Small Town Murder - The Orange Sock Murders Breckenridge Colorado

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

This week, in Breckenridge, Colorado, a twisted story begins with 2 young women, disappearing, on a cold, snowy night. On the sam e night, a man is miraculously rescued from a snowy mountain pass, when a passing airliner sees his headlights, down below. Police initially blame one of the women's husband, since everything he did looked suspicious, but eventually a lone orange sock found near a body, links both murders, and helps to reveal the true killer!!   Along the way, we find out that 13 pound gold nuggets exist, that just because a man tells you where a body may be, and when it will be found, doesn't mean he's the murderer, and that you should never throw out any garbage. Ever!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!!   Donate at patreon.com/crimeinsports or at paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay, cho choo. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petro Gallo. I'm my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely wild.

And this is crazy, wild edition of Small Town Murder Express all aboard the murder train pulling away from the station. We got a lot of wild today. It is a case that we know. A case that we normally don't, I won't even get into it. I'll just say the case. I'll just, we'll just state it when it's time. First of all, though, head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows.

There's a few left in San Diego we just released. And there's also Seattle, Philly, and D.C., get your tickets now because they're going fast. And, I mean, DC and Philly are in December and they're close to sold out. So get in there, get your tickets right now. Thank you so much for doing that. Shut up and give me murder. You also definitely want to listen to our other two shows, crime in sports,

which, by the way, is we are doing a long series on Randall Woodfield, the I-5 killer. No sports, all murder. So check that out. If you like small-town murder, you love that. And also your stupid opinions where we make fun of people who think their opinions matter about things, which is very fun to do. We'll do that. Oh, it's a huge party. But get yourself, Patreon, everybody.

Trust us on this. Patreon.com. crime in sports, just like the name of that other show you should be listening to. And what you're going to get there, anybody, $5 a month or above, you're going to get, first of all, a huge catalog of back episodes. Over 300 back episodes you're going to get immediately upon subscription of bonus stuff you've never heard before. And you're going to get new ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small-time murder.

You get it all. This week for crime and sports, we're going to do some updates. BJ Penn has been doing some wild stuff lately. We're going to talk about him. Javanta Davis also who's been off the fucking charts lately too. And then for Small Town Murder, we are going to talk about this Amy Bradley case missing off the cruise ship. And they thought they didn't know if she drowned, but then there's evidence that she's actually alive still 27 years later. It's absolutely crazy.

And I've been looking into it so much because it's just so interesting. So we'll check all that out. It piggybacks on the poop crews. Okay. If you say poop crews, what could go worse? This. Well, this is it. This is worse.

So that's patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of this show as well. That said, I think it's time to sit back, everybody. What do you say? Let's all clear the lungs here. Let's all shout. Shut up. Give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? We're going to someplace we both like. You really like. Sure. Going to Colorado this week. It's a lovely place.

We're going to Breckenridge, Colorado. Hell yeah. Yeah, nice place, kind of a ski town. Yeah. North Central Colorado, about an hour and a half to Denver. Yeah, nestled in those Rockies. Two hours to Longmont, Colorado, which was our last Colorado episode, Electronic Murder Breadcrumbs, which was very interesting. I remember those are really interesting one.

This is in Summit County, aptly named, a lot of summits there. Area code 970. Population here 5,086. And I assume that also depends on the season because in the winter there's a shitload more people here skiing. That's probably in August. Yeah, I think that's your permanent residency that lives here. Median household income here pretty high. It's usually about 69,000 in the rest of the country.

Here it is $118,077. That's what you get with a lot of hot cocoa. Costs a couple of bucks to live up in those mountains. Median home cost here. Buckle up here. Holy shit. $1,66,800. That's median home cost.

Yeah. Everything from O'Rey to Breckenridge to Alpson. All that shit is banana. And it's been like that for 50 years, literally. It's gotten way worse. Hunter Thompson, it was there when it was first starting. And before it started, he moved up there. And I remember him writing about it tons about the,

he'd call it the rape of. Aspen always, like them selling off land for condos and, you know, breaking up estates and all that kind of thing. The motto here is the perfect mountain town. That's what they say. I mean, it sounds like it. Founded in 1859, gold was discovered there. And in the 1800s, anywhere gold is discovered, that's going to be a place pretty soon.

1887, a 13 and a half pound gold nugget was discovered here. 13 and a half pounds. That's a big one. One nugget. So that's a chunk. That's a bar, right? Absolutely. 1898, Pug Ryan, now that's a great criminal name.

He's got a gang. Pug Ryan gang sounds awesome. Pug Ryan and his gang held up Breckenridge's Denver Hotel, which was a big, that was a big, fancy hotel. That was a big deal. And that same year, 1898, 1898, it snowed in Breckenridge for 79 straight days. God. At some point in every day.

day and for 79 days it snowed. 79 days straight. Holy shit. How many shoveling heart attacks there? Two months and some change. It forced the townspeople to build snow tunnels to get around town. They just said, well, fuck it. We live under the snow now.

And they just started, I got to go to the bank. I got to go to the bank. I mean, I'm going to dig my way there. It's all I can do. I need an apple. And then 1963, the first, oh God, how do you say this now? Uler Dag Festival celebrated in Breck and Breck and, Ridge. Now it's known as Uler Fest, or Oler Fest, well, Uler, I think. We'll talk about that.

Don't worry. Reviews of this town, five stars. Breckenridge is a town in the Rocky Mountains that offers an array of outdoor activities. Activities include skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, fishing, and hiking. Everyone you meet is friendly. Yeah, they're all rich. Of course, they're friendly. They got nothing to be mad about it. How you doing, fellow well-off person with less worries than most? How are you today? Two stars here. I enjoyed the natural environment and the ability to participate in fun activities like snowboarding and hiking. This review is off the charts by though. It's crazy. This is like something we do for your

stupid opinions. It was nice to grow up in a mountain, however. I think you mean on a mountain. You grew up in a mountain. You're a mole person. Again, like the other people. That's strange. The community, uh, let's, oh yeah, the town. However, I found people, I found the people to be derivative. What is that word mean? It's something you would say about music or like something like an art piece that's, you know, just kind of piggybacking on something else. Not a town.

Not human beings. How are human beings derivative? Every human being's derivative of every other human being. I found them to be derivative of their parents. It's really weird. They even look like them. There is a large demographic of first time locals who look for nothing more than to enjoy legal marijuana and be ski bums.

Yeah, that sounds terrific. Of course. That sounds awesome. I would love to live that life. How much more time do we have doing the show? That sounds great. I'm 44 years old. I don't know if I got enough time to do that.

We're doing that. God damn, somebody got to do that. It's also difficult to fit in and be accepted if you're not into competitive sports and sports culture. As an artist, the people are off-putting and ignore my accomplishments. They ignore my accomplishments. Who the fuck are you? I got a painting in New York Magazine.

Wow. They ignore my accomplishments. You derivative fucks. Compared to athletes who are revered and given everything under the sun. The derivative thing, that's what art people would say, but not of humans, of art pieces you say that of. Things to do, it is the Uler Fest is what there is to do. What they do here, they crown a. king and queen of the Uler Fest.

There's a long story. This is named after like some Norse snow god or some shit like that. Okay. That's what this whole thing is about. It's about some snow celebration. Two Breckenridge residents are chosen as the Uler, King, and Queen for their contributions to the community and their love of the snow. Not only have to do like good things, you have to love the goddamn snow, too. Yeah. Snow is very important.

That's weird. 3.30 p.m. They're going to do the world's longest shot ski. Oh, do you know what that is? That's where they take a ski. I don't. Put shots on it. That's when Polish people do shots.

Yeah. We're doing shot skis, everybody. You put a bunch of shot glasses on a ski and everybody, people line up in front of the shot, and then you tip the ski and everybody shoots at the same time. Oh, well, they're looking. That's a shot ski. They're looking for 1,401 people to help break the current world record of 1300. 1885 people currently held by Park City, Utah.

How big is that fucking ski? I can't know. I hope we're talking about the same thing. I'm not sure. It's got to be. Then they have a parade also and, you know, that's it. It takes over Main Street. So basically a king and queen and shotsky.

And a shot ski. That's what the festival is. That said, let's talk about some murder. Holy shit. Let's get into a weird story. Okay. January 6th, 1982. Okay.

It is a, shockingly, a snowy night in Breckenridge. Right. Are we all surprised? I mean, below zero temperatures, driving snow, a real cold. It's January snow. Yeah, none of this March bullshit where it's, you know, 31 and snowing. This is... Not as April 12th bullshit.

No. This is when it's windy and it hits your face and you go, ow. It hurts because it feels like you're getting sandblasted. Right. 7.50 p.m. let's start out with on this evening. Snowy, dark, windy, freezing. Barbara Burns, Oberholzer. Her married name is Oberholzer. Her maiden name is Burns. She's born Christmas Day, 1952, making her 29 years old at this point. Just celebrated her. No, she just celebrated. Oh, just turned 29. She goes by Bobby Joe. That's what everybody calls her. Sure. So Bobby Joe somehow from Barbara Burns, you get Bobby Joe. Well, it's only better than BJ.

That's not bad. She's married to a man named Jeff Oberholzer, and they have a daughter as well. Now, her and Jeff, they had dated for a few years, got married in 1977. They lived in the Midwest and then moved to Breckenridge. Wow, they do fantastic. They're hippies. Because when they got married, it was 1977. They're super hippies.

They both described themselves as. hippies there. So they loved the outdoor and the nature and they heard about all the granola crunching opportunities there is to have out there. So they go there. They live in Alma, which is about a half hour south of Breckenridge.

At one point he said, this is Jeff, said, yeah, just seem like the place to be, you know, us hippies. Let's go there. Now, Bobby Joe's sister describes her as free-spirited saying she loved life. She was happy wherever

she was. A hippie. Yeah, sounds easy going. Jeff, in great hippie fashion, and following all the hippie tradition, opened an appliance repair business, like all hippies. It's what most of them do. They'll fix your fridge. Being very responsible. Yeah, they know how to change out your frie on. That's a hippie trait. It's always a thing. But he did it in sandals, James. Well, that's the only different sandals and flannel. Bobby Joe worked for a real estate company, which again, nothing says hippie. you know, morals like real estate. Now, but they are super hippies. I mean, you got to work and they have a daughter.

You got to make a living. And the weird thing is they're real kind of everybody's nice and everybody's a good person. She hitchhikes all the time. A lot of people in this town are still hitchhiking in 1982, which, yeah, she would hitch a ride to work even. I mean, that's like not even, that's somewhere you know you have to be. So on this particular night of January the 6th, 1982, she had gotten a promotion that day at work. So she went to the village pub with a bunch of coworkers because they wanted to buy her a drink for celebrate her promotion. So she called her husband, Jeff, and said, I got a promotion.

You know, the girls want to take me out tonight. We're going to the village pub and he said, yeah, have fun. See you later. So that's how it went. So she's super happy, has a nice night. she, when she's leaving, she tells the bartender she's going to get it. She's going to hitchhike home. So see you later.

I'm going to go hitch a ride home, which is about 16 miles away from the bar, which is a long way to hitchhike. That's a haul. You might need two rides in that mess. Yeah, unless it's a straight shot down one road, unless someone's going. Most people are not going to. No, unless they're going to that town and a night like this, they're not going to go out of the way for you. Yeah. So she's going to do that.

She's going to hitchhike. Now, she keeps, Jeff had given her something for protection. It's a big brass clip, like a round one that you would, you know. Like a carabiner? Yeah, kind of like that, but more round, not less kind of squared off. So gave her that, it's got a large brass ring attached to it as well. So she can hold it on her fist. Oh, you put your hand through it.

Yeah, and you can use it as defense. You can do damage. So Jeff gave it to her specifically. use this when you're hitchhiking and make sure to have this in your pocket. And if anybody tries to do anything, you fucking jack them up. That's it. That's it. So Jeff described it as it was a large brass clip, very heavy with a large brass ring attached to it.

And it was made for self-defense. So she leaves the bar, gets her hat and coat and gloves and backpack and trudges out into the storm. None of her coworkers would give her ride home. She'd celebrate her big night. You know what? She got a promotion today. I'll give you a ride down the road. but no, she goes out there.

So she goes out into the snow to hitchhike. Now, earlier that evening, let's rewind in time to 4.45 p.m. that day. So still getting dark and still very snowy. And there's another young lady named Annette K. Schney, S-C-H-N-E, Schney. Annette is born in January 16th, 1960, so she's only 21 at this point, 10 days away from her 22nd birthday. She's from Sioux City, Iowa originally. Midwest coming strong over here.

No kidding. She has two brothers and two sisters. She graduated from East High School in Sioux City in 1978, where she was a member of the drill team. She was doing all that stuff. She graduated from Patricia Stevens College in Omaha, which she had, I think that's a modeling school, by the way. Really?

Yeah, because she had gone to modeling school, and she's only 21, so I don't know how she would have time to go to college and modeling school. But she's really pretty, this girl, like, extremely, like stunningly nice, beautiful. Yeah. Really beautiful, like, blonde and, like, that kind of model look of like, oh, Jesus, you look, you don't look like a real human, like, very pretty. 82 hot. Yeah, feathered hair and all that shit. Yeah.

So she moved there. Now, that night, she had just picked up some medication at a pharmacy. see. Okay. She had a prescription she needed and I don't know if that's birth control pills or, you know, antihistamines or I have no idea what she got. But she then needed to get home to change into her cocktail waitress outfit to start her shift at the flip side bar at 8 p.m. It's 4.45. She's got to get home change and get to work. Yeah. Now she usually. See on the flip side. See on the flip side. Yep. Or at the flip side here. Now she had worked that day also. She has two jobs. She works as a maid at the Holiday Inn, which where all models work usually. Yeah, well, you're modeling for one person at a time. So she hitchhikes from her day job at the Holiday Inn and usually hitchhikes home to change her clothes and then hitchhikes back to the bar.

Wow. Then hitchhikes over to the bar for her evening shift. That's how she lives her life here. Yeah. So at this day, though, she's right near the pharmacy trying to hitchhike. to get home to change to go back. Okay. Okay.

Now, so she goes out, leaves a pharmacy, goes out to hitchhike. Now, midnight, we'll fast forward to. Bobby Joe still hasn't made it home at by midnight. No? No, which is not okay at all. No, because it's been about... It's not that far. No, it's...

I guess if you didn't get a ride and you're walking through a snowstorm, you might not be home until 6 a.m. I don't think it's possible to walk through the snowstorm and make it alive. You might be right. It's because it's literally below zero. temperatures out there with wind and shit. I don't think she could have made it. I honestly don't.

So she hasn't made it home. And, you know, Jeff's worried that he says at home. And, you know, but the thing is, too, people could have crashed in the, there's so many things that could happen. If she did get a ride, who's to say they made it? Right. They're driving through. Variables in that situation.

Yeah. They're driving through the snowy mountains. Anything could happen. So Jeff said he fell asleep watching TV. And he woke up around midday. night and noticed that Bobby Joe still wasn't home. And he said he thought something was really wrong at that point. He got worried here.

So he ended up going to one of the homes of Bobby Joe's friends that he knew was out celebrating with her that night. Yeah. And he said, I woke him up and I asked him, you know, where Bobby was. And if they knew and she said she didn't know. So, yeah, he said that at that point he went out looking for her. just driving the road between there and the bar to see if she was trudging along the side of the road or, you know, in a ditch with a snow pile or anything or see a car crashed out, just something here. I couldn't find her. So he then went to the Breckenridge police that night and they told him that they can't do anything for 24 hours.

There's that old trope. Well, plus they're the cops. They're thinking, you don't know if she went home with some dude or some shit. We're not going to go look around while she's sipping hot cocoa next to a fire, you know, blowing some guy. Because the storm's too bad or whatever. It's just not going to a thing. You don't want us to walk in on that.

No. And she was an adult. She's 29 years old. So they said, you know, 24 hours. So then he said, okay. And he returned home. So that same night the ladies went missing. And this is a reason why I'm saying that it's anybody hitchhiking is in just as much danger from snow as they are from someone who picked them up.

This is the same evening now. there's a United Airlines flight from Denver to Colorado Springs. Yeah. There's a guy named Which is a stupid fucking flight. That is 60 miles.

But through the snow and shit like that. Oh, great point. Colorado, there's a lot of that shit because again, Hunter Thompson used to fly from Aspen to Denver. Really? Yes, because that's how it was. It made it there was a flight from there to there. Otherwise, it

was a long drive through the snow in the winter. Yeah. So it was a hard, it's a hard road. Yeah. Once you get west of Denver, it's fucked. It gets dicey. It's real dicey. So this is a United Airlines commercial flight, regular flight.

Wow. There's a guy named Harold E. Bray, who's a passenger aboard the flight. Yeah. So literally flying over the shit in the middle of the night. Looking out the window. He's a sheriff from Jefferson County, this bray. Oh. It just happens to be his job.

Yeah. He looks out, he's looking out the window as they're, flying over the darkness, which again, who does that? You know what I mean? What are you going to see, man? Put the fucking blinds down. Nope, he's out staring out the window. Yeah, at night, there's nothing, you're seeing a reflection of you.

There's nothing there. It's any light in there. I don't see anything you see you. It's it. But he sees down below somehow, he sees flashing lights down there. Okay. That are like flashing at the plane?

Just flashing. They're pointed up and flashing. Lights from the middle of the darkness, the middle of the mountains somewhere. And he recognizes it's a Morse code SOS signal that's flashing in the light. And the lucky. Not only does he know how to decipher us and he's looking out the window. And he knows how to do it. Yeah. If it's some just dude who didn't know shit, they'd be like, there something's going on down there and keep flying. They wouldn't even thought about it. But this guy goes, holy shit, that's an SOS figure, gets up, goes and tells the flight crew,

hey, I'm a sheriff. There's an SOS signal going on there. Call in, have the pilots call in down there and see what's going on. So the crew. crew radios the FAA, they dispatch two planes to find the exact location, two small planes. They send out into the snowstorm to find out exactly where it is. So they don't send the local fire department, you know, out all over the place. So within 15 minutes, the local fire department's on the scene. Wow. They're responding and going out there.

So one of the guys who responds is Dave Montoya. And he says, so I was down there. I had my radio with me. So I said, let me go check it out, right? He said, I'm thinking, who does that? In the middle of the mountains, you get stuck. He said, I thought it was a tourist. I thought, this crazy tourist, he got up here,

and now he's going to ask us all to save him. Great. Fucking people don't know what they're doing. So he arrives at the scene, and he recognizes the driver. He knows him. Oh. He goes, that's Alan. I know, Alan.

Alan, what the hell are you doing here? It's Alan Lee Phillips is his name, Al-A-N, by the way. And he says, I know I worked in the Henderson mine. with this guy. I know this guy. Wow. You should know better, Alan. What the fuck you're doing out here? So now, Montoya is also a minor and I guess a volunteer fireman as well.

And Alan Lee Phillips is a mechanic at the mine, at the mine, not the mind. So Alan Lee Phillips comes running up to him and says, man, I'm glad to see you, which I bet you are. Because it's below zero. You'd have died out there that night otherwise. So he said, oh God, I'm saved. I'm saved. He was like,

so overjoyed, thankful. He had a big giant gash on his eye, right over his eye. He had a big cut on it. Now, it was asked about the injury because Montoya said, what happened in your eye, dude? Jesus Christ, he looks like you're bleeding like crazy. And Alan said, well, I got drunk. That's a good start to what happened to your eye always. You know, that's going to be a good story.

Go on. Like my friend that used to start stories with, so I was AWOL from the Navy, right? I'm like, this is going to be good. Uh-oh. I know we're in for something here. Yeah. He said, well, I got drunk and I decided to come home, as one does at the end of the night sometimes. Yeah.

And I didn't want to go on the highway to get caught drunk. So I went over the pass because the cops ain't there. Yeah. So he went over a very dangerous mountain pass that's not to be crossed in the snow to try to avoid a DUI, essential. Sure. Which in the snowy conditions, if you're swerving a little, they'll probably think that you're, you know, sliding in the snow. I'll probably leave you alone.

Yeah, probably slippery, yeah. He says he hit his face on his truck when he got out originally. He slipped and smashed his face on the truck because it's so much snow. And he's drunk. And he's drunk. So Montoya is thinking, he said, I'm thinking to myself, quote, boy, you are really stupid. And he says, let me take you to the hospital here. And Phillips goes, no, no, no, no, I just want to get home.

I got to work in the morning. Shit. You know, I can't be going to the hospital. So, I mean, this is in all the newspapers because it's such an incredible rescue. Certainly, yeah. The odds of it all happening the way it happened. The SOS flashlight in the first place is nuts. Headlights, not flashlight, headlights.

With the vehicle. With the vehicle, the way the snow, he was stuck in the snow pointed up. Pointed up, yeah. So he just was flashing his headlights to whatever he saw plane. It was like, maybe, I don't know. Maybe they'll see it, yeah. Luckyest son of a bitch ever. And he's in all the newspapers, pictures of him standing there.

Hey, all, you know, happy. The guy, SOS, a United flight. That's crazy shit. So, yeah, he flagged down a United commercial flight. The old United 425 from Denver to Colorado Springs. The fuck, man. And the plane didn't even acknowledge it. A passenger did it.

That's wild. It was the middle of the night. Most of them were probably sleeping. Yeah, it's probably on autopilot. And the pilot and co-pilot are probably fucked. They passed out and jerking each other off. You know, it goes. So he said SSOS idea was desperate.

It was Guanalla Pass, Gwinala Pass, is where he was stuck on. And his rear end sunk into the snow, so his headlights were pointing up. It was almost 20 below zero. Oh my God. White out snowstorm, too. I mean, blizzard, negative 20, you're going to die out there. He said he tried walking originally to a nearby ski area, but only made it about 600 feet and turned around because it was too cold. And he said he was going to die before he got there.

So he's like, I'll get in the truck. At least I'm shielded from the wind. You know what I mean? That's all I can do. So he starts flashing his headlights, the Morse code, three short, three long, three short over and over again. Is that what it is? That's apparently what it is. And what's short?

Well, it's long, long, and then shorter than that. It's time intervals. Yeah. Time interval thing. So he said he was just hoping anybody would see. He was doing it for a while, he said. It wasn't like he saw the plane and did it a couple times. He just kept doing it hoping anybody would see it.

And he was lucky. Now, this guy seems like he's just blessed, right? I mean, luckyest son of a bitch in the world. And great that he knows that. And it's weird because he doesn't seem to deserve this kind of karma because he's had a real weird past here. In July of 1973, there was a young woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge here.

Alan picked her up. But instead of going where he was supposed to go with her, he drove her to an empty cabin, which is terrifying. That's how horror movies start. Yeah, cabin in the woods is an actual movie. Being driven to a cabin by a stranger who's holding you hostage is maybe the most terrifying thing you could do. Maybe a warehouse, a cabin or a warehouse, one or the other. Just any empty building at all.

Usually at least a warehouse, there might be other buildings around you can scream to. A cabin, you're like, oh, fuck, this is over, man. I'm in the evil dead, cabin, this is bad. Perhaps something long and hard that I can grab and fight him with. No shit. There's only one thing that's long and hard here, and I don't want to. Touch it. Yeah. And he sexually assaults her in the cabin. Oh, boy. And he later said, I saw a woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge and I stopped and gave her a ride. And after he did all this, he told her, I don't know, I don't know why I do this. He said. I don't know why I do this. He said. Which means this is a thing he does. Which is common. So he. So he. He does. So he. He says. So he. He says. So he. He says. This is common. So he. He. the woman goes to the police and he gets caught and arrested.

And he sits down with the cops and denies nothing. Tells him everything? Nothing. Yep. It said, quote, I saw a woman hitchhiking and I stopped to give her a ride over to Fairplay. And he says he, quote, stopped at an empty cabin along the road, pulled the girl from the Jeep, and then picked up a rock and used it to hit her several times. Oh, my God. When the woman asked why he was doing.

doing this, he replied, I don't know, I don't know why I do this. Wow. And then he also sexually assaulted or so, and we don't know the exact extent to that, of that, because it's 1973, and we'll find out the later on why also. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about the best night's sleep you're going to get with coop pillows. Coop's sleepgoods.com. Oh, my God.

Coop sleepgoods.com. Get yourself the best pillows you're ever going to have in your life. I don't care how you sleep, side, back, face. However you sleep, coop pillows are going to help you so much. My neck is always messed up, right? These pillows help so much because they're adjustable. You can take stuff in and put stuff out. It's so amazing.

Get it to just how you like it. And the cooling. Oh, my God, the cooling. They're so cool. The cooling gel running through it. They're amazing. We really, really enjoy them. And you spend, like, a 30-year-old.

life in bed. You should probably get a pillow that's customized for you. We did the smart thing and upgraded to the coop pillows from coop sleep goods and you should do the same here. There's a sleep quiz you can take. That's an easy way for you to find the perfect pillow for you. There's a free pillow consultation. You get a sleep expert's going to help you optimize your sleep. There's a hundred night free trial. It's amazing. And they have 100,000 plus five star reviews, including from us because they're so good. Five stars right now. Visit sleepgoods.com slash small town murder to get 20% off your first order.

That's C-O-O-P sleepgoods.com slash small-town murder. Now back to the show. He is given, now you'd imagine, that's going to give you a stiff sentence. You picked a woman up, beat her, dragged her to a cabin and raped her. That seems like stiff sentence. He is given six months in jail. for that. Yeah.

What the fuck? I mean, it's 73, but holy shit. Yeah. Wow. Okay. He plays the town that South Park's designed after. Is it? Okay. Yep.

So. Middle Park and North Park. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay. Now that's Alan Lee there. Or Al, there he is. Alan Lee Phillips.

So that's him. Now back to January 6th, 1882. Okay. The next morning, January, January 7th, 1982, Bobby Joe still isn't home. Okay.

Now, obviously, if Jeff was worried at midnight, he's a little more worried by, you know, quarter to eight in the morning here. So, at 7.45 that morning, which is like exactly 12 hours after she went out to hitchhike, he gets a call, phone call. He says, I'll give Jeff the floor here. Jeff says the phone rang, I think about quarter to eight.

It was a rancher. He had found her driver's license and some of the contents of her wallet blowing in his driveway. Oh, no. And he said, oh, then I knew something was horribly wrong. So he rushed over. He said, on his way there, not at the actual ranch, but on his way there, he spotted Bobby Joe's blue backpack on the side of the road. Jeff said, so he picked it up and grabbed it is what Jeff claims. He also said he found two other items there.

Bobby Joe's right glove, a tissue also, a tissue next to the right glove, both of which had blood on them, the glove and the tissue. Okay. So Jeff said that's when I spotted her backpack in the snow and I got out of the vehicle and I went through the snow. And that's when I found her glove in the snow and it was covered in blood. So that's what he says. So he says, okay, this is bad. So he gets obviously. So a search party is formed by not only him, but everybody else around.

And they all go out on cross-country skis looking for her. This is like a serious mountain search party here. Around three o'clock that afternoon, they head out on the skis from the point where the rancher found her driver's license and wallet contents. So he said, Jeff said they went up with cross-country ski. to the pass and then I then that's where they found her body. Oh, damn it.

Yeah, so they find her body. Now, we'll talk about her body and the condition, but not far from the body. They find something that's very strange. A thick orange sock. Uh-huh. Like a booty almost, like a real thick winter Colorado sock.

Yeah. Winter woolly Colorado sock. they don't know. There's a detective there that says he doesn't know if this sock has anything to do with her or what, but it's close enough where they're definitely going to bag it as part of the crime scene and everything. They get the bloody tissue. Now, here we go. So they found, this is Jim Hartke is one of the guys of the crime scene, Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent. He said the body was frozen.

Oh, boy. Which it would be. It sat out there all night in the negative. That's terrible if that's your family, but that's great for the investigation. Terrific. Everything's preserved. She was fully clothed. Her hands were close together.

One of them had been zip tied. Okay. So apparently somebody didn't get the other zip tie on. Bobby had been shot close range twice in the chest. Twice. Twice. Now here's the other thing, though. She had the brass key ring with the hook, and it was found.

in the parking lot with blood on it. Oh. She used it. She blasted somebody. She fucking took shot at somebody with this fucking thing. So they find blood on it and they go, let's hope that's somebody else's blood and not hers, basically. Now, the orange sock, they asked Jeff and he says she doesn't have any socks like that. Never seen it.

Never seen it before. So they're like, okay, that's strange. And the detective said that other item that was found up there, the orange booty, it was like an ankle sock. It didn't belong. It didn't fit anything connected with Bobby Joe Oberholzer. Why is it there? It's very strange. So, super odd.

And the one zip tie, it's just the whole thing's weird. The next day now, January 8th, the Holiday Inn looks around. They said, where the fuck is Annette? We got no one net? This is two days of no call, no show from Annette. That's weird. She doesn't normally do that. Yeah.

And remember she went to get a ride at 4.45 in the afternoon there. She never showed up for work. So a co-worker calls the police department to say that Annette hadn't come to work for two days. And they said that's very unlike Annette. She's very reliable and, you know, whatever. So they call her mom back in Sioux City, Iowa. And her little sister, Cindy, was 11 years old at the time and said she remembered hearing her mother on the phone and watching her mother start to cry. And she said, I said, what's wrong?

and she said Annette is missing. Oh, damn it. So, yeah. Now, this is the time that detectives hear about Annette, because they didn't know about her at first. They were just looking at Bobby Joe. So now they were like, wait a second. Two women disappear three hours apart from each other on the same night.

Unbelievable. In the same town, this seems, you know, a little strange here. If they're dead? Yeah, this definitely seems a little bit shady. So they go back and try to find out what Annette did and trace her movements. They trace her movements to the drug. store and they know she picked up her prescription. Yeah.

And then that's it. It's she disappears off the face of the earth. Yeah. So they don't know what's going on. And one of the detectives said, knowing she hitchhiked, we figured somebody probably picked her up. We were all hoping she was still alive, you know, you keep that hope in the back of your mind, but you're thinking probably not. You don't want to think that, though. Yeah. I would say. So they are really freaked out about it. The one detective said, Annette, was last seen at about 4.30 p.m. in the afternoon in Breckenridge. Bobby Joe Oberholzer was last seen about 7.30 that evening in Breckenridge. So they're like, this is...

Too weird. Yeah, it's either they're connected or this is real strange here. And they said it was an all-out effort to find any information on anyone. So they said, another detective said she went in to get some medication. She was talking to a woman that we've never been able to identify. And that was the last time she's seen. So where does she go? They look around.

Woman? No, Annette. They can't find Annette. There's no thing like Bobby Joe, no rancher calling saying I found anything. She's just gone off the face of the earth. Disappeared for months. And so they don't know anything. Cindy, the little sister, said, I know my mom would just say, I just want to know why, how.

You know, that's all I want to know. And nobody can give that to me. Nobody knows why or how. may have her written off his debt at this point pretty much. They don't want to think that way, but she's missing months go by. Months start to go by. Yeah. What answer you got.

Yeah. Even if she ran away from something, she'd call them. You know what I mean? It doesn't make sense. Now, here's where shit takes a real wild left turn here. Remember Jeff, Bobby Joe's husband here? Yeah. He goes to the investigators on his own.

Now his shit's already, you know, he's a suspect in Bobby Joe's disappearance, number one. A hundred percent, yeah. A big suspect in the disappearance. But he goes to the cops and he says, I have to tell you something about Annette, that Annette lady that was missing also. Remember her? Oh. He said that he, quote, has had different premonitions all my life, he tells the cops. Oh, Jeff.

He says, and he has a very specific premonition about Annette's. body. And what is that, Jeff? He said that, quote, I felt that she'd be found four miles from my house, from his house, Annette, who doesn't live there, and they don't know each other. On the 4th of July, he tells them, she'll be found. Why do you think that, Jeff? Well, when the night sky is lit up, it'll be easier to see shit, apparently.

I don't know why he thinks that, but that's what he said. She lights up better when magnesium and sulfur, explodes in the sky. Unbelievable. July 3rd, or July 4th, he says. That's what they'll find him. July 3rd, 1982. Oh, Jeff. And that's body is found. I don't like this.

A young boy fishing with his father who went off on his own to fish somewhere in a different part of the stream. By the way, sidebar, if it weren't for young boys back in the day, half the bodies that were found would have never been found outside. They just never would have been found. That's the tragedy of kids not being able to go out and do shit anymore and just go outside. Who's finding bodies now?

Who's finding them? He used to be every 12-year-old with a fishing pole is going to come across a corpse at some point in his life. But no, not now. That's why we're staying inside now, James. Well, there's bodies. There's bodies stacking up everywhere. Good. Look at Gilgo Beach.

Why do you think that happened? There's no little boys just going through all that shit. If it was 1975, they would have been finding those corpses while they were still warm. They'd have caught that guy years ago. Too busy playing call of duty. Telling you, years ago they would have found that shit. So, yeah, he was fishing in a stream in the Sacramento Creek near Fairplay, which is about 23 miles from where Annette was last seen, by the way. And a young boy found her face down in the stream.

So that Agent Hardkey, he went to the autopsy, and no bullet is recovered. but the forensic showed that Annette was shot in the back as she was running. They think it's a downward trajectory. So they think that she might have been running downhill toward the stream, trying to get away from whoever was chasing her. And they shot her in the back from a higher vantage point. Like a through and through? Yeah, they said that, yeah, through and through.

Now, by the way, they found her face down fully clothed in the Sacramento Creek. She'd been shot once in the back, exit wound in the front. So that's why they didn't find the bullet. on a downward angle of about 30 degrees. Pretty good angle. It's not bad. So one of the investigators said it could be she was on her knees and it could be she was running downhill away from the person who shot her.

One of those two things. They said though the evidence does suggest even though she's clothed, it suggests a sexual assault of some kind. They said her clothing was found in disarray. Her blue jeans zipper was broken. That's a good sign. and they believe that her shoes were on the wrong feet when she was found. So somebody dressed her again, basically, and then did this, which is disgusting.

Now, they figure out that the weapon used was possibly either, and this is a range here. I mean, it could be a 38, a 357, or a 9 millimeter. Pretty good size bullet either way. Either a bigger bullet, but I mean, you're not really narrowing much down there. But I mean, all they have as a whole to go on. And this is from six months ago. And she's been in water. And that could be a 380 or a 40 also.

You don't know. That's what I mean. It's a big rain. So here's one thing they noticed, though. Hartke, the agent again, he was also, like we said, at Bobby Joe's autopsy. He's at the autopsy, and they're looking at wounds or looking at all this. And then he noticed something that he didn't notice previously somehow. Quote, on her left foot, I noticed an arborist.

Orange Booty. Yeah. Think about that shit. The woolly sock. Yes. And in my mind, I'm remembering the orange booty that was found at the top of Hoosier Pass, which is where Bobby Joe was found. Right. Very close to Bobby Joe Oberholzer's body was found.

And I'm saying, quote, holy shit, this is amazing. These cases tie together. Her sock is up there. How is her sock? How does she have one of the socks and the other sock is up there, but not on the girl? Right next to another body. Yeah. So they believed, this is the detectives,

believed that Annette lost her orange sock in the murderer's vehicle. And it remained there until the murderer also picked up Bobby Joe and attacked her. And they think it's nothing more nefarious than Bobby Joe jumping out. And when she jumps out of the truck, the orange sock gets kicked out of the truck with her. Or, I mean, those fuzzy socks, it could have stuck to something. It could have been. Oh, God.

What if she had static on the-veldrow on a boot? anything, you know what I mean? It could have stuck to anything. Static, you're totally right. So your fucking fleece jacket you're wearing because it's cold out. Yeah. So right away, now at this point, by the way, now that they think they're together, Jeff is a little less guilty looking. Yeah. Yeah. Because I guess he had somewhere, he had an alibi for 430. So they think whoever did one did the other based on the sock now. Their original investigation, they believe the killer is a local due to the remote location, where Annette was found. Only a local knows where that is.

Nobody's going to come in here. Here's the fucked up part. Remember we're saying, yeah, they don't think, now they think Jeff is probably not the guy. Yeah. When searching Annette's clothing, they find a business card in her jacket pocket.

You know whose business card it is? Is it Jeff? It's fucking Jeff's. What? What the fuck? What has he done? Sock there, her husband, his business card.

Oh, my. This is weird, right? What's his business? Appliance repair. Right, that's right. Hippy appliance repair. It's appliance repair, but he lights incense while he's doing it. It's the same thing.

Sandals refrigerant. Yep. So now they bring Jeff in for questioning. Uh-huh. And he denies knowing Annette at all. Huh. And they went, don't think so, Jeff. Because they said, do you know this girl?

He goes, never met her. And they go, business card. Yeah. How'd that happen, motherfucker. Then he's quote suddenly remembers picking her up while hitchhiking in November of 81. Jeffrey. Yep. And giving her his business card.

He said at the time I was promoting my appliance repair business with those cards. I gave one to everyone. Okay. So it was a new business, he said. He is suspect one, two, and three right now. Obviously. but he volunteers for two polygraph tests one state and like a federal thing

and passes them both fine flying colors then later on we'll just get Jeff going here when DNA testing becomes available he willingly gives his sample and his blood type does not match any of the evidence nor does his DNA that's good so Jeff didn't do it but what the fuck Jeff how weird is that

that Jeff didn't do it unlucky some bitch that's what you are Man, that is like, that's so unlucky. Never ever get addicted to gambling, Jeff. No, it's over for you. Also, stop picking up hitchhikers. No one pick up pitch hikers anymore. So the case goes cold, okay? 1984 comes around.

Now, Henry Lee Lucas, who is a horrible serial killer, we're going to do a bonus about certain weird aspects of that that I wanted to talk about because I've got a lot of weird stuff. Henry Lee Lucas, but Henry Lee Lucas is very interesting because he confessed to like hundreds of murders that he didn't do. Just anything he saw, he'd be like, I did that one too. Yeah. Like he didn't give him shit.

He'd give him McDonald's and cigarettes. Exactly. He didn't care. So by 1984, he is the number one suspect for these murders now. Really? Yes, because they said he's, it's being investigated that these deaths are connected possibly because apparently he was around at that point. Apparently, they believe there's a, at the time,

he had confessed to the murder of a woman named Deborah Jackson, who they didn't know her name until 2019, that her name was Deborah Jackson. At the time, for decades, she was known as Orange Sox. Okay. That's a, anybody who's like into true crime, Orange Sox is a, that's a murder victim. that's an unknown, unsolved case.

So she was known as orange socks because she was wearing fucking orange socks. Orange socks, yeah. And they said that this, at the time, she disappeared on Halloween night, 1979, or that's where she was found. That's the night she was found in a culvert off the I-35 just north of Mile Marker 268 in Georgetown, Texas. Now, the medical examiner said it was strangulation and it was a homicide, and they said the only article of clothing she had on her was a pair of orange socks.

Wow. So that's why she was known as orange socks. And then DNA and genealogy found that her name was Deborah Jackson, actually. And she was 23 at the time she disappeared. And Henry Lee Lucas had confessed to her murder. So they tried to go back and investigate it. And they said she usually did made work for hotels and stuff like that. I tried to track down those companies.

but none of them are in existence anymore. This was the 70s. So, yeah, they said they tried to put together a timeline for her and really had a hard time doing it. But because at the time, Henry Lee Lucas had confessed to this, they think orange socks. Yeah. Maybe this is a weird thing he has.

He loves socks. But he puts orange socks on people. So that's why they were thinking maybe he did it. Now, later on, he recanted the Deborah Jackson confession. And they don't think he... And 100 others. They don't think he did it at all. So that ends up being nothing.

But in 1984, that became a big, oh, shit, do we finally have it? So, 1989, a private investigator is hired by Annette's family. Okay. There's no progress. And they're fucking sick of it after seven years, and I don't blame them. So they hire a retired Denver homicide detective named Charlie McCormick. And he charges the family. This is wild.

He works the case for fucking decades. He charges them $1 per year. Okay. $1 per year. Basically, I'll do it for free. I can afford that. He works on it every day, and he said that, quote, as years went by, you know, we mused about whether or not we were going to die before we solved this case. 1992, the case is on unsolved mysteries.

Again, another unsolved mysteries. They keep popping up here. This is unbelievable. Yep, they do an up segment on this. They were in Breckenridge shooting the whole thing. and they said the detective at the time, this is 1991, said we have no indication,

no idea who did it. That's what they say on TV. All they know is that Ulber Holzer was found on Hoosier Pass. She might have temporarily escaped her assailant before she was killed. They said that it looked like she was chased before she was shot in the back

of the head with a large caliber handgun. And yeah, that's all they have, basically. It's kind of it's it. So 1998 comes around. Okay. And this is DNA testing is taking leaps and bounds. And investigators test blood found on various items for DNA

and determine it belongs to an unknown male. Okay. Nobody's in the system. So they have an unknown DNA sample. But at least there's something to compare people. people too at this point now. If they ever do get a suspect, you can include or, you know, get rid of them. Exclude in a second.

So in the 2000s, early 2000s, the Discovery Channel does some psychic horseshit on the show about this with some psychics bullshit. Hey, shocker, they didn't solve it. No? Big surprise. 2005, possibly progress. Oh. Okay. There's an anonymous tip.

An anonymous tip comes in and names a suspect. Who is it? Now, they never find out who made the fucking call, but somebody called in and said, Alan Lee Phillips killed those girls. Oh. And fucking hung up. That was it.

So, that's remember Alan Lee Phillips is a guy that was rescued from the snow here. SOS, man. DNA technology in 2005 is still not perfect. It's good. but it's not what it is today at this point. So this lead kind of goes cold because they don't really have any other connection to it at that point. Then in 2020, 20, 38 fucking years later, investigators hook up with the Metro Denver Crime Stoppers and the United Data Connect in 2020. This is a company that uses DNA to help solve cold cases.

They take it and they, you know, look through because cops don't have the man. power to and they don't it's not their expertise to go through genealogy sites and all that kind of shit they they they're expertise is to get somebody in a room and try to force them to say they did it that's their job you did it so i can go home god damn it jay i've been here for 36 straight hours say it so they said you think about these two young beautiful women that you've been seeing pictures of lying in the snow after being shot in the darkness by themselves dying basically freezing to death It would make you not want to give up like Charlie didn't, meaning the investigator there. That's the co-founder of the United Data Connect here.

And he said, and it makes you want to answer the question of who would do something so horrible to somebody else. They said the case has kept going because there's always something to do that is a good investigator or professional investigator you couldn't ignore. If something keeps popping up, you've got to keep following it, you know? Yeah. But we're talking about 40 years. And so they're like, is this going to help or not? So there's a detective named a detective sergeant, Wendy Kippel on the case at this point in early 2020. And she said, quote, let's try this genealogy thing.

Maybe it can work for us. Seems to work on it. Give it a shot. So she sent the, because this is after they caught the, you know, Golden State killer and all that kind of shit. So they're catching old killers on DNA all the time. This is how they got Coburg or two in a second. I mean, they're solving cases from the 70s in the late 2010s left and right because they finally can do it. So, well, the problem is a lot of those people who killed were dead already.

That kind of sucks. But at least they're dead. That's good. So anyway, they sent a DNA sample from Bobby Joe from the Bobby Joe investigation, which is of they think of the killer. And they sent that to United Data Connect. and Wendy Kippel said on January 9th, 2021, I get a phone call from the genealogist that says, I have two more names for you.

Okay. Okay. So at this point, they're like, we know that the whole thing's going to be DNA at this point. We're not going to get a witness to come forward four years later. So she said, I'll never forget the day I got that phone call and got those names. The names are Bruce Phillips. and Alan Phillips.

Lee. Alan Lee is now 69 years old and Bruce Phillips is his older brother. So they reach out to Bruce first. Now Bruce said, number one, he never lived in Colorado. Okay. So that's one thing. He said, but my brother, who I haven't talked to in years and years and years, he's an asshole. They're, you know, estranged from each other.

He said he's lived there before. So the detective dug a little deeper and found out that, yes, Alan Lee Phillips did live in Colorado. As a matter of fact, he lived just outside Breckenridge and worked in a mine at the time. So they're like, okay, they said Alan Phillips still lived nearby in 2021. Oh. He had his own mechanic shop. He was still there, just sitting around. Didn't leave.

Nope. He'd been married three times since then. He has a daughter and two step sons. and they're like, we got to know about this guy here. So they look into his criminal history, and they found out that he's arrested in 1973 for fucking picking up a hitchhiker and beating her over the head, and then she told on him,

which would mean next time you don't leave anybody alive. Yeah, don't leave him to talk. She went, holy shit. So she tried to find the arrest file. By the way, he had his record expunged somehow in 2002. What? Somehow, yeah, because it was a 30-year-old thing. I don't know what was going on.

never go away. But he got it wiped in 2003, which is ridiculous. So she tried to find the arrest file but couldn't find it. No court records of the case. The DA had nothing. Wow. She's like, fuck. She said, I knew I had to find the case file.

So I went over to the archives for the sheriff's office. This is, you know, and she said there was a fire at one point, so a lot of them had been destroyed. This is not great. She said that she went through hundreds of boxes and filing cabinet. and she said, I get down to the last filing cabinet, the last filing cabinet, and even down to the second to the last drawer, and halfway back I see this tab that says Alan Phillips.

So she went through all this. How are you not more surprised at that, that that would be in there after all that? You're like, uh-huh, like, that's normal, yeah. What do I have to tell you to get a surprise reaction out of you? She's got the tab. It fell from the sky and, like, landed on her forehead.

So she said, I was like, this is it. This is our golden egg right here. Yeah. She reads the first sentence and it said, quote, I saw a woman hitchhiking on the south end of Breckenridge and I stopped and gave her a ride over to fair play. And then she reads the whole description. And she's like, mother fucker. How could we?

This is the guy. She said that Philip said he stopped at an empty cabin, pulled the girl from the Jeep, picked up a rock. We told you about it before. Wendy Kipple said When I saw that first sentence, I was like This is him. This is our guy. There it is.

M.O. like a motherfucker. So the problem is the young woman who didn't want her identity revealed. She was able to convince him to let her go and then turn him in, obviously. So she also learned that in 2005 Alan Phillips' name came up in connection with a double murder in 2005. Yeah, with a different one. And an anonymous caller. had called about this one in 2005.

How does he get to stay under the rate? Well, because he had expunged in 2002. Yeah, so they didn't look at that. Wow. If they looked him up, when people say that, they look up, does he have any violent history? There's no criminal history. This is not our guy. If it's not there, then we don't look.

And he was like 50, so he's not going to start doing this at 50. Now? Yeah, now he's going to start killing people. So they had checked it out and it went cold at the time. So at this point, now they need Allen's DNA, because all they have is this genealogy family. Linear shit. Somebody in his family to it. Yeah.

So they said we had to get, you know, DNA from him and we needed to steal it from him. Yeah. So that's what we needed. So they said they're looking for anything that he's throwing out, garbage. Yeah. And they start, there's a whole team of cops following this guy around waiting for him to throw something away. Hilarious. As we've seen with the Gilgo Beach guy, they did that until he threw away a pizza box with a pizza crust in it.

They got him on some fucking street pizza, man. So. Got him on some. fake rays. Yeah, got him on some fucking street sabarros. Some knockoff shit New York pizza. Maybe it was one of the dollar 50 slices or whatever. So they said it was really hard. The sergeant, the Wendy Kippel said he wouldn't throw anything away. He didn't even throw out his garbage. What does he do, burn it? They said, well, where does he put his garbage? She said,

I don't know. He just eats everything. It's in there. Yeah. He recycled. everything. I mean, rappers. He eats it. Yeah. He eats milk cartons. He doesn't give a shit. He's got a compactor. I have no fucking idea. And she also said, this guy was kind of a hermit. He stayed at home. He didn't interact with people too much. Um, they followed him for five weeks without being able to get a piece of garbage. Imagine that. Five weeks. You'd get me so fast. So fast. Yeah. So you'd get whatever joint I was smoking. You get right there. Boom. I leave something outside all. the time. Fuck yeah.

Some can or some shit I was drinking out of. So then five weeks into this, he leaves his home and goes to a sonic drive-in. Sonic hamburger joint there. So the detective here, Wendy Kippel, said, we're all like sitting there watching and watching. And he gets his food. He eats and he leaves. Yeah? And I'm like, dang it.

He didn't throw away his trash. He threw away nothing. Nothing. He kept it. He kept the bag. So they followed him. a post office. He walked in carrying the sonic bag.

What? This guy, he knows that he... It's wild. Why does he... You got something to hide if you're doing that, right? If you keep all of your garbage, yeah. I would say you got something to hide. He just carry your sonic tracks with you.

But on the way out, he's only holding mail. Mm-hmm. Oh, so he threw it away in the fucking place. Inside the post office. Wow. So the second he pulled away, federal property, mind you. Yeah, where it's not like it's, you know, at that point they can easily get it.

He essentially, you can't say it's my trash. No. You gave it to the feds. You gave it to the feds, the property of federal government at that point. So the second he pulled away, they dive into this trash can like crazy. Oh, man, did he leave a tater tot in there? I'm starving. Is there a remainder of a chili dog?

Anything? Oh, man. So the bag gets taken to the lab. They pulled DNA from saliva. on a napkin they get at this bag. Wiped his mouth. And they said they did the test and it was Alan Lee Phillips blood on Bobby Joe's glove

and Kleenex. She punched him. She knocked, she fucking... She knocked him silly. She knocked him. She used that thing on the outside of her glove and drilled him in the face. Cut him open, good too. He had a big gash over his eye. I mean, she jacked him. And they said Bobby Joe was a fighter and without her

being a fighter, we wouldn't have the DNA that we needed to solve this case. If she didn't hit him, this never gets solved. No way. Unbelievable. So February 24th, 2021, they go and arrest Alan Lee Phillips, who is mega surprised. Can't believe it. He has long.

This is not on his radar. What are you guys here for? Yeah. Wendy Kippel said, I got to put the handcuffs on him and he was shocked. The look of shock on his face is just priceless. He's just like, what? So he's charged with two camps. counts each of first degree homicide, kidnapping and assault.

He denies everything. Of course. He says he's a semi-retired mechanic living in Dumont in Clear Creek County. He's got three kids from a former marriage. He's been in Colorado. He said, never went anywhere. What are you talking about? Yeah.

He said, well, your DNA is there. Somebody punched you in the face years ago. Do you remember? Remember that? The sheriff, was the little scar over your eye, chief? Yeah. The sheriff said that although some people don't stay. in an area where they commit crimes,

he wasn't surprised that it was that Phillips lived close by because he said that, he said also Phillips has lived in other areas of Colorado since the murders. Sure, sure, sure. So, yeah, that's wild. Yeah, his 73 convictions were purged in 2002. And that was that. So this is wild.

Bobby Joe's sister, Lori, said that was a shock. The way they were able to get the DNA to find him and catch him, And that was amazing. Unbelievable. You've given up hope that they're ever going to find who did this by far. And Annette's sister said, truthfully, I didn't think it would happen in my lifetime. And Annette's other sister, Cindy, the one who was 11 when she went missing, said it was just mind-blowing, jaw-dropping. I didn't know what to think.

Dave Montoya, who's the guy who rescued Alan Lee Phillips from the goddamn snow that night, said, If I would have known what I would have known what I know then, would I know then, I probably would have left him. If I didn't know he's a murder, I just, fuck you. That's fucking funny. So he didn't learn until everyone else in 2021 about this. And Montoya said, quote, who, I mean, who has luck like that? I really, you commit two murders. You get stuck up at the top of a pass trying to flee the scene and everything else and you get stuck where you're probably.

probably going to die. You ask for mercy and you get it. God gave him the mercy, but he says, you're not going to get away forever. You got your mercy, but you got to pay. So he got to live his whole life, though, basically. Yeah. Or Jeff, too. No, shit.

Yeah, Jeff, a lot of people were like that Jeff got away with that for a long time before this happened. So, Jeff. For fucking 30 years, people are just walking by him going, like, it's probably a murder it. Even though his DNA was cleared and everything else. Yeah, had nothing to do with it. It wasn't clear.

His DNA wasn't. cleared officially till, you know, way later. Until late in the 2000s. So there's 20-something years. So 2022, he's going to go to trial. Yeah. And Annette's sisters and brother flew all the way there to be there for it. Yeah.

Cindy said the little sister, we wanted to make sure that the family was represented. You know, when the jury looks over, you want to see them, you want them to see the concerned, not the leftovers, but the left behinds. And they said that seeing. Allen in court was kind of hard. Cindy said, I was disgusted. You got to live about Alan. You got to live 40 years of your life.

You took my sister to see him sit there so emotionless. No emotion whatsoever. Just very stoic. It was very frustrating. Now, this looks like, you know, Wendy Kippel said, to me, the case is a slam dunk, but to attorneys, they have ways to make it not seem like such a slam dunk. And the defense team said they're going to question the validity of the DNA and other evidence and blame Jeff for murdering his wife and Annette.

Wow. Yeah, they're going to go after Jeff, even though he's been cleared scientifically years before. Wendy said, Wendy Kippel said, they pointed the finger at Jeff every step of the way. It's so maddening because that's not where the evidence led to. So they got Jeff up there on the stand. Little sister Cindy said they raked him over the coals.

They hadn't like he hadn't been through this for the last 40 years. And Jeff said they definitely wanted to put the crimes back on me, the murder's back on me. It was quite painful. The defense claimed that Jeff had a motive to kill his wife. Really? He was angry at her because the day before the murder, you know what she did, Jimmy? Got a promotion? No, no, the day before the murder.

What did she do to him? Earned the promotion? What did she do? Blew a guy in the front lawn. Right. she brought home cold pizza that'll do it you bitch i will kill you in the snow don't you come home with it's negative 20 if you go from where anywhere to anywhere you got cold pizza it's never gonna be hot cheese is hard by the time you get home yeah and don't come home jeff had told

jeff had told the investigators about the pizza thing years earlier so it wasn't even a big deal and wendy kipple said i kind of found that a little bit ludicrous i couldn't fathes them Jeff killing Bobby Joe over a cold piece of pizza. That's not very hippie like. They did question him too about the defense does about his bizarre behavior, like telling the investigators about a premonition of when and where the body would be found. It was pretty goddamn close. Yeah.

You know, and they said that this could be seen as pretty damning to some, right? And Jeff said, and so it was. I just tried to tell the truth and answer the questions. The DNA, they tried to say that the DNA had been tampered with and misham. handled throughout the years. Wendy Kippel said there was some contamination. It wasn't known, oh, I have to be careful and wear gloves so I don't get my DNA on that item.

But the bottom line is the blood on the blood that is on Bobby Joe's glove and tissue was Alan Lee Phillips' blood. No amount of other cops touching it could make his blood there. Right. Doesn't matter. That doesn't. I could spit in it. It's still his DNA.

It's still his DNA. I don't be in it too, but it still is. By the way, on the glove, the DNA match was. one in 17 quadrillion. It's his. Which is 2,275,000 times the population of Earth. Of Earth. Yeah, there's 2 million Earths before.

The sun will burn out. Yeah. And the Earth will go dark before enough people are made to make it possible for it to be somebody else. That's what's wild. That's interesting. So they said that the ties of both women were to the sock because DNA conducted testing conducted a month before the trial revealed that Annette's DNA was on the inside

and Bobby Joe's DNA was on the outside of this orange sock that was found by Bobby Joe's body. So it connects everything. That sock touched her and her. Yeah. Wow. It did come off of Annette. That's what it was. So they were like, you know, this is crazy.

They just thought they were trying to confuse the jury and they were worried that they'd get one fucking juror that would be confused by shit like this. Sure. They, they deliberate for four hours and 45 minutes. Okay. It's eight charges. Two counts each first degree murder, felony, murder, kidnapping, all that shit.

He's found guilty. Wow. Yeah. He showed no emotion, but he has an adult daughter there who was crying because that's her dad and she didn't know he's a monster. Can't believe her dad sucks. Yeah, one of the people said his poor daughter cried. I felt bad for the family because what,

They were going to, what they were going through had to be bad because they probably wanted to believe, you know, that he didn't do it. Sentencing comes around. Defense attorney says he maintains his innocence and maintains that he is the wrong man being sentenced. The judge says, I'm going to go ahead and take my chances. You, sir, may fuck off two life sentences, consecutive no parole. No parole. No parole. Fucked, fucked and fuck.

Take a hike. Now, they said there's a lot of. And, you know, is there more victims? There's got to be, right? And one of the cops said, short answer, yes. I think that there are several that he could certainly qualify for, but we don't have any evidence to prove it yet. There's several bodies that fit where he's going, that they could tie to him, but there's no DNA. So, man, they would say, the one guy said this, Charlie McCormick, the PI, said, I would say this.

In 38 years of law enforcement for myself, anybody that can commit a crime like that of killing. these two beautiful women, I think could have the tendency to commit other violent acts. For sure. Speaking of committing a violent act, February 27th, 2023, four months after he's sentenced to two consecutive life without parole sentences, he is found dead in prison at the Arkansas Valley Correctional Facility at 72 years old. He killed himself. What a piece of shit. Pussy went out like that real fast, four months.

the Dave Montoya, the guy who pulled him out and said, everything catches up, but you know now you can't get away with anything forever. No. No, you can't. So that is Breckenridge, Colorado. What a, what a story. What a story, Mark. That's 10 pounds of murder and a two-pound bag right there, everybody.

Holy shit. Learn SOS. That'll save your life, evidently. Holy fuck. Wow. God damn. We've got to get through the end real quick. If you like that show, shut up and give me.

Murder.com is where to go and get your tickets for live shows. Grand Rapids, I think, is sold out finally. Our holds there. A few holds left that we released. A little bit in San Diego. A little bit in San Diego. Seattle. Those are the ones. Get them right there. Give us five stars on whatever app you're listening to. Helps a lot. Also follow on social media at Smalltown Murder on Instagram at Smalltown Pod on Facebook. Certainly get Patreon. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of your bonus material.

anybody $5 a month or above you not only get all the big back catalog of bonus stuff over 300 episodes, new ones every other week. We're going to talk about the Amy Bradley disappearing off the cruise ship and is she alive? Is she this? Is she that? We'll talk all about it. We have theories like everybody else does.

We'll talk about that. That is for Patreon. And now you get all of our shows. Crime and Sports, your stupid opinions, and small town murder, both episodes, all and free on Patreon. So grab yourself some Patreon. Patreon.com slash crime and sports follow us on social media shut up and give me murder dot com drop down menus take you

where you want to go that said until next week everybody it's been our pleasure bye