Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - Is Chasing “Financial Freedom” Really Worth It?

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

💵 Start your free budget today. Download the EveryDollar app! It's Independence Day and Rachel and George are celebrating in true Smart Money Happy Hour style—with patriotic cocktails and a little chat about financial independence. Is it a realistic goal, or should you aim for financial peace instead? They'll answer these questions on financial dependencies and more. Next Steps 📱Submit a Guilty as Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. 🎥 Go check out our video on navigating awkward money conversations. Offers From Today's Sponsors This episode is sponsored by DeleteMe. 🔒 Remove your personal information from the web and get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to joindeleteme.com/smartmoney.  Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🇺🇸 American Collins Recipe: The Spruce Eats 1 1/2 ounces of gin 3/4 ounce of simple syrup 3–4 ounces of club soda 1/2 ounce of lemon juice 8 blueberries 4 cherries Instructions: In a collins glass, muddle blueberries, cherries, simple syrup and lemon juice. Then, add the gin and fill the glass with ice. Stir briefly and top with club soda. Garnish with a cherry and a lemon wheel and enjoy!   Listen to More From Ramsey Network 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Oh, do that again. There we go. There we go. Wow. You're with the topper.

Can I just set it on the table? Is that just bad out of it? That's fine. Hold on, hold on. Let's see. Let's see. Oh, I like it. No one's listening anymore.

They've all dropped off. All right. This is the show or two friends who have new money experts. Talk about what you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events and money. In today's episode, Rachel, we're celebrating the fourth. of July. We are. In a big way, we're talking about financial independence. That is what we declare today for all of you watching and listening. So stay tuned for talk of Hamilton, Martina McBride,

and whether or not financial freedom is something you should actually be working toward hot takes there. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Well, while we chat about all that, what are we sipping on, George? We're sipping on an American Collins, a patriotic drink with some red and blue in there, some cherries, some blueberries. It's beautiful. Very color coordinated. We tried really hard with our blue and red drink here today. So stick around until the end. We're going to give you the cost per glass, reveal our rating,

and recipe will be in the show notes. So great. So let me be the first to say a triumphant and hearty Merca. Merca. Merca. Merca.

Smells like bald eagles and freedom in here, Rachel, don't it? Yeah, it does. Martina McBride. You're going to sing it? It's independent. No, I wish I could. Can I give you a taste?

Let freedom raise. Man, it's just like it hits the soul. Does it? Fourth of July is a great holiday. Can I be honest? Just listen to that song today for the first time. No. I don't know if that's un-American.

George. But I'll be honest, was not impressed until the chorus hit at a minute and 20 seconds. Took her forever. Rieba would not have done that. She would have got to that chorus within 40 seconds. Give the people what they want. I don't know if you can hate it more, Tina. Name three Martina McBride songs.

This one's for the girls. Independence Day. And we got a... Just saying. I'm just saying. Gotcha. Well, it's a great song. Either way, let me just tell you,

I love this great country of ours. It's, you know, it's flawed. It's got its problems. Yeah. But it's the greatest one out there. It's wonderful. We love it. And we're here to celebrate it.

And we're here to celebrate not just the freedom in America, but about how to be financially free. Because, again, financially free, independence, financial peace. These are things we're going for when it comes to our money. And there's some caveats with financially free, financial independence, financial peace.

What's the difference? Which one should you go after? And a lot of people have thrown out this phrase, financial independence. We've heard of the fire movement, right? Financial independence retire early. Yes. So this has been circulating around the internet and we're going to give you our takes today. And sometimes to know where you're going to go, you've got to know where you're not going.

That's a part of this. That is. Yeah. And I just feel like where we've come from, George, from the history of this great holiday that we're still. It actually kind of started in your neck of the woods, old Boston. Thank you. Yeah. So what does financial codependence look like?

The opposite of independence, yeah. And are you unfairly answering to a financial bully? Who is your Great Britain in your life, if you will? So let's go back, George. Let's go back. Let's go back to 1776, shall we? Simpler times, and yet so much more complicators. There's a lot there.

A lot. The American Revolution. Do you remember anything like history class? Let's go back. We did it. Don't you. I know that. It happens.

But no, I don't, I truly don't remember much because my, all of my knowledge comes from the Patriot with Mel Gibson, which I know is not totally accurate, but that's where all of my historical American knowledge come from. Just like Space Jam is where all of my sports knowledge comes from. That's not, I'm not bragging. It's just where we're at. That's what's happening. That's what's happening.

Well, there's a great statement, if you will. You're ready for this? Yep. No taxation without representation. That's right. Again, according to TikTok standards, it's a pretty great catchphrase. I think for back then, that was hip. No textation without representation.

Real sticky. And we love a catchphrase around here at Ramsey. We have Dead as Dumb Cash as King. Yeah, we have Live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. It's great. I think you need memorable things like that. For sure, yep.

And there are ways that I think, you know, we can rebel and revolt against the system, you know? Like guilt tipping? Is this what we're revolting against? That's a good one. Hey, I saw a video and this is the guy's rule. I thought, brilliant. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Go.

Do you? Okay. Tell me. He said, if you're standing up, you don't tip. So if you're like standing to order, I'm not tipping. I feel like if we go back in the Rolex, the Rolodex of our Smart Money Happy Hours, I probably mention that. So I'm going to take credit for it. Oh, my God.

We were hot on the cusp of this. We were. We talked a lot about it. And I said, why would I tip when I'm standing? Oh, you did? Yeah. Sure. remembers that, took the guy making a viral reel on Instagram.

I know for me to see it. But that's good. Yeah. That's how we revolt. I think that's good. Yeah. Okay, so here's the timeline of how the American Revolution went down financially speaking. We're focusing on the money here.

You ready? Okay. February 1763. So this is before 1776. Good math. Yeah, there you go. Just to make sure everyone is on the same page. France hands over all of its North American possessions east of the Mississippi to

Great Britain after the French and Indian War. So this means it's a big financial win for Britain. But the costs of the war and maintaining an army still forces the British to enact a new tax on the colonists. Got to pay for that army somehow. But a big mistake, George. Big. Big.

Because just two years later, March of 1765, Britain passes the Stamp Act, which now taxes legal documents, newspapers, and even playing cards. What? So extra. Man, why? So Americans, not happy with this. They campaigned to have this act repealed, and it actually worked. Healthy conflict.

Look at that. People standing up for what they want. Well done, people. And this gives them hope that they can avoid future taxes as well. Spoiler alert. Not necessarily. Not so fast, new Americans. New Americans, I like that.

So in October 1768, British troops arrive in Boston. What accent? Boston. I don't know. How do you do a Boston accent? I want you to keep going until you get there. Triths, I'm really enjoying this. I'm the car, Boston. Boston? Sure. British troops arrive in Boston, George.

Love Boston to enforce the townshend duties, which is more taxes. I know what duties are because of the duty-free airport store. That is true. Which are a rip-off, by the way. Wow. Don't buy stuff from there. It's a total rip-off. Really? It's tax-free, but they, the duty-free.

The prices are insane. Oh, yeah, they up the prices to do it. And it's usually alcohol. It happens, so be aware. Fast forward two more years. It's March of 1770 now. The British soldiers and an angry mob of colonists, there is a street fight. Five people die.

Americans call it the Boston Massacre. The best part, the British called it the incident on King Street, which just proves that bias news has existed forever. There it is. Way to change the narrative. Five people dying, is that a massacre or an incident? Oh. Pick your point.

I don't know. We'll go. Every life is valuable. That's right. So now April of 1775, there's been five more years of intimidation tactics and economic oppression pushed upon Americans. And they rebelled. And that's when the first shots of the American Revolution were fired at Lexington and Concord. April of 1775, George. I think I remember that part of Hamilton. That's where it got real good. You know, I never seen Hamilton.

It's time. It's on Disney Plus. It's not that hard. I know. Everyone says how great it is. I don't know. I think that happened in Hamilton. Okay, but I didn't know. I feel like there was a shot or two. And then the next date is October 1781. I don't realize, I'll be honest.

I don't think I realized that the war was five years long. That's a long time. Yeah. Almost six. Yeah. The Revolutionary War in 1781 of October ended at Yorktown. And this is, it's part of the list of the Hamilton soundtrack, Rachel. This is where I get my historical knowledge now.

But get this. New York City and Charleston, South Carolina remained under British rule for another two years until a peace treaty was signed. Man. How is this possible? So what's crazy is even after America drew and upheld their financial boundaries, there was still some codependency that took some time to fully break. Wow.

So deconstructing and rebuilding an entire economic system, it takes time. And it's impossible to get every citizen and stayed on the same page about national identity and economic affairs, which brings us to today's conversation. This is what you came here for. It's what you paid zero dollars to hear. But you're welcome for the history lesson. everyone. That was actually very hopeful.

It does make me go, like, I'd watch a documentary now to just catch up. You know, I'm a World War II. I'm good at the World War II time frame. But previous to that, this is a little too old. The American Revolution, not so sharp. Yeah. Yeah. I would say anything in the last hundred years feels a little more relevant.

You know? That would be true. 1770s, I'm like, ah, it's a little, that's too far back from my brain. It's a little, you know, wigs and men and, you know what they say. Long-tailed coats. If you don't know history, it's bound to be repeated or something like that. like, there's a quote. I think Churchill or...

We should... It's actually probably very important that we go back and revisit history. So today's conversation, financial independence versus financial codependence. Yep. So we talked about these terms, financial freedom, financial independence,

financial peace, whatever you want to call it, the sentiment here is that people like to have ownership and full control of their finances. It's empowering. Yeah, and I think too, you know, even if you can be free of your finances, meaning, like you have a plan, all of this, you still have to be like, okay, I have to handle money, right?

Regardless of where you are, like you have to handle money in today's world. And so understanding, yes, the freedom of that is really important, but also other implications of handling money in today's world. That's right. And we can never be fully independent because of the world we live in. There's pieces, there's strings attached, if you will. It is the sad thing, you know, you pay off your house. You still got property taxes.

You still got to pay taxes. And if you don't pay taxes, they'll put a lien on the house. and you don't have that. I mean, like, it's kind of crazy how they kind of still have their strings attached to us, George. Well, then it's like, do I do that or I live off the grid in the woods? Like, is that a life?

I don't know. They may be happier. Well, let's talk about the positives of taxes. There's a few. You know, those things we appreciate. Thank you. That's a good one. So, yeah, here's some healthy financial codependence

that we have with the government, public education, like you mentioned. Paved roads, appreciate that. We do, thank you. Gravel, not the best. Paved roads? Pot holes, not a fan? Yeah, Tennessee.

healthcare, that can go either way, you know. Yeah. But that's a thing. Parks, public parks, recreation. Sure. Appreciate that. Libraries. Yes.

They still exist and they're wonderful. Yep. Story times. It's great. Public transportation. Yes. Like we have in Boston. That's wonderful.

Police and fire services. And military protection. Yeah. So there's some. Which shout out to all the service members out there. Yes. Thank you for your service and sacrifice. For sure.

That's the stuff I'm like, okay, I'm happy to pay for those things. But financial codependence can turn toxic real fast when its government gets involved in our own personal finances, George. There's some overstepping here. This is what happens. That's what's hard. I'm like, yes, there are things that we have to pay for, regardless of who you are. And we will do that, right? Or we go to jail, so we will do that.

But then people start. We can admit those things the government's not good at. Yeah, and then you start to kind of lean on the government more and more. And I do think that's where it starts to strip away a little bit of this like independence, right? Like depending on the government, you know, that whole student loan debacle that we all walk to. through. But this like real false hope, it was really sad. Well, they are won't they? Forgive our student loans. I know. We played that game for far too long. And people still have hope. Even after

everything came down, like, yep, not going to happen. Supreme Court said, nope, not on my watch. And people are still out there not paying their student loans because they're hoping one person or politician will fix it all. Right. That's right. And another one is social security. People are relying on the government's version of a retirement plan. And we're seeing the numbers. It may not even be around. Have you seen this by the time? I think it's not necessarily us. It'll be at like 80% in 2034. It's not looking good.

And that kind of sucks. It's taken out of our paycheck. I wish I could just keep it. Yeah, you're forced to pay forever. And choose to like, yeah. And they don't do a great job investing it, clearly. And the average payout is about $1,700 last year a month. Oh, wow.

Which has got a lot to live off of. And some people get less than that, like $900 a month. Mm-hmm. And so it's not a whole lot to live off of, especially with how expensive life is these days. And people go, well, Social Security will be there for me. So why? invest for retirement, you have to be in control. That's good.

Yeah, but at the end of the day, financial codependence in our personal lives may be the type of codependence that affects us most often. So when you think about comparison culture, for instance, and how that can dictate our financial decisions. That's a version of codependence. So like buying a house because all your friends are buying houses. Depending on what everyone is doing, the thing that's going on, what people, yeah, it's like you kind of get into this trend, right, or this life stage and you start to kind of forfeit a little

bit of your decision-making, sometimes subconsciously, just because it's kind of the norm. It's what everyone's doing. So you kind of just fall into that bucket. Going into a debt for a flashy car to impress your friends, wasting your money on a designer bag just for the status.

No, you've never done that, Rachel. Never. But it's a thing people do. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that, yeah, you have to watch your purchases and ask yourself, yeah, how much of this is just for me to enjoy and that I like. And if this thing is taken away from me,

I am still me. I'm good. Like my identity, who I'm not. I am, my contentment is not so tightly wound into this lifestyle, right? I mean, I think it's an important conversation. And even outside of comparisons, another one, another area here, relying on your parents' income too far into adulthood. Yes, I know.

This is a tough one. I know. I don't want to, like, hate on the people who live at home because everyone has their reasons and situations. But there's a level where it's like you got to just fly the coop. You got to go be an independent adult and get some mojo and independence in your life. Yeah, and I do know, I mean, right or wrong, but for sure people, parents, that, you know, kids are like in private school

and they pay for that tuition for the family, the grandparents, or the parents help pay for X, Y, and Z. I mean, you don't know what I mean? There's a lot of parents that I think do reach down and kind of support and help. But at what point is that coddling or enabling? Yeah, exactly. Do you have an age for your kids where you're like, hey, Amelia, Charles, if you're still in the house by this age, like, you're out? In the house or like, or like, lifestyle-wise stuff. But like financial support, you know, like let's say they've graduated college, what then? Yeah, I mean, I would say, I'd say there's a season after college, six months a year,

where they're kind of figuring out where do I want to go, right? I feel like that's a fair, a fair assumption. But I think what's hard, too, is the world today, I'm just thinking of one person in my head. And they work really hard. So the idea that the parents do help out in the kids' situation, like they do kind of, they do help. And the kid though, the child, I say kid, adult child, is a hard worker. There's not like a, like, oh my gosh, it's just a, you know, they pick, they had a certain career that they have and it doesn't produce a ton. It's not enough to sustain a independent lifestyle.

Yeah, it's enough to sustain it, I would say. But then there's like these things, like whether it's private school for their kids that they really value or whatever. I don't know, certain things that a grandparent who has done well, reaches down, it's like, yeah, we'll help take care of that, that, and that. Would that be considered coddling to you? No, I think it depends on the person and their own sense of entitlement and drive. Yes, that's my thing. It's more of an attitude thing for me, this whole

conversation. Do you know what I'm saying? I don't know. I think it's an interesting one. But I think you do find a sense of dignity when you are more financially independent, right? And it's not up to your parents to still support you. I think that's true. I grew up fast. When I moved out of the house at 20 and I moved across the country, I feel like I matured. I matured in a way that I could not have if I stayed at home. Yeah. I think that's fair.

That's all. Yeah, I think that's fair. Here's the other side of this, Rachel, another side of codependence. Parents relying on their children to pay for their medical care, nursing home costs, or we didn't prepare for retirement. And kids, you got to take care of us forever now. Okay, so you know what's so hard. I know we're talking about America here.

But it is a very cultural thing. Like you go to other countries. America's very independent. It's a very independent mindset. You go to other countries or cultures. and it's expected then as the adult child, then you do take in the parents and you do help, right, the multi-generational.

I mean, so I don't know what's right or wrong, and it's probably more about the person than the system or the set of traditions or expectations, but that's real. Yeah, we get those calls on the Ramsey show. You know, maybe they're from, you know, Asia or India or South America, and it's just sort of this very familial,

like we all live together and the parents move in with us and we help take care of them. And there's a beauty in that, too. So it's not there's a right or wrong, but if there's an expectation that, hey, I'm not going to prepare it all financially and it's going to be on you guys to pause your financial life to take care of us, there's a toxicity there that I think needs to be addressed. And what's hard is a lot of adult children now, they don't even have their finances together. Like, they're barely getting by their living paycheck to paycheck. So then to expect to be able to take care of two other adults, it starts to crumble.

When they call this the sandwich generation, because you're trying to take care of your kids, but you're also trying to take care of. care of your elderly parents, and so now you're stuck financially going, I'm, you're bleeding out all the ways. That's a tough place to be. This 4th of July episode went real bummer. Real sad fast. Well, let's, you know, here's some. Should we just give out money and everyone be okay?

I'm okay with that if you're willing to donate. I'm just kidding. Here's another one. We're still on the co-dependent side. We'll get to the good stuff. Don't worry, but here's the other one. One spouse holds all the financial power. The other gets an allowance.

Oh, boo. Boo. She says boo. Stop that, if that is you, y'all stop that. No. I confronted someone about this on my YouTube channel. Good. Won't name names, but it was dark.

Because I said, it was about separate bank accounts. And I said, what happens when, like, let's say she stays home one day and you guys have kids? And she decides, and I said, well, you know, I'll give her an allowance. Because I'm the bread. And I was like, I don't know that Whitney would let me live. If I told her, hey, babe, here's your allowance for the month. as if she's not putting in as much or more work.

And what's so interesting is that it goes both ways. It's like the man has that to the wife. But then also we'll talk to women that are like, yeah, well, I just tell him what he can, you know. And then it becomes his motherling. Yeah. And then it becomes this mothering feeling. I don't know. It's just no.

No, no, no. Equal people. You all have equal say. Isn't America all about equal? Sure. Equal opportunity? Yes. Yes.

And same in a marriage. Come on. Let's don't do that. I like that. I love the it's the unity. You want a codependence that actually involves the word co. Yeah. A relative asks you or a friend ask you to co-sign a hefty loan

because their credit isn't where it should be. Yeah, that's a fun fact. If you need a co-signer, it's because if you need a co-signer, it's because the person trying to buy the thing is not good with money. It's basically sees that and it's like, oh, we don't trust that person. So we need to go find someone trustworthy.

So then it's you. and then the untrustworthy person ends up missing payments or whatever, and then you're on the hook for it. And we hear those stories? Almost every time on the Ramsey show someone calls in and says, I co-signed, they're calling in because the person stopped paying. And now they're on the hook and they're wondering what to do. And sometimes the person that stops paying, they're a good person.

It's not like they're evil and trying to scurry out, even though we've heard those stories. But it's like, oh my gosh, they lost their job. Like stuff happens in life and they're not prepared, so then it ends up being on you. So don't co-sign. Just say no. Just say no. Put that boundary up and say, and say love you, bro.

Just say no. Was that from Dair back in school? Yeah. Say no to drugs and co-signing. Yes. I don't know that's going to... It's not a great tagline. They'll need to workshop that.

I think it feels great. All right. This one falls into a similar category of unreliable people. A moocher who never pays you back. That's unfortunate. That's some codependence right there. If you're constantly covering the cost for a friend and they're like, bro, I'll get you. They're not going to Venmo you.

I'm sorry. It's not going to happen. And so I don't think friendships. should run off of passive-aggressive-venmo requests. That's no way to live. Yeah. So I either gift it if I'm cool. You know, if it's just like, hey, man, don't worry about it.

Yeah. Then it's not living in your head rent-free. There's no resentment building because you're like, that guy owes me money. And it ends up hurting a relationship. I've never seen it where it does not hurt the relationship. It's not great. Oh, man. All right, let's go to the ultimate.

Codependence. Debt. Ooh, she said it. She said what she said. Period. You are dependent upon now a system. with your income, with your lifestyle, with all of it. And it is, it's detrimental, George, it is.

It does feel, it's so weird because America is number one in debt, and yet we're all about freedom, and debt is the opposite of freedom. Yeah. So we've talked about financial freedom, and we also said that you can't really be free totally, because you still have to pay your taxes, there's still things to be paid, but I like the term financial peace better than freedom, and even financial independence, where you're in control.

And I think that's what we need to focus on. I love that. that. Well, speaking of financial independence, George, let's see what that looks like. Let's talk shop. So this is things like living without debt, living without credit cards, having money saved in the bank that you can get to. Having an emergency fund. That's right. That's some freedom. Three to six months of expenses. Something happens. You have cash there that you can go to. You're not having to depend on the credit card for your emergency fund. You're saving up for retirement, like we talked about earlier, 15% of your income. And it's just fantastic. I mean,

there's a level of that financial independence. Oh, yeah. That you are selling. self-sustained, and then it does allow you to make choices in your life and different decisions because money's not the obstacle. You have the margin and the cushion to make some decisions that may be big life decisions, changing a job or moving, but you're good because you got money saved and no payments. And the ultimate version of this is at the end of the Ramsey Baby Steps that we talk about is paying off your home early, getting you to the pinnacle there. And so owning your house free and clear, that's about the most American thing I can think of. And what I love is there's actually a symbol that people get to put over their door and it's an eagle.

Really? And it represents that you've paid off your home. Have you heard that? Have you heard this? Yes. I've seen it a few times. But if you have an eagle over the door, it generally symbolizes that that house is owned free and clear by that person. There's no mortgage on the property. That's amazing. And so I think that's a beautiful representation. Okay, Rachel. Come on. Can you just be positive for once? Just speaking the truth, George. Well, I think I'm going to get you. It really hit me the other day, y'all. Really hit me. That you'll never own anything. And cars, you've got to

to pay the tags, get the tags renewed. Sure. But there's a level they... But that's a part of living in society, but you don't owe anyone money. It's not debt. It's an expense. You don't have tax debt if you didn't pay it.

What I'm just saying? You pay your electric bill. Is that a debt? You got to pay electric bill to live. No, because I used electricity from a service that I don't own. Did you not use the roads that you drove your vehicle on?

I did. There you go. But that's, is that property tax? I was talking about your car tags in that. instance. Oh, okay. But property taxes go to fund all the things in your community. Nah, does it? Do we know of taxes that will anyone? Yes. Like what we talked about in your community, you pay taxes to the county. The county uses that money, hopefully, partially, to fund the public education

and the fire rent and the police. That is true. I do know, yeah. Property taxes are up. It's part of that is for schools. That is true. So change your two. Why am I the positive one for once? Wow. What has happened? Do it feels funding? I'm mad all the time. Is this how you feel? Yes. Now you know. It's very energizing. It's so critical. Well, I love it. It's all about living the life you want to enjoy.

That's right. And if you can't do the things you want to do, because of debt, because of codependency, you're doing it wrong. Mm-hmm. Okay, so if financial peace is the goal, realistically, how do we get there? So let's start with number one. I would say start with a united front. If you are married, work together, actually be on a team, sit down, do your budget together, have a plan of goal. of goals like getting out of debt or an emergency fund,

start working together. I'd also say, ditch the old system and start a new one, you know? Oh. If you are not happy with where you are financially, do something different and just say, hey, let's start a new system, right? So maybe you take Financial Peace University. That's what it did for me. Yeah, maybe you read some books,

maybe you listen to some podcasts, put new information in your head and in your brain, and do something differently. And then also live today with the future in mind. I think that long-term thinking is really, important when it comes to money and being wise. We're very short-sighted in today's world. It's just ADD brain. We're thinking about this weekend.

You've got to think about what happens five, ten years from now. Who do I want to be? What kind of life do I want to live? That's right. And can I say this United Front reminds, it feels like civil war sometimes in people's lives. Why are you against your spouse? You're on the same team, act like it. Yeah.

You're not a Great Britain in America. Yeah. You jumped wars on me. Can we stay American Revolution in Boston? Well, I was just thinking about the United Front and how important that is to have a united front. Otherwise, it turns into a civil war. We don't want that. No, we do not.

All right, that's good stuff. All right, George. I think it's had to have a little fun, you know. Yeah, you're right. This has been a real drab episode, thanks to you. Let freedom ring. Let freedom ring. Martina, call me.

Is she still alive? I just didn't want to get dragged in the comments. Okay, so let's have our producer, Skyler. She's going to read. financially codependent scenario to us, and then we have to have a declaration of financial independence. That's clever. So it's kind of like a president who's giving a declaration, right? I've never done that, but I'll try my best. We will try. Okay. All right, Scholar. Scenario 1. Your group of friends who all rely heavily on Southwest credit card points want to go to a luxurious

trip to Cancun in two months. You're trying to pay off debt, and you could put that I'm paused to join the fun. But you don't want to derail your progress. Ooh. So I'm in debt. My friends are all taking this fun trip. Don't want to derail progress. What is my declaration?

My declaration. How do you, like, I do declare. Like, how does that start? I don't know how to make a declaration. I know. I think you say, I declare boundaries. Shoot.

I want to go so bad, but I can't. That would be mine. That's it? That's your big declaration? Like the troops are there watching. They're waiting for you to rally them. Oh, we're supposed to, like, give a big speech? I thought it was a big speech.

If Mel Gibson did that in the Patriot, they would all just be like, it all just walk away and look, we're going home, man. I'd say, oh, dadgummit. That sounds. I would say, I do declare, I'm broke. I would say, listen, guys, thanks for the invite. You got to have fun.

I'm working on paying off my debt. I'll be there next year. Okay, there you go. Great. Put the boundaries up. Get the war started. If they're real friends, they're going to go, oh, cool, man, no worries.

Yeah, they should already know you're doing it. If they're not cool with that, find better friends. All right, next conundrum. Your sister's pregnant with her first child and she wants you to throw the baby shower of her dreams. You're excited to celebrate her, but her Pinterest inspo board doesn't align with your realistic budget. Oh, my gosh.

Okay, here's what I would say. You have such great taste. This is, this looks. amazing. I just don't think I have the money to do it. So do you have a plan B or do you want me to try to get creative and do as best as the job I can? That's pretty good. That's all good? It's all right. Yeah. I would be honest since I love the Pinterest inspo. Here for it. I don't think we can pull that off with the budget that we have. That's what I said. I think mine was more clear. It was mine was more clear. You're like, they get creative.

Now she's like, yeah, get creative. Pull it off. Yeah. I would also get, like, see if the group of gals can help contribute. And then we say, here's the budget, and we're going to do as best as we can with the budget that we get. Love it. And you know what?

Her feelings might be hurt, and that's okay. Yeah. I guess some people would be. It's like one layer below Bridezilla, sometimes with these baby showers. And there's the sprinkle, but they want the sprinkle to be as big as the shower, even though it's a sprinkle. Hold on.

Do people really want that? Because I enjoyed like a nice baby char. I didn't eat over the top. And in my sprinkle, I had some friends when we went to Don Julio's Mexican restaurant and they gave me diapers. You're not the problem. I'm just saying not all women are as chill as you.

Anyways. Let freedom ring. Let freedom ring. That's what I say. Okay, another conundrum, please. Your family goes out to eat every Sunday after church and you typically split the bill evenly. You and your spouse are the only family without.

kids and you're really trying to save up cash for a new car because you're outnumbered you always spend more than you would if you just paid for your own budget-friendly orders yeah yeah okay okay you're ready for this hit me um hey guys so good to see you why are you starting like that i'm seeing everyone at the restaurant hey guys so good to see everyone um oh my gosh this food like so good. What are you trying to tell us, Rachel? If I'm at this lunch, I'm like, Rachel's not doing okay. Are you looking at the menu?

No, no, no, no, I'm just sitting there. So the food's already sitting there. Oh, well. Have we ordered yet? No. Okay. Where are you seeing the food then? It's like a Mexican restaurant that has the pictures on the menu, like one of those?

Got it. Okay. I'm going there with you now. I'm there. We're looking at the menu. We're all enjoying ourselves. Yeah, we're all enjoying our... And I say, oh, wow, this food looks...

Me and Winston are just going to have water. Winston and I. But you... Oh, whatever, George Camel. Stupid grammar police. Winston I just have water today. All this looks so great. And I just glad to be here.

But we're not going to probably do a bill. Like, I think you... I mean, you are... You are... We're probably not. going to do a bill? You opt out of the food completely. Then it's a very obvious, oh my gosh, they're doing something so different. So we're not going to make them pay for anything because they didn't eat anything. Just get past that we're probably not going to do a bill. Why not just say,

before you ever make it to the lunch, just say, hey guys, we're going to have to skip today. You have a good time. Are you forced to go? Are you forced to go? Because it's fun. If you enjoy your family, you want to be there. Are you going to eat before you go? Or after. but we're going to have waters. I'm going to be starving watching everyone eat. Well, suck it up. I'm sorry.

Okay, what if it's a Mexican restaurant? There's chips and salsa. And they served you and you partook and there's no bill. And then I would give like a, I'd give a $5 tip. If I was just eating free chips and salsa? Yes. Yeah, I'd give a $5 tip. Okay.

Right? I mean, isn't this fair? Yeah. And then I would say, we're probably not going to do a bill whenever the server comes over. What would you do? Would you just skip the whole event? And like totally. Well, and it's every Sunday.

So then I wouldn't feel as bad. You typically split the bill evenly. You're only family without kids. You're trying to... Well, I mean, the whole point here is just say, hey, we're going to get our own order. We're not going to get that much. You guys will all be on different checks.

As soon as you get there, just tell the waiter, hey, we're going to be in different checks. Whatever. But aren't they in debt? They're not supposed to be going on debt. No, they never said anything about debt. Oh. They just want to save up for a new car.

No. They're trying to save for new car in cash. Well, a new to them car in cash. Shoot. Okay, fine. whatever, yours is better. But you know what? Probably not going to do a bill.

I'm going to go to stores from now on and just get stuff. I'm like, you know what? Probably not going to do... I'm probably not going to do a bill. I don't think you need to charge me for any of this. I'm probably not going to do a bill. That's good. Anyways, I would make it an obvious, like, yeah.

That's a good declaration. All right, George. What an episode. That was mostly fun. Man, yeah, the war thing really took me down. It really threw me off. Yeah, all that bummer historical stuff. Yeah.

Why can we all just get along? Yeah. Let freedom ring. All right, George, man. That was something. Okay. But we're almost at the end of the episode, and we close out every episode with

Guilty as charged. And this is where our producer, Skyler, gives us a new guilty charge question every week. And if we are guilty, we take a sip. Skyler. Have you ever forgotten the words to one of our American anthems? Oh, one of? How many are there?

There's the national anthem. Is that Star-Spangled Banner? Oh, say, yeah. Yes. I like America. America the beautiful. That's another one. That's a great one.

What's another one? We got... There's a third one. Party in the USA. Party in USA. Honestly, that one... Miley. That one hits.

Oh, God bless America. Oh, yeah, a great one. Are you a fan of that one? What's the one about the hills of Tennessee and across the... Is that an American? Plains of... God bless America. God bless the USA.

That's God bless the USA. I guess that's like considered an anthem. I feel like it had to be older than that. Yeah, Star Spangled Banner, I definitely forget. Like when I'm glad to not be the person leading it. Yes. Whenever it's being sung. When you do see a celebrity like mess it up, it's, yeah.

It's a hard song to sing, right? Isn't it like one of the most complicated? Like, that's how I hear. Complicated? Yes. Okay, everyone, look, everyone's nodding. I think it's like known as a really hard song to sing. Will you try it?

No. Oh, say, can you see? By the dawn's early. The pitch-wise, it does go a lot of different places. Oh, yeah, and I don't have pitch. I will say. I have one pitch. It's a beautiful song.

It really is. It gets me every time. I get a little bleary-eyed and teary eye. Do you? Yeah, it just, when we're all doing it together and like the hands over the heart, there's something that's like, this is what it should be. Yeah.

We're just unified. It's not like unbridled nationalism. It's just like, hey, we're all in this thing together. It's a great reminder. I love it. Yeah, all together in America. But when it gets to the ramparts, I get a little, I'm like, what's going on here with the ramparts?

Yeah, we're not sure what that is. Or the ramparts. Not over, or. Or. Oh, apostrophe ER. Man, maybe I have, like, saying these really wrong. I don't know. Yeah.

I'm going to take a drink. I'm probably guilty. If they ever asked me to sing this for, like, I don't know, a football game, you know, when they invite. They think. George Camel. Yeah. I'm going to have, like, a teleprompter just in case.

I need a guy with a cue card just because I don't. You're nervous. Double check. Yeah. Can't risk it. And it's a long song. See, I'm guilty. but never publicly because that's a lot of pressure.

Yeah. But reach out NFL. Or college football. I'd be willing to concede to the SEC. Or hockey? Doesn't it like every sporting event, mostly? You sing it? Baseball.

Oh, great one. If you did Boston Red Sox, we would, Winston, I would fly up and go. Okay, if someone has connections to the Boston Red Sox and you know how to get me on that field, hit me up. To sing the national anthem. To sing the national anthem.

It's not going to happen. I think I could nail it. I really do. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, but I think I could do a decent job in the right key. Yeah, I believe that. I'm no Chris Stapleton, but I get the job done. Do what you got to do.

Do what you got to do. All right, George. Who finished their drink first? I think I caught up. Pretty. Even Stevens. We're pretty even. Yeah.

Look at that. You know, some of the drinks recently just haven't been quite like, quite on par. And this, though, was fantastic. It's nice. It's very light. I picture by a pool. Like, 4th of July if you're at the pool.

Oh, yeah. This is a great, like 3 o'clock. You want to pour something. This would be a good one. This is an American Collins, if you forgot. I'm going to give this drink. I'm going to say, I'll say, 7 out of 10. I was going to go 8 out of 10.

Like, there's nothing, I like it. I wish it was a little more punchier, like a little... It's a little sweet. Oh, it's a little sweet for you. Yeah. I just want it to be a little more of whatever. it is. Because it's good.

I just want more of it. Just have some contentment, George. A little more complex. But here's what's in it, Rachel. It's got gin, simple syrup, club soda, lemon juice, blueberries, and Bing Cherries. Oh. And Michael muddled the blueberries and cherries in there.

Wow. That's you'll notice. What a serving part he is. Really good. So check out the recipe in the show notes. Make it to celebrate America's Independence. Or wherever you're listening, in the world, you should also celebrate America's independence.

That's right, sure. Cinco to Mayo. We love a Mexican birthday. Yeah. Canada's got a boxing day? Is that their thing? Yeah. St. Patrick's Day? Anything like Ireland? I don't think that's celebrating independence.

Nope, just a saint. But people in Boston... We're all for the national other international holidays. Yeah, can I just say God bless the world to all the nations? Like he wasn't... Jesus wasn't here. So I'm just, I just want to put that out there. Jesus loves all the little children, all the children in the world.

Yeah, it's very true. So I'm happy to be in this country. I just want to say, I love all of you. I know we have international listeners, and I feel like sometimes they're left out. Yeah, we see you, we hear you, we appreciate you. And we know that a lot of this finance stuff doesn't relate to you, so thanks for listening anyways. Like 401Ks, what are they talking about? Oh, so great.

All right. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe you guys. make sure to share it with your friends and family that helps us out so much. The word of mouth to get the show out is up to you guys. And we really do appreciate it. That's huge.

We love seeing your posts on social too, your DMs. I mean, it's so fun. Especially the ones that say, why do you call it some money happy hour if it's only a half hour long? Well, here you go. This episode's too long. Do you like it now?

I'm kidding. But if you like this awkward money conversation, we did a whole episode about awkward money conversations that you should check out next. We'll link it in the description below. So great. All right, you guys. Well, we'll see you next Thursday on our all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour. You are so annoying.