Small Town Murder - Family Murder Tree - Post Falls, Idaho

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

This week, in Post Falls, Idaho, the seemingly random murder of a family man, while out on the job, seems much less random, when his wife is also killed, just a couple short years later. This leads to a variety of suspects, including the murdered man's brother, and even the couple's own son. But when a man is caught for a completely unrelated murder, he has a story to tell, that clears up all questions. This story also proves that the real killers were right under everyone's noses, and well trusted by the victims, leading to a wild surprise ending. Also, will a missing boy ever turn up?? A wild tale, from start to finish!!   Along the way, we find out that in Idaho, you may have to wait in line for your tattoo behind a rabbit, that killers usually dont murder for NO reason, so sometimes, you have to look a little deeper, and that some people will do absolutely anything to avoid going back to prison!!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!! Check us out on VIDEO Wednesday and Friday evenings on Netflix! www.netflix.com/smalltownmurder Donate at patreon.com/crimeinsports or at paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

Murder in the Heartland, a podcast from ID, explores real crimes across small town America, towns that may look a lot like your own. Each week uncover shocking stories of murder and betrayal from a suspicious hunting accident to a college student who disappears after her shift to the local bar. Hear from investigators, witnesses, and family members as they share the chilling details behind each case. If you're interested in true crime with a small town twist, I think you'll enjoy this podcast. Listen to Murder in the Heartland wherever you get your podcasts. Your sales order says one thing. Your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says good luck.

O-Doo brings your business together on a single platform. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's O-D-O-O-O-O-com. Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and cho choo. Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogalo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Whistman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another crazy story. This is a wild story. It looks like a little thread sticking out.

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Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's do it. We're going to Idaho this week. Fucking, it hasn't been too, too long since we were in Idaho. But like I said, the way it worked out, who, boy, is this a wild kid? This is post falls, Idaho. Two words.

Post Falls. Northwestern Idaho Panhandle action. This is Idaho Panhandle up there. It is up there. Is there falls? I have no idea. It's post falls. They call it that.

Maybe it's because there's no more falls. It's post falls. It's after the falls. Years and years ago. It's gone now. Northwestern, like we said, 15 minutes to Cordillane. About eight and a half hours to Jerome, Idaho. our last Idaho episode, episode 679, Murder Colors Don't Run.

That was funny. That was a wild episode. This is in, and I don't think I've ever said this county name, right? Kutani County. It's going to be native. Something like that, yeah, K-O-O-T-E-N-I-I. Area Code 208 and 986. Population of this town, about 44,000.

Yeah. So it's grown a lot recently, too, in the last 10 years. Median household income here, pretty low for median household income. $38,162 a year. That's about 30 grand less than the national average. Almost half. That's not good. And that doesn't help that the median home cost here is $457,200.

So it is expensive. How dare you? Apparently not easy to make money here. So that's tough. A little bit of history real quick, just mainly the name, Post Falls, is named after Frederick Post. I figured it was because there was like a postal. outlet there or something. It's in the middle of nowhere. No, no, no. It's a

German guy, an immigrant who constructed a lumber mill along the Spokane River in 1871 on land that he purchased from the chief of the Cordillane tribe. What a guy. Did it the right way anyway. The purchase of the land

is preserved in a pictograph on a granite cliff in Treaty Rock Park. There's this whole like display of like him like handing over the deed. It's crazy. Somebody drew it. Somebody made it. Yeah, it's interesting. Reviews of this town, they should have made a little diorama. That would have

been nice, like a shoebox diorama. Yeah. A little guy. In an Adidas box. Yeah, it would have been fun. Puma, maybe, whatever. Reviews of this town. Something. Yeah. Here's five stars here. Okay. I love the mountains and the

easy access to the wilderness. There are plenty of restaurants in the area and lots of things to do around town. People are generally nice. Is that right? Wow. I disagree with that last sentiment wholeheartedly. But maybe in this town. In general. In general, no good. Three stars here. Really pretty scenery, but the town doesn't like you unless you're Mormon

or you've grown up your whole life here. That sounds probably correct. The town is, yeah. The town itself will reject you, the land. Also, the place does not know how to forgive anybody. Forget what? Sir, what did you do? What did you move here and then do? That's the thing.

You moved here, fucked up, and now you want everybody's strangers to forgive you for some reason. This place does not know how to forgive anybody and is really stuck up. Terrible place to raise a family. Okay. Well, if that's true,

how dare you be stuck up, you broke fox? You got no money. What are you talking about? Two stars, I live where tires have been slashed and vehicles are vandalized, and the police do nothing about it. They can't.

Nothing. Well, don't worry. They don't do much about murder, too, as we'll find out. That's all right. That's the least of your concerns. Here's one star finally here, and this is extremely specific, I think, to this person's experience, I would say. Quote, there are always loud neighbors that like to scream and yell at other neighbors. Always the whole town or your neighbors suck, which ones?

Yeah. It has gotten to the point where I. want to move. Oh, my neighbors have driven you out. Here's the good news. You're allowed. There it is. I'm sure plenty of people run screaming from here.

So I'm sure there's just as good a beaten path out of this place as there is into it. Next up, things to do, the North Idaho State Fair. Yeah. Oh, baby. Here we go. Idaho does a fair like nobody, though. They do a lot. I found some interesting activities that are going on before we get to the music that

happens, but there's an open horse show. So open for any horses. We open the horse. From the plane. See what's inside makes. See what makes them tick a little bit. You know what I mean? There's also a poultry testing.

And then it says mandatory next to that. Yeah. Livestock and education programs, youth show and stock sale. But there's testing. Then at 4 p.m., you've got to help me with this. Rabbit Tattooing. Oh. Why are we tattooing?

So, well, are they douchebags? Do they want like a, just like a tribal around their legs, like a douchebag for 1990? What are they looking for here, these rabbits? Fine line, are we talking about some traditional? What are we doing? What are we doing? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I want that. Is it like a tribal thing? What are we talking about, you know? I wonder if it's for the, because you have, people tattoo their lives. Like, it's like a branding. Maybe they tattoo the, the, get your rabbit tattoo your rabbits. They're this fucking big. What's the difference? And they reproduce like crazy. Do we need to tattoo them, really? Yeah.

Got some untatted rats. Rabbits all over the place. Well, you brand your livestock so if they get away, people know where they're from. Is someone going to pick up a rabbit and return it to you probably from 10 miles away? I don't see that happening. There's a Circle J tattoo. Oh, man. For music, we got the June Bugs, the second-hand band.

Uh-oh. Okay. It's getting worse. Porter Combs. Wonder what he sings. Yeah. Luke's little brother. Yeah.

The real McCoy. He's the one. He's the real McCoy. Just what? Just him. Music on the mid- Oh, that's June Bugs again. Tanya Lowe,

which sounds like a country act. Anthony Ray, to keep up the tradition of country acts with three-letter last names. Jack Conrad. Okay. Mystic Mountain Music.

Uh-oh. And Lake Town Sound. Oh, also Funshine will be there. Oh, boy. Oh, Funshine's going to be there. Casey and the Fun Shine band. The Fun Shine band. Mel Dalton Band is going to be there.

Valerie Jean, G-E-N-N-N-E. A red-headed country singer is the way I picture that for some ways. I don't like this at all. This is so bad. Midnight Julietts. Riley Anderson. Then the Real McCoy again. AP Collective.

How much country can you fucking listen to? And the hankers. God, Jesus. Not the gangers, not the crankers. The hankers. It's a bunch of William's shit. Yeah. Etherial and E.

Rusty Jackson. Wonder what he sings. Rusty Jackson. That's nothing. Courtney and Company. John DeLong, Catahoula mix. And that's it.

So there you go. Cattahula mix, which is what my brother's dog is, I believe. Yeah. He's a catahula mix. That's exactly what they called him. That said, let's talk about some shitload of murder. That's just...

Great. This is a murder onion, this whole episode. They got as much murder as they got country music at the same. So much. Yeah, they have to equal it. That's the county law. You have to have equal parts murder and country singers at the fair. At the end of that show, you would just throw up.

Absolutely. I would hope so. God, damn it. I wouldn't make it to the end of the show. I'll tell you that much. Take that law. I'd look at it and go, well, that's not good. By the third act, I'd be nauseated.

Totally. Now, this story here started out as one murder that I thought. And then as you go into it, you find out that is not even close to the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more going on here. And even something that we don't even know is cleared up yet. It's the craziest fucking story. So let's get into it. Let's talk about a man first of all.

Gary Charles Losh, L-O-E-S-H, or I'm sorry, L-E-S-H. I'm sorry, L-O-E-S-C-H. Born October 3, 1939. He is from Sacramento. Father Charles, mother Myrtle. He's got brothers named Randy and Wayne. Randy, keep that in mind because we'll talk to Randy quite a bit over the course of this show. Don't know when or I think it was in the mid-60s at some point.

Not sure if he was in Vietnam or what, but he was in the Air Force at some point. Might have been early 60s before Vietnam because he's born in 39. Not sure, but he's in the Air Force. In 1969, he gets married. He gets, so he's 30 at that point, gets married to Barbara Dean Stultz, S-T-U-L-T-Z, Barbara Dean Stultz. Barbara Dean Stultz. And she is born April 7, 1945, so about six years younger. And so she's 24 at the time.

She's also from Sacramento. They live in Sacramento at the time, and that's where they meet and marry and everything like that. They're going to have a couple of kids in 1970. they have a son named Chuck, Charles, everyone calls him Chuck. And then November 6, 1971, they have a daughter named Tina Rose. Okay. Not the roses are middle name. They don't call her.

Tina Rose. They don't call it. It's just Tina. But now, they ended up moving around a little bit. They moved from California to Spokane, Washington in 1979. Not a bad move. Live there for a while where Gary was a member of, in a bunch of clubs. He's a member of the Elk, the Masonic Blue Lodge in Elk Grove, California.

He's a Shriner and a member of the Scottish Rite of Spokane. Oh, boy. So he's in all these clubs and he's got like four silly hats he has to wear to different meetings. That's what it sounds like. So they settle in Post Falls in 1986. So their kids are 15 and 16. And that's how it goes. And their kids are much different.

Chuck is pretty straight arrow kind of a guy. Tina runs with the wrong crowd as kind of a fuck up. It's a little bit of a tear away. Hard to handle, Tina is. Interesting to go from Sacramento and then just keep trying to find smaller places. Yeah, every few years, downsize your town a little bit. In 1991, they have a grandchild. Tina has a son.

Okay. It's like we said. She's not that reliable here and stuff. So she has a son named Korn, huh? A son named Christopher with a K. Remember him because he's, oh boy, he's a big part of the story. Okay. June 1992, Gary and Barbara begin doing a newspaper route.

Apparently, I don't know if she helped sort and he does the delivering or whatever, but they, he and then later on his brother Randy will join him at another route. From their car, they deliver like hundreds and hundreds of newspapers, which back in the day you could actually make decent money in the morning doing that because it would be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. Everybody got the paper. It's volume. Yeah. It's volume.

So you make decent money. They do the same route every day. He goes out and does everything. That's an interesting job because that one didn't have much forethought or forecasting, seeing how fast that was going to go away because it literally hundreds of years. Yeah. Not only that. The printers, the reporters, the fucking editor.

Everybody. Yeah. Everybody went. So now he began, this is June 1992. they distributed about 300 newspapers a day, him and his wife. That's a good amount. He also helped deliver on the weekends, and that's his second job. His main job, he works for Dilly Amusement Company for the last 10 years, so pretty much since they got to town.

Now, Tina, in the early 90s here, their one daughter who has the son, Christopher, she ends up in and out of jail for a bunch of shit. Check frauds and frauds and thefts. In Idaho? In Idaho. Yeah, a bunch of these. kind of petty things that should add up to get you jail time. So parents here, Gary and Barbara, end up taking care of Christopher quite often in the mid-90s and early 90s because Tina's in and out of jail and they have a stable environment. So they're there.

September 1995, Gary helps his brother Randy move to the area and gets him a job delivering papers on the route next to his. It's like the next route over. So, yeah. Yeah. So they hadn't lived near each other for 25 years, the two brothers. And Randy said, we always talked about me coming up here and getting together and building a house together. We were going to try to be a family again. So it seems like they've maybe been estranged a little bit and they're trying to get your shit together. Men some fences. And yeah, I mean, you're 50 years old. Get it together in your 50s. Get along.

Never talk to my sister again. No, I have a brother. I'm not really talking too much. I'm never going to fucking mend that fence. Oh, I understand. We both have fences with wildlife just streaming through them. Just Buffalo. I just wave to them. It's wide open, too.

I'm like, well, you know where it's open if you want to come back. I don't know what to tell you. I'm all out of nails. That's it. I got nothing. I can't fix that fence. I'm out of chain link, babe. I'm done.

So Monday morning, November 13th, 1995. All right. 3308. a. Gary is out delivering his papers, which right away, that is an awful job. Awful.

Just a terrible time to be awake. Fucking awful. Now, at 3.30 a.m., nearby residents on his route think they hear gunfire. A guy named Russ Greenfield said he and his girlfriend were startled awake at about 3.30 a.m. by what they thought was gunshot.

They're big booms. They're loud. And nearby. This part of Idaho can identify gunfire. They know gunfire. And it's common, too. That's the other thing. So they, you know, it's somewhere within like a block, they figure.

It sounded real, real loud. They looked out of their trailer window but didn't see anything. That's the other thing. In a trailer, everything's louder on the outside. It's basically like if you make two tin cans and make a phone out of it, a trailer is one of them. Put an empty can to the world. And flick it. Yeah.

It's a string to the world is what it is. It's it. So now they looked out. They didn't see anything. However, Greenfield said we heard a car leave here at a high rate of speed. We could hear the gravel spinning. So they hear a big boom and then a car tear ass. And they go back to sleep.

They looked out the window and went, I don't know, and then went back to sleep, which, okay, none of my business, I suppose. He's already gone because he was going real fast. Yeah, it must have been, that's it. So then they got up at 5.50 a.m. They woke up. And as they drank their morning coffee, they noticed a car parked in the middle of the road. Oh.

About a block away. Car parked in the middle of the road. And it's Gary's car, the newspaper guy. They know the paper guy's car. The lights are on. The driver's side window is rolled down, but it's raining outside. So who the fuck is sitting in the middle of the road

with their window down in the rain? That's a strange thing. So Greenfield, clearly alarmed as fuck, waits an hour. So 3.30 gunshot car tearing out. Ah, go back to sleep. Yeah. Look out there.

Car sitting in the middle of the road near where I heard that gunshot, window down in the rain. I'll wait. I'll give it an hour. See how it goes. That's indicative of their daily motivation. This is why you make half the national average in salary. No shit. Talk about, I mean, I'm all for being laid back, you know, but I'm a stoner.

but this is crazy. Like this is a work, man. Do something. So then he became more suspicious because the car battery started dying and the light started dimming. Oh, so it's, yeah, the ignition is not running. So he said, quote, this is what he said at 6.50 a.m. This started at 3.30 in the morning. By 650, he said, I thought, this isn't right.

And I called the police. Something's not right. You can't get anything past this guy, boy. He is a fucking, he is smooth. Yeah, get nothing past him. And at the same time, people, the newspaper is getting complaints from like 5 a.m. on that their newspaper didn't come. People didn't get their newspaper. Which, if you have any job where if someone doesn't get what they need, by 510, they're on the phone with you, that's a terrible job.

Awful. Imagine getting complaints at 510 in the morning. You'd be like, dude, fuck you. Are you out of your, I just woke up. Fuck you. You'd be hanging up. Shut up. Fuck off.

You'd be losing your mind. Yeah. Oh, you didn't get your 18 cent paper? What's a fucking paper cost back then? There's a quarter, right? And that's at the newsstand. If you get a subscription, it's cheaper. You're paying like 12 cents of paper.

Shut the fuck up. Be amazed when it arrives at 3.30 in the morning because that's incredible. That a human left their house to deliver something for 11 cents to you in the middle of the night. Do you understand how crazy that is? I mean, they're still delivering mail for 50 cents. You can send a letter from L.A. and New York. We've talked about this. And people complain.

It's like, it cost you 50 cents. It's fucking magic. You know how much it would take you to take that somewhere? Forget about it. It's not happening. Mind blowing. Mind blowing. So the guy, Marshall is the guy who runs the newspaper delivery thing.

And he said, you know, it was crazy that he was getting complaints. He said, Gary's always on time, quote, he's a perfectionist. I don't think he's ever missed anybody. Yeah. So he's the good newspaper. That's right. So he's the perfect representation of that. So the police.

Police arrive and they find Gary dead in his car. Oh, no. Dead in the still park next to the paper boxes about 7 a.m. where he was about to deliver papers to. There are two stacks of newspapers undisturbed in the backseat of his Toyota Camry. And blood is pooled in the front passenger seat where he slumped over. Slumped over. After.

He's been shot in the head. Looks like one gun shot. He just drove, apparently they reconstructed it. He drove down. It's a tree line gravel road. He stopped, rolled his car window down, shoved newspapers into the two boxes right there. And before he got to the third one, apparently, he got killed.

Now, I like how the, you know, people in the houses came out while they were working the crime scene and was like, can I just get my paper? Can I just, can I just, if you just. That's fine. Is it evidence? Probably not, right? Just hand it and pull it out of the box. Is there any blood on it?

Can I have that? I don't know the paper guy. I'm sorry. I mean, it's tragic. I understand, but I don't know him. Horrible. I don't know. Did they already hire a new guy for tomorrow?

I will get it tomorrow, right? Should I call? I'll call them. You got, you know what? You guys do your thing. You guys go back to, go back to what you're doing. I'm sorry. Yeah.

So, you know, so this is, he's been delivering on this same route for three and a half years. The bullet right in the head, it gets him. No weapon is found at the scene. There's no signs of. of a struggle, no indication that he's been robbed either. There's no robbery here. Murder was the reason. It looks like murder.

It's about halfway through his route. It was in a neighborhood just off Ohio Match Road. So while the cops are working the crime scene, about 8 a.m., Randy and Chuck pull up to the scene with the cops processing it. The brother and his son, his brother and his son, Randy and Chuck. So Randy said he was worried. He said, quote, he told me he'd be back by 5.30, and it was 8 a.m. And I got no phone call or nothing. Right.

So they pull up Chuck's 25 at this point. And, you know, they pull up to the crime scene tape. I mean, it's right there. So his brother and another carrier for the spokesman review, that's the newspaper he was working for, said that Gary is carrying no money and has no enemies. It's not like these guys collect the money. Right. They send checks to the newspaper.

You know, so this guy said that the brother said it's senseless. You couldn't ask for a better person. The guy who was the circulation district manager at the paper said he was a good friend. Beside working with him, he said he was just a good person. And Randy said he knew everybody along the way and got along with everybody. So it doesn't make sense. And again, a newspaper like is not a reason to shoot somebody. He's been throwing your paper in the bush instead of on the porch.

so you're going to murder the guy. It's not his fault. The NASDAQ is where it's at. I didn't do it. Because all that information used to be in there, remember? Don't shoot the messenger. Couldn't be more apt to this situation. I didn't write any of this yet.

I didn't even read it. I just handed it to you. So does it happen a lot? They're wondering here. They said, not really because the carriers don't carry any cash. Right. So they don't really, they don't collect anything. So it doesn't make sense.

They said they employ 120. Carriers in the Cordillane San Point area. Almost all of them are adults. And they said, this is the first time that an Idaho carrier has been hurt by anybody. Two Spokane delivery carriers were killed in the past. A 32-year-old was beaten a death in 1987. In 76, a 13-year-old girl was murdered after she disappeared from her paper route. And we know what that's about. It was nothing to do with newspapers. Somebody just knew, somebody just knew where to collect a 13-year-old girl. early in the morning. On her bike.

On her bike. So the circulation guy said, you can't predict a thing like this. I think it was a random act of violence. He must have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a really cool, fun way to find all the stuff that you're looking for with Poshmark. Poshmark.com.

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This is not the murder that we were even talking about today, by the way. This is just a subsequent side murder, okay? That wraps in. Now, the suspects right away are Chuck and Randy. Because they knew where to go. They went right to the spot. Yeah. Now, they said.

But Randy knows his route. So if you drive his route, you're going to find him. He said, I know his route, and I just went on his route. It's what he said. He goes, I just happened to come across where you guys were. If you were, you know, at another neighborhood, I would have found you there. But they said, hmm, it's weird that you, you know, the cops were only there about a half hour and you pull up. It seems like, you know, you knew ahead of time.

And he said no. And Chuck claimed in an interview, there's a show called Accident Suicide or Murder that talked about a couple of these cases we're going to talk about in here. And Chuck did a interview with them. And he said, we knew the route well and we're worried about my dad. So we went looking for him. And so they found discarded cigarette butts at the crime scene. Like someone was smoking waiting for him, like Omar, like fucking Omar from the wire, like staking somebody out. They found a pile of cigarette butts at the crime scene.

And they said, well, that's certainly connected here because they asked the neighbors, does anyone stand here and smoke? And they all said no. So that's a thing. Turns out the DNA on the cigarette butts is from a woman. Oh. So Chuck and Randy immediately ruled out, and the whole thing is thrown into a whole thing. Because they're like, what the fuck woman would stalk a paper guy and shoot him? That's crazy.

This is wild. This is wild already. And the crazy parts haven't even happened yet. Okay. So February 96, Chuck gets married. He was working as an inside salesman at the Cordillane Napa Auto. part store at the time. Good boy.

So good for him. Randy said the last time I talked with the detective, they told me they were grabbing at straws. They had no evidence. Not grasping. Grabbing. He said, yeah. One of the detectives said, we're still investigating. I'd like to be able to tell you we're in the throes of an arrest, but we're not. They said the big part, this is amazing.

The lack of evidence has been the big problem with the investigation. Is that what it is? Really. What the fuck else would hinder it? I mean, if we get overwhelming amounts of evidence and you couldn't solve it, we might have some more questions. But this makes a lot of sense. Sure. You think that's the most obvious thing a human being can say, especially one with a badge.

This guy, the next sentence he said to a newspaper reporter is amazing. Quote, what's really tough is trying to find out who did it. Yeah. Well, it's a good thing you're a cop. It's a good thing they're paying you. fucking 50 grand a year or whatever you're getting paid for this. You know what I mean? It's a good thing you're,

this is a job then. It's not just volunteers from around the neighborhood because it sounds difficult. It feels like he should be the inside salesman at the napoff. Right. That's amazing. And Randy Loche said not knowing why, not knowing who, the basic not knowing is frustrating. And he also said it's always going to be with us.

The not knowing is the irritating thing. There's so little to go on. Now, Randy said the family has come together since the murder. and they stopped delivering newspapers as well. The whole family, we're done. We're done. He said, we're all scared. We're jumping at shadows.

We don't want to go anywhere alone because this is so random. They're scared. He said, it's just so strange. It's beyond belief. It's just a strange situation. So four months later in March, they still don't have any leads. Barbara, Gary's wife and Chuck and Tina's mom, said, we're at our wits end. He said, we just don't know.

She doesn't know what's going on. So Barbara is forced to just go on with her life with no resolution to her husband's murder. She goes on. She was never a suspect, despite the female DNA. She was home and not a suspect. January 11th, 1998, so two and a half years later. Barbara hasn't been heard from in about three days by any. Barb's not around now.

Barb's gone. So Randy and his wife decide to go check on her. After what happened with your brother, I'd be done checking. on anybody, first of all. I'm not checking shit. Not checking anything. Now, they said she has a history of depression, so they wanted to check on her make sure she was okay, especially since her husband's been

murdered and no one's found who did it. Randy noticed that the back door to her house was open while he and his wife Laura stopped by, which set off alarm bells, they backed away and called the police. Yeah, that's good enough. No, this is weird.

I'm done. Caching out. So Randy calls the cops asks for a welfare check. Scott Haig, Hogue, a patrol sergeant said, when someone's asking for a welfare check at that home, the hair on the back of your neck goes up a little bit. Okay.

So they said, a detective arrives and they said, Randy basically did not want to go into the house until I went in with him. There was something that was just not sitting right with me at that point. All right. They canvassed the house. They go inside. They don't really find anything. Then they make their way to the back porch.

And this is what the detective said. Quote, when we look down the steps, you could see Barbara floating in the hot tub down there. Oh. And not like leisurely, like wave and go. Make yourself, grab yourself a margarita from the, not none of that. She's floating face down. Uh-oh. And very much not alive.

Her body is found not only in the hot tub, but there's also a large TV in the hot tub as well. in the hot tub submerged in the water. Okay? So at first they thought it was a electrocution. Maybe she had the TV perched up on the edge. It fell in. Tragic accident. The cop said she looked like she had been in that hot tub for several days.

It was one of the worst death scenes I have ever experienced. It's a Barbara soup. Yeah, in water. Oh, boy. It's going to smell. It's going to be gross. That's bad. They said the TV in the hot tub obviously raised more questions. They said, did she accidentally knock the TV into the water and was electrocuted?

Who knows? Yeah, and that seems like something, but there's things called circuit breakers. And 1996 has those. Oh, we'll get into it. Don't you worry, son. Yeah. It's coming. All right.

So the autopsy, considering her depression, they didn't know if maybe she did it on purpose. Right. So Barbara's body is too decomposed for a toxicology test. and there's no obvious injuries or marks on her at all. She hasn't been beaten or anything like that. Has it been bubbling the whole time too? Oh, it's on. Oh, my God.

That's terrible. 100 degree water, 100, you know, 3 degree water. The medical examiner concluded the cause of death was undetermined and suggested it was a possible accidental drowning. Wow. Okay. Now, when they look around and do a little investigation, they find out the TV was plugged into a 25-foot extension cord that came from the garage.

But they noticed one thing that was strange. The cord wasn't plugged in. The TV's not plugged in. Yeah, that doesn't do anything. No. So Barbara, they said, had other medical issues. Maybe she had a health emergency and died before she could plug the TV in. But then why would she be in the hot tub, sits there, and then gets out and goes and plugs the TV and it doesn't make sense.

Yeah. And then it doesn't, it has no, it's weird. So they said, or maybe someone else was there and unplugged it after. went in the water. Who knows. But again, Randy's suspicious behavior, as the cops put it, puts him in he is their guy to look at.

He's there. And also, they were a little suspicious of him from Gary's death. So now they're like, hmm. This is the second time he's happened upon a body. Exactly. Yeah. Of someone very close to him. Relative. Yeah. Randy adamantly desires

that he has anything to do with this here. Now, one of the detective said after Gary's death, Barbara was the beneficiary of a decent sum of money. What happened to that money? They said they looked into it and found out that Randy had borrowed a pretty significant sum of money from Barbara. And so the detective said his debt would have been wiped clean with Barbara gone. Right.

So they looked at him even more. Now, both Gary and Barbara's detective teams team up because they're like, maybe these are connected. We should probably talk about it. It's rare to have two people murdered, you know, less than three years apart that were married by completely different circumstances. Husband and wife murdered three years apart and not be connected. That's very rare. It's real weird.

So they cast a big net. One person keeps popping up in their radar that they can't really lock down. And that's Tina, the daughter. Oh. Okay. Tina has had a lot of troubles, obviously, at this point. She's been in and out of jail for check fraud and everything like that. Now, she was evading the, like a question, a formal questioning session about Barber's murder.

No, they said she kept rescheduling her interview and eventually just got a lawyer, which someone who's in and out of jail might do. They generally don't like talking to the cops. And they realize they've probably said some shit that's gotten them in trouble before and realize you don't talk to anybody without a fucking lawyer anymore once you're in the criminal justice system for a while. But the cops said, why would she have anything to hide? Which is also a good question. Chuck said, the brother, you know, Barbara and Gary's son, when I found out my sister refused interviews, that threw up big red flags for me that she may have been involved. After my mother passed away, my sister Tina did show up at the house for a brief period of time. From what I remember, she was sad but indifferent.

Okay. Okay. They also find out that Tina's been borrowing a lot of money. Uh-oh. Since Barbara got the insurance settlement from her husband, she's been. been in pretty shitty shape financially. She's described as kind, patient, and generous to a fault with friends and family. Chuck said to the point where she was broke herself, she loaned money to Randy, but not nearly

as much as she has been loaning to Tina. Tina's been the big beneficiary. They said after Gary's death, it appeared Tina was trying to become close to her mother again. It was just purely money from what we found, the cop said. Tina started to get closer to her mother and talked to her about getting this life insurance policy for the benefit of her children or child at the time. Oh, life insurance on mom. On mom. In case you die, then at least we're taking care of.

During that period, Barbara had given Tina well over $100,000 as well. Yeah. To her daughter claiming it was to start this business. So, yeah, that's how it went. Now, Tina has been hanging out with a woman named Sky Hansen. Okay? Her and Sky met at the old Idaho penitentiary in Boise. Yeah.

Skies are dangerous women. Anyone with, especially with an E on the end. Watch out. And she has that. Now, Sky Hansen was in there for manufacturing drugs, so for cooking meth. And Tina was in there for theft, forgery, and car theft. All right. Sounds like a match maiden having these two.

Both are meth behavior, for sure. Absolutely. After they were released, they lived together in Clarkston and Pullman, and Tina's son, Christopher, lived with them for part of the time. Little bit of Sky here. She's about seven years older than Tina. She is, quote, well known to state police for being involved in drug manufacturing and dealing. Everyone says that, and this is from the detectives, Sky Hansen dominated the relationship. She's a real dominant.

Heart, James. No, she's a dominant personality type that makes you do what she wants. Yeah, she cares about you. That's why. They said she liked tropical fish. She owned a 77 firebird and a 95 Corvette. Fucking egg. Yeah.

The chis chicks wild. She also owned five houses in Whitman County. How? Five. She bought fixer uppers and rented them out after she repaired them. Wow. Okay. Now, after Tina and Sky were released from prison, they

started a home renovation business together and asked Barbara for seed money. And that's where the $100,000 came from. Gary hated Sky. Hated her. Yeah. Hated her. Didn't like Tina hanging around with their thought Sky was a bad influence. So there was so much conflict between Gary and Tina that he cut Tina out of the will all

the way down to leaving her $1 in his will. $1. Fuck you is what, dude. That's who you're going to be with. I'm not giving you shit. That will hurt on death day. For sure. Now, Barbara, though, she leaves behind a $500,000 life insurance policy.

To who? $530,000 with Tina as the sole beneficiary. Imagine if you're Chuck. Yeah. What the fuck am I? What is that? Yeah. I don't get a dime.

Right. So, yeah, he got nothing. Now, this was as long, the only way you got the 530 is if the death was either accidental. or natural, one of the two? No murder. No, accidental or natural. Okay. Tina goes for the money.

On the autopsy, there is a quote, undetermined cause of death. And so the death certificate prevented Tina from getting the insurance payout because it has to be classified as an accident or natural. But she and her attorney managed to get the cause changed to accidental drowning, which gets her the win.

of $530,000. Okay. Okay. She immediately signs it over to Sky Hansen. Okay? And they disappear. Gone. Like Kaiser Sosei.

Gone. Rumors are they left the country. There's a reason why they think they left. And that is a woman named Anita Steckman comes forward. You've never heard of this woman so far. We're going to talk about a whole different murder now. Okay. She says she thinks her husband may have killed an 89-year-old woman in 1995 named Dorothy Martin in Pullman, Washington.

Yeah? Because he gave her a very specific and expensive ring after a robbery, and she's seen that's linked to this old lady that's been dead. So she popped up and said, now at this point, they were divorced, Anita and her husband. But she said that they've been living together. Anita told the officers that another woman, Sky Hanson, offered her husband, Bradley Steckman, a thousand dollars to steal this old lady's diamond ring. Uh-huh. Okay. She also said that before the murder, she went to this woman's home, the old lady's home, with her husband and tried unsuccessfully to break in through a window.

Shit. Anita tells police that her ex-husband worked for Sky Hansen around July 96 when this murder happened. So apparently he had cased places for Sky Hanson and would return later to commit burglaries and robberies of those places. Anita said that Sky Hansen asked him to steal the it's a white, golden diamond ring, reportedly worth $30,000. And she offered him $1,000 for it. Okay. So Bradley, she said, her husband, led her to the elderly woman's ground floor apartment and the two made an unsuccessful attempt to break in through the window. Shortly after that, Anita told police her husband returned home after being out all night.

She said he told her he had broken into a manager's unit, stolen some keys and other items, and broken into Dorothy Martin's apartment, the 89-year-old. She told police her her husband told her that he had turned the ring over to Sky Hansen. Okay. All right. They, he also had other items from the apartment besides the ring.

Investigators also find a, because at this point when she comes forward, he's already in jail for burglary, her husband. So they find a cellmate of his that also comes forward who says that Steckman, that this guy told him about it and provides more evidence for the police.

Now, this is Bradley Marion Steckman, S-T-E-E. E-C-K-M-A-N. He's known throughout the Washington, Eastern Washington and Northern Idaho area as, quote, the gentleman robber. The gentleman robber. He's got a fucking Nick.

That's how much he robs. They named him. In 1996, he apparently murdered 89-year-old Dorothy Martin that we find out. 89. What the fuck? He'd been living...

$30,000 ring? He was hired to do. apparently he has a history, huge history of lesser charges and would case and steal case homes and steal jewelry. Now, Dorothy Martin was found with a towel wrapped around her head in her condominium with a distinctive ring with multiple European cut diamonds totaling more than three carrots and a few other items were missing and then nothing else was disturbed. The rest of the house was perfect.

Literally for a ring. For a ring. She, her husband had died in 1974. She'd been living on her own for, you know, 20 years, and they owned a auto service shop that her son ran. But she was found dead in her military hill condominium, July 21st, 1996. Autopsy results indicate that she died of asphyxiation, but she was in good health at 89. The weird thing is, too, several items taken, including from the manager's apartment a few feet away. The keys were stolen there.

And they were trying to figure out who did this for these three years, basically. But they also have a Polaroid camera and a radio that were also taken from there were found among Bradley Steckman's things. Whoops. So he had that. And she was discovered in a Martin was discovered in a night gown with a Terry cloth towel wrapped around her head. The investigation took more than, you know, four. four years as we find out later as it goes on. Now,

leads in the case were first slim, so the Martin family put up a $20,000 reward, but that offer ended in 1998, which I didn't know there was, I didn't know there was expiration dates on rewards for dead people. They're open-ended usually, aren't they? I would assume, 98, you go, we don't care anymore,

and we're pulling the, who does that? That's the weirdest thing ever. We pulled the money. We've invested it. We put it somewhere else. They said it was well over three years, after the murder before a tip came in.

So apparently, Sky Hansen had done some carpentry jobs for Dorothy Martin. That's how she knew she had the ring. They said police found her name in Dorothy Martin's address book at the time of the killing, but didn't have anything to connect. They just called everybody in the address book, and she just said, yeah, I did some work for her. And they were like, oh, all right, and that was that. They learned that Bradley Steckman, though, had ties to Sky Hanson. and Tina Loche.

Now, they want to talk to Sky and Tina again after they talk to Bradley, but they can't find them because they've disappeared. Yep. Before Hansen disappeared, she told investigators that Martin hired her to install closet organizers at the condo and refinish a table. So Hansen said that she was familiar with Hansen's, with Martin's residence and security measures. So they'd like to talk to her. obviously. By the way, Steckman's going to admit to this,

Bradley Steckman, this murder. He went in there just to rob her, but she put up a fight and he struggled with her and he had to fucking suffocate her. He had to put a pillow over her face and suffocate her because he couldn't physically control

an 89-year-old woman. I couldn't keep that old lady at bay to get this goddamn ring. Christ, oh, but you have to wrestle it off her finger for fuck's sake, pull it from her bony finger? That's awful. Imagine your life is worth 30 grand.

That's so crazy. Barely, a grand to the guy who did it. Right. You know? So while officers pursued Steckman, clues kept coming in, found among Bradley Steckman's belongings were a bent butter knife

used to attempt to break into Martin's home, which is what the wife told them they used before that. And also information from a jeweler who thinks he's seen the diamonds from Martin's Ring. He said that Sky Hanson brought him a sack of loose stones to be appraised in 1996 right after

the murders, and the gems included some European cut diamonds that the jeweler thought resembled those in the picture of Martin's Ring. How many of those are in Pullman, Washington? Now, a suspect, this is Bradley,

he decides to strike a deal here, and part of that deal is he is going to tell the cops what he knows about Sky and Tina. Oh. Because he worked for their renovation company and obviously did their bidding. The cop said Stekman was basically Sky Hanson's thug and that he told police that she had requested, she had break into the house, steal the ring and that she had seen while working there. Okay.

So Sky and Tina fall off the face of the earth with Christopher. They took the kid with him. They took the kid. Now, police are concerned. They say they're concerned for Christopher's welfare, but also they want to, you know, get them in there in the box and interrogate them. So they said they threw all their resources into finding them, including monitoring border crossings and plane flights but came up with nothing. You can't find a kid? A kid and two ladies.

Can't find them. So Brad is charged with robbery and first degree murder, first off here. but he's in jail and they have to charge him now because he was soon to be released on parole. So they had to re-arrest him and charge him. So 2001, he, the, the Dorothy Martin's family agrees to let them do a deal. And they said something like this we wouldn't have even presented had the family not been okay with it. He pleads guilty to second-degree murder during a robbery. And he's sentenced to you, sir, may fuck off.

18 years in prison for that. Oh, he's lucky. Which seems light. That's very light for a second degree. Seems like the judge said, well, 89, how much time she have left? That's odd, but that seems like that's what they said. You know what I mean? I don't know what another calculation.

35 at this point. A chance for sure. 32 maybe at that point that he pled. So he goes to prison for the murder of Dorothy Martin. Once again, the Loche family, they still have no answers. Okay. 2003, he comes forward and he's got more to say. He says, I killed Barbara Loche.

Oh. Yeah. Why did you do that? Well, money. They were supposed to pay him part of the insurance. And by the way, I understand that part. Why did he come forward? They stuck him and never paid him.

Oh, that'll do it. Yep. You're supposed to get 10 grand and they didn't, they stiffed him. He says, okay, Tina and Sky, I hired him to carry out the murder and make it look like an accident. They claimed they were going to give him $10,000. He said that he had an accomplice. We don't know who salt the water in the hot tub first to increase its conductivity.

Okay. This is diabolical. Yeah. Okay. He said that he told the police that he lured Barbara into the hot tub to watch television. He was there with Tina. He said. He lowered her in to watch television.

He stuck a pencil in the back of the set to bypass the circuit breaker shit, the electrocution safeguards that are in all electronics. Yeah. He put a pencil in there to block it off. But wouldn't that? He knew how to do that. Yeah. It worked. So, I mean, it worked.

It's crazy. The house didn't have the safeguard. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. It doesn't, that's not what kills her. they said that just it stuns her basically oh so they said that he uh he did that quote Tim plugged the extension cord in or Tina plugged the extension cord in while I set the TV on the hot tub is what he said he said he pushed the TV in the electric shock like stunned her and

knocked her sort of unconscious but didn't kill her then they rolled her over on her stomach and Tina held her head underwater until she drowned, he said. That is fucked up. That is fucking diabolical. Gross. And to plan all this out ahead? Wow. They said, then the detective said he must have unplugged that TV so Tina could go ahead and finish what she started.

So the water wouldn't be dangerous. Once that plan had been carried out, they said Tina held her underwater for about two minutes. And he said, quote, Tina fell apart on the way back home. crying and vomiting. Well, yeah, you just murder somebody. That's showing some form of humanness at least. Jesus, at least she wasn't like, good fucker. Your mother. Your mother, who's been nice to you, by the way, hasn't been shitty to you.

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That's the number three, D-A-Y-Blines.com slash podcast. Now, Brad has even more shit to talk about. What? He said, not only did I kill Barbara, I was asked to follow, Gary and pinpoint locations on his paper route that would be the best spot to murder him. Sky Hansen hired me to do that. Wow. He said, but he, quote, swears he didn't fire the shot.

He said, I wasn't even there. I told them the spot to go. I followed him for a couple days. He knew where he went, told them where to go. Female DNA. Yeah, on the cigarettes. Put two and two together with that. This sky is crazy.

Sky is a bad, bad bitch, man. She's horrible. Rough. So they said they keep visiting Stekman in prison and they said he confessed. He's been given more details. And they said, quote, this is a cop. This wasn't unexpected. They have summarized their evidence.

We will review and make sure in a week or two whether to file charges and to file and what to file. They said people on the scene that day, meaning Barbara's murder, we were not comfortable with the layout of the crime scene. since day one. Post falls does not get a lot of homicides, but this one was screaming. The more we looked and the more we deciphered, the more it was not adding up. That's why we never let up on it. And then one detective said, Brad never did see the 10,000. I think that's why he cooperated. I think he felt it was probably in his best interest to come forward and tell his side. I think he realized that we in the county were not going to give up. No, he didn't. You were never going to catch him. This was going to be unsolved to this day.

Right. You got a guy that participated in three murders and has a thousand dollars net to show for it. He's pissed. He's pissed. And 18 years. And he's sitting in fucking jail for 18 years with nothing on his books. Yeah. He's no commissary. He's pissed. They said the combination of the husband's murder and more or less some gut feelings I always had suspected that this was not an accident and this was not a suicide. It's quite the case. I'm not satisfied that we have the whole story at this point. Oh, and you don't. Trust me. It gets weirder. Okay. because they're terrible at your job. You're terrible. Now, they can't arrest the ladies, number one, because they can't fucking find them. They have no idea where they are. And number two, Brad's a co-conspirator with no other corroboration, so he would not be allowed to testify against them in court. So they've got nothing. They got who gots at this point.

They have nothing. Then 2004, the lead detective said in the newspaper, he believes Tina's dead. He believes she's dead. He said he wonders if, you know, her son, Christopher. is also dead. Yeah. Is he dead too? He said he's scouring national databases for missing and exploited children to try to find

some trace of Christopher and has placed Tina's dental records on a national crime computer hoping if there's some Jane Doe somewhere out there, it may be matched as her. So they're already looking for dental records. Now, Chuck hears about all this. They tell the family, obviously. And Chuck said, holy fuck. He said, the last time I saw my sister was at my mother's funeral. He said, I had no idea she was involved in any of this.

And he said, she's one hell of an actress. I'll say that much for her. Really? Yeah, he hasn't seen Christopher. He said since he was maybe two years old. He hasn't seen him in years and years. He said, Tina was always mixed up with the wrong crowd. Always causing trouble.

Always. This is beyond causing trouble. Yeah. So 2004, they make a deal with Steckman to plead guilty for the barber murder here as well. So he is going to be sentenced here. It's a plea bargain, and they said the state has nothing to solve the homicide, and without him coming forward, they have nothing. So they had to do this deal, basically. They give him, you, sir, may fuck off life in prison with possible parole after 15 years.

So now he's doing 33? It's to run concurrently with the other sentence. All right. Still 18. It goes back to the beginning. It's retroactive. We'll find out. He's eligible for.

parole for everything in 2016. 16. That's fucking crazy. Anyway, there's reactions here. Laura Loche, who's Randy's wife, said, we're ecstatic. This is closure for part of it. We knew that this in the back of our minds that she was murdered, but it wasn't in your face like it was with Gary. They said they've reopened the investigation into the Gary Loche killing, but

it's in limbo as they were hammering out this other plea bargain. They got a lot to do. 2006, they reopened Barbara's case to try to find Tina and Sky. Okay. They name them as persons of interest officially. Yeah. So they say they're urgent. Is there any way to get the money back from them?

Not if it's gone. They can't even find them, never mind the money. So he said that at one time he thought that Tina and Christopher were dead, but he said that he's not sure now. And he said that the Post Falls police were trying to keep the case. quiet in hopes they wouldn't go deeper into hiding. He said that to a newspaper reporter who put that in the newspaper, which is very smart. Hello, media. Please don't say anything about this. We're trying to keep something quiet. Everybody good with that here?

So, yeah, they tried the U.S. Marshal Service, and they said the key to this case are these two here, Tina and Sky, tapping on mugshots of them. They were last seen loading an RV in Seattle in October 99. They got an RV. Now, the son Christopher, they find out that Christopher was living with other people from 99 to 2000. He was living with a Spokane defense attorney named Julie Twyford, apparently. And he was enrolled in Spokane's Shiloh Hills Elementary School under the name Christopher Robinson, like Winnie the Pooh or something. Again, why people cannot come up with shit. Remember Bill Longton?

from the maternal instinct. That's crazy. Robert Ravin Sin. Son. Yeah. They said then he just didn't show up for school one day and his transcripts have never been forwarded. Wow. Now they went and interviewed Steve Kassell, who was apparently, I believe, living with the lawyer,

one of the people watching Christopher. And he was charged of charges of illegal money transactions. And he said he doesn't know where he is either. And he doesn't know. He said that they didn't, they don't know anything. Twyford, by the way, had represented the South Hill rapist, Kevin Coe. So that's why he was famous. Now, the reason why Cassell got in trouble, he was trying to sell Sky's houses.

So he apparently has some connection with these people, but says he doesn't know where they are. But if you sell the homes, then where does the money go, Dickhead? That's the point. Exactly. Authorities say Twyford and Castle deny knowing anything about the boy or the women's whereabouts. but Hansen's Corvette is in their garage. So they had one of their sons and one of their Corvettes, which is like a child, to a childless person.

And power of attorney to sell property for them. Where the fuck are they? Where are they? They won't say, and they have no way to compel them to tell them, basically. January 2008 case is still active. They're still looking for these women here. October 2008, they say, fuck it. We need help.

And they said, we hit a dead end and we needed help. And they said without, they had to issue arrest warrants for them at this point. They said, without the warrants, we couldn't get help from the federal government. And more importantly, America's Most Wanted wouldn't touch the case. And they really wanted to put it out there to America's Most Wanted. We need fucking Walsh. Need him or not, was somebody else by then maybe? I don't know.

Either way. 2008, I think it's still Walsh. Probably. Either way, though, they basically think that they've, tried everything. The marshals, the FBI. No one can find these people. So maybe just somebody in a 7-Eleven will run into them and whatever. Now, America's Most Wanted, they interview the police and they, you know, have a big, you know, episode on the whole thing. It's on November 15th, 2008. They were on a segment. It's, I believe, the 8 o'clock or 8.30 time slot.

Okay. So three hours later, after the segment airs, 1130 p.m. on November 15th, a motorist comes across a white Dodge Durango on a road northwest of Tucson, Arizona. Oh. On the side of the road, okay? So inside the car, they call the cops just to say there's a car on the side of the road. Inside the car, they find the bodies of Tina and Sky.

Dead. What? Dead. Both with gunshot wounds, Tina holding a 9mm. Murder suicide. Murder fucking suicide. They said three hours. after the case was aired on America's Most Wanted,

they were found dead in the desert of Tucson, Arizona. The detector said. Unbelievable. They said that the authorities arrived at the site. They found the bodies and an eight-page suicide note expressing regret over the crime and Sky left a will as well. They discovered gunshot wounds to the head that were inflicted by the 9mm found in the vehicle near Teens' hand.

They, you know, yeah. So they were, they were, they were. trying to, in the letter that Tina was alleged to have been involved in the killing of her father, she said that she had nothing to do with it. Okay. They said, obviously, this was a suicide pact, clearly. The eerie, weird thing, they denied, they killed Barbara. They denied everything, but they said they can't go back to prison, basically.

And they had been telling people they know that they weren't going back to prison. America's Most Wanted aired, and they went, we're going back to prison. And they got the car and went out and shot themselves. Nowhere in the suicide note did they mention Christopher. What? who would now be 17 years old and still has not been seen. No one knows where he is. So according to a detective who talked to somebody they know,

Tina and Sky saw a commercial for America's Most Wanted and told their friend they'd rather die than go back to prison, got the Durango, and took off. Hanson had started another home improvement business, but it was unlicensed and didn't pay taxes. They hadn't changed their names legally, but were known in Tucson by different names. Tina was Dawn and Hansen was Katie.

So they said that neighbors in Tucson told the investigators that Christopher had been living with his mother in 2002, but she told them she sent him to live with his father because he was too much to handle. We don't even know who his father is and neither to the police. So they don't know. They were searching. They said in Spokane is where he was sent, but they don't know anything. So they're looking, obviously, they were looking to talk to the two, 12. Wyford and Castle the people used to have Christopher to find out maybe if they know where he is. But they said they have not seen the boy for many, many years.

So, police arrive at Sky and Tina's house to search for. In Tucson. It's under renovation and all of their belongings are boxed up in the garage. Great. Like they were about to make a run for it somewhere. You already boxed them for us. Perfect. But the weird thing is, underneath the boxes, they found hundreds and hundreds.

Hundreds of dryer sheets laid out. Oh? Hundreds and hundreds of dryer sheets. Why would you do that? They're hiding the scent of a body? Something. They said what it meant to me was they were trying to mask an odor, the detective said. They dug up the area.

There were hits by cadaver dogs, but no remains were found. What? They had that fucking kid buried in that garage for a long time and then moved on. A long time. Okay. So the detective said, what happened to Chris? Christopher, to this day, we don't know. He just vanished.

We don't know if we've potentially found another homicide in this case. He may. When I picked this case, it was about a lady floating in a hot tub. And then I'm like, what the fuck? All these things are coming out. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, this is crazy. What'd they do with Christopher? We don't know.

They said, they moved him, right? They had to have. Finding him is our top priority. Information we have so far is that he was in the Tucson area in late 99. He was sent to live with his father about a year after that because of the boy, exhibiting behavioral problems. They don't know his father's identity. Yeah, no record of the women changing their last names to avoid law enforcement.

They just didn't do anything under their names. So they called the Pima County Sheriff called Idaho. And they said, the Idaho police said, we got to call that night from the Pima County Sheriff's Office. They said, I think we may have found your girls. Well, we definitely did. Yeah. Yeah. The funny thing is, the lead detective from Idaho said, when I got the call from Tucson,

I was skeptical. Of what? They're dead. Skeb? What, they're not them? What are you talking about? He said it had been...

Was it April 1st? Otherwise, why? Why would you make this up on November 15th? He said it had been so difficult to find them over the years that I didn't think it's possible. If I can't find them, they must have vaporized. Because I'm the best. I'm the same guy who said, the hardest thing about this is finding out who did it. Wow. He said once we determined it was them, I had a lot of questions.

Well, you're not going to get any answer from them. No, one's going to answer. No, they're not talking right now, unfortunately. They're not taking questions. He said that the Loche family called it a relief. And the detective said they won't have to keep looking over their shoulders and wondering if these two might be coming back for any of them. By the way, were there any actual tips from America's Most Wanted? Like, did this matter? Yeah. Because if there was no tips, then they did this for nothing. They had over 50 tips from all over the country. One pointed to Arizona. Is that right? So they might have been busted by that one tip,

or it might have just been some horseshit coincidence and they wouldn't even have got in trouble for it. It may have been somebody from Flagstaff thinking they saw somebody. Exactly. 2011, Chuck hopes that the deadly sin TV show can help solve his dad's murder. I think we solved his dad's murder. I think not we, but yeah. Yeah, I think it's been solved.

They have DNA and they have a couple of bodies. You could have checked that. They have a guy admitting to what he did, female DNA. We could put it together what happened here probably. But he said, Chuck said, who exactly was part of it, who was responsible for my father's death? And where is Christopher? That's a good question. That's a good question.

He said, the lead detective said, we have scoured the earth for him and not found any leads to where he may be. It's unbelievable. So, yeah. They have no idea where he may be. Scour the earth for him, they said. So they said it would be a big sigh of relief to find out exactly what happened. Now, this is how deadly sins executive producer described the story.

Quote, it's a fascinating story of how sinister people can be. Every man, woman, and child are guilty of sin. But this show takes a look at what happens when sin becomes deadly. Good Lord. God. See, this is why we make a comedy show about this because that, that, if we said that, that's horrible. Because that's the alternative. Every man, woman, and child are guilty of sin. You want to hear that from us? No. You don't mind. Every child's guilty of sin? The fuck out of here. What kind of life is that to live? Jesus, that's what you're living, how you're living.

December 12, 2012, Bradley dies. He's dead. Bradley's fucking dead. Died at the Valley Hospital Medical Center while serving a sentence. Four years short of parole. Take that, sir. Take that. 2020, where the fuck is Christopher? What is happening? The detective said that he and other members of the department think about Chris often.

They said if he's still alive, he'd be 30 years old by this point. The one detective said, I hope so. I hope Christopher's alive and off living his life somewhere, but I have my doubts. And Christopher Chuck also said, quote, there might be a slight possibility he's in another country. I have a tendency to believe he's in Belize. My sister and her girlfriends had connections there. Oh, really?

They fucking killed that boy. And he was an inconvenience and they killed him. You could certainly tell your family that, like when the dog dies. But the kid's probably dead. Belize is doggy heaven for this kid. That's all it is. 13-year-old. Yeah.

As of 2024, still nobody found Christopher. Gone. I mean, it's never found. If you don't see a kid, a 34-year-old, he's probably not coming around ever again. So they did an episode of killer couples and they did an episode of deadly sins called greed. I guess that was the deadly sin they were talking about. Barbara and Gary are buried at the Evergreen Cemetery in Post Falls. Dorothy is buried in the Moscow Cemetery in Lata County, Lata County, Idaho.

And Tina was cremated. Oh, Christopher was buried in a garage and then moved to the desert probably where he was eaten by animals, I would assume. That's my guess. That's so fucked up. So fucked up. How fucked of a case is this? How terrible of a person do you got to be to value your mother's life at $530,000?

Your father's with nothing. Nothing. He pissed you off because you don't like, because Sky was mad at him. And then your son you got nothing out of. Your mother, this guy killed an old lady. I mean, the whole thing. This is a horrible. What do we get?

Four, at least one to at least three and possibly four murders out of this case? This is insanity. So anyway, if you like this show or anything about it, please get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It helps a ton. Netflix, thumbs up. It helps so much. So thank you if you enjoy what you're here.

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