Snapped: Women Who Murder - BONUS: The Black Widow's Web – Joanne Dennehy (Living With A Serial Killer)

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

We are bringing you a special bonus episode featuring a case from Oxygen's hit series, “Living With A Serial Killer.”  Spree killer Joanne Dennehy stabbed three men to death in 2013. Now, for the first time, Dennehy’s daughter Shianne shares how she has struggled to come to terms with the realities of being the child of Britain’s most dangerous woman. Season 1, Episode 1 Originally aired: April 14, 2021 Watch full episodes of Living With A Serial Killer live or OnDemand for FREE on the Oxygen app: https://oxygentv.app.link/hCZygmrckqbSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. Our newest series looks at the story of OxyContin, a popular painkiller that helps spur an epidemic of addiction and drug abuse, in which prompted a broad campaign to hold the pharmaceutical industry accountable. Listen to American Scandal on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi Snap listeners. We're bringing you a special bonus episode today from Oxygen's hit series, Living with a serial killer, airing on Oxygen on Saturdays at 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific time. You can also watch full episodes live or on demand on the free Oxygen app by clicking the link in our description.

Enjoy! Serial killers in the United States have long dominated the headlines, but these diabolical murderers aren't unique to America. In England, serial killers have also horrified a nation. And one of the UK's most notorious murderers is Joanne Denny. This is Joanne Denny, the multiple killer. She took the lives of three men without a second thought. Joanne Denny decided to admit murdering these three men. And one of the country's most notorious serial killers.

most notorious serial killers. Over 10 days in 2013, Joanne Denny had killed three men and left two others for dead. But to some, this cold-blooded killer was a wife, a daughter, and a mother. So what is it like to discover you've shared your life, your home, and even your DNA, with one of the world's most deadly killers. I'm Beth Carous, 2013 in Peterborough, England, a rural area 100 miles

north of London. Police have received reports of an abandoned vehicle on fire on a rural stretch of road. When that call comes in, we have an automobile on fire. And there's no rhyme or reason as to why it is in a particular location. So the detectives run the plates, and the registration comes back to a man out of Peter Burrell, and his name is Kevin Lee. Kevin Lee was a married father of two,

whose wife had reported him missing, along with the family's blue station wagon. On the ground, senior investigator Jeff Hill is among the first officers notified. I first became aware of Kevin Lee being missing as a consequence of a telephone call from one of my detective inspectors. There was something not quite right with this. A person was missing and their vehicle was seemingly been set on fire intentionally.

With Kevin Lee missing and his car on fire, Jeff Helen, his team asked what could have happened to this man? Then, early the next morning, 10 miles from the burnt-out car, a dog walker makes a gruesome discovery. dog walker makes a gruesome discovery. Kevin's buddy was found, face down in the ditch, and he was wearing a woman's cocktail dress. This victim has received five stab wounds to the chest, and there is the appearance that he has been sexually assaulted.

and there is the appearance that he has been sexually assaulted. Local journalist Steve Briggs attended the scene. We do maybe two or three murders a year, but happened in Peterborough. But I can't remember another case where a body had been dumped in this way. This is very unusual. with very unusual. Police have discovered Kevin Lee's body, but who is responsible for his tragic death? We learnt a lot more about Kevin Lee as the investigation progressed. Kevin had a business which was associated with the rental of properties to people who were on benefits.

There would be within that community people who did have a criminal record. So in doing the due diligence to find out who our victim is, these detectives, they find out that there is an associate of Kevin Lee's name, Gary Stretch. Gary Stretch was seven feet, three inches tall, and had a long and violent criminal history. So on the course of their investigation on Stretch, they find video from a gas station

where stretch had been inside. This video is going to put stretch in possession of Kevin Lee's car, and now he's got a female with him. Following Gary's stretch into the gas station is an unidentified woman driving a second vehicle. So now one of the challenges here is to get this unidentified female identified. Well, what do we discover?

We discover that she is also one of Kevin Lee's tenets, Joanne Denney. Denney and stretch were working as sort of painters and decorators around the houses and doing them up. We didn't know much about Denny at the time, if anything. Offers his rush to bring Gary Stretch and his female associate, Joanne Denny, in for questioning.

But neither individual can be found. Police put out what is called a bollo. Be on the lookout because this is critical. We need to find these people as soon as possible. And license recognition equipment that we have, it knocks off the license plate on stretch's car 150 miles away from the scene. By now the police were on their trial.

Using CCTV, telephone communications, tracking devices. The detectives want to forewarn the officials in Heriford, that they have a possible murder suspect in their midst. Well, by the time they contact them, we already have another victim. Durand, 3.40pm, a man in his 60s was stabbed on West Vaining Street in Heriford. The man remains in a critical but stable state. Around 3.40 pm a man in his 60s was stabbed on West Vaining Street in Heriford. The man remains in a critical but stable condition. The victim, Robin Beresa, survived five stab wounds and phone police

to report the unprovoked attack himself. It's wholly unusual for an attack on a complete stranger, randomly, in the middle of the day. It's unprecedented, particularly for a place like Heriford. What's remarkable, our victim now in Heriford, is that he's giving descriptions of who stabbed him and as the reports start to come in, detectives, officers are getting very excited that this has got to be stretch. Well, it turns out it's not stretch.

He is very specific about a female with a tattoo of a star on her face. Investigators make the connection. Robin Barraza's attacker is stretch his female associate, Joanne Denney. It was a big surprise when we learned it was Denney. It really did change, changed the entire story for us. So who was this slight five-foot woman,

viciously attacking a passerby in broad daylight? And why was she doing this? At the time of the attack, please weren't the only ones with questions about Joanne. 150 miles north, her estranged daughter, Cheyenne, was also wondering what had become a perm other. Cheyenne and her sister hadn't seen Joanne for four years after moving away with their dad. My memories from around nine to 12 were just like a normal upbringing. I had friends, going to school every day, just normal.

But I wanted to know what she'd been doing for years and why she hadn't reached out. As a kid, it's like, why... why is she not here? Why am I not good enough, kind of thing? I'd hope that she would knock on that door, but I knew I was kidding myself. At this juncture, Cheyenne has not seen her mother for four years.

She has no idea what's going on in her mother's life. And obviously, she has a lot of questions. As Cheyenne wondered what had happened to her mother, 150 miles south, police were trying to arrest Joanne Denny for a violent knife attack. In the middle of the chaos to take care of this first victim, we get a report 10 minutes afterwards that there's a second victim. The really, really short space of time, you've got two horrific attacks on two completely innocent members of the public,

randomly on the street. Amazingly start thinking, crikey, this is escalating. Multiple victims now, multiple scenes, you've got to deal with dealing with a marauding attacker. With innocent lives at stake, can please catch Joanne Denney before she hurts anyone else? And should investigators reconsider her part

in the brutal murder of her landlord, Kevin Lee? She wants to become notorious. That is satanic. That wants to become notorious. That is satanic. That is pure, pure evil. Serial killer. How many bodies are there? This is the first time I've ever seen a man like me who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who is a man who and see, we want to get her off the street before she homes anyone else as quickly as possible.

How can somebody randomly stab two innocent people, making sense of that is very very difficult? Although both stabbing victims survived, reports from the second scene suggest John Rogers' injuries were particularly grave. Witnesses in the area are seeing Joanne walk away from the second victim after 40 stab wounds. And she is now licking the knife that she used. To go and stab somebody 40 sometimes, 40 times, and then lick the blood off of the blade and walk away giggling, that is satanic.

That is pure, pure evil. I cannot even begin to explain how dangerous this woman is. But with two brutal attacks taking place within 10 minutes of each other, can police track Joanne Denahy down in time to stop any more bloodshed? You've got a couple of people here, stretch, and joy in that have been getting very good at going underground. Whatever they're doing is making it difficult for officials to find joy in. To catch a predator, you have to think like a predator, and so the hunt is on.

MUSIC Hard working detectives doing the footwork needs to be done. They find stretches of vehicle at the house of an associate while he is offloading some stuff that they stole. And they find Joanne sitting in the car by herself. When the police finally catch up with Denahe, they find her in a car. She's covered in blood. She has a bloodstained knife.

I put myself in that position, and I've been in the position of a responding officer many, many times earlier in my career. Gotcha, is the first all. Now remarkably, they walk up to Joanne. They speak with her, she gets out of the car, she's very compliant, they put her in handcuffs, and they walk her back to the van and put her in custody. And she doesn't move a finger to resist. While this is going on with Joanne, Big Boy Stretch has seen what's happened to her and being the

noble person he is, he's out of there. But officers get on him pretty quickly and he is arrested as well. Stretch and Denny are taken into custody, along with several high-value items found in their possession, Presumed stolen. Shortly after Joanne denny's arrest, her estranged family are contacted. I was at sleep over that night doing normal sleepover stuff, baking, making videos, funny ones,

you name it, we were doing it. Then my dad called me home unexpectedly. I got home and as I closed the door and turned around to me with kind of like, I got some really bad news. I was like, okay, what's wrong? What's happened? And he's turned around to me and said, I've just found out your mum's stabbed to someone.

And at that point, I just kind of lost all kind of senses and I just felt a Florence that I cried. And the first thing I said was, will I turn into her? Like, will that be me? Will I turn into her? Like, will that be me? The days after my mum was arrested, it all came crashing down. I had, obviously, there was media outlets at the front door. I had to be escorted, tuned from school.

By the police, I had to be escorted to the train station by the police, I had to be escorted to the training station by the police to get away. I was very depressed, yeah. I remember nights where I'd cry myself to sleep or I'd cry myself so hard that I just had nothing left to cry. I was scared because that's not the person that I grew up with and for her to just flip. I was like, I have lived in the same house as that woman. I have held that woman's hand. I have kissed her good night.

I wanted to know why she'd done what she'd done and what a driver to do, what she'd done, and why she hadn't thought about the ripple effect on everyone else. To be told that your mother has been arrested for attempted murder has to be one of the most shocking things you could possibly hear,

and trying to then go back to school, to friendships, to life. Is it unimaginably difficult? Because what do you talk about? How do you relate? How do you even keep your head out of what's going on at home? You can't. So disturbing, distressing, concerning. And must have raised some questions around, is there some genetic here that I'm going to be like this? Is this going to be a past on somehow to me? 150 miles south of Cheyenne in Heriford, Joanne is booked on the charge of two attempted murders. looked on the charge of two attempted murders.

Do you want to go see it then, Hank? But what about Joanne's possible role in the death of her Peterborough landlord, Kevin Lee? In investigative profiling, we look for consistencies and patterns that would suggest typologies. But these two criminal incidents are entirely different. One was premeditated murder and the other was this frenzied spontaneous attack. It's as if they're committed by two entirely different people.

Together, Cambridgeer and Harifredshire police need to uncover exactly who they have in custody. Is Denny a frenzied attacker or a calculated murderer? Now the investigation is really going to start, because now we have to find out who in the heck is Joanne Denny. The Detectives on Kevin Lee's murder case are preparing to travel 150 miles to interview their suspects, Joanne Dahee and Gary Stretch. But as Joanne Danahee is booked into custody, the situation quickly changes. I love things. Yeah, I love everything. I love things. I love things. I love things. I love things.

I love things. Yeah, I love things. I love things. I love things. I love things. I love things. I love things. I love things.

I love things. Joanne's responses make police realize that she has a potential danger to herself or others. In England, because she has talked about having these particular ailments, symptoms, she must be assessed. UK law requires anyone in custody presenting mental health concerns to be evaluated right away, ahead of any police interrogation. And when Joanne Dennyi is assessed, the results are revealing. She is diagnosed with a condition called

parafilia sadomasochism. A paranoid sadomasochist suffers from a parafilia or a sexual disorder in which they get unusual abnormal sexual arousal, in this particular case, from committing pain or harmful actions against another person, that's the sadism or pain against themselves, that's the masochism. This is a very dangerous combination.

Personally looking at Denner Hay, she clearly had a developing personality disorder, what we call borderline personality, which is swinging moods, vacuous sense of self, often self-harming and clamoring for attention. Would you be curious if you got that tempted moment? No, I'm just lying. So, peace.

After this diagnosis, Joanna's removed from police custody I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please. After this diagnosis, Joanna's removed from police custody and committed to a mental hospital for 10 days. There, doctors can assess her and determine whether or not she understands the crimes of which she's accused and can participate in the criminal justice process. Not being able to interview Joanne for ten days while she was sectioned and being assessed was slightly frustrating. You got the sense that there was a manipulation of the system. Denahe, if she was so minded, could have decided to fabricate a story, to give a count for our actions,

and some of the evidence that she would have known that we had have had. But although being unable to interview Joanne for 10 days was frustrating, detectives used this time to find out more about Denny's connection to Kevin Lee. They know he was her landlord, but could there have been more to their relationship?

So as the detectives start to dig into who is Joanne Denny. They really start to dig into it. And they find out they talk to Kevin Lee's wife. She brings up the fact that she believes that Kevin and Joanne had a thing going on. So now she's carrying on an affair with a married man and we know how Kevin ends up. It's certainly appears that violence and kink was part of the sexual connection between Kevin Lee and Joanne Dannahie. So, Kevin Lee, on the day he was killed, he told a friend he was going to go into house for sex.

He said he was going to be dressed up and raped when he got to the house. He was, after all, found in that ditch, wearing a woman's cocktail dress, and he had been positioned face down. With the dress pulled up over his waist, his buttocks in the air, and a very humiliating pose. But just as Kevin Lee's murder starts to make some sense, this investigation takes a massive turn. So on the middle of everything going on, at Kevin Lee's scene, at the scenes in Heriford,

two more bodies pop up. In a further development, the bodies of two men were discovered at 40 die yesterday morning. There will be extra police officers out and patrol in the areas where the bodies were discovered. And we have a last team of detectives working on the investigations until three deaths. So now the question becomes, is Joanne

Dana here responsible for these two? And we have somebody else out here that's gone off their rocker. She is the master puppeteer. Joanne invites him to the Black Widow's web. What she's got her clothes into, you struggle to get out. The police in Cambridge received a devastating call. On the Wednesday morning, one of the detectives in the office said there was a telephone call needed to take. So I went across to the phone,

spoke to somebody in the control room, who told me that two further bodies had been located in a ditch. So these two new bodies that have popped up, a farmer finds them, they there together, they're stabbed. The bodies are found just five miles from where Denny-Hee's landlord, Kevin Lee, was discovered. It was an easy assumption to make that given the fact

that three bodies were found within a very short distance of each other, or within dikes, within a short space of time, that they are likely to be connected. But I was also very conscious not to make assumptions that they were. But with Suspect Joanne, Dana, here, and Gary stretch in custody on the other side of the country, how could they be responsible? And of stretch and denny he didn't kill these men, who did? Despite investigators proceeding with caution, news of the discovery soon spread. At about half past three,

we had it confirmed that there were two more bodies out at Thornie Dyke. We go out there, we see the scene, we speak as many people in the area as possible, and we're trying to find out what the similarities are to the Kevin Lee case. In those circumstances we had been under immense pressure by the media. That would have been very difficult to investigate. With the press reporting Kevin Lee's killer has struck again, can investigators prove they have the right suspects in custody?

At that early stage, we didn't have any identification of these individuals. We didn't know who they were, how they'd been murdered, and why they'd ended up in the ditch. I went out to the scene with another one of my senior detectives saw that in the ditch there were two bodies, they were partially submerged. We could see that they looked to have been there for a little while. The detectives take a portable fingerprint scanner

to the scene to scan and hopefully get these people identified. The first body was identified as Lucas Slabozuski. Lucas Slabozuski was a 31-year-old Polish national who moved to Peterborough in 2005 to work as a delivery driver. I don't think Lucas was reported missing to quite late on. I think it's because he's part of the Eastern European communities traveled here. I don't know how many people he knew

actually in the Peterborough area. Here we have a young, attractive man. Nuly arrived in town. He doesn't know anyone. He's a stranger in a strange land. Initially, they don't find any particular connection between he and Joanne. But then they come up with a text that, from him,

that refers to a beautiful girl. He phone or text is family. I've met this beautiful girl. I'm meeting her tonight or tomorrow. I'm happy she's beautiful. Could Joanne Dennyhy be the beautiful girl and Lucas's text? Could they have been in a relationship just as Joanne was with Cabin Lay?

Could seduction be part of this suspected serial killer's M.O.? As a child, Joanne's daughter Cheyenne does recall her mother seeking male attention. daughter Cheyenne does recall her mother seeking male attention. I remember as a child, she would walk down the street and she were like, clothing that was revealing. You could be, again, walking down the street and my mum would be flirting with her men right in front of my dad. As I started growing up, we would go out for walks, and I thought, nothing of it.

Oh, walk with my mom. Have fun. But I started turning into... using me as an excuse to go to other man's houses and sleep with them. While I was in another room and played with their children. Like, the other friends would have birthdays, but it was getting to a point where I'd never get invited.

And even if I was friends with them, because they'd be too scared, because of my mum. So I was missed out. Or she'd sleep with us. It's really tricky when young children start to see worrying, concerning behaviour in a parent. However much she might have understood, things were going wrong, and Mum was getting less well or becoming more unpredictable.

She wouldn't have had an adult understanding of that. She knew what she was doing. She was using her wild to get what she wanted from people. And she'd, I don't know, the way she'd present herself to the people. They'd, like, fall in love with her and do whatever she wanted. And it's like, how and why? You know what I mean? And it's the same with just everyone around her.

She's like, once she's got her claws into you, you struggle to get out. Detectives suspect Joanne may have lured The story of the first time in the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the

history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the

history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the history of the There's a lot of implication here. We already know that Joanne Denny is in a relationship with her landlord, Kevin Lee.

Everywhere she goes, she leads with her sexuality. In short, she's just a seductress. With no conclusive connection between Denny and Lucas, will details of the second victim in the ditch prove Joanne Denny's involvement and confirm Joanne Denny is the rarest of criminals, a female serial killer. You've gots like a Bonnie and Clyde escapade.

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Right now, new subscribers can enjoy two months free of Wondery Plus. Visit Wondery.com or download the Wondery app to get started. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode.

We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. We're going to be in the next episode. was found murdered five days earlier. So we've got some strong circumstantial stuff. But, you know, at this point in the investigation, there is no direct evidence. Without a direct connection, it's still possible another killer could be on the loose.

But at this stage, police have yet to identify the ditches' second body. Could he provide the missing link to Joanne Denny? So again, we use the portable fingerprint scanner to get Luke as identified. And now we also are able to use that equipment to get John Chapman identified. John Chapman, he was ex-Navy. He had been married, his wife had died.

He was on Skid Row. He'd had been married, his wife had died. He was on Skid Row. He was becoming reliant on Drink. His only hobby was carp fishing. I interviewed the local shopkeepers and neighbors, and they thought he was a lovely, harmless guy. However, he lived in a house that was owned by Kevin Lee. The second identified victim now, John Chapman, is also one of Kevin's tenants.

And so it's not a far stretch, and it's not too difficult to connect all of these dots. Police are now convinced Joanne Denny is responsible for all three of these murders, but they need proof. When and where did these murders occur? And how did Dennyhy's proposed triple killing spray play out? We started to put the pieces together, particularly around the last sightings of individuals. And we were able to establish that those two victims were murdered way before Kevin Lee was murdered. So as a result of all the forensic evidence gathered at the scene

at Luke as his murder scene, the authorities were able to determine that Luke as was the first victim of Joanne Denny. The interesting thing about Luke as his murder, it's clear that he is killed in one place, and the body's dumped in another place. Forensic suggests Luke as's body has been moved. But if he hadn't been in the ditch for two weeks, where exactly had Loucaz been?

Fortunately for investigators, Dennyi makes a classic mistake. She is so proud of her crime, she wants to gloat about it. As the detectives begin to investigate Lucas's murder, they come up with this witness that can tell them what happened. The anonymous witness explains Joanne told her everything that happened on the night of Lucas's murder, and paints a terrifying picture for police.

If they meet at a mall, and then Joanne invites him to the black widow's wedding. And then he lured him to a house, which was rented by Kevin Lee. He went in in the evening. In a kitchen area, she pulled out a small lot of life, stabbed him through the heart. Again, again. She got his body with stretch, who was waiting in another room in case something went wrong.

And they took this heavily built Polish man, and they put him in a wheelie bin in the backyard. Four, about four or five days. She shows the body and the trash bin to a local teenage girl. This is someone who has absolutely no sense of guilt or remorse. She's actually bragging about her crime. She wanted to see the reaction on that teen's face

to know what she had accomplished. John Chapman was last seen alive nine days after Luchon's death, but at 59, he was significantly older than 30-year-old Joanne. Had Denny also seduced him? The murder of John Chapman is decidedly different. He's an older man, an alcoholic,

completely vulnerable, harmless, stabbed to death in his bed while he's sleeping. In kidding, Lucas Slapejowski, Joandana, he had essentially just taken the lid off, and she had discovered that inside the jar is somebody who is capable of murder and who quite enjoys it. So her second victim is the Chapman. He's somebody who is for her quite an easy kill. He's somebody who is easy to dispatch and get rid of.

Neighbors had complained about lights and Lee wanted Chapman out. But he wouldn't go through this court process. He would send round his enforcers, dinner, he, and stretch. She'd actually been placed in this accommodation to intimidate him, to frighten him. While there's no relationship necessarily with John, other than fact he's a tenant in the same spot, this is all starting to build in her.

The crime scene of Chapman is like something out of horror movie. You cannot imagine what that room was like. She stabbed Lucas five times, and she stabbed John Chapman ten times. It is interesting to watch the pattern of behavior, the pattern of the attacks. Joanne's method is remaining the same, but her technique is changing and it's evolving. With Lucas killed on March 19th, John last seen on March 28th, and Kevin Lee found two days later.

Did Kevin Lee's death make sense as the culminating act in this 10-day timeline of escalating violence? When we look at Danahee's murder of Kevin Lee, I think she would consider it to be the jewel in the crown. She has gone from somebody who is killed for the thrill, and then killed for the experience to someone who is engaging in hedonistic lust killing. We are now seeing this sexual component of this thing

starting to escalate as well because of the condition that we find Kevin's body in. So this is really an interesting case of watching a person just fall into the black pit of evil. But if Joanne Denny, he murdered the last of her three Peterborough victims on March 29th, and was arrested four days later, 150 miles away, what crimes could she have committed during the four days she was unaccounted for? Can police really be sure there aren't other victims? You know, when you have that number of bodies, the first things that start going through your mind are serial killer. How many bodies are there?

We've got this four-day gap. Who knows where we have another body that pops up? How many bodies are there? We've got this four-day gap. Who knows where we have another body that pops up. Uh, where we have another body that pops up. Joanne Denny, he has now been connected to three murders in Peterborough and two stabbings in Heriford, but police can't be certain there aren't victims still to be found. Now that we are finding bodies popping up, the question becomes how many bodies are out there that we don't know about.

Could stretch in Denny he have harmed anyone else in the four days between Kevin Lee's murder and their arrest? As is common when we have something like this going on, these little crimes pres that involve murders, there are other crimes being committed. So there's a burglary that they commit, and Joanne is found with a camera stolen out of that burglary.

We've got an actual camera where Joanne has been documenting in a pictorial the activities that her and stretch have been involved in, this is awesome. This is a gold mine of information. This is absolutely critical to our inquiry. You've got it stolen in a burglary in Norfolk. And then you've got, like a Bonnie and Clyde escapades, recorded on this camera of their journey.

like a Bonnie and Clyde escapades recorded on this camera of their journey. The camera's 29 remarkable images map out a 200-mile journey showing stretch and denny on the run. These photos are as if they're on a tour to the Grand Canyon or something. They're posing with silly smiles. And it shows a complete disregard to the reality of what they've done. But moreover, they're loving and basking in the attention. Reflecting on the images or the online cameras,

almost as if she wanted to capture that journey for posterity, knowing what she'd done, knowing that she probably would be captured at some stage. There was a record of it to be used, and she controlled that. The camera's images led police to various associates who could account for Denny Han's stretch during their four days on the run. With a clear understanding of stretch and Denny Han's every move,

police could now be confident no further murders had been committed. Because of the information that the detectives were able to get from those pictures off of that camera, they were able to determine that there were no other victims in Joanne's crime spree and murder spree. The associates that stretch and denny he met while on the run also described Joanne's shocking reaction to news of her own manhunt. We heard that when a story was on the news, her name was mentioned, her face was shown.

She celebrated and was jumping up and down on seeing that. So I think she wanted to be connected to these crimes. She has such a kind of grandiose sense of herself at this point in time. She's really loving the fact that the eyes of the world are upon her. time. She's really loving the fact that the eyes of the world are upon her. But whereas Joanne was seen to revel in her notoriety, news coverage only served to increase her daughter Cheyenne's pain. I was 13 at the time and obviously it's a very big thing and my dad was trying to protect

me from it but you can't protect me from something that big when other people are going to find out it's in the news, it's in the papers. I was really kept away from it until it was in the media and I'd walked into a co-op and I'm curious if it is so I was like looking for new stands. I was looking for it, so that was my own fault. And on the front page was her with the dagger and saying that she'd murdered. And I just froze.

Like, all I knew is that she'd killed someone. That's all I knew. And then I read it. And I just, I broke down, and I had to be taken out of the shop and then I did read it all over it, like what had been said and it was a lot. Had Cheyenne been warned, it wouldn't have made the information any better, but it would have meant that she was prepared for what was on that newspaper that she would have known that there was a risk she'd see it.

Now that information was out there, the fact that she had no knowledge of it prior and it just came and hit her while she was with her friends would have sent her into such a state of turmoil. I found one article and that just led to a deep dark hole of broke my heart because essentially, she is that. But at the same time, I don't want to know where is that. As Cheyenne learned of her mother's crimes in the press, many details remained unreported. And for investigators, crucial facts remained unknown. More than a week after her arrest, Joanne was still unavailable for an interview.

In my line of work, interviews are crucial. There are a lot of questions that I certainly would have had, and I'm sure the detectives would have had for her, but in England, she must be assessed. They cannot speak to her for 10 days. Could the case change as the result of an interview with Joanne? What if she claimed she'd been coerced to kill by Gary? With Joanne's 10-day hospitalization nearing its end,

we'll investigate her's finally get the chance to interview her and find out. She's engaging in conversations with the doctor, quite freely admitting the fact that she'd kill people. This woman is completely lost in her own craziness. Is she going to kick off? Is she going to have a meltdown? Is she going to make a joke about it? You just, I can't predict. British police have built a detailed picture

of Joanne Dennyhe's terrifying crime spree, but they have yet to question Dennyhe or officially charge her for her crimes. Then on April 12, 10 days after her arrest, doctors finally deemed Joanne Dennyhe fit for an interview. She went through some really comprehensive assessments, independent assessments by medical professionals, and was found to be not only fit to be interviewed, but entirely fit to make her own plea. Investigators have been waiting to hear

Denny's explanation of events. Will she claim innocence, or will she confess to the brutal crimes she allegedly committed? A serial killer, in most cases, they're narcissists. They will begin to share with you the ins and outs, and they'll tell you the story of what a straight face. They'll show no emotion.

It's like they're reading a bedtime story to their kid. They are proud of what they've done. Let her tell her story. But when officers finally question Denny, she simply says no comment. On one hand, there was that surprise, I suppose, but then that they suspects do have a right to remain silent. Don't have to say anything, so you have to be ready for that eventuality.

She's doing this intentionally. She's doing it because she is enjoying the little cat and mouse game here that we're playing now with police. Although Denny's silence is unexpected, by now, it doesn't really matter. Having had time to build a solid case, police charged Joanne with two counts of attempted murder and three counts of murder. There was some very, very strong forensic evidence at the link the suspects to the crimes. There was some very comprehensive CCTV footage, so the case was a very strong one.

But a strong case is no guarantee of a conviction. On these types of high profile cases, the stakes are so high. So despite actually running a large number of major inquiries, this one was quite daunting for me, and that's where you have to have a really, really professional team because the slightest difference can mean so much in terms of what somebody could be proven to be guilty of, or not, or maybe a lesser charge. I don't think you ever find a situation where you say you have a watertight case.

When it came to progressing this matter to court, we were fairly confident that we would, by presenting the evidence to a jury, that we would hopefully get a conviction. But you never do know. As the trial approaches, investigators have one principle concern. Will Joanne Dennyhee assert an insanity defense to avoid criminal responsibility? One of the risks throughout this case is obviously that Joanne could have been looking to plead

diminishing responsibility. I was concerned that somebody may take a view that she couldn't necessarily form the intent, the criminal intent to commit these crimes, and I was concerned that the impact that would have on the family and their rights or justice. It was clear that she had some mental health conditions. Did they rise to a level of a diminished capacity or an inability to understand the nature and consequences of her act? Should she be punished in a different way

or did she choose to commit those crimes? On November 18, 2013, Joanne Denny he takes the stand at London's historic Old Bailey. But in her fight against these charges, will Joanne Denny he claim criminal insanity as expected? Ever since Denny his arrest and from her behavior and police custody,

she has been manipulating the process. She doesn't want to be manipulated by the system. She's never been manipulated by anybody. She's the manipulator. So Joe is going into that court. Cock sure, she doesn't give a damn. November 18, 2013. The eyes of the world are on serial killer Joanne Dennehy, as she arrives at court to plead her case.

This is as serious as it gets. You're facing three murder counts. In the old bayley, it doesn't get. Any more serious than that. Joanne Dennyhy is expected to plead not guilty. On the ground, she was mentally incapable of fully understanding her actions. We thought it's just going to be a straight, not guilty plea, and Saturday for trial, away we all go.

And that's what everybody in the courtroom thought apart from Jo. What does Jo do? Jo walks into that call. A co-defender's are in the dock, and she tells them I'm guilty, and she tells the jobster F off. Joanne Denny is guilty plea, sends shark waves through the courtroom. When Joanne Denny pleaded guilty, she had all of her legal team scrambling around. Everybody kind of really shocked that she'd done this because that was not what they were expecting whatsoever.

Her defence team tried to stop reports of that coming out. The judge said, well, I'm afraid the cat's already out of the bag because obviously we'd, as soon as she pleaded guilty, with tweets and things. We'd reported that. The fact that Joanna Dennyhe decided to admit murdering these three men and denying them a lawful burial took the whole of court to by surprise, including her defence barrister, who said that proceedings weren't going as anticipated. But was Dennyhe's plea and acceptance of responsibility? Or was it just another distasteful bit for attention and control?

The fact that she went guilty was just her way of securing her notoriety. By pleading guilty, the scene stops on the terms of Joanne Dennyhe. There will be no trial, there will be on the terms of Joanne Dennyhy. There will be no trial, there will be no bringing out of all of this evidence, which might actually burst her delusional bubble. She knows that everything from here on is not as she has fantasized. And so, on her own terms, she closes the curtains. Although Joanne Dennyhee temporarily succeeded in keeping

details to herself, four months later, Gary Stretch appeared in court. Because Gary Stretch had pleaded not guilty to their parts in the crime, we knew that all of that would come out in a trial. And during Stretch's trial, shocking unknown facts come to light. Following the stabbing death of poor Mr. Chapman,

she was ecstatic with joy. Drenched in blood, she found Gary Stretch and tells him what she's done. She's singing a song to him over the phone. She calls stretch and starts singing the Britney Spears number one hit, oops, I did it again. This woman is completely lost in her own craziness. That's how cold blooded she was. So when you think about Joanne Denny, you realize that she is the master peppetier, getting all of these men to do her bidding,

and that sense of control is part of what drives her. On February 28th, Gary Stretch and Joanne Dennyi were sentenced. Gary Stretch received 19 years for his part in selecting Dennyi's herifred victims and helping her dispose of three bodies. But with three innocent men brutally killed and two others left for dead, what punishment could possibly fit Joanne Denney's heinous crimes?

Well, in the United States, of course, a case like this, you only have two ranges of punishment. You're either going to get the death penalty, or you're going to get a life with no parole. In this particular case, Joanne makes it very easy for the ruling. And the ruling comes from a judge and she pleads guilty

and is sentenced to life with no parole. This is the most severe penalty you can get in Britain. The fact that she'll never see daylight again in the outside world is a huge comfort for the family. And whilst I don't measure success of any investigation on prison time, in this case, for Joanne Denney, it's absolutely the right thing that she won't come out of prison.

Sent to maximum security prison, HMP Bronzefield, Joanne Denney would spend her first five years alone in a cell, 23 hours a day with no visits from family. Then in 2018, her daughter Cheyenne decided to finally pay her a visit. I almost had a near enough meltdown going in because I was so scared, I was shaking, I was sweating, I was crying, and I didn't know who was going to be in that room. Five years after Joanne Dennyhee was sentenced to life for stabbing five men in cold blood, Cheyenne made the difficult decision to go and visit her mother.

Even though I had people telling me that it's a bad idea and that it would only make me worse, my curiosity and need for closure. And Neil Welsk is going to get that, was with answers. So I went and visited her. Cheyam went from being told that her mum was a monster, was the most dangerous woman in Britain, to choosing to go and visit her in prison, which seems like a curious choice. Why would she do that? But actually, I think this desperation for meaning,

this desperation for understanding, for reasons, for answers to why her mum did that, would have absolutely driven her to go and seek those answers. So I walked in. I've not recognized her. She was completely different. The brown hair, gone. Passings, more of them, tattoos, more of them. She had the same frame and the same dress sense, but it wasn't my mum in a sense. And it's taken me a double take to realise who is sat at that table. It became very, very, a lot of that point. All of the anger, all of the hurt, everything just disappeared and all I wanted was my mom.

And I just ran at her, at her, essentially, and just cried for a while. It was tough, but it was nice. But when it came to Joanne's crimes, Cheyenne was looking for answers. Would she get the closure she was hoping for? I asked her, why them? And does it not come into your mind that it's not just a life you're taking, you're taking someone's son, brother, child, you name it, you're taking it.

And the people that have to suffer that for the rest of their life, it's not fair. It's like me taking away your most pride and joy. She said, I don't know that she just wasn't happy and that she just flipped, but she was fully aware of what she was doing. And I think not only did it shock me, but it hurt.

It hurt that she could say that to me. Although I've asked for the truth, but it still hurts. She doesn't feel remorse for what she's done. And I don't think she ever will. After confronting Joanne about her crimes, Cheyenne made the decision to stop all contact. It wasn't my mom that I was sitting across from. It's who she'd go into be, and I didn't like who she'd go into be. I didn't want anything to do with it.

and I didn't like who she'd going to be. I didn't want anything to do with it. Like they say, I love her, never changes her spots. And I think she's part of the point of change. Since Joanne Danny, he's conviction, the shocking news of Britain's notorious female serial killer went global. shocking news of Britain's notorious female serial killer went global. But was it Joanne Denny herself that caught the public's interest? Or was it the senseless nature of the violence she committed?

Why is Joanne Denny such a headloin grabber? What is this all about? Here we have a young girl who was killing people on her own, literally physically killing on her own with a pocket knife, turning this whole world upside down. You'd think how of you committed the crimes that you've committed. The Joans of the world, they are evil people who did evil things to a bunch of victims that

had no idea this was coming at them. And these are the ones that we need to remember and memorialize and don't let what this person did define them as people. All too often, the killer's narrative is the one that dominates. So, for me, I think it is about saying, actually, Joanne Denehey, you are not in control of this narrative. Here is the real story.

And people who are family members of serial killers, you know, have that double challenge, you know, not just establishing who they are, but establishing that distance from the person who's committed these horrendous crimes. We need to enable the survivors of these people to come through and to tell their stories. Back then it was a sense of, I'm not good enough, I'm ashamed to be who I am.

And now I realise I'm my own person. And I can't be ashamed of who I am because of who she is. I'm not her and I never will be. because of who she is. I'm not her and I never will be.