Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - Financial Gaslighting (It’s More Common Than You Think!)

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

📈 Don’t know where to start with investing? Check out our free Complete Guide to Investing!   Reality TV taught us about “gaslighting”—but did you know it can also apply to your money? Stick around and watch us debunk the toxic communication trap that’s keeping you from building wealth.   Next Steps: ·   🎙️ Catch our episode Love and Money: Financial Decisions People Immediately Regret. ·  🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour ·  📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Leave us a voicemail with your question at 877-306-1517 or send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it.  ·  💵 Create a free budget and find more margin with EveryDollar. ·  💻 Watch more of the Rick’s Boats episode. ·  🛳️ Watch this call we took on The Ramsey Show.   Connect With Our Sponsors: ·       Check out the FAIRWINDS Credit Union exclusive account bundle. ·   Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. ·   Get 20% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth.   Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍹 Mango Mojito Mocktail Recipe by Shivani Loves Food ·      1 ripe mango ·      2 fresh limes ·      2 tablespoons mint leaves ·      3 tablespoons granulated sugar ·      2 cups sparkling water   Instructions: Prepare the simple syrup: Add 3 tablespoons sugar and 3 tablespoons boiling water to a small saucepan over low-medium heat. Cook until the sugar has dissolved and the syrup is just starting to bubble, stirring frequently. Set aside to cool. Peel the mango and add the flesh to the jug of a blender. Juice one of the limes and add the juice to the blender. Blend the mango and lime juice into a smooth puree. You may wish to strain the puree if it has any lumps. Slice the other lime into wedges and add the wedges to a large jug along with the mint leaves. Use a muddler or the back of a wooden spoon to crush the limes and mint to release their flavors. Add the mango puree to the jug along with the simple syrup—I recommend starting with a small amount of simple syrup (1 tablespoon) and adding more later if desired. Top up the jug with sparkling water and give it a stir. Taste the mango mocktail and add more lime, mint or simple syrup if desired. Serve the mango mojito mocktails over ice and garnished with extra mint and lime. Enjoy!   Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, guys, cue up toxic by Brittany Spears because today we're talking about gaslighting and toxic communication strategies that can sabotage your money. Don't gaslight yourself thinking it's not going to happen to me, Rachel. That's crazy. That's right. That's a gaslighting yourself. I'm your child. I'm your son. You're in your 50s. Then I'm in my 80s. Winston. Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, George. Cheers. Well, this is the show We're two friends

Who happen to be money experts Talk about what you're talking about So everything from pop culture, current events, and money I hope they're talking about toxic by Britney Spears I don't think it's talk about enough I think we should talk about them more She has not responded to my DM If you've been following along in the saga

Ghosted I was worried about that at minute I think she's gaslighting me Mm-hmm Come on Brittany, stop that Well, let's talk about what we're sipping on as a salve to my soul right now as I grieve the lack of DM.

We are sipping on a mango mojito mocktail. Yeah. There was a nod from Rachel. I think you know what her rating is already. We're going to give you the rating at the end of the episode. Don't miss that. And we're going to reveal the cost per glass and the ingredients at the end of the episode.

So stick around. I think it's fine. I don't know why you're trying to gaslight me, George. No, it's not. You know what I am. No, gaslighting, a term that is used by the, by everyone now, it feels like. Yeah.

It's become popular. So the official definition of this is the practice of psychologically manipulating someone into questioning their own sanity, memory, or powers of reason. Wow. That's good. When you were the one that starts to feel crazy and you're like, am I crazy or are they like gaslighting? Yeah. And I don't know if this is true, but I think a lot of narcissists use this.

Yes, they're gaslighters. Because they can never have ownership or be wrong, so they sort of deflect it. Okay. Do you know what I think of what comes to my head when I hear gulf? gas lighter. Hit me. I think of like a little lighter, the gas of the flame. Okay. Where, what, what is gas? Like, what is. What is gas? Are you asking me what gas is? Like a gaslighter. Like, I understand the psychological term. Or the term come from? How did they come from? Yes. Is it like a lighter switches on and off quicker? You don't even mean like there should be like a reason why. You know,

you would think that would have been included in this outline for today's episode of where it came from. Where did it come from? No one will ever know. We can't search it. Well, we can't. What are you talking about? We have How would you even look that up? You'd go to a library? Hold up an encyclopedia. It's called ChatchipT, George. Oh, you're still using ChatchipT? What are you talking about?

Embarrassing. We've moved on. What? Yeah, you're behind the trend on this one. Wait, what? Nobody's using that anymore. Shut up. Are you lying?

You're gaslighting me. You are gaslighting me. No, but I haven't moved on to Claude. Isn't Winston a Gemini guy? Winston's Gemini. Gemini is kind of a vibe. I like my ChatchipT. I like people who use Gemini.

because I feel like they're not fallen for the trend. Where did the term gaslighting come from? Did it come from a word picture or maybe a lighter? You can't lead it? Yeah, I can. In a court of law, you'd be in contempt of court, I think, if you did that. Ooh, oh, are you ready for this history lesson? Did it originate from a lighter?

No, it originated from a play. Gaslight written by Patrick Hamilton in 1938. And the play was later adapted into some film. called gas light. So basically, it's a story of when a husband secretly searches the attic for hidden jewels and when he turns on, this is it, the gas powered lights upstairs,

the gas lights up the rest of the house. That was dimmed slightly. His wife notices the lights flickering and dimmering. Ooh, ooh. But when she asks about it, he insists that nothing has changed and that she must be imagining it. What history, George.

Wow. That is what we needed to know. I was stuck on the fact that you said dimmering, and I didn't know as a word. Did it not say dimming? Did Chad GPD say dimmering? Hold on. Hold on. Nope.

Yeah. It said dimming. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Now you're gaslighting me. This whole episode, we're just going to be gaslighting each other. I don't remember that, George. You just hit me in a way.

You know when someone hits your brain? You're like, that's not a thing. That was really good, though. Thank you for that. Simmering, dimmering. You know what? That was the first time you've taken the onus to look. look something up instead of me. I'm usually the one who says, I guess I'll do the work.

Really? Do you don't feel like I use my phone a lot here? I feel like I'll use it. Not to be helpful. You've never used it to be helpful. Oh my gosh, George Camel. Now you have used it to like phone a friend. I bet they'll do some montage than me using my phone. I bet I use it way more than you. Well, if we do a montage, it's going to be you calling Dave hearing his voicemail, calling Sharon, calling Winston. You have like power and influence. I'm sorry I'm a communicator. I have resourcefulness. You have influence. Which one would you rather have? Anybody can be resourceful Influence

You'd rather have influence I think at the end of the world I need bread and water How are you gonna get it You think Dave would answer if I called I don't even know if he has my number He did add me to a group chat once And I thought he must have added me by accident

But he didn't He was like yo we meeting up Let's go like hotel lobby meet up Oh like at an event or something After an event And I was like George You're like this is it

Made him to the group chat I'm in it Okay so here were some OG gaslighters that you can think of OG gaslighters. I think about the mom untangled. Oh, Mother Gothel. Yeah, she was a gaslighter.

Forgot about her. Yes. Because she, yes, if you watched that whole movie, it is. The psychological crazy. You know what I'm thinking? Almost every movie has a gaslighter. I mean, wasn't Satan the original gaslighter? Wow.

The serpent in the garden? 100%. It was. Guys. Yes. He's like, God didn't say that. Oh my gosh. That's a serpent.

to Mother Gotham. Yeah. I mean, he's like, you're crazy. That's not what he's at. Good, George, look at you.

You're so biblical. You know what? My Sunday school teacher would really be proud. And it was my mom, who was my son of school teacher. Shout out to Arabic evangelical church. Arabic Baptists.

No, my favorite, I think, like, because of my favorite movies, I'm thinking through Aladdin. I'm like, oh, like Jafar gaslit Aladdin at the Cave of Wonders. Yes, as he was,

yeah, he was like, just get the lamb. Yeah, and he pretended to be like when he came up as a little old man, He's like, oh, the cave, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Convinced him to go into the cave.

To do something. And then Space Jam, another favorite. Yeah. I feel like there was also a lot of gas lighting there. Oh, man. But I don't remember how or who. I know. I'm trying to think of my movies now.

I don't know. I'm not that quick on the draw. Well, you watch a lot of rom-coms. Less gaslighting there. Gosh, probably some books I read. Oh, yeah. There's some gaslighters in there. Can I just ask you, what's going on with women and books?

Because my wife is in a book club, and she's like, I can't read the book. They're so dark. Well, you're speaking about one genre And I don't know Like most books Like true crime murder I know I have a weird Kidnapping abductions

100% Give me a murder affair Kidnap all of it I know And I think I have a high threshold Because I was entertained By like unsolved mysteries In 2020 as a kid

Like that's what my family would watch And they wouldn't change the channel Like you were four years old watching 2020 Grow up fast And unself mysteries And like all these like rescue 9-1-1 Yeah like we I watched trauma from a young age on TV.

Do you think it caused trauma? I really do. No? If you watch trauma, does it cause trauma? No, but you know what? The one time I really was scared that I remember feeling like something's going to bad and happened to me. It was after Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped. Oh.

That messed me up. I was her age. Yes. That's right. Hated that one. That was horrible. All I can think of is that she now follows us on Instagram. Yes, I actually reached out to her, George.

To be on the show? No. Oh. We should get Elizabeth Smart on this show. Oh, my gosh. All right. She's, well, I watched a recent documentary with her, and she was so good. She's amazing.

Very poised. You watch her now, and you can tell the way she speaks about things. And she's done a lot of work. I mean, I would assume so much therapy and EMDR. I mean, I can't even imagine because of what she went through. I mean, horrific. It's just, oh, it's terrible. But she's able to, like, communicate it, talk about it.

Anyways, I just, I just DM her because I just. Did she respond? I just wanted to tell her that she did a great trouble. this documentary and that like she needed to hear that from you she responded george that's so nice i kind of freaked out i was like oh my gosh elizabeth smart just dammed me can i tell you this is off topic but i recently dmed a celebrity yes you did brittany spears no no but it's a different one on instagram i found this is the t we need and he didn't respond and i was a little bit sad because i was like you follow me and i didn't even follow you and you're not going to respond to my dm

will you say who it is yeah i'll tell you okay have you ever seen the show shrinking no well then You lost me. Oh, no, we got some nods, though, from the crew. What did you say? It's the neighbor's husband on shrinking. His name's Ted. Great actor. Love him on shrinking.

And I saw him follow him. I was like, oh, my gosh, Ted, huge fan of your work. Love shrinking. So good. Yeah. That's it. No response. Nothing.

Did it say red, though, at the bottom? I think it said scene. Oh, she. Oh, gosh. And it's like, you know when you're seen but not heard? That is a, that's me and Ted right now. Oh, man. Still a fan.

I bet Elizabeth would mess. message you back, George. Yeah, but now it feels weird to just message people for no reason. Just like, hey, do you see me? He was a little bit desperate. Well, I just was really proud of Elizabeth

after I watched a documentary. Yeah. So all that to say, I can, my capacity for kind of crazy stories. Handling, gaslighting, and toxicity. I know some people can't do it. I can.

So I don't know what that says about me. I don't know what it says about you. You can handle a lot of toxicity. Maybe I should, maybe I'm in the wrong profession. What should you be doing? Oh, a detective, investigator. You think you could be a good detective because you've read some books.

I'm just saying because I can handle that stuff more than like Whitney. Who doesn't want to read that stuff? She's like, no, thank you. I guarantee you couldn't find a missing person in your own house. What are you talking about, George Taylor? Let alone an abduction case. Listen, if you need someone stalked online, now that. I will find them for you. I am in my own right. I do feel like I'm a detective. That's true. I can stock anyone. Hey, I found out, yeah, Mark That's right. His old yacht. His yacht was in, you could see it. In Cabo. When we were in Cabo, this massive, like, half-cruise ship came flown by. And I found it on yachtfinder.com. Or vessel finder. Vessel finder. But then you had to get the name, location, and then I had to look up. Then you had to get the subscription and you're like, I'm not going to pay me for this. I didn't pay for it. Yeah. No, whatever. I can do detective work. I'm gaslighting you. Whatever. That's great. We get a lot of these calls on the Ramsey show, truthfully, where someone calls Now, we get one side of the story, and to be fair, we don't know the other side. Yes.

And I've got DMs from people saying, I can't believe what they said they were lying to you. That was my boyfriend on the line, and he's lying. And they're saying, the girlfriend DMs, yes, as he. And I'm like, oh, sorry, girl. Well, I just heard his side of the story because he called in. Yeah. If you want to call in until your side, you can. We have to assume you're telling us the truth.

We can try to dig a little bit, but you can make up stories for days. We recently had one, I think had some gaslighting in it. Oh, yeah. I think you were on the call. You were. The woman called in. This is a crazy story. And she said, my husband and I could not be further apart financially.

He shows up and there's a new car and he didn't tell me about it. He goes on vacations. It doesn't tell me. And she says he's on a vacation right now. And he doesn't invite me. And we said by himself? Yeah. I was like, wait, with friends?

Or she's like, no, by himself? And we were like, what? And then we said, what type of vacation? Because we thought maybe like a monastery. Yeah. You can do solo travel. Maybe he's going to meditate for a weekend. Like, I don't know.

A cruise. On a cruise. And Rachel says. By himself. Does he do these a lot? He's got a few more planned. And then I go, does he invite you? And she said, well, I asked him, I told him I was going to go on one jokingly.

And then next day he said, did you book it? And I said, no. And he said, good, because I don't want you to go. And I went, Amy, I think he's cheating on you. Yeah, I don't think this is good. I rarely make a blanket statement like I'm on Mori. Oh, he's for sure doing some weird stuff on that cruise. Mm-mm.

No. No. No. So I think there was some gas sliding there where he made her think she was the crazy one for being like, No, I'm not, what? What? I'm just going to cruise by myself. People go on cruises all the time.

That's insane that you would even insinuate anything's going on. Weirdo. Sorry. Sorry if any of you all solo cruise as they married male. She was shocked at the possibility. If you have, you're weird. I'm just saying it. That's weird.

So there you go. Gaslighting is a lot of the world. And here's what I was going to say to her. Here's my detective work. We got off the call. I remember this. Almost went back in the booth to say, hey, can I talk to Amy again? Because what I would have done is I would have gone on Facebook or Instagram.

and found the ship name, and people tag the ship name or location, and I would have found people presently on the ship posting pictures of their vacation, and I would have DM them and said, I will pay you $1,000 if you can find this man, show him a picture, and you can get him in any compromising position.

Like, if he's in a pool, chat, I don't care, I don't care what it is. You send me, you send me a picture, and I will, and I'll pay you the big bucks, yes. Wow. And then, you know what I'd do? Oh, man, I'd have so, I'm so evil. See, this is, this is what happens when you read crazy books.

This is the mother got awful in you. It is. No, no. What would you do? I don't, okay, so what do you do? Do you accidentally, like, send him a text, and then be like, oops? Didn't mean to send that picture, but it's him at a nightclub on this boat. I think I'd wait for him to get back.

Okay. And then would you have them, like, printed out in an album and been like, I hope you had a fun vacation? I went ahead and got you an album for it. I think outing it publicly, like big sign on the front, lawn, that kind of thing, with a poster of it. Oh, you would do it? Would you do it at your house? Now, if I was planning on moving, if it was like, hey, this marriage is over, I'm not going to live here much longer. Let's have some fun with this. Let the neighbors know.

Let the neighbors know. Because we all want the neighbors. You're a cheater. You're a cheater. Wow. Wow. Now, my second thought was... Why do we have adrenaline right now? I feel like this isn't going to happen. How do we know he was even telling the truth? Because a cruise is a great lie because you're like, I don't have reception. Now, that's true, too. Not paying for Wi-Fi. He could have been anywhere for a week. I just don't feel like he was that smart. I don't know why. I got that vibe. Yeah. I'm giving him too much credit as a gaslighter.

I know. Uh-uh. Weird. Well, Rachel, it's been a minute since we've done a good financial role play challenge. I think Rick's Boats may have been the last great one. Rick's Boats. Let's play that clip. Give him a taste.

Hey, ma'am, how can I help you here? Rick's Boats. I'm Rick. Pleasure to meet you. Do you own the store? My dad, Rick Sr., he was the owner, but I took it over with his passing just a few months ago. Rest in power, Rick. How can I help you, ma'am?

I'm sorry for your loss. Oh, I appreciate that. He was older than. a tick on a boat. Did he die on a boat? I grew up on the lake with my dad. Are you crying? Wow, what's your dad's name? I don't want to tell you his name. I recognize you. No, you don't, Rick. People loved it. It's funny. It got on hitch pretty quickly. Yeah. People were dying. There was tears. That's usually how improv goes. So we thought, let's bring it back. So our team made up some scenarios where there's some financial gaslighting happening.

And we're going to see, you know, it's a parent versus a child that's a landlord and a renter borrowing money from friends. So we're going to play these. We'll each play a character and we'll see who wins. Let us know in the comments who you think wins because it's very subjective. Rachel thinks she wins every round. And I tend to agree because she cares more about that than I do. Okay. So this first one, George, you're going to be the landlord. Okay. I'm either renter or tenant and I am moving out of my rental house. because my lease is up, and I email you, George, to ask when I can expect my security deposit to be reimbursed.

But you start gaslighting claiming that you need to keep the deposit for damages even though you can't name specific repairs. Wow. Okay. This is juicy. All right, you're ready? I love a world where you're renting from me. That's wild.

All right, you emailed me. Okay. I'm going to try to move to a position of power here where there's no trace, If it's a phone call, there was a phone call, but it's not in writing. Oh, okay. All right. Pick up. Ring.

Ring. Hello. Hi, Rachel. This is George calling, your landlord. Oh, hi, George. How are you? Good. Just wanted to touch base about your email.

Yeah, I'll have to withhold that security deposit due to some damages that I found when doing a perimeter check. Oh. Okay. What specific damages did you see? Well, there was some damage to the carpet. I saw a lot of scuffs and holes in the wall. Holes in the wall?

Yes, it may have been from you trying to hang up pictures poorly. Oh. I noticed you had some artwork. I can't even call it artwork because it wasn't. Is that art? I don't know. It's subjective. But all that to say, it's going to cost me a couple of grand just to try to get this ready for the new tenant.

So unfortunately, I'm going to have to keep it. Well, if you actually see that there's only one or two holes, and I don't mind patching them up because I can do it for under $20. Yeah, it's not really a. a DIY situation. We need this professionally done. And no offense to you, I'm sure you're great, but I need my guy out there to do it. Well, no, according to the contract. Oh, you read the contract. I did read the contract. Well, you'll notice in the contract, I made sure there was a line stipulating that I have 30 days to hire an inspector to verify all damages. Yes, but the damage had to be

at a certain extent. I think that's up to my interpretation. Okay, well, I need the before and after pictures emailed to me, please, because I make it with my attorney. Oh, wow. You took before pictures. I'd love to see those. I did right when I was moving it. I was so excited about your nice apartment. I look forward to that. I'll have my attorney call yours. And I went around and took pictures of everything. And you'll actually see that one of the holes was from a previous

tenant. Did you keep their deposit too? I made sure that all holes were patched up before you moved in. That's the kind of landlord I am. I don't think so. That's really sad you missed it because I see I'm trying to turn it. You should check your vision. I'm trying to turn it back on you. Trying to gaslight you.

That contract's ironclad. I wish you the best, though. Ralph, my attorney. I'll make sure to put that security deposit to good use fixing me up from all the damage you did. Appreciate your time, Rachel. Have a good day. Bye. My turn of me contacting you, bye.

I went litigious. Did you see that? You put up a good fight. You went immediately to my lawyers. I did. I just went. My lawyer, Ralph, we'll contact you. Ralph?

Didn't that sound like a good lawyer? No. Honestly, no. Ralph? I don't know. Ralph? Ralph, the lawyer. Just feels right.

That was a tough one. God, that was hard. But it's a good reminder. You gotta be like covering your butt when it comes to this stuff. Yes. Like when you rent a car, you gotta, I don't trust. They go, well, that was there before. Well, they do walk around with you and I've got, I get lazy with it.

I do like, you just walk out and get in the car and go. Oh, yeah, yeah. And so I try to do a quick, like, video of the outside. Just something, just like, I don't want to get to. Just to say, no, I have video and then that kind of. It's there. It was there before. Not pulling a fast one on old Georgie.

You're not going to gas light me. That is tough. Well, I do know one thing that I have been loving recently, though. it's all my cozy earth products. No lies there. No. No manipulation. No gas lighting there.

Because the quality, it holds so well. Like literally, just this weekend, we're at soccer games all Saturday, and I had my cozy earth joggers and sweater on because it was a little cold still here in Nashville. It was chilly. In the early mornings. And that's, I'm like, I just, I wear that stuff all the time. And so it's so comfortable. Oh, and my socks.

I wore my cozy earth socks with it, too. Are you sure they were cozy earth socks, Rachel? They work. Don't try to gaslight me because I Make sure on my left was cozy And on my right said Earth. I do love that. And I switched it. Like I made sure it was right. You know what I'm doing? I'm slowly trying to convert my wardrobe to where I only have cozy earth socks.

Yes. You know what I mean? Only have cozy earth joggers. Now that's a boozy life right there. So I'm slowly collecting that. That's kind of my new thing because I don't have hobbies. And so make it your hobby to live life a little more comfortably. Go to cozy earth.com slash smart money. You can get up to 20% off when you use code smart money at checkout. We'll also drop a link in the description. Okay, George, next up.

Oh, this is fun. Okay. I'm the lender. We're friends. Okay. Friend to friend. All right. But I'm the lender.

You're the borrower. And I lent you $500 last month for rents. And I need to... I was short on rent. And I need to get it back. How irresponsible are you? Unbelievable. Well, clearly I'm going through something, Rachel.

Thanks for the compassion to kick it off here. Okay. So what else is happening in this scenario? Give me more. I'm a little hesitant because you've not paid me back. fully in past transactions we've done together. Whoa. And yeah, so here we go.

I need to get my money back. Okay, Rachel, you can do this. Where are we meeting up? Is this in person? If like a coffee shop, it should be on like your playing level in your world. Because you wouldn't darken the door of a coffee shop. I don't really go to coffee shops. Yeah, it makes sense.

Okay. Feels like an easy escape too. I feel like they have multiple doors. Yeah. Okay. You can just leave. Hey, George. Hey, Rachel, what's going on?

How are you? You drinking a cold brew? I am today, actually. Yeah, I did. Yeah, it's a single origin. Can I get you one? Very nice. No, no.

Okay. I'd rather you save your money, George. Really? For what? Yeah, I know. I was just seeing where you're at with the $500 that I lent you last month to cover your rent. My husband Winston and I, we are planning a birthday party for our 10-year-old. And...

That's nice. We need some cash. Aren't you the queen of budgeting? It feels like you'd be able to do that so easily. You wouldn't be strapped for it. But I had $500 extra of income this month thinking you were paying me back, so I've already included it in my expenses. And so to kind of trip the budget, yeah.

You know what's funny, though? You never gave me an actual timeline of when I needed to pay it back. Okay, because you just said I just needed it for this month and I can make sure that I'll be fine. I never said I can get it back to you the next month. Okay. So when do you think is the next time you will have? $500 cash. I don't think now is the time to get into details. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Okay. Okay. But I should have it sometime in the near future. Okay. You're going to be drinking a lot of cold brews between now and then? Because you could just do, I can put you on payment plan. I'm not comfortable on payment plans. $5? Yeah. It's like an afterpay Rachel? Well, I follow this financial, like, influencer Rachel Cruz on Instagram, and she said payment plans are never a good idea.

Never a good idea. Because of that, I've stayed away from them. Even to keep a relationship going somewhat. of a trustworthy, you know, connection. It's not completely broken. It's like just a little good faith, you know. Amelia's really, she's wanting a swim birthday party with new floats and new games. Sounds like she needs to learn a little contentment

and be happy with the party she gets. And honestly, I didn't know a healthy relationship keeps score like that. You know what I mean? I also, yeah, didn't know that a healthy relationship with disrespect the other person so much to tell them that they won't give them a timeframe which their hard-earned money was given to you, which I don't know. Do you work?

I do have a job. Yes, I'm employed. Okay, good. I'm glad. Yeah, it just got laid off. Thanks for asking. You know that if you were a friend. I put it on my Instagram story. Oh, did you? And looking for work on my LinkedIn. I know you follow me over there. But no, it's okay. I know you've been really busy. I just saw you guys went to a trip to Italy and bought a new car. And so I know that's taken up a lot of your time. I'm going to really try hard. As soon as I get a job again, I'm going to get you that money back. Wow. Yeah.

Thanks for being such a good friend. No, you're so great. And enjoy your $5 cold brew. Thank you. Because it looks like you have five bucks, so that's good for you. Well, I was going to buy you a coffee. Oh, so you have $10? Great.

So you could give me that and you could have owe me $900 and $490. Yeah, you know what? I'll buy you a coffee and I'll owe you $4.95. Oh, that sounds good. As soon as I get that job, I'll be in touch. You know, George? You have a birthday party. I feel sorry.

I don't want to keep you, Rachel. No, I just feel bad for. for you. Are you, you, I appreciate that. You know, a little empathy from you is rare, so I appreciate the compassion. Oh, George. You're such a good friend. Enjoy the new Lexus I saw out there. It looks beautiful. N-C. That's a tough one. Man, I tried to like belittle you. You know how some people like, be a little me? Just like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I do that. I do that? No, I tried to do that to you to make you feel bad. Oh, you know what some people do what I just said to you. The thing that you underestimate is that I have no shame.

Mm-hmm. And I think it's really hard to deal with someone who has no shame. Yeah. It's just all out there and they're fine with it. Yes. Yeah. Like I've got some of those aggressive friends in my life who you're like, it's so hard to say no or to confront them because they can just, no argument now. Yes.

Just deflate it instantly. And I think that's a form of gaslighting. That's manipulation in and of itself. Especially if you go on a, what's it called like in Congress? A filibuster. Oh, that's a great word. just solo filibust you. And they just talk and talk to talk.

And then you're like, I don't even know where you're going with this conversation. I can't figure out a way out of it. My points now I'm so lost because of where you're taking us, yeah, not good. Not good.

And have you ever lent a friend money? I'm going to be honest. I don't. I mean, unless it was a situation of like, oh yeah, I'll grab dinner and someone's going to like VIN. I mean like. A small amount.

That kind of stuff. Not like, hey, I need 500 bucks for that's why. No. We've had situations where we've given people money. Just that's, That's the key. That's it. Just give it.

It just feels so much better. You're like, I have no expectations. So never lend it. And if you can and want to give it, give it with no strings attached. Yes. And if you can't give it, just say no. And for some people, and they won't even say it during the interaction, but like later, like a year later, they're like, hey, they like, you know, this happened to us. They wrote us to check back for the amount that we gave them because they're like, we just want to true it up.

Because we just weren't out of place and now we are. And we just want to say that kind of thing, which I was not expecting. and actually kind of was like, no, don't worry about it, but they so much wanted to. So that's happened, but. It does change and relate, even in this. I was like, this is icky. I don't like role-playing this.

Yes, I don't like, yeah. Me owing you money. It's like, I don't even want to see Rachel now. I want to avoid her at all costs. I know. It is awkward. Yeah, so if you have the money, make sure, if you're going to help anyone in any situation,

it needs to be an amount of money that you can again just let go of and not expect any of return. It's not going to hurt your financial future. Yep. And then that is the most freeing way. Because then you become resentful. They feel guilty and shame. that it's just a spiral and the relationship is gone. Yes.

I've never seen it work out where they're like BFF later on. There's always a little negative tilt to the relationship. Someone soured there. All right. Next one. Oh, this is funny. I'm the parent. You're the adult child.

I'm your child. You're in your 50s, this says, and I'm in my 80s. Okay. I'm trying to picture this. You're 85. Oh, my gosh. I'm 55. I'm going to look like this one.

I'm 80. with like so much work just i'm just kidding just you couldn't move a muscle on that thing okay um and you're wondering what my financial plans look like and oh gosh and i'm gonna need more permanent health care like a nursing home oh no some long-term care i get defensive and gas lines hey you don't have anything to worry about i can handle it i'm perfectly capable okay oh my gosh i'm ready mother okay hi george hey mom how's it going i'm good just sipping on my drink. How are you doing?

Have you been taking your medication every day? You seem a little bit out of it, so I just wanted to make sure you were okay. I'd take a double sometimes. Wait, Mom, are you, is that alcohol? I don't know. Mom, you know you can't drink while you're on your meds. Your doctor told you about this. It's okay, I'm 80.

I knew what I want. Oh, my goodness. This is going to be me. Oh, I'm 80? We got to talk here. I need a Chanel purse, too. I feel like that's me, Rachel, at 80. I know, Mom, but I'm worried about you.

Why? Well, ever since dad's been gone. Why don't he's so country? Wow. Ever since dad's been gone, I know you've been, it's been a struggle financially. Start bawling. Winston. Why?

I miss him. I miss dad too, Mom. But he was 96. He had a good life. Was he that? How much older than me? Wow. I was young.

Yeah, I mean, you were, what, 18, 19 as the crow flies when you guys got married? Isn't that for distance, George? Could be, but in the South, that's just what we say. But ever since then, I know, like, you guys didn't really have a financial plan. What? I mean, how are you even covering the mortgage and all of your bills and all the work you've got done, clearly? I got a reverse mortgage, George. Oh, no, mom.

And credit cards. Stop watching TV. Was it one of those Tom Selleck? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Got a walk-in bathtub, too. No. And gold. Mom, you know you can't afford this, right?

It's going to be fine. I'm going to die in four years, George. Well, that's what I want to talk about. That's great. Can you not smoke in the house, Mom? Please don't smoke in the house. Oh, George, you're so worried about everything. It's fine. We're never going to be able to sell this place if it reeks of cigarettes. No, you can have it.

I'll put it in my will. But then you probably won't have much. Because I have so much. Well, there's a reverse mortgage on it, so. Yeah, you won't get anything. The lender's going to take it. George, you do it okay. We're doing fine.

My wife and I are doing great. Well, good. And don't you worry about me? Well, I am worried, Mom, because I want the best for you. And I think the best next step is for you. We found a great place. It's just down the street. Are you shipping me away, George?

I don't think shipping. We're going to drive you there. It'll be great. They got Bingo. Oh. They got Wheel of Fortune. I know you love to watch Wheel of Fortune every night. I like watching all of Fortune.

And they do some karaoke nights I know you love to sing Do I in my old age? Well you're not good at But you love to do it mom My shame has gone down That's right When I was younger George

I'd never sing in public But now You love it I'm a songbird Well I think you're gonna You're gonna love this place I know you're a very social butterfly And the community here is amazing

They're gonna take good care of you So would you mind if we take a tour tomorrow? Sure 3 p.m? I'm supposed to say no right Too late? You said sure end scene got mom to do the tour Oh, that was hard

Yeah, I mean you're on the sauce Yeah, but you did dangle social in front of me If I can be with people That's what I said, I was like, you're isolated You're not in my face life ever since dad's been gone Just crazy, he died on the boat Just wouldn't have Wouldn't have thunk it?

Mm-mm. Wow. That is hard though. The adult child to parent Whole situation, those are tough conversations though. We get that call a lot on the Ramsey show. How do I talk to my mom and dad who didn't prepare financially? They are broke. And we don't want them to live with us. And they're sort of assuming and hinting that, well, I'll just come live with you guys.

And you have to put up this boundary and say, I'm going to help you get on a budget. We're going to figure this out because you can't live with us. That's not the next minute. And that's especially depending on the situation, how dire it is, of how you step in and basically help control the situation and the finances if you can. right? Yeah. Because that is a hard one, because you're not going to let your parents

live on the street. Like, I mean, that's, you know, they may make some bad choices like reverse mortgages or whatever. And you can't stop them. You can't stop them. And then, you know, but the thing is, too,

their debt does not come to you in death. That's true. It goes against the estate, yeah. Whatever assets they have. It's hard. I mean, a lot of parents do not listen to their kids with this kind of stuff.

They just do what they want. And so... They don't want to hear it. Or they have too much kind of shame or baggage or guilt. And they go, No, you don't need to deal with that. Yes, yes.

Yeah, that's hard. Ugh. Those are probably my least favorite scenarios. Not fun. I know. It's really sad. A lot of sadness there. And there's not a lot of time.

They can't work a lot of time. So there's not a whole lot you can do. I know. I think, okay, are you making anything from Social Security that, you know. Totally. Medicare that we can use to cover you? Oh, it's so difficult. Or get on a plane with the siblings to go, hey, we're going to chip in a few hundred bucks a month to cover this care or life.

It's so sad. But you got to go, hey, you can't live this lifestyle you want to live. No. So there's a gap from homelessness to bougie life. Sure, 100%. But you did mention nursing home in our segment,

but getting long-term care insurance when you're 60 or older is really important because that stuff is expensive. Whether you have, you know, you're going somewhere or if you have in-home care? Yeah.

Someone coming to the house like all that. I mean, you're talking six figures a year. So you could burn through 300 grand in two years in nursing home. I know, yeah. So things to think about, oh, man. Well, I'll say one thing, though, George,

that Winston and I made a change and I'm so thankful, we did is we started banking with Fairwin's Credit Union. And we opened up an account online, and it was so easy to do. Like, I was shocked. Like, the whole experience of doing it, it was so simple, and it just showed you screen by screen what to fill out. And then actually the next day, I had someone call me from Fairwinns. I thought I was special.

I guess everyone calls. No, they call everyone. They call every customer if they come through the Ramsey link. Yes. I found that out. Oh, through the Ramsey link. Yes. Isn't that cool?

Yes. So if you guys go to fair ones.org slash Ramsey, you can sign up for the smart bundle because it's a high-yield savings account and a checky account, which you get your Ramsey be weird. debit card, it's blue. It's so great. And it's just a great place to organize your money, keep your money, and bank out of Fairwin's Credit Union. Yeah, check it out. We'll drop a link in the description as well. But fairwins.org slash Ramsey, easiest place to go. You'll be signed up within minutes. So good. Okay, George, let's debunk some common self gaslighting lies. A little rapid fire. I forgot you can gaslight yourself. It's probably the most common person we lied to. Put yourself in a bad position. Okay, one, you deserve it. Just charge it on a credit card.

Oh, boy. Yeah, this is a hard one. That's the wrong part of your brain talking. I know. That's your heart. It's the instant gratification of like, I just want something. I've worked hard. It's been a hard season of life, like whatever it is. Even though I don't have the money, just buy it because, oh, it's just easier. Just do it. We can turn down the guilt and shame lever if we just ramp up the justification lever. Yes. Well, go, wow. I mean, it'll be fine. I know. And I do deserve it. It was a hard week. So it's so easy to convince yourself to do something you know isn't good for you long term. But then what's hard to is on the back end, like you're paying for that months, sometimes even years depending on the purchase. So not great. All right. Next, it's only a

$300 payment, everyone has car loans. Oh. This is the, well, everyone's doing it, so how bad can it be? How bad could it be? It feels like everyone has a car loan. I mean, what are you talking about? I'm going with the flow. I know. So, yeah, again, justification of, yeah, getting in debt and staying in debt. Because in this mindset, when the loan is paid off, a lot of people go get a new car, re-up,

you know, and so they just stay in that cycle. And they go, well, that was a little down payment there. And they just restart the cycle. But this is one that's hard to break. but once you break it, you never go back. I've never met someone who stops the car payment, pays for a car in cash, and then goes back in debt.

Yes, rarely, rarely does that happen? Renting is throwing your money away. Oh. This is a hard one because it feels like that. I can see that. Like you're crazy if you rent. Why would you not want to build some equity? Right, because it does feel like it's a lot of money

that you're paying for rent and it's not doing anything for you, quote-unquote, in the future. But what it is buying you is time and patience, and you really have that, it gives you that margin on your timeline because if you go and buy a house, which is like the largest purchase most people make, and you get stressed out,

that home becomes a point of tension for you and your family for a long time. Like when you can't afford that payment and something breaks in the house or whatever, like it just causes a lot, a lot of stress. Versus renting, you've got so much flexibility. You have so much flexibility, and you're not married to it.

Like, it's just, it is. There is a level of freedom there while you get out of debt or get an emergency fund, save up a down payment. Well, some of the most heartbreaking calls, we just took one this week. This guy called in and said, hey, I think we need to sell the house because it's over 50% of our take-home pay. And he goes, well, we were making good money at the time. But then my wife, who was the breadwinner, decided she wanted to stay home when she had a kid, which is a noble, wonderful thing.

But now you have to have the conversation, all right, either she goes back to work and you get child care or you need to move. like there was three things they could do, but all of them are not fun. Yes. They all involve a lot of sacrifice and hard work. And so you've got to think about that ahead of time as what does the next 10 years look like before you sign up for this mortgage payment. Yeah, which is a good point too, because the bank will give you a lot more money than what you need for my house. You will think, wow, we are rich. So do not, yeah, do not max it out of what they'll give you. Because again, that margin gives you room to make other life choices. But when you're maxed out with it, you're kind of stuck in the life you have, which is not always fun. Which is why we recommend no more than 25% of

your after-tax monthly income, go towards your housing costs like your mortgage, you know, the principal interest, taxes, insurance, all of that. Investing is only for rich people. Ooh, so you've just self-selected out. It's not for me. That's for somebody else out there. Who am I to be investing? That's such a big, I'm not on Wall Street.

That's a scary one. Because if you think that it's only for rich people, you will never become wealthy. Yeah. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, because if you never invest, it's hard to build wealth. So, yeah, to your point. So I think this is a financial literacy issue. People just don't know so they don't do it.

And they just go, well, I don't want to mess it up. And it's confusing. It's overwhelming. It stresses me out. And therefore I won't touch it. Yes. And I won't ever seek out help from like a professional financial advisor to help me with this. Yeah, I would always say that's the first step.

People always ask, like, what do I do? I would sit down with someone who's in the industry who knows what's going on to teach you, to kind of guide you in simple investments. Like they'll help you look at like a Roth IRA or. talk about your 401k at work. Like, they're going to be able to really guide you in some of this stuff. So I do think having someone in your corner that's helping you in your specific situation with your specific numbers is really great. That's true.

And you know, I just thought of a great resource we have. It's free on our website. It's our investing guide. I will drop a link in the description to that. That is all the financial literacy you need to get started investing. So no excuses now. No excuses. All right.

Next one, we got to debunk. You have to have credit cards to be an adult, Rachel. Oh, just gaslighting yourself into a system that is so against you. I just can't do it. I really can't. Nobody gaslights you more than the credit card companies. My gosh. You deserve it.

This is freedom to spend. What do you mean? Get this so you get airline miles. Why would you wait? Build your credit. You can get points. You can get points. That's what all their marketing sounds like.

Easy and fun and all the things. You get to go to the airport lounge if you get this special card and it's this thick. You know what you will have told me and I've talked to a few people recently in my life that, yeah, they were like, yes, I stayed on budget and we like stayed within our means, X, Y, and Z, and then we got a credit card, and we started spending more. Like, there is, and the data proves that studies have been done, that you spend 12 to 18% more on a credit card. And it is true, y'all. I'm telling you, if you spend with cash or spend with a debit card, you are going to spend less, period.

And I bet the amount of money you save over a year will pay for the airline tickets. Oh, 100%. You know what I mean. That's where I tell people, if you get 2% cash back on your card, I'm getting. guaranteeing you that if you use a budget and you stick to debit or cash that you actually have, you will save more than 2% on what you would have spent on a card. 100%. I wish I could do a study on that, but it's hard to convince people to do that.

I know, I know. Oh, the credit cards. That's a big one we hear, and the truth is we're adults, and Rachel and I don't have credit cards. It's true. It's really not that hard. It's honestly, it's a nothing burger once you live with that one. 100%. You go, wow, they made it sound like I was going to be dangerously living on the edge to my debit card. I know, I know.

All right, you can't save on this income. Someone's making something like you can't save. And this is a hard one because in order to save, if you are paycheck to paycheck, there are things you're going to have to do differently in your life. So whether that is upping the income or cutting things out. So if you are in that paycheck to paycheck cycle, it can feel like that you can't save. But that means that you're going to have to make some little hard choices to cut back

because saving is so crucial though. Like it's worth the sacrifices to have that money. whether it's with an emergency fund or your funding retirement for your future self, it is worth those sacrifices. And it's a priority issue. I mean, you've got to prioritize savings to make it happen. You've got to put that away first before doing the other things. Now, you've got to cover your four walls, your food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, all that good stuff. But beyond that, before you touch anything of your wants, your lifestyle stuff, put the money away in savings and get that $1,000 start or emergency fund done fast. But the fallacy here is that your individual

income is immovable. Oh, that's a good point, too. That's what they're saying. Yeah. Well, you can't save on this income, and I'll always make $16 an hour, so I guess the Ramsey plan doesn't work for me. And we meet people on the debt-free stage, and they always say, well, I started at this income, but it ended up over here because I took on side jobs or I worked my

butt off and got the promotion. Yeah, or over time. Over three years, you should be making more money than you're making today in general. So, like, your income should be going up, right? And you may take a different job, and you take a little bit of a pay cut, whatever that looks like, but over the course of your life, you should be making more money. And sometimes you do need a legit career change because you're just in a feel that doesn't have a big ceiling to it. And you do need to go get skills or education or, you know, network and

start to move over there. But it can be done. All right, last but not least, student loans are good debt. Oh, boy. This is what we heard all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean, the number of thing I hear with this is, well, it's an investment in your future, Rachel. You don't care about the kids' futures? Care about the future? Wow. And I know. At what cost? Well, that, and then the number of the, the reality that a diploma in college does not guarantee that you're going to be successful. It doesn't guarantee that you're going to get a job. Especially in today's world. Yes, it's changed so much.

It used to be impressive, and now it's like, well, it's a thing you could check off. Yeah, and everyone can get it basically, right? Because of student loans, anyone can go to school. And we're all for education, right? Like, I mean, we are saving for our kids to go to college. So I'm not bashing education. But this idea that you're going to be deeply in debt. And when you open up the road of debt, suddenly money feels like monopoly money to a degree,

to an 18-year-old. Especially if you say it's good debt. Well, you're like, oh, I got to get more of it. Yeah, because you're like, I don't know, 60,000 versus 90. It's only $30,000 difference. Like, I don't know, is it that big of a deal, but I really want to go to that school. And so I'm just going to do it. And then you look like, that's an extra 18 months of paying off debt or whatever it looks like for you.

You know what I mean? Like, it's, it does. It costs you. So. We had a call on the Ramsey show. It was Dave Ramsey and I, and it was like a woman had a, she had a degree in social work and went like $250,000 into debt for this thing. And now she's making like $45,000. thousand dollars and she's like how do i get out of this there's not a lot of good solutions when the

math is that you know weighted against you so and you can't bankrupt student loans either so there sally may made sure of that there there oh man dangerous that is that is crazy you know what else is so much gaslighting so much gas lighting and danger and also having your personal info online very dangerous absolutely that's why we love delete me because delete me will go in and remove your data from data broker sites that collect your data and they sell it to other companies. So you get spam and scams and fishing and like all of it. And it's just so annoying. And so removing your data online, so important to do today. And it's so much easier than it ever was before because I've tried to fill out those forms online when I would find an address or,

you know, my family's information on there. And it took a long time and I had to track it and make sure they actually removed it and check back on that website. And to have a real data privacy expert do that for me behind the scenes and just send me the report, absolutely worth it. And they've made it super affordable for the smart money happy to our fans out there. 20% off their annual plans when you go to join delete me.com slash smart money or you can use the link in the description. And let me tell you, don't gaslight yourself thinking it's not going to happen to me, Rachel. That's crazy. That's right. That's a gaslighting yourself. Yes. Don't do it.

So sign it up. Sign up for it. All right, before we spill the tea in our guiltiest charge segments, what's the details of the drink, George? This is the mango mohito mocktail. It's nice. It's got mango. I don't know what that means. Is it mango puree? Is it actual fruit? What are we talking?

Fresh mango puree. Fresh mango puree. Wow. Thank you, team. I didn't even know how you guys pured a mango back there. We don't have a kitchen. This is impressive. So impressive.

It's got mango, fresh lime juice, mint, simple syrup, and sparkling water. Comes out to $1.34. That's pretty cheap. I'm so good, I know. When you're talking mangoes, limes, mint. When I think Mojito, too, I think a pool or a beach. Yes. This is a great one to have poolside.

Yes. I like it. I like it better now than I did. As it sat. Yeah, when I first drank it, it was like a little bland or like kind of watery or something. Yeah, I wonder if the, because the puree kind of floated to the bottom. Yes. And now I'm getting a lot of mint and lime, which I love.

Yeah, the more of the mint sits, too. It's sort of. I'm going eight out of ten. Wow. Yeah, I'll go eight out of ten as well. What I want is more mango, more lime. Like, I want it to be punchier. I'd go more mango.

Almost more like a nectar where it's a little thicker versus kind of a water, water down version. But it's really nice. So good. Love it. So get the recipe in the show notes. Give it a try this weekend. And this is one that the kids can enjoy too.

That's right. All right. Now it's time for. Guilty as charged. And this is where we ask each other a guilty as charge question every week. And if we're guilty, take a sip. All right, George, what is one frivolous? expense, you're guilty of splurging on before kids.

Oh. I can't even remember life before kids. I mean, for you, it was eons ago. Eons ago. Because your oldest is how old? I know. She'll be 11 next week. Wow.

Little Amelia's all grown up. I know. Okay, so 11, 12 years ago, what were you guys spending on that you look back and go, wow, simpler times that we were just blowing money here? A big splurge before kids. My gosh. Now it's all for the kids. That's all for the kids

I feel like we went out to eat a lot Just you two Yes Every night I was like I'm gonna go out And I feel like Yes I feel like we were like

Oh yeah Like we didn't cook a ton Yeah I'm trying to think back Yeah I would say food Probably That's not one like It's like frivolous

See I need I need one Frivolous Expat No frivolous is such a That's a weighted word Yeah Do you have one? I'm just trying to think of things

That was kind of a waste Or like not a waste But things that I'm like I couldn't do that today. And so for me, that might be the fancy gym membership. Yes. Now, we got a discount through the Ramsey Health Insurance here, so it was probably like $130 a person for like the lifetime fitness.

Yep. And I'd go to like the sauna or whatever and do it a quick workout and then off to the sauna. Ah, that's really good. So now it's like that would be a real, wow, what a frivolous treat. That would be disappeared to the gym for four hours. I was going to say we dropped a golf membership that Winston had. Oh. Yep.

Has he golf since? Poor guy. I know. He wasn't like a mat. He wasn't like he's not an avid golfer. He was a bandwagon like well the guys are doing it. Yeah, he could do it. Yeah. Pick up a club. Wow. A club or two with the guys. But yeah, so we dropped that. Dang. So that may be it. Maybe it's that one because that was expensive per month.

Hundreds of dollars. And a lot. Yeah. So ladies, if you ever need, if your husband golfs, I feel like you can justify pretty much anything monthly. That's right. You go, well, you've got $500 a month on golf. So true. Who cares if I get my nails done? I'm going to do it.

All right. Well, if you have a guilty charge question for us, make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Camel because we get them and we see them and we're thankful for them. We love them. And if you love this episode,

you may love the next episode. Love and Money, financial decisions, people immediately regret. We'll leave a link for you. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all-new episode of. Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers.