Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruze and George Kamel - Scale of 1–10: How Strict Are We on These Ramsey Rules?

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

❓ Have a money question? Ask Ramsey is here to help!   Have you ever read an “opinions are my own” disclaimer in someone’s social media bio? That’s the vibe of today’s episode. Today we’re confessing (and explaining) some of our most “non-Ramsey” financial takes. Next Steps: ·   🎙️ Catch our episode Decoding Weird Things Dave Ramsey Says ("Plastic" Surgery?) ·    💵 Create a free budget and find more margin with EveryDollar. ·   🍸 Follow Smart Money Happy Hour on TikTok: @smartmoneyhappyhour ·   📱 Submit a Guilty As Charged question for Rachel and George! Send a DM to @rachelcruze or @georgekamel on Instagram! Be sure to type “GUILTY?” at the top of your message so we don’t miss it.    Connect With Our Sponsors: ·   Check out the FAIRWINDS Credit Union exclusive account bundle. ·   Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. ·   Get 20% off with code SMARTMONEY at Cozy Earth.   Today’s Happy Hour Special: 🍷 Blackberry Gin Sour Recipe by Mint & Twist ·   2 ounces London dry or floral gin ·   3/4 ounce fresh lemon juice ·   3/4 ounce blackberry simple syrup  ·   1 egg white, optional for foam   Instructions: Chill a coupe glass in the freezer or fill it with ice while you make the drink. Add the gin, blackberry syrup, lemon juice and egg white to a cocktail shaker without ice. Shake hard for 15 seconds. Add a generous handful of ice and shake again for 15 seconds until well chilled. Tip the ice from the coupe glass and strain the cocktail in. Garnish with fresh blackberries on a skewer.     Explore More From Ramsey Network: 💰 George Kamel 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever seen a opinions on my own disclaimer and a social media bio? That's the vibe of today's episode. We are sharing or confessing our most non-Ramsey takes. George and I have different takes up this probably a little bit. Oh, boy. Okay. This is one of the most hotly debated baby sets. But I'm going to go six.

I like a little bit of the drama. You do like the drama. Hey guys, I'm Rachel Cruz. I'm George Camel. And this is Smart Money Happy Hour. Cheers, George. Cheers. Wonderful.

Well, this is the show where two friends who happen to be money experts talk about what you're talking about, everything from pop culture, current events, and money. Well, I'm puckering up over here because we're sipping on a blackberry gin sour.

The tartness is great, though. You love a tart. I like it tart and sour. Kind of like me. This is you. We're going to give you our rating and reveal the cost per glass at the end of the episode,

so stick around for that. You know, George, I feel like we do make assumptions about people from time to time. Do you make any about me? You probably assume I like Microsoft Excel. I assume... You know what I assume, George?

I assume we're opposites. I assume you probably are doing more socially than you want to admit on the show. Whoa. What does that mean? Yeah, you like to be like, I don't have enough friends. Are you accusing me of having a social life? Rude.

I do. That's my assumption of you, George. That's only because I just know you so well. I appreciate that. No, I just... Yeah, I would assume you have... I think your closet's probably, I would assume. Very organized.

In a perfect world. It starts that way. Yes. I'll take a weekend. I'll go, I'm going to really go to town, but eventually it falls apart. Okay, mine too. That makes me feel better. Yeah. All right. Well, maybe my assumptions are wrong. You know what they say about assuming it makes a jerk out of you and me. Yep. Makes a out of you and me. I'm not going to say. You're trying to give me to say it. My mom watches this show.

No, but it gets annoying because people assume like, oh, he's probably. professional athlete and I have to always tell them no I did a little bit of ball in high school but I quit they always have an injury you ever noticed that people were like yeah I was about to go pro but had an injury but I had an injury oh it's all you were that close we know that close we know those people we do do people make assumptions about Dave like that Dave doesn't want you to spend any money on anything you enjoy yes okay there was like a whole coffee thing did you see this it was actually a show with me on it you were on that call I was on the call and it was like you know My daughter, how do I tell my daughter that, like, she does terrible things?

Like, she just drinks specialized coffee all the time. And Dave's like, is that her only toxic trait? Like, is she good with money? Is she a responsible? She's a good human being? Okay, let her drink the coffee. And so many people clip that. It was like basically, use the audio of it.

Let's play it. Let's play it so the people at home can hear what we're talking about. It was gold. How can I help my adult daughter understand how much money she is wasting on specialty coffee? Oh, you're not going to like my answer. What's she graduating in? She'll have a degree in landscape architecture. And is she a good person?

Is she of good character? She's a great person. She's smart. She's incredibly talented. Her only sin is specialty coffee? I mean, it's not a sin. It's just that she's going to be starting her independent financial life. And I don't think she realizes.

I think she will realize it, though. Yeah, when she looks down and sees her Starbucks bill, she's going to go, oh, my, this is wild. I personally wouldn't bring up the coffee ever again if I were you. see Rachel, he can be the fun Papa Dave from time to time. I know. And I like that he called out the mom, like, just let her enjoy her life. She's an upstanding citizen doing great. Yes.

It's okay to enjoy it. She's on a budget, paying cash. She's not in crippling debt. So good. I know. Not what we thought. Yeah, and some people assume that we just want them to buy crappy cars their whole lives too. And they're like, this is my Dave car.

This is my Dave car. This is my Ramsey car. And it's like, yeah. And we always laugh because we're like, buy the nice car. I do want to rebrand. I think we should call it the Ramsey car. is your bad car. Your Dave car is your nice car.

No. What do you think? No. The Rachel car. Oh. I got my Rachel car. That's a truly baby step seven live like no one else. That's that new minivan.

I see you. I see you. The thing is Dave has a lot of options. You know what I mean? Like when I wake up, I'm not like, hmm, which car do? What mood am I in? It's like a mood ring for Dave. I know what mood he's in based on what car he is.

That's what everyone says, especially that work on the show. They're always like, which car did he drive in today? Kind of gives the vibe of him. If it's in a beautiful sunny day and he's driving that big old Ford Raptor truck in, I'm like, oh boy. Look out. Look out.

Who wronged him? He's feeling aggressive. He drives the vintage Corvette. I'm like, oh, it's a good day. It's the day to ask for a raise. Talk to him about our commission structure, George. What is your mood ring? Is there a tell that you have?

Like, I can kind of tell how your day is going or will go based on something about you. Do you wear different clothing? Maybe my hair. Oh, what's today? telling us. I had fun. I just wanted to be like a little spunkier.

It is fun. Thank you. That looks difficult. I am feeling under the weather a tad bit. So I was like, I just need something bright and fun to add to my day. So there's that. Yeah, if it's like a real black, real back, slick ponytail, slick back ponytail, you know, who is she going on day three here?

So we just need it. Is that intentional? Like day three with no shampooing there? Day three would be not unintentional. That means it just didn't have time in the morning. Day two is intentional. I try to go every other day. That's smart.

Yeah. Do you wash your hair every day? Everyday shampoo and conditioner separately. I'm not a two-in-one guy. If you ever assume I'm a two-and-one guy, egg on your face. Are you a rinse-and-repeat shampoo guy? What does that mean? Like I do it twice?

Rinse and repeat. No, that feels excessive for a guy who's already doing this every single day. Okay, okay, that's fair. But I've heard if you don't shampoo your hair for like a week or two, it's healthier and thriving. Okay, they claim that, and now they're all backpedaling. I just talked to my hair girl about this, that the actual washing of this, anyways, we could get into it.

But apparently they are now saying no. Like they, not that it should be an everyday, but it needs to be more than the like week-clock. So I'm on the right side of history. As of today, but in three years, they're going to change it again. Who knows? We can't keep up. I did hear ankle socks are coming back.

Yeah, good. Eventually the trends all turn around. So I'm just going to stick to what I'm doing, guys. All comes back for you. Well, speaking of trends, Ramsey is known. for having the same principles for over 30 years now. We are old school, traditional approach to finance, gods and grandma's ways of handling money.

So I get why people jump to conclusions about us being sticklers, but most of us have surprising takes that are, you know, a little more nuanced, not typical black and white Ramsey stance. Yeah, and the Ramsey shows a good spot because people call in with their scenarios and we're able to kind of walk through them. And sometimes our advice is way different than what, you know, someone would think.

and we see it in the comments. So we actually pulled two clips that our opinions, advice, if you will, were a little different than what some of even the people commenting thought we would say. Shock the audience at home. I know. So the first one was with me and Ken Coleman. Okay. And yeah, this was a fun one.

Here, you have to check it out here. My daughter is 22, and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt. She was able to get on the presale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert. We got him for like $209 a piece. So now I'm seeing these resale. Oh, it's crazy. Oh, it's crazy. It's insane.

Yeah. And so I told her, like, look, you know, we're trying to. I know where you're going with this, Jill. Loan debt to pay down. Why don't you, why don't we sell those tickets and you can knock down so much of your student loan, but you'd be so far ahead. She says it's non-negotiable. it's a bucket list item.

And it's her money, right? No, it was my money. Oh, okay. It was my money. I paid for them. Would you be putting $9,000 plus dollars towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets? I would not. All right.

I wouldn't resell these tickets. What? Okay. Are you shocked at his response? Yes, Jill. This is the Holy Spirit moving. I thought you were going to be scrooge. Tell Olivia, please tell Olivia that we're going to the concert.

Oh, Olivia, you get to go to the Taylor Swift concert. T Swift. That's where you draw the line. Make the memories. Make the memories. Now, if it was an artist that you didn't know or didn't like, would your advice have changed? Me as the person that they called in? Yes.

Like, it wasn't Taylor Swift. I don't know who you would not like in the music world. I know, no. Nickelback, I don't know. Right. Should I spend $1,000 on nickelback tickets? Admit it. You were biased.

Stop. No, stop. If she loved the artist, the person calling in as much as she said she loved Taylor, I would just, I would be the same. Because, again, she's not going into debt for it. Like, I don't know if I could financially stomach, like, doing that. But, yeah, so, yeah, keep the tickets. Go, girl.

Go have fun. Tell you. The memories. I think you're on the right side of history with that one. I do. You know, if we watch 100 years from now, your grandkids are watching. Thank you. That's so cool, Grandma, Ray.

I don't know what they'll call you. Ooh, Ray, Ray. But I did this for my own wife. Winnie and Ray Ray. Winnie and Ray Ray? That's so cute. You think he's going to go by Winnie? He went by Winnie as a little kid?

By his mom. Do you think it'll go full circle, old man, winning? Yes. Yes. I don't see Winston as a Winnie as an old man. As a grandpa. Grandpa Winnie. People curly.

Yeah, and one of my friends, Curly is her dad's life. The problem is Winston will never age enough to look like a grandpa. You know what I mean? What would it be then? We, it's because it's got to go with the W. There's nothing.

There's no nickname for Winston other than Winnie, right? I know. Winnie and Ray Ray Ray. I do like Ray Ray. Grandma Ray Ray actually hits. Grandma Ray Rayra's going to be fun. Jury's out on Winnie, but we'll let him decide if he wants. What are you going to be?

What's your grandpa name? Grumpy? I think they're not going to talk to me. I don't think they're going to call me. He's sitting in a chair at a senile. George, stop. They'll probably call me grumpy. I don't like the vines you send to your elderly self.

Don't do that. No, I'll love my grandkids. Yes. They'll probably come to me for money because then I'll be like, sure, go have fun. You know what I mean? They should call you. G money? I was thinking like a, I was to say, dollar, like George Washington's face is on a dollar.

You're George. Gio? What if I'm a cool grandpa? Gio. They call me Gio instead of George. Okay, Gio's cool. I'm going to be cool when I'm older. I know I'm not cool now, but I'm going to age into the coolest.

Oh my gosh. Gio and Winnie. And she can be. Whitney can be Winnie too. Whitney can be Winnie. We'll have two winnie. I know. Be sweet, George.

And then when we actually are friends in real life, we can hang out. I'm just kidding. What'd you call your grandma? Do you have a name for your grandma? Mamma and Papal. So southern. You know you're from the south if you have a Mammaul and Papal. I know.

That's sweet. What was yours? Arabic? Yeah, Teta is the Arabic. Teta. Yep. And then Jiddo. Jiddo.

That's Lebanese. If you go, Egyptian, it's a Harji. So it's Giddo. Giddo or... Giddo or... Urgida. So that's what my daughter, Mia, calls my dad. She does.

It's so cute. That is cute. Are you, take, keep your Arab-Arabic, yes, heritage with you, Georgia. Gotta keep some culture in this family. You should. What is Whitney? What's her family of origin, do you know? They're like Eastern European.

Oh my gosh, y'all could have super cool grandparent names that came from your ancestors. She just went ma-and-paw or her grandparents. Probably as simple as it gets. I love it. I love it, you know. Too cute. Okay. Next up at the call with me again. Apparently, I'm the fun one. So this is me.

The Rachel Cruz Show lives on. Fine. Me and John took this call, and it was a great one. I've always been the most frugal person my whole life and always invested. And even though no matter how much I have, like, it's still hard for me. Like, every penny I'm still, like, looking at when I'm spending it even though I don't have to. Basically, I have so much. And I only spend it on, like, vacations, travel. So I was wondering, like, Like if I want to go on a trip like with girlfriends, see if I can cover them or, um,

but then everyone's like, nobody knows. I have much money because I don't use it or anything. How much? How much is this? Over 14 million. 14 million? 14, yeah. Didn't see that coming.

Well done, Lindsay. Yeah. You want me and John to come on a trip. You can all go anywhere with you, Lindsay. How did you accumulate that much? I've always invested in everything in a soft, and that's fun. Okay, how old are you? 54.

Okay. Are you married? Not anymore. No. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kids?

They're adults. Okay, so your question is, you want to go on a girl's trip and pay for your friends. So they don't usually, like, have money. You know, they probably have money problems. Nobody, you know, no. So I don't know if it's awkward and weird and if they kind of don't want that and if it makes things, you know, weird and stuff like that. Totally.

Totally. Absolutely. If you need your reaction knowing your friends well, how do you think they would react? if you're like, hey, I have a bucket list trip I want to take and I want my people with me and I kind of just want to treat everyone. Would that make it weird for your friends? You know your friends well enough. Is that, is that awkward for them? Would they be offended? Would they be excited? How do you think they would respond? I don't know. One might, you know, one might be like, oh, that's okay. You know, they just might feel awkward. But I think in general, I'm sure they would like it.

But it's just weird because, like, I mean, they have no idea, you know? Yeah. They don't have to know all that. Okay, what do you think, George? You got 14 mil? You taking a bunch of friends on a plane? Like, because I know math. I'm going private jet if I'm her too. Like you fully should charter. Oh, she should charter. Yes. I think she should go all out. 14 million. That's what I'm saying. I know math. She's 56. She has 14 million dollars. She's going to have a hard time spending that all. And she's single now. So yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to think of a number that would be like two over the top for her to spend on this trip. But I don't think people would even know what she spent. Like let's just dream with her for a second.

Say she took everyone to, what would be like a super fun girl, like Caribbean? Yeah. Cabo? Cabo, Wabo. You know, and you like rent a house. Yeah, let's do the Cabo thing. Private jet to Cabo and rent a house for a week. Rent a house.

You got masseuses there. Private chef. Yeah, you go all out. Those girls are not going to know how much it costs. Do you what I'm saying? So like go all out. But they won't know. So that's a good thing.

Yeah. She could probably, I might guess is 50 grand. You know what I would do. If I had that. You know, they have like the goodie bags on everyone, and you got the, oh my gosh, nice, like super goop sunscreen. Oh my gosh.

Like they do with the Oscars. There's like luxury items in the goodie bags. Yes, drop like 400 bucks per goodie bag. I was going to say $2,000 each goodie bag. Let's go crazy. George. You know, even more fun, we all get a Louis. We go and we all get one.

We all leave with a Louis. Oh, man. Anyways. This is fun. That's fun. That's fun. I like that. I can't think of a better use of money

than enjoying it with your friends. Okay, so our team also compiled a few classic Ramsey takes. May or may not be in the gray area. So sue us, but it's good conversation to be like, hey, look, let's look at some of these scenarios

that could go one way or the other. Let's find the gray, if we will. Okay, well, speaking of gray, I got my new gray cozy earth sheets. I think I've told you about them. Yeah. That's how we ordered, oh, you guys, it is just, it just makes me so happy.

even more. I don't know why. Do you ever have to swap them out for other sheets? Now you have multiple cozier sheets. I know. That's what I'm saying. It's swapped with the other. It's all just too good. Life is too good. So Cozy Earth, I mean, everything that they have from the cuddle blankets, your bath towels, your lux towels, bamboo pajamas, all the bedding, the lounge wear. And this shirt I actually found on Cozy Earth.

Stop it. I don't think you can get it. It was an exclusive limited time offer. But you can't look like me. But I love it. I like it. I like it. materialism. It's like the same material as their sheets almost. Yes. It feels very luxurious.

Oh my gosh. I want to be on like Martha's Vineyard right now. I want to be summering in the vineyard. Is that so wrong? No. Where are you summering? So good. Well, check it out.

You guys can go to cozy earth.com slash smart money and use our code smart money for 20% off. And if you see the post-purchase survey, make sure you told Cozy Earth that you heard about them here on Smart Money. Don't get to keep. All right. here we go. Ramsey takes and we're going to rate if we agree or not some of these might be what you would think. If you didn't know Ramsey that

well, you just won't, don't those Ramsey guys think this? There could be some of that in here. So here's the first one. No one can use credit cards responsibly. Full stop, no exceptions. It always ends catastrophically. Where would you rate this? So 10 being totally agree, one being

I totally disagree. I'm going like six and a half. Wow. I was going to go four. Well, because like the hard stop, no credit cards is the truth. Yes. So we're out of five.

The statement so far is out of five. Half true. The other half is that, yes, it's going to end catastrophically. It's horrible. No one can do all this stuff. And listen, we know people pay off their credit cards every month. Yes, people do that. We know.

They exist. But the problem is we see the other side of the coin. And it's like, it's just not worth it. And we know you spend more on a credit card than you want a debit card. All these things combined, it's like, just don't. But yeah, the drama that it's going to end catastrophically for every single person, that's not true. But I'm going to go six. I like a little bit of the drama.

You do like the drama. I'm going for, here's my take on this. Yes, people can use them responsibly. Does it always end catastrophically? No. But I do think I can go, even if. Even if you pay it off every month, you're going to spend more than you would have with a debit card. And you cannot fight me on that because you've not tried it.

No one will take me up on the challenge. Use your debit card for a month or a year and compare your spending year over year. So I think this is one that it's not for me and again we've seen too much. It's like if you're an ER doctor and you've seen so many people come in

with scooter and e-bike injuries you're like, my kid will never ride a scooter or e-bike. Right, right. Because I've seen too much. That's kind of how we feel about credit cards. Can kids ride them without getting injured? Absolutely.

They can wear a helmet, be safe, not go 28 miles an hour on a sidewalk. Do they always do that? No. Are we $1.2 trillion in credit card debt? Yes. Take that. Take that.

That was a pretty good analogy. I'm going to pat myself. Way to bring it in a real world. Real world example, George. Because these kids in my neighborhood. I was not to say, tell us your freaking motorbikes. Your geo. This is my old man on the lawn.

I know. Papa Gio. I so badly want to set up like a spike trap and have one of these kids flip over. George. Because they're going to run over my daughter. We're trying to just walk on the, Like normal human beings. It is true.

But it's like a... Johnny Motorcross. It's like it's the talk of every suburban neighborhood and area. We have signs now in like our parks that are like no, nothing exceeding over 12 miles per hour. You know, it's all this stuff trying to get motor type vehicles off the road. My take, it should be illegal unless you have an actual driver's license. I do, I do too.

And even then they have to be limited. So Winston, can I tell you? This is like Winston's... He has like, he's just so funny to me. So he bought an e-bike. For himself? Yes. As a grown adult?

Yes. Probably like three years ago. Okay. It's pretty cool. It's got like a little thing. It had pedals. Okay. Does it look like a bike or does it look like a motocross kind of bike?

Get ready. It looks like a bike. Well, recently he's decided, I kind of like want like something a little bigger and just like I don't want a motorcycle. Because I don't think I'd let him get a motorcycle. of them. But something that's kind of like the in-between. So he went and got a, it is, it, it's what the,

he said, the guy selling it was like, this is what the like 15-year-olds, but now, legally, you have to, I think, have a license, or you should have a license to operate it. It is like a motorcycle, George. Yes. Yes.

That's what I'm saying. That's what the kids are driving around my neighborhood. Okay, but they look like, they're almost like dirt bikes. Yes. Do you know exactly what I'm talking about? I call them crotch rockets. Yes.

You call them what you want. No, crotch rockets can, go on the interstate. These can't. Sure. But they're close enough that if that was on the interstate, it wouldn't shock me. Okay, a little bit. Yes. Anyways, wild. And now he's driving that around town? He just, he likes toys. I don't know. Where does he drive it? Just around your neighborhood? Neighborhood, and we have friends. All of our neighborhoods connect, like, where we live. Oh, yeah. And so he can, like, drive to, like, my sister's house, Bill and Denise's, which we could take the golf cart, but. But he's by himself. He's not like taking it. He's not like taking it.

the kids. No, no, no. Okay. So it's just his time to get out, decompressed, think about life. I guess so. Yeah, it made me laugh. And be 15 again. Maybe that might be it too. I respect that. Yeah, but... That's a good use case. I don't know how I got off on that, but all that to say. It was from my amazing credit card analogy.

That was. Oh, man. All right. Where are we, George? I still like such an old man in this episode. You are an old man. We're at pre-nups. Your favorite topic. Prenups are unnecessary. If you're married, you're signing up to share finances for life. Ooh, rate your agreement. One to ten. Six and a half.

All right. I'll go seven. I'll one up you. I'll go. A little bit. A little bit more. And here's the caveat. Preempts are unnecessary for most people.

Yes. That's where I would say the gap is. That's right. Most people that think they need a preempt don't. Yes. Because if you don't have a ton of money, not a lot of assets. And something happens, you're probably going to end up splitting it 50-50. Now, if you come in with a lot of assets, then yeah, then that makes sense, especially if there's like a difference.

You want to walk away with what you brought into the marriage. Like, that totally makes sense. Or if there's a business. Yeah, the business stuff, yes. Awkward, complicated family stuff for family business. Yep, yep. Second marriages. There's a lot there, yes, for sure.

And we got a call from a woman. I don't remember if you were on with me or not. It may have been Jade. And she called in, you guys, and she married a really wealthy guy. she signed a pre-nup that basically she walked away and she was home with the kids

and she, they divorced and she gets nothing. Like, nothing. He'll pay child support and like, you know, a couple of things, but like it was not, and so I was like,

man, so even in that case, I think, and again, I'm not an attorney and I know a lot of those are the state, so things, I'm probably speaking out out of my legal term.

Thank you for that caveat. But even if you're in a situation like that, it's like at least the money you make during the marriage because she brought so much value

during that, right? Like, it's one thing of like what I came in with, but like during, I don't know, there's ways to structure it. And so if there is that discrepancy, like take the time to structure it well. And I think it's Dr. John Deloney that says, you're your nicest before the marriage. Like, do you know what I mean? It's, um, so. That is a tough one.

But I do think there's a lot of caveats. And I would definitely be understanding if, if both parties were in agreement and the spirit of it was right. And it wasn't this like, well, I want to keep what's mine and you don't get to participate in my world. That feels, If that starts off the marriage, red flag to me. That should be a big red flag. Yes. But I understand if you're coming in with, you know, $5 million and the other person has nothing. Yes.

And you have, you know, legitimate fears. Yep. But, you know, and the other thing I hear about this from, you know, divorce lawyer, you're like, well, everyone's got a pre-up. The government's got one built in for you. If you don't have one, the government decides. But in most states, the laws are pretty fair in terms of like what would happen in case of divorce. hey, community property, whatever you guys built together is going to be split half and half,

which makes sense. It's fair. But I don't like it being lopsided where, especially when a female stays at home. I know. We get those calls where the stay-at-home mom is legitimately worried, going to a divorce, how is she going to make it? She hasn't had a job in 20 years. And there's a pre-up where the guy gets it all. Yes. That feels gross to me. All right. Next, if you have an unpaid home mortgage, you should not have a rental or investment property, to. Ooh. Okay, so let me phrase this differently.

If your primary home is not paid off, you should not be going out and getting rental properties on top of that. I'm a nine and a half on this one. I was a nine. The only caveat, and I think I was up with Dave on the show when we were talking,

someone had an investment property and I can't remember the numbers, I can't remember the scenario. It was like one of the only times that Dave was like, well, I just keep it, and put it here in the debt snowball, or maybe pay off your primary and then pay,

or it was something finagle. There's been times where we say pay off the investment property first. Because there's the tax implication, there was all the stuff, and he was going to go back in to get real estate and where the, I don't know, it was like this whole thing. And actually, I think I was shocked on that one.

I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe Dave told him to keep it. So every now and then, but most of the time, most of the time, you need to sell it, or don't get into it in the first place. We'd never tell you to go buy one by any means until you are completely debt-free.

But if you have one, most of the time you're not even breaking even on what you're getting for the rents and the maintenance and everything. They're usually a hassle. They usually have a lot of money tied up in it and it's not making that much because there's a giant mortgage attached to it

and it's stressing them out and they have consumer debt. So that's where I go, if you have three properties and you don't like one and it can clear your debt if you sell it, sell it and be done. All day.

And some people hang on to it because there's like the sunk cost fallacy or it's like sentimental for some reason. I'm like, well, it cash flows. I'm like, barely, you're paying 22% APR on this card over here, 30 grand. Totally.

So if you have a bunch of consumer debt, I'm almost always going to tell you to sell the investment property and just start with the clean slate. Yes, yeah. Well, one thing I know that's not up for debate, though, George. We've been debating so this is delete me. No debates there.

I will not argue. I know. To have a company come in and actually wipe off most of your information off data broker sites as they go in, that's where they're looking because that is where so much of the fishing and scams, spams, all of that is from is everything.

So getting Delete Me on your side is so important. And people don't realize it's an issue. They're kind of problem unaware until something happens. And so what Delete Me does, they go in, remove it, they send you the report, and you go, oh my gosh, I had no idea after they scanned hundreds of these sites that I was on 17 of them with all these different pieces of information, which then puts you at risk of spam, scam, fraud, fishing, all the stuff that keeps us up at night. Yep.

So make sure to get Delete Me because it is worth it. You can actually get 20% off your annual plan at join deleteme.com slash smart money. You know what? We will leave a link down below. So that's an easy, easy access point for you. All right. Back to our Ramsey takes that we may or may not disagree with. If you're working the Ramsey plan, you don't have a car payment, period.

Hmm So I guess this is insinuating that We're going to tell you Sell the car, sell the car, sell the car Yes I'm going to go I may go straight 5 out of 5. I'm trying to think through all the calls

that we say that you're okay to pay it off We're out of 5 now? Maybe out of 5. I thought we were out of 10 No, I'm going to I'm going to 5. I'm splitting down the middle. You said 5 out of 5 which confused me Oh, I'm so sorry. We're just all of a sudden changing

In the writing system? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So five out of ten. Five out of ten. So you're middle of the road. I'm going middle of the road. Okay.

Because I feel like half the time it's too much car. And then half the time they can pay it off in less than 18 months, which is kind of our baseline. Or that it's no more than half of your annual take home pay with all everything you own that has motors and wheels. So I feel like we're about half and half. Wow. Okay. I keep bringing up the room's show. I'm sorry.

It's okay. It's in the head, y'all. Maybe because it's this episode. But just today, like talking to my time. mom, her daycare, what her daycare costs. She was asking to lower the daycare costs by going to like a cheaper daycare. She felt okay about it. I was like, don't put your kid in something. You don't like, because that's not worth it. But cheaper, but the only debt she had was a $22,000 car. So part of me is like, keep your kid in the good daycare and sell the car. Like you're doing all,

you're making all these life changes. Yeah, well, I prioritize the car over. To keep the, you know what I mean? So that's the thing about the car is like we, you keep it. And it's fine. Again, if you can pay it off in 18 months. but also the extra work you're doing, if you have side hustles, the weekends you're working, the lifestyle you're cutting. Do you don't know what I mean? All the things you're missing from day to day life

because you weren't willing to sell the car. I get if you got like, you know, eight, 10 grand left to like pay off. Like that, there's a part of me that makes sense. But if you're bumping that high 20, 30,000, 40,000, we've seen it all. Yes, but to like to stay in that,

to just work extra to pay off. You know what I'm saying? Like to pay it? I don't know. But usually, like you said, if the car is a big chunk of their debt and it's a lot of their income and they can free up a big payment and go get a smaller, whatever, downsizing car for a period of time for six months to get out of debt faster, I'm going to do that 100% of the time. All day. All right. Next, George, you should have kids whenever you want.

Your financial situation shouldn't influence your family planning. Ten you agree, one you disagree. George and I have different to accept this probably a little bit. Oh, boy. Okay, okay. I'm like a three and a half on this one. Okay. I mostly disagree. But here's what I will say I disagree with. I'm going six.

Six is, that's healthy. I don't think that you should wait until you're debt free to have kids. But I do think there are situations where you are in a bad place in life. And financial is just part of that. And I'm like, hey, you might want to wait until you have a little bit of footing. It's kind of like a put your own mask on first. Like if you are unwell and you're bringing a kid. kid into the world or a third or fourth kid, which is a lot of times what we see.

Yes. He makes 40 grand a year, wife stays at home with the three kids, they got one on the way, they're in crippling consumer debt. You know what I mean? They got a bunch of toys and I'm like, let's just pause and just get a life situated a little bit. But I don't like this idea that, well, I want to wait until we're older and more financially established and out of debt.

I'm going, no, have kids because you don't know what the future holds. You don't know how easy will be to have children. It could take a long time. So if you want kids, you will figure it out financially. That's what I truly feel. Have kids whenever, you will figure it out. But is there a more optimal time where it's going to be less stressful and more financially feasible?

Absolutely. Sure. Yeah, I agree with most of that. I just know, and again, it's when you get, I mean, there's so many factors in here. But when you are in your, you know, mid-20s, and if you have kids early, you're not at the peak of your career. And you probably are like, you know, money is tight.

Like daycare is a lot. Yeah, daycare, yeah, I mean, all of it. But I feel like those are the stories like that is life. Like there's a little bit of like you kind of push through the hard times and you come out the other side. You know what I mean? I don't know. I just feel like we can be overly cautious and feel like we're going to be quote unquote ready. Yes.

I think it's one of those things you're just never. You're never really ready. Ready. Like if you're going to do it, do it. Yeah. But if you, I mean, if you're naturally like, hey, we're going to be debt free by the time we start a family, it's going to be easier to have no debt, an emergency fund, be building wealth for the future. Yeah, from the financial perspective.

Investing for their, you know, future and education when they're young. Like, all of that's going to help you and them, but don't let it stop you. Yes. Love it. We'll just meet in the middle, George. We got there. We'll meet in the middle. Kids.

Okay, next is, when paying off debt, your emergency fund should never exceed $1,000. Ooh. This is one of the most hotly debated babysaps. People go, you want me to deplete? my savings down to a thousand to use it towards debt payoff? And we're like, yeah. And some people call in and they already have some money in savings. And they're like, I don't want to get rid of my five grand that I have. Right. And there's situations where I understand. So I'm going to go five on this one. A middle of the road depending on your situation. Yes. There's like a single mom whose kid has

special needs or health concerns. And I'm like, great, have a little bit of buffer. That's okay. Yes. But there's some people who are like, could pay off the debt today, but they don't want to let go of the savings. Right. Yeah, the volatility of the situation is important to note. Right. But I would say for most people, yeah, get it down to that thousand and do it. And I would say, too, if you're expecting, we're talking about babies, we do have a time, the stork mode, that if you are paying off debt, you pause and save up money.

If you're pregnant, just stack up cash. Yep. And storm mode. If there's a job loss, divorce, whatever it is. Yeah, there's something happening. There would be a time, yep, to pause that and to have a higher emergency fund. So that's a good one. I feel like we were a little more nuanced on that.

Yeah. But I do think it lights a fire under you in a good way to have a thousand bucks and go, I got to get out of debt fast. Yes, but I think I'd be higher than a five. You're more like a seven, eight? I'd go seven. Seven. I just think of that single mom, Rachel.

Sue me. So nice. I think of the single mom who. All right. Next. Mutual funds are the only long-term investment strategy we stand by. I'm going to go two. We like them.

Yeah. It's not the only, though. There's a lot of other things. Index funds. We talk about real estate. That's where I think was missing from this, is just real estate as an investment is strong in there. And I do think people think mutual funds, and they only think actively manage mutual funds. And there's a time and place that we recommend index funds.

non-retirement accounts, great place to have some index funds. Some bridge account, yep. Not mad at that. But, you know, there's also things like high-ield savings accounts for short-term goals, not a good long-term investing strategy. So there's other pieces to the puzzle here. But I do think mutual funds overall, that's all you need. If you said, hey, what is the only thing you need to build wealth?

I'd say mutual funds will do the trick. Yep. That I would stand by. That would take it up to a nine for me. Oh, we're on the opposite end of the spectrum. Well, it's like the sentence is like trick question. You know what I know. You kind of got to see the nuance of the words.

They're phrased in a way. You were an English major, you know. Thank you for one year before I dropped out of school to work at the Apple store. And drive Uber. All right. Well, one place that you can open up a high-yield savings account since we were just talking about is Fairwin's Credit Union. And so they are an amazing, steady financial partner that could be in your corner. You know, having a bank that shares your values is very rare, George.

And it's hard to find. Very rare, yes. But we love fair ones. And they actually have a great bundle, the smart bundle. So you get a no monthly fee checking account, up to 10 high-yield savings accounts. And the Ramsey debit card. And we found it. I got the new one.

So we had the original Ramsey theme one that says, debt is normal, be weird. Now there's a new one. Check this out. Oh, I love it. I'll hold it up to my camera here. It's the live like no one else debit card. We love it. Which is fun.

So once you're out of debt and you want to make a different statement, It's a real conversation starter at the old Trader Joe's, which they'll start a conversation about anything. Yeah, they're chatty. They're chatty over there. They're forced to ask you about your weekend plans. So funny. But yeah, no, they, um, Fairwinds is amazing.

So if you want to check out that spark by Dole, make sure to go to fairwins.org slash Ramsey. And make sure to check out, yeah, the new Live like no one else debit card because it's beautiful and could be in your wallet. Cost you nothing but a couple of minutes to get all that started. Oh, man, George. What an episode. You know, I love a, I love the gray.

You do. You are very, out of all the sort of personalities that we have here, you're the most nuanced and understanding. Yeah, I like the gray. And you like to, you like to discuss. You like the drama of it. You like the discussion. You like the nuance. There's some dogma in life I really love.

Like, give me some hard stances on some things. That's one reason, like, even the baby steps. I'm like, just go back to the plate. Like, it's all right there. Like, just do it. There are some things that it's, it works. It's great. It works.

It's not broken. Don't fix it. Yeah. But man, yeah, but there are time and places and all of it. But it is funny when we get calls and people are like, I have a very unique situation. We're like, we promise we'd probably heard it before. Am I the exception? Yeah, you're not as unique as you probably think you are.

So to have some guidelines in life that you stick by, I think is important. It kind of keeps you on the rails on any part of life. But there's nuances. It's like, you know, when you parent your kids, you're going to parent them differently because of their personalities. Like one doesn't like this. One doesn't care about that one. One, you know, X, Y, and Z, like, you can just tell they are different.

And so there are situations you want to look at, and I think are, I think it's important. Yeah. And one thing I will say is the reason we are so consistent on the show is because if I tell someone one thing, everyone listening is going to go, oh, well, that's me too. So I'm also the exception. For sure. So we do have to be a little bit more cautious about what we say on the air because everyone assumes that it applies to them too. Yes. So we usually err on the conservative side without as much nuance because we don't want someone

to take that as gospel and go do it and then go, well, Rachel said it to one person, so I thought I could do it too. No, that was a very different situation. That's right. It doesn't apply there. But I do think the consistent principles is what makes Ramsey Ramsey. Like we are unwavering in that we're not going to do debt. Yes.

Be building wealth for the future. Here's the way to do it. Live on less than you make. You don't need to worry about all these trends and newfangled ways. Yes. Stop with a comparison. Like, yeah, I mean, there's, yeah, those consistent things. Keeps it simple.

In a world full of decision fatigue. Well, and George, if we were to toot our own horns over here, and it works. And it works. You know what I mean? Like the amount of success stories that we've heard from people over and over from the financial side and even just the, like, emotional, like, oh my God, thank God I took control of my mind. I don't know. If it wasn't working, that'd be one thing, but. And what's cool is we actually built a free AI tool called Ask Ramsey.

Yes. That will help guide you through all this nuance and help you figure out if it's, Is my situation different? It's based on all the proven principles or articles, transcripts from the show. So if you want to check it out, you can do that at ramsysolutions.com or click the link in the show notes. And you can ask your very specific personal questions and get a very personal answer that is Ramsey approved versus Google, which God knows what's going to show up there. Who knows what happens there? Yeah.

All right. Before we spill the tea on our guilty is charged segment, let's share the drink details, George, and reveal the rating. Let's. It's the old blackberry gin sour. Can you guess what's in it so far? Blackberry. Gin? Blackberry, sour.

So it's got gin, lemon juice, and a blackberry simple syrup, and some egg white, which helps the phone. It's really good. Don't be weird about it. People who judge the egg white, you just have no class. Egg white is paramount to getting the foam. If you are vegan, there are alternatives that can create such foam. For our vegan friends.

Google it. I'm not your mom, but you can figure that out on your own. And you know, you can make it a mock touch. I bet you put sparkling water in. Oh, that's a vegan. That's true. Replace the gin with whatever you want. Because the lemon juice and blackberry syrup, that's what you need in any cocktail.

This is just TMI. You want an acid. You want something that has that acidity to punch through, and you want something a little sweet to balance out the acid and the alcohol. So that's what you really need to make any good cocktail. And then you have the texture, where the egg white comes in. So it comes out to $2.91. I think this is a worthy cocktail to make it home. I'm going 9 out of 10 on this one.

I'll go 9 out of 10. I like, I think it's a very balanced drink If I ordered this at a restaurant I'd be very pleased Yes, it would be delicious So get the recipe in the show notes Give it a try this weekend If you're of age, if you're not

Tell your mom to make you a mocktail She'll do it All right, now it's time for Guilty as charged And this is where we ask each other A New Guilty's Charge question every week And if we're guilty We take a sip

All right George Have you ever gotten combative In public over your stance on money Oh boy Boy, combative feels like we got into a real, like, heated argument. A good story if you did. Yeah. There's a couple of times.

So I do these man on the street interviews from my YouTube channel. And eventually you run into someone who wants to have a little, you know, spat. Little banser. And so I ran into a guy and he ended up telling me he was telling me how great car leases are. Because he had a car lease and I was asking him. He goes, well, I'm a finance manager at a dealership. And the next 12 minutes was spent arguing with this guy. Oh, no.

It's a very fun, like, entertaining. Like, we're both talking to the camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's trying to convince me that he kept saying the everyday consumer, well, they can't afford a car, and how much are you spending on your paid off car just to maintain it? Hey, what if you had a lease? My lease is $502. And by the end of it, I think the audience kind of saw through his be esery.

Felt it. Felt it. Fiesery. Yeah, be esi. But it was pretty publicly combative. Yeah, that's a good one. I think people started, like, watching. Like, it was during CMA Fest and people were gathered.

We were more entertaining than some of the country ads out there. What can I say? So that was the last time I remember it happening. It's happened like during a credit card pitch and I have to shut it down with the lady at Costco or something. Yeah. It's been a while. I try to avoid those situations. I don't even, I don't like to talk about money unless you want my opinion.

100%. I don't do it unsolicited. I think I'm, I might be innocent on this one. You've never. Yeah, I can't imagine you getting publicly combative. I think I'm just like, no. No, thank you. If they get offered something.

Do they ever recognize you on a flight? Maybe like a time share person at a, like a hotel and they like keep asking. And you're like, no, I don't need one. I don't want one. Like, no, leave me alone. But yeah, I don't remember like a crazy time. That would be a fun thing if we challenge each other. Like, you have to get in one public fight about money in the next 12 days.

I would love to see you try. Tell that story. I would do one every single day, like just for fun. Just. Yeah. I'd go to the Best Buy employee and be like, hey, pitch me. on the credit card. Let's fight. This poor 16 year old's like, oh, my manager just said I have to do this. I don't even know what it is. Did you come in? George feels so so high and mighty.

You read the fine friends yourself, bud? What's the APR on that? Let me quiz you real quick. That actually would be a fun show. That would be fun. If I could do that with a crushing. If you're on an airline and they always do their credit cards. Yeah, I was on a Delta flight and the lady recognized me as she was about to do her credit card pitch and she was like, close your ears. I want to thank you. She did. Oh my gosh. That's funny. So that was a non-combative. That's funny. That's funny. Oh, I love it.

That was a good one, though. That was a good one. I may not, George. You've got to get in more fights. I might claim innocence. It's fun. Because I can't public, I can't physically fight anyone except maybe a toddler.

With your mind. Yeah. With my mind. Don't come at me, bro. You're there. You're there. So good. Well, if you have a guilty charge question,

make sure to DM us at Rachel Cruz and at George Camel. We get them. We love them. Screenshot them and send them to our producer, Jenna. That's what we do. We're so good at it.

Now, if you loved this episode, you're going to love our episode explaining the lore behind Ramsey Slang. We will link it for you so you can check it out and make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss an all new episode of Smart Money Happy Hour.