Small Town Murder - The Ax Murder Zombie - Delmar, New York

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

This week, in Delmar, New York, a terrible ax murder is discovered inside a blood covered home, where one of the victims went into "autopilot", continuing his morning routine, while having horrific & mortal wounds. But the biggest surprise happens after a second victim is discovered. The killer turns out to be cold blooded, remorseless, flashy, and driving one of the most conspicuous vehicles that a person could drive. The interrogation is so bad, that it's used as an example by experts, but will that blow the whole case???   Along the way, we find out that a human sized otter character may scare kids, more than enchant them, that you shouldn't drive a bright yellow, jacked up Jeep to drive back & forth across ther state, if you don't want to be noticed, and that when you're dealing with a psychopath, you have to interrogate them a very particular way!!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!! Check us out on VIDEO Wednesday and Friday evenings on Netflix! www.netflix.com/smalltownmurder Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

This week, in Del Mar, New York, detectives find a bloody mess when an axe murderer strikes a home on a quiet street, leaving behind one of the strangest crime scenes ever and possibly just enough evidence to catch this depraved killer. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigal.

I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Whistman. Thank you, folks. so much for joining us today. It is a crazy story that we have for you today. Just a absolutely wild, messy, something we've never seen before today, which is wild. So we'll get into all that. It's going to be crazy stuff. Before we head to all of that craziness, though, definitely you should head over to shut up and give me murder.com to get tickets for your own craziness. Come see a live show, everybody. If you've never been to a live show, they are a blast. Comedy show, comedy show, comedy show,

comedy show with a murder and it's just so much fun. We can't wait to see it out there. You've never seen anything like it. Next, we're in a couple weeks here. What is it? September 18th at the PAPS to Milwaukee. I'm not sure if any tickets are left. We had released the rest of our holds.

Not sure. Minneapolis, the 19th State Theater. Get your tickets. October 3rd, Dallas. October 16th. San Jose, October 17th, Sacramento. And then Terrytown on November 13th, which is almost sold out. And then, of course, Medford.

Boston outside of Boston there. Snap them up. Let's go. Get those tickets right now. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you do all of that stuff. Also, listen to our other shows. I put out two shows. We think you love crime and sports.

You do not have to like sports. Trust us. You have to like crazy stories that are hilarious. So we got that. And then your stupid opinions. There's is. Tell me reviews aren't the most fun thing in the world, especially if you have us making fun of these idiots who are leaving them.

So it's so much fun. Check those out. Get yourself Patreon, too. That's where it's at. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. That's where you get all the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month or above, and you get so much. First of all, you're going to get a giant back catalog, almost 400 bonus episodes.

You've never heard before as soon as you subscribe. Then you get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder. And you get every damn drop of it, everybody. This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports. Definitely don't have to care about sports. We're going to do something about a guy named Lawnchair Larry. You know who that is?

Oh, who's that? This crazy guy in like the 1930s and 40s who tried to make a chair into an aerial device. It's the craziest thing ever. It's a wild. It's just a wild, fun, crazy story. We were all been wondering that for 100 years, I think. Then for Small Town Murder, Donner Party, Part 2. This week they start eating each other, everybody.

So check it out. It's going to be wild stuff. I can't wait for that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. And on top of all of that, you also get everything we put out. Crime and sports, your stupid opinions, both small town murders every week. All add free with your Patreon as well. Add free. Can't beat that.

And you also get a shout out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name. He'd love to get it correct, but, you know, names are tough. Hey, what are you going to do? Names are hard. They're difficult. So that said, disclaimer time. This is a comedy show, everybody.

We're comedians. Jokes are going to be made, and people are going to die because it's called small town. So it would be weird if they didn't. So that's how it works. You go, how do you make that happen? Very easily. That's the thing here. We do it very tastefully.

Like, that's how it is. Yeah, all you have to do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But. But we're not scumbags. That's it. That's all you have to do, because there's plenty to make fun of.

We'll make fun of some small town because we're all from somewhere that deserves a little mocking, a little ribbing. It's all in good fun. We'll make fun of some police force that lets a murderer kill more people. Why not? That's a screw up. We'll make fun of a murderer because we have no other recourse. We have nothing. We can't go to a prison and take his ramen noodles away.

We have nothing we can do. So we'll mock him. That's our particular skill set. So, yeah, that sounds good. You're going to hear a wild story. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, I don't know why you're here to begin with, but we think you might like it anyway. So give it a chance.

And also, you should do this. You should clear the lungs. What do you say here? Let's go. Arms to the sky, everybody. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody.

What a crazy ritual we have every week. It really is insane. So ridiculous. So ridiculous. We found out that there is an Etsy producer. We wanted to have some things made for our studios and stuff like that. And they refused to make our stuff because it says you, sir, may fuck off and shut up and give me murder. And they said they're a family business.

So from my family to yours, kindly lick my family's balls, you fucking weirdos. You're fucking morals because you won't swear. fuck you. I hope your fucking mortgage is real late this month because you don't need money. Imagine moving that much Etsy shit that you can parse between morality of swear words. Eat my shit. Fuck you. That's on the other ones they refuse.

They wouldn't do that either. No, I'm kidding. All right. Let's go on a trip. We're going to Del Mar, New York, everybody. Delmar, New York, D-E-L-M-A-R, New York. It is a hamlet inside the town of Bethlehem. Oh.

So sing your Christmas songs, as you will here. It's all year long. It's up by Albany here. It's eastern New York, right outside Albany in that capital region there, up the Hudson. It's about 15 minutes outside Albany. So right there. Albany, by the way. Is that near where Woodstock was?

It's in between. Woodstock is also, I think, across the river Woodstock. Oh, that's Bethel. Bethel, yeah. Bethel Woods. the original actual Woodstock was. Yeah. And then they had the Bethel shows after that always every year.

They still do. They still, yeah, when I was a teenager, that was a big deal. Yeah. It's also, it's two hours and 45 minutes to New York City. And about four hours to Pembroke, New York, if you remember, that was over by Rochester, Buffalo, which is actually important to know the distance here for this episode. That was episode 684, the murderer mayor, which was insane. The guy trying to be mayor murdering people. Which, I mean, you're murdering your voters.

That's not going to help. It's more some down. One less vote at that point. So this is in Albany County. Area Code 518. A little bit of history here is we got a lot of story to get to. Nathaniel Adams moved to the area in 1836 and then built a large hotel and made some other improvements. He was the first postmaster in 1840 when the post office was built.

The Adams Hotel was Bethlehem. Hems Town Hall also in the 1800s, 1950 to 1980. They just used that as the town hall. Now, for Nathaniel Adams, Del Mar received its name of Adamsville, which was the original name. It got a post office, but then I guess the story is that mail started to get confused with Adams, New York, which also had an Adams village, which is confusing. Now, by the way, this reminds me, I apparently screwed up some of the Wisconsin stuff last week and mixed up my spring brooks on a couple of them. This is why you say, no, there's already another one of those and you don't do it because then you don't confuse podcasts. There's 150 goddamn years from now over where the fucking shit was. Just spit all over my thing.

Certainly in the forefront of them. Damn it. They had no respect for me sitting there three in the morning trying to figure out which is which. So anyway, it was changed to Adam Station in an attempt to relieve the confusion, but apparently they just decided to name it Del Mar. And they can't figure out why they named it Del Mar. Okay. Because there's already one of those, too, on the other side of the country. There's tons of them.

There's one in Maryland. There's Delaware, Maryland. There's that one. We've done an episode there. All right. The town historian, Susan Leith, said it's so frustrating. There's got to be something out there hidden in the depths of the DNA. Railroad Archives, but they don't know.

Okay. Now, Del Mar started being treated as a census-designated place in 1980, where they would do census here. There's that. Now, they did not include the town of Delmar in the 2010 census for some reason. We're not sure why. In 2005, CNN Money Magazine named Delmar, the zip code here, which is, you know, larger area, one of the best places to live in America,

rating it 22nd in the best place to live. It was called Great American Towns. So let's find out from some reviews what people think here. These are reviews for Bethlehem, the town of Bethlehem here. Five stars. Great and safe place to live. Friendly neighbors and schools nearby. Everyone helps each other.

Small town field, but close to highways and downtown Albany. That's wonderful. It's terrific. Three stars. It's a very typical suburb with stay-at-home moms and lots of cookie-cutter houses. I'm a single mom, so I don't fit in anywhere, really. I moved here strictly for the school district for my daughter. It's very expensive, and if you're not a typical, quote, family, it doesn't feel very homey. However, it's close to the Adirondacks, only two and a half hours to the city and not terribly far from the beach. I can fly out of JFK to get cheaper flights, even direct to Honolulu.

What does this have to do with this town? What are you talking about? Overall, this is a pretty boring town compared to other places I've lived. Honolulu, Telluride, Bar Harbor, Burlington, San Diego, and other destination towns. But it's decent. You've lived in all the most expensive places in the country. And the most beautiful, all of them. Yeah.

She left out Martha's Vineyard. Otherwise, she had it pretty much Carmel, otherwise she had it down. And then two stars, very simple. Albany is a culinary disaster. That's a culinary disaster. Shit restaurants. Okay. People, and this is for the, these stats are for the zip code of 112.5.4, which is kind of

also encompasses a bit outside Delmar proper here. Population 17,100. Wow. Yeah, and that's a decent size town. More women than men, 51.8% women, which is way out of whack for a big town that's not like in the middle of nowhere or not like a mining town or something. Median age, 42.6, about four or five years older than the national average. A lot of married people here, 57% married.

So it's a kind of a move up here, family suburbs, lower amount of people with children who are single. Race in this town, 91% white, 2.8% black, 2.8% Asian, 1.5% Hispanic. So that's what you get there. religion, 45% are religious. It's normally 50-50 in the rest of the country. And I'm going to shock you here, Jimmy. Yeah. Get ready to have your socks blown off.

Number one, it's Catholic. Strange. Yeah. As we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North, everybody. That's right. Of the North, you bet. Everywhere up here. Let's see, we got some Pentecostals, a couple of Methodists.

1.7% Jewish. Oh, my God. What? We get to sing a song, finally. It's been so long. Unbelievable. Mind-blowing. Hava.

Nagila. Nagila. Nagila. Havah. Nagila. I don't know the words. Hey. Hey.

There we go. I love that. Hey. Unemployment rate is low. Median household income here. $117,984 a year. So they're doing well. They're doing well.

It's normally $69,000 in the rest of the country. Yeah. Cost of living, 100 is average. is average regular. Here it is 99. So pretty close to average. And the median home cost is within $800 of the median home cost in the country. It's bright on the money. 338,900 bucks. But your buck stretches far. It stretches far. Farther. Yeah, absolutely. So there it is, everybody. If we've convinced you the Albany Capital region is the only place you'll be happy. We have for you the Delmar, New York Real Estate Report.

All right, your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,500, which, by the way, I just found out the U.S. average, because they've updated their stats. It's gone up. $1,430 for a two-bedroom rental in these countries. That is unbelievable. Here is a, very. Here's a three-bedroom, one bath, 1,076 square foot house. It's a cute little house. There's like a stone foundation.

Somebody slapped some siding on it at one point, but that's fine. Nice hardwood floors, a little porch. It's a nice little house, but small, 1,076 square feet on a small lot. $299,900 for that. Wow. Which, I mean, it's okay, I guess. Here's a three-bedroom. Steep, but it's a piece.

A little steep. Here's a three-bedroom, one bath, 1,528 square foot house. So this is like, you know, a couple of kids or something like that. It's a nice little old house built in 1831. So very almost 200 years. years old. Yep, on 0.35 acres, pretty decent. $379,000, and that's with a recent $6,000 price cut that just happened like two days ago.

Then, finally, here, a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,600-square-foot house on half an acre. It's kind of your typical suburban kind of home, you know, two-story, you know, with the little two-garages and everything. Nothing special. $725,000 for that house, though. It's in a very nice neighborhood. You can tell just by the yard that it's in a very nice name. All the bushes are perfectly crafted. It's one of those places.

You're going to hire a landscaper. Oh, you're not doing that yourself. You'd be so frustrated. The first time you made a lumpy circle, you'd be like, okay, I'm not doing this. Sorry. I have somebody about this. Yeah. I am hiring a guy.

Things to do here. The Five Rivers Fall Festival. Oh. Oh, yeah. Five Rivers. It's at the Five Rivers Environmental Education Center. Sounds like a lot of fun. It's a family day of nature fun.

Get offline, get outside, and have activities, it says. See Five Rivers. Let's do it. Interactive exhibits and activities. Ali the Otter will make an appearance. And there's a picture. Oh, Betty Will. Ollie the Otter, who's just a dude in an otter outfit with a hat on.

Oh, it's not a real honor. No, no, no, no. It is a man or a woman, I'm not sure, in an otter outfit wearing a hat. Yeah. That says Del Mar on it, so it's pretty ridiculous. Rockies is going to sue them. Yeah, for sure. Reptiles with Uncharted Wild from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m.

So get your reptiles in here. Crafts and games, food trucks, and live music, which for the life of me, I could not find. They said local bands. Damn it. They're not advertising. Anything. I'm really, I even looked on Facebook for, like, bands that were advertising. They were going to be there.

Couldn't find shit. So. Nobody's, nobody's telling anybody. Nobody's. They're not bragging about it. No. We're going to do a set with Ollie the Otter. It's going to be great.

It's a family-oriented environmental celebration featuring hands-on outdoor educational activities, interactive exhibits, guided walks, and more. Enjoy opportunities to meet live animals. Better than dead ones, I guess, and explore staffed exhibits from a wide range of local conservation partners. We'll have live music from local bands. Yeah. Oh, boy. Can't wait.

Held rain or shine. Free admission. Free parking and admission, but we do encourage carpooling. I'll tell me how to get there. All right. I mean, obviously, but still, that said, crime rate in this town. Here we go. We are interested in.

Property crime is about one third below the national average. So I'm pretty damn safe for that. And then violent crime, murder rape robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, also about one third below the national average. So that's all. That's it. Pretty safe. It's a little.

I figured it'd be safer. It's a little leafy suburb. Pretty safe. That's a third under the national average is pretty damn safe. Pretty good, yeah. Yeah, unless you're like in a really middle of nowhere place. It's the only place we find lower than that. So that said, let's talk about some murder, shall we?

Okay. Here we go. Okay. All right. Here we go. This is a lawyer later on in this case here. I am going to read their words about this town just to set the scene a little bit here. They described it like this.

A very pleasant little suburban enclave. A bunch of houses, a few stores, some churches, a couple liquor stores, a YMCA, a skating rinkin' little league fields. Yeah, it's a town. Throw a Walmart in there. Sounds great. That's a town. stuff. It was by the same lawyer's account that called it an essentially crime-free community. The Bethlehem Detective Bureau had four detectives and no homicide squad.

Wow. Nobody, they had like three murders. We're never going to need it. They had like three murders in 40 years. So it's not really. No squad at all for it. They just bring in the stateies when they have a problem. So they also said, I think there's been three homicides in the last 40 years.

So obviously, if there was a homicide squad, there were. be nothing for it to do. So this is a very safe town. Basically, he said the police force's daily work consists of drunk drivers and telling the 14 and 15-year-old kids with their skateboards to please get off the steps of the church. That's your job as a cop. Look for people weaving. Go by the church, see if the kids are trying to do rail slides down the fucking handrail and then go from there.

And then use your discretion on whether or not we ticket this man for the drinking. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe he's as close to home. He never know. He's going through some shit. Let's talk about some people. Let's introduce some people here. Okay, 2004 is when this whole mess is going to take place. Let's talk about a guy, Peter Raymond Porco, P-O-R-C-O.

That's how forensics files said it said like that. So it's Porco. He's born August 22nd, 1952. people around his job and everything around the community. He's known as Gentle Peter. Oh. Nice Gentle Peter. Nice guy, apparently.

That's originally, that's fun. Originally from Norwalk, Connecticut, his parents are Ralph and Jane. He went to the University of Albany and graduated in 1974. So he loves this capital region. He meets a woman in college, too, named Joan Belzano. she's about two years older than him. She was walking to the library and stopped to ask him for directions. And he's gentle.

Which is, yeah, so he guided her to the library very gently. Sure. And it turned into a marriage after that. So she earned her master's degree at the University of Albany where, while Peter was getting his undergraduate degree because she's two years older than him. He then went to Albany Law School in 1977 or graduated. from Albany Law School in 1977. Then Peter was admitted to the New York State Bar in 1978. So he's a lawyer.

Nice. His first legal job was as a public defender for Albany County. And then later he went to the private firm of Ainsworth and Sullivan. And later on, he'll work in the family court. And that's where we'll catch up with him in 2004. Now, Joan here, she was a children's speech pathologist. which is a very nice job. So they're both very educated people, you know, to be able to do that.

She worked for years at Jefferson Elementary School and at the Shalmont Central School District in Rotterdam. That's the lady that helps with like speech impediments and such. Yeah, I would imagine so, the kids that need to go to speech therapy. That's, I would assume she would be the one. They'd go to her probably. And those people are saints because I remember. Unbelievable. Cipation.

I have, well, I just remember kids that were, you know, third, fourth grades, had really bad speech impediments. And then by the time high school came around, they didn't have them anymore because they were going to see the speech therapist all the time. And it's, it's impressive that you can do that because that changes a person's life. I mean, if you can't speak, you're fucked in this world. You're totally fucked. I mean, can't do anything. So she's, her friends describe her as very devoutly Catholic. She goes to daily mass, daily.

Oh. Every day? Every day. It's a lot. That's a lot. Usually, that's not something, it's usually old people do that. Like, Sarah's grandfather does that, but he's like in his mid-80s, and that's where all, like, his social life is. So he just goes and hangs out and, you know, whatever the hell.

But every day. When you're younger, that's interesting. Also, always out the door at 6 a.m. Everyone said she's an amazing homemaker, an excellent cook, loves hosting gatherings and all that. So Joan is well-rounded, let's just say. She's a brilliant speech pathologist and does all this too. She was repeatedly described as perfect in a good way, sweet and beautiful, quote-unquote, is what a lawyer said later on. Now, they have two kids together.

They have Jonathan here. He was born, I want to say about 1980, but it's hard to pin on him. Jonathan's born in 1980 and he's kind of real straight-laced guy. He'll end up like an officer on a submarine in the Navy later on. He's real buttoned up cat. An officer. Served and then stuck around for the officer stuff. Well, I think he just went to college.

He went to officer school. He went to like college first and then went into the military. This is a family of, think of a speech pathologist and a lawyer. If you told them at 18, I'm going into the army. they go the fuck you are, you're going to the fucking army. You're asked you're going to the fucking army. How to do this the right way. Yeah, you're going to college first, then you go into the army as an officer.

This is crazy. So that's what an educated family would do that. People of our ilk would just be like, yeah, sure, I don't know, go do that, I guess. Whatever. Enjoy. Frontline. So, Frontline. They have a second son after that, July 9, 1983.

Christopher Stephen is born. He goes by Chris. Now, Peter, family is important to Peter. Seems to be the most important thing because he turns down, I don't even know how much more money he would have made doing this,

but multiple times his salary, obviously, rather than working for the family court system, he was, when he worked at the Ainsworth and Sullivan, he was offered a partnership there, which means share of the profits and everything. It's a big, and it's a big law firm in Albany, too. It's a very prestigious job. And he said no.

He turned it down because he said the hours would be too much for him and he wouldn't spend any time in his family, which is amazing. How many lawyers do that? You know, boy, lawyers are something else. Instead, he wanted to work as a law clerk rather than a partner at a big firm. That's crazy. He wanted to spend more time with his kids. and he also had loyalty to a judge named Anthony Cardona.

Cardona moved to family court, which, by the way, one lawyer called, about the bottom of the food chain in the judicial system. So there's not where the money is, family court here. Peter followed him there out of loyalty. So Cardona became the presiding judge of the appellate division, third department. Peter went with him and served as his clerk.

So he's just sticking with this guy. is how he's doing it. Now, I guess one lawyer that knew him said people who knew him called him gentle Peter because he was the kind of person who would do anything he could for anybody who needed help. That's who you want in family court, because I'll tell you what, that family court, I've had a little bit of experience. Yeah. It is, A, expensive and B, unforgiving and vicious and it is cold.

It is so cold. It's brutal. They don't give a fuck about you. They have rules that they abide by and numbers that, and there's a calculator for Christ's sake. They plug numbers in, give you a number and tell you to get fucked. That's all it is. It's brutal. And this, I mean, any guy who would, like I said, turn down a high-powered law firm's partnership job instead to do this, they have to have a certain moral, not moral, but a certain character to them where the money and fame aren't, you know, importance.

and clout aren't the thing he's chasing. Yeah. Other things he does, he's a Eucharistic minister at St. Francis de Salas in Loudonville. He helped build a students in court program at Bethlehem High School, and he also coached youth soccer. And didn't molest anybody. So, I mean, he's even hanging out with kids in a good way. He hosted card games at the house for friends and judges and other lawyers, and he loved to go camping. and canoeing.

So Peter's a... Fuck. He wants a life. He said, I want a well-rounded life. I don't want to be working 18 hours a day. That's stupid. 1991, they buy a beautiful new house. It's a very quiet street in Del Mar on Broccoli Drive.

Not broccoli, broccoli. It's a two-story, four-bedroom house, lots of room. Very nice, you know, safe area. They buy this house, and that's where they're going to raise their boys who are like, you know, 10 and 8 at the... this point. And yeah, and everybody said from around the neighborhood that Peter appeared to be a good and excellent father. Everybody liked him. And everybody that knows them too says they're not like, there's no dark side. Like they're not like, like we did the Kansas case with the pastor and his

wife and they're all, they have like five people. They're both fucking and there's all this big dark side. There's none of that here. Oh, like that strip mall room where he was talking people. That's another one. That's a different one that we had. Yeah. I'm talking a couple weeks ago, the pastor in Kansas there, Emporia. Oh, yeah.

That guy. And if you've watched the Netflix documentary, the pastor's wife, that whole thing. Like, a lot of times there's a, you know, a below the surface to people who act like they're wonderful in public. Yeah. Well, I'm sure we'll do a patron. on episode. But that is the, what the fuck? I get so many questions.

We have no time for that. Some other time. These people, though, they're saying they don't gamble, they don't do drugs. There's no affairs. Neither of them are having affairs. They're active in their church. And they're actually what they look like on the surface. They actually are this family, which is, it's rare, honestly.

Whenever someone shows. showing how good they are, I always think that the dark side of that's got to be so bad that they need. The better they try to make themselves be the darker I think they are. Right? Isn't that what you do? Fair. Yeah.

I mean, anybody that's like out there promoting how fucking happy they are, those are miserable people. How great they are. How you should live like me. Those people are fucking kids all the time or doing all sorts of horrible shit. Never works. Yeah. So a little bit about their sons here. Jonathan, the older son, he's the perfect son, the older one.

Yeah. Great grades. Captain of the swim team. Got a Navy scholarship to go to the Rochester Institute of Technology from 99 to 2003. And then he ends up in the Navy as a submarine officer because he knows all this technology shit that you need to know for that. then there's Chris That's a dope acronym That's riot

That's cool shit I'd wear that shirt Rochester Institute of Technology I wonder if they lean into that I don't know I doubt they do They would have to right I would hope they would But I would feel like

The Rochester Institute of Technology Wouldn't be like Make some kick ass shirt The least riot Yeah It's the least riotous Like fucking metal bro I just don't see it happen

I feel like they're like Well we need to put the letters so people don't form riot out of it because that would be terrible. Yeah. Our Oxford button downs are going to look like shit with the riot. They're going to look terrible. Yeah, no one's going to know what's going on. So Chris started working at the Bethlehem Veterinary Hospital at age 16.

They didn't want to hire him, by the way, because he's a teenager and they said whenever they hire teenagers, they quit in three days. Because this job is cleaning up after dogs, cats, geese, ducks, whatever shit. on the floor essentially is what you've got to clean up after. Yeah. And that's real bad because they're coming to the vet. Yeah, they're sick. Yeah. So they hired Chris because a sitting Albany County Supreme Court Justice named Joseph

Canisaro personally called and asked them to do him a favor on behalf of his friend Peter Porco and hire his kid. So the lady who runs the Bethlehem Veterinary Hospital said Supreme Court judges can be very persuasive. So he hired him. I've never taken a call from one. I assume they're real good. I assume they get what they want at the end of the call, probably. Chris, they said, by the way, among the non-vets there, the people that just worked there, said he was, quote, just the greatest guy around. He loved the animals, took great care of them and stayed for years, they all said. Oh, wow.

Great kid with the animals. Loved him. He ended up graduating from Bethlehem High School in 2002, where he was. was also a pretty good student and like his brother, captain of the swim team. So he followed in his brother's footsteps there. He enrolled at the University of Rochester, where he studied economics and also some biomedical engineering coursework he did as well. He joined Sigma Phi, Sigma Pi or Phi, however they say it, Epsilon. I don't know how these fucking morons who by friends spell their bullshit or say their bullshit.

Fuck, everyone. So let me get this straight. It's thousands of dollars to be friends with your people. For what now? And I stick shit up my ass. Great. Let's do it.

That sounds wonderful. He swam on the varsity team and did ROTC for a minute, but his grades were slipping, so he kind of kicked out of that. His own, later on, it said about him that when he gets to college, though, he gets less serious

in college, as a lot of people do. Let's be honest. He became a frat-do? Really? Is that right? Somebody said later, quote, somebody said, let's party, and he said it felt like a pretty good idea, and that's his college life. Yeah, it turns into Van Wilder when he gets there.

He's a nut. So he has a completely false persona at the University of Rochester, by the way. What do you mean? Well, I think it's a lot of kids, I think, probably do this. If you grow up around your same area, your whole life, everybody knows you, they know who you are. You can't really reinvent yourself. You know what I mean?

No. They'll be like, yeah, you're full of shit. What are you talking about? Whereas when you go hours away to college where nobody knows you, you can be anything you want at that point. That's what a lot of kids do. They reinvent themselves. Yeah, but the only reason to do that is if you're not proud of nor like what you are. No.

Just want people to think you're hot shit and you want girls to fuck you, I think, is part of it, too. I mean, captain of the swim team and frat guy and came from, my parents are great. But what he isn't, though, is rich. And he wants to, that's the thing. Yeah, it's not, it's a matter of I'm a rich kid is what he tells everybody. He tells everybody's waiting for a big inheritance. That kind of, that's what I'm saying, that kind of thing. You know, you're totally right about the other side of it.

Yeah, this is all the other shit is everything I wanted. I can give a fuck about money. This is more like for status of, yeah, it's one of those things. He told his fraternity brothers that his grandmother was a wealthy landowner who owned much of the land in Fairfield County, Connecticut. And he talked about million dollar deals and his family had oceanfront homes that they went to. None of this is true, obviously. They don't have oceanfront homes. They're not wealthy, his family.

His parents do fine. They do fine. They're comfortable. They're not wanting for anything. but they're certainly not wealthy people, you know what I mean, at all. There's no ocean front homes or any horseshit like that. Their house is probably paid off. That's what they have, and that makes them feel good.

And that would make anybody feel good. And his parents are paying for his college. Rochester is a private university. So they are paying $32,000 a year in 2004 money for him to go to school. Okay. And they're not wealthy. He's a law clerk and she's a school speech pathologist. They don't make boatloads of money here.

So Chris has to figure out how to keep his ruse alive with all the people at college of how rich he is while not actually being rich, which is a difficult thing to pull off. It's tough. It's a tough one. So he would spend money he didn't have. He had a credit card that he got at college because they hit these kids up with predatory credit cards with higher limits than they could ever afford to pay back and all that kind of shit. And then if he didn't have the money, he'd steal shit to get the money. Whatever it is, he's got to keep up this persona. Otherwise, what the fuck is the point of this?

Everyone's going to know he's full of shit. He's building a life that's living for today because tomorrow I'm going to have to go scratch and claw again, which is crazy. Which is Casey Anthony's hallway. Yeah. It's a lie that you're an end to that hallway where you're going to run out of office doors that could possibly be yours and you're going to hit a wall. So Thanksgiving of 2002, there is a burglary at the house on Broccoli Drive, the home, the family home. It's unsolved. The detectives investigating it said it just didn't quite add up the whole thing.

Chris was home from school and the house was burglarized because this was over Thanksgiving. A window screen was cut to look like a break in and two laptops had been taken, including Jones' work laptop from the school district. which I'm sure she then had to repay. You know what I mean? So a detective Bowdish was here. He's Bowdish, Bowdish, by the way. You bet your ass, as Master P would say. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Detective Bowdish, he comes in. I'm only giving you his name because he's going to, and I said it like that so you'd remember it because he's going to come back later. So he said this all just didn't add up. So after that, Peter and Joan install an alarm system because they had a break-in. July 2003, there's another break-in. And it's a cut screen again, window open, same exact deal. On summertime?

July 2003, yeah. And this time, Peter's Dell-Inspirion 2650 laptop disappeared. There's really a laptop guy out there. There is. Somebody's taking them. Funny thing is, that same day, we'll find out much later, a Dell and Spirion 2650 went up for sale on Chris's eBay account. Weird. Yeah.

And also, things started to disappear from the Bethlehem Veterinary Hospital as well around this time. A digital camera, a camcorder, pocket computers. I don't know what the fuck a pocket computer is, but like a... Yeah, it's like a tablet, but smaller. 2003, we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And a cell phone belonging to the co-owner of the clinic were stolen after the clinic's alarm was disarmed.

And then weeks later, similar items appeared where? Chris's eBay. Yeah. So. A bunch of electronics. Yeah. Chris has some problems with money that he needs here. He also has some problems at school.

He was what's called involuntarily separated from Rochester University for bad grades. Suspended. Kicked out, essentially, yeah. Involuntarily separated is a very nice way to say, tossed out the fucking door on your ass. He didn't want to, but he definitely laughed. He definitely did. Yeah, I guess it was for terrible grades. And they told him this involuntary separation is take a year off, get your shit,

together, go to a community college for a semester, get your grades to normal, and then come back, and you're fine. He didn't want to leave, obviously. He's in a fraternity as a social life. He's got a girlfriend up there. He's banging chicks. He's doing all his shit. He didn't want to move back to his house with his parents looking disappointed at him while

his brother's fucking commanding a submarine or whatever the hell he's doing. He feels like a douchebag. Yeah. You're getting university girls. You don't want community college girls now. God, no, that is a big step down. Huge step down from sorority girls? Yeah.

Entirely different. So for a guy like this, absolutely. So I think the community college girls are fine. But, you know, this guy, he would think it's different. So. Yeah, I guess we got to defend them too. Well, who the fuck? If we're going to attack him, right?

My wife went to community college, damn it. I didn't even. I've never dated a girl that went to any college. That's a lot. first of all. Oh, no, no, yeah. That last one definitely went to college. Very much a lot of college.

Yeah. Other than that, yeah, never, me neither. It's the only one. Yeah, they find us childish and dumb. Crude. Crude, yes. Now, anyway, he goes and enrolls. Well, first he tells his parents that it's a mistake.

He said, a professor lost his final exam. They just lost it and then said, well, fuck it. You can't, we're kicking you out because your final exams lost. So. But there should be proof that I made that. You'd imagine. So, yeah. So that's, that's what's bullshit.

Then he said, okay, I talked to the college, mom and dad. And they told me they know it was their bad now. Okay. Totally they're bad. So to make up for the error because they feel so bad of what they've done to me here, they're giving me my next. semester for free, which would never happen, ever. College is giving you nothing for free, first of all.

They've seen the error of their way. Yeah. And they gave me a gift card. That's what's going on here. Next semester, free. Yeah, they gave me a punch card for... 15 credits on the house. Yeah, they punched it all out for me, so I get one free semester.

So they said... Okay, they believed him. Really? Why wouldn't you? I don't know. It seems logical. And for them, they went, well, we save 16 grand. Great.

Cool. Whatever. So he goes to Hudson Valley Community College, which is up in Albany there. Yeah. That's a Hudson Valley is long. It goes forever. It sure is. It goes from just outside the city until Montreal, essentially.

It's just huge. So at this point, she goes there. and she's having problems. He's having problems there, obviously. He's having bad grades there. And apparently there's an email from Joan to Chris saying, failing grades, you did it again. This is the subject line of an email.

She found out. And that's how she starts this shit. Failing grades, dash, you did it again, exclamation point. Okay, that's the subject. You just left. And we can't believe. Sorry. What'd you say?

It's almost a celebration in the in the in the, it almost makes you want to read you. You fuck up. You did it again. You just left and we can't believe our eyes as I look at your interim grade report. You know what they say. Three strikes and you're out. Explain yourself. Okay.

Yeah. Chris doesn't reply till days later. Ah. And then says obviously they are incorrect. My lowest grade that I got on anything was a B on a physics test. Don't jump to conclusions. I'm fine. So these are just incomplete grades that you saw.

They didn't have all my work in and it's all fine. So anyway, yeah, when he enrolled in Hudson Valley Community College, he just didn't go to class and then failed everything. He just enrolled but didn't go. His grades came in the mail. A community college. Community college. His grades came in the mail and he said the registrar made a mistake. no one can do paperwork

at these colleges apparently just with him so then what he did is he took his failing transcript that they gave him his failing grades and physically forged the grades

into A's and B's. He physically went in and did like a whole workup on it to falsified this document and then mailed it to Rochester with a readmission application and they went good for you,

you got your grades up Come on in. It worked. Yep. They wanted an official transcript, they said, and there's a bunch of back-and-forth emails, and eventually they just let it drop and let him in. So he just wore him out. War him down.

I can't imagine working that hard to be able to spend 16 grand of your parents' money. To go, that's how bad he wants to live in a frat house. Fuck off. Fuck off and dick off. And we to hear all the stuff he's doing also. He told his parents he only needed a co-signed $2,000 loan for school, yet he'll later take out a fraudulent loan for $31,000. And we'll talk about that, which is obviously Christopher. Christopher is, he's got some spleen and to do.

I mean, this is really terrible financial behavior, obviously. But the criminality of it at such a young age doing financial crimes like that already. Under the surface. And getting away with it. He's really good at it, which is scary. Well, he's good at it with his parents who he's learned how to get over on. Yeah. And some fucking college registrar person who's probably overwhelmed with 10 million other applications and just said, I don't give a fuck anymore.

And all it is is admissions. Yeah. It's not like, yeah. And in his mind, though, he's thinking. I'm so slick. I am. I'm so good at this. Yeah, I'm just Teflon.

So the loan is the thing. Chris needed $32,000 for tuition because he told his parents he's getting a free semester. Oh, fuck, that's right. And they're not getting a free semester. So this is Casey Anthony's hallway. You have now hit the end of the hallway where you don't have the money to pay for the thing that you said was free. So. Yeah, you've done all of this work to snow your parents.

But then there has to be a huge amount of money. That's the problem. They believe you and that's all great. But now you've got to come up with the cash. So he said, I just need $2,000 to make ends meet. I'd like to take out a loan, my own loan for this. Can I use your social security number, a letter from your job and your W-2? So you co-signed for me for this.

They won't give me a $2,000 loan because I'm a college kid and I already have debts. Peter said, I'll just give you $2,000. and you can pay me back. Why involve a bank in this? Well, fuck. He foiled my plan. Chris said, no, no, I want to do this on my own. Rather than that $2,000 will do nothing for me.

He said, I want to do this on my own. I want the repayment terms. Give me the information and I'll handle it. And Peter said, okay, the kid wants to get his own credit going and he wants to do this on his own, so I'll let him do it on his own. Problem was he electronically signed as his father as a co-signer on a $31,000 loan from Citibank, which is much more than 2000. So this is literally, he was saying, it's only 2000, don't worry about it. It's going to be fine.

Meanwhile, at the same time, he was emailing the University of Rochester saying, don't worry, my tuition's coming. I have a big loan on my way to cover the whole year. so I'll be able to pay you guys soon. Okay. He's insane, this kid. This is crazy. So he's going to take out a loan in his father's name, not even a student loan. No, no, no, just a regular old bank loan.

Then he, of course, needs to have a really, really impressive vehicle because you can't just show up with an 87 cavalier and say you're a rich kid with oceanfront properties. You've got to have something that shows your status as a cool guy. His is a absolutely fucking eye-popping, I mean, searingly bright yellow Jeep ranger with big tires on it. You could not get a more conspicuous vehicle than this fucking car. A bright yellow Jeep is so dumb. The brightest yellow Jeep, too, that you could, it's not like a banana. It's like some crazy.

Crazy. School boss. It doesn't exist in nature, this yellow. It's wild. So on it, he has a W sticker, which is and a Bush Cheneo4 decal. So he's got big oversized tires on it, a big winch on it and all that shit. It's the packed in their Jeep, the loaded Jeep. They park out front, like with one tire up on a rock.

and they're like, some idiot come in and spend way too much money for this. He's the idiot. The parts department threw up on this jeez. Whatever they had. Yeah. There's like a giant antenna coming off of it and like an ice cream cone from an ice cream truck.

Just anything they had laying around. They stuck on there. And all the ducks. All of it. All the ducks. So he purchases this with a loan he obtained by forging his father's signature. He realized that's a pretty easy thing to do. I can get my dad to co-sign on this.

So he does. It was so recognizable, too, that everybody knew when they saw it. It's the only bright yellow Jeep with huge tires and a winch on it in the area. So bright-lifted Jeep. There it is. Yeah, everybody. So anyway, so now he's really got a lot of problems here. Mail is arriving now, credit card notices, car loan notices, delinquency notices,

all in Chris's name landing at his parents' house. Casey Anthony's hallway is getting fucking tighter and tighter. It's starting to get narrower. Yeah. Oh, this is bad. So then he has other things here.

We know he lied to his friends and acquaintances about his inheritance. That doesn't exist, obviously. At one point now, his parents froze their eBay accounts after Christopher never said, items sold on eBay. Apparently, he put stuff on his parents' accounts, sold it, got the money, and never sent

the stuff out. So then they were getting dinged by eBay of where's that shit. So they closed down their account. During the investigation, it was revealed that Christopher posed as his brother, Jonathan, sending emails to people explaining that his brother died and he was unable to send the purchased items. I'm sorry. My brother's dead.

He put it up, and I'm just his brother taking over his stuff. He's dead. I don't know where the stuff is, so I can't send it to you. That's how he was trying to get out of it. Okay, but send back the money then. I don't know where he put that either. I don't know. He's dead, so I mean, I guess file.

The money might be with the camcourt or something. I have no idea. Get a lawyer. I don't know what to tell you. He's dead, so that's that, yeah. He, like we know, he also stole a bunch of shit from the veterinary hospital. hospital and all that kind of thing. He's also in a lot of debt from internet gambling as well.

He figured that out early. He's an early adopter of internet gambling as well. He's a douchebag of the highest order. A frat boy gambling, lifted yellow Jeep driving tool bag. Like, absolute dish. And everybody else is paying the consequences for it. He's got, he's answering to nothing. Nothing, no.

then he got to the end of the hallway and his parents find out about everything because they have to at some point his dad takes no time at all no his dad's the co-signer so when he doesn't pay back they go to his dad

you know and his dad's like hey my name's on this envelope what the fuck here so they figure it out and they threatened to go to the cops on him they say we're gonna we're gonna have you fucking arrested for this this is crazy in one email

because this is all very fraudulent behavior. I mean, this is very illegal. In one email, his dad here writes, did you forge my signature as a co-signer? What the hell are you doing? You should have called me to discuss it. I'm calling Citibank this morning to find out what you have done, and I'm going to tell them I'm not going to be on it as a co-signer.

So he's in trouble now. He's calling Citibank. Citibank had notified Peter that Christopher had obtained a line of credit for over $16,000 to purchase the Jeep Wrangler. Christopher then used his name to secure the auto loan, like we said. The parents kept trying to contact Christopher, but he wouldn't talk to them. He wouldn't answer the phone for them. He's got a cell phone.

They call. He won't answer. He just bignores them. Another email, his father wrote, I want you to know that if you abuse my credit again, I will be forced to file forgery affidavits in order to disclaim liability that applies to the Citibank College loan if you attempt to reactivate or use my credit to obtain another loan. So if you fucking do this again, I am going to the cops, period. Then he said, we may be disappointed with you, but your mother and I still love you and care about your future.

That's how good this guy is. That's how nice these people are. That's unbelievable. That's how nice. Not, and you little motherfucker, I'm going to slam your dick in a car door if you do this again. They instead say, we still love you. Don't, they won't cast them out. They're still, they're nice people.

Nice people. Unfortunately, though. How much they love this kid? It's crazy. I don't understand it. Joan wrote two. Joan said, question Chris's mental health and said, please be honest. Is there something wrong?

You're not telling us. Your father's about to have a nervous breakdown. Why are you lying to us? We're your parents. We love you. They're trying that whole thing. So this is the summer of 2004. This is all coming to a head.

And the fall of 2004, that the eBay accounts thing, that all happened in October 2004, early October. By November 15th, 2004, it's the morning. And we are at the Albany Court Complex. And old gentle Peter doesn't show up for work that day. No? And apparently he is the most responsible employee that's ever existed. Punctual. Yeah.

They said him not showing up is, quote, as unusual as the sun not rising in the morning. It's so unusual that he doesn't show up. The judge sent a court officer to his house to look for him. Wow. The judge just dispatched a court officer, which most people's, if you don't show up for work, they don't have the ability to just dispatch an officer to your house. You know what I mean? Wow.

These judges, really, they can get people jobs. They show up for my clerk. Yeah, okay, and he goes. That's that. Yeah. So this is about, they give him until about noon. He doesn't show up and they go, okay, go over there. So court officer Michael, Michael Hart, he shows up and finds the front door ajar, which is never a great sign.

Door open. Door open. Yeah, not open, but, you know, open six inches. That's bad. And that's open. Yeah. That's open. Yeah.

A key is in the lock, too. So someone opened it with a key, just a single key in there. It's one of the spare keys they have from around. They have a couple of different spares. Not on a key chain, not on a bunch of keys, just a single. No, single key sitting in there. Nobody's car keys dangling from it or any shit like that. Now, he sees that, looks in the door, and immediately sees blood everywhere.

Again. Oh, no. Bad sign. He looks up at the stairs. and sees Peter's crumpled form at the foot of the stairs with blood everywhere. Oh, fuck. Yeah.

So he backs right out and sees the house is covered in blood. He backs right out and, you know, and calls somebody. They said, at the base of those stairs is the dead body of Peter Porco. Peter is laying on the landing to the stairway going upstairs. His face is pointed up the stairs. His legs are dangling off the stairs. end of the landing. He's covered in blood, saturated in blood, obviously suffered tremendous catastrophic injuries. That's the layout of what we've seen here. So he backs out and calls the judge.

He doesn't even call 911. He calls the judge. Hey, I'm here. He looks dead. The judge says, get the hell out. I'm sending the police over there. Okay. The judge just dispatches people places. You go. I'm also sending a bailiff to get me some subway. I'm a little peckish. So we can do that. You've arrived at family court. This is Judge So-and-so. This is Judge Cardona.

How can I direct your call? Anybody I can dispatch out there. I got a guy that just helps you do barbecue better. Yeah. I got a guy that just help you flip your burgers, tell you when to do it. He knows everything. All right.

He'll tell you when it's medium rare. He'll tell you when it's medium rare. He's good. So. I'll tell you when it feels like the center of your palm. You got to go. Yeah, you got to feel it. So the first detective arrives.

And it's detective. It's the same guy from the robbery. It's Bowdoch. Oh. Same guy. Christopher Bowdish, the detective, from the robbery. So they find that Peter is dead. A pathologist finds that he suffered 16 distinct serious trauma.

sites. 16. Oh. These included a blow that penetrated his skull and another that removed part of his jaw. Oh, fuck. This is with an axe. This was done. Oh, my.

So he has a big axe thing in a skull that he came in and part of his jaws off and he's dead. Now, that sounds crazy, right? It's a crazy way to die. That's not the crazy part of what happened here. This is the thing that we've never had happened before. Wow. Okay. They reconstruct the scene.

Okay. And they initially read it as a struggle. There's blood on the floors, blood swiped on the walls, blood in the downstairs bathroom, blood all over the kitchen, blood on the table, the countertop, the appliances. It looks like someone exploded in every room. They're like how it's smeared. It's like a terrifier movie. Yeah. Yeah.

Just smeared blood everywhere. And it looked like two people must have been fighting for their lives here. This was a death struggle and someone lost. But then they figured it out and they said there was no struggle, actually, from what they figured out. The blood, they figured that out because all of the blood is all Peters. It's all Peters. This is some crazy neurological thing. He went on autopilot and just started doing chores around the house.

while he had a shot he had 16 axe wounds including his skull broken in half by a fucking axe and half his jaw missing he just went about his normal morning routine yeah not so so somebody attacked him yeah and he wasn't dead he got up and just started doing things and left his blood all over the house just that's why it's on appliances he was doing normal things he was like making coffee and shit he became like a domer Yes, like a zombie. Zombie? Domer never tried an axe, apparently. I just, yeah, I guess you just cleave a guy. That was the formula. And he's fine. Wow.

If you do it just right, apparently, he'll wander around and do shit for a long time. Unbelievable. It's the craziest thing. The coroner's physician said that there was no injuries that are instantly or rapidly fatal. The survival here could have been many hours. but he didn't know what he was doing. Otherwise, he would have called for help. Yeah, because his brain was, yeah.

Exactly. This is literally, they called it autopilot, is what the, I guess, neurologists are calling. It's a phenomenon that can happen. If your brain is fucked up just enough, it'll do the things it knows how to do and programmed to do. And, you know, it won't vary from that, obviously. But isn't that crazy? It's like Henry Hill and fucking Hannibal, when he's got his head cut open and he's serving him his own brain and yeah uh how do you do what what is it with us that we can do that he's got

to be in pain i that's the thing they don't even think he think he was just completely all the receptors are gone was going out didn't know it was going on remember in deadwood in the first episode trixie shoots that guy through the temple yeah and he pulls the bullet out and uh the doctor is like he's still like talking he's still doing shit after he just stuck a fucking entire thing through his rod through his head, temple to temple. Yeah. And he was like, oh my God, can I take him and study him? This is so weird.

I don't get it. And it was some sort of like autopilot he was doing where he kept saying the same thing over and over again. And that's what it's got to be something similar. We're not neurologist, so I can't give you the exact medical phenomena here. But poor Peter. It's fucking crazy. He was doing like his normal morning shit. He used towels and tissues and toilet paper to try to stop the bleeding from his head.

So he at one point went in and went, oh, I'm all fucked up. Better fix that. And then went about his business. He gripped the banister. He actually put shit on his head to try to make it stop bleeding. Then he went and put on a long sleeve shirt. He went and put on a work shirt. He's getting ready for work.

Oh, my God. He then gripped the banister and made his way downstairs. Then stood at the mirror dabbing at wounds that he didn't understand because he was just like, well, I guess I'm fucked up. Looked in the mirror. I really caught myself shaving today. He opened the refrigerator and then started emptying the dishwasher. He's doing chores. He's doing chores.

The human brain is the most wild fucking thing ever. It gets crazier. He sat down at the kitchen table and packed a lunch. The man was lunch was fucking packed. He packed it. Blood all over it. He packed a fucking lunch. And then the most fucked up part of all, he wrote out a check to pay Christopher's parking ticket.

Christopher had a parking ticket that came to the house. He wrote out a check, blood all over it and everything to pay his parking ticket. He actually could write, not just wander. It's unbelievable. He was writing. It's unbelievable. But didn't realize what was going on. Then he apparently, he kept trying to leave the house and couldn't get out.

They found it like all the doors. He couldn't figure out how to get a door open, I guess. Losing blood. And he was probably dying. Losing blood and everything else. Yeah, he couldn't get out. He sat in a chair. leaning over trying to pull open a sliding screen door,

but he didn't realize there was a broom handle in the tracks, one of those so it doesn't open. So he couldn't get it open. They just saw like his hand, he kept pulling at it, but couldn't get it open. He didn't realize. Like he was half asleep.

Yep, like he was sleepwalking. Yep. Then he went into the garage where the cars are, I guess to leave. He put a shirt on him, packed a lunch. Imagine he gets out on the open road. Imagine you look over And you're like, hey, nice

fucking move, dip shit. And you look over and you see a guy with a huge axe wound in his forehead. Half his jaw missing. Half of a jaw missing. Oh my God. So there's blood dripping everywhere. And then he goes back inside.

So he wandered out there. It was like, I don't know how to drive, I guess, or didn't know where the keys were or whatever the thing is. He didn't leave. He even at one point, opened the front door and stuck his head out. So he got out that. way because there's some blood on the concrete right outside the door.

So he must have opened the door, looked around. And there's also, they also think that possibly the hidden key was from him. They think maybe he went outside, accidentally locked himself outside, then used the spare key to get in. So they're, they're thinking that's possible. The craziest day ever. This went on for, we don't know how long. This could have been two hours.

We have no idea. And then finally he collapsed at the base of the stairs trying to get back up the stairs. That's what was going on. That's why his feet are hanging off the bottom because he was trying to get up the stairs now. And his face is turned up towards the top. Yeah. That's what they find in this fucking place. What a fucking horrible explanation.

It's the worst thing I've ever heard. I'd rather it be a struggle for his life. Oh, at least, yeah, he's got a chance. This is crazy. He's just walking around on this crazy autopilot with nobody. able to guide him or push him in the right direction. This is horrible.

So if he would have gotten, if he, instead of doing all that, if he would have just called 911, he probably would have lived. That's the fucked up part. They probably would have lived. So then they look around the rest of the house, obviously.

They don't figure out the whole, he stumbled around and did autopilot. They don't figure that out till later, but had to put that in here. They start looking around the rest of the house, okay? Room by room, They go through. Christopher's bedroom, neat and untouched. The guest room all made up. Jonathan's room, undisturbed. Just how he left it. No open drawers. No ransacking. Valuables all over the place in plain sight. Jones's purse is on the dining room hutch with money, credit cards, checkbook, car keys, sitting right in it. Everything right in it. Her purse is there. So where's Joan? We haven't found her yet. Nothing of value.

had been taken from the house basically. The last room in the house they go in, and they did this very slowly, room by room because they don't know what's going on. The last room they look at is at the end of the hall, it's the master bedroom. They open up the bedroom door and they find fucking blood everywhere in there.

Blood everywhere. They see Joan on the bed, covered in blood, massive head trauma. Her left eye is gone. out of her head. There's blood all over, saturated. They said the mattress is saturated in blood. There's blood on the walls behind it.

At the foot of the bed, there is a giant, huge, large, bloody axe with the handle pointing up at the foot of the bed. Just like resting against the bed? It's on top of the bed. I don't know if it's in the bed or what. Across the bed is Joan. So they walk in and they're like,

oh, Jesus Christ. Skull cracked open. They could see brain. Yeah. They can see brain. She has no eye. It's bad. She looks like skull completely fucked.

So the EMTs are told to wait outside the house because they said it's a crime scene and it's just two dead bodies. So we don't need you in here basically. You know, you'll only fuck things up. Then the officers that were looking around the room noticed Joan move. They saw her move. Oh, no. So they went, holy shit. EMTs, back in here, back in here.

So they run in here. Apparently, she lost part of her skull. Her jaw is shattered. She suffered brain damage. She's got throat injuries, all this type of shit. Paramedics run up there. They all said it's the most amazing thing they've ever seen in their career that this lady's alive. They all just thought she was dead.

No fucking way. They'd been processing the crime scene for a fucking hour and a half with her just laying there. They're alive, apparently. They thought she was dead. She's alive. That's a dead lady. No, she's alive. She's alive.

Moving. So they end up the detective, the one from the burglary, same guy, bowdish. He leans over Joan and starts asking her a series of yes or no questions. And she's shaking and nodding. Okay? How she can even do that? I have no fucking idea. She asked all this shit.

Asked everything, blah, blah, blah. according to the detective and two paramedics that were there, when asked, did Jonathan do this? She shook her head. They said, did Christopher do this? And she nodded forcefully, yes.

Wow. That's what happened. So the detective had his camera. When they realized she was breathing, he was taking pictures of the crime scene. He was taking pictures of her body of the room. And they realized she moved and went, holy shit,

she just moved. it didn't make sense too. And he also realized that he knew her because he knew this family from the burglaries that happened a couple of years back. So he was like, what the fuck? And he said, I don't get it.

He said he saw the key in the lock, undisturbed purse. And he just said, this is a detective, said, I could see there was no break in. There was no forced entry. It wasn't tossed. And tossed the house

to try to find shit. He said, To him, he's standing in the room going, this is an inside job for sure. That's why he said, is it Jonathan? Is it Chris? Okay. Now, where are the boys? Where could they be?

Jonathan's on a boat, right? Jonathan was at Naval School in Charleston, South Carolina. So, absolutely not. Now, nowhere near this place. Couldn't be him. Now, Chris says the first he heard of any of this was a phone call from a newspaper, in turn, asking for his reaction to his parents being killed. which is not how you want to find out.

Your parents are dead. That's a fucked, yeah. That's a fucked phone call. And they said both parents were dead at that point because that's what they had heard. Oh. Because when the police initially went in, they said two people are dead here. That went out through the scanners, which probably were picked up by the newspaper, who said two people are dead and didn't realize that one's alive.

Chris said, when he heard of it, he said, quote, I kind of dropped the phone and I was completely shocked. But what he doesn't know is that the police. have already put a bolow out for Chris because he was identified by his mom as the one who did this. So they're looking for him. They put out a thing across the northeast saying he's armed and dangerous. And he's just sitting in his hotel room or his dorm room like a jerk off at this point. He's back at Rochester by now doing that.

So another reason, in addition to Joan nodding her head forcefully, they talked to a neighbor and they said at 4 a.m. that morning of the murders, this neighbor, Marshall Goki, he said he was leaving for work. He's a construction worker, so he leaves really fucking early. He says that he passes the house and he saw the yellow Jeep in the driveway. A big bright douche mobile right in the driveway. Like a big sore thumb. He said, I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

That was Chris Porco's Jeep, period. Yeah. That's it. Like I said, it's the only fucking one. So it's his. So inside the house. when they're searching, they end up finding the veterinarian place. The lady who owns that, her cell phone was in a small safe that belonged to Chris in his room.

He still had her phone. He kept it. He kept it. If you can't sell it, throw it out. But don't keep it. That's stupid. He sold it. He just didn't send it.

He just didn't send it. Yeah. True. So that evening, I guess his uncle drove him from Rochester back to Albany. went and picked him up to take him to his mother in the hospital. She is now in the hospital in a coma having surgery and all this other shit.

She's in bad shape. Chris said, I saw her. She was swollen and covered in tubes. And my reaction was, I burst into tears. I fell on the floor right there. Problem is, a former youth minister named Joe Catalano, who was also right there.

Got him the job. No, this guy tried to help. help Chris. He was there to try to make sure Chris was okay. Described, quote, being struck by Christopher's odd behavior. They asked if he sensed that Chris had any grief at all in seeing his mom. He said, none whatsoever. It was weird. So Chris tells people he collapsed to the floor crying and this guy said, I watched him just be like, nah, whatever. Like you told him the Broncos lost today and he was like, nah, didn't expect him to fucking beat New England and whatever. He's got to be panicked, right? You would think, well, later that night, the police want to talk to Chris.

That night, they want to have a chit chat with him. So they bring him in. It is a six-hour interview, by the way. And I had the entire transcript to a six-hour fucking interview. Do you know how many pages six hours of three people talking in a room is? It's hundreds. And I could have read fucking war in peace last night instead of this goddamn interview. So this is crazy.

Now, this interview is also the subject of a psychological paper, a psychology paper. That's a very commonly looked into study. And I'll give you the name of it and everything later where they looked at this. Because they look at this as an example of terrible police interrogation of the way not to get a guy to confess. and basically the way to get nothing out of somebody because you don't understand what they are and what angle to come at them with. Because you don't have a homicide investigating group?

Yeah, that too. And some of it, though, is also just, I think, just instinctual. Some guys are some people, not some guys, some people are good at interrogation. They're good at figuring out exactly what this person is. They fucked it all up. We'll find out here.

Now, this psychology, paper, they posit that Chris is a psychopath, like a genuine psychopath with no fucking remorse and no anything. So they're saying, if you have a psychopath in front of you, you have to go at him a certain way. You can't go at him the normal way. It doesn't work. And so basically this paper is this is the way they went at him and this is why it's wrong.

This is how they could have possibly gotten more out of them if they understood psychology. Interesting. Now, Chris says I wanted to be as helpful as I could, the quicker the better. When they asked him directly if he did it, he said, I can't say enough. Absolutely no. That's way too many words before no, first of all. That's one, two, three, four, five words before no came out. And none of them really go together.

Nope. Why say that? Your answer should have been no. And I can't say enough no, but no. But no is first. That's, comes out. He said, I would never do anything like that to anyone, let alone my parents. who I love dearly.

Dear, dear people they are. Okay. Six-hour interrogation. I'm going to, like I said, try to pick, I tried to go through and really get the parts that were interesting, a little bit funny, or that mattered. So, now, in this study here, this paper, they list psychopathic personality traits as at the top of this interrogation to talk about. Yeah. They said interpersonal, superficial charm. grandiosity, lying, conning, and manipulative.

I think we all could have put that together probably. Effective, under effective, they have remorselessness, shallow affect, callousness, failure to accept responsibility. Well, this fit Chris so far pretty well. Not bad. Lifestyle, impulsivity, stimulation seeking, irresponsible, parasitic lifestyle, lack of realistic goals. basically every open mic comedian we've ever met is a psychopath. Yeah, yeah. That's what that describes all of those things so far describe 87% of every comedian I've ever fucking met.

That last bit is so important. So important. Under antisocial, they have poor behavioral controls, delinquency, criminal versatility, meaning they can do not just one crime they're into. They can shift. and early behavioral problems. Now, I am going to read from this. They say the questions and answers outline here

do not reflect the order in which they were asked, which I tried to put him in more of an order of which they were asked because I went into the fucking goddamn whole thing and figured out where those portions were. Yeah, this wasn't easy. They illustrate how the investigator's strategy of attempting to overwhelm him emotionally was not as efficient as it could have been.

You can't overwhelm a psychopath emotionally, because they don't feel it. No. They don't feel it. Yeah, they don't have it. They don't have it. So that works with people that feel guilt. But if you have someone in front of you that doesn't feel guilt, that means nothing to them.

They just go, I don't know what you're talking about. But every time you ask them a question because they don't have that human emotion, that behavior, when you ask them that question, it should be oh so obvious that there is a problem right now. Absolutely. But you can't get them to confess that way is the problem. Great point. The only way you can get a psychopath to confess what they're saying basically is it has to be more like a practical thing that they understand them getting something out of too. Well, you also got a corner of them until they realize that there's no way to explain my way out of this, a la Chris Watts.

And you know what I mean? When they see that there's no way out of the explanation, then they'll confess. But that's the only way. That's the only way. And plus they have to feel like they're getting something out of it too. And that, yeah. That's the other thing. It's one of the two.

They have to feel like they have a chip to play. This is a game to them. So if they have a chip to play to get something out of it, they know they're fucked. Yeah. And they'll use that to get something. And they like control. Otherwise, it has to be, yeah. Otherwise, it has to be.

We know that you did it. Just fucking say it. Yeah. A lot of times they're almost amused by the back and forth because it's a game to them. I think it's funny. The worst, the coldest ones too. Yeah. So they asked this detective, the boutish guy, asks, what sort of securities would your parents have in the house?

And Chris said alarm system, if they remember to turn it on, usually it's on. And the detective said, did they have like a medic alert or a panic alarm or anything on it? And Chris said, yeah, like if someone was putting a gun to your head and your, that's how it gets on the alarm. There's like four buttons you can push that tells a security. company that. It's like a panic button, basically. The detective said some of them have remotes that you can hang or, you know, having you or next to your bed. And Chris said they have a remote. And the detective said there was. And Chris says, I don't know where they keep it. They used to keep it in their room.

He said, I don't know if they've ever used it. They got it because in the downstairs foyer, there's a motion sensor. And they got it so they could disarm it in the morning. but they never, we never use the motion sensor anymore. My dog used to set it off all the time. Yeah, if you have dogs, you can't have motion sensor shit. So the detective says, yeah, sure, sure, yeah, yeah. Which is a great. Yeah, sure, yeah, sure, yeah.

Chris says, so it's only set on stay, which means, I guess, all the windows and doors are secured, but the motion sensor is not on. So the detective says, sure. and Chris says, in theory, people can't come in. Okay. So the detective says, well, okay, so they probably didn't set it at night. Is that what you're saying?

And Chris said, no, they normally do. A lot of times my dog would go out. He's pretty old. He's 11 or 12. And a lot of times he'll come up and whine at one of us at like two or three in the morning. And we'll let him out. And a lot of times they'll forget and they don't turn it back on. So that's what he's saying.

How the alarm may have been off in the middle of the night. night. Chris says, I don't know if it was armed at the time. I don't know. But then the detective said, does your dad get up during the night? And Chris says, yeah, typical guy. I don't know what that means. He said, well, I mean, is he an early riser or is he? And Chris said, they both get up around 5.30, I think. And the detective says, really? And Chris says, I think my mom has always gotten up around. she goes to mass every morning at 7.30. It's before work. She goes to mass. Another detective interrupts and says not to interrupt.

That was my boss that just came in and he just wanted to make sure that you're all right with talking to us. You know, we're not in here. Did you hire, you didn't hire an attorney or anything today, did you? And Chris said, no, the guy I generally talk to, he's an attorney like he's a friend. And they said, okay, is he representing you? And he said he probably couldn't because of the relationship with my family. And they said, okay, but are you still okay talking to us? And Chris said, uh-huh.

And they said, you know, I mean, this is something that we, I told you, we're collecting information, right? Chris said, okay. Back to peeing. Okay, because we got interrupted from peeing. Detective Bowdoch says, I mean, like me, I probably get up to pee about three times a night. Oh, Boutish. See a doctor, Daddy, oh, you are not well. I think Boutish is like in his late 50s.

So I think that's probably... Is that what you do in your late 50s? I always hear that. You get up all the time when you're older. I don't know. Oh, no. I definitely get up once a night for sure because I drink so much fucking shit. I pound like half a bottle of water before I go into my bedroom, like an idiot.

I don't know what it is. Maybe I should talk to my doctor because I can sleep 12 hours and not pee once. That's great. That's terrific. Yeah. That's good. Is that good? I think that's okay.

That's good. Yeah. Me, I know what I'm doing. As I'm drinking the water, I'm going, I'm going to be up and peeing in three hours. Fuck. But I'm doing it anyway. I do it every goddamn day. If I tell myself not to do that and just specifically don't drink anything an hour before I go to bed, then I'm fine.

But if I drink like half a Gatorade and a whole bottle of water before bed, I'm fucked. So three times in the night seems like a lot of peeing. Yeah. That's a lot of peeing. He says, oh yeah, my dad gets up to pee a lot. My mom, well, I don't know if she does. So they said, the detective said, but then again, he doesn't have to go that far, right? And Chris says, yeah, it goes 10 feet, if that.

He said, there's a bathroom right there. Chris says, I've heard her get up a bunch of times. She'll get up when I get home usually. She's a pretty light sleeper. she'll hear me come in. Detective says, how you doing in school? Chris says, all right. All right.

Yeah. Detective says, are you really? Chris says, not bad. Which went from all right to not bad, which is not the same thing. The detective said, what's your grade average? Chris says 2.8, 2.9, which isn't great. And the detective said, really? and Chris says could be better.

Detective says, yeah, it could be better, but, you know, whatever. So they go past that. They get into his finances. They talk about his Jeep payment, his credit card bills, and they're adding it up. They're like, so your Jeep payment's like $300 a month. You got a credit card bill with a minimum monthly payment, not monthly payment of this month. You have this, you have that. And they're adding that up going, how the fuck do you pay for that shit?

And he's like, well, I mean, I have a job, but my bills are behind because I don't really have much money. I got to get like a more steady job at school. and blah, blah, blah. They said, so who's been paying for these things while you've not been working? And Chris says, me. And detective says, well, how are you doing that? And he says, American Express bill, I think is late, actually. I'm not really sure.

And then Detective Bowders goes, mm-hmm, a real long, mm-hmm, like you can keep talking now. And they said, well, what about the car? And Chris says, what about it? They said, you said you were late on the car also. And he said, yeah, my parents paid that. So they're even still, after all this shit, they're making his car payments, paying his parking tickets. It's crazy. That's the other part.

He doesn't have any money. He's in the red. And he's gaining. Fully. He's not even following the law of where to park the fucking thing. No, not even at all. He's a mess. Getting more tickets.

So they said, yeah, sure, sure. was there like a hide a key outside they get into now. Okay. Chris said there's a couple. There was one under the deck in the back. And he said under the deck where? And he said, there's a nail. It's hard to describe.

I think I can show you. There's one under the deck and on the right side of the door. There's a planter and it's on one of those little things on the planter on the right side of the door. And he goes into way more detail that I won't get into here. So they said, okay, is there anybody that works around the house, anybody that does the lawn, anybody that's, you know. And Chris says, not really.

I mean, a lot of people would know our garage code and where the key is. So basically, anybody could have broken into the house. A lot of people. A lot of people. The detective said, how would they know that? Chris says, like friends of mine and stuff, you know. So he used an N stuff, any you know, and then follows it with a like. So those are all horseshit words.

He said like after that? He said, like friends of mine and stuff. you know, like, like would come home and there's an audible words. And there were times I'd use the key. I used the front door a lot late at night just because of less noise because I don't want to wake anybody up. So, yeah. So he's saying I tell my friends the code or I'm bringing them with me? Yeah, that's what he said.

So people who have come over and then later on he goes, he says, well, a lot of people have seen me like typing in the security code like my friend. So they'd be right there. They might know of it. So he says it's not as intrusive, I guess, Chris goes on to say. The detective says, sure, well. And then Chris says, that was more in high school. I would use the front door to come home late at night and stuff. The detective says, right, right.

Well, that's why I guess I asked you if there was any valuables left in the house. I mean, in these situations, in all of them, we try to find motives. And Chris says, yeah. And the detective said, well, that's the thing we do. And Chris says, right. Yeah. Okay. The detective said, so was there large amounts of cash?

Was there? Chris interrupts and says, you know why? And the detective said jewelry was there. Chris says, I mean, my mom does have jewelry. And they said, stocks, bonds. And Chris said, I don't know. They've never had large amounts of cash in the house before. My mom has jewelry, but nothing, you know, extravagant or huge.

No crazy, you know, one of the Hope Diamond sitting in her fucking bedroom. Nothing's going to impress my douchebag friends. No, no, I mean, I could give to a girl an impressor, nothing like that. No, no, no. So the detective said, did your father ever have any problems with anybody from work? And Chris said, I mean, he's had death threats and stuff before. You know, as one does. That's real normal.

The worst problems to have from work. Obviously, who doesn't? The detective said, right, when was that? And he said, it was more when he used to work in crime. criminal court and stuff. And the detective said, yeah, I remember that because they all know his dad. Right. So they're all working the court system.

They all know his dad. Everybody knows him. So Chris said he had, you know, people call, they're going to kill us and stuff, that type of thing. Right. Now, the funny thing is, if that happened, he would immediately contact the cops and they would have a record of that, which they don't. Right. And it's people that he would likely be people he was defending.

There's a record of who he's defended and they wouldn't be able to deny what they've done. Or some family of the victim or some shit like that. But yeah. And if you're a lawyer who's getting threats of, I'm going to kill your whole family, you immediately call the police after that. You're not in the mafia. You're not like, well, I'll show fat Tony who's fucking threatening who. That's not how it works. You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's just liabilities of this job. That's all it is. It's a career things. Yeah, it's just a little caveat to your career thing here. So he said, but you're listed in the phone, because you're listed in the phone book, the detective said. And Chris says, I mean, I don't think to my knowledge he's ever had anything like that in years. I mean, he's an easygoing guy, easy to get along with, you know. And the detective said, I remember when he was working there.

And Chris said, oh, he's the best. The best. So they said, so how was your relationship with your parents? He said, it's good. It's good. The detective said, I mean, I had a problem with one of my parents. So, you know, I mean, you know, most of us, you usually kind of lean toward, you know, one or the other. I mean, you've got to talk to one or the other.

Or one is usually in, usually a pain in the other detective said, did you go to your dad and then you can't hear? Chris said, definitely. my dad was more, he wouldn't jump to conclusions as fast and he wouldn't start yelling and stuff. He was more easily, easy to talk to, more reasonable is what he's saying. I love how the detective put that, though. You know, so I said, I had a problem with one of my parents. Like, I can relate to you, buddy. And then we're pals.

And then a bunch of word salad. You know, so I mean, most of us, you usually, you bet, but, blah, blah, but pa, fall starts. Yeah. So they said, okay, they said, how was your mom? And he said, she would be fine after the initial reaction. So she might freak out at first, then she's okay. Yeah. The detective says, okay, well, all right, so let's, so just, so I can get the whole thing straight.

You left town about 315. So I've got to ask these questions. And he said, mm-hmm. And he said, all right, you left your girlfriends at 315. You stopped by your parents briefly on Saturday. That's the day before. Right. Okay.

He said, yeah. And they said, right after that, nobody was home except for the dog. And he said, yeah, I went in, saw the dog and left. Where did you go when you went into the house here? And he said, well, when I opened the door, the dog came, you know, say hi. I went over and turned off the alarm and went over to the garage to see if there was a car to see if my parents were home. So they said, okay, so you found out no one was home and you left. You got on the throughway and then drove back.

and he said directly back to college. And the detective said, right. And then they talked about what exit. And they go on like a three-page thing about fucking roads in upstate New York that you don't need to know about. It's very smart to do it that way because specifics fucking matter. Oh, they pin them down to that. It's just it would be really boring for you guys to hear. So Route 29.

Well, actually, Route 5 goes to Hendersonville Road. It's like, oh, it's mind-numbingly boring, but absolutely necessary to set the whole thing up for them, not for us. Basically, he said he took a straight route on the thrway back to the fucking place because it would take eight hours to get there the other way. That's it. So they said at this point, it's sort of a procedural thing in a case like this. Also, I usually ask if you'd be willing to give us a sample.

And Chris says, sure, DNA? Yeah, sure. And the detective said, well, it's just saliva. That's all it is. It's no big deal. And Chris says, definitely. And they said, all right, have you ever been arrested? And Chris said no.

And the detective said, you're a clean mother, aren't you? Which is just a hilarious line for some reason. I don't know why it is. You're a clean mother, aren't you? And he said, right? Clean mother. All right. I guess the insinuation is it's a clean motherfucker, but it sounds stupid.

Why would you're a clean mother? You're a clean mother, aren't you? then this next part taken out of context is just amazing if you just screenshot it and have it on a notes hit Chris do you want me to take my pants off detective yeah Chris sure

detective okay just lift up your boxers you don't have to okay what's this stuff Chris says I don't know I've got acne I know he's got like a herpy outbreak or something but he said I don't know I've got acne the detective says

Okay, what did you have to eat today? Chris says, Soda cookies hot dog. What are you fucking ate? How are who? What are you eating? This is a very Austin Powers scene. They like always have somebody blowing somebody in a shadow or something.

Absolutely. Hammering a, hammering a dilltoe into him. Well, he's looking in the fridge bending over. Yeah, it's totally is what's going on here. It's a wild quest. an answer that sounds incredibly dirty. What's this under?

Don't, you don't, lift up your boxers. Oh, you don't have to do that. Wait, what is that? What is this? Oh, I've got acne. It's, and then what did you eat today? Which makes it sound like he farted on them or something, which is even better. Or he smells piss and his asparagus.

Yeah. Soda cookies hot dog. Wow. That's a wild, yeah. He went to a nine-year-old's birthday party, is what that. sounds like in the backyard. Oh, you had a Fourth of July party. How did you have that today?

The fuck. So the detective, this is a great line. Damn, you're not going to school to be a nutritionist, are you? That's the detective's life. Which is hilarious. That's brilliant. Or a dermatologist, apparently. Not that either.

He says, no. And they said, well, you can have a seat. Just leave that off for now. It's getting warm in here. His pants? His pants. The detective said, it's like a friggin' oven in here. I'm going to take my shirt off in a minute. This is crazy.

That's like, just take this page out of context and it's fucking bat shit. You're going to have two naked men sitting in an interrogation room, one of them with a gun holster on. It's ridiculous. Because it's getting hot in here. He just got a college student naked and now he's hot. Now I'm getting hot. to take my shirt off. Ten minutes ago, you were fine, officer.

Oh, my God. So they start asking them about, do you have an easy pass? If you don't know what an easy pass is, if you're from a state with no toll roads, an easy pass is a thing you stick on the upper part of your windshield, and that way you don't have to stop at every fucking toll and pay money. It just pays it off the thing. It's electronic. It seems like the three-way costs money to bridges.

It seems like the only places that don't have that. Yeah, are places from Arizona going east, south of the 40? Yeah, that's it. Everywhere else, it's all easy pass. Everything north of the 40, all has them. We rent cars, they got easy passes on them when we're driving them. They all got them. They all got them.

They all got them. They've got them. So he's got the easy pass, and they ask if he does. He says he does. And they're like, oh, that's real convenient. It saves you a lot of money that easy pass. And he's like, oh, yeah, I love it, blah, blah, because the throughway and back is a charge. It's like, cost, like, like, at the beginning, you used to get this sheet when you

get on the throughway that would tell you basically how much it is to each exit. And it would be like, you know, $40 to go to Buffalo from here. You know what I mean? Like crazy expensive. So, and that was 30 years ago, 25 years ago. So the detective said, I was up there that one night. I don't know if you remember me being in there when your house, when your dad called about your house getting broken into. He says, well, you or this other detective, I mean, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure. The detective says, okay, it was, maybe you weren't there at the time. Maybe you were out for the evening, home for the holiday, maybe last Thanksgiving. And Chris says, I don't know.

One of them was on Thanksgiving night. The detective said, yes, I think that's when I was over there, I think. And Chris says, I'm not sure. You are sure. And that's when it was. The detective said, and supposedly, somebody had crawled in through the front window. And Chris said it happened both at the same time, same thing.

He meant both burglaries. It was the same thing. It was the July 2003 burglary as well. He says, the detective says, right, right. And as you know, the strange thing about that whole thing was that there was snow on the ground. Remember, that was a real bitch of a winter. But now it's hot. Let me take my pants off.

Ooh, yeah, feeling better. We should go back to those days when it was cold. cool out. Ooh, yeah. So the detective says, right, it snowed the whole time and the front window who was said to have been, well, the screen was cut, I guess. And Chris says, mm-hmm. The detective said, and the front window was left open a little bit.

But I couldn't find friggin' footprints in the snow outside the house. I couldn't understand that, you know? I mean, if it's snowing and someone comes from the outside of the house, they got to leave prints in the snow, right? Right. So it could never crack that. Chris says, hadn't it snowed that day? I don't remember, but I remember us talking about this at the time.

And the detective says, yeah, but I, well, I don't remember that. I can't tell you, but I do know there was a recent, it was like they realized that day that something had happened, right? And I think if it had, it was just a dusting. And he said, and they had all this stuff around, maybe I didn't have anything fresh, and I just, I couldn't understand that, you know? You're saying like, no what I mean? Wasn't that weird that no one came from the outside of your house to break in?

So he's beating around the bush that he suspects Chris broke in his own house or it was an inside job. Nobody flew from your fucking window. So who the fuck would have done it unless they were in the house? Oh, my God, you were in the house. Oh, maybe it was you. Oh, you were out. So then there's a couple just very funny asides. they say at that point, this is right after, I couldn't understand that, you know.

The next detective says, you hungry, I'm starved. We have pizza up front. Oh. And Chris says, I'm fine. Thank you. And detective says, you want to slice a pizza? And Chris says, no thanks. And he says, how can you decline free food?

Which I think is a great line. How can you decline free food? He says anything to drink besides water or is water good? And he says, water's fine. blah. So they're sitting there after they ate pizza by them. They went back and forth about the pizza. He said, maybe I'll just get a bagel later. And they go, oh, we wish we'd

known. We would have stopped at Dunkin' Donuts and got you a bagel and we went out to get the pizza. You know, oh, damn. We thought you'd eat pizza. Yeah. Apparently, hot dogs and cookies are fine, but not pizza. That's, you know, health-wise. The pizza is all. It's very particular about his pizza as all.

Absolutely. So they talk about his fucking up in school and they say, too much partying, and he says, yeah. They say, do you drink much and he said do I no bitch somebody else my partner who the fuck do you think I'm talking to that mostly naked teenager mostly naked 21 year old sitting in my goddamn

fucking office is what I'm talking to stupid with thigh acne yeah with with thakene they said do you drink much and he said do I and they said yeah and he said yeah he said has it become an issue with your parents at all Chris says no never I think we talked about it a few months ago. I used to drink in high school occasionally about once a week. That's not occasional

for high school, by the way. That's a lot for high school. I'm not a, I can't use me, but I'm not a drinker, but, you know, people I knew that were drinking, you know, every once a month, every couple weeks, do you have a party or you go sit in the woods or whatever the fuck? But once a week is a lot. It's the Friday night. Yeah, it's the Friday night party that somebody's parents went out of town. If you're doing that every week, that's a lot of drinking. That's a lot. I mean, I smoked a lot of That was way more than once a week, but it was once a week was, I don't drink once a week now. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, I drink once a month maybe. Bottle wine we'll have. That's about it. That's about all I drink, yeah. Like when we go out, we're on the road and we go out, that's like, I haven't drank in weeks. So I'm like, hey, we're going to tie one on and drink some wine tonight. I was drinking pretty fucking heavy for a minute there. Once a week would have been chilling it out.

but as an 18 to 20 year old child, once a week drinking. That's high school. When you drink that age, you drink heavy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're getting it all in while you can. We got a half hour before someone's parents come home and chug that shit. It's a binge.

Yeah. And this was not 18 to 20. This is 14 to 18. This is in high school. That's a lot of drinking. That's a lot here. He said they never knew until we talked about it. I mean, you take your time and blah, blah, blah, because it's inaudible.

So they said, what do you drink? And he said, cheap beer. Yeah. Frat, douche. And they said, do you? And he said, mostly, yeah. What kind of beer? Bush.

What do you think the answer is? Bush or not? Worse than Bush. Jenny light. What the fuck is that? Geneseo, I believe. Is that the Geneseo? I've never heard of it.

That's what they, that's what the drunks. That's what the real drunks used to drink in Pennsylvania. you like if you went to my relatives house in scrant and they had kegs of jenny fucking geneseo beer and it was brutal um i think if the detective says oh my god i've got to look into that i got to look into the law there might be a law for drinking that kind of stuff that's pretty bad breaking his balls um where were you last night and they said okay this is sunday night right uh and he said yeah they said so you studied for the test in the library until all right 11 because this is his alibi now.

He said he had been with his girlfriend before that. He's got a girlfriend named Sarah that he's been with for a bit here. So they said, you studied in the library till 11. He says, yes. They said, what, what then? He said, then I watched Total Recall. The Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. 2004, all right.

He's watching Total Recall. Would that come out? Like 90, 91, something like that? Yeah, it's pretty old. Yeah. The detective said, in your dorm room? He says yes. So they said, who did you watch TV with?

And he said, me and myself at that point. Stupid answer. People came in and out, but I wouldn't say they were watching. So it's Sunday evening. And he said, I watch TV by myself. So you said, you watch TV by yourself. And he says, yes, total recall. It's not important, I think.

It's on the computer in my room. But he kept saying total recall. So the detective says, so you went in, from what time to what time? Do you mean, did you mean 11? Did you get back? And Chris says about one. So they say 11.15 until and Chris says, not long, probably a couple hours.

I watch total recall. The detective says, you watch total recall. Okay, then what? We get that total recall. Thank you. He keeps bringing it up. So he goes, I- This doesn't have to see this long.

Yeah, I just have to see it. So he says at that point, this is Chris, at that point, the RD, the RD, the resident, the regional director, the resident, whatever, went to sleep in my room and I was in the lounge. I fell asleep. You fell asleep in the lounge? And Chris said, that's where I was sleeping. And they said, when is this?

And he said, last night. They said, oh, last night, what did you sleep on? And he said, a couch. It's a university issue. There's couches in there. They said, what time did you fall asleep? He said, I was watching. I'm not sure what time I watched TV until I fell asleep.

So that's what he says out of that. Now, Was it total recall? I think he was watching, don't quote me. Almost positive was total recall. So. Probably fell asleep watching total recall.

Think so. So then they say, Chris, this was a crime of passion. There was a lot of emotions going on here. This was not a robbery, okay? And Chris says, I didn't say that it was a robbery. I don't know what happened.

You haven't told me anything about it. There was absolutely no arguments ever. Huh? What does that have to do with anything? So they're talking about all this. And detective said, I wish I wasn't, I wish, I wish I haven't wasn't having to tell you all this. I really do. But I'm telling you the truth, son.

And it hurts me to do this. I don't enjoy this whatsoever. And Chris says, I don't think you do either. And the detective said, honestly, honest to God, I knew your father for a long time. That's why I'm saying that maybe, maybe something got out of hand. all right. I'm trying, I don't know, you know, I'm trying to say maybe I can help a bit, a little bit here, maybe all right, but someday you've got to work with me a little bit, all right? I've got to try. That was word salad meant nothing. Terrible interrogation.

Why do you say all that? Because he's not good at this at all. He's bad at this. Chris says there's nothing to work with. I don't know what you want me, you want me to come in and say that I killed my parents, that would be a lie. That's fucked up. I would never do that. There's no way in hell. You know, you think I'm cold and stuff. How do you know what? You don't know what I've been like. And the detective says, well, I mean, I'd have to agree. And Chris says, you have no idea. You have no idea what I'm feeling right now. And the detective says, we don't. And he says, no, you don't. You don't. And the detective says, it doesn't seem like it's bothering you because when I talk to you today at three or four o'clock on the phone, you sure

didn't sound really upset then either, and that was a half hour after you found out. So now they're starting to close it in. He said, I was extremely upset. Detective said, sure didn't sound like it. And Chris says, you're not being very perceptive, which I think is a hilarious life. Then the detective comes in again with another word salad here. Detective jumps in and he says, look, look, it's, let's not get temper short here.

Okay. What I'm telling you is fact. I'm telling you the truth, all right? That's why I'm sitting here right now talking to you, all right? Yes, I would have to talk to the rest of your family because, of course, I have to, all right? But you're the one I was talking to right now. And this is the information that I have and I'm telling you the truth. I'm not lying to you, all right? There's no doubt about it. And there were other people who witnessed it, all right? Meaning he's fought with his parents before. Chris says, I'd like to speak to them and see for myself. I don't believe that. And the detective said, what difference is that going to make? And Chris starts saying something it will make. And the detective said, unless you're suggesting I'm lying to you, you know what? Look it. I've been in this business a long time.

I couldn't lie to you because he goes on and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he says maybe it was an emotional flare up or something, you know. Maybe that's what I'm looking for. give me something to grasp here. Let me get through the night. Chris says nothing happened. And he said, and you understand what I've been telling you. This is not a robbery.

This is a crime of emotions. And Chris said, I know what you're telling me. I don't know. I have absolutely no idea. So then the detective says, I mean, like I told you, in my estimation, that situation, the way I'm seeing it was something happening out of a passionate moment. Chris says, you told me they were in bed. So I don't know how passionate that could be.

honestly. How much passion could someone, someone outside of that? Well, maybe there was a third. We don't know. Yeah, but I mean, he's not understanding that there doesn't have to be an argument that happened right then. It could have been something that's been bubbling for a long time. The point is the lashout is the passionate part. But he's saying there was some sort of emotional thing. Your father yelled at you, you yell back. There's a buildup. There's a build up at escalated. Yeah. So he said, and then afterwards, those emotions subside and the thought is what's happened what have I done what has happened here what an awful thing Chris says I agree it's an awful thing The detective says sometimes your emotions get the best of you and overtake you and Chris says true but I can't help you

He detective says your stomach is going to burn a hole in it the only way to stop it is to be a man So he's now this is directly from the psychology paper here commenting on this. The investigator is attempted to play into Porco's emotions and manhood as a strategy to elicit a confession, but the strategy got him nowhere. Interviewers must avoid belittling the psychopathic suspect. Not going to help. They're just going to fight you and push back.

Porco gives bland answers absent of emotion. Neither do his responses offer any insight into the murder itself instead of attempting to get him to feel guilty about his actions in the hope of a confession, the investigator should have remained calm similar to Porco to ask questions. Match his demeanor. He doesn't feel guilt, so that's a fucking dry well is what they're saying there. When Porco's responses did not match the evidence collected, the investigator should have calmly confronted Porco about the inconsistency and further allowed him the opportunity to bury himself with more lies that could be revealed at trial together with his lack of emotions just hours after attacking his parents.

Great point. Yeah, this is why these people are doctors. About midway through the interview, a detective from the New York State Police was brought in. He was very matter of fact in his inquiry and non-threatening in his approach. He questioned Porco about his trade of grandiosity, and that's this. The detective said, I'm still not quite understanding why you'd go around telling people you have all this money. That kind of baffles me. Chris says, no, I, the detective said, you put on this facade.

And Chris said, it is. And I've done it for a couple of years now. He knows he has to admit that because everyone talks about it. Yeah, I'm a bullseater. So the detective says, what does that say about your character? And Chris says, exactly, which is a weird answer to that. Exactly. Exactly, okay?

Interesting. So, what do you like, what do you think about my new shirt? Correct. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Then he says, Chris, seriously, what? No, tell me what does it say about your character? He said, you tell me what it says. I'm not, this isn't a, I'm not throwing an insult. What does that say about it? I'm asking you what it says. Fair. Exactly.

Chris says, I guess it's an, it's insecurity in a way. And then the detective says, does it tell you that you're, an honest person. And Chris says, not in that respect, no. And he says, trustworthy. And Chris, Chris says, I think of myself as trustworthy, I guess. If we're going to respond in reference to this, no, I guess I'm not. So this is the approach to take with Chris.

Right. Got to make him admit things that he knows he has to admit. You got to point out his bullshit so that he doesn't have a way to escape it and just make him look right at it. But not with guilt because that ain't going to work. Right, right. The detective says, I mean, if I, if I'm a student and I meet you and you're telling me you're going to buy a house because you've got millions of dollars from your grandmother. Chris says true. He said, you're basically lying to these people, right?

And Chris says, well, it kind of steam rolled away. I got too far down Casey Anthony's hallway and I couldn't turn back. There's nowhere to go at that point. Cops showed up and walked me into Universal. What was I supposed to do? Of course I had to lie inside my office is right here. The detective says, no, let's not color code it. And Chris says, I know it's wrong.

And then he says, the detective says, do you consider it lying? And Chris says, oh, definitely, yeah, you know, I'm telling them something that's not really true. Then the detective says, are you a pathological liar? Something you do all the time. Chris says, I don't think so. I mean, maybe in that respect. So then the detective said, well, what other things have you lied about? This is good progress.

Chris says really one thing. Yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else. Just money. I don't really know why I got started on it. It was in high school. So this is from the psychological paper, quote, this non-confrontational style the detective should have continued with Porco. The detective did not have to browbeat Porco into the admission that he lies.

Yet as the interview progressed, he too fell into the same strategy the other detectives followed, which was to use an emotional and confrontational approach. In the Porco case, the detectives initially gave Chris the option to choose the crime of passion motive for the kill that produced no confession. Next, the detectives pitched the morally repugnant motive for the murder. These are both guilt-based, though. That's the problem. He says, the detective says, let me guess, there's an insurance policy. Chris says, I would kill my parents for money?

Brilliant. Which is totally my cousin Vinnie. I shot the clerk. It says right here, I shot the clerk. I shot the clerk. I'd kill my parents

from money. Brilliant. Brilliant. They said, Chris, you, exactly. Yeah. They said, Chris,

you have no alibi. Do you understand that? And he kind of grumbles a little bit. They said, you have a motive. I don't understand, and Chris says, I don't understand what you think my motive is.

And the detective said, well, money. And he said, I'm going to kill my parents for $300,000. I mean, come on. Is that all it is? There's a little bit more than that. He's downplaying the insurance at this point. There's, I think, almost a million in total.

Detective says, yeah. Okay. Chris says, why? Wow. Okay. The detective said, people do it all the time. And then Chris says, that's horrible. He's clutching his purse.

now, closing his cardigan. He's very upset by that. He is virtuous. Very, very, that's horrible. Yeah. The detective says, you know what I'm saying? You got to get this off your chest. This is going to eat you up.

You know that, don't you? Your hair's going to fall out. They're threatening him with baldness. Chris says, I'm going to happen to you, man. Chris says, I can't help you. So, again, this is from the psychological paper. The problem with attempting to confront Chris with these two different motives is that neither motive is applicable or matters to Chris.

That's the problem. Yeah, we don't have any evidence that he's super vain about his fucking hair. No. No, we don't know that. He might be thinking about shaving it. We don't have no fucking clue what's going on. Specifically, Chris does not reactively kill because of an argument he had with his father or mother, nor is Christopher bothered by the morally repugnant reason to prove motive because his pathological narcissism

reflects a highly entitled, highly exploitive person. He does not have a problem with taking advantage of others for self-gratification reasons, nor does he engage in a moral debate about the rightness or wrongness of a given behavior. We even see after he invokes his rights, which is coming up, the detectives continue to question him because of their frustration. The detective says, listen, all right, I've known you for a long time, for a long time, all right? I'm not going to ask you anything. We'll take a ride and let's try.

try to straighten this out, okay? We're going to go up to, we'll go take a polygraph and make sure your, or at least exonerate you. He said, let's get in the car, go take a polygraph. Come on, it'll be fun, hop in. It'll be a good time. We'll stop for hot dogs and fucking sodas and cookies.

You'd have shotgun. We don't care. Get in. We don't care. Chris says, do I have to have a lawyer present for that? Oh, boy. The detective says, no, well, at least it will exonerate you from this.

and the detective, Chris says, right, I want to have a lawyer present for that. This is a problem with a guy who's the son

of a lawyer. I'm surprised he let it go on this long. The detective said, why is that? And Chris says, because I'm not sure that I'm being treated

fairly. The detective says, you're being treated fairly. I assure you. Chris says, well, I'd like to make sure of that. The detective says,

well, if you are accepting to take the polygram, Are you accepting to take it? And Chris says, I'll take one. The detective goes, mm-hmm. And Chris says, after I've spoken to a lawyer. Yeah.

Yeah. They said, why do you need to speak to one first? And the other detective says, well, look at Chris. Why would that be? And Chris says, because I want to make sure my rights are protected. I feel I've done nothing wrong. So they answer back. Well, I'll tell you what.

I'm not going to run the test. It's not me. You know, if you're worried about that. Chris says, I'm not saying you're biased. I don't think you are. And the detective said, no, we don't do the test. And he says, I hope you don't. I know you don't.

And detective says, well, look it, I'm just going to throw this out at you real quick. I had a rape case some years ago, all right? I hope it was that he was investigating, not against him. Jesus. He said, the person went in and took the polygraph and passed it. I shook his hand and bit him a good day. I'm serious. I'm dead serious, right.

afterwards I found out through further investigation he was in fact innocent all right and Chris goes that's good he's a self he has does not care about that guy that guy can he could have said I pushed him off a cliff and Chris would have went all right that's good he wouldn't have given a fuck right yeah the detective said that is why I keep telling you keep us like I said give us a baseline here and Chris said after I've spoken to a lawyer I'd be happy to take one okay so then the says, well, I'm going to tell you this, too. He's just, this is crazy. No lawyer I've ever met has allowed their client to take a polygraph, and I'll tell you why.

It's because they feel as though it's never going to be good for them. If you're innocent, though, it will indicate that. I'm telling you right now, it does indicate false or true. Chris says, oh, I, okay, I know they work very well. The detective says, we don't do it. So that's why I would hope you would just take it to eliminate you. Please. Now, they're begging him.

please please I implore you Chris says after I've spoken to a lawyer I'd be happy to take one detective says as I said I don't know of one and Chris says I'll talk to a lawyer about it make a decision I don't feel I have anything to hide but and the detective says well you know what if I felt as though I was it was still incriminating

of the evidence I have right now I wouldn't be asking you to take it because I wouldn't need it You know what I mean? She basically said, I don't have any evidence against you, so I need this. I've got nothing. So give me a polygraph so that I can make something. When he told him, I have nothing, Chris swelled, you know, he probably gained 100 pounds in ego at that point.

And Chris said, I understand that. And he says, I hope there wouldn't be, Chris says. I honestly believe that if my mother told you that I killed her husband, you would have you'd already have me in handcuffs. because they said your mother nodded. No. They said your mother nodded. And we think that's why we thought it was you.

And he's like, look, obviously you don't think that's true because if you did, why would I be sitting here in my boxers being offered pizza? I'd be in handcuffs. Right. So. Being asked about my fucking hot bod. Yeah. The detective said, no, I'm dead serious. So here is the psychological paper.

Again, we see Porco agreeing to take a polygraph with a lawyer present and how the detective questioning him about. about why he wants an attorney. We also observe how much bolder Christopher becomes with the detective on criminal matters. Initially, during the get-to-know-you stage, Chris was more subdued. But once he called the detective's bluff, the egotcentrism could not be contained.

Now, you figured out, you guys have shit, and we can sit here all day, and I'm not going to give you anything, and you don't have anything. Although the entire six-hour transcript cannot be transcribed. It is, and I have it. It's a mess. The unfortunate aspect, I mean, in their paper,

they can't put the whole six hours. The unfortunate aspect is that the detectives offered little in terms of sophistication. No indication of a planned interview and how to conduct follow-up questions with information Christopher disclosed. They appeared chaotic, spoken vague generalities, and there was no match for Christopher who pressed the detectives for information as the interview progresses. College student is whipping your ass. Yeah, you're not real good at this, and he realizes that. And, you know, what was observed are the detectives constantly being apologetic to Christopher and trying to win Christopher's approval of who they are and then switching strategies by trying to make him feel guilty about what he did. Hey, let's be best friends and then you won't want, then you'll feel bad in front of me, which they don't care about friends or feelings.

Nope. Police interviewers are often drawn into answering questions that in the eyes of the psychopath diminish their credibility or authority. and this is evident in this case. So they have a breakdown here of traits and his responses that match up to the psychopathic traits. One is superficial charm. Christopher compliments that the detectives are doing a good job, as he said that, remember? Another is egocentric. Christopher wants to know why the police took so long in calling him in to participate in this interview.

No affect or emotion. They say there's no emotional display by Christopher of knowing his father's dead or his mother, his reaction in the hospital observing his mother and none at the interview just hours after the murder. Lack of remorse, he displayed no signs of remorse, pathological lying. He admitted on several occasions to lying to family and friends. Manipulative, he took advantage of family members and former employers and forged school transcripts and all that. Grandiosity, he bragged about being from a wealthy family, which is false. He admitted to being impulsive. Impulsivity is one of them.

Poor planning. Christopher admitted that he does not know what happens to his finances in terms of not having money available and does not know or care about how his behavior contributes to his financial problems. And criminal behavior, they knew about his theft and fraud. So it's unreal. They go on to say. They go on to say. This long for all of this to be found out. Yeah.

It's fucking amazing. Yeah. So he said the Porco case is an important illustration on how not to conduct an interview, and the transcript of the interview should be used as a teaching and training tool by law enforcement agencies. Of what not to do. Too often, violent crime investigators seem to overwhelm the suspect by playing into his or her emotional mindset to obtain a confession, whilst neglecting preparation and planning of an

interview because of the belief that the suspects distraught emotional state of mind will not make interview preparation necessary. Approaching interviews with suspects that display psychopathic traits by attempting to appeal to an empathic format may prove to be fatally flawed. So they go on to really have a lot to say about this. That's a lot of fun. So one thing is, according to interview expert Dr. Rabin, or Donald Rabin, confronting the pathological person with facts and details that are contrary to his assertions is like trying to nail jello to a wall. Can't do it. So, anyway, the police in the newspaper say they're still investigating the slaying.

No arrests have been made. They said police talked to Christopher and his brother and that both have regularly visited their mother in the hospital. Police were notified, though, this is the Friday after the murder, that Christopher has hired a defense attorney, Terry Kinlan, to represent him. Meanwhile, both sons attended the father's funeral as well. Okay. Now, great. The nod is the big deal. How valid is this nod?

That's that Joan made that Christoph, because that's all they really have at that point. That's a great question. They said her jaw was broken. She was unable to speak, was conscious and alert and responsive. She followed the paramedics commands, put your arm down, stop moving your leg, and answered with nods and finger movements, and scored as communicative on the Glasgow coma scale, which I did not know existed. because she couldn't answer open-ended questions, they were asking her yes or no questions.

He asked if the family member did this. She nodded yes. He asked if it was Jonathan. She shook her head no. He asked if it was Christopher. And according to him, she forcefully adamantly nodded yes more than once. And two paramedics back up that account who were standing right there.

One said he found Joan on her back, left eye missing, jaw crushed, teeth missing, and head fractured, yet following commands, and he watched her nod, yes, with a question about Chris. Okay. Joan ends up coming out of a medically induced coma days later. Get the fuck out of here. She is okay. I mean, she survives.

But she's going to make it. She's going to make it. She's going to pull through. Uh-oh. You know how many hours she was in there like that? Yeah, that's. It could have been eight, ten hours. hours. It's insane.

Who knows? One chop more could have ended that. That's it. On that brain, done. But it just, wow. She had no recollection of the attack. None when she woke up. Wait.

Doesn't remember the nod. Doesn't remember any of that shit. She has no idea who did this. None. No clue who did this. She said, I don't remember anything about it. Yep. But one thing she knew was her son is goddamn innocent

and he's not the one who did this to me. Really? Yep. And they told her, but you said when you were going in, she said, I don't care. I don't remember it,

and he wouldn't do that to me. So, no. I don't remember it. He definitely didn't do it. That's right. Wow. Now, the prosecution, there's a neurosurgeon

that the DA is going to hire here. This is a guy who did the 12-hour surgery that saved her life. Twelve hours. Imagine doing surgery for 12 hours. That would be, horrifying. Not only as a patient, as the doctor, that would be crazy. So they testified that the injured part of her brain, the frontal lobe, controls emotion, not sight or speech, and that there

was no medical reason why she couldn't have identified her attacker while she was on the bed being, you know, when they found her. She said she could have been able to do that. Then the police discover all the dark side of Chris, by the way, because now they figure out the manipulated college transcripts, the false grades. It's more than just you stole some shit and put it on eBay and maybe stole your parents' laptop or whatever. The Jeep is douchy enough. And the way you went about getting it is even worse.

No, shit. Oh, my God. So during the course of this, authorities determined that Chris had a history of antisocial behavior that included burglarizing his parents' homes, stealing and selling their computer equipment on eBay. Jones stolen laptop, they found it. They tracked it down. It was sold to a man in California.

The sale is traced right back to Christopher through his bank account. Police flew to San Diego in 2005, recovered the laptop. And in court, the buyer said the seller is Christopher Porco. So that's done. The Jeep now. Okay. Four campus and off-campus cameras caught a yes. Jeep, just look just like Chris's, none others do, leaving Rochester at 10.30 p.m. on November 14th and returning at 8.30 a.m. on November 15th.

Uh-oh. That's not good. Tull collectors on both ends of the throughway remembered a yellow Jeep with huge tires, a winch, a W sticker, and a young white male driver. Because that stood out more than any fucking car they saw that day. you idiot. Get them, should have got a Mazda protege and shut the fuck up and nobody would have noticed him. Instead, yeah.

Got to be a big shot. The W? Is it George W? That W? Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's what it's for.

And then a Bush Cheney sticker too. So then they look at Chris's easy pass, which he normally used, but today it was found jammed down into the console rather than stuck on the windshield. So it couldn't be red. So he couldn't be red. Okay.

So he just paid. cash, which meant paper toll tickets, and we'll get to that in a minute here. Okay. Now, here's the timeline they put together. Sunday, November 14th, 1030 p.m., a campus parking lot surveillance camera records Christopher's yellow jeep leaving the University of Rochester. He said he was moving it off campus to avoid a parking ticket. Okay.

The prosecution said, no, you weren't. You're getting on the goddamn throughway to drive to fucking Albany. Okay. 1036 p.m., a camera on the roof of a medical Center captures his Jeep headed east toward the throughway to go to Albany. Yep. 10.45 p.m., throughway exit 46 in Rochester. Toll collector John Fallon says he handed a ticket to a young white male in a baseball cap

driving a yellow Jeep with large tires. He remembers it because he thought it would be a nice car for his son. Oh. Interesting. Yeah. 11.30 p.m. to 3.30 a.m. Chris says he was asleep on the couch in the dorm lounge having given up his bed for a visiting fraternity president. But the Frat brothers who were up watching a movie in the small four-car couch lounge until 3.30 say he was never there.

We sat there the whole fucking time. And he said it's a square room and some couches and TVs. It's not like maybe he was over there and we overlooked him. He wasn't there. Right. It would be like, yeah. Do you know if someone's in your living room? probably. It wasn't like they were in a ballroom. So, yeah. 151 a.m. toll collector

Karen Russell recalls a yellow Jeep speeding into her lane, a young white male at the wheel. Exit 24 is less than 10 miles from Broccoli Drive in Delmar, the house. To 14 a.m., the burglar alarm is deactivated using the master code at the house. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Only a hand. of people had it. Peter, Joan, Jonathan, Christopher, an uncle and a close family friend. In case they go out of town, probably to watch the dog, shit like that. The keypad is smashed also, by the way. Oh? They said the alarms, they said it looked like they were trying to hide that the code

was used, maybe by smashing the pad. But the alarm's memory is in a box in the basement, logging all the shit. Yeah. So smashing the keypad didn't do shit. And they said using the master code. This is what the cops say about Chris. Using the master code was like dropping his wallet at the crime scene. Like, dude, we know it's you. And you were there at 2.14. And at 151, you were 10 miles away.

You know what I mean? It all lines up too perfectly. 2.15 to 454 a.m. This is the axe used as the family's fireman axe. Like to go through a wall or trap for a fire.

Yeah. The fire safety axe. Absolutely, yep. And they said this was in a dark room and also Peter had blackout shades for his sleep apnea because he would wake up. Apparently, this happened in their bed.

He attacked them in their bed, 16 blows to Peter, multiple blows to Joan, and the axes left at the foot of the bed, handle pointing up. Okay. And he just... Four, yep. 4 a.m., the neighbor

who's leaving for work to do construction said, out in my mind whatsoever. That was Chris's Jeep in their driveway at 4 a.m. 4.54 a.m., phone company record show the telephone line running from a pole across the wooded backyard, a spot that Jonathan later said Chris knew well because they'd shoot paintballs at the junction box as kids gets cut. So the phone is cut at 454.

A garage window screen is also cut and the window left open. So it looks like it was staged, someone breaking in, cutting the lines, breaking in. 512 a.m. Thruway exit 24, Albany. The Jeep reenters the throughway heading back toward Rochester. 8.30 a.m., the medical center rooftop camera catches the yellow Jeep returning toward campus in Rochester. 3 hours later. 8.45, a student testifies she saw Chris jogging across campus near a bridge in shorts and a baseball cap. minutes before his frat brothers say they saw him asleep on the lounge couch.

So the alarm log in the basement showed the master code disarming the system at 2.14 a.m. Only the family had the code. We got surveillance video. We got toll collectors. We got an easy pass not used. We got all this shit. You know what we don't have? Oh, fingerprints.

We don't have DNA. Yeah. Then they get the toll ticket. Oh. Okay. The DNA expert testifies later that mitochondrial DNA on the throughway toll ticket matched Christopher at a 99.6% probability. It's pretty good. It's pretty good chances.

Pretty decent. When you put that with everything else. Now, through all of this, what do you do if you're Joan? Because you're alive. You're obviously saying he didn't do this. So you don't. But wouldn't you be, if everyone's telling you? you he did it based on evidence wouldn't you be kind of like oh shit maybe i should be careful my son

in right well she buys in so hard she starts writing letters to the newspapers begging the police and and the papers to leave her son alone and hunt for peter's real killer yeah absolutely she wrote is that delusion or is that just yeah is that being a good mom i'm not sure if that's being a good mom being support. It's hard to tell. I don't know how to put myself in the position of being I mean, this close to being fucking murdered with an axe in my own bed and the cops are telling me my son did it. And he's my son. I mean, my husband's dead. All I have left are my two sons. And I can't put anything on her. I don't know what she's thinking. I got one of each. And if I'm told, yeah, if I'm injured and I don't remember it and a cop tells me that either of my

kids did it. I'm throwing them both in jail. Oh, I believe them both. Yeah. One of them talked the other one into it. They were around it together, probably, is how it goes. So here, though, yeah, I don't know if it's I don't know what it is. So she said, and a part of her letter was, I want to say unequivocally that although I have no memory whatsoever of the attack,

I'm absolutely positive that my son was in no way involved in this heinous crime. That's amazing. No, don't remember it, but I'm positive. So, November 4th, 2005, the grand jury indicts Christopher for second-degree murder and attempted murder. He's pled not guilty, and that's it. They take him away. A judge right after that set bail at $250,000 cash or a $1 million bond, which is a lot.

December 2nd, 2005, he's out on bail. He posts it. His fucking mom and his family and his friends raised his bail. Unbelievable. Okay. Asked how he felt by the press, he said, quote, pretty good. He's absolutely innocent and looking forward to the trial. Can't wait.

We can't wait. We're forward to it. Yeah. This is where a lot of people say he was like living it up during this time, pulling a Menendez, like a full-on Menendez partying, driving the Jeep around, just living it up during while he's out on bail. Now, where's he going to live? Well, veterinarians that he worked for who'd known him since they were a teenager took him into their home where they already have two teenage kids. You know, let this guy in there.

He said, the veterinarian said, I'm aware of evidence that they did find at the crime scene that makes me believe that it was not Christopher. This point, she's pointing to a fingerprint found near the cut phone line. This fingerprint was never matched to Chris or anybody else. Not anywhere else in the house by the cut phone line way in the backyard. Okay. January 8th, 2005, big article in the newspaper, threat to judges tied to U.R. Dad Slaying. University of Rochester's Dad Slaying. Okay.

A letter that allegedly threatens two sitting New York judges and one who is retired is tied to the investigation into the homicide of the father of a university of Rochester. student. Christopher, a junior majoring in economics, had been questioned by the police about the attacks on his parents who lived in the Hamlet of Delmar. According to the Albany Times Union, the letter allegedly stated that Porco's death was, quote, a starting point. Oh. Yeah.

In addition to Cardona, who was the judge his dad worked for, the letter also named New York Chief Judge Judith Kay and Thomas Keegan, a retired state Supreme Court justice. The letter was sent to the Times Union in late December, and the paper reported it. Dang. It said, because of its threatening tone, security has been ratcheted up for the judges, the Times Union reported. The newspaper gave the letter to police unopened because it contained a powdery substance, which was analyzed and determined to be harmless. This was in the time when people thought anthrax were in every fucking letter.

Remember that brief time period? Oh, yeah. I worked at the Arizona Theater Company, and you had to like that. like there was a certain procedure to opening the mail. I'm like, we're a non-profit theater company. Who the fuck? This has nothing to do with any. I don't think anyone's going to try to kill us over here.

I think we're okay. Yeah. So they said that, Heffron said he would classify the letter as a break, wouldn't classify the letter as a break in the case. It's just another area we're investigating. Joan has been released from the hospital and is staying with family and getting a lot of outpatient care. They said, we've interviewed her, and it's safe to say at some point in the future we'll re-interview her.

So who knows if this letter's real? Now, pre-trial. Okay. Several New York area psychologists and mental health professionals familiar with the case stated that Christopher Porco fits the profile of a psychopath. And they focused on his pattern of lying and deceitful behavior. They also pointed out his pattern of the grandiose perceptions of centering on himself as a member of a wealthy family. and all that shit. While awaiting trial, many found him

to be strangely arrogant, drinking in bars, attending concerts, going out to entertainment establishments, and driving around. He's out partying. He's partying. I mean, there's certainly a way to drown your sorrows in something.

But to be out in public like that, when everybody knows what you're accused of. At some point, he was doing this. Yeah. Which is nothing you should be He's at a concert. He was at a concert.

He was raising a glass when they said raised your glass. You know, like, good fuck, man. Are you kidding me? That's wild. And still driving around this searingly yellow Jeep to as well. Unbelievable. So, yeah, a forensic psychologist, Wolfert said there's an overlap between psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies. Christopher believes that he, that the rules do not apply to him and he has a need to show off in front of people.

His defense attorney is a character, by the way. Terry Kindlin is his name. Legend of the Albany kind of criminal defense area here. This guy had left Ithaca college when he was younger to attend to enlist in the Marines, where he was wounded during the Tet Offensive in 1968. Jesus. He got a purple heart, a bronze star with the V for valor, and medically retired as a sergeant, then finished college, went to Albany.

Law School, did five years as a public defender with Peter Porco. Impressive. And built a career on criminal defense and civil rights. He's also a pilot and an angel flight volunteer. I don't know what that is. And a father of seven. He's got a lot going on. Is Angel Flight?

Is that not? I have no idea. Some sort of make a wish thing maybe. I don't know. No, I thought it was like taking care of people in a plane when they're all that way somewhere. Not sure. His co-counsel is his wife, by the way.

Lori Shanks, an Albany Law School professor who handled the technical spine of the defense, DNA, neurology, and making Joan into a sympathetic figure. So they get some wins. They win a change of venue. They got bail. They got the entire six-hour interrogation suppressed. Tossed. All of it. because the lawyer, because a lawyer had identified himself to police as Chris's attorney and been kept from the interview, which is not quite a Miranda violation, but it's they call it a Miranda adjacent violation.

It's close. And it's not, it doesn't hold up because I remember in the homicide book, they were saying how one of the things they know is like when a lawyer comes in says, I want to see my client, you don't have a constitutional right to your client. Your client has a right to you, meaning they have to ask for it. Not you ask for them. They have to ask for you. So they could be sitting in there for hours and that's not their fucking problem. But apparently that's also in Maryland and New York. There may be a little more to the letter of the law.

The judge does allow the nod in, though. Really? The nod, yes, which is a big fucking deal. The trial is moved to Goshen, New York, which isn't that far for me, because the capital region publicity was overwhelming. and Albany judges all had to recuse themselves because Peter worked in their courthouses. So there's no way. Now, other evidence, prosecutors allege that Chris asked two friends to take an economics test for him because he knew he'd fail it.

This is leading up to the murder. So they're trying to show bad character. In the weeks before the murder, they said he became less and less social due to the increasing stress in his life. He became violent at times. Oh. He allegedly choked one student until others pulled him off. of him and threatened to kill a female student who was teasing him. He's going to kill a girl.

Wow. Whether jurors heard all this depended on the judge's rulings on prior bad acts, much of it was fought over well before. So the change of venue like we talked about, that's about 100 miles. Now, the Peter and Joan each had a will. If both died, the estate went to the sons. And with life insurance and death benefits, the estate ran past a million. dollars.

Wow. Yeah. So the prosecutor said they're only worth 60,000 alive, dead they're worth 1.1 million. What does that say? Fuck them. Fuck them. Now, Joan is supporting Chris this whole time. She sold the house for $260,000 in 2006 and moved in with her brother.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Joan, don't do this. So the trial happens. Joan is there every day. Yeah. Both sides paint a very different picture of Chris. Okay.

The prosecution said he's a young man living in a house of cards through deception who invented a rich kid persona telling frat brothers that his grandmother owned all this shit while he robs from his own family and forges his father's signature and sells stolen goods on eBay. It's all honest. It's all real. Well, the defense's version is way more like, hey, boys will be boys. they call him a happy go lucky kind of goofball college kids who maybe did some really dumb things but loved his parents and everybody likes him. Financial crimes that are going to be caught one day. Wow. Talk about two sides of the same coin that is. You know what I mean? That's what I'm. Also, the vet job. Now, for the prosecution, it was proof of tradecraft, they said.

basically that Chris had been trained to clean up after animal surgeries trained in how to avoid biological contamination. He knows that very well. Okay. He said, but the defense said, here's a kid who two veterinarians trusted so much. Even though he was accused of murder, they let him into their own house with their young children and everything else. So that goes both ways. Also, the master code. The state says the alarm was disarmed with a code only the family knew.

then the keypad was smashed. But the defense said Peter had the habit, Peter himself, had a habit of shutting down the alarm to let the dog go back out, then neglecting to put the alarm back. Also the key in the front door. They said that the hidden spare key was left in the front door, which is a mistake by him. The defense said a bloody disoriented Peter,

believing he locked himself out may have used that key while wandering. Either way. Also, the cut screen in the phone line. The people said that's staging. The cut in the backyard phone line and a garage screen to fake a burglary. The defense says a cut phone line raises the question of whether a professional did this, not a college kid. Okay. Also, the surveillance, the Jeep.

The state says surveillance shows the Jeep leaving Rochester at 1030 p.m. and returning at 8.30 a.m. The defense says that only proves that he left campus. to dodge a parking ticket, shows nothing about where he went. The people said, okay, well, how about the toll ticket with his DNA on it? Does that prove it? 99.6% consistent. Mitochondrial DNA.

The defense said mitochondrial DNA could fit 70 plus percent of the population. The ticket passed through the hands of a now deceased detective who disliked Porco because Chris had dated both his daughters. So there was a chain of custody problem with that, they said. He's fucked sisters? Apparently went out with them at least. Well, you don't know that he fucked him. Yeah. Yeah.

There's the neighbor, the guy who saw the Jeep at four. The defense said maybe he's mistaken. His stepfather's a cop. Another neighbor drove a similar Jeep. Nobody remembers one specific car on a long street at 4 a.m. They do if it's that. That's the thing. If it's a bright yellow lifted fucking Jeep, they do.

And I have a picture of the fucking Jeep I'll post on social media. It's very. It's noticeable from space. It's unique. It's unique. The Hubble telescope said he's driving the Jeep on the fucking throughway. I can see it. It's crazy.

So also the missing blood here. The state says he may not have gotten much blood on him. He had hours to change and he was vet trained to avoid contamination. The defense said, swing an axe 15 or 20 times and you're covered. The Jeep torn down bolt by bolt held not a molecule. Kule. No blood because he didn't do it. Wow. Now, the burglaries, the state says a documented pattern of staged break-ins and eBay sales, the same playbook as the murder night. The defense said even a staged burglary linked to Chris has no direct link to the homicide, even though he's done this before. As a matter of fact, the defense has alternate suspects. Oh, is that right? We have fucking options for you. Theory one is the mafia did this. So yeah, the mafia.

By the way, the porco's are telling me. Of course. Clearly. They usually do hits with giant fucking axes. Yeah, that's how it works. And just leave people. They don't make sure anybody's dead either. They just, whatever.

Well, they said Peter allegedly had a relative named Frank the fireman Porco, who's a reputed Bonano family captain who got a suspiciously short 24 months. on a conspiracy to commit murder conviction, which the defense attorney argued smelled like a cooperation deal and a snitch's family is a target. So their thing is, this guy cooperated, he's a snitch.

So Peter and Joan were attacked because his relatives a snitch. Because the fireman got a short sentence. Yeah, that's it. And the fireman's axe left on the bed. He's the fireman, Porco. Yeah. That was like they said that was the horse head in the bed is what they said.

That's how you know. Yeah. What it was for. Yeah. That's how it was. A theory he tried to bolster this guy by moving into evidence, a newspaper story about a councilwoman who'd found a severed horse's head in her pool. Okay. Another alternate suspect is an angry litigant.

I may even have one in mind. They even have an angry litigant in mind. Yes. Peter and. Judge Cardona had years earlier in family court worked a custody case who's losing party allegedly threatened to, quote, yikes, okay. Well, a couple of fun words here. To quote, get those two guineas and that fat kike.

That's what they fucking said. Who said that where that could be documented? Apparently they said it out loud to people all the time. That was what they kept saying. Jesus Christ. Interesting. At least they didn't call the guinea's fat. That's normal.

That's usually how it goes. So I think we got off easy on that one. My family law situation was pretty contentious. I've never resorted to racial slurs. I wouldn't even think of that in that scenario. I'd be like, that was the last thing you'd be thinking of. This was a threat that was. actually credible because they pulled Christopher, he was evacuated from elementary school over it.

So they were actually taking that seriously. Another theory is a stranger in the driveway. Joan told more than one person that weeks before the attack, a stranger had walked up her driveway and fled when the motion light came on. And then Jonathan, under oath, confirmed that his mother had told him about that as well. Now, to all of these, the prosecutor's answer was, we checked. The leads went nowhere. This was a methodical investigation. That leads to nothing.

So in the opening statements, the prosecutor builds this big thing here. Yellow Jeep told all the shit we went over here. The consistent post-murder story of I slept on the couch in the dorm only to have his own frat brothers say that's horseshit. The state said, we marched everybody who was in that lounge that night. And they all said, Porco wasn't there. He walks through the incredible horror that he calls it, the morning routine of the dying father, the fucking autopilot person, the forged loans, the mad emails over a million dollars in the state and life insurance. They called it a house of cards collapsing in the exact week Peter died. The hallway was ending.

His thesis on the alarm code became this. They said using the master code was like dropping the wallet at the crime scene. He said it's not a rush to judgment. It's a case built on a dying woman's nod. And I said it's not even that. It's based on the investigation that went on for a year to confirm that Joan was right. So they didn't arrest him for a year. The defense here is very interesting here.

They said the defense right away said that was without a doubt one of the most riveting opening statements I've heard in all my life about the prosecution statement. Yeah. He said that, yeah. And he said it. He admits he stole shit from his mom and he stole shit and put it on eBay. He said, Chris's life was a mess, but those two things don't go together. The defense also turned the car's visibility into an argument for innocence. Quote, if I was wearing a white wedding dress right now and a pair of pink sneakers out here,

I would basically be the human equivalent of Christopher's Jeep. Yeah. Okay. He said, you do not commit a secret 460-mile round-trip axe murder. in the most conspicuous vehicle that has ever touched asphalt with fucking rubber. It's just, he said, you don't hide it a Jeep like this. Nobody said he's good at it. We're just saying he did it.

He said when police seized it, drove it back to Albany on a flatbed and took it apart, bolt by bolt at the blab. They found Wendy's rappers crushed up cups from a fast food restaurant. This is the defense. Said college kid junk, blood, not a molecule, nothing. Okay. Also the nod. They said the conversation, as far as from the conversation as you can get and still be alive,

and he said the room was dark, blackout shades, all this shit. Joan was asleep when the axe came down through her face and had no opportunity to observe her assailant. They also mocked the absence of any mental status exam, recalling his own head injury and standard questions of what country are you in, who's the president, what year is it, and that nobody thought to ask this woman with her brain exposed any of those questions. And they also said that she could have just simply have been responding to the name Christopher, because that's her son, and she knows who that is. They don't know. The only forensic trace of Chris at the scene, the prosecution admitted, was a single fingerprint on the outside of the basement door where the dog had been shut in.

A door the family said was never shut on the dog. So he also put the dog away as well. To build a character case, the police fanned out across the University of Rochester and interviewed 276 students using questionnaires. The defense called a hoot. A hoot. A hoot. That was a real hoot. Yeah.

They searched forums in vain for a single question like, did Chris Porco ever do you a favor and found only prompts fishing for the bad? Was he mean? Did he lie? Did he push people around? None of nothing good. He said this whole year-long effort was just a thesis of confirmation bias delivered at full volume. He said, if police found a fact that fit their theory, they fell in love with it. They encased it in concrete and they brought it back to Albany and made it a brick in their case. If a fact didn't fit, they gave it the old sidewords kick. Get out of here. And then they talked about the mob and the firemen's act and all that. And they said, the state. States theory was a bizarre, grotesque fairy tale that the Grim brothers, if they were smoking crack, couldn't think up. That's a visual for you. The Grim Brothers just fucking sucking the glass dick. Sucking the glass dick, the Grim brothers. Things have gone bad for them, really wrong. The Brothers Grimm creates some really wild shit.

Put them on crack and they still couldn't figure this out. They got all their crack from ASOP, too, which is another problem. I mean, people are nuts. Witnesses, the veterinarian employer, said he trained Chris to avoid contamination there. Jonathan, there's also a Christ Almighty hours long interrogation of Jonathan as well that I didn't get into.

I mean, I got into it, but I didn't put it in here. But I read shitloads of it for nothing. So, fuck. He described the layout of the house, the alarm, the axe, the wills, the family, all in a flat, careful, military monotone. He said he laid it all down. The master code was 4-416.

The axe with the red head and wouldn't handle and the wills, testifying that he knew if both parents died, he and Chris were the beneficiaries. When they asked him to describe his current relationship with his brother, he said, quote, it's been strained recently. It's weird. You know, since he tried to axe murder my parents.

It's been up in the air. Joan is there every day. During a break in proceedings, Joan comforts young Chris at his birthday party that they have for him in whatever little room they have there. The defense's case, since we've laid out the prosecutions, the defense neurologist who was actually treating Joan, said following a simple command, she testified she doesn't require memory and lives in a different part of the brain than the function that lets you understand and answer a question about who. who hurt you. She said there was no real verification that she could use yes and no correctly because after a brain injury, many people use them incorrectly or have a bias toward one or the other because their brain isn't working. All bets are off. Your brain has a fucking axe through it. Yep. DNA expert said we cannot say for sure that the DNA on that ticket is Mr.

Porcos. Joan testifies. Oh boy. Joan gets up there. This is scarred whispering. one eye gone. She told jurors, it's from a newspaper. She had no memory of the attack and no memory of accusing anyone and that her son was a kind, loving, compassionate person who reminded her of her son Peter. She said,

I know my son, I know he could not have committed these acts. Her husband, Peter? Her husband, what would I say? Yeah. Her son Peter? I meant husband. Yeah. Yeah. Her husband Peter. So she's saying Chris is as gentle as Pete is. He's a great guy. Yep, he's gentle Chris.

So we're going to start calling him from now on. The verdict comes in and he is found guilty of second degree murder and second degree attempted murder. Now, the verdict came back so fast. The jury was out for a very short amount of time. Yeah. When they said they leave and they go, okay, we'll see everybody tomorrow or in a few hours. So Joan wasn't even there to hear it. She wasn't in the room yet because it happened too fast.

Chris said, will you please be the one to tell my mother? he tells his lawyer. Jurors made a point they actually wrote a note for Joan to tell them that her nod played no part in the verdict because they felt bad for her that she would feel guilty that her nod put her son there. So they said, we believe that she didn't know what she was nodding to.

We threw that out. We could dismiss it completely. We don't care what she was nodding at. He drove to fucking, to your house. Maybe get a less conspicuous car, dummy. Just a thought, you know? Mitigating evidence. Here comes sentencing.

There's a lot of aggravating shit for some mitigating stuff here. Joan asked the judge for concurrent sentences, not consecutive sentences, so maybe she might live to see her son be free. Okay. The judge says, I fear very much what happened in the early morning hours of November 15th is something that could happen again. You, sir, may fuck off. 25 years to life on each count consecutive, 50 years minimum before parole. He'd be parole eligible in December of 2052 at 69 years old. Oh, shit.

That's when he would have it. That's brutal. Yeah. After his conviction, he insisted in an interview that his father's true killers were still out there. He said at this point, I have very little confidence that they will ever be caught. Well, no. Well, then why haven't they? done it again.

Why has nobody else been axed to bet? Yeah. Yeah. 2006, there's a 48 hours episode here, which is in there. He actually said, if I wanted to sneak home on the throughway, why would I take a big yellow car? Yeah, stupid. That's what we're wondering. Yes.

Why did you do that, Chris? Fuck. 2009 Forensic Files episode. He appeals the appellate division, third department in the New York Court of Appeals, rejects his direct appeals. They also reject his 2011 confirmation clause fight over Jones Nod. The U.S. Supreme Court twice declined to hear the case. 2013, we'll do this very quickly. There is a lifetime movie based on this that he sues lifetime over.

This is very interesting. Well, anyway, by the way, it stars Lolita David. and the guy who played, I'm Will and Grace, the fucking brown-haired guy. Will? Eric McCormick, yeah. Will.

Yeah, Will. It's got Will and Lolita Dividovich in this movie. It's called Romeo Killer, the Chris Porco story, which makes no sense. Why? Because he was slinging dick in college? That's, what?

The, well, the description is, a charming but devious college student is accused of killing his wealthy father and attempting to murder his mother in their home while they slept. A lot of that isn't true. And that's what it is. He sues to block it arguing it was fictionalized. He said, because newsworthiness makes it so we can say whatever we want based on the facts and put this out because it's newsworthy.

We can put his picture up from a newspaper on our site. We can do shit like that. But if we made it up, we can't do that. Yeah. We threw some extra details in there like his brother molested him for 12 years. And we knew it was wrong. And we knew it was wrong and it wasn't like published somewhere where we could be accidentally think it was right. Yeah, yeah.

So he sued as far as I know. No, we know of no dittling in the household. He sued lifetime to seek the block of the broadcast under New York Civil Rights Law Section 51, which is the privacy law. Section 51 functions as a right of publicity law that bars the use of a living person's name, portrait, or picture for advertising purposes or the purpose of trade. Porco alleges that the docudrama violated his rights under Section 51 because it uses his name without permission and is not protected by the newsworthiness defense as understood under New York case law because the film is substantially fictionalized. So they tried to make it about him, but also too far. He moved for a temporary restraining order, which was granted by the court. By the way, the newspapers are all like, fuck this bullshit.

This is crazy that you're doing this. You have to let Lifetime do this. And they eventually do. They went back and forth. It aired in 2013, but he kept suing. It was reversed, and the trial court granted Lifetime's motion to dismiss the case in 2017. There's another reversal holding that Porco's complaint did state a claim for violation to the statutory right to privacy. Then the New York Appellate Court reverses the dismissal action against Lifetime.

It's crazy. It goes back and forth for years. on remand to the trial court, both sides moved for a summary judgment. In May 2020, years. Seven years later. The court denied the party's cross motions for summary judgment, holding that the issue of whether the docu drama was materially and substantially fictitious must go to a jury. So it keeps going and keeps going and keeps going. 2016, his defense attorney retired after winning an acquittal in his final case here.

That's Clinton, or Klinglin, Kindlin, sorry. Okay, hold on to that for a second. 2016, Joan loses a pension case against the state of New York teacher's pension thing. I don't know how the fuck that works, but it's very interesting.

2019, she joins his lawsuit against Lifetime, putting her hat in the ring too. 2020, she signs a sworn affidavit supporting Chris's latest bid to overturn his conviction, writing that she is certain that a gross miscarriage of justice has occurred. January, 2023, a Long Island law firm, Barkett, Epstein, Kieran, Aldea, and Lo Terco. They apparently filed a motion to vacate the conviction, alleging ineffective assistance by Kinlan and Shanks, suppressed evidence and above all an impossible timeline, they say the

trial defense never broke down. Okay. They said, could anyone drive from Rochester in the dead of night, commit a bloodbath, clean up, buy gas unseen, and be back on campus by 8.30 a.m. Okay. So, Kynelan and Shanks, his original attorney, say they dispute any assertion that we did not give him a full and vigorous defense. And they're known as really good, really thorough, really, really, you know, top-tier lawyers in the area. So they also say that a detective with the Bethlehem Police Department had a prior relationship because of the daughter thing and they alleged as detective didn't like Porco, therefore shouldn't have been allowed to work the case. They also say there's no fingerprints on the axe, no blood in the Jeep, and Joan recanted her nod.

Okay. They cite a pathologist who looked at the evidence and determined that Peter could not have died when police said he did, undermining the prosecution's case. and Porco's team said police were aware of a potential alibi witness that would have placed Chris on campus in Rochester at the exact time that police say he was driving down the throughway to commit the murder. They further allege this information was deliberately buried in a mountain of paperwork so Porco's lawyers would miss it. That's not how it works. He also does an interview. He was very careful and read every fucking word. Yeah.

He does an interview from prison with John Gray. and he said, I didn't commit this. I had nothing to do with it. I've said that from day one. He says his mom is the toughest person you'll ever meet. We speak every day. She has borne the brunt of all this without a doubt. So we've got to through this together, really.

We're the support system for each other, but she's endured much more than I ever will. He said, it bothers me that people think I'm a killer. I have focused, I have to stay focused and prove my innocence. He gets a new lawyer. involved. Then in November 2024, the Albany County District Attorney

retires and a new one comes in. Lee Kindlin, his lawyer's son. His lawyer who he's saying is ineffective. His son is now the guy who's going to oversee all this. So this is a conflict of interest. So a special prosecutor of the

Schenectady DA's office is assigned to argue vacating a conviction because the current DA's own father tried to, it's a mess. So that's what's going on. What the fuck? So it's still going on. The appeals are still happening.

Wow. Shit's happening. Peter is buried at St. Agnes Cemetery in Menanz, New York, which is in Albany County. And Chris is in fucking Clinton right now. Dan Amora is where he is, which is a horrible, horrible old shithole, awful. He's having a bad time in there. Let me tell you something.

That's not partying at college in a yellow jester. Gee, no, no. That's tough living. Do. His number is 06A6686 in custody, in Clinton, and there he is. By the way, the source that psychological thing we were reading from was case study, the flawed interview of a psychopathic killer, what went wrong, Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling.

And it's by Perry and then Frank S. 2011. that's the source. So there you go, everybody. That's Del Mar, New York. That is Albany region there. If not him, who? You know, it makes all the sense in the world. It's, he did it. In my opinion. I mean, that's just me. It looks like he did. I think we have to say that, right? No, no, he's convicted of it. I don't mean for legal reasons. I mean just, I think he did it. It really did. I don't see who the fuck else would have a reason. Come on. Yeah, I probably, I'd probably, I I bet at least one ball on it, put it that way.

Maybe not my balls. If a neighbor saw a yellow jeep, that's it. It's over for you. It's over. And everyone saw the yellow jeep. Going to the place you weren't supposed to be going. I don't care that they didn't find any blood in it. That just means you're even more cold-blooded.

That's more calculated. That's more fucked up. Yeah, he's not. It means you showered in your mom's house. He's not stupid. Right. Yeah, he's not fucking stupid. He might have hosed off in the backyard for all we know.

We have no fucking idea. So anyway, there is Delmar, New York. Hope you enjoyed that. If you did enjoy it, get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. It helps so much. We don't know why. But it does.

It helps a lot. Netflix, those thumbs up mean the world. So thank you. Thank you for being on our side here and hanging out with us on Netflix. We really do appreciate that too. And all the audio listeners, you know, just on Libson and everything else. Thank you for what you do, whatever app you listen on. Thank you, everybody, for hanging with us here.

Definitely head over to shut up and give me. Murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. Come out and see a live show. They are... They're coming up so fast. They're coming up so fast. September 18th, Milwaukee, the Paps Theater. There might be a few tickets left for that because we released all our comps and holds and shit. So check for those. State Theater, Minneapolis on the September 19th, the very next night, Saturday night.

That's going to be great. Dallas, December 3rd, San Jose, October 16th. Sacramento, October 17th. Terrytown, November 13th, which is almost sold out. just about there. So get those now if you want them. And then Boston on the 14th of November, actually Medford right outside there. And a beautiful theater, great place with not a lot, way less traffic. So you're going to love it.

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As soon as you subscribe, you're going to get access to almost 400 back bonus episodes. You've never heard before. Then you get new ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small time murder. You get it all. This week for crime and sports,

there's a guy named Long. Lawnchair Larry. And that's because he tried to make an aerial device out of a lawn chair. And you can imagine how that worked out. But the saga of it is fucking hilarious and we'll get all into it. That's sort of a sport, right? And then Small Town Murder, Donner Party Part 2. Let the eating commence.

The buffet is open, everyone. It's going to happen. Season it up. Woof, we will get into all of that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. In addition to all of that, which is enough anyway, we also give you all of our shows, everything, crime and sports, your stupid opinions, both small town murders all add free as well. Holy shit. And then add free.

And then on top of that, you also get a shout out, which is going to happen right now. Jimmy! Hit me with the names of the people who would never, ever drive jacked up bright yellow jeeps and try to murder us in them. Jimmy, hit me with them right fucking now. Does the executive producers are Gary Howard and learn? In Turkey, Texas. Oh, boy, Gary Gar. Oh, boy.

Happy Hour in plain dealing Louisiana. I think that's a draw, fellas. Yeah, you guys. I don't know who wins this week. Those both sound god-awful. Elena Zemmel. Elena. Can't wait to see you this coming week.

Penny Boyce, Rabaz vlogs. Robaz, Robes, blogs. Vlogs, James. I don't know. Britt Emanuel also. Thank you all so much for everything you do. Super Matt. Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, AI, no name at all.

Nicole J. Crystal Dawson, Rachel James, Laura. Larry. That's Larry, not Lori. Larry Turner. Chelsea. Larry's such a guy named too. It's like such a Larry. It sounds like a hairy man. Chelsea Nye, Bill's daughter, I think. Adriana, Shaw, Adriana perhaps. Stephanie would no last name. Amber Smith. Kelly Johnston, Niancy? What did I? No, that's just Nancy. No last name. Celeste Sunbot.

Andrea Knop. Tracy would know the last name. Page would no last name. Terry Ann, Daisy Bowman Val. Val. Valle. Taylor Perkins. Matt Heritage.

Susan Ollman. Faith Astley. Eric Duzell. Brooke Rice. J. Mack. Lucky Lee. Alyssa Kilmurray. Michael F.

Kylie Preeheim. Nisi would know last name. Mateo, Matthew, Peralt. Is that Matthio? It's spelled like that Honeybadger guy. Yeah, yeah. How did they pronounce that guy's name?

Mateo? Vanessa Bush, Stephanie Pearson, Lexi Kling, Matthew, Matthew, yeah. They did say Matthew, didn't they? I don't know. I mean, you could make it, Matthew.

Yeah, sure. Wanted to craft it that way. Yeah. It could be Matthew. Lexi King. no last name. Dan Sharuke, Michelle Hogue, Tanya Roll, Jelly's daughter, I don't know.

Kim Howard, Aaron Hunt, Jody Pitesmire, NWC, Morgan, not doing it, Morgan Harris, Alyssa Paramo, Jacqueline Brothers, Kristen Mamorello, the Italian boobs, the Mamorellos, Patricia Browning, Carlo would know less name. Patrick would no last name. Space Cowboy Lux.

Alyssa would no last name. Brian Bargiale. Casey Pryor. Kimberly Clupex. Jay 4th. J. V.I. James. That's a, oh, sixth. Six. The sixth J. So like, instead of Johnny 5, they're Johnny 6. Johnny 6. Johnny 6 we found. Elizabeth with no last name. Jennifer Husson. Wendy Reinhardt, Aidan Johnson, Katie Strayka, Rob O'Neillio, Missy Harness, Olivia Carter, and Caroline the Q, James. That's a new pirate. Yeah, watch out.

Cheryl Wenbin, Anthony Thievaux, Thievino, Anthony, Anthony. Steve Edward, Cindy Hoss. Melanie Varga, Sugar Magnolia, Rachel Postone, Poston, Poston, Poston, Tasha, and Brian Brown. Oh my God, I'm Stoned. I know that feeling. Terry would know last name. Dye would know last name. Shanna A. Skyler Duclost.

Did I say that already? I don't remember. Jonas. Jonas Bernie von Lundstynsted. Jonas Bernie von Lundsted. I don't know. Burnt. Oh, that's burnt.

Not Bernie. That's a D and a T. That's what that is. Rowan James, Rowan, Amber Fisher, Kara Cameron, Brandon Collard, Cody would know the last name, Larney Hennessy, Angie Pennington, Stephanie Johnson, Don Hegelson, Helgeson, Miller, Sarah, oh boy, N-I-G-B-O-R. What is that, James? Not going to do it. No. You're not going to bait me.

Brian would know last name. Neboar. I can isolate that shit. Chris 77, Lori Sasse, Jerry Fletcher, Kiki would know last name. Todd Phillips, good for you, taking a break from directing the 97th Hangover. Therese Carr Charbonneau, Ginger Schwab, Kierza, Kira Lepensky, Shannon, Shinnin, Shinnin, Stutter, Stewart, Matt Aguilar, Aguilera, Mike and, oh, Mike from Dufin, Dauphin, where's Dauphin? D-A-U-P-H-I-N, that's overseas, right? Europe.

I'm guessing. C-K. Good for you, Louie. Simon Chamberlain, Chamberlain, G-Nea would know last name. Andrea Massey, Susan Suzanne Pennelli. Tanya would know last name. Lexi Trammell.

Oh, look at that. Alan's good. Alan, that's it. Amanda would know last name. Trina C., Rebecca Seeger, Bob's Kid. Amanda Barker, Travis's kid. Heather would know last name. Ty Saylor

You go Travis before Bob? What is it? You go Travis before Bob on Barker? I did. Wow. He said Bob Seeger Bob and then he said Travis. Bob it up, man. Double Bobbs.

He's now dead, right? We didn't kill him again. Bob Barker, no, he is dead, I believe. Yeah, he is dead. Nicole Schmelser and all of our patrons. You guys are the best. What did you say? I said Travis Barker might as well be, but he's still alive.

He died several deaths. Oh, yeah, yeah. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you again. You fucking wonderful. Marvelous. Fantastic bastards.

Thank you. We're just, thank you for all that you do for us. Thanks for everything all the time. Thanks for hanging. Thanks for telling your friends. Thanks for posting. Thanks for being there with us. Because this would be weird if we did this alone and no one listened.

So bizarre. So thank you for doing all of that. You want to follow us on social media or find out anything about anything. Shut up and Give Me Murder is the place to do that.com, obviously. But shut up and give me murder.com is where you do that. So keep doing that. Keep coming back week after week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye.