Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - Does College Help or Hurt Your Financial Future?

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

We put so much emphasis on going to college, but the cost is rising and now students are wondering . . . is it worth the price? In this episode, George and Rachel share the most regretted college majors, what people are choosing to do instead, and the salaries for great-paying jobs that don’t require a degree. In this episode: - George’s and Rachel’s college majors (and what they paid for them) - Common degrees people admit regretting - How to avoid student loans and what to do if you already have them Helpful Resources: ·     Start making memories! Go NOW and get Tapple at Walmart or wherever you buy board games! ·      Booking a flight with Going is the best and simplest way to pay less and travel more. Sign up for free today at going.com/smartmoney. ·     Get your finances organized, make a plan, build your confidence, and kick money stress out of your life for good with the EveryDollar budgeting app. Go to www.everydollar.com/smartmoney to get a free two-week trial and $15 off your premium membership to EveryDollar. ·     Do you have a Guilty as Charged question for Rachel and George? Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. ·     Learn more about your ad choices: https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices ·     Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/compa... This Week’s Happy Hour Special: Cinderella Mocktail Ingredients: ·    2 tablespoons freshly squeezed orange juice ·    2 tablespoons freshly squeezed lemon juice ·    2 tablespoons pineapple juice ·    1/2 teaspoon grenadine ·    2­–3 dashes Angostura bitters ·    1/2 cup of ginger beer ·    Orange slice (to garnish) Instructions: Fill a shaker with ice, then add the orange juice, lemon juice, pineapple juice and grenadine. Shake. Pour the mixture into a tall glass with ice, then add the ginger beer and bitters. Garnish with an orange slice, sip, and enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers. Cheers. Love. That's a mock tale that will be talked about for centuries to come. That's a great one.

Well, you guys, this is the podcast where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money. And today we're talking about a controversial topic, college. College. So many feelings and emotions around college. There's a lot going on in this conversation in our world today. Is it even still the best option as you take a step toward adulthood and a career? Or are there better things to pursue after you graduate high school?

Yeah, it's crazy because the average college tuition for an in-state school for a year, $26,000 a year. Out-of-state or private average is $55,000 a year. So we're talking over $100 grand for in-state and over $200 grand for private. Yep. That is insane. Yeah, so we're talking about, you know, all that good stuff, George, in this episode. I've got indigestion, and it's not from this drink, Rachel. It's from those stats. That hurt.

So what are we drinking today, George? This is a Cinderella mocktail. Some people out here, Rachel, use a monopoly money living in their own fairy tale, and then realizing this is real life. This isn't Cinderella, y'all. This is happening. But this is a great mock tale, and we're going to give you the rating, reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode.

And, of course, leave the recipe in the show notes for you. make at home. That's right. So again, before we dive in, whether you went to college or not, we can guarantee you'll learn something from this episode. Don't stop listening. Are there people who are like, this is not for me, Rachel? Oh, no. There's a great combo about to happen. That's the goal. Okay. So, George, what's your college backgrounds? Where did you go to school? What did you major in? How long did it take you? Give us a little insight into your life. Mine will shock some people because I kind of dropped out. Really? Yeah, I did a year at, so my dream school was Emerson College, because they always said good grades to get in your dream school.

Yeah. Emerson College in Boston, a very prestigious film and media school. Oh, cool. I was going to go into filmmaking. Yes, you were. Turns out I was meant to be in front of the camera. Not behind. Just kidding.

I'm still meant to be behind the camera. Oosing through. I don't have enough talent behind the camera. They were like, you get in front of there, George. So here's the thing. I got no financial aid. I applied too late because I didn't plan well. No scholarships.

And it was going to be 50 grand a year. So it was going to be $200,000 to get a film degree. At Emerson. And I didn't even know who Dave was, but I was like, $200 grand for a film degree sounds like the dumbest decision you could possibly make. Okay, George, that's some good common sense. It is. So I went to a University of Massachusetts, Boston, while living at home. So I commuted to campus.

Is that a big school? I don't even know. It's not the UMass Amherst, which is another branch. They call it Zoo Mass for a reason. It is a party school. Okay. Mine was not. Mine is like very commuter kind of school.

Yeah. In and out. go to your class, go home. Okay, okay. There's no living on campus or anything like that. Gotcha. So I did that for a year. They didn't have film.

They had English. So I was kind of like, I guess I could be an English major. And then I realized I hate reading for like critical thinking skills. So I dropped out. I worked at the Apple store. I joined a band and started an indie folk rock band. Yes. George, you're like the American dream.

Look at you. There I was. And then I moved to Mobile and finished school in two and a half years at the University of Mobile. Little Private Christian School in Mobile. And what cost you to go down there? I had a friend. down there, that moved from Boston to Mobile, I missed his wedding,

and so I visited afterwards, and I fell in love with the South. Really? A Boston guy that loved the South. I started saying, bless your heart, and I was like, I love this version of passive aggressiveness. Boston is just aggressive. I love the passive part. You throw a little yaw and a little, bless your heart. It's what I've been missing. And it is.

So, I finished with a communication degree. George, we are more alike than you may realize. I went to the University of Tennessee. Go Volz. GBO. Uh-huh. I always assumed I would go there. My parents met there.

My grandparents went there. My cousins went there. I mean, everyone just went to UT. It's just what you did. So I didn't even apply. I don't think I applied anywhere else. And you were sold on it. Like there was no, you weren't like pressured, but it was kind of like, well, this is where we go.

You know, it's a big university. It's fun. You got all the options of anything you wanted. There was football. I mean, yeah, I wanted to go. Now, the year I went to school is when they introduced the Hope scholarship in Tennessee. So it actually became kind of competitive. So actually it was like the place that you could just like know everyone could get into.

And now it was like know a lot of people were applying to stay in state because they would pay for a lot of your schooling if you got the Hope Scholarship. So it actually became a little competitive. Wow. So I like, it was a little stress, but got in, graduated in four years because my parents, thankfully. That was the plan. Yeah, they saved for us, thankfully. And yep, went four years in an in-state school. anytime if we had to do a semester after we had to pay for it so I was like I got to

but I was in marketing my freshman year and then I switched to communications George comm studies it was the best it was so fun that's impressive I loved it so now I've got to say we're both using our degrees because we are communicating professionally I mean it's kind of true I think communication degrees get a bad rap for being like what even is that but I feel like there's so much like if you go into PR oh yeah there's a PR route there was an advertising market There was a lot of different routes you could take. I just took the general one.

Yeah. Did you feel like you got a lot from the degree itself, like the classes? No. Same. Going to be honest. I think I learned more in high school working at events. Yeah. Speaking and doing that stuff.

The real world experience. The college experience, I think, helped me. That's what I was going to say. I think that there is something. It wasn't the textbook lessons. Yeah. I think there is something to be said for majority of people that, like, the first time you leave home, right? You're 18 years old.

to what, 21, 22, like, that you're still in a system. They're still, like, learn. Like, there's, I think there's goodness to that. I don't think it's all bad. So I think, like, being in that rhythm was still really good for me. But no, I don't think I, like, really took me, unless it's, like, all subconscious and I'll just kind of sink in. I don't even realize it.

No, I did have, like, a speech class and, like, a speech two or whatever. So I had to come up with a talk and deliver the talk. So there was things like that. Oh, sure. I use that today as I create talks, you know. Yeah, but do you use what your professor taught you, or do you use more of, like, how you learns, like, what works on stage? The general outline of, like, you got to have an outline for your talk. You got to have, you know, three points.

You have an intro. You have to have a close. So having some structure to it. You can't just get up there and meander. So that helped me to have a framework for it. Yeah, but that take a college degree to learn that, George. No, I could have Googled that, to be honest. But I did a great presentation on Michael Jackson.

Oh, good for you. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So that happened. But, yeah, I chose my college. because it was one of the only schools in Mobile. Yes.

And I had heard good things, and it was cheaper than Boston. And here's where our stories differ, Rachel. I had $36,000 of student loan debt when I graduated between my college experiences. But you were on your own in that. So I can't credit my reason for that. My parents just, they saved for it. Yeah. We didn't really talk about it.

My parents were just like, oh, we'll figure it out. I was like, oh, wow, they're rich. And they hadn't saved. And they raised us great. and they're solid with money. But there just wasn't this onus to like we got to save up in a 529 plan. Well, I was going to say for us, we were probably the outliers of saving. Yeah, I think even like there was a plan that wasn't even around when I went to school.

I think the ESA wasn't there. Oh, wow. But any level of college savings, even still today, is rare. And that's why we teach in the baby steps. It's part of what we teach is to help save for your kids' college because that is a gift if you're able to help get them started. that and they don't have to go into student loan debt or, you know, not, or choose not to go, whatever it may be. But, yeah, it's part of the plan. And that was my story, George. Well, the marketing has gotten out of control for these schools because usually there's a campus

tour and look at the landscaping and the football team. Well, now here's some features that some of these universities offer. High Point University has a steakhouse on their campus. On the campus. University of Missouri has a lazy river indoor. Wow. Indoor Lazy River. That's about as lazy as it gets. Michigan Tech University has their own ski slope. Rice University will do your laundry for you.

Now, that's actually useful. That's actually very helpful. No, some of these are very boozy. But also, like, you've got to learn how to do laundry. And I feel like college is the place where you have to learn how to do laundry. I agree. Then you go into adulthood and you're like, well, they did this for me. I have no idea.

Yeah, it's true. Well, from a financial perspective, Rachel, what is one thing you wish more people thought about when it came to making the decision about college. Because you've seen a lot of things, people's questions, talking to people at live events, meeting them in the lobby. What is the thing you just wish you could tell every single person? I think it's less about where you went to school.

And even your degree to a degree. I think community college is underrated. I think just a four-year degree at a state school is great. But going out of state and paying double or going to a private school, I just don't think usually has the ROI. Now, I will say, there's a small percentage of the population that it does, right? Like, we kind of like, you know, whatever our feelings are about Ivy League and all of that.

But certain professions in a certain part of the world, with a certain echelon, you go to this specific school and all. Like your life can and will look different. Yes. To it, yeah. So I do think there's a small percentage of people that is very true. But for majority of people out there just working and doing it, you can still be successful and go to a community college, I believe. Agreed. I think there's a lot of hype.

And just a lot of weird emotion tied around school. Like, it's the parents' alma mater. So they want their kids to go there. But now it's five times the cost than it was when their parents went. Sure. And so the kids just fall into this. Yep. And 18, you don't know what you want to do for the rest of your life.

I know. Unless you're that kid who's like, I know I wanted to be a doctor when I was five. That's great. Most people like me just kind of like meandered into something. Yeah. And so college, I think, is worth it because those are formative years where your brain is still growing. Yes. So try as much things as you can as far as different paths and marketing, communication, and

try it all to figure out what you actually want to do. And do career shadowing to figure out, oh, gosh, I thought design was really fun. Right. I'm just staring at a computer screen and Photoshop all day. For sure. Hey, let's run through some stats because the data here is very interesting. See if you're shocked listeners. You ready?

According to the Washington Post and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, only 27.3% of college graduates work in the same field that they got their degree in. Wow. So we are part of the 27.3% of the 27.3% of college graduates with bachelor's degrees say they would have chosen a different major. Wow. This goes back to our point is it's too early at 18 to decide your fake. I know. I agree with that. Not that you have to do what, you know, like we saw, a lot of people don't have anything to do with their degree when it comes to their job and that's okay. Yes. But ideally, you know, you want to make it match up and use your experience in education. That's right. your career.

All right. Here's some regret, George. 48% of humanitarian or art degree holders say they would have studied something different after entering the real world. But for STEM and engineering grads, only 24% say they regret their choice to study. That makes sense. That does make sense. I mean, it's pretty easy to figure that out.

When you get in the real world, there's lots of jobs in science and technology and engineering and math. For sure. But what's fascinating is you look at like the royals and even like billionaires kids and stuff, it was shown the number one degree their kids get is an art degree. Art history degree. That makes sense. Because they don't need a degree.

You know what I mean? So it's like, just do something. No, but the article I read was talking all about understanding complex issues, how to like take knowledge and communicate it.

It had a reason behind it. They weren't just like, go get whatever you want. Like there's a reason they're studying this. Okay. But again, I think that's for like

a certain level of echelon of people. They have the luxury of not worrying about their income for the rest of their life. Maybe that's it too, right? But to like, but it's a higher thinking thing that we obviously aren't part.

Well, you've got to think about it. A higher thinking thing is what's going on. A lot of people get art degree. I'm not mad at the art degree, but you've got to know what's on the other side of that. Unless you're Cape Middleton, I would probably choose something else. Because like you could be a designer or an art teacher. Yes, or go to coding school. Good Lord.

Or be an artist and actually sell paintings and things like that. You know, that's an option. Yeah, we'll get a business degree with an art minor. But I found the most. Most talented artists never got art degrees. Yeah. They were just had a natural ability and put it to work and practice. For sure.

So there's that. Okay. Here's some common degrees that people admit regretting. Are you ready for this one too? Philosophy. Can I be honest? Yeah. I did a double like minor concentration and one of them was in philosophy because I was

like the mom cares about a concentration or a minor. But it just sounds cool. My major was communication. One of my concentrations were philosophy. I just enjoyed the classes. Yeah. And I knew none of this matters. I'm just going to do something I enjoy.

Yeah. It was not like a specific skill set with that once. That's hard. I'm a great thinker, Rachel. You are. You're a great thinker, George. It's all because of that. Entrepreneurship.

So you'll just find that most entrepreneurs don't get a degree in entrepreneurship. They just entrepreneur. They just do it. Well said. She has a communication degree. I know how to speak. And might I remind you all. Yeah, the people that we look up to and celebrate, you know, the ones that are most successful, you're not going to be like, oh, they went to school for entrepreneurship.

It checks out. Yeah, they just do it. They just do it. Fashion and merchandising. It's very niche. But again, if you're going to be a successful designer, you don't necessarily need a college degree for that specific thing. Usually you're, you get into that world. It's more about your taste or influence the networking.

Yeah, you're in the business. You know how stuff works. It's more like you have the eye for it. To be respected in that world. Yeah. Next, marriage and family science. What is the science behind family? No, no, there was a degree at U.T. Oh, man, my sister, this is what she got her degree in.

Are you about to out Denise? No, it's not a bad. I don't think it's wrong. But it's in this vein. Child and family studies. Oh. It was one that so many, and a lot of teachers, that was like their nature before they went and got like their masters in teaching. But child and families, it was huge at U-T. Yeah, a lot of people did child and family studies.

I will say I can totally see Denise as a teacher. Like, she is so sweet. I feel comforted. Anytime I'm around her, I'm just like, she's just such an amazing person. She's so much nicer than me. That's not true, Rachel. She's just a sweet, sweet soul. You're both very nice in different ways.

Okay, youth ministry. Oh, this is a tough one. We could step on some toes here. Because the truth is, most Christian universities, universities are private schools that can cost a lot of money to get a degree in something that you may not be making a lot of money in. Well, notoriously, for those that you don't know, youth ministers are some of the most poorly paid people on this earth. And I hate it, but that's just how it is. Mm-hmm.

I mean, it's like poverty level. Yeah. Some of these churches and the youth minister... Because they don't have a budget. Churches don't have a massive budget. Yeah, they're like, we can pay you 25 grand. And the youth minister's like, well, this is my life calling, so I'll do it. I know.

And it breaks my heart. But, and I hope some churches now are, you know, starting to pay better for their youth ministers because they're doing amazing work. Or is that the degree shouldn't cost us much. That's true. So the school choice is really important. Like, can you get a theology degree on law? You know what I mean? Like, what else can you do to get the qualifications that you need?

Agreed. Lastly, this is going to step on some toes, especially around here. I know. Music. The amount of people that work here that went to Belmont, a very prestigious school, well known for its music program, they have music degrees. And now they are not pursuing music. But I will say Belmont, it's in a lot of the business side of music. Sure, there's a lot of music business majors, which is different.

But just in general. Like some people major in a specific instrument, right? Sure. And unless you're going, I mean, even the ones that do it professionally, like we talked about. I wonder if Travis Barker got like a drumming degree. I have highly suspicions that he does not. I know. So that's what I'm saying.

I wonder of like the most successful musicians. But I won't knock it, though. Do you think you learn something, though? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like, I'm a musician. I never went to school for music, and I have an album out on Spotify. So, like, you know what I mean?

Like, the bar is low for what you need to be able to do without a degree. Mm-hmm. So I don't think it's worth of spending $200 grand on a music degree if you want to be a musician. I think you need to go get the gigs and do the work and build an audience and do all of those things. There are great paying jobs that you don't need a degree for. That's true. And these are becoming more popular as people start to look at the numbers we shared and go, not for me. So here's one that's interesting. Commercial pilots. Oh, yeah. You need a high school diploma or GED, and let's be clear, you need very specific training and certifications that can cost a lot of money. Like, these can go upwards of six figures to get this. So it's not like, we don't need a degree. It can still cost a lot. Sure. But the median salary, $122,000. Yeah, it's a lot to be a commercial pilot. It's great. There we go. Next, elevator repair specialist.

scary you know i just like flashed in my mind was like uh oceans 11 or something where you're like in the shaft yeah they're like in the elevator shaft like in the elevator shaft like fixing stuff yeah that is frightening that is a job i would not want but hey you need a high school diploma or gd and an apprenticeship median salary 85 000 so if you're not scared of heights you're very adventurous and you love to save lives i don't know if that's who does i feel like it's the firefighters who do it yeah but no they've got to fix it afterwards feels right that's and elevators will always be around So I feel like it's good job security. You know, we're never going to be like, let's revert back to stairs.

No, we're done. We live in a Wally era where we want more convenience. Yes. All right, next, UPS delivery driver. This one's recently been in the news. It has. I saw this. It was like there was a big video that went out of a driver.

Big video. And he, yeah, and walked through all their health plan. I mean, how much they get. They do a lot. It's great. They crush it. It's probably because of Amazon. All those Amazon packages, Rachel Gates.

Our delivery drivers, though. Like, they have dog treats. Like they like love my kid. Like it's great. I do love to like catch them. I like love to wave and like love to wave for in the driveway. They're driving through the neighborhood. Sweet.

They're great. Well, not only are they great, but they get paid well. The average salary at the end of a five year contract is now 170 grand for a UPS delivery driver. Now that's including the benefits package. Yes, yes. But that's still impressive. It's amazing. You need to be 21 years or older with a driver's license and a high school diploma.

So good. That's it. Next step is a subway driver or operator. You need a high school diploma or G. and job-specific training and certification, but median salary is $68,000. Not bad. Yeah, it's great.

Okay. And lastly, first-line supervisors of police, median salary of 86K, and you just need a high school diploma or GED and job-specific training certification. So good. Just to show you guys, there's other options out there. And I love the trades are now coming back.

I mean, Mike Roe has been pioneering this going, I know. Guys, stop poo-pooing the trades. We need these jobs. They're so helpful to our community. Yes. work being done, it's very fulfilling. Okay, so before we get into the most bizarre areas of study, let's quiz ourselves a little bit,

George, and play a game of Tapel, shall we? Oh, this is exciting. Okay, do you know how this works? You pick a category, and you press the timer in the middle, which is 10 seconds, and then you hit down the letter of the word that matches the word that you're picking for the category, and then you hit the timer. So if we said mock tales, that would be the category, and then you would say, Cinderella, you'd hit the C and then hit the timer,

now it's my turn. Yes, that's a hard category, though. What should our category be? Well, on the topic of college, let's do things you can find on a college campus. That's fun. Okay, ready, George? Things you would find. Does this need to be PG?

Classrooms. Girls. Sororities. Textbooks. Football. Nah, dang it. Oh. Desk.

Desk. Oh, elevators. Women Ice cream Oh nuts The cafeteria Janitors

Janitors You got one more K You gotta come up with a K Kids That was not great That was good That was good George That was really hard

That was tough Hey we did really well though I feel like my Apple Watch is telling me Like my blood pressure rocketed. Oh my gosh. You did really well. I feel like I borderline cheated.

Tapel is. Can you imagine it with a big group if we had more friends, which we don't? I know. So you guys, again, whether it's like you got two people, you got a group of people, you got some competitive spirits in there. It's so great. And you can knock out around and like, we did that in a minute. Yeah, it's so fun.

So if you need a new game for a party or hanging out with friends or family, make sure to check out Tappel. So you can buy it at Walmart or wherever. you buy board games. Love it. So fun. All right, back to boring stuff, Rachel. Let's talk about the most bizarre areas of study because this is kind of interesting.

I don't even know what half of these are. Decision-making science. Like a Ph.D. in decision sciences. So you can become a business consultant or a college professor. Oh, okay. And salary range, $53,000 up to $122. That's pretty impressive. All right, ready for this?

Ethical Hacking, Bachelor's degree in Information Technology. and can become an information security analyst, average salary $9,000. Wow. So like you're trying to hack to point out the security flaws. Yep. He would set the Panera on campus and could, like, hack into people's, when he's using the Wi-Fi.

It could, like, pull up people's screens and stuff. Oh, yeah, it was crazy. What a helpful creep. That's cool. Okay, here's one, theme park technology. You need a bachelor's degree in engineering. You can work as an engineer in theme parks. You know, for a guy who grew up playing roller coaster tycoon,

I could see myself being interested in this. Salary range, 45, up to 80,000. All right, you got auctioneering. So this can even be offered at a community college. Work as a professional auctioneer, average salary, $46,000. Bagpiping. Okay. That's a bizarre area to study.

A Bachelor of Music with an emphasis in bagpiping. You can play professionally and offer private tutoring sessions. On average, you can make up to 200 an hour. Oh, wow. This is generally like processionals, weddings, funerals. Yeah, and it's very limited. I don't know many bagpipers. So if you're one in the area, you probably get a lot of business.

Puppet art, bachelor's degree in this, and puppet show management, average salary, $54,000. Puppet show management? Yeah, take that in for a second. I'm very intrigued by this. Okay, pop culture. Rachel, that one's for you. If you could go back in time, you could get a degree in pop culture and make— Sounds kind of fun.

And make Dave very unhappy. You need a Bachelor of Arts, and you can work in PR, journalism, advertising. Yeah. Average salary, $43,000. So good. And you could probably write for BuzzFeed. I feel like if I was at BuzzFeed, I'm like, we hire people who studied pop culture. And you're like, oh, well, pick me.

Pick me. Can you just watch a lot of Netflix? I feel like that's enough. Oh, my gosh. Well, George, the truth is, majority of you all listening are watching, you may or may not be going for your college degree. Maybe we've got some Gen Z years in college, you know, watching us. But for most people, they're like, okay, this is all great. But I've already gone to college, and now I have student loans.

Oh, yeah. And now the repayments are starting. Like, what do I do? Right? Like you're getting hit with the past. It's coming back, full force, and figuring out what to do. And it is really kind of a, it's a crazy time because you haven't had to pay on them in, what, two, three years? So getting in the habit now of putting this back in your budget where a lot of people still don't even have margin.

If you're doing a budget, which start doing a budget, you haven't been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But really, you guys, we want to encourage you to start planning now to say, okay, what is my life going to look like when these payments hit and how can I pay off this debt as fast as possible. And that's what we want for you. That's huge. And the best way to pay off your student loans is to put them in your debt snowball. So this is where you take all of your consumer debt, everything, whether it's medical debt, student loans, car loans, and listed out smallest to largest balance, regardless of the interest rate and attack the little one with a vengeance, make minimum payments on the rest. So you free up that payment, you move it to the next one and the next one. And that we found is the best way to get out of debt fast. Yes, absolutely. And when Since you're out of debt completely and you have a fully funded emergency fund, you're funding 15% of your income into retirement, then actually you start saving for your kids college. So there's options like ESAs, an educational savings account or a 529 plan, but looking at some of these college savings for your kids so that they're not having to repeat the cycle, right?

If you have the ability to help your kids go to school, that's such a gift. It's not a requirement. They're not entitled to it, but it is a gift, kind of a leg up to help them in that way. If you can sock away even two grand a year for a kid, that can turn into it. to over $100,000. So you put in like 36 grand from zero to 18. Yep. That could be over $100,000.

That's right. Thanks to compound growth. And also the weird thing is George is we're kind of talking about like college in this episode. Like I think about my kids. And I'm like, we don't know what it's going to be. In a decade, what is that world going to be? So there is a lot of question marks of what is to come.

And I will say this. If you're like, I don't know if my kid's going to go. So I'm not going to save. There's some new laws under the Secure Act. Yes. You know what? We're going to give, we're going to give this. But I didn't, I don't know how much his involvement was a part of this.

They did a great job. They did something. So tell them what happened. So the money has to be in there for 15 years and a 529 and up to $35,000. You can convert it into a Roth IRA. That's amazing. It is. So the money is not stuck there.

It's not wasted. Yep, exactly. And if you get a scholarship, you can pull the money out against that 529 plan or ESA. Yes. And there's so many tax benefits. So I highly encourage people to do this even if they're not sure because it's a big help. And by the way, Rachel, you guys dug into this on the recent student loan live stream. Yes.

You, Dave Ramsey, Jade Warshaw. So the good news is all of you wonderful people listening and watching can go tune in. Just go to ramsysolutions.com slash student loans. Rividing discussion about how we got into this mess and how to get out. We want to give people hope during what can be a scary time. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, George, it's almost seen into the episode and we finish out every episode with Guilty as charged.

And this is where our producer, Lindsay, gives us a new guilty-as-charge question every week. So, Lindsay, what is it? Deliver the goods. Wow, that look. Have you ever pretended to be into something to fit in college? Oh, that I feel like is the time you are a chameleon. Oh, I can be swayed.

I think it's time. I can be swayed into situations for sure. Of like... What was the thing you're most... You look back on and like, why did I pretend to be in that? You know, I was in Young Life. I did Young Life and Sorority in college. I was a young life later.

And, like, the Young Life vibe in Knoxville was, like, choccos, Mountain Smith, bags. Oh, kind of crunchy. Car, heart. Winola. Yes. Which clearly is me. Rachel's a classic. Like, could be hiking.

At any moment, she could go on a hike. I was. I owned it all. And then I would go to, like, the CIO, you know, Panolinic, you know, weekly meetings. What? Who now? Panolini? And I would wear, like, my jeans skirt and my sorority top and my clothes. Wow.

What did I do? I don't know. But I was fine, but I loved it all. I loved all the, like. So depending on what crowd you were hanging out with, your whole wardrobe and personality changed. And I was totally great with it. But looking back now, I'm like, that's so funny that I did that.

But yeah. Were you ever like, you guys take any good trails this week? I know because I never went hiking. I never did anything. Such a poster. Yeah, I did that double back diamond the other day. It's pretty intense. Had to take an extra backpack with the little.

I know. So I, yeah, I think I probably did a lot of that. I mean, I feel like college. I didn't make, like, bad decisions. Mine were more bad fashion choices that I can think of. But I'd never felt pressure to like, you got to go and part, you know, whatever the thing is. Like at that point, I was like, I'm good with what I feel secure. That's the benefit of going to a private Christian school, Rachel.

We didn't even have fraternities. We didn't have sororities. There was no party. Okay, I will say, George, one of my biggest regrets, though, in college, I ended up dropping my sorority. Oh. By the end of my junior year. Do you get excommunicated? So in Chi Omega.

So most you can like unaffiliated. you can like, you can, I don't know, shoot, I can't remember the words. Like, resign, but you can still pay the dues and be part of it. So then you're a legacy. So if your daughter or niece or someone wants to be part of it, you can write a recommendation. Like, it's a big deal in that world.

Well, Ky Omega, they will not let you do that. Like, if you drop, you turn in your pin, like you're done. So technically, I am not. You're like a disgraced sheriff of a small town. I'm not in Chi Omega. So if anyone knows the Kai Omega president or like head of Kai Omega, which I think is in Chattanooga, Tennessee. They were in Dallas for a while.

We know you know people, guys. Well, you bring me back. Because if one of my daughters wants to be a Kayo, you can't recommend it. I want to, like, write a wreck for her. What if they're like, oh, you're a, you know Rachel Ramsey, you're out. We're not going to let any daughter of Rachel Ramsey in here. That's so sad, how toxic it is.

Yeah. Wow. So, it is a regret. I shouldn't have dropped. I should have stuck with it. Well, I'll say, I was not in a fraternity. Don't worry. And I always say fraternities feel different than sororities.

if I can stick up for sororities at all. It's like, what an amazing group of girls. And those guys go like, dude, my frat bros. Not for me. My bro. But I did conform to the southern culture in a weird way when I moved to the South. Yeah. Like I started wearing a lot of Tom's exclusively.

And then I got rainbow sandals. Yes. And then here's the most embarrassing one, Rachel. I can't wait. I got like a house key made and I got the Alabama football logo on it. No, you did it. Why? Because I was scared.

I was like, because when you're in the South, you have to like... Like football. You chose Alabama? I need to see your license registration and football affiliation. Auburn or Alabama. And I chose Alabama because it was a...

Of course. I was in Mobile. So I chose a common denominator. Yep. And I was like, who would I want in a fight with me? I want an Alabama fan, not an Auburn fan. I would agree with that. An Auburn fan knows the sheriff of the town

and can get out of the ticket. Yeah. The Alabama fan will go to jail for you. And those are like those are real... Those are the people you want. Red-blooded Americans. Nick Sabin would be so proud. I will say,

I'd rather go to an Auburn tailgate. I think they've better food. Okay. You know? They're going to have the Yeti cooler, not the Coleman. How about a UT tailgate? I wouldn't darken the door of a UT. I'm just kidding. No one invites me.

The truth is no one has ever invited me to a tailgate. Okay. But that's probably the most embarrassing thing I did. It was like pretend to be into sports. Like I remember sitting with people and they'd be like, what do you think of the, I'm like, we'll see how the coaching is. I mean, anything could go this season, you know? It's all that comes out.

Who knows what can happen? I faked it until I made it. Oh, that's so good. Well, we're both guilty, so we'll take sips for sure. But, George, it's almost closing time. Well, what do you think of the drink? I'm going to go 10 out of 10 for this mocktail. I'm thinking, like a salt.

I mean, I really may too, George. It's really good. What's in this, you ask? Well, it's got some orange juice, pineapple juice, lemon juice, grenadine, and gastura bitters. And you can do soda water. We chose to do ginger beer. Yes.

Which adds a, that's still non-alcoholic, for the record. It's just like ginger ale, but more intense. a little sweeter, but it really made this drink pop. It's delicious. Dave it's some real pizzazz and panache. Yep. That's what a moktail needs. So I encourage everyone to go make this at home.

The cost breakdown will blow your mind, Rachel. What is it? Under a dollar. Make this for your next party and a big punch bowl for your next Cinderella theme party. So great. And have a ball. Oh. You want an Amelia Cruz, eight-year-old joke?

Yes. Why was Cinderella bad at soccer? She couldn't pass the ball? She kept running away from the ball. Way to go, Amelia. How did she find that joke? I don't know. Is she on Ask Jeeves or something?

What are the kids doing these days? He has a little joke book, but it's for me of it. She has a joke book? Yeah, she loves jokes. That's so cute. All right. Well, George. That was fun.

Thank you guys so much for listening and watching this train wreck of an episode, but we hope you enjoyed it. We hope you enjoyed it. I thought it was fun. To leave a review. Let us know where you went to school. school, give a little roll tide or go balls or the only time you'll hear Rachel say roll tide

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