So check that out. That's gonna be a lot of fun. That's always a great question. What would your last meal be? So we'll talk about that and more.

Patreon.com slash crime in sports. That said, disclaimer time. Yeah. This is a comedy show, everybody. We are comedians. We're gonna make jokes. But every second of the show, every detail is real, very meticulously researched, and yeah,

we don't make anything up for comedic effect or anything like that, and you might say, well, we're on a true crime and comedy mix. Easily, it's a stupid thing to say, you think you can get away with murder. It's a dumb idea. I think I can do, no, no, no, everything's gonna be fine, I'll get the insurance, and that's a stupid idea. It's just

stupid. And what we don't do is we never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why James? Because we're assholes. What? But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's real simple. It was a real easy way to do that. So if you think that you want to hear a crazy story, you're gonna hear one. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever, ever go together, well, maybe we're not for you. But maybe we are. I think maybe you might not be given it a chance.

Either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time, everybody. Let's all sit back. Here we go. Let's clear the lungs, arms to the sky, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

We are going down to Sarasota this week. Sarasota, Florida. That's right, it is south of Tampa down there, southwestern Florida. It's about an hour to Tampa to be exact, about three and a half hours to Miami if you go the other way, which doesn't seem like it should take that long.

Yeah, I was messing up with Pensacola, which I've heard is nice. I doubt it, but yeah. Isn't that in the panhandle? Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna leave it at that. It's up north of Tampa. Yeah, yeah.

It's about two hours and 45 minutes to Fort Pierce, Florida, our last episode, which was Murky murder motives. That's the name of it. That was the attorney that was found in that shed all burned with acid and that was a crazy goddamn story. That was wild. This is in Sarasota County.

Area code is 941 and they have several mottos and nicknames and things like that. One is May Sarasota prosper. That's a motto. May it, I don't know. Make it happen. We got hope around here. Make it happen, man. The next is where urban amenities meet small town living.

There you go. And then finally, circus city. Circus city. Circus city, that's right. And there's a reason for that. Circus, yeah. Circus City. Circus City. Circus City, that's right, and there's a reason for that. Circus, yeah. Circus. Now the origin of the name, little bit of history here, is disputed.

Most of these old town names, unless they were named in the last 100 years, they're all disputed. So some claim that it's based on De Soto's daughter, Sarah, the conquistadors of De Soto's daughter, Sarah, the conquistadors to De Soto, his daughter Sarah, claiming that, and others claim that it came from Sarah Dakota, meaning an area of land easily observed

in the language of the indigenous tribe that was there. Yeah, it's probably that. That seems, I don't even know, it seems like they probably would miss, Yeah. Miss, you know, what am I looking for here? Translate? Yeah, I guess.

That's the best way to put it. Yeah, mistranslation was gonna be. Understand. Yeah, so I don't know, who cares, either way. So around 1883, the Florida Mortgage and Investment Company of Edinburgh bought 60,000 acres for development in Sarasota, and Scottish people started coming because they were... Great.

It was up in Scotland, so they were selling these plots of land. Is it wet up here? You look, it's cloudy every day, cold. Check out what we got. And they would sell these people. So it's weird though, when you think of Sarasota or southern Florida, you think Scottish right away, right? Indeed, yeah. Which is funny because we know a guy with a Scottish accent

that if you ask him where he's from, he goes, Tampa. You're like, okay, sure. Very funny. That's very funny. So now from 1911 onward, a couple came here, Mabel and John Ringling. That name sound familiar. Circus City, Ringling, Ringling Brothers.

Oh, okay, Ringling is the last name, got it. They would spend their winters here and eventually purchased a large parcel of property for their permanent winter headquarters here. And they attracted several members of the Ringling family to Sarasota as a winter retreat. I assume brothers were involved in this. I imagine, yeah. And the Ringling family to Sarasota as a winter retreat. I assume brothers were involved in this. I imagine, yeah.

The Ringling brothers were very wealthy, but when they came to Sarasota, they hadn't started, they hadn't had circus wealth yet. Basically, the Ringling brothers' circuses were just like a bunch of, they did them once in a while here and there. They weren't consolidated under an entity of. It didn't necessarily have a schedule. Yeah, it wasn't Ringling brothers' circus, or Barnum and Bailey, or whatever't consolidated under an entity of. It didn't necessarily have a schedule.

Yeah, it wasn't Ringling Brothers, you know, circus or Barnum and Bailey or whatever the fuck it is now. So Charles Ringling, one of the brothers and his wife, Edith, built a big bay front winter retreat there and all that kind of thing. And then the guy died, took years to build, and then he died right after it finished. You imagine that?

Oh, I can finally enjoy it and you drop fucking dead. That's what's gonna happen with these shows. Yeah, I'm gonna be done with it. Finally enjoy my fucking life and then I'm gonna drop goddamn dead as soon as I don't have to stay up till 6 a.m. Yep. Soon as I fucking don't have to stay up every day

till 6 a.m. doing work, I'm gonna drop right dead. I know, done. Done it. doing work. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna drop right then. I know, done. Done it. It's the George Costanza thing of, I knew God could never make me a success. He'd kill me first before he made me a success. I had a friend that retired, James,

and two weeks later he was dead. Yeah, that's what I mean. He had so many plans. So many plans. September of 2022, Hurricane Ian made landfall here. And this, people in Tampa, because we were there right before that, and they were real cocky.

2002? 2022. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. People were real cocky about how hurricanes never hit this coast and, ah, get the fuck outta here. I don't care what the orders are. Don't worry about it. It's never happened.

They were, I mean, downright arrogant and then it came right through. It was bad, yeah. So this was a bad one too. It was winds exceeding 85 miles an hour within Sarasota County, 200 mile an hour wind field. It was a lot. 10 fatalities.

It made landfall here in Fort Myers, right? I don't know about Fort Myers. I think it was the two of these places. I wasn't studying Fort Myers for this one, but that sounds right, though. The county suffered 10 fatalities due to the storm, making it the second highest county for casualties behind Lee County, which is just tons of trailers,

so that would make a lot of sense if you ever watch it on patrol. Lee County is, that's when they asked a guy Where's your truck and he pointed and went yonder? That's I swear to God he said that Famous people in this town. There's a bunch The ringlings obviously and another circus act Nick will enda of the we heard about the him a lot in the evil Knievel episode of the Willenda Brothers, who did all the high wire shit there.

We had him. Peewee Herman is from here, Paul Rubens. What? Grew up in Sarasota, and it was where he was arrested for whacking off in a theater. Yeah, that's right. Which is the dumbest thing ever. Jerry Springer.

He got arrested in Florida for that? Yeah, at his hometown. Jesus. His hometown. Jerry Springer had a big giant house Florida for that. Yeah, at his hometown. Jesus. Hometown. Jerry Springer had a big giant house here during his whole height of everything and lived here for a long time. And finally, if you were a fan of wrestling at all,

obviously Randy Macho Man Savage, who was actually from Illinois, I think, but you know. Sarasota, Florida was where they announced him from. So reviews of this town, because I've never been to Sarasota. It might be great Let's find out Five stars here we go Sarasota has it all Nice every store or restaurant you could imagine. Well, that's everything

Stores and restaurants we have lots of fun things to do beautiful parks amazing beaches and so many walking paths The lead legacy trail connects Sarasota all the way to Venice That's a long way Venice got to be about seven thousand miles, right? Or three thousand the other direction is a Venice, Florida Apparently too and is great for biking other than that the traffic because everyone loves Sarasota I don't have many complaints for the area. I will say the public schools are awful, but that seems to be a theme in Florida.

Yeah, it does. Yeah, they pride themselves on that. It's on the flag. Two stars here. This is an angry person. Overpopulated by everyone moving here, and then in parentheses, mostly from the Northeast. Okay.

I bet your house is worth twice as much as it was before. You like that, probably. Traffic crashes nonstop, schools getting overcrowded, crime is growing crazily, homeless all over. Everywhere you look, a new, unaffordable neighborhood or apartment building is being erected, but the infrastructure is not keeping up. As others have said, there's stuff to do and cool places to eat, but it's overwhelming to try to even go to them, especially on the weekends. Forget about the beaches. Get there by 8 or you're not getting a parking space in the actual beach parking lot.

Gee, people would want to go to Sand near an ocean. Weird. I can't imagine. I've lived here my whole life, many decades, and I take my beach vacations elsewhere. It's so stressful living here. It used to be nice Not now my only hope is to sell my house to some fool from New York willing to pay too much and make me rich So I can live somewhere nice All right, the person that heard some media somewhere and just bought every bit of it. Yeah Yeah One star if you're thinking about moving to Florida don't I'm from Boston And I've seen the strangest things on earth here rude people everyone has two jobs

Crazy drivers beyond expensive poor pay high rent constant building of more chain restaurants weird people Stay up north this place is bizarre think Twilight Zone weird So that nobody that he knows from Boston's gonna buy that other person's house I don't think. People in this town, 53,786. Big, yeah, it's growing. A big town but not a city, not a giant city or anything like that, small, small city.

It is a lot more women than men here, almost 53 and a half percent women. I don't know how that happened but that's a lot more women than men here. Almost, it's like 53 and a half percent women. I don't know how that happened, but that's a lot of, way out of whack with the normals here. Median age here is 49, which is about 12 years older than the national average. And you know, it's Florida, what do you want? A lot of old people come here.

So, and this area, the Tampa area also has a lot of retirement homes and retirement villages, the Tampa area also has a lot of retirement homes and retirement villages, but my grandmother had a place down there. That's where, so it makes sense to me. Family here, about 41% are married, which is below the national average. 21% have children, but are single,

and that's like double the national average. Race in this town, 64.8% white, 13.7% black, 1.4% Asian, 18.3% Hispanic. So it's almost like if you took the breakdowns nationally, that's exactly kind of within a couple percentage points what they are. That's interesting. Religion in this town, 44% religious

and it is going to be Catholics taking the, oh, people from the Northeast and people from whatever, Hispanic people, and so you get that. You're gonna get a lot of Catholics here. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the Bay, the Gulf Coast region, I don't know. Very weird here. Sarasota has an unemployment rate a little bit below the national average but the median

household income is also below the national average at sixty two thousand six hundred fifteen dollars which the national average is about sixty nine thousand dollars so there's that cost of living regular is a hundred that's average across the country here. It's 105 Doesn't seem that bad. The housing is actually the high thing people used to move to Florida because it was cheap That was the reason people moved there. Yeah, that's cheap and it's sunny. Great. I'm moving there No more shoveling, but the median home cost here is 454 thousand two hundred dollars golly. That's not cheap at all. That's not cheap at all.

So if you said, damn it, I don't care, I'm going to the crowded beach and the strip mall restaurant, I'm coming to Sarasota. We have for you the Sarasota, Florida real estate report. Average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,580, which is a couple hundred over the national average. That's high.

Here's a two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,480 square foot house. Not bad at all from the outside. Kind of looks like the Golden Girls house a little bit. Do you remember that from the opening credits? That's kind of what it looks like a little bit. Not bad. I mean, the furniture inside is a little bit. Yeah. Do you remember that from the opening credits? That's kind of what it looks like a little bit. Um, not bad. I mean, the furniture inside's a little bit weird. It's you can tell that it's not, you could tell someone moved here from somewhere else. It looks like they took their Massachusetts furniture and put it in a house in Florida. Running a beach. Not bad. 199,000 bucks for that though. Okay. Not too bad. Need somewhere.

For almost 1,500 square feet. Here's a three bedroom, two bath, 1,802 square feet. It's a nice house. It's not a huge house, but it's a nice house. Looks very Florida, the Spanish tile roof. Inside the big like 14 inch by 14 inch tiles, you know what I mean, that kind of thing. Very Florida looking altogether.

625,000 bucks. And there's no land too. This isn't like two acres or anything like that. It is just expensive. Highway robbery. Wow, you wanna talk about highway robbery. Six bedroom, nine bath, T-ball for all your bee holes, each and every bee hole here.

Even if you got two. Even if you got two B holes coming out, 8,929 square feet. That's enormous. That is ridiculous. That's four houses. That's crazy. Four good size houses. That is 1.82 acres right on the fucking beach. I mean, yeah, your yard, your yard, there's grass, and then it runs into sand and then there's the fucking crashing waves. It's ridiculous very silly It's I mean, it's really nice. It could be like a hotel or something It looks like when you see like pictures of the ditty parties. This is where it was

That's the this is one of like a house that like I did he for last happen. Like those glass panels on the patios that are upstairs. Yeah, it's the floor slippery with lube everywhere afterwards. One of those type of things. $24,700,000. Okay. Yeah. Who the fuck owns that? That is crazy.

Come on, Jesus Christ. It's for sale now, I don't know. Apparently Pitbull is looking to make a change. I'm not sure. He's trying to get closer to Miami? I don't know if that is. Or looking to make a change, I'm not sure. He's trying to get closer to Miami? I don't know if that is, or further away. Maybe, things to do here. Okay, we got some circus stuff first of all.

The Circus Arts Conservatory. What is that? It's a circus college. Yeah? Yeah, does it wanna be a dipshit clown? You can do this. I wonder if this is the one that Steve-O to because he went to he went to clown college in Florida Oh my god. Well, that's probably where a lot of them are

I would think yeah, it says providing some of the most anticipated events in our area The circus arts conservatory leads the way in cultivating and enriching circus legacy on enriching circus legacy Florida's Gulf Coast enjoy everything from professional world-class circus arts productions to sailor circus Academy productions of the greatest little show on earth Yeah, oh they have a circus arts class which are offered throughout the week for all experience levels Our one-of-a-kind summer camps teach children circus arts disciplines and then showcase their new skills with a costume performance. Oh, look at that.

Remember when kids would like run away to join the circus? Who's encouraging their child to do circus arts? Like who's bringing your kid there? That's wild. Grow up. That's fucking weird. It's a nonprofit too. Educational performing arts organization.

Alright. How about the circus museum? Yeah. It says run away to the circus. Don't do that. Immerse yourself in circus history. Be wowed by incredible human and animal feats. Study the amazing logistics of circus management. Or try your hand at walking the wire. The circus museums with no net vast and varied collections are on a view on view throughout two different buildings. Jesus Christ. They have two built. This is too much circuit, man. Circus. I mean, Jesus Christ.

Be sure to visit the newest exhibit, the greatest show on earth gallery. Holy shit. Well, let's get away from that and go to something completely different. The Sarasota reggae and food festival. There we go. That sounds much better. There's going to be weed smoke in the air. This is much better for me rather than clowns and pictures of clowns. So it says if relaxing, having fun, enjoying good food and listening to great live music over the weekend sounds like your perfect plan. Maybe.

Then join us at the Sarasota Reggae and Food Festival. They said the fun and relaxation begins Friday evening from 4 to 10 p.m. Sounds great. Free admission. Yeah. Outdoor event, pet friendly. This is fantastic. You choose foods from a diverse menu of barbecue

and meat dishes as well as all sorts of other shit. There's booze. That's great. Entertainment schedule. This is last year's, because they don't have this year's yet. Johnny Long. Long, I'm waiting for more there.

Nothing else, yeah. Nothing else. Doug Deming and the Jewel Tones. Nope. Sean Chambers. the Jewel Tones. Nope. Sean Chambers. Never. Gary Memphis Rub. Not a word.

Is that referring to BBQ or his cock? Which one? I gave it the old Memphis Rub right in her face. You know what I mean? I got it in her eye though. It felt bad. Joey Gilmore. Yeah.

Memphis Lightning. Okay. Frank Bang. Put him together with Gary Memphis Rub and you got some. Yeah. You got some. You got some. You got some. You got some. You got some. You got some. You got some. Joey Gilmore, Memphis Lightning, Frank Bang,

put him together with Gary Memphis Rubbin, you got something, the old banging rub. The Lee boys, gotta have them, them Lee boys coming on in. Bridget Kelly Band, JP Sores and the Red Hots, which sounds like a familiar. S-O-A-R-S? S-O-A-R-S. S-O-A-R-S. All right.

Yeah. Put him with Gary Memphis, Rob and Frank Vang. JP Soares. Where's Johnny Long, Don? Where is he at? Oh, he's just Johnny Long now. He left the dong off now. I'm sorry, I didn't know.

Last time I performed with him, he was still dong. I don't know. And Mike Hund's All Stars. H-U-N-D-S, Hund. Mike Hund's All Stars. Okay, there we go. Crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here. Property crime is almost twice the national average. It is a lot. God damn!

It is high, that is not good, my friends. That's bad. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The amount rush more of crime. Also, this is slightly above average, but not out of control like the property crime numbers. That's still up there though. So anyway, that said, let's talk about some murder.

Let's do this here. Okay. Let's head back. Let's set the scene here and head back to July 24th, 2000. Yeah, 25 years. So trying to think internet. Yes, not high speed. Uh, and not on and not on your phone. You have a phone, but it's only for calling people and you're wearing stupid clothes. Very stupid clothes. Uh,'re also, the phone is for calling people, not for texting.

2000 is like pre even cameras on your phone. This is just, it's a phone, you call people. And if there was, it was pixely. Yeah, it was like, people started getting them a lot like 2002-ish, that kind of thing. That was like really when they blew up. But I mean, I'm sure that one existed, but I mean, yeah, you couldn't see shit on it.

Those old camera phones were terrible. The pictures are awful. Awful, awful. So on this day, police are called, it's about 7.30 p.m., and police are called to 2827 Grand Cayman Street in Sarasota. And they are called by two different neighbors,

saying two different things, too. Saying two different things too. Oh. The main takeaway is you guys need to get your asses over to this house. Come here. Why is disputed? Get over there. Hurry.

One neighbor reports hearing a man and a woman fighting and a woman yelling don't do this and all this sort of thing. And then another report from a neighbor, they report to the police that two women are fighting. And that there's some sort of domestic thing going on in this house and they need to get over there. So the police come in, when they try to get in,

because they've heard there's violence inside, they can go in basically here. So. Troubable cause, is that what that is? Yeah, that there's something inside, they can go in basically here. So- Probable cause, is that what that is? Yeah, that there's something bad happening in here. Plus somebody said they looked in the window and saw blood and all this stuff.

So they're going in the house. Now they try to get in the door, it's barricaded. The door is barricaded, which is a bad sign right away. From the inside. From the inside, yeah. Well barricading it from the outside would be much less We're not letting anybody in yeah You could just move this stuff and open the door from the outside. I wouldn't be that'd be pretty worthless

That's the luck fuckers yeah take that All right, well you you get the other end of this desk. I'll get it okay move that out of the way I'll push this fridge all right then should we go in now okay good get it okay move that out of the way I'll push this fridge all right then should we go in now okay good so they bust in open they bust in through the barricades they have to really kick the you know push through it and everything and they find the only person home is a woman and she's definitely not in any state to complain or give a statement she is on the floor in a pool of blood, absolutely dead and beaten so severely about the face

that she's like an unrecognizable person. Like no one could look at her and go, oh I know who that is, it's impossible. She's been just absolutely mangled and mauled and it's horrifying what's happened to this woman. I mean several cops said it's the worst thing they've ever seen. Several of the responding cops said it's the worst crime scene I've ever been to, most horrifying gave me nightmares type of shit. Not good. Okay now let's, so now we

got that. Now that's going on they're obviously trying to figure out how the hell that happened. Now let's set the table with some people here. Okay. Let's go back in time away from that. That's in 2000, January 24th. We'll go back in time and meet some people. Let's meet Nancy Campbell. Nancy Campbell is born in 1948.

And it's you should see her pictures too. Like some of her like high school pictures she's just that total mid-60s like swoopy thing at the bottom of her hair you know what I mean yeah that like whatever the hell not a beehive but that like no it's like I don't know it's fucking it's Jackie Oh yeah yeah yeah kind of bang walls and a little swoopy doop on the end there. So now she grows up, she gets married young. Yeah. And has two children, has two young boys. And, uh, you know, this is a woman who got married in the mid sixties. Yeah.

Just doing what you're supposed to do back then, you know, graduate school, get married, have kids, have a nice life in a family. And it's the sitcom, the 50s sitcom here. But the problem is when the children are very young, they have their kids pretty much right away, when the children are very young, Nancy's husband dies. Oh no. Yeah, and he's young, they're both young.

I mean, they're in their 20s when he dies. This is a horrible tragedy, obviously. So now Nancy is left with two sons and obviously financially it's not great if you're a single mom in the mid 60s. Your prospects aren't wonderful for high paying employment and that sort of thing. Now she has a son named Jeffrey and a son named Gary. Now this is in Michigan by the way they're living. They're living in Michigan. Until May 30th purchase four new Michelin passenger or light truck tires and receive

up to $70 by prepaid MasterCard. Conditions apply. Details at michelin.ca. Find a Michelin TreadXperts dealer near you at treadxperts.ca slash locations. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him. We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect... He has been identified as Luigi Nicolass Mangione. ...became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history was targeted premeditated and it's a so terror. I'm Jesse Weber host of Luigi produced by

law and crime and twist this is more than a true crime investigation we explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue. I mean maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts. And Jeffrey said quote that Nancy was just a really good mother

Saying my dad died when I was just a toddler. So she raised me and my brother by herself She's a strong independent and just a great person and that's kind of everybody's take on Nancy She's a very nice lady. And when you look at her She's like it just looks like a nice lady She's like good kind of short and just looks like, has a face that looks like, you know, she'd be like, she'd be friendly if she was checking you out at the supermarket or something. Looks like a nice lady.

So, she doesn't like attention at all. She's kind of quiet, keeps to herself, that sort of thing too. In fact, they said that she was a very reserved person, didn't even like having her picture taken. Said she would like hide her face, she didn't wanna have her picture taken, she's too shy basically.

Didn't really date at all while the kids were growing up either. Really? Husband died and she just, that's it, I'm mom now, and didn't really date at all until the kids are grown up and out of the house. Let him leave and then I'll worry about me. She has like no interest in men after that.

So it's pretty interesting that she seemed content to be alone and to raise her kids and just be fine. Now 1996 comes around, let's fast forward to there. The kids are grown up now. She's just kind of a lonely lady, sitting in her house, you know, she's what, in her 40s here, she's 48 years old. She's lonely, I don't blame her,

she doesn't wanna, if she's only 48, but she feels like she's living like she's 65 and she's just gonna be lonely for the next, she could live 40 more years for Christ's sake, she's gonna just sit there and be lonely and miserable for 40 years, so she So she's probably gonna be trimmed down tremendously by being miserable, but. Yeah, not great.

Probably right around 30 years if you're. Yeah, yeah, if you're that depressed. But if you start dating and you're happy, maybe 50 years, who knows? Sometimes if you're miserable enough, you persist though. That's the thing. The misery keeps you alive. Like I always had my one grandmother just was kept alive by anger and like piss and vinegar

and anger. Whenever she would be mean and angry, I'd be like, and she's fine. Okay, that's good. That was a good sign that like things are okay. Oh good, she's making horrible racist comments. That means that she's feeling okay. That's good.

She's too nice. That means she's thinking about death and she's gonna, none of that shit. So 1996, Nancy's friends turn her on to AOL chat rooms. Here we go. Here we go. And this is a lonely lady sitting there discovering a whole new world.

And in the 90s, these chat rooms, I mean now it's apps and shit like that, but these chat rooms in the 90s were People met like crazy. I was every fucking job. They were everything so she meets a specific man on the internet Yeah, so and then she's made a good life herself and you know all that kind of thing She was never interested in dating or remarrying before this but now she's on the internet. She's fucking around in aol chat rooms Yeah, and she connects with a man He is a German man or remarrying before this, but now she's on the internet. She's fucking around in AOL chat rooms, and she connects with a man.

He is a German man. Not just from Germany, living in Germany. Born and raised. Oh, he's in Germany. And in Germany, yeah. Absolutely German as shit. He's out for the internet. Yeah, how else would you meet this guy?

His name is Ralph Pennitz. Ralph is R-A-L-F. Ralf right the Germans none of this ph shit here right for the F Ralph pannets P a ni tz and He's about 12 years younger than her but man they get along They're getting along. He is a German painting contractor So that's what he does. He's a painter, house painter.

He also found his way. Somebody turned him on to an AOL chat room. His screen name was Plainwell. P-L-A-I-N-W-E-L-L, Plainwell. I don't know if that's like a town over there, whatever, who knows. Don't look at me. Now Nancy goes by Cupcakes99.

Plural? Cupcakes. Yeah, I'm not. So she calls her boobs, I think. Yeah, perfect. These are my cupcakes right here. What are those cheeks? Yeah, who knows, but Cupcakes99 is her name.

Somebody already had cupcakes, and she was like Cupcakes9. Somebody already had cupcake? Shit. Cupcake 99. God damn it, I had more than one. Cupcake 99. Hey, all right, I got it.

So yeah, they strike up a conversation and they start then breaking out of the chat rooms to communicate solo. You know what I mean? They start speaking regularly for about the next year. This is her German internet boyfriend. Now, imagine being her sons, who are like 30 at this point, late 20s or whatever, they know about the internet, I assume, probably.

You gotta assume, yeah. You come over to your mom's house and she's like, I met a German man on the internet. You'd be like, I'm taking this computer out of your fucking house right now. You are not no No, it's back up until about Nowadays you ask people how'd you meet and they go online and you know, you go. Okay, you don't think twice

They might have said at work or here there It's the same thing if you said in even in the year 2000 never mind 97 if you said in the year 2000 Oh, we met on the internet, people would go, oh my god, really? Yeah, right. I had friends of mine that were a couple, and this was like 2003, and they met on the internet, but didn't tell anybody, like he pulled me aside one day

and was like, I gotta tell you something, and I was like, what? He goes, yeah, he said we didn't really meet at a bar and I was like all right he goes we met on online I was like okay and he goes I just don't want anybody to know because people make fun of me I'm giving he had a hard Boston accent so because I don't want anybody to know I was his friend yeah he needed to tell somebody everybody I was like okay goes on people are real weird about it you know what I mean I told I told my brother and he was like, okay, he goes, ah, people are real weird about it. You know what I mean?

I told my brother and he was like, nah, nah, you shouldn't do that. And I guess she's a nice girl though, and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, they ended up absolutely like calling the cops on each other all the time. And they were a fucking mess, these two. But either way, back then it was like,

they wouldn't even tell people they met on the internet. They made up a backstory. So that's how the stigma of that was. And in 97, it was like they wouldn't even tell people they met on the internet. They made up a backstory. So that's how the stigma of that was. And in 97 it was even more. It was like anyone you meet on the internet will murder you immediately. You'll meet them, they'll stick a knife right in your forehead and walk away.

And spray paint AOL on your chest and then walk away. So they are dating, I guess you could call it online dating, for about a year. And this guy Ralph Jurgen, J-U-R-G-E-N, Ralph Jurgen Panitz, he's 12 years younger than her like we said. Now he was married right up until the time that he and Nancy started talking. He just, he was married for 16 years but just divorced right before this so like he got a I don't know if he got a divorce because he was meeting women on online chat room or if he was meeting women because he got

divorced I'm not sure which one it is but did AOL ruin this divorce or save his loneliness? It doesn't really matter at this point. So anyway, after a year in 1997, he flies over to the US to be with Nancy and they get married. Oh, married. I mean, yeah, that's so fast. Yeah. A year of talking on the internet. He's on a plane.

He lands. They're pretty much married right away. Oh boy. Which is pretty fucking wild, honestly. Quick. That's trusting on both of these people's parts. I mean, if you're him, you're going to a strange goddamn country.

Strange country to be with a strange person, what if she doesn't, something happens, now you're in a strange country by yourself, and what do you do? And for her, she's importing a man. This is crazy for, you know, back in the day. So right away, not a great marriage. This is, apparently there's a lot of fire between them,

both romantically and, you know, argumentatively. Both, yeah. Yeah. There are reports. Fire makes for great sex and argument, so. That's the problem. Sometimes the argument leads to the sex, so sometimes it's just fucking amazing

if you can tolerate that shit. Sometimes the argument's foreplay. Yeah. Like that's a, maybe that might pump some people up. Yeah. But. Just for makeup sex. Right away there's reports of domestic abuse.

Right away. Oh, that's not good. Like right away. One of the, her son said it wasn't long after their wedding that there was a domestic issue. Ralph had thrown her on the floor and she had hit her head. Okay. After that, she left and filed for divorce.

Yeah, which is, she's got her shit together, this lady, and she's been on her own for this long. She doesn't need to get knocked around now by some German asshole. So, you know, court records indicate that they, through this, even after they separated, they would go back and forth a lot. Like, we're talking restraining orders

and then have the restraining order lifted, and then another one three days later, and then have it lifted a week later. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a real lot. Nancy often expressed what they called devoted love for her husband and asked him to get back together with her. They would. He would act like an asshole. She would leave. Then he would beg her back and she would come back and it was just back and forth with this relationship. Everybody knows people who've been in that relationship. I hope for your own good that it's not you if you're listening.

You're in that cycle for sure. If you're in it because this is a mess. So it's never going to get better. That's never going to be like, oh, we got that behind us. Thank God that's done. Nope, that's not going to happen. So they filed several requests for domestic violence injunctions against each other, which resulted in temporary orders that they didn't have any contact with each other, and then they

would break their own orders, and of course, one of those. Ralph included in one of his petitions copies of email conversations in which Nancy asked him to return to her. One in one, he said, she said, you want me back? I want you, I will never stop loving you. I know you know this. And he wrote back, need to think about it. Which is pretty fucking short, I think.

Vague, yeah. It's a little terse, I think, for, you know. Poured my heart out to you. Let me sleep on it. Yeah. Hold on. Let me kick that around for a couple. Yeah.

Yeah. So she wrote back, we need counseling though, but we can do it. But no matter, but no other women from now on. Okay. Love you. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, she, she's saying we need counseling, which is the right move, but we can do a lot.

A lot. Yeah. And that's, that's his whole thing is he cannot keep his German dick in his pants. He can't keep a sausage out of the crowd. And that's a problem because brought needs to be in the crowd right now. So, um, the email sometimes would would be angry emails back and forth, which she would accuse him of adultery and stealing from her money and shit like that too.

And then he would accuse her of stalking him. Why are you stalking me? Basically emailing him is stalking him to him, by the way. I don't know if it's a language barrier or he doesn't understand what stalking is. but an email from your wife isn't really stalking at that point. Yeah, that's, answer your phone then, motherfucker. Seems overly formal, if anything,

you know what I'm saying, an email from your wife. Sarah rarely sends me an email about a household matter. It just doesn't really work like that. So court records indicate that he was arrested three times on battery charges over this time period. We'll talk about a couple of these here. July of 1998, he's really a summer batterer, as we'll find out.

He's really, he's hot in the summer. Maybe it's- Takes the winter off? Maybe he's from Germany, he's not used to the heat down there. It's hot down there in the summer, I don't know what it is, but he... That humidity will piss anybody off. It really fries his fucking German circuits, man.

He can't take it. He loses his fucking mind, because either that or he's just a complete asshole. One of the two, which I think I'm opting for B, he was arrested on a domestic battery charge after Nancy accused him of throwing her on the floor and threatening to kill her. Can't do that. Either of those things you can't do. The charges will later be dropped by prosecutors,

and that is because Nancy doesn't wanna cooperate. Very hard to get any kind of court case going if the victim won't cooperate. It's difficult. So there's a series of injunctions here that start in July of 1998. On July 25th, Nancy files an injunction against Ralph to keep him away from her. Oh boy. So August of 1998, the next month, Ralph is with a different woman. Oh. Oh yeah, yeah, no, they're, he gets around.

He is, he is like a German balloon in the wind, just floating. That horrific accent is just bringing them all in. Oh, it's a bad one too, like even nowadays, or even like 20 years later, he still like leaves out words. Oh, it's a bad one too. Like even nowadays, like, or even like 20 years later, he still like leaves out words and stuff. It's funny. So this is August, 1998.

He's with a different woman. And this is another girlfriend who accuses him of hitting her in the lip, punched her in the mouth, she said. Oh boy, yeah. Jesus Christ. He was arrested on a domestic battery charge. Which prosecutors later did what with, Jimmy?

What'd they do? They dropped it. Of course they did. Yeah, this is a guy who just hits women and then there's no consequences for it whatsoever. It's wild. So February of 1999, Ralph and Nancy divorce. Here we go.

Official divorce going on. Done on done. Yeah done for now During that same month Ralph meets a new woman online All right, there's a new online girlfriend a woman named Eleanor and we'll talk about her in a little while more on her coming up Okay, so in the background of everything that's gonna happen now He is he has another relationship, like an online thing going on with Eleanor. So just in the background, picture the clicking of keyboard keys.

Got it. Of like a Dell computer from 1999. Yeah. A compact Presario from 1999. Compact. With a Pentium II processor in it. Yeah. It's got a fucking tower.

I worked in this shipping place that had, it was like a big computer place and it had like a shipping receiving department and I worked in there and I remember having to individually take out all these Pentium II processors out of these packages and like put them in other things and I just remember going, wow, these are awesome. This is like some technology here. This shit is so impressive.

Oh man. It's inside. Holy fuck, you couldn't run a fucking non-smartphone with one of those things now. So February of 1999, that happened. So all in the background, that's going on. July 4th, 1999, that happened. So all in the background that's going on. July 4th, 1999, 4th of July. An American holiday, Ralph gets very American here

by getting arrested again. That's pretty American, right Ralph? Is that just a patriotic thing when you get arrested on the 4th of July? So he went to visit Nancy at her home in the 7700 block of 40th Court East. And her, apparently she, he was invited. Because they're going back and forth all the time.

So apparently she invited him over, he didn't just kick in the door or anything like that. And she has a roommate named John Wilber at the time. Nothing romantic at all, just someone to help share the bills. Apparently Ralph got in an argument with John Wilber, a Florida man and a German guy arguing is right away hilarious to me. I'm sorry, that's just funny. That's just entertainment right there. Uh, and Ralph

escalates this beef by smashing Wilbur in the head with a motorcycle helmet. Yeah. That's American. That's, that's, that's pretty fucking American. Yeah. To get together on the 4th of July, have some beers and hit your, your estranged wife's male roommate in the head with a motorcycle helmet. Oh, say can you see. That is the most American thing that's ever happened right there. So, by the way, he hit him as Wilbur was on the phone

with 911, so he went to call 911 to call, I'm calling the cops on you, and he said, no you're not not bashed. Smashed him in the head with a fucking motorcycle helmet. So he's, yeah, now we both need something. So now, now we're getting both ambulance and police are coming to the scene now. Yeah. You know what? Just send everything you got. Who knows what could happen by the time you get here. You never know.

So he's initially arrested on a charge of aggravated battery because he used a weapon. And he's always riding his motorcycle around too. He's got a motorcycle he's riding around. Hell yeah. It looks like a Honda or something though. It looks like a, it's nothing you would like or nothing like my dad or my brother would like.

It's one of those. Fucking James Dean. Yeah, James, I am James Dean. I will crash one day, but for now, I will have all the pussy. I will get all the women. Charges though, end up, charges though, end up being downgraded to battery by the prosecutors. Not sure why.

He would later plead no contest to the charge and was sentenced to 60 days probation. I've never heard of probation in that small of a serving, have you? 60 days? What is that? What is that? A hundred? Even when you get a DUII you get longer probation than that. 60 days?

That's, what is that? $156 in fines and 25 hours of community service. That's what he got for smashing a guy in the head with a motorcycle helmet to try to prevent him from calling 911, which seems like a much bigger crime than what he got convicted of. He's also ordered to take anger management classes and to pay restitution for Wilbur for any medical bills he might have incurred from this whole thing here. That next month, that's the 4th of July, so that's a memorable holiday for Nance there. Jesus Christ. The next month in August, on August the 14th,

he is again arrested for a domestic battery offense. Man, that's not, from what I understand, I don't think that's involving Nancy. I think that's somebody else. So Ralph is a loose German cannon, man. He is, wow, he's a problem at this point. He's fun, yeah. Not if you're his wife or his girlfriend. German canon man, he is, wow, he's a problem at this point. He's fun, yeah.

He's, not if you're his wife or his girlfriend or anyone around these women for that matter, he's not very fun, he's a fucking mess. So enter Eleanor, remember Eleanor, the woman he was talking online with since February? Well, Eleanor Isaac is her name and she is born in 1958 here. And, um, yeah, uh,

she is also coming off a failed marriage much like Ralph here and her family does not like Ralph when they get together. I mean, no, they don't like him at all. They again think that his drinking is a problem. He loves to drink. Not just in a casual European way either. He's a drunk. Europeans drink but they're not drunks, generally. That's a different. They drink heavy though.

They drink but it's weird. They know how to do it because they've been doing it. They give kids booze there, so the kids never binge drink. If you look at like England, where the age is 18, the kids do not binge drink. It just doesn't happen over there.

They don't get deaths from alcohol poisoning and all that shit like we get in all these colleges. They're used to it. They just drink all the time. This is not a big deal. They've had a glass of wine with dinner. They're not overwhelmed. Same thing, I saw a map the other day

that had the alcohol-related deaths They've had a glass of wine with dinner. They're not overwhelmed. Same thing, I saw a map the other day that had the alcohol-related deaths in all of the European countries. Russia is like by far and ahead above everybody because it's miserable there and all you do is drink. But places that you would associate with heavy drinking, Germany, France, Italy, the lowest rates in the entire fucking European continent.

Wow. Because they're just used to it. Ireland? No, not Ireland. That's a different thing. That's different up there. That's a religion. It's different up there.

Yeah, that's to excess. But otherwise, it's different. It's weird. So they know how to drink, except for this guy doesn't hold his booze well. So despite her family's concerns, they also think that he might be using her for a green card to be able to keep staying here But she said nope not like that at all. She said we seemed to have a lot in common We liked the same authors and movies

We just watched dust over and over it's just Das Boot over and over again. So, you know, he doesn't like anything else. So yeah, I don't know if that's gonna, I mean, that's nice at first. You gotta have more than that. That's a first date, then what? Yeah, that's right. We'll have more on it too.

It's so fucking funny because like Eleanor's mother said, he's too good looking. I don't like him. In other words, he's too handsome for you, is what she's saying. This guy's obviously using you, you're hideous. Which is a tough thing to hear from your mother, but that's the type of-

That's the worst thing to hear from her. Yeah, it's tough, but that's also the type of shit. I don't know if her parents are foreign at all or anything, but that sounds like something my Italian grandma would say like What do you think that person wants with you? That's what they say I'm sure it's fun, but don't count on that last She'd go my you fat. Why would he want you? That's what she's I've heard her say that to my relatives before

It's like wow you are brutal so February of 2000, Nancy asks the court that her injunction against Ralph be dissolved. So now she wants to be able to go near him again. She's wrote in her filing, I have no reason to fear Ralph Panitz. So, okay, everything's great. So things seem wonderful February of

2000 Christ he might be getting back together with Nancy here soon yeah yeah then the next month March 17th 2000 Ralph Marys Eleanor okay what this is Wow has everybody been keeping their scorecards so far yeah I mean honestly dude you could make a huge chart with this shit and it would... This is a lot dude. So March 17th, 2000 that is. He claimed by the way that in one of the court things with his ex-wife with Nancy that Nancy was a Jekyll and Hyde who stalked him and his new wife.

So he claims that they got married and then all of a sudden Nancy begins stalking them. That's what he said. Now Eleanor thought that Nancy was just Ralph's ex-wife. Didn't really realize the extent of what's been going on and that they've been going getting back together and on and off. Ralph basically tells Eleanor that Nancy is constant. She's always here, she's stalking me relentlessly, she's a never-ending presence in my life and she won't go away and all this type of shit.

So according to Ralph, she just wouldn't leave them alone and she would follow the couple everywhere, interfering with their new life. In fact that he told Eleanor That we need to confront her. Well, this is crazy We can't just run away from this lady and have her stalking us is what he was saying So, you know, that's that's one thing by the way, I have to give you Comments that Eleanor made about her marriage to Ralph She said this is the ceremony,

it was absolutely beautiful. It was the only wedding I've had that I cried at. How many? The only one? The only wedding I've had that I cried at. Which sounds like she's had at least four, right? That has to be. Yeah. Yeah, if you were married. You mean it's, right? That has to be. Yeah.

Yeah. If you were married. You mean it's a surprise that there's a cry? Yeah. Well, if you were married once before, you'd say, I didn't, the other time I got married, I didn't cry. She said the only wedding. Two is not that big of a deal.

The only wedding I've had that I cried at. Which sounds like a cop saying, this is the worst crime scene I've ever been to. You know he's been to a few. You know what I mean? It's the worst accident I've ever seen. A guy first day on the job wouldn't say that no at all so Ellie Eleanor's sister said when I first met Ralph I really wasn't impressed. He's a drinker and

her mother Told the sister that she was concerned that Ralph was violent and an alcoholic and said quote he's gonna kill her one day oh that's what Eleanor's mom said and he's too handsome listen you ugly bitch no when a guy is using using you for murder know it wow yeah so her mother said quote I don't trust him. He's too good-looking He just wants you for the green card. That was her quote now Ralph said telling and Eleanor sitting here What do we do? We have to confront her we have to get this Nancy to stop stalking us. How can we do that?

There's only one way to do it. There's only one way cops cops we do that. There's only one way to do it. There's only one way. Cops. Cops. Oh, well, that's one way. A friend and a guy could find a media, a mediator, somebody like that. A move, a not confront her. Maybe call her up, say, Hey, let's meet it. You know, let's meet me at Chili's and we'll all sit in the booth and have some fucking, some a case. Oh, dip and talk about this and clear the air. Bottomless nachos. That's all you know it's whenever those little egg rolls we'll get it all man. It does well we'll have we'll go fall out on apps. It's a special occasion. Let's go. Let's do it saucy nugs.

But instead they decide the best venue for this talk would be the Jerry Springer show. for this talk would be the Jerry Springer Show. Her telly is a nice house down here. Holy balls, yeah. Let's go on the Jerry now. Oh boy. There's serious life of choice. Serious shit going on. Yeah, we'll have Jerry Springer mediate this shit.

We'll have Jerry handle it. And these people are not your typical kind of Springer trash is the thing too, because she's a nice lady and they're just not the typical here. They're older too is the other thing. It's a lot of younger people. Nancy's like 48 years old at this point.

And there's not really a scandal here except for an extra person involved, but it's like. We're gonna confront her on Springer, yeah. And if you don't know, by the way, just to go, because I mean, we just assume everybody knows Jerry Springer. There's kids who are 22, 23 years old that listen to the show, I have no fucking idea what that is. And he's dead, so it's not happening again.

No, I couldn't believe it went on to like 2010 or some shit. Crazy how long it went. Nobody watched that after after 2001, 2002. But Jerry Springer when it first started was a real mild show. Jerry was like Mr. Cardigan guy, and he was like, well, let's hear more about that. Like, Mr. Sensitive.

He was a government person. Before that, he was the mayor of Cincinnati and all that kind of shit. But then they ended up going more sensational because other shows were getting successful with more sensational content. And basically you're not gonna be Oprah and beat Oprah. You know what I'm saying, if you're Jerry Springer.

So they decided to go this raunchy route where it's people on stage and they have problems and they fight. And this was basically someone would come out and go, I heard you fucking my man. And some like Hill basically someone would come out and go, I heard you fucking my man. And some like hillbilly would come out. I love when the women would come out and immediately kick both their shoes off

because they know they're gonna be fighting. So now you have just barefoot hillbillies fighting each other up there, that's all it was. Steve was amazing until he talked. Once he started to show what his personality was, it was fucking boring. Just I want to watch him punch out a tiny, tiny little spinning out skinny method. Just just stand there and look like Jacked Cal Ripken and shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

This assailant starts firing at him. And the suspect... He has been identified as Luigi Nicolass Mangione. ...became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue listen to law and crimes Luigi exclusively on one degree plus enjoying one degree plus the one degree app Spotify or Apple podcasts. In the early hours of December 4th 2024 CEO Brian Thompson

stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This a silent starts firing at him and the suspect he's been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi,

exclusively on Wondery+. You can join Wondery+, the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts. Lamont Jones is shattered when his cousin dies just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. Wondery presents Death County PA, a chilling true story of corruption and coverups.

Follow Death County PA on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Grab a couple of crackheads under each arm and throw them off the set. That's fine. As soon as you talk, I'm so fucking bored. So done. So by this point, this was when, 2000 was when it was, I mean, it wasn't even the beginning of it. It had been for five years, all it was was people fighting.

You go on, you yell at someone, they yell at you, you get up and then there's a big fight and everybody cheers and Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. And then Jerry, you cut to Jerry and he's like just sitting on the stairs running his hands through his hair and then he makes some like quip and then everybody laughs and then everybody sits back down.

Jerry going, I can't believe I had a man come on my show that told us that he was marrying his goat and then there was a fight. This is unbelievable. This is unbelievable. You can't believe it. I think a man just married a quarter horse and we could have a nice ceremony, but no. Can't have anything nice.

No nice things, huh? I had no idea that I'd bring a little person on this show and somebody would try to throw him. Try to throw him after trying to fuck his head. After the little man just told me that he fucks my wife. Oh my god. And that's what it would be. It would be crazy shit like that.

It would be two sisters who were both fucking the same guy and they'd yell at each other, well I fucked him last night. Well I fucked him last night too. Like and they're like. And then he'd come out and then the twist would be, and we don't even want you, we're just going to fuck each other. What? Either that or he'd be, he'd come out, they'd twist would be and we don't even want you We're just gonna fuck each other Either that or he'd be he'd come out they'd be fighting and he'd be like listen I'm only here to tell you I don't want either of you and then here's Mandy and then another chick would come out and then

Both the sisters would beat the shit out of her While he tried to like pull them off of each other and they're holding each other's hair And yeah, and crazy and Mandy's trans and it's crazy because crazy because Mandy's beating the shit out of these women on TV. Yeah. The whole, so yeah, this is, it's just a fucking mess. It's just an absolute trailer park throw down chaos. That's all it is. And they talk about on the, there's a documentary on,

was it Netflix about this? Yeah, yeah. And this case is involved in it. It's from the employees' point of view where they're telling you what happened behind the scenes and why this show ended up going away. Yeah, they were just encouraging this. They needed this, basically, this type of-

They don't regret it? No, no regrets. So this is where you end up taking this beef that they've had, which if you look at them on paper, this looks like the perfect Jerry Springer trio. You know what I mean? All sorts of court stuff, and I divorced her, and I married her, but then I'm back with her.

And the way they met, all of it. The way they met, he's from Germany, it's all a crazy story. But Nancy doesn't fit into this, because Nancy is just kind of a shy lady. And she, like, you look at her, she just looks like a mom. She just looks like some mom. Meek and mild.

Yeah, she looks like, there's nothing about her that's like, oh, she's gonna go on Jerry Springer and start beating people up. Yeah. So it's odd. Now she ends up going on the show because she basically, she thinks it is to confront this other woman.

By the way, she has no idea that Ralph and Eleanor are married, none. She doesn't know that they're married. No clue. And this is May 7th, 2000 is the Jerry Springer Show taping. So they've been married a couple months. She has no fucking idea about it. She thinks that she has been brought here

so Ralph can reconcile with her and they can tell this Eleanor to stay out of their fucking lives. That is what it is. So by the way, the day of the episode filming is Nancy's birthday as well. So this is all on this woman's like 48th birthday. This happens, okay. Now a little bit of thing, this is some background I'll give you from Nancy's son about the relationship.

He said that, you know, after the domestic violence in the beginning where he thrown her down and she hit her head, he says after that she left and filed for divorce. All of a sudden she was in a big house alone and I think she just her head. He says after that she left and filed for divorce. All of the sudden she was in a big house alone and I think she just got lonely. That's why she went on the show to get him back. Because she's just sitting there by herself

which was the whole point of going on AOL to begin with was to not be by yourself. So he said, this is the son Jeffrey, my mother believed that Ralph had been deported to Germany. Oh, she thought he was gone. So that's how little she was stalking him. She thought he was on another continent. I have to email him because he doesn't have

an American phone anymore. That's right. He is in Gluttenstoggen or some shit. I don't even know, that's not a real place, but it sounds like it could be. It probably does feel like stalking when she's emailing you at fucking 4 a.m. because she thinks it's 2 p.m. there.

She's just at work in her normal schedule. He's like, what's happening now? So, Jeffrey said that, then he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother. But she was basically lied to because that never happened. I don't think my mother had any idea what she was walking into. And that's another thing too. The Springer Show likes to ambush guests with things that they don't know are gonna happen to get the reactions. They want reactions and

when they showed in the documentary too like they're like well when they're like coaching them backstage the producers are like, alright What if she comes out and she says I don't care. I'm fucking your boyfriend. I'm doing it in your own bed What are you gonna say and the lady was you know, the other person was like I'd tell her like, you know You're a bitch and she's like no, that's not enough. Like that's really gonna you know do something So you you know get this energy up and they'd be like you're not fucking my man anymore my fucking bed I'll take you but yeah. Yeah. that, that. And they'd encourage him. That's more of that, more of that, more of that.

That's what we need. Yeah. And maybe if she's not going to listen to you, you might have to go over and grab her by the hair and tell her about it and shit like that. Now you're getting the gist of the show. Yeah. Wow.

So Jeffrey said, my mother believed that Ralph had been deported to Germany and that the show was going to pay for his travel back to America, then they could reconcile and he could stay. Wow. So this was just basically a way to get him over here for free. Oh boy. Then he would tell his new girlfriend that he wanted to be with my mother.

That was the plan. So that was it. So anyway, he said it was shocking to say the least that she agreed to do it. It was so out of character for her. She said, he said, growing up, I don't even remember my mother dating ever, maybe once or twice, but nothing like a serious relationship because she was a widow. He said to see her up there on the show, just looking like a deer caught in the headlights, like what's going on here? I just wish I could go back and say to her don't do this okay now it is Eleanor Ralph and Nancy and they're going to appear in a segment titled secret mistresses confronted yeah which again sounds right sounds everything sounds on the up

and up here she didn't realize that she is she's the mistress yes that's. She didn't realize that she is the secret mistress. She's the mistress. Yes, that's what she didn't realize. So the show starts out with Eleanor up there and then Nancy comes out. They're sitting on kind of the opposite sides of the stage in chairs and then there's a chair placed in the middle of them. With everything, everybody spaced apart. Like the chair in the middle's five feet from each chair. If we can give you the layout there, okay? So Eleanor gets on the stage, or I'm sorry, Nancy's there and Eleanor is mocking her immediately.

Calling her old and fat and all this type of shit and everything, because she's, Eleanor is like two years younger than Ralph. Right. And Nancy's 12 years older, so she's like 14 years younger than Nancy and she's calling her old, she's calling her fat, she's calling her all this bullshit, right?

So it's very cruel. And you could see that Nancy, you know when you see a person's face go back to the sixth grade? Yeah. Where they're like, just let this go by. It's very disconcerting to see an adult do that, have to do that, go through that weird.

She's realizing, it's the face of regret for this decision, but she also doesn't feel like there's any solution of getting out of this decision Until I just let it get out get be done with the time don't argue back Just sit there kind of quiet along this takes over with it over with I'll get out of here and and there's a crowd You know heckling and jeering along it's like gym class basically It's gym class and someone is ridiculing you in front of the whole class and they're laughing like it's horrifying horrifying not not comfortable to watch so

It's not the usual usually it's like well you need to get away You're old and fat and then she'd go you fucking bitch you got syphilis. I heard fuck you you fucking twat And that's the normal thing, but Nancy's not going she's not giving them the Jerry Springer episode She's just sitting there being a normal person who's been blindsided and ambushed and she is not okay with this, but she's not comfortable with it and not able to, she clearly avoids confrontation.

Yes, exactly. She's not big on confrontation. I don't think she's a yeller and a screamer. I don't think she's a fighter. I think she's kind of a mild-mannered person for Michigan. I think she's real chill. So what she says is that she explains that she and Ralph are trying to restore their marriage but Eleanor won't leave them alone.

That's what Nancy says. And Eleanor said, I want you to leave us alone, I want a normal life. And then Nancy said, no you don't, neither does Ralph, he loves the loves the excitement there you go which is kind of the truth here yeah so then Jerry Springer exciting no sucks so then they bring out Ralph let's bring out Ralph yeah and he steps out with this big like hahaha I'm a stud like he just look at me he had a little stupid German ponytail yeah he was dressed like an idiot and look at all this American pussy. I'm stealing isn't this amazing They're fighting over me. Oh my goodness

Look at me like this look on his face was just so cocky and he goes over and he kisses Eleanor and then walks over And kisses Nancy To kisses her on the cheek then sits down in his chair Okay now in between. In between them. In between them, which is what they want, because they either want. Twixt the gals. Twixt the gals, yeah.

So, this is when she learns that they're married. Yeah. And she is like, you could see that like, is a physical blow to her, you could see like. Yeah, yeah. At that point, she's really going, uh-oh, what am I doing here, what's going on? Yeah, why am I, I thought we were talking about mistresses.

You could see the wheels turning where she's like, wait a second, they're married. Oh my god, I'm the mistress. I'm the mistress, what the fuck. Shit. You could totally, totally see it. So they start accusing her of stalking them, Eleanor and Ralph are accusing Nancy of that.

And then out of nowhere when they're like, yeah, he wants me and they're going back and forth, she then says, well, I don't know, why was he sleeping with me the last couple nights then? Nancy says that. Right. Now Eleanor tries to act like that's nothing to her. Doesn't bother, that's fine, that's fine.

Whatever. Neil, or Neil, Ralph, Neil. I don't know where that came from. Not even close, did he say? Not even close. You keep all these fucking people straight. Tell this goddamn story. That was just so fun.

I have them written in front of me and I can't even keep them straight. I understand that. Who the hell knows, it's hard. More sympathetic, I couldn't couldn't be I don't know where the fuck I what am I talking? I'm a moron You should be you have a lot of sympathy for me because I have brain damage apparently calling people by the wrong names I need sympathy so Ralph tells Nancy that he I don't wish you any harm or anything like that. Just leave me alone

I don't wish you any harm or anything like that. Just leave me alone. He said that. That could have been a text message, you dick. Why are we on Jerry fucking, well it's 2000, so it couldn't have been a text message, but an email. You could have sent a quick reply and said I'm married, and she wouldn't have written back. Yeah, you know that AOL thing you do all the time?

Get on there, you've got mail motherfucker, and it's not Jerry Springer. Yeah so they that Ralph then Says that I was only the only reason That I had sex with her the last couple days is Because I wanted to be nice to her to get her to come on the show Yeah, so it was a like a like a bait dick is because I wanted to be nice to her to get her to come on the show. Yeah. So it was like a bait dick.

Yeah. I was trying to. I was fishing with my worm. Yeah. He said he wanted to keep her quote illusioned and to ensure that she would, you know, be on the show. Yeah. Which is just gross.

And the current wife has no problem with this. He's like, she goes, yeah, see, he doesn't wanna be with you. It's like, have you, he just said he fucked her last night and you're fine with this. Okay, so then Nancy said, this is Ralph. He plays the games with all his women. He takes all the money he can get and had said and um, and he said, Nancy said that that after he said he had sex with her yesterday.

Um, but he said, but the matter of the fact is that I married Ellie and I do love Eleanor. Then, um, Eleanor said Ralph loves me and wants to be with me and you redheaded bitch from hell you need to leave us alone That's a producer thing they want you to have That kind of have a catchphrase name Colin. Yeah. Yeah do some but make it creative You know do that you redheaded bitch from hell. So Eleanor as she said you need to get a life I hope you enjoyed yourself immensely the last two nights,

because it's the last time you're ever going to see him. He wants to be with me. Wow. Um, that is crazy. So Jerry, uh, said that quote, you know, he came in there and asked why, why'd you do this? And that's when he made the illusion to comment. Then Ralph said, quote, I thought she might be humiliated enough to realize it was over. Oh.

I figured I'd bring her on national syndicated television to humiliate her. Figured this part where she cries publicly. You know, that's where we insult her. With millions of people watching, that oughta make it stop. So then Eleanor said, you can't humiliate this woman. Like she's beyond, you know, has no shame basically.

So Jerry turns to Nancy and said, he's telling you he doesn't want to be with you. And Nancy, now this is the point where Nancy's supposed to go But he's my man and fuck that and she's supposed she's supposed to go over and like mush Eleanor's face and then Ralph's gonna come up and grab her from behind and then both the women are gonna fight They're gonna have each other's hair and Steve is gonna be throwing Ralph off and trying to that's that's the point of what's supposed to happen here She brought shaving cream to mash it in this woman's face Yeah, someone's gonna take their shoe off and hit somebody else with it. Instead, Nancy says, quote, that's fine, buy and walks off the stage. Yeah. She is way too classy to be on the show. That's what that says to me. Yeah,

that's the answer that you're supposed to have as a rational human being. Yeah, that's what an adult would say. You know what I mean? That's fine. I don't want to have as a rational human being. Yeah, that's what an adult would say. You know what I mean? That's fine. I don't want to be anywhere near you then. Buy and leave. Or this dumb Joe. Why am I here?

Why am I here? And the audience like cheered and shit because they were like, yeah, get out of here, bitch. Like because the audience was on their Ralph and Eleanor side. Stupid. Which you're on Ralph's side. He just said, I fucking pork this lady to get her here. This is crazy. So at that point now, Eleanor is up out of her seat and, you know, talking shit as she's

walking off the stage and all that shit. And wow, Eleanor forgives Ralph. It's okay that you did that the day before and all this type of shit. Didn't really care Nancy's son said quote. It's pretty obvious that they were there to ambush her So I don't think you can argue with that No The interesting thing is the title of the show if she had known what the title was she probably would have thought twice about Appearing but she didn't know that. The producers wanted them to get physical

and make threats, and she wasn't about to do that. She looks like a nice lady who works in the office at a high school or something. You know what I mean? She's so timid. She's like Ferris Bueller's principal secretary. That's what she reminds me of as far as personality. She's just kind of a mild-mannered, meek lady.

The principal secretary was much louder than she was louder. But I mean, like what she looks like, though, is like that. Like somebody's whatever. So she also looks like she has a lot of stress going on in her life. She has a lot of a lot of things that she's trying to balance. And this was, she thought, something that was going to get her back together with the person that she cares about. Yeah. Yeah.

Instead, she's been ambushed and wasted her fucking time. Wasted her time. When she's got bills to pay. Leave me the fuck alone. Like I said, if this was a different talk show, one that wasn't predicated on hillbillies fighting each other publicly, then it might have been different. You know what I mean? If she was going on one of those other ones.

But Jerry Springer has one fucking goal and one goal only, and that is to get white trash to beat the shit out of each other on television. That's it. We need white trash, blood, and somebody to have a crazy sexual proclivity. That's what we need on this. That's all.

And then you got something here. So Eleanor later about this whole thing says, actually we didn't even do a good job, meaning on the show. They wanted yelling and screaming and to lunge at each other and we didn't do that. No because she was gone, you couldn't. She didn't participate in that.

If you wanted a show you could have turned to Ralph and took a swing at him for fucking banging her the night before, that would have been something. There you go. Yeah now Backstage the producers don't just go you tell him Nancy great job. That's right. You shouldn't have taken that stuff They go. What are you doing? Get back out there? And she said no Yeah, we're fucking getting back out there. They said yeah, you are you got to get back out there

Go get in her face go tell them what the fuck you think they're bullshit and you got it and she said no I want you they made it clear yeah and I'm not gonna go out there and embarrass myself then they pull the the talk show card here which is whole card yes this is this is crazy this is like like holding someone's passport in a foreign country or something it's. Like exactly what it is They tell her well if you want to get your flight home You'll go back out there. Otherwise, we're not giving you your ticket home What the fuck you're stuck here. That's kidnapping. That's

Insane like blackmail or not extortion. I don't know what the fuck it is, but it's not good. No, so That's and it's fucked up. They're like allowed to do that. I can't believe they're allowed to I can't believe you can just Withhold somebody's return ticket Because they until they complete whatever it is that you want Meanwhile, she she does she have a time limit that she has to be out because she went on the fucking show and on the show She's just not and they they do, they threaten her, and apparently they do this with everybody. They threaten them with, you're not getting your ticket home.

Like you wanna go home, then fuck, how are you gonna be here? And a lot of these contestants, you can tell, contestants, it's not a contest, but not a game show, but a lot of the people that are on this show, participants is the word I'm looking for, a lot of the participants, when you watch it, they don't have any money No, they're they're

Very very poor people a lot of these people and they don't literally don't have the money to get a bus ticket to Arkansas From where the fuck they are from Chicago Which is you know you hold a lot of control over someone when they can't even buy their own bus ticket and you brought this woman from Sarasota, Florida to yes in Chicago So they keep telling her that and she says I don't give a shit what you do I'm not fucking going back out there. So they go. Okay, you don't get a return ticket home, right and she leaves Yeah now

Included in this is not only return tickets and all this shit is also You're supposed to get they get limo rides to their hotels to the airport To the you know they get on their flights and do all that kind of shit They just kick her out in the street Oh Nancy ends up wandering the streets of Chicago with her fucking rolly suitcase It's not she has a place to be wandering around with a suitcase, no hotel, no, no ride, no, and no flight home.

She's just stuck in Chicago and she has no money either. She does not have enough money to get home or to get a hotel room or do anything. So she basically wanders around the city, rolling her fucking suitcase, crying about what just happened until some actual, one decent human being on the face of the earth said, oh my God, what's wrong? And she said, I went on the Jerry Springer Show,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and this guy understood her plight and bought her a bus ticket to Sarasota. Wow. So this is literally a good Samaritan, just some nice person in the street bought her a Greyhound ticket to Sarasota, or else she'd still fucking be there. Recognize this person is not just, she's just down on her luck and needs help.

Yeah, she's not a crackhead, she's a nice middle-aged lady with her rolly bag going I won't let me back on and they've seen Springer. Yeah, but the mayor of Cincinnati just ruined her day. Yeah, yeah. So the Ralph and Eleanor though get the limo to the airport from the show. And in the limo with other guests from the show, because they're basically just shipped the whole cabal

off to the airport right after the show, Eleanor wished aloud in front of everybody that Nancy was dead. I wish she'd die. Okay. And they were all like, Oh shit. And then later on, a waitress at a pizza place in Sarasota said that she heard Ralph talk about the show and say of his ex-wife, quote, I'll choke the life out of her. So that's not good. Those are bad statements now This is from the son Jeffrey Saying backstage my mom was informed that if she didn't return at the end of the show They would not provide her return ticket to Florida and she wasn't having that

He said somehow she found her way to the bus station after walking the streets alone by herself She didn't have any money in anywhere to go It was just her crying and a good Samaritan saw her visibly upset and bought her a bus ticket like we said Now multiple producers confirm. That's what the show does. This is not a rumor or anything else They'll tell you straight up we tell them if you don't get out there and perform or not send any home. I Didn't think they'd actually do it I always thought that was just a threat to get people to do it But at the end of the day, they go fine. Here's your fucking ticket, get out of here. But they don't give you your ticket.

So this is Toby Yoshimura, that's the guy from the documentary, the producer there, one of the guys. He said, you as a producer had one more opportunity to keep them. They should feel beholden to you that they are letting you down and that you've done all this for them. And like, yeah, you should be like, they should be like, they owe you something,

so they gotta go out there and perform. Yeah. Like one of them talked about how one guy told him, gee buddy, you bought me the best rack of ribs I've ever had in my life last night, so I'm gonna go out there and put on quite a show for you. I'm gonna really kick some ass today. I got a belly full of pork right now, I'm feeling good.

I'm a burp honey barbecue all over that motherfucker. Oh man, it's smoky. My burps is smoky right now. So they also noted that no one from the show tried to contact Nancy afterwards to check in on her or see where she went or see if she's alive or got home or anything like that. And yeah, one other former producer, Richard Dominic, said, we weren't problem solvers. We weren't going to give you the chance to get a little bit of a better life. if she's alive or got home or anything like that. And yeah, one other former producer, Richard Dominick,

said, we weren't problem solvers. We weren't going to give you the chance to tell your story and get it all out, but we are also, but we are not going to help you. Or we will give you the chance to tell your story and get it all out, but we're not gonna help you. That's what they say. Why is it a policy to just treat people like shit though?

You don't have to treat people like shit. Yeah, you do. You can work with them probably too and they'll do the things you want. Otherwise you get taken advantage of, James, if you show remorse and sadness and softness. They're going to be coming in from everywhere. I don't understand it. I mean, I don't know. We're not going to help you.

Fuck off. Yeah. I don't know. We can't we were not gonna help you fuck off. Yeah So the show description here like if you looked at the website or a TV guide or something back then said Eleanor says her ex-wife's husband Nan won't take no for an answer Nan has stalked them so severely that they had to go into hiding today Nan will learn that her ex-husband is actually married to Eleanor into hiding. Today Nan will learn that her ex-husband is actually married to Eleanor. So they just spun it as a big ambush on Eleanor, or on Nancy, which is fucked up. So June 10th, 2000, about a month later, Eleanor now gets in on all these injunctions going back and forth. Eleanor files a petition for an injunction against Ralph now. What is going on? A month later now, Ralph and Eleanor are now broken up. All of a sudden they're not

doing great. No, and she's filing fucking restraining orders against him. She said also that Nancy was still stalking them. Said that it just got to the point where anywhere we went, she would find a way to show up. It just got worse as time went on and we couldn't get any peace. So June 15th, 2000, dude, this is just, put a neck brace on so you don't get whiplash.

So they're together, okay, May is the show fuck Nancy Eleanor and Ralph are solid June 10th 2000 Eleanor says fuck Ralph. He's a piece of shit June 15th 2000 five days later Nancy and Ralph buy a house together. I Couldn't this is insane. This is he took this woman on his show two months ago a month ago I go and told her he wanted nothing to do with her now. We made fun of her called her a piece of shit. Yeah Yeah, pick a fence together. We need to own half a big offense. This is crazy. I'll show a nice little house, too

I'll show you here. It's on a lease option to buy lease to buy basis here at the time The house was worth a hundred and three000 by the way. The estimate on this house right now is $450,800. It's a two bedroom, two bath, 1300 square foot house. Half a million dollars? Yeah, look at that. What the fuck? Half a million dollars just about for that. Boring, yeah. I don't think so. It's fine, yeah. It's fine, it's a nice little house, but I mean, ain't a half million dollars worth a house. People move to Florida to not pay a half million dollars for a little house.

Yeah, right, exactly. So there's the house, they move in, 2827 Grand Cayman Street in Sarasota. That address should sound familiar to everybody from the beginning of the show. So this is from Nancy's son. He says, after the taping of the show, mom was determined to go on with her life without Ralph.

She didn't want anything more from him. I don't know what happened in the two or three months after they were on the stage, but somehow they got back together at that point. Yeah. I don't get it either. She put money down on a home and then he went back to his old ways He threatened her again and like she did on the show. She wasn't going to take it anymore So but that was this is not for a few days anyway, so June 15th They buy the house June 20th five days after that Ralph files for divorce from Eleanor, okay, so that's done

Okay, well we we'll see. Put by early July, Ralph started messaging Eleanor again, asking her to take him back. Reconcile, babe. He's still living with Nancy. This is insane. These women should get together, have lunch, and go, let's both beat the shit out of him. He's the problem.

Yeah. You flatten the left side, I'll flatten the right side. Yeah, what are we doing here? Why are we fighting with each other? So July 10, 2000. This is a month after Eleanor filed against him, and less than a month after he moved into a house with Nancy, Ralph moves into...

Okay, this is crazy. He left the house, okay? Like I said, he's messaging with Eleanor, leaves the house, then on July 10th he moves back into the house with Eleanor. What? He brings his wife to Nancy's house and moves in. So now it's the three of them living there. Why would Nancy allow this?

What the fuck kind of demented Threes company is going on here? This is crazy. Don Knotts would have nothing to do with this. Holy shit. Unbelievable. So I don't even know what to say about that. Now this day, July 10th, they came, 814 a.m.

So they haven't been there that fucking long. They must've just got there. The Sarasota Sheriff's Office reports Nancy was made to leave by a deputy answering a call for a disturbance at the home with Eleanor. Eleanor called the cops on Nancy saying that they were fighting and you need to get Nancy out of the house so the cops come and remove Nancy from the home. From her own home.

From her own home that they just moved back into. This is insane. I don't even know what's going on here. So the police were having to show up at the home apparently all the time to break up fights between the two of them or the three of them mainly between the two women both claiming Ralph is their husband. Wow. I mean, dude, this is exhausting. 1205 PM that day. So 814 is remove Nancy.

1205 Ralph again calls the sheriff's office to report his cell phone was missing from his home And he suspected that Nancy took it when she left earlier that morning. Yeah Jesus so July 11th the next morning Nancy tries to get an injunction To be able to go back to her house and get them out of the house. Okay, that's what she's going for Nancy testified during an injunction hearing that, quote, I was so scared of them that I left immediately. She said that she went to live with her aunt and uncle in Manatee County, and Nancy was denied

an injunction against Eleanor. Okay, so she can't get... Can we kick her out of my fucking house, though? No, no, that's what you're trying to do. No Because Ralph is on half the lease too and She can stay. Yep. So that's how it goes now Someone else does get an injunction that day though. Who's that? Not Nancy. No Marcus panics Marcus yeah, who's Marcus is Ralph's German nephew who also lives

here oh my god he's moved into the house now as well who did you get a junction against Nancy he gets an injunction against Nancy Nancy claiming she threatened him so now there's an actual injunction against Nancy to not go to her house because her ex-husband's nephew said that she threatened him. And can't, he lives in her house. And he lives in her house with Ralph and Ralph's not quite ex-wife. Yeah, what do you call, I don't even know. This is a fucking mess.

Yeah. This is a fucking mess. Yeah. This is a mess. This is one of those where you need somebody to come in and go, nobody talk to each other ever again. None of you. I swear to God, if I see two of you in the same room, I'm killing both of you. I swear to Christ, I'm gonna put a bullet in all your fucking

heads if you're ever in the same room with each other. Is Nancy just a hopeless romantic? Is that what it is? She just wants... Yes. She's in love with Ralph. She loved Ralph. Is Nancy just a hopeless romantic? Is that what it is? She just wants, yeah. She's in love with Ralph. She loved Ralph. And Nancy, like I said, she's not a woman who dated a lot. This is, she was married

and then never really had another relationship. So it's like, she's a widow. In her mind, you marry a guy, then that's your husband and you stay with them. And you're a couple or whatever. And then, yeah. So Ralph doesn't see it that way. Much more, I never think of the Germans

as being real loose and willy-nilly, but apparently this guy is just, they are into sex though. Maybe Eleanor does poop stuff for him, I'm not sure. She might be getting some scat play, yeah. We don't know, that's what I mean, we don't know. We can't know. July 13th, 2000, the last one't know We can't know July 13th

2000 the last one the injunction day was July 11th July 13th 2011 15 a.m. There is a visit from the sheriff's office Ralph says he heard a noise outside at about 2 30 p.m. Or 2 30 a.m. That morning and He went out to investigate and found the garage door was open oh he said he knew he that he closed it before going to bed but didn't lock it he told the deputy he believed that Nancy was responsible you know it was stolen what wallpaper paste and a gray metal box yeah that's what your ex wants you really want your wallpaper paste and a gray metal box yeah that's what your ex wants you really want your wallpaper paste

not that you're in a place that has twice the national average of property crime and you left a garage door open and someone stole your wallpaper paste because they could sell that at a construction site or something for a few bucks not that at all I'm sure it's Nancy said I'll take this box and wallpaper paste. That'll show them. Nancy. Yeah. She's big, big caper there. She's, yeah. Yeah. She's waiting for your, for your

garage door to be left open. So she can sit. She's been looking, waiting for it to be. And then she got them in the car. Think about it. She put that wallpaper paste right on the seat next to her in the front seat, started up her car. As soon as it went in reverse, she went, that's right. Now I got him. The perfect crime. He'll never know, isn't he? Now I got him.

So about a week and a half, almost two weeks goes by. Okay. She is gonna end up, as we'll talk about here, trying to get another injunction here. She gets an injunction against Eleanor, and Eleanor has to stay 500 feet away from her, meaning that Eleanor then has to leave this house, okay? So that's how that goes.

Then she also gets an order of protection against Ralph for domestic violence. She told the judge he is frequently violent. That morning, the one they're discussing in this, whatever morning they were together, he had chased me with a knife, with a knife, and made threats about taking my life, ending my life, the way he was going to torture me.

Whoa. So he's ordered to stay 500 feet away also and she is given exclusive possession and living rights to the Grand Cayman Street property. Holy goddamn shit this is wild man. So the the problem is the the sheriff goes to serve Eleanor with her injunction at 10 45 a.m. At the house. Yeah, but Eleanor presented an injunction issued in Manatee County against Nancy So they said well, what do we do we have dueling injunctions so the sheriff had to leave mm-hmm This the court order prohibited Nancy

from coming within 500 feet of the residence. No one's allowed to be within 500 feet of this residence at this point. These are, you ever seen like a crime movie where like people realize we've been double-crossing each other and then all three people take guns out at the same time and they point them at each other. I pointed him and I pointed him and he points,

that's what this is. A ridiculous, comedic, not comedic, because it's tragic, but fuck, this is ridiculous, man. They need to sell this home, and she and Ralph go separate ways forever. It's a lease, they can get out. It's a lease, we're leaving. Don't you want us to leave

since the cops are here every day? You probably don't want that in your house. So the deputy couldn't determine who had legal rights to the house, so he told Nancy she had to meet with another deputy in the civil department of the sheriff's office to resolve the discrepancies in the two injunctions. She's back to square one, she's fucked.

So July 24th, 2000. Okay, remember we started on that day. Nancy's in court that morning mm-hmm working this out This is Nancy's attorney quote there had been several incidents with Ralph before and this time He'd actually been kicked out of her house Nancy said to me that her and Ralph had been on the Jerry Springer show and then it was about it was going to air in Two weeks they're talking about two weeks earlier because this is the day where the Jerry Springer show airs July 24th, okay? He said that didn't register with me

I really felt from her that it was between her and Ralph she was done with him and she wanted to get back into her house So they there's a tape recording In which Nancy gets a court order against him. They have like the court tape here and court order against him. They have like the court tape here and tells the judge that Ralph had beat her several times during their marriage and she said till recently she had been trying to reconcile with him.

She even said she wanted to remarry him before she learned on the Springer episode that he was already remarried. That's what she's telling the judge. Since then she said she just wanted to get on with her life meanwhile she bought a house with the guy you can't move on with your life no it's fucking sad because she's just I think she's just a nice lady who's looking for looking for someone to be around yeah look at this over someone have a good time with and grow old with it doesn't

seem that that's crazy so Nancy even said that she shared her home with Ralph and his new wife, not knowing that they were married shortly after she divorced him. Meaning before they went on the show, they lived together for a couple weeks because she thought that Eleanor was just some friend of his that needed a place to stay for a minute, not his mistress or his wife actually at the time.

So, well, my God. Uh, then she said, she goes on to say that on July 10th that Ralph chased her with a knife and made threats. You remember July 10th was one of those court days that we talked about. Um, she said he spent a couple of hours, Sunday, a couple of hours telling me how he would kill me and my whole family. He was trying to think of a way to do Sunday, a couple of hours, telling me how he would kill me and my whole family. He was trying to think of a way to do it, to get away with it. By the way, I'm going to kill your whole family.

I'm just, once I figure it out, it's on. Scratching his head with a knife blade going, I just can't, I can't, I can't work it out. Once I figure it out, you watch out. I can't configure it. I just don't know So the Ralph because Ralph is in court to Ralph tells the judge that Nancy's the aggressor and had been stalking him He said he went on the Springer show because he thought if she was confronted before a national audience Maybe she'd leave him alone. Finally The judge Robert Bennett signed a permanent injunction against Ralph after the hearing and a sheriff's deputy served the order that evening

Ralph was so pissed off that he was overheard by a bailiff Saying that his ex-wife would never get the house. Oh Even though the judge just issued a permanent injunction against him going to that house. You know, she'll never get it. Yeah issued a permanent injunction against him going to that house. Yeah, well, she'll never get it. Yeah. She's never going to get it. Well, Nancy's lawyer said when Ralph walked out of that courtroom, he wasn't cursing or stomping.

He seemed resigned to the ruling. There wasn't really an issue. But then he went to a bar, and they were playing the episode. Ralph watched the entire show getting drunk, and he was getting more agitated So and then at one point during this he turns to a just a person who's at the bar Yeah, and says I'm going to kill her and then keeps drinking Okay now come down

So let's talk about the later that afternoon. This is after court This is the afternoon the Jerry Springer Show airs. And if you remember, that's an afternoon show. It's always on like, when you get home from school, Jerry Springer's on back in the day. Was it two or was it one? Was it two o'clock? I don't know about Arizona.

I lived in New York, so I didn't know about the Arizona. But it was like three o'clock in New York or whatever. And it was on like four different channels. It was on at fucking. That's the other part. You could watch two episodes in a day, because it was syndicated and TBS, and it was crazy. They'd have an early show.

Then there'd be another one at like 11 o'clock at night or midnight, a different episode. And then sometimes they'd show like four of them in a row. You'd be like, great, I'm just watching this all night. So that's what happened. So later on that afternoon, like we said, Ralph watches the Jerry Springer episode at a bar drinking ice house beer. Oh He really wants to shit later boy, that is a choice you think a German would pick a better beer than ice house

You know what I'm saying? Are they out of rolling rock man? Where they had a red dog what happened try to think of 2000 era beers. Oh boy. That is fucking awful. So, they, him and his nephew watched the episode. So him and Marcus, remember Marcus here, they sat and drank heavily according to witnesses and Marcus and everybody else. So, they went to, he was with, by the way, Marcus was with Ralph and Eleanor when they went to he was with by the way

Marcus was with Ralph and Eleanor when they went to court that day. Oh, he came with them his member He's like living there, too So after the judge granted possession of the house to Nancy Marcus said his uncle was upset and angry and excited But in a heavy German accent, so even more angry, upset, and excited. Eleanor and Marcus left Ralph at the bar while they went to the residence to gather their belongings, because they're not supposed to be there, so they have to go get their shit out of the house, essentially.

So they come back to the bar, Marcus and Eleanor, to watch the Jerry Springer show with a now quite intoxicated Ralph, apparently, from what everybody says. Right. They watchicated Ralph, apparently, from what everybody says. They watch it, and apparently Marcus said that Ralph told him, quote, I'm going back to the house, it's my house, not Nancy's house.

Okay. Okay, now by the way, there's a couple more details, one of which is absolutely hilarious that we'll talk about in a little while, because it is one of the details of him at the bar for hours. It's so fucking funny. So I can't wait to tell you especially. Now, Marcus said that his uncle was drinking heavily. After the show ended, Ralph, quote, persuaded Marcus and Eleanor to drive him to the house, even though it's

very illegal for him to be within 500 feet of it. So Marcus says, quote, we walked into the master bedroom. My uncle threw himself on the bed saying, it's my house. But Marcus said, I saw police through the window. My uncle, yeah, whoops. My uncle jumped off the bed, ran to the dining room and climbed out through the window. My uncle, yeah, whoops. My uncle jumped off the bed, ran to the dining room, and climbed out of the window. He escaped through a fucking window.

So he's aware that even though it's his house, he's not leaving through doors, so. He's not opening the door going, tell them the cops, this is my house, go away. That's, yeah, he knows what's up. Lamont Jones's world is shattered when his cousin dies in custody just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. From Wondery comes Death

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and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Last year, long crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer, John O'Keefe with her car. Karen Reed is arrested and charged with second degree murder. The six-week trial resulted in anything but resolution. We continue to find ourselves at an impasse.

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So the sheriffs come, and Eleanor and Marcus are left in the house. And they're there to pack their shit and then leave the property. Now, there I guess had been a, they had made a plan before as he's jumping out the window he said meet me at the 7-Eleven. There's a 7-Eleven near here, a store. Okay, so Marcus and Eleanor get all their shit and go to the 7-Eleven where they thought they could find Ralph where he's supposed to be But he's not there rendezvous at the tornado grillers. That's it

Gotta have it. Yeah, so that's what's going on here. That's the safe house is the 7-eleven Yeah, hook up at the big gulp stand. Let's do it. Yeah, and they said that They couldn't find him. Marcus said he and Eleanor separated to search for Ralph but couldn't find him. So Marcus said that he then returned after looking for his uncle, returned to the 7-Eleven again so that he could call his girlfriend

because he doesn't have a cell phone, I don't think. And that's when Eleanor ran up to him at the 7-Eeleven in a panic and Saying she's you know going crazy going crazy. He said that That they were doing this Eleanor ran up and said quote hurry up Ralph is going into the house and he's going and he's trying to kill Nancy Nancy's crying for help. Oh, so and he's trying to kill Nancy. Nancy's crying for help. Oh, so she's there and he's there.

And they're in the house and Eleanor is coming to get Marcus to get help for this. So Eleanor, one thing I'll give her, at least she didn't jump in and try to like, you know, go, yeah, get her. Yeah, yeah. She at least is- Can I encourage it?

Encourage it, she's trying to do that. So then he said Eleanor must have seen something that made her very frightened He said because she said heard that she had a terrified look on her face like oh my god. She came up This was no games. So Marcus they run back to the house Marcus is crying yelling for help as he walks up the street here with four neighbors basically looking for neighbors they find, looking for neighbors. They find a neighbor named Ron Shin, and this neighbor says,

Marcus told me his uncle Ralph was in the house, that he was drunk, and that he was killing his ex-wife and himself. Okay. So the guy said, Marcus was asking me for help. So this neighbor who lives right across the street said that Marcus, you know, that Marcus said that his uncle had been hiding in the trees earlier when police arrived to

escort Marcus and Eleanor off the property, which he climbed out the window and hid in the trees. That's what he did. So this neighbor also said that he tried to enter the home through the front door. How about call the cops? What are you, why would, there's people in there murdering each other. Let me head right in there then. No, that's when I turn around and walk the opposite way and call 911. That's not my fucking job to deal with this.

So Shin said that he tried to enter the home through the front door, but it was barricaded from the inside, as you remember. So he called 911. Finally, there you go. And another neighbor said that they heard, so he called 911 based on that. That's the one call saying a man and a woman. Then another neighbor said that he heard screams

coming from the residence less than an hour before that as well. He said, I heard a screaming male voice that sounded angry, loud, and I couldn't understand what was said. The screaming stopped as sudden as suddenly as it started. I saw Eleanor Pannet standing on the street screaming in the direction of the house. I heard her yell, Ron, don't do this. And she looked like she had seen a ghost.

And later on, he'll say that he misheard it. It's Ralph that she said, but he just thought it was, he didn't remember when he was telling the cops. I think she said, Ron, don't do this. But when they said, was it Ralph? He was like, yeah, yeah, Ralph, my bad, my bad. That's the name, yeah, couldn't remember the name. So that's what's going on here. Now, according to Eleanor, while this is going on, Marcus with the neighbors guy trying to

bust in, 911 is being called from two different places, Eleanor decided to circle the block a few times because she didn't want to be seen at the house when police arrived. So that's when she spotted Ralph running down the street. Oh. Yeah. She's like fucking raising Arizona or some shit. Yeah, he's got a panty on his head and some pamphlets under his arm.

Son, you got a panty on your head, yeah. Huggies, huggies. Huggies, that's right, it was huggies. Yeah, get some huggies. So she told him to get in the car, and he, I assume, threw the huggies in and then dove in head first. Doberman's chasing him so Doberman's chasing

Doberman's chasing him fucking people shooting at him some Toothless Hillbilly clerk shooting at him. So he gets in the car they take off. Yeah gone from the scene. Police arrived 735 they break down the door and that's when they find Nancy in the house and unrecognizably beaten. Wow. Unrecognized. She's been strangled and beaten to death as well.

And by the way, Ralph is a black belt in karate also. Oh, really? So he knows, yes, he knows how to fight, throw punches and kicks. I didn't know about German karate love, but apparently no. Yeah Big Van Damme Big Van Damme fan saw blood sport really got into it. I don't know I'm not sure Van Damme is Belgian I understand but is most yeah close fucking enough of a beer country that they're share a border with eat dicks. So

This is she's in there, she's in horrible condition. It's an extremely bloody scene. Blood everywhere, I mean everywhere. They said that, Jesus Christ, the fucking Nancy's, wow, her bones of her face were separated from the bones of her skull. Oh my. I've we've done this show a long time.

I've never heard of anybody getting beaten that bad. Just with fists, fists and feet. She's been stopped. This is mainly from being stopped. Oh boy. This is horrific, dude. Imagine imagine a person is on the ground and you stomping their fucking head until all their bones aren't connected anymore. Imagine that.

How horrifying that is. Separated the facial bones from the rest of the head. Basically just like a melon smashing against a tile. That's horrifying, man. There were shoe print impressions left in the blood on the kitchen floor and shoe prints on her face that's That's how hard she was being kicked but in the print a

Skechers logo could be made out. He wears shape ups. It's wearing some sketches So He really cares about that lower back. He does he's like a man. I get he's got soreness some sketchers. Oh, so. He really cares about that lower back. He does. He's like, man, I get it. He's got soreness, you don't understand. It's hard to be a German philandering karate expert.

Your back gets sore. It's very difficult. I'm surprised he's getting so much pussy wearing sketchers. He's wearing, dude, when you see this guy, you're like, why is everyone clamoring over this fucking dildo? He's wearing sketch dude, when you see this guy, you're like, why is everyone clamoring over this fucking dildo? He's wearing Skechers, ladies.

And he speaks with a hilariously funny German accent. Like, this is ridiculous. While he wears Skechers. Skechers, that's the ultimate funny accent, German. It's fucking, when I was like five, six years old, my mother's friends, they all, my mother's friends knew this guy from Germany came over. He was like a young guy, he was like in his early 20s.

I guess my mom was, Christ, she was probably 25 at the time. I don't know. Anyway, we were, how he hung out with this guy, her and her friends and this guy, we went to like the Bronx Zoo and shit. And the whole day was just him marveling at things and all of us cracking up laughing at him because he talks so funny.

That was, it was so fucking funny. I think, I think World War II may have been avoided had Hitler been wearing those stupid fucking shoes. Nobody would have taken them seriously. No one would have taken them seriously. Yeah, you couldn't have. Couldn't have, definitely not. So they weren't fucking Skechers?

The fucking Germans, yeah, they're different. So anyway, so now they gotta find who was wearing the Skecher. Yeah, basically now Nancy's son says this is Jeffrey again They told me someone had attacked my mom choked her pushed her down on the floor and stomped on her head That was the cause of death. They said it was one of the worst scenes they'd ever encountered They had no idea what was going on the cops But they definitely needed to speak to Ralph probably since he's the missing entity here They had no idea what was going on with the cops,

but they definitely needed to speak to Ralph probably, since he's the missing entity here. He's the prime suspect, since they were just at court that morning. And they didn't know also, Eleanor's not around, they don't know if she's an accomplice, they don't know if she's a hostage, they have no idea what's going on here.

So they issue a BOLO alert for for them and they are reportedly seen fleeing the area heading towards South Carolina and Then west they're headed west toward the Midwest is all they could figure out. Okay Head on up to South Carolina and then head west was at the 40. What is that? Up there and I don't think they were taking the 40, they were just taking other shit head west. So the sheriff's department said that they're not suspects but they're wanted for questioning.

Really? Yeah, so they have a nationwide manhunt for people who aren't suspects. Right. They're searching for this couple here. A first degree murder warrant is issued for Ralph and detectives want to detain Eleanor as a witness, as a material witness.

So they think that they're trying to flee to Canada. They believe, they think that, they were seen in Maine. Oh. Is why. They were spotted in Maine. Oh. Is why. They were spotted in Maine, and they're believed to be trying to reach Canada. They believe that he is trying to get

to the German embassy in Canada. Okay. And that she is a Native American and may be trying to reach a reservation near Campbellton, New Brunswick in Canada. Sure. To get protection there. She's gonna stay up in New Brunswick?

Oh, she's about to be in for a fucking life-changing experience up there. It's a little different. A little different. Sarah Soda to New Brunswick. All right. But Olly Olly, Oxen Free, Homebase, can't get me though for both of them. That's what they're trying to do. They're both trying to home base each other there.

So the Jerry Springer Show makes a comment saying, quote, this is a terrible tragedy. That's all. And that the show is cooperating with the police investigation in any way they can. She slipped? What are we talking about? Terrible tragedy, we're sorry. Tragedy, like Lori Vallow calls murdering

and dismembering her daughter as a tragedy. She's her daughter. Tragedy. Family tragedy. Family tragedy. Don't turn it into a crime. Jesus, as she said. You know, tragedy. Family tragedy. Family tragedy. Don't turn it into a crime. Jesus, as she said. Ridiculous. So Jerry Springer, who has a home in Sarasota

that he spends much time at, so the Sarasota News Now contacted him, and he says, I don't remember them. I don't know what you're talking about. You don't remember the one group of people that didn't throw fists on your show? That didn't fight. The one that didn't throw fists on the show? The one that didn't.

Nice lady, didn't look like she was from a trailer in the hills who just said, that's fine by and left. Don't remember her, huh? He said, quote, obviously this is a terrible situation and I know that our company is cooperating fully with the police and I hope they find the person who killed her. He said, they said to me, you can't remember who they were and he said quote if the guy was 300 pounds Maybe I'd remember him or if he liked to be thrown on or something a thrown up on or something, but no That's the real weird people. He remembers not the one person who doesn't fight

Okay, come on. Jer. That's bullshit, but he said the name that meant nothing to him Okay, don't know what you're talking about Now this is adding to a larger problem with talk shows that their talk shows were having at the time and that was people were Starting to turn on them and go hey, you're not good for you know society basically. This is bad stuff, and this is the second Talk show murder that's happened in five years. Oh, between that guy that, yeah, that was a bad one. Jenny Jones. 1995 Jenny Jones show guest was killed

after appearing in an episode about secret crushes. And I've seen a documentary on this too. It's a very weird story. Yeah, Jonathan Schmitz was convicted of the 1995 shooting death of Scott Amador After they appeared on the Jenny Jones show about secret crush the guy came on thinking if you don't know if you've never heard it One of the guys the murderer came on thinking that a woman had a secret crush on She was there to meet a crush and it turned out to be his guy friend. Yeah, and so

Not too long after Very evidently gay. Oh, he was, yeah, there was no way that you Incredibly gay. Be around that guy and think that, you know, let's go out for chicks tonight. Let's go find some ladies. Yeah, the second you sit down next to that guy, he's not gonna be like, you're not gonna believe

who has a crush on you. Sarah, you know what I mean, some girl that we know. That's not gonna happen. He sat down, you should be like, oh God. But I mean, rather than just being flattered and saying you're not interested, it escalated higher than that. Why is it so hard?

I don't understand why it can't. Have you ever had a woman like you that you weren't interested in? You just go, I'm not really interested. Yeah, so many times, yeah. It's just, yeah, just not interested, no thanks. You don't have to kill them. I think you're marvelous.

Yeah, I'm not gonna fuck you. It's not gonna be a deal. Now that episode was never broadcast because they were killed before it aired. The murder was before it aired. Amador's family was awarded $25 million by a Michigan jury that found the show and its producer Warner Brothers negligent in his death.

Wow, Michigan has a tie to this too? God damn. Yes, I mean it's weird. Oh, Michigan has a tie to this too? God damn. Yes, so I mean it's weird. Oh, that lawyer will be involved in this too. The lawyer who got the 25 million will be involved in this. He's gonna be Ralph's defense attorney. Okay.

It's interesting. So anyway, obviously the police unraveled the whole mess. They had to go into the court dockets and just go through everything and put together a trail of fucking restraining orders and people breaking up, getting back together and marriages and divorces and deeds and it's just a lot, man. Lease agreements with cohabitants. This is nuts. It's so weird. A spokesman for the sheriff's office did say that Eleanor had a court order saying that she was allowed to be there

To get her shit. So that's one thing they say now Ralph and Eleanor eventually surrender to authorities They flew into Florida. They flew from Maine to Florida. They did go to Maine. Yeah, they went to Maine That's what they were seen. They were held without bail at first now Eleanor claims that They went to Maine, that's what they were seen. They were held without bail at first. Now Eleanor claims that she had no idea what happened to Nancy. She said, she thought they were fleeing from immigration officials, not the cops. Oh.

She said, Ralph said that immigration came for him, so that's why they were fleeing, was to get away from that. So she's like, I didn't know even. That's a good story. That Nancy was dead. According she's like, I didn't know even. That's a good story. And that Nancy was dead. According to Eleanor, Ralph convinced her that Nancy had called immigration on him.

That's why he took off. So Eleanor, was it because you ran up to Marcus saying that he was trying to kill her? Maybe that's why she would have done that? Yeah. So Eleanor believed Ralph was on the run from that threat, not a murder investigation, and she said she didn't know anything about Nancy's death

until days later when her father called her to tell her Nancy was dead. And that's when it began to, that's when the whole thing unfolded for her. So a man punched and stomped a woman to death and then escaped on foot. You picked him up on the street, you didn't have a drop of blood on him.

No, no, no, obviously not. No, actually it's really funny because when they did turn themselves in, little things are there, Ralph is wearing the same pair of blue Skechers that he wore to murder Nancy. The shoes matched the prints perfectly that were found in Nancy's blood and on her face.

So. There has to be blood all over though. She didn't see that? Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm sure he went out and hosed them off or whatever, but they're not getting blood out of them. No. Not enough out of their shoelaces and shit, no way.

So Ralph is gonna plead innocent, not guilty. Oh yeah. Eleanor is not charged at all, and as a matter of fact, is given immunity to all charges in order to answer the detective's questions. They give her immunity to everything Which seems extremely generous Wow like next level generous Sure, you help a guy escape after you that sure seems like you knew about it. We're in on it. It's just

It's just from my point of view turn the tables and and he's going too, you know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. I don't know anything in his German accent. Yeah, and they're like, sure you don't. Sure they're. He's just covered in blood, man. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, let's go fucking dip shit, moving along.

There's just no way he wasn't covered in blood. There's just no way. No fucking way. He's got at least his legs, feet his pant legs all that kind of shit It's got to be covered in blood. So so Jack McGill who's Ellen the Eleanor's lawyer? Said that he wouldn't comments on Comment on the case itself But when they asked about you know threats that she's made in limousines and things like that

He said you get new wives and ex-wives you probably get some statements like that that are not seriously made You know just random threats to kill in public. People do that, you know. So the Jerry Springer show, they hear that they're all getting subpoenaed. The whole staff is getting subpoenaed here. They don't wanna be subpoenaed. So if this was from the documentary too,

one of the producers said the rumors were we were going to be subpoenaed. That's when Richard called me into a meeting and said, I like that Jamaica show idea at a swinger's resort. Everyone's going. He said, I don't want- Everybody gets a plane ticket to hedonism. Yeah, he said, I don't want Richard to get at me,

but if you are going to subpoena someone, all of them were there. That's a great coincidence, we never got subpoenaed. So when the subpoenas were coming, they all went down and spent like a week in Jamaica, the whole fucking crew, and nobody got subpoenaed. So that's interesting. Now Dominic denied that accusation

in a separate thing here. Netflix noted at the end of the doc that the show denied they ever attempted to evade subpoenas, which Looks like they did but left to the country after a really awful thing happened. Yeah fucking real convenient the Dominic said there's a rumor going out that the Company took the entire show and sent us to Jamaica to get Jerry out of the country That is bullshit because you can't take a whole show

and 60 people on a whim and move them. It's impossible. And said that Springer would have quit if the show was somehow responsible for the events that led to Nancy's death. No, he just said he didn't even remember them. He totally blew off the question. What are you talking about?

I don't know. So then Eleanor tells the cops, she's gotta do something for her immunity here. She tells the cops that Ralph was so upset after being banned from the house and banished that he banned, barred and banished from the house that he tried to kill himself by jumping in front of a moving car, but the driver swerved. She said then he'd been drinking that day all day and they all watched the Springer show at the bar and Ralph was drunk They all went to collect the couple's belongings

Nancy and the sheriff's deputies arrived while they were there and Ralph fled through the back of the home while Eleanor and Marcus left in their car when they returned to get him Eleanor said she found him dazed on the street running down the street, picked him up and left. Um, Marcus who found the door barricaded. He was the one who called authorities. Eleanor said she feared that her husband would be arrested for violating the restraining order. So they fled the state looking for a German consulate to help Eleanor was asked by her lawyer in this questioning if she thought her husband had killed his

ex-wife. She said, quote, I can't imagine that he did. No matter everything that's happened, Ralph has always said, I don't hate Nancy. I don't hate that woman. And she also said she didn't see any blood on her husband, which I find extremely hard to believe. Really? Just extremely hard to believe. Just extremely hard to believe. They did find her blood on his shoes and shoe prints matching in her face and floor and

his DNA under her fingernails as well. You know, fighting back. That's your fault. Yeah. Done. I mean, that's all blood here blood there shoe print in your shoes And the blood man you did it your sketcher print fits her face fucking indentation So talk shows now. It's even more under fire with these fucking talk shows

Here is an article called do the show get the treatment. This is from the Times of London, you know, England. And it says, Let's say for the sake of argument that you had slept with your sister's husband. You would probably want to keep quiet about it. You might tell a priest, a therapist, or your closest confidant, but no one else. But if you lived in Hicksville, USA, however, you might take a different approach. You might appear on a North American TV show Ambush your sister with the good news proposition her husband and wait for the punch-up to begin What's wrong with the people who appear on US reality talk shows? Shouldn't they be receiving psychological or psychiatric treatment rather than disporting themselves on continent-wide TV?

Why do they get out of bearing their darkest secrets before what do they get out of bearing their darkest secrets before, what do they get out of bearing their darkest secrets before millions? They say these questions were brought into stark focus when the Nancy Campbell Panett's murder happened just hours after millions had watched her pre-recorded appearance on the Jerry Springer show. But if in America, but if America and the rest of the talk show watching world was shocked by that death,

there's one man who's not surprised Jamie Heisman Huys man a licensed child and family therapist from Florida who has a business called aftercare providing help for the quote Disposable people who appear on US talk shows God dang and that's the best way to describe them for society You're we're literally like run out there, dance around, just ruin your lives, ruin your employment prospects, embarrass yourself in front of your friends, ruin your relationships, punch each other in the face and then when I'm tired of watching you, fuck off so the next people can come out and do it. Disposable. That's the kind of disposable. Yeah, this guy made a career out of these people,

some of whom who do require psychological treatment. Television producers pay him to barter these deals so that tragedies such as this death can be averted. This, what a weird business this guy has. It's the same thing over and over again, which is very interesting here. So yeah, this guy anyway claims that this, he was pitching it to the networks to have a guy like this.

I guess he was on the Geraldo Rivera show at one point to argue with a journalist from the National Enquirer. Why? Which is interesting. Who knows, Geraldo needed somebody to argue with and there was no Klansmen and Black Panthers available that day. National Enquirer. Why? Which is interesting. Eh, who knows? Geraldo needed somebody to argue with and there was no Klansmen and Black Panthers available that day.

No Nazis and fucking, you know, rabbi coalition people. So a father and daughter who were engaged in an incestuous relationship had agreed to appear on the show in disguise and this guy said the disguises were poor, he looked terrible. She looked pretty bad.

And then of all things, they brought out her identical twin sister without any disguise. She looks like that. So things like that happen. This guy says, everyone asks, why does anyone go on talk shows? Most of these people have tried everything to deal with the issue at hand.

There's hospitals all over the country that they can't get into unless they've been on a talk show and unless the treatment centers get the prominence they're seeking. So yeah, they said to get ratings on TV, you need great clinical challenges. The guests have to be very sick to get good ratings. So it can be heinous people. So it can be a heinous couple or trio you bring onto a stage with big problems. That's kind of how it goes. He talks of just all about different people's

going on, you know, all different people he's dealt with basically and the people he's worked for Where I guess the Lisa show hires him so he can do oh boy treat the people afterwards or whatever So Ralph's trial comes up now. Okay, it is a media fucking circus, man. Yeah. Media circus. They say that the Jerry Springer Show shows in Great Britain, which is why we're all here, which is what a British reporter said.

Everybody in England's. He's getting paid for that. Jerry must have been incredibly wealthy. Oh, he made, he actually didn't make that much money because he didn't own that show. That wasn't... Who owned that? They, the production company, they hired him to be the host of the show.

So he didn't make dick compared to Oprah who owns her syndicated show. Or Arsenio or somebody like that who made money. Jerry did not make as much money as everybody else. By far. He may have made 60 to 75 million dollars. Wow! Oprah made billions. See what I'm saying?

Billions, yeah. Different. I think Arsenio made more than that in 1991. Yeah. Because he owned the show and had the syndication rights. He had a salary of eight million a year. That's crazy That is insane most underpaid Oprah. Yeah, he was the most underpaid guy on television by far. He was just the host. That's it

So yeah, it showed over there think about them watching American trailer trash fight each other That's like that would that's like if we were watching watching British people drink tea properly. That's what we look at. That's what they think of us anyway. So they can look at it. So this guy went on to say, it made quite a big story when it happened. German and Japanese television stations have also shown interest. So they're going to be coming.

It's just a big deal. Court TV planned to broadcast parts of the trial live. A Court TV cameraman said the station had three different crews at the courthouse covering various angles of the trial, and they expect the defense attorney, Fieger, a Michigan attorney who defended the assisted suicide advocate, Dr. Kavorkian, to make the trial interesting. He's a big, yeah, he did that. Yeah, that's right, he didn't, he wasn't involved in the lawsuit,

he was involved in Kvorki. I was wrong about that. So this guy said, he'll keep things moving and keep things entertaining. He's entertaining, all right. I'll say that much. So the Sarasota County Courthouse media room, although crowded, was able to hold

about a dozen journalists, and they said, this is so easy for the media. If this would have happened in Bradenton, it would have been a nightmare, because they have, I guess, the facilities for it here. Representing Pannets is Jeffrey Fieger, the Michigan attorney known for defending suicide, Dr. Kovorkian, and suing the Jenny Jones show.

Never mind, he did. He was involved in both. If it's public and he'll get attention, he'll do it. He's into it, yeah. Fieger said he's gonna call Jerry Springer himself as a witness. He already said, I don't remember these people. So, good luck.

Fieger says police have accused the wrong man. Oh really? Mistake in identity, man, that's all it is. Really? Another German guy running away with bloody footprints. That's fine He said the detectives decided Ralph was the killer immediately and never looked for another suspect because his shoe prints were in her face I think we got about yeah What are we talking about here while figure just declined to say who he thinks the killer is

He did say he wanted to defend Ralph to ensure the German citizen had adequate representation. He said, I think it's important we show the rest of the world that we really are a paragon of freedom and the judicial system is not like what Mr. Bush wants to set up these military tribunal kangaroo courts. This is a good, you know, because this is a time, you know, we're not looking that great on the world stage. Let's look better on the world stage by letting this guy go. They'll love us for that. Yeah He remained a critic of outlandish television talk shows this lawyer also saying they provoke violence and should be held responsible for endangering people

But he insists that's not the case here. He said these shows do have the potential to provoke violence They are really playing with fire. I don't know if the evidence is going to show that the show is a provocative element in this killing. In any case, Ralph Pannits didn't do this killing. Didn't do it. So someone who saw them on Jerry Springer decided to come over and kill Nancy because she didn't fight enough.

One of the producers, maybe. Nancy's family's attorney said Nancy was the victim of domestic violence. One of our concerns is that this has been about domestic violence and that that message doesn't seem to get through to anybody. He said that the family is still considering a civil lawsuit against the show, but wants to wait until after the criminal case is over to decide. Jesus Christ. They also said that the show had a responsibility to check for a history of domestic violence before putting people in a confrontational situation. Which, I mean, that makes sense. They love confrontation. I know, I think they look for domestic violence

in terms of they'll be great guests, they fight at home when no one's encouraging them to. Imagine if we put them out here. They said certainly there should be heightened security or scrutiny. They should ask if there is a history of domestic violence and if the answer is yes, they should not be allowed on the show. This lawyer also says I'll defend Mr. Springer's right to put whatever he wants on the show. But with those rights come some responsibilities.

Now here are the different cases for the prosecution of the defense. The prosecutor's case is this dipshit killed his wife That's that's it came over killed her. Yeah, the defense is This is wild Someone else Committed violence upon her, but that's not even what killed her. You know how she died what heart attack? But that's not even what killed her. You know how she died what heart attack Sometimes they make your face explode man all the bones pop right off your heart. It's a really high blood pressure

Boom, it'll pop you the prosecution in their opening. This trial is amazing Okay, the prosecution told the jurors a little bit of a different story than that Describing Ralph as a black belt intruder who brutally beat and stopped poor Nancy to death. Yeah. In his opening remarks, Charlie Roberts, the prosecutor, spoke to the mostly female jury. That's not good for Ralph, I don't think, in this particular case, being his womanizing and his domestic violence and for 40 minutes detailing his theory of the crime. Nancy Campbell was confronted by her husband, this is a quote, in her home.

Ralph Pannetz used his martial arts skills and beat and stopped Nancy to death. Said that Pannetz choked Nancy with such strength as to break bones in her neck. Also said that Ralph was angry because earlier in the day, a judge had granted Nancy possession of the house, and also then the Jerry Springer show was on. She said this prosecutor said her only defense were her fingernails. Ralph Pannet stomped on her head with such force that his shoe left a tread wear impression on Nancy's face

and separated the bones of the face from the bones of the skull. Also says her fingernails contained DNA that was shown to be consistent with that of Ralph and that he had blood on his shoes and holy shit I have common sense. I mean obviously what's going on here. So he said one of the major pieces of evidence was the pair of shoes he was wearing when he turned himself in. He said Ralph leaves numerous bloody shoe impressions around his ex-wife's body as well as on her face.

Blood on the defendant's right shoe matched the victim's blood. Expert testimony will show individualized wear patterns on the shoes matched the specific wear patterns that show up in Nancy Campbell's blood on the kitchen floor. Okay. Roberts told the jury that the morning of the day that Nancy died, she'd gone to court begging for the judge, begging the judge for protection from Ralph. They said, you'll hear her own words in a tape of the hearing telling the judge that the defendant had, quote, chased me with a knife and made threats about taking my life.

He also said another witness will testify that Ralph said, quote, she'll die someday and the house will be mine. Wow. The defense takes a different approach. Do they? It's hours long, over two hours for an opening statement, which you're playing with fire there. I mean, two hours of heart attack and somebody else? Come on.

This is America. If you're putting something up for two hours, it better have transformers and car chases and shit, or else no one is watching that shit. Nobody's paying attention. Even the Springer show was an hour long. And that was Hillbillies trying to murder each other. And we still were like, that's an hour.

I'm tired of that. So wow. They said, this is from a newspaper article, in a scenario befitting the tabloid television backdrop of the Jerry Springer murder trial. Defense attorneys for Ralph pannets painted an unsolved mystery that they say involves a setup a missing right shoe, a botched police probe and an uninvestigated suspect covered in blood who they claim is the real killer of Nancy.

He this is sillier than OJ. Wow, this is crazy. So in a two hour plus opening statement that put some courtroom observers to sleep, Fieger countered the prosecution's allegations of what happened July 24th, 2000, and pointed the finger at Marcus Panitz. It's the nephew who did it. Wow, who was a key witness against his uncle. Fieger said that witnesses saw the nephew dead drunk at the time Campbell, Campbell had died or Nancy had died. Marcus is the one who called police

saying his quote aunt was hurt. The process, the prosecutor has made a horrible mistake. The evidence in this case is circumstantial. No, there's DNA evidence, but we'll get to that. Circumstantial DNA, James. No, no, he's got his own idea of what DNA is, and it's hilarious. That's wild. So the evidence in this case is circumstantial. There's no witness and no proof. He said not only that he did not kill Nancy, but that she wasn't even murdered. No? Bones broken in her neck she was strangled so hard and her face stopped to unrecognizability. This guy says, quote, diabetes, obesity and heart disease caused her death.

Unbelievable. Are you the balls to go, she's just a fat and lazy, that's why she died. Her fucking head is smashed. What are you talking about? Her face tried to leave and get a job because she was so lazy. Lazy, that is insane.

He went on to say she wasn't murdered, she was engaged in some fight, then fell and had a heart attack. Unbelievable. Then he told the jury that DNA isn't consistent enough. Not the DNA in this case, DNA in general. Is that right?

They said that the DNA under Nancy's fingernails was statistically more likely to come from a Hispanic male than from Ralph Pannets. Here it is. The quote of the day, everybody. DNA is just a fancy word for a guess. Huh? Everybody taking that in. That's a word for a guess. Two word. We're never speechless. No.

That's insane. A fancy word for a guess. By 2001, we all knew what DNA was, man. That is crazy. DNA stands for do not assume. Yeah. If Nancy touched any of Ralph's clothing, he would have his DNA on her hands,

not under her fingernails. No, under her fingernails. Do not assume. What the fuck? Just a guess. Then they go on to disparage Nancy, telling the jury that Nancy had lied to the judge about her fear of Ralph,

just trying to get, nefariously get him out of the house so she could have it all for herself. Yeah, so she could just be lazy in there all alone. That's right, they said that his nephew, and they wanted to get rid of not only him, but his nephew and his new wife, and to have the home all to herself. Quote, she abused the legal system

to punish these poor people. Oh my God. Or these people, not poor, I put that in myself. Then about the shoe prints, he says, Fieger tells the jury that all 19 of the shoe prints around the victim's body are of the right shoe and that there are no shoe prints leading away from the crime scene.

Quote, did he fly away? There's something really strange about these footprints it would be anatomically impossible for a person not to leave the left shoe print the shoe prints are showed per showed perfect impressions or imprints in blood at various distances from the body this would be impossible unless you use the shoe like a stamp and continually dip it in blood. So they're saying the cops took his shoe, which by the way, he had on his foot still. Yeah. And borrowed it to make shoe prints in the crime scene.

Yeah. And then he got in the car and I don't know how what how you even they said, hey, what kind of shoes does Ralph wear? Skechers? Okay. We got and then we can take care of that. That is wild. So Fieger also told the jury that Panitz didn't have a drop of blood on his clothing or in the car that he rode in for four days, but he promised to show the jury pictures of Marcus Panitz.

His pants legs splattered in blood. It's all his fault. Now the prosecution calls a witness to testify that he had seen Ralph at a restaurant that evening and he did not appear drunk. I think he's also German. I think that- He can absorb it and do it well.

I think the Germans know how to hold their beer. You know what? 10 ice houses isn't gonna put a German down. That ain't gonna do it. No, not at all. They drink a heavier- Yeah, they brush their teeth with ice. houses aren't gonna, is it gonna put a German down? That ain't gonna do it. No, not at all. That is water. They drink a heavier, a heavier. Yeah, they brush their teeth with ice.

Yeah, that's pussy shit. You drink that on the basketball court instead of Gatorade, you just put that in a water bottle and squirt it on ya. Now, nephew Marcus is on the stand for more than eight hours. They grill him. He spoke through a German interpreter, which must have been a lot of fun for the jury to. Oh yeah.

Eight hours of German to English, and oh God. And not only that, he told all the stuff that we said earlier that he said about going to 7-Eleven and coming in, he just testified to all of that. Ralph testifies in his own defense. He's gonna try to charm the jury, because as we know, nothing's more charming than Germans. They're real cuddly and warm,

and really will win your heart. Let me tell you. They do charm. I don't know how, but somehow they figure it out. They're not real cuddly, though. They're not like... Cuddly like a cactus. Ralph, he said, quote,

we just wanted to tell, talking about the Jerry Springer Show, said we just wanted to tell talking about the Jerry Springer show said we just wanted to tell her that We were married and leave us alone what happened on the show. We never intended Okay He also said he learned of his ex-wife's death days later after he had left the state when when his wife's father Called and told them about it. That was it. He said, I was extremely in shock. This is the German accent. I was extremely in shock. I could not believe what happened.

They said he appeared confident and relaxed on the stand. He denied hurting his wife, but he also testified that he doesn't remember much of what happened that afternoon until he woke up in a car being driven north on I-95 by his wife the next day. I don't really remember much before that, he said. Interesting. He told the jurors he felt guilty about disrupting Marcus' life and that's why he started drinking

several 16-ounce bottles of Icehouse beer soon after the court hearing when his wife and nephew cleared, while his wife and nephew cleared the belongings. He said that he, this is, here it is, it's coming up, he testified that he drank another four to six bottles of beer when he and his nephew went to the neighborhood bar to watch the Springer Show. Later, switching to rum and cokes, when he started buying rounds of drinks for a stranger

Who he believed was Chevy Chase? It testified to this he said he said I Switched to rum and Cokes because I wanted to hang out with this guy with Chevy Chase So he continuously bought quote Chevy Chase rounds of drinks So he continuously bought, quote, Chevy Chase rounds of drinks. Not Chevy Chase. Kinda looked like the guy. Because he looked like Chevy Chase, apparently.

I don't wanna talk about your career, so I'll just buy your drinks for you. I'm a good guy. That's amazing. He's so drunk he thought Chevy Chase was hanging out in his shithole neighborhood bar. How blind drunk were you that you thought a man from SNL was sitting next to you?

Holy shit, is that Fletch over there? What's going on? What's happening? That is not Chevy Chase. The moose out front should have told you. Oh yeah, exactly. The show came on at the bar, but Ralph said he never saw it. He said, I can't remember the show at all I must have fell asleep if you fell asleep at the bar your ass would have been outside

Yeah, they'd have tossed you. I was a bouncer. Sleepers are the first people that are out. They're gone. They're done. Out You're done. Number one. You're too drunk to be in here number two You're not buying anything more cuz you're sleeping fuck off and as somebody sleeps the deeper They sleep the more comfortable they get you're gonna be on the fucking floor sprawled out I'll be on the floor getting soon get out farting ice house oh God snoring

Ruling Enjoy 50 cents new album get out get the fuck out Enjoy 50 Cent's new album, get out. Get the fuck out. So Ralph testified at some point that day, he ended up at his ex-wife's home and vaguely remembers lying on a bed while he was there. The next thing, quote, "'The next thing I recall was sleeping

"'and Marcus and Eleanor saying something "'about the police are here and I have to hide.' He said that he also has vague recollections of Eleanor telling him to get in the car. He said he woke up the next morning as she was driving north through Georgia. He said that they didn't learn of his ex-wife's death until Eleanor called her father

who told them a woman at the house had been slain and that they were wanted. Ralph said he cried at the news of his ex-wife's death, adding that he still had feelings for her. Yeah, I don't want her dead. Fuck. He said, I had a very deep emotion for Nan. I couldn't believe she was actually dead. Now, cross-examination, he denied that he was upset about being forced to move. Said, that's fine. I was okay about it.

I didn't care. Yep. That was a long one to go. He said, you know who it really pissed off though Nancy Marcus oh that's who had pissed off he is literally blaming Marcus he's blaming Marcus yeah he said that's who really that really made him mad I'll tell you what so they first it was first degree murder charges here but they end up dropping,

somewhere in the case here, they drop the first degree for a second degree murder. So that's what he's going to the jury for, is second degree murder. Now the jury, it's 10 days of a trial, 18 hours of deliberation. I don't exactly know what they're talking about for 18 fucking hours.

I can't, I mean what, like fishing this weekend? Like what are they talking about in there for 18 hours? I don't get this. I don't know, can you believe he's wearing Skechers? Yeah. Skechers and Chevy Chase you guys, he's a moron. Those Germans are fucking weird. They see Chevy chase and everyone Oh every American looks like Chevy chase to you. Is that what you're telling me? Great. Thanks

Several hours by the several days 18 hours over several days. I think it's four days of deliberation, which is crazy. He is found guilty of second degree murder. Of course. During sentencing, he doesn't attend his own sentencing. Stop it. Doesn't want to hear it. Nope, doesn't want to hear it. He's like Lori Vallow going, I don't want to hear it.

Can we just, except he doesn't agree to stipulate. Awaiting my responses from Chevy Chase. Yep. He watched TV, he watched the sentencing on TV in a holding cell. Eleanor said that he was on a hunger strike to protest his confinement in jail. Oh yeah. I don't want to get into either. Okay. Go ahead and don't eat then. Start yourself.

I don't give a shit. See if I give a fuck. Yeah. Knock yourself out. Fuck do I care? Nancy's sons, Gary and Jeffrey, and Nancy's sister, all asked for a life sentence. Yeah. Here, they said, he's a violent, angry, manipulative man

who should not be allowed to enter society again. That's Gary, son Gary. The judge does not like Ralph. No. To say the least. Oh no. Not a fan? Not a fan.

The judge holds up a bloody picture of Nancy's face for all the court to see. Oh fuck! And says, Ralph Panitz, this is how she died. You know you're in deep shit at that point. It's for the cameras so he could see it in his little cell there. Yeah.

I sentence you to the only just sentence in this case you sir may fuck off life without parole Wow Keep on keeping on he this judge had the flexibility in second degree. He could have gotten as little as 20 years As little as that's it that's so That's a lot, but it's not life without. No, yeah. He could have got 20 years, which are out in 10 or 12 rather than even 14, it's better than never, never,

never, never, never, ever, ever, ever, ever. So the judge went on to say that this is the maximum sentence allowed by law for second degree murder, saying he showed no remorse, held up the photograph and said that a life sentence is only just a sentence. And then said the judge also had harsh words for Jerry Springer too. Which is amazing. The judge said the trio were quote manipulated by the show to increase their humiliation

and it was reprehensible. To Jerry Springer and his producers, I ask you, are ratings more important than the dignity of human life? The answer's yes to them. Yeah, dignity doesn't mean anything to them. What's dignity? Then said, shame on you, shame on you. I mean, you could've said worse.

Can't sentence them to anything, but you can call them, you're a dick. Eleanor, after this is all over, they said could be seen smiling and laughing before and after the hearing, and said, quote, we don't agree with this verdict. We don't think it was a fair trial. We really expect this will be overturned

and we'll have a new trial. Jerry Springer Show, here's a statement from them. They said in the statement, neither the show nor its producers were in any way responsible. They said, quote, this murder transpired nearly three months after the taping of an episode and happened the day it aired, you fucking asshole. You can't ignore that.

After the taping, who gives a shit? Yeah, it aired, that's the point, and was pointed out during the criminal proceedings many events occurred that were totally unrelated to the taping of the show I think it definitely escalated shit though. It certainly aggravated a volatile situation Fuck yeah, Eleanor disagrees though Eleanor Accuses the show of putting her husband and ex-wife in the same hotel room for a night so that there would be a sexual interlude between them.

Eleanor said that the encounter fueled Nancy's obsession with Ralph, is what she said. By the way, there's later on, there's an interview with Nancy's sister, or not Nancy's, I'm sorry, Eleanor's sister, where Eleanor's like, yeah, the show sent the two of them together and put them in the same room.

What do you think's gonna happen? I mean he is an adult Huh So that means you're she has to stick it in her I guess every room that you're in with a woman James You have to fuck them. That's the fuck them if you're an adult With the way she did she was like he is an adult like yeah, what? That's wild the defense lawyer is now sued mm-hmm. Who do you think sued him the prosecution? No? Did Ralph do it nope? Oh? Sure, what?

Sure, sued him have you ever heard of this before and for almost 600 episodes, okay? because during the trial, this is amazing here, during the trial, he'll have to return to Florida now for litigation stemming, he was served Friday with a slander lawsuit filed by one of the jurors, a juror named Owen Stacy,

called a juror named Owen Stacy, quote, a Nazi and a creep you can't say that Right after the verdict was announced outside the court. That's what he said that guy on the jury this one gave his name Said he's a Nazi and a creep Wow, okay, then why the fuck didn't you strike him then you could have? Here beforehand you could have had him gone Questioned by the media about the lawsuit. He professed to be unconcerned He said I would say the definition of mental illness

is suing Jeff Fieger. He used his name in the third person. The definition. I know, it's easy to hate lawyers, but this guy is like. He's the worst. He is a guy, I mean, he's like, come on, give me a lawyer, that's right.

Why the, you know. Yeah. What do you call it? Do hot. What do you call me drowning in You know. Yeah. What do you call it? Do, do ha. What do you call me drowning in the ocean? Huh? What do you call it?

It's too fucking bad lawyer joke. So he just says Romstein all day about himself. All day. He then the lawyer filed his own defamation suit against 12th Circuit Chief Judge Thomas Gallin. The suit is in a response to a letter by Gallin published in the newspaper. In it Gallin said Fieger should be punished for calling the juror, calling two different jurors names.

Oh. Yeah, so, Gal and filed a complaint against Fieger with the Florida Bar, and the officials of the bar have launched an inquiry. It's a mess. Then, the children of Nancy file a lawsuit against the Jerry Springer Show. Okay.

Programmed, you know, denies any responsibility. Jeffrey said, the whole situation just erased the whole middle part of my life I dealt with it for the last 20 years now here. I am 24 years later still talking about that's what he said in 2025 Or 2024 he said it has been a pretty big impact. It's hard to trust people anymore sure 2000 that was in 2002. They sue in 2003. They are going to drop the lawsuit. They dropped the lawsuit. It was for twenty five million dollars.

They settled for nothing basically. Oh, they got nothing out of it. Nice. Yeah. Remember that big giant reward that the Jenny Jones jury gave out? Well, a Michigan appeals court threw out the twenty nine point three million dollar verdict against the Jenny Jones jury gave out, while a Michigan appeals court threw out the $29.3 million verdict against the Jenny Jones show, saying the program had no legal duty to protect a guest

who was slain after appearing on the show. And the family lawyer for Nancy's family said the Jones ruling was one of several issues that led us to get the matter resolved. Yeah, they don't have any responsibility to protect them, but they do have a responsibility to- To not make it worse. Yeah, to not-

Exacerbate a fucking, yeah. Don't fucking make a situation worse that you know is already volatile. Yeah, not to step on somebody's stubbed toe, probably. And the way Jenny like interviewed that too, it was so gross. Oh yeah, oh Oh, yeah, that was it was weird What do you think? How are you feeling? You know what? Giggling and shit everyone giggling toxic douche. Yeah

Man, so they dropped the suit in a settlement agreement the show's attorneys agreed not to counter sue for malicious prosecution They said quote it was a walk away, which means they walked away. Everybody walked away. That was that. That's interesting, man. Very, very interesting. I guess Eleanor had responded to, this is the teaser she called. Remember they'd be like, if you're experiencing this, this, or this, call the Jerry Springer Show.

Is there somebody who wants to disturb your relationship? Call Jerry. That's all they, oh boy. That was the question, oh boy. That was the question she responded to. Yep, that is fucked up. Jeffrey said, I don't think they've ever been held

accountable for anything. People just watching the show and think, oh, this is normal, it's not. All right, then, 2010. You know the show prison wives yeah, okay Second episode of prison wives is all Eleanor is that she married him They stay they're still together no fucking way. This is 2010. They were still together. Yeah Eleanor says that the squabble and the publicity had generated influence the outcome of the trial by the way

She says about on this she says I wish that we had never gone on that show meaning Springer I believe my husband is innocent and I will never give up on trying to get his sentence reduced Now on the show they show her by the way on this show. She is not doing well Eleanor No, she's living in a tiny, shitty trailer. Yeah. And the park is like, the trailers are like three feet from each other. Nice.

Like it looks like a giant Like a storage place. gravel pit. Yeah, there's no like driveways up to them, half of them. It's maybe there are, I don't know, but it looks like a self-storage place. Yeah. And she talks about how she can barely afford food and like they show her making this

really bleak fucking dinner. Wow. It's not good dude, she is not doing well. They show her like talking to a friend of hers outside and she's like, you know, cause this was 2010 so there was a bad recession at the time still from 2007 and they were like, you know, the job market sucks and she was doing

a, she worked as a sales rep for an online college. It's a telemarketing for college scammers in other words. Telemarketing for something probably barely accredited. If it is at all. A lot of those, that was 2010, that was the golden age of those schools before they all had to pay a billion dollars in fucking fines and shit. So she said that there was a risk that the company was closing down and she wasn't gonna have her job anymore

and her friends telling her to get out and look for a job and she's just depressed. It says on the show she's in constant financial turmoil. But she says, Ralph says he's not guilty, I'm sorry, Ralph says, they cut to Ralph in prison and he says, he's not guilty and I'm sorry Ralph says they cut to Ralph in prison He says he's not guilty and he says I don't deserve this He's a victim Wow, and then she says quote

I love him dearly and maybe someday I'll get to see him walk out of prison a free man That would be the absolute happiest moment of my life. Oh Sure, Ralph says my specific struggle is that I, is that I cannot be for my wife. Oh, I cannot be for my wife. He says, yeah. When she needs, I think the word there is missing. Yeah. Be there for when she, what does that be for to sting you silly to make, silly. To make honey, silly.

When she needs me the most financially, this is the greatest struggle I have. You're in life without parole. Her financial, now she's. Fuck about your financial situation, you're never getting out. But she supports him in there. She gives him money and all that,

she says he doesn't have anyone else to give him money so I have to support both of us. Who cares? She does apparently. Crazy. Ralph says, I thought back, this is they ask Ralph about Nancy in 2010. He says, I thought back then that she was just wicked, wicked evil and trying to destroy what she can't have. She tried to destroy Eleanor. You killed this lady and you're saying this. And they claim that they went out on the show, they only went on Springer because it's the only recourse they had

because their life was turned upside down by Nancy's stalking. That's what they're saying now. Ralph is in the Polk Correctional Facility, currently. I think he's been there the whole time. Eleanor and Ralph are still together. Still. He has been in jail for 25 fucking years. She's still with him.

What a, is she an angel or is she an asshole? I can't tell. She is a glutton for punishment, a bit of a dummy I think. Perhaps she deserves this. Maybe this is just very fitting and awesome. We don't know what she did before. Maybe this is karma. So I don't know don't know what she did before. Maybe this is karma.

Yeah. So I don't know, but if you go to her Facebook profile, it's only pictures of the two of them in prison. Really? You know, those prison pictures where you're allowed to take a picture of them against that block wall. Against that mural wall. Yeah, that block mural wall with a couple

of paper palm trees taped to the wall on the sides of it So it like makes a little fuck very colorful flowers behind you makes like a red carpet fucking Photo frames both of you. It looks nice. Oh my god She lives and living in that little trailer while keeping up with Ralph This is what they said and the prison wives thing. Simplicity and scarcity are now the norm for Ellie. She lives paycheck to paycheck, has very little social life and no children. She sits in a depressing little trailer waiting to go see this scumbag in prison every week. That's all she does. That's it. Um,

she still stands by Ralph continues to support him financially visits him every weekend Wow, and she says he did not get a fair trial Eleanor insists that law enforcement didn't look for any suspects She believed they rushed to blame Ralph simply because they recognized him from the Jerry Springer show You know just he's super famous. That's all no it's cuz he wears sketchers, and that's what was on her face That's it and her blood was alsochers, and that's what was on her face. That's it. And her blood was also on his shoes and her fingernail DNA. The reality in Eleanor's eyes is that they pinned the crime on him without fully investigating the possibilities.

Her support for him hasn't wavered. She remains convinced that Ralph deserves a chance to be repatriated to Germany, hoping that a transfer there might lead to a lesser sentence. But he's not going anywhere. He's been in there 25 years, and he's going to continue to be there. I think there you go. That is Sarasota, Florida, and the Jerry Springer Show, and one twisted fucked up ass story.

I'll tell you what. So shitty. Such a shitty story. If you like that show and shitty stories in general, please, please get on whatever app you're on and please give us five stars. Do it. Whatever you're listening on. It helps so fucking much.

Drive us up the charts. It takes like 30 seconds to do and it helps the show immensely. So be a mensch and do that. Get after it. All right. Do that. Also, shutupandgivemurder.com. You get your tickets for live shows if you're listening

to this on the early release and it's within the two-week window of april 19th after that you can still get the virtual live show costumes bongs sasquatch it's all crazy story you can't miss it story has it all people so check that out and also get your tickets for regular live shows, especially Chicago at the Riviera, May 17th, we can't wait. St. Louis was sold out the night before, so you guys get in there and get your tickets and sell this bad boy out for us if you would, and get tickets for the rest of the year too,

because a lot of those shows are selling out. Like Portland in November sold out, Big Theater sold out. Get your tickets. Grand Rapids, San Diego, all these. So raise get your tickets Grand Rapids San Diego all these so please get your tickets now shut up and give me murder Dot-com follow on social media at small town murder on Instagram at small town pod on Facebook patreon.com slash crime in sports

P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash crime in sports. You get all the bonus material you could possibly want there. All you gotta be is $5 a month or above and you're gonna get a back catalog that would choke an elephant, hundreds, hundreds. It'll crush a woman's head like a German's foot. Hundreds of back episodes you've never heard before.

Load under a sketcher. Like a German sketcher. So yeah, yeah, you get all that back catalog. You get new ones every other week after that. And so binge on those, then get new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. You get it all this week for crime and sports. We're going to talk about college coach sex scandals. They are a horny boy. A plentiful. A plenty, horny a plenty.

For their students, for other people, and just dorm faculty, they're all married, they're all cheating, it's crazy. We'll talk about that. Then for Small Town Murder, we're gonna talk about some death row last meals, and not the real famous ones. We went over those about five, six years ago on Patreon,

if you go back through the archives, but some more kind of under the radar ones, just because it's interesting. It is. It doesn't have to be a serial killer. I just want to know what Joe Schmo ate for his last meal. It's psychologically fascinating to me. So I can't wait to see that.

That'll be fun. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out. Right fucking now. Jimmy, please hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who never ever wear Skechers while they murder. Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producers are Martin Marufo, Katherine Domerod.

Katherine is, it's her birthday and she's 70 and she loves us. Thank you Katherine for being a part of this. Well we love you back Katherine. Thank you so much. That's amazing. Happy birthday. Anne Marie Fitzgerald, Judy Anderson, Brittany Robertson, and Gary Howard. Thank you all so much for doing this with us.

Thank you, Gary. Thank you, guys. Thank you. It's great to have you. Other producers this week, Ryan Dempsey, Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Melissa Warburton, Alexander Whalen, Janice Hill. Happy Hour checking in in Raymer, Colorado, Colorado Stephanie H Ryan Stasiak Jake would know last name Anakin Sela Sarah Fowler Talon Reed David Schaefer Deanna Dina maybe Fleming Brie Mack

Stephanie would know last name David lista Kate K and eight Lisa would know last name Robin would know last name Bob Higer Catherine would know last name Christ Bob Hyger. Catherine would know last name, Christie Ingram, Dynamo Prince, Fadre Morph, Easter, Easter Wester. Okay, Easton Weston, is that right? Is that a real name? No way. Shit, I don't even know, maybe. Renee would know last name, Martina Renee also.

Marcus Van Zee, Bonnie Rindal, Gypsy Pliss, Plee maybe? Joel Sherney, Tashirney, Mickey Kirstein, Kirstein, Rachel Fields, Molly Ott, Victoria Mullen, Allison Sealis, what? No way, Aweira Olaiwa. She get to going, boy. You gotta grow, Allison, go get after it.

Kristy Jamison, Steph C., Abby Thompson, Liliana Pierce, Heather Salcedo, Daisy Dowd, maybe Doe, Christian Senior, Miranda Connors, Beef Supreme, gross, kind of, I don't know. Is it gross? Christina Brown. Beef burrito. That's decent.

Otherwise, gross. Put some sour cream in that bad boy. Takara Lion, Takara? Takara, right? Probably. Kayla Marquardt, Karen Smith, Nicole Wolf, Kelsey would know that same, John Karpinski, Karpinski. Hampton Coney, it's Karpinski. I'm...

Karpinski. Matthew Mancioni, I like that guy. Sheila, what is this? Coin? Corey Pregler, W Pro? Cory Pregler W pro prow prue pralow Willow Schottmer Leanne Barry Brian Rector barely

Joe siret Melissa Joe Corrine would know last name Trevor geist geist perhaps Sherry Steed Kindwall kind Rebecca Hamond, Ashley Griffin, Diane with no last name, Deborah Ware, Kerry Black, Michelle with no last name, Anna Bush, Shayna Rainish, Jay, the letter J, Hugh Janus, James, he's a big fan, Hugh's a wonderful guy, truly his first name, 100% a real name.

But he likes everything. You throw anything at him, it sticks. You know what I mean? What do you want? Yeah, he's got a big appetite. Angela Moreth, Narej Joshi, Neeraj Joshi, Joshi? Fuck. Salie Nimigata?

We'll take it. Nimigata? Wow. I don't, I'm terrible at this. I'm the least cultured person on the floor. Samantha Bradshaw, Cupcake Kitten Explosion, I can do that. Melissa with no last name. Leslie Babcock Banshee Barushi. Alexander with no last name.

Cookie Davis. Michelle McGarigal? Julia Paltridge. Partridge with an L, Anette Crisman, Chrisman. Okay, there was a guy in high school that I went to school with James, his name was Jimmy Crisman and I was Jimmy Wisman and it was the most annoying fucking thing on the planet. But he lived real crazy, so he would like do, and they're like, I heard about this, you did, I was like, what?

I was like, how would you know that? What about this you did. I was like, what? I was like, how would you know that? What the hell are you talking about? Then I just owned it after a little while. Yeah, just started. Just take his stories. Living his life. Fuck him.

I'm living his life, why not? More interesting than mine. David W. Janel Steckl Steckl Steewa. Steckl Steewa. Sheckl Steewa. Yeah. Sheckl Steewa? I donl Steewa. Right, yeah. Sheckl Stewa? I don't know. That's all I got. R.J. King.

Chris Sugden. Shugden. Angie Urbana. Jason Bradley. Brooke Mortenson. Kimmy would know last name. Kelly would know last name. Jessica Patterson.

Vanessa Feo. Sean Hon. Hon maybe. Caleb Simwally. Simwally. Natasha with a J. What the fuck? Natasha Varney with a J. You figure out where it is. But I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Caleb Simwiley, Simwally, Natasha with a J. What the fuck? Natasha Varney with a J. You figure out where it is. Michelle Holloway, Lauren Davy, Gabby perhaps, Ginger with no last name, Grant Baker, Daniel Gibson, Fish Twinkies, gross.

Bree Oun, Oney, One, Oney, McKenzie, Ramadaka, Haram, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, One, Colaba Tista Colaba Colaba Tista Bridget would know last name Nick spaghetti arms Cameron Carol Ward medical procedure he did Natalie McHenry Kim Hill Katie Robinson mark w Kyle rotor Rosa Mount Mowbray Mowbray

Emily touch it to Shay. Oh, it's touch it that is touch it Donna Touché? It's Touch It. That is Touch It. Any way you shake it. Donate's Haley. Talley perhaps. Emily Touch It. Chris Rocano. Cade Shulman. James Morgan. Aloysius B. Greg. Jennifer Brant. Rogue would know last name. Mommy of Twins. Rodney Comer. Madison. Anna Chacheria, Carrico, Hannah Camp, Kayla with no last name, Amy with no last name, Nina Petrikyan, Ryan Kay, Alyssa Brown, Kay Smith, Megan Brenna, Alan Newman, Devin with no last name, Jamie Justice, Lana with no last name. Dan with no last name. Jamie Orheim Augusto, Emma Carvin, Calvin, Joe Crystal, Casey, Cassie perhaps, Coats, Angela Peel, Pyle, gross, we'll go with Peel. Mo Capacola rides again. Yeah, let's give her the benefit of it. Capacola, who's got Capacola? Don Thorpe, Lance Brooks, Home Ward, Carla Baker, Brenda Davy, Chris would know last

name, Maya Hicks, Sarah Hager, Chris Devlin, Michael Cockleman, oh boy, Brandy Collins, Beatrice Anderson, Alyssa R., Kate Nash, Charity would know last name, Molly would know last name, Zach Krueger, Kiki would know last name. Taylor Brady. Jamie Lund. Sammy Grange. Joseph Richie. Amy, Amy, Amy, what? Docket. Monica Cocky. Goachie perhaps? Trevor would know last name. Greg Bates. Allison Mendez. Melendez. Jerry Jones got two of these. So we're rolling on Dallas Cowboys money now. Well, I was going to say, when you're wildcatting around and buying football teams. He probably signed up and then didn't realize he got one and then got another. Probably, well thank you. If you meant to do it.

You're a good man now Jerry. Yeah, now we like you. Didn't like you before. Betsy with no last name, Haley Gregory, Mark Moore, Nathan Swenson, Jesse Plotkin, Lynn Kapp, Jim McCoy, Jacqueline Michael, Michelle perhaps, Robbie Arnold, Tracy Stilwell, Julie H, Brandon Alex, Mary Laboon Morocco, Stephanie Hale, perhaps Haley Tonette Brown, Brittany Bach, Tyrell Battle, Zachary Gibson, Katie would know last name in every patron in the patrons of this show. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, everybody.

You're unbelievable. We can't thank you enough, honestly. We tried, I don't even know what words to use. Thank you for all that you do for us. 100 million is a crazy number. Yeah, that's not money, that's listens on Spotify. That's streaming. You guys, just from Spotify, you guys listen to this so much

and we can't thank you enough for changing our lives and making this viable and fun and we're gonna keep going. Let's go, James. Let's keep going. Can't fucking do it. Let's do it, let's keep going. But until then, and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye! If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. I'm Brian Dyer.