Small Town Murder - #594 - Family Murder Spree - Chugiak, Alaska

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

This week, in Chugiak, Alaska, a senseless murder is quickly solved, when one of the participants goes to police, and spills all the details. The problem is, this only leads to more murder, when the killers seek revenge on the one who squealed. An elaborate plan is hatched, among a family of criminals, leading to a huge explosion, and the wrong people being killed. Luckily, someone in the conspiracy had a conscience, and unravels the whole thing!!Along the way, we find out that in Alaska, you are just as likely to be eaten by a bear, as you are to be killed in any other way, that families who kill together, don't necessarily stay together, and that pregnant ladies named "Peggy" probably shouldn't participate in murders!!New episodes every Thursday & Friday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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He ignited a cultural firestorm. Is the system working or is it time for a reckoning? I'm Jesse Weber. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. ["Wonderful Music"] Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express! Yay and choo choo! Oh yay indeed Jimmy, yay indeed.

My name is James Petragallo, I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us all aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. We got some crazy stuff for you this week, It's up in Alaska and people move there to hide out and apparently murder each other. So we'll find out all about that. It's pretty wild stuff.

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All clear the lungs here arms to the sky and let's all shout Let's do this everybody, okay, let's go on a trip shall we up and give me murder. Let's do this everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's go on a long trip. We're going up to Alaska this week. This is, ooh, Chugiak? I've looked it up and I've heard

three different pronunciations. I've heard Chugiak, I've heard Chugiak, C-H-U-G-I-A-K, Alaska. So. That's a very thirsty yak. Yeah, I tried, I really did. I looked it up, I really tried to get it, but it's people, it's apparently a disputed pronunciation.

This is down in southern Alaska. It's kind of a suburb of Anchorage, basically. It's about a half hour to Anchorage, about six and a half hours to our last Alaska episode, McCarthy, Alaska, which was episode 533, Mountain Massacre, and it was a wild one, because all the Alaska ones are crazy. They're all nuts.

Population of this town, 6,563, so pretty small town, but for Alaska, I think it's about the fourth largest city in the whole state, probably, for Alaska. There's not's about the fourth largest city in the in the whole state probably it for for Alaska. There's not a lot going on there. Median household income up here and it's usually about 69 grand in the rest of the country. One hundred forty three thousand three hundred twelve dollars. Wow. Yeah. That's that's my god. What are they doing? They're people that this is a suburb. This is like the nicer outside of Alaska. Plus there's a lot of large estates,

like large land, things like that. If you buy a house that has 30 acres, it's not just a, it's not a little quarter acre plot or something in a neighborhood. Median home price here, and it reflects it, $417,563. So it's a little pricey and everything is yeah And everything is expensive in Alaska except for like you know salmon and bear pelts probably I assume everything else is Gotta be brought in yeah, that's plenty you get plenty of those how fucking halibut is just dirt cheap

sell it out of buckets on the sidewalk, but Whole fillet is history of this town the sidewalk, but Whole fillets history of this town the settlement along the Palmer Highway in an area that had begun I guess had been home to the I'm gonna absolutely destroy this the tribe that was here before Denia Ena Athabaskans Athabaskans yeah at the Baskins Wow other apostrophes in the oh yeah, Ena, Athabaskans, Athabaskans, yeah, Athabaskans. Wow. Are there apostrophes in that?

Oh yeah, oh yeah. This is not an easy. That's a tough language, holy. I don't get it. It's tough. For thousands of years and was named Chugyak or Chugyak in 1947 by people who came here, non-native people here that came here, it is said to have come from

a native word meaning place of many places. Right. Wow. Why would you have a word for that? For some shit that makes no sense. And Chugiak means also mushroom trip, as a matter of fact, also, because that makes me feel like I'm on one. mushroom trip as a matter of fact also, because that makes me feel like I'm on one. Chugiak was first really heavily settled in the 1950s,

mainly from former military personnel who were stationed in Alaska during World War II. They just stayed up there. Oh yeah. They were like, oh, this is nice up here. So yeah, this is a kind of suburban expansion of Anchorage is basically what this is. Here are some reviews of this town. Here we go

five stars Chuggy act is a small town neighborhood a close community that bands together when the need arises Everyone knows everyone and they look out for each other whether it's through community prayer or just pulling over when one of their own is Having car problems. Well, yeah, you have to do that., otherwise you'll be eaten by a bear on the side of the road. I better pull over before a grizzly comes out of the woods and takes him. It's a great community to be a part of. Here's four stars.

There are both positives and negatives about living in a small town, but there are many activities to keep the community involved. My favorite is the top notch community band available to anyone and everyone. What does that mean? I don't know. You call them up and they come over and play a song.

I don't understand. Available to anyone and everyone? This picture of a bunch of guys sitting in a shed with their instruments awaiting the call. You're allowed to listen. You're allowed to listen. Four stars again. Chugyak is a suburb outside of Anchorage.

It is surrounded by ocean and mountains which offer lots of opportunities for skiing, snowboarding, hiking, kayaking, fishing, hunting, and much more. It's a safe town with a lot of parks for sports. There isn't much nightlife here, but you can find that in downtown Anchorage, which is only 20 minutes away. There it is. All that hot Anchorage nightlife that you're always hearing about Here about you know you hear certain spots. You know what I mean a Hollywood's got some cool shit New York Miami you're in a Vegas Nashville. Yeah, Chuggy. Yeah, you know it's all it's all pretty relative. I think things to do here the bear paw festival

bear paw Whole festival yeah the Chuggy act Eagle River Chamber of Commerce presents the annual bear paw paw festival The whole town turns out for a weekend filled with fun for all ages Sometimes unexpected but always a good time Events run the gamut the slippery salmon Olympics are perhaps the best known event Slippery salmon yeah, I think we know what that is Grab it by the hand yeah grab it with your hands Teams of two race against the clock and each other with real salmon as the critical item

To take along while tackling all the obstacles you have to run like a an obstacle course while carrying salmon. Carrot, yeah. Like a football. You need to put Vaseline or something on it. I do the grease it up. Probably, yeah. Greased up salmon. The running. Greased up salmon from a ditty party.

Yeah, that's all it is. It's got a lot of lotion on it. A lot of sanitizer. A lot of baby oil. A lot of baby oil. What'd I say, sanitizer? I meant to say baby oil and sanitizer came out. I don't think you wanna to use that as lube

That would be bad This is making my ass hurt even worse than it should Jesus Christ Why are you using hand sanitizer? Now it's got alcohol in it Also the running of the Bears, yeah, which would be way worse than the running of the Bulls I would imagine Yeah That's for sure. That's horrible. For sure, it's got claws.

A 300 yard fun run, races alongside costumed animal mascots for many. Who cares, that's stupid. Just some guy trying not to fall over because his head is too much weight for him. That's all it is. They probably chug beer or something and then do it. You can't do that sober, that's dumb.

That would be not fun at all. You have to at least be stoned for that. And also, human foosball takes the popular rec room game and replaces the plastic men with real life players. That's called soccer, everybody. Are they connected to a giant pole over their heads? If not, that's soccer, what what you just described not fucking foosball Yeah, are you are you kabobbing these people if not? I don't get it shit

Yeah, other popular events include the teddy bear picnic. I assume that's for children I hope up there though. I think teddy bears would have a different connotation because bears are scary there They're not like yeah cuddly. It's holy shit. connotation because bears are scary there. They're not like cute and cuddly. It's, holy shit, watch out. They're a real problem. A classic car show, a parade, carnival rides, and the I did a duck race. Who can come inside a duck fastest is what that is. Which end?

Does it matter? Either way. Whatever floats your duck boat. Whatever you... I'm not sure Which is a rubber duck regatta actually which may it sounds not like that at all. It sounds gross That said let's talk about some murder here that took place because this is some twisted shit, man This is one of those that maybe could have been a full-length episode. So we're gonna hit the high points points here okay let's start out on the evening of October 19th 1990 all right now on this

night there are there's a car driving down the highway all right and this is got some people in it it has a young man named Douglas Gustafson, who's 18 years old. It's his car. It's a copper-colored AMC Eagle. Hell yeah. Hot shit. That's a fun car. If only there was some wood paneling on the side,

it'd be perfect. So it's his car, and in the car is George Kerr, who's a friend of his, driving the car even though it's not his car and it's Gustafson's car is a guy named Raymond Chile jr. and RD he goes by RD Chile jr. and he's 18 also so three 18 year old kids in the car George Kerr in the back seat Douglas Gustafson whose car it is in the passenger seat RD Chile doing the driving here for some folks. Some odd three guys in a car three 18 year olds and an eagle in an eagle what's a four it's a it's not a two-seater

an eagle no no it's a piece of shit it's just a shit box well I've stuffed like six in an escort so it's not aagers, we used to put people in the trunk, for fuck's sake, it's just, hang on the roof, it's not that far. That escort hatchback had people in the back too. Oh, for sure, absolutely. Like, okay, so now Doug Gustafson, he comes from an interesting family, to say the least here.

We'll talk about his family a little here as his little background. Now, first of all, they're Jehovah's Witnesses, this family. Okay, now he has two siblings. He's got Peggy as his sister. She's older, she's about nine years older than him. Little bit about Peggy, cause she's a wild card here. She apparently, they're from Michigan, this family.

I don't know if they moved here to knock on doors in Alaska or spread the word of Jehovah or whatever they're doing. But they're from Michigan. They moved here. She has moved around a little bit because she was married and stuff. At this point in 1990, she's a dental assistant. And her boss says she's a very good dental assistant who meets

the public well and seems concerned and caring with her patients. So that's nice. She spent her teen years caring for her younger brothers. She described it like one of my own children. She said she got her driver's license as soon as she could so she could do the family shopping and errands and stuff like that so she could help take care of the brothers because there's another younger brother named Craig also. There's three three two brothers and a sister here now apparently

She said that there's a lot missing from her memory as a child. There's been abuse in this family as well That we know of and when we hear what they do you go? Yeah, this doesn't come normal families don't have the whole everyone in the family do this. So Now Peggy got married in 1980. She when she was 18 years old 17 Maybe she married a guy named Craig Barron's in Washington State and they had a daughter named Amanda a couple years later Apparently Amanda had some problems a friend of hers said Peggy put a lot of money into her daughter, which sounds weird. You put a lot of money into like an old car

or into like a house you're flipping. Yeah, it's generally to improve it or fix it. Yeah, you just say you're taking care of your child and say I'm putting a lot of money into this kid. I should do that every time my daughter smiles. So effective, child. Put a lot of money in that face right there. That's a lot of, you've got a lot of braces and everything else all fixed up now. So she said, uh, she put a lot of money in her and her daughter.

She was born with a cleft palate and needed a lot of hospital care. Peggy did all of that. So the Barons ended up moving to her and her husband, the Barons as a couple, moved to Miami, Florida. Sure. Which you can't get further like climate or geographically than Alaska and Miami. Across the entire whole country, yeah. Holy shit.

Where they were divorced in 1987. She's got a new husband as of 1990, but she's also had some run-ins with the law She was convicted twice in 1990 for shoplifting. Oh Peggy was yeah, that's she's like a one a twenty seven year old lady. You're too old to shoplift at this point It's cloth pal if you if you were born with a cleft and had it fixed you can't break the law. No, no That's her daughter. Oh number Peggy. Peggy put a lot of money in her daughter. Remember got it. Yeah with the cleft palette No, no, yeah, you might be Noticable yeah, you might be noticeable

So she's convicted of shoplifting twice for trying to take perfume from Lamont's some store and for taking about $110 in merchandise from the Cars Quality Center on Diamond Boulevard. A Cars employee, a guy named Anthony Rice, tried to stop her when she was shoplifting and she bit him. She bit the security guard for trying to stop him. She was sentenced to about 22 days in jail, and that's about it. She never served her sentence.

She never showed up to report, so she has a warrant for her the whole time for all of this. She's also charged with theft in January of 1990 after prosecutors say she took more than $50 in coats from Lamonts also. So Lamonts is her spot. Now in recently here, because we were starting out in October 1990

over the summer and in recent months, she was accepted as a pre-major in the three-year dental hygienist program at the University of Alaska Anchorage. And she just had another son and all just got married and so she's trying to turn it all around here. I don't know if she was just a single mom with a couple of kids and medical problems and just decided to shoplift. I'm not sure what's going on there but anyway, there's also Craig Gustafson. He's the middle child here. He is in between Peggy and Doug. He's born in 1967.

And then Douglas Gustafson is the one in the car who owns the Eagle here. Now, Doug works the evening shift at South Central Air and is a baggage handler. He's at the airport. All these guys work at the airport, by the way. Everybody here. Now, like I said, he's got the friends in the car,

George Kerr in the back seat, R.D. Chielli driving his car for some reason. Gustafson's in the passenger seat, Doug, and Doug Gustafson is holding an HK rifle, HK91. Why? Okay, he had just bought it that day. Just bought it. He's just holding it. He's gonna wander around with it. Yeah, in the passenger seat, sitting on his lap. There's other guns in the car as well as we'll find out but because they just

they went target shooting earlier and in Alaska to have high-powered weaponry with you all the time is extremely common apparently up there. From what I've seen at any point a gigantic monster deadly animal can attack you and you need to have like a high-powered weapon with you at all times or else you'll be Wow, it's it's not you know It's not a it's not a civilized area forgiving. Yeah, no forgiving climate. No, it's not Yeah, no, it's not and if you're out in a rural area You are in bear country and in who the fuck knows what else is up There the moose are dangerous for Christ's sake they'll attack her a boo wolves

There's all kinds of all sorts of shit up there So they were headed for a big night of partying boy three 18 year olds out on the town They were headed to the big timber motel on 5th Avenue Where they plan to listen to this get down this tonight they're gonna party they're gonna rent a room quote watch MTV and party that sounds how would you like to go in a time machine to 1990 and make yourself 18 years old and you're gonna go party in a room and watch some fucking MTV that sounds awesome right Smoke weed and drink beer, Kurt Loder and Tabitha Woller.

That sounds awesome. Tabitha Soren. That's it. Yeah, shit that sounds awesome. So earlier in the day Gustafsson Doug had purchased the HK rifle from a local dealer and had it in the car with him. It's apparently at that point it was selling for about $1,000 in the gun catalogs. Really? In 1990. Very expensive gun. Yeah, not a cheapie.

Apparently they had stopped making it is why. So it's expensive. Okay. They stopped making it in like the late 70s or something. So apparently it's a pretty badass gun. I mean it's a... It sounds like it, yeah. What caliber is it? Do you know? It's a.30 gun. I mean it sounds like it. Yeah There too. Is it do you know it's a 308. Oh

Yeah, that's a that's a lot of weapon. That's not the fire amount that fast Yeah, and there's two other guns in the car too a 223 caliber rifle and a shotgun Because they spent the day target shooting at the gravel pits in a Kalunta or a Kaluta shooting at the gravel pits in a Kalunta or a Colette. A Clunta. I don't know what the fuck. All right. As they're driving, they're dry. I mean, they're headed for a, this is a big night on the town for these kids. And yeah, as they're driving a red Toyota MR two with dark tinted windows passes them. Now, if anybody remembers a Toyota MR two,

basically I could pick it up and carry it with me in a place. It's like... It's somehow a smaller Fiero. It's insane. I knew a kid that had one and he was like five foot three, like it fit him perfect. And he gave me a ride home from school one time and it was hilarious.

I was like, this car is ridiculous, dude. I can't fit in this fucking thing. He had to like help me get out of the thing. It's so tiny. Real tiny real tiny little guy looks like a toy It doesn't even look real It looks like something a rich person would buy for their 12 year old to drive around the yard doesn't it doesn't look real so Chile rd. Chile the driver of the of the car thought the Toyota had tried to cut him off

And also came a little bit too close to the side of his car, he thought. This is an eagle. It's a priceless vehicle. It's an heirloom. So I'm gonna hand this down to my grandkids. What are we talking about here? So he thought he was trying to maybe rub up

against the car type of thing. Like they were. Rebels racing, James. Yeah, Dale Earnhardt passed him on the left and trying to push him off So Chile gets really pissed off. This isn't even his car by the way as we know he's driving someone else's and said hey Let's get those guys Okay, and in a response Gustafson in the passenger seat Doug said hey, I'm gonna shoot that car

Okay, they didn't give him the finger as they pass they just passed them that's all there's no reason for this whatsoever so then she Chile and Gustafson are talking about shooting the Toyota should we shoot it or not and Apparently they said well these Chile said these guys are fucking with us. And Gustafson said, all right, I'm going to shoot the car. And Shealy said, let's get them. They're not going to push us around. Let's show these assholes.

Okay. Okay. Now they're hyping each other up. Yup. And the two in the car didn't even notice them. They were just driving. They didn't even care. They were doing their own thing.

They had another big night ahead of them here. The Toyota inside the Toyota are two people Rob are Robert Chamberlain is the driver and his passenger is Jeffrey Kane. They're both 20 years old. C A I N Kane. Now they're about to exit the highway at the Muldoon Avenue exit. The Toyota is by the way, Jeffrey Kane is a computer operator at Fort Richardson, and he was just closing on a two-bedroom house near his parents' house as well. So he was doing well for himself at 20. He was staying temporarily with his parents

while his house closed, and he had a date with his girlfriend later that night. Oh. he was hooking it up rather than you know having a circle jerk while watching MTV in a motel room he was going to hook up with an actual female here. Yeah. So he told his dad I'll catch you later when he left and this is about 930 that night now they're driving their plan is to get off on the Muldoon Avenue exit and go to the Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Not for chicken, to pick up Kane's car. He had parked it there earlier in the day, so that's how it happens. The Toyota's in the far left lane doing the passing. They see this Toyota MR2, this is Gustafson and Cheely and Kerr in the Eagle here. The Eagle sees the MR2 about 100 yards ahead. So Cheely hits the gas and gets up to about 80 miles an hour. Doug rolls down the passenger window and rests the HK. By the way, it's like an assault rifle if you don't know.

So it's got one of those. So he rests the HK on the ledge, the barrel on it, ready to shoot. As Chilly approaches the Toyota, he slows down so Doug can have a better shot, more steady thing here. So as Chamberlain slowed down to go to the ramp, that's when Doug fired the rifle at the car. So it's going like that. So the bullet went through the rear window, hit Jeffrey Kane in the back of the head, killed him instantly. Dang! One shot back of the skull. Oh boy. Dead. So Chamberlain, holy shit, what the fuck, he's driving. He raced to the KFC and called for help because the KFC is right off the highway. So he calls for help.

Now it's fucked up. Jeffrey's mom, Teresa, said he's a nice kid who didn't deserve what he got. And said, you know, the last thing that she said was, while he was heading out, was she asked him if he needed any money and he told her, no, he's fine. And she, the mom said, he looked at me and said, Mom, I really love you, and then left.

The dad said, it's a stupid and needless death, and basically this is ridiculous, it's stupid. Now, a local gunsmith, the local gun guy here, named Will Fowler, he said that the shot described with both cars moving is a very difficult shot, even for a very good, for an expert marksman, that's not an easy shot. You might seem like it is, but the way things are moving

and the way physics work, it's not easy at all. Hitting a moving target in the first place is tough, and then when you're moving also, it just adds to the problem. And anybody slows down or speeds up a half a mile an hour, the whole thing's off. So, and they said also the Toyota had heavily tinted windows, so Damn good shot. They said the average person shooting in that situation would be lucky to even hit the car

Never mind get through the window and hit someone in the head so This is and then they drive off in the Eagle and that's how this goes now this isn't the first time that Kerr and the Gustafson boys and Chile have had some dumb shit Let's talk a little bit more about them summer of 1989 so the previous summer year before They got into some bombs then Like boom explosives but like got into some bombs like yeah them or like no got into it like you get into flock of seagulls yeah they get get into it

like it's like it's something cool get into like sniffing glue basically got into glue glue there's a neighbor of named Roy Kennedy he lives near the Kerr household where George Kerr the guy in the back seat of the Eagle lives. And basically at one point, this Roy Kennedy caught R.D. Chealy and somebody else vandalizing his mailbox and shot out the back window of Chealy's truck in the summer of 1989.

That's the response in Alaska, is shoot first and figure out shit later apparently. So Chealy, Doug Gustafson, and George Kerr, in Alaska is shoot first and figure out other shit later apparently so Chile Doug Gustafson and George Kerr the three from the car put a pipe bomb with a fucking timer delay circuit yeah this is like bombed somebody they put it on the motorhome's gas tank the guy who shot at them he shot at them because they were vandalizing his mailbox. And now they're so mad about that, they're going to blow up his house. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian

Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing at him and the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts.

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to 20 of his mailboxes over a six month period. Dude, I would just get decoy mailboxes at that point that were just 14 feet in the ground in solid steel. So you hit it with your car or a bat, you're gonna feel that shit. No box, nothing's in there, just a solid steel box. My fence would just be, every column would be a mailbox. All me, who knows which one it is. Yeah, take a guess.

So this guy said said I was armed, needless to say, and I punched about six holes through the back of the pickup truck with my rifle. The next night I was gone about 30 minutes and my motorhome blew up. They blew his house up. Wow. He said the bomb did not ignite the gasoline when it ruptured the tank though thankfully. So it was less of an explosion. This guy reported the incident to police but nothing ever happened after that even though he said this is who did it. Now back to October 19th and the shooting day.

Now after they shoot Jeffrey Kane and you know that car the MR2 goes off the highway and the eagle keeps going Apparently according to George Kerr the guy in the backseat Doug Gustafson didn't know that he had hit anybody at the time There's really no way to no way to know if you hit anybody I mean the car didn't go out of control like Grand Theft Auto when you shoot somebody so they figured he didn't hit the driver But either way the guy in the back seat, Kerr, was very upset and asked to be let out of the car so he could take a cab home.

He didn't want to go party. MTV was ruined for the night. Just ruined. So Gustafson and Shealy, though, they continued on to the big Timber Motel where they continued their plans for the night. MTV and, I don't know, fing at each other, I'm not sure. Yeah, right?

So the next day, October 20th, 1990, the guilt of all this must be getting to George Kerr. Which is funny, because he didn't feel guilty about blowing a man's house up at all. But this he feels guilty about. Apparently that Gustafson and Shealy were trying to hide evidence and Kerr was deciding whether or not to tell on them.

So he talked to his boss at JD's Bar-B-Q, and it's spelled Bar-B-Q, one of those, in Eagle River about the shooting. So he tells his boss about the shooting. This is what happened last night. Yeah, well, you know, the assistant manager at a barbecue joint, that's like a lawyer or a priest. You can tell them anything really, right, I think?

It's like a therapist, really. Really, a counselor, a therapist, a psychiatrist. It's similar, similar. So, except he gives you pulled pork afterwards, which is way better than anything you've ever gotten at church, admit it. That'll cure what ails you, for sure. Yeah, that'll do it.

So his boss put him together with a lawyer he knew, and George Kerr and the lawyer head to the police station at 4.30 the next day. Oh, we're gonna turn him in. George is not fucking around. Now Kerr called his father from work and explained to him that he's helping, he's gonna help the police in their investigation of the shooting. Kerr called his father from work and explained to him that he's helping, he's going to help the police in their investigation of the shooting.

Kerr told his father he intended to engage Gustafson in a conversation that would be recorded by the police. He's like, I'm going to wear a wire and talk to this guy. So Kerr doesn't know though that R.D. Chealy is in Kerr's father's house while this call is taking place. Right now. Right fucking now. So the dad is talking to him saying I'm going to turn these guys in and one of them is standing next to his dad right there. So dad's got to turn into quite the actor here. He does

and Kers father said that when he had when he the phone conversation ended, Shealy asked him about the conversation and the dad suspected Cheely might be involved also, so he lies to Cheely and tells him that, oh yeah, no, George said he's in Anchorage with his girlfriend, that's what the call was about. So Cheely, though, then Cheely left, so Kerr's father called back to tell the police he thought Cheely knew or suspected

that Kerr was helping with the authorities. So protect my son essentially Now they do just that do they wire up George Kerr and they send them out to hang out with Doug Gustafson to try to get a recorded conversation so They fit him with the transmitter. They send him off. They drove around in the in the AMC Eagle, of course so this is on an early Sunday morning and Gustafson made some incriminating statements before dropping George off

now they agreed that apparently there was a burglary that took place that we'll talk about of a place called Mike's meats that George was involved in and place called Mike's meats that George was involved in and The prosecutors agree that they won't charge Kerr as an accessory or for the burglary He'd taken part in that night if he got the confession from Gustafson So you get the goods and you're off the hook at one point in the two different conversations Kerr asked Gustafson Why he killed the man and Gustafson replied that he didn't mean to I? Was just out of pot shots at it. Yeah, just shooting at a moving vehicle with people in it.

You know, like you do when they pass you, because that's annoying. So an article in the Anchorage Daily News recounted Kerr's description of the shooting. The article reported that when Kerr was asked to explain why Chile had been driving Gustafson's car, Kerr stated that Gustafson viewed Chile as an authority figure even though they're the same age right It's like his husband like you know he's gonna drive, and then they're gonna go to a motel room together. It's weird Strange like an old-time couple or some shit so the article also noted that a source described Cheely and Gustafson as trouble. They blew up a guy's house for Christ's sake. That's trouble.

They love improvised explosives, man. That's definition of trouble. That's trouble. So they said that on the recording, Gustafson gave a really crude description of the area where he had hidden the rifle. He just said an open area with trees in the vicinity of the big timber motel. Police scoured the area, but didn't turn up the murder weapon. It doesn't know anything about it. They can't find it. So also Gustafson said on

the recording that he's a pilot. He's an 18 year old pilot. I don't think so. And talked on the wire about having access to the to a plane if the police got on to him and he had to flee he's gonna go fly away somewhere fly out of here sure you know what all those people up in Alaska they fly everywhere they do they have water water what are they they have grocery ones up flying land on water they have everybody has them crazy it's wild up there a lot of these towns are only accessible by air. Right.

So that's what they do. Everybody has planes. They all got a fucking plane somehow. So strange. So they chose to follow Gustafson even though they had all the evidence they need because they thought maybe he would lead them to the murder weapon. But apparently he spotted them and started trying to like drive evasively. So they just called ahead and had cops block a road

and took him into custody. Now a colleague of his at South Central Air, the airport Gustafson works at, or the airline, said he was shocked to hear of this charge. He said he was very quiet and withdrawn. That's a pilot named Bob Edison. He said, yeah, he was very, another guy said, yeah, real quiet and easy going.

He's planning murders, that's why. So, an article in the Chugiak Eagle River Star newspaper quoted a teacher from high school who described Chilli and Gustafson as quote, gun nuts. And the article mentioned that Gustafson may have been involved in the Mike's Meats burglary that we'll talk about, but the article didn't tie Chile to that incident, but he was involved.

Now that same day, Chile goes to another friend's house, apparently who he had talked to and made death threats to the friends telling them, I'll fucking kill you if you say anything about anything I've done. It was like, I don't, I'm not going to say shit. He said he would get revenge on anyone who provided information leading to his arrest for anything. There you go.

So anyway, so Doug Gustafson's arrested here. R.D. Shealy is finally arrested on November 2nd, 1990. And yeah, they said that they're they're quoting this is the lieutenant police lieutenant from Anchorage said quote murder they charge him with murder in the second degree and they say murder in the second degree is when you commit an act that's so outrageous you would have to assume it endangers life. Chielly was driving the car he was slowing down maneuvering the

car in such a way that Gustafson could get a shot off we're going to get them both Gustafson on first degree murder and Shealy on second. Oh, we're going to get them. The article further states that Shealy had also been indicted for tampering with evidence and for interfering with official proceedings for second, second degree theft and second degree burglary in connection with the break in at's Meats, which is a grocery store, and for second degree assault and for threatening a couple who knew about his involvement in the burglary, because they told on him too.

What did he take from Mike's? They took a bunch, they money, they got a bunch of money. Oh. Yeah, a lot of money, they must have busted the safe or something because they got thousands of, $19,000 were stolen from Mike's Meats. Mike's Meats has 19 grand on hand? 19 grand, it was probably three months worth of take take basically they took for some shit who knows but the Yeah, that's that's wild and they think that the basically they stole that money

And then that same day he went and purchased the rifle and then shot a kid with it So big day and then watched MTV big day Mike's meats money to get Mike's meats money Big day. Mike's Meats money to get a little bit of. Mike's Meats money. Jeffrey Kane's dad said, I feel better knowing that somebody who is responsible or allegedly responsible,

I feel better that they were apprehended and I can go on with my life. Now, Chile wants a change of venue because this is big news up there. Big news, they presents the Superior Court with a compilation of newspaper articles about the case and argues that the publicity makes it impossible to receive a fair trial. March 1991, Doug Gustafson goes on trial for this murder and they try him for first degree

murder but he is convicted of second degree murder and tampering with physical evidence. Okay. Okay, he is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off 65 years for the murder and two years for tampering with evidence. See you later. Life's over. And it's not even close to over in his court proceedings because he's, there's all, there is another major thing that's about to happen here. This is nowhere near the end of the story. So, Chilly keeps trying to get them to change venues.

He brings in all these articles, and all the articles describe what happened. So he's like, people know about this shit, but the judge ruled that they would deny the motion because they basically did the juror selection. And it's like, well, if we can't find a jury, then yeah, we'll move it, but let's try to find a jury first. So April 1991 is Chile's trial. There's a jail tape, a tape of him talking

to people because he talks to people on the phone and it's all recorded so okay so it's on the phone yeah on the phone or in person. Chile's comments about the shooting are clearly discernible in this tape. In these tape conversations, they contain Chilly's suggestions to other inmates that because other inmates were wires for him, that George Kerr fired the shot, not Gustafson, and that Chilly had told Kerr to use his own gun, but that Kerr had used Gustafson's gun and that Kerr had intended all along to frame Gustafson and that Gustafson had hidden the gun the next day and The prosecution call will call the inmate to the stand and talk about the tape conversations And the prosecutor you know is going over all this and so you have these jail

Conversations and he's got the transcripts on an overhead projector and all the whole deal. So not looking good. The jury here they deliberate and apparently the judge convened the court and read aloud a note from the jury. And they said quote last night one of the jurors drove out the glen highway and muldoon road interchange and drove back and forth. Between the fort rich interchange and the Boniface interchange twice. This juror has not expressed her findings or opinions of what she saw or believed, etc. as we stopped her. The minute she told us that she had done it, we would like to know if this trip was permissible or not.

If it was, may she discuss her findings with the jury? The judges tell the jury, you're not allowed to do any of your own investigation. That's not allowed So this is absolutely a well outside the scope of what a juror supposed to do That's crazy the judge You know said the judge talked to the juror and she said she was trying to get it straight in my mind I guess She added that the drive that during her drive, she wasn't really looking for anything because I didn't think there would be anything to look for.

I was just thinking and I drove it twice and I went home. She said she didn't stop. She didn't look around for evidence. She didn't make any time in time anything or take any notes or pictures. She said she observed nothing different from what she had heard of what she had earlier observed when the entire jury was taken to view the spot So yeah, they ended up based on saying that this didn't really matter is how it was So they deny a mistrial because the defense wants a mistrial for that

So instead they convict him guilty of murder in the second degree Okay So during sentencing the judge he gives it to this fucking Shealy Gooden Court man, he says that it's one of the worst second degree murders he could think of. He said, quote, it's difficult to talk about one murder being worse than another murder, but indeed one can categorize them. And considering the aspects, which I've already already reviewed here it's clear to me that this murder totally unprovoked of an unsuspecting person and committed in a way that in a very real sense threatened us all by its very random nature is

Among the very worst that could be possibly done as a second-degree murder That's not a good start for Julie. No Maybe for me not for him not for him start for Chilly. No, maybe for me, not for him. Not for him. That's not what you want to hear. He said, there was plenty of time to think about what was going on. I'm convinced from the trial testimony that I heard and observed that Raymond Chilly Jr. not only incited this thing, but he created the whole incident out of whole cloth. The other car did nothing wrong. It was Ray Chilly Jr. that invented an incident out of whole cloth. And then he incited Gustafson to take part in the scheme of

events that came about. And then Ray Chilly Jr. sped up to catch the other car. And I'm absolutely convinced that when they got nearer the Muldoon overpass that he synchronized the speed of his vehicle with the speed of the victim's vehicle. Counsel can argue to me all year long that Mr. Chilly did not pull the trigger. Indeed he did not. But he played a very direct role in the commission of this murder. He's as fully culpable as Gustafson. You sir may fuck off 60 years in prison. Okay. Just as much almost.

Just as much. Yeah. Just really showed very little discerning between the two. Now Peggy is concerned about her reputation, the sister of Doug. Yeah. Yeah, her friend said, she used that expression that maybe people didn't like her now because of her brother, and she was afraid she wasn't gonna be hired anywhere. I always thought that was real strange.

I wanted to say, no Peggy, nobody cares. How can anyone know that's your brother unless you tell them? You know because she's married you can use it. She has a different last name everybody in town that knows her nose Yeah, yeah, but like she doesn't have to work in a small town You know what I mean like nobody knows who the fuck she is there. They're separated by years They're not like they're seen out together or anything so summer of 1991 everybody's in prison and Peggy and her two brothers,

Douglas and Craig and RD, Chilly who's in prison. So Douglas and RD are in prison and Peggy is out. And so is Craig, who's the other Gustafson brother. Apparently, they come up with a little plan to get even. Okay? Together, they cook up a plan to get even with George Kerr for telling on them. Okay. Okay, so September 17th, 1991.

David Kerr, who's George's dad, he's at home with his wife Michelle Kerr, who's 34 years old, George's mom but stepmom. They receive a package in the mail. They receive a package, David Kerr opens it, it fucking explodes, a major explosion, immediately killing David and absolutely mangling Michelle. Wow. Suffered massive facial chest and neck injuries in the blast

Michelle had to undergo nearly a dozen surgeries to her face torso eyes and ears It took surgeons three days to sew up her face half of which was completely blown off in the blast She has plastic surgery to straighten out her face basically Her eyes were cut by tiny pieces of glass that still worked their way out and sent her back to the hospital every once in a while because she's got glass in her eyes. The deafening blast shattered her eardrums.

Doctors repaired one eardrum, but they will not know for several weeks if it'll work or not. This is crazy. She also lost her sense of smell and taste and blew all her teeth out of her mouth Yeah, this woman is destroyed just destroyed poor lady For a few days she was unable to walk or talk any talk at all

She passed notes to her sister and brother at the hospital telling them that she remembered the explosion She later said I asked them if Dave was dead and they said yes But I was pretty certain of that Still it took four days to sink in that my husband was gone. Sure, yeah. So after the explosion, the next day, remember Roy Kennedy, the guy whose motor home got blew up there back in the day?

Yeah, yeah. Well, he heard. Did he get a package too? No, no, no, but he heard about it and he said, that's interesting. He said, seems a bit, you know Coincidental he said that quote I live probably three or four miles from Thunderbird Heights That's a neighborhood where the curves lived and I don't know how many people know how to make bombs

It seems like kind of a rare talent to be able to make a good bomb like that And so he said Thunderbird Heights is kind of close quarters to have two bombs go off in the same general vicinity, so I called the postal inspector and he took note of it. That puts in that sets the ball rolling now. Okay. Because he says, listen, blah, blah, blah. The day after the bombing, one of Chile's cellmates told the police that Chile had a list of people he wanted to kill Well that guy better be careful with

Yeah, it wants to send packages to people and he's already been he just sent it to somebody that's ratted on him He just killed you from prison. He killed somebody. So I mean if you're in the cell with him watch out. The list included the district attorney, police, even the mafia doesn't kill the district attorney, the district attorney, police officers, all of the jurors who found him guilty, and the judge who presided over the trial. That is 14 people. Wow. That's a lot. That's yeah yeah, at least all of the police too. So the list was handwritten on the back of some legal documents in Shelley's and Chilly's cell.

The document, they said, Chilly told the informant that the people he wanted to kill, he would blow up either them or their houses. And the persons he wanted to suffer, he would wait till he got out of jail Then he would dig a pit under his house so he could starve and torture them to death Now he's Buffalo Bill. He's turned angry. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, this chilly if you pass him on the highway He wants to murder you like this guy is nuts So they do an investigation here This is the postal inspectors the Bureau of of Tobacco, Alcohol and Firearms,

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at the direction of her imprisoned brother built the bomb herself. Peggy's a bombsmith? Pregnant Peggy built a bomb. God damn! She sat there in maternity clothes putting a bomb together. That's wild is that That's wild dangerous man

Then a third sibling Craig the middle child helped put the finishing touches on the device and package it for delivery All families involved here. Yeah, I'd rather have them knock on my door talk about Jehovah's Witness shit Like and that's saying something because I don't want to hear that shit. So Chilly and Gustafson vowed to get even. They were housed in different parts of the prison at the Spring Creek Correctional Facility at Seward. That's where Gustafson was. And then Chilly was at the Cook Inlet pretrial facility. They communicated through notes passed by a third party. Investigators said they interviewed an informant who aided by his girlfriend who knew Chile passed notes to Gustafson during prison church services.

So she'd go get the note, then visit and take it over here. And then, yeah. Corrections officials said the bomb components allegedly smuggled into the cook Intel pretrial facility to be inspected by Gustafson before the bomb was made. They said the parts were so small that metal detectors and routine searches wouldn't have detected them. They missed them. Yeah.

So they said that the director of institutions said security measures at the jail were sufficient to keep contraband from being smuggled in, but tiny plastic components about the size of a computer chip were not contraband they were really looking for. They were looking for knives, guns, drugs, you know. Things that they can escape with. Prison stuff, yeah. But apparently it was Peggy who produced the bomb constantly consulting with her incarcerated brother on how to hook the device up. Conversations between the two that were recorded by the jail, they basically pretended

to be discussing car repairs. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's smart. They said that Peggy. You gotta get the pods, yeah, right. It's gotta be rounded. I got quotes from that, exactly.

Oh! Investigators said Gustafson Peggy told her brother she burned up batteries trying to build the device. The document said that Peggy managed to smuggle parts of the bomb into jail so her brother could show her how to assemble the device. Here's a quote from the affidavit here. Doug and Peggy reminded each other to remember that they were discussing something to fix Peggy's car Doug told Peggy that she should wire the two batteries Quote hook them both positive together and both negative but not crossing over They also discussed how Peggy and Craig stalked George Kerr. They called him gorgeous by the way

That that was their that was their nickname forum was gorgeous She was trying to find out when he was joining the Navy because he had joined the Navy They said they'd spotted him at work and driven by his house to see what he drove now In a recorded conversation with Doug Peggy described a graphic dream of vengeance where she had hit She had seen gorgeous hitchhiking and ran him over Quote I sent that puppy flying over my car and I looked back and he moved and I went back and he was still alive. And Douglas said, so you backed over it?

No, she replied. I let him know exactly who I was and then I broke his neck. And then then Doug and Peggy laughed. And then Doug said, I hope you took the car to the car wash afterwards. Ha ha ha Holy shit, so then Craig enter Craig Gustafson He's the one who's going to put the finishing touches on and he's the one who'd been stalking George Kerr also to find out where He was and everything they knew curate enlisted in the Navy But didn't know when he was leaving the bomb got completed on September 13th It was described as a gray substance that filled half of a small white box in which

Which were red and yellow wires and a battery? They said yeah, they said that Craig asked at first Peggy what was in the box and her answer was quote. It's justice I'm carrying around some justice. This is some crazy shit here Sounds like it's the 1880s right now. They're gonna blow up a stagecoach cuz somebody told on him for Train and tie a woman to it on the tracks. Yeah, so apparently They bring Craig in and talk to him and Craig told authorities that two weeks ago The whole scheme started when his brother and Shealy stole a large amount of explosives before their arrest

Don't know where they got that from Craig became first aware of the plan to send the bomb when Peggy approached him weeks before the explosion She asked her brother for help with the device and he drew her a simple diagram Does everyone in this family know how to build a fucking bomb? This is crazy. Do you know how to build a bomb like that that goes off when you open a package? I don't. I only know one bomb. Yeah yeah we know that. That's the only one. Yeah or the there's other ones but they're simple they're not this. Yeah they're not this. There's no wires and batteries. No it's shit that you make when you're 13

to blow up a mailbox. It's tighten the cap and throw it. Exactly, that's what it is. Get the fuck away. Get the fuck away. Oh man, I guess the box, it was a white box about eight inches by eight inches by eight inches, one of those.

When he asked what it was, she said it's Justice. He also told investigators that he saw two mailing labels, one with George Kerr's name on it and address, and the other said State of Alaska on it. That was the return address. It just typed out thing that said State of Alaska, like the state said it to him. So anyway, Peggy brought the bomb to Craig's house fearing her husband would find it if she kept it at her home. Craig took the suitcase with the bomb inside, stored it in his truck until it was mailed. It was placed in a brown box addressed to George Kerr

and sent to the house, and that is when David Kerr picked it up from the post office, took it home, and he opened it up to determine if it was something that needed to be forwarded to George, because it said State of Alaska. That's why he opened it. Otherwise, he would have just saved it for George. He stood near his wife and yeah,

the package exploded with such force, killed him instantly and blew out the kitchen wall. God dang. Decent bomb. That's force, yeah. So Peggy gets arrested on April 1st, 1992. She's arrested without incident at her home and in the interval between

arrest and arraignment she confesses to everything. Well yeah what else is she gonna do? She'll later say that she wants it thrown out because they arrested her, she asked for a lawyer and then a couple days later she talked to them again without the lawyer, waived her Miranda rights and talked but she said that they shouldn't have talked to her without the lawyer later on. But they say, no, no, no, you asked to talk. So everyone's arrested. Doug's arrested again.

Chilly's arrested even though they're in prison. Peggy's arrested and Craig is arrested as well. Oh. And there's another guy, Ryan is his last name. He'll be arrested also for helping deliver the materials to Peggy. So the four could face the death penalty if convicted on federal charges of mail bombing.

So, murder and mail bombing. The mail part makes it way worse. Yeah, it makes it, terrorism, that's crazy. Craig remains at large. Oh. There is a $10,000 reward offered for his capture and the other guys, the ones that were in prison, were transferred to a federal facility at that point. large. Oh, there's a $10,000 reward offered for his capture. And, uh, the other guys, the ones that were in prison were transferred to a federal facility at that

point. Um, so they're, um, uh, they're searching for Craig. He's 25 years old and were described as suicidal. They're looking for, uh, him. He hadn't been seen since Sunday. He is a maintenance worker at Northern Air cargo They search his house and they find two letters in a drawer addressed to mom and dad and to Barb who's his girlfriend Okay, both signed by Craig the later to his letter to his parents read I am sure that the cops will talk to you listen to them what they say is true It's not a government conspiracy.

Because in Alaska, you have to, back then, now it's everybody, but back then, the conspiracy people moved to the middle of fucking nowhere. You know, they moved to like the upper peninsula of Michigan or fucking Alaska. So he said, things got out of control and I didn't have enough smarts to know when to say something like stop.

It's all true, I know. And he says, well, time to get. I love you both and see you again someday. He quit his job after the interrogation that he went under, walked away from his rented home that he shared with his girlfriend, and left two notes, that was it. He told his, the one he left for his girlfriend

just said he was going out for a beer. Didn't explain anything else to her he's arrested on April 17th 1992 in Hollywood California that's where he went he went to Hollywood that's pretty fucking fun in for sure yeah you could be a weirdo no one cares so July 15th 1992 Craig is gonna plead guilty to this he feels bad about it and he doesn't seem like his biggest scumbag is the rest of the family, if I'm being honest. Seems like, yeah, I don't know.

Well, he at least has remorse. Yeah. Nobody else does. Everyone else is pissed off they got caught. He agrees to testify against the others too. That's big. That's big. And the judge even said,

I do believe that Mr. Craig Gustafson is not a danger to the community, at least not to the level of the others. Right. A pregnant lady is building palms for Christ's sake. He is sentenced to, you sir, may fuck off, 21 years and 10 months in prison. That's a pretty good stretch though, Jesus. Followed by 5 years of probation.

February 4th, 1993, Peggy pleads guilty. They have her debt to rights. I mean, it's everything. She pleads guilty in a Los Angeles federal court here and she, during her sentencing, by the way, Douglas is also gonna plead guilty. We'll talk about him in a second. During her sentencing, she said that she first started

helping Doug with his bomb plot because she thought it was George Kerr who had done the highway shooting. She said, I was misled. She said, I never thought Doug was capable of what the press said he did and what the court said he did. I thought my brother was innocent. Wouldn't you stop thinking that once he said, let's make a bomb to murder these people. Oh, it's capable of anything. She said that her brother became obsessed with getting back at George Kerr and she tried to just keep him going until the appeal could come through She said she never intended to hurt anyone with the bomb

She said she became more and more upset as her pregnancy progressed and her brother seemed to be suffering in prison Then shortly before that she was to mail the bomb. She said she was told that Douglas had been gang raped in prison So now she's really mad She said Yeah, she said she never took it the plot seriously until she saw news of David Kerr's death shortly after the birth of her son She gave a bomb to somebody to finish off in mail. What are you talking about? She fucking typed out the mailing labels and everything. Why would she feel anything? She said, I was shocked, mortified. I had hoped this didn't have anything to do with what I had put in the mail. Are you stupid? Wow. I was hoping

someone else sent this family a bomb and it killed them. Not the one I made. Right. She said I was praying against all odds. She said she feels worse every day about it. She said, if I could give my life to bring David Kerr back and fix mrs. Kerr I would fix her fix her fucked up face put it all together I'm so so if I could Humpty Dumpty her as I would I'm so sorry You don't know how much I hate myself if there's anything I can do to fix this just tell me what it is And I will do it. I bet the judge is gonna have a couple ideas Probably go to jail for a long time. Yeah, she then said,

it doesn't matter if I go to prison or I go home. I get harder on myself every day. Well, I'll tell you one place you're not going. Yeah, that's home. She said that during the final days of planning, she became out of touch with reality. She said, I was detached. I saw myself going through the motions, but it wasn't me.

It was like watching myself on television. And during cross-examination, though, she conceded that the motions, but it wasn't me. It was like watching myself on television. And during cross-examination though, she conceded that the bombing, she talked about it at length with her brothers and she said, but there was a lot of things that were said that I, that I didn't mean. It was to keep him happy and off my back. Her attorney urges the judge said she's a victim of the terrible men that were around her and urges the judge to give her probation probation Are you out of your fucking mind?

Even a judge would say that excuse me. I from a legal standpoint you're out of your out of your fucking gourd. Goodbye She said he said in reality the truth We all know from seeing Peggy Barnett pour her heart out on the witness stand is that she did not intend to cause anybody harm. That's all. And also they said she had a hormonal imbalance caused by the last stages of pregnancy that clouded her judgment. Yeah, that pregnancy man, that pregnancy brain is a motherfucker. Yeah, they usually, what you do is you mail four pounds of high explosives to somebody. That's part of it. Yeah, you got to watch that third trimester. The doctor warns you, you will want to build pretty high powered bombs in the third trimester. Watch out for that. So the judge said the defendant herself has stated

she conspired to kill George Kerr and knew that the bomb she mailed was designed to do just that. You ma'am may fuck off, 24 years and three months in prison. Oh boy. Yeah. Michelle Kerr, with her face all fucked up, said she said that, quote, maybe it's sexist, but I never would have imagined it would have been a woman. Never thought about it.

It is a little sexist. It's a little, she's like, maybe it's sexist. She said she was trying to get people to feel sorry for her. She was an eager and willing participant. She said that Peggy was probably only sorry that George Kerr wasn't killed in the attack. She said, I think she deserves more than 24 years. Obviously my husband is dead and she did it. She should get life.

I mean, it's, you know, I don't know how she's like the least responsible considering she made the fucking bomb and like had the communicate, like she's the central wheel of this whole, she's the hub of the whole wheel here. She got everything. Yeah, it's crazy. Now there's also a guy named Joseph Ryan,

and he pled saying that he had delivered explosives to Peggy and that it was material that went into a bomb and so he's going to be on trial too. Craig is going to testify in this trial and Ryan's lawyer gets Craig Gustafson on the stand and said that Craig had sought to avoid the death penalty and wanted a plea agreement worse than anything. He said, didn't you continually tell postal inspectors that you wanted a deal to save yourself? He said yes. Yeah and yeah. Now they said they portray Gustav Craig as someone, the defense attorneys try to tell, portray Craig as someone who's a just a constant liar, a prodigious liar and they said that Gustafson told, quote,

many, many lies to postal inspectors. Craig acknowledged untruth, saying he wanted to save himself and his brother and his sister at first, but then he spilled it later. Because they're saying from his first interview, he gave certain details, but didn't really tie him or his family into it, and then went on the run But then once he came back he told everything

Mark Bonner an assistant US attorney asked Craig if he had any reason to name people who weren't involved and Craig said quote. I ain't dragging nobody into this Give it between me and y'all hey dragging nobody else into this He is given you sir may fuck off 40 years for Joseph Ryan Which is more than the person who made the bomb which is a little crazy I'm like so many prison sentences and so much crime so much crime May 7th 1993 Doug who pleads guilty Here right he is said James. Well, yeah, I'm done with this. He is sent to USUR. Hopefully it wasn't by grizzly bears and moose. That's the danger up there.

You never know what's going to gang rape you. USUR may fuck off life in prison without the possibility of parole. Plus 30 years consecutive on top of that. Holy shit. Eat lots of dicks, Doug. Gang style. Gang style, yeah. So then, Chilly going to court now here. Chilly, when he first, this is hilarious, he came to court dressed in his prison blues, had a beard and all that kind of shit. Real cocky asshole. Like the

picture, he's such a cocky asshole this guy he told the magistrate that he wanted to help represent himself he said quote I'm the co-counsel me an 18 year old moron who blows shit up that's I'm the co-counsel Wow and the judge said we'll consider that next time and see what happens so during the trial here he is convicted. I mean, I just gave you all, Craig's going to testify. They get all the affidavits. He's convicted of this plot and he is sentenced to, this is a good one here. You, sir, may fuck off two life sentences without the possibility of parole plus 85 years

consecutive. I mean, it's just a joke at this It's yeah, yeah, sir You're never getting out of prison is just telling that you are going to die in prison if you can not your bedsheet together Go ahead and sling it over the highest thing you can and get end it because it's not good I'm gonna do a lot of paperwork. I don't even need to tell you the numbers. You're never getting out You're never getting out tell your lawyer. He could tell you later. It's wasting time. You're fucked. So 2005 Forensic Files does an episode on this. It's season 10 episode 25. Signed, sealed and delivered is the name of it here. And yeah, it's pretty fucking pretty interesting. They talk about the shooting

and then at the end says the resulting trials don't end the carnage. No they don't. June of 2013 Peggy is released from prison. She's out there. She's out. Don't know what she's doing. She's out though and I believe I can't find it but I think Craig should be out by now too. Okay. But everybody else is probably still less than her right he got he got he got yeah I think it was like three she got like three years less than him So I would hope that if she's out that he's out because he was the one that testified against everybody and they Cooperated more so he should probably get out before the lady who tried to probably Probably yeah, well she was all fucked up from everything else. So now Raymond, Shealy, and Doug,

as per federal prison records, Doug is currently incarcerated in the US Penitentiary at Victorville in California. And Raymond is serving his sentence at the US Penitentiary in Tucson. Is that right? Miserable. You can go down and say hi to him if you feel like. That is so warm.

Maybe when we're done recording, we'll take a trip on down to Tucson to say give a Heidi Hote Old Raymond there. It's a miserable place to serve time, fuck. Fucking good lord. It's a miserable place to be wealthy and have a mansion. Never mind serving time. Miserable place to be wealthy and free. Yeah.

If you said you can have $20 million, but you have to live in Tucson and stay there all the time, no more than a week out of Tucson, fuck no. I'd rather make $60 grand a year and live anywhere else on Earth, literally. I'd rather live in fucking Honduras than there. I'd probably just use all that $20 million for air conditioning.

That's what I mean. That's all you're gonna do. It's fucking miserable there. And air conditioning fees to repair it. What a... Constantly. Buy a second unit to keep on hand in case this one breaks down. Cause it's gonna. Keeping the temperature on 65, they never go off.

You just have a guy on call, he comes in and replaces them every couple of months or so. Yeah, rotate them out man. So anyway, there you go. That is Alaska. You just have a guy on call he comes in and replaces him every couple of months or so So anyway there you go that is Alaska and that is Fuckin for an express that is a ten pounds of murder in a two pound bag that explodes when you mail it That's pretty goddamn crazy. If you like that story, please tell everyone about it Tell the world get on whatever app you're listening on and give us five stars It helps the show so much and it takes so little time. So please do that. It really helps us.

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Keep coming back and seeing us each and every week, and until next week everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Last year, long crime brought you the trial that captivated the nation. She's accused of hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer, John O'Keefe with her car.

Karen Reed is arrested and charged with second degree murder. The six week trial resulted in anything but resolution. We continue to find ourselves at an impasse. I'm declaring a mistrial in this case. But now the case is back in the spotlight and one question still lingers. Did Karen Reed kill John O'Keefe?

The evidence is overwhelming that Karen Reed is innocent. How does it feel to be a cop killer, Karen? I'm Kristin Thorn, investigative reporter with Law & Crime and host of the podcast, Karen, The Retrial. This isn't just a retrial. It's a second chance at the truth. I have nothing to hide. My life is in the balance, and it shouldn't be. I just want people to go back to who the victim is in this. It's not her. Listen to episodes of Karen, The Retrial, exclusively

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