Small Town Murder - Puppet Master Killer - Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

This week, in Grosse Pointe Park, Michigan, when a successful woman from the suburbs is found, brutally murdered in her car, in a Detroit alley, police originally think it could've been a robbery gone wrong. Until they discover her husband's secret life, as a BDSM dungeon master, running kinky sex parties out of the basement of his business. He also has 2 girlfirends, and an entire double life, complete with plans for a live-in threesome relationship. But does that mean he's a murderer??   Along the way, we find out that we can't tell if some bands aren't famous, or if we're just too old to know who they are, that you really need to be careful who you bring to be your murder helper, and that wanting to keep women as sex slaves doesn't automatically make you a murderer, but it doesn't help!!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!! Check us out on VIDEO Wednesday and Friday evenings on Netflix! www.netflix.com/smalltownmurder Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

This week, in Gross Point Park, Michigan, the horrible discovery of a brutally murdered woman in her car looks like it might have been common street crime until detectives discover her seemingly upstanding husband's affairs and secret life as a BDSM dungeon master. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogall. I'm here with my co-host.

I'm Jimmy Wisman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another wild crazy, absolutely insane addition of small-town murder you have chosen correctly if this is your first episode. Buckle up. It's going to be a wild, weird one. So enjoy, everybody. Let's just say that. Before we get to all of that, definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com. You need to get your tickets for live shows and merchandise.

There's all sorts of new merch up. Church of the Octopus is up so you can check that out. do that. Get yourself tickets to live shows here. Next shows with tickets available is going to be after the summer. September 18th in Milwaukee, September 19th in Minneapolis. Milwaukee, those are almost sold out. Get your tickets now at the PAPS. Minneapolis, get those damn tickets. Let's go. Don't make, don't let Milwaukee punk you. Don't tell you, Daly. Milwaukee, they're going to make fun of you for the whole two more years until we come back. So you don't want to do that. And then, of course, October 3rd in Dallas, October, October,

16th and 17th in San Jose in Sacramento and November 13th and 14th in Terry Town and Boston. So get in there, get your tickets. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you do that. Also, of course, listen to crime in sports, which is right now we're doing a

long series on Robert Rozier who killed upwards of 10 people and was in this crazy cult. There's about 10 minutes of sports in a multi-part series. So it's more about cults and murder. So check that out. And also, your stupid opinions because it's just hilarious.

Because it's amazing. It's just funny and a great show. So do that. And then also get yourself Patreon. Oh yeah. Do that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month or above, you are going to get

every damn thing we put out. As soon as you subscribe, you're going to get almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Huge catalog to binge on. And then after that, every other week you get new episodes, Two of them, as a matter of fact. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get them all.

This week, what we're going to do for crime and sports. It's theme park disasters. We're going to go back to that again. Those are so much fun. We're going to do that. Then for small town murder, and by the way, we have the prisoner dating game coming up in a couple of these. Coming up. It is going to be viewer's choice on this one.

Okay. Do you want to talk about the crash, the McKenzie Shurillo mess, or do you want to talk about Corey Richens and her sentencing? and there's so much more that didn't come out during the trial about what was going on that night of the murder and all that. Which one would you like to hear? They're both insane. Do we just do both? That's what I would like to do, but we'll do them successive weeks, and then after that'll be the prisoner dating game either way.

But do that, that'll be a poll up on Patreon. So, patreon.com slash crime in sports, and you get everything we put out, everything all ad-free, all the shows we put out. And then on top of that, you get a shout out at the end of the show where Jimmy will be. Try to read your name, but we'll see how that goes. Probably not. There you go. That said, disclaimer time, everybody. Yeah.

This is a comedy show. We're comedians, and we're going to make jokes. Now, people are also going to be murdered because the show is called small town murder. It would be weird if nobody died. You know what I mean? It's going to be false advertisement. So you go, well, how does that work? How do you do that?

Tastefully is how you do it. That's right. What we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why is that? Because we're assholes. Yeah, but... But we're not scumbags. There you have it.

That's all. That's how it works. It's very simple. There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of. The fact that someone goes, I think I can get away with this. I'm going to put this off... Bet you can't. Or even if you're trying to, we're still going to make fun of you.

You know, small town police forces and murderers go free. We make fun of that kind of thing. It's obvious there. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a crazy wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be for you, but I would check it out. out, you know, see how it goes. Either way, no complaining later.

Let's just say that. We warned you. So that said, I think it's time, everybody to sit back. What do you say here? Clear the lungs, arms to the sky, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay.

Let's go on a trip, shall we? We have to. We're going to Michigan, everybody. Yeah. which when you hear this episode, we'll be in Michigan that weekend. We will. Tickets are sold out. Sorry about that.

But probably not great planning. Maybe you plan it out so, you know, to do this and then it's sold out. It's space to promote James. Yeah, I should have done that earlier. Well, I guess not. It's sold out either way. So thank you for buying those tickets. It's a long time ago.

This is Gross Point Park, Michigan. Yeah. And there's a lot of gross points. What is that? There's Gross Point, which is one town. Then there's a bunch of other gross point. Point towns and Gross Point Park is one of those towns. Probably named after somebody, right?

I believe so. Yeah, we'll talk about that when we get into the history a little bit here. It's in southeastern Michigan. It's only 15 minutes to Detroit from here. Oh, it's right out there. Just a burb of Detroit. 45 minutes to Washington Township, Michigan, our last Michigan episode, episode 657. Comedy of Horrors, that is the one where the guy was having the affair with the German O'Pair, the 19-year-old, and she came over and testified against him, some horribly embarrassing shit. It was a wild episode.

This is in Wayne County, just like Detroit, Area Code 313. Now, a little bit of history of this town. Before it was a city, it was incorporated as the Village of Fairview, which I guess was a chunk of Gross Point Township, which is another area here. It's from 1850 to 1900. They knocked down all these woods and all that kind of thing. and basically Detroit businessmen bought up all the waterfront. That's how it worked. Okay.

Yeah? Yeah. So for a while, Gross Point was Detroit's summer resort, basically. So they had giant houses and... Summer resort. Yeah, it became like the Hamptons, basically, for Detroit people. Reviews of this town. Okay.

Here's five stars. Best city to raise a family. Exclamation point. Real excited about it. Excellent public schools. Two waterfront parks. Pools, splash pad, private movie theaters. Private movie.

Private. What does that mean? I don't know what that is. I don't know how you get them private. Yeah, then how do you go there? Person who's reviewing current resident on niche. How do you? Why are you advertising it?

Shut the fuck up. Yeah, it's private, damn it. I can't go there. Beautiful homes that residents take pride in keeping up. Public service is second to none. Oh. She just described. Everything's perfect.

Three stars, it's a nice place to raise a family, but lacking in things to do. Better than the other gross point communities in terms of diversity, but still has the same bourgeois feel and pressure. Yeah, upper middle class, rich people bullshit. Here is three stars. This is fun. Very short. The weather is okay. Pretty average.

Okay, but what about the place? Nope, the weather's okay. And if there's one thing you'd say for Detroit, it's that the weather sucks. That's even if you loved everything about it, you'd be like, it's cold as fuck in the winter, it's hot as shit in the summer. The weather's tough here. You know, that's what's tough. You've got to be a hearty some bitch to survive Detroit. Here is two stars, finally, not a very safe or friendly community.

Oh. Okay. Now, here is one that this person, it's way too big to write, to read all of it, but they have a lot of opinions. Okay. this person says that it's a very aesthetic place to live. The neighborhoods are very nice. The schools are great. There's lots of large trees.

And there's great places to walk around and yada, yada, yada. Okay. So there's that the good. Now the bad part. And this is twice as long as three times as long as a good part. Okay. Gross Point borders Detroit, which in my honest opinion is the, in all capital letters, ghetto nucleus.

Okay. Okay, this guy could have been the murderer in our story this week when we get to that because he tries to use this. They say Detroit suburbs are the most segregated in America. And seeing how nice gross point is, knowing how close Detroit is, is kind of amazing. There are actually fences blocking off streets that at one time were open. Being so close to Detroit stifles gross point from being in any good retail and restaurants, or bringing in any good retail in restaurants. I think because they're afraid all the Detroit.

riffraff will come in and frequent it. Just say what you mean. Say what you want. I don't blame them, but all that does is force gross pointers to drive 20 or 30 miles to suburbs like Troy or Rochester to go to places like Trader Joe's or a nice target or P.F. Chang's, as opposed to the shit P.F. Changs. That's the ghetto P.F. Changs. Nobody goes to that one. The feeling that I get from this person is real.

strong. You know, as it goes, like, the visual pictures come in clear. I know what kind of car they drive now. Like, I know it all in my head. If you have, all in all, if you have to live in the Detroit area, Gross Point offers a really aesthetic neighborhood. Neighborhoody experience you will not get in any other suburb of Detroit. It's kind of expensive, though. On a side note, I sometimes feel bad always dogging Detroit. But hey, I wouldn't if it wasn't such a pit. I'm rooting for Detroit to come back. back, but it's not looking good. You know how far they've come in the last 25 years since the real estate? It's pretty actually amazing. Every time we go there, I'm blown away with how beautiful Detroit is. And it's

they're really doing decent things with it, especially with all the auto companies going belly up. None of the citizens have much education or willpower. Everyone always seems to say they need help. Why can't they help themselves? I mean, how much effort does it take to pick up the trash from around your house or

get a gallon of paint or cut your grass or not rob somebody. They need some good, here it is finally, they need some good role models, not T.I. or the three six mafia. Oh, boy. So they finally kind of said what they were getting at the whole time. I knew what they meant. Which is, yeah, we all know what everybody, what they mean there. Dated ass references.

Why don't you just say, stop looking up to Elvis? Fuck you, dude. Stop looking up to fucking Quincy Jones, please. Like, what are you talking about? Wow. People in this town. And T.I. And T.I. Are three six mafia.

Yeah. If they're looking up to them, all they'll get is Oscars for best fucking music and shit like that. Don't those guys have Oscars? What are we talking about? T.I. Is now a comedian for a Christ's sake. He gets to do anything he wants. Yeah. That either means his career went really well or really poorly in his financial planning. I think he's just very bored and very wealthy. People in this town. 11,0529.

So not a huge place, not a tiny place. More women than men by a long shot. 53.1% women. Damn. Interesting. I think those are divorces and they got the house. They got everything. That has to be it, right?

Median age 42.2, so a couple years older than the national average, but kind of suburb years of you take the kids out to the suburbs and that's how it goes. It's 62% married here. above the national average, less single with children. It's married people with big houses and big lawns and, you know, a couple of overprotected kids. Race in this town, 84.7% white, 9.3% black, 1.9% Asian and 1.2% Hispanic. So religion in this town, 42% of the people here are religious.

50-50 is the national average. And the most here is Catholic, but it's not by a huge amount or anything. thing like that, doesn't seem like it's a big deal. But as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the Great Lakes region. Why not? Unemployment here also about average. Median household income here is where it differs from the rest of the country. This is the disparaging part.

Yes, $69,000 is the rest of the country. Here, $123,08,000 is the median household income. So they're doing great. It's expensive, too, though. Cost of living. Cost of living 100 is average. Here it's only 92, so you go, that's nice, but the housing is the high part. It's outrageous, yeah.

Median home cost here, $438,500 bucks. It's not that bad. It's expensive, but I'm impressed. It could be worse, you know what I mean? So if we've convinced you, damn it, that you're tired of having TI as a role model or whatever the fuck you want to move here for. A bunch of your kids looking up to. Three-six Mafia.

Juicy J. We have for you the Gross Point Park Mission. Michigan Real Estate Report. Okay, average two-bedroom rental here, $1,450, which is above the national average, but not outrageous. Not by much. No, we've seen much worse here. First house that we have, and this is like about the cheapest thing you're going to find here, is basically a condo. It's like a condo apartment complex where the, you know, attached houses, doors next to each other, that sort of thing.

It's a two-bedroom, two-bath, so technically T-Bull for all your B-holes there. 1256 square feet, so, you know, not tiny, not a little box, decent size. No land run, obviously, because you're in a complex. $217,900 bucks. Okay. That's not terrible. I mean, if you want to live there. To own an apartment?

If you're trying to get into the school district or something, because it's good, that makes sense. $2,000 price cut last week. Oh, two grand, huh? Next up, five-bedroom, five-bath, T-Bull for each and every beehole, 4,203 square feet. It's a big white house with, you know, the black shutters and the pillars in the front. And it's a nice house. And you can see by the neighbors, like there's a nice house next door.

They have a big driveway. It's a pretty damn nice place here. 948,000 bucks for that. Little pricey. And then finally, another five-bedroom, five-bathes. And your be holes are covered today, everybody. 4,630 square feet. This is on a half-acre lot.

This is a, it's like a brick house. It's a different style house than the other one. It's not bad. Built in 1978, inside, very nice. Looks like it's been, I like the way they have like this long kind of arcing staircase. It's pretty cool. It's a nice house. $1,300,000 for that, though.

15 minutes from Detroit, you're doing all right. It's not bad. You're going to pay for it, though. Things to do in this town. Okay. Here we go. I mean, you can go to Detroit. It's right there.

That's something to do. Plenty of sports and that sort of thing. Or stick around and go to the breakaway music festival. Oh, boy. And see a bunch of people I have never heard of. How could they? I don't. This is right next to Detroit.

I don't know. This is one of those things where I look at this list and go, okay, I know I'm old now. And I don't know every new artist that's coming out the first minute they're out. You know what I mean? It takes a while for me to catch up to shit because I'm busy and not looking for that. Sure. But I've never heard of any of these people. So I feel like it's either I'm older than I thought or these are a bunch of people that no one's heard of.

I don't know. I'm going to run them by you and you tell me if you've heard of any of them. Everyone out there listening, here's two 40-something-year-old men trying to decipher whether these are popular new artists that we've just never heard of or nobody's. This is fun for everybody. Okay. Canabless? Nope. Nope. It's a chick.

I saw the picture. Daniel Allen. No. I bet he has a guitar, though. I guarantee he plays country of some sort. DoD. D. No.

Like, dot, dot, like B-O-B, but D-O-D. Dr. Fresh with a C-H. S-C-A. Fretch. Well, with an S-C-H. Fischer. Fisher. just like you're a fisherman,

Fisher. Gigantic nightmare without the eye and nightmare. That's the only difference. All the vowels taken out of nightmare. Gigantic, all the vowels you need, nightmare, take all the vowels out. This whole thing sounds like a gigantic nightmare to me. Now, I hope

there's not like 18 year olds listening going, you never heard of fucking gigantic nightmare. There's nobody that's ever heard of them. Grab it. One word with a zero. grab it. I'll put that together in my head. That's amazing.

It's Murph. Oh, well, hello there, Murph. I think, uh, maybe not. I think you're just thinking of Murph the Surf from Crime and Sports. No. No good. No, meaning I know you. K.

No good. No good. No good. Cream with a K. I don't like that. I don't like that. Lost Boy J, all one word. Uh-huh.

What? I don't even know. F-H-R-V-A. Farva? Farva, maybe? Parva? Parva? Like your parvo?

Like your dog gets? I don't know. A large farva? Skilla. S-K-I-L-A-H. Uh-huh. Subtronics. I've heard of that, right?

Okay. I don't know. I thought that was. a brand of like turntable. I got a nice subtronics. I got a realistic, but you guys... I swear I've heard of that. Is it with an X?

No. No X, no Z. Subtronics. One word. Twin sick, one word. Okay. Next up, two friends. I'm so mad.

How has no one ever called their group two friends before? How's that now gone up by the wayside for the last 150 years of recorded music? Yeah, two friends. Kid and Play could have done that. We're just two friends. Anybody could have done it.

Simon and Garfunkel, for Christ's sake. Kid and Play. Hello, Detroit. We are two friends. Yeah, public enemy could have been that. Just Chuck D. and Flav of Flav. Two friends. Did you say Simon and Garfuckle?

Yeah. It's all through the years. It's different people. Whoever's been a team. It doesn't matter. It would have been much easier to remember them, too. I'm sure somebody went, Simon. Who's that other guy?

He's two friends. The two friends. The two friends. And Chris Cross could have done that. that there's already Christopher Cross. How many duets are there? Duos. There's a million of them.

Wookie. W.U.K.I. I guess that's wookie. Y. D.G. Your dick, Roo. I have no idea what that stands for. I don't know. Blue J. All one word, but the U has umlots over it. So that makes it different.

Is that French? What is that? Cota Leone. And the O and Cota, which is KH, by the way, has a line through it. like, you know, like some foreign language. Low-key B2B Ronan. And that also has a slash through it. Yeah, they've done something fascinating with. Now they all want some fascinating letter in there.

They invent letters and numbers and shit and just stick them in their names. Matt B. And then finally, rink with two eyes. Rink. Like skating? Yeah, but with two eyes. Yeah. Festival tickets start at for this line.

This is why I mean, that's why I was asking if we're just old and these people are famous. $155. How dare you? That's more expensive than Disneyland. That's really expensive. $155 to see, I don't even know who those are. To see twin sick and lost boy Jay and cream with a cake. Okay.

Enrique, crime rate in this town. We're interested in here. Property crime actually just under the number. national average, but not too far under. Violent crime, murder rape robbery, and, of course, assault, about half the national average. So it's pretty safe place. Yeah. That said, let's talk about some murder, shall we?

Yeah, let's do it. Let's get into this, because, woof, this is twisted. Okay. $155? $155. I was shocked when I saw that. There's got to be somebody famous in that, right? I had to look it up on another site to make sure it wasn't.

like an error and it was $155 and they just fucked it up. And it was $155 everywhere. It's $155 to get into that. That's absurd. Ridiculous. All right. Now, we are going to, our story, a lot of it's going to take place in the 2011, 2011, 2012 range. So pretty much now.

I mean, different operating system on your iPhone is pretty much it. Otherwise, it's everything is the same, social media. It's probably an elderly thing to say, right? Because my son was three then and he just graduated high school. Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying like Life is about the same. It's about the same as far as like if you're sitting on your couch,

maybe you're watching cable instead of streaming. Yeah. But you probably watch Netflix even then. Jeans just got tight and came back to what that size was. Yeah, they just go like this every once in a while, which we just keep going along with because they're like, well, fuck, we've been selling them tight jeans for three years. And let's make it baggy now. I guess we're making loose now. It's been long enough where they threw out all their baggy.

your jeans, so they won't have those to fall back on. Now I can sell them baggy jeans again. We're going with short ones again now. Short denim is a thing now. I've seen people in jeans shorts now and I'm like, okay, I know. I'm not doing that. Here's things we've retired permanently. Jorts. Mullets. I'm not doing that. People with mullets, you're an asshole. You're not fashionable. You're a jerk off. Smollets and jorts are two things that we'll never bring back and we shouldn't. And if the kids are doing it, that's they're wrong. LBC Moore Skinner for a second. No, it's the children who are wrong. That's that moment. Okay. So there is a woman that we need to talk about here. Jane Joanne Inglebrecht.

That is her maiden name, Inglebrecht. She will have a married name later on. She's born in 1955. She's from Mount Clemens, Michigan, which we've talked about. I think in our last Michigan episode. Yeah. The husband was from, the killer was from Mount Clemens, I believe, if I'm not mistaken.

He had like him and his father at a shop there or something. Metal shop, yeah. The metal shop, yes, metal shavings where they found, mm-hmm, there we go.

Okay. So he's got a mom named, or she has a mom named Lorraine, a dad named John. She has three sisters. So it sounds like four girls, raising. Yeah.

So, yeah, she grows up in this area and went to school there. everybody says out of the four sisters, she's the responsible one. Oh, she's the good one. She's the smart one and the responsible one.

And, you know, the one that keeps everything together. There's always one somewhere in there. Yeah. Yep. There's always one. And that kid gets, you know, gets kind of adulticized too young and fucking parents.

Yeah, it ruins us. Yep. Parents start to put things on them and tell them their problems. And there's an experience there. I have a little bit of experience with that. college here. She went to Central Michigan University in Mount Pleasant and got her bachelor's degree in business administration. And then she went to the University of Detroit Mercy, which she gets her master's in business administration.

Wow. She's not doing herself any favors if she doesn't want to be the responsible one. That's what I mean. She's doing all the responsible shit. Even that, business administration. She's like the one who's going to make sure. masters of it. Make sure all the paperwork is right and everything is done correctly.

That's wild. So she has, that's two degrees and she's done all sorts of things, gets a job pretty easily after that with her background. And she's a charming personable person with a very good educational background and a real sharp way of doing things. So who the hell wouldn't hire her? She sounds good. In the early 80s, she meets a man.

Yeah. She meets a man that she's going to spend the rest of her life with. and she is just locked in on him. He is Robert Michael Bashara, B-A-S-H-A-R-A. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a better way to deal with your cat's litter box with Boxicat. Boxicat.com. Absolutely.

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when you head to small. That's 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com slash STM. Now back to the show. He goes by Bob. That's important. So we got Bob and Jane here. Now, he's born in 1957. He's like a year and a half younger than her, but same ballpark.

He has a different upbringing here. He is kind of like, kind of Detroit royalty, the best way to put it here. Yeah. His father was George Norman Bashar Jr. Who went to the University of Detroit Law School and was an attorney and then was a judge on the Michigan Court of Appeals from 1967 to 1996. So 30 years sitting on the court of appeals. So he knows everybody. Yeah.

there is to know in Detroit, which means that young Bob gets to know everybody and has an air of my shit doesn't stink. Of course. Yeah. Would you rather have your family be that guy, the judge that everybody knows, or like the local celebrity businessman? Do you know what I mean? Like the carpet king of whatever.

Yeah. I don't think it matters because they hang out in the same place. Yeah. They know each other. Yeah. They go to the same fucking parties. They probably, you know, finger the same children and whatever the hell these rich fucks do in their basements.

I bet you the carpet king is the cooler guy, right? Well, probably. Because he can't believe that he's successful. Well, he's not buttoned up like this guy. This guy had to go to law school. He had to do everything right. The carpet king does like commercials where he wears a crown. You know what I mean?

And he like, he drives a stupid golf car. He's wearing a suit of carpet and with a crown on. And he's like, you know, come on down to the carpet king. That's the lowest price is ever. And he like shoots guns off and shit. He's got a testeroast to easy. Testerosa easy go that he drives on the... That's great.

That's exactly probably what it is, too. Yeah. So that's how that goes. So he grows up kind of a different way than a lot of people grow up. His dad was a member of the board of governors at Wayne State University. Just sits on a bunch of boards as rich people do. We don't realize that, but rich people, if you're like a rich person who is in like business and public service, People just put you on boards because it looks good for their company to have a board of people that are famous.

And you get a salary for that. You don't have to do shit. You have to go like once a month. You have to like sit at a meeting for an hour or not even pay attention. It's just that your name is on the board of directors and that's all they want. But you get like being rich just like compounds itself. It perpetuates being rich. It's wild.

Eddie Bash's family is so paid. And he was on so many boards in Arizona. He ran a fucking grocery store. Eddie Basha is a local Arizona businessman who ran a chain of grocery stores and was kind of famous. No one outside of Arizona's ever heard. No, no, no, no. Yeah, but that's what I said it was a chain of grocery stores. Yeah, I was like, we definitely have.

They even gave a fucking high school, James. There's a high school named after the man. Bashes? Basha. That's not cool. You can't name a high school after a chain of grocery stores in the air. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. They fucking did it.

You go to Bashes. What are you working the produce section? What are you talking about? Basha. No. They teach you how to run a register. It's real good. It's the silliest shit. Oh, man. Now, so, yeah, rich people, their shit gets perpetuated. They do rich people shit. Yeah.

Now, he's also, they're Lebanese, Lebanese American. So anybody who's Lebanese, he's like the most important Lebanese guy in town. So he's in all those groups and they all worship him. And every Lebanese American social club in the entire area has, you know, You know, he's got a plaque with him up there, the most important guy. He, apparently, he's described later on as a beloved public servant and a pillar of the Lebanese American community. Wow. That's how his obituary describes him.

By the way, it's still now, the Michigan Court of Appeals has his portrait up in the lobby because he was one of the judges. Today. Still, well, they go up, they stay forever. You go to like the one in Arizona, there's people from the 50s up there. Sure. They're flat tops and shit. So, now, Bob.

takes advantage of this, the son Bob. He's not going to, as any kid would. He's not. He's not. He's 16. He's speeding, drinking a bottle of booze. And no one's fucking with him. You know what I mean?

He's a well-known judge, too. I mean, he's a really well-known judge. And so he grew up basically acting like that and telling people, making sure to tell people who his dad was at the, you know, soonest possible interval. Yeah. He'd get right in there. He went to Gross Point South High School there. He went to Albion College.

I don't know what that is. I'm not a big college guy, so I don't know, but it's a private liberal arts school southwest of Lansing. And from what everybody says, he's not real good in school. No?

He goes and he gets by, but he's not ringing any academic bells for anybody or anything like that. But he's a real outgoing guy. That's good. And we'll find out that, too. He's socially, he gets around. He's a real social kind of a guy and a climber and that kind of a guy.

And he's a big guy too. A big guy, you know, six feet tall. Later on, he'll be, you know, 250 pounds. He's a big guy. When he's younger, he's not that big, though. He's, you know, six feet tall, 190 pounds when he meets Jane and she falls for him and everything like that. And he's got personality and he comes from a good family.

and he's fun. He went to college and he's got, he's outgoing. So there's really no reason why Jane wouldn't like him. You know what I mean? And he's a handsome guy. I've seen pictures like they, they bold together and shit like that. Like they had a, you know,

they had a fun life together it looked like. They get married about 1986. They're going to have two kids pretty quickly. Sure. They have a daughter named Jessica, who will end up being a nurse later on. Then they have a son, of course, because, you know, Bob thinks highly of

himself. Bobby Jr. Gotta have a Bobby Jr. Gotta have him. If that's a crime and sports reference, because athletes tend to name their kid Jr.

or their name Jr., and that will immediately send them into crime, we found. We don't know why. Immediate. Yeah. So Robert Jr., he'll later

go to the University of Michigan. Wolverines there where he can be mad at Jim Harbaugh for the next century. Probably friends with him. For destroying the program. Now,

Jane is a busy one. Yeah. She's very busy as the family gets going here. I mean, everybody says she is, she runs the house and does everything. All right. Talk about what her, what her duties, for lack of a better term are. She's busy, man. This is a lot. She drove the kids to school. She drove the kids to practice. This is, by the way, in addition to having a high-powered corporate job. What does she do? She will find out. She's like, you know, I don't know, whatever business people do. Yeah.

Who knows? Honestly, if you tell me, like, they do, like, business administration or whatever, I don't even know what that is. I really don't. I'm a comedian. I don't know shit about anything, like, legitimate, like, business world stuff. We just hire people to make sure that we don't end up in prison. Like, that's, we don't know what we're doing at all.

But business administration is just, like, the running of the business. What does that mean? What do they do? Like, what's their day consist of? I know they run it, but they come in, they sit down, and then what? There's a big desk. Then they administrate things. They administer things, and they tell people.

I don't know. It's what I mean. They come in and they sit down. And that's what? Like, what's their actual day? I can't think of it. I want to see you in a corporate environment. That would be amazing.

Hi, I'm here, now what? Now what? I'm so impatient with shit, too. You label it, then you ship it. Yeah, that's what you do. I'd just be adjusting the nameplate on my desk a whole lot, making sure it was straight, like, hmm, okay. There it is. Oh, God.

That would drive me crazy to do anything. That's my nightmares to be like in court. Even to be like an executive, it would be a fucking nightmare. They don't do anything. No, even that's the answer. But they have to still go there in the morning. What they do is they go there. They read the Wall Street Journal and they have somebody bring them coffee all day.

And then there's meetings, I know. I don't know what the meetings are about. Yeah, but the meetings don't do anything. That's what I mean. I don't even know what they're doing, but there's meetings all the time they seem to have to be in. This meeting could have been an email. That's probably 90% of their meetings. I think so.

I think it's just people who need to feel important probably. Yeah. I've seen executives of very powerful companies doing fucking nothing all day. Yeah, I don't think they do much. They do a lot of golf involved. There's a lot of lunches. There's a lot of entertaining other company executives. That's it.

Yeah. Lunch seems to be a big point of convention. Lunch seems to be real popular. That seems to be the main thing. And sometimes they don't come back after lunch. So in addition to that, she also organized Jane does, the Gross Point South High School's Mother's Club and became she was the president of the school's mothers club after a while. President of the Mothers.

She just goes right there. I don't know what that would consist of either, by the way. I don't know. I don't know what you'd have to do with that. She ran bake sales. She went to church every Sunday at St. Michael's Episcopal Church. And also was at a bunch of the church committees during the week. I don't know where she had time for all this shit.

This is, it's just talking. It's a lot of talking about doing some things. It's crazy. I don't know how anybody, like I couldn't do all this. I don't have time for all this. I don't have time to do normal things. Like, this is insane. Those committees, too, you just go there and go, what are we doing?

I don't know. What are we meeting about? Well, we're going to organize the bake sale. Well, fucking organize it. Let us know when it is. I don't know. Pick a guy to organize. What are we talking about?

12 people here to talk about a bake sale. What are we talking about? 12 people to sign how much a brownie costs? Yeah, what are we doing? Yeah. Oh, we have to parse out who's baking what. We'll fucking figure it out. Who cares?

Sign up. Who know? Yes, put a sheet up. If someone already wrote their name under brownies, you can't make brownies. Move on to Rice Krispy treats. Fuck out of this.

Move over to lemon tarts and shut the fuck up. So, yeah, she's running that shit. She's all at all these committees, taking her kids to school, president of the mother's club, full-time high-powered corporate executive job. Bacon, raspberry bars.

She's busy. She's busy, man. She's real busy. She also, did like all the there was a fundraiser at Gross Point South and she worked the door

for three hours to volunteer to do that to take tickets at the door. She's just a, you know, a really involved person. Yeah. Now she's also the house

breadwinner as well. Oh. Yeah, that's the other thing. She's bringing home all the money. He has endeavors as we'll get into, but they're not a solid

paycheck type of endeavor. They're more... How about that? spotty. Yeah. She spent the bulk of her career at a company called Mercury Marine, which is the boat engine engine division of Brunswick Corporation. Yeah.

Are they the people that make the bowling pins and shit? It's probably the company. That's probably the umbrella, but she worked for like Mercruiser and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Outboard outboard motors. That's impressive. I was wondering, though, does the Brunswick Corporation umbrella boat manufacturing, bowling pin things?

It seems like it's a big one. They're headquartered in Fondelac, Wisconsin, but they have a lot of shit going on in Michigan, and that's where she works here. To begin with. Harley Davidson only works is only a company now because of Mercury. Because they were right there on the lake, they had the shipping shit, and the guys that owned the company for Mercury gave them parts to build all the motorcycles. Mercury on there and Mercruiser motors. That's one of the biggest companies. in the Midwest up there. It's a big, big, huge company.

Interesting. Well, yeah, she worked there for a while. She's probably making a shit pile of money. Well, then she moved over, which means to move over, she probably got more money to do that, I would assume. She moved over to a company called Kema Services, K-A-E-M-A services. I don't know if it's an acronym or what, but it's an energy consulting and testing firm with offices in Detroit. That's awesome. That's money. That's a lot of money. Anything you put the word energy in there. It's huge. It's going to be. It's money.

Yeah. Yeah. She was their senior marketing manager. Mm-hmm. Again, I don't know what that is or what that does. I mean, I assume it has to do with marketing. She might say, okay, campaign, you know. I don't know what kind of marketing.

The word senior implies she's in charge of that. Yeah. I don't know what kind of marketing you need for a consulting and testing firm, energy consulting and testing firm. It doesn't seem like, it seems like you're marketing to very specific people, not like putting an ad on the football game. Lunches, James. So many lunches.

Yeah. She's making six figures. She's got stock options. She's got a huge swelling 401K with hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. She has like her insurance has like a like a can't work policy where she'll get like a, all this shit, man. All built in. And that's, I think, through her company as well.

She's working somehow working 12 hours a day and also doing all the other shit. I don't know how she has time to do that, but that's remarkable. I'll tell you what, James, if you are working a day job and it is making you six figures and everything's going great, that alone makes you smile and excited to go to work the next day. Yeah, it probably puts a bounce in your step. Yeah. Does it, though? I'm the type of person that I could, no matter what I'm doing, if my job was to eat ice cream, I'd be so fucking tired of eating ice cream in four days. Like, I'd be like, this sucks.

Why do I have to eat all the ice cream? I'm terrible like that. I don't like work. I'm trashed, though. So I came. I only had one great job in my life. So I worked that fucking job with a big smile on my face, happy to do it all the time because it was.

You never showed up though. You're gone now. You were the worst employee ever. I was so bad at it. But when I was there, fuck did I love it? Yeah, that's true. You had a positive attitude, I guess.

I certainly sidestepped it. much as I could. Well, that's understandable and natural. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I've never, I never, besides comedian, I never really had a job I liked. Yeah. And when I first got the job, terrible job. I was losing my fucking mind, how lucky I was.

Yeah. Every man in my family told me I made more money than them. I was 22. Now this, we can't get sick of because it was so gradual. You know what I mean? Oh, I'll do this every day. This wasn't a goddamn job for a long time. And this was something that we were forcing on the world.

So there's a different vibe to do it. So while she's doing all this, which sounds like running a family and a business and a marketing division and all this type of shit, Bob has other things that he's doing. What's he doing? Bob's endeavors and business endeavors and his public life are interesting. He went into real estate in the 1980s. Yeah. That's where he decided to try to do. That's, again, a lot of times what rich people do.

Yeah. Well, I have all this money and I don't really want to work. I don't think my real estate license. No, no, no, no. He buys real estate, but he's not a real estate agent. Okay, that's crazy. He's just buying strip malls and shit like that to turn them over and, you know, trying to do stuff like that. By the early 2000s, he's got a lot of rental properties around the Detroit Gross Point Park border area, including a complex along Mac Avenue that we're going to kind of concentrate on here.

So at this point, you know, 2000s as they go on, now he's 250 pounds, salt and pepper and a strip mall owner. Yeah, it changed a lot. Yeah. It changed, all changed. Entirely different. Yep. But his name helps him in all this type of thing. Let's say he has a zoning beef or something.

That helps. He knows people in all these offices. He knows people who are in charge of things and shit like that. Starts getting lawsuits about being a slum lord, shit like that. Yeah, you know, slum lord accusations. These are mostly commercial buildings. There are some apartments, I believe, but it's mostly a commercial complex. But a lot of times when you buy a commercial complex, it's up for sale for a reason.

You know what I mean? And it's rarely because we're tired of making so much money. I mean, if you were just thriving, just, you know, money heaving out of that place, why would you sell it? You don't have to do anything. Right. It's why does it? It needs work or there's nobody over here. That's it.

So, yeah, so here he is. Now he's $2.50, salt and pepper hair, wearing, always wears polo shirts. Yeah. He's that guy. And one friend of his put it this way that he, quote, drank kind of a lot. Ha! We know this guy. You know that guy.

Yeah. He's just a drunk business guy with the red face and the drink in his hand. Kind of a lot. Yeah. Kind of a lot. Some of his rental properties made some money. Some of them didn't make any money. Right.

So he's not thriving. He's just kind of fucking around because he doesn't have to be the guy who pays the bills because his wife brings home a huge salary. And it does sound like, if I told you I had 11 strip malls, James, you'd be like, wow, that's got to make good money, huh? You must be a bit. Why else would you have bought the next 10 if the first one wasn't working? That's what I would think. I'd be like, wow, you must be killing it. The mortgage is just, it's every month, man.

Yeah, it's weird. So now, the one, the Mack Avenue one in Gross Point Park here, it's 15402 Mac is the address of this one building that he has. Now, he opens on the ground floor of this building. He opens a Vegas-themed bar in Detroit suburbs called the Hard Luck Lounge. Okay. Which shouldn't it be the good luck lounge? I mean, it's just a lounge. Naming bars a depressing name is something I don't understand.

I don't get why people want to go drink at a bar with a depressing name. You don't want to go drink at the down and out with me? Yeah, it might be a great place, but it's not one I'd go, ooh, the down and out. That sounds fun. Let's it over there. Oh, look, the red and bumpy. That sounds great.

That sounds perfect. That's definitely contagious. Do you want to go there? Oh, the itchy and contagious. Let's head over there. That sounds awesome. Open and weepy. It's open and weepy, yeah.

Ooh, the running sore. Sounds good. Let's get in on that. Let's go get a whiskey. Yeah. So it's got like, you know, like gambling decor. There's no gambling, actually. Because it doesn't have gambling.

It just has like the idea of it. And so the bad luck, is that what it's called? A hard luck. Hard luck. Hard. It's got the word hard in it, which might make people think there's sex involved somewhere. But I think there's like old slot machines set out, not working or anything, just whatever, dim lighting, that kind of shit. It's kind of a neighborhood bar, they said, and the clientele is mostly older guys who've been going there for 20 years.

Which you see that. That means that bar is going to be dead soon. And if it's not dead soon, it will never have a happening night. No, because anybody that tries to come in, those 20 fat fuck sitting there will make sure that everyone who comes in there does not feel welcome. And doesn't have a good time. They will make sure you do not feel welcome and you won't come back. So at the end of the day, it's going to be these 20 guys because it's their clubhouse and they want. I always feel bad for those bar owners where it's almost like they're taken over by these regulars because they need them because that's their only regular income.

But at the same time, they drive away new customers. So what do you do? You know what I mean? Well, it's a tough, but sometimes I've been in bars where the bartender literally sits at the end of the bar with three dudes and talks to them. I got to like fucking snap. Absolutely. The shit's empty. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. Hollering for a drink because this person and they love it. If that guy's the owner, then he deserves to lose his house. Fuck them. You know what I mean? But if he's some employee, I feel back for the owner, you know. Yeah. That just sucks.

There's a bar for sale near. me recently and it was a reasonable price. Not that I'm in the market for a bar, I just happen to see it. It's not an idea. The problem is, I've seen who's in this bar. I've seen it. I've seen the guys outside smoking. There's 58-year-old fucking guys smoking out there looking miserable

with 10 other guys who look just like them inside and nobody else. Like, guess who's not in there? Women. Guess who bars make money? One's where women go to. That's it. That's what drives it. Yeah. Sorry, that's it. That's all, everything. It's just the business.

It's been like that since the shit started. Yeah. That's why they have ladies nights. Yeah. Because ladies go. What's prohibition ended? That's what it was. Yeah. Ladies come and then who follows?

Men. That's it. Even in the wrestling business, they said that. They look and go, well, you got to get a couple of handsome guys that bring the young girls in. And when the young girls come, then the young boys come and then you got something. You know what I mean? And it perpetuates itself. Yeah.

Totally. Now, upstairs from the hard luck lounge, he's running a restaurant as well, he's running a restaurant as well. Oh, so it's a multi-level place. Multi-level place, and there's levels below and above that we'll talk about, especially below. Okay. Okay. This place is called Dylan's Raw Bar and Grill. Okay. Okay. They, oysters and oyster shooters and a dinner menu and that kind of thing. And then above that, there was another floor with a couple, a few rooms that he rented out as well. Oh. Probably to employees of the restaurants, because that seems, that's usually how that work.

So he's doing this. That's what he's doing. Now, neither of these are huge money-making endeavors for him. Those are oftentimes big losers because if you don't sell oysters, oysters go in the trash. Quickly, very quickly. That's money in the trash. That's fucking money. So that's what I mean.

This is, that's tough. And especially to run a second-floor oyster bar. Like, what is that? Like, that's a hard, that's hard to sell unless you're in like an urban area where it's, This is near Manhattan or something. That's difficult. In the suburbs of Detroit, when Detroit has plenty of restaurants. It's plenty of them.

So anyway, that's what was going on. He's also, while he's doing this in the 2000s, he serves on boards of about half a dozen community organizations as well to show what an upstanding guy he is. And in public, he is real upstanding. He is in the Gross Point Rotary Club, which he becomes the president of. So together. That's a really easy gig. Yeah, I would say. So from the outside, these two just look like a successful power couple.

Sure, yeah. The gross point, he's on the gross point yacht club's social committee. What is, yeah, what does that do? The most useless thing in the world. It's to, let's plan our gatherings at the yacht club. Think about that. Let's go talk about being on boats. Wow.

That sounds great. Getting people together so they can clink glasses and talk about being. on boats. Like all of that shit could disappear tomorrow and there would be like four people that would notice it. Nobody would notice it. Also, he goes to the St. Michael's Episcopal Church as well.

He is a support member of the Gross Point South Mothers Club as well. He joined that. And a series of charity fundraising committees that basically he's always in the newspaper in the Gross Point News Society pages as far as whenever there's a charity thing, pictures, there's Bob in the middle of it all. always. I mean, he's Mr. Gross Point Park, essentially. It's amazing. So, yeah, people knew him to begin with. He played Santa at the Rotary Club Christmas party. Doesn't even have to make a bunch of money for this. No, that's what I mean. He's just, he's a business owner, and he's well-known,

and so good enough. So, yeah, he's in the full Santa suit, which just means you're the guy with the roundest belly in the office, usually. You're Santa. Sorry. Remember Bobby Bacala on the Sopranos? He's the fact guy. Your Santa Claus. Put the suit. The boss says you Santa Claus. Your Santa Claus. That's it.

Put the suit up. Sorry, Bobby. So, and then he has another story. So you got first floor, hard luck lounge. Second floor, Dylan's raw shooter bar, whatever the fuck. Above that, third story, some rooms for rent. Then there's a basement as well. Hell yeah.

Let's not jump to conclusions. Starting in about 2004, he gets into some weird shit that goes on in this basement. What's he doing down there? Put it this way. When you hear about what's going on there, you would never eat oysters or shellfish in a building where this was occurring at all. Great. Not happening. Nope.

I can't wait. Okay. He had discovered BDSM. Which if you don't know, stands for bondage, discipline, dominance. and submission. And that whole world of, you know, leathery. It's interesting. Leathery, creepy, people beat each other.

When's the first time you heard about it? I heard about it when I was like seven. Very little. Yeah, I was going to say very young, very young. We had a friend that would come around named Bryce and I don't know if I should have said his name. It doesn't matter. It doesn't his last name.

Bryce isn't his real name anyway. He was like six foot seven. He was this huge guy, but he loved to be. Narrow it down further, Jimmy. Anything else? that I know. Mother's maiden name maybe you want to throw out there. Last four of his social, if you got that, possibly.

And he was at a party, and somebody, one of my uncles said, that guy likes whips and chains and shit. And he wasn't talking to me. He was just drunk saying it. And then I was like, what? And then he goes, oh, you don't know about that? And then he starts telling me all the things that our friend likes. And it was, I was a gas.

And he's like, yeah, this. He's like, a woman walks her. around on of a dog collar. When you're a kid, you're like, a boob would make your head explode. So you're like, what? They're not satisfied with seeing boobs? What's wrong with these people? Like a woman

walks them around on a dog collar, and I was like, why? Why does he do that? Yeah, I remember being... I mean, I don't get it, but I get it. Yeah. I remember, like, in the 80s, there's a lot of, like, joking about it. Yeah. So, like, I remember that being a thing.

A lot of joke. Like, if you were on a sitcom, there would be a joke about it. You know, there'd be somebody to show up. In 9 to 5, they dressed him and they dressed Abney Coleman in the show. Yeah. Yeah. So it was all that as we grew up with.

Right. So it's all that kind of shit. It's also like a gag that the guy that does that is less of a man. Yeah, they try to say that, but this is. Like he might be fed, you know what I mean? Oh, because he wants to be dominated type of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Bob is the dominator here.

He's not the dominat. Oh, what? Yeah, no, no, Bob isn't the type of usually upper middle class. middle-aged, crusty fuck that wants people to beat the shit out of him and call him names. No, no, no, no, no. He's the one in charge. Oh, I can't wait to hear this. Yeah, that's what I mean.

This isn't just, he wants some chick over to fucking tell him he's a bad boy. Squash is nice. Step on his ball bag. This is a different story here. So, anyway, he gets real into this shit real quick. Really? It's rare that the man is doing that. It's different. Now, he claimed that he,

lost interest. Apparently, during his childhood, he had some interest in this world. Okay. Yeah. He did what he called, I guess, bondage experiments. What do you do? I don't know. As a kid he was doing this, tying people up, doing shit. I don't know what was going on. But then he said he pushed it down for a long time. And then sometime in his mid-40s started getting the- Started dominating him. The rumbling. Yeah, started getting the little hungry. So he started, he said that the reason was he hadn't even thought about it in years, obviously, you know.

He forgot. Forgot all about what makes his dick hard. Oh, yeah. That's what makes this thing hard. Nobody forgets anything that's ever made their dick hard, even once, by the way. No. No. I remember people from women from sitcoms in the 80s that when I was like nine years old that I was like, whoa.

I'll still remember that moment of going, yeah, look at that. So you remember everything that gets your dick hard. Yeah. He's lying there. But he said in his mid-40s when he's on the internet, he saw pop-up ads for kinky dating websites. Where the hell did you get that in your algorithm? He's going to say, where are these pop-up ads? He's on ESPN.com doing his fantasy football league and these just pop up?

I don't think so. Those are targeted, sir. and you get them because of your searches. What you're doing. So, yeah, so he decided he was going to go on a site, collar me.com. Yeah. That's a site, by the way. I don't know if it is now, but it wasn't 2004.

It's probably huge now. Jesus Christ, you kidding me? They probably sold IPO last year to that shit. Yeah, that does not sound like it's not lucrative. It's got going away. I don't know if it's, yeah, who knows if it's lucrative, but it's definitely popular. Put it that way. Oh, for sure.

Yeah. It's like that tentacle one. I forget the name of that one. But if I ever heard it, I bet that's the one. Yep, that's that. So he put an ad up, apparently. And he basically said that he was skilled in this lovely life. Oh, so column.

He's like Craigslist for BDSM. People hook up that way, apparently. So, or at least they did then. So he's telling people that. Meanwhile, he's also saying that he didn't get into this again until his fore. So he's either lying saying that he wasn't into it for 30 years and then just, you know, rekindled it or he's lying to the people on the website saying he's skilled and knows what he's doing. One of the other. But his ad goes on to say, quote, I will open, train, and guide you in this lifestyle.

Kneel and have all your desires and cravings open to you. Are you ready for Master Bob? Oh, boy. He'll just be Master Bobbing in the corner. Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal. This fucking guy. Open you.

Open you. So that's his ad. And there's more in there, I'm sure, but that's, yeah. So he's looking for women to that are willing to submit to whatever the fuck he's got going on. Yeah. He said also, quote, oh, and I train several. So being tied to another is a wonderful thing. So he's not looking for one.

He's looking for a bunch of women that are all. also all willing to be doing this at the same time. Yes. Not just women that are cool with him going around and other women, but women who want to all be in the same room when he's beating all of them up or doing whatever he's doing, tying them up. He corresponded with a few women who answered his ad.

Then he arranged to meet a specific woman here, and they arranged to have, this is the weirdest thing. They're hooking up to talk about whether they want to do, you know, weird BDSM shit together. So they arranged to have lunch. to talk about it where they go to the Red Robin, which is the weirdest place to talk about this. They do have unlimited fries,

so you can talk about it for a long time. Let's talk about me, burning or twat under, over a nice basket of bottomless fries. So I'm going to tie you up and I'm going to do that. Yes, actually, I'll have, yeah, no, more fries for me. Thank you. So anyway, back to what we were doing.

That's insane. This is in Southgate, which is 20 miles south of Detroit. They said, quote, this is from a book that I'll give a, I'll give the plug to later on. Okay. There's a couple of them. The, the woman he met said he was looking for someone to be his submissive. I needed food and shoes for my children.

Oh my God. So she wasn't even into this. She was just looking for a way to make money. I hate that so much. That's, yeah. That is disturbing that a woman has to go to these lengths. And he wants to dance. Yeah.

For my children. And so I'm going to completely debase myself and do something I don't even want to do. If she wanted to do it, great. But she doesn't want to. She just wants to feed her kids. That's tough. He dove into it, though.

He went to events, these big swinger events. This is a whole, like, underground thing that... Oh, it's a whole life, James. It's huge. And I don't know a fucking thing about it. I just don't. I don't know what it is. I'm glad that I'm out of that.

Were you in it for 20 years? No, no, no. I'm out of that. Like, I'm glad I got out of that finally. I'm glad I never, never participated in that. Yeah. Doing an interview. I'm glad I'm out of that.

I'll tell you what. For a long time, it was tough. That was tough to get out of it. Yeah. Needed a sponsor. No, there's, uh, there's like swinger clubs in shit in Phoenix that I've been to a hundred times in my early 20s. It's just fucking weird. It's just, I'm not into weird.

I'm not into. It's just so uncomfortable. I don't know. Call me, call me crazy. Call me. Call me boring. Call me boring, call me crazy. But something about a naked chick, really, I don't need anything else.

It's just, I'm pretty excited about that. You know what I mean? That's always been enough to get. I never was like, I'm bored with this. Never. Can we bring another one in here? Oh, no. I don't care.

Do you know how long it took for me to be able to show this to you? I don't want to. I don't even need new boobs either. I don't want to warm up to somebody else. I'm excited about him every time. I don't get it. I guess we're lame, Jimmy. That's all of us.

Yeah, I don't know, man. So he gets right into this. He went to play parties in Ann Arbor. He went to Swingers' Knights at Private Homes. Jesus. Which is crazy. He went to a site called alt.com. It's like spelled out, I guess, which is a BDSM site.

It's basically, you remember adult friend finder? That still exists. I get fucking pop-ups for that. I never searched that, ever. Really? I knew a guy who was doing this. I'm starting to be on Bob's side. He might have just got to pop up.

I was filming this guy for this potential documentary, and his whole thing was he was looking for a chick, and so he looked everywhere. It was like him going to bars and him doing all this stuff, and eventually he's online. And he goes to like, he went from like just trying to meet a nice girl at like nice places to bars. to this, to that, to like, actually like e-harmony, you know, like long-term.

Serious. Yeah. Went from there all the way down to just went on adult friendfinder.com, made a profile, and in his thing was, I'll eat that ass. He went from, he went all the way from, I'm just trying to find a nice girl. In like six months to, I'll eat that ass. I don't care. Just somebody fuck me.

It was really, really something to watch. He went from dearly beloved to just bend over. I'll lick it. I'll lick your ass. I don't care. I don't care. Please nobody isolate that. So, and this, I still have a box of like 30 tapes of this shit, too.

Wow. So, anyway, he made a profile on there and made his profile name Master Bob. Yeah. Okay. You know, he's walking around. A picture of 250 pounds salt and pepper polo shirt wearing guy walking around in a leather vest because that's what he like to do in these parties. He wants to spank your pussy. Yeah.

Oh, God. At one point on the way to a meeting with somebody, a trist here, he bought a whip and some rope at a farm store. I mean, in a pinch, I guess. That is not the same equipment that you're getting, that you get in a sex shop. Yeah, I think the sex shop, it's like a lower quality, so it won't, like, injure, you know what I mean? Or, like, a higher quality, like the rope would be, like, softer, I would think. Or it wouldn't be, like, you know, like harsh rope from a farm store that you tie a fence closed with or something, you know. I was thinking more along the lines of the whip.

The whip, yeah, would also, yeah. You'd want like softer leather rather than something you beat a, what do you, what a fucking furrow or something? A bull? I have no idea what he was a whip for anymore. Who knows? But he did. Yeah. What do you do that?

But after a while he's got all the, he's got all the vocabulary down. And he's into it, which we've, we've also seen listeners of ours back in the day were into this. And I was, I was uncomfortable around it just because this, she was like a younger girl and like the dude. she was with was like 30 years older than her and like it was a dude big big big guy i was creeped out by the whole thing man i really was i felt i'm like dude somebody did something bad to this young lady at some point in her in her child and she's living this weird shit out with this guy because it's not this is not a mutually beneficial thing he was having people coming over running trains on her and it was wild and they were selling the yeah no it was crazy it was fucking crazy i just it may

been him that did some bad shit to her in her child he was old enough He might have come back around I mean we knew a lot of our listeners That were like ladies that like knew her from groups And we're trying to like help her and stuff What the hell are we gonna say to her? We didn't know what was going on So we just let the ladies take care of it They said we're gonna try to help her

And I don't even know she's so around I don't know I don't know what's going on So if she is high Hope your collars still fits Hope your tail's okay Oh the tail oh god okay Yeah that's a flashback there So now in the basement

of the place, the hard luck lounge, the oyster bar shooters. This is his dungeon. Oh, boy. In the basement. It's a windowless room that the, you know, the whole, everybody in the scene came to know as Bob's dungeon. Basic inventory, hooks on the walls.

Sure. As you as one has, chains. Chains, leather harnesses hanging on pegs, a flogging cross. Oh, Jesus. A wooden X-shaped piece of whatever wood that you strap somebody to and beat them apparently. A padded chair that a witness called Bob's leather chair, which was his throne. He would sit in this and tell people what to do, and this was like his dominance spot.

Was this leather throne. That's like sits and orders people to do things. And then there's also like tables of bed and a TV because sometimes you get bored. There's got to be somewhere to set the pizza. There's got to be somewhere to fuck. Yeah. And I'm sure like a, you know, like a microwave with a little freezer with some hot pockets or something in there. There's got to be something that we're not hearing about.

You never know. So according to some people here, he also had a giant spider web-like structure made of rope designed for suspension, play, and restraint scenes. Yeah. That's creepy. Is it hanging from the ceiling or is it on the wall? I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know where it's hanging from,

but it's in there somewhere. Another woman later called it a cramped partition, a cramped area partitioned off from the rest of the basement with cheap walls. It was dimly lit and all the equipment was crowded together. So this was not, when we're picturing this, we're picturing like a big room and a thing. This is a tiny room in a fucking basement in Michigan that he is cordoned off with a shit wall

and hung hooks from and tell women what to do with. while he sits in a leather throne and master bombs. This is crazy. This is not normal. Oh, Bob, you've created a whole world. What's he missing? What's he missing that he has to do this? Yeah, that's a very good question.

Like I said, this has to be something happen. Yeah, is this a guy that feels inferior and has to, you know what I mean? There's something psychological to this whole thing. Yeah, yeah, and it could be different for different people, but I don't know if it's he feels inferior or he feels superior. So, everybody must be his. He is inferior, but he feels like he deserves to be superior. So the only way to do that is to go down into this basement and put a leather cup. He just might think of everybody else's objects that he doesn't give a fuck about because he's, think about rich kids.

Yeah. You know, we're rich kids? They'd have like something that you'd want really bad and they'd just like leave it in a gutter because they didn't care about it because they had more. Like that might be also what he's, these people are like disposable to him because he's important and they're not in his mind maybe. This is fascinating. I would think the inferiority would be the guys who like to get beat, not the guys who like to do the beating. I think it's the opposite. I think it's psychologically when you feel like you're better, you can let somebody beat on you because you're like, you're like, you're like, you're.

You could never do this anywhere else. I don't know. I don't know about that. I think so, I don't know. That guy, maybe it can go either way. I'm not sure. So people, by the way, the hard luck lounge, everyone's the 20 drunk guys sitting up. They had no idea it was going on down there.

Of course not. Nobody worked there, no waitresses and the cooks, all those people. They didn't know what was in the basement. They had no idea. He didn't even hint to them that they could be a part of this life if they want. And maybe if he found them hot, but otherwise no. So he'd have gatherings. He'd hold these big gatherings down in the basement.

Big gatherings where he's Master Bob. Sometimes it would just be two or three couples at a time down there doing swinging and beating. Other times it was him with multiple partners. Multiple people said there was cocaine used at these events, which no one's doing this shit sober, right? I hope. Yeah, if there's not some sort of substance, what the fuck are we doing here? I don't know what we're doing. But he was the host.

He was the dominant one here, and everybody called him Master Bob. So it didn't start out that crazy, actually. When it first started here, the woman that he first hooked up with, who he met at the Red Robin there, said that she was already into the whole Detroit scene by the time she met Bob. And she said basically his basement when she first saw it, quote, there was some S&M toys and things. things in there. His interest in S&M was great, but his product was pretty small at the time. That sounds good. Hey, baby, look at my product. How are you doing? I never heard of that before. Have you? So she said, so it was limited. I kept everything he had in covers and put away. I kept everything he had in covers and put away. There was a chair and a bed.

he attempted to make some kind of ridiculous cross-type thing on the wall that was built incorrectly for his usage, for its usage, and there was some toys. Which later on, he figured it out. But at first, he tried to be like, from newbie to I know everything. Here's a, I built a thing and all that. So now, apparently in this world, the main, like, the main thing that gets said over and over, the main mantra. here seems to be safe, sane, and consensual is what they keeps coming up. Yeah, the first word is the most important part. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.

Once it gets out of control, then it's not something different now. So according to this woman, Bob repeatedly ignored that. He didn't give a fuck. This is for him. This is not for everybody. Look safe and sane. Yeah. I'm trying to come.

Yeah, safe, sane, consensual. He's not into that. she said generally when I would get together with Bob it would be a little spanking and with his inability and his impudence a little head. What? So she'd give him a little head. There'd be some spanking and he can't get it up. That's the other thing we'll get into. He's got some dick.

He was giving her head because he can't get it up. That's possible. He's got some dick problems. I doubt it though. I think he doesn't do a lot of giving. He's not a real giver. He's a taker. She said there were a few occasions where it got a little crazier, and when we were playing, he choked me.

I have kind of a bony neck, and I would get very dizzy and unconscious. Jesus. I didn't particularly like it, and when I would mention being uncomfortable, he would back off. That wouldn't happen for months until I'd be a little more comfortable, and then surprise, it might happen again, even though he knows she doesn't like it. It was not something we talked about. It was not something I asked for. For me, I wasn't completely out for a length of time. I was on that very thin line between being out and unconscious.

She felt the tingles. Yes. So, I mean, people started to find out about this new dungeon that opened. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's got everything. After a while here, he's got more goddamn people down there than he's got in the hard luck lounge. He's like, shit, if I could just sell these people drinks, I'd be, this would be a viable business.

George a cover. That's what I'm saying. So he would do that. And the neighbors would be like, why are all these people going in this basement? What the hell's going on? It's got like a side entrance thing. It's weird. One neighbor who lives across the alley from this place said I'd see people dressed in black outfits coming and going until three, four in the morning.

A lot of people look like they're in the fucking matrix. A lot of matrix people with rock hard. hard cocks. That's the only difference. She said it was real weird. She said basically the people that went to these parties would go down a steep, a concrete stairwell into the basement area there. And that was that. She said this neighbor, she didn't know it was going on across the alley with this

shit. She said, I heard they were having S&M parties and that made sense to me. I try to mind my own business. I love this lady now. I mean, I looked over there, but I said, none of my fucking business. Some things you can't ignore. When everybody's in leather, you go, what is there, S&M parties or something?

And then you have a choice to make. Do you try to do something or you go and go about your day? And that's what everyone should do. Observed that all of these people are wearing black, leather. And going into a basement together. What the fuck is that about? Strange. So she said, I try to mind my own business and they didn't really cause any trouble,

but I just didn't like so many people hanging around in the alley at all hours of the night. Yeah. This is probably loud, too. Let's talk about Rachel Gillett. Here, double L, T, Gillett. Rachel Renee Gillett. 2008, August of 2008, Bob meets Rachel online. Okay.

She's a divorced single mother. She works at Wayne State University, where he sits on the board, by the way. She worked, but that's not how they met. They met online, which is interesting. She worked in alumni affairs over there. Respectable, single mother, doing fine. She's about 10 years younger than Bob as well. She got onto alt.com because she said she wanted to explore that side of herself.

Yeah. See if she likes it. I'm sure something gave her a tingle. And then she's said, you know what? You can't know. Maybe I'm into that. I don't know. And this is before like 50 Shambles.

A shades of gray blew up and all that shit. What year is this? 2008 is when she found him. This was going on 2004. So by six, seven years from now, every vanilla basic-ass fucking 45-year-old woman in the world is asking to get shit done to them. There's going to be a line down the block for Master Bob's. Yeah.

Not now, though. So he's ahead of the curve, really. If this was a business, he's this close. To it popping. It's almost axe-throwing time, too. He can make so much money here. So much. Oh, BDSM and X throwing.

Yeah. That's something. DSM downstairs, axe throwing upstairs. The guys... After you come, they give you an X and you go... Going up and throw that thing. ...are your business. So she said she was trying to explore.

Her profile said that she was a, quote, submissive woman looking for a dominant single man. Oh. She wants to be dominated. So that's how it went. So they ended up hooking up like that. And they send emails and correspondence and end up hooking up. And he becomes, you know, into her shit.

She's into him. At one point, here's an email. This is from Bob to Rachel. You are collared to me, which means I own you essentially. Soon you will feel my strength and passion. That's just a funny line. Soon you will feel my strength and passion. That's a husband and a father writing that sentence.

Oh, and a Rotary Club president. That's the Rotary Club president. Think about that, everybody. That's the Rotary Club president. I mean, it's the Yacht Club guy, but everybody knows that. Oh, yeah, the Yacht Club guy. We know they're in a freaky shit. Yeah.

He said, I love you and I do not want to lose you ever. We are perfect for each other. Master Bob is how he signs it. So on the site they met, he represented himself not as a married man doing some weird shit on the side, but as a widower. What? He's been telling people since 2004 he's a widower. Oh, Jesus.

Which is interesting. So Rachel is in a relationship with him now. I mean, dives into this head first and really interesting, too. She said that first it was I'm a widower. That was the problem. You know, that was what he said. Then she Googled him and did some background checking and found out, didn't find any divorces on his record or a dead lady or anything like that.

So she said, what up with that? And he said, well, I'm actually separated, but it's just easier to say she's dead. Okay. Then it was, we're basically divorced. Oh. And then from there it went to we're finalizing the divorce. Like he was taking her through the steps from her separated to it's just about over. It's almost there.

So today, if you filed taxes, what do you tick? stick. Yeah, that's it. Hey, what's your Facebook say? Yeah. What's on there? Dead wife? What's the IRS think you are? Yeah, that's all we need to know. Hey, how many dependents you claim on your taxes? What number do you pick? Let me know. Jesus. So then finally, in May of 2011, as we'll talk about, he tells her the divorce went through May of 2011. a free man. Dvorced. None of this is true.

Right. Jane has no idea that he's a widower or a widower or separated. Almost divorced or separated. He goes home, hey, honey, kiss on the cheek and all that shit. I mean, it's crazy. So during the marriage at this point here, because I want to talk more about Jane here, he is very much with Jane. They live together.

They have dinner at night together. They go on trips together. He's present. They're at Rotary Club. events together. I saw pictures of them bowling to get standing. They're holding their bowling balls together. They look like a very happy, connected and

active couple. He's a supporter of the mom's club. A supporter of the mom's club. It looks amazing. Now, no divorce has ever been filed, no lawyer's been hired, nothing like that shit. So Rachel ends up breaking up with Bob

multiple times across this three-year period. A lot of times because he's a liar. Three years. Yeah. Sometimes she broke up with them because of the intensity of their sexual encounters. Oh. She said later that she didn't enjoy the pain of flogging. Right. As most don't.

And that she want, some people like it. Yeah, that she wanted to leave kind of the heavy end of the scene. She wasn't really into that. Maybe, hey, tie me up or something. You know, tie my fucking wrist to the headboard or something. But in a traditional relationship. that they maybe get freaky after a couple glasses of wine, but nothing crazy. Get the fuzzy handcuffs.

Yeah. Don't beat the shit out of me, please. Yeah. Get the fuzzy ones that don't close all the way. Just get those. They don't hurt. It's fun. That don't need a key.

I can get out just with a clip in it. Like that. Yeah, that's one of those. So every time she would break up with him, he would just full court press back at her to try to get her back. The way she put it and the way it works out is apologies, promises, declarations of love. You know the asshole guy thing. Oh, it's going to be all better now.

Yeah. We'll find a house. We'll move in together. Oh. We'll have a normal relationship. I can be that for you. He's making those promises. Oh, yeah.

He said, you know, I'm everything you need. I'm everything you want. I'm the guy. And she would come back every time. Yeah. So Rachel's probably had a couple of things go on in her background, too, that make her open for this. that's one of those you'd like to go hey where's your dad i'd like to go kick him i'd like to kick

this fucking nutsack through the top of his roof of his mouth right now because i'm sure something he did is causing this you know what i mean i don't know what it was if he touched or if he fucking left or did some weird shit but who did the fuck out of you yeah who did this to you and i'm who did this to you and why was it your dad talk to me so who did this and why didn't cvS keep you away from your father yeah exactly There's all sorts of emails to her where he addresses her as my lovely slave. Oh, God. And Master Bob and all that shit.

At one point, he said, I love you and I don't want to lose you ever. We're perfect for each other. All that crap. In 2009, this is what he's saying on the surface, then all this stuff's going on. In 2009, Bob wanted to have a third woman in here. Oh, Jesus. You know, this isn't enough for him. He's greedy.

That's the problem. This isn't enough for him. Okay. So he blindfolded Rachel and another woman and put them in his van. Hey, ladies. Kidnap them. Here's just a tip from a guy and from really anybody. If there's a man who blindfolds you in another woman and tries to put you in a van, just run away.

The van is the one that that's the deal breaker there. Yeah, there's been like so many guys that did it. And every one of them was bad. It's always a van and it's always bad. They all went to prison. So he drives them, removes the blindfold. They didn't know where they were going to be. When he removes the blindfold, they're at his house in Gross Point Park, the family house.

Why? He's bringing this home with him. What? She said they all had a trist in their bed in Jane and fucking Bob's bed. Oh, my God. And then Bob and the third woman slept in the bed. while Rachel, because of her lowly status, slept on the floor. So this shit never ends.

This isn't like when we get in the bedroom, you do this and you do that, but then when we're out there, we make decisions together. This is like a total dominance lifestyle that I don't get. It'd be one thing if it was just sexual. That's what you're both into. And once the door closes, you know, whatever. But like our old listener like that, it wasn't about that. It was about the entire your whole life is controlled. It's crazy.

So, and that was, I mean, that was her, but. As soon as the, as soon as the night's over, I mean, when we go to bed, we're just people. That's what I mean. That's what it should be. Pull that right out of your ass and snuggle in here. No, you're on the floor, slave. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Put this tail up there and lay on the floor.

Oh, creepy. Or dog sleep. Hold on. More guys will be over to bang you soon. Like, what? Oh. Now, marriage is starting to cramp his style a bit, as you might imagine. I can't imagine.

Why you would like that at all? So there's another guy here named Sir Patrick. That is his scene name. His real name is Patrick Webb with two bees. Now, there is a town called Milan. Very creative. And there's a piece of property there owned by Patrick, Sir Patrick Webb here. Sir Patrick's got the best.

Sir Patrick owns this. And he is a BDSM. He's a scene guy. guy too. Yeah. Bob knows him. So the property is about 11.5 acres in a rural area. Right.

So where nobody's bothering you. Now, this Sir Patrick had been hosting big swingers parties and BDSM events out at various locations around the area. But by about 2010, he built a dedicated party space on his property. Oh, my God. He called it the A2 reformatory. The what? A2, Ann Arbor. Yeah.

Reformatory. Yeah. You know, because there's punishment being dealt out in there. Got to teach you. They had scheduled parties, events where dozens of people would show up. Tons of people and, you know, there was a dungeon and there's scenes going on all over the place, booze and everything like that. The only rule here really was discretion. Yeah, just shut up.

A lot of these people are professional people and things like, yeah. He said at one point, Webb said, nobody wants to know what goes on behind closed doors, which is backwards. They want to know, but you don't want to tell them. Right. You want to know what goes on behind closed doors, but people don't want people to know what goes on behind closed doors. Right. You don't talk about. Yeah. Now, he, by the way, estimated that around this time, he said around Ann Arbor, this has to be a wildness calculation.

Okay. He calculates that around the entire Ann Arbor area, there has to be around 70,000 people into the BDSM lifestyle. An Arbor? In the Ann Arbor area. That's the college area, right? Seems like a lot of people to be into that. I hope there's not because there's college kids there. Yeah.

What's the, what do you think the like out of 10 is? What's the percentage of people who are in? who are into this, right? Less than one. I was going to say, it's one percent tops, I would say. Less than one. One and a hundred people are into this. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. So I don't know how there's seven, that would mean there was, you know, seven million people in Ann Arbor, which seems high. Well, I would say there's less than one percent that are into the extreme shit, but I'll bet it's probably three, three and ten are into some kinkier shit. Yeah. It isn't as a spanking or once in a while, this or that, or, I mean, half the God, damn women want to be choked for some fucking reason. So there's that whole thing that we've talked about before.

Hey, see these? I ain't choking you. I'm going to prison if anything goes wrong. You're going to look at my hands in your neck and I'm going to fucking prison. Jimmy can go, I don't even have 10 fingers. She could have got away for me. I can't do that. I can't even grab your larynx.

I'm not joking you. That is some shit. We got to find that out right up front. You don't like to be choked, do you? Because if you do, I ain't the guy for you. I'm not doing it. I will not murder you by accident. Not happening.

It'll be adorable to watch me try. Oh, that's funny. He's teeny tiny, I literally wear a small glove. Oh, my God. I wear double X. Sometimes I'll wear a ladies glove, James, because they fit nicer.

Whoa. I have the latex gloves for cooking, like the black ones that you get. The extra larges are small on me. Small. They're like here on my fingers. It doesn't work. I get the smalls for them to not fall off.

If I get the mediums, they'll fall off. Everybody, Jimmy's a safe choke is what he's trying to say. I can't choke you. He just, he puts his forearm in. He's like, come on. Is that helping? Yeah. Put you in a rear naked if you want a really good joke.

He puts you in the million-dollar dream there. Got a camel clutch these bitches, James. That's the only way you can do it, everybody. What do you want for me? What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? What do you want?

It's happening. So anyway, this is what he says. We don't know, obviously, what that is. But there is a lot of professional people in this scene, doctors, lawyers, engineers. I'll bet the percentage goes up when you get into that. Yeah, for some reason, yes. Yeah. Because you have time to get into that.

Normal people are busy. They don't have, if you make $36,000 a year, you don't have time to be into freaky sex. You just don't. You're just happy you're getting a blowtop. Yeah. You probably have. three kids that are taking a lot of your time. You don't have money for babysitters.

A blowjob is great. Yeah, you make $5 million or north. Normal sex is probably boring. I guess so. You're probably like, I've made a bunch of money. I can probably afford to do something different. Yeah. I don't know.

I swear that's how Epstein started. I really hope I don't get to the point where I'm not, where I'm like, nah, that's boobs are boring. Yeah. The chick's ass is boring. I don't know. I go to strip club still. it's the greatest thing.

They're amazing. Tits, I mean. Yeah, the tits are great. The tits are great. It's dumb, but it's fucking great. The tits are, yeah. Well, I mean, tits are fantastic, but think about a lot of those chicks why they're up there. Oh, I don't.

I'm not thinking about that at all. I'm thinking about giving her some money and having a corona. It makes me sad. I can't. Not even sad. I'm just like, because I mean, some people like it or whatever, but it's a lot of it's something bad happened to them

and that's why they're doing it. Probably. Yeah. Not all the time. Look, man. Something bad happened to me. That's why I'm here. There you go.

That's why we're all here. That's why we're here. That's yeah. So, I don't know. I guess if you listen to us, it's your, you're contributing to our fucking shit too. So now,

Pat meets Bob. Yeah. Well, you know, Sir Patrick there, meets Bob at a sex party in a Milan fraternity house. Oh. Imagine your. at a frat party and the 50-year-old guy comes in with a leather vest on and takes his dick out.

The party's over. Yeah. Party's over at that point. It's done. We already went through this during rush week. Who invited someone's dad to haze us? What's going on? He brought the paddles and everything.

This can't be right. So anyway, Pat and Bob know each other. They attended a bunch of parties. Bob attended a bunch of parties at the A2 Reformatory with slave Rachel, always in tow. sometimes with another submissive, sometimes alone. Now, Sir Patrick visited Bob's dungeon and described it as a dingy room with hooks, whips, and harnesses. Like, three different people use the word dingy. Yeah.

I think it's dingy. I don't think it's very clean down there. I think it's just what he's got. No. No. Now, at one point, this is amazing. Bob at one point made an offer to Patrick Webb. He said that Bob said, I will bankroll the construction or expansion of the A2 reformatory. I like this and I want to be a part of it.

He said, I'll put up the money. You build out the dungeon and the two of us will be partners on it. Then Bob never came through with the money. I reneged on the money. So this guy had been planning shit and buying stuff and Bob saying, oh yeah, I got you covered. And then he just goes, I don't have the money. So, or I'm not doing it. So now this made Patrick Webb really pissed off.

Yeah. He's like, I've been buying shit getting ready. I thought we were partners here. So this led to an argument inside the dungeon. So down in the sex dungeon, an argument between Bob and Patrick where they, quote, nearly came to blows. Imagine these two dipshits wearing bondage gear with their dick sticking out, just swinging on each other. That's comedy. Dude, that is the definition of comedy.

leather briefs and hairy thighs yelling at each other. You yelling and I'll fucking kick your ass. I'll kick your ass, nut sack swinging, one nut way lower than the other. Yeah. This is terrible. Just out. Yeah, this is awful, man. Patrick described Bob as always portraying himself as wealthy, but somehow when it came time to write the check, the money's not there.

No money. That's the guy. 2009 around this time, Patrick here, said that Bob said he felt trapped in his marriage and he wanted to do more in the BDSM community, but his wife was in the way. Yeah. It wasn't for a pesky wife who's got other shit going on. So he told Patrick Judd Webb at his own dungeon. And this was apparently where Patrick said everybody was blowing off some steam.

Oh. Everybody down there was talking about either their current marriage or when they were divorced and basically joking around. about divorce and how miserable it is and how your ex is. It's not easy. Just a bitch session, basically. It's fascinating though, because does his wife even know he's into this?

Fuck no. Exactly. I mean, I don't know what he knows. But you know, my wife. Yeah, she doesn't know, man. Yeah, and most of these people's spouses don't know unless they're there with them.

Oh, my. So, I mean, he might in bed want her to, you know, they might have a couple, you know, toys or whatever the fuck. I don't know. but I'm saying that might, they might have some light shit going on in bed. Sure.

But Jane isn't letting him tie her up and beat the shit out of her. No. And she's certainly not going to let him go out and do it to other girls. That's not, or other women, these young girls, that's not going to happen. So, I don't know. At one point during this, Bob told Patrick, sometimes I think it'd be cheaper to just kill the bitch.

The bitch. The bitch. And kill in the same word. He also said those same words. to Rachel over and over again. Remember Rachel? That he was about to divorce his wife and that they were, you know,

me and you, meaning Bob and Rachel are going to buy a house and move in together and, you know, they got this bitch in here I got to deal with, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

This bitch. What a fascinating choice of words. That's wild shit. She's done nothing to him, by the way. Nothing. Nothing to be considered the bitch. No, if she had her own BDSM dungeon

that, then he could say, what a bitch. She's cheating on you a lot. She's done nothing. All she's doing is going to fucking Mother's Club meetings. Working her ass off. Then there's a second woman named Janet Lehman, who we'll talk about, that he wanted to, basically, he wants to buy a house with Rachel and also move Janet into the house as a third. Sure.

Normal. He told a financial advisor that he wanted to talk about investments related to Pat Webb's Milan property and the A2 reformatory dungeon expansion project. He also told various acquaintances that he was looking, this was in late 2012, that he had a tenant who was making his life miserable. Oh. A female tenant. So he was looking for someone who would rough up, run over, or, quote, T-bone a female tenant who was making his life miserable. Send a message. That's interesting.

Now, Bob will find out who that tenant was in a little while. So Bob is telling all these people, we're talking almost like 10 people. and all these people that he's miserable married and if only cheaper to kill the bitch and all that. Now, in this mix, he has an Igor. Or an Igor, if you're a young Frankenstein fan. Now, his Igor, his... It's not Pat?

Hunchbacked Lab Assistant. No, no, no. Pat's a successful guy with his own property and his own dungeon. Oh, boy. He needs a lackey is what he needs. And these guys always find lackeys. They always find some guy who, you know, even if Bob was in the gutter,

this guy would be in the fucking, in the street looking up at him with wide-eyed admiration. Like, oh, my God, look at you all the way up there in the gutter. The guy that success for him is never going to happen, but he can dream every day and follow Bob around and hope that one day. And do what he tells him to. Yeah. And hopefully it'll, you know, wash off to him at some point, trickle down.

Comedy, they call that guy the host. The host, yes. They call him the host. road feature that the guy the headliner uses for 10 years because he's easy to follow. One day. One day. So his Igor is Joseph Gents.

Is it Gents or Gents? I'm not sure. It's G-E-N-T-Z. Oh. So pretty Gents, I would say. I'll bet it is. So Joe Gens is 48 years old in 2012. He is Bob's handyman on the properties.

And his IQ is 67. Which is... Lower, but makes Forrest Gump look like Einstein. Like, that's not good. He lives in one of the rental properties, a few blocks from the bar as well. He lived there for a while, then there's other things we'll talk about here. Now, there's a book about this case. There's multiple books, but one of them is written by a guy named Steve Miller.

Oh, I assume isn't the joker, toker, midnight smoker. I doubt it. But it's possible. this guy had corresponded later with Joe Gens, and he said that Gens did not come across as disabled in any way. He sounded like a slow but functional adult. He said that was surprising, but he said the extent of Gens's impairment

doesn't come off right away until you really slowed down to talk to him, and then you'd see how kind of he wasn't right, he's slow. on top of having some cognitive disabilities, obviously, he's also diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which is that's tough if you're smart, dumb, or anywhere in the middle. That's a hard thing to deal with. So he's slow and he has some decision-making skills. Yes, and has some swings and some problems. I mean, like I said, if you can intellectualize and know what's going on with that, it helps. And it's still hard to deal with.

But imagine if you're too dumb to even understand what's happening. That's a lot. People that knew him said that he had the social and reasoning capacity of a third grader. Oh. That's not good. He also has a young daughter because why not? Somebody fucked him. Somebody.

Again, gentlemen. If I hear one fucking guy, one more guy say he can't find a woman when this guy is impregnating people. This guy's got kids. I'm sorry. You guys have got to try harder, everybody. The world does not owe you pussy. Remember that and try harder. Get to work.

Get a new shirt. Yeah. Fucking get a new club. Whatever it is. Yeah. You can do it if this guy did it. Update your LinkedIn, you moron. This is not a, we're not, this isn't a kick in the dick.

This isn't like a, like a, like a rally speech. Yeah. Yeah. We're giving you a pep talk right here. Raw, motherfucker. You can do it. So he has no significant criminal history. or no record of any violence or anything like that.

Just a lot of low-end jobs and shitty apartments. That's it. By 2011, he needed work. He had nowhere to live. He encountered Bob. Bob had a rental property. Took him on as a handyman. He even helped get Gents into an apartment.

Not one of Bob's apartments, but another building, he knew a guy, a landlord that he knew. That was in the BDSM network. He hooked Gents up with him. Now, so he has a lot of ins. He's got the whole, like, legitimate world that he's got from his father. And then he's got this whole underground world of people that he knows. So he's got a lot going on. This landlord, Rebecca Fortin, would later say that the dynamic between Bob and Gents was very clear.

Bob's in charge. He's in control. Gens does what he's told. That's it. So the second half of 2011, Bob and Rachel start house hunting. Really? He's going to do it. Or is at least going to pretend he's going to do it?

One of the fucking do here. His financial advisor said he can do it. So, yeah, he kept, he's telling Rachel that he's a, the divorce is coming through any minute. Any day now. Any day. This is months after he told her May, in May, it's done, actually. Now it's still not done.

Has he ever been divorced in his life? Because it doesn't sound like he is aware of how that works. Not at all. No, he just keeps telling her. You have a solid day. it's a date when it's done that's it but he's telling her almost there this close so

they start looking at houses together him and Rachel you know for their future deep committed relationship so they walk to they go through properties together they talk to realtor's they talk about closing dates they talk to bankers about down payments

and you know mortgages and shit like that they're looking mostly at Gross Point Park because Bob's you know from there and he knows lot about there and he didn't want to leave the neighborhood. So they found a place on Kensington Avenue in Gross Point Park. They referred to it as the cottage. Yeah. Not a huge house by the standards of the neighborhood, but a nice house and a nice neighborhood. Yeah. So that's the plan. They're going to move in. He and Rachel and Janet Lehman. Yeah, we got the third. That's part of the plan. He wants

a second submissive here. He had met Janet on alt.com as well. He really cleans up on this website. It's amazing. He really was after her hard between November of 2011 and January of 2012. And the same shit he gave Rachel. I'm divorced. No, I'm not divorced.

I'm about to be divorced. I'm buying a house. I want you to move into the house. She didn't live in Michigan. She's from out of state. Oh? So, yeah, she would come visit. and he would arrange, he'd get her a hotel room and then arranged for him and Rachel or whatever the fuck to go have a party in this hotel room.

According to Janet, on one of these encounters, Bob turned up with a big wad of cash and a recent stop at a farm store where he purchased the whip and some rope. So he's got a big wad of cash, farm rope and a whip that he shows up with. All right. Now, this encounter, Janet said didn't go well. Bob couldn't get it up. Oh. And this happens all the time to him, apparently. And so basically what Janet says is what he could not perform sexually he made up for in flogging.

And there's a psychology. What is that? What is that? Extension of his dick. Yeah. He's a man who's not proud of his dick. Guys with huge dicks don't do this. Huge dicks that work right, they don't need this at all.

But she doesn't even like that. No. Well, she does, but not to be, she likes BDSM. She met him on alt.com. She's into this shit, but she doesn't like to be beaten the shit out of. That's a different thing. She likes the pain that she likes up to a certain point of whatever. So it's almost like you can't fucking takes it out on people. Yeah, like guys do. That's that happens all the serial killers a lot of times. The ones that try to rape people, they'll find that they didn't fucking, there's no penetration because they couldn't get it up. And that made them even matter. And that made them want to mutilate. the body. Janet would later say, quote, it was awful. I wasn't expecting what I got. A really good beating that left Marx for about three months.

Months. Months. What? Months. I've been in fucking marks. Marks are that's blood under the skin. That is serious bruising. What is? Months.

Hematoma shit. That is crazy. Wow. months he beat the shit out of her months how long can I've never heard of a bruise lasting a month I mean you'll see people with marks if they get like some horrific car accident they have we'll have marks on them but that's if they have like cuts and shit

you know what I mean like a gash or something that but not a bruise that seems like a lot that's scarring what months man that is fucking crazy now Jesus now what would you what would you Why would that make you come? Dude, you're sick.

I don't want a king shame, but that's sick. I do want a kink shame. If you like beating the shit out of people, you're fucking twisted. Go to therapy. Sorry, I'm sorry. We've gone way too far with, hey, I mean, whatever you're into. No, if you like hurting people, you're a sick fuck. Go to therapy.

If you like being hurt to the point of having marks for three months, you fucking need therapy too. It's not kink shaming. It's your sick fuck that needs help. Nobody likes that. right? Some people do. Getting it? No, fuck yeah. I can't ever. I could never think that in two months from now, I would feel pain

from a fuck session two months ago? That's not good. I would not want that, but I mean, that's the people that want that have fucking problems. That's sick. They do. And this isn't light shit and fun shit or we're not even talking about that. This is beatings that leave marks for months. That's a different story. Whoever's into that on either end. That's unbelievable. needs to talk to someone for a long fucking time.

That's just weird. So she told him, though, that she wasn't interested in the threesome arrangement, Janet. She said, I'm not really interested. She said, I want to be, I want to be single. Janet? Yeah, single meaning, I want to be the only one you beat the shit out of, basically. But his plan is, we're all living together in here, and I'm going to do what I want to everybody. Yeah, he said, me, my two submissives, that's what I got.

That's what we're going to do. they get a closing date on the cottage for Friday, January 27th, 2012. Now, how's he going to pay for this? Excellent question. I mean, Jesus Christ, you do anything and, you know, the finances are going to come up with your wife or whatever. You can't just buy a house without your wife knowing it. She's going to know.

She's going to know. So there's a closing date, but no finances in place. So the realtors said that basically Bob kept. reassuring them that don't worry about the money, I'll have most of it and I'll get the rest before closing. It'll be fine. Don't worry about it. So Christmas 2011, he tells, Bob tells two different people in two different conversations around this time that this is going to be the last Christmas I spend with my wife in the family home. Next year, everything will be different, he kept saying. Now, at this point here, he keeps asking around, remember that tenant he wanted

to deal with. He starts talking to other landlords to bar regulars. Do you know anybody that can rough up or take care of or run over or T-bone? He keeps using the same words. This tenant I have because this tenant is making my life fucking miserable. And I got to get rid of this tenant. So then in late 2011, enter Joe Gents again, Igor. And he starts talking to people about a job.

He starts telling friends and acquaintances that, his friend Bob here wanted someone to kill his wife. Now we've gone past a tenant. Well, you've got to be real specific with this guy. You can't, yeah, you can't just say tenant, wink, wink, he'll go, something in your eye. Like, he doesn't understand. What's a tenant? What's a tenant?

So, Joe would tell people that the wife's a high-level executive in downtown Detroit, and she leaves work at the same time, and she takes a specific route home. and so you want to help me kill this lady. Uh-huh. And he said basically he was looking for somebody to help him do, quote, a little hit and run. Yeah. Now, for this job that, you know, he has decided to take on, Bob has promised to pay him a few thousand dollars and an old Cadillac. What is it with that? Because we just had a murder recently in the last month where someone was like, I'm getting a Cadillac.

That's why I'm doing this. What is it? He's with Cadillac. This is an old... He wanted a 2002 and 2001. Yeah, this guy's getting like a fucking 10-year-old caddy with a fucking dented quarter panel. This is messed up. He's getting the guitar or whatever that shitty one was.

Yeah, yeah, one of those guy... That two-seater wasn't called? Those pieces of shit, yeah. It was a Cadillac, man. That's what Robin Williams is open. That's what he was driving. The convertible catara. That's right.

Is it a Catara? It's a catara. Yeah, the catara. Yeah. A lot of it was a lot. was one of them. Isn't there an Alante, I believe, or some shit that was also a pile of shit that was similar. Anyway, January 2012 here, Rachel emails Bob asking for documentation.

She says, I would like to see the divorce papers. Show me, show me everything. Oh. Show me the paperwork. Rachel said this. Yes, she said, I'm not going to, because we're two weeks away from the closing date on the cottage. And she said that I'm not going to, I'm not going to close on this if there's evidence that you're, I don't have evidence that you're actually divorced, basically.

So some time goes by here. He bullshits her. January 23rd, 2012. It's a Monday. Yeah. Bob obtained a conditional certificate of occupancy for the cottage. What? I don't know what that is.

It's a Michigan thing. It has to be. That night, Bob makes a phone call at the end of the night here to Joe Gents. Okay. basically they have been in, we'll find out, they've been in constant contact for months, just all the time, him and Joe Gantz, which if he works for him, he's got jobs for him.

But this is multiple times a day, sometimes a dozen calls a day. Good Lord. You can dispatch out your handyman work for the day with one phone call. Maybe there's a problem or two when he has to call you to say, hey.

Multiple times are your handyman? You know, yeah, is it all right if I buy some new paint for this thing that broke or something? But other than that, you don't need a dozen calls a day of the handyman. So, but that night his last call, the night is to Joe Gents. Okay.

Oh, he said good night to him. Good night, Joe. Now, the next day, Tuesday, January 24th, 2012. 5.30 a.m. Jane leaves the house on Middlesex Road for her commute to downtown Detroit. She's headed to her office at the Kema Services Place, and she's going to do 12 hours and come back. Now, mid-afternoon, she has a meeting in downtown Detroit.

See? Lots of meetings. There's always snacks. There's always snacks in there, too. I love snacks. She was at the meeting and around the offices all through the afternoon. At three o'clock that day, Bob goes to the office of the realtor handling the cottage purchase, picks up the closing packet for the cottage, and brings with him the conditional certificate of occupancy he obtained the day before.

Between 452 and 520, Bob's cell phone is using sites in the gym. geographic area of the Hard Rock Lounge, or Hard Luck Lounge on Mac Avenue. So he's being in there. Bar staff and tenants will later report seeing him in the area during this kind of four to 530 window, 430 to 530. About 5 o'clock, the realtor calls Bob to ask about a final walkthrough of the college, or the cottage. Bob confirms that it's everything's fine, everything's good.

Final walkthrough I'd like to have is at 2 p.m. on Friday, January, 27. End of this week. Okay. Jane wraps up her workday around five and leaves the office and begins to drive home. She drives a white Mercedes-Benz. It's a little SUV. She's doing great. Yep. The license plate ML-350. No, that's the car model. That's what it is. Yeah. ML 350. It's a nice car. That's nice. So 440 to 626 p.m. in this area. Jane's phone is using cell sites. in the geographic area consistent with the residence on Middlesex Road, heading toward that way. So at some point in there, the phone gets to the house. She pulls in to the garage of her home here. She was on the phone with her daughter on the way home and told her daughter, I'll call you back when I get inside and put my shit down and get settled. I'm going to take a crap real quick.

I'll call you. You know, people do. So she never calls her daughter back, though. Oh. She goes, and this is unlike Jane. Jane doesn't get sidetracked. She said she'll call you. She'll call you if she said so.

So 9 p.m. that night, Bob heads to the hard luck lounge. Okay. Now, that night, out of nowhere, he never does this. But that night, he shows up at 9 o'clock and starts sweeping the alley behind the bar. Sweeping the alley? Sweeping an alley behind the bar. And, like, they thought that. was weird. The employees said he liked to be like

a big shot. He's never touched a broom in this fucking joint. He'd tell somebody, go fucking sweep the alley. He ain't sweeping the alley. He just would walk around the bar, they said, and that night he just walked around. Then he sat in a booth where him and a friend had some

drinks and chatted. About an hour later, Bob said, see you later, and took off. So he showed up, swept the alley, had a couple of drinks and left. So there you go. One home, he calls the Gross Point Park Public Safety Department and says, my name is Bob Bashara. I live on Middlesex. I don't want to overreact.

And maybe this is too soon to call. But my wife is not around and she's not answering her cell phone. Her car and her phone and her purse are gone and I'm just a bit concerned. Oh, he's out of the house. He's at the house now. No car. And he's nobody's there. So that's when he calls.

And he says, I expected her home around. 8 p.m. And he says that she failed to arrive for a planned discussion about their taxes. But their taxes. That sounds fun, huh? Make an appointment with your wife to talk about your taxes. That sounds great. It's a real shit night. Yeah. He says he thought that she must be running errands around 8 o'clock and she wasn't there. Now, the cop who took the call said that his tone was conversational, mildly concerned. He said, but not visibly distraught, which is, that matches his words. He said, I don't know if I'm overreacting. This could be nothing.

I don't want to sound like a, you know, crazy hair on fire guy, but, you know, whatever. So into the next morning here, over the course of the night, Bob calls a bunch of family members and friends. Looking for. And also Rachel. Oh. He calls Rachel to tell him, my wife's missing. Oh. Okay.

Now, she said he sounded frustrated, but not panicked, just frustrated. Like, she's fucking missing. That's annoying. He also called the police back multiple times over the course of the night, not sure it was said. He also, that night, by the way, Rachel, when she got home, texted him, home, sir. Oh, gross. I don't like that at all. I don't like that.

Every aspect of her life is domination. That's what I mean. It's creepy as fuck. So, yeah, she's a, she's basically an abuse victim who's willing to be an abuse victim, but it's also like, hey, you know, not good. She's living the Renaissance festival every day with abuse. Constant abuse. She might as well be in the stocks getting fruit thrown at her.

It's not good. Well, she's saying the lingo and the, like, speaking in a, you know what I mean? That's so weird. That's so weird. That's so weird. That whole world, totally. So Wednesday, January 25th, the next day, 7 a.m. Okay.

Here we go. Now, there is, it's a northeast side of Detroit. A lot of shit gets dumped over here. There's a tow truck driver named Frank Leone or Leone, however you want to put it. He's driving through the area that day. He's got a company that he works for called HB Land Towing. And their contract. with the Detroit Police Department

to pick up stolen or abandoned vehicles. Nice. The city pays them. So this neighborhood is constantly full of abandoned shit because it's where people dump stolen cars and shit like that. So basically the drivers from all the towing companies that the city works with

just circle these blocks waiting for shit so they can jump on it and get the gig. And they're trying to get as many as possible. This guy was on a midnight shift. So it's close to the end of his shift here. Now, the sun hasn't quite come up yet because it's January, so it comes up at like 8 o'clock in the morning. Now, he spots a Mercedes-Benz ML350 SUV in an alley behind an abandoned house at 19416 and a street. And he's like, that's, it's not fucked up.

It's not taken apart. It's, you know, they're like, shit neighborhood with a very nice car behind an abandoned building. and it's all still together? What the fuck? Yeah, somebody probably stole it and dumped it here. That's it. They stole it. Yeah.

They have nothing to do with it, so they dumped it here. Which, it makes sense. So he said it's, he thought it was weird that it hadn't been stripped, only dropped off. But, you know,

he said if it sat there for more than a few hours, people would have been taken apart. Yeah. They said they would have taken everything because it's fully perfect. Yeah. James, a cop car caught on

down the street from my house. I don't live in a terrible neighborhood, but the cop car sat there for two days. A day later, that cop car was sitting on its frame and the wheels were gone. Doors were bashed in. In my neighborhood, like, it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You leave a car sitting for too long, and it's obvious that it's abandoned. It's getting taken apart. People will take shit off of it. Yeah, well, no one wants that anymore, and I'll take it. It was sitting on its brake rotors. Jesus Christ, that's awesome.

So, this tow truck, driver is not allowed to tow vehicles without a cop present. Yeah. Okay. That's part of the deal. So what he did is he scraped the ice off the SUV's windshield a little bit just on the bottom and got a grease pencil and wrote HB land on the rear window. That shows the other tow truck drivers. They claimed it.

You know, he's just waiting for a cop. So he called the Eastern District Police precincts, abandoned vehicle officer to report the find, then drove off to look for more jobs as he awaited the call back from them so he could go back and get it, basically. He gets the call back. But the problem is that when he goes back, he's not able to tow the car because the cop looked through the window and saw what looked like a woman's. dead body in the car. There's a body in it. There's a body in here, which isn't good. So the cop calls the Detroit homicide police section here, obviously, so they get a homicide investigator to come check this out. They get a veteran guy who comes on down. And yeah, they said he does tons of cases. He's done, you know, shitloads of hundreds of cases.

He's been involved in homicide cases. Now, another homicide cop, joins him, so they have a couple of veteran people. They show up, they find that the body in there, it's a woman, she's fully clothed, wearing slippers, house slippers. This is important because in 2012, a respectable woman in her 50s, they ain't wearing slippers out of the house. Now, every fucking, every 18-year-old doesn't know how to tie a fucking shoe. So I assume they don't, because they'd ever wear shoes with laces on them. I'm sure they know, but.

I picked on my daughter from volleyball last night. I got a coffee, and I was at the coffee shop surrounded by children. Every one of them was in slip-ons, slippers, or fucking crocks. There was not a lace out there. No, they don't know. I just think people gave up on teaching their kids how to tie shoes, so they just take these. Anything's too possible, yeah.

I'm not sure, but that's an age thing. I don't know. So, again, that's like the bands in the beginning. They were on bicycles, James. Okay, no. You can't wear. slippers on a bicycle. You can't wear crocs on a bike. No, that's stupid. That's stupid. Unbelievable. So that's what she's, they're like, okay, she's wearing slippers. They think that

the body's kind of posed in the driver's seat. Basically, her windpipe will find out is crushed. There's bruises all over her upper body and she has fingernails broken off. Like she's been in a struggle. They find out there that it is Jane, wife Jane, in the car. Of course. Poor Jane. She did nothing to anybody, this poor woman. She sustained multiple blunt force trauma blows, meaning that in addition of being strangled, she was beaten,

and the autopsy finds extensive bruising to her upper body, crushed windpipe, consistent with manual strangulation, broken fingernails, fingernails missing and snapped off, consistent with the fight, the slippers and all that, and she has a broken neck, they find out. Wow. as well. Yeah.

Broken neck. Yeah, somebody just squeezed her neck off. See what happens? That's why you don't get, no one's getting choked. That's how it goes. Broken neck. Which looks like if somebody was strangling you,

she was trying to get them off of her neck, essentially. And they said the slippers, this is the type of a lady, kind of a classy lady and a classy car and all this type of shit. She will only wear slippers, places she feels safe enough to wear slippers.

Right. Like at her house. At home. Places like that. Yeah. They're like, a woman like her doesn't go shopping in slippers. She doesn't, she'll put something else on for that. You know, she doesn't drive to meetings and slippers.

None of that shit at all here. So they said, they're trying to figure out how did this happen because she was on the phone with her daughter. Right. They know that. So they're like, did she go in the car, change in her slippers and then come back outside for something? or why would she do that? Or did she have slippers on to begin with? They check all the whole car, too, by the way.

Her checkbook is in the car. Oh, shit. Her purse is in there. Oh, no. Full of credit cards, debit cards. All the trappings of, you know, upper middle class life here. A reason to break somebody's neck. Yeah.

So they're like, okay. Because at first they're like, maybe this is carjackers. Right. And they got scared when they had to kill her and they ran away. So they didn't get to take anything. But they said, carjackers, especially ones, you know, in the, in fucking Detroit that know what they're doing, they take her phone, her credit cards.

They said there's a $600 coach purse sitting on the fucking sitting there with full of other shit that's valuable. So, yeah, no one's doing that. And it's an $80,000 car. They're like, no one's just leaving all this here if they, no one would kill someone for nothing. So they take her to the medical examiner. Like I said, cause of death is ruled a homicide by strangulation. Right. And I said crushed windpipe is consistent with two hands wrapped around her throat along with the bruising.

Pressure applied long enough and hard enough to collapse the laryngeal cartilage. Cardilage, too. Yeah. And they said she sustained blunt trauma, meaning she was beaten. So this is a lot and a broken neck. Yeah. So they figure out that it's Jane, like we said, and, you know, they matched the car to the missing person's report that Bob had filed the night before. They're like, okay, this woman, this car, this guy reported it missing.

This all makes sense. So a bunch of cars show up to Bob and Jane's house to make a death notification. From what I understand, Jane isn't there, or Bob isn't there at that moment. Bob's actually at the Realtors office at that point. Oh. Yeah, which is interesting. So anyway, they're talking about final details. When they finally talked to Bob, essentially, the accounts of the officers who told him said that he had a lack of reaction or emotion, which is interesting.

And other family members and friends who came to the house and the hours afterwards said the same thing. They said he exhibited grief and anguish. And then some people said he didn't. So it's like we don't know which is which here. So the cops in their notes say that he doesn't seem real broken up about this whole thing. It's not sad. That very evening on the front lawn of Gross Point South High School where she was president of the mother's club, the community holds a candlelight vigil for Jane. Her ministers leading the prayer, hundreds of people show up.

Everybody from church shows up. Bob's there, obviously. He better fucking be a vigil. There's a candlelight vigil. And it's somebody close you. You got to be there. You got to be there. And people said that he was present but didn't speak. He didn't like address the crowd or, you know, anything like that.

You got to be the ringmaster tonight. Well, Bob begged Rachel by text and phone and emailed not to come to this. Or I'm sorry, to come to this. So she comes. Oh. They hug at the vigil and people are like, who the fuck is this brought? He's hugging. That's odd.

But they were like, who knows? Maybe that's an old friend we don't know about. Somebody from college. Who the hell knows? So some people said they didn't recognize Rachel, but the problem is everybody that knows him from the Wayne State Board knows who Rachel is because she works there. So a lot of people do know, and they're like, that's interesting. Now, Bob at the vigil mentions to Rachel that he's working, that he's got a theory of what happened to his wife. He knows what happened.

Yeah. He says that, you know, I know what happened. He goes, this was a carjacking. Was it? She works in Detroit. and he says, that's when he uses the moment to say those N-words carjacked her and took her fuck. Yeah, it's Detroit. Those fucking, that's what it is.

Yeah. Remember, the ghetto nucleus, as that reviewer said, that's what it is. So he's just like, I can just blame that. Must have been some black guys in the city. I don't know. That's what he said. Yeah. So that day, or the next day at Wayne State, by the way, Rachel is at her desk.

And by the end of the work day, she's been fired. What? They shit canter. They fire her. She walks out. They figured it out. They figured out that he was having an affair with her. He's on the board and she works there and now his wife is dead and the whole thing is just.

Yeah. Whole thing is just a little too unsightly for them to have at the university. Yeah. January 26th, the 30th. This is very interesting. Okay. The 26th, Bob is told by the police and he drops off an envelope for Joe Gents at the thrift store where Gents' He tells the woman who receives the envelope that it's payment for a job is what's in there.

So, against the day before had been seen with $8 or $900 in cash. All right. Well, some of it he uses to buy a new cell phone. She doesn't have that much cash sitting around all the time. January 27th is the closing on the cottage on Kensington Avenue. It's scheduled that afternoon, but Bob can't close on it, obviously. Can't close on that shit. His wife is dead.

He's got no money. What's he supposed to do? So he says, can't do that right now. That same day, Gross Point Park Police Chief announces publicly that Bob is a person of interest in the investigation. Oh, really? They have ruled out some N-words in the city, as he put it. Is that right? Yes.

They were like, nope. Sorry. Sorry, Bob. We've ruled them all out, Bob. All every one of them. At least the ones in the city. So the chief says there's no other persons of interest at that time. Yeah.

And also tells the Detroit Free Press that Bob has taken a polygraph and failed it. Ah! We'll talk about that. January 28th, Bob's first attorney, David Grime, delivers a letter to the Gross Point Park Police. And the letter identifies Joseph Getz as a possible suspect. So he's trying to tell on Joseph Gets. Uh-huh. The letter is based on Bob's claim that Gets had been threatening him and bothering him in the weeks before the murder.

That's what the lawyer said? That's what the lawyer said to the cops. Meanwhile, they've been corresponding to the consulate. Yeah, they agree one of the time. The letter, though, it's interesting that no one in his life, including Rachel or anybody else, had ever heard Bob mention being threatened or harassed by Joe Gantz. And matter of fact, it's the opposite. they say that he follows him around like a dog. It's different.

Before the murder happened, Joe and Bob were on the phone 15 times a day. After the murder, they stopped talking to each other, and now all of a sudden, Joe is this guy he's been afraid of for weeks, and now it's horrible. Yeah, so they have to investigate the police. They first have to find out, because they find out he's been asking about,

can you tee bone my tenant and all that? So they had to find out where's this tenant? Who is that? Make sure he's talking about something. somebody different. One of the guys he said that to is a guy named Steve Tabotto, or Tybotto, whatever. Everyone's name is hard to fucking pronounce today. This guy, this person, Steve, would later testify later on here that Bob had asked him

about teaboning or running over a female tenant and it was making his life hell. He also said variations of this to a guy named Paul Monroe as well. then there's another guy we'll bring up later on named Larry Ellington that's very fun here nobody ever found out who this possible tenant could be can't figure it out no but there's no actual female tenant who fits anything he's talking about so that makes no sense then they say all right we got to look at cell site data let's look at the tower data and see what happens so at 626 p.m unlike what bob said both jane's phone and bob's phone are using the same cell tower near the household.

Yeah. He's saying I haven't seen her. Their phones are together. Phones are together. Yeah. So this is interesting. Now, 626 to 628, both phones begin to move away from the area of the home. Okay.

Jane's phone moves north. Bob's phone moves back toward the hard rock or the hard luck lounge. Right. So now they're going in opposite directions. So that's interesting. Now, what they think happened here, 6.30 p.m. a little bit later, Jane's phone is riding, they believe, along with her body, moving away from the home and into Detroit, picking up successive cell towers as it goes. Yeah. After 842, her phone stops.

From that point until the next morning, when the body's found, the phone uses one particular cell site, which is in the area of where the car was found in Detroit. So that's, which was in an alley near Pinewood and Annette, A-N-O-T-T. So the phone is now stationary the whole time. Now, Bob drove, when he drove away, he goes back to the hard luck lounge area where he establishes himself in front of the bar, staff, and tenants. That's when he went and swept. Sweep in the alley, yeah. Yeah, he's seen doing that, kind of manufacturing his own alibi.

Yeah. After about 5 p.m., though, all the calls on Jane's phone are incoming calls, nothing from her end going out. Oh. 11 p.m. is when he calls to report his wife missing. So that's the whole day and how it breaks down. Yeah. Now, January 30th, investigators publicly state that they believe Jane was murdered in her home in the garage and that her body was then moved into the SUV and abandoned in Detroit. That is a...

Yeah. That's not a theory. That tells me they know something. They're saying right away, well, between the phone shit and the slippers and all that, they're like, shoot, he wasn't going to downtown Detroit right then. That wasn't part of this. So they said that, you know, it wasn't a carjacking. They don't believe. The press starts asking why the husband didn't notice anything if he was home all night.

January 31st, 2012, day of the funeral at 3 o'clock in the morning. So the funeral is going to be later in the day. Three o'clock in the morning, a man walks into the Gross Point Park police station and asks to speak with investigators on the Jane Bisharra case. Yeah. He's a big, heavy set, visibly nervous guy named Joseph Gents. Uh-oh. Uh-oh is right. Gens had been driven to the station by a friend to his.

This friend, I guess, talked later on here and said that Gens had told him and told him, and later on the police that Bob had pointed a gun at him and said, do it now, and then Joe killed Jane. Oh, my God. That's what he told his friend. He killed somebody at gunpoint? Apparently, that's what he's saying. He said, go ahead and do it. Now, Gens tells the Rose Point Park investigators a version of that story.

He said he killed Jane because Bob made him, Bob threatened him, and paid him, and also promised him an old Cadillac, and that Bob owes him money that he still hasn't paid yet. Oh, shit. Deadbeat. So the police, they don't immediately take this at face value. They said that basically they could tell right away that this guy isn't all there against. He's kind of a little slow. Yeah.

Well, yeah, he's a little slow. Then they look into it a little bit and they find out that he's got a 67 IQ. He's cognitively limited. And yeah. So basically, also, they don't know if he's just dumb, if he's drunk. Yeah. Is another thing they think of? Is he dumb?

Is he drunk? Is he, uh, he's got bipolar? Yeah. Is he off his meds? Mm-hmm. That's the other thing. This is a physical disability that, uh, causes him to have some sort of, uh, delusions. We don't know.

So basically, he says all this and then they go, all right, we'll have a good one. Take care, Joe. And he gets up, he gets up and leaves. Okay. Because they don't believe him, basically. So that's that. Now, it's very interesting. Now, the WDIV, which is a TV station, reports that a Joe, they don't use his last name,

is telling investigators he was directly involved in the murder of Jane, but was forced to be involved by another person who was in the room. So that comes out publicly. 10.30 a.m., Jane's funeral is held at the Gross Point Memorial Church. hundreds of people are there, including a congressman. Everybody's there. Yeah, Bob attends, of course. You know, they catch Bob leaving, you know, with the suit on and all that.

Because local media has him here. Now, 2.24 p.m., the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office tells reporters they have not been presented a warrant request in the homicide investigation. Is it, are you going to arrest anybody? And they go, the cops have not come to us for a warrant. So, until they have a case, what are we supposed to do? The problem is one of the fingernails is a piece of it's recovered. Where was it? Not sure, exactly.

Possibly in the car, possibly in the garage. Either way, it's matched to Gens' DNA. Oh, it's got DNA under it. It's got DNA under it because she fought like a fucking, like a bastard here. So basically what ended up happening is they think, after they put all this together, that she pulled into the garage. Gents was waiting in the garage for him, for her. According to this, Joe must have jumped out and strangled Jane in the garage.

Now, Joe Gens has different versions of the story. In one, he's holding there, standing there holding a gun on Joe saying, shut her up, do it now. Later on, though, he says that Bob had told him to come over and help him move boxes so he came over. He said that Bob was already there. Jane and Bob were arguing, and Jane was telling her, telling Bob to get his shit out of the garage. It's at that point, Bob pulled a handgun and held it out to Joe, not on him, but to him, and said,

shut her up, do it now. That's the story that he gives. That's what they're talking about, what they think happened here, telling her shut her up, do it now. Um, he said after he did it, then, uh, uh, Bob stood over the body and addressed the corpse saying, I'm sorry, baby. I didn't mean it. Okay. So after he was, she was dead, he said they loaded her body into the back of her own SUV, drove to an alley, and then posed her in the driver's seat as if she, if she had been ambushed in her own car. Um, so that's what they were there.

They said they left her there in her slippers and just. just let her fucking be there. So the funeral was six days after the whole thing, after the murder. The husband's already been named publicly a person of interest. The press are all over this shit. Like you wouldn't believe they're so all over this shit. And they have this handyman that walked into a.m. and told the cops that he'd done it.

So it's all very confusing. But then February 1st, 2012, the story breaks here. There are cameras from a local station outside Bob's house, and he said that he refuses to comment on the latest allegations against him by Joe. He just says by Joe. Yeah. And then he says right into the cameras, I did not kill my wife.

I had nothing to do with this. Okay. That's what he says, right in the camera. I do not. So the press now has this successful lady found in an alley, her husband who's bombastic. They got a guy with a 67 IQ saying he did it. This is turning into a real circus here.

So Bob here, back to that polygraph, he took the polygraph examination voluntarily at the police department and failed it miserably. Right. So while he's doing that, though, the police execute a search warrant of his home. They removed computers. They took pictures. They, you know, documented where everything was, all that shit. So they figure out what's going on here. They get everything.

They get the laptops open. They see emails between Bob and Rachel and Bob and Janet and Bob and various alt.com correspondence, which is not looking good to anybody. No. Then they told the Detroit Free Press, or the Detroit Press in general, that he had failed a lie detector as well. The cops tell him that. So now he looks like a bad guy. Yeah. He was trying to be, hey, I'm upstanding guy.

my wife got hurt. I don't know why anybody's looking at me. Then February 2nd, several publications now talk about Bob's double life. It's now a fucking headline news. They found out. Yep, that Bob was led a double life centering on, quote, the underground world of sadomasochism and sexual deviancy with women other than his wife. That's the, yep, so there you go. That's basically, that's one of the quotes from one of the papers, but they were all basically a version of that. The Detroit news break specifically that Bob had maintained a sex dungeon in the basement of the hard lung.

This is like, this is fascinating for local people. Like, I've driven by there. There was sex dungeon shit going on in there. I had no idea. Yep. Every news cycle introduces another layer. The sex dungeon, the mistresses, master Bob, slave Rachel. Alt.com, whips, floggings, cocaine, A2 reformatory,

Fuck. Cottage. Bringing in a third and beating her so she's marked for three months. All this is coming out. He's in so much trouble. So what is he? What would you do? I'd love to talk about my options.

But I mean like to get away from this, you'd probably sit in a closet for a day, right? You've got to lock yourself somewhere. He goes on Good Morning America. Stop it. He does the Cory Richens. Hi, Al Roker, please. Yeah. February 7th.

2012, in the midst of all this. Not like a month went by. Good morning, Mr. Trahan. Oh, man. Hey, oh, God. Jesus. So it continues. Now, they're searching his house.

Like I said, they're doing all this shit. He appears on camera, though, holding hands with his daughter. Oh, Jesus. And he said, about his wife, quote, we had a very good open relationship. We what? Does he mean we were open with each other? Does he mean an open relationship? like she didn't mind if I fucked other women.

Right. And he's left that ambiguous, I feel, on purpose. He said, I'm frightened about this. To know that I could spend the rest of my life in jail for a crime I didn't commit is a very scary thing. Now, they asked him about Joe Gens. Yeah. And he said, quote, I do believe that he's the one that did it. He wanted more money from me.

He badgered me. And yes, I do believe that he is capable of it. He believes it. He believes it 100%. Is it because he saw it? happen? As I was there and helped dispose of the body. I seen it. So he said, they asked him about the allegation that Joe leveled that Bob held him at gunpoint to force him to strangle his wife.

Bob said, quote, I don't own a firearm. No? I don't own a firearm. And I absolutely had nothing to do with this. That is a sick assessment on his part. It just shows how deranged he is. It's crazy. He's deranged this guy.

Asked about the BDSM stuff, he said, quote, I don't want to get into that. I have my children to worry about it. I don't want them to know. Oh, man. They call me Daddy Bob. Yeah, that's a different kind. But I'm in charge still. It's the same thing.

He said the fact that they've named me the person of interest is unthinkable to me, that they think I could have harmed my sweetheart. We, we loved each other. My sweetheart. Okay. After that, more witnesses start coming forward. Paul Monroe is a witness that said Bob, he talked to Bob around Christmas, and Bob said that it was going to be his last Christmas with his wife. And that Bob admitted to him after the fact that he'd paid Joe to kill Jane because divorcing her would, quote, be like losing money. Oh, my God.

He's like, he told me he had to be. guy do it. Then Janet goes to the police too. Yeah. That's not good. She said that she overheard Bob on the phone with a man later identified to her as his handyman. The handyman, Janet said, obviously, as Joe Gents, the conversation she remembered was, quote, his voice became elevated and I heard him say, what in the hell is wrong with you? I want this done. I want it done now. Get to work. And that could be fixing somebody's air conditioning unit, though. I mean, that could be anything. So that's kind of tough.

After the murder, Bob would call Janet and ask her, this is wild. He called after the murder and asked her to hide Rachel. Hey, listen, you live at a state. Take Rachel out of state and away from the police. There's a ranch in Oregon. Take her out there and you guys just hang out there. She didn't do that, but she did go to the cops. Does you go to Oregon and ride horses for me?

Please. Jesus Christ. Wow. Maybe you guys could, I don't know, go lesbian and open up a coffee shop in Portland. Something. You live a life. What I'm saying is get yourself a Subaru and have a scissor weekend. Get on in there.

So that's how she said. Now, Pat Webb, police ask him about the cheaper to kill the bitch comment as well. Pat Webb talks to the cops. they also report, because it's been reported that Bob had had a relationship with a mistress who was identified pretty quickly as Rachel Gillett, who obviously was employed with Wayne State University. Now, Gillett had been talked to by the cops and let go already. In early March, they raid her home. Uh-oh.

And they leave carrying seven cardboard boxes and an evidence bag. Shit. Correspondence. March 3rd, 2012. This is right after her house is raided. Joe Gents is finally arrested. They hadn't arrested nobody. Even the guy came in and said, I killed her.

They didn't even arrest him yet. Listen. Go home. Yeah. He's arrested in Mount Clemens, which, by the way, is Jane's hometown. He's charged with first-degree murder and held at the county jail. Joe is. Now, March 9th here, they report, and this is fucking, this is, br, this is so,

enraging when I hear dumb shit like this. The press reports this. The clothing Jane had been wearing at the time of her death, you know, that might have DNA, hair, fibers, all sorts of shit. Has been completely, is missing. Completely gone.

Of course it's lost. Just, just the most important murder case, the most high profile murder case we have, we don't know where anything in. We put it back on her and buried her in it. Yep. Well, they said that the clothing has been,

had been supposed to ship from Wayne County Medical Examiner to the Michigan State Police Crime Laboratory. Instead, it had been picked up by the funeral home along with Jane's body and disposed of. The fucking funeral home just threw her clothes out. Burned them, bro. Who knows? Yeah, I bet they do that a lot. If I had an incinerator that went that high, I'd burn everything.

I would burn an old car. I wouldn't matter. It's going right in there. I'm fucking one tire. I wouldn't have shit on Facebook marketplace. No, I would have no garbage. I wouldn't even get pickup. I'd be like, nope, I burn it all.

Just burn it in that thing. Yeah. So anyway, that's what happened. Now, the Detroit police and the Gross Point Park police in public blame each other for this. Really? Yep. And the medical examiner said it, so just routine procedures and something got screwed up. But that's a big screw up.

Yeah. They still have the fingernail of the DNA, but that could have helped too. April 2012, Bob is still not arrested. Say again? He's still out there. They only arrested Joe. Yeah, they just arrested Joe. At this point, he's free, living at the home, working on the hard luck lounge, calling and emailing Rachel.

Without him, Joe's got no interest or reason to do this. No, he doesn't have, what the hell is he going to get out of it? Nothing. It's stupid. And by the way, Rachel, after her home got raided, took out a protection order against him, and he just ignores that and keeps calling him. Just comes over anytime. So there's several reasons he should be in jail. at this point.

So, and also the DNA, they come out that it doesn't match Bob, but does match Joe, which is exactly what Joe said. Then there's the phone records that show that the contact between Joe and Bob didn't stop on January 25th. They continued. They were calling each other, texting each other, and all the way through the funeral week. What the fuck, boys? Yeah.

So that seems a little bit silly. It tells quite the story here about that. And also, you know, they're talking about the phones and how they were separated. Bob's phone and Jane's phone were both at home, and then they went in opposite directions. Then there's a guy, remember Steve Tobato that we talked about? Okay, he is a Detroit area furniture and appliance store owner and an acquaintance of Bob. but not a not a

apparently a BDSM friend, just a friend friend. Sometime in the late spring of 2012, Joe Gents, who was in the county jail on first degree murder here, I guess, Bob approaches Tobato, Steve Tobato.

And the request is that he said, quote, this is from Steve, quote, Hey, can you arrange to have somebody take care of him? In the joint? In the joint. And so the Steve Tobato said that he wanted Gents killed. And Steve said, I told him anybody could be hit anywhere they're at.

So per what Tobato says here, Bob also told him that here, and he'll tell another guy later on, that he was worried about Gents' upcoming competency hearing. He said, if Gens is found competent to stand trial, he said it would be his life if Gents were found competent to stand trial. And Tobato said that, quote, he said he needed to have Mr. Gents taking care of before his competency hearing. He said, this is my life. I have to have something done with that guy. Oh, boy. Okay. So at this point here, Bob or Tobato just ends up going to the Wayne County prosecutor's office.

And giving them a call and telling them about it? Yep. He said this is what Bob wants. He's trying to get me to kill people behind bars. It's crazy. So then the process. prosecutor's office in coordination with the FBI, fitted Tabato with a recording device. He's going to wear a wire now.

I love this. So he went back to Bob. They had more conversations, all captured on tape, discussing the hit, discussing payment, discussing how Tobato would be expected to arrange for an actual gunman or a sale and inside the jail to do the actual killing. Probably use shank would probably be less. Gunfire in a jail is going to draw some attention. Tobato takes $2,000 in cash as a down payment. So now it's a thing.

And on a hit, and between them, they set the total price at about $20,000. On one of the tapes, Bob said the line that's going to come up later on again and again in court. He said, quote, once I pay the money, it's a fucking conspiracy again. Again. Again. That's two. That's two. So June 25th, 2012.

It's almost six months. Yeah. He's arrested finally. Almost five months. Because he's arrested. Yeah. Again. Yeah.

And they were waiting to get all the tape so they had him dead to rights on that shit. So they arrested him at his home. He is charged with the solicitation of murder as he's charged with, not killing his wife for the Joe Ghent's solicitation. That's what he's being charged. And that's plenty for now. We can work about the other one. Long as we keep him with no bail. Fuck it.

his first attorney tells reporters, quote, it's not often that I find myself speechless, but this is one of those occasions. I was completely surprised. Okay. He said that Bob's been in complete disbelief when he was told what he was arrested for. And he said that once he was told, all Bob could say is this is a setup. It's a frame job. Must be somebody that hated my dad or something. It's a setup.

He also, the lawyer also tells another report. that Bob was so unstable upon intake into the jail that he was placed on suicide watch, which is very normal for a normal guy to be arrested for murder. They put him on suicide watch. It's like when they get sentenced, they're on suicide watch for the next. You know, it is really annoying when somebody is charged with something and they don't watch them and then they fucking commit suicide. I have no problem with that.

Yeah, I mean, I get it. You just saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't understand people's obsession with, I want to look at him while they tell him. I don't care. Is he off the streets? Great. None of my business.

What else happens? It is frustrating. Thank you. When they put you through all that and then they commit suicide. Don't care. They're dead. What do you care? People want it exactly how they want.

Not only do I want them in trouble, but then I want them to sit there. Then I want him to suffer. I want him to feel like this. I don't want to kill him. I don't give a fuck about any of that shit. Is he dead? Awesome. Moving on.

Who cares? Yeah, generally, if they commit suicide, it's rarely like, you know what I mean? They rarely go, oh, that guy didn't do it after all. That never happens. That never happens. They find five more people he killed usually after they kill. They find more times that they did some bad shit. Yeah, he's like, oh, shit, I better kill myself before they find the rest of it. So the lawyer said that he was in complete disbelief and the setup and all that kind of thing. He said, this is what he said about Bob in a state that I would describe almost as despondency.

I indicated to police officials that I was worried about his well-being, and I believe that they put him on a suicide watch. So he's a rain two days later, and that's how it is. By the way, they said that Bob's a danger to the community and could easily contract another hit. So please don't let him out, and he never makes Bond. October 4th, 2012, Bob's lawyer is given permission to quit, and another lawyer comes on board. Oh, he doesn't, no part of this.

Too much. Out of my league here, or whatever his thoughts were. October 11th, 2012, Bob pleads guilty to solicitation of murder for Joe Gett.

He's on wiretap. He can't do shit. So they're sentencing, and during sentencing, he talks. And he said that he had nothing to do with his wife's death. This is not what he's being arrested.

You're not, it doesn't matter right now. Nope. He said that, And he said, yeah, none of that shit. He did say, well, he said, quote, I absolutely, I know I absolutely did wrong. What I did was an excusable and I have no one to blame but myself. I understand that I must pay for what I've done.

I absolutely stand before you and my family and the world to take responsibility for my actions. Oh. Which is, okay. He's going all in on the remorse card. Did you get less time? And the judge says, you, sir. a fuck off 80 months to 20 years in prison

which isn't bad for trying to get a man murdered that's pretty low what is that it's over five years yeah 80 months age cents 12 12 to 60s it's like yeah seven and change to 20 7 and a half to 20 basically which that's not bad for him that's not too bad at all uh 2019 would make him eligible for parole

at that point which is hard that's it's not less than seven years away That's not bad at all for that. Then Larry Ellington, who is Bob's cellmate at the Oaks Correctional Facility, will end up testifying later that Bob talked to him about wanting hits on three different people. Not just Ghentz. Also Steve Tobato, Gents, and a man named Timothy Ramsey. He hasn't even come up in this goddamn story yet.

Yeah, apparently he's a witness. And according to Ellington that he wanted to hit all these people to remove them as witnesses. The cellmate testified later that Bob offered him $5,000 to $10,000 for the additional hits. But he said it'll take a minute because my money's tied up. You know, how it works. Insurance policies and stuff. You know, I got to wait for some stuff.

Joe Gents also pleads guilty to second degree murder, reduced from first as a part of a plea agreement in exchange for his testimony at any future murder trial for a bond. In case we get him. Yeah. Just in case. And during his sentencing, Ghent spoke and apologized. He said that he was very sorry for what happened and asked for forgiveness and maintains that Jane's husband, Bob, promised to pay him for killing his wife. The judge said, you had the power of life and death.

Did you ever think this is wrong? Did you ever think to spare her? And, you know, he said he knew right from wrong. But, I mean, you're asking a guy is not all there, too. So who knows? Anyway, they send him off to the Michigan Department of Correct. And eventually the Bellamy Creek Correctional Facility as well. April 17, 2013, Bob is finally charged with murder from his wife.

First degree premeditated murder, conspiracy to commit first degree murder, solicitation of first degree murder, obstruction of justice, bribing, intimidating, or interfering with a witness. A lot of charges. He claims indigence, says he has no money. tells the judge he's attempting to raise funds to obtain new counsel, which he doesn't, so he has appointed lawyers. Right. Don't worry. We got you covered.

We got you. We got to have somebody. 2016, here's his trial. Gents doesn't want to testify now. Changed his mind. Well, you can't. This is in the middle of him when he was actually negotiating for a sentence reduction from what he had. Yeah?

Yeah, he's trying to get it down to five years in exchange for his testimony. That's no. The prosecution said no. They said that, so his lawyer said that if the prosecution wouldn't negotiate, Gents isn't taking the stand. So they said, well, if he does that, then you're reopening him up to first-degree murder charges under his plea agreement and perjury charges as well. Right. So Gens said, fuck that. No.

According to his lawyer, his lawyer said this, even though Mr. Bashara is in. prison, Mr. Bashara, having tried to kill him in jail before or paying someone to kill him, that sooner or later is going to happen, this is going to happen in prison in this stretch. That's what my client believes. And then Ghentz said, quote, I've been called a rat. What do they do with rats in prison? They kill you. He's like, I'm not getting killed over this shit.

Fuck it. So Bob's trial, the prosecution opening, basically. They talk about the closing date being three days after the murder, which seems pretty unintentional. Yeah. Yeah. They said, the prosecutor said, quote, he could not afford to have both Rachel and a wife. Couldn't do it.

And the other one, too. And the third, too, to come into the whole thing. And he said that later on they gave a bunch of evidence about the roughing up my tenant and, you know, and they said the defendant was obviously looking for someone to do violence and found that person when he found Joseph Gents. Right. Then they talk about the last call that he made the night before was to Joseph Gents. They said the last call the defendant makes at night the day before the murder is to Joseph Gens. You're going to hear testimony about Gens's intellectual capabilities.

The defendant is not calling him so they can discuss Einstein's theory of relativity. That's hilarious. He's not even calling him to discuss how a combustion and... The origin works. Fuck no. She's, he said, numerous individuals, including Gillett, Rachel, will testify that they didn't, had never heard him mention Gents before Jane's death and never heard him state that Gens was threatening or harassing him.

They said, while Gens did the physical act of killing Jane and DNA will prove that, he hit it, or he did it under Bob's direction and called him the puppet master. Oh, that's good. Yeah, the puppet master. So that became kind of the whole thing. I got to write that down. Yeah, that's what it is. It's a different, that's a nice one for everybody, yeah.

So that's what they want to put in. They walk the jury through the crime scene photos. They said there was evidence of staging. If Jane had been killed in a random carjacking or checkbook, credit cards, debit cards, and cell phone would have been taken and they were not. Right. The defense opening here, they say, this is amazing. His lawyer's primary messages, this is the day that Mr. Bashar has been waiting for. Has he?

Could not wait for this trial. Yep, said that Jane said, listen, you've been sold a bill of goods by the prosecution. The truth is, Jane knew all this shit. She's aware. She knew what her husband was into and she was fine with it. She liked it. Even though there's no correspondence or anything like that. that that would back that up. He never said, oh, I'm going to beat some other women now. And she was like,

okay, you know, kiss me when you get home. I got a new cat of nine tails. Meatloaf in the fridge. Like, none of that happens. So, leave my nipple clamps on the glove. I'll leave him out there. You can borrow him. Yeah. His attorney told the jury that Jane once told a friend that her husband was, quote, getting into some weird sexual stuff and that Jane had said Bob, quote, could do whatever he wanted to do. Huh. I don't care what he does. The defense, there. There, It's an open marriage, mutual knowledge, no motive for murder. What hell's he got to kill her for? She doesn't care.

And then this is another thing. She also said, she's the breadwinner. Why would he want her dead? There's reasonable doubt in this trial. He needs her. It's a great point. Well, part of it is she had $800,000 in her 401k, by the way. He doesn't eat her at all.

He doesn't eat her at all. An expensive house. God knows whatever insurance shit he has. She has to. He could sell so much shit and finance this cottage and fuck. fuck anybody you want to or at least spank them for a while and had an income replacement life insurance

policy as well oh Jesus he was going to be fine rachel spends two days on the stand oh okay and they they put all the email basically she's like uh cori richan's ex-boyfriend in that trial when he comes and he's on the stand and they're putting all of his

text messages up and he's just hanging his head he's turned around to the back of the court Like that's who that's what's going on to her all this, you know, collared shit and my loves to And where did you eat him again? So she said though that she talked about how she wanted to leave for a traditional relationship, but Bob was refusing to letter and talked about the dungeon and what was down there and the shitty partitions and the leather chair for Bob to oversee everything. She tells him about or she tells the jury about being blindfolded with another woman and he going to go. up at the house and then she slept on the floor and uh rachel said she was upset and freaked out by that yeah okay um the judge speaks to rachel oh and says why did you keep coming back to him

you've explained all the different times you got away and she said you get the apologies the excuses the promises and you want to believe it it's like anybody in an abusive relationship yeah exactly you've been on the bench your honor you don't understand how abusive relationships work The cross on Rachel, cross-examination here, because she's cooperating with law enforcement, so she has no charges against her. She has immunity. They work on, well, she's motivated to lie. That's how she got all that kind of shit. They said she was a willing, desperate, and active participant, not a victim.

The lawyer said, he was so important to you that you would do anything, even consent to having a third person living in your dream house together with Bob, right? and she says yes. Then they say, the truth of the matter is, you would do just about anything to make him happy. And she said, yes. Oh, boy.

And then they said, other than in our BDSM outings, Bob, in your BDSM outings, Bob never laid a hand on you. And she said, right. Then, this is the defense attorney, said, given everything about Bob, his lives, his life,

his role in killing Jane, would you have traded places with Jane? Would you do that? Be the wife instead of the slave? And she said, some days. Oh, some days I wouldn't. Some days.

So in the middle of the trial, Bob dramatically doubles over and falls on the ground claiming severe pain. He's dying. I'm going to have an attack. Yeah. It's some sort of episode. The trial's halted. Everything's gone. They make a medical assessment.

He's fine. Trial resumes. Then a giant power outage hits downtown Detroit. and the whole place loses power and they have to delay the trial again. And he didn't have anything to do with that? No, I guess not. Janet Lehman testifies,

the number three there, the third. She said, did this on a courtroom whiteboard because there was stuff up there. The prosecutor worked through the timeline of the encounter and asked Jane about his sexual performance. That's when she said the night about the beating that was so severe, quote,

the chairman of the board didn't show for work. Sorry, Bob. Sorry to talk about your limp dick in a courtroom, but that's what's going on. The chairman of the board didn't show up. The CEO was sleepy, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Oh, man, she talked about the beating. Yeah. She also talked about the phone call. She overheard with the handyman. She talked about the big wad of cash and the whip and rope purchase. Then she said that after Jane's death, Bob reached out to her to hide Rachel as well, which she didn't. and instead went to the investigators. They brought in Sir Patrick Webb. Sir Patrick, to talk about the A2 Reformatory. Oh, God. He described Bob's preferences in the scene,

said Bob liked to be in control and insisted as being addressed as Master Bob. Jesus. Whenever anybody needs to be addressed as something specific, I think they're an asshole. I don't care. You call me anything you want. I don't give a fuck.

All of this stuff, none of it was meant to be said in a courtroom and Bob is no, no, boy is he being humiliated right now. If he didn't If he didn't, if he liked to be humiliated, this would have been he'd have come, he'd have came right here in this courtroom. Yep.

And they're even making fun of his basement. He said it was a dingy room, hooks, whips, harnesses and other questions. He had a shit hole room. When they asked they asked the question here, they said did he use the words that he felt trapped in the

marriage. And they said, yes, he did. He felt trapped in the marriage and he wanted to do more in the BDSM community, but he felt trapped with Jane. He didn't use her name. He just said his wife. So they said, did you believe all this shit from him? And Webb said, as people talked about divorce one night, it was let out that it would be cheaper to kill the bitch. And he said that, quote, I took it as any other blue collar American would take it, just blowing off some steam. Did I put any weight to it? No. by the way, they talk about his interesting furniture that he has, BDSM furniture and bondage furniture. And he said, you can't buy BDSM furniture at Lazy Boy.

Can you not? I got to make it myself. Sorry. They talked to the Steve Tobato, who wore the wire. About once I pay the money, it's a fucking conspiracy again. They asked, I guess he gave a statement that said, what do you think of Bob? And he said, crazy. He screws everyone out of their money.

Ah, yeah. Then the cellmate comes in and talks about how he wanted Ghent's taking care of before the competency hearing. And yeah. And Ellington, the roommate here, cellmate said that he said to Bob, quote, you had your wife killed. And Bob said, that's why I need that fucker dead. Adam killed. Then they talk about the gun. He does have a gun, by the way.

And right after the murder, he told his elderly mother, Nancy, who's a very respected figure here, to handle some shit for him, asked her to place a bag of items into a safety deposit box at the bank. Uh-oh. Inside of there is a gun. It's kind of an antique revolver. Now, the weapon described in the garage by Joe Gents was a semi-automatic, so different gun. But now he looks like an even bigger liar because he's been saying, I never own a gun.

So now he might have several guns. the defense's whole thing is the police are incompetent. They lost the clothes. You know, this is ridiculous. Closing arguments here, the prosecution says it was a reality. A man who was not emasculated. There's a reality of a man who was not emasculated. With his words, he named himself Master Bob and therein created another world.

In this, he wrote, soon you will feel my strength and passion. That's not a man who has erectile dysfunction. That's a man who feels loved, adored, and needed. He created a life as a BDSM master. He created one world. He was living in another. The defense said, come on. Now, they accused the prosecution of being out to get Bob.

They said she's a breadwinner. Why would they want her dead? Come on, basically. Now, the verdict comes in. It's two and a half days of deliberation. Jesus. and they find him a guilty of everything. Really?

First degree premeditated, conspiracy, solicitation, obstruction, bribing, intimidated. That's what I'm wondering. They must have good food in there. We're getting good shit. Bob here was in the room. A reporter said he shook his head once, then again, then a third time. And by the jury, by the time they read the fifth and final jury verdict, he had dropped his head and was left hand and covered his eyes. He gave up.

He shook a few times. Then he's just like, fuck it. I don't know what I'm doing. His attorney said he's in shock. He's very disappointed in the verdict. During sentencing, Jane's mother Lorraine is 83 years old, and she goes out there to talk. She said, you took Jane's life, but I want you to live a while because I'm not going to be here that long. But every day I live, I want to think about you rotting in jail and someday burning in hell.

That's nice. They, uh, burn in hell. Yeah, then she said, why didn't he just go and live in his scummy little dungeon life and leave my daughter and grandchildren alone? Why did it have to come to that? Like, couldn't he just live in his own jizz puddle and be happy with that? A scumbag in your little basement. Bob speaks. Uh-huh.

He said, he denies everything. He talks about his, you know, community service and all that kind of shit that he wants added to the record. Yeah. So my community serves. I want that in the record and all that kind of shit. Then he said, I had absolutely nothing to do with my wife's death. I love my Jane dearly. I will appeal this until I can appeal no more.

What a dumb, dumb. The judge says, quote, your main slave, your wife who bore your two beautiful children, was required to work 12-hour days. I think she wanted to work. She liked their job. She did, yeah, but she needed to, too. Yeah, but I mean, that's like saying, that would be like someone saying a sour. You force him to make all these podcasts.

These are my idea. I wanted to do. You know what I mean? No one's forcing me to do anything. And after 20 years required to return to the workforce to maintain a fantasy life you were allowed to live. You believed you were smarter than God. Your love was a cancer.

You were not a provider. You were a predator. You lived in two worlds. Light, your family, community, friends, and darkness where your lies were your truth and your truth was a lie. I have no mercy for you. You don't want to hear that from a judge before they pronounce sentence. They say an idle mind is the devil's workshop.

While your main slave was required to work these days, you were free to, I'm sorry, you were allowed to live and sharpen your manipulative skills by being involved in the BDM lifestyle. You are a master of manipulation. You, sir. You get the gavel for that. May fuck off. Okay. Count one, premeditated murder. Life without parole.

Okay. Count two. life. Count three. Solicitation. 18 to 40 years. Obstruction, one to five years. Witness intimidation. Two to ten years. All to run concurrent with the life without sentence, which all, by the way, I think it's consecutive to his original 20 years for the Joe Gensden. Oh, shit. So once he deals with that, I think it starts. He's in a lot of shit right now. He's in a lot of trouble. And it's even better. In 2016, his dungeon burned down.

It was too dingy. Yep. I guess there was a big fire in the building. And as part of the repairs, the basement had to be demolished and all of that. Destroyed. 2016, he filed something with newly discovered evidence, which is Joe Gents, retracting and recanting his entire account of everything. Yep.

He wants out of it. He says, my testimonial statements against Mr. Robert Bishara were the product of coercion and subordination of perjury from the police. Really? Yep. He said, that's that. That's what he says. So there's a post-conviction hearing and all sorts of shit.

Before Ghentz took the stand, the judge said, this isn't a game. I have no control over what the prosecutor's office does. Anyway, they go back and forth about garbage. Then he says after that, he says that he signed an affidavit. David not believing the, not knowing the contents. He said, quote, I never read what I sign. Oh, come on. Well, that's a guy with those. I was going to say, how dumb are you? That's 67. That's about how dumb you are. Pretty dumb. He said, I had nothing to do with this affidavit. So this is, by the way, the affidavit that's now exposing him to fresh charges because he's lied.

The Detroit, per CBS Detroit, he said he described a scene where he said Bob asked him to come over to move boxes. They were arguing Bob and Jane in the garage. And she told him to get his shit out of the garage. And Bob handed him the gun. And he said, I broke her neck. I'll be honest. I did do it. That's what he said.

So that's how it goes. And he says that in court, too. He says basically that he doesn't think he'll last 15 years in prison. So he said, if someone sticks you with a homemade shank, you're dead. It's over. Yeah. So basically, he said, I'm not doing, I'm on out of this. I just want to say I killed her all by myself.

and have that be the day. Bob, during this hearing, he testifies, and he talked about the S&M in great detail and told the court that he was different from other men in the lifestyle because he helped out one of, he helped one of his former submissives get a job. Well, good guy.

He also described the press as a brood of vipers that tainted his image as a philanthropist. Vipers! Brute of vipers who ruined my image. So anyway, He also appeals based on the missing clothes, the polygraph leak and all this type of shit, ineffective assistance of counsel, the gun and the safety deposit box. It gets denied.

His old lawyer said he had a fair trial. It was over and above what's given to most defendants. Justice was fairly meted out in this case. Bob Bashar always thinks he's the smartest person in the room. That is absolutely fucking right. It goes all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court. They deny his leave to appeal. as well.

And Jane's great aunt said that ought to take the wind out of his sales. Maybe now he'll just relax and enjoy his time in prison. Shut the fuck up. Relaxed. She just said. Hey, settle down, dick face.

Enjoy prison. I like Jane's great aunt. Maybe you can find somebody to spank in there. Shut up. I'm sure there's somebody tries a federal habeas thing in 2019 that was still pending on August 17th, 2020.

He'd been moved around the system a lot. all over the place. He ended up in Woodland Center Correctional Facility in Whitmore, Lake, Michigan, where he developed liver problems, and he was hospitalized for a little bit. And then on August 17th,

he dies. Hey! He's dead. Hey! Fuck him! Hey! See what I mean? Didn't that feel great? That he's dead? Who cares? I don't care if he's in there for a day or 10 years? He's dead. Fuck him. Yep. Jane's sister. Never got to spank another person. Never.

Jane's sister said, I'm only disappointed. I'm disappointed he only spent eight years in prison. That is just not long enough for all that he ruined. That's true. The family started something called Turning Point, which can be confused of other things. Headquartered in Mount Clemens, donations in Jane's name followed. It was for like help people with things. It's domestic violence organization to help women.

There's two books here, by the way. Steve Miller's Murder and Gross Point, Privilege Adultery and the Killing of Jane Bischar. That's why I didn't give you the name up front of the book. And then there is another one here. Where is that? Oh, by the way, he told that, Bob told that author, I'm sure you'll find out when you dig that I didn't do it. Did he find it? He said he sure as fuck did it after more research.

The second book was George Hunter and Lynn Rosenthal's, the sadist, the hitman, and the murder of Jane Basharra. Good Lord. Okay, that was in 2018. And that's it. So Joe Gents continues to... He lives in jail. Yeah. He lives in jail.

One of the authors said, Sex, Lies, Betrayal, and Death. That's something we'll always be interested in as a society. It's true. Yeah. It's true. So there you go, everybody. There's Gross Point Park, Michigan,

and a fucking crazy story of wild shit there. We'll go through the end quick here because we're running pretty late. So definitely. Head over to, well, number one, head over whatever app you're on listening to this on. Give us five stars. Give a thumbs up on Netflix. That shit helps.

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