Small Town Murder - Phantom Of The Neighborhood - Acme, Washington

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

This week, in Acme, Washington, a young woman vanishes while on a jog, on her very rural road. When she's found, brutalized & very dead, it's clear that there's a very sick person in the area, even prompting the police to look into the Green River Killer. Despite several suspects, detectives have nothing to go on, except hunches, and some DNA that they can't seem to match to anyone. Then, two women having a seemingly casual conversation at a waterpark, cracks the whole case, and reveals a murderer, that is as ordinary a man as there could be!!   Along the way, we find out that the diner seems to be the center of social interaction in some small towns, that you should consider it very good service, when you call to file a missing person report, and the police send a "human tracker" right out, and that "murder stay murder"!!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!! Check us out on VIDEO Wednesday and Friday evenings on Netflix! www.netflix.com/smalltownmurder Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

Murder in the Heartland, a podcast from ID, explores real crimes across small town America, towns that may look a lot like your own. Each week uncover shocking stories of murder and betrayal from a suspicious hunting accident to a college student who disappears after her shift to the local bar. Hear from investigators, witnesses, and family members as they share the chilling details behind each case. If you're interested in true crime with a small town twist, I think you'll enjoy this podcast. Listen to Murder in the Heartland wherever you get your podcasts. Your sales order says one thing. Your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says good luck.

O-Doo brings your business together on a single platform. From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's ODO.com. This week, in Ackme, Washington, a young woman vanishes while on a jog on her very rural road, and when she's found brutalized and very dead, it's clear that there's a very sick person in the area, even prompting police to look into the Green River Killer, but it turns out to be the most ordinary guy possible. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petro Gallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another crazy, wild, insane edition of Small Town Murder, as it is every week. That should be no shock. Oh, it's a crazy one this week.

Didn't expect that. Super weird. strange. It's saving them. It's great. Yeah, you know, save them up for now. Before we get to that, though, absolutely head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Tons of merchandise there, but get your tickets to live shows.

That is what we're talking about. Definitely September the 18th at the Pabst in Milwaukee, not a ton of tickets left for that one. So if you want them, I suggest getting them now. And then the next night, September 19th in Minneapolis at the state theater, get your tickets right now. that's going to be great. We can't wait for those two more months to go and we're excited for it. And then for the rest of the year, we're in Dallas, Sacramento, San Jose in October and then Terrytown in Boston in November. So get those tickets. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you do that. Definitely also listen to our other two shows, crime in sports and your stupid opinions because you like comedy and they're very funny. So check that out. Then get Patreon. That's what you need.

Patreon.com slash crime in sports. P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash crime in sports, just like the name of that show you should listen to. This, and what you do for that is anybody $5 a month or above, you get everything. Everything. Every damn thing we put out. That's how it goes here.

You get everything. As soon as you subscribe, you get hundreds of back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Then you get new ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small-town murder, and how much do they get to that? I can't remember. I think I just heard everything.

It's everything. That's exactly right. Yeah, there it is. Okay. So this week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, Kirby Puckett Time. When we talk about Kirby, you had some run-ins and some tragedy and some interesting stuff there. Then for small-town murder, it is maternal instinct, the documentary, and everything that, not just the documentary, everything around at this crazy woman who, wow, cut a baby out of a woman and then said, no, I just had this baby. This is my baby.

Just came out of me. Something wrong with her. I don't know what's wrong with her. with it, but something's, it's crazy stuff. I've watched all the interrogations and everything, and she has so many wild excuses. It's crazy, can't we? I love her incredulous face.

She's real good at it. Yeah, she pulls the good. I don't know what you mean. Like, she practiced that as a kid a lot. Cookie, huh? Broke the lamp, what? What cookie? Ball in the house?

Nuh. So check that out. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. addition to that and all the stuff you get, all the, you know, the actual episode, the everything. You also get everything we put out ad free as well. All our shows, crime and sports, your stupid opinions, and small town murder. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show, which is this one where Jimmy will pronounce your name.

That's all you can have. That's all we got. So that said, disclaimer time. Yeah. This is a comedy show. Everybody, it is. It's a comedy show. We're comedians.

Obviously, people are going to die. You saw the title of the show. so people are going to die and we're going to make jokes and you're going to go, well, how does that work? That sounds weird. It's not that weird, actually. There's plenty of stuff to make fun of. We make fun of a small town because we're all from somewhere worth making fun of. We'll make fun of maybe a bumbling police force to let somebody go free and doesn't, you know, do their jobs and more people get killed. We'll make fun of murderers because why, Jimmy? Because fuck them. That's why. Exactly. But what we don't do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims families. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. Yeah, that works. That's very simple.

That's how it goes. So if you think that true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, you might not like the show. But I think you might. You should stick around, check it out, and here's the deal we'll make. Either way, no complaining later. How's that sound, everybody? That's a good deal, I think, for everyone here. So that said, I think it's time to sit back.

Clear the lungs here. What do we say? Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

Yeah. Let's do it. Round it up. We're going to Washington, everybody. Fucking A. Let's do it. Pacific Northwest. Here we come.

We're going to Acme, Washington here, which is in northwestern Washington, way up in northwestern Washington, north of Seattle up there. It's about an hour and 35 minutes to Seattle. about an hour 40 to Vancouver, British Columbia. So kind of right in the middle of those two. And an hour 45 to Freeland, Washington, which is our last Washington episode, way back episode 657, so it's been a while. For some reason, I completely spaced on Washington. I usually try to, you know, do them to stagger them at a normal rate. And this one, I was like, we haven't done Washington in a long-ass time. This is crazy. That was the beauty queen

conspiracy murder. I think we, that was a crazy episode. I often times lump Oregon and Washington into the same state. I think a lot of people do. They're the same. It's rainy and foresty and it's all pretty much to say. They are exactly the same. There's a border, but, you know, I mean, it's fine.

It's same. Vermont and New Hampshire. Identical. Vermont and New Hampshire. Identical. They are even the same state just upside down. Just upside down. It's fucking ridiculous.

Yeah. It's the same thing. That's the northeastern Oregon, Washington. Washington and Oregon would be the same shape if it weren't for that little, that little chouly shit up the top. Yeah, all that water. That pesky shoreline. It tends to make things unique.

This is in Watcom County. It's like Watcom, like watt.com is what it looks like. There was a dot in there. Area code 360. A little bit of history. There are two accounts on how the name Acme came to be and how it happened. Yeah. It happened here.

The first of these theories is that Acme was named by a guy named Samuel Parks, around 1887, after the name of a hymnal in his possession. What's that? Something religious. Him is in there, I assume something. Oh, a hymnal is a book, right? You know, you're asking them? It's a book of hymns, I think.

I hear him, I think, yeah, something religious. That's what has to be. The second claims that the same year, in 1887, a resident named George Parles named the town after a local church's newly received Acme hymn book. Acme was the brand that made the hymn book. So it's from a hymn book. We just don't know who figured out that that's where it should come from. But it's hilarious that, and they made all of that. And then they made giant rockets for coyotes to explode in the desert.

Anvils. And giant anvil. way too big anvils that really are useless for any purpose. Huge fucking anvil. What purpose is that anvil for, honestly, other than trying to crush a stray roadrunner? I can't think of it. Never, I don't, was he supposed to be eating the roadrunner?

Was that the idea? He was wanted to kill it and eat it. Yeah, but he couldn't catch it. It's the biggest fucking roadrunner I ever saw it, too. Oh, the thing was taller than him. Yeah, it was crazy. It was huge. Good eating.

Good eating in that roadrunner. So either way, that's what it is. Acme is the Greek word meaning culmination or highest point. Oh. So Acme is, this is in a river valley, so it grew into a place where people started coming. They built schools and post offices and a general store and everything like that. And they had dirt roads actually that they built that were placed just the walking and horse trails they had. By the time of the Great Depression, the local timber started to run out, running out of trees.

Oh, no. That quick. We're all tapped. They deforested fast. Real fast. So then there was no more logging jobs, so the population shrank in this area. Now, they have a maple syrup thing here, apparently. It's reportedly home to the only big leaf maple syrup producer in the western United States.

Big leaf. I don't know what that is. I don't understand it, but they make it and it's the only one in the West. I'm not sure. Are there little leaf maples? I have no clue. Or small leaf, I imagine. Two things I'm unsure about and I have don't have a great vast field of knowledge on are hymns and maple syrup.

I'm not positive. I don't know a lot about this. I don't know a lot about that. You'd have to be a religious scholar, a botanist. To know everything this show has, it's really too much. Timberman. Timberman. Now, reviews of this town, I only found one because it's a very small town.

Here's five stars. The town is quite small, but also very welcoming, and it provides a comforting and friendly environment. So the opposite of what normal small towns are. Yeah, they're very welcoming. The views are gorgeous due to the nature around the area as well as views of the Twin Sisters Mountains. Right. This town is a town that will put you at ease.

You bet. Put you right at ease, Jimmy. Now, people in this town, population, it varies, okay, from where you're not. you look. But it seems like in Acme proper, there's like 100 people. Then in the zip code, which encompasses kind of all the surrounding stuff, there's like 223 people. So that's the whole area.

It's about 225. There's nobody here. There's more men than women. I don't know. That's usually only small towns have that. 50.9% men. median age is 41.4, which is, I think, three years older than the national average. It's 44.6% married.

This is a stat you only get in a small town. Very small because there's not enough people. 0.0% divorced. Well. No divorced people live here. That's amazing. 100% married or 100% never married? 100% single or married.

That's it. No divorced people. A race of this town. Well, I guess widowed isn't. Divorced either, right? It's widowed, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would, yeah, you know, that would be amazing.

Well, I consider myself divorced. My husband was eaten by a bear. That's a dissolved wedding for sure. Yeah, it's not a marriage anymore. Race of this town, 95.3% white. And in Acme proper, it's 100% white, just in the zip code outside. It's a few more. So 2% Hispanic and 2.8% two or more races.

I'm assuming white and Hispanic would be my guess. Now, 29.7% of the people here are religious. There's a giant volcano nearby. I would assume you'd go, yeah, you'd go, okay, whatever's going on. That's the reality here is there's a giant volcano. I don't know if it's active or not. Beats the shit out of me. I mean, if it's a volcano.

Volcanoes, maple leaves, hymns, I am packed. I don't know shit about it. There's a volcano in northern Arizona, too, that's active. It hasn't erupted in hundreds of years. Who the fuck? Yeah, yeah. Active can be dormant for a long, long, long time. Mount St. Helens is technically active, right? Yeah, last time that happened was like 81 or something, right?

Yeah, 81 or 82, something like that. Early 80s, it popped, I remember. But, I mean, that was 45 years ago. So that's a long time ago. Now, 29.7% religious, like I said, and the highest one here is other Christian, and it's really broken up. That's only 9%. So it's broken up.

2% Lutheran, 6.6.6. Episcopalian, 0.3% Jewish. It's a hodgepodge. Unemployment here slightly above average is, I don't know how it wouldn't be with only 225 people around. Median household income here for the zip code, though, $102,014 a year, which is well above the national average. That's not bad. Now, cost of living also a little bit high. 100 is regular average. Here it's 117.5. God damn. High. Housing is the high high one too. Median home cost here, $470,600. And we're not talking for 100 acres or for big mansions.

We're talking for family homes. It is $500,000 for a rundown family home. And if you want to find some of them, because you want to be people 224 and 225 moving into this town. We have for you the Acme, Washington, real estate, report. All right. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for a thousand 70, which I don't know how many

two-bedroom rentals. Yeah, I don't know how many there would be here, though. That can't be many. Here is, the first one is just a lot. 41.71 acres, this lot. Wow. Big lot. You know, gorgeous.

It says mountain views, mountain views, road access, trees, elk, trees, creek, trees, creek, Wetlands even touches the mighty Samish River at its headwaters, and there's elk. Yeah. There's elk. That's fun. That is going to be $280,000. Can you hunt elk on your own property? I assume so up there probably.

I imagine you can kill that, right? I think that you could probably do pretty much whatever you want up here. I don't think there's a lot of... Yeah, I don't think with 40 acres many people are coming around. No, here is another house. Two-bedroom one bath, small, $1,900. 92 square feet. So not a huge house, but decent. Nice inside, well-maintained, very nice landscaping. It's built in 1900, this house. Wow. So very old time here. Only a 1.59-acre lot. So good price property,

two acres. Four hundred forty-five thousand bucks for that, though. Two acres for, that's rough. This next one. The middle of fucking nowhere. Two bed, one bath, nine hundred sixty-six square feet. It is an ugly green box, this house. Just an ugly green box. It's on 0.8 acres of land. Yeah? But it is right on the river.

Like the river's in your yard. The river's about 100 feet from the house. Is that the Samish? No, this is the nuke sack or nut sack or whatever the hell it's called. Yeah. That one, because that plays a prominent role in our story, too. But it is right on the river. So that is $575,000 for that.

a shack on the river. There you go. I didn't know a river house was sought after. Fuck, I guess so. I mean, a river's, that's nice. The houses on the Hudson are nice. They're big old houses, I know, but this isn't the Hudson either. This is...

Right. This river doesn't look a lot bigger than the creek that's behind my house. That's what I mean. As you get west, they're real loosey-goosey with the word river. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, people hear Creek, and then they come to my house and they go, holy shit, this is a fucking river. Like I thought, they were expecting like, you know, some dribbling water through some rocks.

I'm like, this is a lot of something. Things to do here, not a lot in a town of 225. Live music at the Acme Diner Beer Garden. All right. Go watch the show at the diner. Tom's playing. Tom will be there. Well, let's find out.

First of all, we have live music from Paradox. Fucking A. Bring your lawn chairs. Grab your favorite food and drinks from the. me diner and settle in for a night of fun in the beer garden. Hold on. This is outside. It's outdoors in the beer garden.

At the diner, outside the diner. Sit in the diner parking lot and watch this. Even Ludacris is like, no, I don't even, I can't even send one of my clones there. I can't even do it. There's also Mudbottom Maddie. Who's she? I don't know. Folk music for the fun of it, it says.

All right. Also there, Charlie Parton, not Parton like Dolly. P-A-R-T-I-N He wants you to think he's related to Dolly, though, if you're here. Soulful, raspy vocals and heartfelt stories. Charlie Barton. Huge tits. What an asshole.

He's a tit, all right. Unless that's his real name, he's a douchebag. Unless his parents named him Charlie Barton. A heartfelt storytelling, blending raw country and Americana into a sound that's perfect for a laid-back night in the valley. Oh, he's trying to be. That's what she is. She has a rags to riches story that's beautiful. Raspi vocals is her is his thing, though.

Aspen Birchfield, acoustic indie folk set. Oh, God, that sounds terrible. Aspen, that's two different kinds of trees. Aspen Birchfield, exactly. The groove doctors. Right. It's probably like the drummer from the spin doctors, and he's like, well, they kick me out of the fucking band. And I got it as no one knows who I am.

This is white people. The Groove Doctors. There's no groove to be at. An electrifying mix of blues, rock, R&B, classic covers, originals, you know, horse shit at a beer. No, you're too white for this. Stop it. The Happy Accidents. That's one of my favorite names.

That's good. Blending blues, rock, folk, and country, they deliver a soulful, feel-good sound of original music that gets your toes tapping and your heart singing. Oh, God. I hold it. How about? enchantrics. What? With an ex,

enchantrix. Sounds like, that sounds sexual. It sounds like a sex toy. Sounds like a dildo. I got, I got my wife the enchantrix. Now she won't fucking come out of the room anymore.

She locks the door. I can't get her out. It twists and thrust. This enchantrix ruin my marriage, man. It's enchanting tantric sex without me. It's too much. It came in a box the size of a fucking Chevy. It was crazy.

It spins. It's got pearls inside. How am I supposed to come to be? There's other things. And there's a, There's a tentacle arm that comes off and dittles her. There's a lot going on. Also, I got this sing that barely gets hard anymore.

Fuck. They have killer guitar riffs, powerful female vocals, and a big dynamic sound that keeps the energy up. How about JP, JP Falcon Grady? Falcon Grady, a Native American singer-songwriter from Browning, Montana. Okay. Oh, we got an out-of-towner. And out of town or you drove all the way here for this. And then the saltwater cowboys.

Okay. They're local. Local country band, it sounds like. That said, crime rate in this town. What we are interested in. Property crime, this is crazy. This is a town of 225 people. Yeah.

Almost double the average for property. What? We've never heard of this in a small town. And you'd think, well, maybe that's an anomaly. Maybe somebody last year went nuts and broke out a bunch of car windows and drove up the crime rate. Well, no, violent crime. murder, rape robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is almost triple the national average. What the fuck is happening in this place?

Do you know if it's year after year that keeps doing this? Not sure. That's what it is this time. Unless they had a real bad year last year, this is great. Is it meth? Is that what's going on? I don't know. Mountain air, babe.

That said, that's not mountain air. It's on the coast, right? No, it's inland a little bit. Okay. It's by them in the mountains. But anyway, let's talk about some murder. What do you say here, everybody? Let's get murdery.

Okay. Wow, interesting here. Let us go back in time, shall we? Let's go back to 1989. Right. Okay. Let us go back here. And let's talk about a young lady, first off.

Okay. Now, we're going to talk about Amanda, Teresa, Mandy. She goes by Mandy, because her name's Amanda. Stavik, S-T-A-V-I-K. Now, Mandy here, she's born April 16th, 1971 in Anchorage, Alaska. Is that right? The family's from Alaska.

Your father's Glenn, her mother's Mary, and they come from Alaska. You know what? I can't really pin that down exactly. That's interesting. The reason, or if they were just from Alaska, I'm not sure. Running from the law. That's running from something or, you know, went up there for the oil rush and never allowed. I'm not sure what happened.

She has two sisters, Mary Alice and Molly. Mary Alice is one person, and has two. two brothers, Brent and Lee. She's got a couple of step sisters, too. We'll talk about also. Now, in 1974, Mary and Glenn, her parents, are divorced. So she's about three years old when her parents split up here.

Now, August of 1975, when she's about four years old, the family has some serious tragedy here. She has a brother who is 16 years old at this point named Brent, okay? Brent was found on federal property in Alaska absolutely riddled with rifle bullets. I mean, they say some people said he was shot as money as 19 times. 16 years old. 17, 17 times. 17 years old.

17 shots 16 years old. Oh, yeah. It's a young man. Yeah, he was a kid out hunting. He was on federal property near the state of Alaska way station. on the Glenn Highway. And he'd been bow hunting, according to his friends.

And he was found riddled with rifle bullets and covered up with brush. So this is on purpose. Yeah. Nobody mistook him for a moose or anything. This is murder. They tried to cover it. Wow.

This is wounds to the head and chest, too. They wanted him dead. Whoever shot him. Oh, he did something that someone didn't like. The father here, Glenn, said as far as the circumstances, they never found any clues or any reason for the murder. He was just found shot.

It's still unsolved to this day. Wow. 51 years later, still unsolved. So if anybody knows who killed Brent in 1975 in the woods in Alaska. It'd be 67 years old today. Yeah, yeah. He was born in 59, this poor kid. So this is horrible.

He should have grandkids now. Yeah. Instead, he's been dead since before we were both born. Wow. It's fucking crazy. That's a lot, man. So then the fucked up thing is he was shot 17 times and they tried to solve it and tried to solve it, including they said that there was a prison escapee, Alan Wayne Hurley here. They said there's no solution in this.

They said the gunshot killing and the Alan Wayne Hurley prison escape, according to the FBI. They said, we're still conducting a lot of inquiries in the crime. crimes. First, they were wondering if the person who escaped from prison killed him. Right. But then they said they think they're separate and they're trying to find some guy who escaped and also this guy. So never solved. Nobody arrested at all. Now, she's got a step sister Mandy does named Bridget here. Now, Bridget said that her and Mandy were very close. They enjoyed, you know, riding horses, sledding and ice skiing and climbing hay bales. You know, that all backwoods he shit. Yeah. This is. is very Alaska sledding, ice skating, riding horses.

Yeah. Fails. Totally. And they were very close growing up, so she did stuff like that. Mandy will talk about she's a very good athlete. Excellent athlete. Yeah, really, really good. Like a four-sport athlete.

Oh. Excellent. In October 1983, that is when mom, her remaining brother, Lee, who was very young at this point, I believe, was six, seven, something like that. and one of her two sisters moved to Washington. Got it. They come down to the mainland here because Mom wanted a safe.

Alaska wasn't safe, she thought. You know how Alaska is. It's, you know, crazy. Well, my son was just murdered by 17 shots. It's dangerous here. That's why. But that was eight years earlier. Yeah.

So something was happened in the 80s. I don't know what it was, but she said, I need to go somewhere safe. I'm going to take my remaining alive children. and go somewhere safe here. So they pick Watcom County and they pick Acme, which is just a – Acme is barely a town. I mean, it's a speck of a town.

It's on Highway 9, which is about an hour – or half an hour east of Bellingham. It's the middle of nowhere. You know, they have a general store and that's it. So Mandy thrives in this environment. She graduates from Mount Baker High School in 1989. She was a starter for the girls' basketball team for three years, also played softball, ran track and cross-country, and was on the cheerleading squad for the football team too.

Wow. In other words, she left the house at 6 in the morning and came home at like 8.30 at night every day. I mean, that's so busy. Yeah. You have practice for something every day after school. And those are sports that go different seasons, So she's not doing all four of them at once.

No, no. She's probably doing two at a time. She's always busy. Yeah, always doing something. There's no time when none of those sports are going on. Softball, track, cross-country, football, or basketball. Yeah, that's year-round sports. It's year-round.

Yeah, that's busy. You're doing two at a time probably, right? It has to be. Well, in addition to that, she's also on the honor roll and played saxophone in the school band, too. And busy. She's like Lisa Simpson with athletic ability. Like she's got, that's, that's so much. There's no free time at all there.

Her lungs are very healthy. Oh, between the run and the sacks. Forget about it. Yeah, she will fucking pop a balloon and two below. Done. Boom. Hey, everybody just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get in better shape with ladder. L-A-D-D-E-R.fit.

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That's 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com slash STM. Now back to the show. 1988. Do not hand her the bomb. No, no, she will, it's gone. Gone.

What'd you do? You took it all? Lung capacity. Jesus Christ. It's like the cone heads. If you smoke at a joint, she just takes a hit and it's all gone. One thing.

Cone head. in a subway sandwich. Now, she has a 20-year-old brother here, a stepbrother, Spencer, who is the son of her dad's, it's her stepbrother. Her dad's new wife after her and her mom got divorced. So it's half. It's their son they just had. Yeah. Now, this son, I guess, he ends up dying in 1988 in a boating accident on the Canai River.

Oh, boy. So there's a lot of tragedy going on here. Okay. Yeah, kidding. Now, by 1989, Mandy graduates in June. Yeah. And then she's off to Central Washington University after that, which is about four hours away from here. So good distance away.

She, I guess at first, this is the interesting part. She wanted to be a commercial airline pilot at first. That was her, that was her first. That was her first goal. And then somehow over the summer switched her path and decided to go to college instead, I guess. So she wanted to pursue a career in fitness and nutritional counseling, which she's probably very fit. So that makes sense. She does a lot of exercise.

Feels like she's on the cutting edge of that, too. It feels like there's a lot of those now. But back then there weren't many. 89? Probably not. Now, the town they live in is actually Clipper. That is the official town. But it's like there's not really a town.

It's just a name of an area. Clippers just outside Acme and considered in that zip code area we talked about here. But Clippers, the actual, you know, town town, if you want to be specific, where their mailing address would be. She also has a long time, I don't know how long, but more than the last year, say, a longtime boyfriend as well. Name Rick Zender with a Z. Like Sender, but with a Z. Return to Zender. fucking Rick return to Zender, we call them around school.

I resent it. Now, she goes to college here in the fall. Thanksgiving comes around and she comes home for Thanksgiving. Yeah. Now, there's a confusion of where she got a ride from for a minute because on the school bulletin board is she put up a thing saying she's looking for a ride to the, you know, to just east of Bellingham, basically. Yeah. If you could do that. but we know that she ends up being driven home by her boyfriend.

So I think her boyfriend drove four hours to pick her up, picked her up and drove her home. God damn. Which is a goddamn long round trip. It's a sweet man. That's a nice guy right there. She doesn't come home alone, though. She brings her roommate with her who is a Japanese exchange student.

Yeah. Who speaks very little English. And the two of them are trying to learn each other's languages with neither. So, yeah, she's trying to learn Japanese and this Japanese girl's trying to learn English. And they're hanging out. That's not easy. No, that is, especially if neither of you speaks both, that's going to be tough. Now, her name, and I shit you not, is Yoko.

Swear to God, her name is Yoko, which is just hilarious. Because I'm sure everyone called her Yoko anyway. You know what I mean? Hey, Yoko. And she went, huh? They might know. I'm sorry. That's what's sad.

Just some, you know, some fucking meathead college kids were like, hey, Yoko! And she was like, yes? It's either Yoko or Kim. That's all they're calling her. One of the two, and that's Korean, for Christ's sake. Is it? There you go. There you go.

So, now, that's what it is. That's Wednesday, November 22nd. They get a ride home with Rick Zender and back to Acme. Okay. Now, Rick Zender drops Mandy and Yoko at Mandy's parents' house at Mary's house or mom's house at about 2 p.m. on Wednesday, November 22nd, which means he left the house at 6 a.m. to pick her up or earlier. Think about that because it probably took him a minute to get in the car. Maybe they stopped for a bite to eat. He probably left the house at 5 o'clock in the morning. Shit. What's four hours from you? Philly? From me? Yeah.

No, Philly's closer than that. You can drive to Philadelphia. Yeah, Philly's closer. And back. Yeah. Still beat that man. Still beat him. Fucking, that's crazy.

Yeah, four hours. I mean, Boston's three in change from my house. Like 3.20 or something from here. So, I mean, it's far. It's a trip. It's a goddamn trip. To go to, to have someone take me to Boston to do shows, I have to pay them a good amount. Yeah.

So bring me back and take me. So they show up. Later that afternoon on the 22nd, Mandy visits her former high school to see some friends and visit the basketball team, which she was big on. So she wanted to talk to her coach and the teammates who were there still, you know, from when she was playing and all that kind of thing. So she hangs out for the basketball's team practice. And don't know how long exactly she stays, but that evening. And also, too, that thanks the day before Thanksgiving in a small town is when people gather. Right.

That's like if you go even not even a small type, if you go like around me like the night before Thanksgiving, every bar is full to capacity with people who haven't seen each other in a long time. Wow. I was, I came back here after I was in Arizona for a few years. I came back when I was like 23 and my friends wanted to go to a bar. So we went to a bar. We were hanging out. And in came my father with a group of his friends into the same bar. that's how many people.

I was like, this is weird as fun. I don't see him in a while either. Yeah, I was like, well, I saw him at the house when I said,

I'm going to go to the bar for a while. And then he ended up with the same thing. So, I mean, it's so many people. I saw 100 people I hadn't seen in years.

Wow. Just because that's where people were hanging out. So she hangs out there. The next day, Thursday, November 23rd, 88, is Thanksgiving Day. Right.

So she does nothing. She spends the entire day at home with the family, eating food, kicking back, watching football, doing the normal. Thanksgiving shit. Then comes Friday, November 24th, 1989. Okay, day after Thanksgiving. She hangs out in the morning.

Toward lunchtime, they eat some leftovers. Some turkey sandwich and shit like that. She goes for a long walk with Yoko. She has a five-mile jogging route that she does when she's home, always. She was in high school. She did it all the time, does it every day. A five-mile path that is her thing. Yeah, but it's two and a half miles out, two and a half miles back, I guess. So she walked this path with Yoko. I guess Yoko's not a runner, apparently. Yeah. Yoko likes the cardio.

Yoko likes to get some cardio in, just not too intense. Yoko likes to keep it chill, if we know what it is. She's more of a slow burner. Yeah. She tears things apart real slow from the inside. She doesn't want to be too tired. She has a lot to do later. She's got to go inside, get nude, take weird pictures, and then screech into a fucking, into a microphone for a while.

slap trash camplets together while she yells. There is this chick I hung out with, and you have to be hot to pull this off, okay? There's this chick I hung out with in high school. I went over to her house one time, and she put an out, like a vinyl album on, which in the 90s was right away strange. And it was a Yoko Ono album of her making weird sounds. You've heard it? Is this a famous thing? It's so bad.

I just heard there was like screeching and shit that sounded like an animal. that was being like killed in my woods that I heard a while back. And I was like, and I said, what the fuck is? What is it? At first I didn't realize it was an album, like something she put on. I thought it was like a TV. I said, what is this? She goes, it's Yoko Ono.

And I was like, wow. And now looking back, I was like, she must have been hot because I didn't leave right then. I was like, I don't want to hear this. It's an avant-garde horseshit that she was foot on. It was weird. It was so wild. It was weird. But she made me listen to this whole goddamn.

It wasn't like the focal point. She wasn't like, now listen to this sound. right now focus but it was like we just like I was like this is crazy it was distracting to know what the conversations were but between her because John was a genius for all intents and purposes yeah and she is not no there is music out I don't know any Yoko Ono music really but there is music out that people enjoy from Yoko Ono is there I don't know what it is but I've seen her songs on lists of things that people enjoy Okay, I've never seen that.

I've heard the music and was like, what? All I've ever heard is the screeching. I would never give it another chance. Yeah, I've just heard the screeching and the dying squirrel sounds that she was making for a while. That's all I've heard. That's it. If she's got a yellow submarine somewhere, I'd love to hear it. Let's break it out, sister.

What do you got? Tell me about yesterday. I'd love to hear it. I'll give it a chance. I don't like the Beatles, but I'll give whatever you got a chance. How's your day's night been? Let me know about it. It's a long?

Long. So she makes plans that evening that her and Yoko are going to go out with a couple of high school friends of hers. Okay. So they're going to go out and hang out. Now, this is a guy named Brad Gorham and his friend named Tom Bass, B-A-S-S, which is strange. See, I don't know where her relationship with her boyfriend is at this moment because he drove her all the way here, dropped her off the day before. And she's not hanging out with him that. And it seems like this is when they'd be hanging out.

Why don't you call that out of here? Maybe he has a job. That or maybe they're broken up, but they're still friends. That's possible. Or they're, you know, taking a break or whatever it is. But she's going to hang out with these two guys. And I don't know if it's a double date or just hanging out with friends or whatever. But she's like, I got this Japanese chick.

You got to meet. Tell you what. Yeah. So. I'm bringing her two guys. So she's got her pick. She's got her pick. Who knows?

Tom Bass. Brad Goral. Now, sometime between 2 and 3 p.m., though, this is well before they're going to have their evening activities. Mandy decides to go for a run. She leaves. She's already walked five miles. Now she's going to go run five miles. She takes the family dog, a German shepherd named Kira with her.

So she leaves the house. She's got sweatpants. She's got some running shoes on. She has a walkman and a dog. Okay, so that's what she's doing. She, the mother said, Mary, her mother said she usually ran west from their house on Strand Road. They live on Strand Road.

Crossed Highway 9 and continued until she reached the south fork of the Nooksack River, which is just asking to be. For two immature guys and comedians, we could imagine growing up around there. Nooksack, not one person calls it to Noxack. No, every boy calls it the Nutsack River. Every single one. Everyone without a doubt. Every and every adult with a 12 year old.

Nobody calls at that. Nobody does. No. So, and then she would ran back the same route. So it's five miles round trip. So apparently her brother Lee, who was I believe 13 at this time, was playing with a friend at a neighboring house. and the friend's name is David Cracker. David Cracker?

C, and we'll go with Craker. There's no C in the middle there. C-R-A-K-E-R. We'll go with Craker. But Cracker would be much funnier. It's probably Cracker. We'll go with Cracker. So Lee and his friend David Cracker both saw Mandy running east on Strand Road

toward her home at about 3 o'clock. Okay. So that would be coming back. Lee, the brother, was visiting his neighbor at the time, and he said it looked like his sister was on her way back from the river. Right. That was around three. So that makes sense. They said, too, this is within minutes of the house, especially in her honor at a running pace.

She's real close to the house. She's almost set. Yeah. Now, a little later, an hour or so later, Lee comes home, the little brother, and Mandy and Kira, neither one are there. the dog or her sister or her yeah so he's like that's weird where's Mandy and Kear

I just saw him drive I saw her running by she should have been home a long time ago and Mary said that's weird yeah she's taking a long much longer than she usually takes to run and you saw her back then she should have been definitely home by now

so Mary starts calling neighbors and starts calling any of Mandy's friends that she has a phone number for saying hey have you seen Mandy did she because who knows she's running maybe one of her old friends pulled by, and she said, hey, we're going to go to Dairy Queen. You want to hop in?

And she said, sure. Let's go get a blizzard. Fucking hate. Yeah, let's go down to the general store and get whatever confection they whip up down there and figure it out. Whatever. So, you know, you start calling around. Now, Lee and Mary then go out to look for her on the road,

take the car and take it all around, and they can't find her. And this is not a big area. So there's not a real, whole lot of places to look in terms of driving around. So they return home and they sit there. And they're like, what the fuck? What happened? This is so weird. And then pretty soon after they get back, they hear scratching at the door.

Oh. And it's Kira. Kira came home. The dog's alone, though. Hmm. Dogs by itself. And they said when they let it in, the dog was cowering, had its tail tucked between its legs. Scared, yeah.

And had river silt covering part of her hind quarters. So she got in the water. She got somewhere around the water, yeah. and was scared, obviously. Now, Mary at this point was freaked out. Sure. Why is the dog here without the daughter? She said, I was panicked.

She was so consistent in what she always did. There was no reason for her not to come back. Like, this made no sense. It's not like her. Then, now they, some of the two guys she's supposed to hang out with tonight and her boyfriend, Zender, they hear such a small area, they've already heard about her disappearance by before 5.30.

Oh. So they've already heard about this and they come over to help look for, so this is Tom Bass, Ra, Gorham, and Zender. They all come over to help look for her as well. So they already have a search party going, which is good.

About 5.30 p.m., Mary calls the police and the Whatcom County search and rescue is sent. Okay? She calls the cops and says my daughter's been missing for maybe two hours. They send Alan Pratt a human tracker. Really?

Which is, that's pretty good service for your tax dollars. I got to say, hey, my daughter went for a run. She hasn't come back yet. No problem. We'll send out a human bloodhound. You got this. We got a human tracker. We got a human tracker.

We'll just send him. Not a deputy. Not somebody to take your statement. We'll send some. He samples dirt and knows his way. There's some guy who picks dirt up, throws it up into the air, sees how it falls and goes, she went that way. Yeah. Checks the consistency.

Of like a branch. Yeah. Gets it in his molars. It runs it in a little bit. Yep. That's great service. How do they have one of those in their budget? Most American cities don't have a human tracker.

I know people can't get their garbage picked up on time. These people, you call up, my daughter, she might have stopped with her friends, but or she could be missing. we'll send the tracker. Don't worry about it. They show up on Wednesday, but it's very inconsistent of what time. Oh, you never know. You never know. It will be before I want to wake up in the morning.

I'll tell you that fucking much. Probably. It will be before six. I'll tell you that much. Before my alarm goes off. I'll tell you, it's always before six. Just rob me then. Hey, why don't we send the mail around with the garbage guy?

Yeah. He can drive. Rather than him coming at 5.30 at night, he can come it's 545 in the morning and we'll get it all worked out. I'm on the end route of my FedEx and UPS and mail and the beginning route of the trash truck. Yeah. So if it says we'll arrive sometime today before 9 p.m. or whatever the fuck. I'm guaranteed to get it right around 7 p.m.

Right around when I sit down to eat, the doorbell rings. That's perfect. And they always want a signature. Always. Always. FedEx are the ones. always want a fucking signature. Like, will you just leave it here?

I got a doorbell. Yeah. I know whether or not you made it. Oh, my God. If we've got a ring doorbell, if you've got a camera of some sort, yeah. That should be enough to not require the signature anymore. They've got cameras on their fucking chest for Christ's saying.

Yeah, one nice thing. My FedEx guy in the beginning, I was like, just sign for everything. Sign for everything. I don't give a fuck. Just don't call me, basically. time you ring all the dogs bark and now it's a 20 minute fucking procedure now because you rang the car bell. Okay.

And I miss you twice and now I have to leave my house to go get this shit. That's nowhere near my house. Yeah, because you knocked. The dogs barked and I wasn't answering shit because I was trying to keep them quiet. So now this guy, uh, the human tracker's name is Alan Pratt and he finds a disturbed spot on the shoulder of the road. Uh, the corner, this is on the corner, close. to Mandy's house.

We're talking feet from her house. It's right there. A disturbed spot. There were several footfalls, possibly from two people, where it looked like someone had been walking or wrestling around or something, quote unquote. There was a scuffle. There's a scuffle here. Feet that isn't just step, step, step.

This is the side of the shoe. Yeah, some shuffle in, some weird off steps. This guy's a good human tracker, if that's. That's what he found. It's not bad. I don't think I'd find that. Hey, the dirt looks weird here. What?

There's no footprints that I can decipher here. We're going to keep moving. Keep going. Yeah, totally. The nearby grass also showed signs of disturbance. And there was river silt in a nearby ditch close to this area that's similar to that found on the dog. On the dog. So the dog was probably in this area, too.

What they don't find here is Mandy or anything. sign of her other than some silt and some disturbed dirt. So this now becomes no one knows where she is. Literally all of her friends are accounted for. They all say they haven't heard from her. This is now freaking everybody out. So what happens is one of those small town things, everybody looks for her. Yeah.

The whole town looks for her at the same time. With whole hands and walk. Everybody. Yeah. It's crazy. neighbors, they're walking, they're in trucks. They have volunteers. They said that one guy said he searched for days and was, and, you know, all around everywhere. And deputies and reinforcements from other counties came in. This is a big deal here. And so there's helicopters. There's horsemen

working the brush and riverbanks. I mean, this is, they are looking for this shit, man. Saturday, November 25th the next day, still haven't found her. Uh-oh. This is when deputies come from other counties to help as well. They run helicopters up and down the river corridor

here. They do all of that. They mount searches to push into the brushy areas too where vehicles can't go and stuff like that. It's huge, though. Everybody comes.

There's a, they talk. about all of these searches and they said that you know the one guy said he's been on all these searches and he never seen he's never seen people so enthusiastically searching basically um farmers would do their own walk their entire properties all their acreage and loggers would check on spur roads that were i mean everybody was involved in it um teenagers that knew her did grid patterns searching for her looking for on the roads and fields everywhere so i mean they are looking for her and not finding her is the problem

Sunday, November 26th, 1989, the search now expands from, because they thought she must have been pretty close to the house based on that disturbed dirt. Right, right. Every day they expand out a little more. Okay. And on Sunday, it expands down river and up into the timber. So up into more rugged areas into the woods and they find nothing up there. Nothing. Nothing.

Monday comes around, November 27. Now, this is crazy now. About noon here, this is a, now they've, by the way, from this time, they have organized $8,300 of a reward fund that they've patched together that they have here. And they're driving, driving, walking, flying, doing everything. There are searchers working the south fork of the Nooksack River by boat. Yeah. Okay. They come across what they believe is a body.

And it turns out it is. This is about three and a half miles from Mandy's house. I don't know if that's as the crow flies or whatever, but it's three and a half miles. Face down in shallow water. In the water. In the water face down. And remember, this is November in a Washington River. So it's cold.

That's cold water. You know, so there's a, yeah, preserves. Yeah, oh, yeah, preserves everything. There's a detective named Ron Peterson who this guy had just gone to get FBI training in DNA evidence recovery. DNA is brand-fucking new at this point. What year is this? 89. Yeah.

Brand new. Now, we'll talk about, like, how it came about. But 89 is when they're, like, even small town police forces know it exists now. You know, it was being used for a couple years, but like, you know, unless you were really into some shit, you wouldn't have known. about it. If you're just a small town police guy, you might not have heard about it. But he just came back from DNA evidence recovery courses. From training in this. So he's thinking about if there's, there might be DNA on this body and let's preserve it. Nobody touch it. Yes. So he personally manages the recovery because he doesn't want and to lose anything. He's really agonizing

on how to move her without disturbing any evidence. And, really, really, and really, you know, and really is extra caught in a way that in 1989 most people were not with bodies they were not even thinking about DNA just happened to be he just got back from a course on it otherwise they had just pulled her out of the water throwing her in a bag figured it out from there um so she is face down and naked except for no clothing except for socks and her running shoes that's all she's wearing okay and it's a slow-moving shallow area of the nooksack river here socks and shoes only

huh socks and shoes only naked otherwise which is interesting now there's no evidence of a struggle at the site but they don't know if this is where she was placed or she ended up going with the river and ended up here so they don't know they suspect that the body may have floated downstream

They find about 10 miles south of the home of where she lives. They found a pair of sweatpants that may have belonged to her. Sure. They were tested at the crime laboratory, and they said that they weren't really able to find anything out about it here. There's another pair of sweatpants were covered near an unpaved road where garbage is sometimes dumped, and that was all inconclusive as well. All right. The pair that was found in the garbage dump were the same color sweatpants that she wore. I think it was like a teal blue, which is pretty specific.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But they said the bloodhounds failed to identify the garment as hers, which it's been outside. That makes sense. But her mother also couldn't be certain if those were Mandy's. So we're not sure if those were hers or not. But it seems like a pretty big coincidence that's probably hers. Yeah.

And bloodhounds are, they're not known for being. That particular, are there? No, no. And also, too, after a couple days outside, scents go, you don't know if there's any scent there. Who knows? And if they were in the river first, too, that would have helped knock some of the scent off. So, who knows? But that's a big deal, though.

They also found two pillowcases in that area where they found the sweatpants. Yeah. These pillowcases contain two types of hair. On one of the cases, a long blonde strand was found, similar to Mandy's. She's very blonde. And all of that. Now, an expert human trafficker brought in again.

Tracker. Tracker. Not expert human trafficker. He'll bring anything in from Central America that you could possibly want. He's got it. Who do you want? He's got it. He's got it.

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There's a menu. You want little boys? Eight, seven? What are you looking at? Third grade, fourth grade? So he is brought in, and tire tracks are found near the pillow cases. but no treads are visible so they can't get a read on what kind of tire or car this may have been from. What would the significance of a pillowcase be?

Oh, I guess you could put it over someone's head and kidnapping? Yes, you could do that or whatever it is. They found a long blonde strand of hair that is consistent, so they wanted to at least see if it maybe is part of the whole thing. Because we don't know what people's weird, how they murder people, you know? I suppose you could strangle somebody with one of those too, right? You could twist it up, stranglingle. That's probably all purpose there.

So you put it over their head and beat them. You can do all sorts of weird shit. Put some soap in it and beat them to death with it. That too. Yeah, you could act like they pissed you off in basic training. So the FBI was helping the investigation and the officials planned to enlist the Green River Task Force in this. That is the Seattle-based team of detectives that are, that we're working on the Green River killer. Gary Ridger.

They didn't even know that it's Gary Ridgeway. No, the task was formed to pursue, you know, Ridgeway. But there was no indication that this killing had any connection to any of the unsolved killings in the Seattle area. Because that's what they originally thought. We'll bring that in, see if it's connected to your guy. Yeah. It's a girl in a river. In a rural area.

All bets are off at this point. Gary Ridgeway held, hid several women in rivers. Yeah. So, I mean, that happened a lot. She doesn't even know how many. That's insane. That's wild. He didn't even fucking keep a tally.

Even in his head. That's crazy. They disintegrated from his memory because there was so many. Like you know how many people you've had sex with. Yeah. Which is a way less smaller number than hundreds. And less significant activity than murdering someone. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That's way less significant than murder. Fucking you is way less than killing you. It just is. And voluntarily, whatever the fuck you, what to call it. But this is, you know, to not remember the murders, that is insane. You did a lot. And he had sex with all of them, too. Oh, yeah. He raped everything. It's such a significant moment of my penises out that. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm never forgetting that. No. No. He's, he did,

he's gross. He can't remember. And his dick was out. It's unbelievable. We don't know if, we don't know if he can't remember or doesn't. Choo's not to say because there's shame. Yeah. Yeah, that's all. Now, we said she was naked except for running shoes. Her body was covered in scratches. Real superficial scratches. Bushes or a weapon? And legs, buttocks arm.

That's where it was. It was real superficial, like running, running, tree branches, that sort of thing. There were more scratches on the front sides of her legs than on the back sides of them also, which would be, yeah, stick comes off. You get a little bit of the back just as it. carries around the curvier leg, but not there.

Many of the scratches were parallel indicating she was in motion when she was scratched as well. And overall, condition of the scratches suggested they occurred while she was still alive because they bled a little bit. Now, the medical examiner figured out that these scratches were consistent with someone running through the brush, such as especially blackberry bushes, which are found along the riverbank of the Nooksack River. And also someone who doesn't have their sweatpants on. Right. So what does this tell you? Something happened.

They got away, broke free, and hauled ass to get away from it. Yeah. And didn't get away from it. And then got caught. Got caught. And this is someone who runs track, cross-country basketball. She's fucking, she's an athlete. I mean, so it's got to be someone, it's not somebody who's 65 years old.

No. You can rule that out. It's not someone who weighs 400 pounds. You can rule that out. There's a lot of people you can rule out just in the fact that. that they were able to run this girl down. Catch an athlete. Yeah.

So any evidence nearby at all? Well, they found, like we said, they found, oh, of the homestead. That's right. There's this place called the homestead, which is nearby here. And it's just a field where the teenagers hang out and drink wine coolers and finger each other. That's all it is. So, yeah. Just Bartles and James bottles everywhere, you know.

In 89, Fox. 89, that's all it was there. Yeah, this is pre-Zema. Would Jack Daniels things available yet? No. I don't think so. Maybe. Maybe.

I'm not sure, but I just, wine coolers were a big deal back then. Fucking A. Especially for the kids. They don't think Zima was even out yet. I bet you're right. In 89? Zima was more like 93, like, hey, this is the 90s. That far?

Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think that's when I remember seeing it. And I worked at a beer store then, so I remember when it was a big deal. Time escapes. Who knows? I want to say 93, but it could be 84. for all I know.

I just remember those Jack Daniels things because wine coolers were such a hit. Everybody started making something mixed in a bottle with that Tennessee honey or some shit like that. Something sweet that the young girls will drink. Yeah. Some berry shit that...

It's going to get some fucking teenager laid. Investigators in this homestead area found footfalls and tire tracks in the field. But they're unable to determine if they're related to the crime because there's always teenagers there hanging out. So it might just be people, kids hanging out. They found no other tracks or signs of disturbance near the riverbank where they found the body.

So they're relatively sure that's not exactly where she went into the water, basically. Right. Probably somewhere else. So they find never where an actual definitive crime scene is. They do not have that. We don't know what happened. We think she was abducted here because she was seen running home and this is near her house. This is where her body was.

And that's pretty much all they have. That's all we know. They don't know what in between happened, which is a lot. So they do the autopsy. This is a weird comment that this guy makes. Who? Dr. Goldfogle. That's the coroner?

That's the, yeah, a guy doing the autopsy, medical examiner. He said, quote, she has the least amount of deterioration that I see in essentially anybody. She has so little that it was very traumatic in particular for one of the doctors at the autopsy because we'd look at Mandy and say, you know, if we could shake her and warm her up, it looks like she'd just wake up because she was face down in ice cold fucking water. So she's perfect. She's preserved. So it looks like a just a like a. Take a nap. Just a frozen in time.

Yeah. Perfectly preserved teenage girls. She said she doesn't even look dead. She's been so preserved. and in the ice. So it's like it looks like you could just wake her up. Mandy, and she'd pop up.

It's almost bad, right? He said it was disturbing, actually. It was just, you'd rather see at least they're dead. They're dead. But this looked like a live girl who just was like, why aren't you waking up? Like it was creepy. Real creepy. No.

Now, the autopsy indicates no defensive injuries to her hands, which is a big deal. No foreign DNA under her fingernail. So she did not fight at all. Huh. or if she did, maybe she scratched and that got taken away in the river water, but I doubt it because we find other stuff here. No evidence of strangulation or evidence suggesting she'd been bound in any way. So she wasn't tied up. So she probably, in my estimation, that would be somebody, well, either that or somebody talked her into everything is fine, everything is fine.

You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, no, no, no. If you were cool, I'm not going to hurt you and she was trying to play along. That means there's either that or one of the two. Or there's imminent danger of there's a weapon trained on her. Exactly. Yeah, that too. You have to be.

Convinced her. Yeah. To not fight in some way, shape, or form. No evidence of strangulation or, like I said, or evidence of binding. there was blunt force trauma injury, though, to her right forehead. And this is what we're thinking, maybe it was a surprise attack hitting the forehead, and that's why she didn't fight back. They said the blow to her head would have caused a significant concussion, but he can't say definitively whether she would have lost consciousness or not. Because that's, you know, kind of a roll of a dice there.

front of the forehead, you don't necessarily go out. It's usually bottom of the face and the back of the head. Those are the two that really lock you out. Well, we don't know. We have no idea. A significant concussion, who knows. He opined that the injury happened immediately before or after her death because he said, quote, by the time her heart stops and the blood pools, these things don't occur, meaning bruising or any of that.

How did she die? Well, he concludes that the cause of death is consistent with, can't be positive, but consistent with or not inconsistent with is the way he puts it. Freshwater drowning. So maybe she's hit and she's unconscious and falls in the water and then breathes water in. I forget the word for that. Asperate. Asperates water. Or is that out?

As inspirate. Is that out? That might be out. I'm not sure. Is that inspirate? I'm inspirating right now. No, there's aspirate and there's another one. But I don't know which one's in or out.

It doesn't fucking matter. But the point is she breathed water in, possibly while unconscious. Yeah, fresh water, not inconsistent of drowning. No, now, but it gets more, it gets worse as we go. Okay. Based on her stomach contents, they determined that she died within three to four hours of her last meal. which would put it at about four and four o'clock, four and change, because they ate at around noonish, 1130.

Right. So three-ish, four-ish, that's around when her, that would have been. They said that she ate between 1130 and 1230 a.m. So all that. So we don't think that she was kept somewhere for a day first and then did this. So this suggested that she died between 3.30 and 4.30 p.m. on Friday afternoon. And during the autopsy, they find semen inside of her. Okay.

And then if that's the motivation here, that's, yeah, you go, why would somebody do this? This is why, because they wanted to rape this poor girl. Based on the sperm count, they concluded that the intercourse had occurred no more than 12 hours before the death. So 12 hours or sooner. Based on how, because they die off, right. Could happen. Could have been 10 minutes, but no. longer than 12 hours before her death. So this evidence leads the police to believe that someone

kidnapped and raped her. That's what happened here. And bashed her over the head, raped her, whatever. And the bash over the head might have been because she ran away. We don't know. We're not positive. And she was obviously fleeing her capture at some point. So the doctor preserves the samples he collects, which was important to do because not everybody did that in 1989. and sent them to the FBI and the Washington State Patrol Crime Lab for analysis. Yeah. So the crime lab develops a little bit later a DNA profile from the sperm. Wow.

There's no, at this point in time, there's no codis or there's no, like, there's no database to put the sperm, to put the DNA into. There's nothing to compare it against. Yeah. But if you have somebody, you can compare their DNA. If I say, I think Jimmy did it and I swab you and then I can compare them side to side, but that's it. I can't like put it into a system and hope it gets a hit. So that's what they do. Now the area here, Strand Road runs off Highway 9 near Acme and dead ends.

Strand Road is where they live, where she lives and her and her mom and her sisters and brother, dead ending toward the south fork of the Nooksack River. So there's a big dead end. There's one way out of this of Strand Road. You drive down, there's no, it's a dead end. So you got to go this way. which matters because traffic on Strand Road is nobody driving. The only people that drive down this fucking road are people who live there.

It's a dead end in the middle of nowhere. And the good news about that is very lost. If you go down it, people have a chance to see you twice. I mean, that's bad news for somebody that's, but goodness for those trying to solve it. Exactly. So nobody passes through here, basically. This is not an accident. So if you're on there, you live there, you're visiting someone.

Strangers cars get noticed. Whose car is that? People will say when they look out the window. That's, yeah. Who's this Joker? People say that all day long. Yeah, who's this Joker out there driving down my street? So this is what they think happened, okay?

This is built from the evidence, from the disturbed roadside autopsy, the geography, and this detective who walked the route a whole shitload. He kept walking this route to figure out what could happen. Okay. So basically, he talks about. going down the road and Mandy leaves the house early to mid-afternoon, dog alongside her, runs her standard loop toward the river. The final sightings of her, because there's not her brother and a couple other neighbors, cluster around 3 p.m. close to home.

One of the witnesses saw a man in a pickup truck, as we'll talk about people who were seen around here, near the bend who watched her run past heading in the direction of her house, roughly an eighth of a mile away from her house. You know how fucking close that is? That's so close. You can see your fucking house. She was probably... And eighth of a mile is 500 feet, 600 feet.

Yelling for your mother. That's how close. Like, if you were being kidnapped. Mom, come out of the house. I'm being kidnapped. It's that close. You can hear from there, for sure. You're absolutely, your guard is 100% down by the time you get to that point.

So down. Yeah. So down. And I don't know how much her guard would have been up anyway, running in this rural area. She's done a million times. So that's what she said. So now the detectives point out that there's a wooded stretch ahead, and he believes that's where she was taken in the wooden stretch close by.

So they said that they don't think that whoever got her chased her down on foot. They had to have talked her over or had a vehicle. They don't think anybody got out and started chasing her because she probably would have outran them. Also, she has a dog. A German shepherd, for Christ's sake. Yeah. There's only a few dogs that on site scare the living shit out of you.

That's what I mean. I don't understand. That's what makes me think it's got to be somebody that is familiar with this dog. Is it familiar with her and that dog? Because otherwise, yeah, a dog like that, you go, I don't know what thing's going to bite me? You know, it's just obviously. And also what's the dog not biting this person for? Right.

That's the other thing. I mean, Jesus Christ. My dogs are very sweet, but they will bite you. the shit out of you if you're aggressive. When Sarah, she'll like, tickle me sometimes, joking around and I'll be like, oh, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. Frankie will run over. Yeah. And, like, push her off and, like, get away from him.

And I'm like, you know, and if you were a stranger, she'd probably bite you, but it's Sarah. So she's just like, come on, let's be nice to him. And I'm, like, laughing, trying to tell her to go away, and she's tickling it. It's a mess. Vaughn bites my legs whenever I raise my voice to my children. And if they talk back to me and I threw my teeth, say, don't you fucking dare?

My dog loses his shit and tells me, don't you fucking dare. Don't like that. I don't like that at all. So they said a vehicle and or control gain by a weapon. So they think maybe a gun pointed at her. That'll do it. Yeah. Would talk her into something and get in my car type of thing.

Hop in. Also, they say that it's, that would be fast and quiet. Point a gun in her. She gets in the thing. It's compliant. You know, whatever. they said that could have taken 15 minutes to 15 seconds basically and uh they believe that the they think that they probably he probably kicked the dog or did something to the dog to send

it into the ditch to get the silt on him and that would and he was scared explain the leg yeah tell between the leg uh legs and so they think this could have been less than a minute the whole process yeah of taking her then they'd have to drive her somewhere um near the river they think. That's where also they think there's got to be local knowledge here, possibly, to know where to go around here, knowing where to take her,

you know, because this is a stressful situation. You've got a teenage girl in your car that you've kidnapped and you're going to rape and kill. It's a lot going on there. So you've got to kind of know what you're doing and where you're going here. So they said then,

at some point, she got away. That's the thing. Scratches on her arms and legs are consistent with, printing through the brush, Blackberry thickets, big thorns that all line the riverbank. So it must have been her getting away from the riverbank. When they saw that, one of the investigators said,

he just said, oh, my God, she was running away. She got away at one point. Somewhere in those minutes where she obviously has no clothes on when she's running away, she's running, and she was one of the fastest kids on the track team, too. She ran and they said, where was she running toward? because it's kind of the middle of nowhere. So they were trying to figure out which direction she might have ran from the river.

But they believed that either way, she got chased down and caught her and struck her on the head probably then. Because if she got struck on the head, she wouldn't have probably been able to run away. Right. So they're thinking that that has to be what happened is he chased her down.

Now, in the woods, that could also be, she might have tripped over a stick. You don't have to be faster than someone in the woods. to catch them. If you've ever seen any chase and any movie through the woods, they always trip on a stick or a brock

and they fall down and then the murderer catches them. That's the thing about the woods. It's very uneven ground. Yeah. Watch Evil Dead too. It's just all dead. You go through the woods.

Yeah. Just constantly falling. You hit your head. You almost drown in a puddle. That's what goes on. Everyone knows that. Yeah. So they think possibly

she fell down, hit her head on her own. No. No. They don't think that. They think she probably was hit. Either was chased down

or fell down, and then the person was probably pissed off at her for running away, whacked her in the fucking head, dragged her back to wherever they were going, wherever they were. So then at the river, they think that she's nearly unconscious. She's placed in the river to make sure she drowns. And, you know, head trauma. By the way, she's a strong swimmer, too. So if she was conscious, she would have swam.

It says it. There's an abduction, an assault, an escape, a capture, and a drowning. They said, it's got to be what it is. So it seems pretty. And then you think back to the type, how would you get a, you know, the event, like, obviously you don't want to think about it unfolding. But how it would unfold would be likely the horrible event occurring, obviously. And then in the midst of whatever he was doing, putting a pants back on or a belt or whatever. Yes.

It could be a pickup truck. It could have been on the ground. But it's definitely not somewhere that's closed. You know what I mean closed off? This was in a vehicle or out in the woods? It has to be. And also, she could have thought, too, because you never know what people are thinking.

She could have thought as the situation was going, I can get out of this and I can talk my way out of this. And once he started taking her clothes off, she might have said, oh, this is beyond my control. Now I got to run. You know what I mean? Now I got to run. And if he shoots me in the back as I'm running,

let him fucking shoot me in the back as I'm running. Good luck. It's hard to shoot a moving target. It's running away from you. Do they think the assault occurred before or after she ran? They're not. They can't tell. There's no way to tell that, unfortunately.

Those are all just theories, basically. So they're hoping for, they have no ideas at this point. Detective said their best leads may come from passers by who may have noticed something suspicious along the highway. You know, so it's, they said the road has about four times the traffic is normal because of a washed out bridge. and the opening of ski season at Mount Baker. They said, we're hoping somebody saw something and will give us a call. They also pulled the parole records of several sexual predators

or other sexually related criminals who are known to be in the area. Talk to them first. I mean, you got a rape going on. Talk to a rapist. You know what I mean? So they're looking for a couple different trucks. The problem here is everybody here is a pickup truck. You're in the middle of nowhere in a place that snows a lot.

So it's difficult. They were seeking a dark colored pickup truck. Who knows how many of those there are? They never found the one they were looking for. And they also said they were looking for a second vehicle and an individual. They said they were looking for a late 1970s full-size station wagon, light brown in color, possibly a Chrysler or a Chevy, that was seen being driven by a man 30 to 35 years old with a pudgy face, heavy billed, dark hair, large mustache,

and three-day growth of beard around the same time the woman vanished. Oh, the poor bastard. So he's like a carnival strong man driving a family truckster, basically, is what you're looking for. Poor bastard. What a weird fucking thing there. Yeah. He had a rodee in his lap for sure. That man drinks heavy.

A lot. Yeah. So as the word spread here of this murder, people fucking freak out. I mean, freak out. That's a nightmare. This is a big deal. Residents gathered at the supermarket to talk about it. Eish.

Literally just everywhere. They said one lady here, a lady, she's a young lady, young girl, 17 years old, said, I didn't think that kind of thing happened around here. Baby. Well, I mean, you better. Think again. Another, the woman who works at Acme Foods at the grocery store said, you think of those things happening in Seattle, but not here. Oh.

That's right. Crime-ridden Seattle? That crime-ridden Seattle. Well, I mean, after Ted Bundy and, you know, Green River. Green River was going on right then, too. Yeah, this is the type of thing that happened in Seattle. A lot of bad shit happened in Seattle. One of her friends named Michelle, who lived a few doors down in the dorm from her, said I was just watching the news.

and couldn't believe it was anyone so close. It just gives you a feeling like, gosh, we're seeing each other in the bathroom. One day you see them, one day you don't. Okay. That's where I'll find all my friends in the bathroom. That's a gal. That's a gal, yeah.

You know, that's a chick. We don't have conversations in that. I mean, I see the guy in the can all the time. It's weird, right? No, we don't talk in the, but women hang out and talk about shit in the bathroom. It's completely against male etiquette to even make eye contact. in a bathroom. Never mind fucking speak to a person.

I'm the most vulnerable. This thing is out. The only eye contact you make is if they have one of those towel cologne guys. You give him eye contact and that's about it. How you doing? You rub your pockets and go, eh, I don't have anything. I'm sorry. And then you leave. Because I'm not taking your two squirts of cologne anyway. Leave me alone. I'm not giving you $5 for handing me a napkin. I'm leaving. No, I'm going now. So at her college, year. This is at Central Washington University. They found the note on the bulletin board with her seeking a ride to the Bellingham area for Thanksgiving. So it's from Mandy. So that's what they find. The basketball team at her high school ends up playing in honor of her, basically. This is the day she's found they have a game. And so they were going to cancel the game because she was just there the night before. And, you know, a couple days before. It's a little freaky.

but instead they go out and beat some other school. Hell yeah. Take that. It was the season opener, too. Oh, one. Yeah. The coach said, I'm pretty proud of the way we handled it, the way they take care of each other and the way they care for Mandy.

It was a pretty emotional day for everybody. And one of the parents said, for the kids, we felt maybe it was better if they went ahead and did something. I think the kids handled it well. Better for them to just do that than to just sit around, basically, which I agree with that. Mandy's living now. Thanks, guys.

Yeah, well, that worked. Hey, you did it. The coach said, if the kids had left it up to me, I don't think I would have played, but I let it left it up to them, and they all wanted to play. I think it turned out to be the best thing we could do. Now, reactions also, Mandy's mom says,

all these terrible things, all you can think is it doesn't happen to you. It doesn't happen on Strand Road, and it did. That's why she moved here, because she said, this looks like the safest place in the world. Great. Perfect. She said, people here aren't even careful about locking their doors.

They don't care. There's a memorial funeral set for her as well. Big deal. They're going to have a eulogy by her basketball coach, Jim Freeman. A performance of Mandy's song written, especially for the service by two students. Okay. They wrote a song called Mandy's song. Interesting.

and yeah That's touching it It's very sweet It was a fucking horrible song and we all know Barry Manilov song that we already have You already have a Mandy song That's what I mean There's so many songs called Mandy

Yeah or yeah Yeah you could just replace it for Brandy And do Mandy Such a fun You could do that you could do There's so much to do with Mandy Really it's touching and it's sweet But I'm sure it was a very bad song

Yeah I'm sure the song was terrible written by two teenagers on the fly under pressure to be performed publicly. Couldn't have been good. With grief in their heart? It's awful. I promise. Yeah, you could have told the Rolling Stones, write a song now that needs to be ready in two days. It'd be shit.

What the fuck are you talking about it? It would be shit. What do you think two teenagers are going to do? But nice of them to try. The church is accepting donations to a Mandy Stavik personal expenses fund to help disfrey the cost of the funeral. Another is the Mandy Stavik reward fund, which is up to 13. $16,643 now. That's great.

You could make donations all over. Last week, it took them fucking six years to get to $13. They could remember that? They couldn't do it. They couldn't fucking do it. December 3,89, is the funeral. More than nine, or the memorial service, more than 900 people attend the memorial at Mount Baker High.

Wow. There's 220 people in this town. Yeah, this town grew by four times. 900 people show up. So, I mean, that's a lot. Think about college, friends. friends came. You know, that's a lot. December 6th, they bury her ashes at the St. Joseph Mission Cemetery. That's very sad. Yeah, they said at the funeral, at the burial, it was a lot more low-key. Two dozen friends and family members had a small green plot. And they grave was dug and covered with evergreen bows by Leo Sintowitz, a nearby neighbor who had become an adopted grandma since, Andy had moved, a grandpa, since Mandy had moved here from Alaska.

So he grew evergreen bows and boughs and put them there. I guess that's trees, yes? Or what's the boughs like branches? I guess. I don't know. I guess. Who knows? It's decorative.

It's decorative. And it looks very nice. And it's also very northwestern, too, to have tree stuff on there. Now, they also talk about this county has had a troubled disappearance record lately. Uh-oh. They said this is not the only instance of citizens vanishing in the area. Here are some mysterious disappearances from the last couple years. One was July 26, 89, of Diane Leslie Reeves, 23, who left her home in Ferndale, headed towards Seattle. Her car in 83 Subaru was found in September in what authorities described as a wilderness area on a Forest Service Road 14 miles east of Granite Falls in St.

Hamish County. Two months later. Two months later. Some of this woman's personal belongings were found at the base of a tree nearby, but they never found any other trace of her despite repeated air and ground searches. I didn't look it up, but I don't know if they ever did find her. Not sure. They didn't find her as of six months after she disappeared.

Yeah. Disappearance and murders in November 87 of a Canadian couple, Jay Cook and his girlfriend, Tanya Van. Wow, Kuylenborg. The pair were on a business trip from Victoria, British Columbia, to Seattle when they disappeared, along with Cook's 77 Ford Van,

which also disappeared. Van Kuylenberg's partially clothed body was found in a ditch near Alger. She'd been shot in the head, and Cook was found strangled the following month near Monroe. His van and some of her belongings and identification were later found in Bellingham.

They never caught who did that. at the time. Also, the partially clad body of Bellingham resident Rita P. Desanj 40, she was 40, of Bellingham, was found in August of 87, floating in some water on the Loomie Reservation, or Lummi Reservation. She had attended a large beach party across from Portage Island. No one's ever charged in that. then also 1987 a Bellingham resident who was last seen on a date with convicted killer Darren Lee, Darren D. O'Neill. O'Neill was a drifter with a lengthy criminal record who was convicted in April of 89 of stealing this missing woman's car, which was later found a week later in Eugene with his fingerprints inside. He was sentenced to five months in jail for the theft.

He was also convicted in January of the slaying of Robin Smith, who was 21 years old of Des Moines, Iowa, and was serving 27 years, nine months in prison for the murder. I feel like he probably killed the girl for the car, right? Seems like it. Police say O'Neill is a suspect in the disappearance and presumed death. Well, if he took her car, he probably killed her if he's a murderer also. And she went on a date with the guy? Yeah. Now, this is all, these are all not in Acme, though.

Right. These are like in the county. Surrounding area. But not in your small town. So it's different. Now, the investigation first ends up under Sheriff Don Mount. That's the first guy. Hundreds of tips came in.

Sure. Hundreds of tips. The problem is in 1989, like I said, they don't have a database to enter DNA into. So you'd have to get everybody in there. there, get their code, get their thing, compare it next to each other and see if it works. You got to match what you got. Which is tough.

That makes it a lot harder. Yeah. It's nice because it tells you whether you're right or not. But you can't just throw it into Ancestry.com and say, well, there we go. And then go pick the guy up at his house. Let this show me who did this. Yeah, that's all. I'll go pick him up tomorrow.

I'm sure he's at his house. It's like, that's crazy. So the theories here, the one everybody really wants to believe, is it was a drifter. That's what they all want to believe. Some drifters coming through. Yes, because that means drifters drift, and that means he's gone now.

The drifter means he stopped by, killed somebody, then probably got as far the fuck away from here as possible because he just killed somebody. That's what drifters do. So your drifter is the best case scenario because it's a thing that you can control.

It's not there. If it's a local, now you're living amongst a murderer. That's the thing that they don't want. Now it's a horror movie. Yeah. Now it's a horror movie. So that's what's crazy.

But the drifter means fucking anywhere, any place is in so much trouble. That's stranger danger. You expect that, though. That's normal danger, you know, the drifter. They said that they think someone moved on. Basically, the way the one guy put it, the detective, a stranger passes through, does the unthinkable and moves on and the valley remains innocent because nobody here did it. It's just some outside person came in and killed someone.

It's a horrible tragedy. But the other one is the neighbor. That's a guy who you've got to worry about every day now. The other one, so it's a different thing. Maybe the police chief. Exactly. In our stories, who the fuck knows? So they said now people, they ran out of dead bolts at the general store.

And dead bolts are the least to your worries. I mean, granted, that's a good way to deter somebody for coming through the front door. Makes you feel a little better. A little better. But that guy that just did that, he'll come through your fucking window. Well, you got to come out sometime. He didn't get you in your house. He waited until someone came outside and got him until your dead ball wouldn't help.

People stopped leaving their keys in their cars. People used to leave their keys in the ignition in the driveway here. Oh, that is so great. Imagine that. Parents are now watching their kids outdoors. It's a pretty rural area. The kids go run around and play. Not anymore.

Now they're all watching them. And everybody started looking at everybody else, wondering if they're a murderer. Right. It like insidiously like ate this town alive. Like it's like one of those murder mystery stories where everyone's in the house and they're like, well, maybe he did it. Well, you have the motivation and they all go back and forth with each other. All knives out. Thank you.

Exactly. All knives out. Exactly. So the thing that they figured out fast is this is, it seems local. It's a dead end road. Victim on a predictable schedule. A semi-hidden stretch of the river. strangers don't even know Strand Road is there.

Right. You want it to be the drifter, but none of the facts point that way at all. No, they don't. And so there's so much fear going on. They are actually, here's a headline in the newspaper, group walks against fear in memory of Mandy Stavik. They have big walks against fear because people don't want to go outside. They're so terrified. They said the friends, family, and neighbors who gathered Saturday at the home of Mandy Stavik had one purpose in mind,

standing together against the fear that has settled in this quiet stretch of rural Whatcom County. Almost 40 people came together on the calm winter afternoon to hold hands, talk and walk the stretch of Strand Road where Mandy was last seen. Oh, man, that is brutal. One of them said, my belief is love is stronger than fear and that we have a choice not to live our lives in fear. Okay. Well, yeah, sure. Why not? Don't live your lives in fear then.

There's shirts at the mall that you can buy that say it right on it. No, that's right. Well, in 1996, you could have bought those shirts. Maybe in 89. In 89, right? Maybe they could be in 89. I was just thinking now. I don't know if they exist now.

Sure they do. There seems like a group of douchebags where I could definitely see wearing no fear shirts. I forget what company bought No Fear. It's selling again. I bet. It is the, whoever bought it is the least creative people on the planet. They didn't even come up with a dumb thing. slogan. I'll buy a

defunct slogan from someone. The new shirts are fucking bad. The old shirts are bad. I don't know how the new ones could be better. Remember they had eyes and shit though? I think they've got the eyes on them now but like the little sayings on them are it's stupid.

It looks like shit. I am proud to say I've never owned a no fear shirt. Not once. Never. Never fucking own one. Saw that right away. I was like that's for douchebags, okay? I loved Stozy and Mossimo. Mossimo was my favorite one.

Yeah, when I lived in Arizona had, that was cool. In New York, you couldn't wear Stozy. They'd be like, what the fuck are you wearing? What are you was surfing? Really? Yeah. Then they were like, what the fuck is wrong with you? That's what kids would have said.

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amosomuos shit from Arizona. I had a mazamo that was fucking rad. It had like a, like a, like a chair of baby with like angel wings and shit. It's a cool little shirt. I love it.

A flying baby. And I wore it until the motherfucker ripped. That one in Rusty was a big brand too. Anyway, but no fear was fucking bad. And it's worse now. It's, oh, that's terrible.

It's worse now because we should know better. We should absolutely. know better. One of the people walk and said, when I heard about Mandy, I wanted to do something other than be afraid. So this is not helping anything, but it's making them feel like they're not afraid.

So people have to do that for their mental health here. And she said, got her friends and family to, you know, help walk the route and says the walk was the end result of this goal, proof that I don't have to live my life in fear. Well, yeah, if there's 40 people around, no. But if you go out by yourself, maybe.

All right. Now, suspects. Here we go. Now, DNA was invented by a British geneticist in 1984. The first ever criminal case solved was in England in 87. Is that right? Absolutely. You would think that we would lead the way in murder finding because that's kind of what we do here. But no. The first conviction using DNA in the U.S. was also in 87 later in the year. Codis wasn't in full operation until the late 90s. If you don't know, CODIS is the system where you can enter DNA in and see if any hits or in a database. It's an actor. Yes. When Mandy was killed, though,

forensic DNA was barely a concept. And definitely not used in courtrooms very often because you'd have to explain it to jurors. Oh, God. Imagine that. In the OJ case, they had to explain it to everybody. And the DA was telling Marsha Clark, Nobody knows what DNA is. They're like, she thought she had a home run with the DNA and they're like, that jury doesn't know what the fuck that is.

They can tell what a glove doesn't fit, but they don't know what the fuck DNA is. So you better tighten your shit up, basically. And you tell them that everybody's unique inside. None of them are going to understand why. Then why do I look like that guy? Genetic fingerprints are a good way to put it. But still, they're not getting the exact thing here. You can see a fingerprint.

That's the difference. You can't see DNA. So most crime labs couldn't run DNA samples at all or do anything. You know, and the technology at the time meant you needed a lot of product to test. You needed a lot of tissue or fluid or if you had a hair, it had to have the root attached to it or else it wouldn't work. It was one of those things. So for them, this Ron Peterson, the guy who was trained by the FBI, pulling a body from a river when most people would have just pulled it out and not cared about any forensic evidence.

This guy was way ahead of his time. And that was money well spent by the county to send him to get FBI training. So the guys they have are David Suchi is one guy, S-U-C-H-Y. He's a drifter. Yeah. Just what they're looking for.

Great. Let's find out what he has to say. Yep. He's a transient scene in the area on that day, Friday, when she disappeared and observed along standard road, which is nearby. he was the obvious, he's the one everyone wanted to be guilty, basically, because that's what you expect. That's what you hope.

That's what you got him and everybody's, we can go back to living. It's a guy that people walk to the other side of the street from. So that's the guy you want to be the murderer, not some guy who's, you know, your pastor or your kid's coach or your whatever the fuck. So. Aspen Birchfield. Aspen Birchfield or Saltwater Cowboys coming in like they got something going on. The deputies took it serious. They got a warrant for his DNA.

Okay. Does a DNA test? No match. Not him. And ain't him. Ain't him at all. They said, fine, they let him go. Paul.

Back there. Paul Malick. Yeah, here's your bendal. We're sorry. We wasted your time. Here you go. We're going to give you a couple cans of vandal. We put an extra,

well, we put an extra can of SpaghettiOs in there for you. We thought, you know, what the hell is poor guy? We'll give him a can with the meatballs in it. Poor fucking guy. He's been walking. Come on. It's walking up the tracks. Have a great day. Have a good one.

It just says white on the back. That's the type. Paul Malick, M-A-L-E-K. He was a neighbor backing out of his driveway as Mandy jogged past. Oh. Probably one of the last two people or three people, if you count the murder, to see her alive. Yeah. And he drives a dark-colored pickup.

Son of a bitch. Knows the area. has the vehicle, all of that. He came in. He talked where she was. This is where I was. I was going this way. She was going that way.

Now, he's very talkative. Like, he's real talkative. And they're like, that's weird. Normally people who don't do anything aren't real talkative. They'll give you answers to the questions that are talking too much, talking too little is one of the signs homicide detectives look at, literally. Too much eye contact? Too little eye contact.

Too much of this. Too little of that. There's a normal range. There's a dude, they can make it, but there's a normal range of shit they're looking for that it's very small. It really is. So they said that they wanted to talk to him and because he was the one who was like, I saw her.

I was back out of my driveway and I did all this stuff and he's real talkative. So they're like, anybody who inserts themselves into an investigation that doesn't have to. Something odd here. And he doesn't like he has any information. other than I saw her, so he really seems like he wants to know what they want to know or what the cops know. He told investigators reportedly

that during all this whole thing and his rambling, he said that, well, Mandy reminded me of my own daughter. Oh? Which can be super creepy or endearing, depending on what kind of person is. It really is.

Yeah. Because it's one of those things. Sometimes you have a daughter. Yeah. If you see like a four-year-old girl sometimes, you go, oh, because you remember when you're, you know what I mean? You don't talk to her or anything, but you go, you know, that's cute. I remember when my daughter was that big. Hey, get your number.

You don't go, you look like my daughter did when she was four. You don't talk to them or bother them. They're four. But you think, oh, that's cute or whatever. But then there's also people who say that that creep me out, whether they feel like they're like, hmm, you know. Just want to hug her. No. Yeah, no.

Stop touching. That's a weird cross-off. where reeling good people and really bad people meet. And there are cops that say things like I saw this crime scene and the kid was the same age as mine and it made me want to solve it more. Like that's fine. That makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. I was at the store the other day that was a little girl and I just remembered my daughter at that age. And I just thought to myself, I remember my daughter was that age. I was cute. That's all. Any little kid with a little sprig on the top of their head because Presley had that on the top of her head.

It's a little like a little bit of hair on the top And we'd put a little bow on it And anybody that has like a little sprig up there with the bow on it I get a little I remember Get a little sentimental And I miss it on your kids since they were babies For Christ's a fucking nightmare

I love that kid but she is not easy That's fucking funny And now all of her friends know about it Because on Netflix we're Now they're gonna make fun of her for having a bow and her sprig in her hair. That little bit of hair she had. That's great.

So they talk to him. He tells them that, which they were thinking about. But they do a DNA test and ain't him. Not him. Not a scumbag. The other guy they bring in is going to be the obvious choice. Who do you think it is, Jimmy? The boyfriend.

The boyfriend. He always bringing the boyfriend. Come on. He's the first guy he talked to. Why are you trying to run away? We got Drifter, guy who talked too much, and then the boyfriend. Those are the three big ones. That's the big three.

Rick Zender, the boyfriend. Rick drove Mandy home from college, obviously. He cooperated immediately and completely and was cleared of everything. No DNA match, and it's cleared. And he also doesn't like run away. He stays around, keeps up contact with her family for a while. And, you know, it seems like a decent power. Yeah.

So they said at that point, the drifter, this guy. guy, they said at that point, we were kind of focused more on the neighborhood where she grew up, where it might be somebody she knew, somebody in the area. It's got to be. And that's the other thing. If it's somebody she knew, it's a lot easier to get her. She won't do that initial back off when you talk to her. She'll actually come closer to you because she knows you wants to hear what you're saying.

January 6th, 1990, the task force leader here, the King County prosecutor, said the kidnapping and death of Mandy. has renewed his resolve to push for sweeping legislation to impose harsher penalties on violent sex offenders. This guy says he's the chairman of a task force on community protection. The task force drafted a package of recommendations, including longer prison sentences, a requirement that convicted sex offenders register with authorities because they didn't even do registering yet then. And possible civil commitment of offenders, meaning in like an institution until they're, ready to not rape anybody. This guy said that Stavik, Mandy,

disappeared about a half mile from his boyhood home. So it's very personal for him. He said he grew up on a dairy farm near Acme and also went to Mount Baker High School where Mandy went also. He said, of course, the tragedy in Acme has renewed my commitment to not only develop this package, but to make sure it passes the legislature.

This is a problem in every town and city in Washington. The task force was formed after the sexual mutilation of a seven-year-old Tacoma boy last May and the rape killing of a Seattle woman nine months earlier. Jesus. Wow. The 24-member panel's recommendations are expected to cost $15 million this year and $55 million in the next two-buts year, next two-year budget cycle. And that's money well spent if we stop that shit from happening. That's the type of money you should be spent.

God, damn. State lawmakers return to work Monday and have scheduled legislative package. And they said it's on a very fast track. They're looking for a maximum sentence of life in prison for repeat rapists, child rapists and child molesters of, you know, a special origin. A requirement that convicted sex offenders register, obviously. Weird thing is that's the thing everybody's been, they said that constitutional questions are raised about the provision for registration, which is something nobody has a problem with that I can, that I've ever heard of. What's the constitutional part? You can't.

What are they trying to say? No, I don't know. Putting people on list. Tracking people? There's a certain, tracking people. There's certain things to that. Yeah, invasion of privacy type of thing. I'm not sure.

But that's the one that nobody, we're all in agreement on. We're all, the only people that have a problem with it. Yeah. There's no real sides to that one. I mean, the ACLU is probably fine with that even. Like, well, yeah, that's fine. That's, you know, these are diddlers. So they said the registration would be a value.

tool for law enforcement and the ability to identify, commit, and definitely commit convicted sex offenders to psychiatric institutions once they finish prison. So that would be another place to put them. People are pissed here. That's one of the things here. People are pissed and they don't know what to do about it. And when they don't know what to do about it, this is when bad laws get made and bad things happen.

Like after 9-11, we did a ton of dumb shit because we were all scared. Made it wrong countries and pissed away hundreds of billions of dollars. And it's a react. We do it all the time. That's what groups are good at is. Humans are great. Mass panic. Mass panic.

Individually not. Couple not. You get more than five. It's all bets are off. So this is an editorial from a Sharon Chandler of 3214 Vallette Street. She says, the death of Mandy Stavik, a wonderful young woman, was the last straw. Are we safe? in what come county anymore?

Oh, God. Yes, you are. What about all those folks out there working and improving their lives through walking and jogging? Do they feel safe? We need to do what it takes. One, support the law enforcement and judicial systems to make sure the perpetrators are caught and punished to the full extent of the law. I think that's being done. There's nobody trying to take money.

Yeah, there's nobody trying to take money from the rape and murder task force. That's not how that works. Two, establish the strong student or statement message of those moving into our community that violence of this nature will not be tolerated here. Stay out. What community is it tolerated? What community do they go? Yeah, what do you got? Child rapist?

Come on in. There's a two bedroom here. You're going to love. It's real life spacious. Overlooking the river. Yeah. That's the craziest thing. Overlooking the daycare.

Yeah. And then three, keep crime and gangs out of what Com County. You live in the woods. I don't think you have to worry about that too much. But there's a ton of crime there now, which is not gangs. I applaud the efforts of law enforcement on the crackdown. Please don't let it get a hold of our youth and community. That's just a person whose hair is on fire and they're just angry and they think, I want more things.

They're just slobbering a bunch of cliches. Yes. Shit that doesn't work but costs a lot of money. Peretting shit that's already been said to them that they believe is the right answer. And I'm sure they heard it on some fun. fucking weird talk radio. I'm sure. Rushland boss and horse shit or something.

Some idiots. November 24th, 1991, still nothing. Yeah. It's a year later. Nothing. Or two years later.

We got Uyghats here. Two years here, they're still waiting for something, which is crazy. The basketball coach, Jim Freeman, said, I still think about her a lot. I still feel a loss.

Okay. And then her mother, Mary, said, the community is not forgotten. It was not just Mandy who was raped and murdered. The whole community was raped and murdered, and they will never forget it. That's a weird statement. My God.

Wow. Rape and murdered, huh? That's maybe raped, like, mentally, but murdered is pretty specific of what that is. Yeah. That's a mom at her wits end. She doesn't know what to say. She doesn't know what to say anymore. No.

They also have, in the newspaper, just this. Anyone with information on the Mandy Stavik can. should call these phone numbers. Detectives are still seeking information on three vehicles seen in the area. This is two years later. A full-sized light brown station wagon, late 70s model with a chrome roof rack

and other chrome trim, possibly a Chevy or Chrysler, male driver 30 to 35, pudgy face, heavy-billed, dark hair, sideburns, large mustache, three-day beard growth. A dark brown pickup with a white canopy, I mean, that's the cap there.

The canopy has dark brown striped, on the side and the truck had a metal step and diamond plate running boards. Oh. Okay, which sounds like my grandfather's pickup truck, which is... Every grandfather in the 70s had that truck. Does the license plate holder say happiness is being Italian? Because if it is, I think I can solve this case right now. I think we can lock this up.

He's been dead since like 89, but... A bad day fishing is still better than a good day. It works, because that's my grandfather. That might be that, yeah. A dark brown or black Chevy or Ford pickup truck with matching canopy and a gold striped trim and slightly oversized tires. So that's what they're looking for. People are so pissed the sheriff gets voted out. Oh, fuck.

Loses his job. Lost his job because he couldn't solve it. One of the locals here, Sue Kimball, who's a neighbor of Mandy's family, said the anger is reflected in the November 5th election results in which the Challenger defeated the, incumbent by a sizable margin. Wow. The president or the sheriff, current sheriff, garnered only 22% of the vote in the precinct that Acme is in. That's, fuck you.

Yeah, that's a no confidence vote. Yeah, he's probably related to the other, to 22% who voted for him because it's such a small area. Yeah, lost by 80%. Yeah. Compared with nearly 46% in the county at large here. But he got, in Ackon. me two years before the murder, he got almost 75% of the vote knock me. So in those four years,

he lost. Overwhelmingly. He went from 75 to 22% in this area based solely on this. And the one lady said the unsolved crime had a lot to do with it. Fuck in it. Yeah. There's still a reward. The sheriff's department continues its investigation, has no suspects, but they do have a $25,000 reward fund for information leading to the arrest and conviction here. But they say it's untouched and nothing's happened. Now, there's another weird thing here that her mom is talking about. The police and county prosecutors have suggested to her that Mandy's death may have been an accidental outcome of an abduction and a rape.

Maybe it wasn't intentional the murder. Some speculate that Mandy escaped from her captor, fell. fled, fell in the river and drowned, she said. Okay. So she got away. I don't know who would run. That would mean that this was happening away from the river. And she said, I'm going to run toward the river to get away.

Who the fuck runs into a river to get away? I mean, are there people there? No, you run toward where people are. Houses, things you can run on. You can't run on water. No. But I mean, if you get across the water, that's certainly going to slow down somebody that's chasing you. I suppose, but I just, I wouldn't, I wouldn't think someone's going to go, I'm going to run through the thorny blackberry bushes into the river because that's where I'll be safe.

That just doesn't make sense. I mean, you do weird shit, I guess, too, if someone's on you, but it makes more sense that she'd run away from the river because that's where you drown. But that's what she's doing, if that's the theory is that's the equivalent of throwing shit behind you as you run. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just not buying this. They said that that's, that's the accidental theory, which I don't think. is true. Her mom said they really believe that it's possible that her death was accidental. The

chances that he would, that someone would be convicted of murder are pretty slim, is what she was told. So now that she's been told, I guess this is all fucked out now. We might get somebody on rape, but we can't get him on murder. Who knows? She said, right now I can, I can kind of put it out of my mind. I don't really relish going through a trial anyway. So she's like, I can kind of just say, I guess, fuck it. She said she's just focusing on commemorating her daughter's achievements. She showed off a plaque bearing Mandy's portrait and the name of the first Mount Baker High School student to receive the Mandy Stavik Memorial Scholarship.

That's nice. Pay out or whatever. She said, the mom said she planned to place the plaque temporarily at Mandy's gravesite in the Clipper Cemetery. She hopes it will remind people that Mandy's ambition to excel lives on. She said the plaque will later hang at school. It's a $6,000 scholarship fund raised mostly by sales of Mandy's song tape. It's their fucking We Are the World.

They sold some? They sold it, probably at the general store. Still growing, they said, albeit slowly, the first $750 scholarship went to Lydia Stewart, now a freshman at Western Washington University. Lydia's brother, Pete Stewart, co-authored. Sandy song. Oh. The tape. Hmm.

Yeah. Her, I mean, it's a small town, so yeah. Yeah. The tape can be ordered and donations made

to the scholarship fund by writing to Mandy's song fund. And I don't think you can still do this. I don't think there's still a Bellingham National Bank, so I'm sorry. That's where it is.

They said, this is Mary Mom. Anytime a child dies, it's really important to the parent that their memory be kept alive somehow. I'm just really lucky. that Mandy was the kind of person that made people want to do things like this for her in her memory.

So there's a Mandy Stavik reward fund. It's over $17,000. There's the Mandy Stavik personal fund, which is over $2,500 that is defray the cost of funeral. Anything given beyond those expenses will be basically, they said, a Christmas gift to the Stavik family. They're just going to keep it. Anything beyond. It's okay. and the Amanda Mandy Stavik Memorial Scholarship,

which that's what they have for her. So now as the 90s progress, DNA becomes way more common. It's being used for everything. It's steamrolls in progress. Nowadays, it's so funny because nowadays, when they have murder suspects, watch interrogations that have happened in like the last eight years.

They barely want to talk to you. They just want to swab you and take your phone. phone. That's all they really need from you. They don't need to hear it because your phone will show me where you are and what happened. If they've already got your DNA, when they come to sit them down, they just want to ask them, were you ever in this house? And if they say no, they go, well, then put these cuffs on because your DNA's in there. You just said no, then you did it. But that's it. And whether they said yes or no, they still would have cuffed them. They just

wanted to fuck with him for a minute. Yeah, it's, it looks worse that they lied about it. That's all it is. So the police investigation leads to a bunch of suspects who they exclude due to DNA. Case goes cold. Wow. Possible suspects, roughly 30 local men throughout the 90s gave voluntarily gave DNA or were otherwise ruled out for rock solid alibis or, you know, one guy who had like one leg or something, he's not going to chase a fucking athlete or anybody over a certain age or in bad health. There was the drifter named David Souchy that we talked about, the neighbor, the boyfriend. They even ran the profile against Gary Ridgeway because they said it's a little far for him, but fuck it.

I mean, maybe he took a trip that day. Yeah, maybe they took a trip up by then, yeah, once he got caught in the 90s there. 2003 comes around. Stop it. 14 years. Whatcom County law enforcement officials discount a report. that linked a deceased robbery and murder suspect to the murder. Apparently there was a rumor going around that this guy who died,

former Jefferson County Sheriff Pete Puccini said that in 1990 he found evidence in a locker that linked Charles T. Sinclair to Stavik, but they conclusively rule him out. 2007, the Wedcom County Sheriff's Office devotes more hours to reviewing the case reports of cold cases and sending detectives to re-interview people involved, nothing happens. 20 years later, man. 2009, 20 years later, Detective Kevin Bow-H-H-H-H-E-E-H-A-Y,

he reopens the investigation. He was a rookie in 1989. A rookie cop when this murder happened. So this was like this big deal, this big black cloud that's been hanging over the department. His entire career. his entire career since he, since he came up. So, and he decides he is going to redo all this and get DNA samples from anyone who lived

anywhere in the fucking area. Don't care. If you got a dick and you lived around here, we're swabbing you, period. That's it. He starts from page one and redos the entire investigation, which is a big deal. This is the 20 years of investigation. Yeah. He looks at who was interviewed, who wasn't interviewed, all this shit.

He also saw apparently, is this a movie here? What is it? The blooding. Do you know this? Blooding? The blooding. Yeah. Apparently, it's Joseph Wambah's account of the 1980s Lecashire investigation where British DNA tested

thousands of local men to catch the killer of two teenage girls. Womba, that's got to be a book, right? I don't know if it's a book or a movie. I'm not sure. But either way, it was, they just said, gather everybody up, and if you take enough samples, you'll find the person.

And he said, why can't I do that? Fuck it. If they do it voluntarily, then why not? Whatever. So, this was the first, because the one he read about was the first DNA dragnet in history. Oh. The first time they ever did that,

because two teenage girls were murdered. It worked. The thing is, the interesting thing is the killer ended up getting a co-worker to take the test for him, and then the co-worker talked about it in a pub, and that's how he got caught the guy, which is interesting. So all of that didn't matter because it was caught by some guy who told on him. So basic police work ended up solving it, not DNA. Interesting.

So over the course of the investigation, Detective Bowie or Bowie, and his team collect more than 80 people's DNA. Oh. 20 years later. Wow. They asked him, by the way, 48 hours did a story on this, and they asked him,

how many times did you drive the route that she was on, Mandy's route? And he says at least 100 over the last 20 years work in this case, at least 100. So I'm just, when he's bored, he goes and drives it and sees, you know, maybe something else,

or maybe it would have been here, or maybe that, hoping to see an angle that he didn't see before, which is really frustrating. Has to be. Just done so much of it. You know, he said he goes through it and he knows everything. Here's where she started. Here's the bend.

Here's the wooded stretch. Or I thought she was taken. Here's that. He knows it by like, you know, a blind guy knows her house, basically. So over the last several years, he's doing all of this, all these different people. 2010, there's a local drug dealer. Well, he's not local anymore, but he used to be a local drug dealer named John Wisniewski. He told some people back in the early 90s that he knows stuff about this murder that he maybe shouldn't know.

And the inference is either he knows who did it or he may have done it himself. Let's talk with. Problem is he lives in Cambodia now. What? It's been 21 years. He's in Cambodia. Why do he moved? I mean, he's obviously in trouble here, right?

Who the fuck knows. Maybe he's like, you know, the righteous gemstones guy. He's like, yeah, he's one of those guys that's like, man, fucking chicks and fucking, you know, you know, how to treat you over there type of shit. Yeah, man could live like a king on $300. Yeah. Cambodia, too. Go to the Khmer Rouge and fire off fucking machine guns. And you could probably, you know, you could probably pay $30 to kill a child there.

And they would like, like, they have wallless areas of Cambodia that are crazy. And that's just at their Cambodian Walmart. That's, as I say, that's actually the Delta terminal at the airport. But then once you get into the actual country, wow, it gets crazy. Then it gets wild. So his DNA wasn't a match. They already had the guy's DNA. And it wasn't a match.

But for some reason, this cop said, I really have a feeling about this guy. I want to speak Cambodian to him. I really want to go on a free trip to Cambodia. I've always been interested because the DNA does not match. Everybody else immediately. is out once their DNA doesn't match. This guy's like, I still would love to talk to him. I'm going to a $30 child.

So he does. He goes all the way over there. Wow. And he said that he kept repeating the denials. And the cop said he's a good liar. And I have a bad feeling about him. But what I don't have is any evidence whatsoever. And his DNA doesn't match.

So waste of time, flying back home. Great trip. Another dead end. Got a tan. Perfect. It was great, though. I tried to some great food. It was amazing.

It's a jungle over there. It's beautiful. It's a jungle out there. June of 2013 comes around. Oh, my God. This is the most unlikely way that a case has ever been solved in the history of small town murder, by the way. Okay. June 2013, Birch Bay Water Slides, which is a water park near Bellingham.

Yeah. Not what you expected me to say, correct? It's an interesting start. That's the scene. Okay. two moms from the Acme area who didn't come there together and don't know each other very well, by the way. They just recognize each other from Acme and realize we're probably the only two people from Acme here. We should talk.

So while their kids, they're watching their kids do water park shit and the parents sit there and talk. They're both from Acme. Within a couple of minutes, their small talk drifts into, isn't it crazy how we still don't know who killed Man? Andy back in 1989. That's all they have to talk about. That's how boring this town is. Isn't that weird? I agree.

There's some weird shit happening right now, and us talking about this as part of it. At a fucking water park. Yeah. Honey, yeah, it's weird that she's dead. Okay, sweetie, watch out. Be careful. It's time to reapply sunscreen to my children. Why do you want to talk about rap and murder, you psycho?

But they both want to do it. Yeah. They both went to Mount Baker High School, but barely knew each other. up till this point. They started chatting. And suddenly the one, Baxter, Heather Baxter and Merrily Anderson are these two.

Baxterum suddenly blurts out, I know who killed her. Why? And what? Huh? Great. Tell some. What the fucking telling me for?

Yeah. Why'd you wait this long? Then Anderson said, I do too. They know the same guy? Where the fuck were you to then? What the fuck? Now, they're intrigued because they both have an idea of who they think did it, basically.

I know who killed her. Does it mean I actually know. I'll tell you if that's who I think. So they end up saying the Anderson says it's a guy named Tim Bass, not Tom Bass, who we talked about earlier, who Mandy was supposed to hang out with, Tim Bass, Tom's brother. And did the other girl say the same thing? Let's get into this here. She said Tim Bass, who also graduated from Mount Baker, who was a friend of this Anderson woman's husband, by the way.

Oh, boy. She said one time he stopped by her house one night a couple of years after the murder and knocked on the door. He said he'd been out hunting and needed to use the phone. Now, Anderson was home alone with her infant son. She said she heard Tim Bass dial the phone, but she could hear the beat, beat, beep of it not going through. Yeah, he's just holding it up to his ear. After a while, that dial tone would go,

beep, beep, me. That's what happened. So she suspected that he was not dialing a working number and lying to her trying to get into the house. Good instinct. So this lady says, so then he walks through the kitchen and back to my bedroom. And he said that he used to drive by our house and that he's always been in love with me and he wanted to make love to me.

can I make a phone call? I've wanted to make love to you is a very big in the background. She said she was overcome with fear at that moment. Her husband was away and she was alone with a man who now she's scared of. She said, I kept telling him no, no,

but he kept trying to convince me to go into the bedroom with him. Finally, I told him I would call the police and somehow I don't even remember how exactly, I got him out of my house. Baxter says, that's exactly the fucking guy I'm talking about. Tim fucking bass. Why do they know that?

Well, Baxterm said, I had a weird experience with Tim also. That's why they know that. They don't know anything about the case other than this is a guy who lived there that creeped them out. So he might be capable of whatever. And she said she had a terrible experience months before the murder of Mandy. The other one was a couple years after. This is before. This Baxter was only 15 at the time, and Bass was 21.

This Bass is three years older than Mandy. And it was after a softball game. They were riding in a truck driven by another young man named Dan, who, by the way, Heather, the other woman she's talking to, eventually married. So this woman's husband was still on the truck at this point, too. It's small town. Oh, yeah, you were in the truck with him? Yeah, I married that guy. Amazing.

At the time, though, everybody was just friends. Heather, or I'm sorry, she married, not the other lady. The lady who's telling this story, she married Dan. Oh, God, I got confused. At the time, though, they were just friends. Heather sat between Dan, the driver, and Tim Bass in the front seat while everyone else was in the back of the truck. Bass started aggressively flirting with her, she said. It's 21 and 15.

That's great. Gross. She said, quote, he would talk about my eyes and say that they were beautiful. Then he took a pen out of the cup holder and would start rubbing it along my knees. What? What a creep. Why is that a, why is that flirting? That's not your finger, a pen?

Yeah, that's weird. Tracing her knee. What's the mean with a fucking pen? She said she was very uneasy, but was not, didn't freak out because she knew there was another person in the cab and thought that Dan would prevent Tim from getting any more physical. But it always stuck out in her memory, and she made an point of always trying to avoid contact with Tim Bass after that. They, for years, thought that he behaved toward them in a predatory way, and that made them rubbing your, okay, rubbing a girl's knee with a pen and abduction, rape, and murder are worlds apart. Vast. Worlds apart.

Vast. That's like saying, I went out with this guy once and he tried to kiss me and I didn't want to, and then, you know, he didn't kiss me and it was fine. I think he might have killed this girl. Like, what are you talking about? That's a big leap. As far as I know, Louis C.K. hasn't murdered and raped anybody. However, he's done much creepier things than dragging a pen along somebody's knee.

Yeah. You will have, you know, jizz on your shoes when you're done talking to him. That's a whole other issue, though. So this stuck out. Yeah. Oh, definitely. But the other woman I could see, he came to her house and that's really uncomfortable. But he didn't rape her or anything.

I think she left, so he left. But anyway, they thought that for years this was weird, but they had nothing more to concrete to go on. So they never called the cops and said, I think it's this guy. And also Anderson said, I really wasn't ready because we were in a small town and to accuse someone of something we don't know for sure is a little scary. Because you look like a crazy person. Yeah, but we just called the cops and say maybe look at this guy.

Yeah, but I mean, based on that, you sound crazy. I was in a truck with him. I was in a truck with him 30 years ago and he rubbed a pen on my leg. So the cop would go, okay, and, well, he rubbed a pen on my leg. It was kind of uncomfortable. Did he, you know, put his dick in your face?

No, no, no, no. The other story is scarier. The other story is in her house. That's fucking, that's terrifying. With a toddler. With her child, yeah. But at this point, they said it was time to speak up. So they contacted a high school classmate

who, of course, is also a detective with the sheriff's department because everybody knows each other and said, there's this guy, Tim Bass. Did you look at Tim Bass? And they go, yeah, we talked to the Bass guy when it first happened. He was one of the guys looking for the body. And they go, no, no, no, no, no. That's Tom Bass.

Tim Bass is the guy we're talking about. Literally one letter off. Oh, shit. So the Basses were a known family on Strand Road. Dad and Mom Sandra and the two boys, Tim and Tom there. Tom was in the same social circles as Mandy. Okay. She was supposed to hang out that night.

They were friends. They knew each other well. They were friends. His older brother, Tim, though, born in 1968, about three years older than that group, doesn't hang out with them. This is Timothy Forrest Bass, is his name. Forest Bass. Sounds like a strangest animal that's ever lived. This is your forest bass, he don't need much water.

I'll tell you that. It's all right. bass that swims up the stream and for reasons unknown. He just flops out in the forest and dies. It gets on out. I mean, he's good for a while, but, you know, he ends up running out of water. They just flop out there and die under a tree. So he is obviously used to be a neighbor that we know of because Tom was a neighbor,

lived on Strand Road also, same road. He's been married to the same woman since 1991. That's impressive. As of now. has three kids. Like I said, grew up on Strand Road, same dead-end stretch. Grew up just a few houses away. 25 years marriage?

25 years at that point. So that means that Mandy jogged past his house nearly every single fucking day. Always jog past the house. Her regular five-mile route took her directly by his front yard. There you go. So Tim also went to Mount Baker High School, class of 1986. So they overlapped, actually. They were in school at the same time.

Everybody knows everybody. Tom, his brother, says Tim got real fucking weird at one point. Oh? Yeah. He said as kids, they were really close. Tom says his brother, and they were, you know, he says Tim's always been a loner, but as a teenager, he was fine. And then he started to get deeper issues. Tom said they were always very competitive.

We had a lot of fun together playing different sports, saying, Tim has always been a loner, but it got weirder. Okay, Tom says, this is from a 48 hours interview, by the way. I'm going to give credit where it's due. I didn't go fucking talk to these people, I'll tell you that much. I don't have time to. Tom said social interactions never really been natural to him. That's what he said.

Not a real social guy, Tim. Tom remembers one particular night after a high school girlfriend broke up with Tim. Tim lost his fucking mind. I'm not happy Tom said quote He was on the phone with her in his bedroom And he apparently had a pistol with him At some point he said

I'm going to kill myself And he actually ended up firing the gun In the house at some point For her to hear over the phone Something fired it into the air And Tom said from that night on People close to Tim noticed that he was a different guy From that night on

Being dumped once ruined him Which is pretty fucking weak So Tom says just the disgust, the disrespect toward women. That turned him completely different. Fuck all women? How often does that happen, though? I know so many guys that were normal guys that got a divorce that turned into fucking misogynist lunatics because their wife took half their shit. And now they hate women.

And they used to be normal people with normal opinions. and then one woman, they feel wronged them, and now they hate them. And it's like, it's such a weird, a weird thing to be. I know the guy that got divorced three times and each time progressively worse. Yeah. By the third one, this man's now in his 60s, he's been divorced for 20 years and just hates women. Yeah, absolutely. It's fucking true.

There's a lot of assholes, even like famous people, he go, why did he make that turn? Look at when his divorce was. What was his divorce? Yeah. You know exactly the one I'm fucking talking about, too. We've met the guy, as a matter of fact. It correlates. Yeah.

Oh, that's why he's like that. Okay. So, yeah, just the disrespect toward women. Then his, this is Tom's wife, Robin, said, she saw it too. She said, oh, yes, I think that he really thinks that women are inferior to him. That's a really wild thing. It's so fucking weird. It doesn't necessarily even have to be a divorce.

It could just be like that, a breakup. He got dumped in. It's a fucking high school relationship. Yeah, who cares? Everybody gets dumped in high school. Get over it. What's wrong with you? Fuck, wait until your mid-20s.

That's when it really hurts. That's when it's, yeah, when you start planning things, and you're like, oh, in high school, you're not planning anything. You know you're not going to be with this person very long. It doesn't matter. And in your mid-20s. And there's so many other girls. Right.

In your mid-20s, you both got a salary. And that compensatory value kind of, you start to see yourself as like, I don't know, you value yourself at a certain level. And then she, like, for her to treat you like garbage and I'm doing well. How dare you? I'm trying, God damn it. So they said that this, people described him very oddly. They said that this is very weird.

Doing some more, you know, follow up on this, they found that everyone calls him a loner, quiet or a bit of a weirdo, a bit of an odd ball. That's what everybody says about Tim. when he was already out of high school, he would show up to watch the girls' high school basketball games. Which creepy, but also it's a small town. He went to the high school. Everybody kind of does that because I think it's creepy to watch high school sports

if your kid's not playing in it. I think it's fucking weird. I think it's creepy to show up to any girl's sporting event if your child is not there. Or relatives. Or boys. What are you kidding me? I just mean because there's a blanket acceptance. showing up to boys' sports.

Yeah, it shouldn't be. That's creepy. That's what I'm saying. I don't disagree, but I'm just... Grown men want to watch boys sweat and fucking wrestle and tackle each other? You're a fucking pedophile. That's creepy as fuck. I have no interest in watching boys football.

Yeah, it's their neighborhood high school and they're living a dream and drinking beer. They're tailgating it for... That's maybe even worse. That's the creepiest shit ever. And like Texas, 15,000 people show up to watch children in an athletic... somebody else's children. Creepy. Yeah, that's disgusting and weird and creepy and shows a lack of life.

It's infinitely worse to show up to a girls basketball game. Yeah. If your child or family member is not on the fucking court. No. I guess it's, like I said, because it's such a small town, it's not considered weird behavior. Because there's really nothing else to do. I think that about the Acme Diner concerts. Yeah.

I think that about any girls' sports, to be honest with you. I don't care if it's the U.S. women's soccer team. I'm not showing up unless my daughter. daughter's playing. Otherwise, you feel like a creep. Otherwise, it's fucking weird. It's fucking weird, which is not great for the, uh, no, it's not good advertisers for them. The metrics of their fucking sport.

It really doesn't help them very much here. So, but that's just a weird thing they noticed. Now, in November of 1989, when this all happened, he had a girlfriend. Tim did. Right. His high school sweetheart, who he ended up marrying. Marrying. And that two years later is when that other lady said that event happened.

He was fucking married. He was fucking married already. Absolutely. This is Gina Malone is his high school sweetheart. Gina said, quote, I married him basically to get away from my home. She just needed to get out of the house. Old school, small town, get me the fuck out of this house. Apparently, weeks after they got married, which was January 1990, he wanted to move away from the area and they moved to Everson, which is outside of Bellingham.

Yeah. She says throughout her 30-year marriage to him, he was controlling and emotionally abusive as well. She said, I felt like his servant. Go get me a drink. Go make my food. Things like that. creepy. Tom, the brother, said, I personally witnessed him tell Gina to shut up, you know, eight million times.

Really? Just a complete asshole. Gina said it didn't feel like a marriage. It felt like I went to prison, actually. but they had three kids. And she was asked, why'd you stay with them? And Gina said, I was scared. And I did leave, actually.

I got a restraining order and left for two months. At that point, I started divorce proceedings. And then he's like, quote, I'm just going to lie to the judge and get the kids taken away from you. She said, anything with my kids, I'm just like, okay, I'm going to do whatever I have to do to not lose my kids. You got him back eventually when this is all going on. I'll tell you that much. Well, there's that, but there's also the restraining order part looks bad. It looks bad.

He can lie his ass off in court. Judges see hundreds of things. They do. They'll see through you in a blink. They do, but you don't know, you don't realize that when you're in that situation, that you actually have the high, the high card in court. And I'm also springing generalizations, because there's generalizations. I got to fucking anunciate.

But there are certainly situations that judges don't see through. and then there's been violence based on a divorce too because the judge didn't see it. But for the most part- In some rural county or something, who knows? Yeah, yeah. That's what certain Brady laws exist to keep fucking divorce. You're not allowed to have guns if you're going through a contentious divorce because shit like that happens. But for the most part, judges are so good. I doubt that'll stay law for very long.

It's going to come off the books pretty quick here. They'll probably give you an extra gun if you're going through the divorce. Divorce is going to be both of you need a gun now. You need a gun to protect each other from each other. Yeah, courts all is on your way out. There you go, guys. Did you guys get your divorce 357s? They're on the table.

Here's your pen and your pistol, everybody. You can sign and walk. Now, he has no criminal history in Washington State. Really? None. Zero. But in August 2010, that's when his wife filed for domestic violence protection, lasting longer than a year.

And apparently, though, the wife alleged physical and verbal abuse and claim that Tim watched cold case file TV shows. She put this in her fucking court document in 2010. So this isn't after he was accused. Cold case file TV shows, he was obsessed with them. And during one incident, he told her, quote, I wouldn't get caught because I'm not that stupid. It'd be easy to get away with this.

These people are morons. Wow. Everybody that got caught, he would laugh at them and say how dumb they are, that they got caught. Not how terrible they are they did this murder. The only thing that he got out of the whole show is this fucking idiot got caught. What an idiot. Yep.

Now, here's the other thing. No one saw Tim Bass the day that Mandy went missing. No one saw him. Tom's accounted for. He's not. Brad Gorham was at the Bass house to hang out with Tom Bass. Gorham said Tom Bass, that he and Tom Bass both said that Tim was not at the house when they were there or when they saw Mandy run by. Tim wasn't there.

None of the other witnesses put on ever put him there either. So he was out doing something. He told his brother that he was out hunting all weekend, which we don't think is true. Also, gross. What a word to say when there's a missing girl. Yes, exactly. Awful. Very awful.

Now, they ask both brothers to give DNA. because, I mean, they both knew her. They both refuse. Why? They refuse to give DNA. Really? And they have zero evidence to get a court order to compel him to have DNA taken. They can't get DNA out of this guy unless he wants to give it to him at this point.

So they talked to Tim Boss, or Tim Bass, sorry, Bass. I was looking at Detective Bowie under it, and I'm like, I put the O in there. Detective Boeh asked Bass for a DNA sample. He indicated he was investigating the Mandy Stavik death. Tim acted like he didn't know who she was. Who's she? Yeah, the detective said he looked up and kind of like he was searching his memory. Like, who's that?

And then he said, oh, that was that girl that was found in the river years ago, right? And Bass told the detective that he didn't really know Mandy and said, initially he said, I don't even know where she lived. I don't even know. Meanwhile, they lived fucking few houses down from each other. You know everybody that lives on your street. But he said, either way, unless you have a warrant, I'm not giving you a DNA sample. Go fuck yourself.

So February 2015 now. We can't follow him and fuck his trash? That's what we're going to talk about. February 2015, they contact him again. And he again says, didn't do nothing. Ain't giving you no DNA. So go fuck yourselves. Okay.

Then we find out his. brother starts to crack on him a little bit here. At the time, after the cops came the second time, he was, now he starts getting worried because they've talked to me twice now. This is getting weird. So he admits to his brother, he says, look, I got to tell you something. What? Not that I killed her.

Not that I raped her, but he said, me and Mandy slept together a couple of times. We used to bang me and her. We used to bang. A couple times before she left for college. and then once more while she was home for Thanksgiving break, he tells his brother. Tom was like, what? What are you talking about? You didn't fucking know.

I was hanging out with her. You didn't know her. What are you talking about? He was shocked that he said, how'd that happen? And Tim said, oh, I just went up to her and said, oh, you're keeping fit. And that was it. Oh, I'm a coxman. I mean, she just saw me and I'm irresistible, obviously.

So Tim then told Tom that he and Mandy slept together, you know, before. that as well. Then he asked Tom, hey, will you do me a favor just so I don't look like I'm fucked up on this one? Tell the cops that you also slept with Mandy. That way, it'll look like she slept around a lot and that way maybe it'll go away. You know, call her a whore, if you would. That would be helpful for me. If you just... Could you spread some rumors about the deceased because I slept with her once? Why would that matter? There's a nice young dead lady. Please make sure everyone thinks she's a filthy, filthy whore. Just make sure everyone thinks that she fucked everyone in the neighborhood and all that,

even though she absolutely didn't. Two brothers. She loved brothers. Yeah. Yeah. Tell them that. The uncle towered her. It was great.

Yeah. It's ridiculous. A few days later, Tim and his wife, Gina, sat down with a conversation in a conversation with Sandra, Tim and Tom's mom. This is maybe the craziest conversation of all time. This is wild. All right. He says this and just out in the open, out loud. His wife's sitting there.

And his mom. And his mom. He says, mom, okay, you got to do me a favor. Look, dad's dead. Okay. No one's helping him. He's not going to back. Why don't we tell the cops that dad killed Mandy?

That way they'll leave me the fuck alone. Let's tell the cops, my dead father killed a teenage girl. Why would we do that unless you did that? Why? He said, well, that way they'll still leave me alone. If they have a suspect, they'll go, oh, it must have been that guy, and they'll close it, and it'll be over. Smurge his legacy. Yeah, both of their legacies, really. Either she was a whore or my father's a piece of shit and a murderer, one of the two.

The mom covered her face of their hands and said, no, no, no. Like, I'm not doing it. I'm not saying my dead husband murdered a fucking teenage girl. Then he admits to Tom that he was in the homestead field where the kids party near where she was found the same weekend she died. So she wasn't out hunting, wasn't doing any of that. He was right there. So then he puts himself at the crime scene.

Yeah. Then, oh my God. More from his wife. His wife tells a little more to the cops about their relationship, that he's intensely controlling, which is a rapist murderer. That's kind of what they do. Dictating what she wore, where she went, who she was allowed to talk to. She described being afraid of him and said she didn't feel.

safe. And of course, he liked to brag that if he ever committed murder, he'd never get caught because he's smarter than these idiots, okay? Which is hilarious. Also, Gina said that she and Bass had seen Mandy run past the Bass residence from Bass's upstairs bedroom window. You can see her running. That's what she said.

I've seen it before, so he must have seen it too. So 2017, they have no probable cause. They have nothing. This is crazy. Nothing. Yeah, this is almost 30 years. 30 years. They have nothing. The detective contacts Tim Bass's boss.

He works at a bakery, the Franz Bakery at this point. That's what he does. He delivers baked goods, this guy. She contact, they contact his boss, a woman named Kim Wagner. And the weird thing is, they said, we're trying to get some trash or some DNA from this guy. Wagner said he never lets, he doesn't throw anything out. out. He takes everything home with him. Everything.

He knows. He takes his trash home with him. This man watches so much. Yep. He takes his trash home. He takes shit home and burns it. He said he was the only driver that takes his work clothes home every day to wash them because they leave them there and they're laundered there.

Yeah. Like scintosh or some shit. He's the only driver that takes his work clothes home to watch. Launders his own clothes. His own clothes. And they said that was weird because she thought it was strange. but, you know, whatever. No cigarette butts, no coffee cups in the bath in the garbage, no, no nothing.

You cannot fucking, he doesn't, he throws everything, takes it with him. She always thought it was weird, but she just thought he was a weird guy. She didn't think he's covering up a murder. So that's what made this Kim Wagner even notice him, the clothes thing, which was so weird, registered as odd, and the perfect discipline about garbage and shit. So, by the way, a little bit about Kim. She was 19 years old in 1989 and grew up near Acme, and Mandy's murder, she said, was the first basically genuinely terrifying thing that happened that made her realize that bad things of the outside world could get to her. It was Mandy that did that.

Rune took her innocence. Kim manages the retail outlet store at the Franz Family Bakery in Bellingham, at the Bellingham in Bellingham in Bellingham. It's a bread company. You remember like the Entiman store they had? It's one of those, like the day-old shit that goes out of the stores. One of the delivery drivers here is him, and it's strange. So what she says about Tim, quote, the Tim Bass, I knew he was different. He was weird.

And I said, how was he weird? And she said, you just never knew what Tim was going to be at work that day. The smallest thing would anger him. And so you'd tend to kind of stay away from people like that. you don't know what Tim is going to show up. No. And she also said that he has a very low regard for women, and that was pretty obvious the whole time he worked there.

She said that, quote, he always called me woman. The boss? Called me. I guess woman. Yes. And she's like, that was weird. She said, you know, whatever.

But, you know. So Bass worked for these. He's delivering bread to local stores. The detective asked Kim Wagner if they could swab a delivery truck for DNA. Yeah. Basically. When they call, before they even bring it up,

they don't, before they even bring up Tim Bass and she says all that, that's the first question they ask. They don't say who they want to get. They just say, could we swab one of your delivery trucks? So she manages the retail outlet and doesn't supervise the driver, so she said, I don't fucking know. You got to call the corporate office.

They called the corporate office. The corporate office said, no. They called about a murder investigation. and they said, no, don't fuck with our bread trucks. Huh. So that's, if you buy from that company, think about that for a minute. Different angle here. So then they were like, fuck, we're thwarted there.

So they contact Kim Wagner again. And they specifically ask, can you find out Tim Bass's delivery route? Maybe we can get something if we follow them around. He'll throw away a coffee cup or something. So now, Wagner at that point figured out that this is probably about the Mandy Stavik case. And the guy said it is actually. So she said, okay, here's his delivery route and here's his schedule, Tim's. Nice.

So they trail him for a whole night. And he said they got nothing. Nothing. He said cigarette butts, bottles, anything he may have drank from, anything he may have eaten or half eaten or thrown away, got nothing. couldn't collect any discarded items that might have had his DNA on it. So then he's like, fuck. So Kim Wagner contacts the detective again to find out how the surveillance went. And the detectives, she said, how to go?

It's her employee. He works there. Yeah. Is he going to be taken away for murder or not? What are we doing here? Hey, guys, how to go? Yeah. It's fascinating.

Seems normal. It's a small town, too. They probably know each other before us. And this took her innocence. So she's like, every day. She's really into this. She's probably acting weird around him too. Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

The detective said we texted back and forth during this whole process. The detective said we didn't get any DNA. So Wagner tells the detective, I'll get you some DNA. I'll get you a water bottle. She said, would that work? And he said, sure, I'll get you some DNA. Come over here. Put your head down here.

The detective said, that would be fine. It would be great. The detective said he told Wagner, quote, I couldn't tell her what to do or not to do, but he agreed that he didn't try to dissuade her. He was just like, I mean, if you really want to, because legally, he can't tell her collect DNA for me because now she's an agent of the state. But if she does it on her own and comes and brings it in, he can go, I mean, hey, that's just a private citizen helping out. Nothing we can do about that. So what she does is she starts watching him at work.

There is a small employee checkout room, which is a shared office that's not open to the judge. general public. They go in and check in and check out with their shit. So not long after this conversation, he drank from a plastic cup and left it in the room for a minute. So she went in and fucking snagged it before he had a chance to do anything with it. Then she hit it in a, in her desk drawer. Now, this is obviously not proper forensic collections.

This is bad chain of evidence. Yeah. This is a chain of evidence. Custody. It's all bad. So then he drank from a Coke can and actually put it in the garbage at work. Oh. And so she went and grabbed that too.

She grabbed the Coke can, hit it in her desk drawer, and then texted the detective. Yeah. And she said, quote, and I just stood there and went, oh, shit, it's game time. I'm like, this is the jackpot. And so this time my heart was like, oh, I was dying because there was a lot of people around. So I grabbed it and I like threw it in my desk drawer. She just did it like real quick. Like, ooh.

Like everyone's going to go, hey, she just took that guy's water cup. Like anyone would know or care. So she met with Wagner that same day and turned over the cup and the can to him. She later, when asked, why the fuck did you do this of your own accord? She said, I felt a basic human moral obligation to help. By this time, I felt like if Tim was involved, it needed to be found out. Yeah. And how about that?

She eventually is the boss of the man who showed her how. fucking dangerous the world is. She's a supervisor. She's not technically his direct supervisor. She's a supervisor in the company, but still, that's a huge coincidence. It's crazy. And the guy calls her woman. Woman.

Hey woman. DNA here from the cup and the can, they match. Yotsie. The profile. They match. The chance they would, basically, that it's not him, is one in 11 quadrillion. That's a lot. That's a lot.

There's never will be. a quadrillion people living on this earth that have ever lived on this earth. It'll never happen. It's a lot. It's a lot. This is, it's interesting. Now, there's also shit here that there's another collection, DNA collection story

from this time here, because later on, obviously Tim's lawyers are going to attack this old thing. And there was Seattle detectives working in 82 cold curse, a cold case murder of a 13 year old girl wanted some DNA. So they invented a fake

law firm sent the guy a letter inviting to him to join a fictitious class action lawsuit. He signed the enclosed form, lick the envelope, mailed it back. They got his DNA, matched it, and convicted him. And the court said that was fine. That's funny.

I mean, if you're allowed to do Operation Fist. Yeah, that one was great. Which is a bonus episode we did where you tell all these people, you won tickets to the football game, and they all show up and you go, hey, you're a winner. And then you get everyone in a room with balloons, and they're all excited. Lock them up.

And you send you. and shitloads of cops, and they all go in with their shotguns and arrest everybody sitting there. What was the balloon? The double winner meant that they were... He's a double winner meant he was armed. Yeah.

Everybody got a balloon, but if you had... They'd give everyone a balloon, but if you had a gun, because they would hug the guy and feel for a gun. It's the funniest goddamn thing I've ever heard. He goes, he's a double winner, and they give him an extra balloon, and he go, I'm a double winner,

and that meant, you know, really keep an eye on him. Keep one trained at his fucking skull is what that meant. Hilarious. Imagine having a gun on your waist and carrying a balloon. That's amazing. All smiling?

Unbelievable. Now, the thing is, April of 2018, which is just months later, because this is in December of 2017, is when the Golden State Killer gets arrested and blows up the whole genetic DNA thing. So he would have gotten caught anyway. It was coming. Even if they didn't collect a cup, a year. from then, they would have got him on genetic databases and he would have been fucked. So it

doesn't matter. December 12th, 2017, he's arrested at the bakery. No standoff, no chase, just a chubby 50-year-old bakery delivery man putting handcuffs. That's it. It's wild shit. So he's

arrested, charged with first-degree felony murder predicated on rape and kidnapping. That's not good. Bad charges. Bad charges. this gets done. The sheriff gets to call Mary on her 81st birthday to tell her they finally got the guy. Oh, that's wonderful. Which is, yeah. She laid in. She said that she was a, said it was a great birthday present. They also called the old sheriff who got voted out, who was retired to Arizona.

Hey, dip shit. We did it. That's it. Hey, we did it, stupid. So, yeah, they say this is a big deal. And they said it was one of the best moments of my professional career when we got to inform her mother that we were. making an arrest. I think this is about the biggest case ever in Whatcom County. Our detectives have done just a phenomenal job. It only took them 30 years. They did a bang-up job, guys. And Kim really did the work. Yeah, Kim did the work. The mother did the work. Or they, brother, I mean, not the mother. So then they searched the house as well. You know, in Everson, the house he lives in with his wife. But they were unable to locate any, they didn't, Unable to locate the sweatpants that Mandy was wearing. Like he'd have kept them for 30 fucking years.

In the interrogation, he has, he's completely flat affect, they said. Totally flat. Not pissed, not yelling, not anything, just sitting there. No, let's get this over with and clear this up, just flat. The one guy, the detective Bowie, said that you could tell he was like auditing his own shit. Like, I went through all these. measures to keep my DNA from you. How did what happened here?

How'd you get it? How'd you get it? So he really switched the whole thing because at one point they said, a detective said, I'm questioning him on like, well, did you have any relationship with her? And he's saying no. I'm going, so did you even, you didn't even kiss her or anything? And he's saying no. And then I say, then why would your DNA be inside her?

Right. How'd that happen? And then he went from denial to how did you get my DNA and what are you talking about? So he went there. Trying to see what they know. Then he said we had a secret relationship. Then he brought up, we actually had a secret sexual relationship. And I didn't ever bring it up because I was dating my wife at the time and all this type of shit.

By the way, the wife said that he made them move the wedding up three months to January. Why did he do that? He insisted on it. And then they moved right after that. So he says in the interrogation, Tim, everything I've said is the truth. He said it was more of a friendship type thing. We just talked. Then it just kind of grew into more of a physical thing.

And we didn't even really do it that much. It was just more kissing and stuff. Okay. So they were saying, okay, well, what was she studying at Central? What were her interests and hobbies? Tell me about her life. Tell me what she would want to know about her. And he had no answers to any of that.

Because he didn't know her. A guy that fucks a woman or kisses a woman knows at least something about that woman. Like she's not going to tell him everything, ad nauseum in detail. About college? He's just trying to get in her pants. Yeah, he would have heard it all. So, no. No witness had ever seen them together, even in a small town.

Then there's jail visits from Tom and Mom here, which is even better. Tom later on would testify, quote, he said the cops are lying. He held up a handwritten note for them to see so it wouldn't get recorded. He said the cops are lying. Everyone is out to get him. Everyone is lying. He said they're going to kill me in here. And the main point of it is, I need a strong alibi or I'm going to prison.

He said, hey, mom, maybe you can say that we were Christmas shopping. Tom, do whatever you can do, saying, hey, there's our couple other guys that we knew in high school. Can you get them to say that they fucked Mandy too? And you say you fuck Mandy. So then like everybody fucked Mandy. So fuckinger's not a big deal. You know. Idiot.

And he said, no, I'm not doing that. And Tom tells his mother that why would he ask us to lie for him if he didn't do this? What are he doing here? I don't get it. And the prosecutor later said that that caused a break in Tom's relationship with Tim. And Tom replied that this incident was the start of it and indicated that he stopped visiting his brother in jail shortly after that. 2018, Mandy's dad, Glenn dies. And he got to see the guy get arrested.

Got arrested. But, yeah. 2018 also, there's drone footage from the old Bass house on Strand Road and Clipper. They position the drone outside of Bass's upstairs front bedroom window to show what his view of Strand Road would have been. And another detective with a dog jogged by to see if it's visible and it's clearly visible on the footage that you can see from his window exactly when she comes and goes. He wants to suppress the DNA results, arguing that Kim West. Wagner acted as a state agent when she collected the cup. But the court denies that and says Wagner came up with the idea to search and Detective Bowie did not direct, entice, or act as an instigator of Ms. Wagner's search.

She's just really into it. So, yeah, that's a big deal. They really want to do that. They keep going, what were your exact text messages back and forth? There's also dueling experts. This is interesting. This is all based on the number of spurred. The doctor Goldfogel said that he viewed the slides and saw sperm, meaning that were alive enough that had to have happened in the sex within 12 hours of her dying.

He said, but then I guess he did it under 100 times magnification, which another lady did it under 400 times magnification. And we'll talk about what happened there. Tim's refusal to take the DNA test will be excluded from trial. Okay. There's a defense expert is forensic biologist Dr. Elizabeth Johnson. She independently analyzes the sperm samples as well, or DNA. She concluded that under proper 400 times magnification, the relatively few sperm on the vaginal swab slides indicated it was more likely that intercourse occurred 24 to 48 hours before she was dead. So she's saying, no, that was actually less sperm.

Dr. Johnson believed the sperm count on the slides was, quote, not consistent with intercourse and then immediate death. Okay. The defense wants to use Mandy's diary against her. What's her diary say? They want to say, well, basically, in the diary, she wrote at some point, she wrote all time in it. But months earlier had wrote about struggles with depression, self-esteem. You know, freshman of college shit. Yeah, so I'm going to rape and murder myself.

Yeah, and that she thought about suicide at one point. So what? Is she going to get herself naked, rape herself and throw herself in the river? That's the suicide. I'm 45. I think about it every goddamn day. Oh, I mean, it's kind of like, like longingly almost. I saw obsession, and she describes what it would be like to die like to like to, like.

lay in bed and slit your wrists. And I was just like, what a fucking lovely night. It sounds fucking great. Everybody don't kill yourselves, please, just based on this. Let's not do that. The stress and overwhelming dread of daily life is just, it's a nightmare sometimes. Tell me about it. We got a deal with it.

That's life. It's life. We'll talk about other people's deaths. Yeah. So they said between the last June 89, entry in which she recounted feelings of depression and her November 89 death, she wrote in between that with a lot of enthusiasm about college life, upcoming travel, get-togethers with friends, family events. Not suicidal. In addition, none of the entries ever discuss a plan or intent to act on feelings of suicidality. She's depression. She's being a dramatic teenager. And that's what they said. The judge described it as simply representing teen angst.

Sure. Same shit. Also, he says there's a lack of evidence of. kidnapping and rape. Yeah. Yeah. He's saying, you don't have evidence. You don't have evidence because he's saying his expert saying that the rape was. Days before. Yeah.

Days before and all that kind of shit. So, but she said also that the afternoon she died, she returned to, plan to return from her run. It's basically she's saying, he's saying, okay, I had sex with her, but it was like the day before or whatever. Yeah. But they're like, well, she was with her family, the entire thing. Thanksgiving Day. So it's impossible. How'd you do that? Yeah. Was your dick hidden in the turkey? What would happen? Like that didn't happen there. Um, it just didn't happen. And they said that it was unlikely that she met Bass and had consensual sex with him out while out on a run. Right. Before she was

going to go out on what was a sense, what was ostensibly a date with another guy. So it's weird. And the, the, that story is implausible anyway, because then what? She's found in a river and the dog comes home terrified. Thank you. What's the, what's he trying to say happen? He's missing a part of that one. He also argues there was no vaginal wounds to support the assertion that she was a victim of sexual assault. However, the doctor says that based on literature and his own experience, men examining more than a hundred sexual assault victims, it is more common to not find external or internal injuries than to find the injuries. Yeah. Yeah. He probably had a, he probably had a little dick this guy It looks like a little dicked asshole.

Probably a tiny dick. The lack of such wounds doesn't negate the fact that she was raped. It just doesn't. So there's all sorts of shit. Also, March 2019, right before the trial, Gina divorces Tim as well. Oh, ho. So he's on his own now. The jury is seated.

It consists of 12 jurors. They say eight men and four women. Jury selection was really difficult because, have you heard of the most famous thing that's ever happened in this town? No, weird. So it took a long time. Every time anybody comes home, they see their deadbolt and they remember. Yeah, that's what happened. The prosecutor, David McEachran, McEchran, was retired and after 44 years and came back as lead prosecutor just to handle this case because it was like his whole career, basically. He said the evidence will show that Mandy was abducted. We know that she did not cross Highway 9. We know that she was on her way home.

We know she had some scratches on her arms and legs through, as though she'd been running through the brush. She had an injury to her head. The defendant's DNA was inside her. We know she was kidnapped. We know she was raped and then killed. We know that he wanted his brother to say that he himself had sex with her to make her look like a loose girl and he wanted an alibi. These things are all critical when you're trying to put together a puzzle of what happened. The evidence is very, very clear.

This was not a situation where there was consensual sex. There was no contact between these people. She was abducted, she was raped, and she was killed. I ask you to hold him accountable for what he did, which is an atrocious thing. Wow. His defense is someone else abducted and raped her. Really? Just someone else.

That's it. The defense attorney says, for 30 years, that's how law enforcement investigated this case. Is that the semen donor must be the killer? That's the fundamental error in this case. That's how you figure out rape murders is what you. Yeah, that is. He said, what happened here is a big question mark. This case is a big mystery.

We don't know anything. Okay. By the way, the Mary testifies. She's in her 80s. So they told her, when the jury comes in, you don't have to stand up. Like everyone, you can sit. And she stood up anyway. She said, if everyone else is standing, I think I'll stand too.

She felt weird. She testified about everything. Kim Wagner testified. Gina Malone, his now ex-wife testifies about. all the shit that's bad about asking the mother to say the dead father did it. Tim or Tom testifies. He says, I guess to make it look like she got around that would be my only, you know, that's probably why he said it, meaning asking to say he fucked her too.

And then he asked me again, he said, you believe me, right? I didn't know what to say. And then he said, after Tim was arrested, he just said, I need a strong alibi or I'm going to prison. They bring in the defense expert who says if you magnify better, it makes it completely, the whole thing completely different. The defense closing is, quote, it's easy to make the assumption that this pretty young woman would never have anything to do with Mr. Bass.

Look at him. He's gross. But just because someone hadn't seen them together, doesn't mean they hadn't been together at some point. This is an investigation based on the faulty assumption that this is a sexual assault, and it may not well have been a sexual assault. So the verdict, somehow now it's six men and six women. I don't know if the people left.

Alternates came in. They deliberate for over a day. Jesus. One juror said when we go in to deliberate, we had to turn in to be investigators and attorneys, too. And we went through everything. We had posters on the wall and maps. And we went through everything just like the attorney did. One juror estimated maybe a quarter of the panel thought there was reasonable doubt when they first got into the room.

one juror said teenage girls can sneak out at night. Maybe there was a secret relationship. She snuck out. She snuck out Thanksgiving night. Night before. But the jury comes back and they find him guilty. And returning special verdict forms, finding he committed first-degree rape and attempted rape and first-degree kidnapping and attempted kidnapping over the course of a murder. Prosecutor says, maximum, please, for this fucking guy.

The maximum, he's going by 1989 sentencing standards, by the way, because that's how it has to be, which are much less. The maximum is just under 27 years for this. Is that right? That's it. And the minimum sentence is 20 years, which is what they ask for at the defense. Victim impact statements. Jesus Christ. I mean, can you imagine?

I mean, it's ridiculous. They're coming in saying how much they loved her. And, you know, the step sister even said, except for our biology, you know, she's my husband. sister. Thirty years of anguish. Poor Rick Zender there. The boyfriend comes in and he brought some letters that they had written to each other from college back and forth.

And he said that he's ashamed that he hasn't kept him better touch with the family, but he said it was too painful after her death to keep in really close touch with them. And you feel like you're a suspect. That too. He said the nightmares came immediately. The worst part isn't dreaming that she's alive, but dreaming that she's dead. Because for those few moments in transition, as I always, open my eyes. There's hope her death was just a nightmare, but she's really gone.

The defense, though, mom comes up there, Tim's mom comes up there and says that he's a good kid. He never had never fucking did anything bad. He had good grades in school, never gave anybody any problems. She said he was found guilty in people's minds way before the trial even started and being sent and is being sent to prison on people's emotions, not any real evidence. The prosecution wants to solve this case, even if they convict an innocent person. Meanwhile, Tom was testifying against him and is completely thinks he's guilty. And Tim tried to besmirch your dead husband, lady? Yeah.

She doesn't do the fuck. Tim speaks. He says, first of all, he comes up with 10 pages of shit. And the judge says, one page. We're not doing 10 pages. Pick one out and do it. I'll listen to you for 45 minutes. Get the fuck out of here.

He said, I would first like. to say that I am 100% innocent of this crime. Furthermore, I don't believe I received a fair trial. I'm saying that though, a better man in me says I should say very little today and give this day to the Stavik family.

Sorry. But then he goes on and says he loved his father. They were best friends. But things haven't been the same since his father died in a four-wheeling accident in 2002. Hunting rivers, four-wheeling accidents. This place is crazy. He said he gave the eulogy at his father's funeral and wrote the obituary and made a memorial to him in his garage.

So what? Who cares? Yeah. He said this ex-wife to testify against him, you know, he said it's hard to take. He said he's never been arrested. He's been gainfully employed. He doesn't drink. He doesn't use drugs.

He's been married for nearly 30 years and raised three children, two of which with disabilities. He's a delivery driver. He's a good guy. He said, I try. He said he's been in jail since his arrest. He said, I tried to be respectful and kind in my year and a half that I've been there. And that's very hard to do when you're being accused of something like this. I'll continue to be this way as it's just the way I am.

I wish no will will toward anyone here, not even today, but I am having a hard time with this. Okay. So they took a 20-minute break. And then the judge said, quote, for 30 years you have lived free from the responsibility of your acts. but that life has been a lie and tragically it has caught your family, your mother, your brother, your ex-wife, and your children in its web,

you, sir, may fuck off just under 27 years, the absolute maximum he could get. The prosecutor said, I'd never seen a case that had an impact like this one did. People felt like they didn't have a sense of safety. It was the realization that were not all that safe

and that there's a monster who was really living among us. So the 27 years, like I said, it's a sentencing thing. So he could actually, he was only 52 at sentencing. He actually could get out. Even if he does 27, he'd be 79. Right.

That's possible. So they, by the way, they, 48 hours talked to his wife, Gina. And they said, Tim says he's an innocent man. What do you say? Gina said, quote, guilty as hell. I lived in prison for 28 years with him, and now it's his turn. That's what she said. Yep. Then there's the other thing. Tom says he wonders if his brother did any other murders.

Right. Which is the big question here. And they said possibly was he even going to kill those two women that met at the water park. Yeah. And Tom said, I think potentially more could be his next victims. So he thinks that he definitely did it. He appeals based on the co-worker being a state agent and all that. all that stuff there a hiccup in the middle of that one. And there's all these different legal strategy

than the Miller test and all this stuff that we have no time to get into. But they do tell him to go fuck himself on appeal. So that's nice there. He's told to go fuck himself. He says you shouldn't have excluded the diary and they're like, you're out of your fucking mind. Lack of evidence of kidnapping and rape.

They're like, no, there was plenty evidence. Lots of right. In 2025, there was an episode of murdered at first sight called Unforgetten or Unforgotten Mandy Stovic

and there's also you know 48 hours did one and a couple other things There's a scholarship fund that's been set up in her name at Mount Baker High

She's buried at the St. Joseph Mission Cemetery in Clipper, U.A. in Clipper Washington. Tim is at the Airway Heights Correction Center

outside Spokane and so he's got 320 months is what it is. That's what he's got. Appeals are exhausted, and as of the state, Supreme Court's denial, the conviction stands, and there you go.

Early earliest release date is 79. I think he has to do all of it. That's part of it. They said he's under, quote, close custody, meaning he has more supervision and less freedom of movement and limits on personal property and programs he can attend, according to the DOC spokesman. Sit here and fucking rot. They're taking...

They're taking a dead series with them. Oh, yeah. Fuck this guy. Everyone's bad. It's fuck this guy. So there you go, everybody. That is Acme, Washington and fucking crazy goddamn cold case of a story. It just seemed like we needed that kind of case this week.

A weird cold case and everything. But terrible fucking story. God damn awful. It's horrible that you get to live, though. I know. If you liked it, though, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you are listening to and give us five stars because it really helps drive us up the charts.

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And you get everything we put out, ad free as well. And on top of that, you get a shout out, which is right fucking now. Jimmy hit me with the names of the best goddamn people on earth who would never, ever, ever leave semen in us and then say that maybe our brothers did it too. So hit me with them right fucking now. This week, executive producer, Susan Deguaya on her pup rogue. She lost her pop. That's horrible.

That sucks. And Sierra Martin lost her child. This is a terrible week. Happy hours checking in in Brinkley, Arkansas again. That's horrifying. Jesus Christ. That's worse than the first. Two people lost the two of the most important things you can have as a person.

One was a person, which is way worse. Objectively, you know, that's horrifying. Holy shit. And not the, sorry dog person. I apologize. I think I'll lose too. Elena Zemmel. Elena Zemmel.

Robin Cooper. Did I say that? I think I did. Other producers this week. Say it twice. Yeah. Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Zoe Lovergrove.

Lover Grove, or is it Love Grove? I think it's Lover Grove. Neva, Neva, Granger. That's a fun name to say. Anna Hoover, Denise Walker, Tatum Lodge, Cassidy Black, Samantha Fletcher, Jennifer Moore. Rachel would know last name. Christine LeBron. C.S. Marina Nizzi. Sima colon Joe. Dylan Posen. Latoya Thomas. Angie Lyons. Bubadani. Carre or CARE or CARE. Amanda Holy. Holly. Holly. Hoh. Lurch Borgia. Megan Q. 107 Dildos. Keith. 7773. I hope that's what is that?

Hasword? I don't know. Meg Weeborg. Mandy Fruzen. Beth with no last name. Olive would no last name. Kyle Hendren. Rachel Darmetco.

Indira. Sarah Griffin. Gary Nelson. Robert Throop. Natalie Waters. Mandy de Goul. Angel with no last name. Simbalad.

Andrea D. D. Das. Neneka. What is this? Naca. H. Nika, perhaps? I don't know.

Rachel Francis, Preston Crostin, D. Nix, Megan Noth, Eric 1-7-76. Everybody with their PIN code this week. Dan Wade. Stacey Wagner, Milton Campbell, Cat Attorney, Beth Armstrong, morbid Corvid, Brian Williams. One of my favorite correspondence. Jordan Talbot, Denise Bailey, Jessica Brunson, perhaps related. Tyler would no last name. Trina would no last name. Margaret the vet. Carrie would know last name. Scotty Andrade. That's fun.

Carmen Webb. Natalie Berman Stomel. Stomel Hart. Ashley would know last name. Elizabeth Biden. Is there anybody? I don't know. Aaron Rockwell. Zon would know last name. Cade Schulte. Shulte. Brandon Rose. Lil Peggers. Yuck. Brianne Lawrence. Tuggy Smith. Also, yuck. Benjamin Horner. Maggie Madden, Ryan Hayashi, Nicole Williamson, Danielle Reed, Corey Beckland, Mandy Dale, Ashley Dake, or Deke, Dakey, Ryan Hanson, Kira Peterson, CLSS, Amanda Rogers, Patty would know the last name. Tanya G. Harry would know last name. G. Harry would know last name. Gail Wilson. Morgan would no last name. Lauren would know last name. Cinema Sin. Tara Greenwell, Isabel Tamayo. Jay would know last name.

Johnson, Laura Mayberry, Carrie Orgeron, Hannah Seaman. Okay, Saman, probably. Can't be Seaman. Mandy Dempsey, Candice Bishop, Jamie Tomes, Tomes, Tomes, Amanda Rapiteo, Repetto, Repetto, Janet Cross, Drennan, Rachel, Rochelle, Coontz, Coontz, C, Cy, Sieg, Sig, Okay, I get what you're doing. Sig Hill, you know what they want. Fuck you.

There's no way that's somebody's name. It's Cy Heil. No, it's not. No. Fuck off. It just got worse. Marchelle Polensky, Katie Diaz, Kenya Kay, Oliver Patrick, Brooks, Skivers, Skivers, Alaska Cat, James Lovelace.

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Jillian. Gillian or Gillian? Hallard. Jay Johnson, Alyssa Allison Burnett. Khalid, Khalid Omar. How about that?

Morg Vivos Docent. Grimm would know the last name. Kirby Bulger, D.K. Rindy. J.J. Lynn. I live in New Mexico and I hate it. Cory Mickelson. Phil Poop Dalla. Jessica.

What? Jessica Villarreal. Kirsten with a J. You guess it. Melissa Strayhan. Elizabeth Hammond, Tommy Morris, David Macek, Rennessa Iri, Irie, Ear, Erie, Charlotte LaMaster, Michael Ivy, Cuddle Cups. That sounds fun. Megan would know the last name, Angela Barclay, or Barclay, depending.

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