Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - 11 Awkward Money Conversations (and How to Navigate Them)

Episode Date: March 23, 2023

It’s about to get awkward! 😬 Whether you think it’s time to confront your aging parents about their iffy money habits or you’re fighting the good fight against splitting the check evenly at dinner, Rachel and George are here to offer their advice for getting through life’s most cringeworthy money convos.     In This Episode:   ·     George admits to charging this close family member rent  ·     How to handle people who assume they’re getting the friends and family discount ·     How to get out of a group gift situation that you didn’t sign up for   Helpful Resources:   ·     Be entered to win a $100 Visa gift card when you take our listener survey! Click here to let us know what you think.    ·     Do you have a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George? Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it.   ·     Get your finances organized, make a plan, build up your confidence, and kick money stress out of your life for good with the EveryDollar budgeting app. Go to everydollar.com/smart to get started today! ·     Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices ·     Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy   This Week’s Happy Hour Special:    The Tom Hanks (aka Diet Cokagne) ·     1 can (12 ounces) Diet Coke ·     Champagne Add ice to your favorite highball glass. Pour in about one third of the Diet Coke. Top with the champagne of your choice until the glass is full. Now be brave and take a sip! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Campbell. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. This is the show for two friends who have a new money experts talk about what you're talking about. Everything from pop culture, what's going on in the world, and, of course, your money. And this one is especially awkward because we're talking about awkward money conversations, how to have them, how to handle them, how to navigate them, and we've all been there.

Cringe worthy. So much cringe. Yes. That's the thing the kids are saying these days. Awkward is done. We now say, that's so cringe. But I like the cringe because you physically are like, oh, I'm cring. Yeah, it's a visceral reaction.

It is, and there are some of those in this episode, and I cannot wait, talk through it. It's going to get weird, but we specialize in weird here at Ramsey Solutions, don't we? That we do, that we do. So we are sipping on a cocktail called the Tom Hanks. The Tom Hanks. Or also known as the Diet Cocaine, which we'll get into later. We'll get into why that is. It's delicious and fascinating.

I thought you would like it, Rachel. based on the ingredient choices. Very different. So stay tuned. We're going to give it our rating, reveal what's in it, and give you the cost per glass at the end of the episode.

All right. We have a lot to unpack, George. A lot to unpack. Emotionally. It might be like a therapy session, so just prepare yourself. I could be. Here's my question to you, George.

Yeah, I feel like usually it's me giving you the therapy. Why do you feel like money is so awkward to talk about? Wow. Oh my gosh. There's, you know, childhood upbringing.

your socioeconomic background that you grew up in, that you came from, your own personal money mistakes, the shame, the baggage, the regret, and all of the insecurities we have about money. We're not where we should be. We're not where we're friends are. And so there's so much that all bubbles to the surface that makes it all cringe.

I agree. And there's just such a value on money these days. How much you have, how little you have, what the money you have buys you. I mean, it's just like there's so much, feels like so much value around this topic. It's weirdly taboo comparatively things we're happy to talk about

in other areas. Yes, yeah, but this one, ooh, can be awkward. We're not scared. We ain't scared at all. All right. And research even says that money is hard to talk about because of two closely related things,

guilt and shame. There it is. You said it, George. You're right. You were right. Guilt and shame. Yeah, people worry they might be living an easier life

than someone else. That's one reason. So it pulls on their conscience. They start to feel guilt. on the flip side, comparison culture can lead to shame. And it's a little bit different than guilt, shame and guilt. When people think they need more money to compete with others, they tend to feel that shame or embarrassment.

So technically money is a need to a certain extent, right? We need food and shelter. You've got to use it to buy stuff and stay alive. Yeah. But, you know, being in survival mode with money, it can be really emotional. Yep. So the bottom line is that talking about money,

it is tricky, tricky. So let's look at some examples. And this was great because we pulled, You all out there, yes, on social media, and it was great because we asked, like, hey, will you send us some of your awkward money situations or conversations, and you came for it? Showed up. You showed up, and we so appreciated it, because there is a lot, George. So let's start first with family and money. Already so cringe.

So the first family money question is, how do I talk to my parents about money if they're not on the same page as I am? Ooh. Well, this begs another question. Did they ask? Yes. I know. I know. Or are you bringing it up going like, mom and dad, we need to talk about your money situation. There's a different spin depending on which way it came from. Yeah. And sometimes when you start like winning in an area of life and then you're like, oh, my parents aren't doing this. I could go in and save them and help them. And then it starts to be awkward. Awkward, awkward, awkward. Because your parents really. I don't want to probably hear what you have to say, let's be honest. I think Dave Ramsey calls it Powdered Butte Syndrome. Yes, he does.

It's just hard to hear money advice from the person who not long ago, you were, you know, wiping their behind. That's right. Changing your diaper. But there are people that are genuinely concerned for their family and their parents, and they're like, I feel like they're not going to be in a good place. So like, what can I do to help? Good motive, good intent, good heart, but it can lead to some tension. Yes. So what do you say, George?

What do you do? How do you combat this? How would you answer that question? Number one, you can't control people. And that is a really frustrating thing to grapple with because your immediate thing is like, well, if they would just, like I just got on this Ramsey plant, I got out of debt. And if they would just do the same, their life would be better.

And so they have to do this. That rarely works out. They have to want it more than you do. Yeah. And so the thing you can do is ask them questions about their situation. and see, do they want help? Do they need help? Are there any resources or encouragement?

Would you do that regardless of if they came to you and, like, talk to you? Would you just bring it up out of the blue? If I'm noticing a pattern of pain and struggle, then, like, I want to help my family. I'm going to bring it up. I would bring it up and say, hey, mom, dad, like, I know you're struggling. I'm so sorry. Like, lead with empathy. That's the key.

Sure. It would be hard. I don't know if I would. I don't know if I would be the ones to bring it up. There's a part of me that I'm like. I don't think they're going to bring it up. So then... So someone has to go first.

But is it your responsibility, though? No. I think John Deloney would say. It's not your responsibility. But if it's something that keeps you up a night, it's worth bringing up to mom and dad or whoever in the family. You're going, hey, I care about you. I care about this relationship.

I don't know there's any way I can help. Even if it's not involving you. It generally won't involve you. Yeah. It's their own decisions that have put them out. Yeah, I don't know, George. I don't know if I'm bringing it up. I think the pain of just watching them just flutter around in life.

That could be with anything, though, right? But I can't go in and, like, save them. No. But if they came to me and said, gosh, we are really struggling, we don't know what to do. And they bring it to you, then I feel like that's an open door. But if it's just, like, out of the blue just sitting there, like, Mom and Dad, I just feel like you guys are struggling with money.

That's a different take on it. I wouldn't go about it with that level of force. Yes, okay, okay. But I do think it's worth trying to start a conversation. Yeah. Because otherwise, you're going to be the one taking care of them. Because they're so broke. I know, but what if they don't change?

That's on them. Then you're, I know. But at least I can say I made an attempt. Hmm. You know? I don't know. I don't know. Leave and leave.

All right. Rachel's just going to leave you in the pit, not help you out. I'm not going to help you. But I'm not going to go in and try to save, especially my parents in situations. Well, we get a lot of calls. The same with like marriage or health or what I'm like, that's not my monkey. Ain't my zoo. But I can always give encouragement.

and resources, you know, gifting them a book that could help. Sure. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's fair. That's fair. I'm not saying I'm going to swoop in and be the savior. Yeah. But if I know this book could really help you, this course could help you, why would I not do that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Because I think a third party where it's not you giving the advice, but the book or the podcast or the class is, like that's a good and easier sell. Fair. Yeah. All right. But this is one of the hardest things to deal with. Oh, for sure. For sure. Let's call that out. Next question.

Do you charge family members rent if they're staying under your roof? In-laws, adult children, distant cousins in town for a summer job. I think it all depends. I think it depends. Here's one listener said that they have an in-law living with her and her husband who eats their food, uses their utilities while they're at work all day, and it's hiking their monthly cost of living up significantly. So it sounds like they are living there for free. Yes.

Not chipping in, not adding anything. Yeah. Oh, man. So we've done this personally with my sister-in-law. Okay. And we charged her rent. Yes, yes. I think that's fair.

Now, it was much, much lower than anything she would ever get. It was minimal comparatively. Yeah. So I saw this Instagram video. I don't know if this is true or not, but it was a funny situation that the, like, 20-year-old daughter went back and moved home. And the stepdad was like, you have to start paying rent. Well, turns out the deed of the house, because her dad had passed away, and I guess the deed was in his name and he gave it to her and the will. So the deed passed to her. So then she turns around

and tells her stepdad, you got to charge me. I own the house. If you're going to stay here, you have to charge me rent. So the question is, does it go both ways? For an older generation to tell the younger generation, you've got to pay rent. And what about the younger generation telling the older like, is it the same principle, regardless of age? That's a hot take. Isn't that crazy though? I was like, oh my gosh. Well, we got a call on the Ramsey show the other day, 16-year-old in Canada, working hard, pays for his own insurance, his car, his gas, all of that. And he said, my dad wants to charge me $500 in rent. No, not for $16.

No, not a minor. Oh, no, that's weird. That crosses the line. And a lot of people that had different takes. Obviously, me and Dr. John Deloney were like, that is, like, abusive. Like, that's insane. Yeah, that's like crazy. He's a minor.

He's working hard. When he's 18 and he wants, you know, you can decide what you want to do at 18. Oh, no. That's a child. But most people whose parents do that, that kid is gone. at 18, you never hear from them again. Oh, sure. It hurts the relationship.

Yeah, no. Not at 16. Okay, do you make the stepdad pay rent if the deed is in your name? I, depending on the relationship, yes. Yeah. If you're in the house, you got to pay rent. Yeah, the whole my house, my rules thing. If it's a quick transition thing, I probably wouldn't.

If it's like, hey, we need 90 days or something, I'd be like, that's great. Here's a gift. Here's the guest room. But if it's going to be a long-term situation, yeah, charge rent. That's fair. What are your thoughts on receiving money help from family? So a listener wrote in and said, My husband's family planned a huge family trip to Disney World,

and we had to awkwardly tell them that it wasn't in our budget. It ended up being a really good conversation, and as parents were very understanding an offer to pay for our flights so that we could just cover room and board. We wrestled with this, but accepted their generosity and made great memories. It was a great way for me to learn sometimes that it's okay to receive. I love this. That's wonderful.

Yes. Receiving money help. I don't think it bothers me. The question is, are there strings attached? Yeah, for sure. Yes. That's the scary part. If someone writes you a check and all of a sudden they want to say into your life, that's the tough part for me. For sure. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So it depends on the situation. Normally receiving money help from family, that's not alone. Because that gets really awkward. Do not lend family money under any circumstances. To pay them back and all of it. No, this is a gift. it's a straight gift and they say we don't want this money back here's $10,000, go on the vacation, use this for your down payment. I think that's beautiful and we should receive it. Yeah. And steward

it wisely. I would say if it's consistent though and you're like a grown up with your own feeling, that could start to get weird. I've seen those situations. That would feel weird. Like there's a point that I'm like, you have to give dignity to your kids at that point that they have to like figure out life, right? If they're adults and their living life. But if it's like, oh man, we're having a tough time and they can help with the car, like buy a new car, or maybe for three months, I don't know, help with the kids' school tuition. I know a lot of grandparents do that to help pay for kids. Like, that kind of stuff doesn't bother me. If the parents are in a financial situation where they can, I don't know. I don't think that's bad to you. I've seen situations where it's a married couple, but like the wife's

dad is just still giving her monthly money. And so she feels like, well, this is my money. I do what I want with it. Oh, no. That can create some real awkward tension in a marriage. Her poor husband. I know. Her dad is still giving her. Oh, yeah, no, no, that's weird. So I think you cut ties. I'm not asking my, I haven't asked my parents. I've moved out of the house when I was 20.

Yeah. I've never asked my parents for a dime. Yeah. I think it's the consistency that is unhealthy. Agreed. Yeah. But a trip to Disney World, that's great. That's so kind.

And good for her does just be honest and say like, we can't afford this. Good for them. Amazing. That's great. Props. All right, next question. What do I say when a family member, asks me to co-sign a loan.

We get this call a whole bunch on the Ramsey show, people calling in saying, hey, they asked me to co-sign. Oh, yeah, y'all don't do it. I want to help them, but... Co-signing. Getting in any level of debt with another person changes everything. And they have to have a co-signer because they're not good with money or they don't have enough money for the thing.

Like, the bank doesn't even trust them to get a loan. So they have to find somebody. So that's already a red flag. You're putting yourself in a major... financial situation. If they can't pay, which there's a higher chance they can't. Yeah, if they need a co-signer, you're on the hook. And it does change the relationship.

Whenever you guys hang out, in the back of the other person's mind, they're thinking, oh gosh, I owe the money. Well, no, or I hope they're paying their car payment because, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm checking in. If I'm the co-sign, I'm like, have you paid? Oh, my gosh. Hey, why are you going on that vacation?

Don't go on that vacation. You owe the car. No, don't do that. I know. And we're in the front lines, George, really, of these conversations because people call the Ramsias. So we do hear the worst of the worst because people call in with it. There's situations, but we've heard everything.

Like, it scares me because of how many stories we've heard of people. Oh, everything from how, like even having your name on a mortgage with someone you're not married to, like that whole thing, from cars to student loans, everything. And it's a mess. And if you're a parent and you've got a kid, don't co-sign for their loans either. No, no. Parent Plus loans are some of the worst loans out there as far as the terms. Oh, that's awkward. Just say no.

How do you say it? Kindly. And I think you dig into the root of what's going on because they're asking you for money help. So I think that gives you permission to ask some questions about what's going on. What kind of car are you needing if this is co-signing a car? How can we get you a car that's reasonable that you can pay cash for? And I can show you ways that you can save up and pay. Yeah.

And let me help you find something that you can afford. Exactly. Or they're just like, all right. I'm moving on to the next person to see if I can go sign to. Fine by me. I know. Yes, I think it's a very kind,

like, I just don't feel comfortable with that. That's what I would say. Yeah. Yeah. And just say, I care about this relationship too much to have this get in the middle of it. Yeah, I don't, yeah, business, friends, that whole thing. It's just like, yep.

Let's keep it. Keep it clean. Okay, I'm done with family talk, Rachel. Okay, let's move on to friends. Friends. Social money questions. First question is, how do you draw boundaries around contributing to a group gift.

Oh, this one is so good. So, friends, the TV show. We know it. We love it. Oh, yeah. When Ross moved into a new apartment complex, everyone was chipping in for the handyman. For the retirement party.

Yeah, for the retirement party. It was like $100. And he just moved in. He was like, I don't know. I've never met him. Like, I don't know. I don't know this guy. And everyone was like, you're not chipping in.

And they all got mad at them. So, yeah, this is a big deal. Group gifts is constant, it's like baby showers or even Christmas gifts at work and people, you know, are chipping in for their leader. Like, it is, it's a lot. It's a lot. So one listener wrote in and said, my father-in-law told us that he had just purchased a Roomba for my mother-in-law's Christmas gift and expected all the kids to contribute without checking with us first. My husband did a good job at drawing the boundary and said that we've already purchased gifts of our own. My man. So good. That's the way to do it.

Now, I will say some group gifts I love because it takes the workout of trying to, like, figure out a gift. Like, this is good for teacher gifts. Like, sometimes the class will go in and, like, the room mom will be like, hey, will you give me X amount of dollars? And she goes and gets her a big basket with tons of stuff. And she does all the heavy lifting. You just contribute the money. Yeah. Sometimes it's convenient to do a group gift.

I'm a fan of that. But if it's constant and it's not even a thing that you wanted to participate in, that's what's awkward. That's another one of those boundaries. What do you do? Like if you're at work and people are like, oh, yeah, well, so-and-so, I don't know. Is moving and needs dinner tonight? I don't know what it is, but like, and people keep asking you for money. What do you do?

I think it's awkward because if you do say no, there's some judgment there. So that's what we're worried about. And especially the dollar amount. They're like, it's just 20 bucks. You can't have, and so I got this message. I'm going to read it to you, Rachel, and get your take on it. Okay. Because I struggle to respond.

It's not an easy question. Okay. So Jessica reached out on Instagram and said, I have a question, not the type to call in about. She's not about to call the show. She's in Baby Step 2, which means she's trying to pay off all of her consumer debt. Her coworkers will buy her manager a gift and then ask them all to pitch in. Ends up being $25 each, no big deal.

But the co-worker's mother-in-law just passed away. Plant was bought for her, and they still want everyone to contribute. And so it just gets awkward because there's all kinds of. of things that keep coming up, whether she's expected to contribute, like you're talking about. And her husband and her, they've made a lot of sacrifices this year. So it sounds selfish to say no to contributing, but it's another thing getting in the way of them becoming debt-free, which is their focus goal. And so they said they make great money.

They're not trying to sound cheap, but it's the principle that they have to cut back. So, I mean, I told her it's a tough one. Don't feel like you have to give to everything, even if people are judgy. and communicating as much as possible up front and saying, hey, guys, this is how much I can do max, if at all. I can get $10 max towards this thing. But you have to just put away that shame and guilt and just say, I can't do it.

Yes. And it may be more in your head than you think, and they may go, oh, okay, moving on. Totally. And then not funny. I feel like that's usually a lot of social situations in your head, it's like the biggest deal ever. And then for most people, they don't even think twice about it. Well, if they're going to be judgy and they're so generous,

they can cover your portion. That's right. How about that? Let them be generous. Yeah, I think that it's fair to draw boundary at some point. But I get that you feel like, oh, especially if the dollar amount's low, and it's just $10. And you're like... But $10 here, $20 there.

$30 there. It just adds up really quick. Yes, yes. All right, next question. How and when to talk about your salary with friends. Oh, interesting. So we had an interesting, when we were brainstorming this episode, we had a bunch of people in the room, all different stages of life and ages and all of it.

And it was fascinating because, and not to call out all. all the single ladies. But a lot of the single ladies, they didn't have a problem sharing with their friends what they made. And for some reason, the married people in the room had more of a pause.

Reservation. Yes. So I thought, oh, that is interesting. Because I think if I was single, in a sense, you're like, okay, I just know my lane, what's going on with my money, all of it.

I think I would want to know, not to be nosy, but like, yeah, what are my other friends doing? Does this is full right? Like to have other people to bounce ideas off of? And so when you're married,

you have your spouse to do that. So I could see how that would be easier. But we just had an interesting discussion about it. Yeah, because I think we were both in the opinion of, nah, that's just weird. I just don't talk about salary. Yeah, to talk about your salary. And I think the earlier you are in the job market,

the easier it is. Because for the most part, it's like if you're entry level or, you know, you're starting out your career, most people generally are in the same range. But within a few years, people can start jumping real quick. And then that's where it gets awkward. It can get awkward. Yeah, I don't think there's enough upside.

to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. Especially if you're later in your career or you're married, it just gets weird. And obviously, we talk about money a lot around here, and people call into the show, we go, what's your income? It's our first question. And they're debt-free scream, what's your income? What do you do?

But it's more to encourage the listeners out there that, hey, you can do this. Yes, that's right. These people make this much. Here's how much they paid off. And so it's more for clarity on that end. Do any of your friends talk about how much they make? Do you know what your friends make at all? I can't think of any friends where I know their salary.

I don't think I do either. I have one friend that works for Metro Nashville, like the government. Yeah. And they list on the website, everyone's salary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one feels unfair because that one's, it's public knowledge. Have you looked it up, George? I may have at one point because I was curious.

What do they make? Yeah. Yeah. But again, like, I'm like, okay, what am I to do with that? And so to me, it's always what is your motive in finding out? Uh-huh. Because usually it's just going to create a weird riff in the relationship. Yeah.

where they go, oh, well, they make more than... I work harder than her. I think it's bizarre. I hadn't realized how common it was until that meeting. Well, there's a whole movement of salary transparency. Yeah. Companies are out to get us. They're not paying us what we're worth.

That's the motive I find behind most of the time. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. It's just crazy. I'm like, oh, I feel cringy. All right, another socially derived question here. When should money come up in dating relationships? Ooh. So most people want to know a few things here.

if and when to start splitting the bill once you're in a relationship, when do you start doing that? And then number two, when to bring up your beliefs, your philosophy around money. Okay, so splitting the bill. There's kind of three different perspectives on this. So it's 2023, all right? So some people say split it evenly.

So what happens? Off to a great start. Some people say it's tradition and the gender pay gap still exists, so the dude should always pay. And then some people say it all depends on who initiated the date.

Okay. Which is generally going to be the guy. I know girls can do it. I might be super old school on this. You think I should always pay? I just expect the dude to pay. Yeah.

It would feel, I think I would be judgy if we got to them to the meal and they were like, two checks, please. I would be like, I was supposed to get a free meal. I assume that would be your last date

with that person. Is that fair? I do feel like that feels weird. Yeah. Is that a southern, I don't know. Is that like an age thing, a southern thing, a cultural thing? I don't know.

I grew up in Boston, but I think, think there's more of it in the South, but I think the guy generally pays. Yeah. Unless the girl has issue with it. Or is like, hey, no, let me get. And I'll go, no, no, no, no. I got it.

And I can see after like months of dating, then, I mean, there's a point where I'd be like, oh, yeah, no, I'm great. Like, you've been paying for it. I don't know there's a certain threshold of time where it's like three months in, time to split. No, no. But I feel like eventually, if it's kind of getting serious, I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't mind picking up.

Like, every time we go out, it's on him. I'm like that after a while I would be totally fine paying for stuff. Yeah. But the initial first impression part of the relationship, yeah, I would expect him to pay. He pays. There it is. From Rachel's mouth to your ears. And would it be a deal breaker if you find out that the person you're dating, like has totally different money philosophies and looks at money totally differently?

Oh. I think it depends on their willingness to evolve and change and grow. If someone is just like, I believe that leveraging business. debt is the path to wealth, I couldn't be in a relationship with that person because of my convictions and my beliefs. Right, right. So if you know that's going to cause a weird rift in the relationship later on in marriage and all that, I don't think it's going to work out. I mean, money fights and money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce. Yeah, yeah. So it's not like a, oh my gosh, he has debt and I don't, it's over. Yeah. That's a ridiculous thought to have. But if

they're unwilling to, they don't want to pay off the debt, they don't want to grow when it comes to their money, that's a red flag to me. Yeah, it would be hard, especially if you have a deep conviction about something. And it's like, oh, man. So. Like, when you started dating with Dave, like, he's got to be debt free. No. That wasn't a part of it, right?

No. But I feel like Winston having a good head on his shoulders. Yeah. Yeah, he, yeah, totally. Yeah, I don't know. Again, I think it's a value system thing. And I think it depends on how passionate you are about the subject. If you're generally on the same page, because I just feel like love.

Love can conquer all George, you know? Because you're never going to believe you on the same page 100% about everything. No. In-laws, parenting, like all of that, right? All the big topics of marriage, you're always going to differ a little bit. So you kind of, I just don't want to be too legalistic about it, but if there's big value differences, like that is going to cause conflict later on. It does surprise me how much people don't talk about stuff before they get married.

It is shocking because I am such a talker. I'm such a talker. And like, I'm talking about every. I mean, we're just, we're gonna, we're a hundred percent going to go there. You're gonna know. I don't know. I'm just like, I just, it just, it does surprise me a little bit of like, wow, people don't talk about this.

I just don't know how you don't. That's true. I think there's more of people who don't talk about it than talk about it too much and it's awkward. Yeah. So I would err on that side. Yeah, I would, yeah. If you're going to marry that person, I'm like, all bets are off.

Like, at that point, like, talk about it. Now, what about, like, debt levels? when do you think that would come up? Like, here's how much debt I have. I know, and again, maybe I'm naive, but if you're taught, but if I'm like, yeah, so what do you think? Like, this, that, yeah.

Okay, so credit card, like, do you have something? Like, to me, if you're in a serious, like, that's not, that shouldn't be like a scary question. Fair. At a certain point in the relationship. And you'll know. And I think you can get the, and I don't think it's even a time thing,

because I think people emotionally get there faster in a relationship than others, right? For some people, it takes a while. have never talked about money because of the way they grew up. And so it can be a hard thing to even talk about. It can be. I know, yeah. But if marriage is in the picture, like, all bets are. You got to grapple with that.

Oh, man. Agreed. Yeah. Okay. Next up, how to set expectations when friends expect you to discount a service for them. This is hard. So it's a good example. The listener said, I'm a hairstylist in Nashville.

People always expect me to give them big discounts on hair services to every girl I know from college. But this is my livelihood. And I don't see this happening in every feat. I highly doubt that insurance salespeople have the same issue. So true. So if you're like a photographer and you hire your friend to do the wedding, but they want the friend discount. I think if the photographer friend doesn't offer it, I'm paying full price.

Oh. But if she says like, hey, I would love to help you guys, like, you know, then that's great. Yeah. But I would never expect, I just wouldn't expect that because I'm like, this is their job. Yeah. Right? And I have no problem asking the friend. Say, hey, like, I know this is your rate.

Would you be willing to do, like, a friend discount? And if they say, I really, like, I love to, I can't. Like, I need to keep my, I'd be like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. So I think both the-dochre people. To you think they would have the ability to say no. To me, sure. Because I feel like, oh, man, I get, like, they ask me,

and I'm like, I got to do this because they're my friend. And I don't know. Would you put them in that situation? If you're guilted into doing this gig, it's already going to be a weird situation. I know. But that happens a lot, service industry stuff. But we've got friends here. And they'll, like, DJ.

J. Weddings and they'll give discounts to like Ramsey people. Yeah. Yeah. Because they want the business too, right? So it's like, yeah, they get their name out there. I think if you are that person offering the service, you need to think through what am I willing to give to friends up front instead of it being this weird last minute thing. Yes, that's good.

I love that. Last up here, George. Our most popular question we get. Wow. The number one question that we got when I asked this was, what do you do when your friends want to split the bill evenly out at dinner, but you didn't spend. as much as them. So they're getting drinks and appetizers and a big steak dinner and you're choosing to go cheap.

I would 100% say no. That does not bother me where I'm like, nope, sorry guys. You will be judged socially at the table. And usually the one whose idea it is to be like, guys, let's just split it all evenly. It'll be easier. They got the most stuff and the most expensive stuff. Do you think they're being malicious about it? Do you think they know what they're doing?

I think sometimes they know what they're doing. Other times they're just unaware. I am an appetizer person. Good to know. So I do love some... I think they're a scam. Oh, I love them. I love an app.

I think for the price you pay, for the food you get, skip the apps. And if we go out with like another couple, I will say, hey, you guys, I'm going to order some apps. If you guys want to split it, that's great. If not, like, we, I'm like, you can put it on ours.

But what if they eat half the apps, but you still paid for it all? I'm great with that. even if they're like, no, no, no, we're good, you go for it. And the apps come, and they're like, that actually looks really good. And you're like, hey, feel free to have some. I would. I think that's fine.

They're still guilt at the end of like, I feel like I need to go have zies on these apps. Yeah, they may. A lot of times what I'll do is say... But it's worth it for me to have the app. And I'm not going to keep my order to dip by myself. I'm probably going to share it with the table. I usually get, like, an app. And I'll go, hey, I'm going to get an app.

And then I'll cover it at the end. But you guys are welcome to it. Yes, that's generous, George. There you go. Are you good if we don't split? We're going to just pay for ours. I think that's fair. I think doing that up front, at the beginning of the meal even, is a safe bet.

There you go. And just take all the awkwardness way. I don't know what the plans are, but we're just going to get our own stuff. That's cool with you guys. Great, George. Just make a chill. Be chill about it. Chill. Calm. Calm.

So chill. Calm. All right. Next up, before we get to guilty as charged, we're going to play a little game, a little rapid fire game where Lindsay's going to give us some scenarios and we got a... But you got quick. Okay. We're going to go fast.

So, Andy, you answer. You answer one, then you answer one. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

A friend forgot their wallet. You pay for their meal. They forget to pay you back. How do you handle that? There is no forget. I hit the Remind button on Venmo every time. So they know. That's relatable.

That's really relatable. If it's like $15 or less, I'm like, it's fine. If it's more than that, I will text. I'm like, hey, you can VIMO me here for the $35. Great. The Remind button on Venmo. We're glad to be in a minute. It works great.

You give your car to the valet and they realize you don't have cash to tip and pay. This happened to me. Oh. And I just felt terrible. I just look at my time. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry because they don't always have Venmo. Some companies will do Venmo.

But what do you do? What do you do? Yeah. I just genuinely. You've done what you could at that point. I'm so sorry. All right. Now, is it like a paid valet or is it a free valet?

There's a difference. Okay. Well, I think, Mo, I mean, like, if it's free, They're free, I would think. Okay, so this is like a restaurant where the valet's free, you tip them five or ten bucks. Okay. Terrible. Yeah, I'd get them on the next one.

Or, you know, anytime I'm stopping back through there. I'd go. I owe you. All the ballets. All the valet guys there. It doesn't happen to me often enough. I do self-park because I don't want to deal with these situations. Yeah.

I'm with you on this. All right. Your group of friends wants to play card roulette when the bill comes at dinner. No, I hate this. That's the stupidest game. Just like once in my life, and I think it was so stupid. No. No.

That's the same person who's like, let's just all split out of the evening. That's terrible. Okay. I would say no. I would say no. It's where you throw all your cards in the table and I guess somebody just like closes their eyes and grabs a card. And like the server chooses one?

And whoever's card gets chosen pays for the entire meal. No. The entire bell for everybody. Unless this is something you guys always do and you're always going out together. And so like you know the next one hopefully is Rachel. But it still feels like, no thank you. No thanks. Okay.

How about you don't show up to a wedding, and they send you a bill for your dinner cost? No. I emotionally wanted to do this for my wedding. Has that happened? It's a thing. People will send an invoice if you don't show to the wedding. No. You pay it 100 bucks ahead.

Oh, that is so tacky. No. You did this? No. I wanted to emotionally. Oh, my gosh. Because we had like 20-something people, RSVPS, which means we paid for their food and beverage, for all of that stuff. all for them not to show up.

And I was mad. I think it's rude to RSVP, yes, to a wedding, and then never show up and never. It is rude, but you're not going to build a... That's so tacky to me. I'm saying I wouldn't do it, but respect to those that have the... No shame that are willing to do it.

But how would you handle it? Someone does that to you. What would you do? I'd pay it. I mean, I guess. If you're sent a bill... I'm going to start sending Rachel some invoices to see if you pay. VINMO!

It's a light that. Remind. Remind VINMO button. I'm going to like invite Rachel to hang out to dinner with her and Winston and be like you guys never showed. It was on the calendar. That's hilarious. Here's our bill. Here's our bill.

You pay for our apps. That's amazing. That's right. All right. Last one. You've been diligent and working the baby steps and now your friends and family know you're better off than they are with money. Oh. So they expect you to cover the bill every time you hang out.

Oh, no. How do you handle that situation having that conversation? I say you don't know me. You don't know my situation. Yeah. So how would that happen? though, like, like, logistically, like the bill comes and they're all like... You know, we did our debt-free scream on the Ramsey show, me and my wife, we paid off

our house. Yeah. And so friends were like, come on, dude, you got to pay it off house. Like, you could buy that. And it's like, that doesn't mean I don't have goals on a budget anymore. Like, I don't just like frivolously spend for fun. Yeah. And so there is that level of when you publicly make a claim like that, you know, and they know,

you're like, I love the Ramsey. I became debt-free. And like, well, you're debt free now. Yeah. Once you cover the bill, Mr. Moneybags. Yeah, that's weird. I think it's, uh, they do it out of a dark place in their hearts. But how do you handle it?

You'd just say no? Yeah. I'd say no. If they're a true friend, I would have jab back immediately if they jabbed first and just be like, no, bro. That's not how it works. All right. And that's it.

I would shut it down. No, especially if they expect it. And especially if they expect it. Like, it's one thing if you're wanting to like treat people, right? Um, but no, the expectation is weird to me. Especially if it's me paying their bill. That just feels awkward. That's weird.

Yeah. No, I get that. Again, forced generosity, like the drive-thru. Hate it. Hate it. Unbelievable. All right. Well, it's almost the end of the episode.

So we always end every episode with... Guilty as charged. This is where our producer Lindsay gives us a new guilty-as-charged question every week, and we have to answer. This better be a juicy one, Lynn. Okay, this will be a fun, easy one, because I feel like we've had a lot of money ones this whole time. So we're going to not... We're going to throw in not a money one. Okay.

All right. Have you ever let someone consider... consistently call you by the wrong name. Oh, no. That is so funny. I would correct. No, but have you had it? No, I don't think so.

But I would be a corrector. Like, after like the third time, I'd be like, hey, don't feel bad. But my name's Rachel. And they're like, no, I've been calling you, Sarah. And it's like, it's okay. It's so not a big deal. I feel like the longer it goes, the more awkward it is, though. Like, you just have to like.

This was a Friends episode too. The boss, yeah, kept calling Chandler, Mother, wrong name. I'm trying to think if this has happened. Your last name, does it happen a lot? And then you're like... I mean, people will say Camel, but I think it's regal. And so I'm flattered, even though it's Camel.

But I'm like, I'm not offended by a mispronunciation. Yeah. But if you are, like, in my life and you consistently call me the wrong name, it's going to irk me to the point where I'm going to go, hey, man, I don't know where you got Greg from, but it's actually George. Okay, I have another one. This is just funny, and I want to ask it. Have you ever been in a...

situation where you've met the person like multiple times and they reintroduce themselves multiple times like they forget your name in that's me that's me oh no rachel i do this i always do this i do this i do i say i yeah i'm like uh i was like i think we've met but i'm rachel i do it just to double check so that they know but like have you done the same person like have you realized like i've done this for the fourth guy oh i did oh my gosh i did this at a ramesy christmas party i have no shame in this though i have no shame in that because i feel like it's kind I'm like, I'm being genuine. Yep.

Right? They're just kind of hurt by it. Are you, are you, wow, I just don't get offended by that stuff. To me. Would you say, like, we've met three times?

Okay, so funny enough, I wouldn't say we've met three times, but I don't care to say, we've met before. Oh, do you say it like that? We've met before. Oh, that's so petty. That is, like, really mean, Lindsay.

Not mean. That is me. That is me. Before. Do you just watch them die inside at that point? She just said it separately. The first time Lindsay said, I know we've met before.

Not I know. Like we've met before. Okay. Or like, oh yeah, it's so good to see. We have met before. Well, Rachel, that's like, ah. I mean, sometimes I'm not to that level, you know? But I'm sometimes like, okay, would you add where you met?

Like, oh my gosh, yeah, we met before at Greg's party. Why am I Greg? Gosh. If you add the location, it feels less passive aggressive. I don't come off like a jerk. No, but you did smile. You did say, I know we've met before. All right.

Well. Send us your guilty as charge questions in the DMs, Rachel Cruz, at George Camel with a K, or in the YouTube comments, we love to hear them. And let's get to the drink, Rachel. Yes, you finish first. I'm closer. I know. This, we said it was a diet cocaine, also known as a Tom Hanks, because I saw him on a late night show, tell a story where he had this drink. And it is Diet Coke and champagne.

That's it. Two ingredients. And it comes out to just $1.33, and you can use whatever champagne you like. So it's very interesting. It is very different. It's not bad, though. It tastes like a champagne-flavored Diet Coke. That's right.

What would you rate it? I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10. I'll go 6 out of 10. Okay, yeah. So, yeah, it's not terrible. But I wouldn't, like, serve it out of party unless it was just a special thing. That's right.

All right. Well, you can find the recipe in the show notes, literally just champagne and Diet Coke. Give me to try this weekend. So if you enjoyed this, you don't want to miss a future episode. Be sure to follow us, to subscribe, wherever you're listening. leave a five-star review.

You can follow us on social media and tell a friend about this. Maybe they've had some awkward money conversations. They could use a little bit of guidance and wisdom and laughter. Absolutely. Well, George, what a great episode. Good times. So make sure to join us next Thursday

on a new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.