Small Town Murder - #92 - The Couple That Kills Together... Blames Each Other in Williamson, Arizona

Episode Date: October 31, 2018

This week, in Williamson, Arizona, a couple kills, plots & gambles together, but that doesn't mean that they will stay together. When one of them, a career criminal, thinks he has a way to make more money than he could ever dream of... he fails miserably, and decides that a cold blooded murder is much easier. This one is twisted, ending up with quite an unexpected result!! Along the way, we find out that places exist, even when we've never heard of them, that it's always more suspicious when you murder while driving a van, and how the death row publishing is apparently booming!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Williamson, Arizona, a drive home from Las Vegas leaves one person dead and two others heading back to gamble some more.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again on another crazy wild adventure that we like to call small town murder. Thank you folks. We are having a great time. Thank you everybody. Thanks. First of all, before we get started, I have to say, if you're listening the day this comes out right now, San Francisco tonight. I don't know if there's any tickets left to that. There might very, very little. There might not be because i don't know if there's any now so when that when this actually comes out i really

don't have any idea but try you never know and if you have tickets man are we gonna have a blast at cobs comedy club i can't wait and even more this weekend saturday november the third right is stand up live in phoenix get your asses there do it that. That is why we're doing another Arizona episode. Well, an Arizona episode. Look at you. Hey, we're over here. Hey, come on down. Strategic motherfucker.

And plus, it's just crazy here. So we live in Arizona. It's a wild place. And we figured we would. There's no reason to be here. Yeah, we figured a murder from here is always fun. So what the hell? Let's do it.

Thank you, everybody, for your iTunes reviews this week. We really, really appreciate that. Your Apple podcast, whatever they are. If you haven't done it yet, please do it. Thank you, everybody, for your iTunes reviews this week. We really, really appreciate that. Your Apple Podcasts, whatever they are. If you haven't done it yet, please do that. It really helps us out a lot. On the business end, drives us up the charts, shows everybody that our listeners are engaged and willing to press a button

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Or you can get tickets all through there. It's all our calendar. Check out where we are. All right. May we suggest Phoenix this Saturday night at Stand Up Live. Come on out there. Do that. Or you can do something that makes you our best friend, wonderful producer. that or you can do something that makes you our best friend wonderful producer you can go to the link that takes you to patreon.com slash crime in sports and you can make a donation there or head

over to paypal use our email address which is crime and sports at gmail.com and you can make a one-time donation over there and god damn it are they appreciated We can't even tell you how much they are appreciated. They fully assisted in me getting a phone this week. Yes, yeah, Jimmy destroyed his phone on a go-kart like a 16-year-old. Oh, man, a trash can. It got pinned between my leg and the track and just filed it all down. That is awful. Well, tell you what, let's get everybody in the go-kart here and we will say the disclaimer.

We're all in a go-kart on the way to the liquor store about to rob it and you're an accomplice at this point. You are. So we'll tell you that right now. If you're in the car, you're on board,

you're going to have a good time. We'll just say that. This isn't, as people would think, a small town murder and it's comedy. Oh, no. We're comedians.

There's going to be jokes involved. We make fun of small towns. We make fun of bumbling police forces and idiot murderers and stupid defenses and things like that. But who do we not make fun of? The one thing we try to do is to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. And then we figure that makes it okay. There's got to be some law. There has to be something.

Otherwise, it's anarchy because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. So that's the way that is. So if you're on board with that, awesome. That's tremendous. Thank you. Welcome to the car. We will meet up at the liquor store. This is good stuff.

You can smoke in this car. You can. Do whatever you want. Open containers are fine. Whatever you got. It's a matter. Not the drive for everybody else. We're going to rob a liquor store. you want uh it's uh open containers are fine whatever you got uh it's it's we're not the drive for everybody else rob a liquor store yeah so i mean that's what we're doing on the way it doesn't really matter we got sought off shotguns in here really at this point but if you think

true crime and comedy never ever should go together under any circumstances then this probably isn't going to be the show for you you're probably not going to like it um and it's not gonna be any fun for either of us so thanks thanks for trying. Have a good one. See you later. Unsubscribe button is right there. So enjoy that. The rest of you. Oh, man, I know what you're thinking right now. And I'm right there with you. So shout it out from your cars, from your wherever the hell you are, on a treadmill, on one of those stair stepper thingies. Stairmaster? Yeah, cleaning your house, doing whatever you're doing. If you're in a conservative office, go into the bathroom, say it quietly, make sure no one's

in there because it's extra weird coming from a closed bathroom stall. But say, shut up and give me murder. Let's do it, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip, shall we? I'd love to. You ready to go? All right, let's do this. We're all packed up. We're ready to go. We don't have to go very far. No? We're going like two hours away, so it's not too bad for us. We're driving right up. We're ready to go. We don't have to go very far. No. We're going like two hours away.

So it's not too bad for us. We're driving right up the hill. Not too bad. We're going to Williamson, Arizona. I've heard of Williams. Yes. When I said it originally, you made a face like that's not a place. It doesn't make sense.

It is. Now, Williams is a different, Williams is a more well-known place in Arizona. Yeah, it's where people go kind of before the Grand Canyon. You'll see Bear-a-zona. Yeah, it's nice up there. It's up in the mountains and it's pretty this is williamson this is different okay it's a different place completely uh it is in the central part of the state kind of northwest part of the state it's by prescott it's right up there it's 20 minutes northwest of prescott up and all over that place it in the goddamn woods. You'd miss it if it's half in the woods.

We'll get to it. It's about an hour 50 from Phoenix. About three hours and 45 minutes to Vegas which is important for the story to know that. And like I said about 20 minutes to Prescott, Arizona which is kind of fascinating. Yeah Prescott's kind of like this it's kind of a cool like old timey

town in the middle of the mountains up there. Prescott used to be the capital of Arizona. Yeah, back when they realized it snowed. And they were like, this is ridiculous. Why do we stay here? Why are we doing this? Right down the hill, it doesn't snow. This is silly.

And they got Whiskey Row, where all the cowboys used to drink. Like Wyatt Urban, Joe Holiday. All those people drank there. Yeah, it's kind of the... And it's all at the center of... Very cowboy-ish. Yeah, there's a bunch of cowboy shit up there. They really run that cowboy shit right up your ass.

Yeah, they run the, this is an old West town, but it's also, hey, family friendly. Look at the Christmas lights. It's weird. Super weird fine line. Come up and get shit-faced and slosh around the sidewalks, throwing up just like Wyatt Earp, and bring the kids. And then run over to our boutique where we sell really fancy soaps. And chocolates and candies and cupcakes. And they still got a TCBY.

I think they still got it. I'm sure they do. It's in Yavapai County over there. Zip code 86305. Area code 928. Up in that area. It is 57 square miles, this area. Williamson is?

That's what I mean, Williamson. It's 57 square miles, technically, of mostly nothing. There's nothing there. It's just the middle of nowhere with some stuff mixed in. It's not a lot. Motto is, we swear we're a town. We exist, damn it, which is a very aggressive motto, but needed, as we can see from a man who's lived here.

How long have you lived here? 30 years. 30 years. And have driven all over northern Arizona. That's like your jam. You love to go. That's my shit, yeah. And you've never? 30 years. 30 years. And have driven all over northern Arizona. That's like your jam. You love to go. That's my shit, yeah. And you've never even heard of the shocking place.

That's why that's the motto right there. We swear we're a town. We exist, you bastards. Now, Rand McNally put us on one. There's got to be a map that we exist. It's actually the wrong name of the town, too. It's Williamson, but they actually's it's a mess up in federal it's and the the technically the murder doesn't take place in right in this town but it is the closest town to the middle of nowhere where this happened this is great already so it's yeah

it's literally i was like well where the fuck i had a map out and i found out the road and i'm like okay and it says it's 25 miles north. Literally, I'm doing all these different configurations, and I'm like, well, the closest town here is Williamson. Otherwise, there's nothing out there. That's so weird. It was either Williamson or we go to the other side of the forest to Baghdad. And I'm like, that's the desert over there. So we're going to stay over here because I know this is the forest is where this happens. I didn't realize Baghdad was up there.

Baghdad's over by Kingman. It's like if you go over to the west, nobody cares about this. Right, but I was thinking, for some reason in my head, I had it down in the southeast corner near Globe and Miami. No, no, no. And Baghdad also is by nothing Arizona for you non-Arizona residents, which is another town

whose motto is also, I swear we exist, even though there's nothing there. Is that for real? Nothing Arizona? There's nothing Baghdad, and then nothing is over to the southeast. Trust me, I've studied the central Arizona map. Horrible. Crazy today. History of this area.

There's been human habitation in the area here since at least 900 A.D. I'm going to probably say beforehand. That's just all they can prove. First settlers here were surprisingly Native Americans, obviously. They weren't people that live in surprise that all have nice gravel yards. I don't think it wasn't there. They migrated here to hunt deer and smaller game. It was good hunting grounds.

Yeah. So this is a good place to be. It's the south river of the Grand Canyon. There's all kinds of wild shit up there. That's what it is. Yeah, there's a ton of shit. It's the forest. I mean, there's bears and-

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's crazy. that's what yeah there's a ton of shit it's the forest i mean there's bears and it's beautiful yeah it's crazy uh it also was a passageway for the early settlers to go to and from uh to the pine forest down south of here and also all through like the gold rush this was kind of an area where people came from the south okay uh to go to california they come this way and go then head north uh for some reason i guess that keeps you out of the Rocky Mountains it also makes you the fuck out of like Death Valley that's it yeah so they come through here and then I think they go up and and then follow the mountains on the west side of I don't know how the fuck it's a little nicer that way but they said there's a lot of northern Arizona

and Arizona in general had a lot of southern settlers because that's where people would stop if they were going to California and they were like all right it's far enough this will do i don't know it's just i heard there was sand and this is all the same so uh there's a lot of uh people with southern kind of roots here based on that which i didn't know so that's why that's interesting yeah it's like the west virginia of the southwest or the oklahoma of the further southwest more accurately uh the people from dodge city a lot of those people went to prescott that was a very common yeah but it was the capital then so that's it made sense yeah that's where that's where they keep the records yeah so uh they'd steal them i'm sure as we always have in

one of these goddamn towns there's always a record thieving one one county seats mad at another for jesus fighting over land deeds that's what they're fighting over uh also they did archaeological studies they said native american tribes uh it was kind of a seasonal thing up there they would have a season it a lot of seasonal habitation they'd be up there in the summer and they would store their meat up there in the winter they'd store shit up there snowbirds yeah that's yeah they had indian elderly i'm sure. Unbelievable. Just the elderly ones, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The older Indians would head up there.

I'm heading up for the summer. It's getting hot down here. So they were, but they would store meat up there and shit, too, because it was cold. And down here, I guess the meat would go bad. So they'd have to send people up to make meat runs up north. That makes sense. Absolutely. So, yeah.

The power goes out and you got to get an all-new fridge stocked full of food here yeah you're totally fucked not even hot and it's just everything's dead that happened to me a year and a half ago it was not cool at all the worst power surge dead fridge all my food's dead we just went grocery shopping oh no it was horrible we had our shit in coolers but then we couldn't get a fix for two days so we thought the worst we're cooking all sorts of shit trying to make it hurry start looking get go warm up the oven so uh yeah discovery of gold in the 1850s 40s and 50s brought uh all sorts of people into the area because there was some gold there too okay in addition to there being copper up in northern arizona and everything like that.

So people came here. People that were less ambitious would come here. It's easier to get to in California. And, you know, it's kind of the post. Fewer people? Yeah. Plus, it was kind of like the stock market was ready to burst already. They already had the big gold rush.

And it was like, well, there's a couple of things we could buy up on the fringes. It's fine. You know, that's where they thought it was. Also, fewer people means better odds of of your strike that's the other thing uh shockingly the native americans in the area considered this an invasion on their hunting grounds a bunch of you assholes on here panning for shit and telling us to go away strange that they would feel that way um but uh in the 1860s there was a fighting between the uh the native americans and the and the settlers in the area so uh you know over that basically over people wanting to mine picture picture a native american do you see a beard on that man how the fuck did they shave

like i am fascinated with that right now well they had razor sharp fucking weaponry and shit. I mean, how would they... They're shaven with a fucking hatchet? Yeah. Yeah. That's intense. You could shave it down. Yeah, you could really get it down. Plus, I think they had medals, too.

I don't know what they had. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm really dumb. Year also, we're talking about what area, too. And what did we bring to them, too? And what did we bring? I mean, people from different areas. And people have been shaving and cutting hair, though, since the beginning of fucking time.

You sharpen shit and you figure it out. I've never seen a Native American guy with a beard in any pictures. You know what I mean? No. No. I guess not. That's really fucking fascinating right now. I'm sure there were some people that are going to be like, you guys are idiots.

There's a myth. We know. We're saying, what Jimmy's, the limited amount of pictures he's seen in eighth grade textbooks did not have beards in them i see that there i understand that's post like a gilded age there's metal around yeah but did we did the gillette people stop by a camp and i don't think so disperse these i think they had it yeah i think they had it down already i feel like i'm just i feel like they'd figure out shaving in the right away that's something i feel like they'd figure out shaving right away. That's something I feel like immediately.

As soon as guys started figuring out, as soon as the first divorced guy happened, they figured out shaving. Where he's like, I got to get myself out there. Fuck, I look like shit. I need a makeover. He figured out shaving and went out there looking slick and got himself some ass. That's what happened. So I don't know when that occurred, the first divorce in human history. Got to get this lice off my face whenever that happened that's when when and some girl went oh i didn't haven't looked at you

the same way went to the office looking different that's your chin oh man look at you holy shit you don't have any bugs or birds living in there or anything this is sexy so uh the civil war began obviously in the 1860s and the the federal government established Arizona as a territory, and troops were stationed there to protect the gold mines and the settlers from both Confederate bands and hostile tribes as well. Interesting. So that's why they made it a territory, was to protect the gold here. Fascinating. There's gold there.

That's ours now. Yeah. Let's stay out. We need that. Yeah, they felt like they could then uh feel justified in sending troops there apparently uh but they they they also the all the army and then people here created a demand for quote beef and hay we need beef and hay to see people just marching in the streets looking for beef and hay and that's when people in this area started

bringing in livestock and all that kind of shit. And that's up there now. It's a lot of livestock everywhere. It's northern Arizona. It's so weird. It's beautiful. My God.

Amazing. We're talking about Sedona. People come from all over the world to look at Sedona. It's amazing. And you'd look and go, wow, it's beautiful. And the houses are nice. And, you know, Flagstaff has its own thing to it. And Jerome, there's a couple of these tourist towns up there that are fine.

You're talking about like Winslow? Shit is weird. It's fucking weird. They have a statue of that dude that wrote that song, that's standing on a corner of Winslow. You get what I mean. I mean, that was the Eagles, but it was Jackson Brown? I don't remember.

Not Glenn Frey, the other one. Don Henley. Don Henley, thank you. I think it's a statue of Jackson Browne standing there. The fuck they have Jackson Browne standing there? It has something to do with that fucking guy. I don't know. I don't know the story. I don't like the Eagles. It's

fucking garbage. Either way though, they have a statue of the one guy who's ever mentioned them in pop culture. He mentioned us. Build a statue. Imagine if anytime anybody added us on Twitter, we built a statue of them. They mentioned us. Build a statue. Imagine if anytime anybody added us on Twitter, we built a statue of them. They mentioned us. Statue.

Thank you for your article. We have built a statue. Every time we're on like, you know, top 25, true crime, whatever the fuck, we built a statue to that writer. Thank you. We're very excited. We have a split cider statue in here. That's a beautiful monument to BuzzFeed. It's fantastic.

It's gorgeous. Ridiculous. Who doesn't want that? So, yeah, there's all sorts of hostilities between these people, obviously. This is the Williamson Valley is what they call it. It provided a lot of really good place for cattle, apparently. A cattleman

named Stevens brought livestock into the Williamson Valley. That poor bastard. He had to bring it all the way over there. And they name it Williamson. They name it. Well, his family's piss. It was named after Lieutenant Robert Stockton Williamson, who served as a government surveyor in Arizona in 1854.

Since the valley was a natural, natural basically it's a natural passage down to the Prescott area from up north is the way it works because that's a little valley outside of the forest and makes it a little more easily accessible yeah exactly so a guy named Thomas Simmons who was a civilian had

a stage station in the 1860s and he provided meals and horses and all sorts of shit and man the post office he was also the post office and then he just he designated the station uh wilson after the commissioner of the land and then somebody else changed in 1873 to williamson valley and then in 1881 they changed the name again to simmons uh that guy, after the postmaster guy. He changed it away from something to something else. And then they were like, fuck that.

We're giving it to you. You take it, sir. It's ridiculous. Until then, that station closed in the 1830s and they went back to Williamson. It was the Williamson Valley Road up there is known as was the Simmons Highway. The Williamson Valley Road up there is known as was the Simmons Highway. And a lot of public, like a lot of maps still printed as the Simmons Highway on maps for some reason. Now, some shit up there. Back in the turn of the century, what was life like in northern Arizona?

You might wonder. They all had gardens and canned what they grew in order to survive the winter, which sounds fucking horrible because it's cold up there in the winter. Don't get that shit wrong. Don't get it twisted arizona's warm it's fucking freezing up there in the winter this town's like 5 000 feet elevation it's a mile high town so it's it's it's cold man it's happy jack which is real close to there which is a dumb fucking area too but yeah i've been there in a camper and we had freshwater tank underneath and overnight the whole tank was fucking frozen. It's so cold. Woke up in the morning, you can't even make coffee. Nothing.

It's so cold there. It gets super fucking cold. The primary sources of income back in the day were the sale of cattle, hay and horses, both ranch horses and bucking horses for rodeos. They're producing rodeo horses up there, apparently. Meat-cutting, carpentry, blacksmithing, and the sale of dairy products. I feel like that's what every small town was. That's not a big deal. It says social life.

Now, this is exciting, Jimmy. I know I'm not a social guy, but I think I might have been a little more back then. Because back then, social life revolved around neighbors helping neighbors with cattle roundups and putting up hay. Nope. Those are yours. Which sounds fucking terrible. Yeah, your cattle are wandering away. That is your problem at that point.

Those are your cattle, your fucking problem. That's not being neighborly. That's an asshole thing. Come over here and help me do work. Help me work on my shit. Also, the distance, they were like two or three, more five miles between ranches not acres so not acres miles so people really didn't hang out very much because there wasn't they're so goddamn far away fucking exhausting to get to you yeah they like to uh they like to uh you know have like rodeos and

hoedowns and shit up there and you know have square dances i guess i don't know the dances but i'm sure it's square dancing some it's square i'll tell you that much right now i don't know if it's officially uh oh yeah yeah as fuck uh the uh they said next to rodeo the most popular recreation for men and boys was hunting which is sort of not a recreation if that's your food source that's just survival at that point not really having fun i'd be like my what do you do for recreation i go to the grocery store wander around look at meat no that's what you do to survive to do your recreation is general thriving yeah that's how you that's how you get to what's what are we gonna do for fun today we're gonna try and make it to tomorrow that's that's our. Cougar hunting was a lot of fun for them.

So fun. We're trying to make it to tomorrow if we're not mauled by cougars while we're trying to hunt them. They would kill cattle and deer and shit, so people would hunt them. Kids would round them up for a bounty. You'd bring in five cougars and you'd get a bounty. Like on Deadwood when you'd bring in a Native American head and they would give you money for that. I think it was $50 a head. Really?

I think Al would give you one, and then he'd put it up in the bar. That was a real thing, too, at the Gem Saloon in Deadwood. They would put... Buying decorations? Yeah, they would use a rotting skull as a decoration. They'd just put it up on a shelf in the bar. Keep the flies off your steak. Yeah, I would say.

That's a good point, though. It does draw the flies. Now, they said crime rate was actually pretty low back then. Cattle rustling was considered one of the most serious offenses. Of course. Goddamn cattle rustlers, man. Oh, my God. As we've heard from back then, the worst thing you could be is a cattle rustler.

Why don't you just rape my wife? Jesus. Good God. Jesus. You got to steal my cattle? And horses, too, if you stole a horse. But now it's like they don't kill you if you steal a car. It doesn't make sense.

You get way further in a car than on a horse. That's what I mean. And it's way more expensive, the whole thing. It's just better. It's just better. Horses have no air conditioning, and they shit all over the place. So Yavapai County was one of the four original arizona counties created by the first territorial legislature um it uh it was also uh apache

coconino maricopa and navajo were carved out of the original yavapai so all this shit around here was originally yavapai county there's only like 13 in this state yeah there's not a lot of people there's no people here outside of phoenix sorry everybody i know there's a few in tucson but you live in tucson big ass we apologize for you yeah and for and everyone is crammed into this fucking city what is there five and a half million people in the state seven million people in the state and five in the state yeah and the rest of it's a 4.8 it's a giant state too so there's only two million people dispersed throughout it other than us. And a lot of them are in Tucson.

So, I mean, they're dead and buried pretty much. They're already in Tucson. There's like 1.2 in Tucson and then like 400,000 Flagstaff. That's it. And then the rest of the 48 people are somewhere else. Somewhere over in the mountains. They're in Williamson. Williamson, speaking of dead and buried, is the number 89 best place to retire in Arizona,

according to this website. Number what? 89. Not a lot of places in Arizona. It's 89. I couldn't think of 89 other places. 88 places. There's like eight places.

I can think of like a dozen cities, and that's about it. It is the number 7,381st best place to retire in America. So you're going down the list. How thousands? 7,381st best place to retire in Arizona, according to this website. In the U.S.? In the U.S., in the entire U.S. And everybody here is retired, too.

That's the other thing. I have resident reviews. These people went down that whole list and got to 7 000 good enough well good enough resident reviews quote this area is growing because of its natural beauty it's a fairly peaceful and quiet place but sometimes that can get boring for young people there's not much to do i've also noticed an increase in rehab and old folks homes which i see as troubling okay four stars though and then the next one because of the high concentration of rehab homes there's quite a bit of drug related crimes there's also the occasional racist hate crime but they're uh

but other than that it's mostly quiet uh three stars three stars for all the rehab so apparently rehab centers there's a lot of them up there. That's fascinating. Because there are two people, two different people, two out of three reviews mention rehab centers. So people in this place, the population of the whole area up there, that whole big area,

is 5,398. So almost 5,400. So a little over 5,000. Up 109% since 1990, which everything in Arizona. In 1990, Phoenix had like 1.2 million people, and now there's like 4.5 million people in the whole metropolitan area. So shut up.

Had 3,000 people in 2000, too. So it's been growing a lot since 2000. Median age here, 37.4 is average. Median age here, 60.8. Holy shit, they're old. 60.8. Right up the middle is 60. Very fucking old. If there's a 30-year-old, there's a 90-year-old. That shit they're old. 60.8. That is. Right up the middle is 60. Very fucking old. If there's a 30 year old

there's a 90 year old. That's what I mean. Wow. That is if there's a 15 year old there's a 140 year old. It's insane. It's fucking crazy. I like how you carried the one there. You gotta do it. So 60.8 which is nuts. Yeah. Male female populations are normal

though which is weird because the people aren't here aren't like 85 they're like 65 they're like new retirees it's very strange 30 of the people here are between the ages of 65 and 74 30 of the people here are in that nine year span which is insane bingo uh can you imagine how many fucking wednesday night bingo games are going if the traffic is insane night it's like wednesday at 3 p.m yeah i was gonna say wednesday at 5 30 right after dinner boy it's after the potluck all other groups are under the norm of uh population all other age groups except for 15 to 17 year olds which is also a little bit higher which i don't

understand at all they brought a couple of them brought their punk grandkids up there that's what it is shitty parents they're on their way to rehab anyway they're like i guess bring them here it's almost rehab they can walk to the rehab we'll move them over to the rehab uh married population it's usually 50 50 that's the norm here 72 married so old couples are moving up there like crazy. And those are now married is 70.43. So it is just not like some people have got divorced, a bunch of widows, none of that shit. They retired together and moved there. There's actually less widowed population than normal with that age, which is crazy.

Not a lot of married with children. Married with no children, 74% or 73.72 percent so you're talking that's a lot of they're getting the fuck away from the big city we didn't do anything with our lives but up here it's expensive they must they had to have to live here we'll talk about it in a minute but uh race of this town it's it's the mountains of northern arizona it's 92 white 0.00 percent black no black people not a black person in 5000 zero what's the racist hate crimes they were talking about there's nobody to perpetrate them on except for the 4.22 percent asians that are there i don't know what they're attacking the asians over like what the fuck do you care we'll leave us alone i know what it is it's old dudes

that that remember they were in vietnam yeah overabundance of vietnam veterans they're just pissed snap dude's like i'm not fucking vietnamese number one number one i'm korean is charlie number two wait a minute oh shit what did i do damn it ladies and gentlemen my co-host andrew jackson i legitimately tried to pull... Yeah, I know. You were the most American name you could pull. And you pulled the one thing. The only one. The only one. That's fucking horribly insulting.

Jesus, what the fuck? That was a good one right there. That was classic. Oh, man. As soon as I said it, blood rushed to my fucking head. It didn't happen before you said it. I know that. That's where all the blood was away

from your head which makes sense uh 2.85 percent hispanic jimmy in arizona why did i go with henry what am i that would have been perfect bill bob anything charlie only only less than three percent hispanic here and less than two hours from Phoenix, which seems unfathomable. That's unfathomable. I don't even know that. That's crazy. 26.2% of the people here are religious. They're just like, we gave up on that.

We left our kids behind. We're going up to the mountains. Fuck religion. 7.9% Catholic. 4.7% LDS. It does snow up there, so they're going to blend right in. Get close to Utah. 0.02% Jewish, so not very Jewish.

0.0% Muslim. About 33% Democrat in the last presidential election. About 64% Republican. These are older white people who have a lot of money, so not a big shock. That is the core demographic there. Unemployment rates about normal five, five and change. Same as the rest of the country here. Household income is very high.

Seventy two thousand six hundred four dollars is the average, which is about almost 20,000 higher than the national average. On retirement, the jobs are mainly educational services because you can get to colleges around there. And a lot of in the healthcare industry. Shocking with the retired community. Overall cost of living, 100 is par average regular. Here it is 163 and that is almost exclusively for housing because housing is a 297. My fuck. Housing, median home cost here, $555,100.

Oh my word. Very expensive. And 43% of the houses were built between 2000 and 2009. 40%? Yeah, they had a huge population boom, and they built everything. It's all brand new shit. That's intense. Pretty much, yeah.

Most of the houses are over the 300,000 mark. Very few under the, less than 20 20 of them are worth under 200 grand okay so and if we've convinced you that you are you're old enough and you can pull it off enough and you're you're white enough to be here we have for you the williamson arizona real estate report your average two-bedroom rental in this area of any kind is going to be $1,240, which that's the way to go. Yeah, it's reasonable. Because that is on the mark because everything else is expensive. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 648-square-foot bungalow thing.

It's on Hootenanny Road. Oh, my God. So that doesn't embarrass you enough to stay out of the area uh 205 000 that is the cheapest house in this area 205 to live on hootenanny road in a studio apartment size place i found a three bedroom two bath two and a half bath sorry 1747 square foot home here for $375,000. It's just not even that great either. It's pricey, we'll say.

Then I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,556 square foot place. It's on 2.78 acres. Shit, yeah. It's on a big acreage, $629,900. So it's pricey up there, man. That is pricey. Things to do in this area, not a lot. Everything is Prescott.

Go to Prescott. Go to Prescott. Everything here is like, well, if you just go to Prescott down the road, we don't do shit here. But them down, they got stuff going on. Have you been to that Lynx Lake? It's down in Prescott. If you go down to Prescott.

Also, there's this restaurant. It's in Prescott. It's everything. There's a golf course down there near Prescott. Is it? Where is it now? Where is it now? Honey, where did we see? Oh, Prescott. It's in Prescott. Also, there's this restaurant. It's in Prescott. It's everything. There's a golf course down there near Prescott. Is it? Where is it now? Honey, where did we see? Oh, Prescott.

It's in Prescott. That's right. Everything is just down the road in Prescott. And Prescott's got 39,000 people in it. It's not like it's the big city. Does it really? 39,000 people in the Prescott area. That's fascinating.

I think that includes Prescott Valley and all that shit around there. Things to do here. I have the Friends of Williamson Valley Fire District Annual Arts and Craft Show. That's what they do here. You got to be friends of the fire people? That's who puts it on. It's a juried show. They judge shit.

Highlights a select group of artisans and crafters under the tall trees that shade the historic Courthouse Plaza in downtown Prescott. Even that's in Prescott, but it's from there. Ridiculous. Free to everybody, so enjoy that, for Christ's sake. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here. Property crime is about

half the average national rate, which is not bad. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is about one-third under the average. So it's about two-thirds of the national average. So it's safer than usual here, which it's a bunch of old people living in expensive houses. They're not stealing anything.

You expect that. And none of these people get murdered in a beautiful house in this thing anyway. So like we said, we needed to peg this on a town. Sorry, Williamson. Well, guess what now people know you exist before now honestly if jimmy doesn't know that you exist and you're in arizona you're in a piney area of arizona you do not fucking exist because every weekend he goes and drives around northern arizona that's all he does christ almighty i love it up there i know you

do it's beautiful up there especially you like to to drive in the woods and shit like that. It's fun up there. It's gorgeous up there. But like I'm saying, though, if you don't know a 57 square mile area, you don't even know what the hell it is. That shit is flying under the radar, let's just say. Not a lot happening. Those old people don't want people to know about it.

I feel like it's a secret. Yeah, they're like, don't you tell nobody. I worked 60.3 years on this planet understand you know how long i worked to live away from these fucking people i feel like nobody's allowed to leave maybe it's like a weird like a compound like once you go there they're like welcome and then you go to like your first yeah you go to like a potluck welcome to town dinner town thing uh welcome to town dinner and you go there and they're like yay and they have a big toast to you and you're the guest of honor and they go you know you can't leave right you know y'all can't leave right hope you liked traveling did you say goodbye to your grandkids because

they ain't welcome neither they ain't welcome here we don't have no young but we have a bunch of kids that are 15 to 17 and they're little shitheads and we ain't having no more you ain't welcome here. We don't have no young. But we have a bunch of kids that are 15 to 17, and they're little shitheads, and we ain't having no more. You ain't allowed to leave and tell nobody else what's going on here. This place is involuntary cocoon. Enjoy. Wilford Brimley is that away. Involuntary cocoon.

Which is the name. Jessica Tandy's around the corner. Get your ass over there. Which is going to be the name of this show. Involuntary cocoon. Your grandkids ain't welcome unless they get on that smack oh they can come on down to the rehab center the rehab center's up boy so uh hey everybody just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about

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Blue Apron, a better way to cook. Blueapron.com slash small for three free meals. Go get your meals. And now back to the show. Let's talk about a murder that happened in this town here. We have to go back to 1994. 1994, rural northern Arizona. So there is 2,000 people in the area in this time, in a huge, in a 58-square-mile, 57-square-mile area. There is 2,000 people scattered throughout the forest.

So this is not... Just dotting the hillside. Dotting the hillside. And a lot of these are beautiful mountain houses. But in 94, this is before they built a lot of the new shit. So there's a bunch of older shit and some nice old stuff. And then some mountain people that live there also that I don't think live there anymore. They've been priced out.

That's a good way to get the riffraff out. Make your houses worth $650,000 and mountain people are done for. That's it. Well, yeah, they'll sell. That's what they do. Well, that's pretty much how they do when they want to build a... Gentrification. That's how they do gentrification anyway.

And they're like, well, shit, you never thought your house was worth $300,000, did you? Well, it is now. Today it is. And they build a million dollar house on it. And then these people try to find a place to live nearby with that money and can't. And that's what happens. And it sucks. I grew up here.

Shit. I raised a family here. Oh, well. And oh well i can't live maybe i'll buy a new house oh 648 square feet i have three kids i don't think that's gonna cut it never mind so uh these people here a couple people will talk about number one is a woman named lisa kester uh lisa dawn kester she's 28 years old in 1994 and uh she's kind of troubled she's got kind of a troubled uh you know well i mean she's 28 but she likes to drink and she does some drugs and she likes to just generally fuck around and uh she likes to kind of be a jackass with this guy who's a real jackass this is why i feel like she has problems and i don't know too much about her upbringing or anything like that but i feel like there's got to be issues with her because she is hanging out with and being a girlfriend having a serious relationship with a guy named george russell k or senior by the

way he named his child junior for all you crime and sports listeners you know bad fucking sign right there uh and he he makes sure to tack that senior on all of his shit too he is george k or senior uh do not mistake me for that one no no uh he's 40 years old at the time so there's a 12 year age difference which is fine if everybody's got their shit together right that's the thing but if he's a scumbag and we'll talk about what level of scumbag he is in a minute, if he's kind of a dirtbag, it's a different thing. Then there's something wrong with then she's got problems, I assume, to to tolerate that relationship. Or it's the other direction where she was just raised in such a fucking sheltered life. that too that happens too that happens too i remember on uh back in the day on the love line radio show that people would call in and they'd ask their question and they go hold on we're gonna bet on you and they would they would bet on the person's past just based on here's my problem

they would bet on your how you grew up and all that kind of shit what leads to that right and this sort of thing is either one or the other it's either uh, you know, not this situation, but a situation like this. They were always either like, was your father a pastor or did your uncle molest you? Which one was it? Did your dad leave or that sort? And we don't mean obviously people have free will and choices and they sometimes they just like to be with fuck ups. But generally, if you're 28, not 19, if you're 28 and you're still fucking around with some 40-year-old dirtbag and doing drugs and all that kind of shit, something's wrong. Something's wrong, basically, with your whole deal.

And I love Dr. Drew, but man, did his questions come off creepy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, boy, oh, boy. He's the most well-meaning but creepy-sounding guy. It's really hard to listen to him go, did your uncle molest you? And it feels like he's got it out and he's tugging to the story. See, I never got that off him.

I always feel like he's overly empathetic, but the thing is, I don't feel like he's faking it. I just feel like he has an abundance of empathy that's weird to me that I find that. Now, that's a good thing, and I find it creepy because there's something wrong with me

because I'm damaged, but that's a good thing and I find it creepy because there's something wrong with me because I'm damaged but that's a whole other trail to go down. But it's everything mixed with like a drip of a personality. And that's where the creepy breeds. Well if you listen to like how he grew up too. I don't know fuck about him. His dad was a

doctor and he's a real achiever and he never did anything wrong and he went to all the best prep schools and he went to the you know uh amherst i believe he went to yeah he's very much you know very upper crust yeah yeah they used to at carola used to always make fun of him for it he always used to always say that you know him and his ascot when he was a kid they go he is just white privilege and body he said carola used to say that he went to uh who was it lord something lord something's school for hemophiliacs or some shit where your uniform included an ascot issue to you and all this shit so you know but he tries to be very i don't know enough dr drew shit but we we're not

psychiatrists but i just from experience and from just general shit that's that's the what you're gonna get is that there's something wrong with both these people, probably, I'm going to assume. Now, George fancies himself a writer and a cartoonist. Okay. And we'll say, too, his cartoons aren't bad. He's not bad at drawing them, we'll say. Is he a freelance guy? They make no sense.

We'll talk about it. No, he's not an anything guy. He fancies himself a writer. Oh, so he fancies himself. Got it. Yeah, he's not. Got a notepad in the corner. Yeah, he's not Stephen King.

We'll put it that way. They're not. People aren't just hunting him down for his next novel. It's, you know, he's not the peanuts guy in the Sunday comics. No, no, no. He claims that at 14. Now, I couldn't track this down from, you know a 19 a mid-60s uh uh nra national rifle association magazine but he claims that when he was 14 he was published in the national

rifle associations magazine american rifleman which sounds frightening like an essay of his an essay or i don't know if it's a letter going, I like to shoot guns. And they said, well, this young man's got a he's a model of the youth of today. But he claims also after this, this is so weird. OK, I don't know much about this, but he says he was published. He was a right and son of a bitch when he was a kid. I mean, he claims he's highly intelligent and he's a writer and he's all this shit. I mean, he claims he's highly intelligent and he's a writer and he's all this shit. But he says shortly after he was published in National Rifle Association, he developed dyslexia in his mid teens. What?

I don't know if that's true. And I did not. And I'm not positive about it. But I don't think that's how that works. Yeah. I don't think it's like Alzheimer's where you start to develop it. And you're like, oh, I don't can't read as good anymore. Like that's I'm reading less well now.

I've heard the opposite where you have it and then it diminishes as you get older. If you work on it. Right. I don't ever heard of it. Like just pop it up. I mean, to the point where he was a published writer the year before. But now ninth grade getting shit published. Tenth grade.

What? Fuck. Oh, shit. I can't read that i don't know was that oh damn oh two oh t oh okay that's he's writing shit in crayon with k's back no not that dyslexia makes you write shit in crayon with k's backwards as i was saying but but that that's not how it works we're making fun of him not dyslexics we're making fun of a person saying that i went from being a great writer to not being able to read the next year in my teens.

Because that's not. Just lost it. Yeah, he lost it like a pitcher loses his fastball. I don't have any more stank on it. I'll get it. Last year, that curve really snapped and broke down in the zone. And this year, it's just kind of fucking laying out there. I don't get it, man.

He lost it. Super strange. He could write about race cars because race cars are the same for him. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. It's a good subject for him. But he can't write anything about it. Just race car, race car.

No, he just writes race car over and over again. We realize that's not dyslexia. But he's claiming he's got a lot of excuses for a lot of shit we'll talk about for everything for it's pretty amazing okay he uh he began failing english english classes during high school after this so he went from published you know writer on his way to uh i can't read i can't pass english i don't know what happened what the fuck happened you know what happened to me in high school? Because I was the same way. I was really good.

And then I started being interested in girls and weed. And I started failing English. I didn't get dyslexic. I read less. But not because I was dyslexic. Because I went, hey, weed's good. And she's got a great ass. This is fucking amazing.

And I'm 16. And that's all I can think about. And basketball. Those are my interests right now. I'm sitting in this class. And I can't get rid of this boner. I'm going to the bathroom. This is not cool. Yeah. I'm going to fail this class and i can't get rid of this boner i'm going to the bathroom this is not cool yeah i'm gonna fail this class i haven't i can't focus this class i gotta get rid of this boner that's that's the thing here uh he goes

we'll talk about his past a little bit uh 1990 i'm digging up shit on this guy was hard man i really wasn't easy this was a tough this is one of those cases that is like if you look it up on murderpedia it's just a paragraph. Really? And you're like, ooh, that's not a lot to go on. So you had to go deep into it and find the court documents. And they had one on there, but then I had to find the appeals that had the deeper shit on it and all that shit. And then I had to go.

Sitting up like Jake Gyllenhaal in Zodiac? Yeah, that's what I'm doing, man. And I had to go into the newspaper archives, and I did find when his father died uh in 1990 his father now this might explain something of i don't know his father's name is heinz rotau his nickname was smoky smoky smoky but smoky's from germany yes uh he's a 70 he died in 1990 at 76 years old so that dates him to some pretty bad shit. That dates him to right smack in the middle of that shit. I don't know. It never

says on his obituary when he came over here, but if it was right around 43 hopefully he came in 37. Good for him. His parents saw some bad shit on the horizon and decided to come on over to the States. I don't think that's how it works.

Oh, that's a bad time to be German. Not a good time to be German. I was like, ooh, 76, 1990. Oh, no. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He was 30 years old in 1944. That is prime shoe-killing time.

That is not a good age to be at that time. That's a man in a... They made you do bad shit. Yeah. And you did it. So many S's on his jacket. We're just not happy with this at all smoky what's that stand for what'd you smoke sir yeah not people i hope i pray that

it's not terrible yeah jewish jerky uh no good uh so bad stuff here but uh yeah he died 1990 uh now uh george also has a couple of brothers and i'm sorry, a brother and a sister. And he has one child of his own who I believe he might have two, but one he gives a shit about. And then his sister has some kids, too. That is Junior. Got it. And who we'll use as an excuse for things later on. Oh, get out.

Obviously. Come on. He's a junior. Right. But he blames the kid. No, no, no. He tries to get out of something using the kid as an excuse of like, but my kid. Right.

They're like, sorry, just because you named him junior doesn't mean you actually give a fuck or do anything stupid yeah so uh lisa says lisa kester we're talking about uh the 28 year old girlfriend of george kayer uh lisa says that george annoyingly to the point of annoyance constantly bragged about a gambling system that he's concocted in his dyslexic head to defeat the las vegas casinos oh no okay now the people that do come up with gambling systems that actually do defeat the las vegas casinos are mit scholars that's who does it literally they have mit card teams that do crazy fucking math and then come up with the way to do this shit dyslexic idiots who come from the fucking mountains of

Arizona and fail English class don't fucking do this I get that English and math have nothing to do with each other and neither does dyslexia he's not defeating the Vegas casinos okay you're not rain man sorry the formula for for defeating casinos requires some algebra, which has letters, which he can't read.

There'll be backwards and he's going to mess it up. So do not tweet us about dyslexia. We know it's a fucking joke. He's an idiot that tried to say that he went from being the next Stephen King to not being able to read in a year's time. That's not OK. He's incredible. Did everyone think maybe his eyesight went bad, too? Is that a possibility?

His parents just didn't. That's when I started wearing glasses. Yeah, and his hardcore German father was just like, I'm fine. And he's just like, but I really can't see. And he's like, weak, weak. And he's like, okay. Eat more sauerkraut. He's like, you go.

And he's like, I don't know. And he just went to school. And he's like, I think I'm dyslexic. I can't read that at all. Maybe that's what it was. So this George to school and he's like, I think I'm dyslexic. I don't I can't I can't read that at all. Maybe that's what it was. So this George has a he's got a system. Boy, he's going to defeat the Vegas casinos, which whenever anybody says that without any background in some kind of crazy theoretical math or whatever, I think it's pretty fucking

amusing, honestly, unless it's like sit at the slot machine that's closest to the aisle because they want people to see it hitting. That's advice that you can give. I've never heard that. Yeah, that's one of those old Vegas tricks. On the end of aisles, somewhere, the most visible slot machines hit the most, because they want people to see them hitting, because then they walk up by and think, oh shit, people

are winning. Oh, look, there's another one exactly the same right next to it. Exactly. Where's the ones in further, a little tighter, wound. I don't know. I've seen more grandmas fucking knocking them out on those ones that are deep down the aisle. I think they're there every day and they know specifically which they've done every machine. Like, this is the one.

This one's been cycled enough to get some winds out of it. They bribe the calibration guy to tell them which one's loose. They pen them in with their walkers cherries at you which one which one's triple sevens don't fuck with us don't you mess with us i'll tell you right now so uh yeah that's their little old lady gang i love that would be great so so the problem was this is a guy who is got his girlfriend they live in uh in uh uh what is it cord is cord is uh what is junction cord is uh in uh uh what is it cordis cordis uh cordis junction cordis junction i believe yeah cordis junction cordis river which one is the one oh cordis

junction is up there there's also uh cordis lake cordis lake sorry cordis lake they live by cordis lake which is southeast of tucson right or tucson prescott so you have prescott in the middle and you have down southeast is Cordes Lake, where George Kayer and Lisa live, and then Williamson is northwest, about probably 40, 50 miles away from each other with Prescott in the middle. Once you get off the freeway, Prescott's maybe 30 minutes down the road. Yeah. You get off the freeway at Cordes Lake, Cordes Junction, and it's just up the road, so then

Williamson would be 15 minutes away. It's another 20 minutes north or whatever we said there. Got it. So problem is he's going around. He's like, I got this system, man. I got this system. And I don't know if like, and she, I mean, she's with him, but I think she's just like, Jesus Christ.

She knows he's a fucking moron. She knows this guy isn't the smartest guy in the world. But I don't know if she's like believes him or what but it doesn't matter because neither of them ever have any money to go gamble with so he's got this system uh that he is just fucking i mean it's it this is the one for him he just needs to get to vegas and then he will be in the rain man suite and uh be retired in no time he's gonna be like one of those idiots on ESPN in the middle of the night with his hat pulled down and a hood up fucking playing poker.

He's ready to go. But instead, too broke to ever do it. That's how surefire way to just be done and be rich for life. But he can't scrape up a few bucks to do that, which is very sad. Instead, he'll never be Dan Bilzerian. No. What is that? it's a guy he's a fucking he's a veteran from the from the um our military yeah and he is a super jacked dude with a big long

beard with like rifles and shit but he wins in casinos oh is he a poker guy yeah he's an he's an instagram fucking legend he has like fucking 30 million people on Instagram. World series of poker lunatics. But he does like orgies on Instagram and takes pictures of all these women that he's banging. Point is, he's what this idiot wants to be. Sounds like it. All he needs is that one big payday at a casino. Yeah, but he has a system, though. Does that guy have a system, Jimmy?

You know, I think it's just be handsome and the casino probably just doesn't give a shit what you do these dude this this guy i hate those world series of poker assholes they have nicknames and shit shut up shut up the fucking black are you kidding me dick sir what is the one guy the unabomber no take your fucking sunglasses and your hat off and sit there like a normal person, you dipshit. You fucking idiot with your hood pulled over your head. There's always a little Asian guy. There's always a big, like a high roller, like dude that's a CEO of a company. Some dipshit with his headphones on.

Well, you can't be bothered. That's like 19. Yeah. Fucking jackass. Yeah. Why do you have so much time? Who flew there on his own plane? Fuck these people.

You can't like these people. No. There's zero likability about all of them. About any of them. So he instead, the reason why he has no money is because he can't really hold a job. He's a traveling salesman, sort of, kind of, if you want to call it that he sells uh t-shirts and jewelry and like knickknack shit like to stores and stands in northern arizona and shit like that i don't know what he's doing like a mobile swap me i he goes around with like a two suitcases trying to sell turquoise

shitty jewelry to roadside fucking gas stations in Northern Arizona. I don't know what he's doing, but that does not sound lucrative. No. I can see you not having a lot of extra money to gamble with if that's your profession. He's a picker. He's a picker. Yeah, kind of. Sort of.

He's selling t-shirts. What kind of t-shirt? I farted in Arizona and that's like a turquoise and pink. I farted in the Avapai Valley. He's got tchotchkes. He's got the shit from gas stations that nobody buys like yeah the crap but in those northern arizona gas stations people actually buy that shit from out of state they're like honey turquoise look and they're like holy shit i ain't never seen no silver turquoise when you shake the snow globe there's flakes it's sand in there that's funny

now that's hey y'all see this the lollipop with the scorpion in it i'm gonna buy seven eight of those and bring back home with me and that's a panhandle like we said not southern because that's what people in new york i remember coming out here going great we should buy a few of these fucking scorpion things and take them back home people get a kick out of this shit and it's like no no stop it it's just stupid it's just stupid tequila sucker meanwhile there's no tequila in it no tequila but there's a bug in there thanks there's a cockroach there's one with a meal worm in predatory insect yeah yeah the tequila one with the fucking stupid worm uh now he did supplement his income from his clearly lucrative traveling sales business uh with his other his other source

of income is quote bilking the government of benefits through fake identities that both he and kester created it's called identity theft so it's called identity theft so in 94 him and his girlfriend these two are coming up with fake identities so they can get like fake social security checks and benefit checks from other people. And he's also a veteran, too. He was in the military. Also, he's in the military, this guy at one point. So I don't know if that if he knows the system a little bit based, you know, having to do

shit through the military. I don't know if he does just good at paperwork. I don't know. But they figure it out. And that's what I mean. She's not just going along for the ride. She's involved in this shit, too. Like they live by like, oh, go sell some T-shirts and I'll, you know, steal someone's identity

and then we'll get a check next month. And that's how they live. Good Christ. So, I mean, that's not bananas. It's a fucked up way to live. A fucking dummy like this can figure it out to steal. He's not stupid. That's the thing.

He's not stupid. He's just not a good reader. He's a fucking not a strong, but he's not stupid that's the thing he's not stupid he's just not a good reader he's a fucking not a strong but he's not stupid he's not a reader that's not a reader which i mean you're not a reader no you can but i don't know i don't i wouldn't have the first fucking idea how to steal an identity this guy's just a fucking gamesman and and uh he's a criminal he's a career criminal criminal he's a career criminal a career underem. He's a career criminal, a career underemployed, fills in his income with illegality. That's just how he fucking rolls, man. Underachieving motherfucker.

Yeah, that's how he, and he was going to be a published author. Right. Think about, at 14. Grace. Think about, this is grace. This is definitely grace. Think about at 14 how happy his Nazi German father was that he's published in a rifle magazine. He's probably like, my son, my son, the American rifleman.

This is what I dreamed of when I came here. And next thing you know, he's doing this horse shit. So not terrific. He claims a history of mental illness and also a history of suicide ideation. So he's just thought about it a lot. And I was going to say, that's I don't know if. Yeah. But it doesn't excuse a lot of behavior ever.

And that's all. That's a lot of people, too. And so that's also a history of alcoholism in his family. You're fucking German. What do you want? Sorry. Also a history of alcoholism in his family. You're fucking German.

What do you want? Sorry. And also he claims polysubstance abuse. Just anything you can get his fucking hands on. All of it. So it's him and his girlfriend. He's selling knickknacks and turquoise shit and t-shirts and bilking the government and fucking faking identities and doing buying drugs with it and coming up with gambling schemes that he can't get enough money for because he's got to buy drugs with that money. He is great.

He's a mess, this guy. This is like northern Arizona, what you think of outside of the nice shit. And then there's a bunch of these people running around the mountains, hopped up on meth. The people that believe in the vortex of Sedona. Yeah, yeah. Oh, shit, them and 65-year-old ladies. So 1981, he is convicted of first-degree burglary, which is a pretty serious offense, actually. A first-degree burglary is a pretty hefty one.

It's horse thieving. I believe it's horse thievery. Cattle rustling was his charge on that one. So that is 94 as he's 40. So he's, you know, what, 27 when this happens. So he never, and he just has a lot of history of petty crime, petty crime. That's his big serious offense, though. That's his like, you know, one that you can throw out there and go, that's not a good guy. First degree burglary is not okay.

He's got a bunch of shit, drugged shit and this and that. Knick-knack shit that you can't find, basically. He sells knick-knacks. He's arrested by knick-knacks. It's all knick-knacks. That's a charge that you expect of a guy that does the extracurriculars that he's into. That's the thing. That's exactly right.

That's where you're going. If you're doing this life. Well, it seems like he figured out that breaking in and burglarizing things is a good way to get caught and uh that's a pretty serious felony and all that but this whole identity theft if we just come up with different identities and stuff like that this is a whole different ball game here this is not like some no one's going to catch me with the loot bag in my hand in the middle of empty in the safe like this is this is fine this is pretty big internet stuff that's what i mean so much easier to get away this would be so hard to track somebody who's doing this shit in the middle of nowhere i mean it took them 18 years to find the fucking unabomber you know what i mean back then away

that's what i'm saying because he was stowed away so this guy who the fuck knows how long they could do this for? By 1994, he is wanted also on a probation violation. So he's got a gambling scheme, but no money. Traveling salesman, lots of lots of drugs. Him and his girlfriend have schemes. He's a convicted burglar and he's wanted for a probation violation. Probation for one of his many just just problems out there that he gets into. So obviously this is everything is going super well. for one of his many problems out there that he gets into. So obviously, everything is going super well.

Super well. What I understand, Lisa's parents love him. Oh, just no. I'm sure they hated his fuck. Or if her parents gave two shits about her, which they probably don't, then they would hate this fucking man, I'm sure. But they're probably not around, so you go there you go uh also oh by the way lisa's pregnant with his child right now is that junior that is no no this is he's already had a junior this is this is the second one okay

this is the second this is another one coming up here uh don't know what sex this is but he's got another child out there somewhere i assume this is the one and who the fuck knows what else he's got floating around out there floating around the forest of northern arizona tree children it's easy to get lost it is and who the fuck knows what he did with them just stored them in a hollowed out tree or something and we're like he'll be good he's fine i'll not what i will do though is take his identity yeah and get me another check he definitely has a social security number oh you know that and he's poor child's just real disabled we're gonna have to get him some money so uh you know how that goes so yeah she's pregnant with this kid so this is a

fucking mess this is just a a swirling storm of white trashery and hillbillery and nickery that i can't even i can't wrap my head around this. This sounds like a nightmare. This is like one of those situations where you see from the outside and you would think about how would you go in and fix it. I wouldn't know where to start. This is like one of those where you walk in and like, you know, it's not just the kids have made a mess in the house. It's the cops came and raided it looking for cocaine in the walls.

And you just go, well, we got to just move. We just should burn this fucking place to the ground because it's the cops came and raided it looking for cocaine in the walls and you just go well we got to just move we just should burn this fucking place to the ground because it's destroyed that's what's this guy's life on the way out when the cops slammed the door some candles fell over on the old newspaper burned it all to the ground thankfully this is all flaming it's that's that's what i feel like is going on if you walked in this front door you wouldn't start by going okay i'll mop that up clean this sweep that you go, I don't have any fun. Fuck it. Fuck it.

Just slam the door behind him. Hope it burns. If you close the door, it disappears. It's just gone. Close the door quick. I am leaving now. Now, they know a guy named Delbert Haas. H-A-A-S.

Haas. Delbert, which sounds like an older man's name, which you're not mistaken because Delbert Haas, H-A-A-S, Haas. Delbert, which sounds like an older man's name, which you're not mistaken because Delbert is 63 in 1994. So Delbert's born in 1931, obviously. So Delbert's an older fella. Delbert is no, like, just, Delbert used to be like a biker kind of guy and shit like that.

Like, Delbert's an old... He's been through some shit. He's been through some shit. Delbert through some shit delbert's no fucking he's not some just uh little old man sitting there doing what i'm 63 is not an old man but in 94 63 was older than it is now it just is uh but still this guy was a little spry and shit like that uh now i found an article he's been through some shit though because i found a newspaper article on Delbert Haas from 1977, where he was in a horrible motorcycle accident, so bad that it was in the newspaper, in a major city. It was in Phoenix, too.

It wasn't up in the middle of nowhere here. A man that he was riding with was killed in it. A motorcycle collided with two vehicles is what happened here uh they said uh there was a patrolman that saw it he was right he said that this guy stewart uh was the other guy uh stewart was riding his motorcycle north on cave creek road which is uh he lost control on a curve at 16th street we all know where all this shit is exactly we know exactly where the fucking sunny slope yeah it's right up there. Lost there and sideswiped a southbound car driven by a 34-year-old woman named Judy Schrauner. And the passenger on the motorcycle, on the back of it, was Delbert Haas.

Two dudes on a motorcycle. Yeah, they were going up Sunny Slope. You never do that. First of all, we know Sunny Slope. If you're not from Phoenix, which most of you aren't, Sunny Slope is a real kind of cracky area. It's horrible. It's an area where you go, wow, if they would have figured out that this could have been

really nice before the crackheads moved in, this place could be fucking gorgeous because it's these beautiful hills and the sunset there is beautiful and it's all fucking crackheads. It was a TB village when it started. It still is. It fucking crackheads. It was a TB village when it started. It still is. It fucking still is. Those people, I would rather they all had tuberculosis because at least that's treatable. This shit what they have, they're a fucking disaster.

They need to head on up to Williamson and get into those rehabs. These people in here, these are zombie fucking. At night, you just see people skittering across the road and shit. It is horrible up there. zombie fucking at night you just see people skittering across the road and shit it is shadows of shit it is horrible up there you're driving down the road and if you don't have your eyes open oh yeah you will hit a crackhead you will hit one you will hit somebody on something so if you're on the back of a motorcycle it's so bad in that neighborhood that a a serial killer was hiding in fucking planes oh yeah nobody cared the guy that was sawing off heads and throwing them in canals.

He was just camping out right there. He's not freaking out in the middle of the road holding a crack seance. So they said he's fine, probably. So bad the man had a retired police car that said, like, zombie apocalypse rescue vehicle. That shit didn't... You just ignore that, though. That shit didn't raise a red flag sunny slope not in sunny slope sunny slope yeah it's not cool and this guy another very phoenix centric fact delbert

haas at the time his address was 328 east hatcher so third street and hatcher right there like john c lincoln hospital that might be the south of that or north of that. This is the, that's the heart and soul of this area. So if you live in that area and you're riding on the back of another guy's motorcycle through there, your life isn't exactly working out wonderfully for you, especially if you're 46 years old as Delbert was when this was happening. Holy shit, a 46-year-old man on the back of another dude's motorcycle? Crazy. Get a car, fellas.

So Delbert. There are three things you don't share with another man,ames it's an umbrella yeah an ice cream cone and a fucking motorcycle from now what is that no it is from something that's my joke no it's not your joke yeah but it's from something else it's not your punchline you say that in something else but it's that's an old thing of the you don't share the lollipop and an ice cream cone and a motorcycle are two things i've never heard that in my life. Really? I've heard old bikers say it.

I thought it was genius for writing that down. Well, you put the third one in there, and that was funny, too. And you didn't know it, so it doesn't matter. It's not like you heard it and then wrote it down. But old bikers said that. Really? Yeah. You don't share it.

And two things you never share with another man, an ice cream cone and a motorcycle. It's brilliant. I used to sell bikers' weeds when I was a teenager. You don't. That with another man an ice cream cone and a motorcycle i used to sell bikers weed true as a teenager so you don't that's what they told me and i guess it's right because you figured it out too i thought i was a genius you are you are a genius don't sell yourself so funny don't sell yourself short no it's fantastic probably said that shit he's like, fuck it. We don't got a car. When this motorcycle hits this car, Delbert is thrown from the motorcycle. But he's lucky to be thrown from the motorcycle, actually. He actually gets the better of this whole thing.

He's thrown from the motorcycle, but Stewart, the guy who was riding it, stayed on the motorcycle as it flipped over. Oh, no. And then slid on its side and slammed into a pickup truck driven by a 24-year-old man named Eldon Johnson, which is crazy. Then the motor, that's not bad enough. The motorcycle burst into flames. Oh, God. So this is like a cartoon, basically. It bounces off one, flips over, slides, slams into something else, and you go, oh, well, at least a poof, and then a person flames.

You're like, shit, okay, never mind. And that's why they don't have seatbelts. Yeah, it's like a Reno 911 thing. Oh, he's fine. It's all right. Poof. Oh, maybe not. Maybe he's not okay.

No, shit. Well, somebody get a fire extinguisher. And a bystander pulled Stewart out of the fire, and he ends up up uh the motorcycle was burned the pickup truck was burned by the motorcycle they were both they burned together and uh the woman in the car had injuries even that's how hard they hit they make a motorcycle flip and fly off of you sideswiped that car sideswiped so hard that it made a motorcycle fly into the air which it's and motorcycles are heavy and injure someone and injure someone. Stuart dies four hours later at John C. Lincoln Hospital, which is right there. Right there.

I mean, it is two fucking minutes away from me. Probably could have walked there. I mean, they got him there ASAP. I mean, there's no way he didn't. And he still died. So that's how bad he was. And Haas was treated and released. He was in good condition.

And he got sent down to county because he probably didn't have any insurance. So, this is a guy who's been through some shit. Well, it's true. Yeah, they took him all the way down to 24. I know it's an even farther drive, but the other hospital's literally a block away. It doesn't matter. We're taking

you to the other one. I might die. We might. We'll see. We will definitely find out. might. We'll see. We will definitely find out. All right. We'll see. So this Delbert at the time, George and Lisa are hanging out with him, and they like hanging out with him, and they find out, Delbert lets slip to George, that he recently received a large amount of money from an insurance settlement.

This guy has bad fucking luck, because this is another insurance settlement. What else happened to him? Christ in 70, 70 flew off a flaming motorcycle and now he's getting another one. Jesus Christ. Maybe that's how he makes his living. He just rides on the back of motorcycles with people. He's like,

if I survive, that's another five years I can live on it. That's all I'm saying. You know, runs the grocery stores looking for a wet aisle. There it is. And he starts running with his car no wet there's no wet sign out yet let's go goes around finds people on motorcycles go can i just hop on the back just for a minute so people that hit them yeah so uh so lisa kester and and george uh kaylor visit haas uh they go They go to his house near Cordes Lakes in November of 1994.

And Lisa says that it's at this meeting in November of 1994 that George convinces Delbert Haas to go gambling with them. Because what does he have? He has money. He's looking at it this way. And the thing is, too, I really think that George is looking at it this way and and and the thing is too like i really think that george is looking at it this way look man i have this system he believes in this system it's one thing he's a delusional fucking moron with magical thinking he thinks he's smart and he believes in this system and he's thinking you have money yeah we are going to benefit each other boy you're going to get rich

off my fucking genius system and all you need to do is put up money. Who can't do that? That's easy. Fuck, all you have to do is fly off a motorcycle and watch it burst into flames, and you get that. No problem at all. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show

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free shipping on their first color kit. All you have to do is use the promo code small. That's promo code small. Madison dash read dot com. Madison dash read R.E.E.D. dot com. Promo code small and get 10 percent off and free shipping. And now back to the show. And now back to the latest novels by Clive Cussler and Stuart Woods. Or maybe you want to catch up on a John Sandford or Virgil. Wow, that's hard to say. Virgil Flower series before the next one. The Holy Ghost comes out.

Just listen to the audio book. It's very easy. Audio books are a great way to keep up with your favorite series and be ready for the next book to hit the stands visit penguin random house audio dot com slash series and start listening today and now back to the show so somehow haas says shit you got a system i got money let's go do this shit. So they decide to go gambling on November 30th, 1994. It is gambling time. George, Lisa, and Delbert, they leave for Laughlin, Nevada. Oh, boy. The classiest place around. They stop in Vegas first, and they go there, and they realize that that's maybe Laughlin's better.

They're going to catch us here. Yeah, maybe Laughlin's a little more our speed, if you don't know anything about Vegas and Laughlin's better. They're going to catch us here. Yeah, maybe Laughlin's a little more our speed. If you don't know anything about Vegas and Laughlin, Laughlin is like if Vegas had an elderly white trash uncle that only came on Thanksgiving. It would be Laughlin. You know, in swingers when they go to Vegas and they go, we need to be like in the old school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that. That's way better than Laugh school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that. That's way better than Laughlin. That's Vegas compared to Laughlin.

Laughlin is god awful. It's terrible. Elvis Presley is walking through those casinos in comparison to what Laughlin is. Laughlin is a shithole. It is a poor Vegas, I guess you could call it. You can get a hotel room for like $17 in Laughlin. So they leave. They end up in Laughlin uh they leave in uh in george's van of course he's got a van obviously he's gonna have

a van because you gotta store your knickknacks and turquoise shit in the back that's the cordes junction vehicle though yeah they stay in the same hotel room in laughlin you know how much a hotel room in laughlin is and it is not much especially in 94 it's nothing it's nothing it's literally if you stay in our hotel for free we'll give you a pass to the buffet just please gamble you plan on being on the slots we'll give you a room anything you would you put in three dollars

that's a room stay all week stay all week please so they all stay in the same hotel room in a shitty gambling town which is all bad all around which is just weird. This guy and his girlfriend and this old guy all hanging out in the same room together. It's very, very strange. Although that they were gambling hardcore, they might not have been sleeping much.

They might not. They might have just been gambling. There's still no clocks. Yeah. Yeah. So after the first night of gambling, George says he went he won big he did it he said i'm fucking my system worked i'm hit the jackpot man i'm i'm i'm up big time i'm high rolling right now how much is they're giving me fucking room so there's no amount we'll get to why that is

why he doesn't say an exact amount oh so he's just bragging i won big i did it i'm the man right so uh uh ha so at this point haas even though uh this is from a hundred dollars that he got from haas haas lent him a hundred dollars of his settlement money so that he could he could use uh he could use the system dollars as a start that's his start yeah okay he said he won big and then he said though but he needed another hundred dollars now i don't know why he needs another hundred dollars if you won big so he goes i won big i did it my system's a big success all i need is another hundred dollars which is right there you're like that doesn't sound right you won big though i don't understand what you're talking about but But he gives him another $100 for some reason, maybe just because he's insane.

And he's like, I don't fucking know. Here's whatever. Or he's blinded by the money. And he's like, do it again. Yeah, do it again. Come on. I'll make you. I'll make you the same amount.

You just need to give me $100. That might have been it, too. We don't know exactly. He said this was so that George could further utilize his genius gambling system that they're all like, oh, my God, we're here with Rain Man. This is the greatest thing ever. We're going to be out of this room in no time and into the suite. What's happening? It's working.

I'm kidding. Laughlin doesn't have any suites. What are we talking about here? So all these suites they have is like a See's Candies place. Yeah, that's it. This is two rooms where one guy threw another guy through the wall. So you could walk through the hole. So technically that's a suite now.

So we just charge you. Two rooms. We charge you double if you want this one. So it's cheaper than putting a wall up. So at this point, shockingly enough, he goes back out to gamble some more. And he loses all this money. He loses this $100. to gamble some more and he loses all this money yeah okay he loses this hundred dollars is his strange that his gambling system isn't foolproof you know on the money pinpoint successful i'm

really surprised by that i expected this guy so i don't know what it was but i expected him to have some genius uh system but he doesn't so what he does is rather than tell delbert that uh yeah i'm a fucking moron i lost all that money remember that gambling system i had i fucked up bad on that one sorry it cost you 200 bucks you know shrug of the shoulders what uh what george does uh george kaler tells delbert that he won huge i won won super big. I won money. I couldn't even fit it all in my pockets. And I left the casino and I got robbed. Somebody jacked me for it.

Get out of here. Somebody stole all my fucking money. They rolled me. They rolled me, man. He goes, they fucking rolled me. I had my pockets were full of money. Dude, my system was crushing. He's like, you have no fucking idea.

Like, I couldn't lose i had to lose a couple just to like get off because people were suspicious at that point like pit bosses were looking at me and shit i had to be cool and then i walk out somebody must have been eyeballing me that's what they do see and then you get outside they fucking roll me man and stole everything i had uh which sounds like horse shit obviously but but yeah it sounds obviously so Lisa says well what are we going to do now that we don't have any fucking money left she asks

she asked George like okay you're saying you got robbed whether you lost the money or not I won't say which it is but whether you're robbed or or just a moron zero is a zero well what's more plausible? Okay.

Person goes to a casino and loses $100, which happens, I don't know, a million fucking thousand times a day. Since we started this show an hour ago. Thousands of people have lost $100. So many. So many thousands of people have lost $100. That's what I'm saying. So that happens all the time.

Or, or the other option is he's a genius, an MIT-level genius that devised a foolproof perfect gambling plan that tricked the casinos out of money to the point where they didn't even know they were being tricked. And he left with pockets full of money, but with a complete lack of security, he was rolled in the streets by Hell's Angels for his pockets full of winnings with no one intervening. Even though he was winning a fortune in a casino, that casino didn't say, hey, keep an eye on that guy. Offer him a room for the night so he'll lose that fucking money back to us. Give him a trip out back. You know, all that stuff that casinos do when you win a bunch of money. None of that stuff. So what are the odds?

Which one has better odds of happening? All of those things or that one thing of him just being a moron and losing $100 stupid yeah and i'm gonna bet just my foolproof gambling system that i've devised is always bet on idiots being idiots so i'm gonna bet on this guy fucking up that's what i'm gonna bet on i bet i win a lot more than i lose just gonna say that i could if you could bet on people rather than sports and shit just bet on regular people's lives, we would be so fucking wealthy right now because I know you're going to fuck up. I believe in no one. If you believe in no one, who turns it around?

One out of 20 people actually turn it around and do something with their lives if they're like fucking up. Nobody turns it around. It just doesn't happen. Always bet. It's like if there's a football team that's one and fifth always bet against the browns it doesn't fucking matter yeah they might win one week you're gonna win they might not cover overall you're gonna win overall you're coming out on top yeah i did that one year in this pool i had just bet against the cardinals every week when they were terrible and i was like

i won 13 out of 16 games so go go fuck yourselves. That's it right there. So brilliant. The way to do it. So she asked him, what the fuck are we going to do now? We're out of money. We're in Laughlin. You've lost everything. I'm sorry.

Excuse me. You you you're the most successful gambler in the history of the town. And you were robbed. I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest that you lost the money. He said, what are we going to do? And he tells her, George says, well, we're going to rob Delbert, obviously. I mean, Jesus Christ, what the fuck else are we going to do here?

So that's his plan now? Yeah, duh. Like, how the fuck else are we going to do this? Obviously, he's got money. We don't. We'd like money. We need to take it from him. Take it from him.

I mean, obviously, I'm not going to get a job. I mean on lisa jesus christ two hundred dollars lisa lisa lisa go slow down for a minute here listen sweetheart he pets her head like a horse listen like she's the dumb one right yeah how stupid are you stupid obviously we'll rob him now Now, her being of, it sounds like at least average intelligence, she says, well, how are we going to get away with robbing someone who you know? Right. Because won't he just tell on you and then he knows who you are? Like, you know, like normal fucking people think like you can't just rob a guy you fucking know and have that not have any consequences.

That's just stupid. So we're going gonna rob him yeah but what's our dismount how are we getting out of that how are we do you have a plan to are you gonna are you gonna con him out of the money it's like a teenager killing her parents where are you going where are you going after that yeah after the baby goes into the dumpster then what then what how are you gonna stop the bleeding is what we're getting at what happens now so you don't just tie off an umbil a bill and everything start fucking walk away some of them do they go right back to the problem this is something there's a whole lining in there's a bunch of stuff

there's extra thoughts that have to be done is what we're saying it's like when you buy a chicken there's a lot of shit inside of it that you didn't ask for and you're not going to use but it's in there you know you mean a turkey and a chicken. Really? My whole chicken. There's gizzards and hearts. The neck is in there. Just like a turkey. Yeah.

Yeah. We were just making it the other night. And Sarah's like, why is this in here? I don't want this. Why is this all bagged? Yeah. This is weird. They don't even bag it.

It's just in there. You have to scrape it out. Yeah. You have to get a spoon and scoop it out. Like a fucking Cornish. But on the one hand, they do say whole chicken. So if it wasn't in there, then again, there are no feet or head. So it's not a whole chicken.

So I guess you can leave the fucking heart out. Where's the beak, you lying fuck? I want the beak. I eat the beak, damn it. I make beak chips and they're delicious. I pick the chicken out of my teeth with the beak. It's an old family recipe. You fry up the beaks, they get real tender.

They're crispy, though, but tender and light. The tongue is nice to chew on. It's not bad. It's like bubble gum. Poultry tortilla, we call it. Then you got a nice bubble gum afterwards. It's good. It's very good.

So George says, it's so funny because he didn't think that far ahead. He lied to Delbert, and then he was like, oh, that'll work. That's no problem. He has magical thinking where he thinks that everything's just going to work. So he was like, well, we'll rob him. And she's like, well, how are you going to rob a guy you know? And she said he thought about it for a second. He was like, hmm.

And he goes, well, I guess I'll just have to kill him. That's the solution. Right now, that's where you just came up with. Yeah, I guess I just have to kill him then. Yeah, you got a point. Yeah, good point. I'll kill him. That's better.

Yeah, good point. We'll go back. I'll see if he'll pay for gas money, and then I'll get a him. That's better. Yeah. Not a good point. I'll, you know, we'll go back. I'll see if he'll pay for gas money and then I'll get a job. That's not what he said. He said, I guess I'll kill him then. If I got, you're right.

You know what? You're right, honey. It is. We can't rob a guy. We know that's so fucking still got that. Now I see why I have you see, cause I get carried away with,

we got to kill him too. Obviously that's, that makes sense. So they leave Laughlin on December 2nd. So they were there for three days in Laughlin, which sounds god-awful horrible. And all he lost was $200. That's all he had. Pretty incredible.

Yeah, it's not bad that he just sat there seething the rest of the time. They leave to return to Arizona from Laughlin there December 2nd. On the road, while they're on the road, uh the uh haas they're all drinking a little bit by the way they're all putting a couple back you know while they drive because that's what you do when you're a hillbilly in 1994 you're driving a fucking van with a man you're gonna kill on the way home from laughlin better have some drinks and you have a criminal record and we can stack it all up again you're just you have dyslexia sudden dyslexia that's that's an issue so uh they're all but haas has drank the most alcohol delbert's the most

shit-faced at everybody they're like all drinking but they're drinking a little slower than delbert oh yeah let's drink let's drink and they'll have one sip for every three of his type of thing there they're trying to make sure he's good and liquored up uh now they also this is a fun trip it's a three and a half hour ride from vegas as we said that's why i wanted to make sure to get that in yeah uh because apparently the most of the way home as they're driving home uh george and delbert are arguing continually about how uh how george is going to pay delbert back that 200 oh boy like i don't know what his settlement was for. I don't know if it was for like $700 and he gave him $200 of it or what.

But the whole car ride, what's he going to come up with something over the course of the conversation of a way that he's going to make money now out of nowhere? Obviously, you're not going to get an answer out of him then. Well, how are you going to pay me back? I don't know. Why are you going to pay me back? I said I don't know.

Why are you going to pay me back? Are are we gonna do this for three and a half fucking hours dude it's a long trip that's the point that i'm looking at three and a half hours through northern arizona dark as fuck out it's awful here is an old man in the back seat asking you how you can pay me back how you gonna pay me back where's my money so they're arguing about it the whole time and he's saying i'll pay you back and he's going well how how are you gonna pay me back you don't even have a goddamn job with how many you know how many t-shirts that is two hundred dollars there's a rest area yeah i farted in baghdad arizona t-shirts i can get for that apparently they had to make a bunch of uh piss break stops because they're all drinking and

delbert's 63 and drinking so he's pissing a lot uh and uh also they want to purchase snacks too because you're drinking and you want to eat shit. And so they're getting snacks. Or Delbert's buying snacks, I should say. I don't think that they're buying any snacks. Now, at one of the stops, which was in Kingman, they stopped in Kingman, which is on the way back. Kingman is a horrible, horrible town. Just a terrible, awful den of meth just in the middle of the desert.

And the mountains, it's the worst place it's so fucking bad Colorado River is close by which is that's nice but Kingman itself is a piece of shit I'm sorry if you're from Kingman but you know you're making plans to escape and if you're not then you're just dead inside it's horrible there no one's like

someday I'm gonna get to Kingman no never been said ever they're like someday I'm going to get to Kingman. No. It's never been said. No. Ever. They're like, someday I'm going to get out of this fucking place. So they stop in Kingman at one point. Now, when they stop here, they're stopping Kingman and Delbert goes to piss. And I assume by shit, George takes a gun out from under the seat of his van and puts it in his pants. He had it stored under there the whole time. He puts it in his waistband and he turns to Lisa and asks if she's going to be all right with this.

You cool with this? Yeah. Which is, you know what? That is polite. I have to say, how many stories have we covered? Yeah. How many times does one person who wants to kill another person turn to the other person they're with and ask if they're cool with this it's not often it's usually they kill the other person either it's a plan or that that second person had no idea that this first person

was going to kill the third person but we don't even give that at the beginning of the show we don't go are you cool with this we tell them get the fuck out of here yeah she said he's are you cool with this which is super i gotta say almost polite honestly but if you're asking are you cool with me shooting an older man for that's not okay at that point murdering the cool with me murdering this dude who's right in front of getting social security right now uh she said she she said i'm cool but i do need a warning before you kill him like let me know so i can brace myself don't just be like driving along and you pop a fucking cap in his ass and i'll start freaking out what's our safe word so what's our safe word here uh jesus christ so uh turquoise so he turquoise just plugs so uh now george charts a course through the back roads.

He says will be a shortcut to Haas's house. When someone who owes you money wants to take you on a, quote, shortcut through the woods. To your house. Of the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night. Don't go there. Let's stick to the main highway. Thank you. But the one with the lights on it.

This is, fuck this. That's going to be the fastest way. We're going gonna do 30 down a dirt road let's not no shortcut big shortcut limit 70 it's stay here interstate time let's do it or whatever the fuck roads are up there there's some there's so you can go to the 17 and down or kingman comes across in the one whatever there's all sorts of shit so anyway uh he they go through they're driving through the woods and like i don't know if Delbert's suspicious or not. I don't think so, because he's still bitching about the money. He's still talking about the money.

$200 means a lot to him. I know in 1994, $200 is more than now. But Jesus, haven't you ever seen a Bronx Tale dude? Like, you got rid of him for the rest of your life now. You never have to deal with this guy again. And it only cost you $200. Like, that's a fucking bargain you just bought freedom is what you bought from this guy ever borrowing money from you again he'll avoid you forever he'll never talk to you for the

rest of your life if you don't fucking ask him for the money i watched empire records the other day the worst fucking plot ever to a movie it's a pile of shit it's nine grand that's the solution that that fixes this whole story that's it nine a pile of shit it's nine grand that's the solution that that fixes this whole story that's it nine grand nine grand and everything's fucking car that's everything solved done nine grand solved no but there's no story plot by the way nine grand is still there there are 30 people there none of those people have like a grandmother who's a little senile and has a bunch of money and won't mind cutting a check none of these people have any access none of them have the wherewithal to figure out how to get $9,000.

30 adults are pooled in a room, and none of them can figure out how to get $9,000. There's a 40-year-old manager of the store who wants to own the store. That man, with all that promise, doesn't have $9,000? Nothing. He's got nothing. Nothing doing. He has no access to anything. Also, I can't watch that movie with my kids later in life.

And I loved that movie, because they're not going to understand. You went to a store for what? For iTunes shit? Yeah. Why did you do that? They're not going to get that. So they had like vintage stuff. It was like old records.

No, that's not what it was. They were like $400 each. No, no. These were new releases. See? And they bought them and put... What did you do with them? How did you stick them in your phone?

You didn't. How do you stick stick them in your phone you didn't how do you stick a tape in your phone it's bigger than your phone what happened is that you would stick it in your jacket and walk the fuck out that's what you did that's why they don't exist okay yeah well it's easier to steal digital anyway so perfect so uh they're on the road and he uh he says at one point george just pulls over to to piss again it's another piss stop this is near camp wood road in yavapai county and what i that's why i triangulated this in where it was is basically it's near there but it's not quite there williamson is the closest town that's why. If anybody has any closer town, sorry. But Williamson it is. So at this point, Delbert exits the van and starts to piss behind it.

So he's going out to take another drunky old man piss. Drunky old man woods piss. So Lisa also starts to climb out of the van. But George motions to her with the gun stay in the van and pushes her back into the van yeah he's like turquoise shit's going down yeah exactly turquoise turquoise like oh sorry plugs her ears up so the van has windows in the rear it's an old you know like a molester van but it's got the rear windows with the ones with the shitty curtains on them you know what i mean so it has that and uh she watches through the back window which this is another weird thing if

if she's really that this is fucking her up she's not gonna watch it probably hearing it would be plenty it's a gun you're gonna know it's when it happened but she watches she says that uh that george walked up quietly uh from behind up to Delbert while he's taking a drunken piss and put the gun right to his head at point blank range and shot him behind the ear while he was pissing. She said one shot. Delbert fell down. In his own piss. In his own piss, which is not the way you want to go out. Poor guy.

Poor fucking guy. Yeah, that sucks. Jesus. That's not the way you want to go out. Over $200. it's really nice i don't know delbert's past but judging by his age he might have been a korean veteran korean war veteran this type of thing or whatever just a guy who's lived a life uh now he's gonna fucking you know fall it would be shot in a puddle of his own piss which is not not cool at least he got him drunk first that's that's nice but anyway that is not nice so uh uh at this

point he shot him in the head and then he uh he he takes delbert's body and drags him off to the side of the road uh and and to some bushes and kind of shoves him into some bushes basically just like whoop and it's dark out so it's like all gone now you know in the daytime it's a little different but at night i don't see it anymore also when you drag a lifeless that is the heaviest shit on earth that's going to be a heavy when they're not helping at all no that's oh it's fucking horrible it would probably be easier if someone was fighting back at least they're not dead weight it'd probably be easier you can maybe use their momentum yeah something i guess i'm trying to think of like you know wrestling around when you're kids with like your little brother or something and pull him that way so uh he uh he drags him off to the side throws him in the bushes which in the dark he might as well thrown

him down a you know a bottomless pit in the dark throwing him by the bushes uh so he throws him there uh he comes back to the car so lisa watches this through the window and then she wash watches as george comes back to the car carrying delbert's wallet watch and jewelry like he's got all his the body stripped him down got all of his shit and uh they get back in the van and like nothing happened all right there we go like they got their drive-throughru order all set, and they got the fries. The fries, onion rings, too. All right. Let's take off.

We're going. They drive away in his van. They drive for about five minutes, and out of nowhere, George says, shit, I forgot to get his keys. Fucking forgot his keys. Damn it. Turns it around. Slams on the brakes.

You turns the van. This is, by the way, not advisable murder behavior. No. If you're looking not to get caught, anyway. So he cranks a U-turn on this van, goes back around, has to find the damn keys, and returns to the murder scene, which you want to be seen more than once there. Both of them look for the body, which they have a hard time finding because it's on the side of a dark dirt road.

They're like, did we pull over here or 10 feet up there? Which bushes do we throw them and it's all dark spot yeah where's the piss spot and then where's the drag probably found him by drag marks i would think that would be the easiest way i would think uh yeah yeah so uh they end up looking for uh the body lisa ends up spotting it uh spotting delbert's body or him and then returns to the returns to the van to tell him like oh i found the fucking body holy shit yeah he's right over here so uh george comes over uh he comes back to the van and asks for the gun uh when he george goes over looks at him to go get the keys and lisa goes back to the van and then george comes back and says grab me that gun from out under the seat again and she said why and she goes i don't think he's dead oh boy by the way uh just i don't think he's fucking dead he survived a motorcycle accident he may be like and so he said he's

still he's not dead back there so then he goes back there with the gun with delbert and uh fucking uh delbert pops up out of nowhere like fucking Tupac. No. And said, who shot me but your punk didn't finish. About to feel the wrath of a man. No, he didn't do that at all. Oh, jeez. He didn't do that at all. That would have been amazing, though, if Delbert popped up and was like, ah. He's throwing Tupac lyrics at him.

So, no, he pops up. And no, he doesn't. He is shot again. Sorry, Delbert. But Delbert is shot again in the head by George. And then he feels, first of all, too, after the first one, he'd think maybe put a couple more in there just to make sure. He's killing him anyway. If you're driving away right now, just fucking finish it.

You might as well. That might be the best way to die, though. In the middle of a drunk piss. In the middle of the woods. That feels so good. If that first shot got you, though. Yeah, if that does it yeah that's someone put a 357 behind your head and fucking so humane barn door to your forehead that would

be a that would be a decent way to go i'll take it that's not bad actually as far as you know murder being murdered goes if you have to be murdered i guess that's something that's fucking grade a easiest way out yeah so lisa lisa says she heard the second shot uh after he went to you know go but to go shoot him uh then they get back in the van and they drive uh where do they drive to their home no to delbert's home they went to his house yeah they got his that's why they got his keys uh george enters the home uh they then they just start you know like it's like it's a flea market in there they just start going to town uh They steal several guns, a camera, whatever, anything of his property that has any value whatsoever. They steal.

They also unsuccessfully attempted to find his bank PIN number in order to get at his bank accounts. But they couldn't figure out his PIN number or find anything. Like they looked through all his paperwork, notebooks, if he had it written down anywhere no couldn't find it so they have no way of knowing that which is that must have felt like oh damn it you got his license look at his birthday it's all probably right there this is try one two three four and then try his birthday try zero zero zero zero hey it's worth a shot so uh lisa and george at that point sell sell Delbert's guns and jewelry at pawn shops and also flea markets. They go to flea markets and sell shit in pawn shops. Over the course of the next week, they do this under aliases, obviously aliases of David Flynn and Sharon Hughes are these two.

Neither of them named Charlie. Sorry, Jimmy. So he sells an American. It's very American. So George and Lisa. Then after that, they they sell all this shit and guns and jewelry and make a few bucks off of that. So then they go. This is wonderful, by the way. They say, hey, you know what we should do now? We should go to Vegas. Oh, no. Let's go to fucking Vegas, man. Pilfered money. We'll go to Vegas. Oh, no. Let's go to fucking Vegas, man. With their pilfered money. We'll go to Vegas. We have all this money now. Oh, Jesus.

Now I can... See, with $200, it's not enough of a sample size for my gambling system. Right. So what we'll do is we'll take all of this money that we've just acquired by murdering a man and stealing all of his worldly possessions and selling them at a cheap price. We're going to do that, and we're going to take that and piss that away on my stupid gambling system. So Lisa has to be like, Jesus Christ, man, this guy, he's killing.

I don't want to go to Vegas with an old man. We go to fucking Blotham with an old man. I don't want to drive back. I don't want to kill him. He's killing him. I don't want to steal shit. He's stealing shit. Like this.

This has to be a pain in the ass. Now he's going to blow all the money that we finally have on his stupid system. So they go there to test out his gambling system once again. They pay for a room at the Pioneer Hotel. In Vegas? And they're ready to go. I don't know if it's Vegas or Laughlin where they end up staying. Might be Laughlin.

It's cheaper. Now, December 3rd, 1994. This is while all this is going on in December. Because remember, they left Vegas. They left Laughlin on December 2nd. Right. So December 3rd. They're already back.

They're back in the next week. They're back. They're stole all the shit. And over the next week, sold all the shit off and then head back to Vegas a week later. Got it. OK. Now, December 3rd. This is we'll go back to then.

That's the day after they left Laughlin when Delbert's been dead for a day. Right. Two couples, now this sounds like a nice outing. Oh, boy. Two couples are going to the forest to look for Christmas trees.

It's like the Griswolds. It's so sweet. And the two couples together, and like, oh, we're going to have a nice natural Christmas trees, and our, oh, this is going to be great. They have their saws with them and everything. Have you ever done it they go out yeah it's terrible in northern arizona you will never find a tree that looks good no they're all ratty fucking woods

trees they're not they're enormous and will never fit in any fucking house no or or it's a piece of charlie brown tree that's half diseased it's's ridiculous. It's chewed by raccoons. I tried. I took my kids one year, and I was like, I'm so sorry, you guys. Back to Phoenix. We'll buy one in a lot. We'll buy one at Home Depot. Yeah, they'll be better.

You'll like them better. We did it once in New York when I was like 11 or something. I went with somebody who did it, and it was just, I don't know. It was the same thing as picking a tree out of a lot, except you sawed it off at the bottom. It was a Christmas tree farm. It wasn't a fucking like, we didn't go into the forest on our own. It was a bunch of yuppies walking around looking at fucking Christmas trees with their saw. Like, oh, look, I'm in nature.

And they're sawing it down. On a dude's ranch. Yeah, it's the stupidest shit ever. Who's been watering that tree for the past 30 years for this moment. Yeah, hey, finally. And then you're going to complain that 70 bucks. So these two dollars a year that it took me to grow that fucking son of a bitch. So these two couples look for Christmas trees.

They pull off on a dirt road in Yavapai County to look for Christmas. Let's just pull off in the middle of nowhere. We'll find trees. No, it'll be out there. Oh, it off in the middle of nowhere. We'll find trees. No one will be out there. Oh, it's going to be so cute. We'll take pictures. Ah, God. It's the worst.

Imagine how many pictures would be on fucking Instagram and Facebook and shit if this happened today with these people. Ah, we're out here. It'd be everywhere. Look, it's a fucking forest animal of some kind. So they'd be doing that. They'd take their fucking dogs with them. Anyway, these people, rather than find a Christmas tree, they find the corpse of Delbert Haas.

Merry Christmas. Which is way less fun than finding a tree. I assume the afternoon's over at that point. You know what? We're at no- Oh, the ride home. The spirit's over now, right? Like, we're not going back next weekend.

You had to get a fucking tree, didn't you, Dale? So we're going to Home Depot now, right? They had the same experience you did for different reasons. If you and your children found the corpse of a 63-year-old man, that shit would be over, I have a feeling, at that moment. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry, kids. Jesus, stay away from him.

I don't know how long he's been here. Jesus. They see he's been shot twice, bullet wounds located pretty much behind each ear. So, like, some mob execution shit here. Now, that's December 3rd, so they don't know anything about they just find this guy laying out there no wallet no id no nothing uh they they figure out who he is but they don't know anything else where he was what he was doing no fucking clue so you know the whole nine days goes by with their while this is happening they're selling off delbert shit and all that and finally on december 12 by while this is happening. They're selling off Delbert's shit and all that.

And finally, on December 12th, 1994, this is nine days after Delbert's discovered, Yavapai County detective, a guy named Danny Martin, gets a phone call from a Las Vegas police officer. And this police officer tells Martin that a woman named Lisa Kester approached a security guard at the Pioneer Hotel in Las Vegas. It's in Las Vegas and said that her boyfriend killed a man in Arizona. Now, she said that that a warrant he was already there was already a warrant out for him for something else. So he's easy to pick up. You don't know. Not like you have to have all your ducks in a row. Just grab him and you can throw him in jail and then go with the murder from there. Just grab him and you can throw him in jail and then go with the murder from there.

She says that she gave him. She also gave the Las Vegas police the gun that she said was used to kill us. That's a 32 caliber. And she said that the she also led the cops to credit cards belonging to Delbert that were found inside the white van belonging to George K. Inside the hotel parking lot wow so she is just giving them the whole shit on a silver platter uh she this is amazing the police officers and the security guards that were talking to her all said the same thing that if she appeared agitated that he wow this is amazing uh she said she appeared agitated to them and she said she'd not come forward sooner

because she feared that that he would kill her too but she said that she was super pissed off that fucking uh that he had blown all the money on his stupid gambling system that's what she's mad at she's like he did this and then he killed him against my goddamn will and then we come here and this son of a bitch is doing this shit and this shit and then he pisses all the money away. We finally have money. We could have paid the rent on time. Do you understand it? For one fucking month.

One month. We could have paid the fucking rent on time and he's got to gamble it away on his genius system. The accomplice shit I put up with for the past week and now he's going to do this shit? Back to the part where you killed a guy first. Let's talk about that. Then we'll get to what a dick he is thank you this isn't marriage counseling so uh yeah uh she then asked to be placed in the witness protection program uh she uh told the cops

what he looked like and uh also agreed to go with an officer to the police station to help plan the whole thing out uh this was about uh you know 10 days after the murder uh she's then told them she was upset that he gambled all the money away and and when uh when she confronted him about the whole situation and the murder and why did you do all this for nothing and you didn't have to kill people and blah blah blah he said to her quote you sometimes have to kill people to survive that's what he said you sometimes have to kill people and blah blah blah he said to her quote you sometimes have to kill people to survive that's what he said you sometimes have to kill people to survive i've survived 37 years never killed anybody not one you sometimes have to kill people to survive but the fucked up part is she's going to the cops they didn't pick her up and then she spilled the beans she's like a

drug dealer that got robbed by omar and is now going to the fucking cops to complain about it like indignant as shit too like he stole my shit no i want a full report on all the heroin capsules he he stole so much heroin and the cocaine i don't even want to get into it my losses are just ridiculous like that's what she's doing now you can't do that it's all in the game sweetheart can't. If you're going to be a murder accomplice, the guy might not be the best gambler. Like, sorry. He's probably not good at much, you know? It really doesn't seem like he is.

And we'll talk about it later. That's why you resort to murder. We'll talk about some things he thinks he's good at later. So they end up spotting him, George, leaving the hotel. They arrest him. They take him to the police station for questioning. Lisa had already been arrested for carrying a concealed weapon she gave them the 32 caliber and they arrested her for carrying a concealed weapon she said here's the murder weapon that he used and she said they said oh well you're under arrest because you had that in your pocket

you just pulled that out of your fucking waist so that's kind of funny uh now what was she supposed to do walk up to the security desk waving it around i got a 30 i mean jesus christ so detectives from yavapai county flew to las vegas on december 13th they found some shitty small airport in the middle of nowhere up there on december 13th to interrogate george and lisa lisa gave a complete account of the events leading up to Haas's death. Everything we just said pretty much is what she told them. He, George, on the other hand, spoke briefly with detectives, and as soon as they started asking about murder shit, he invoked his Miranda right and said, I want a goddamn attorney. Really?

Which is smart on his part. That's good. Don't. Yeah. So he does that. She gets arraigned finally, and she is held on $167,000 bond for Lisa. Now, December 29th, 1994, a Yavapai County grand jury indicts both Lisa and George, both of them with premeditated first degree murder, felony first degree murder, armed robbery,

residential burglary, theft, trafficking in stolen property, and conspiracy. That's a lot. She's like, no, no, you guys don't get it. He spent all the money. So it's his fault now. So it's clearly not me. So now I'm not involved anymore.

I got mad at him and told on him, so now I'm cool, right? You guys don't have this case without me. That's how it works now, yeah. I'm cool. It's fine. It's all good. I'm just going to go home. I'll be seeing you guys now.

Don't worry about it. So September of 1995, I'm sorry, February of 1995, the state attorney files a notice that he will be seeking the death penalty against both of them. Oh, Jesus. Both of them seeking the death penalty. Now

it's going to be, I don't see a jury in the war or a judge in Arizona. It's not. Both of them seeking the death penalty. Now, it's going to be obvious. I don't see a judge in Arizona. It's not the jury. It's the judge. I don't see a judge on earth giving her the death penalty. You don't? No. Even in Arizona?

Not a woman. If it was a man, yes. That's one thing that women get a leg up on in society. If you're getting any advantages, here's one of them. It's that you're less likely to be sent to death to death you just are enjoy 70 cents on the dollar it's yeah that's that's the trade-off but that's what it is it's you you are much less like you have to do some seriously horrific like shit to show you're a depraved fucking animal before they'll put a woman to death row the only ones here i think are one murdered her husband and in a terrible way uh-huh well that

one that one's not even death uh okay she got life yeah it's tough here yeah i think there's two on death row in arizona one of them murdered a fucking kid that's what i mean horrible that's what i'm saying it's shit like that that those are the people those are the women or your eileen or your you know carla faye you know like all that shit uh it's not usually someone who was standing by while her boyfriend killed somebody else. That's a tough one. The other one murdered her husband

who was in a fucking wheelchair. That's, again, that's some aggravating, aggravating both legally and literally circumstance. And inside. Yeah, that'll make a judge go, you son of a bitch. You bitch. But any, yeah, you look at a woman who's 28

and her boyfriend's a 40-year-old scumbag and he shot somebody and you're like, yeah, she wouldn't have done this on her own. She wouldn't have thought to do this. She shouldn't have gone along with it, but she also wouldn't have thought to do it. But it gives you if you're the state. Goddamn, the leverage it gives you with her. You don't want to testify. OK, well, we're going to put you up for the death penalty then, even though you sat in the van and uh you realize we're in fucking arizona that makes people talk usually and uh and it made her talk uh september 1995 she enters a plea agreement with the state uh this plea agreement require required her to verify uh all previous statements made about her uh that they were truthful and also require her to quote appear at any proceedings including trial upon request of the state and

testify truthfully to all questions asked so pretty fucking basic shit she got like a mob deal yeah she's gonna flip on her boss here and that's what's gonna happen here singing sugar yeah absolutely it mandated that she uh quote complete uh cooperate completely with the state of arizona in the prosecution of george and uh it also allowed the state to dishonor the agreement, to renege on the agreement if she violated any term or condition, which is all normal shit, all very normal. In return for this, she was charged with facilitation to commit first degree murder, facilitation to commit residential burglary and facilitation to commit theft slash trafficking and stolen property.

to commit theft slash trafficking and stolen property. They're class five and six felonies and are way less significant in penalty than your first degree murderers and your, you know, all of that shit. Premeditated murder. And your conspiracy to commit murder and your premeditated and your residential burglary

and all that type of shit. Those are real harsh. Those have some stank on them. That stings a little. Premeditated murderers got some English on that shit. That screams long sentence. That's a tough one here. Also, they examined the.32 caliber pistol she handed over.

They recovered two bullets and expended cartridges from there. They compared them. They did a ballistics thing, and they said that the pistol matched that one, so the bullets match up. So now they have ballistics the pistol matched that one. So the bullets match up. So now they have ballistics, eyewitness identification. You know, he's all sorts of people saying that he sold them all sorts of this guy shit. It's a pretty strong case, I would say, at this point.

Court shit going on here as the trial date approached. The trial date approached, and after the state's attorney and George's original court-appointed attorney, they already were engaged in a bunch of pretrial shit that was going on. They were already doing flurries of briefs and all that shit, motions. And at that point, George decided he didn't like the attorney anymore and just refused to cooperate with him anymore. He just said, I'm not talking to you anymore. Just no. Not you. Nope.

But I'm trying to defend you and keep you from dying. No, thanks. Nope. Just don't like you. Okay. Real good guy here. Uh, so the trial judge at that point was forced to appoint a new counsel for him, which delayed the trial nearly a year because then the new counsel has, you have to give him a shitload of time to get all caught up on everything, figure out his own briefs and his own things he can do and have his own angle and strategy on it and it's a whole it's a whole thing this basically broke down to the first lawyer was linda williamson uh she was appointed to him uh she had five years of significant experience in criminal law she said williamson williamson yeah exactly yeah exactly lisa linda williamson perfect she's like yeah i know um it's me yeah that's fine uh she uh

she also had never tried a capital murder case though so that's tough so williamson asked a guy named james bond who was what james bond yes james the fuck is going on here of course if you if you're gonna have to hire an attorney you hire james bond i feel like that's the best thing we can do here so they hire james, who is literally an experienced criminal attorney, to serve as the second chair. He would be focusing on mitigation and sentencing because they know this fucking guy is going to get convicted. There's no way out of it. They said that Bond's actual involvement in the case was minimal because, obviously, he's a very busy man. He was just there for the pussy.

Yeah, he's there for the pussy. He banged williamson and lisa kester and then he went back somewhere else and did some other shit it was shaking and stirring martini yeah yeah so uh williamson the original lawyer filed a bunch of pre-trial motions including one that requested a rule 11 pre-screening psychiatric evaluation and uh the the court appointed dr daniel barack wasserman okay it sounds like mad libs at this point the name said these are directly out of arizona fucking court records this is not like some silly onion article this is real the attorney james bond wanted dr dan okay daniel wasserman what are you seeing not a guy whose middle name is barack right not at all how funny is that especially not

rocking a wasserman now there's little kids that are barack wasserman because people that but not in 19 fucking 95 who the fuck named their kid daniel barack wasserman in 1990 fucking wow okay so sorry jewish girl with a black guy first name weirdest thing i've ever heard in my life so but he went by barry you know he did you know he did well daniel he went danny dr danny so uh the poor the court appointed him uh he found that that george did not suffer from an uh from any mental illness or defect uh and he found him competent to stand trial uh so uh they said he didn't suffer from did not does not appear to suffer from any uh in fucking uh any mental illness or defect he found that k are understood the nature of the

proceedings against him and was able to assist in the defense he did diagnose him with uh dysthymic dysthymicmic disorder i don't know what that is and and and a rule out diagnosis like he said he's not a paranoid uh personality disorder he doesn't none of the shit that makes you not criminally responsible none of that he doesn't hear voice doesn't disassociate he doesn't do any of that shit and uh all of that stuff here now uh george contends that linda williamson didn't do her job right. He said she, quote, utterly failed to provide the evaluating doctor with any information relevant to her client's competency or his social, psychological or medical history. They said that the counter to that, the lawyer's counter was, quote, George K.

provides no support for his contention at the time at the pre-trial proceedings in his case said he's full of shit we try to help this fucking guy he doesn't fucking cooperate and then he says he doesn't want to deal with me anymore what the hell do you want from me uh this williamson uh uh investigated leads interviewed witnesses you know did all the shit to defend a murderer in a murder trial and concluded that the case would be fucking impossible to win. And her best option would be delay, delay, delay. And we'll tell you why in a second.

She hoped that Kester, Lisa Kester, because she's pregnant with his child and all this, she thought that, well, she said either that or she figured that she would probably start using drugs again. figured that she would uh uh probably start using drugs again if she got out on bond would start using drugs again take off and not be available to testify she's like if we give lisa time yeah she'll fuck up and go off on the win literally that's what it was like she was betting like you were she was she was literally betting on a human being to destroy her life and ruin that of her newborn child as well amazing that's what she was betting on she's like we wait a while, she'll go off on the fucking lamb on drugs. You know that shit's going to happen. So this is what a sad group we're dealing with here. That's their Hail Mary.

That's their Hail Mary. And then, hey, at that point. Hey, all bets are off. Hey, you know, she said that, but she was the one with the gun. I mean, there's nobody's word but his to say that or hers to say it, and she's not there. nobody's word but his to say that they're hers to say and she's not there so june 1996 he uh seeks to remove her uh remove williamson and replace her with james bond as lead counsel because who fucking wouldn't fuck yeah you want james bond you don't you know this is fucking incredible

any chance that you get to be defended by james bond you take it i don't care if he's the word i don't care if he's got it's still pretty cool you get those midday uh lawyer james bond lawyers i don't care james bond that's cool that's my guy uh yeah that's that's fucking amazing the court allowed uh allowed her to withdraw and directed bond to remain his second chair and because he was he said i'm too busy to do this i'm not going to be the main guy and they appointed another guy as lead counsel. By the time this guy, David Stoller, had been appointed, he'd been practicing criminal law for 30 years as both a prosecutor and a defense attorney, had taken 50 felony cases to jury trial, including more than one capital case. This is the guy you want defending you in a murder trial.

You're going to lose. He knows how to make it whatever. In August, the trial allowed James Bond to withdraw. He's's like i have way too much pussy to go get sorry uh and they gave him another goddamn lawyer uh this guy had like two years he had less than two years experience as a lawyer that they gave him so now he's got an old man and a young guy he's got a real like buddy cop movie situation going on here uh so january of 1997 the defense filed numbers of motions to get applications for funds to investigate uh shit because you have to apply to be able to investigate your side if you're you know a public uh you've got a d uh a public defender so uh also they

ended up giving them money for that but the judge deferred ruling on on funds related to mitigation he's already trying to get mitigating circumstances and he hasn't even been found guilty yet. So they're like, why don't you be convicted first, and then we'll see if we'll give you money to figure out how big of a piece of shit you are. Somebody's really telling him this shit's over. Yeah, that's the thing. Right away. Well, what they end up doing, because of what they dropped Lisa's charges to, they also have to drop his conspiracy charge. Really?

Because if they dropped her conspiracy charge, who is he conspiring with? You know what I mean? So if he's conspiring with your witness and she's not charged with conspiracy too, that seems wrong. So it doesn't matter too because you have all sorts of murder. So they end up doing that. Now, one juror was excused as a result of the death disqualification questioning. Okay. This juror, what they'll do is they'll ask you, and this is the thing.

The jury isn't responsible in Arizona for giving the penalty, the judges. So the jury, all they're doing is knowing that they're convicting you and knowing there's a chance the judge could give you the death penalty. Got it. They're not saying, can you yourself write down death? I'm going to kill this fucking guy on a piece of paper. That's a chance the judge could give you the death penalty they're not saying can you yourself write down death i'm gonna kill this fucking guy on a piece of paper that's a lot more responsibility than just to go i'll say he's guilty and then it's in the judge's hands it's not my fucking problem so most people here are like yeah i can figure it out it's fine you know even if they're not death penalty proponents are like well it's not me giving it to him so whatever uh but this person kind of is confused about the whole thing and not i just

wanted to have this in here because it's kind of weird because i we've had questions about this before about jurors and whether they believe in the death penalty or not people send me very intricate detailed questions sometimes and this was one yeah don't send those to jimmy because he's gonna go what the fuck are you talking about thankful i get dog pictures i have no idea what you're saying oh it's so much more entertaining. The judge says to this juror, so we're talking about whether or not you had any personally held beliefs, philosophical opinions, or religious convictions that would get in the way of or make it difficult or impossible for you to be fair and impartial as a juror, knowing that the death penalty was a possibility. And the juror said, quote that would be i would have reservations about an action in which the death penalty might be imposed or could be imposed and the judge said

and it would get in your way then being of being a fair and impartial juror as the process continued he's trying to get a yes or no let's move this shit along so this juror says it might and then he goes again depending on what you you know how much of a factor became evidence and testimony and what you have then i don't know so he's really waffling the judge says okay like slowly and then the juror says but it would not be a hands-down opposition to the death penalty as such he says but you know i'm you know i could do it so the judge says i understand what you're saying and of course at this point we're looking for whether or not you can work in this trial as a fair and impartial juror to both the defendant and the state. Juror says, I understand.

Judge says, OK, let me let me try it this way, which means you're an idiot. Let me say, hey, idiot, let me see if you understand English. If I say it like this to what to what you know right now, knowing your personal opinions and beliefs and what you know, job of the juror to be, because this is a possibility of a death penalty case at this point. Would you like me to excuse you from jury duty in this case? You cannot get any more clear than that. Are you trying to get out of this shit? Are you?

What do you want from me? And the juror then says, I think that would probably be fair to the to the state and to the defense, both really, since that reservation is honestly held, and the judge said, okay, okay. And then the juror says, I'm going to accept what you tell me. I'm going to thank you for spending now a day and a half with us and putting

up with us and all of our questioning, and I'm going to excuse you from the juror with our sincere appreciation. Have a good one, you confusing, time wasting asshole. We'll put you back in the hopper to get you back in here for more years. In a less complicated case. We'll get somebody who stole some shit from a store or something.

We'll get you in here for that traffic trial. So at trial, the defendant's entire case here, George's whole case, is centered on the fact that he says Lisa killed Delbert, not him. Lisa went out while he was pissing and put two behind his ear. Which seems really as likely as him winning all that money and then being robbed as soon as he leaves the casino. The problem with that is that she has no reason. There is no reason. There's nobody that has a reason other than him.

Especially with his history of scumbaggery. It's fucking ridiculous. And then he's also saying, now she's trying to frame me for murder. This girl's out of control. She's killing people, robbing them, then trying to frame innocent people. She's a fucking menace. Get her off the streets. Is there, do you think, a possibility that somebody was framed for murder?

Oh, yeah. Not just like... Oh, it happens. Not to get away with it themselves or to get... Just out of revenge? a possibility that somebody was framed for murder as like, not just like what happens, not to get away with it themselves or, or to get just out of revenge, just as a fucking joke. Oh, as a joke.

I don't know about as a humorous joke, but I guarantee you, I guarantee you Scientologists have framed somebody sitting in jail for murder right now. I guarantee you they have just sitting back laughing. Yeah. So if I'm ever like arrested for murder, it's the Scientologists that are pissed off for me saying this. So keep an eye out for that. I didn't fucking do it.

It was Tom Cruise. I promise. It was Tom Cruise. It was Kirstie Alley. And that other fucking miscavige weirdo. Anyway, moving on. Sorry. Sorry.

Sorry, Scientologists. I'm just very, I think that that has for sure happened. Probably. That somebody did it as a joke and think it's fucking hilarious that somebody's in there for a life. I'm sure they have. It can't not have happened at that point. Just with the system that we have. Oh, it had to have happened.

Yeah. All you need to do is drum up two witnesses and you don't even have to have any evidence so you can convict somebody. So Lisa testifies, obviously, to what we told you before she said and george testifies too on his own behalf oh boy he is indignant boy he is you're kidding me uh you got to be it was all her i don't know what the hell she's talking about this is bullshit did i ever show you my article for the nra i could have been a genius stephen king shockingly after all that evidence and his only defense being she did it the jury convicts him of all fucking charges.

All charges guilty of first degree murder under both premeditated and felony murder theory. So he is fucked with a capital F is basically what that means. Lisa testified that he also she said he took his house keys after the murder, entered the home, stole everything. She did the whole fucking thing. She laid out in detail also they had pawn shop receipts witness testimony establishing that uh you know the whole thing of every step they basically made a timeline and a map of then he went here and sold this gun and then he went here and sold that necklace and then he went here and did that it's ridiculous uh overwhelming evidence plus of eyewitness kind of difficult

problem uh they also presented forensic evidence with the the ballistics and all that shit uh yeah guilty of all charges now after that uh uh he says after he's found guilty he says that he wants to expedite the sentencing process and he wants to get this shit over with now kill me get it over with do whatever you got to do but do it fucking fast all right i got places to go people to fucking trial i'm writing a novel so the judge schedules uh conferences uh for pretty close about seven weeks after the trial ended which is pretty fast uh he agrees to continue george does the initial sentencing conference uh because they continue it until june 6th they delay it for like a month and he's pissed

off but he's like all right fine he agrees reluctantly to allow a court-appointed mitigation specialist mary duran to begin working with him this is a person that can keep him from being killed in the in the you know state by the death penalty uh the they had an aggravation mitigation hearing scheduled for June 24th of 97 with sentencing July 8th. And this woman, the specialist, wanted to interview him, his family members and others in order to discover genetic, physical and or psychological impairments that might explain George's behavior, thus provide mitigating evidence that might affect whether the death penalty or life sentence should be imposed all fair shit that you should probably be doing in this thing and uh after she explained that to him in a very rational calm way uh that made a lot of sense and anybody would want to do he refused to cooperate completely told her to go fuck herself and said i'm not talking to you bitch and walked away. I thought you wanted this expedited, man. No, I do.

Just not with you because I'm an uncooperative asshole. So they had the sentencing conference. His lawyer, George's lawyer, said that the Duran woman wanted at least 90 more days to evaluate him since he won't talk to her. So it's going to take a while. He says, fuck that. I want to proceed immediately. I don't want to work with this fucking lady and I'm not talking to her. So it's going to take a while. He says, fuck that. I want to proceed immediately. I don't want to work with this fucking lady and I'm not talking to her and let's keep going.

So the judge says that he's competent and if he wishes to proceed and doesn't want to do that, he's been judged as competent to go through. So it's up to him. It's his fucking funeral. Quite literally. So they said, fine, let's go. So they move it all along. They have they they have they ask him again are you sure you don't want more time to look into this and he said

fuck no let's do this shit uh no matter how long sentencing was delayed he will not cooperate with her you could 10 years i won't cooperate with this fucking lady so they go on with july 15th 97 and sentencing he has competency claimed on this is this is funny some of the shit he says first of all his mitigating factors we'll get into in a second but one of them is hilarious one of them is that he's too smart uh first of all he uses intelligence as a mitigating factor but the wrong way okay they you use intelligence as a mitigating factor when you're too stupid to know that what you're doing is wrong or too stupid to assist with your defense or too whatever it's too stupid to do anything uh this guy says he's so smart that's a mitigating

factor because he could he could do a lot in society with a brain like his that's the that's a mitigating factor you tell me he dyslexic-ed it? Yeah. A little backwards. Don't kill me because I have a lot to contribute to society. Like my long criminal record punctuated with a vicious murder. I really, everybody needs me out there. Unbelievable.

Then at one of his preliminary hearings for sentencing, he refers to, he says that he had a heart attack. He has a chance to speak at one point george says he had a heart attack two months before haas's murder and he says oh boy buckle the fuck up because i normally don't like give people's whole you know soliloquy of their bullshit the murderers but when it's crazy i can't not tell you exactly what he said in a court of law mind you uh i guess he's trying to. He says this is him. This is him saying about why he doesn't want to cooperate and he just wants to expedite

sentencing. This is him trying to plead his point here. Quote, I think one of the points that needs to be brought out in all this is that none of us know what is right. One of the things that God didn't instill in human beings is the ability to judge. We can't see around the corner. I think that an example of this is to be found in the Bible where it says that every hair on your head is counted. I've been grabbed by the balls and drug here by destiny.

And I don't know what's going to be around the corner any more than anybody else here does. But I think it's important to the court that the court understands just a little of where I'm at and hear it from me instead of a specialist or the counsel or the pre-sentence report lady. And that's really all I have to say. Thank you. Okay. Now that I'd like to quote the Bible. Now I was drugged by the ball. He quoted the Bible in one sentence and then said, I've been grabbed by the balls and drug here by destiny, which sounds like a Joe dirt line. That sounds like a line David Spade and Joe Dirt would have said. I've been grabbed by the balls and drug here by destiny. Or something that one of the wild and wonderful whites of West Virginia would say.

Hank the Third would say that. That is an incredible quote. That's an amazing quote. Oh, it gets better. At another hearing, this is two days later, he addresses the court after this is after all the aggravating, mitigating evidence has been presented. They said, do you have anything to say for yourself at the end? Yes. He said, absolutely.

Stood right up. And he says, OK, OK. Quote, I've been convicted of a murder, premeditated, a murder to rob the people of Arizona through their laws, say perhaps I should be murdered, premeditated, by the state. An eye for an eye. The death penalty, it's now called. He's getting philosophical. He said, that kind of amazes me because I've lived in a dorm full of men for two years, nine months, and it's rare to see them agree on anything, even as bad as the food is. I have to ask myself, what reason could I possibly have that 70% of the people would understand?

What reason did I have for that? 16 jurors found me guilty. What reason did I have for the judge passing sentence on me? I didn't have one. I had a lot of reasons. What the fuck is he talking about? This gets weirder. me guilty what reason did i have for the judge passing sentence on me i didn't have one i had a lot of reasons what the fuck is he talking about it gets worse this gets weirder this goes somewhere trust me i didn't have a reason i have a lot of i have a lot of i had a lot of reasons but i was seeking something deeper something profound yet simple something that would reach the very center

of the people involved four days ago i still didn't have one. And the reason that I was seeking, I haven't been able to sleep very well lately. And I awoke about an hour into the 4th of July, restless, still wondering what I would say or do on this very day. They're like, will you fucking get to it? He then says, this is the point he's getting to. So I reached over and picked up the Bible. I don't read the Bible a lot, but I was given the reason. It was profound and simple and astonishingly from the very source of the people of Arizona, find an eye for an eye. This source is, of course, the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 19. But before I reached the verse 21, an eye for an eye, I asked you to back up and look at verse 15.

verse 21 an eye for an eye i ask you to back up and look at verse 15 he is going off and i quote one witness shall not rise up against a man but by the mouths of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established so what he's saying is one bitch well i was fucking yeah ain't enough to say i did shit you need a bunch more motherfuckers to say I fucking did it before I fucking did it. That's that's in redneck translation. I speak redneck. Meanwhile, he said 16 jurors. Is that true? Well, the four alternates.

Oh, OK. Then it gets worse. OK. He said he gives that Bible quote. Then he says, beware of one witness wherein the source the people use. Beware of one witness that would lie or excuse me, that would die if she didn't lie. Beware of one witness who is in her pre-sentence report on page nine said she spent all her thousands of money that she received on drugs before she met me. Then lied during the trial, saying I gambled away four or five thousand dollars of her money.

$4,000 or $5,000 of her money. Wow. Beware of one witness that offered to sell her soul to Detective Dan Martin for $100 a week in an apartment until the trial. But only after the tape recorder was turned off did she say that. She didn't know the video camera was running in the video room. On March 13, 1997, 10,000 people in Arizona saw seven UFOs over Phoenix. 11 people came forward with a videotape and the government says it didn't happen.

Yet one witness, one ex-drug addict, one witness staring down the barrel of a death penalty herself, but is getting probation. One witness is good enough for the government to kill me. Somebody needs to wake up and change the channel because there's definitely something wrong with that picture there's one

other thing i'd like to say and that's that i really regret not going to the authorities when this initially happened thank you that's the only thing he needed to say the amount of numbers in that was incredible okay out of all that shit he needed to that he said all he needed to say was i really regret not going to the authorities when this initially happened thank you none of the other shit they're all sitting there going what the fuck is he he's comparing biblical shit to his situation and he's bringing up the phoenix lights he's bringing up the phoenix lights saying oh there's videotape and 10 000 people people saw it, but nobody believes them. But one one drug addict piece of shit can call me a goddamn thing.

And then you fucking don't kill me. God damn it. Well, you didn't bring up the Hale-Bopp comment. No shit. This is insane. So he's he has his own logic. I'll say that about him. So Jesus Christ for sentencing, the judge established judge said that the state established two aggravating factors beyond a reasonable doubt, previous of conviction of the previous conviction of

a serious offense, which is a first degree burglary conviction, also committing the murder for monetary gain is another reason. He said that they found no statutory mitigating factors and found the presence of only one non-statutory mitigating factor, which is that he says that he is very important in the life of, quote, one of his children. So junior, presumably. So the judge says, yeah, that's great and all, but not quite enough of a mitigator. He offered seven mitigating circumstances, as a matter of fact. You know, George did. He said one was intoxication, causing an inability to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct. Two, intoxication not rising to the level of establishing the statutory mitigator.

Three, his military record. I was in the service. Good God, I've served this country. I can kill whoever the fuck I want. I can kill any old man on the side of any highway I feel like. You're telling me I can go to another country, kill everybody there, but when I come back, I can't kill one? I can't kill any old man on the side any highway i feel like you're telling me i can go to another country kill everybody there but when i come back i can't kill one i can't kill one old man for a few bucks who gives a shit he was sick anyway so uh for the disparate disparity in sentences between him and her him george and lisa well because it's your idea you pulled the trigger

there's a lot of reasons for that and she told she went to the cops. He says his poor health, which we haven't established, even if he did have that heart attack or not. Also, his intelligence and ability to contribute to society and his devotion to his youngest child. All the others can go fuck their mothers, but the youngest one, whatever. And the judge says after weighing, aggravating and mitigating factors closely, he decided you, sir, may fuck off death penalty for you. Oh, you're getting the death penalty. Yeah. Death sentence. Finding that failing to cooperate with he's 10. He told him this to failing to cooperate with the Duran pre sentencing lady, as you called her. He hampered his own ability to present mitigating evidence that might have reduced his sentence to life imprisonment.

He hampered his own ability to present mitigating evidence that might have reduced his sentence to life imprisonment. So he basically said, because you're such an uncooperative idiot douchebag, you're going to fucking death penalty. If you would have just not been an asshole for five minutes, everything would have been fine. Because you're so not smart when you accuse yourself of being just brilliant off the charts to contribute to society. Mitigating factor. Brilliant. That's like if you kill Thomas Edison, none of that. We're not gonna have light like that's how fucking yeah no oh boy mid-world war ii einstein you know no

this is death penalty for first degree murder and felony murder 35 years in prison for armed robbery and trafficking and stolen property 25 years in prison for the residential burglary charge and just under six years for the theft charge. All sentences were aggravated and consecutive, which doesn't matter because you have a death penalty, except for the theft charge, which they ordered to be served concurrently with the trafficking and stolen property, but consecutive to the residential burglary. So not altogether. May 1999, George's mother dies. Oh, no.

So that's, well, bad for her, but fuck him because he's going to be sad so good. She dies. I feel bad for her, but not him. 2000, he is denied an appeal. The U.S. Supreme Court denies his appeal without comment. Oh, they got nothing to say about it. Nah, fuck it. We'll talk about the habeas one in a minute real quick, but that's the one that's interesting.

But he had a few appeals here, and he tried to go up to the Supreme Court and they heard it and literally just said no with no comment. How frustrating does that turn their chairs back around all the way to the Supreme Court? And they go, no, no. You go, but why? And they go, no, no comment. And they just be gone. Shoo you off. So in 2005,

some of this shit starts where he wants habeas court relief. He's talking about that juror now, saying that juror should not have been excused. That was somebody that, you know, should have been on the jury. All sorts of shit going on with that.

They delay. 2007, a judge delays his execution, gives him a stay because of the habeas appeal that he's got going on. In 2007, he says that a few things. He says the main thing is his attorneys were incompetent.

He says that the attorney failed to conduct an immediate and thorough investigation and failed to seek funds for expert witnesses. He claims that if they would have right away gone to the casino video, He claims that if they would have right away gone to the casino video, he literally says you could have gotten casino surveillance footage from there and might have been able to obtain evidence showing that George and Lisa didn't, as she testified, visit Bucky's Casino after the murder, which is impressive. Yeah, it is. Bucky's Casino. They've been there before, actually. It's a piece of shit in the mountains. which is in prescott bucky's casino there i've been there before actually it's a piece of shit in the mountains uh so uh uh she said that that would show that to show that she she's a liar because a lot of his other shit is saying that uh uh did you do comedy there no oh fuck no all

right god damn it no i'm gonna drive up there god awful comedy show fuck no i stopped there like i forget we were on the way back from somewhere like want to stop there not really there was that mountain scumbag from prescott that tried to book comedy shows. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A little turd nugget. Yeah, that little douchebag. Yeah. Told him to fuck himself.

Yeah. So he was a bit of a dick to me. Told him to fuck himself. Shit. Prescott cunt. So he's saying that this video would have shown that she was a liar completely exonerating him because she might have mistaken one casino in the middle of nowhere for a different casino in the middle of nowhere. They obviously the state obviously says it's speculative to posit that this video would change the entire course of everything else that we've presented.

And the court agrees with that. And the court agrees with that. Also says the medical examiner says that this is so weird that the trial counsel didn't didn't use their own medical examiner for autopsies enough, which because the fact that she testified. This is so silly. According to Lisa, that George was standing, quote, right behind Delbert when he was shot, when George fired the first shot. And George argues that an independent pathologist would have informed them that the bullet came from a significantly left angle, entering almost horizontally rather than from directly behind. That would have shown what a liar she is, because in the dark, she misjudged the angle of a gunshot in the dark. Out the back of a van while you're petrified so you know he would know i was a foot over this way so she's a fucking liar obviously did i mention what a drug addict she is they talk about her in the bible i can read this to you holy fuck also ballistics

experts saying that uh she didn't they didn't have their own ballistics experts look at it and they should have and it's a fucking it's it's two grooves in a right it's it is what it is man yeah that's one of those things medical examiner for certain things yeah they see different things but ballistics are pretty much ballistics it's not there there is some art to it but not as much as like anything else it's pretty i mean yeah it's very very uh established that the ballistics evidence is pretty solid, almost as solid as DNA. Yeah. It's very, very good evidence. And the examiner said that, the original examiner said one cartridge case and one bullet definitely were fired from the pistol.

And he couldn't identify or eliminate the other one because of damage. So that's pretty honest. Yeah. One of them was. So whatever. But then there was another one who did a re-examination of the re-analysis. And he said that there was different weights to the bullets, this guy, which was weird, but noted trace evidence on the cartridges.

So that might have affected the weight. So basically, this guy had the same thing, but they're trying to use this one little thing, this one little ballistic difference where he said the weight was slightly different, this other examiner, to say that this isn't right. But the bullet's damaged. The integrity of it's ruined.

You can't weigh it to know that it's a different weight. Yeah, so they tell him to go fuck himself. In October 2009, his first deal, his first habeas deal is put aside. Now, basically, you have to have, once your shit's exhausted, you have to have reasons to file habeas shit because it's like, you know, for relief,

post-conviction relief stuff. 2014, Arizona halts executions. They did. They had 116 people on death row when that happened. They hadn't. They still last one. They executed was in July of 2014. A guy named Joseph Wood.

And they fucked it up bad. His execution took two hours. Did it really? Who fucking I don't care what you did. You can't you can't torture people for two fucking hours, man. You can't do that. No, there's a lot. But as a state, we can't do that. We're no better if we're tort torture people for two fucking hours man you can't do that okay no there's a lot but as a state we can't do that we're no better if we're torturing people for two hours that's

not what you want that's not what i want to teach my kids when someone does something we put them in a room and torture them for two hours i can't remember that's good because we're nice people kill the real estate agent we're the good people yeah we're the good people uh yeah have the shit out of your arm for two hours so the there's two hours jesus christ they were experimenting with a cut they didn't even have a thing this is what i mean they weren't like oh shit this thing that's worked every time for 100 years didn't work all this stuff we shot him right in the head and he's still alive it's so weird that wasn't it the state was experimenting with a combination of drugs that didn't work quickly and effectively it's not a good word

to be using it in execution we're gonna fuck around a little we're gonna freestyle a little hold on no we're just gonna wing this one yeah we're gonna see how it goes i'm gonna throw my set list out do some crowd work man i'm just gonna do a little crowd work with your veins. Is that cool? Is that all right? That's some stuff I want to talk about. Let's see if it leads into any jokes. We'll see what happens. Some topical things. I want to talk about what happened in the news this week.

Jesus Christ, man. Yeah, that's fucking bad. So after that, a group of inmates filed a federal suit and they halted executions. A reporter who witnessed that execution said that it was, quote, very disturbing to watch like a fish on a shore gulping for air. At a certain point, you wondered whether he was ever going to die. That is fucking horrific. That's sorry.

That's terrible shit. We can't do that as a state. We got to at least figure out how to kill people efficiently. It's not that fucking hard. It's really not. People are fragile. Two hours. This guy.

It's crazy. The victim's family, Two hours, this guy, it's crazy. The victim's family, though, didn't mind so much. No, I'm sure they did. They said that it seemed like he wasn't even conscious after the first few minutes, and that the noises that everybody else said was struggling and gasping, they said sounded like snoring to them. I do remember them saying that. Yeah, which is kind of shitty, but I get it.

I get where you're coming from. That's fine. So, George is in of shitty, but I get it. I get where you're coming from. That's fine. So, George is in prison. Guess what he's doing? What? Writing books like a motherfucker. Get out of here. In 2000, he read a...

He shook it off. He read a copy of Plain Text by Nancy Mares, and he said it was the spark that reignited his interest in writing. Determined to beat dyslexia, he learned how to spell and construct proper sentences at age 46, and he was submitting articles to prisoner publications and being published in prison shit how proud are you of that nance for my god helping this guy through it jesus christ he there's a whole statement on what i'm not going to read this whole statement but basically he says that it's really weird and

he throws some buddhist shit in there and he not that that's weird but the way the context of it is super weird and he says that prison life isn't bad and he's happy and people think it's so horrible but he has three meals a day and people clean up his dishes when he's done and the state provides me with water and all this type of shit uh the last part of it is he says quote to men to to many this may sound like some idyllic LSD drug concept or religious euphoria or some schizoid passivity disorder. I assure you it is not. The psychiatrist would have notified my attorney, which is ridiculous. He says, yes, George K., author of Sacred Language, Glossary of Earth, Law One, Highlights and Commentary.

He's got more books. Don't worry about this. He said, this essay is offered as a gift to all. Well, thanks, buddy. And then it's reprinted again in German below that. I shit you not. No way. I shit you not in German for any of his dad's friends that might be out there.

He has several books, including Pen Pals for Prisoners, Pen Pal Catalog for Prisoners, Volume 1. It came out in 2014. One on amazon one review uh 500 free magazines and where and where to get them in print oh no so uh that's enough this is all shit for prisoners uh one star uh one review five stars uh the best 500 nonprofit organizations for prisoners and their families in 2014. Also, he has the does lists. He does lists and like inmate resource. Prisoner BuzzFeed. Inmate shopper.

The inmate shopper. Number one, which is the I don't know what the prison. Yeah. Prison SkyMall. Inmate shopper. Issue two. And the D.I.S.S.E. Directory of Inmate Shopping Services and E-Commerce. Now, the 2014 Inmate Shopper has two reviews and only three stars, so I'd be aware of that one.

I'm not sure that one's up to snuff or not. But 2017, he wrote his opus here called Victimly Insane. And it's an interview, a full-length a full book length interview, he calls it. He says, thank you for checking me out. This is his Amazon thing. Quote, thank you for checking me out here on Amazon. I posted a sneak peek chapter one of my next book, Victimly Insane, the Frank Jarvis Atwood interview.

I'm both excited and nervous to write a book outside of my genre of resource guides for prisoners and their families. You know, lists. Victimly Insane is a book-length interview with a wrongfully convicted man who is still on death row after 30 years. Amazingly, Frank Atwood answered all my questions. None of that politician sidestep here. I found Frank

to be honest, sincere, reformed and a sharper mind than mine at 62 years. I mean, the guy is going for his Ph.D. from death row. Who does that? No one. You're going to fucking die. What's the point? It doesn't matter.

You may contact me or Frank at victimly underscore insane at Yahoo dot com. George and George is number seven, seven, nine, one. Oh, Browning. George is number 77910 Browning, it says. P.O. Box 3400-3G, as in Gregory, 12, Florence, Arizona, 85132. He's at Florence. He's at Florence awaiting death. He says, for a first contact, if you like, use jpay.com or georgekayeraz at deathrow-usa.com. Please leave a postal address for a response.

Thank you. Oh, by the way, he is also on Twitter, at georgekayer on Twitter. No. You got to look at his fucking profile, too. He says, this is his profile, quote, most published prisoner in America. Coming soon, victimlyane, the Frank Jarvis Atwood interview. Pre-order today. Visit victimlyinsane.com.

He's in Florence. And then he has 11 tweets, 140 followers, and he only follows 40 people. So he's working Twitter. Of his tweets, here's a couple gems for you. Oh, by the way, there's also a link to his LinkedIn page, because he's on fucking LinkedIn. Don't trust anyone on LinkedIn.

And he's wearing a tie on LinkedIn, looking like, and on Twitter, too. His profile picture looks like a guy who works for a news station. Why do they allow him to have a tie? He's like a 60-year-old man with a nice suit and tie on and his hair done. It's crazy uh here's a couple of his choice tweets uh one and these are from april of 2015 one is these are of a series he's doing called questions men ask women that force men to lie okay questions men ask women that force men to lie what is the first thing you notice about a woman? That's his one. The next one is, are you 18?

Come on, man. Questions men ask women. This is questions men ask women that force women to lie. Are you 18? Then they have to go, yes, I am. And then you fuck teenagers. Is that how that works, you dirtbag? This is a 60-year-old murderer in prison trying to say what a good guy is what a complete piece of shit uh and since execution by the way he might he's not being executed but he might fucking die anyway because there's this article talking about how since

executions were put on hold in 2014 this is four years ago five arizona death row inmates have died of quote natural causes all of them are hepatitis C. Is that right? They're all related to hepatitis C. They all have hepatitis C. You think that's from the syringes in prison? Well, yeah, they say, you know, they say that the medical director at Arizona Prison Complex that said that until last year that housed the majority said that recently testified that up to 80 percent of inmates in that complex were infected with hep c 80 fucking percent of this one uh the uh uh the the arizona department of corrections they say

it's a little better than that obviously because they're full of shit uh but they say that uh you know it can be obviously uh they say it can be effectively treated nowadays with very expensive antiviral medication that they're not giving those fucking guys. It's obviously sharing needles and razors and things like that. Rape. Those things. But less actually spread. Less sexually than through blood. It's more of a needle way more likely.

That is a terrible disease, by the way. It's a fucking horrible disease. You shit your insides out. It's a horrible disease. Well, yeah. It leads to cirrhosis and liver cancer and all this type type of shit so a lot of these people from there have got it uh which is it's pretty fucking amazing they say that the department of correction says that 6243 of the 41681 prisoners in the entire arizona department of corrections population

have hepatitis c which is 15 15 percent, which is crazy. That's a crazy amount of people. So much. That's a crazy fucking amount of people. Yeah, it's insane. So he's in there. Maybe he will do that. Let's see what he says about himself here. This is his whole thing. Quote, I was first published at age 14. This is George grew up in an entrepreneurial family, co-started and managed a multi-million dollar niche company in the 80s. In between your burglary arrest and your other fucking arrest? Horseshit. And also, he says, and I'm the founding editor of Shop, D-I-S-S-E, America's largest shop for inmates. And yeah, he says, quote, when you read my articles about marketing to inmates you'll

know you're receiving firsthand business wisdom from an experienced insider that is the vicinity of williamson arizona and that is a complete lunatic asshole named george kyer holy shit and his crazy ass fucking cabal of lunacy yeah these people this is a fucking wacky story man i thought i knew all the all the names of death inmates, and I did not know that man's name. No, he's on there. Well, you didn't know that town even fucking existed, and neither did I, for that matter. Christ almighty. I never heard of that town.

I was like, Williams? No, Williamson. And when you search for Williamson, it just comes up Williams. Interesting. It's fucking ridiculous. So that's that. If you like that, I know what you can do. Number one, come to the damn Phoenix show this weekend.

See you there. See you there, November 3rd. Also, you can go give us a positive five star review there on iTunes, Apple podcast, the damn purple icon. Make that funky algorithm dance. Help us out. It doesn't matter what you say. It's just for business.

You can go over to shut up and give me murder dot com where you can follow the link over to Patreon dot com slash crime in sports. And that is how you can make a donation that make this whole thing go around and makes us very happy people. Or you can go to PayPal there also and use our email address, which is crime in sports at Gmail dot com. And you can do that. And if you want to get a hold of the show, use that particular email address.

Or you can check out at small town murder on instagram at murder small on twitter and at small town pod on facebook do all of those things go to get the live show tickets please get your merch do all that stuff and uh jimmy i would like you to do me a favor though i would like you to hit me with the list of people who have done all of that stuff this week and our producers who have given us everything that we have. Jimmy, hit me with it. This week's executive producers are Sam Stevens, Alex Eicht, or Eicht? Eicht, E-C-H-T.

That's a tough one. Eicht. Ah. Eicht. I think you nailed it. It's probably not. I doubt it. Kelly Mack, Ariana Folsom, Denise Herdman, and Michael Navarcal.

I think that's right. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. I think that's right. No, it's not. Okay. I'm sorry, Michael. Well, thank you, Michael.

We appreciate it either way. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for everything you guys do for us. Troy Graham, Lynn Cornell, Becky Estes, Nicole Revis, Jen Hardman, James Theesby, Rhonda S. Green, Caitlin Dugas, or yeah, that's Dugas, Alexandra Lamb, Laura, oh, God damn it. I was going to, Laura Del Hay, Della Donna. Yes. Hey.

Delay Della Donna. Okay. I think that's right. Or Della Donnie. Blake, Blake, Blake Gron. Joe Williams. I'mana, Shalana, Shalana, Sareti, Jake Lascanis, Hunter, Hunter Perry, Elizabeth, all shit. Elizabeth Oliver, Terry Bigum, Stephanie Agoa, Thorsten Gross.

No. Yeah. Thorsten Gross. Kevin Holmes, Jesse Hartman. No, that's Jen. Jen Hartman and Jesse Hartman. Oh, okay. Really fucked me up.

John McGuire, Frank Tripati, Jessica Willis, Jeffrey McAvoy, Heather Goss, Regan Schalke, Lisa Benaduret, Benaduret, sorry, Lisa, Lauren Burkert, Gary Howard. He's been Howard he's been extremely yeah man thank you so much uh Kerry Kerry Spreeman uh Matt Richards Matt Dietrich Kristen Mitchell Justin Miller Rosanna Wagner uh Jeff Huber uh Lyft Driving uh I think that was uh I think that's a dude in in San Francisco the Dan yeah Dan Dan Rogers that's it yeah we San Francisco. Oh, Dan. Yeah, Dan. Dan Rogers. That's it. We know Dan. I know, but my fucking head just shit it out. He says the after party is at Tupelo in San Francisco.

I don't know if that's true. At what? At Tupelo, whatever that is. I imagine it's a bar. My after party will be in my fucking... I was thinking the same thing. A hotel room where the streets of Fisherman's Wharf always smoke fat joints. I'm going to hit a cold shower and go the fuck away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kyle Tamblyn, Iron Tree Craftworks, which are homemade wooden crafts. They're like bowls and shit. And I believe the person that owns that is also a police officer. So thank you very much. Samantha Bird, Karen Lambiasi,

Lauren Demerath, Christine Red or Reed, Corey Brocks, John Whitmore, Kara James, Jeremy Sterk, Bryant Tool, Lee with no last name, Jason Fuller coming through again. We'll see you in Detroit, brother. Matt Waters, Ricky Bryant, Cindy Oaks, Under the Sea Fabrics. Go get your fucking fabrics there. Oh, yeah.

Mitchell, Michelle. It's Michelle Terry. God damn it. I called her Mitchell. Last time I called her Michael. Sorry, Michelle. You caught it, yeah. Mitchell, Michelle. It's Michelle Terry. God damn it. I called her Mitchell. Last time I called her Michael. Sorry, Michelle. You caught it, babe. You got that.

Emily Richardson. Jimmy Davis. Evelyn Van Vosselen. Sea Pickers, Inc. I'm not sure. I tried to Google that shit, and I don't... Sea Pickers? We both...

We looked at each other like that can go a lot of bad ways. Sea Picker? That could be a lot. Rachel Stora. Jenny Lidacote. looked at each other are like that can go a lot of bad ways a sea picker that could be a lot rachel stora uh jenna uh jenny litico litico ty uh tanya hayden uh steven rude pickle bean nicole mendez ferrandez uh janet janet shot janet chavez uh bill susinski kelly higby lauren clayton no caton it's lauren caton for sure. Holly and Jalen Phoenix. Heather Fowler. Nicolette.

No, Nicola. Nicola Elliott. She got sick. She was in the hospital. Get better fast, Nicola. Dina Horowitz and all the homies in Homestead in Florida. There is a prison that is allowed to listen to us. Awesome.

And it's fucking incredible. You guys didn't do it. Thank you so much. Yeah, you're all innocent. And we'll be happy to see you exonerated and uh what here's a word of advice if you're ever at a hearing for any of this stuff yeah don't say what that guy said about the ufos and the bible leave the bible and ufo shit aside if you're going to beg for your life for that matter thank you guys so much for everything you do for us. We can't do it without you. That's real. That's true.

It really is, honestly. You guys are so nice to talk to your friends. We just are appreciative. We ain't shit without you. Thank you guys. Thank you guys for everything you do for us. And what if these people wanted to thank you for everything you do for them, Jimmy? How could they do that? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat.

And I appreciate everything. Keep sending me dog pictures. Don't send me the shit you send to James, which is where? Where can they send that to you? They can send those. At Jimmy P is funny. Or you can copy and paste my last name from the show description and figure it out like that. And find me.

Don't be a hero and try and spell it. It's just going to get ugly and you're going to break a finger or something. You're going to type it out wrong and sprain some shit. It doesn't matter. But we've had a wild time this week. Buy those damn Phoenix Live show tickets. Do that. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.