Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - Rating the Most Predatory Financial Products

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

💵 Sign up for EveryDollar today. Create a free budget!  Are we the world’s biggest basketball fans? Not exactly. But we’re always game for a friendly bracket competition! Join Rachel and George for a special round of March MONEY Madness as they debate some of the worst financial products in the world. Next Steps ·      🔎 Get help from a financial advisor to avoid those sneaky loopholes that will leave you broke.   ·      ➡️ Don't miss out on the tax deductions you qualify for—get help from a pro.   ·      📱Submit a Guilty as Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it. Today’s Happy Hour Special 🍸 Grapefruit Jalapeño Mocktail Recipe: Allianna's Kitchen Grapefruit Mocktail Ingredients: ·      1 cup grapefruit juice ·      1 cup club soda ·      1/2 small jalapeño ·      1 teaspoon lime juice ·      Ice Instructions: Mix grapefruit juice, lime juice and club soda in a glass. Add ice. Garnish with 2–5 jalapeño slices, stir and serve. Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, George. Cheers. I feel like I went 70, you went 30 on that one. With the cheers clink? I feel like I had to really stretch it to get to you.

Oh, well, you're a giver. I'm a taker. Oh, no. Why do you say it out loud? Well, this is the show. We're two friends who happen to be money experts talk about which you're talking about. So everything from pop culture, current events, and money. And today, Rachel, all the.

this March Madness buzz, which you know me, I can't get enough of the madness in March. It's got us feeling a little competitive, so we're going to do our own version. Yeah, we're going to do a financial bracket for March Madness. Take that, sports. We're going to talk about the most predatory products out there on the financial market. With brackets. With brackets. That makes it sporty. We're so sporty. It's so great. It's going to be really fun, George. I'm very excited about it. And we're also going to test some of our knowledge when it comes to sports. Please don't. We are.

We're going to dive right in. And I'm going to be talking college sports, which is something I've been legally told not to do. So tune in for that alone. And you said when we sat down that you have your what kind of jacket on, George? This is my varsity jacket from when I played intramural football. I did one game in college. And no joke.

And a jacket's not from that game. I'm kidding. Okay. But I did play an intramural game of... Five football. Yeah. What happened? What college did you?

University of Mobile. We don't even have a football team. Pretty sure we have like a sword drill team. What sport did you play? I did not. I'm sorry. What position did you play on the field? I'm not sure in flag football intramural there really was positions.

There is at the University of Tennessee. They take them very seriously. I wish they took their college football seriously. Oh, you little. Roasted! They'll put sunglasses on me in post. Yeah, so what happened was I ran so fast

that my body flung forward and I tripped the guy in front of me he flipped over on top of me and his cleat landed in my armpit and it was borderline bleeding

I was sore for weeks and I never played again. It was my one injury. I could have gone pro and that one injury took me out. Never got to sign a contract. No, is it stuck there for you? That is the dream killer. But I got this varsity jacket from that. Okay.

It's worth it. Oh my gosh. And we're going to sip on this actually lovely moketail. It's a grapefruit jalapeno moktail, and I got to say this is maybe top three moktails we've had. So we're going to give it a rating at the end, reveal the cost per glass, and of course the recipe and the show notes. So stick around to the end for that. So I know you're an avid football player, obviously. We're not talking football, though.

No, that's my transition line, George. Handball. What? No, my translation. Stop it. Sorry, go again. Sorry, go again. Take two. George, so obviously you're a football player at hearts, but are you a basketball fan? I did play basketball in elementary school.

You did? Maybe middle school. Okay, yeah, yeah. Are you a fan of, like, just college basketball, like with March Madness? I would say we had the Celtics in Boston, so I was more pro than I was college. Our college teams were terrible. Okay. Like Boston College, probably the best.

We have for, I don't know. Okay. Okay, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, how about you? Not a big basketball fan. Can I be honest? It's the squeaking for me. Oh, is it?

It's a lot of squeaking. It bothers me. I don't know if I have sensory issues, but you're mostly just listening to squeaking when you're watching basketball. Yeah. Can I say this as someone that has never played basketball? Football, I watch and I see like, oh, absolutely, there are plays. They are being intentional.

That wide receiver is going that way. because the coach told them to all this. Basketball, they say there's plays. But it's a little chaos. It just looks like they're just running around. Yeah. Do you agree? The strategy is get the ball in the hoop.

I just always wonder. I just always wonder, are they really? It's like if you're blocked, try to pass it. And I'm like, what is he really telling them? Like, I mean, like, you just got to run the court, right? I just don't get it. And I married into a basketball family. Winston's brother played for college.

Winston played all the way through. Yeah. Winston was a college baller? No, his brother played Holy Cross Up in Coast of Boston. Holy Cross. I didn't know he played for Holy Cross. He played for Holy Cross. Yeah. Wow.

And Winston, yeah, played all through college. He got offered some stuff, but he did turn them down. His dad played. His grandfather played at UT. Like, they're big basketball people. And I married into this family. I know nothing about basketball. I don't get it.

So they're big into it. So they do March Madness. And our family trip with the cruises usually overlap spring break. So there was always brackets. I mean, they were just so hardcore. I don't know. I don't know.

So I don't have a, I'm not a big basketball fan. Well, lucky for you. We're talking about money in this episode, but we're going to test my college sports knowledge. Okay, so we're going to do a little assessment, George. We're going to give the team name, and we have to say the school. Okay. Unfortunately, this is going to be rough.

It's not going to be rough. Okay, but if I said, like, the volunteers, we would say Tennessee. Tennessee volunteers. All right, here we go, George. Cyclones. Okay, cyclones. That has to do a tornado. I'm going to go

Oklahoma. I'm going to go University of Kansas. I'm going to go the O-K-O-K-U. O-K-U. The correct answer is Iowa State. Oh, man, I got Iowa for a hot second. Dang, they got there.

Cougars. Cougars are native to not America, I feel like, so I'm going to go Texas. Texas Tech. No, definitely not. Texas Tech. The Cougars, it feels like a Virginia.

Classics. classic Virginia Coopers. Hey, you're close with Texas. It's Houston. Oh, man. Okay, George actually. All right, I'm closer. Shoot, the boiler makers?

Okay, I feel like where do they boil things? Who makes a boiler? I want to say Pittsburgh. It feels like a real. Oh, that's a great one. University of Pittsburgh boiler makers. Shoot, that's a really good one. What are you going?

going with. I was thinking more like the Great Lakes. Like a Michigan? We're going to go like a Wisconsin. This is my school. It's Purdue. Oh. Where's Purdue?

Ohio? Purdue is in Indiana. Close enough. Guys, they... I was closer. They border each other. The Blue Devils. One of the Carolinas.

Blue Devils. I'm going to go... North Carolina, South Carolina. UNC. Duke. Oh. Couldn't even get that. Did Michael Jordan play for UNC?

Tar Heels. Tar He was North Carolina. That's where he was a tar heel? Yep. Baby blue colors. Tard heel was UNC. I was right on, yeah. I was just one behind.

It's North Carolina as Tar Heels. Okay. Jayhawks, Kansas. That was my brother-in-law. Dang it. You got there first. You win that one. Oh, sorry.

I'm jumping out. I didn't know we should be looking ahead. I know. Huskies, Washington. Okay. What do you think? He felt very good. confident, Washington, Connecticut.

Got you. I knew that. Honestly. The badgers, I've heard of them. Washington. That's a Washington. Washington Badgers. No, the Badgers are like... Go Badgers. Is that a Wisconsin thing? Yeah, it feels like a Minnesota.

Wisconsin. Wait, okay. All right, finance is what? Wisconsin. I'm going Wisconsin. Wisconsin's correct. Because when I said, go Badgers. Go Badgers. I was like, that's Wisconsin.

That feels right. Minnesota. They create a team name based after what they can say. Beedgers. All right. So we're not doing great. Oh, Lord. Let's get back to money, George.

This is terrible. In 2023, an estimated 56.3 million people planned to participate and bets in the bracket contest, according to the American Gaming Association. So again, you throw a few bucks in, participate with the old coworkers in the office. Do one of those, the old office bracket? Um. No. Thank you for being honest. Because there's a lot of that happening at Ramsey.

Like the squares for the football. I know. I don't get that either. And Super Bowl is like, put a square up. And I was like, I bought that. Brackets are too stressful. I'm like, let's look at my nephew. Because we're on the trip with the cruises. I said earlier.

Like, they're all doing it. And it's the best because apparently the people that could actually win don't know anything about basketball. Like, apparently it's so random. Right? Because with March Madness, like these crazy small teams will upset huge teams. So the less you know, here the more advantage you have.

Wow. So I have a big advantage. You know what that reminds me of is like crypto. It's like the stupidity you are, the more likely you are to make some money accidentally. And then there you go. It's fall into a pile of money. There you go. It's like the lottery. That's what ends up happening. Okay, but the odd in picking a perfect bracket is, are you ready for this?

One and more than nine quintillion? That is a nine with 18 zeros after it. That is crazy. So in honor of the big. dance, as they call it in the biz, professionally. We've got a money-themed bracket, a little tournament, if you will. So each bracket will start with eight competitors for a total of four matchups. You keeping up?

I got it. This is a sport. Check, check. I want to make sure some people out there, they don't understand how brackets and tournaments work. We call them tourneys and biz as well. Brackies for short. So producer Skyler is going to announce each matchup. So, for example, if the bracket is best fries in the wall, world, she'll give us a list of the fast food chains that made it to the tournament.

And then she'll say our first matchup is Chick-fil-A versus Axpies. Okay, that's fun. No competition. All right. Waffle over crinkle. I love a crinkle. Oh, are you waffle? You're a crinkle?

I think crinkle for it. There are nowhere to be found these days. I mean, you can find them. The grocery store. Wow. All right. With a little season and all. Well, we're going to stick to money.

We're going to vote on each competitor and then Skyler will be the tiebreaker in case we have differing opinions. All right. Let's just jump right into it. The winner will advance to the next round and we'll go until we have a winner. Okay. Let's do this. Let's go.

The most predatory personal finance products ever made. Finally, a sigh of relief. This is so good. We can do this. We can pick a villain for sure in this situation. So Skyler, who made the top eight for most predatory personal finance products ever made? All right. So we have first the He-Lock or the Home Equity Line of Credit.

We have second, the arm or adjustable rate mortgage. Third, the payday loan. Fourth, Whole Life Insurance. Fifth, the car lease. Six, cryptocurrency. Seventh, the student loan. And the eighth one is the credit card. Okay, that's good.

Strong contenders. So in this first rounds, we've got four matchups. And then we're going to see who makes it to the semifinals, right? All right. Okay. What's our first? First match. Hit us.

All right, y'all. Let's talk about the HELOC versus the arm. I'm going arm. Well, we need to explain what these are first. This is unbelievable. Okay. Okay, the HELOC. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only professional in this day.

Oh, my gosh. I carry this podcast on my tiny shoulders. You just give me a competition, though. I'm going right in. I'm going right in, George. All right. Okay, the key lock is the home equity line of credit. Yep.

This is where people take equity out of their home, take a loan out on it. So if you have a $200,000 house and maybe you put down a down payment, you've been paying on it, and you're halfway through paying it off. So you have $100,000 left on the mortgage. That means you have $100,000 of equity. Now, granted, the house probably went up in value, but we'll keep the math simple. So you could take actually $100,000, take a loan out against your house because there's equity in it and go do what you want with it.

I mean, people use HELOCs for everything, usually for home renovations or putting in a pool, usually something to do with the house. some people use it for All kinds of things. Anything. I mean, funding kids' college if they don't have the money? So it's basically going backwards

and you're paying off your house but you're taking the value of your house and borrowing on it and it's not great. And then the adjustable rate mortgage, this is my basketball. And then the adjustable rate mortgage is where, yeah, the mortgage rate

adjusts depending on the market depending on what the mortgage company wants. Like you have no clue what your interest rate is. So it starts off lower traditionally. Yeah. So it seems good at first, but then the rate can go up. over time, depending on what kind of adjustable rate mortgage you have.

And so both of these are really risky. So the HELOC is like this credit card attached to your house. Yes. And the adjustable rate mortgage is a variable mortgage that will probably go up over time, and both can put you at big risk. Yes. So which one is most predatory? I'm going to go to the arm.

I'm going to HELOC. Wow, really? Yes. Okay. I think the helock, like very rarely. is anyone making a wise decision with the money from the HELOC. It's like, well, we just want the kitchen renovation and we don't want to wait to save.

It's very like lifestyle and consumer-driven. The arm is like, I'm just trying to buy a home and I want to do it the right way, and this interest rate is lower, so it's more attractive. But I think the HELOC is a more predatory financial product. To me, a HELOC, again, this is in the positive end, if someone's being smart with it, which you can't be smart with the heat lock,

we hate debt, all the things. But they're at least in a perfect world doing something to repair a house to make the value go up. Repair, putting the pool in. To go in and raise the value of the home. It would be a hope, right, that they're doing something where an adjustable rate mortgage,

I'm like, you could be in trouble. Like, if you're living paycheck to paycheck and your mortgage goes up and you can't afford your house. Like, you're screwed. Yes. But my thing is, it's easier. That feels scarier to me than knowing I'm taking the set amount out,

hopefully to put money back in the house, to redo a kitchen, all of that. And again, you're going to pay it off eventually, which sucks because you're in debt longer. But I don't know. But the he lock is like a second mortgage. So that makes me more nervous. And with a he lock, you can't just like refinance out of it like you can with the adjustable rate mortgage. So that's my... That's true. You have an out with the adjustable rate.

Okay. I'm trying to convince Skyler to vote in my direction. I just, yeah. Give me some more, Rachel. This is a funny game. It's the nerdiest. Play this with your friends. Give me a counter argument.

Yeah, so, I mean, for me, I'm like, it's going to up the value of the house. So eventually, most people are not in their house forever. Yeah. And they're eventually going to sell. And the hope is kitchens and bathrooms is the one place that you put value back in. And that's usually where people go and they'll redo stuff.

I didn't know Rachel was such a fan of the helo. I feel like I'm a different. The final counterpoint. But if I had to, I would pick, if I had to, I would pick that because there's a level of me that knows what's going on. The adjustment rate scares me because if you're one of these families that's living paycheck to paycheck, like 78% of Americans, George. Oh my gosh. Then you're, then you're, then you can be pushed out of your home. Like, to me, I'm like, oh my gosh.

My final counterpoint, you can't. You can't spell Helock without hell. Both are terrible. There will be hell to pay. Okay, go Skyler, it's fine. I'm going to go actually with the arm because I think that... What is this like women-supporting women-bi have going on here? No, this is not biased because I think that the arm is more predatory

because I feel like that more people get into a house that shouldn't. Yes, more likely to get the arm. Okay, I love you. Thank you. Moving on. Rachel 1. George, 0. What's the next match? All right. Round one, match two, is the payday loan.

versus whole life insurance. Oh, gosh. More predatory. Oh, man. So, okay, so let's explain what it all is. So payday loan, you basically go get a loan before you're paid. I mean, it really is people that are very struggling. Short-term loan, super high interest.

Crazy high interest rates. Like really predatory. Like, 400%. So crazy. So crazy. They're usually in low-income areas. And you get stuck in a cycle because they can't end up paying it. And it's six a minute.

and it's just, it's so greedy, it's terrible. I'm like, it's so bad. And these are truly people that, like, cannot make ends meet. So they're put in low-income areas, people that are truly in dark situations. Knowing it and being able to charge insane interests because they are being predatory. Predatory. Predatory. So predatory. Oh, gosh.

Okay. And then whole life insurance is a super high premium permanent life insurance policy that is touted as an investment because there's a portion that's a whole, a cash savings account that can build over time, but the ROI on these are so bad and you are making these salespeople huge commissions while you pay into it. They're like, well, 10 years later, you'll thank me. And it grows so slowly and the returns are so bad that it is scam level. And it's convinced a large portion of the population that this is the best way. This is a great investment and insurance where you can get term life insurance. It's way less expensive and take what you

would have paid for a whole life and invest it in the market on average 10, 11 percent, even in an index fund and you'd make way more money. So like it's not, it's a really terrible financial product. And term life obviously is for a term. So it's for 15, 20, 25 years. But here's the thing, you don't need life insurance for your whole life. Because at some point you're going to become self-insured to where your investments cover you.

You're out of debt, all the things. Yep. Okay. Which one, George? Oh, I think payday loans. Me too. It hurts my heart. Totally agree with both of you guys.

Oh, okay. George was nice being on. Rachel wins again. It's nice being on the same team. you again, George? That's right. You'd never choose me. If this was like...

Match number 30. If this was school and you had to choose like who's going to be on your team, you wouldn't pick me. For what? Financial Debate Club? No, for sport. Okay.

Aw. Yes. He would pick me either though. Unless I had a pickleball racket. First of all, thank you for ever thinking they would allow me to be captain to choose the team. Oh, George.

It makes me sad. It's fine. You could. I'm not mad. Match three. All right. Round one, match three is the car lease versus cryptocurrency. Oh, which one is more predatory? Okay, so let's explain the car lease. Leasing it, we say, is the most expensive way to drive a car. This is a glorified rental. You don't own it, you turn it back in, you make monthly payments, and you're basically prepaying the expected depreciation on that vehicle. There's a lot of taxes and fees, and you have to keep up with mileage, and you can't have

damage and you have to, it's a lot of headache. And if you don't purchase the car at the end of the lease, then you have to give it back to the dealer. And then you have to turn around and just get to a life of more payments. You have no equity. You've literally rented a car for three years. Yeah, nothing to show for it. So buy your cars and cash, avoid leases, even if the payment seems lower than it would

on a car loan, don't like these. Yeah. And then cryptocurrency. And this was a fat, I feel like it's kind of gone, it feels like it's less hyped up. Well, I think a lot of the hyped coins have gone away, and there's a few that are like Bitcoin and Ethereum. But it's basically digital currency is what it ends up being. And I'll say this sitting here. We could look up in 15 years and it's really caught on and it's become a thing, right?

But we don't know. And that's the thing is a lot of people cashed out investments that had long-term track records to invest in something new like crypto thinking it's the next big thing. And it fluctuates so much on the value of it. And we always just say, like, if you're going to invest in something that doesn't have a long track record, just be cautious. Make sure you're doing everything else well. If you want to put some in

and know that it may all be gone, you can do that if that's what you want to. But so many people just went all in on it and we were like red flag. And then because it's digital, so many scams came out of it. So many people lost money. It was terrible.

Okay, so predatory. Lease or crypto. I think as far as predatory financial product, I'm going to go car leases. Me too, George. I kind of hate that we're on the same team. again, but... You hate it?

I wanted it to make to you because that was fun. I'm going to say Carlease too. It just feel... Anything to do with the car...

Like, cars are just toys. Yes, that's going down in value. And truthfully, people have made money through crypto. No one is making money from a car lease. That's right. No.

No, no, no. So therefore... And the craziest thing is with a car lease, they don't have to disclose the interest rate because it's not technically defined as debt by the institutions. Yep.

And so they can kind of bake it into your payment and screw you over that way. Yes. So it's extra gross. And there's this level, too, where people are like, well, I love just to drive a new car. I love to drive a new car. So I'm going to do a car lease,

and I'll forever just get a new car. When my terms up, I'll lease another one. And again, it, not that driving a new car is bad, but I think it perpetuates this idea of keeping up so much, too, that people can get stuck in this, like, rhythm of like, if you have a car lease, you're always going to have a car that's less than three years old, even when you shouldn't be driving. That's right, that's right, yeah.

It's like encourages that part. We're like, no, like your identity is not your car. And a Carly's, and for some people, the motivation can be like, well, I just want to keep driving a new car, you know. I like that. I don't like that. Well, we have a winner, Skyler. It's the Carleys.

Love it. Didn't need a tiebreaker there. Do you agree or would you say crypto? Should we debate Skyler? No, definitely agree. We will fight me. She said, no. I cannot disagree with my elders.

Elders? How old do you think Rachel is? Wow. She's only seven years older than you. Maybe nine. I don't know. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

Okay, match four. All right. Round one match four is the student loan versus the credit card. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. This is a tough one. Okay. So a student loan.

We know what this is, but explain it. Because we're so smart. We know. We know what it is. This is a loan for students. My colleague, Rachel, explain this term. to all you commoners out there watching this. So imagine you're a student.

Oh, okay. Looking to pursue higher education. Student loan is taking out debt to get a college degree. To go to school and take out debt. With the hope of getting the degree to then make more money than you would have. So it's an investment of your future. So people see this as good debt because they're like, well, there's ROI here, Rachel. It's an investment in my future.

Yes. And for most people, they're borrowing from the government. Some people do price. private loans, but usually it's the government doing it. And student loan debt now in the U.S. has over $1.77 trillion, according to the Federal Reserve. All right, George, what's a credit card? A credit card, so it's like a card, but it's credit.

See? So it's not tied to your bank account. It's tied to the credit card company, and you're promising them, and they're hoping that you pay this off with your own money later on. Yes. Let's say 30 days later. And so they're playing psychological games with your mind through cash back in rewards and airline miles.

And minimum payments, in my opinion. And minimum payments. Oh, you don't have to pay the full amount. You can just pay the... Just give us $50. Just $30. $35, $40. But we're going to charge you interest on that.

Of on average now, 22%. APR. That's frightening. Crazy. So which one is... Now, student loans have a lowered interest rate. Yes. Still can be high.

They can still be, you know, five to ten percent. Oh, man. Okay, so more predatory. But what's more predatory? Oh, my goodness. That's hard. All right, I think I have my answer. Let me get mine first, so that we say it at the same time.

That's what I was going to say, George, for someone who's alike. Or BFFs. It's almost like we can finish each other's sentences. Oh, my gosh. I hate myself. I have no self-worth. All right. Um, I'm ready.

Wait, wait, wait, I can't remember what I chose. I really thought. Got it. Okay, here we go. One, two, three. Student loans. Jinks, you want me a Coke? Oh, man.

Okay, I'll give you my reasons why. As we sit here today, I don't know if I can say in complete full confidence that the ROI of getting a degree for college is going to pay off eventually. The tuition rate is insane. Nobody is there telling the schools are regulating tuition.

So they're charging as much as they want because the government will still lend it out as much as they want. And people still buy in this idea that if I can just get a four-year degree, I'll be fine. And we're just seeing the, we are seeing the market shifts so much

and really since COVID, but the last like 24 months, more job opportunities are happening with people that don't need a college degree. And they're not, a lot of companies are not, you know, requiring it. So again, we're for education. I'm saving up for my kids college. Like, I do think, you know, if you have the ability to pay for it, you know, that's great. But it is not needed.

It is not needed. And it is not as competitive. I think back 30, 40 years ago, only a select portion, like, of the population was really even able to go to college, right? So it really, like, made them stand out. but now because the government is loaning out so much, really anybody can have the ability to go at any level, right? Community College all the way up. So if you can work your way through,

get scholarships, do the due diligence to not take out loans to go. Again, I'm not like bashing education, but man, they make you believe you can go anywhere and will give you any amount of money at 18 years old. And it's so dangerous. It is so dangerous. That's a good take. I'll just add this.

I think with student loans, it's even worse because as a society, we've all agreed that this is an okay debt. Like credit card debt, we're like, well, you shouldn't carry a balance. With student loans, it's almost encouraged, and the guidance counselors and the parents and the colleges are all telling you this is good.

This is good for your future. They're all in cahoots to screw you over. And as we take calls on the Ramsey show, the people calling in with 50, 100, 200, 300, 300,000, $1,000 in student loan debt is overwhelming. Compared to credit card debt, which most people have, 10, 10, 15, 2030 is like, that's a lot. Right, right.

Some people have even more than that. But I think student loans, because we've made it an okay debt. The amount is so much. And because of what you were talking about. Colleges have raised tuition because they're like, well, people will just take out more loans. Who cares? Yep.

That hasn't really happened as much with credit cards. We're not seeing prices on everything come up because, well, I'll just put it on the car. No, but credit card debt did just hit $1.3 trillion, the highest it's been. I mean, it is a avenue that people will bank on. I still think credit cards are dumber, like as far as a, you know, if you're going to choose a debt to go into. But I think student loans are more predatory as an industry.

And if you don't believe us, go watch the borrowed future documentary that we produced. It's free on YouTube. Yep. So good. Skyler, you have no say in the matter. We've decided. We've agreed. All right.

We have our four. So what's our bracket? For the semifinal. All right. So we have. We're going to do arm versus payday loan, and then we're going to do car lease versus student loan. Okay. So arm versus...

Yep. So our first one, our first semifinals match one is arm versus payday loan. Okay, ready, George? One, two, three. Payday loan. All right. Semifinals match two is Carlees versus student loans. Oh.

Hmm. You got your answer? Yeah, I got it. One, two, three. Student loans. Wow. Okay. So we're at the championship round. And we have payday loan versus student loans.

Wow. This is a tough one. Okay, because the key word here for me on this whole subject, maybe my answers would have shifted if it was like the dumbest time of day. You said the most predatory personal findings. That's it. Yeah. Is the word we're using.

Okay. What's two on three again? Wait, I don't know if I'm ready. This is a tough one. I know, I know, I know. Oh, man. Because one affects more of the population. Yeah.

So is that more predatory? Or is it... One goes after the least of these, and one is going after the middle of these. Save it. Save it. Save it. What do we do, what do we do, George? All right.

I think I know. I think I know. Okay. Here we go. Ready? One, two, three. Payday loans. Yes!

Wow. I agree. Because the upside to a student loan is maybe you get a great degree and you go make great money and you live your American dream. And you pay it off and all this way. Payday loans, you get freaking stuck in that cycle of people and it's so hard, so sad. That's where I kept going back to. Well, we hate payday loans so much.

I just kept going back to like charging someone 400% interest. Yeah. Which means the balance grows faster than they can pay it. And even though it's a way smaller amount than student loans, they'll never get out of it. and they turned to other kinds of debt to try to pay that off, and that cycle is so much harder to break. It is.

Then, you know, the middle class trying to pay off a student loan. Oh, man. George, that was intense. I'm kind of sweating. Like, I play basketball. That's as close to as athleticism as Rachel will get today. And me over here, my varsity jacket. I know.

We are really sports heavy. Well, George, whew, that was a game. It was. But I think it was also, it helped me process my thoughts. I know, it's good. That's a good one, for sure. So it's almost the end of the episode, and we close out every episode with

Guilty as charged. And this is where our producer, Skyler, gives us a new guilty-starched question every week. And if we are guilty, we have to take a sip. So, Skyler. All right, have you ever been obsessed with a trend that you now find embarrassing? Oh, wow.

This can be anything from, like, the cinnamon challenge to... Who's obsessed with the cinnamon challenge? No. I don't know, maybe you. Oh, man. All right, I'm about to say something, and I don't know if I should. Is this a safe place? This is a safe place?

Because I may turn back around. I won't judge you personally. The listeners may. But do you know what trend, and it's been a few months that I haven't felt as passionate about? Taylor Swift. No. Oh. Okay.

Conspiracy theories. You're embarrassed? That I'm not been as passionate About that part of my life As I have been in the past. You're embarrassed at the lack of passion And not the fact that you think We didn't land on the moon.

Rachel. You have no regrets. Oh no, I have no regrets that I'm not on the up and up. You still think we did not land on the moon? No, no. All right, y'all, let's not get into all of that. She's embarrassed about her lack of, But that's it.

I was on a trend of the conspiracy theory trends very heavily, and I embarrassed to say that I'm not anymore. Oh, it would be embarrassed that you were part of it? Yeah. Oh, I got the wrong sentiment of this question. It's okay. You've ever been obsessed with the trend that you now find embarrassing? I hear you look back.

Stanley Cups. Silly, never drink out of them anymore. That's a good one. You were obsessed with Stanley Cups? I'm just trying to give you something here, George. It's the end of a long game? I will say. You used to wear skinny jeans.

I'm not embarrassed by that, though. Then mom jeans came along. And jeans with the little frills on them. There may be some clothing. And I was all offended that you ditched me in the skinny gene gang. Yeah. We had something going there. I left you.

Okay, what about you? I'm not embarrassed about skinny jeans. A trend I was obsessed with. I mean, I used to love pogs and Pokemon. and I look back on that and I'm like, oh, that's what like crypto bros are to me now. You know what I mean? Okay, but you were a child.

I was a child. Yeah. But I'm still like, why was I like slamming pogs? You know what I mean? Like, what were we doing? Yes, oh my gosh. There's still an embarrassment. Beanie babies.

Yeah. They did have a camel beanie baby that I was into. Of course. As one does. As one is. I don't know that I was ever in a really embarrassing trend. I never got on Jinko's. those jeans

like my buddies had them you know I mean cargo shorts I had the zip off you know cargo pants that turned into shorts that was a trend that was very passionate about

I just came up with it this one's even worse okay go satchels like a man like not like a messenger bag I'm talking about

I would go to Goodwill I would find an old canteen I would take the canteen out and just use the pouch as I took a tiny purse. And in hindsight, I was like, Peter Pan minus any magic. And I would, like, you would think, like, what does he have in this?

Like, maybe he has, like, cool tools. Like a knife, like a pocket knife or something. I carried chapstick. You know what I mean? I care, like, bath and body works, anti-microbial hand sanitizer. Some aquifer for the knuckles in the... So looking back,

There's photos of me with my man satchel that I thought was like, I was like, I'm a Boy Scout from the 1940s. So embarrassing. Don't know that it was ever a trend. Didn't start it. Oh, my gosh. That's funny.

Guilty. So guilty. So guilty. Oh my gosh. That's funny. Oh. All right. Who finished it?

Whoa, yeah. You did. Whoa, yeah. That was fantastic. Great mocktail. What would you give the rating? 10 out of 10 for this mocktail. Genuinely, that could replace a margarita.

If you were at a Mexican restaurant and you didn't want to drink, but you're like, I want a fun drink, though, like I want a good mocktail. I would do that because it's what? Great, we'll tell us what's in it. Here's what's in the grapefruit jalapeno moktail. It is grapefruit juice.

Yeah. Club soda for a little fizz. Halapeno, fresh, and lime juice. Okay. So you basically have... I don't know... I'm not kidding. It's like a virgin margarita.

I would order that at a restaurant. It's like grape juice. a little bit of club soda, some lime, and jalapinos. And you'll never guess the cost. Okay. I mean, I'm going to go. You said that, so it must be a dollar 25. 90 cents.

No way. Less than a buck. Love it even more. And I do think if you wanted to spice it up for an adult beverage, adding a shot of tequila would make this a win. All right. It's closing time. Probably for the best.

If you loved this episode, make sure to share it. I think. You want to share this episode with your friends and family. Did they spike Rachel's? And, uh... Leave a review. Leave a review.

Subscribe. Dude. Okay. Oh, let's do a March Badness real quick. Should they subscribe or leave a review? Ready, set. Wait, one. Two.

Are you counting up or down? Just choose. Oh, hold on. I think which one I want to pick. One, two, three. Leave a review. Leave a review for us. I can't read your reviews.

But you know what? Do both. Be a good person. Why leave a review but not subscribe? Share the episode. People you love, you guys. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next Thursday on an all-new episode of

Smart Money Happy Hour.