Small Town Murder - The Tinkerbell Witchcraft Delusion - Cherry Log, Georgia

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

This week, in Cherry Log, Georgia, a nurse, tending to this rural mountain area, ends up being horrifically attacked & murdered, in her own cabin. Detectives immediately turn their attention to man, who lives only a few doors away, and has a wild criminal past. The way he tells it, he didn't kill who police think he killed, and instead claims to have killed an old babysitter, who he swears put a witchcraft spell on him, that has ruined his entire life! Is any of that possible??   Along the way, we find out that cover bands should always get their names from putting together the names of many hair metal bands, that your step sisters are not a dating pool, and that when you kill who you think is a witch, who has ruined your life, you should at least make sure that it's the right person!!   New episodes, every Wednesday & Friday nights!! Check us out on VIDEO Wednesday and Friday evenings on Netflix! www.netflix.com/smalltownmurder Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions!   Follow us on... instagram.com/smalltownmurder facebook.com/smalltownpod   Also, check out James & Jimmie's other shows, Crime In Sports & Your Stupid Opinions on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!!

This week in Cherry Log, Georgia, when a local nurse who tends to the population on a rural mountain is found brutally killed in her small cabin, detectives look far and wide for suspects, but a real-life monster was closer than anyone could have thought. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed.

My name is James Petrigal. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks. So much for joining us again today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder. We have a wild episode as usual. It's kind of one of these last express. We had a real kind of insanity case.

So I'm kind of exploring more insanity things here this week. And that's what we're expanding on and we're going to do a little bit here. But before we get to that, head over to shut up and give me murder.com. What you get there is your tickets to live shows. Yes. Definitely. Now the next Small Town Murder Show, with. tickets available is May 2nd in Denver.

You can also, no, that's going to be passed too. Yeah, Denver. Get your tickets for Denver, May 2nd, May 30th in Royal Oak, Michigan, September 18th, in Milwaukee, September 19th, in Minneapolis, and then there's more shows after that. So get in there and get those tickets. Shut up and Give Me Murder.com. Listen to our other two shows. You got crime and sports, but you don't have to like sports, we promise.

And your stupid opinions, which we all love reading other people's reviews for some reason. And now what makes that better? Yeah. Two idiots making fun of those people. That's what makes it better. I'm telling you right now, check that out. Do all that. And get yourself Patreon.

Oh, yeah. Do yourself a favor. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus episodes. Yes. Anybody, $5 a month or above, you're going to get everything we put out. Everything. Everything. That includes hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard immediately upon subscription.

New ones every other week, one crime in sports, once, Swalthow. and you get it all. This week, which you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about a guy named Patrick Bojier, I believe, is how he pronounced it. He's a boxer, also a biker, and also on some murder problems as well. So we'll talk about him. And then for small town murder, we're going to talk about this emerging phenomenon of alpine divorces, is what they're calling it, where you just take somebody that you're in a committed relationship with.

You just take them somewhere, and you go, hey, look at that. And then they turn around and you disappeared. and you're gone. And that's the other relationship. Yeah, not even I didn't come home that night. Just in the woods or whatever. So we'll talk all about that and more. And in addition to that, you get everything we put out, all three shows, all ad free with your Patreon, as well as you get a shout out at the end of the regular show, too.

You can't beat it. I'll tell you what, right there. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. Disclaimer time. It's a comedy show we're doing here, everybody. That's right. We are comedians. People are definitely going to die.

We're definitely going to make jokes. And you go, that sounds weird. Well, it is a little bit weird. Unless you do it correctly. That's the thing here. And I think we got, we have the formula down here. Yeah. So the way we do it is we never make fun of the victims.

No. Or the victim's families. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. That works. It's very easy to do when you do that.

There's plenty of other stuff to make fun of. We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere that deserves to be made fun of. Who cares? We make fun of maybe a bumbling police force that lets somebody go kill three more people. And, of course, we make fun of murderers because fuck them. That's why. That's what we've decided.

Because why not? We have no other recourse as comedians with murderers. You can't go heckle them in their jail cells. So you do it here. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear a wild, wild story. You're going to have a good time. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, I don't know. Maybe give it a shot.

Either way, no complaining later. What do you say? No. There you go. So that said, I think it's time, everybody. What do you say? Let's all sit back here. There we go.

Deep breaths, clear the lungs, arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. All right. Let's go on a trip, shall we? We are doing it. We're going to Georgia this week.

Yeah. Barely Georgia, almost Tennessee. Far northern Georgia. Cherry Log, Georgia. Now, people know this, mainly this area, as E-L-L-L-I-J-A-Y. L-L-L-I-J-A-Y. I don't think I said that wrong. But, yeah, L-A-J is kind of the bigger town.

When I say bigger, it's we're talking, it's relative. It's not much bigger. There's that and there's Blue Ridge also in this area. This is a in the mountains near the border, very rural, very mountain, very, kind of out there on its own type of deal here. This is about an hour and 25 minutes to Atlanta so you can still get to Atlanta pretty quick.

About an hour and a half to Chattanooga, the other direction up in Tennessee and five hours and 20 minutes to our last Georgia episode. That was Riceboro, Georgia, episode 639, My Imaginary Murder Friend. Okay.

A person just made up a person. Oh, yeah, this super murdery guy just keeps showing up. This is in Gilmer County, which I've never even heard of. of before. Even doing this show, we've never heard of that. There's 31,000 people in the entire county.

That's several towns. Oh, yeah, it's a whole county. It's a big chunk of northern Georgia. Area Code 706, I guess Cherry Log is an English translation of what the former Cherokee village was called that was on the site before, you know, before the Trail of Tears and all that stuff here. The town's name is believed to be derived from the cherry trees that were once every everywhere in the area and apparently they would float the logs down the nearby river and it became cherry log.

That's what they think. One legend states that the town got its name from Native Americans who used a cherry log as a bridge to cross the river in this area. So they called it cherry log. We're not, who knows? We're not sure here. It was one of several original Cherokee settlements in the vicinity of L.A.J. in this area here, including one called Turnip Town. Turnip Town.

Gross. The old, did you just fall off the turnip truck? Yes, from Turnip Town. I fell off the truck, which is now called White Path. They changed it because they're like, no one's coming to Turnip Town, right? No. Nobody gets a shit about turnips. No one wants to eat a fucking turnip.

They definitely don't want to live in one. We were in a restaurant in North Carolina one time, and Jimmy got a meal, and it looked like there was like roasted potatoes next to it. He took a bite and he was like, oh, what is that? It was a turnus. That's a terrible potato. It's because it was definitely, and it came from the ground. It's a root vegetable, but not the one you're looking for.

So in 1950, Claude Underwood built a country store, a gristmill, and a gristmill, and that became kind of a central gathering spot for this town here. Then by 67, another family acquired it and converted it into a restaurant, which still stands today. Really? The pink pig restaurant. famous for pit cooked barbecue and home style meals. Apart from the blue pigs, obviously. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Don't want to confuse the pigs.

They don't want to do that. Yeah, they'll get all sorts of confusing. Is there a different colored pig? Yes, I have, I've seen black and white pigs. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's different pig. Yeah, but that's the only ones, right? Yeah, well, I don't know what, because there's different like breeds of pig.

Like, there's like the pink, you know, porky, the porky with the fucking curly tail and all that. Then there's hogs that have more, I don't know what's a difference between a hog and a pig. Isn't that the male? Maybe. I'm not sure. Isn't that a sow then? Is it just the motorcycle? I don't know.

Is a male pig a male pig and a sow is a female? I'm not sure. I think that's it. I think that's true. Maybe. There's a hog and a sow. Maybe. Well, there you go.

I don't know the difference between pigs that much except for if they have a dick or not. So other than that, I'm pretty lost. And I'm married one. Hey! Hey! So, geez. Jesus, through the heart of Cherrylog runs Cherry Log Street, which has all of their commerce, which consists of a post office, a Baptist church, a Christian church, and the pink pig restaurant. Okay.

That's downtown. That's what you got. You can mail something, eat and pray, and that's the fuck it. Eat, pray, love. That's eat, well, eat pray and have some more pig. Or eight. And eat prey mail is what they have here. So reviews of this town, now there's no reviews for this.

this town, they're for ELEG, which is, or ELEJ, which is kind of the same thing. By the way, LJ builds itself as the apple capital of Georgia. Oh. So, yeah, I guess no more cherry trees. I didn't, yeah. I didn't know that apples were there. I didn't either. I know they're in, because they usually grow in more cold.

Yeah, they grow cold like New York is the capital, the capital of apples, that in Washington. So five stars here. I love the mountains. I also love the small little shops around the square in ElyJ, not to be. mention most people are nice. I however feel the population getting bigger and minimum wage could go up. They could feel it. Yeah. Do they want minimum wage to go up? Or they like, if more people come minimum wage will go up and then we're all screwed. I don't know what they're trying to say here. I think there's a, yeah, I don't know, whatever the news told them

is that's how they feel. I'm not sure how they're expressing it here. Yeah. Three stars. My experience in LJ has been pretty good. I like the outdoorsy, less populated environment. I would like to see more activities for young adults, better places to hang out other than the bar or in downtown where it can be too expensive. You know, downtown Elegy. It's practically Manhattan. It's practically Midtown Manhattan down there when you get in there. It's 30-dollar Cosmos down there and downtown Elegie. You know that.

You know it. You know, the bars with the long lines and the velvet ropes and, you know, movie stars blowing right past you're going. And it's really annoying. It has to get irritating after a while. Some more attractions that would attract the. younger population. And it wouldn't be a small town if it had that stuff. You don't want that.

You'd be in the suburbs. Three stars. So far, it's just a B-rated place. Okay. I guess that's three stars. There's nothing special about living here so far. It's halfway decent. But there's a lot of, and they put this in quotes, by the way, a lot of heels to deal with.

Like bad guy wrestlers. Really? Yeah. Yeah, they come in. There's a lot of those. They cut promos on the town. You know what I mean? Is it new ones or old ones?

It's not sure. Just heels. A lot of heels to deal with in this town. Three stars, here we go. Pretty nice little town, but you would think that the officials would figure out how to, how, something to do about the traffic cluster at the stop sign near Hardee's. The stop sign. The stop sign near the Hardys, you know, the one.

If you're trying to get to the four lane, it's almost impossible. The four lane. Is that what they call it? The four lane. I don't know if that's whatever lane that is. Is that two lanes each direction or is it four lanes each turn? Or is it one lane in a turn? Is it one lane each direction and one turning lane in each direction?

Ah, the four lane. Four lane. And finally, three stars. Actually, one more after this. Three stars. It is a very pretty little mountain town and I lived here my whole life. There's a mix of open-minded people and bigots so you have to find the right people, which probably isn't hard to do. There's a mix of nice people.

And people shouting the N-word at me, even though I'm Norwegian, somebody's saying. So it's weird. Okay. And then finally, two stars. This town has to be the dirty place in North America. Not the dirtiest. The dirty place. Right in your dirty place.

Is that where they touched you in your dirty place? This people are so fun. This is great. Litter everywhere, dogs crapping on lawns with no cleanup. No cleanup. All the foul-mouthed floridians that flocked here like buzzards on a carcass. By the way, foul is spelled full like a horse. F-A-O-O-A-L.

F-O-A-L. Foll-mouthed Floridians, all the full-mouthed floridates that have flocked here like buzzards on a carcet. Floridates is good though. Every state that borders another one, they hate this like superiority complex that they have with them. The only difference is with Florida, they're all right. They're all correct. That's the only difference. That place is fucking hell on earth.

Okay. The upper class here that will call the authorities if you have a car with the hood raised sitting in your vehicle. You are in a quote, good person in their opinion. I definitely would not recommend this place to anyone. The shit car broke down so everybody looks down on you. Everybody looks down. People in this town. Now, in kind of this town, cherry log proper, the population is 99.

And they keep it at that. If you have a baby, they kill an old person. That's the way it works. Sub 100. You're done. Yeah. The whole area, kind of the LJ, Blue Ridge, that zip code has 870 people in it. So, good Lord.

Three towns worth is 870. And they want more night life. They want night life. Where would it be? up in the holler. Like they're in the mountains. It's the middle of nowhere. Women in this town, 48.8%.

Men, 51.2%. Which, you know, that's not out of whack from the averages, but normal if you have such a small population. Median age here is wild for this whole area. 65.7. It says there are zero people that are zero to 24 years of age here. Zero percent. This is a retirement community.

I suppose. I don't know. Yeah, you just stay here to lead a done. I guess. I assume there's not a lot going on. So if you're young, you probably leave to go to college or for job opportunities or things like that. Well, there's zero people. If there was an industry for them, it would die tomorrow. It would be hard. No shit. It would be over. It's 65.4% married, which is well above the national average. 0.0% of the people have children and are single. So no single parents here at all. Zero.

Race and Cherry Log or in the zip code here, 100% white. Yeah. So I don't know who they're bigoted toward because there's nobody else to, who are they yelling slurs at. Nobody. There's not even anybody there to be bigoted toward. You should really calm that down a few notches, right? Fascinating. Religion, you would expect it to be very high here.

50% is the average, 45.2% here. So actually lower than the average. And the highest is Baptist, of course. As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South, meaning they're everywhere. It's 19.7% Baptist, and then a few other mixes. 13% other faith, other Christian, not sure what that is, but other. 0.0% Jewish. Unemployment here is low, actually.

So the 99 people have figured out a way to make a living. They keep everybody employed. In the median household income here is not bad. Median household income is 64,830, which is only like five grand less than the national average. That's marvelous. Problem is the home cost is also very high. Really? All these homes have land attached to them.

Okay. And this seems like a place that people discovered and moved here and drove the real estate. There's a bunch of these like cabins that are made fancy that you know weren't fancy at one point. We're probably 20 grand and are now expensive. And they're on 50 acres? Yeah, medium. It was some of them. Median home cost here.

$422,800, which is well above the national average. And if we've convinced you, God damn it, this is the only place for you, Cherry Log, Georgia. We have for you the Cherry Log Georgia Real Estate Report. All right, your average two-bedroom rental here, and I'm not sure where you're going to find a two-bedroom rental in a mountain town with a bunch of cabins, really. But it's $810 is what it says. Very low. Yeah, very low. Here's a house in Cherry Log.

It looks like a little raised ranch. It's nice. Three bedroom, two bath, 1, 230 square feet. The behind it is like a big hill raising with woods behind it. You can see like the hill behind it. Built in 1963. It's on 2.86 acres. Inside could, it's okay.

It could use a little help if you're real concerned about wanting to be HG TV, you know, ready or whatever. But otherwise, it's fine. 279,000 bucks for that. On almost three acres. That's not bad. Yeah, almost three acres. The house isn't huge, but it's a nice house, decent size. The next one, three-bedroom, two-bath, 1434 square foot cabin.

It's a log cabin. The logs are, you know, where they're like this in the corners. Like everything, man. It's a log cabin. It's got a nice porch outside. Inside's done real nice. It was built in 1994. It's on a .93-acre lot.

Okay. Shouldn't be that expensive, right? $549,900. I guess because it's new? I don't know. It's built in 94. I bet in 94 it sold for 10 grand or something. You know what I mean?

It's in the middle of nowhere. That's with a $49,000 price cut. It was 600 grand. Holy shit. And then finally this weird ass house, four bedroom, four bath, T-bowl for each and every beehole. 6,047 square feet.

Enormous. It's like three stories. It's got like stonework on a big rounded rotunda. It's got like, two, like big outdoor decks that are two tiers. And, like, it's, it's really nice. Built in 2004 on 7.11 acres. So it's big.

It's like kind of, it's in the mountains. You can see like there's a hill down in front of you and up behind you. One million $249,000. Wow. I mean, it's a big house, but it's not that impressive, right? Not for where it is. It's the middle of, if you want to live in the mountains, I guess, it's great. Those three Ls for real estate.

Wow, yeah. It's not hitting any of them. Not really. I guess this, maybe it is. I guess this is a popular place. I don't know if this is a popular place for like people from Atlanta to go for weekends. Like, you know, Vermont is to the northeast or something. How close to Atlanta is it?

An hour 25. That's not close enough. You could commute if you really want to. I mean, yeah, maybe a weekend place, like something like that, like the Hamptons or something. know how this is, but either way, things to do here. Let's find out. In 2007 or 16, the Expedition Bigfoot opened, which is the Sasquatch Museum in Cherry Log. Oh, yeah. They said it's, you're probably seeing the billboards before you even enter the state of Georgia. This museum will make you a Sasquatch believer. I'll take that challenge, sir. Sounds good. Shit. What the

fuck things do you have there? What do you have there? Do you have one? Did you kill them stuff one? Do you have some hair and a DNA test proving it? Something and this is nothing we've encountered on this earth before. Great for a rainy day and a must see right in cherry log. They said they're more than a museum. They found it important to add this.

This is interesting here. For some reason, on the Bigfoot website, there's like proverbs about Bigfoot that they're like attributing to Bigfoot. This is Proverbs 252. What? It's the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter. So they're saying God's hiding Bigfoot from us, and it's our job to find him. That's exactly what he's.

That's what they're saying. The glory of kings, James. If you're a king, you will find him. The glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter, which is fine, but a fine proverb. but in Bigfoot context, it comes down silly. Wow. Okay.

I think he means kindness. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think it's a literal translation to fucking Sasquatch. Fine Sasquatch. It says, we're more than a museum. We're also a research and reporting center. So you can make all your reports of your sightings to these people here. This is a tax write off for somebody.

And somebody it is, I would think so. Yeah, Expedition Bigfoot Blue Ridge at Gmail. That's how you get to them. And then there's also the Cherry Log Festival, which says that you get a fried chicken lunch with all the trimmons. Got to have them. What are the trimmons of a fried chicken lunch? Well, it just says including locally famous biscuits. Uh-huh.

That's it. A biscuit. A biscuit. A biscuit and a biscuit. A biscuit. I don't know. Mac and cheese, maybe. I'm not sure.

That's a good trimming. Yeah. I'll take that. Arts and crafts, home can jellies and jams. I don't want your home jelly at all. Home bed, not unless I know you well.

Home baked pies, cakes, and sweet treats, fried pies and entertainment. Now, the musical acts, they have tear blue. Got me. Parts and labor, which I like a lot. That's five guys from a mechanic's shop

that were like, you know what? We could start a band. We'll rehearse. After we close the big bay doors every night, we'll just do it right here. That is a pretty solid name for a band. It's not bad. It's very funny. Like a blue collar band, parts and labor.

It's good. Stacey Adams with two eyes. Can't have it with one eye. Confusing with the other Stacey Adams, I'm sure, of course. There's a guy that makes a men's clothes named Stacey Adams. Well, maybe this is a relation. We don't know. The Macon sound.

I bet they're from Macon. I bet they're from making Georgia. And they're making sounds, James. They're making sounds. Big Mike and the booty popas. P-A-P-A-S. This sounds like a very family-friendly act there also. They keep talking on the site how this is just for families and kids and bring your kids

and see Big Mike and the Booty Pappas. Rees-S-R-E-E-S-R-E-S-E-Sol, like Re-Drumand is going to lay it all out for you. And then my favorite band of all time, Great White Lion Snake. You know what they do, 80s air metal. That's a combination of Great White, White Lion, White Snake, mix other ones in there. It's hilarious. And there was a Valentine's gig, and they have Valentine's that you could buy of them.

And it has pictures of the band guys on it and different phrases. Here's one. To my Valentine. Roses are red. And just like Stan Halen, when I get a hold of you later, it's not only his guitar solos that will be whaling. Stan Halen? Stan Halen. I don't know why Stan Halen.

Maybe Van Halen is trademarked. No, no. This guy is Stan Halen. They all have names. The guy on that picture, Stan Halen. They all have names like that. And it says, can't wait to play you like a fretboard. Yeah, it gets worse.

Finger me? What? Wait till you see some of this shit. Here is one. Roses are red. I want to be Izzy, because he's the drummer. Izzy from Guns and Roses. You can be the drum so I can pound you later when we get busy.

This is actually getting really good. Then it says, rock my world. Real family friendly. Next up is a picture of the bass player, Ricky Six. Okay. Roses are red and here is Ricky Six. please do the right thing and send me those dirty picks. And then it says, I'll let my fingers do the talking underneath.

Holy. He's asking for nudes. And then last one, Laney Steele is the singer. Yeah. Roses are red. I love Lainey Steele. Let me see you naked so I can cop a feel. And then it says, I don't just sing with my mouth.

This is filthy. Filthier than the big booty poppas, I would say. This is like prison love notes. These are incredible. This is crazy shit. Crime rate in this town besides those cards. Property crime, slightly high. I don't know how.

You're in the middle of nowhere. There's 99 people. This is crazy. And then violent crime, murder rape robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime also a little bit high. Really? What's going on up here, people? What's happening?

You would think there be zero crime. I got a lot of questions. Stay in your cabin. and leave everybody alone. What are you doing? That said, let's talk about some murder here. Let's do. Okay. Wow, this is an odd one. And like I said before, we did the Express last week in Gadsden, Alabama.

And that had a guy in it who had like a 64 IQ and was super nuts on top of that and very dumb and very violent. It's almost like being dumb makes you real frustrated and to the point of violent. Yeah. Well, if you look at and the studies they've done over time, if you go into a prison and conduct intelligence tests, it's not going to have the same, you're not going to come out with the same scores if you went to, you know, a nice university and did a bunch of intelligence tests. It's way different. So, yeah, people, it's just, it's the way it tends to work out. If you're a little dumber, you tend to be more likely to have criminal action. Yeah.

It's almost like having things. You can't figure it out. Like nutrition makes. your brain develop properly. You know, things like that, not getting your skull cracked around with your kid, too. By your drunk father. Yeah. Hey, everybody.

Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get a better habit with FUM. TryFUM.com. That's what the website is there. Fume is a flavored air device designed to help people quit vaping and smoking by breaking the hand-to-mouth pattern. And it's so good for that. I'm telling you right now, we. Both have these fumes, and they're awesome and simple, natural.

And honestly, it's kind of a genius little thing. No nicotine, no batteries, no vapor. Just a weighted, twisty, fidget-friendly tool that gives your hands something better to reach for when cravings show up. His cravings are not just about nicotine, they're about the habit, that hand-to-mouth motion, the oral fixation, the momentary pause. And when that loop is broken, the craving spike, fume, what they do here replaces your habit with a flavored air fidget device.

It gives your hands and mouths something to do. Distracting cravings without nicotine vapor or batteries. Don't just try to quit. Upgrade the habit loop. Reach for fume instead. It's just air. It's just there. You can sit and you can just draw on it and just it's air.

It's flavored. It tastes great. So you get that motion, but there's nothing bad going in you. And it feels really good in your hand. It's a good weight. It really feels good to mess around with. And it does.

You want to play with it in your hand for a while. And then when you get these little cravings, you can just, there you go, a little bit. And it's used this thing and just taste some flavored air. There's no, you know, vapor or any of that garbage, none of that stuff. It's really great. And it feels on day one, it really, really can help you with the process of quitting and doing that. They have tons of flavors. They have crisp mint, which is the strongest flavor, best for heavy users.

Raspberry, which is tangy on the sweeter end. Peach is my favorite. That's the best. And when you grab a journey pack, you'll also get a first. gift just for using our code small town murder. Fume has already helped over 700,000 people take steps toward better habits. And now it's your turn. Try our code, use our code small town murder to get a free gift with your journey pack. Head to tryfume.com. That's t-R-Y-F-U-M-D-com and use the code small town murder to claim your free gift today. Hey everybody, just going to take a quick break

from the show and tell you a way better way to shop for food with Thrive Market. Yeah, find them over at Thrivemarket.com. Oh, my goodness. It is amazing. You've got to get this membership to Thrive Market. We have done it, and it is fantastic. It's amazing. You can find these products, things that you're looking for that you don't know how to find.

It's amazing. Like, if you're looking for something, you go, I like this, but I want a healthier version of this. You can get, they find it so easy with Thrive Market. Thrive Markets a membership-based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are, simply just hop on their app. The membership breaks down to just $5 a month and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, auto ship and save, free gifts and peace of mind knowing there's no junk in any of the products that they carry. Instead of paying fees on every grocery delivery order, you pay once for the year and benefit from it every time you shop. It is amazing. And the trade-offs that you make, it's not for taste because you're going to get the best stuff.

It's so good. Kids want mac and cheese. They want sugary snacks. They want juice boxes. They're going to eat what they're going to eat. But Thrive Market gives you versions with less sugar, fewer sketchy ingredients, and more nutrition. That's the thing. They think they're getting, oh, I'm getting junk, but they're really getting something good.

It's amazing. Thrive Market makes it easy with thousands of healthier swaps from brands like Goodell's Mac and Cheese, simple mills, poppy, and so many more, all vetted before they hit the site. Love it. Sarah is gluten-free, so that filter helps a lot. You can find gluten-free things right there. Our household benefits from that all the time. You're paying a small monthly fee to offload the stress, research, and decision fatigue of healthy eating.

You can try at risk-free. Easily shop for high-protein meals, low-sugar treats, GLP-1-friendly options, and gluten-free staples. And there's no hidden fees instead of paying the delivery fees, service charges, or tips on every order, the membership bundles everything into one simple monthly cost and the membership pays for itself with their discounts and sales. Are you ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member?

Join Thrive Market with our link, Thrivemarket.com slash small town murder for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. So the episode we're going to do for Express this week too coming up is also kind of a mental trying to, an insanity claim defense. So we're kind of exploring that episode, this episode, and the next episode, kind of different ways that insanity can come about. Sure.

You know what I mean? Like the, you'll see what I mean on the Express when it comes up after this. But this guy is another case. There was a guy with 64 IQ and everything that could possibly go against him in life going against him last week. And then we have this guy.

William Emmett LeCroy Jr., L.E.C. R-O-Y, LaCroy. Oh. Yeah, like that. Leck Roy. Yeah. Yeah. He's born April 12th, 1970.

He's born in Marietta, Georgia, in Cobb County. Sure. There, which is a big suburb, kind of northwest of Atlanta. Uh-huh. His parents are William Emmett LeCroix, Sr., obviously. Sure. And Donna Houston is his mother. He's got a brother that's going to come up several times, and especially going to play a large part in things later on.

A brother named Chadwick Thomas LaCroy. He's born in 72, so he's the younger brother. He goes by Chad, and he will have a remarkably different path than William. An absolutely remarkably different path. Now, it's interesting here. The parents had a terrible marriage, not a good marriage, and we'll find out some of the details of it. His father was widely reported, very verbally abusive, but it's kind of more than that. toward his mother Donna.

His mother Donna is described as a loving, gentle, timid woman. Yeah. You know that one. You know that woman. She's timid because her husband is abusive. Yeah. And she takes it because she thinks she deserves that or she can't find it better. Or her dad was abusive in this one she's looking for.

And that's kind of how it goes. Sure. Yeah, that's how shit rolls downhill like that. You know, you, whatever you, unless you've had some help or thought about it very thoroughly. Yeah, the poverty cycle is very well documented. This shit does not go away. Abuse cycle also. Someone has to go, I'm not doing that and not do it before it breaks.

Now, when William is age eight, let's introduce Tinkerbell. Oh. Yeah, Tinkerbell's going to end up in the story. Pans gal. Well, we'll see here. He had a childhood babysitter named Tinkerbell. That wasn't a real name. That's what everyone called her.

Tinkerbell. Okay. Yeah. Now, Chad and William, now this is when he's eight, so Chad is, you know, William's eight, Chad's got to be six. So they apparently played what was known as, quote, the kissing game with her. How old's Steggerbell? Teens, late teens. She's not 12.

She's like, you know, 16. 14, 16, something like that. Way too old to be kissing six-year-olds and eight-year-olds. Put it that way. Yeah. That is molestation at that point. They would run up to her, kiss her, and then run away. That was their little game.

And she encouraged this, apparently. This wasn't like, oh, what are you kids doing? You got to stop doing that. She was like, oh, that's cute. On her lips or on the cheek? No, no. On the lips. Real kisses.

Actual kisses. Things that 8 and 6-year-old shouldn't be doing. Yeah. You know, that no one should be doing to them, I should say. It would be a better way to put that. There is a thing that adults think that's cute when it's a girl kissing little boys. Yeah. Yeah, but this, from what I understand, this was not like a cute, like kid, like, it wasn't like that.

Like, this was like. Prolonged kiss. Kissing. Yeah, this had a sexual nature to it, a sexual connotation to it, which is strange. And then it gets worse from there, progressively worse. One night, Tinkerbell came into a young William's bedroom and told him that he, quote, needed to know how to do it right. meaning kissing. Because, you know, they've been kissing, but, you know, an eight-year-old.

Tired of these bad kisses in the afternoon. Terrible kissers, these eight-year-olds. They're notorious for it. Right. And she began kissing him long and serious. And then undressing him and then performing oral sex on him. Mouthed it. God, damn it.

Yeah. So this is absolutely beyond the pale of that's bad. That's crazy. We've talked about, and it's a, you know, it's a whatever. We've talked about if, you know, some 23-year-old teacher who's a woman is fucking some 16-year-old boy, absolutely not right. And if it was my kid, I'd want her fired and all that and, you know, whatever put in jail and all that kind of thing. But at the same time, if I was 16, I would have thought it was the greatest thing in the world. And people can argue whatever they want, that's the fact of the matter.

Most 16-year-old boys would be thrilled with that and never be, it wouldn't affect them mentally. They'd be fine. It's not going to, right. It's not going to ruin them for the rest of the lives. It's still awful. Like I said, if it was my kid, I want your head on a pike. But if it was me when I was 16, I would have been like, no, no, leave her alone. This is great.

Be nice to her. Yeah. Whereas eight, absolute, there is no, they don't have anything sexual yet. They're not, you're destroying this child at that point by doing that. Well, there are, there are. Fucking his whole, you know, there are children like that that can, that can, that can actually get an erection and can do the deed. And like, I don't know if they, I don't know if they can do the deed, but they can

certainly lob it in there. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't think there's going to be a finale to the whole thing. No, I don't think there's going to be a celebration for this. Yeah, your dick gets hard when you're little. That's, I remember it. Yeah, you rub up on something a little bit. You're like, what's going on there?

Hey, look at that. I changed my son's diaper. Yeah, you know, you know, you know, things happen. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely happens. So that's hilarious, by the way. It's bizarre.

His son is graduating high school in a couple of months, and he will love to hear about his little hard diaper dick being talked about nationally and across the entire globe. That's amazing. Every parent knows that when that happens, cover it up and ducking, because it doesn't mean what you think it means. Nope, it's flying over your head. That's what's going to mean. Holy shit. you. Yeah. It's scary. Yeah. My grandmother used to tell me all the time I used to piss on her all the time. Be right in my face, she'd say. My little bastard, I'd get so mad. Why? Was I a month old? What are we talking about?

Like I chose that. She thought it was hilarious. So anyway, a week after this incident of her seducing and molesting him, a week later, she molested him. A week later, she molested him. again and they had intercourse. I don't know what a 16, I don't get it. I guess I don't get it. I can't stand kids, so I don't want them around me at all. So I don't understand why anybody would want, I'm going to have sex with an eight-year-old. What a weird fucking thought to have for anybody. I mean, I don't get it.

Yeah, I don't want to picture it. No, I just don't get it. The logistics of it sounds horrible. It sounds like, yeah, also that would be the other thing. I don't even logistically, you'd really have to. That's, that's, so that's a full-grown, Girl. Yeah. No, she's a teenager. Yeah. The day after that, though, the day after intercourse, he thought this was like his girlfriend now. Oh, boy. He thought they were in a relationship. Like, he doesn't know any better, you know. So the day after that, he tried to visit Tinkerbell, who lived in an apartment right above the LaCroix family. So he was like, I'm going to go over there and whatever. See my girlfriend. However, when he started to go up the stairs, he turned the corner and found her coming down the stairs, arm in arm with her boyfriend,

an age-appropriate person. Yeah. Heartbroken. Oh, he was just leveled by this. I'm jealous. He gave, and then William said that Tinkerbell gave him what he would later call a malevolent smile. What? That's his interpret.

She might have just smiled at him. You know what I mean? His interpretation was, ha-ha, fucker. Yeah. Oh, okay, so she's rubbing it in his face. Yeah, nasty, like a mean, spirited smile. Like a, what do you think of that, you little dicked asshole? You know, shit.

Wow. That's how he took it. Yeah. Which we don't know if that's just, yeah, the filter he's seeing the world through or if she was really trying to be shitty to him too on top of being a molester. Then his family moved a week later and he never saw Tinkerbell again. again after that, which is interesting. But he definitely has an idea of Tinkerbell leaving something behind for him.

What? And we'll talk about it. Yeah. For years, he says Tinkerbell put basically that she was a witch and she put a hex on him. We'll talk all about it. Oh. Okay. Yeah.

So for his whole life, he thinks that this babysitter molested him and then put a witchcraft hex on him. that's going to affect him this whole life. And the smile was confirmation of what she's done to him. Absolutely. That was her. I have newt. Winkling.

There you go. I have noot, blood of fucking toad. And there you go. So that's... And molestation of a child. Yeah. It's great. And he's going to like forever blame that for not the molestation.

The hex he'll blame for everything that happens in his life. It's weird. Okay. Tinkerbell is... She doesn't. doesn't know it, but wow. Boy, what is she done? She's like tentacles coming out of everywhere from Tinkerbell.

So there's a social worker's assessment later on talking about his family, starting with William Sr. Let's talk about him. Apparently, this social worker said that William grew up in a family that was without limits and without boundaries. What is that? Everything. We'll talk about it.

out here. He said, and this was more in the area of gambling, the areas of money and the areas of ready availability of weapons, which right away for an eight-year-old, gambling weapons, 16-year-olds, diddling you. This is a wild upbringing immediately. Yeah, he's on the out's with the law already. Yeah, and like I said, these are kind of, this is a rural area. Even though he didn't grow up, that was in Marietta. But their hearts are really up in. the hills here in the hollows. The hills, the hills hearts.

My heart's in the hills, but, but I left my heart in the hollow. That's where my heart's in the holler. That is really interesting that they're already living an outlaw lifestyle and they aren't even isolated enough to be outlaws yet. No, maybe that's why they moved out there. Perhaps. And as a matter of fact, this isn't just, that's the tip of the iceberg, gambling and availability of weapons.

That's, that's something, but it's not the, the, the, main issue here. Several family members demonstrated suicidal behavior. So we had some deep depression going on here as well. She had some mental problems. And the children were poorly supervised, allowed to just run wild. As noted by, you know, a 16-year-old being having sex with your child. She had that child alone long enough to groom and manipulate for this. So yeah. Yeah, him and his brother there with the kissing game. Yeah. And it gets weirder.

Within the extended family, quote, cousins continued to have sex with each other, continued to. Continued to just whatever, doesn't matter for related. Jesus. To engage in sexual behaviors that were sometimes almost right in front of their parents with nothing being said. Get the fuck out of here. See, you could be in your room banging your cousin and your mom's right out of outside the door and she's like, I don't want to say anything. I can hear the surta squeaking and I'm going to assume it's something else.

I'm going to assume they're jumping on the bed. Yeah. They're playing jacks right now. At a very rhythmic face. Yes. Very rhythmic. So that's kind of right there. Holy.

Gambling weapons, poorly supervised children, suicidal behavior, cousins fucking fucking each other in common areas. In common areas with adults who did not, you know. Do you think they're in denial that they don't want to admit that it's happening? Or do you think that they're just fine with it? Or they're

involved in their own shit. They're drinking. They're worried about the parlay that they bet on the, who knows, if we're talking about gambling it could be anything. These people seem to have other concerns besides the kids. This is amazing. It's crazy. So then they go on to talk about the male members of William Sr.'s family.

So this is where dad comes from and kind of the crux of everything here. They said they were particularly dismissive of women. Constantly, I guess the family, you know how people have like a family crest and a motto and things like that. Well, their family motto and their crest is a little different. It's, quote, if it weren't for sex, women would have a bounty on their heads. What? What? That's their.

We'd kill them if we didn't fuck them? We'd kill them all if they weren't such good fucks. That's, that's the dad's side of the family. So you can see the mom's timidity and all that kind of thing and why. Because if she's not a good fuck, she's worked dead. We'd kill all these. That's it. We wouldn't need them.

So now within the family unit, William Sr. was real controlling and abusive, as you might imagine, just from everything here, particularly controlling of mom. Yeah. Obviously, frequently sitting her down and interrogating her on anywhere she went for any amount of time. Yeah. We're talking, you know, really sweating her, giving her the third degree, like going after that shit here.

Which is, which, by the way, I found out what that means, the third degree. The third degree? Where I came from? When I could venture a guess? What the fuck would I know? It's the weirdest thing. There was a, real quickly, there was a New York City. detective in the 1800s.

Okay. And he was like the best at cracking people, quote, unquote. And this is when you could beat the shit out of people. You know, you could beat him with a rubber hose to get them to talk. There's no cameras nor recorders. So there was, they said the first degree was the uniform police officers talking to them. And then if you didn't spill it to them, then the second degree was detectives would come in and talk to you. Oh.

And then if you still didn't spill it, they'd go, you want to, you want to have the third degree? And everyone go, no, no, no, because that was that detective is going to come in and beat a confession out of them. So that one particular detective was the third degree. That's what that means. One guy. One guy. He's the third degree that will beat a confession out of you. That's what the third degree means.

That weird? Just a dude with rings on. Yeah. Just a dude with like a blackjack in his back pocket, ready to crack you on top of his skull. The third degree is the guy with several wedding rings. Yep. That's it. He's graduated from like five days.

different colleges, boy. They're all lined up. His state champ four times. You know it. Four times over. Holy shit. So anyway, that's pretty crazy. He would constantly accuse her of being unfaithful to him, even though she didn't do anything,

really, but be at the house. They end up getting a divorce later on, as we'll talk about here. And they said the divorce was particularly terrible, whereas this is wild. This is in front of the kids, he did this. William LaCroix, Sr., threatened to rape and kill Donna, his wife, and all of her coworkers as well. I'll rape all of them and kill them all. Which I admire your confidence, sir, but, you know, calm down a little bit. I don't think you're going to get, you're going to be doing all that.

The guys, too? Who else? You're raping everybody. He's going to rape his mother and kill his co-workers. Say that in front of the children, which is scary. The insecurities of a man that controls women is fucking mind-blowing. It's insane. It should be studied so much more.

I don't get it. I just don't see it. It's been a problem since the beginning. Yeah. I get it until you're like 23 because you don't understand when you're young and you have that weird energy of jealousy and like, what's she doing? Why is she talking to that guy? But then when you get to be older, you're like, whatever. In your 30s, you should just be.

Trust someone or not. That's it. Yeah. I can't. imagine. I can't imagine. It's crazy. I don't get it either. I'm not, I'm not there at all. I'm just not. You know what I mean? Imagine if like this was modern times and she had like a phone and shit. He'd be ripping it out of her hand going through. Who are you talking to? It's a computer. Or a computer. It would take all day to to hunt down what she did technologically. Yeah. It really would. It'd be a huge pain in the ass. They had an episode here where William Sr. put a gun to Donna's forehead. Yeah. Put a gun to mom's forehead in front of the kids. Holy.

This is a different situation for when he threatened to kill and rape everybody that she ever met. Then he ended up giving his gun to William and saying, hang on to this to keep me from killing her. If you don't hold this gun, I'm going to kill your mother, so you hang on to it. If you see me killing her, shoot me? Is that what he's saying? No, he's saying, take this gun so I don't use it to shoot your mother. Oh, you just hang on to the way. weapon that I would use to destroy your mother.

Yeah, he held to her forehead, and rather than shooting her, he handed it to William and said, you hang on to this so I don't use it to kill her. Never use this in self-defense of your mother either. No, no, no, no, no. Let me kill her if I'm in a strangle her with my bare hands. If I get a hold of her. You put the gun under your bed or something. Put it between your mattress and your box spring.

You just make sure I don't hurt her with this. Yes. Okay. Now, that's a lot of trauma. That's a lot of responsibility for a boy. That's too much. Yeah. I would say, that's a lot.

Which, I mean, you know, that's bad. He obviously could use, if anyone could use a little therapy, I think it's this kid as a kid here. He could use some something. Somebody who's something to. They eventually get divorced, okay? Luckily. Yeah. Donna and William Sr.

Donna remarries. She marries a man named Sam Houston, which is hilarious. Is that right? Yeah, she married Sam Houston. Either the founder of Houston or the actor. Or the actor. So age 17, William. William joins the army.

All right. And this is very similar to a case that we'll talk about later on in the week, too, when it comes to this type of thing. A lot of people, especially in a certain time period, this is 1987, they think they thought that if you just set, no matter what troubles a kid has, if you just send them in the army, they'll, you know, push up the troubles away. Yeah. And that's kind of what it was. And prepared meals. Yeah. That makes them normal.

Which it really doesn't help. I mean, it might help. And some people, it does help a lot. They need the structure and they thrive in the structure. Some people need psychological intervention. They need therapy, too. Maybe this also. Yeah.

It does help to have a regiment and a day laid out for you. Structure. And ordered to follow that. But the problem is when the punishment is go back home, that's not enough. They're just, i.e. Jeffrey Dahmer. Eventually, you just can't hack it. And they send you home to be with yourself.

Yeah, that's not good. And some people have never had any structure in their entire lives. And then they go into the Army and they can't hack it because they've never had any structure. And some people have never had any structure immediately take to it and thrive in it. So you really never know how somebody's going to react going into the service. And it is fascinating. They thought this would solve everything. Being yelled at is rarely.

the answer to fix it. Usually not. That scared straight thing doesn't work. It's not a thing. No, and told to do physical, you know, do push-ups. Like, is that going to, yeah, but some people, it does. I don't know, I don't get it. It's a weird thing. It's just, you never know how the personality is going to respond. So he joined the army to escape home, essentially. It's a mess at home. So he joins at 17. early in his career though he breaks his ankle in the army which he was his goal was to become a paratrooper that's what he wanted to do you break your ankle and you fuck that up you're not going to be a paratrooper anymore yeah he may have done that jumping too you know what I mean this was in some other

basic training thing preparation of jumping he broke yeah oh that thing was going to explode it wasn't going to work yeah his whole body would have disintegrated the second he landed if your ankle breaks in preparation of the jump. Yeah, you're not going to make it very far. But that's his goal here to be a paratrooper and that's dashed pretty early. He's stationed in Hawaii, which not bad, dude.

You lucky son of a bitch. I mean, that's where you're stationed. There's people stationed in Mississippi. You know, like, you're stationed in Hawaii. I'd be kicked out so fast. Oh, God. Well, he started drinking and taking drugs while he was in Hawaii because... I would do. He's in

Hawaii. Yeah, this is much better than the me. Thanks for the ticket, guys. I'm done. Appreciate the plane fair, but I'm out of here. This place is so much better with alcohol and drugs. Isn't this great? Oh, look at the girls dancing around. And it's the best place already. And he's 17. This sounds great.

So, he ends up going AWOL, then getting arrested, and, you know, all that kind of thing. Getting discharged and all that kind of thing. He went AWOL and lived on the streets of Honolulu. He just went, he was like, well, the weather's nice enough and just became a homeless army guy.

He would support himself by breaking into homes to steal food, which that's got an expiration date on that, I would say. That's not going to last forever. And he was arrested in 1989 for doing such things, and he is discharged from the army. Like, we haven't seen him in so long. We should probably just cut ties with him. We're going to go ahead and write that guy off, I think. I don't think. We're going to write that under dessert.

Yeah, deserter. So he gets discharged from the army and he comes home to Cobb County, so still down there, and moves in with his mother, Donna and her husband, Sam Houston. So he's 19 years old. Now, Sam Houston, by the way, apparently at one point William LaCroix was a cop. Is that right? Senior was a cop. Yeah, the abusive one who threatened to rape and kill everyone and put guns to people's foreheads and shit. He was a cop. He was a cop. Now, Sam Houston was a former partner on the force of William LaCroix, Sr. Imagine that. So if he was an unpleasant cat before, imagine what he's like now. Your partner is fucking your ex-wife and living with her? That'll make a sane person who doesn't beat the shit out of his family and hold guns to his wife's head and threaten rape to go crazy. That'll make anybody go crazy. That's like, when they say a crime of passion, they're talking about that of him strangling that man to death while he's in a tuxedo on the altar.

That's crime of passion. So it's his partner. It's not just a co-worker on the floor. Some guy who knew partner, which means that they've had, you know, families have done things together. They rode in the car together. They know each other's lives. That's fucked up. That's fucked up.

So for once, I'd be fine with William flying on. the handle here. But he doesn't. I don't know if I'm fine with it, but I understand. I understand. No, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. I'm not saying he should threaten to rape anybody or put a gun to someone's forehead.

But if he wants to go fucking call that guy out on the front lawn and say, put up your fucking Duke's asshole, I don't see anything wrong with that. I think that guy earned it 100% by doing that. If you marry your partner's wife, I think at some point you go, I might end up with a black guy out of this. This is extremely possible. If not a duel, just a common ass. That's dual.

Something bad's going to have. This isn't going to go without recourse. We'll put it that way. So he's living there. This is just northwest of Atlanta, like we said, Marietta. And by the way, by this time, he's 19 years old. He's 6 foot 5, 210 pounds. He's a big guy.

Big kid. William Jr.'s a big kid. And he's got tattoos on him because now he was in the Army and he went to Hawaii and got a bunch of tattoos. He's been homeless, James. He was homeless. He was homeless. He's got tattoos. So what he does now is.

now is, by the way, Sam Houston has a couple of daughters. Okay. As well, young daughters. By the, one of them is 13 years old by the time William gets back. Her name's Alicia. And he begins what the court documents will call a sexual relationship with her, which is he begins molesting a 13-year-old. We got to stop with the, there's words for things. There's words and words mean things.

If you're 13, if she's 13 and you're 19, you're molesting that kid. Why are we softening child exploitation? Why are we softening that ever? I am not the guy to fucking give you a diagnosis on that. I think you can, there's plenty of child rape has to stop. It's, yes. Why? Because adults can't handle the word rape.

Is that what it is? It's a, nope, molesting. Oh, that's the word they don't want to put on them. So they put sexual relationship. Right. They, you know, people will change 13 year old child to young woman.

Fuck that. They mean, shit like that. That's how language is very important. That's crazy. Yep. Molestation is the word you're looking for. Yeah.

Molesting. And that's what's happening here. Well, rape pretty much. That's it. Yeah. If there's... They're not old enough to consent.

Yes, that's all rape. Period. It's fucking rape. Cut and dry. End of story. Don't care. the 13 year old put rose petals all over the bed and cooked you dinner. It's still right.

Sorry, you can't fuck a 13 year old. Sang her a song and wrote her a poem. Don't give a shit. Don't care. I mean, if she did that stuff, I still don't care. She was trying to seduce you. Doesn't matter. 13.

Child. Yeah. And what 19 year old wants a 13 year old around? None. Nobody. You know any friends with older sisters with tits? That's what you'd be asking. Got any friends with like much older sisters?

that I could bang around with, maybe. Not that. So anyway, that's what's going on. The parents, Sam Houston and Donna, discover this relationship around January of 1990. What's not good? Not good.

Well, this is, by the way, Alicia's just shy of her 14th birthday at this. Eighth grade. Gross. We're talking. Yeah. Well, the relationship was discovered

by Alicia's mother, Sam Houston's ex-wife. She found a note written by Alicia to a friend detailing the sexual encounter she had with La Croy. Which how many kids get caught for things because they wrote it down? They wrote it in a diary. They were a letter not so much nowadays, I don't think, because everything's digital. You can hide things a little better.

But when you had a physical book that you wrote in your handwriting and put it in your third drawer, you could get, that's rough. Isn't that, I mean, you could correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how Epstein got caught because one of the girls, wrote something down? I mean, I'm sure a lot of them did. There were so many, who knows. No, I mean, I think it got blown out because there was a fist fight between two girls at school and one of them had something written down about $300. Something like that.

Well, yeah, because the one was mad at the other. Yeah, I remember here in the 2009 case. I read that book. Children write a lot. Yeah, they do. Don't fuck with kids at all. Well, in this case, I'm glad she did because this got found out before, you know, he did more to her.

But yeah, if you're a kid and you don't want to be found out, don't write it down. Don't write anything, yeah. No. So that's pretty interesting. Now, the craziest thing is at the same exact time this is going on that he's molesting his step-sister, his brother, Chad, had a sexual relationship with the other step-sister, Priscilla. I'm not sure of the age on that one. Not sure. Now, Chad's two years younger, so he's actually a minor at this point.

He's actually 17. but still, unless she's 16 or 17, it's still gross. And it's a step sister. Don't fuck your step sister. And she's younger than, right? I believe so, younger then. And then he took that idea and Pornhub was born. Yeah, sure enough.

He said, I have an idea for a site's content. And it'll be the entire homepage. You'll have to dig through seven pages to find something that's not that theme. That's not step-sisters themed. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to learn much better with Rosetta Stone. You find them over at rosettastone.com slash small-town murder. And it's spring.

It's the perfect time to start doing this. There's just something about it. It feels like a reset. You know, the sun is out there longer. You've got more energy. Everything's happening. And learning a new language is the perfect way to channel that momentum. and with skill that can open up the world for you.

It is very cool. I have to do this. Now, I haven't done this yet. But I have it. I have it, and they gave it to me, and I am definitely going to do it. I have to do it for, I know, like, Italian, like, from my grandmother, from, like, a village in the 1930s and a brutesy. That's not going to help me, like, go to Italy, you know what I mean? So I got to do that.

I'm going to learn some, like, that I can use. It's good, too, with this. They help you with everything. Accents. They help you with, you know, kind of local terminology. It's amazing the way they do this, and I really, really got to get into it and do it. I know so many people who have done it, and it's just great, and it's the best way to learn with this. And they have this thing called true accent, which is really cool.

That way you don't sound like you came from another planet. It's awesome. And with over 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more, Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth. Learn faster, retain longer with Rosetta Stone. It immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence,

no English translations, so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language. They have an intuitive learning process. It starts with words, builds to phrases, and progresses to full sentences. It's designed for long-term retention, so you learn, what you learn's actually going to really stick with you.

and the true accent gives real-time feedback on pronunciation. So it's like having a personal coach. It's amazing. This is so cool. This actually tells you whether you're doing it right. It's amazing. And you can access lessons from your desktop or mobile app, whether you have five minutes or an hour.

Are you ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit rosettastone.com slash small-town murder today to explore Rosetta Stone and choose the language that's right for you. Go to rosettastone.com slash small-town murder today to explore. small town murder now and begin your language learning journey. Hey everybody just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get the best trees and plants for your yard or house or anywhere with fast growing trees, fastgrowing trees. Did you know that fast growing trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery

with thousands of trees and plants and over two million happy customers, including me, I love fast growing trees. They have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, to see trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and house plants all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. It's like your local nursery, but anywhere you live with more plants than you'll find anywhere else. Whatever you're looking for, fast-growing trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space, and lifestyle. Fast-growing trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Just click, order, grow, and get healthy, thriving plants delivered right to

your door. They're alive and thrive, guaranteed. promises that your plants arrive happy and healthy. No green thumb required, just quality plants that you can count on. Plus, you get ongoing support from their trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants, and learn how to care for them every step of the way. I've ordered so much stuff from fast-growing trees. We have a big yard, and we wanted to put some fruit trees in. So we ordered a bunch of these fruit trees. I got a peach tree. I got an apple tree at all sorts of trees. And then we ordered some bushes, too, these nice shrubs to go out in front by our driveway. So, yeah, making it nice and fast growing trees is so, makes it so easy

and they're so helpful to do it, too. It can be really overwhelming to do this in person. It really is. Will you just see a sea of plants? You go, I don't know what to do. You feel great knowing that your plants are guaranteed and supported by experts, too. And when they arrive, they are in great shape. They're ready to go. Fast growing trees can help anyone get their home and yard ready with spring planting essentials and trees and plants that are guaranteed to thrive. It's so good. Fast, easy online ordering, just click, order, and grow. They have the plant experts that'll help you with that. Supports available seven days a week via email chat or phone. Right now, they have great deals on spring planting essentials up to half off on select plants, and listeners to our show

get 20% off their first purchase when using the code small town murder at checkout. That's an additional 20% off better plants and better growing at fast growing trees.com using the code small town murder at checkout. Fastgrowing trees.com's code small town murder. Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. Use small town murder to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time.

Terms and conditions apply. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you how to get the best clothes, easier and much less expensive with quince. Quince.com. Q-U-I-N-C-C-E.com. You know it. A thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and that last.

You know, it's something that looks like garbage after two times that you wear it. That's where Quince shines, premium fabrics, considered designs, and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and dependable, even as the seasons change. Quince has the everyday essentials that you're going to love and that we love with quality that lasts. They have lightweight cashmere sweaters, short sleeve Mongolian cashmere polos, linen bottoms and shorts, Jimmy got those linen pants and yes, it's good times there here. T's in 100% Pima cotton and European jersey linen. These are the

versatile pieces that make a wardrobe actually work season to season. Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. That's how they do this. You go, how is it cheaper if it's so much better quality? How's it less expensive? Because that's why. There's nobody in the middle taking the big chunk of it. It's awesome. You're not paying for a brand markup or fancy retail stores, just paying for the quality clothing that you're going to get. The cashmere is 100% Mongolian, the same stuff luxury brands are using.

The Pima Cotton is a long staple, which means it stays soft and doesn't pill. And the European jersey linen is breathable and lightweight. Everything is built to hold up to regular wear and still look good. Their clothing is rated between 4.5 and 5 stars by thousands of people wearing it every day, including us, and the only partner with factories that meet really. rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. I've got so much stuff from here. Honestly, I love Quince.

I go to Quince first when I need clothes now. Yeah, it's terrific. There's no reason to go anywhere else. They have all the really nice stuff. Prices are great. Can't beat it, honestly. I've got nothing that I don't like from Quince. It's fantastic.

Stop overcomplicating your wardrobe. You don't need a closet full of options. You need a few pieces that actually work. Let's do this, everybody. Right now, go to quince. slash small town murder for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it, and you will. Now available in Canada, too.

Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash small-town murder for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash small-town murder. Now back to the show. So that's what's going on here in this house. So these kids are a mess, obviously. Everybody's fucking everybody. It's crazy.

Now, Alicia's mother urges the cops to prosecute William for statutory rape. Yeah. A good mother. Yeah. Get this kid, get this kid. That's Sam Houston's ex-wife? That's Sam Houston's ex-wife. Yeah.

Around the same time that the cops are aware of William LaCroix for this incident, and they're looking into it, there's also they're investigating a string of residential burglaries in late. 1990 and early 1991. Sure. A detective named Kevin Flynn identifies William LeCroix as a number one suspect here. Now, March 3rd, 1991, this is while they're all investigating this and everything, he's pulled over for having bald tires on his car. Is that illegal? It is illegal because it's unsafe equipment. Yeah, but how do you tell unless you're at a stoplight and you look over?

They got. tires so bald. They got to be so bald. I think basically they wanted to pull him over because he was a suspect and the other thing and they were looking for a reason and that was the bald tires. Now they search his car. They found a holster, a gun, and several handwritten notes. What do they say?

Again, stop writing shit down everybody. Just stop it. If you can't remember it, you'll think of it later. Don't worry about it. One of the note described, the notes. notes here describes a plan to, quote, rob cars and kill people driving so the car can be used for two or three days. So just a succession of murders to use the car. A carjacking robberies.

Yeah, until it gets, you know, hot and then switch it off for another dead person's car. Another list, another list had listed steps, including burglarize house, flee and switch cars. Do you need to write this down, really? No, that's pretty easy. Seems easy. Be ruthless and famous. That's one of his goals. Burglar Ice House, flee and switch cars, be ruthless and famous.

Don't forget. This murdering car thief over here. Who is he? And also to quote, rape rob and pillage. Okay. Those are all things he needed to remember by writing. Write it down. Don't forget laundry detergent.

These are what he did. On top it said, how to be a pirate. And then he wrote all that shit. What the fuck? Yeah, you got to rape rob and pillage. And then you got to kill people and take the boat. Take their stuff. Burglarize their house.

Why not? Take the boat. You got it. So he wrote down, be serial killer for benefit of take car? Yeah, to do that to take car. That's his famous, like, his string of crimes that he wanted to put together was I'm the. Yeah. carjack murderer guy.

You could solve this with a bus pass. This is so crazy. This is crazy. Or just buy a shit car. Get a job and buy a car, you lazy fuck. What are we talking about here? There's no reason to do any of that. None of this shit.

He had a third document here. So we got one. Rob cars and kill people driving so that the car can be used for two or three days. Then burglarize house, flee and switch cars, be ruthless and famous, rape rob and pillage. That's two separate notes. 1990s Blackfeard. Nice. Yeah, exactly.

I'm ready to go here. A third document had on the top H-Dash-L, which it's actually a hit list. That's how it shortens it. Oh, yeah. Got my HL going right here. At the top, and it has a list of names, a hit list targeting, number one, his stepfather's ex-wife, the mother of Alicia, who. The one that started the police involved in this shit. Yeah.

Law enforcement personnel, specific ones that he was after. Sam Houston. No, not that particular. On his case. And then, quote, anyone who stands between me and freedom or escape. That's his hit list. So there's... Anybody, really, that crosses him at any time.

There's no objective. Nope. Just... It's just vindicate... Revenge! revenge, it's just piss and vinegar. Yeah. I mean, if you could put, if you could just put him like,

like in a room for like 10 years, oh, this would burn off usually. Hopefully, fuck. I don't know if this burns off. I mean, the normal stuff burns off, but I don't think rape robin pillaged things burn off. I think probably want to keep doing that. And the end goal is, uh, why?

That's what I mean. It's not like then rob this bank and get million dollars. There's no Ocean's 11 scheme here. Like there's no and then this is the big heist. Yeah. The big last heist where I'll then retire and go back to Hawaii to live. It's just rape rob pillage until people get in my way, then kill them and keep killing until everybody leaves me alone. And rinse and repeat, I think.

Even in Grand Theft Auto, you can't win. There's stars eventually. They're going to waste. you. I mean, I know the code and everything, but still. You can get rid of those as much you want until you get into a no-fly zone. Then it doesn't go away. Five stars, baby, all the time. You fly over the base. You're screwed. Then you're in trouble. Then you're in trouble. You're in a lot of trouble. They're going to come after you with jets and shit.

Yeah. And then you respawn at the hospital. Minus some money. Minus some cash, but you still have all your weapons. Still got everything. So that's what he's doing here. Now, August of 1991. he is going to be in a lot of trouble. They take him in and they have everything that he did and they basically kind of ball it up into one case. All right.

Now, it's two cases, actually, because he is going to be sent to state prison for aggravated assault, 10 counts of burglary, child molestation, and statutory rape. Okay, those are real bad inside, too. That's a lot of charges right there. It's a big old stack of charges. It's a stack of scum amongst thieves, too.

Yeah, yeah. It's a stack of everybody inside is going to fucking hate you. Maybe, unless he has the right tattoos and then they won't. That's the thing. They always hear that. It's all going to way. When you talk to people who actually been in prison, it's not true. No?

If some fucking doughy, fat little accountant who's never been in trouble before molested a bunch of kids and comes through, yeah, they'll steal all his shit and they'll slap him around, they'll do all that. But if some fucking guy with an iron. cross on his fucking left tit shows up and you know says where's my swastika he's going to have a ton of friends it's not going to matter you know what I mean

if he's in one of the gangs it won't matter that's how it works in ways in the in the in the now they make everything fucking political the sheriff tries to make sure that anybody in his prison system or jail system

say again I said that goes for any gang doesn't have to be the Nazi gang it could be this gang or that gang But he'll isolate the people that are that are targetable to keep them safe because one, two, deaths. It doesn't matter a lot of times. Protective custody, yeah. Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

One or two deaths inside your prison without you being able to control it, doesn't look good. It doesn't look good. No, so they try to do that. And yeah, but this guy, though, that's not his deal. He's going to be just lying in prison. And he's a huge guy. And it's 1991 when people couldn't virtue signal. constantly on their social media about stuff.

So the prisoners weren't going to say, we don't like, they just were like, hey, what's up, dude? And they couldn't look up his charges, too. Back then you couldn't find out what somebody did unless somebody told you. Somebody had to tell you. Right.

Yeah. So people would lie about their charges like crazy in the 90s. So then he catches a federal charge. That's all state time. Okay. Then he's convicted on a federal charge of possession of a sought-off shotgun,

which adds five more years federal time. So that's after the fact. So, yeah, he's sentenced to 20 years state time, then five years federal time in a separate facility and everything like that. So he's not going to do that much time. I'll end up doing about 10 years in prison altogether out of the 25. 8.2? Yes, like 7 and 3 kind of deal. In 1992, he attempted suicide in state prison.

In the joint. Yeah, didn't like it very much. other things he did while he's in prison. Oh, boy. He gets obsessed with witchcraft. Really? Obsessed with it. He looks into it.

He reads about it. He really, really, really gets into witchcraft. Talks to other people who know about it and know about it and gets real into witchcraft to try to figure out that hex that that babysitter put a tinker belt on him. Oh, he's trying to get to the bottom of it because he's got some time to figure it out. Got about 10 years to kill here. So he became convinced that supernatural forces were at work in every aspect of his life and that people, including and mostly Tinkerbell, could cast spells and that hexes were 100% real. 100%.

So he found like the voodoo contingency of his shit here. Found the guy in there. He was released from state prison in 97 after serving a little over six years and then ordered to federal prison for the weapons charge. And then he does almost four there. So three and he does six and change and three in change. So he does about 11 total. Now, 2001, he is paroled. Nice.

We're letting this guy out who has definitely not rehabilitated himself in any way. He's just now obsessed with witchcraft too on top of everything else, which that's just what he needed. A weird supernatural obsession, right? So 2001 is parole. He begins his supervised probation and is welcomed into the home. of his mother and Sam Houston, which if I'm Sam Houston, you're never coming to my house again.

You rate my daughter. Well, sorry. He likely feels a little safer now that those daughters are probably out of the house? Well, yeah, because that was 10 years ago, so they're in their mid-20s now. But what are you going to do for Thanksgiving?

You're going to have them come over and look at this guy who just got out of jail for molesting them? That's crazy. Can't do that. Maybe she, maybe mom talked him into, well, on those days, he's not allowed over. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm sure she had to talk him into some. I'm sure he didn't say, oh, William's getting out. Tell him to come on over. Yeah, tell him to move in. Spare rooms all fixed up for him. I'll put a TV in there. Yeah, let's help him. I really want this guy in my house. Yeah. So by then, though, this is at in Cherry Log. Yeah. So they live in the hills and Cherry Mountain, Cherry Log. So this is September 2001 now. Okay. All right. Which is a pretty eventful month, I would say. A smidge. It's a tad bit in a little tad bit in a America? A little bit of a... Historical month, to say the least. Yeah. Now, during this, as a condition of his release, he's ordered to undergo a psychosexual evaluation in 2001.

What is that? It sounds like a disco song. Yeah. It's fucking crazy. Or a fan. Yeah. Playing at that festival right after the booty poppers. Yeah.

Psycho. I would... Imagine if the state mandated you to get a psychosexual evaluation. That's crazy. Oh, I'd feel miserable. I'd be so sad. I'd feel so sad. What kind of questions must those be?

Oh, God, Jesus. Yeah. So when you see this, your dick gets hard, right? Right. When you see like a road kill, does your dick get hard then? No. Okay. So when you masturbated yesterday, what to?

What to what? Exactly. And for how long? Yeah. Okay. So it was that for 10 minutes and then another three minutes on somebody else. Okay. Oh, then finally you hit the jackpot where you were going that time.

When you do masturbating. jot it down tomorrow. Yeah, just give me a little. And bring that notebook to me. Give me an overview. You'll have a free hand. Don't worry about it. Just free.

Give me an overview. Do it while. So he shows up here on September 18th. So that's a week later. They probably just reopened for Christ's sake to complete the condition of his federal probation. He ends up leaving before he's seen by the person he was supposed to evaluate. Really?

He said that he had to leave because, The waiting, the people in the waiting room reminded him of child molesters. There must have been a huge mirror in the waiting room. Right. And he was like, oh, man, there's a big, big giant 6'5 child molester out here. I see him. There is a bunch of mirrors aimed at other mirrors. And he's like, there's so many child molesters that it's just you.

Yeah, it's just you. It's only you. Did we tell you the federal probation office is actually inside a fun house? Because it is. It's actually inside a fun house. It's all mirrors. one made him look real fat. Some long ones, some short ones.

Yeah, just to ruin his confidence. Some wobbly. Some made him look wobbly. He's like, am I drunk, what happened? So they looked, they reminded him of child molesters, so he left. They probably were all child molesters, man. That's why they're having psychosexual evaluations. I've never had one of those at all.

They're not here because they fuck normal adult people. No. Absolutely not. They're all fucking. Fuck wild or illegal things or children. Right. Illegal. Yeah. Illegal as fuck.

So he could have been sent back to prison for a year just based on him walking out of this. Just based. But they gave him another chance. They gave him another chance and they reschedule his appointment for October 22nd. All right. Okay. So he's getting another chance here. Not too shabby.

And the probation officer warned if you are not back that day. you will go directly to prison. We're just going to send marshals to your house to get you because it's federal prison. So there you go. He's getting real weird during this time period, too, in that prison. The witchcraft and the prison and everything has made him a little bit weird, I think. Sam Houston, his stepdad is growing more and more concerned by the day about what a weirdo he is. He's basically spending all his time in his bedroom on his computer.

Oh. That's all he's doing. That's generally illegal. man, just in there in the bedroom. And he probably smells horrible. You know what I mean? Just horrible. The computer we find out later was used to search for survival gear out there.

And he used the scanner, which in 2001 was pretty good technology. He used the scanner to scan Sam Houston's passport as well. Oh, one of the printer scanner thing. Yeah. Okay. Scan it into the computer. Okay. Now, on the back of, this is what he did too.

He wrote shit down that he needed on the back of his evaluation scheduling letter. So he has a scheduling letter for a psychosexual evaluation. He's like, let me put crime stuff on the back of this. Cool. The laundry list of things I need for being a criminal. I need for criminal stuff. Yeah, survival gear. That's the way he put it.

He wrote need to acquire list on top. Sleeping bag? No, actually. Binoculars. Uh-huh. Boots. Gloves. Uh-huh.

Guns. Yeah. Ammunition. For sure. Food. Uh-huh. Water. None of these are survival things except for the food and water.

Except for the food and water. Yeah. These are things to go do something bad. That's all they are. They're not to stay somewhere for a while against the elements. Food and water. Which should be a given. You would imagine.

Yeah. Food and water would be a good. Nope, not a sleeping bag, not a, nothing, not a porta potty, nothing. Roll a toilet paper, not a goddamn thing. Shocking, he had to write down food and water. Food, water, like he would have forgot that. He'd have got out there with his binoculars and his guns and his ammo and his boots on and everything. I'm hungry and thirsty.

I'm hungry. You know what I forgot? Food and water. Son of a bitch. How did I forget that? I got the boots. I can eat those. Himberlens.

Oh, my God. He also purchases plastic cable ties, which are like the little zip ties that go around, like, your cables. If you bunch up your computer cables and zip them together. And camouflage makeup. Oh, you know, for like. Yeah, he got that. Yeah, so you can creep through the bushes. Okay, let's enter another character into this story here.

A very lovely young woman here. Joanne Lee Teasler. T-I-E-S-L-E-R. Tisler or T-Sler, I'm not positive. Joanne. Now, Joanne couldn't be more different than William, let's just say, right away. I mean, she's totally different. Nice family, smart, studious, does her thing.

She grew up in Franklin, Tennessee, which is south of Nashville. Right. There. Yeah, you know where that is. Her parents are Tom and Janie. She's got a brother named either Case or Casey, C-A-Y-C-C-Y-C-C-C-E. C.E. Could be Casey, could be case. That's Casey, right? I think so. Never know. Now, Casey here said that when he was four years old and Joanne was three, their parents got a divorce. Yeah, it happens. Which it happens. And sometimes they end up making crime lists. And sometimes if the parents handle it right, sure. You end up with a very nice, well-adjusted young person.

Sometimes you end up with two happy homes, which is the goal of every divorce should be. That should be the goal. Yeah. Yeah. But to make yours a little bit better, though, that's part of it, too. Make your home. Just that much a little bit better than the other one. It should be a go cart.

Yeah. It's just like mom's house, but with a go cart. Yeah. Who do you think of that? Just like mom's house, but a dirt bike. A dirt bike, huh? What do you think? But the Xbox is in your room.

It's not. the living room. Not in the living room. You do whatever you want with it. That's fucking amazing. Ah, divorce is fun to laugh about. Once you're on the other side, it's all you can do.

It's either that or you start writing down boots, binoculars, camouflage makeup, food, water. When you have to remind yourself about food and water, you fucked up. You fucked up. You fucked something up. Good.

Man, that's funny. So Casey said, Joanne had issues with men. And I had issues with self- esteem. That's what he says. He said, she countered my self-esteem. I let her know that guys were okay. So they said they basically helped each other that way. Okay. She bolstered him and he let her know that not every guy's an asshole. It's okay to toss one aside. Exactly. So that's, that is great that the kids kind of, sure, being that close in age helps because they could really

relate to each other and that's helpful. He, as a matter of fact, said she was the one person in life that I always connected with, like, as a young, when they were young. So that's great. She went to Franklin High School. She played on the girls' soccer team, which was a nationally competitive program. Wow. Like, not just local. They were nationally ranked.

Yeah, she was an athlete and a very good student. Once, this is how nice she is, by the way. She was taking a walk and was attacked by three large dogs. Oh, shit. That's terrifying, right? Yeah. after coming home from the emergency room, she didn't say I hate dogs or I'm interested in dogs.

She said, Mom, I'm sure glad those dogs got me. Why, you ask? Why? There was a child in a stroller further down the road. Could have got the baby. So better that the dogs mauled me than that baby. That's a nice person. It's a very caring.

What interest does she sustain? Do we know? Not sure exactly. She was more by three fucking dogs. It's a lot. Three large dogs. I think it ended up just being stitches and things like that. Nothing, you know, life altering.

But something that would have torn apart an infant. Absolutely. That's, you know it. And even later on, too, because she's going to be a nurse later. Yeah. We'll talk about what kind of nurse. But there is a sign in her office saying, if you cannot pay for your services, let me know. In other words, I'll do it anyway.

Yeah. It'll be free. I mean, obviously. Yeah. I'm not going to leave you to die. So after high school, she had a scholarship to Berry College in Rome, which is a small private liberal arts school. Oh, Rome, Georgia. Rome, Georgia.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's really going overseas. Wow. Look at her. She's branching out. This actually has the largest contiguous campus in the world. What is that? A small college, but it's the largest campus that doesn't have, like, breaks in it, one campus together.

In the world? In the world. You know, like ASU has, like ASU. Then they have West and they have this one. And that wouldn't count all the ones on one. It has 27,000 acres of forests, fields, and mountains. Wow. Somebody very wealthy must have donated that to a college to start one.

Because that's how most colleges start back in the day. 27,000 acres. That's a woods. She's going for nursing here. She's going to be a nurse practitioner person, which are insanely useful. especially now when medical care is so crazy, expensive and all that kind of thing, those nurse practitioners will save your life. It's also very helpful to streamline for the doctor who's – because you can balance severity

for him versus she can take care of the not-as-severe things. Absolutely. Yeah. And they can give us the doctor more leeway, basically. And yeah, these people, nurse practitioners, really, they're amazing. Yeah. Huge, huge part of what we have going on right now. So a friend here, she helped a teacher that became a friend of hers, too, build a fitness center.

A friend later wrote that every time she visited Joanne at Berry College, Joanne would take her blood pressure and run about 10 other readings on her. She's practicing, too. Yeah. Take her vitals. Yeah. She said she was always afraid something would happen to me and then I couldn't be there. for her. So she's like, got to make sure you're not going to have a stroke here. Make sure your friend is on tip top.

It's just like, 21-year-old girl coming over there. She's like, hold on a minute. Let me make sure you're not going to explore. I'm going to learn vitals when I start coming over here, James. Yeah, you should. Just run it a few times. She graduated from Barry with all A's and one B. And she was pissed off at herself.

She got a B in swimming. So nothing that really matters for her career path anyway. How do you get a B in swimming? I don't know. I'm not sure. It seems like if you try real hard, you just get an A, right? Feels like you got in the pool and got out with help? That's an A.

That's an A. You floating? You did it. Are you breathing outside the water? Terrific. I mean, the whole grading of swimming is sink or swim, right? You swam. You win.

That's an A. I guess times are involved or something like that. I'm not sure. Sometimes you don't sink. You still fail. Her strokes are a little off. I don't get it, man. Wow.

She got to be, though. Now, after Barry, she moves back to Tennessee and attends Vanderbilt University, which is a very good school, actually. This is on a work scholarship where she earns her master's degree as a family nurse practitioner graduating with honors. Wow, from Vandy. Yeah, she is doing very well. She's very smart, and she's very nice, too. She also likes to, like, go mountain climbing and stuff like that. It's real active.

She's got a lot going on. She climbed the Grand Teton Mountains in Wyoming a bunch of times with her mom and would repel the cliffs and do all that shit. Yeah. She's like cliffhanger. Really climbing. Yeah. Really climbing. Yeah.

Not just one foot in front of the other fucking. Yeah. Not like Arizona hiking where you're just walking up a dirt hill that gets a little steeper sometimes, but you're still walking up a dirt hill. Congratulations on not twisting your ankle, you lazy fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The challenge is do it when it's a buck 17.

and see how you like it. But when it's 73 degrees outside, really anyone should be able to do that who's got mobility, normal mobility. They made that shit illegal, the 117. It's very similar to, yeah, it's about time. How much was that costing the city having helicopters, fucking dangling people off of ropes

as they had to save them constantly because they were too stupid? It's the same law as if you cross a flooded wash and you need to get saved. You're paying for it. Yeah, the dumb driver or whatever it is. Yeah. Stupid motorist or whatever term that they probably shouldn't be calling people. No, no, no.

I think they should be calling them that because you don't want that. Yeah, I don't disagree, but you know what I mean. Never mind just the fine. Yeah. You are a, to be in court with someone to adjudicate you a stupid motorist is that might be enough for you to go, I don't want to be a stupid idiot motorist. That might be enough embarrassment for you. We should call everything.

Here is your dipshit charges. Yeah. You did this. Yeah. The dipshit. Dipshit hiker law. That's what they should call it. Wow.

So, 1999, after graduation, she accepts a position with the National Health Service Corps. Now, this provides medical care to underserved populations in rural North Georgia. Remember Doc Hollywood? Yeah. That's what she is. Anything called Corps is considered like almost charitable work, right? Yes. And that's it.

She signs up for a two-year stint up here to do this. And this is exactly. Doc Hollywood, the woman in Doc Hollywood, the female lead who, you know, took him around to all the different houses and they would read the letters to people and do it. This is exactly what she does. Wow. Sometimes people are just lonely and they call and they, so she'll come talk to him for a while. Sometimes it's medical problems. Sometimes it might be to read to somebody. And it doesn't, it's literally exactly like sometimes it might be to piss all over the woods to throw off the deer hunters. You never know. Eat those hunters from getting their game.

So kid, I was like, wow, she was just pulling her pants down, squat, and another squat. I was like, this is wild. She had a lot of piss she could pinch off a lot. I didn't even pinch off piss like that. Yes, I mean, her kegels are, ugh. I would have to grip so tight. Not just her vaginal muscle, bladder muscles are tight. I'd have to pinch off the dick.

I wouldn't be able to do that. No, he'd have to get you like something to wrap around it like a junkie on his arm. I'm going to tie Jimmy off with a rubber hose. Pomp off. Yeah. So that's what she's doing, though. And if you don't understand what we're talking about. Or just piss on a cup and sprinkle a little bit here a little bit here and there.

Why not that? Well, if you don't know what we're talking about in Doc Holliday is a movie with Michael J. Fox. Go watch it. You'll figure it out. You'll figure it out. She was pissing all over the woods and she was a nurse practitioner. And so was he. And he was pissing too.

She was telling him to. And he was like, oh, shit, okay. He's trying to fuck her. So he was like, I'll piss wherever you want me to. Sounds great. Is this for play? Awesome. What do we got going on?

Some four plate. Men are so easy. I'll put it wherever you want. We don't care. If they say take your dick out, we're like, sure. Sure. What are you doing with it? No problem.

Piss over there. Okay. We don't care. Can I put it in your mouth now? No, okay. Shit, I'll be over here. Not yet? Not yet?

Okay. That's worth it. I'm going to keep asking. Yep. Just ask every 10 minutes or so. Okay. I forget to bring it up. Is this working?

Is it working for you? So that's what she's doing. And this is the Blue Ridge, L.J. cherry log area is where she's doing this. So from 99 to 2001, she treated over 3,000 patients. Wow. There's a lot. She's very busy pumping. And there's only 800 people in the area. And that's two years. That's over two years. That's like five a day, right? Yeah, it's a lot. So she's seeing a lot of people and she's going out to them or they come to her sometimes. It depends.

she worked out of the medical offices in Blue Ridge and Ely J. And she lived in a cabin that she bought on Cherry Log Mountain right near the Appalachian Trail. So that's where she lives. It's a nice little cabin. She has a car. She lives alone. She's doing what she loves. And in April of 2001, she actually, her two-year thing that she signed up for is over.

So she can leave if she wants. But she decides to stay. She decides she likes it up here. And she thinks she's making a difference in these people's laws. lives in this area. So she decides to stay besides having no family or despite having no family or anything like that in the area. They had moved, I think, to Florida is where they end up later on. So by 2001, she's 30 years old. She's engaged to a man named Larry Flowers who lives in Rome, Georgia. And her plan was to start her own practice and marry Larry. There we go. And then that's how it works here.

which, I mean, she's got a whole thing going on here. Yeah. She's got her plan. Friday, October 5th, 2001. Donna and Sam Houston, okay? That's William's parents. They leave Cherry Log telling William they'll be back on the 8th of October. So that's Monday.

The weekend. We'll be back one day, long weekend. Now, this is the first time since his release from prison that, he's been alone. Oh, like had the house to himself. Imagine the whackin he's going to be doing all over the place. Well, at least for the next couple hours. Just insane.

Yeah, well, just, and then he'll, I feel like he'll have a lot stored up, maybe. You don't think there's going to be a burn that requires him to stop for a minute? Oh, maybe, maybe. But he's a, I don't know, he's got that, those like criminal horniness, that's a different kind of horniness. It just keeps coming and coming. It never goes away. I don't know. It's weird.

So this is what he does. immediately a series of robberies hit Cherry Log Mountain. Really? Immediately. Like the minute they left the mountain, all of a sudden there's a bunch of robberies being reported. And normally they don't have a lot of that around here at the time. Medical supplies, a shotgun, ammunition stolen from homes.

Well, there's two neighboring homes. Yeah. There's two of the checklist right there. He's got that going. Medical supplies weren't on there. But hey, we'll add that to the bottom. I didn't know I needed it. You know what?

This will come in handy. This first aid kit. Look at that. So later that weekend, Sunday, October 7th, 2001. Joanne is seen driving up Cherrylog Mountain toward her cabin, returning from a weekend in Rome with her fiancé Larry. Okay. She enters her home. We know her, she put her purse on the kitchen island.

We're positive of that. Okay. The next day, Monday, October 8th, 2001. She does not come to a Monday morning appointment she's supposed to be at. Okay. Then her fiancé Larry calls Mountain Medical because he hadn't heard from her. And he's been trying to get a hold of her. And they usually talk in the morning.

So he's like, where the hell is she? So the office sent an employee to her home to check on her at approximately 10.30 a.m. Go see what's up with Joanne. So a coworker and a real estate agent went to check on her. We'll see if she's home and see if she's maybe interested in selling her cabin. she's interested in upgrading. They went to check on her, and they found something horrible.

They found she's home, but she's very dead in her home. It's not good either. It's a scene, man. It's bad. She has been bound with cable wires. Raped, slashed, stabbed a whole bunch of times. This is not a scene you want to walk into and see.

This is a scene that, like, seasoned homicide detective would go, oh, Jesus Christ, I'm going to think about that one for a while. It's bad. It's real bad. Cable wire, you twist and there's no getting out of that. No, man. This is hard. Couldn't be a nicer person and they all know that too. So they're like, Jesus Christ, this is horrible.

The police are called and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent Jeff Branion processed the scene, took evidence including blood transfer patterns from a T-shirt that was consistent. with a knife being wiped on the fabric, like whoever stabbed her, then wiped the fucking blood off on her, which is just fucking awful. Not only that, her 32 caliber pistol is missing,

and her 1996 Black Ford Explorer is missing as well. Oh. So that's what's interesting. When her friend showed up, they didn't see her car, so they were like, oh, maybe she's not here. And then they found that.

So now, the investigation, they look far and wide, because they're thinking about who does she come and come contact with. Fuck, everybody in this area. Everybody. So many people, thousands of people. Three thousand and two years.

Yeah. So anybody could have developed an obsession or been pissed off that she didn't give them the exact care they wanted or they didn't get the drugs they wanted or whatever. They felt sicker. They felt sicker. It's her fault. You never know what it is. But then after they kind of close that circle a little bit here because they, you know,

okay, those people aren't it. That guy's 80. He probably didn't do it and all these different things. they end up realizing that basically like three cabins away is a registered sex offender who just got out of prison. Yeah. And they're like, huh, interesting. William LaCroix Jr. Let's take a look at him.

He's three, he's right there. He's three, like right there, walking distance, right there. Real close. Like, every time she drives in and out, they see each other. He sings it. Yeah. Yeah, this is a lot. The police had him classified as extremely.

dangerous, by the way, too. So they were like, well, his file looks like dog shit. Looks great for this, though. Yeah. So they say, we need to find him. They go to try to find him, and he's not around. Can't find him. Can't find him. What they do find, though, is his need to acquire list. Oh, he left that behind? Left that behind. So they said put out a, you know, everybody look for him of APB and a Bolo and all that shit. He's believed to be driving in 1996, Black Ford Explorer, Georgia Wildlife Tag, 50RJ7. And they believe he's headed to Alabama or Oklahoma. That's where they butcher opposite directions.

Well, no, it's west either way, but one is northwest and one is just west. So anyway, that's what they're thinking at this point. And that is October 8th that that happens. Okay. When Houston's supposed to come home? Yes, when they came home to cops coming to their house looking for their stepson because they left for two days. You're like, Jesus, we can't leave it all.

So October 11, 2001, he is neither in Alabama nor Oklahoma. Okay. He is in Minnesota by the Canadian border. How'd he get that far? He fucking got all the way up there with every cop in the

entire country looking for this car. And he's driving her car. Yeah. Well, at least has a bulletin in their computer while and he passed them all. Went right past it here. Wow. Gets to the checkpoint between the U.S. and Canadian border, and he noticed that Canadian authorities were checking all the cars.

Yeah. Because this is, you have to remember, a month after 9-11. Right. So security measures were completely different than any other time in history. Right now. Especially in any kind of border or airport or anything like that. It was like totally different. Anywhere where you're trying to traverse the world, they're looking at every checkpoint that they came.

Yeah. Absolutely. So William then turns around and tries to get back into the United States because he crossed over. He's in the no man's land. Not suspicious at all. No, no, no. That's like if there's a DUI checkpoint and you just pop a U. and get out of there.

I'm sure you're fine. Sure you just didn't want to wait in line too long. That's what it was, right? Sure you're in a hurry. Yeah, just in a hurry. You got to get home before babysitter charged you an extra hour. We got just the time is what the problem is. It's nothing to do with the booze.

That's just really the time. Ah, yeah. So at that point, U.S. officials ran a check on the tag and figured out, hey, look at this, stolen car. That stolen car that just made a U-turn. Because wanted for murder. So that's not good. No. They pull them over.

They pull them out. Inside the car, they find a treasure trove of evidence. Just everything you're looking for. A bloodstained knife. Uh-oh. Gotta have that. Didn't think to wash the knife off. Not even just give it a rinse so there's not visible blood on it.

Or throw it away sometime between Georgia and Canada. Canada. Anywhere. You could have tossed it in a fucking great lake on the way in the Mississippi God damn river. You name it. So many bodies of water you crossed. So many bodies of water. You've passed caves and dugouts and mountains.

Mountains. You've passed anywhere. Mineshaft. He's passed everything. Got it. Plastic cable ties. Oh. He's got those zip ties, essentially.

Shotgun shells. Boots. He got the boots. That's good. Food, water, ammunition. He's got all of it. He filled his list out. He did.

And two handwritten notes. He wrote, Why do you need to write shit down? Everybody stop doing it. Teenage girls, adult murderers, everyone stop writing everything down. What do you say? Okay, one of them was on a map, okay? On the map, he wrote,

please, please, please forgive me, Joanne. This is not good. Oh, yeah. Oh, he knows her name. She lives three houses away and she's very well known in the area. So, yep. You were an angel and I can. killed you. You couldn't have, here's my knife with her blood on it. Here's a note explaining what I did.

He wrote I killed you. Damn it. I killed you. Now I have to live with that and I can never go home. I am a vagabond and doomed to hell. Okay. Which is probably true. But the rest of it, Jesus Christ, self-serving. So then in a separate note, he planned on putting this in the car because he planned on ditching the car when he got across the border, I think. He wrote, please call the police and report this vehicle stolen. Thanks, the thief. The guy that did it. The guy that did it, just to please.

So that's what he wrote. He had two different notes. One for a dead woman who was never going to read it or get it. So you didn't need to write that down. So fun that he thinks that he's outsmarted anybody and that they don't already know it's stolen. No, please report this stolen. So that's what he's got on him. So they're like, you got a lot of spaining to do, oh, me.

This is a lot. So in the Cook County Jail in Grand Marius, Marius, whatever it is, Marias, Minnesota, he confesses in graphic detail. Really? He said, we got you dead to rights, man. You wrote, I killed you, literally, on a fucking piece of paper. You have the car of a dead woman. We have a note of you addressing said dead woman by name and then claiming.

claiming responsibility for the dead woman. Yeah. Oh, do we mention the bloody knife with her blood all over it? And then have her knife blood to prove that, to connect you to. What, what's he going to say? What does he want? He's got to say, you got me. Yeah.

What else can you say? What does he want in the confession? Is he asking for a deal? He just talks. He wants to talk. He describes everything. And here's what happened here. Okay, this is what he will tell.

He tells the police one story. This is what he'll tell a psychologist later. Okay. And this is everything in detail. And he's not trying to make himself look better. He's very honest about what he does, which is disturbing as fuck. So he said, I got out of prison. And then he moved in, he said, with his mother and Sam Houston and Blue Ridge there.

And, you know, on Cherry Logg Mountain. And he started commuting by motorcycle to the town of Marietta where he worked with his father. Really? That's a good influence for him. You really want him around his dad at this point in time. Jesus Christ. And he's just got a motorcycle as his mode of transportation. Yeah, a motorcycle, which is precarious in not only the Georgia heat, but the Georgia winter as well.

Right. That's a lot to do there. So he said he would pass Joanne's house every day and the two would usually wave to each other because they're neighbors. Okay. Pass somebody away to your neighbors. If you live in a very rural area, everybody does that. He said in early October 2001, he was convinced that the government was determined to put him back in prison. That's what he said.

He goes, as soon as October came, I just, I knew they wanted to put me back in federal prison. That's all they wanted to do. Meanwhile, they're given them. They told you they're not. They could have put him in prison the day he left that fucking office. Yeah. They could have said, send the marshals to his house, his probation officer, or parole officer, are going to send the marshals.

he's going back for a year, but they didn't. So they clearly weren't trying to put him away. They're trying to keep him out, and he's so stupid he fucking kept him. He's the one trying to go back. Pretty much. He said,

but that's where he, that's when he traveled out into the woods where he had hidden a cache of survival gear. Yep. On his list, that's where he hit a bunch of stuff in the woods. Yeah. On his way up to check on his cash in the woods,

you know, make sure it's still there. he passed Joanne's house and waved to her, but she didn't wave back. Okay. Okay. Again, this is a huge slight to a guy like that. Does he say, if she saw the wave, he doesn't say. Doesn't, she didn't wave back. That's all he knows.

He didn't wave back. So later, at his hiding spot in the woods, he heard the sound of car tires on gravel and turned to see Joanne driving toward him in her explorer, in her fordix. She's exploring. She's using the car to its fullest here. Just do what it was designed to do. That's it. So he said that she stopped and said, huh, huh, huh, through her half open driver's side window, then turned her vehicle around and drove away.

She didn't say hi. She didn't say what's going. She said, huh. And then turned around and left. Okay. So this freaked him out for some ways. She's on to me. On to me for being in the woods.

Right. Check it on my cachet. Yeah. You're allowed to be in the woods, first of all. So like, I don't know what he thought. She didn't catch him doing anything illegal. She just caught him in the woods. So it freaked him out, though.

So he began to focus on her and to fixate on her. Okay. Because he thinks that she has it in for him now. Uh-huh. Then he said, He was sitting there one night and it hit him. Why he knew her, he thought, in his head and why that they have some sort of connection. He figured it out.

She's his babysitter. That's Tinkerbell. I found her. Joanne is now Tinkerbell. Joanne is Tinkerbell. Here's the thing. He's a year older than Joanne. So that's a Pinkerville.

Impossible for her to be Tinkerbell. I mean, he doesn't know her age, I'm sure, or whatever. but he says that he was positive that she was Tinkerbell, the babysitter who sexually abused him. Oh, boy. Okay. So he said that he suspected that Tinkerbell had been a witch and that her sexual abuse had placed him under a spell. That's how they do it. Right.

Yeah, they put, it's not oral. It's you use your, your, sexually communicated. Yeah. Yeah, sexually communicated spells, obviously. Right. That's the thing you can catch chlamydia, sure. Herpes. Hexes, all sorts of things can be caught sexually.

And that spell explained the way he put it, quote, explained all the troubles and frustrations in his life. So everything that's happened to him up to this point is the fault of that babysitter's magic vagina and the way that she hexed him. And now he's found her. There she is. Okay. So you can imagine the machinations on this guy's head. at this point.

I'd be out of it too. He said he reasoned that Tinkerbell, Joanne, now it's Tinkerbell to him, had placed some kind of spell on him. She could also undo the spell. Okay. Yeah. The only person who can undo it is the person that did it. Right.

He said. So that was his, I mean, tough. Obviously, his plan is now to figure that out, right? So he, and according to this psychiatrist, he talked to, quote, he started to develop a plan that he needed to reverse the rolls on Tinkerbell. Reverse the curse. And due to her what she had done to him. Oh, that is not.

Way different. That is way. I was going to say, that is not what you had in mind. That is not a piano in the lake. What do we do? I don't know what that is. That's called revenge, man. Yep.

So he said he broke into her house to wait for her to get her to reverse the spell. Yeah. That's why he's doing this, right? He said he broke into the house, went inside to wait for her. He heard a car drive up, and he became nervous. Okay? Got real nervous when the car drove up. So he looked out the window and saw that it wasn't even Joanne.

It was some of her neighbors arriving at the cabin next door. Okay. So he continued to wait, and his stomach is just churning, he said, because he's just nervous now. And so he had to use the restroom. So he went and took a shit. in this lady's house. Gave himself diarrhea. He gave himself the shits because he's so nervous, okay?

So he goes and he shits. Now, what if she came home at that point? Right. Just open the door and heard a huge fart coming from her bathroom. Like, what kind of plan do you have, bro? If ever there's a sign that you're doing the wrong thing, that's the one. That's the one. Anything that gives you diarrhea, you shouldn't do that.

Either that or you're about to debut on Broadway or something. You're doing something amazing or you're doing something terrible, one or the other. Oh, boy. Like, if I was about to, like, blast off as, like, an astronaut, I might have to shit beforehand just to make sure, you know. So he gets done, I assume, cleans himself up. As he was coming out of the bathroom, timing is remarkable here. He heard another vehicle coming. Right.

Right. Wow. He's still buttoning his pants up. He hears another vehicle coming. So he went into the bedroom and could hear. Joanne approaching the cabin. Yeah. As she came in, he saw her

and he had a shotgun here. Yeah. Her shotgun, by the way. Right. Or no, this is the shotgun he brought. I apologize. He's got a shotgun and he smashes her in the back of the head with the gun. Okay. Hits her

in the head. Now when he does that, he accidentally discharges the shotgun as well. He shoots a shot off because he's probably got his finger on the trigger when he did it in the jerking motion. Terrible trigger discipline. Awful. Awful.

Now, luckily for Joanne, obviously that's the opposite way of the butt of the gun. Sure. It doesn't shoot her. It shoots into the wall. Also, good for Joanne. That was just a loud racket. Hopefully that gets some attention. Problem is it's the woods and people are constantly hunting and there's a lot of gunshots

in the woods and no one's going to call the cops for a gunshot on this mountain. Everybody talks themselves. out of reporting a gunshot. Absolutely. Maybe it wasn't a gunshot. Maybe it was a car back firing. Maybe it's just people in the woods. Somebody got themselves a deer.

Someone's shooting squirrels with a shotgun. The piss didn't work. Yeah, who knows? So, yeah, the piss didn't work. They're back. The hunters are back. So he shoots it into the wall. She falls to the floor after getting hit in the head with the shotgun.

He told her not to look at him. That was the thing. Hit her in the back of the head before she could see him and then said, don't look at me. However, he also had the collar of his, he had a combat uniform on. He had the collar of it pulled up over the bottom part of his face and the back of the collar pushed up around the back of his head over the top of his head so only his eyes were exposed. Yeah. With his shirt he did that, which is a pathetic.

Get a mask, you idiot. You know what I mean? What are you doing? That's a very menacing pose, though. Why not look at you then, though? If you've already taken all the steps. I guess because maybe because he's so goddamn tall and just around there you're going to get noticed.

Right. That's one thing that like, tall people do not blend in. We don't blend well at all. Like if people were looking for me, they'd find me. I stick my fucking head is sticking out. Outside of venues.

You could blend in. Outside of venues, people find us because we're together. Yep. Look at that. Tall and short, you son of a bitch. Look at the tall guy. He's got a little midget with him.

That's probably them. That's probably them. But a midget walking down the street. They just walk right past me. It's insane, but it's really hard. It's hard if you're like, you know, just tall to blend in. Anyway, so he said the conversation was minimal. He just kept telling her several times, you know what I want.

Oh, boy. And she was like, I don't know what you want, actually. I don't know you. I waved at you. You're the guy who lives, whatever. And he's like, no, you know what I want. And he's like, she's like, I don't. Now in his mind, what he said, he's talking to Tinkerbell, he thought, he said.

So he's like, you know what the fucking did. You know I want the curse reversed. Yeah. Now, meanwhile, there's no way in hell, even if it actually was Tinkerbell, that she would know who the fuck you were. Last time she saw you, you were eight. Right. You're six foot five now. We never hear from Tinkerbell ever again?

Tinkerbell never comes back. She is gone. But her damage is lasting. Oh, her damage is radiating out into this. poor woman's cabin. This is crazy. So she said, do you want money? Uh-huh. I'll give you, do you want money? Is that what you're after? Because he said, you know what I want? Money? And he said, nope, that's not it. And she's like, well, that's not good. I'm out of guesses. I'm out of guesses. He then used the plastic ties that he brought with him to tie her hands together. Okay. This is getting

very scary. He then tied her legs together. And then he started, as he started doing undoing her belt, she asked him, is this what this is? Like, is this what you're wanting? This is what you know what I want is? And he didn't say anything. So he said she cooperated with him as he took her pants off or down, I should say, because her legs are tied. Right. She said, he said that she only stated, not on the floor, please.

Okay. And so he picked her up and put her on the side of the bed. Uh-huh. He said he was trying to rape her. Right. but he couldn't get it up enough to rape her. Wow. So he asked her where she had some Vaseline in the house.

Okay. I don't know how that's going to make his dick any harder. No. So she told him where it was. Yeah. And he put some Vaseline on his dick and on her as well. Uh-huh. And then he was able to get more of an erection and proceed here.

He said during the act, They were both silence, silent at the time. When he was done, he got finished. And then he said, all right, now it's your turn to undo it.

Okay. Yeah. Now it's your turn. Undo it. There. I did that. That means I took that back. So now you have to undo it.

And she said, I don't know the fuck you're talking about. Yeah. What are you talking about? And he said, you know what the fuck I'm talking about. Don't act like you don't know. And she's like,

I don't know what you're talking. just tell me and I'll do anything you want. Obviously, look what I just acquiesced to just to try to get you the fuck out of my house so you don't kill me. Undo everything. Just tell me. Whatever you need, I'll undo it. And he kept saying, you know what you did. You know what you need to undo.

Do it right now. And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. So this turned into an argument. Oh, my God. Because she's like, please just tell me. And he's like, you know, you fucking asshole. Can I buy a vowel? Something.

He said, I'm getting pissed off is what he told her. You're starting to piss off. me off now. She was, she even said she was trying to appease him. She was trying to do anything possible, but wasn't complying with what he wanted, which was reversed the goddamn hex.

Take it off me. So he said that, he said that she said, I don't know what I did to, that you need me to undo. So then he put a new shotgun shell in a shotgun and threatened her. And she still didn't know what.

It wasn't helping. She doesn't know. You can put 10 guys. guns to her. She's not going to know. So then he found a cord from a carbon monoxide monitor and looped it around her neck. And he told her, do it or else. And she said, I don't know what to do. How terrifying is this?

This poor woman. This is horrible. At least if you know what somebody wants and if they're going to kill you, you can resign yourself. This is just confusing and horrible and terrifying. And you're just screaming to him that you don't know. And he's not. He won't tell you. He's not understanding.

No. So he started choking her to the point that she couldn't breathe. She started gasping. She grabbed at his pant legs. He said he then heard her start to urinate in her pants, on herself. And he let the cord go. And he told her, that's it. You can do it or I'll do it.

Okay. Again, what are you talking about? At that time, he said she was only making mumbling sounds because she just got being choked. So he pulled his knife out of its sheath, grabbed her head by her hair from behind, pulled her head back and said he, quote, cut her throat as hard as he could. Oh, boy. She went limp immediately, but he said he could still hear breathing sounds. He said he became frustrated at that point. Yeah.

Because he choked her and he cut her throat and he said he started to think, I can't kill him. this woman. She won't die. She's a witch probably. Oh, because, yeah, because they don't. So he walked out of the bedroom and looked out the window to see if anybody was around. See if that shot gruesome. So he was planning to go back

into the bedroom and shoot her in the back of the head with both barrels of the shotgun. That was the plan. Oh, my God. But when he went back into the bedroom, she wasn't making any sounds. She was just dead. Now, he left out in his description, stabbing her numerous times in the back.

slashing her. Yeah. Yeah, the throat slashing, but I mean he went to town on her back. Really? Yeah. So I think I don't know why he left that part out, but that was, I think, happened before he went out to check. And then came back. Does it remember it or?

I just decide, I don't know, just decided not to. Just deletes that. All right. Just deletes that out of the mix. Now, here's the thing. Okay. You would think this is a murder case. This is the state of Georgia murder case. the federal authorities are going to take over jurisdiction because they're going to call it a carjacking.

Oh, because of the theft of the explorer. Yes, and because of the explorer transported an interstate commerce using force resulting in death, the case is prosecuted federally under the carjacking statute, making it a capital case. Yeah. This was the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. Congress expanded the federal death penalty to cover murders committed during carjackings. This was when they were trying to be like tough on teenagers and gangs and all that horse shit in the 90s there. But being that he did steal the car afterwards, I guess it's in the in the, uh, that's going to be the, uh,

but Georgia should be able to, to prosecute that anyway, shouldn't they? Well, the federal authority supersedes the state authority on a case of, They want the case. They're getting it. It's one of those. And Georgia, I would assume, just based on the cost of things, would probably go, if you want a murder case, take it. What fuck do we need it for?

We don't have to house him in your own facilities. Yeah. Also that he's out on what I guess would be parole. Yeah. Because he didn't do all the time for the federal parole. That's another thing. That's another reason to get him. Yep.

So this act basically, Congress expanded the federal death penalty to cover murders committed during carjackings, although Georgia defense lawyers question whether it should cover a situation like this one. Yeah. One lawyer told the Atlantic Journal Constitution, this is purely a state crime that ought to be prosecuted in state court. Okay. It's interesting. Another lawyer here, Don Samuel and Atlanta lawyer who authors books specializing in criminal law, said, I would say that's not what Congress had in mind when it passed the carjacking statute.

Yeah, I don't think so. I think they mean, like, at a stoplight, Exactly, a carjacking. Right, an actual carjacking. This is a murder and then he stole some shit. We've had how many cases where the murderer then took the person's vehicle. The car always goes. None of them are federal carjacking cases.

The car's always gone. Yeah. Whether they go burn it or whether anything. So they said the federal death penalty statute was supposedly was passed to allow the federal government to prosecute interstate crimes. This is a stretch to even make it a carjacking. Never mind an interstate carjacking. There's a car theft involved, but it was not a jacking. Totally, exactly.

He said the carjacking statute makes it a crime when someone with intent to cause death or serious bodily harm takes a motor vehicle from the person or presence of another by force and violence or by intimidation. So their whole case would be his goal was to get the car and he did whatever he had to to get the car. Not that he wanted to kill her and she happened to have a car. Right. So that's all it is. But, I mean, he wrote in the letter that the car is the goal. He needed a car. Regardless of why he killed the woman.

His letter wrote, I'm going to steal cars and kill people in the interim to get new cars. That's what they're going to use. They're going to say that's what he was doing, not the other thing. So, I don't know. Usually in a carjacking, there's no rape involved. You know what I mean? It's usually they take your car and that's that. So in June of 99, the federal appeals court in Atlanta had issued a ruling that could help the federal prosecutors, though, in a case where a car was stolen from an employee of a Fuddrucker's restaurant in Dade County, Florida.

Poor fuck, that's what I just thought to. I just thought, you poor bastard. What a terrible life. Smelling like French fries walking out of fucking Dade County in the humidity. Jump in your car to your Dade County apartment. Oh, man. Jesus. The humidity will make that.

stink fucking hang on you too. The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals allowed the carjacking conviction to stand, even though the employee handed over his keys for the car that was sitting outside in the parking lot. Because it happened inside. A carjacking

victim, quote, must be sufficiently near to the vehicle for it to be within reach, inspection, or control and absent threat or intimidation to be able to maintain control of it. For a car to be within one's reach or control, it must be accessible.

So inside a cabin with it in the driveway really doesn't line up with that, to be honest with you. But it has to have been commandeered, not stolen. There's a difference between the two. Yeah, it's a different, it's weird. You have to bypass the owner

or occupant and driver to take the vehicle rather than just hot wiring and taken off with it. Exactly. That's just stealing it. Yeah. Yeah.

The carjacking has to be the owner is in control or possession of it and you took it. Now, this is kind of a different thing. entirely different. Entirely different. So her mom, by the way, this is Joanne's mom, does a really nice thing here. She used a $50,000 life insurance settlement that she got for Joanne and built a 1,000 square foot outdoor classroom in her hometown.

Wow. Which is really cool. She said her daughter loved the outdoors and she said over 3,000 kids have visited it. And Franklin? And it's in her area where she lives. Franklin, Tennessee. I think it might be Florida by now. I think she might have moved to Florida by now.

Yeah. But she built it in three months. And it's really nice and really interesting, by the way. There's an article that says, like a force of mother nature that can't be thwarted. This mother couldn't be distracted. She had a vision and a deadline. October 7, 2002, the anniversary of her daughter's death and could not be. be deterred. Janie's personal mission was clear, create some good out of the evil that fell,

that befell her beloved Joanne. This is something that she wrote on the website for the outdoor classroom. I'm beginning to believe, not hope, that Joanne is with me still. It seems that experiences take me to the cliff's edge, but if I don't give up and wait for an angel to carry me across the canyon, I can land in a place more beautiful than the one I left. That angel has got to be Joanne. Okay. Now, the Gilmer district attorney, by the way, who, I mean, like I said, not a lot of people in this county. No. How fucking old is this guy? He fell in the stairway of the county courthouse in L.J. And in March of 2003, before this trial starts, and it left him a quadriplegic. That's horrible. Poor bastard. Roger Queen is his.

name, you poor bastard Roger. Just like snapped his neck? Apparently down in the courthouse. Wow. Holy shit. He remains on a ventilator. Oh, Jesus. But says he wants to participate in the trial and plans to be there.

How about pass it off to somebody else? Take it easy. Wow, that is insane. Committed. Yeah. And the newspaper article also said that he, that the killing has the markings of a classic state death penalty case, an alleged vicious slang during the course of a felony, but it was approved as a federal death penalty case by the Department of Justice.

Now, in jail, he still is fucking off. Still doing it. Oh, he's doing crazy shit. People witnessed him. Two Lumpkin County law enforcement officials witnessed William LaCroix escaped from his cell in the Lumpkin County Detention Center at certain times. Officer Aaron Welch, a Lumpkin County detention officer, testified that LaCroix and other inmates were using a catwalk in the detention center's drop ceiling as a, quote, virtual highway between male and female cells. They were using it to go over the walls to go into the female side and vice versa. They could get behind the walls and do it.

Yep. Officer Christopher Holman of the Sheriff's Department said that in one incident, two female inmates, were found under a bed in William's cell. Imagine that. He got two? This is what I'm saying. This is fucking ridiculous. He's having threesomes in prison.

This is ridiculous. No. That is no. You're not no. I won't allow that. Shouldn't even be able to fuck one person. He could fuck two. Well, maybe if they have a dick.

You shouldn't be able to fuck who you want to fuck in prison. That's what it is. That's not fair. That's just not fair. Imagine that, too. They're coming and he's like, hide. You're in a prison cell. Where are you?

Just go under the bed. They won't notice. You're getting ridiculous. He got two women beneath a single bunk. It was like a single bunk. You'll be fine in there. Yeah, they must have been thin anyway. That's all I can imagine.

Tiny gals. It had to be small. In a separate incident, they inspected his cell and found that he had created a hole in the shower wall that was large enough for a man to sneak through. That's a big hole. It's a big hole. In the crawl space, where they went, he found a note, they found a note written on the wall that says, So well, have a great day explaining to the marshals about me.

Thanks for the food, smokes, and women, LeCroix. And then he said, P.S., had a great time here, but sorry, I won't miss you. He loves writing notes, this guy. And he left a goodbye note, and then he still didn't, he still didn't escape. I think he was planning on it pretty damn soon, I would hope. Yeah. So, yeah, that's not good. So he's going to be charged with failing to escape to another shit.

LaCroix signed his name to it. LaCroix, he signs it. Yeah, bitch. Like, we didn't know who the fuck did this. So the defense, he's got a defense team and they're going to try to mount a defense team. They gather extensive records on La Croy's background, school records, military records, records relating to his earlier criminal convictions, prison records, police reports, everything they can and try to find something to get out of this. They discovered that all, they delivered all these records to a Dr. Michael Hilton, who's a forensic psychiatrist.

That's the guy he told all that shit to him earlier. And this is the attorneys hired this guy in March of 2003 to conduct an evaluation. The attorneys never planned to call Dr. Hilton as a witness at trial. Okay. His evaluation was to be a test run, see what he thinks of him, so the defense team could see what a psychiatric evaluation of LaCroix would reveal before making any final strategic judgments. Oh. I want to see what they got. In case the prosecutor orders this, we'll do a mock one first. Yeah, exactly.

We'll just see how it goes because if we don't want that to be our defense strategy and every shrink says he's fine. Sure. It's not going to work. So they said the idea behind Dr. Hilton was to see what would happen. What kind of results would get in an evaluation if we just did a strategic, a straight evaluation? We were going to see what results he came back with and then proceed with the rest of the case. So Dr. Hilton met with him in prison for four and a half hours and prepared a set of reports for the defense counsel. One report related Dr. Hilton's conclusion that William was competent and that he could not present an affirmative defense of not guilty by the reason of insanity.

He said, I can't get on the stand and testify to him. Yeah. So this guy has some actual scruples where he's not just going to go, what do you pay in me? I'll get up there and say anything you want. Another report summarized Dr. Hilton's psychiatric evaluation reflecting his diagnoses and professional observations. As the defense team considered all of this, the problem is there's a rule called rule 12-12.2B of the federal rules of criminal procedure, which requires a rule. defendant to notify the government in advance of trial if the defendant plans to introduce expert testimony on mental health issues at either the guilt or penalty phase of the trial.

Okay. So if he elects to introduce the defendant elects to introduce expert evidence bearing on a mental health issue, the defendant must make the results and reports of the defendant's expert available to the government. Right. And the defendant himself may be required to submit to an evaluation by the government expert as well. So this is, you're putting them out there for a lot if you do this. So they, all the attorneys agreed that they were very scared of a government evaluation. That's a, the lawyer said it, quote unquote, very scared of a government evaluate.

They're going to say he's fine, just a huge asshole. Huge, gaping asshole is what he is. Terrible person. God. They said the, in short, they said that the defense team made a decision to not, to not have LaCroi evaluated and stuck with all the way through. Nonetheless, the attorneys recognize that some information in Dr. Hilton's report would be useful in mitigation because they're going for the death penalty if he is found guilty. The evidence of childhood sexual abuse might arouse sympathy from a jury and offer a

mitigating explanation of the crime. Yeah. The trick was finding a way to introduce the mitigating aspects without also opening the door to a wealth of the aggravating information from their experts report. Sure. How do we, how do we get on that very, how do we balance this? Yeah. How do we balance on that very narrow cherry log? How do we do it?

One might call it a catwalk. A little bit of a catwalk. So they have a different strategy. They plan to introduce Dr. David Lysak as a teaching expert on the relationship between childhood sexual abuse and criminality and men. Oh? So there's going to be two strategies. Yeah, they're going to bring in a social worker who worked with him beforehand.

And so it's not a current court evaluation to talk about the molestation. Then they're going to bring this guy in just to talk about the subject of getting molested. Okay. So this is interesting. The doctor, a clinical psychologist, an associate professor of psychology at the University of Massachusetts in Boston, was known to the attorneys as perhaps the nation's preeminent expert on child sexual abuse of males. That sounds like a miserable thing to become an expert. I cannot imagine having to hear that.

That story over and over every day. Every fucking day. Too much. Instead of evaluating LaCroy himself, triggering the reciprocity provisions of 12-2, Dr. Lysak wanted to, was to review a documentary record of LaCroix's life drawn from his state prison records, his pre-sentence report from 1995 before he went to federal prison, his counseling records from prison, and Dr. Hilton's report. In front of the jury, Dr. Leesak would explain that individuals who experience childhood sexual abuse experience significant psychological problems later in life and that these problems can be especially acute in men who are abused as children leading to an elevated risk of later criminal behavior.

I want to know so much more. Dude, wow. So the testimony would provide a backdrop for the jury against which the defense lawyers hope to introduce evidence of his childhood abuse. that are trying to Trojan horse this fucking evidence in here. Dr. Gary Gannal, a psychological consultant for the Georgia Department of Corrections, who evaluated LaCroix in prison following a suicide attempt, had been told by LaCroix about physical abuse at the hands of his father and sexual abuse from Tinkerbell.

Sure. Another doctor, Dr. Marty Carlson, a clinical psychologist from the Bureau of Prisons, had also seen LaCroi when he was incarcerated and heard him report physical abuse by his father and sexual abuse by Tinkerbell. Finally, the defense retained Jan Vogelsang, a clinical social worker, to conduct wide-ranging social and psychological evaluations of LaCroix and his family. Because this isn't like technically a psych evaluation.

It's an evaluation of his life. Vogelsang would say that aspects of William's childhood put him at special risk of criminality as an adult, including a history of. of mental illness in his family, troubled relationship with his father, and a generally dysfunctional family environment. Yeah. They said by combining Dr. Leesack's teaching testimony with the factual testimony of Vogelsang and the doctors, the defense team hoped they could replicate the helpful aspects of Dr.

Hilton's report, meaning the inference was that his crime was a product of abusive and dysfunctional childhood. Or as they put it more bluntly, that Mr. LaCroix was dead. damaged goods because of what he suffered in childhood, and that might explain why he would do something so awful. That's the way his lawyer put it. Quote, unquote, all fucked up. I mean, was his, does his allegation of the Tinkerbell thing, does it lean to grooming,

that it was a systematic and over and over event, or was he just, did he have sex with a more grown woman more than once? It's still a teenager. It's still a child. It's still crazy. At eight, that'll damage you no matter what because you don't know what the fuck just happened. But it was the kissing game. So that's grooming for God knows how long.

To a single event. Then the oral sex. Okay. Then the actual intercourse. So it's systematic grooming. Yeah. It's definitely systematic grooming. It's not great.

But I mean, you can't kill nurses because of that. You're not allowed to do that. That's no good. So the prosecution, their key evidence is semen, blood pattern, blood. blood spatter, they have his semen for Christ's sake. Yeah. Blood spatter patterns, including an FBI agent's opinion that the stain on his shirt came, or on her shirt came from wiping the bloody knife, which is kind of more than an opinion

if you look at it. You can see the imprint of the goddamn knife. Yeah, if it's a strip of blood the size of the blade of knife, it's probably from that. And at the very tip of it, it comes to, you know, a point like a knife. That's the other thing about it. Yeah. So also the cable ties, the murder knife, the shotgun, the crime scene details, his extremely detailed confession. Right.

There's a bit of evidence they have here. Yeah, that's why there are only chances they're going for mitigating evidence in the penalty phase. They know he's going to get found guilty. They know. There's no way around this, yeah. No, they even have the 1991 evidence noting planning for robberies to rape robin pillage and a hit list. Right. Now, the defense is going to say, well, that was from 10 years earlier.

So you can't say his goals were the same. In other words, to get that car. Sure. Yeah. That was his goal 10 years ago, not now. Yeah, that's one thing you can say. However, the roadmap is there and what happened is there. And they kind of lay right on top of each other.

All right there. Yeah. You can't avoid it. No. You just can't. They said his hit list, his evasion tactics. It's all admitted under federal. rule of evidence 404B, which if you'll watch trials, you'll hear that quite often,

404B shit, to show intent, absence of mistake, M.O., and identity. The court ruled it was not too remote accounting for the incarceration, and its probative value outweighed prejudice. They said if he wasn't in prison for 10 years, I would say it was too remote because he had 10 years to do all this shit and didn't, so that wasn't his goal. But he did that and then went right to prison. Right. So who knows when he got out, he was just continuing.

he did in 91 then. That's the way the judge put it, which again, a bit of a stretch, but fine. It's there. The defense objected to the 1991 evidence and sought a lesser included offense instruction on simple carjacking without the death result, but the judge refused both, finding the evidence only supported capital murder or acquittal, one of the two. Death penalty, crime, or walk free. And a jury's got to sit in a room, take all that evidence and go, we either let him go or we

kill him. Let him go or kill him. Or I guess life without you could do also. Okay. That's there too. If you find him guilty of the capital murder, it's not just a death penalty, but that's the option. So LaCroy's trial began on February 17, 2004. The defense attorneys seized on the botched burglary defense. That's their new defense. He was just there to burglarize the place. She came in, freaked him out, never planned this. Yeah. So how could he plan to jack the car too? Right. It wasn't even there. The man was shitting. He was shitting for God's sake here. they argued that LeCroy just meant to, and this isn't even, this is during the guilt phase, this is during trial. So they're not saying he's innocent.

They're saying he merely planned to rob her home like he had done to several other homes and didn't kill anybody. Yeah, that's a great point. But panicked when she caught him in the act and murdered her on impulse. They put it to the jury later on that the whole episode was not a carjacking, but an irrational criminal act in the middle of a burglary. The reason for this, it's very strategic, is the botched burglary defense, they say in this court document, is jurisdictional. The case was only in federal court because the government had charged him with carjacking, which in turn required the federal government to prove that LaCroix killed her with the intent of taking her car. So they're trying to cut that off. That's their intent.

They say the, yeah, that's what they're doing. So they say he only later informed or later formed the intent to take her car as a means of escape. but never meant to because if he didn't kill her, he wouldn't have to flee. Yeah. That's the way they're looking at it. So what was he going to do? Take her car, drive it two cabins over and park in his driveway.

I suppose. You're like he wouldn't install it. The robbery's a crazy story too because he's got a motorcycle. Yep, he's got a motorcycle. Very difficult to steal things on a fucking motorcycle. True. But he was stealing handheld things that he could walk two houses over. Okay, so he could just walk at home, I guess?

He came with, he came with Zet. tip ties and a shotgun. Yeah, that doesn't scream taking a TV. Robbery. Yeah. Nope. That screams. If someone comes, they're going to get some shit here. So they said that then the federal jurisdictional hook would be absent and LaCroy would evade

a federal conviction. That's what they're going for. The jurisdictional argument was unsuccessful, though. They're not into it, none of these people. So the verdict comes in unsurprisingly. And actually, it is kind of surprising because if you look at it from a legal standpoint, carjacking is a stretch. It really is.

It sure in the fuck is. It is. And nobody wants to kick this guy in the dick more than us. This is not to defend anybody. Joanne was a wonderful person that did not deserve any of this. Nothing.

Not even a fucking drop of this. She wasn't involved with this guy. She didn't. There's no like, well, I mean, some people you're like, well, I mean, they were in a relationship and that person at least had the responsibility of being around a person like that.

Not that that's a good excuse for murder or anything like that. But she waved at the guy a couple of times. Like, this is asinine. And there's also no excuse for utilizing childhood abuse to further injure people and cause mayhem and harm. Especially to rape them. Right.

It's the, it's the alien Wernos defense, too, of like, I'm sure she was raped. I'm sure she's been tortured in her life. A shitload. That's why she ended up where she was. Right. But you don't get to kill people. You can't. You can't.

No, it's one of those things where with her, you go, well, it's understandable how she might get to there, but we can't have you on the streets like this. Sorry, I mean, you're going to jail. Jay Cee, by all reports, was horribly treated by his father. Oh, yeah, yeah, terribly. You don't get to rape and murder little boys and bury them under your house. It's not allowed to do it. Just not allowed to do it. You can't do it.

Just not. And it's a crazy. It's such a weird world, isn't it? And it's a wild stance to take the stage. Say, don't rape and kill. just because it's weird, right? I mean, I get it. The world is torturous, but don't be allowed.

Still not allowed to kill anybody. Just not. So, wow. Now, they find him guilty on all counts. Yeah. Obviously. Everything. Okay.

And it's hard. Federal trials have like a 96% conviction rate or 98%. The whole system is set up against you in the federal trial world. It is interesting how deep their pockets are to get really great. Great attorneys. That's the thing, too. There's unlimited funds. It doesn't stop.

No. I mean, if he went to the state level, that's Gilmer County. How much money you think a county that has 31,000 people in it has? And how good do you think the state's attorney in that county is? If he was good, he gets off the ventilator. I'll let you know. I'm not positive. That's what I'm saying.

It's kind of hard. His body is real weak. Sorry. Yeah. I don't know what's going on with his mind, but he certainly can't navigate steps. That's a fact. But if he was worth his fucking muster, he'd be down at Atlanta. Probably.

Well, think about what the appeals costs of a death penalty case would be for a county like that. If he could take the brunt of three, four steps, he'd be down there. The four guys. He'd be in a bigger county. This poor, we're sorry. Poor fucking guy. He did nothing wrong except bounce off of his stairs. No.

This poor guy fucking moves by going, I won't make in fun of him. I feel terrible now. That's awful. Poor bastard. He moves the chair like I drink a son. Jesus. Yeah.

Fuck, man. Oh, I kind of hope he's dead just to expect him as I feel bad. I feel real bad making fun. I feel like a dick now. But I mean, we're, we're, we're, you got to understand. We're tiptoeing through a mind field of child rape and other rape and murders and nice women getting their throats cut for no fucking reason. We got to look for something here. At least there's a brittle prosecutor we can destroy.

Yeah, it's fucking good. He's not worth the shit. Let's talk about him. Wow. So they're all waiting for the, they're waiting for the sentencing to come back. Casey, the older brother there. Just going to ask about him. Casey, he said that he was trying to rationalize and trying to prepare himself to help his mother.

He said that William took an angel from the mountains. He said, this is the mom, Janie. She says, Joanne always wanted to help the underserved. So she said, you know, she did. This is that when they're talking about, you know, just the whole thing and what she's about. And during a tense moment earlier in the trial, Casey, the brother, left the court. courtroom to find peace in the North Georgia Mountains. Oh, boy.

He went off. He's a hydrologist, a hydrologist with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. What does he? Builds hydraulics and shit? I guess. That seems like a smart guy. You'd have to be for that, which I mean, she's super smart, so I wouldn't he be. Or does he make water?

I don't know if he makes equipment that makes water or helps with equipment, whatever. But the Army Corps of Engineers gets shit done. They're going in to do something. It gets done, period. They'll make water where there's no fucking water. Yeah, they'll make a bridge across an ocean. Right. They're insane.

So he rode, I guess, he works in Tennessee. He wrote a bicycle from Helen to the top of Brasstown Bald, which is George's highest point. The time alone was to reflect on his sister here. She said as children, they were always together, playing, playing soccer, having common friends. They're only a year apart. And he said, I want to leave the world a better place. He said, for almost a month, his mother had joined him waiting to see about the death penalty. And he said that, quote, he has not shown remorse.

Right. I was hoping that the jurors would put him to death. He just has shown no remorse. He doesn't care. Sentencing comes around. Okay. The government's case in chief here is victim impact statements from her family and friends testimony regarding his convictions in the early 90s. and testimony regarding his conduct while incarcerated.

Yeah, he's planned to escape. He's fucking people in prison. He's having a great time. Since the time he's 17, he's been a piece of shit. And they're going to emphasize that he tried to escape because that's part of the death penalty is future dangerousness. If you have him in a Supermax prison and say, well, he's just going to be in there. You can't say he's future danger. But if you say he's an escape artist, now he's a future danger.

He wrote a love letter and a goodbye note. To the jailers. Yeah. One of the guards, or COs, whatever, testified about the catwalk and the female prisoners and all that, which must have been fun for the jury to hear about. Hey, this is entertaining. They found the hole in the shower. They told them about the note, all that. The defense strategy was not to call additional mental health experts, just Dr. David Lassick, Lysak, as the teaching witness, and to avoid the battle of the experts and prevent governmental rebuttal from this. basically. So they didn't. They do all of this. They present other mental health evidence. They seek clarification from the judge about what questions could be put to his former psychiatrist without

triggering that rule, basically. Where's our, how far can we go here? Can judges give legal counsel? Like, I guess they have to. It's not legal. That's more of, yeah, that's more of. How do we keep this from being a mistrial and how do we keep this from being retried and thrown out on appeal? That's it. That's, that's. the thing, too. The judge doesn't want that either. Right. You got to keep it between the lines for both sides. Yeah. And that's where the jury leave the room and we have an hour where we all argue about it. This is the type of shit they do, basically. The judge told them that the witnesses were permitted to testify about fact matters related to them in meetings with LaCroi, but could not testify about psychological testing, results, diagnoses, or opinions without triggering the rule and the rebuttal testimony. So they called Dr. Gary Gannal, who said that he talks about the suicide attempt in state prison. The doctor said about the troubled childhood, the federal prison, molested by Tinkerbell. The social worker testified at length about her interviews with LaCroix family and friends,

where she compiled as part of which she called a biopsychosocial assessment. Okay. Jesus. And testified about family growing up without limits and boundaries, gambling, the areas of money, ready availability of weapons, poorly supervised children around suicidal family members, cousins continuing to have sex with each other, engaging in sexual behaviors that were sometimes almost right in front of their parents. It gradually escalates. Yeah. The male members being, you know, if it weren't for sex, women would have a bounty on their heads, talking about his dad having a gun to his mom's head and taking the gun. and all that kind of thing.

It was all very relatable up until the cousin fucking. And then everything after that gets so much worse. That's totally different thing once we get into just rampant cousin fucking all over the county. In the open. In the open. Now, in cross-examination, the social worker said her report covered Williams' background up to 1991 and did not include the time of Joanne's murder. She also testified that LaCroix did well in school,

but no member of LaCroix's immediate family remembered a female. babysitter named Tinkerbell or knew that LaCroix had been molested. But after his release from federal prison in 2001, LaCroix's mother and father had opened up their homes to try to, you know, whatever. It happened because he told people back then. Okay. Back before. He didn't come out with this after the murder.

This was something. He was telling psychologists. Did he fucking imagine it? I don't think so because he was telling psychologists this from the beginning. Now, he might have come up with that when he was 17 as a story, but it doesn't. It's not likely, probably. It sounds like they were poorly supervised. Did she have a tinkerbell nickname that only he and her knew?

You know what I mean? Maybe, or that's what the kids called her. I'm not sure. And we'll talk about Chad in this. Chad's role is going to be diminished greatly, as we'll talk about. So after the government rested, they called us a variety of mitigation witnesses to rebut the suggestion that he had been a threat to others in prison or that he had attempted to escape. Some of the witnesses had been incarcerated with him and testified that he had been pleasant and peaceful.

A retired Bureau of Prisons official testified as an expert on the security of federal prisons and said that a person convicted of his crimes would be held in a maximum security facility, which escape would be not happening. Very difficult. Very difficult. The jury was instructed on the future dangerousness, which is conditioned on finding a risk of escape beyond a reasonable doubt, and weighed the aggravating circumstances. circumstances against the mitigating. LaCroix also called a series of friends and family to testify about his good character. Jesus. His mother, Donna, took the stand, but she got so emotional she was unable to go forward.

She just said that she just asked the jury for mercy. That's all she could show. She feels guilty. I'm sure she does. Who wouldn't? I'd feel terrible. So here's his lawyer's closing argument. Okay.

Says, quote, and I think, again, I think if you look at, look at his history, you'll see what the family history, what Jan Fogel song, or Jan, I guess, because it's a woman, Jan Fogel song. And what Dr. Carlson, I think, more importantly, shows you is that you have someone who has a basic moral fiber. His entire childhood through that divorce, he was a good kid. He was doing well in school. He sought out ROTC. It's in the writings. He seeks out ROTC because it gives him something that he's missing, those boundaries that they just, that there was a lack of. He seeks it out on his own. He knows that ROTC is healthy for him. It has discipline, builds of self-esteem, and the self-esteem that is in the pits. And you know that he has virtually

no self-esteem. And what does he attribute that to? The babysitter, to the sexual abuse he suffered as a child. And the government may, Mr. Burby made a big deal yesterday of one of the witnesses about how he never described a child molestation to anybody. He didn't tell anybody. His family didn't know about it. Come on, this is 2004. You know, we all watch TV. If we haven't read books about it, why do we have all these priests

that are now being accused of sexual abuse for things they did 20 years ago? Because children don't talk about it. True. For whatever reasons, whatever happens, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why would he be talking about sexual abuse by a teenager while he's in therapy

with Dr. Carlson? He's not in therapy to get out of jail. He's not in therapy to cut his sentence short. He has no benefit to gain from the therapy or the drug abuse program that he was involved in in El Reno, except self-improvement or to relieve himself. Learn how to deal with his anger and get beyond his anger so that his life will be better emotionally. There's no motive to lie about the babysitter.

And he's talking about the babysitter in 92 when he's talking about the babysitter in 99. But it's a significant event because it robbed him of his self-esteem. That's the impact it had on him. We all know from what is written, what he's written. Okay. Now, the jury finds some mitigating and some aggravators here. They find that all of the eligibility factors and all of the statutory and non-statutory aggravating factors exist. He intentionally killed her, intentionally inflicted serious bodily harm that resulted in death.

The statutory aggravators were that he committed the murder in an especially heinous, cruel, and depraved manner. and then he committed the crime after a substantial planning and premeditation, which I don't know if that's true, but substantial. So you could take the word substantial out. A lot. A lot. Convincing a amount. I don't see that happening.

But there was more than a day because I think it started from that woods when he saw her in the woods. That was the day before? That was like a couple days before. It was that week. The non-statutory aggravating factors were that LaCroix would be a future danger to the lives and safety of others that he caused injury, harm, and the loss to the victim's family. Now, by statute, they only needed to find one aggravator to impose the death penalty. Now, the mitigators, his conduct was appropriate during his 10 years in prison, besides the fact that he tried to escape and kill himself.

Sure. He was subjected to emotional and physical abuse as a child, grew up in an unstable and violent environment, had been exposed to harsh and difficult prison life. He was a kind and loving grandson, son and brother and friend. He's shown himself to be a person capable of kindness, friendship, and generosity, that he was deeply tormented after his fiancee got an abortion. I don't know when that happened, but somewhere in there, that in prison he had helped other inmates and participated in counseling and that he would like to do well in the prison environment and that executing him would cause his family grief and that he spent the first 18 years of his life in an abusive household and another 10 in prison. Is that mitigating? Well, it's mitigating factors. Now, two jurors found that LaCroy expressed remorse and six, so half the jury believed he was molested as a child.

Six didn't. So they deliberate for a full day and they come back with you, sir. May fuck off death penalty. Oh, what? Really? Oh, yeah. They're getting him a death penalty. They're death at them up here.

I guess life. I heard you went life. Yeah. Death penalty. Wow. Yeah. So Joanne's mother, Janie, said that I have no, I had no idea who I was or what I believed anymore. I set out on a journey of self-discovery.

I'm so glad that Joanne mattered to this world and that this man won't be hurting anybody else. So 2006, the appeals start, as you know. This is their own appeals of fucking shit here. So it's for the sufficiency of evidence for carjacking, admission of 1991, bad act evidence, jury instructions. All of these appeals are rejected. Really? And the United States Supreme Court denies to look at it. Really?

Absolutely. So there's more appeals here. He tries to use several complaints here. One, that the court ruled that he and other plaintiffs, there was a court case here that happened. and the government's plan to use pentobarbital without FDA approval, proper labeling, or prescriptions was illegal under the food and drug and cosmetic act. In the use of the death penalty? And I completely agree with this, by the way. You can't just go get something.

They literally will not tell you where the drugs come from. We need to know every bit of information from start to finish and the expiration date of it. When it was made, who put it in a bottle, everything, because we need a chain of, of custody here, whereas they won't tell you who will make it because the companies that make it don't want to be labeled. Shit hammered in the public when they actually say they're making it. So basically, there is no, they could literally go out on the street and go, hey, man, you got that bottle and get it and nobody would know any better.

That's crazy. That's the same as grabbing a dude on the street that is down with murder and putting them in as the firing squad guy. Yeah, exactly. You have to. Yeah. How about you? This is great.

Can't do that. Yeah. So that's pretty weird. So they said that because he was sentenced in Georgia, the protocol clashed with Georgia law that demands two physicians be present to officially pronounce death. Yeah. So the federal protocol doesn't guarantee that. So he's going on all these different factors. 2008, he petitions the district court to vacate his death sentence.

The claim is two elements here. Now he's saying his counsel's performance was deficient. They were so bad. Which is going to be tough because that's a strategic decision they made to try to circumvent the federal carjacking things. You can't really get off on that. That's not bad lawyering. It's a strategic decision, which that doesn't count for an effective assistance. And you're on board with every strategy decision they make.

That's the other thing. And the judge asks you a million times. Are you okay with this? Do you want them to do this? They always ask you a thousand times. Plus, the defense must show that the deficient performance prejudice. the defense. They say, no, it didn't. Okay. 2008, his brother Chad, remember Chad?

He said they went on different routes. Chad is a Georgia State trooper. Whoa. So you can't get more one or the other, because that's what happens. Above board and below board. There they are. He was a trooper first class badge number 744. He worked the crime suppression unit out of Atlanta, joined the force in 2008. He has a wife, named Keisha and two sons. Wow. So he built a life for himself. He's doing great.

December 27th, 2010 and 11 p.m. Chad's on duty. No. There's a guy named Gregory Favors, a habitual offender with 19 previous arrests who actually should have been in jail that very day. Here's his 19 arrest. They date back to when he was 17.

Here we go. Arrested for drug violation in 1998 when he was 17, sentenced to five years probation. Another drug violation. violation for an incident that occurred just one month later, according to court documents. He sentenced to five years probation again to run concurrent with the previous order, so no change. Arrested in 2000 on charges of carrying a pistol without a license, but uses an alias, Derek Allen, and is sentenced to state court in state court to 12 months probation.

Because they didn't know who he was. He has aliases all over the place. He was charged seven years later with drug trafficking and possession of marijuana, but the case was dead docketed. reports, records indicate that he was to be re-indicted, but we don't know if it ever happened. October 6, 2007, he said to be in possession of cocaine, possession of a firearm during a committing of a felony, and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. That's a bad guy. Sentenced to five years probation. What?

January 14th of this very year, what is this, 2008? Where is this? Yeah. He, a criminal warrant states that he was charged with possession. of cocaine, marijuana, and a firearm during the commission of a felony and use the name Derek Allen again and a social security number belonging to another person. Oh, my God. In an attempt to conceal his true identity, this leads to a plea deal where he pleaded guilty

to forgery in the first degree in his sentence to. I'm going to give you a guest to him. Some probation, James. Five years probation. That's right. That was followed. Really building my case to put this guy in prison. You think a little bit?

They're trying to build it. That was followed by two more arrests in Atlanta. June 25th he was sentenced to 30 years in prison. Okay. But is only ordered to spend 60 days of that in jail, the rest on probation. What is that? 30 years probation. Now, this day that we just talked about, favors was free on bond for felony charges of criminal attempt to enter an auto, possession of tools for the commission of a crime, cocaine possession and two counts of obstructing a belief.

officer. Okay. He failed to appear in court that morning. That morning. That morning. He had used other aliases over the years, which may be the reason why they couldn't identify all of his crimes and get it all connected. Okay. So Chad tries to pull Greg over for a broken tail light. Or headlight, as seen it five different times, five different, ten different places. An illumination marker on a vehicle. Something on the car. It's a Mazda 6. Okay. So LeCroy tries to pull him over. Favor speeds off from Bolton Road near the I-285.

LaCroix chases him for eight miles. Wow. Until he crashes into a mailbox. Who does? Favor does. Crashes into a mailbox. His car on an embankment with the driver's side door wedged into a brick mailbox. Can't get out.

He's fucked. So the patrol cars dash cam. shows his brother Chad here approaching the Mazda and he's shot in the neck as he approaches the Mazda. The guy shoots him from the car. Shoots him in the neck. Fatal shot. Kills him. Wow. Two little kids

pulling a guy over for a broken tail light. Jesus Christ. Just because this scumbag doesn't want to go to jail. He died in route to Grady Memorial Hospital at 38 and, whoa, it gets better. After he shot and killed, this guy. Favors got his way out of the car and then jumped in the his car and drove off in the cop car. He took the cop car. Holy shit. Did they put him in jail for this one? I can't believe I have to ask. It's five years probation.

And then the police spotted the car abandoned and caught him after a foot chase. He is sentenced to life without parole. Idiot. Yeah, he had dried blood on his hands and they saw him throw a gun on top of an apartment building. Unbelievable. Well, he ran. Now, this is a lot. So, yeah.

So Chad's wife said, we're happy to know Mr. Favors will be behind bars until his dying day. We're also sad that this day happened because a man decided to kill Chad. 2014, now off of Chad. 2014, Williams attorneys argue for sympathy for the LaCroix family because his brother Chad, A upstanding Georgia state trooper was murdered. Please don't put the family through any more suffering. They've already lost.

They have no more sons left. He's all they have left. It's a wild swing in the dark, but all right. Hey, it's worth a shot, right? July 2019, the resumption of federal executions after a 17-year moratorium. LaCroix receives an execution date. He then tries to go to the president for clemency saying that the pain and sorrow felt by the LaCroix family at potentially losing two sons is unimaginable.

Right. It's denied. Okay. So then there's more legal wranglings. His execution scheduled for July 31st, 2020. His legal team mounted last ditch challenges, including arguments over federal execution protocols, compliance with Federal Death Penalty Act, and the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, as well as COVID-19 related concerns.

Of course. He's throwing anything at the wall. I don't want the doctor to get sick for killing me. He could get sick, then what? What if I get sick? Then what? So they noticed that they set his execution date for September 22nd, 2020, more than three weeks later. Then they move to postpone it again.

It doesn't work. They try to get a stay, but it's not really a stay. They want a delay of 20 days. Yeah. Notice. So people, it's a big message. I'm on the ends of my seat, James. September 22nd, Supreme Court denies everything.

Oh, boy. September 22nd, 24th. 2020 is execution day. Yeah. He has a spiritual advisor, a sister Batista, who said, they asked what, what's he like? And she said, he said, you know, once we are not and then we are and then we're not. He was reflective. He didn't seem agitated.

He said the dumbest thing ever. Yeah. Last meal time. Oh, boy. How much peaches did he eat? Not at one. Probably all peached out by now. He requests Kentucky Fried Chicken.

They do it so much, right? That's what he wants. And he is denied Kentucky Fried Chicken because they tell him this is some really fuck you shit. The bones are a security risk. Oh, give him 10Ds. Dude. What the fuck? He can snap a leg in half and take himself out with it, I guess.

What are we talking about here? Give him the tendies then and move along. Just give the fucking last meal. Yeah. Popcorn. Yeah, they got it. He settled for Pizza Hut, which is miserable. That's a miserable last meal.

I would have insisted on the fucking tendies. Tendies. The only thing good about the Pizza Hut is after you eat Pizza Hut, you're so, you just need to sleep. It's so like heavy and greasy that you just want to die. Go ahead and put me down. Go ahead and put me down. No, do it right now. I don't even want to go out there.

Just stick to me. Every time he's about to do a bad thing, he loves to have diarrhea right before. all the time. He really wants it bad. There was another guy who got denied KFC for a similar reason. One of it was that he wanted to share it with the other death row inmates, which they wouldn't let him do. So they have all the ex-if we had more time, we'd go through all the execution details of how they prepare for it. Because I find that shit really interesting. And, you know, I don't know. I'm paying for it.

It's our fucking tax money, so I'd like to know what they're doing. I do think it's fascinating when somebody that's put to death chooses a fucking giant corporate chain to like almost advertise for them. It's crazy. So, wow. So anyway, I will, we'll do a bonus episode on procedures and how they do it exactly, because that'll be interesting. Now, visitation, he only approved visitors, member of the immediate family, all that stuff. Execution. Here we go.

Prison official leaned over, removed his mask because he had to wear a mask because it was COVID times, asked him if he had any last words. And he said, Sister Batista is about to receive in the postal service my last statement. That's what he said. I won't say it now. I won't say it now. Yep. He kept his eyes fixed firmly on the ceiling and didn't turn to look at the witnesses. The spiritual advisor here stood nearby, Sister Batista, with her head bowed reading from a prayer book throughout the process.

The witnesses are Tom, who is Joanne's dad and Joanne's fiancé. Remember him? Larry. Larry, him too. And media pool reporters. Mom doesn't make it. That's it. Those are the witness.

media purports. Those are the witnesses for her. So the lethal injection of penibarbital was administered from an adjacent room. They watched. His eyes remained open. His eyelids grew heavy, began to close. His midsection heaved uncontrollably for approximately

one to two minutes. Accounts described visible jerking, contracting or intense up and down movements with his mouth quivering at times. After several more minutes, color drained from his limbs, his face turned ashen, his lips took on a bluish tint and they checked

his pulse and he was dead. That's fighting it, right? That's not a botch. That's him trying to win. These drugs aren't, no, these drugs aren't as, the first thing they put, because there's three states, the first thing they put in you is a parallel. You're paralyzed.

So he was, he can't do anything voluntarily after that's a minister. This is his body moving, because they're putting horrible, probably fucking makeshift, fucking back alley poisons in it. And maybe expire. We don't know.

We don't know nothing about it. So it's fucking ridiculous. Now, the execution team described him as just falling into a deep, comfortable sleep. Is that how you sleep? Very differently. Yeah, that's very different. Oh, boy. His final letter came.

Three days later, Sister Batiste, to read it out loud. Three days. God damn postal service. They're better with executions than they are with delivering mail. He mailed it from the jail to the jail. and it took three days. Three days. That's wild, man.

Federal, little inconsistency there. Yeah, he said, without carefully considering the consequences of our actions, we did things that we were unable to take back. Who's we?

Yeah, what's this we? Harmed another human being ourselves and so many who loved us and who loved that other human being too. Hmm. Oof. Then the letter quoted, Shakespeare at one point. I think that's part of it there without carefully considering the

consequences. It was written in pencil and small handwriting and filling the front and back of a page. So there's a lot more of the letter than that. Then Tom, Joanne's father here, her dad, said, today justice was finally served. William LeCroy died a peaceful death in stark contrast to the horror he imposed on my daughter, Joanne. He was allowed to live 19 years longer than Joanne, with us taxpayers paying for his food, shelter, and medical care. I'm unaware that he ever showed any remorse for his evil actions, his life of crime, or the horrific burden he caused Joanne's loved ones. So they got their final say here.

Now, very quickly before we end, to be found like insane in Georgia is impossible. Really? Yes. Do you remember the Chloe Driver case that we talked about on a bonus episode where she killed her baby and tried to kill herself because she was literally in. She was literally insane, had hallucinations.

I don't remember it. She's great, delusional. She was insane, an insane person. She stuck a knife right in her throat trying to kill herself, too. After she killed her baby, she thought that all the shit was going on. She was in court with the patch on her neck. Yes. And that whole case, they basically made it.

So all the prosecution would ask is at any point did she say she was afraid of her baby? And they'd say, well, no, that was, that's it. You have to be afraid of the person. an irrational fear that that person's going to kill you. So if she didn't think the baby was going to kill her, then there's no such thing as crazy. They've taken crazy and put it in a lane that fucking narrow. Watching that case, I was so fucking angry because that's ridiculous.

But this case, fuck this guy because he's a rapist and a scumbag. But still. There's also the comparison between crimes in different states is kind of annoying too. Because when they put somebody to death somewhere, or if they don't put somebody to death that's done horrible, horrible things, then you're basically nobody's ever being put to death in that state ever again because the comparison of the juxtaposition of the two. Yeah, well, what about that guy?

Right, right. Yeah. And that's what they do later on. Well, that guy didn't get death, so this guy can't get death. Either way. Well, yeah, that's a comparison, but still if the aggravators and the mitigators are enough, but it's such a, it's such a complicated thing that costs so much money, and it's really kind of pointless.

But sometimes it's, yeah. Yeah, sometimes you get a guy like this, And you go, good, fuck that guy. But a lot of times it's like, it's not worth it for that one guy. You know what I mean? Or for the few guys compared to the bunch of people who it's like, I don't know about that. That's costing money. That's 40 years worth, you know, millions of dollars.

What are we doing? So either way, this guy's dead and fuck him. So if you like the show, you're pretty bad guy. If you like the show, get on whatever app you listen on and give us five stars. It helps a ton. It does. It does. So do that.

Head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Tickets for live shows. are available. Our next show for Small Town Murder that isn't sold out because we got a couple of sold out ones coming up first. But May 2nd in Denver,

and then we have Buffalo sold out. May 30th in Royal Oak, September 18th in Milwaukee, September 19th in Minneapolis. And then we have Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Terrytown, Boston. So get your asses in there. Come see us.

Shut up and Give Me Murder.com. Follow on social media. We are at Smalltown Murder on Instagram, at Smalltown Pod on Facebook. do that. Certainly get yourself Patreon. May as well. Yeah. That's where the good stuff is. Oh, baby. Patreon.com slash crime in sports, just like the name of our other podcast that you should definitely listen to. You don't have to like sports. You have to like us making fun of assholes. Especially cocky assholes who have millions of dollars and think they're above the law. It's a lot of fun.

So check that out. And your stupid opinions as well. Listen to that. But patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material. All you have to be is $5.5. a month or above, and you get everything we put out, everything. All the back bonus material, hundreds of episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription, new ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small town murder. This week for crime and sports, we're going to talk about a boxer who's also a biker and possibly a murderer. We'll talk about him. That'll be fun.

And then small town murder, the phenomenon of alpine divorces. It's wild, fascinating. White, mind-blown. This is the ultimate ghosting. Yeah. This isn't not talking. This is you turn around and. You're literally a ghost.

Where to go? So we'll talk about that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that and more. Plus you get, in addition to that, everything we put out. Crime in Sports, your stupid opinion, small-town murder, all ad free with your Patreon as well. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right now, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people in the world who would never ever babysit our kids or molest them or fucking kill nurses or anything like that because they're nice people. Get me with them right goddamn now. This week's executive producer, Gary Howard in Dunbar, West Virginia.

Oh, shit, Gary. Antonio Macias. Happy birthday, Antonio. That's nice of you. Thank you. And Amanda Rebello. Hey, check your Patreon and make sure you meant to do that. I'm not going to get too specific, but you're an angel if you did.

And thank you so much. Either way, you're an angel if you thought of us at all. Other producers this week are Matt Studer. Thank you so much, Matt. He felt that Patreon was too cheap, so he sent a little bit extra. That's sweet. We appreciate that. Thank you.

You're an angel, Matt. An angle. Peyton Meadows, happy hour, chicken in Laredo, Texas. Ryan Bender, Janice Hill, Lillian, Ashian, Ashian. Thank you. Lillianna. Oh, no. Maybe it was happy birthday, Lilliana.

Maybe not. Happy birthday. I don't know. I think it is, though. I think that's from her husband. Maybe. If it's not your birthday, Liliana, you don't take that. You give it to somebody else, God damn it.

Don't take someone else's happy birthday away. Return the favor. Abby Jackson, Tom, Tom, the meth maker, meth smoker, Vich Vich. Vichnoshinsky. I like it when people are honest about who they are. He does what he does. Shana Matthews, Adele Durham,

Connor Peterson, Latrice Smith. Better than Latrine. You think of Lachene? He used to be shithouse. Used to be shithouse. Kim Salker. C. Wiggles. Miles Wright. Juan de la Norte.

I don't know if you know, James, but that is Juan of the North. Of the North. Of the North. Janet L. Brent would know last name. Chris Sundberg. Jeff Turner. Rachel Kerr. Missy Minerath. Dustin Sepulveda.

Andrea Davis, or maybe Andrea. Jennifer Ann Fowler. Bruce would know last name. Becky would no last name. Becky would know last name. Mike Ockis Small James. That's definitely a person's name and they're not trying to make me tell a terrible fact about me. No, no, no. That's on the birth certificate.

We know that. Kath G.S. Dylan Oliver. Rebecca Herring. Mike Poole. Michael Keating. Cating, perhaps. Grace Schoonmaker. Kels Egginspiller. Amanda Dunham Smith. Dunham perhaps.

Dunham. Hillary would know last name. Sarah would know last name. Ryan James, Bailey, Kelly, Eric with an A. Get the fuck out of here. Leo Rapacki. Eric. Luray 763. Joseph Jamoka. Melissa Gasevious. Jessavicious.

J-E-C-E-C-E-C-E-Savicus. Ryan Jason, Catherine. I've done my part. Vincent. with no last name. I said he'll fuck up your last name. I said he's going to mispronage your name. So anything above that, you're going above and beyond the call of duty.

Going so hard. I'm swinging. Any effort is what we promised. Cole Anderson. Somtoe, Ella, Jennifer Bins, Jennifer Lee, Lena would know last name, Charlie Herman, Jason Rogers, Heather would know last name, Christine Phantom Creep, Bridget Parker, Steve Richards, Marie and Mike Angie H. Stephanie

Stefania Garzon P. Crime. Whatever that is. Penis crime. Jared Warren. Patricia Bivens. Jason Gardner. Tanya Cook. Chuck would no last name. Austin Van Dyke. Shelley Ramirez. Westo would no last name.

Rachel M. Ham would no last name. Trano Wilson. Madison Angelo. Emma Cobes. Cobes. Cobes. The Mint Bar and Grow. Wherever that is. Didn't give a location. Just the mint bar and grill. You can Google it.

It's possibly one in your area. Rashad Sharif, Cheryl Henry, Leslie Aguilar, Aguilar, Jenna Rock, Dustin Lafin, Laffin, Heather Beal, John M. Smoochy Tulips, Jocelyn Wheaton, Catello, Catello, Sheila B. Megan would know last name. Megan would know last name. Andrea Silva. Rusty Bikes with a bunch of numbers in there. That's rusty bikes. I think.

M.LJ. Kevin Slaba. He has two patrons. Kevin, if you meant to do that, thank you. Otherwise, just want to let you know you did it twice. Aaron Ross. Check it out. Annie West Virginia or just Annie WV.

Jake Sims, Lainey Munson, Phoenix Trinity, Maria Hill, Jesse Boggs. Nope, that's just Jess Boggs. Melissa Zook. Mike Majiski. Mahiski. Becca Eric.

Brian. Brian Lange. Langford, Kerry Curtley, Jordan Hockenberry, Sarah would no last name, Jody Settle, Kyle Dempsey, Michael would no last name, Odd Mickelson, Courtney Surrat, Jennifer Osborne, Felipe T, Hannah Catrone, Johnny O, Tom would no last name, Nate Taylor, Lindsay Steele, Jay Johnston, Danielle Bower, Lexie Z, Victoria O, Desiree Newton, and Slicka Blum, oh boy, oh boy, Slick a Blumming. Slick a blame. Slick a blan. And all of our patrons. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody.

You wonderful, fantastic bastards. We cannot tell you how much we appreciate all that you do for us all the time on a daily basis. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If you want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com has drop down menus. Take you where you need to go. That said, keep coming back and seeing us every week. We can't wait. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Hey, everybody, listening to Small Town Murder out there. Hi. Good to see you out there. I'm here with Jimmy, too. And this is an ad, but not an ad for a product. This is an ad for tour dates. Yes, come see a live show, the 2026 tour.

All the tickets are for sale right now, starting out with February 21st in Nashville, March 6th in Durham, March 7th in Atlanta. Phoenix is sold out. We do have tickets, though, to your stupid opinions on the 21st of March. Salt Lake City sold out. Denver has tickets. Be there on May 2nd. May 29th, Buffalo sold out. Royal Oak, Michigan, May 30th. We have September 18th, Milwaukee, September 19th, Minneapolis. October 3rd in Dallas, October 16th in San Jose, October 17th in Sacramento, November 13th in Terrytown, November 14th in Boston. Come see us. The live shows are spectacular. Come join all of the other STM people.

You're going to meet so many people. You're going to have fun. Make some new friends. Like crazy and make some new friends. Come out and see us. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you go for those tickets. Get them right now while they're hot. See you on the road.