Small Town Murder - #62 - When Stupid People Kill... in Three Points, Arizona

Episode Date: March 22, 2018

This week, we check out Three Points, Arizona, where three people moved, to escape prison in another state, and ended up entangled in a disastrous mess of inept murder plots, and finally, very bloody results. It's a truly hilarious tale of despair, and cold blooded awfulness!! Along the way, we find out why this is a place where people run from their problems, how many people can live possibly in one tiny trailer, and how far into the desert you need to bury people if you don't want them found! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, before we get started with the show, we have a big announcement for you guys. The Shut Up and Give Me Murder Tour is coming to you. Small Town Murder live shows.

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Also, don't forget March 25th in Phoenix at Stand Up Live. Yes. All the links are in the show description. Come out. Tell us to shut up and give you murder. This week, we check out Three Points, Arizona, where a man went to every extreme to avoid being sent back to prison. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Ah, yay indeed, yay indeed. If I could see, it'd be even better. My name is James Petrogallo. I am here with my co-host, who I cannot see.

Jimmy Woodson. Yes. We are in another studio that is set up like an asshole, and I can't see Jimmy and do this at the same time. This is great. This is going to be an adventure, and we're going to get through it together. I love it. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us.

We're so excited today to bring you an insane story. Due to our live show this weekend in Phoenix, Arizona at Stand Up Live, I figure in honor of that, we'll do an Arizona episode. I love it. And do that. So we're going to be there. If you are coming to the Phoenix show, you better be coming to the Phoenix show because we're going to have a blast at that Phoenix show.

Grandma will be there. Oh, fantastic. I found out. You know, she's like 90, so if she has any health issues between now and Sunday, then whatever. But she should be fine. She's excited to go. So we're going to all see Grandma, and you can hear exactly how dead on my impression

of her is. It is amazing. Barring an emergency room trip. Barring any hospital trip, she'll be there. Also, get all your tickets on the live tour coming up. We're in all sorts of cities. I'm sure you heard at the top of the show. Shut up and give me murder.com slash live

is where you get all those tickets for that sort of thing. Fantastic. Thank you, folks, for your iTunes reviews. Holy shit. They were fantastic this week. Once again, you guys come through for us as usual. Thank you so much for that, because it really is the coal that keeps the train moving forward.

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crimeinsports at gmail.com and if you want to follow the show at murdersmall on Twitter, obviously there, facebook.com slash smalltownpod besides that, Crime and Sports you should be listening to. You've heard us mention it. You don't have to like sports. You have to like us making fun of people, which is what we do here.

If you like this, I promise you, you will like crime and sports. You should dig that. So you should dig that. While you're at it, why don't you check out P.S. I Hate This Movie, where me and my wife make fun of bad romantic comedies. And I get very angry very often. And it's a lot of ranting. So if you like the ranting, that's where you can find a lot of it. And now we've come to that point.

Yes. We have to do the disclaimer. Sure. We have to do the disclaimer. This is a comedy podcast. It is. We are comedians. Yeah.

So we make jokes. We do. We don't make jokes at the expense of the victims or the victims' families. That's one thing we don't do. We may go out of our way to do that. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's the truth. That's the way this whole thing works.

Right. That's the whole story with this show. And we do this disclaimer not to tell you that there's horrific things involved because you're listening to a show called Small Town Murder. Right. So I assume you think there's murder coming up. So that part I don't really have to warn you about. At minimum.

At minimum. But we're warning you about jokes, which is why it's ridiculous that we're doing a disclaimer. So dumb. Because we're warning you that be careful. We're going to mean what you might laugh. Right. So watch out. Don't get offended by that.

Don't get offended by that. Brace yourself. Brace yourself for fun, goddammit. No. Oh, no, everybody. So if that sounds good to you, awesome. Thank you. Good to have you on board So if that sounds good to you, awesome. Thank you. Good to have you on board.

We're going to have an awesome time. If you think true crime and comedy never, ever belong together, this show is not for you. No, it's not. Have a good one. Bye. See you later. And no hard feelings. And whoever's left out there, hopefully lots of you, I think I know what you're saying right now.

You're saying shut up and give me murder. So let's do it. All right. Let's give these people murder. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. Yes. Let's do it. We're going away from the East Coast now. You're saying, shut up and give me murder. So let's do it. Let's give these people murder. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. Let's do it. We're going away from the East Coast now. We were in Maryland last week. It was nice. It was nice, a little sticky, but the crab was good.

The crab cakes are phenomenal down there. We're going to head way out west this time. We're going to get on a plane, get all your shit, get your chargers. You forget those every time. We're going to Arizona. Great. We're all the way out to Arizona. Like I said, in honor of being in Phoenix this week in our hometown, we're going to

Arizona. Last time we did Arizona, we were up in St. John's, which is way up north. It's super weird up north mountain country up there. This time we're going down south to super weird desert country. So we're going to show you the many faces of Arizona here. They're all shitty, just to let you know. The many faces of Arizona that look the goddamn same. And we live in Arizona and have lived here for multiple decades,

and we can say anything we want about it. And it's a shithole beige taint of a horrible place. Let's do this here. We're going to Three Points, Arizona, also known as Robles Junction. And there's some this here. We're going to Three Points, Arizona. Great. Also known as Robles Junction. Okay. And there's some debate there. Also known as. They fight over what it's called.

When your town has a fucking alias. That's what I mean. An AKA. You're like, no, we're not doing this. Machine gun. This is so stupid. Machine gun Kelly, you're running from the law. You know when a town can't even decide on a name, you know there's problems.

You know that this town is, think about that. They have to decide on like municipal things and they can't even pick a name. Never mind, you know, what day the garbage is being picked up on. Well, we do Thursdays and Sundays and we also do two. We couldn't decide. So we just pick it up like three days a week. We pick it up every day. Sorry.

You know what? Fuck it. Burn it. Everybody burn it. Everyone burn your garbage. It's in South Central Arizona, a little off to the east. 40 minutes to Tucson, but it's also considered part of Tucson in a weird way also. East of Tucson?

It's south and east of Tucson. Okay. It's 40 minutes, but it's sort of considered kind of part of that area too because it's a really, it's so strange down there. We've driven through southern Arizona. That's where Tombstone is. It's a weird country down there. It is very strange.

It's 45 miles to the Mexican border from here. So we're right on the border, pretty much. So 40 minutes to Tucson, about the same to the border. So this is not good country here. Pick your poison. That's exactly right. Pima County, it's in. Pima County.

Zip code, it's got two of them. 85735-85736. They couldn't decide on that either? Who the hell knows? It comes right in the middle. The line comes right in the middle of the town. Got it. Area code 520, like all of southern Arizona.

There's not enough people to warrant more. Most people are smart and don't live there. South of Phoenix, they're all 520. That's it, man. 46.42 square miles altogether. Wow. Land to spare. Nobody wants it.

Wow. It's the beige taint of Satan. Nobody wants this shit. Nobody wants it. 42 fucking miles? 46. 46.2. Take it all.

We don't care. It's all desert. Who cares? That's the thing. It's all sand. There's some mountains and vistas and shit, but it's goddamn desert. God, people, it's beautiful. No care it's all desert who cares that's the thing it's all sand there's some mountains and vistas and shit but it's goddamn desert god people oh it's beautiful no it's not it's this is another place we've got a couple so goddamn beautiful somebody would have claimed it it's beautiful on a picture it's one of those where you're like oh you see a sunset and it's

pink over the mountain you're like that's beautiful then when you're there you're like this is fucking horrible there's dust in my mouth i, this is fucking horrible. There's dust in my mouth. I hate this place. Get me out of here. There's dust in my ass. It's the worst. Motto of this town, quote, you'll wish you were in Mexico. No, that's not really the... That's not really the... But you will wish you were in Mexico. Basically Mexico.

Actual motto they have here is three points slash Robles Junction. They don't even... They have that on there. That really rolls off the tongue. Three points slash Robles Junction. They don't even, they have that on there. That really rolls off the tongue. Three points slash Robles Junction. Two names, one community coming together. Jesus.

You can't even decide on a fucking name and they've decided to embrace that shit. They're like, all right, rather than act like we're all fighting and everybody think we're like, you know, bickering over here,

let's just pretend we're embracing this shit and say it's two, yeah, two names, one community. Yeah, we'll use it to our advantage. Stupid.

Jesus. History of this town, like I said, also known as Robles Junction, as we've heard many times here. Founded in 1882, which is kind of when a lot of this shit was founded. That's when the whole tombstone thing was going on, all this out west shit here. Now, it's Burnaby S. Robles was born in 1857 in Baviacora, Sonora, Mexico. Now, at the age of seven, he crossed into southern Arizona on donkeys with his mother. So him and his mom on donkeys. This is an old postcard.

There's sombreros involved. This is the most stereotypical thing I've ever heard in my life, basically. Central American Jesus. Minus the wise man. Yeah. Well, the only thing that would be more stereotypical is if they had like pinatas for sale dangling off the side of it or some shit or like knock off Arizona Cardinal t-shirts or Carson Palmer jerseys.

Corona bottles dragging from the- Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. That would be the only thing more stereotypical. That spelled out freedom or bust. That would be the only thing more stereotypical. That spelled out freedom or bust. I'm going to go ahead and say that Robles is racist for the way he did this.

He's very racist. He's just too stereotypical. You're a racist bastard, Burnaby. What Mexican names are Kidd Burnaby, by the way? I've never heard of that. That is the most white privileged ass name for a Spanish fella? Living in Arizona, I know a lot of Mexican guys. I've never had one of them go, Burnaby. Never.

Never happened. I'm James. Burnaby. Oh, never. Never happened. Never even met a Spanish boy named Bernie. No. And you know that's what he owns.

Well, Bernie Williams is Puerto Rican. Well, I mean, but that's not fucking South America. No, it's not. Or Central America. It's a different thing. That's just a, that's a, what is that? Is that a landmass? That's a state pretty much. It's something that America owns. What's just a, what is that? Is that a landmass? That's a state, pretty much.

There's something that America owns. What do they call that? A territory? Yes, a territory. Jesus Christ. Territory, absolutely. What the fuck? So they're looking for a new home and basically to get out of Mexico.

They ended up opening a market in Tucson. And yeah, gross, right? That's a bad move. You should have stayed in Mexico. And Robles started a ranch and what was uh kind of in the three points area he starts his ranch which was nothing back then it was just a desert which it still is but it was more of a desert there uh uh so he spent some time also in florence there's a known for having a prison now that's all that is it's desert and a

prison it's a desert it has a prison and then it has the fucking country thunder shit there. That's it. We got desert and felons, and then the rednecks are going to come in and play some music for a couple days. So, you know, they're going to all fuck in a field, and then we're going to leave it to the felons and the rednecks. Four days of mud fucking, and then the rest of the time it sees prisoners. Disgusting.

So, he spends some time there, and then he goes to Tucson and accepts a mail route to Gunsite, Arizona. So now he's doing mail routes. And this isn't, you know, like a Jeep. They're in a, you know, he's probably on a donkey again. Yeah, it's another donkey with sacks on it. This is like the Cosner movie, The Postman, except more dangerous. So, God, I love that movie. It's so terrible.

It's so terrible. I love it so much. It's like Con Air. I love Con Air. I'll watch that one every damn time it's on. But Con Air knows that it sucks, I love that movie. It's so terrible. I love it so much. It's like Con Air. I love Con Air. I'll watch that one every damn time it's on. But Con Air knows that it sucks, I feel like. The postman's trying to act like it's for real. That's his godfather.

Cosner said, no, this is the one. I made it big with Dances with Wolves. No, he said, I won an Oscar with Dances with Wolves. This is my new thing. Was that his play after Dances with Wolves? No, no, he did a few things after that. Because then he had to do uh you know but if he parlayed dances with wolves in the fucking postman this was his reload of like you like dances with wolves i got another epic for you pow bitch take that this was after water world was a huge fucking terrible this was right after

water world was a huge failure too i'll watch water watch Waterworld. Oh, it's great. It's fun. I will watch any Kevin Costner movie because he's so just self- Over the top. Happy with himself at all times. Even in acting roles. Even when he's playing a character who's miserable, he's so smug and happy with himself that I have to watch these fucking movies. That's why I have to believe the rumor about Cal Ripken's wife. You just have to believe it because he's such a fucking narcissist. You know it,

man. You know it. So anyway, this point here, it's Gunsite, Arizona he's going to for the mail route. He located now to Robles Pass, which is what it's called now, which is near a cat mountain, and he was searching for a shorter route to Gunsite.

He had a brother, Jesus, who homesteaded 160 acres in the Three Points area. His little brother? No, I believe this is actually his older brother, but that's fine. That's fine. Forget it. I would have been better for the joke, but I'm sorry. I wanted that to be his younger brother, and his mom named him Jesus after she already

had a fucking Burnaby. I get Burnaby? Right. Name him fucking Jesus, huh? And you get Jesus. Okay. Thanks, Mom. That's fine.

I know where I stand. No, it's good. No, it's fine. Don't worry about it. I'll start tending to the fucking donkeys. I'll be doing that. Yeah. I'll be selling pinatas out there.

Don't worry about it. So the brothers dig a well to set up a watering stop and a stage station. Right. So this is- Sage? Stage. Oh, stage station. Got it. Yeah, a stop and feed your horses and water stage station. Sage? Stage. Oh, stage station. Yeah, to stop and feed your horses and water your people.

I saw him out there with sage burning it, trying to sell fucking burning sage to people. That wouldn't surprise me at this point. That is very Tucson. So, yeah, this was basically selfish. This was the most convenient spot for his mail route to stop and do that sort of thing. So, anyway, he eventually gives up his mail route and just moved to the watering station

here. Now it's Robles Ranch, it turns into. He and his family, they run the ranch for a long time, and eventually the family moves back to Tucson, but he stays there, and he ends up dying in 1945. The old ranch house is now the Three Points Robles Junction Community Center. So that's something there. You can play basketball in there? Apparently you can.

He was actually really a dick, though. That's the thing that's pretty funny. He worked hard, they all said. Everybody said he worked hard, but he would acquire large tracts of land to get himself rich. But everybody from back then, all the accounts say he was a complete asshole. He was a dick. He would loan money to – he would do like – he was like the check cashing spot. He was like the payday loans of the day.

He would loan money to ranchers who needed – Hookers. No, they needed to pay something off or whatever. They needed cash maybe for hookers. We don't know. You don't know. You don't know their life. But he would give them money.

I don't know what goes on back then. He would give them money, and then if they couldn't pay it back, he'd end up taking all their land. Wow. For small amounts of money. Scumbag. Shit like that. It's a payday loan guy, basically. He's a fucking loan shark.

He figured it out. Arizona, by the way, littered with payday loan places. This is the start of it right here. Fucking terrible here. Now, there's an article here from the Tucson Weekly that's hilarious. It talks about what this town is all about, and it's funny as shit. The beginning of it is, quote, here we go again, said the anguished voices. Another black eye for three points.

So not a great reputation in this town. What a great town. They go on to talk about a guy who was 19-year-old, a 19-year-old unemployed butcher who kidnapped three illegal aliens and illegal immigrants and tried to extort money from their relatives in Mexico. They didn't get pay up. So the these poor men were tortured with a screwdriver and had their toenails ripped off with pliers and their front teeth beaten out and threatened with castration.

Sounds great. That's what's going on down there. Yeah. Then they would have this other guy uh barry joseph van brocklin and this guy would force these men to strip down to their underwear before the torture and then they would ask the uh victims to quote pray for them and forgive him for doing this so that's pretty fucked up man uh it's a terrible place there's a quote here from a from a local activist named marion whitfield that says quote t, Tucson thinks of us as drugs and crime and bodies in the desert are stuffed into trunks of cars.

That doesn't help when we're trying to stabilize the community. So that's the type of place we're dealing with. What the fuck? A shithole. It's like West Baltimore all throughout the desert here. It's like Buckeye, Arizona. Yeah. It's the west side of town.

She said, quote, some neighborhoods out there are straight out of Steinbeck. She's like, it's just a fucking disaster, basically. She recalled literary references as if anybody in three points is going to get that. No, they don't know that. You had to go to school in at least seventh grade to get the Steinbeck reference, I feel like. That's not happening down there. As if guys bashing teeth out of faces are going to understand that.

No, he's had a pinata donkey since the fourth grade. That's what you do. By the fifth grade, you better get your own pinata donkey and get it rolling because you're behind the fucking game already. Oh, fuck. You can set up a good spot, get ready, sell it. You know, come on. Put your shit together, people.

She's calling literary references. That's unbelievable. This is fucking awesome. Unbelievable. Now, this place has grown like crazy since the 80s. Really? It's grown like, as everything in Arizona has. Phoenix had a million people in 1989, and now there's four million.

Yeah. Wow. So there was a little less than a million. Yeah, it's grown quadrupled in the last 25 years. I didn't even realize that. Yeah, it's like right when my family moved out here. It makes sense why I can't fucking get anywhere. Yeah, exactly.

Why it was so hard to get here today. The infrastructure is fucked. Oh, yeah. It's still the same as it was before. The infrastructure is garbage. They just said it's like right when my family moved out here. That makes sense why I can't fucking get anywhere. Yeah, exactly why it was so hard to get here today. The infrastructure is fucked. Oh, yeah, it's still the same as it was before. The infrastructure is garbage. They just said it's fine. They've added one freeway, and it loops around the town. That's good. It does nothing.

That's good. If you want to go all the way in the far upper part or the far eastern part or the far western part, knock yourself out. Anything to do with the middle of town, fuck out. Eat dicks. There's nothing for you. Get on that loop and drive. Surface streets, assholes.

So this place is blown up. They call it, they say there's a lot of broken, you know, open land. Nice mountains and shit. Like I said, a postcard, you look at it and go, that looks like a beautiful place. Then you go there and go, oh, there's bodies in trunks. They've got a salesman everywhere. This is terrible. So right now we have a Steinbeck novel.

Yeah, it's a little Steinbeck-y. I don't know about that here. I can't get the word novel out of my face. They talk about in this article that it's a good country for hiding out from ex-wives and husbands from the law and from civilization in general. This isn't from the 1800s. This is now they're talking about. Now it's a good place to hide from a wife, an ex-wife that wants fucking alimony.

Or the law. And we'll get to, in our story, that's the reason why wants fucking alimony. Or the law. Right. Or civil. And we'll get to in our story. That's the reason why they're here. Really? Oh, this is great. That's why we're making a point of this now. What a quote. It's great.

Somebody, a doctor at the Three Points Clinic said, quote, people move here for the same reason people historically moved out west. They don't want people telling them what to do. They like their independence and don't trust the government. That's who's there. This is who we're talking about. Welcome to Three Points. Here's your tinfoil hat.

We all pictured the guy. We all pictured him. The same fucking guy. That's the whole town. That guy walking around. That dude. And that's what they tell you. That's what they say.

Who's they, though? Every time they say they. The moon landing was bullshit and we all know it god damn it why why are we going back all the time if we could just go up to the moon and wander around on it we all know who he is fucking guy i've heard people say that i know that exact phrase there's a guy at my work that does it it's fucking ridiculous amazing yeah it was fucking that line saying, Earth is round. And every time he goes-

We all know it's flat. But who's they? But who's they? Every time, they say they. And he goes, I just said it. They say it. I'm like, what are you talking about right now? That's a dude that likes spinning his wheels in his trailer.

He just sits in his trailer and spins those fucking wheels with Wheel of Fortune playing in the background. It's a real life Uncle Eddie. It's fucking crazy. Wow, man. So, yeah, it background. It's a real-life Uncle Eddie. It's fucking crazy. Wow, man. So, yeah, it is. What a life to have. Yeah.

They say it attracts isolationists, a lot of people fleeing their past, people who live in fixer-upper mobile homes. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Oh, what a fucking bunch of words to put together. Yeah. As if mobile home isn't bad enough. It's a fixer-upper.

Oh, boy. They say you can buy cheap land. They talk about how there's signs everywhere. Hay for sale. Call for well pump repair. Danger. Bees. No trespassing, which is an odd sign.

Double wide. $1,000 down. And guinea hens cheap. Now, how do they know that these hens belong to italian people i don't know but i can say that fuck you people petrogallo and they're cheap and they're cheap cheap man they spell it c-h-e-e-p those fuckers no they didn't they should have though uh they talk about if you drive like off the highway you can see wrecked trailers and junked cars and dust and

just they could they said what you see this is a great line drive down taylor lane off highway 86 and you won't have to look hard to see well the grapes of wrath wrecked trailers drunk junk literary references choking dust vacant faces vacant faces i see that the land in the town is shit vacant faces these people are just deadened by the land are you deadened by the land has it killed your spirit to that point where you're just dead all that was missing was milky eyes and facial scars yeah what the fuck oh my god that's so terrible that's so true true. This place sounds like Mad Max, for fuck's sake. It's fucking horrible. It sounds horrible here. Does Tom Hardy live here?

They talk about the Taylor neighborhood. Believed to consist of around 500 homes, got national notoriety when the Wall Street Journal called it one of the worst wildcat subdivisions in Arizona. Quote, a sprawling tract of land divided by a succession of owners that leaves them exempt from the basic county building requirements. No paved roads, no sewers, sidewalks, and frequently no addresses. No addresses. Quote, a businesswoman said, quote, if you don't want to be found, who needs an address?

Where the fuck are we talking about? This is 2016 that's happened. This is in America. Where are the fluff pieces for this town? This is 45 miles from the Mexican border, so let's not go crazy. But still, it's still technically the United States. I don't know what the fuck happened here. They're still paying taxes.

Some of them, I'm sure. Maybe a couple of them. They're paving roads with it. No. People in this town, population 5,313 vacant souls live here. Vacant faces. This is up 144% since 1990. Wow.

So more than double since 1990. Median age is 46.2, which is almost 10 years older than the average. You're going to get the older people moving out to the desert to settle down. And I feel like maybe a lot of these people, too, as Phoenix and Tucson become less affordable, they're like, well, we'll just get a trailer in the middle of the desert then. It's better than Indiana. We don't need an address. No. Who needs an address? They're like, well, we'll just get a trailer in the middle of the desert then. It's better than Indiana. We don't need an address. No, who needs an address?

They're looking for us. Male-female populations are pretty normal, but the males are actually more males here, which is not normal. But married populations, a little less than normal. Divorced population, way more than normal, which makes sense here. Vacant divorced faces, I get it. I've been there. I've been there, man.

I understand where you're coming from. A lot of single people, not a lot of single people with children. It's weird. More single people with no children. So I guess if you're trying to party, this might be a good place if you're looking for an outlaw. Jesus. It's weird, though.

Almost double the amount of people 60 to 75 years old is the average. Wow. So people are moving out there. Early retirement, they're like, we'll take early retirement. We can afford it because we're going to buy attractive land that nobody wants and put a fixer-upper mobile home on it. So it's fine if we need to buy a pinata. There's a guy right there.

Right. No worries. Race of this town, 64% white, which is just at 63% is the average. 0.28% black. There's still no black people there, obviously. 0.0% Asian. They said, nope, fuck that shit. We're going to civilization. We don't trust them still.

Nope. No. 1% they said, once you're done with that railroad, you can keep on going. That's right. You lay that line and you get the fuck on up to Tucson because we ain't having that shit. You keep your chingy-chongy stuff to yourselves. We don't need it down here in Robles Junction. You mean three points?

Fuck you, Robles Junction. Gunshots. Yosemite Sam's jumping around. Sweet fuck. That's an actual scene from this town. That story brought to you by small town murder. Jesus Christ. Hispanic is the big other

minority population here. 34% Hispanic, which you would expect because you're practically in Mexico. So you're going to get a lot of Hispanic people there. Religion in this town, it's normally 50-50.

That's the average. 40% religious in this religion in this town. Wow. I guess when you live in that terrible of a place, your faith in God just disintegrates. I'm surprised there's any at all. This is godless country down here.

Right. Although the Mexican people are very Catholic. That's true. And 21.36% are Catholic. Those are your Mexicans right there. Got it. Yeah. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the Western Mexicans. Right.

I don't know. It doesn't roll off the tongue like Baptists of the North. No. But it's fine. We'll have that here. We have 3% LDS, as we're going to get a lot of Mormons out in the West, as usual here. 0.59% Jewish. Holy shit.

Run. Run. 0.5 out of 5,000. That's a lot of Jews. That's way more than I would have expected in this place. And honestly, I expected better of you. I really did, Jewish people. I expected more of you, honestly.

I'm going to be realistic here. There's always some crazies somewhere. There is. And that sounds like a good percentage of crazies. That's on the money. 0.03% Muslim in this town here. 52% Democrats. 45% Republicans, which is actually a surprise to me.

Well, South Southern Arizona. That's true. That's true. Household income in this place is about thirty five thousand six hundred a year, which is much lower than the fifty four thousand regular, which explains all the trailer situations. About sixty five percent of the people make under fifty thousand a year. So it's it's a lot of of not a real affluent area here. More construction jobs than normal because there's so many people moving there.

Sure. That would make sense here. Like real estate jobs are more that sort of thing. Less white collar jobs and finance jobs. Weird. Shocking, isn't it? Shocking. Accommodation and food services is like a third of what it is normally.

Really? People are just not stopping there. Wow. We don't have any interest in here. isn't it shocking accommodation and food services is like a third of what it is normally like people are just not stopping there just we don't have any interest in here cost of living we say 100 is par and average uh overall here cost of living is a 93 um health care is a little bit high but most of the things are around 100 except for housing which is a 77 because it's god forsaken horrible country why would you want to be there? The average median home cost here is $142,600, which is below the $185,000 normal, obviously. Most of the houses here, a lot of them are between $40,000 and $150,000. You can buy a house here for 50 grand. It's that sort of thing here.

It's not really a house it's well let's find out what it is if we've convinced you for somehow that the only place you could possibly be is three points arizona we have for you the three points arizona real estate report all right we have a two-bedroom apartment. On the average, there is $980. Jesus. Which is only like 50 bucks lower than the national average, which sounds terrible. Don't rent there. That's a rip-off and a half here.

Two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,000-square-foot trailer that I found. Looks terrible. Looks like a shithole. $29,900. Deal. Which is the cost of one of those tiny houses on the hgtv network or whatever that is stupid fucking thing that is those are how is that a fucking trend we've watched i mean sarah we've watched this and it's there was one where the it was so small and

they had the bathroom and the living room were right on top of each other you could hold hands with somebody on the couch while you shit and they didn't have a door in the bathroom. It was a curtain. Oh, my God. So how do you go in there and just pull the curtain and then shit three feet from the person sitting there watching TV? A nightmare. Do that around the people you love? Live outside, you fucking people.

We also have a four-bedroom, two-bath, 1,400-square-foot house for $135,000. square foot house for $135,000. And then if you want to spread out a little bit, waste money living in a shithole, a four bedroom, four bath, 3,500 square foot house for $289,000. My Christ. You should be able to buy most of the town for that. Yeah. Things to do here. Oh my.

Not a lot of things to do. They have the Three Points Community Festival. They say it's a great program for your family, which is a weird way to put it. That is. October 7th, 4 to 8 p.m. at the Robles Elementary School. They didn't say program, though. They said program. Program.

That's right. Four food trucks from town and kettle corn. Dunk tank, rock wall, live music, DJ, laser tag, carnival games, face painting, jousting ring, dancing, and more. Prizes. They have a raffle, and the fire department will be handing out car seats and fire extinguishers, so everybody get down there. It's going to be a party. And sitting on hand in case somebody gets impaled.

What the fuck? Jousting? Jousting, yeah. Who needs that? Keep the paramedics close by. Crime rate in this town, we're interested in here. Property crime is actually exactly average, which is lower than I expected it to be. And violent crime, though, is about 20% exactly average which is lower than i expected it to be and violent crime that was about 20 higher which is lower than i expected to be in this town it's a terrible terrible town uh with some terrible people in it i'm sure there's

some nice people in it but not all of them uh one of the people who ends up here that we'll talk about uh is a shad daniel armstrong okay that a terrible name, by the way. Shad. Somebody named... That's his given name. That's not a nickname. His name is Shad. He was named after fishing bait. Yeah, it's S-H-A-D. They named him on his birth certificate.

That could have been a middle name. Daniel Shad Armstrong. A little better. I think they were trying to name him Shad, or Chad, and were too fucked up. They're like, well, Shad's a terrible name. I know it is, but we're naming him that anyway. Then it came out Shad.

He was conceived in a shed and they just didn't know how to spell shed. Yeah, Shad. I banged her in the Shad. I banged her right in the Shad. It was good. It was good, I tell you. Now, he's born in 1973, old Shad here. He is from Oklahoma.

He's an Oklahoma boy. And this story has flashes of is from Oklahoma. He's an Oklahoma boy and this story has flashes of Phillips, Oklahoma. Really? As I'm doing this story, I'm like, oh boy, there's some Phillips in here, boy. There's a touch of Phillips in this story. So if you remember that episode, you're in for a treat. This story

is like a Coen Brothers movie. That's the best way to describe it. You know, a lot of times in a Coen Brothers movie you'll have this evil plot, but carried out by morons who can't like, you know what I mean? They just can't get it right. And it's like this comedy of errors and like, oh, we tried to cut his head off. Like, that's

what we're, I feel like this is a Coen Brothers movie as I'm reading the story. And as I put it together, I'm like, this is ridiculous. This is absolutely ridiculous. These people are fucking stupid. Just inept. They belong in Three Points, Arizona. They really do, these people are fucking stupid just inept they belong in three points arizona they really do these people here now uh when he was 18 years old uh he had a shit childhood also by the way uh shit childhood uh which you expect here he grew up in rural oklahoma also

uh not that that gives you a shit childhood but that's part of the the stew um he completes his ged in like a juvenile detention. You know what I mean? Like that sort of thing. Like didn't graduate high school. He made some like efforts to not be a complete criminal piece of shit in rehab. But he always ended up going back to being a complete criminal piece of shit. Basically.

Nothing violent though. Okay. A lot of burglary. A lot of thieving. A lot of scumbag. Surviving. Yeah, general scumbag behavior is what he does here. July 20th, 1991, I found this shit was not easy to find, too, finding some of these.

I love newspaper archives because if it wasn't for that, so many things would be lost to history because they just don't get recorded. I found this guy July 20th, 1991. He's 18 years old. it recorded. I found this guy July 20th, 1991. He is 18 years old. He's sentenced for burglary of a habitation. Why do they fucking call it that? A habitation?

Make me think? I don't know. You're like, habitation? Why is he at the zoo? Why is he messing with the koala habitat, man? Leave the bears alone, you dickhead. Stop, dude. At this point. There's just carrots in there.

Get out of there. What are you going to do in there? Unless you're going to fight the thing. Via Cheslov Dotson. Get the hell out of there. There's just carrots and then what carrots turn into after a bear eats them. Orange bear shit. Get the fuck out of there.

Orange bear shit that they're going to feed you. He lived in Durant, Oklahoma at this point here. He is sentenced on this day, 1991, to eight years in prison for burglary. That's some burglary there. That's a lot for burglary. They burgled the fuck out of him. Yeah. I mean, that wasn't his first offense.

He was in juvenile hall and everything else. But yeah, he was on probation and was arrested again okay and then they revoked his probation and sentenced him to eight years in prison which is you're really thinking probation for burglary yeah it's not probation for that sort of thing and then so they give him eight years and a 336 dollar fine just for good. I love when they throw that on there. Like, that's something he took into account. Eight years. Oh, then I'm going to have to pay that fine.

That's going to be $300. Fuck. Eight years and probably sell everything you own to pay for this. Eight years and four months of trailer rent. That's what that is, basically, right there. How much do you own, sir? About $336 worth of shit. All right, sell all of it.

That includes his trailer, by the way. And all of his pinatas. His entire pinata stock. And both his donkeys. And he saved a bunch of money on address numbers. Oh, yeah, you don't have to have those. Those fancy ones, you don't have to have anybody write on his curb, paint his curb up. No, none of that shit.

We ain't got no address. That's kind of where this is, too, this whole thing. It's so crazy. It ends up there. So April 24th, 1994, this I found in the Odessa American newspaper. Dude, this is. Where the hell is that? Is that Texas?

It's Odessa, Texas. But, I mean, these are so hard to find. I found a marriage license announcement for this guy. And it's so great because normally you're like, is that the same guy? It's Shad Daniel Armstrong. There's no other Shad Daniel Armstrong. That's never existed ever before. So when you find anything on him, it's him, which is great, which I love here.

In 1994. This is four years, three years later. So he got out. So he must be out of prison. Got it. Less than three years later on an eight-year term. Good behavior. Good behavior, I guess.

He's a young guy, too. I'm sure that helped helped that sort of thing. But he's out enough to get a marriage license to a with a woman named Tammy Kay Kerr. You bet. Which sounds like very white trash. Yeah. That sounds like Tammy Kay Kerr right here. I'll tell you what.

That's a female with a mullet. You see one of those? Oh, yeah. That's a mullet in female. That's no good. And not like a trucker mullet female, too. This is like a girl who thinks she's hot shit, but she's got a mullet. She's like, that's right, I haven't done like that.

She's got a great body, but she's got that fucking hair. She's got a great body and a mullet. Right. So. You ever seen a hot chick with a mullet? Yes. It's happened. It's disturbing.

God damn it. And it's fucking disturbing. It's fucking frightening. Yeah. Well, yeah. If you watched any Jerry Springer in the 90s, it was mostly. You're like, why are you doing that to yourself? You're so beautiful.

You have a hot, you're hot. Right. No. Just shave your fucking head. Yeah, exactly. Or something. Jesus Christ. Just Sinead O'Connor the shit out of that.

It'd be better than a mullet. Yes. Absolutely. A mullet on a woman, too. That makes a statement more than a mullet on a man. You know? Because a mullet on a woman too that's that makes a statement more than a mullet on a man you know there's a mullet on a man right just just they may you never know like how else he's dressed but he might be being ironic right he might be trying to kid around like people with those stupid dip shit facial hair with novelty facial hair things like that he might

be fucking around a woman that is not irony no she thinks that looks good a dude fucking around can just shave it and he's fine there you go but a girl fucking around you can't just shave it you can but generally whoa she cultivated that mullet you know what i mean she gave a shit about it she puts product in there you know what i mean she invested in that product in that mullet she conditions it well she did that for the future i got my mullet conditioner i need to go down to the dollar general get my mullet conditioner you gonna drive me or what tammy k what are you doing you driving me or what i gotta walk i gotta take the donkey i'll take the donkey if i have to just let me know because i want to go i need to get that right now my mullet conditioner

tammy k oh tammy k kerr yeah that's something there now this doesn't last very long apparently Now, my mullet conditioner. Tammy Kay. Oh, boy. Tammy Kay Kerr. Yeah. That's something there. Now, this doesn't last very long, apparently, because by 1996, he is with, well, boy, it gets better as far as the names of these women go. Russette and Medina he hooks up with, but you know what she goes by? Yeah. Rusty.

Oh, boy. Rusty. Oh, Rusty Medina. This is my girlfriend, Rusty Medina. First of all, a Rusty Medina sounds like a terrible sexual move that you do when a girl's on her period. That sounds fucking terrible. That's all right. Give her the Rusty Medina.

She won't mind it. Everybody's going to be happy. Now, get on in there. Be a man. Give her the Rusty Medina. You don't give a shit. I put you some kind of pussy you care about. Get on in there. Holy Christ. Give her the Rusty Medina. You don't give a shit. I put you some kind of pussy you care about. Get in on in there.

Holy Christ. Give her the Rusty Medina, everybody. Is a Rusty Medina when you get a girl on her pregnant drunk and then you rape her? Is that it? A girl on her pregnant? Whoa, back that up. You said a girl on her drunk, a girl on her pregnant. So did you just say to rape a drunk pregnant girl?

Is that what that was? You get a pregnant girl drunk, no. I mean a girl on her period. The opposite of pregnant, you mean. Yeah, you get one. Yeah, yeah. The guarantee that she's not. She's probably not pregnant there.

I think that's what it is. That's horrific, man. That's a terrible thing. That's disgusting. Terrible thing, but Shad is into it, we'll say. So he's with, this is about 96, 97, well, 96, summer of 96 he hooks up with Rusty, my girlfriend

Rusty. Wow. I read that. When I first found this story, I'm like, oh, is this like a, is he gay? This is an interesting story. I'm like, wait, Rusty's a woman? Because Rusty at some point is a kid. And you're like, I'm like, Rusty has a, when Rusty gave birth, I'm like, hold on a second, I had to go back. And I'm like, no, like, Rusty? When Rusty gave birth, I'm like, hold on a second. I had to go back.

Back up, yeah. And I'm like, no, I guess Rusty's a woman, apparently. Then I say, yeah, Russette Ann. Unbelievable. Who names her daughter Russette? When he told his dad, I want to introduce you to my wife, Rusty, he was like, what boy? What now? Who names your kid Russette?

You know the father's name was Russell. Yes. And they were like, she's Russette. For sure. Russette. He had Junior locked and loaded, and then he found out it was a girl. He're like, she's Russette. For sure. Russette. He had Junior locked and loaded. Yeah. And then he found out it was a girl.

He was like, well, Russette. Russette it is. I'm going to make up a new name. And then the mom was like, that's the name of a potato, dickhead. I don't care. Curse. Curse her devil vagina. Right.

I wanted a penis. Right. I'm naming him Russette. I don't give a shit. And she's going to play football. Right. As a matter of fact. She's the kicker for sure.

She's going to play for the University of Oklahoma. All right. No more accents. We'll do this. No, there'll be accents. Sorry. She's going to play football, as a matter of fact. She's the kicker for sure. She's going to play for the University of Oklahoma. All right, no more accents. We'll do this. No, there'll be accents. Sorry. It's going to happen. Oh, it's coming. Especially later on when it gets really fucking crazy.

Late, like I said, late summer of 96, he's with old Rusty here. They live in Oklahoma. Yeah. During that month, they plan a little burglary here. What? Yeah, it's because, you know, that's what he does. He burgles. This is his thing. Shad. It is him. Armstrong. Shad. His sister, Farrah Armstrong. She's going to be in the story a lot, too. Their friend, Tommy Taylor. And they all burglarize the home of a guy named Rob Fisher.

Yeah. This is in Cato, Texas. right across, I think, near the Oklahoma border. But they all burglarize this guy's home. Now, later on, over the next few months, for the rest of the year, rest of 1997, they're all worried they're going to get caught because Taylor ends up implicating Shad and his sister. You can't trust Tommy Taylor. Tommy Taylor is going to implicate them, and they've found out that they've implating Shad and his sister. You can't trust Tommy Taylor. Tommy Taylor is going to implicate them, and they've found out that they've implicated Shad and his sister Fatty.

So there's some problems, obviously. I bet every small town in America has at least two Tommy Taylors. Oh, God, yeah. Every fucking one of them. And they all coach the high school basketball team. Coach Tommy Taylor, how you doing there? Nice to see you. We're going to make state. We're going to teach

these boys a couple of things now. We're going to teach them the fundamentals of the game, obviously. Goddamn respect. More importantly, more importantly, we're going to teach them how to be a man, a real man. Second, now this third actually, but it's the most important. We're going to teach them the Rusty Medina.

This is information they're going to need to know. Okay? Now, they get out there on the floor, that information is going to help them. You wouldn't think it was, but it's like wax on, wax off. You know what I mean? Now you don't think about it, but later on you're like, oh, I see. Now I can block his kicks.

Now that's how it works now. Rusty Medina for you. January of 1997, a few months later, after he's learned that he's been implicated by Coach Tommy Taylor, he ends up leaving Oklahoma to avoid arrest because he knew he was about to be arrested. So he takes off, as you do. That's what you do. You flee, obviously. They're on to me.

I love it, too, because that's the ultimate white trash thing. Do I try to confront this and fight it? Do I do this? I'm leaving! Just packing up the donkey and going on. It's the most obvious move when you've done something wrong. And they move to Arizona, which is where you go

when you're trying to avoid the law. It's like Alaska and Arizona are the two places you go when you need to avoid the law. He brings along old Rusty Medina with him. He's like, come on, Rusty. Medina has a child also. They bring the child, too, obviously. And also Farrah, the sister, because she's in the shit, too,

because she was in the burglary also. She was part of it. So they all load up the donkey, all their pinatas, and they head down to Arizona. They end up in Tucson at first, which, Jesus, what would make you go, Tucson's the place? I've been to Tucson. It is not the place. Nothing ever. Anything. I've been to Tucson. It is not the place.

Nothing ever. For anything. Don't go to Tucson. Never. Sorry, Tucson. I'm sure that you guys are proud of what you've done down there. You shouldn't be. You really shouldn't be.

You should stop it. You have nothing to be proud of. And you should stop supporting that goddamn college that fucking. I don't care about colleges at all. They're such fucking. I'll save it. I'll save it. Save it for a live show?

Yeah. They're assholes. That's what they are. They fucking – all right. I'll save it. By the way, Tucson, come on up to Phoenix this Sunday to stand up live to see Small Town Murder Live. This is why we don't do the states we're in when we do live shows because if we mock them and people are from there, it's like, okay, so we'll do the neighboring state. Everybody hates the neighboring state.

Fuck them. New Jersey. Fuck those guys. Exactly. Until we're in Newark and then we're like, fuck New York. Yeah. No, they're like, we're all from there and we only live here because we couldn't afford to live there anymore. You have to do that in like Pennsylvania.

Yeah, fucking New York. In Boston. Yeah, that would have worked well there. So they arrive in Tucson. They all move into an apartment together. Of course. Just a big white trash party time in a Tucson apartment. Jesus Christ.

Tucson, the Orlando of the West. I feel like that's what it is. Tucson, the Jacksonville of the West. It's a shorter spelling of Tallahassee. Exactly. What, just are you trying to spell Tallahassee there? Looks like. Some dipshit tried to spell Tallahassee.

That's what happened. That's every time. Now, they get to Tucson. Farrah, the sister, Farrah Armstrong, meets a guy named Frank Williams, and they get into a romantic relationship immediately because, you know, I don't know. What else are you going to do? They're all young, and they meet each other. It's Tucson.

I don't know. That else are you going to do? They're all young and they meet each other. It's Tucson. I don't know. That's what you do down there. Anyway, shortly after they meet, they get together. This Frank Williams ends up moving into the apartment with the rest of them. It's like, why not? Let's make it a, what are the sleeping arrangements there? Well, I guess if it's a, well, then they have a kid too. A three bedroom apartment.

Probably not. It's probably a two bedroom apartment. Farrah and the boyfriend in one room. Shad, Rusty and the kid in the other room, which sounds fucking horrendous. In Tucson. And that kid is sleeping on the couch when Shad gets horny. This is horrific. Yeah, this is not a good arrangement, I don't think.

Poor kid's got to listen to Rusty. Moans of Rusty Medina. I can't imagine how horrific those are. Oh, that's not great. Yeah, and him giving her the Rusty Medina when she's off because I feel like he announces what he's doing now next, you know what I mean? And for...

And for my finishing move! Roll over! You know where it's coming next, now roll over! You know what's coming! I'm calling my shot! Jesus Christ. So, this romance is hot and heavy between Farrah and Frank, because they end up getting engaged in July.

So they move to Tucson in January. By July, she's engaged. Wow. That's fast. They move into their own apartment, those two, when they get engaged. You know, as you do. That's nice. Open up that extra bedroom for the kid now.

It's wonderful. So things are going fine. Now, that was July. In May, by the way, and I think this also was a motivation for them moving out, in May, Rusty and Shad have a baby. Oh, boy. So Rusty gives birth in May. Yeah.

So for a while there, there's two kids, this couple, Rusty and Shad, all in an apartment. By July, they move out. He proposes to Frank Williams, says, let me take you away from all this, to another one-bedroom apartment in the same complex, but sort of away from all this. Yeah, so now by December of 1997, Shad, Rusty, Rusty's kid, and their new kid all end up leaving their apartment and moving in with Farrah and Frank Williams.

We're coming back. Yeah. So this is like they moved out in July and they're like, we're coming to live with you now. All right, Cousin Eddie, come on down. Shitter's full. Like, that's what we're living with here. These are the shitter's full people. They're telling each other they're shitter's full constantly.

So now they're still all living in a terrible apartment here. By 98, Shad and Rusty start to fight a lot. They're starting to fight a lot, which in this environment, two kids, fighting's going to happen. Probably in a one-bedroom. That's what I mean. They're too close. They have a tent and shit. There's no room to get away from each other.

This is, people need, I've said it before, square footage is the key to happiness. It is. You need to be able to wander. Not that you need to live away, but you need to be able to wander a distance away. Give me some time to miss you. If you're taking a shit three feet from the couch, that's bad. That's not going to help. That's not going to help anybody here.

So they end up fighting. So Shad moves out to Three Points, Arizona. Ah, look where we end up. So Shad is on the run from the law in Oklahoma. Not divorcing. Separated from Rusty Medina. Probably still married to the first one. I can't imagine he ponied up the fee for the divorce.

Probably still married. Has a couple kids. His sister and some other white trash guy living in an apartment. It's going bad. This is a fucking disaster. So this is a perfect time to move to three points, I feel like. Based on that article, this sounds like the guy, like he read that article and went, hmm, that sounds pretty good.

He read it like a pamphlet. Like it was a Taurus in pamphlet. He goes, that looks gorgeous. I don't know who Steinbeck is, but I'm moving there. I'm moving there. I think that Steinbeck might have a point. I'm just saying that now. Steinbeck's on to something.

Now he moves in, in three points. Grapes of wrath. I love grapes. I love grapes a point. I'm just saying that now. Steinbeck's on to something. Now, he moves in in three points. Grapes of wrath. I love grapes. I love grapes a lot. They're delicious. Only the purple ones, though. No, no, no. The light ones, the green ones, I don't like them.

They're sour. They make wine and everything. Oh, I never had no wine, but I hear it's good. Now, he moves in. Grapes, they got highfalutin wine? That sounds like a beautiful place. Graves of France. I'm surprised there's no wine named that.

I'm surprised there's no Graves of France. I'll bet there is. There probably is, yeah. Fuck yeah, there is. Somebody got all wordplay. Pun and assholes. Stupid asshole. So, like I said, he moves to three points.

I think he moves by himself to make a new living, a new start. He's going to get an apartment on his own. He's going to, you know, build up his credit. He's going to pay to buy a house, try to find a nice woman, settle down, you know, maybe get a middle management job somewhere. You know, just have a life. Fix his past. No, he doesn't do that at all.

He moves in with his friend David Dugan and his father Tim Dugan into their trailer in the middle of the desert. Yes. There's a fucking, it's just a trailer sitting out there in the middle of Three Points with three dudes living in it that smells, that thing was reek of balls. Those boys came up to Tucson with their tax return money. They came up drinking and they met together at a bar and they were like, we got a man cave down at Six Points. You should come on down there. Three points. Three points.

Six points. No matter. There's a lot of points down there. You pick as many points as you want. That's the kind of freedom that you get. It's the kind of freedom you don't get in other places. You see, you come there. You can name it, whatever you want.

We ain't even got an address. You can make it up. Boy, did you just say you're running from the law? There's the place to be. You can call it 1-2-3-4 Shadway, baby. You can call it whatever you want. It doesn't matter. Now, I got to tell you, we got a shit bucket.

There ain't no running water or sewage out there. Paved roads ain't so good. You know, no central air. It's about 114 degrees out in the summer, so it's going to smell like balls. We got a mobile home. But it's fun. Wait, did I say mobile home? I meant fixer-upper motorhome.

It's a fixer-upper. It's all right, though, because what we're going to do is every Friday night, we go into town, we find a bar, we bring a nice girl home, give her a rusty Medina, if you know what I'm talking about right there. We hit her good. It's fun. We have a good time down here. You're going to enjoy it. Why don't you come over? So this is a fucking nightmare.

It's a man cave. Yeah. This is Shades of Phillips. And it gets worse, too, as it goes to it here. So they live in this trailer. We do so much hacky-ass Southern accent, but it is so fitting. It fits this. This is this behavior.

That's not even a Southern accent. That's just a shit-kicking accent. It's a different thing. If we go Southern, we could go classy, like Val Kilmer in Tombstone. You can go that way. There's a lot of different ways to do Southern. You could go Louisiana where you don't move your lips. Yes.

There's so much Southern. So many Southern. And we're not insulting those people now. We'll insult them when we do their episodes. But now, this is Western shit kicker we're doing here. Redneck, hillbilly. They might be from Maine, but they have that accent. That's the thing.

This isn't about where you're from. This is about how you live. And these people live like this. Sorry. They do. Finger in a girl, and it may be their cousin. They don't know because they didn't ask. Finger in a girl who may or may not be related to them.

And we only say it because they didn't take the time to ask. They just dipped it in there. They ain't real concerned about it, neither. I already dipped the wick, so it's... It's wet, all right? The wick is dipped. I don't know what you want me to do at this point. Now, one thing my daddy told me, and Coach Tommy Taylor told me also, you cannot un-dip a wick.

So I know that much. Once it's dipped, it's wet. And when it's wet, it's ready to go. You just use it. You just use it. You light that fire and you ride with it. This is a mess. This is a mess already.

We haven't even gotten to no violence. It's already a disaster. It's a mess. This is the part. This is like the together part of the story. So that's what this tells you. This is like, this is the good times. Like, if this was Goodfellas, Ray Liotta would be saying, those are the good times.

Like, this is the good time here. This is terrible. So, now what ends up happening here is Rusty. Rusty stays with the kids at the apartment for a few more weeks until about mid-February, and then they can't afford the rent anymore. And we'll find out how she makes a living later on also. Oh, boy. It's interesting.

I'm sure. So they can't pay the rent, so they move down to three points and move into the trailer. Oh, my God. With the two Dugan boys and David, Aaronid and aaron shadd in a trailer this is a disaster that trailer is horrible now it smells like diapers and balls how about like wow it's fucking great how they all fuck it we'll go our separate way and then like three months later, ring, ring. Listen, our way's fucked. Our way's fucked. We're out now. I see you're doing okay. Let me come fuck that up.

Can I use your shit bucket is what I'm asking for a while? Is that all right? All I'm trying to say is our shit bucket has overfilled. That's how they call something good happening to you. My shit bucket is overflowing. And it's so overflown that, listen, I can't lift it to empty it. So we're going to just abandon this one. Come stay with John.

What do you say? What do you say to that? Come on. What do you say? Jesus Christ. It's just fascinating how they keep constantly drifting apart, and then one can can't hack it and they just run right back to the other one. That's why we say all the time that people don't stay together because they want to be together a lot of times, especially these when we talk about people who are very poor.

Divorce is expensive. People just go, fuck it. And they just stay. That's what it is. It's a forced situation. They all know each other's needs and they're all codependent on each other. And we're all poor. Let's fucking pool resources, I guess.

That's what ends up happening. And it's fucking sad. It's sad because I feel like people's lives don't ever get to go to the next thing. You can't move on and break a cycle or even just escalate your way of life. Because it's just the way your system's built. And it's not even the way your system's built. And it's not even the system. It's the system that they put in place on their own.

Yeah, we have a lot of resources that help people do a lot of things. How about a resource that helps people get divorced? Right. That would be great. It's one of those things that we've never thought of, but I feel like that is a key element of this. And it's whether women are trying to get out of abusive relationships to be able to afford divorce or just people who are terrible for each other and don't belong together and are living terrible white trash existences fucking get away from each other. The problem, too, is that you've got to be able to acknowledge when you shit in a bucket, get out.

Done. That's the thing. You're done. This is the end of this. Yes. There's no more. Well, it's like that thing with couples and i said this before i was watching this couples go down the street right and if you see like if you're in a nice place yeah like a you know coupley area and you see like couples that are dressed nice walking holding hands you're like oh that's a

nice couple and they look like they're happy together and they look like they're on equal footing and all that but if you see like the couple in a shit area shit area, and there's like an area where there's no sidewalk, and they're like walking on a kind of a hill of dirt next to the road, and they're still holding hands, you're like, what the fuck happened there? How are they so happy? Yeah, because you look at that and you're like, that is somebody's fault. Right.

One of those two are more to blame than the other one. And how does the other one walk with that person holding hands? I don't fucking understand that. And I'm fascinated with it. If I pull up and I see couples like that, I stare at them. I look for body language and facial expressions and hostage behavior. And someone has to be holding someone else hostage. I'm more blown away by the ones that are like, the guy is walking like five feet in front of the woman dragging children.

I'm just like, dude, give her a fucking hand. What are you doing? I'm going over here. He's walking with like a shirt that's torn in the belly region. Like, how did you even tear that? How is that even possible? I'm fascinated with these people. I'm fascinated with these terrible couples.

I'm fascinated when they're holding hands. Even if you're both crackheads, one of you was the one who sold the furniture. You know what I mean? One of you did that. One of you was the one who did that. And yet, here we are. Here we are, holding hands. I don't know, but I'm impressed with that always.

Speaking of a couple holding hands, late January 1998, things are going well for Farrah and Frank, though. Let's circle back to that. Let's circle back to that divorce topic though because like it should. There's an old saying that the only person that wins in a divorce case is the fucking attorney.

You see what I'm saying? And the people who are getting to get out of a terrible marriage. Who fucking said that? Whoever said that's never been in a shit marriage. My point is that the divorce fees and the divorce red tape is so getting to get out of a terrible marriage. Who fucking said that? Whoever said that's never been in a shit marriage that they need to get out of. No, my point is that the divorce fees and the divorce red tape is so thick and so deep. But it doesn't have to be if you agree.

That's true. You can do it for like 300 bucks if you fucking agree to it. If you go, yeah, I don't like you, I don't like you either. And then a divorce attorney in that situation is salivating. You don't even get it. Because he's about to buy a huge house for nothing. These two, they're like, yeah, go file paperwork. Fuckheads, I'm not representing either one of you idiots.

But that $300 is a difference. That's rent on the trailer. You know what I mean? So I get it. How are you going to drive half a truck, you idiot? You idiot. How are you going to flush half a toilet, dipshit? Williams.

That's awesome. Williams, Frank Williams, is becoming a big man at Jiffy Lube. He gets promoted to manager of Jiffy Lube. Look at that. That's exciting. He gets transferred in July to they need to meet him at another store to make sure that store is going well. And this is Farrah's husband. This is Farrah's husband.

She picked her a winner here. He is transferred to the 3260 North Oracle Road Jeffy Lube location in January 1998. In Tucson. Co-workers there describe him as, quote, a real good, nice guy. All right. Everybody likes Frank. He's a good guy. He's managing the Jeffy Lube.

Hasn't been there that long. He's already managing and being transferred to new stores. I'm happy for him. He's a good guy. Now, also, Farrah, not doing so terrible either for Farrah. Anyway, she's managing a Peter Piper pizza. Oh. Oh.

You said that. You were surprised, but that's still terrible. Oh. Oh. That's good for her, but awful for humans. She's got that video games going in her head all ski ball. I was on a fast track to that position at 16 years old She's got that video games going in her head all ski ball. I was on a fast track to that position at 16 years old until I got robbed at gunpoint at one of those.

And I was like, fuck this career. I'm out of here. So she's making $34,000 a year killing life. She's doing it. She managed that. She's managing it about five months at this point. And she'd even talked about moving away to Texas. Yeah. With Frank possibly getting transferred

where there's stores for both of them where they could go. But they want to start a new life together, these two. But you got to remember, she's got that thing hanging over her where they're wanted for burglary in Oklahoma. Oh, that's a problem. Never forget that.

How the fuck? If that's hanging over all of us. By the way, how did she get that position? Listen, Peter Piper Pizza did a background check on a 16-year-old. Well, this is the late 90s. I don't know. Yeah.

I don't know. That's when it was. How the fuck did she clear it? This is Tucson, mind you. You lived in civilization. Right. This is Tucson with their life. You just come in dusty off the road.

They're like, park your donkey around back and get on in here and manage the joint. They don't give a fuck. That lifestyle, managing a pizza, not a pizza place,, a shit pizza place, because that's a terrible pizza. Terrible chain. It's the worst. It's awful. I just smelled it right now. I just smelled what your clothes smell like every night when you go home.

It's so gross. It's from a shit place like that. It's so vile. Co-workers described her as, quote, a shy person until you got to know her. So she's quiet. She's not an idiot. That sort of thing here. Now, January 1998, when this was all happening, these two are now they're like, she got promoted

to manager. He's in the jiffy lube. For them, they feel like they're doing well. Yeah. They go to visit. She wants to introduce Frank to her parents because she's, you know, they're engaged. So that makes sense. So they go to oklahoma

in january of 98 to visit farrah and shad's parents yeah now while they're there farrah tells her parents that she's planning on marrying frank uh she loves frank she wants she's planning on marrying him and in order to do this all with a clean slate because she wants she wants to start a legit life oh she wants to manage a fucking restaurant, have a nice thing, have lawn furniture and the whole deal. She says she wants to resolve her legal problems in Oklahoma. She's got to talk to the cops. So she can move back to Oklahoma because that's where she wants to live.

Okay. She wants them to all go back to Oklahoma. She wants to be able to go see her parents whenever she wants and not worry about getting pulled over and arrested for a fucking burglary warrant. So what she does, which is a terrible white trash problem. It really is. I've never had that problem. I want to go visit my parents,

but them damn warrants are just all over. It never happened. The Pinkertons are going to come get me. This is some really 1800s shit here. Dog the bounty hunter is going to kick in Peter Piper Pizza's door. This is 1998, not 1898, by the way. We're running out west to escape a warrant we got in Oklahoma.

That's not modern behavior. This is bananas. That is not modern behavior. Jay-Z is on the radio and she's doing this shit. For three years at this point. He's on his second album by now. Big Pimpin' is number one right now. This is big, yeah.

The other one's Reasonable Doubt's been over with. That's it. She's running from the law. Reasonable Doubt's a Foxy Brown isn't even a thing anymore. No one gives a shit over with. That's it. And she is running from the law. Reasonable doubts of Foxy Brown isn't even a thing anymore. No one gives a shit about her. She's over. That's how long this was. Long time.

Biggie's dead. Yeah. And Tupac. Both dead. It's bananas. It's still happening. And yet this bitch is running from the law. Going out west.

That's crazy, man. Going out west. So she does that. That's crazy, man. Going out west. So she does that. She asks her parents who can they figure out for her who she should contact to get this resolved, basically. What do I do?

I call the FBI. Yeah, I walk in the police station and we call the district attorney. Because I called John Walsh last week. It was on TV. I said, John, I got a warrant. And he was like, what kid did you kidnap? And I was like, none. He said, that ain't my department.

I'm sorry. I only deal in the suffering of parents and dead little children. That's the only thing I deal in. That is my currency. There is nothing I can exploit in this situation. And I know John Walsh's kid got taken, and I feel terrible for him for that, but it doesn't mean he has to be a sanctimonious douchebag for the rest of his fucking life. He's a fucking great asshole. Oh, he's got great hair.

Unbelievable hair. He always tries to look tough. And then they did this. Shut up. You're four foot two, sir. I would love to fight him. I would love to fight you. And this scumbag.

Fuck you, John. Come on, John Walsh. Me and you. I challenge you, John Walsh, to a fucking fight. I would love it. I will kick your old ass right now and give a shit. Let's get this scumbag off the street. Get this scumbag off a fucking fight. I love it. I will kick your old ass right now and give a shit. Let's get this scumbag off the street. Get this scumbag off my fucking TV.

I'll beat him silly and I'll go, I'm sorry for your loss. Your son did not deserve that. Because that's true. I feel terrible for that. Truly. That's fucking horrible. Horrific. And I honestly, as a human being, feel for him right up until the point until he makes

that scowl into the TV and acts like he's fucking doing something. They do something. He's not doing it. He's just a host. He's the host. The police then investigate. You tell. Never mind.

Sorry. So I can see where he's coming from in that. I get why he wants to do it. No, I see it too because he's like he's trying to correct society and hurting children and hurting people. But then he's like this scumbag killed another gang member that probably killed other people too? Fuck that.

Who cares? Just don't be a douche about it. That's all I ask. You're talking about this guy killed a kid and then ran away. We're on board. Right. We're fine with it. You don't need to put any extra stank on it.

We get it. You know what I mean? He's an asshole. We all want him caught. Thanks, John. Fuck. You never heard Robert Stack fucking roasting somebody on TV. No, he didn't.

No. Because he was too drunk. He just read the cue cards. He just read the cue cards. If it's not on there, I won't say it. Just staring at them. That's awesome. Anyway, so yeah.

So the parents say they're going to figure out who she should contact, but they're working on that. While they're doing that, Farrah and Frank Williams go back to Arizona, you know, because they are still wanted. And they have jobs and shit, so they have to go back there. They got things they'd pass a background check for. You know, that sort of shit like that. That's so crazy. So Farrah's mother ends up calling the apartment in Arizona a couple days later and talks to Shad. Uh-oh.

And she talks to Shad. What she does is she leaves him the Oklahoma district attorney's phone number. Not great. No. No. Because the parents don't know that Shad was involved in that. She just said, I have a problem. I'm wanted for burglary.

I'd like to clear it up. She didn't mention all that. So the mother's just like, yeah, tell Farrah she wants to talk to the district attorney here about turning herself in for that burglary. Here's the guy to talk to. Oh, boy. So Shad's not happy with this, as you imagine here. You know, you can think here. She gets home.

When they get home from Oklahoma, Farrah tells Rusty her plans to turn herself in. She's like, I'm turning myself in. I'm going to do this. I want to start a new life. She thinks she's confiding in her girlfriend, saying this new life that's going to happen here. But she's not realizing that, yeah, she's going to also have to turn him in, and he's not going to like this. So this is a problem here. Farrah tells Rusty that it's the only way that she could get a fresh start and go back to Oklahoma and live there,

is to go turn herself in, and also to tell the authorities about where Shad is. She's saying, I'm doing that. She's telling Rusty this. I have to. It's stupid as fuck to tell Rusty about this. I don't know why she would do that. By the way, I'm about to break up your happy home. Yeah, I'm about to take this father of your kid away from you here.

So Rusty calls Shad immediately and tells him about this whole thing. Hey, by the way, your sister's about to turn you in, just so you know. If you get a knock on the door, that's what it's going to be about. Jesus. They're going to know where you are. She said that she said, quote, planned to, quote, turn him in for his warrants to clean her slate and get everything off her back. That's what she told. That's what Rusty told Shad that Farrah told her.

Right. Okay. Rusty told Shad that Farrah told her. Okay. Now, Shad tells Rusty that he's, quote, going to have to do something about it because he didn't want either of them to go to prison or lose the kids. He doesn't want, you know, he doesn't want to go to prison. He doesn't want to lose the kids. He's saying he just doesn't want to go to prison.

Maybe you shouldn't have burgled a house, dipshit. That's a thing. That's a thing. That would have helped. That thought would have been nice to process as you were kicking in the fucking door of somebody else's domicile. Especially after you've been sentenced to eight years in prison for a burglary. It's not like you didn't know.

You've been told several times, enough times to land you in prison. We got a friend that has his ninth DUI, and he's about to go to prison, and he's feeling bad about it. I'm like, I got no sympathy for you, bro. Nothing. He got a DUI on a suspended license that was suspended for a fucking DUI. Which was suspended for a DUI, suspended for a DUI, which was, you know, cow jumped over the moon. It's fucking ridiculous. At that point, it's like, dude, I got nothing for you.

I have zero sympathy, zero pain. Ate the cheese and lived in the house. That's where we are with this. It's fucking stupid. That's where we're at, and lived in the house. And that's where we are. It's fucking stupid. That's where we're at, though, with this idiot. And that's the truth. Why do you swallow the fly? It's like, fuck you, dude.

Dummy. Go serve your time. Cab. Right. Uber. I know there was no Uber back in some of those. But some of them, there's been Uber and Uber times. And in this situation, pawn some shit.

If you don't have shit to pawn, get a job. Get it fucking together. Otherwise, you don't pay for whatever you need to pay for., pawn some shit. If you don't have shit to pawn, get a job. Get it fucking together. Otherwise, you don't pay for whatever you need to pay for. Or sell some drugs. I don't care, but don't steal other people's shit. I don't care if you sell drugs. Go crazy. You're not hurting anybody.

Sell drugs to people that do drugs. Thank you. I don't give a fuck. Knock yourself out. That's an honorable profession in Oklahoma. You know who buys drugs? People that do fucking drugs. People that do drugs, generally.

Yeah, so I'm good with that. That's true. You don't fucking open a street pharmacy and then a guy that has his shit together on Wall Street wanders by and goes, you know, I really would love an oxycodone addiction. That would be great for me. It's silly. People on Wall Street already have it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're doing all that shit. My point is somebody that's a fucking CEO isn't just- There's not some school teacher walking by going, I like my normal life. Hmm. Weed. Maybe cocaine. Right. That seems like fun.

You know, I'd really like a new habit. Yeah, that's good. Nobody's doing that. People that- Sell drugs. Sell drugs. Everybody. Go nuts.

Small town murder approved behavior. I don't give a fuck. If it's that or burgle. Right. Sell drugs. That's the one. Stop stealing from people. That'd be nice. So- And sell it at a reasonable- You know what. Sell drugs. That's the one. Stop stealing from people. That'd be nice.

And sell it at a reasonable. You know what? Fuck it. Don't be a dick. Rob them. I don't give a shit. Fuck it. Who cares?

When they take the money out, steal it and take your drugs and run away. We don't care. It doesn't matter. So Shad at this point starts to figure out how can I get this to not happen? He's obviously trying to get out of this whole thing. Clearly. He's not that stupid. So what he does is in February of 1998, Shad tells David Dugan, the friend of his whose trailer he lives in.

They live in the father's trailer. The landlord. The landlord or the landlord's son. He tells Dugan that Farrah had talked to him about turning herself in because she'd been told that she would receive a break on charges if she disclosed Shad's location. That wasn't part of what was said. Later on it was, though. He, I guess, confronts her about it, and she says,

well, I want to start my life over, and I'll get a break on charges if I turn you in. So sorry. Would she think he was going to react well to that? All right, then. I mean, he's about to give her a rusty medina. She should run. This is going to be scary here. Or he's going to get one in the joint.

Yeah, either one. Now, Shad tells Dugan that he feels Frank Williams, her fiance, is influencing Farrah to turn herself in. And now he says that he is going to kill Williams to control Farrah. Like, if we kill Frank, then she won't turn us in, right? Like, if we kill Frank, then she'll get over it at that point. She's thinking about turning you in for burglary. Yeah, yeah. Fuck murder.

Well, at that point, she won't know. But if they look at it, if Frank's gone, then they can encourage her otherwise, and she won't turn him in. And she won't have any reason to move back to Oklahoma to start a new life. There's a point. Because he's dead. So, oh's dead so oh well moving on yeah enjoy your extra bedroom in the trailer we're all gonna live here forever enjoy fucking terrible here so welcome home here's your shit bucket yeah here's here you go your own shit bucket don't forget to bring a bucket now everybody gotta have their own know what trash kind of shit around here sharing no shit bucket

everybody got their own shit bucket. Oh, Christ. Stop at Home Depot. They're like $5. That's true. So now Shad and Dugan here, they start to cook up a scheme to invite Frank over to work on Dugan's car and then shoot him while they're driving down the road with him. That's what they're going to do.

They're like, all right, let's do this. This will work, right? That never came to fruition. Of course not, because he works on cars. No, he works on cars during the day, and when you come home from work doing what you do, that's not what you do at home. If you're a dishwasher

at home, your dishes are piled the fuck up. From what I understand, he doesn't mind working on cars. He likes working on cars. That's not the issue. It's just they were just like, never mind. They just were too lazy to pursue it. It's a bad plan. It's just they were just like, eh, never mind. Like, they just were too lazy to pursue it. It's a bad plan. Like, they invited him over, but they just didn't do it. You know what I mean?

They're like, not now. All right. You know, it's just the game's on. You know, the game's on. I don't want to do this now. We ordered pizza and wings. It's going to be here in like 20 minutes. Oh, shit.

We don't give them an address. Oh, fuck. I better go out in the road and look for them. I'm just saying, a mechanics car is the most busted car on the block. Sometimes. It runs great. And then you have those guys that that's all they fucking do, and they love cars. That's true, too.

But he works at the Jiffy Lube, so I don't know. And he manages the Jiffy Lube, so then he's not under the hood the whole time. Maybe at night he likes to tinker. You know what I mean? That'll do it. That's a definite possibility. If he's the actual grease monkey, his oil change is overdue. He's got vice grips for the roll down.

You know what I mean? He's got that car. He doesn't care at all. It runs great. It runs great. He keeps the oil changed and shit. Aesthetically, it's not perfect. Oh, shit.

Hey, podcast listener. This is Rob Cisternino. I'm the Rob, and Rob has a podcast. And the new season of Survivor is just getting started. And we've got new episodes for you five days a week. Join us for interviews with your favorite past Survivor players and this season's losers right after they get their torch snubbed. Listen free to Rob Has a Podcast,

exclusively available on Apple Podcasts, PodcastOne.com, and the Podcast One app. And if you like the show, why not share it with a friend or leave us a rating and review on iTunes? So then this Dugan idiot and our buddy Shad here, they start having conversations about how they can murder both Frank and Farrah. Maybe we'll kill them both. Oh, Jesus. Who is this Dugan idiot?

He has no stake in this. I'd be like, just get out of my trailer. I live in a fucking trailer in the desert. I didn't rob anybody. I have nothing to do with this. And maybe he's just like egging them on, just being drunk, going, man, we should kill him. Kill him both. Maybe he thinks they're just talking shit.

Yeah. Well, you would think that, except the fact that they decided to dig a large grave on Okay, now he's in. Now he's in. That's what I thought, too. In for a penny, in for a pound. Shit talking. This guy, yeah, he's down.

But they said, let's dig a trench. Right. And they decided to do that on the property, in their desert property. They thought that nobody would think to look for bodies in this property, which that's where he lives, so they probably would think to look there. It's the first place. It's probably the number one place. Well, he lives in a trailer in the middle of the desert.

Let's check around there for holes. What do you say? The first place I'd look. Any sand disturbed out there? Because that's probably where she is. That's going to be where it is. Yeah. You see any wet spots or anything like that?

So they decide to come up with some plans here. They keep thinking. Is there a mound with like two crosses on it? Is that a thing? Like written Farrah, R.I.P. and Jiffy Lube guy next to him. They didn't really know his name. You know, is that there at all? Keep an eye out.

Bunch of rocks piled up. It says Boot Hill or some shit. Something like that. You know how it goes. So they come up with different plans here. Are there any crosses with like puns on it? Like here lies Lester Moore, four shots from a.44. Like an old Tucson.

Old Tombstone shit. Yeah, it's Tombstone. That's funny that Tombstone's such a great movie. It looks so cool, but there's a lot of cheesy set in it because old Tucson's so cheesy. It's so ridiculous. That's an actual cross in the cemetery. Here lies Lester Moore, four shots from a.44, no less, no more. Yes.

No less, L-E-S, like Lester Moore. Yes. It's the dumbest. Did they show that in Tombstone? They fucking panned across it really fast. What'd they do? They're like, don't let that shit show. But it is, okay.

It's in it. That's what I thought. I thought so. You're goddamn right it is. It's terrible, man. Jesus Christ. Somebody wrote that on a dead person's, like where he's going to be. It's real.

The guy that's really dead people there. That's Boot Hill. Those are real people that are buried there. I swear to you. Wait a second. Wait a second. That's not a reproduction of a thing? No.

Okay. Boot Hill Cemetery is real. And they built a studio around it. That's not a studio. That's thing? No. Okay. Boot Hill Cemetery is real. And they built a studio around it. That's not a studio. That's the real town. Old Tucson Studios. No, Old Tombstone. Oh, I'm talking about old.

Oh, shit. We're talking about two different things. That's not good. Old Tucson has replicas of all that shit. And that's where they filmed Tombstone. They didn't film it in Tombstone. They didn't film it in the real city? No, it's filmed in old Tucson studios.

That's why it looks so cheesy. Well, this is bullshit. It's filmed in old Tucson. We were talking about two completely different things. I thought they filmed it in the actual town. What are you talking about? They built it in a movie studio? Because that boot hill is for real.

Yeah, in Tombstone. Yeah, absolutely. They have the same shit in old Tucson. Well, then they panned across it because I remember seeing it. Yeah, I think it's a replica of that, actually. That makes sense. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Well, that's why they lit shit on fire. Now it makes sense. Now I'm seeing it. Yeah, I think it's a replica of that, actually. That makes sense. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Well, that's why they lit shit on fire.

Now it makes sense. Now, there we go. Now I'm on board. So, that's awesome. It makes sense that they wouldn't burn down actual tombstone. Now I'm on board. That seems right. Yeah, rather than just a set of thing that's meant to burn on a daily basis.

So, they're sitting around drinking these two idiots. How fucking, how did I get this far in life being this fucking stupid? I can't believe it. That's awesome. How do I draw wind? How did you get here today? I don't know what I'm doing. I navigated traffic somehow.

Jesus Christ. This is unbelievable. So this, these two idiots are sitting around drinking, being assholes and thinking about, well, how do we do this? How do we kill these two? So they come up with a plan. They say, okay, here's the plan. Okay. They're going to

lure Farrah to the property, to the Dugan trailer, under the pretext of getting her a puppy from his friend that lives nearby. How fucking horrible is that, dude? How far down? I got it. A puppy.

That's the only way you could get her to your house? You know how she's real sweet and stuff? Offer her a puppy? And you're going to murder somebody. My friend had puppies. Now. I got pictures of them. They're cute as shit.

They're all mixed. She won't know. What kind of dog does she like? Because these are mixed with Pomeranian Shih Tzu. There's fucking Greyhound in them. It'll have everything, and she's bound to like something in them. This is ridiculous. Unbelievable.

This is ridiculous here. How do you murder somebody that comes over to look at puppies? That's so callous. The plan is once she gets there, they would invite her out back, Shadwood, to go with him to look at a snake that he keeps in a small trailer on the property. Come on, sis. I'm going to show you the snake back here. Why? You know how you came over to see puppies?

I got a fucking redneck zoo. That's what this is. That's what this is, actually. Welcome to the Shad Zoo. So, Outsie, he figured outside the trailer, they'd walk up there. He would shoot her from behind with a gun he had hidden behind the back door. So, like, they would walk out, and as she walks out first, he would grab the gun from the back door. And as they walked toward the trailer, he would shoot her.

And she's already outside. They drag her out. They already have the whole thug. They dump her out. They already have the whole tug. They dump her in. Hey, Yahtzee, there we go. All charges dropped now. What body? Yeah.

So now what they would do then is after they shot her, killed her, they would lure Frank Williams there under the pretext of having him work on the car. Again, apparently he's a sucker to work on a car. Then Shad would also shoot him when he was under the hood. That was the plan. He'd open the hood, what's in here, and then he'd shoot him in the back of the head. Got it. So this seems like a great plan, obviously.

Right. All over his ass manifold, done deal. So it'll burn right off. So now they actually try to do this now, okay? They're putting this plan in motion. That's the one they stick with. They stick with this. Shad calls Farrah

over. She comes to the trailer. They go outside to look at the snake, but this is so stupid. This is a terrible plan. They're like, she'll walk out, never turn around, I'll grab the gun, she'll never see it, I'll shoot her in the back of the head. Unless she, you know, looks around like a normal person. Unless she turns around and goes, Shad, you still there?

Yeah, something. So what ends up happening, they go outside to look at the snake. He grabs the shotgun. As he grabs it, he's holding it. She turns around and goes, what's the gun for? Like a normal person would. Oh, in case the snake bites you. Well, what he says is he told her he was bringing the gun just in case they needed it for the snake.

That was his excuse. Of course. We keep it in this trailer. It's domestic and all that. But in case I need a shotgun to shoot this fucking thing because it's turned into anaconda. Right. Like, what is happening here? So she says, this was a stupid thing to say because she says, well, if he needs the gun, then I don't want to see the snake.

So if that snake is so big you need a gun, I don't want to fucking, I have no interest in this thing. Turned around, went back in the trail. Atta girl. So he's standing there with a shotgun in his hand like, okay, never mind. Plan foiled. Never mind. Shotgun away. What's he going to do with the car?

Walk out there with a shotgun. What's his gun for? In case the car bites you? Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't want to see that car. You could have that hidden in the car. Yeah, I don't want to see a car that's going to bite me like that. So they don't try anything else that day.

They give up that day. They're like, fucking plan thwarted. She looked. That's not much of a plan. That's the plan. If she just looked, it's over. Plan's over. And my point is, he's going to kill her anyway.

When she sees outside, when she turned around and said, what's the gun for? Why didn't he just shoot her? You're going to shoot her anyway. What, can you, when she turned around and said, what's the gun for? Why didn't he just shoot her? Right. You're going to shoot her anyway. What can you only shoot her in the back? Is that what it is? Like, is he a pussy like that? Yes.

If you're going to shoot your sister, you should be able to do that shit right to her face. That's a good point. Holy shit. What the fuck, man? So now February 19th, 1998, no one can find Frank and Farrah. They've disappeared. They've disappeared. Frank manages a Jiffy Lube and she manages the Peter Piper, like we said. They never returned.

I guess they were both supposed to get paychecks that day. Oh, boy. And neither of them picked up their paychecks. And if you manage a Jiffy Lube and a Peter Piper, you're getting that paycheck the fucking day it comes out. Right now. You're not like, I'm good. I got plenty of money for this month. I'm all right now.

You want that check now. I'm still flush from two weeks ago. Yeah, I'm good, man. That $348 I made two weeks ago. Really stretched. It's sitting heavy. It's just heavy. I got to let it settle for a minute.

A friend went to their apartment on West Cool Drive near Oracle and McGee Roads, and she became concerned when she got to this apartment because they had two dogs and a pet snake, and none of them have been fed, which is not normal for them. They're responsible, apparently. They're way less trash than Chad is. They're responsible people. They're trying to start a life. They're trying to break the cycle.

They're trying to break the cycle. They're going to turn themselves in so they can start a new life. They feed their dogs. They feed their snake. They have jobs. They still have a snake. They still have a snake, which is, yeah, that's going to be why a bunch of our listeners are, we have a lot of weirdo listeners who are going to be like, I love snakes. We get it. That's fine. And you know what? I had a lot of

snakes. I had a couple of ball pythons. I have no interest in snakes whatsoever. I'll tell you why I got snakes, because I thought it would help with women. No. I thought girls, do you know the kind of women that like snakes? The type of women that'll help have mullets. That's the problem.

There are some that are very nice and very pretty girls. Oh, yeah, sure, yeah. But those girls like very nice and very pretty men, and I wasn't that guy. You barked up the wrong tree on that one, huh? I was trying to get girls with snake tattoos on their face. That's what I was running into. That's amazing. So this woman, she calls the sheriff's department or she calls the sheriff's deputy.

They searched the couple's apartment. They're looking for the clothes that this person had last seen them wearing. Like, okay, well, let's see at least if they had changed out of that. They couldn't find that, so what they did is they fed the animals and left, which we can just sit there all night and wait for them. Somebody fed the snake. Yeah. Yeah.

Hold the little mouse by the tail. Maybe they just dropped some ground beef in there and walked away. Eat that, fucker. He'll eat it eventually. I don't know. they threw one of the dogs to it yeah it's fine this person returns the next day to the apartment either the snake will eat the dog or the dog will eat the snake either way one of them's getting fed something's gonna happen here we're done with this situation either way. Problem solved. So the friend comes back the next day, and when they come back the next day, they notice that a bunch of furniture is missing from the apartment.

And also there's empty beer bottles and smoked cigarettes there. Someone hung out there and then took furniture from there. So that's odd at that point. So they tell the police about that point, and they said the last time they saw them was the day before at 6.45 p.m., the day before the first day they came to the apartment. That's not too confusing. This person says that the last time they saw Farrah, Farrah said that she was going to Shad's house to collect a debt that he owed her. He had said that he had money that he owed her, and she was going to collect it. Much better excuse. Much better than a puppy.

Probably should have come up with that in the first place, but anyway. I know. I'll get her over with a puppy. No, no. Maybe a snake. Oh, a snake? No, no. Doesn't she owe you money? Don't you owe her money? I think people lack money, don't they? Wait a minute. I owe her money.

Let me ask you a question. What do you lack better? Snakes or money? All right. All right. We can go with money, I think. So what happened to them is the question. Right. What the fuck happened here?

How did they get down to? How is that the last one? It's not the very first last one. So, okay. Here we go. February 18th, 1998. What ends up happening is Shad and Dugan here make another plan to kill Farrah and Frank. All right?

And they're going to do this. They start preparing for this on February 19th in the early afternoon. Yeah. This is like a day-long prep session for this. Okay? What they do is Shad calls Farrah between 4 and 5 o'clock and asks her to come out to the trailer here to collect the money that he owed her, which obviously she's going to do. He told Farrah to have Frank come as well because there was something wrong with Dugan's car and they wanted Frank to take a look at it.

So you come out here. All of a sudden he's got all kinds of money. You come out here, fix the car, bring Frank, he'll fix the car, I'll hit you off with money, we'll have a barbecue, it's going to be a grand old time. Got it. Okay, so. You got enough the car. I'll hit you off with money. We'll have a barbecue. It's going to be a grand old time. Got it. Okay. So you got enough money to pay back debts and have a car fixed. How about get your own place?

Yeah. How about get out of the truck? How about get running water? Right. How about, how about pay your fucking go to jail? That's the other thing. Pay your debt to society too. He's not doing that. So what they do is, Shad and Dugan here, they start to prepare for this.

They hang sheets on the walls to capture any blood spatter and that sort of thing, which sheets aren't the best thing for that. You need plastic, I would imagine, for that. Sheets soak through, and then it's still going to be on your fucking walls. Anyway, they also place a blanket on the living room floor. Says an Italian guy from New York. Yeah, you know, a couple of things here. on the living room floor. Says an Italian guy from New York.

Yeah, you know, a couple of things here. They also place a blanket on the floor. Again, not the best thing for catching viscera of any kind. I would say you want something a little less porous than a blanket, but they're going to go with a blanket. At minimum, a fucking towel. Jesus. And then they slide the coffee table out of the way like they're going to wrestle on the living room floor.

OK. Come on in. I got your money. Why is this set up like a makeshift white trash killing booth? What is going on here? Why is it like if Dexter went white trash? What the hell is happening here? Why does it look like Dexter's first kill in here?

What the fuck is happening? So then they also gather shitloads of plastic bags, like a grocery bag, that they plan to use to cover up the bodies after shooting. A bunch of fucking, a bunch of Safeway bags. What are you doing? like a grocery bag that they plan to use to cover up the bodies after shooting. A bunch of fucking—a bunch of Safeway bags. What are you doing? This is ridiculous, man. So Shad gets ammunition out of a cabinet.

He loads a shotgun, and then they wait for an hour or two. They have it all planned out. Now, first of all, if you're Farrah and you walk into this living room, wouldn't you be like, what's up with the— were you wrestling and why is there shit on the wall? Were you having a photo shoot? What's going on in here? And why is that bag there filled with bags? You know what I mean?

It's that bag. It's the bag filled with bags. They used to pick up dog shit. Yes. But those people don't use to pick up dog shit. No. Because they just let the dog shit everywhere. They're going to fucking paper mache these people with those things.

Exactly. They're going to cover the bodies in like six-pack holders. Not cut them up either. So Farrah and Frank arrive at the property around dusk. Okay, they go up to the trailer. As they go up to the trailer, Dugan opens the front door and stood in the doorway while Shad hid behind the front door with a shotgun. Okay, so he's like, hey guys, come on in. And Shad's behind the door with a shotgun waiting So he's like, hey, guys, come on in.

And Shad's behind the door with a shotgun waiting for him to come in so he could shoot him. The plan was that as soon as they came in the door, he was supposed to shoot him immediately. They came in, how's it going, boom, boom, done, plan over with, which, fine, that's efficient at least. But as they were coming up the front steps, Dugan waved him off like, no, no, no, no. Go like, yeah, you know, stop doing that shit. So it was like, OK, another thwarted shitty plan or what? What happened here? So what he does is Shad walks away from the door, goes down the hallway and places the

gun in like a bedroom down there. And everybody ends up hanging out in the living room. OK. Frank Williams is in a recliner. Farrah's on the couch. Dugan is in a chair opposite of the recliner. That's the setup. And Shad is standing and kind of pacing around and moving around a lot, which is odd behavior.

If there's like a few minutes where they're just making small talk, sitting around, and then Shad heads down the hallway. He returns in 15 seconds from the hallway carrying the shotgun, and he stops about two and a half feet in front of Frank. Frank cursed at Shad and started to get up. Like, hey, you motherfucker, what are you doing? And starts to get up at him. But what Shad does is he shoots him in the midsection as he's trying to sand.

Oh, Jesus. So he blasts him with a shotgun, which must be loud in a trailer. Yeah. him uh but our what shad does is he shoots him in the midsection as he's trying to sand oh jesus he blasts him with a shotgun which must be loud in a trailer yeah uh so farah screamed all the windows just came out oh you know it the shit bucket fell over uh farah screams obviously and starts to get up to try to get away but uh shad turns and shoots her in the midsection also uh she falls down and then he shoots her back and he shoots her once in the head also to make sure. Oh, Jesus. So he's put two shots, shotgun blasts, in his sister. That's a lot.

And then he turns over to Williams and shoots him in the head as well. Oh, my God. Got to clean that up as well. So they're both dead here. So now that they're dead, they've carried it out, actually, this fucking terrible Raising Arizona Coen Brothers plot. That was a bad one. This is a terrible idiot plot

these two had. So what they do is they spread the blanket on the floor and they move their bodies onto it. They move Farrah and Frank's bodies onto the blanket. They put plastic bags over their upper bodies to keep the smell from rising out of the gravesite, which I don't think that's going to work.

That's not going to do it. That is not going to do. Dude, I wrapped up two chicken breasts in two fucking glad bags. Yeah, it doesn't matter. And my trash can was full of flies still. Yeah, it's still going to stink. And you can smell it three houses down. A few plastic bags on top of dead bodies in the ground in Arizona heat isn't going to do well here.

It's going to come through. Yeah, isn't going to do well here. It's going to come through. Yeah, this is going to be terrible here. So they also, Shad removed any of Farrah's jewelry that he thought was valuable. He took that, but not all of it. And he also went through Frank's pockets. So they're even going through their pockets, which seems even worse than just shooting them. I don't know why, but that makes it worse. Yeah, that's the other thing.

That goes without saying. Yeah. This is his fucking sister, no less know they've had no problem robbing the thing together but now you know i don't know this is terrible here uh so then they they tied uh shad and dugan tied knots in each end of the blanket and dragged the bodies out the back door onto the back porch uh leaving a bloody streak all over the floor because they're on blankets, you dumb fucks. Go to Home Depot and buy some plastics, you asshole. Not just that, but you opened his chest cavity and then his fucking head.

Both of them. Where all the blood is at. So much, so much. So much stuff. So much stuff in there to bleed here. So now they had dug the grave a week before the murders, like we said. So that was already prepared. Anyway, they had dug the grave a week before the murders like we said so that was already prepared anyway they had that all dug they hooked one of

and they hooked one end of the blanket to the back of Farrah's truck oh Christ and pulled the bodies to the gravesite you lazy fucks they dragged them like they're pulling out a tree yeah like they're pulling out a stump they dragged these poor people wrapped

in blankets to do that. They get them out to the grave site. This is fucking horrible now. He treated his sister like this. Yeah, just dangling off the back like a just-married can. It's fucking ridiculous, man. Like Corona bottles off the back of your piñata donkey. Like, this is terrible.

You can't have that shit. Wow. So they push the bodies into the grave, and then Shad and Dugan partially fill the hole with dirt. Then they return to the trailer and take the bloody couch and recliner and load them in the truck, too. They really should have done this outside like their original plan was. So do it while they're in the front yard, but not now. So, by the way, how far in the middle of nowhere do you have to be for no one to fucking see any of this shit? That's how far in the middle of nowhere we are.

The worst part is that, like, he's wanted for burglary yeah and that's what he's covering up burglary fucking murder double murder unbelievable double premeditated murder not smart not smart at all so uh what they did then is they gathered the uh they uh they took the like i said they got the truck the couch and the recliner loaded them in the truck and then they got the sheets and rags that they used to clean up the mess and disposed of them in the grave also and put everything in the grave and filled the rest with dirt. Yeah. Okay.

Meanwhile, Rusty's there too. Rusty's on the property with two kids here. Oh, my God. There's a travel trailer on the property that she was told to take the kids to and stay there for this event. Go stay out in the kids to and stay there for this event. Go stay out in the play more and we'll be over her. So she's out there. So he returns.

Shad comes and meets up with Rusty afterwards, goes and pops into her trailer after he returned from filling the grave with dirt. So Medina comes in. He's washing his hands. She comes in and sees him washing his hands. She comes in and sees him washing his hands and she walks back toward the bathroom. She saw the blood trail through the kitchen. It's a trailer here.

As well as blood stains and also pieces of flesh. Of course. And brain matter and shit all over the walls. You can't shoot people with shotgun blasts from two feet away. Of course. And not have some spatter here. This is insanity. So Rusty finds Chad in the bathroom

washing off bloody jewelry and money, which is a terrible thing to walk into. A guy washing bloody money off in a sink is fucking awful. Meanwhile, she just cleaned this pigsty and she's about to lose her shit. Yeah, she's like, you're getting blood in there now, damn it.

God, all right, fine. Well, you're going to give me a rusty medina later anyway. It's going to be messy, so I guess it's all right. Who tracked blood all through the house? Oh, Jesus Christ. So Shad turns to her and says, I did it. And he explained that he shot them in the head and chest. And fucking, she's like, yeah, I did this.

And this is like, if she was true white trash, she would have turned to him and said, well, it's about damn time, you lazy son of a bitch. You've been talking, talking, talking for months about killing these people. You finally got something accomplished, you lazy bastard. Now get out there and play Connect Four in the Playmore with the kids. My mother was right. When you common law marry a man, you expect more than this. Understand? You expect more.

That's all I'm saying. Understand? You expect more. That's all I'm saying. So Shad spends the next day, the next like 24 hours cleaning the trailer. The blood, everything, the spatter, all of this, and also getting rid of more bloody furniture in the desert at that point. So then Shad disappears. No one knows where Sh is okay uh the cops are looking for him

because they're looking for the missing sister who last went to see him and she was going to turn herself in they get they get all that stuff back and they're like he's a suspect right here on this one well also too you start looking into her past and you go oh she's wanted for burglary yeah uh and who else was she wanted with oh shad, Shad. Oh, she went to. Where's this guy? It doesn't take a lot for these homicide detectives to put this together. Also, another hint would be that Shad has fled in her truck, which, you know, he's got her truck also, which is a teal green Ford Ranger.

A smidge incriminating. A little bit. Oklahoma license plate BSD 311 here. She's still got a truck registered in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma from a year and a half. Wow. Well, you know, that's how it goes here. So now the father, Tim Dugan here, he owns the property.

And David Allen Dugan was questioned after Farrah and Frank disappeared. The police questioned him. He didn't run away. So they interviewed him and then they interviewed him again. And when they re-interview him, the first time he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know nothing. I don't know nothing. So then they interview him again and he's like, all right, Shad killed his sister and Frank

and he buried the bodies on the property. Went from nothing to, all right, yeah, they're both dead. They're buried in my yard. Sorry. I don't know what to tell you. Went from nothing happened to, oh, everything happened. Yeah, so it's insanity here. He says, quote, he, I don't know what to tell you. Went from nothing happened to, oh, everything happened. Yeah, so it's insanity here. He says, quote, he, I was talking about Shad, he was there and they were there and now they're dead. That's what, that's what, that was his statement on it.

That's a great statement. A great statement. Yeah, so they get a search warrant to, you know, look for the bodies here. Right. They do not find the bodies until June 15th, 1998. This is five months later they find these bodies. How did that dickhole not point them out? I don't know, but they didn't

find them. They finally found them. They exhumed these two bodies. It's four feet down, too. They dug a deep hole in the desert. That's hard to dig down there. That ground is hard. Caliche rock and wow. That's tough. They dug that deep. If you don't dig a desert for a while, it gets hard. Oh, hard as dig down there. That ground is hard. Caliche Rock and wow. That's tough. They dug that deep. If you don't dig a desert for a while, it gets hard.

Oh, hard as a fucking rock. Real hard. Yeah. Absolutely. They were found 350 feet from the mobile home there. And it's like we said, this is owned by his father's friend. Their family, Shad's family and frank's family are very upset obviously they said they would never give up hope that they would find the family a lot that they would find them alive

but obviously they didn't uh the armstrongs they have it tough because now they're all they're they lost their daughter and then they learn that their son is wanted for killing their daughter right which is a real mind fuck i would would think, as a parent. You just lost both your children. Effectively, it's over for both your kids. Yeah, it's a difficult spot for a mother to be in, I would think, to do that sort of thing here. Now, the relatives talk to the police. They say that Farrah and Shad had always been close. Shad lived with her sister and his boyfriend and her boyfriend on and off.

They were so close. They burgled together. They burgled together. The family that burgles together stays together. family that's wanted together really yeah if only they would have murdered together then they really stayed together so uh yeah they said that she cared about him a lot she took care of him she would uh you know if he was fucking up and needed a place to stay yeah her couch would be the place he would crash on that sort of thing because he worked like odd jobs and that owed his sister a bunch of money he was the fuck up little brother that

couldn't get his shit together uh so that's you know it makes sense that she would go over there to get i'm surprised she believed that he had money to give her now the bodies are pretty decomposed obviously five months in the arizona desert yeah that'll do it but they're initially identified by jewelry that he didn't take off her because he's a moron and also clothing and they have tattoos, too. So I kind of know who's who here. They appeared to have, as the way they put it, the police. The victims appeared to have been discarded without ceremony. They were thrown on top of each other.

They just dumped them. They just dumped them like a casino. I was just going to say exactly like a casino, like a cornfield mob grave. Oh, my Christ. Terrible here. That's the worst scene that I had seen up to that date. That was the most terrifying. I've never been more uncomfortable in my life.

And I knew it was fake. Yeah, but I was just like, oh, my God, he's in his underwear and they're still beating the fuck out of him. He's coughing blood and they're throwing dirt on him. I realize it's the mob. I don't know why the underwear part is the part they're in. He's in his underwear and they're still hitting him. Isn't it bad enough that the poor man is in his underwear?

Look at him. He's fat and gross and he's in his underwear. This is embarrassing. All right, asshole. You embarrassed now. I put you in your fucking underwear. You gonna do it again? No? All right, then. Get in the car. Forget it. And the bat noises? Oh, Jesus. Frankie, give him his pants back. I was so uncomfortable. I felt terrible.

I felt bad for Nicky. He was a piece of shit and to have that death, I felt horrible. That's fucking amazing Nicky. Yeah. He was a piece of shit, and to have that death, I felt horrible. That's fucking amazing, man. So they continue to investigate here. They find the bloody furniture from their trailer. They dumped in the desert somewhere because they couldn't bury that.

Also, June 98, Dugan gives a limited confession here in his participation. He claimed that when he came home on February 19th, Armstrong had already murdered Frank and Farrah and buried them behind the house. He just covered it up. He just knew about it. He didn't see it happen. Didn't know it was there. Didn't help plan it. Didn't wave him off.

None of that stuff happened. He's just, I don't know what happened there. I never said shit about puppies. Already. Puppies. I don't know. happened there. I never said shit about puppies. Already. Puppies. I don't know. I don't even have a snake. Shit.

Snakes. So Dugan ended up going at this point is when he went to the property and showed them the location of the grave site. But before that, he wouldn't do it. Also had a conversation with them about the location of the bloodstains in the living room. If you dig a little deep, if you rub some little luminol there, you'll find boom, boom, boom.

It's going to be all over. I've been watching this TV and y'all got that chemical shit. Y'all spray it, y'all find it. I promise. Man. Get your little Roundup container and just start spraying. Yeah. Do it up because it's disgusting. It's everywhere.

It's everywhere. Now, after four or five hours of digging, they found the bodies. They found sheets and rags and a pair of Shad's jeans that were used to clean up blood. Wow. And they just dumped him in the hole here. They issued a warrant for his arrest. Also for Rusty's arrest, too, now, because Rusty's on the run with him.

So it's Rusty and Shad on June 16, 1998. And they're out on the run for murder, and they probably have those kids. Well, let's find out where they are. Oh, my God. Okay. Soon after, they cleaned up the next day, and then they took off. They took Shad, Rusty, and the kids. They flee Arizona.

They take off. They go to Los Angeles, which is an odd place to go. To go to L.A. is a weird place to go. Man, you are 45 minutes from freedom. Yeah, right there. That would have drawn attention, go. To go to L.A. is a weird place to go. Man, you are 45 minutes from freedom. Yeah, right there. That would have drawn attention, maybe. Yeah, no shit. That's odd that you'd go to L.A.

They'll never find me there. Yeah, they will. Dib shit. They stayed in L.A. for seven or eight months. Really? They were there. That's a long time. The Vagabond Inn?

Yeah, probably where we stayed in Glendale. Jesus Christ. Probably where we stayed in Glendale. Jesus Christ. Now, Shad starts telling Rusty that he's actually sad about his sister and all that sort of thing. And he ended up explaining to her in detail what happened. And she was fucking horrified. Of course. He also said that if they were ever caught, she should tell the police that Dugan and Farrah had been having a fling together.

That Dugan and Farrah had been having a fling together and that Dugan didn't like Williams because Williams had gotten him fired from a job and that Dugan was the one who shot everybody. Okay. Based on his love for Farrah and his anger toward Frank. Love triangle. Love triangle. Got it. That's all it is. We had nothing to do with it. Early December 1998, Shad and Rusty and the kids leave Los Angeles and they move to where?

Odessa, Texas, which is why there's articles about him, because they were from that area to begin with. Got it. They live together on and off there. They have problems. If you're running from the law, you can't have fucking marital issues. You can't have relationship issues. You have to be together on the same page.

That should be one of the questions for the marriage license. Yes. You two want to get married. Okay, let's say that you guys murdered somebody. If you're on the run, can you get along? Is that possible? Can you do it? You're going to fuck that up too now. Because if you can't, no marriage license.

I like that a lot. Now, during this time that they're doing this, Rusty is working as a stripper. She's working as an exotic dancer and shad is staying home with the kids where is she working do they do not say they do not say so they're in odessa texas next time oh it's in odessa let's set the scene they're in odessa this is an la strip right uh she would be nowhere i don't think she'd be up to la strip club standards

because those are like failed out actresses who were anyway let's move on. I don't think she'd be up to LA strip club standards. Because those are like failed out actresses. Anyway, let's move on. I don't want the hashtag me too to affect us. Let's move on. We've done that. I don't even go to strip clubs. So I'm the last guy to ask about strip clubs. I used to.

I never was a strip club guy. I find it creepy and weird. I spent many a dollar. I find it creepy and dirty. And I don't want to touch anything. So that makes me not want to go there. It is weird when your feet stick to the floor. I have a weird thing about my hands and germs and stuff, and I can't do a strip club.

Well, the thing is you're not allowed to touch them. I wouldn't touch them if you paid me because I don't know that person. It's weird when your feet stick to carpet. I have shaking hands. I'm like, hi, I feel something. There's germs. I went to one strip club, and before we went in, because it's a piece of shit place, I asked the bouncer, how are the ladies? And he says, choice.

So we walked in, and then I promptly turned around and I said, whoever's choice that was, fire that motherfucker. Terrible choice. Very nice, Jimmy. And he told me, don't come back. And I was like, I won't. You don't have to tell me twice. Very nice. That's good.

I'm glad that you judged these women on their looks and turned around and deemed them not valuable enough for you. That's good. You're a nice guy. They're not worth a dollar. Nice guy. What kind of piece of shit am I? That's up for debate. We'll talk about that another time.

We've got to get to these pieces of shit because you're yours is up we that's a long story we can get into forever so let's set the scene they're working they're living in odessa texas i'm sure in a trailer yeah uh he's staying at home with the kids while she goes out and shakes her ass for money okay this is this is the general scene here and that's fine no offense if you're shaking your ass for money make all the money you can good for you uh this is a mess though this is a disaster she's not doing this for some sort of personal freedom no she is doing this to support her murdering on the run multiple warrants from multiple states husband and her shitty fucking bastard children that's what she's doing so that's's not the best circumstances to do it, to strip under.

Stripping at this point is her best decision. That is. So now they are watching TV, or Shad is watching TV on January 9th, 1999. And guess what pops up? America's Most Fucking Wanted. And guess who's on it? Oh my God. Him.

No way. Oh shit. John Walsh talked about it. He called him a bastard and a son of a bitch. And the whole deal hated him. So he's like, oh, shit. He calls Rusty and describes the contents of the show. This is amazing.

Yeah. He calls Rusty. He's like, I'm on the TV. He's talking about me right now. You too. I'll bet we got an IMDB. I bet we do. As self.

He tells her all about the contents of the show, tells her all about the reenactment of his actions. He wants to leave Odessa now that he hears this because they're on to me. Not that they said he's in Odessa, but he feels like sitting still is a bad idea. Rusty doesn't want to leave. She likes Odessa. She wants to stay here. I've got a job. I have got a job to do. I've got a to stay here. I've got a job. I have got a job to do.

I've got a mortgage. Sure, I've got a mortgage. Sure, I'm not managing the Peter Piper or anything like that, but it's still a job. I've got to do this here. So January 16, 1999, Rusty takes off to go. They have a big argument, Shad and Rusty. She takes off to go to the strip club. They have a big argument, Shad and Rusty.

She takes off to go to the strip club. And Rusty, when she takes off, she takes the children to the home of a friend of hers. That night, she gets off of work to go pick up her kids. And there are police waiting there at the place at her friend's house for her because they were just on America's fucking most wanted. So, you know, tends to be a little bit of a thing. It was one of the most popular shows in America. Yeah, it was. And people watched that shit.

And especially if you don't have cable, if you're poor, that came across on the antenna and you could watch it on Sunday nights. And also, too, if you know one of those motherfuckers, you might have cable tomorrow. That's the other thing. Because there is a reward. I'm sure there is. So, yeah, she tells the police uh that uh where she last seen shad and she tells him she's got no she's not hiding him at all uh she goes with them in the patrol car to the place they were oh boy he's not there they take

her to jail uh she gave several statements to the police the prosecutor to everybody uh immediately immediately following the arrest she cooperated with the police. She told them where Shad was. The whole deal. On January 18th, two days later, she's detained in Texas. She gives an extensive audio tape statement to a detective from the Pima County Sheriff's Department.

It's extensive, too. She tells all about everything, what happened, what she did. The real stuff. Not the story she told he told her to say no no no the story that he told her actually happened like all the details uh where they were afterwards what they've been doing the love triangle is out the fucking window is my point that's the thing that's not a thing anymore no she's not giving the stories okay uh also she gives a three-minute statement to america's most wanted which is pretty fucking

funny is john here i really want me i'd like that john his hair is just so pretty i would love to three-minute statement to America's Most Wanted, which is pretty fucking funny. Is John here? I really want to meet him. I'd like that. John, his hair is just so pretty. I would love to tell him I'm sorry for your loss. Tell him if he comes in, I'll give him a free ass shaking on the house. It's on the house. Just tell him to sit on down as long as he wants.

Somebody get my cherry pie queued up, and when he comes in. I know he's had some trauma, so it might take him a while to come. I realize that, so I'm going him a while to come. I realize that. So I'm going to have to keep grinding on him. But tell him that I'm ready to work it. Now, I'm ready to work it. You just let him know. He'll know what that means.

And then she did it. And when she was done, she whispered over her shoulder, I'm sorry for your loss. I'm sorry for your loss. Right at the moment. So that's amazing. I love it. So January 17th, 1999, they think they know where he is, Shad, based on her statements. So they load up the SWAT team and head to an apartment complex here.

Dozens of people were evacuated from their homes when they had state, local, federal authorities. Everybody converges on this on a northeast side Odessa apartment complex. They surround the place for seven hours. The Sun Chase apartment complex. Oh, my God. 2201 Rocky Lane in Odessa. The SWAT team stormed apartment number 322. I hope one of our listeners is in that.

Oh, that'd be amazing. Please, if you're in Odessa, let us know. And if you're in the Sun Tracker, is it Sun Tracker or Sun Tracer? Sun Chase Apartments. Sun Chase. If you're in 322, oh boy. Guess what? Yeah.

That door was kicked in. John Walsh was there. So they kick it in. It's empty. Nobody's there. Shad wanted to leave. He did want to leave Odessa. Maybe he did.

They still look for Shad into the evening because he's not there. This was after they had already taken Rusty into custody is the word I'm looking for there. Thank you. They said the police say that Shad is wanted in Oklahoma and Texas and Arizona. Right now, he's just wanted there in Texas with concealing stolen property, burglary, and a parole violation. And then they'll get to murder later. Oh, we'll get there. Once they get him here.

This shit will escalate. Yeah, yeah. They believe they cleaned the murder scene. They talk about the whole thing based on what Rusty told them here. What they did, it's so crazy, too. They had tracked the pair. It's so weird. Tracking them based on America's Most Wanted tips,

they got a bunch of bullshit tips. They said they tracked them to Tijuana, to San Diego, to Colorado, to Michigan. They never went to any of those. They went to L.A. and then to Odessa, Texas, period. That's the only places they went. Finally, they got a tip that they were there at the Sun Chase Apartments.

Turns out the tip was from Rusty. So that's not really a tip. That's just a telling on them. They showed up. They evacuated everybody. Like I said, surrounded them for seven hours. My Christ. And then ended up not having shit.

They tried to contact him over the phone. They got the megaphone out. Tell him, come out, come out. And then they finally bust down the door. There's nobody there, which I find fucking hilarious uh for seven hours they're screaming into this fucking bull for nothing uh the police the the captain here said quote of course we're disappointed but we have to go on what the witnesses told us and that's and that was that he went into the apartment and never came out again he had lived in the uh in uh right near

this apartment complex in the early 1990s and had been staying at this apartment with a friend for the last couple of weeks. Got it. The friend, they said, didn't they said, quote, didn't act like he knew anything about the homicides. He said he didn't know shit about it at all. They talked to the next door neighbor here and he's all freaked out. He's sitting there in the living room with a with7 on his coffee table, all freaked out. He lives next door. He said he was sound asleep when he heard the cops banging the door down because he had worked a 16-hour shift. He's a lab guy, a lab technician. He said, quote, they're standing at the door with their pistols out, and they said there was an armed person next

door. They gave me an armed escort to the apartment office. He said, it's pretty wild. It's strange to live next door to an accused murderer and never know it. He said, the gun is just in case. So, yeah. They shot smoke grenades from his porch, too. Jesus. His quote is, they shot the smoke grenades from my porch, and I thought that was pretty cool. I like this fucking guy.

That seems like what I would have said. I was like, that was kind of cool. That was awesome. I don't know. That was pretty neat. I would have said that, too. That was kind of cool. They also smoke grenaded an empty fucking apartment. That's amazing.

That's hilarious, isn't it? He also says it's fairly spooky and it's going to make him sleep a little closer. It will make me sleep a little closer eye. A little closer eye? That makes no sense, but who knows here. He's sitting in a...

He's an Odessa Texanan yeah it's not that's true he's not gonna be a brilliant man another guy phil garza lived three doors down and he said he ran he talked to shad one time he said i've kind of razzed shad one day about not wearing a coat because it was cold i told him he needed to put something on his kids too i had no idea he was so notorious it's like it's cold you should put a coat on your kid you fucking white man they told him he's a shit parent and then questioned his manhood i'm lucky to be alive talking to you right now they're looking for me as a goatee and he was last seen wearing white baggy shorts a blue t-shirt and a black nike baseball cap they believe he is on foot or using taxis obviously and, and they said he's, quote, extremely dangerous,

which I would probably agree with. So finally, the next day, they end up finding him. They find Shad, finally. He, at 3 o'clock in the morning, sleeping in a laundry room of an apartment complex. So he's at the little, you know, the shitty

little laundry room of an apartment complex. He's sleeping in there. And they feel like that's what he was doing from, you know, to escape from cold. He's been sleeping in laundry rooms. Because he doesn't have a coat. He doesn't have a coat. Yeah. He's pulling clothes out of the dryer and snuggling with those. That's not a bad idea.

They're warm. He had no weapon. He didn't offer any resistance or anything like that. Because what's he going to resist? He's in an apartment laundry room. Yeah, it's done. It's over. You're sleeping in laundry rooms.

It's over. He initiated a conversation with the police here. He signed a waiver of extradition to Arizona. He tells the cops that he and Rusty had argued about turning themselves in, and he said they'd separated because he wanted to surrender, but she didn't. Really? That's what he's saying? That's what he's saying.

He's blaming it on her. He also said that he did not want Rusty to, quote, take the rap for something that he had done and that he knew he would get the death penalty for what he'd done. Armstrong, Medina, and Dugan are all charged with two counts of first-degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder. In Arizona. In Arizona, which is not good if you know Arizona at all. Meanwhile, that whole love triangle story sure went the fuck away fast.

Yeah. Because he's just like, I don't want her to go to jail for what I did. Now he just changed it up. He had like a bunch of different stories. Then he's just like, nope, didn't happen like that. Yeah. It's crazy. He admits that he stole the furniture and other valuables to help pay for their escape.

That's why they stole furniture and jewelry and that sort of thing here. It's crazy what the cold will do to you. You know what I mean? How fast it'll change your mind. You're like, fuck it. Fuck it. I'm done. You get fuck it real fast when it's cold.

We've seen that with the one guy crime in sports trying to escape across a river by swimming. He got halfway across and was like, never mind. Come get me. I'm too cold to swim anymore. This hurts. This sucks. Yeah.

It's the truth, man. The cold is... It fucked Hitler. That Russian winter ruined Hitler's plan. The cold will fuck your day. Definitely. If it'll fuck Hitler, it'll fuck a white trash murder. So March 8th, 1999, the state files a notice of intent to seek the death penalty, obviously

here. files a notice of intent to seek the death penalty, obviously here. April 1999, Rusty gives a videotaped free talk with the prosecutor and also with Medina's, with her attorney present. Is that a legal term, free talk? Free talk. Just a chat? Yeah, I think it's just a talk. This is on record, but just talk.

Yeah, I think a free talk would mean that anything you say isn't going to be used against you. It's just you tell us what happened. Let's just have a talk here. Let's just have a chat. Now, August 27, 1999, Dugan announced that he would accept the state's plea offer of two counts of second-degree murder in exchange for his testimony against Shad. October 14th, 1999, the state seeks to sever Shad and Rusty's trials because they are going to use Rusty's statements against him and have her testify against him. The judge lets that go and grants that. Now, the judge also was, they were saying, the judge was saying, hey, you're actually

going to prosecute Rusty, right? Because the judge was expressing doubts that they would actually go through with that and to see whether, you know, he was saying, I want everyone to actually take a plea here. Right. I'm not going to have her just come and- I want all these people in jail. I want everybody to go to jail at some point here. Now, they moved to continue the trial in early January of 2000.

The prosecutor said she needed three to four weeks to deal with some personal issues here. They rescheduled the trial for the first week of January of 2000. During that time, the court ruled that Rusty's post-arrest statement is not admissible, where she gave the whole story post-arrest. That was

not admissible. January 5th, 2000, the state announced that she would accept a plea bargain in exchange for testimony. So now there's an official plea bargain on the table for her. Got it. And she will actually be called as a witness. She pleads guilty to one count of trafficking in stolen property and one count of facilitation

to commit a murder. No probation available. So she's going to do jail time is what you're saying here. There's a lot here about the timing of this that he's going to talk about in appeals. The timing of when they did all this. They said they were kind of they just didn't like the way

the defense didn't like the way they were kind of. They didn't know whether they were playing it fast and loose with Rusty. And it's a lot to say for a stripper named Rusty playing it fast and loose. But they're playing it fast and loose with Rusty and they feel a lot to say for a stripper named Rusty playing it fast and loose but they're playing it fast and loose with Rusty and they feel like they're kind of getting

they might be they think they're screwing around trying to get her to say more and offer her extra incentives and things like that so there's a lot there but they actually go through there's a state panel for this whole thing to see if it was a fair plea and the state panel said that it was a fair plea and it was okay.

So they go forth. Trial starts on January 24, 2000. During the trial, Ginger, the Armstrong's mother, this poor woman, she says that her daughter was angry at Shad for using her ATM card to steal money for her account and she was unable to pay her rent that month because he stole money from her. Also, they talk about how he, the prosecutor talks about how Shad and Dugan dug a deep grave a week before, planned it, lured them there, the whole deal. I mean, you don't get any more premeditated than this whole thing, for Christ's sake here.

So they all, they testify against him uh both rusty and david dugan testify against him and uh in uh exchange for plea agreements that guy that excluded the death penalty from there uh now the prosecutor spends a lot of her closing arguments uh talking about uh how all of dugan and medina's testimony matches to every small detail it's obviously they're telling the truth. Right. And obviously it happened just like they said. They both testify that he's been plotting to kill his sister after she learned to confess to the burglary, the whole deal here. Now, direct examination.

Also, Medina testifies that Shad wrote letters to her from jail and when she's in jail telling her to, quote, never take a plea, never to testify, because if she did, the kids would get taken away. He objected, Shad did, to Medina's testimony about the letter's contents, obviously in court, saying it was hearsay and all that sort of thing here. Here is the letter that they're talking about, one of the letters that they're arguing about. This is a rusty letter to him. OK. OK. Quote, saying the truth will set you free or it will set you us free. Baby, right now, that is how I feel about everything.

The truth. Believe me. Believe I'm not going to take a deal unless they come with one for testifying against him. Believe that. They mean Dugan right there. I'm not going down for anything crazy, for anything his crazy ass has done. Bad enough he's put us in a mess and we had nothing to do with.

I just hope the DA knows that he's lying and that they need us because they're going to try to get us for all of this and we are innocent and we don't need to go to prison for something that he did. And to think that our lives are going to lay in 12 people's hands for a crime that we did not commit is scaring the hell out of me. To know that we have to convince 12 people that we had nothing to do with this crime is so hard to grasp. I could care less to see

him because he's the one that took us away from our children and are putting us through this shit. Shad, serious question. If they came to you and asked you to turn on me, would you save your own ass? I wouldn't. I hope you know that I was scared. I just told them what they wanted to hear, but the truth will come

out and the guilty one, Dugan, will go down for this. That's what she writes him beforehand, but then truth will come out and the guilty one, Dugan, will go down for this. That's what she writes him beforehand, but then goes on the stand and says the exact opposite. Tells everything that happens, and then they're trying to say, well, she was telling the truth in the letter, not on the stand. When she was under oath, she wasn't telling

the truth. Only when she was writing a jailhouse letter that was the only truth there. Dugan testifies that every detail, he gives the details of the whole thing about the sheets and the dragging and the shotguns and the whole thing. He gives a horrifying detailed account for the court, probably worse than what I did here. Now, he testifies himself. He does. He's got no choice.

Yeah. He's got to go up there and say, I don't know. I love when they do it. He's got to. I know and say, I don't know. I love when they do it. He's got to. I know. I do, too. It's like, let's hear it, asshole. What do you got?

Give me your best shot. What's your story? So he says, quote, yes, I have lied. I've stole. I did a lot of things, but I did not kill my sister. I loved my sister very much. She's fucking offended by the fact that you would think that. He says he maintains he was going to the bathroom when he heard Dugan and Williams arrive.

He said he heard them argue. He heard Dugan and Williams argue. He heard glass break and then several gunshots. He says he saw a glimpse of Williams' body but feared Dugan, so he went back into the bathroom and lay on the floor in a fetal position. He's so horrified. What do I do? Oh, my God, there's a dead body.

Oh, poor guy. Did they ask him number one or number two? Like, how long did it take them? Fetal position, man. He's just fetal position. He was in the bathroom when they got home. Was he deucing or was he peeing? You know what I mean?

Yeah, well, they figure he's just had a tough one. You know, their diet's not great, I imagine. He's grunting one out, and they're shooting people. Exactly. And he gets up, he sees a glimpse, and he's like, I got to go back. He said he came out of the bathroom and he helped Dugan clean the floor, saying he started planning to leave town with his family because he believed that police would assume that he and Rusty were also guilty, obviously. So he said they all dumped the stuff and any of that shit. So now the defense attorney says, quote, does any of that make any sense?

Does any of it make any sense? He's asking the jurors about this whole thing. Why would he have killed him? It's obviously Dugan who's mad at Frank. This makes no sense why he would kill his sister to not go to prison on a fucking probation violation. By the way, that's what it would have been, I believe, his third strike there, too. So he's looking at life in Oklahoma.

Got it. So it makes sense that he would not want to be there here. It's life either way, babe. That's what I mean. He's fucked, basically. So they also consider all of these. There's tons of letters of correspondence between Rusty and Chad back and forth, and they admit everything except for the

quote, smut letters. They keep those out because they wrote some dirty shit back and forth to each other. I don't have any of those. Luckily, I don't want. I want those. I do not want want those you don't want an odessa strippers smut i can smell balls in a trailer thinking about it i don't want to read that shit that sounds terrible but also hilarious the jokes would be amazing yeah uh so now shad uh said that uh he he initially told his mother that dugan killed farah in a fit of rage because they had an affair. He gives the affair story.

Eventually, the prosecutor got him to admit that he lied to his mother about stealing from his sister's apartment. The prosecutor kept getting him to admit shit he lied about all the time. And then they're like, but you're telling the truth now. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now when it benefits me most, I'm telling the truth. It's fine. Wow. She said that the prosecutor said there isn't anything Shad Armstrong would do to save himself.

This is one of the longest and costliest trials in Pima County history at the time. Longest trial. Really? It's a 32-day trial. That's the longest? No, not the longest. It's just one of the longer ones. Okay.

That seems like way too long for a bunch of people going, I saw him shoot him. He has motive to shoot him. Right. He ran away afterwards. Right. His jeans cleaned up the blood. That's a fucking, sorry, I don't know. I think they were just bogged down and were like, how the fuck do we prosecute this shit?

All these letters. What do we do? You're a lawyer, right? I'm a lawyer, but I don't know what the fuck is this. Now, the trial also cost $24,521. The verdict comes out March 10th, 2000. Shocker. He's guilty on all charges, in case you were wondering.

May 23rd, 2000, Dugan is sentenced. He is sentenced. The judge is a little brutal on him, too, as far as what he says to him and everything, because he was charged with a lot. He fucking helped carry this out, which is fine. With the agreement, though, he could have been given as little as 10 years in prison with this deal that he made, which seems very light, very, very light. But they tried to make the judge realize what an asshole he was here.

And there's a Judge Hantman, and he questions Dugan about his participation before sentencing. He also notes that Dugan came from a loving and supporting family, had no history of violence or anything like that. He says, quote, Shad Armstrong said, let's kill someone. And you weren't busy that night, he said. What was it that drove you? The need for a PlayStation? The need for a friend? Like, would Grand Theft Auto have solved this problem for you?

What the fuck is your problem? Jesus Christ. Getting mad in 98, would that have done it for you? Would you have been fine? I love that he said that shit anyway. Anyway, the judge is sitting there and Dugan is in tears and all that thing. He's apologizing for helping to kill him and everything. The judge says, quote, this is perhaps what makes you so dangerous.

You have no insight of what you did. And he says, you, sir, may fuck off. And gives him 22 years, which is the longest sentence possible under the terms of the agreement. Wow. So he gives him maxed out, but it's still only 22 years, which the guy's probably out now, I figure, at the moment. I'm more kept up with Shad than Dugan. It's still scary that that guy could be out right now, and he's for sure an accomplice to murder.

Yeah. The weird thing is, too, in this whole thing, Frank's mother, Julie Williams, she gets up and says that she holds Rusty Medina the most responsible for the slayings during Rusty's sentencing. She says that she never consented to the plea agreement. She found Rusty to be cold, unbelievable, and incapable of remorse. And she also said that she told Dugan that she plans to attend all of his future court hearings. She said, quote, I can assure Mr. Dugan I will be his conscious for him, which that's funny. She's going to have – that's not great when you have a victim's mother there.

Dugan cried and apologized and said, I wish I could have done the right thing from the start. So that would have helped probably, but she didn't. Now, Rusty gets sentenced to two and a half years for the facilitation to commit first-degree murder and eight and three-quarter years for trafficking in stolen property. Really? Process that. Two and a half years for facilitation to commit first-degree murder. Wow. Two and a half years, eight and three-quarter years for stolen property.

That's ridiculous. We have shit way whacked backwards here. Our system is fucked up. This is Arizona. Our system is way fucked up here. That's ridiculous. We have shit way whacked backwards here. Our system is fucked up. This is Arizona. Our system is way fucked up here. This place sucks. But I mean, murder here is it is weighted so fucking heavily. Yeah, but it's heavily they want to get death

penalties because that makes them feel tough. So they need to, they'll give her two and a half years. They don't give a shit because that way they can say we fried him because they're fucking redneck assholes here. And now yes well let's talk about this yeah she said quote i was a coward i did exactly what he said and i can't express how sorry i am that was her deal here now august 2000 is sentencing for shad this is the one here at the sentencing hearing he lists uh 19 mitigating circumstances to try to say don't kill me basically including diabetes

he was under duress antisocial personality disorder mood disorder stress history of substance abuse troubled abusive and dysfunctional family good employment history care and support of family education and accomplishments which he got a GED in jail that's not an accomplishment efforts at rehabilitation lack

a previous record for violent crime although you were wanted on a third strike in a fucking other state. Effect of the death sentence on his children. Good record of behavior while incarcerated. Lack of future dangerousness. Sentence disparity between Dugan and him. And it's cold.

And it's freezing. Jesus Christ. The judge did find a few of the factors, but not all of those. They found the shit childhood, the fact that he did complete his GED while in prison, the fact that he tried to rehabilitate himself before, and the fact that

that sentence will be hard on his children. But I mean, their mom's about to be out. Yeah, well, the trial judge also said he afforded them minimal weight, is the way he put it, and determined that they were insufficient to call for leniency on these murders. Oh, boy. That's what he says. Insufficient for leniency.

So that's not what you want to hear. And he says, you, sir, may fuck off. Yeah. Death penalty for you. Wowza. So he gives them the old death penalty here. My Christ. Now, we'll bust through the appeals very quick. In the appeals, there's a lot. His appeal was like, it was based on prosecutorial misconduct.

That's it. 45 different things of, he talked to Rusty and made her say this the day before. The whole deal here. So his conviction is upheld. Oh, boy. It's upheld here. The decision says the trial judge in the instant case did not abuse his discretion in declining to preclude Medina's testimony. So they're fine there.

Armstrong can also not complain of surprise or prejudice. Medina was a co-defendant whose name was included in Armstrong's indictment. You should have expected that asshole, basically. We told you. Also, the letters they talk about here in that. Also, personal attacks on the integrity of the defense counsel, which is fucking hilarious. Apparently, the lawyers were fighting bad. I love it.

It's hilarious. They note in the court documents, quote, we further note that the level of antipathy between the attorneys was absolutely unacceptable. At one pretrial hearing, the court noted the following, quote, I have never seen such animosity between the attorneys. It is very unhealthy for everybody. There is so much at stake between Ms. Easer and Mr. Kurlander. I have not seen this. I have not seen this ever, either as a judge or a lawyer, and it is not a good situation. It's a man and a woman.

There is sexual tension. I like it. Yeah, this is like a fucking 80s sitcom. This is like Marky Post and John Larroquette are about to go at it in night court, which I don't think they ever did. So anyway, they say that his claim of prosecutorial misconduct is without foundation. And he did receive a fair trial. Counts are affirmed. Fuck you again.

Yeah. But he gets to appeal his sentence now also. There's an actual conviction and then there's a sentence appeal. Now, on the sentence appeal, they find that the judge's lack of emphasis on these mitigating factors were a problem. They find that's a problem. They say that we cannot say beyond a reasonable doubt that if a jury had found additional mitigating circumstances or weighed the mitigating circumstances differently, it would not have found them, quote, sufficiently substantial to call for leniency. So he's saying that wasn't the judge's job to tell them that. It was the jury's, right.

It's the jury's job. And the judge essentially was trying to make the decision for them is what they were saying. Consequently, we vacate Armstrong's death sentences and remand for resentencing. Wow. So they vacate those sentences. November 16th, 2006. They go through the whole court again. My Christ. They do this.

He sat on death row for six years. Again. Yeah. Now he's back again here. So now he's pleading for his life in the resentencing. The prosecutor urged the jurors to consider the facts and and sentence armstrong to death uh he said quote pleas of passion are not what you uh are not what you are to take into account passion and mercy are not what the law requires that's cold-blooded

shad said quote i suppose now is the time i should be asking you for forgiveness is what he fucking said that's what he told the jury. He said, quote, but what I did is beyond forgiveness. I'm not very good at words, and it's hard for me to talk to you and ask for what I'm asking. But I'm asking you for mercy in the killing of Farrah and Frank. She was the only person who was there for me. I think about her every day, thinking about what I did to her and Frank. I do not think of myself as evil, but what I did was evil. The jurors agreed with him, and they said, back to death row with you, cocksucker.

Fuck off. My favorite part is I'm not very good at words. You said enough words to get two women to marry you. You should be much better at pleading for your fucking life. The Julie Williams, Frank's mother again, she's good shit here. She said, quote, my son didn't die. That's illness. He wasn't killed. That's by accident. My son and and farrah were murdered and that's completely avoidable my lady

just fucking brilliant right there uh yeah uh so anyway that's that he ends up uh re-sentenced to death he can go fuck himself he's inmate number one five five six one seven yeah uh he is currently eating dicks yeah uh j? I think in Florence. They moved him a couple times. July 29, 2008 is his appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court. And unanimous decision by the Supreme Court upholds

his death sentence. And he's fucked. But no executions have taken place in Arizona since 2014 since we don't have the drugs. So maybe someone will run him over with a tractor or some sort of prison equipment or he'll fall in a vat of, I don't know, boiling acid or some shit. And I have no idea. In prison, he's fucked in that death row. They're so secluded that it's very rare that he's going to get anything.

I'm going to sit there bored for a while. So that hints twinges of Phillips, right? Yeah. Phillips, right? Yeah. Of Phillips, Oklahoma. Oh, it stinks. The only thing missing is I'm poor white trash, y'all. Nobody was fucking each other. That's the only thing missing.

They kept it above that level where if one of them started fucking each other, it would have devolved into that. Horrible. Up to and including killing his sister. Yeah. You know what I mean? Crazy, right? Minus child rape.

This is so similar. This is fucking horrible. This is nuts. Yeah know what I mean? Crazy, right? Minus child rape. This is so similar. This is fucking horrible. This is nuts. Yeah, that was beyond the pale, obviously. At the background of it. So that is three points Arizona, Shad Daniel Armstrong, poor Farrah Armstrong, and Frank Williams. God, terrible thing there.

We feel terrible for especially both of these families. I mean, the Williams, he had nothing to do with it. I feel bad for that family. And then I feel bad for Armstrong's family, too, even though they raised this monster. They still, if your son kills your daughter, no matter what you did to begin to cause it, that sucks. Farrah likely named after Farrah Fawcett,

and they loved her to death, probably. Probably the apple of mom's eye. I'm sure it was. Fucking jerk. So that's that. If you like that show, you sick bastards, get on iTunes. Give us five stars. Tell us you like us tell us whatever you want because it's not for our ego it's really really just for the business end of things if you're an even bigger hero like we're going to hear about from a bunch of wonderful

people in a moment here you can go to patreon.com slash crime in sports to make a donation that's or that's the one make a one-time donation. That's easy, too, over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. You want to follow the show on social media? That's not a problem either. Twitter at Murder Small. Facebook.com slash smalltownpod. Follow us there.

We have a lot of fun. It's a good time. Jimmy, why don't you hit us with that fantastic list of my favorite people. Let's do it. That's real. These people, you guys, every week do amazing things for us, and we can't thank you enough. Executive producer Jess Landrum, Chrissy Ann Cristaldi, and Sarah Gilbo,

thank you guys so much for continuing to be just fucking outstanding, outrageously supportive people. Thank you so much. Dana Grayson and the Crime and Sports Facebook group, thank you guys for being what you're being. It's so fun to watch that stuff expand and grow. You guys are terrific. We love watching you guys interact.

It's great. It's fucking amazing. It must be like when people get those ant farms, and they're like, hey, look, they're getting along. They're building shit. Not that you're our ants, but we're watching from afar because we have nothing to do with it. It's fantastic. Thank you. And Dana, thanks, brother.

I appreciate your help. No doubt. Vanessa Morgan-Jones, Ted Cyrus, Kelsey Ruggiero. Ruggiero. Ruggiero? Is it R-U-G-G? G-G, yeah, yeah. Ruggiero.

Okay, all right. That's an Italian last name. I'll help with those. Tasha McCoy, Kurt Vogeli, Jake Labier. Thanks, brother. I appreciate it. That one, he's been around for quite a while. Thank you.

Thank you, man. Megan Smith, she's fantastic. Thank you so much, Megan. Sarah McCullough, Christina Womack, Dina Jones, Susan Manning. Did I get those ones? Yes, I did. Dan Rogers, he's been involved a lot. He's cool as shit. Thanks, Dan.

James Cook, both of you. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you guys. Sierra Nelson, Linda Engin, Jesus, Anga Brettson. That's not so hard. Karen Nelson, Linda Engine, and Jesus, Enga Bretson. Enga Bretson, that's not so hard. Karen Lewis, Ariah Strauss, Jacqueline Hall. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. Nathan Blaine, Paul Roost.

He's the one that does those fucking memes. Oh, the memes, yeah. He's fantastic, Adam. Yeah, you rock, dude. Thank you so much, Paul. Ashley Boxler, Emily McCabe, Dominic Petrillo. He's the blind guy. He sent one of the Jake the Snake. Yeah, we're going to go with Petrillo on that, by the way. His name's Dominic Petrillo. He's the blind guy. He sent one of the Jake the Snake

off that format. We're going to go with Petrillo on that, by the way. His name's Dominic. He's probably Italian. He's not Mexican, so the L's are going to... I've been called Petrillo many, many times since I've moved to Arizona. Petrillo. Dom, thank you so much, man. I appreciate it. Thank you, Dom. We love you, brother. Gregory J. Cuimo.

Cuimo. Gregory J. Cuimo. I like that.ima. Cuima. Gregory J. Cuima. I like that. Or Cuima. I don't fucking Jesus. Either way, they got you good. Brandon Crowder. Michelle Jolly.

Ryan Baylor. Liz Caza. Amanda. Amanda fuck chow. It's just chow. Amanda fuck chow? Yeah. Wow.

That's aggressive. Amanda fuck chow. Coming for that ass. Kathleen Thill. Thank you so much, Kathleen. We'll see you over at Stand Up Live next week. That's going to be fun. John Brunson.

Is it Brunson? Brumson. Is it an N? That's an N. John Brunson. Abby Smith. Lucas Wesoloski. Stephanie Grout.

Jesse Hartman. Mojave. Stacey Lower or Lauer. Shane Raley. Thank you so much. She's been around quite a bit. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Shane.

Dan Hovar. Thank you. Horvath. Horvath a bit. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Shane. Dan Hovarth. Thank you. Horvath. Horvath. Horvath. Fuck Chow and Horvath. You're batting a thousand over there. Thank you, Dan. Under the Sea Fabrics. I don't know what that is. Google it and give them some help. Nicole Danzer. Yeah, Danzer.

Nicole Danzer. Christine. No. Kristen Alexander. Fuck my... Okay, Kristen Alexander. Fuck my, okay, Kristen Alexander. Autumn Allen, Emily Tincher? Yes, Emily Tincher. Mike with no last name, Emery McGaha? McGaha. McGaha, that sounds right.

Ashley Dawn, Kelsey Munoz. Thank you so much, Kelsey. Nicole Peterson-Green, Jackie Burrows-Anderson. Adam Shawesh, Kelly Walsh, Jennifer Barron, Catherine Perry, Caitlin Minguez, Leah Egan, the Egan sisters. She got a raise. Those crazy Egan girls. We love you guys.

Thank you. You guys rock. Thank you, Leah. She negotiated a raise at work, by the way. Kick-ass. I've never been able to negotiate my own fucking raise. That's right. Good for you, Leah.

You've had a job where you get 3%. 3%, get the fuck out of here. If you're lucky. Right. Cheyenne Flying, Evan Schmoll, McKenna Camille Martinez, Morgan Lee or Leah. It's L-E-A. It could be Lee. It could be Leah. I don't know. Randy Ginn

or Gin. It's G-I-N. That's just Gin, right? I would think. Like the booze. Right. Exactly. Teddy Donnelly, Jacqueline Hall would think, like the booze. Right, exactly. Teddy Donnelly. Jacqueline Hall. Again, she went to Patreon and over at PayPal. Wow, thank you. Thank you so much, Jacqueline.

Kyle Balco. Lindsay Sage. Noah Satisabal. Satisabal. Satisabal. Fucking, that's a brutal last name. Dan Schotel. Angie Moxie.

Captain Surly. He upped his donation. Thank you, Captain. Barrett Morehouse. Kimberly Cooper, yes. Rima Sanders, Buck Broadhead upped his too. And Buck, you're a fucking hero. Thank you so much. Matthew Madigan, Jessica Bertain, Mysteries and Urban Legends podcast.

I don't know what that is. Google it or just go to the podcast. Yeah, check them out. Mysteries and Urban Legends. Fleece Pittman, Vegas Matt, Phil McCracken, you son of a bitch, Jane Greaser, Mike McIntosh, McIntosh, either way, Kara Teague, David O'Neill, Peyton Todd Meadows, Ben Armstrong Mall Podcast, M-A-U-L, go listen to that one. Check that out.

Netta Marie, fucking, I forgot how to say this. Oh, Valcheva. Yeah, Valcheva. Valcheva. You said that two different ways. I remember how to say this, then you said it two different ways. Right. That's perfect.

Because I don't know. She's in New York, though. I don't know what I'm doing. And we're going to hang with you, Netta. I can't wait to see you. Come on out. I can't wait to meet you. She already is.

Keith Wyrick, Rebecca Elner, Alejandra Rivas, Nathan Nolte. He upped his donation. Thanks, Nathan. Tim Kwiatkowski, Rebecca Copeland. Copeland. Copeland. Copeland. Fuck.

It's C-O-U. It could be couple. Couple and. Yeah, C-O-P-E-R-C-U-P. That's a tough one. Sarah Blum, Pro Wrestling Scorecards. I think that's a podcast. Bronwyn English, and then Krista Hollenbeck. Thank you all. Thank you, guys. tough one sarah blum uh pro wrestling scorecards i think that's a podcast uh bronwyn english and

then krista hollenbeck thank you thank you guys so much for being so fucking amazing we can't do this without each and every one of you and seriously that's that's real we can't say we really can't if you knew exactly how much how true that is you'd be sad for us but it's actually very very true insanely true that we need you guys and we thank you profusely. It's invariably true. Thank you guys so much. We mean that too. You guys are amazing. We can't do this shit without you.

We really can't. It's true. It's 100% true. Did you listen to this episode? Did you hear something in it that wasn't there, like commercials? Right. All those commercials. There's a fucking reason.

There's none of them. Right. Yeah, the one ad for the show, that's a promo. We don't get paid for that. That's just a favor for the network. They shake a hand, they shake yours. They promo our shit on stuff. We promo their shit on whatever it is.

But we have no fucking ads. No one's selling ads for some fucking reason. So guess what? Thank you. You guys are the only way that make this even for me not to just say, fuck it, I'm going to sleep for the next couple of weeks until these cocksuckers get us some ads. Because I'm fucking tired of this shit. It hurts. It's fine. But you guys make it so it's

worth it. And we can't stop for you. We want to keep giving them to you. So no matter how we're fucked over on one end or another, we're loyal to you. You guys always come through, and that's why we'll always do this for you. And you always come first for us. So thank you guys so much. And what if one of these amazing people who we goddamn love so much

want to get a hold of a podcaster like yourself? You guys can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. I love hearing from you guys. So thank you so much for being involved and playing along. I appreciate it. What about you, James? Definitely. Where can they find you?

They can find me at JimmyPIsFunny on Twitter. Or you can just copy and paste my last name from the show description because there's an I in there and two L's where you don't expect them and it's a disaster. They're fun. You'll never spell it right. So just do that. Keep coming back each and every single week because, you know, we'll keep coming back. You know that. So until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. ADT can design and install a smart home just for you, backed by 24-7 protection. A new smart home at your service, customized for your lifestyle. Set up custom automations unique to your home to automatically do the things like lock the doors or set the thermostat when you leave. Even close your garage door from virtually anywhere. ADT will set up your home with multiple smart home devices and security features like indoor and outdoor cameras, locks, lights, and garage door control, even video doorbells.

Visit ADT.com slash podcasts to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at W wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting

all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.