Small Town Murder - #98 - Cold Blooded, Not Blue Blooded in Peru, Indiana

Episode Date: December 19, 2018

This week, in Peru, Indiana, an unlikely couple from different sides of the tracks have what appears to be a story book romance... until you dig a little deeper, and find some very interesting tales from the past. To the outside world, they seem like the perfect couple, in the perfect house, with the perfect life. The problem is that someone ends up dead, leading to finger pointing, and a frustrating investigation! It's definitely an interesting one!! Along the way, we find out most circus performers are probably pedophiles, that being stabbed doesn't have to ruin the vibe, and that sometimes jury members are clearly open to negotiation!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Peru, Indiana, a relationship between two unlikely people ends in rumors, finger pointing, and finally, murder. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us on another spellbinding, insane, crazy, death-defying, not death-defying, because death happens, episode of Small Town Murder. Every single week. Yeah, that's one thing that we can promise is death, unfortunately.

That's a consistency. It's called Small Town Murder, so if no one died, you'd be like, what happened? Where's the story? Well, what the shit is this? It would be like if you went to a basketball game and they never took out a basketball. They went out, had a sandwich, hung out for a while, signed some autographs and left. You'd be like, oh, that's great and all, but where's the... That was nice of you guys.

Glad I got the autograph, but I... Where the hell's the game? Where's the game? I paid for basketball. So thank you folks for joining us. We are super excited this week for a crazy episode. We are off the road finally. As you can hear in our voices probably, the road is lingering on us.

It was tough. It was a hard one, but we had so much fun. Thank you so much to every single person who came out to those live shows, people who came to multiple live shows in multiple cities, people traveled from far and wide. People bringing unbelievable sweet gifts. Gifts for us. Thank you, guys.

So much thoughtful shit. You guys are amazing. Honestly, you guys guys it was so hard to do that, to do every day in different cities and all that and you guys really made it so you carried us through it. We'd get to the place dead tired and all that and we'd

see, holy crap, these people are like they seem like they really want to show and we would get excited and energy would come. So thank you guys so much for that, for everything you gave to us, including your energy and your money too thank you we appreciate that and being away from our families and and people that are familiar and then seeing faces of people that we've seen on social media or people that we've met before from last tour or yeah it was really nice yeah and then telling us because you don't see faces on on patreon no and

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Ask just social media. Ask people Spotify, Stitcher. There's tons of stuff to get on. So do that. But it's going to sound. It's worth it. The show is going to sound better than it sounds now because we can release it at a higher bit rate now. So it'll sound like it did pre-March when it was really nice there and crisp. And it's still crisp, but it sounds a little muddier than it should because of the bit

rate. So that tech shit aside, do all that. It's a good time. Head on over to shut up and give me murder.com uh for all things shut up all things shut up all things small town murder i have i haven't slept it has been we haven't slept in days so this is going to be fun we're good and punchy yeah and uh this is a crazy story so we're gonna have a really good time with this it's gonna be insane we landed monday and haven't stopped moving since no we've been recording and we slept four hours a night before i haven't slept longer than a two-hour shift

since thursday i'm not even kidding since thursday i sleep two hours here an hour on a plane an hour on a floor i'm a fucking disaster then tomorrow night i have to wrap christmas gift oh yeah i have to make christmas oh i have 40 people coming over for Christmas Eve, dude. And there's no rest. I'm going to sleep in 2019 at some point. That's our goal. That's our New Year's resolution. So head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com for all things small-town murder and crime and sports.

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The stories are real, but we're going to make some jokes. Do some silly sillies. Bottom line, yeah, if that's not good to you, then you're not going to like the show. But what we are going to do is we go out of our way to try not to make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. So that's awesome. We're going to have a good time. If that sounds good to you, stick around.

If you think true crime and comedy never belong together and you're like jokes in there, then go listen to Dateline and enjoy it and then you can hear them they cut their head off and it was clean that's fine it's good if that's what you want we're not saying that's bad but that's not what we are so have a good one and the rest of you shout it out loud from wherever you are

unless you're in a cubicle in a very conservative office then go into the bathroom and shout it into a wadded up ball of toilet paper shut up and give me murder let's do this yes let's go on a trip jimmy what do you say i would love that back on the road let's let's go well we didn't go here thankfully for us we're going all the way to indiana okay uh we did this at uh some live shows here this particular episode uh so uh it's it's it's an interesting one i'm sure jimmy's got it mixed up with the others though and uh be like who's that?

Oh, wasn't that? No, never mind. Clear your slate and let it fly right now. We're going to Peru, Indiana, which is strange. And Indiana, for some reason, has this thing about naming a lot of their cities after way better places and more tropical weather wise, like tropical locations. As we'll talk about, there's a Kokomo. There's this. This is in Miami County.

So they're out of their fucking minds. I don't know what they're thinking. Just convincing people it's a vacation destination. If we just name it places that people go, then they'll just get confused and book it here and then they'll be like, oh, cool. It's Indiana. I'm happy with this. I thought I was going to Miami, but this is just as good.

I thought I was going to Kokomo. Is that Rick Smith? What the hell is going on? I don't know what's happening. I see Rick Smith and Reggie Miller. That's the only two people in town just towering above everybody else. It's very strange. It's a very strange town.

Peru, Indiana. And of course, the pronunciation wise, it is Peru like the country. Even if it wasn't, it is because there's way more people in Peru. So if you name your town after a place with more people, you pronounce it the way they fucking pronounce it. End of story. You don't get to make up your own pronunciation. But apparently the old people around here have to make up their own pronunciation.

So they call it peru yeah because they're assholes it's sticking the mud what going over to peru it's not p why are you extending it why make it longer why that's just hillbillies though right it's old people yeah it's old people they say i think this is maybe the way they talk there and they also call it a guitar you know that's that's what i mean it's more about I think it's probably more about the rhythm of the speech, the actual like syntax of how they deliver shit. It's how they remember. Yeah.

Now, the weirdest part about this and all my research, I'm talking murder, town, everything that I researched here. And this is a crazy story. Crazy story with a lot of shocking shit and like a weird twist and everything. And then this is the craziest thing i found uh there this here is peru indiana but there's also an indiana peru that's amazing it's amazing how's that even possible okay when we showed it at the live show it is it's it's got of it's they basically have like a tiny arch too like st louis which is even sillier they have no idea what they're doing down there why would you call it indiana peru why would you do that i don't get it it's like a trade

thing i don't know did indiana jones visit there once i think so yeah he took a a thing a grail of some kind away from a cave and he's the only guy never to get crushed by that big spiky ball so they they put up a he He went as Harrison Ford. He just went as vacation. Yeah, they didn't know. And they were like, Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones is there. He didn't even have his regular hat.

He was just wearing like a... He was wearing like a Tommy Bahama shirt. Like a trucker hat pulled down over his eyes so nobody would bother him in sunglasses. But they knew. He probably crashed a plane there. I think he's crashed two planes. He has, yeah. That's fucking crazy.

You know, well, he is 75 years old. Maybe it's a little time to take the fucking uh pilot's license away i mean there's a lot of crazy parts in that in that time but i mean the craziest is that he's 75 and crashed twice oh and he's after 70 and nobody's like maybe we should stop him from flying they're like well yeah he's harrison ford get off his plane it's funny get him out no he's gonna kill somebody how about that or himself and it'll be a national tragedy I feel like that's literally what it is if he didn't say that one line in that one movie that time there wouldn't he wouldn't have a pilot's license they'll be like

take that away from that old bastard sorry but instead they're like you can't you gotta he's just gonna tell you to get off his plane and then you're gonna laugh and then that's gonna be the end of the inspection so never mind okay let's just fuck him this peru is in north central indiana um and it the town itself it's the county's kind of a square maybe a little bit of an l and it's it's right in the middle of it so it's not in a pan handle but the county looks like a just a blood splotch it's smattering it's a spatter it's just all panhandle so you it's pretty hard to live in this town and not be in a panhandle of some kind i'll be a fuck up yeah it's not like a square town it's definitely like it's drawn up and there's like a one road that's part of the town and then

another little part of the town it's totally gerrymandered like there's some congressman who's sitting somewhere or some state representative of some kind that is elected because that's drawn up this fucking weird like in between neighborhoods and smiling his balls off we cheated we cheated that's right we win so yeah so uh it's an hour and 45 minutes to indianapolis if you want to go someplace i guess a little better i suppose uh two and a half hours to chicago if you want to go someplace a lot better than peru indiana um like i said in miami county some balls on you this is a barren fucking flat wasteland there's no ocean frozen for christ frozen tundra and this miami county good luck perfect uh zip codes 46970

area code 765 uh 5.2 square miles so not a huge town not a tiny town problem is the motto of this town it's got a couple on their sign they have one that's embracing our heritage envisioning our future which is always a little creepy to embrace whatever

heritage you have to embrace is a little weird even embracing yesterday is a bad idea yeah who knows today you're supposed to be better. That's like the rule, right? Well, you use yesterday to figure out what went wrong and how you can correct it. How can you be better today? This place, the heritage that they're embracing is the scariest thing I've ever heard. Their motto is, quote, circus capital of the world.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Fuck my life. This town is out of their goddamn minds with the circus, which is, if you've listened to the show for a while, if you're a new listener and don't know, I despise clowns and believe they should be hunted in the street for sport. So that's how I feel about this whole situation. So I was just freaked out by this town. If you've listened to this show, you know that Baraboo, Wisconsin thinks they're hot shit.

They do. They think they're in this, but they're not shit for circus compared to these people. Either way, I fuck circus capital of the world. I prefer Peru, Indiana, where everybody is terrifying. I think that's a better motto. And if you've seen these people, they are terrifying. They have parades that we'll talk about and things to do where everybody's dressed as a clown. They dress the kids up.

It's creepy shit. It's creepy. Let's see a quick history here. In 1827, a guy named Joseph Holman bought land from the Miami Indians, more specifically the chief of the Miami Indians, who was a very, very white man named Jean-Baptiste de Richardsville. How did he get voted? He looked like somebody's grandmother. And they were like, yeah, no, we trust you with our land, which was a bad move because he was in charge of all of their treaties and like trading for land and shit like that

and selling land. And by the end of this whole thing the miami indians weren't really around very much and by the time uh john baptista richardsville died he was the wealthiest man in all of indiana all of indiana i feel like he might have been dipping a little bit into the coffers of these of these fine people set up some deals that benefited him a little bit a little bit for him because they weren't there and he was with all the money so it seems a little odd there uh he had acquired more than 20 square miles of property along the rivers which is super valuable you want it that's yeah 20 square yeah he took that shit for himself like all the good land he would parcel that up for himself sell the other shit skim off the top

he was a terrible person it sounded like that's incredible yes so obviously they uh they also you know uh they they save his house and it's a a monument and all that sort of thing because you know he essentially owned a river pretty much yeah the sides of it once you've owned the sides of it you might as well it's your river that's it uh peru was founded this town in 1834 by william n hood who bought 200 acres of land from Joseph Holman, who bought it from the Indian's white grandmother lady. So an account of the time of how it got the name Peru. Why would you name a town in Indiana, Peru? What would you do this for?

An account of the time says, quote, someone of the surveying party asked Hood what he was going to call his town, and he replied that he didn't care so long as it was a short name. And they came up with Peru. That's two syllables his name is hood right that was so easy just called it the hood so that done done and done you're out instead how about peru yeah that's not stupid or anything or they were old so how about peru i like it how many e's i don't fucking know two well one i don't know ask that he's he's lettered ask him so long as there's a mark over that you do that uh now uh francis slocum was a little girl born here march 4th 1773 or is it over the e it's the i think is what we're going for i think it's

the e yeah i think it is. You said that and I pictured it over the U but the U where the E was even though I know how the word's spelled because I'm reading it and I am not stupid. I've seen it.

Well, I am but I know how to spell Peru. I'm not that stupid. Let's put it that way. I saw it spelled out and I was like, wait, it's over the second letter I think.

I'm starting to see like Smurfs and shit. I'm hallucinating. I'm like Tom Hanks in the Money Pit. The Smurfs are here and the Care Bears. I'm starting to see like Smurfs and shit. I'm hallucinating. I'm like Tom Hanks in the money pit. The Smurfs are here and the Care Bears. I'm losing my fucking mind. So this Francis Slocum was born here at the age of five. She was taken from the captured from the town by the Delaware Warriors in 1778.

No, that's yeah, they're, it's an ABA team. They went defunct in 74 and they became the Kentucky Colonels. That's how it works, the Delaware Warriors. Yeah, no, they were, she was captured by three Delaware Warrior tribesmen there and kidnapped and then returned when she was 65. Perfect. They were like, you know what? Never mind. Grandma forgot her apple pie recipe,

so you can have her back now. I don't think I've ever heard of a child fucking returned 60 years later. Especially an old lady. Everybody's probably dead. They were like, who the fuck is this old bag that we have to take care of now? They were like, it's one of yours.

Her parents have been dead a long time, probably. It's the 1700s, for Christ's sake. You're not attractive anymore. Go home. Clean yourself up. Come on. What's wrong with you? Grandma started shitting the pants again, and we're not having it this time.

We took you when you were five because you were taking care of yourself. Now you're done. Now we got to do shit? Get the fuck out of here. Take a hike. Go back. So they just returned her. That's hilarious.

Which is interesting. They had a car company here. The model automobile company had cars here. And right around the turn of the 20th century, they started making them. Right around the time the circus came to town and gave this town its stupid, shitty identity. Now, a guy named Ben Wallace, who is not the center for the Detroit Pistons in the 2000s, world championship great defender with the big afro. Not him, shockingly enough. Another man named Ben Wallace brought the circus to town in the late 1800s.

And then a whole bunch of other circuses started making their winter headquarters in Indiana because they don't know how weather works yeah uh apparently uh i guess so peru had a bunch of different circuses ringling brothers uh hagenbeck wallace buffalo bill's wild west show which you gotta see to believe there oh my goodness uh jesus christ it was so into the circus that by the 1920s maps printed didn't even have it listed as peru anymore unlike state issued maps it was called circus city wow which is worse than circuit city which is fucking terrible so think about how bad that is circus city instead of peru uh until the 1940s a better better name for a town really than peru you just name in indiana if it was in like florida and they called it peru i'd

be like oh yeah it's got a tropical feel it's probably a humid down there this is indiana what are you doing nothing to do with peru uh yeah so uh problem is by the 1940s the circus people figured out that there was warmer climates in the winter and they all moved to florida so that was the end of the cirque that's the end of the circus for circus city now it's just like a dried up husk of a circus town it sounds like a made up like a it's a dried up husk of a circus town like a bad 70s movies that they're trying to it's awful they have the international circus hall of fame here that's what they tried to do to revive interest and uh it looks like a concentration camp perfect i'm not even kidding which by the way is the only thing scarier than a circus

is a concentration camp that's the only scarier that's amazing only worst place it's got it seriously looks like it has smokestacks on it it's the most awful looking place but james nondescript barn a hall of fame implies that there were achievements that's what i mean what is it just bozo the first elephant who didn't who didn't crush a man with his giant foot what a picture of him here's a picture of daisy the clown made the best balloon elephants ever that's what i mean what what is in there in the circus hall of fame the most are the biggest asshole who ever lived here Here he is, everybody. Look at him. Oh, my God. Sounds dumb.

It's very dumb. Maria Rasputin, who's the daughter of Grigori Rasputin, the mad bunk. If you don't know anything about Rasputin, I suggest a Time Suck with Dan Cummins episode on him. It's very informative and funny, too. Listen to Dan. He's funny. So she was mauled by a bear in peru while working for the ringling brother circus did she die survived well think about her you know what i mean it takes more

they don't die so this is dude this is some genetic shit i'm sorry he couldn't die she's a girl just a young girl is mauled by a bear she's fine it's all right no problem she's like god jesus christ excuse me he had to end up poisoning his claws pussy and he's just talking young girl is mauled by a bear. She's fine. It's all right. No problem. She's like, God, Jesus Christ. He didn't have poison in his claws, pussy, and he's talking shit to him. He's slobbered on my face. You know what my dad does? Pushes him from back as he's walking away. Shoves him. They should

call the Hall of Fame a museum. That would be better. Nope. Hall of Fame. Like there's achievements happening. Somebody did something that fucking mattered see this guy he's the best right it's the best ever not what he does this fucking guy forget about it the best fire eater ever best right you should see when he made a fucking dog with a with a ball you don't understand he you could see its fucking emotions he could make a

tongue happen you understand and the rest of the dog would stay still, but the tongue would move. I don't know how the fuck he did it with a balloon. This guy was amazing. I'm telling you. He's a fucking genius. You know that little knot at the back of the balloon? He invented that. He invented that.

It's called the dizzy knot because he's dizzy the clown. I was going to say something way worse, but that's hysterical. Okay, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. I don't know why I thought you were... He invented the balloon knot. I was just going to say at the back of the dog, that balloon knot looks like it's butthole. He invented making the balloon knot the dog's butthole.

He invented it. He goes, that looks like a fucking dog's butthole. He invented it. He looked at it and he goes, that looks like a fucking dog's butthole. That looks like a butthole. Am I right? People used to make it like a thing on the end of the nose, like it's nice and cute. This guy said butthole. I go for reality, mister. That's what I'm talking about.

Hall of Famer. Hall of Famer. Put me on the wall. Man, we are punchy. Retire my makeup. Wow. This i retire my makeup wow this is insane man this is insane holy shit retire this face design i do not want it on a juggalo someday no no no this is i want to trademark and put in the hall of fame it's the only thing that's going to make this right so fucking hell jesus uh 1913 they had a massive flood this this ruined the town

they had uh in three days they had six inches of rain which doesn't sound like a lot if it doesn't peru's laughing at it yeah peru peru peru was like so we got that yesterday oh that's nice i bet it was sunny for a couple hours in there it's pretty good seattle's like pussies it's like a fucking every weekend uh but i guess if you're in a flat plain land it's a little different story and it messed up the town pretty good how long did it take him to get six inches uh three days it seems even i mean even in the desert we get that and we've gotten two and two inches in a day we've gotten like four inches you've gotten four inches in about three hours in the desert where the crazy monsoon storms and there's huge floods also but it doesn't do this uh before this there was it was a busy

town they had activities uh jobs 15 000 people 100 factories a trolley service railroads a hospital a brand new hospital a circus that employed a thousand people on the road a thousand which is a huge road show and a concrete bridge which was the largest of the world uh of its kind in the world of its kind at the time all destroyed by the flood wow many people died and also a ton of circus animals died so it fucked the town up pretty good and set it back a lot uh 1933 john dillinger came through town excellent famous criminal there his gang robbed this is a ballsy robbery. They robbed the police department armory.

That's where they keep the guns. All of them. So that's ballsy. Yeah, that's what they're all like. They got one Thompson submachine gun, two Winchester rifles, two shotguns, four.38 caliber revolvers, and a half dozen bulletproof vests. And that's what they got. James, that's nine guns. And six vests.

And the fucked up thing is there's 12 cops so do the math there if you got a vest then you don't need a gun understand you're what we're gonna call the first wave you'll stop the bullets our boys when you drop we'll be standing there ready to shoot boy and they'll never know what happened there's gonna be volleys it's gonna be so get down oh yeah it's gonna be back and forth uh by the 1950s they said okay we haven't had an identity for a while here we're circus city with no circus we need to figure something out so that's when they put up the international circus hall of fame uh which is ridiculous and uh also by 1959 they had trained high school students. I'm not kidding.

This is real. High school students to perform circus acts. Nope. That ended up being so popular to all the town folk that by the next year, they started renting a tent and every year they have the annual Peru amateur circus. I shit you not. Nope. Those words do not go together. No.

Amateur and circus should never be mixed. I won't even watch amateur porn, and everybody knows how to fuck. Everybody. Everybody. No one's doing it on a trapeze on purpose. Right. Because if they were fucking on a trapeze, most of it would end with, and then they break their necks, which would not be a great video.

You got to come before they break their necks. That's the video. Stuff comes out of them, but it's usually guts and blood and all kinds of very scary uh yeah this it's messed up too the way they recruit these kids it's super weird uh also peruse the world's uh only remaining manufacturer of steam calliope's perfect which are metal tubes that make gas that comes out and makes music it It's like a musical fart, Jimmy, basically. You'd really enjoy the thought process behind it anyway. Where do you put it at? Do you put it in your living room? I have no idea.

I saw the picture of it. It was on a big cart going through town. I don't know if that's the only way you can perform calliope music. Yeah, a model of Cadillac in the early 1910s, 20s. The Cadillac Calliope. The Cadillac Calliope came out. That's actually a great name for a car. That would be a great name.

Like an Escalade. I mean, you could call this thing an Escalade. The Escalade Calliope edition. It's got like four metal tubes that make music coming out of the back. It would be really easy to have a personalized horn at that point. You could just, we could program it. Fantastic. People in this town,

11,060 people, down 14% since 1990. Can't imagine what they're running from. Maybe the fucking circus. Probably. Terrified. Median age is about normal. More males than females,

which is never a good sign. Never. At a party, at an office usually. Wherever you are, there's more males than females. It's probably a worse environment. It's a trap.

Yeah, because even the males are more aggressive then, and if there's more females, then they have to be on their best behavior because they want to fuck some of them. That's how it works. That's how nature works. Multiples of the game. Yeah, that's how nature works, everybody.

So, or just be nice to them because you shouldn't be a monster in front of a lady. Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't that be nice if everybody thought that? I don't think that's how anyone thinks, though, unfortunately. A few people. There's several. Try not to.

Yeah. We try to be bad. And then again, we're doing this. So anyway, married population is lower because you're a bunch of clowns here to choose from. What are you going to do here? Single population, then obviously higher. Higher widowed population. I assume clown murders

obviously uh higher divorce rate if you're married to a clown how are you going to stay married to that shit i would hope so uh race eventually that fucking runs out right i would think you'd be like if you fucking squirt me with that seltzer bottle one more yeah no i wasn't expecting it again you're right you always surprise. That doesn't make it more entertaining for me. Just because I didn't expect... Oh, you got me. Thanks. Now I got to redo my makeup.

Thanks, asshole. Also, they probably get... Clown makeup. Yeah. They also get divorced because she had the same makeup as you. I thought it was you, baby. Calm down. I swear.

Look, it's still on my balls. All clown pussy feels the same. You know that, honey. You know it. You know that. Come on back. Come on. Come here, balls.

Move back in. I love you. So, Jesus Christ. Race of this town, about 86% white. Yeah. So, pretty white. Yeah. Unless they took the sentences before they wiped the paint off.

That's probably it. Who the hell knows then at that point? Anything could be. Well, let's look at it here uh 9.47 percent black who would know you wouldn't have any idea if it was all clown makeup well here 0.14 percent asian that's probably accurate because even and fuck you that's not racist that is you can tell an asian clown yeah sorry but that's life if you if you if there's a hundred clowns and one of them's asian you're

gonna go that's the asian one so i mean you wouldn't know i don't know the black one or white one or you know that guy's a an arab guy or i don't know any of those but uh that guy's korean for sure i can tell that right right now he tried to draw round circles and it's still still obvious yeah sorry you're you're Asian, sir. But you're doing a wonderful job. Keep juggling. That's amazing. You can be an Asian clown.

Go crazy. You could be the best damn. You could end up in the International Circus Hall of Fame and put a little of that international spin on it now. Won't just be a bunch of clowns from Indiana. Anyway, 1.68 Hispanic, so it's's pretty goddamn white let's just say that religion 36.8 are religious i'm not sure if circus counts uh but 14.6 the largest total group is other christian faith which i assume is clown jesus that's all i can think just up on the cross barbed wire around

his little honky squeaky nose there the the red one oversized sandals oversized big oversized sandals his feet are fine it's just big floppy sandals are kind of the thing this is our like pre-christmas episode too yay merry christmas happy holidays to all isn't this wonderful wonderful? 0.0% Jewish in this town. No, thanks. All that crazy clownness. 33% of people in this town voted Democrat in the last presidential election. 64% Republican, which is strange.

I wouldn't think clowns would lean right. Keep that baby in your pussy. Honk. Squirt all over there. Pedals away. You're like, what the fuck was that how did that happen jesus you think they would be uh i don't know open to suggestion a little nicer at minimum something i don't know we're just not really care anybody else doing look at what a loon you are it doesn't matter you shouldn't care what anybody stay out of people's business so let's see hugh jackman is a super racist whipping a clown on in a tutu on a fucking clown in a tutu or no a bear oh a bear

okay that's on a unicycle uh screaming fuck women and and all other racial epithets epithet what is it epithets but that's yeah it's like screaming how it's the greatest show on earth the whole time it's the greatest show on earth and y'all know it i'd watch women so keep peddling pussy let's do it come on fuck animals so anyway uh household income here is low uh fifty three thousand dollars is the national average. Here it is about $33,000. 22% make under $15,000 a year and way less people than are supposed to make over $150,000 a year. So it's not very... You're saying the circus pays peanuts.

That's what you're saying. Son of a bitch bastard. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Jimmy. I'm saying I want to kick you right in the dick for saying it. But yeah, that's what I'm saying. You son of'm saying I want to kick you right in the dick for saying it. But yeah, that's what I'm saying. You son of a bitch bastard. That's what my grandmother would say.

You son of a bitch bastard. Chase me around. Cost of living, overall 100 is even par normal. Here, 78 is the cost of living. And that is super low because of housing. The housing cost here, median home cost, $72,200. Oh, boy. Very, very low.

Half the houses are worth less than $60,000 here. So if we've convinced you that all you can do to better your life and make a better time for your family is move to Peru, we have for you the Peru, Indiana Real Estate Report. Indiana Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $630, which seems like too much. It seems, Steve. There's going to be clown DNA all over that place. I don't want that. You can get a free house almost.

Why pay that? Why pay that? I found a four-bedroom, two-bath, 2,358-square-foot house. It's kind of rough. It needs a remodel, but it's $69,000. That's a deal. For 2400 square feet. That's crazy.

That's crazy. That's a big house. They're crazy. That's crazy. Come on down to Crazy Peru's. Crazy Clownies. We're giving away houses. I found a four bedroom, three bath,square-foot house on five acres. I will say, as you saw in the pictures in the live show, the wallpaper, the same wallpaper

runs through the entire house. Oh, boy. Living room, kitchen, bedroom, closets, everything. It's the scariest thing you've ever seen. $115,900, though, for five acres. And then I found a seven-bedroom, nine-bath brick mansion with its own entry gate. It's called Carriage Manor Estate. It's a manor and an estate.

It's ridiculous. That's a lot of house. 11,054 square feet. Wow. $3,999,000. $4 million worth of Indiana. It's a little too much. That should be all of Indiana.

That's pretty much it. Minus Indianapolis. You should be able to buy everything in indiana except for indianapolis except for rick smiths and reggie miller that's the only two guys you can't own there are only two things you can't own because they're i i they're like wards of the state i look at it like they should be they're like listen guys i'm sorry it's a national security almost thing is no one else will come here unless you're here so it's kind of like how

you know i think like kirby puckett and prince were belong to minnesota just the state they did something they got caught doing something they murdered a woman in like their teens and they said listen you're very talented uh we own you now it's either that or state prison so you take your pick and turn into like some weird movie where they have to be commandos to win their freedom get out there on your purple shit. Go out there. Come on. Dance around.

And then probably Andrew Luck, too, huh? Oh, yeah. No, he's not going anywhere. Sorry. They're keeping him. They bought him from Stanford. Yeah. Luck's talking about it.

I said, you're ours now. We bought you. You're here forever with that weird overbite that you have. Is that an overbite or an underbite? Peyton Manning bought his way out of it somehow. I don't know how he did it, but he ended up buying his way out of it. So things to do here. Third week of July is the

Peru Amateur Circus, which is frightening. All performers are ranging in age from 7 to 21. All performers, which is the scariest thing ever. 21 is the cutoff? The cutoff. And their pitch is quote, no child is turned away from participating. they're not just

looking for the talented who can shine of course there's that but everybody is allowed in as long as their age is 7 to 21 that is also nambla's pitch they just copied and pasted it from their website probably just looking for children nambla and john wayne gacy same people same same thing all the same. Property crime, crime rate in general, we'll talk about here. Property crime is about 20% under the average. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is about half the average.

So it's a pretty safe town. Plus the clowns, I assume. Once you kill a clown, it's pretty anonymous, maybe. Just leave a clown corpse in the street, and nobody cares, probably, is the other thing. So they don't count them as real deaths,, I assume. Once you kill a clown, it's pretty anonymous, maybe. Just leave a clown corpse in the street, and nobody cares, probably, is the other thing. So they don't count them as real deaths, I would assume. They shouldn't count them as real people. No, I don't think so either. No, clowns are not people.

That's the lesson here, is they're not people, and they shouldn't be treated as such. So murder, let's talk about that here in this town. I would love to. A murder that happened here. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our sponsors, Third Love. Oh, is this thirdlove.com?

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Go get your bras. And now back to the show. So the murder in this town. Let's start with one of the players here first off. And this is different. There's a very brief appearance of a trailer, but it's not the murder scene. There's very little white trashery here. It's a different type of story. So it's a change from the last few weeks where no matter how hard I've tried, I cannot find interesting stories that don't take place in trailers in certain states.

It's just the way it is, and I don't understand it. That's a fuck Oklahoma. God damn it, Wyoming. Get it together. So we'll talk about James Grund Jr. first. Jr., right away, if you're a crime and sports listener, your little ears came up and went Jr. Oh, no.

So let's give him a break here. Let's not jump to conclusions yet. Jimmy, as he's called, he's born two days before Christmas. So that is December 23rd. Coming up soon here. 1944. And he is a legal legacy in this area. His father's a county attorney.

His grandfather was an attorney. His uncles are all attorneys and judges. And very prominent. His path was paved before he was born. Beautiful. The second he came out and they said, it's a boy, they said they slapped a law school sweatshirt on him. And said, oh, good, he'll follow right in our footsteps. And he never had a choice in the matter.

He didn't go home in one of those onesies. He went home in a baby robe. He went home in a robe. A little black robe in a little plastic gavel the only toy you know one of the ones that squeak when you hit things that's all the only toy they gave him he just ran around squeak you know making judgments one day sir and shit uh he graduates from peru high school in 1962 and then goes to college and also law school after that at the University of Indiana in Bloomington. So he's going to stay pretty local. It's about two hours away.

So that's not too far. During his sophomore year of college, he meets a woman, as one does. It's 1965. So this is like a very, yeah, it's right between a couple of different eras. It's right. It's a very, yeah, but 65 is a weird time to be in college because it was, well, there was a couple of different eras it's right it's a very yeah yeah but 65 is a weird time to be in college because it was well there was a lot of square very square like 50s shit going on still and then the then the kind of the not the hippie movement but the kind of pre-hippie

presley stuff that was that's well that's the that's all dead that's the dorky 50s shit and then there's also like this other thing coming on, like LSD. Oh, I got you. I don't know if in Indiana, but if you went to Berkeley, you knew about LSD in 65 and shit like that. Yeah, I guess that's true. Shit started coming around right around that time. I see that in 1970, because I'm dumb. Well, the late 60s is when it was culturally everywhere, but it was still legal in California,

I think, until 66. That is a weird time in America. You're right. It's a weird time. That's when the Hells Angels were a big deal. they became like people were like what the fuck is this they were in Life Magazine and all that Hunter Thompson wrote Hells Angels book like that's 65 was their peak of like shooting into the popular culture so it's a very very weird time very transitional time would be the best way to put it 65 uh so he meets a woman named Jane but they're going they're

very traditional these two they're going they're very traditional these two they're not they're he meets it's jimmy and jane from indiana which is like sweaters in their closet sweaters and it's a it's a melon camp b-side yeah where he just said jimmy and jane too alliterative uh we need a diane that's there we go done and fuck jimmy jack it's got a one syllable it's got a run jimmy's too jack. That's it. You can't go Jim and Diane. Yeah, Jim and Diane. That sounds like 50-year-old people. I'd like the second name to have more syllables.

So we're going Jack and Diane so I can hold that second syllable. Okay, good. Now that's better. Now we're going, and a one, two, three. Okay. Thanks, Jimmy and Jane, for the inspiration. And then they get no money. So that's how that works.

Sorry, fuckers. Sorry. That's how it happens man uh so they get married uh within a year of meeting each other in college because she gets pregnant uh with his baby so that's how well i mean at least you don't know who knows jesus christ good point who the hell knows at this point we don't know these people too and on our stories half the time who the fuck knows it might it might be her her uncle's kid who the hell knows who might be john cougar mellicant might be john cougar mellicant in this in this show you never know in this show at any point john cougar mellicant could knock up one of our story participants and it's highly possible that could be part of a story in the future we brought him up so many times i've gotten emails about both sides of his life that

he is a nice guy yeah that he's a piece of shit. Yeah, yeah. But one thing for certain is that his son's a piece of shit. Yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that. I've heard that a million times. That's everybody who keeps saying that. Whatever they say about Mellencamp, the follow-up is his son sucks.

By the way, his son total asshole. And he's with that blonde chick from Sleepless in Seattle now. Meg Ryan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the name. Yeah, that one. That blonde chick. She's in that one movie.

Not every movie for 15 years. She was the lead in every movie for 15 years. Because she was. From Inner Space. Yeah, from that, which is my honestly favorite. My favorite Meg Ryan for sure. My favorite was. From Inner Space. Yeah, from that, which is my honestly favorite. My favorite Meg Ryan, for sure. My favorite Meg Ryan is Inner Space. Or I got to say also.

That's the one. That's the one. What is wrong with me? I'm so tired. Billy Crystal. The fucking. Yeah, that one. Not sleeping since the other one.

Good God damn it. You don't fuck with Mr. Zero. What the fuck is the god damn Harry Met Sally god damn it she's good in that anyway she plays a good kind of stuck up woman in that and lots of other things she's great in inner space because it feels like she's kind of wild

and fun and kind of like she's enjoying acting yeah she looks like she's having a good time she knows it's a goofy movie yeah I think Martin Short's probably seems like he was fun to be around before his wife died. Now he doesn't look so fun to be around. No offense to Martin Short, I'm sure he's very depressed, but if you see him in interviews now,

he's just, the light has gone out of his eyes. I get it. I mean, he loved his wife, and he says that's the problem. But, I mean, Jesus. Come on, Martin. It's funny the way you phrased it. I mean, come on. Even that Netflix thing with him and Steve Martin, it's a little depressing.

His is a little sad. You can just see that he's not the same guy. You can see every moment. That's not a critique. No. I get it. I mean, mentally, I don't know. He's having all these memories about his career, and you know he wants to say, and my wife

was there. But he doesn't want to say my wife because he's going to fucking start the waterworks. Steve's finally going to go, for Christ's sake, she's dead. Marty. Marty, she was a great woman. I thought she was fit. But you got to fucking get over it, pal. This is getting depressing, buddy.

How long has it been, Marty? It's a goddamn comedy show, buddy. At the end of the day, we're trying to make people laugh. Steve Martin should just stand up and be like, would somebody blow the man for Christ's sake? Jesus Christ, somebody just put an arrow thing on his head and go, there, Marty, go dance around for a while. Do that dance that you used to do on Saturday Night Live. Somebody sit down and blow the little fellow.

Jesus Christ, yeah, come on. You don't get to get on your knees to blow Marty short. No. You sit crisscross apples off to blow Marty short. His little Canadian cock comes flopping out. Not that his cock is little because he's canadian he's just that he's a little guy he's just a little childlike man by the way i really like i love martin short i don't know where that came from i he's giving me pounding on him so much entertainment from the and the whole and

pounding on him from a place of we feel so bad for him because clearly his wife's death is affecting his you know and we feel awful for him to be the marty that we love so now we're gonna rip on him unfortunately like idiots because we love him a lot so sorry about that sorry martin short because we know he's obviously an avid listener yeah clearly this is his favorite show he's yeah he's always talking to us hey guys you know if you could shout me out that'd be nice we're like come on marty calm down big guy we get it but uh you gotta fucking get on paypal yeah sorry marty yeah you get on patreon you get a shout out at the end of the show otherwise we can't help you nothing for you nothing for you i'm sorry

so uh amigos was great jimmy and jane did three amigos was wonderful the best movie that him and probably the best movie he was ever in. Oh, man. That's a tough one. That's a tough one. He wasn't even supposed to be in the movie. No, he wasn't. And then he got in and made the movie. Yeah. So good. He was ridiculous. And then obviously you have Steve Martin, who's the base of everything.

The best. And then everyone hates Chevy Chase. Oh, there is going to be some amazing things, revelations coming out about him. Brace yourselves. Oh, I'm sure. He's an awful person that's done horrible things. But all those things have already come out about him.

Oh, it's going to be worse. Have you ever? There's an SNL book about like 20 years of SNL or 30 years, whatever the fuck time it came out. And basically, everybody just talks about what a complete piece of shit he was. He fucking made the gay guy cry in the mid 80s. Fucking, you know, making fucking just horrible, making like mean gay jokes at him, like in the middle of the writer's room.

He's a terrible person. Oh, he hasn't stopped. And not just for that. I mean, Bill Murray punched him in the face right before he went out to fucking host. Literally, they were going to make Bill Murray, your host, Chevy Chase. And when he came back and they were fighting and they had to be separated bill murray's not that kind of guy he literally had he attacked him he's such a terrible person and i always take bill murray's side always if there's a beef and bill murray's on one side of it i don't i don't really need to hear the

other side of it i'm on bill murray's side that's the side i believe so. The stories that you're going to hear are about his most recent job that he had that was huge. High profile job. Community. Yes. As long as the man that was the victim sticks to his guns. And he damn well should because he's probably a bigger star than Chevy Chase right now. Well, interesting. We'll see how that unfolds.

I hope he does. Let's see. Well, never mind Chevy for a moment. Let's get back to Jimmy and Jane. Jimmy and Jane are married in 65 because Jane gets pregnant. A daughter is born in 65 to them, and they name it Jama. They name this poor young lady Jama. J-A-M-A.

Is that like James Jr. as a female? What is that? That's what they're going to call Chutney next. That's what it should be. They went from calling it like a Jam to a chutney now because that sounds fancy. And it'll be jamma next. So she's born in July 65. Five years later, they have a son.

So, I mean, they're just right step, lockstep kind of, you know, middle America 60s values here. They have another son. They have a son in 70 and his name is David. And jamma is always mad at David because she probably tried to suffocate him when he was a baby. 60s values here. They have another son. They have a son in 70 and his name is David. Yeah. And Jemma is always mad at David because she probably tried to suffocate him when he was a baby. David, they couldn't name you something ridiculous. It's mostly she.

She's reminded every time you take a road trip and they stop somewhere and they have those dumb little things with everybody's name on it. And there's she's not finding shit. Wait, the license plate. Yeah. Yeah. There's no points. He's like, there's always plenty of David's everywhere. She's just she's going james and it's gonna be before james but after god damn it never mind

shit they have irma before me yeah what is this but they don't have okay never mind they got irma but no fucking jam no jam so uh that's the year that in 70 jimmy uh grund graduates from law school and he is ready to start practicing law they return to peru the family jimmy and jane and jimmy jane jama and david all return to peru where jimmy finds a job right away it's pretty easy for him to find a job because his father is serving at the time as the county prosecutor. So Jimmy steps right in from college to being the assistant county prosecutor. Lucky dog. Whole life is just a big, whole life is Christmas vacation toboggan thing.

Just sliding. But with a smile. Greased track and happy as can be. Chevy Chase was happy in that. For a minute. For a minute, yeah. For a minute. So yeah, this all goes down.

They move back there. He's working for him. He works from 71 to 78 as the assistant to his father as the county prosecutor. Then Jimmy, once his father retires in 78, he takes over as the county prosecutor. Son of a bitch. The whole life, there's a guy in front of him with a machete just whacking a path. No, no, come on. Is that not smooth enough for you? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me

let me hack that down a little better. They personally have Harrison Ford guiding them through the fucking life jungle. Make sure no thorns get them from the bushes on the side. Really want to get a wide path for him. He needs a wide berth, everybody. Hack it down. So they he once he becomes the county prosecutor

so it's a pretty prominent position. Yeah, he serves as county prosecutor. So that's a pretty prominent position. He serves as county prosecutor from 78 to 82, which is not too bad. And we'll find out what happens in that time because his life kind of changes a little bit on a personal level through that time. Now, for a guy who's been just kind of shoved down a greased up tube of life basically just shot right through it uh he's got to have some kind of release because you can't just go along with what your family does and do all that he likes to drink quite a bit uh not to the point where it's a problem professionally or anything like that a party but to the point where he buys a bar because it's cheaper oh my easier it's the bar he hangs out at all the time. One day he's just like, why don't I just buy this place?

How much? And he just wrote the guy a check and bought the bar. Like a guy that smokes a lot of weed just like buying. I'm going to start selling. I'm just going to start selling. It's just easier. It gives me free weed, I think. That's basically what he did.

Norm bought Cheers. Norm is buying Cheers, yeah, because he's like, Sammy, what do I owe you? And he just goes, well, how much would you take for the whole thing? All right. Well, that's pretty close anyway. Here's mine. I'll just take the bar instead. He also has a pilot's license and has a plane.

And him and his buddies are always going up north on fishing trips all the time. And, you know, he's drinking at the bar. Living it. Living it. Shockingly, this affects his marriage. Weird. Weird, right? You wouldn't imagine. He's drinking at a bar. Living it. Living it. Shockingly, this affects his marriage. Weird. Weird, right? You wouldn't imagine.

He's drinking at a bar so much he has to buy it, and then when he's not drunk, he's flying his friends off to do fishing trips. So shockingly enough, his wife's upset about this, home with two kids. So she ends up bringing up this and how they have problems, and by 1980 they get a divorce. Jane's had enough of this

shit. Jane's had enough of this. The Cougar Mellencamp record shattering on the ground. It's all going to hell right now. He's got a sledgehammer to that white picket fence right now. She's painting this pink house blue. Well, you would think so.

Problem is, and this is the most insane thing ever. Problem here is they get divorced in 1980, but they say that for the sake of the children and for economical reasons, they decide to stay living together. Nope. No. No. No. No.

Why would he do that? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. nope no no why would he do that economic no the money's worth it sir if you have to eat mcdonald's every night and sleep on a deflating air mattress it's worth it trust me because i ate mcdonald's and slept on a deflating air mattress and i just as my body lowered to the ground every night i was just saying this is a very good decision that i've made i'm very happy with this i don't mind falling nope i'm gonna sleep directly on the floor and flat

perfect that's when you wake up i did the right thing no alarm clock needed no as soon as you feel the cold linoleum it's time to wake up i'm up here we go let's get this day started i'm this this is insane and the fucked up part is you're all sitting there going oh okay we're getting right to the murder nope this isn't the murder this is insane. And the fucked up part is you're all sitting there going, oh, okay, we're getting right to the murder. Nope, this isn't the murder. This is not the murder part. You would imagine these people are going to kill each other. Somebody's going to.

Someone's going to die. It's shockingly no. Problem is this arrangement lasts until the summer of 1984 when Jimmy finds another woman. And it starts out as a joke. His friends, he's got a bunch of cop buddies and other prosecutors. They basically, I assume, it looks like the end of the opening credits to Law & Order every week where they're all heading off to some bar to loosen their ties, open up one button, and have a couple of drinks there.

And laugh at whoever they just put away. That's it, yeah, laugh at whoever they just put away. These guys set him up with a woman as a joke in a blind date and uh we'll find out why it's joke in a minute but the woman is a woman named well we'll start out in her beginning we'll tell her we'll tell you what he she's named when he meets her in a second she starts out as suanne sanders she's the complete opposite of him he's had his whole life in just, like we said, a yellow brick road, a greased up yellow brick road with people pushing him in a cushy wheelchair. Paved with smiles and sunshine.

Yeah. When he got his, he's a sophomore in college, gets a woman pregnant. There's no, oh, and then he dropped out of college and got a job. It was, nope, his family took care of it. No to be dropped out of high school dropped out of college took a job at walmart yeah and worked his way up to regional manager and spent his whole life paying off student loans for an education that he doesn't use and then the story would then take place in a trailer right but for this one different thing completely suanne sanders total opposite now jimmy grun's born in 1944 she's born in 1958 uh she's almost 15 years younger than him too like the way the months work

out uh which is she's uh she's completely the opposite she's raised wrong side of the tracks she is one of seven children which uh unless you're like you know one of the duger family or something that that's usually usually a case of poor planning yeah you usually don't see people are that are just like everyone's a blessing every goddamn one that comes a blessing and we're trying to have more yeah you don't that's not the normal it's normally like tie your tubes i'm gonna cut my nuts off i don't care fuck me god damn it six years of being pregnant that's a lot of time that's so much pregnant uh yeah she well her mother dropped out of school her mother's name is nelly uh suanne's mother she dropped out of school

pre-high school to uh work on the farm that work on her family farm as a child so undereducated and under uh economic under economic she is that's not a word she's underfunded we'll call her and her father is an abusive alcoholic steel worker sounds right so yeah a tough guy with a firm handshake you betcha that gets home gets drunk and starts beating the shit out of anybody with an arm's reach so this is a this is a bad cocktail to grow up under this is the total opposite of jimmy who had it made yeah uh she her father like i said very abusive uh she wants to get out of here pre but not even like in high school i can't wait to get out of this prontissimo yeah she is nine being like how do i get out of this goddamn town i don't want to be poor she sees that

there's other people in town they're from the same town so she sees there's another side of town with people with money and that are stable and she wants to be part of that right always and she feels like she's got to get out of this town or else it's never going to happen for her uh good thing for her and uh what she thinks she can use to her advantage is she's got to get out of this town or else it's never going to happen for her. Good thing for her and what she thinks she can use to her advantage is she's a good-looking young lady. And she says, well, I don't have money. I don't have education. I don't have anything going for me as a societal advantage.

Check out these tits. But I'm going to use what I have, my assets that I have to get out of here, which good for you, Whatever you got to do. Yeah. I mean, she has also has some fun, too. I mean, good for you. It's it's you know, she grows up in the 70s, whatever. And whether it's now or then, who gives a shit anyway?

But she she's a little bit she's into the boys to the point where she I don't know if earn is the right word, but she receives a nickname from the boys as a sophomore in high school when she's 15. They they dub her, quote, one night Stan Suan. Not bad. It's it's mean. We don't want anybody to do that. But you got for sophomores that that rhymes. That's not it's pretty intelligent for sophomores. I mean, it's shitty and a shitty thing to do but i'm

impressed they rhymed right that's all my big swing was just like whore you know yeah that's what i mean when you were in how dare i judge somebody for being so sweet to people i was gonna say and not to you it's really the main thing basically you never said that to a girl who no was no who sweetly and gently took her own bra off in front of me. Oh, Jesus. You're digging into the inner psyche of a 15-year-old boy, basically. Not necessarily what they display to the outside world or what they're proud of enough to tell people, but what's in their brains. It's a reptile brain.

It is horrible. That just wants to fucking stick it in things. So you have no idea what's going on inside. The 15-year-old boys are a disaster. They really are. to fucking stick it in things so you have no idea what's going on inside if the 15 year old the 15 year old boys are a disaster they really are they probably are the worst yeah human beings on earth oh absolutely yeah no when i was 15 i should have been probably locked up for everyone myself and everyone else's safety i think the the lucky part is that they aren't quite the most part of them aren't quite mature enough or strong enough to like go act out what they

want to do but some of them are yeah you just have to hope that uh they that they do enough drugs at that point or to repress it all and before their brains close and then they you know locked into that and then they're just burnouts at least they're not aggressive though you gotta hope that happens and hope it doesn't turn to anger and get worse. Oh, boy. The thoughts that they have are terrible. It's terrible. A 15 year old's awful.

We were there. We were awful people. So she gets this nickname, which she's not happy about. I don't fucking blame her. No, no young lady there wants to be called fucking names, especially for, you know, I'm sure the guys weren't calling her that at the time right sure they were real nice to her i'm sure they were very until afterwards and then now she's got a nickname so until she didn't fuck them i always find yeah that's the

thing this wasn't from guys that she no that's what i've never i i couldn't imagine that to then talk that's that's the biggest asshole guys in the world the teenagers that would you know get with the girl and then call them names it's like are you what is wrong with you what is you dare you how dare you what what what happened you were not saying that then motherfucker and also you're ruining it for everybody else shut the fuck up she's not gonna do it anymore that's the 15 year old brain yes that's the 15 year old brain terrible awful meanwhile i'm not gonna say anything to her except for come back yeah reptile brain awful shit so susan uh uh leaves high school at age 17 she drops out of high school and moves 20 miles away this is her big runaway big one 20 miles to the big city of Kokomo, Indiana.

Of Kokomo, Indiana. Beautiful. Which has 45,000 people in it. Really? Yeah, not exactly a booming metropolis, but bigger than Peru. It's thriving compared to Peru. There's more jobs than just at this Circus Hall of Fame showing off Bozo's jockstrap. John Stamos and the Beach Boys are not one of those 40,000.

They're avoiding this place like the plague so uh here she meets a local rock musician speaking of the beach boys uh this guy not nearly the success of the beach boys no unfortunately for both of these young people uh his name is ronnie lovell yeah uh yeah ronnie lovell j Jesus. He is. He's a construction worker by day. Rock musician by night. God damn it. He's going to make it and she's going to help him. So it's always fascinating when these guys like they're doing cover band stuff. You know, probably you have to play somebody else's or just nobody.

Terrible originals. Maybe hear your shit. Play some from somebody else. You have to. I've noticed like bands like that like bar bands that do that yeah you can play like a couple covers and then sneak one of yours in and if it's really good people might go which one is it who says this who's saying exactly but then you you confuse them and they're okay with they're not like what the fuck are they playing

now go back to playing you know whatever horse shit play that led zeppelin again play more sugar ray you know or whatever the drunken idiots in the bar want fucking it's usually journey acdc yeah led zeppelin it's shit that everybody knows it's yeah they play the same shit over and over again how many how many cover bands are fucking huge you know what i mean why did why do they do that sing a song sung by a woman because that's such a different thing that cover bands do. Oh, look at them. They're different. There they go. Oh, boy.

They are singing Jolene. Do you hear that? Can you imagine? Wow. It is really weird hearing a man sing that song. So strange. So strange. Even the White Stripes singing that.

Jack White sounds fucking weird singing about- You're not Dolly Parton. Don't try it. Don't take my man. Calm down, Jack. You're not Dolly. You're not Dolly parton don't try it don't take my man calm down you're not you're just not dolly so stop i don't care what woman tries to sing it or what man you're not goddamn dolly parton who's a sweet angel and when she sings you go you don't take her fucking man god damn it and you couldn't because she's a fucking angel we could talk about this forever so these two get together uh she hangs out she helps like uh

she's like the hanger on to the band and a thing where she like literally helps them haul gear and shit like that sort of thing uh but after three weeks they decide to get married so you want to when you're 17 you want to make rash decisions like dropping out of school and marrying a band guy in three weeks that's a very but that's how much she just wanted to get rash decisions like dropping out of school and marrying a band guy in three weeks that's a very but that's how much she just wanted to get the fuck out of out of this area away from people uh they end up moving to uh they end up moving to uh oklahoma city which is his hometown uh there and uh right after that uh and right out right after they get married so they get married and he's like i'm taking her back to Oklahoma City, the big city.

She's excited because it's bigger than Kokomo. She sees some opportunity there. Problem is, she has a certain personality quirk. Well, let her sister put it. This is from her sister, who knows her kind of best. She tells her sister everything in her whole life. Her sister said, quote, Susan's biggest problem was always sex. Yeah.

And not that that's usually a problem. Or her solution. Or her solution. Yeah. Not that that's usually a problem and fuck whoever you want. Yeah. But if you're married and you just move somewhere with someone, you probably shouldn't fuck everybody you meet then.

That's all I'm saying. You know, not really judging whatever just judging that uh on a personal level it's kind of a dick move now uh what she did is uh he gets a job like i said during the day construction she's trying to do shit at night and uh she just goes on a basically a oklahoma city sexual walkabout beautiful just has because we all know Oklahoma City is the capital of the sexual capital

of the United States. It's basically Thailand, but in middle America. You know how it works there. Anything you want there. Fuck yeah. Any itch you need to scratch, it's in Oklahoma City.

They always say that. And sometimes you get an itch there because of it. I don't think so. So she gets a job as the manager of the apartment complex that they work, that they live in.

And what she does is fuck everybody in the apartment complex. Really? She sees this as just a roster of dick. Is that their job? That's a full service office right there. I live in an apartment complex. I figure they owe me something. Shit.

I mean, your rent is a little high for over there. But he would work his days as a construction worker. Ronnie would come home to his music. He'd come home at night, had no idea. But eventually he ends up finding out because she hooks up with one guy regularly, and he lives three doors down. Hard to avoid. His name is Gary Campbell.

He's 24, so he's seven years older than her. And he's kind of a little bit of a step up. He's a little bit more stable. He's a long-haul truck driver that wears a big cowboy hat and a bigger belt buckle so he's they call him Campbell Gary Campbell cowboy and he just shakes your hand also drive trucks Garth Brooks is a real name that's probably I believe what it is that's how he started beautiful so uh yeah he lived in the same complex three doors down uh eventually ronnie figures this out and says you know what the fuck are you doing and she goes whatever shrugs her shoulders just

moves three doors down takes all her shit and goes three doors down like i don't know fuck off short walk and so that's that's the end of that relationship shockingly a guy you meet marry in three weeks when you're 17 it doesn't work out it's done and done weird right uh yeah so uh she moves right into gary's house or gary's apartment and uh she's quickly pregnant oh boy uh which is a rough uh patch here i don't think that was on purpose uh she's quickly pregnant and um and uh she divorces ronnie level quickly and marries gary campbell so she's positive it's his baby she thinks it's his baby she's pretty sure it's his baby i mean that's what she's telling him anyway we don't know

uh because she definitely also once she got with gary she still continued her her way fucking or fucking she continued her fucking or ways however you want to put it so uh um she has a son named jacob a few months after they get married but her problem is same shit with her uh she is not uh one to be faithful um about twice three times a year at this point she would go back to peru uh back to her hometown to quote see her family and take the baby to see her mom and shit like that but what her mother and her sister said she would do is drop the baby off at the mother and head out and get a fucking wow and uh like i said totally cool to do that except her sister was like you know we get to the bar and it was no secret she

was looking for dudes but she'd order a drink and like not even get the drink before she was walking some guy out the door by the hand that's awesome like it didn't even get to her yet the drink and so she was she was using that as a like a like a spit take afterwards thanks for that shot squish squish squish squirt there you go she's using jaeger to rent it out yeah that's horrible yeah and so get it in there and her sisters were like i mean uh they were all like dude what the fuck because then she would go home and she'd tell her mom about it which is the other weird thing where they found a little odd and And her mom was like, you know, she's like a farm raised as a farm girl in the 40s. She's like, don't tell me all this shit.

She was uncomfortable with it all. I blew him in a Cadillac. Yeah, she was a real Cadillac, a real Cadillac. So, yeah, this is crazy. She would, you know, she put her wedding ring in her pocket the whole deal and go out to do whatever. Yeah, her friends were a little taken aback by it. Her sisters and her mom were a little like, oh, you know, you're a little reckless there. Maybe slow it down.

Maybe calm. He. Wow. This is this is when he would confront her about things like, what are you doing? She would get violent with him and have violent outburstbursts uh at one point she this is messed up she stabbed him in the chest with a pair of scissors gary campbell yeah susan stabs gary campbell in the chest with a pair of scissors and uh next time no yeah there's more jimmy that that's the thing and we'll talk about why there's more in a second here. But he sticks around even with violent, stabby outbursts. And I'll take this line right from this cheesy fucking book I read about this because this is bad writing.

It says once she stabbed him in the chest with scissors. Another time she poked him in the leg with a knife. Nope. That's a stabbing every time yeah you don't poke with knives that's called stabby stabby stab with a person yeah that's that's poked him in the leg that's a stab uh and he stayed with her because uh when she would stab him and he would be you know bleeding out this turned her on and he would do, you know, bleeding out. This turned her on. And he would do like a Henry Hill and Goodfellas like, well, all right. And then he would play everybody's favorite game.

Am I going to come or die first? Which one? Roll them dice. Okay. Oh, I crapped out. I died. What? My arms are a little numb.

I'll keep sucking. No, no, no. Don't you stop. Don't you? Oh, God. That's so. My toes are cold. Oh, my God. I'm going to die. what my arms are a little numb i'll keep sucking no no don't stop don't you stop don't you oh god that's so my toes are cold oh my god i'm gonna die am i gonna die no oh jesus give me an ambulance call it right now 9-1-1 let's go i don't care if it's a fucking eight clowns in an ambulance or out just bring them in here this is ridiculous

uh yeah this is crazy shit that's going on right now that's unbelievable this is so messed up that's how dumb men are that's how dumb men are where we're like all right let me i don't know i'm gonna ride this out it's pretty good she hasn't stabbed me in any you know organs i need right now so hasn't hit anything life-threatening you know that's how it works it's all right for now uh but she grows bored of this because she grows bored she doesn't think that he she's not he's not the lifestyle they're leading is not the one that she wants. She wants a more affluent lifestyle. So she gets a new job at a place called Perry Filters and she hones in on a man there who she thinks is the one for this.

Her her radar is a little crooked, we say because not even crooked she's kind of an asshole let's just put it that way and I'll explain it this guy different guy than she's ever been with before he is college educated he graduated from Rice University he is he was an army captain oh he owns a home he's a different cat than than anybody else that she's been with he resigned his army commission in 81 due to a head injury, suffered in a car accident. So that's the only reason why he's not in the army anymore. He's working in this factory with her. And you would think, why is this wrong?

I mean, sure, she's married. But outside of that, I mean, what's wrong about her liking this guy? Problem with that is he's married. Not only is he married, he's married uh not only is he married he's married to the daughter of the man who owns this factory oh my god not only is he married to the daughter of the man who owns his factory the daughter of the man who owns his factory who he's married to also uh has leukemia and it's not going well it's not a light not that that's a light but i mean it's a it's not a light batter it's a heavy she's really coated in leukemia she's got a light, not that that's a light, but I mean, it's a, it's not a light batter. It's a heavy, she's really coated in leukemia.

She's got a lot of problems. Uh, the sauce has a lot of butter. It's a lot in there. So it's, it's, you know, this is not the guy you want to push up on at this point. It's just kind of shitty as a human being to do, uh, in general. Yeah. He's, they have a little boy also, uh, him, him and Cheryl, his wife was leukemia. They have a little boy also. Him and Cheryl, his wife, who has leukemia, they have a little boy together. I mean, this is a terrible, tragic situation that she's going, I can turn this to my advantage.

Yeah. Cheryl ends up dying of leukemia shortly after she kind of hones in on Tom. His name is Tom Whited, W-H-I-T-E-D. So she hones right in on tom his name is tom whited w-h-i-t-e-d yeah uh so uh she hones right in on that and the factory owner the gerald's father is not happy about this no i can imagine it's like my daughter just died could you not grope her on the floor right on the assembly room floor because you'd maybe not do that in front of the other employees kind of uh you know unsettling let's just say so yeah this is terrible i they have but tom i see now this is tough because i this is like the martin short thing if you love somebody and

they die and now you're you have a little boy that's a three-year-old boy and and no and she's dead and you live in the house that the father bought you guys as a wedding present that's all full of your memory like i don't know what the what the where my brain would go with that. And it might be to fill in the void. Sure. Possibly. So for from his 70s, early 80s. Yeah.

From his point of view, he's got to just be like, Jesus Christ, you know, I got to plug somebody into this hole because it's a huge hole in my life here. And who knows? So as soon as that Cheryl is dead, dead though she has moved right into this whole deal uh pushes hard for tom and uh uh she once cheryl's been dead for about six months uh susan ends up even though she's a married woman she moves into the house with him and everything so it's uh yeah she takes custody of jacob in fall of 82 and they drive to austin texas and get married oh boy uh tom and susan do and with their two kids who are three months apart in age yeah uh she spent her 24th

birthday on her third honeymoon which is fucking interesting that's unbelievable that's crazy that's tough stuff man that's tough yeah she's she's she's lived hard so far really really she has it's been a tough life for her and she's trying to make her life a little bit more comfortable here. The house they live in is really nice. It's right up by, it's a three minute walk from a lake. Really nice lake. It's a really nice neighborhood. It was a present from a wealthy,

from the wealthy father-in-law. Wedding present. So, you know, it's a totally different life she's never led before. She's crushing it. She's gone from trailers to apartments to, you know, the cab of dude's truck or whatever, who the hell knows, to now this. And apart from three marriages at 24, she's doing okay. She's trying to figure it out anyway for herself.

Yeah, I mean, she's got a kid to provide for and everything now. So the weird thing is, rather than explain to people what was going on she just had both the kids call her mommy and dress them like twins oh no even though they're not even fucking related you can't do that that is so my mom did that shit to me and my stepbrother and we are three months apart are you okay and then not related and he's fat well he was fat and like really fat and his name's they called us spaghetti and meatball and then later in life called us timon and pumba thanks disney you fucking jerks you can't put a fat guy and a skinny guy together in a fucking cartoon that kids are gonna see that's expect those guys not to

be found somewhere in the school yeah they're gonna they're gonna find a uh an analog it hurt a little bit at least you weren't meatball. Yeah. One way to look at it. At least I wasn't po-mo. At least you were spaghetti. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that seems less insulting. It seems like they were more insulting him through you. Yeah.

So, I don't know. He did take the brunt of that. Yeah, I think he took the brunt of that. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. He's a big boy. He could take it. Yeah.

It's worse to be fat and poor than it is to be thin and poor as a child. It really is. Well, I was only thin and poor because i couldn't fucking afford to eat yeah that's yeah i was pudgy and poor the best of both worlds my stepbrother's just fat because his dad's fat he just got bad genetics son so man he's having these kids they're twin she's just telling people they're twins which is weird as shit. And all goes well for a few months. It seems like, you know, for Tommy, he's like, we just replaced it. It's kind of an idyllic little thing, a built-in little family. Until little Tommy, who is the Tom's son.

Little Tommy enters the Oklahoma City hospital with a fractured skull after three months of Susan living in the house. Susan is freaking out. She was watching the kids and she's crying her eyes out, telling everybody how she walked out of the room for a minute and he fell down and this happened and she feels terrible. Obviously, if you're watching someone else's kid and you turn around and they crack their skull open, you're going to feel fucking awful about it. Like a monster that you didn't do their job and you could have done better and blah blah blah tommy on the other hand uh he he had a different explanation for what happened uh when he came out of his you know unconscious state a nurse asked him what happened to you tommy

and his reply was quote my mommy hit me oh no which uh his mommy certainly didn't hit him yeah but this lady fucking probably did. But the hospital, they're so concerned about this, obviously, that they do nothing whatsoever. They do nothing. They don't report it to the police. Dicks. What?

He's three and he got hit in the fucking head with a Zeno. Jesus Christ. Not a reliable witness. Sorry. Can't believe that kid. Can't believe this kid's funny. Can't believe a three-year-old with a head injury. He's a little loopy. Let's just say that here.

Just give him back to his parents is what they do. Fuck does he know? Yeah. So they just give it. This is after he's in the hospital for several days. This isn't like went to the emergency room. All's fine. Here you go.

Take him back. He's in the hospital for days. Oh, boy. And they just give him back with no investigation, no anything. And at this point, too, friends of the family are saying that Tommy is acting like a different kind of kid. Well, yeah, he's not as happy go lucky anymore. Brain damage.

That's the other problem here. Who knows what's going on? It's it's it's terrible. It's so they're just they're wondering if maybe it's the head injury or what's happening. And then it becomes a little bit clearer. Four months later, May of 1983, Tommy is back at the hospital again, a little bit clearer four months later may of 1983 tommy is back at the hospital again a little tommy and this time he's unconscious and he has a brain hemorrhage oh no this is bad stuff here now susan on the other hand she has explanations for this she first of all

you know i've had two kids i've raised them None of them had fractured skulls twice in four months. No. Ever. None of them ever had a fractured skull. As a matter of fact, I have a staunch record of never having a child fracture their skull under my care. Samesies. And they might fall. Kids fall all the time.

I could see it happening once, twice in four months. You fucking watch that kid after he already fractured his skull. My son split his head open. Oh, yeah. Falling out of one of those bouncy houses. Eyebr yeah same thing fell downstairs and bones intact not not bro yeah not broken so uh she has an explanation she tells these people that over the course of a few days he's had several accidents first of all he fell out of a shopping cart right onto his head oh my that was a few days ago right just bang right on his fucking like a missile to the ground pow uh also uh she he was playing and he

fell and hit his head another time he was walking he tripped over the corner of the table fell down hit his head and then finally uh he was playing with the dog and the dog cut him off and he fell over the dog right on his head obviously you could see it totally yeah total dickhead dog yeah they do that on purpose they're assholes like that they're like i'm gonna fuck this kid up they take your legs out it's pretty it's rough you got to be careful what kind of dog you get that's the problem just an asshole dog so you got to watch out for those uh this time the doctors aren't buying her explanation uh this time they're like well it's been twice in four months let's take it Let's investigate a little further. And they do a complete examination of Tommy

and their report says that his injuries, quote, indicated sadistic beatings over a sustained period. They found bruises to his head, torso and limbs. Oh, my God. Along with explain this along with multiple cigarette

burns on this poor child's body. I hate to laugh. Fuck, that's horrific. It was the dog. It was the dog. Obviously. Clearly the dog. Fucking dogs.

You give them cigarettes and they burn the kids. They're total dicks, man. Fucking assholes. Just a root piece of shit. Just a dick, yeah. I feed you, you dickhead. Stop hurting my child. Some horrible dog.

Some horrible fucking French poodle, I'm sure. That's the one. That's what it was. Just smoking. It's like, fuck your kid. I don't care. He will fall over me, fracture his skull, kiss my fucking ass. I don't care.

Ashing. Ashing. Listen, your kid can fuck himself. That's all I'm saying. I don't care for the kid, for anything people do around the house. You put my food in the bowl. I poop sometimes outside. And maybe I kill your child.

I don't care. He burns the kid. See that? That's how little I care for your child. Puts the cigarette on him and with his little paw just stamps it out of his neck. I don't care. That's how little I care for your child. Fuck your child.

Fuck him. He's a dickhead French poodle. I wish that happened in crime and sports so he could be a character. How is it you've come to arrive here, you piece of shit? But that's what I see when I look at a French poodle. That's exactly what I see. That's what he's thinking. That's why I can't. That's exactly what I see. Till he's thinking. That's why I can't love him.

I don't know how to love that dog. Fuck you. I don't need your treats. I don't need anything you have to offer. I poop where I want to. You don't pet me. You don't pet me unless I come and say, pet me now. And then you pet me immediately.

I will rub this puff on your arm. That's all. Every time. This animal. at me immediately i will rub this puff on your arm every time so uh this kid this poor kid uh from this now by the way detectives at this point talk to jacob yeah her other son or her son and they say uh you know what's going on jacob tells blows up his mother's spot and says she hits tommy all the time she just comes in the room and beats him for no reason and i'm scared that he's gonna get beat up for no reason because no kid wants to see another kid get the shit beat out of him that's terrible so that's traumatic so uh little tommy though here is left

brain damage oh my god and bedridden from this brain injury forever forever this kid is completely done this kid she has fucking vegetized this kid yeah no more why he's bedridden and brain damaged vegetized for life this fucking kid this is horrific uh luckily the this time the police are involved obviously they charge her with felony assault and several other unrelated or several other related counts to this yeah the the factory owner her you know his this boy's dead mother's father is pissed as you might imagine she he wasn't real happy about this relationship to begin with and now he's really not happy about it he wants her prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law

and he wants to choke his former son-in-law to death basically because he blames his son-in-law he's like i don't know this bitch but know better. You could have fucking kept a monster out of your house, you asshole. Yeah, but I don't know if he knows about stabbing fuck or not. But like, yeah, but you don't understand. You don't get it, man. So the problem is the authorities in Oklahoma, they said that basically it's a hard thing to prove. Sure. basically it's a it's a hard thing to prove sure child abuse and a lot of these jurors think that uh you know uh they called it quote in provincial beliefs about childbirth they're

saying you know kind of rural people's like yeah sometimes you gotta beat the shit out of your kid maybe it might go too far but you you know she was doing the right thing uh that's their the prosecutor said they were afraid of that attitude prevailing, so they ended up letting her plead guilty to a single count of child beating, which sounds like that would be a competition in Oklahoma to see who's the best at it. You got an award for it? My daddy's the best child. He won the child beating trophy. It's a golden belt. Four straight years.

He beat my ass. In third place gets the bronze switch oh that's a good one the bronze switch it's heavy it really gets you good but a single count of child beating to that which is a permanent vegetative state gets uh child beating and a five-year suspended sentence she does no time for this not even one one day. Kids a vegetable, no time. Wow. Fucking unbelievable. That was the plea. Yeah. Luckily, little Tommy, his care is entrusted to the grandfather, the factory owner, who

uses all of his great wealth to do nothing but try to comfort his grandson. Flies in specialist, takes him to anything that could possibly help his grandson in any way, shape, or. Spare no expense. Try to help him. So it is horrific, which I mean, that's your dead daughters. It's your only link to your dead. Good fucking God. That's got to be horrible for this guy.

It's got to be terrible here. And also at this point, custody of Jacob is transferred back to Gary Campbell because she's a felonious child. Yeah. So, you know, that sort of thing here. scramble because she's a felonious child yeah so you know that sort of thing here uh but so obviously you think tom probably kicked her the fuck out of that house and said i'm done with you no stayed with her what that's that's how good that's how good she is how good and how dumb how just dumb men are unbelievable yeah so you can stab him you she can stab you she can beat your child into a permanent vegetative state right and. And you're like, all right.

You just shrug. All right. Keep sucking. Keep sucking. That's how fucking dumb men are. Wow. Wow. This is goddamn insane.

Finally, after almost a year of this, Tom can't take the pressure from the outside anymore and he has to break up with her. His mother stopped talking to him. His family ostracized him and nobody would talk to him he was known as the pariah of town who let a monster beat his son into a fuck into a piece of broccoli and then fucking stayed with her everywhere he goes they're probably like you still with that bitch yeah he's still with that fucking asshole murderous twat bitch they can't get enough fucking foul names for her she almost

killed this kid for christ's sake and he's like that's fine what is wrong with you not only just as a father but as a goddamn person if you really the fuck so she moves back to peru she's got nowhere else to go she moves back home with her family in peru oh one little problem one little caveat to this she's pregnant again yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. She is again pregnant. She comes in. Dangerous. Yep. Comes on in pregnant. She's still not really showing. So she goes out and hits the town just as she always does. Yeah. Trying to find guys, trying to find something, you know, trying to keep trying to keep it trying to keep it going. She needs to find somebody to help with this is what she's telling her friends and stuff, too.

And at a local bar, she meets a bunch of cops and prosecutor guys that she starts to hang out with a little bit. And they say, you know, it would be hilarious if we set this pregnancy chick up with Jimmy Grun on a blind date. He's going to walk in and be like, oh, ha ha, guys. Thanks a lot. There's a pregnant woman you set chick up with jimmy grun on a blind date he's gonna walk in and be like oh ha ha guys thanks a lot right there's a pregnant you know pregnant woman you set me up with ha ha uh problem is when they set her up with this jimmy grun uh they sit down he goes and jokes on you assholes i don't care how pregnant she is she's not gonna be pregnant forever she'll always be 15 years younger than me i'm taking this this is terrific uh he's 39 she's 25 and this is you know 14 years difference this is uh he's totally happy she's way more attractive

than anybody else that he's usually messing around with um and for her this is what she wants he's a sophisticated guy he's got a plane for christ's sake he owns the bar yeah he's the he's the county prosecutor prosecutor still at this point. This is right as he ends his reign as county prosecutor, right after that. Is that a voted position or is that appointed? I believe that's a voted one, county prosecutor. Wow. I believe that's a voted one.

It might be different from state to state. But either way, I think it's... But if your father was that and you go in line, people just... No one gives a shit. Unless the prosecutor has some scandal, they don't know anything about him yeah it's like yeah sure great yeah whatever incumbent i'm in yeah i'm afraid to kill anyone that helps prosecute me so i guess he's doing a good job so uh yeah they're they're uh together and and like i said he's more sophisticated he owns a goddamn plane he's got a big house he's a he's a lawyer he was a he's everyone in town shows a massive respect and she's like the big house. He's a lawyer. He's everyone in town.

Shows him massive respect. And she's like the kid from the other side of the tracks that's kind of impressed by this. In the town that she's born in. That's the other thing. This is like she's looking. These are the neighborhoods where she went, wow, I can't even. Oh, man, what happens in there? That's what happens in there.

People like him are born and move in there. I used to blow dudes behind the trees over there, and now'm in this big old house yeah this is insane so uh yeah she she liked she liked all of that thing uh now uh she ends up uh uh wanting to be with him uh within a few months they're together he's standing in as the father during the delivery of her of her daughter uh named tanel jesus which uh they're not good at naming girls in the story at all. They're really bad at it. They're bad at it. Jamma and Tenelle, which sounds like-

And Sue Ann. And Sue Ann. Well, Jamma and Tenelle sound like stage names for two chicks in like Gem or something. I'm Jamma and I'm Tenelle. We're Gem, whatever. Wildly outrated. Spice Girls names. Yeah, yeah.

The cut Spice Girls. B-side Spice Girls. When they go on the road and two of them can't Girls names. Yeah, yeah. The cut Spice Girls. B-side Spice Girls. When they go on the road and two of them can't make it. Sorry, guys. Sporty and Baby couldn't make it tonight, but in their place, we have Jam and Tenelle. Everyone just kind of goes, yay. Okay, I guess. I liked Baby.

I don't know which one you like. I liked Sporty. She was my favorite my favorite yeah she was cool sporty yeah she's always wearing the same shit i was yeah we could have she could just share my clothes yeah that's true that's true there's something about the chicken basketball shorts that's kind of hot too i dig it yeah i don't know what that is maybe i'm just into lesbians i don't know but there's something about a chicken basketball shirt. I think it's cool. It's pretty hot. It is. I'm not kidding.

It makes me feel like we just finished and she didn't want to put that dress back on because that's not comfortable. So you automatically project it onto you. I love that. I put it onto... That's how dumb men are, once again. The name of this episode should be, that's how dumb men are. That's how dumb we are. We project it onto ourselves. Jesus Christ, we're should be That's How Dumb Men Are. That's how dumb we are. We projected onto ourselves.

Jesus Christ, we're terrible. That's amazing. So after the baby's born, within a few days, they take the baby, they travel down to Florida and get married. All right. These two. So she is moving in lock, stock, and barrel. Right now.

Within five months, she is married into this family. Yeah. Within five months, she is married into this family. Yeah. Now, they said, or she said, I should say, Susan tells everyone that Jim's son, David, who's now 15 years old, remember he was born in 1970, he starts acting up around this time. Sure. She says it was a lot of typical teenage stuff, breaking curfew and just fighting with his dad a lot, which teenage boys tend to do.

They tend to challenge the authority. He's 15. He's 15. She said there was, quote, a lot, which teenage boys tend to do. They tend to challenge the authority. He's 15. He's 15. She said there was, quote, a lot of harshness between Jim and David. So that's whatever. That's not surprising. Now, in the early months of the marriage, her first goal is to regain custody of her son, Jacob, who is now living with Gary Campbell. As we remember, he took custody back.

Jimmy Grund is the perfect guy to help out with this. He's an attorney with money, lots of attorney friends. He knows the law. You can't get any better. Slam dunk. Slam dunk. Of course, while he's doing all of this, he uncovers, oh, what is this felony child beating? In five months, she didn't tell him that?

Never told him about it. Not once. Not once. And then she has excuses for it, too. She says that, you know, no, no, that's crazy. child beating she didn't in five months she didn't tell him never told him not once not once and then she has excuses for it too she says that you know no no that's crazy he was a rich guy the father-in-law was this rich factory owner and he had a lot of power and uh you know over it's hard for him to understand through his balls that's the problem it over the prosecution and it was very difficult he goes oh i get it okay it got

clearer when she was picking the hair out of her teeth but yeah funny enough he just says all right shoulder shrugging all right keep sucking keep that's how dumb men are this is insane unbelievable and sorry guys out there to keep saying that's how dumb men are but every fucking man's an idiot in this story what are we doing as a whole and a lot of us and we understand the mindset we're not just going what is he doing we're going i kind of get it i sort of this is crazy i might do the same depending on the time how dumb men are we are stupid all of us when when sex is involved yeah our fucking brains go out the window and it's it's the goddamn truth so, this guy ends up, what he does is he doesn't contact the Oklahoma authorities to get more clarification on it.

He just believes her and instead gets a hold of Gary Campbell and says, I did a little research. I understand you're in a bunch of debt. Now I can help you with that debt by paying all of it off and I'll get you a job with a guy I know in oklahoma city all you have to do is sign your son away sign the rights to your son away and he went all right shit yeah signed it away drove off in the big rig he's basically like an over the top when fucking robert loja presents sly with this you gotta sign this i'll give you a truck if you get the hell

away from my grandson and sly just just went, yeah, that sounds good. The kid's been a pain in my ass the whole fucking time. Here you go. Have a good one. And took the keys and left instead of going to the arm wrestling tournament. Way worse movie at that point. Much more realistic. Much more realistic, though. Yeah.

Yeah. I haven't seen him. Let me get this straight. I haven't seen him in 12 years anyway. Right. And now you're going to give me a half a million dollars to not see him no more well yeah i don't know why i wasn't gonna see him anyway i don't know what the problem is sure why not hey you know this guy's gotta get ahead in life so uh yeah so they end up uh he gets him a job there and uh this is how this works susan takes jacob

back and uh campbell ends up finding another woman and he's happy. They move away somewhere. So summer of 1986, Jimmy and Susan and their son, Jamma and Tennell and Jacob and Jamma might be in college by now. They all move into a big custom built brand new home that Jimmy has built on the edge of a big wooded lot in Peru. This is exactly what she's always wanted. She has the beautiful house in the beautiful neighborhood. He opens up a clothing store for her called Clothes by Susan, where she now tells all

the rich ladies how to dress. So she's gone from wrong side of the tracks, just wishing she could not be there to now. She's not only on the right side of the tracks, but telling everyone how to behave on that side of the tracks. As a matter of fact, this would be grace if this was crime and sports. Absolutely. She's reached her peak and the whole,

everyone has here now, uh, later on in this, just to give you a hint into Susan's personality, because outside of the fact that she likes to fuck people, we haven't really given you a whole lot. And she beats a kid. You can tell a lot of her character by her actions,

but we haven't heard a lot from her. This is what someone said later on. They said, well, Jimmy had a lot going for him. And why do you think he married you? Why do you think he was interested in you, even though you had problems and you were pregnant and you had a bunch of marriages? And she this is a wow uh quote when you take in a bird with a broken wing and nurse it back to health even after it's better you don't want to

let it go because you've fallen in love with it because it sings so pretty so what an asshole she does not live in reality basically and that's like the eighth version of that yeah yeah so people have asked her that a bunch and the very first time she said because i'm like a bird a swallow bang mic drop and it's over and everyone's like oh i get it i know just i get it yeah so that i think you're onto something, Jimmy. Jesus Christ, that's awesome. But they're a big part of society, man. They're hosting parties for all the big shots in town, and she's telling everybody and telling them what's wrong with their dresses and shit.

I mean, this is her whole entire thing here. In 1989, she enters the Mrs. Indiana America pageant in Indianapolis, so she's got a lot of confidence in herself. How'd she do? She was never Mrs. Indiana America, so probably not well. She did not win, I would say, because in the story, nowhere did it say she won the 1989 Mrs. Indiana. She was in it, I will say, entered it. Maybe she should have blown some judges. Well, that's what I mean.

Well, she figures that out later. We'll talk about it. So she's in her 30s, but she keeps herself in great shape, and she dresses well, and she's keeping herself going, so much so that she's very confident in her body, which good for fucking her, man. You should be. She has, when they move into this giant house first thing she has done before she picks out furniture before anything like that she has a giant huge oil painting commissioned of her nude so that's number one we gotta get we got we gotta get my titties on the

wall and then we can deal with the couch situation and get ourselves a bed and her friend said when they came over for the first time for see the house, everybody gives a tour. They said the tour began right from the front door to the oil painting. They were like, oh, that's a nice kitchen. She was like, no, no, no, my pussy's this way. Let's go. It's on the, come here. Look, see, there we go.

I have a nice landing strip. I've shaved it. Well, check it out. You've made cookies. That's nice. Can we have one? Yeah, right. Speaking of cookies, I want to show you something real you something i got something to show you guys so uh yeah this is uh problem is

too you would think okay well at least though she's getting a good marriage and all that she never stopped fucking everybody she's known by the way this whole time this is going on she's building her her society cred up she's also fucking everybody and they're a high profile couple that everybody knows and it's a lot of rumors around town of course uh yeah plus she would share graphic details of these encounters with her mother and her sister and her friends and all these fucking people uh they said the main people were an accountant from the next town uh a local cop that knew j well, the pastor from the Baptist church, which is pretty fucking awesome.

How did she figure that out? She casts a wide net, I would say. It's just, has a dick. It's fucking great. That's what I'm fishing for. Don't give a shit. Cops, accountants, pastors, totally different fucking people completely. She doesn't really have a type, this one.

Cock, that's her type. Yeah, has a cock so uh a couple friends just friends of her husband's uh friends of her friend's husband like her friend's husband she's fucking with like just her friends like oh i like her husband i'm gonna get with him ruining ruining other people's marriages or they are i guess they both are yeah as a combination everybody is uh yeah one night stands with people in indianapolis a lot too she'd go up she would tell her sister she'd go up for the weekend and she's just like man it is gonna be fucking dickathon 89 in that hotel room boy it is just gonna be a festival of cock through

there and she tells them that like i can't wait to see how many dudes i can find this weekend wow yeah it's she is not shy about this shit whatsoever. She could have made a boatload of money in porn with the Indianapolis 500. She could have crushed it. Fuck, man. Do they have that copyright? She could do the Indianapolis 499. 499. The Indianapolis 69 is what she would have done.

It's a small town and they're super prominent so everyone hears about this and she's fucking half the people so they obviously know about it jimmy ends up hearing the gossip too in 1990 jimmy's own mother confronts him with gossip no she's like 80 years old if an 80 year old quote heard gossip it's out it's just out there yeah who the hell are they talking to the word is on the street word is on the street. The word is on the street, man. Was it her pastor? Because 80-year-olds, they just go to the grocery store and church.

So it was either the butcher. The bank, the post office. There's like four people she could have been told to spy. Not many people. Or the pastor himself. That's true. Yeah. Praise Jesus.

You smell like my daughter-in-law. Why do you smell like her? Oh, you should smell my cock because it smells like her pussy. She smells like them candles. Where do I smell those candles? Oh, church. That is church candles. I don't know if Baptists have candles.

I think that's just Catholic probably. Maybe. I don't fucking know anything about religion. So moving on. Basically, he was confronted with these rumors and said, all right, I just didn't care. Didn't say shit. Everything went on fine until the summer of 1992 now this is when jimmy's kind of had it uh he starts complaining

to his friends openly about uh about her about susan the state of his marriage he says that not only is she not faithful at all and she's he's saying to people. She's fucking. You know what I mean? Like, she's not faithful. They're like, really? Wow, that's terrible. Like, he can't have a group of five people around that she hasn't slept with one of them. So it's really difficult to have these conversations. That's horrible.

They argue in public. They argue like in public. They're seen arguing. They argue in private. He complains that not only is she having a bunch of affairs she spends just exorbitant amounts of money on jewelry and cars and lingerie and just shit that they that he feels that is just too much just not needed uh they argue all the time there's they start seeing a marriage counselor in 92 jimmy brings up divorce and marriage counseling quite a bit and susan is

always not doesn't want any part of it she always not doesn't want any part of it. She says she doesn't want any part of it. She tells her friends that she fears she fears basically that she would be reamed in a divorce because he has resources and legal knowledge and friends who are lawyers and all that and that she would not get her fair share and whatever. So but he wanted out. So but he wanted out. And in mid-July of 92, he actually goes to a lawyer friend of his and has papers drawn up and says he's going to tell her he wants a divorce. He's going to end it. He says this is in mid-July 92. He says that they're coming in August, August 1st. Her and her kids come home from Alaska. They're going on a vacation when they get back.

I'm telling her I want a divorce and amending it. So he's expecting that to happen august 1st now uh he decides to wait during this time unbeknownst to jim uh to jimmy uh susan on july 4th of 92 had a little run-in with jim's son david yeah okay now david at this point is 22 years old he lives on his own he has a house and a girlfriend he's going to college. He's doing all this shit, right? So Susan stops by David's house unannounced on July 4th. Fourth of July, she's out and about. She was going to do some things for a barbecue.

She went to the fairgrounds. She said she was coming home from the fairgrounds, and weirdest thing, she found a new shortcut home, even though she grew up here and has lived here for years and probably knows how all it's a small town. It's a five point two square mile town. It's not like you're finding new. I never knew that road was there. Very few. Yeah, you did. Everyone knows that road is in five square miles.

You can't find many roads that you've never seen before, especially a new shortcut. And she said, weirdest thing is about the shortcut. It goes right by your house. How strange is that? Yes that yes super weird didn't even have to go through the woods so strange so she just says just thought i'd stop by and say hi and also i wanted to ask you she says i'm interested in i'm buying a gun i want to just start target practice i want to start shooting and i heard you bought a gun recently right and he said yeah i bought a new nine millimeter it's really nice and she said do you mind if i just take a look at it to see if maybe that's what i want to look at i don't know if it's going to be too big for i'm you know you

i'm a bird i sing pretty and swallow and everything but i don't have a lot of firearm experience so uh he said she said do you mind if i hold it and he's like i yeah sure i mean that sounds reasonable she's thinking about buying one i have have one. That seems normal. So he says, sure, no problem. And while he's getting the gun, she's looking around. She goes, man, by the way, I see your locks broken on your door there to the front of the house. Is that, you know, you got a shoelace wrapped around it. That doesn't seem safe. And he goes, oh, it's a really safe neighborhood. Nobody's going to break in here. I'm not worried about that. And he said, said you know plus i have a rottweiler right that too and she said i know you have a rottweiler by the way that's the other thing i wanted to ask you when you guys leave the house

you guys just like leave the rottweiler out or do you put it in a cage or what and then she tests the gun yeah and then she goes thanks and leaves and the girlfriend comes out of the bathroom goes who was here and he's just sitting on the couch you know just my stepmom she came by just hang out and ask me you know some murdery questions and then she's taking off so the colts are on so shut the fuck up god damn it it's the fourth of july we ain't got no baseball in indiana yeah it's it's reggie miller and rick schmidt's playing one-on-one baseball that's all we got in in in july they are contracted for life to entertain us and reruns of of the colts game of the colts game from 40 years the one that we won right so uh yeah she they think that's super

weird and what they what david and his girlfriend think is even weirder is later on they go out for fourth of j July festivities. They come home about 10, 30, 11 at night and their fucking house has been broken into. Same day? Same day. Fourth of July. That is weird. Door wide open.

Now, there is jewelry and cash in plain sight, untouched. The fucking Rottweiler sitting there, happy as can be. One thing is missing. Uh-oh. The gun. Oh, boy. Shocked, right? That's weird. Yeah. Well, I did tell you the Rottweiler was there, happy as can be. One thing is missing. Uh-oh. The gun. Oh, boy. Shocked, right? That's weird.

Yeah. Well, I did tell you that Rottweiler was there, so I couldn't. You couldn't have been confused. It wasn't the shoestring? It wasn't the shoestring. She stole my shoelace. Damn it. One thing to break in, but don't steal my lock.

So the gun is gone. So David, though, is thinking this has to be the craziest coincidence in the world. Yeah. Because from his point of view, this is his stepmom who's like this society lady. And his point, he doesn't know that she was fucking white trash and blew her away into the town. She has no idea. It's just his stepmom. And she has enough money.

Why would she break into my house and steal a gun? Yeah. They have all of them. She could buy 10, buy 10 9 millimeters right now certainly it's just stupid so he doesn't even really mention that to the cops because why would he why doesn't want them to go in the wrong direction and we had his stepmother which is obviously not the person so he has to report it though so he does he reports it missing and that's that uh goes on she never brings it up to her never anything like that uh so that that ends up happening now august 1st this is uh august 1st she returns from her trip to alaska with the kids and jimmy's supposed to tell her about the divorce

and have her served with papers and all that good shit now august 3rd comes around now we don't know if he told her about the divorce or not. We'll never know that. The only people that know that are Jimmy and Susan and possibly whoever Susan decided to fuck that night. So anyway, August 3rd. Now, Jacob, her son, is spending a night with one of his cousins. And her daughter has one of her cousins coming over to spend the night there. So she's doing a bunch of kid shit. It's August 3rd, so it's summer vacation kids are all occupied kids are all occupied

doing things uh about 10 o'clock at night she leaves the two boys at a campground with some other parents that they were having like a kind of a camp out yeah i don't know marshmallow fucking roast and weenie poor shit who knows what the hell people do in Indiana. The worst. So she's driving back and forth doing kid shit is what she says. And she's got a lot of time that's just gone where she's driving here, driving there, where nobody sees her. So Jim's night, that night, Jimmy Grun came home from work. He had a lot of work still to do. So he ends up falling asleep on the couch with papers, work papers on his chest. I mean, he's, you know, he's working very hard that night.

So about midnight comes around and the Miami County emergency phone system here receives a call from Susan requesting an ambulance. She said that she found her husband lying on the couch in the bedroom with blood coming out of his eyes and mouth. Oh, boy. Which is a bad sign, usually. Usually, my husband's bleeding from the eyes. They don't just go, put a rag on it. He'll be fine. That's a different thing. So obviously, 911 hears blood coming out of eyes and mouth, and they're there pretty quickly. That ends up happening. Yeah, we'll hurry. We'll blow the red lights for this one. We're on our way. So they get in there. The police are looking around.

The ambulance automatically contacts the police when they see it's a gunshot wound, more than likely. And we'll talk about what wound it was. They call the police. And now the craziness begins here because he's a prosecutor. He was the county prosecutor. So everybody knows him in law enforcement. So everybody comes over to take a peek. Every cop in town, lawyers, detectives.

So she starts freaking out. Susan calls her mom and her sister, and they all come over. There's people fucking everywhere. Everybody but the mayor is here, Jimmy. There's a real circus in there. I'm not going to lie. Sorry. I couldn't't know son of a bitch i enjoy it it's a real circus in there man it's going on and uh people are juggling it's

it's a fucking disaster teenagers are juggling it's a mess there's a bear on a fucking unicycle yeah it's just with the greatest showman whipping him. So, yeah, one of them is fucking squirting or calling her a horrible pointing or oil painting. Hor. And it's Hugh Jackman, that motherfucker. That's right. So the emergency room people are the emergency medical people. Obviously, they see that he's gone already and has been gone for a while now. So she's telling him to do something. And he said, well, your husband's gone, ma'am. Sorry. She says now this is she has advanced medical science thousands of years, at least with her way of reviving him.

She says, quote, no, no no just give him some oxygen and some blood he'll be fine it's fine you don't know how to do your job clearly try sucking his dick yeah it works every time it's like it's like it's like priming the carb on a lawnmower it's like pressing that little bit and then it'll start right up he'll come up right off right up and uh yeah he'll he'll do better work tomorrow as a matter of fact, he's well rested. Patch him right up. So yeah, this is a fucking mess, obviously here. All sorts of shit's going on.

She has a theory while the police are there. She has a theory. She says, oh, he's on the couch. Work on him. Gunshot wound to the head. Okay, I know what happened. Now around the room, everything is kind of askew. It's like if you were shooting a piss-poor sitcom

and you told the set decorator, make it look like somebody ransacked the place. Just knock that over and pull some clothes out of a drawer and leave it open. But nothing's missing. There's money and jewelry in plain sight. Nothing's missing. But she says, I see what happened here guys now

homicide detectives pay attention here because i'm about to school you uh listen up i'm willem defoe listen yeah in uh in what was a fucking stupid bar movie with the kids i don't know boondocks yes yeah i'm about to show you everything that happened right now yeah i got this uh here's what happened obviously clearly any layman could see this yeah uh robbery taking place they were ransacking the place clearly if you see by these strewn about clothes uh jim walked in caught them yeah they got scared shot him in the head and he gently laid down on the couch and put his work on top of his chest and went to sleep very gently and died by a huge friggin guy just yeah that's what happened yeah perfect yeah so yeah this time they're obviously like oh yeah

that's that's great because you know homicide detectives they obviously are looking for theories from others from outside places she just says i don't know what happened this place is a mess uh but he's already dead, obviously. As that goes, it turns out it's a single gunshot wound to the head with a nine millimeter. Weird. Weird, right?

No signs of a struggle. Two open suitcases on the floor, clothing strewn about, dresser drawers open, all that shit. No signs of forced entry, though. Now, Susan says when she got home that the lights were out,

which is weird. She says, Jim always leaves the lights on for me when I'm out whoring. It's always I'm blowing people. He's like, I'll leave it on for you. Don't worry. You can see if you got any in your hair. Yeah, you know, that goes. She said she always left the lights on for him and then for her.

And this time they were out. She came in, said, Jim, Jim. Oh, my goodness. He's clearly resting. In need of blood and oxygen. Yeah, big time. By the way, we have to say this, because this is not slut shaming at all. This is asshole shaming.

For sure. She's not a nice person. She beat a fucking child into a vegetative state. So you know what our recourse is? Making fun of her for whatever the fuck we can. And what she's doing is detrimental to families and a lot of people. It's kind of shitty. A couple of days after the murder, though, she is already in the process of trying to collect life insurance. Two hundred fifty thousand dollars worth.

Decent chunk. And also have herself declared executor of the estate right now, which is a big deal right this minute. She will also have herself declared executor of the estate. Right now. Which is a big deal. Right this minute. Yeah. Her kids are not so, or his kids, David and Jem, are not so anxious to have her be the executor of shit.

And they file a lawsuit to block her. Yeah. And what would really help is if the police would get their back and say that she might have had something to do with this and maybe help delay this process a little bit. And they find somebody to help out. They found an ally. They find an ally. They find Jimmy's best friend, Sergeant Gary Nichols.

Yes. He's a tough, grizzled bastard. And he says he, quote, made it his mission to see that she would never get a penny of Jimmy's money. And he took his fedora off and lit up a non-filter cigarette. And then just turned black and white ran his hands over that flat top yeah sure it was even yeah yeah see if he needed to put more brill cream in his hair yeah he did that so they do a little investigation here and they find a spent shell

casing on the floor next to jimmy and recover a bullet from the couch behind his head where it went through his fucking head and it both appeared to be from a nine millimeter again there now the detectives here especially gary nichols is aware that i think a similar weapon if i'm not mistaken was stolen from david let's ask david about it so he goes over and this is some smart shit goes over to david's house and he says let me ask you a question david you have this new gun and all that that's been stolen right david says, yes. He goes, before it got stolen, do you have a chance to do any target practice with that gun?

And David said, sure did. As a matter of fact, I was down over here shooting it into a telephone pole. And Gary Nichols says, that sounds fun as shit. But I have some guns and we can do that, too. But I also have cop shit to do. To get to also. That sounds super fun. Don't get me wrong.

Trees, fire, it's crazy. We're going to have a ball. We're going to do that. We're going to go out there. But let's find out who killed your dad first. Let's do that. And then we'll have fun. So he says, do you know where that telephone pole is? Could you maybe direct me to it?

And David says, sure fucking can. So Gary Nichols goes down there pulls slugs out of the telephone pole to compare for ballistics brilliant against this gun brilliant it's super brilliant it's fucking incredible it's kind of like on the wire it's true they pulled snoop and herk herk pulled snoop and chris over and they shot her his nail gun into the ground. They shot their nail gun in the ground out of pure anger and frustration. They couldn't get shit out of them. And then later on, Freeman and McNulty are looking for nail guns and nails to match newly put in nails over that are on and boards that cover vacant building doors where they're finding a bunch of dead bodies because Marlo's fucking killing people and put them in there

because it's a piece of shit. And I want Omar to kill him really bad. And he never does. So it's kind of like that. All right. Just like that. It's a good reference. But he's lost on you.

Totally lost. I'm sorry. I'm out of breath now. So now they find that it matches the gun. So now they go to Susan and they go, we have a new development in the case. This is super weird. The gun that David had stolen from from him these bullets match that gun and she says you know what that makes sense that makes sense she says because their relationship has been falling apart

jim and david ever since he was 15 ever since yeah ever since she said first i would go as i would be like the go-between between them but the last couple years i haven't been doing that and it's been getting worse and worse between them. It's hard for me to be the go between because I was also fucking David. So it's harder. What the fuck? So the cops are like, back that up a step. You're fucking David.

And she's like, oh, yeah, yeah. We've been a couple of years. She goes, I wouldn't really call it an affair. Unquote. That's what she said. That's fucking fair. But, you know, we were banging around. It went a while. Several times. A couple of years. Yeah. While you're married. Yeah. it an affair, unquote. That's what she said. That's fucking fair. But, you know, we were banging around. It went a while.

Several times. A couple years, as a matter of fact. While you're married? Yeah, yeah. Definitely an affair. I would call that an affair, as a matter of fact. She claims also that Jim knew about this and just said, well, don't do it again and didn't care.

Which, generally not. This guy is really forgiving and calm. So you can beat kids into vegetative states. Fuck his kid as friends. Everybody doesn't care. Good as her blowjob. Amazing. Apparently now they need evidence against her is the only thing here. More than just that, because they haven't found this murder weapon.

And she has the same problem. Her problem is the murder weapon also, because she can't get rid of the murder weapon because she has the murder weapon. Sure. She has taken it and sewn it up the ass of a giant christmas teddy bear that is where she's good hiding that's a good hiding spot it's not bad they don't find it there so it's not a bad hiding spot yeah and a couple weeks after the murder they move out of town susan takes the two kids and moves out of town uh takes off for a while here

it's not suspicious at all right no no oh the memories in that house it's terrible so september after that couple weeks in september a neighbor calls her up out of town and says hey uh the cops are poking around about you they're asking me questions or over at your old house and all that shit just letting you know yeah so susan says fuck okay i need to do something here and she calls up her sister and her mother and meets them. She meets them at a McDonald's near Indianapolis, which is a crazy place to meet anyway, especially when they get there. Susan turns to them in the car and says, OK, I tell you guys something. I killed Jimmy just to let you know. The mother's like, oh, Jesus Christ.

Are you kidding me? Like, this is crazy. We liked you better when you're telling us blowjob stories. Yeah, this is, can you go back to that jesus now according to susan she said it was supposed to be a double suicide that was the point of this and but she said that she couldn't do it she couldn't kill herself so jim said all right you can't kill me you can't kill yourself shoot me and that way my will and my life insurance will still be in place because i was murdered it wasn't a suicide so you shoot me and then you got you know you it's all you know what you live a good happy luxurious life i need to die because this is terrible i'm done with this being successful

i'm done with all this success and all this type of thing and all this love in my family and shit you know it's terrible uh so uh that's that's her story said, then I took the gun and I hit it up the teddy bear's ass. And it's sitting there. She said, it's still there. We have to get rid of it. So, okay. First of all, by the way, her excuse for doing this, which is amazing later on, when she tells the cops why this happened. It's fucking awesome.

Anyway, so they take the gun. They take it to her sister Darlene's house. They get a big pot, like a big concrete, not a, not a concrete, but like one of those big plaster pots to pot things. Darlene's husband gets them a bunch of concrete and they put the gun at the bottom of the pot, fill it with concrete, done, done, put, and they leave it at their nephew's house. There you go. Nice fucking aunt.

Thanks auntie for the murder weapon pot. Appreciate that. Oh, I can't even use it as a planter because it's full of concrete appreciate it supposed to just keep this now thanks that's beautiful i appreciate it yeah uh so uh at this point um um jesus christ she had to figure out how to get the how to the way they got the gun out is amazing too the whole the whole reason why the gun stayed in the house for so long was because she thought it would be suspicious to carry out a big teddy bear yeah a big christmas teddy bear so what they did was they went to the store and bought another giant teddy bear and carried two out because

they thought that would be less suspicious it's a decoy teddy bear like you like what's in those teddy bears you hand them the one with nothing in it? Okay, never mind. This is August. This is August, yeah. The more Christmas teddy bears. Yeah. The more suspicious. That's what it is. I would say so.

As many as you have, that's as suspicious as I am. Wow. So this is fucking, this is obviously crazy. Everybody sticks to their stories. Everything's fine for two months. And then Darlene runs into the lead investigator. Her sister, Susan's darlene runs into the lead investigator uh her sister susan's sister runs into the lead investigator and the guy starts asking her a few questions and she says oh shit i know the answers to all these questions not to mention so does my mom

we could get in trouble for this a lot uh this is probably yeah this probably isn't good uh tell you what she killed fucking jimmy uh he she told me all about it she spills the beans on her sister uh yeah spills the beans she says the gun is at my nephew's house it's in a pot yep uh we i helped her do it you know the whole deal so they arrest susan on november 4th 1992 uh with this uh after this uh they said the motive is insurance money obviously police go looking for that pot because that murder weapon is the final yeah that's the final nail in the car it's gone pot's not there anymore they can't find it they go to darlene they go where the fuck's the pot

she goes it's over at the there they go no it's not uh problem was nelly the mother had some sort of weird edgar allen poe fucking telltale heart thing going on and she every time she saw that pot she was like they're gonna find it they're gonna find it so an elderly woman hauled a 75 pound uh concrete pot up three flights of stairs and hid it in her attic underneath a bunch of shit so it looked like everything's just been there for years that is how much regret she has that's how much yeah that's so yeah that is crazy shit. So they can't find it. So they're going forward anyway.

They're like, we have enough evidence without the murder weapon. That's great. Until 10 weeks before trial when Nellie goes, OK, fine. It's in the fucking attic. I did it. I did it. I got fuck. It's fine.

We helped her hide it. It's up there. They would have never found it. She just gives it up. She's like, I got to do it, which is goddamn crazy. Now, obviously, now it's the there they would have never found it yeah she just gives it up she's like i gotta do it which is goddamn crazy uh now obviously now it's the same gun now she has to have an explanation for why why do you have the gun why do you have the gun and she said and this is amazing if she says two different explanations okay first of all she says that she saw the gun recognized it as david's and uh didn't want didn didn't want David didn't want like David

to get in trouble and didn't know what to do. So she was going to hide the gun and figure it out. Yeah. Then her second excuse. And this is what she says in court. This is fucking amazing. She says that they said, well, you know, why did you hide the murder weapon? And she said, well, I saw it lying on the ground there.

And, you know, I thought maybe uh you know might have something to do with the death because it's a gun and it's next to a dead man right she said and i knew that there was going to be a bunch of police and paramedics and she said quote i didn't want it to be a distraction to whatever was going on here because the one thing homicide detectives hate is when there's evidence everywhere they hate that they walk They walk in, they're like, oh, Jesus Christ, what a fucking murder weapon now? Come on, man. Jesus Christ. I don't even I got a bag this shit now. You got a fucking

bag. I don't have one. I need a pencil to put it in the bag. I don't fucking have any of this shit. What a pain in my ass. I hate when this is easy. I hate when it's an open and shut. Fuck. God damn it. Now I got to do work. I got to fucking write on the thing where it came from and the date. And I'm going to put that tape on it.

This is horseshit. Where's the photographer? Somebody take a picture of this. Just take a picture. I'm done with this shit. Wow. And she also in court said that she thought it was David who did it because, quote, in tears, she said, because we'd had an affair. And so the whole court gasped.

She said, quote, he said he was going to get rid of his dad that's what she says in court they get david on the stand who is a undergraduate student in indiana university and uh they ask him about it and he says quote i never had an affair with that woman and pre bill clinton that held a lot of weight it really did like after bill clinton if you said those words in that order every you could have never been on the same continent with a woman and you'd be like oh he fucked her definitely but back then if you said i never had an affair with that woman that shit sounded oh wow he never had that's convincing uh he said absolutely not uh then her sister and

her mother testify against her which is ugly yeah and they testify about everything that happened and then they add a little little uh something to it too they put a little stank on it uh she says her sister is quoted on the stand as saying quote she's a liar she's always been a liar and then at the end of her testimony darlene was crying the sister yeah as she was breaking down crying getting off the stand she stopped dramatically turned to susan and said why'd you do it which is the worst fucking thing the jury could see and susan said get off the stand judas fucking idiot god damn it jesus christ your time's done they said your excuse get down you're done now uh so it goes to the jury uh 15 hours of deliberation which seems like a lot for this seems pretty open and shut and the jury after 15 hours

declares itself deadlocked and they have a mistrial she is not guilty we're not found guilty uh she they said at least two jurors said they could never vote for her to be guilty you betcha wink wink at least two jurors uh both of them probably dudes i'm gonna say a couple of dudes that found themselves on a on a lunch break with a dick in someone's mouth i'm saying a mistrial she gets a mistrial on this they do have a retrial because they're not going to let this go no uh this time they introduce some new evidence too yeah number one they have to introduce evidence of her being a liar because she's she's getting on the stand saying she has good character so they have to impeach her character uh and it's just like her and david their words against each other so they find a detective she filed a burglary

report in 1990 and reported a bunch of items missing now this same detective was one of the investigating detectives of j Grun's murder, came over to the house to interview him or interview her about the murder. Lo and behold, while he's there, he sees a shitload of items that she listed as missing in that burglary. So right away, that's a thing that's like a legal lie that she lied in a police report. That makes her a liar. Not only that, they find a bunch of their friends and relatives who will testify to the fact that Susan was physically abusive to Jimmy, that they that

he would come around with black eyes and scratches and probably knife wounds under his clothes for all we know. And she would have no marks on her and they would ask him about it. And he would say, oh, she got upset or whatever and blow it off sort of thing. So they introduced that and that's a big deal because now you're talking about a growing domestic violence and a murder. It works, but it doesn't matter the gender. You know, physical abuse and a murder is physical abuse and a murder. It all accelerates and graduates to something bigger. Yeah, gender aside, it doesn't really matter.

So also the sister obviously, again again testifies against her. There's some hearsay stuff where the sister testifies about something the sister's daughter told her. That's just kind of complicated. And that testimony gets corroborated by outside people outside of hearsay also. But it'll come up later. So that's why I'm telling you this. This time, though, it goes to the jury and the verdict is guilty. All right. They've decided that she's guilty here

they also find some aggravating circumstances uh they find her her prior prior criminal history you beat a boy into a vegetative state that's going to look bad if once you after you kill somebody certainly her need for correction since she didn't get any time for the last one and look what happened and that a lesser sentence would depreciate the seriousness of the offense because this was a premeditated murder they're saying which is way worse than they got in a fight and something happened uh they find no mitigating circumstances not a single one not one not not a goddamn thing and they're ready to sentence her and the judge tells her you ma'am may fuck off uh 60 That's steep. That's the maximum for the charge. So 60 years she gets after that.

She got it all. She lost her fucking mind. She took it all, James. She took every last inch of it. Afterwards, they basically have to carry her out of court, sobbing and fucking, you know, losing her mind. So this, you'd think it would be over, but it's not. And not just the appeals process. There's some interesting things here that have to do with, uh, we'll talk about it.

1995. There's a court battle over her estate, over the estate, the Grund estate. Now they're trying to take it all away from her and she, and rightfully legally. So argues, Oh no, no. Uh, I could have killed him on fucking Main Street in front of the whole town during a fireworks parade during the amateur circus. And I still own half of his estate because half of that estate belonged to me before I killed him.

So killing him doesn't mean that I don't own that anymore. And they go, she's fucking right. Yeah. And she gets to keep half the estate. So they didn't sue for like wrongful death and take it all. Then you have to do that. Then she gets to keep half the estate. They didn't sue for wrongful death and take it all from her? Then you have to do that. Then you have to go through that process. But they were just trying to take the whole estate right away.

And they said, nope, can't do that. I'm buying all the ramen I can before they sue me. Fuck yeah. In prison, she's going to need it. Ask Chad Curtis, a crime and sports alumnus. She will be rich. Yeah. She appeals the first time.

A lot of it's hearsay, testimony, shit from the the sister's kids statements through the sister. They do that. Also, they said that her daughter's statements amounted to some hearsay. Then her other part of it is ineffective assistance of counsel for not objecting more vigorously to the hearsay. Okay. So it's all based around this one little kind of hearsay thing here. And also she said that she should have gotten the shit from the 1990 burglary not allowed into court. The cop calling her a liar, basically. That's another thing there. Yeah, it's a bunch of failing to object. Also sentencing. She argues that a maximum sentence of 60 years is manifestly unreasonable in this case. She argues that a maximum sentence of 60 years is manifestly unreasonable in this case. And the defendant requests the court revise the sentence here based on all of her shit.

She says she doesn't she doesn't challenge the aggravators. But she says that her need for correction is just she calls it a recitation of the language of an aggravating circumstance. She says that shouldn't that shouldn't be that bad. They disagree. They disagree. They also said that her mitigating, she should have a mitigating circumstance, and that should be that she's a mother,

and imprisonment of her would have a substantial hardship on her children. Oh, sure. And also, they also say she's been good. She's done charity work recently, and a number of people in the community found her to be of good character, So they also say she's been good. She's done charity work recently. And a number of people in the community found her to be of good character. And people requested mercy on her behalf because they knew her in town. And the judge said, this is, by the way, an exact statement.

This is a you man may fuck off. Quote, first, incarceration is not the cause of the hardship on your children. You murdered the children's father, thus removing him from their lives. That's the hardship on the children. And he says we cannot find error in the trial court's failure to find a hardship to be a mitigating factor because you're causing the hardship. So fuck you. You can't cause a hardship and call it on. Call it my fucking problem.

Basically. Also, this the conclusion here is conviction and sentence are affirmed yeah and they send her on back to the clink okay uh 2010 she's on tv yeah she has a tv interview this is her 15 minutes here to get her story out yeah she's been in jail for 17 years 18 years and she finally gets to get it out uh she uh does a tv interview with uh investigation discovery yeah and uh with fbi former fbi agent candace delong who's her career was what jody foster's character in silence of the lambs was based on got it she's a fucking badass really this candace delong is she could make you admit to killing to the kennedy assassination and you were born 15 years later like that's how she's a badass like uh she she asks a question and then puts her eyes in a way that somehow scan the back of your skull yeah it's fucking amazing

and susan hangs in there and gives all gives her all the shit she can about she's just so innocent and David did it. And it's just terrible being wrongly imprisoned. Oh, boy. And all that horse shit. Finally, Candace DeLong's thing about her is not recommendation. Her summary of Susan is that Susan needs to be worshipped and idealized by men. And that's the problem, her main problem there. She asked Susan, and this was a big factor because she said she would talk about how tough she is, Susan, over the course of this, and then would go to how weak she is.

Yeah. Back and forth. Depending on the situation. Depending on when it's convenient for her. So this Candace DeLong said, let me ask you a question. You think David killed your husband, right? And she said, no question. Candace DeLong said, let me ask you a question. You think David killed your husband, right? And she said, no question. Candace DeLong said, OK, you saw him after that.

Did you ever say, you know, hey, why did you kill my husband? Yeah. You know, anything to that nature. And this is Susan's response. Quote, I'm just a little woman. Oh, boy. So now she's just a little woman that can't do anything. So she's just a full of shit.

I'm just a liar. That's what it should have been. I'm just a little liar. Fucking gender is not a factor here. You're an asshole. If you were a dude right now, I'd be blowing you. Yeah. So let me tell you, maybe you get me out of this.

So Christ almighty, June 2012, she has another appeal. She argues now that Miami County prosecutor Wilbur Siders had improper contact with jury members from Grun's first trial, which ended in a mistrial, which wouldn't fucking matter because they convicted her on the second time. This Siders, the prosecutor, acknowledged meeting with jury members from the first trial before the second trial. But the first court trial and then the appeals process court found nothing improper because you're allowed to talk to the jurors after the trial's over they're not held over for the next trial it's not like they're going to keep that jury and we have to keep them pristine right once the trial's over it's a mistrial that's what they do prosecutors they if you win a case prosecutors take jurors out for drinks and shit do they really fuck yeah that

homicide book they're talking about really they convicted this cop yeah homicide that jimmy put in there or the lesser less offensive version homicide that was that was a great typo unbelievable that's what happens when you drive home after recording and uh yeah someone asked you to handle shit so that james doesn't have to stop yeah stop doing that jesus christ oh my god somebody asked what's the david simon book or no what's the book about the book about homicide they even spelled homicide right there for you and i wrote it's called homicide it's called homocide yeah that's awesome fuck you qwerty keyboard for putting those two letters so close and why wouldn't that why wouldn't it get fixed

why would it allow me to write homicide you put a capital letter yeah that's why you made it a proper yeah that could be the the name of something you made it a proper i don't know that or you've either that or you type it often in your phone jimmy what are you up to i've never known you to dislike gay people what's going on jimmy this Jimmy? I dislike them so much, James, that I encourage... You've coined a term and used it so much your phone has recognized it now.

Jesus, Jimmy. We've got to re-figure out our working relationship here. I can't be associated with homophobia of this nature. So in that book, though, in the homicide book, they talk about how this cop killer,

a guy who was convicted of shooting and blinding a cop afterwards they took a few of the jurors out uh because they they convicted this person so the cops took them out for beers afterwards no idea to talk about them and they just just a probe to think to say what were you thinking with this how close were you to not vote in this way what was the what was the feeling in the room and i think it helps lawyers figure out a little more into the juror's psyches here and their strategy yeah yeah and there's nothing improper about this because those jurors are done they're not going to be back that that would the fact that you were a juror on the first trial would disqualify you from being on the

second trial so it doesn't matter mistrial anyway you wouldn't want those guys no no they can't do shit so uh september 2012 she takes it all the way to the supreme court of indiana indiana supreme court and they uh tell her go fuck yourself we don't want to hear your bullshit they declined to hear her case and end her hopes of a shorter sentence and uh she is stuck uh there's several women channel shows on this lady and a couple of books i read one was super cheesy and another one i didn't read because it was 438 dollars and 99 cents for the paperback oh the fucking balls i guarantee you they have no other information that i didn't get out of court documents newspaper clippings other books and everything else god i guarantee you well it's more arrogant charging that or naming this place Peru. Yeah. One of the two.

Fuck. In Miami County. Throw that in the mat, too. Now, 2016, there's another lawsuit involving Susan. This has nothing to do with her conviction, though. This has to do with her tits. Okay. This is a boob lawsuit.

She apparently had breast implants in the early 1990s. Yes. And while she's in prison prison one of them broke and deflated now she's in prison for murder so you would think they just go guess one of your tits is deflated now and shrug and be like oh fuck yourself they gave her a new tit they installed a new boob wow which is great you would think they'd be like well i guess we'll take the other one out or fuck you like instead yeah they Yeah. They gave her another boob. So I was like, OK.

Earn a new nickname in prison. They're going to call you Cyclops forever. Fuck yeah. At least the next 40 years. So yeah, instead she she did it and she they gave it to her and then she sued them over. Asshole. She sues the prison. She sues the Corizon Medical, which is a company that provides the care in the prison.

Dr. Hinchman, a nurse Murphy, a bunch of guards, all sorts of people who who failed to to take her complaint seriously because they made the skin too tight on the new one. Fuck you. And literally when she sleeps on one side, she has pain associated. I'm hearing none of it. The judge said, go fuck yourself. You're in prison and you got a free tit. Shut up. What are you talking about, you idiot?

At least you have one tight titty. Yeah, have that. Enjoy life. Plenty of people in this town that would kill for that. And then, here's my gavel. And that was the end of it. Fuck out of here with that shit. Jesus Christ.

The judge probably said it. Yeah. You should see my wife's tits. Fuck out of here with that shit. Jesus Christ. The judge probably said it. Yeah. You should see my wife's tits. At least you got one good one. You got one. Clack, clack. Get out of my courtroom.

Her son, James's son, David, who was accused of this and everything else, he went on to be an attorney for many years in Peru and is currently a judge in Peru, Indiana. I love it. And people who have been in his court, the general consensus about him is that he is, quote, a really nice judge. So good for him. Yeah. Didn't even get bitter. He figured it out. He did.

Susan, on the other hand, is rotting away in prison. She has a Twitter where she says that she's wrongfully convicted and to 60 years in prison. And this is her life. This is going to be her story of that. And she's tweeted twice. Once was hello Twitter, and the other one was going into her private dorm has really lowered her stress level, and then never tweeted again. You know what?

That dorm room has really alleviated her problems, and she doesn't even need a Twitter now. She's fine. Now she doesn't. Yeah, that's true. She's all relaxed. She doesn't need to vent. I hope she checks it soon because she's about to get a tweet probably show me that

tight yeah that's i would say so let me see it come on now now people who've been in prison with her all the not only the inmates the guards say that she still acts like a beauty queen and that she can't be housed with the general population because everyone can't wait to kick the shit out of her because she's an asshole uh she's in the Rockville Correctional Facility in Indiana, and that is Peru, Indiana. And that is the story of two unlikely people, I would say, hooking up and bad things happening from it. What a ride.

What a fucking ride. That was crazy. Yes, if you like that show, I have an idea of how you can tell us about it. You can tell the world about it by going to iTunes, Apple Podcasts, that purple icon. Or as a matter of fact, wherever you listen to podcasts, they all have a rating system, and it all counts in their ranking. So if you could give us five stars, tell us you're following, whatever. Just tell us we like this show.

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We've been offered a couple different Florida things. We're kind of using this as a litmus test to see how we sell there so man you guys pack that up we'll be back to florida you betcha quicker than you know it in a couple different places so uh do all of that check that out get the merchandise get your t-shirts get everything uh also if you want to be a hero to the show well first let's do social media then we'll talk about the heroes uh if you want to follow the show very easy to do and you can find these links over at our website shut up and give me murder.com uh you can find us at murder small on twitter at small town murder on instagram and at small town pod on facebook and if you want to be our superstar hero goddamn people that we

worship one of our producers who we're going to talk about in a second here, you can do that very, very easily by following the link in our website or just going over to patreon.com slash crime and sports or going over to PayPal and using our email address crime and sports at gmail.com to make a one time donation. And Jimmy, I know you have a list here of these wonderful fine people that we could not live without. Please, Jimmy, hit me with it like a here of these wonderful, fine people that we could not live without. Please, Jimmy, hit me with it like a 9mm to the forehead. I need it now.

Throw down. Our executive producers this week are Emmy Dumont, Susan Olgis, Shanna Ho, or Huff, or Hug. Go with Huff on that one. Corey Romph, the color chick. We met her this weekend. Yeah, we did. We met a lot of people. Thank you, guys.

I forget where she was at. Was it Detroit? It may have been. It's all blended together. I can remember candace kennedy she's terrific thank you bridget lawless donated twice thank you so much both ways possible wow carrie clark that sounded dirty jimmy carrie clark sent us a very sizable donation saying merry christmas thank you so much so much we appreciate you lonnie hall Hall, Jordan Barrett. No, Bennett. I called her Barrett last time.

Yeah, you fucked that off. I'm sorry. And she did it twice this week. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jordan. Appreciate it. Jessica Valorant. Valorant.

Yes. Or Valorini. Valorini? It could be Italian. Hey, Jesse Valorini. How you doing? Yeah. How you doing, sweetheart?

Carol Braun, Chrissy Ann Costaldi, E-Bitch from P-Town. That's... Cool. I don't know. Thank you. I wouldn't call her that. Keep bitching. We love it.

Lisa Jensen donated twice. Thank you. Christian Collins, Eric Marburger, Mike Coziella, Eric Hayadashi. No, Erica Hayashidi. Got it. You messed that all up. You're wrong. I really fucked it.

Sorry. Tom Carlin, Tom Carol I really fucked it. Sorry. Tom Carlin. Tom Carolan Brooks. Yes. Yes. Charlene Ramier. Ramier. You guys are fantastic.

Thank you so much for what you've done for us this week. Thank you. The other producers are James Stokely, Darren Mehal, Steve Chanel and PA. Thank you, Steve. Oh, thank you, man. Good to see you again. Jazine Gotting. Or Gotten. Gotting. It's two Ts, though Chanel and PA. Thank you, Steve. Oh, thank you, man. Good to see you again. Jazine Goating or Gotten. Gotting. It's two Ts, though.

Two Ts. Is it Goating? It's a fucking, it's a different language, too. Thank you. It has umlauts. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, it has some dots and shit. Thank you, umlaut, man.

Some dots and shit. Josh Wilson. I got some dots. Josh Wilson, sorry. Bill Sosinski, Under the Sea Fabrics. Carla Broman, Stacy Langtoe, Justin Miller, Allison Barron, or Baran, Lorenda Lieber, Tyler Williford, Janice Hill, David Steele, David Estelle, Estelle.

Jesus. Megan McKinney. Oh. Rachel Misenheimer, Andrea, or Andrea Samples, and she sent it for uh for amy henderson thank you very much thank you uh malt dietrich matt i called him before yeah and i wrote malt because he because it's a joke because i know who he is now you know him and we brought it up i remember so i read matt and wrote malt unreal what the fuck is going on with my life we haven't slept gary howard meg smith cat uh taylor cadwalder cadwalader uh the gen the genetic the genetic genealogist oh my uh justin

lafazia uh callie johnson uh brett kolb lauren demirath susan platt paul rouest uh sarah carter gary morgan james fraker down there in la right hey., right? Hey, I think so. It was in San Diego. I think it was L.A. Oh, no. Amy Davis, or Days. Daves. Shit, did I write that wrong? Davies? Douse. It's D-A-U-S.

That's what I do. Good save, Jimmy. Yeah, that's Jimmy Davis. Cool. Brendan Ables. Hey, yeah, man. Nice to meet you, Brendan. Thank you for everything you do, buddy.

What a good kid. It was definitely Detroit. Thank you, brother. It's a good kid. We appreciate you, man. Michelle Terry, photography? Topography? I almost said topography. She you, brother. We appreciate you, man. Michelle Terry Photography. Topography. I almost said topography.

She does topography. Martina Liwulanga. Hey, Martina. We love you up in San Francisco. And Jason Fuller, of course. Jay Full. Nice seeing you again. Pleasure, my friend.

Pleasure seeing you and your family there in Detroit. We had a great time hanging out with you. Thanks for being there. Jesse Hartman. Again, he donated. Thank you, Jesse. Beth Charlton. Rachel Stora. Patricia Wasston. Rachel Stora.

Patricia Wassel. Ashley Veo. Amanda Berrigan. Berrigan. Mark Lanus. That's tempting. That's a brutal one. Sorry, brother.

Meredith Rogers. Sydney Oaks. Cody Leversey. That's the guy that brought us those cups. Oh, thank you. That was Detroit also. Yes, it was. Yes. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. That was Detroit also. Yes, it was. Yes.

Thank you so much. Misty Keene, Savannah Reinhardt, Heather with no last name, April Rush, John Rogers, Heather Newton, Trey Volkanar. Volkanar. One Credit Classics, that's a podcast or no, it's a YouTube channel. Oh, cool, cool. He beats video games with one credit. Oh, that's awesome.

That's pretty impressive. My son would love that. Yeah, yeah. And that's basically what it's for impressive. My son would love that. Yeah, and that's basically what it's for, is for people to watch him how to fucking do it. My son watches video games. That's ridiculous. Pierce to Corey, Owlette, Katie White, Liz

Vasquez, Caitlin Allnut, Daniel McDonald, Jessica Nottingham, Dave Harper, no, Dove Harper. God, this one too. Madalena Maria Neva Benevento, Night. Nice. Yeah. That's a good one. That's a lot of Spanish. Sounds like opera. I love that

shit. Maura Corbett, Susie Platt, Jonas Astrum, Bill McClellan, Lindsay Carmoni, Alexandra Reed, Matt Sledge, Sharon Carter, Jennifer Mitz, Jane with no last name, Amy Conley, Alexis DeVries, Michelle Terry. She's a photography girl.

She donated twice. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much. Michael Stoll, Jasmine Nicole, Tamsin Hunter, Jordan S., Renee McCully-Kelly, Bryn Fields, Brian Embry, Carissa Wilson, and Christopher Dobronski. You guys fucking come through all the time for us. And we can't do this without you. So thank you so much.

We really appreciate it. And everybody kind of say Merry Christmas. That's amazing, guys. Thank you so much. We just appreciate that so much. And I don't know. We feel like we're part of your family. And we feel like you're part of our family.

When we get to meet you at these shows and put faces to names and everything, it's amazing. It really is. It's the best part of the whole thing. We have a ball with that stuff. So thank you guys so much for doing that. I wonder if you wanted to tell Jimmy what you have a ball with him about. How could you do that? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks,

on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Thank you guys so much. And send your stories to CrimeAndSports at gmail.com. I like hearing from you guys, and I like hearing about the stories. But there's only so many I can relay to James before I forget them. We find some treasures out of that,

though. We really do. So send those to us at the email. We've done a couple. We did one a couple weeks ago based on a listener request. That's a great case.

I'm doing it. So thank you so much for that. What about you? Yeah, if you want to send anything to me, you can do that. I'm at Jimmy P is funny or copy and paste my last name from the first and last name from the show description. And don't try to spell it, because you'll fuck it up.

I fuck it up sometimes. I've had it for a long time. So you'll mess it all up. Do that. Come see us each and every week. And by the way, show note, we will have a show next week. There will be a Small Town Murder. Fuck yeah.

No crime and sports on Christmas Day. But Small Town Murder comes out two days after that. You guys are going to need something for that holiday. Come down, and we got a story for you. Let me tell you something. Fantastic. It's a wild one, so enjoy. Just put it this way.

We're going to Florida, guys. You betcha. It's a Christmas present for the small town murder listeners to go to Florida. Thank you so much, and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.