Small Town Murder - Stormy, Deadly Night - Selma, North Carolina

Episode Date: October 2, 2026

This week, in Selma, North Carolina, when two men head out into the dark & stormy night, while sniffing a very crazy substance, and looking for trouble. A strange turn of events finds these wild men horribly murdering an unsuspecting victim, in his own home, with little for the killers to gain. It's a mystery to detectives, until an entire trailer full of people seem to know some serious details about the killing!!    Along the way, we find out that the local festival has WAY too many pageants, that people should really be more careful about the substances they inhale, and that you shouldn't tell everyone in the trailer park about your senseless murder!!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!! Check us out on VIDEO Wednesday and Friday evenings on Netflix! www.netflix.com/smalltownmurder Donate at patreon.com/crimeinsports or at paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay, and Choochoo! Yay, indeed, Jimmy, yay, indeed. My name is James Petrogalo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on just another crazy addition to Small Town Murder. It never stops.

Never stops. We've heard a lot of feedback on old Judy Bagwell. I'll tell you that much, that case. Wow, that was a... Apparently, that really... really struck a nerve there. Somebody saving genetic properties and using them later, really, really struck a nerve. We have a crazy story today for you. We will get to that. But first, head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Absolutely head over there. Get your tickets for live

shows. As a matter of fact, you can get tickets for this Saturday show if you're listening. Oh, boy. You're listening right when this comes out. Saturday, this is October the 3rd in Dallas. Get your tickets right now. So after that, next two more weeks, we got San Jose on October the 16th, October the 17th, Sacramento, November the 13th in Terrytown, but that one is almost sold out. So if you want to get those, you better get them right this second. And then in Medford, which is just outside Boston, on November the 14th, get your tickets there. So good shows coming up for you. Also, San Jose, Sacramento, those will be different shows.

I know it's a very close together. So if you want to go to both, hey, go to both. You'll see two completely different shows. So do that. Shut up and Give Me Murder.com. Also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports, which we think you will like, no matter what here. We have murder this week, so check that out. Definitely. Then your stupid opinions, let's find out what people think about places we never want to go from people we don't want to hear from.

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Get in there. First of all, for this week, crime and sports. We did the murder of a minor league baseball player's family. So there's no sports, really. This is all murder. It's a terrible day. One of the craziest apprehensions of a criminal that's ever taken place. Just a naked man running wild through the streets, literally attacking the cops while

completely naked and the cops retreat. It's wild. You've got to hear about it. Then for small town murder, an old-timey Halloween murder, the trick-or-treat murder from 1957, which they tried to disguise this murder as a Halloween prank. something. It's wild stuff. Can't wait for you to hear that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And on top of that, you get all the shows we put out. Everything, your stupid opinions, crime and sports, small-town murder, all add free with your Patreon as well.

What deal? We can't help but give. That's all we can do is give. And on top of that, you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. So it's all we can give to you. Our veins are open. Enjoy. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. What do you say here? You want to clear the lungs, which is a task for me since I've been sick for a week here. Clear the lungs here. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me

murder. Let's do this, everybody. It's going on a trip, shall we? Yeah. We are doing it. We're going on a trip. We're going down to North Carolina this week. We're doing this a little earlier than we normally do.

Normally it'd be another, probably six, eight weeks before we do in North Carolina. But the way things fell, we're doing North Carolina. Fair enough. Interesting case. I know people don't really care. They're not going, hey, we're like five, six weeks ahead of schedule here. But I don't know. I feel like I have to say something.

So there might be a couple really anal people out there. They're like, no, no, no. This is ahead of the whole thing. And they have a spreadsheet. It's not high. We have people with spreadsheets. So you never know. This is in Selma, North Carolina.

Selma's in East Central North Carolina. About 35 minutes. outside of Raleigh, about three hours to Charlotte, and about an hour 25 to our last North Carolina episode, which was Burlington, North Carolina, episode 707. That was Serial Granny. Remember her? Yeah. That was a wild one. Yeah, North Carolina, you bring the heat when it comes to murder. So we're impressed. There's a Selma right around the corner from this. Why'd they... Yeah, there's Selma's, as we know, a very famous Selma in the south there. This is in Johnston County. We'll find out why they named it Selma, by the way.

Johnston County. This is area code 919. Population, it's pretty small around here. 6,317. It's pretty rural. All of our principals live in trailers. It seems to be all trailers and like things like that. Median household income here, 25,421. Let me repeat that. Median household income. The rest of the country, it's like 70 grand. 25,421. broke. That is a whole family. That's a lot. Wow. That's crazy.

And then median home cost has $245,100. That doesn't make any sense. That's why everybody lives in a trailer. Right. They rent a trailer because what can you rent? That's crazy those prices. So much trouble. Yeah.

The motto here, not good luck buying a house, dick face, which should be the motto. Instead, it's the crossroads of tradition and innovation. Sure. I'm sure it is. the crossroad. Innovation. Innovation, which is coming up with new, weird, like, inhabited, inhabited spaces that you can have. Trailers, maybe a hollowed out dumpster. A new cheap, lean to. Yeah, lean to, one of those shipping containers, if you want to grab one of those. Anyway, history of this town, May 1st, 1867, lots were sold all the, all the way around a newly

established station on the North Carolina Railroad. So this is one of those. towns it's only exists because a railroad came by. The town was built from these lots and considered a railroad town for a long, long time. The town was officially chartered in 1873. So May 1st, 1867, they're rebuilding a lot of the railroads from the Civil War and building new ones here. They got electric lights and water system around 1913. So then we're shitting and it's going away. Now we got something going on here.

and electric lights and everything else. We can see the poop leave. Yeah, we could finally in the dark. We can't see it in three in the morning. So they built a bunch of nice houses that are still around, you know, the downtown area still now, these big nice, you know, whatever, spacious houses. Sure. A lot of tobacco growing. First, it was cotton and then it switched to tobacco later on.

Right. And really, it was the depression that flipped it. Oh. Cotton prices sank and everybody ripped up their cup. Cotton started planting tobacco instead. Really? People are smoking, but they're not buying new clothes. That's how the Depression worked, you know?

People are making clothes at a flower sacks. That's what they were making clothes out of it. They weren't buying cotton. So it was just economic there. Reviews of this town, let's find out what the hell goes on here. Five stars. I love my town and have lived here since I was born. That's good.

I've had so many good experiences and have made so many friends that help each other out. Selma's a calm town and you wouldn't have any problems in this small, wonderful town. Well, that sounds great. Wonderful has two L, so it's really full of wonder. It's packed with it. It's full of wonder. Just jam-packed with wonder. Like raisin bran is with raisins.

That's how much wonders here. Two scoops of wonder. Two scoops of wonder. Three stars. I believe it's a great area. I like that, by the way. I'm told. I believe in it in my heart, even though I don't see it.

I believe it's a great area, but it's old and worn in some areas. I believe there could be more for the youth to keep them in school and off the streets. Like it's an old coat. Yeah. We hear that in so many of these small towns is that there's nothing for kids to do at all. Isn't that shocking? Huff things and do meth, you know? Yeah, it's very shocking.

Here's two stars. Small town. Areas furthest away from the township are the ideal location to live. It is a quaint area for the country life, and there are quite a few locations that are Wi-Fi accessible. Oh! They have Wi-Fi there. There's quite a few locations where you can actually live in the 21st century. Isn't that amazing?

There's a few places that'll let you get on the Internet. And this review is from 2021. This isn't from 2012. There's not a single person there that's heard of us. Oh, God, no. Well, they will after this, and they all spread it on Facebook. and this is the type of town where they all share it on Facebook and then they all make comments saying how they hate us because we said their town. You got to go down to the coffee shop to get online to tell us they hate us.

Well, then they can gather and spread the word of our hatred of hatred. So it's fun. Here's two stars finally. My name is Melanie Barbie. Hi, Melanie. Thank you, Mrs. Barbie. I guess. I live in Selma, North Carolina.

Excellent. Selma is a really small town and has very minimum opportunities. I've lived in Selma 18 years and the best part about it is you basically know everything that goes on. I think Selma could improve with more local park and family things to do. Again, no kid, shit.

Things to do here. The best thing is that you know everything? That seems like the worst thing you could possibly have. I don't understand that. Things to do, Selma Railroad Days. Yeah. That's right. It's a milestone festival. Has something for everyone. A parade,

rides, a car show. live music, model train exhibits, all that shit. What's the milestone? Since, no real milestone. They call it a, what do they call it? Did I say milestone? Milestone festival, they call it. I don't know.

I don't know what the hell that means. It's been around. It's been around since 75. Like I said, a lot of barbecue cookoffs and shit like that. Really focused on the pageants, though. There is one where they have a poster and I'm looking at it and it is what a pedophile would put on the refrigerator. It's fucking disgusting.

It is all young girls ranging from there's toddlers here. There's pictures of them? Oh, lining the whole poster are their head shots. So pictures of girls from three to say 13 maybe

and of like glamour shots and like the three-year-olds are like made up with their hair like Jonbonnet style. It's fucking. Why would they do that? And their names too and the town they live in

in case you want to go kidnap them. Just in case your dick is that hard and you're that much of a piece of shit, you're going to go kidnapping up a child. Why are we pedophile fishing? I don't understand this. There's 7 to 9-year-old division. There's the junior miss at 10 to 12.

Then there's a 13 to 15. Then there's a 16 to 18. They parse them that closely because they're like, well, you don't want to have their tits to develop. Like, they're treating them like hogs or something down there. Yeah, 13-year-old can't compete with a 17-year-old. She's so much hotter. Oh, so much hotter, man.

Unless the skippers you're type. There's also. mini miss Selma, which is 12 months to two years is the baby miss category. The we miss. Everybody that shows up. Everybody that shows up with a penis gets arrested. We miss three to four years old and then tiny miss five to six years old. So everyone from a year old to 18 has a pageant for them.

Arrest them all. Arrest them all. And there's bands. The bands, though, are not great. They have, let's find out. they have, give me back my Skinnerd playing from three to five. Yeah. Give me back.

I wonder what they play. Yeah. Then seven to eight, rev on the foreigner experience. So a foreigner cover band. And if that's not enough for you, from eight to nine, arrival, which is the music of journey. Enjoy, everybody. Arrival. Yeah.

Arrival of journey. That said, let's talk. God, I'm creeped out by those pageant pictures. You got to see the posters, dude. They're disgusting. so creepy. There's something for everybody. We got a little bit of journey and then two other cover bands that only do other bands. That's it. So as I'm screenshoting those posters for this thing, I'm like, this is on my like history. I took a picture of this. I'm disgusted with it. It's not good.

Let's talk about some murder here. Okay. June 18th, 1989. Let's start out. Yeah. Okay. June 18th, 1989. You can remember that being a little kid. I'm sure. Let's, uh, well, well, yeah. So that's, there's about a three-year window there, uh, that I, that I block out a lot of it. And that's right in the wheelhouse. Well, yeah, let's, let's, let's set the stage for us here. So we can possibly remember. Let's find out the number one songs of June of that. Of 89? Of 89. Okay. Was it? Is it Sir Mix a lot? Let's, no, not even close. That was like 92. Um, 91, 92. See? See?

June 10th, the number one song that week is Bet Midler with Wind Beneath My Wings. Wow. Yeah, not Sir Mixal. I say you couldn't get farther away from Sir Mix a lot. That's why I said, not even close because I'm like, Bet Midler. I want to see a duet between them, but besides that, I can't figure it out. Was that beaches? Yes, that's the beaches one.

Well, they're friends dying or whatever. Then June 17th, I'll be loving you forever by the new kids on the block took over at the number one slot. So the day before this, the new kids. kids were number one and then satisfied by Richard Marks takes over the next week. Wow. Yep. And the number one hit that week just came out the box office on June 16th was Ghostbusters 2. What a great movie.

Which opened to $29.4 million weekend, setting a brief three-day record. Then Batman came out on the 23rd and it blew the fuck out of everybody. That was the first Batman. How about that? Batman knocked a pedophile right out of the charts. Right out of there. That's right. So that day, June 18th at 1989, a man named John Horton is meeting with a detective named Detective Beasley here.

Okay. Now, John Horton, this detective has heard tell around the way now about this John Horton might have information about a murder that happened back on May 1st. So they're going to talk to old John Horton. Now, John Horton meets with the detective at the home. of his sister, Tammy Horton, who he, of course, lives with because why not? Because you've got to have more than one person, otherwise you can't make it. No, no, well, it's his sister, his sister's boyfriend, him, and somebody else all live in a trailer. It's a lot of roommates.

It's a lot of roommates in a trailer. So now Beasley tells Horton, I'm a detective, and I've been told you have some information, and you're going to sit right on down and tell me about it there, son. and Horton says, let's talk. I'm ready to tell you everything. So here we go. He then gives Beasley here a rundown of May 1st, 1989. So do you just, now this is what the police know before they talk to Horton.

Okay. This is the murder that happened and what they're trying to find out about. And it's been a month and a half and they haven't really had much to go on. Now, they know that a man named, there's a couple we'll talk about Leland Mack Grice. Mac Grice. That's a good name. Leeland Mac Grice. He's 69 years old. He has a wife named Ruby Dozier Grice. She's also 69 years old. They have... They also live in a trailer here. Now, Weelan, a little bit about him. He's got two brothers and a sister. He's a retired carpenter. Now, they have a bunch of kids, too. They have two sons, William and Leeland Jr. They have two daughters, Carol and Sharon. They have 13 grand. grandchildren, five great-grandchildren. All because two people fell in love.

Two people, well, they at least fucked a lot in a trailer. One of the two, I don't know. At least threw some dick at her. Either that or they just had a real sense of responsibility and duty. And they stuck around until they were 69 years old. So now they're each born in 1920, both of them. In 1949, I found out old Leland Grice here was the, was made the sergeant-at-arms for the local American Legion branch.

So that's nice here. So they're into the community basically. 1958, their son William was one of the people sent to Lebanon to some sort of military action that was taking place in Lebanon in 1958. He was sent over there as one of a small force, actually. So that's pretty interesting. Now, Leland's, like I said, a retired carpenter. They live on Route 2. here. It's a mobile home. It's off of, this isn't, it's not even on this road, it's on route

two. It's off of rural paved road 1934. That's what they call it, rural paved road 1934. Fuck giving it a name. Paved one. Why couldn't you just name it after anybody? Anybody, pick somebody. Call it Leland's Road. Who cares? It's North Carolina. Call it Dean Smith Avenue. Who gives a shit? Just name it. Michael Jordan Street. Does it matter? James Worthy Avenue. Is that good?

It's a goddamn difference. Fuck. I like Bull Durham. Call it Cozner Street. I don't care. It's fine. My aunt's address was rural route. And I was like, what?

I was like, son uncle Bruce a letter. Then she gave me that address. I'm like, what are we? Where are you? It's better than rural paved road. Because it sounds like they're bragging about the paved road. the paved part. Like, we paved it on out there now.

That's, we paved some our roads. Oh, boy. So on the night of May 1st, 1989, there was severe storm warnings that are broadcast for the area. And there's a lot of real good storms here in this mid-Atlantic region here in the South. Now, this is weird. Mrs. Grice, Ruby.

Ruby was afraid of storms at 69 years old. So this is the weirdest part. She leaves the mobile home that she lives in with her husband. Leaves him there. Oh, she doesn't go with him? No, no, no, leaves him behind, old Leland. To go to her daughter's house, Carol Daniels. So you go, she must live, like, far away and in, like, a big brick house.

No, she lives in another trailer, less than a mile down the road. Well. How are you safer there or feel safer there than being there with your husband? It doesn't make any sense. Maybe a real big storm just came through there and lightning doesn't strike twice. Maybe. I'm not sure what's going on. But she's down there.

This was about 8.20 p.m. She left to go to her daughter's house. Apparently the storm subsides within a three-hour window. Right. Because at about 11.20 p.m., Ruby leaves her daughter's house to drive home right up the road, less than a mile. Now, the back door of the residence was the one that everyone used. Everybody just went in and out the back door of the trailer. And now, apparently that she left the residence.

When she left originally to go to her daughters, Leland was sitting at the end of the table in the dining room with his back to the door. Okay. So the door in question is the only one at that entry point and there's no storm door on it. It's just an open door to the outdoors. So the weather's stormy, like we said. Now, she said she couldn't remember Ruby that she closed the door when she left, but they think she did. And later on, she said, I think I locked it even, I thought. Oh, it's a swinging door.

Well, do you know, it's a regular door, but they keep it open for air. What door doesn't swing? An Arcadia, a slider. I've seen a lot of those on a trailer. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. This is a door door, regular, you know, regular old door here. So that's a good point, though. Now, they think, though, that on a stormy day, he wouldn't be sitting at the dining room table with the door completely open with his back to it.

It just doesn't make sense. Now, she says she returned home that night. She got out her house key because she was expecting the door to be closed and locked, as usual. Because she figured it's 1120. He's probably, you know, winding down. Yeah. So she gets to the home. She enters through the back door and finds papers and the contents of drawers and cabinets scattered all over the floor.

floor. What a storm. Yeah, it looks like the storm came through this motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah. So the TV was on. The sound is turned up loud on the TV, which is normal for a 70-year-old, basically. Yeah.

She gets into the living room and finds something that is very abnormal, and that is her husband, Leland, face down on the floor with a hole in the back of his head. Oh, no. That's not good. A 22-caliber shell casing is on the floor at his right side, and his wallet is laying on top of his back. It's like somebody looked at it, rifled through it and threw it down on his back. So cold blooded, yeah, just shot this guy in the back of the head. And he has like some physical limitations too. Ah. He's a 69 year old retired carpenter. So he's, I mean, there's arthritis, there's back pain, I'm sure. There's a lot of things wrong with the guy that's been doing

construction for 50 years, enough to raise a big family and all that kind of thing. From from 1920 to, from 1920 till now, the amount of chemicals he's been in contact with too. Oh, absolutely. And I'm sure he was in the war also. Yeah. And he was of age to be in the war. So, I mean, God knows what adjusted then. So she, Ruby calls her daughters, obviously, Carol and Sherry, who arrive within minutes because they all live right there. Yeah.

The detective, Tommy Beasley, the one who's talking to Horton in the beginning of this story here of the Johnston County Sheriff's Department, he responds to the call. He arrives at the scene. and EMTs are already there, apparently. And they, on his way in, he was notified that he's the guy's gone. He's dead already. So, you know, crime's seen it off. There's no revival here happening. He's been shot in the head.

He had no vital signs upon arrival. That's it. So the wound that he has here, the medical examiner, says an autopsy of the victim revealed a one-inch abrasion on his forehead. So somebody hit him in the forehead. head. Hit him or something, yeah. And a gunshot wound behind his left ear, five and a half inches from the top of his head and three inches to the left of the posterior midline.

So that would be... Those are very specific areas. It's right here, back of the head, like a mob hit, basically, right there. The wound track proceeded left to right. The projectile entered the left occipital bone and lodged in the soft tissue behind the jawbone on the right side. Oh, God, dang. That's rough.

And the cause of death is hemorrhaging along the wound track caused by the bullet, obviously. So this is why we're meeting with John Horton to find out what he could know about this. Because you can't have old people being shot in their trailers. We can't have that. You can't have a community. It's one thing if people are all into meth or killing each other or something like that. You can't have innocent old people gun down in their homes. Nobody stands for that shit.

Yeah. That's no good. It's the people that you don't fuck with. Old people, women, and children. That's it. That's it. Find a very spry young white man. That's the only victims that will allow.

Well, there's some, there's some fucking, there's some exceptions there to, I'm sure there are. Yeah, I'm sure there's some, I'm sure there's some women that, whatever. Certainly. But none of them are 70 years old, is my point. Nope. But they're all somebody's ex-wife. None of them are under 18 or over 65, let's say.

18 to 65. That's your killing window, people. get it on it. Outside of that, you've passed your time. It's expired. You're a piece of shit. You're a real piece of shit. So here comes John Horton now. They're like, this is what we know and we know you could fill in the gap. So John lives with his girlfriend, Annette, his sister, Tammy and her boyfriend, Tommy. Tammy and Tommy. Okay. Oh, interesting. Tammy is a very lady of the 80s name. It's always a Tammy. There's not a lot of, Tammy. ever meet a girl named Cammy? That's worse than Tammy.

They're going to be worse. They're all very kind women, though. Cammy will cut you, though. Watch out for her. Not before she makes you smile. How else is she going to lure you into a place to cut you?

That's the point. Camys are always pretty dirty. Tamys are just dirty. They have like sweat marks on their face while they're blowing you. What about if they have a boyfriend Tommy at the same time. That's even worse.

I think it makes it worse. So he said he arrived home on May 1st at approximately 5 to 5.30 p.m. He said about 6.30 p.m. on that night, two of his people that he knows came over the mobile home in a truck. Okay? This is Gordon Michael Marlowe. And he's born in 1968, so 21 years old. And Franklin Dwayne Howell. He's born June 16th, 1965, so he's not even 24 yet.

He's 23. They come over driving Howell's truck, all right? Now, a little bit on Howell, because he's got sort of an interesting background here. He's got a mother named Patricia Oliver, more on her later. She said that his father beat both her and young Franklin. So she divorced him after they were married for three years. And that's kind of his background. Now, both Gordon and Franklin work at the same tire shop together.

Oh. That's where they work. So the success is... Yeah. Sky's the limit for these guys, basically. Private jets and, you know, expensive meals and, you know... That's a friendship made. The...

Yeah. Wine. They just... You know a lot about BFGs. I know Mickey Thompson. Let's hang out. The jewels, the, you know, it's a lot. It's a high-flying lifestyle working in a tire shop when you're 21.

Making it rain on everybody. So Howell asked John Horton if he would drive for him later that night. Will you drive for me tonight? I need a – we're clearly players. We need a driver tonight. We need a driver. When do you hear the big player reason they need a driver? It's amazing.

It is the most white trash thing in the history of the world to need a driver for. So Horton asks Howell why he want me to drive? and Howell gave him no reason. Okay. Then Horton said, well, yeah, I guess I'll drive you. I asked you a question. You didn't answer it. And now I'm going to agree to what you want.

No, you're going to answer it. I'm going to reply in the positive, in the affirmative. So around 9 p.m., Howell here, Franklin, and Gordon Marlowe, they come back, they come back to the mobile. They just stopped by to see if he'll drive later tonight. He said, yes, they leave. Okay. Okay. Okay.

They come back again, and Horton goes outside to. talk to them and Howell again asks him, can you drive for me tonight? I need you to drive me tonight. So Horton said that now he understood, once he got near them, he understood why they wanted that because he said they were, quote, he could smell that they were, quote, doing lacquer thinner. Doing lacker thinner. They put a verb on lacquer thinner. They're doing it. Thinner. They're doing thinner, Jimmy. This is not even gasoline. This is fucking lacquer thinner. Huffing thinner.

Huffing thinner. I mean, we tried that in Woodshop in like the ninth grade for two seconds. We're like, well, that makes you really lightheaded. That sucks. Not a big huffer. They're huffing it so much. You could smell it on.

You could smell it on them. And they're planning on it being a big night of huffing. That's why they needed to be driven. So they could do more lacquer thinner. And that's what he said. He said he could smell it. And so he was like, well, I guess I'll drive these two idiots around while they do lacquer thinner in the back of the fucking truck, okay?

We need a driver. We're twisting off that Thompson's. We're all lacquered up right now. You mean liquored up? No, not even. Lackard up. We lacquered. We're twisting off that water seal, man.

Wow. Well, it's lacquer thinner, so it strips that shit. It strips lacquer. And they're like, let's smell it until we're hot. Real deep. Yeah. What the fuck, man. Sniff it.

You can't spell. I can't remember what book it was, but there was a book describing, they were describing this cook who was working in this kitchen. He was like out of prison and he was covered in tattoos and all the other cooks that he did thinner. And that was like they were all scared of him because he sniffed thinner all the time. That's what these guys are doing. Oh, God. So, Horton, John Horton, agrees to drive and he goes back into the house to get rid of the trailer to get dressed.

You get dressed for the evening. You've got to really put your best on when you're taking two idiot tire shop workers out for a lacquer party. You're really got to, you got to really dress up. So Horton says that he assumed that they wanted him to drive so that they could continue to sniff lacquer thinner. To do lacquer. Okay, fine. To do thinner. Keep doing thinner.

Getting lacquered up. So it's amazing. This is like groundhog for breakfast when they're talking about. I mean, there's drugs and there's things to huff, and this is like I'm out of every useful thing to fuck me up. Let's go out to my grandpa's shed. I'm out of model glue. See if there's anything strong. The fuel tank for the lawnmower was empty.

There had nothing. They said lacquer thinner. Damn. They lack her self-awareness, Jen. They lack her a lot of it. This is episode 740. We've never had, and we deal with the trashiest of the trash on this show. We have never had two men fucking sniffing thinner as their entertainment for the night before.

Have we? No, it's not even just like their last ditch effort. This is their plan so much so that they hired a drive. Yes. They started doing it earlier and they're going to continue doing thinner for the rest of the night. Not even stopping at a six-pack thinner. Okay. So they get into, Horton says, he and Franklin Howell and Gordon Marlowe get into Howell's pickup truck with Howell driving for some reason.

The whole point is so Horton drives, but Howell's driving now. What do you want to bet this is a single cab pickup? They leave. It probably is. It's 1989. There wasn't a lot of extended cabs back then. This is three idiots. On a bench seat.

Bet your ass. Well, two of them passed. And you know that this guy's in the middle. Horton's in the middle because he's the last to come. So they're passing the thinner over him. Okay. Don't spill it on me. They leave the house.

Horton said that when he gets in, he noticed that Franklin Howell's 22 caliber bolt action rifle is in the cab as well. Which is not odd or out of the ordinary for this area either. Horton had seen the gun and he even fired the gun previously. He knows the gun well. He knows it's his gun. Horton says that Franklin Howell was wearing camouflage clothing and that Gordon Marlowe was dressed in all black, black pants and black shirts.

They couldn't decide what environment they were going to try to blend into. The woods or the night. They can't decide. They do know that they're going to be trying to disappear here shortly. They shouldn't stand next to each other no matter what, because one of them is going to stand out, whatever the occasion is. They're in the woods, if they're out there. So the three men rode around for about 30 to 45 minutes.

Now, at this point, during this time, Howell here, Franklin, asked Gordon Marlowe, you know anywhere where we could find easy money. So they're going back and forth trying to figure out how to not sniff thinner anymore and do actual drugs probably. And yeah. So they're discussing back and forth about places they could get easy money, basically. Jesus. At midnight in the country.

A job tomorrow. That's probably the easiest. That's what I would say, yeah. Thinner doesn't make you tired, I guess? No. Is there a hangover from that shit? Gotta be a little one of those. I painted a bathroom with primer that was oil base that I got on accident.

Sleep for two days. I was destroyed. I've never been more fucked up and hating myself. Jimmy was a physicist before that. That happened when he was 18. He was like he had a MIT scholarship. Everything was much different. Yeah, he was amazing.

The diction he had was just top notch. So eventually, Howell asked Horton to drive. Take over for me. I'm all, I'm thinnered out right now. Too lacquered to drive. Knackard, no lacquered. The English like to say knackard. No lacquered.

So Horton says that Franklin Howell went to the end of a dirt road. near what he later learned was the Grice residence. So, okay. I thought it was paved, but apparently it's not at this point. It's a loose word, pay. Yeah, pavement's worn off by now. So now Howell and Marlowe, Gordon and Franklin, Marlowe here, who has the rifle with them, they get into the back of the truck.

So they climb out and get into the bed of the truck. That is the more fun place to drive. Well, you drive, especially when you're all thinner. up. That's the way to do it. Yeah, we got to feel like we're being chauffeered round. We've got to get in the back. We're getting out in the back. And then when you have that window open and when the driver's talking and you want to act like you're better than them, you just slide it shut. You're like, boom, take that. We're going to need some privacy back here, sir. And some champagne. Thank you very much. So Horton says that Howell, Franklin Howell, spoke to him through the rear sliding window of

the cab. So he's literally the little window. It is definitely a single cab. Fuck, yes, it is. and told, I don't think, there wasn't a lot of extended cabs in 89. That was like a 90s invention. And it wasn't necessarily like a full cab. There was a smaller cab back there. They had like the folding seats that come down. They had them on like the duly's and shit,

but like a normal residential pickup truck that wasn't like a four-door wasn't common. No, no, no, no, not the four-door at all. So, I mean, I'm sure they existed, but they weren't like the common thing on the road, especially if, I'm sure they're not driving a brand-new truck. This is probably a... This is a 72.

A 72 where they definitely didn't have any extended on any cab. So you couldn't even move this fucking seat back. It was just the benches in this position. Enjoy. They're in a permanent position. Yep. So he's telling him through the rear window to drive slowly down the dirt road because he and Gordon were going to jump out. Don't stop anywhere.

Just drive slowly and we'll jump out of a moving car. Howell, Franklin Howell also tell him. tells Horton that after he and Gordon Marlowe jumped out, what he needs Horton to do is circle the dirt road twice, do two circles, and then we would, we're going to jump back into the rear of the truck as you're doing the second circle.

This is going to be timed perfectly. This is a real operation here. Now, Howell further tells Horton that if Horton doesn't see them on the second time, he is to go down rural paved road 1934 to a red ball. barn where they'd all meet up. Why don't we just do that?

That seems easier. Why don't I have to circle twice and you hop in a moving car? So Horton said that he slowly proceeded down the dirt road adjacent to the Grice residence and that Gordon and Franklin jumped out. As they did so, Horton heard one of them. He doesn't know who, but one of them say, let's get it over with. Okay. as the two men ran in the direction of the Grice residence,

Horton said that Howell had something tucked under his arm and that Gordon Marlowe had the rifle. So that's where that's going. Horton said he drove down the dirt road for about one and a half miles until it intersected with a paved road, which would be unpaved road number, whatever the fuck, I'm sure. The paved rural road number 1934 is unpaved. Anybody have a problem with you?

that besides me. Is that breaking your brains out there? Please tell me. It's like they call it that to keep the foreigners out. Something like that, man. Tourists. Wow. So, then after it intersected with a paved road, he turned left on the paved

road and looped back around to the start of the dirt road at the intersection next to the Grice Residence. So big sort of. Like a race track. Like a big old racetrack. Now, Horton said that he didn't see anyone, so he looped around again. Running like Daytona. On the second time around, he sees Marlowe, just Marlowe, running across the field with the rifle.

He's running across the field. Marlowe jumped into the back of the truck and told Horton, turn around and go back to the end of the dirt road and turn left on rural paved road 1934. And Horton said he did just that. Now, when he got to the barn between the Grice and Daniels' residences, that is, by the way, their daughter, Grice's daughter that she went to go see. Marlowe screamed, slow down. And at that point, here comes Franklin Howell, jumps back into the back of the truck again. Okay. So Horton proceeds down the road until it intersected Highway 39.

And then Howell and Marlow got back into the cab part of the truck out of the back and, you know, tried to do some more thinner. So Horton then says once Gordon and Franklin were inside the cab, Franklin Howell asked, quote, who reloaded it? And Marlowe responded he had. He said, I did. So Horton said that as he drove back to his trailer, Howell and Marlowe were just joking and carrying on about murdering somebody.

Oh, my God. Just having a good old time about it. once back at the trailer, the Horton trailer, the Horton Tammy Tommy trailer, Marlowe pulled out a black bag and threw it into the glove compartment. Yeah.

Horton said that bag sounded like it had change in it, like he threw a change bag in there. Okay. So obviously, if they robbed the place, they really made out big. Oh, big haul. Because 70-year-old retired carpenters who live in trailers on unpaved,

paved rural roads really have it all. They have stacks of cash to take all the time. Well, it's pirate gold. Probably. It's worth more than cash, really. Yeah, if you dig. Well, the price of gold goes up all the time. It's outrageous.

That works. So as Horton walked around the truck, he saw a duffel bag with a tape player inside, which, by the way, will later be identified as belonging to the grises. Oh, what? A tape player and some change is what they got out of this. Big, big day. So Horton said, that he went into the trailer and went to bed at that point.

Now, the next day, apparently somehow Tommy Ray had heard what happened and knew the details and told Horton what had happened, what he heard had happened, and even drove him past the Grice trailer to say that's where it was. And he was like, oh, yeah, this is the road we were on. So then, two weeks after, apparently two weeks after the murder, Howell's truck was searched. Now, they're still not in custody yet, but their truck was searched, and they discovered the gun and also found Mrs. Grice's tape player. But didn't arrest these guys somehow. You have the murder weapon and the booty from the fucking robbery. That's, I don't know how much more evidence you need.

Not enough, man. Then finally, June 18, 1989, as soon as Horton gets out his last sentence, they go and arrest both of these guys. because now they have an eyeball witness saying exactly what happened and everything else. Now, so this day they're both arrested on June 18, 89. Franklin Dwayne Howell, he was an interesting arrest. FD. Oh, yeah, FDH. He was arrested at his residence here on charges of first degree burglary and first degree murder.

Yeah. Now, this isn't one cop coming to the door to arrest somebody for first degree murder. This is, they bring a tea. This is like a bunch of guys, basically. A lot of guys come to the front door because you never know. And you know the guy shot somebody, so he might be dangerous. He comes to the door with a 44 revolver drawn. Comes to the door with a fucking hand cannon pointed at the cops.

That's how. Howell's house? Yeah, this is how Howell opens the door. Oh, boy. That's the greeting the police receive. Now, all the cops are armed, but none of them draw their pistols. Take it easy, Tacklevery. Wow, that's amazing.

I feel like he'd be shot in three seconds now, right? Well, they'd at least have him out. Something. I don't know if they thought that would escalate the situation or what, but two of the deputies had warrants and they arrested him. So once he realized what was going on, he put the pistol down and he was arrested without incident. So the detective, Tommy Beasley, advises him that he had information that his 19-1stance. 77 Ford truck. I think my grandfather

had the exact, had a 1977 Ford truck that he always drove, always. Is that the one that's the unibody, that the bed is attached to the truck? Oh, no. I think it's earlier. Yeah, I think it is. I think it's like 60. It's close. It was two-tone

and had a red stripe, a cap on the back he had, and his license plate said happiness as being Italian. That was his fucking, that was his fucking that was his truck that was his license plate holder said that very funny San General Food Fest

It's where it's from Yeah So his 1977 Ford truck Blue and white in color Had been used as transportation In the Grice case That's what they're telling him right away We don't know if you're involved

But definitely know it worked That's what happened So he said that his truck License plate CRK 9745 It was his truck So they said is that your truck? He said yes.

So then he tells him that he's going to do an inventory of the vehicle and have it stored as evidence. And they said, okay. We're going to impound it, basically. Yeah, we're going to take it. And that's when they found them. So I guess that it was just wrong. The two weeks after the murder part was just wrong. That was from a different article.

A lot of times articles will mess stuff up like that. So anyway, he said to the detective, okay. Now, later on, he said that he also understood that the detective was going to be. to search his truck. Another cop went over and read to him the permission to search premises and auto form and introduced that to him as well. You've got to sign this piece of paper and all that. It was signed below the last paragraph, witnessed by multiple deputies and officers.

And he even signed they didn't coerce or threaten or promise anything or any of that shit. Now, if a cop asks you to look in your car, would you have any inference that whatever they find is bad for me. Probably. Especially if they said we think your truck's been used in a murder, we'd like to look through it. They're not just looking for a dime bag in there. No, they're not looking to exonerate you. No, certainly not.

So there is a guy here that they talk to that is Kermit Matthews. He's their boss, both of these idiots tire shop boss. Kermit is the tire boss. Tire boss, big boss, Kermit Matthews. He said that he employed those two guys. his tire business. He said that he believes that both Gordon Marlow and Franklin Howell went to Virginia on May 1st, 89, to pick up a load of tires. He said, if they had traveled to Virginia that day, they would have left around 3 a.m. and returned home anywhere from 6 to 8 p.m., which

6.30 is when they showed up at Horton's place saying, would you drive me tonight and then take it off and coming back later, smelling them thinner. So that all fits into that. All day. All day. That's a long trip to Virginia there. That's a Christ. It's like a 15, 16 hour round trip. And then you get back and get twisted on the lacquer? You want to do thinner and shoot people and drive on unpaved paved roads. I want to go to bed. That's what I would want to do. But March 13th, 1990, they're both arrested. It looks like there's going to be some pleas being taken here. Oh. A judge called the cases of them. Here, the counsel for Marlowe said that the defendant has authorized me to tender in his behalf a plea of guilty to second-degree murder as well as a plea of guilty to first-degree burglary, robbery with a dangerous weapon, and felonious conspiracy to commit burglary. The defense attorney here, Howell's defense attorney, the other guy, then entered his pleas too, which was the plea of guilty to first-degree murder and all the others.

So the judge said he could not accept a plea from Howell to first degree murder, absent to finding that the state had no evidence of any aggravating circumstances. Basically, you can't put yourself in a death penalty pinch, is what they're saying. Okay. So if the state has no aggravating evidence, that means there won't be a death penalty thing. Then you can plead guilty to first degree murder, but you can't put yourself in the electric chair, basically. Sure. That's the way they say, or on the fucking gurney or her. wherever you want to put it. So the district attorney then said that this proposed plea arrangement is a package as far as I'm concerned and is contingent the one upon the other. So he says,

if the judge won't accept Howell's plea, then we won't accept Marlowe's plea either. Is that right? Yeah. They either both plea together the way we want them to or we're going to trial with both. We all start, yeah. So they bring up Marlowe, Gordon Marlowe's polygraph. Apparently, during the examination, he was inconclusive on the questions directed to him as whether or not he was, in fact, the person who shot Leland Grice. So first they say they're going to have joint trials. They're going to join the defendants for trial. That's what they're doing. Then it becomes a political thing out of nowhere.

It becomes a political thing because there's a big article. The DA's murder cases are to be surveyed. There's an accusation that the DA picks and chooses who he imposes death penalties on, or not imposes, but tries to impose death penalties on. Based on criteria? A judge has ordered an independent survey of all murder cases prosecuted by district attorney John Twizzdale after a lawyer charged he had been selective in pursuing the death penalty. There's people he doesn't like. I don't know what it is or it's racial or it's whatever. The judge here granted the lawyer Jack O'Hale's request that the court pay for research into all murder cases tried in Twinsdale's district, Twisdale's district, since the state reenacted the death penalty.

So they said that in his motion, the lawyer said that since 77, Twisdale has sought the death penalty in only two cases in the 11th judicial district, which includes Johnston, Hartnett, and Lee counties. and the rest, the district attorney had allowed the defendants to plead to lesser charges. So the result is a policy that discriminates against defendants who choose a jury trial. So they're saying, yeah, we'll give you a sweetheart deal if you just say you did it. You know, it'll be life in prison or 30 years or whatever, but otherwise it's going to be the death penalty we're going for you. So that gets a lot of people to plead guilty. Certainly, yeah. Sometimes even if they're not, that's the problem.

And we found that since then with a lot of DNA shit. So they said Twizzdale, who's been the district attorney since 71, declined to discuss the matter. The other lawyer who filed this also declined to comment. He is Marlowe's lawyer, though. Gordon Marlowe's lawyer is the guy who filed all this shit. So that's how this works. Now, May 5, 1990, they now come out. The Tom Locke, who's a candidate for district attorney, against the guy that they're,

investigating. He supported this action to look into his cases, but he says it's not politically motivated. No. I'm just a good guy. I'm just a good guy. That's all it is. So he said, quote, I had nothing to do with the defense attorney representing one of the co-defendants. It was filed without my prior knowledge. Just because I'm into it. You know, doesn't mean I'm a dick here. Just because I like it. Yeah. So they said that bears two apparent signatures. The problem is the adopting motions that did this bear two signatures. One is the attorney, O'Hale. The other is Thomas Locke, the guy who's saying he had nothing to do with it. He didn't even know about it. He signed the original papers. Yeah, it appeared. The time of 11.15 a.m. appeared on the motion filed by O'Hale in cursive handwriting. The time shown in the Lock Howell was stamped on the documentation. Now, the DA is saying that this is politically motivated. It's been leaked to the media and all this type of shit.

When they asked Locke, did you leak it to the media or how did it get out to the media? He said, I have no idea. The Smithfield Herald ran the story the week of the court hearing. These things are a matter of public record. Maybe they looked into it. Who knows here? So he also said the law enforcement in the 11th district typically selects the most serious charge to levy against the accused person, which is just how it is. That's just the law.

Whenever you're watching interrogation, they're like, you're going to be charged with the highest murder now immediately and then we'll figure it out from there. Yeah, when they say we'll throw the book at you, they already did. Yeah, they're definitely trying it. So, yeah, they said the superior court judge now has given the go ahead to prosecute both men here for the death penalty. Basically, rejecting the defense content. intention that a DA uses the threat of the death penalty to get plea deals out of people. So they say no. The judge says the district attorney has not used the threat of capital prosecution to chill a

defendant's right to trial by jury or chill or interfere with the exercise of any other constitutional rights by defendants. I mean, they do, but I think it's more like they're saying that's kind of a loud gamesmanship is what it seems like because they absolutely do that. absolutely fucking do that. That's without a doubt.

It's bait to get you to not go to trial. Yeah. You plead to all this shit or I'm going to go for the death penalty. I'm like, oh,

well, that sounds like a long drawn out process. It's kind of the whole point of this whole system that we built. He said

Marlowe and Howell have not been singled out for capital prosecution and are not being treated differently than any other defendants charged

with murder have been treated. Okay. Well, that's not what's his attorney say. They say, uh, the judge said here, many attorneys, um, he said, uh, and none indicated that they felt their client had been selectively prosecuted. He said he interviewed a bunch of attorneys and they felt like, you know, that it's been fair prosecution. Um, he said there was, had been

five cases in which defendants had exercised their right to trial by jury and were not tried for their lives. So they're like, some of them actually don't get, you know, they don't push for the death penalty. So yeah, the judge says not going to have that. There's a hearing then of motions before the judge. And the state announced now the intention of trying the defendant separately. Oh. With Gordon Marlowe coming up first.

So that's how they're going to do it. May 3, 1991, they try to, the defense tries to put a motion to enforce the plea agreement. Hey, we had a fucking plea deal and they backed out of it. So let's enforce that. The judge said, no, can't do that. He said the district attorney did have discretionary authority to enter into negotiated pleas among multiple defendants in package deal. So that's not illegal to require a package deal. Then the state formally made a motion to sever the cases, and that's how it goes.

Marlowe's trial comes up here, Gordon Marlowe. Horton is the star witness in both trials, obviously. He was there. So he testifies over constant objections to two conversations that he had on May 2nd the day after the murders with Franklin Howell in the presence of Tommy Ray, his sister's boyfriend. Right. In response to the prosecutor's question, did you have a conversation with Howell? He said, I asked him, did him and Gordon have anything to do with the death of Mr. Grice? And the prosecutor said, in response to the prosecutor's question, don't say anything he said.

As a result of any answer he gave you, did you make any further comments to him? So they're saying don't do hearsay right now. So don't say anything he said is what the prosecutor said. Did you respond to that in another way? Did you make any other further comments? And Horton said, I told him the best thing to do is to not come back around, to stay away. He said, then he said right before we left, Franklin Howell came out with that particular tape player and a black one and tried to give it to me and Tommy, the stolen tape player. Horton then said that he saw Howell later the same afternoon, again with Tommy Ray presence, but in the absence of Gordon, of Gordon, Marlowe.

And Horton asked him straight up, did he kill Mr. Grice? and then again the prosecutor said don't tell me what he said as a result of him saying that did he make any response to you but don't tell me

was it yes or no just tell me did he answer the question oh so don't say what he said just say if he said an answer and Horton said yes and he said as a result of that did you respond anything to him

because if he said no that would be a totally different response so now you can tell what he said without getting hearsay This is the way of getting around hearsay, which is clever. It's pretty good. It's just giving half the script. You know what I mean?

Yeah. You could make an inference of what, why don't I use that word again? You could decide what the other person said based on. We've all heard of a one-sided phone conversation. You know what's going on after three minutes, don't you? Oh, yeah. Sometimes you can, you know exactly who's on the other end, too. Absolutely.

Yeah, you can tell. That's the attendance office. I'm fucked. I'm fucked out of law. Oh, really? you get that. Yes, this is so-and-so. How many hours was he missing?

Oh, shit. What time was that? And then they start looking at you while they're talking and you're like, oh, shit. When your mom would look at you while being on the phone, you know you're in deep shit.

Ah, shit. So he said, as a result of that, did you respond to anything? And he said, again, I told him to leave and not come back around, which would infer that he said he did kill the person

because if he said he didn't, he wouldn't say, well, you need to take off if you didn't kill a guy. Horton then says, said that Howell tried to give him a $20 bill. Here, take that. That should smooth it over.

This is my lacquer budget for the next week, and I'm giving it to you. Giving him a thinner money. $20. $20. $20 to shut up about the murder. You didn't hear shit, did you? Yeah, nothing, did you? $20.

Then he gave him a thimble full of thinner, and he was like, that sweet in the deal, any? Yeah. You give that to a parking attendant. They're telling the cops everywhere that car went. damn place. But he gave it back, he said. Didn't accept the 20. He said, no. He said he didn't know anything about the Grice murder until he heard the news the following morning. He said that he described the activities. The whole thing we told you, dropping them off, driving around, who was carrying the rifle, who was doing what, the bag of black bag full of change, a duffel bag with a tape

player, all that shit. They get Tommy Ray up on the stand. And first they argue that the trial court erred by overruling the objection to Ray's answer of this testimony. Question, what happened after you pointed out to Horton that that was the trailer that Mr. Grice had been killed in the night before? Answer, he couldn't believe it. Another question, when he said he couldn't believe it, do you say anything to indicate that to you? And he said, quote, he just started shaking.

He didn't know what was going on or anything. Now, Ray's testimony corroborated Tammy Horton's testimony, John Horton's sister. Tammy also testified that she had asked Howell whether he was responsible or part of the death of Mr. Grice as well. So that's how it goes. Now, this doesn't look good. They have the murder weapon, stolen shit, and an eyeball witness and other eyeball witnesses who, after the fact, heard about it and was told about it by the murders. This is not a good case for the defense. That's why they were willing to plea.

Yeah, that's why you take the plea. Yeah. Witnesses and the weapon. That's bad. That's bad. And the product of the robbery. It's all the elements are right there. So the verdict comes in and he has found guilty of first-degree murder and second-degree

burglary, first-degree burglary and robbery with a dangerous weapon. Those are called aggravators. Those are called aggravators. That is not good. Now, during sentencing here, he doesn't have much to say, but he's lucky. You, sir, may fuck off life in prison for murder. Wow. And consecutive sentences of three years for conspiracy to commit second-degree burglary,

15 years for first-degree burglary, and 14 years for robbery with a dangerous weapon, all consecutive. I don't think he's ever getting out, man. It doesn't seem like a 15, 14, that's 29, and then another three. So that's 32 right there plus life. He's only like 22 at this time, but still, you ain't going anywhere, my friend. Even if you do 40% of that, you're going to be there the rest of your life. A long time. So then there's the Howell trial, exact same evidence.

Yeah. They also take issue with the testimony. This one's a little different of Ruby Grice and her daughter as well, describing Mr. Grice's physical condition and work history in response to questions by the prosecutor. They're saying you're just. putting stank on it now. Sure, that he couldn't fight back and all that kind of shit. Because his whole thing is provocation.

He's saying, this guy made me shoot him. That's what they're trying to say in this case. And they're trying to say, no, he didn't because he's like kind of disabled and not really, he wouldn't try to fight a 22-year-old who's holding a rifle probably. This is not capable of it. This element, it was relevant because it had a tendency to make the existence of a physical confrontation between them less likely, a physical confrontation the state contends could be some evidence of provocation on part of the victim.

Even if it's 2%, that might be enough to get him out of the needle out of his arm. Sure. They said the defendant, on the other hand, argues that the evidence is irrelevant and prejudicial, and the defendant, but there was no objection to it at trial, official objection. Really? During the closing, the prosecutor says the defendant argued that the prosecutor, but later on, made a number of improper arguments, including serious factual misstatements, urging the jury to convict the defendant on the basis of completely irrelevant considerations.

Okay. That's called lying. You can't do that. That's what they're saying here. One of the things they said that he contends there was no evidence to support was the prosecutor's argument that Mrs. Grice knew something was, quote, wrong because Mr. Grice hadn't called that night down at the house, down at her daughter's house.

He argues that the prosecutor's argument urging the jury to act as the voice of the community went beyond permissible limits, encouraging the jury to convict the defendant based on irrelevant considerations. Every trial, they say that. Every trial. That's just standard. Be the voice of this community and dispatch the justice. Exactly. So, anyway, verdict comes in, guilty, first degree murder, robbery with a dangerous weapon, burglary first degree, and conspiracy to commit burglary. in the first degree.

So they return all of this. Oh, also dangerous weapon things. And the apparently robbery with the dangerous weapon and first degree burglary are predicate felonies that go on to the as aggravators here too. Oh. So during sentencing, the court here submitted to the jury statutory aggravating circumstances that Mr. Grice, the murder was committed for monetary gain. And whether the murder was committed while.

the defendant was engaged in the commission of a burglary. And the jury answered both to, yes, to both of those. Mitigating circumstances, they presented evidence through witnesses. Two Sheriff's Department employees testified that Franklin was very cooperative and pleasant in jail. Virginia Howell, his half-sister, said that he was a great brother and got along well with his grandparents. His mother, Patricia Oliver, testified that he was her oldest child and that his father beat both. of them. So she divorced him. She also said that his sister Mindy had terminal cancer and that he was the only person who could save her because his bone marrow matches hers. So you can't kill him because he's the only person who can give bone marrow to his sister. Oh, that's a sticky one. She also says she thinks the Marines messed him up. Because he was in the Marines for a minute and it messed him up. So the jury says, you said, may fuck off death penalty. For you and your sister.

You, your sister, all he is. In addition to that, 40 years for robbery with a dangerous weapon, 50 years for first-degree burglary, and three years for conspiracy to commit burglary. So why did he get it so hard? Tack on another 93 years there. They thought he was the main guy. Yeah, he was the driver here. So anyway, Marlow appeals based on a bunch of different factors that we don't have time to get into here.

one of which was they were talking about the polygraph, and they say it didn't come up in court anyway, so the fact that he took it makes no difference to the fact that he was arrested. The plea agreement also, he's saying they didn't allow his plea agreement that he had. They said that the proposed agreement between the defendant and state had no effect as a matter of law because it had not been approved by the trial judge, prejudicial testimony, saying that John Horton, they committed error by letting him admit. say certain things up there. Horton's oral assessment that he told Howell to not come back around to stay away, they said that was just a trick to get around hearsay and should be counted as hearsay. But that's all lawyering is, is finding ways around things and what goes here. And that's what a lawyer is.

Avoiding it, but kind of doing it. Here are the rules. How can I get around them? That's what it is. And then unless they make a law against that, That's still allowed. That's the law. But Howell's actions of attempting to give Horton the tape player and later attempting to give him a $20 bill were nonverbal assertions also constituting hearsay.

I've never heard of nonverbal hearsay before. You can't hear shrug. The say is the part. Hear say. It would be what? C, fucking. C do. C do.

Right. C motions. Yeah. Your honor. Objection, C-DU. That's a C gesture right there, sir. Yeah, that is what that is. Now, an exception to the hearsay rule is a statement by one co-conspirator made during the course and in furtherance of the conspiracy.

That's admissible against conspirators. But they're saying that the conspiracy was active, but it ended that night. So anything said that night, you can say what they said, because that's during the whole thing. But the next day, the conspiracies ended. So now that shit is not, shouldn't be allowed. in basically. And they're like, that is really splitting hairs and no. So, yeah, they said the admission of those statements, though, they end up saying they, some of them were in error, but they said that they were not prejudiced by their, he was not prejudiced by their admission.

Didn't change anything. So keep fucking off life in prison. Howell appeals about the death sentence here. They said they find no reversible error in the pretrial or the, you know, guilt innocence phase. here. But they find error in the sentencing phase, and we'll find out here why. They said the court erred by allowing Johnny Morgan to act as de facto lead counsel in violation of the rules and regulations relating to the appointment of counsel for indigent defendants in a death penalty case. No attorney shall be appointed to represent at the trial level any indigent defendant charged with a capital crime who has less than five years experience in the general practice of law. That's the thing.

Now, James Levinson was appointed lead counsel, and the other guy, the Morgan guy, who was licensed in September 87, so not even five years ago, was the assistant counsel. In April 91, Levinson moved and was allowed to withdraw as counsel, and the court appointed the other guy. So that's how it worked. So they're like, well, you can't really do that. So anyway, they said that both attorneys, a different attorney, those are the inexperienced guy and another guy they assigned here. They said they would both serve as lead counsel, and it turns into a fucking mess.

So basically you're not allowed to do that. Also, the court didn't allow more evidence of provocation. What do you mean? They said that his statements basically said that they didn't allow him to say that that this guy that Leland Grice caused it himself. Oh. He wasn't going to shoot him, but Lila made him have no choice, basically, provocation.

Which is not for innocence, but that is for to not. To get rid of the aggravator. To mitigate it a little bit. Yeah. But they said that he died of a gunshot wound to the head, which entered behind his left ear. So how do you provoke somebody from the turn around? This doesn't make fucking sense at all.

But they did find out that apparently in a split decision, the court said jurors should not have considered that the slaying was committed during a burglary and that it was done for financial gain as separate factors leaning toward the death sentence. So they upheld the conviction, knocked down the fucking sentence. Really? So he's re-sentenced to life in prison. Keep fucking off. But do they, are they friends with Leland? Is it was there They had to know of him.

I think everybody knows of everybody here. Yeah. Because they have any, any personal interaction with Mac at all? That we're not sure of. This is, by the way, rural and not tremendously well covered. This was one of the most,

the longest it ever took to put together in our show was today, just to find everything and just pour through newspapers. I found in 2006, remember Patricia, what's her name,

Patricia Oliver, Howell's mom? Yeah. Howell's mom is trying to replace somebody as the state Supreme Court Clerk, and she's running in a primary for this. She said she doubts that any of the hiccups in her past will haunt her in the election. The article says she has explanations for it all. About her son, she says the U.S. Marine Corps ruined him. He came home a different person after a brief stint, she said.

She hints at this family wound in a radio ad, quote, I don't think anyone raises their children to be murderers and rapists. The ad never mentions her son or his murder conviction. You know what I mean. You know what I'm saying. But she said that she believes her son is, she wouldn't say whether she believes her son is innocent. She said, my belief is if you do the crime, you need to do the time. Now, Leelangreis's family super fucking pissed.

Carol Daniels, the one who live down the street, said it's an insult to the courthouse, an insult to the tax. payers and it's really an insult to this family. Oh, for her to be overturned? No, for her to run for something because her son's a murder. I don't think she's wrong. That's ridiculous, though. You can't control what the fuck. You can't control what you want.

You can't control what kids do. Put it this way. If you have five kids and they're all fuck-ups, your fault. If you have five kids, one of them's a fuck-up, that's not your fault. Something else happened there. She's got plural hiccups, she said. Plural hiccups. So currently, Gordon Marlowe is offender number 0256220.

He is at Davidson Correctional Facility, I guess. Here, let's see, I found his, yep, he has no date of release. Oh, wow. He's in there. He's in the regular population. Natural life. Has a lot of infractions. January 92, misusing medicine, April 92, fighting.

March 97, disobeying an old. order. March 97, misusing an unauthorized phone slash mail. 2001 substance possession. Uh-oh. 2020, disobeying an order and substance possession. Okay. So he's learned nothing. Franklin Howell, number 09, or I'm sorry, 0194-160.

He's at the Johnston Correctional Institute, also not going anywhere. And he has a couple, too. He has a disobeying and order, a fighting, misusing the mayor. and then another fighting in 2017. They got the same infractions. Yeah. This guy keeps fucking up. You're almost 60 years old.

You're fighting. What fuck is wrong with you? So there you go, everybody. That is North Carolina, Selma, North Carolina. And just a crazy case of a... Didn't need to happen at all. Nothing gained. There wasn't a lifelong beef.

There wasn't money. And for nothing. They got a radio some change. It may have cost him money if he tried to pay hush in a 20, he may come out upside down on the deal. I think so, especially with the, you figure the lacquer budget,

lacquer thinner budget in there too. It sits out. It's just expensive, right? It is. I would imagine so. So there you go, everybody. If you enjoyed that show, get on whatever app you are on,

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