Small Town Murder - #60 - A Triangle Of Tragedy in Phillips, Oklahoma

Episode Date: March 7, 2018

This week, we check out the dwindling town of Phillips, Oklahoma, where a man somehow pulled multiple women into his orbit, and eventually had them help him with the most horrible tasks possible. It's an insane tale of twisting & twisted relationships, ending in horror. Oh, and its hilarious!! Along the way, we find out how much coal is too much coal, how karma can sometimes predict the future, and if it's possible to use being "White Trash" as legal grounds for appeal!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Tickets will go on sale February the 16th for all these shows. Also, don't forget March 25th in Phoenix at Stand Up Live. Yes. All the links are in the show description. Come out. Tell us to shut up and give you murder. This week, in the rundown town of Phillips, Oklahoma, a man somehow pulls in different women and has them help him with his murderous plots.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We are excited. We're pumped. We're jacked once again.

We have a really dense, crazy episode this week. We've got to burn through this top of the show fast because it's a dense one. Seattle, Washington, second show added for live shows. First one sold out. Second show added in Seattle, which is great. Thank you guys for buying those tickets. Phoenix, Arizona, March 25th is the first one coming up to kick off the tour. So you better hurry up.

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It's going to happen. There's jokes here. All the facts are real. The research is real. The cases are real. We don't make up anything for the sake of being funny. Right. It's just what it is, but we're going to make jokes.

But what we do, here's the thing that we do. Yeah. A little thing that makes it okay. We make sure to go out of our way to not make jokes at the expense of the victims or of the victims' families. Because we are assholes. Right. But we're not scumbags.

That's true. That's the truth. That's the truth right there. And we don't give this disclaimer to tell you that the show is bad and watch out. We give you this disclaimer to weed out the people who think that true crime and comedy never belong together. Right. Because those people are not going to like this show. They're not going to have fun.

You're not going to enjoy it. Turn around, take a hike, and have a good one. No fart feelings. It's fine. I don't hate you. And the rest of you there, you know what we're going to do? Yeah. We're going to shut up and give you murder.

God damn it. So let's do that. All right. Let's go on a trip. Yes. Shall we? We shall. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy.

We're coming from the West Coast. Yes. Up in Washington. So sticky. It was sticky, but nice. It was a beautiful area. Cool, crisp water. Nice So sticky. It was sticky, but nice. It was a beautiful area. Cool, cool, cool. Nice trees, and it was as nice as water.

Let's go to the complete opposite of that, shall we? Let's go to a not- Sticky for the wrong reasons? It's sticky because it's covered in probably bodily fluids or worse. Let's see here. Let's head all the way, the middle of America here, dead in the middle, actually, to Phillips, Oklahoma. Oh. Ooh, you excited?

It's dusty. Everybody's, I know you got family there, Jimmy. Everybody does. Everyone's got family in Phillips, Oklahoma. That's where we send them when we don't like them anymore. That's where we're like, you're going to Phillips. People are like, no. It is in the south central part of the state, two hours to Oklahoma City, about two hours

and 10 minutes to Dallas. It's in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. The towns around it are called Colgate. C-O-A-L. Colgate, because this is a coal. We'll talk about this. The Colgate.

Colgate is the name of the one town. Like a fence. Like a door for a fence. Centrahoma is the one. These are depressing town names of like, that town doesn't exist anymore, right? You're like, that's just an empty town. Centrohoma. That's a ghost town now, right?

That was bad. It's in Cole County. Okay. C-O-A-L. C-O-A-L, Cole. And it's for a reason. It's actually, the weird thing about it is, though, it's actually named to be ironic because the area is actually one of the leading producers of organic farming and is home to the largest

solar panel manufacturing plant. No, it's not. I couldn't even get through that. It's not at all. I tried to make a joke for Jimmy, where Jimmy would say, Really? I almost believed him. No, it's named there because it's all coal.

The mayor is just a man made of coal. That's all he is. He's slow-tugging his coal cock all over the place, leaving black smears all over downtown. The whole town is covered in fly ash. That's it, man. Just black smears everywhere. It's Coal County because back in the day, they pulled coal out of here and did nothing else and they're like

coal county just where coal is fuck it we don't care zero forethought and realizing that when they were all coughing up black shit that this may be bad for them doesn't matter it will probably change the whole fucking economy of the whole town one day when the EPA shuts it down. No idea. When it becomes an environment, when the EPA puts a yellow tape around the whole thing. Jesus Christ. We're all coughing up black shit. When you become Western Pennsylvania towns, West Virginia towns, like, well, there's people here at one point, right? They're not here anymore.

They either fell into the earth or died from the coal dust. It's a small town, .5 square miles. Yeah. It's a little tiny town around other towns. Zip code here, 74538, not that you're going to mail

anything there, and area code 580. No one will call you from here, I promise. It's not going to happen. They don't have phones yet there. They're still working. They're like,

we're getting it. Fingers crossed on AT&T. They don't have them yet. They're coming through. We're here in the next decade. We're getting phone lines. It's going to be good. I know that's not the Oklahoma accent, but these people.

It's close enough. These people, it's probably their accent. Motto, town motto, quote, the pearl of coal country. That's not actually their motto at all. They don't have a fucking motto. But look how easy that was. That was so simple. How simple was that?

There, you owe me five grand, assholes. That's what they give these marketing companies. I just made one for you. Enjoy. They had nothing. Nothing. They couldn't- There, a gift from us to you, Cole County.

All the fucking brain cells are clogged with fucking coal dust. Dust, man. History of this area. Fucking coal dust. Dust, man. History of this area. The Choctaw Native Americans here began coming in in the 1830s, not by their own choice. They were removed from the American South and forced there.

So, yeah, this was not a good – they didn't come like happy, like, oh, man, new start, fresh start. This is great. They were like, how many of us is left once we get here? Fuck. All right. Shit. I'm tired. Let's sit. sit yeah put up a tp this is terrific shit now they just said no there's where you'll sit is actually what they said they were like but i like it here they went no they just shook their head and pointed over there okay whenever we do this town we do notice how shitty the fucking indians had it man they really we're laughing at it, but it's terrible. Every show. They get fucked over.

It's like, well, they were diseased and raped and killed and put over here and pushed out of here. It's fucking horrible. I mean, we knew about it, but it's like, when you hear about the individual instances of it, it makes it much worse. It's every fucking show. It is every single show. It really is.

Oh, my God, man. This town started and based on rape. That's basically what it man. This town started and based on rape. That's basically what it is. America, founded on rape. Come visit. That's what it is. Come for the disease, stay for the rape. That's it.

That's America's T-shirt right there. America, founded on rape. Come on in. Fuck Christ, this is terrible. It's awful, man. Cole County was carved mostly from Shopaway County, which is now Atoka County, and the Pushmataha District also here. So there was Indian Territories, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory, all that sort of thing. They took the western three and one half mile strip of Cole County.

three and one half mile strip of coal county. They took that from the Pontotoc district of the Chickasaw Nation. So they're like, we'll steal this from these Indians, push them over there, and then the ones that have this land here will take that. Got it. Rather than, yeah, it's fucked up, man. Coal mining and agriculture were the main sources of employment. 1870s, the mining really picked up here and there,

which attracted large numbers of Eastern European immigrants here. The people would get mine permits costing $5 annually. Wow. And you would live and work in the area for $5 a year. That was like you actually gave that to the Choctaw Nation. Oh, that's nice. It was like a fee for them. If you want to mine their shit and live here for the next year, you've got to give them $5.

We're going to set up industry, and we're going to give you paper money that means dick to you. We're going to give you $5. We're going to give you that. And also, that was the deal. They were like, well, we'll give them $5. And the people setting this up with the Indians were like, it's from the workers. We don't have to pay it.

So we're good, basically. We're fine. Fuck their land and fuck their money, and then we'll be fine. Everything's great. So very nice. It's very, very nice here. We're going to rape their people and their climate and their land, and then we're going to rape those people's wallets. Oh, absolutely. That's the way it works here.

Now, coal mines opened in Lehigh and Colgate in the 1880s. Railroads were built to serve the mines, and also were responsible for basically Centrohoma and a couple other towns existing. There were just railroad stops, which is basically a lot of these towns. It's oil railroad. Only a few things make people find things in towns. It's just – that's it. A few more – oh, the railroads come and then people show up. It's either convenience or commerce.

That's it. Yeah, or laziness also, which is another thing that happens here. So the town is named for Henry L. Phillips, who opened a store and operated a coal mine. When the post office opened in 1892, he became the first postmaster. That's it. So that was hot shit back in the town, back in the day, apparently. In every town, it seems like. That postmaster guy matters.

I thought about it, too, because we were like, why the postmaster? Like, now, who gives a shit about mail? But back then that was your only. That was, yeah. That was your communication. The outside correspondence. If you, especially if you lived away from your family on the East Coast or something, that was how you were getting correspondence.

So that was like he controlled the correspondence of the whole town, I guess. Back then. He pretty much controlled your life. That's yeah. So I guess that's why I was like an esteemed position. We trust him with the mail. That's important to us. It's weird, man.

Very weird. Oklahoma became a state in 1907, and Cole County was organized then. Back then, Cole County had 15,585 residents. That year, Boone Williams of Lehigh was a Democratic representative at the first state legislature, persuaded the representatives to select Lehigh County as the county seat. They literally had a fight about this. People objected over it. This county seat shit, too. It's constant.

They had a special election in 1908. Citizens selected Colgate over Lehigh and Centrohoma. But because more people voted than were registered. What the fuck? They had voter fraud? Yeah, lots were registered. What the fuck? They had voter fraud? Yeah, lots of it. Lehigh sues, but the courts refused to hear the case because it was so corrupt and somebody knew somebody else. It's fucking ridiculous.

So that county seat thing, that must be, obviously I'm fucking dumb and I have no idea what it means. We don't know back then the importance of it, too. It must mean that that particular place gets more tax money. I'm sure it has to be. They probably dole it out. So then maybe that's what it is. They get to be treasurer so they can loot it as they see fit. Exactly.

They control the legal shit. They control a lot of things from there, I would assume. So first courthouse was built in 1909. Mining got to be at its peak between 1910 and 1916. They had thousands of people working in the mines at that point. That was World War I. Also, the economies there, Colgate, Lehigh, Phillips, Cottonwood, all these towns around there, they were great because there was tons of people there. Tons of people coming in.

Tons of work. Everybody had money. Not bad. They got a lot of Italian, French, Mexican, Slovakian immigrants came in there. I know the Italians came into the coal mines hardcore when they came in. That was just a lot of our people. If you couldn't cut hair or fucking throw down a pizza, you were in the coal mines. So not terrific for these guys.

Not the best place to be. No, not at all. And being as greasy as they are, all that coal dust. Oh, stick right to us, man. It's going to stick right fucking to us. It's not a good night. It's a bad time. Terrible.

Why would you come here it's fucking beautiful yeah gorgeous i've seen pictures of the beaches there it's fantastic i get why they came later right you know we had fascism and you know mousseline like my grandmother came she's clothing industry she left a you know a decimated world war ii shell of a country with no government and everything else i could see why she wanted to come in the 40s. And then you can control the garment district. Ah, you got all sorts of shit going on here. Control union fucking labor.

And then you get rich. So that's a good reason to be here. That's great. All these people lived in company houses and they got paid company script and had to go to the only shop at the company stores and they had company doctors and company hospitals and they were slaves is what they were. They'd import slaves, and they'd pay them so they could buy the food off of them to give back to them, which is what you do with slaves. Pay them menial wages, and then you give your paycheck right back to the company.

They pay them in script. It's the only place they can spend that money is with you, which is fucking slavery. That's exactly what that is. They were like, well, we can't. They won't let us have the blacks anymore, but them Italians are looking pretty good and greasy. I think we can get them down. They're greasy, so we don't have to dig the holes too wide. We can just push them right through. We slide them right down into the mines. It's pretty good, I think. They're going to be good at this. I think they'll enjoy it. It's not a problem for them. So,

yeah, strip mining companies came in after World War I, but the mine industry declined a lot because mining was mainly for the war. That's what it really picked up. And they came to this booming economy of wartime mining. And then the war was over. So you don't need that much mining at that point. Yeah. So the mines closed in 1921.

And then the Dust Bowl came after that. Fantastic. So that was years and years of crop failure. So this just place turned into fucking hell on earth in the 20s here. and years of crop failures. So this place turned into fucking hell on earth in the 20s here. Their population was 18,406 in 1920. By 1930, they had 11,521.

So this place just, I mean, decimated here. But don't worry, guys. You're 20 years away from Garth Brooks being born and saving y'all. Actually, he was born in another county. He wasn't born here. I think he was born in Oklahoma. He was born near Oklahoma City, I believe, which these people were probably like, Oklahoma City people think they're hot shit. They might as well be from San Franquero.

I don't know what the hell they're talking about. So, yeah, not great here. So the mines here reopened during World War II because, you know, you need shit during the wars. Who's that? Their boats require that fuel. Fucking lie. Yeah, we needed a lot of shit there.

A ton of it. They were closed totally by 1958 again. The population here in the county had 6,000 people at that point and kind of hovered around there. So this is just a decline, depressed. Yeah. It never recovered because you had the mines closed after the war, then the Dust Bowl killed all the crops, and then the Depression came right at the end of the Dust Bowl.

So it was like they're just a decade and a half of just being pummeled and having shit beaten out of them. And then the mines reopen again. They're like, well, great. It's the war. And then that ends. Like fucking Hitler can't even hold out longer. Come on, Hitler. Get your shit together.

It's the only town in America that only thrives during wartime. No wonder they root for war. No wonder they're like, come fuck with America. Yeah, please. We need to dig some shit up. They were mad at Hitler. They're like, you want to take over the world? Couldn't even last longer than that? Goddamn sons of bitches. I still got a mortgage.

I still got a mortgage. I picture that from the back of the room. He's the guy. They're all like, ah, fuck that. What did you do? Hitler, you pussy. And then there's like a four-second pause and then pause and one lone small voice. I got a mortgage.

Huh? So great. I love that guy. So, yeah, Jesus Christ, man. That was a fun little town hall meeting we just had. That was a good one. I liked it. We're pro-Hitler in this town.

Not us. They're pro-Hitler, these people. Pro-Hitler and apparently very worried about their mortgages here. Oh, that hurts so bad. Good. Good, Jimmy. That hurts good. So, yeah, they also had a lot of agriculture in here because the coal mines would close down here.

In 1910, there was only about 1,100 farms and it declined from there. Okay. So, not terrific. 1927, the post office closes. Oh, no. That's not great. Fuck. When the post office closes, you know your town is in bad shape here.

So, yeah, during the 40s, outside of the war mining, they also had more livestock than crop production there. They produced cotton, peanuts, pecans, corn, wheat, and fruit. They declined, though, all the way through it. At the turn of the 21st century here, there was only 586 farms left in the area. 1956. And all they're making is like a trail mix? That's pretty much it. They're like, we got this.

We got, this is, this is cold crunchies. We call this. This is a candy. It's made from, I mean, it's from coal. I'm not going to lie, but we put sugar and other things in it. So it's, it's actually not bad. It's nuts, fruit, and some, some goddamn coal. Your mouth will be black.

You'll spit black for like three days, but it's delicious. I'm telling you right now. And it will help the local economy. So why don't you... So, yeah. 1956... It's like chewing on a flint roll from a... That's exactly it.

From a flint roll. That's what it is. Gross. It's sugar-coated. You want to make it palatable for the kids. It's for the kids, Jimmy. 1956, the school left. They closed the school down.

That's a bad sign. It was annexed to Colgate. No mail and no learning. 1956, the school left. They closed the school down. That's a bad sign. It was annexed to Colgate. No mail and no learning. No mail, no learning. You want book learning or letters? You go to Colgate and get that because we don't do that here. Get the hell over to Colgate. We're done with mail and book learning.

One guy, I still got a mortgage. I got a mortgage. Oh, man, that's great. He's just shouting for years. That's great. There's some water running through here, some creeks. Oh, great. Jesus Christ. They're called rivers, but they're actually creeks.

They're just black sludge. They're just black sludge. And they're called, quote, the clear boggy and the muddy boggy rivers. That sounds great. Let's have a nice afternoon down at the muddy boggy river. What do you say Let's have a nice afternoon down at the muddy boggy river. What do you say, guys? That sounds terrific. So the peasants get their water.

Jesus Christ. That is fucking terrible, man. That sounds awful here. April 2005, the Cole County commissioners asked the sheriff to resign amidst allegations that he sexually harassed a female dispatcher. The commissioners voted unanimously to ask Roy Deck to step down, and he said he will never do that. Oh, my God. He will not do that.

He refuses. He's accused. He's 52 years old. He's accused of harassing an 18-year-old dispatcher. Of course he did. She said he kissed her. Oh, my God. And asked her to have a sexual relationship with him.

That's not sexual harassment. That's damn near rape. That's pretty bad. You can't do that, especially if you're, like, the sheriff. You kind of have to be a little better than that, I feel like. You can't just grab an 18-year-old and make out with her

and then be like, you want to fuck? You want to fuck? That's what he said. We don't. No, not at all. How about you blow me now or some shit? He said something horrible.

I'm sure he did. I want to know the quote. She's 18. I mean, that's probably older than her dad. Right. And she's like, that's disgusting.

That's gross. A population of this town, a booming, whopping, swelling 129. Get out of here town, a booming, whopping, swelling 129. Get out of here. 129 people in Phillips, Oklahoma. They have all but quit.

In 1920, they had 972 people. In 1920. In 1920. So 100 years later, they're down to $1.29. That's down 20% since 1990 where they had 161 people there. They are working their asses off to keep this town going. All 129 of them. Give up.

Leave. Just quit. It's over. It's over, guys. Sorry. Median age is a little older, about five years older than the average. It's 42.5. Male population, way more than the female population.

I don't think I've ever seen it so out of whack in the male side. It's about 55% male. Oh, wow. Which is outdoor jobs. Like I said, there's farming jobs. whack in the male side. It's about 55% male, which is outdoor jobs. Like I said, there's farming jobs. There's logging and shit. There's stuff like that. There's a lot of outdoorsy.

But with it this small, if two people have a girl, it evens it out. That's the other thing I was going to say. Any town where we have under 2,000 people, the stats are just so who knows because it could be one family fucking everything up for everybody or something like that family has 12 boys and it just ruins the whole yeah exactly because that guy can't shoot a fucking you know a double x this screws up the whole thing so married populations a little less it's about 47 it's normally 50 50 so there's more single people uh about twice as many widows because you're gonna get old people here-50, so there's more single people, about twice as many widows, because you're going to get old people here. For sure. I doubt there's people graduating from college and packing up the car and heading to Phillips, Oklahoma to start their life.

I don't see that happening very often anyway. I didn't even hear about this place until 20 minutes ago. No, exactly. Neither did I. Divorce population. Divorced is usually 11%. Here it's 25%. Holy shit.

That's what I mean. You have a few people getting divorced. Excuse the whole damn thing here. Single with no children, though, is 33%, which is usually about 10%. So if you're single with no kids and you don't mind getting divorced once you do get married, this is the place for you. There's not many people, but if you find any. Not a lot of jobs, I imagine. There's probably 129 jobs.

So wait for somebody to die and you got yourself a place. Now, race of this town, you would think, what, Jimmy? So Spanish. Actually, let's see here. We have 63% white, which is just above the average of 62%. 0.0% black, obviously. There's no black people here. 0.0% Asian.

That's not happening either. Are they Native Americans? 16% Native American. 42%. 0.0% black, obviously. There's no black people here. 0.0% Asian. Right. That's not happening either. Are they Native Americans? 16% Native American, which the average is 0.66%. Okay. So a lot more. This is the most we've ever had of Native American. Also a lot of two or more races.

About 5% Hispanic, too. Okay. They'll throw those fuckers. Sure. I think they might be greasy enough, too. Right. Let's see if they can squirrel them down a hole. There's a few dumb white people there that just think that those are some uh native americans i don't know

what the hell they are they're in engines or something i don't know uh religion 66 percent of the people are religious here uh which is uh it's 50 percent's the average but like i said small town who knows 0.0 catholic we don't play that shit in this town none of that shit here no no no catholics are not the uh the catholics of the central no no not at all bad stuff uh 0.0 lds either no mormons right no catholics no mormons we don't want none of your stinky things in our damn town god damn it 0.0 jewish 0.0% Muslim. What are we? Christian. You bet. I got a mortgage and I'm Christian.

It's nobody else. Just Christian. 73% Republican in this town. 27% Democrat, which is weird, actually, because this town up until the 2000 election, they always voted heavily Democratic in this county, and then it completely flipped. How the hell did they do that? Completely flipped it. It's a weird thing.

The 2004 election and on, it's just been like 75% in here. Oh, I have an idea. Yeah. We like war and we dig up coal. Sure. We like war. We like digging up coal. And a black guy.

Fuck that. This is pre-that. Pre-that. But they didn't like that either. I don't think that's sweetened the deal for how that this is pre that pre that but they didn't like that either i don't think that's sweetened the deal for how many is what i'm getting that didn't help uh let's see here unemployment rates about it's over nine percent here so it's a little high i would say uh average household income thirty two thousand five hundred bucks jesus which is about twenty one thousand less than the national average a lot more than i figured would be there

though yeah actually yeah you're not you're Manufacturing jobs, there's more of those here. Transportation and warehousing, usually 4% here, 21%. My Christ. So, like we said, though, it's small. That could be 10 jobs here. That sort of thing here. Otherwise, nothing's too far out of whack except for public administration. There's more of that than

normal. Cost of living, we say 100 is average par. Here, cost of living is 82. That's actually pretty high. Which seems high for this place. Health care is high because there's a lot of old people. Housing is a $35,000. Holy shit! They'll give you a house. Just live here, please!

Mayor Cole just said to move in here. Median home cost here is $65,000. Wow. Which is $185,800 is the national average on that one. So a little up for the home cost. He didn't have a mortgage. He was lying. It's only $36 a month, but it's something.

And I'm thinking about it. Don't think I'm not. It's a mortgage either way. Might not be a lot to you, but it's a lot to me, God damn it. Don't worry about you and yours. You don't worry about me and mine. You worry about yourself. I don't worry about you and yours you you don't worry about me and mine i don't know what i'm saying i don't know nothing i don't know what i'm doing i don't know what i'm doing i like that from the southern guy amazing uh the salaries here are the housing housing costs i'm sorry between uh there's's about 47% of the houses are between $60,000 and $80,000.

So it's cheap as shit, basically, to live here. It's very cheap. And if we've convinced you that the only place for you— I don't know how. I don't know how. This is the worst ad ever for Phillips, Oklahoma. It's, remember, the Pearl of Coal Country. See?

See, guys? It sounded terrible. It all comes full circle. I threw that on there. It's not too bad, right? A bunch of guys live here you can confuse with Lou Diamond Phillips.

Come on down. Every 4th of July we have a Lou Diamond Phillips impersonation contest. Last year, there was 27 people tied for first place, so it's a really hotly contested one. So you want to come in and watch that.

They named this town after Lou Diamond. I'm certain of it. So if we've convinced you to move to Lou Diamond Phillips, Oklahoma, we have for you the Lou Diamond Phillips, Oklahoma real estate report. Let's get to it. All right, we're going to get to it eventually. After Jimmy is done having a stroke. Oh, my God. And Cole, when you compress it, it makes a diamond.

It's perfect. This is coming together for Jimmy on multiple levels. He's rocking his chair. Holy shit. And I've never seen his head right. That's so great. We have for you the real estate report.

Okay. Here we go. I gotta get through this. It's hard to do. All right, yo. All right, we have average two-bedroom apartments here. It's about $658, which is cheap. And it shouldn't be cheap. It should be cheaper than that. All the houses are in nearby Colgate.

Oh. It's bordering there. Nothing for sale in Phillips because it's a dump and there's nothing for sale. We have a two-bedroom, one-bath, 820-square-foot beauty. It looks like a complete shithole dump outhouse. Of course. For $54,500. Deal.

Wow. Got that. A three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,200-square-foot little brick house that doesn't look terrible. $84,999. Jesus. Not bad. And a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,000-square-foot house with some yard to it. $145,000.

That seems steep, though. That seems steep. I'm not paying $145,000 to live anywhere near here. Things to do. Yeah. It's so depressing here. Yeah. When you Google...

This is amazing. When you Google Colgate Oklahoma Festival, the fourth thing on the list is Brown's Funeral Service. What? That's not a festival. You could die here. That's the closest thing they have to funerals. Well, a funeral is kind of like a festival, right? Everybody gets together.

They drive. We had a barbecue and shit. What's the difference? In a parade, everybody drives down the street in a straight line. Funeral, we do the same thing. Fine. Put it on the list. Thing to do. They also have a 4th of July parade where

people toss chunks of coal from their floats to underprivileged children, which is probably true. I'm not going to say it's not true. It might be true. Crime rate in this town. Property crime. Crime rate in this town. Property crime is exactly average in this town. Violent crime is well above average, about 50% higher, which that could have been three people killing each other. Like we said, we have no goddamn idea because it's so fucking small.

Sure. But we're going to talk about some really, really interesting people here. These people came here on purpose. Yeah. Which, right away, they weren't born here. Red flag. Red flag right there.

This is, wow. Let's talk about it right away. Let's talk about someone who came here voluntarily, like a crazy person. Let's talk about Jesse James Cummings. Uh-oh. Jesse is J-E-S-S-I-E.

So this is a gal? No, it's a boy. It's a guy. It's a guy. It's a boy named Jesse I-E. It's so weird. They call him Jesse James Cummings Jr., but he's not a junior. Okay. On all of his stuff it says junior.

Even though he's not a junior, his dad not only has a different middle name, but spells his first name Jesse. Jesse, plain, without the I. So I had no idea how that happened. More than likely these people honestly forgot how they spelled something. I'm dead serious. When I tell you about these people, you're going to go, yeah, they had no clue how to spell names on a birth certificate. And they definitely don't know how junior works. They're lucky they just didn't call it boy.

Like literally, that's what we're talking about here. This fella here, Jesse James Cummings Jr., just Jesse, he is the second youngest of a bunch of kids here. We'll talk about exactly how many. Seven kids, as a matter of fact. Yeah, seven kids. He's the second youngest. His mother was a very, very bad alcoholic and would regularly beat him and his siblings, would whip them with items and whatever they could get their hands on.

Sounds to me like she didn't plan on having seven. No, she did not. It sounds like it was accidents. No let's talk necessarily accidents but accidents we could uh we know exactly what happened to her let's talk about her his mother's name is marie legg uh she was born in west virginia 1920 say no more uh there you go i'm seven we just described what that is through there not a lot of difference in west virgin Virginia through those times. So bad stuff here. She had seven different children by at least four different men. But a lot of it wasn't her fault, too.

So we'll find out the whole deal here. Now, Jesse and his younger sister, Debbie, were the last of the seven children born. Their father was Jesse S. Cummings, who is not James is his middle name. So there you go. Jesse spelled normally. He was born in Lehigh,ings, who is not James is his middle name. So there you go. Jesse spelled normally. He was born in Lehigh, Oklahoma, which is nearby. That's where this connection Oklahoma comes from. They spelled it differently and everything still called him that for some still called

him Junior. Marie had a tough life, the mother. And it turns into why she beats and has alcoholism and all this sort of thing. She had her first child, Eugene, as a result of being raped at age 13. Oh, for fuck's sake. Age 13. So we're talking 1933, West Virginia coal mine depression era rape, bringing her a child, which is just horrific.

Obviously, it's the worst circumstance for anything. That's the dark side of America. Yeah. This guy, her kid here, the first one, Eugene, was shot and killed in a bar fight in Arizona in 1969, which is some white trash way to go out. And I'm going to use the term white trash a lot in this episode. I'm comfortable with it. And there's a reason for this. Yeah.

This is a, we'll find out, but white trashism is used as a legal defense. White trashism is used as a legal defense. So, and I don't mean his culture. It's white trashism is on the court documents. We'll get into it. So he. I blame a lot of my problems on it too. We're all fine.

We're all comfortable with white trash. White trash. Let's run. This is not offensive. Moving on. So. I'm as white trash as it gets, I promise you. No shit. No, I know.

It's fine. It's good. It's all good. I say it proudly. We put a lot of hard work into being white trash. We're going to hide from it now? What the fuck? No, damn it.

So his mother, Marie, like we said, just a tough time. Dead son, the whole deal. She had a third grade education. Third grade education. Good Lord. She married her first husband at like 16 just to give a last name to her baby because that's what you had to do back then. They got divorced after a while.

So she married a guy named Pete Runyon. During that marriage, she gave birth to four kids, the youngest of which is named Judy Mayo, who we'll talk about a lot in this episode as Jesse's half sister, Judy. And then the other two, Jesse and Debbie, came later, adding up to seven children. Got it. This is so fucking confusing. That's so many kids. All these fucking people.

And they all live together. It's ridiculous, this whole thing. Wow. After Marie and Pete Runyon separated, Pete took custody of the children, and Marie married Jesse Cummings in Salome, Arizona, which I don't even know where that is. I know where it is. Where is that? It's

down south. Oh, okay. It's near... Say no more. Shithole. Dusty shithole, that's all we'll say. If it's outside of Phoenix or Sedona or Flagstaff... It's not far from Phoenix. Dusty shithole. Well, you know what? It's not goddamn. It's not far from Phoenix. Dusty shithole. It's not goddamn far. Guess what Phoenix is? Dusty shithole.

Trust me. Live dear forever. It's a beige nightmare of a tan shithole. It's southwest of Phoenix, just outside of Buckeye, baby. It's not far. Jesus, Satan. Fuck that. So that's where they got married there.

This is where they end up moving to California, where Jesse is born in 1955 in Modesto, California. And then they end up moving to Oklahoma, where Debbie, the younger sister, is born in Antlers, Oklahoma, which sounds like a top-notch kind of place. Now, Judy, the sister that we talked about, we called her Judy Mayo. Her real name, Judy there, her name was Judy Runyon. But her father, who I'm sure was a real nice guy, who, you know, this Marie is going to find the winners. Imagine what her home life is like if she was going through all that and dropped out of school in the third grade and all that.

I mean, she was abused horribly, probably. Well, I'm sure she picked a winner because this Judy's father that she married rapes her as a child. So Judy ends up using Cummings as her last name after Marie marries Jesse Cummings just to get away from her father. But the older siblings were all – there was a separation in age of – they were gone. There was no real contact between the first four and the first five and the second – and the last two kids.

Got it. Except for Judy. She was the one who kind of crossed over from there. If that's not confusing. If it is, let me know. This is fucking confusing as shit, but I'm on board. You're on board. I Got it. Except for Judy. She was the one who kind of crossed over from there. If that's not confusing. If it is, let me know. This is fucking confusing as shit, but I'm on board. You're on board. I got it.

Okay. Eugene, then three others. Right. Judy being the last one. Two more. All right. We got this. Father, Jesse Senior, sort of.

Jesse kind of senior. Jesse S. Cummings. There you go. He worked in the cotton fields and the lettuce farms and hauled wood and worked on general small machinery. Laborer. So he's a laborer. Yeah, he's a laborer. He is not a skilled guy or a white-collar kind of a cat there.

But hardworking. Hardworking. Could be a very great salt-of-the-earth man. He's not. No. He's not at all a great man. Has all the makings of it. He does.

Could be impossible. No. He's not at all a Kramer. Has all the makings of it but would be impossible. If you looked at him from the outside, you'd go, that's a good salt of the earth, hard working, middle American guy and then you look into it deeper

and you go, oh no, he's a terrible person. He's a monster. They're all monsters. He comes home stinky, drinks a beer and takes care of the family.

And I am going to, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that anyone Marie chooses is going to be terrible for them. It's not her fault. This is just, from her psychological makeup from her horrific childhood is going to cause her to make bad choices in people. It's just the way it is.

This is what happens when you treat women badly. Fucking treat them nice, God damn it. That's a fact right there. Now, during Jesse's childhood here in 1961, his father was sent to prison for five years. Jesus. Four? Yeah. I'm going to give you a guess.

Guess what he got arrested for. For five years? Rape? Five years. Nope. What? You'll never guess. What is it?

Cattle theft. What? I said 1961, not 1861. That's ridiculous. It's cattle theft. I was like, are you kidding me here? What the fuck, man? I guessed rape back then.

That's an appropriate rape back then. That's a fucking... That would be a normal one. That's an appropriate sentence back then. Well, you guessed that he would be charged for rape, which isn't going to happen here anyway. So, come on, Jimmy. What are we doing here? It's the 60s in Oklahoma. They're not charging people for rape. That's not how this works. Unless they rape cattle.

Well, that's fine then. They would say, we leave them cattle alone, damn it. They think our money comes from... Get your cock out of my cow. Get your cock out of my cow. Very nice. That's classy right there. That's class. Sounds like Oklahoma. It does. Sorry, Oklahoma. But you know what? That's how little we know about you. I've driven through there several times. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorite sponsors, Lisa Mattress. Lisa.com.

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Lisa.com. And now back to our show. I will say outside of Minnesota, though, the nicest people I've ever encountered are in Oklahoma. Yeah. Super friendly, nice people. Well, they have nothing to be arrogant about. That's the truth here, I would say here. Wow.

That is no shit right there. So the father is also, when he's not in prison, he's away working as a truck driver a lot, that sort of thing. He's not real present. And Marie is not great to be a single mother. She's an alcoholic, has no parenting skills, and has just a wicked temper where she will beat them at the drop of a goddamn hat. Well, and in her defense, too, she's got seven kids. She's a dropout from the third grade. That was raped when she was 13. Her life is horrible.

Oh, it's horrible. She's frustrated she can't talk to these kids. She's frustrated they don't listen to her. And she drinks because of it. Yeah, well, she drinks because of everything else, too. I can't imagine what kind of pain she's trying to drown out here. Well, I'm just saying I can understand. Yeah, definitely.

I drink like a motherfucker too uh well debbie uh this younger sister described her childhood is very very difficult and uh said that she and jesse were exposed to a lot of traumatic things which we'll talk about in a moment uh terrible things here uh jesse finishes school in the fifth grade that's enough i'm good that's plenty uh that's what else is there to know yeah i mean that's it uh he probably came home with a fifth grade test and the mom was like, how do you know all that? You're a genius. He's not a genius. Did I mention that he is also borderline mentally retarded?

Did I mention that fact? Because he is. IQ of 81. Fuck. So that falls into medically. So don't fucking bitch at me for saying that either. It's probably 20 points higher than me, so whatever. So borderline

here, that's what was, Forrest Gump was like 78, so this is what we're talking about here, I mean, but not kind spirited and with cardio to run across the country. An American hero? Yeah. Fuck Forrest Gump, you asshole. Lying sack of shit. You're just a lying dullard.

That's all you are. That's what the movie should be called. Lying dullard. It's not a documentary, James. Lying Cretan. That's what it should be called. Hate that son of a bitch. Right. Full of shit, Forrest Gump.

He would like to torture animals. Yeah. But he didn't have any of the other triad of, like, serial killer shit. He didn't bed wet. He didn't set fires. Okay. But they said he tortured animals, which, honestly, in the early 60s in oklahoma it's pretty common i don't know that that was considered like oh i'm gonna or if people just took animals apart all the time because that's

what they did because they didn't have anything else to fucking do like it's serious i've known people that are from like texas and oklahoma and they like played with animal things carcasses and they make shit out of the bones they all know tax taxidermy. It's weird as fuck. Hit each other with possum. That's so weird, man. Now, Judy, the daughter that we said, just older than Jesse, she married a guy named Henry Moody in 1960. She would often move to where her parents were around them. And Jesse, that was good for him because Jesse, a lot of times, when the mother was on a real tear, he'd run away to Judy and Henry's house and stay there.

Because Judy's 11 years older than Jesse. So she's kind of like a second mother. Tried to protect him from the mother a lot of times because she went through shit too with the mother. She knows. Now, throughout his adult life here, they would keep a close quarters together. They would always kind of be in each other's wheelhouses and in each other's orbits. Got it. So he would fix cars for her because he was good at fixing shit.

All right. Now, in 1970, there's an incident. His mother shoots at him while he's drunk, while she's drunk. Oh, my God. Yeah. One of these things here, these traumatic events here. Wow. And a lot of people saw this, by the way.

This wasn't just them. Jesse was a teen living at home, and his mother got mad at him. What was the witness? Other people saw this. Yeah, there's a bunch of people around. She was drunk, and he refused to go to the store to buy her more beer. Okay. So his mother got out a shotgun and started shooting at him as he fled from the house.

And she actually does hit him, and he ends up with nerve damage from this. Christ. He's got a problem there. It's unreal, man. He spends time in juvenile hall after some arrests for burglary and car theft and joy riding and that sort of thing. He ends up and we're now working in the cotton fields and the lettuce farms and drove trucks and repaired windmill machines and other small mechanical work with his dad is what he was doing.

So right in the same where it's just falling in this pattern everybody no one's breaking the cycle guys someone's got to fucking break this sounds like my family that's what i mean this sounds like a lot of people's families my stepfather's side of the family had a boy they lived in queen creek and they had a boy that basic he had nerve damage from a problem on the farm he got shot by his drunken mom he had like tetanus and like blood infection from feeding the hogs because they had wire around the hogs and he got cut on it. Oh, yeah. It's a disgusting life.

What the fuck? This sounds exactly like them. Yeah. And they were alcoholics to no end. I don't know where they're at now. I can't imagine many of them are alive. Jail dead. I can't imagine that boy's alive.

Working in lettuce farms. I don't know. Things like that, I guess. Sorry if you're working on a lettuce farm. It's a terrible, terrible life. I don't know. Things like that, I guess. Sorry if you're working on a lettuce farm. It's a terrible, terrible life. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. So 1972, Jesse, his parents, his dad, they've kind of reconciled, the mother and father.

They split up and get back together because, like we've said, divorce is expensive. And a lot of times, poor people, if you're very poor, you don't get divorced. You just get moved out for a while. and then it's just a muddled thing. That's what ends up happening. I just had a memory of that kid. They had a drainage canal behind the house that was like for – it's not a drainage canal. It was the irrigation that the farms would put their pumps on and water their – And that kid, there was an electric fence around it. Beautiful.

And he would take frogs and hold the back legs and the front legs and then drape them over it when they were soaking wet. That's nice of him. He's a good guy. He's probably not alive. I would assume he's done stupid shit. He's probably, yeah. He sounds like the kid I know that stepped on the tetanus nail.

Yeah, yeah. It was like that kid, just feral. He probably invented the phrase, hold my beer beer or hey, y'all watch this. Yeah, he's like, I came up with the koozie. Right. Fucking idiot. 72, Jesse, his parents, and Judy, the sister, they're all living in Visalia, California. He's sent to an adult work camp at age 17 for more burglaries here.

He leaves the camp without permission twice, which resulted in him getting an escape conviction and doing a little bit of time, but not enough time because in 1973, he's barely 18 years old. He says, I'm going to get married. I think I have the worldliness and the knowledge and the fifth grade education and the 81 IQ to know what's good for me in the future

at this young, tender age. All this nerve damage. I may need somebody to make the coffee for me. That's going to happen here. Now, who do I marry, though? I was going to be dumb enough to marry me. I don't know. A 15-year-old. That's it. A 15-year-old Margaret Helen

Yaws. They marry in Mexico because Mexico or Utah, those are your options for marrying a sophomore. You can't just go to the local church and marry a sophomore. That's not okay. The phrase sophomore just fucking surprised me. Jesus Christ.

That's what she is. Goddamn sophomore. She's going to get a note from her priest to Miss Gym Class that day to get married. What the fuck is going on? But how did they get to fucking Mexico? How did they get to Mexico? It's 1973. You just drive down through there.

It's a long ride. You got to go all the way through fucking West Mexico. It's 1973. You just drive down through there. It's a long ride. You gotta go all the way through fucking West Texas. You've seen the Beverly Hillbillies car. That's what they did. They sat her up on top and that's what happened here. Slap her in a rocking chair. That's it man. Now 76, 1976 Jesse is in a motorcycle accident. God I can't say motorcycle

accident in Portersville, California. He was going back and forth this time. Not on his motorcycle but just in general was going back and forth this time not on his motorcycle but just in general living between oklahoma and california probably was on his motorcycle i doubt this guy ever flew on a fucking plane i'm not surprised i doubt that now in 1978 he meets a woman named janelle uh and in subsequent reports she's also called janet okay but he calls her janelle in in something he writes and other people close to her call her Janelle, so I'm calling her fucking Janelle. Janelle Moore is her name.

She's 24 years old in 1978. So 24, at least she's stepping it up. This one doesn't have study hall in the morning, so that's helpful anyway. They meet in a cafe in Calvin, Oklahoma, where all the great romances start, in a cafe in Calvin, Oklahoma. Jimmy, that's where you met your wife, right? Yeah, we did. You caught your eye from across the room? Over at Sally's.

Over, yeah. It's named after somebody. You know it is. It definitely is. It's somebody's name. But it's like, you know, Butch's or Clint or something. Something where they only serve black coffee. That's it.

There's no creamer in this place. They do have that cold gum we talked about, though, in those machines at the end. You've got to put in a quarter. Or actually, that's the mint bowl is replaced with cold gum. Right at the front counter. It's right there. It's very nice. Jesus Christ.

This Janelle is with him one night when he's driving a truck hauling logs, and he rolls the truck over and has a Hugh Jackson. And imagine the mess that caused the traffic back up. What an asshole. I hate this guy already. He's a dickhead. He's just snarling traffic. Who's given an 80-something IQ guy a CDL to drive a tractor trailer?

He gets more than that. This is crazy that anybody has it. Yeah, they give him a CDL and say, here, that's a huge truck that can kill people. Why don't you take that? Jump behind the wheel of that shit. There you go. You seem stable. Wow.

So January of 1983, Jesse is treated at the emergency room of the atoka hospital uh and a few days later uh he's again treated uh at the mcallister regional hospital for a gunshot wound what when he has the worst life this guy it gets so much worse too like well then he it's karma basically it's like reverse karma the bad shit happened and they because they knew how bad he was and things were gonna happen it's like the universe knew he has some terrible fucking he has bad luck before that though uh this is he says it's accidentally fired a 22 and and he shot himself uh wasn't possible to remove the bullet now listen to where this was his lower left hip okay i guess if it was a handgun and a holster, I could see that.

Any other thing, I don't know how you shoot yourself in the lower left hip with a fucking rifle. That's impossible. Unless you're cleaning it and you've got it upside down. Like, got the barrel in your dick. And next to you and loaded. And what are you doing exactly? Yeah, that's the... Yeah, the barrel rests against your thigh.

Yeah. And you're like, what a dipshit. So, I think someone shot him. Yeah. And you're like, what a dipshit. So I think someone shot him and he didn't want to say who. And I have an idea who because we'll talk about his home life later. And I feel like he didn't want to say who shot him because, you know, it would cause more trouble at home. Put it that way. It wasn't possible to remove the bullet, though, so it's still in there. This caused him lower back pain and numbness in his left leg.

He's already got nerve damage. He's got more now. How many times can he get shot? Numbness. Now he's got to have medication, too, to treat his pain. But Janelle gets pregnant around this time. Oh, thank God. Because you want to bring more people into this mix, I think.

He's still banging. Oh, you know it. You know it. Now, 83, 84, Jesse's youngest sister, Debbie, marries Jimmy Smith. Throughout their lives here, they always remain close, Jesse and Debbie, because they grew up in the same horrible, horrible household. He often stayed with her as like a couch to

crash on. That's the thing. If you have a sister, guys, when you get... I heard this somewhere. Somebody said that. I don't remember who it was, but it's the most brilliant thing. Someone said, be nice to your sister. You'll be sleeping on her couch when you go through your first divorce. Someone said that to a child. And I said, that's the fucking most brilliant thing.

I told my son that. Be nice to your sister. She's going to be the couch you're going to sleep on when you go through your first divorce, buddy. So that's some real shit right there. And that's what he did. He kind of used her place as a place to live. They were close.

Now, they moved, Jesse and Janelle in 1984 moved to Batesville, Arkansas. Oh, boy. Yeah. Oh, boy. Because earlier in that year, though, Jesse and his dad were picked up by the cops and extradited back to Visalia, California on warrants arising out of theft charges. Sweet. So they're a fucking mess. My Christ.

Totally a mess. The charges ended up being dropped in the end because a witness didn't identify Jesse as being involved in the offense, even though he probably was because his dad. It's a weird thing. But they end up getting the charges dropped and Jesse comes back. I recognize that big guy, but the retard. I got no idea. I don't know about him. I can just tell by his face.

Unbelievable. Jesse returns to Batesville after he gets out of there. During the plane trip back, this is one plane trip here, the plane makes a sudden drop. It's one of those drops in altitude, and it ruptures his eardrum. Good Christ. Yes. What the fuck? So he goes under surgery for that, a lymphanoplasty of the left ear at Baptist Hospital in Little

Rock in November of 85. Unbelievable, man. He is my cousin. This guy is my cousin. He's a fucking mess. He's a complete mess. He has another surgery a little later on in the year because his ears are still fucked up from this.

Now, during that same period of time, a woman moves to Batesville named Sherry Mitchell. Okay. She is, she becomes, she's known Jesse in the past. Sherry, by the way, 17 years old. Oh, boy. And she is the third cousin of his first wife, Mary Helen. Sweet Pete. So what the fuck?

Genetic diversity. Stop fucking each other. Stop. Stop fucking each other. If you're from a town of 120 people, move to another town. Even if you like 120 person town, move to a different town with 120 people. Fuck those people. They're not related to you.

This is too much. Everyone here is related to you or your ex-wife. It's ridiculous. This is insanity. The genes are too close. Way too close, man. So Jesus Christ, man. So Sherry Mitchell here starts hanging out with Jesse, who's married to Janelle, obviously.

Sherry was not getting along with her mother, and also because a mother had a mentally unbalanced boyfriend who would run amok in the house, and so Sherry wanted out. Sherry said that she was attracted to Jesse because of his reputation for taking good care of his women and providing for them, and that she heard he had a big cock. That's the truth. There's a big rumor that Jesse's got a huge... Is that true? No, that's a fact. Jesse's packing some heat. He's got a crank on him.

He's packing some heat here. This is amazing. So she was like, all right. This is the best story ever, by the way. Oh, it gets so much better. This isn't even close. There's a part that's really, really sad, and then it's fine again and it's crazy fun and the end is great i am so impressed i was like how did i not find this story on the first run through oklahoma good lord this is

craziness so uh okay wow so uh yeah this this whole thing she's wants she wants him he takes good care of his way takes good care of his women out hear he's got a cock that can choke a mule. I heard the plane drop altitude trying to carry that dick. That's the problem. They told him he had to check it, and he said, nah, I'm stowing it under the seat in front of me, and it brought the whole damn plane down. That's what happens. This is an unbelievable story

i have not stopped crying since we started this fucking ridiculous it's so ridiculous this entire tale okay by the end of the story at the end of the story you're gonna look at me and go you fucking made that whole thing up you've spent the last six months writing this tale of ridiculousness i wish i could write this comedy i can't i don't have this kind of imagination uh so sherry begins hanging out with jesse and having a relationship and also you know don't leave her out has a has it also a lesbian relationship with janelle too so he's got he's basically he's bringing in a triangle situation in here this guy is fucking nuts.

How is he with an 80 IQ? He's figuring out. That's what I mean. How big of a cock do you have to have to have women crawling at you when you have an 80 IQ? And you work in the lettuce field. And all the problems he's got. All the nerve damage. He's a disaster.

How big does your dick have to be? This just proves. Well, number one, it proves there's not a lot of guys in this area. But it proves that it's a man's fucking world. Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, yeah, that's what it takes. Shit. It proves in a bad way.

Fuck, man. Sherry's from Jay, Oklahoma. She's the oldest of eight children. Her mom's name is Lahoma Yaws, and she had a variety. They call it, quote, a variety of men she had her eight children with. And we'll find out why it's important, why you know her mother, because she comes into play here, too. Oh, boy. Yeah, her youngest sibling is Lahoma Yaws, also.

Of course. They named the daughter that. Ridiculous. She's 10 years younger than Sherry, though. There's a lot of kids in between here. Sherry dropped out at age 14, obviously. Dropped out of school. It's understandable. She had

to drop out because she got married. She got married at 14. You've got to take care of the family. To John Rowe. Yeah. To a 20-year-old. What an asshole. Unbelievable. Hi, what are you, a freshman? Perfect. You bored with science class? How about we get married? What is happening? I was in high school next year, actually. I was held to marry you. Hi, what are you, a freshman? Perfect. Yeah. You're bored with science class? How about we get married?

What is happening? What is happening? I was in high school next year, actually. I was held back two years. Oh, you know that. Of course. You know she didn't breathe through it. She was in seventh grade.

Yeah. So Sherry says that she just wanted to get out of her mother's house because her boyfriend was, like we said, a guy named Herbert Pinkerton was an asshole and tried to molest Sherry. A Pinkerton. A Pinkerton, yeah. Perfect. So they were living in New Mexico at the time. Sherry was too young to marry in New Mexico, so her mother drove them to Texas and signed

for consent for Sherry to marry at 14. At 14. At 14. That wasn't even a Mexican marriage. She married him in 1982. They led what was called a, quote, vagabond life at that point. They'd live out of their vehicle of the Muggs. They'd have all different shitbox

cars. At one point, John and Sherry lived in a tent in Judy Moody's backyard in California. Judy Runyon Moody, blah, blah, blah. His sister. Jesse's sister. So that's how that came in. Obviously, you live in a tent in someone's yard.

Not even fucking inviting him in the house. Probably because during that time, Sherry had a reputation for engaging in prostitution. Holy shit, James. Where did you find these people? It's a fucking mess. These people existed. They existed very, very recently and very, very realistically. I'm blown away that

in Texas, as early as 1982, it probably exists today. If you got consent, you can probably marry a 14-year-old. I would not doubt that. Un-fucking-believable. You could see them trying to pass a law against him. People being like, No! Unbelievable. I got a mortgage. I need to marry.

There's a dowry. Don't you know nothing about dowries? This is awful. So they split up. John goes and lives with relatives in Colorado. They get divorced, finalized in 84. At least they actually got a legal divorce, which is interesting. 1985, Jesse receives a certificate of training from Rangers Security and Investigations for basic

armed guard training. That's who I want behind that weapon. What the fuck, Jesus Christ. No. He's not securing anything. No. In addition to the security work, he drove trucks. He repossessed cars.

Worked for bondsmen as a bond recovery agent. Yeah. He was arrested in Memphis, Tennessee in June of 85 on gun charges and he ended up, they were dropped when he proved that he was looking for a bond skipper and he was actually on a bounty looking for someone here. December 1985, Jesse's

parents were living in Cole County, Oklahoma. Beautiful, picturesque, scenic Cole County. The Pearl. The Pearl Country. And Jesse and Janelle and Sherry move as a trio to Oklahoma. They stayed in a travel trailer that was parked next to the house that Debbie and Jimmy Smith were renting. Oh, boy. His sister Debbie.

This is so confusing. His sister, younger sister, they were renting it in Tupelo. And so they were there. So now he's living in a travel trailer next to his little sister's rented house. This is some white trash shit here. Now, January 26, 1986, Marie, their mom, dies from cancer in Colgate. So Marie's long and troubled.

Honestly, I feel happy for her. That's just 66 years of just fucking turmoil and that poor lady, man, the shit she went through i mean i know she abused her kids and all that but anybody who has that kind of upbringing that's fucking horrific horrible for a woman like that that is horrific man to be raped 13 and have to keep the baby because it's 1933 i can't i can't i can't even forget imagine it i can't drop it on the third grade process that no it's it's insanity. It really is, man. So, yeah, they're all there.

Jesse was really hurt by his mom's passing. He actually took it really, really hard. Four months after the mother died, Jesse's dad remarries. Marries Pamela Gardner, who is a younger woman, way younger than him, with four young children, which is – I don't know why she's marrying this guy. This is insane. Fall of 86, Sherry gets pregnant, so that's nice. Perfect. But she discovers while she's pregnant that Jesse

is sleeping with her mother. Oh my god. This is so fucking amazing. I've been waiting to drop that one. What? This guy gets all the women? His cock is huge, Jimmy. I don't know that he was sleeping with the mother.

He was in one room banging one girl. He was next door from the travel trailer. He was going through a window. It's impressive, Jimmy. Holy shit. So Sherry finds out that he is sleeping with LaHoma, her mom. That's why we needed to know that. This results in an argument where Sherry stabs Jesse in the chest with a knife.

What? Okay. What the fuck? What is happening? I love this so much. This fucking story is insane. Okay, so Sherry has now stabbed Jesse. Sherry got mad because Jesse was banging his mom.

LaHoma, right. And so she stabbed him in the chest with a knife. And what is her name? LaHoma? LaHoma is the mom. Like Oak. Like Oak. LaH chest. And what is her name? Lahoma? Lahoma is the mom. Like Oak. Like Oak.

Lahoma. Exactly. Lahoma. This is a mess. This story is ridiculous. This is fucking ridiculous. Stupid. It gets so much crazier. So Jesse's now stabbed in the chest.

Jesse's stabbed in the chest. It's just, it's his flesh wound. He's fine. It's not, it doesn't need surgery or anything. No, she got him good. She didn't hit any organs or anything. He's white trash. You can take a stabbing once in a while.

He's a tough son of a bitch. It's part of your makeup when you're white trash. You're bound to get stabbed a few times. He's as strong as Lou Diamond Phillips. He really is. He's like Lou Diamond Phillips in Young Guns is what he is right here. That dude got stabbed to the forearm and they took the knife out and they rode on. That's what I'm saying.

What the fuck? No explanation of him getting stitched up. He's trying to honor the patron saint of Oklahoma, Lou Diamond Phillips, with his behavior. Jimmy, don't you know what's going on here? Ridiculous. So, yeah, so she cuts him. Yeah. I'm going to cut you, and then she cut him, actually.

This is great. Cheating with the mother and then getting stabbed by not even your wife. No. Your mistress, live-in mistress who also has an affair with your wife. Unbelievable. Who you've knocked up to. Right. Whoa.

So this is crazy. After this, pretty soon after this, Janelle and Jesse get a divorce also. I guess she's tired of all this craziness. She gets out in the nick of time here. Around this time, another one where you had Shaker. So he's worked in the lettuce fields and the cotton fields and mechanic. Driven a big-ass truck. Driven long haul.

So what do you think his next enterprise is? President? Armed security. Bail bondsman. Midwife training. What? He's going to deliver babies now, Jimmy. What else?

What did you do now? What midwife training? How do you go? This career path doesn't make any sense. This fucking story is just Mad Libs. It's just Mad Libs. Then he slept with her mother. And then she stabbed him in the chest.

And then he got a job. He started training as a midwife. That's ridiculous, right? This is a fucking game of Mad Libs. It's ridiculous. Now, this actually was put to good use because his father's new wife gave birth to a daughter in May of 1987. Oh, my God. Everyone's living in Arkansas at this time.

He helps deliver the baby and stops her bleeding, and then they go to a hospital after that. The doctor had Jesse sign the birth certificate as having delivered the baby, and he credited Jesse with saving Pam's life from stopping the internal bleeding and getting her to a hospital because he had midwife training. Good for him. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about audible.com. Do you like audiobooks? I am an audiobook junkie.

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small town to 500-500 to get started now and get your free audiobook book. Do it now. And now, back to the show. So Sherry, on June 9th, 1987, Sherry gives birth to a child of her and Jesse. It is Debbie Marie Cummings. He names it after his little sister, which is nice. That's nice. They get along.

That's good stuff here. This baby's born in Harrison, Arkansas, where everybody's born. I mean, everyone of any note that I've ever heard has been born there. Delivered by C-section. I guess he didn't deliver that one. No. I couldn't see him with a fucking scalpel coming out. Oh, calm down, Jesse.

You know, he may have. He may well have. You never know, man. So Jesse marries Sherry on October 8th, 1987 in Tupelo, Oklahoma. They're married by the family minister, Joseph Lester, in the home of his sister, Debbie. Of course. So they get married there. Summer of 1987, Jesse meets Loretta McCuller.

She's known as Loretta Wells a lot for some reason. We'll just call her Loretta. He meets her at a street dance in Tupelo. You bet. Which sounds horrible. Sounds like a lot of ball stink coming out of that place. A street. It's a sawdust on the floor. Summer. Summer in Tupelo, Oklahoma. And it's a street dance. God damn it. Wow. Why didn't I find that on Things to Do? And this isn't a cool electric boogaloo dance in the street.

This is two-step boot scooting. They're honky-tonking. Yeah. This is not good shit here. This is scary. This is god-awful. This makes black people not get off the exit when they go past here on the highway. There's a lot of white people boot scooting in the streets.

I think I'm having problems. I don't know why we're giving the black people the white guy southern accent, but we both just did that right now. I don't know why. Fine. It doesn't matter. I don't know why we're giving the black people the white guy southern accent, but we both just did that right now. I don't know why. Fine. It doesn't matter. I don't know. If you listen to Andre 3000, he's got quite that hillbilly accent.

That's true. And it is smooth as fuck. So they begin a sexual relationship, obviously, because his huge dick. She can't resist him at that point here. Loretta was living with her in a toka with her father and would spend a lot of time at the Cummings house in Phillips later on. Now, also, she says in addition to being a sexual partner of Jesse, she was also, quote, close friends with Sherry. We don't know exactly how close they were, but, you know, whatever. So Jesse and Sherry are married. Bill Billings say close friend.

They've seen him naked. That's what that means. Yeah, I assume all these people have seen everyone in this story. Everyone in this story has seen each other naked, I assume. For sure. Definitely. So you figure this is nice. They get married.

Sherry and Jesse, all is happy. Happy life. They open a small business where they sell rare Hummel figurines. That's going to happen, I figure, on the side of the road. Actually, no, he begins to beat Sherry and eventually makes her into a prostitute. So, no, that's not what happened here. He made her into a prostitute. Well, I mean, she, there was a thing that she did, and he was like, well, I mean, if

you're going to go out, you know, if you're going to be a prostitute once, might as well do it for me, too, because he's a piece of shit. You know what they say, happy midwife, happy life. Happy midwife, happy life, exactly. Good Christ, man. During this time, he dates another woman named Faye, but she dies in a car accident. Good Christ. This guy is just, don't go near this guy.

No. He's fucking doomed. His bad luck wears off on you. Yeah, he does. More bad luck. April of 1988, he's admitted to Valley View Hospital in Ada, Oklahoma for neck and back pain and headaches. That's from carrying his dick.

Well, it is. Also, he has a lymphoma removed from his neck. Fucking guy is the worst luck that he makes for himself, man. What a disaster. How is he still alive? Let's go. This is a mess, man. So 1989, Jesse and Sherry were living in Batesville, Arkansas again.

And Anita Lewis is another person we're going to talk to. Her real name is Juanita, but she goes by Anita. Anita Lewis becomes acquainted with them at that point, and sure enough, soon moves in with them. Of course. Moves in with them. Sherry and Anita have a nice little lesbian relationship going, and that's in addition to, obviously, Jesse laying the dick down on Anita also.

He's telling it. So now at Sherry's suggestion, Anita and Jesse get married. What? You can't do that. Well, apparently you can. Apparently it's okay in Oklahoma. So you can marry a sophomore in Mexico and you can marry as many people as you want in Oklahoma apparently.

So they are married, Sherry. So they do that. They get married on June 14th, 1989 with Sherry right there in attendance. As the fucking maid of honor. She was right there the whole deal. It's fucking nuts here. So Jesse had been a truck driver at this point and loses his job. He worked for Weaver Trucking and loses that job.

So then when he loses that job, Sherry, Anita, and the children and Jesse all move to Oklahoma. And they initially stay with Debbie and Jimmy again in Tupelo. But then they find a place to rent in Phillips. Exactly. In Lou Diamond Phillips, Oklahoma. You know where we're going. You know where it loops around to. Come on, man.

He lands in this little town with this brood of people that he's just dragging along. Jesus Christ. What a fucking mess, man. How did he do this? It's crazy. Now let's talk about Judy, his sister again here. Judy had moved to Tupelo in 1988 because her husband died in Arkansas in 1987. Okay. It's just a fucking mess, man. So then in 1988, she gets married again. Okay. They got to get married quickly. I'm not married right now. I'm not married. Do you understand that?

I got to marry somebody, God damn it. I got a mortgage. I got a mortgage. I'm surprised the marriage rate in this town wasn't 300%. Because they're all married to multiple people. 182% of the people in this town are married. Average is about 50-50. This town, 182%.

Everybody's married multiple times. Unbelievable. Everyone's in like four relationships. This is ridiculous. It's just musical chairs of marriage here. So she marries a guy named Eugene Mayo at Debbie Smith's house. She's just got the wedding center. Why not?

You got a travel trailer in the yard. It's romance. It's fucking practically Paris over there. What are you going to do? So that's in Tupelo on May 7th, 88. Now, Jesse, Sherry, and Anita move to a rental house in Phillips in January 1990. Sherry's only married to half the dick. Half the dick.

Well, there's enough of this dick to go around, luckily. Luckily, there's plenty. So in 1990, at that point, Judy and Eugene moved to Atoka County, the nearby county. They all stayed in touch with each other by telephone, frequent visits, and CB radio. Oh, my God. Yeah. Breaker, breaker one, man. Looking for my sister.

What the fuck is going on? Candy cane. This fucking story. I want to know their handles so bad. Midwives and CB radios and street dances. This is a mess. This is great. Oh, my God.

So this whole thing, she's living together. Things are sort of happy. There's some tension. At one point, there's an argument in 1989 where Anita tries to stab Jesse. He blocks it with his hand and gets a huge deep gash on his thumb, which results in some more nerve damage and a big scar. Yeah. Now she's got to feel closer, though, to Sherry. You know, I stabbed a son of a bitch too

yeah I get it I understand now first he was telling me about that I was like this fucking lady's crazy now I'm like yeah I fucking get it it's unbelievable oh man so apparently in this we kind of have to get an overview of this household now because it's a weird this is a weird thing he's a polygamist

married to two wives Sherry is the dominant personality. She is what pimps would call the bottom bitch of the house, I believe. She had the first wife kind of tag. She's the one. She was there first. You're moving into her house.

You're doing things her way. Plus, everyone said she was a skilled fighter. She was a fighter. She's not a stabber because he's still alive. She could fight, though. She was a fighter. She's not a stabber because he's still alive. Yeah, no. She could fight, though. She is known to put people in chokeholds. She's only 5'2".

Wow. She's a little weighty, not too big. She's a spider monkey. Yeah, exactly. They said she makes up for her size through brute force and strength. Good Christ. Many people have described her as being able to stand up to any man. Her sister, Lahoma

2, I love how they call her Lahoma 2 in court documents, reports that Sherry was capable of beating Jesse up in a fight. Jesse's like 5'9", but most of the time weighed less than Sherry did. He seems a skinny guy. You know, he's got all sorts of health problems and shit.

He's sick, for fuck's sake. He's got nerve damage and everything else. He drags skinny guy. He's got all sorts of health problems and shit. He's sick for fuck's sake. He's got nerve damage and everything else. He drags a leg. Yeah. In 1991, Sherry sent a woman named Shirley Cunningham to the hospital from injuries that they had from a bar fight.

I was just going to say over a pint of beer. You know that's going to happen here. She wanted her husband's giant cock, and she said, not you. Sherry also would keep Anita under wraps this way with physical threats. Anita said, quote, anybody that's seen Sherry fight knows she can kick like a bay mule. Have you ever heard that statement before? Have you ever? Never.

I've heard kick like a mule. Not a bay mule. She's specific. She knew a breed of mule. She said, well, you know, not them. A bay mule is really more kicking mules. Those bay mules really give you hell. That's a kicking mule right there.

She said, quote, she can fight. I mean, if you get whooped once, you're not likely to want to get the person back on you again. Sherry could whoop me without even blinking an eye, and she didn't need no weapon to do it. Good God. These are exact quotes, by the way. I'm not trashing this up, Eddie. I would say that Sherry controlled the household. Quote, most men are no match for Sherry.

Sherry pretty much ran the house. He would come home, Jesse, with money from either selling some shit because he would do junk. He would find junk things and sell them or some work for something. Or flashing his cock. Yeah, exactly. You don't believe it's 19? He just shows it. He shows it at street dances.

Five bucks. It's two bits of gander down at the street dance to see his giant cock. He drags a leg, not from the nerve damage because because that's the pant leg he's got to tuck in. I dress to the left, so I've got to drag that leg from the side. So apparently he'd bring – He's doing the dick jokes. There's a lot of dick jokes to go around here. There's so many.

So Sherry would be the one who would take the money to pay the bills and sort of that. She was like the – whatever. She controlled that sort of she was like the you know whatever she controlled that sort of thing he was gone uh overnight about one or two days a week uh with out of town work crap uh sherry was known as the one who ruled the house at that point uh they said that she would often use deceit she would claim that jesse uh told her to make somebody do something i don't want you jesse's the one who told me to make you do it that sort of shit when jesse didn't even know what the hell, didn't care. It was just her.

So Sherry often during this time, though, she'd do that, but she would also recruit women to have sex with Jesse. Really? That was the thing. Yeah. She would entice them with his reputation for being well-endowed, as she put it. But this was also a way where she could, because if Jesse brings a woman home, now she's got to fuck this woman

too. She might not like them. So this way was a way where she could go find women she liked to bring them home and have them fuck Jessie. For her, it was best of both worlds. She also had sex with tons of men around this time and area. She had sex with Judy's son, the sister. Of course.

Judy's son, Henry. Faye Martin is a friend of theirs. Her husband, son, Henry. Faye Martin is a friend of theirs. Her husband, Craig. Wow. Loretta is another friend of theirs. Loretta's cousin, Robert Atkinson. Debbie Smith's husband, Jimmy. Good God.

The little sister's husband, Jimmy. And a bunch of local men, a guy named Daniel Chick, who we'll talk about, and a guy named Cliff Long. Daniel Chick moves in with them. Okay. Jesse also always suspected that she was turning tricks on the side. Jesus. So it sounds like- Sex side. Jesus. Sex is her

thing. Sex is her thing. Her background, wanting to leave at 14, she was probably abused and this is her control thing here is all she has. August of 1991, Eugene Mayo, Judy's new husband that she married in 88, abandons Judy

and moves in with his parents. So he's gone. So where's Judy go? So Judy was real dependent on her, and she was upset because it seemed like he left because he had a girlfriend. Oh, boy. Also, her son James was in prison at that time. Jesus. This is the white track. A fucking episode, a 1998 episode of Jerry Springer.

Jerry would have just thrown his hands up and thrown his cards up and gone, I don't fucking know. All he has dispersed throughout the country. I don't know. Get away from each other. I'm done with this. You people are assholes. I know this is fake, and I'm still just done with you people.

I don't care. So she sent her son Henry to Arkansas after her husband left, along with James's wife, that's her son's wife, Mildred, who became pregnant. Oh, for fuck's sake. Who was pregnant now. So her son's pregnant wife, he's in prison. So she sent her there. This leaves Judy alone living with her 11-year-old daughter, Melissa Moody,

in their house in Tushka in Oklahoma. Now, Jesse had sold Eugene and Judy a flatbed pickup truck in 1991. The bill of sale had both their names, and they were making payments to Jesse on this. At the end of August, the truck was at Jesse's house for repairs, and Judy and Melissa stayed at Jesse's house while the truck was being repaired, which also made everything even worse in the house. Sure. Because now there's more fucking people living here, which is terrible. And let's talk about the living arrangements here. Wow.

They're renting a house, and I have the floor plan of this house right here. And I'll show it to you, Jimmy. Oh, boy. It's right there. That's not a good one. You notice something you're missing out of this? Bathroom? Bathroom is the house.

That's the main thing you're missing right there is a bathroom. Where the hell is that? Well, there is, quote, porch with portable toilet. Oh, no. So that is the bathroom. They've got a herpy hut on the patio? On the patio. Right outside the kitchen. Jesus Christ. When your pie the bathroom. They've got a herpy hut on the patio? On the patio. Right outside the kitchen.

Jesus Christ. When your pie's cooling. Hold on a minute. So you can make eye contact with someone while they're eating dinner and you're taking a shit, which is what you want in a house. Somebody's shitting out there while your pie's cooling. Wow. Now the apple pie tastes like Sherry's asshole. Everything tastes like Sherry's asshole.

It tastes like Sherry's asshole. Everything tastes like Sherry's asshole. Now, this fucking, this place, it's known as a dilapidated house. Of course it is. Without indoor plumbing, located on six acres. They were renting it for $5.25 a month. Oh, boy. Which still seems like way too much. But we said an average two-bedroom apartment was six-something.

But this was 20 years ago. And $15 a month to rent the herpy hut on the patio. Yeah, you got to do that. Wow. Whose job was it to clean the herpy hut on the patio. Yeah, you got to do that. Wow. Whose job was it to clean the shit bucket? That's my... They usually got somebody that comes by with a truck to pump that thing out. Oh, my God. Unless it's a makeshift, like a Home Depot bucket on the porch.

That's probably what I think it is. Now, this house is an old, small five-room wood frame structure sitting on cement blocks so it is bad stuff it's it's you want to know what it is it's exactly my cousin's house in queen well let's let's describe it further and see if this catches up uh the dining room was being used as the living room and the living room was being used as the children's bedroom jesus is that is that right there it's close enough uh jesse father, Jesse Sr., for lack of a better term, was living in one bedroom, and Jesse- It's not how that works. No, it's not at all how that works, but they think that's how it works.

God damn it. Jesse and his wife shared the other bedroom. Okay. Okay, so this, think about it. The kids are sleeping in the living room. There's a shit bucket. This house- It's horrible.

Is a fucking nightmare. It's a is horrible. It's a fucking nightmare. It's whoa. It's a fucking horror. It's this is just I don't even know what to say. Nightmare isn't even the word. It's it's just a house of horrors. You don't get to live like this. No, this is people live like this.

This is not normal. Oh, Jesus Christ. It's not normal. No, it's very not here. Very not. So you live in America. Yeah. Oh, Jesus Christ. It's not normal. No, it's very not here. Very not. You live in America. Yeah. No, they don't.

They live indefinitely in a third world country. Third world center of America country. That's what they're in. There's Haitians looking at this arrangement going, that's not good. You can't live like that. That's terrible. We will keep our AIDS. Yeah, this is fine.

Much better. Holy shit. This is Haitians right after a hurricane, too. We're like, no, this is still. We'll. Holy shit. Haitians right after the hurricane, too. We're like, no, this is still. We'll deal with the malaria. You know what? There's disease and everything, but we have running water still and plumbing, I think, here. I don't have a Home Depot bucket with a makeshift seat on it.

And kids sleeping in my living room. Right. So, yeah, they're all living there. Judy and Melissa were living in a rental home, like we said. Her ex-husband's grandparents lived across the street from Judy, and she was very close to them. So they were unbelievable. They were, like, you know, trying to help her. She found some solace in meeting a guy named Jesse Boone Wilson, another IE Jesse.

Jesse Boone Wilson. He recently moved in with Judy's close friends, Pat and Wayne Cathy, who lived in a trailer in Tushka. This is a mess. Judy met this guy at Cathy's house and started kind of seeing him a little bit. All class all the time. September 5th, 1991, Judy goes missing. No one can find Judy

anymore. We don't know where Judy is. She's gone. Yeah, this is all fun and games. This is small town murder here. So on September 8th, 1991, five days later, she was found hiding in the shit bucket. Perfectly clean, but very disgusting. So, no. Cummings goes to the Atoka County Sheriff's Office and reports Judy missing.

He also reports her daughter, Melissa Moody, is missing. Can't find either one of them, the 11-year-old daughter. He tells the clerk that friends had told him that his sister's vehicle had been seen parked at a toka lake on Highway 43 and that it had broken down and its hood and doors were open. He also reported what his sister and her daughter Melissa had been wearing at the time of the disappearance. He also said that possibly someone had picked them up from the car's breakdown site. He also showed them pictures of Judy and Melissa. Concerned family member. Looking for his niece and his sister.

But if they picked him up, wouldn't they bring him back to you, Jesse? You're the mechanic. That's the thing. Who knows there. He also did a bunch of work for her all the time. Now, the next day after this, Judy's body was found. She's found floating in a small pond adjacent

to Atoka Lake, where they said her car was. She'd suffered gunshot wounds to her head and neck, and her body was wrapped in a quilt and a mattress pad. Okay. The medical examiner's autopsy reports say that they couldn't identify the order of bullet paths of what came first, but they kind of figured out what happened here. They say the bullets came, entered, two shots entered toward the upper bullets of her upper body entered from different angles. So like she was moving or the gun was in a different place. She was shot. There's a bullet in her shoulder and neck area into there.

They recovered a bullet from there. Another one came, another bullet came through the right side and was taken out of her left side. So from the front and one from the back? Yes, there was a gunshot wound in the, this is, she had such a hump back that the medical examiner said, quote, the gunshot wounds to the hump in Judy's upper back

were a through and through shot. She got shot through the hump, this poor woman. What a terrible way to go. Terrible, man. Another shot entered Judy in the mid-chest area, traveled downward to her right leg. Oh, my God. Another bullet was recovered from her belly. So the trajectory of these wounds say there's a lot of different travel paths, two wounds in the neck. It's a fucking mess, basically.

There's an entry wound in her right breast that takes a sharp upward shot. So she got shot up bad. Yeah. She really did here. It's like somebody was doing the watermelon crawl around her and just firing willy-nilly. Absolutely. This is nuts. And another key piece of this that they found is that in the autopsy, they found that on the calf and Judy's right leg, there's a large abrasion on there.

They end up figuring out that it's premortem, though. It's before she's dead. Before she's dead, too, because the evening before her death, she'd gone out drinking and dancing with her father at Roland's Bar in Lehigh, leaving Melissa with Anita where Anita worked nights in a toka. Got it. So I'm going to go out to the bar, and I'm going to leave my daughter with this lady

at her job overnight. That's fucking terrible parenting is what that is. Sorry, but it is. Got it. So I'm going to go out to the bar and I'm going to leave my daughter with this lady at her job overnight. That's fucking terrible parenting is what that is. Sorry, but it is. It is. Yeah, there's no evidence, though, to suggest that she had a leg injury the day before she disappeared. She also went on a shopping trip to Colgate the morning of her disappearance, and nobody mentioned seeing an injury to her leg.

The injury was enough to where it would have made her limp or something like that. She would have at least complained about it. It wasn't, you know, whatever. October 16, 1991. There's a Choctaw County volunteer fireman named Brian Wilkins who's loading his fishing gear into his truck, and he's heading out toward the Clear Boggy River, a river that we talked about just north of Boswell. He's a fireman.

He's going out driving. He's just going out to go fishing here. He knows where he's going. He knows where he's going. It's a fishing hole here. He gets out, looking forward to fishing for the day. He gets out and strolls up toward his hole, and nice fresh country air, and then he starts to smell something else.

Oh, no. And he starts to smell something else. Oh, no. And he starts to smell a bad stench that stops him in his tracks. Decomposing 11-year-old. Like a bad decomposing smell here. Yeah. He said the smell was so bad that it smothered him and he battled to keep his lunch down. Oh, God. So he puts down his tackle box and everything.

He goes over there. There's metal railings and there's a bridge that goes to the woods. And he starts looking for something to find it. He spots a small trail leading deeper into the woods. So he goes into that, follows that. And he ends up finding... What's on the trail? He ends up finding what he thinks is a small decaying animal sprawled on the ground and partially covered

by brush. So he hurries toward it and he stops short of this animal because he sees the bones. And they're not animal bones. It's feet. He sees human feet. He now feels like it's a person and he slowly

bends over and checks it out and sees that there's a skull, a smaller skull, a human skull with a few strands of long brunette hair. Oh, boy. It's fucking horrible, man. The skin had been, you know, the hot sun and the elements too. The skin that was there on the other side had been, it was horrible, man. Muscle tissue had been eaten up. This poor guy too. I hate to be been eaten up. This poor guy, too.

I hate to be this guy. That'll ruin your whole life. He freaks out. Saddest thing, too. This is so terrible. On the left wrist were four friendship bracelets. Oh, fuck. Remember the ones with the little strings tied together?

Damn it. How fucking sad is that? His daughter has those, so he recognized that this was a child at this point. Well, at least a child. Yeah, he went and called the police, and they went and found, and it was Melissa. It was Melissa Moody, age 11, which is horrific, man. Fucking horrible. In the woods, dumped like that.

Fucking horrible, man. October 22, 1991, Jesse's father has a heart attack. He's admitted to the hospital. When he finds out what happened? When he finds out the size of his son's cock, I think is what it was. November 2nd, 1991. That's not from my side of the family, God damn it. I'll tell you that right now.

He ain't mine. November 2nd, 1991, his father is released from the hospital, only to die two days later. Wow. So father's dead now. His funeral's on November 6th. Jesse, right after that, files for disability benefits because he's a physical disaster. Yeah, he's a mess.

He's a mess. He should have been on disability in 84. Yeah, after all of that, after the logging truck rollover, that should have been enough. Unbelievable. November 22nd, 1991, they bury Melissa Moody at the Lehigh Cemetery. Her stone is very nice.

I saw her stone. It says, tread softly, an angel lies here. So that's nice. They have a nice little thing on there. And she has a nice stone, which is good. And it's more than I can say for Judy. I'll tell you about her stone later. It's fucking sad, man.

Now, 1992, Jesse has a hearing held for the benefits that he wants. He's eventually awarded the disability. So during this time that all this is going on, there's more people living in this house, by the way. There's more people. Daniel Franklin Chick moved into their house. That was the one that Sherry was screwing around with. He was 23 years old. He'd been hanging around right around the

time this happened. He'd been hanging around the house all the time for weeks. He would earn money by helping Jesse with odd jobs. He had two daughters at 23 and was chronically behind in his child support. As of March 93, he owed about $6,000 in child support, which that was probably 10 years and for what his child support could have been. Unbelievable, man.

So while this is all going on now, this happens in 91. They don't know what happened to these two. Time goes on. They got bodies and no case. Who knows? Who knows what happened? So time goes on. Other people bodies and no, no case. Who knows? Who knows what happened? So time goes on. Other people move in.

Like we said, those people move in. At one point, Chick and Sherry tell a close friend that they wanted to, that they're in love and they want to run away together. Oh my God. So that's, that's dangerous now. So now July 24th, 1994, Jesse and Anita go on what's described as a quote, major food food shopping trip, which in there, I don't know, is that just huge jars of mayo? It's a whole flatbed truck full of jars of mayo. Pallets.

Pallets of the shit. Oh, my God, man. Costco mayo. Yeah. Yeah, no shit. So this is 1994. This is three years later at this point here. Now, this is Jesse's story. Jesse's story. This is not the truth at this point here. Now, this is Jesse's story.

Jesse's story. This is not the truth. He says that on the way back, Anita tells Jesse out of nowhere, I shot and killed your sister. I shot and killed your sister. That's it. That's what they say. They get into an argument on the way back over this, obviously, because that would be a source of tension. There's going to be some questions.

Anita had told him, according to him, that she's always gotten the short end of the stick in this marriage because Sherry is the one in charge. And that now she has to share Jesse with all these women and even more women. And also his health problems lately. And that summer he lost all his teeth to a medical problem. Oh, for Christ's sake. Had made him less attractive to her. And she was looking for a man that would give her his undivided attention and not have four other women and a huge cock and no teeth. Right. So he says that on the 27th of January or July 1994.

Any evidence that he knocked him out himself so that he could blow himself? That's possible. Yeah. This is going to be good for me, I think. I think this is going to work. I don't have to bang any of these women. I can just do it myself. Fuck this. He says

July 27, 1994, Anita told him that she wanted to leave him. He said there was a bunch of people at the house that night. Chick, Cliff Long, Shirley Cunningham, the one that Sherry beat up three years ago and got charged with hanging around there., Shirley Cunningham, the one that Sherry beat up three years ago and got charged with hanging around there. Sherry Cunningham's kids, Vicky and

Orlin Yaws, and Omar and Mandy Bayless. And they're all shitting in the same bucket. They're hanging out in a house with no bathroom. That's the best quarters they have. Out of all those people, this is the best house. I won't even go to a gas station that doesn't have a bathroom.

How do you sit in a place with a television and all these people and sit down to even have a conversation? I won't stop for a bottle of water at a gas station without a bathroom. No. No. Jesus Christ, man. These people are actually spending time somewhere with no bathroom. Which leads me to believe they had the nicest house of the group, which is, that's frightening.

That's scary right there, right? They had the nicest, well, we'll go over there because their house is much nicer than ours now. We ain't even got a shit bucket. We just have that hole out back now. You can't be asking people to shit out in a hole. Unbelievable. We got to provide a bucket for our guests.

This is stupid. This is insanity. This is so stupid. So he says that Anita told him that she killed Judy just to – because she thought that that would make Jesse kick her out of the house. And she wanted to be kicked out of the house because she didn't want to be with him anymore. So she said – that's what she says. In reality – Oh, the logic.

In reality, in the summer of 1994, Juanita went to work for a minister named Edward Fields as an assistant, and she told Fields that she had shot Judy in 1991 and that Jesse had made her do it. And she felt guilty about it. She also said that Cummings wanted her to kill Melissa, but she said she got sick and couldn't do it. She told Fields that after she killed Judy, she went to work, and when she got back, couldn't do it uh she told fields that after she killed judy she went to work and when she got back judy's body was gone and so was melissa and she never saw him again okay that's the story that she told she's telling that story she's telling that story to a minister to a minister named edward fields that she's working for yeah that she's unloading her guilt yeah basically so july 28th 1994 they arrest everybody good

fucking everybody minister's like not he's not putting up with it no he's not gonna hold that one this was uh literally like a week before she told him that and everyone's arrested a week later fuck this shit not happening lock them all lock them all up so uh jesse claims to know nothing yeah uh ladies say he abused them because he did uh sherry said quote i I always did what Jesse told me to do. Jesse had the habit of saying something and not be serious. Then he would ask somebody to do it just to see if they would. She would do it anyway just in case he was serious.

That's an interesting way to live her life. I would say so. This is a crazy abusive asshole here. Having women do his bidding for him like a dickhead. Anita said, quote, if I didn't do what Jesse told me, I'd get into trouble. If I had questioned him, he would have gotten mad. I didn't leave Jesse because I was scared for him like a dickhead. Anita said, quote, if I didn't do what Jesse told me, I'd get into trouble. If I had questioned him, he would have gotten mad. I didn't leave Jesse because I was scared of him. I'd seen the things he'd done before.

I was afraid of Jesse and Sherry when I shot Judy. That's the exact statement I expected. Exactly. Word for word. Jesse, she says, Anita said, quote, Jesse was abusive to both of us starting a month after I married him. The first time was the end of July 1989. He blamed it on a car wreck and had me go to the hospital. He had her go to the hospital and say she was in a car accident because she got beat up so bad.

He was abusive to Robbie, too, which is her son, starting around the same time. I wrote the love letter to Jesse. He wrote there's this love letter that I'm not going to get into. It was just a stupid fucking. I have stupider shit to talk about. That's funnier than the love letter. After, I wrote the love letter to Jesse after he knocked my teeth out. That's the kind of abusive relationship.

That's how much she loves him. That's how much he has. Yeah, exactly. Fuck. Jesse, how do I love thee? Let me count my bicuspids. Let me count the teeth. Oh, Jesus Christ. my bicuspids. Let me count the teeth. Oh, Jesus Christ.

The bicuspids. So she also said it was not uncommon for Jesse to handcuff one of the kids. At times, Jesse would cuff Robbie or Brandon and have them cuffed and just leave them there for hours at a time here. them cuffed and just leave them there for hours at a time here. Sherry said was – Jesse was the one who controlled everything because she's saying that Sherry was also in on the handcuffing. Sherry said, quote, we did whatever he told us to do or we would get into trouble. And then Anita said that Sherry beat her up several times. She said, quote, I didn't want her whooping on me anymore.

I knew she could do it. Sherry was pretty much the one that told me what to do. Although Sherry controlled, it was more Jesse who controlled. We did whatever he told us or we'd get into trouble. Uh, so then, yeah, he says he was afraid. She was afraid of Jesse, uh, all the time. She said that he, she felt he would have found her regardless of where she went. I feel bad for this woman. And, and, and his muscle is the bay mule. Yes, exactly. He's got a muscle. She said, quote, Jesse hit us and did different things. He punished us in different ways if we didn't do what he wanted us to do.

He had a bullwhip that he used to hit us with. Oh, my Christ. He used that mainly when I wouldn't eat. I had a problem with eating. I would go three to four days without eating. Then I would eat a lot. I weighed 103 to 108 pounds. He was sending me to the doctor or he got to

watching me, which that's called anorexia. And you should be seeing a doctor, but you shouldn't be beaten into a bullwhip for it. She doesn't know that. There's kinder, gentler ways to do that. Yeah, that's a problem with eating. That's not eating for three or four days and then binging and purging is not great. That's not good for you. No, not good at all.

She also said, quote, he left me handcuffed to the bed for long periods of time or tied up to a bed without any clothing on. One time he put sleeping pills in a soda pop. There's been all sorts of bruises and stuff. Right after the murders, he hurt my leg. So this is a mess. She also said I was afraid of Sherry because she could kick like a bay mule. She said that line there. She said, quote, we never talked to each other because we were afraid he would start trouble between us. There was a lot of fear in the household. I was mostly afraid of Jesse.

I was afraid Jesse would kill Robbie. I asked Robbie if he wanted to go with me if I left, and he told me yes. So that's the whole thing there. Sherry is also arrested. While she's arrested, she makes a friend. Jesus Christ. She becomes acquainted with a guy named John Wayne Engel, who is visiting his wife

who was incarcerated there. What? She somehow hooked up, hooked into a guy who was visiting his incarcerated wife there. As he's leaving, she's like, hey, visit me too. Yeah. No shit. Fuck, man. What? After a few months, Sherry had to be transferred to another

facility because of constant problems with other female inmates, her fighting. She was moved to a Toka County jail, where then she married John Wayne Engle. What? On Valentine's Day, 1995. That is so romantic. He was a transient truck driver, 19 years older than her. That's who she married. Who was visiting his wife in county jail.

This is fucking unreal. See, you couldn't make this up. I couldn't make this up. How does he? You couldn't. Holy shit. And he's a transient. So, like, he's got his own truck?

Or, like, what is that? What is a transient truck driver? I think he doesn't have his own truck. He just goes from high. Okay, he's just, like, contracting? Yeah, he's. Blowing through town? Like a, like, free, what's it called? Free. He just goes from high. He's just like contracting, just blowing through town. Like free, what's it called?

Free grazing? What's it called? Free, what's it called? Freelancing. Okay. Freelancing. Freelance truck driver is the better way to put it. I had every word except for freelancing.

I said free grazing. Sounds better than transient. That's probably more like it. Free grazing on whatever McDonald's dumpsters he can find. That's probably more like it. Free grazing on whatever McDonald's dumpsters you can find. This marriage does not last long because Sherry reports that she learned he was still married to his first wife who lives in Oregon. She didn't know?

Didn't know. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Now she cares. Wife! Oh, yeah. I said that and I stopped and you were just like, she didn't know. And I'm like, no, no. Keep digging. There's more.

There you go. He's got a wife in Oregon. You're finding it now. He's got a wife in the county. Oh, it now. He's got a wife in the county. Oh, yeah. He's got two wives in the county. Oh, yeah. He's killing it more than Jesse is.

This guy's amazing. Insanity, man. How did he let that? How did she find out about that? He just, like, let it slip. Who knows? You know, my wife is real. She's a pain in the ass back in Oregon.

Wait, wait. Did you just say Oregon? Did you say wife? What was that? She saw Engel last- You mean Oregon County? Is there another county? Is there a county?

It must be a county up in western Oklahoma. Last time she saw Engel was in January of 96. Yeah. When they ended their relationship, which then she was trying to get a divorce for about a year because she had a new boyfriend that she wanted to marry. Of course she did. Of course she did. Yeah, this is insanity, man.

Wow. So. She is slinging that jine everywhere. Fucking everything, man. She is unbelievable with it. Everyone in this story is a disaster. August 1st, 1994, Cummings is charged with all the shit he's charged with. Count one, murder in the first degree for Judy, murder in the first degree for Melissa.

Charge three is child abuse of Melissa because we'll find out why that is. And the state also files a bill of particulars indicating that it intends to seek the death penalty against Cummings. And because of the existence of two aggravating factors, that the murder of Melissa Moody was committed for the purpose of avoiding or preventing

lawful arrest or prosecution because they thought that she would notice that her mom was gone. Possibly tend to tend to snitch those 11 year olds. Yeah, no. And and to the existence of a probability that Cummings would commit criminal acts of violence that would constitute a continuing threat to society. I would fucking say so. Count three specifically charges Cummings with feloniously sexually abusing melissa moody a minor child of 11 years uh also while responsible for the well chairs welfare of said minor not fucking good no scumbag to the utmost degree this is the end to the end uh trials in 1996 uh prosecutors are

saying that he killed his sister judy uh had her killed dumped, dumped her off in the lake there, and then he molested Melissa before killing her and then dumped her body in a remote area of Choctaw County. They basically think that they dragged her. We'll find out. We got testimony. All right. We want to find this out here because it's fucking horrible, man. Also, Juanita is charged with first-degree murder for the death of Judy, and Sherry is charged with first-degree murder for the death of Melissa. They were dropped.

The first-degree murder charges end up being dropped against Sherry because she enters a plea agreement and pleads guilty to two counts of accessory after the fact and one count of permitting a child to be abused. First-degree murder charges are also dropped against Anita, and she pleads guilty to second-degree murder. First-degree murder charges are also dropped against Anita, and she pleads guilty to second-degree murder. Both of them, right from the beginning, separately implicated Jesse in everything. They all said he made us do it from the very beginning. So they take a deal to testify against him. Sherry testifies that on September 4, 1991, Jesse told her to take his sister Judy to look at houses because she was looking for a new place. Of course.

And to shoot Judy from behind when they got into an empty house. The next morning, Cummings left early to shoot, not to shoot, to drive his father to the hospital in Oklahoma City. That's his excuse the whole time is, I was gone in Oklahoma City. He did like, I have an alibi. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, you had your hit squad, your goon squad carried out for you, asshole. Is there any reason why he's doing this, though? Like, why kill her? Well, it's just she's around too much, and there's also more, too, because there's also life insurance and other things involved in this whole thing.

So he wanted a bathroom. Yeah, he was looking for a real toilet. That morning, Sherry took Judy to look at houses. She didn't shoot Judy while they were looking at houses. When they finished looking at houses, they returned to the Cummings residence. Sherry, Judy, and Anita watched TV in the house, and the kids, Deborah, Robbie, and Melissa, were outside. Judy indicated she was ready to leave. Sherry went to the bathroom, and she said while she was gone, she heard five gunshots, which also lines up with what Anita says

because Anita says she shot Judy in the living room five times. And she says she was on the couch and she was moving and Anita was trying to shoot her, and that's where all the different entry points came from. Sherry says when she came back to the living room she saw Judy sitting on the couch slumped over. She says that Anita had shot her. Sherry and Juanita brought all three kids into the house, covering their eyes when they passed through the living room, she saw Judy sitting on the couch slumped over. She says that Anita had shot her. Sherry and Juanita brought all three kids into the house, covering their eyes when they

passed through the living room. You just heard fucking five gunshots. Now say cover your eyes. Where's mom? Don't worry about it. Cover your eyes. Oh, boy. They then pulled Judy through the house and outside into the cellar.

They cleaned the blood off the couch and the floor and the living room wall. After they cleaned it, Robbie and Debra went back outside, and Anita left to go to work at the Dairy Queen. Wow. Melissa stayed locked in the back room. They kept Melissa in the back room because she couldn't get out because she's going to wander where her mother is. So they lock her in a fucking room.

Anita returns from work 11 o'clock that night. That night also, before Anita returned from work, Jesse had returned from Oklahoma City from seeing his dad. When he got home, Sherry and Anita met him, and Anita told him she killed Judy right there. The three of them got the body from the cellar, pulled it up to her truck. Jesse went in the house and got the quilt to wrap her up in and all that. Jesse drove Judy's truck, and Sherry followed in the car. Juanita stayed at the house.

This was so you could have the doors open and the hood up. Juanita stayed at the house. Watched the kids. You can't leave them unsupervised. Sherry followed Cummings toward Atoka Lake. She parked the car and waited while Jesse drove on further and he came back and Judy

was no longer there. He parked her truck off to the side of the roads, raised the hood, and left it there and drove home in the car with Sherry. Got it. That's how this went down. Sherry testified also. They got back to the house. Jesse and Anita went into the bedroom where Melissa was handcuffed to the fucking bed.

Oh my Christ. Handcuffed to the fucking bed. She already knew that she was in trouble. I would say, yeah. They were there for about 15 to 20 minutes, and Anita came out first, and Cummings followed. Cummings handed Anita the keys to the handcuffs and told her to bring Melissa out of the room.

Jesse then told Sherry and Melissa to get into the car. Sherry testifies that Melissa asked where they were going and that Jesse said they were going to meet her mama. Fucking monster. Wow. Sherry fell asleep while they drove. How do you fall asleep while this is going on? You're kidnapping a fuck.

She slept in the car. Okay, go on. Wow. She said she woke up when the car stopped. Jesse got out of the car and told Melissa to get out. They walked behind the car and climbed over a railing. They were gone 15 to 20 minutes. And when she returned to the car, when he returned to the car, Jesse was alone.

Sherry says that he had blood on his hands and on the front of his coveralls. He drove back to the Etoka Lake and stopped on the opposite side of the lake from where he had taken Judy. He cleaned up, threw away his shoes, and they drove back toward the house. Cleaned up in the lake? In the lake, yeah. That's disgusting. Well, they don't have a bathroom.

Yeah, I know. I got it. It's just fucking vile. I mean, the other option is cleaning up in the shit bucket. Yeah, that's the other thing. That's worse. So they get back home and Jesse and Anita took the couch and left. They were gone before an hour and they returned.

Sherry said that when she was first questioned by the authorities about Judy and Melissa's disappearance, she told them they had left in a dark blue or black pickup and that had come to the house. She claimed she'd given this statement because Jesse told her to. That was the intent there. Juanita also testifies. Anita Juanita. She testifies that Cummings told her that he wanted her to kill his sister, Judy, and that he wanted her to use a.38 to do it.

Cummings said that he left to go to his house, to go to his father's, with his father to Oklahoma City. And Anita testified that morning she took Melissa to the welfare department with her. Good God. She said when they arrived back at the house, Juanita was there with Sherry, Judy, and the kids. That's what she says. She said the kids were outside playing Sherry went out to the porch and called her to come out there Sherry told her to do

what she needed to do and brought Anita the gun Anita went back into the house and shot Judy and then they did the thing with the kids blah blah blah they cleaned the couch all that sort of thing I thought it was odd when you said that she was shot five times and I was like that's a fucking weird number that's why because it's a 38 she just emptied the whole thing

not only that she's probably not a great shot but it holds five shots yeah so there you go she said that she testified Anita says she testified she gets home from work around 11 she went into the bedroom where Melissa was handcuffed and lying on the bed she went back to the living room Jesse came home after midnight

asked her if it was done she said it was and then she said that they left Sherry and Jesse left with the car and truck. He used to go jump the car off. Uh, when Anita was told to stay in the house, she said that she didn't help move Judy's body, but she never saw it again. Uh, when, when Jesse and Sherry came back, Jesse told Anita and Sherry to go in the bedroom and unhand, unhandcuff and undress and undress Melissa. They took her.

Oh, the poor girl. He made them stay in the room while he raped an 11-year-old fucking girl whose mother they just murdered. Right. This motherfucking monster, piece of shit asshole. What a complete piece of shit. Afterward, Sherry left that part out because she didn't want to be complicit in that. Afterward, that's why she's charged with the allowing. Afterward, Jesse and Sherry and Melissa left the house, and Anita said that only Jesse and Sherry returned.

When he returned, he was wearing only a pair of shorts. He had been wearing coveralls when he left, and he told Anita to help him load the couch in the truck. They took it to a bridge near Sentra Homa and threw it off the side of the bridge. When questioned by authorities, Anita told them that she had been sleeping in her room when she heard someone pull up to the house and Judy hollered that she and Melissa were leaving. That was her initial story. That was the one that he told her to do. So guess what?

This piece of shit asshole is convicted. Okay. Good. Fuck this. Convicted. May 9th, 1996. Two counts of first degree murder and all the other things that we said. Sure.

Sentence. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty. Good. Eat dicks. Don't care. That's one that deserves it for sure. Don't give a shit about this guy.

I'll fucking run him over with my car tomorrow. Fuck this guy. I don't care. I swear to Christ. Go on. Don't give a shit about this guy the women get sentenced to uh anita anita cummings gets a life sentence for the murder of judy and sherry gets a 35 year sentence for allowing child abuse and being accessory to crime after the fact that is whack that is whack that's garbage yeah she's but she pled through

this whole thing too through the whole court process like Sherry was saying that he kept a 38 under his pillow and she had to ask him if she was allowed to go to the bathroom. There is a big movement on here. Also, by the way, there's a lot of people. I don't know what kind of people they are. There's a lot of people saying that he's innocent and these horrible women set him up and they did all that. Meanwhile, it's all to benefit him. It's fucking ridiculous, man. The whole deal, it's so infuriating.

Where is that? It's on a website? It's so fucking infuriating. Yeah, she said that all over. It's everywhere, in court documents, to police, to investigators, to everything. She ends up getting paroled later on. She is walking around right now. She's out.

Sherry is out there. Wow. So good luck there. Now, 1998, that's their sentence. It's 1998 Jesse appeals. Okay. Now, just to get through all this because I'll give you the end of the appeal here. They end up taking off the Judy's murder charge.

They end up saying that they didn't have enough proof because all they had was it's complicated legal shit. But there's no outside corroboration other than from accomplices of this. So it's just Sherry and Judy who both participated in the murder saying that he was involved. There's nothing else outside to say that. So they can't do that. Meanwhile, the murder of Melissa. That's all Anita. Well, Sherry's involved, too.

But Anita was not out there for it. So she can put them in it and she's not an accomplice to it because she didn't help clean it up. So that's how they do that. Jesse says that there was not enough evidence in his appeal. He claims he knows nothing about the killings until Anita told him three years later about it. He says that he asked her, and after she told him, he kept pressing her for details, and all he was able to get out of her was that uh anita shot judy during an argument they kept the body in the cellar till night for fall and then moved it to a pond and anita and uh had taken melissa away uh with her and done away with her that's what that's what he said that's that's what he knew that's what anita told him what he said

complete scumbag he said that he drug her in the bedroom and said he didn't want her to leave the bedroom until he told her she told him everything. He said at one point Sherry came into the bedroom and discovered that Anita was telling Jesse about the killings and she became upset with Anita for telling him. So she tried to jump her and fight her. But Jesse had to intervene and get Sherry out of the room because there was a big cat fight. Oh, my God. And then she said at one other point during the conversation, Shirley Cunningham came into the room to let Jesse know that she and the kids were getting ready to go back to the house, and Sherry drove them.

And then at bedtime, Jesse chose to sleep on the couch rather than in the marital bed. Of course. You know, something he'd never done before in their entire marriage. So he is offended like never before. Yeah. Now, he will sleep on the couch because this is ridiculous. Right. You don't call the police.

I'm not going to be in between you two women. I'm not going to sleep in your bed with you. Next day, he locked up in the travel trailer next to the house all the guns they owned in order to keep the women from killing each other, he said. He said he pressed them throughout the day for more details. He even asked Anita if she would go with him to talk to Cole County Sheriff and tell the sheriff what she told him. Right. sheriff and tell the sheriff what she told him. Right.

He also planned to go to Walmart in Etoka to buy a tape recorder in order to get Anita to say on tape what she told him. He said that he kept trying to get stuff out of her but couldn't get anything out of her but that. She said that Sherry wanted to beat Anita up and he was just trying to keep them in there. Just keeping the peace. Now, they end up later on. This is three years later.

They look in all this. The luminol testing of the Cummings house didn't reveal any human blood. The knife wounds found in Melissa's ribs. She was stabbed multiple times, by the way. And it was hard to – I skipped over that part. I should have said that. I'm sorry. That's one of those things where it was kind of for my own.

Yeah. After the rape and all this, I was just like, I'll tell... I was like, I'll talk about all the stab wounds later because it was just too much at the time. And yeah, stabbed her really good. They said that the stab wounds found on her ribs would have produced a considerable

amount of blood, and it's unlikely that Melissa was stabbed to death in the house, which we know. They said that she was, you know, tricked and taken out. Obviously, she was. Now, his appeal is the craziest, stupidest shit I've ever heard. Okay. Well.

Craziest? You mean it's crazier than all of this? All of this put together. Okay. First of all, he says that he's factually innocent of the charges. That's number one. He claims a bunch of ridiculous shit that we don't have time for. So we're going to get to the funny and the crazy and the insane.

He says that there's no evidence to corroborate the woman's self-serving claims that they were dominated and controlled by Jesse. Well, the fact that they're participating in this is – that right there, that's evidence toward that. He said that there's no motive for him to want to kill these people. there's no motive for him to want to kill these people. He said that it's ridiculous that the jurors were never made aware that Sherry and Anita were bisexual lovers and had incentives to frame Jesse because they were going to run away together. Oh, God. That was his claim. He claimed that the wives weren't battered wives and they did not act out of distress.

He said that was just to bolster their credibility. He said they admitted to killing Judy to him while he was out of town. They falsely claimed that they kept Melissa alive until his return when he says that really they killed her well before he came home. She was just gone and he didn't know anything. He said when he got home

the bodies were cleaned up and gone and he knew nothing. He just thought they disappeared. That's why he went to the sheriff's department like a good guy and reported the missing. He said thought they disappeared. That's why he went to the sheriff's department like a good guy and reported them missing. He said to try to make their women's claims sound truthful, that they would have to say that they were abused and dominated by him. They gave him polygraph tests, by the way, and he failed them all, obviously. Between the second and third test, an excerpt was played from Anita's tape-recorded confession to the police,

not to him, and he said that he decided to, he said at this point, he decided to just claim he was the one who moved Judy's body with Anita. Because at some point he goes, I moved the body. That's what I did. I lied at first. I don't know what happened to Melissa, but I got home and I helped move the body

because she shot her and whatever. He says that it was his own naivete that did this to him because he said that he thought this would clear Sherry of any involvement and that she would be released from jail and that way the kids would have somewhere to go. That's what he said. So he was just trying to be a good guy. Yeah, a good dad. And finally, his defense. This is the one here, Jimmy. Quote, and this is

all in court documents. Someone gave this shit, filed it, and a judge read it. That's how crazy this is, okay? Quote, knowledge about the poor white trash subculture needed to understand the testimony in this case. Further detail.

The jury, which convicted Jesse, consisted of 12 white residents of Cole County who are middle class and or working class people. In arriving at their verdicts, they were disadvantaged in not having adequate knowledge of the cultural dynamics,

social mores, and the norms of the quote, quote, poor white trash subculture, which the Cummings household was a part. I swear to Christ. He is claiming white trash as a defense. Wow. Well, I'll tell you what, sir.

I am white trash. Wow. I am your peer, and I still think you're guilty. Oh, yeah. Well, he gets worse. He's claiming this was not a jury of my peers. These people have forks and shit.

You know, toilets and things like that. Now, they say, I got a mortgage. Y'all ever eaten out of a Cool Whip jug? Not Cool Whip? Yeah. Y'all ever ate Y'all ever ate burgoo out of a Cool Whip? This is a heavy burgoo area here.

So now. Because listen, I've eaten cereal. I've eaten Golden Graham's knockoff shit out of a Cool Whip plastic tub. Oh, boy. I am thoroughly white trash, sir. Well, then they explain what the actual white trash is. Do you want to hear what the legal definition of white trash is? Okay.

Oh, this is like a 50-page long document. There's no legal term. This is a 50-page long appeal, Jimmy, of just its insanity. Of what white trash really is. They said, quote, knowledge of the interpersonal dynamics of the poor white trash subculture is critical to evaluating and understanding the evidence in this case and how these offenses took place. Jesse, his extended family, and most of his friends are descendants of poor whites who migrated to southeastern Oklahoma in the late 19th century, fleeing the poverty of post-war

southern agriculture, southern sharecropping, and coal, atoca, and neighboring counties was characterized by low farm values, high rates of farm tenancy, and dependency upon cotton and wheat as staple crops. The renters, as they were known, supplied the labor and worked with animals and worked the land and paid rents that were a percentage of the crops harvested. You know what that sounds like? Being black. That's what being black after the war was that's what being black was his claim of being black but you can't say i'm not guilty because i'm black they don't get that i'm black fuck it i'm not guilty you can't just say i don't get

that i'm white trash they don't understand oh man holy shit here this is amazing so they go on to talk about uh the economics of the white trash. What did he want to be done? Like in the jury pool selection, you want him asking people, you're a fucking cousin? You got shoes on? Yeah? You're dismissed. Is that a belt or a rope?

You're right. That's fine. All right. You're good. What does he want? What the fuck does he want? What motor comes in a stock 74 Duster? A 72 El Camino engine, because that's what I put in mine, right?

Is that how it works? I had both in one work. This shit is unbelievable. Yeah, he said it is a subculture separate and distinct from the poor white subculture in the southern vicinity, which considers white trash to be inferior to them. This is all literally like this is fucking insanity, man. You ever have a car in the shop for a foot pedal gas pump? Jesus Christ.

One of one defining characteristic of poor white trash subculture is the subsistence living in which which allows maximum independence from traditional work. In other words, not having jobs which allows maximum independence from traditional work. In other words, not having jobs. That's independence from traditional work. Unaccustomed to the discipline of traditional employment. Unaccustomed. A lawyer wrote this. The guy went to law school. Someone's parents paid $100,000 for him to be able to write this.

They do not function well working eight hours under close supervision in a confined space. What are they, animals? Nonetheless, poor white trash often work very hard supporting themselves and families by hunting, fishing, logging, or, quote, junking. They tend to live a migratory and vagabond life, moving frequently in search of better economic conditions. Wow. You ever sold a truck hood for dinner? All right, you're good. The use of simplistic

cunning and manipulation is a survival skill in this culture. Oh, man. Do you crush your cans for rent? Listen to this, man. This accounts for much of the petty thievery for which they are arrested. Quote, junking includes driving around on back roads looking for abandoned property to salvage and resell.

It also includes trespassing on land to salvage property that is not clearly abandoned. That's not junking. That's just stealing shit. That's just being a meth addict. Yeah. The children in a poor white trash family begin working at a young age alongside adults to contribute to support the household. Yes. Poor white trash believe children should earn their way in the world as soon as they can.

Parents expect children to work to supplement the family income. The need for children to help support the family and transient nature of their existence in general results in children dropping out of school before reaching high school. In addition, poor white trash sees little value in education beyond functional literacy. Most poor white trash adults, and this is always capitalized, poor white trash like it's an actual segment, like it's a thing. This is amazing. Most poor white trash adults are semi-literate at best. This is a guy's defense.

This isn't me saying this shit. He went to court, handed a guy this, and said, see, I'm not guilty. Fuck. Sir, you are describing me. And guess who's never murdered and raped an 11-year-old, you fuck. Inadequate incomes also result in poor diet, health, and housing that adversely affects intellectual development. Generations of intermarriage also contribute to lower cognitive and intellectual functioning. Thank you.

What did I say? Gene pool. Poor white trash children enter adolescence with substantial disadvantages. They are expected to begin earning their own living, but have little education to prepare them to do that. This contributes to unskilled labor and nontraditional work activities and perpetuates primitive living conditions and substandard housing, like shitting on your porch, which is not in there, but should be. Coupled with the strict discipline which characterizes poor white trash,

child-rearing, children tend to drift away from the home in their early teens. Yeah, because there's no home to drift from. Who cares? Girls marry young, and boys begin a lifelong pattern of transient and subsistence existence. Given the handicaps with which the children of poor white trash arrive at adulthood, it is rare for someone with a poor white trash upbringing to be able to move up the social ladder. Wow. Now...

This fucking story is unbelievable. When children assume adult roles at a young age and live in close quarters in cramped housing that accelerates courtship, marriage, and sexual activity. No shit! The sexual mores of poor white trash are not mainstream. Within their subculture, sexual promiscuity is commonplace and accepted. The most casual living arrangements with the opposite sex are commonplace. Young people just move in together, and it's not uncommon for multiple sex partners to

live in the same household. While adulterous relationships and multiple partners are commonplace, actual bigamy is unusual, except in this fucking case. Poor white trash have strong family values, although some of their values are divergent for mainstream society. There's a concern for family, love for children, and pride for the ability to provide for one's family.

They can be extremely resourceful in coping with adversity and have a very practical, down-to-earth, non-materialistic approach to life. It sounds like people just like the northern polar bear has a very strong family bond. That's what it sounds like. This is a fucking Discovery Channel thing. Allegiance to kinfolk tends to be stronger and greater than transitory relationship to a spouse.

They say that bonds to a partner acquired through marriage seldom supplant the bonds of blood kin, is what they say. If she ain't good enough for her family, she ain't good enough for us the bonds of blood kin, is what they say. If she ain't good enough for her family, she ain't good enough for us. That's right. That's what they say. The white trash males are traditionalists in that they prefer their wives to stay home to care for the house and children. In poor white trash culture, the male is viewed as the head of the family. In child-rearing practices, they believe in strict discipline.

Their understanding and knowledge of child development and appropriate discipline are antiquated, which is due to lack of money for books and education, below average intellectual functioning, and a high degree of isolation from mainstream culture. Males and females both behave in more domineering ways than their interpersonal encounters. This is fucking nuts, man. This is far too close to home for me. They said there's far fewer differences between males and females in this. In white middle class America, for example, men and women inhabit separate spheres. And there's cultural assumptions of women being the weaker sex and being less prone to violence.

And women act more ladylike and genteel. In poor white trash culture, women will cuss, smoke, and chew tobacco and fight to resolve conflict on par with their males. My ladies. Yeah. Dominance does not depend on gender but depends on power and who has it. Power has much to do with strength and fighting prowess. While physical abuse is common in poor white trash relationships, the use of aggression is often mutual in marital relationships. You bet.

Ellie Mae. And that's because alcohol abuse is astonishingly high in white class culture. Is it? You think? Moonshine is still made and distributed within this society and it is generally more potent than its counterparts sold in stores. No shit. Living under the strain of enormous social and economic hardships, alcohol is an easy escape and from alcohol abuse flows violence. Wardships, alcohol is an easy escape, and from alcohol, abuse flows violence.

Yeah, so they talk about poor white trash have a limited range of problem-solving skills. That's where their bathtub and bathroom is at. It's out in the woods with their moonshine still. Yeah, that's right. Jesus Christ, man. This is unbelievable. To feel it, they talk about how they feel. They feel powerless.

They resort to aggression. To feel that someone is taking advantage of you is to feel put upon, which is a real source of rage. Women and children are taught to fight in order to take care of themselves. Boys and girls alike from a young age are socialized to fight and use aggressive ways to settle their differences. Wow. An important cultural characteristic of white trash is having a life. That's what I mean. They're talking about this like this is fine.

Having a life in the moment with little planning or thought about the consequences beyond the immediate moment. This is the ultimate existential culture in which people live their lives for the here and now because the right now is all you have. Sounds like a fucking Bon Jovi song. A judge went to his chambers and read this shit. And I hope he called people in and was like, y'all got to read this. He said, come on, everybody. You're not going to believe this shit.

We've got to send this to the newspaper. Coupled with this and the lack of thinking beyond immediate consequences and an inability to plan ahead in a sophisticated way. This is their defense. These people don't understand. This is just white trash behavior, and that's what goes on, and you need to understand that. What the fuck? What don't you get about we're white trash?

Unreal. Sometimes people die. I mean, it happens. I'm just saying. So he writes letters, I'm sure with the help of someone. He writes letters. The Canadian Coalition Against the Death Penalty has a letter of his. He says that he was over 100 miles away in Oklahoma City with his father who was dying of

cancer. He gives a big sob story. He says that the women are completely lying. He says initially the medical examiner was unable to determine a cause of death for Melissa. However, some three years later, her remains were exhumed for a second autopsy, at which time evidence of sharp force trauma on several ribs were discovered. Yes, that's right. They do that sometimes. They reexamine bodies. That doesn't mean that that shit's not true.

There's fucking knife nicks on the bones. That doesn't just happen. So ridiculous here. He's saying how Juanita's –'s giving like uh little differences in their statements saying that i couldn't have done it these two obviously lied this is bullshit he gives a long list of things uh that you know their testimonies a lie because i was here and this is the real thing it's this self-serving if i read the whole thing you'd drive you'd drive to oklahoma and want to fucking dig him up and beat him up again because this guy, holy shit.

It's so ridiculous. He gets into legal shit. You're like, I know you didn't write this. You did not write this. You didn't write, quote, in Oklahoma, the law is such that if a witness can corroborate a single item of circumstantial evidence is corroborated and admissible. single item of circumstantial evidence is corroborated and admissible. If the prosecution knowingly used false, misleading and inaccurate evidence, testimony and created false impressions as to that evidence at my trial to get a conviction. He didn't fucking write that.

Where to learn corroborate? He didn't write circumstantial corroborate. He didn't know any of those fucking words. This guy has a fifth grade education and 81 IQ. Fuck out of here. He also says that the jurors, he was not informed that he could have had any say in who sat in on the jury. And then he goes through the jurors one by one and says who they are, what they're about. Picks each one out.

Number one, Christy Michelle. She's a good friend of Eugene Mayo, who's the husband of Judy Mayo, who left. There's 129 people here, man. Well, this isn't a good whatever. But still, she walked to school with Ella Faye Potter's children. Yeah. So then that one, juror two, Lisa A., she works as a secretary and a bookkeeper for RSVP at Colgate, Oklahoma.

Her husband was given four years in prison for unlawful delivery of marijuana and did eight months of his sentence. Now you're just blowing their spots up here. Juror three, David P., he works as a parts manager at Breckins Equipment in Atoka, Oklahoma. He's friends with Atoka County Sheriff, Sheriff Junior Head. Junior Head is the guy's name, by the way, the sheriff. That's terrific. Junior Head.

That's amazing. Junior Head was one of the case investigators. I do not get along with Under Sheriff Junior Head. He tried to set me up for car theft in 1983 but lost in court when it was proven that I was in the hospital at the time the car was stolen. I also got into a fight with Junior Head's brother who dated my younger sister, Debbie. Holy fuck, this is as small town as it gets. Jesus Christ. Alternate juror one, Tanya P., wife of juror three.

You can't have that. She's the cook at the Atoka truck stop where law enforcement eat, have coffee, and talk about cases. He's like white trash Perez Hilton right now. Yeah, this is what he's doing. Totally. Juror four, Nora H. She was the cook at the Atoka truck stop where Lawnford's the same one as the alternate juror.

What an asshole. Juror five, Sandra S. She graduated with a degree in criminal justice at East Central University. At the time of the jury trial, she worked at Kmart in Ada. She graduated with a fucking degree and works at a Kmart in Ada, Oklahoma. In the past, she worked for probation and parole office at Ada. On post-conviction investigation. The lawyer found out at the time of the trial she lived in Ada, Oklahoma, not Cole County,

which is required by law to be on the jury list. Yeah. She said that she wanted to get back into law enforcement after the trial was over. Juror six had been widowed for 11 months at the trial and did not work. Juror seven was a retired guy, said he would pick the death penalty overall on first-degree murder if it happened. Juror eight, her husband Mike was the father-in-law, and her father-in-law Marvin N. owned Lehigh, Oklahoma salvage yard. They were good friends with local law enforcement that hung out often at the salvage yard. Why? Why are they hanging out there?

Here's the other thing, though. One of the jurors wanted to get into law enforcement after this. It affected her so deeply. She's like, I've got to get these assholes off the street. Juror nine, registered nurse at Cole County Health Department who regularly treated the Cummings family. Her middle son is assistant city manager of the city of Colgate. Her oldest son is a police detective in Ada, Oklahoma.

Yeah, juror 10, Colgate County Clerk Betty McCurry is her aunt, and he had a problem. Jesus Christ. Lorena D. is her name, and he says, the Colgate County Clerk Betty McCurry is her aunt. I had problems with Joseph D. because he came to my house and kicked my dog to death. Oh, my God.

Imagine you're on trial for murder and you're like, I'm no sure, Ted. He kicked my dog to death. This fucking town. Burn this place. There's not a lot left of it. Burn it to the fucking ground and salt the earth so nothing can ever grow again and walk the fuck away from this place. He kicked my dog to death. He didn't just come over and kick my dog once.

He kicked it until it breathed no more. He said he would automatically, juror 11 would automatically vote for the death penalty, and juror 12 is the neighbor and good friend of Cole County Sheriff Bill Ward. His daughter works in the DHS office, and he has another daughter that works in law enforcement. That had to be brought up before the trial, though, right? Yeah, that's what I mean. The dog being kicked to death. If they say they can—

My point is that as soon as the jury hears, the defendant knows the guy because right now that whole jury knows that he's white trash. We're all aware now. Yeah, we get it. There's dogs kicked to death in this story. Fuck me. Jesus Christ. You got to jury your peers, sir. They're very well aware of what your lifestyle is.

September 25th, 2008 is Execution Day. Lots of international anti-death penalty groups rally about him because they say that he's been improperly whatever, convicted and the whole deal. Edmondson here, who is Attorney General Drew Edmondson, said that the state proved its case. He says, and listen to how stupid this motherfucker is. I'm just as mad at him for saying this. Quote, Cummings was properly convicted and sentenced to death for the murder of Melissa

Moody. Appeals courts at every level have upheld this conviction and sentence. My thoughts are with the family and friends of Melissa and with her mother Judy, who's fucking dead. Your thoughts aren't with her because she's dead too, you fucking idiot, you insensitive cocksucker. Find out

if her mother's dead or alive. Does he not know that? He's a fucking idiot, apparently. So, we get to final meal. Last meal. My favorite part. What do you think he had, this white trash son of a bitch? Fried chicken. Bucket of KFC chicken? You betcha. Yeah. Last meal. My favorite part. What do you think he had this white trash? Fried chicken. Bucket of KFC chicken. You betcha. Eight additional drumsticks.

What? And a chocolate milkshake. He was hungry. He was fucking hungry. He skipped the sides and went straight to, hold the mac and cheese, hold the slaw. None of them taters. Hold them biscuits. I can't even chew them biscuits.

Throw in eight more drummies. Eight more drummies, please. Unbelievable, man. Gross. He's on the gurney about to get the needle his last and then he shit his pants and he shit his pants he went oh man that kfc got me good somebody put that needle in it's killing me i can feel those those herbs and spices running through me i don't know what's gonna kill me first the lethal injection drugs or the kentucky fried chicken he says uh last words quote i love my family i love my children i love my gorgeous

angel the justice system let me down on this case i turned a blind eye to the truth in this you came here to say today to see an innocent man die i forgive everybody involved in this wow she thanks asshole what a self-righteous what a fucking asshole i forgive you though do you now good for that uh he takes a few breaths. Who's his sweet angel? Yep. And he's dead. By the way, in the crowd here, in the whatever, the pool watching this, there is a female friend of his sobbing quietly. He's got another chick that he found in there somehow.

That's his sweet angel? Wow. No, he's talking about his daughter. Oh, OK. Two spiritual advisors and his defense attorney were also there. People said that also a bunch of people there for the victim, obviously. The sheriff was there. You can find Judy Ann, Judy Runyon.

The sister is buried also in Lehigh Cemetery, same as her daughter. But her stone, it's better now. It was just like a plastic county sign. Get out of here. It said Atoka County. And it just said Judy Mayo. It didn't even have her other names. Mayo. It didn't even have her other names. And just had – didn't even have her dates.

It just had 1941 to 1991. That's it. Didn't even have like dates. No birthday. Now it's replaced with – it's like a stone – it's just like a white cross. It's a white cross with her name handwritten on it. Oh, my God. It's fucking so sad, dude.

So fucking sad. Her life, she did not deserve that. None of these people deserve that. There needs to be a GoFundMe for a good headstone for that girl. Oh, shit, this poor lady. And then poor, at least they got Melissa a nice headstone. But, man, that poor fucking Melissa had no, she had no part in any of this. She's just a poor kid coming up in horrible circumstances and had no idea about it. This is fucking horrible.

As funny as the whole thing is, the actual crimes are horrific in this case. There's still two dead people, and that's fucking awful. It's horrible. If you like this story, you're out of your mind. And break the cycle because you might be white trash. If you're white trash, this is a public service announcement. If you or someone you know is white trash, get help today. There's help out there. It's 10 o'clock p.m. You have no know is white trash, get help today. There's help

out there. It's 10 o'clock p.m. You have no idea where your children are. Get help. So and if they're off with a 25 year old fucking. Yeah. Figure it out. Everybody's dead. Anita's in prison forever. Sherry's out on the street. So that's that's how this is all working out.

That's the story. Please get on there. Give us an iTunes review if you like this story. Five stars. Just doesn't matter what you say. Say Sherry sucks. Say Sherry's a dick. Or say, more likely, Jesse's a dick. That's more like it.

Do whatever you want there. It really, really helps out on the business. And like we said, if you want to make a donation. iTunes won't take dick, so just say jerk. They won't take dick, so just say jerk. Yeah, they won't. They'll kick it back to you. Why won't it work?

Sherry's a jerk. Jesse's a jerk. Yeah. Also, if you want to make a donation and be one of our superstar producers like we're going to talk about, and I'm going to talk a little more about this in a second, you can do that by going over to patreon.com slash crime and sports. Or you can go to PayPal and make a one-time donation using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Also, you can get a hold of the show at Murder Small on Twitter, Small Town Pod on Facebook. So thank you for your fucking donations. We appreciate that. Sorry to drop F-bombs in that.

You guys are what make this go. When we say that you changed our lives, it's true. It's honest. And in order to do that, in order to be able to do all of this shit, it's all you guys. Because we couldn't say any of this stuff, we couldn't do any of this stuff, and we would have to take it just in the ass if it wasn't for you guys.

So thank you guys, honestly, from the bottom of our hearts. And with that Patreon money, we have built our own studio at home. In case this shit goes bad and Podcast One gets mad at us and says, well, you can't use our studio anymore, we will go eat shit and fucking die. And we'll be on the fucking air the next week anyway. We're not fucking around. So thank you for your donations. And with that, let's go to the list of producers that make it possible

for us to tell everybody to eat piles of dicks Jimmy hit us with it now amazing people this week like every week every week Chrissy Ann Costaldi Jess Landgren

she's the damn best thank you guys Sarah Gilbo has been fantastic thank you so much Sarah you guys are every week they send something over to us

so thank you guys you're really incredible honestly all of you. Pierce DeCourcy. DeCourcy. DeCourcy. It's Courcy. I'm pretty sure of it.

Stacey Roy. Bonnie Jesus. Are you shitting me? K-R-Z. I just pronounced Brazilian names for the last two hours. I'm going to complain to me. I get no sip of the IU. Not today.

Bonnie Kriznaric. That's a tough one. You don't get to put K-R-Z. There are two vowels in a one, two, three, 4, 5, 6, 9-letter name. That's some Eastern European shit right there. Kriznaric. There's C's and C's. I don't know.

That's a brutal one. That's tough, brother. Jordan with no last name. Janie Ingersoll. Tia Alswin. Richard Lovell. Renee with no last name. Jesse Hollywood Hartman.

I believe that's a joke, but thank you, Jesse. I like it. Yeah, I dig it. No, it's just Hollywood Henderson. Yeah, exactly. Lindsey Greer. Jacob Berhalba. He donated twice.

Thank you so much, Jacob. Aaron Johnson. Teresa Schufenplug. God damn it. I love that. You did okay. I think I got it. I don't know.

If you say it confidently, I feel like it helps. I don't know why. I feel like they go, all right, yeah. Confidence is the key for everything. It really is. It really is. It really is. It pays off. Teresa Schuchenfleck donated both through Patreon and PayPal.

So thank you. Oh, wow. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Teresa. Adam Wesley Etheridge, Jennifer Apel, Chuck Brookman, the Awkward Human. I'm not sure what that is. I like the name. Yeah.

Good for you, man. Brandy Finley, Sarah Dubuque, Shane Sankey, Steve Hugley, Tamara. Tamara? Tamara. Tamara. It's two ways you can say it. Sometimes it's said Tamara. Yeah, sometimes.

Strumminger, that's her name. Yes. Tamara? It's not a Pamela situation. That one goes both ways. Sabrina Atkinson, Kathy Oxenreeder? Oxenreeder. Oxen Reader. Oxen Reader.

Yeah. She got that name. Her family back in the day read to oxens. Maybe, but it's R-E-I-T-E-R. Could be Oxen Writer. She wrote about him. She wrote about him. That's nice.

The oxen this time of year are beautiful. Wrote oxen poetry. I feel like the coach in R rookie of the year where he called that kid yeah oxen writer sounds like something he would have called it does yeah yeah 100 percent uh maria chafin and uh mike mike latouris which you're an asshole for that yeah we don't creative fuck it's cute it's very cute thank you for the cash. Mike Litteris. I like it. He'll be Mike Hunt next time. Make my wife crazy. Laura Brewer. Lisa McGinnis.

Ezra Grimes. Broke College Student Food blog. I'm not sure what that blog is. Check it out. Go read it. Broke College Student Food. Natalie Hodson. Maggie or Maggie?

It's M-A-G-I-E. That's Maggie, right? It's Maggie. It could be Maggie. Maggie Perry. Lazy Maggie. I'm going with Lazy Maggie Perry. That's Maggie, right? It's Maggie. It could be Maggie. Maggie Perry. Lazy Maggie. I'm going with Lazy Maggie Perry. That's what it is.

Kelly Walsh. Grantham Williams. Claire Donovan. Ben Larson. Becky D.H. She's been donating for a while. Thank you, Becky. Thank you.

Chantrese Barnes. CJ 19. Not sure. Don't know what that is. I don't know. John Brunson. Kristen Walea. Walea. I think so. Heather. Fuck. You don't know what that is. I don't know. John Brunson. Kristen Walea. Walea.

I think so. Heather. Oh, fuck. You don't get to do this. Heather Desermo. Desermo. Desermo. Pierce.

Just take Pierce, Heather. It's a much easier one. You're like, what the fuck? Tiffany Robertson, who is the one who went to Detroit with us. Yeah. And she couldn't get into whatever. We handled her ticket situation. She upped her donation this week.

Thank you so much. It was great to meet you, too, by the way. Yeah, for sure. Diane Story, Martin Coronado Jr. You're going to be problems, I'm sure of it. Kaylee Gallagher, Jessica Sharp, Melissa Small, Kieran Blackwood, Janice Hill, Sile Cole, or Sile, Sile, S-Y-L, Sile, Sile, fuck. Kelly Edmonds, Jana Fields, Cody Drought or Drought, Drought, Holly Ebb, Lonnie Hall,

and then Veronica Stewart donated this week. Thank you, Veronica. No, no, it's Veronica Swift. She has been donating. She sent me a message. That's what it was. Oh, okay. I've got the message from her.

Yes, yes. I'll take care of it. Thank you, Veronica. I get this. Laura and Joe that came to the Boston shows in the UK. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're the dentists. They're fantastic.

They were so cool, man. It was so nice to hang out with those people and make fun of American culture. They were so polite. We facilitated his penis touching her, and that's fantastic. That was great. They met because they worked together and they brought up. It's amazing. They both listened to the show.

And I love the fact that we I got they were so polite they didn't want to say anything so sweet but I'm like I go everybody's really fucking fat here aren't they and they

they got they just went oh like they're relaxed they're like they said I didn't want to say anything everything here they were smoking they go

even the cigarettes taste like there's sugar in them everything and I said have you been have you seen a big gulp yet and they went oh my god do people really put soda in those cups? And we said, yes, they do.

A popcorn tub full of fucking soda because we're fat gluttonous pigs. Wait until you get a load of Cinnabon. And we were in Boston, which is not the thinnest city also. It was like, look around. No offense, Boston, but you guys know how to eat there. You got good food. That's why. Jason Fuller drove up from, was he from Missouri, I think?

I think so. He's from that area. But yeah, he had a cool road Detroit Tiger jersey on. He's a big, cool son of a bitch, and we loved hanging out with him. So he donated this week also, and I was going to talk about him anyway. Thank you, Jason. Ashley Collins in Colorado sends me Snapchats of her dogs and shit. And her mom's, they're both driving down, by the way, or flying down.

I'm not sure. For the live show over at Stand Up Live. Oh, awesome. Elijah Banks, thank you. Lonnie Mower, or Mower? Mower. M-O-W, I'm not sure. Maria Chafin, I already mentioned her.

Her mother passed away, and she's not, a couple years ago. But her mother is a huge true crime fan and thinks that she would have loved us. Oh, that's great. Thanks for listening, Maria. Sorry we couldn't ever get to meet her. That's a bummer. Thank you, Maria. Luke Rogers, Ashley Boxler, Clifford Paquette, the guy that brought the coin, the veteran

coin. Yeah, that was really cool. It's a respect coin. It's fucking sweet. That was dope. Yeah. Thank you, man. He donated this week also.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Clifford. Appreciate it, brother. Travis Saunders over in, I think they're in Utah. Lonnie Maurer, I already said that. Elizabeth Foster, Peter Slater, Lisa Williams, brother. Travis Saunders over in, I think they're in Utah. Lonnie Maurer, I already said that. Elizabeth Foster, Peter Slater, Lisa Williams, Allison Knieerman. Knieerman. Knieerman.

Thank you. Thank you, Allison. Appreciate it. Thank you for making me an idiot. Victoria Musson, Rick Henge, Michelle Jolly over there in Australia. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Autumn Allen, Mojave.

I'm not sure who Mojave is. Joanna James, Marissa Wells, David Walsh. Thank you very much, man. That was awesome. Jedediah Greek. Jedediah Greek. Dana Grayson donated again this week. Hey, thanks, Dana.

Dana Grayson. Jacob Berhalba. I already said his name, I think. I think so. Ted Cyrus, Randy Ginn, or Gin. Randy. It's either Gin or Gin. It Berhalba. I already said his name. I think so. Ted Cyrus. Randy Ginn. Or Gin. Randy. It's either Gin or Gin.

It's probably Gin. Ryan Baylor. Corey Browks. Alex Marci. Sarah McCullough. She's fucking fantastic. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thank you.

Brittany Pace. Also, thank you so much. Stephen Mace. Katrina Seabright. Sarah Gilbo. I mentioned her. Lucas Wesolowski. I think it's Wesolowski, Braylon Guerrero, that's so many R's, that's all. That's a lot of R's.

It's a common name. Yeah, it is. That's what I was going with. It's so common, and I still fucked it up. Jesse Hartman, Liz Cooper, Chelsea Klingensmith, Jason Fuller, I mentioned. Lake? No, Jake Labier. Why did I say Lake? I don't know. It's a J.

Fucking idiot. Emmy Dumont. Anna Matusik? Matusiewicz. That's it. Matusiewicz. Chrissy Ann Castaldi, of course. Alex.

Alexis DeVries. Or DeVries. I'm not sure. James Cook. Hairy bald face beard oils. I don't know what that is. No. I don't know. Hairy face.

Not hairy bald. What the fuck am I doing? You're making a horse now. Hairy face Face Beard Oils. I don't know what that is. No. I don't know. Hairy Face, not Hairy Bald. What the fuck am I doing? You're making a horse now. Hairy Face Beard Oils. Go look at those and get some of those. Ted Cyrus, I think I mentioned him. He donated twice, I believe. Jacob Berhalba, I mentioned him also.

Ted Cyrus, there it is. That's why. Ted Cyrus got him twice. Mariah Kelly, Student, whoever that is. Thank you, Student. Thank you, Student. Rachel L. Storix, or Stor- What is that?

Story? What did I do? Fuck. What did I do? S-T-O-R-I-X? That's not right. I'm positive that I'm ruining that. I wrote that shittily.

That's what I did. Well, thank you anyway. Thank you so much, Rachel Stor- Stority? Stor- Stor- Abandon ship. Fuck.

I'm abandoning. Abandon ship. Darlene James, Autumn Allen, and Blairort, Stort? Abandon ship. Fuck, I'm abandoning. Abandon ship. Darlene James, Autumn Allen, and Blair Christensen, thank you guys so much for being on board and helping us to build a studio and create this all on our own because of you. You guys create this, so thank you. Thank you, guys. Honestly, from the ground up, you guys have been everything to us, and we would not have this show at all.

We wouldn't be doing this without you guys. You changed my life for sure. Both of our lives for the better. So thank you guys. Oh, my God. They're the best people. Thank you, guys. And thank you for listening to us complain because, honestly, it's our only recourse.

We can't do anything. We're not famous. So, guys, what if, Jimmy, let me ask you this. What if one of these fine people who like us and who aren't pieces of shit, what if they wanted to get a hold of a guy like you? Podcast One and Audioboom can find me at WhismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N-S-U-C-K-S, on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. I'm not verified, so it may or may not be me, you guys. Yeah, you won't notice us anyway because we're not verified anyway. And I'm at JimmyPIsFunny.

It's a picture of me doing comedy with a banner of us on a stage in Boston in case you're looking because you've never fucking seen me. You don't know me from dick anyway. And we're not famous. So you haven't paid attention to us. So do that. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Copy and paste my name from the show description and I eat a dick.

Thank you, everybody. Until next week. It's been our pleasure. Bye. week. It's been our pleasure. Bye! ADT can design and install a smart home just for you, backed by 24-7 protection. A new smart home at your service, customized for your lifestyle. Set up custom automations unique to your home to automatically do the things like lock the doors

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or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot,

and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.