Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - How Does Your Net Worth Compare to the Average American?

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

📈 Are you on track with the Baby Steps? Get a free personalized plan. Does your current net worth feel like a power move or a bad punch line? In this episode, Rachel and George break down how what you’ve got compares to the average American by age and why it matters for your future. Next Steps: 🎥 Watch our video Do We Have It Harder Financially Than Our Parents? 🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour    📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it.  💵 The simplest way to budget. Download the EveryDollar app for free!   Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Get up to 40% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth. Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🥃 Banana Old-Fashioned Recipe: @parttimemixologist 2 ounces bourbon 1/4 ounce banana syrup 3–4 dashes black walnut bitters Instructions: Add all ingredients to a glass with ice and stir.   Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yes, comparison is the thief of joy, but also, how do you stack up against the average American financially? Today, we're practicing safe comparison. Oh, boy, I was really hoping for more, because what we see there, it didn't go up by that $100,000. Are we just not enough for you? I hope your children feel encouraged in life, George. I'm glad we have a drink because this is a sobering episode. I'll tell you that much. Hey, guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel.

And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts. talk about what you're talking about. Everything from pop culture, current events, and money. Before we get to the content, let's talk about what we're sipping on. I love it. It's a specific fruit that I'm okay with. It's not my favorite fruit, but man, delicious. Let me tell you, this is a banana old-fashioned, and I hate bananas vehemently. That's one of my fun facts. Yeah, but I really enjoy this drink, surprisingly. Yeah, it's not too strong. That's how good it is. So stick around to the end. We're going to give you our rating and reveal the cost per glass. You don't want to

miss it. Have you ever been at a church event or maybe fighting for your life in the cold and flu aisle at Target? And someone says, how are you really? I don't like that energy personally. Yeah, because it does feel like I don't want to be one of those people that's just like, oh, how are you? You want to be like, I want to get to the depths. But it's always come from someone who I don't want to talk to at length. Isn't that so true? My friend, my truest friends don't ask that. You're like, Sandra, I'm not going to, I don't really want to tell you what I'm like. I just tell my friends. I'm fine. That's right. That's right. I don't need to dissect it in Walgreens with Sandra.

I get it. Well, I do think, though, how are you really is true when it comes to money? Because we hear from you guys listening and watching a lot that people love to know how they stack up against other people when it comes to their money, whether it's like debt levels, income levels, housing even. Like, how is my house compared to the median house in America? I mean, there's a ton of comparison. And not a little of it's bad. I think there's a natural curiosity.

How am I doing? So today we're going to focus on the healthy side where it's more of, I just want to understand my progress. And so we're going to talk about that. And we have some stats that will help paint a picture of what money looks like for the average American. And as two net worth millionaires, we're going to share what our paths have looked like so far as well.

And then most importantly, we are going to talk about the actual measuring stick that you should be comparing your life against and how to get to a place financially where you do feel safe and secure because that's the goal. Yes, and I'll say based on these numbers, everyone's going to feel like they're doing pretty good.

So if you're listening to this show, you're probably on the right track, if you know what I mean. So the data we have starts with the age range of 35 and under, which we can all agree is a pretty wide range. I'm assuming we're talking about adults here and not a baby's net worth. I would agree with that. Although some babies are doing great.

If you've got a 529 plan and no debt, you're doing better than most Americans. Or if you're the Olson twins. I don't know why I thought the Olson twins. Thing about that? They were working since birth. They're doing great. God bless them.

Are they thrive? I think they're thriving now. Oh no, I think they are. There's probably a period of time in there that was a dark time. It was probably on your prayer list. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, the Olson twins were never on the prayer list.

You know, I think I may be putting Katie Perry on it. Is she next? I don't know. She went to space. I just want to make sure she's okay, you know? Went to space. I think she's okay. I don't think everyone's okay with her.

It's a very different scenario. Yeah, I know. But anyways, it's great. No, the Olsen twins, I just feel like, yeah, there's some kids, you know, once-in-a-lifetime opportunities as babies and you're making a lot of money. So their net worth is more than ours, probably, at the age of nine months. A lot of time for compound growth-induced thing. That's right.

Well, since our life and financial changes fall more on our 20s versus 30s, we're going to share our personal money milestones based on those two decades first. So let's start with 20s. Okay. Let's talk about where Rachel Cruz was or Rachel Ruez. Ramsey. That's right. As she was known.

As I was known. That's right. Back in college. I know. I did a lot in my 20s. So I, as of from today's standards, from like life situations, I think I did things earlier than most people are. Meaning I got married, had kids in my 20s and stuff. So I'd say, yeah, I got married.

Winston and I started off working. And I will say we were both very blessed that our school was paid for. So we did not start off. with student loan. So I see that as like a huge head start in our money journey. I do not think we just got here because of us. We were very much set up so well. So I do want to thank our parents for that.

Because honestly, when you start off financially without student loan debt as a 21-year-old and you're graduating, like when you get your first salary, your first paycheck, that's yours that you get to start building wealth with pretty immediately, right, besides the emergency fund. So that is a huge head start that we had. So I'm very grateful for that. So yeah, we started doing that. We got a dog in our 20s.

We bought a house and we did it out of the recession. We was basically still in the middle of the recession. You got a deal. We got a deal, which was very nice. Yeah, so I feel like we had some luck on our ends with all of that. And then we didn't really do much. I would say in our mid-20s, I mean, we just invested in that. And then we had kids.

Kids came in my late 20s. I had two kids in my 20s. Wow. And I had 27 and 29. So only Charles. was into your 30s. Okay. Yeah.

So that was us. So we lived a lot of life. First house, first dog, two kids, and a 401k. Beautiful. So yeah, that was my 20s. What was yours, George? What'd you do? A little different.

I had some, my growth was stunted financially and physically, obviously. We're going to focus on the financial part today. Okay. I don't know how to fix the physical one, but I fixed the financial one. So I graduated in my 20s with 36 grand in student loan debt. I had about $4,000 and $4,000. credit card debt. And even then, there was a pretty quick turnaround from, you know, 23 to 25 where I paid off my consumer debt, got the emergency fund in place.

Which is, you did all that in two years? Yeah. Okay. About 18 months from going 40 grand in debt to no debt. How much were you making during that time? Do you remember? Probably, I would say upper 30s, maybe in like around 40 plus with side hustles. I mean, do you like literally live on half of that? Oh, yeah. No, I did a lot of side hustles. I was like building websites, marketing, consulting, Uber and Lyft, and, you know, I was all about the side hustles. Which those would have been new during that time. Uber and Lyft?

They were new to Nashville, and so I got a thousand dollar bonus from each of them because they were new to the Nashville area. Stop it. And they were like desperate for drivers. That's a great story. So that really helped. I made two grand from that. I was doing music gigs and licensing stuff.

And so I was just trying to find money anywhere I could. Okay, so you're making a couple thousand here there just by that concept. And even the marketing consulting, I think I probably made like 20 grand in a year. So I effectively gave myself a 50% raise. You were a consultant at what, age 20, Yeah. I was working. My buddy had an agency, so he'd work with clients, and I was like, I can build websites and help you launch a podcast and do all these things. Yes. Help you launch a book. And so that was really fun. But I know who the person is.

Yeah. Kevin, Kevin Jennings. Was it really? I did not realize that. Yes. I was Kevin Jennings. Still one of my best friends to this day. Is he? He always made me smile with his with his bow ties. Boatty guy. Mr. Kevin. So yeah, he was so great, gave me an opportunity to help his clients and that helped me get out of debt faster. Look at you, George. So I did all of that. And I bought a house. house and got married. And so a lot of life happened.

Buy a house first or got married first? Married first. Married and then how fast did you and Whitney buy a house? That was a year after. Once we got married, I was in a much better place. So when I married Whitney, she was debt free. She was like you got college paid for, was in a great place financially. And I was kind of holding us back.

But once we got married, we were in an awesome place. And we were able to save up a down payment with our dual income, no kids, no dogs yet. And so we just, yeah, we just saved. saved up aggressively and then ended up paying off our house as we entered our 30s. Okay, that's amazing. So that was kind of my money journey that I went from negative net worth to millionaire in 10 years. Yes. From 23 to 33.

And so all that to say, no matter where you're starting, a lot can change in a decade. And I love this quote. Most people overestimate what they can accomplish in a year. They underestimate what they can accomplish in a decade. So it's comforting because it looks like, oh, my gosh, how are we going to do this? And yet, in a year, only so much progress is made. But if you look at a 10-year picture,

33 is going to be very different than 23. Totally. Oh, that's great, George. Good for you. So when you hit 30, what happened there? Oh, boy. Well, you know, I... Because you're what, right now?

I'm 36. Okay, and I'm 37. Congratulations. I'm catching up. You are slowly but surely. Okay, so... More dogs. Yes.

More kids. Okay. We bought another house, paid off that house. And so I think it was... It felt easier because you kind of know what's coming. But having a kid added a layer of just like...

Y'all are going to move again. This is going to be all's third house. We love to move. The camels, about every three years we go, it's time. What if we just had pain and suffering in our life? What if we just continued this craziness? And every time we move, we're like,

we didn't need to do that. But it's just, I think we always love a little challenge. You think you'll be like that? I've had friends like that where they move every four to five years. I think I'm done after, because I'm currently packing up our house and I'm like, why did we do this to ourselves? So funny. So I don't know if it's a milestone.

But, you know. When did you have me at? How old were you when you had me at? 30. 34? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's about to be two.

Yes, okay. Okay. And then the two dogs and then. Two French bulldogs. We got another kid on the way. Okay. Surprise. I don't know if they knew that, but now you do.

By the time this airs, I think this child will be on this earth. Maybe. Could be? No? Not quite. I'm being told. I'm being told the baby is not born yet. Who knows?

So there's a lot of excitement. and we're, I'm very privileged in my own way to have the life that I have and have this blessing. You know, there's a lot of this like, I don't deserve to have a life this good. You know what I mean? Like, 23-year-old George is like, what?

Yeah. Like, look at your life. I know. Your family, your house, the dog, everything. And you know what? There's something to say about that because I do think we can live life looking at the next thing.

And it's like the stuff you've prayed for, it's here. Like, you know what I mean? I feel that sometimes. I'm like, just sit in it, Rachel. Like, this is amazing. This is what you wanted for your life. There's something beautiful.

And I'm so future focused. I have to really work hard to focus on the present and look at the past. I'm just like, well, what's the next thing? And what's the next thing? And so I'm very driven that way. So my wife has to remind me, hey, slow down, pause, enjoy life instead of looking at the next thing ahead of you. I will say, George, and all my spiritual research that I've been doing. She's been on her own journey.

Staying in the present is like a really, it's a big deal. Like, it doesn't, people don't do that. but contemplative thoughtfulness of being in the moment is like a sign of like real deep peace. Like there's something there that we don't. I need to hang out with a monk, I think, to get there. I know, I want to too. Should we go visit a monk?

I do they accept visitors? Is that a thing? I think so. I think you can, yeah. Okay. Or there's priests that like, you know, mystical priests in the church that have, yes, that they like kind of live a certain way.

Again, it's a slower pace of life. Yes. But I think we need more of. I think Americans naturally love just like... I think the West kind of sucks. That's what I'm realizing. You know, there's something in the East that they just, they have a level of calmness to them. But I think over time is good.

And especially like Spain? I mean, they're doing siestas. Like three hour lunch, everything's closed. I know. Leave work. And the walkability in Europe, we need to take that here to the new world. 100%. All right, we can learn some things.

Okay, we should take over the world, George. Maybe that's what we should do. Wow. That's a strong statement. We have all the answers. I'm curious what changed in your 30s. I mean, you guys have had a lot of life change even the last five years. Yeah, we had third kid.

We moved, built her home and moved. Winston quit his job. That was big. Started a complete career shift. He's on his own journey. Yeah. So yeah, we had a big career change in our house. Because up until that point, y'all, Winston and I were doing basically the same stuff.

that we were doing from when we got started our careers, six months into marriage. So it's been a while. So, yeah, there's been some good shifts, but I think my 30s have been my favorite. Is it because of your stage of life with the kids? Right now, yes. I do think, not everyone feels this way, personally,

I think the kids have gotten more fun the older they've been. Like right now in life, this last spring break trip we took, which was about probably two or three months ago from when we're filming this, Wednesday I looked at each other multiple times on the trip and we're like, this is like actually genuinely so enjoyable.

Because for so long, it's like you're not on vacation, you're on a trip if you have the kids with you. And then something just shifts when they can like... What age is it? Like five? I think five is kind of that magical number. I'm looking forward to that. Yes. You got five years.

At least. Until the, yeah. Yeah, unless you'll have another one. Oh, my God. And you're going to start over. And it's beautiful and it's great. It's chaotic. And there's like beauty in every season, you know, all the things.

But there's something about the older kids an older elementary school age. And I think you guys have matured too. I mean, you've done some work. You've been working out physically. Yes. You know, therapy. We've done a lot of therapy.

We've done. Yes, I don't know. It just feels, I feel like we're in a really good season. Just more like settled and less just searching and flipping. Yeah. Winston uses a phrase a lot. It all belongs. So even when there's like chaos and we still have moments of like nuttiness or stuff that's

happening. Is Winston a monk? I think you might. Very monkey. I know. But he's like, listen, this is all part of it. In the moment you try to, like, reject stuff and be like, I got to fix and control. You miss it.

Like, there's a part of, like, I know. What a great reminder. Who knew you were going to get this out of a net worth episode, guys? This is free content. I'm telling you. Put this behind the paywall. This is some serious wisdom, Rachel Spitton. That's how I feel about my 30s.

I can't wait for my 40s. I feel like it's going to get even better. Even better. Right, Kelly? Is the 40s great? I think the 40s are great. I think you become, honestly, the older you get, I do think you just become more and more and more secure and there's something about that

that it's like less performative. Yes. Well, I think you also... And it's really enjoyable. The older you get, the less you care what other people think, which is really the best part of life. It's very freeing.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not... Sipping on a banana old fashion. We're having a good time. This is a great.

This is good. Great episode so far. Any notes from the crew? All right. There's passing notes back there, so I was wondering if they had notes for us. Oh, my gosh. All right.

Let's talk about America. Should we, though? Let's do the breakdown. We were having such a good time. I don't know, were we? Let's talk about the data. Average net worth by age. Again, the data starts with 35 or under.

According to a survey of consumer finances published by the Federal Reserve, as of 2022, the average American has a median net worth of approximately $39,000 at age 35 or under. All right. And in 2019, just three years prior, that number was just at 16. thousand, 230. So it's more than doubled.

There's some good news. Yeah, you're doing great. But do you think about the average net worth of $39,000? That's a little bit frightening to me. At 35. Yeah, 35 or under is a big range. Because you think about a car and some equity in some house should probably be more than 40. Yeah. Right? If you combine all of that. Like, what that tells me is Americans. In retirement, I think about retirement. Yeah, they're not investing. They're probably in some pretty crippling debt. Well, I was going to say, probably debt. because it's taking away from the net worth number. So yeah.

And just a reminder, the way you calculate your net worth is you take everything you own, that's your assets. So cars, the home equity, your savings, your retirement, minus what you owe, liability. So that's any debt you have. And so that total average 39 grand for 35 or under. So let's talk about, you know, the way to increase your net worth is twofold. Number one, putting money away in savings and investing.

And number two is your home equity growing once you are a homeowner. Yeah, and paying off debt. Yes. paying off the debt will also increase it. It's number one. Get rid of the negative side. So get out of the hole, first and foremost, right? And then start saving.

And then, yeah, if you own a home, the equity in it will go up year after a year, which is a beautiful thing. That's a big part of your net worth. So when and how to invest, the simplest answer is, once you're out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. That's the foundation Rachel's talking about of just getting to the black. Yeah, totally. Instead of being on the red. So that's a big part for, that's a big part. a big milestone. That's why we celebrate, you know, the debt-free scream on the Ramsey show.

Yes. Because it's huge. And for a lot of people, once they get out of debt, there's like an automatic increase with their net worth. Like once they say, okay, I don't owe anything, automatically what's been in the 401K that I've been putting away, even if it's a little bit, they've been putting away, even before they started paying off debt, because as you pay off debt, we say to pause retirement investing. But usually most people have some level of investing that they've done. And then, yeah, and then if they own a home. So it really really is a great thing. Yeah. So if this is you, if you're 35 or under, these are your goals, is to get out of all consumer debt, get that emergency fund, and then begin investing 15% into

retirement. If you can do that before you're 35, you're in a great place because you still have 30 years of a working career to build up that nest egg and have compound growth work for you. So that's my advice to those folks. All right. Next step, we have 35 to 44. The average American median net worth is about 135,300. It feels like a lot. That's almost a $100,000 jump from the previous number. That's a decade between almost. So I think that's a good start.

Okay. Wow, George is so not impressed. Well, I'm just, I'm going, time is of the essence here. And at 44, to have 100 grand net worth, it still shows me that you're not investing enough, you're probably still dealing with debt. Now, this is for the average American. I hope people watching this. My guess is anybody that watches this show

is doing far better than the average American. Mm-hmm. So again, this is the suck bar, as we say here at Ramsey. But it's still at least, hey, if you have a six-figure net worth from 35 to 44, we're making progress. It feels like a lot to me. It bodes well that we're at least moving up.

Okay. All right, we got 45 to 54. Average Americans median net worth is about 246,700. $100. Okay. About a quarter million. Yep. How did that hit you? Less impressive. I don't know why. Wow. What does it take to impress Rachel Cruz?

No, the other one was impressive to me. 35 to 44 at $135,000. But like you're headed to retirement at this point. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's what I'm thinking. I mean, you're almost, you're getting there. And this is, again, including your home, equity, and retirement. And at 54, like, you're starting to turn that corner. a lot of these folks was probably, now this is the median, not the average. And so the median is just the number in the middle because the averages can skew it because some people might have

$40 million. Right, right. But I think looking at this median, I just go, they're probably not investing. And if they are investing, they're not investing enough. And they haven't changed their lifestyle for decades now. They're still kind of living above their means. Yeah. Still hanging on to a car payment. Maybe they're still paying off student loans or credit card debt. And so I think what we're seeing is, the sooner you clean this mess up, the higher your net worth will be. That's right. Yep. So good. Well, here's another average American step for you. In 2024, consumers reported losing over $12.5 billion to fraud a 25% increase from

2023. Wow. That means our information on the Internet is accessible and people are taking it, and they are not doing great things with it because we are losing money. That's scary. And that's why Delete Me is so important. get. Yeah, this service will go across the entire internet with a real person behind the scenes and manually remove your data from these data broker sites. So anytime you've Googled yourself

and you're like, how do they know my address, my phone number, and my email, that's scary enough. But the problem is, scammers, spammers, AI impersonator, digital harassers, they can use this information against you to then cause some financial stress in your life. Yeah, and the new thing is fishing. Oh, the fishing attacks. Where they make you believe it's a real company, a real person. It's like the advanced versions of scams, basically. And it gets so real because it's technology and AI and everything. So you really want to protect yourself because honestly your information, your family's information is too important for it to be a billboard across the internet. So again, delete me, goes in and removes that information from these data broker websites.

And this is what really gets me. These data brokers make money off of your information. It's just all gross. And I'm like, you don't get to do that. That's my home address. Don't make money off me. I don't know you. I don't know you.

It's a very dystopian world we live in. And so, Delete Me keeps me safe. Help protect my family, gives me peace of mind. And it's very affordable. I mean, we're talking about $9 bucks a month if you use our code. If you go to join deleteme.com slash smart money, you'll get 20% off their annual plans. We can also put a link in the description below if you want to check it out.

This is worth it. We talk about taking control of your money. Now we've got to take control of your digital privacy along with that. Yes, very, very important. All right, next age group is 55 to 64? Oh, is this leaning into the boom? Boomers? Yes, it is.

This is the boomers. All right. So average Americans' median net worth here, 364,270. So if you've been watching, George, it's been about 100-ish, 110,000 each... Per decade? Per decade. Yes. Does that feel like a right track for you?

It does. It's still very depressing to me, because I mean, think about this, you're in your early 60s, and you don't have much to show for it. You've worked your entire life. 40 years now and you don't even have a few hundred thousand in retirement account. This looks like they probably have some equity in their home. They've been putting a little bit of money away. Okay, so the median house price right now is around $400,000 in America, right? So let's say your house is valued at $400,000 as the median. Okay, so let's say half of your mortgage is paid

at this point. That's 200,000 of it. So that means you have $164,000 in retirement. That's not going to get you very far. That's right. That's what you're saying. Like when you actually break down the numbers, that scares me. And what that also tells me is people have been going backwards for a long period of time now. They've likely taken the helock to do the home renovation. So they've been turning to debt as a shortcut and solution for a long period of time. And the truth is, the older you get, the harder it is to undo a lot of this and to make progress. It's still possible.

We get some inspiring calls of people who are like, hey, I was in my 50s when I heard about you guys. and now I'm 65 and retired and have a great life. But we also get some sad calls on the Ramsey show where they're in their 60s and they're calling us saying, hey, I haven't invested anything. What do I do? I want to retire. And we have to tell them, hey, retirement is not an age.

It's a financial number. And you haven't prepared for this stage of your life. But the truth is we say, like, it's never too late. Right? So there is a hope there, right? You can, it's never too late. But also, time is on your side. And the earlier you start with all of this,

obviously the better off you're going to be. So as you do get older, it's not that you can't, it just gets harder. So I think that's what's difficult. And when you look at the power of compound growth, in your 20s, every dollar you invest turns into like $20 in your nest egg. But when you're in your 50s and 60s, that dollar might turn into two. Right. There's just less time for compound growth to work.

And so that's the hard reality of that. And so the sad joke is your best bet is to build a time machine. Go back in time and invest. George. That's it. That's not helpful. There's hope. Be present, George.

If we can send Katie Perry to space, we can build time machines. I'd love to build a time machine where Katie Perry never went to space. And we didn't have to see her kiss the ground and say she found love. George. I love that reality. Moving on. Oh, man. We're getting old now.

We're getting elderly. Oh, my gosh. 65 to 74. We're going to have some 76-year-olds. They're going to be like, George. I don't know. definition of elderly, but I feel like 74 is up there. Okay, well, I will say 65 to 74. 65 is young and stupid. That's Dave Ramsey's age. My parents are 65.

Sharon lives like a 44-year-old. Yes, she's very active. She's in great shape. She eats very healthy. I'm not going to speak to Dave. You can do that. Yeah, I think Dave is fine. He's doing great. He will barefoot ski still once a year. He walks with Bella. He golfs all the time. And he golfs. Yeah, so there's some activity there. He's always doing something exciting. But once you hit, I mean, the 70s, George, like, yeah, you're getting there. So you do have to genuinely think through you may start slowing down. There may be more sicknesses prone to health stuff, right?

The older you get. So this is a time period to think about. But this is the peak of the data. Are you ready for this? All right. What's the median net worth? $410,000. Oh, boy.

I was really hoping for more. Because what we see there, it didn't go up by that $100,000. That's just not enough for you? I hope your children feel encouraged in life, George. I'm just saying. I was just hoping for more. Is that what you're going to say? When they come in like, Dad, I got a 94 on my math test.

I was hoping for more. That will be me. George. My kids will be acing their tests. No, they won't. I don't care. Tests are stupid. That's my hot take.

That's my hot take. Me too. How's your social skills? That's what's more important in this life. Actually. Not your test taking abilities. There has been studies on this. That in the workplace, you can advance with who you know

and who you're friends with more. I've seen it. Yes. I've been here a long time. The people who win, they're just good with people. And you have to be good at your job. But just because you got an A doesn't mean you're going to be great in the workplace. Yeah, no.

That's my hot take. Yeah, $410,000. Because I think about this, you are like knee deep in retirement at this point. With your entire net worth being $400,000. And what we've seen is in our millionaire study where we surveyed $10,000 of them, the average millionaire hit that at 49 years old. And they're not even halfway there. into their 60s and 70s.

Oh, wait, so say that again. That's good. The average millionaire in our millionaire study hit that net worth milestone at 49 years old. 49 versus 64 to 74. So that's where I'm like, you're not even halfway there. Okay, that's good. And you're 20, you know, that hurts my heart.

And you think about this, that when we say about investing, that you can live off of the returns, right, once you get, you know, you don't have to touch the principal. But again, 410,000. Let's just say 200,000 is in the house. And that's 20,000 a year. year at 10% Not great

I don't know about you but that's poverty line Yeah that's right So not great Does it go now that was the peak So it's got to go down 75 plus It goes down so 75 plus is 334,700 Net Worth That's kind of depressing that it goes down

I guess because you're not putting more in Because of it no income Because you're retired Yeah that's true You're no longer contributing And you're only depleting at this point Yeah I'm glad we have a drink

Because this is a sobering episode Tell you that much. I knew this was not going to be our most fun episode. We decided we're going to make it fun. We're going to try to. But so far, these stats are not great. But I hope at the very least, it gives you sort of a baseline to know that you're doing okay.

Yes. This is what's average. Again, we say average sucks. Don't be average. Don't be normal. Be weird. And I think everyone watching the show, I hope you all retire with at least a million dollar net worth,

not because it's a flex, but because you're going to have a better life. You can retire with Dick. Yeah. You know what creates a better life for me? What's that? Cozy Earth sheets. Oh my goodness. Just placed an order last night. Yes. It was like Christmas morning. I can't wait to get it. Would you buy? I got the clogs that I've mentioned.

Yes, okay. Can't wait to see that. It doesn't even my like my house slippers? Yes. I need an upgrade. I love it. Got some joggers. Yes. A little matching tea. Good. To wear out. Errins on the weekends. Got a set. Yeah. I got a button up shirt. And that stuff is going to be. Is it the soft stuff? It's buttery. Oh my gosh. It's like the brushed bamboo. Yes, it's the bamboo stuff. And that's what's great for summer because this stuff is like breathable. So whether it's the sheets

or that material that you got for your clothes, that bamboo, it's like, it's light, it's easy. I mean, it is so nice. It was buttery. I can't wait to wear it. I'm going to impress you. And I got some no-show socks.

As you know, I'm hanging on to the millennial dream of showing a little skin. I don't know what Gen Z is doing with these knee-high socks with weird shorts and their broccoli haircuts. But I'm not, I'm not falling. for it. I'm personally done with it. Yeah. So, and your socks are going to say

cozy earth. That's true. Cozy Earth products, you guys, it is worth it. And even the summer, they have so many great options. And you actually bought a button up. Yes. You show me that looks nice too. Well, they have the whole, you know, like this beat the heat vibe on cozy earth. And so I went for all the things that are cozy, but also I won't sweat in. I know. Because you know me, if I sweat, I'm going home. You're done. Yeah. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home if I break a sweat. And so. Not living this hard life. A real casual. Casual. But cozy.

It's, it is amazing. And we have an amazing discount for our viewers. Yes, up to 40% off. If you use the code smart money at checkout, you can go to cozyearth.com slash smart money. We'll also drop the link in the description below. Have a cozy summer and beat the heat out there. How about that?

All right, George, let's wrap it up with what are your future goals? Like when you look, we're both in our late 30s. We got our 40s, we got our 50s, we got our 60s. We still got three solid decades. Oh, gosh. Maybe even our 70s. I'm tired thinking about that. I mean, like, that's a, we got a lot.

It's great. What do you, like, what do you want? What are you thinking? At this stage of life, I'm thinking about how to set up my kids for financial success, how to not ruin them with entitlement. Because truthfully, my kids are going to have such a different life than the one I grew up with. I had a great life growing up. Sure, yeah, yeah.

But we've worked so hard to get ourselves to a great place financially that it's like, how much do I give my kids a leg up versus sort of letting them earn it and feel that sense of independence? Yes. So that's kind of the struggle now. And then also fairing out, okay, we're doing some great saving goals. How do we now enjoy some of our money and spend it more? How do we give more to things that we really care about? So those are the good problems to have in your 30s.

And also bumping up, you know, the comfort level in our life. So those are our kind of big goals. How about you guys? Big goals, I would say, yeah, the kids thing is big. I would totally echo everything you just said. and it's a pretty constant conversation in our household of like, okay, how do we do this well?

You know, how do we raise them? How do we manufacture some grit? Yes. Guys, you're going to figure this world out. I would say generosity's been big for me recently because it is weird that, and I feel like, I don't want to feel out of touch by saying this, but it's just where we're at that I'm like,

you can be in a rhythm of giving money because we've been in that rhythm for 15 years of our marriage. It was a habit early on for you guys. Yeah, and it's just a continual thing, and it's beautiful and wonderful. But the commodity that now I hold so precious now has shifted from money to time. And so giving that part is harder for me.

That's more of a sacrifice. And so once I've talked about that, how do we take that part, include the kids with, you know, levels of generosity where we actually physically go and do stuff and we're with people and we serve and we do all of that. So that's something that I've been thinking about. And then travel.

There's something about the exercise. experiences that I love. I just love it. You do love to travel. I will plan a vacation on a vacation. I'm like that kind of person because I'm just like there's something about getting away, seeing other cultures too. Like I want to go big.

So like I have Asia on my bucket list. Oh, that's fun. That would be fun. Anywhere specific, that's a pretty big continent. Thailand would be fun. Yep. I mean, Bora Bora while we're over there. Might as well.

Might as well just stop by. What about an overwater bungalow? Is that in the picture? Yes. It's a bucket list thing for me. You see them everywhere on Instagram. I'm like that would be so fun. Tokyo. I would go like big city.

Like, yeah, all of that. I want to take my kids to Israel. Oh, that's a good one. That's a picketless for me once they like hit middle school, high school. I don't know. There's something about going and traveling that I would put my money there over like upgrading a car or something. Just stuff. Yeah, I think I'm at that point. Yeah. Especially while the kids are young and can enjoy it and you're creating some amazing

memories, building character. Are you ready for this? Winston said this other day. And I was like, oh gosh, he said with Amelia, she turned 10. he said, now I've shifted from counting up to counting down. Like now we only have eight more years with her. Like you kind of shift as a parent where before you're like, I can't wait till they get to this. And you kind of have this like, and then now it's like, oh my gosh, now we're looking at when they're leaving us.

Oh my gosh. We're kind of at that, which is so weird. Yeah, I went to one of these like baby blessing things. They have like the marbles in one jar and then the empty one. What? What's a baby blessing? I don't know what it's called. Is it Orthodox?

No. Oh, man. I forget what it's called. I'm probably just missed. It's not a baptism. Okay. The dedication. Oh, a dedication, sure.

I don't understand why we do that, but it's a beautiful thing. Like in front of the church? Yeah. It's not like a baptism. It was like just close friends and family. It wasn't part of a church service. Oh, okay. I was like, care babies getting dedicated.

So it was a beautiful thing. But they have this thing with the marbles. And they go, okay, every one of these marbles represents a week of your child's life. Okay. And so you see the marbles start to dwindle and start to go, oh, there's less on this side now. Oh, yeah. And so, like, when you think about Amelia, you're like, we have eight summers left with her. Yeah.

And that's if she doesn't go away one summer. to a camp, you know, that's just crazy to think about. Yes, it is weird. It is weird. But right now I'm in the phase of like, oh my gosh, I can't wait until they're older and we can, you know. Yes, that's it. That's the shift.

And I do have another side of me as that where I'm like, because I'll see Instagram videos and they're like, you only have 18 summers with your kids, you know. But then I'm like, my parents are over at our house. Yes. You don't mean like you're still in relationship with your kids. Like, and my parents would say this is the most fun. They like having adult kids and grandkids so they can send back with us.

Like, so I do think. there's a life after them, obviously turning 18 for sure. I recognize that. But I do think their ability to be with you in those times is way less than when they're under your roof. So there's something about them being captive under our roof where I'm like, what can we do with you while you're here? And you don't have any other options. Yeah, you're stuck with us. You're stuck with us. You're going to Thailand. You're going to Thailand. You're going to Thailand. You're going to Thailand. So yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. Well, I think it ties back into this net worth conversation because we talk about how parents need to put their own mask on first.

They need to be investing in retirement before they try to help their kids and invest in college. Make sure that you're prepared for retirement so that your kids don't have to take on the burden of covering your lack of retirement planning. That's right. That's right. Those are some heartbreaking calls

in the Ramsey show of, hey, my mom's 78, she has nothing invested. We get that a lot. And we have to take care of them calling us about their parents not being able to do stuff. We get that a lot. It's the sandwich generation. They're stuck between trying to take care

of their kids financially and take care of their parents financially. And so my goal is to never be a burden to my kids. I love that. Financially. I will bother them. I will annoy them to no end for the rest of their life. But I don't want to be a financial burden.

Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. And if you guys need of starting place, maybe you are kind of newer to all of this. FPU is a great place to go. It is our nine lesson course that basically gives you the rundown of all of this to set you up well so that, yeah.

So as you get older, you can have dignity in yourself with your finances. You're not having to depend on other people and there's something beautiful about that. Absolutely. I talk about this concept in my book, Rachel, I want to talk about money so that we can stop talking about money.

As nerdy as I am and I love talking about it, I think it's wise to talk about it, to get our money right, so that we can focus on other things that actually matter in our life. Because we talk about how money is a tool, it's not the end goal. And the same applies to your net worth.

What are you doing with that net worth? Well, wealth is a tool to bless others, to impact your family, to be generous, to live your best life. That's right. And when you don't have it, it's just harder to do that. That's right. And so that's why it's a decent measuring stick, but it's not the end-all-be-all.

Well, it's weird on both sides of the spectrum. It's an idol. So it's an idol if you are spending it out of control, trying to be something and live this life. That's above your means. But yet you're like coveting it and you're like, this is all I want. But then it can be an idol if you hold it so closely and so tight. Or maybe you're obsessed because you don't have it and it's stressing you out. And it's all you think about, right?

So like, we don't want to. money to be the center part of your life. So how do you create a sense where you have it under control and then it is a tool? It is the thing that helps you live your life. It's not your life. And we've said that money just makes you more of who you are. Yeah. And so it's not like your life's going to be so much better because you have a $5 million net worth worth worth. You go with you. Yes. And so if you haven't had a purpose behind all of that, you're just going to go, well, I guess the goalpost needs to move now to $10 million. You're just going to keep chasing the next net worth goal with no real purpose. And so I think it's wise to realize you should, you should

be chasing status at the expense of enjoying your life, but also don't procrastinate future wealth building at the expense of present-day comfort. So it's all about balance. I love it. I think it's true. It's so true. Beautifully said. So good, George. I really enjoyed this episode. Man, are we monks? We might be monks. I don't know. I don't know if they'd let me. I'd never met a monk with glasses. I just, it's anecdotal. I'm sure they're out there. But I think they have prescriptions. But then do I need to shave my head? Prescription lenses. Can I have, like, can they, like, can they use hair product? Do they own blow dryers? I have a lot of questions. That's a good boy. You know, I feel a little ignorant now. I open up this door and I can't walk

fully through it with complete confidence. So I can't give any more information. Can I tell you one reason Rachel can't be a monk? She likes to talk. It's like the whole point of monkdom is to just shut it. Oh, we found a monk with glasses. Is that what you're showing us? We're good. What about with hair? Hey, all right. Okay. Good luck. We got that. What's that? What's Are there female monks? Are they called funks? More questions have arisen. We have a lot of studying to do.

Is it like a pope where they have to be male? I don't, I mean, honestly, I'm not sure. No monks are called nuns. Nuns. Oh, wow. That's on the Catholic side, though, right? Yeah, because there's Buddhist monks. Yeah, like a Buddhist monk.

In Buddhism, female monks are called nuns. Oh, still. Oh, right. We're still to say more. I just learned today that nuns are not relegated to Catholicism. Me too? No, there's Anglican nuns. Egg on my face.

Y'all, this is it. This is why we need to go to Thailand. We need to learn more. Can I be honest, most of my knowledge of this world comes from Nacho Libre, which I can't imagine is accurate, but it is entertaining. Probably not, man. There we go. I'm glad we ended on a high note of me being an idiot.

I think it's a big world out there, George. We've got to go explore it. And that's why you need money to go and... and travel and explore this world. Way to put a bow on it, Rachel. Oh my gosh. All right. Before we spill the tea

on our guilty is charge segment, uh, Sherwood was in the drink, George. This is the banana old-fashioned. This cost $2.69 cents per drink. The ingredients are simple. Bourbon, banana syrup and black walnut bitters. And mixologist Michael told us he made the banana syrup from scratch.

Instead of using like a banana liqueur, which could be used to sweeten it. Yeah. He decided to go the extra mile. And he said it's a little, It's lighter because of that. The banana flavor is not as forward, but I enjoy that because, again, I don't love banana. I think it's too strong of a flavor.

Yes. If it's in a smoothie, you're just drinking a banana smoothie with a hint of strawberry. Okay. You know what I mean? It's like mustard. It's just going to punch through. It's just going to happen. And be the star, the lead, the main character.

Yeah, dang you, banana. Just be a little more humble. But goodness gracious, this is good. What's your rating on it? I mean, y'all, I make a 10 out of 10. I like an old fashion. and this has an interest to it. This would be a fun drink

that if you knew a bartender could make it really well somewhere for a group of friends, like, guys, I have had a banana old-fashioned. You all are going to love it. Let's all order. Like, it would be a fun, like, party trick kind of drink. You know what I mean? I love that.

I think it would be more of a social trick for me, like a social drink than, like, if I was out on a date night. Like, if I was just with Winston, I'm probably going, like, my dirty martini. But this would be like a peak of interest of like, guys, have you heard? Oh, so Rachel, do it to impress her friends but not Winston.

Yeah, that's it. I think that's this drink for me. It's not as exciting to do this with Winston. He's like, uh, Rachel is just a banana. Yeah, it's a party trick. Drink to me. I'm going to go 10 out of 10. Yeah, but it's delicious. And coming from a guy who hates banana. So I say that to say, you should go make this.

Recipe is in the show notes. Prove us wrong. All right, George, now it's time for Guilty as charged. And this is where we ask each other a new guilty charge question every week and if we're guilty we take a sip all right george you ready hit me have you ever been underwhelmed or unfulfilled after achieving a financial milestone oh it's a pretty deep cut i know i'll say for the camels i think paying off the house while a really fun milestone it was a little bit underwhelming was it okay from the experience at the bank

which was lackluster to say the least. You know, I expected like a confetti, a balloon, some music. It was just like 10 minutes of a lady typing trying to like do a wire transfer to the mortgage company. Totally, yeah. And then she's just like, all right,

it will be complete in 24 to 48 hours. Like it didn't even just happen after then still wait for a wiretrain. And it's not like they notify you. Yes. And so the most exciting part is like two weeks later you get a thing in the mail that's like mortgage payoff paper

congratulations you're done with us so that was a little bit underwhelming the experience and then to the other side you're like well there's still more expenses you still got to cover your property taxes your insurance right every other bill you had in your life so it was a really fun milestone and did free it up a lot of margin that we could now use to give save and spend and more important things yeah it was just one of those like I thought there was going to be a little more fanfare where's my party yeah yeah that's fair how about you guys um Winston and I we're probably gosh maybe three or four years into marriage,

and I think it was his idea. He was like, hey, let's have this money goal to get to X amount in our savings. Like in our money market account. So we kind of like, yeah, because having a goal is good. So we're like, yeah, let's like, you know, not just spend everything, but we'll figure out.

And then where we hit the goal, and it was kind of like, okay, so we're going to do with that. Like, you know, it's beyond our... The money didn't have a goal. The goal was just, like, build this exact stack of money. Yeah, it was like a number goal. And to me...

Do you think that's why? I think because I was like, okay. There was no real why behind it. It wasn't an emergency fund of like, oh gosh, I need some cash in the bank just in case something happens. And it feels good. Like, it was just a number. And so that's why, I think since that experience, I just don't, I'm not a big fan of like a goal as a number. Like, I want to have a million dollars by the time I'm 50 or whatever.

Like, again. Milestone for the sake of milestones. Yes, because I'm like, okay, well, you get that. But like, what are you doing to do with that? Like, what do you? Like, I would rather have a goal. where there's an experience or a purchase attached to it. Like your pool.

That was more fun for you because, like, well, at the end, there's a pool instead of a number and an account. Like, we've used it. I mean, it has been like an element of our family that has been so fun. And it's only been like three months. And you haven't even invited me over yet. So just wait until that.

Then it's going to really feel fulfilling. To have the camels over. He made it. He made it. I'm excited for the kids to teach me how to swim, too. You have floaties in my size? George. You can swim.

Sure. Okay, do you do this as swimming? I'm not going to drown. You're just going to go, you call that swimming? It's more of that, you know what I mean? I'm not feeling, yeah, okay. I hang in the shallow end with Charles. Oh my gosh, George.

We'll be browing down with our mock tails. That's fun. That's a fun one. But that's a good reminder to everyone that money is not going to make or break you and hitting a certain goal is not going to make, like, yes, I'm fulfilled now. That's right. Continue your joke. I know you're laughing at my expense.

No, they keep laughing at me and I did this. Is that a heart? I couldn't see from my angle. Yeah, I said, love you, George. See, I feel like it's condescending and sarcastic when you do the motion with it. No, it's just a Taylor Swift thing. Oh, is it? Yeah.

I didn't know that. All right. Tell people to DM us. DM us, your guilty is charged questions. I've been getting a bunch lately, and we love them. I send them to the producers, and then we use them in future episodes. So Instagram at Rachel Cruz or at George Camel with a K, and we will use them in a future episode if they're good.

and we haven't used them before. That's right. There you go. Love it, George. Thanks so much. And listen, it's one thing to be at peace when we compare ourselves to other people, but have you ever felt like our parents

had it way easier than we did when it comes to wealth building? Well, make sure to check out our episode. Do we have it harder financially than our parents? So click there, or if you're listening on podcasts, we'll leave a link below. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an all-new episode of. Smart Money Happy Hour.