Small Town Murder - #70 - Three Murders & A Strangling in Canyon Lake, California

Episode Date: May 23, 2018

This week, we look at Canyon Lake, California, where a series of brutal murders leave police clueless, until one victim survives, and this ball of yarn begins to unravel. Everybody is shocked when they find out who is responsible for the deaths of 3 women, and the attempted strangling of another. The only things more shocking are the reason for the killings, and the fact that they might not have been the only ones... It's a crazy one! Along the way, we find out whether or not you can make a boat out of cardboard, if a boogie board could be a motive for murder, and if finding the bank cards of 3 dead women can be considered just good luck!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the gated town of Canyon Lake, California, where police were looking for a serial killer and were surprised by what they found. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. We could not be more excited to be here. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. And this is fantastic. We have a wild episode today, and we're excited to tell you this wild episode. I slept for like four hours last night, so I'm jacked and full of energy. This story, we'll just say, as we, well, not as we speak, it's a little late in the day now, but

my grandmother's funeral was today back east. So we're going to do this episode in honor of her and you'll see why, because it makes sense once we get into the episode. But yeah, it's an odd tribute to one's fallen grandmother. We'll see. Very, very strange, but that's what we'll do here. Just want to thank everyone, first of all, for your iTunes reviews this week, because they were huge as always.

We say it all the time and we mean it just as much every time. It never is less appreciative. It isn't, and it's never less important. iTunes is weird. The way their charts work, those reviews weigh extremely heavily. So if you have not done it yet, please get on iTunes. Give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say.

Tell us what your first car was. That's good. That's an interesting Give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. Tell us what your first car was. That's good. That's an interesting thing to find out. It doesn't matter. It's just for business. It's not for our egos. It's iTunes and that damn funky algorithm dancing around. Dances of Charleston still. It's still dancing all the time. Just dancing, dancing around.

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That, though, we have to do the disclaimer. Yeah, unfortunately. Of course. Well, we have to. And it's funny because we were on WGN in the morning news. And thank you to WGN for having us on. That was great that you had us on. Thank you, thank you so much. Really, really cool. Even though the host said,

poor Larry and Robin had no idea what they were dealing with at 7.45 or 6.45 their time in the morning. I don't give a shit. I don't care how early it was for them. I had to be up at 3 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, and I hadn't slept at all to do this.

To a Paul Robbins. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is their question is, well, what's so funny about murder? And that's the disclaimer. And obviously we can't really do the disclaimer on the air on a morning television show. True. But that's what it is. I mean, we make fun of small towns.

We make fun of, because we're all from shitty small towns. We make fun of a bumbling police force lets a murderer go for 10 years. We make fun of murderers because screw them. Why not? You know what I mean? That's what it's all about. We tried to explain to them that we go out of our way to try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. And what we couldn't say on the air there is that we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. And I think that would have cemented it for them.

Maybe put them over the top. I feel like they would have went, oh, I get it now. But they were just like, well, I don't get it. And they were like, well, you just were at Park West. Apparently people like this. And we're like, yeah, I guess so. So why are you guys looking at us like we're crazy when 700 people came to watch it in one venue in your city? Makes no sense.

And five months earlier, they were there at fucking at another venue. But honestly, this is a comedy podcast. We tell jokes. We do. There's jokes in this thing. We try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families, like we said. But right now, if you're on board and this sounds good to you, then great. We're happy to have you on board.

You're in the car. We're on the way to the liquor store. We're all in this together. We're robbing the liquor board. You're in the car. We're on the way to the liquor store. We're all in this together. We're robbing the liquor store. Everyone's in it together. And if the lady behind the counter, if her brains end up all over the Marlboros and the cheap vodka back there, then you're just as involved as we are. I don't want to hear any goddamn complaining afterwards. I don't worry about it.

Nothing. So let's jump on in here with this episode. Like I said, keep in mind, this is for my grandmother, which will make it kind of funny when we figure it out. Great. Here we go. Let's go on a trip. Jimmy, you ready to go? We should.

Let's do this. Let's go on a trip. We're going all the way to California. All right. This time we were in Ohio last week with Rocky Barton. He was a fun one, huh? Fairly close to this one, too. We're right next door.

That's nice. We are not. We are from Ohio to California. I mean, where we are. Where we are. Yeah, it's right next door to us's nice. We are not. We are from Ohio to California. I mean, where we are. Where we are. Yeah, it's right next door to us. I'm like, what? I know that geography isn't your strong point. I know geography a little better than that.

I assume you know Ohio's not on the West Coast. Yeah, it goes California, Ohio, Oregon, and then Washington on the West Coast, right? Ohio, the Pacific Northwest. It's beautiful up there. Ohio, the jewel of the desert southwest. The jewel of the Mojave. You know how that goes. Carson City, Ohio.

Yeah, that's the one. We're going to Canyon Lake, California. This is a weird town, by the way. It's in southern central California. Now, if you look at a picture of California as a whole,, okay, doesn't really have a distinct panhandle. But if you were to use anything as a handle, it would be this part of the state. It would be this bottom part with Riverside County and all this. This is where you'd pick California up.

The ugly part. This is their panhandle, folks. This is what we're talking about here. This is where a lot of bad stuff happens, like Burning Man and Coachella. Isn't that right there? I don't know if it's in Riverside County, but it's— Coachella's real fucking close. All that desert is godforsaken land.

I'm sorry. It's all terrible. This place is about an hour and 15 minutes to L.A., about an hour and 15 minutes to San Diego. So it's east of the ocean all out there, and it's kind of evenly between the two. Equal distance. Equal distance out in the middle of the ocean all out there, and it's kind of evenly between the two. Okay. Equal distance. Equal distance out in the middle of the desert here. It's in Riverside County where dreams come true. Yeah, they do.

Always. No, they don't. It's the side of a river, James. No dream has ever come true in Riverside County. I'd like to know what river it is that they- Dreams die there. They do. They definitely do.

They definitely die there. Yeah. What river goes through there? N.W.A. almost died. Well, they did die because. They do. They definitely do. They definitely die there. What river goes through there? NWA almost died. Well, they did die because of Riverside. It took Snoop to resurrect them 20 years later. I would like autopsies on a lot of people to see if Riverside's responsible if we're going to get into that because I feel like Riverside could kill anybody.

Zip code 95287. Area code 951. It is 4.66 square miles. Not quite four of that is on land. The rest is a lake, hence the title of the town. And it's on this big lake, and we'll find out where that lake came from and everything else. This is such a weird town. Wonderful.

City motto here is a bit of paradise. Yeah, a little little little little bit that is not paradise that's riverside which is the opposite of paradise somebody some very little bit some salesman sold that guy a house there and was like do you smell that see my pinky nail that's how much paradise is here this is this is the butthole of paradise that's what you're smelling paradise is fucking oniony taint right here. It's disgusting. So the county motto.

It's a bit of paradise. It's paradise. It's not the good bit, but it's a bit. We got a touch of paradise is what I'm trying to get at you here. It's a little bit. It's just a smidgen. I think they mistook paradise for parasite. That's what it is.

Yeah, we have that. If you go anywhere near that river, you're going to have a lot of parasites. Enjoy. Right. Everybody's got a bit of parasite in them. And the county motto, now, mind you, if you're from another place or you're from another country or you're from the East Coast or something and you haven't driven the 10 past Riverside, wow, I can't explain to you how far off this motto is for Riverside County.

It is, quote, a great place to live, work, and play. Wow, I can't explain to you how far off this motto is for Riverside County. It is, quote, a great place to live, work, and play. None of those things are true. Objectively false, that entire thing. It's patently lying. No one wants to live there. If you live there, you probably work in L.A. and commute an hour and a half, and no one plays in Riverside. And if you do, I am going to go out on a limb and say, you, sir, are white trash. Sorry, we'll get Dexter Manley in here.

You are white trash. I'm sorry. You're very close to the sand dunes, and that's probably why you live there. That's exactly right. I prefer Riverside County. It's a dump, but at least the taxes are still high. That's what I prefer. It's a nice—let's be honest here with these people if they're going to move here.

You get here and go, this isn't a good place to do any of that stuff they said. It's a shithole, but you're still paying $4 a gallon for gas. Hey, have fun. Have a great time. You're still competing with L.A. people for your property prices, so enjoy that. History of this town. In 1880, the California Southern Railroad started to go through here. It's the Santa Fe Railway through this whole thing.

They started this in 1880, July 10th, 1880. The whole, okay. First, this is ridiculous. First, they wanted to build, their original idea was to build a rail connection between San Diego and Chicago. Got it. Which is ambitious. That's a lot.

That's a long way in 1880. Have you flown that far? Look out the window. Do you know how many Chinese people had to die, would have to die to go from there to there? Holy shit, there'd be a trail. Fuck, China would have like 40, 50 million people there right now instead of a billion and a half, because we would have killed most of them off just building that fucking shit.

Awful. Instead, they got to Barstow. Oh, boy. Which is like 150 miles away. Yeah, of course. And they were like, never mind. Instead, they got to Barstow. Oh, boy. Which is like 150 miles away. They were like, never mind. Yeah, fuck it. We can't get enough Chinese, I said. It's too hot.

They're dropping like flies. They all got sunburn and heat exhaust, too. Yeah, I told them to put their funny hats on. They put them on. It didn't help none. I don't know. I said all kind of racist shit about rice patties, and it didn't drive them nothing. I called them yellow bastards.

None of that worked. I don't know. I'm out of ideas. I don't have any other management techniques. That's all I got. Ying, Ning, and Long are fucking dead. There's nothing we can do. They had frog wars over this, which is not frogs in a military fatigue fighting each other,

which I would have thought, frog wars? How the fuck they manage that? I got excited for a minute. Like, that I want to see. Does that still happen? Can we have that? I'd love to see it. Obviously not with any military weaponry, but just groups of frogs that have had enough of each other.

Put razor blades on those little webbed toes. Fuck yeah. That would be a big... I'll bet you could lay a fucking frog open pretty easily with a blade. Then there'd be big groups against frog fighting. PETA would be furious. Oh my God. They're fighting frogs.

Do you know what those frogs are doing to each other? Oh my God. People would be horrified. Is that illegal, you think? Not yet, because no one's done it. It's one of those things where if you illegal you think i'm not yet because no one's done it it's one of those things where if you think of something that's crazy enough no one's done it you come up with a new drug you're like well that's not illegal yeah not illegal to you know eat the seed of whatever the fuck that no one wants to eat so it's nobody tried a papaya

center yet nobody knows that it'll fuck you up so it's one of those things I feel like. So this, Jesus Christ, frog wars. In reality, a frog war is when a small railroad company attempts to cross the tracks of another railroad company, usually a bigger one. They'll want to put their tracks across them because they come to a spot where they need to go and there's tracks already laid. So they're like, well, we'll jump them. And it comes in like a cross. A square, yeah, in the middle there. That would piss people off. So how does that – I'm fascinated by how the – just the engineering and the mechanics of that.

Like, is there somebody that sits there with a switch, or is it just the odds of them slamming into each other are probably insane? Let's hope they don't run into each other. I think it's one of those. Yeah, because they're separate companies, so they're not even like, hey, our shit's here and your shit's there. They're just like – They're just like, run it down the line. That's it. Go across. think it's one of those. Yeah. Because they're separate companies. So they're not even like, hey, our shit's here and your shit's there. They're just like- They're just like, run it down the line. That's it. Go across.

Hope it's good. Run a short one because we don't know when the next train's coming the other way. Well, that's what a frog is, is that square of the two tracks crossed on each other. And what they would end up doing is they would sue them and things like that. But for the most part, what they would end up having is giant rumbles between all the railroad workers. Hell, yes. So just groups of dusty railroad workers. Just punching each other in tufts of fucking carbon dust.

Oh, my God. Like powdered like a 1700s wig. Just poof. Stuff coming off them. It probably looked like that cartoon cloud when there's a brawl. That's probably where they got it. And then half of them died probably from malnourishment and sun and heat exhaustion from the fight. And blood poisoning.

And blood poisoning and whatever else they did to these poor people. Jesus Christ. So, yeah, they were building these. And as they're building this railroad, the native people from around here, they were like, hey, yeah, you don't want to build that shit there. That floods like every six months, like really bad. That's why that's barren and nothing's built there. Yeah, that's why we don't have fucking shit there.

That's why nothing's there, because it floods constantly. And they were like, stupid Indian, I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Get some Chinese people out and do this goddamn shit. Ching Chong, get goddamn whatever the God. Get Yin and Ming over here. Get Geronimo the hell out of here.

Get Yin and Lang in here and whatever the hell their names are. Put them funny hats on and lay that shit right across that canyon. These goddamn savages don't know what

they're talking about. Sure enough though, that's not me. That's a common thing they said. That's what they would have said in the 1800s while they're ignoring

a man who knows better than them about where to put the fucking railroad. Who seems to be in touch with nature. Yeah, that kind of has been there before. Sure enough, every six months floods like crazy. You bet. Fucks it all up. They have to fix it. And they're like, who put this here?

The Indians told us to. No, no, no, no. So they kept having all these things. This is floods between the huge floods in 1884 and 1916 were like total washouts of the rail line. Before that, it was just an inconvenience, all these floods. And then a flood in 1927 damaged it so bad that they were like twisted. It looked like it was crazy. It completely destroyed it.

That's when they finally said, all right, never mind. We tried for 50 years or so, and this is stupid, obviously. At this point, they called it Railroad Canyon because it was Railroad Canyon and it stuck. So they built a dam there instead to fill a reservoir at this point. The dam company, this is an awesome story. I love it when people like these companies want to build shit. There's some kind of progress. And there's one person who's like, hell no, I ain't having it.

And I don't care. I don't care. Just me? I'm going to stand up to everybody? And I'm going to, well, this is a woman who did this here. Just vehemently against the plan of progress. Yeah, I would say so. This was the Temescal company that was doing this.

There's a woman named Miss Ella Van Fossen. She is described by a newspaper of the time as a well-educated, middle-aged woman who lived only a few hundred yards downstream from the dam site, and she liked her secluded home in the canyon. Keep talking. What does she look like? Yeah, oh, she's fine, Jimmy. Just picture Dolly Parton in an apron, and you're good there. One day, trucks come in. They have all these construction materials and they get, they're going to the construction site.

And they find that they can't pass on the roadway because there's tons of rocks and wires. She built like a fucking hazard? She built a blockade. And including there, she also laid down in front of the blockade herself and defied the trucks to pass. Holy shit. Yeah, that's some white people shit right there. Somehow they got her out of there.

The police ended up coming, or who the hell knows what jackbooted thugs the railroad company had, or the damn people had to yank some hysterical broad off the road. We got a hysterical broad on the road. We got a hysterical broad on the road. We got to yank this fucking lady off. I don't know. She's on something. This ain't Tiananmen Square. There's no photographer taking an iconic picture.

No, no, definitely not. Everybody rape her. Everybody get her in the bushes. I'll teach her. Finally. Right. I've been waiting for somebody. It's about goddamn time. That's a about god damn time and now i got it

yes the 1800s and 1900s were a terrible time this was 1928 it was an awful time it was during prohibition we had lost our fucking minds and it was all women's fault back then oh that's what they thought well back then if you were a woman who laid in the road and showed you know some some uh gumption and some wherewithal, they said, what's wrong with her? They took her from the road to a mental institution. They're like, she's got to be crazy. She didn't listen to the menfolk. You understand?

That means crazy. She's telling us that there was a mass rape. Yeah, exactly. You believe that shit? Her noodles overcooked, let's just say. She ain't al dente right now. Let's just get it there. So she's there.

She's taken there for observation. They have to let her out in a couple days. When they do let her out, she returns to her property and sets fire to her house and all of the surrounding areas. The whole thing, huge fire. A newspaper from back then, the Sunday Morning Outlook in Santa Monica said, Jesus Christ, Miss Ella Van Fossen, said to be a wealthy Oakland widow, was held here tonight in a charge of insanity after she allegedly started the fire, which burned over 800 acres in Railroad Canyon and destroyed several cabins.

She burned every day to the fucking ground. She burned 800 acres. She burnt the whole area down. The whole goddamn area. People lost homes because of her lunacy. She didn't give a shit. Someone's going to listen to me, damn it. That's what she said.

Meanwhile, she destroyed it all because they were going to destroy it, in her opinion. She just fucking made it completely destroyed. That's it. So now it's a dust bowl with a dam is what they have now. That's all it is. It's a goddamn dust bowl. I saw pictures of like it's just a guy on a horse standing there in the middle of a dust bowl. It looks miserable at this point.

Like it's miserable now, but then it looked like, whoa, holy shit. There isn't even like a dispensary to stop at or anything like that in this town. This is just terrible. Dispensary? There's barely shade. There's or anything like that in this town. This is just terrible. Dispensary? There's barely shade. There's no shade. You see this picture. There's not shade for this guy would need to stand behind his horse if he wanted shade.

That's about it, man. So 1964, they decided to fill in a lake. They're like, we got a canyon. Let's fucking make a lake out of it. We got a dam right here. We can pen it in. Let's do it. So they decide to do that.

And I don't know if you know how they fill lakes, Jimmy. It's pretty interesting. You would imagine if you're from back east or you're from like Michigan or something, you have lakes that are just there. I don't know how they're formed. I assume glaciers are involved and rain at some point and something like that. A lot of people spitting. However there is, a lot of piss. However there is, there's a piss, however there is, there's

a lake that's just there that you don't know who put it there. You can't say, oh yeah, Bob made that lake. Right. Fucking lake's been there since the beginning of time, right? That's not how they do it in the West. In the West, there's no natural water, so they just get a big giant hole in the desert and they go,

get the hose, and then they fill it up. Literally, there's pictures of them filling this lake. It's three white guys standing there with a hose, just like hands on the hips looking at it like, This is going to take a minute. This is going to take a while. We should take lunch, I think. We should have got a bigger pump. Ah, this isn't good at all.

It's literally like a PVC pipe-level hose. It's not a regular, it's not a garden hose, but it's not like they have some four-foot-wide. It's like a three- or four-inch pipe, right. Yeah, it's not like they have some four-foot-wide. It's like a three or four-inch pipe, right. Yeah, it's not like they have a four-foot-wide thing like pumping ocean water in. This is just a hose with guys going, damn, what's... Hands on the hips just staring, fanning themselves with a hat going, I really thought this'd be faster. Going, damn.

Anybody watching going, fucking white people are patient. That's some patient shit right there that's how wow wait till it's done it'll be done eventually then we're gonna have a town it'll be amazing and they do they make this giant lake out of it when you see the the finished lake you're like there's no fucking way right they filled that with a hose they filled that with a hose ridiculous it turns into a vacation spot in the 60s awesome like a resort spot for it you know if you're this is what like okay where's where are people coming from to this resort this is what i don't understand okay it's too far to come from like arizona to go to it and there's

lakes man-made fucking lakes here right you're not coming from the ocean you're not leaving the ocean to enjoy a man-made lake are Are you? You're not coming from. Oh, pack up, guys. No, no. Get off the beach. Get the sand out of your ass because we're going to the desert to sit in a fucking hole that three guys filled with a hose. No.

Timmy, wipe that neon yellow shit off your eyes. Get in the car. We're getting out of here. So in 1968. He's got PBR to drink. He's got PBR, damn it. 1968, the Corona Land Company started the City of Canyon Lake. All right.

And they decided, let's build some shit. Yeah. It's completely gated. Yeah. 4,801 lots on here. I guess it's a model home. I'm not sure. Yeah.

But it's completely gated. You have to have a sticker on your car to go in and out and things like that. You have to like if you were a visitor they have to call the person you're the whole town though. It's not just like a neighborhood. This is a whole 4,800 lots is in a neighborhood. It's a goddamn town. That's a lot. It doesn't have a downtown area.

No. So they have like a nail shop and a restaurant a couple of restaurants and a clubhouse. Yeah. But they don't have like banks, insurance companies, things like that. Like, you know, things you would want to do, things you would need. Like a financial center. You know, like a town has. Like you have to go outside the gate for that.

It's really weird too. They have like, I don't even know what to call them, stormtroopers, I guess. Yeah. HOA stormtroopers. Yes. call them stormtroopers, I guess, HOA stormtroopers that go around citing people for minor violations of lawn length. And it's a $500 fine if you rinse off the undercarriage of your car. Okay.

Okay? $500 fine for doing that. Right away. Because they say that eventually everything is going to run into the lake. Okay. So if you rinse off the undercarriage of your car, it's going to run into the lake. Mud gets in the lake. Now, I don't know what they know about rain, but when rain comes, that's going to wash the shit into the lake, whatever's on the ground.

So it really doesn't fucking matter. But I get what they're trying to do to keep toxins out of the lake, but you go a little far when you start rinsing when you're saying that. That's the problem with a lot of regulations is that people are like, yeah, sensible shit. And then they go to where, well, you can't hose off the undercarriage of your car. And then people go, fuck it. Everyone needs an AR-15. It's like, what? How do we go from there to there?

But that's what it is. That's what fucking causes that. That's what everybody does. That's where I- Mass hysteria. Some people, I feel like that's where they go from there to there. I want to wash off the undercarriage of my car. I'm getting a machine gun.

Like, no, that's not the fuck. Anyway. Yeah. Moving on. So, yeah, you're not allowed to, like, rinse out. Like, if you're a contractor, you can't rinse out your paint brushes. No. Shit like that.

And so. Where do you do that? Like, in the sink? I assume. Take them the fuck with you. No, in your mouth, I think. You have to do it. In your mouth in another town.

Jam it up your ass and get out of our gate just get the fuck out i feel like there you have to go to like a church and a holy rinsing ceremony that won't end up in the lake uh we have a resident review of the place which are my favorite obviously resident review uh the title of the review is quote drug addicts alcoholics and snobs so that's a which doesn't mean endorsement. That's all that's there. There's no, they don't even, are they the same people?

No, I think those are the three classes of people. You have drug addicts, you have alcoholics, and then you have snobs. Right, and the snobs are like, the drug addicts, the fucking meth heads,

and there's the alcoholics, and then the snobs are like, they should be doing coke. Stop doing that meth. I was going to say, the snobs are, you know, heroin is better than coke. You guys are, I'm going to put my nose up at you. Why are you drinking that dickle? It doing coke. Stop doing that math. I was going to say the snobs are, you know, heroin is better than coke.

You guys are. Why are you drinking that dickle? It says, quote, crime is high. Only one incompetent police officer on patrol at all times. Car thefts, arson, and much, much more. It's more than arson. Would not recommend raising a family here. One star.

And there is no star rating, by the way, on here. She just put one star, which I find amazing. And the much, much. It sounds like a sales ad is what it sounds like. And much, much more. And much, much more. Arson, car theft, and much, much more. Come on down to Crazy Canyons where we have everything's on sale today.

Arson, rapes, murders, car theft, and much, much more. Ask us what's in the back. We have a whole section. Fire sale because everything has been set on fire. Fuck. 2006, the BBC came over, did a documentary on this joint, which is hilarious to watch. English people try to make sense of why people want to live inside of a gate in the middle of the desert. Their whole thing was like, why do you want to be here?

This is terrible, basically. It's called the United Gates of America. And it's not a fluff piece. It's not positive. That is a middle finger. It's not positive. At one point, he's walking around just talking to people, and he makes a big deal about how there's like it's all white people

there basically and he says at one point he goes he looks at the camera and he goes oh look there's a Mexican over there gardening and he's like that's all that it's pretty fucking funny they're only here to do our fucking the work we don't want to do yeah

they called it quote the world's most paranoid town. Perfect. Which is perfect. The people here were all pissed off about it, obviously, whatever. The population here wasn't even a town, really, until 1980-ish. The population was about 2,000. People there now is 11,080 people, up 40% since 1990.

That's a lot. Yeah. I assume that's people fleeing the prices of L.A. for here, driving the prices up here. Median age is about 43.4. It's a gated town, so it's going to be a little bit older. More females than males because it's an older town and you fuckers always outlive us. So that's how that works. Maybe I should iron more.

Maybe. Is that the aging thing? I think so. You're just going to spend that extra time ironing, so who gets the shit? Married population here is about 65%. It's normally 50%, which, I mean, you're not going to be—let's move to that gated community where all the chicks are. You just get swinging and go crazy there. So that sort of thing.

There's less divorced people, more widowed people. Again, with age comes that. There's less divorced people, more widowed people. Again, with age comes that. In this town here, the race of this town, white people about 85 percent. That's about what you would expect. 1.01 percent black. So not a lot of black people. That's not the one.

0.95 percent Asian. Okay. They keep them in a cage in case they want to start the railroad up again is how that works. They're like, but no, I've been here for three generations. I graduated from UC Berkeley. What are you talking about? I have an engineering degree. I went to UCLA.

What are we talking? I work at, no, I can't. Apple's going to be looking for me. I have to work at like 8 a.m. This is really not okay. Not cool, man. Give me the key, Gretchen. Gretchen.

Hispanic, 12.88%. So a lot of gardening there going on here. By the way, the residents gave this place and the resident thing that I saw this website, the highest, they have all categories, safety, this, that. Diversity got the highest rankings from the people here. Yes, they have blonde people, red heads, all kinds of white people they have there. All sorts of different white people. About 46% religious.

There's a fat one right there, Steve. We are so diverse. Oh my God. About, like I said, 46% religious, 2.47% LDS. They're inside the gates. You betcha. they're coming uh point not point zero nine percent jewish point zero nine not a lot one got in what they're yeah that's not a lot here uh very diverse obviously that's diverse and they're like not this place again

no 49 democrat 48 republican split pretty even down the middle here unemployment rates a little bit's a little bit high because, I don't know, you're a fucking gate. Maybe that's why that would be. Average household income here is higher than normal, though. Regular, it's about $54,000. Here, it is $74,682. Wow. So, yeah, it's a little higher in this area. The cost of living, though, we'll talk about, It should be higher because cost of living is $142.

We say $100 is average or par or whatever. $142. Housing is $223. Holy shit. $223. Holy shit. For Riverside. For Riverside.

Median home cost here, $414,200. Oh, my God. And $185 is the normal. Holy shit, that's a lot. That is very, very expensive. It's ridiculous, if we're being honest here, to live there. And if we've convinced you that you need to be in Canyon City, California, Canyon Lake, California, we have for you the Canyon Lake, California Real Estate Report. We have a two-bedroom apartment here on the average.

It goes for about $1,650. It's a little pricey, but it's not like double or triple the average. So if that seems like the way to rent, though, it would be the way to go. Because I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,200-square-foot house for $349,000. It was not a spectacular place. It's so much. It's so much. Found a two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,890-square-foot house.

Now, this one is kind of right on the lake. $434,900. And then I found a Scarface mansion. It has, like, the dual staircases. It's silly. It looks like some sort of movie producer lives there. It's five bedrooms. Canyon Lake. In Canyon Lake.

Some sort of like one that's been like winnowed out of Hollywood and pulled away. So they just like put it on a trailer on a flatbed and just drug it out. So he's been exiled. Take his career to the desert. He's done. That's what happens in Hollywood. Brett Ratner exiled. Shit.

So that's what happens after you show your dick to somebody and you have to go live in Canyon Lake. That would be pretty fucking amazing. That's the punishment that should be. People would never fucking do it again. Never mind shaming. To Canyon Lake. They'd be like, I don't want to live there. Just gate Cosby

and Ratner and fucking Weinstein. Gate them all in. Yeah, they're not putting any of these fucking people in jail, so throw them inside the gates. This is an 8,000 square foot house here for $2.8 million. So you're an idiot if you want that in Canyon Lake. Things to do. Lake crap. Lots of lake crap.

Fiesta Day, which is, they have a cardboard boat race. Okay. Yeah, it's white people. Cardboard boats? White people will make boats out of cardboard and then fill lakes with hoses. And they're very patient. I'm telling you that right now. A lot of water skiing.

That seems a lot of cardboard, right? I would imagine so. Do you waterproof it? Because that shit absorbs water. I don't know how you see me lacquer it. I don't know how that works here. You'll lacquer it up nice. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, it's about 20% lower than average for property crime.

And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, assault, also about 20% less. Mount Rushmore. Mount Rushmore of violent crime. Every time you say it, it gets me. Every time. So that's what you get. To live inside of a gate and not be able to wash off the undercarriage of your car or go anywhere or get services or do anything, you get literally 20% less crime. That's what you get for that.

So is that worth it, Tim? No. Is that worth it to live like that? No. It's not worth it. It better be zero. Yeah, that's what I mean. If it was like 96% reduction in crime, you'd be like, all right, that's not bad.

Maybe the gates work. I don't know. I don't know if that's enough. I don't even know if that's enough. You're right. Let's have some action. It's not enough to pay. Paying 400 grand for a house know if that's enough. I don't even know if that's enough. You're right. Let's have some action. It's not enough to pay 400 grand for a house. If that's not enough to keep the riffraff out, then fuck it.

Nothing is. I don't understand it at all. They don't have a sticker on their car. They can't get in there. So let's talk about some ladies that lived in this town here. Let's first talk about Norma Davis. This is February 14th, 1994. Time machine.

Yeah. Locked and loaded. They are flying through time. Lightning splashing. All kinds of things. We're getting dizzy, Jimmy. We're spinning around. I'm tired.

All the way back to calendar pages flipping, clocks spinning around. Yeah. All the way to 1994. Clyde Drexler running down the fucking court. He's dunking on people even though he's bald. Freaking me out as a kid. Why is that middle-aged bald man dunking on everybody? Why is he so good?

Like, oh, he's 28? Okay. Wow, he looks terrible. Shave your fucking head, Clyde. Jesus. I remember being 12, 13 going, shave your fucking head, Clyde. Good Lord, dude. It was gray when he was like 24.

You look like Carl Winslow out there trying to dunk on people. What the fuck is wrong with you, bro? Fucking shave that shit, man. Clyde the glide? The glide? No. Oh, man. He was great. He was an amazing player. But yeah, have a fucking schick glide across your head, you dipshit.

Your hairline sucks. He was a 90s basketball player, if you don't know who he is, that had a terrible hairline, and he was amazing. And he was bald, and he was like, I don't get it. This is so weird. Somebody's, like, retired dad is schooling you right now. Black Benjamin Button is just killing it. Yeah, he was like skinny Carl Winslow hairline. That's what he had.

Just dunking on people from the foul line. For no reason. We're going to talk about Norma Davis. Sorry. I was right there with you. That was a time machine run. Yeah, I was right there with you. What are we going to do about it?

There's only so much we can do here, Jimmy. 90s basketball, just real quick. Just the theatric. Dee Brown putting an arm in front of his eyes as if that blinds you so he could dunk. It was just a cool. So dumb. It was just cool looking. And we bought it.

Yeah. We were like, hey. We're assholes. It was great on NBA Jam when he would do it. He's like, he's doing it. He's doing it. I'll pick Boston even though I don't like him. Just because I want to see Dee Brown dunk.

Yeah. Oh, shit. So Norma Davis is 87 years old. She lives alone. Let's. Shit. So Norma Davis is 87 years old. She lives alone. Let's, okay, there's going to be several old ladies in this. There you go. So there's the grandma tribute here is surprised old ladies are, bad things are going to happen to old ladies.

Okay. Maybe. You never know. It's possible. I don't know. Maybe some old ladies do some bad shit. Who knows who's doing these things to these old ladies. You never know. Maybe old ladies do some bad shit. Who knows who's doing these things to these little ladies? You never know.

Maybe old ladies are doing bad shit. Who knows? Either way, my grandmother would be in on this, I feel like. Some elderlies. 87 years old, lives alone. If they were, all the women, let's talk about them like they're the golden girls so they're easier to remember. Because otherwise it's going to be hard to keep them straight because there's like four different names and all that. This is the Sophia of the group.

They don't all know each other either. They're not the golden girls. They don't live in the all that. This is the Sophia of the group. They don't all know each other either. They're not the Golden Girls. They don't live in the same house. This is Sophia. She's the oldest one we're going to talk about. She's 87. Picture Sophia from the Golden Girls of Stelgetti with her purse coming in the kitchen at 2 in the morning. With the most horrible comment.

Yeah, with the horrible, mean comment. It was great. You love Sophia. So this is this day in 1994. it's 9 15 a.m and uh alice will alice williams lives across the street from norma alice williams is like 86 years old yeah and uh she's her old lady buddy they go out alice drives still which frightens the shit out of me yeah uh alice drives still and was just going to say, oh, now we're going to offend somebody who's, no one 87 is listening to this podcast, I doubt. That would be, and if they are, someone younger is showing it to them.

Fast forward that part. Go back, say that never happened, and then fast forward. They won't remember. Find whoever told you to turn this podcast on and have them show you how to fast forward. Yeah. There's a little thing with a 15 and you hit it. It's complicated. Anyway, moving on. Poor Alice here.

She's 86. She's looking for Norma because they have appointments to go do. They go get their hair done together. They go shopping together. And these old people like groups like this, like you'll have like one old person who still drives in the group and she's responsible for rounding up all the other old people and taking them out with her to do errands all being old sounds terrible i just hope that i lose the ability to drive by like 62 oh i don't want to drive i'm not driving i want to be the one sitting in the back going just take me

wherever i go can you imagine driving a bunch of old people around? I need to get a key made. Jesus Christ. 17 different people going, aren't we going too fast? Oh, Jesus Christ. Fuck all of you. You'd have to just have the left hand turn signal on the whole time. They've been very, very close since Norma moved here. Norma's lived

here for about five years and it's 9.15 and she's wondering where Norma is because Norma's usually up by six o'clock. She has to take her pills. She does her normal thing. These old people are very set in their ways. They're very set in their routines and that's what she is. So she's going where? How come I haven't heard from Norma yet? What's going on? So she goes over to Norma's house. They're supposed to go to the beauty salon that day. So she goes over to Norma's house. They're supposed to go to the beauty salon that day.

Now, Norma, usually she's expecting Alice at this point, at least Alice thinks. And so it's her habit. Normally, Norma will leave the door open when she's expecting someone. But Alice doesn't usually just walk in. And she didn't hear Norma in there. She didn't see her or hear anything. she was yelling norma norma norma right uh but she's also 86 and her voice isn't very strong so she uh she thinks something might be wrong because uh alice does not hear norma's tv okay norma listens to the tv at volume 82 right

as loud as it gets as loud as she can get it which is what my grandmother does too and it's infuriating and she listens to the news at volume 82 and then gets angry and has to scream over the news. And it's fucking, oh, my God. I love quiet for that reason, I think, because growing up, that's all my grandmother with a dialogue with the TV. My whole life she did this. I can't imagine. Screaming at half an Italian, half an English, throwing things. I've seen her spit at the television.

She spit at Ed Koch once, the former mayor of New York in the 80s. She's spitting at Ed Koch. I'm like, why are you spitting at Ed Koch? And by the way, he doesn't even know. He doesn't know. You're in your own kitchen. It's like in Goodfellas. And spit on their own floor.

I never understood that. I just thought it was better to be polite and call the lawyer. That's what it is. Y'all like some coffee? Yeah, I offered them coffee. It's fucking ridiculous. Better to be nice and call the lawyer. Like, that's what it is. Y'all like some coffee? Yeah, I offered them coffee. It's fucking ridiculous. It's better to be nice and call the lawyer. That's right.

So Norma, she actually passed her driver's test last week, which is funny. Norma retook her driver's test. She's tired of driving with Alice. She's tired of driving with Alice. She's tired of driving with Alice. She needs, I need some autonomy. So Alice thinks maybe Norma went for a drive or something. But then she sees the doors open and she's like, okay, this doesn't make sense. She wouldn't have left and left the door open.

This is super weird. So she comes through the house. Alice comes in. Norma, Norma. She's calling her. She doesn't answer. She sees everything's clean and normal. She notices in the kitchen she sees that Norma's purse is sitting there in the kitchen right by the refrigerator where it normally is. It looks normal.

She sees that all of her pills are there, and her pills for that day are still in the pill. So she has to take them. Yeah, the little rattler. The week fucking box that the old people have. The rattler. Yeah, is that what it is? I don't know. That's what the fucking drug dealers call it. I got you a rattler, and it's full of, like, fucking little rattler. The week fucking box that the old people have. The rattler. Yeah, is that what it is? I don't know. That's what the fucking drug dealers call it.

I got you a rattler, and it's full of, like, fucking Cialis. What are you, buying black market Cialis now? The fuck are you doing? I did once upon a time. Leave me alone. Wait a second. Wait a second. But no.

No, no, no, no, no. Back this train up. I would get it. Let's go back about two steps to where you're buying dick pills on the street. What are you doing, Jimmy? I would buy my, so I stopped getting them. You should have been buying Propecia, first of all, number one. You bought the wrong fucking thing.

I'm glad I didn't get into that stuff because that will ruin your child. That's like, it has like terrible side effects. So I was getting my pills from my psychiatrist and then I just stopped getting them all together. Not those, not those pills. Yeah. But so I was getting, then I was, then I started getting my pills from a friend, a drug dealer. And I was just like, which pills? Dick pills?

No, that's what I'm getting into. Psych pills. My psych pills. Why are you getting black market psych pills? Because I didn't want it documented. And I didn't want it... The fuck do you care? What are you, running for ambassador?

The fuck do you care if it's documented? What are you, nuts? I just want it out. I wanted it on my own terms. So I was buying my control release. Oh, a lot of erections on my turn. No one will dictate my erections or my mood swings. So I was buying my psych pills from somebody else, and he would bonus me.

He would bonus me from time to time a couple of Cialis and or Viagra. Of my choosing. Is that a normal bonus? Do they not do that with Happy Meals? I don't know. He thought it was funny because he was like, if these don't work, these definitely will. Oh, my God. If these don't make you happy, try these ones.

Who the fuck did you buy drugs from? What is wrong with this guy? He was right. I don't know. I'm crying. I am crying. Anyway, so I would get my Rattler, and that's what it's called. Jesus Christ.

Glad I asked. Let me tell you something right now. I am glad I asked about that. Holy shit. Okay, that's twice now this week I've laughed until I cried. And it's weird because I normally don't. How fun was that one, though? I got a real quick sidetrack. Before we went on WGN News on Thursday,

we're Skyping in so we can see their feed on the computer in front of us, and we're watching the five minutes before us, and we're hoping that it's something light that comes on before us. Nice lead-in. The lead-in is, first it's a murder story, which is fine, then footage, security footage,

of a man with a machine gun firing it at people, taking cover, popping out, firing at more people who are like, oh my God, can't get worse than that. It's great footage, too. It's amazing. It's so close. It's amazing. It's like right over his shoulder.

It's almost like first person shooter video. It's fucking nuts. Yeah, it's like you went back one. It's like, I don't want to be first. Let me get back like in Grand Theft Auto. Yeah, I don't want to see it through his eyes. Yeah, you got to click back so I can see the perspective. I can see it through the windshield like a lunatic.

So we see that. We're like, okay, that can't get any worse than that. Then they show the story of the 10 abused children in Northern California and pictures of the squalor in the house. We're like, oh, my God. Jesus Christ. This is bad. The next one, we're like, well, itesus christ this is bad the next one we're like well it can't get worse than that and there's just this bus driving down the street and then it just

careens off into the sidewalk and fucking plows into these but we're like oh my god don't put us on and every time something more tragic happened we would laugh harder because we knew we were fucked and we had to go on after that they were leading into two guys that talk about murder with the worst stories of the day at 6 30 in the morning which is just their time which is 4 30 hours and i was delirious punch drunk i was stoned and delirious and fucking just been up all night i was like oh my god i can't handle this this is too fucking funny and then it was even funnier that when they interview us they're appalled by what we're saying i wanted to stop and be like get those looks off your fucking face i'm not showing footage of a man shooting people the past four stories

before you came to us is all murder all the time you can go fuck yourself you're mad at us for laughing once in a while sorry we're not just gonna sullenly sit there and go, it was more murder and it was sad and we should all cry. My bad. Right. Sorry. And Larry at the end of the day goes, sadly, there is no shortage of material. Yeah, we know. We know.

We saw four stories, motherfucker. Thanks. Yeah, you're giving it to us constantly. It's all you ever talk about. If it bleeds, it leads, asshole, and you're going to fucking be mad at us. Yeah, okay. Not that Larry's an fucking be mad at us. Yeah, okay. Not that Larry's an asshole, because Larry's pretty funny, actually. They do those promos where he's pretty funny.

I just don't think they knew who the fuck we were, and I don't blame them either. That's the other thing. I don't blame them. I'd be like, who are these lunatics at 7 o'clock in the morning? I'm busy having a professional news career, and these two dicks are making fun of us. Back to Alice and Dorma here, which are very old lady names. Yeah, they are. Hey, everybody.

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Alice goes through. She sees the rattler there with Norma's stash in it. Black market fucking pill stash. So, yeah. So they also think about, she says that Saturday they had gone to the bank and Norma had cashed her Medicare check and got $148 in cash, which is still sitting on the counter. Last time she saw her was the night before, where Norma went and had two keys made. On the first floor is Norma's bedroom. Alice looks into Norma's bedroom.

The bed is unmade, which is not—she makes it right away. The other thing, the closet door was open, which was weird, and a vanity was open, a vanity case, and there was a pile of purses on the floor. That's interesting. All the old lady's purses were piled up in the floor. So, you know, Alice thought this was very weird. She looked all around. Norma's not downstairs. So now Alice has to go upstairs, which she's not happy about because she's 86, and she's like, ah, you son of a bitch bastard.

You know, she threw a racial slur out there even though that had nothing to do with it. She was like, goddamn beaners. And then she went up the stairs like, what the hell are you talking about? It was very weird. And she's pissed at Norma for not springing for that wheelchair ramp. Yeah, I wanted to sit on that chair and glide right up the banister. What the fuck happened here? Cheap fucking Norma.

So she goes upstairs. She looks into her den. Alice's, or Norma. So she goes upstairs. She looks into her den. Alice's, or Norma's den. Norma watches TV in her den. In her chair with the TV on with like a shawl over her legs. Old lady shit. I mean like a normal old lady. Keep her toesies warm.

So Alice looks into here. She sees Norma sitting in the chair. And she's like, oh, okay, there's Norma. That's good. Oh, no. There are two knives sticking out of her chest. Oh, Jesus. That's what she finds. There's literally knife handles sticking out of her chest.

The blade all gone. All the way to the hilt. Oh, boy. With one in her chest and one in her throat. Alice obviously, you know, loses her mind. She falls to her knees for a minute, which can't be good for 86-year-old knees. She gets her shit together and finds a phone in the other room and calls mind she falls to her knees for a minute uh which can't be good for 86 year old knees yeah she gets her shit together and finds a phone in the other room and calls the police yeah and obviously uh

you know fuck what else would you do in that situation besides i'm super she's lucky she'd have a goddamn heart attack or something honestly uh so that's a fucking shock to see i would say so yeah you don't especially you don't expect to see it right she might have expected to find her dead yeah and that's not a shocker if you're 86 you hang out with people if you don't hear from someone when they're not when they're supposed to be there you just assume they died well i guess i'll never talk to that one ever again yeah like if you're late i assume traffic i assume maybe you had to take a shower before you left the house it could be a fight with the wife yeah fucking something with the kids you had to do or take care of if someone's over 80 and they're 15 minutes late it's 60 40 they're dead probably it's that's all

seven you're panicking yeah you're like they're probably dead probably you're dead i would say so she uh she called 9-1-1 she had her shit together there uh seeing just i mean by like the shock of seeing that scene if you don't even know the person i you'd lose your mind anyway yeah and now it's somebody that's fucking close to you to see it brutal and nor alice freaked out because alice is like oh my god is this person still here yeah uh are they in my house now are they going around killing all the old ladies in the neighborhood is this like she freaked out she's just like the scared woman now. Now she's got her friend's murdered body. And she's got to go back down those fucking stairs.

That's going to be an adventure in itself right there. Might be less dangerous to deal with the guy with the knife person. She might just want to plank those top two stairs and just slide the fuck down. You know what I mean? Did you ever do that when you were a kid? Of course. That was the best. That was the best, yeah.

Just flatten out and just haul ass down them. And then do that and recover from your broken tailbone. And the rug burn on your thighs. And your thigh rug burn. What the hell were we thinking? So they enter, the police enter. There's a parquet floor in the entryway. Parquet is like wood planks, like the old Boston Garden floor, basically.

Fucking great. A lot of hawks. It's old school, the parquet floors. So what they do is there's a cop that has his flashlight under his arm. Like they hold it there when they're doing something, putting gloves on or whatever, put it under your arm. And he sees the flashlight over the floor and sees dust on the floor. Awesome.

And can see a footprint in the floor. And looks, and he's cocking the flashlight, and he says, it's a Nike. Look at that. And you can see, I have crime scene photos where you can see the footprint, and you can see the swoosh in it and everything. How cool is that? It's pretty fucking, it's pretty clear that it's a small Nike. It's like a smaller size Nike.

Like a kid's? Just a smaller size. So they're like, that's very, very fucking interesting. The shoe print is aimed at the kitchen. So it's an entry shoe print. So they're like, okay, this is something to look at. They check Alice out. She's not wearing Nikes.

Alice wasn't dunking very much these days. She used to. She used to ball. But then once Clyde drexler came along she said you know what i can't compete with this guy anymore i'm gonna retire right the detectives continue into the house now they have a footprint that's one clue they find a uh phone cord cut in the house as well which is pretty intentional that's a bad sign when you see a phone cord cut because when someone goes in and cuts a phone cord, they mean fucking business at that point.

I don't want you calling. They're not thinking about something. They're going to do some shit. Right. So the print, though, they're talking about the shoe print. They said it seems like it is, you know, possibly like it's small like a child or a woman. The design of it they think is like a woman and a smaller woman. So that made them feel less certain that that was the killer's footprint.

They're like, this is like a small woman's footprint. It's probably not what we're looking for. But they preserve it anyway and do everything. Yeah. Women can't kill. Right. So they're like, usually though, brutal double knife in an old lady's chest is usually a male crime.

It's something like that. It's pretty violent. And we'll talk about exactly what happened because that wasn't the only injury. So it's a very violent crime. So they're thinking it's probably a man here. But they preserve the footprint nonetheless here. They find underneath Norma, they find a bloody phone. So they're thinking that, you know, she couldn't get to the phone for whatever reason because it was like under her and she bled on it.

She couldn't get to the phone for whatever reason because it was like under her and she bled on it. They think that obviously her killer had to know how to get into the community as well as the house. So there's no break-ins and no like evidence of a break-in. So they ask the family members if there's – is there anybody she feels comfortable allowing inside. They call the front – they check with the front gate security to see if anybody had visited her, you know, because they have all that shit on record. Yeah. Anything like that never happened.

So anyway, as they're investigating, they have to take the knives out. And this is fucking rough. And the description of this is rough. And I had to hear it. So fuck you guys. Is that when they do it? They don't do it like. No, no, no. I guess that makes sense.

No, they take them out now because they have to they have to bag the evidence to take the knives as evidence. And this is after it's photographed, after everything's processed, after everything. Now they've got to take the knives out. And then take the body away. And then take the body away because they have to examine the body fuller. They take all the photos of where it was, and now they need to find out where is there any other wounds. And they take them away for medical examination.

But the detectives need to find certain, just as much information as they can off the bat to go look. Yeah. I guess I never thought about that. I just assumed like you find somebody stabbed up, you'd pick that shit up and put it on a gurney and get it to the crime lab. But no, you've got to- You've got to look over it a little bit.

Oh, boy. This is fucking intense. So the detective takes this knife and he's trying to get it out of her chest. Apparently, it's not easy get it out of her chest apparently it's not easy to get out of her chest he's trying to pull on it he ends up placing his hand on her forehead as leverage

to pull it but as he does that this is graphic as he does that as he pushes on her forehead basically her head flops completely back and her head is 90 percent cut off. Oh, my God. Like a Pez dispenser. Oh, Jesus.

And everybody was like, holy Jesus Christ. Freaked out. Pull back. Yeah. Her whole that other second night, she had been like basically had her head almost cut off, which is a really, really. Wow. I mean, that's a lot. That's a lot of force.

What a little old lady. And a lot of anger. Who still has an Afghan on her fucking feet. And she still has the Afghan. That's what I mean. Like, you can't fucking discount that. This is just a little old lady. The police officer said at this point, whoever did this almost cut her head off, obviously.

So they do the autopsy. Autopsy indicates that Norma had been stabbed 11 times, including those two. 11 times. So this was not just two whatever. But that's not the worst part of it. The worst part of it is she'd been manually strangled. Manually strangled. Before. Oh, my God.

All the stab wounds are post-mortem. What the fuck? She was strangled to death and then stabbed 11 times and left the last two in her. That's why she still got the Afghan on her. That's why. Yeah. She was strangled from the back sitting in the chair. She's already dead.

She got stabbed up. Wow. They said a great force it took to manually strangle her in the way that it happened. Great force it took to manually strangle her in the way that it happened. Other thing that's odd, no items of value taken from the home, no money from Norma's purse, and a diamond ring was left on her finger. So this is either the worst fucking robbery ever or this shit is personal or something. But who is that angry at an 87-year-old lady? I mean, honestly. You've got to be so pissed.

She goes out of the gate like twice a week like who who is she pissing off was she in with the mob was she yeah she have like a racketeering thing on the side she hasn't been making her payments on time check that lazy guard at the gate who doesn't want to get out and check the sticker on the car well the first people they do check out is every mexican in town literally the they said day one was gardeners housekeepers and service personnel everybody whose last name ends with a vowel we got any mexicans inside the gate because i'm pretty sure it was one of them i just got a hunch i don't know just a hunch it's probably one of them mexicans i feel like if it ends with a z or a vowel fucking

column that's fucking amazing. Unbelievable. They took note of any reports of prowlers recently or anything like that. Yeah. She generally kept to herself. They found out Norma Davis besides hanging out with Alice, and she hadn't authorized any strangers to come to her home then either. All they knew is last she had been seen was shopping for getting a set of keys at the hardware store outside of the gated community. It's possible. They don't know if maybe did somebody see them there and follow her in and be like, these old ladies will be easy pickings or something like that.

But and either way, while they're at the crime scene, two people show up. This is Jerry and Russell Ambrust. OK. Jerry is a woman. Jerry is J.E-R-I. Got it. And Russell, they live nearby in Canyon Lake, and they drove up to see what happened because they saw all the police cars there and everything. Now, Jerry is Norma's former daughter-in-law.

Used to be married to her son. Used to be married to her son. Got it. So they're not married anymore, and Jerry still takes care of her sometimes. Jerry's the closest one to Norma. Really? She comes over. She takes care of her.

She does all of her shit. She helps her clean. What would you do if your mom called your ex-wife to come over to hang out? Would you be pissed? I don't give a fuck. Let them do whatever they want. As long as I don't have to do anything i don't give a shit but fuck do i care but if i don't have that fucking gene i'm like whatever do i have to do anything

great no perfect knock yourselves out but if the closest person to my mom is my ex-wife fuck that no i guess i don't give a shit to be honest with you i don't care no i'm just kidding i would i would uh yeah yeah i'd want to take care of my own mom, I would think. Yeah, I think that's what it is. Ma, call me. Don't fucking call her. People have weird relationships, though. You don't have any financial relationship ties to her anymore.

Maybe they both thought her son was a piece of shit. Maybe. Maybe they bonded over that. Maybe he's an asshole. He's an asshole. They're like, I know he's an asshole. I'm sorry about that. I did the best I could.

I did the best I could raising that boy. His daddy made him a bitch. His daddy hitting the bottle like he did. It was just, I'm sorry, okay? His daddy was no good either. He's a no good son of a bitch. So these people show up. They pull their Cadillac up to the curb over here.

The officers go to greet them. Who the fuck are these two here? As they greet them, as Jerry and Russell are getting out of the car, they look down at Jerry's sneakers and they go, Nikes. So they're like, that's something. Fascinating. Let's put that in my pocket for later. Let's have a chat. Let's do that here.

Yeah. So they wouldn't tell, the police wouldn't tell the Ambrose anything about the murder. No details. Because they were like, Nikes. They just said it was pretty bad in there. That's all they would say. They would come and, who found her? Was it a burglar?

All that sort of thing. And nobody, they wouldn't give them specific details because they wanted to see if maybe they could get some specific details out of her. So, yeah, it's her ex-daughter-in-law. But at some point here, Jerry kind of goes to the wayside and they start to believe that possibly she'd been the victim of a serial killer because, well, first because a psychic comes in and predicts that two weeks later there'll be another murder, but the police will solve the case. But she couldn't help them with any leads or anything like that. She just knows when it's going to happen again and that they will solve it, but I don't know how to help you solve it, basically, which sounds very interesting,

especially because two weeks later, two weeks later, I don't know who this psychic is or what she's up to. They better fucking find her again. Two weeks later, June Roberts, who is 66 years old, picture Blanche from the Golden Girls. She's going to be our Blanche Devereaux Golden Girl. She's younger. Afforded lady. Maybe. I don't know her personality, but we're going to go with Blanche just so you have a –

Sophia has been dead and killed and has almost had her head taken off. And now Blanche is here also. Blanche is 66 years old. Actually, it is her 66th birthday two weeks after this. Her 66th birthday, her friends all always call her and say happy birthday. And nobody – she never answers her – she didn't answer her phone that morning on her birthday which got everybody worried again yeah you pass a certain age you can't even not answer your phone before people come over to check on you how long would it have to be for me not returning your call before you would come check on me i don't know it's been

three months i've never come over you know what i mean like before you were like i gotta check on him oh my god would it be like not to show up at recording or something? It's probably there. It's probably like, I'd text you and be like, today at 2. And if I don't get a response back, maybe I should stop by. Maybe I should check. But that would be after days. Because it's 1.30.

And are we recording today or fucking not? What is going on, James? That would be after days. But this is like, she didn't answer the phone. We better go check on her. So she's only 66, which isn't very old. But she's only had 65 of these, you know what I mean? These birthdays.

And you kind of want to, that's your fucking day. You're going to answer that phone if you got a little bit of an ego. You'll be like, yep, tell me how great I am. It's my day. I'm amazing. Go ahead and sing my praises. Please do it. Right.

So her friends aren't, three of her friends go over to her house over there. It's February 28th. It's Monday evening. She doesn't answer her door. They find her golf cart outside with her house keys sitting on the golf cart. Not like her at all. They enter her home. Right away they see a problem.

They find her inside lying on her back. They can see the den from the front lying on her back on the floor in the den, like kind of beneath a large chair that was overturned. It looked like there'd been a struggle involving the chair. And she's dead. She's dead. It's over. Yeah. They get a little closer, and it becomes graphic, too.

She is strapped to the chair, tied to the chair and strangled with a telephone cord. Good Christ. Okay. Which is brutal. That's like some unprepared mob shit. Yeah. Like, we got to kill Vinny. We decided right now.

None of us brought anything. Right. Give me your gun. I got to go kill him. Yeah. I don't have my gun. I wouldn't plan on killing anybody. Grab the fucking cord then, you lazy son of a bitch.

I don't fucking know. There's a lot of cord there. Fucking pull it off and grab it. They're doing this. You lazy bastard. This whole fucking play. There's four fucking telephones. Grab the cord and strangle the life out of this fucking guy. What's wrong with you? How did you not bring your gun?

You understand we're into some shit and you don't have a gun with you? I have to plan everything with this fucking heist and this everything. We got to kill a guy. I think one guy. One fucking guy. Not even a wire, something I can strangle him with. No, you don't bring anything. You people are fucking.

Why are you blaming me for not having a gun? Where's your gun? Listen, I got you with me. You're supposed to have the fucking gun. Let me look in your pocket. What, did you get a Bic pen? What, are you going to stab him in the fucking head 45 times with this? Hope he dies?

That's not going to fucking work, you asshole. They'll let you have that on a plane. It's not even a fucking weapon. Jerk off. So they also find, I'm glad we can laugh in the middle of this. This is terrible. Please, this is fucking casino with your pen? Fuck out of here.

So, Jesus Christ, man. laugh in the middle of this. This is terrible. This is fucking casino with your pen? Fuck out of here. Jesus Christ, man. So they also find that she has been, June has been bludgeoned in the face with a nearby wine decanter, which is a big, heavy, what you would pour wine into. It's like a big, heavy crystal

crash. You let it breathe. It's for rich white people. It's for rich white people. And they're heavy they are so to bludgeon someone with this is no shit uh at this point so they're like what in the fuck is happening here uh this is crazy so these people that found her call the police they find police find uh they find all these bruises all over her body and uh they find her obvious head trauma she was the shit beat out of. She had the shit beat out of her. She got the shit beat out of her.

They assumed that she'd been killed by the blow to the head, but when they do the autopsy, they find out that she's also been strangled with a telephone cord, then beaten afterwards. What the fuck? So this is fucking crazy, man. Somebody hates their Nana. Someone hates Nana.

Yeah, this is what I mean. I don't know if all the minorities found out what my grandmother was saying about him and they came for revenge. Or people were tired of cashing $12 checks. Yeah. Fucking God damn it. Yeah. Their grandkids.

Send me $10 for my birthday, grandma. What am I supposed to buy with that? And I got to go to the fucking bank to get it. Thanks. You can't just wait for a ride. Fucking mail. If it gets lost, who gives a shit? I go to the fucking bank to get it? Thanks. Just send that in the fucking mail. If it gets lost, who gives a shit? I have to wait for a ride, huh? Thanks. My mom

wants me to just deposit it, which I don't want to do. I want it now. My god. Now, they look around. There are two telephone cords have been removed from the house, which right away, that's an issue. They find a

large diamond ring on her finger. Still, again, they find the heavy glass wine decanter that had been used to batter her and mess her up because it's covered in blood. And it didn't break. It didn't break. It's a big, thick crystal thing. No evidence of a break-in.

They were convinced that June knew her attacker, but they had no idea who the hell would kill this woman. She had no enemies just like Alice. She's an old lady who lives in a goddamn not that old, but whatever. She lives in a fucking gated community somewhere. She doesn't really have enemies that would do this to her. You know, like maybe if there was like

one of the old lady neighbors who fucking poisoned her dog or some shit, but they're not going to strangle and bludgeon her like this. This is ridiculous here. So those he bitch that doesn't like she planted petunias instead of some fucking rosebush. Oh, exactly. Yeah, that's what I mean. They have.

Holy shit. They have. This is huge news here. I'm sure Canyon Lake City Council has an emergency meeting to tell police to provide residents with information. And this is two murders in two weeks. Everybody's changing their locks. Old people are getting guns. Old people who don't know how to use guns don't get—it's not going to help you.

You're going to hurt yourself? Stop it. You're going to fire once and drop the gun. If you're 86 and you're not like someone who's used to weaponry, this is not the time learn sorry it's not if you're very strong you want to go to the range and trip practice it will fine but don't just get a gun and put it in your nightstand and think you're going to protect yourself with that feeble and frail higher security right yes they are someone's fucking taking that from you oh my god by the way security call your grandson. Call somebody in your family to sleep on your couch. Exactly. No shit.

Fuck, man. So they're saying get better locks. They have an extra police patrol added to the areas. This is all anybody's talking about. Old people love to gossip. There's usually nothing going on, and they still find a way to talk about it. This is actual news. This is all they're talking about.

And they had all day to do it. Yeah. So the police, they look at everything. Both women lived alone. Neither had signs of a struggle at all, anything like that. It appeared at this point, too, that neither had been significantly robbed. Neither were sexually assaulted in any way, shape, or form, which is good news. form, which is good news.

The only difference is that Davis, Norma had been that Sophia had been repeatedly stabbed and Blanche was beaten. But both of them seem like anger motivating. They both seem angry, I would say. And both were already fucking dead. That's the thing. It's overkill. It's not like

a killer would maybe, unless they had a weird signature that they did, would kill someone and then be like, OK, good, they're dead. Now I can rob them. Not like, now I'm going to fucking beat this old lady. I'm really going to kill them. It's just super weird. Like someone's got it in for old ladies is what they're looking at here.

The investigators, they don't know what to do. They don't know if someone broke into the homes in a better way. They just didn't show good signs of it, if they'd been allowed to enter. But it seemed like from the way these women lived and the way they were and the way everything was found that they probably allowed the people into the house because then they would, like, sit down. So it's like, you know, maybe they would, if someone broke in, they would force you to sit down while they did whatever,

but they probably wouldn't make you put your feet up and put an afghan on you. Right, not going to get you comfortable. Exactly. They do think that Roberts Blanche had died the day earlier. She had both head and neck injuries also, and they find that the telephone cord that was removed from the wall and found in another part of her home, that's what they thought strangled her to death. So everything is, that's the other thing too is they'll look at – did they – with

a killer is they look at did they bring their weapon or did they use what was available. That's another – and this is just all shit from the houses on both of them. These are knives from the houses. These are the decanter that was close by. Is the murder planned or is it just like now I just have to kill him or is it like, yeah, I'll figure it out when I get there. That's the thing, yeah. Or is it something that spur of the moment?

That's what's so perplexing. Because if it's a serial killer who's like a pro at this, they're probably going to bring whatever they need. They have kits. They have things. They have you know what you need. Fairly prepared. Just like anything else. Yeah, when I go to a comedy show and we do a live show, I have a bag that has everything I might need. It's got all my flash drives, my laptops, all any converters, chargers, adapters, anything

you could imagine. Eyedrops. You're all wired up. I got all this shit here because I know what you need. It's my business. It's my craft. So I know how to do it. This guy, if you want to kill all ladies, I feel like you'd have to be better at your

craft than just hoping there's an extra telephone cord lying around and maybe something heavy to beat them with. I mean, I guess everyone's got shit in their house to kill them with, but you want to bring your own thing. It's probably preferred. Just in case you walk into a house and you're just like, oh, this bitch just moved in. There's nothing here. There's nothing. Wow, she's a minimalist.

She's a real minimalist, this one. She really does not like clutter. Good for her. Give her a round of applause and I'll just leave. That's amazing here. So they have no suspects in either of these murders, but they are – something happens here in March, on March 10th, that makes them think that these murders are probably definitely linked to another incident here, which ends up getting us a mugshot – or not a mugshot, a composite drawing.

Right. And we'll talk about it. But March 10th, 1994. So Dor composite drawing, and we'll talk about it. But March 10, 1994. So Dorinda Hawkins, let's talk about her. She's 57 years old. She's not going to be part of the Golden Girls crew, this Dorinda Hawkins. She is working part-time in an antiques and framing shop called the Main Street Trading Post. It's in Lake Elsinore, California here.

Street Trading Post. It's in Lake Elsinore, California here. We're not going to give her a Golden Girl denotion because she's outside of the gates. Not only that, I think she's black and there's no black Golden Girls, unfortunately. You think? I think she's black. I can't find a picture of her, but Dorinda Hawkins just sounds. I don't know if it is. Either way, picture of, I don't know, Jack Hay or Roz from Night Court.

I'm feeling Roz. Yeah, Marsha Warfield. You picture. She was great, by the way. So I don't know. She's working at this place, though. She's working at an antique and framing shop, which is about the safest, boringest, most boring job you can fucking have. If you want to not get robbed or assaulted or murdered.

You do it. You work at an antiques and framing shop. That's a good place. Because no one's coming in, and the folks that do come in are probably elderly women for the most part. So they're probably not going to rob – Looking for their old shit back. Or assault you. Exactly.

Yeah. My grandson sold this at a yard sale. So it's early in the afternoon, and just like normal people, normal – like I said, I don't think you're getting groups of teenage kids coming in there tearing the place up. It's like a pizza joint. Going, where's your arcade games? Right. I don't think that's happening. A blonde woman in her mid-30s who's about 5'2 enters the shop.

That's who you think comes in. Exactly the normal customer thing here. She comes in just to look. They said, can I help you? And she said, I'm just here to look around. And Dorinda's not surprised by this because that's what everyone does. No one runs breathlessly into an antique shop with sweat coming down their face going, I need whatever. That never happens.

Have you got a German beer stein? I need it. I need an antique lamp now. It's never fucking happened. Stat. People come in. They look around. They go, I don't know, I'll pick that up. You don't rush there. It's not Home Depot.

People wander through there with no expression on their face because they don't want to give away whatever they think they're about to buy. They think they've got an original something that they're going to take over the antique roadshow and fucking make their millions. They don't run and go, my plumbing's leaking. I need this and that. That's not what happens. It's go, my plumbing's leaking. I need to fucking this and that. And that's not what happens. It's just, I don't know. I guess I'll get this thing here. Right.

They got to keep a poker face. I guess I'll get one of these candle snuffers because it's been really difficult lately. How lazy were fucking old aristocrats, by the way? It's just old people that fucking smoked their whole life and they have no lung capacity left anymore. No, that was just an aristocratic thing to have back in the day. You're so fucking lazy is beneath you. That's literally too much for you as a person to.

I won't enjoy that. I will not flex my diet violently. That's for the poor. Peasants with their breath. Never. Peasants with their breath. With their, whew, never. Right. So Dorinda watches her, you know, watches this woman look around. She said that you couldn't tell anyway, even if somebody was looking to rob the place, you couldn't really tell the difference between that and someone who's looking for antiques

because they both would walk around looking at shit the same way. It's just antique shops are, you kind of just both would walk around looking at shit the same way. Antique shops, you kind of just do a – you look at everything in the store. It's not like, oh, I'm here for this section. You're just like, I guess I'll look at whatever old shit they have over here. Oh, they have more old shit over there? More wood. More old shit.

More brass that needs to be polished. Wonderful. Terrific. So she's wandering around this woman and she is examining old frames and occasionally glancing over at Dorinda. So Dorinda was like she didn't understand what was going on. The woman asked Dorinda if she's alone in the store. And Dorinda is not like suspicious by this or anything. She's just wondering if maybe there's other people because what Dorinda does is she says, oh, no, I have more frames in the back. If you're looking at frames, the owner's been putting a bunch of frames together and restoring

some frames. So there's a whole bunch of stuff back here if you want to take a look at that. So the woman was like, OK, fine. So they go in the back. Dorinda shows her a few samples of these frames. We have this kind and this kind and whatever. So she's putting the frames back down on the floor. She turns around to put them back where they were.

As she's doing that, she feels something tighten around her throat, which is crazy. She's being strangled. She's like, what the fuck? Not expecting that at all. being strangled she's like what the fuck not not expecting that at all she turns around and it's this blonde woman strangling her with a yellow nylon rope in her hand like this is she didn't just pick up something that was lying there she brought a fucking nylon rope and is strangling this woman so dorinda is obviously freaked out she sees that the rope is knotted around her hand like she's serious this is just for real she's

doing this shit for real and she knew what she was doing uh she said that uh the the uh dorinda called her called the woman's eyes penetrating cold-blooded steel yeah which is pretty dramatic i would say and appropriate for someone who's strangling you i feel like you can use dramatic terms like that and kind of go overboard if someone is strangling you for no reason. You can use poetic little poetic license for your own shit here. So Dorinda is struggling to breathe obviously. She's pulling at the rope. As she's pulling at

the rope she's asking this woman why are you doing this? I don't fucking know you. Which if someone you don't know and don't expect to kill you if it was like a scruffy dude in his mid 30s with like a boner in his pants or something, she might not have been surprised. Like, oh, I was worried about this guy anyway.

But this is the last person you expect to come in and strangle you. Some blonde lady looking at fucking antique frames is the least likely strangled fucking suspect you could ask for. So anyway, the woman wouldn't answer her. She just kept squeezing harder. She pulled Dorinda down to her knees and strangled her harder and kept pulling and pulling. Dorinda is fighting for her life. She's fighting. She's kicking.

She's grabbing. She's doing everything she can to try to get pressure off the rope. This woman, though, kept strangling her. And she's, for some reason, super strong, even though she's small. And then Dorinda doesn't understand that. Dorinda makes a big move to get her off of her. It gives Dorinda some space. But the woman isn't thrown completely off of her. She stays on top of her and keeps the rope around her neck. So Dorinda is trying to crawl away from her, trying to do everything.

This woman has her full weight, literally like knee in her back trying to strangle her. It's crazy. So Dorinda starts to lose consciousness. She can't breathe. She can't talk. So she loses consciousness and then comes back a second later and keeps struggling again. Wow. So this Dorinda's a fighter.

Yeah. She's not going. Marsha Warfield will not be fucking taken easily. Tough, man. So just like I would think Marsha Warfield would be. Yeah, fuck yeah. So this woman, Dorinda keeps, she's crawling on the floor with this woman on her back strangling her. she's crawling on the floor with this woman on her back strangling her

she's literally with her nails clawing at the floor trying to find a weapon to hit this woman with and get her off her she's a fucking fighter so anyway she gets she gets her the rope loose for a second she tries to scream

so maybe people outside or people in the shops next door could hear her but the woman the blonde could hear her but the woman the blonde woman tells her to be quiet but she's not telling her like be quiet bitch like she's not doing one of those right she's telling her to be quiet in a soothing voice so calm soothing voice which is much creepier when someone's trying to strangle you'd much rather hear shut up bitch because then you know you're in a fight. Die, motherfucker. Yeah, if someone's like, shh, calm. You're just like, what the fuck?

Go to sleep. Go to sleep. You're like Joe Pesci in fucking Casino. Patting her on the head. A lot of Casino references this week. Yeah, I like it. So, yeah, so this has freaked her out. Dorinda said it was the way a doctor or nurse might talk to a patient.

Like, calm down, it's okay. Calm down. You're just going to die now the way a doctor or nurse might talk to a patient. Like, calm down. It's okay. Calm down. You're just going to die now. It's fine. It's going to be okay. Which is super fucking weird. Now, at this point, the woman says to her that she's not there to rob the store.

Because Dorinda's like, just take the money. Like, what the fuck are you strangling me for? I'm not here for that. It's an antique shop. How much money? We haven't sold anything in six months no one buys this shit do you understand fuck uh so the woman said yeah i'm not here to rob him i'm just here to but she doesn't say i don't want the money calm down which is scarier

scary as fuck you have no motivation uh so dorinda would beg to be released she said she has children she doesn't want to die. But this woman kept strangling her. The woman kept telling her to relax, telling her to relax. Eventually, Dorinda passes out finally. But she's not dead, obviously, because we had thoughts from her. We have thoughts from her. We wouldn't know what she was thinking otherwise.

She wakes up about 40 minutes later. She's unconscious for 40 minutes and she wakes up a ringing phone in the store wakes her up. Somebody's calling an antique shop for what I don't fucking know. She gets up. I put some shit on layaway two years ago. Is that

still there? And then she's like, I gotta call somebody else right now and hangs up on. Never mind you. Yes, we have candle snuffers. so uh antiques and shit call the police call the police antiques and shit that's the best antique shop ever i want to go to antiques and shit antiques and shit uh so she fucking survived this attack it doesn't seem like she was meant to survive this attack she goes to the hospital She's treated for head and neck injuries. They look for anything that might have been taken or any reason

for why this might have possibly happened. Found out that about $25 in petty cash was missing from near the cash register and the money from Dorinda's purse. Wow. Money from Dorinda's purse. That is salty.

She took her purse money but didn't steal the register money. Petty cash and the shit out of her purse, which is just an insult to injury here. They find the six-foot rope that was used to choke her on the scene as well. And so Dorinda gives a description of the attacker, and they are able to make a composite sketch now. So now they have a sketch. And now they're thinking, okay, is this tied to these old ladies? Because this is a strangling. And it would make sense that this woman would be able to. She's not like anybody who's suspicious if she's a little blonde woman.

It's very strange. Dorinda ends up saying, quote, I don't think that she was that much stronger than me, but she had done this before. She knew what she was doing. She came here to kill somebody. I have no doubt in my mind that she left me for dead. My word. So that's got to be a hell of a feeling there.

Well, you know what? Maybe that's why she was stabbing and bludgeoning people after she strangled them to make sure. Jesus Christ. Or if it's her, who the fuck knows? This makes the police really, really look at this. It's very unusual. The police, when they talk about it, they say how unusual it is for females to attack strangers.

That is excessively, exceedingly rare. That just does not fucking happen. It's very specific. Women don't attack strangers. Women attack people who've pissed them off. Or people who are standing in their way. Ex-boyfriends. Or ex-boyfriends or rivals for something they'll kill. A girl they think has taken their man.

Things like that. It's a deep-seated thing usually. Women kill for purpose. They don't kill for process and for feeling and for generally. I mean obviously some of them do. But it's not normal though for women to just kill women strangers. Even like Eileen Wuornos killed John's and she killed dudes because that's who she was mad at rather than – it's very weird. So anyway, they're thinking, though, it has to be a serial killer.

It has to be something. And that cements even more on March 16, 1994 because we'll talk about Dora Beebe. This is the Dorothy of the group. Okay. So now we've had Sophia, we've had Blanche, and now we have Dorothy, only because her name's Dora. Right. So we'll go with Dorothy.

It's easy to remember. Come on now. I'm trying to plan this shit out. Crazy thing is I have this all laid out like it's some sort of, like people have sent us pictures of. I'm like Charlie in Always Sunny with all the strings on the wall. This is how I do this shit. So, yeah, it's a little crazy here.

So, Dora Beebe, she's the Dorothy of the group here. March 16th is the anniversary of the death of her husband, Ernest. He died from cancer. He's been gone a few years. Very, very sad. And Dora gets sad on this day. She

loved Ernest, which is so nice. And this nice old couple, I feel bad for poor Dora. It's horrible, right? Now, their daughter, Julia, calls Dora every year on the anniversary of the death. Make sure her mom's okay to call her to comfort her. How you processing the

day, Ma? Exactly. How's it going? And maybe take her mind off of it or whatever. So Julia calls her mom, but gets no response. She doesn't answer, which her mom's expecting her call, and it's very, very strange. So Julie gets in her car and goes right over to the fucking

condo. Of course. Like you should. Like you should. Your mom doesn't answer the phone. She's over 70. Get your ass over there. Probably dead. Sorry, guys. Anytime your parents don't answer the phone, if they're over 70, they ass over there. Probably dead. Sorry, guys. Anytime your parents don't answer the phone, if they're over 70, they're probably dead. So just write them off at that point. Write them off. Start parsing out their shit. I guess that's the end. Start arguing with your siblings over what you're getting. That's it right there. And if she's not

dead, you at least at bare minimum get to know how your siblings are going to treat that situation. Yeah, you get to find out what they're all about. So she goes to this condo. Her mother moved there a year before, so it would be safer. She lived in a house before that. She moves to the condo because it's safer. She figures clustered in. More people.

More people and less maintenance for her to worry about because she's an old lady. She can't keep up with that shit anymore. Her daughter, Julia, says, quote, her one terror was becoming a victim of violence in her own home. Wow. That sucks, man. One terror. She has one.

One. That's her main fear, that someone's going to come into her house and do something terrible to her. The foresight on this woman. That's what I'm saying. So she apparently had missed an appointment with a male friend who was supposed to do some work on her house or something like that. She missed an appointment, which wasn't like her. And he had heard about all the murders of women in the area.

So he had talked to Dora earlier in the day. She had been fine. And now she's not showing up. So he's worried. So he comes over to check on the door, to check on door. And he gets there before Julia does. He finds the door unlocked, which is absolutely not like her. Not her thing.

She's the type, no matter what, she'd come inside and lock all the locks. I mean, there was no, she wasn't leaving the screen door open. One fear, James. Yeah, one fear. This is the one. So he ends up going over there. He walks in, looks around, can't find any. Everything looks normal until he gets to the bathroom.

And in the bathroom on the floor, he finds her covered in blood, kind of in a fetal position on her side, covered in blood and obviously battered. You could see you could see injuries, injuries to her head and not just cuts. Oh, Jesus. It's a bad – I've seen crime scene photos. It's not pretty here. She's laying in a fetal position like she was protecting herself. There's a gold carpet in the bathroom that's just covered in blood. Her scalp and – her scalp was bleeding, had just opened up.

Also, you can tell he looked around and it didn't take a detective to figure out what happened here. He sees her with a huge gash in her head and obviously had been beaten and looks over and finds a dented and blood-stained iron. Clothes iron. Oh my god. That was sitting nearby on the sink. No. A clothes iron.

On the sink. They just fucking set it. Sat it there. Just like the decanter. Same thing. Beaten. Sit down. No problem sink. No. A clothes iron. On the sink. They just fucking set it. Sat it there. Just like the decanter. Same thing. Beaten. Sit down. Sit down. No problem here. Wow. Detectives determined from blood patterns on the door and the wall that Dora had not just been hit a few months. She'd been hit several times

while in several different positions. Like she's trying to get away from the blows. Including when she was on the floor, just prone and helpless here. So it's fucking horrible. She appeared to have been dragged to the bathroom where she was, and that's where she had been beaten.

They think that she'd been injured before, dragged to the bathroom and beaten more. She'd received five separate blows from the iron and also beneath her, again, a telephone, which is very strange. She's holding on to it. Everybody's trying to call. Very weird. I don't understand what it is here. While the police are looking through this crime scene, they are told, the police at this crime scene are told, and there's detectives back at the police station that are made aware of each other's situations because while this is going on, they're interrogating a woman in the case of the two earlier murders and the Dorinda Hawkins attack.

Uh-oh. They're interviewing her. They picked her up that morning. Okay. They picked her up a couple hours before that. Yeah. So they're like, okay, this might be a thing here. This just happened.

This this person we just picked up might be fresh off of this. This is fucking crazy. So the suspect finding the suspect doesn't take long because there's a there's a sketch of her. Exact same description that Dorinda gives of a woman using stolen credit cards of the murdered women of Blanche and Blanche and Sophia. What a stupid move. Stupid move. OK, so earlier in the day, a police task force had been acting on a tip from these merchants here. They'd been following a woman and go to the bank and the drugstore and the supermarket. And they were watching her unload her shopping bags from the trunk of her car when these

detectives learned of Bibi's death. And they're like, OK, they're all separate cops here. They said, all right, maybe we should pick her up now just in case she might have just killed somebody. Let's grab her. So they do that. They pick her up, and it's a woman named Dana Sue Gray, and she fits the sketch that Dorinda Hawkins had made. Perfect. I mean perfect. It looks like in that weird style of animation where they take a frame of video and they draw it basically over it, and then that's how they do it. Like the Yaha video in the 80s. That's how they do it. Like the aha video in the eighties. Like that's how they did it.

You can just overlay it over her. That's what it looks like. Exactly. Like somebody sketched a photograph over it and it's her. I mean, it's fucking amazing. So good for Dorinda. Good for Dorinda.

Yeah. I mean these, they would have probably found her eventually just based on all the stolen other things. But Dorinda is giving evidence of, of, you know, and,

and she can identify this one too she can pick her out and say that's the one whereas if she was dead it would all be circumstantial or all you know based on the evidence so who the shit is dana sue gray yeah this person who's apparently uh being interrogated for old lady murder. Holy hell. She was born December 6th, 1957. This is, by the way, she's caught after bank clerks notified June Roberts'

relatives that her credit cards had been used after her death, and then they went and talked to the merchants, and then they got descriptions of Dana Sue Gray. One woman, one of the detectives talked with a woman who was Norma Davis's caretaker, the Jerry Ambrose. I don't know if anybody would remember her name.

Jerry with a J with the Nikes on. Right. The lady in the Cadillac from the first scene. Exactly. They said, do you know anybody who knows Norma that we could talk to about this. And the only person she could think of was Gray. The only person she could think of was Dana Sue Gray and gave them Dana Sue Gray's address to talk about it. She fit the physical description, Dana Sue Gray, obviously.

And she knew Norma Davis and she knew June Roberts personally. And would go over their houses sometimes. So this is... She's an asshole. This is getting interesting here. She is currently living with a man when she's arrested. She's living with a man who has a five-year-old son. It's not her son.

He has a five-year-old son. And they... This is crazy, man. This is fucked up. When they checked the different places where June Roberts' credit cards have been used, they learned about Dana Sue, a blonde woman, as they called it, who had a five-year-old boy with her. This lines up with she had the boy with her when she killed June Roberts. Wow.

She pulled up in front of the house, left the kid in the car, went and killed her quick, got back in the car. What the fuck? And then took him, what, to the mall? Like if merchants saw him. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's fucking insane. At this point, when she left there, she had attempted to have her hair dyed red.

It's in her mugshot. She's got red hair, which is weird. It's like a dark, like just freshly dyed dark red hair. The worst. So what they ended up doing, these cops, is staked out a mobile home where Gray resided after they got the address from her. They ended up getting the warrant and they called it in and they're like, hey, let's arrest her and whatever. So they got the authorization to do that. They take her in for questioning.

They also look at some of the shit in her apartment or in her trailer or whatever you want to put it here. They had her at this point just looking around just in what they took inventory of in her bedroom. They had her on forgery and possession of stolen property right there. In her home they found jewelry, food, liquor, a ski mask,

a purse with nearly $2,000 stuck in a washing machine and by the way she would kill people then she'd withdraw $2,000 from their bank account too. Yeah, right after she killed them in a washing machine. Also, they found many of the items of clothes that were purchased with multiple dead women's credit cards. That's not great.

She also possessed, Gray had June Roberts' bank book in her possession, and she withdrew $2,000 after the murder. And she also had a key to a Roberts mobile home, which is also not normal. In addition to that, they find a set of keys in Gray's home that match the keys that are the same keys taken from the antique store where Dorinda Hawkins worked. Uh-oh. And they learn that at the drive-thru window, Gray tried to withdraw $2,000 from Bebe's account about two hours after her first withdrawal, and the bank officials did not allow it. Good. Also, they find Bebe's credit cards in her lingerie drawer,

a closet full of brand-new clothes with the tag still attached, boxes of Nike Airs, a purple boogie board for some reason. Asshole. I'm going to kill old women and I'm going to steal some shit I need. I need some clothes. I need this. And a boogie board. A boogie board.

I'm also going to have a little fun. The Fiesta Day is coming up soon. You know what? Fiesta Day is coming after Dynamite Dave goes on. I got to get out on the lake and really get on to this shit here. A $1,000 Trek mountain bike and a bunch of unopened bottles of perfume that were brand new. It was crazy. How much do women love shopping?

Dude. This is crazy. This woman really loves shopping. I mean, we'll talk about it. She even. Wow. It's fucking crazy. She's just withdrawing money and then just stocking her

trailer with all kinds of shit. Wow. The detective said it looked like a department store in there. It was insane. So they handcuff her. They take her into the police cruiser. When they do, she's still wearing the diamond earrings she purchased with Robert's credit card. What an asshole. And on the way to the station,

apparently she had one subject in mind to talk about. Not, I didn't kill these women, or I don't know, anything pertinent to the situation. All she talked about was how excited she was about her new boogie board. Oh my God. So the cops want to fucking punch this lady. She's strangling old ladies, and they have to sit there and listen to her talk about how great it's going to be to boogie board.

Either of you guys got a boat to drag me with? Yeah, any of you guys can do that. So let's just say Rose is getting worried as far as the Golden Girls go. She was very scared. By the way, there's four Golden Girls. How many of them are still alive? Rose is still alive. Rose?

That's right, motherfuckers. alive rose that's right motherfuckers yeah that's right laid it out like a motherfucker so dana sue a little talk about her life a little bit here she had an interesting life what causes this basically and it makes it's one of those where you read her childhood and you go yeah okay that's i see where what her issue is uh she her parents were Beverly and Russell. Russell worked as a hairdresser and had three previous marriages before he married Beverly. Beverly is a former beauty queen.

She's very high maintenance. They had several miscarriages also before Dana was born. So Dana was quite prized at the time. Beverly is known as an aggressive, vain woman who would max out the family's credit cards and get second mortgages on the houses to go shopping to keep herself in very expensive get-ups and that sort of thing.

The husband here, Russell, finally, good Lord, finally divorced her when they were at a department store, and he turned a corner to find his wife grappling with an elderly woman over an item. He said, okay, that's enough. She's got some old lady in a fucking armbar on floor over a blouse and he's like i think i've had enough i'm gonna file for divorce i'm gonna go ahead and call us today thank you this is fucking nuts man wow what else i mean i want to talk to him so bad what else happened yeah because that's fucking amazing it's insane right this was when dana sue was two years old yeah and uh after this she rarely saw her father yeah and she started to act out to get attention because her mother's pretty vain and didn't really give attention to anybody but herself.

Unless you're holding something that's on sale. Then she'll fucking throw down with you. You'll be tapping in no time. Beverly would discipline her for doing things bad. Dana would retaliate by stealing money or that sort of thing. She'd also have fits of violence. She didn't get along with anybody in school. She did poorly in her classes.

She was suspended many, many times from school for forging notes to get out of class. She's a fucking liar and a manipulator from day one. And I get her home life situation causes it. But, I mean, bottom line is, you know, you can't do that. You can't do that. She just otherwise it's kind of a lower middle middle class household here nothing nothing crazy goes on she doesn't she's not heavily abused uh she never tortured animals she got along well with her father so all the things that would cause like women serial killers none of those happen for her here uh the most the things

that she had only person she had beef with and constant fights with is her mother. Her mother, who, it's funny, who's an extravagant spending person who bankrupted the father too. That's the other reason why he divorced her was they were bankrupt. In her defense here later on, her defense psychologists are thinking, is this a way that they can get some kind of insanity defense out of this whole thing? No, you can't do that. But you've got to try everything. You've got to try it.

We hear all of what happens to male serial killers when they're kids, and they go, yeah, that's fine, but you still can't kill a bunch of people. All you've got here is somebody that spends too much. That doesn't mean that you're – Absolutely. One of her stepbrothers said, quote, her mother would pretty much try to control her, but Dana would go off on you. You could not tell her what to do. Dana is very hyperactive and opinionated.

Then he says, Dana has a problem. She does not want to be told no. She has her own thing, and nobody could ever tell her any different. Yeah, she's a woman. Well, yeah, and especially this woman, I would say. Her mother was vain and didn't want to go to the doctor. There was a lump in her breast and still didn't want to go to the doctor, and she had cancer. What the fuck?

How do you not? I don't know. What, do you just be like, well, they're bigger now, so this is great. She delayed seeing the doctor, and she ended up dying of cancer when Dana was 14. So this was obviously— Was she Steve Jobs? Yeah. She ends up—she has a weird, weird, weird, weird thing with her mother.

All through her childhood, after her mother dies, she doesn't – it's said that she doesn't really mourn her appropriately. She just talks shit about her for the next 20 years. Wow. She just talks – she says what a horrible person her mother was. Her mother was selfish. Her mother was an asshole. Her mother was a bad mother. She says all this horrible shit.

But now once she's arrested, she's completely different, changed of tone completely. She writes a letter to her then boyfriend. That doesn't last long, by the way. He is not happy about all the media attention, and he breaks up with her pretty fucking quick, especially when he finds out you took my five-year-old on a murder run. I feel like that's going to get somebody to break up with you. That's a little more of a red flag than fighting with an elderly woman over something that's on sale. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah.

No shit. Jesus Christ, man. I'm out too. Oh. So she writes a letter saying, quote, this is to her boyfriend, quote, tomorrow, Good Friday, 4-1-94, is also April Fool's and also my real mom's 76th birthday. It's been 22 years since her death, and I still celebrate her birthday for her. I celebrate it for her because she died when I was 14, and we never got to get past the growing up years to become friends like my dad and I are.

She was wild but made my younger years a total adventure, camping, clamming at Pismo, best Halloween parties, and the best Christmases a poor family could ever have. She could make a fun time out of just about anything. Then she also – it's funny, though, but then she would never – she wouldn't tell the psychologist later on that she celebrated her mother's birthday. She would only say, I hated my mother. She was awful and she was a monster to me.

Meanwhile, she's baking a cake and blowing out candles for mom. To her boyfriend because she can get a little sympathy. It's my mom's birthday and all that sort of thing. But then when it's convenient in court to say that she was horrible to her, she's horrible to her. So she's a manipulator. She had an interesting life, man. She graduated. She was kicked out, by the way, of her father's house when she was 16 for smoking weed.

Her and her cousin both got booted out. She graduated from Newport Harbor High School in 1976, immediately moving in with her skydiving instructor boyfriend for the next couple of years. So, you know, he's a stable, stable guy. What's your job? I jump out of planes, I don't know, like 10 times a day. Is this to like protect the country? No, no country no no no

nope not at all just like a bunch of rich people pay me to strap them to me and then we jump out of planes together that's it and i feel their balls right rubbed up against me it's wonderful that's fantastic stupid fucking job what he did though is he helped her with paying and support helped her through nursing school okay this woman was a nurse, and we'll talk about that. That's interesting. The petals are going to keep coming off of this fucking rose, man. It's crazy. Layers of the onion here.

Now, like I said, she went to live with her father. She also became an expert skydiver by living with the skydiver. In 1981, she graduates from nursing school, and she has, after that, she dumps the skydiver. And she has an on-again, off-again relationship with a windsurfer named Chris Dodson. Oh, boy. Pick someone who does something on land, please. What the fuck is wrong with you? Pick someone that has just any sort of professional career.

Yeah. This is just dudes that fly by the seat of their pants. She likes a wild, unpredictable life. But with money also. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy had some money. She liked to go windsurfing and golfing. They took trips to Hawaii to windsurf and golf, which is amazing.

But that doesn't last forever. In October of 87, she marries a guy named Bill Gray. They get married at an upscale winery in Temecula. He was also really into outdoor sports and shit like that. He had admired her since high school. So he was like a dorky guy who now is cool, and he couldn't get the girl he wanted in high school. Now he's like, now I got her. I'm going to marry her in a winery.

It's going to be beautiful. And I'm going to invite all those assholes who said that I wasn't good enough to get her and she'd never go out with me because now she's going out with me. She's marrying me. I'm going to have sex with her tonight. I'm going to do dirty things to her. For the first time. For the first time.

Thinking about since the 10th grade, but now I'm finally going to get to do it. And you're not. Ha. People are like, dude, it's fine. She's been throwing it at anybody that has a weird career, bro. She's coming off a windsurfer. It's fine. Pretty easy to get that one.

Yeah. He was also in a band, but he was like a successful musician. Right. He wasn't just like playing bars on the weekends. Yeah. He was doing that sort of thing. She's a really good athlete great wind surfer all this type of thing golfer she's very fit at the time she's beautiful has blonde hair

um the whole deal uh but this marriage you'd think it would be match made in heaven right uh not so much uh they start to have some problems when dana starts to uh just bury them in debt yeah bury them just like her mother yeah doing the same thing uh she's buried deep in debt. Yeah. Bury them. Yeah. Just like her mother. Yeah. Doing the same thing. She's buried deep in debt. And at one point, there's a dispute over her aunt's will. She gets a settlement from her inheritance.

That's the word I was looking for. So at one point, she took all of her inheritance, which was $7,500, and went to Europe by herself without her husband and blew it all, even though they were in a shitload of debt that she put them in. $7,500? That's like, fuck, four days in Europe. Yes, I mean, it's not. She just went to Europe, pissed it away. What is she doing that for? Came home.

Yeah, just the hotel and the airfare over there. That's like $9,500. You got to Airbnb it over there to fucking – to even see a site at least one. Yeah. So anyway, and in 87, they settled in Canyon Lake. Okay. As we know, this is where Dana's father lived at that point. By the way, this is why she had her own key card later on, and that's how she got in to go kill these people.

Got it. Because she had her dad's key card, which was totally normal. got in to go kill these people. Got it. Dad's key card, which was totally normal. She had just an appetite for just she wanted money and things and clothes and jewelry. Stuff. Stuff. Her sister-in-law, Ginny Ward, described her passion for money as, quote, nuts, not even

normal greedy, crazy. Everything was sacrificed to the god of narcissism. Wow. She thought about that. That's not just like, hey, what do you think of Dana? Yeah, she's all right. I don't know. You don't come up with everything was sacrificed to the god of narcissism unless you've thought this shit through already.

She's had this conversation like 17 times. With all sorts of people. That's her sister-in-law. So she complained your sister right oh my god everything is sacrificed to the god of narcissism with that woman i swear to god that line evolved over the past eight conversations to everything sacrificed yeah it's sacrificed to the gods the sacrifice to the gods of shopping sacrifice to the gods of narcissism before that she just called her a narcissist. She put it all together nicely.

Nicely. Wow. Unbelievable. Macy's, the patron saint of fucking Memorial Day sales. All the way down to narcissism. St. Nordstrom, the patron saint of...

St. Neiman and St. Marcus. Patron saint of Memorial Day sales. St. Nordstrom and St. Neiman and Saint Marcus. Patron saint of Memorial Day sales. Saint Nordstrom and Saint Neiman and Marcus. So, Jesus Christ, man. The whole thing, this caused a huge riff with her, by the way, the aunt's inheritance deal. Sure. Because she apparently wasn't, this woman't even give any her any money. She gave the money in her will to the stepbrothers, not her.

And so Dana bothered them until they finally hounded them till they finally signed a document saying it would be split three ways. Wow. That's how bad she was. Yeah, it's it's it's fucking crazy. how bad she was. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. Meanwhile, can you imagine you work your whole fucking life and you have, I don't know, $2,200 sitting around at the end of your life to bequeath to your family. And one of those little assholes takes it on their favorite vacation that they never could afford. Yeah, you piss it all away.

You saved it. Oh my God. You didn't buy that thing that you wanted. You never bought a new car. You drove a fucking 72 Chrysler till the day you died. You didn't buy cereal unless it was on sale. You're like, $4.99? I don't think so.

And it still was the bag. It wasn't even the box. You're still buying malt-a-meal. Right. And you die with a few grand, and this bitch goes to Amsterdam with it? It's a goddamn nightmare, isn't it? What an asshole. That's what I'm saying, man.

She flies to Europe and blows a dude named Locke. And it's fucking up. What'd you call him? Locke. Oh, I would have went with Lars, I think. More European name. Locke? Some dude in fucking Europe.

How is that European even? I don't know. I just took some ethnic name. Locke is an ethnic name? I don't know. Something that's not American, I mean. That's just not a name. You just picked some shit that's not a name.

That's awesome. I played basketball at my gym with a 7'2 black guy named Locke. That's where the name really came from. You don't think that was his birth name, probably. No, it's legit. Really? Yeah, because he's from, like, I don't know, Nigeria or some fucking something stand. You know, Europe.

All right. Whatever. I just took a non-American. France, Belgium, Nigeria, all those places. I went on a European tour. I went to Spain, Italy, Greece, and Nigeria. Clearly. I'm not a geography B winner.

No, no. You do know that Ohio is not in in the southwest and i'm proud of you for that but i also know that lock is not an american name no it's probably not i'll give you that so that's seven foot two black kid that i play basketball with is fucking 14 years old that's a big kid right i would say i'm i was blown away in front of him just hold this basketball and you get a scholarship you're gonna win if you're seven foot two you're gonna win you don't even have to know how to play they're like we'll teach him he's huge you may not even be on a winning team but believe me you're still gonna win you're winning at life so the weird part about gray is through all this is she has several like well-paying nursing jobs she's a nurse she works at hospitals she works at these places

but she spent insanely heavily she went on out drinking and would just spend tons on drinking after a while she had multiple loans from her father which is you think her father would go I've seen this movie before I'm not loaning you shit

but she had loans from her father a second mortgage on her house tons of credit debt, and she's spending $7,500 in Europe, which is ridiculous here. Yeah. What a dipshit. I would say so. So she returns from Europe and starts having an affair with a musician in her husband's band. Of course. Which is what you want to do.

That's very nicely done there. Keep it close. Wow. So this was the guy she's living with with the five-year-old son. She's going to Yoko Ono the band. Oh, yeah. That fucking band is screwed. So this is the guy she's living with when this all happens with the five-year-old son.

Lane is his name. He agrees to let her move into his house and says he'll take care of her. She moves out of the house. She has $11,000 somehow when she moves out. She spends it in a matter of a couple months, gets rid of that. They end up getting their house foreclosed on. Her husband's old house is foreclosed on. They have to file bankruptcy, and they get a divorce.

So she came in and destroyed this man's life just like her mother did. Turned it upside down. It's funny, too, because we always say and we always constantly talk about these serial killer guys. It's a cycle with their dad's an abusive asshole and then they're an abusive asshole. And it's the same fucking thing. Well, it goes both ways here. It's not gender specific here. It's the same fucking thing.

Well, it goes both ways here. It's not gender specific here. Sure. So the crazy part, too, they find out when they investigate her that three months before the murders started, she was fired from her job at the Inland Valley Regional Medical Center because, Jesus, she was unable to account for more than 21 doses of painkillers she claimed were lost or broken. 21 pills will get you fired. That'll get you fired. Wow. And I doubt that's her first infraction. That's one of those where there's always a couple pills short with Dana.

She breaks way more pills than everybody else. You know, they get lost and dropped on the floor a lot with her. She's just clumsy. So that makes a lot of sense, too, that if she was into painkillers, whether selling them or doing them, first of all, if she's doing them, she's going to need a way to get money to keep doing them. And if she's selling them, that's her income, so she's going to need to replace that income. So either way, not great for her to lose her job. That's losing both her incomes and her drug connection. Right.

Not great for her to lose her job. That's losing both her incomes and her drug connection. Right. Not good. And it's another dipshit move because your supply for your drug dealing, if that's what she's doing is selling them, comes from the job that you have. You're a fucking idiot. Yeah. That's what I mean.

You're going to supply your- It's not. You never get high on your own supply for that shit. Right. Exactly. You never use your own inventory to dip shit. You're literally at the hospital. They're going to notice that shit's going to go.

But I guess when you get in that mind, if you can get it and put it in your pocket and nobody says, hey, what are you doing? You're like, got away with it. That's one of those things. Got away with it. That's people get that shit all the time and they get busted three years later. How many times have we done a guy kill somebody? Ten years later they get him he thought he got away with it he forgot all about that shit he's like oh that but that was so long ago what are you talking about i've done other things since then it's way worse now i got shit cooking like the golden state golden state

killer there he said i got a roast in the oven when i came to get him they're like yeah we got that don't worry about it i'm making a bed post here, you guys. He was literally like, I'm cooking dinner. Can you come back later? They were like, no, we'll take you now. We've got to have a chat now, sir. It's been a while. This chat's overdue. It's been a while since we've needed to have this chat with you here.

If you put that roast in when we needed to have a chat with you, it would be long gone by now. That's amazing, man. So February 14th, 1994, that date sounds familiar. That is the date of Norma Davis, our Sophia, being found. She, that day, Dana sent word through her father because her ex-husband – or I'm sorry, through her ex-husband's parents, because he would not give her her phone number, his phone number or address. He kept it hidden from Dana. So she couldn't find him.

I don't want to talk to her anymore. Yeah. She said that she wanted to meet with him and to send word to him to meet her. He initially agreed, but then he never showed up. My man. And later that day, she murdered Norman Davis. Wow. So she was like, I'm going to try to squeeze some money out of him.

Yeah. Can't get anything out of him. I'll go do this instead. I need a shopping sp Davis. Wow. So she was like, I'm going to try to squeeze some money out of him. Can't get anything out of him. I'll go do this instead. I need a shopping spree. Yes. And Dana had lived with Norma on and off a couple of times in the past. It stayed there. It helped her out.

And Gray later finds out, by the way, that Dana had taken out, unbeknownst to him, had taken out an insurance policy on him. Whoa. So he's like, glad I didn't go to that meeting because that could have been trouble. The policy would have paid off the Canyon Lake house that was in foreclosure in the event of his death. Wow. So that's a way for her to get right out from under that.

This is fucking insane here. Apparently, two weeks before that, she got in a huge fight with her older stepbrother over returning some antique furniture he had asked her to store there. And then he wanted it back and she didn't want to give it back. She sent a series of abusive phone calls to him, leaving messages that said, quote, are you so pissed off that you could stroke out and die? I hope so. Leaving messages like that. My God.

It's like my vicious Facebook comments when I first started comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Jimmy Sicker of 2011. She's a shit open mic-er at this point. Yeah, she's trying to get some attention with some overly flamboyant fucking comments. Someone will notice

me. There was a comedy booker here that had a stroke and then two days later i wished another on him who was that oh yeah never mind forgot about that yeah until the next i hope the next one killed it it's so weird now we've come full circle and now he's philatel now and and and he's a fucking man for doing it too he. He really is. You know what? That's a stand-up guy, honestly. That's a stand-up guy. To admit you're fucking wrong about something is really difficult. Nobody knows what we're talking about. That's completely inside.

But someone who didn't think much of us has recently said that they admit that they were wrong, and to me that's a fucking... Not just that. They are proud and happy. An adult thing to do. Such an adult thing. Yeah, it's very adult, and good for you, dude. Hope everything works out for you if you're listening. Proud and happy for our success.

Yeah, well, hope you wish them back at you, brother. Appreciate you. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And now eat some heart-healthy shit. Yeah, please, don't die now. Now that we like you, we'd rather you don't die. So, that's amazing, man. So, anyway, as they're, like I said, as they take Dana Gray in, they're like, is it possible

that she just got back from killing this lady and we grabbed her? Like, that doesn't happen in detective work. Right away, she said that she was depressed and she's telling the cops a sob story about her life. This is after she talks about the boogie board for a half hour. It's an O'Neill brand. It's amazing. It's amazing. Wait till you see it. Oh, my God. You barely have to wax hour. It's an O'Neill brand. It's amazing. It's amazing. Wait till you see it. Oh, my God. You barely have to wax it.

It's rubber coated. It's so nice. Do you wax those? I have no idea. I don't think so. I don't know. Maybe. I don't even know what a boogie board is.

I come from nowhere near. I come from Poughkeepsie, New York. We're not fucking. There's no ocean sports. You ain't getting near the ocean anyway. No. We have the Hudson River. And when I was a kid, it was like, don't go near that.

It's toxic. Don't touch it. If the water gets on you, wipe it off fast. I mean, that's, you weren't boogie boarding it. And I'm so white trash, when we had a boogie board, we drug it behind our quad in the dirt. That sounds more fun, actually, honestly. My stepfather used to, it's not more fun because your asshole

stepfather drags you behind a quad on it with a rope that's too short and then the tires throw dirt at you. First of all, that's not something that a stepfather, no adult person in any authority position should be doing that at all. No. I didn't have a father, James. Wow. No, I mean nobody.

If someone's been tasked to watch you for five minutes and they met outside, they should still know better than to do that. That's some shit that your friend does when you're 16. We'll tie it to the back and you're like, good idea. There's nobody mature enough to understand how stupid that is. And they all giggle their balls off when you're getting pelted in the face with rocks. Acting like they don't hear you and shit. It's fun, right? It's like great outdoors.

Like, faster? He wants us to go faster. Same shit. Suck my wake, suck my rock. Same shit. Like, faster. He wants us to go faster. It's the same. Same shit. Suck my wake. Suck my rock. Same shit. Oh, my God.

Yeah. No shit. It seems as that or I'm going to fucking pass out and die from the exhaust fumes that are in my face. One of the two. One of the two. One of the two. Anyway.

So she's saying that she's depressed and had setbacks. They cautioned her about her rights and they're like, you know, you can have an attorney here or whatever. And she said, no, no, I'm good. I'm fine. They're like, you know, you can have an attorney here, whatever. And she said, no, no, I'm good. I'm fine. They're like, really? You should probably stop for a minute, because we're going to, they're like, she's like,

nope. No time. This Kohl's cash is going to expire. Let's chat. I got a lot of talking to do. So the detectives set up a videotape here. They want to video this whole thing. Kohl's cash has expired.

So Gray, she cried a lot over the course of this. She admitted that she knew June Roberts very well. She kept talking. After several hours, she finally implicated herself in the murder of June Roberts. But it doesn't say she killed her, but she admits to using her credit cards, which is very, very odd. It turns out – this is really weird. Roberts had often always used to pray for Gray. She'd tell her relatives that,

that she prays for that young Gray girl and her situation, bad marriage, and came up hard. She was a nice old lady who was interested in this, in Dana, and wanting her to, I don't know, have a better life. Get 40% off? Yeah, no shit.

Jesus Christ, man. This is so ridiculous. I would fucking say so, man. This is fucking crazy. So after she killed June, the Cadillac that she was driving was seen parked out in front of Bally's Wine Country Cafe in Temecula where she smoked some cigarettes and had lunch with the little five-year-old there. She charged crab cakes and shrimp scampi to Robert's credit card and packed some up to

go. That was a little much. The kid's not into scampi, so you know. Next stop, she had to have an eyebrow wax and a perm because she just was not liking the way she looked. Also, while we're here, let's cut the boy's hair too. Get him a little cut here. $164.76.

She charged to June Roberts' credit card there, signed it June Roberts, and told the stylist that she was on a shopping spree. Yay. She spent $511 on a black suede jacket and several pairs of cowboy boots. $161. It was the 90s, Jimmy, with the black suede jacket. Yeah, but the cowboy boots, I'm excited about. I'm just going to wear them together.

$161 on a pair of diamond drop earrings that she was wearing in the police car. All charged to her. Also, then she leaves there, heads home, swings by a drugstore, picks up some dog treats, a couple bottles of Smirnoff. Hey, you know what? It's on the fucking house here. Let's get the good stuff. What are we doing here? Pick up a bottle of Belvedere, honey.

What the fuck's going on here? She's running Smirnoff back home. But then again, she is going back to a trailer. She is white trash in the end. Smirnoff might be popular. She is white trash, so that might be what she likes. She might be just proud not to be drinking Fleischmann's. Yeah, I knew a guy got out of prison, didn't want to eat good hot dogs.

He liked the bar S ones because he was used to them. Right. They taste like they have wood chips in them. And he's like, yeah, that's the shit I'm used to. All right, then. She's like, listen, this isn't at least it's not pop off. Yeah. I didn't know my cousin knew the guy, but whatever.

So on the way to the checkout counter, too, she grabs a police toy police helicopter for the kid there. Let's get him some toys. Who gives a shit? It's not my money. Dick. The fuck do I care? She also said that she found Dora Beebe's bank book. She's told several different stories for how she found it and came across it. But she said she found it. Now, this at this point, the detectives are aware that she's been a murder victim, Dora Beebe, so they're very interested in that. I guess they didn't bring up Beebe at first. They said she kept raising the subject of Beebe during the interview.

Really? She kept bringing her up, and they're like, we didn't even mention this fucking lady. She said, after more questioning, she said, why did you spend this money and why did you do this? She said, quote, I got desperate to buy things. Shopping puts me at rest. I'm lost without it. Wow. She then admits she was in Bebe's house, even admits to seeing her dead in her house, but

said, I didn't fucking do it. Right. I just said, she's dead. Guess no one's going to need that bank book. Boogie board. Here I come. What the fuck, man? Why did you steal all this?

Have you ever ridden a boogie board? Wow. It's amazing. It's fucking amazing. What the fuck? This is crazy. My God. They show a picture of her to Dorinda Hawkins, who promptly identifies Gray as her attacker.

She said, Dorinda said, quote, when I saw her photo, I had cold chills run down my back. I knew it was her. I'm positive they got her. Thank God. She has to wonder if this lady coming back, because she didn't know why she was doing this. So she's like, she could, I mean, if it's like a robbery or whatever, you know why they're there.

She might just have it out for you. She might be like in the jerk. They picked her name out of a phone book and she's trying to protect the, he hates those frames. Try to shoot the frames. All I need is this frame. All I need is this frame, this snuffer and you dead. All I need is this snuffer, this frame, you dead and this lamp.

Oh my God. That's it. Now here's the fucked up part. It turns out that Norma Davis is related by marriage to Gray's mother, Beverly. Okay. Wow. Okay. Gray's mother, who was Norma Davis's daughter-in-law of one of her previous marriages, but Gray had been born after that, and her mother was married to another man.

So Gray didn't know her as like her whatever. What a weird fucking— That's bananas. That's so goddamn weird here. So anyway, with all this info and the special circumstances now, when you kill someone and take their money, it's now special circumstances. Murder during a robbery and the murders. The reporters are wondering whether they're going to seek the death penalty on this whole thing here. By the way, sidetrack, there's a cat involved. Dora Beebe has a seven-year-old gray tiger cat named Wheezy that they are looking for a home for.

The daughter is too allergic and can't keep the cat. So in the newspaper, there's a big thing saying, please, somebody keep this cat. The daughter says that she is, quote, hoping for a shut-in who needs a companion. Why? Why a shut-in? Just be a normal person. Just say a person. Just a person who likes cats.

Why does it have to be a shut-in? Is there some piece of shit that never leaves and would like a cat with a cute name? By the way, no follow-up story on the cat. Like, I did all this research, and then I spent three hours trying to find out what happened to this fucking cat to get some closure. Where's Wheezy? Nothing. Wow.

Somebody just start a coloring book like, Where's Waldo? Where's Wheezy? Just a bunch of striped fucking things in a picture, and you gotta find Wheezy. Find Wheezy.ped fucking things in a picture and you got to find Wheezy. Find Wheezy. One of her – a guy who she used to work with, who worked with her as an RN, who knew her through some real estate transaction also, said he couldn't imagine her as the person who assaulted these women. He said she was a very nice girl. That's all he would say.

Like, I don't understand this at all. He said she was a very nice girl. That's all he would say. Like, I don't understand this at all. He also offered her – he also had letters from her that showed about her whining about her situation because she was writing letters to anyone she could from jail telling her – telling them that she is pissed off about it here. She does not like it at all. She thinks she's going to be free soon because she has like magical crazy person thinking. She harassed. This is crazy.

She harassed her father to sell his condo to use the funds to get a better attorney for her. Wow. I need you to live in the street because you need to get an attorney for me to get out of some shit that I clearly did. That's how selfish she fucking is. Don't worry. When I get out, I'll get you all that money back. There's so many old people that can die. Absolutely.

A lot of her other people from work said that she often had a hard look to her, but they just said that they thought it was the stressful life of a surgical nurse. She's a surgical nurse. She's stressed out. People said she was a good neighbor, but when her life started to fall apart recently, after she's been fired, she'd become very withdrawn and kind of cranky. I don't know, like you do when you don't have pills anymore after you've been doing pills for a long time. Withdrawals and shit.

You know, cranky and withdrawn. It's like exactly there. Gray's boyfriend, he said, quote, people ask me to explain it and I can't. And then he broke up with her. He declined to visit her in jail and he was just pissed off about being pulled into the investigation. He didn't want any part of it. Well, like I said, never talk to anyone. This is what happens here.

He's very much like you. Stay out of it. This is exactly what you would do if your ex-wife killed old women. Done. Don't know her. Don't know her. Divorced. Divorced.

Never talk to her again. I don't know. Jesus Christ, man. Her older brother said it wasn't happy growing up and maybe that's what it was and he doesn't know, but he didn't think it was that bad. He said he was stunned over the accusation that she murdered elderly women. She was arraigned on March 21st, 1994. There was still no charge of murder for Norma Davis, and we'll talk about why. There was an investigation hoping to get DNA matches from Knives.

They did have a match from one of Gray's, Dana's Nike shoes to the footprint in Davis's house. Bingo. So they got her there. She said she hadn't been in the house for over two years. And then they're like, well, that fucking footprint's there. It looks pretty fresh. There's not two years worth of dust on the floor. So we think you're full of shit.

Probably this kind of evidence was there was that's obviously not DNA evidence, but it's enough to put some some doubt on you. Let's just say April 8th, 1994. By the way, we'll find out what happens with the Norma Davis charges, because that's pretty fucking funny that the prosecutors actually agree to this. But April 8th, 1994, she pleads innocent to all the charges. She tells a story that she found the credit cards in the bank books, and she just wanted to shop, and that's all there was to it.

The DA requests the death penalty, so he's going... They asked for it. They're going for the gas chamber here. Yeah, this is the third time in Riverside County where they requested the death penalty for a woman. And only four women altogether had been executed in California total ever. So it's not a lot.

And it wasn't even one of the Manson family either. No, no. They didn't get any of them. No, because they got federally. Yeah, they got commuted. and family either. No, no. They didn't get any of them. No, because they got federally.

Commuted. Yeah, they got commuted. So they said, though, with these cases, as callous as they were and as straight for profit as they were, they thought this deserved it here. Through her attorney, she would admit to using the credit cards and theft of money, but deny any part in the murders, which would just be such a coincidence. Wow. I rob all these people and someone else comes in, steals my thunder and kills them.

Fucking God damn it. There's a one-upper out there, I'll tell you. Yeah. They said she pretended to not understand why the coincidence of her happening upon this property of recently murdered women and only the recently murdered women, why that was such a stretch. She's like, I don't understand what you're talking about. That's not weird. That happens all the time. She said her crime was only to, quote, exploit her luck.

Her luck of finding other people's shit that she could then steal from. Her luck. What a phrase. Wow. She asked people from prison. She wrote letters to everybody asking for any assistance they could give her. Asked them to judge her with their hearts and not their minds, obviously, because that would fucking not their brains. Because that's going to be problems for her.

That's going to be issues. Yeah. Once you get your brain involved, she's pretty clearly fucking guilty. Another letter, she said that the police didn't care about her as a person. Oh, that's sad. They don't care about a murderer as a person she claims she had a lot of friends siding with her in this whole thing yeah who is that friends aren't fucking judges and lawyers and police investigators right uh more investigation they did they learned that gray was seen wandering around norma davis's

condo on the day of her murder by yard workers who identified her from a photo, saw her through the window. Wow. They didn't think that was enough evidence to charge her with. And God, I can't wait until we get to the resolution of the Norma Davis. So they got mental health experts to, her attorneys got mental health experts trying to say she was in a diminished, a state of diminished capacity due to the circumstances in her life. Again, not an excuse. Doesn't matter.

Yeah. She had gone, her bankruptcy, her debt was $216,418. That's manageable. That's manageable. You can put that back together, especially if there's a house involved in that. You can work that out. But still. That's not the end of the world.

It's enough to where she feels whatever. Oh, you don't feel like an uphill climb. I would say so. That's a lot of fucking money. It's going to be 20 years. She said she then had a miscarriage she said before that, but no one knows if that's true. She said it was her fourth miscarriage, which again

no one knows if it was true or if she's just using her mom's origin story like some sort of fucked up superhero villain who's like picking out weird. She said she'd been prescribed antidepressants because she's had suicidal thoughts, which is interesting. Who the fuck doesn't, honey? Exactly. Clerks saw her use the cards directly after each murder. Handwriting experts identified her signatures on various items, including one where she signed it, Dana Beebe. Oh, no.

Whoops. Fuck that one up. Not great. That's hilarious. Very interesting here. Maybe as much of a narcissist as she is didn't realize it was Dora. Yeah, well, maybe. That's what I mean.

She started the D and just kept going, probably. So they were saying that it's likely that jury members would be concerned about her getting out. So they think the death penalty might be something they can get. So at this point, with all this mountain of evidence against her, death penalty on the table, March 10, says fuck it i'm insane i did it but i'm insane so i'm good insanity i mean guilty but insane with a guilt with a with a boogie board as your motivation i might side with her either that or you're that much of an asshole You're either the craziest person or the biggest asshole. I'm going to go with asshole on this one. One of the two. What an insane thought, though.

I would say so. To kill somebody over a boogie board. Jesus Christ, man. Her lawyer said that the mental problems which she had suffered at the time of the murders were no longer an issue for her. But back then, that's what did it. At the time. She's good now, though. Psychiatrists at the time

had given her medication and all that, like we said, for depression. She felt that she dissociated during the crimes. She wasn't there. She was unable to remember the details. She was totally out of it. One psychologist,

she planned, she told one psychologist she planned to visit her father, and she said she planned to visit her father with the June Roberts murder, and she saw June raking some leaves as she drove by. So she said she stopped at June's house to borrow a book on vitamins. She's very concerned about her vitamin count. And she said she felt, quote, really annoyed because June gave her the wrong one. OK, so she then told another psychiatrist that she was infuriated with June's supposed remark that Gray didn't, quote, do enough in her failed marriage. Either way, she said this made her believe that they that roberts was

looking down on her and uh she said quote the arching of an eyebrow that is what happened all three so that she you don't tell her you don't make her feel like she's lower than you or she will just murder you and you better give me the arching of an eyebrow uh yeah uh she said uh it's a minimalist efficiency the the killings. Like I said, she had the five-year-old kid in the car for one of them. They said she followed June inside through the kitchen into the living room. And she said this. She describes how she killed her, which is fucking crazy.

She says, quote, I was right behind her. I choked her with the phone cord. She was holding on, trying to get the cord off. I pulled her down. She was on her back. I hit her in the head with a bottle. I lost it. I was right behind her. I choked her with the phone cord. She was holding on, trying to get the cord off. I pulled her down. She was on her back. I hit her in the head with a bottle. I lost it. I was so consumed.

I don't know the time span in there. It must have been very quick. She must have stopped moving, and I left. As I walked out, she had a little wallet thing, and I grabbed it. We proceeded to go shop up a storm. What the fuck? Wow. What a story uh yeah uh she was given an express psychologist asked her to like do you have any remorse for this and uh she didn't really understand the concept of it they said yeah

she was like i don't how do you say that she's like fonzie trying to yeah right she didn't quite get it here she She remained submerged in her own feelings, they said. She told them, I was real fragile. I was real fragile. It was about like an 87-year-old lady asleep with an afghan over her feet. Fragile like that. Fragile like a woman taking

a fucking decanter to the head. Something like that, yeah. So then she goes to the Main Street Trading Post. She talks about that with Dorinda, and she says that she deemed Dorinda Hawkins' greeting to her as a put-down. She said that Hawkins was trying to, quote, make her feel insignificant. She said she gave me a look saying, can I help you, with crossed arms. And to that, she said, quote, I felt sick in my stomach. I wanted to vomit.

I needed her to die. Wow. Because she said quote I felt sick in my stomach I wanted to vomit I needed her to die because she said can I help you how many times have you been into like any store where somebody's just clearly hates their life in their own job and gives you just like a shit customer I imagine if you strangled all of them hundreds the amount of shit

customer service in this country so many people would be dead I would be jacked because basically it would be like working out because every day i'd be strangling three adult people they'd be like man i'm feeling fucking strong man wow because their customer service sucked yeah jesus christ and it may not have even been that bad she's just exaggerating her head she's an arched eyebrow it's's like fucking crazy, man. So, yeah, this this they said that her murder of B.B. was less than a week after she visited her father in Canyon Lake, who's lived there for 20 years.

Her father has. Gray claims that B.B. This is amazing here. She says, wow. She said that she got lost in this air lost in this thing. Her father's lived there for 20 years. She's not going to get lost going to his house. She said she got lost and asked for directions at the house of Bebe, who's a total stranger. She claims that Bebe sighed irritably and said, quote, I don't have time for this, but also claims Bebe invited her inside and

offered to help. I don't have time for this, but come on andbe invited her inside and offered to help. I don't have time for this, but come on and I'll help you. So when she turned her back to fetch the mat book that she had there, she says, well, let's find out. Dana says, quote, so she turned her back on me, continuing to bitch. I choked her with the phone cord. I hit her in the head with an iron. That was it.

As I remember, it was not much of a fight. Wow. She then says she was still lost after the murder, so she didn't know where she was. But the paper trail says that minutes later, she was withdrawing $2,000 in cash from her bank account. So she found the bank pretty fast and then went out. She had a smoothie and supplements at a health food store, a briefcase, a bunch of gourmet groceries. And like I said, she signed several of the receipts, Dana Beebe. She explains all this, takes a deep breath and said, quote, I had this overwhelming need to shop. Wow.

So her desire to shop is like Ted Bundy's to rape. It's unbelievable. It's that strong. It's that fucking strong. Wow. Holy shit. So anyway, there's defense psychiatrists that come in to talk to her and to try to make a case for her. They said that she had feelings of nausea generated by every time she did this.

And it's basically trying to mitigate what she did here. It's a little different from the other side. The state's psychiatrist said, quote, a desire for money, a desire for power and domination and displaced family anger. Yeah, I would say that's right. It seems like she was an impulsive narcissist who went after what she wanted regardless of the expense to others. She sought power and comfort.

There were plenty of behaviors during and after the murders that indicate she'd been aware that her acts were illegal. I would fucking say so. Power and comfort and she found it in a boogie board. That's it. Power. Boogie boards. Power. Now, this gets worse.

Yeah. yeah there's also two unsolved murders of elderly females in San Diego in a Newport beach which they think she's responsible for during one of the shopping binges she chatted with a pedicurist

about those murders and said about the murders in Canyon Lake and said she wondered if they were connected to the two in San Diego and Newport why would they be connected it's an Diego and Newport. Why would they be connected? It's an hour and a half away. Why would they be connected? I don't know, because you fucking did it.

Right. So she was trying to like do it. So they're like, whoa, they're so weird. They're starting and it gets worse. It gets fucking worse here. So they could they might charge her with that someday. Who the hell knows? But the fact what she ends up getting is they're probably not going to charge her anything

extra because she's not going anywhere. We'll say that. Now, here's another thing here. They also – the one psychiatrist was intrigued that she'd been fired from a nursing job three months before that. He said, quote, I've done the research on nurses who kill. Serial killers choose healthcare professions to have access to vulnerable victims. My feeling is that she was in fact killing within her occupation.

Holy shit. We have no fucking idea how many old ladies this one has killed. It could be, and they don't want to open that Pandora's box of the nursing thing because they're like, holy shit, and lawsuits and it's going to be a mess. But if your parents or somebody in your family

died suspiciously in any of the places this lady worked, I'd fucking look into that shit. I really would because this is fucking terrible here. He said caregivers who work with the elderly or in hospitals tend to kill quietly for a very long time and accumulate many more victims than slashers or gangbangers who make the evening news. He says, quote, the motivation of a serial killer is to continue the killings. They need to kill. And he says that when she lost her job, she lost her supply of victims and had to improvise. Lost her money, her drugs, and her victims. She's got to make do, which I mean, she bebopped and scattered her way, put together a nice

little open mic on the side. She got a speaker and a mic stand and put it together, but not great here. How depraved am I that you say gangbangers and I'm like, you can die getting a gangbang? Oh, you mean like Crips and Bloods. I'm on board. Wow, must have been black guys. Huge cocks. Huge. Some dude named Locke.

She's housed for her own safety in the high security unit at the Riverside Jail. Her cell is next to serial killer William Cerf, who was convicted of murdering 12 prostitutes and cutting the right breast off of two of them. Jesus. Yeah, he's a crazy guy. She adapted to jail quickly.

She called it her county condo. She did bitch at the jailers to get her a high-maintenance lifestyle that she wanted. She insisted on a vegetarian diet. Of course she did. She demanded a visit from her chiropractor. Nope, sorry. You don't get any of that shit. You don't get quack science in here.

Nope, sorry. Only real medical shit. If something grows on you, we'll slice it off. Other than that, I don't know what the fuck to tell you. Chiropractor. Come on. My back, I need to get realigned. This thing you got me sleeping on.

It's a mattress that has like – Come on, man. It's such shit. I got to roll it up every time I move south. Jesus Christ. She complained she didn't have a mirror and she made a – she drew – or wrote a ton of letters to people asking for things that she needed in jail. She also drew very John Wayne Gacy-esque clown faces. You know, Gacy painted clowns.

She drew clown faces that looked like his paintings. The Pogo ones? Yeah, which is fucking really, really creepy. She did it with paints from M&M's and M&M candy coatings, cherry drink mix, blue eyeshadow, lipstick, and baby powder. Oh, my God. Makes paints, which sounds terrible. She refused the cheap shoes brought by her family on a visit and demanded the high-end

models to which she was accustomed. She will not take this shit. She wrote to an inmate at this point, an actual letter. She said, quote, I am a 36-year- old little girl with a broken heart lost in a system that's hell-bent to destroy her i'm vulnerable what no you're a predator you're a fucking predator old ladies in their houses september 9th 1998 four years later four years this bullshit's been going on with her and fucking psychiatrists and all this shit she finally pleads she finally pleads guilty.

Finally. Mountain of evidence against her. Threat of the death penalty that she's probably going to fucking get. And she can have some, also here, some leeway. She pleads to life. Let's see. You, ma'am. Fuck off.

Life without the possibility of parole. Fantastic. And waives all of her appellate rights. Wow. She says, I'm just going and sitting there forever. She'll take it. One condition for her on this. The state would not prosecute her for the murder of Norma Davis because it would make it uncomfortable with her family.

That's literally what she said. You know, at the barbecues, it's going to be really uncomfortable here. Wow. Every Memorial Day, we all go out shopping together, and then we go back and have a nice barbecue, potato salad. You know how it is. Right after all the big sales. So technically, it's her step-grandmother, Norma Davis. That's fucked up.

Beforehand by marriage and fucking whatever. But still, that's just so fucking amazing that she said it would make it weird. Unbelievable. Yeah. So the prosecutor said that they didn't even know if they were going to accept her plea or just say, fuck it, let's put her in the gas chamber. But they said she's never going to get out of prison with this plea and that the deciding factor is that she had no prior criminal record because she didn't get caught. And that a quick a quick closure spared the families the agony of listening to the details of the murders, which it took four years. So there's no quick closure there.

Yeah. And he was also aware that some of the family members questioned this decision and were willing to go the distance. After four years, you're like, yeah, just fucking prosecute her now. It's been four years. Anyway, her lawyer said that it was a roll of the dice to go to trial. And so, you know, this was what she deemed a more safe route for her. And he also says that her remorse is genuine, which no, it's not. I don't fucking think so here.

Yeah. So she's finally sentenced on October 19th, 1998. She says, quote, when she's finally sentenced, quote, my life and my career have been focused on healing. It has strayed so far from that goal. It was so out of character. I'm sorry. I know that these words will never be enough.

I will live with this for the rest of my life. And you will in prison. Yeah. Fuck off. Yes. Life without parole here. The judge said it's hard to find words that describe the atrocity of this case. The crimes were horrendous, callous and despicable.

That's a you may I may fuck off right there. Yeah. So she is currently, or at that point, incarcerated at the California Women's Prison. Where? In Chowchilla? Yeah. Who else is there? Sally McNeil.

No doubt. From Crime and Sports, I believe, Episode 7 or 8. Crime and Sports, Sally McNeil. Killed her husband. Yes. She killed her husband. She's a. Yes, she killed her husband. She's a weightlifter who killed her husband. She is also in Chowchilla.

You're a crime and sports person. That's nice there. I want to send this lady a bunch of pictures of me shopping. Like, with a thumbs up. Yeah, no shit. Eating a Cinnabon in the mall fucking food court. Having some Aunt Hattie's pretzels. No shit, man.

The prosecutor after the plea said, after she said her bullshit, he said, quote, I felt a lack of sincerity on her part. I would say so. Dorinda Hawkins will give her the final say in all this kind of thing. Dorinda Hawkins told reporters after this, quote, a medical doctor I went to said, God let you live to identify her. I'm sure that's why I survived it. Good for her.

There's some weird, weird Dana Sue items for sale. And I believe it's, I don't know, serial killer or something dot net. Some insane assholes who exploit people's weirdness and wanting to have personal items of serial killers. They have a Dana handprint that she drew. If you trace your hand, like a third grader. Yeah, like an outline of that. That's 15 bucks.

Oh, boy. A Dana postcard that she wrote in prison to somebody. She's a hack. She steals Gacy and then just fucking does hand outlines. And finally, a pair of her underwear from prison autographed by her with her inmate number on them. So you can buy a pair of her underwear if you want to have some weird thing with that. That's actually kind of cool. If you want to slow tug with that, I don't know.

That's all you. You can do that. That is Canyon Lake, California, one of the weirdest towns ever, and the murder of the Golden Girls. That is our show. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, I know something you can do. You can go to iTunes, give us five stars, tell us whatever you want. It is just

for business, so please, please help us out there. Or you can do what a lot of these fine people have done here and become a producer and go to patreon.com slash crimeinsports or over to PayPal using our email address, crime in sports at Gmail dot com to make a one time donation.

And if you want to get a hold of us, you can use that aforementioned email address or you can be a small town murder on Instagram at murder small on Twitter, small town pod on Facebook. Go to shut up and give me murder dot com. Yes. Where there's links to all that stuff, links to donate links to all the T-shirts and mugs to all that stuff. Links to donate. Links to all the t-shirts and mugs and all that stuff that we sell there. Links to everything there. Anything you

want to know about us. Upcoming tour stuff because in the fall we will be going back out again. It has happened. And it's going to be a doozy, boy. We're going to be all fucking over the place. It is going to kill me. And Jimmy. It's going to kill us fucking both. We're going to come everywhere. We're going to come all over the place. It's going to kill us fucking both. So come everywhere. We're going to come all over the place.

It's going to be disgusting. So please, please do all of that good stuff. And without further ado, Jimmy, the only thing left to do here is to talk about the finest group of people that I can think of on this earth. Jimmy, hit me with those producers. Firstly, this week, you guys, thank you so much for all you guys did on Twitter and social media between sharing the WGN interview. Thank you, guys. Thanks for all the wishes about my grandmother, too. I appreciate that. Thank you.

And James' support. Very much. And then on top of that, hammering away at Audioboom. We fucking, you guys did it. You guys got us paid part of our money, which is awesome. We got a little bit over half, and we're almost. We'll take it. Fuck yeah. Absolutely. We had written it off, so. And you guys, yeah, exactly. We got a little bit over half, and we're almost- We'll take it. Fuck yeah.

Absolutely. We had written it off, so. And you guys- Yeah, exactly. So thank you all for that. Laura Murr upped her donation. Oh, yeah. Thanks, Laura.

Laura's great. She's fantastic. She comes to our live shows. Our executive producers. Right, right, right. She fucking came to so many of them. She's very supportive. Thanks, Laura.

Our executive producers this week are Laura Murr, Chrissy Ann Costaldi, Samantha Rothwell, Alex Etcht, or Rothwell, Alex Etcht or Echt. ECHT has to be the hardest last name. That's a tough one. You need some vowels in there, buddy. You got to get an I at least somewhere. An A, I don't know. Meg Smith

up in Detroit and Jennifer Robinson. Thank you all so, so much. We appreciate you. We really appreciate it. Taffy Salon and Brow Bar. I'm not sure what it is, but I imagine it's where you get beautified. I would assume so. Jess Landgren down there in Australia, thank you very much. She sends a bunch of people a bunch of different things from Australia.

Her and Michelle Jolly do that. And Michelle sent us a nice package today, too. Thank you guys so much. James Hires, Jesse Hartman, Jake LaBeer, Anna Hata Malice. That's an interesting one. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stephen Mace, which is Doug Mace. I don't know why. Yeah, that's weird. It confuses us always. Every time it shows up, it says Stephen Mace, and I'm like, that's Doug. Why is he hiding?

That's my Doug. Anyway. Jude Kendall, Sarah Kalin, Alicia Dedricks, Ryan MacArthur, Tiffany Shute, Sarah Peterson, Kelsey Ruggiero up there in Boston, Under the Sea Fabrics. And Kelsey said that when we come to Boston, she's got you covered. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. For all kind of greenery. Thank you. Who else do we have here?

Sarah Peterson, Julia Edwards, Nick Laycock. It's fucking, every time I see it, I think he's fucking with me. Richard Basantes, Mackenzie Butler, Sarah Willis, Nicole Danzer, Nathan Nolte, Aaron Chasey or Chase or Chasey. Thank you. Whatever one it is. I'm sure I nailed it somewhere in there. Kami Renee, Matthew Burlington, Karen Lombiasi, Lisa Padgett, Haley Snyder, Brooke Humphrey, Shannon Russell, Lisa Padgett. I said that.

Victoria Smith, Wendy Starr Brown, David Hadnut. How do I do that every time? It's not right, right? Is it really Hadnut? It is, right? Probably. Deblo Shen. You never know what could happen to nuts.

Dan Moran. I think that's Tin Can Dan. I think that's who that is. Tin Can. I believe so. Carter Bruning. Karen Edgen. Drew Shockley.

Jessica Taylor. Lori Snyder. Patel Huang. Todd Crago. Sinfully Delightful Clean Eating. I'm not sure. I imagine they tell you how to clean eat and it's good food. It's sinfully delightful.

Probably. Well, then. Go give him a shot. Lee Taylor. Emily Rose. Krista Eiler or Eiler. C. Mill. I'm not.

I want that to be Meek Mill so bad. I hope his real name is C. Mill. Stephanie Slaza. That's hilarious. Cammie Yoakum. Megan Wurzasek. Wurzasek. Wurzasek. Yes.

Yes. Absolutely. Jordan Young. Cat Power. Cat Power. Still helping us out. We love you, Cat. You're the best.

You are the best. Dustin Coleman. Elizabeth Davis. Stephen Breen. Rhiannon Demings. Savannah Briand. Stephanie Menzies. That's a brutal last name, right?

You've been picked on a lot. That's a tough one. You don't want to know, man. That's a brutal last name, right? You've been picked on a lot. That's a tough one. You don't want to know, man. That's tough in school. Kate Myers, Marianne Hender, Brandy Ferry, or Ferry, Micaiah, yes, Micaiah Johansson. No, Johannes. God damn it. I was so close.

Micaiah Johansson. Thank you. Johannes. Fuck. Diana Libman. Bree Ryan up in Montana. Justin Seitz. Antonio Garcia.

Michael Moore. Rachel Conover. Harold Lawton. Yes. Harold Lawton. Greg Allison. Vanessa Motto. Shalima Alphys.

Shalima Alphys. Yes. Okay. Thank you. And then there's Hal Lawton also. Harold and Hal both. Oh, wow. Awesome. Thank you. Devin Gorman. Lisa. Yeah, the Lawtons are fucking taking care of us. office yes okay thank you and then there's hal lot and also harold and hal both oh uh devin gorman uh lisa yeah the lottons are fucking taking care of us is hal short for harold it might be i

don't know i have two names i'm going with both of them i'm gonna look that up while you're talking devin gorman lisa warren uh laura pate uh tim henley leanne uh leanne williams laura pate i Kate, Tim Henley, Leanne Williams, Laura Pate, I said that, Heather Shaw, Amy Lowe, Martha Klein. That's a fucking great name. Yeah. That sounds like a great woman that leaves you Werther's. She's a very sweet lady, that Martha with the hot ass. She's probably like 19 years old. She's like Werther's.

What the fuck are you talking about? What are you talking about? Patricia McCoskey, Jordan Beck. Hal is a nickname for her. Is it? All right. So he donated Patricia McCoskey, Jordan Bale. Hal is a nickname for Harold. Is it? All right. So he donated twice. Henry, Harry, or Harold.

You can use Hal for it. What are you doing, Harold? Pick a fucking name. What are you, running from the law, Harold? Jesus Christ. Jordan Bodell, Cole Whitlock, and then a home stretch. Matt Johnson, Diego Cisneros, Samuel Miller, Lindsey Rastan, Jordan with no last name, Jessica McEachern, McEachern, McEachern. Charlotte Karubaostan jordan with no last name jessica mitchie churn micky churn

mitchie churn i don't know charlotte caruba okay i ordered that last cedric wardell uh and then dan and chelsea yawns sent us a fucking sweet package oh yeah thank you dq cards oh thank you so much michelle jolly sent us an amazing package full of australian shit that's so cool it's fucking fantastic thank you so much and then shane rayaley sent me back a shirt of hers that she wore to the show in Nashville that she wanted me to sign. And fucking amazing, when I opened it, I said, James, this shirt smells funny, right? And he goes, yeah, yeah. It smells like chocolate and weed.

And then I start sifting through the box and I go, oh, James, by the way. I literally took that. I was like, chocolate and weed I smell together, which is funny. It's like a chocolate tie maybe or something, like a chocolate. You're not far off, James, because there's chocolate weed in here. There is literally weed chocolate in the package. I'm like, wow. All right, I'm good.

Way to go, Foggy. Smelled it off a T-shirt. Police dog. I was going to say, I'll smell it in your pocket for Christ's sake. Jesus Christ. Don't be holding out on James. He'll find it. No, I will find it.

So thank you guys so much for everything that you do for us. We can't tell you how much it means to us and we appreciate everything you do for us. Whether it's a tweet, whether it's listening, whether it's sending any sort of donation, you guys are the fucking best listeners on the planet. Thank you guys so much for being our friends. Honestly, really, thank you. We appreciate it more

than you know and your donations really keep this whole thing going. They keep it so we were just like, I guess Audioboom isn't going to pay us, and then we weren't homeless, too, because of you guys. It's fucking amazing. So thank you so, so much for every goddamn thing you do. And what if one of these people wanted to individually thank a guy like you? How could they do that?

At Wisman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, Twittergram, Twitter, Twittergram? Twittergram. Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat, all of them. I just appreciate everything you do. Twittergram chat. Yeah, Twittergram, Twittergram, Twittergram, Twitter, Instagram and Snapchat, all of them. I just appreciate everything. Twittergram chat. Yeah, Twittergram chat. So and I am at Jimmy P is funny. You can find me there or just copy and paste my last name from the show description.

Don't give yourself some sort of weird psychological problems from fucking up my last name. So just do that. Find me. Find us. Do that. Doesn't matter. Come back next week because we will. We'll be here.

And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.